##VIDEO ID:zYwE1dhMGF0## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e everyone us hear [Music] you can nobody else comes we're good9 so okay very good build attendees everybody sorry about the technical issues yeah thank you perfect and you want to take one last look at the list of guests to see if youve got no all right okay three of us we figured out which committees need to call the order so let's start doing that uh only 36 minutes late uh I'd like to call the finance committee to order um I believe see we we do have one uh uh remote participant so I will do a roll call vote um Emily I hope you're prepared to unmute uh Emily s present there we go all right let me see if find everyone here Joe M John suiv here Jeffy Corum Downing here I didn't miss anyone as I went around did I Jo here no you know all right uh Carlo would you like to call the select board to order yeah I'd like to call the select board to order I know some of us are on Zoom some of us are in person so Mark here Karen here Chris here Melissa here and Carlo here thank you and hope you have a good meeting thank you so go find the agenda um which has been updated in the last 38 minutes um despite two states today all right so welcome everyone to our second uh Financial Forum um our First Financial Forum was sort of preparation for for giving guidance on the operating budget um and centered on topics like free cash one is focused on our big projects um the kill and school building project um and we're going to also get an update on the recal project um we do have a couple other uh more mundane finance committee business we have to revote one or more um town meeting warrant articles uh before town meeting um and uh that was not reasonably anticipated I'm afraid but I understand that we can talk we are allowed to talk about tonight and then yes we we'll do our usual talk about future agenda and improvements so with that I think I can hand it over to Carla hi everyone thank you um thank you for your patience I'm Carla Nyro I am the chair of the K School building committee um and we thank you for allowing us to make a presentation tonight next slide Jackie thank you um so these are um these are schematic design Milestones I want to um have you look at the top row that represents weeks it does not represent days just so you know um so this is a little bit of insight into the life of our designer you can see that every single Circle or Square represents a meeting our most exciting um element on here is um msba meeting there was an msba board meeting this morning at 10: they um unanimously approved for Kellum to move from module three which was feasibility study into schematic design which is module four so there are eight modules in total so we were really excited about that we have been working on schematic design even though we haven't got Improv on it because just of how the um msba meetings um fall so we were really excited about that and um right now some of the things that the designer and us are working on is security and we've had meetings on that and we'll continue to and um instructional technology which those meetings are coming up I think this week and um and next week next slide J this is um as many of you have seen multiple times our proposed timeline you can see that we had a an FAS or facilities assessment subcommittee meeting where we did a presentation um Dr meski and I and our designer did a presentation for the msba they wanted to make sure that um our facilities mimics what our education plan or visioning is they were really happy with the presentation that we did um and it really represents how our teachers want to teach and the best way for our students to learn so um we are in the middle of schematic design right now we are going to be going to town meeting in the spring and we're going to be having a Deb exclusion boat in the spring as well um we are still finalizing those numbers um um and we will have more exact dates for that um coming up shortly next slide Jackie and next so we had a um community meeting last week and we have an an on um we had a community meeting last week on um site and Community use and next week we will actually have another community meeting on uh traffic patterns so this is a proposed and everchanging um site plan um at the moment you can see um the first floor of our existing building if you can see the um the the this line here the dotted line it shows our existing building now so obviously the idea is to keep the kids in school build a new building next door and then once we move the the students and staff in we'll demolish the existing building we have a nice um traffic pattern going through there um special um access for Fire Department emergency vehicles if needed this um you'll see the wow center that is um the world of Wonder center it's very unique to kill them we on our wish list and on re Recreation Comm wish list is a u12 soccer field um and you can see the different play areas and the patio Jackie if you um next one please this is so everchanging that um you can see the softball field and the u12 field just last week in our um executive leadership team meeting we were discussing that there is an existing softball field at Kellum and we wanted to maintain it so the designer put it back in we're moving the wow Center um at our community meeting last week there was even discussion on making that field Turf so that was part of the discussion if that's a turf field could we uh make that softball field on top of the um the soccer field and have that as Turf as well and potentially put like a basketball hoop there so it it's our designers are so um flexible and they listen to what we say and they're just it's it's like ever changing so this is where we are right now but keep uh we'll keep you posted next slide please this is an example um the landscape designer was there at the meeting as well and this is an example um of different different options for for play um for the different levels of play and um we had a Butters there which was really in the Neighbors which was really good because we listened to what their concerns were they're concerned about their views they're concerned about traffic they're concerned about um construction sequencing and things like that and um and trees right we we talked about what kind of trees and shrubs will be put on the on the site and um we will be having our Butters meeting with landscapers too just because we always want to be hearing what people's um desires are for the project next slide Jack this is our first floor and our second floor not our third floor and it's a partial third floor so part of this is in the green on the first floor is our rise preschool program we currently have rise at three location at Kum at woodend and at the high school uh the committee has voted to bring rise all to one location um and I'll talk about funding of that um shortly as well um and then we have um this dut shape which I'm going to talk about later on we refer to this area here of different classrooms as like a doughnut shape on the third floor there's there's um there other there's another donut there as well but um over our cafeteria we're not go it's only two floors it's not going up three floors and I will show you another picture to to um to help with that visual as well next slide Jack so this is a um our first ever 3D view of what the site perspective would look like and and with the houses around it the next slide Jackie so this is um we did have um so part of as I mentioned part of the um this part of the building here is three floors this part is three floors and under the cafeteria is only two floors there's a lot of access for light coming into the building we are pleased really pleased with our designer and how they're able to make the look make the building not look as as normous as it is I I will be the first to admit that out of the gate in my head I said we are not doing a three-story school and other people have said that and this is in the committee's um belief in my belief this is the best option that we have the the nice thing about this is the design ERS know how to use these warm durable materials to um make your eye go to different places so it doesn't look like like a huge school we went to visit multiple schools um we went to two in Watertown that were three stories and we looked at them we said wow it doesn't feel like it's a huge mass of school so um we felt really good about that and they also jog the building in so your eye kind of goes to different areas and that along with um fencing along with um trees and and Landscape it it's going to be beautiful but this isn't exactly how it's going to look this was our first rendering of it next slide please and then funding so the msba requires that we look at different options they require that we look at just a code upgrade so keeping the existing building but um just upgrading it and that comes with a cost option the next option is to do a renovation addition so we take the existing building we upgrade it we do a renovation um there's a cost associated with that there were two other options um option B1 is what the committee chose that was our doughnut option how we had the um classrooms kind of in a donut shape um option the other new building option um it the new construction option was a wing some of us called it the kler it was more of a elongated um classroom space but and truly it wasn't any longer than our donut option but um everybody felt comfortable with that that cost 135 million is an estimated cost is not a final cost because we are are we're not through design yet next slide please okay so we did um we had a huge submission to the msba the PSR the preferred schematic report um the msba told us what they would participate in and what they wouldn't participate at this moment so um some of the things that they will participate in is um for grades 1 through five 20 classrooms um specialist offices ml which are M our multilanguage learner classroom space the designers were really excited that um msba is participating in adaptive PE because that was a new one for them so we were really excited about that and we were really excited about the rise preschool classrooms being included so 12 rise preschool classrooms are included that was something that um we did not anticipate at the beginning because it was part of our statement of intent the msba felt like it was part of our program so um that was like a huge win for us um as I had mentioned before this project isn't just about kilum it's about the whole town so by freeing up the space from rise from woodend we'll free up classroom space there it will free up space at the high school which we're really excited about because of our Innovation Pathways um we have a we have um a lot of really exciting things in the past four years going on at our high school um I just tell you we got a $100,000 grant for a virtual autopsy cable now these are at like Harvard University these aren't in elementary schools or in in high so um that's something that's new to us this year and just to have all of these different Pathways for our students is such an unbelievable opportunity so this additional space or this extra space carved out really helps and that will benefit the entire town um what they are not going to participate in so we decided um to increase our gym space by um 1,150 square fet that is to make our um our basketball space um basketball court larger so we have additional places for um for students to play larger staff room um we have a larger conference room the non-classroom rise space is not included so we have some larger spaces and PT and OT um and a a teachers room for Rise that is not included and that's a almost 6,000 square feet and then we have a um an office with storage for extended day that's not included as well next thank you um and then what they're partially funded so this is an interesting one we we have something that um that we call Flex areas we have classroom space and one thing that um when we went to visit these new schools and almost a different way in education is to have we what we call front porches where um if you if you take this example this would be the classroom but then there's a front porch where we've taken room from the classroom extended it into the hallway so teachers can actually have classroom space out there that is visible to them that um there can be small group things going on with other adults some of that space um is not funded by the msba because it goes into hallways so we have nice larger hallways but some of that is um covered and some of it is not which is kind of expected from us um I will tell you that we were and I forgot to tell you in the other one we were really successful in and I forgot to tell you about the space that we did um they did pay for they the msba paid for a um a science and engineering um space for us which they weren't going to we kind of push back with them a little bit so they are paying for that space or participating in that space um this is something that we have also kind pushed back gently pushed back on them and say hey this is really important to us this space um so we wrote something up so we're waiting to hear back from them as well so um we we really feel good about like how they've been listening to us and and just really understanding what what we what our intentions are and I and I have to say that this um this program with msba is just unbelievable you never think you're going to be able to get to a certain point and everything kind of falls into place and you get next slide Jack upcoming or next steps um is we will be making a huge decision at our November 20th um building committee meeting on the hbac system which a ton of time and energy has gone into that with our working groups and with our committee um we'll be getting um more specific funding for that more specific um outline of of costs for that too which will help us make our decision um we will have a a design update on the SE on December 2nd and like I said um November 4th we're doing a traffic community meeting right across the hall hopefully um I'm going to throw at another um a not pretend number but msba reimbursement they are currently reimbursing a say let's just say it's about 51% of eligible space that's the percentage they're going to to pay up to um participate in so that comes out to about $38.5 million of funding that comes from the msba I will say that when we vote on it um if the vote does not pass we are considered out of the program we do have the opportunity to um approach them again and say we want to have another vote like in a short amount of time we cannot change the design once the design is set that is the design um we have one more shot if that fails we are literally kicked out of the program so we will have a school that needs attention and it will be 100% on our dime so those are the facts any questions Maran is first go ahead um I had a few questions in one this is probably something obvious and I didn't see it in your 3D representation I noticed the the rise playground was a jent to ail street but I didn't see a fence so what kind of fencing are they planning on having there will be a halfy fence be just like it'll be a hefty fence and um and and will be plantings and stuff this is that this building actually we moved it further off um yeah this is definitely an I me I knew there was something I just didn't know what kind and um just jumping to the decision coming up on the hva BAC system and I saw this 135 million estimate does that estimate assume like a mid-range in the HVAC costs or the most expensive option like which HBA system was hbac was built into that 135 estimate great question in that current estimate we have full geothermal Wells because we we every time we've given a number we've always kept it the same so we use the the full geothermal Wells um we the con the um OPM and the designer have been working on these past few months of the site sequencing and how how many geothermal Wells are needed and can it be done because our site is really small um we've been talking about early packages we've been talking about bringing the contractor on early and all of this is going to magically come together at our November 20th meeting what they will do is um they presented us with five different options so when they haven't presented us the true cost yet so they'll present the cost costs my guess is that one of those with the cost is just everybody's going to be making the same is full geothermal Wells the what they told you was the most expensive option so that is the one that we chose to um that is the option we chose to base our numbers on we have two options that are hybrid so they're half geothermal Wells and then half other systems for the ventilation portion of it um the geothermal will be for the heating and the air conditioning and then they have others um other packages with boilers and and just and just the last questions were an observation and with the superintendent here maybe he can answer I was quickly trying to get sizes so this is going to be bigger than either middle school because I looked up and it said Parker Middle School is about 105,000 it's is 122 and cooles seem smaller than Parker so it's bigger than a middle school it's a pretty big school and if if because all of our schools are undersized not bars and reading everywhere they're under sized the this is the size that um the existing kilum is about half the size that it should be okay thank you go ahead the design pricing um the square foot is 100 about 123,000 does that include the 8,000 square fet that msba is not paying for the total project cost that's for the whole the whole so so project so on on your presentation all of the the PSR updates that msba will not participate in funding yeah is that included in that square footage yes so it is included in there yes and the price includes that in because it's about $7 million just for the what they're not paying for so that's part of the 135 so it's basically decided that we will build that even they're not paying for right those are those are the option that the committee has said these are the things that are priority that we should build um and um the msba about 51% of eligible costs they'll paid for but not for but not but not for those we are pushing back on one of them but um we're actually really happy that they gave us some of things we expect is that BSA reimbursement is it based on square footage of the different types of classrooms JS whatever is it cost of building different types of space they um there is an unbelievable spread sheet and it tells you eligible square footage per kid per size um they will tell you how big of a classroom you can have they will tell you the minimum amount of classroom that you can have but they will give you the the um their their what they will pay for it is it an enormous spreadsheet that of um of square footage costs it's a it's a square footage cost so the spread is how much they think it cost to build a square foot of a gym versus a classroom versus a cafeteria or is it just it's we will reimburse four classrooms and we'll take the square footage of the classrooms divided by the whole building and say that's the cost clut it it is the square footage that they will allow right and that they will participate in they're not they don't the market comes up with the square footage cost okay right so they right so you right the pricing is going up we were really fortunate about eight or nine months ago that the msba increased their amount of reimbursement by like $55 which was huge part of that was site cost and part of that was construction cost with that was huge um we are hoping that they do it again um but usually after the the um the vote is taken um actually recently they actually almost um even even if they were in construction they they gave some money to some some other um projects so um but they they will determine what they think is the appropriate square footage per classrooms per gym per um conference rooms and they will list all of that out and then if you want if you want to tweak it like we did with our classroom space we said okay for a thousand I can't remember what it was up there right a thousand you know square foot for a classroom space we said let's do 900 and we're going to put a hundred of it in the front you know in the front porch you know so they'll pay for it but it just became a different space for us if that makes sense the gy the gym is 6,000 square feet is what they would you know is is eligible so that's why we had decided that that number is the 12200 that we going over because that's what we had decided we would need to be able to meet the needs of what you know wreck and things would need too they gave us that number 6,000 square feet he true sorry are those reimbursement rates locked in now can that still change they say it's 51% of the whatever they're going to participate in could that be different three months from now or% it it um we will have our definite numbers right before we go up for bit once we get the M we'll get those numbers and then we will present them to the voters and that it's not going to be exact but it it will be the numbers that we'll have at that point so it's it's numbers and then town meeting and then vot today it it's going to be like fast but be Before Time meting before it goes to bit it'll this will become Before Time meting before it goes out to bit yes okay yeah sorry if I wasn't there uh so on the things that msba will participate it says classrooms grades one to five in prek they don't see K is there why is kindergarten not in the list is that the classrooms oh it should be good catch um you said let's see 51% reimbursement would be about $40 million so that's of reimbursable so they're going to reimburse us on 80 million at 51% gives us about $41 million so there's $55 million is the stuff that we want in the school that msba is not participating in is that can I do my math right what are you using as a square footage for our construction policy if if the total cost is 135 million right and we have $80 million is reimburse is what NBS SBA is going to participate in and 51% of that is 40 sorry 40 million that msba is reimbursing 40 million that they're not because that's the other 49% and then 55 million to get us up to the total cost of 135 mil um my understanding was that uh if you the more your school is the better the reimbursement rate so and that's a a top level that changes that 51% right we we we will get all the green reimbursements with what we're going to choose okay and and it will most likely be an all my yeah my understanding was that that changed that 51% based on how green you was how much reimbursement yeah and but we we will hit there so so like even though the cost of the electric of the geothermal might be a little more it's just the geothermal and that gives us a better reimbursement on 80 million on a percentage of 80 million which is a lot of money you know a percent or two of $80 million is a lot of M so for geothermal there's a lot of um there are a lot of rebates that will come back right so we'll know that going in what they will um it can't be factored into what our debt exclusion is we have to wait until after and they say okay you did this right then they'll issue it and and at that point that money is typically used for other things but we can't go in um pretending we have that money when we go to borrow we have to borrow for the full amount so the amount of the debt exclus yes for the full amount there there are Hefty re um there's Hefty money coming back from those on well okay they're the most efficient right they're the most efficient they're the most expensive but there's a lot of um reimbursement coming back there thank you just quickly the total project cost does that include like what 10 15% overage or that's everything in there but that's just a estimate too it's but you're included okay and then I'm sure people ask like if you just did option A right is that basically throwaway like in five 10 years yeah we can't because it's not even big enough so but that they make you go through this process to get there and you can see that the the second option of the you know bringing it up to code and the addition is more expensive okay great thanks other uh oh I see hand up on Zoom Emily please go ahead thanks Joe can you guys hear me okay yes um so Joe M just asked my first question about contingency but my second question is they the slide said this is for new construction I am assuming the cost for demolition is also included in the yes I want to double check because I feel like we're probably G to end up with some booby with you know lead Orest or something terrible so the ini the initial testing they did on the site was good so good yeah awesome Emily is justifiably scared of the kilum building itself the we're gonna sell pieces of it off Emily it's it's gonna be ready just in time for my kid to go to sixth grade it's perfect I love it thanks everyone I'm looking for other questions here other people have asked I did have some questions but other people asked I was curious by kindergarten so I'm happy to hear that it sounds like all the all the HB options are considering are would get us the full credit for foren building that's a relief so they they they force you to if you don't have all electric to be Electric you know so they their incentives and everything are are driving it and it's it's it's uh it's cost effective these systems are cost effective it's just they're different from what we used to oh yeah this question came up at the last Town School building meeting um so of the designs being proposed for uh geothermal to qualify for inflation reduction act Hefty reimbursements for geothermal top of what car's been talking about you need to be at 50% of your heating cooling capacity but the designers assured us that the options they're presenting will qualify us for that so they come with a warranty how many years many not enough probably five 20 so for the Deb exclusion of the none of the rebates or or any of the for so will that be known though at the time of the vote is it is that known after and will that part B will that reduce the debt immediately when those refunds come in when those come in then they'll come into the town and then the town will decide is that going towards debt is that going towards we know that at the time right because we want we want to know what we're getting down the road we want to make sure we're getting it down the road we just have to be compliant with it thank you very much thank you everyone um on our agenda um about uh the um update on the recal projects that Mark are you presenting why not Jackie has slides from Mark awesome so um thanks folks so if anyone here who doesn't knowe me I'm Mark doxer a member of the select board I was a member of the reading um Center for active living committee uh I'm now a member of the permanent building committee that's related to this project and um given the time I thought it would be good to put together just an update for everybody so this is more of just kind of just the facts in terms of what's going on so recal is the reading Center for active living it's very focused on the 60 plus community in town go to the next slide please Jackie so this is kind of a summary of everything that's going on right now so just update we transitioned we had the reading Center for active living committee that reported to the select board and their mission was to go out and understand the needs of the community see how we could best serve that explore different communities and best practices and then also take a look at the sites that might be available inside the town of ring so we we did all of those activities we put them together we came back to the select board with a recommendation um I'll tell you a little bit more about that but also we had a a timed life our mission was to do that then deliver it and then transition to the permanent building committee the PBC and the way the permanent building committee Works in town is this is a a great group of folks and Pat Tomkins the chair is in the back corner there um who are um professionals that understand all different things about construction about building so that they can manage projects for the town they're very involved in the school project obviously they're very involved in the reading Center for AC living and the the structure that the town put in place is that this group this permanent building committee would take over in terms of taking the project forward so what's happened is um it's now in the hands of permanent building committee I wrote plus two because when a project is done that has a specific sponsor in a specific Community it works for members are added for the town Charter so the two members that were added were Nancy zlac who is the the chair of the Council on Aging she's in the corner back there um and myself um representing the select board so we're the additional members related to that the next activity that we needed to do is that we needed to have an owner's project manager to manage a project of this magnitude we did not have that in place back in August which basically is when recal came in with those recommendations so we needed to go through that step specifically and that involved going out soliciting bids and a lot of activities that has culminated with the hiring in October of of this year so just just this month this is still October right so we've just done that is the contract signed check it is okay so now it's a done deal fabulous um there is an environmental study that is taking place actually took place last week some looking at the soil at Simon's way so I should take one step back the recommendation of the recal committee the recommendation of the Council on Aging has been that the Simons way site is the right location to do this one of the questions that came up about that site is that it's land that we purchased from a construction firm um and what's going on with the soil are there any issues and whatever this town is going to do with that site we need to know what's going on so that we can better deal with it we're certainly not going to put any residents in in arm's way so um we've been able to now do a study it was just conducted last week and we hope to have some information back for next week to talk further about it the next step in all of our our activities is to finalize the site selection so we looked at a lot of different sites and reading in fact uh more recently a couple of other potential sites came up and into the picture we wanted to make sure sure that we've looked at every possibility that that can happen the wonderful thing about reading is is our community the unfortunate part about reading is there's not a lot of open space that we can use for for activities to some extent Simon's way is the last space that's out there so what's going to happen is we need to finalize the site selection move forward to do schematic drawings and included with the schematic drawings will be uh clearer cost estimates in terms of what's going on ENT of this is to bring it forward to the community pretty much on the same timel that the school is also and the intent in that is to say that the community deserves to understand what projects are on the horizon and what we're thinking about and whether it's the exact same timing or it's not the exact same timing the community needs to be aware of the things that we're looking at and where the priorities are for the community so that's the reason for for this April 2025 next slide please Jackie so a little bit more detail so recal looked at the needs of the 60 plus Community it's more than 28% of the population of this town right now and forecast to be growing to 30% potentially even more is the largest single group in town um we identified research the different opportunities we benchmarked a series of other communities we visited other uh either senior centers or centers for active living and I probably should highlight to everybody that the word choice here is very intentional and very careful because we're trying to serve the 60 plus Community we're not trying to exclude anybody we're trying to be very inclusive in all the activities that we're doing and to make sure that we're really serving this big chunk of the community so the Centerra of living seems to be the term that is used now that seems to represent things better it doesn't carry any negative stigma and I think it offers opportunity beyond what we're talking about um we also highlighted best practices recommended Simon way as I mentioned and with the sunset in August it transitioned to the PBC next slide please the PBC accepted the recal project um and then oversaw the hiring of the project manager which is exactly what they're supposed to be doing um and then our next the pbc's next activity is to review the site selection materials and then make a recommendation next slide please so the OPM Turner and Townson hey are just hey did I do it right I did it right excellent so the PBC recommended that we we work with these folks we're able to come to an agreement sign a contract they now engaged in the site review and we have a a meeting the PBC has a meeting with the permanent building committee next Monday the 4th to dig in on the site review activities and Chuck Adam and Chuck is a singular kind of guy no s on the end it's not Adams it's Adam Chuck um who I will will ask just maybe in one second to to say hello and just introduce yourself to the group um they have put together already they've dug in very deep and are putting together their assessment of all the work that's already been done we'll be bringing that forward to the permanent building committee so that the permanent building committee can have their discussion see what questions comments that they have and take it Forward chck can I ask you to maybe just say hello to the group tell us a little bit about your back sure thanks for H having us like Mark said I'm check it out I'm vice president regional manager we turn our town hearing um we're in OPM like the group that's working with your school um we have been doing OPM work since the 50s before any body else was doing it by coincidence but we um like to get our hands into various projects and this is an exciting one for us when I started to chase this project more than two years ago you were all looking at the Walgreens store and there was a gentleman in my office that Jane knows who F family grew up here and recently moved from here to Florida the end mingers and I really wanted to chase it he really wanted to chase it because he grew up here well then he moved on me so he's living in Florida and we're still chasing it because we really wanted to be part of the project so thanks for having us as Mark said we've done an awful lot of work we've reviewed all the work that has been done by um The Architects the work is very well done and I'll say that right up front we're going to review what the PE PBC on Monday we've already come up with some draft valuation forms for them to review that are pretty much based on what was done by the study I mean the study was was beautifully done and I can't say say that enough we'll review it with them we might change some criteria based on what P ppbc members feel and we'll go through and score it again but um as Mark said we also walk through the couple of other sites and other things we identified those in the report but um I think it's all going to work out real fine our hope is we're working with Pat is to get through the building committee sometime in November and wrap it all up so if they feel good good about it make the right recommendation and then we're ready to go we're meeting with the architect already we've met a number of times with them um they're anxious to get started they really want to get moving and I really want them to get moving so we're looking at that schedule it's tight but we're gonna make make it so thanks for having us we're glad glad to to be here and help out thanks next slide please Jackie so the environmental St get Simon's way so they did soil testing literally last week um we should have some preliminary results next week at the meeting so preliminary but hopefully we'll we'll see what's there this would give us some guidance on the site conditions that are there and if there are any considerations we need to think about whether anything needs to be mitigated and maybe different ways of doing that we'll we'll see what we find um this obviously has potential impact on the site for the center for active living possibly even for pickleball courts um depending on what's found and what we need to do there next slide please so site selection the PBC is having our working session on November 4th as Chuck just mentioned the goal is to finalize the recommendation in November and then bring it to the select board next slide please we have been working with um Architects called BH plusa that's who Chuck was referring to they did all the work and all the drawings that we shared actually back at town meeting last year that last year I think it was last year or was it April could be April sorry time is merging together um we were able to hire them as an architect based on arpa funds that were allocated by the select board and this goes back to 2023 maybe even 2022 but I think 2020 2022 2023 yeah we signed their contract in 2022 all last year yeah okay um so we want to move to the next phase upon site selection and approval by the select board so that's exactly what Chuck was talking about the design should take 60 to 90 days to complete it is a schematic design and 60-ish percent anyway it's it's an an advanced stage in the design which would allow for more accurate cost estimates and quite a bit of of input into what's going on and again a lot of the work was was done um working now with um with Harry with the OPM on community sessions to take place in early 2025 and present to the community um ideally in February based on that 60 to 90day timeline which would allow us to get a funding article targeted for April 25 town meeting next slide please any questions go ahead Andre so what will happen with senior sen then thank you for bringing that up so that meant to to bring that up so um at the next select board meeting there is an agenda item to start a discussion about what some of the possible options could be for the current Pleasant Street Center um we have been the town has been approached um by a developer unsolicited um we had some ideas in terms of um using that site to add to it and to to create some I think residential activity again unsolicited Town didn't didn't do anything about that um we know that there are some Town groups that would love to utilize that space we have some Town groups that are currently displaced that could use that space really really nicely other community activities um it may be that there's value in either leasing the space or possibly even you know doing uh other activities even a sale so um I think your question is spot on we need to explore what alternatives we have it would become a a town asset to be used for other activities and it maybe that the way to do that is we may want to have a committee or something that looks into that but certainly lots of input from the community on different ideas as to what we could do with hi so I preface my comments by I absolutely support the idea of a senior center I'm rapidly approaching the age group to um be be part of it but um as I reflect back on what we just saw for killum and the process there they had different size projects with different costs and different options like oh are we going to have the rise prechool in or out um and what I remember from the bhna is you know three design ideas on three different sites that were all I think around 26,000 Square ft and I didn't see different op options to meet the needs of our seniors because when I look at what some of our peers are doing like Wilmington is just about ready to complete a senior center they're a similar population to us their senior center which I think is going to open in January as 18,000 Square fet North Andover which has about 5,000 more people than us they completed a senior center I think in 2021 what I'm reading of 13,000 Square 13.5 Square spit out 13.5 th000 square feet and and over added onto theirs um they're again a little more population than us for 16,000 square feet so we're building a consider we're proposing talking about a considerably bigger one even though we don't really have any greater number of seniors than Wilmington Andover and North Andover I really want to see something get built and not have the community rejected is there a thought of trying to at least come up with an option that is more in line with what some of the peers are so that you get something versus nothing because I just get concerned about okay there's a you know whatever the debt exclusion is 135 million for that and then they're talking 27 to 30 million for a senior center will the community go for it all if we had at least our OPM say what if we built something more on the scale of of an Andover or Wilmington I mean I'm sorry North Andover because that's new Andover was adding on and I know that's not an option because I'd rather have something than nothing so I don't know what you guys have talked about so I think we've talked about a few things one is first of all in terms of thinking about projects um this is an and situation not an or situation in other words these are in my opinion the two highest priorities this community faces is dealing with a new kilum school and and having a new center for active look I don't mean it as an or I just mean there's a limited I understand money I understand um one of the differences um that may be part of what you're thinking about in square footage is the notion of having a gym that would have access for the entire community so the benefit of doing it there number one in that location is number one for the 60 plus population is we're now talking about pickle ball and other things to have a gym to have a walking Track all as part of that we surveyed a number of different communities who didn't include gyms and we asked them if you had a second chance what would you do differently and they said we put in a gym but you guys surveyed residents here who said that they didn't want to pay more than $1 to $200 in debt exclusion for senior center so it's it's like they want you know Alexis at a Kia budget how are you going to make it work so a lot of the feedback we got was that the notion of more of a community center would make it much more appealing and that the opportunity to do that would be with this gym as part of the facility and in the drawings a lot of it is set up so that there would be much as this area of the library has separate and closed up entrances that are possible it would be possible in that building as well so my last question is it's not possible to phase something in like that later like get the Senior Center built then possibly add a gy in another phase to the same Simon Way property so I think certainly you could consider phasing things on any project yeah the only issue is that two issues one is the the general accomplishment of of phasing it is to move into higher costs when you do it the next time so I'm not sure that there's much savings that comes from that um and the second is what's the real need that we're trying to address and I think that's what the focus of all the work that recal did all the work that the architect has done so far what's the real need for the community so to have a facility that's serving the 60 plus population without gym without a walking Track certainly would be much better than what we have today but not really serving the community for the needs that are there but it would serve the seniors though who need their own space and their own gather I mean Wilmington's got a fitness room and other things they don't have a gym but and that's the question I think that the survey results came back and a lot of the discussion was more Community oriented in terms of what they were looking for and the survey that we did so as as one who does surveys when people don't necessarily understand the cost of things and you ask them to throw out a number the numbers come back very low and I understand and we want to spend as little as we can be as cost effective as we can not even a question the other thing that the COA members have been spending a lot of time working on me about is that this the community of 60 plus here in Reading is growing it's growing faster than State averages it's growing faster than all sorts of other things it will be 30% another year or two of the community so to kind of do a lesser solution while it is growing so quickly seems pretty shortsighted to me you know are there options to look at I'm sure that there are I I would just be cautious of the dollar today being held back so we can spend $2 tomorrow for the same thing just second that the've seor population is expected to double in the next 25 years so if we have 7,000 somewhat now which talk about 14,000 by 2015 um and we have to think to the Future the current senior centers were perhaps not builts with those ideas in mind the senior population is growing and the children population is declining so we have to balance both of those I think and the senior population 60 plus is important to recognize it's not just the 80 to 100 it the gym is very important to the 60 plus the 70 early mid 70s it's one of the ways they stay healthy socialize healthy exercise and I think one of the interesting things because of Simon's way because of configuration there um the opportunity to have sports courts pickle ball courts in particular right next to that facility will serve that population really really well they have a gym means indoor pickle ball as well it means all sorts of other activities that can take place I I'm sure I'm being quoted as saying I'd love to see it available 247 it's a bit of an exaggeration but that's a facility that can be used having it carved off and locked off makes it another huge asset for the community so to me I think that's the right approach are there others absolutely so Mark have you explored any uh funding options there you know grants or a marks federal or state has that been pursued at all so we talked to our delegation trying to find a way to to phrase this in a way that could get funded and we haven't found it yet um it is on the radar of all of the Reps and senators of talking about it trying to figure it out um have not talked to the federal folks about it yet but that has to be there and I think any Grant opportunity has to be part of whatever activity we do here figuring out what what can we do other opportunities um we did talk to so Chris and I visited Rand thank you um AARP does a lot of of activities that I don't know that we're fully aware of in terms of funding and other activities all this to say we need to look at every single possible thing um go ahead sorry just to follow up on that um I think looking at the grants now now that we're getting um we have the OPM we're getting closer to the scematic design it's going to be a little bit easier to look for those grants now that we can specify you know the site what the building is so up until this point um we were more we're starting to get more focused which will allow us to look for those grants and other funding options now that we can specify um you know what it is the site the building and what we're looking for so moving forward we should be able to look for that funding now that we're focused more and we have started the friends of senior 60 plus to help did you introduce can join introduce yourself from the group no we're gonna put on you can you introduce yourself to us oh stand up Joanne sorry Joan wridge the president of the friends of breing senior 60 plus and we are vigorously trying to fund raise um and everybody on the around the table here is welcome to donate yeah we have a website in development a Facebook page in development and we're having difficulties with our technical capabilities at age 80 we are not the best at I Tech but we are very hopeful that we can do some really aggressive fundraising and advocacy for the seniors in town because I think it is past time to do some advocacy for the seniors in town and they deserve to be seen heard and recognized and the people around this table here are the ones that are actually going to be benefiting from what we do with the new senior center it's not going to be me it's gonna be [Music] you hello and Marie bour also with this ground um one of the things that struck me on that great presentation that you did that recap was talking about the amount of the amount of square footage and all this how much square footage do we have usable space for right now we we have less than 5,000 square yeah like 2600 square that is the usable space there is not a private there is not a private office there is not there's no privacy so if you're going to talk to the vet or the shine councel or anybody else there's no place private about 2600 square feet of usable space two rooms and the big room and computers St right and then there's the jail cell never stop by stop by and see the jail cell yes um uh n zlac chair of the Council on Aging and um we've been working with reel for the last two years on this project and reel has been um very collaborative on this and uh we appreciate how far it's gotten um I encourage anybody to go to the Pleasant Street Center and visit it it is not big enough there are some accessibility issues um we hoped the odor was fixed but there was a terrible odor um in that building so that building is going to require some infrastructure uh repairs if we have to continue to use that so just you know also the Council on Aging does have available trust funds so we we we do have um uh funds that we use to support programming um for the 60 plus crowd as well as um kinds of improvements that might be needed Marilyn Chaple have been on the council in Aging for 10 years um but we talk about the 30% well you know soon will be 30% of the population that doesn't do much in my brain U what makes it clear to me is if we continue to grow it not that there's any reason not to but we had 30% of this 20% of that it's not earth shattering but what I find Earth shattering is when I hear that if we continue our the 60 plus group continues to grow at the rate it has been for about the last five years within five years one out of every three of us will be six tier older in the entire town that's including the children so think about it it's like every third person will be a beneficiary of what we're the infrastructure we're trying to prepare for so just fin question is I definitely agree with the need and like build it and it'll come I definitely think it it's true my only my only concern is like what H brought is about the existing Pleasant Street because I I think before April town meeting like you know having a plan if possible for what's going to happen there I'm sure we could find out a way to use that space But you know I was in it for the first time in my life a year ago and I I mean it needs maintenance I just think like it's going to cost the town a lot to maintain that and I'm sure we we can find groups that need that space but with what we're being proposed now with K Kum and you know what this could turn into yeah I don't know I just with hates just hold the building for you know for what it could be used for right I don't I don't think are the costs for this should include some projected maintenance cost with Pleasant Street yeah and and maybe the flip side which is projected either rental income or what prioritize it with the ability maybe too to you know rent space back to particular groups if they really think they need it so completely agree I think I think we need to have some idea I don't think we can say here it is this is what we're going to do but I think it would be great to have the community come in and say here are some ideas maybe we we do encourage input from folks we are we did get that one unsolicited group that came in with a whole plan for I think keeping the building as it was and adding to it um you know with some residential activity so I think there are a lot of possibilities and it's a town asset that wouldn't be being used it needs to be one more road trip um by all means go visit the Pleasant Street Center if you haven't seen it yet um but also really encourage you to take a trip up to North andova or even just drive by the building that's being built in Wilmington just to get a visual of what similar size even smaller sized towns are filled with reasonable people are doing for the 60 plus population and I know North Ender we've talked to them many times they're really supportive what we're trying to do if you go in and say I'm from Reading n just look around they'll be happy to have you see it and it's just night and day difference and you see rooms filled with people with lots of varied interest it's not a cookie cutter you know only the bingo game is in here kind of place at all you see really different interests and different kind of socialization and different opportunities for people to interact in different ways and it's really pretty building and I trust that when they open the doors in Wilmington it will be too if you drive by it's like wow so but but I I I pointed it out and it's like 8,000 square feet smaller than what we're proposing that's just why I said those look I've looked at the layout and all their plans it's a lot it's would still be three times what you have now that's why I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good I want you to we need something no that that is true but if you talk to the director she will say they should have built bigger and they should have a gym so you know there's already space issues so you got to take everything with a but again I I caution us for any project that we're doing this town has had very good foresight in thinking about things not taking the cheapest route taking the right route and I think we got to stand up and do that with the projects that we're talking about Mark is there any consideration for how members of the 60 plus Community who don't drive are going to get to the new Senior Center so once we have a site selected that's going to help a lot but um one of the the uh one of the things the select board asked recal to do is to look into Transportation uh kinds of things and we found that um depending on the community depending on how much activity is there are different approaches es to it there is some ARP activity Salem now has the Salem Skipper which is going on which is rides around town we have two vehicles currently um we have one one driver but we have two vehicles um so that is a big an important piece of it so two aspects one is to make sure that sufficient parking because right now that is an issue that we're dealing with so Simon Way can certainly handle that part of the issue and the second is transportation for people who don't drive absolutely you know there's there's a bigger thing going on here also when you realize that 30% of the community is going to be aged 60 plus right now the way that funds are budgeted inside the town and on an operating basis um aren't reflective of that right and there are are the needs that right now arpa has done a great job of supplementing arpa is ending right we're going to spent it all then what so there are additional needs that we need to be talking about to support 30% of the community and transportation I bet as well this might be more of a select board question but if we're talking about expanding the number of people coming to kill him every day plus the senior center going on kind of everything on there a lot more traffic on hav Street which is right now kind of a Dragway with limited sidewalks I think one of the Architects for killing project said one of the me that that stre is terrifying them to do with there any efforts from the select board to traffic coming better infrastructure on that to make that Road Less terrifying for all all the drivers that we're going to have yeah so I I can't speak for the whole board but the whole board is here and hearing what you're saying um one of the things that does have to happen however is um coordination between projects and thinking about how that might impact the area I think that's something there and then as the I'll speak just really as an individual board member we're the road Commissioners so that does fall under us in terms of talking about that absolutely I don't see any hands raised on Zoom I'm gonna say thank you Mark for the presentation thank you everyone discussion want to leave this point go yes so [Music] next we're getting our reest for okay is it so we have a motion motion to adjourn the select board okay a second so we're not ready but I just want to make sure they may follow up know it's seconded done okay good night yes yes Mark yes car yes Chris goodby people we will proceed with our agenda so yes uh we have been asked to revote on two town meeting articles uh oh okay all right we that's okay well we've been asked to ree on two all right so um a lot background noise okay all right trou we got it all right switching to um okay yes I don't see all right motion under Artic so yes [Music] do it's supposed to be article four and five but five doesn't need to happen but I'll explain so um I think it may be R see so let me Sharon talk about what we do and don't need to vote on so we're just amending article four because um just yesterday we realized that um the fire truck that we had gotten I think we it was November of 2023 we actually had voted $130,000 from the Parker roof to go in for the fire truck and yesterday we realized that nobody inced that money and it closed to free cash and free cash got certified yesterday and so the truck is almost ready to be delivered and now we don't have the 130,000 that we're supposed to have because that happens automatically we just Clos if you didn't encumber in front of a f goes away um so what I'm looking to do is for c99 increase that number by 130,000 and then on the bottom line for free cash will go up 130,000 because that's where it went well the money be there in time to take delivery of the truck or do you because we don't think we have any thomes or we don't have enough in come Reserve it' have to wait for Tammy to e away so is the truck coming the truck is in L it's not ready for delivery yet there's a number of things have has to happen uh it has to be lettered radios have to be installed in it and some equipment to REM mount it so we're we're a few weeks out someone someone told me it it hit a deer on its way here did it really oh well that's that gives us some delay though I was going to say it gives us time to get our insurance will right it was so just to get the full story um the manufacturer SE grave and they drive it to us so we had not taken possession resp it was a Seagrave employee that was driving in Pennsylvania and hit a deer and does minor damage to the front uh to the bumper which will be replaced and um the siren was was dented and that'll be replaced and there was some chip of paint to the front for Remer that be does this sort of thing affect the white span okay they don't have like fira like Carfax wither [Music] went off to the other side of the might have made it so all right so is there any are there any questions about this how much was free cash certified that so Cas was certified a little lower than I expected they held about $1.4 million of deficits I mean some of my their numbers Vari from mine but that means that next year those those Monies will come back to some free cash so we had an MVP Grant where we had spent over a million dollars but some of it was AP and usually they just take your deficit to cash but they actually took the AP so I had like a $700,000 deficit that I deducted they deducted like almost $1.1 million so it the numbers were a little bit different because they were taking a little bit of a different approach to how they did it um a more conservative approach obviously um and so the number came down um by about a million dollars say 100,000 it was um but it was all being it's being held just by you know them just holding deficits that they treat it as if these different grants have borrowed the money from the general fund and so they want to be conservative and say what if you never get that L yeah and and so um yeah so it was it was 19293 or something like that that's a a i I understand the number was sent to the select board and and Taran actually emailed it to me she correctly guessed that I would be interested to see it yeah 19.23 million yeah but but knowing that next year that will just come back to us as soon as you get the grant funds they'll release it and the MVP project I think is done so we should be seeing those funds coming in soon trying to break records regeneration again but here we go all right well next year we could probably use it yeah so the only article I need you to vote on tonight is article four because Article 5 we pass due invoice um after I put it in the packet um I realized that there was a PO out there for it which means that the money was being held from that fiscal year and is available to pay and so you don't need to do this particular one when it was brought to me they said I don't think we have it so when I went searching I didn't see that it was there and so you no longer need to vote Article Five Just article four so it says the due date on the invoice was September 4th of 2023 I'm just surprised nobody reached out to say hey we don't have our money like it's a long time little money for them I don't normally see you know last few years we have had any prior year bills so I was very surprised to see it um I don't know if there was a reason why we held it or if it got lost in the shuffle and nobody reached out to us to say hey this is best due but this is very overdue I would have been embarass they have to bring this to tell me or was there was there progress payments made is that why balance I don't know I think this had something to do with um that Regional Housing didn't Jane say it was something to do with that is you're talking about the Civic Quest yeah the I think it had to do with the we that's the web site company that we use yeah I think I thought she said it had something to do with the regional housing that we do something that was being done by Civic Plus for that amazing and so po not for technology but was coming from Community Services yeah and yeah so I don't know what happened why they weren't looking to collect it sooner it is very overdue y three years we pay the difference of the 5500 to the yeah we must have I mean the actually the um PO is for like 5700 so if they did pay it they paid it without the PO but they're saying this is what's do currently we'll definitely look into it but there's enough to pay more if it's still outstanding this is just will be received interesting though any other or questions case move to approve article four second article is amended yes so so the the motion is motion to recommend the substance par P town meeting as amended thank you Maran seconded by andry um let's vote uh Emily yep Joe yes John yes hry yes Mark yes Jeffrey yes Maran yes and Joe yes one second get into detail yeah I was say 10:30 yeah yeah I was thinking that should I just say on 10:30 not get into we I had to amend it yeah well then the warrant pack the warrant's already out and I'm gonna have to when I present it mention that it's different from what's in the the Warr B so I'll be highlighting then you can say that on on October 30th we voted as Amed as amended yeah exactly yep sounds good all right so moving along with the agenda um so we do not need to vote on amended subsequent time meeting more on Article Five um gosh um I left a placeholder for continued discussion about finance committee policies um I'm G to put that there and actually I'm feeling tired of this discussion so far so I'm actually gonna unless anyone else wants to say anything on that point I want to go ahead and move on to discussion of uh future meeting dates and agenda items so let me pull up the our posting schedule thank you we're gonna get stop voting for the same truck over EV we'll see it thank yeah yeah it was it was expensive I think that came back to us and said they couldn't do it for the price that they originally agreed yes no but it's a it's a tough Market because of the fact that it wasn't like we could go somewhere else and get a cheaper so yeah all right go ahead no no go ahead all right yeah I mean I'm um so the um uh okay so we have a placeholder for a meeting next week but thing now that we were able to vote on unless you come up with another bill I'm hoping not we're all hoping not um I know there's an npta communities meeting I think on the sixth as well I can't imagine Maran not being there um and maybe remotely yeah um so um uh yeah and then that's so we don't actually have another then of course we hit time meeting um uh four nights on the calendar I just hoping we get it done not more than that um the uh selectboard presentations on the budget are we usually post for those December 4th and 10th um but we don't have a regular fincom meeting planned at this point uh so um February right correct we would start presenting so actually oh this is interesting this actually has us presenting so okay the school committee goes over their budget in January which again we theoretically are you know posted for that but then um our our um next meeting that's really us is not until February 26th where is that schedule you're looking at is it's on no it's on um it's on our web page it's on finance committe web page current fiscal year meeting schedule left there so um if something comes up obviously we could meet in January but otherwise we're gonna be of course very busy in February March I don't think that was Carla saying they were trying to get the killum to vote in the spring as in the spring election no the springtime meeting so after Spring Town meeting so late spring so a separate special election yeah that was my understanding I mean it's it's um conceivable that there could be a special town meeting and an election um and then you know in time to put it on the boutot for the election but you have to do that I think you have to do that 60 days in Advan the election or something like that which that point just saying if they decided to do that that that could involve us but that's the only reason I it's hard to it's hard to squeeze with budet meetings right um yeah well it seems given the timeline that that was relayed hold on I'm looking back at my own notes um and did Mark say something that he wanted to have he didn't want to have a senior Rec recap Center for active living I'll get the name right around the same time hinting at that no it sounds like um what I heard at at the town meeting yes what I heard was targeting the same vote and I mean I've heard in in our in our final form last spring I remember the discussion where you know there was a I think both uh both people involved with kill and people involved with recal were U uh there was some support for the idea of voting on the two at the same time so I didn't think the killing people wanted at the same time at all maybe not it's it's um I'm not sure you the msba had to be a separate vote but we can double check on the same oh on the same day okay so separate balance physically separate bance gosh okay but I think but then is that we're running two separate elections is that yes I can I can answer that one yes that's just I I don't know that that's a undertaking but that's an undertaking for our to Y okay in addition so the spring election then two dead exclusion elections at at the same time possibly speaking of which uh where are we going to have a special a special election during the summer if the high school floor is being replaced yeah didn't we have a didn't we have early voting here at the library during we facted about that um I I don't know we're gonna have to work around it some because it's going to be three months with that high school for could be to do june so wasn't it there before hopefully the that but no we couldn't do it at like one of the middle schools which has a they have a community gymnas possible but trying to think of what has enough you kill them Jim and everybody for this well coolage I mean there's lot there's much more parking near coolage than it's just a longer walk to the vote but it's essentially the whole high school at Birch Meto area is available near coolage but where would you know you could set it up in the kage cafeteria I mean they've had robotics competitions there so that's pretty looking like yeah Town town meeting I mean uh my understanding you know you have to have there's some delay between putting on the ballot of town meeting and having the election know if that's 60 days but if it is town meeting doesn't start till April 28th um if it goes four nights it would end on May 8th 60 days from that July but I thought they had to have the vote before June 3 2025 oh okay so maybe it would happen in June they don't plan on closing the for the Fai house floor to be done until the end of June because they this is when you can wreck it all up to I was just curious January yeah so unless so so we will um you know presumably post for and I don't see why we shouldn't um the select board and school committee budget presentations even even if we just watch from home or something yeah I didn't you know I mean I I went to those last year and I was the only one there and I was like maybe I should just that was yeah exactly it's faster when when you watch the rewind on YouTube um so yeah um but we will post for those um and then but then the the um the you know first meeting in which we are Center Stage is not until February 26th by the way I'm glad that's after school vacation week so to be school vacation right so um I mean if we obviously if something comes up we need fincom reserves again for something or whatever you know it's un like that usually only happens at the end of the year but sure um could meet sooner but otherwise um we don't actually have to be until febrary wow um are there other things that people and I'm I'll go ahead and actually make a teaser comment about the thing that the um the thing about free cash that that I was thinking of is um one curious thing about the way we keep our reserves is that we have a stabilization fund that's supposed to be the of don't spend it and it's actually really small and most of our reserves are free cash um and so the question is whether we wanted to move more into the stabilization fund so that when people look at our free cash they don't think oh we have $20 million to spend on stuff no no we have like 9 million to spend on stuff and like $1 million just to maintain our reserves they have to understand the budget subsidizing that comes out of that too that it's going to keep keep the override extended out yes what is the I is this in the charter like what is the procedure for spending money out of reserves is it similar to spending it out of pre cash two two3 I think something something about it not being two3 but a majority to use it for station I'm not sure I thought something had changed about for stabilization funds to be used so I'd have to ask it sounds familiar it does sound do she said something about it changing have to be two3 it could be is that is that a concern that only a simple majority could I think that stabilization funds being at a two-thirds vote to get them out makes them more secure right well that's what I'm saying that that could be the weakness of moving it out of free cash into stabilization if it's I don't think it's a weakness to keep in either one I mean I think the stabilization kind of separates what what your reserve level that you are hoping to maintain is you leave it in the stabilization fund and then what's in you could do it that way when we're looking at when Bond rating agencies are looking at us they're absolutely looking at all our reserves not just free cash so it wouldn't because but in the past it used to be a two3 vote and maybe it still is I thought I remember her mentioning something about something changing about that um but with it being two-thirds it's harder to get two-thirds voted at town meeting to take it out and so it's more secure there yeah the other thing that I've always wanted to have was the that the de citiation that will be especially with all of the debt that will not be taken out that's just idea it's a dead stabilization fund you only use it to like if you have a to stabilize your debt schedule so it's something to keep in mind if you if you don't know where to park the money we so youing to like build up like a reserve for for C Capital debt really yeah for Debt Service some places have a capital addal so it's more stabilization funds tend to be like out there and never get used yeah I don't think we've ever used anything the G stabilization it's just I hate have too much in there and then we have an override and there's funds that we really should have used yeah as we went and I think we ought to like you know the stabilization is pretty big but there's other funds that we should be using you know like from the burb rink that I don't know what but that's like 400 something thousand but we haven't better about using other funds that we've had around like the par roof and anything anything that's sitting around that we're like we got to clean this up rather than just defaulting to free cash but the parking roof we had to use it right within two years or something yeah we should we had to use it but we default to free cash and and don't pay attention to like this Project's over there's money sitting here you know I think like the bir bank is a good example of like 400 something thousand and it never gets thought of to use be used and it really should be but it's very specific what to use it no it's not no it actually is not it's not no it's it's there's a there's a bit of a there's been a discussion about this because I'm told that the the spirit of it was for it to be used for recreational related expenses say and I understand that Carl mcfaden from The Ring Ice Arena Authority has been talking with the rec committee and the SL board about trying to make that official but today that is not today it's but but even if it was there's still wck use money is fungible so like you just you take that money and you spend it on one wreck thing and you take the money you would have spend on W thing you spend it on something else so like it's kind of yeah no it's a it's a it's a so Sharon is is our stabilization fund considered a special purpose St stabilization fund or is there another type so there's special purpose ones so there is the um the smart V is considered a special purpose and then there's the um this B one because when relating to the change in the law I found something on the mass Municipal page that from late December 2023 that had changes signed into law December 4th 2023 and the paragraph says Section 8 allows for a simple majority vote of the local legislative body rather than a 2/3 vote to draw down special purpose stabilization F the general wouldn't be a two3 vote is still required to establish both types of stabilization funds yeah so can we use like the smart I think that might have been right so that's why I'm just understanding we want to know whether it's special purpose or not I don't but if you were saying to yourself well we say we want to keep Reserves at least at 7% you could entertain the idea of getting that general fund stabilization fund to about 7% so that you know that you're safe you know like and then whatever's in free cash field kind of separates the money but either way it's not going to hurt us if it's if it's in one bucket or another when it comes to the bond ratings it's it's primarily sort of a word psychological thing um and then you could argue it both ways of like what it's could be you know we we do like give people an accurate view of how much free cash we have but then even that is also confusing because so much free cash gets cycled through our operating budget and back again every year so I mean it's interesting the bond agencies don't look at that whatever it's their business they look at bothan they don't that they don't um that they don't prefer us to keep money where it's hard to spend I think that they like to look and see historically how you managed yourself and and to keeping your reserves high and paying up your debt quickly those are things that they see it consistant with you then that makes them more comfortable yeah but I mean it's sort of a like I mean I wonder what the you know what the discussion will be like when you know we have you know 12 million in reserves but that's not 7% anymore whatever I forget exactly where I got the spreadsheet here yeah it depends what the budget grows to but yeah depending on what the budget gets to um you know if um it's definitely concern for sure yeah no I guess it's only about 9 million that's being like in 2028 would be 7% in the production but that's still like yeah and then there's just I'm looking at this um mass.gov highly recommended financial reserves page and they have a five to 7% of operating budget but they call it a general stabilization fund so it's like we're it's just semantics but that 5 to s% is the number right we have yes we have a general stabilization fund um it's one of these R wanted to move it I think it has to be moved by town meeting you have to have to this would this would be this would be an April town meeting thing if we wanted to do something about it so we could propose something for that if um yeah and they say five to s% of free cash too so there's all these gu this is where all the guidance comes from all to bookmark this page yeah it is I mean I I so said 10 to 14% And well they're saying like this page on mass.gov which is highly recommended financial reserves from 2022 and it gives recommended amounts so it says like free cash and it says you know use it for one-time things further we recommend defining a Target balance for free cash certification as a percentage of the general front budget such as 5 to 7% and striving to keep a targeted year and unappropriated free cash balance to find the next certification and then it but it also says that under General stabilization fund a community's Target balance varies by budget experience a recommended goal is in 5 to 7% then there special purpose stabilization funds which doesn't give a range but there's just there's good explanations there one of the things you had asked at one of the last meetings that I was thinking about is what makes us different like why does this model work for us and I think a piece of it that kind of we don't really think about is that we we spend 5% of our budget on C capital in debt and we don't borrow for all of the capital A lot of a lot of towns will actually use their free cash on a one-time Capital thing every year we're spending what $3 million on Capital within our budget with Albarn and so that's not typical in every Community the way our budget is built and the way that we do it is a little bit different like the accommodated costs coming off the top I don't think that's typical um just the way we do it is just a little bit different and and they tell you onetime uses like capital is the kind of thing you should be able to use it for and we're spending $3 million on Capital and it's part of our operating budget you know what I mean so so if you're looking at what you're using for free cash you could say well some of that's really going towards those onetime uses the capital um so I I was thinking about that when you said it why do this work for us because just it's been working for us but I don't know and I was thinking some of the differences I've seen that's the accommodated cost coming off the top and part of that accommodated cost is a 5% commitment to debt and capital and we borrow for very short term we try and keep it going and we've got very little that and the capital is kind of committed to every year we don't say oh okay we don't have get a typ budget little to last we're pretty committed to that 5% so I think that's why it works for us a little bit why it makes it a little different in the is different from like the the um I've gotten interested in history lately partly because my wearing my other had on CPA study committee I've been reading old incom notes and stuff from 20 years ago when when they were when reading was considering the CPA and the um we didn't have a stabilization fund or um some guy Nam Chuck Robinson was on the finance committee made a motion to create a stabilization fund um well back then they were they were paying for like renovations to barrows out of the oper wereing very dangerous to do too much very but then it's interesting we go everything else yeah that's why I think we have the fincom policy that says if it's over $4 million or something should be so if we did full projects like roughly million right in debt what would that look like sound if you're talking about both projects I was thinking was like I was thinking that I mean a lot of people were saying so we got like she was saying I thought that would be like 98 I thought it was about 98 million would be our share 128 and that's you know before more hopefully not more inflation but I have not priced out the senior Center because I've not heard any was giving us like three estimates that all came out the same 27 million or so a year ago almost a year ago as you pointed out they were proposing to build the same building in three different places the same building would have crossed rough the I this what I just this why I asked I said how come we didn't get different options like they did with Kil just to me it made sense even even a smaller gym they want a gym but does it have to be that size I don't know it doesn't yeah I get it you want to see them get what I know it's just I want to see them get something I feel I fear the community is facing a lot of so the danger that Mar is you could always wish your gym was a little smaller but once you build it you can't wish it's a little big no I know I know I guess it's what what what do people want to take on you are better toci you're right it is a yeah but you R the risk of not getting anything at all right it's a Gamble and it may or may not be a smart one but it's think if it's if it's 27 to go smaller it's probably still the difference is with the senior I keep calling it senior Cent if it gets rejected they can get another bite at the Apple they don't get two bites with kill them like I mean they it's it'll be the exact same bite and they'll try to like really pretty pleased pass this they can't change has the advantage of of grant funding you know KN that hey if you don't take this now we could be paying this whole but Senior Center they could come back with a revised design smaller or something else if the community doesn't like it so they so I guess why not grab everything try for everything first yes sales the only cost is the additional election and the more more redesigned money which is not trib yeah but I mean we heard we certainly heard a pretty unanimous support for this strategy of taking a really big swing first so um um you know just quickly like 137 million if you have to finance that like I'm trying to figure out what that would look like so Deb yeah yeah the debt exclusion what do you mean in terms of what the debt payment would be yeah could do that off my percent we got that estimate a long time ago under Fidel and I remember I had that and it was like October 2022 to meeting we had this table I know what the the find it but I don't know anything about the so recently I had them run the numbers a large number looking for at the 38 with like a 30% msba so was like a 98 million dollar and it looked like it would be if I did a 30e borrowing average household about somewhere in that 7 do increased range and that's not counting the fact that these debt exclusions the last couple years are falling off that $300 that average $300 people are saving so but you don't really notice that savings because your your taxes are going up every year the property Valu just goes up a little yeah so but so it looked like somewhere in that range of you know 7 to 750 but also in a time when we're starting to see those debt exclusions I don't know what the interest rates were asso thees we were we were assuming a 5% coupon because you know we'll get a premium and all of that but that's what we have to assume from from a bond rating perspective that's not too extreme though right if we only have 5% well already it should be fine yeah okay okay yeah I mean the the the the the one that's um that Marion is referring to um estimated an impact of 88 cents per for this was for an8 for an $84 million share Which is less than we're now projecting it was 88 cents per thousand of home value um so well say say a $900,000 home right average home that's what we're getting at yeah2 bucks I think the average home when I did it recently was 870 900,000 and it was it was saying it would be it was very close numbers though for thousand I think 89 I forget what it was exactly but about $750 for the average so that's a lot so you're really looking at when you add the two together like a thousand thousand and that's before CPA that's just guessing at this point plus but the one benefit we do have is that interest rates are going down and borrowed yet so we might we might let out and actually get lower interest rates than what we're what we're projecting by the time borrowing goes out the last few weeks we to I know we're not borrowing right now so anything everything can change a week from now too after we all maybe based on the pace elsewhere get that even we get a premium and then you to p% so we just budget the 5% interesting or 4% whatever the going is so when we do the debt exclusion for this for Kell we have to pass the debt exclusion for the full amount right and then tell those others but by the way we're going to get 40 million and we probably won't borrow the combin so that things can keep moving you know yeah exactly it is going to be the big scary number absolutely you have to do the whole I remember for the library we did the same thing it was 19 million supposed to get five or six back and we had to approve the bigger number well then the library there was two things because they were unexpected cost a whole another story The MSB has been really good about just getting us our money as I'm putting reimbursements the money is coming in very fast which isn't the case what used to be music when you did the msba thing so if you're doing regular reimbursements their money is coming in very regular so they're looking at your invoices this is allowable this isn't allowable and then they give their share so you're getting the money as things are moving along where it used to be you be waiting till the end of the project and baring the whole project and then they would be giving you your money back later I feel like that's a better way of doing things the way they're doing it now so are we getting money back from the 2.2 million in Des yeah the last kill meting years ago I saw I'll be the whole meeting with invoices I remember seeing all the invoices so Sharon will you not spend the 2.2 then so when I asked what to do with the 2.2 million dollars like and because msba money was coming in I'm like what do I do with this msba money does it go in the general fund and she's like I I would put it in a capital project fund for the feasibility study for the 2.2 put the msba funding in there and then when you're ready to go for the project you'll vote that whatever remains towards the project so that you borrow less so that you know we committed the 2.2 feasibility study and they're giving us they're saying that number was high to begin with and then you know msba is helping us and paying as we go so that that that money could grow a little bit more than we think you know so it's just sitting there so so the 2.2 what how much do they think they're going to get the so the 2.2 is more than we'll need I think for the feasibility study is what I understood say it's two there's really there's really two questions there's a question of how much of the 2.2 do we spend and then how much of that gets reimbursed is that the so they think like 48 something per of whatever it cost us to do the Fe is so we've already received we get 100% of what we don't spend and we get I think we already about 264,000 already received from the msba so we're and then I had another $35,000 reimbursement going to them so and they'll pay whatever it's eligible from that so probably about 40 something 48% whatever it is so the money coming in I don't think any of us were thinking about oh msba is going to kick in towards that $2.2 million P I wasn't thinking that we'd see that money till later but the way they do it now is they're actually giving it to you as you're spending as you're spending it and as you're putting reimbursements as frequently as you put through reimbursements they determine if these are El the cost and they send what's due from them which is better because you're not borrowing the whole amount right exctly there was a time when you would borrow the whole amount and then they pay towards the debt service and all that stuff for you but now it's better this way all right um so theoretically we're talking about future meeting agendas I actually well this was we we ended up talking about the um Reserve policy thank you for that actually useful to me it was well was policies was it just said policies I didn't specify I was thinking okay this was all on the agenda right but yeah yes yeah no our Reserve policy has been one big policy discussion well that was that and then we've also I trust me I in the back of my head I'm like is this on the agenda plus also we were talking about the things that we talked about earlier as long as we're talking about kill and marel we're talking about things on tonight's agenda so well you did say Finance policy that stabilization part of so we're we're I'm I'm thinking about it too don't worry all right um is there anything else that we should be thinking about for future agendas all right uh then I think we have meeting minutes to approve and then I think we are done for the evening so to approve the finance committee meetings for October 9th second you Jeffrey thank you Mark was there any discussion I did not have any edits did [Music] anyone round thank you for presenting them Jackie but it sounds like this is going to be a quick yeah nothing all right hearing hearing hearing no discussion let's vote uh Emily yep no yes John y andrys because I wasn't present andry abstains Mark yes Jeffrey yes Maran yes and Joe carahan yes one move to a Jour second second I understand very it is it has been it has been a time in our house I appreciate everybody's patience with me yes yes thank you all all right thanks everybody yeah I the library yeah e e