Thank you. The Redbank Historic Preservation Commission will hold a regular meeting on Wednesday, March 18th, 2026 at 7 p.m. at 90 Mama Street, Redbank, New Jersey. Adequate notice of this meeting has been posted at Burough Hall, filed with the Burough Clerk, and
provided to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River Times. The commission has maintained a policy cut off hour of 8:30 p.m. for its hearings. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands. May we have roll call, please? >> I'm asking everyone to um hit the push button when they want to speak. These mics are very new and so um
they're sensitive. Uh so if you don't have the green light on, I can't hear you in the recording. So just FYI. Lewis Almurie >> present. >> Marjorie Cavalier >> present. Liam Collins
>> present. >> Paul Kagno >> present. >> Parish Moltoff uh absent. Anthony Satero absent. Michael White absent. Betsy Valera >> present. And Matthew Cummings >> present. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um next matter is to approve the minutes of the last meeting which was on January 21st, 2026. uh draft of those minutes was included in the materials distributed in advance of the meeting. May I have a motion?
>> I'll make the motion. >> Thank you. Do I have a second? >> Second, Liam. >> Thank you. >> I thank you. >> Yeah, you can. >> I'd like to move to the minor works
review committee report. Shauna, would you like to take the lead on that? >> So, the minor works committee um reviewed applications for signage for Seven Broad Street.
Um 7 Broad Street, 21 East Front and 170. No, yeah, I think it was 178. I'm sorry, I'm confusing myself. Um but yeah, 21 East Front Street and 7 Broad
Street. Um both those signs were approved by the commission. Um and that's about it. So, Seven Bro Street, that's the kitchen one. Or is that the liquor one?
>> That is the So, that one is um a window sign, a store from window sign. Um because the liquor, the whirl liquor is the main store and then at the in their basement it's going to be a
pinball arcade game um business type of thing, recreational thing. Um and so the signage uh for that's on the window is for the pinball lounge that's downstairs. Are they
having any kind of graphic like a hand pointing down or anything? >> No, it just says under the so the name of it. I'll just share it really quickly. >> In each case, we get a rendering of what the sign Okay. >> look like. And I must say more than half
the time we go back and ask for a better rendering. Yeah. >> People if you look up that's what the sign looks like right now. >> Oh, that that I appreciate it. And and could you just show me the one the other one on Front Street? You said
>> Broad Street. >> Oh, sorry. >> Oh, this one um we have not approved it. I stand corrected. East Front Street is not approved. She is going to send back um revised drawings for this sign. >> It's not a good one. >> It doesn't comply with the signage
ordinance and it's just a little bit too much. So, she's going she's actually reworking this right now. So, I take that back. We've only approved seven Broad Street, 21 Broad 21 East Front has not been approved. >> So, did you did you give her any feedback about the sign to make it
better? What did you what did you say to her? >> We couldn't um in particular, there's that round sign that we were told is going to hang in front of the door. >> Yeah. >> But as rendered right there, >> it's the scale can't be right because
look at the door. Look at the sign. time if you walked out of the door, you'd hit your head on the sign. Um, in addition, uh, there was no information about the coloring used for the gray, what color the white is.
>> It was just there was not enough information. >> Okay. >> The sign is a little bit too So, on a zoning standard, um, it doesn't comply with our zoning ordinance um, for the sign itself. Also, the name of the store has to be on the top. It can't just be
ice cream delivery lives here. Um, so she's going to readjust that. The open sign is illuminated. So, that is going to be not illuminated anymore. Um, and so again, like I said, she's reworking all of this. >> So,
did she was she given or directed to the design guidelines? She was directed to our signage ordinance which kind of tells you how big a sign should be but she came in and didn't know what to do. So this is what she presented. She is again going to come back with um and
she's working with Marin. >> Yeah that I I guess that's where I was leading in a indirect way because supposedly Marin now has a handout to give to people who come in. She didn't know who to she this is a really a new business
owner um that just moved into town is trying to get her ice cream shop open. Um she her person came uh her landlord said fill out the the development permit application. Um when we saw that it's
located in a historic district um told her that she needed an application. So that was another thing. So, she's she's going through the process. Again, she's new. She's just throwing something together and submitting it. That's usually what
happens. And then we work with them. Yeah. I I mean, I think we talked about last year creating this environment that was more collaborative and if somebody wanted to come to us before they submitted an application, you know, that
we could have a conversation. So when did did she just talk to you or did she have a zoom call with the other members of the >> I told her zoning wise what's not permitted. So even if this board was to like this sign and approve it zoning
wise she wouldn't get approved for it. >> Okay. All right. I I mean I just would like now that we have this to >> if does she give out a copy of the the guidelines? >> Yeah. Talking to the microphone. she is aware of what is permitted in the area
and in the zone. I've given her multiple examples. Um is this is not a challenging applicant. She's very sweet. Um and again once I told her that the issues with her sign, she's reworking it with her signed person. I think she drew
this herself and I told her she needed to work with the professional because of the scale and everything like that. So again, this is someone who just said she needs to sign. She needs to open her st her store. She threw something together
and this is where we're at. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I mean, I just want to Yeah. make sure that we're all on the same page when we talk to these folks, but >> Great. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But there was one other
>> sign that we approved. It was in It was a couple of doors down the apartments on M. >> Oh, that was back in February. I'm sorry. Yes, we did approve um 120 Mammoth. Oh, my thing, huh?
120 mm. That was back in February. Should really write this stuff down. Um, this is for a sign on another sign on a window. Um, just like >> I'll put that up. >> Yes. And
>> there it is. >> Yeah. >> For Kenny's nails. >> Oh, okay. That's in the bottom of a apartment building. >> This is that new Yeah, the new >> Yeah, the black and white one on Mammoth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, that's his his logo. So, we
approved that. So, it's 120 Mammoth and seven Broad Street, one 21 East. We're still working out some kinks to it. And there's one, maybe you mentioned it already. Oh, and you didn't give us yet because
>> uh 178 Mammoth Street. I did not give that to you guys. >> It's clearly >> it's not in compliance at all and um I've asked her for more things and we're just going back and forth with that person. >> Right. Very good.
>> Yeah. So, >> okay, that's that. >> Thank you. Um, as to the river center report, I guess >> Anony's not here. >> Is not here, so we can't have a report. >> We don't know if they met even. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, historic uh sites designation
and design guidelines committee. So, the last bit with Stephen is the survey. And if you remember for for the new people on the board um in addition when we got the grant in addition to the design guidelines he has to do an inde in-depth
study of certain sites and we decided that they would all be in the business district and at the time he was hoping to do 70 but there were a couple that had to be dropped off. So um what we came down to was
um he submitted to the states to the state 67 contributing property surveys and uh one additional which is where toast is. But but the issue with with
toast is we have a period of significance when we were doing our design guidelines and the survey which was basically looking at buildings constructed between 1880 and 1955.
Um, the toast, which started out as a diner, Chinese restaurant, whatever, is outside of that. But because it's uh an oldtime diner, they wanted to include it in the survey even though it is outside the period of significance. So, he's
been back and forth, but um he did say that by the end of March that should be closed out. It is um it was submitted to um the historic trust. Uh they have a
digital copy and all the supporting documents which includes um the write up of the community engagement um of the um brochures that Stephen made
um any of the documents that he created. So they have a copy of our historic guidelines. They have a copy of the architectural survey um and all the supporting documents that goes along with that. Um the historic trust has received it. Um and so we are completely
closed out other than um submitting a hard copy. So Stephen's sending that to the state um the hard copy of the architectural survey and a hard copy of the um historic guidelines.
And so on my end, I just need to go into the historic trust uh website to close out our grant and to receive our final funding amount. >> And then when will he be paid? >> He's already paid. >> Oh, he's already been paid. He just we
are getting reimbursed back for renting the money. >> Okay. So, >> yeah, he bills us every time he does work. So, he's being paid. He's been >> and and we're on budget with that >> all the way on budget. >> Great.
>> Okay. >> Shall we uh move to the old business certified local government application? >> Did everybody printed out what Liam sent? Everybody have a copy of this? I mean I only have my own
>> um you want to share with >> um all right okay so so if we have questions along the way should we hold them till the end or can we ask questions can we ask questions while you're making your presentation >> uh we can I mean it can be a
conversation I mean I'll just summarize quickly and then I'll go through each one you can >> okay >> so the u I I mean, congratulations again on on the guidelines. That was >> that was very well done.
>> Really the first kind of phase of what we're trying to put together as the HPC. Um the second phase is to apply for to become a certified local government. So
the uh the state of uh New Jersey has a preservation office and within that office they have a historic preservation fund. And so if Redbank becomes a certified local government, we're then
eligible um for some of those funds which we currently are not eligible for because we we have not uh applied yet. Um, >> and and can I just interject that so currently I think there's 37
municipalities that are designated and in Mammoth County the only two in Mammoth County are Freehold and Middletown Township. >> Right. So that, you know, puts us at a disadvantage because we're just not
eligible at all. And um and so if we do apply and we we get certified then uh like I said we'll be eligible for grants ranging from 15,000 to 50,000 uh per year. Um and it doesn't require
any local match as well which is great. Um another benefit is local control. So we we would get a seat a formal seat at the table for the national register uh nominations. So um
the state can't nominate Red Bank unless we have a seat at the u at the table. The other nice thing is that they would provide training for us. So and part of the requirements um in becoming certified local government is that each
of us would need to go through five hours of training every year. um to make sure that we're on top of you know new laws or um at least aware of best practices and and things like that.
So the practical steps for us the application deadline for this year is actually the end of this month. So I'm probably I don't think we'll make it this year. Not a chance. >> At least we we've got the conversation started so we know what we need to put
together. Well, and if the commission approves going forward with it. >> Well, yeah, obviously if if we all agree on that. >> Um, according to um Shauna, we already are
registered on Sage, uh, the system for administering grants electronic. >> Yeah, that's what we've always used for every grant. We've always applied for registered for several years. >> Yeah, that's one of the prerequisites. Um the other thing we must ensure that
our local code explicitly empowers the HBC to designate and regulate sites. Um so our guidelines already do that in the ordinance and there's one piece I think
that's missing that we need to talk about that's kind of it's connected to this um this application as well. So um yeah that's it basically. So if we want to become certified local government, we need to um
uh meet these requirements and then that will make us eligible for those benefits that I described. So um going through this and I and the reason for new folks the reason why it's
under old business is like the first year I went to a uh conference and that's when I learned about it and so we've been thinking about it since then but one of the obstacles was that we didn't have the formalized
design guidelines which was a major step. So now that we've done that, you know, I I think at the end of the conversation, I would hope that we could have pass a motion that we would begin
the application process for it. But there's a couple of things that I think we need clarify and maybe Michelle would would want to do this for us. And and so the next thing that Liam included under his handout
was contingent demol demolition ordinance or maybe that would be an amendment to the current ordinance. So my understanding and this is maybe needs clarification that if somebody chooses to buy a
property and demolish it for whatever reason and so an example I had was one of the you know whether it's true or not if if if somebody wants to demolish a historic property even if it's not in
the district that it should come before this board before for the HPC. >> That was what we understood from the last meeting. But then when I reviewed the guidelines again, it it says something different. If you look on page eight
of the guidelines, excuse me. So the review process states for the the development application that a certificate of appropriateness is required from the HPC. But if you look at the demolition or
relocation permit review process, that uh certificate of appropriateness does not um exist. And so that's what I was going to propose tonight that we um amend the uh ordinance so that it
includes um a certificate of appropriateness and not and and also a uh a new part of the process which would be what I was going to present here to to help to clarify
what I mean. So currently a developer theoretically can could buy a a building uh ask for permission to tear it down and then
leave an empty lot for however long the permit lasts. Um and I I think this has been a kind of modus operandi that a lot of developers have used in Redbank over the years. um not only in the historic district but in
other parts of the town. >> So would the example would one example be across from Riverview Hospital where they >> tore that down and just kind of planted grass there and going to leave that for two years and then do whatever with it.
>> Right? So that would be a good example. Another example would be right down the street here on Mama Street where Big Man's West used to be. um uh Clarence Clemens nightclub and you know I I understand that that was all approved before this government
was in place. Um but at the same time now we have we're going to have a huge building that is non-contributing in the middle of the historic district for the next few generations. So >> are are you are you understanding? Yeah.
You know, if you look at 31 Mechanic Street, I mean, it's the same thing. Uh, you know, you drive past it, it sticks at what I like to call it sore thumb. It looks like a sore thumb. It's at the mouth of the historic district. It's got modern windows. It looks contemporary.
Uh, you the brick is off color. It's It's frustrating, you know, and I'm on the zoning board. And so, Sean, I don't know, you know, when I I've been on the zoning board for a few years. I haven't approved any of those projects. Um, but >> I can tell you when that was um approved
and I'll tell you all the people that's been that approved that application. >> I guess what my point is the zoning board members I'm not sure that they've ever even seen this quite quite frankly. Um, and so I know that they're not considering it because if
they haven't seen it, how do they even consider the historic guidelines? But that building to me is a fumble. Um, so what can we do is my question be what can we do to have the planning board and the zoning board get on the get on the same page because it doesn't seem to be
reflected you know and the other story remember across from Red Rock when I was on the zoning board. It wasn't at the historic meeting but the gentleman came in and you know the windows and the addition and the siding and the shiplap and all that stuff. the zoning board, you know, they didn't even know what you
all talked about. >> They actually did because I spoke about it. >> Well, I >> You weren't at the meeting, Paul. So, you can't say that they didn't know about it, but I did. >> I was at the meeting. >> You were not at the meeting. >> I wasn't at the historic meeting. >> You weren't at the his
>> But I was at the zoning board meeting. >> Yeah, you were at the zoning. That's correct. You were at the zoning board meeting, but you weren't at the historic meeting to where we discussed it. And actually what we discussed because Michelle was at the meeting too at the historic meeting and told them exactly
and they agreed to everything. >> Well, when I came back and discussed it with this board, that was not what they said. And when everyone was somewhat alarmed to learn that they had approved black windows. >> Oh, are we talking about the >> the one across? Yeah. The check >> where the flower story used to be. >> Yes.
>> Oh, we Yeah, we did review that. >> Yes. So, not >> Well, it was the five windows part. But he you're saying the zoning board didn't know anything about >> No, I'm saying that the that there was no right. We had talked about this that there was no write up about what was
discussed here. There was perhaps a relay Shauna that you said to them, but I knew that there were elements of that design that this board did not approve and we had talked about that at the following meeting. Um, so what I'm saying is now is that when is it going to come to pass that the zoning board is going to have complete understanding
what historic is trying to do? Because I don't see it. Are there are how many applications have been before the historic um commission and that's been before the zoning board? Very few. And the application that you're speaking of
for 19-29 um Mechanic Street, the one globe building that was approved in 2023. That was before you were on the board. >> Yeah. >> So, you can't say that. And that was before we did the design guidelines. So, you can't say that the historic
commission um point of view wasn't sought for this building when the none of these guidelines existed at the time. >> Well, I'm not saying that >> and it was it wasn't but it wasn't a strict it wasn't >> the ordinance that we have now. That's
that wasn't the ordinance that governed this um governed when this application went before the board. Again, it was 2023. >> Well, that I understand. My question is what has been done now when the new the what is the VA building going to going
to look like? What what are all these other new construction? Because my point is is that there hasn't been one occasion where zoning board has considered what the historic preservation committee is trying to do. >> The VA building again was approved before this applica. That VA building
was approved way before even I started working which was six years and they six years ago and they went back to the planning board for an amended site plan and that was approved again before the new ordinance came into place. So, you
can't look at the new all the buildings that are being constructed now and say, "Well, the historic commission and the design guidelines weren't being considered because these applications were approved prior to all of this." It's just that everything's happening
right now when people were delayed because of COVID, because of financing, because of whatever their projects were delayed and they're just now going for their building permit. So, you're going to see a lot of these projects that were approved prior that
yes, they don't fit into the context of the design guidelines because they didn't know about it when at the time when they were approved for their architecture and for everything else. And we can't go back to them to say, hey, the plans that you were approved that during that time before this law
existed, you have to go back and adjust it to fit our design guidelines. >> Okay. So, but we do know just just to clarify, I believe, and verify this or not that every member of the planning board got a copy of the design
guidelines. Is that correct? >> They have an electronic copy of the design guidelines. They are aware of the design guidelines. >> Okay. And what about the zoning board? Did they did they get a copy? the the they don't the zoning board does isn't really
supposed to deny applications based on the look of it. It's based on whether the site is suitable, the use is suitable for the site or the bulk variance is suitable for the site. You we kind of get a little bit too
technical when you go into like building colors. this um things like that when it comes to these applications that come before the zoning board and that's why the
recommendations of the historic commission goes to them in writing. However, there has not been many applications that's come before the historic commission that goes to the planning the zoning board. There has not
there has been probably two applications. >> Yeah. Let me I have to push back on this because there are many applications that come into zoning um that the experts for the applicants and
they're all the same, right? The experts for the applicants will come in and start telling them telling the zoning board members about the master plan and how the master plan is encouraging this and the master plan is encouraging that. Well, is there not a design? Is there not a historic element to the master
plan that >> for the talking for the historic districts and for the historic designated individual sites? >> Well, and for new construction, he talks about new construction that are in the guidelines. So, why is it >> new constructions within the historic districts and then
>> what is the point if we can't bring up to applicants who are building new construction? What exactly are we doing? Like what is the point >> within the historic districts? And that's this that's in on a historic property that that's our jurisdiction. If you read the ordinance, it states
that we have jurisdiction. >> But what about the master plan? Because >> the experts are looking for variances from the ordinances. But what about when they're quoting the master plan? Why can't we say as a zoning board member, hey, you know, the master plan also has a historic element
>> and the historic element dictates what's for the historic districts and the historic sites. >> I don't believe that to be true. I design to be >> You can ask Michelle on this, but that is that is what the element is for. The
element is it speaks about the historic districts and the historic site. It tells you what should be a potential historic district or a potential historic site. It talks about historic districts and sites and what is potential to be designated and then if
you decide to move forward, you should designate those sites. >> Okay. So, new construction in Redbank is are are you saying that new construction in Redbank should not take into consideration the historic character of this town? They can.
But if it's in a historic district or site, you can have more say. But if it is not, we we speak to people all the time and say, "Yes, you have to look at the historic charact look at the character of the streetscape of the of the areas around you. Match
what's in there." That's as close as we can get to say, "Look at the building across from you. Look at the elements that's in down the street." We've said that many times for the historic um for the zoning board and for the planning board. >> I haven't Well, I'm on the zoning board
and I don't recall anyone ever. >> Are you at every single meeting, Paul, though? >> I'd say I'm probably at about 95% of every single meeting. >> Okay. Okay. Can I just Can I just clarify one thing because >> I didn't say Well, I I'm not going to let you disparage that I'm somehow an absentee zoning board. >> I'm not I'm not disparaging.
>> 90% of the meeting. You're saying, Paul, that we can't say that the the zoning board does not look at things like that. You we're I'm not going to have you disparage the entire zoning board. >> Disparaging the entire zoning board. >> I think we're talking about moving.
>> Where do we want to go with this? >> Well, can I can I continue my presentation because I think it will address something. >> Well, I' I'd like to spend more time about what we can do going forward and less critiquing the past. Okay. >> Yeah. I go ahead. >> We all agree. We all agree that
something needs to change because what what is happening is and what Paul's saying is that these buildings are approved. They're now non-contributing. They're going to be with us for generations. And that has there's a
problem. So, we need to fix that problem. What I think from a legal standpoint of view, the problem is is that the ordinances from the zoning and planning boards are not integrated with the historic preservation ordinances.
And so the pro the process then is disrupted and we're we're ignored because we're not integrated into the the >> Anony's on. >> Oh. Oh, >> I've been here the whole time, guys.
So we so I think that and I don't I'm not I think we need to get advice from Michelle. We need to get advice from the burough uh attorney. >> Ultimately the purpose of this conversation that Liam's prepared is
perhaps to make recommendations to our attorney to look into it and and ultimately have a a motion to go forward. And one of the things that even Steven told us that once we had the
design guidelines published then then we should then look at the zoning ordinances and that that they should be in compliance but >> well and not only in compliance but integrated >> integrated. Yes. Right. So so >> their process.
>> Right. Right. So when when a when someone comes with a building permit proposal to the zoning board, they would say, "Oh, the first question is, is this in the historic district?" Yes, it is. Okay. Then you must go to the HBC first,
get your uh certificate of appropriateness, and then come back to us. That that step is missing because >> it's not missing. That's already there, right? But how come how come we're missing all these? >> They're they aren't missing because they
aren't in the district >> district, >> right? So that's >> Well, no, the one on Mammoth Street just up the street there. Oh, because that was approved years ago. Yes. Yeah. >> That was a different one >> prior to the ordinance. But going forward, right, is there is there a
difference between our responsibility >> in historic district and and a historic site or building if it's if it's going to be demolished. That's that's to me is a is a first step. Yeah, that's what I'm pointing to on page eight of the
guidelines where the certificate of appropriateness is missing, which is an integral part uh in in us preserving and saving those sites. And so my proposal is that if that happens, so if I if I
come and I say I I have this building in the historic uh district, I would like to tear it down and build something new there. Okay, that's fine. But you have to have uh first you have to present to us what will be put there in its place
before you take down the old building. Uh and uh that that's outlined here in my in the presentation. So the the solution could be uh a simultaneous approval. of the replacement plan. So, no demolition
permit would be issued for a contributing structure until the HBC is approved uh a certificate of approp for the replacement building. And why is this? This ensures that we never lose a historic asset without knowing exactly
what is coming next and ensuring it fits in with the district's character. Um these are all best practices, by the way, what I'm suggesting. Um, the 2-year use it or lose it clause, which would be demolition and new construction permit, should be linked. If the new building is
not substantially completed within 24 months of the demolition, a penalty applies. And then it gives some suggested penalties for vacant lots. If a developer tears down a building, fails to rebuild within the two-year window. I suggest a performance bond and
maintenance penalty which would be before the demolition the developer must post a cash bond for example 5% of the estimated new construction cost if the lot is still empty after two years the bond is forfeited to the red bank historic preservation fund.
The pocket park penalty or park yeah pocket park penalty if the lot remains vacant. The owner is legally required to install and maintain a public green space, sod, fencing, and benches at their own expense until construction begins.
Daily fines, a non-compliance fee of $500 per day for maintaining a blighted vacant lot within a designated historic district. Then I I I mentioned these different uh precedents of case studies for other
townships within New Jersey that have implemented these uh penalties and and laws into their ordinances. And then I have a suggested timeline for you know the first part we've already done stage already um
we've already uh done that. The second part would be to have the burough attorney and maybe Michelle review our suggestion here that that uh amendment be made to chapter 490 um in
the demolition clause uh ordinance that we see on page eight of the guidelines. and uh that we we have a draft of what that ordinance will look like
um by the next HPC meeting >> if possible. >> Right. >> Yeah. If if if possible. Um and the training enrollment. So, does that have to be all members need to have some
training or or just a representation of of the people? >> I believe it's all members have to have five hours of training every year. >> Every year. >> Yeah. We need to submit our resumes.
Mhm. So the next possible opportunity for people to get trained or you know five hours would be the Marstown conference in June. Um I'm on a panel
there. So so I will be there on the second day. >> I'll be attending as well. >> Okay. Great. For the whole for the two days. >> Both days. >> Okay. Great. Um so people and I think there's also online
so it's not like somebody has to go to a conference >> there there are online opportunities as well so we should take advantage of those um and you know if if everybody agrees to start taking these steps and
we're not going to make the deadline this year but have a goal of of com of submitting by March of 2027. seven and accomplishing the various things that Liam's put put forward.
So, um discussion >> would it be sensible >> into the microphone, >> right? Would it be sensible to form a a committee of three or so
people? >> Can't be more than that. Yep. um to take this forward. >> I I think you know having gone through the design guidelines with three members of the committee and and one additional
liaison with the river center um is the best way to get it going rather than having us function as a committee as a whole to to take this on. I mean that would that would be my recommendation.
Uh the would the other possibility be to have the grant writer submit the or pull the application together? Shauna, >> the grant writer only applies for grants. >> Okay. So this would have to be done through a committee then this application >> it would have to be done through my
office. >> All right. So, >> so well, so >> committee would be useful then in the process to help your office to get it. >> The commission would like to put together a committee. That's fine.
>> I would I would strongly recommend it because it's easier to get like three people together, you know, even like on a Zoom or something than to function as a committee as a whole to get it done. Um, some of these things I think are
easier than others. Perhaps Christina could shepherd amending the ordinance of the HPC perhaps. I mean, she's not here tonight, but you know, she is our
liaison. So, if you know, I mean, anybody want to speak to it at all? So, yeah, >> I'll volunteer to be on the subcommittee. Okay, that's one. >> Okay, I will too. >> All right, Liam. Okay.
>> One more. >> Is there another? Anyone? >> I'll volunteer to be honest with you. >> Great. So, we have three. We have our three. So, um, my recommendation would be for those three to really get do a
deep dive into this application and and you know, let us know. I think we can all start working on our resume. So, as I understand it, Liam, and let correct me if I'm wrong, we all have a different designation,
a different category to why we were appointed to this board. So my recommendation would be focus on that. Um >> you know and and start working on on that aspect of it. So that would be one
item to take off. Yeah, that's a good first step that one of our checks that we can check off that together for the >> if in your if you in your investigation, Liam, um if there would if there's a
sample if if you could reach out and see, you know, just what kind of thing they're looking for. I mean, do we need do we need to say where we went to grammar school or something? I I don't know. Um, you know, but what what should be included? What should be included in the resume?
>> Okay, I can I could send out some. >> Yeah, just send out an inquiry and and you know, if they have a sample, we could start working on that. Um, who will contact Christina to talk with her about amendments needed to the ordinance
for us to do our job in a better way? >> I think you first need to talk to Michelle. She wrote the ordinance. I just sent an email to her asking for a discussion. >> So, we'll just we'll just say that if she could look at Liam's notes and the
ordinance. Oh, okay. So, >> okay. >> And the burough attorney, should they be involved at all? >> Said it last. >> Okay. >> So, when it's ready to go before council, that's when he looks at it. >> Great. >> Okay. And so the training aspect of it,
I mean, we if we're shooting to maybe have this ready by March of 2027, um if we could ask everybody on the board if this could be reflected in the minutes to look at training opportunities, uh a 5h hour minimum.
Um >> is there a list of available trainings that you're aware of or a website or something? I I just know that there are different ways of approaching training. Um it
could be like I I don't know but for example if you go on excursions, if you go on guided tours of historic sites in different cities, maybe that would be something that would be uh included as well as formal conferences. And then
there are at the national level we could also um I I could ask Stephen if he's aware of various online >> there are always many online continuing education opportunities many of which are free some are paid um but I imagine
reaching out to like the state historic trust they'll they should know of things of this nature. >> Do you think you could look into that for us? Um, and >> do we have a contact at preservation New Jersey or the historic trusts?
>> Uh, I don't know of offhand. No, I mean just kind of reach out and then Shauna, we do have a budget so that if people attend these conferences, they are reimbursed. >> I you would have to let me know and I register you because it comes out of my budget.
>> Okay. So, as a presenter, um, I have a discounted rate of $40, but others it's >> So, you'd have to let me know. You'd have to send me that information so that I could put it in the invoice. >> I have to >> you would you would Yeah, I have to
register you. I have to do all of that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, >> Okay. >> So, um, >> well, we don't need a motion then on any of this really. Well, I think we're kind of everybody seems to be in favor of
that. >> Well, we should >> we should probably formalize >> formalized the formation of this >> yes >> committee. Okay. >> Yes. >> So, do we have a motion? Uh we've obviously you've heard the three who volunteered for this committee. Uh do we
have a motion to uh make that a committee focused on the certified local government application? >> Motion. Y >> So Liam's making the motion and and so and this would be formalized
onto future agendas under reports. >> Yes. >> Okay. And we could call it the Certified Local Government Committee. >> Or if you have a better name. >> I need a second. >> We need a second. >> Second.
>> Thank you. All in favor? >> I I >> Any opposed? >> Um Anthony also is in favor. He raised his hand. >> I Okay. Do we know to as a uh certified
local government, what are there any other commitments that we would then be sort of needing to adhere to on a yearly basis? >> Well, go ahead. You mentioned the National Historic Committee that we can
serve on. Why don't you mention that? >> Uh oh, you mean the uh >> historic sites? We can't that we don't it's not mandatory but we can >> yeah that that that makes us eligible to to uh to nominate
um sites but one of the other things we need to maintain is an inventory list and an inventory system actually um that I >> which we're doing >> with the second component of Stephen's
>> um work for us >> right okay an in-depth study survey of of certain sites. So, what I don't know is if to maintain it, if we have to add certain sites, but the if we're if we're
designated, then we do have the money that the that the town does not have to come up with to hire someone like Steven to survey some additional sites. And we all on this committee should have a copy
of what that survey. So if any of the sites that he has completed this survey of comes before us, we like this will have with us a history of that site and and its purpose. And because under the
ordinance there are different reasons for designating something as historic beyond the architecture. So >> well and I know we had several different inventory lists. Did we ever consolidate those one? >> It's on the website. >> It's on the website now.
>> Okay. So we do have one kind of master right now. >> Yeah. >> So that that's one of the Yeah. >> annual return. Well, we're I I think the good news is we're so far ahead of where we were two two
years ago and and this is now I believe achievable. So, yeah. Okay. So, I guess that's >> and then do we need to put a motion forward to have Michelle work on on the
amendment to the >> Okay. So, how do we we'll >> all >> Okay. All right. So, then you could work with Right. Okay. >> Great. >> Great. So, one of the three of you in
future meetings will give us an update on how we're doing and what we need and you know and and it really I think it helps to move forward to have that Very good. >> Yeah, absolutely. Very good.
>> Thank you. Before moving to new business, um Anthony, we had skipped over the river center >> and I was sh I was shouting in silence over here. >> Oh, >> we Well, I guess your mic was not on or something.
>> I was in I was in but not as a panelist. So, I couldn't see myself and I had no access to the chat. >> Ah, okay. But I am in I'm in now. I'm here. I talked to uh Marouin briefly. Um
they have a lot going on with River Center. Obviously, Broadwalk um is back again this year. They are working on some special events to highlight the arts and home design uh businesses in
town. and just, you know, very appreciative of that we talked and considered uh River Center as part of the guidelines. Um, you know, preserving the history of the town and they're doing what they can to help preserve
that as well. That's was the basis of it. It was very quick conversation. >> Okay, good. >> Thank you. So, can I ask Anthony, do they havely scheduled meetings now of the committee that you're on?
>> You know what? I I have not Marin was kind of in and out, so I didn't really push for that. Um Karen had been doing the regular meetings with >> right >> her. Um but I can absolutely get on a regular meeting with her if you want. I
I I think that's best because I'm sure that at least quarterly >> that subcommittee you're on. I mean, you're not on the board. You're just a liaison to a a subcommittee of the board and I'm sure that they had placed me
quarterly and sometimes Karen was out of the loop on that. So, you know, even if you could, she has to have it on the calendar is what I'm saying. So even if the next time you talk to her, find out if if there's a schedule of meetings for 2026.
>> Yeah, they they have quarter I know that they have their quarterly River Center. You know, they're you're talking about their exec meetings. I I I don't know how how they designate the group that we want you on, which is about appearances
and when they talk about signages and new businesses moving in and who's talked to who and is is is there somebody that needs their handheld for something, you know, >> that's the way I personally envision it. the
way when a new business comes into town, Marin meets with them and specifically talks to them about signage. >> Yeah. They're supposed to there's a whole packet that they've forever that River Center has always given out. The problem is, as Shauna knows, a lot of
businesses don't go to River Center. They don't know to go to River Center. They just >> I'm opening a business and they get all this information peacemeal. It's been a issue with River Center forever. they can't hunt everybody down and people just don't know to go to them.
>> So, they've been working on that process as well. Well, to to my mind, you as a real estate agent are the perfect person for this job to reach out other real estate agents to try and be um a
collaborative partner with them that that if we educate the people who are renting the properties, you know, and and present ourselves as a support for the property,
It's It's got to be better. >> Absolutely. It just, you know, the reality is it moves very quickly and a lot of people don't go through a realtor for a commercial business. They go right to the landlord. They go right to the business itself >> and it just it just happens fast. So, we
can do our best to guide it, but I'm just being, you know, transparent that we're you're always going to have these issues where River Center is trying to track down a business or someone's not getting the information that they're supposed to get. I don't know if you know when they they eventually start to
get that information when they get to Shauna, right? When they get to do it to Burough Hall and at that sometimes it's very frustrating for the business owner. You would think that they would have done all their due diligence ahead of time, but a lot of them don't. They get
excited, they sign the lease, they go ahead, they get real far down the line, and then they find out all the stuff they did wrong when they get to Shauna and they're getting ready to open. >> Can you can you think of anything that would help us be more connected with
this whole process? I mean, >> yeah, I have a good relationship with Marin. So, certainly, you know, being involved in that, but as far as when a business is signing a lease and then registering, you know, for their business and doing all that stuff, it's
really landlord to landlord, you know, it's every individual building owner that's signing that lease and talking to them. It's really educating the maybe the owners of the buildings, you know, about this stuff as well. >> Yeah. Well, when we sent out that letter
about to all the property owners in town, I I I'm sure not all the letters reached the right people, I guess. I don't know because we still had people tearing down slate roofs if you remember when we first started doing that.
>> Um, but I mean, you know, maybe maybe something will break, you know, something, you know, the communication back and forth. I I don't know. I'm >> yeah I think just having you know as technology and things are more
accessible for people and River Center has been going through some redesign of their website the burrow's been doing their redesign of their website. I think if we just prominently display these things and can educate to your point some of the you know commercial brokers
in town so that they understand this process more >> and the landlords as well um and then RiverCenter just being proactive in like here's your welcome packet when you when you come to us but most people don't know to go to them is the bigger issue.
Yeah, >> Anony's correct because I've referred >> and I realize I'm frozen. So, I don't know if you can hear me or but you guys are frozen on my end. >> But yeah, we can hear you, Anthony. But, um, I've referred people to River Center many times because I can't spend the
time to handhold them. So, um, to walk them through the process of having to get the development permit, the zoning permit, then to get a CEO to get their inspections to make sure that the inspections are closed out. Um, so I've always referred a lot of times I am the
first contact um for people with new businesses because they're um they're um t they're the landlord says here you have to go get this um you have to go to the town. They don't tell them what they have to go to the town for, what type of
permits they need. They just show up and they're completely lost. Um, and so you have people that need guidance on, well, you first you need to submit the zoning permit and then you could go, you know, do your fire marshal inspections and everything like that. So, we have to
literally walk them through it. And sometimes if it's taking too long, I'd refer them to River Center just so that they could help them hold their hands better than I can. Um, so we get that and then you then we get where, oh, they
put up a sign and they didn't realize that they needed a permit for the sign outside of their certificate of occupancy. So then they get knocked um a violation for putting up a sign without going for historic review or even getting a zoning permit. So then they
come even though it says it in their approval that um they're only approved for the certificate of occupancy, not a sign. and so they don't read that they're not approved for a sign or exterior improvement. So then we have to go back. Um so we get that a lot. It's
it's just the way of the world right now. No one's telling anyone anything, especially the property owners. They're just hand telling them go to the town and see what you need from them. >> Well, maybe that's the goal this year to
get us out there and making ourselves more visible. I don't know how >> it's definitely I think to Shauna's point that's exactly the breakdown that that I've seen is just the property owners they they don't want to they know it changes all the time so they don't
want to tell somebody something wrong they say figure it out with the town go you know that's that's what happens >> yeah they don't even want to sign the application because our applications the zoning permit and the historic preservation application um certificate
of appropriateness that als that requires the property owner and the applicant to sign. Um, and the sometimes the tenants don't want to go back to the property owner to even get the their signature because they're afraid of the property owner because they can't find a
property owner um or or the landlord or whoever and we require a survey sometimes and they're like, "Well, can you give us the survey because I really don't want to go back to the landlord to go ask them this question. They're they were mean. They were this, you know, they're pushing me out the door." So you
we get this a lot. It's a I feel their frustration, but we do have an application process that we have to go through um to make everything work. So just wanted to say that um Anony's absolutely right. It's it's a struggle for them. Um and unfortunately
they don't know that they have the great resource of this river center to help guide them. Um the new property owners, it's frustrating. They're paying um the tenants, they're paying all this rent and you know the the landlords aren't helping them
>> when it's needed. >> So hard to believe considering there's vacant storefronts and properties. You'd think that they'd be bending over backward to help the future tenant. >> Not not every uh property owner cares if there's somebody in their building or
not. >> Okay. Just for a little more background, is there a formal relationship between River Center and the HPC or is that something that's a hope future or >> No. Well, two years ago when we were
reconstituted, we reached out and asked if we could have a liaison with them and and Karen, who's not here tonight, was the first person to take on that role and Anthony. And so the new
director was particularly open and I think that because we included them in the design guidelines I you know I think that was also a positive step that that there should be that cooperation between the between the two. So
>> it's more or less an informal relationship. >> Yes. Right. They don't have to let us in. We didn't have to let them in. Right. >> But yeah, >> mutually beneficial. But I think all all of our expectations have to sort of
align with the fact that it's an informal relationship, right? >> Yeah. >> Well, also River Center is not >> to get closer. >> River Center is not an integral part of Redbank, >> right? >> Government, right?
>> It's a separate >> nonprofit. Yeah. >> Volunteer, right? >> Right. I guess we're down to the new business. Um before we go to new business, I'm sorry. I just want to add I forgot to add this on to our um agenda. And the last meeting we had
talked about um the Red Bank records building um uh I had mentioned that they had >> register. >> Yeah, register. I'm sorry. >> Um that they had got the violation didn't show up to court. We've been back uh waiting for them to submit so that
they finally submitted the application. Um even though you know the the improvements have already been made but they finally have submitted the application. I have it. Um I'm going to
ask them to come to the meeting the next meeting um just to explain themselves um just out of principle um of what they did. Uh so I have um I I haven't
reviewed it. This was just placed on my desk um two days ago and I haven't had a chance to like completely go through it and reach out to them, but I'm going to ask them to show up to the next meeting. >> Very good. >> Are any fines being issued or >> Yes, fines were being issued
and that's why now they finally um I think the prosecutor when I spoke to him at the two weeks ago, he had told me that the attorney was going to reach out to me. Um, and I guess now this is like
the last straw. So, yeah. >> Good. Thank you. >> Okay. So, now to move to new business. Um, site visit 342 Broad Street. Uh, if we could we put that picture up.
So, let me provide some context. I don't know if this is familiar to everyone here, but this is u a property at uh 342 Broad Street. It's on the southwest
edge of town uh next to the food town uh supermarket. >> It's commonly known as the Mushroom House. >> Commonly known as the Mushroom House. It is not designated a historic property.
It does have a obviously a distinctive look uh with those with both the landscaping and the roof uh resulting in that being called mushroom house. It's been there I mean I've lived in Redbank or around here
pretty much my whole life and that house has been looking like that for as long as I can remember. Um that house is at risk. There is it is at the corner of a large
tract of several acres of land. I don't know 10 or 11 acres including the Atlantic Club which is around the corner from it. Uh and the parking lot surrounding the Atlantic Club. there is a developer
who uh wants to uh who's in the process of purchasing that property with the intent to build housing. Um and as part of that um
his plan would be to tear this down. So uh you want to give more color to the extent you have it? >> Sure. Um, so we met with the developer. Um I spoke to him to say that um even
though it's not designated as a historic site, um the board has mentioned it several times in passing and um being that it's a staple, it's it's its own landmark that people have used to, you
know, locate um as a location uh device um for for the burrow. Um it's easily identifiable by its character. Um and though again it's not designated, I feel I felt as though it was near and
dear to this board's heart. Um and so I asked in that meeting that the developer meet with a subcommittee to go through the property. um they can show you for themselves. Um the state of it from the
interior to the exterior and their reasons for why it can't be saved. Um and they agreed, the developer has agreed to do a tour and they're very eager to actually meet with the committee members to discuss um
this property. Um so I would like to know which three members would like to um well who are available to meet with the developer to discuss this property. Um I would like to schedule the meeting
within the next week which uh would kind of help us all um to get this moving and then we'll report back at our at our next meeting. If I I am I I know personally some of the people involved. Does that mean I
should recuse myself from >> No, it's not going to come before this commission because it's not designated. But if you would like to attend a meeting to discuss about this, it doesn't matter. It's not anything that you're going to have to make a a ruling on. It's just a courtesy um
that the developer has bestowed upon us to look at the site before you know making and and do any recommendations that um they're open to recommendations and yes they have received >> the um
>> design guidelines even though it's not in a historic district I did hand them the design guidelines to say hey you know in your new development um your design since you're just in the beginning phases of your project. Take a
look at this um and see what you can pull from it to help with your design. Um and he was very happy to take it and flip through it. >> Did I film the design? >> We're not there yet. We I haven't made a
determination yet. So, it wouldn't matter. I I don't think it would matter. >> So, let me just also say that I I don't think it's I can mention who the developer is >> and this time I don't think it's best to disclose. >> Oh, okay. Well,
>> just because again, >> let me just I can say this >> although >> that the person in the past has been opening open to saving a historic building. So, so it's not somebody that I think would be as hard to sell as other
>> actually they have saved a historical building in a similar situation. So, um, you know, the pitch could be that it could be turned into some maybe community building
restored for a Redbank museum or uh, you know, some something that serves the community. So, >> I'll volunteer to attend the walkth through as well. >> All right. So, >> Paul need to coordinate.
>> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's a I'm asking you guys give me a date for next week if that works. Um just let me know your availability so I can just tell them next um tomorrow.
Email them tomorrow. >> It's up to you. You guys let me know. I'll make myself available. Throw out some times and days. They're they will probably attempt to say that
it would cost too much. >> I Yeah, but Well, who knows? >> Yeah. Well, the the the stone there is what's known as popcorn stone. And that's >> I think it was peanut stone >> or peanut stone or is it peanut stone or >> I I think it's peanut stone.
>> I don't even know if that's peanut stone to be honest. >> I think I'm pretty sure it is. >> Is that more native to Pennsylvania that sort of stone? No, it's only >> the peanut stone. You actually see the little stones. I have to go back. Um,
but I'm pretty sure that uh maybe maybe it is. I have to go back and examine >> it again. But I am curious, you know, talking about saving it and, you know, all this stuff. But aside from the pe the the pillars,
what's really historic about this house? I have to play devil's advocate on this one. I know. I I left you a voicemail. I thought if anybody would know the history of this house, it would be you, Anthony. >> There's there's really not like there's aside from it being a visual thing that our, you know,
the last few generations know about. It's not like somebody notable lived there and put these in because they sold magic mushrooms or something, you know. >> Well, there is history. >> It was it was uh constructed. It was uh
built at the request of an actor and the name is publicly available. I just can't remember the name of it, but a retired actor had this built as his retirement home. Yeah. And originally the roof was the
cedar shingle you see there on the on the pillars there. The whole roof was like that originally. >> Well, >> maybe we could find out. >> Yeah. I mean, I definitely want would like to, you know, hear more about
>> the tour. I don't feel like I need to physically, you know, tour it if you guys are are all going, but, you know, to me, the historic aspect would be maybe the the pillars, you know, the house itself. There's nothing notable about that house to me. You know, the
architecture, the whatever, it's like it looks like trash. the from the first preliminary drawing that I that was presented and yeah for anybody that's from like the media that I don't have a copy of it. I made sure that they didn't
I don't have a copy of it, but um from what was shown to us that that that was actually a key feature that the developer really liked was the pillars um the little mushroom pillars and they had said well maybe we can incorporate you know little pillar those pillars
throughout the whole development um as it goes along just as a a nod to >> an homage. Yeah, I feel like that's where we're going to end up with this just, you know, is that if they can do something that would be an homage to it
or save the base structure. But you can see they're they're falling apart. I did go and visit the site actually a while ago. Um, and notice that they were like those pillars are all falling apart. >> Well, why don't you guys throw out a a
day to begin with and then two days? >> Just you know what? Um cuz you guys all probably have to just send me an email >> loop back. Yeah. >> Um >> I'll include actually right now I'll type up an email just reply back to it with some dates for next week. The only
time I'm not good is Wednesday. I feel like I have all day meetings. So but other than that I am open. One observation I have about this site and the developers plans that actually would facilitate
preservation in some form is that this lies at the corner of one of the corners of the whole site which is you know much bigger than this property is. And therefore to the extent
it would be conceivable possible that you could restore this, renovate this and build use it as a clubhouse or something like that, a meeting house and h have the architecture of the rest of
the new buildings mimic this or be consistent with it so that when done the whole thing look this fits in with That's very similar to what they did with the bluffs. >> I don't like how it looks now, though, I guess, is my point. It doesn't
contribute to the like the way that that house looks. The pillars are are memorable, but the house itself, it's not as distinguishable distinguishable. It doesn't represent the architecture of Redbank. I wouldn't want 10 of those on
that site. >> I don't know. >> Well, I think see what it says. I mean, when you go I I don't know. >> It looks a bit like a California cottage, which the actor probably came from California, but also the >> I wish we could find out who the actor
was. >> You know, I'm wondering what opinion Stephen would have of it. >> Yeah. >> You know, so maybe someone can shoot him a a copy of it, see what his opinion is with respect to it. He is an expert. >> That's it. Very good. >> Absolutely. I think that's a great idea.
>> Okay. the the Gertrude apartment building across the street um was >> 1920s I thought. >> Yeah, that was originally built by the Eiseners, I believe, but it was um inspired, I think, because they were spending a lot of time in California.
And so that this little section of Redbank is a little bit of California craftsman quality. >> California California corner. >> Okay. How consistent with it being on the west side of Redbank? It's the part of Redbank closest to California.
>> Really stretchy. All right. Is there um so that exhausting I think the agenda. Um any public comments or anything else anyone wants to discuss?
Um, I know I sent out the email um and only Matthew responded, but who would like to attend, sorry, the um historic preservation
um conference is from July 17th, June, sorry, June 17th to the 18th. Uh, it's two days. You could choose to go one day or both days, but um, >> so I'm I'm going on the 18th, so I'm
part of the panel. >> So days >> Thursday, Wednesday and Thursday. >> Just let me know so that I can register you. And thank you. >> You want So you want me to send you an email?
>> All right. Day one begins at 1 p.m. to 4:30. Um, and day two, day two, day two begin, sorry. Um, it's all day.
>> It starts at what time? Oh, >> it starts at breakfast. Yeah, >> but you could go later, you know. So, sorry. >> Does everyone have a copy of the agenda? >> Which agenda for that?
>> Which agenda? >> It's on It's online. >> I can send it to everyone. >> Yeah, if you can share >> I'll share it. I >> I'll take a look. I'll see if I can get one of those. I'm not sure. >> Okay. >> I can't do those. >> All right. So, just email me. Um respond to my email with this, please.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Do we have a motion for adjournment? >> Motion. >> Thank you. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you. All those in favor?
>> I >> I >> Thank you, Anthony. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Thanks, >> everybody. My pleasure. Uh, >> is it a