reported of the February 26th rmld Board of Commissioners meeting uh is being we you guys call over in a second announc being audio recorded held remotely on zoom and live stream recording in progress okay we'll restart calling
order that was good practice though Board of Commissioners uh is now in session February 26 2025 being audio recorded held remotely on zoom and live streamed on rctv um we'll wave the code of conduct I think everybody's heard it
nobody's participating remotely the okay we'll call the c meeting to order okay there you go I think we're in session so we we did invite CH yes Chris is on here rctv isn't here
as well if you had questions relative when you get to the home Stu Chris Chris can if if dep on what you do if you just keep it simple then they'll if needed okay okay um leaz on do we have any let me
just I'll go first then Ray um I attended last night the uh the turnback for the railroad oh okay where they're going to build their additional track between um wman Street and Willow Street uh it was a for the MBT had a public
session was a hostile crowd as as should be expected quite truthfully um and I was concerned because actually it does affect the property where I live so that's why I went but uh one of the suggestions they came is they came with the suggestion that maybe that could be
built up off of U Causeway Street instead of between Willow and and and wuben Street and that could be up there by Causeway Street which is where the where the substation is substation 4 yeah so I don't know the the NBA test said well gee we haven't looked into
that we we'll go look at it and see what they did they looked at other sites they discounted them they said you know the site down here was not to grade was too difficult for the engineer to see anything I was surprised yeah I I looked at it because a great starting point
right on that they talked about whether they could just put another trck by the uh the station they said well that would require the the entire station to be rebuilt which we don't have the money for and and the money that they have funded for is specifically for the purpose of increasing ridership is what
this is this is why this is being done and the people who live on Vine Street and those people in in Handcock Street were all up in there and infect infects tanille and all those properties too so it was a lot of discussion went on to like 9:30 you know from 7 o'clock to 9:30 so a lot of discussion but I did
bring it up because they did talk about potentially looking at the site off of Causeway Street which is where the substation is so keep tuned yeah okay um other leaz on yeah sorry Le yeah
go ahead yeah so um we're going to get to my role as a town Charter Committee Member um as a topic so I'm not going to go into that um as far as the kilum school there's been no new action other
than yes they're going to put in as far as the base price of the project solar panels on top of the school not doing the parking lot area so that's undeveloped space um and and that's fine
for now if at some point rmld wants to develop that space that's a future question for a future time and another another discussion but um that that makes sense in terms of them being an all electric school to put the solar panels on it I think that's a reasonable
investment and they um they did see the payback on that and and but that's not news that what I reported out last time um a third thing but I can't remember what it was anyways whatever the third thing that I was doing there was nothing
happening on it so no new news um the one thing that we dropped into the email last night was green communities oh yeah we met with the town of read yesterday on green communities and we've been work so at the end of the day um I thought that we would need to
do a motion to approve um but we can actually do that motion we can do it at the March meeting okay um if you want I can give you guys a quick you know just the 30 second update that you add to the agenda otherwise we can I can send the materials via email and we can discuss it next month uh which is probably the
right thing to do at this point in time but I want to give you the option um if there's an advantage to just if it's a quick motion tonight to just get it there's a thing we need to get done no I'm just do it I mean so what you need to do right now is decide to add the green community's topic to the agenda pleas AG
unless there's a problem with that there you said you would send materials since there's something we should read first I'll I'll I'll present this let me pres like add it I'll present it and then you can decide if you want to do the motion next month or not is it this for April town
meeting I assume to be set up okay then it's fine to do it March probably we do it we do yeah okay we'll do it March than you thanks any other leaz on I think do we have a member of the public here no oh yes I love having
members of the public please come please uh if you have something to say come uh state your name and address and we just need to have a mic for you yeah thank you T thank uh thank you for having me um my
name is Char protopapas I live on 16 King Street in wiing Massachusetts um the reason why I'm here is a uh concern over cver pole hits uh and the manner and the time
that it takes to replace those um the poll that I'm talking about specifically is a pole on Dobson Street I believe it's pole nine it was recently um installed by Verizon and reading light came and did the
transfer the poll was originally hit mid 2023 um I had called a couple times wondering what was going on the pole was braced but it was shaky at best and just
a some background I'm a 20-year lineman so I'm not just somebody who doesn't know what I'm looking at so my question is twofold why does it take that long to replace that um
especially a safety issue um I understand Verizon does the poll sets in wilington and that can be touch and go but also I I understand that insurance will cover that cover Poll for whoever hit that what happens
to that money where does that go because I'm sure that claim has been closed long ago so what happens with that money who pays for that the difference in changing it having a crew come out then charging it to that
insurance as opposed to waiting a couple years everything has gone up the labor has gone up since then who recovers that money does that get passed on to the rate payer and that basically my question and and I see a lot of polls that have been
braced that have been hit and that are waiting to get changed so how many of these are out there and how come they're not calling a crew out to do that because when I worked for urce we used to have a 90day limit everything had to get set and transferred to get that
money from the insurance company so how is that being recouped are you ready do you want to take this off the line or are you ready to do quick yeah so um did did um somebody call you today yes okay I wasn't able to talk to them um we traded
voicemail perfect perfect perfect so so two elements um in our territory um we work in cooperation with Verizon and the polls in Wilmington the and so those polls are
the responsibility of Arizon um they don't have the equipment to do anything over 55 feet so anything over 55t we take the responsibility for so the transaction you're talking about all goes through Horizon we handle the polls in most of reading and North Reading um and so we
again as an MLP we are very responsive and we don't like double polls um and you you know right um Whoever has the maintenance responsibility of the poll there U which is in our case for North Reading and and read um we're also the
utility company so we can transfer everything except for communications so but in the case of Wilmington all of the transactions and the costs you're talking about are run through Verizon not through rmld so okay so that so and and and I will state this publicly um
because it is Our intention um we are we are P we are persisting to work out a program with Horizon so that that responsibility for all of the polls in our territory would transfer over to rlb
because we actually think and we we we we we can be much more responsive in terms of taking care of the issues so that's our intention um that's the motion we're trying to move so I think your request is is appropriate and well founded but the challenge is is that
Verizon is the audience for that question rather than us and I'm not not I'm not trying to push you off we legitimately um push and we work through engines and all the different programs that you're you're probably familiar with um but ultimately um we've we've we
are at the yeah we're at the mercy of Verizon in that situation but we we like we literally looked at those polls so our safety record was particularly good um we we we were just awarded in fact I didn't put on my D update but we just were awarded the ATA Diamond level
highest level for safety um uh we take take that very seriously um we look at what's happening out in the west coast you know so not just making sure the poles are steady Etc but also treat try ex I all the different things that you know intimately well that are required to keep it the network safe and reliable
so we do that well but we and we realize that it's not as good when we're not directly handling it so that I mean we can get into more details but the big picture is we want to make that right it's just you know if it's if it's less than 55 ft at the
mercy of the other part so does reading light have a a vehicle to sayit this is an emergency pole yes we're taking it yes yes so and that's why I had the the line Foreman I think he went out well I know he went out to take a look at it
today I and it looks great by the way they did great work you know you know the power is transferred yeah you know now waiting on Communications um but so I just want like I said who where did that money go
you know yeah that money so that all that stuff is on the Verizon side but we and and so when we have those kind of issues we deal with it on our side but it's the ones that we have the maintenance responsibility so you wouldn't build the insurance company also because there
should be that Cab's po because R light time that doesn't seem fair than it go to the rate payers um I I'll have to double check on that but the primary Whoever has the operating whoever's the maintenance responsibility the insurance claims go through that entity so we do we we move very quickly on the ones and
ours um I'll have I can double check and get back to you I have your I have your contact information now so um and I you know with the request I will follow up sure um but it probably won't be till next week just make sure I get all the information but I will and and Charlie really um we want the feedback um and
and we really you know we've continued to improve and upgrade the quality of the work that the line Crews do and you're if you're a lineman you understand like like our crews they take respons no looks looks great they are proud of the work they do
and we we want to keep that running yeah and it's also as you know right it's our it's literally advertising I mean it doesn't have our sign on it but everybody hey that's ready yeah I mean I I hate the fact that yeah I walk my dogs and I look up at the PW you know like look it's just part of the how could you
do that yeah yeah so I hope that helps right now I will get no that's great I appreciate your time and yeah no I appreciate for coming I know but and it and the fact you came we we like we take pride in the work so it's actually helpful to elevate it so that the board hears this as well so thank you I ask
quick question is there any way for you guys to contact Verizon on his on that behalf to see if something can be expedited or well I and that's what I gave to so the so the line form it is actually I'll see what he so I talked to him early this morning um I know he went
out did some but I know he also went who there's a program that we work we have a good relationship for the Verizon yeah that's why I was hoping that the relationship you have may be better than charliie calling and oh no well no in terms of well in terms of Charlie in terms of where the money goes but in terms of getting it addressed sooner
rather than later um we we'll we'll chase out I mean it's already in process because I I did call the uh the ring Light number and the control room and the gentleman uh basically frankly told me that it's my turn to call
um oh okay well I'll follow up on that as well okay so I you know and I did email and went back and forth with from people in customer service and they were just saying yeah we we've tried to call Verizon and and I know they went out a couple times and there was a new Dig Safe you know for a long time it wasn't
even Dig Safe yeah you know Dig Safe has a 30-day window right yeah yeah and uh so like but they weren't even Mo like the pole wasn't marked for dig we we are in the process there's a there's a concerted effort so um condemn polls double polls um but you
know we've got a deep list of work along those lines for our C to walk through and and there's a concertive effort literally right now it has been for the past year and a half two years now but just you know catching us you know as you know right certain things have priorities and right
now that's on the priority list so I I appreciate the feedback Char I will get back than you thank you very much for coming out absolutely please have enjoy a snack um okay meet meeting minutes um that we have three sets of minutes here
thank you Erica four okay the motion you ready Mr chair well do we the moot I do have a couple of things on it do we do the motion first yeah do the motion first move the rld Board of Commissioners approve September 11th 2024 October 25th 28 2024 November
11 2024 and January 7 27th 2025 open the session meeting minutes I presenting the recommendation of the general manager and the board secretary second so that's a lot of minutes many minutes it's
almost an hour um I have we have we had a chance to review all four of these I mean I know it's usually just kind of okay because I I looked quickly at the 27th I notice a couple little things U are we ready to vote for him yes no I'm
ready to vote I'm ready I I'm not gonna ask for a quiz whether I read them yeah yeah yeah it's fine so let me just I I read them thoroughly I want you to know as the board secretary secretary well okay this look page page seven of our board book
okay um where it has me saying on two-thirds of the way down that concerns over the OT were raised by couter commissioner Coulter this summer well I did say that that he earlier but I also said that was raised by the board full
board over the summer that we as a board had done it but that's not in here so I think it's a big distinction it wasn't just that one commissioner raised it uh seven months ago it was that the whole board did so I don't know if that's something do you want to go back and look at it again or add it here and stipulate that that's what was said
repeat that again please well it was that that the concerns around this were raised by commissioner Coulter at one point but also by all of us as a board this past summer that would be the addition and and also by the full board line are you actually on can you two thirds of the way down two way down
suggested that concerns on the 410 were raised by commissioner cter comma I would say comma and then by us as a board is what just say NB and NB NB sure I'll accept that as part of the main motion Mr chair yeah I haven't had a chance to read all but I do I appreciate
Erica always does a great job on minutes and that you've got four of them in front of us is that's like a full-time job is once we vote this it'll be in my email probably with the next 10 minutes thank you Erica as usual so okay with that then okay ready for a vote yeah
okay then all in favor I okay motion carries four with one absent um quick thing while we talking about minutes um I sit on a few committees have does Erica have to type every these listen to recording and type all this out does AI jump in and do a
lot of this nowadays you may answer yeah go ahead so um it depends we we what's going on right now is normally we'll transcribe by listening and then use chat GP to help with that but I in my personal
experience chat GP if it misinterprets one thing in the transcrip your whole minutes are off the content so everything so sometimes it actually takes a little longer we do that because then we have to go back and check the trans like okay this is actually what was said or things like that so it's
helpful um in some ways and you know still needs work in others but do use it whenever we can when it's been appreciate that and thank you for the effort you put in that sounds like a lot of work okay now we're at we are at the charter
Review Committee Ray is our nothing so just as a procedural matter Ray one of the things the cab wanted to do is include some language recognizing the role of the cab so what we would
like to do here it's okay we would like to have a motion from the cab okay make a recommendation to B and then you can then take a motion on your okay let me do an introduction uh and then I'll invite you to make a motion and then
whatever comes out of that we can we can follow that motion because I want to I want to shape why the motion is framed like it is it'll help you understand in in sh in shaping yours um so the way I thank you
I I welcome your input certainly let me give an introduction um describing why the motion is shaped the way it is um and then I want to work through the questions just so that we have a
discussion about them the the situation right now is it's an all and nothing thing the the TR Review Committee isn't interested in editing anything thing and what we're coming from here we haven't really it's it's an all and nothing
thing kind of from this side so so it's the motion is shaped such that there's three verbs uh in terms of what action I take either approve disapprove or abstain uh an action that is anticipated by the Home World chter um but I do want
to go through it to to show to have a discussion here and and certainly you guys please participate in that discussion um about where some of the issues lay um and lay or lie I don't know which that is anyways Mary my wife
would tell me instantly which is the correct bir um and and while I think a good point might be some hybrid of the language proposed here I don't think we're ever going to get there so
um that's that's the approach I want to take um and that's my my introduction um can I get it are you ready you have comment on that or do you want can we get it kind to the specifics now
so there's two things we're working on one is at a higher level we're trying to work the cab into some of the policies and we and that's something that Greg's going to be you know talking about later but it also makes sense that if
you to talk about the home rule uh Charter I think it's fair and this is something that's been tried in the past and maybe has not worked but it's worth ra raising given the fact that you know
more than 50% of the revenues for rmld comes from outside it's just fair to recognize the role of the the cab in terms of the governance in terms of the advisory role so
I I can see it coming in two statements one as a 1 a and one as a modification of statement 8 okay so specifically so so if that's where we want to go I'm willing to at least make a motion from
the cab um I'm sorry I didn't have time to you know distribute it in advance because I I just yeah um understand like for our group having that discussion and sharing your perspective is a good thing
and I welcome your your thoughts on how you'd like to see that but this language whatever edits we might make to this language we'll never probably make it to that's fair enough that's no I I I I recognize that's something that
won right okay yeah record yeah good this is something that we can also communicate back Channel with the select board sure say say that this is something that should be factored in so this is back channel that too sure okay
so I'm not that great at wordsmithing these motions but let me let me try to propose this so the cab would like to recommend to the boc that the role of the cab in terms
of advising for strategy programs and rates be included in statement 1 a in terms of could be statement one a I think you should yeah I I suggest you make your edit to the in the context of
what the existing Charter language is as opposed to what these it doesn't David okay okay no I would rather I'd rather just capture his right his goal and interest in in in that
because not gonna get into okay yeah I mean I can support what Ray's saying I've B my head against the wall three times yeah yeah it's why the hairline is kind of f you have really okay so so so so in one a we would talk about the role of the cap
right yeah and in eight in in eight we would talk about you know the role of the cab in terms of advising or you know making recommendations to the boc when rates are being t
determined right so this is about cap sorry this is about operating budget and capital budget what is what is the language change that you're proposing that's that's well the c role in advising and recommendation of rates and capital
budgets yeah okay so so so like include include in one thing in statement one and one thing in statement eight in yeah in in statements eight and one so so yeah um so so that's that's
that's that's that's a recommendation that the camp so I so anyone wants to Second it I'll second that okay all in favor adding that thought okay so that's and so you can ER works okay email what you wrote yeah um and I agree because
rmld is unique in that we do have multiple cities and is as much as um a large percentage of electricity does come from the other cities it makes sense to to have um have more input from that normally it
an rmld a municipal a um is one town so in general you might not see that um I think one one careful and and the language is good because it does touch on the two main powers I think one one
issue as we think through this is there is really two two different Frameworks that are being talked about one is those rules and regulations and laws which govern rmld and and what is the governance of rmld what's it structure
how's it run who's in charge and and uh chapter 164 and and whatever sub chapters that govern that govern how rmld is structured and run and then the home Rule Charter is how the reading
town government government is structured so it's a it's how government is structured not how a business is operated and and those are the two they're very different in terms of what they are so when we look at the charter
these aren't laws this is just structure of the government and within that structure there is a section 3.5 which says Commissioners and so where that collides is in the government
of reading structuring the Commissioners and giving them the authority to oversee rmld collides with the laws in which rmld must follow in its operation so when we the where the
Divide needs to fall is the structure of the reading government can't impede on the ability of the general manager or rld to function as an organization so how do you give power or
authority to the Commissioners without limiting the power and authority of the general manager to run the organization so that gets to be where the the line is and the perception of where that line Falls um
so if you go back and look at the 20 years of history that um uh of the board we're down to two five-year-olds yelling yes I can no you can't yes I can no you can't so we're down to the point where there really isn't going to be any negotiation we're either going to change
something or we're not going to change something but I want us to understand a little bit tonight um of of kind of what's being asked here what changes are being asked how does how does that dividing line between Reading Town governments and and the that how the cab
might fit into that uh in a governance standpoint um versus the the requirements that rmld must meet under 164 as a as a business as an organization 164 is actually a part I
think of title 22 and 22 is corporations so under state law rmld is considered a corporation 164 is Municipal gas and and light companies so of the many 21 other different Corporation types there are um
that state law sees us as as as a corporation and therefore separate from town government except for that oversight responsibility so um and real quick Bray may I ask you're when the thing you have up is is John coil's Memo from February no I don't
know what I have up oh sorry I thought I saw something yeah I'm just that that those line edits cor that is John foil's table from his February 2024 so we've and we've had this well since October we didn't have
it between February and October or September but we have had it for the last five months and that's what you're showing us now yeah and and I'm only using this as a framework I did you're right I did extract it and these are the these the yeah um so item one um there
shall be a Municipal Light Board of Commissioners consisting of five members elected from three uh year terms are range as possible um Range so that the equally distributed br ly across the year that's sort of a contraction of uh What uh
16455 describes describes several options that a municipal might board might be structured um and out of that various structures that are in the state uh law um reading has chosen five member
board and a 331 reelection cycle uh so the the actual law say more than here but this is this is reading saying we're going to choose the five member board option and therefore that's in there but it's I want to just kind of make an
example of this is not precise language coming out of the state law it's a contraction it's a it's a summary of of of that so it's not even in this there are not edits to make it precisely like
state law that it's accepted that this is a reasonable contraction of it and and gets to the intent of the structure um um item two Municipal Light Board of Commissioners takes out have hold and exercise to me that is in two
three for one uh lawyering where they get three new words for every one they take out there's probably reasons for it but it it Escapes Me $1,500 award yeah well that's there we go so that's that's me the bonus words um and then kind of
starting the intent is in it although there's a reference to master general laws chapter 64 above it's kind of there is a statement inserted about other duties fault being consistent with
Mass general laws um I don't think it's a legal requirement that that phrase be there but nevertheless it's part of that intent of trying to get reading to be have its Charter be consistent with 164 and I say again they are slightly
different um questions on that as I go through this I do want this to be a discussion if you have have questions as we work through this my request is that we're going to do policies later so anything that you say here should not compromise the role
of the cab going forward that that that's the one that's the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish right and so if it's going to get ignored it's going to get ignored so I think we'll just make sure that the policies cover the role of the C and and would the policy
in that context if the policies are in place do policies of rmld supersede anything on this the word policy is it is an interesting choice that you made because there's
governance which is the town chter and then there is Operation which is 164 for rmld policy is actually embeded Ed within us the cab and and the board um and I think in defining
policies yes I I think that is a mutual thing and I think we should both have input on it um it is it is not the goal of the charter to Define policy but simply in give the authority
to the Commissioners to set policy in other words you're not going to see um the Clean Air Act you're not going to see clean heat build um clean heat heating for buildings you're not going to see other policy statements that relate
to renewable energy or whatever else in this this is governance who's who's in charge um and that we're given the authority to direct the general manager with policy and then let him execute that as executive
director and to spin off what and I I I with what you're saying um I think re's true Spirit here is um what has happened over as far as I'm again over 10 years in this board what's happened over the last year or so when we combine the two boards and we share information and work
together I think that gives cab more than it's ever had that I've been on the board um and hearing the voice heard with the group instead of one person from each committee seeing each other side so I think we've moved more towards that as policy um but again you can't
can't change Mass General law you can't change the Char but I think as long as the voice is heard or inputs taken and appreciated I think I mean what VC's trying to do is make sure it's in there as writing so it does count instead of just the word of each other saying we're
going to allow it so that's where policy does come in and I think it's more of a policy change as you describe it um but I think by combining the two boards and meeting on the same night we've achieved more in one year than I watched in nine years before that and but much
communication and it's uh it's yeah I agree with you Dennis and just stepping way back I mean in terms of process here the charter committee uh started 15 months ago and we had an appointe 15 months ago and this is a great conversation and I just wish it was happening a year ago instead of now
because it's too late they're not going to change it well they didn't change 10 years ago they wer gonna change it but still 10 years ago they weren't changing into 20 years hold on a second but there they wouldn't change your specific thing but uh they weren't gonna change anything no matter what let me finish my
thought let me finish my thought no difference there I think they're what I like where you're going with it in terms of it would be useful to have our Charter defining where the cab does and doesn't and how the cab shall interact those would be good things to do and if we'd been a year ago I think we could
have constructively had some language and maybe could have pushed forward and gotten in there yeah what I think too I would have been in favor of it to you're looking more of the cab exists because of the 20-year agreement not the Chatters right not so we don't even exist in the world of everything else
but the respect of the two boards and the working group The is where this all work but we're really non-existent until it becomes the 20-year agreement so we are a subset of everything else and that's how we exist today but I think these two boards or this board has grown
a lot by combining the two and I think that growth should continue as I mentioned to a few people um I gave my resignation because I need to step down but I want to see this and I I'm hoping it continues as a group to um work together and have the input because I've
again I've learned a lot from everyone over there and everyone here um by working together and being on the same board so I think it achieves everything that be's saying because you guys are now listening to the cab for nine years or eight years anyway we were just a meeting that showed up and Dave you sat
at a lot of them fill youself and people ran through the motions but what we said didn't count and I think the spirit of a and is exactly you know making the word heard and that's combining these meetings has done that and then you guys
follow M our law we're part of the 20-y year agreement and we it all works together that's just my two sense the one thing that I want to add is and it's Kat that I having lived through the wilington pulling out the many people on
reading believe this is reading's life department they can do whatever they want with it in all truthfulness you know and that's the one thing this you know after I'm gone I hope this is remembered that this BL department is for the ra payers and not for not for the town read Pam did you have a comment
earlier sorry sorry um well I was just trying to make sure I was clear as Ry was going through this what the intent of us understanding these changes which it sounds like will not get put into the charter what's the goal
of that yeah well the goal of that is I am going to ask for when when the charter votes to approve disapprove or have me Asain abstain from a vote that they will take I want you to I want you to answer that question how should I
vote okay for you to answer that question how should I vote I think you need to understand the issues of having me take one of those choices and just be confirmed you had proposed
these changes these changes had committee these changes were presented to the Charter committee through Phil um the the drafting of these was by coil whatever the law firm was and and presented to them as as recommendations
and they have rejected them and um but but so we've been we it's the same as we've been through before the same discussion we had in the fall correct nothing has changed Okay so um and it's my well why it's my opinion
that adding the cab or providing hybrid language or accepting some or not others of these would be a better way to handle it um I don't think we're ever going to get there um right now it's a yes you can no you can't and and it'll be an up
or down sort of vote I would only ask that because we're it's going to be a long meeting right we we go quickly through yeah well can I just make one point thing as much as I'm in favor of having it added to the Charter at some point whether it's going be this year
but whenever we have do have to be careful because it is the other towns and this is reading's Charter So reading Charter is saying we need to have members of other towns the other towns also need to agree that they're going to provide members to the board so not exactly sure legally the
charter can do that right so we got to be careful with that as much as I want it in there and show that we're working together in governance we gotta be a little bit careful of how we how that gets worded but I totally agree with you we're not
proposing to put it in there so we probably don't need a legal opinion on that right now no I'm not saying like right now but I'm just saying like I don't think guess we're talking about being changes but I do think that if we ever get to the point where we're at that point of they're actually gonna accept some changes and and we do that
we got to make sure that that's worded correctly yeah it truly comes down to that the board Commissioners recognizing the cab input which you guys have done a great job doing um and be part of the policies and
procedures to help you guys make decisions as well and then that will cover unofficially on a charter but again we want we we live in the 20-year agreement so we're not going anywhere and I've always should be heard like like I said all I can do is the 10 years
I've been here there were many years that we were ignored and I will say that to anyone that was involved in the past and I used to leave every meeting going why do we come to this and now I don't do that anymore and thank you to the board over there that have built this relationship
on thank you Dennis so let's yeah yeah so going quickly there there are there's a couple here which are a little more critical um item three crossed out his duties uh an and just leaving the terms of employment in terms of the board's Authority U over the general manager's
contract his duties was stricken because the duties of the general manager were specifically defined in sub chapter um 56 or 56a in which the general manager shall and there's like a long list of
things that you've got to do Greg y a long um and so it was struck because we don't really then have the ability to take away those duties I would say I would not want to
strike and his duties because we could add them we could add maybe you're part of the green communities or you're part of something in town where your role as general manager is integral to that topic and we would want to have you involved in a a state state action or
some other action so we couldn't take away duties that are established at 164 but we could add some so I I would I would say I wouldn't want his duties and U be dropped out necessarily um as as a part of a wholesale change because that still
could be we could add to that um then the next two are crossed out in their entirety um and and this gets to the heart of it and this this is where uh and uh Phil the historian will
will know that there was a general manager who was accused of doing bad things and reading said well we want to make sure this doesn't happen again and they put these two requirements in there which is that the board will appoint appoint is the word a accountant and a
councel and they will report to the general manager for supervision and operation and the idea was that somehow by the board appointing this person we got a our guy in the organization to and it wasn't the general manager's guy and
and somehow that was protective of the town but the general manager is your guy but well because you hire the general manager well you know that's well but that's see that's now where the conflict is because now the town Charter is trying to put in into its Charter the
responsibility of staff that the general manager manages you can see how that crossed over now there's not assigning the board a power responsibility it's assigning the board a person within rmld under the supervision of the general
manager so that boundary kind of got crossed there nevertheless there is strong feeling within the town Charter committee that somehow this has value and there's 33 year old litigation which
everyone points to as precedent in terms of where that boundary Falls and that whether someone can appoint to that um and you know lawyers will line up on either side of that and and um tell you which way to go but that feeling is on
the charter committee that they aren't going to give this up because somehow they feel that gives them power uh on the other hand rld's advice and councel assert that this kind of change isn't isn't allowed because we're
putting staff in rld that reports the general manager and that's the general manager's responsibility the fact is we don't do it this is not what we do and there's nothing against the charter the the Commissioners from recommending or suggesting or offering up someone who
the general manager might consider for the job but it's ultimately the general manager's responsibility for hiring the accountant and and the rmld uh Council and um uh I did look up uh the rule that
people have cited uh a number of times and you know there's a reach where maybe there could be some language inserted in the town Charter that would give the uh Commissioners some authority over that but I think the
better goal might be how can the Commissioners get a resource that they can use to advise them not someone who would be within the organization of Marvel D and I don't know what that language is and I don't think we'll ever
get to a place where we could craft that language um so so those two are are kind of this where that line battle line has been drawn and neither is willing to kind of give up on that
perspective similarly item six uh the Board of Commissioners will approve warrants and payment of all bills and payroll but cross out and shall approve all contracts well we do approve contracts um what is kind of more at
issue is that the contracts have to meet 30b which is a mass requirement for state governments to procure Commodities well we don't really procure a lot of Commodities there's a lot of specialized equipment and the policies and contracts
that I've seen to approv do seem to go through a competitive bid process they do so so really um requiring and they do exempt for power purchases which you okay but but NE but nevertheless this is kind of imposing a procurement
requirement um which is not imposed in 164 and and as although from my limited experience in board we follow a competitive bid process there there are things which we we can't bid that way and don't bid that way and and wouldn't
bid that way so um requiring that they the board en enforce that requirement is challenged um although I think we do do a pretty good job um IEM and am I on track Phil is this all right
so item seven says Municipal light board shall employ an auditor appointed the town of RIT appointed by the town of reading audit committee um and this one is interesting this is crossed out again with the idea that this is uh under the general manager's responsibility but
160 164 uh 56a I think does have a statement about the auditor and it is there is a requirement
all accounts kept all accounts rendered to or kept in the gas or electric plant of any City shall be subject to the inspection of the city auditor or officer having a similar duties and in towns they shall
be subject to the inspection of the Selectmen so even in 164 there is a town auditor which oversees the books and that is what we do well we so so that's the presentation that we do each year right and we do it though that's my point but it's a
presentation not not it's not the audit function it's the presentation of the a audited results the auditor comes in and looks at the looks at the stuff it's not gonna make any difference but just for clarity that function is the presentation that we give to the town of
reading every year and it we are presenting in fact the auditor does the so you he does it he does the presentation of the audited results but the auditor now in our case the auditor is we we use the same auditor that the town does but and that's what
this is not so much of presentation that you see there this is the selection of the auditor it's a small right so so again this is kind of it's a small well it gets to that line again um here state state law says that town auditor will
will audit and well and and then this this says something similar not exactly the same same right so when I was on the the committee I had recommended this that this not be changed correct because I think it's good governance that we have we use the town audit yeah is there
another have Town AIT is that it just a little bit more okay sorry all right so um again check if well I might word Smith it I would not drop that paragraph if we were able
to get into the back and forth uh and then finally um Mr B commissioner shall annual and annual versus uh calendar year um Capital Improvement program was switch the capital budget a little bit
of semantics there but there the lawyer lost a word we gave up three and he only gained two so we saved a little money there doubt it a lot a lot of money has been spent on process rayer money yeah but and then
and then some change in terms of of how the um we communicate back to the towns um and I think this is where V is saying that you know um how how should we communicate with the towns this language was changed that it's the general
manager um but we're talking about political B body reporting back to political bodies it seems like that is a suitable um job for the cab or for the Commissioners to to report back to their
towns on on uh capital projects and finance um that that's certainly not a requirement under anything under 164 that reporting back so that is by no means a requirement um of 164 um that that those
these changes be made uh in um anyways so so you can see um so be did you had my main point was there should just be the recog that the cist right yeah and that that's it right yeah and like said I appreciate
saying but when you start talking about the law and and everything we don't exist until the 20-year agreement right but then it becomes the general manager and the Board of Commissioners that have to feel that we exist so that our input matters and I don't so I can understand
why the charter can't be changed or it' be difficult to change the charter to admit it especially where we're out of town three of four of out the p but um I I think the policies procedures and the 20-year agreement the next time it's signed should be adamantly put in
there what the Cab's role is because I truly believe that it was a um courtesy not a committee and um Phil's been on it long enough to to see that and I think everything you are saying makes all the sense in the world to show that I mean
Wilmington's I think 30 40% of the business or 50% 60 60% of the business but that doesn't mean we can govern what reading does it just means that you know we're fortunate to have like nice rates and reliable energy um zero carbon
little carbon increasingly I wanted that's that goes through the list right Ray that goes to the list so I I I think um unless there are the questions you can see where there's some places where there edits which maybe overedit
the text and you might see where their town would say I don't want all of those edits going forward on the other hand you can see where there are strongly held beliefs in this text uh and a a middle ground is not being sought so
thank thank you I would say thank you very much that was an excellent presentation I just wish we'd had it a year ago because I think that's when we had the memo was existed a year ago it would have been a great conversation to have we could have heard from the cab maybe we could have gotten a piece of cab language we could have put it forward and April May June and and we
could have had maybe this a piece of this but it didn't happen um so in defense yeah I have to defend myself here I'm not attack you're attacking I'm not saying anything about you you are attacking let's be honest I'm saying that we didn't know anything about you're attacking you've attacked me on this at least three or four times a
little out of order I am not out of order go have your say your I basically had nothing to bring back you see all these changes they all got rejected what do you want me to bring back no it's just the fact nothing's changed no Phil it's that they were they were were put forward and we had the the thing that Ray has gone through so nicely we if I
had changes I would have brought them back but there were no changes right but these proposed changes were were commissioned by Greg and existed in February question no no before you do I think before you call the question there was a meeting and I just want to there
was a statement made about whether this is Le legal or not and there is a there first of all there's a new opinion from the town attorney which we don't have and there was a comment made by her at the beginning of the charter committee meeting which is public and I will now play what what she said because there
there's a the referee of this is not me or Greg or Chris or John Coyle or if you're freed even it's the Attorney General's office on whether these things are legal or appropriate there's a person called kelly D dunigan who's the Assistant Attorney General in charge of
the municipal law Unit A kelly gunan uh she's the director of the municipal law unit at the AG's office and IA freed had a conversation and this is what ia freed recounted what you're going to hear is Chris Haley introducing iier freed referring to Kelly of the ago's office
the director of the municipal unit at 50 that's Chris Haley I spoke with KY gunan and um she said that she's not able to give us an official opinion but she's going to look at it so I'm I sent her the charter she's still reviewing it but she did say sort of like informal
we've looked at this at least three times now and have decided each time that the provisions of the charter are consistent with state law and so it would likely take a lot for her office to reach an alternative conclusion um it
doesn't mean they won't but you know she said you know absent anything significant it's unlikely that their their decision will change but the reference to three is hopefully we'll get more feedback from her and her office but as of right now
we're we're still waiting that is the extent of what so that is the only word we have in the Attorney General's office they were asked again for the fourth time in response time third well she said three three times already certain 2003 2014 and 2025 right and the math is
about every 10 years in other words every time we go through this we ask the same question right and and as I said at the beginning in part these are not two state laws fighting each other one is governance right and one is law governing a business correct the
distinction is when when the assertion is made that this conflict with state law or or is in conflict with state law is is not quite the right framing as explained if if that quotation is correct it's that there it's it's not inconsistent with state law the charter and language that they both can coexist
but we don't have the that's I'm just quoting the town attorney quoting the director of the municipal law unit of the agos and it is that opinion which supports the position that the town charter members are taking yeah in terms of not changing things and since they
feel like adopting these changes would take away something from them they're not willing to do that if the Attorney General's office says it's not inconsistent so you can see where they're coming from which is a point I really do want to make so I think we should frame the motion as pick which of
those one you do want to read it as approve disapprove or abstain and then read the motion with one of those words I would suggest either approve or disapprove and then we can vote on whichever of those formulations um I'd like to read so I'd like feedback in terms of which that is
it's not my choice well why don't you start with I would like to hear your recommendation all right um my recommendation would be disapprove of the language in the charter
because I think it sets us up for the false understanding that somehow we have gained power which we do not I think the charter language needs to change I don't think it necessarily needs to change in all the ways that was presented but we're not really given the
opportunity to change it I mean in an all nothing scenario we aren't allowed to optimize it so I think there are some things like the audit like not approving contracts um at the minimum that that I
would I would like to see the charter retain on the other hand thinking that somehow we have power over the the accountant or in-house counsel I think that is misplaced and and I think there needs to be language which
supports the commission and the cab in h in getting a resource getting somebody who could advise us uh on an issue that supports us not limits the general manager and I'm not sure the framing of that but I don't think this
language does that and I don't think we're going to get an opportunity to do that so if you want to read your motion as with disapprove read your motion with that we let me just add one more thing why disapprove as opposed to the other approve would
say I buy into that risk and obstain doesn't really kind of get strong enough to the fact that we there's that it's okay so that's that's what can I you want him to read it or com I read
it sure why don't you read your motion we'll second it and then we can have a last round of comments and then we've been on this for a long time we have I knew well take some time which is why we had other issues before the running time CH committee is likely to move to uh
approve section 3.5 Municipal Light Board of Commissioners without changes to the current text if this occurs the mici Board of Commissioners directs its representative on the town Charter committee to disapprove uh from um from such a vote just disapprove such a vote disapprove U
from such a vote I'll second that okay so what any further discussion so my my one concern was saying disapprove and and taking a position of of flatly not approving is based on this conversation that we just had and going
through all these details we don't have a fin version of changes that we all agree we would like to see if we had that you know the cab input that we agree is is appropriate and and legal if we have what you say we should keep if
we have what we say we should delete and we all felt confident that and we presented that forward to them aligned and they said no then to me I was I would disapprove but we haven't we didn't do that so yeah you know that
that process didn't happen I'm I'm not judging why or why not just you know it's clear they weren't going to want to change it anyway but my perspective would be either approve because we did not present
um a line set of changes or abstain because we didn't essentially finish our piece of the process by giving them our approved I hear where you're coming from and and if I I think Bill will understand if if there was an interest
in the other side for engaging in a discussion then then maybe you know proposing some modified text would have been the way to go but I was hoping they even have a discussion with them
about even some minor changes and and Phil knows even the right um small changes were were going to be accepted so you know it it really is an up and down sort of thing um I would like to just kind of seconding what Pam said that all we've done is
this up or down on John Coyle and the removal of board powers and centering them in the general manager citing chapter 164 when I think with a year of of process we could have we could have looked at some of those as you say Ray we could have looked at some cab stuff and maybe there would have been some other things other than these two things
like how do we interact with you know like Greg does a lot of good stuff with the towns should is he formally is he does he have a formal role in helping town buildings there could have been other ways we could have taken it we could have mentioned the climate law what are we going to do under that so but like Pam said we Den did that and so
and and to only say up or down on this I think is the wrong framing like we should have had a process we probably could have come up with some things we could have agreed on but we didn't and because we didn't I have to say that I will I can only say no I'm not I don't I don't I don't disapprove because we didn't put something forward it doesn't
mean you're not right about would you prefer a different verb then no you can put the verb in you've made the motion and it's been seconded so now but I'll but and out of no disrespect to either you or Phil I will vote against it because I would have wanted to have the process and I think we would have probably had pieces of this pieces of
cab and pieces of other things that might have gone in if if you were going to dis G to vote against the word disapproved would you not would you vote for the word abstain um well we already have a motion on the floor right so we have well the motion GNA be an amendment
to the motion I mean sure ask me to pick a word I picked word and now you're sorry you're right it's fine do you want to reword it as obain and it if I I would rather present the view of the board
then then then not and the board wants to abstain that we did not they were did not invite us into engage in a process that's I don't think that's quite true it did not Happ we could we could have as a board done something I I don't know I don't know if that's true what I hear
is that regardless of whether we did it or not I agree we we we could have done it but would they have even listened no they they would not listen that is I don't I don't think that's true because they were asking what what are you what does your board want us to do is what the members were saying at the last
meeting what do your board suggesting and and we didn't have an answer for that because the board never had a process that voted on anything so I respect we disagree with that Mr chair when did our board all right
we're deviating we're deviating from the motion we're getting away from it um and and given we're one member short I would rather have a 40 vote than than a 3-1 okay um so I revise the motion as follows the reading time Charter committee is likely to move to approve
the section 3.5 Municipal life Board of Commissioners without changes to the current text if this occurs the municipal lifeboard of Commissioners directs its representative on the town Charter committee to abstain from such a vote yeah I will accept that as part of second I will also accept that and I'll
I think I also any discussion I think I'm I'm probably will I will vote for that seems we have a second yeah I I Che I accepted as part of the second okay as so it's it's now part of the main motion that's fine all right um then further
discussion all in favor okay motion carries 40 thank you very much Ray that was a great summary okay now the the real of the night sorry Megan for could have had dinner or a nap or something
it's a fascinating discussion I wouldn't go that far hopefully this discussion is go a little faster um so there we put a lot of stuff in the slide I'm not
going to go over every single line but just want to kind of walk through y right let take a second okay so um the board approved our 2025 budget
last fall and then based on that we do have to change the rates for 2025 that's what we're doing now and before we explain what we're proposing here I want to reemphasize that we are in the process of doing a a cost of service study for for the sort of for the sort
of the as the foundation for our um base distribution rid design and um so next year when we meet about 2026 rids will be presenting something pretty probably
different but for 2025 rate changes we are using the consistent the same kind of methodology that we've been using I think since 2018 and 2019 so um so maybe most of you already know how that that is done so I'm not going to go into a
whole lot of details and this slide is really just talking about two main things the first two sections are really just the policy and the goal context of setting rates one is our own mission so we have to balance the three components
of our mission which is reliability low cost and um the obligation to meet the non-carbon target yes so Megan you said that the budget was set in late form
yeah right and and this is this is the procedure we have right I mean normally in a business you set your Revenue goals you know your expenses and you set your Revenue goals based on rates or whatever parameters you have rates here determine
our revenues right so we set the budget in Fall a late fall and we are adjusting the rates six months ahead later so my question is that you know we made a budget it had Revenue
projections and what so how do so the rates that you're going to present I'm just telegraphing the question up front so that you know at the end of the day you want to make sure you have enough Revenue to cover costs right I mean that
that's what we want to make sure that's pretty much so how different are the rates from what was considered at the time that the budgets were made yeah and what are the implications of such rates on the revenue plan and you know I'm sure you've dealt with it but you know
if this requires any changes in expenses you know and operations so I just want to frame it in terms of looking at it as a revenue issue and making sure there's enough money in the operations that's so so I'm sure you'll answer it but I I I
wanted to frame in that way yeah thank you're you can make the presentation uh yes the budget that you approved is basically the revenue requirement that's the foundation for our rates that we proposing here yeah so are the numbers
much different from what no not a a lot we literally looked at this together this option sure yes thank you um just remind me what we approved last in no in November it was what what percentage change well percentage is a relative
term right but if we're talking so want to get to that first do we want to get I think the key I mean I understand all the other slides like the front we've been through the other content so I'm just trying to it's the
punchline yes so for the the budget that you approved for the uh base part uh the budget was 45.3 Million yeah so to question budget to budget was 5.4% okay
and and and what do you what we're proposing to collect for the base is 44.6 that's very close she she's asking percentages yeah so it's 5.4 and 5.4 okay in terms of base now the total is so um power supply is variable this this
will come out in the discussion she brings power supply is adjusted every month yeah so the total average is six 6.3% but that includes a piece but the key thing that that V's asking about is revenue which is the base budget which
as Megan just mentioned is roughly about $45 million that's consistent it's within several hundred, between what we proposed and what we budgeted what we proposed yeah okay that's more of a fixed cost than the power supply because power supply changes every day right
yeah basically ma okay so okay so does that mean I don't need to talk about this slide anymore well not just you should okay good should just all right yeah um so the other piece of the policy Conta the second one is um there's
changes at the federal level but at the state level at least for this year the the climate Target is not changing so that's also the big context for that for us the the third and the fourth um sections are really about but you know the third one is really about the power
supply cost and the budget and the rates that we collect it's it's it has been volatile and it's it will continue to be volatile so we we did build cushions and we have contingencies around it so we we're in a good spot in terms of you
know collecting the revenue for that piece and also we make adjustment every single month um so so that that's that's how we are kind of addressing this kind of volatility of that piece and the last part is you know all these major Investments are the main driver for our
base distribution rate increases of because of these Investments um next oh the next one next one you've seen this um showing up you've seen this many times so this is like specifically how
we set rates and then what you can see uh on the chart you know the the four items in that little box those are all power supply cost budget and rates and the operating costs and the like contribution we make to the towns they
are part of the base rates I'm going to move on to the next one this is just like the sort of the conclusion of all the rates that we changed and then you know I'll go to the Chart first just in general I think you already know this
most of M's prices rates are lower than the three big companies in the state and it's the same for reading um in thisal line the question on this on the chart on the right hand side is that from January is that an annual average what
what's where's that data from that's the current the rates that so the for reading the rald that's our proposed rate okay and then for those three companies those are their current rates they tend to change every six months Meg
these guys are lower me is lower yeah you are oh not saying were ler than you but our Capital budgets like this year is like 12 million 40 40 million for Capital Improvements that 40 million is Capital Improvements
right um what else do I want to say here yeah that's that's pretty much it like you know the monthly increase we already talked about that and now I look at the next one I think maybe residential rate is um people care about that more and people react to that that more so here's
the sort of the breakdown of the different items on the on the bill and then the first three so that these are colored kind of boxes the first three are related to the you know distribution the base base part of the rates and then
the next three colored are the um power supply rates and then the last one is the discount for early payment so I don't know if you have any question I'm sure you've seen this a lot um so if you look at the kind of notes on the right
side where we say base cost you know where um the proposed rates are about 5.5% um so that's likely to happen if there's no major change to our to the actual kilowatt hour sales against our
forecast right now we're forecasting 650,000 megawatt hours so that's going to be at that level if no major changes and then for the power supply side even though the percentage is higher but like I said it's going to be adjust it every single month and and it will it can go
up and down and you know last year I think actually was lower it was lower yeah it was more mild particularly in the fall and this this year was particularly cold yeah the first two months has have been cold we don't know about the summer yet
so we depend so so sorry um ask you a question um are I you know I see on the chart right that we're we're predicting a fuel cost right increase of
3.9% right and that and that's based on on on what projection you know especially on um you know I I I think potentially fuel cost could go down you know o over the next course of the next
year you know so so where is the fuel increase coming from so yeah yeah Bob that's that's basically the current projections so we took a snapshot as of uh two weeks ago of
forward price curve forward price curve is up significantly um for the year 2025 I think you're your your suggestion which um we want which we are hopeful for is that after we get through this
cold snap the Ford price curve will drop down um but that basically is is the mid-February Ford price curve that's driving those numbers and as Megan mentioned we adjust these um each month because they are intended to be pass through again there's no we don't RL
does not mark up fuel um transmission or capacity and also correct consideration is just like we we don't know the exact kilowatt our sales so that's almost like the cushion we built and another element to it you all know I think we we briefed
you that the transmission cost increased 20% this year we did not increase 20% of the PC ppct charge so it's a little bit of a kind of allocation of that cost in all right I'm gonna move to the next
one y uh this is just another sort of a summary of all these major rate classes and what the current you know what's the proposed uh kind of a bill impact um based on sort of the average or median
usage of kilowatt hours the percentage change I don't know if you have any questions but it's great yeah the only thing is I asked checked with Greg also was in terms of time of use yeah so it's us it's usually helpful to know what the peak and off peak rates would be yeah so
so you've got for residential and for industrial if you could just somehow indicate you know what is the off PE what is the peak rate because here you used an average number right so you well it wasn't it was actually C so not an
average but it was basically the weight yeah was the weighted weighted average right in those examples um so I didn't actually pull up the right my website so we have it on there it's but but you're right on the website shows on the website it shows
and it shows going back a few months right yeah actually it goes back many in fact if you want it goes back many many years on the website but yeah the current the current six months are on the website for time of use yeah for time of use for both industrial and so so now I just want to know going forward
in terms of The Proposal what would the difference be so um so there's a we do a calculation between the two um and it's driven by a bunch of so we have not changed the percentage between the two in terms of what we don't change the the difference between the on Peak and the
off peak Bas yeah we just basically take what what the what the actual costs are and we basically run it through a spreadsheet for lack of a better answer um I can pull up the so the ratio between on Peak and off peak is not changing for this time for this year's
uh rate change but then because we apply the total cost with a increase right percentage increase so that kind of kind of Cascades into both the off peak and the on Peak rate he's just he's trying to get a sense of what the difference is and I don't have what I'm trying to do is see
if there is a signal here you can use to influence behavior okay so I'm trying to see if you if you can use the if you can use the rate making rate rate communic rate change communication process to
also encourage time of use adoption so I back I look at the data on here and I interpret it to to show me the benefit of that by looking at for residential a versus the presential time of use right there there that that that weighted
average number so 161 versus 139 if I do time of use I'm going to pay a weight at average of 139 versus if I don't I'm going to pay an a 161 so that is like a 20% I'm just doing
yeah between 10 and 20 yeah something like that in terms of it yeah but but if I know the rates like you know so I was asking Dave you know he says most of his stuff is off peak right well it's because that's what we do at our house yeah right maybe there's but depends what you point being like on average
people are going to save somewhere between 10 and 20% by going with time AB use and possibly then more if you're being more proactive about that right so pam pam brings up the very key piece which is before you get into the difference there's a clear benefit of
being time of use and then just to answer your question so in February um the off PE fuel charge was 4.4 cents and on Peak fuel charge was 11 or 10.8 so it's a it's a significant difference it's a significant difference so it's
it's worth commun the ratio you're talking about so there's value in communicating that ratio carries over to the 2025 rates it is yeah that's what I think that's what you're saying right so yes answer your question so as we so the one thing that we talked about many
times is we have set up the rates for time of use we encourage it but we're not massively promoting it because it requires different meter capability which we have not yet installed and so part of capital number is high because we're doing the Ami and we're doing the Ami replacement program so when we get
so a year and a half from now um when when we're near the Final Phase of getting everything to have time of use and beers we're going to P aggressively on toou but on that note uh we are concluding the MDM project tomorrow yes and then we're going to have hourly data
and we're going to do Shadow building which means we're going to inform like you said Educational Opportunity we're going to inform the customers if you are on T you this is what pay yeah yeah see see see fam if you look at the numbers like 16 versus 18.68%
[Music] that rate um table on the website is the most up toate and like I said the ratio is about three three three versus one it's the same for the 2025 yeah so so that it's it's a more powerful if you can if you actually communicate that
it's a it's but but two steps it's beyond time of use and maybe you don't even have to change a thing and you're still going to get a benefit right um or take even more proactive and you know be like Dave and do your
laundry at midnight or or whatever you're doing and it's it's up to seven so yeah right yeah and I think that would be the thing to present to customers like hey you're doing this if you change this much and use tou but not just tell them hey you could save money
with t you're both trying change exactly right yeah one thing to remember though about time of use is is when when you get home and you're at typical 8 to 5
and you come home you turn your lights on right I we want to promote it but at the same time it's a penalty for folks who live that 8 to5 lifestyle right it it it it's it's we always need to be aware of that and you know if you can
take advantage of time of use that's great but many people are not able to take advantage of that because of their lifestyle and the one thing that I'm I'm always afraid of is it's a it's a penalty right and and you you know it we
need to consider that that how many people live and come home in our home and need to use their appliances and turn things on at five o'clock right you can opt into it but we always need to be aware you know be
aware of that as you know as one of our rates you know it should always be something that is ever present in our mind yeah so that's a great Point that's why I think we want to do like a whole year of education do the shadow building
and then when we do have the Ami meters have the so entire tou new toou rate design it's an opt out if it doesn't fit their lifestyle then they can opt out of this rate and just have the regular rate and as Bob said as my arm will be home
on his hat from 5 s I'll wear that I don't need to turn the lights on until least 7 o'cl I can baloney sandwiches until 7 o' and then then you can have your hot meal okay um so can I just let me just make sure I'm really clear in terms of
the the rates that we're saying we're going to vote for today are no different than the ones we voted in November is that no we didn't is that higher we didn't vote for well we didn't vote for them but the estimate was 6%
sorry we set the budget yeah at a certain expectation 6% was because I i' set my budget for the town yeah based on a 6% increase which is now a 6.7% increase and I've already presented to the finance committee so that7 I don't have in my budget okay so it is not the
exact same okay well yeah and what you're really voted on is the base rates so the rate she so you're not voting on power supply no I got that okay but I just want to make sure the difference between what we vot voted for before which thank you for correcting me was
the budget at a certain rate expectation the rate that we're now voting for are slightly different but not significantly different than totally it's about the same yep um they don't oh these are well one
one point that that I I'm sorry for keep interrupting it's hard to jump in but you know the the the main fact you know our Revenue went up correct correct yes Revenue went up now we're
increasing rates right by 6% and we we talked about a rate increase before and I think my my gut feel on this is you know we're making more money yet we're increasing prices you know we we have some
anticipated cost increases but you know does that translate to 6% you know that you know every year we go you know 5% 6% 5% 6% that that's significant over time right that that that's one one thing you
know doesn't have to be a 6% increase the last time we went up we we we we overestimated we scaled it back I'm I'm a big believer that you know we should go up in incremental if we need more increase more but don't don't increase
for the sake of increasing you know that that that it's one thing need to be always cognizant we have low rates let's let's keep them low it makes it attractive is there any wiggle room or Bob do you have a suggestion of a of a
I'm just where does that go you know it ties to the budget so so Bob we haven't been doing five or six percent for the past several years and we can give you that history but we're like we we we try to give you here instead instead of doing budget to budget because if we were going to do the budget to budget we
would have been roughly 3.3% which is what which and I'm not saying 3. cents not anything but what we decide to do this year is is again what the customers care about is what the actual bill is each month that's what they pay with they don't pay with percentages they pay with dollars and correct your Point's
well taken you know last year we had forecasted roughly um almost 100 $155 an average bill it ended up working out to be $152 in average bill for a whole bunch of reasons um but the primary reason and as Meg mentioned it's tied to
the actual um our actual cost times the actual kilowatt hours we sold which which you'll see in a few minutes it's tied to weather and it's also tied to power supply which is the biggest variable so now so we would have done 155 to 161 and I can go back and run
that calculation but we're trying to really be transparent to the customers to say your average bill and that's why I put the residential one back in place is going to be roughly $10 a month higher this year than last year that's what we forecast but it could be
less $9.56 would be super helpful to see what our rate increases were over the last several years what's that percentage right the percentage number you know because bills are higher percentage from the last three
years right and and and now is there a ballpark of what they were yeah that um they're in the range so of what what the budget to budget was no what what what what was was our
act what would you say was our actual percentage of increase on your average bill last year if it was 3% you know economically or you know if we could handle that let's do a 3% a lower
increase you know again I think a six I think a six% is a significant jump and Bob just clarify are you talking about rate increase percentage or Bill increase percentage I think that quite different it depends on how many kilowatt hours they use if you look at
the last couple years we had shock ther shock therapy when we I think one year 10 10% or 12% and then we talked about rate stabilization Bob brought it up and we talked and we came way down so again two months ago three months ago we're talking about 6% now we're at 6.77% Call
It Whatever um and we're not talking about rate stabilization so so close but I agree with what Bob's saying is we were way off those other two years in and then came drastically down from that 10% 12% and we're really in
the we're ravaging about 5 percent and again key driver of this and Bob alluded to it earlier it's what's really going to happen um to the Ford price curve of the open market that's going to have a huge variable in terms of what the what this really looks out what this really
works out to be well I that Ahad from like a couple years ago it's it's really what we really should be looking at comparing year on year what we're really approving is the distribution charge because that's what's covering that's what's we should I'm not to say ignore
the power supply increases but those are always passrs and those always fluctuate up or down and they either help or they hurt um what we really should be really comparing so we have a very good understanding what we're actually approving and what we're actually doing to the rates is just looking at the distribution charge because that's that
does not change that is locked in that's not variable so that those top three calls really what we should be focusing on um year on year if you want to see what we've done over the past few years we ought to look at what we've been approving in that area and how much we're increasing their rates there because the power supply the last two
years have helped us and this year could hurt us because of what's happened in January and February so I I I I think from a a rate and to get a good idea of what we're actually approving and what we've been approving over Years and we're actually kind of contributing to the customer and what they're paying is
really those top three line items because the other stuff's passed through and we it's out of our control good point so what is that what is that $4.72 what's the percentage it's what 5.5% of the distribution charge overall bill it's
like 3% so you can look at it you can look at it two ways you can look at we're increasing the rate that we control by 5 and a half% but right now based on what we think the power supply is going to do it's about a 3% increase overall but
we're it's two numbers or maybe we need to look at both um but but Jason I think at the end of the day customer looks at the total right yeah us Bo trying understand what our impct right that's what we just mentioned to Pam if we want to
understand what our impact is we got to look at that because that's our impact that's how the control cost that's the control stuff that's the stuff we actually control we can actually see we have visibility and that we we know is gonna it's actually going to be there um that's what we need to really be focusing on and the power SP it's nice
to have the visibility sense to see and compare of what we think it might do um but in reality we're really just approving the top three rows so just so given what Bob said and I think everybody's sensitive to um the cost
increases we're also coming off to very cold months where customers bills were pretty high um Le if I look at my own it was definitely shocking because we you know just used to heck of a lot more um energy but is it do we need the full
amount of this 5.5% on the base cost given the fact that in January and February the the volume was up significantly yeah we're proposing to change this rade April 1 first so there's yeah so if come down really we lost a quarter
yeah okay at the end of the day the answer to your question is no this fits the budget okay and and Jason's right you can look at numbers every different way we're trying to be as clear and transparent the only thing that you're really voting on is customer charge and distribution energy and and your Energy Efficiency
will now changing and and we've left that this year yeah we we we're going to update you on the all the new programs that we're having and if it comes to like okay there's a lot of uptake on the program we might propose increasing the E eecc charge but this year we not not
right now yeah so so Pam brings up a great point and when you when you're talking about your electric bill being you know $600 a month because you're all electric or 700 you know a 6% increase is is significant on on on that charge
right so that that's kind of the I know we're using an average bill to look at it but if you are electrified it's it's a it's a more intense increase right and and you're going to you're going to see it it's going to be you know $40 range
you know you like wow jumped up $40 so on the flip side because we're talking about April which is generally a low period it's you know it should still be significantly better than January February bills right correct be less
than the on pay includ even even adding the rate the rate increase into it and we look at those I mean look at all of those elements in terms of our Our intention is to dampen the radical up and down that power supply would
do by using we have a fuel Reserve that we that we make adjustments um small adjustments each each uh each month are we try and dampen that well I would say year on year April 2024 versus April 2025 excluding power supply you just
paid $4.72 more this April could to last April that's thank you Jason that's exactly where trying to get across it's $5 on a $155 Bill we talk about percentages but it's five bucks so then why are we going up to 6.7 instead of
5.5 6.7 where are you like I'm looking at the rates like but municipality was 6.7% increase right and again because I have a large budget for we just added to all electric buildings in town another a million kilowatts so why would it be a
5.5% increase page let me see back where see it municiple c um 6.7% increase that's including the power supply but there's not a breakout the slid includes Well yeah if you want we
can we can so in the back we can go and look at each one of those um we looked at each one of these different categories and and back to what Megan was mentioning um and back to the uh request that is part of the goals for the for the team in 2025 is to look very
carefully across all these different things which we do anyways yeah and so we looked at the cost we looked we took a whole bunch of of uh considerations into um how we allocated the various costs and how we move the various costs
between those key rate classes um you'll see that industrial T tou went up the highest right and that was intentional right but you also look at the the industrial to rate which is 13.71% is basically a commercial rate it's the
way it's set up and the only difference um is that it doesn't have taxes tied to it so there's no sales tax by to it we tried to the best of our ability to dampen the increases where we where we thought it was appropriate given the cost structure again back to the earlier slide these rates are tried to tie are
meant to tie to the cost to serve those classes of customers yeah but if you look and they you you look at three months ago so you look at residential a we talked about 6% increase with 6.3 so bring it down to six 6.2 bring it down to six 7.0 for the commercial the seven
in the industrial 7.9 but then you look at the other two rates you could be be at six so you know two months ago we felt that the number was 6% and and two months later three months later whatever it's SP we're now over the 6% which isn't a lot of money a lot of difference
to change so why couldn't we look at it and find a way to get to 6 so what would be the change if we if we instead of 6.7 the board said make at six the effect I'm just saying even like the residential have to allocate that to the other R classes then you're moving
because we so so um what we are responsible to do is to the best of our ability allocate the cost across the rate categories so in terms of us saying we want to favor one class over another is is not consistent
with our responsibility but what Bob said earlier was revenues are up yet we're increasing so if revenues are up revenues are up because the cost right because but that's what I'm saying so if you if you you may not make as much but you the rate pay doesn't pay more like I
I guess isn't there a balance there where there is a balance there that's a great question Dennis and that's why at the very beginning we indicated and Jason mentioned it as well um our budget of 2025 is intended to
have no debt and we have no debt and so we are we are incurring now costs we've we've been saving up for cost but we have to also make sure so this is this is driven primarily by cash it does impact the income statement but if a
knows intimately well this is a cash business and so we have significant multi-million dollars worth of Investments that we will be writing checks for this year for the Ami system for the Ami replacement system for the substation for land and for the initial
basis of the solar PV projects so while we have some buffer you know in our you know we're we're basically from the budget Our intention is to be in 2025 um our our net income is going to be rate of return is going to be about 6% we can go up to 8% we're not there
but we can but that's where we targeted so we want to be careful that we don't end up in a situation where we don't have enough cash to cover all these and that's how we look there's a lot of stuff that goes in behind the scenes to bring this to hey there's eight numbers that you guys are voting on 10 the eight% though I've always question
because all I do is and it's in every business I like to increase my overhead and I can make eight% more if I reduce my overhead my expense less so like you said you can make up to 8% so I hire more people if my overheads more then I can make eight% of that right so all
that can keep going up based on you can run the business all sorts of ways and the way and the way we run this business 8% but plant not not like you can't add people and increase your 8% it's you have to increase your Capital
assets increase your assets yeah again this is not a you know back Tois Point earlier we we run this as a commercial business but we run as a commercial business with a lot of and we are not highly regulated but there are a lot of constraints in terms of what we can and can't do our real focus in terms of
running the business is to make sure we keep as much downward pressure on the rates but more specific the monthly bills all the different rate classes pay but to make sure that we make the proper Investments and as we've talked about over a while we are basically we have specific projects that we're working
through and we're also you know back to what Megan put in there it was a small point but it was a big point which is right now we are still preparing for electrification with a doubling of load by 2050 and so we're slowly we can't just you know intimately well and everybody knows this you can't just say
hey look we're going to build a new substation in one year um there's preparation in the all of these things so to answer your question um we designed and we made all the rate adjustments to properly allocate the cost that we anticipate making or
incurring and that goes back to the budget right and the budget the reality is the key number back to your question is roughly $45 million right you know the whole the whole Revenue was about $120 million but that 27% roughly that Megan had in that chart indicates that's
the base Revenue everything else floats everything everything else floats based on load kilow sales and actual cost incurred and I just want want add one thing you talk about Municipal School and Industrial all these three-way
classes have demand charges why because the the the so they they have higher power demand that's actually what's driving the capital investment so I would say I mean I don't want to make a statement right now because we haven't finished doing cost of service study but
if we do that so right now just look between all these rate classes I think those three are actually for whatever reason historic low the rates have been too low I don't want to make it sound like I'm I'm kind of making that statement but but I I I
will present like the the final cost of service study to kind of prove what what's actually causing which part of the cost but just looking at all these rate classes that's what we've been saying because when we look at our rates so MWI does the comparison for all the
MPS and the IUS our commercial and Industrial rates are way lower than a lot of so I'm not saying we want to just increase rates for these rate classes but yeah then again I I just added I'll be adding two electric we just went live
with one with the other one in September all electric buildings million kilowatts and my demand charge my demand charge is gonna be huge because everybody's gonna walk in at the same time every morning turn every switch on and we need to talk about Peak demand manag so when you look at that this could really affect me even
more than the 6% because my demand charge is going to be higher because everyone starts at the same time every morning everybody goes home at the same time every night but my demand charge is g to be boom every light on in the building at 7: a. we give Dennis a million for a battery yeah I gotta put a battery back up really we have we got
the we have programs for this right but you know it's just every Community is going to start doing this we're talking about building a school and you is talking about building the school it's going to be all electric um those demand charges what everyone walks in the school everything comes on because all the people are coming in
that's really going to be an effect on people's numbers so so that's the exact context of what we've been discussing for a while in terms of revising our Peak or Shred the peak program because the current program is not very effective in terms of changing load on the residential basis and most of the
commercial industrial buildings they have no interest now in your case you will so one of the things that we do want do is figure out um and and this is part of the reason why we we moved to the MDM system so and Megan's mentioned the shadow billing stuff we're trying to and and and the Ami replacement he is
hey here he is we wanna we want to make a program that allows us to um at the end of the day help you guys be as efficient as you possibly can but we're still in the early stages of that yeah when you look at shave the peak and everything um schools schools now don't
they're not 7 to 3:30 anymore there's there're 600 in the morning for K programs till 10 at night 10 night and they're running seven days a week and all summer yeah the the days of um schools being an eight hour day long G A
gone so um when I when we talk about the like special needs programs I can't just drop the temperatures down and when you look at 14 Air Handlers on a high school I can't shut down parts of the building because of how it's split up and run so that means engineering has to change in
the future to allow me to say I'm going to shut off the top two floors completely if the programs don't run that so it's not as easy to say sh shed the peak in the municipality world because I I live you you don't have a lot of and so that's part of so the other elements in terms of why we look
at Shred the peak our Focus has been and the batteries are a good example um that transmission cost so as Megan mentioned that transmission cost um the the transmission rate is up 20% between 2024
and 2025 so back to the suggest and how can we absorb part of that we tried to absorb part of that and not push all of that on we we're supposed to but we try to absorb a little bit of that at the end of the day the message is we are much more efficient in terms of managing our peaks with utility assets such as
batteries and generators um and that's why we're making the investments in in the 20 megawatts you know we're going from five megawatts to 20 megawatts in the next 12 months is to is to create that leverage so that we can push it again not single out single out any individual group but take that entire um
transmission uh cost in the total budget which this year is about $23 million and trying to dampen that down and get it back down to sub 20s that's what we're so at the end of the day our real view is that we are going to be as aggressive as we possibly can and learn from as many people as we can
in terms of how to prompt and encourage customer Behavior but our view is that currently is that the real Leverage is utility assets to drive those Peaks down during the peak hours and we're actually and and the batteries is a is a perfect example of that strategy and that'll push that push everybody down so when we
when we sit here and present these rates it's not like hey we don't really care you know you guys know we're we're making Investments to manage the overall cost structure um so I hope that helps no I appreciate it like I said it's just a matter of um the reason we're all here is to keep an
eye the rates for all of it and you guys as well I'm not taking that from anyone um but every year we start off at a high number and Bob goes what's what about the rate stabilization fund how can we look at it and we always come down and this year we're coming in and we're not coming down and we're going live with it in four weeks that's my only well yeah
but just In fairness right if if we do what we did last year you we basically said last year was a three and a half I think 3.3% change and if we were to compare budget to budget and back to Jason's Point we'd be the same number all right now I'm not saying 3% is nothing but you guys understand you know
we are you know our cost structure labor being a key piece of it right it there is a there's a natural increase so I think we're doing a good you know our focus is to try and make all of our actions not just our customers more efficient but us more efficient um but but the other element is the real
leverage so that's the operating cost which is the nut that we're talking about the real leverage however is to be as aggressive as we can in terms of the power supply and we have again weather has been in our favor right but also the things that we've been doing over the past few years have put us in favorable
light um to to keep the downward pressure on our on our power supply cost which is the key driver and again all I'm saying is there's there's multiple things that we do on ongoing basis you know the message that you guys are are communicating to to the leadership team
is you know we need to be as aggressive as we can in terms of keeping the upward pressure on our cost down and since we are an up for profit that means we keep you know we keep downward pressure on rates there there is only upward pressure on rates but to dampen that the magnitude of that upward pressure makes
sense yeah are we uh are we ready for a vote or is there any requests for changes or defs on this or only I'm sorry there is one small change um when you guys get to it put motion but I I put in the email
last night but the renewable thank you V the renewable Choice writer so we've did some clean up on the renewable CH Choice writer it doesn't affect any dollar value it's just technical cleanup but we need your approval on that as well as the these other core rates um so that we can properly submit those to the mpu
so the motion so the motion would before yeah yeah we always I always go back to revenue and I I know we're allowed to make x amount of profit based on our based on Capital assets Capital assets
correct we're at 6% right now of that that's what you said so we're at 6% now if we stay at 6% right that's that's good I mean our our mission right our mission is rates right that's what one of them our mission is
reliability in in in yes right in that order reliable low cost noncarbon in that or yeah so so in in that you know if we stay at six% right and we can maintain that 6% Target and and maintain
it not grow it but maintain it you know as we we we doing two massive projects right now substation with doing Ami and land and again they're in the budget they have you know that's those are things we budgeted y we have but you're
right Ami and and and substation those are those are two big ones right now yeah we paid they're paid for project well we're committed to we haven't wrri the checks for all way yet well but we have money in the bank to process those checks right $38 million no we don't we don't
we don't have all the cash in the bank so we have $28 million of unrestricted cash yes and we will spend probably $30 million this year on those two projects cash so then then it comes back to us to decide you know at a certain point that
we're going to need to bond to get to get that put those things that we you know cost debt cost right so multiple things going on yeah but you know our budget previously had said we're we're going we're capable of doing
this um my my fear always is that that you know and again it when we go up 6.2% or or seven and I appreciate you you got to do that study because it it it's gonna it's gonna tell us a lot right who are the right customers to be
charging more to because we right now we just don't know we don't know but we need to get better get get better correct be updated yeah up updated right so who's who who would we who should be paying the the proper share or based on based on what we're doing but you know
we we come in and I 10 and we come down we we live with something we know it was three last year know can we live with like you're saying was 3.3% was the so what I'm telling you is if you want to look at um back to
Jason's point the base load change versus the total bill it was mid threes last year it's mid threes this year Okay so mid3 why with the with these rates these rates equate to Mid threes that's what
I'm trying to tell you if you want if you you can run numbers anywhere you want we're trying to we're trying what we're really trying to focus on is what you know the customers at the end of the day they pay the bill with dollars so what's the difference between this year
and last year and it's not just budget to budget it's what they really paid last year versus what we expect they expect to pay this year so if you leave power supply where it is they'll spend $5 or 72 or they'll spend roughly $5
doll more a month 472 versus last year each month me that's that's that's um Apples to Apples comparison right and that $5 or $4.72 out of$ 150 $161 bill is 3 point some odd perc we
can run the numbers real quick so what I'm sharing with you is um we hear clearly the pressure and the desire and we feel it too right or actually this budget is actually $600,000 lower in what we forecast and
back to Megan's comment we made our best estimate in terms of what the actual load is going to be for the year but if we assume the load estimate that we made for the year will be at um $ 44.6 million rather than the budget which is $ 45.3 million now we think
that that we will not spend all the money that we have in the budget so we won't need all of that and worst case if it ends up being more extreme we have reserves so we do have the rate stabilization and we will come to you because that number our Target is roughly six million it's hovering around
7.4 million that's because of interest that has been approved to it we don't put we don't put anything into it or take anything out of it on a on a annual accordly basis and like to make a decision last time we did that we took $1.6 million out of it again on in 2021 we hav many Chang it so we
have we have the ability for cash if we want into trouble but we're already pushed you know back to the Vex comment can we put downward pressure on it we have but we're trying to be very prudent you don't want to end up in a situation where you are short cash because this is a cash business you are you driving it
wanting to ask for a haircut on these rates at this point that that's where I was I was getting but that's why talking and and yeah you know no and Bob the tradeoff always is like you could you could set it to zero right you could set
everything to zero and then you say what am I going to give up right I mean that's that's so you always have that conversation that's that's budget process but okay yeah that you know that means we're taking light bums off yeah no no so so
so I come back so from a question of process if we set a budget right so if this meets that budget it's okay if if it was overshooting the budget it's something you think about so so so you think you should be thinking about rates when you set the budget right so because
the budget talks about activities that you need to do right and Staffing you need to build so so you're thinking of an organizational capability and goals you want to achieve and so that was my question so that's why I asked what is
the what is the rate you need to meet that budget right and if this is that so if you if you are going to reduce the rate you're going to reduce the scope of what you want RM to do right so so so I think that that that's the way so it
just can't be a rate discussion and not a scope discussion it has to both 100% 100% but it just sometimes we we always aim high right and what can we live with that that make sure and again I I always goes back to how much revenue we generate
right and if we're generating more Revenue that mean last year we were more efficient or what what of those factors were um we take that and do we say well that that was beneficial how do we translate that back into this rate
increase that says all right instead of 6.3 is it five you know is you know are these the right numbers for again I everything goes up we all know that right everything goes up but how much it goes up is important
right totally agree um and so we're basically looking at a mid five so if you want to just do Bas rate stuff we in the mid FES and I think there's a general consensus what's the what's the general consensus of the inflation right
here three and a half 4% okay I'm I'm I'm at the same I suspect it'll be higher than that but that's all right that's great even makes it more challenging so and and we have some significant so again the financial like
we we look at the financials every week and not just you know what power supply is but what our cast position is what the forecast is relative to kilowatt hour sales Etc so these numbers are not just hey it feels good no no but I want again you guys are part of the audience
but if anybody's playing back at this session I want the rest of the organization to know there's a significant amount of forecasting of cash flow right because it again cash flow is the critical piece that's how we pay every bill right and we are by La we have to
pay all of our bills so and we're in a we are doing a great job in terms of managing cash so back to that 4% we also mentioned as you pointed out we have some significant cash outlays for two projects that we are already engaged on and potentially two other projects right
um so for for those two like I said before right we do a good job of managing our unrestricted cash and our restricted cash um to allow us to make sure that we are not in a cash constrained position you guys remember from our Auditors the past four years
three years um we have been recognized for managing not just having a good audit making sure things are done but the comment has been our financials are strong and in fact our S&P is double A minus which is excellent for a municipal utility again that's because of how
we're managing our cash so to answer your question you know should that number be five instead of 5.4 I mean can we take $100,000 or $200,000 off the budget we we took so I just I I shared with you we're we're very sensitive to this so budget relative to what we think
the revenue is going to be if if everything works out exactly as we planned um we we will not spend all the way up to our budget we don't do that and that's you see that every year right we're under budget but you know back to Vex point you know we could have tried to push it to get that last $600,000
into the which would push it a couple tents of a percent up we chose not to do that so we've already put downward pressure the things you are asking us to do we've already done um I think so so the message is clear but and and we'd be happy to when we do this the next time
around you know the time that we I say the time the the analysis and the assumptions and the work we do to make all the stuff work out um there's a we happy to walk you through but it's not it's not we're not just picking numbers it's and I know you're not saying that but yeah it's
this is this is a well-managed budget I mean honestly and and our financials are well managed and they I mean um there is upward pressure on costum we just talked about those um but our reliability is better than it's ever been right we are we are more compliant
than we have ever been in terms of of uh being ahead and we can decide to ratchet that back you know that's a million a million two right there in terms of ratcheting that back down if we so decide to do that right um there's a bunch of levers that we can pull if we want to but we don't need to pull them right now the rates are on you know
we're on the we're in the 70 percentile we're not in the middle right on on residential and we're in the bottom cortile on on Commercial the C and I space as as Megan mentioned so as we look at that over and over again we say hey there's some imbalance there so that's but we have to go through the
proper analysis to be able to and we did that last time we did it in 2021 but we need to come back and look at that again because the world's changed around us and our mix of businesses changing as well anyways all said and done um you know we we are proud and confident of the
analysis that we can we've done if make go back and I mean we went through so many cycles of making adjustments and you know you know when you first do the but you first do the r stuff and you make adjustments and and then you make some more adjustments and when you start making adjustments in terms of what you think everything should be right the
numbers are still where they are you've got you know you're you're optimized as best you can be and that's where we are are we ready for Vote or I mean open to ideas to like if you want to have a week to think about it and call a quick meeting or if you want to please I don't I don't want to I'm just saying you guys
I and I'll say this just real quickly yeah you could do that if you want but every time you call a meeting there's massive overhead it's fine I I'm only asking because there's a lot of questions and it's a lot to process on a on a two- day or four- day uh board book so I'm just I'm I'm if because if there
are if there aren't then let's vote yeah I sign you're good to vote you're good I think we discussed it all in a lot of good points every way and people Express their concerns but I I yeah sorry I just
wish we've done more to fix the imbalance than the cni I don't know why we're not we haven't been doing that over time you know I didn't realize we were at the bottom over we're not do we're not jerking it up we're doing it steadily over time okay okay right there's a little bit of that in there okay is there yeah okay
yeah yeah yeah okay about it no I I can also point out as being the board for a while now that there was a cost of service study that PM did I can't remember how many years ago five six yeah five years ago whatever it was and they found that the res that the residential rate was being subsidized by
the commercial went other way so I think you really need the cost of service so tell okay element that yeah and I remember what you I remember now that you say that I remember it's
volume okay who's going to make the motion I apologize oh wait please wait wait I'm so sorry could you pass us down because we have to get the only one copy right forgive me this this motion has the additional rate in it which is that yellow one so if you read that one then
share that would that pass that back yeah sorry my apologies memorize way by yeah saving paper this is a good thing yeah please dou side it's right all right I'll move that the the assistance Advisory Board recommend that the Board
of Commissioners to accept the general manager's recommendation to replace the following mdp rates effective for Billings on or after April 1st 2025 replace 294 renewable Choice Rider with 322 replace 309 residential schedule a
with 317 replace 310 residential time of use schedule A2 with 318 replace 311 commercial schedule C with 319 replace 312 industrial time ofie schedule 1 with 320 and replace 313 School schedule with
321 second second okay all in favor all I move the board of commission on the recommendation of the city Advisory Board vote to accept the general manager's recommendation to replace the following mpu rates effective for
Billings on or after April 1st 2025 replace 29 4 renewable Choice Rider with 322 replace 309 residential schedule a with 317 replace 310 residential time of use schedule a 2 A2
with 318 replace 311 commercial schedule C with 319 replace 312 industrial time ofie schedule I'm assuming that's that's an i with 32 with 320 replace 313 sco
schedule s with 321 send that down to second okay um ready for a vote y any more discussion hopefully not okay all in favor I and that's five okay thank
you very much Greg and thank you Megan team effort thank you guys all right May that one so certificate retirement I think it was decided that every single year this topic will be reviewed and decided so last year was when the biggest change
was made uh from like a kind of annual 3% increase to a jump um to 55% and for this year we look at all our kind of a reserve of certificates and anticipated certificates generation we recommend to
keep that retirement rate at at 55% for for the reasons I put in the slide and mainly just like the supply of certificates is a little bit constrainted there are no major additions in terms of clean energy contracts and some of the hydro contracts were cleaning up those you
know some of them are about to expire and we're likely not to renew just because of the eics of those contracts and then um when we change to 55% we are already like we we we started with the lowest low first value uh certificates
retirement and then we sell the higher value certificates with 55% we're already eating into the higher this next second tier of certificates um so um and then as you can see in the chart once
you pass you know that um 50 to 60% the cost the additional cost of certificate retirement will will kind of uh increase uh significantly so for these reasons we still recommend 55% un likely unless we get some really big new
renewable contracts Pro probably for the next two three years we will not change this either that's the reommend but the vote today is just for 2025 retirement rate okay yeah I'll move at the RL Advisory board
on the recommendation of the general manager vote to approve the 2025 annual certificate retirement rate of 50 5% of retail kwh sales second all in favor three the Army the board Commission of the recommendation of the city Advisory
Board and general manager vote to approve 2025 annual certificate retirement rate 55% of retail uh kwh sales second okay any discussion all in favor I
I move that a 5 yes thank you I mean I we want to grow that percentage but I this year I'm I'm on board with 55 okay polies okay yeah so there's a in your table and'll
put it up on the screen but there's a policy table today's discussion is not to go through any individual policies but basically to lay out um what our plan is and as you guys know we have about about we 32 policies uh which is a lot
um every one of them was put in at a particular point in time for some particular reason as you guys know things don't just appear out of nowhere somebody did them for a reason but sometimes those reasons disappear so just take a look at your screen while I well while Eric works on the technical
issue we basically um looked at all of them our our normal course of oper uh a normal course of business is to uh review each policy every three years and you guys remember remember that we've been in a kind of a habit of trying to do at least one or two um uh ideally
we're doing um three or four but anyways in that chart you have in front of you um there's two colors um the blue the I think in your screen there's yellow across the top and then the bottom is orange on the bottom um we went through those basically and the top um roughly
12 are ones that we would keep um some of them we have recently updated um but we basically are in the mode of of keeping that group um tobacco sustainable energy um public coma policy community relations you can read the
list uh with me drug free workplace rmld procurement which goes back to some of the discussions you mentioned right before with policies that you guys set um for us to follow as the management team um we talked about the board document policy code of conduct code of conduct uh is
one that we made a a run at um about two and a half years ago we called it serving with Excellence your feedback on that particular one was it needs to have some teeth it's very aspirational um we will go back and make some revisions to that but we do believe that a code of conduct should be a policy and that's why it's uh in this top category the
Board of Commissioners 19 that's when we you guys we reviewed with you and we updated back in May of last year drunk and alcohol um citizens Advisory Board is C2 uh again these are ones that we would create um uh keep and create and
then uh there's a one which is the release of the executive session minutes um as well but those are the ones that we um would like to keep and continue to review on a regular basis the second half which are Safety Committee um paid
sick leave the rest of them there's and there roughly half of them those are ones that why we say we want we would want to remove them we would want to turn them into a procedure as opposed to into a policy um and then we'd have to do some content update as well
um you can see in that one there's there's facility use um Anonymous communication vehicle use these are all policies dress codes there's a lot of pieces in there um we will of course as we do each one of these review them with you so we we won't make any changes until we get approval because right now
they are all policies but that's the strategy and the direction we want to go to the key piece is as we have already been doing we've been trying to streamline them and have them be internally consistent um as you have fewer of them it's easier to make them internally consistent but that's the
overall strategy of what we'd like to do going forward so we're not really looking for approval any feedback is good but our our goal and intention besides just cleaning up each one individually but also there's a strategy in terms of how we would probably move some of them to procedures and as you know already in many of the ones that we
reviewed recently there have been elements of those policies that we've actually moved into procedures question so so I I noticed uh it's good they have it's like paid Sly the tuition reimburse
medic those are are basically things that we don't have any control just to mostly they're right state run yep you know I don't know how they became a policy that probably one
point in time so I think that yeah uh the trust fund you know I I don't know if there is one I don't know if there's something must do procedurally well and we'll make sure we keep make any changes we take I do
agree moving those into certain other procedures that you that you have you'd have to go to tuition reement right that that's provided to an
employee right I don't know poliy I it should should be a procedure yeah I mean like you know you're look at number 27 the the use the rld information systems that goes back
to 1997 when each of us was given a laptop that belong to the department part of the communication that's good question though so let's let's use use of Information Systems as a as a good example um if someone
violates a policy related to use of Information Systems what's the difference between that and violating a procedure with use of information system if you talk about like disciplinary action or like or resolution half what's
the difference between a poli future well I I kind of feel like you probably looked at this and and and made the determination to grab on to with a policy rather than a procedure would be like training geted I see
that but the your point when there's things like laws you know we see this sometimes people contract theond policy and I know we're always trying to bring it back to not have as much of that have say refer to
the law because if Law changes you don't want to have your polic in you know your your policies within cbas or other things oh sorry within cbas or other things to to have you try to catch up with that all
the time so we really try to move away from that and also oftentimes your contract can make you know whatever the law offers better but it doesn't take anything away from it so it's always like starts with the the basis of the
law and then it may enrich it but it do so did you Benchmark like other MLPs or in terms of what they are looking at as policies versus procedures I do feel like there's a few things in here
that I would expect a policy and I would expect if somebody is given a laptop that they would sign a policy with how to use that yeah I think my kids have do that for school right they they have to sign the thing when they get their iPad that they you know will follow this policy which
signature and a procedure still has teeth you can be disciplined for okay I just heard that it didn't I just heard she was being definitive but many of our procedures have teeth to them where there's disciplinary active TI to them okay so then what's the difference stronger
because they're they're signing off on a policy like when you're when you're walking in and saying here's our sexual harassment policy you've read it you're signing that you read it that you understand it all and I just that's one of the differences I see in a proced we don't have anyone sign off on prescri so
I feel like there are still there are a few things in here that you know identity theft vehicle use uh Information Technology use those feel like important enough to the you know to
the organization that and risky enough if they're not policies that they should be policies other things like the Strategic plan um surplus material those it those seem like good procedures but we we'll
as we look at each one so I think I think what you're basically saying is just make sure the the on some of these are are operational related some of these are when you talk about policy strategic Direction related so as we go to each one so we hear the feedback and as we go to each one we we'll look at
them more carefully we're just based this is our initial cut we actually reviewed this with Council in terms of their recommendations as well Council has experience with a lot of the other MLPs um so as we come to each one of these but we want to give the first and foremost as we've talked several times in the past that there's several policies that we need to look at sooner
rather than later we haven't prioritized it quite yet we'll do that um between now and the next meeting but we want to give you as we look at each one individually Our intention was let's really do a a more significant revamp in terms of how we're trying to structure these and we want to give you an idea of
what we're trying to do so it was meant you guys will ultimately have approval in terms of how we handle each one of these we'll bring them forward to you and we'll give you logic behind them um and obviously like we've done in the past we'll spend time to make sure that they're C is consistent we can possibly make them we're also trying to make them
that they are um appropriately categorized between policy procedure and some of fact to Bob's Point are legal or potentially other ones are really overlapping into CBA contracts so a great yeah sorry one thing I think feel a little concerned
about is strategy should be a policy it's you know it should be something that the commissioner and the cab will have some influence on you do so so I think like in terms of any board
the most important thing the board does is strategy and and I think so so so so so it's becomes a very fundamental role that you know the board plays yeah and so I think the element is how we so complete agreement right the mechan the
question is what mechanism is best to do that and the mechanism that we're using currently is the um annual goals you know the GM goals that we approved and so if you remember two years ago we did a major update to that um and and we
went through a discussion of it um the policy right now for strategy simply says we will We Will We Will assemble a strategic plan every five years our view is we update the Strategic plan every year so we it's not a useful policy if we want
to if we want to our thought process and our our view is that the mechanism is the goals are are really driving the strategy of the organization rather than just saying hey you got have a strat plan every five years that make sense yeah the audience
for that one is kind of an audience of one in terms of the general manager being responsible for setting the strategy versus the some of these are relevant for the entire population of the organization well as we talked about before the general manager goals are the
corporate goals but Greg yeah you're not GNA hold like somebody walking in the in the door you know in accounting or something responsible for making there's a strategy for the organization right that's the general manager but you might hold that same person responsible for a
prevention or something that's only my point I'm arguing for why that procedure in that case makes a little more sense than a policy just a I I don't know if the structure of maybe some of these policies and
procedures might many places have you know that your employee handbook is this is the way this expectation they're all considered there where you know we SE separate maybe there something to think about separating those those two um then that
way they don't become policy it's that might be the mechanism for procedures you're exactly right yeah and and then that way you certain expectations are set in that in that handbook and then that's it could roll up a lot of things that might take certain things off out
of here but policies stay how you there's been mixed feelings on that that in the three towns that I've worked in before some had you know that type of thing others did not want
it at all and we're advised by Council not to have employee so so just just to share that with you it's not to to kill the idea but just to say there there's reasons they that are more recent that that they say they they don't I I just
come back to the strategy because we do capital investment over very long times right so we're doing Investments for a very long time and so it's if you set a goal so so it's just a question how you think about it if you're thinking year
toe you have to think year to year but you also because we are thinking long term so so I'm I'm I'm particularly sensitive about strategy having a long tail and if you lose sight of that then you become very focused on that year
that's a good point too so so so that's why I I come back and I I I would really recommend you you consider you know you you need to have a strategy for because you're saying I'm going to need a substation at a certain time I need to
do something about this whole location that's strategy that is strategy and so it's not a procedure in my mind we're yeah and again you know you're talking to the guy that loves strategy right almost as much
as power supply so and and I say that with a smile but I mean the reason if you look at all of our our mission statements and everything everything that precedes everything there's we repeat that strategy over and over again in terms of in territory generation you know how do you manage PE transmission cost how do you look at long-term power
supply all those factors come into it so I think what we're we're not we are in complete agreement of the critical importance of strategy what we're really talking about here is the mechanism to make sure that we do that there's there's also a third bucket here when when there's things that involve what the board does or should know about we
should have a committee then whoever's the next chair to have the board looking at anything and maybe suggesting things not just waiting for not just waiting for you to bring back what you think although we want that too like I noticed
at the end you have you want to just delete the number 25 which does set up a way for us to be notified if there's allegations which is just broen to lead it I think it should be a committee of board the
board that would do that that would look at anything that has to do with board actions or board what the board gets notified of for the board responsibilities one General thing is um and Susan is great at this I'll give her all the credit in the world whether you
call it a policy or proced BL structure and having call it what you want as long as you have them you have structure and I think she brought that to the town of wilington she brought that to rmld I tried to bring it to town of wiing but she brought it to and um and so you can
call what you wanted but as long as there's an oversight of the Board of Commissioners the general manager HR then you have control and that's all it's really about so um that's my two cents up good got it
we this is just a discussion yeah hey we're going to skip so we we as we talked about before we're not going to we'll do the green the the Green community stuff via email and then we'll we'll um do a formal presentation and on
March 26 or the next launch meeting for that V okay so we'll jump to the general manager update sure I know it's getting lace just had a couple of key points here um the next
slide so we're uh we're nearly finished filling out the team um we hired a control operator as you guys remember the control operator is a um we have a team of five our control is covered 247 it's always staffed um it does as we've
talked about many times before um the Staffing of that does impact overtime um to a significant degree um so the good news is we've hired a control fully staff there's a six-month training process um to that we also hired a system engineer to add to the engineering team which is a great
addition thank you the U and we uh as we talked about as you guys have uh have reinforced and we are in complete agreement uh the importance of uh Communications um so uh we are posting in the process of posting a marketing
Communications coordinator to be part of our marketing team and then we're also posting in the ird ray uh energy program specialist we used to call it an analyst one but um any you know part of the teams uh Megan and Susan and the rest of
the group you how do you make it more relevant and interesting so it's an energy program specialist um you guys uh uh back in the 27th of January were asking about some of the legislative and Regulatory and Community engagement type stuff um and
what the results are we are specifically talking about some key projects and funding it's a followup to the December 5th meeting we had one of the senator wasn't able to make it it's going to be in next week um in terms of uh awareness um Megan had discussed a while back our
some modifications or some additional options we're trying to make to our heat pump program and this is a no interest loan it would be in lie of a cash rebate um but we're doing that with a ready call bank so trying to work with local businesses which is good so uh on March 12th we'll have a ribbon cutting we'll
make sure you guys are aware of it as well it'll be late afternoon um and then as a followup to um the December fifth meeting that we had here um at River Park uh which is an industrial park in the middle of our territory um that's where the first um
set of the additional Battery Systems are going in place there's two 5 megawatt battery systems those are nearly commissioned right now they'll be fully commissioned uh in March um and we're going to do a ribbon cutting just you kind of a nice big program um key
audience are both legislative and Regulatory um in particular because as we go into the next phase which is the longer term ones we will we're looking for them to provide additional cash and capital um and uh regulatory flexibility to make those programs work as well so
there's a lot of stuff happening on the community and Regulatory stuff um uh you guys um are aware and we're in the process U you guys are in the process of setting up your email um it is available for those of you that are still looking to do your setup um
our goal just to kind of a heads up is to fully transition the communication to be off of personal off of personal emails and into the armod the email by the end of March so after our last board meeting so you know please get to it um
but just big picture so let me ask you a question on that Greg I am not going to set up my email is that going to hold up the rest of the board um I don't think so Ray no sense me to set I don't think so only because um I understand um if
depending upon uh we we'll look at the calendar and the transition associated with that only because I think next month is might be your last meeting yep next month will'll be my last meeting okay well in that case then we kind of designed the 31 to work around
you we've already accommodated we'll be leaving together Phil after 38 years next month be my last meeting I was chasing you but got to 10 yeah so um as we talked earlier about power supply so these are just some of the interesting elements we T we there's
there's some interesting data here the real message behind this slide is that that power supply um it remains a high priority we're doing risk management um and as as Megan mentioned earlier it's a very Dynamic market and Bob you you kind
of brought it up right natural gas is going through all sorts right now it's high but anyways there's a of dynamic nature of it um Pam you mentioned right the higher bill right so as we talked about earlier right a monthly bill is driven by two factors usage in terms of kilowatt hours
for residential there's demand piece for for some of the cni accounts but usage and then what the rates are and so January 25th was cold that coldness continued into February um just to give you it doesn't look like a big difference but the recent 10year average
was 31.5 six um and and uh January average was 29.5 five you know two degrees was that really a big difference well it did have a big impact it basically drove not only um uh our load but Regional loads up about 8% in January so pretty
significant it was driven Prim well it was driven by weather specifically 8% versus versus versus what we budgeted back to back to the budgeted piece forecast oh I was reading where it says 8% above January oh I'm sorry 8% janary 244
yeah bu versus yes um so that's on the load side and Ray you mentioned this at the last couple meetings right that we're balancing load Dynamic load and then Dynamic Supply so this is exactly a point in the month of January where it was a windy month but it was also a cold
month um and there's a couple other factors driving it but Hydro was down um below forecast and wind was up and so and you know there's a whole bunch of implications in terms of the mix between those two and the timing between those two and the reasons between too the point being is that again it's something
we need to actively manage especially when we have renewable resources which are inherently intermittent well there's a lot of hydro in my yard right now which will probably get into the groundwater and into your room looking forward to that so so I'm more you I'm my question with that is as we look to
the spring where we we'll see Hydro starting to come up but we'll also see demand come down yep how how are we how are we managing that that side of the demand Supply well so so um in both of those you know we look as we talked about before right we will probably be
in a situation where we have more Supply than load in the month of April and possibly may not March um and and then we look at you know what's the implication of there's a bunch of factors net net from a a net dollar perspective we're still ahead of the game as we look at an overall year okay
um the other element here just so this is part of the reason why we looked at um In This Very volatile Market you know historically used to be when the market was very stable we used to be at 60% hedge um obviously over the past several years we've moved to roughly 90% hedge this is a good example where um in late
December the Ford price curve was about 100 the forecast for January again the following month was $15 a megawatt hour that ATC is Around the Clock um there's on Peak and opties but just the details the big message is when we actually got
into January it got colder than planned and then the ATC or the the open market price was $135 a mega hour right and those numbers are you know our average contracted is less than half of that so as those prices Evol get higher and
higher our our customers um bills are dampened with that kind of impact and and if you look at the website you can see we didn't have a lot of high push you while cost were higher we dampened the high cost anyways the key point is that um our hedging position was Ben you know the customer significantly
benefited if we were much more open market the your six whatever your your $700 bill would be significantly higher than that so anyways I gave you this just to give you just a little bit of snapshot in terms of the dynamic nature we'll do a more detailed power supply in the next several months but um this is
just again reinforcing why managing power supply is so important so Greg one quick thing because I never even thought about like I always knew whether affected um wind and solar but I never really thought about Hydro so is it because every the rivers freeze and they freeze and they can't run I never even
thought about that no but but exactly so it gets really cold and it and droughts I guess but well you get droughts as well but Hydro has its you know everyone has it capability yeah but but the other well the freezing temperature also affects the ability of them to to pump
out during January potentially and this year was particularly cold the other thing that we haven't talked about lately but several years back some of you remember we were looking specifically at different Hydro contracts to making sure they weren't all on the same um watershed area they weren't on the same river right and so
we've we've geographically tried to spread those around as well so there's a bunch of when we talk about risk management and we we've done we did a lot of discussion on that last fall and we'll do it again um but there's a lot of factors that go into how you manage the risk associated with contracts we
have roughly 30 contracts um which is a lot but part of it is risk management any final questions [Music] okay Dave back to you all right well we had uh this was a discussion it was
significant emails from from you last night to the whole board um that um that also forwarded an email from Chris Par that he had sent to me um so we we took a vote on February 12th about three areas of performance that we felt
were less than satisfactory that that occurred and um and in Chris's email and then you echoed it said that this meant it was it was leads to discipline but the comp contract doesn't say anything about that or that it went meant it was a pip and again the contract doesn't say all all
your contract says is we shall provide a list and right period and a story so I we we all read the emails great long as you all read them what path you want to go and then I just want to point out also that Chris Chris's note didn't mention that I'd had two conversations with him about well how how do we that
and included you on one so it was an effort to try to say well what is our process for doing that if we wanted to do something in writing how would we do it and so that was why I reached out to them and we actually had a productive call maybe do a live edit on a zoom meeting so at this point it's really
just like what how do we turn what we talked about into that what could be a brief written list I gave you a 200w version as a you know so everybody has it oh they do okay so part of the package okay you guys this this all you now sure so I mean how or what do we
do oh no let me stop yeah senority has his privilege I bow to the one the youngest bows to the I respect I respect you more than you think I do first all I thank Chris for
the memo uh because it made clear at our discussion we really didn't know we had not been able to review with the particular section 4.5 so this memo kind of you know allowed me to review what 4.5 says um as I understand it here U if
we move we adop what you wanted to do that kind of uh starts a clock running for six months in potential disciplinary action um you know I'm not gonna be around six months but you know if the improvements don't come back the board
could could terminate the general manager in next months if I have that wrong you gotta not not in the contract in any way the other thing that's going on is I'm sure I don't know how much you're aware but there are union negotiations going on
right now and it would be very bad thing to weaken the general manager in your negotiations you know he he has presented two items here two uh two Pathways um in terms of the guns let me just find it where I got it
here you know in terms of we can either resend the two motions or we can just say that the uh the January 27th is the is the review we covered all those items and you know those seem pretty straightforward to me that you know those set the items that you should be
aware of and should be addressed going forward so I think that you know in terms of what I have it's a second pathway in terms of the motion there that we uh that we move that the B the board approved the January 27th to open session minutes and those Services AR
men 2024 written performance well I think we I think we have a different meeting that we're talking about we're going to say something well yeah we've been in this process now for several months so so the idea of a clock
or something starting I think we' talked about areas of improvement and how to do it we've talked about Solutions they're in your goals for next year yeah so so I don't see a 60-day or six-month clock kicking in I think they're Incorporated
in those goals and and just we we've got the team we've addressed some of the issues you know I don't I don't see that being the driver as a board we only have so much power and and one of the few Powers we
have is get feedback to the general manager and I do not see it being a failure to give the general manager strong feedback it would send the message that the general man manager
gives weak feedback to the people that they're reporting to so if we give strong feedback to the general manager and the general manager says to whoever they're negotiating with this is important I've been hit on this we've got to manage these costs because the board has established that this is
important then you're going to have to relay that message down the chain I don't think that that weakens any negotiating position I think it strengthens it in terms of energy staff and Communications which are the three basic categories so if the board says to
you that these are the three categories that are really really important that we didn't do well in 2024 they're on my goals for 2025 I fail to understand how that weakens the negotiating I think it strengthens it because those are then the messages you have to relay down
Downstream that this is what the board has has put Priority on so the negatives that have been presented to me I I don't I don't see them as being limiting and I would rather see a the
board accept its responsibility as giving the manager feedback supporting the manager in achieving that goal and objective going forward but not fail to give strong feedback so I would say it's been a
process Greg we've been been through a number of things a number of times we we spent some extra time on the 12th of of February to to kind of go over this let's let's take the minutes of the February 20 February
12th as our final feedback and the performance reflect goals or outcomes are those things that are reflected in your goals and um as as the outcomes I don't I don't is there anything I should
be taken away from the January 27th feed well I I think it both really I mean I think both it was it's been a process you you had the 27th you digest it you you gave us a sheet back and and then we digested that and
said well I think the way I see it is this didn't include that and this didn't include that we still want more in in these things and and there were some edits that came out of out of that to me to me it's Collective uh as far as written feedback I would I would propose
we just take the minutes of the um February 12th as the written feedback and and January 27th and February well it could be both but collectively yes but we did on the 12th we specifically
had ones of of less than S yeah it has to be inclusive of the of the 12 sure but they can include the 27 are you making a motion if yes I can put forward a motion if that please yes so just add in terms of R
suggested you got you got the suggested Moe for number two there in front of I have one but it's consistent add just add the February 12 minutes to that why don't you read your what let me just quick we had a meeting on the 12th specifically about three areas and the
question has been what do we do with that meeting yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah let me just um it's right here right there it plan a plan B yeah just just add on plan just February I have some suggested
language and I'm I'm reading what is put here and you're I get what you're saying Phil I'm not just this one he wants to add we want to add J you can you can take Dave's memo if you want to take it well it's my my stat the second option those aren't the
only tool I mean those are things that Greg put forward but we can also make our own motions all right right right I understand I understand I'm just taking pieces of input here and and want to uh uh all right
both are quite similar so um there's option A which is what I have taking as a base and move that the read Municipal Light Board of Commissioners approve the summary written list of
areas of jun performance that were less seary based on the January 27th 2025 and February 1225 regular session meeting minutes as a approved by the Board of Commissioners so can you say that again say that again
all right move that the rmld Board of Commissioners approved the summary written list of GM performance that were less than satisfactory based on the January 27th
2025 and February 12th 2025 regular session meeting minutes as approved by the Board of Commissioners because there's going to be a Mee minutes well they don't exist yeah there any second on
that so I'm un sure what you're actually approv well can we have he made a motion do we have a second I'm sorry I didn't really fully I don't fully understand the motion okay let's hear the motion and I don't second it until I get understand the motion all right so what
of what the but the motion intent is that we are approving the areas of GN performance be based on the meeting minutes from the January 27th and February
2025th February 12 February 12th um meeting minutes so we're not writing something up we're referencing those meetings as the basis of our I heard you say before that to summarize the written list of areas that were less than a satisfactory when you said it the first
time get that well I mean it's what he said the first yeah I was going off it wase I mean it's what he said the first time so so Ray you're probably better off if you do you know you can do whatever you want but uh if you take some motion number two there and just
add in the February 12th 2025 to the January 27th you I think would you you like that language better I think you've accomplished what what you're trying to do all right we'll try again want me to read we don't have to
do a written we don't have to do a written we already had a big long meeting with 60 comments the only thing that written list would be if there was things that were less than that's the only thing that the contract said we would do a written list on so either we do that or we do nothing right now this is this is fine I'm agreeing with Phil
let's let's go let's s from scratch hi I'm reporter um that the read Municipal Light Board of Commissioners approved that the January 27 2025 and
February 12 25 Open session meeting minutes serve as the general manager's 2024 written performance review I think that's I think that's I think that's right yeah I think that's I'll second that yeah so those okay meeting minutes
serve as the written performance review that's so we're not doing a list even what embedded that or list embedded in those meeting minutes are definitely three things that that thought and discussed and voted on actually so well yeah that's the thing we V on list so
the meeting minutes would have specific voted on okay language did we move and second it yeah I second it okay we ready is that we ready for a vote on that any other comments okay all right okay all in
favor I I and and come up with a way for every pain processes here I think it's a process Greg we all get feedback feedback you know constructive feedback right and and we come back we we all things we get things we can
improve on I think that's that's the point right yeah we pointed and and I think just to be clear I'm more than welcome to constructive feedback so I'm reacting to the cont things one of the things I would suggest August 22nd and that's why I push back yeah when Dave
fennessy was a board member he and both Tom were were actually Personnel people they created some sort of system I don't know if we could look up that dig up that system somewhere because he talked about something doing on a on a
regular basis once a year thatw that's theed right Mr chair one last thing yeah um at the next meeting I request some time at the beginning of the meeting I will give you more than
time I'm going to throw the gabalier away my friend I worked on the chronology of each you're gonna be you're gonna be the master seron I just want to do one piece of half keeping on what we just did and I'd just like to move that move that the
that the that the document that's to be produced by the previous motion shall include within it the list of the three items that were deemed less than satisfactory on the February 24th meeting just to be clear that it includes that that's my
motion move that the that the performance review that results from the foregoing motion from January 27th and February 12th shall include the three items that the board voted as being less than satisfactory we voted on it is there a
second on that motion no is there a second on the motion that it will include the the three so it's not going to include the three so we're erasing that I'm not proving I'm not seconding the motion because by definition those meeting
minutes okay talked about three items vote on the three items they'll include it I I don't see anything see second or or vote on it it's inclusive by definition all right then okay so no no second and no vote on that just understanding it's is it an
understanding that it does I'm just making sure I'm I don't know how it's gonna let's before we adjourn I just like to to to for this purpose of this complicated minutes approval I think we need a couple I'm on the can we have that's right with great
respect for your service maybe could one of you serve as or both or two people serve as board secretary other than me to go through this two thing and go through whatever this or or we just leave it feels like a lot to hand to Eric if they do oh no we'll do the same process exactly the same process I
certainly will be objective in fine it's not about you it's just I was thinking you know i' be more than happy to share it with either Pam or maybe I'll share it with Ray the minutes all right I think that may be the appropriate thing yeah just having two people share the minutes with Ray have two people put their heads those two because we already
approved the January 27th minutes yeah the February 12th minutes I'll share we can share with just for clarity yeah just for clarity so did I hear it correctly um because contractually I'm now on the clock are you saying I'm not on the clock I'm saying there's a single
sentence in are just yes or no am I o'clock or no um well it's not clear what we just voted for so the rest of you guys need to decide because it has this this discussion tonight has huge implications you just need to make sure you're I'm
hearing very clearly right I have the feedback sure okay you have the Feb but you guys are making decisions on contractuals so yes or no well that's why I think if if we didn't vote on it that's a different that's a different discussion point if you're asking us something now let you're making this a
legal decision without we don't have councel you would Council look at that this is where it all goes to all the time you would Council look at that and advise on what we were asking for first of all it writes a a large email and and we were taking something that it's all
started because it was it's we did not notice that again it's we like we it says it in the contract right and be that okay we're trying to follow that's that's your contract you gave it to us y okay you get Chris PA to write this
massive email back again us we have to sorry Chris is on the call you know the call yeah but but again that it comes back to us right and that was just again we're making simple
things complicated we don't okay okay but now you're asking us to make a statement about that we have nothing I have no knowledge of you can't tell me to say yes or no and I don't know what that means to me or what that decision process is right so so I I want to I
want to back up there and just say all we're trying to do is just do a review and and follow a process that we said okay Greg we said some things that you can approve on your contract says we have to give you that in writing it says it in black and white now Chris comes
back and says oh no it doesn't it says it right there that's all we follow now we go now you're asking to say yes or no I didn't nothing that we said what you want to talk not that nothing that I said anybody here said that okay I said the opposite that we've incorporated
into your goals into the things moving forward that things are already in place for managing many of these issues and I I don't see any clocks here I I I think we've addressed the issues we've defined the issues we've the meeting minutes have been
writing I I really don't even know why we're having this conversation I all it is we need to come up because every time we we think we're taking a step forward we're taking a step back because again language and lawyers and everything gets involved
right we're just going through a simple a process where we're trying to get something done I think we did it I we we attempted to satisfying Chris's letter right again I'll let Chris speak now speak too much but I think that was the
whole point of what prus list yeah hi um good evening Commissioners um I just wanted to point out there there's no magic to giving the um general manager feedback um you can do it informally you can do it um verbally you
can do it in writing um you can do it however you think is most appropriate um in the circumstances the significance of the language in section 4.5 is when you've deemed basically the general performance of the manager to be less than satisfactory and you need
something to happen about in a six-month period And if that six-month per and if it doesn't happen within that six-month period then you're going to be taking some sort of action so if that's and what I'm hearing from the board is that's not the intent so because of the
contract just because the contract doesn't contain language that prohibits you um from providing comments in writing doesn't mean that you can't provide comments in writing without triggering section 4.5 that's so I think that's the point that I wanted to
communicate there seems to be a misunderstanding that if the board wants to provide written feedback that it has to trigger section 4.5 of the contract that's not true but the thing is Chris section 4.5 has a single sentence that says we we shall provide him a list in
writing of what those are it doesn't say that that therefore means if it something doesn't happen in six months X happens after that it's completely silent on on anything you've said in your email that means he's uh subject to
discipline there's absolutely nothing in the contract about discipline or that it's putting on on a p on a pip the contract says nothing about us being able to put the general manager on a pip so that's just something in your email that's just how that works in in the labor and employment context say that I
think your firm reviewed the contract before you know back I mean it was I think it was your colleague and and you're saying it says something that it's not said in the contract I'm not sure there's any disagreement Dave I I think that I think the board wants to provide written feedback all my only
point is you can provide written feedback without triggering section 4.5 there's no need to reference section 4.5 unless you've got a six-month performance metric in mind which hearing from the Commissioners you don't have that in mind well all it says is actions
which we believe he could take to improve things in a six-month period period and then it's it stops de it doesn't say anything after that meeting minutes of Janu February 12th do not mention specifically 4.5 I think we do mention the three areas of written
feedback which now is in the form of those meeting minutes and why can't we stop talking about this right yes Mr chairman um I mean sure I'll move well I see a should first sorry oh schedule
wait for schedule Yeah March the 26 can we do um can we potentially look at April well you can look at April for me all you want as of April 8th I'm G I'm surprised that the uh the new gentleman who's
running has not come to this meeting I'm a little surprised a little bit a April 23rd which is so Wednesday so I know we kind of shift it in terms of dates third week of April starts the 21st schol school vacation week okay let's not do that um how about the week
of the 28th which is the 29th or the 30th or May 1 um either of the last two weeks of April um I'll have to phone in from France oh what about the 16th why don't
we just all go me there the 16th we did the 16 worked right I'll probably be dead by the 16th that's Wednesday I'm by the 31st so you will be April 16 sure ail 16 in
truthfulness I probably will miss it I probably miss you know the time has coming I I cannot serve you know another I would have to commit to another three-year term and I I can't guarantee I'd be around for three years okay I found a place in wilington that I love
so I may moving there hey steing down in cab the woman we did you can be on the cab problem that's it name tag moves from there to
here right did we just that on 16 six o'clock okay that worked yeah Bob does six work or do you want to try to go a little later just feel like like kind of close no six six is fine I I I'm okay
just do you want to go for me also yeah pardon me I can't the week of May 19 could I just ask a quick question just in the interest of not ever having to discuss this again or think about it
again I just like to say if if these minutes are produced and there is reference to that section if we don't say what we mean then we're going to be asking again what we mean um I I I took away a reference to
that section from Dave and I think assuming that it isn't in there could be Troublesome because if it is we're going to be looking back at you and saying that's not what you intend could you indicate it tonight it's not what you intended so I as the HR person I just
want Clarity on is that what you intended I can clarify something sorry just I will clarify that the motion was pursu into section 4.5 according to transcri so that that was
motion and and I do think that means what to me that meant and you all know that what Chris felt it meant to to me in my experience well again that's okay that's what Chris felt like it meant I
think it's I think he clearly intent here right um now we're getting into the one of our legal issues versus non-legal issues that again that that we seem to get our circular paths right we we get
these vortexes get out of right and and I just think we we haven't we hav't tend we're trying to provide some ke they state that in there but I think great here's our intent
right and I think to answer you specifically suan um you know because there's no second sentence after that sentence in his contract okay uh first of all we I don't know that we've come out of this with a process for producing the list with the actions we I don't
think that happened tonight I could have but it didn't so okay but something's going to happen now some mish mash of minutes I don't know what it's going to look like and then even if there is in there a list and actions um the contract doesn't say of course you know what
happens in month seven if we don't think something happened by month six it says nothing about it that might be precisely why we don't use it and we just give the feedback because I do think I do think it says very clearly six months and that's putting it is putting him on a
clock and and we just want to be really clear that we know he's on a clock if he's on a clock right but I mean it doesn't say anything about whether it matters if it's seven months or doesn't happen it just said this is things we'd like you to do in six months it said and
then it's it's it's silent which would be nice if it wasn't right well I think one of the things that we as asked bre to do part of was provide the board feedback right over the course over the course of of the next couple of weeks
that's one of that's one of the it's also why let me just get this out okay it's also why I saw have two meetings with Chris to say okay we took this vote how do we render the vote into a proper list that we then all agree on which could include significant feedback from
Greg about what the list is and what the actions are and that's the conversation I had with Chris and Greg a week and a day ago and now but something different happened where the proposal was oh just substitute January 27 minutes as if February 12th didn't even happen and
then a big memo about how we can't do this and we should resend if we had just had the zoom meeting to go through and finish this 300-word memo and agree on it we wouldn't be here right now but that didn't happen but I'd still be open to having that 30 minute Zoom meeting to
hammer out I do it again well I mean we could have done it tonight we could have done it Monday like you said last week and we didn't so just to be real clear yeah I I will speak very emphatically I am dedicated to this organization listen to me very carefully right I took the feedback I've been working on the
feedback I've been working on this stuff for six months we T talk and so and we've made a lot of progress on seven on several elements um I will continue to serve at the pleasure of the board as long as the board wants me to be here I so that that is my commitment to the
organization to you but also to the organization because at the end of the day my responsibility is to follow under your direction but I am serving the community and I am and I am doing the best of my ability to take care of our employees that is my commitment until my last day here you guys get to decide
when that is that's all just that that needs to be very clear you heard this earlier how I interacted with Mr Charlie right that's how I run the business all right you understand how I manage the financials our financials are excellent all right it's a team effort is our team
perfect no but I anyways all said and done um till you guys say no thanks um I will do my best that's and that's period so let again I I'll stop there I'll just stop there I I I think things will be a
little bit different um going forward which should be great okay may go to May 26th 27th 28th you guys want to try and make a cut at that you guys know your schedule's well enough sounds fine to me yeah 28th
is a Wednesday May yeah or 21st no I'm good oh okay 28 is after Memorial Day actually days that may matter is it 28th 26 oh 26 you're
right May 27th is better than 28th is stough for me the 27th is fine actually 27th or 29th yeah either one's okay for me anybody have any preferences orex only got the limitation we'll do it on the 29th okay
there you go 29th this CL good a word I got um I'd like to say something before tonight's over as this last week um thank you to everyone of the Board of
Commissioners cab every employee here yes it's been a great run and you know it's I've learned a lot about power electricity that I never even knew I needed to learn but uh thank you for everything it's been fantastic You' been awesome wait are
next next month next month you didn't make next month you did April 2 26 I um two meetings L sorry yeah as of right now March 26 I
have two Mee um we'll see what time do they finish come at all first one starts at 6:30 can you come for 10 minutes we start at 5:30 I could use one right now will you allow us the opportunity to say thank you I'll try to see what I can do to um
six to 610 but I just wanted to make sure I said it tonight just in case we thank you no we if I can when we get closer I'll take a look now again it's been at least 10 if not 11 years so it's been good run thanks for all your feedback I I you
breaking in your procurement knowledge and understand how municipality RS and the impact of all the stuff like ton I get point about 100% electrification And just the charge what the implication of that that just I I never thought that
the T on that would be unbelievable right because you're you're just talking about penalty right and there's nothing you can do it's a municipal building they're all kind of eye opening statement but that that's still going to miss appreciate who knows I come back as
a surprise guest sometime Dennis you've brought a lot to the table so I thank you from my my standpoint hey I learned a lot from you man I thank you br I appreciate that you gonna miss it when you're gone
I will I actually this was a high one to leave because I do enjoy yeah gr there some great banter and things I know exactly what you're talking about but um you know it was a hard one but it was I don't think it's fair to the community or the group if I can't show up with three months straight and I'm looking at
the next three months and going yeah how do I fit this in and then to my family it's been Monday through Thursday so I'm home 9 o'clock 9:30 every night so but it's tough on the lead emo crying I
could so didn't you move to a jour C emotional adour favor motion y all in favor of Journey thank you thank you yes we got we're doing something with John
yeah that's yeah yeah yeah e e e e e e