The Red Bank Historic Preservation Commission will hold a regular meeting on Wednesday, April 16th, 2025 at 7 p.m. at 90 Mountain Street, Redbank. Adequate notice of this meeting has been posted to Borrow Hall filed with Burough Clerk and provided to the
Asbury Park Press and the Two River Times. The commission has maintained a policy cut off hour of 8:30 for its hearings. We start with the pledge of allegiance. And now roll call present. Collins
[Music] present. I said it right. You did. Doug Miller absent. Anthonyo present. to everyone who's had a chance to review the minutes of the regular meeting that
was held and the special meeting that was held on uh that were held on March 19th. Um can I have a motion to approve? I'll make I'll make the motion. Can I second? Second. Thank you. All in favor?
I I Okay, it's passed. Go through report of the minor works committee. Um the minor works committee did not meet. Uh there were no applications submitted for minor works
river center. I'm the only thing we got Mar is going to be our represent who is the head of senator will be our representative on the um historic preservation site committee
design slashdesign guidelines slashdesign guidelines committee that's it okay historic site and design guidelines committee. Uh we did meet and we wanted
to confirm there were a list of properties that were added I guess to the 2009 master plan uh that never were adopted by ordinance. So we wanted to present those to have them drafted and
there's a timeline that goes along you know with that. And Sea, I don't know if you want to lay out that timeline for how we adopt those additional properties as historic sites by ordinance like we discussed. Oh, yes. Um so we will be
following the procedures as laid out in the ordinance for um designating um any historic site or new district which is pretty much um making a presentation before um this commission
and then um possibly making another presentation before the um planning board or we can send them a report. Um but before that we have to notice the um property owners of the historic
preservation meeting. Um so we have to notice that and then once we have the presentation you guys will vote. Um then we'll move forward to the planning board. Um the planning board would vote to
um recommend the designation of these sites um and to include it in the historic preservation ordinance. Then it will move forward to the um governing body who um adopts
resolutions. So um not resolutions but ordinances to amend the um existing historic preservation ordinance. So they'll be first and second reading. So we would just carry that same report to council and Christina can um you know
elaborate more at the council meeting on lie and and just so I know of that list these are um distinct from the county, state or federal register. Those are the ones that are included. They are
included. They are the ones that are listed on the county, state, and national registry, but are not listed within our local registry. So, they were mentioned in the design element, but
never uh and listed in the master plan. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's what that's what the right element. Just not in this historic properties database list. They're not all there. Okay. Okay. Do you do you have a I couldn't find that
list. said on Marjgery if you have those list of properties if we want to share that those addresses now or send those people did you which list the existing registry spreadsheet master plan one in the um
historic preservation element the one that includes these additional properties um I'll resend it I could send it okay no that's Oh, I I'll send it over.
Thank you. Um and we had some other discussions, but that so um the other piece of that meeting was talking about we had to adjust the proposal, but that will be
under old business. That's under old business. Yeah. So, we'll do that under old business. Yep. Moving to matters listed under old business annual report feedback. Oh, Christina, did were you able to mention
about the uh I did we didn't get any specific feedback. I mentioned just kind of bullet points at our last meeting. Uh also because I thought it was cool the idea about the ghost signs. Um but yeah, no no feedback. I'm sure the council will be waiting for uh what you come up with or anything fleshed out.
But we're on the right course. Would you agree? From from what I read, yeah. Um it was interesting to see I also highlighted for them that it was pretty much the same number um of applications that you saw as minor versus kind of regular works, noting that those minor
ones are streamlined through this, which is good for folks to remember. We are trying to make this as easy as possible for the homeowners, right? Um but yeah, I I thought that was a great report. Thank you. Okay. Design guideline and architectural
survey proposal update. Um I that should be shown up. Yes. So, um, in the process of signing our, um, grant agreement, um, it was kicked back from the historic trust that,
um, uh, Steven's proposal needed to include, um, a survey that is more intensive since that's what we stated in the, um, grant when in our grant submission that we would conduct an architectural intensive survey.
or an intensive architectural survey. Um, so I went back to Stephen to ask if he could include that language and based on the the budget that was set in the grant amount that was included um for the type of intensive work that is
required by the historic trust for the grant. um he has to whittle down the survey to only about 60 to 70 properties. And so that is what is included in your packet now um is the
revised um proposal which I kind of asked him to kind of give me two options was whether or not we should update the historic preservation element or do this intensive architectural survey. and based on his professional opinion um he
he said that it was best to move forward with the um architectural survey and then we'll do the historic update on the historic preservation element next year where I can budget for that. Um so that is what is in the budget. So now his
instead of doing just like a a windshield survey of all the his um historic sites throughout the burrow, now it's a more intensive um architectural survey. And he will be
working with um the historic um designation committee um to uh narrow down those 60 um sites. that's going to get the intensive survey done. Um, I
just have one comment on it and the the one conference that I went to, not this year, last year in Jersey City, one of the things that was mentioned several times was that you
should always have a narrative, the history of a place as opposed to just cherrypicking certain structures even if they don't exist. exist anymore. You know, they should
still be mentioned, but uh that the history, the story of a town is important. So to my mind, um, if I could do one thing to kind of sway our
interpretation of of these 60 to 70 elements, to me, it should include sites that are the story of the Eiseners in town, which are not on any of these
lists, you know, and and by that I mean uh the collective presence of Eisner in town. Um and and it could be a feature because if you recall the kind of um product that
Steven will give us um does kind of tell a story of of what he did in Cape May and Hoboken etc. It seems to me that this would be an opportunity since this these guidelines will probably last
for 10 years or we we don't know how long. Seems like a missed opportunity to have him present that story. And it would be and I the way I would envision it would be his headquarters on Broad Street. Even though it's it's something
now, the building still exists. Um, obviously the library which is so the one on Broad Street exists as a historic site. The library as I mentioned a couple of times is not listed and then the Eisner complex on uh Bridge Avenue that
includes, correct me here Anthony two buildings you know the Galleria and the one across. Yeah, there was across the street. There were other factory buildings over there. Basically took up both sides of Bridge Avenue. And then we talked about there were some houses on Wallace Street that I think when you
talk about the story is that they started out in a duplex two family house where they lived on one side and made the factory the other side and then they built their first factory basically was just a house that they converted the whole house into a factory. So they
really were this kind of rags to riches story and the uh was it Temple of Wonder. Yeah. Um you know the original building on Broad Street. Um so it's and the and the wises too, you know, their
contribution is kind of handinand right the wife. Yeah. His wife. So, um I don't know how we can I I think we have the ability to kind of if if we're all in agreement that the Eisner story is important and and we should maybe take
this opportunity uh or at least you know the the influence on the town as well. That's kind of you know some of the stuff that we discussed in our lectures at the library is you know this thread you know
of the fun. Yeah. Exactly. You know what was the driving force the economy and then how that affected who lived in the area or built certain structures at certain time periods where the factory would ra ramp up from a war or during a
war time and then after a war. So after World War I you kind of saw a little bit of a boom you know on the west side built up and that actually during World War I. So yeah, if if the minutes could reflect that aspect of it, I think that
would satisfy me so we don't forget when we're when we finally do get to work with Stephen that, you know, we have these if we're working on this limited list, you know, that we could get his his feedback on that, you know, and
I think that by and large that story wouldn't be as hard to research because I mean it he basically came of presence in the town just as the town was becoming a town, you know, and the factory starts in 1902, right before it
becomes a burrow, you know, and it's right in that time period when they do an expansion, 1907. So, it's the basically the birth of the town is built around the birth of the Eisner, you know, the factory. Yeah. And the Eisner history went all the way into
the 1970s. You know, we have Ro Eisner's estate up on the Tower Hill. Yeah. And a lot of the uh his drive McLaren Street, his mother owned Bertha Wise owned Oldfield Place.
A lot of these places were designated as affordable housing. So they they um built, you know, two family houses and and buildings so that um there would be affordable housing in Red. Yeah. afterwards too. So, so again, um since
the three of us are here and Marin will be joining us so that we can take that back when we start working with him, um as as a starting point and then look at the element and still do a walkabout
with him to see, you know, maybe which of the properties to focus on. Yeah, I I agree. I think it'd be great to focus on the Eiseners. Um, now that we understand that it'll be uh narrowed down to 60 or 70
buildings, if you look at the the designated historic district right now, there isn't a lot of significant architecture there. Unfortunately, a lot of the houses have been converted into two family homes or apartments or and
so I think it'd be a good idea to uh for him to focus on some of the buildings that are outside of the historic district that have a historical architectural significance. Broad Street, for example, um
um you know, several of Irving Place, uh River Road, uh there are a lot of big old Victorian river style houses that that exist outside of the historic district. So, if
he's only going to look at 60 or 70 houses on Wall Street and and Washington Street, not going to get a a lot of uh a lot of uh diversity or history for that time period. So I
think even though most of the buildings in that area were were built, you know, prior to 1900, there were a lot of other buildings in Redbank that were also built around that same time period that should be considered in the survey.
Okay. Okay. Right. Let's move on then if there's nothing else uh to the nine war avenue update. Um I will just give a brief um
introduction. Um so this is nine warf. They came before this commission um I believe it was last year or am I Yes, it was last year because it's just March. It's just April. Um so they came before us last year.
Um the commission made a few recommendations based on um masking the height of the new penthouse um story and uh because they were going from a three-story building to a
four-story building. This is the former check-in gallery I believe across from Red Rock. um they submitted an application in addition to submitting an application to the commission they also had to go before the zoning board for
variance relief. Um and as a part of that um when an application goes before either the planning board or the zoning board, the historic commission becomes an advis um their recommendations are
advisory. So the applicant does not have to um take the recommendation but it's strongly um recommended that they do. Um and so this is uh the application was approved by the
um the zoning board and now they are in the um resolution compliance phase of the um permitting process. the zoning permitting process and now the I've asked the applicant to just come back
before um the commission to kind of state how they've um understood what the commission recommended and how they incorporated that into the design. There is no formal action that is just needed. they are
just um being good neighbors and returning to the commission to kind of tell us what they've done. If you could just grab the mic that's by Christina just to speak into it. Thank you. Thank you. Uh my name is Dan Zento. I'm
with Architects and uh you can move with it. You don't have to. Yeah. There you go. Excuse me. Like Sean has said, we had come before the Historic Preservation Commission um last year. I'm not exactly sure of the end of last year.
Um I'll show you the design that we had originally presented at that time and we did receive uh a lot of comments and concerns about the design that we presented. So this was Oh.
It was a much more modern addition that we're proposing on the fourth floor. Uh the idea was to kind of justapose the existing historical building and have a clear delineation between the existing and the new addition. Um, it was a blue
fiber cement panel with uh aluminum reveals. So, it was a very modern design and we could tell that that wasn't really pleasing the board in any way. So, we were asked to take a look at it to to revise it to make it more compatible with the existing building
and also to to minimize the uh the top floor in a way that it wasn't overpowering the elevation of the street. Um so we were asked to kind of step that top floor back uh look at the materials to use materials that were compatible with the existing and uh
again try to minimize the top floor. So we took a look at the the whole elevation of that building uh in a way that we could provide that addition that was more harmonious with the
existing facade. So our proposal that we presented to the uh the zoning board was to uh hide that upper floor a mansark type roof and that would achieve uh both tying it into the existing building
still having a clear delineation between the existing and the addition but making something that's more compatible as a whole and also would step the the top of the building back the three feet that was requested. Um
the materials that we were uh proposing are it's a it's a gasol shingle on the mansur. The trim would all be fiber cement trim. Um but to look in a way that is you know just a
longer board on the side elevations but really I think the bulk of the concern was on on the front elevation. So everything on the existing is is being maintained. Uh new paint and in historical colors and I'll show you which colors those are. Replacement
windows um historic at these are Pella historic Pella Reserve windows um in a historic fashion. And then we weren't um proposing to do any changes to the existing storefront. The only thing that we'd be doing is replacing the glass
where it was broken, painting, and repairing any of the rotted wood. We're proposing to also remove the exact just to open that wall up. This here is a 3D perspective of the proposed addition and the uh renovation
of the existing building. So you'll keep to the original front door. Uh the original front door stays. Uh we will have to replace the glass the transom because right now there's a air conditioner that goes through it. So, we're taking that out. We clean it all
up and make it nice. Um, we're replacing this door, but with a similar door, and then the glazing will all stay. The mullions will stay. And then these upper windows will be replaced. They're in bad shape. And then this is the the new addition. All
the cornets work will be maintained, repaired, repainted. The colors that we've chosen are all from the Benjamin Moore historical collection. So, it's a a black actually gray is the the trim
and Danville tan is the body color. The top floor I know the front elevation is sloped back. It's got the Manser style um gables. The sides are they it looks like they're set back a bit, but
they're vertical. Is that correct? They're only set back is the width of the the masonry wall below. So we were we were uh stepped on the inside face of the wall. So there will be like a little couple inch step back on a few inches.
Okay. But otherwise vertical. Yes. Okay. Oh it it this looks like it could have been originally built that way unlike the original design which looks like a box was dropped on top of it. So, this is a huge
improvement from my perspective. That's much better. Yeah, from my perspective, too, it's a lot better than your first um shot at it. You know, I I'm on the zoning board as well, so last time I saw you when I was at the zoning board. Um, but I did have concerns about the windows. The colors look good. It's
historic black, I guess, the frames in the windows, which historically you saw in tutor houses or you saw in industrial warehouses or more commercial spaces. So it's not really historical in terms of black frame windows. That's more of a contemporary look in my opinion. I
agree. So um to me I had made that comment at the zoning board. I think you recall um didn't seem to carry much weight with the zoning board. But um that's where we had decided this was the case that I was telling you about where we need to set down what we specifically want before it goes to zoning. It looks
100 times better than than what you had sub submitted. So I'm happy about that. I'm happy about the historic colors, but it'll just be me who when I look at it sees a contemporary window uh on the on the facade. I can't agree with you more. The black windows, you know, I see it up
and down Broad Street now. Yeah. You know, and it's I agree with you. Then there'll be a time 10, 15 years from now where that won't be in fashion and it'll date the building that Yeah. is dated to, you know, like an 80s modern
building, you know, and and we see a lot of the black around town when you have these new construction and the home's usually white and Wallace. I think that's a street is now white. It's white with black windows. And now we've got the kind of siding that goes that kind
of farmhouse siding up top adjacent to the man, you know, on the Mansford roof, you know, on the side is kind of like that modern siding. So to me, if this was white, we would all be like, "Oh my god." Um because it would really kind of be like this bastardization of a historic building. Originally, it
wasn't. It does look better. I don't want you to think it does. The last Do we know Do we have a picture of this building when it was originally built? I've got it up on my on the computer. There's a side. I have one like dig for it. Um the only other thing
I would have you consider is when you do replace if you are going to replace the windows on the lower level to make them more historic. I mean the transom is important historically feature. It's a is a historic feature. Transoms. Oh yes. Yeah. If you if you're going to tear down transom, just please I would ask that you keep that in mind. Um to
replace that with some type of transom over the door now, right? So I mean to kind of keep that historical look instead of a modern. Yeah, that we are replacing that because it's not in, you know, it has a hole cut in it for an air conditioner.
So yeah, it's kind of like a plexiglass window and an air conditioner. So we're taking that out. We're going to put a new window in there. And then otherwise we're not gonna touch the framing of the storefront. Yeah. I mean other than that I appreciate the effort. You know for me it was just the windows that I had I issue with. Yeah.
Yeah. But but it's it's you know the original you can work at the top is that's like Yeah. He's got a picture and that is original below your that's been there since the getgo. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to change that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, um, how do how do we let them know that we're we're smiling? Um, nothing. This was just a inform. This was really just an update.
Just an all right. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you very although I think it is a good learning for us, you know, experience-wise for the next application that goes to zoning too. Well, another example where we need
very objective specific standards. Well, we had this conversation briefly about the the red brick, you know, and it's like that warehouse thing. It's like, yeah, it's, you know, for the
factories, just like the black, you know, windows. It's more of a factory thing. that's not necessarily the distinct uh architecture that we want replicated all over town. Okay. Thank you. Uh now
um so Mammoth Folk Club is uh requesting again another letter of support for their um New Jersey Historic Trust application. Last year again they came before us. I think it was around the same time they these guys presented too. Um
um they are submitting to the historic trust for funding um the historic trust grant for funding to raise their building due to um uh storm water not storm water but flooding issues um and
to kind of preserve the building. So, they're asking for funding for that. And um a part of their letter I mean a part of their grant submission is for the commission to um provide them with a letter of support. We've done it in um
the last two years. Um but unfortunately last year they didn't get the grant um and the year before I believe. So um they're trying again and and I from what I'm hearing this is a good chance that they'll actually get the grant this year. But no matter what, I feel like
the commission will provide you with a letter of support anyway, every time you need to to submit. But um so the that's why they're here. They're requesting a letter of support from the commission. Um what I'll do is
just dust off the letter from last year. Um and what we did was that we um voted on the application. Not the application, but we voted on the letter of support. So I'll need a motion. and a second and then I'll do a roll call and that is
what um there's no signature required but it will just be of all the board members who voted and I I have a copy of what we sent if anybody would like to see what we did last year. Yeah. Um, so, so it didn't require a signature, but it
did require, um, we showed at the end the actual vote, who voted yes and who voted no. Um, and I would I would think that you don't have to recuse yourself from
voting. Oh, I mean, that that would be my impression, Shauna, because it's just it's the vote. It's not a signature. Or do you want to put an asterisk by his name? No, I would just put abstain. I'd have him under abstain and just I can put um a member of the board vote club
underneath it like a little That's fine. Yeah. Okay. So I I would make the motion to to draft a new letter similar to the one that we did last year. I and vote
Marjorie first. Okay. Lois Al Marini. Epstein. Epstein. Okay. Marjorie Cavalier. Yes. Liam Collins. Hi. Collins. Sorry. Um Paul Kagno. Yes. And Karen Schmelskov.
Yes. Getting it. Um Anthony Sero. Yes. Okay. Yep. All good. Thank you. I will email you a copy of the letter tomorrow morning. All right. We really appreciate all your help with this. Yeah. Last year, somebody had to drive down the train the next morning or something. So,
you have a little bit more time this year. We do. So, it's actually due for submission uh tomorrow next week. Thursday next week. Okay. But again, we do have to actually drop off a physical submission also submitting it online to you. Yeah. Thank you.
Hopefully we'll get it this year. Okay. And can can I ask that when you I'm sure you're going to have fundraisers to to make of your part of it because the grants won't cover the lifting of the building and the redoing of That's a great question. So, we do plan to do
that. Um, it's I don't know if you want me to use something. Yeah, if you Yeah, sure. Who knows? It may even make the paper. Say your name. There's nothing that you need to do. Just hold it up. Just say your name so I can have it on record. Uh, Brian Bugby. I'm the vice condor of
one folk club. So, we are currently applying for a matching grant from the state historic trust for $750,000. Um our current proposal is that the project in total will cost around 2.25 give or take a little bit.
Um so the remaining will be given up by um the capital reserve um fundraising within the club and then fundraising in general. So yeah, similar to what you're asking, we will be having over the next
year or so um various fundraisers um with individuals and even potentially corporate support uh where possible. So So if you I I'd like the invitation to whatever you're doing because I think it's a it's a beautiful
building. After we talked about it here, I actually went over one Sunday to, you know, lift the boards and look what's underneath there and all that stuff. Well, and so that's the other interesting thing too is that um so this May 4th and 5th we'll be participating
in the we can old mammoth again. So if you want to come then you're all invited uh or anytime just let us know and we'll be happy to give you guys a tour of the building and answer you know any detailed questions about the building. But essentially the building is two
pieces. One half built in was completed around 1895. The other completed about 1930. And basically the pilings that it sits on are the original ones from when they were both sections were built. So over the last, you know, 100 plus years,
those have deteriorated substantially. And that's really what we're aiming to do is move the building, take out the old pilings, put in new ones, um that'll last at least another 100 years or more and then put the building back on at the current location and rock height. Now, would you would be raising the building
when you do that or Yes. lifting it over? That's a question. So, we are aiming to raise about 21 inches. Um and that was actually 21. Yeah. It's a weird number, right? Inches. That's it. That's it. So, and the reason for that, um,
we're kind of walking this fine balancing act between the New Jersey D and the New Jersey Historical Commission. Um, where the New Jersey Historical Commission will not approve the matching grant if we go above that height. Um, because it's their belief
that it would substantially change the appearance of the building. Um even though the D has now come out with a um it was like October a new standard. Yeah. Yes. Where they increase the height from the FEMA height to I think
an additional almost 5T um because they believe that over the next 20 years the sea level will rise about another two feet. So 21 in. Yeah. This is the same issue that uh Locust Landing um is running into. So they wanted to get the burrow
support um before the D requires them to raise them at the new standard. So right now there's the 21 in that Locust Landing wants to stick at before the GP kicks in the new standard that makes
them go higher which is more costly. So I it's the same boat everyone is kind of in that's in a flood plane. Well, and that's the other interesting thing with regard to the historic perspective of the building is that the D previously would not look at if it
was, you know, taking into consideration the historical value of the building. So instead, they were just looking purely at this is our female, you have to go to that. Um versus now they're looking at the I think it's the National Park Service um their view on historic
buildings and what type of height do you have to raise it in this type of environment? within a flood plane. So, we're hoping that they will permit us to go just 21 in. Um, and that essentially was the hold of last year for not getting the
grant. Um, so the D was not in agreement at the time. So, we think we're in a pretty good position with the D that within the next few months they'll grant us um the approval and then hopefully as well the
um historic trust will provide us infection grant too. It's a jewel. Yeah. No, it's it's a great facility. Um, and that's the incredible thing too is with all of our photos that we have over the last almost 150 years of that area, that's
more or less stayed the same while the whole surrounding area has changed over time. So, it's, you know, almost like a little time capsule, right? Cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
Have a good evening. Yeah. Oh, who do I send it to? The email. Do I send it to the same person I sent it to last year? Want to make sure that letter right now. Sorry, our No, it's okay. application for the design guidelines is under boat
club. So when I search boat club Andrew's Yeah, Andrew's angle. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, you can send it to his email. Okay. All right. So, I'll just send that now. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a great evening. Yep. So, we're now lost some new
business. Uh, yes. Now, uh, see my legacy. Oh, okay. Um so um during a recent um department um head meeting, we had uh the um
community engagement coordinator um told us about a new um program that the bureau was signing up for um for that helps with fundraising. And a part of that they're this company um see my
legacy um they have a service of um providing QR code plaques um for historic sites or any type of like um
inmemoriam of this person. Um and so it's a when this was brought up, it hit me with the um historic um sites that we have throughout the burrow. Um next year potentially I can put it in a
budget to do um because they have like a certain package amount. So they have like for 20 plaques um it's a certain amount of money or for 50 or for 100 or whatever. Um, so I that was like in consideration. So the QR code would lead
to like a website that will have like the history about the build um history about the building or um something significant. Also, um, speaking of the ghost signs, um, we can link that to a picture of what the ghost a ghost sign
was that was there on the site. So we could do a lot with that. Um, so I just wanted to bring that to the commission's um attention that the burrow is signing up for this see my legacy
um uh service and in um a part of their service that we'll just have to add on to um is to do these um historic plaques that are just I mean the way how it looks it could just be like you know a small little QR code or just like a
name plate like this, but the it will include like the QR code or it could be something as big as like this paper with a QR code and it'll say like scan here for um but they have different designs. Um but once we get closer to that but I
just wanted to make you guys aware that there is an option since we have been talking about that for a while to have um like plaques throughout towns. Can you can you ask Michael? Michael Michelle if Michelle Yeah. If Oh,
Michelle. Sorry. Someone like Yeah. Yeah. No. Um if we have a site that is a private residence. I mean, I think we have to ask we have to ask the owner if it's
okay to put Yeah, we would have to ask them. So what I mean potential petition we can do is probably to say that you know it's free to the property owner um to put it on um to put it on their
their property. Um we could always say that um that they don't have to pay they just have to allow it there. Yeah. I I I think it's, you know, it has to be Well, I think we we've got a lot a ways to go, but you don't want somebody going up to
your front door and to scan a code. So, um we almost have to But it could be on a fence. Yeah. If Yeah. If a fence exists or like the white house. Yeah. Something where it's not you don't have to go on their
property. But again, that's us talking to the property owner. So, I think it's just picking Do they even want, right? Yeah. Picking and choosing the properties that we're interested. I would think like a lot of the downtown like I would say downtown. Um
eventually. Yeah. To even put it on the little the clock. Um Well, it should be. Yeah. Just to talk about the history of Broad Street. Yeah. Um but yeah, I think that would that would be good. And I don't think that clock is on any element
either. Is on a what? It's on our historic element. Oh, no. I No, you're right. I don't think it is. You know, and I I was I happened to be on Broad Street when it was hit. Yeah. And I said, "Please don't. You're not going to take it away forever."
Yes. Yes. We were just across the street when some truck banged into it. So, and I said, "You're not taking it away for good." No. So, I mean, we really have to protect it because it's in so many of those photos of of Broad Street. Yes.
Identifying. Yeah. So, as we get closer to that, clearly I think one of the things we talked about in the pre-aggenda meeting was uh the package that maybe started with 20 or something. You know, the ballpark was a couple of
thousand maybe. Yeah, it it is. And then also I can we I can always search for grants to to cover this. I'm pretty sure those grants. I was going to say for the ones that are on like in a public area, if people were so like inclined, would
you be willing to let people sponsor them? And then on the website, it also said like this unsponsor also like um that's also a part of the intended my legacy because that's like for fundraising for um you know, burrow initiatives that they want
donations for. Um, but we can also do um an initiative for these plaques and maybe we'll get like donations from people, the residents or interested parties throughout the burrow, do our own little fundraiser for it. Um, and
that way it could flow right into that. I mean, it doesn't sound like the cost is that great, but it's almost like a good a nice community activity and sort of um building around those sites. And I can talk to Adriana about that like creating that. It would just be for the
historic commission. Um we'll do our own little campaign for the historic plaque. So maybe we'll just do the match money like the half and half. Um I got to tour the Burlington County Prison Museum the
other day. We're doing that conference on June 4th and 5th if anyone's going to that. But it's all about this interaction and this all immersiveness and there's QR codes everywhere and you learn the history about the inmates and
there's interactive sounds and there's there's all this stuff and so they were talking again what Sean is talking about there's a lot of grants that are out there in this immersive uh experience for people. So I think it's a great idea. Uh just a random
technical point, Shauna. Do they host the website? I have to I I'll talk to some more about it. Um if we if it has to pull from maybe our website because I know like EC the environmental commission, they have their own website.
So maybe we need to get our own website. Yeah, I think they have like a like a Google. It's like site or something. Okay. Yeah. So maybe we can do that and then it could pull from that. So, like for example, um for the story dedication
pack, I'm on their website now. Um for the 25 pack, it's $1,975 or a 50 pack is $3,700. So, if we can fund raise for it, do our own campaign on it, and then, you know, do it that way. That could help.
The River Center may even um to some money since they're not paying for the bricks now. Well, River Center's money is the burrow's money. Well, no. It's half and half, but No. No. But I mean, they do have money, you know.
So, that's also another another way of handling it, I think. So, okay. Um I I have a piece of new business that's not on the agenda. Um, so people see me while they're in
town all the time because I mean, not only is exercise, but I feel like I am keeping tabs on on the town in a way. And um, this house on Wallace Street that has its porch propped up for over a
year and a half now. Um, and and the rest of the house looks very almost done, you know, and they just redid the brick work. 26 walls I'm talking about. And they still have it the porch propped up. It is not. Is it another one of those houses that's not on the element
list, but apparently they did come before the commission. This is what I understand. I have no way of the former commission saved from the developer who was going to tear it down. Yeah, it was going to be teared down. So, but um so just talking to someone, I
don't have to mention who told me that the person actually had the replacements for the porch and they came to the commission and they were told that they couldn't use those supports, the
materials that they had purchased and that's why it's still propped up and they they were pretty costly the columns that they wanted to replace it to look like they did in the past because of the nature of the materials. I don't know. So, I guess my new business is can we
find out when they came to the commission and who came to the commission and here right now and then write to that property owner and say come come back to us come back to us and and talk to us about what what you want
to do there because 26 Wallace 26 Wallace it's the greenhouse you know and they just redid the brick work in the front on the steps, but it's, you know, it's just looked almost done for forever.
Remember that he called them today? Actually, I was um Yeah, because I'm in the office, but I can I I passed on the word to the person that I was talking to to say, you know, if you see the person, tell them to come back. You're doing
good work. Came here in 2022 and 2024, I believe. Does it say what the building materials were that um 2024? So May 2024 he came here. It says removing falling brick steps, rebuilding with a
new green gray brick. Replace something walls with brick blue stone. Oh, this was for the um replace rebuild chimney. Repair wood columns. That's it.
hand rail, replace ashvault roof with new roof. Um, he plans to replace the chimney, repair columns and handrail. So, he had it as repair.
My understanding, it just it just seemed that he was going to repair it. I don't know because they might have wanted a replacement and the to get an exact Sorry, I mean, it's total assumption. So, yeah. No, that's why. But my assumption would be that they wanted a
replacement and the replacement's too much. So, he was trying to just I'm confused. Is this I thought you said this isn't I I know the house. Oh, I thought you said it's not designated. It's It's in the Washington Street district. So, it's because it's in the
district. Yeah. Okay. But it's not on our element. No, but it's it's but it's covered by the district. It's covered by the Washington Street. Oh, now I understand. because there's a house right next to it that's had a lot of work done and we never saw the applicant for that and we
never saw an application and my only criticism of the work that was done is when you take these two green houses and look at them separately they're the colors are acceptable these two green should not be next to each other just a personal because it skips so like for
some reason there's a house that's in the district it skips that house and then another house is there it's really weird how house oh designate, right? It's not in the district. Yeah. So, it skipped the house. So, it's like two houses that are and then it skipped it. I I don't know,
but I don't know how that designate. So, that's why it didn't come before us because it the way they did this element list, it was not included. So, whether somebody got some money under I don't know why, you know, but Mike needs to be on called you. So, hopefully this called
me. I don't know why he called. Let me see. Let me check. I'm hoping I had a if there's anything we could do to So what while I speak to him, what would you like me to say to him? I'm back. Yeah. What's this? Trying to
find out what the story is. He says, "I have a question for you regarding fencing and actual and an actual brick wall that I'd like to build." So you want He's already building it. Okay. So I when I speak to Namar 26. What's the deal with the column? If
there is an issue with the column that we could resolve, kind of carve it out and resolve it on a minor work Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. basis. Good idea. A good idea. Yeah. So, would you like me to ask him to um hop on a a minor works
committee call? Well, that's good. That's good. You said before. Yeah. No, I'm just think that way he does have to wait a month. Yeah. Can I just be heard real quick? We should probably have him put an application in to see what he wants to do before we can determine if so what he can I mean I can ask him if he wants to revise his existing
approval. So I can just take from the the that old application from when he submitted 2024. Okay. Um and ask him if he wants to revise it or submit a new one. Not have the guy pay another. I mean it's $50, but have him pay another
one. And um as Marjorie is saying is that he's struggling with whatever. So if he wants to amend it um amend his application to whatever but we could we can grant him I mean ask him to come to the minor works committee. Yeah if
that's okay. Yep. Yeah. Sounds good. Okay. And I have one other new business. So uh Lou and I and Liam also have been going to these um planning board meetings about the the transit village.
And so at one of the meetings, somebody in the audience after I had identified myself as a member of the HPC because I'm concerned about the historic triangle at the train station originally, I don't know if people read the proposal in it, it says uh
maintained in its current place or could be moved. So I'm totally against that. But I had identified myself as as a member. So that's why this member of the public approached me um who lives in the
historic district and and said um I'd be interested in attending some kind of just Q&A about you know the design guidelines or what we do you know the the process
or whatever. So, um, I wondered if we could put on the agenda kind of to find a a time maybe at the library or at the senior center to just do that, to just sometime
this year have a Q&A with anybody from the public, whether they live in the historic district or not, just to to come and have an opportunity to speak with some of us. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the only thing I would say to that is we we can
they not come here? Um I just, you know, I was thinking that if we we did it when Stephen was on board, um it could be also a time period for feedback and and questions from the general public about
the D design guidelines. You know, I just thought that, you know, if we got a little bit, it could be at one of these meetings, but it seems like a different kind of more informal thing than than a a meeting
with an agenda, which we never know what will happen, what we need to put on, you know? So, it could be I don't know. I don't want to call it a party. It's not a party, but I I just wondered if we could have like a different kind of vibe with it. So, yeah. Well, there were
within Steven's engagement, there were at least a couple of public sessions already. I wouldn't want to like confuse what those are because I think that's momentum building and feedback just for his project. But maybe if you wanted to do a preface to that, like here is what
we are and what you'll see coming. That could be smart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I concur. I mean, not not necessarily a kickoff to what he's going to be doing in town, but, you know, it certainly
could be mentioned because a lot of people don't read the paper, don't follow a feed, you know, don't know necessarily what we're doing. So, if it would be promoted in a different kind of way, um, it could be mentioned at that as well as answering any questions about
the commission and such. How does that work as far as being a public meeting? Would there have to be minutes or anything or be um I think there just can't be a quorum of there cannot be a quorum. Okay. Have to be a representative couple
representatives. Okay. Yeah. So um if you want to do something at the library I know when I did my talk at the um library about the planning and zoning process. I don't know if they still do. Marjorie, you could probably tell me if they still do um like the afternoon like
sessions where people come in and give like a talk. So maybe you want to approach um what's her name? Marielle Mess about doing one of those things. Well, the they advertised it and everything. The acting director is
Candace. I think it's way you pronounce her name. Um but they do have that community room. I mean, Liam's been he's done a presentation there about the Mount Family. Um, we definitely could do
something there maybe um in September, you know, by that time, you know, stuff will already start happening with the design guidelines. We don't have to worry as much about somebody being on vacation or or anything. Um, so I could
try and get a D from the library. the library board meets next Thursday. Next Thursday. Um, so I could definitely put it out there. Um, what about bringing or kind of answering doing some Q&A, but maybe bringing some of like the early
documentation you have for prioritizing those properties like that Stephen's going to look at. Like if you're getting cool narratives about properties, maybe people would be interested in that part of it. Would you like me to see you on the letter? Yeah. So, um I will uh take
it upon myself to see if we can get a time like the end of September. By that time, people involved in school openings and stuff should have settled down a little bit and you know, we should be into the process a little bit hopefully by then and see if we can get a date so
we can start talking about it. I will say for as I recall September gets really loaded with events in town. That's my that would be my only concern. I I see what you mean, but like everyone does that. People just get are settling in. So, it's like every week has like
three events. Okay. So, just like, you know, see what's out there. Well, um I'll Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. You finished? I had to matter discuss. Yeah, sure. Um so, um this will be something for new business. I just wanted to put it on everyone's radar to see if maybe it's
something we can prepare for as a group, as a board. Um so um as you know I am on a zoning board so there has been um an application that has been on the agenda and then removed from the agenda and now talks of it coming back on the agenda which is a demolition of uh some homes
on Riverside Avenue across from the atrium. Are you all familiar with the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with the demolition of some of those homes which I don't know if they're on the on the list some of them are certainly contributing. I'm staring at them right now in front of me. They have mass roots. They're about the only left. There's like four or five
homes there that are under threat of being demolitioned that are going to come before the zoning board. They're going to skip huts. Doesn't mean we can't have a voice commission to object if you do object to it. Oh, I probably would. Yeah. Um but I would like to be
proactive on it. So, uh, Shauna, um, or Christina, if you hear that it's going to be on the zoning agenda in advance, maybe we can tell the historic and maybe we can prepare a letter, uh, in support of not tearing down these buildings to put up yet another uh, high-rise
building with 40 or 50 condos or 40 or 50 apartments because we know the importance of those houses to me. Anyway, if as you come over the bridge middle town, you make the left, you got the Ravino. Now you're going to have 300 apartments on where the older housing is going to be.
You kind of come into you kind of come into Red Bank and all of a sudden the first really piece of character to me anyway are these old historic homes with the porches and the mansry roofs and all these things. Now we're getting into like real Red Bank, right? Then you get into Broad Street and Wallace and the rest of the district. To me, it's an
invitation to Red Bank that's under threat. Agree. So, um I'd like to get it on our radar and to see if it's something that we could stay on top of and propose a letter um supporting or not supporting the structures which is quite frankly a big
part of our right. Yeah. So, just wanted to address that and maybe we can keep it on the front burner. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that at all because it is entry into river bank and it does
represent the old kind of Victorian river town which if it is replaced by another you know indescript brick building what you know what are we turning into um and I had mentioned maybe to Christina about the architect
who made the bluffs over on front street and the library Those were uh original big old river houses there and he uh adapted those and he he renovated those. So those those houses along the the
street there are the original, you know, 19th century homes. The ones he built behind there were designed uh to kind of the architecture of the the houses on the front, but those original houses were were were the original houses. So I
I mentioned to Christina said, "Oh, maybe we can meet with the developer of these five houses." Again, this is the the way that they've been doing it in Red Bank. They buy all these adjacent buildings, sit on them for decades or years, and let them dilapidate and then
say, "Oh, they're they're beyond repair. We we've got to tear them down." And by the time, you know, they do that, the the community is tired of looking at these old broken down houses, and people just push it through. But it doesn't have to be that way. I mean, the architect uh and the developer is still
around who did the bluffs. So, I don't know why they don't engage the council should engage that that uh owner of the bluff and introduce him to the the owner of this development project and say why
not. Yeah. The only thing I the only thing I would say to that with my experience has been on these boards is that, you know, you give an out to demolish and it will be voted to demolish. You know, for me, um, I hear incessantly about these new buildings
when they're being passed, how it's going to satisfy affordable housing, how it's going to do this, how it's going to do that, how they're dilapidated, we got to tear them down. To me, this is what I would consider may not be affordable. The definition of what affordable is
somebody making $30,000 with five children or something. This is affordable rentals compared to what's going there 100%. They're putting two-bedroom, $3,500 apartments as compared to these
houses which some of them have been converted to three families or four families. Are they all residents or they were residents? They're residents in there. You know, they're they're 1450 onebedroom apartments. There's two-bedroom apartments. They're 1650 two two-bedroom apartments in there are 950
attic apartment. That's what's currently here. So, all I'm saying is I appreciate everything you're saying as a last resort, but to suggest that it's okay to knock them down because we have a developer who did it once before and it looks pretty cool. I would rather not go there only because my experience tells me that they will latch on to that and
say, "Well, let's knock him down because we've got this guy who's going to build up these newer stuff." Um, that's just me personally. Um, my pre down. I'm suggesting they reuse them. Oh, like incorporate them. Incorporate them. Use keep those five
houses and and renovate them. Yeah. And then maybe add additional houses with similar kind of architecture behind them like they did at the bluffs. You know, trying to reach 40 apartments. you know, you could probably make 25 apartments
or, you know, 30 apartments if you did it, you know, thoughtfully. Um, so yeah, no, I'm not suggesting they I'm say I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying preserve you use those houses the way they are. So, have there been any hearings on this yet? It's been it's been removed from
the at least twice, I think, or at least once. I know it's it was on and then taken off. I think it's been twice. Um so we have to just tread lightly um with this is only because we're it's not in our jurisdiction. Um and I understand the
passion behind it. Uh my only recommendation is that you guys just look out for the agendas um and and voice your opinion there. Um but because it's not in the jurisdiction
of so this would go to zoning before it goes to um let me is it is it the is it Malle is it 3749 Riverside feel like it is there's not too many
I think it's Mali I think as you go into Redbank and you pass Bureau and then there's it's south Beyond that, just beyond that, there's a row of Yeah. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. So, they right now, as of now, I can tell you to figure out themselves. Um they we we've been it's pretty frustrating because I've been trying to schedule them for the longest. um because the
time starts clicking triggering if we don't um get them on a schedule. Um then it's sometimes triggers an automatic approval. um if they aren't Oh yeah, there's games that can be played because sometimes you
have a year to block a demolition if the year goes as in like so for us in order the zoning board has 120 days to act when an application is deemed complete. Mhm. Um and so we have to constantly
approach the attorney to say, do you extend, as Kevin always says, extend the time in which the board has to act? And so if they consent to extending the time in which the board has to act, then that pushes back the clock for us. But it
always they we have the zoning board has 120 days to in order to act. So we have to keep chasing them down to ask when are you guys going to be? So if they delay as a tactic and they're the ones that are delaying, we won't grant them a
I mean it's it sounds like protect like the applicant or not protect the applicant, but no one ever wants to get an automatic approval. It's usually like a frowned upon in the land use world. No one actually goes after it
like that. Why I don't Could you explain to me the reasons for the delay? So I think it's one of the reasons I know was because the their professionals they couldn't get all their
professionals to agree on a time um on a date to appear before the board. The other was that the um the letter the review memo from the engineer had a lot of requests that they
had to go back to the drawing board to address which then delayed them even further because um it was just too complicated what our board engineer had said that they needed to do to clean up and tighten up. Um, so they wanted to go back and revise their
plans based on that. And now I think it's just them trying to figure out a timing when all their professionals is available. But we have sent them letters asking them to consent to the time and they have been consenting to the time. Um, but I'm just waiting to hear back on
when we can get them on the agenda. So you don't think they're gaming to get an automatic approval? You think that's truly just Yeah. back and forth that's going on? Yeah. Yeah. Knowing who the some of the professionals I think that's
on this. They're they're used statewide and everyone meets on the same dates. Unfortunately, there's but too few people in the land use profession that are really good at testifying um
and that certain people want to use and so they're in high demand. So, it's hard to get on on the everyone's schedule for needed. Yeah. And my last question is so I was going to say what you know is there a particular reason why any of these homes is there a particular reason why any of these homes we haven't
addressed as part of the element you know that we're going around looking at it. It's all I can say is as a starting point the element that we were provided if we asked for it when we were appointed is is what I started working
from to walk around town with. Mhm. Um why it did not extend because basically anything west of Broad Street there hasn't been as much focus on and and that was included in the ordinance that we include more
properties west of Broad Street or they just said on the west side of town. Okay. So I mean there's nothing precluding us from adding any either there there is nothing I mean the way I work. No, I mean as what you could do now is literally start the process to start
designating them. I was gonna say because it will carry the I in my opinion it'll carry more weight or objection if these homes are designated designated or imminently going to be designated. Um so you might want to
start working on them now to be designated. And yeah, I would just say like I I walk by that all the time. I live on Riverside and actually your point Paul hits very home to me like close to home because I had it being
basically like workforce housing currently because I had shopgirl friends who lived in one of those houses like I 100% agree and so that I I get I will say though walking by there I think and knowing what the um the threshold is for
historic designation I think you would be very hardressed to shoehorn those in. They they're probably, you know, of a certain age, but I don't think any of them are I don't think they hit like the architectural significance. I mean, it
in truth, they're they're also not in great shape, but like they're already vinylsided. Like there's there's not like, you know, general shape there's I I understand, but I think you would be it would be an uphill battle to
designate those in in all honesty just because I see it so often. Yeah. I mean, there's a there's one that's probably as nondescript, but there are certainly two. Um, one still has heater shake on it. Two of them have the um have the uh the roofs, you know, the
historical roofs. Four out of the five have these historic porches, Victorian porches, you know. Um I I know there are homes that are currently in the district or or that have protective status that are similar. Um that's that's all I'm saying. Um I think it's worth trying to
save these homes personally. Um, and I think it's worth the effort to try to do that. There also may be something historic that's happened there. Given the its location, it's worth checking that out. Yeah, definitely. Are you familiar with these songs? You you are certainly have a wealth of knowledge. I
will definitely dig into the addresses and see. Yeah. I mean, this one is Yeah. So Barb Barber Pickle at she has a nice has a resident um list
from 1890 and I'm sure that they're on that list and so it'll it'll tell who the residents were in you know Anthony have you looked at um I will I haven't looked at these specific properties. No I mean Barbara
Pickles residence. Oh. Um I don't recall if I did at one point or not. I certainly I don't have it on hand to pull up. Yeah, they have maps over there of of uh that list the names of the property owners. There's one that I I
it's my favorite map in Redbank, the 1898 map that has that and it tells you kind of who's living where and it's hand like it's really cool. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's all. I have new business.
Okay. Sorry. Is there any way to figure out how we can contact the the person that owns those five houses right now? It's a developer who owns all five of them. I'm not I'm not sure if he may have a letter
of intent to buy subject to approvals. I'm not sure what the situation. I have no knowledge of the transaction itself. Don't know if he owns all of them or not. Historically, what I've seen is they get these letter of intent, you know, you get under a letter of intenting contingent on certain things, approvals and all these other things and
then if you don't get them within a certain time frame, buyer or the seller can cancel the agreement. So, I don't know if that's currently the state or not. I haven't dug into it like that and it hasn't come before. It's only been on the agenda then pulled off the agenda. Pretty sure it's the same person that owns all five buildings. Yeah, I think
he does. I don't remember John's name. You can unplug that. Sorry. A tractor attractor. Okay. What kind of proactive appropriate that we as historic
president that's who owns it? Copa copa. Franka Frank Copa Francis Ford his money on anyway. Yeah. I mean, what is there anything proactively we can do as a collective to say, you know,
Mr. Copel, would you consider talking to Mr. So and so who who you could write them a letter. I mean, that's not the developer, that's the property owner, but I don't know if because they submitted their development permit application 2022.
Um, and I don't know if now Malle now owns that. that's is uh proceeding with the project. So I don't know if Malle is now the owner or just has letter of intent probably.
Yeah. Is there any way to find out uh who who did the bluffs the because I remember the gentleman who who developed the bluffs on some you know Facebook feed I saw him he in fact said why doesn't this person do the same thing I
did on the bluffs I saw that gave me the idea introduce them you know and maybe you know they can you can give them some guidance on how to how to save these
and reuse them. And [Music] how would we do it? We'd have to someone have to write a letter to them. Maybe [Music]
um yeah, maybe to the build, but the builder has no association any longer with Bluffs, right? So, I don't even know. How would we get that person? You're talking about like the architect architect who did that? I think the developer the the one who who who h who owned all those
individual houses and who who reused them and developed them into what's now the Velus. Um this is a few years ago that that happened. But I I think he's probably still alive or you know around but I don't know his name. That's it
[Music] for my time. Yeah. So, but I I I'll volunteer to write the letter if if we want to send it collectively. Can't hurt to just inquire.
Is that a healthy plan? Oh, yeah. That's the That's the plan. I haven't seen it. It's completely different in character. Jason P.
What's that? Exactly what we need. I mean, if they were starting with a parking lot, it's not bad, but to demolish Victorian home. There it is. Yeah, that's it. Oh, so what do we need to Well, you like
the the contact information for the developer and you could write the letter to them. Um, sure. I mean, do we need to vote on it or anything to take that kind of action or I mean, my only concern would be if we're going to draft a
letter. Well, we haven't seen the plans, the submitted plans yet, right? Are those the submitted plans? Mhm. Well, I don't know if that would change if between now and whenever they decide to be heard. Honestly, I I I personally wouldn't want Well, I guess I would have
to see the letter first, but I personally wouldn't want the letter to be construed as encouraging. um any type of material ex exterior change to the character of those homes. So, I'm certainly open to reviewing the letter and putting my name on it, assuming I
agree with the letter. My personal opinion was initially a letter saying save the houses, don't demolish the house, don't do anything to um for various reasons of historical significance and have no problem drafting a letter like that too. Um so, I guess I would have to see the letter
that you proposed. I think if you include like maybe based on Anony's research um like why it's important is significant um wrap that letter that way and then like how we did for the bow
club kind of like make a motion on the letter and then say like do a roll call and put like how many people the commission this is what the commission agrees to. We can take it or leave it like I said because it's not in our
jurisdiction, right? I think you'd need some narrative about those places to Yeah. you know, it's was like a mayor lived in one of the houses or something someone said, right? And then um if that doesn't
you know encourage them to make changes then I would say attend the zoning board hearing then and not well not read the letter because you're not allowed to read the but you could say you can give points from the
letter um on testimony. I will say, you know, you talk about the narrative of the town or the development of the town. It's a shame that so many of the homes in that area are already demolished and that's all that's left.
So people for you know the last 30 40 years they don't really have the essence if they don't know the history of that was you know a beautiful area and this you know riverside you know kind of drive there and had these beautiful
homes on the water you know before Oyster Point or Molly Pitcher were there you know those were all beautiful homes on the water and this that was a really pretty thorough fair you know obviously up at Cooper's Bridge was kind of, you know, the dirty area. But getting to
there, that was all really that was all really nice. So there hopefully we get lucky with who lived specifically in those houses. But the idea of what that prominade, it was like a prominade entrance into the town, which is what I
I feel from you like what you get from it, you know. Um, I make a motion to adjourn. I second. All in favor? Okay. Me too. What I was going to Well done. Well done.