okay the Red Bank Zoning Board of Adjustment will come to order this 17th day of April 2025 the time is 6:30 ansbury absent ryan Mass here eileen Hogan here beno absent sharon Lee here
vincent Lang here paul Ga here anna Cruz absent amanda Calabano absent eugene Horowitz here and Chris adequate notes so this meeting is proposed at Burough Hall filed with the
Burough Clerk and mailed to the Ed Park Press at two times this meeting is being tape recorded and in the event the applicant uses services of the court reporter to transcribe the tapes the board requires a copy of the transcript we will break at about 8:00 p.m for
deliberation of testimony thus far in conference room on the first floor public is invited to attend however discussion between board members and the public is not permitted at that time no new cases will be heard after 9:00 p.m the Red Bank Zoning Board of Adjustment
has maintained a policy cut off hour of 9:30 for its hearings any applicant heard this evening will be carried over to the next scheduled meeting pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to
the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all okay we have a couple administrative matters to uh regular uh meeting minutes april
3rd motion to approve i'll approve i'll second all in favor i Okay we have a resolution of approval for 3 302 River Road okay Mr chairman
good evening that was an application approving use variance approval for a uh construction or I'm sorry for conversion for mixeduse residential/professional office use to a two family dwelling and the resolution recites the very intense
and good faith and civil debate we had regarding what's the difference between a mother daughter structure what's the difference between a two family structure what do the regulations allow what were the applicants actually proposing the application after that good faith debate uh was approved by
majority of the board and the conditions of note were um let's see um in conjunction with the approval and the issuance of any building permits the applicant shall knowingly perpetually intentionally and officially abandon any professional office use associated with
that site a minimum of 10 off- streetet parking spaces are going to be maintained at least two of those 10 parking spaces are going to be specifically reserved and dedicated for that second dwelling no further expansion or intensification of uh the two family apps and further approval uh
from the zoning board and that the applicants need to obtain a CFO certificate of occupancy before any uh um uh occupancy of that unit signed resolution gets forwarded to the tax office they have to obtain any necessary outside approvals
and I think the other thing that I had left blank is um you're going to uh if you are okay with this we're going to have our typical condition that um unless otherwise agreed or otherwise extended by the zoning board uh the within approval shall be deemed abandoned within two years from adoption
within resolution or any agreed upon extension unless the applicants obtain the building permit so Mr chairman if it's acceptable to you and the board we can adopt that as modified okay somebody like to make a motion to approve i'll
make a motion a second ray Mass yes eileen Hogan yes sharon Lee yes vincent Light yes eugene Horwitz yes okay we have resolution of approval for
50 Hilltop Terrace mr chairman uh that was a resolution that was previously distributed that was bulk variance uh to construct and install several improvements to a site containing an existing family home and you'll recall it was construction of a garage construction of a an addition second
story edition second floor balcony an extension of the driveway and that was on hilltop terrace which is sort of a unique um feature given the slope and the condition the application was approved the only variances that were needed were associated with a um shown
it was a frontfacing garage yes whereas the ordinance requires the garage to be oriented toward the side or the rear and then the conditions of note were no utilities in garage except for electricity compliance and affordable housing comply
with Shauna's um memo um review memo and the materials uh appropriately match and complement the existing structure that was the the gist of that application okay uh I'll make a motion to approve
i'll second all in favor i got a rolling ray Mass yes eileen Hogan yes sharon Lee yes vincent Light yes paul Kagman yes and Eugene Horowitz yes
okay new business we have 232 South Pearl Street all right and Mr chairman as I'm going to say as the team comes forward but the team's already there so what we're going to do a couple of uh procedural things which we'd like to address um
um Hey perfect timing so why don't we just announce yes 36 uh Chris Havens has just uh shown up for the board so so Mr havens we're just about to start this so you're absolutely
entitled to uh vote and participate so um this is a Jacob Morales application 232 South Pearl Street um so we were here uh roughly January 2nd 2025 and at that time the meeting was adjourned um
so that I think you uh Kevin Assad you were going to take some of the comments and concerns that some of the board members expressed and come back so we have a sort of a unique procedural thing here that we sort of talked about earlier uh today that um given the fact
that it's been such a long time um relatively uh and given the fact that there have been some potentially significant revisions and given the fact that you have renoticed and given the fact that um there might not necessarily
be a quorum or large quorum of board members members to participate uh tonight uh because they were not necessarily available for the first hearing and they didn't review the transcripts there was a discussion as to whether or not uh you wanted to or you were okay with just starting all over
from scratch um are you okay with that or want to do that yeah I think that's uh that's for the best and I I I know that you see a lot of applications up here and um you don't necessarily have them all memorized uh for months at a time so we would be very happy to Okay
so thank you for that and towards that end is there anyone here who had any questions comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the supplemental or additional notice they received don't see any uh the board secretary sorry the acting board
secretary and I reviewed the notice and found everything to be in order so it' be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed so um what we'll do just a point of order sorry I recused myself from the first hearing because Mr morales's uh two hours away's father is
a neighbor and friend of mine okay so I didn't listen to that so I don't want to do this i can't do this one either sure i Right if you recuseed yourself from the first one you should probably recuse yourself from this one too um so thank you for the number nope no problem and I think we'll just note that because I
think under our ordinance we just have to put that in the resolution so thank you thank you Chris sorry for making them no it is and so what we'll do is uh let's swear in um two of the more awesome women in the
world so we're going to swear in Shauna Ebanks who is our director of community development and a planner and we're going to swear in uh Jacqueline Dur who is our uh board engineer so uh Shauna and uh Jacqueline if you could raise your right hands do you swear that the
information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any will be the truth to best your knowledge to help you guide yes okay let the record reflect that both uh individuals have been sworn and what we will do is mark into the record what we as a board
have before us so A1 is the zoning application dated August 28th 2024 a2 is the zoning denial letter dated July 12th 2024 a3 is a survey prepared by Morgan Engineering that's dated May 30th
2024 a4 is uh the plans prepared by Edward O'Neal of um uh O'Neal Architecture and Planning and that was dated August 15 2024 revised January 21st 2025 consisting of five sheets and
then A5 is going to be the TNM Associates review memorandum and that's dated March 17th uh actually is that yeah it is March 17 2025 and I think that's all that we have
correct Kevin i think we're missing something we'll get it so towards that end u good evening Mr rossi and the floor is yours thank you um so as discussed we were here on January 2nd and um before that um Mr morales Jacob
bring the mic yeah you gota talk talk right into it you got right into it so um Mr morouse uh seated to my right was previously the applicant for um a
similar application on Berry Street he had a vacant lot um had designed a home that he wanted to use for his family and um it was an isolated undersized lot and unfortunately for Mr morales the
neighboring property owner did um assert their uh desire to purchase the property and uh they purchased it for value and with that kind of died on the vine so um Morales resumed his search for a
suitable piece of property for a house for his mom and he found this one at 232 South Pearl um it's also a vacant isolated u undersized lot it's
27 feet across by um I forget the depth um more narrow requires 50 foot width and we this lot only exists at
27 um ordinance also requires 4500 square feet this undersized lot of 2,686 i'm sorry 2 686
and what's required in the zone thank you so it goes without saying that uh this lot is a challenge and um with that the architect Ed O'Neal was tasked with uh designing a home for this lot that would
be suitable uh for you know the needs of a small family while also respecting the um the existing character of the neighborhood and the zoning standards as much as possible um when we did uh come
here on January 2nd we we presented a proposal that complied with rear and front yard setbacks building height lot coverage at that time the plan also included two
non parking spaces um and um those those spaces would have been in the front yard area so we we heard several comments from uh members of the board and and we took notes um some of the comments were
to reduce the height reduce the size to bring the house closer to even though that it was deemed um maybe more desirable to line up with the other
houses on the street um in doing so the two parking spaces that uh we originally proposed for the front yard area were eliminated and um as a result of that there is no front uh there is no off- streetet parking so that triggers a
variance that we didn't um need before so we noticed for that variance we also noticed for a front yard setback variance that um you know based on the board's comments we move the house up which happens to be in a front yard
setback area so because of that we noticed for a new variance for a front yard setback um and like I said we made substantial modifications to the proposal um we've also reduced the overall floor
area of the home by almost 300 square ft um those of you who were here at the last hearing might also recall the owner of 230 did attend and did voice some
objection in the last day or so i contacted Pat Mena to counsel her and Dera contacted me and um you know they they essentially withdraw their objection but what they asked me to
convey this forward is that we be allowed to keep the same building but slide it a little bit further back seven feet and the reason for that is um property owner view um there's a
window over there and would prefer if the window had a view of so that we would um express that to the board and explain to the board that we would be happy to do that if the board were inclined to have us modify the
plans uh accordingly uh at the same time Mr meta and his client understand that if the board were inclined to approve it the way we've presented it because it does um correspond to the board's um preferences that were expressed the last
hearing so we moved the the house up for that reason if the board were inclined to approve it where we have it located they understand that that's something they have to accept so they're okay with that but we're letting the board know on the record that if you wanted a solution
that would satisfy the neighbor and also worked for us too um we would agree um to a condition that the house be cited 7 ft further from the street than what is shown in front of you today so you're proposing if just for the record you're
proposing if the board isn't so inclined a front setback of 19 19 ft even got it and for there would still be no driveway or
front yard parking of any sort if the house were moved back i just want the board to be perfectly clear on that so no front yard parking why no parking if you're moving it if you're moving the house back don't you give space
yes our our original proposal was to take advantage of the space that we had and put cars in the front yard however um it was expressed by some of the board members that this is not preferred at
all rather yeah see no front parking no parking you know and taking into consideration um I think the common knowledge among all of you was that there is no real parking issue on this street as
well not to have parking very happy to see us comply with that so uh we were glad to do it we didn't allow it to do you know other applicants too the next door neighbor also originally had a complaint about
the uh sideyard setback have they changed their Yeah because uh you know we tried to work with them on that i don't know here i don't see Ed we're missing Ed at the moment but Ed will be able to
explain why um we were unable to to increase the sideyard setbacks uh from an architectural you know you know code standpoint um it became very problematic and it'd be great if you were here i could tell you and you'll
get his testimony on it later but if we narrow the building we lose a veteran so it's a you know even narrowing the building one foot makes a massive difference to the utility of of home but my question was about the neighbor's
original complaint on the sideyard side and it's been withdrawn and the and the purpose of sliding the house back accomplishes what her concern was in the first place because it allows her to
allows whoever's living in the house to look out their kitchen window and see vast space rather than a new neighbor because of where the kitchen window is located in proximity to the front yard
and just for the record how many bedrooms will the house have now and you said no driveway correct um in the ATM letter there was a comment that we should um remove the curb cut and um complete the sidewalk
and that's something the applicant will do mike who's who I know you had said before your mother who's live like are you live going to live there who's going to live there because I know you had said your mother before you know what we'll just swear you in if you could just uh because we're starting over if
uh Mr morales if you could just state your name please jacob Morales and Morales is M O R A L E S okay if you could just raise your hand do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide okay and just before you
answer Miss Hogan's question just you're the owner of the property and how long have you owned it roughly about one year okay um thank you i just was um I just couple question who's who because it said it was your
today i just said it was you it was said it was your family well no it's for my mother it's for your mother well he said family because we're going to have people come over sometimes and Oh yeah okay yeah make it possible is going to be for my Okay and my other question is and I
don't know anything about building square feet and you know all the nuances of it but um I'm just wondering like these lots you had are all like really undersized and stuff and you're being your home for the lot and I know you
said um that you cut off but I I know my daughter just sold a 1490 foot home that had three bedrooms they had three kids she and her husband lived there for like 12 years my thing is I know besides setback everything
it's still like a big house for that lot i And I know you just said that a bedroom gets cut off if you take away something but I'm just wondering why the house couldn't go further to make up the square footage than the side because it is a it's an
odd lot you know it is an odd lot but I'm just saying I know three bedrooms can fit in a lot of the the architect was uh asked to look into doing that but he informed us that narrow any further we lose a
bedroom but um not being able to have the extra bedroom what about going back instead of wide going back like you came in more you know what I mean the side's still the same it came in more i
Why not going back go back more because it looks like a long lot of property oh not more than an hour and a half ago so he he told me he might be close yeah past close right now okay but he'll be
able to answer okay thanks yeah it is important to just reiterate that the the neighbor who was impacted by that sideyard um withdrew and like I said they were
pleased and satisfied with the proposal of sliding the house a little bit further back can you provide testimony on the other neighbor and whether there would be an impact to that neighbor um well I can
you know based on Google images and common I guess evidence that everybody can see and you can testify to that Jacob let me ask you a couple questions about that um so we were just talking about 230 South Pearl Street if you're
if you're looking at the subject property 230 South Pearl Street would that be on the right or the left 230 be on the right bring that mic because when I have to write the Right i don't think this mic is on it's on but
you have to get real close no not you guys there we go that sounds Can we just move over okay so we were just talking about 230 South Pearl Street which was the
neighbor who had previously uh come and and raised a question uh is 230 to the left or the right of the subject if we're looking right at it uh to the right to the right and so the question that was just asked was concerning the
neighbor to the left correct and um as as as for the neighbor to the left um can you tell us about how that property is oriented because uh so there's actually a piece of land that bring that mic there's actually a piece of land that's
actually vacant literally right next to the um the land that I purchased and there's a parking lot business on the other side so it's literally nothing there nothing so it's not going to serve anybody it's just literally an open piece of lot i was actually looking to see if I could purchase that little
piece but I didn't know who's the owner of that little piece they didn't respond when we roofed them you know and uh Kevin just for the record at the last hearing because we're starting over um you did send the uh buy
sale letters to the affected neighbors i did um and those were entered into evidence so we'll mark them in again and I think last time they were A7 now we're going to mark them as A6 and um and and uh they were the buy sell letter saying "Hey will you be willing to buy my property or sell me
some of yours or all of yours?" There's certified letters based on the map and property owners list to each of the adjacent property owners offering the quote sell our lot to them or
alternatively purchase excess land from them and um there were no responses uh at least no serious responses to those uh and just what was the date of those letters if you know off hand september 11th
i can specify sent to Anna George at 68 Hippocot Avenue in Long Branch to DR48 Wallace LLC care of immigrant mortgage company 333 Broad Street sweet 2011 Redbank New
Jersey to 17 November LLC of McCarter and Higgins 48 Dr james Parker Boulevard Red Bank New Jersey and to Mark Allen and Cynthia Allen at 54 James Parker
Boulevard right all right so we'll mark collectively mark them as A6A A6B A6 C and A6D and Shauna you have them in the file i don't know yeah why don't you give us this
do you want copy are these your original are so there no neighbors objecting at this point i don't know if anybody that you're aware of that but I know the the
most affected neighbor and a neighbor who voiced you know strong as I said she was counseledled by Pat and he and I okay so none that you're aware of thank
you are there any trees being removed no trees are being removed and just for the Just the the neighbor that um Pat Mena is representing was that I know she testified was that that
was Anna George yeah Anna George thank you well it looks like there are trees on the lot not for the benefit of those saying forgotten what we talked about the last
time and there are some last night so all right good evening and welcome if you could state your name Wal Jr and business address 65 M Street Red and you're testifying today in your capacity as a licensed architect and
planner okay do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth best knowledge to help you God i do all right and just uh as Kevin indicated for a variety of reasons we started fresh as if the first hearing never happened so you might want to touch base on your
your but you uh just for the record your licenses and certifications are current and up to date and in good standing yes okay no he said no no trees will be removed at all it looks like there's a bunch of trees
there well I'm missing something many trees are in the back corner of the lot they wouldn't be Oh can I can I show you what your map shows yeah I mean it looks like a little bush or something that you're talking about
that's this right here yeah I don't think that's it might be next door yeah he shares the gravel right so this is and this is Google [Music] this this shrub has been removed what
about these trees i think believe those trees are on the neighboring property oh okay yeah it's that remember it's a very thin lot this is That's why I was kind of confused on where it began and where it end yeah that those are on the
rear lot of the lot for that bigger house right okay that makes sense oh okay so this house that's like a bush i guess it bush oh
yes okay okay for the sake of completeness to respond to TN you have a copy of the Sure thank you yeah Mr o'neal there was one of the
board members was concerned about that that you made the building shorter but now there's didn't narrow it any so the setbacks are side setbacks are the same
as You know there's a concern because they're well below what's required yes um in order to make it a three-bedroom house which is my client's desire and the family that's moving into it requirement you need to have two
bedrooms in the back that are next to each other and we have they are less than 10 feet wide roughly 9 and a half by 12 and when you get smaller kind of a difficult to
burn you stack them you're looking at the plans instead of up and down second floor plan and up plans revised You're not instead of like this like that oh you're saying can we turn them 90
degrees sure well you can but then the second floor is bigger than the first floor by quite a bit so you Oh are you saying there's like a can't have If you're going to change the layout of the house the first
floor is going to be impacted as well then so you saying that the second floor should can lever over no I'm just saying you could change I mean if you're worried about making the bedrooms narrower instead of stacking them so
that each becomes narrower put them side by side but then you make the house bigger well yeah yeah yeah it's definitely going to make the house larger you you would make it narrower but larger to accommodate the three bedrooms so the
length would it would be longer well we would have better setbacks on sides i was the one that asked I had said before when you weren't here about the the size of the house because these lots
that you know Jake is buying are small lots putting the house on and saying it was longer but you know I was just saying I told I just said my daughter just sold a,494 square foot home with three bedrooms
it's a very small lot and you know it's small it's just it's more of a you know those old railroad homes you'd say going like that way you know what I'm saying like those but still it's 300 and whatever square feet and it still has
three bedrooms and they had three kids and they just moved from there so I'm just like I just feel like these houses they're very small lots that are purchased and the homes are really big on them on that's that's what's coming
before us yeah but it depends on the lot's configuration if the lot is very narrow right as to the overall the building it's also I think worth noting um that we do comply with your max lot coverage
standards so the idea that the house is too big for the lot and I understand where you're coming from because of the narrowness but it's very difficult to design a house and I think you know Ed can
testify about this um to conform to the narrowness of the line and we're not trying to make we're trying to make it smaller um and and we did more than 10% um but in order for this house to be
utilized in a normal fashion this is what he came up with while still reducing the size of the structure which you know we did think that um this was an important objective um for the board for the neighbors and you know so that's
what uh Mr o'neal was tasked with with doing in between meetings um so it's the best I can answer but it on a narrow lot it's you know that's where the hardship comes in and you know we can provide testimony about hardships but um we're
not trying to make the house bigger and we conform with your lot coverage standards which help control the size of structures on lots and we conform by you know by we're not just under we're we're
under um so I want to make sure that the board you know at least has the opportunity to appreciate that as well um so my fear is that if I take Mr light's suggestion I think we're going to be over the 35%
you couldn't be because you're you're making it narrower while at the same time making it longer so you could have the same overall footprint all due respect that's a little simplistic because the what happens is when you do that the circulation becomes greater and so you automatically add
square footage to the house because you're it's simple that if you have two buildings and they have one entrance here if you do this now you create a hallway to get to the back bedroom and that automatically makes the square footage rise so it's going to be bigger if we
try to stack the rooms as you're saying in this shotgun fashion it's the house is going to get larger in square footage i I can almost guarantee that i have trouble visualizing that maybe because um in my my mind the hallway would be
one side or the other not in the middle it's inherently inefficient from a circulation stand that's why if you go into the buildings like I know they're not residences but hospitals things like that the corridor is always in the middle it's in the middle because that's the most efficient way to double load
they call it double loading the car everyone has a car parking lot pull into a parking lot there's parking spaces on both sides right i'm just trying to come up with a solution that provides better setbacks yes because then it increases lot
coverage and then we're trying to stay under the lot coverage to keep the house within the um the guidelines of the ordinance which is 35% we're at 3 I believe 2% I think we're going to exceed that 3% if we take
that advice I think those guidelines all the other and I I realize you're keeping those guidelines of lock coverage but you you're all over the place with setbacks well the rear setback what's the difference well the
front setback was in response to the board's right class meeting right so that's why we have a front yard setback this year we work the original proposal the front yard requirement and the board thought that we provide
two parking spaces off parking spaces which was also in the ordinance and so we set the building to those standards it was requested for us to look at the at removing the park and moving the building closer to the street which
would be similar to the buildings to the north so we respond we knew that was going to cause two more variances and communicating that was okay because he thought it was
more important to reduce the height of the building which we did and to reduce the size of the building which we did by almost 300 square feet so the variances that are added which you just mentioned were
caused by that discussion when we first applied the only setbacks were the side can I But you didn't improve on those setbacks pardon me you weren't able to improve on those setbacks there's still
there's still 3.3 feet on the sides right but we had we we we had a conforming front yard set and it's a lesser i I just want for clarification we're talking about setbacks
and I think and I thought the only question was about the side setbacks but then Ray it sounded like you had concerned about other setbacks or sides okay because you you said like all over the place and that kind of Okay it's
just the sides yeah I hope you Yeah I have follow question that I obviously I'm looking at the proximity map and a lot of the properties are very narrow yes is this typical three-foot setbacks are there others that have setbacks that's smaller and are there lot next
door has less than three foot size okay so this wouldn't be different no it's it's similar for the for the area day when these houses were built it was really to be able to walk through the house walk from the front to the back without crossing off their neighbor's property which about three to four feet
okay the building code requires at least a three-foot setback in order to have any windows on okay so rather than having two blank walls by going 3.3 feet we can have a certain percentage of the wall windows which we meet that standard
so that's why it's 3.3 not three some other crazy number it's it's a little bit of a of a cushion to not have when things actually built be built too close property where where I was coming from was is it are the setbacks less than others is
is it unusual for the neighborhood and it sounds like no that's typical for a lot of that nature in that neighborhood the only time in the neighborhood when it's greater is when they have a drive where they run back and that's not really everything can I just interrupt though the the house to the right the
house on the north that's got a seven foot setback for your plans is that what you're referring to no on the on the opposite property line it's like probably less than a foot the one facing You mean the one facing the street so the one on Berry so side that's on Berry
two houses that are there that are to the immediate north the first one and the second so if we're looking at your lot to the right yeah so according to your plan it says 7.1 ft
we're referring to the opposite side it's not shown on our frame because it's relating to the opposite side of Freddy South that's the one we're spiritually on top of so I have a question okay
ed what is the um the distance from the last step riser on the adjacent property there's like looks like be like a entrance or side entrance on the adjacent house and then there's um like a little landing and there's two steps down with a railing that I wanted to
know what the distance from that last riser on the staircase exterior staircase would be to the house mr gagno um if I may um just notify the board as to the discussions with uh Mr man's client of that property um my client has
agreed that they are going to reorient those that stoop for that property owner as part of our project um so that those steps are going to land in a direction towards the street in order to alleviate the problem that
looks like you identified okay so um still though what is the distance what would the distance be then from the bottom riser to n the property line well it's it's 0.9 now but of course if you move the stair
it's all the stairs that are in if you move the stair to the front it's going to be probably close to four feet close to what four four feet from the edge of the platform of the student to the property so instead of the steps instead
of the steps walking down the side steps are going to orient now you're walking down towards the street so the long run down it's moving towards the street so he's saying he's changing those steps
to face the street yes because as it is you have to technically trespass well that's what he's getting to so um I mean technically or if you were to put a fence up to delineate the two lots how is the neighbor going to get around that staircase and get to her yard so is that
problem taken care of by virtue of changing the the step and that was an important part of the discussion that I had with Mr meta concerning that yeah i mean I also would be concerned about a sixoot fence running down the property line so close to the house did the neighbor address that has that been
addressed or No she's not concerned with that neither side was concerned with that i mean should we be concerned with that we should be concerned we don't have a fire marshal president is it building to building i'm trying to
do the math seemed like six seven the way you were saying four over on one side is what is he from his um set back the next door neighbor 6.7 is the neighbor and to the house not to the studio no yeah that's what I know building to building like
you know pressing the toothpaste across the Okay so it's 10 ft between which which if you look at the neighborhood have somebody driving a car through there about 10 ft okay and I have a question and it was off of
what we said with the a side side staircase and putting like a bedroom here a bedroom here and a bedroom there what's the difference to make it again narrower and longer if you put the staircase oriented to the side like when
you walk in to the side up there put the bedrooms that way to make it longer you know the house longer not wider do you know what I'm saying that the circulation is going to get longer and it is now so therefore the house is going to get larger the square footage
is going to rise and my concern is that we're going to then eclipse the 35% building coverage regulation which is a far more ownorous variance than a setback
let me ask you a couple questions just so um so I know that um the focus of this conversation has been about those sideard setbacks um if you put on your and Mr o'neal um do we need to qualify him as a planner was that done at the last hearing
yeah i mean you um we're going to do all of that you mentioned architect planner correct and he's been qualified yeah i mean Mr chairman we we've Yeah he's been before us a number of times so we know his qualifications and we will accept his
testimony okay thank you um and as to let's let's think about the negative criteria and you know is there substantial detriment if the uh variance were to be approved uh specifically with respect to not the neighbor we keep
talking about but the neighbor on the other side can we talk about that first sure okay they were to the other side the house faces Dr sparkle Boulevard so it has a very long rear yard that this property so
it's got to be over 50 60 ft to the house so it's it it's a wonderful piece of lawn that this house would look at and what we've tried to do in the design of the house is take advantage of that open space because it's never going to be closed up and it's also the side of
the house that gets the sun all day so if we oriented windows and rooms to get as much sun as possible which makes for a nicer house but also um if you jump into like the Red Bank master plan and things it also is an energy saving device because you can get light into
the house in the winter and that will warm the house that reduces heating costs and we've also put windows on the other side so that there's air that blows completely through so there's through ventilation and the through ventilation reduces cooling costs so
it's one thing we took advantage of look at the product we said besides the fact it was under size it had wonderful orientation and because of that orientation do you think that the benefits substantially outweigh any detriments associated with
the sideyard setback on that side no I I don't think there's any at all and again I think the positive criteria are the issues with the master plan and issues with sustainability and can I just interrupt for one second but we're removing that benefit from the
adjacent property though right are we offsetting your benefit now um isn't it offset by the fact that the adjacent property now is losing that sunlight isn't it they don't have they don't have the right to prohibit any
development of a lot no I mean I'm not saying that but I just think to suggest that there's some environmental benefit by staring at a lawn when the adjacent property is losing that benefit well go ahead i don't think it's a great deal i just don't think it's that
positive an effect the house next door which is much controlled um only has really more windows that are on the south side i think the which would be fairly typical i think the the the municipal land use
concern with that and and where I'm you know the point I'm trying to get out there um is that whether we're showing a 5- foot setback a sixoot setback or a 3.3 foot setback on that lot line makes
no appreciable difference to the property owner um on Dr case Park and Boulevard because of the reasons that he explained so I understand the point but um the negative criteria is about is there a substantial detriment to the
public good or to a surrounding property owner and with all the space between the building that is proposed and the existing building of Dr james Parker um I think the testimony I heard is there's no detriment um there may be a general
detriment to any land being developed anywhere to the surrounding neighbors and you hear that all the time but that's not a detriment that the land use law really uh is concerned with the Law is concerned with this variance lead to a
substantial and the testimony from the planner is that substantial amount of space between those two buildings in the existing whether we conform to your setback requirement or
have a 3.3 uh foot setback really is no appreciable difference to that property owner so the variance itself wouldn't create a substantial detriment um I sum it up correctly yes and and and also remember that if we conform to the
setback side setbacks the lies unbuild which is nothing and that's where that's where our hardship comes from because of the unusual narrowness and the statute specifically says due to unusual topography or narrowness of a
lot and that's in there specifically for these kinds of lots these kinds of ownership situation due to the undersized nature of the lot um and we've satisfied the neighbor on the other side where it is more impactful
yeah well that's what I was talking about i'm not talking about the house on Chase Parker being that that impact but it's really the impact to the adjacent neighbor um who's not here tonight i think with the with with their preference that the house be slid back
closer towards the rear and and the number you know they gave us was 7 ft we're happy to you know stick to that the house will then start we would also be happy to um prohibit fence erection you know on the
property as well if the board were climbed you know I just noticed down the street there it's more of between the two houses like a three and a half foot or 4 foot chain link as compared to a six foot vinyl which I think would be somewhat out of character for that neighborhood um but I don't know how the board feels
about limiting fence height between the two homes um yeah I don't there's an existing chain fence from that runs from the back of the property that's on the neighbor's
property there's an existing chain link fence do do you know how do you know how long that lot's been vacant when I if I look back at my notes from the last meeting um the house was shown at three maps I
could find 1908 1914 and 1922 after that is now again I'm looking at the sandborn tax maps from bygone era but that's pretty all means to see when was there a house on the lot it definitely was
say how big that house was or anything there's nothing no it just says it shows a house there you know the thing I had said too before about putting a smaller one the first house on Berry Street was a small
non-conforming lot that you had to you know wiggle around and do this then you know you go through that and then to buy another small one and then say "Oh it's going to be a hardship again." I kind of question why you buy that and have to go
through it again to see if you know and then saying it's a hardship if you can't build and do whatever but I think I think somehow a smaller house should be able to be in there but I don't know things I have to see uh say is that one of the running trends that's happening
in Red Bank now is a lot of house um lots are being chopped back um and it's creating these undersized very undersized lots um we're seeing it more and more that um the larger lots are now
just being chopped up to be about this same size so we're running we're going to see more issue where the side the lots are becoming under size as we go along are they doing that i'm not creating a
hardship for people know buying a home that I mean it sets off the whole thing they're going to chop them and then they're irregular and then you can't build on them and that's whying sometimes during the subdivision process they do the they create the um building
envelope within it so that it's automatic they don't have to go through the process of um constructing on a undersized lot and having to go before the board because it's already the setback's already there and even though and they're
non-conforming already um I don't know how long ago if this was subdivided um and how long ago was it subdivided again if you want to go back to 1908 say it was subdivided by who knows what
the regulations were in 19 and it's the same size certain the survey whatever it's the same size lot it's not and the two other two houses are there mhm there was one two and there was a third house that went away and so now you have an isolated
undersized lot and and to connect you back to Berry Street attempt to build a house on Berry Street the difference was that Berry Street was wider and shallower so the sideyards were less of an issue because it was smaller but it was wider the big thing there had to do
with the back but the back was facing another back that was on Dr's bar so it wasn't really as much of an issue because their backyard was really big okay so it's really a different context because of that ed what is the um size of the proposed
structure um compared to its neighbor on the right the two houses on the right the scale of the new house compared to those houses that are existing now um they're about a thousand square feet i know 230 is about 1,000 square feet and that house was built i can tell you
what year it was built it's about what square feet uh it's it's nearly 1,000 square feet and the proposed house is how many square feet is um now it's been to 1875 [Music]
so it does seem that you're going to have one of the larger homes on the street with but a small but a lot smaller if you go close closer down to the end of South Pearl there are houses there that are in the 2,000 square foot there's multi family houses there's at least three lot
two family they built as two family houses i'm not saying they're building mult and they're definitely bigger and these same three square yeah bigger but I'm talking about on the size lot other words you have the same size house as a
two family that's on the twice a lot that's probably twice the size of the one that you're proposing i'm not sure i don't think it's that much that much bigger lots are all fairly small again from the last year so I'm
torn um I mean I am a big proponent of single family homes in town um I'm torn between an oversized house on the street um but the fact that the neighbor is okay is compelling to me um whether or
not she's going to have a problem with the resale seems like she's okay with um and then I guess the next issue is precedent of putting these oversized houses on these lots it's an undersized h lot maybe it should be an undersized house seems to make sense but um I'm curious what the rest of the board
thinks but I am somewhat happy about there being a single thing in the house going up can I chime in sure um just speaking what I think I heard are the facts right so the lot's been vacant for over 100 years yes no neighbors are
objecting the setbacks are consistent with some of the other houses on similar kind of lots in the neighborhood there are some houses that are larger yeah see I don't oversized to me to just
push back on a little bit that's a subjective term i'm just comparing with other houses and to me the overriding things are frankly the the points I just made it's it's putting something on vac which
to me is a good thing um I'm thinking the greater good also we haven't talked about people things at all here's a guy who wants to bring his mother into town he loves Red Bank isn't that the kind of situation we want when
we're developing a Red Bank that's just my take and if the only objection is the size of the house to me that's in no way outweighs all the other
points i'm just yeah I like and I'm just thinking why wouldn't we say yes frankly the controlling issue in the town is cover below the cover yeah and that's the other thing I appreciate and I think
everybody does you guys have been real accommodative go reaching out to neighbors and things like that and and the board as well you know lowering the square footage being able to deal with parking you know from my perspective you guys have been um accommodated and good citizens here
so yeah so I I agree with everything you said the only what I was referring to with respect to an oversized house is that we haven't and this what I'm talking about it's literally 80% larger than this neighborhood we have a thousand square foot house directly to its right and now you're proposing a house that's 80% bigger that to me is
oversized that's what I mean by oversized it's not some giggantuan house by any means but it's oversized compared to its neighbor okay that's all I'm saying i do agree that like I said about to me a house I like the idea of a single family i'm just torn with that is with some of these issues to me 1875
square feet is not oversized 232 230 Pearl Street i have it as building description is 25 by 99 so that's 2,475 square ft that's the house that's the house next to 2475
230 South Pearl the house 2475 square feet um the next one on Berry and South [Music] Pearl is
roughly the same size and what was that address that was a 2 28 South Pearl and 230 South Pearl got It's roughly the same size as 247 or
1875 sorry the same size as what 25 by 99 okay okay thank you so it's 247 i think that's the lot that's the lot size they the they did the wrong thing here according to Zyo it's 952
but it's 952 the house on 230 952 square feet got it so if we're You you sent the um buyell letter to
lots three and four on Dr parker's Boulevard you sent the buy sell letters to offer to sell the view yours if they wanted to purchase it miss Lee I sent those letters you sent the letter yes and you got no response i
received a phone call from one of the owners on Dr james Parker Boulevard um I forget his name he spoke for a little while he asked me questions about the land use process and he was interested in uh learning more about the land use process he owns a commercial building
i'm not sure which lot number that was but it's a commercial setup that he had i think maybe it was was a lot more um and he said if I could use it to in intensify my commercial
operation I'd be interested in it and that he never called me back again so apparently he wouldn't be able to utilize the lot to intensify his commercial operation because he would have to purchase well think about used right in there
um so you didn't so you got some response back but you didn't pursue that because it's not you don't want the commercial intensity i I get you I hear you express a little curiosity and he just wanted some free advice pretty much i said you could call me any time if he
has any other property and um you didn't get anything from the corner property but you'd be willing to sell your lot i don't want to sell like I want my mom speaking to the mic please i honestly don't want to deal with selling again
because I had to for street because the um the lady next door said I'm going to take away her sunlight so I you know I felt bad you know she's been living there our life even though there was another house already built there and just knocked it down i was going to build a similar size house that was going to be there but she followed me
and said "No you're gonna take away my sunlight." And now there's nothing there she just has it empty again well I mean again there's there's a lot of pleasure in an empty lot there's a lot of pleasure yeah I agree with you but right now as we speak she uses it as trucks there's trucks parked in a
lot and and I guess just for the record not that this is a substantive thing but just for the record I think Kevin as I recall that lot by virtue of the sale it it's not a separate lot vacant lot anymore it's now merged into that the name one lot correct correct and and if
you recall um when the lady showed up and u you know voiced an interest in purchasing the property she was told that she would have to if she was serious um she would have to get an appraisal done and then present an offer
to us based on that appraisal she did that and uh so she then made us so she hired a lawyer she hired an appraiser they um appraised the property um they showed it to me i found no fault with
the appraisal and I told u my client that it was a reasonable offer and they were ready to to go well we just want to make this one stand on its own so we're trying to get we're trying to get the right proportions for this house on this
lot and you got a lot of house on small lot and yes it's how we live today this we're in New York that'd be a tiny house you know we're talking about but we're not we're in res small town and that street was designed probably with little
cottages we wanted cottages originally they're like turn of the 20th century construction and we're in a different we're in a different era now so um we're just trying to figure out how to get you in and out of your backyard because you don't know what the
neighbors want to do at any point in time my kids already know in an open yard enjoy the space too i mean the three feet where you know you can't get a big lawn mower to the backyard already done a lot of things going there and you
don't see you don't with your skill set you don't see that you can make the house smaller kind of the width direction we made it smaller again almost 300 square feet smaller by reducing the depth and could you talk about how you reduced the
height and changed the the appearance of it well we're already at a tall skinny house you know we're just trying to figure out how to get you to the backyard safely and back in now that somebody puts up a chain link fence and not
a blank fence you know trying to trying to figure that out for you i I also want you to u also recall we were concerned about the height we listened to you too we reduced the height um of the property in addition to reducing the size
well I mean there's a lot going on here we thought we do have neighbors even though they they seem to be quiet that's our job to step up and speak for those who aren't speaking what we do here again she's not here to tell us how satisfied she is she did come and tell
us what she was concerned about and she and she used a minute to let you know how concerned she was so we're just trying to work this out for us because we're obligated to make a decision based on this one
um not with happened with the last one even though it's hard to remove it from recent memory we're we're trying to work on this one so let me let me ask a question what What was the overall size of the
original was it 25 by 44 ft i'm sorry the original The original application what was this the size of the house was 25 by 44 right so I'm sorry 25x 44 and now it's
25 let me check let me check how does that come out to 300 square feet it's 20 by 20 by 44 if I could interject my notes I have 2119 was the square footage and now it's
Yeah but I'm just Those are the numbers i'm I'm just losing i just don't understand if you've only made it four feet shorter times 20 ft that's not the front door rather than having to
stoop outside ejecting that we took space out of the foyer oh so so the house is what's it's imagine a rectangle that has a chunk taken out oh
okay that's what you still have the front but hey you don't have a 4T those four things together i love the fact that we want to put we're not dealing you know with
apartments coming in no parking and and what I do the issue is the size and can it be made to go a little it's never going to conform i know that i do know that that way the lot is but I just still think it there's a way maybe to
get it a little smaller that's my that's what I'm wrestling with but I love the fact that you want to have a single family home on that lot agree with we looked at um the two houses next
door um 228 and 230 one is 972 square ft and the other is just under 1,000 square feet so much smaller houses yes and again not
to speaking to the mic we can't hear you i can't hear you okay not to bel you have to remember the house next door was built could be built 150 years ago i
mean it's a very very different world and when was the last time you designed you were asked to design a house for under a thousand square feet 1920 practice in 1920 but
seriously it's a serious point there's any kind of market 25,000 new construction thousand square feet house no there's nothing and that's why there's
been it's not just even in the United States it's other luckily we only have to think about that yeah we don't think about that but it does bring that that I mean that's a positive thing about developing a lot
ride a relatively um affordable house into town well it's your testimony all done because I I think at this point we could talk about this all night long but at some point we got to make a decision
whether we're going to vote for or against approving this application so may I uh sum up unless Absolutely absolutely i think you have to open it to the public just to Yeah all the TE's but maybe after you go after why don't
you sum up your stuff then I'll ask for comments from the board and the public sure um so I'm going to start by stealing Mr kennedy's thunder because I know what he's going to advise you because I've been up here and watched
him advise you many times and I've read many of his brilliant brilliantly written resolutions um and he's going to tell you all about the Dalmire standard and um and this is from uh Mr kennedy's one of his resolutions um the applicant should be required to carry the burden
of proof as in all other cases as to both the positive and negative criteria now we covered that by explaining the hardship of the narrow lot um the the municipal landing law itself discusses narrow lots as a basis for hardship and
the approval for hardship variance um negative criteria is demonstrated by the fact that uh testimony you heard that the sideyard setback um uh issue that we've been discussing has no bearing on the neighbor uh for Dr james Parker it
does have you know a bearing on the neighbor at 2:30 but we've been able to satisfy her by proposing or by exceeding to her request that we slide the house 7 ft further back that would immediately
um the problems that she felt were associated with sideyard setback issuing her side um and reconfiguring her stoop as well which um corrects a condition that currently exists whereby anybody walking down those steps will be
trespassing on someone else's property once we reconfigure those steps we're correcting you know little bit of a of an issue with that property um the applicant should demonstrate that efforts were made to bring the property into conformity with the zoning ordinance by attempting to acquire
adjacent property or offering to sell the non-conforming property to adjacent owners we've done that um that's in evidence uh submit detailed plans of the proposed house which describes its appearance and prove its compliance with building code you've heard architectural
testimony about that uh the applicant should attempt where applicable to demonstrate compliance with the use sideyard and setback requirements and location of the house among other homes on small tracks with similar frontages we also heard testimony about the neighboring properties other properties
down the street um which have the same distance between buildings as what we're proposing um and uh similar size buildings maybe not immediately next door but very nearby on a very small street um attempt to demonstrate that
the proposed use does not violate any traditional zoning purposes such as light air and open space um I think it could have been argued that with the house pushed up uh the way it's drawn up right now um I think that concern uh
might be reasonable but the fact that uh we and the neighbor uh with Pat Men's involvement um agreed to slide it back that does alleviate the uh one instance where light air and open space could have been called into question by moving
it back you're you're providing air for both property um so Mr kennedy's advice I predict the board to evaluate the testimony to determine whether it should elicit additional
information um you know to your satisfaction you know you know the the the shotgunning of the rooms i think I'm not sure that everybody's on the same page about that but you heard his answer about that and you know he's he's an architect he knows what he's doing he's been accepted as an
expert before this board many times um the board should make specific bindings of fact based on the records for his conclusion consider whether in lie of denying an application it could approve it subject to reasonable conditions which would modify the proposal and obiate or minimize any negative impact
and you've done that um the drawing boarding board we reduce the height we reduce the square footage um we resolved the problem uh with the neighbor and satisfy the neighbor um and so the board
took action sent us on you know on a on an assignment to improve this to um to obby or minimize any negative impacts and we've done it um and finally this is
uh Kevin's uh Kevin Kennedy's resolution remember denial may come out to compensation thus requiring condemnation by the municipality and that's where you get into like regulatory condemnation actions not that you know we anticipate
that at all but that is the kind of the overriding reason for hardship variances in the first place right because the whole idea is land should be utilized land that's not utilized like this land hasn't been for 100 years is
wasted land um and the policy in this state is to utilize land develop land put it to use put housing where you know housing is desperately needed um so you know we're this application
while maybe a little a little bit bigger than what you would ideally wish to see is a serious application probably the most wholesome land use variance application I've ever been involved in
um and you know as Mr harwood said this is kind of what it's all about and it may not be perfect in your eyes but I think it's certainly meritorious it has merit it's good for this town it's great for that property um the only two the
only person that had expressed um objection has been satisfied um and even though the property might be slightly larger than what you wish might see you're not you might not ever find anybody to build that house you have in
mind because that's the market we might get another hand before somebody comes along and they rebuild the 1,00 foot house here you know it hasn't happened so far you know so I think Mr morales's
application is very very worthy of your consideration for approval um and I wish you would act favorably on it thank you can I just one one last question we didn't talk about but there is a current driveway apron there are you going to
remove that and put a curb in a sidewalk yeah the proposal is to remove the apron the curb and sidewalk okay any any other comments by the board i just had one item on my letter that I
wanted to confirm uh page 4 2.3 the AC condenser you had testified um in the prior hearing that you were going to put it in the rear of the adjacent to the deck
yeah base the house that's on doctor's propert are you um putting appropriate screening around it will comply with that thank you any comments from the public on this
application or any questions for any of these gentlemen okay well somebody like to make a motion to either deny this application yeah i just have a procedural question there's six
of us here what would it require for approval and it's not what happens if it's tied tie vote does not pass tai vote is defeated does it defeat it okay thank you and you know Mr chairman can I just make one please a quick legal
um Kevin Assadi was quoting me so I'm going to say he was brilliant no but I was I was quoting the uh judge serpent's uh uh Dalmire case and and Mr assad was 100% correct on the law he referenced that Dalmire case we've referenced it in other resolution other resolutions and I
think the the issue as you all know and the debate's going to come about applying the facts to the law and uh that has to be integrated which is always the case and you'll recall the resolution that we passed earlier tonight we had a big discussion last um
uh last meeting about other relatives but that's we're applying the facts so the case law suggests that we do have to be sensitive and and let the applicant build something because to outright deny under these circumstances
um would be or could be town-to- mount or could expose the town to potential claims for inverse condemnation now remember condemnation is when the town or the state or the county takes your land to make the street wider or make a make a park inverse condemnation is when
uh you basically zone the property into inutility you don't do anything but you make it so that the the applicant can't can't uh develop so again I think the key is and and what the discussion seems to be focusing on is we have to be sensitive to the fact that if they do
what they the law requires them to do the law suggests that we have to let them build something but it clearly says maybe not as big as you want maybe not as tall as they want maybe not as wide maybe not with those those setbacks so those are the things that where the discussion and the debate is and what
you're all going to be talking about and have been talking about is is it uh if can it be improved setbacks or whatever your particular issue is and is it functional to do that is it marketable to do that is it is it buildable to do that um is someone going to live there
to to do that and again I think Mr said you know in these situations it's it's you know very rarely do we have a perfect scenario because a perfect scenario is when someone comes here with a complying lot and and a complying application and uh but you know we want
to get the best case scenario and you've all said and I think you all have the right interest at heart um about hey what can we do so that's the discussion and now again the hard part it's turned over to all of you
well again I think we've about everybody is in favor of something being built on his property i don't think there's any any denying that um my perspective it is just you know we
start allowing oversized buildings on undersized lots all over Redbank and you know we're it's going to be a mess so I don't know that that's my perspective so is anybody like to make a motion to
approve or deny this application i'll make the motion to approve would somebody like to second that no I will second it and which uh may come as a surprise to some of the
members on the board um and the reason is that I feel that as a board we have not all of us but we have many times bent over backwards for commercial de or for developers um all over this town um to build
uh highrises with 30 40 50 100 200 units 400 units right going down by transit couple hundred across from Beravina 30 40 across from the atrium right wall street mechanic street So as much as I do think it's oversized i'm
really thrilled about a single family I wish there were more going up i think you made some adjustments i think it's uh the positive outweighs the negative although I'm not 100% thrilled with it i will second the motion and Mr chairman um I have taken the
liberty of writing down a couple of potential conditions i'll defer to you as to whether anyone needs to read them and then at the if we do read those potential conditions what we've done sometimes in the past it does not have to be done
here but sometimes um you uh if you're so inclined you can ask the applicant do you want to vote tonight so do you want me to read the potential conditions or Sure all right so I'm just going to go through them real quickly because um some of the standard ones compliance
with all the promises commitments and representations the team made tonight compliance with the TNM Associates review memorandum um Jackie any reason that grading and drainage would need to be submitted to your office reviewed and approved uh they should be submitted as
part of the building permit process and as part of building and then afford compliance with affordable housing rules regulations contributions um Kevin there's usually a 24-month time frame as to when um the uh if the application is
approved and when you get a building permit or any agreed upon extension and outside compliance with outside approvals with the caveat standard caveat to the extent the nature of the application or the nature of the relief materially changes as a result of those outside approvals you you would need uh
to come back um now some of these I'm I might be overstepping my bounds i I took a look at what we talked about last time so last time we talked about attic not being utilized as a bedroom is that something that we need to reference here
the attic is not a bedroom okay and then um uh we had talked about last time um and and Mr o'neal brought it up tonight window panes and things like that so do we have any Jackie special regulations as long as it's over three feet um I
mean we don't have to make any special regulations about because you couldn't have a window if it was a less than a three-foot setback so I mean are we just saying compliance with building and construction code okay and uh no further expansion intensification absent uh further
approval of the board sidewalks and curbs we had last time talked about planting some small trees and shrubs is is that on the table right now do we have to worry about that or no no okay um and then um Jackie last time
there was some discussion I wrote down on my notes about again it's not part of tonight's hearing but about the wall has to be fire rated is that anything that was testimony from the architect the first time leading to the setback
what What Yeah can Can you list the variances that were Yes also what happens is if you're less than 5T you have to fire rate the wing which means that the materials that you use on the side walls will have to be fired okay and and then speaking of
that with the smaller setbacks that are proposed are there any fire suppression systems that we have to talk about or is that just building a construction that that would be building okay and then um the air conditioning condenser is located in a compliant location
um and screening that air conditioning condenser perpetually now last time I at least wrote down I don't know this discussion do we require utilities to be underground or is that just something that modern world does or we we don't
have we don't regulate that okay um the uh pressed curb will be closed um now Mr mr chairman I think we just need for the record at the outset of the meeting Kevin Assadi started saying "Hey if you want I can move this house back 7 ft to
have a front setback of 19 ft." Is that what the motioner and seconder are looking for i would say yes okay and um um I don't know why I had this but concrete pavers for the walkway we had discussed that last time is that nothing we have to worry about
[Music] uh checking Don't that's a question for them okay was that Did I make that up last time or was that a discussion point it was but they're not showing anything way right now okay so no walkway so we can do that
and basement uh would not be utilized as living space correct yeah correct um uh no driveway no front yard parking um remove the curb cut and complete sidewalk um uh to municipal standards I
guess we say and then uh the the no tree removal the height is 26 feet and um Kevin you might want to add the staircase neighbor needs to be rotated
towards okay so now I'm going to say uh here it is good timing so per your conversation with Mr menor you're going to reconstruct the stoop so that the steps will uh land or be directed to uh towards the street and um Parker
Boulevard parker Boulevard and then we also the steps will orient towards Parker Boulevard and you're going to change the steps so as to not require the trespass when you when you leave and then Jackie I'd
written something down here now it's 9 ft we'll be four feet what was that about was that the platform for the stair the Yeah was.9 ft 0.9 ft i'm sorry and my decimal four four feet okay and
that's not the size that's a distance from the property line distance from the steps to the property line correct which property line the next door neighbor steps that are going to be rearrated
okay and then I guess we should clarify we had some discussion about not allowing a fence along the side of the home or regulating the type or size is that part of the motion from my point of view I think a sixoot fence there would
be a negative attribute for the neighbors um so I would suggest I I agree um a standard you know nothing taller than the standard chain link that is already there and the only other correction Kevin I think you said that he was going to change the steps to face
Parker B James Park Boulevard but it's currently facing James Parker so it's going to face Pearl they're going to face Pearl steps to face Pearl got it and then um so the but the fence it's nothing larger than a what foot chain
link fence four four foot and that's just between the the um the two homes okay and chairman we're getting there okay um reconfigure the stoops okay and remove
the existing apron and put in the curb so uh Kevin are those conditions in addition to our general standard conditions acceptable to you yes all right and then Mr chairman I think you wanted a quick recap and maybe I would defer to Kevin uh as to the
specific variances that are that are needed um unless Jackie you know them offhand put you on the spot the variances uh to parking varants two required versus zero proposed
correct and I believe it's just a sideyard setback front yard and the front yard so sideyard 3T is proposed and 3.25 ft
versus 10 3.3 or 3.25 is it which one is it 3 foot 3 in or 3 all right 3.3 versus 10 ft's required correct and then the front yard setback what is required 25 and
what is proposed 19 19 19 okay and um and then of course the plot area um basically um so were there any other variances Mr um O'Neal
no I can okay so I mean if if uh Kevin are you looking for a vote tonight again that's actually only a question i mean you guys can vote if you want doesn't doesn't depend on the
applicant's answer to that we're waiting the And thanks for indulging me for uh getting all that list out that'll help uh with the the resolution mr kennedy uh is it possible to take straw poll i mean we don't really take straw polls
but I mean people have commented and if if the chairman wants he can uh ask for for comments but um further comments but we don't have to do that but it's up to the chair well anybody have comments on how
they're feeling about this you looking at me i'll comment i think that we are we are trying to get this house built on this lot we don't want u Mr o'neal working another
hundred years but uh I I feel like we're not getting we need downsize of this house i think it's just being shifted like a monopoly building up and down the lot i don't think you're getting you're really downsizing i think you just make it a
little bit smaller a little more accommodating um and as a straw boat goes I don't I can't see supporting it without you i said you got a three-story house two and a half story
house it's a big house on that block i'm not comfortable with it i think I think I'm the same way i definitely there should be a single family house on that property but again
on on lots that are undersized to have a house this big is not something I think we're looking to do in town is put these big houses on these small lots i'm not really in favor of it
i know i Well I'm not in favor of the size definitely but I I'm struggling because I agree very much with Paul about you know a single family and everybody's saying this a single family home and there's been a lot of building
here and I'd much rather see a single family home but I just feel it can be taken down i still think it's just really big i mean are you even going to be able to plant anything around the house do any I mean it's just going to
be like a house sitting a big house sitting on this little little lot and I'm I'm struggling with that part of it still needs a lot coverage standards you know
it there's there's enough lot coverage left over 68% of the lot is available for lawn space gardening flowers bushes you name it it it compies with that
like the other members of the committee have said we would love to see a single family home developed on this lot i too struggle with the size of the current application i think it's too big strong ball so would you like us to
take a vote at this time i'll leave it up to you i mean if it's up to me I'll say we'll vote on it um I'm Um making a house smaller how much more smaller would you
like us to because we we tried doing that the first time when we first came we tried you know you guys expressed that you wanted it to be smaller you made it smaller this time and um just to get a better idea of exactly what you're thinking yeah you know can I try to
answer that real quick so um the your neighbor house the two houses next to you are,000 square feet and you're at 1850 i mean you can't get a 1500 foot house there i mean can you not build very similar house to what's right next door to you or what's
adjacent to or is that just not going to work for you i haven't been in the houses next door but I live not very far from here in what was a 1500 foot house it's 1500 now it was probably 1,200 when I bought
and it was a twobedroom with very small bedroom house it had a kitchen and a living room that was also a dining room one bathroom yeah when you get down to this that size house that's what you're getting think about an oversized
one-bedroom apartment or a very small two-bedroom apartment that's 1,000 square feet your ordinance doesn't allow an apartment bedrooms to be under a thousand that's correct yeah m was saying like more like 1500 what does
1500 get you on that lot you know is it more scale compared to your neighbors what's going to happen is that you're not going to have two bedrooms more than two bedroom and so the question I would propose is how big of how big of variance is it
to make the attic a bedroom which is something that is legal from building codes and everything else it's a local ordinance perspective but if you allow that to happen we could get three we could make the house narrower because we wouldn't be added burden of
trying to put three bedrooms on the second floor well we understand that and maybe it's that three-bedroom house that goes on that lot i have two bedrooms when was the last time you designed a
two-bedroom house new construction never never not in not one in four years so what you you know and I don't mean to be combative and I hope I'm not coming off that combative you asked for a straw poll you got a
straw pole yes we're trying you know maybe you need to go back and have your client rethink it and then come back to us well we did that once and we reduced it ask us to vote the client no no we said "Let's move it back seven feet."
We're right back where we were you know were reduced by 300 square feet the height was reduced by several feet the bulk and shape of the house was modified to reduce the appearance of bulk we've we've done all the things that you asked for but it's arbitrary to say "Well
1,800's too much but 1,500 that's the gold standard." It's very arbitrary and it's an impossible market but you can build a house for 1,500 with three bedrooms i know I know that it may not exist
not not according to on narrow lots though on on narrow lots go if you go longer mr mass is saying maybe it's not a two and I'm sorry but if you'll allow me you're saying that maybe a two-bedroom house doesn't go there well
it's a vacant lot an architect with 40 years experience who you you know very well is telling you that not once in his 40-year career has he been asked to design a two-bedroom house so who is going to
come along you all said that you want a single family house on this lot you all said it and you also heard that nobody has ever asked this architect with all this experience in Redbank to design a two-bedroom house so you've also heard
that you can't design a three-bedroom house on this lot making it more narrow than what it already is so what you're saying is that the only kind of application that you would approve for this lot is an application that will
never come so you're going to have this lot that will never be utilized that is an inverse condemnation but evidence is on the record and you know I do urge the board to consider that and look like I said before the 300 square feet to you up
there really doesn't mean anything it doesn't mean a lot it's an arbitrary number but to the family and the people that would live in a house to have 300 more square feet you all know what that's like and to sit up here and say "Well we're not
going to let some future family have 300 extra square feet of living space when it's the only proposed development you've had for this lot it's to me I I can't make sense of it."
M just I got one question for you oh sure what What's the average size of a threebedroom apartment and an apartment building 13-500 square feet 12 maybe but I don't
think so I just want to make one other point here if we would agree to not finish the attic we're 1500 ft so when I said 1500 I I I wasn't trying to set a gold standard I think Mr i
wasn't trying to set a gold standard by any means i think the point was that you have two neighboring properties that have that families live in right so to suggest that no one no family's going to move in well there's families living in here for 100 years nobody's going to build it no one's building it that
remains to be seen but I don't know how long the property was on the market for so that's I don't want to go down that road necessarily because we don't know the opportunity that's been how long has it been an opportunity to build it i mean he bought it anyway i don't think we need to delve into that i think he
would have designed one in his career if there was a market that kind of house anywhere as a new construction yeah but I'll go back to to not to interrupt but I'll go back to you know I know there's no gold standard but you're saying well houses are 1500 square feet well if you
take away the attic the size of the house is 1500 square feet which are all over town if you take away the attic the height of the house is reduced seriously no I mean
take it take away as a finished attic so if you if you say "Well it's not a finished attic it's just the attic where you you know Christmas decorations." Um then the house is 1500 square feet of usable space that's what it is that's
why this idea of making room smaller becomes more and more difficult because the first and second floors together are not any any way oversized in my opinion the rooms are if you look at the drawings the rooms are not large at all a dining room or a dining area
has to be a certain size to fit a table a bedroom has to be a certain size to fit the normal bedroom furniture master bedroom has to be slightly larger because there's two people there bathrooms are regulated by socks there's almost no circulation in the
building so you can't really make it smaller until you start to eliminate rooms and I think the rooms we have are the typical rooms anybody would have in a three-bedroom house but if you That's my opinion but again
if if there's a number well if you if you don't have an attic you don't need a stairway going up there and that gives you more space and I I'm I'm just lost well in other words in the in the in the way the square footage is founded the
finished attic is the square don't finish the attic you reduce the size [Music] now it's a 15 so you're just talking about counting of the square footage just saying that
the in the resolution the attic is going to remain unfinished but the size of the building would be exactly the same exactly exactly the same the same so that you know when you talk about 18 to500 and I know 1500 is not a magic number but it's about the attic which is
going to exist anyway it's not going to change the bulk of the house it's just going to be occupied and have windows that conform to the code and that's it and the stair becomes a real stairs on a pull down stair mr mr o'neal could I ask you
um have you designed other homes for on on lots this size or smaller yes okay and and some of you can Okay and like and and what what size lots if you can if you remember i mean it's a tough question they're usually
undersized from they're less than a quarter acre which is about 10,000 square feet but they usually are not this narrow and deep this lot is is much deeper than other houses I've designed
on but it's the narrowness that's the issue even Berry Street as Miss Hogan pointed out was a house that was smaller but it was because it could be wider a layout allowed the program to fit the
program rooms to fit without you know without an issue and it didn't have to be as big but the problem here is it's narrow so to get bedrooms on the second floor that's really what Taylor's a dog so Mr mr chairman
what I would just sort of say just uh uh to just uh go against one thing my friend Kevin Assadi said so I don't think that this is inverse condemnation i mean I know and he's can think uh and and reasonable minds can differ on that but what I want to say is in the context
of a variance and in the context of the quasi judicial nature that we have to act all relevant things matter so the size of the lot matters the size of the home matters the nature and extent of the variance relief matters the compat compatibility with the neighborhood
matters the context matters uh the setbacks matter i mean when you're sometimes Jackie I agree sometimes when fires happen with very small setbacks it's easy for fires to spread to nearby setbacks so that all matters the construction code requirements matter so
I think everything you know I and I'm 100% fine if you all vote to approve it or if you don't approve it or if you approve it with conditions but I just think that just for the record I I respectfully don't think that this is an automatic case that if if it doesn't
approve that we've already we we've basically um committed it to an inverse condemnation but that's just my my opinion okay so you want us to vote yes yes
okay roll ray Mass no for the reasons I stated okay eileen Hogan i'm going to say no all right sharon Lee no ben Slike no
paul Kagnos uh yes eugene Horwitz yes okay application okay motion to return motion to adjourn i'll second all in favor yes i