All right. >> Okay. Just pressed on that. Is it Paul and >> Liam? And >> Good evening. >> Yeah. Liam and Paul and Betsy are on here. >> Okay. >> Okay. We're about to start.
>> We're about to start. >> Good evening. The Redbank Historic Preservation Commission will hold a regular meeting on Wednesday, August 20th, 2025 at 7 p.m. at 90 Mama Street Redbank.
Adequate notice of this meeting has been posted at Burough Hall, filed with the Burough Clerk, and provided to the Osprey Park Press in the Two River Times. The commission has maintained a policy cutoff hour of 8:30 p.m. for these meetings.
I'd ask you now to please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible,
>> liberty and justice for all. >> And now roll call, please. Li Almarini >> present. >> Marjorie Cavalier >> present. >> Liam Collins >> present. >> Paul Kagno
>> present. >> Paris Chelkoff >> present. Anthony Sero absent. And Betsy Valera >> present. Okay. Um I'm going to move straight into
administrative matters. I'll save all public comments at the end. Um first would be approval of >> Can you move that a little closer to you? >> Sure. Uh approve first matter is approving the
minutes of the last regular meeting which was June 18th. You may recall that we uh did not hold a meeting in July. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes. >> Motion to second.
>> A second. >> I was absent. >> I second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I was absent also. >> And >> I was absent and um
>> was absent. I think >> was >> No. >> Yeah, >> I was >> I was not absent in >> Oh, no. Oh, William, somebody said that they were absent on the Zoom. Sorry. >> No, I was not.
>> Is um >> I don't I can't hear from here. >> Okay. >> Right. Are we all set with that? Um now we'll move to the reports starting with the minor works committee.
>> Yes. Um the minor works committee met uh well we did not meet but these were minor um signage applications that um we decided that they were um appropriate for the locations
um and so they were approved via email um and those were 3-5 Broad Street and 34 Broad Street. Okay. Thank you. I'm moving to the river center report.
>> The river center report was Oops. The River Center report was going to be that we approved the sign um and that it was coming here. So, we already covered the sign under our business. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Historic sites design guideline committee. So, I'd ask the chair to move that lower on the agenda so that we can hear an application from a business owner in town. So, I would call for a motion to uh amend the agenda to move up
new business. >> Okay. Thank you. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you. All those in favor of deferring the discussion of that to later in the meeting. >> I
>> I >> I >> thank you. Um to be clear, we will discuss new business first and then then we'll turn back to that. So the uh first
matter of new business is uh 4850 Mama Street facade improvement. Thank you, Mr. You have the floor. Um, >> there's a microphone on that table there that you could either hold or Yeah,
>> I don't think so. We are going to get it. >> How about that one over there in the well? Does that work? >> Donna, they said they've been using that at council. I'd like to speak up on this. Just project your voice.
>> I'll try. >> Mr. Chairman, members of the board, uh my name is John Bleecker from Bleecker Architectural Group. I'm a founding member of that firm approximately 40ome years ago. Um I graduated from NGIT in 1983. I have over 40 years experience doing
architectural plans, site plans um and um projects, you know, presenting in front of planning board, zoning boards, gas cos, courts of law. I've testified and uh served as an expert in front of boards of of this type over 3,500 times.
Um but at this point uh I would like to um present the case you know and I want to thank the board for having us here tonight and giving us the consideration of being able to present this. Uh but I will adhere to your format whatever format you want me to do. We can tell
that uh would you like me to just continue as this way and >> yes I mean what we would be after is a highlevel discussion summary of of what you're aiming to accomplish with the with the building. >> Thank you Mr. Chair. >> All right. Basically what we have is
this is an existing building. It's mixed use. Um right now there's residential apartments and it was an old dental office. the dental office and one apartment were on the first floor and then there was two apartments on the second level. What we proposed to do is
basically the dental office, he was actually the owner of the property. Uh he has sold the building uh to my client and my client has her business in town in Redbank. She has a tailor shop there. She's been there for quite some time. She also has another location in
Manhattan, but they're in a rental situation and they literally are right now across the street and they want to actually, you know, they bought this building to with the hopes of moving in and you and utilizing one half of the first floor, a little bit more than half, maybe 60% of the first floor for
the tailor shop and then the other part portion would remain as an apartment like this. But the whole first floor is basically looking to get renovated and and um come up to all modern standards. And this is the existing building uh that is there
now. Uh and this colored uh rendition is the elevation of what we're proposing. And I'll go through each element as you um as you see. I know that emailed we had emailed drawings, not sorry, photographs to the board. I don't know
if you had a chance to see. >> Could I could you just pass them up? >> But I mean I can show you these which are this one actually is a very nice picture of the front elevation um which is really the the area that we're going to work on the day.
>> I know. >> Okay. So this is the two dimensional drawing of the picture that's right now. and it shows the the building as it sits. Um, it has a clapboard siding uh which is
really just a it's a vinyl siding which is on the existing building. Uh, it has nice white trim boards uh throughout around the window aluminum. >> Yeah, I see. after >> and uh >> what we propose to do is actually
upgrade that to new AAC boards uh especially around the front porch and then we would like to bring back this old eyebrow kind of vernacular uh for the entrance. The problem personally I had with the building itself is the building kind of looked like it was
split in two pieces. That's the way it was. And and figuratively it actually was because there was actually an entrance for the dental office on the left side and there was another entrance for the apartment on the right side. So hence you had two staircases basically
making this building look like it was there's two elements. Um we when we looked at the application and we wanted to redesign it, we thought that the building deserved a little bit more character than that. Uh so we would like in this presentation to take those two
staircases out, construct one central staircase and basically serve more as like a primary entrance for the building itself. So the building will now read as one building and it'll read as you know very balanced and very structured. Uh
and uh we want to create a central entrance in the in the first floor which will really be the storefront for the tailor shop itself. uh to enhance the entrance, you know, we we um we want to put the eyebrow uh over
the top, you know, so to really give it a really significance to, you know, the location where people would be gravitated to both visually, architecturally, and functionally. Now, when it comes to the elements, the there's an existing railing there now.
And since we are going to take the railing out in the middle and construct the staircase to look exactly like the old staircase, but only in the central location, we're going to take those railings and put them on the sides where we take the stairs away. And um so we're not going to change the the character of
the the materials at all. We are going to take the the center column out uh in the middle here and we're going to do a d a dual column on either side which uh but that detailing of of the columns itself will stay the same as well. So uh
the only other thing that you know architecturally we have to do on the upper level once we do this eyebrow is it affected the clearance for the two center windows. So, we are proposing to take the two windows out, but to keep the same amount of light and
air going into the bedroom areas, which are upstairs, uh we're actually going to combine the windows on the sides with a dual window. Uh and then we will put this circular um architectural vent uh detail in the center to give it some
character. The rest of the elevation will be exactly the same. So, um that's basically, you know, what we're proposing. um with this application. The shingles themselves are three-dimensional uh architectural shingles. We are planning for them to
stay where they are. They're actually in pretty good shape. When we do the eyebrow, we'll just do the eyebrow with the same type of shingle as the existing quilt itself. Obviously here for any other questions, any other things. >> Look like you added a dormer.
>> No, the dormer is existing there. Like could you show me where that is on the picture? Like it looks like you have something coming out on either side of this. >> Oh, this is really if you look at the building itself, this is you know two wall but you don't see the rest of the
structure in that picture. >> So that is >> these little things picking out peeking out of the bag. >> It's because of the >> Oh, okay. >> That must have been >> close. So it's a >> as a person you're only five feet upward
fortunately from that angle you don't see this but when you look at it as a two dimension drawing this is actually the roof that goes to the back of >> okay and is there any way that bent could be yeah more in line with the time
period that the building was made I >> we yeah we have no problem you know I mean detail it I mean honestly very prominent >> historical reference the way it was detailed, >> right? >> We actually specify and pick out. But I mean, we can definitely do. >> Yeah. It's just that when you look at
the building that that and the arch are going to be the things that draw your eye and you know, maybe you could do something to really make it pop with a historical detail other than like a plastic vent or something. I you know, I
I don't know. I mean, what I'm open for that. And then the last question I have is about the railings. If you could pay particular attention since you're replacing these railings anyway, consider kind of a nod to the historical period
in some way. And then um where would the sign appear for the alterations business? >> I'm sorry. >> Where would the where would you be able to see that this is what the business is? Where is where would the signage appear on that?
We really I mean the signage would be we would have something underneath like over the front door back there. >> Okay. >> That's what proposing but we know that >> but the application for the signage isn't made at this time. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And you know our you know our commitment
is to do whatever the your your board would recommend >> whatever the town ordinances you know actually stipulated. We would follow that to the team. >> We're not looking to reinvent that or do anything. Mhm.
>> Do you have any information about the way the building looked when it was built a 100 years ago? Any old pictures or anything like that or evidence perhaps that the duplexish design was original as opposed to it
could have started out the way you want to bring it back and it could have been made a duplex 50 years ago. That's a really good question. We didn't have any historic, you know, photographs or anything any additional information. Um, there has been renovations done on
the building when the dental office took over and like you, you know, like we were talking about. I mean, this siding is not a not Yeah. You know what I mean? This obviously has been added a long time ago. Um but it's not it's it's probably
only onethird of at you know the to the age of real structures. >> I see. >> Um so >> can I sorry can I interject here? >> So the library um has records uh I think
that go back to 1919 and they detail all the arch architectural structures of all the buildings uh that existed then. Um, so they could maybe be consulted. >> You can look at that. But
>> I mean, you know, from what I've seen, the windows themselves on the upper level look like their original locations. >> Downstairs, I can honestly tell you, I think they were old. You know what I mean? I think that was modified from the original probably the original design.
But the whole top level and everything on the top structure itself does look like it was period done. It didn't look like that was changed. At least from my observation. Um but I can't say the same thing for as far as
>> was it a duplex or not that I I can't answer. Can I just add as well that from a historical point of view, uh, Mammoth Street used to be full of houses that looked exactly like this. And if you
look up and down Mammoth Street, you can see actually where storefronts have been built onto the fronts of houses like this in the 1920s,30s, and 40s. And so I think it's really important that this
building maintain its uh um you know architectural um uh significance on the street to show that you know what the the buildings looked like originally. >> So So Liam, you're saying that it
maintains that it looks like a residence versus a a business. well maintains that it it has that kind of uh you know Rivertown Victorian charm basically. >> Well, our design can Did you see the
photograph or the rendering? Can I >> Yeah, maybe you could turn it to them. So, >> uh yeah, sorry I I cannot see it now. >> That's okay because actually that's exactly what we had in mind when we did this design. >> So, we really wanted to keep the vernacular the residential vernacular
together. uh wanted to keep that design intent >> absolutely the same. They didn't want to do a stark commercial kind of storefront which as as you're indicating you know there was a lot of residential looking structures. >> Fortunately where we are right now we're
the only residential looking structure right that strip. >> That's right. We absolutely, you know, are sensitive to the fact that this was residential and we want to keep that veracular impact. And if you can tell from our rendering, you know, that's exactly what
we achieve. So that's really what we're looking for. Um, we do want to enhance it a little bit. >> Get away from this two entrance >> instead of two outside. >> Yeah.
>> I'm trying to understand the front door. Is that is it uh two double doors and then there's windows on either side of that? >> That's exactly what it is. Two doors in the front. Um and it'll have sideways on either side. It's exactly >> Yeah, it looks really nice. And I I do
think it does keep the the character and the charm of the you know original style that was uh that was on Mama Street which was that kind of Victorian Rivertown look with the front porch and
it looks really nice. >> Appreciate. >> So I have a just a a comment. I'm not familiar with that style of porch roof. Um, I think you called it a like an did
did you call it a brow? Is was that the term? >> I I called it an eyebrow because that's kind of what it is. It's a general arch. Um, but you'll see that a lot shingle style homes homes. >> So, >> do we see that anywhere else in the
historic homes or historic businesses in Redbank? >> I is there anything that in town that has that style of roof? I mean, I'm just not familiar with a historic home where the top roof has got this, you know, more of a historic where you would
typically see in residential, let's say, a cornice of some type or decorative moldings um along, let's say, the porch. But here we've got this almost looks like a that not char, but it's almost it's like a wavy porch roof. And I'm not familiar
with that in any of the structures in town. Commissioner, I mean really what I the whole the reason why we put that in is really to give it a little bit more historic reference because and I'm going to be frank with you. Um the craftsmanship that's required to do a
roof like that you would see on older homes. You see on more period homes. >> Yeah. Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Period home is that like where would I find a roof that looks like that? >> I we they're all open. I mean I can I can give you other examples. I don't I
can't say I can give you an example in bank but I definitely if you look at older homes you know three you know 100 years old you'll see a lot of details especially over the front entrances and especially over certain elements that'll
be highly detailed and quite frankly a lot of craftsmanship goes into framing the roofs like you'll have bell towers uh >> and you know you'll have different elements that quite honestly the the craftsman that we have today cannot always achieve. You know, it's something
that, you know, was done many, many years ago by people that were real carpenters who really knew how to do it. >> Yeah. I'm not saying that it's not very difficult or you don't require a lot of skill set to uh to build that. But um
you know it's interesting because we're in the midst of adopting official guidelines from our historic architect and the draft that was sent around as the members may know discusses roofs but I don't see any pictures that would
indicate that we have anything like this in town. So that's my only comment to it. I don't recognize the style. Um I certainly would love to stand to be stand you know corrected on it but I just don't recognize it. You know basically we have a different porch roof
from the top roof. I don't see any historical moldings. Not that it's required but I don't see this I wouldn't look at this and say look at the his look at this his historic home. Um that's just my feeling and within the guidelines I don't recognize that our architect had identified anything like
this um within our town. >> Yeah. But what I will tell you is this detail is something that we see if you go on historic home. You won't see this in a lot of modern. All right. But you do see it in in more historic homes. It's a detail that has a lot of
historical reference to it. And I think that from what I saw of the paper that was put out about the architecture guidelines seems like that's what you know your architect is proposing this have you know bring more back more detailing of of areas because quite
honestly we can just frame it straight the way it is or leave it the way it is be a lot less uh you know difficult to do and a lot more economical to do but we want to do this because we want to bring back that historic character as much as possible with the little amount
of work that we're actually putting on. So, uh, that that's what, you know, our intent is and I respect, you know, um, you know, everything that you've indicated, but, uh, from from our standpoint, this is definitely bringing back more historical reference to the
That's >> Press the button, Karen. Press the button. >> I'm pressing I'm looking Can you hear I'm looking at online and eyebrow rules and it says to do. It's
late 19th early 20th century shingle queen ant tutor revival. Uh oftentimes they're dormers and I can say if you drive down 520 I believe it is on the right hand side just as get out of town
there is a I mean barely there is a um a building that has the that shape of the door and there are several mana squad as well which from the same time period. So, I'm roof versus dormer is the only
consideration, but I think you can find some historic better for this. >> Um, I I guess since we're talking about that entrance, again, the the recommendation that I would also make is if you look at the doors around town, a lot of them do
have an or arch over the door. So something to consider would be to have an arch over the door, maybe with a transom that mirrors the arch above it to kind of make it more cohesive. Just a suggestion.
>> That's that's a great suggestion, but unfortunately we don't have the ceiling height. >> Seven foot high door and then have a mark above it. So what we tried to do is do exactly that same idea but do it in the front porch. But I can do it. I
can't do it behind here. Even though we detailed, if you look at it, you know, closely, we detailed the trim to look like an arch above the door, just like you're indicating, >> but I follow through with the roof line. So, we kind of have that reference. But
unfortunately, the structure is so close that I can't go above that. I don't have the head. Okay, >> I understand. Yeah. >> Any other question comments?
>> So the recommendation will be >> uh do we have a to approve? >> Uh and Shauna, so when are we going to is the signage going to come back to us? >> They have to submit the signage to us. The signage will most likely go to the
minor works committee because they review um signages. Mhm. >> So, um, they haven't submitted a signage application. >> Okay. >> All right. So, uh, do I have a motion to
approve? >> Are there any recommendations? >> Well, I I again, I just like to see something I we don't have to see it, but if they would consider the type of railings as another architectural feature to bring in, that that shouldn't
add to the cost so much. I I have a related question. What is the material of the railings that are there now? >> You look closely at that photograph. You'll see it's just it's an aluminum railing. That's what it is. >> So, it's not original wood. No,
>> it's not original wood. It's aluminum. >> All right. >> But they're taking the railings down. So, what I'm suggesting >> Yes. Right. >> Be glad to put something more >> a little bit more Yeah. more period. Yeah. Yeah. >> Make that commitment to you if you >> Yeah.
>> So, so that that would be mine. And then um the the feature >> recommendation >> the recommendation is consideration of using the railings to highlight the architectural features of the time period. They could do something, you know, with the railings as opposed to
just straight aluminum spokes. And then the other thing would be and somehow consider that feature above the arch as an opportunity to also highlight something about the period the
late 19th century early 20th century. >> So back to the railings. So you do not want aluminum railings. I I I don't know how the other people feel, but I mean, we definitely I think want something with a little bit more
detail than just aluminum railings. >> Detailed. Um >> I mean, you could see the picture is just >> Well, what your your plan is? What is your plan to do? You said earlier you're going to remove the railings. I mean a
lot of some of the railing is obviously remaining but >> where we have the front where we had the side I'm sorry where we had the side >> stairways there's no railing just going to take the railing in the middle where we put the new steps >> and just put them on the sides that was
the initial that's what this design show >> and you were going to reuse the railings or use >> okay existing >> oh I guess >> yeah not to upset the apple apart we thought better to just leave it the way gave us match it.
>> We don't have a problem at all with changing it to a more period design. My clients very, you know, very on board with that if the board is, you know, that's one of the things they want us to see. >> So, the railings are to be not aluminum
but any other material but aluminum, vinyl. What What are we thinking? I don't know. >> No, I think again if if they are starting fresh a new with that front section of the house, I'm just saying
it's an opportunity. The architect has said they're trying to bring it back to look like it did. That would be an opportunity to introduce some architectural detail. That would be a recommendation that I would have if they can do that and then also take the focal
piece in the center and do something that also allows them the opportunity to bring in architectural detail. That to me would that would um enhance the design and and truly make it look more like a
residence. >> That would be that would be my >> We have no problem. >> All right. and I don't have any problem with that. So, uh that I mean does do any does anybody else agree with my recommendation? >> Yes. >> Well, I I was just going to suggest that
maybe uh the architect could walk around the historic district to maybe get ideas from other homes that that are similar in style. >> Can I make a point here? It looks very much like a Sears house to me. uh Sears
company that had the kits and in fact there is one with that same kind of roof which I'll send to you. Um but it just has a classic sense especially when there were several in the street. Oftentimes there Sears Sears and Robux houses that you ordered the kit. So I'm
I'm really pretty sure that was originally a Sears house and they do have that style of >> Okay. So, um, >> the roof design in the front is fine is what Karen's saying. >> Yeah, I have a few I just want to make
sure that we're >> Yeah, the eyebrow roof is fine. >> So, don't trouble the arch. Okay. >> No. >> And then >> and the material of the ballisters for the railing >> and they're you're reusing the
ballisters that are there or you're introducing new ballasters, the porch support. right now railing and the ballast that's what's there >> we we will as another commissioner just suggested you know go through the historic district and >> and change the detail of the railing we
don't have an issue with that >> okay >> right unfortunately we have to adhere the current boat which is 4 in >> all balister boat you know widths but >> other than that you know we we can modify it >> can I suggest maybe just as far as like
a a preference whichever material mission thing or materials, but one where the ballisters terminate at a bottom rail. Just looking at the the guidelines, that seems to be a more historic look. I think that
what's there now, it it pokes below um a railch a lot more modern. >> The poach. So, you're >> you're saying the basters are terminate not at the deck, but at a bottom. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> That's fine.
Okay. And then um so will you request also I'm the commission that um before the development permit is issued they provide revised drawings to the
commission um just for review um to see if this is what you had in mind or do you want them to come back again or can they be approved if they send the revised the own changed the railings >> and I I wondered if they could have some
kind of feature other than that circle. >> Oh, okay. Just trying to remember the board. We really want not want to delay the project. >> No, no, I think it I don't think they have to come back to another meeting. >> Oh, but just the revised drawings just I'll send it out to >> the same.
>> Yeah, right. That's fine. >> So, the window the ventilation windows you want something else done with it? I it just >> Well, if what is that exactly? Is that simply a an like It's not a real window. It's not
a real vent. >> The vent itself. >> Yes. >> No. Wouldn't be real because >> Okay. There's surface behind it. It's not >> all right. So, it's going to look >> This is This is historical. And then, you know, we I can definitely pick something that has more of a period detail.
>> Yes, >> that's that's fine. That's actually very simple to do, >> but we would like to keep the shape and the style and the proportion that we have now. >> Would you be able >> show sample of what? >> Yeah, that's fine. >> I think I know the answer to this question, but I ask.
>> Would you be able to actually put a round window there? >> No, >> because that's the dividing. >> I figure there was a wall >> between the compartments. That's why we didn't do it. >> Okay. Okay.
Sha clear. >> Yep. I just wanted the conditions to be more clear. >> Okay. So, you don't have to come back here. >> And uh Good luck, ladies. Good luck. >> Wait, we didn't vote. >> Oh, sorry. >> We need we need a motion. >> I'll make the motion.
>> Okay. Any second? >> Second. >> Okay. >> Uh Lu Marini >> approve. >> Harrier Cavalere. >> Yes. >> William Collins. I >> Paul Kagno.
>> Yes. >> Smells >> and Betsy Valera >> approved. >> Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you. Here's your picture. Good luck. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> What tailor shop it is? >> What?
>> The one by mom street. >> What's it called? >> It's surgeon. The tailor shop. >> Oh, okay. You did my daughter my dress for my daughter's wedding. >> I see those beautiful ones. >> Hey,
>> thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Uh, next matter of old business is u the red bank register building on that.
Yes, a few months ago, um it was brought to our attention by several commissioners um of the uh changes to the Red Bank Register Building, which I believe is 40 Broad Street. Um
since that time, uh I've reached out to code enforcement, um and they submitted to them a violation notice. Um since they failed to um submit an application
to this board for the exterior facade work um they have now received a summon for court and they will be their court date is scheduled for
September 4th. Um, so we will hear from the code enforcement. I will hear from the code enforcement officer and I'll report back to you on what the decision was. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank uh shall we move back to the uh
design guideline committee and presentation? >> Okay. So, um, design guidelines. Um, you should have all received a draft and Stephen is here today to answer any questions that the commissioners have.
Uh, let me say that um, working with him. So far, we are very pleased uh, with the product that was sent to you for comment. Would you like me to promote you to panelist so you could share the screen or to present or you want me to do it?
>> That would be easiest. >> Okay. Just let me know that you have the option to share screen. Awesome. >> Christina, did you want to come up here so you could see the screen
>> there? I'm sorry. >> I know. >> But I think this is >> I know, but just, you know, just so you >> don't hurt your neck is what I'm concerned about. one day.
>> No, not that, but the Zoom mic. Yeah, that's that's what able to do my minutes off of. >> Paul, >> yes. Stephen Paul, can you hear Stephen? >> Betsy is still there. >> Oh, yeah. I'm still here.
>> I'm I'm here. I I I see the design guidelines on the screen, but I haven't heard Stephen speak yet. >> You have >> Can you hear him now? >> No. >> You could pop in the little one of these. I think these guys work. >> So, it's not plugged in. >> No.
>> Oh, it's not plugged in. >> Mine was I think mine turned on. >> No, it's not. >> Oh, not the [Music] Is this better if I just sit here? Maybe. >> Now I can hear you, Stephen.
>> You hear me now? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. No problem. >> It's We should pass. >> This is a bond. >> No, this was in the budget. Um sure that
our oldest sound system I don't know. Let's move on because it's a neat. Yeah, >> it's a lot more comfortable, too. Um, okay. Good evening everyone. Stephen Smallen, Architectural Heritage Consultants. Um, I'm going to give the
commission an overview of the project, bring everyone up to speed on on what I've been working on with the subcommittee over the past couple. >> Turn on your mic, too, just for those. Yeah, there we go. >> Oh, now it's on. >> Yeah. >> Oh, perfect. Okay. So
the focus of uh this presentation tonight is one of the two components of the project which is the design guidelines. I will be back in a couple months to talk about architectural surveys.
The design guidelines uh have been into three different phases. It started back in May with research and analysis. We established a committee. I did documentation. I walked around the two historic districts, looked at some
of the other remote historic sites. Um, I think I've taken close to eight or 900 pictures of Redbank so far during the course of this project. And you see about 150 of them in the draft. Um, the second phase of the project was the development
of the draft of the guidelines themselves. uh starting with a table of contents, graphic layout and also the different policies or the guidelines themselves. Here we are at an HPC
meeting and the next phase which I'll be working on over the next um let's say a month or two will be the actual implementation of the design guidelines um which will include formal adoption and also a dedicated public outreach uh
event to teach people um how to use these design guidelines. So back in May, we established a committee which was composed of Marjorie, Karen, Anthony, Marin from the
River Center and of course uh Shauna. The committee has acted as a steering group, especially with the River Center involved. They're meant to represent the key stakeholders uh that will be following these design guidelines in the coming years.
They're meant to the the committee has um discussed a bunch of different issues. Um design guidelines are complicated. There's a lot of detail that goes into them and a lot of little decisions along the way. And I think we've done a good job of of uh building
consensus in the four meetings that we've had um since May to develop uh the policies that you see in the design guidelines which are at the end of each of the sections and we'll talk about that in a moment. We started with a survey back in May. This
is just an excerpt uh from that survey which um delved into a bunch of different policy options to understand from this committee where the Red Bank HPC stands on a whole host of issues and
where you're kind of looking to go uh with future policy. So this survey informed by the five committee members really underpinned all of the policy that you see throughout the design. an important
um component of of design guidelines or even just serving on a historic preservation commission is the distinction between contributing buildings in your district versus
non-contributing buildings. And I think it's it's fairest and most effective long-term to write design guidelines primarily for the contributing buildings, the really historic stuff that everybody thinks about when they
they think of historic Redbank and what it once was, the stuff that's still here. Um there's a formal definition for that. Obviously, that's kind of the succinct one. and and there's design guidelines that are specific and on the
stricter end in order to preserve those historic buildings and that historic fabric that you still have. However, within any historic district, there's going to be a couple um intrusions or non-contributing buildings
and and they're part of the district. um they likely were built after the district's end of period of end of the period of significance for the district. So let's think like they were built since 1970. They were built in the 80s, the 90s. And and they have they have a
part to play, but they shouldn't necessarily be following the same design guidelines you would apply to something that was built in 1860. Um, so I I put a couple examples of non- obviously non-contributing buildings um
spread throughout the Washington and Broad Street historic districts here. And and this is actually defined in your ordinance what a non-contributing building is. And that's the definition I included below. Um, and and what it means to be reviewing a non-contributing building is really just preventing an
eyes sore in the historic district from exacerbating or or being being created. Um, it's about compatibility and that's why all the design guidelines for non-contributing buildings emphasize compatibility.
The audience for the design guidelines is important to just remember as we go into um this first draft. There's kind of three different groups. There's um like we just saw the applicant and public that have one set of of questions and needs from the design guidelines.
There's their architects or other design professionals that maybe are a little bit more technically minded. And lastly, there's yourselves the the commission and staff uh who are meant to administer the design guidelines and decisions in a
um objective man coming years. So before we get to the draft, I just want to uh key everyone in on kind of the next steps just to measure everyone's commentary and understand what comes next. uh in September. So,
next month, I'm planning on having a final draft done and I will be presenting that um to you all again. You'll get that ahead of time to look at and then in October that'll move forward to the planning board and then up the chain to the mayor and council uh for
adoption. And the kind of uh exact sequence is is going to get worked out, but that's that's roughly how things are looking. And then in November is when we are looking to do a public outreach event which um Marjorie has has helped
with with already scheduling at the library and we'll be publicizing that of course to make sure we get a lot of people there. So, so the the library is going to put this on their website and it I don't know if you could see it there. basically establishes the time
period in the meeting room and and it mentions it just says join us for this November meeting Q&A and design guidelines for property owners >> and we'll do direct outreach to the different real estate brokerages in town
architects make sure we get as many of them if not there in person certainly watching either live on Zoom which which I'll set up or or the recording any questions questions before we proceed with the draft uh itself on just
that introduction. Okay. So the design guidelines draft you all received is uh 90 something pages in length. I have um excerpts of it within this presentation. Um feel free to stop
me at any time with with questions or comments. uh that's that's what I'm here to get. Uh so that we can make the final as as good as possible. Um if I didn't include a page that you want to talk about, I can certainly pull that up in the background. But just to dive into
it, the um cover, I'm still working on the pictures. I want to make sure everything's in daylight, so a few of these may change for the final. Uh but then you'll see on on page three is the table of contents. That's how the whole book is organized. Um there's an
introduction, historic context, which is quite detailed, and then the design guidelines themselves that run for about 50 pages. Right after that is the additions and new construction section. And then
lastly, uh is the appendicy and I think in the version that's posted online of the guidelines already, this entire table of contents is hyperl. So you can actually just click on those topics and you'll go right to those pages. So you don't need to scroll through everything.
>> So Stephen, I just want to mention for the benefit of of the other commissioners, um, one of the conversations that we had was that if an example is included in this and it's a private residence
that the number of the house would not be mentioned. >> Yeah, that's fine. are totally fine. Towns handle differently. Some want every single address, some want no addresses. And I think doing >> right, you know, in the in the historic part in the narrative in the beginning
where you're highlighting where a building stood once or has changed, that's that's that's fine. But when you kind of point to examples throughout the book, Yeah. just not the private residents address.
>> Sure. So, continuing on to pages seven and eight, this is um I think a really good resource that probably goes beyond the design guidelines, which is which is finally having a good isolated map of
your historic districts in one place. There's a more detailed one in the appendicy and the list of historic landmarks is in progress and I'm still verifying that with with it with the city and um your your council. The
review process has gone through a few rounds um with with Michelle. She's been very helpful in untangling the way that Redbank interprets and and has set up your HPC. So, this may evolve slightly as well. Um, it's on this page, page
eight, that you'll see what minor applications are, so people understand as your ordinance is written that you comply with the design guidelines and you can get your project approved pretty quickly, which is good. And then in the bottom right, there's a hyperlink to
your ordinance itself. Moving on to pages 10 and 11 here. Um, the preservation philosophy is just meant to kind of be a quick crash course for people as to why um why, you know,
history is important to Red Bank's current um success as a town, how the HBC approaches uh materials, how the HPC acknowledges that many many buildings in town have been altered over time and and
some alterations are more s significant and successful. than others and the importance of authenticity. Um, page 11 is an important one that you should really be looking at I think during every meeting which are the secretary of the interior standards
specifically for rehabilitation. There are 10 standards for preservation, restoration and reconstruction. Um, but what you're dealing with most of the time, like even the application you just saw 15 minutes ago, is a rehabilitation
project. I'm not going to spend too much time on the historic context section because that's gotten a lot of attention from the committee. If anything is um factually incorrect, missing, overstated
in this section, by all means, let me know. Um, but the history runs from pages 13 to page looks like 19. And that's meant to be more of an architectural history of Redbank. And then the architectural styles,
um, not meant to be every single style in the historic district, but stuff that has a couple examples is on pages 20 through 20. And the importance of that section is if you're dealing with
just go back to tonight a queen an style um building you can go to page 22 and there's a description of queen anne there and right below there are the character defining features of queen anne from just in general roof cladding
windows porch doors those are important things to make sure the application is not removing if they're existing that's like fundamental um thing. So that's why this section is is I think is helpful and there's examples
two one to two examples of each uh style adjacent to it and I'll go through and edit the addresses like Marjorie just said. Moving on um to the design guideline section. Uh there's an introductory page
like a primer on on 25 and I've enlarged that on the screen here. There's a howto uh which is kind of like a key, a legend that sets out when you see a box with a black border, that's guidelines for a contributing building. If it's a gray
border, that's a non-contributing. And when you're reading stuff within the red box, that's the do not do in the historic district. Along the um right third of the pages, there are occasionally um excerpts from the Secretary of the
Interior Standards. You'll see the National Park Service plaque for that. Priorities of the HPC, like really important stuff. You want people to come to meetings understanding so you're not repeating it every month. Those are denoted by um an iceboat icon like your
your town logo has. And then lastly, if you see the dot dot dot, those are going to be hyperlinks to hundreds and hundreds of pages of very detailed guidance uh that the National Park Service has put out over the last 40 or
50 years. Um there is on this page, this is page 25, a discussion related to like substitute and composite and imitative uh materials, which is always a hot topic and even came up during that application just now. And I've included
the checklist, the new checklist from about two years ago for when substitute materials may be considered. And this is, by the way, for use in a contributing building. you can be a little bit more should be a lot more lax about substituting composite materials
in a non-contributing building. And and here are just some examples of what that what those are. So the middle picture here is real slate, genuine stone slate versus plastic slate. And that's actually considered by the Secretary of
the Interior not to be a very successful example. You lost a lot of detail there. You don't have to texture the slate. They put this strange uh corner cap and it it changed a lot about that tower. And um by composite materials I'm
talking about things you hear like party board, ASAC, um tracks, even fiberglass I would put in the the composite category. Just fake imitative not necessarily always bad but
not not wood, stone, brick. And there's six different I'm sorry, seven different criteria when when those can be considered. And that's >> I have you can I interrupt for for a second because >> I'm just trying to uh practically see
where this is going because application after application this the board historically has allowed um AAC wrap, right? Um it looks like wood. That's the stuff that looks like wood, right? and and also the Hardy board is strewn about the historic
district currently. So that's going to change. Is that the plan that we're not going to allow homeowners who have wood houses to use the materials that last forever and look like wood? If you're dealing with a house that's presently clad in vinyl,
um anything is going to be better than that siding wise. So that's certainly a place that Hardy is is going to be appropriate. Um, I think the guidelines speak to a situation where you have a homeowner that has like wood siding or a
wood porch and they're looking to do something plastic and that's not appropriate. And there are a lot of unfortunate examples in Redbank of that happening over time and I think a like a core mission of the HPC should be to
really mitigate that in the coming years. So I think that's >> Yeah, but yeah, I think the problem that we hear is the expense of it all. You know, the expense to replace wood siding on a house that's only going to last, you know, not quite as long as the materials that a lot of the residents in
Redbank are currently using. And we had a member in this commission who was before us who just did his house, a wood house, and everyone approved it wholeheartedly, right? Um and put on a material that looks exactly like wood. So, I mean, I'm just trying to get look
down the road of what's going to be feasible to this community. Um, certainly not vinyl wrap on the house, but I think some of these other products that look like wood, I don't not sure that stopping residents is going to be the best way for the
commission to go, especially that we haven't been doing that specifically for our own members. I mean, just does anybody else see the irony? I guess not. >> I I also uh share some of that opinion
about the the actual feasibility and the um the the burden that no alternate replacements would put on these residents. Um, I loved reading the the history portion and noting especially I
mean um I think we're primarily discussing the residential uh with this consideration, but I loved reading like this really was this was working and middle class housing. I don't think you can say that anymore about the area, but
this pushes it even further in that direction in terms of the affordability um uh of those homes. And and many times, I think Paul, the commission would agree, we have people who purchase because they love the the look. They really respect
these homes um and do want to they want to keep it looking the same way. they wanted to continue to add to the charm but are looking at the you know the newest and best most robust materials that keep that appearance. So I I would just ask that you know the commission
cons consider that um and especially hoping that this is a document for the long term and these materials continue I think to improve over time. I would hate for us to say >> that no replacement is feasible.
um you know now or in the future and and that cut off some opportunities. >> Yeah. I mean the commission's here to exercise a degree of like reasonleness on every application. I it's my hope and I I think achievable that you guys will
be able to follow these guidelines nine out of 10 times. Let's say the vast vast majority. Um, the Secretary of the Interior revised their guidance on on substitute materials just two years ago and and
this checklist reflects that. And what they effectively did was add the four more um criteria at the bottom of that list. And and this I think provided a lot of flexibility to people, which is why I'm I'm pretty um eager to put this
in the guidelines. and and the the fifth one down there that you'll see is replacement of a secondary feature. >> So, what page are you referring to? >> I'm on I'm still on page 25 at at the checklist in the bottom right. And replacement of a secondary feature is a
is a place that you can you can appropriately consider the use of a composite or substitute material. So, I think what that's doing is really focusing the HPC's attention on on the primary features of the building, which
I can better define um in the final in the final draft. It's it's sort of done in the architectural styles already. Um but I think that gives homeowners a pretty good degree of latitude that you're not looking for like wood on every square inch of the exterior of
their house like a Kate May might be. like I'm I'm acknowledging that. Um, but for a porch right on Washington Street that you know, maybe it's from the late 1800s and you're doing a railing alteration, it should really be wood.
There's like not to there's no way to twist the Secretary of the Interior guidelines to say it should be anything other than that. um and and your ordinance references this and I think it'll be really helpful if the HPC
administers it in a consistent way going forward. Yeah, I would say I I think we have been doing what what consistently is the porch railings, the moldings around the windows, the moldings, um the the sophets. We've been saying wood. It's
really what I've seen us the commission do is allowing the siding. I don't know. I don't know if you call it hardy back or not. I don't know if that was the term. I mean, what Doug put on his house um a couple months ago looks like wood. I don't know what that is, but he left.
He left wood. Um, like I said, around the moldings, his porch is still wood. Uh, you know, his sophets are wood. The the other uh the other material uh historic features around the are
so that's where I'm going with that. I think that a lot of residents when they have enough money to come and repair their the wood is is deteriorated beyond repair, they're asking to come in and not not wrap it with vinyl, but wrap it with stuff that's going to last for 50
years, you know, and and I'm I think we're going to run into a little push back if we say, you know what, you can't do that. You got to put the stuff on that you're ripping off that didn't last the first time. Um that's just my opinion on it. And I think the residents who came in from um Irving,
you know, was a good example of what I think this we're going to face. >> Well, if the material >> to have an exception, you know, to have an exception, you know, to give us a little bit of leeway to make an exception for a homeowner, um I think is very important.
>> Yeah, of course. Um, and there is an important line I should have flagged um that I think it was actually Michelle that had me add on the bottom of page six which relates to it's the last line on page six under purpose and intent and
design guidelines that each application is considered on a case-byase basis and the HPC obtains the discretion to weigh the guidelines accordingly. Um it would be very unfortunate if you guys did not
follow the design guidelines every single night. Um but that does give you a degree of latitude of course in making decisions and and if the material was um not sufficient. It was a poor original material which woodsiding is
not and there's plenty of documents >> and examples of that lasting effectively forever. Um, that's the third criteria in the checklist for when substitute materials can be considered. Um, if I'll tell you like wood siding a lot easier
to repair over time than than hardy plank. I mean hardy plank you're cutting into cement. There's stuff particles going everywhere. It's kind of a whole situation uh to repair hardy plank. And I think it would wellmaintain painted
regularly is going to last longer than hardy plank. It's going to provide the like profile and it's going to maintain the historic integrity of the house which is what this is what the guidelines are really after at the end of the day.
Uh and just for clarification, this checklist of what is that eight points on page 25 in terms of substitute materials. Um some of them obviously are about uh secondary features, but this
would apply to cladding to roofs if the substitute or intent to substitute meets these criteria. >> Yes. Yes. And this is like distilled to the bare minimum in terms of length. Uh
I can if I didn't already include a link to the secretary of the interior's preservation brief. Um it will I'll add that and that goes into a lot more detail and all those different elements um as to what what's
appropriate and why pictures >> even this will mostly refer this checklist would mostly refer to contributing buildings correct and not non and non contributing wouldn't have such a stringent checklist
>> but I need to make that more clear that this is for >> I mean we're talking about The building we talked about earlier when the architect was here I that's not contributing. I mean it's wrapped in I believe is that the way we go?
>> Yeah. >> Wow. >> I mean it's vinyl siding and >> vinyl railing. I mean it if it could be restored perhaps to be a contributing building but clearly it's got you know as best
asphalt shingles you know good asphalt shingles but I mean the metal rails you know when he talked about oh replacing them with something I have to laugh because most people who look to replace that are
going to put plastic and there's very good plastic railings out there, but I mean it's not something we would recommend. Um, yeah, it's challenging and, you know, we've run into that with several applicants who purchased houses or are already in
homes that have beautiful slate roofs on them, but the roofs are now 100 years old. They're leaking profusely and they don't have six figures lying around to put into a new roof. And it's a tough discussion.
I'm just curious, uh, Stephen, in in dealing with other communities, are there, uh, grants available or or do, um, local governments give tax incentives to, um, people in historic districts so that
they they can use um, materials that have integrity. Yeah, genuine historic materials or more broadly, there's grants available for projects that comply with the Secretary of the Interior standards um
especially for like commercial revenue generating properties. Shipo administers a grant. I think it still exists um to tax abatement. Um there are municipalities that have um private
organizations that that provide grant funding. There's there's cities like we've heard from the River Center. Uh Jersey City has a program where they they contribute a lot to new storefronts or restorations of historic storefronts. Um, there's towns, this is probably
easier to do that actually provide an abatement on the incremental value you add to the house after doing a a project that the HBC approved. Um, I don't think any of those exist in Redbank, but they could certainly come into effect in the
future. I'm gonna move I'm going to move on to the uh roof section. Uh so just to flag a few things here. >> You'll see that on the first page of the section. This applies to both your Broad Street Historic District and the
Washington Street Historic District. This is an excerpt right out of uh the Secretary of the Interior um narrative related to roofs. There's an um description here about roofs generally historically in Redbank within the two
districts. And then on page 27 again um a lot of design guidelines have to do with materials. There's a chart um related to replacement of primary roofs
on contributing buildings. And this is essentially encouraging people that still have uh slate, wood, or metal roofs to just replace them in kind. It's not appropriate to take a slate roof, replace it with an asphalt shingle roof.
It's unlikely that an entire slate roof would ever have to be replaced. It's typically just the underllayment. You can take the shingles off to to deal with that. Um, and then the fourth row here is probably the vast majority of of of buildings in Redbank, which are
asphalt or non-historic uh roofing material. And that's providing flexibility for people to of course replace that in kind. You can always take your asphalt shingles off and put new asphalt shingles on. However, if you'd like to look at a wood
or a slate roof, uh which which some people may, um that should just be something based on historical documentation that we shouldn't be putting wood or cedar shake roofs on on houses that once had um standing seam
metal roofs for example. Then at the end of the roof section after you get through cornises, dormers, ornamental features, gutters, chimneys, you come to the design guidelines. They're numbered, designed for
contributing buildings, two for non-contributing buildings, and then two inappropriate treatments listed with also some pictures uh adjacent to all this. Um the guidelines generally follow a similar form. First one is going to be
big picture preserving uh that architectural feature. The second guideline deals with what inkind repair would mean in this case for a roof when uh replacement is necessary because the HPC should always be looking to if
historic fabric or material exists to to really preserve and maintain that. Um, guideline four here is about appropriate primary roof materials. So, that was the chart we just looked at. Guideline five is secondary roof materials, which is
typically just going to be asphalt, shingle. Um, then there's guidelines on chimneys, gutters, equipment, and skylights. And then the non-contributing ones again are essentially just trying to not trying to avoid creating an eyes
sore when it comes to roofs. Uh any questions on roofs before I move on exterior cladding. So we're moving down building um also applies to both historic districts. There's m guidance on masonry wood siding shingles in here.
There's a chart again um about materials and this is a common one. If you have existing vinyl, what's appropriate, that's the type of thing where anything is better than vinyl for so so many reasons. Um that's a great place to look
at Hardy Plank. That's consistent with the Secretary of the Interior standards for sure. Um, we left that yellow because we wanted to hear the commission's thoughts on permitting the inind replacement of vinyl for vinyl.
Um, there are, I think, a minority of towns in New Jersey that I've dealt with that would allow that type of thing to happen. A lot of HPC's are kind of they've taken this stance that we're getting rid of vinyl. It's not historic. It's not white
people designated this district historic and it just really should not be added in the future. Thoughts on that? >> I hate vinyl. Um I agree. I I mean we're setting
standards here. I think in the standards we should make clear that vinyl is not appropriate and obviously a case by case if there are compelling reasons to
make exception we could do that but I don't think we set a I don't think we start with a low bar here. >> Okay. Any other thoughts on that or we good there? Okay. The guidelines for um exterior cladding.
I'm just going to see if there's any I should highlight for you all. Um Ephus, by the way, refers to it's an abbreviation for exterior insulation and finish system. It became popular in like the late 70s and 80s. It's what like
strip made out of. It's like a cementitious material. It tends to leak. It's gotten a little better recently, but it's it's really not a historic material. There's not a tremendous amount of it in Redbank. There's certainly more vinyl.
Um it's not a historic material. It's not it's like a cheap stucco. It's not a good replacement for for real stock. Okay. Um, moving on to windows. So, we're on page 38 of the guidelines. This applies to both districts. Again, there
are diagrams related to just how to talk about windows because there's like dozens and dozens of terms you can you can use and are important for everybody to understand. Uh, different types one over one, three over one, bladian windows um are diagrammed on page 39.
There's a diagram on the bottom right of page 39 about um simulated versus true divided lights. Um most of the time I think you're going to see people proposing simulated divided
lights. Um not true divided lights. At a minimum they should be putting something on the exterior of the glass. It should not be uh buttons between the glass or buttons on the inside of the glass. you want to get some some profile and depth on the exterior of the glass. So that's
why that diagram is important. On page 40 is another chart about existing primary window material on a contributing building versus what's appropriate. I think the same conversation
um and and thought probably applies here related to vinyl windows and replacement with either vinyl or essentially financially equivalent composite like a fiberglass or fibrox.
There's so many different names for it. Um I think it would be great to not add any more vinyl windows um to contributing buildings in Redbank. So that's that's what this chart will say. Um at the end, by the way, there's an in
the appendix. So you don't have to go there now, but all the way back on page 87 and 88, there's an entire matricy of a dozen window manufacturers and what um I tried to kind of translate the
lingo between all these manufacturers. So, if you see a certain type of window and this brand line, um, you'll understand that it's a wood window versus a vinyl window. There are way more vinyl window options than wood window options. And people get a little
confused about woodcloud windows versus woodwood wood windows. Um, so that's what that chart at the end of the guidelines I hope untangles and can be viewing reference for everybody because the HBC is concerned about of course what what the window looks like from the outside. They don't care that you're
seeing wood within your space and there are very few people doing wood windows at this point on the exterior of the building. They're harder to maintain and and the guidelines are not pushing people to always be using wood windows. they're providing for um the use of
composits in in many many instances. So that's that's a wood window that has some type of cladding over to protect it over time. Window related question, >> as you know, there's been a trend in recent years, especially new construction
>> for black windows or bronze windows. And we have had um people with historic homes or historic structures come in and um ask about to the extent they need to
replace the existing windows in historic homes if they uh can change the color to bronze or black. As long as they preserve, as long as the
new window in all other respects is architecturally, texture-wise and number of lights, etc., you know, consistent with what the original window was. >> What is our what should our view be on
that? I have to think about that one um and go back through pictures of the district because there are quite a few examples of darker windows. Um it's a color thing. Um
I have to think about that one. I I'll have that sorted out by the September draft. It's it's come up several times. I mean, there's a there's a house we just approved uh the work on and then after the fact
when they started they were originally going to replace the window uh >> repair the windows >> and then they started getting into it and realized they were not repairable >> cost effectively. So they asked if
yeah they said okay these are the colors we intend to use and in that conversation they mentioned bronze. I have to think about that. I mean it my initial thought is that it's it's not appropriate. Um, but we have to come up
with a little more substance, I think, to describe why that's not appropriate and why it's hard to see the Latin pattern because it blends in with the glass and and everything else that happens. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Let let me think about that. I'll put that in. Any other questions on windows, by the
way, before I move on or comments? I I just want to say um that on the window guidelines on page 42 um you know I I agree with the inappropriate examples
um and I we may get push back because they don't want to put in central air and take the the windows hanging on the front of the buildings but I think that we still should say it's inappropriate.
I don't I don't know if anybody cares, but you know the fact that you could have the hanging on the front of it. >> I think it gets back to we're saying standards here. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Obviously, there can be and everything be case by case, but we we
set an appropriate bar, right? That's what this >> No, I'm just saying that I agree I agree with the examples of inappropriate on on the on the guidelines page for Windows. >> Yes. So, porch and entrances is only for the
Washington Street Historic District. Um, there's a diagram of the different components of a porch that those seven things are what you should be seeing with every porch application. Uh, railings and lattice work, which I think
was even referenced um on the application tonight. There's a diagram on page 45 about that. the importance of uh no vinyl lattice, always framing the lattice. Um putting skirting board between the lattice and the rail gap
between the rail, not running the rail down to the deck boards. That's that's all in the diagram. >> And there's also um a diagram on 46 put in a better place. it's not next to
the lighting section about enclosing a front porch. Um unfortunately there's a a couple examples of that on Washington Street. Um and there's even one example which which we included I think outside of the district of someone unenclosing a
porch which is on the top of page 47 and and on the presentation here. That's a great thing to continue to encourage. the guidelines for porches. Um, we'll see on page 47 and I think they're pretty comprehensive.
Next, uh, component of porches, doors, again only for the Washington Street Historic District. Um there are a lot of uh very well preserved particularly double doors um throughout
the Washington Street Historic District. So that's something that I think has been done really well um here in Breb Bankank and and that should should continue. Garage doors is tucked into this section as well. That's on page 50 and on 51 is where you'll see the
guidelines for doors. Um, it's essentially about if you have a wood door, especially if it's covered by a porch, it's probably in good enough shape to be repaired. Um, and should be. No one should be going to Lowe's or Home
Depot to buy a a vinyl or fiberglass door with that funny um gold patterning on the on the glass like the two bad examples on 51 are that that really degrades the the historic district and streetscape. Okay,
page 52 in storefronts. This is an important one for Broad Street. And I'm going to at this time actually pass around these brochures I made to summarize this section which I'm >> to the river center next week.
>> Thank you. >> I got one. >> Oh, she left. You could take you could unless you want >> everything in the brochures is already in the it's just simplified in the
brochure. Um so the storefront section has a diagram of like a prototypical historic storefront and the seven components of that. And then
on page 55 is sort of flowchart um to understand what type of treatment you should be doing um for a storefront. This is something that just from like firsthand experience um serving in HPC advising the Monontlair HBC I see a lot
of people get tripped up on this >> commissioners and applicants even architects as to to what they're doing and what treatment they're supposed to be following. So this this flowchart on 55 is is meant to demystify that and the
brochure is is all built um around this. So you'll see um if you open the brochure there are three different um columns. Those are restoration, rehabilitation and new construction. So
restoration, rehabilitation, um people use fortunately interchangeably they mean different things and those are go going back to the secretary of the interior standards. There's separate and distinct kind of philosophies for both
of those. Um a restoration project is this is for a contributing building. There's historic documentation available and the objective of a restoration project is to return that storefront to
as it once existed in an earlier time within the historic district's period of significance. So let's just say 1920. We're here in 2025. You're returning that storefront to how it existed in 1920. In order to do that, this there should
be an intact historic storefront. photos of the historic storefront. So, you're doing a faithful uh restoration. This is not an appropriate treatment for newer buildings, stuff that was built after the historic district's period of significance, and not where you're
looking to change uh the historic look. So the brochure shows a before restoration example of some semblance of architectural fabric remaining and then the lower picture is what a successful restoration
uh would look like after the rehabilitation treatment which is effectively an alternative to a restoration and the type of thing you would do if there's not good historical
documentation of what once once existed. Um, same thing. It's it's for older buildings. There's some historic fabric maybe remaining. Um, maybe you can reference an adjacent prototype to for uh use in this in this rehabilitation, but you're making some
alterations and you're updating the storefront for a modern use. I think the vast majority of applications you're going to see are rehabilitation. The application you saw 30 minutes ago was a rehabilitation project and you're meant
to be retaining and repairing uh character defining features. It's all about compatibility in terms of what's being added um to the storefront. So you're evaluating it for that. the questions. Um, I think it was Paul that was asking about
um, is this curving eyebrow thing actually compatible with the style of this very altered Queen Anne building? I think are like right in line with with what you should be doing for for a rehabilitation um, project.
Then the last treatment that you'll see storefronts is is just new construction. They're building something new. This is a a building from 1970 1980. It has a storefront. You're altering it. It's a brand new building. Um you're going for
compatibility. Again, this is where um appropriate if there's like absolutely no historic fabric because it's a new building and you're just making sure um essentially that the storefront has the majority of the components that a
historic storefront whatnot. Like we're not talking about pseudo or fake history here, but there should be datams for some type of solid bulkhead, a display window, a transom, like there should be a semblance of that somewhere um in the design. So, it's contemporary uh yet
contextual to the rest of the historic district. >> I think Paul has a comment. >> Oh, sure. Paul, >> uh Stephen, so when that gentleman was, you know, when he put the eyebrow thing on that lower roof, if that was a contributing piece of
property in town, we would shy away from allowing him to do that. But since it's not contributing, we're okay with that. or is it it's more sub you know how how how do we treat that because he was changing the lower porch roof um right as compared to the overall
picture of the house. So how how how do we address that? >> So you're always looking at that type of project um for its compatibility with the building and the immediate like other or historic buildings the context.
Yeah, >> honestly I'd have to do a little bit more research to actually determine if that was a contributing building or not. It certainly is very altered, but it does still have the form that it it likely once had. Um, and if it's the
last of or was once a series of of houses on Mammoth Street, that that may may very well be a contributing building. It just happens to be cloud in vinyl and some cheap railings. Um I'm not sure, but um you're looking at the
addition in relation to the style of the house. Um what remains? Maybe it's multiple styles, but like do queen an eyebrow porches. The answer is typically no. I haven't seen one um historically.
Um >> so that so that's what you're looking for. It's similar for a storefront like on on Broad Street like is this storefront that's being proposed tonight like compatible? Does this like work with the rest of the district? Is it
harmonious or is it drawing a lot of attention to itself and maybe something more appropriate for like an enclosed mall? >> Thank you. Um, I have a question about this handout.
So, I see on the on the bottom that it's like New Jersey Historic Trust because it's part of the money that they gave us to do this. So, and and I'm guessing that when we have our next meeting of the subcommittee next Friday, you're going
to share this with that with Marin. So, so this would be something that would be in the river center like in a kiosk or something. So, so, so we're going to pay for this to be given to the river center
and and maybe a way for them to reprint it when they run out. >> Yeah, I think it would ideally end up on the HPC's website, just the two pages that this composed this brochure. um anyone could
imagine the river center would be pretty motivated. >> Okay. So to get started with this whole process and introducing the guidelines as part of your contract, would we get like a hundred of these or I mean how would that work? >> Um
>> get this out there. >> Some towns ask for these brochures and they build them in. I I don't think I have that for Red Bank. And I I really made this because I sense the river center was
um maybe not understanding the different like lanes a storefront could fall into and I wanted to just clear >> I think this would be helpful for them. You know, I like the fact that it repeats the link,
>> but I just wonder how we get it into their hands to use. I mean, would that be >> We could send them a PDF and they'll print it themselves. They have >> Okay. You know, and then we'll share this with them. Yeah. A week from Friday.
>> Yeah. And I I can give them like a holder for it. Um, Kate May runs a program where the holder that the brochures all sit in. >> Okay. >> Once they're depleted, literally say to email the HPC office there and they distribute the copies because they're like,
>> "Okay, but we're going to do it different. We're going to just Yeah, we're going to just get them up and >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um so pages 56 to 58 here which spreads on the screen are in detail um the
different treatments for storefront. Uh the majority of stuff you'll see again is the rehabilitation one but there are cases where people are going to be restoring or or dealing with a very intact historic storefront and that's a different situation. And then there's
other cases where it's not a historic building and um people can do something a little different, not not as different as the inappropriate examples I I have there, but um they they they have a little more leeway and we're just looking for general references and
compatibility in in those proposals. Also um in this section and in the brochure is a section on signage. So it's um first thing is identifying what type of sign you're proposing. There should be some type of dimension to the
letters. It shouldn't just be a sheet of metal or more plastic that you printed directly on um or or vinyl wrapped or whatever. like there there should be some some solidity to the sign in the historic district on any type of building. Um heights are provided there.
I'm still kind of in the process of crossch checking this to make sure we're not running a foul of your zoning or anything because we don't want to create more confusion there. And um then there's also light temperatures in a diagram um that people should most of
the time be trending toward the warmer end of of colored temperature versus like the super cool blue light that you know is is not the most pleasant thing to see at night especially in the historic district.
Any questions on signs before I move on? by the way. I mean, that's a big chunk of Red Bank. Okay. Following section is um all site and streetscape. Uh a lot of these are more in the category of like recommendations
versus guidelines because you may not strictly speaking have perview over them. So, this is stuff if a homeowner or business owner is curious like appropriate walkway between sidewalk and their porch like where to go for that type of stuff. Page 67 is
um section on accessibility about um doors, adding lifts, ramps. There's a lot of storefronts in this town that have steps. So this is the section to to look at for dealing with that sensitively.
Mechanical and utility equipment um include solar technology, solar panels, but guess given local ordinances and stuff that's category of just recommendations and not not guidelines. Ideally, they should not be on the front gable of a house facing Washington
Street, but that's only a recommendation. Page 71 is the demolition. These are just the seven considerations from your ordinance pasted right there. And then we are on to the addition
section which starts on page 73. This is for both of the historic districts. We applying secretary of the interior standards number nine especially and also 10. And the um addition section includes a
few pages just priming people for site placement, the basics, height, massing, proportion, scale, architectural features, and then on set page 76, you get into actual guidelines for
three different broad categories of additions. You may see side and rear yard editions, so lateral expansions of a house, rooftop additions, that's on page 77. And carriage house and accessory
structures is on page 78. And guidelines for each of those if it's in addition to a contributing building or a non-contributing building. And then also diagram of a very appropriate example of that type of addition and a very
inappropriate and destructive type of that addition that we would really like to not see in Redbank. Any questions on additions? No. The last section here is their instruction. So this is for both
districts again and this is divided up into the different uh criteria that you can use to approach a um a new construction project. I will um reumber the
guidelines here so they run continuously. So the guidelines for site placement start at one and then when you get to height and massing that should pick up at eight not one again. So you can always site what guideline you're looking at and people >> So so you're talking about on 81 you
would start with 8 9 10 11. >> Yes. you'll be able to say I'm looking at new construction guideline nine and there's only one example that because right now I have three different or four different number ones which could get a little confusing.
>> Okay. >> Um so site placement is um a factor, height, mass and proportion and scale architectural features and lastly materials. The examples given in new
construction are purposely only inappropriate examples. Um I think people should have some flexibility and design thought in construction. So we didn't include appropriate because we don't want that to become like a copy and paste
situation in the future where people should should think about it and and Any questions on on new construction examples in Breadbank? Um, in the districts I tried to include
the good and and the middle ground for for new construction there. Moving on to the appendicy, uh, that starts on page 84. There's an enlargement of the Broad Street Historic District and also the
Washington Street Historic District. And if you see, I'm not sure if I'm going to keep this in the final. I'll talk to the committee about this, but if you see a lot number with a highlight on it, like a yellow circle around it somewhat faintly, that means that that building
has already been surveyed, you know. So, not not part of the second part of your >> No, I would not >> you would not do that. >> Definitely not be reserveying those. Um I think we'll talk about the next meeting
uh potentially surveying the balance of the contributing buildings within that historic district. Make that sense. >> Yeah. So, it's just for example, we're just talking about on Mammoth Street,
right? Looks like maybe it's the old town hall, >> right? >> The diner. >> Townhouse. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> The diner next to it >> and the diner, right? Okay. >> And then lot 15, which might have two
structures on it. >> Uh, could be the old Elf Lodge. I don't know. >> But this is all for a later discussion. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> This is kind of just illustrative for um I was actually kind of surprised with how many surveys and paperwork has been
done on Breadbank, how little there was in the two historic districts. I might have missed one or two, so I'll double check this. Uh Washington Street has a few more surveys, but you can still see there are groupings of houses that you
wouldn't definitively know right now. So, where where was it hard to find these surveys? >> And and they are where I mean, >> they're with these incredibly responsive people at the county that will literally
get back to you in five minutes when you email them. >> Okay. >> But we can we can take these all their public information and you can put them anywhere on your website. That's what a lot of towns do. >> Yeah. I I that's what I mean. You you know where I'm going with this. Yeah. that if somebody has one of these
properties and they want to access that, this is how they do it. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, yeah, I'm thinking about the November meeting, you know, just Okay. >> Yeah. And eventually, like any surveys I do, like today will be incorporated into
the state's GIS system. So, they all end up on this giant repository that they keep. >> The Lucy one. >> The Lucy one. Yep. And I think these surveys are on there that I have noted in yellow
are already you could find Lucy, but I wouldn't expect any homeowners to just know that that exists. Uh, okay. The next two are window replacement. I'll verify if PAL has a replacement
sash. I do think they they should have something, but it should not be blank. And then the glossery is a few pages pictures of as many examples as I could could include there. And then the last page is a bunch of hyperl
resources um federal, state, county, local >> and um books for people that feel like reading even more once they've gotten to this part of the design guidelines. And there are a few goods there on paint colors
for all artists curious about appropriate Victorian paint. And that rounds out the design guidelines >> pages for autographs. >> Okay. >> So Marjorie I think has maybe a draft
soft cover if you just want to show everybody else that that's how >> the final would be bound. >> Listen. That's what um is printed and available directly from Amazon. One to 100 copies comes in like that got
delivered to margin in like 36 hours. >> Yeah, just to now >> any general comments or questions to the guidelines stuff for me to work on towards September. I just want to say that um I've been very pleased with the
process so far and um I look forward to using this as Christmas gifts. >> I believe you say that. >> Stephen, I want to say hell of a job. >> Yeah, >> thank you.
>> Uh very thorough. Um, you know, I told you what my concerns were with respect to the replacement m materials, and I I actually think on a couple of those pages in here, um, the the restoration or renovation, I think it's more of a
restoration that, uh, was done on Wallace Street, uh, a couple houses in on the right. Um the greenhouse, you've actually got it pictures of it. Um even in the glossery, those windows on that light greenhouse at the bottom. I think
I don't think that's wood um that she put on that house. I think it's a replacement type of material, which is just an example of it looks exactly like wood. I think there is still wood on it, but I don't think I I'm not 100% sure. But Marjorie, may maybe you would know
it if if you know, Cindy. >> Um >> but it's just an example. I do not know. >> I do not know. >> I agree with you. I I agree with you. >> I don't think that that that is there is wood on there around the windows and the trim and things like that, but I don't
think the body of that house is wood. I think it's a replacement material. >> Um and and it looks lovely. Um but anyway, um thorough job. Excellent. I mean, I'm I'm really impressed with it. I can tell uh it's just really really good. But um that's my only concern was what we discussed.
>> Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you uh as well, Stephen, and and to the whole uh committee that that worked on this. It's really excellent. Above and beyond what I was expecting. It's really great.
>> Yeah. >> And anyone on Zoom that public wise that maybe has a comment or question? >> No public. >> Okay. Excellent. >> And and Stephen, I echo all the comments made so far. I
>> too. So, frankly, you know, I see day in day out when I receive a draft too from somebody, it isn't almost a final product. This the quality of it is it's almost the final product. So, it very well done.
Thank you. And I I have your two pages of of comments still and I'll I'll work to make more progress. Thank you for that. If anyone does have like really specific comments that you think of over the coming days, feel free to send those to Sean and she'll get them to me.
>> Part of the agenda question. Where does is this online either in our agenda the agenda for folks publicly? Okay. Yep. >> I think that's it. >> Have one more item.
>> We have one more item on the agenda. >> If you're walking to the train station, I'll walk down that way with you. You want company? >> The item is new business HPC professional development opportunity. >> Um, okay. So, Karen Karen left, so I'm
gonna just do this. And um it's just a way if you want to I I don't think we're interested in getting college credits or graduate credits. >> Oh, maybe Betsy. Yeah. So, there is um
an announcement in the Mid-Atlantic Regional Center for Humanities. Uh registration is now open that includes uh a 10-week course with two college credits, introduction to historic preservation,
um and uh BAS basic training for historic preservation commissions and that's six weeks, 1.2 credits and the five pillars of preventive
conservation. And that's five weeks with one credit. So, so Betsy, you could go online. They're they tend to be from 6:00 to 8:30, so they shouldn't they shouldn't interfere with your regular college. Um, and I would hope that if
there is a charge that she could submit that voucher and we would pay for her to take the courses if you're interested, but it could be cheaper than your college credit. I don't know. >> Um, would it be possible if you could
send this to me in an email, please? >> Um, I will try and forward it. I got it. just text Karen and Steve or I'll share I'll share them. Yeah. >> Oh, or yeah, you could or you could Yeah, text
her to send it to Betsy. But that would be great. And then we'll we'll include it in our report if she takes any of these courses. So, that's all I have. >> Okay. Very good.
>> Thank you. There being no public, I believe, um we can dispense with the public comments on non-aggenda items and uh have a motion for German if someone would like to give one. Anyone move for German?
>> I I'll move. >> I'll second that. >> All in favor? >> I >> I thank you everyone. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> I >> All right. Maybe I'll see