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He is not. >> Okay. >> We have lovely Claire here helping us out today. >> She likes to sit in the sit. >> Guess not. Welcome to the July 28th meeting of the

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planning board. Are ready to get underway? >> Yes. Would you like to do a roll call? >> I would. So, yes, let's do a roll call. Mr. Abrams,

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>> present. >> Mr. Castanza, absent. >> Miss Hoffman, >> present. >> Mr. Rivera, >> here.

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Miss Siming Turling here. Mr. Samopoulos absent. Mr. Sullivan >> here. >> Thank you. Now we get to open the public hearing with respect to the proposed zoning

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ordinance amendment relative to bodyheart establishments. First off, we'll see if we have any proponents on this matter. >> Members of the planning board, my name is Claire Enzerillo. I'm a member of the city solicitor's office here at city

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hall, 281 Broadway. I was asked to come tonight on behalf of Frank Stringy, city planner, who could not be present tonight. And I just want to give you guys some brief background on the body art zoning amendments that are before the city council and before your board

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as well. So right now, uh, body art is classified as traditional artistic tattooing that most of us probably think of, but it also encompasses, uh, body piercing, although the practitioner themselves has a separate license to do body piercing,

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cosmetic tattooing, which is permanent makeup, microlading, which I believe is a eyebrow procedure, and micro needling, which is more of like a facial procedure. That's the best of my knowledge uh for how those work. But

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right now in River in our current table of uses, a body art establishment is permitted only in the TED district, the TEED, and only by special permit. The planning department has proposed to our city council to open that up to include

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the CB district, central business, highway, the HB district, highway business. And that was what we had proposed last night at city council's public hearing on the matter. There were proponents present. There were no opponents present for the hearing and

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the city council had discussed but had not yet voted on of course um possible amendments to what we had proposed and there was discussion last night of possibly adding GB and GB1 districts to what we had already proposed. So there was a lot of support last night. I don't

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want to speak for the council, but there were proponents um who came, including several businesses who do not operate here who would like to operate here. And so, um what the zoning would do is open up that use still by special permit unless the city council changes that to

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the CB and HB districts and possibly, depending on your recommendation and the city council's recommendations, possibly the GB and GB1 districts. Um the other amendment that you will find in the proposal is that body art establishments will not be allowed in any residential

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or mixeduse residential buildings. Uh of course the city council has not voted yet or met in subcommittee. So that's subject to change. Also depends on your recommendation as well to them but that is a change that's in there. And then this is more of a formality, but the

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amendment also includes language that uh body art practicing and body art establishments require permits from the board of health, which was always always a thing, but we're just codifying it in there. And I'm happy to answer any questions, although I do know it's public hearing.

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>> Do you know who does who or who do the final approval for this? Is it the city council or the zoning board of appeals? So if it right now if it stays as a special permit it will be our practitioners going before the city council for a special permit to be in

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that district and then they get approval from the board of health as well to do the actual body art procedures and the board of health inspects those um locations. >> I do have another question. >> So you mentioned that this will not be allowed in residential areas, right? >> Residential buildings.

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>> Buildings, right? What about uh schools, close to schools? >> Um, it depends if there is a school in the district where it's allowed. So, I don't believe there's a school in the TED. I don't believe there's a school in

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the GB. I don't believe there's schools in HB. This is all memory right now. I don't believe Where's the CB? While you're on the highway business,

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don't we have a high school on both the old and the new that are on highway business? >> The new high school will be PDD2. The old high school, I think, is IP. I I know it goes across the street by

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uh is it separated where the playing field is and then across the street? >> It is separated, but the separations IP and CD. I'm not seeing HB over there. There's an H there's a highway business in the middle of where the new high school is and the TED

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district. Is maybe that where you're referring to? So, there could be one there, but I think it's like railroad tracks, right? Yes, some some are railroad tracks and but >> and the city council would have to approve the special permit. So if somebody wants to set up a tattoo shop,

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>> okay, >> hypothetically on top of the Whan school, I'm not sure the the city council would approve that one. >> Make sure you say hypothetically. >> Hypothetically. >> Okay. >> But I see your point. >> I do have another question. >> Uh so the new businesses that are coming

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in, let's say the tattoo uh business anyways. Uh, is there a policy or do they have a policy when it comes to the age of kids getting tattoos? >> I believe state law in Massachusetts is 18 cuz I know when

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me and my sister went and she was 17 and she couldn't get it here even with my mother's permission and that was a few years ago so it may have changed but I think it's 18 because she had to go to New Hampshire to get her tattoo. >> I don't believe that it's related to the I don't believe that it's decided by the actual business itself. No, the business

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does not choose. That's the um the state >> policy. >> Yes. And I know they're pretty strict about that here. >> I don't know if that applies to all body art, but tattooing for sure.

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>> Yeah. I believe it's it's tied to their license as a body art practitioner. So, I think even if you were to do permanent makeup, because that's a that's a tattoo, it should apply. But for instance, you were talking about micro blading. I don't know that that's

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required to be 18 by law. >> Yeah. I don't know how they classify the eyebrow um thing. Don't look at mine because I don't have it done so I'm not a good example. But they do some eyebrow

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procedure where like it's a tattoo but not a tattoo. Some people get the actual tattoos where >> I don't think it's permanent, >> right? It's like temporary like thickening and darkening. Um I believe I'm not well versed in aesthetics.

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>> So uh you said that they want to do this in different districts. >> Mhm. >> As of right now, how many districts uh the city will allow? Right now, before the proposed changes, the zoning only allows a body art establishment in TEED.

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And we have the TE district is behind Northgate area down where to the left of Suffach Downs where the railroad tracks are. There's a sliver of TEED.

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I wish I had like a beautiful interactive screen with it, but there's a beautiful te there's a little teed behind the beach. I know River TV helped me out yesterday. There we go.

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So, TEED is green. >> So, you can see it's >> so three locations >> about three or four. I don't want to misquote. There's some tiny slivers. Our zoning is very carved out. >> I think there's one on Lin Marsh Road 107.

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>> That sounds right. I think that might be that one over here. >> Tiny one. >> And again, when it's in the zoning table, especially by special permit, if the

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city council or the planning board or whomever adds that use to that district, they still have to be approved on a case-byase basis. through the permitting process. >> So you were describing the services that

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do do we call them tattoo polish still or are they something else? Now >> I believe the politically correct term is body art establishment. >> That's how the state calls it. So what happens if somebody wants to remove

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their body art from their from their recently or whatever an old tattoo that >> grandma had and now she doesn't want to see it anymore but is there another procedure and another class for removal? >> Yes and my limited knowledge on the

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subject I know there are laser options available for people who want tattoos removed. I don't believe anyone in River offers that service currently, but I think the state requires a special license or permit for people who use

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laser. Laser would not be covered with this. I don't believe. I can check with our public health department, but I know laser is special. I know laser might require like a physician overseeing the facility because I know there's laser hair removal places and those require a

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board-certified physician to be in charge of that facility. So that wouldn't fall under um under this license. The state exempts medical procedures performed under the supervision of a physician. >> I I think you're right. Medical if it is zoned as a if it is determined or

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defined as a medical office >> that would even be allowed in a residential. >> Yeah. Medical facilities are zoned differently. They would not fall under the body art establishment even if it's a medical even if it's tattoo related

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but it's medical it's performed under the supervision of a doctor that's not going to count with this zoning that you're considering tonight. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Any other questions? >> Are there any other proponents here to speak on this tonight?

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Are there any opponents hearing and seeing none? Are there other thoughts on this that you want to share? >> I think I'll say that I don't have the to me but um I think it will bring

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revenue to the city. So I I'm in support. I don't know if we have to make a motion or >> we will, but I didn't know if there was any discussion you wanted to hold first. I >> think that'll be at the regular meeting, right? Once the public hearings are over, but what is what is when they're

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talking about revenue, what kind of revenue would the city rea be getting? Uh if it's just a transaction, I they'd be getting whoever owns the land or the rent or that part. Uh but the city doesn't take part of

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that. Is there a sales tax on on this? >> So, I am by no means a business person or a numbers person. So, I apologize. You're going to get mostly estimates and guesses from me. But, I know speaking generally, a lot of tattoo businesses lease the space that they're in or they

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even have um collaborative type studios where artists can rent a chair. I've seen that. So, a lot when we're speaking about revenue, a lot of it's going to be landlord and leie in terms of that um rental relationship. Also, I know that

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they have to pay certain fees and renewals every year to our board of health. So, that does go to our board of health and our city here. I can check what kind of tax is involved. I'm not sure there's a sales tax associated with that type of service, but I can

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definitely check for you. Um, I don't know that it's going to be an explosion in revenue for the city. I think it's more of a holistic approach to we know that people in Ravier, according to testimony last night, go leave Ravier to

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get tattoos in other places. And so just it's less of a money in the city of Ravier's pocket and more of a money in city of River business owners pocket who hopefully spend that money here and they live here and their kids go to school here. So, I can't quantify a number for

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you, but I think it's more of a, like I said, a a holistic approach to how it would benefit the city financially, especially during tourist season during the summer when we get a boatload of people coming here. >> Tattoo sand castles. Are we talking

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something like this? >> I mean, Hampton Beach tattoos, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, you're right. So, some of us are in the construction industry and if we pull a a building permit here in in Reier. Um, uh, you have to have a

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license. Uh, so I don't know if the state gives a license like like a a photo ID like he dresses probably have. I'm not sure if tattoo people have. It sounds like they do. But also, you need when you pull a permit workman's comp

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and workman's liability. So if if you're saying that they're renting chairs, um so whoever owns the business or that tenant space necessarily does do not

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have to have workman's comp because if it's if it's only if you have a shop and you say I have no employees, you don't have you don't need workman's comp, you get an exemption. You may not need the you may need general liability, but it'll be a lot less because it's one

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person. But technically, if you have four chairs or five chairs and you're renting out each and every chair and you're depending on workers comp, workman's comp, workman's comp, it's not there because they're all saying they're independent even though they're all

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under one roof. How do you handle that? >> Yeah, I mean, we have hair salons here on Broadway that operate in the same way. We have um they're licensed as a hair salon and then they rent the chairs out. I don't know the specific business model of how the owner of the hair salon

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or the owner of the tattoo parlor designates their liability amongst the different chairs. I do know speaking on tattoo parlor that the establishment itself is going to have to be licensed as a body art establishment with the board of health which includes over 22

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pages of regulations for what kind of insurance they have to carry, the type of disinfectant they have to have, how many square feet they have to have between the different rooms to ensure privacy and to prevent the transmission of disease. They have very strict standards for operating the

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establishment whether it's by chair or if it's one whole company of people working together. >> So the only thing I I would ask that it would be treated the same way in the building department in the board of health as part of ISD.

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So, in the building department, uh if you're working on on a house, uh you have to give a a workman's comp. Uh and you'd have to do a general liability. So, it's in the same department. Is there anything that would prohibit the

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city asking for the same criteria? Uh besides, we go to the health department. Uh we understand they need a hand sink for all employees to wash. We understand that you need uh the the right the right uh disinfectants and where to put the mop and and where where

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to put a mop sink, but I think general liability and workman's comp for someone who's piercing your body should be kind of recommended. >> Yeah, I can reach out to the building department. We'd want to make sure we're

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not um treating a business class different than how we treat similarly situated business classes. So, I'd want to make sure that um if we're requiring chair rental or um if we're requiring

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the tattoo parlors to carry uh extra insurance or extra liability that we don't require a hair salon to do, you know, which is bleaching my scalp. I would want to make sure we're treating them the same way. So I can reach out to the building department and um see how they handle that.

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>> All right. So that would not only be the building department, it would be ISD. So I if you go to the building department, he's the commissioner, but I believe Mr. Wells is the ISD uh commissioner. So it would be between the two of them. >> Yeah. And he sits on our board of health

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as well. So he has a vote in those licenses for the tattoo parlors. >> But uh Okay. So that's the only thing. So, if I I don't know a lot about tattooing, but I would think it'd be in a private room and not in a regular chair out in the open. I I don't know.

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>> You're correct. It's not in the open. >> Okay. >> They're not allowed to do it in the open. >> Okay. All right. >> And I can definitely follow up in an email to you and the rest of the board members about the uh inquiry inspections as well. >> Okay.

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>> Thank you very much, Cla. Would we like to vote on this matter? >> We are. >> There is a lot of public here. We can do the other side first. >> That works.

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>> All right. >> Let's move forward to the public hearing with respect to a proposed zoning ordinance amendment. relative to food trucks. Is there anybody here this evening to speak in favor of the food truck amendment?

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>> Claire and uh 281 Broadway city solicitor's office. Uh on behalf of Frank Stringy City Planner, 281 Broadway Planning Department. Uh so also before you tonight are the food truck zoning amendments. Similar type of proposal

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obviously for a different type of use. So in our table currently food trucks are allowed in the RC2 district that's our beach area, the HB highway business districts and the TEED TED uh technology

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enterprise I believe district and all of those are allowed but with an asterisk. If you're on the beach, you need DCR permission. And if you're in any of the other districts where it's currently allowed, you of course need license commission approval or else you cannot be there. So, what was proposed to the

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city council and is before you tonight is adding food truck as a use to PDD2. That's plan development district 2. That is a hot pink on the map that I can hold up, but that is where the Wonderland MBTA station is, the Wonderland Plaza

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station is, and the future River High School and a couple other structures are sprinkled in there, but that is where it's being proposed in. It would need to be approved. Any location within that district would need to be approved by

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the license commission which includes our three commissioners and is clerked by our licensing administrator Maggie Haney and the commanding officer of the river police Glenn Mali is also serving on that commission. All of their approvals are needed um in order to

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be in that district if it is approved. Uh they had a public hearing last night at the city council meeting. There were proponents uh myself and John Fesa, the small business liaison who works with our city planner. Um he works on behalf of residents and businesses in the city

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who are trying to navigate our zoning and navigate our permitting. And so that um proposal has come from repeated inquiries into where can these food trucks go. Of course, nobody wants one nestled on their quiet residential street. We're not trying to propose that

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anywhere. We're looking at commercial districts, industrial districts, commuter zones where people are getting on and off the train or the bus and walking. You know, right over there is our bustling Shirley a neighborhood. And so that was the intent behind proposing

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this district. And um I will flag I didn't say it yesterday because I didn't know, but I do know that the state legislature is finalizing their 2026 economic development bill. And part of that includes an amendment which would

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task the state's public health commissioner with standardizing rules and regulations and costs for food truck inspections. So River will eventually have to come into compliance with whatever those new standards are going to be, but I just wanted to flag it um

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to show that it's a really evolving business. It's really flexible and you know I don't own a food truck, so I have no stake in the game. But I think it's mistaken often as some easy thing you can just start up and make a quick buck over the summer. But if you look through

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our permitting process between licensing, public health, fire, police, traffic, and planning, it is not easy. So these folks who are coming in and wanting to do business in different areas in the city, it's it's their whole enterprise. It's not some quick little

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thing that they're trying to skirt around doing. So just keep that in mind. um that it's a really long stringent process to get there and they have to follow a lot of rules and follow a lot of regulations and go to lots of meetings. Um so as you consider adding a

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district to this table, um it's not just adding a district and boom, food trucks everywhere. it's adding a district and then the license commission takes it up and they have a public hearing just like you guys do uh where people can voice their support to or their opposition against a food truck going in a certain

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place. Do the food trucks need to pull a permit each time they go to like a plate, you know, say even with the the zoning the the TEED district right now where they're allowed. Do they need to pull a permit each time or is it once they're licensed and approved, they can operate, you know, at their leisure within

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whatever maybe there's public hours? >> Yeah, good question. So, it's a little bit of both. Um, the city, I hope I'm not misstating anyone, but the city offers like temporary one-day permits for special events. Um, you'll see that at the sand castles. That's a special temporary event. Um, we have food trucks

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from all over come to that. But in River, if you want a standing permit to operate year round, and not all permits are year round, the license commission can approve you just for a certain amount of time, like seasonally. Um, but most of them uh the applicants are

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coming in asking for year round and they have to be renewed every single year. So, every year the renewals go out, we make sure I don't make sure, but Maggie makes sure that you're not delinquent on any city taxes, you're paid up to date on all of your bills. The Department of

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Revenue is on food trucks. Um, they will let us know immediately if they're not uh reporting their meals tax that they have to pay into. Um, so there is a renewal process every year. We do get some temporary special occasion licenses, but um the folks that we're

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seeing come in and and pay to go through the process are yearly renewals and their license is attached to a time. So, they'll be approved for, you know, at the corner of the street and this street or on someone's private property from whom they have permission to be and they

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will be approved for, for example, 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. or something like that. So as of right now, do you have that in place that a food truck can get a permit for a year? >> Yep. So just like a restaurant or liquor license. Uh food trucks are on a yearly

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renewal basis. So if you get approved, you pay for the year for your license. You operate pursuant to the terms of your license. And then at the end of the year, the license commission sends out renewals like, "Okay, let's check. Were you good this year?" Yes, you were. You

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can have it renewed for the next year. >> Who does the inspection? >> So, there's multiple inspections and it depends on what's going on and where you are, but I believe the fire department inspects, the department of municipal inspections

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inspects, and I we have a dedicated food truck inspector over there as well in the health department. and the I think that's the inspections fire health and building. >> So when they give uh this permits or

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licenses all right is there a distance uh between a restaurant to the food trucks? We used to have one and it was really really hard to enforce because they had a rule that you couldn't be within 300 feet of a physical restaurant

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serving the same food >> and then I'm going to change the types of food. So, it's not obvious, but let's say there was a restaurant serving Cambodian food and then there was a food truck serving Vietnamese food.

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some people who aren't familiar with that type of cuisine. Oh, that's the same food. It's all Asian food and then others, no, no, those are very different types of food. So, it was very difficult to enforce that distance. And so, when you looked at it, if you put aside the different types of cuisine, well, why

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can't I have a food truck selling tacos across the street from an Italian restaurant? If I want tacos, I'm not going to the Italian restaurant. So, we got rid of that when we re we redid our zoning last year. I don't know if any of

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you remember that, but uh we removed some of this like sticky, outdated cherry-picking language that we had on the books. We made it really clean. We added everything to the zoning table and took out everything that didn't need to be in the zoning. And so, those more

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specific questions on is it a good idea to be near this restaurant? the license commissioners are the one who take that up on a case-byase basis. So instead of writing down one rule and having it apply to everyone, even in areas where it didn't make sense to apply it because you had Squire Road and eight lanes of

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traffic separating, but you were 300 ft, but there was eight lanes of traffic. It didn't make sense there. So instead, now the license commission reviews that on a case-byase basis depending on where the applicant is asking to go. So long story short, it was there and then it was very

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difficult to enforce and to calculate. So they got rid of that. >> How's the revenue for the city? >> So they pay I got the same question last night. They pay meals tax which all restaurants have to do and the department of revenue classifies them under restaurant food service. So they

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pay the 6.25%. And we don't get the reporting on that. Uh the returns for the businesses are confidential. So, we can't narrow down to the specific, you know, food truck versus restaurant how much we're getting from each, but they do pay into the tax.

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>> So, if I ask for that information, I won't get any. >> We've asked for that information and we don't get it. >> Thank you. >> I We'll keep asking though. >> Do you know approximately how many food trucks there are? >> There are. And Maggie's going to kill me because I think I'm going to get it

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wrong, but it's low in River right now. Not including the Sand Castle Festival because that's not us. I think it's four, three, maybe four with two kind of stuck in the middle right now with where's the zoning

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going to go because I have no place to go. I'm confident it's between three and five, but I'm pretty sure it's four. But because I'm on the record, I'm going to say I'm I think it's four. >> Thank you. Yeah, >> it's a little bit in the weeds, but for

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the areas where food trucks are currently approved for, is there any language about standoff from residential areas? So, for example, if that zone were to abut residential, is there language on the books today that prevents food trucks from being up

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against that residential area? >> Yeah. When you say residential area, are you talking about like a district that we've zoned as residential or Okay. So, I think like you're you're imagining like on the

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line of a zoning district, here's a super residential district. Here's this. >> I don't know that we have anything written. Let me read it right now. >> Okay. And again, I realize that could be up to the licensing board to again approve or deny based on that, but just curious.

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>> No, that's a good question. We've got specific provisions written for schools. I know you'll be happy for that one. And we've got that you cannot operate on private property without the owner of the property. We don't have specific language about distance from a residential district. And I think you're

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right about the license commissioners noting that, but we don't have it written, you know, x amount of feet from a residential district. >> Okay. Thank you. I will say that the PDD2, the one you're considering tonight, is

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enveloped on both sides by an industrial district, a TED district, RC2, which is beach, beach apartments, GB, general business, and then the very top behind the high school would be the

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closest you'd get to a residential district. It wouldn't be on the school property anyways is my guess. But >> so I'm I I know where there's at least two. I know there's one in Beachmont by Delmos.

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>> I think it it's on private property. I know >> the liquor store one. >> Yes. >> Yep. I think I know that one. And then there's another one on that would be Lee Burbank Highway >> and that's again on private property. So there's two. Where are the other two?

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>> I don't know. I know. I know the one on the liquor store that you're talking about in Beachmont. I don't know where the other ones are. I can definitely find out for you where the other ones are. They'd have to be either.

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Oh, I know there's one on the beach. One or two on the beach. One's definitely on the beach. One's maybe incoming to the beach. I know that. >> That's where I was trying to figure out. >> Yep. >> There are two on the beach. >> Yes. >> And they are on the green area.

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>> You hid that from me. You had me ponder. >> They are not on the uh on the sidewalk. They're not in the inated areas when they first did re beach and re redoing it and they they made a curbing outlay

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for it which I never saw a food truck there because uh for whatever reason I think it was the expense. So, but let me just say the two on Rea Beach are brilliant. It's the best plan. I don't

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know how it happened. I don't know who did it, but it's it's in a perfect place. It's it's not owned by I guess it's I I'm not sure that if it's DCR. >> Yep. >> All right. I'm not sure. Um like when

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you go closer to Beachmont by Elliot by Elliot Circle, that that area of the boulevard would be Rever and then it shifts into DCR. But uh I I was just we were just talking

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about this not too long ago, but the only part that's very hard for this for the truck business is that it's on an incline area. The truck is not plum. And being in the carpenters union, we

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know how how you want everything >> fix the floor. So the part that I would like to see because I don't know how Ree stumbled upon it but I think it should be known that is the perfect area for it and I

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would just like to maybe make a motion later on is that the DCR community development u mayor's representative and also our state representatives and state senator maybe have some kind

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of joint meeting because we all know that the sand castles are not a fly by night uh thing anymore. I mean, the mayor's taken people here from other cities and showing what we've been doing for the past how many years has it been now? It's got to be over what 50 years,

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I think, for uh >> at least 25. >> At least 25. Yeah. So, it's it's here and let's make people more comfortable and try to make businesses more comfortable. and DCR. They do a number of things out in Newton

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and they do a number of things with Boston College. Uh they do a number of things with the other areas of the Espanard. Uh which is it's in Boston and it's in Cambridge.

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But Revier has a has a chance now because of what we are attracting what the mayor is trying to do and the new image that uh that is now here in Riviera. And I if you have a trailer

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um and you go you take your trailer, you put it on on your on your land area, they give you a service, they give you a concrete base, they'll give you water, and they'll give you an electric connection. And I think that should be on the agenda for a joint meeting to to

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speak about that you make a level a level pad. And the one objection that was up here and it was it was quite contentious is that there was a food truck here on on Broadway and it was

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right here in front of city hall and there was a lot of complaints about the decibb of the generator which the generator is the is is the worst thing about a food truck. But if you had a pad and you had water to hook up to and you

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had an electric meter there, it could be on a pole, it could be whatever it is for them to hook up their, you know, their their needs of the of the food truck. That would get rid of the decibel

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monitoring that the board of health has to go out there for a food truck. So, I I would ask that if we can think of a motion or I'll come up with a motion for a joint venture because that is the most

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realistic spot I have ever seen in Reia and I don't know who who to give credit to, but I think we ought to expand on that idea. >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's a wonderful idea. If you motion to send a communication to the city council, to

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the mayor's office, to DPCD, and to the local DCR office of the planning board's recommendation that um those offices all work together to better accommodate food trucks in that central beachy area. I know last night at the city council

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meeting um councelor Sylvestri I believe was praising over in Middleton I guess they've got like a food truck park essentially where there's hookups and appropriate spaces and people can intentionally go there and explore what type of um offerings they have and I

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think that's a great idea. I also want to praise Maggie Haney, our licensing administrator, who has um advocated for a long time on behalf of the food truck um business owners to be on River Beach because when you get into questions of

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jurisdiction between the DCR and the city of River, it gets murky sometimes. So, I know she um has been advocating for the beach as well on behalf of our of our food truck. So, I think that's a great idea. >> Maybe you can Sorry. Maybe you can help us when we

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come to the regular meeting and uh to entertain exactly what we're saying. Unless there's any objection, you like to add anything else in. >> No, I think the only thing will be if the restaurant doesn't sell the same food as the food truck. I think it'll

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it'll be a push back. I'm in favor of it no matter what, but I think it'll be a push back. I don't know if it happened in the past already. they had that on the books and like I said it was very difficult um for the city to determine what is the same food

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is Peruvian food the same as is Peruvian restaurant selling ceviche and tacos the same as a Mexican food truck selling tacos and something else. it gets very murky and it was very very difficult for the city to enforce that and it almost

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comes down to a something that's almost too discretionary. Um and we have to tread very lightly when we're determining what's the same food because the same food for me maybe is not the same food for you. So you're not the first one um to raise that concern. You're definitely not.

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>> Yeah. And I Well, let's say Mexicans, right? Fajitas, tacos, and we know the uh that on these trucks they sell that type of food. So I'll that's that'll be the only thing but I'm definitely in favor of it. I think it'd be good for the

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city. >> Wonderful. >> I believe if we go back to the hopefully the resolution or the proposal that we make is that Army Via Beach he there there are two restaurants near I think it's fine Line. I think it's drift and

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then of course you have Starbucks up there. It's well over a 100 yards. It's not it's it's uh if you're going to walk the distance back and forth. And the other thing is is that on Riviera Beach where these two other trucks are, they

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they are near the public restrooms. So you're not going into another private restaurant to wash your hands or use the restroom be and they well we're only open just for patrons. You're not going to have that issue there. So

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before we start expanding it all over the place, I think maybe can we put the recommendation on to Rever Beach and do it there instead of right now the only ones that are that are doing it is on private land and they're going to do it

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no matter what. And that's their and that's their choice. If they want to do it, that's up to them. But before we start putting it in in other zones, I I I would I I'm going to propose that before we uh put it into the other areas

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that were recommended is that a joint meeting or a conference happen to to understand that we can do this on Revier Beach and and be more practical about it instead of sticking it here, sticking it there, put it there. it I I think it it

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happened and I think it's the best thing I've seen for food trucks and I know the the area Middleton Middleton was one of the first ones, but it's a dust bowl. It's all on it's uh it's not like the canteen truck that we have at our construction site, but it

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it's a it's it's different. It is nice. Uh and one person owns it, but it's it's dusty. It's all in rock. It's on peace. It's on uh it's not on a green area like the one on Revier Beach. That's why I think Revier Beach is exceptional for this.

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>> I just want to make sure you all know. So, it is permitted on River Beach already. It's the DCR who has the first say in how many folks can go there. And the only other areas where it's allowed are Suffach Downs, Highway Business, and

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the TEED. Anyone on private property, you have to be zoned to be there. So, if they're existing right now on private property, they're in a zone that we've said they can go in. So, if you added the if if you recommended to the council to add PDD2,

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it would still need the permission of the property owner, the license commission approval. So, they are already zoned on the beach just to make sure. >> So, just for an example of a PDD uh 2 >> uh area uh which is a proposed development

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>> or planned development, I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Where is there a a large planned development that could be affected by this? >> So, the Wonderland Shopping Mall has expressed interest that property owner in leasing a portion of his private

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property, his or her, I don't know who they are, >> Atlantic. >> They are private property to a food truck operator within the shopping mall parking lot. >> So, there you go again. So, uh, not not you personally, but you're putting a

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food truck where he already is leasing out to a number of food establishments there already. So, I don't think it's fair for the person who does the brick and mortar. And then you have a few banks over

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there. Yeah, the ward counselor has worked um ward counselor Ira Novaski has worked with John Fesa, the property owners, and the tenants within that shopping mall uh to advance this proposal before the city council. >> And then you're going to have the the generator. You're going to have the uh

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the noise pro problem and right across the street from a brand new high school. >> Yeah, like I said, you're next to an MBTA station that runs trains all day. So, I'm not sure how the the noise of a food truck factors against the the busy

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rotary and a regional transit hub. >> Well, >> it's something to take into account. >> They solve this in Beach One. And everybody that comes to Beach One, when you're speaking and a plane comes over, you put your head down for the five or 10 seconds that the plane comes. I'm

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sure that you don't need a generator constantly going on and being there for whatever nights. and the train only comes by every 15 minutes or whatever. So, we've been bearing that for a few decades, >> right? >> But to to constant and then you're going

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to have the wires and in the where you're going to get the water and you're in the middle of a of a shopping area, then you're going to have cars parking around you and I'd rather see the time spent back on Rev Beach where it belongs in my view.

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Yeah, >> I could be wrong, but >> No, I know it's been asked for. I know the DCR has been contacted before about expanding that area and there's there's been some resistance on that end, but um it's definitely something to >> It appears that the new DCR director,

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who I do not know, opened up. Somebody did something. Maybe we ought to find out who did it and, you know, then and let's expand on it. Yeah, we have I know our licensing administrator works very closely with the local DCR manager who works down

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there on river. Um so that sentiment will definitely be be passed along. >> Thank you. >> Is there a distance for the noise when it comes to food trucks? >> So we have a noise ordinance here in River that applies to anyone and

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everyone. As you can imagine, it's very difficult to enforce. We get complaints about construction starting too early. We get complaints about cars revving their engine really loud at like a car meetup, stuff like that. Um, I don't want to speak for the police department at all, but I know that the decibel

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readings are outdated. It's it's very discretionary if you show up. I mean, the police officer has to make that decision like, is this loud? Is this not loud? I lived in East Boston behind a very busy, loud restaurant also with planes flying overhead. And I know that

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many times my neighbors in my building would call Boston police uh to come respond. And every time they responded, because I'm a nerd working for the city, I would look like, "Oh, do they have the decibel reader?" They did not have the decibel reader. They would just come show up and say, "Hey, this is way too

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loud. You got to shut it down." So, we do have a noise ordinance. It's been updated. It's been it's had teeth put into it many in many attempts, but you know, it ultimately comes down to the police being able to triage certain calls to respond to um

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this type of thing. I know I mean I work here. When we had the food truck here, none of us in here really could hear it, but we're in a very old wooden building. So, you know, it all depends on personal taste, personal preference. But food trucks would fall under the category of

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the noise ordinance applying to something making a noise from a lot line is how it's measured is from a property line to where the noise is coming from. >> Has there been any proposals about the overlook? >> What is that? Has there been any proposals about food trucks over the

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overlook? >> I believe that's Malden. Um I believe >> uh >> Overlook Ridge apartment buildings. I haven't heard any proposals over there. I know >> I'd have to look more zoomed in on the

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map, but they would be >> RA1 and a mix of HB. Um, that's definitely something that I can pass along to the small business liaison and to Frank um, if that location would be suitable. It'd be up to the owner of the

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property. I'm not sure how they would feel about that because it's purely residential in there, but I haven't heard anything myself about it >> because I don't think there is a restaurant in there. >> No, I think it's just >> probably about 4,000 residents. Yeah, if >> I'm not mistaken.

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>> And a fire department. So you have a pot shop in that area with no food establishments. >> So one thing just to clarify to make sure I'm understanding correctly. If we were to vote favorably to

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>> make PDD2 a yes for food trucks, they would still have to clear a number of hurdles in order to operate in that zone. Right? They'd have to clear traffic, port of health, get a license, probably three or four other things that I'm not stating. Is that right?

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>> No, you're completely correct. If they are proposing to be on public property, the police department's going to have to approve that at the license commission. If they are proposing to be on there's not much public property over there that we could approve as the city. I mean, we can't let them sit in the rotary, but if

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it's on private property, which it would most likely be in that area, we would have to have the property owner um give his permission. And I would assume the property owner, if he is a landlord, would have to make sure with his tenants, you know, that their sub leases are all in accordance in terms of

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non-competes and stuff like that. Um, but they would have to go through all of the inspections. They have to get licensed by the state via a hawker's license that involves Corey checks. They have to do a number of things before they can even go up before the licensing

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commission who then will take concerned about people who are concerned about noise. If someone lives in a really noisy area and a food truck wants to add themselves to that noise, that person should and I would suggest come to the license commission meeting and say,

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"Hey, I called my counselor. I'm here. This is a really noisy area. You don't know it, but there's a house behind that business." You know, something like that. So there are numerous uh hurdles in place. It is a hurdle before they can even get to the license commission and then they would have to

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get the licensing commission's approval to be in that location and pay all of the fees that are associated. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah, it makes sense to me that they would be in this zone. I think some of the other hurdles they would certainly have to address and find

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a solution for. But yeah, it makes sense to me. Sorry, just one quick question. You mentioned the non-competes between the food trucks and the brick and mortars. Are there any non-competes between the say there's like multiple food trucks like just you mentioned there's two others that are well or there's four

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operating in the city that can be in one vicinity. Is there any sort of regulation between cuisine types or is that less stringent when it comes to food trucks? Yeah. So, when I'm referencing non-competes, I'm speaking I'm referencing specifically if I'm a landlord and I have my tenants

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typically, and I don't want to speak for landlords because I'm not a landlord. Typically, landlords of commercial properties who lease to food businesses. If I'm a food business, I want to make sure my lease says in this shopping mall while I am here, I sell sandwiches. No

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one else in this shopping mall can sell sandwiches. That is pretty standard from my limited understanding um of the commercial tenant uh relationship in terms of between food trucks. There is nothing that the city involves itself in

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in terms of the food trucks interacting with each other. So if we had a let me use a different example. If we had a Euro like a Greek sandwich food truck uh operating on this private property and

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another Greek sandwich food truck wanted to also go right next to him, I'm not sure that property owner, it'd be crazy. It could happen, but I'm not sure the property owner is going to sour the relationship that he has contractually with the Greek sandwich uh food truck that was there first and then go and

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sign another uh permission slip for another Greek Euro food truck to operate in that same exact place. Anything else? Okay. Are there any other proponents here to speak to this this evening? Hearing and seeing none. Are there any

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opponents to speak to this this evening? Hearing and seeing none. Are ready to to get to close the public hearing and get to the vote. Okay.

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Well, let's do body art first. Are there any any motions you want to add to the body art measure? >> Body art. So, we're going to go with the first in order. >> Did we just end the public hearing?

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>> Yes, we did. >> Body art. >> Yes. Yes. So the only thing I would ask is that the uh body art be treated the same as

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the building department regarding workman's comp and workers liability to be produced before any approvals are are given in their permitting. So that's a permitting process I believe. So I would ask that

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the uh the body arts uh in the rea building department and ISD have a criteria for workman's comp and general liability >> within the permitting structure. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Is that okay?

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>> The board of health does permit them. I don't know if you want to redirect that to the board of health's attention. >> The board of health would do a sanitary inspection which is different. They permit the establishment itself. >> They do have a a permitting, but the use and occupancy comes from the building

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department, >> right? But we'd want to make sure we're not um we can't discriminate in our zoning and make a business uh produce something that we do not make another similarly situated business that we don't ask of

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hair salons, for example, would be similar. hair salons, barber shops. If we're not asking it of them, it wouldn't be a good practice to ask that of the tattoo parlor is my opinion. >> A number of restaurants throughout the years and the one permit I never could

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get why we needed it because I don't know of anyone down in any border health department statewide in all 351 towns. The first thing you have to do is pay for a milk license. When is the last time somebody inspected our milk that we're paying a license for?

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>> So, all I'm asking is that they treat the business coming in to make sure that once you start piercing someone's body, at least you have workman's crop and some kind of general liability. >> Yeah. It's your guys' recommendation to them. So,

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>> so that it's not unduly restrictive compared to other businesses. Is there a particular wording that you would recommend? Just as you said, not unduly restrictive. Perfect. Okay. Would we like to vote on this now? >> Certainly. So, the motion reads for a

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permit to be considered proof of liability and workman's compensation insurance as required as long as this is not unduly restrictive relative to smaller businesses. So similar businesses. >> Yes. >> Okay. Abrams, your vote is yes. >> Yes.

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>> Miss Hoffman. >> Yes. >> Mr. Rivera. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. Motion passes. I did.

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I voted favorably. I noted it. I didn't speak it. >> So, on the amendment for food trucks, >> is there a motion we'd like to add to this one? >> Yes, if you don't mind. Is it okay? >> Okay.

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>> So, Um I'm just asking for a temporary moratorum uh before we go on to the next step and that we have a uh we recommend that a joint meeting between I I think you

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named them very well clear it would be the mayor's office community development uh the state representatives uh and state senator and I DCR representatives And if there is any other maybe is there

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a food >> the licensing administrator Maggie Haney may be helpful in that meeting. >> Yes. and uh John Fesa who's the head of uh the business small businesses if they could have a joint meeting

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to expand on the idea of food trucks where two are presently on Riviera Beach on I'm going to call it the green area. Um, and if they can expand on the idea of a pad and

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services and electric that would make food trucks less incumbent with noise and better sanitary conditions. So the motion would be to report unfavorably on the amendment before you tonight to add to the food truck table

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and instead send a recommendation for a moratorum on food trucks in the city of River and replace that with this meeting. >> Um, you just back up a little. Um, maybe we can just table I said moratorum. We

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can table the uh the recommendation by this the city council by extending the zoning. So we're tableabling that until the meeting would take place with uh the people and the agencies DCR and uh until

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after the meeting and hopefully they resolve instead of keep on putting food trucks here here. I think the rea beach is probably one of the better plans we've uh we've ever seen along Re Beach. So to make sure that I'm following

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correctly, um your the motion is to recommendation for cross-governmental collaboration to meet and innovate on further incorporation of food truck infrastructure in support of use. But that would also be a favorable vote for

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food trucks for just kind of expanding that footprint. But I want to say where the local is. >> That's that's by by issue of the amendment. Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Is that okay?

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>> Would you like it worded differently than this? >> I just want to make sure that on the proposal that's before you tonight, which is PDD2. That would be an unfavorable recommendation to the city council. I just want to make sure that's

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what that would be. You rejecting the proposal. And then you're amending you're amending it with we would like to instead see River Beach only and see this meeting happen. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Is that okay? Is that all right you want to ask?

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>> So basically we are in favor but we have to have this meeting in order to vote on it. Is that what you're saying now? >> Is that uh instead of keep on adding to the IC or the HB or the TED or the PD? >> So those already exist. Those exist currently.

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>> Yes. I'm just saying instead of keep on finding zone areas >> one the first you know something is not really welll liked in rea because oh let's just put it in the ted area because there's very limited tent so if

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you don't want to do something everybody throws it in a tent but here we have a chance on revier beach which is are we licensing those two uh or we don't know >> all food trucks that are operating in re are licensed by our licensed committ So

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I that's why I'm saying is so the people that helped put that together now expand that idea instead of having food trucks in every other zone area that we really don't want to put them in >> you or or we

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>> clear is there a is there a limit when it comes to this uh situation um on having food trucks in the districts? >> Yes. So, I mean, zoning has to make sure it is not uh we call it spot zoning, and that's when you get really into the

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weeds and you pick and choose and it's not really a good place you want to be. So, we keep our zoning very general and we say it's either allowed here or it is not. Restaurants are allowed here or they are not allowed. Um, labs are allowed here or they are not allowed. And then below the zoning come our

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authorities having jurisdiction over those businesses. So, you know, we have federal involvement in certain types of businesses. Food trucks don't trigger that type of oversight. They are overseen by city hall through the health department and the fire department and

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they are overseen from our licensed commissioners who are appointed just like you all are here on our planning board. So, we it is limited in the sense that if you have a liquor license, it's limited because liquor licenses are capped by a population. food trucks.

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They don't have a cap on them because we just we're not anywhere near needing a cap. We've got four right now uh in a city of 65,000 people. So, we haven't seen a need to place a limit. Um especially if you're talking about

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expanding them even more into River Beach, I don't think we would want to place a limit. So, that's why we don't have one right now. I just want to point out it's my opinion that they're both good ideas and they're not mutually exclusive. I think that

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it's a good idea to change PDD2 to yes, but it's also a really good idea to convene a meeting like you mentioned, right, to have all those parties come together to talk about River Beach. I think both are good ideas and they shouldn't necessarily

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exclude each other. >> Garrett, to that point, would Um so so to give a recommendation or a suggestion I don't think is negating the amendment. >> That's my position that I think we should vote favorably

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>> but also >> suggest meeting in the future if they hold that meeting. >> We don't need to be present at that meeting. >> Correct. >> I agree with that. >> What is would a suggestion be allowed? >> Yes. though I don't want to speak for the chair or your rules of order, but if

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I may, uh the two amendments before you tonight will be a vote each. So, you will vote to recommend favorably or unfavorably the body art provisions with your amendment that you already voted on about the um liability component and

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then your other vote will be on the amendment for the food trucks proposed by the city planner. You can add to that or you can take up another vote after. If somebody were to motion to recommend

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X, Y or Z to these applicable entities, that would be a vote as well. So they can be together or they can be two separate votes. >> I believe with my colleague that a recommendation is allowed by a planning board that we could recommend Yeah. >> uh other other uh governmental boards or

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or ideas with it. So, if you want to make a a motion for the the planned uh development, fine. And then uh >> do you want to do you want to do that? Uh, do you want to do the uh proposal first or you want to do the uh

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>> So, since you already voted on body art to keep it consistent, I would recommend voting on the food truck amendment and then somebody hypothetically could motion to also make a recommendation that would go out al together all three

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of those on the proposed meeting and beach focused um discussion. >> Want to do that? >> Yeah. Good. >> Yeah. I think in that way it can be three separate. We've already voted on the first a separate vote on the PDD2

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and then uh a motion on holding the the joint meeting around River Beach. >> Is there any different wording than you would recommend? Um, I've got currently recommendation for cross-governmental collaboration to meet and innovate on

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further incorporation of food truck infrastructure in support of use. >> I just want to add >> Yeah, great. But how do you want that worded? >> Yeah. BA based on what I've heard, I would interpret that as wanting the

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cross departmental intergovernmental meeting um to further support food truck enterprises in the RC2 district. Um and that's why DCR is being called is because they have jurisdiction over that grass area, that mar wide meridian that

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I believe you're referring to between Ocean and River Beach Boulevard, right? >> So if we could go to my colleagues u recommendation for the PD uh plan development area to expand and then you can read that. Is that okay?

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>> Sure. I'm just trying to make sure that I get the wording correct for the sheet. Um and you said that that is BC district >> RC2. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. So, someone could motion to vote on a recommendation for the PDD2

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amendment. >> So, I'd like to motion uh favorably for the PD2 uh amendment. I think I phrased that incorrectly, but hopefully the chair understood. >> Thank you. I would also like to vote

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favorably in the PD2 in the PDD2 district. >> All right. You vote on that? Go right ahead. >> Yes. On the on the proposal. >> Abrams. Yes. He stands is absent. Huffman. Is Hoffman. What would you like?

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>> Uh yes. >> Yes. >> And present. >> I'm a yes as well. >> Thank you. Oh, Mr. Fox not here. Um are there any further matters on that that you want to >> So now I would ask a recommendation go

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to the river city council and the mayor's office regarding the food truck areas to be discussed by all the agencies involved that uh could you please read exactly what you have as the motion please Glenn >> based on my interpretation of what's

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being discussed in the meeting I believe the motion would be for the DCR are for the state delegation that includes our representatives and our senator for the mayor's office and for the department of

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community development which includes the chief of planning Tom Scorseski our city planner that you know Frank Stringy and John Fesa small business liaison and the licensing administrator

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um was that all of our folks I think it is um that they meet to discuss further support and collaboration with food trucks in the RC2 district.

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And if Frank does the minutes for this meeting, I can fill him in. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Try to jot out all of this if possible, too. Thank you. >> Everything's recorded, which makes it easier. and you would vote on that

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recommendation in the same way. I've got it categorized as as part of the motion that we're going to include with that particular amendment. I'm still jotting down so I can't read it back to you just yet.

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>> All right. So I would >> certainly so >> on the proposed amendment >> a recommendation on the proposed recommendation You don't have to read the whole thing, >> right? I'm trying to make sure that we

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got all the pieces, but to to Claire's categorization here, right? So, when we read back the minutes from the meeting, um to be able to make sure that we got the recommendations straight to vote on this matter, right? Um

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>> yes. >> Okay. Miss Hoffman. >> Yes, >> Mr. Rivera. >> Yes, >> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Great.

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>> Okay. >> Do we have a motion to close? to adjourn. >> Okay. >> Wonderful. Thank you for your time tonight. >> Thank you.