e e e e e e good evening I call the June 6th killum School bill bu committee to order sorry for the delay we were waiting for a quorum June 17 June 17 thank you um and we will do we have members online so we're going to do a roll call vote um Karen yes John yep uh Kirk no Kirk Sarah no Sarah no Ed no Greg um Pat here Nancy here and Carla here so um thank you everyone I will quickly review our agenda we are open to public comment if there is any we will do leaon reports the OPM team is going to give us an update um on Staffing we'll hear from our designers and talk about the PSR process and sustainability updates then we'll go into the OPM report for financials and talk about um total project budget we'll review warrants and invoices approve um our 59 prior meeting minutes and talk about next meeting updates so we will start with public comment we have nobody in the audience um and Caitlyn is helping us out tonight um Caitlyn do we have anybody online um no just staff great thank you okay so we'll go on to um leaon reports nothing really I will mention to the committee that we did get an answer back from National Grid that our policy is not to fund new construction like really took you six months to come up with the policy thank you but so so that's kind of where we're at now but I guess we'll address this in the sustainab builing working group okay thank you y um and I will do a shout out um to Ed um Ross for a financial Forum that we had on May 28th it was great to get everybody together to talk about all of the different um priorities in the town so we presented for killum project and we um there was a presentation for um their senior center project and for our CPA so it was good to get that dialogue going so thanks Ed um and we'll go on to the OPM updates just before I get into that one other thing that I thought might fall in the as on reports we're going to be talking a little bit about the pillars in a little bit do we want to mention that or we'll just do it when we get to the the uh commitment um you know what we can't there are two typ do you want to mention it um under the under the financial yeah that's fine let's do it um and in case we want to show that video Caitlyn's prepared to show the video okay perfect out um I'm sorry pat pat do you have any update or report uh no I don't thank you um so we'll follow up with some exciting news all right so um for those of you in the room you can see Shirley is here today um I I'd like to introduce her we're we're proposing to make a slight adjustment on our team uh bringing Shirley in to be the project manager of the Prime contact that would work with the design team with the contractor again as Project Director I would continue to work with you folks but um surely we'll also be doing a lot of the day-to-day with the staff and things like that you know a lot of the the work we've been doing all along I think we had an initial meeting with Carla tin to Shirley and then uh Matt was there as well and I think through various meetings she started to meet some other folks but I'd like to maybe give her an opportunity here just to kind of give a little bit of her background and and I I will just say that we're very happy to have her join our team and hope hopefully joining your team as well uh do you need me to stand I'm good sitting down good evening every everyone it's nice to meet you all um my background is in architecture I went to school for my underg guided Masters at uh wwor University now um and I recently just came from Brown University I've been there for five to seven years uh did a lot more project fit outs and Renovations there and actually I specialized in move management prior to there as well so I can help you guys there but um I'm really excited to be here and uh looking forward to working with you all so welcome thank you and I I will say that um we really thank Susanna for all the work that she's put in and um we know that she is available if we have any information to pass along and we're really excited to have you on board yeah and just for the record Susanna is sticking with our company she's still always available she's actually been helping both of us kind of with the transition here as well and she's going to continue to support us as as needed yeah she's great I've been talking to her on the sideline as well great thank you thanks Micha thank you so the the process for the msba is that we are going to send a formal letter requesting this with an updated or chart to Matt as the town manager um he then has to send a letter to the msba basically accepting that so we'll send you a draft of that as well so that that'll help with that um but it's not technically required but we often request that the school building committee vote to kind of support that that decision if that's acceptable to you so that you you kind of support Matt's moving that along sure and and we'll also along with that letter Matt we'll update um the form and then you're not actually listed on the form but um we have you have a new title Matt has a new title on that form so we'll update that form and send that all along perfect to them at the same time yeah and if you if you want we can work with on that if you send it Direct that's fine if you want to send it to us we'll send it to make sure we get the acknowledgement back because it's a it's a two-way street there we got to send it to them but we also have to make sure we get something back for them acknowledging it so and and and that's what we're trying to do moving forward just to kind of create our own little policy is everything we have to send to the msba if it can go through call years because then they can track it and make sure that it's done we're chasing it you don't have to chase it you we'll get it and we'll get it back to you be one of those in my life I know we all to and we have the form too I know that Jackie has problem excellent that over so we should do a vote on this right um so let's formulate um I move to accept um Shirley ing as our new project manager for um callers second and we'll do a roll call vote some discussion first thank you okay any discussions yeah I just want to put out there to the committee I don't anticipate this will happen very often but I want to suggest that um that the next time we need to have a change that it comes to the full committee rather than the full committee catching up I think it's significant enough we only have four major so far four and maybe it'll get bigger but I just say in the future like do this process where the full committee with lots of voting members um you know weigh in and and then and then the rest of the process seems fine and straightforward would that um if it comes to the full committee that may not be convenient in terms of meetings you know may be a month's wasted time as it were um well the I don't think these that's a great point also there's you know some sensitivity issues so as I said I don't think this is going to happen very often but I can definitely say that you know these plans were made over good 60 days um so hopefully it won't happen again but I just think just just kind of a heads up that it really needs to come to the full committee and and then maybe we do executive session if it's necessary but anyway trying to go with the flow but your point as well think any other discussion and we're ready for the vote Pat yes Karen yes John yes Nancy yes Carla yes welcome thank you thank you very much uh so with that I'm going to turn it over to the designer they're going to uh do the PSR process and sustainability update uh Lea Jenny I'm happy to share that if that makes it easier or if one of you are going to share that's fine as well I have it queued up I'll go ahead and share thank you okay so um just to run through the tasks that we've completed um since our last meeting we've um wrapped up a couple of um testing items that were outstanding we completed a hydrant flow test um I'll report out to you in a few slides on these later in my deck we've completed um environmental soil testing we've um received the final report for the geotechnical investigation and we are working on the HVAC system selection and I will share with you more information about that and um we are revising site plans based on um writing fire department um access requirements and we have a meeting with them later this week um this is a look at our schedule um msba is currently reviewing the PDP submitt they don't give us a firm timeline on when uh on how long that review will take but we think at the outside it should be um 60 days so we're expecting that back sometime in July um and then just kind of looking at what we're going to be doing during this um PSR phase days that we are just starting is um our goal is um to select a preferred option in August and in the interim we have um I keep forgetting how many options but 10ish um our goal uh in the interim is to um see if we can reduce the number of options by um you know eliminating some that are um we think are not the preferred option for various reasons and um the more we eliminate the more time we can focus on improving the options that that remain so we can put more effort into refining those plans um starting to develop the architectural expression [Music] Etc um and then we will be preparing the um planning to have the approved graft ESR or approved the draft PSR Report with SBC on August 12th so this is um a look ahead at the SBC meetings and the agendas um so um next month in July we hope to be um be able to reduce some options and also have a discussion and hopefully maybe we'll be ready to reduce some options on 3K enrollment um issue we're hoping to also have the msba PDP feedback by then but that's um kind of out of our control um the 22nd we're currently holding in case an additional SPC meeting is needed to reduce more options um but if it's not needed we can eliminate that and meet on August 5th to select the preferred option and at that time we will also be sharing the findings and recommendations for the hbac system and then on the 12th the approving draft refera report so Jenny just a quick question on that sharing the finding for the HVAC we're not saying we're picking an HVAC at that point we're just kind of giving an update right that that's not tied to the selection of the option or is it uh if we are um I'm hoping that we will be able to select the AC system our intent is to have all the information that are is needed to make that selection um it's possible that the SBC will decide that they need more information okay but the int is to make the selection yeah which is a little earlier than the usual timing for that for that decision Jen can I ask a question regarding that um you know one of the options is obviously geothermal but we have minimal information concerning geothermal properties of the site uh we have no deep bore hole so we don't know where the rock is if there is Rock I hope do there Rock sooner or later um we know that uh you know this part of the world we has a particular characteristic in terms of heat um it's a low enthropy area it's not you know we don't live in Iceland places like that so but I'm not sure that we can make a rational decision on G on the geothermal without having some more information you know and we're not going to have that by August the 12th or what it is so how would you see that fits in with the with the scheme um you might be right um I would suggest that we um discuss that in the um next sustainability committee meeting which which you're a part of and kind of evaluate whether we are ready to make a recommendation and if we are not then we are not I think either way it would be a great opportunity to have some updates on that if we're ready to make the decision I I I think we can absolutely but if we're not ready maybe we we yeah talk about those at that point the decision the decision might be um you know that more further investigation should be done on the geothermal or we might you know currently on the hbac side we're considering four plant options and three room distribution options Maybe winnow those down to two plant options and you know one room distribution option or something and say that there's more investigation that's needed and this is the path that we're going to take um you might be right John I may be ahead of myself and um we may not be at the point of making a decision but um yeah go is well if this were kind of critical past past programming we would have float times you know we would have the earli start and the late start what is the latest start that we can make this decision or make a recommendation concerning HVAC systems what happens if we don't make it in in the beginning of August other words so we're exceptionally early in starting this process so typically this process would not have been started until um let's say September um so we have a lot of float on this decision okay so we have a lot of float is what you're saying okay that's good so I would say big picture before we submit the schematic design in about a year we have to have it finalized I'm not saying we're going to wait that long but I would say probably sometime between now and Halloween CR Thanksgiving is when you'd probably want to be making those decisions yeah I mean I I I get the impression that we're trying to rush this a little bit and trying to get a uh not just a decision but a way the winds blowing kind of thing a little too early that's that's my got feeling and I think we're not we are we are trying to be thoughtful on it but I know we're also getting a lot of people asking about it so that's why that's why we're talking about it now right now is you know we we have people asking so we want to provide answers so that that's what but I I think an initial update or an update at that point is good and we'll see where we're at at that point okay thank you John great question okay J can I ask you a quick question please if for the PDP submit um submitt are is the msba waiting for anything from us right now I know they requested two items and I remember us giving getting one back to them did they have everything they need they have asked for so far the other item they wanted is the approved meeting minutes from our final from our last meeting which we will approve today perfect and Jackie will send it to them great I don't think that that would be holding up their review right I just want to make sure we we've given them everything I I think oftentimes this first submission part of it is that the msba sends a chunk of this to the deese for the Department of Education to review and a juji then waiting for that response back to give their response that's typically what I say thank you um these are the current um CR criteria that we're uh thinking about in order to help reduce our options so questions we're asking and will'll be putting to the SBC um in July is a three story option viable um what is the tradeoffs between a larger footprint with a two-story option and then you lose sight Space versus gaining more sight space with a fre story option um in terms of the interal organization is a quote unquote fat building with maybe less some spaces with less natural light and windows viable versus a longer skinnier building but then you have maybe longer corridors and more travel time um are options that require s swing space are those viable and um the prek enrollment decision which is a primarily we understand a cost benefit analysis so we'll be coming with more information about all of this in July and this is for a second hi hi um want you all to know if you don't that we did speak with the educational leadership team the teachers before they left on Friday for vacation and the end of the year and showed them options to get their very specific feedback about educational organization and they were very clear after looking at the different plans and the different 3D options that we will be showing you what their thoughts were and which they preferred for an internal organization of a building that work best for them so we will share that with you so that you can make a a good decision based on um on what's best or what they they desire fair enough sounds good thank you thank you um I thought I took this out uh this is um so the geotechnical the final report came back but there was nothing different in it than what I had shared with you previously um we also got sorry go ahead Jen is that um report available in on our website I don't know the answer to that I don't know that we forwarded to to be uploaded yet I think we have the information and if you feel that you want it uploaded we you I'm I've never seen a Boh log that hasn't really excited me so all right let's get it up there sounds great I'm sorry I'm sorry it's you know I'm a weird civil engineers are really weird about that stff John John I second that okay thank you very much need it published on the website but certainly the committee should see those yes sure okay thank you I will be happy to share with you good um we received the environmental soil testing findings where they analyzed samples from the geotechnical war holes and um they there were no um boc's as's Etc no chemicals um at concentrate uh at reportable levels sorry the language is very difficult nothing at a reportable level so that's good yeah just just on that one I always like to tell everybody they're scientists they're never going to say zero or nothing because it can be one part per million part per billion so when they say no report below reportable levels that's good so you if somebody asks you can never say there's none but you can say it's below a level that we can report I can't remember the last time we had a site in writing that came back with no funds y go team yeah um we also did the hydrant flow test um which is just uh measuring the water pressure in the hydrants um to determine whether a fire pump will be required and the preliminary test is that um a fire pump would not be required so that's good as well um okay so this is a update on the hbac system selection process and what we are doing so we had a um meeting with the sustainability subcommittee on May first to sh share an initial set of options which I will show you in very at a very high level in a minute on the we're currently getting that priced both first cost and um lifetime LCC a um help me out here um Mike what's the terminology I'm looking for Lifetime operating cost yeah operating cost and and cost of replacement lifetime cost yeah thank you and um we're also uh doing an evaluation of the incentives what we think are the likely incentives that you could get for each system um so we will come back with that information all the cost information to the sustainability committee on July 9th and we'll ask them to make a recommendation to the SBC like I said earlier that recommendation could be you know continue to investigate these two systems we need more information here we need more information there or it might be this is this seems like the best option and this is the one that we recommend to be selected can I can I ask a question Jenny can I just ask you can we change that to working group so it doesn't imply it's not a subcommittee we're not posting we're not making decisions just want to just for clarity sake thank you um the four plant systems that are being in at are um a full geothermal system with um uh centralized water to water heat pumps a hybrid geothermal system with um where you know some percentage of the load is provided by geothermal a majority of the load is provided by geothermal but then there's a backup system um for heating and cooling on the hottest days um an air source uh VB system um which is like a split system and whoops sorry and then we are also um assessing and the kind of most traditional option which is air cool Chiller and boiler and just on that Ken I'll answer your question that I think we have to have that fourth option so that we have a baseline that we can compare against so we want to be able to understand that the Baseline you know traditional building that you've done for the last 50 years would be this and the cost savings or increase compared to that would be based off you know it's just to give us a a baseline to start from okay so I just learned about um air to water um air air sourc yeah air to water which um probably something we might want to look at um apparently there are some well it's very widely used in Europe and there are some reasons where it could be a really good system for a large scale building like this um I'm assuming this won't be news to your or technical person that these guys have brought in but um and maybe it fits really in that hybrid category because it can be powered off for geothermal I think and and I think I think Jenny and Lee have mentioned it before like when they do with the project they're doing in swans right now is a hybrid system so that system part of that was just the sheer volume of Wells they needed they didn't have enough space on site part of it was cost so that system Heating and Cooling is done off of the geothermal but ventilation and tempering of air is done off of uh air air source system still very efficient uh still working working within uh those high high efficient systems take it up at our sustainability work no we we will be given um or we will be guided in this process by the uh mechanical engineers correct and um what is what is their mandate what have we told them that we need to get from them have we told them uh I'm going to raise an old issue here we told them to consider embodied carbon in their uh naations um or are we forgetting embodied carbon completely uh because that that's a part of the life cycle costs is the car and I get the impression that geothermal systems are very high in terms of embed car carbon and if we just ignore that we got a force reading so what what is the Mandate that we've given them in terms of looking at the you know the energy used during the construction for the of these systems have have we told them anything or we just I I'll I'll start and then Jenny if you if you want to expand on it all I I think the initial direction we gave is that um first and foremost we need to meet Uh current stretch code we need to meet lead silver those are prerequisites that we need we we've actually s uh We've made the recommendation that we're trying to get the additional three bonus points so that's above the stretch code for for Energy Efficiency and we're getting the the fourth bonus point which is for uh higher indoor air quality so that is kind of the minimum that we have to do is all of those items anything beyond that is why we have multiple options that we want to review to your point John I personally don't know that I have talked to them specifically about in body carbon but but I think uh maybe Lee and his team and and Jenny I heard yeah so this is Lee um John I spoke very specifically with bongi the energy consultant and others to do a a parallel embod and um and and a carbon um analysis as well excellent um so yeah yes the answer is we never forgot it we want it to be part of your decision process um and this whole thing with the four options here is really to show you the biggest range possible so that you feel comfortable picking something in between if you want um I am not sure we have talked with a funi about embod embodied carbon at at a high level um I will confess that embodied carbon was not on my list of criteria for evaluating the HBC system um because when we talk about embodied carbon typically we're talking about decisions like uh to renovate or to build new um decisions like uh which construction materials to use in the building um so it was not on my radar but but I will bring it to um my team and see um and we'll get working on including an embodied carbon analysis I'm not sure if we will have that ready for July 9th we were I mean the important thing is that we were looking at all both types of of um of carbon um and uh there was a way to kind of graph where you started to pass the benefit of it so um we can look at that again with bomu he's done it in the past and uh again it's not the kind of thing that you use um well you have to use it carefully that's all but we're learning thank you and then um we're looking at different room level um distri distribution options as well which each have their kind of Co pros and cons whether it's displacement ventilation chilled beans or a VB system our next steps are um meeting with the sustainability committee on July 9th to advance the hbac selection um process um next SBC meeting will be July 8th um where we'll be looking at reducing the number of options and we will have a community meeting on July 15th um to share we will be sharing this um process of uh reducing the number of options with them as well any questions before I turn it over to Mike well the one question on the room level design options um what what is the conventional method of heating and air conditioning a classroom I mean are we are we going out on a limb to consider things like displacement ventilation or is that something which is becoming more used [Music] uh I think displacement ventilation is quite common in the K through2 School Market it's not um necessarily that common in other um types of buildings to be honest the most conventional system would be um uh of these would be a variant refrigerant flow the most conventional of all possible options would be um a VAR variable air flow there variable air volume VAB system that would be combined with the um the air cooled Chiller and boiler that's what I going to say Jenny I've actually seen displacement systems I've actually replaced old buildings that had displacement system so buildings that were built in the 40s and 50s and everything they do take up more space but they're less mechanical Parts things of that nature um I think the chill beams in the air source are I'll call newer technology around here newer being in the last 15 years not something brand new but something you know as we've gone to more air cooled systems ground Source systems things like that that drives you towards these other other options but um V vs um that Jenny just mentioned the other thing we used to have is unit ventilators like kind of what you have in the room back there unit ventilators nowadays um I don't know of a a unit ventilator on the market that meets code because what happens is to make the energy code they get a little louder and then they don't meet the the air uh the noise uh requirements to get them quier then they get less efficient so it's kind of a catch22 so you don't really that was what you are in all classrooms and all all schools probably built in the 80s 90s and even into the early 2000s but they're they're really getting completely away from those and getting into these are probably the three primary that we're seeing now thank you thank you John I'll I'm gonna jump back go and share my screen here now so we're we're jumping into the financials um not a lot of new information here but we want to be able to share it with you every month so that you can take a look at it and if again if you have any questions happy to review it um currently we're working towards an overall project budget of 2.2 million to date we're going to actually ask for a couple of adjustments on budgets today so we're looking to have a a revised total of $56,000 of contingency drawn which still leaves us uh 563,000 as a balance in addition to that contingency there you can see we actually have about $289,000 on the environmental in sight that we haven't committed yet doesn't mean we're not going to commit it at some point um a lot of these budgets were based off of anticipated costs uh we actually have two of those costs coming up and I'll be talking about them in just a minute um so I'm going to move on to the next sheet I'm always welcome to come back to this one as you have questions so I I mentioned we're having a couple of budget adjustments asking you to move contingency um and if you remember when I first started presenting these what we said is we're going to gray out things that we've talked about before and we're going to not gray out the new ones so the I'm going to focus on the new but again if you have a question on the gray happy to answer it so the two new items we have here tonight one is for $2,750 and that is for some additional estimating services and I'll I'll talk about that in just a second and then the second one is for $3600 this is to to cover the contract for cartoon um that was a contract that we actually met with the the um Communications Group uh the Communications Group made a recommendation to Matt as the town manager he it was under $50,000 he got a recommendation from us we moved forward with that contract so we're going to explain that to you here in a second but we'd like to have a a a a vote of acknowledgement we can't vote to accept or reject it because it's already been basically AC accepted but we want to have an understanding on that so I'm going to just jump one more page so that I can actually show you the details of the three new commitments two of them are related to those two items so the First new commitment we have here is for LBA amendment number six um don't confuse six and seven just because they happen to have the exact same dollar value uh that's just a coincidence but um item number six is for soil testing storm water system locations this is going back to if I can jump back a second that is going back to this line item here environmental insight we're we're we're looking to take $2,700 um and add it add it into that total basically and the reason why we're doing that is that uh Penny of P prevention is we're at the pound of cure we want to know what's in the ground we want to see what's out there and you you've seen some of the borings we saw that already so that's what this is for is is to do uh soil testing and Stor water system updates so we'd be looking hopefully for a vote of of approval of that tonight the the second one here is for LBA additional cost estimated services so we typically do a cost estimate at different points in the in the process um because we've had a lot of discussions on HVAC systems and cost of those Jenny and Lee came to at the time I think was Susanna and I and said we'd like to you know ask for some a little bit of additional estimating services to provide some additional feedback on that and it it might be even a little bit more than just the hbac but just having the estimators do that look again I I wholeheartly support that I think it's good information that you know the more information we have the more information you have the better your decision is going to be basically so um maybe I'll start with those two because those are both L LBA um if there's any questions I think we have it in the backup I'd be happy to flip to it but I have really kind of given you a a synopsis of what each of those is no questions right would anybody actually a couple question sure thing just um the the front sheet you not you noted a $56,000 um uh move out of contingency yes but those items don't add up to that is there more to come on that so that's the total list here if we added up the 20,000 here the it's it's all these pluses and minuses basically that adds up to 56,000 okay got it so well okay so the only change is the yeah the only new ones is is is basically about $6,000 the the the 2750 here and the 36 so the previous ones were all previously approved you you can see back some of them back almost a year ago and then some of them a little bit more recently through through the uh winter and then early spring okay go thank you mik I may be getting ahead of myself here but on the um uh you have a proposal here uh trying to read it here for a detention System diing test bills basically does that include doing a flow test or is that just digging the ground and finding out what's they have I think this initial is just digging the ground and finding with there Lee or Jenny if if if I'm wrong correct me on that but we're going to have additional test bits down the line this is this is going to be you know a couple of step process because right now we're digging based off of where we think the detention might be with 10 options still on the table and once we narrow it down to one option we'll be able to to Define that a little bit better and and we might have to go back out there and retest for the foundations or retest for the the parking lots or things like that but I I think we're pretty set on where the building's going but it doesn't mean we we we won't have to do additional tests in the future so this is not an infiltration test this is just a looking at the soils basically I think it's just it's just visual inspections to understand what we're what we're dealing with if we have any clay or if we have good Sandy material to kind of start start that process that you're talking about I mean I think from the B holes that the groundw was like six feet below ground so it's if you put a detention system in you don't have a lot of room to go you don't have a lot of depth to go no it's um okay no you're absolutely right question so I got excited that the site seems clean but um like in your experience how often do you find stuff buried under schools so I would say it's always there's always a chance for it again I think a little bit the more that we spend I'm not saying we want to spend a lot of money now but the more that you spend upfront doing those investigations testing the the less likely you're going to find something unexpected I you know I'm not going to say you're not going to find something but I I think it seems I'll just say my experience working with this District so far you're pretty on the ball you you've got good records you've got histories there so if there was an oil tank out there I think you would have known about it and and things like that so maybe I'm a little less worried about that but um you never know those first tests came back clean I will say you know I started my you know my first job out of college was working for site contractors and back then we never tested soils and stuff unless if I opened up a hole and I saw an oil t tank or S dark soils I might test but we weren't testing for background arsenic from naturally occurring sources of things like that so the testing has gotten a lot more stringent as time has gone on so I I can't say that we're out of the wood yet but that first test is is a move in the right direction thanks before before we go to a vote do we want to um talk about um cartoon e you for a second sure we can even um show part of the video okay yeah if you can just ceue up the video so um this gentleman um from cartoon edu reached out to um Tom the super Tom meski and um explained and um talk to him about this service that he has to provide what um they have they ended up having a meeting Tom and Lindsay and um Olivia and they put together these short blips of e easily digestible information um like one to two minute structures and they're in he calls them pillars of different U parts of the process uh he charges $600 for each pillar and um he's you know proposing six different pillars for us so um Caitlyn's going to just show us one of an example of situate um Public Schools ditu public school is embarked on the msba process in May 2020 to evaluate the needs of the Aging elementary schools in our district after exhausted work by our community we proposed a new elementary school be built to consolidate cushion and hatherly schools and provide more capacity for prek the Massachusetts school building authority accepted our proposal msba is a state agency that accepts a limited number of applications through a highly competitive process each year to provide grants for the construction and renovation of public schools by entering this process situ stands to receive up to $3 35.8 million in state money to help pay for the new school's construction that money reduces the cost to situat taxpayers for the past 16 months we've updated our community on the feasibility study preliminary design and schematics of our plan we're now at the project scope and budget approval phase of this project in this video we'll explain why our district needs to construct a new elementary school we'll share how the proposed design of the new Elementary School meets these needs we'll lay out our plan for consolidating the two schools in a way that's least disruptive to our community community and our students we will provide detailed numbers on what the project will cost what situ share of the expenses how we plan to finance this expense and the impact it will have on our tax assessments and we will explain what a yes and no vote mean for the project which our district will present to our Town's voters for approval at a special town meeting on April 29th and on the town election ballot on May 18th our district leaders sought msba funding for a new elementary school because both Heatherly and Cushing have reached the end of their useful lives here's how atherly opened in 1962 was identified by the msba as having the greatest needs of any of the elementary schools Cushing is just two years younger opened in 1964 they both have deficient site conditions with poor pavement vehicle circulation and drainage deteriorating exteriors including poor insulation rotting windows and leaky roofs decaying 20-year-old modular classrooms which were meant to be temporary Solutions and aging interiors that are not fully accessible both schools would require total replacement or significant upgrades to basic systems like heating ventilation and electrical to remain in operation even with upgrades and repairs neither cushy nor hatherly have the capacity to deliver the type of programming that grants our children an excellent educational experience for the next 60 years we designed a single new school thank thank you one long one yeah Pi the long one thanks Kaitlyn it's me yeah right right it's just they really need a new school definely so they they're really well done um they have different pillars so we would like to to move forward um that's not something we would be able to do easily in house at all so when when we say pillars those are the V each video is a pillar what is the timing I mean are they done like every month or is it throughout the project he can he can turn them around he can turn multiples around in like one to two weeks because he uses the same type of format he just plugs in but we would obviously we would use a lot of those up to the vote up to the vote right that would be that's why we wanted to get him on now to start that process of up and I think we have to figure it out but I think the idea was you might do one I'll say reasonably soon yes you know to get that first message out and then maybe another one you know come fall kids are getting back into school you want to do another I would suggest saving maybe is maybe two of them for right before the vote so that you're get that message out there but you I think he also said you could do kind of the six together like spread out and then before the vote you can actually do larger ones like that one which is a combination of multiple pillars that you know somebody could watch all six of them at one time that type of thing so I think uh I think for for $600 a piece it's actually very affordable and and they did said that they could customize them to our needs if we wanted to talk about the pre options for example if we wanted to talk about sustainability they they can working in in those key components into those videos to get that message out to everybody that's once you see it it's that's question how would that that message get out I mean so I I think it can go across Facebook we have we have social media through the through the town already so we're we're connecting through those so it can go out that way it can go out on our website it really it can get out there a number of ways if we have Community forums we can actually play them them at the community Forum or you could have them playing kind of outside the community Forum as people are walking in so it really uh gives you a wide range of of opportunities there definitely and but also rctv because I the majority of people in town don't know that K School building committee exists we know don't know K is being planning to be you totally ignorant okay I think that's one of the reasons we we had talked early on for example on Twitter for example did we want to kill them School Twitter account or did we want to just use the town account that already has followers and we we said let's not reinvent the wheel let's stick with the town which already has a lot of followers so they don't need to know that we exist we're going to put it on the town the town is going to distribute it yeah we distribute on social media through all the partner sites too so there School site there's there is a killum School uh specific project site but we we share across all of our social media dedicated screen of bun ratties or something like that I really now you're talking now talking now you're talking right St Patrick's Day next year put I see what you're doing all right so um I did talk about the budget adjustments the um if I can flip back just for a second so we we are looking for a budget adjustment to move some money in to pay for the the cartoon we're also having a budget adjustment to move some money in to pay for the estimating Services um I the soil's testing uh I'm just going to flip back to that first page we already have a surplus of uncommitted costs there so we would be just using some of the uncommitted cost there so what I'd be looking for tonight is a vote of acknowledgement of the cartoon because that one was was signed off and we're uh we were proceeding on that as of the 10th and then a a vote of approval for the 2 LBA that we can enter into those contra so motion y motion to approve the LBA contract movments am six and seven yeah Amendment six and seven Amendment six and seven should probably do it separately right yes second second and well any discussion NOP we'll take a vote Pat yes Karen yes John yes Nancy yes Carla yes so that passes I O motion to acknowledge the uh the amendment or the contract cartoon yeah second seconded by Karen any discussion now we'll take a vote Pat yes Karen yes Nancy yes John thank you yes Carla yes and that passes 5 excellent thank you very much um just to finish the financial updates here um we do have some invoices which you'll be talking about with the warrant tonight um I I believe last month when we when we met we had not got the call your one in so you actually have two from us one from from uh the April services and one from the May services and then we have the LBA from April uh we're working with them to get their April one uh in in process that that'll be presented next time um but those two invoices that we have with that understanding um we have our cash flow that we we update monthly and I always like to show the graph rather than the numbers you can see the green is our expected budget and the red is where we're we're trending right now so we're a little bit below I think part of that is that we don't have that one extra LBA one that that may one if we had that in here it would be it would it would show it up a little bit higher um and I think we're we're trending to the be under a little bit on our billing you know based off of what we're anticipating so that's always was a good thing yeah a good thing yeah didn't didn't we have another vote to take we had what was the first one so I think we did the two together together and then the cartoon was the second one okay and just to be clear on that I didn't ask for a specific separate vote for the budget adjustments moving the contingencies and I assume because we had to do it for those amendments that it was part of that vote Yes okay okay all right all right if if there's no other questions on the financials I am going to move into our next section which is uh sorry I'm just gonna um total project budget and I'm gonna start with this sheet here I'm gonna actually flip over from the PDF to an Excel file because I want to be able to show formulas and things like that so for from time to time um so I'm going to just stop sharing for a second here and I'm going to share the Excel so this is that same file um I've tried to make it small enough here that it kind of fits all in one page but as we get into it I will probably zoom in so that you can see the numbers and you can actually see the words so we're not we're not kind of scrambling for that but there's been a lot of questions in regards to uh total project budget um uh I I think it was two meetings ago we brought forth the construction estimates and we we priced up we provided those estimates based off of the uh initial um options that we had now just so everybody understands those options were at a feasibility level which means not a lot of drawings more schematic in nature a lot of narratives we we intend to use this type of heating system we intend to use this type of skin it's not the details aren't all in there but that's what we do at this early stage um as part of that we the designers put in escalation contingency which projects it out to when we think we're actually going to bid it they also put in design contingency which is putting a a dollar value in there to try and fill in all those gaps that we haven't filled in yet so as we go through this you're going to see over and over again at the DD phase at the 60% construction phase of the 90% you're going to continue to see escalation in in design contingencies but as we get closer to going out to bid those get smaller and smaller basically proportionally as we go forward um so those were construction costs those were based off schematic design we were asked to take a look at those construction costs and try and project out for total project costs um we're very early in the process here we haven't picked Heating systems we haven't picked even an option yet so there's a lot of balls in the air here so we're trying to do that to give what we've been asked for but I just want to everybody to understand that these numbers are based off of construction estimates which we were doing Apples to Apples comparison we weren't trying to build the final building it was to say hey if we have option A1 a22 B1 B2 C1 C2 we want them all to have the same heating system so you compare app to Apples we ar all have the same envelope system so you're comparing Apples to Apples it doesn't mean it's the final design if you will so just kind of starting off with that um I did want to share a couple of the bigger assumptions that we put into this um and those are these down here with a little asterisk I I hope everybody can read this here so currently the numbers that we're showing are based on a a GC general contractor chapter 149 bid there's two options here chapter 149 lumpsum low bid general contractor chapter 149a see at risk um we haven't had that discussion yet I don't know that we're prepared to have that tonight but in general the simpler the job the more likely you are to go 149 the more complex the job the more likely you are to maybe go see them at risk but um what we're saying is our our estimate is if we were to change this to see at risk right now we would would say that the construction numbers would go up to between 5 and 10% higher than what we're showing right now so we have not done that right now um it assumes 5% contingency so not to confuse you I just talked to you a minute ago about design contingency and escalation contingencies those are actually part of the construction value in addition to that we have owner's contingency and in in uh in construction contingency that is what you're going to use to fund any unforeseen condition any change orders down the line so that's built into your number again I'll show that to you in a little bit more 5% is reasonably healthy I think uh you know I I've I've done chapter 149 projects um with three and a half% and you know if you're talking a $100 million every percent is a million dollars right so 5% is again a little bit comfortable but again could be adjusted down that's the Assumption we've made at this time swing space costs are assumed but need to be confirmed so what we mean by that is um there's different swing space requirements for the different options and we we'll we'll get into that in just a little bit um these numbers are based off of assumptions again we have not been able to confirm exact values here on swing spaces that's probably one of the bigger unknowns right now um so wanted to identify that when we get into the the options up above we'll we'll be talking about the the current design based off the current construction values and what if we were to try and take as much as 15% off of that value so I I think what what I what I was trying to explain before on this when I was thinking to myself is that our C our our current estimates have ground Source heat pumps they have the I'm going to say they have the higher level finishes not saying it's over the top but it's it's it's making that building very energy efficient it's making the building meet all the educational requirements and everything I'll call it the the fully loaded car if you will um we can get a car that's not fully loaded and it still does everything that you need right so what what would we do to to make it not fully loaded and and I think what we're trying to do by putting the 15% in there we're saying hey that 15% uh in talking with the design team we still feel that we can meet all those requirements that we were talking about earlier lead stretch energy code the three bonus points the IND air quality all the educational we we still feel we can do that even if we took 15% off of those estimates if you ask me to take 25% off I would defer Al Lee and Jenny that's when we might start affecting durability long-term operational educational program things of that nature but we wanted to give you a range here right we want to say hey this building could be from this range to this range so that 15% is why what we chose there how did we get to the 15% right now about 10% of that cost is the ground Source heat pumps changing that out to say an air source heat pump again still very efficient we we we pulled that one out just because it's one item that's such a large value um the other 5% is just other things that Lee and Jenny felt they they felt if you challenge them to cut 5% they could do that without impacting durability operational educational all those things um the last assumption I have here is that we assume $2,200 per student uh for the enrollment only and I'll explain to that to you in a little bit uh that's for FFN and technology so the reason why that's important is the msba will pay for the design enrollment of$ 455 students $1,200 per student for FFN and $1,200 per student for technology um when I first became an OPM 14 years ago those limits were $1,200 each they have not changed in 14 years so um I would say up till Co I was pretty good at getting FF and for that 1200 still technology was a struggle after Co we're seeing double so the $2,200 I think is is a real number there uh not a huge part of this but again an important part of it so uh I'm going to go back up to the top here now um so to start I'm going to zoom out just a little bit here just so you can see the overall here so I have can I I oh sure jump in was there a point tonight we were going to talk about we got an answer from the msba on the educational um value um on a centralized solution were we gonna present that tonight commit that's part so what we've done here is we've tried to group this this first gray bar and and I'm going to zoom back in in a minute is the larger building option so we have option A1 B1 C1 D1 E1 um those are all the different options that's the three-story building the two-story fat building the two-story skinny building it's all the options that we presented before and we we had actual estimates on all of those and what we've done is we've tried to identify we we group those into the larger options here for the A1 B1 C1 D1 E1 and then we did the smaller building option for A2 B2 C2 D2 so those two subgroups are basically full prek upstairs and reduce prek downstairs the really if we look on the gray bar larger building including enrollment of 455 K to 5 students and 120 prek students total area of that building is 122,50 sare Ft that's for all these options under that down below smaller building including enrollment of 455 and 40 prek so instead of 120 like we have up here it's 40 so that difference of 80 what that does is that drops the building square footage by about 19,000 ft so 103,000 so all of these options are the 103,000 Ft building now just going across the the the columns here so we have the options identified here A1 B1 so forth we have the general description of the building so you have A1 is the addition renovation option B1 was the three-story building uh C1 was the two-story Wide building D1 was the two-story narrow building and E1 was the two story narrow building uh with the students moved so that's what we had presented previously going on to the swing space in these first three options we would have to move the modular units only so we'd have to move those students we've had discussions with uh with the superintendent and with the principal we we feel that there's opportunities for um I'm sorry um with the Rise program and with the the kindergarten to have some flexibility there so we don't think it's a huge lift here but we do know that there's going to be cost associated with that um D1 that that's the the narrower building we we would have to move the modular and one pod so that that takes a little bit more and then E1 is the full building is is moved to swing space of some sort um and and we can talk about that a little bit more you can see the durations each of these have different durations for uh construction um and then we have the overall Construction costs um I will get into the reimbursement in a little bit but um I just wanted to show this the reimbursement in general for the new building is all the same the renovation you get additional bonus points from the msba for renovating and so that's why we're showing that the ren renovation option would be 53% um but it's 53% of a higher construction value um looking at a very high level here if we look at B1 C1 D1 and E1 th those four options there were 1052 at the low end 1068 at the upper end uh so they're they're all within about uh a million dollars of the average if you will so for my perspective none of these options are really being driven by cost they're all relatively equal if you will so just just my my observation for you the reason why I tell you that is I'm going to show you some detailed breakdowns in a minute for me to try and do all of these options in a detail breakdown gets very complicated very quickly so what we did is we picked B1 just because it was the first one that was not the renovation basically and we plugged that in here so you can see mods only Mo modular only you can see 34 months here 34 months here so everything here the 106 797 the 106 797 and then we project it out for the rest of the cost we then took B1 minus the 15% to give us the lower range on that so it's that same building same duration with the construction value reduced by 15% and then I also did want to do an E1 uh for the full swing space just so we had a dis you know we could have that as a discussion Point everything that I just told you about the large building we did that exact same thing for the small building the only thing is we didn't do an E2 with the estimates so I didn't try to make an E2 up we just didn't have that done if we feel that that's important we can always go back to the estimat for it but we didn't have that done initially so I know I just gave you a whole lot of information but I I hope it it was relatively clean but I'm happy to answer any questions before I go to the next step on the on the A1 Mike um addition renovation that presumably would be done under 149a right presumably so right now this is based off of 149 but you're right if we were to go to that we it would probably be 149 would it not be good in here to to cost that out by adding the five or 10% we could certainly do that yeah maybe put an asterisk on it saying this is what we've done because it's it probably could be 1498 it could and just I'm glad you brought that up because there's a lot of examples like that like I I'll give you another one these first uh B1 C1 and D1 all assume that the students are on the site but they all assume ground Source heat pumps right now as well and I don't think that I can do ground Source heat pumps with the students on the site so the pricing here is trying to keep it Apples to Apples but you're 100% right that B1 really isn't 1067 B1 with the assumptions we made is 1067 but the reality is one of those assumptions is ground Source heat pumps which I don't know that I could give you that right now if if if you so that's some of the the work that we're going to be doing trying to narrow these down in in over the next month or two but it's it's absolutely a valid point that that you know again this is why it's a little early for me to give this to you but that's why we're we're trying to answer the questions we've been asked on that and the other the other question is um personally I would eliminate the um value engineering at this stage because I don't I don't I think it's a you know people will look at that and say well if you take 15% out of the building why don't you just take it out I don't think that's what we want I what I wanted to do is present that to everybody tonight because here's where I'm going with it is I think at the end of the night if I can jump to the the to to this column here with the current construction estimate for B1 with all the soft cost contingency and everything at in I'm projecting a total construction value of 1358 that same building if we took the value engineering is 117 round numbers here so what I would like what I would propose is if we're talking about building B1 we would say it's a range of$ 115 to $136,000 like it that's how I came up with the range if people want to know you know did you just take 10% off or add 10 like no we actually did kind of a as much of a scientific analysis as we could and the the the rationale there is that I don't want everybody to get stuck on the 1358 I also don't want you get stuck on 117 we're probably not building either of those buildings there's going to be a little bit of give and take somewhere in between those probably more towards the upper side from what I'm hearing but again cost could could drive that down but I I think what we want to do is when we come out of here tonight I would recommend that whenever we're talking about these that we would use that range and that's why we were showing it um but you're you're right we it's too early right now to be taking value engineering but I think as we progress this design as we start making decisions we're not necessarily making them because they're value engineering but the decisions are going to be adjusting that building so maybe maybe my my wording of value engineering is is not a good a good idea because that that 15% could apply to any of these schemes right it could yeah so I I don't know why you put it only on on B1 you know it's kind of confusing to people looking at this for the first time and say well B1 is you can take 15% out of that but you can't take it out of the others no so I did do it on B1 and B2 and I only did B1 and B2 because let me just let me jump here for a second if I show you so this is the form from the msba uh just to to send we have to fill in a lot of numbers there's a lot of calculations and all these numbers again just kind of showing you the high level here that's for one option and so what I'm showing you tonight on this summary I'm actually showing you three options here on the large and two options on the small if I were to do all of these options I would have had uh uh let's see five I would had 10 options on on the large and eight options on the small and it just gets very complicated so um you're absolutely right the B1 was the the one I chose just just to do this calculations again so that people understand it with the understanding that what we said a few minutes ago the difference in construction cost between B1 C1 D1 and E1 is not noticeably different yeah but could could you not instead of putting the minus 15% could you just put a range of numbers in here in other words you have a not not a low and a high but a a range um I think at the end that's what we would do if we we maybe have a summary on top of this that says here's our range for the the building with prek and all those assumptions in ground Source heat that's less confusing to somebody looking at this for the first time um and they're saying why you know why did you why did you choose B1 for 15% or why why not put a range of lows lows to highs you all of them maybe I'm I'm I'm not going to be able to arrange of lows to highs for all of them it's going to take me another day well I I shouldn't say I'm not I can do that but it I think the point is to get what we're going to say to the public this is what we think it's going to be regardless of what we choose how do you tell the public what that 15% is no I'm not saying that I agree with you that it shouldn't be I don't think we can explain that to the public well it's right there it's 10% for ground Source heat bmps 5% for other design uh items the design team will address but you've only app it to one one scheme and I think that's what we can't sell to the public there only this thing applies to all schemes yes and and yes sir Mike I could make a a couple observations or recommendations in your spreadsheet um where you take B1 and um and you take the 15% of it um if you did that to the extent we presenting this if instead of doing B1 if you just took the average of those four which which is like youve had it highlighted before so it's 6,300,000 as opposed to the 106 797 if you use that number 106 383 995 um everything plays out the same but I agree with John 100% it kind of it that changes the message from you can reduce B1 by 15% to you can potentially reduce everything anything from B1 to E1 by 50 15% I totally agree with John that it's by definition it's too early to talk to describe it as be maybe just a change of terminology there you know potential cost savings yeah so I I I I can work on 15% building reduction or or a cost reduction or something like that I I can't do the averages but just so you understand what happens is that that construction value is broken into a number here and then numbers here here like I would then have to do the average on on dozens of numbers to to get that to Total out correctly so so under E1 can you add a line there right that's just separate line that's not attached to any of the back information and just call it like all options right and then find the average like uh Pat said yeah of the you know 106 105 107 105 find that average and then have that number as the high cost and then do the value engineering at 15% as a low cost and then we just say this is just a representation of all of our options um not all of our options all of our um new construction options with the students on site and then it maybe just dispels all of that information so we have a we have three we'll have an addition renovation off option A1 we'll have an all-inclusive option um and then we'll have a remove the kids from the site option potentially just to make it maybe make do that so I will add that in thank you does that satisfy everyone good yeah maybe when I see it yeah deps what Mike does just don't value engineering yeah it's um I just think it's confusing as it is presented it confused me but I confuse EAS I don't want to believe this but mik did have a couple of other comments and a question sure thank so just from a commentary standpoint um the commentary on see at risk um there's no doubt I I would I would think we would U an addition renovation would lend itself more to see at risk Y and new construction would lend itself more to design B build but that's not hard about both methods should be done with either method absolutely and and um I'm I'm taking the over on your 5 to 10% on that price increase I think there's plenty of data out there that show it's more like 10 to 20 um but just just just one person's opinion the question I have is the four options that you have they're effectively the same number because they're within high to low they're within two and a half million which is you know within the the margin of error for an estimate at this point yes truly believe and does the design team does Colliers and LBA truly believe that any one of these four options building it is truly the same my so this is this is Lee um at this point at this point since they are they are boxes right with all the same um assumptions if one is three stories and one is two stories but one's spread out and one's it they're all the same same square footage exactly gross square footage it's almost it's very difficult right now to kind of calculate now they did calculate some roof stuff and what they thought might be roof and wall and all of that at a conceptual level but until we really really you know get further I would I do think that they're probably all within two or three you know cuz none of them are fancy they're all they're all just the they're all pretty simple and straightforward um I can't tell you which one's going to be more or less in a year but if you thought of them all as being relatively the same then it takes away the the choice of hey uh you know a two-story scheme is less expensive than a three story is probably not or is depending on the exact scheme which you don't have right now we have four we have layouts you you see the impossibility of being able to answer that question other than they all seem pretty darn close that's what call year says yeah so the one thing I would add to that Lee is that we we have not vetted out the cost of the Swing space and the swing space is a big chunk of the cost on this last option this E1 option well I'll get to that in a little bit but that's the one that I would say might be different than these when we when we get those final numbers Pat is is we we we're we're starting to get to that point where where we've been meeting with uh some people locally trying to figure out what that swing space cost might be we're trying to get the design team out to look at some spaces to see what a fit out of a a swing space might cost because that could be that could blow this one out of the waters to be honest but the other thing that we are looking at is again we're comparing Apples to Apples here we're showing 34 months for all of these and the reality is there we're showing that's 24 months to build the the building we move the students in and then it's another 10 months to demo the old building and do all the parking lots and all the fields and everything like that the reason why this one is 24 months is because we're tearing down the building at the same time we're building it so we we lose that second phase but I I I think there is room for discussion about that 24 months for example um 122,000 square foot building if we do uh early packages potentially on switch gear or things like that we might be able to reduce that overall construction of 24 down to you know 22 or 20 or 18 something like that I don't we don't want to go too aggressive on it but I think looking at things like that again is something we'll do once we pick the final option that that's the option we're moving forward but um I would think on any one of these I could probably Drive the cost down a little bit if that general contractor is charging whatever Pat you you probably know the numbers better than I do X doll per month if it's $100,000 or $200,000 whatever that number is if I can cut 3 months or four months or five months that's money getting cut off that all makes sense I just want to make sure I think we're going to very quickly um lose sight of the potential cost difference between different um designs yeah and if if they're truly all within that range that's you know how we should be making that decision because they're all very close just seems to me that you know there would be some there be some data out there that would be able to lead us to you know some feedback on which of those might be less expensive or more expensive y That's thank you very much K yeah just quick question I apologize I asked this before in a smaller meeting like the uh under the value engineering where you're pulling out grounds or C pumps because it was a nice big line item um does that estimate reflect um potential Ela um 30% reimbursement or we're not that far yet this is construction value so if we do have incentives any incentives come at the end of the project not at the beginning so you're going to have to pay for it all up front so this this is not taking life uh cycle analysis into this is straight construction like if if if you want talking about tax credits which is just like another those are at the end of the project after the Project's done you don't get those before right but in terms of common it doesn't reflect it doesn't reflect incentives full incentives it doesn't reflect anything to do with life cycle or incentives okay because it's different than life cycle incentives no it's all part of the same discussion because here the bottom line is for example if we have a $135 million project if you're if that's the project we decide to go out with that's the number you're giving the voters you might get $10 million in incentives that's at the end of the project you still have to have the 135 million on the vote so but what we have to present to the voters is what's it going to really cost you so that's a part that's pretty that's a yeah it's going to really cost you the full amount at the beginning um and if there are reimbursements you technically truly don't know them till the end I know what you're trying you're saying is you want to be able to say to the voters hey look we could get these incentives and maybe that's part of it is we could get these incentives but we won't realize it until the end but we're and we're goingon to know though but I mean we're going to know before the vote whether we're going to get them or not no you're not you're going to know once the building is built and then you you what what happens is you design the building to to make certain performance requirements once the building is built you have to then show that that building meets those requirements and once it meets those requirements then you get the incentives for the ELA you know this for a fact that this is how that works you have to provide I don't that's not how the IRA works thank you Ira I'm like losing it Ira is is based on just installing the it's just the equipment you buy so that's what I mean that's that's some that's more real but it it's still you're still signing a contract for $106 million you still have a total project budget of 136 again this is very early in this process right so it's just commentary it's just commentary it doesn't include to Pat's Point like cuz that just looks like oh well then we would never do that it's so easy but it's more complicated it's more nuanced there will you know there will be Ira incentives and you're right and that's part that will be part of our presentation that's why I didn't want to show this tonight it's okay but that's why that's the type of thing that's why I don't you know we're we're very early on we we can't project those out yet so yeah well okay well you stop taking on ground s SE pumps too I mean that's another way and I don't fult you this is really helpful and we got the same kind of numbers on the senior center and people were asking the same questions they're like oh they're all coming out the same so it's okay I think I'm seeing you know you try to price anything out this early you're going to get these kind of like really big don't pin me down numbers but yeah I I don't want to fault you for doing this I know you put a lot of work in this and I don't think we're singling out ground Source I think we've got lots of options here they all include ground Source heat pumps so to to say that we're singling them out like it it just so happens that that's something that doesn't affect educational program and and has a a a steep upcharge on it on day one yeah yeah we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that we're accurately reflecting what this is based on your answer to this question which is just straight like what does it cost I'm just costing it I haven't considered this other stuff okay it's fine yeah that that's what these are the numbers you would be signing your agreement with the msba on that that's what that that's what we're trying full transparency absolutely so um all right so I can go through the details I I wasn't intending to go through very high details but what I would say is I I kind of gave you a preference this is what is called the 31 form this is the form that the msba actually fills in all the details on and they use to calculate out what your reimbursement rates are going to be what your reimbursables are in general I'm going to keep it at a very high level again happy to get into all the Manu here if we need to but column B here uh is the estimated budget amount so that's the the total estimated cost we scroll down so this is B1 this is going to get us to the very bottom that 130 136 number the 1358 the next column over is a list of all the ineligible cost so when we talk about your reimbursement rate of 51.4 you you're never going to hear me say your reimbursement is 51.4 five 51.4 five of the eligible costs yeah and for example on this project on this one example of $1295 million a little over 55 million of that is ineligible so that means roughly 73 $74 million is eligible for that 50% reimbursement and that calculates out to a maximum facilities Grant of $38 million which you can see down here as well so I was looking at the Winchester um Financial page and they're they're a bit further along they're hoping to complete their project this year those are the kind of numbers then in in like the pillars then they're like and we want to do this project because we're getting like $ 38.9 million back from the msba so I could see where how this is going to start feed into what's the kind of information that we're going to be to present to our community as we get further into it okay so the reimbursement percentage maybe I'll I'll get into a little detail here just so you understand where we're coming from on that the current project you're doing with feasibility schematic you're getting 45.9% that's based off of uh lots of calculations on um average anal income how many students are on um um uh meal assistance things of that nature it calculates that does not change very quickly it changes you know over time it might change up and down a little bit that's what we're using as the assumption that you're going to get going forward I don't know that I've had any projects that it's actually changed from schematic design to uh um to uh the final project so I think that's a reasonable assumption that we put in there there's another five and a half points of of total incentives that we've added here and those are calculated here we have I I put in one and a half% for your maintenance program so if you don't have a maintenance program you get zero if you have a fabulous one you get two I believe we might be more on that fabulous side but I'm being a little bit more conservative and saying 1 1.5 um typically I see anywhere from 1.2 to 1.7 on that so again 1.5 might be a little conservative at this level that extra half a percent is a half a million dollars right or or maybe even a little bit more so just understand that we're not a newly formed Regional School District on this option here this is a new Option so there is no renovation the the way the these five points are calculated if it was a complete renovation with no new building you get five points if it's a complete new building with no renovation you get zero if it's 5050 you get two and a half it's just a straight straight math on that so we're not doing that um I we talked a little bit with Jane on overlay zones even though we have some overlay zones in the the town the the school does not fall within those overlay zones so we don't have that as an option uh we are assuming the four points for green school so that's three points for being above the energy code and one point for the indoor air quality and so one and a half on the maintenance four on the Energy Efficiency that's how we get to our five and a half I go back over here we have our Baseline we have our five and a half we add that together and that's how you get to the 51.4 now let me jump back to the the summary sheet here for a second on these three options again I think if we went on across all of them you'd have very similar numbers but in General on these three options on this option here we have 136 million I'm I'm talking round numbers 136 million 51.4 five of eligible cost is reimbursed what that actually translates to is $97 million talent year which is 28% of actual cost is reimbursed so when we talk about eligible versus actual you can see there's a pretty substantial difference there I will tell you in October of 23 the msba raised their caps substantially these numbers would be a lot worse if if we if we had done it under the old numbers um right now we're assuming $550 a square foot is the cap and $52 a square foot is the site workare cap because that's where it is right now there's probably going to be at least one vote hopefully before we go forward where the msba might increase that by maybe another three and a half percent or something like that mentioned a 2022 price cap adjustment as well so I'm like yes let's make it an annual so in 2023 the msba went forward uh at their board meeting and they did some adjustments I'm going to say for projects Co projects so for about the last two and a half years they also made a substantial update um anything over I think it's 3% actually has to go to leg legislature for approval and they actually did um because the the the the cap of that 3% or 3 and half% is actually written into the law like they can only increase it by so much they they can go less if they want without legislature but they can't go more right so um so again the the the upper end on that building is this the lower end if we were to reduce the cost uh again I'm not going to use that that ve word if we were to to reduce the cost on on7 million here um your eligible is 51% your actual actually goes up to almost 30 you know 32 and a half% so um because the cost goes down what we're actually seeing here the difference here the difference between 135 and 116 is 18.9 million the difference in town share is 18.9 million so basically that full 15% that you you you might be adjusting is all Town money and and that's really what we wanted to show there similarly we did the same kind of exercise down here on the smaller building with the with the reduced prek we were at 120 million here and 103 million here and you can see the the numbers are are similar but a little bit higher so on the smaller building we get a little bit better reimbursement right um and and again the difference on the total project from the 120 to the 103 is the 6 162 and the the town share is actually 16.3 so by reducing the building the town share actually goes down by even a little bit more than the overall um the last thing I wanted to point out here is if we look at these in general this is about $117 million building and that has a town share of 7079 million this is 120 million and has a town share of 84 million so even though those total projects of similar size similar dollar values the town share is actually um greater here or or sorry is is less here than it is here because of the square footages that we're working with fascinating so uh I'm happy to get into the details thank you okay thank you so I'm happy to get into the details if people have questions but the eligibles ineligibles I can spend hours kind of going through that and I'm happy do that maybe not tonight but maybe at another if anybody has any questions but uh uh happy to go through that in in depth with anybody that would like to so this is um so this is right one piece of the the puzzle um the design team met and and the OPM met with the um the teachers to find out what their option was and what their um desire was for the best type of school for for for Learning and then we're going to so that's another input to this the sustainability committee is going to have a a meeting and and that's going to be another input to this to help make the decision um by the time we we get to to August absolutely and and I think big picture here this starts to give you order magnitudes if you will on on projects and and understanding where that is and I think you need to kind of probably talk internally a little bit or talk with constituents and things like that and and find out what is the appetite for total project costs and and how does that play into everything because again first and foremost here is we need to meet the educational program right that's the first thing that we need to do the next thing we want to do is we want a very sustainable and uh a building that has low operation costs right we don't want to have something that cost us a lot every year to operate and and then there's all those other parts of the Community pieces all the you know the neighborhoods and and and working with all those different things and and just uh you know do we need more parking do we need less parking do we want you know a more fancy Auditorium or cafetorium or can we you know adjust that down there's lots of different discussions that you can have um after we pick that that preferred option in August that's when a lot of those decisions really start to get made okay thank you Mike that was huge and any any questions presentation anybody online have any questions yeah that that's huge actually I just have just have one question Mike sure as we're going through the process um with everything budget wise particularly as we're coming up on I think there's going to be some cost analyses on like the various hbac systems yes are we going to um V that against historical data right understanding that there's inflation involved but like where the hvac's are all five sub vids and we have data we should have access to data on like every the cost of every hbac system that's gone into a into a mass School in the last 20 years I'm not interested in all of it but you know there's a lot of I think there's a tremendous amount of good data there um at the m ba to compare some any of these numbers to I understand that well follow that I I understand the challenge of trying to put dollars um next to things at this phase and I really appreciate the effort everyone on your team that these team has done this the information here is fantastic just as we're going forward is it possible to be betting the stuff against Ms msba historical that we can and and if you give me a second let me just pull out the uh I I want to actually pull up the estimate that we actually or some of the estimates that we've used here so um first and foremost I believe Lee and his uh experts the the HVAC experts and things like that they're they're going to look at the projects maybe not every msba project but certainly all the projects they've done but the other big Advantage we have here is that um Lee is using pmnc as their estimator and U pmnc I would say you know I'm not out of line to say that they're probably on more than 2third of of all msba projects they they just do a lot of work with it whenever I do a bid they always contact me and get the bid results and they actually reach out to the vendors and they actually try to understand why were they higher than somebody or lower than somebody and understand one of the things that they try to do when when we look at their numbers here and I'm just going to go to this first so this is where I got all those construction numbers when we look at this number this 1067 what what people will tell us is that on bid day he's hoping that this number would be third in a group of five so he's not trying to give us the low bid number he's trying to give us like the the safe bid number if you will so um they've been pretty accurate on that and they're constantly updating their pricing based off of that so they they do talk to to to contractors and and and subcontractors and they do try to constantly update their their pricing and they always price it um I mentioned earlier con contingencies here so they always price it so their price is based off of construction today and then what they do is we add an escalation to to the start and then we add the design contingency to finish the design so um I I do think that we we've taken that into account here Pat and I think we're going to continue to do it we're going to bring an estimator on board as well um I I know we've talked about am Fogerty and rlb I'm not sure if we've finalized with one of those yet but again I think those three estimators do a large percentage of msba jobs and and they they all go back and and definitely do try to look at that historic information and actually see see where we're at compared to that excellent thank you and again this this is uh thank you all for doing this the information and this presentation and I've been going through the the actual live Xcel file spreadsheet it's quite detailed inform I said thank you very much and uh not just so everybody understands when we see these numbers we're looking at the big numbers but if I went you can see this page is 112 pages long like when we get into the electrical it's line by line like you don't just say oh that's a $20 million electrical number you you you add up all the parts and pieces and you fill in the information as best you can and that's how you get to the number so uh that's what they do they do detailed takeoffs even though there wasn't anything to take off here you know they're doing it kind of off of a a floor plan and off of a a general site plan kind of saying I assume I'm going to bring electric into the building from here I assume that we're going to have this many linear feet of of Plumbing pipes again based off historic information great mik thank you for all that because the the the information in the back is really um it's comprehensive um and we know where we're we keep pushing on numbers and um sometimes we don't always get what you want and um we just have to be cognizant that we're at a certain point in the process and that those numbers are going to be refined and they're going to change um throughout the next year until we go for the bid and even at that point in time they're not going to be exact may maybe one more thing just so everybody understands uh we made certain assumptions in there for the uh like for the square footage space and and Jenny actually uh reached out to to um shley and I today and we have a meeting Thursday morning is it Thursday morning um we made certain assumptions on uh the um smaller prek option and the larger prek option how much square footage would be eligible and ineligible and we're actually going to try and meet with them for example to see did we over or underestimate those and if we did we'll make some adjustments and we'll redo all these forms again we'll send it over to you but we're trying to we know um that's a big number as well as well just like the ground Source heat pump is the the uh I might be losing my power on my computer um so the the ground Source heat pumps and and the prek are two of the bigger numbers so we're we're trying to get a better handle on that so again we're going to continue to refine these throughout the process and and hopefully get us to a uh a better number at the end not hopefully it will get us to a better number at the end thank you super okay we don't need any more warrant votes right we need so just the uh the warrant votes would be for the three invoices that we we' done that no we no we did we did the three ad services but we did not do the three invoices and um if I can pull up my power record if I need to but it um so let's do um um I it was the call years's April the call Year's May and I believe it was uh uh lb's April so I move to approve um the three following invoices call years April invoice and may invoice and lbas inv second any discussion hearing none I'll take a vote Pat yes Karen yes John yes Nancy yes Carla yes passes five to zero thank you and um I I'm just saying I had no warning it just and um that's me well another motion to approve the May 9th kilm School building committee meeting minutes move to approve the did you move it or do you want me to move it perfect go ahead move it the uh kilum School building committee minutes dated uh May May 9th second second any discussion Pat yes Nancy yes John yes Karen yes and Carla yes so that passes fiveo um future agenda items we just know um in our packet it talks about the next meetings that we have and the next um kilum School building committee will be July 8th and then the 22nd so we also have a community Forum in between those on the 15th we have a community Forum on the F July 15th and August 8th and we have a bunch of other meetings too so we'll talk about then my question early was really like a response from the msba on the prease centralized but that looks like it would be part of the future agenda item we've referenced so we at the next um Kellum School building committee meeting we will have the superintendent make a presentation on the um the benefits of having the larger all-encompassing kilum um Rise program Under One Roof um and what impact it will have on the the rest of the the town and the response because you sent and that's with the response from the msba or we still waiting so I I maybe I can elaborate a little bit so the we we reached out to the msba to see about uh reimbursement on on the prek and they basically basically kind of reiterated what they had stated before that when you initially submitted your your statement of interest you indicated that prek was going to be part of the discussion so they're open to that and in general they are they allow classroom spaces to be eligible office spaces and other anary spaces are ineligible so I've made some assumptions on my numbers that's some what I'm going to be meeting with Jenny and Leon to to try and nail those down a little bit better a little bit tighter because my assumptions could be off one way or the other I so um but I think what what we mentioned Carl is going to be uh Tom's going to be coming at the next meeting give a a broader overview of everything hopefully we'll have been able to refine those numbers a little bit more so we can talk more specific about dollars and cents on on each of the options and um what we will try to do going forward is as best as we can whenever we talk about costs we'll try to a certain degree talk about total project costs and town share because you can see there's there's a relationship there but they can be pretty substantially different depending on uh your cost per square foot really um the higher we are the more Town percentages the lower the cost of square foot you know the more we're in line with that msba cap that answer your questions I was expecting a yes or a no oh but maybe it's tied into our final solution is that why I'm not getting a yes or yes or no on what we're GNA get it we're gonna get a I can ask the again present no well I think you might be looking for what is the msba like if they going to say say yes or no right so part of their pdb submission back to us will hopefully include some of that information and then we'll go to the PSR and that will include more information and and I would say regardless if we go with the smaller or larger right if we can show that the educational program is what is dictating that exactly the msba is going to support it but they're going to support it in that they're going to say classroom space is eligible and other spaces are ineligible so I don't think the msba is saying yes for the big and no for the small or or vice versa they're saying you have to show me what your educational program requires and then you should be building to that educational program okay thank you I'll entertain a motion motion to adjourn second any discussion we don't have to discuss it pat yes Karen yes John yes Nancy yes Carla yes we're adjourned thank you everyone