e e am I supposed to be able hear anything I was just going to say the same thing can hear you now Karen I heard you yeah it just it just turned on I couldn't hear anything before okay hear me I'll be this is one to can you hear me Mike if that's you I can hear you you can okay thank you I kept checking my mic settings because nobody was saying anything Greg look I changed my background just for you now Karen is the question is is that is that your photo or is that something you grabbed from somewhere it is my photo my kid a few quite a few years ago in the background but I was like I need ocean because Greg's got some ocean so where where was that um um most likely um off of nahan okay so this this my background photo is I took it um October morning uh this is marble head in the background this is Sal oh yeah nice okay misery Islands back here in the distance yeah yeah our first boat was actually off of so we should be can wear them um Can somebody can you talk for a minute so we can see if we can hear you volume the bottom oh yeah um it's on the computer there it's off can you hear me now yeah right there think I'm going back I can hear you okay yeah now I feel bad that I don't have an ocean background Perfect all right you hi everyone hello so we'll start I'd like to call the M 9th mat we recording we recording record record I'd like to call the May 9th hel School building committee to order and we will do a roll call vote um parents here John I'm here perk here Sarah's um coming late Ed is not coming um Greg here Pat here and Nancy here great and um we have a bunch of people in here and we have a bunch of people online so thanks for coming everyone um I'll quickly review the agenda we'll open it up to public comment uh it doesn't look like we have anybody from the public here um liaison reports we're going to talk about the um any more feedback from the PDP report um and then we'll have a vote to approve it and then we'll have any additional designer reports OPM reports along with financials um which we will vote on um talk about um then we will approve prior meeting minutes and any future items so we'll have we have no public comment because we have no one here from the public um public okay and then um we'll go into liaison report so if anybody has anything they would like to share um yet I know we have sustainability meetings coming up so maybe next time we have two two of those coming up right um we had our tours of um acting boxboro and our two schools in Watertown we went to the Gates elementary school and actin box for on Wednesday we had a great crowd on Thursday we went to water toown we had crowd it's still a great crowd and we saw the K school and the HOSA Elementary School um At The Gates elementary school we had an energy director giving us a tour and we had um an energy person and the superintendent in Watertown give us those tours so if any I'd like to hear people's kind of feedback on it because we didn't we all left didn't get a chance to um you want anything comments about it um two schools were great and two schools were terrible but that's my comment I mean great the first first two the act and they were I you know my comment at the time was I designed better looking and more welcoming prisons than I'm a prison designer but it was uh not good the looking out from the upper floors of the school you looked at kind of a ver sea of roofing uh it was just a horrible kind of environment in my view I'm not an architect and I don't play architect but um the PS were cold and dreary and um just didn't like it but there we are but they used Watertown schools was bright and happy and colorful and they are I agree with you agree okay yeah I I the first just me I thought it was institutional um yeah um I felt like it was in a hospital and I I liked um the kic school much better than the hos school I thought the kind of school felt like an elementary school to me um more so than the hoso school so we'll definitely be talking I was chirping and Jenny Z I like this talk to her and re about it too any anyone else want to comment [Music] okay yeah maybe we lost her all right um yeah I don't disagree with uh John's comments although I don't know anything about designing prisons and I think the acting box bro school was so much larger than the other two schools and it did sort of feel like it didn't quite get there as far as the welcoming I also wasn't crazy with how visible the industrial components were I could think about was dust um so loved the Watertown schools I was happy to um hear from energy managers in both school districts as well as a superintendent of the Watertown schools that the the systems The Net Zero systems they were using they're performing at or better than um the parameters they were designed for and they were not having operational issues that was good to hear um if I could um chime in a little bit Joe hi Joe so yeah Kevin and I attended the um acting uh boxboro tours uh of the two schools there and afterwards had a discussion with the sustainability manager and then a day later had a discussion with the one of the HVAC people from acon boxor and I'll go into some of the stuff that we just learned really um and again what Karen correct both sustainability managers we spoke to confirm the buildings are on target or close to the Target numbers that they were shooting for um they also confirmed that the buildings were not uh without reliability problems and experiencing growing pains during this because they're very new schools they're only two years old um the maintenance staff in Acton um also you know because the building envelope was so tight he wasn't sure how it would do on a zero degreee day or an extended cold snap you know keep in mind that the geothermal system is running 130 degree water and although the building is very tight they were sort of concerned how how well it would do when it was down in the teenss or below zero for an extended period of time and they have had issues regulating the heat um but keep in mind also um that we have had two very mild Winters in those bu buildings are only 2 years old so something to think about the geothermal and full electric solution are not new but they're sort of new to this environment in New England and we did a little checking around and there really aren't many schools that are full electric Net Zero buildings with this that design that Acton bar Boro had in it which give gave me and Kevin pause to think about you know what are we in for for instance um so uh and that relates to you know ongoing maintenance cost and and Not Just Energy savings but um how much we spend on electricity um in the building and it is going to cost more um the um the other thing to think about is a 30-year payback on the geothermal and the the cost to go with a net zero building um is quite a bit more money and that could eat into you know the educational needs of the school district District just again Food For Thought um the other thing is they have lost some large pieces of equipment at both locations they have had like I said Growing Pains but they have lost a couple of the heat Wheels on the roof um in Acton boxboro and I believe um Watertown did concur with that they're having issues with their system also and again there growing pains right it can be attributed to Growing Pains um also another thing to keep in mind is that both Acton and muat town are still under warranty and what we really would like to look at what I would like to look at is a building that's been performing for five to 10 years to really see what the operational costs are not just an estimate based on the engineers experience which I'm sure lays a lot into that but you know a good track record five to seven years minimum um we also went ahead and I got hold of one of my counterparts in a district that's north of us um that just built a similar size elementary school and they opted to go with um condensing boilers and chilled water beams and heat wheel a heat wheel system on the roof so they did sort of what's called a hybrid system and the reason they did it of the same reasons I'm talking about is because they just couldn't they did not feel comfortable because they didn't see enough um a track record of other buildings doing similar technology in their buildings so they opted out and went that route um so at the end of the day I'm I'm presenting more or less facts that I found out uh I'm doing this just because I thought the group should know and also you know what we really probably should be thinking of based on what I I found is considering a hybrid system for our new elementary school and that's really all I have right now unless you want to add something Kevin uh may I comment thanks Joe this all U really helpful feedback and um additional leg work that you've done talking to some facilities folks I really appreciate that um I will talk to my team and see if we can find a school or if not a school than another similar type project institutional maybe of College University um with a longer track record five to 10 year track record with geothermal so um we can continue to do more due diligence on that system and is it de clarify is it the geothermal system specifically that you have the most concerns about or other systems as well anything all all electric I think all electric is one because of the resilience of the systems um you know it's not that we're not willing to um you know go with something that stateof thee OD Cutting Edge or anything like that but when I look at like how resilient um a piece of rooftop equipment is that's sitting out in the weather that's providing you with heat and ventilation it doesn't hold up to ATT test the time and I've talked to several people and where we experience it now we've been replacing units that are less than 12 years old on our buildings um and so that's one concern the other concern is um a lot of these systems the way they're designed um don't limit the amount of control that we actually would have over the building um and a lot of it has to do with occupancy sensors that control lighting and that also control the energy management system um Kevin and I will go through and do what's called a morning warmup a lot of these systems the way they're designed you can't get in there and change that because the occupancy sensor senses movement in a room a particular Wing could be in in an assembly for instance it's not going to benefit from a morning warmup unless there's movement in the room um also they've lost some major pieces of equipment that almost you know shut the schools down from what the maintenance guy and uh you know Acton was telling us um so big concerns it's it's it's there's a lot of moving parts to it I think in out years I think this this system the those systems will be much more expensive to maintain the town has an apte for that as well as in the utilities budget that's fine it's just the budgets are sort of thin definitely hear all those concerns and um this will be a great um all this information will be great to feed into the next step in um this process which is selecting doing the initial selection of um HVAC systems so at our sustainability committee on May 21st our Engineers are going to present four different systems and we've asked them to do a real range from geothermal at one side we know is the most expensive that's why we want to include it so we have it to most expensive in terms of first cost so we have that to include as as a comparison Point um you know and some hybrid options and then a more uh conventional option so um we'll have all of those to to discuss and um be able to bring in more of these data points so thank you see Mike has a hand up as you can see from here said go ahead Mike yes so um I gonna suggest the same thing Jenny did that um there may not be a lot of schools that have that five to 10 year period but maybe there are other type of buildings that are um HVAC Engineers have some experience with I would say the other thing um to keep in mind for everybody is that um we did have a couple of initial School visits and really focus on the educational side and those buildings weren't necessarily as uh green is the the last two groups that we saw and it might be worthwhile to consider going out and seeing some other buildings with other type systems and ask those folks if they have the same issues you know I I have Joe's concerns too I understand where he's coming from but you know I'll tell you my cousin has an old fridge in his basement for beer and it's still get like the Locking handle and that thing's never going to die and he's gone through three fridges upstairs in his kitchen you know since he replaced that one you know and you know just you in general things don't seem to last like they used to so um I'd be interested to see you know Joe you mentioned you talk with somebody else who has condensing boilers are they having similar type issues things like that it's important for us to get you guys as much information so that you can make these decisions the other thing I'd like to just let everybody understand is that we're not looking to ask anybody to make these decisions today or tomorrow or next week these are you know we might start roaching in the fall maybe you know some somewhere in that range Maybe later so we're going to have a lot of time to get everybody all the information you need so you can make an informed decision and um in general whether it's HVAC whether it's flooring whether it's you know whatever it is there's usually a more resilient more expensive version and there's usually a less resilient less expensive version and typically the designers probably don't end up on either extreme they find something in the middle that's more cost effective and better resilient you know might not be the absolute best resilience but it's it's it's you know that bang for the buck get that cost analysis and so we will take a deep dive down the line on not only construction costs but also operational costs maintenance costs things of that nature and we'll make sure that we get you all the information you need so that you're comfortable with that that you you have you know concrete information not just estimates and that we're really you know at that point where we need to make those decisions we we'll make sure that we we have that information for you um so you know with with that understanding I think the other thing I would like to say kind of maybe jumping back to what what John and carler had first said I think you know my impression you know architectural wise and I'm an engineer at Art I'm not I'm not necessarily a color design type person but to me the acting schools and even the Hosmer felt a little older and I think the the kind of felt more like an elementary school like I think you know if I was an act and if you had told me that was a high school you know just the general feel of it it felt more like that you know that's what I kind of felt like but I I think they all had very good parts and pieces I think the way the classrooms were broken down and the way they had bathrooms inside the classrooms for the prek and the kindergarten and the little breakout areas with the Cubbies and things like that I think it was really good for everybody to see that and I hope that that they you know that not only the committee but also the Educators everybody are getting great ideas that they can hopefully help uh express that to Jenny so her and her team can do uh did the marvelous job that they're going to did so Mike this um this information we're going to get it's going to be um after the PSR is submitted to the msba so yeah realistically I would think the end of AUST okay um because I I I was more concerned about like what the operational costs were and and I felt I kept getting the everything is great answer and when I would privately ask and dig in a little bit more I get a little bit more so and I I've been thinking about this a lot like I felt like it was a sales job in some respects um but you know we had who it's the perspective of the person who's presenting right so the energy person is going to talk about energy right and the cost person is going to talk about cost so it kind of threw me a little bit take me a little bit the process but I did feel like I wanted a bigger picture I wanted to know more about what was happening um yeah yeah one of the things the other thing that Jenny and I were just talking about yesterday Jenny suan and I is is the incentives and what are we actually going to be potentially eligible or not eligible if if that building doesn't have uh gas in it at least say for a generator say is it going to be eligible for Mass saves for example um you know so that's an important question so we're going to try and get the utility company to give us an answer on that in writing I I don't think that we're going to call them and they're going to give it to us you know oh yeah let me send that right over I think it's probably gonna have to go up the chain of command there and back down and that's an important part of this is the cost overall and what those incentives are because that certainly helps offset the initial construction values on some of the more um uh more Greener system which was typically have higher upfront costs so I I think all that important um I think when we do get into that Jenny and her team of of Engineers we we had a couple of them on the tours with us already they're going to be able to speak very highly um I I'll say at a higher level than I can about the details and about the you know the parts and pieces the other thing we do is Paul your has an actual commissioning division which does commissioning work on a lot of projects so we can actually have some of those folks come in May remember Sarah was actually on our interview team um she you know she can come in and she can uh speak to her experience and going with some of our private clients where she might be doing extended commissioning extended reviews and see what kind of History they have and you know with with maintenance and our operation and things of that nature okay Greg yeah I was just GNA make just a a sort of a general comment Joe Joe makes some great points some Salient points um that that we'll have to unpack as we go I think there's a number of call it competing interests that the engineers will will will be interested in hearing how the engineers plan to address um a couple perspectives Joe highlights is that you know in a lot of instances a lot of institutional work that I've done clients are uh conscientious of first cost with very little consideration for long-term operating costs um Pennywise and pound foolish so it's and it's an interesting point Joe brings up and and seeing proof that uh sustainable technology has a lower operating cost I think will be critical to the decision making uh one other observation is the convolution of controls and how the building automation handles various aspects and I I have seen this struggled with this myself in a recent project and the unfortunate reality is that the code the code requirements for how you make a building sustainable and try to minimize energy usage through occupancy sensors for instance um makes it very challenging and very convoluted and and there are ways to do it but it's almost a default for design Engineers to rely on those types of things to it it kind of covers the most bases in terms of how to allow the building to operate itself without a lot of human Intervention which is a little contrary to the way that Joe and Kevin operate the buildings and also doesn't give you a lot of flexibility for circumstances outside of what either a normal occupied mode or a normal unoccupied mode are there's really nothing in between so I'm I'm a big believer in the technology I'm a big believer Source heat pumps and the direction that the industry is going I think for it to make sense for us there needs to be a lot of due diligence care and concern uh exercise in in design selection specifying the equipment um because there are good ways to do it um we just we just have to be assistent upon it and do our DU diligence thank you I keep going back this is a elementary school and if these kids and staff are in there and it's too hot for them you know that just makes me nervous to think that you know the building isn't going to be cooled down enough or it's not going to be warm enough in the morning that that's you know first and foremost is an elementary school um anybody else I just want to add and um so you know Joe I'm I'm actually surprised to hear some of these comments and I know you weren't able to make it to the Watertown schools um but I I also um recognize your um point that these are new schools and you're going to be ironing out some things um you know while they're under the warranty and I understand that you have to be person responsible for that so I can appreciate that um I just want to be careful that this group doesn't bad M Sustainable Building Technologies ahead of this very careful decision process we're going to make because I've already heard some comments and it's it's not going to be helpful to the process and and I know we're going to put a lot of thought and due diligence in this and U and um you know Joe's point about our last two wiers were kind of warm and he's right and that might be the way it is but I will say so in the active box schools they did install an electric boiler as a backup so it's not electric school but they still got like a boiler and they you know they said they haven't even had to turn it on and the other thing that I took away from I think it was repeated in both school districts but I definitely heard it from um the energy manager in Watertown was that what's what they like about the system is that the envelopes are so tight that even if they were to lose power from National Grid they are counting on the building being a consistent and usable temperature 48 hours which is a which is a time so anyway I think we heard both both we heard a similar story from both school districts about you know we feel like our building envelope is so tight which is a critical part of this building design that that gives us some flexibility and you know luckily we have very little here so that's it if I can just think is that even though these two buildings were both very sustainable they both had different heating system different options think that I think that's something that everybody's going to agree on that you know we want to have as air tight buildings we can have as insulated a building as we can have if there's you know sometimes it's short money to increase your r value by an extra you know factor or something like that and and I think that that is something where I think everybody will be getting on once the walls corrupt is really hard to do better installation down the line but you know systems are something that we're going to replacing every 20 or 30 or 40 Years anyway right you know there's going to be life cycles on those things so um I think if we can all keep that in mind and and it did take kind of front and center on a lot of these discuss but we were looking at schools too right so I think um let's keep that in mind let's also keep in mind that you know whatever we can do to make these envelopes as tighty as they can to your point you can shut down the power and not feed anything into these buildings and they they can last for quite a long time now you put a a a small generator in there to give some supplemental heating or or cooling you might not be able to operate the building like as you know with with kids in the building but you're not going to be worried about I could just um just mention um I think that I think that the conversation is awesome I think this this type of of feedback is is great um I know there's probably a lot of other building committees that would just sort of roll through with someone recommended this don't don't question it don't ask questions um a couple meetings ago I think Lee mentioned that that we had a little bit of um we have he was getting different feedback on like an electric building um my comment on the original um the the the charter um was that I didn't think uh an electric building was a good goal um I didn't think it was the right or wrong thing I didn't think it was a good goal because I think you know the goal should be to build sustainably and responsibly and go through a process and absolutely I don't think there's any bad Mel about anything I think it's excellent that we're having these conversations and it's just it's just a lot of good debate um so I think I think it's great I only went to the AC boxboro um school I didn't make it to the the Watertown schools I kind of had some I did certainly um did not have the same impression as as John C but I did have some of the on the architectural end I did have some of that um some of that vibe from that school um but a couple other things um Carla couple things on the envelope the envelope is going to be tight no matter what heating system we use it's going to be a super tight envelope it's the way things are built now and that's that's going to be you know a great asset to the building um and whatever heating system we end up with the the kids aren't going to be freezing and the kids aren't going to be too hot the system is going to work I I guarantee that the other thing I guarantee is that there's 10% of the people that go in that building going to complain about the HVAC um regardless of what temperature make it regardless of what control system it has 10 10% of the people in that building are either going to be too cold or too hot that's just the uh that's the that's that's the reality of a building anywhere but I think it's great great conversation to ask questions and and challenge what we're thinking um to make sure that everyone um at LBA and Colliers are are thinking really hard about this so we get the best product we can for the town thanks and and you brought up the charter and I was look through the charter and the sustainability goals and this conversation is right on target with both of them right we're looking into all these systems and seeing what's most comat compatible for for our school and for our um our town so thank thank you everyone for the conversation okay LBA you have the floor yes I I should say thank you for the submission what a huge job a huge undertaking it's it's been all the work that everybody has participated in over the past how many months in this one document so it was actually really nice to see it all in one place and laid out so thank you very much thank you very much Carla um it was quite a beast I forgot what the page count was but that's without the appendix okay um quick rundown of we have completed we talked about the SBC um site visits um the PDP draft um included in that PDP draft was also the educational program which Tom and his team have put a huge amount of effort into and I know that um that Ed in particular gave that a close read and had some questions um which is always um actually gratifying I know when you've done put a lot of work into something that someone actually reads it um we've also completed the geot investigation the field work is done the final report is expected tomorrow and I I'm going to give you a little um preliminary summary of the findings and we've completed the preliminary the PDP cost estimate that was included in the PDP report um on our schedule um we are this fancy star here mean that we're voting today um on this acceptance of PD report which will be submitted on the 20th then we're going to start the PSR phase and the msba is going to take an ungodly amount of time to review this document so they're going to be reviewing and then there's going to be a district response period um so that according to our schedule and the msba doesn't uh commit to how long their review period is going to be so it could be shorter and I was like they said we don't think it would be more than eight weeks so so this is not a set in stone but we think by the end of July we'll have that PDP acceptance but then we'll actually be submitting the PSR at the end of August so um we'll be working on both these tracks at the same time both reviewing and responding to the comments on the PDP as well as moving ahead to the PSR um and what the PSR is is at the end of the PSR we'll have a preferred option so the whole time between now and ESR is we currently have 10 options so our job from between now and and August is to get that down to one option um and we will take you through that um okay so the geotechnical investigation um they did the field work on April 19th and 22nd they did eight um borings oh you can see um this is the map of where they did the borings oh that's on the other side um so the one finding um that was not um great U but not necessarily unexpected is that they did find um fill and buried organic soils at depths between 2 feet and 8 ft and what that means is that that um soil is not suitable for for structural fill so we can't have any of it underneath the building footprint so it will need to be removed from anywhere The Bu bu is going to be and replaced with structural fill um and that cost has been incorporated into this first cost estimate um the groundwater was um at six feet below grade so um that's be good in terms of we'll have to have some dewatering during construction but we won't need to be concerned about a lot of groundwater incursion and the preliminary Foundation recommendation is a shallow Foundation which is good because that's um the least expensive option questions about geotechnical before I move on what was the deepest B hole was it sorry 23 they didn't go down deep to check suitability of geothermal they didn't go they did not yeah that yeah just uh just if this is Lee I don't know if you can hear me um as we we said on one of those site visits um we should probably at some point especially if we're considering GE you can do geothermal test well um but it costs a certain amount of money 30,000 or more you know around there you can use it later on but that's how you find the final capacity of it so if you get serious about geothermal in the next couple of months we're going to want to um push that through and do that test well Mike Carol I'm sure you agree because that tells you how many Wells you would need and how much it would really cost and that'll help you make decisions thank you thanks um I had here the the basically the table of contents of the PVP report um would it be a good use of our time to go through just to kind of review what is in the report okay um I wasn't sure if it was like oh we've all read it already but um so we have an introduction um basically introduction um as the project directory and this project schedule um the educational program which is the piece that Tom and his team wrote um section three is the initial space summary so that's those um space summary templates that's the list of every space in um the proposed project um and that also we include the existing core plans then section four is the evaluation of existing conditions which we reviewed a couple of meetings ago um um so that includes um property development restrictions like Wetlands um code analysis the existing building analysis um structural Building Systems Technology site the landscape the traffic the geotechnical the environmental the Hazardous Materials right all this you know analysis of what are the existing conditions um then and section five is about site development so we provid the site plans and the narrative that basically describes what each of these um 10 or I guess it's site plan options are six site plan options then the preliminary evaluation of Alternatives I have a few more slides to talk a bit more about that but we've um proposed um a a a set of um metrics upon which to evaluate these um options and we can talk about whether those are the right metrics or whether there are other criteria actually I guess criteria is a better word criteria that we should use um so we have kind of a preliminary comparison of them um but our conclusion and recommendation um is is basically to move forward with all of the options except for the renovation only option which like doesn't make make make any sense all I would if I may I this have a aoft spot here um these preliminary options have not been overly analyzed we wanted to show them to you because we're at that stage where we're just kind of doing diagramming and so we show a chart because the msba asks us to but we also keep it purposefully ambiguous as to what is what is best and what is not because it's almost impossible at this at this stage to grade something probably um think of it as a draft way of looking at it but please don't take any you know checks or minuses or you know too seriously right now our best guess the second that this is in and we start evaluating these options more carefully that's what we will do with you thank you um and then section seven is um basically a letter saying from from the town and the superintendent and this board saying that we have reviews and approve it and this is our submission and then it includes all the agendas and the minutes um of the meetings that we've had and then in the appendices um we have some msba documents um we have the educational visioning report um prepared by our by Mike pero we have um meeting minutes from the programming and then we have a couple of reports that were just excessively long to include in the body of the main report um and then the estimate any questions about the content of the report and I have like I said a few more slides about the evaluation of Alternatives I'd like to get in my own mind what what what stage we're at um if we see things in what is being what is being shown on the diagram which we don't like um that doesn't matter at this stage right it's everything's still up for discussion everything because there are things in there which I think are wrong but um I don't want to raise them at this stage if there's plenty of opportunity down the road to the do that um are you talking about design things or report things um um specifically traffic circulation okay I think the getting the entrance into the site and the exit to the site at the same location is kind of a fundamental error uh from the safety point of view okay I would much prefer to see a loop yeah and none of those show a loop yeah and I think with with that one you have which goes around there difficulty in snow plowing in Winter where do you put the snow um on the path next to it know if you have a loop you can put it on the other side from the path um and I just think fundamentally that's a that's a design issue which I would oppose yeah um but I don't want to raise it now if there's plenty of time to raise it later on well um I would say generally um do give us continuous feedback when you have things like that because it's always better to to have feedback earlier um it's always easier to make a change earlier rather than later and this is a great point you raised and we've actually been working on an option that has a Loop Road thank you so we're on the same page well good ideas are good ideas yeah I I I think the you know fire trucks would have a have a time trying to get around that yeah C saac there but um that's actually what that's what caused us to re-evaluate it so quickly was because we with the fire and they actually we talked about how difficult that was for for them and we responded yeah but even so I think you know trying to separate the traffic going in from traffic coming out from a safety point of view on the street is is really a big big deal you know people can get confused about how's going house coming out turning left turning right um if we can simplify that um I think we're ahead of the game yeah great suggestion thank you guys um I thought I have these in a different order but fine okay then I wanted to respond to a couple I got some feedback from John written feedback from John and Ed um and I'm not going to respond to every point there was a few um that were gently pointing me to errors that I made and I appreciate that so we don't need to review those I'll just update it um and correct it and um but there were a couple things I thought were worthy of discussion um so John recomended that we add an item to the sustainability goals being um uh prefer uh materials or maybe we would say select materials that are recyclable at the end of their life so if there's no um OB from anyone we can add that yeah let let me explain that I'm thinking about the existing school when it's demolished the only thing that's going to be saved is the steel basically metals are infinitely recyclable um you can't destroy a metal you just melt it down and start again um other materials are not wood is not wood is about the worst thing so although wood you know we talk about wood as being a preferred material in terms of sustainability in the long term metal is probably better because you can reuse it would you just have to dump it or burn it or do something with it so um I don't want to I don't want our sustainability goals to drive us towards wood because it has a better carbon footprint initially I think in the long term Metals probably have a better carbon footprint in the long term so that's where I'm coming from um and I I would say that this all also applies to all the interior materials that we try to do sustainable materials that are do have a high recycled both recycled content in them and are able to be recycled like carpet squ and things like that that they actually you can actually move them and switch them and all things like that there's a lot of new materials that way um another great comment was um whether the geothermal system is actually viable because of the limited land area and where would we locate those Wells so that the system would be ready to run on day one when the school opens which of course it would have to be um this is a great question and the we don't know we need to do more study in this and we will start let me explain that again because the only place that I could see to put geothermal Wells was under the new building there's nowhere else on the site when the existing building remains in in operation that you can put those wells in the ground so if we're if we're thinking of putting the new wells under the EX under the new structure that's fine that's technically possible but it's probably not too desirable um I don't know you can put them we complet John we completely agree I think we've talked about it before as a complet we completely agree with you and having had experience with it see the uh the issues for sure I'm almost I'm almost at the point of thinking geothermal is for our sight a nonstarter I mean I'm throwing this out as a radical view right now but um and I I usually do that but reput um well you know I'm always thinking it's not not a study it's not an option it's not an option for us um to take seriously because of the constructibility issue the sequence of constructive construction um there's no place the if I can John I that would that was where I was going to suggest to you know just not to get into a deep discussion on this but where the wells are going to end up and the final is actually the easier question how are we going to build it with the kids on the site and if we are going to consider that then one of the considerations might be do we have a way to move the kids off the site take that old building down and actually do those well so that's certainly part of the discussion that's part of the process of evaluation of the systems and of the options and and and and I think that would be a serious part of of that option would be figuring that part of it out so just in um openness um I have been calling places to um to just check this out um I hesitant to put it out there in the public which it is now but it's just something it's part of the process it's a part of us being diligent um to see if we can move the students so I'm kind of going through that process now and calling different places so we I'll let you know if we have something to share if it's it's going to be if it could be an option just having all of the information able to make better decisions it's the goal what what's the the concept there that we the students would have to go somewhere else for a year or two during that phase right if we had a clean site what would we be able to do with it what are the benefits of it how do the costs weigh out but just having that as an option right potentially um something we would think about they did both in swamp Scott and um in Water Town definitely at the kip I'm not sure about the cosmer and K only yeah K yeah and in both um situations that they went to a parochial school my correct me if I'm wrong a parochial school that had closed yes yeah that's correct and Watertown actually did it with the with the low school as well that was their third school that we didn't visit because that was a renovation project um but they did two of the three schools they they M the students how long did they have to do that is it two years Mike so at a high level again we have to kind of figure this out but the thought here would be if we move the students out we could right now our our our round numbers that we're talking about is a 24 months construction of the new building and then about a 12 month removal of the old building and in finishing the fields and parking lots and everything like that if we were to a able to be moving the students out on day one you can start the demo at the same time as you're starting the construction so you're basically cutting that 12 months off now the other thing that we would want to start thinking about is could we potentially do some early packages on switch gear things of that nature and can we try and get that 24 months down to maybe 18 or something in that range it depends on the exact size of the building and and the overall scope of the work um that early package thing could come about whether we mov students off or not so it's it's it's either or but right now the the schedule that we have is 36 months and we might be able to get that down to 18 in in a in a best case scenario something like that so uh this is Le just for a second this kind of applies to everything that's being said I want to um I want you never none of you to ever give up hope on something because the truth is that we really the only thing I've learned in this business is I never really quite know until I've looked at it um you have to kind of draw it you have to look at it here's a story from Swamp Scott for the longest time on the site that we ended up building on we had we the the the um impression was that we had to keep the existing building on site and work around it and build the building over time it became so apparent that that we playing the building in the wrong spot on the site and the cost and the and the and the disruption was so damaging that they finally near the end started to look at the idea of tearing down the building which was very uncomfortable for many people but then then they figur but they did figure it out especially with the superintendent and they did it and I know that the building is in a better location now because of it much better because it's going to be there forever and that um they figured it out and it's much less disruption to the students and the families it was hard work but so let's go through those processes let's go through and look at um people to lay out a geothermal system and how many Wells they could do with her without the building there let's go through those those little things it'll be over the next couple of months and then we'll figure it out and um if somebody's right then we'll give them a quarter and somebody's wrong they owe me a quarter and but I just want to I just want to um keep saying I'm I'm so I'm wrong so often that I just have learned to just do the work okay so that um conversation that discussion also touches on the next item which is um John asked if we should not just eliminate option e um because swinging the whole school off site is not a viable option but I would recommend that we keep option E I thought it was written somewhere that it would be looked at and it was no it was no go I thought somewhere in that report it said you looked at it and you couldn't do it is that not true having building the school somewhere else is not an option for us men Ming the students we're looking into that okay I thought you I thought the report said you had looked into that and it was not there was no way to move this to move I'll double that okay right joh I think the report says that the current District buildings cannot support moving the students that's why we're looking at other Alternatives you mean outside of town just what what what other options are out there that's correct yeah you like like swamp in in in in uh in Watertown found a a close baral school so we're just checking to see is there something like that in town in an adjacent you just again what we're trying to do whether this is a viable option or not we want to make sure that we at least examined it and we didn't just dismiss it that we actually did the research on it and we we you know if somebody asked did you check into this we can say absolutely we did and it wasn't an option or it was an option I think when you talk about viability it's not whether it's technically possible but whether it would be acceptable to the Kil School Community you know they we have we have a way of building the new school on the existing site and keeping the old school in operation you know there's no question that that can be done so why would we want to give a great deal of um problem heartache to The Killing parents and by moving their kids to some somewhere in lynfield or something like that it seems to me it wouldn't it's not it's really psychologically from the town's point of view there'd be too much opposition I'll give I'll give you since I'm kind of spearheading it and pushing it a little bit just to check it out um my thought is you want to see were able to you know certainly wouldn't move kids so Windfield right if if there was a place in town or in the neighboring Town some some place that was close by well linfield's a neighboring Town yeah very close right the closest town to K North ring right I don't think so but okay so let's see if we have a site first of all how much would it cost to outfit it and and get it ready um what construction cost how much time would you know if we could have the kids in a location for one year rather than a threeyear construction cycle or you know two and a half year construction cycle the neighbors would be happy because we wouldn't have um all that confusion in the area the parents wouldn't have to have that extra bit of time to get on and off the sites with all the changes in the communication um the kids could be in a better building than the one they're in now possibly with a better vent system with a nicer space um for a year rather than being in a new school that much sooner um and and even with our Landscaping piece of it you could do the site work quicker the Landscaping piece of it we would be planting plants at a better time than if we kept the kids on site not building on site so but we don't know because we have to check it out see what it costs um and the benefits are to it so but surely it would be much more than a year I don't see how you can think of it as a year potentially um I 12 to 15 months for the kids to be off site was what Mike and I talked about I'm very skeptical about that that's like well if you if you started 18 months John and you started it right as the kids got out two two summers wor is is six months of that mons or 18 months so I think that's where car is looking at you know is it a year is it 12 you know 13 months but it's that that would be the best case I'm going to uh just say one more time and I'm gonna say the exact same thing I have learned to listen to Mike Carroll who you guys hired even though he's supposed to be my swor enemy um because he builds a lot of buildings in these places and he knows that there are ways to save money with scheduled time and thing and construction that I don't always know for sure and I am open to him going through that process and finding out for us what they think um only because it may be I don't know it may be better or it might be much worse and I would agree with that we we may find it is much much worse in the end but we have to go the process great um and then just a tiny comment wow um Ed asked what is the wow Center and I'll include this in the report it's the world of wonder which is their outdoor environmental science area little Courtyard so we we want need to make sure that every project has we save the wow center it's very important um Ed also had um a bunch of feedback on the program um that I just included in here did you want to resp Tom yeah and thank you Ed for providing some feedback on this too and also just I want to give a quick thank you to uh many members of our team who helped put this together which is as you know a lengthy document special thanks lindsy colon principal who put a lot of work into this and also liun our office to help compile and organize everything um and Mike pero the educational consultant who helped us kind of work through all this together with multiple iterations of feedback couple of questions that and comments at Ed ra on lunch programs you'll see in the design there's a um there's like a small adjacent room to the um to the cafeteria that is not uh adding on non-reimbursable Space uh what it actually is is just us using sort of the potential reimbursable space a little bit differently we're seeing a lot of new builds having these separate spaces for students who may need something different with sensory needs or with social emotional needs um the other question on here too was like allowing you know the schedule which is on there having two versus three lunches uh the reason why we had two lunches wrist on there is that's sort of what msba how they calculate the allowable cap space so we a lot of times we'll see them end up shifting to sort of using three lunches but for now we have it on there too because that's sort of how msba is calculated the the space we some questions Ed had around like media Visual Arts and Performing Arts uh none of those are in situations we're looking to add any new staff members or change any special so not looking to add a new type of art class or a new type of media class all of the kind of information that we have in there is around um kind of helping for people later on in the process to guide like Architects and more the design phase of what that's going to look like but there's no nothing in there that we're looking to change kind of currently what's happening with offerings for students um you'll see we've stayed in line with what the uh msba standards space in both the media center visual uh visual art in Visual Arts room performing art space and then the only exception to that is around the gym so we've had a lot of conversation around the gym um currently you you see 30 3700 square feet msba reimburse 6,000 square feet we work closer with reading wreck to kind of think about what space do we think we really need from like a also from a town perspective to support a lot of Youth activities added on additional thousand sare feet which would not be reimbursable allow us to kind of move the space out to be able to add I think it was about 250 seats bers yeah bleacher seats uh and Al all kind of on the sideline there too um so that would bring us up to the 7,000 square feet which we thought was sufficient for from Reading Rec perspective as well in terms of spacing so those are the majority of the comments on Ed program but happen answer questions that people as well um yeah I just wanted to open the floor if there's any other comments um on the or the PDP report no 6000 re thanks um and then uh I just wanted to touch um quickly on the evaluation of Alternatives um so these are the 10 these are options even though there's five on the screen because um the first a through D have two enrollment options so it's A1 which is the full enrollment of prek and A2 which is the partial prek so on and so forth so these are the um 10 options that we're moving forward with the A's are the addition renovation options which we or nobody really thinks is a great idea but we're required to study that um and carry that forward the bees which we could think of as the most compact option it uses the least amount of sight area and is in the B1 is taller it's a three story version the C's um uh are uh a a two-story option in both the seed even in the full enrollment scenario um that requires no demolition of the existing building and then the D's um are our attempt to have a um a thinner floor plate so that more areas have better natural light um but that does require demolition of a wing of the existing building to achieve that and then the e was our um the reason we included e was to study and understand what would we do if there were no building on the site what would be kind of the optimal configuration and we think it's very similar to D and if um the result of This research and study that we're doing is that we there is no you know swing space is not a good idea then will eliminate option e and see if there's any ideas from that that we can or should incorporate into option D so those are so thank you H one one interesting thing I just want to bring up just a kind of push pole sort of idea is that you just visited um two or three elementary schools and every single one of them was three stories now you could argue hey this it was one was Suburbia but away from the street one of them was uh and the other two were in the city but they were all three stories as opposed to two stories so you see that as possible and um I just wanted to bring that up in terms of of react you know when you start to see other examples how it may change your mind or it may not your mind we're open to any of it thanks L and then this is our um preliminary um criteria and scoring so we selected these criteria from the project Charter and the project goals that we developed at the beginning of the process but also we tried to select criteria that would actually reveal a difference between the options so I think we we have one or two on here that are there's no difference so we could say well what's the point of having that criteria and I'll when I go through them I'll explain why we it it um so the the criteria are um under built around a student um meaning as a as a general concept just putting Education First right in the design of the the project so one criteria we have is um the success of the classroom neighborhood whether they um are are clear and separate um and ideally don't require walking through other classroom neighborhoods to get to a classroom neighborhood that would kind of be our ideal idea of a classroom neighborhood how successful is that and then the rating on here is a minus is a not so good the zero or the O is kind of a neutral um it's like check achieving it and the plus is you know extra points A+ I think there needs to be a key on it I think you're right did you say there were 10 models yes there's nine seven eight n nine sure yeah because we never did a double for uh e yeah because what the only difference between it and D is the hey didn't you tear down the whole building yeah I'm sorry extensive demo this is a this is a two story building it's a two building is the extensive demo thanks um so the next option under built around the student or the next Criterion is um educational spaces and that's just how successful are the educational spaces in terms of daylight and in terms of adjacencies um Community centered what is the cost um and cost value balance um we know that the cost is very important for the community um what is the how appropriate is the building for the neighborhood context um probably a twostory building and one that has a a massing that is um that appears smaller and more contextual would be more um contextual um the quality of outdoor space do we have the the size and adjacencies of of fields and playgrounds that we want to get um what is the um potential for Energy Efficiency now this has so much to do with um the design of the envelope and the building system so you kind of say at this level they all have a pretty equal opportunity to be equally energy efficient and is there a difference in terms of ease of maintenance and life cycle cost um on safe safety and health what is the traffic and access do we have enough um what is the amount of parking the um you know ease of access um sufficient fire lanes and widths of bus lanes and and service and things like that um is the building safe and secure that's one I felt like we should include because it was very important even though I think there's no difference between the options on that but I just um want to include it as a Criterion because I do think it's important and then how much phasing and disruption will a particular option incur and then um on a sense of belonging um how warm and welcoming is is the building um that has a lot to do with um the sequence of arrival and also whether it's two stories or three stories we think the feedback we've gotten is that a twostory option would be seen as a more a warmer and more welcoming building um and then scale and character um does it feel like an elementary school um and that also has to do with uh the number of stories um I just have a question yes um A1 and A2 seem to be um hitting a lot of negative specifically A1 you just go back and just visualize it yeah that's the addition renovation gotta that makes sense thank you very much why does E1 get a zero for scale and character shouldn't it be a plus as well it's a neutral neutral why does e get a neutral isn't that the like deluxe design I think you're right I think that's correct I think it's I agree with that it should be the exact same as D because it is the same as d correct but I I will also say once again that that the these are these These are the think of this as a draft for the criteria and a draft of the scoring system there was a time when Jenny at first had actual numbers and had like ratings and all that and I made her change it because at this point it's just not that specific and the truth is that whenever we do something like this cost and Val for example cost and value May in the long run be worth four of the other ones do you know what I mean or scale might be worth two of the other ones they're not all exactly equal and so we can't really just apply a if you apply just a an arbitrary number to each one you don't really get what is you it has to be a little more art than that and we will get there together so we're going to continue to tune this adjust this make sure we have the right criteria and the right um that we're ranking them correctly and and waiting them correctly as Lee said um but this is the first pass at that and any feedback is welcome now or later um so next steps from here we'll submit the PDP on May 20 we have us we're going to present to the select board on May 21st sustainability committee is going to meet on May 21 and again in July to get um going on that system selection which we've um been talking about and then the next SBC meetings um are um continuing this discussion of evaluation of Alternatives um there's a final evaluation of Alternatives after that we'll do the PSR cost estimate and then um for uh then we'll have a joint meeting with um the town committees and then August 5th we'll have the Revis cost estimates um for PSR and that'll be the time to when the preferred solution is selected um then we also have upcoming Community meetings on July 15th and April 11th and that is all I have so you you have two meetings on May 21st right sustainability and select day time and evening time okay so not okay all right that was my question and I think I have um that April 11th date is not correct that's there's no I mean we're past April 11 so just just ignore that there's another community meeting but it's not yeah it's I believe it's July 11 sorry June 11 I don't think that's I have August a listed yeah I'm just gonna I'm just gonna this this off and uh that's just as far as I've listed them that's it okay yeah please back yeah when you say demo or demo at the comp one are we also including the mod we demo um um options c d and e would all require relocation of the modellers um I'm not calling that demo um but we are accounting for that in our cost estimates and our planning including all the water and gas CS everything that's going that yeah all of them all of them are kind of like you have to during construction you have to kind of like move them like that and yeah it is in the cost estimate during construction and then of course we get rid of them all together because they're horrible where they're not good they're actually some of the best rooms we have in [Laughter] the I know you're not kidding teachers love them they're some of the best ones we have in the district all electric all oh and they're all electric well okay I misspoke um they are beloved and cherished by all think something we want to just rush andage them right it may be something we need to move to a different location after the fact or something else so over what was that Karen I was gonna say just please don't back over them I about that okay turn it back to you thank you honestly thank you um Lee Jenny thank you much nice presentation excellent job excellent I I've said it before I'll say it again you you listen and and you react to what people say and we really appreciate it um thank you my agenda okay um we are going to vote Karen you have a motion or would you like me to say it hang on let me un don't believe I have any motions I'll make it you know what you go ahead and I'll still move you how's that I I motion to approve the pdb submission for a second and we will take a roll call vote Karen yes John yesk yes Ed no Greg yes yes Nancy yes Carla yes and it passes perfect thank you very much everyone um and if we and if anybody has further comments are they still sending them to you up until the 20th or sending them through Jackie they send me comments okay if anybody has any other comments if you're further reviewing it guarantee um do you have any other you don't have any other report today n um we'll move along to the OPM report and the financials um I Mike is he still on that's I am on but I I can't share can you share yeah I cannot okay needs to spend a minute joining the zoom meeting okay um but I can talk about it in the meantime so there's Jackie oh thank you thank you Jackie um so there has been no uh budget adjustments um or any changes to the commitments that means there are no um amendments or changes to contracts so far um the only thing we have to report is the two invoices um for the month of March which is for cers and for LBA um for our um fusibility uh services and um I believe that total is um about 20,000 for um and then um 21,000 for LBA and we are on schedule andly under budget okay so we are going to um vote to I move to approve the project invoicing from um 48 through 410 Second then by Karen and we will have a roll call vote Karen yes yes yes yes yes Nancy yes and Carla yes and it passes thank you everyone um and we're going to has everybody had a chance to look at the 48 U meeting minutes I'll take that as a yes um vote to approve the April 8th 2024 meeting minutes Karen sorry any discussion I should have see none Karen yes John yes K yes Pat yes Nancy yes and Carla yes and that vote passes thank you everyone um future agenda items anybody have any agenda item are itching to get in there our next uh meeting up quickly 17th 201 so you're going to see um your calendars populated because we just um we just scheduled out or re-evaluated our schedule and we're in the process of scheduling out all of our meetings through the end of the summer and then we'll take that in July we'll take that next chunk so you'll see um your calendars being populated with XLT meetings for those of XLT people and um the SBC meetings so um you'll see those soon Jackie is going to be doing that we just kind of she just kind of kept us all in line and uh we got that that scheduled it is June 17th is the next one June June 17th is our next meeting then for designers our agenda will be to um continue the evaluation of Alternatives and continue that discussion so um just along those lines um the there's no public Outreach for for for those evaluations of Alternatives people are just invited to this meeting so we will have um I think our next community meeting is July 8th yeah yeah okay that will be part of it that's right 15th you're right it's been it's been every every day in July that's right um so that will be the topic of Comm of discussion of that community meeting is um evaluating the Alternatives we we would like you to be very comfortable with with the ones you've sub Chosen and and um revised before we put them out there for comments yeah and with the the criteria and the ratings before we put that out great that's exciting we're gonna have something to focus on right I'd love that Jackie I I just have to express how wonderful it is when Jackie puts out these me things they just automatically populate your calendar can I can I ask if um we would also have Jackie populate our calendar with the community meetings and also with the two sustainability meetings I know we may not all be attending but um certainly for the community meetings that that could help the team and would just helped me personally for the sustainability meetings I think we got the yeah I've sent a meeting for the sustainability did you not get that Karen I don't think it's popular you know what I can't I can't even tell you how many emails I get this is why I'm drowning and so Jackie prepopulates it into the calendar otherwise I am scrolling through like way too many emails so okay you probably did and I'm just asking for a little extra help all right we'll help you out thank you okay um I'm motion anybody motion to adour Second it by Pat Karen yeah you have to say something Lee are you saying goodbye or you raising her hand to speak no I'm saying goodbye you haven't voted yet before we vote great job on that LBA and Colliers that that can tell a ton of work went into that great job thank youg yes Pat yes Nancy yes Carla yes thanks everyone thank you thank you have a good night