WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=HS9RfTGjC6A

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: HS9RfTGjC6A):
- 00:00:02: Chamberlain Avenue Deck Expansion Introduction and Initial Comments
- 00:02:48: Public Comments: Garino Supports; Manning Clarifies Zoning
- 00:04:37: Brief Recess; Vote to Approve Chamberlain Avenue NOI
- 00:07:27: River Beach Boulevard Request for Continuance Granted
- 00:09:59: Northshore Road Driveway Repaving RDA Approval
- 00:11:24: Arcadia Street Certificate of Compliance Approval and Praise
- 00:15:39: Washington Avenue Duplex Demolition and Construction Proposal
- 00:18:55: Commissioner Concerns and Vote on Washington Avenue NOI
- 00:21:55: Gibson Point Access Road Project: Overview and Phasing
- 00:26:21: Environmental Impacts, Wetland Resources, and Proposed Plantings
- 00:29:02: Construction Details, Timeline, and Connectivity Benefits
- 00:33:43: Commissioner Questions Local Connectivity and Access
- 00:38:36: Discussion About Park Access, Fire Department, Timeline
- 00:41:33: Project Timeline, Concerns About Impervious Surface Material
- 00:44:15: Permeable Pavers and Maintenance Considerations
- 00:51:09: Infiltration System and Runoff Management
- 00:55:14: Plant Survival Plan and Review for Turning Radiuses
- 00:58:23: Public Comment: Car Access Through Riverside and Location Clarification
- 01:02:56: Additional Public Comment and Consultant Rebuttals
- 01:06:08: Visual Clarifications for Gibson Access Road Details
- 01:10:08: Additional Public Comment Concerns and Discussions
- 01:15:23: Storm Water Runoff and Timeline Discussions
- 01:18:04: Permit Recommendations for the Gibson Access Road
- 01:20:15: Impermeable Paving Material Review; Project Drainage Plans
- 01:27:14: Review Plans and Final Motions for Gibson Access Road
- 01:35:52: Brief Motions for Project Signature Approvals
- 01:37:08: Add Condition; No Net Increase for the Project
- 01:41:17: Vote on Changes; and Kreno Street Project Introductions
- 01:44:43: Request for Determination: Canals, Dumping Grounds, and Degraded Areas
- 01:48:28: Negative Determinations and Site Investigation Approvals
- 01:52:50: Site Topography Details; Await Site Findings for Approvals
- 02:00:29: Putnham Street Complaint, Wetland Concerns, and Mowing Dispute
- 02:03:35: Past Nick Site Investigation Reports and Ongoing Legal Issues
- 02:09:49: Unpermitted Structures and Environmental Disregard Concerns
- 02:16:02: Issue Cease and Desist; Revist in Thirty Days
- 02:24:44: Glendale St Pushed Back; Final Communications to DCR and DPW
- 02:27:08: NWR Oil Spill


Part: 1

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Okay. All right, [sighs] Anthony. Okay. Welcome back everybody. Brief. We had a brief recess for a moment. Um, we're going to start with uh 57 Chamberlain. Please step up, introduce

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yourself, and uh say your address. My name is Sandy Tapia. I actually the owner of 57 Chamberlain Avenue and we're officially going to open up the hearing. Um, so I'm going to let you begin. >> You got to press the uh got to press the

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button. the press the press the button. Yep. See how it's red? >> Red. Yeah. >> Perfect. >> Okay. Sorry. Um at 57 Chamberlain Avenue, I'm actually looking to do an expansion on an existing deck and also add four feet to it.

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>> Well, having seen the property and the fact that you really did pay attention to what we suggested and doesn't happen all the time that we are able to go to a property, suggest things, and then they actually do listen to us and go and do get everything done. Um, but it what you're going to end up doing, it's going

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to look beautiful when it's done. We look forward to seeing the finished product. >> Um, but I do think that this is one of those where, um, it's going to be a benefit to the neighbors, going to be benefit to the whole community of of that area of what you're doing. So, um, now that it's it's opened and you're

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looking to have the, um, notice of intent approved, I'm going to pass it along to anyone else on the commission if they happen to have any questions or concerns on this project. I wish the rest of the city would follow what this woman did with her backyard and with her plans. If everybody that

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was proposing something in a that falls in front of the purview of conservation commission, it would be a lot easier. You did a really good job and your plan is really great. >> Thank you. >> Honestly, the only question I really have is do I get to come over on the 3rd of July? [laughter]

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I'm just goofing with it. Seriously, the project's outstanding and it's going to add great value to you, to your neighborhood, and great job. I wish a lot more people would do that. You did a really good job at your plans. It's impressive. >> Thank you. >> Did you have any questions for us?

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>> No. >> No. Okay. [laughter] Sometimes you do. So, in case you have everything that you need, you're ready to go. So, we're happy to be here. If at any point you do have additional questions or concerns, feel free to email us. We're happy to help along the way. But um at this time if there's

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anyone that has a uh um positive, negative, anything about this project that'd like to speak is welcome to [laughter] >> Angela Garino SA wood five counselor. I have absolutely no problem with this. She is an amazing neighbor um in the

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pines and it's a testament to to h what she's like for her to comply with everything that this commission has asked her to do and um I look forward to seeing the finished product myself. Y >> uh good evening. Uh my name is Jane

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Manning and I am um managing partner um co-partner at 42 Goodwin which uh butter um and this project was approved by the zoning committee in the fall. So I just had a question. I didn't look at any

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prior papers or plans. Um did it just have to come about before the uh conservation commission again? What's the difference between what happened in the fall and what's happening tonight with this project? Anything different? >> There was just a change. She was able to

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go and get the correct um paperwork, be able to get the everything approved ahead of time, and then when she's now before us, all the blueprints, everything is set. >> So, we were able to have it that now all the paperwork, everything is done. And now at this point, um it's ready to have

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the approval. >> Okay. I have no objection. And I was just wondering what the difference was between what happened at the zoning um hearing and what's happening tonight. That's just what you're saying is clarifying some plans. >> Yes, absolutely. That's basically it. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> We're uh going to just take a twominut recess and then we'll be right back. You look tired. You've been working today. >> I like it, but I I want to make a presentation

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regards my property. Apologize everyone for that. Um, you're welcome to end the recess. All right. [sighs and gasps] Thank you for everyone's patience. Occasionally, sometimes we have to remove people from

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the meetings. Hate to do it, but um we just want a peaceful conservation commission meeting. Okay. Sorry. You are welcome to come back. Sorry for that. Um okay. So um we are going to do a vote to approve the um notice of intent for 57

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Chamberlain. Um before we do, I'm going to personally just say that I am for it. Um also, thank you for letting us play with your dogs while we were there. And just future reference, anyone who has a dog allows us to play with the dog. That's always always helps. Um, so do we

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have a motion to approve the NOI. >> I make a motion to that extent. >> Second. >> Is all in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. I The eyes have it. You are approved. >> Thank you for your patience.

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>> Okay. Okay, the next on the docket is uh 620 River Beach Boulevard. Okay, you're going to officially open the hearing. Please uh introduce yourself and say your address. >> Members of the conservation commission, Joseph Kio Street,

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>> your attorney for the applicant, 620 River Beach Boulevard realy trust. Um we uh uh want to first thank the members uh for the site visit that occurred uh several weeks back. We obtained a lot of very useful information um and uh are uh

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attempting at this time to address each of the comments that were made with regard to um the uh storm water management and the compensation. Um we are at this time requesting that uh we be allowed to continue this to the next

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meeting so that we can complete the um uh the uh obtaining the information that the commission was looking for. Uh we have retained uh engineering solutions group out of Marblehead to assist with the storm water uh profile analysis that

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was requested and uh to have suggestions for the compensation on the 3,925 square ft um of water runoff uh that was asked for. Um we also are appearing before the ZBA on the 27th of this

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month. We would be able to complete that meeting and bring back that information. And finally, we've arranged for a site visit for the ward counselor um at a a convenient time for her before the next meeting and before the ZBA meeting. Um so I while I would like to pass in the

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the cards um for the service uh again we would we would respectfully request the continuence until the next meeting. >> We absolutely grant that and that would have been our recommendation regardless. Um, I would just like to personally say, uh, thank you for listening to what we had to say and going through all of

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these things because you have an uphill battle. >> We understand very fair comments and we'll do our best to address them. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, taking it seriously, going through each step, um, but when you do come before us next time, if you have somebody that is representing from the perspective of

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environmental, that would definitely help your cause. and then being able to have the ZBA what they decided to do. >> God God bless you and in the project that you've decided to take on. Um God be with you, sir. >> Thank you. Nice seeing all of you tonight. >> Okay, that is continued. Um the next up

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is 1012 Northshore Road. >> Hi, good evening. My name is John. Uh my address is 1012 Northshore Road in Riiera. So I'm here today to uh request up the uh approval of the uh uh >> RDA. >> Yeah. RDA renew the driveway.

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>> Okay. Um well having seen what you did um you know I I don't think that there would be any further impact. I think that you are worthy of having the negative determination of the RDA which is the negative determination is what you want. So, um, it would be my my

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opinion that that is what should happen for your property based upon you doing everything that was needed to be done. Um, but I'm going to, uh, throw it to the people on the commission to see if anyone has any other questions. >> Yeah, John, thanks for working with us. Um, you returned it back to its original

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state. Uh, so there's no need for uh, an NOI here, so we're going to vote for, in my opinion, a negative determination of applicability. So, >> thank you. you'll be good to go with the DPW to pull that permit for the driveway repaving as well. >> Yeah. I think is there anyone else that

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has any uh questions, concerns, anything? >> No. Okay. H no. No, not on this. Okay. Um we have enough for the vote. He's out there, but that's fine. Um, so

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I would ask for a motion to um approve a negative determination of RDA. >> Motion to motion to approve a negative determination >> of RDA. Yep. Do we have a second? >> Do we have for everyone in favor say I.

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>> I. >> I. >> I. >> Eyes have it. You're all set. >> Thank you very much. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, next up is 84 Arcadia Street. Uh, good evening members of the commission. Uh, my name is Eric Brady of Engineering Alliance, civil engineer for the project at 84 Arcadia Street. Uh,

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here on behalf of 84 Arcadia Street LLC. Um, we are just here to request a certificate of compliance for the completed work on the project site. Uh my understanding is that there was a sitewalk uh last week and uh everything was done in compliance with the approved plans. Um so as I mentioned just here to

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request that certificate of compliance. Thank you. >> Your uh company did amazing work. Um I mean sometimes we go and we we look at a lot of properties and a lot of times people build apartment complexes that don't fit the neighborhood or just but I

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wish that your company would do more work in Revier. if there is possibilities for whoever's watching this in the city council or whomever to have your company build more town homes that look like that little community on Arcadia Street. It is awesome what you

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guys did for um the driveway for the asphalt. Everything was done the right way. It was uh it was beautiful. It was really a great job. And there are times where, you know, you look at a property that's being built and they built it legally allowed what they're supposed to be able to do. you guys went over and

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above. Um, you did a great job. That's my not just my opinion, but I can't imagine anyone seeing it and not thinking that. So, I hope they sell for great money and they sell quickly and it's a huge improvement to that neighborhood. But, uh, I'm going to throw it to the rest of the commission

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if anyone would like to say anything. >> Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. For those of you that know me know that, uh, this project I have a a long history with the project and >> you know, Arcadia Street. Yeah. Well, I live there and I was at the uh forefront

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of trying to get this project changed to what it is now. I'm very grateful for everybody that worked together to get the projects that that is there now, especially the Narkeesian family for the willingness to build

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the units instead of the facility that they wanted to build in my neighborhood. And the outcome is outstanding. And now I know that has not much to do with this commission. Uh when it comes to us, you guys did do a fantastic job. Your storm water management plan there is

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fantastic. The back units build up on the pairs is phenomenal. I I like the chairman said, I wish a lot of developers would make a design like yours. I would say that people should get your design and uh or or hire you to

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use your design. It was fantastic. But we're not being paid to say this, by the way, [laughter] just so everyone's aware. We just really like what he did. >> This this is something that started in maybe 2023 in February and it was going to be a nightmare situation for my

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neighborhood and through a lot [clears throat] of effort from the community, from counselors, from the state uh uh from our state rep, my state rep, Turo, from the current mayor that's the the mayor that left and the mayor that's here now. Fantastic job. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate

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it. I I'm so happy that we could put a nice bow on this and I hope we get some nice new neighbors living in my community. Thank you. >> Anyone else have anything questions, comments, anything? >> Nope. Okay. Not seeing any. I'm going to

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ask for a motion to uh approve the certificate of compliance. >> I'd like to make that motion. >> We got one. >> You got a second. All right. Everyone else eyes. I >> I >> I It's approved. Thank you all very much and uh very much appreciate the kind

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words. Thank you. Have a good evening. >> Thank you. You too. >> Okay. The next on the docket is 690 Washington A. Going to officially open this. Good evening everybody. My name is Justine Fox. I'm with Williamson Sparis.

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I'm representing the applicant at 690 Washington Avenue. Um so my understanding is there was a site visit last week with um a subset of the commissioners and you saw the existing conditions on the property. All existing structures are proposed to be

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demolished and a twostory duplex style dwelling with an attached accessory dwelling unit is proposed in its place. So three units total in one building. um as well as replacing a existing retaining wall within its footprint

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connecting to sewer and water services within the street. Um sidewalk replacement and all of this is proposed within a jurisdictional FEMA flood zone. So beneath the proposed dwelling is proposed to have free flowage of water

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for flood water to pass and recede um without getting hung up on anything. So, I'm happy to answer any questions. I brought plans as well if we need to take a look at those. >> Now, I don't know why you'd want to demolish such a beautiful building. I mean, it's just perfect. Ready to move

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in today. I'm just kidding. >> I've only looked at aerial images, but >> so for anyone that is that didn't go on the site visit, didn't see it. The place is an absolute pit. Um, if I was a neighbor of this property, I would hope that the wind would just knock it down to make it look nicer. Um, so what you

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guys are going to end up being done when this is done is going to be an improvement. Anything legitimately would be an improvement. The house is just had boarded up windows. It's um for someone that lives in Ravier, loves River and whenever I see a property like this, my

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first thought is I wish somebody would come in and do what you guys are doing to be able to beautify the neighborhoods. The only way Ravier will improve as a city is if these types of structures are replaced and what you're doing and what it's going to look like

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is going to be nice. The fact that you also have realized that in the back we're um it's going to have issues with coastal storm flooding that you have put that into consideration into the project is important. Um, but and another thing that you guys did that I appreciate was you were able to have um everything

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around the property as a catch basin to to catch if if anything comes off. Um, a lot of times people don't do it until the last second. You already have that done. In order to get into the property, you have to kind of step over like a hay barrel kind of a situation. Um, which is great because if there is any debris, it

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will be caught by that. So that's great. Um, so my personal opinion is I'm I'm glad that it's being done, having seen what the property is versus what it's going to be. Um, we look forward to first off the building being gone from this earth and then the new one uh

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coming up in its place. So, um, I'm grateful for people like yourself that are taking this project on, but I'm going to pass it on to anyone else on the commission if anyone has any questions or concerns. >> Okay. Oh, >> ma'am.

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press the uh >> here we go. Okay, a little better. Just just on the street when you're doing de demolition just just to make sure when dirt is taken in out especially when it rains that we have some way to collect that it doesn't go into the wetlands or

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on the street like if we if can make sure we put something there or if if it's done or something during that day when the day is done just to make sure pick it up so it doesn't >> um >> so we've proposed um siltation sacks and all catch basins on the street as well

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as hay bells in front of where They're doing the curb work and then silk fencing surrounding the entire properties. >> Yeah. No, thank you for doing just just on this. I didn't see any but all other than that look looks good. Yeah, just to make sure. Thank you. >> And will there be any disruption to

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traffic when you are demolishing the property or is it all going to be done on site? >> Um I believe it's all going to be done on site. >> Okay. >> Um I I don't have a traffic plan. Um, they're replacing the sidewalk. I'm not

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exactly sure how much work needs to be done in the road to connect to the existing utilities there, but good question. >> And do you know when the plan demolition is? >> I don't >> don't. Okay. >> Okay, that's good. All right. Um, so I'm

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going to make a motion to approve the >> Just one one comment. What what what's the uh the driveway material? Is that just paved? >> Say that again. Sorry. >> The driveway material, the finished driveway material. >> I believe it's just paved. Yep. >> Was there a study at all about the total

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impervious area there now versus future? >> Um so we're >> I don't see that anywhere. >> So since it was in land subject to coastal storm flowage, it didn't ask that right on the notice of intent application. Um, we are proposing 4,700

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square feet of imperous surface within land subject to coastal storm flowage. And I do not have the existing condition number. >> Tom, the the coastal storm issue would be in the very back of the property. >> Okay.

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Any anyone else any questions, concerns? No. Okay. Um, we now open this up to anybody in the audience that's pro or con on the uh on 690 Washington A. No. Okay. Hearing none, I'm going to uh

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close the hearing. Okay. Um, so I'm going to ask uh to the commission if uh would like to vote on uh motion to approve the NOI. >> I'll make a motion to approve the NOA.

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>> Do we have a second? >> Don, do you need more time? >> No. >> Yeah. A second. Do we have eyes? >> I >> I It is approved. >> Thank you everybody.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. Um now time for Gibson Point Access Road. >> We're going to officially open the hearing. Come on. Get rid of what we don't need right now. And then

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Just give me one second. I just want to make sure this should operate as I planned it to operate. But you never know what could happen here today. Okay. Uh, good evening everybody. I'm Julie Dearo. I'm the transportation

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coordinator for the city of Rivier and I work in the department of planning and community development. Um, I am the project manager for the Gibson Park Access Road and the Gibson Park round well the Gibson roundabout. Um I'm joined tonight with uh Peter Raboski who

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is the lead senior engineer from Howeststein Hudson and Alex Gaspar who is the environmental scientist representing Weston and Samson and me once. So, um, we're going to start off with just an aerial view of

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the project area, which is, uh, the Riverside and Point of Pines area, the Point of Pines neighborhood. Um, and this improvements that we're talking about tonight are all part of the riverfront master plan process uh,

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that was that began in 2020. a up close view view of the existing conditions of the area as you can see on the screen is um the access road is going to connect the Route 1A southbound roundabout

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that's being constructed right now to the Gibson Park and this will eliminate any you park users uh going through the Riverside neighborhood to access the park from that side of Route 1A south. The only people that will be able to

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access the park are um fire and police. There'll be emergency ballards at the end of the park entrance if they can be removed in case they have to access it. This slide over here just describes our project phasing as you can see. Um and

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to the bottom of the slide is the current phase of the roundabout which is being constructed right now. It's just dealing with mostly drainage. Um, and we'll be be working on building the south uh bound ramp coming up in the

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next few weeks. Uh, the second phase which is also under construction is the Gibson Park improvement project as was leaded by another colleague of mine who is managing that project for the city. The portion of the project that we're talking about tonight is the Gibson Park

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Access Road. Um, we are at 100% design. We are waiting for a notice of intent in our chapter 91 license in order to submit these pro plans to the mass state rightway permitting agency division.

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Now I'm going to turn it over to Alex who's going to talk about the environmental impacts and the wetland resources in the area. You have to use the mouse. Okay, great. Thank you Julie. Yep. So this is our wetland resources map um that brings together all of the

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resources that were noted during the delineation as well as resources that are mapped on site. So during the delineation we noted salt marsh um as well as coastal beach. So on this map we have those resources and their 100 foot

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buffers. In addition the entire site is considered barrier beach and coastal dune. Um so those resources are present as well. Um, in addition, uh, the entire most of the site is within land subject to

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coastal storm flowage. The elevation of the 100red-year flood plane on the site is 10 ft. So, I believe 99% of the project will fall below 10t um, except for a small portion of it. So to summarize, we are proposing impact

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to barrier beach, coastal dune, and within the 100red-year flood flood plane or land subject coastal storm flow edge. These are the impacts we are looking at. Um that font's a little small, but it's looking at about 24,800 square ft. Um

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cumulatively cumulatively of impact uh with the permanent impacts consisting of grading um and then the installation of the access road and our temporary impacts being you know stockpile areas, erosion control, construction access, as

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well as the um native plantings that are proposed. So, we are proposing about 150 square feet of native plantings. This is just going to occur in sort of curve of the access road. Um, it'll be clear to see once we're looking at some full-size

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plans on here, but um we're proposing all native plantings in that area. That list is below. Um, we are also proposing to use coastal grass seed mix throughout the site um on any sort of exposed areas and those are called out on the plans as well.

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I'll now turn it over to Peter. Thanks, Alex. Um, so the construction of this project is expected to begin in summer of 2027. Um, the construction duration is only going to be a couple months is what we anticipate. the scope of work on this project. Uh it's

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basically a long driveway, so the construction challenges are minor compared to the environmental permitting, which is tremendous on this project. Um the excess dirt is going to be stored on site within stockpile locations. Those stockpile locations haven't been confirmed yet. That'll be a

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requirement of the contractor. It'll be an order of conditions they'll submit with their storm water pollution prevention plan. Um both uh Julie and Alex mentioned there's the ongoing roundabout project right now. Um they're stockpiling materials there. We believe that project will still be under

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construction for the duration of this project's construction schedule. And you know there's potential to uh collaborate and share stockpiling areas, but we can't anticipate that until the contractor submits their proposal and is awarded. Um once all the final grading

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is completed, the areas will be paved according to the plans and the necessary areas will be receded with native vegetation in addition to those native planting areas. Um we believe that this project will be complete prior to the start of the Gibson Park I'm sorry we

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believe that the Gibson Park resiliency improvement project is going to be complete before this project is complete. And we believe that the Gibson Park access project will be constructed within the time frame of the roundabout project. So there's going to be a lot of

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activity going on right there with three concurrent projects. Um but as far as we understand right now, the the improvement project will be complete first in the park itself. Um this is a plan sheet that was uh submitted as part

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of the stamp plans and it's hard to see here but it shows the cross-section of the road that is being proposed. Um it is a very simple cross-section that's a typical uh depth of material you know stone base compacted with asphalt on

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top. Happy to talk more about that if any of you have questions but it's a really simple cross-section uh mas dot standards. This is an aerial plan of the project itself. And you can see here um the blue finger is the filled tidelands

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area and our project limits are going to show up on the next screen. They cross through right here in this spot over the access road. Um if you'll recall, we presented to your board or to this commission previously for the roundabout project which was a phase one of our

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MEEPA filing and this access road is phase two. So, we've already been through a MEEPA process for the vast majority of this project aside from chapter 91 for this filled tideland area. Um, the other component that is

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still outstanding is an amendment to the state highway access permit. This pro uh issued by Masdot this project a butts against Masdat property. And let just on this last page here, this is the Rumny Marsh. That pink line is the Rumny

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Marsh. And I don't know if you can see it here, but the uh 100red-year flood zones meander in and out of this project, which relate which result in these uh cut fill tables for the net

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impervious materials. Um the pink is new impervious material. And you can see these two little sidewalk squares that are on either side of that crossing to the approach into Gibson Point are new. Um we are constructing under the

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roundabout project this leg of the roundabout. It's labeled Gibson Way. However, we are limited to scope uh in our scope to the state highway layout line and we're not crossing that under the current project. When we do cross that, that's where we introduce the new

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pedestrian curb ramps, and that's why there's these tiny little areas of new impervious material. This portion here is already constructed, and so we're not showing it as new material because it exists right now. Um, finally, Julie touched on this

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already. The big benefit here is the connectivity. Uh this is going to give access to that side of 1A to the Gibson Park which is going through great new improvements. We want to make sure everybody in the community is able to access that safely um and without

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creating a cut through through the end of that neighborhood. I can show you on this past slide this limit of work here is where there right now it's shown as Ballards. Um that could be a gate. I think that's something that we're working with the Gibson Park Resiliency

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Project that uh to make sure that that access is closed. Um we are showing these ballards to make sure that it is closed. >> Do you mind if I ask you a question? Can you go back one one page? >> Yeah. >> I just don't want to get lost here. You had the improve the reasons for the

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project like the improvements. Yes. Um that one. Okay. >> So the the first bullet point you have is improves local connectivity. >> Correct. So, if I lived in Riverside area, I can imagine I probably wouldn't want people cutting through there constantly to the neighborhood. That I

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that part I get. But then the local connectivity part is that park that's being improved upon now with that gate there, it makes it much more difficult for the people of Riverside to get to use that park. So my my question is that is have you spoken to the people in that

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neighborhood and had communication and conversations with them in regards to their feeling of being pro for one thing and maybe not on the other. I just want to >> so I I just want to clarify that. Um and so so myself and El Baker, we were part

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of the original design meetings for the master plan for the riverfront. And it was made abundantly clear in many of meetings that the neighborhood of the riverside

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did not want people going through their neighborhood to access the boatyard, the park. So, and we but we were very clear with okay, we're going to do everything we can to make sure that your

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wishes are granted. However, we cannot shut off access to police and fire. >> Of course not. Yeah. >> And so, right now, our plans, I believe, show Ballards. I believe the Gibson Park resiliency plan shows a swing gate and

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that really is going to be determined by the fire department who have already been out there. So the determination of what is going to be at the end of that entrance of the park is going to be based on Chief Cullen's recommendation from his guys that are on the apparatus

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that are going to be doing water rescues, whatever they say we're going to do. And that is going to supersede whatever design anybody would like to see at the end in terms of shutting out access. I'm sure a lot of people that that would watch this would want me asking that question which

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is why which is why I'm asking that question >> and and that is fine and I think I think the but the reality is we are trying to work with a neighborhood that feels like this neighborhood this neighborhood has been very quiet for a long time. It's

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very remote. Access to it is difficult. >> And you know, and they have >> experienced probably more people moving into their own neighborhood that have more cars in the family than they're used to. That used to be a very familyoriented neighborhood. People live

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there for years. The houses are turning over. People are renting more. So, we are trying to keep the peace with the neighborhood. And I do appreciate the question, but I I want it made perfectly clear that this was this was a

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well-heard as numerous of times during these meetings. I'm going to let you >> Yeah, I just wanted just wanted to clarify that >> Baker um project manager for the Gibson Park uh resiliency project and I would echo exactly what Julie said. We've been working together for six years now,

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finally having some of these projects come to fruition. since it's been a long time and we are exactly doing as Julie said which is granting the requests and the recommendation and the pleas from the Riverside neighborhood to not have additional vehicles with the additional

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amenities you know coming through the neighborhood. So we've worked very closely with the fire department. Julie and I were just down there just a month ago um talking through what that best case scenario will be and as we work through um we'll be finalizing that with the fire department and the neighborhood

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is um being granted what they had asked for initially. >> I did Julie. >> No, you're welcome. >> I did have one idea. I don't know if this is even feasible but um I have seen that you know people can have cards that would be uh that would open a gate that you could use. I don't know if that's a

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possibility where the police and fire would be able to have that to open. We get maybe the neighbors >> the fire department will be will have access in that way but that will be strictly for the fire department. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So it's like

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>> limiting access to that area. >> Yeah. And it's like one master key. >> Whatever this locking system is, it's one master key and [snorts] only the police and fire have access to it. >> Okay. And I believe it's always on the engines. I don't I we can get

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confirmation from Chief Cullen on that, but it's always on the engines. And then that way if they need to need to get in there, but knowing rever fire, if they can't find the key, they're busting through that gate. So I want to stress that that they're going to do everything

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they can to do to to get to the person or whatever the situation is there in terms of public safety. >> Okay. Well, thank you. I I just wanted to when this was coming up that was something that you know >> and and I and I understand because this question has come up quite a bit for us as a planning team from other people in

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the city who say you know I should be able to access the park. I should be able to pull into the parking lot from either side of the area. I just think if I'm a neighbor next door and I have this beautiful park and I want to take my kids and to have to you know drag a 2-year-old and you know and you

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have in the car just little things like cuz I I just pick always picture myself in this in this position here. I always think to myself if I was a neighbor to whatever the project is, how would I feel? I would I think of that person. So that's why I I always ask questions in

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regards to how they would feel. And I totally understand if there's cars whipping by my house all day. I would not want that. So, it's great that you're doing that, but then I think on the other side of if there was a way for my family to use this beautiful park, we're maybe three streets over and you know, so it's good to hear that it's

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been a thoughtout process. I just wanted to bring that up. >> Yeah. I mean, and I think the one thing about the Riverside neighborhood is that it is extremely walkable. >> Close. Yes. >> And and everything is very dense. So, I think the walk shed I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think it's less

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than a half a mile. If you're at the very end of Mil Avenue and you're walking back, I think it'd be definitely more difficult for people that are from Oak Island um to walk over the Lynway and that way. Um but there again, they

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can cut through um the Dashwood AB and with the street that Kelly's is on and then they have to go down the boulevard and turn around to get back over to that to that side. So, um, but we're hoping that once this is all done, people have

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a beautiful place to go and just take some quiet time or play with their kids or whatever it may be. Any other questions about park access before we move on to Peter? Yeah, >> if I I I do live in Oak Island and I go

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to that park a lot and I am disappointed in the access that was is being granted that I would have liked to cut through uh for people in my neighborhood, but I do respect Riverside's opinion on this, but I thought feel like it's a little misited from the people in that

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neighborhood. They're going to hate me for saying that cuz I cuz I live right cuz they're my neighbors. think it's a big miss for that project not to have it, but it's done and that's what it is. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> You can. >> Anybody else have any other comments?

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>> We're uh we'll get to comments afterward. This is just for the commissioner at this point. >> Sure. >> It's going to have you finish your >> Yes. Thank you very much. Um so this is an anticipated timeline. Uh we are and we are awaiting a chapter 91

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permit issue uh following uh the NOI number which we were issued before this hearing. Um the state highway access permit we have we're going to amend the existing access permit. This is at the direction of mass dot that we already have for the roundabout to include the

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abudding property here. um in spring of next year and then summer of next year we're going we're anticipating that we'll advertise for construction and complete by the end of 2027. Um that last window there that is the construction season. It is like I said

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we anticipate a short construction window um because it's not a huge construction demand. Right. The design process where we're at now our MEPA filing is complete. Our 50% plans were designed and accepted by both Revier and Mastat had opportunity to

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review and comment. We have finalized our plans. They are stamped. We submitted to this commission and we're finalizing environmental permitting. The last stop here is the state highway access permit um needs to be issued. That is something where we don't

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anticipate any comments from chapter 91 that'll change our design. We don't anticipate our design changing at this point. However, if there are changes required by MASDOT or chapter 91, we of course will submit those changes to this commission. Um, but as of right now, we

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believe the design is complete and I think that is the end of our presentation. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. So, first we're going to have anyone that's on the commission that would like to ask questions. Afterward, then we'll open it up to anyone in the chambers that would like to ask questions. But, um, open it up to

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anybody on the commission that has a question. >> Yeah. So ultimately I'm going to recuse myself due to personal and professional relationships with Western and Samson. Uh that said, has Meepa approved your plans yet? >> Yes, Meepa has. >> Okay. Um and is there an opportunity to

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get um more impervious surface somewhere else to >> it within the limits of our project? It's really tough because it's such a small footprint, but we the net impervious material um because that mea filing included this as a phase project

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with phase one being the roundabout and phase two being the access road. That net impact does introduce uh new imperous areas in that roundabout footprint and we can share that information um following up after this meeting. >> And alternative paving solutions weren't

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looked at at all. You know it like a pvious pavement material. >> Pavers >> um >> permeable pavement anything >> we well pavers would still be impervious. Correct. >> No. >> Um the the >> is this permeable pavers?

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>> We can consider perable permeable pavers. >> I mean it's it's essentially it's essentially a driveway. You want it to look nice. >> Are we considering this for the roundabout or are we considering this for the access road? >> For this for this road >> for this project. The access road. It's

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an 8,000 square foot increase in imperous material. That's a lot. >> Yeah. Um we we did not consider pavers, but we that's something we could make that change. >> I again I'm going to excuse myself, but I would strongly consider permeable

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pavers. That's it for me. >> Look into that. >> Yeah, we will we'll definitely consider that. I I don't want to commit to it right now, but that's I think it's a great suggestion and we can absolutely consider. >> Anyone else on the commission? >> Uh you Mr. Chairman, my colleague brings

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up a good point. Uh over the years, uh anything that's been in the in the conservation area, if it was already asphalt, uh we allowed that them to keep that. But if there was any kind of new area, we weren't allowing any kind of buminous

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product to be added extra into the flood plane. Consequently, on a lot of these projects, these people are with new houses with a new driveway, let's say, are putting pavers in, hydraulic cement,

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uh, or anything that won't be uh impervious and oil-based. And, uh, Tom makes a good point here. You're adding new buminous material. Correct. >> Correct. >> Which is something that we shy away from normally.

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>> Typically we don't allow that. >> Okay. That's I >> Yeah, we will consider that's great recommendation. I I just want to say that I want to make sure that I mean booze we already received an order of condition from this

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commission for the roundabout and that was based off of Meepa's recommendations for the project. Um, we will definitely consider the use of pavers in addition to what we have proposed, but I would

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hope that the commission would be um somewhat favorable to following the order conditions that was issued for the roundabout because these two projects do tie in together. Uh they are and this

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access road is going to be the the piece that brings [snorts] everybody to the park. Yeah. No, I get it and I get the project builds off of the initial project, but that order of conditions was issued for phase one. This is phase two. We weren't introduced to this driveway during phase

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one. And to Joe's point, if a citizen who buys a house in Point of Pines comes in here and wants to expand their paved driveway area, we say no, you have to use pavers. So why would we hold why wouldn't we hold the city to the same

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standard? So, but do you require uh pavers for a driveway that is more for public access? Is there another project here in the city that you are requiring that at this time? >> A public >> is that the precedence, I guess, is what I'm I'm questioning. Is that the

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precedence for these types of projects? >> The since I've been on the commission, we have not allowed a net increase in imperous pavement, >> especially in that area. Regardless, there has not been a road that's come to us or a new road that has

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come to us as as far as my recollection. >> Any anything that's in that area, it's the flooding in that whole area is brutal. Um for the people like we have someone on our commission who lives in that area and can attest to what the flooding is like there. Um it's pretty

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bad. So being able to have it that now that water has to go somewhere, not having it being permeable is not something that is a great thing. I I would highly advise if more than just looking into it if it be something that you would do. Um how big of a difference

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would it be for you guys to make that change? I would I'm going to leave that to uh Howard Stein Hudson and also in Weston and Samson the environmental review that was put forth for this and we are basically following whatever Meepa issue

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has issued in that uh MEPA filing. So whatever they said you need to do we're here we're doing it. Um, so I mean, >> yeah, and the the only context I want to add is when we did uh submit the roundabout pro project and filed with

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MEEPA, that did include this phase 2 and the asphalt driveway as part of that filing. So that is part of the MEEPA filing and that impervious area is calculated in the total project with phase one and phase two combined. So >> So what are those what are those numbers then?

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>> I don't have it off the top of my head. >> Yeah. So, we're we're here tonight for the for the Gibson Park Access Road. If you need to see >> But you can't you can't reference phase one. >> But if your rescue say if you need to see the filing for the whole project, we

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can do that. And I can also send you the order of conditions that was submitted to us by this commission for the roundabout. >> When was the roundabout order conditions issued? >> It was last year. Yeah, >> Tom actually brought up two things that

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I was concerned about. The first one, I would like to disclose that as the deputy superintendent of public works in Wuburn. I do business with Wesson and Samson as well as the contractor um um Heimlick Landscaping that's doing work at the park. I don't think that is means

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for me to recuse myself because I don't actually cut the checks or hire them. If anybody disagrees with that, I will I will recuse myself, but I'd like to not if I don't have to. >> I would just state for for that for for Tom makes sense. For yourself, if you're

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not actually doing business with them where you could be influenced in any way, shape, or form, then I think it's your judgment call whether or not you want to recuse yourself. I wouldn't >> I don't think I have to. I just wanted to let everybody know that I do. >> I'm glad that you're open and transparent about it. I would not recommend for yourself or Tom. I and I

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just want to make sure that it is on the record that Tom did recuse himself from this vote. Um but Anthony, I leave that up to you, but I >> I think I'm in the clear, but I wanted people to know. >> No, that's perfectly fine. We're all about transparency. >> Now, I did have a concern about the impervious surface that was going to be

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added if if I could through you to Wesson and Samson. Um, what you could consider in this scenario is making up for the for the storage that you're going to take up. Maybe have some kind of infiltration

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system around the new imperous surface. figure out what you need for cubic uh square feet of water and maybe we could dig some kind of a trench with crushed stone or I don't I guess the real question should be is what what's the

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seasonal high groundwater over there and if that's even possible but that could be a good way for the water to run off or is there is there any kind of drainage system being added to it? Will there be any drain there? There's a there's a culvert we're putting in. Um

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but the it's and I can show you. >> Um there is a closed drainage system that's going in to collect the runoff from the road and it's tying into >> this is the new the new >> correct >> the the >> I'll show you. >> Okay.

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Where's that going to run off to? Is that running running? Um >> so these you can see it's very small but these here are new catch basins. You want to make it >> at the project limit. Yeah. Can we >> And these catch basins are going to be

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on the access road that we're talking about, >> correct? Yes. >> Okay. >> And who's responsible for cleaning those? Who's who's got the m who's got the hook? The city or >> city reve? Yes. Okay. So, this right here, these two catch basins are going to tie into

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this manhole. And that manhole connects into the existing uh storm sewer network through Gibson Park. Where's where's that? Do you know where that outlets? >> Uh outlets in Is going the ocean >> out at the park >> or into the Sus River.

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>> Okay. And can the existing infrastructure handle? >> Yeah. >> What's coming? That's been tested. You guys have checked that. It can handle water report that goes along with that. >> The the basins and I apologize. I should I should know this. Are are these is there going to be anything in the B? Are

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do they have the vortex in them? You know, the vortex separators. So, the water quality units, will those be in these catch basins or is this going to be just a deep sump basin? Nothing in it basically is what I'm asking. >> I believe it's the ladder. I don't think

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uh the I don't know that we have water quality units inside. >> Okay. The only reason I asked is it changed the maintenance schedule on it. It's a little bit different of a piece of machine, but >> sure. I think that if you with I'm okay with adding pvious surface in a lot of

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areas if we have a good system for the runoff to go somewhere else and as long as it doesn't go to somebody else's property, >> right? >> If that makes sense. So, if this water is not going to be running off towards the park, great. if it's not going to be running off going towards

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the um apartment complex and it's assured that it is going to run off, you know, in a we'll say a 1 in storm, it can handle >> that kind of rain, >> you know, I mean, in a 100redyear storm, we're all in trouble over there, so it doesn't matter at that point, >> right? Yeah. In that condition, the

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whole area is underwater. But this uh it th this >> road the entire new proposed access road will drain to these catch basins and [clears throat] they that is uh we've done the calculations to test that it

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the entire surface is able to be contained within that >> is is there any curbing around this that would help direct the rest of the offload head in that direction? >> Yep. There's new curb proposed on either side to help contain it. >> I'd be okay with it. Well, I mean I

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guess start how it is, but >> any other questions from anyone on the commission? >> You mentioned about new plants that would be added >> with with multiple projects running at the same time. What what is the I would

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like to have something for the survival of those plants like something for two years or that way I just don't want with the other projects going on that this get um destroyed by by the other >> or uh like a a maintenance requirement.

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>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Yeah. Something there. Maybe maybe a survival rate for those plants for maybe 80% 90% of those plants. maybe for two you two years. >> Yeah, I if that's something I think we could probably put in the construction

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specs to put it on the whatever landscaper installs them. If there's an example of that type of uh agreement, I'd love to see if you could share that and I we'd just put your preference right into the construction specs. >> Yeah. So, I'm I'm sure whoever is doing the work is going to have a list of the

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plants and how many. I just would like by in two years from the planting season that probably in two years at least 80% will be still active with all that's going on. I I would like to make sure that those plants are are there.

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>> We do that. >> Yeah. >> Is any other any questions or anything from anyone on the commission? >> Anthony, >> this might be a city or river question. Anytime I think about adding new pavement and fire trucks going down, my

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biggest concern is winter and hoping that the basins get properly cleaned so that they don't get clogged up so that we don't have water there that it doesn't freeze over and then the fire truck goes ice skating um down the you know towards the new Gibson point. So I

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don't know if that's a you or if you can direct that to um the DPW to please stay on top >> maintenance of the catch basins. >> Yes, that would be a city of Riviera DPW >> requirement. They would have to clean out those catch basins. That's something

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that needs to be done routinely anyway. >> Yeah. I'm just saying because the whole point of the access is for safety and then if we're skating a fire truck through there in the middle of winter, that's a nightmare. >> So thanks One last you mentioned this is going to

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take a couple of months this project. >> Yeah. >> Phase two, right? Phase two is going to take only a couple of months, right? >> Yeah. A couple not meaning two. I might have spoken that casually. I think closer to four months would be my >> Okay. Nothing during the winter time. >> No, we're we're not that's assuming no.

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I mean, we're not planning on needing to do weekend construction or nights or anything like that. >> Fair enough. Thank you. >> All right. Any anyone else on the commission have any questions? Did fire department review this for turning radiuses? I'm >> sorry. >> Did the fire department review this for turning radiuses? Yes. Radi?

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>> Yep. >> They were okay with that. >> Yeah. >> Different standards, private, public, I guess. All right. >> Okay. So, what we do now, just for everyone in the audience to know, we're going to allow the people from the audience to be able to speak. At that point, when they're done, we will close

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the public hearing and then everyone on the commission will be able to discuss amongst ourselves on what we would like to do with this project. And then if we have any additional questions, we'll have them for you as well. >> Do you want me to leave this computer here or do you want me to take it away while people come up to the podium? >> Yeah, you can you can take it away if

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you like. Oh, excuse me. You can leave it in case someone has a question. Yeah, you can leave it in case someone has a question in regards to it. But um at this point, if anyone would like to speak, I have a strong feeling I know the first person who does. >> Yeah, I do know it's going to be me. >> Please, uh I you may need to introduce

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yourself. I don't think anyone knows who you are. >> Yeah. Okay. Um Angelino SA wood five counselor. Um, okay. The residents have been texting me throughout this whole process. Um, they want to reiterate that they do not

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want any car access through Riverside once this job is complete. Um, that the residents can all walk to the park. That's number one. Um, they wanted to know why we couldn't just put this access road

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as part of the Rotary instead of it going through the park. >> Can somebody answer that? And then, can I see where this access road is actually going in color? Like, so I know exactly where it is in that park. Is it on

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there? Is it what they're breaking ground on underneath the overpass? >> So, Angela, I did the site visit. So, it's if you're staring at the park, if you're standing in the parking lot of the park to the left of that, there's that like road there. That's it. There's

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that that a car can kind of just come in and out. They're just closing that. So, it's if you're staring at the park, it's to the left of you where the cars wouldn't see. >> Is it going on there? >> No, it's not. >> Not at all. No. >> Okay. That was >> that goes up.

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>> I'll I'll have her answer. But I'm just just >> they want to know. So, if we can explain it a little bit more to the residents that are watching, I think it would be really important. >> I'll have them come up and answer those questions for you now. But just just for anyone that is watching, if you're standing in the parking lot of the of the park and you're looking at the park

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like it's in front of you to the left of you, that's where I mean when I came to visit it, I came in through that road and parked. Now, that road would be closed off. You came in through the road and parked at Gibson Parking lot. Is that where you're talking about? >> Yeah, where the park is. I came in

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through Riverside and I pulled in and I It's like a like a one car can kind of get through area. I pulled in and then I parked there. That area is being clo from what they've told me. They explained to me on the site visit that's being closed right there. So, I would not be able to get to the park from

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Riverside if with this going through. >> Okay. So by car where they're leveling off the land underneath the bridge. >> So the bridge would be the other side. >> The bridge The bridge is >> No, the one Okay. The If you're looking at the park stand

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behind me at the mountain and then and then with with that mountain, they're leveling it off. >> It looks like it looks like they're clearing the dirt from there. Is that where it's going? >> No. No, that is not where it's going. No, it's so it they're just talking about if you're flat level. It's like

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flat level, standing on the ground looking at the park. Still flat level where you would bring a car in from Riverside to get to that parking lot without moving any dirt or anything. What's already there? They're closing off that right there. >> And it's not going through the park, right? Or it is

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>> it's it is >> it is going through the park. >> Correct. >> Now, what happens if the kids are playing in the park and something happens and and the car revs off the road? >> Well, that's a good question for this guy right here. I it's just I'm I'm reading all the questions that people

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are sending me and it's just they they do make sense >> they why and get off the rotary. >> So I looked at the plans too and this is before I went there. I looked through the plans and I was trying to understand it. This is the same issue that we had originally with the phase one project

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which you know you guys came in front of us multiple times and we we kept saying at nauseium we don't understand what is happening in this project from the from the descriptions that you guys gave. This is one of those times where having visited more times like mentioned this

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is one of those where being there and seeing it what they're doing closing off that section makes more sense seeing it. But I'm gonna I'm gonna let him discuss and your questions basically. >> Okay. Then I have one more. Um I just want to say that I do agree with Tom and Joe >> because this is an area of critical

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environmental concern and it should be semi-permeable material that is being put there. If if I can't do it in my yard, if I can't do it in front of my house, then the city should know better because they're not allowing us to do it and they shouldn't be doing it either. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. So, I'm going to let you guys respond to what um she said and then for for those that still want to talk um you will be able to just after they respond. >> Sure. >> Um you type your password in >> and then I can answer um the the first answer is an easy one. We the the first

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thing we tried to do was to add a fourth leg to the roundabout to connect directly to the park and masot wouldn't allow it. It's uh there the traffic volumes don't work. The turning radius doesn't work. And to add basically a leg

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if you can see the screen here more or less and this is uh you know a difficult way to show it but from the corner here to connect to where we're trying to go or basically to try to do Oops.

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>> Yeah. And then the we also dealt with it would trigger uh article 97, right? >> Yeah, that was a big part of it. >> That was a big part of it as well >> for for well article 97 is not why we couldn't do this leg like this is I think what you're kind of describing

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right connecting directly like this. >> We tried to create that condition and it it doesn't work with the footprint we have. There's not a way because we have uh a few geometric constraints. The first one is the bridge that we cross

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under here, the route 1A bridge itself. We cannot lower the bridge deck or raise the bridge deck because we can't move the bridge. And then likewise, we can't raise or lower the road beneath the bridge because we have to maintain clearance underneath it. Because of

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that, we have to have a certain distance to approach the roundabout. And that radius also is dictated by the approach to go up the on-ramp. The down the off-ramp also has a required stopping site distance that people need to you to follow to exit

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safely. And all those things really lock in the center location of the roundabout. With that center location of the roundabout where it is, there's not a way to connect these two pieces, the parking lot to the roundabout in any other way other than there's not a way

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to do it directly. So the the best negotiation we could find with Mass Dot was to add that leg into this intersection here, which is what ties off into the Gibson Point property and connect to the park that way.

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So that's that's the answer for that one. I I would have loved to tie it directly to the roundabout, too, but it just geometrically it does not work. Um I think the second question was um just kind of a better description of where this is and what it looks like.

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And I can show you this is the this is the roundabout. This is the image that I think does a good job of showing. So this gray area here, the dark gray, that is the proposed roundabout. That is the proposed roadway

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that ties in. And if you've been I I know you've been out here. The the the access road that comes >> I'm sorry. >> So you have to pull it all the way down. >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is >> this is just an image. So that's where we cut it off.

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>> Um this >> in the future if you can have an actual photo. >> So we I mean I I have the >> Yeah, go ahead. >> You know what? They don't tie into the >> the reason we show it this way without a photo is because we're showing the

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future condition of the >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'm a visual learner. you are if you showed me I saw it in person >> um I saw it in person so for me it was very clear of what this is but I'm just

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putting myself in the mind of somebody who is contacting Angela or watching this to like >> if they could see what you're talking about maybe they're confused so just in the future even just two photos of this is the park of where we're standing to the left this is it might just clear

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things up for people >> Mr. chairman. Y >> now that they have this image, I have a question. Uh because I'm starting to get a little bit of orientation here, but I'm still confused. So, can I give you a scenario here? >> Sure. >> If I'm coming from the point of pines, I

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want to drive to this new parking area. Normally, now I have to go over the bridge into Riverside and down and in. Okay, that's how I got today to the site inspection. But according to this plan here, if I'm wrong, you please correct

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me. I'm going to be coming underneath Route 1A where it says Gibson Park Drive from the Pines. Correct. >> Correct. >> Then I'm going to go around the Rotary. >> Mhm. >> And then I'm going to Wait, wait a minute. Now, what do I do? Because there's this dark area right there. Is

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that a barrier there? How am I going to get into that pocket area? >> Oh, no. That's that's I'm sorry. That's just a line to show the limits of the project. that >> the white part is is something there. >> So you would so you would come here and turn in >> there's a little island there, right?

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>> Which where the cur I'm coming around the rotary is that >> oh yes >> he's saying that if you go around then where are you going where that little white thing is you just had it like how are you how are you getting to that road? It looks like you're about to drive over a rotary.

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>> Plus there's a crosswalk there too. >> Yes. Just before you access that the the road. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're coming around here and and and you go in across the crosswalk and there be to your left and and you get into the parking area. Is that correct?

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>> Island and the crosswalk. >> Yeah. >> This is He's Joe is very right about this. I'm just looking at this. So, where it says the G in Gibson, see that? So, the thing above that, what is that? That right there. Yeah. What is that? >> This white part is a raised median. >> Okay. This is not This is depressed. You

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are able to drive over this. This is a flat surface. >> Okay. You can understand how looking at this, it looks like this would be like an obstacle course to try to get to the park. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And the the crosswalk is included just for pedestrian safety. Just like any intersection, we we mark the crossings

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just to make sure that people can can feel safe when they're crossing. >> And let me go one step further. I'm sorry. >> I'll put it back on. Same same scenario coming from the pines. I want to go up route 1A

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south. So I go underneath I go around the rotary and I go to that uh ramp B. >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. >> Yep. And that that is all under construction now. That is a >> that's where they have that I think

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that's what Angela was referring to. That's where they've cut that. You you were going to put a wall or something there, right? >> Yeah, there's going to be a big wall. There's two walls on either side of this ramp B, but again, that is a separate project that is different from this access one that includes two major walls

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that are going up. >> Yeah. >> In in regards to what Joe brought up at the site visit, um our chair, uh Nick Rudolph had to stop a kid from climbing all the way up to almost the highway area from from there. So, I would just

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advise uh maybe putting something up or I don't know, something because it just looks like an area that looks it looks like it's about to be a place to drive a car up. So, I can understand why people would think that, but now kids are using it as like king of the mountain. Um probably not the best. >> So, that so that area is actually going

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to be under full construction next week. So, that whole area is going to be fenced off. Um so, it'll be tying off from the fence there to the edge of the bridge. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um I'm going to now have it for anyone

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else that has questions. >> Um my name is Chlor Pantoa. I live in the Point Pines area. My question is with these consecutive projects um do you guys have plans for what you're going to do for all the small mammals,

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birds? There's different species of birds. There's rare plant species in the area. >> Talking to the >> There's rare plant species in the areas. There's different bird species, small mammals, and the different fish in the area. Um there's going to be ton of

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pollution coming from all the pavement. Um the noise pollution, just everything. And never like it affects the community, but it also affects all the animals and wildlife in the community as well. We also have um threatened endangered plant

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species in the area that are also you know on the beach side and on that side we have the plum beach a 90° angle tree that's right you know on the coastal wetlands area of the park and just being there for an hour yesterday I've seen

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many families come in disappointed children disappointed that they can't even access the park at this moment you know you guys just put in tons of money to make the playground rubbery to allow access for everyone, you know, all abled

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uh people. Why would you just completely destroy that to create another field and add all this access way? Like I understand it may be a little difficult to get there. However, um you know, there's going to be a lot of damage to

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the environment. Not even just the community, but a lot of animal environments. Like there's so many different animals, coyotes, bunnies, birds, everything. >> Do I step back on that? That's that's something that honestly I I can't answer

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that. So, I'm going to let you >> I mean, so I So, this project has gone through more environmental reviews than we I I don't think we've ever done in our department. Um, it has been reviewed not only by MEPA, it has been reed by uh

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coastal um coastal zone management. Um, we've also had uh I can't speak for the park project in terms of the review, but I do know that when we went through our MEP profiling, there was no evidence of

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endangered species, wildlife, plants, shellfish of any kind. Um, and if there was, we would have had to um adhere to whatever the filings was from Meepa. In terms of the park not being accessible right now, the park is

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a construction site. Um, and staff that is dealing with that is doing everything they can to keep keep people out of the park and out of the construction site. I know this could there's protective fencing put all around the park at this point.

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And that is to protect you from accessing a construction site. Now, I know right now it looks like everything is still in place, but I think probably by the week's end or next week, you're going to see um you know, bulldozers ripping up grass and turf and putting

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down a new multi-use field, uh putting in drainage, that part of the project. Um but and I can't speak for the resiliency part of um the park, but everything has been

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met and assessed to adhere to endangered wildlife plantings and there was none found. >> Clover >> the piping clover is on the river beach side.

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They're Yeah, they're on River Beach takes very good care of our piping clovers. >> Yeah. And and they and that is something the DCR rangers when they see any types of eggs or anything, they immediately close that they close that section down.

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>> Take it very seriously. >> Peter, I don't know if you have anything to add to that. >> Okay. Um, >> and just so I can get ahead of is there anyone else in the audience that has any questions in regards to this project or

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was that it? >> What? >> Yeah. Thank you guys for hearing us. I know this has been a long uh discussed project for many years and it's attached to other projects that have been long discussed. I think the pvious papers are something the the only reason I'm not saying we're going to do it is because I

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don't want to commit to something that I can't 100% guarantee, but to me that sounds very reasonable and I think it's a change that we can make to these plans. um >> if there's anything else that I can help answer. I know that there's and additional comments come up if that's

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changed anything that you guys have other questions. >> Well, what we're going to do now is I'm going to close the hearing. Okay. >> Um and that at that point, we as a commission are going to we we have to open discussion laws. So, us discussing this project, we're going to discuss it openly for everyone to hear, but we're

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going to if we have additional questions for you, it'll be at that point. Great. Um but is there anyone else in this audience has any other questions? Okay. So, at this point, I'm going to close the hearing. We as a commission are going to discuss any questions that we have or anything that we want to get

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clarified. At that point, we'll be able to ask you additional questions, which we may need to. Um, but I I throw it to everyone here. Even though Tom is not voting on this, he has full rights to be able to discuss this, ask questions, and everything. So um is there anybody on

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the commission that wants to ask a question or have something they want to talk about? >> I just want to break today about I would like like the log or keep status so that maybe the resident about being conscious about the environment the

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plants are being removed and I heard that native plants will be added after the project for this. So again, just would like to make sure we keep a log of how many plants will be added and also the survival rate rate for at least two

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years after the planting season. So that way we we do the best we can like by having this information. Hope this helps. And so we would like to have a list to see it and after the the planting season and two two years after

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make sure those plants are still there. I I hope this this helped you a little bit and >> no and >> yeah no I'm glad that people care about the environment that's one of the reasons I am here and a lot of us are in

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here protecting the environment so yeah thank you >> yeah we're we're happy to provide that and and the 80% retention rate after two years is what you mentioned and we'll include that in our yeah >> thank

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All right. So, say to everyone in the commission, is there any other concerns that not even to them to us to discuss that you have on this project? >> I just don't feel comfortable setting the precedent that a public entity can

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pave imperous areas, but the private can't. So, if I was voting, I would ask for a revision in the plans or at least a hard look at the multitude of permittable behavior options.

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>> Yeah. I I mean, the the only reason I'm having you're sensing any hesitation for me on that because it seems very reasonable is because we are coordinating this very closely with Masot and I want to make sure that this is Rever property. It's Revier's decision on what material goes in there. They'll have to maintain it. I want to talk to public works and make sure they

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understand the maintenance implications of this and what those changes are. I want to make sure that Masdot understands that we'd be changing the material because that's a different condition than what they've seen. But what you're saying makes a lot of sense and and we'd be happy to include pavers on this project. I don't see a reason

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why that would inhibit the you know anything with fire, anything with maintenance. As long as they're on board, I think that's a very reasonable request. Okay. Is there anybody else has any anything they want to discuss? >> Mr. Chairman, are we going to give an order of conditions?

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>> Well, we have the ability to do that. The only problem is is that by us doing an order of commission going to hold up this project um for at least another month or so and potentially a while. Um the other thing is is that with an order of conditions for them um there's a

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chance that they may not be able to do this for a variety of reasons. And I'm not looking to stop the project. It's not our goal as a commission is never to stop a project. Our goal is to find a way forward, but to make sure that it's done in an equitable and correct way.

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So, you know, you being able to say that you are going to look into permeable pavers. I mean, I believe one of the reasons I'm on this commission is to make sure that things are done fairly for everybody, but that this is the right thing for the environment, the right thing for that project. But I

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if you have something to say, you welcome. >> I was just going to say to Peter's point about um maintenance issues and and the issue with the per the per the pavers um could it very well be a huge maintenance issue for the city of River. Um and I

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know that Rick Nick Rystrom the city engineer has looked at these plans and he did not call for that specification when he looked for it. Um, so even if it is issued here, we may have a very terrible time of trying to get DPW and

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engineering to agree to something like this because this access road is going to be on city review project property. Um, and then we are on the hook for maintaining it. And the pavers, they're beautiful. They look amazing. Um,

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however, there is a maintenance issue to them and that will increase with it's not like putting pavers down in your driveway. >> No, I I understand what they are. >> So, I I think if if this is something that this commission is looking for, we

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really need to get guidance from the people that are going to be maintaining it and it's not going to be coming out of the Department of Planning and Community Development. So, I want to kind of just say once this project is is is built, we will do our best to make

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sure that the plantings are kept and guaranteed for two years, but the overall maintenance over the long haul is really going to be left to whoever is standing at the end of the day working in these positions. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I've done tens and

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20 and 30,000 miles of pa patios, driveways, walkways, roads, cities. >> So, if you want to provide us with some examples, I think we do need to run this up to change. We need we need to talk with the engineering department about

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this and see if our DPW will even allow us to >> to even consider this. So, I don't know what the budget is in other communities you've worked at, but you know, right now the city is dealing with the budget

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shortfall. Um, and this project, the the park project is being paid through all through grants. None of it is coming out of city funds. >> So, I'm very comfortable with the plan that that is set forth. They have a good

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uh storm water management plan, assuming it is done properly by the contractor. The asphalt should grade towards these catch basins, which we're being told can handle the amount of water that's going to send. It'll properly discharge the water away or shed it the way it's

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supposed to go. So, basically, they've added storage, water storage, but they're removing it. They're going to have curbing up which will keep the water I mean the my guess is how wide is the curbing going to be up like six inches. So you have about a I mean if you're getting more than 6 in we're done

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anyways. >> So the pavers are going to be be under. The water will get redirected as it's supposed to. If the DPW keeps a good maintenance schedule and cleaning those catch basins and going and jettting out the storm drains, I think it'll probably

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go. I might even be better than having pavers that might take water and it might take a I don't know how long it would take for the water to filtrate underneath the pavers as opposed to moving along on the on the asphalt. As well as when it comes to plowing, I know

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where where I work, anything that deals with pavers, we have a at Han Pond, we have pavers, and when we have to plow, all we do is rip those things up. >> Yeah. No, I I understand. And I >> and and I just want to clarify, take a good look at Bell Circle, okay? There's pavers in Bell Circle. They're all

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bunched up. They're coming up. Um we have another project that's going out to bid and the pavers are being removed. We're putting concrete in space of those pavers because pavers, they handle so much weight from the traffic coming crossing over them that they're buckled

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up, they're broken. Um once again, they're beautiful. Aesthetically, they look beautiful for many miles, but in terms of everyday practice and maintenance, it is very [clears throat] difficult to keep up with them. >> Well, I understand with how many eyes are on this project, not just ours, but

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I mean, you've had this reviewed 7,000 times at this point. Um, so I I personally feel comfortable moving forward. I do understand the objections of people that are on this board and why they would make those objections and they're not wrong. Um, I think you guys

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even understand having permeable pavers or permeable everything in especially in that area in River overall 100%. But that area with flooding is a nightmare when it gets bad. We have people that come up in front of us that show us pictures and videos of their backyards

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are swimming pools. So, if we can do stuff to make it so that their lives are easier, I get that. This is further away from This isn't someone's backyard. This is an access road where you're near Gibson Park, near Gibson Point. So, I get it. So,

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>> yeah. >> May I May I >> No, absolutely. >> If I'm not mistaken, let's go back a ways when this project was first proposed and we were talking about everything. I'm going to talk about the height of the uh ballpark

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and how there was going to be material that's going to net have more drainage and more pvious area than than exists right now. But that was before this road.

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Correct. Because this was this road was not in the original proposal. So some sort of access to the park was always in the plans and originally it was this fourth leg coming from the roundabout. The roundabout the area where the

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roundabout exists right now has minimal drainage. We are currently finish up installation. I think it's about 16 17 drains. Peter, how many are we putting in there? We're putting in at least 16 to 17 drains and then another I think

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it's closer to 25 >> 25 drains and then the accompanying manholes and catch basins and everything else that goes along with it. So drainage overall for the area just in the area of the roundabout is going to improve because right now what you have

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there after the winter clears you just have puddles of water. The drainage that we've put in is going to take that water and it is going to go out to the outfall. >> Yes. >> General Roberts bridge. What's >> near the General Edwards Bridge? >> Yeah. Underneath the General Edwards

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Bridge. That's where that is draining to. So the an area in terms of drainage and making it safer for the neighborhood so that it doesn't flood. We're already tackling that through the roundabout. For the Gibson Park access road, this

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has been a difficult design challenge. this to meet the needs of and the wants of the Riverside residents, but then also to be able to connect access through the roundabout

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to the park um without minimal disruption and kind of kind of like you called it earlier an optical course to get to the park that okay whoever call that's fine but if somebody rec that's what they referred to and it's it is a little but

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that is the best design alternative to meet everybody's needs. Um the drainage that we have prepared for the park, we've done a lot of cross analysis [clears throat and cough] to make sure that the tiein in the parking lot of the

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park which is outside of the scope of this um project can handle the storm water runoff and different rain scenarios. Peter, I don't remember what they were, but you there was a lot of forecasting and modeling. Um, and I

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think that if there was an issue about what was being put in its integrity or its capacity to handle future storm runoff, I think it would have been revealed then. Um, and I also think too I'm getting back to the MEP profiling

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because they are they are the the holy grail here in terms of what we need to do and they pretty much dictate the process of this project moving forward for environmental needs before we can even approach a local concom. Um, and I

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I think we need to be mindful of what they're going to require. Um, also mindful of what Mass do requires too. Um and then also what the city is willing to maintain after they take full ownership of this. >> So would you say that when this project

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is done there's going to be a net increase decrease or stays the same of imperous area? >> So it's in >> just just to clarify you saying for phase one and two or just what we're talking about tonight of phase two. >> Well this is this road was not in the

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original proposal. So I'm I'm I'm addressing this particular aspect. So I think they said that phase two is is not going to >> phase two alone is a net increase. Yeah. And the project overall is a net increase in impervious material.

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>> Yes, >> it is. >> Yes. >> But but again I I when this was initially proposed the park and everything that's not the statement that I recall >> park is different >> but it's part of this whole project. No,

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no. This is this is a roundabout. The roundabout and the access road. Well, tonight is just really the access road. Yeah. >> So, Mr. Laval, one of the things that we really tried to push for in the beginning of all this is we tried to file one permit and come up to this

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commission one time and to have the roundabout and the access road filed together. Uh however um Meepa allowed us to file this project as one phase or one project with two phases but MASDOT would

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not accept that and they really push for these projects to be filed separately and to be constructed separately and that is because one of the the roundabout project which is the bulk of most of the reconstruction in the area

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is on Mass dot property. The Gibson Park access road crosses or connects to Mass Dot property, but really is going into um the Redgate property which the city is working on an easement.

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>> Joe, are you good? Anthony, >> I to try to sum this up so I can we can all get a full understanding of this. What I'm what I and correct me if I'm wrong. What I'm understanding is yes, there will be more imperous surface, but uh with current conditions and um

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against current conditions, we'll have more drainage. We'll have less water even though we're getting more impervious, we'll have less water in that location because we'll have better better drainage. Now, uh is the drainage set up for 1in storm, 2year storm? I I

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know a 100year storm is we're all underwater. It doesn't matter. And my my last question on that if you could with the outfalls are they higher than the tide? So where it comes out when the tide comes at when the tide is at its highest let's say it hits a king tide

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are my outfalls still higher if >> you want to answer the drainage part >> the drain. So first answer you asked the answer is yes the that the storm water analysis accounted for a net increase in impervious material and when we came

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here whatever it was a year and a half or two years ago to talk about the imperous material net increase the reason that that was a net increase when we showed the phase one is because we were including this phase 2 work we were showing that phase 2 work that is the main area where we're adding new road

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>> and the whole area has been included including that Gibson Park access which we're here to talk about tonight. That is all included in the drainage catchment system. To answer your specific question about what level of storm was included in that storm water calculation, I'm going to have to go read it real quick. I am not the person

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who wrote that storm water report, but our uh our storm water engineer is not here tonight. >> Well, let's just if I could cut you off. Let's just say this. Let's say it was for a one-inch storm. What I'm trying to get is we can all agree >> that no drainage system is going to be able to handle a 100redyear storm. None.

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>> Right. They're not designed for that. >> Especially at this elevation this close to the >> right. If we're going to get flooded, we're going to be flooded. But my guess is that it could handle a 1 in rainstorm, 2in rainstorm. And in the current situation, even though you're

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going to add impervious uh surface, you're going to have less runoff because you have drain. You you'll have less runoff when the new construction is done because you have more drainage. >> Correct. We are retaining all of the runoff we create. We are >> and currently it's it's going to sit if

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there was no drainage it sits at Gibson until it filtrates until the ground water goes down. >> Correct. >> So it it's an improvement of d of of getting rid of storm water as opposed to as >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Is there anyone else on the commission has any anything else they want to ask?

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Comments, questions, anything? >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um I respect the u my fellow uh commissioners um you know the about this road but um

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I personally think that um in this case because the maintenance issues and and the recommendation from the city um I I think I I'm feel comfortable to move forward. >> Okay. So then I I think it's time to put

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it to a motion. Um so at this point I would ask the commission uh if someone will make a motion to approve the NOI. >> I'd like to make a motion to approve. >> Uh second >> second. >> I So we have two

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Tom can't vote. So Joe second >> yeah it's up to do you how do you want to vote? We get a roll call. >> Can I recommend a roll? >> Then we'll do a roll call. Um Brian

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Averbach, I vote. Uh yes. Tom is going to um abstain. >> Recuse. >> Yep. Um Joe Laval, >> yes. >> Anthony Parzi, >> yes. >> Bernardo, >> yes. >> And Wilson,

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>> yes. >> Okay, the eyes have it. Passes. >> Thank you. Thank you very much for your time here tonight. >> Thank you all. >> Okay, now it's time for Feno Street. >> Good evening.

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Oh, hey, if you're >> Joe. Is this for signatures? Is this for signatures? Just start with me and then I'll pass it down. >> Okay. >> Here. >> Discuss what? >> No, we just approved the project. >> Can I make Can I make

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Can I make a motion that we add a condition? >> No, we already had that. >> What are you going to give me? Stand conditions? >> No. What? The conditions that we already just approved is what it was. >> And what were they? >> The conditions are what was approved by me. >> And we can change the order of

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conditions after after the fact if there becomes an issue that we can add that to. as it was just approved. It was just approved. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Go right ahead. >> Okay. So, what I had not

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requested a guarantee of two years for the plans to be added construction. >> That's what I'm Joe. That's what I'm saying. One thing that was added or requested of the team was to go back and have an analysis to see whether or not

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it would be feasible for >> permeable papers. But you said >> they take that as a take. >> No, no, no, no. We're fine. Yeah, that was part >> what I was saying here. >> No, you got to put the mic on.

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>> Yeah. >> Yes. >> What what I was saying is we can add conditions to an order of conditions. Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. No, I I thought you were talking about what was approved before. >> Yeah. Right. >> Are there add that I do not. >> Well, well, I'd like to make a proposal on a condition. >> No, that's totally fine. Yeah,

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absolutely. >> I would and then we can vote it up or down. I I'm just proposing. >> I guess I didn't understand what you were you were asking. >> So, I would like to add the condition that a there's no net increase in buminous materials used in this project.

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Now, how they get around that is fine with me. It can be hydraulic cement. It can be pavers. It can there is an asphalt that accommodates uh without by by tuminous material if I'm not mistaken. I'm not a contractor.

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[clears throat] >> Thank you. Thank you, Joe. But uh so that's if we put that in then that gives them because the conservation commission is not supposed to tell them what to do. They tell us what they want to do and we tell them yes, no, find

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another way, etc., etc. So, by putting this in, it's it it behooves them to find a uh uh a tactic to use. So, they won't add more buminous material than exists presently in that particular

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area. And if they want to get creative with it, maybe make the parking lot permeable >> versus the access road. >> You know, >> I know I know it's not the same project. >> More than one way to skin a cat. It's all one project.

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>> I mentioned that. Is it one project or two? >> Two separate projects. >> So, can we can we put that to a vote? Believe me, if if I it fails, it fails. >> Okay. I'm I'm fine to be able to do that. Um I would need a motion for

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adding those order of conditions. >> The only one I'm proposing is that there's no net increase in buminous materials. >> I I >> for the project, >> listen, I'm I'm happy to to add that as a if we can get the motion and get it

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approved, but um my feeling is I feel that it's it's not >> Well, the city has a right to appeal that decision, too. >> Yeah. No, I understand. And I just feel like there's my personal opinion on on that is that it's vague enough that it could go

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either way that they could either find a way around it, which may not be the right like I'd want to be able to see before approving that as an order of condition. I want to know exactly how they would be doing it. >> Well, what do you think they're going to do? >> Well, I don't know. That's what that's what I'm saying is I want to find out. >> Well, if they make a change, they have

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to come before us again anyhow with a new plan or a revised plan. But then it pushes the project back >> because now they're going to have to rewrite the whole project if we add that as normal. >> They don't have to rewrite the whole project. All they got to do is change a material. That's all. >> Don't make this bigger than it really

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is. >> Okay. I'm Listen, I'm I'm happy to vote. >> And if they don't like it, they can appeal and that won't take a lot of time at all. D can supersede us. >> Okay. I >> You know, Brian, here's my problem. For all these years, we're telling these people that want to do something that

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they can't do this, they can't do that, and now all of a sudden, we're giving a pass. >> You're not wrong. >> I agree with you. >> What did we just pass then? Did we not just pass that they have an NOI for

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building this what they proposed? >> Yes. >> So, can we are we allowed to change that? I'm I mean, if we are, I don't care. I just don't know if we're within our right. I'm asking maybe it's a legal question. >> No, no, it's I we're able to add an

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additional order of conditions. We are able to do that. >> 21 days, I think. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> 21 days. >> So, we can add that if So, I'll I'll put this up to a vote for those that would like to do it. Um I'm making a motion to approve um this

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additional order of conditions on top of what we already have down for them. Um, do I have a somebody to make the motion? >> I'd like clarification. Is this going forward or >> Yes, you're gone. Yeah,

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>> I I understand. I totally understand. I'm right there with you. >> But we can add a motion at any point. I wasn't ideal for me. >> Okay. So if someone would like to make a motion,

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>> I'll make the motion. Well, I you can't because you have abstained. >> Not this. >> If you abained, >> I voted on the approval of the >> Yeah, but if you abstained from that project, how can you then vote for this? That that to me makes no sense.

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>> Yeah, that's the whole If you are abstaining from one thing, you are abstaining from all of it. >> Okay. I mean, that just to me that just makes sense. [snorts] Um, okay. So, for everyone non-named Tom, um, does someone want to make a

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motion for these? And if we can't get the two people to make the motion first and second, then it would be voted down. >> I made a motion. Now, you need a second. >> So, do we have a second? Okay. If we don't have a second, then that order conditions is voted down.

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Okay. Um, so now we are going to get to Kreno Street. >> Yes. >> Welcome. Thank you for your patience. >> Yeah. Okay. Sorry. One more second. >> It's We did not vote for it. So now >> Okay. Feno Street.

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>> Good evening. Just for the record, my name is Scott Morrison from BHB. I've got a slide presentation that was forwarded. If we could just pull that up. Um, so we filed a request for determination for this Feno Street property, which I'll walk you through. Um, really the purpose of this is for

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planning purposes. There's some questions about jurisdiction on the site and we just wanted to walk the commission through it. Um, I I understand that we've got a sitewalk scheduled for Saturday, so we're going to continue it to allow that to happen. But I just wanted to walk this through as kind of a precursor to anybody that's

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planning on attending. If we can go to the next slide. So, just to get you oriented, the the areas highlighted in red there, Northeast Expressway and Route One is located to the east. To the south of

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that is the um the ramp to River Beach Parkway. To the west of that is uh the city of Chelsea and the Chelsea Housing Authority property. And then to the north is uh Feno Street and the access

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to the property. Next slide. So we filed this request for determination of applicability. We're asking the commission essentially two items. One to confirm that the concrete line diversion channel would meet the definition of canal under the wetlands protection act. And we're also asking

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the commission to confirm the limits of historic dumping grounds and degraded areas under the wetlands protection act. Next slide. So this is the concrete line channel in question. Um, as you can see here, uh,

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there's water in it. It's a, um, it's a titally influenced, um, waterway. It was, um, it it drains Mil Creek. Um, I'll get into the aerial photos, but, the 1952 aerial image shows that the southern portion of this area appeared

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to be a mosquito ditch. The northern area really didn't show anything for a well- definfined channel. Um in 19 sometime between 1952 and 1955 it was diverted and redirected. Um and in 1969

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aerial image suppose uh depicts this channel as a concrete lined um we believe likely um at the same time route one was constructed. This concrete line channel was was constructed and installed. Next slide.

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So this is the historical aerial aerial from 1952. Um, as you see at the bottom of the page, I highlighted what appears to be a mosquito ditch. The area uh in question and the site is in between these two areas. So, it kind of lacks a defined

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channel uh throughout this area. Next slide. By 1955, as you can see here, um same image, same, you know, general view, you can see a clear, diverted, and relocated channel along the eastern side of the

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the property. Next slide. Uh, in 1969, it appears that the the channel was widened and lined with concrete. So, as you can see here, it looks like route one's been constructed in between those slides. So, we believe that this this was widened and lined

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with concrete in 1969. Next slide. So as far as wetlands protection act the definition of uh humanmade canals examples given um two examples are the Cape Cod canal and canals diverted from

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rivers in lol and holy oak uh and mosquito ditches associated with coastal rivers do not have riverfront area. So that's the critical thing we're asking about is we're not saying it's not jurisdictional. We're simply asking the commission to confirm that it's a man-made canal and lacks 200 foot

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riverfront area. There still would be 100 foot buffer zone. So when we work within 100 ft, we would be back before the commission. Um, >> and just so you're aware, we're not voting tonight on whether or not it's a canal. Yeah, we have nothing to do with that at at this juncture. >> Correct. >> Okay. I just want

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>> I I'm just I'm just kind of leading the commission down. Presumably at the next meeting, we'll ask for that vote. >> Yeah. No, I'm >> I'm just trying to lay it all out. I think the easiest way to do this is to to do this presentation before we [clears throat] get out and actually do the the site visit.

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>> And just for for everyone on the commission to understand of of what's happening, we're not voting whether or not we like the project or whatever of what it's going to be or the scope of it or any of that. They're got you're at the one yard line and you've got 99 more yards to go. So, we understand that. But

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I just want everyone here to know that what they're looking for is just an approval to get more information. They're not going to be doing anything bad to the environment as far as looking at it. This is more like um getting our approval to to look into stuff which um they're showing like what it is and the

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amount of things that they they have to look into on this project is mindblowing. Um so this is them their first step before they can really do anything. So we're not really approving appro anything getting built. We're not approve. We're basically just approving

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the okay that it's a negative determination for the RDA. That's it. So when you're looking at this project, just keep that in the back of your head. Your approval of this has nothing to do with anything getting built at this point. >> That's a good point. And this is really the purpose of this is really due

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diligence. >> Yeah. >> Uh next slide. So again kind of D that's the the what showed on the screen before is just simply the definition. So we went to Webster's dictionary for the definition of canal. So it's an

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artificial channel filled. >> You can just go right past this. Yeah. We're not going to doing anything with that tonight. Yeah. >> So as you can see in the photos and we'll see on the site visit. It's the entire length and width of this is concrete lined um and created. So, it's

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our conclusion based upon our analysis that this concrete line channel was diverted in the 1950s and should be deemed a canal lacking a 200 foot riverfront area. This would still have an associated 100 foot buffer zone and require conservation review and approval for any work within the 100 ft of that

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channel. Next slide. So, that's the that's the channel. Um the next question is um if the commission does not deem that to be a canal, the other question that we asked is redevelopment. So if there's

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riverfront area, we have to determine whether it's redevelopment or non-re redevelopment. So as far as redevelopment, um a couple areas that are included as areas that can be um redeveloped would be areas that have the absence of top. top soil,

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junkyards or abandoned dumping grounds as highlighted here. Next slide. So, we went similar to the channel. We went through uh looked at historic dumping grounds based upon the 1978 uh aerial photo. You can see I've

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highlighted a couple areas mo mainly in the southern portion of the site. There's these like wind rows of soil that had been placed there. My guess is it was associated when they constructed um Route One is my guess. There's also some uh dumping grounds and access in

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the northern portion of the site. Next slide. So the critical area here, what we're looking for is areas that were historic dumping grounds or lack top soil prior to the enactment of the Rivers Protection Act, which is 1996. So

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we went back to a 1995 aerial. As you can see in this, there's access and dumping in kind of the central portion of the site. The southern portion of the site still has areas where there's been filled that have been pushed around and kind of made in some wind rows. Next

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slide. We've provided some photos of the the historic dumping. I think the commission's seen kind of the nor the northern portion of the site. The photo on the left is the southern portion of the site where you've got these large wind rows and mounds. Um photos on the

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on the right hand side show some of the concrete and rubble that are in the northern portion of the site um which are clearly historic dumping grounds. >> Those are good photos compared to what we saw >> that pl it's way worse than that. Even the photos we saw trash and and it's >> it's horrible.

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>> Yeah. Next slide. And then we provided a a um a plan that went with the application. As you can see on this the topography here, it shows the areas where dumping has occurred. And we've also highlighted, it wasn't perfectly clear on the plan that

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was submitted in the request for determination of aability, but I highlighted in more detail here the areas that we've highlighted as historic dumping grounds and the red um kind of the red marking to identify that. And again, for any commission members that

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are are willing and able to to come out on Saturday morning, we can walk the whole site and I can show it. >> You get a nice view of former homeless encampments, enough piss jugs to last a lifetime. Um, it's a beautiful area. Beautiful area. Yeah. >> So, the the hope is that they would

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clean it up and and do some type of development project. Next slide. So in our conclusion um based upon the regulations and definitions we believe that the concrete line channel meets the definition of man-made canal due the historic dumping and clearing of the

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site contains areas that were degraded or historic dumping grounds that existed prior to 19 August 1st August 7th 1996. So, as far as requested findings that we'll be asking the commission if they

399
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would make the determination that the streams of man-made canal with a 100 foot buffer zone and no riverfront area on the site and then portions of the site identified on the submitted plans are considered historic dumping grounds andor previously degraded prior to

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August 7th, 1996. So, that's a summary. We're gonna go out, you know, unfortunately we got to drag you back out and see how bad the site is. >> Could I ask a point of information? >> Absolutely. >> What is the significance of the date that you keep using? Is there any particular reason? >> Yeah. So, August 7th 7th, 1996

401
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was the enactment of the Rivers Protection Act. So, areas that were um abandoned junk junkyards, areas that lack top soil are grandfathered. So, it would be considered redevelopment under the Wellness Protection Act. So the plans would be designed based upon that

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redevelopment standard. >> So um yet again, I'm going to just mention this to everyone on the commission. What we're going to be voting on is basically just an okay for them to do research on this land. Um I don't I personally don't see any reason

403
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why not. Having tooured this um [laughter] I know the right terminology. Uh, to be kind, I'd say a frequently used homeless encampment area um that will be potentially turned into some type of nicer area of livable space that

404
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um is near the highway. It's currently being used as woods and a place where people go to just leave their junk. Um, so for them to do this work, we're giving them the okay to be able to say, "Okay, whether it's a canal, not a canal, no one's making that judgment tonight, but you're going to have the

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ability to spend all that time, money, and energy to figure all of that out." And then come before us at a later time with your findings. And at that point, we can make a determination. Is it a canal? Is it a stream? Is it a fun pool for people to have fun in? I don't know.

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But they're going to tell us. So, um, I think at this point I'm going to ask if anyone on the commission has any questions. Is any portion of this in Chelsea? >> No, the Chelsea Town line is the is the Western property line. And just a point

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of kind of just clarification, >> we we are seeking this like a decision so that we can p whether it's a canal or not so that we can proceed with plans. So we at the next meeting we would ask the commission. >> Sure. at this meeting? Absolutely not.

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>> At this meeting, we're not asking for any >> Yeah, we're going to want to see your findings and be able to have some of our research of our own um before we would be able to even comment on that. >> Yep. Absolutely. And I think the only way to really do that is put boots on the ground. So, >> absolutely.

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>> I appreciate the the commission's willingness to come out on a Saturday and walk the site. I just one thing while you guys are doing your findings, I I actually will do my best to be there so I can um see for myself, but I'd like to know where it goes. Where's the outfall for that?

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Where I mean, if you know now, that would be great. And do you plan on um with your storm water management plan running storm water into that? >> I would anticipate yes. So any project will So I guess you have two questions.

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First question is this drains underneath the off-ramp to River Beach Parkway and goes through kind of a tidal marsh and enters the the ocean not too far from here. So it's titly influenced high tides some of the water flows up back

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through this uh canal. But your second question is any development that they do on the site will have to be be required to to meet the mass storm water management standards. So whether it be, you know, collection,

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treatment, storm water basins, you name it, it's going to be required to >> my my sorry my you're going to tie it into that is what is what I'm saying. You'll use that channel or you're going to have a different >> avenue of getting rid of the water. >> I don't know with 100% certainty, but my

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assumption would be the discharge would be to that stream because I'm not aware of any other connections that you could make. Any other questions? >> When is the sitewalk? I don't >> Saturday. >> What time on Saturday? >> 9 o'clock.

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>> I don't know. It's if it's 100% confirmed, but it would be >> either 9:30. >> Okay. >> I won't go. for this site. >> For this site, >> we we went and saw it already. Um so

416
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>> question of it at the very um >> northern >> northern so there was a whole another section that we couldn't really get to. >> It's not an easy place to get to on the other side

417
01:59:14.639 --> 01:59:39.440
>> explore where that's going. So he requested come back when we had more time because we had so many public. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> Um Okay. Any anything else from anybody?

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>> No. Okay. So, um I'm going to ask for a motion for a negative determination of RDA. No, we would continue this. We don't want to give him a negative RDA unless we >> I think you want to confirm what we're telling you, but with boots on the ground on Saturday and we'll come to the

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next meeting. I think we're we're simply asking for a continuation till the next meeting to allow for >> No, that's what I'm just basing off what Nick said to me for it. So, um, okay. Then if we just you just want a continuation >> continuation of the next meeting to allow the commission a opportunity to to

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review the site. >> Then, uh, I grant you the continuation. >> Perfect. Thank you. I'll see hopefully I'll see most of you on Saturday. Um, there's something I was going to mention that I forgot. Anyway, I'll we can talk about it on Saturday. >> What's that?

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>> Good question. >> I forgot what I was I was gonna ask. I'll I'll think of it >> by Friday. Yeah, if you don't mind. Oh, the other thing I was going to mention was plan on parking at the same place. That's the best access, unfortunately. We're going to walk right through that. >> Sure. >> The same garbage that you did

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previously, but park on the north side on Feno Street. Okay. >> And then we can walk you down through it. >> We'll put it all in the the invite. >> Perfect. Okay. >> I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Okay. So, now we have uh 29 Putnham Street. Is there anyone here for 29 Putnham

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Street? Wendy Wendy Sheridan. I reside at 36 Putnham. Um, I had called to put in a complaint to 29 in regards to 29 Putnham because I noticed that the owners of the property

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are now taking machetes and weed whackers and uh, lawnmowers and making their yard way much bigger than than it should be. According to the Mass GIS, and I can show you a picture that I pulled, um the red lines depict actually

425
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where the property lines are, but they're actually mowing all the way out. This it's this triangle basically, and now it's become a large rectangle. Um there is ongoing litigation between the

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building department as well as um the engineering department also. Yep. um in regards to the driveway that was illegally done at this location. So, this has been an ongoing event since November of 2024. >> We Yeah, we've been to the site many

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times. >> The site many times. >> Yep. >> But you haven't seen the site before it was done. >> Yeah. It's um >> You haven't seen it before. So part of the problem also is because they um tore up land in that is on faces Putinham

428
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Road actually where they tore it up and now they put a a um asphalt driveway down there. The flooding is it's terrible down there. It's really bad. And on top of now these people making their yard three times the size of what

429
02:02:46.320 --> 02:03:02.639
it's supposed to be. I'm asking that you take these photos into consideration. Um, you can go on master GIS as well. You can look at it. This is protected lands that they're mowing and got the machete out and the weed whacker and all of that. The problem I have with this is

430
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that when tidal water is coming in, it's it's not being caught by the fragmitees that are that are supposed to be growing there, that are supposed to be there to stop the the the water from permeating onto the street and into the next yard

431
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and whatnot. So, it it's it's a problem. It's a continuing problem. Many years ago, June of 2020, as a matter of fact, there was a gentleman here by the name of Nick Malaysen, I believe. he was the previous chair. >> Okay. So, he had actually gone down there and forbodeed these people from

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02:03:35.520 --> 02:03:52.000
doing that. Um, and it just continued. You know, nobody nobody seems to care. I care. I've I'm 63 years old. I've lived there for 63 years. I have a I have my I'm going to I'm as old as those oak trees in there. My roots run deep. My My grandchild is the sixth generation born

433
02:03:52.000 --> 02:04:07.760
and raised in Oak Island. Um, I've literally watched decades of deterioration of of the wetlands and the marsh and >> your property couldn't be any closer to the wetlands if you >> I'm in it to win it. That's it. I had 5 ft of water in my cellar and I pumped it

434
02:04:07.760 --> 02:04:24.080
out and moved on. So >> your your that whole area um for a lot of people who live in River don't even know that that area is >> That's right. It's it's it's the resistance as she knows as well. So, you know, it's you get there, you don't want to leave. And and there's a reason for

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02:04:24.080 --> 02:04:41.199
it, you know. Um it's it's a little slice of heaven. And when people come down, they go, "Wow, I didn't even know this was here." >> The view is excellent. I mean, it's the that area. It's you just go down that that street and it's just wow. >> Yep. 100%. >> And I can understand anything involving [sighs] flooding. Must be absolutely

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02:04:41.199 --> 02:04:58.480
brutal times 10 when it's where you are. And I can only imagine what you deal with on a regular basis for that. and anyone that's impeding your ability to stop the flooding, I can understand why you're here. >> Um, >> we went to the site, we looked at it, and you know, this is something that we

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02:04:58.480 --> 02:05:14.159
can absolutely keep under advisement and look into more. And if you have evidence and videos and things of that nature, it's things that not just us, but you know, Mass D, um, the building inspector, these are the people as well that will have more ability to do more than than we can.

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02:05:14.159 --> 02:05:29.440
>> We're going the rounds, >> right? So, I actually this is how I ended up here tonight because I actually reached out to the mass D um four or five different people and they actually referred me back back to here um and specifically to El Baker who's been

439
02:05:29.440 --> 02:05:45.840
super instrumental in communicating with me because um I didn't really know the process. So, I went down a rabbit hole. That's where I went. Um I had had conversation with another gentleman from here who's not here this evening and that sort of went to the left and nothing was ever really resolved. Um, so

440
02:05:45.840 --> 02:06:02.800
due to my frustration, basically that's how I ended up going to the D. Um, and for full disclosure, I also included on that email um, the conservation committee for the city of Rea because I just wanted people here. I don't know who gets it. I just wanted people to know, hey, >> whenever you email the concom us, we all

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get it. >> So included on that were multiple attachments. Um, one of them was the um, mass GIS photo that they're in possession of. um other photos of you can see top topically how how it's mowed

442
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out and how it's they've created sort of this huge rectangle yard when it should only be like a pie shape. Um the copies of cease and desist have been there multiple times, you know. Um, it's it's it's a continuing ongoing problem and

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I'm asking that this commission take this seriously because I really feel as though somebody needs to go down, drive stakes into the onto the property line, say you can't go past this. This is not, you don't own this. You can't go past it. This is protected wetlands that

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fragmitees need to grow. And now it's going to take multiple years. >> That would be mass D. That would be the ones doing that. So, so if Mass D is referring me to you, how do I get back to Mass D and request that they do that? >> You you have the ability as a member,

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you know, citizen of Massachusetts. You have the ability to be able to to speak to them and be able to say, "This is the issue. They're the ones that would put stakes in the grounds. They're the ones that do the fines. They're the ones that go after people as mass D." For us, we're we're hamstrung for as much as we

446
02:07:22.320 --> 02:07:39.280
can do. We can approve and deny projects. We have the ability to be able to have these conversations with people and be able to try to rectify these situations. But the actual real power is with Mass D. They're the ones that are going to be able to really go after and

447
02:07:39.280 --> 02:07:55.760
fix the issue that you have. Okay. >> Us being aware is is a huge part that now it's in our purview that we're able to look and see what can be done. But the real like teeth of being able to go and do something is at the state level. >> Okay. Do you in this commuse one second

448
02:07:55.760 --> 02:08:11.840
do you in this committee do you now because I've come here and filed a formal complaint against these people. Do you now reach out to the master EP yourself and of your findings or >> we we have we have the ability to do that and you since you've already done it we can pile on to that with what our

449
02:08:11.840 --> 02:08:27.040
opinions are and they may reach out to us and say to the river concom and ask us what we think and at that point we're able to respond and tell them our thoughts after site visits. >> Okay. Would I also be included in that as the complaintant to this specific

450
02:08:27.040 --> 02:08:42.719
claim? Would I be included in those correspondents? If you are, that would be up to Mass E if you're put into that. A lot of times it's it's inter agency that we're kind of corresponding with each other on those types of things. But what our findings would be, you would be welcome to. >> Okay.

451
02:08:42.719 --> 02:08:58.239
>> It's not nothing's done behind closed doors of things. If we find that something happened and something needs to be rectified, >> as the complainer, we have no problem making sure that you're aware of what our findings were. >> Okay. Understood. Do you have a question? >> Okay. What was the vote going to be on for tonight? What was the vote?

452
02:08:58.239 --> 02:09:15.280
>> What was the discussion going to be on tonight? He said he's went down there and did a site inspection. >> What was your thought? >> Yep. What was your thoughts on it? >> Went to the >> and it was extended 17 ft without a without a um permit.

453
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>> They were told deceased and desist. And I'm told that Nick went down there and said, "Oh, you're fine. They have a fake square on the end of the street. Dug a big hole at the end of the street."

454
02:09:32.639 --> 02:09:49.119
He just talked about patuminous material for an hour here. That's not patuminous material that he put right in the wetlands. Not above the wetlands, not 100 feet from the wetlands, right in the wetlands.

455
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I mean, I guess the part of my frustration is >> there should be a cease and desist and be ordered to take out what's there that he put in the wetlands all illegally after cease and desist. I was on this board for 5 years. I ran the water and sewer department, drain department of

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this city for over 30 years. >> Can I make a comment? >> Yes. >> I thought we did that >> and now now I'm looking at the pictures and I thought we told them to rip off the driveway and move the fence back to where it was supposed to Can I can I just interject on that? So, the information pertaining to this driveway

457
02:10:20.320 --> 02:10:37.040
basically is >> it's a who's who. Not my job. Not my job. Not my job. I was relentless in not giving up. Right now, it's actually in litigation and out. They've been to court multiple times. The city has done what they could to find them. The first time the court waved the fines, fixed

458
02:10:37.040 --> 02:10:53.520
the driveway. They refused. They go, "Yeah, go ahead. We're not going to pay it now. We're going to get over it." They went back to court in March. Um they're about $8,200 in fines. Now, my understanding uh is that the court has maintained and held the fines. They

459
02:10:53.520 --> 02:11:09.520
cannot be vacated at this point. They've hired an attorney. The city has now consulted with outside attorneys who I've been in contact with and had conversation and provided evidence for them on on their their respect. So, it's sort of it's in litigation is where the

460
02:11:09.520 --> 02:11:26.079
driveway is in litigation. My concern now is the yard. Um, and that's why I'm here. I'm here asking because I don't know. >> What did you see on your site? >> They they didn't follow the order of conditions. >> So, we we have we have the order of

461
02:11:26.079 --> 02:11:42.400
conditions. >> So, what what is the order of condition? I'm sorry. I don't understand what that means. >> We have the order of conditions here. You want to see it >> for the driveway? >> For the Yeah, for the driveway. >> Not Not for this. >> Not for this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Not for that. >> Well, it's so driveway. Two two separate topics. driveway mood point

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02:11:42.400 --> 02:11:58.800
>> mowing the wetlands bad. >> Yeah, correct. You got an extended drive where you >> Yeah. And I mean and that's part of the problem is that I know that litigation and I know that the attorneys are are working on behalf of of the city. That's that's who employs them. That's who pays

463
02:11:58.800 --> 02:12:13.840
them. I understand that. So I have multiple conversations with an attorney there who explained the whole litigation process to me and I was super appreciative >> pertaining to this specific issue here. Right. >> I was told from mass D that I had to

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come here to have somebody here >> put the hammer down on them and say you can't do this. You can't mow past your boundary of your property. [clears throat] >> They're absolutely not supposed to do that. >> Okay. So that's my point. So they're doing it. When you went out there to the site visit, you saw it, correct?

465
02:12:31.119 --> 02:12:47.840
>> I mean, you were out there. I I know El pictures. >> You could see he's well beyond. >> You all had some com. There was four of you. I believe you were there. I know Anthony was there. I know El was there. And I'm not sure who else was there. >> Nick. Nick was there. He's not here tonight, >> right? [laughter] >> So So whoever was there, I know that you

466
02:12:47.840 --> 02:13:03.679
saw it. So what are your thoughts on that? I mean, what do you do now moving forward now that you've seen it? You know it's incorrect. You know that they're not supposed to be doing that because I know if I took my fence down and went out another 20t, I would be in trouble.

467
02:13:03.679 --> 02:13:20.239
>> I I got to put my two cents in. If Mass D sent them to you, wouldn't it be within your scope to send them a letter to let him know, let them know how this commission feels that it needs to be addressed immediately?

468
02:13:20.239 --> 02:13:36.880
>> We're always able to send out a >> it's on the agenda. >> That's why it's on the agenda. Yes. So, that's not an issue for us being able to do that. But what I just want to clarify is like as far as putting the hammer down and stuff like that, there's is a long road of us getting to where this

469
02:13:36.880 --> 02:13:54.079
is, you know, used in in that process. You've been on the board. You so you understand? >> I've been on the board. I've been on many boards in the city. >> Yes. So, we have we have no problem with what your complaints are and doing everything we can to help within our means to rectify the situation. If they

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02:13:54.079 --> 02:14:10.560
are doing what you're saying they're doing and you can see that area of obviously that corner right where the RV is to the right of the RV is what you're referring to >> and the pictures that went around. >> No, it's coming up to where the driveway is. >> So the driveway is here. The the RV is to >> the driveway the driveway is not even

471
02:14:10.560 --> 02:14:25.119
supposed to be there. >> No, no, I I I know. I'm just stating for the area that you're talking about on there. >> So if I'm staring at the RV at the end of the street, the RV is to my left, their driveways to the right. Correct. Correct. >> Okay. You're talking about the area

472
02:14:25.119 --> 02:14:41.440
beyond the driveway. Right there is where you're saying that they're straight across >> and all the way back. All the way back and straight across, which is >> which they're not supposed to be doing. >> Correct. >> So, yet again, that's something that we have no problem trying to do our best to be able to rectify. There's only so much

473
02:14:41.440 --> 02:14:58.159
that we can do, but we we can there's no issue being able to send a letter to be able to say you're not supposed to be a doing this. If it is currently tied up in litigation, that will supersede us for what you guys >> The litigation is for the driveway only. What they are doing now is cutting into

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the marsh, which is completely >> Well, then why can't we just issue a cease and decision? Exactly. I'd like to make a motion to do that if we could. That's not a problem. >> I mean, I was under the assumption you were going to make a conditions for these people today. >> Well, we order conditions. They never

475
02:15:13.760 --> 02:15:30.079
came before those intent. But we we can approve to do a cease and desist letter. That's not a problem. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And and if if past history is going to say anything, they're going to ignore it. >> Of course, >> unless somebody enforces >> I'm going to tell you past history, they got a cease and desist to stop the work

476
02:15:30.079 --> 02:15:45.760
in the yard after they threw all the dirt and pile it in their yard. >> The next day on a Saturday, they had trucks at 6:00 in the morning, threw all the new asphalt down. >> And that's how that happened. >> Yeah. And then we dealt with all that. This isn't this isn't a new a new property that we're dealing with. This is something that we're aware of.

477
02:15:45.760 --> 02:16:02.000
>> Yeah, that's what we're dealing with. And I >> I want to stay on top of it. >> So, >> no. So, we we have I I don't I mean, I don't even know if we need to do a vote for a cease and desist. I think we can just do it, but we'll do a vote anyway. We have a motion for a cease and desist letter. >> I'd like to make Can we not also find them $300 a day?

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02:16:02.000 --> 02:16:17.920
>> Yes, we can. >> Yep. >> I think I think step one is the cease and desist. >> I think this is the only thing that gentleman understands. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I step one, cease and desist. Before we get into any fines or anything, we start with the cease and desist. >> So, we're threatening them with the fines.

479
02:16:17.920 --> 02:16:33.599
>> Sure. Which is fine in the cease. >> No fines would take place until after they have the opportunity to come before us and, you know, defend themselves. >> How many days are we going to give them to rectify it? >> Her being the could she be notified of when that's coming? >> Yeah, that's not a problem. >> I appreciate that.

480
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>> Um, okay. So, can we have a motion to issue a cease and desist? I'd like I'd like to ask because I don't I I'm new. Is there a difference between a cease and desist and and an order? >> This this isn't an order.

481
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>> No, no, no, no, no. This No, no orders at this point. That's later on. Yeah. This is just step one. >> I'm sorry. I mean like an enforcement order. Is that the same thing? Cease and desist and enforcement order are the same thing. Okay, that's all I want to talk. >> Cease and assist. So, can I get >> I make a motion to for a cease and assist.

482
02:17:04.000 --> 02:17:20.160
>> Okay. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Is everyone else in favor? I >> Okay. >> I have one request in regards to this cease and desist. I have a question. Do you specify in this order that basically you need to cease and desist? You are not allowed to mow weed whack or

483
02:17:20.160 --> 02:17:35.519
>> do anything to the wetlands? Yeah. >> To the wetlands beyond your property line. >> They're not allowed to do anything to the wetlands. I'm not. You're not. No one is allowed to do anything to the wetlands unless you go through a crazy process of getting approved, which no

484
02:17:35.519 --> 02:17:52.000
one ever gets approved to really do anything to it. >> So like in my yard, let's say I have a fence around my yard. I mow my lawn. I mow my yard, but it's it's within my property boundary. You know what I'm saying? So I mow there. So they're allowed to mow in weed whack within

485
02:17:52.000 --> 02:18:08.000
their within their That's my question. Thank you. within their property line boundary. I guess that's >> if your pro your property line wouldn't be the wetlands. The wetlands is not owned by a person. So like you wouldn't have the wetlands in your property.

486
02:18:08.000 --> 02:18:24.880
>> If they're extend if they're extending it out, but they're right. Okay. I understood what you're saying. Okay. >> Okay. >> That Yeah, but you're not allowed to do anything to it. Understood. >> Yeah. Even if it's in your property. What I'm saying is you can't do anything to wetlands. Understood. That's like the verboden like you can't cross that.

487
02:18:24.880 --> 02:18:40.000
>> Okay. Yep. Understood. Okay. I'm sorry. Sorry. What was your question? >> He said he has it. >> Oh, you you want to stand? Okay. >> With the >> Oh, did you have Okay. >> the picture with the pie shape that shows where that property actually is. >> Yeah. I mean, this is so actually Google Maps has really great property lines,

488
02:18:40.000 --> 02:18:56.080
too. They they pull the data from G. So, >> I went on that map. >> Go on Google Maps and it'll show you the property line. >> Yeah. >> You just wait till the next day. It just keeps on continuing. >> And L has a question. >> From a facilitation standpoint, >> the cease and desist is issued.

489
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>> Yes. Right. Agreed. Right. We issue the cease and desist. There is no mowing, no weed whacking >> to the wetlands on >> on their property. Not on their property or off property >> without specific. >> Well, no, they not specific anything.

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They're not allowed to do it. >> You're not allowed to do anything within the wetlands. Yeah. Without a permit. Correct. Or without >> which they're never going to get >> an RDA or an NOI. >> So that's clear. >> But the damage has already been done. This is my question. So, what is the

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reparation? Is it just we're letting them know, informing them they're not allowed to do it anymore? >> Yeah, this is step one to stop. >> The next steps for for that will be once we actually have like the the line and seeing what the damage was done. At that

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point, I think we need to have another follow-up site visit to be able to look and see and talk to them as well. So, I think this is a good first step. do the cease and desist and then anything involving fines or next steps happens after that. I think we start we we need

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a start. This is a start. Um we understand your concern and we're working to to do what we can do. We're not we're not for them doing this and whatever we can do to get them to stop we will. And hopefully they don't ignore us. But if

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they do then at that point then then at that when they start ignoring us then we have more teeth. Okay. We don't have the ability to enforce much until we're ignored or where something is done negatively to this to this commission. Once we tell you to do something and you

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don't do it at that point then we have repercussions. We have to give them to the point where they have the the chance to show us or whatever or have their case. We can't just unilaterally say you did something. This is the fine. We have to let them have that opportunity. >> I understand.

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>> Who's the one that told them to put a swale down beyond the illegal addition to the driveway? >> Oh, >> French drain. >> It's not really a French drain. >> That's brutal. >> So, that was probably me, but I think

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what I told them was to rip up their driveway and replace it with stone. >> So, he made a big hole at the end of the street beyond the driveway. >> He didn't rip up the driveway. put some stone and he didn't rip >> because the driveway was beyond >> the 20 ft correct

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they were meant to rip that up, put the fence back where it was and then instead of replacing that with soil or whatever just to fill it with stone. >> Yeah, that's that was the order. And I think honestly and I think part of the problem is is that um uh the engineering department, the

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building department, the conservation department aren't really sitting down and collaborating and as of like where are we with this? What is happening with this? So that's part of the problem. And I think that's why we're now a year and a half into this debacle across the

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street. And I I think these individuals that own this piece of property, I I feel that they think that they're above it, you know, and and I have a problem with that. So that's where I'm at today, and that's why I'm here again. So, >> well, we we hear you. We want you to

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understand. >> I appreciate that. >> We do hear you. So, >> I appreciate that. And and I appreciate L and all of you who came down and came to a site visit. >> One I have one final question for the commission. Um so after the cease and

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desist is issued is there a time frame in which we will set in the cease and desist order in which site visits will be committed to to know that this is no longer occurring. >> It's typically 30 days.

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>> Does that make sense? So we revisit in 30 days and make sure that >> there's growth. Is that >> Yeah, >> that's >> I mean typically it's a 30-day one thing >> 30 days and every 30 days for the next >> six months or

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>> I think we start with 30 I think we we make this the first step. So if we want to do 30 days >> I just want to make sure I'm putting in there what I'm I'm representing what you're saying here. >> Yes. >> Yes. 30 days. >> Cease and desist revisit in 30 days. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Within 30 days. So my question also is

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when would this individual get notified of this cease and desist because >> once it's sent out I mean today is uh Wednesday so you know it depends when it when the letter gets sent out. So, I think the reason Well, I know the reason why I'm asking is because I I know he's

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just gonna go out there and just do what he does, you know? But >> I get we can't be but at the end of the day, we have to follow a process. >> Yep. No problem. >> And and I get you. Listen, I've I've I've had horrible neighbors in my life. So, I understand. >> Right. So, I think my question is I don't want to be a stalker, right? So,

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that's and that's what I'm turning into. That's what it feels like. Um, I I want to know when can I come back here or when can I submit evidence going, "Yep, he's mowing the lawn again." >> When they're when they're officially on here, when it's when it's on here as

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business that we're going to be covering where we open a hearing. >> Um, so like today, this isn't an open hearing. you're you're here for this as as a complaint, but when this comes before us and there's an I I bang the gavvel and this is an open hearing at that point people in the audience are

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allowed to come up and and have that conversation and present evidence, have a conversation wherever you want. >> Perfect. That's what I wanted to know. >> So when that happens, you are more than welcome to come here. So just keep checking. We post our um the the agendas on the uh the website.

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>> Okay. Very good. Thank you. and then keep documenting it and time timestamps on the photos. >> Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. We'll do. I appreciate your time. I really appreciate you. Thank you. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Okay. So, now we have continued business which is 36 Glendale. Is there anyone

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here representing 36 Glendale? I'm going to take that as a no. So, uh that just gets pushed out. Okay. Now, we have the Route 16 bridge replacement. Is there anyone here for the Route 16 bridge replacement?

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>> They are not attending this evening. It was continued from the last meeting because they would like to have further discussion about the proposed order conditions by the commission. So there'll be a meeting next week. >> Okay.

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>> Um because they have some questions about what has been asked of them. >> Perfectly fine. some cannot be supported um because it's not mass D. >> Okay. And >> jurisdictional procedure.

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>> All right. And then we had a bunch of site visits. We went to 577 Chamberlain A, Point of Pines Yach Club, 1012 Northshore Road, 620 River Beach Boulevard, 690 Washington A, Feno Street, which was the Chelsea and

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Riverside, Gibson Point Park, Access Road, 624 River Beach Boulevard, 84 Arcadia, 2933 Putnham Road, 36 Lee Burbank Highway, and Gibson Park. Okay, so we had some communications. Uh first

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one is from National Grid. Um they basically said that the letters being submitted to notify the commission of utility maintenance activities along an existing national gas line in river. Um they're going to replace existing gas main with uh Cooper Terrace and Salem Street. Ravier access will be gained

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from Cooper Terrace and Salem Street and they're going to be performing this work in accordance with the provision of the Massachusetts Wetlands Protection Act. Okay. Also uh we got a message from DPW. Uh it serves to notify river conservation of proposed maintenance activities will be

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performed at the Gibson Park drainage outfall. The proposed maintenance activities of the Gibson Park outfall consent exempt from a filing of an NOI under 310 CMR as the proposed maintenance activities will include resetting the pipe head wall which has been eroded and moved over the years as well as removing sand buildup from

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within the pipe. Okay. Is there anything else then for the record longest meeting I think we've ever had? Uh yes. >> Do we hear anything or do we need to discuss the uh inadvertent release uh

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and the sus river from NWR >> other than the email we got? >> Yeah. So um that's something that we're going to have a lot more conversations with. I'm sure will be on the agenda for um the next meeting. Uh the there was an inverted release in the Sagas River uh

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not just once but a multitude of times. um that is not currently on our agenda for tonight, but um that is something that will absolutely be be covered for the foreseeable future. >> Yeah, it was it's this wasn't good. Um but yet again, we're still gaining

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information. There's still going to be a lot more visits to this. Um but this is something that is absolutely on the radar of the concomit. >> I don't think the visit was completed. >> Visit visit was I was there. >> Oh, you did earlier. ran by. Um, >> it was on the Lynn side. This this

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release, there's nothing on our side. I did not run to >> Lyn. >> Okay. Any anything else? Okay. Can I have a a please have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Can we have a second? >> Second.

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>> For the love of God, this is [sighs] over.