Please rise to salute the flag. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> All right. All right. All right. Roll call. Uh, Brian >> present. >> Joe >> here. >> Thomas >> here. >> Wilson >> present. >> Bernardo
>> here. >> Uh, Amelia is not present tonight and Nicholas Rudolph is present. Um, next up is a review and approval of the meeting minutes from last time. Any additions, uh, changes?
>> Make a motion to approve. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Okay. All right. So, first up is a request for a certificate of compliance
uh 3us Avenue D file number 0610790. Uh the applicant is the Cavalo uh Corporation. I know Rick couldn't be here. Uh but Tom, you were able to walk this down and if you wouldn't mind speaking briefly uh
and letting the other commissioners know uh how things went. >> Yeah, Joe Joe and I both walked it. Um it's built per plans. Uh the asbuilt seem accurate. Ground is stabilized. Looks good. >> Okay. >> Thank you. If you wouldn't mind. Uh
>> yes. My name is Mars Zapar 78 Mil Street Middleton Mass. I'm here for three Agnes. We had the site visit and the project consists into a single family home housed on pilots and I'd be happy to answer any questions
you know. >> Um I don't have any questions uh at this time. Do any of the other commissioners have any questions regarding the project or the completion of this project? >> Nope. Um thank you. Uh seeing how seeing no
questions, I would call for a motion to approve the uh certificate of compliance. >> I'll make a motion to approve the certificate of compliance. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Thank you, Mario. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Have a good night.
>> All right. Next up is a notice of intent 195 American Legion Highway. This is a demolition uh on-site and construction of a six-story storage facility. Uh the DP file is not available. Uh the applicant is Ed Dherty.
>> How you doing? If you could um turn on the mic, state your name. >> Uh Matthew Kaso with Be Associates on behalf of the applicant uh Chem's Development Corp and Ed Dohy. I do have a presentation like to just plug in and set up if we have uh Cord here if you
want to get that. Um you can bring it over to your laptop. Did you see it? All right. Again, Matthew Casa. Um, with me today also is Larry Beals from our office and Molly McGillicuy. Um, and Vin
Ki of the owner of the property. Uh just as an update, we did I checked this morning. There is a D file number listed U 0610849. Um and the only comment that was listed was that the um revenue was pending the
acceptance of the fee. We did check with um our banking and it says the fee has cleared, but you know, sure it's just something that's going on through D's process, but we'll uh check on that later. Uh what I'd like to talk to you about just set up a kind of a brief agenda. So
I'll just go through the summary of the permitting of the overall project, go through the existing conditions of the property, uh historic images of the site throughout the years, and then obviously the proposed development site plan, the grading and the storm water erosion uh control measures, utility plan, and then
we also have some building renderings. So you can see uh what that final product would look like. And then obviously ending with compliance with the eight interests of the wetlands protection act. All right. So, obviously we're here for the notice of intent and seeking an order of conditions. We'd filed that a
couple weeks ago. There was an order of resource area delineation and ORAD that was issued in 2023. Um, back when we first began this project um with the years and the state extension on that doesn't expire until 2028 of August. Um,
we are uh also going before the city council. The city council did issue a special permit for the land use as a warehouse or self- storage facility that was issued in late of 2023 uh for the original development. Um since then a new developer has taken
over. So that's why we haven't kind of been around since uh those few years. Um since then we're also now filing again with the um city council for a special permit for increased height. Uh previously we had uh plans for a
five-story uh building at about 60 feet. Uh we're now seeking uh 70 ft and six stories. Uh we're also going uh before the board of appeals for a variance for floor area ratio as you can tell and shortly. It's a very small lot. Um so we
are you know doing a number of stories in order to make the the market work for what we're trying to to do here. We did receive variances for the original fivestory development for minimum parking, the maximum floor area ratio, and a minimum lot area. We did receive
those variances um in 2023, late of 2023, and then we extended those variances um late last year. Other permits that we're seeking, we are going for site plan review commission. Uh we did file that earlier this week and we'll be meeting with uh city staff uh next
Tuesday morning. Um we're pending a preliminary meeting with Mass DOT to confirm that a permit's required, but we are expecting a vehicle access permit um as American Legion Highway is a stateowned road. Uh then obviously we'll have the EPA construction general permit
um due to the over an acre of disturbance on the site. So uh property is located obviously on American Legion Highway. It's just off and kind of behind the big Amazon facility, the prior Neco facility. Um,
River Street just above the property and then Broadway over towards the left there. All developed area um around the site with the exception of the wetland resource areas that um abut to the back. So, here's a blowup of that. An aerial from June of 2024.
The bordering vegetated wetlands are highlighted in red there. the large Amazon facility just behind our property. Um and then uh Rumy Marsh Academy is directly across the street from our property. This is the um gas
station. Um and then there's a Millennium Auto Parts that does detailing for vehicles and there's also a garage that services vehicles on the property. Uh the site is located inside the FEMA flood plane um which is the area highlighted in blue. So the entire
property is located within that uh flood plane. This is a coastal um flood zone uh just because the flood plane extends all the way from the ocean across. Um the ele there is an elevation set to zone AE. So the elevation of the flood
um is 11 on our site. Just some site photos. Um top left is as you're coming down American Legion Highway Amazon would be kind of uh right behind you. the entrance just behind me on the right and you're looking into the site. Um, currently the the property is operated as the fueling station on the
back side of that is also used as kind of a contractor's yard. Uh, U-Haul stores some vehicles and then it's just a mix of different contractors who leave equipment um, park their vehicles before going out the next day. So, you can see some of those vehicles materials stockpiles. Um, a lot of those are just
around the edge of the overall development. Um, and kind of right along that wetland resource boundary that I'll show you in a second. Uh, then obviously the fueling station, there's a few parking spaces up towards the front of the site.
So, the O-ad plan, which was obviously done in 2023, um, the wetland resource area is the black line highlighted by the green and then that 100 foot buffer zone that extends onto the property is that light shade of green there. And then as I mentioned the FEMA flood plane takes the
entire property to everywhere inside that blue line in the bottom lefthand corner is the boundary of FEMA there. So, I'll do my best to highlight on the screen here, but generally the existing disturbance, which is paved roads up towards or paved uh pavement up towards
the front around the fueling station around the um buildings, that's all paved. And then up towards out towards the back, there's about a um turn the laser pointer on here. Once you get past just about this line is where the contractor's yard kind of begins. It's
fenced in uh gated. All that area is compacted gravel. Um relatively poor condition. There's some ponding that goes on. Um as I mentioned, the stock piles at all around the property. Some of them slightly extend over the property line. Um but that
wetland resource area is you know um fragmitees are throughout the whole thing. So it's a pretty hard line um around that that back side of the property. And then over on the left, it's vegetated before it gets off to um the backside there.
So, historic images, just a 1938 site wasn't developed at all. This is all um marsh wetlands associated with kind of the Atlantic and everything that had come over American Legion Highway. You can see just on the left side there. 1971, the site was starting to get
developed. You can see the gas station has been in the um auto repair facility and then even the kind of fence or back portion of the property there. Um you're starting to get development to push into the back a little bit farther there as
well. That's 71 up once you get into about 86. um the large Nekco building, I believe it was Neco at the time, >> uh was added in there and then um the site uh just kind of kept growing to the full extent of the overall property line
by about that time. Still the gas station, still um Vinsado and the contractor kind of lay down area out towards the back. 1995, similar condition. um wetlands in the back. Everything's still developed out towards the front and then obviously
that neco building is still there. 2001 similar condition. I will point out that although it is a wetland resource area in the back um it's actually mowed um I think by you know kind of some mowers on on floating wheels but that is um actively kind of disturbed um and
cleared every once in a while. And you can see it again kind of up towards the top right of that. Um, but June 2024, most recent aerial that we could get, still the same kind of general condition where everything's developed all the way out to that property line.
So, existing conditions on the site, um, everything is kind of topography wise is sloping from American Legion out towards the back. Um, American Legion highways about elevation 9 and 10. As I mentioned, flood zone is elevation 11, which puts that whole property inside the flood zone. And then right out
towards the back rear of that property line where all those blue arrows are pointing, that's about elevation six. Um, that drainage channel and the wetlands around elevation one out towards the back of the property. It's a little bit higher on the the boundary on the left side of the screen there. Um, as I mentioned, the front area is paved.
The rest is is compacted gravel. No real significant landscaping, especially on the property. There's some scrub trees that are just between the pavement and the gravel in the back. And then there's some trees mostly out towards out outside of the property line on the left and then just your you know typical
wetland plantings uh to the direct back of the site and the right side of the site there. Uh there is no formal storm water management system on the property. Everything just kind of sheet flows off the back of the property and that includes the fueling area out towards the front. There are some drains that
are inside of the building. Um but there are no catch basins. Um there's no water quality systems, no infiltration. You know, this site, as I mentioned, was developed well before those regulations uh were were in place. So, everything kind of sheet flows off to the back and
directly into those wetland resource areas, including anything that's dripping off the trucks in the back, anything that's stockpiled in the back. So, existing soils on the site, uh there was a subsurface um investigation done by Whit Stone Associates back in 2022.
uh that's included in your storm water management report that was included with the application. Four borings, three test pits were conducted. Generally, it it obviously from the historic aerials, everything was historically filled uh over the wetlands. So those borings and
test pits um consisted of a loose to medium dense silty sand with gravel, poorly graded sand, demolition debris, organics, and blast rock. That was that fill that was brought in over the wetlands. underneath that is under lane by organic layer consisting of black
fibrous pete that's depths to 11 and 20 and that's important as I get into uh the proposed foundation of the building underneath that organic pete is the marine clay layer clay layer that depths to about 50 ft and then refusal about 76
to 84 depending on where it is at likely a glacial till is what uh the geotech had identified it as estimated seasonal high groundwater they had mentioned it at or near the ground surface, which makes sense for the elevation of the wetlands, especially towards the back. They noted water about 5 ft down and
some of the borings up towards the front. Uh but for the most part, um everything's expected to be, you know, at or near the ground surface and fluctuates, um with seasonal high, flooding, and and you know, different natural conditions.
A little bit more into the soil. So, there was some environmental testing done. There's a phase one environmental site assessment done by RU Associates in 2017. It noted a number of historic um and recorded uh conditions on the site. Most of those being um some leaking um
oil from hydraulic lifts inside the building as well as um some releases of gasoline uh during fill or replacement of some of the tanks. All of those listed on the right side of that screen have been closed out. And then obviously there's the historic ones which just
generally say that there were releases um um but those were closed out as well. Some of those even the same day they did identify what's called a business environmental risk. That's the possible historic filling which is that unknown condition of the fill material since it
was brought in prior to 1950s and the overall regulations that uh controlled that. So with those um document documented conditions out there, they needed to do a phase two limited um subsurface um assessment. That's
underway still, but we did get some uh responses back on those conditions. Those found concentrations exceeding reportable concentrations which included heavy metals, lead, chromium, zinc, some semivolitile organic compounds. I'll skip those words there, but you know, um
some things in the ground that really shouldn't be there. So the site is not appropriate uh for use as a residence playground or any type of recreational uh facility. They'll likely go under an AU well once that phasing process is complete and all that uh work is done
with mass D um through the proper documentation. So, that'll play into, as I described, the the drainage system on the site and that we're not infiltrating any storm water because we don't want to really move around any of that material and that everything that we're going to bring in to the site to bring um the
building up above the flood plane, that's all going to be clean fill material is generally going to cap that um historic fill, contaminated fill in place. So, the proposed development, good stuff here. So proposed site plan, uh the
building is 24,295 square footprint. Um right now we're doing it at the six stories. Um one of the items I did want to kind of bring up here is that we are proposing it and it's included in your plan set as six stories. Um if we are unable to get that
special permit uh or variance, um we would you know hope that the commission would allow us to still maintain approval if we are still granted one um to construct a development at five stories. Um but for right now we're we're continuing with the six-story development just so everything between
every department is consistent. Um overall the building will be about 135,000 gross square feet across those six stories. Uh it has 13 parking spaces loading spaces. Some of those are inside the building or there's an interior drive-thru that I kind of highlight
right through the middle there. And then there's a few spaces up towards the front. And then we've put a number of spaces around the perimeter of the site of the building because there'll be kind of roll up garage style units around that back perimeter where you can see that light gray. That's a concrete apron that surrounds that. So, it's a 24 foot
wide uh batuminous access drive around the whole building. 9 foot wide concrete parking/loading apron directly next to the building. Overall, the development is going to be a reduction in uh impervious area. That's about a 18,000 square feet, about 26% reduction in
pvious area across the property. And we're going to increase open space um by about 18,000 square feet. So all that green area that you can see, that's all going to be conservation wildlife mix and number of plantings. There'll be a dense evergreen screen along American Legion Highway. That was one of the
things that was identified during our prior city council work. And then the back side of the site where you can see that light gray uh pink line being the property line that's going to be a rip wrap slope, a boulder slope since we are in the coastal flood zone um and subject
to uh wave action, believe it or not. Um we've pro provided these large boulders that kind of absorb that. That's a 2:1 slope. So not only does it allow us to meet existing grade um that that rip wrap will provide some protection to that slope as well.
Um, so the building will be pile supported. As as I mentioned, there's a layer of organic matter. Then you have marine clay. So your typical um spread footing foundation isn't going to work on a property like this. So there'll be those increased costs to drive piles all the way down to that glacial till and
refusal layer uh by 70 80 feet below existing grade there. Um they mentioned the dense evergreen screed proposed plantings about 16 total trees 28 shrubs and that conservation and wildlife mix around the site. We are also proposing a chainlink fence around the entire
property or at least the property uh the front kind of side that I'm highlighting here. There'll be gates at either entry for security purposes. It'll be a nice architectural uh metal um fence along the frontage, but then it'll transition to a chain link fence around the back.
We've changed that to a chain link fence to help prevent any windb blown trash and debris from entering off into the wetlands. Currently, there is a decent amount of trash and debris that's kind of flown off the site, the abuing parcels and American Legion Highway. Get into that shortly, but um we have
committed through the city council and we'll commit with the commission that we will do uh trash cleanup around our property and into those wetlands um to to really, you know, be a good neighbor and clean those resource areas up. Uh we are also proposing no snow dumping
signage and uh and provided a snow storage plan on our operation and maintenance uh manual. So that's no snow dumping signage will be provided um around the kind of rear perimeter of the site especially where it drops off directly to those resource areas. We don't want anyone dumping any snow
that's filled with you know oil or or you know heavy volumes of salt uh into those wetlands. So no snow dumping signs are placed about 30 or so feet on center. So it'll it'll provide a good um you know uh sign for for anyone driving
around there. Wall pack lighting u we've done around the perimeter of the building since it's just about that 24 and 9 ft wide. Those wall packs will provide enough light to light shine on the roadway and access into the building but none of that light will spill over the property line or into those wetland
resource areas. Um and I mentioned we are proposing to remove that trash and debris on site in the bedding parcels. proposed grading and storm water improvement. As I mentioned, the clean fill is being imported to raise the building above the FEMA elevation. Um,
with uh existing American Legion highway about elevation 10 at a proposed curb cut, we are proposing a finished floor elevation of 12. So, that ends up being about 6 or 7 ft of fill around the back side of the site and a few feet as you move, you know, up towards the front. All that's going to be clean, imported
fill, structural fill to support uh the building as well of the pavement, especially with that layer of pete well below grade that you know there's concern about that settling as well. As I mentioned, there's that rip wrap boulder slope around the whole back side of the property. 26% reduction in
impervious surface. Um and then for the storm water management system, we are going to be doing obviously a much improved water quality uh system. We're going to have about 85% TSS removal. uh through the use of hydrodnamic separators from the catch basins. So
catch basins will capture the water deep sump some hooded catch basins. Um then that flows into a water quality unit before it flows into a detention system on the site to retain that water and uh release it at the same rate and volumes that are existing today. Um as I
mentioned we're not proposing any infiltration on the site um as there is uh contaminants um in those existing grades uh below uh erosion and sediment sedimentation control. Your typical measures obviously silt fence silt sock around the
perimeter of the site highlighted in yellow on the plan. Um inlet protection on all of our catch basins. We've identified temporary um stockpile areas and material stockpile areas for equipment up towards the front of the site outside of that 100 uh foot buffer.
Then we've also done temporary um sediment basins out towards the back of the site that can be utilized during construction and during those fills to make sure that none of that water prior to stabilization is is running off and getting out into the wetland. So that um
basin will have a um a level spread or I'm sorry we'll have a perforated riser wrapped in stone will pull out some of that sediment before it discharges to a rip wrap spillway and level spreader to slowly release that clean water uh back off site. Concrete wash outs obviously
um provided as well just to make sure that that's not being dumped into the ground or anywhere off site. Uh we will have daily site inspections uh conducted by the contractor. Uh that's in addition to the to the SWIP inspections and reporting that will go along with EPA
construction general permit. We do have an elaborate erosion control notes that are included in our project plan set that includes everything winter conditions um to overall erosion control sequencing throughout construction and post construction and obviously an elaborate operation and maintenance plan
to support the development as well. proposed utility plan. You know, your typical uh utility services. The building does have services um to it right now. So, we will be having a, you know, sanitary sewer connection. We are going to move an existing uh sewer
manhole that runs through an existing sewer easement that's in the back of the property. We're going to move that manhole to provide better access to the city uh for cleaning and inspections. And then we'll connect into that. There'll be a oil water separator due to the drive-thru location within the
building that'll remove any of those oils prior to getting into the sanitary uh sewer system. And then your typical electric telecom connections through an overhead riser with a transformer and then a gas service connection to a main that's out in American Legion Highway.
This is a proposed rendering of the building. Disregard the name. It's being noted as climate control self storage. That's just in response to our prior building that was named American Legion Self Storage, which uh the city council had asked us to do a little something different. Once there's, you know, a known tenant and the building goes up,
we'll come up with something different. But what we've done and why I'm showing this is it's a very nice architectural lookout. Um Jordan Architects, um the developments architect has spent a lot of time on this. They've looked at the abuing parcels, including uh the Romany Marsh Academy across the street to kind
of mimic some of that um design feature. So, you'll have this kind of eyebrow lift over the front with a large amount of um of windows to kind of break up that building. And then just, you know, obviously with with what you guys are looking to approve here, I've put in the eight
interests of the wetlands protection act and what we've done to comply with those. You know, number one, the protection of public and private water supplies. We have no negative impact on that at all. The overall development redevelopment will act as a significant improvement to the protection of that water supply. um through our storm water
BMPs, the overall system um where there is not one in place right now that meets all uh standards and then a complete erosion sedimentation control plan, long-term operation and maintenance plan and then obviously that EPA um uh permit throughout construction. groundwater
supply same same components you know the water quality that in the storm water system will be an overall significant improvement upon existing conditions right now the decrease in imperous area and the added vegetation will also help to support that groundwater supply and
and provide clean water uh back into that flood control we're not increase any any rate of volume of runoff from the property um there is no reduction in flood storage capacity although we are inside the flood zone This is a coastal flood zone. So, um you can't mitigate
against the ocean. So, there is no flood compensatory flood storage required for any um coastal flood zones. And then these are pretty quick here. Storm damage prevention. Obviously, that storm storm water management system will help to alleviate that. And then the
operation and maintenance plan and sedimentation control uh during construction and then after construction will prevent against any of that prevention of pollution. EPA construction general permits um swip inspections throughout. And then as I mentioned that fence around the property
and the snow storage um plans and signs that will prevent any windblown trash or anything dumped off into the wetlands. Land containing shellfish and protection of fisheries not applicable on this site and wildlife habitat. There is no certified vernal pools within 100 ft.
Those were done through the ORAD process confirmed. And there is no natural heritage or estimated priority habitat, rare endangered species uh in or around the property. That is all I have for you tonight. So, I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.
>> Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Um, one of the questions I had, you said you were going to be raising the grade, and I'd just be curious, how much I don't know why I missed that, or if I, it wasn't said, but how much are you raising it? >> Uh, it'll be about 7 feet in the back of
the property. Um, about one or two feet up towards American Legion Highway. I think overall earthwork is about 8,000 cubic yards of fill that's brought in. And that's taking away the selects of your gravels, your pavements, the void
space um from uh the detention system. >> And that would be the reason that you would have that rip wrap back there to have that natural grading to come up to the fill that you're putting in. >> Correct. We could do it with a 2:1 vegetated slope. Um but with the coastal
flood zone and the potential for wave action there, those those large boulders, I think their minimum stone size is about 100 pounds. So, there's some pretty beefy boulders that'll help to stabilize that against anything. >> Getting you out of the flood plane certainly helps too. >> Yes. Yep. Yeah, of course.
>> Yep. Um, anyways, uh, any other commissioners have some questions? >> Mr. Chair, >> go ahead. >> If I may, couple of things. Uh, would the change in elevation uh, floors from 5 to 6 affect any of the pilings uh, or
the foundation? They'll still need to go down as they'll still need to go down as deep as they're going. Um I don't know for certain if they'll change the size of them at all. My guess is not. Um so I there'll still
need to be piles all the way down to to bedrock or that glacial till >> but the design will be the same. >> Yes, generally it'll be the same. Yep. >> Another question. This is just a look something caught my eye. I thought I saw something about a gasoline spill, but I
think it said a date of two 2009 2990. It should have been 1990, I assume. >> Yes. >> Uh, was that gasoline or oil? >> Yeah, probably gasoline. I think Vin's confirming behind me, but I believe that
yeah, that'd be gasoline. most of the everything that happened was small gasoline leaks during um maintenance or the replacement of the tanks. So yes, I would say gasoline to that comment. >> And my last question, so I'm going to
call what's back there a creek if you don't mind. >> Sure. >> Um so you intend to clean all the way up and into that area because there is debris in there. There's uh demolition material and stuff, I think. And then
after that, you're going to have a fence, >> correct? >> And it's no longer your responsibility to clean back there. Um uh will there be access for the city uh openings in that back u fence if they if they so need to
go back there? >> Not in the back fence. The slope off of our curb line will be too steep to really put any equipment down. It's a 2:1 slope, 3:1. So, you could kind of walk down it, but there will be a path up towards the front of the site that you can get around that fence, you know,
just prior to that gate um that the city can can get down there with. I expect during our site plan review process, they'll they'll look into that as well. >> It looks like there's an area on the south side of the property where it starts curving uh where there's no rip um rip wrap,
unless I'm mistaken from the drawing. I'm looking at the the side over here. >> Yeah. Yeah. All the way in that corner. >> Once you get past our slope, it it's pretty much flat down there. And that's inside of that 10-ft sewer easement that the city has uh rights to. So, they
should be able to to navigate through that easement to to get out towards the back if they need. But yeah, but yes, we are committed to removing all that trash and debris all the way out to that that drainage channel or creek. >> So, just to kind of piggy back off of
what you're saying about removing all the trash and debris. Um, obviously the property just based upon even your slide of how polluted it is that it's not fit for human beings to live on the property. Um, how much work will be actually done in excavating some of the
dirt or top layers that are clearly the most polluted? Um, is that something that's going to take priority of removing that fill and replacing that with something else or are you removing a lot of it? I was trying to get an idea of just because it's obviously it's a polluted pit of a piece of property.
It's not not hurting anyone's feelings here saying that for anyone who's driven by there over the last 20 years. Um, I'm just kind of getting an idea of what you plan on doing for that once the building and that everything is taken down. >> Sure. Um so that's going to be identified as you move through that
phase 2 environmental process uh and DPS um cleanup conditions and all of that. I think what what we would expect is is that for the most part all the material will stay out on site. So existing pavement, the gravel um will just be
kind of mixed up, compacted and then capped in place. um any export of any of that um you know dirty fill material would be a different um level of of you know permitting and additional cost to do that. So typically with something of
of this nature they'll just leave that in place and cap it. >> And then just kind of follow up on what he was asking before Commissioner Laval was about you're gonna put up the fence which is great obviously but um I'm thinking not about how it looks day one. And I'm thinking about it looks, you
know, year five with Doritos, bags pressed up against it from the wind and everything. Um, is there anything that you have in place for cleaning that area around it? Because I'm worried in 5 years or 10 years that area is going to look as disgusting as it does today will
look like that later on. I mean, it's going to look beautiful when you're done day one, but I'm thinking about long-term vision of that area. Yes, the long-term um operation maintenance plan has a schedule for trash cleanup. So, you know, that'll be on record and and
will be enforced. So, I think that would be the requirement that that makes somebody go out there and not only clean the trash against uh the fence, but anywhere else on the property. >> And do you have a national brand that will be running it, or is it still up in the air? >> It's still up in the air.
>> Okay. And do you One last question, sorry. Do you know, let's just say everything gets approved. Do you know how long of a process it'll be for building the actual land when it would be constructed? >> Uh, it' be relatively soon. Um, as soon as they get approvals, they'd be looking uh to to get construction started as
soon as possible. I think currently, you know, assuming that we can get everything wrapped up before the end of this year, they'll be into construction next year. >> Would that shut down part of American Legion Highway or would that all be done on site without having to shut down any of the two lanes?
Uh to my knowledge, I don't think anything will have to be shut down. There's very light work that happens actually within the roadway other than just tying in the curbs and installing a new curb where we're closing off an existing curb cut. So, I don't think there would be any significant impacts to American Legion Highway.
>> Thank you. >> A couple from me. You said you're uh not changing the volume of storage on site for coastal flooding. >> Yes. How is that possible if you're raised in the sight 7 ft?
>> I So with a coastal storm um flood plane, you know, you can't mitigate against um what's the best way to say this. Really, the wetland protection act doesn't require any compensatory flood storage for um impacts inside of a
coastal flood zone. It's basically that it's it's the ocean. So, you can't really mitigate against the overall, you know, ocean coming in. If I fill up this area, it's not going to have an overall impact on the flood storage because it's such a massive volume of water that
would be impacting the, you know, the property. And somebody well done on in a different state could do the same thing. And it just with with an ocean, it's just a different kind of ball game, I guess. So I think unluckily for you, the next uh people on the agenda have got me
deep into research on uh compensatory storage. So I tend to disagree with you based on on their application. Um what about the riverfront? Uh not a riverfront. Um that's just been classified as a drainage channel. That's
a constructed drainage channel. Um that was reviewed through that overhead process a few years ago. So it's just bordering vegetated wetlands. So, no riverfront on the property. >> Okay. Um, but yeah, I I think I would need more about the raising the site 7
ft and and not decreasing the amount of volume you can store on site. I I disagree. >> Okay. I can get some more documentation to support that if you'd like >> because it's not just so Amazon has to deal with that flooding. If you're
raising your side seven feet or the neighborhood next door, >> it wouldn't it wouldn't change that flood that flood boundary. >> Okay. Just have a question about um wildlife is impacted by the reflected glass. They
cannot perceive glass as you and I we can do and that contributes to bird mortality. I saw in the picture that reflected glass uh is is there anything we can do about it?
That's something a concern for me >> like putting a treatment on it so that they can see it a little better. >> Yeah. So so they they one of the big contributors of the wildlife decrease in around the world is the amount of blast that is reflective. They just they don't perceive as we do. >> Sure.
>> So that's something that is kind of concern. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> I can speak with our architects um about seeing any other options on that. Um it is just glass along the front American Legion highway side where it's all
developed area, very minimal trees where the school is around the whole back and the and the rear the sides of the property. Uh there is no, you know, big glass facads there. So >> I I I I do understand >> it's very open space and a lot of trees
where they can create so it can be a impact on on the wildlife. So that's something I would like to see if that can be changed or on the other conditions that that part can be I don't know how much we can do but that's something I would like you to consider
that that is being will be impacted. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? One quick one. Uh just for the record, there's no underground oil or gas uh tanks that had to be removed. I Nobody ever mentioned that. Assuming that there was a a gas
station, etc., etc. That's all been cleared out. >> Uh no, the gas station is still operating right now. Um those tanks will be removed. All the proper processes performed um uh once that happens. I think the current um deal is is um
Vincanti still owns the property. If pending all approvals necessary um then the whole site would be demolished and redeveloped and ownership may change hands at that time. But everything on site would be um demolished, cleaned up. The tanks would
all be removed um filled back in with clean fill. So all that would would happen. I have another question to follow that up. Is any of the property under MCP um compliance? Do they do they have to meet any of that? Do they have test wells
that they have to test every 5 years? Is any of the property under that? >> I'm not 100% sure. Let me get back to you on that one. I do know there are monitoring wells on the property. They were put in um for some of those prior
releases that were eventually closed out. Mhm. >> So, I don't I don't know exactly if anything's still I don't believe anything's still open on the site, but there are wells that are still out there. >> Okay. Um, seeing as how you're still seeking a
variance with the building commission with this, um, and we have still have some questions about, um, compensatory storage, raising the rate of the site, the treatment to the windows for the birds. Um, I was, if you'd be willing,
I'd like to continue this until September and then we can get a really good handle on everything that's happening. Uh, it's definitely a little bit, especially where you are and where you're constructing this, uh, a little intricate and I'd like to make sure that we have enough time to take all things
into consideration, please. >> Sure, that would be acceptable to us. >> Excellent. So, we'll we'll continue this till September and um hopefully we can get some questions answered about the site uh raising and a few others. But thank you very much for your time.
>> Great. Thank you all for your time. >> All right. Next up, last but not least, notice of intents for 190 VFW Parkway, D file number 0610846, construction of the River High School. applicant is the city of Rivier.
Excuse me. While while Claire is um setting up here, I'm just going to quickly introduce myself. Brian Den uh one high street. I work with Left Field. We are the onest project manager for the high school project. And um wanted to thank you in advance for your time and your
time last month. Um we wanted to focus tonight on um some of the main components of um the wetlands protection act namely in terms of handling of storm water and flood water. Um we'd like to run through a bit of a presentation and
then if there's any detailed questions on those matters or matters outside of that I can get back up and um and we can sort of MC. We've got a lot of the team here with us depending on what questions we have. Uh so in the meantime I'm going to turn it over to Claire um from LEC and ultimately uh niche civil engineer
on the project. Thanks. All right. Uh for the record, Claire Hogabone, wetland scientist with LEC Environmental Consultants. Uh we're representing the applicant the city of River for the notice of intent application. Uh before I jump into a recorded video that uh Chanel Jackson,
professional engineer from NICH prepared, um I did just want to sort of bring the commission members back up to speed on sort of the history of our project team being before the commission um and what sort of got us here to this meeting today. So, uh, about a year and
a half ago, February 2024, uh, LEC submitted an ANRAD application with the Conservation Commission requesting the, uh, confirmation of wetland resource area boundaries, uh, throughout the property, uh, including a confirmation of sort of the breakdown of the 100-year
flood plane within our site with bordering land subject to flooding reaching up to elevation 4.55 and land subject to coastal storm flowage reaching between 4.56 six and elevation 11 or 12 depending where you are on the site. Uh that was peer-reviewed by uh
another professional wetland scientist and an OAD was issued by the conservation commission uh June of 2024. Now, with those uh confirmed wetland boundaries, uh the project team uh shortly thereafter came to the commission in
August of 2024 to informally present the pro uh the proposed project uh and gain some feedback on the project and notably on all of the mitigation that the project team was incorporating into the design um with respect to how it could
offset the uh proposed filling of the isolated wetland within the dog racetrack. and that is uh only locally jurisdictional under your ordinance. Uh so that is why we were coming to the commission at that time in addition to introducing the project uh at that point
um to gain that feedback and guide us into further refining that design. Uh following that in January of this year, uh the project team submitted uh phase one notice of intent to uh request
the order of conditions to uh demolish existing foundations and pavement at the project site in preparation for the notice of intent that's before the commission today. Um that order of conditions was issued in uh March of
2025 and uh the notice of intent before the commission was uh submitted on May 21st uh with us uh presenting the meeting and opening at the June 10th meeting uh last or I'm sorry the July 10th meeting last month. Um at that
meeting we went through a very robust discussion and presentation and understandably the commission um requested more time to digest it. We requested a continuence um and since then have been going through some
specific questions with commission members trying to refine our presentation tonight to uh accurately address a lot of the concerns and questions that have been coming into our emails. Um, so with that, uh, Chanel Jackson, like I said earlier, uh,
professional engineer with NICH initially didn't expect to be here tonight, so she prepared a recorded, uh, presentation to present this evening. Um, but of course, she did make it tonight. She felt it was important to come and she very kindly uh, cut a
vacation short to be here to uh, answer any questions for the commission members uh, after this presentation. So, with that, I'm just going to hit play. This is about 20 minutes start to finish. Um, and we just felt even with her here tonight, it's a very concise
presentation and um, we just felt like it was a good one to share with everybody. So, with that, I will press play and Hello everyone. My name is Chanel Jackson. I'm a PE and a senior water resources engineer at Niche Engineering.
I am working on the new River High School and helped design the storm water management system along with a big team of people, but specifically David Conway, my project manager, who is also a PE. This is the agenda we'll be going over today. It's quite a big presentation, so
I just wanted to give you an idea of where we're headed. We are going to start by reviewing some of the project's existing conditions and then we'll introduce you to the proposed design, the proposed conditions of the site, and then we're going to look at flooding and storm water in two different pieces. So,
we'll first start with some of the day-to-day storm water events, some of just the typical rainfalls and how we've designed a storm water management system to capture and convey that runoff. Um within that section, we'll talk about flow rates and volumes leaving the site as well as our planned water quality
treatment for that storm water. And then the second half of the presentation, we will talk about the bigger storm events, extreme weather, flooding, when the oceans flowing overland, how our site, River High School, will fair, and how we've designed it to fair.
Looking at the project's existing conditions, this is where we started. So the red line is the extent of the project. We've got the eastern county ditch running through the project. If you can follow my cursor, just right through the middle. Um the land use, the
existing site is heavily asphalt. It's a lot of impervious area. About 21 acres of existing impervious if you count up all of the building foundations and the pavement that's on site. There is existing landscaping as well. There's the interior of the old dog track which
is currently an isolated vegetated wetland. Um and then just some surrounding peripheral landscaping about 12 acres. So in total we're looking at 33 and 1/2 acres with the majority of it being existing impervious pavement.
So this is a pretty big project and to help visually aid you have some existing and proposed sidebysides throughout this presentation. On the existing on the left side of the screen we have the existing site which we were just talking about and then on the right is your first look at the proposed site. So
we've got a building up at elevation 19 with a subsurface parking garage. It's not really subsurface. It's open on the majority of sides to allow for storm water flood waters to move through and out of the project. Um, we've also got two lowerlying sports fields that act
like flood planes with they're they're at elevation three. So, it helps just create positive flow toward the eastern county ditch to help mimic some of those existing conditions and a tennis court, compensatory flood storage, few other things.
We started by analyzing the existing site by looking at the subcatchments and where the water is currently flowing to. So the majority of the site storm water hits the pavement and runs to the eastern county ditch or flows overland to the eastern county ditch. That would be DPA on this figure. The red arrow at
the top of the screen leaving the project site towards Shamut Street is representative of two 30-inch box coververts that or just regular culverts that leave the project site and convey the storm water below the neighborhood and toward Rumny Marsh which is our
eventual discharge location. In the existing condition, there's also an isolated vegetated wetland which acts as its own subcatchment. So, DPB and that just collects localized runoff from the existing landscaping that's surrounding the old dock track.
The first thing we did to analyze a site this large was do area takeoffs. So, we got a feel for how much impervious is on site, how much pvious is on site like we have just showed. And then we collected test bits. We need to better understand what type of soils were on site, where groundwater was at. We did 20 test pits
that were collected by soil exploration in 1222, so December 2022. Um, from those results, we were able to deduct that due to the soils on site, granular fill, pete, organic silt, and clay, it was not a good candidate for infiltration. Also because the
groundwater elevation was at elevation 2 around 2 um and most of the site is at elevation 4. So within 2 ft of the surface we were experiencing groundwater. Per code we would need at least 2 ft of separation from any type of infiltration basin or bio retention.
The bottom of that two groundwater. So that's how we started our storm water design was knowing that due to the existing soils on site. We would classify them as HSGD soils with a very low infiltration rate of.17 in per hour, there was just insufficient separation
and it was not a reliable use for storm water management on this site. Here's our proposed design. So this gets a bit granular. This PDF here or this image of the project site is very in the weeds. We broke out all of the areas by
different surface types to just understand how we were changing the site and how to properly account for that in our calculations. So you can see in the blue we've got the new building. In the lighter blue we have compensatory storage areas for some of our bigger flood events that we'll talk about a
little bit later. We've got fields. We've got some of the parking areas in red. And all in all, our total proposed impervious is about 14 1/2 acres. and our proposed pvious is close to 19 acres.
The way this stacks up, if you compare the two, if we compare the proposed design and the existing design, we have a significant increase in pvious area within the proposed design. Because there's so much pavement in the existing design, we are taking so much of that out. We're taking over 7 acres of
imperous area out and turning that into vegetated areas. This is honestly the biggest part of our storm water system is recreating some of the existing conditions in like pre-existing. So we the most resilient design we can make is to add grasses and add more vegetation
to help either storm water move slowly toward the eastern county ditch or to just mimic some of those undeveloped conditions. So you can see here our vegetated areas increase by nearly an acre and a half. Our fields are about 5 acres in total and those also can take
in water very quickly and slow it down as it discharges it. So total we have an increase in pvious areas by about 6 and 1/2 acres our proposed subcatchment. So if you recall with our existing subcatchments we did have two. We had DPA which went
to the eastern county ditch and DPB which flu which um flowed to the isolated vegetated wetland. But because we do not have an isolated vegetated wetland in this condition, everything is flowing to the eastern county ditch. So we're mimicking all of those same
conditions and using those conditions to calculate our flow rates and our volumes to make sure that we are not sending any excess water to any surrounding properties. Um, we're maintaining the two 30-in culverts at the end of the site at the end of the eastern county ditch and sending our storm water
overland or through new head walls along the eastern county ditch. This is a side-by-side comparison. Like I was talking about earlier, we do collapse the subcatchments into one. Everything is going to the eastern county ditch in this situation, but actually less water is going to the
eastern county ditch at a much lower rate, which we will discuss next. Another side by side just to orient you to see how our existing conditions largely pavement turn into vegetated conditions
in our proposed state. So for our proposed site analysis, we did a very similar process to the existing site analysis. We did area takeoffs for the entire project site and then we looked at our local reg regulations to make sure that our storm water management system was designed to
reduce the proposed volume of storm water leaving the site as well as slow it down. Um to do that we look at different storm events. So we look at the 2-year, the 10-year, the 25, and the 100red-year 24-hour storm events. Those each have a different type of rainfall
associated with them. I believe the 100redyear is about uh 7 1/2 in. So modeling seven and a half inches of rainfall on our site, how is it leaving, at what volume is it leaving, and how quickly is it leaving? We also looked at some of our future storm events, as well
as met some of our water quality goals through treatment. Those goals would be 80% TSS removal and 44% pre-treatment for that. This table shows our storm water flow rates and volumes in the proposed
design. So, as I was saying, our proposed design had to mimic or reduce volumes and flow rates to the eastern county ditch. Most importantly, because our design first and foremost was to positively affect this property by greening it and also not negatively
impacting our neighbors. We are not sending any excess storm water to neighbors. We are not sending it off any quicker or sending any more volume. We are reducing the volume and we are reducing the speed of the water leaving the site. As you can see here, the total runoff leaving those two coverts at the
end of the eastern county ditch. In the existing condition, our numbers are about 75 124 cubic feet per second. But as you can see in the bright red flow rates in the proposed condition, they are all significantly lower than the existing condition. When we do the math,
the proposed design decreases the flow rates by nearly 40%. Looking at it from a volutric standpoint, these um same idea but in volume. So we have six cubic yards of or
sorry 6 acre feet of runoff leaving the site in the proposed condition versus in the existing condition nearly seven and that's about a 10% reduction in volume leaving the project site. These are also very conservative numbers because we did not take credit for any of the storm water recycling that the project is
proposing, which would be reusing some of the storm water that hits the roof and irrigates the landscaping. We're not including that. So, these are more conservative numbers for the proposed. If we were to include that, our proposed numbers would be even lower and would show an even lower reduction.
Now, for water quality treatment, we have a few different treatment trains across this site. It is a very big site and we had to get creative because a lot of it is very lowlying and because we can't rely on infiltration to do our treatment that's necessary before discharging to the eastern county ditch.
So what you see here we have different waterheds broken up in the table to the left. Um the colors correspond with some of the pictures on the right. So the red areas are either treated by deep sump and hooded catch basins that go to water quality structures which are really just
like filtration devices before discharging to the eastern county ditch. Um we have filter systems which are proprietary filtration systems really like a wetland in a box. So the soil medium within a concrete box that's lined. So none of these will rely on
infiltration. These lined boxes will have a soil section that treats the storm water before discharging. And we also have water quality swailes that collect the water and then discharge the outfall. Moving on. So, we've been talking a lot about our day-to-day storm water events,
the typical 24-hour rainfall event, but this site is particularly creative in that we needed to learn how to model um very, very large extreme weather storm events. This is a low-lying site in a flood zone and we know that our storm water design needs
to keep people safe and needs to keep people dry. Um, we know that the river, the city of River master plan is looking to use the River High School as a safe haven for emergency storm events to keep people safe and to use it as a community center. So, our design keeps people
above the flood water. To do that, to start that entire story, we needed to look at the existing flood plane on site. So when we have that big 100-year storm event, that extreme weather event, how far do the flood waters extend into the existing conditions? So as you can
see here, the limits of this called um titled in a report bordering land subject to flooding. We niche engineering compiled this study in March 2024 and determined the extent of what we understand to be the flooding on site. An OAD was issued confirming this
boundary in June 2024. We use this information to understand how much compensatory storage we needed to provide. So we know that in the existing condition we needed to provide as much storage for flood water in the existing or in the proposed condition as the existing condition. So this
compensatory storage figure shows just that. To study compensatory storage, we looked at it from a per elevation strata. So from 0 to 1 how much storage is allowed in the existing condition. So if we look at this table to the left which is a little small I'll walk you
through it. Um you see the range interval which is the elevation. So 0 to 0.99 0 to 1 1 2 and then the existing storage. So if we look at 0 to.99 at the existing site there is currently 30 cubic yards of storage between those
elevations. In our proposed design we are providing 53. So we are either meeting or exceeding. We are exceeding all of the different elevations but this is how we made sure we were. Um the last column is the excess storage created. And I think this is the most important
column where you see at every elevation we are providing more space for flood waters to stay on our site or to be on our site which would displace flood waters from neighbors and actually come and store on our site um in very meaningful ways that will eventually
drain to the eastern county ditch. In total we are providing 4,100 cubic yards of additional storage created for these flood waters. This is an exciting analysis of how we modeled the flood waters within a regional context.
>> Just wanted to pause for a moment. Um Dave uh Conway from Niche Engineering >> just so a quick clarification because this has been a a a area of confusion and even kind of noticed it with the the previous
applicant the the compensatory storage and the bordering land subject to flooding. So last two slides you saw before this one I'm going to put the storm in context. Those are that's associated with an inland in inland
flooding. So if we were to get 8 inches of rain in 24 hours with no storm surge that's when you would see that flooding up to the 4.55. So basically the the the exit of the eastern county ditch those two 30-inch
conduits. This is what the ORAD we we did with you folks a while back. Act as a restriction. The water would be held back on our site up to elevation 4.55. This next part is
ocean flooding. So this is a hurricane. So the part I just described is no hurricane, no storm surge, eight inches of rain and absence of any storm surge. And the water leaving the site can't, you know, it's like the old sum of the tunnel. It can't make it through in time, so it backs up on our site up to
elevation 4.6 4.55. These animations you're going to see are associated with ocean flooding. Category 3 hurricane comes um and and overwhelms the tide gates and the uh tracks of
bubble. So I I don't want to mess that up. So I don't press I don't know how to get to I don't know if I can get to the so if we're looking at the city of Rier where does the flood wing start? How does it reach our site? When does it
reach our site? These are the questions we were asking and this is how we look to solve it. So things to know as I play this video which is an animation of floodwaters um as the surge elevations rise by foot. You can see the river beach boulevard
acting as a seaw wall almost keeping the ocean out. Romney Marsh is starting to fill and inundate but it still hasn't reached our site yet because we've got operating tide gates at elevation 9. However, the tide gates are over topped. flood waters do reach our site either overland or through underground box
culverts and we see massive flooding which is this is the existing condition. So this is what would happen today in an extreme event. The arrows represent flow paths of water and now what we're seeing after we've filled the site up we're showing how flood waters would recede in the same way. So at elevation 9 flood
waters are starting to clear up on site. They're moving overland. They're moving underground and flood waters continue to recede. So, it just pauses for about a minute. So, I'm going to shift forward about 30 seconds and it will resume with the
proposed flood storage animation in just a few minute uh seconds, not minutes. We modeled the same idea for the proposed conditions. So how we did this was we imported the surface that we had created that shows the elevation of the proposed design. We put it into the
context of the existing river topography and we looked at flood waters and how they would move similarly to the existing conditions. So everything will look the same up until elevation 9 because those tide gates are still operating. They're still keeping water back in Rumny Marsh. We still have the
seaw wall of Vervier Beach Boulevard keeping the ocean from reaching our site from the east. But as we hit nine, we see the same idea. We see the storm water, the flood waters reach our site overland and underground. But most importantly, we see that the building
because it's at elevation 19. And I'm going to pause it here. Because the building is at elevation 19 in the proposed design, that means we are still 6 ft above the nearest flood waters. So, we have clearance. People will be dry in the livable spaces. The building looks
blue here because there is underground parking that allows the flood waters to move in below the school and move back out through the fields and overland. Um, this is really important. Our goal is to keep people safe and dry. So, the building being up a little hard to see here, but the building is accessible and
dry. And most importantly, the roads are also up. So, where we connect to VFW, we're also at a higher elevation to stay accessible during big flood events. Similarly to the existing flood waters are moving away from the site now.
The flooding continues to recede. Our flood water in the proposed design moves overland into the eastern county ditch and slowly back out the culverts all the way to Romney Marsh. So, this does pause again for another minute before uh Chanel's closing uh
statement with one more slide. So, I'm just going to skip forward 30 seconds and the next slide should begin momentarily. And as you can see, we are we are just rounding the bend at the end. And to close, I'll bring us all back to our rendered site plan just to really
emphasize how much greening we're doing to the site and how mindfully we've really put things together so they all work in tandem to support a storm water design that allows for those smaller storm events to be collected and conveyed to the eastern county ditch and also provides really meaningful flow
paths for some of the bigger flooding events to flood into our site to flood meaningfully around our site in ways that was intentionally designed and then to recede in similar ways uh to really keep our critical infrastructure safe. Critical infrastructure being utilities,
keeping our children safe um and above board and allowing for this school to operate in the ways that the city of River intended, which is to create a a dry, safe space that's above flood waters even in some of the projected stormfall events. So, thank you so much
for your time. If you have any questions, please reach out to David Conway or myself at Nich Engineering. Thank you. Bye. >> All right. So, with that, uh, luckily Chanel and David Conway are both here from Niche Engineering. So, uh, with
that, I appreciate the commission and members of the audience, uh, taking in that presentation. I'm ready to pass it to the commission to sort of discuss and, uh, ask any questions that you have. Sounds good. Thank you very
much. Uh, so you have all this green space and water hits the site from a rain event and it hasn't made it into the storm water management system stored on the site. Where does the water move? Does it move
to the eastern county ditch and how fast where does the surface water move and how fast does it move to the ditch? That's something I'm curious to know because you have two feet of of space. It's a lot of compensatory storage considering how much acreage you have.
Um, but I'd be curious where is it going to move and and how fast is it going to move? >> Want to take that? >> Is that just going to flow right back into the ditch or >> So, in a standard storm event, couple inches of rain, the site will act just
like any other site. the water will move across the site. The exact times of concentration is probably because we're decreasing the rate so much, we've probably um moved I can pull the exact number out, but the existing time of concentration is probably in the order
of 25 minutes. That means it takes a drop of water 25 minutes to get from the farthest hydraulic the farthest point to the eastern county ditch. We probably double that. So we slow it down, but it doesn't really stay stay in any way stored through the on the site. It moves
through the site just at a much slower rate and there's less of it because there's more pvious area. >> Okay. Um, any other questions? >> Mr. Chairman, I I wonder if we could I
could refer back to one of the slides that I was we were shown when it showed the compensatory storage. Uh according to this chart, if I'm reading it right, the compensatory storage is increased where the building
is. >> Yes. >> And h how is that possible if there's a building in a place where there was a dog track with with uh ground that was meant to leech the water through so they wouldn't be running in a in a mud
puddle. So where the where the building will be, it's a podium style building with the with with empty space under it. So the the the green you see on the right is the space below the first the first occupied
floors, the garage. Um that area is a little bit higher on the site. It'll be excavated out, the foundation built, the slab created, um columns, and then the occupied building above that space. Um, we actually have for clarity is this the
>> the site sections that we >> Yeah, they're towards the end. >> I think they're toward the end. >> We added them to that. >> So, with our BLSF being elevation 4.55 and the garage being elevation four, we still have about a half a foot of flood
waters that can move through the building below the BLSF elevation. That's why you're seeing storage because the slab is lower than the than the flood elevation itself. So this section here gives you somewhat of an idea of how the parking garage act grade with
open. So I can you see my cursor? No, you cannot. So the >> Yeah, the the hatch part is the occupied part of the building with the I think those are little cars in there. >> Yep. The little cars at the bottom are at elevation four. Our BLSF elevation is elevation 4.55. So we still have that
half foot of storage of flood waters that that's why it's showing us compensatory storage because it is providing volume available for flood waters to move in up to that elevation. >> And and again just in context the 4.55 flood elevation that we keep referring
to in the compensatory storage is associated with a a storm that is 8 in of rain in 24 hours that doesn't provide a storm surge. So, it's it's a well I I won't qualify the event, but it's I
would think be somewhat unique. >> How do you plan on keeping the underneath the parking area dry? If the groundwater is at in between two and four typically, how do you plan on no groundwater getting?
>> So, the foundation will be waterproofed, right? >> Yes. Um because it is a garage um there'll be you know it's it's a big area right there'll be area drains in it. Now remember it's covered so you're not getting rain on it. The only water that outside of a flood event the only
water that this garage will see will be um snow melt or some maybe windb blown rain around the edges or something like that. But there will be area drains uh building code. Those area drains need to go through oil gas separators and into the sanitary system.
So on a day-to-day basis, it will work like any other um podium style building with the the area drains and and you know you design it so you you're not picking up excess water or rain that you know burden the store the source system
>> Mr. Okay. >> So if in this park uh this parking garage um let's say it gets flooded um is there any emergency plan to do that? I need to evacuate. >> Yeah.
>> Can you consider something like that? >> Yes. It's a great question. >> So um one of the consultants on the project that's not here is doing a flood mitigation survey for the project. They'll stay on board throughout construction uh to ensure that uh
through the public bidding process uh all these design elements remain intact and they will be writing um a flood specific and storm specific operations manual um for the city for the school district. So any forecasted events that
might trigger flooding to the degree that uh you see it getting here or any forecasted events like David mentioned an 8 in rainstorm in a short amount of time. Um there'll be an operations manual of what does that mean? Does that mean that uh the school can function?
Does that mean nobody can park under it? Does that mean there's no classes that day? Etc. So, um there'll also be a um evacuation plan for vehicles, etc. But generally speaking, um we have a company that's going to be providing a pretty
comprehensive every scenario that that we and you can think of. Uh there'll be a written plan for that's shared with first responders, police, school, city maintenance folks, etc. >> Good. Can we bring up something that I
mentioned that on the Zoom meeting about uh the uh functioning of that eastern county ditch past the perimeter of the uh building? You you recall I was concerned that all of this is uh depending upon that a lot
of it is depending upon that eastern county ditch functioning not in a 100redyear flood but on a on a normal or an excessive flu rain area and whether or not as a city building and the city
is responsible for this whether or not there'd be a contingency plan to keep access to that eastern county ditch all the way to the end of the rum mash. So, we know that it's functioning and will do the job that it's supposed to do.
>> Yes, Joe, thank you for pointing that out because I recall you mentioned that to me and that you brought it up even at the previous meeting and I misunderstood what you were asking at the meeting. Um, and I think that's something that the contingency plan that Brian was just explaining that a consultant is
preparing for the school itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, Brian, but they are also going to be looking at the eastern county ditch itself all the way downstream and providing recommendations to the city for future maintenance. Uh while it will be somewhat separated from the school maintenance itself, they're
going to be providing that in order to protect the school and surrounding areas. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. I I would add that, you know, by virtue of this being a large project with the school building committee, um we're lucky to have some of the city engineers
that have been working with us for years. I know um Chris is one, he's here, Chris Gmela. Um and between Chris and Nick Rystrom, um they know a whole lot about how this discharges out to that floodgate. And um we'll be supplementing um their understanding of
that and their maintenance of that with a plan dedicated to the high school that more or less recommends, you know, intervals at which those culverts should be checked out, scoped, jetted out, um and seasonal yearby-year maintenance out
to the um the flow path all the way up to that Oak Island tide gate. So, I have a question about the construction of the foundation and the waterproofing of it. In in the process of having to dig for this foundation, you're going to have to dig a certain
elevation down and you're going to because of the high water table, you're going to have to dewater the site or dewater the area, the immediate area because and because of the high water table in the area, where is that water going to go? It clearly can't go in
someone's backyard on Dun Road, but because of that high water table, where where are you going to dewater? Are you going to bring in fracking tanks? Are you going to build a giant pit that pretty much encapsulates the entirety of the site? How are you going to handle that that dewatering of the site to
build the actual building? >> Not exactly my area of expertise. And >> whose is that? >> Um, >> there's a whole host of yours. >> Yeah, >> someone stand up, please, and answer that question. We don't have Conigley the contractor with us. I apologize for
that. Um but we are car right now we are assuming there both will be smaller temp uh retention basins and also systems to capture clean and um release the water
at at at good rates. Um so we're what we've carried in the budget. >> We haven't bid it out. We don't have a site worker yet. we don't know exactly how they're going to approach it >> is that we have funds to both treat and discharge water, but as this gets phased
and built in pieces, there will be temp basins that move their way around the site based on where what phase we're in and what work we're doing. Um, but still the golden rule of, you know, none of it goes over the property line, >> um, will absolutely be enforced. So, I
think the actual means and methods of doing that um Consigi could give a better answer than me, but I know part of their answer would be we need to get a site work bidder on board and work it out with them. Um I can assure the commission we're carrying the funds to treat anything, capture anything, and uh
not exceed any any rates and not let any of it go over the property land. >> Yeah. No. And then the the reason I asked that is because in your storm water management plan it the part of that construction is a part of this and it just says that you're going to dig a pit and with a very high water table I'm
just kind of working up the logistics you know it doesn't take a an engineer to realize that you're not going to have a lot of place to put the water essentially. >> Um so the deatering is subject to a separate NIP permit for the deatering activities. Y >> um as a special condition and again
Brian has mentioned for the site contractor to be named in the future they're going to come up with the means and methods for that as a special condition um as part of the approval we could provide that dewatering um plant to the commission y
>> you know and again it's a large very professional operation it's we're not going to just hose it out into Northshore road >> I I I wouldn't expect anything less but um moreover than that. I want to make sure that this is not I mean you don't really have you don't have a plan for
that in place right now. You don't have a contractor that is going to provide you a plan for that and that is a huge thing to actually get this foundation built. So I I'd be curious. I need that information. I want to know exactly how it's going to get phase staged all of
it. That would be something I need to know. >> Yeah. And that's not uh through the chair. apologies, but I think that's something that the team is willing to have as a special condition that we provide it to the commission and we could even make it 30 days or even further prior to construction. We could talk about what it looks like with the
schedule. The um development of that plan would require the contractor to be on board. A contractor to be on board requires a permit. It's sort of this catch22 scenario where y >> that's where
in in my opinion I think a special condition requesting that the team gives it to the commission for review with ample time prior to it being implemented may be a fair resolution if you think you're open to it. >> Not really sure about that yet. I I I
kind of want to discuss a little bit with my fellow commissioners, but um any other questions from commissioners? No, >> Mr. Chairman. Um I have another questions. Um I know there are uh tide
gates on uh not in part of you know the area. Um do you know um or do you have any knowledge about the conditions of those gates are you know because they are also big part of uh
uh the flooring area there. >> So I I have the um those gates were rebuilt in 2010. Um I don't have it on this >> just all right. So that's the location of them. They were rebuilt in 2010. I
have the plans with the key elevations on it. That's why some of the what we quoted to you. Um, you know, it's I I don't know today they're their condition, but they were rebuilt completely by West uh the plans were by Western and Samson. The the gates
operate up to elevation 8.25. The tracks above them are at elevation 8.96. Oh, thank you. Um in the uh and that's some where I think I I jumped up in the middle and and gave you some other numbers where the you know
the the highest recorded tide surge at those gates um at that time in 2010 was 9.6 ft. So it sounds like they they went over the tracks at probably Hurricane Bob or hurricane Edna or something like that. >> And I know these these gates are not
under the Wetlands Protection Act. The Army Corps actually does this that this is under their purview, but it it 100% impacts our site. The functionality of those gates, I know it's not our jurisdiction, but it definitely impacts our site. And I would definitely want to
make sure that whomever is going to be providing that certification. I would like to see that to make sure that we're not going to have an adverse impact or that these gates are going to function. So, if you could speak to that, Chris, I'd appreciate that. >> Of course. So these gates are obviously continuously rehabbed. They were
installed. I think it was 2013 that the one that for the eastern county ditch that affects the site is um so we we rehab this gate in two years ago and we just changed out the actuator
this year as long as the bearings for the um shaft that goes up and down for this gate. It's set to elevation 1.2 2, which is about um which is about 16 in from the top of the asphalt at Ellerton
in Argyle, that lower neighborhood on the other side of the tracks. >> Mhm. >> Which would be drastically affected. >> Probably about 50 to 60 homes would be underwater if this gate did malfunction. So, >> right, the entire site would be
underwater if that was the case as well. Uh, moreover than that, the having that certification or mechanical things fails, you know what I mean? Having a a sign off from the Army Corps about this is not going to adversely impact this
site would be a great piece of data to have. Um, not required under our purview, but it would be something I think that would ease a lot of the tension about that. But >> we have an O andM manual that I can provide to you guys associated with this gate that's part of the permit that was
issued with the gate. if you'd like to see our maintenance logs and everything else associated if that might be helpful. >> No, absolutely. I operation and maintenance is definitely key for anything to function, but you know, as you very well know, mechanical things fail all the time for no reason. So, not
to play devil's advocate with you, I I really respect what you do and what's happening with that, but um that is definitely something I'm concerned about. But, you know, the last piece of um and everything with the floodgates I'm I'm fine with. So, I don't have any
other questions about that. But, thank you, Chris. >> Yep. >> Um the last the last is the the biggest piece of the puzzle is the FIR. Um and the fact that it's not going to be issued until the earliest, the 29th. Um,
and that's that's a piece of this puzzle that I would really like to have before we can make a determination about this project because all of the people that are involved, all the regulatory agencies that are involved with this, they have
pretty much the final say. I know the that a mere review is not a yes or no, but it is a good sounding board to make a decision on with this. The E I know is not going to change that much, but having that
certificate would make a big difference in my eyes. And I don't know how other commissioners feel about this, but this is something the complexity of this project and considering what the project is. I know we should really shouldn't be considering the type of project it is,
but we have to in in some cases, but the fact is that we don't have the certification just yet. And I think that it would be prudent for us to continue this till September this meeting or this hearing, excuse me. I be curious some thoughts about that
from the other commissioners before anybody else speaks. Please >> anything um it would would be nice to have. Um, I have I have a different comment about compared to story storage, so I'll wait. >> No, that's okay. Um,
I'm sure you're queued up to to say something, Brian. Um, I guess I mean going back to what I mentioned last month, um, we have we we have aligned the documentation, the permitting and
the procurement of this project to be able to move from phase one, which is already approved, into phase two next month. Um, in the event that we were to continue this until next month, it's totally within your purview. I understand your
your points, your questions. Um, there probably is impact to the high school schedule. So, I would even be interested in um I' I'd ask the committee when do we think uh after the MEPA FIR is issued,
when do we think we could be back for a hearing? Um, I'd also just sort of comment that I'm while we're hearing questions, um, I'm not sure what the FBI is going to change. The initial two MEPA um,
submissions are comprehensive. They're available to everybody. Um, the review went pretty well and being that it will expose the project to some unknown degree of just having to flow with the schedule, having to potentially hold off
awarding site work, hold off um moving into the critical path of the schedule of getting the foundations dug, getting the steel ordered, getting the steel here. Uh, I'd ask for consideration from the committee that um, unless there's very specific items that you'd like to see in there that we could try to get
into, um, I'd just sort of like to do whatever I can to be able to keep this project on schedule and be able to hit the ground building in September. >> So, I would be willing to call for a
special meeting as soon as the FBI comes in. We can have a special meeting if we have any last questions or topics that we need to bring up. But the once the the FBI is going to come in on the 29th in five days after that is the September
meeting. I we could I we would need time to review to make sure that there are no extraneous comments or demands or changes to the project that would alter the construction or the design of the project that considerably impactful. I
don't think that's going to happen. But truthfully, I think that this is something that we should have this FeIR in hand so that there is no question that this is all above board. There's no there's no question that what we are doing is not going to adversely impact
the environment and how we're doing it is going to be a streamlined process from there. But I would be willing to have a special call for a special meeting >> to to expedite this so that we can get it done. But considering the fact that the next meeting is only five days from
when it gets issued, I don't think that we're impacting the schedule, four days does not going to really impact the schedule that much in my humble opinion. But >> I could I could appreciate where you're coming from with that. But if other commissioners would be open to as well
as left field and other engineering folks that to continue this until September. >> Yeah. So the the FIR touched on one of the the biggest issues I have, which is the compensatory storage. Um I didn't feel comfortable having the compensatory storage be underneath the high school.
Um which gave me a response about um we couldn't do underground storage because of hydraulic connectivity. Um can you bring up the actually the plan again? >> Floor site plan. >> Site plan, please. So,
>> do you want the compensatory storage or you want the actual site plan? >> The actual site plan. >> Okay, let's get >> I'll do the big one. Let me go to the rendering. >> Yeah, this one at the end. >> So, but my my initial request was >> can it be somewhere else? I don't feel
comfortable with 4 feet of of storm surge underneath the high school that children could be in. I mean, emergencies happen all the time. These things unexpectedly happen. You guys said we can't do underground storage because of the hydraulic connectivity.
The hydraulic connectivity defined by the mass D is the waterway ensures that flood flows will pass freely in an equivalent manner post construction. I don't consider the compensatory storage under the high school the same
manner of free flowing water as it was before the construction. Your entire northeast elevation is a loading dock. There's only really one small area where that compensatory storage can escape the
parking lot and make it back to the eastern county ditch. >> Do you mind if I change the slide? Okay, sure. Um there are two I think the hydraulic connectivity is part of it but also compensatory storage the volume required to store so underground storage
for the sheer volume of compensatory storage that we would need to provide on the site also makes it a non-starter. Um however I will go to this slide actually I'm going to scoot to the there's a blown up version of this.
Okay. So, as you can see the if we're looking at the building, um we have a few different ways for storm water to leave because as you point out like flowing from one end of the building is not true meaningful storage and the existing condition storm water could
move throughout. So, this edge of the building is open here and then we also have a large box we're calling it a storm water bridge. It's about 25 ft wide. 25 feet wide that provides connection between this wing of the building so water can continue to flow
overland downstream over the field. So this is why in the video I was calling it more of a flood plane because it's lower. It's elevation three. So the storm water does have movement that it could keep moving overland in a few different ways. >> So you mentioned it it's open but
>> it's open. Yep. >> But everything to the north is >> this is all >> loading dock, your transformers. Yeah, >> you're at elevation >> six. >> Yes. So, we concentrated where we where we slope up to get to that loading dock. It's just this sliver here. All of this
or my cursor is is is open elevation four and then it flows to the eastern county ditch from there. So, all of this is open to grade. Oh, sorry. This is hard. >> Understood where where it's open to grade. still based on the definition of hydraulic connectivity by the mass DP.
>> Everything's hydraulically connected to the eastern county ditch right now, is it not? >> Yes, it is. >> So, it's not the same free flowing as it was as it stands today based on this. >> Yes. And then the other perspective would be if we were to box cover it or
pipe it in a way that is closed during. >> You can't. You told me you can't and I believe you, but I still don't believe that there's not other ways to get the compensatory storage done on on the project site. >> So, >> more more retention ponds. What are you
doing with the area next to Dun Road? >> Some of that area is being used for convention storage at the lower elevations. It will also be available at the higher elevations. >> I'm going to get to the main one storage. So this this was this is why we're
talking about the FIR because they brought up this exact storm surge flowage issue that we that we flagged at the first meeting. This is >> and I still don't see the answer. >> I don't believe in the hydraulic
connectivity and I don't believe in flooding a school >> underneath the school. Sorry. I just want to point out in the f in the expanded ENF single uh or draft EIR of the MEEPA documents, we never received
any comments with uh concern with the bordering land subject to flooding compensatory storage regulatory compliance. any discussion to the flood plane analysis was in with
respect to the storm surge which is a different storm event and a different flood pattern than the bordering land subject to flooding. So where I I understand where your concerns are coming from and where you're trying to sort of like
parse the difference between the two, but what we're looking at here is not sort of that overarching storm surge. What we're talking about is elevations up to 4.55 that need to be
uh compensated with this compensatory flood storage to make up for that inland bordering land subject to flooding. This is an inland flooding event, not that coastal surge that has been continuing to be brought up through the FIR. So with respect to the compliance of this,
there have been no um concerns brought to our attention through that process. So I just wanted to clarify that. >> Ann Martin from LEC Environmental. I'm a colleague of Claire's. I just wanted to clarify for you the MEPA process and
what the FIR certificate is. not necessary for >> I'm very well aware of what it is. That's that's I I don't need a MEPA class, but how does it pertain to what we're
talking about here? A lot of all we're familiar with the MEEPA process. How does it pertain and how can we preclude it if if we're >> so the MEEPA process is a state process
to guide to allow applicants to receive comments from state agencies in relationship to state permits that may or will be required so that you get feedback from state agencies for that state permitting
process. As you know the FER certificate is a certificate. It is not a permit. What it does is it says to state agencies the issues have been discussed enough that you may now proceed forward with
the state permitting and that there's enough information available to the applicant for that state permitting and any open issues to be worked out between the state agency and the applicant. I'm not saying that the information in the FEIR does not shed light for this
commission. What I am saying is you don't have to wait for that process to be completed. And a lot of the information that we've submitted to you today is the exact same information that was in the FEIR. The only thing that wasn't in there was the animation
because we realized the animation would make it perceived clear. Anything else from commissioners? >> So I mean if if the FIR wouldn't explicitly state that
the compensatory storage and the hydraulic connectivity is appropriate, then I I'm not comfortable passing this. So I I defer to D. >> We I we All I can tell you is what my experience
is, right? So I can't speak for an agency, but they don't normally say that the certificate either says you've adequately addressed the issues to a level that you can proceed forward with >> those are the issues they brought up, >> right? But >> so if you if you're if you're satisfying
those issues for them, which are our same issues, then we are satisfied. >> I hear what you're saying. I'm just saying they're not gonna they're it's not really going to come out and say you did a great job. >> I don't need them to say the hydraulic
connectivity is unimpeded and this design works really well and and everything's great. If they give you the permit after bringing up those specific comments and the flood flowing and the hydraulic connectivity and everything we're asking about now, if they issue you the certificate, I'm comfortable
issuing the NOI. >> And and that's exactly what I'm saying right now. If they issue the certificate then I am comfortable and I would ask other commissioners to wait. We have five days to wait after they review it and that doesn't give us much time to
make sure that we have reviewed this certificate properly. I know this is the the FBI is not a yes or no. I I I really don't appreciate having a a MEPA class up here. What I'm concerned about is that we have
all our ducks in a row with everything. And that's that's what it is. And and speaking with D analysts from Nero and asking them about this situation, being advised that you don't want to put the cart before the horse is what I'm
getting at here. And I'm asking for five days. I'm not asking for six months or a year. I'm asking for five days. Sure. Don't don't have an objection from that. And
with all I'm going to this is my job to ask. I think I understand what the exception is going to be. Would there be any consideration through the chair of that being a a special condition of the permit of MEPA coming back silent on the issue we were just talking about with an
approval on the 28th? Um, if the MEPA certificate comes back, should we not expect an imminent approval next month? So therefore, could it be considered a special condition? >> I'd rather not make a special condition
because an order of condition set by a notice of intent is still subject to the MEPA process. If I do something and I put something on an order of conditions that is going to adversely impact this project because we didn't have a certificate saying that, then how
how am I supposed to how am I supposed to do that? How how am I supposed to proceed from there when we've already got egg all over our face because we've made a we've made a misstep because we didn't have generally everything. I know we have almost everything, but I don't think we have everything just yet to
make a proper decision. and and I understand how schedules and timets and the price of things go up as the time increases that the project price is going to get higher and higher the longer we wait to proceed. I get that.
I'm I'm not trying to say that I I don't get that. I I've done many projects, but a project is big or as large of a scale as this is and where it is, the type of project it is and what it is influenced by
titally. It's influenced by high groundwater. It's influenced by a lot of different things. So, I I just want to make sure that we're correct on this. I I really I don't want to budge on this because there's no reason to. 5 days, >> Mr. Chair, could I speak for one moment?
>> Absolutely. not with the intent to give a lesson on Meepa, but as somebody who has been regulated into oblivion by MEPA on a series of city projects that um L is quite aware of as well. The one thing I would say here um Tom Scroski, chief of planning, community development,
sorry. Um it one of the carts is going to have to be placed before one of the horses. You can in the analogy you could make the cart be MEEPA, you could have the cart be um the actions taken by the conservation commission, but this
project cannot proceed without both of those. So if you were to issue um an order of conditions for this project tonight and then it didn't receive its MEPA certificate, it's a moot point. The the project cannot continue. And by the
same token, um you could say the same thing if the the state um certificate was issued, but the conservation commission failed to act. You need both of them. And I would just ask if for you all to consider if that phasing as you've laid it out is really that
critical because we do have a an entire team here that we're paying consultants and experts working on this project that um you know time is money and also there is a check and balance throughout this process because of that rigorous MEPO
review which will happen and must happen irrespective of the actions the commission takes tonight. And I would just encourage you to look within the purview of the wetlands protections act. And I think everything that they presented tonight shows that um this work is well meeting the standards of
that act. And I think actually there's other presentations tonight that were we to have seen the level of flooding we saw in that modeling would be underwater. This building would be above ground. >> And thank you for the opportunity. >> Appreciate it, Tom. Thank you.
I don't know. I'm just compelled to want to continue this until September. It's just this is my this is my professional career. I do these things for a living and compromising my moral integrity and
my professional integrity is not something that I'm willing to do at this point. So, I would like to continue this and I would like to get some input from some other commissioners before you speak. Brian, thank you. >> I' I've never experienced this. How long does a appeal to the D take? If if we
were to vote no and you had to appeal to the D, I >> probably a year and a half, maybe maybe the earliest six months maybe. I've seen >> I've never experienced I'm asking the the wetland scientists here or Claire or >> minimum six months. >> Yeah, it's it's minimum six months. I've
seen year and a half, three years for it to go. And I don't want to vote a no and delay this any further. Just just my curiosity, if it would have been faster, then we could have done that. >> Yeah. No, it's at least 6 months. Um, and I would definitely, as someone who
went to that high school in the '9s, it wasn't good then. And I know we need a new high school, okay? And I'm not plate to to all of you right now. I know this project needs to happen, okay? And I want to make sure that where it is located. And as you saw from the presentation tonight from 195 BFW or
American Legion Highway, they're raising the site. They're putting in compensatory water storage. However they do it, it's it's not it's not perfect. Nothing nothing in this world is, but not too far away from your site.
And I just want to make sure that we are doing the right thing here. We have a we have an obligation to do the right thing here. That's it. That's what I have to say about that. >> If you will, just one >> absolutely. >> One more. Um, if we were to continue um
the hearing, one other request through the chair would be to um start working on or issue a draft order of conditions. That is something that would help us keep a bidding process moving >> um under with biders understanding
there's going to be a final order of conditions and we're going to abide by it. But um a draft order of conditions would certainly be one of the things that would help us just keep the train parts of the train moving. >> I already have at least three points plus our standard boiler point. >> Yep. >> And I would ask other commissioners if
they have order of conditions to please in the next week. You have seven days to provide any extraneous or special conditions to me. I'm going on record saying that and I will have that to you in 8 days. a draft order of conditions so that you can proceed as planned
>> or try to cons to proceed get your RFQS and RFPs out there to get your process or keep your process rolling. And as I stated earlier, I would be willing to have a special meeting, call for a a special meeting to get this approved a
little bit faster, not make you wait the five days. >> Okay. >> Appreciate Appreciate all that. >> No, that's that I'm trying to work with you here. I really am. Yes. >> Yep. And I'm I mean I don't want to seem like I'm coming across in these requests as in in the back of my mind is a
journal article that read that I read a week or two ago that with all due respect to the folks who wrote it. Um I think there was some wording in there that I disagreed with. Um I'm not going to stand up here and say that doing that is going to delay the project. I just want you to hear that from me. Um,
>> and I appreciate you saying that >> it means we have to get our a few of our ducks back in a row and and have them marching uh in in the right order here. But um it's something that I think we can make work. It's not fatal. Something
like 6 months or a year would be a just I'd be telling you right now we're moving the move in date from fall 2028. So I appreciate the consideration. anything we could do to move um if maybe it it's a special meeting, I appreciate that offer. If we can work on the draft
order conditions, I appreciate that. Um just anything we can do to resequence some of the other parts that have nothing to do with you folks would allow me to tell you, city council, school building committee mayor, um just give us a little bit of time. This isn't this isn't um the end of the rainbow. We're
not ripping up our schedule and throwing it away. >> Um we're just trying to make the best of it. So, I just wanted the message to be clear that I don't want to sound like I'm up here threatening that um if this goes to a meeting later in the month or early next month that um the whole house of cards falls. That's not the case. >> No. And I'm sure it won't. And and
truthfully, there's ways to shave off time here and there. And I'm sure you're going to be able to shave off that month that you already needed to shave off. >> So, I my job is to bother everybody. So, that's >> exactly right. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. >> Yeah.
So, that being said, um I think we're kind of all in agreeance that we're going to continue this until the MEPA comes back uh potentially have an earlier scheduled meeting for um or for later this month uh later in August uh
when we do get it back. But I I think that we've all come to a consensus about that. Um, >> your mic is not on, John. >> John Shu, 221 rice. Just just make sure we get Brian on record that he agrees to
a continuence. >> Um, okay. Brian, if you wouldn't mind agreeing to getting up and agreeing to that, that would be fantastic. if that is our if that is our plan. >> I just >> clear to say >> I I just wanted to ask in addition to
receiving the MEPA certificate and having a chance to review that, is there anything else from commission members that we can take away from tonight that we should be prepared for and prepared to address? Is that really the only piece that the project team needs to provide to the commission? If the
compensatory storage stays underneath the high school, I will not feel comfortable. But if you get the certificate, I will vote to issue. >> And I I might add that I as an auto condition, I intend to have something to do with that eastern county ditch as far
as maintenance is concerned, whether it be from the this plan itself or from the city of Reier. in a preview into some of the order conditions that I would set that there would be zero additional pvious sur uh impervious
surfaces added to that property in perpetuity. Zero that's something I don't if if everything you have here is correct and that we only have a certain amount that available to us for compensatory water storage being used by
greening the space. I do not want to see that is one order of conditions that I will put that there will be no more impervious surfaces in perpetuity on this property. >> And just to be clear that I think that's not something it's appropriate for me to comment on because our activity is just
this project. Um I would encourage the committee to speak with the city and city hall just because about that because we've heard a lot of ideas of potentially doing something else down the line including a commuter rail stop. So again, nothing to do with us. That's
not We can abide by that, no problem. But >> it's it's definitely not to put the gibbos on anything future in the site. It's it's basically I'm trying to make sure that we have enough down the road longevity of this project >> to be able to hold that water on the
site with all the green spaces that we have added so that the site has longevity for 50 years, not 15 years because we put a commuter rail on that property. That's that's kind of where I'm going with this. I want to make sure that this site has longevity by not adding additional impervious or per
impervious surfaces, excuse me. You know what I mean? >> Shar, do you mind if I ask a question? >> Absolutely. Go ahead. >> Um, I just kind of want to ask a kind of a summation question of everything that's been talked about over the last uh couple minutes of as far as from a timeline perspective. Um, so our meeting
is September 3rd. >> Third. >> Okay. And you're hopefully going to be able to have all your documentation of everything that commission needs by what? August 29th, >> potentially the Monday following the just I is it going to arrive that day or
is it going to arrive? >> Typically, a certificate is issued on a specific date. In this case, it would be August 29th. And um we usually receive it the following business day. So, we would be expecting to receive it September 1st, a Monday,
>> but that's Labor Day. That's Labor Day. >> Okay. >> So, we would expect it the second. >> Okay. So then I would ask to the chair um if if this is received by son the second >> so we have 24 hours to review the document make sure that we're comfortable
>> how long is this document typically >> so the yeah the how long was your e >> oh it was 546 pages I have >> 546 pages >> just to prepare you there is a it's I don't know 25 30 pages but
>> yes >> there is a whole lot there's probably 10 pages at the beginning that restates everything that was in the FIR a lot of it is the same information that was restated in prior ones so it's not a
whole lot of new information but it is >> so we would be emailed this on the 2nd I assume and then just confirming that correct >> I will ask there's a gentleman at Meepa that is the the issue with it being
technically issued on the 29th is it has to be signed. >> So, usually it gets signed and sometimes it doesn't get emailed around. >> I will plead with a gentleman >> who issues those and say, "If it gets signed before 5:00, can you please send
it to me?" And if he does, we'll send it to you over the weekend or as soon as we get it, if we can get it earlier. Just realistically, we wanted to be honest with you that sometimes there's a delay. One other thing, before you get the certificate, you're often getting um comments from the various permitting
agencies and it sounds like D is the one in particular that we have questions about and if were we to receive those comments earlier. I would imagine the project team could send those along which are probably most relevant and within the purview of of what you'd be discussing and voting on.
>> Absolutely. just just confirming again just for all all of us watching whether it's on TV or whatever. Um so September 2nd we're expecting to be able to get this if this is approved which we're all assuming hopefully it will be um that
comes to us then we have technically about 24 hours to do that for that meeting if that's what's if we decide that we want to vote on it at that point. Is that correct? >> Yeah. I don't think the uh secretary of uh energy and environmental affairs is going to be in that Friday. So, um,
anyways, we'll we'll see. We'll see. >> Yep. >> So, um, that's basically what what it boils down to. It's it's not a very long or intensive document. It's just reaffirming and restating what has already been submitted to us and confirming that that is not going to
have an adverse or hopefully it doesn't have an adverse envir uh impact to the environment. Um, so that yes. So you would you would feel comfortable moving forward with this project with that on within 24 hours of having that signed being said? >> I wouldn't take me long to read 25
pages. >> Okay. All right. Just wanted to confirm for myself. >> But I think cons like I said earlier considering the scope it magnitude and the all the eyes on this project it it it behooves us to have that. And if Brian if you could go on record stating that that would be something that you
would be able to continue that would be great. >> Continue to September 3rd. just to make sure I'm keep I'm staring at my calendar as I do this just so I don't I don't forget. Um yes, that's acceptable to us. >> Excellent. Thank you very much for that.
>> Um so if that's okay, >> John Shu again. Um it is an open hearing. We haven't asked members of the public to speak yet. I don't know that there are any, but >> I would definitely give that. I just
wanted to make sure everything was here to make sure that it was >> just for members of the commission. September 3rd, your meeting, assuming you approve it, we could get the permit issued on the 4th. And just so everyone knows, there's
a 10 business day hold on that before it's valid. >> Um, so it wouldn't be valid until the middle of the month. That's mainly for you. >> Yeah. So, you know, >> but it'll it'll still give us it'll still give them a good road map and the ability to, you know, u
>> get vendors under their belt. Uh >> so, we'll we'll send out a draft set of the special conditions. >> It's a word document. Uh send it to the whole conservation commission. You guys can mark it up and add uh conditions that you think need to
be in there. >> Yep. >> And then we can uh give that to them. So the rest the rest of the order is just boilerplate stuff. So >> you committed to September 3rd and I am committing to eight days after this meeting to make sure >> I'm a man of my word. Um but thank you
very much. And so moving on with the agenda. Um we'll see you guys next month. Thank you. Um >> we had some site visits. Um, well, we're having we're it's still open and we're going to have a meeting
in September 3rd or on September 3rd for this. Um, >> if there's anyone here, they >> I mean, if Okay. >> No, that's fine. All right. So, at this time, I'd like to open uh for any proponents or opponents of the project
as as it stands. >> Yep. Nope. So, we're good. So, we're continuing. Moving on. Um, so site visits. Uh, so we had the, uh, certificate of compliance visit from Tom. Thank you very much for scheduling that and taking care of that. Uh, we
have definitely streamlined and moved our, um, which I will refine with you, L, as as we get a little bit closer to next month. Um, I'd love to have a conversation and make sure that we get that off the agenda. But um if nobody
has any open discussion or items for open discussion, I'd like to call for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor?