Are we all ready? All right. >> Call to order the meeting of the mayor and council uh and the assistance budget committee of the Burough River Edge uh council chambers and virtually through Zoom special meeting 8. Well, it is now
8:09 due to some technical issues. We're starting on slightly late. We appreciate everyone's understanding. In a moment, could I have In a moment, could we have a moment of silent prayer for all of our uh service men and women as well as uh for all those involved in the peace
process and all those who are innocent people who may or may not be in the uh midst of uh battle conditions. Council President, if you could lead us in the pledge. To the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thought you were talking to Lisa first. >> All right. Statement of um compliance with the open public meeting act. This
meeting complies with the open public meeting app by notification on January 9th, 2026 and January 12th, 2026 of the time, date, location, and access information to the town news in the record and by posting of the same on the municipal bulletin board and the burough
website and following notice of the same with the municipal clerk. Madame clerk, roll call, please. >> Sure. Councilwoman Monsano Cohen >> here. >> Council President Capella >> here. Councilwoman Malari >> here. >> Councilman Glass >> here. Jarwall >> here. >> Here.
>> Mayor P. >> Good. Now, can we have a roll call of the citizen budget committee >> if you have that with you? >> Uh, Ken Crowis >> here. >> Al Roman >> here.
>> Greg >> here. >> Uh, Donna Sanders is absent with prior notice. And uh >> Joe >> is on his way. >> Okay. >> All right. So that we have that. Okay. Uh could I have a motion second to open
to public comments? >> So moved. >> Second. >> It has been moved and second. All in favor please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any abstension? Hearing none. It is so moved. We are open. There is no one in chambers. Is there anyone virtually? >> We No, we do not. Correct. No, it
doesn't look like anybody other than >> Could I have a motion? Second to close to the public since >> moved. >> Second. >> All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Okay, we're going to start with the fire department because of a conflicted of interest. We hope everybody understands
that this is a slight change. And uh Chief Sanders, uh we're going to follow the following protocol. We're going to have 20 up to 20 minutes for presentation, 10 minutes for question and answers. If uh if the presentation
needs to be longer then the uh presenter can ask the council to extend beyond the 20 minutes. If the council wishes to ask more questions it can extend itself beyond the 10 minutes. But what we're going to try to do if possible based on
my reading and the reading of others of the uh budget that has been presented by the finance committee is try to complete the entire budget process in one day. that's not proc possible. We will absolutely go to the second Saturday. Um
so, uh Chief Sanders, uh you have the floor. Good morning and thank you for this opportunity. So, let's start off with the capital for the fire department. Uh knowing what's going on with the burrow and with uh with the
financing. So I have 300,000 budgeted for the replacement of the ladder truck which is a be partial funding. I like to drop that to 100 uh to 200,000. Reason being because there's there uh
couple things came up after I submitted the uh submitted the budgeted stuff for for this year. Uh so with that being dropped, I also want to remove the key fob entry system at 10 thou for the
10,000. So uh dropping my budget to dropping that part to dropping 110,000 out of my capital. Uh but turnout gear and equip turnout gear price has gone up. So I want to
like to increase that to 25,000. That's an increase of five. uh purchase of pagers that I want to group in as a communication equipment. We have a base station that's located in the police department which is probably
older than a lot of us that are here today. That was actually the same base station that we used in the old and I'm talking about old police desk back in the uh 70s. >> I'm just going to interrupt you for a second. Let the record show that Mr. Gordier is present. Chief, continue.
Okay. So, uh the purchase of pages is uh $5,000. Just to bring that up to 40, uh 35 would be more or less for the equipment for the new base station. Uh and this will bring us up to the up to the sign of the
times the times. Uh and uh this this we've had power we've had failures of this communicate of these uh base station twice already this year. So uh it was recommended by our
communications department gootown that we change over as soon as we can. uh hose replacement I have $10,000 in. That would be a item that if we didn't use it, it would go to the following year.
So if we used only 2,000 next year in cap in capital, we would only ask for 2,000. We just want to keep like a $10,000 uh cushion in there because hose hose is constantly going up. It's not cheap. So, if we have to replace a
couple lengths of hose after hose testing, it uh works out. Uh so, it looks like I've cut my budget about 35,000 for capital. Uh under operational, I'm sorry, uh under
operational. >> Stay for a second, Chief. For a second, let's just review this. You're incre you're requesting that the the draft capital budget be altered. Uh turnout gear and equipment increased by 5 to
25,000. Purchase of patrons to be retitled communication equipment. Uh changed from 5,000 to 40,000 which would be uh 35 for the communication station and five for pagers. You're recommending
that uh we keep the hose replacement at 10, the multi- gas meter replacement at 950 has no recommendation came. So I guess it would stay that way. Keep fob door entry system uh reduced from 10,000 to zero and replacement 2003 ladder
truck funding from 300,000 to 200,000 a reduction of 100,000. Is that correct, Chief? >> That is correct. >> All right. Um, so, uh, since this is a draft and is not an adopted budget, um, and, uh, I think we're basically budget
neutral from in request, uh, does the, um, does the finance chair find this acceptable to ask the the, uh, the body to, uh, to make the changes to the draft? >> Um, Chief, thank you. I I I'm good with
everything else, but just because it's a this is on a needs basis, is is it possible to uh reduce the ladder truck funding to 100,000 and make up the difference maybe next year? >> That anything's possible. Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> So, I would recommend that and then everything else I'm okay with uh with the increases because those are essential um items for the fire department. So, Chief, uh you are you said anything was possible. Are you good
with uh uh changing the capital from 300,000 to 100,000? >> Yeah. >> All right. The replacement. Uh so, let me turn to the citizen budget citizens. Are the citizens any member of the
citizen budget committee um have any comment about these draft changes? I would say as long as >> I would say as long as the chief is okay with it, then I would be as well. >> All right. Is there any other member of
the citizens budget committee who would like to chime in? Uh Mr. Ruleman, >> uh Chief, I I got maybe two questions for you. Item, can you tell me what the hose replacement that you currently have now?
>> Uh it's based on as needed. It's not we didn't have uh we've taken it out in the past and this is the first year we're putting it back in probably in the last 10 years. >> Okay. So this is there's nothing in that that line now. >> No. >> Okay. All right. That's fine then. Thank you. The the other question I have is
the the I have some indications that the ladder truck has to go out of service I guess in five years because of some statute. Is that correct? Uh that's possibility but I can't
guarantee it. Uh there is a person on the on the citizens committee that has more knowledge of that. Uh if you want to ask if we want to bring >> if you want to uh if you want to recognize someone to answer that question you may do so.
>> Yeah. Uh Greg Kitty could probably answer that better than I could. So Al in answer to your question the uh all fire apparatus are governed by the National Fire Protection Association 1900 standard and it is a recommended
standard. Uh it is nationally followed in the country and in there there's a recommendation um that apparatus be replaced after 25 years of service. It's only a recommendation. Many municipalities are running fire trucks that are beyond
that, 28, 29, 30 years old. Um, the fact that the apparatus are taken care of here in town, we could easily get another, you know, several years out of that truck. Um, so it's just a recommendation. That's all it is. It's
not it's not a hard fact. >> Okay. I I don't have any I don't have any objections to the to the reduction. I'm just concerned that we're kicking something down the road that may come back to bite us later on in the the the
future. So I I was under the impression there was a requirement if it's a recommendation and I know you maintain your vehicles very well. So I have no objections to the change, >> Mr. Cross. >> Okay.
>> Sorry, I was going on the same line as Al. Uh just making sure we weren't kicking it down the can and the can is going to hit us right in the head in two years or 3 years. >> Excellent. Anyone else? >> Uh Al, your hand is still up. Is there u Mr. Roman? Is there Does everybody mind
if I just use first names? >> No problem. >> Al, uh do you put the hand back down, I guess. Okay. Uh council comments if any. >> I do have one just one question chief Sanders on the uh pagers that we're
changing to come equipment meaning a new station and pagers does that include soft costs and installment and maintenance. Could you elaborate on the need of that long term and what are we looking in 27 like 5,000
what we going to be looking at? uh we continue to uh update our pager system that does include the cost of uh of programming so we won't have to worry about programming it's all based in one.
>> Okay. Okay. And how many pagers? uh true to be about six to eight depending on uh any increases from the from the uh Motorola.
>> Thank you. >> I have a question. >> Yes, Councilman. Uh yes, good morning, Chief. you mentioned the um the budget of 10,000 for the hoses and if I'm not mistaken I believe you said that you
probably only need the 2,000 but you want to keep a little few thousand extra 8,000 extra as a cushion um first of all am I understanding that correctly >> no I used the 2,000 as an example if we only used 2,000 of that 10,000 then the
next next capital year next here, we would only ask for 2,000. We want to keep that 10,000 as a cushion for the future. This way, if we have to go out and make a big purchase, >> uh, a length of 100 ft hose can cost almost $2,500.
>> Okay. Thank you for that. Um, so I'm so in light of that, I'm just wondering because you also mentioned that the cost of hoses goes up every year. So, I'm just wondering if it makes sense, and of course, it's your call ultimately, but this is just for clarification. I'm
wondering if it makes sense to buy hosed material or hoses in advance rather than save the money now, but end up spending more next year. >> Uh, I can I wouldn't think so. I mean,
we've always had some type of hose replacement program. We haven't had to buy hoses in the last I'm going to say 10 years due to we got new vehicles and when we bought the new vehicles we incorporated uh new hose so we really didn't have to buy uh hose in the past
couple years when we do our hose testing it's uh shown that we've had to replace some hose older hose I mean our hoses probably are within 20 years and they're still really reliable but at any time
when during the testing they could fail and at that time we would have to re re uh purchase them. So I think staying at 10,000 and just using it as almost like a rainy uh as a slush fund would would be profit us better than it would
wouldn't. >> Understood. Thank you. I have nothing else. >> Any other member of council? >> All right, chief. Um could uh could I have a motion and second to alter the draft? Understanding that it is just a draft. >> So move.
>> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any abstension? Hearing none. The capital is altered to do as specified. Chief, go ahead with operation. >> Okay. So, this should be easy because I
only sort uh I kept most of it the same uh except for three items I want to change. Uh >> uniform >> reference numbers. >> Yes. Uh >> what page is it on? >> Gage
page I guess it says 57. It's uh uniform repair 03255032. >> Thank you. >> Uh it it's requested that three $100 are in there. >> Mhm. >> I like to change that to eight. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where are
we? Which one? >> Page 57. >> Yeah. Uh the second line 032 >> uniform. >> Yes. >> Uniform repair. >> Yes. >> To what? >> To 800 chief. >> Yes. Now in order to in order to keep
the uh cap the operation the same amount uh office supply 036. >> In the past past year uh we only used 334. I like to drop that to 500, which would bring that down $250.
>> And on page 58, the fire fire siren maintenance is at 750, which we really haven't used in last 5 years from 750 to 500. So there's another uh 250 savings. So basically
taking the $500 from those two items and putting it into the uniform repair basically equals everything out. >> Okay, >> Chief, is those the only changes you're asking for in the operation draft?
>> Uh, also I'm sorry. I had I had uh uh page 61 software contract 196. You'll you'll see a significant increase. That is because we had to go
to a federallymandated new uh reporting system and the startup cost was uh almost $4,000. So that will be reduced next year because we don't have to pay the startup cost. So that this is just uh a one-time
uh uh increase. >> I'm sorry, which one is that again, Chief? >> Software 196. >> Page 61. >> Oh, I see. I see. Okay, Chief, anything else? >> No, that's it.
Uh well in a second. So um any member of citizen budget committee who have a question or comment? Citizen budget committee members. I >> I just have one thing real quick. Uh and it's not a change or anything. Page 60. It's more of a clarification. Uh line
190. It says re reallocate cap hose. Um and you see $750 there. I don't want people to get confused that that's for hose. Uh back in 23, I think that was my last year as chief, we changed that for
maintenance of the firefighter monument across the street of company one. And the council was gracious enough to give the fire department $750 per year. And as you can see, we've used that. So, I just want to clarify that that's for the members of the budget committee and the
council that if you're looking through there and you see hose, I know we just had a discussion on hose. Uh that line 190 has nothing to do with hose. So, I don't know if there's a way and I'll yield to the finance committee and uh Chris if there's a way that that can
be changed that that um heading so there's no confusion in the future. That's all I have. Chief Sanders, um are you um are you in agreement that this line should be renamed? >> Yes. >> And Chief Sanders, what name do you wish to rename it?
>> Uh maintenance uh fire monument maintenance >> Chris uh backl. >> Um can we do that with simply a motion or do we have to create uh def defund the line and incre and create a line?
The the motion's fine and I can change that uh in the system live right now. >> Okay. So when I ask for a motion and second from the body uh this will be in the change will be also considered at the chief's request. Is there any other member of the system budget committee
has a question or comment? >> I do. >> You're not. >> Sorry. >> Not yet. >> Not yet. Okay. Any member of the council who'd like to uh pick a question or comment? >> Go Lisa. >> Sure. I'm still here. Mayor, um Chief
Sanders, just one question on I lost it now. Um >> training. Give me some grace here. Um membership. Membership. Sorry. Uh 044 page 58. I see that uh consistently it's been over
$1,000 and you're requesting 500 and I know we have a a new a lot of new members which is great with 500 through FIC. >> Uh we only we appropriated last year $1,000. Uh we only used 500.
>> No. >> So and that's I that is for the uh tribal association. >> So that's a one done. That's all we have membership for. >> Okay. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. >> Any other member of council?
All right. Could uh um finance chair um are you comfortable with these uh alterations to the u draft budget? >> Yes. Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you. >> All right. that I have a motion and second to approve for for draft's sake
only the draft of the operational budget for the fire department which includes uh a red designation of one of the lines >> second been moved and seconded. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any abstensions.
>> Chief OEM. >> That should be easy. No changes. >> Okay. >> Everything stays the same. >> All right. Uh any member of this budget committee? Do you have a question or a comment about the OEM budget? >> What lines are those?
>> Chief, what pages are OEM? >> Uh 53 through 55. And is there a I thought thought there was something in capital. Is there anything? >> No, there's not. >> That's That's right.
>> So, citizen budget committee members first. Are there any questions or comments in regard to the OEM budget? Seeing none, council, are there any questions or comments about the OEM budget? Thank you, Chief. Uh
>> thank you. >> Uh we appreciate it and uh have a good now going to jump to where we normally begin our meeting by asking our CFO if he can do an overview of where we are. Then we're going to ask the finance
chair and the finance uh committee uh to speak to the work that they've done prior to this meeting. And then from there we'll go return to uh department budgets with um Chief Walker and the police department. Uh Chris uh you also
are a uh co- co- co-host >> co-host. So if you want to take control of the screen for any reason, feel free to do so. >> Thanks, Mayor. I'm not sure if I need to if you want me to share a document, I can share just, you know, the tax impact sheet. I'm just going to go through it
very quickly. um you know the documents that we have in front of us today are a culmination of all the requests uh all the uh prior due diligence that occurred before this meeting. So um they're they've been vetted out uh quite a bit already. Um
this budget year was very difficult and and that's simply because there are a couple of line items that are not within a department that uh increase pretty drastically year-over-year. So, if you look at your tax impact sheet, you know, the the the increase that you see is
just under four and a half%. It's a total change of about $751,000. Um, of that $751,000, $473,000 was the increase in the medical benefits, >> right? So, so you you started pretty far
behind just by virtue of uh being part of the state health benefit program. uh that accounts for about 62% of your total increase. Um all of the salary and wages combined uh about $136,000 increase. It sounds like it's a lot, but
that's only 1.65%. Right? So you see that it's not that's not where where you know a big change occurred in this budget. Uh wastewater management, right? We we um we use VCA which is the Bergen County Utility Authority. uh we have
arrangements with the Hackinack and Pramis the amounts combined is about $86,000 there. Um those are estimates we have not received the final uh numbers for 2026 and that uh anticipates a 5% increase in in those charges but that's
$86,000 uh electric and gas just utility charges new based on the new rates that occurred. Um $82,000. Uh and and last, and I only mentioned it because it's a standalone item, uh the library, uh 1/3 mill, that's another
$66,000. So between those five items by itself, that's $844,000 increase. You see our budget's only going up by 757. We used $168,000 of fund balance to help offset the increases. Uh 168,000 of additional fund
balance to help offset the increases. Um, so those six line items that I just gave you right there, about 90% of of everything that you're looking at. Uh, when you look at that summary, you can see capital and debt service, not really material change. The operating budgets in the departments, not really a
material change. Both of them are 40 $45,000. Uh, and the rest of the line items, um, I just gave you the the largest, um, item in each of those categories. Um, the only other uh thing that I want to mention is I know it seems like, you
know, we're using $160,000 more fund balance. I want to go through that really quickly. Uh, our fund balance, if you look at our financial statement, which is actually just completed uh on Friday, uh, that Friday, Thursday. So, um, it hasn't been circulated yet, but
it was just filed yesterday. Yesterday was the due date for the financial statements. The number on the on the financial statement is six uh $6,825,000 in fund balance. It looks like it's going down each year. Don't be alarmed. What we have been doing is we have been
loaning ourselves money from our current fund to our capital account so that we uh don't incur uh larger interest payments on on debt, right? We can borrow money from ourselves much cheaper than we can borrow it from the outside. So if you look at the year-to-year
year-over-year differences from 2024 to 25, we went from 5.8 million to 7.3 million and then 25 to 26, we went 7.3 to 6.8. But in that time, the loan has also grown. So if you look at the the the bottom line numbers after the loan,
which is represented by what's called an interfund between the current fund and the general capital account, um we went from 9.4 4 million in 2024 to 9.9 million in 2025 and then to 10.2 million in 2026. So we have been seeing a steady
increase in our fund balance overall. It just doesn't appear that way on our balance sheet. U because of that loan that we have that does restrict our fund balance. Once we pay back that loan or we permanently finance our our our debt uh the fund balance will go right back to where it was. Um, and the reason why
I say that is because um, typically what we what we uh, represent our our utilization of fund balances as a percentage of the total. When you look at it as a percentage of the amount on the on the balance sheet, you'll see that it's about 39% compared to 34% utilized last year. But when you look at
it as from a p a total perspective, um, we used about 25% last year. We're using about 26% this year. So not a material change from a percentage perspective year-over-year. um you know and we're and we're utilizing what we're what we feel we can confidently replenish.
Um other than that our our budget is within the appropriation cap right now. We have had some problems in the past getting very tight with the appropriation cap. We are in good shape this year. Um and that's because a large amount of the of the uh health benefit
increase is allowed outside of cap. So um we are we are in compliance with our current budget. Excellent. Thank you. Uh any member of the Citizens Budget Committee uh wish to ask a question or make a comment?
>> I I just have a question. So Chris, what is our total surplus? >> So right now on the balance sheet, the total surplus is going to be $6.8 million, but when you add back in, we've got $3.4 million of inter funds to our
general capital account to as that loan. So the total is is 10,225. Okay. Thank you. >> Any other member of assistant budget committee? >> Tom, can I is there a >> is there an option to shop our
insurance? >> Um so, uh I'm going to put have our um administrator speak to that. >> Yes. To shop around for insurance, there are two different components. First um component is the number of employees
that we have in insurance and we have only about 45 or so and um they look at the last two years claims history. So that determines the favorability but at the same time under our various collective bargaining agreements when if
we want to go out of the state health benefit system it has to be a program that is equal to or better. So that really limits the options. We tried shopping around um a few years ago and
no one offered the burrow coverage outside of the state health benefits program. Last year a company offered benefits at about an 85 $90,000 savings, but it was a company that has just started providing insurance to
municipalities. So since they didn't have um enough of history uh it was decided not to join them because then if they go under or there are any issues then it's a lot of regulatory
bureaucratic red tape to get back on the state health benefit system. >> Okay. >> But we're still we're still looking. We're still looking. I have our risk manager shopping around looking. Every time I receive notifications that the state health benefits committee has met
with um I look at what the reports are and I share that with our risk manager in an effort to assist with the the looking for other insuranceances that are more cost effective but equal to or better than what we have in compliance with our collective bargaining
agreements. >> Okay. Thanks Al. U Chris, when when is that? >> You got to speak up. Lean forward. >> I'm sorry. Is that better? >> Yes. Excellent. >> Okay. Chris, when does the um when does
that money come back? That loan is that a short-term loan to to cover cash or >> Yeah, it's it's effectively it's effectively just a float that we use, right? So, we borrow money uh annually
to for to support our capital programs. So, um, effectively we're just borrowing $3.4 million less than what we would borrow on an annual basis. So, should we choose to clear that loan out, we can borrow 3.4 million more, but we would
incur interest on that 3.4 million. Um, which would probably be in the ballpark of $110,000 in interest, right? So, by by carrying that interf fund and restricting my balance uh my fund balance, I'm not incurring that extra $110,000 of
interest that we would have to put in the budget um each year. So, um my intention is to to do that as long as uh as long as I can get away with it uh for for cash flow. Um if I got to the point where that loan got so large that it
impacted our ability to utilize our fund balance, I would I would obviously have to pay it off. So, um it's it's really just a matter of u you know, we're only we're only collecting two or so percent in the bank and my borrowing cost is
closer to three three and a half%. So, um I get the the arbitrage of of uh of not of not going to the to the secondary market to uh to borrow money if I can borrow it for myself. >> Okay. I I I understand that. I
understand the the the the cash benefit for it, but how does it get replaced into the surplus fund is that cash flow that comes in >> once once we permanently fund it? We're we're going to have to permanently
finance our capital projects eventually, right? We're just using this as a cash flow. So once we permanently finance it, that that money will come in from an outside uh an outside uh investor and it'll be advertised and and we'll have to pay the debt down in our budget um
over the amortized schedule and and and at that point the cash will come into the account to reimburse the fund balance. >> Okay. So we're eventually going to have to borrow money to cover that I don't know $2 million. Is that the Is that the
>> Right now it's Right now it's $3.4 million. >> $3.4 million. So we're eventually going to have to pay for that. >> Yeah, that's and that's true of every capital project that we that we adopt um forever, right? So we're just using it as a float for now um to try to mitigate some of the interest expenses. We
started doing it when the interest rates started going up. Uh basically it was pretty shortly after COVID is when when I started the that the loan because it was um pretty cheap to borrow money prior to that and that period was when we had our largest capital project. So
it was a bad timing from a market perspective um to to go out to the secondary market. >> Okay. Thank you. I understand that a little bit better. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Any other member of the citizen budget committee? >> May. Yes.
>> Just real quick with Chris. So, when is it safe to say in a couple of years we're going to have to start paying for all this? I am I hearing you correctly or no? >> Um, yeah. Well, so what we what we look for is we look for a drop in our amortization schedule and we do talk
about this a little bit uh every year. So, we we should maybe go over it now. Uh, effectively what we do is when we're when we're going through our capital um planning, right? We we're looking at our projects. We're looking, you know, five years ahead, five years behind on what we've done, what we spent, what we plan
on spending. And if you look at the if you look at the the budget document, there's a whole section for debt service. It's got bond principle, bond interest, note principle, note interest. Your bonds are your long-term debt. Think of that as a mortgage um on your house. Uh and your notes are short-term
debt. So, think of that as like a bridge loan, a construction loan on your house that you're going to permanently finance when you actually get your mortgage. So those uh those short-term notes are only a year at a time. Uh we stay in short-term notes until old debt falls
off. So um once we once we fully pay off old debt, you'll see a big drop in your budget in bond principle because you'll no longer have to make those principal payments. That's when we'll sell bonds again to backfill that uh that drop with
your new debt. So that'll prevent us from having like these big, you know, big, you know, spikes in the budget because we're going up and down. So these notes are effectively interest only for the first three years. Um, and that allows us to keep our budget in control. Um, what we have in in River
Edge is we have a big drop coming in 2030. That's our next big debt service drop on bond principle. So, we'll be looking to have a a bond sale probably in 2029 where our first payment will come due in 2030. And um and that will
there's about a $460,000 drop that we're expecting at that point. So would it be safe to say in 2030 is where some of these capital projects that were, you know, gently funding or looking to fund later would be a target
year to, you know, it would open up some funds. Is that a correct statement? >> Well, they they would be permanently financed. We would have a we would have a set amortization schedule and any loan that we have from ourselves to ourselves would be paid back in full. Um, like I said, if there was a need, if we needed
access to that fund balance at any given time, I can access the market within a week or two and get that money in and repay back that loan. Um, it's there's just not there's not there's not a benefit to us to do that right now. >> No, I appreciate you taking the time to explain that. Thank you.
>> My pleasure. >> Any other member of the citizen budget committee? >> Any member of the council question or comment? I have a quick question for our borrow administrator. Equal to or better.
Does that mean that that type of offering has to be available to employees and we can make a different offering as well that they can opt for? >> If
>> what what does that mean equal? I I understand the words. >> Um >> but what does it mean effectively that we have to provide across all our employees >> an equal to or better program? Can we can we also offer a less costly program?
And if some of them opt into a less costly program, could we recognize >> maybe us recognize a savings there? >> Not the union's collective bargaining agreement. >> Yes. You have to unions collective bargaining Mike. >> Yeah. You have to negotiate that with
the unions. They have to agree to it. And if the unions don't agree to it, then you cannot do it. >> Yeah. Within their collective bargaining agreements they have that, you know, if you're going to replace the health care, you know, the program, it has to be equal to or better. Then you can't just
take away, you know, their healthare and give them. >> We'll still offer better, but we'll also offer another plan. that might be more more cost effective for the borrow and for employees and then if a lot of them opt on to it maybe
will save and they'll save >> well the state >> probably isn't the right form I don't want to spend a lot of time just a question I want to put out there >> I mean the state offers different versions of the plan so and they hold an open enrollment there's a possibility of
um providing another open a special open enrollment in April It's mandatory for the state. Municipalities can ask for it, but they haven't given the parameters on how to ask for an open enrollment. So, if I'm on direct 10 and my premiums are killing
me and I want to switch to 2035 or a high deductible or um the tiered plan, I can personally do so. So, that those options are available for employees. There are about I think six different
options. Um, and then there's Horizon's version and Etna's version. >> Okay, thank you. I'll keep trying. >> Yeah. No, so the answer to the question is yes, and it's already it's already there. It's already they have that option. 2035 is already an option that they can that they can adopt, but they
don't >> because it's um can be devastating if there is >> something. >> Yeah. No, if we could uh we we essentially need um the state of New Jersey to negotiate um because the guidelines and the statutes are very
limiting to the municipalities. Would that be fair? Um C. Um Mr. Chair, >> yes. Um there was a pending bill that would have done away with all the options right now and just offer three different plans, but that didn't make it through uh lame duck. if it the lame
duck session that ended I think January 12th if they would have adopted that um and only have three options it would be easier to shop around. >> Yes. And you have been in communication with
the union uh the two our two unions uh about this and uh so communication has been going back and forth. >> Yes. um be with the PBA and the DPW which is the DPW is under whose uh opices is it? Teamsters >> the teamsters. Yeah.
>> It's just a matter and like I said anytime I get a notification of the state health benefits committee meeting and what comes out of the meeting I share it with our risk manager in an effort to continue shopping around for the best price um plan that provides the
best coverage for our employees. And we even looked into just because this topic came up, we looked into m could we combine with another municipality because uh a big um problem for us is we have so few in the program. The programs are offered by the size of your
population. Our population is so small that we have little to no options. So we we thought about we we we tentatively looked at could we join Bergen County? Could we join up with Pamas? Could we join up with Oridel Newford? But there
are insurmountable obstacles to doing any of that. But we continue to look because we would like to save both our employees and the taxpayers if we could. All right. Uh any other member of council? Yes. Question. Uh this is a
question for Chris. Hi Chris. Um just a question about the debt. Um the overall debt. My understanding and I just want to make sure that it's my understanding is correct that our overall debt is approximately 27 million and that we're
paying about 1.8 million per year towards that overall debt. And if that's correct, my question is historically has that debt been increasing every year or are
we paying it down? And if it's increasing, what are we projecting over the next let's say 3 to 5 years in terms of that debt? And if it's decreasing, what are we projecting?
>> Well, it it it fluctuates. It fluctuates based on based on the projects that we that we um adopt and and that we move forward with. So, had we had this conversation, you know, five years ago, um the debt looks very different than it
looks today. And if you have this conversation again five years from now, the same would apply. Um if you look at our capital program for 2026, the one we're going through today, it's lower than it has been in the past because a lot of those larger projects uh have
been have now been completed. Um and um so to to to back up to answer your question, number one, yes, you're correct. We have about $27 million in total debt. Um if you look at the breakdown of that total debt, that's inclusive of things that we have already permanently financed. Um that's about $5
million. Um we have notes outstanding. That's just under $12 million. Um so that's $17 million there. And then the balance, the $10 million balance are projects that were authorized for to issue debt on that have not been issued yet. Right. And that's part of that is
that three $3.4 $4 million that were we lent to ourselves for the cash flow. And some of those projects have been authorized and not completed yet and we haven't actually um paid vendors to move forward with the projects or maybe we won't move forward with the projects. Um
and so the debt is on our books, but it has not actually been issued. So that $27 million is our total potential liability. When we look at what we're actually paying, um we're paying a bulk of of that, right? So, if you if you break down the $1.8 million
um that that you that you mentioned for a total debt, we've got $995,000 of bond principal. And so, we're paying $995,000 out of a total outstanding balance of 5,000 5,165.
Right? So, you can see that our bond principal balance is starting to drop a little bit. That's because it's it's going to be there's a one issue that's going to be fully paid off in in 2030. So, we're getting towards the end of that and then we'll we'll be looking to permanently finance new debt subject to
subject to the interest rates at that time. Um the you're you're never really going to be in a situation where you fully pay off your debt, right? You've got infrastructure that you have to maintain. Um, it's also a bit of a phil philosophical question because do you
want to uh charge your residents today for projects that are going to last 15 20 years, right? Or do you want to have the residents of the next 15 20 years pay off those projects. Um, a lot of towns have different perspectives on that. Uh, it's, you know, it's up to the governing body, but we we do have a debt
plan. Um, just for reference as well, um, when you look at that $27 million, there is a limitation on the total debt that that a municipality is allowed to authorize, it's three and a half% of the equalized value of the real property in
the municipality. Um, just for reference quick numbers, that number for River Edge is about $2.5 billion, right? We're only at a little over 1% just barely over 1% in total debt up of of an allowable three and a half
percent. Right? So we're not even close. We're actually very low relative to some of our peers in total debt um authorized and total debt issued. Um and we we aggressively pay off that debt, right?
So so we we we are paying it u back um aggressively. We fund an additional $175,000 on top of our requirement um to be able to get to the point in 2030 where uh our expected payments will be larger than
they are today, but we won't we won't feel a budget impact because we we're planning for it. So there's a lot there's a lot that goes into the debt. Um we do have I have lots of spreadsheets and lots of documents and uh you know we can certainly talk more about it offline. Uh that's a pretty
high level overview, but um yeah, it's I mean it's something that we do review regularly, not not just annually. >> Yeah, I I definitely appreciate that and I definitely do not want to get into the weeds on this. So the last question I
have is just a you know 30,000 foot high question is the this overall debt figure. I understand that it represents different things and some of it some of it hasn't even been uh alloc not allocated applied yet but overall the
$27 million debt is is has that number been increasing over the last let's say three years or has it been decreasing? >> That number has been increasing because because the size of the projects that we've had over the last three years. Um,
but if you look at this year, you know, we're looking to authorize based on the the the document in front of you and and plus the we just reduced it by $170,000. Um, we're authorizing about one 1 million8 in debt this year after you
take into consideration the grants and the down payment requirement. Um, which is pretty close to what we're paying, right? So, um, you're you're you're not increasing it substantially year-over-year in years where you don't have oneoff large projects, right?
Burrow Hall was a large project. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That's it. >> Cool. Anyone else? All right. Uh, thank you, Chris. We appreciate that. I'm sure we're going to be coming back to you many, many times today. Um, finance chair and council
president, um, do you want to just give a brief summary of what the finance committee has been do over the last couple months in preparation for this meeting? And especially if you could highlight that, uh, the finance committee was able to, I believe, reduce
uh, the increase from five and a half to about four and a half. >> Okay, mayor, if I must. Um, >> you must. >> I know there's a lot of words going on. Um so uh I just want to thank the um our CFO Chris, our uh burough administrator
Elizabeth, um uh councilwoman Malari, and council men Glass for being part of uh many many discussions regarding the budget. Um uh I think that again this year we had to do a needs basis budget
as opposed to a wants and we tried very hard to do that. uh we did not have much and Chris correct me if I'm wrong. We did not have much wiggle room in order to really cut much out of the budget and but we tried to do the best we could and
we did uh we went from 5.76 I think it was to 4.47 247. Um we managed to do that um uh in in our discussions and just again thanks thanks to uh their efforts and time in in this
project. >> All right. And uh I certainly told the department heads and uh and um who who looked carefully at their budgets. uh as we can see or we've already had a representation from uh Chief Sanders
where uh he needed some changes and he didn't want to add so he took away from from other areas and and it's that sort of frugality that we have been forced into over the last couple years due to uncontrollable outside increases most
notably uh health benefits and uh Bergen County Utility Authority which is our sewage. Um most I like to at this time point out to the public we spent I think now about 1.2 million on sewage at this point I >> believe. So
>> so um and when I say that people don't always get it. So you know then I try to point out that that we're talking about every time you flush your toilet it has to be processed. It has to be handled. And um so of a 22 million $22.5 million
budget which we only have to tax for 17.5 million uh 1.1 1.2 is just sewage. So um so we really are nuts and bolts here and we have run a very frugal
budget uh for the last uh 14 or 15 years and we have a more conservative budget policy than other municipalities and that gives us the flexibility when we need it to borrow from ourselves and
that keeps the overall tax rate down um compared to other municipalities. Um, so I just like to thank everyone for their work, not just those present here today, but citizen budget committees over the last 15 years, as well as council
members over the last 15 years, as well as all of our department heads and our administrative staff. So, uh, thank you to that. Okay. Um, without objection, we'll move back to departments. Is there, uh, any objection? Chief Walker, you're up.
>> Yes. Good morning, everyone. We'll start off with the uh the capital request uh justifications. So um you know the first few items are are annual request. The vehicle replacement is for one um radio car that that we call a
line car. Um and that's that's um you know in the past we've asked for two cars a year. Okay. >> Um and we're able to do one right now. a large part of that I would thank uh the DPW Jason and uh our mechanic do a great job
keeping our cars up to speed, building our cars, maintaining them. So uh we're in a pretty good place as far as um not needing more than than this one request. Um that request basically um for those who aren't aware the way we work it is
we have four line cars that work around the clock um non-stop those cars go and they have a a life expectancy of about you know 3 years four years and then they they'll get moved down to uh the
what we call the five and six spot which are backup cars. Um and uh the need to replace them is obviously there otherwise they get too old and the what you don't want to do is is not not have a replacement program and then all of a
sudden you know and I've seen this in my long time being here all of a sudden you need you know three or four cars in a year. So, that's that's a replacement for one of the vehicles. And that car, um, we're going to talk about something called the traffic trust. That car, uh,
my understanding, and we've had this had discussion last year with Chris, is because it's a line car, it's not a traffic car, um, that it has to be, uh, purchased outside of that traffic trust. The traffic trust for those of you who may not be aware or new is a um is a
trust is a fund that was set up by uh the CFO and and towns uh you know do this the it's the money that we make from all the traffic details that these offices are on and and as everyone in town knows the last few years I say that with a chuckle because there's a lot of
traffic details a lot of inconvenience to residents but we also know that it's for the good of uh infrastructure and the gas lines being replaced But at any rate, we make money on our officers being out there with these radio cars. All right. So, but that car again needs
to be that's a radio that's a radio car that drives around the clock. It's not a traffic car. All right. The ballistic vest is something that we uh you know is our vest replacement program. We have to replace vest. They have a 5-year life expectancy. Um and it also helps with
our any new officers that we have. That's a $3,500. Um, and that that's self-explanatory, but that's not the tough book is the uh the computer that goes into the new radio car and that's the same thing. Those have a five about a fiveyear life
expectancy and um basically we build a new car, we put a new computer in it and that computer moves down to that five and six spot and by then it's several years old and then after that five and six spot it just goes to sleep. It's it's exhausted. All right. Um the
traffic cones um that's an increase uh as you see, you know, a bit of an increase there. That's again because of all the traffic details that we have. Um our cones and stuff are getting beat up. Um Sergeant Diamond does a great job with our traffic program and keep maintaining
this equipment, making sure it's out there, shopping around, um you know, getting what we need. that item that 14,000 that can be taken out of the traffic trust. We did it last year and uh you know I'm sure when I'm done with
this we can defer to Chris for further explanation on how that works. But basically that traffic trust that I spoke about because these cones are specifically used for traffic. We're able to take money from there and it doesn't affect um the capital right um
the defiills. Let's see the tough book. Oh, the tough book also because because the tough book looks up information about traffic though it's in the radio the line car it can be used by the traffic officers because they could they could be calling
to that car. Basically, we're we're we're showing hey that computer that could be used by the traffic officers if they radio that officer. So, we're able to push that over to that traffic trust also. So that's 6,000 for the tough book, 14,000 for the cones can come out
of that traffic trust. Defi, our defibrillators, everybody knows where a defiill is. I I'm I'm quite sure um our defibrillators have come to the end of their life. We're not able to renew the service contract at the end of this year. So we just we need to replace the defibrills.
All right. Um that is that is the capital request with this one um one rather large but something that I want to point out that um it this is something that could come under cap but uh you know I have a plan
with this I discussed it with Chris and that is that our bodywn cameras that the officers wear you know that are mandated by the state I think everybody knows that was a state mandate you know five six years ago go. Um they're coming to the end of their life expectancy. Now,
that is a huge cost. Okay. Um the state, you know, as the state does, they mandate something with this. They did cover the initial cost, but there's really not nothing there to be found. We do we did apply for a small grant. We're going to see what happens with that. All
right. But, um we're talking around $400,000 replacement. So, this this could be, you know, this would be a cap request if I was to put it in here this year. Um, I'm stretching it to go to next year, but um, in talk again talking
to Chris because all the officers wear these, including those traffic officers and, uh, the the work that my officers have done in looking at these cameras and the different um, purchasing um, methods or different contracts that
you can get, what we're able to do is uh, purchase the necessary equipment at about $90,000 a year. Um, but that 90,000 again looks like we can take it out of the traffic trust, which is huge.
Which is huge. Um, because again, it wouldn't be a cap. It's not in the budget. It's coming out of the money that we're making each year because we we are we still have a couple of years at least out with PSEG and that fund gets um brings in quite a bit of money. So, it's
an opportunity to use that and to replace these um body warn cameras under state contracts. Obviously, we did we do all our homework on that and um without it without us having to make this big um cap request. All right. So, that's not
on there and that's that's just something that I'm making you aware of. And I think that um again, we could have more discussion about specifically what that's about when when uh when the council uh would like to. Um but I just want to make you aware that that is that
is a big item and that's going to be uh something that we're going to need to address. Um those are those are the cap requests. Are there any questions on the cap request? So, uh, we go to citizen budget committee members first. Are there questions or comments from citizen
budget committee members? >> Chief, good morning. I just have a quick question. That traffic trust, do you I know I know we're dipping into it and it's great that we can and I appreciate you having that trust fund. Do you see that like, you know, are we
like going to blow through that in the next year or two? I don't I don't see Well, listen, it depends on what we we purchase out of it, but um you know, Chris would have the numbers on it. The numbers that I see on it, I think it's I think it's healthy right now. And I think even if
PSCG is gone, >> we're certainly going to make enough to say cover these cameras each year. So, so I'm not worried that uh if you know two within the next two years, we're going to substantially add to that trust. But let's say PSENG is done in
two, three years, we're we're certainly going to make 90 at least $90,000. We're going to make more than that on average without any major projects. >> Right. Right. No, I just think it's great that we'd be able to take, you know, the traffic cones, the tough book, and maybe the cameras out of that trust
fund and, you know, you're okay with it. So, um, that's a huge impact on the capital. No, appreciate that. Thank you. Nice job. >> Thank you. Uh Al >> Al, you got to speak to the mic.
>> The uh the defibrillators, is there any way to kind of phase those in over the over a few years as opposed to buying them all at the same time? And how many are you buying? We we buy
we buy them all at once out because they you know you you get a contract and the contract is a maintenance contract that goes with it and you're with a company and use a state bid. So it's not really something where you can have you don't want different ones and then they're you know they're they're literally
different. So the officers are using different ones >> and then you're you know every year you're trying to keep what's what's new, what's old, what's working. We buy them. We buy the number that we need and then we use them to the end of their like ours ours are done as far as the
maintenance contract. All right. We p we pushed them as far as we could. Um and and uh it's just time to replace them. And generally we've always done it all together in a bulk and um I think um we
have I'm going to say six six of those. >> Okay. So each carries one and then you have a couple. >> Yeah. Not not every car in the fleet certainly, but the line cars and then we'll have one at headquarters and one and one other car. I I believe that's could be off by one or two. One maybe,
but that's basically what we have. >> Okay. So the 15,000 is covering the the six or so >> defiills that you have. >> Yes. Yes. >> All right. And the the trust is the money that comes in from PS&J.
>> Yes. So what happens is the town charges for the officer and the radio car. Okay, an hourly rate, but it's it's more than we pay the officer. All right. So, um that's how we make money. That's how we
make money. Now, legally, and you know, Chris could um you know, um support me on this, I think, is legally that money is to be put in a trust called a traffic trust, but it has to be used for things that support that traffic cuz that's why
we charged them for it, right? So, we can't take that and, you know, renovate a baseball field because because we said, "Hey, we have to charge you extra because we got to maintain our cars and maintain the cones and maintain everything that has to do with the traffic." And as we know of those little
tracks cars that are driving around, um, we put together a great program, um, you know, with the with the again with the help and the support of Jason from the DPW. Um, so we're going to be in a place where we're not going to worry about our traffic cars. They're small. They're more gas efficient. They're new. You'll
see we have some of those old ones running around still, right? And people say, "We got a lot of cars. We discussed this last year." But the reason why we're keeping anything that rolls right now because every one of those cars that goes out is making money, right? When PSEG is done, you're going to see the
fleet deplete. Those old cars, the wheels are just going to basically fall off and we're just going to send them on their way. But we keep them because DPW is good enough to be able to make them still roll out and then and then we make money on them. Once they're gone, we'll be in a a very nice place because of the
program that we put in place by purchasing those tracks cars with the um with the trust fund money. >> Okay. The $97,000 that you have in for the vehicle replacement, that's one patrol car. >> That's 87,000. That's one That's one
Tahoe. But the Tahoe itself is is not 87,000. It's all the equipment that goes into >> We have to build it, right? Um, you know, thanks to the DPW again, we we will save money on that. We have to build that car. We have to get all the equipment, all the lights, all the, you
know, uh, the cages. Um, it it has to have the our print put on it, right? All that kind of stuff is is put into the car. Okay. You're I don't know. This is the overview. can't hear you out. Sorry.
>> I'm sorry. The um I'm looking at the the page that's the uh 2026 general capital uh ordinance summary and it has all the departments on it and that has 97,000 for a vehicle.
And then I looked underneath that and I saw a five-year plan and 20 26 is 97,000 but 27 through 30 is 87. Is there >> I'm going to say that's probably a
misprint because the one the one I have in front of me is 87. So So I always put in right for the next 5 years what the cost of the car is this year, you know, but if it goes up next year, then I have to increase it next year. I'd love for it to go down, but I think we'd all be dreaming to see that. But
>> okay, so the 87 is going down is going up to the projections out for the next four years is 97,000. >> No. Again, my sheet that I have in front of me is 87,000 from 26 to 30. Will it go up? Al probably will, but right now
to replace a line radio car Tahoe and equip it with everything is 87,000. >> Okay. This may be more of a question for Chris then. >> So, okay. >> So, Chris, would you clarify for us at this point? Um, the book in front of the most of the council says uh
>> 97 >> says 97 for 26, 87 for 27, 28. Um, is the which is currently in the budget? 97 or 87? >> 90 97 is in is is what we're looking at
for 2026. the the future the the future years are um effectively just a plan. Um you know, we we'll we'll paste them into the budget. You'll see them from sheets 40 to 44 at the very back of your budget as a multi-year plan, but the current
year plan the current year is what you're actually going to be paying for. >> And and Chris, it is 97 or it is 87. >> It's 97. >> Yeah, but why why is it 87? >> Well, we're going to get that. I believe Jason will clarify for that. That's what
I'm being told by the administrator. >> Yeah. So, this year, Mike, we we talked for this year, it the radio car will have to be sent out because of all the moving parts I have at the DPW with people retiring and everything going on
um for this year until I can figure out how or get another mechanic um and all that. So, we'd have to send this the radio car out for this year. And then we talked about bringing them back next year when I solidify that position um
back up because I have five retirements um ready to be had and that's going to turn into a uh time and needs thing with everything else that's going on until I can hire um the prop appropriate staff.
>> All right, that's as much as that was briefly spoken about, Jason. And um I didn't know you were concrete on that. Um it's probably a discussion that maybe we need to have and we can go back to we can bring it back to the council cuz there there are some uh questions that I have with that.
>> That's okay. But I would leave that in. That's why that was in 97 and the rest of them were 87 back down. That was because of this year. >> Okay. Uh Al, does that answer your question? >> Yeah, I Yeah, I'm I guess I'm okay. That's fine. Any other member of the
citizens budget committee question or comment? Member of the council question or comment. All right, chief. Uh, operating budget. >> Sure. So, the operating budget um, you know, was able to bring it down a
few thousand um, from the year past. However, there is there's always >> could you give us a page number if you have it? >> So, we start on page 45. Okay. But um I don't need to make any changes to my my
uh what you have in front of you. I just like to give some explanations and there are a couple things that aren't in there that need to be addressed. All right, >> chief. >> Okay. So, in my justification page, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Um you know, the maintenance contracts
go up every year. Um and they went up more than more than is indicated, but we're we're always on top of the contracts. We're always on top of the companies to try and get the best deals that we can. If we can move to another company, we will. I have no loyalty to any companies. Um, but we need we need
to get um the best deal that we can and the service that we can. So, uh there there's an increase there. You can see uh some of it has to do because we did move a line um from page 52. We took a line from there and I
put it in the contracts. And over the years, I've tightened up the budget to reflect where things need to be. When I first took it over, we were kind of a mess with the contracts. And that's why, if you look at my first year with the budget, the contracts jumped quite a bit, but the operating budget, but but the other areas, the operating budget,
um, the lines went down because it's about to me, I need all my contracts together so we can see exactly what they cost and they're all on one page. So that's part partly why uh that you'll see that 3,000 or so moved over from um one line to another. Um the other you
know the decreases or uniforms for for uh the SEO2s and the SLE1's unfortunately that as much as that was a very good program and I do really believe we need to to uh get it back on track at some point but we we had to freeze that program. So um I took away
the money that would have been used for that program. Same thing with the reserves. I have three reserves. Um, and that's all I have. And, um, they don't cost as much anymore. Um, you know, they're old-timers and they have their uniforms. I can get them whatever they need. So, I took a reduction of that.
The wellness program is is simply because I have a hard number on that and, um, I I can decrease it by 1,000. All right. So, so that's the, you know, any line items I'll take questions on and anything there. But the the two things that I need to point out are the
burrowwide cameras that we have. All right. Um, we have somewhere in the area of 50 cameras. All right. Um, that is something that is used by all the departments. Well, except for the DPW. They have their own. Um, but we're talking the Burough Hall, the PD, the library, the parks, certain areas of
town. Um, the the maintenance contract for that is up. All right. And that's a $9,000 ticket. All right. Um, the reason why I didn't put it in my contracts is because, um, this is a burrowwide item,
right? Uh, I have no problem to put it in the contracts, but I think it deserves that it needs to be pointed out if that's the case. If the if the council um, says, "Hey, you know what? It's it's all it's all semantics, right? Whether the money comes over here, over here, and you put it in my contract
line, I respect I'll be paying out of out of my contract line the contract for all the cameras. No issues with that. We oversee them all. We maintain them. We monitor them. Obviously, that's fine. Um, but the other thought was to do like we do with our phone bill. And I ran
this by Chris and it's my understanding that it is feasible that we have a separate line that covers a burrowwide item such as this uh these these cameras. All right. So, that's that's just putting that out there. I felt that it should be, you know, a decision
rather than me just putting 9,000 on my contracts. Again, they would make my my budget jump 9,000. But by this explanation, you would see like, hey, this is the reason why the that that line the contracts went up. All right. So, that's that's the uh one item. The
other item is um the crossing guards. We're we're having a real tough time with crossing guards um maintaining, you know, having enough numbers. Um, we've been able to pull it off and uh use that. We were using our CLO2, but we don't have them anymore. Um, and we we
use officers um that are working when we can, but we're getting to a point where we can't get we're not getting the numbers that we need coming in. And when we have a couple down, we use our our extras and now all our extras are used. And if our extras are used and we're
short shifted, I actually have to bring an officer in. So, for example, this year, um $1,900 in in overtime for an officer to cover crossing. All right, that can get scary if that's maintained. All right, so I believe that if we can
bring up the rate of the crossing guards to be more competitive with the area, um that we can that we can draw more in. And that being said, um our our current starting rate for a crossing guard is $19.97
and the top rate is 2562 and it has three steps in between. Okay. Um what I'd like to do is bring the starting rate what I call the training phase from 1997 to $20 an hour. Remove
the middle steps. So once they're trained, they go from $20 an hour to the top rate. And I would like to make that rate go from 2562 to 26. All right. So instead of those steps in between, we go from 20 to 25.
Um, with that, I did I had some discussion with Chris um who, you know, always does a great job and and getting back to me and crunching the numbers. this is not a substantial um impact on on the on the line that we have for
these guys. In fact, it sounds as if we might be able to pull it off just by what we have in place. But I wanted to put that out there um because if if I have to uh bring in when I was a young officer, I remember being brought in to cover crossing guards and you know it's
it's kind of head scratching because you're putting a cop out there do crossing guards and he's getting paid at least eight hours overtime. All right. So, I don't want to be there because that that'll just that'll go right past any any wage increase that we're looking at then. So, that that uh that is the
other thing that's not in the budget. Otherwise, um that's the budget, guys. If you guys have uh questions, um I'm happy to have uh been able to bring it down a little bit, but bringing it down a little bit, of course, the the curveball is uh you know, we got to contend with those cameras.
>> Chief, I I wanted to ask a few questions before I go to the Citizens Budget Committee. Um when you um when dealing with our crossing guards, are they saying that it is uh what they're being paid that's uh an obstacle for them to
get uh to stay or are you hearing when people are applying that that's the problem? How are um what are you hearing? >> Right. So the ones we have are are aces but but they're you know hey these are all retired people and you got to love them because they're out there in all types of weather, right? and they're
here, but they'll take a fall or they'll they'll just get sick and then we go through we deplete our reserve and our reserve there's only a couple of them, right? Um and then and then we don't have anybody but we we constantly have ads out and what they do is listen some of them are loyal to their town which is
great but some of them will shop around. So if New Milford's, you know, giving you 28 or 30 an hour, you know, then hey, I'll go over there, you know. I even talk with Chiefs about sharing our extras, you know, and that's still something that I'm trying to to get out there. Um, you know, cuz if they're
extras available today from Milford or let's use them. I'm working on that. Um, but but again, if your rates not competitive, then as much as it's 25 cents or a dollar, hey, especially that generation, right? They they quarter to them is huge. Right. Um, so that that's
where it is. It's not so much that they're here and they're like, "Ah, I'm going to go to Oriel now because they make more." They don't really leave us to do that. We just can't get them. And when we once we do get them, you know, uh, just by the nature of of uh, you know, that that who they are and their
age and this and what they're doing, they're putting themselves out there. Um, you know, we have three or four down right now, you know, that are uh no no um nothing major, but um you know, they're going to if they're out for a little bit and I have three or four out, that's that's big. That's a problem. So,
we need to build our reserve tank up. We need to uh show the area, hey, River Edge is competitive and um and you know, move forward from there. >> So, Chief, you're uh just one second. I just want clarification. Chief, you're
saying uh training at 20 and uh full-time as a single rate of is it 25 or 26? >> 26. >> 26. And I'm going to go to the administrator in a second. Um Chris, in a moment uh I'm going to ask you to uh after the administrator to just comment
on the impact on the budget if uh if we adopt if if we if the uh committee and the council wishes to comm uh commit to the chief's recommendation so that that information is available uh today if possible. Go ahead. >> Yes. I just want to add another layer to
this. If somebody applies to be a crossing guard and they do well in the interview, the um municipal joint insurance fund requires that they take a vision and hearing test and if they fail the test then they can't be hired. >> Oh, okay.
>> And that with that just because thank you Lizette for saying that. Um we've had we have lost a couple because we have to do that testing and again you know like I used to not wear these glasses right so they get older um and and they're hearing in their eyes and
let me tell you the other thing that's happened with them they they go to that test and the next thing you know they're wearing hearing aids so they get glasses which is awesome because they you know they help them you know because they want to come back you got to love them. >> All right. Uh Chris, are are you prepared to uh talk on this uh at this
point or would you um can you give us a ballpark of the impact? >> Yeah, can I can absolutely talk about it. Um and actually as as I'm as I'm looking at it, I realize that there's a there's there's two numbers that are switched on your So on page 45,
um your dispatcher number says 276,000. You can see that that's not in line with what what it was in the past. That number is switched with the crossing guards below it. Um, I just fixed it on my end, but your document still has them switched. So, the 276 is actually crossing guards and the 149 A14 below it
is actually for the dispatchers. So, when we look at the 276 total >> Oh, no. Grace, I'm sorry. So, 006 is supposed to be crossing cars and 007 is supposed to be >> No, it's the it's they're the correct lines. If you look at the history, the
history is all correct as you know as dispatches. But I I put the 276 on the long line. It should have been on 276 should be on 007 and 149,000 should be on 006. >> Thank you.
Um, so using that $276,000 number, if you just divide that by $26, let's operate under the assumption that we're going to have all of our all of our crossing guards getting paid 26 and the training is not maybe long enough where it will be a material difference.
Um, that would be about 10,600 hours. Um, we paid about 9,800 hours last year. I'm not 100% sure how many uh shifts have to be covered with patrolman. Um but using that those figures we you know
we should be able to accommodate that in this budget because I budget based on the highest number anyway. It's the you know so the highest dollar amount isn't changing materially from you know 25 and change to 26. >> So would you say that it's budget
neutral? >> Yeah we we wouldn't have to make any change to the draft that we have. >> Okay. So, um before we go into discussion, um madame administrator, um if we uh if we is this I assume would have to be something
we'd have to decide during a council meeting. Yes, the salary ordinance needs to be changed and um by eliminating the steps and then um all the people all the crossing guards who that are in step
that would move there would be a resolution updating their salary. >> So it would be an ordinance change and then a resolution. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, uh, we're going to go to questions in a minute, but what the council needs to consider is at the end I'm going to ask council if they're
interested in, um, having that, uh, ordinance and resolution drafted for consideration at the next council meeting. Um, and the council can choose to say at, uh, after our question and answer period, um, yes or no, we'd like
to think about this a little bit longer. Uh, but it seems since it's budget neutral that it's to me it seems to be a no-brainer. Uh, we should go with the chief's recommendation. Uh, but let's return to our process. Uh, are there any members of the citizen budget committee
who have a question or a comment? >> Uh, Chief uh, Ky. >> Yeah. Uh I just um Chief Walker is that that $20 and $26 increase is that enough to attract people. So So I think for the
time being it is right and um you know they they will get that you know generally that 3% increase but it's something that we we monitor because inevitably what happens right you know I joke with the chiefs around and and we try to keep it quiet but you know they'll be like hey what' you do jump to 26? Now I got to jump to 27. you know,
it's it's um it's just what happens. Um so I think I think that's going to be a good number. I think what'll happen too or guards will talk about it and they have their little, you know, their little group or connections and they'll be like, "Hey, when you come to River Edge, they're going to start you at at 20, but as soon as you get trained,
you're going to jump to 26. You know, you get past those steps." So I think just by eliminating the steps and bringing it up 40 cents, >> it's enough for us to get attention. And once we get them again, they generally they don't leave. It's getting them and then keeping them healthy. >> Right. Right. Okay. And you know, and
just, you know, I think this is something that the council should strongly consider, you know, having, you know, I listen to the police department during the day and you know, when you hear a patrol officer calling out on covering a crossing, you got to remember, and chief, I don't want to speak for you, but that's one less
officer that's available for an emergency in town, especially right at the height of drop off and pickup. So, it's important these crossing guards. It's some something to keep. Thank you for pointing that out. Uh, Greg. Um, but specifically about that, what you need to understand is when the officer's on
that crossing, he cannot leave that crossing. He can't leave that crossing for, you know, somebody having a heart attack. All right? Cuz you cannot risk a child getting hit by a car. All right? So, so he's locked up there for that, you know, that time period. So, it's
it's a very serious, even though simple as it is, it's a very serious um post. clarification. >> Clarification from our administrator. >> Yes, we wouldn't have to change the ordinance. I just pulled it up and it maxes out at $27. So, it would just be a
resolution with the employees and their corresponding rate. >> All right. So um just so we don't waste not waste but just so we don't have redundant comments is the council strawboat is the council interested in considering this at the next council
meeting >> yes >> yes yes >> is there any member of council not will interested in considering this or wishes for more time to uh have to evaluate this >> hearing none I'm going to uh assume I'm going to declare that this uh is the
will of the council and madam administrator will you prepare a resolution So that uh if any member of the citizen budget committee or the count council during uh in the next five minutes need not comment on whether we should do it or not because we are going to do it.
Any other question other than this from a member of the citizen budget committee or comment Chris go ahead >> yeah just a a quick question because I'll I'll be putting the resolution together for the salary resolution. Is it going to be effective, you know,
April 1, or are we looking to >> Well, let me ask you this. Is it budget neutral if it's effective April April 1? >> It's it's it'll be budget neutral either way. Uh it's just >> and I think for payrolls purposes, April
1st is something you can um wouldn't be too burdensome for you to arrange. >> No, that that would be easy for us. And chief uh April 1st is that something that you find acceptable? >> Absolutely. >> Then it would be April 1st unless there
is objection from the council. Is there objection? Hearing none. It is so approved. Any other member from the budget committee who would like to offer a comment other than the discussion we've just had. Mr. uh Joe
was going to say go other people's last days. Uh, Chief, I was just wondering I was just wondering about uh line item four, citizens part-time. I see that it was reduced by over 90% that line item. Uh,
could I just uh get some clarification on that? >> I'm not sure. >> That's that's the legal program that we're that we're not >> Oh, yes. I'm sorry. You that that's where you had it under. You had it under civilian. Okay. So, so we had a CEO too, a special law enforcement officer too.
Um, and unfortunately um the the council decided to uh eliminate that program right now. Um so that's the decrease right there. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other members of the citizen budget committee? Seeing none, any member of council
question or comment? >> Yes, mayor. I have to hi chief. um on uh line 191 which says e tickets for my knowledge uh e ticket is a cop ticket and a citation right?
>> Yes. >> This is page 50 line uh line item 191. >> So cificate or a citation but as per my knowledge is something that the recipient pays us pays you pays the
police department. So why is there um increase from past 2021 to now a substantial increase now? >> Great. That's a that I'm glad you point that out because that is a good thing. If that that's the money that we pay to
process the tickets. So we don't know. We do it quarterly. So the higher that number is it means the more my officers are writing tickets. And I got to love that. So we we are more than making that money back in the tickets, but you have to pay to process the tickets. So that
comes out of my line and then the money for the tickets goes through the courts, right? So the higher that number is, it just means we're writing more tickets. >> You have another question, council. >> Yeah. Uh on the same page on the wellness program, the line 200, this is
yearly. Yes, that's the wellness program that we started, you know, two years ago. Um, and that is, uh, for those who aren't aware, but that's every, uh, every officer and my, uh, full-time dispatch, my two civilians, um, go to see a
therapist. Um, we do that once a year. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Any other questions, C? >> Thank you, Chief. >> Anybody else? >> I do. >> Lisa, go ahead. >> Hi, Chief Walker. >> Hey, Lisa. How are you? >> Good. Good. Uh two questions on the uh maintenance contracts obviously pa sorry
page 47 line item 105 >> please be gentle guys it's early >> um so you you expressed that the increase includes the oldtown cameras excluding the DPW >> no
>> for the my edification and the the the citizens edification when you mean contracts without going into the wits of it how many contracts are we talking about and what are they high level? >> So, so we have about 20ome contracts. So, you know, BA it's almost everything
we have as a contract, right? So, our software system is a contract, our computers are contract, our fingerprint machines are contracts. >> Um the the car the cameras on the car is a contract, the body warn cameras are contract, the defiills are contract. I can go on and on. There's there's like
28 different contracts that and if you the contracts obviously take care of them and we do utilize it sometimes, you know, the majority of it we don't to be honest with you. It's an insurance, right? >> Right. >> It's an insurance, but it also um much of it is updates. So, we need the
software updates to make things run every year. And um and listen, they're they make a lot of money. I I always tell people if your kids can get a a government contract, they should, you know, go in that field because um I look at them and you you're just, you know,
all the chiefs talk about it and um and I think we do a good job here because like I said, I don't have a loyalty to any of them. Um you know, as far as who can whoever gives us the best rate and as long as they cover what we need, we'll shift away and we've done that and um that's the best that we can do with
it. So, um, you're seeing the increase there, though, is not the 9,000. Remember, that's something that we need to address. We would add 9,000 more to that if I do take the cameras on on that line. Otherwise, um, the other suggestion is, like I said, to to create
a new line, a burrow wide line, so to speak, that um that Chris was um said is feasible. All right. Um the maintenance contracts you see the the increase on here has to do with um I moved the line from um if you look at page 52
I moved um the reverse 911 and the 911 calls it was $3,000 there that I just moved over and we also were able to get a move a decrease there and the reason why I moved it is because it's contract >> so I like it you know again so when I look at my contracts everything's there everything's in one line and um and
that's why if you look at it historically If you look all the way back to when I started, you're going to see the maintenance contracts went up, you know, a lot. And that's because they were all over the place >> um throughout the throughout the um budget. So now they're all tidied up in one spot. And certainly there were
increases. You know, I have to tell you when I started um because I was able to look back at it as chief and I think we had like four contracts. That was a long time ago, but you know, um it's it's the way of business now. There's just contracts for everything,
>> right? Thank you for that. Uh, one other question on uh page 46, line item 013. I see that the overtime increased just a little bit, but could you speak to that please? >> Which line is that?
>> Uh, ends on 013 page 47 46. >> Over time, >> right? So that that my understanding in discussing that with Chris is that that's uh Chris Chris makes it safe so to speak because if you look back at
what we actually did um we're we're in the ballpark over the last three years. I mean last year we went down, this year we went up a little you know and that and that is uh an increase is just sometimes it's just what happens with the officers. If I get an officer that's out for an extended period of time um
you know or something like that then it's going to be overtime. I have a major incident, there's going to be an overtime spike, but um you know, I don't expect to get to 350 by any means. In fact, I I always look to push the overtime down. Um I got crushed in in
February with sick time and uh you know, that happens. So, I'm concerned about the the start off of the year, but um I'm something I keep an eye on, you know, every week. I I uh update my report on overtime to see where it's being spent. Um, we do have an officer
that right now for so for that increase that you see for 25. I have an officer that's in the military and he got called to the military. All right. And um he's not on the road. So I have to replace him every now and then. Not all the time, but every now and then. So that's
that's an increase in uh that's going to be an increase in overtime. you know, we know we support our troops and um we all know that in hiring the couple officers that might be involved in that and uh God bless him because I he just got deployed overseas. Um and we won't see him until next May.
>> Wow. Thank you for that. Uh Chief, thank you. >> Sure. Question. >> We have a member of council. >> All right. Uh Chief, uh thank you. >> May I have one? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Say again. Yep. Put the
9,000 camera back. >> Thank you. Lette >> Chris create a line in another account or could >> create uh Chris um as our CFO, do you recommend that we create a new line or put it in an existing line?
>> I I mean it's it's probably easier to keep it in the in an existing line. Um it would just be a new line item on on the document similar to what we did with um like public information which is you know kind of centralized. everything's in one spot. I wouldn't even be opposed
to putting in public information um uh in that line item. So whether it's, you know, police or or public information, it's it's more of a question of where where you want to see it um from a reporting perspective. Um if you feel like the police is responsible for it, let's leave it in the police budget. If
you feel like it's more of a general um town expense, we can we can put it in public information or we can even create its own its own account for cameras. Sure. Lizette, before I go back to chief, do you have a preference where it should go? >> Um, well, if it goes into the public
information line, then this is just internal, but the chief would need to have access to that account to pay those bills. >> So, would it be better if it stayed somewhere inside the chief's already existing budget instead of creating a new access? Which is easier? Which is
what is more efficient? >> Access Chris could do in literally a minute. Huh. Then chief, are you okay with it going into public information line? >> Sure. It's, you know, again, I I could yield to uh to Chris as the guy that's got to to work with the numbers and
where the lines they come from. My my whole point of it was just to point out that hey, isn't an expense and if it is in my line, you know, I just didn't want to get beat up. Um that my line went up nine grand. Again, we're paying for it one way or another, but um I'm fine either way,
>> Chris. Um, so I'm going to ask uh if the council objects, if not, then we're going to make it so moved. Do you have any comment before I ask the council? >> Nope. I will set up a a new sub account under public information. Uh, if if that's the desire of the council.
>> Does the council have objection? Is there objection? >> No. >> Hearing none. It is so moved. >> Thank you, Chris. >> Thank you, Chief. Anything else, Chief, before we let you go? >> Mayor, can I ask one more question, please? >> Sure. Um, Chief, this is on page 46 and
47. Um, I did ask this last year, too. I'm still ask because I'm I'm too much of off paper person. Um, this is for uh line item 29, 23, 36, and 127.
This is all uh under office supplies and stationary. When you total, it's almost $8,9,000. Is that is that all similar but it has been broken down? Is that is that something that we should go over and
over uh the years? I know we need a lot of paper but can we can can there be a cut in the amount of paper and the supplies we use? >> You know they're so they're they're broken up specifically, right? Um you know and I think that was done years ago
just to just to be specific. But, you know, I think honestly I think we do a good job with with our our office um supplies and keeping it down to what we have. It's not it's not just paper, you know, it's it's um it's a lot of the uh
the print stuff that comes from the computers. It's a it's the um the stuff that the officers use in the radio car sometimes. It's bags. It's different things that um we use overall. And um you know in you know when I look at the
budget overall guys the if once you take away the contracts it doesn't really take that much you take away the contracts and the salaries right it doesn't really take that much to run the police department all the everything that's there is probably around I think it's around 90,000 to all those
computers all that stuff that we purchase all those things once you get away from you know uh the contracts and the salaries um that's that's not that much when you look at all the things We do. So, um I don't think uh you know when I look in a supply closet for example and I look at you know you're
talking about all our first aid equipment right all that stuff that gets put in the cars there's it's not like we're the closets are bursting we keep what we need and we stay on top of it and it's not like we take the money and uh and squander on anything else. So, no, I think that those numbers are um
are accurate and um and they are like I I say we try to stay on top of it. If again, I've lowered the budget, you know, I lower the budget, but something else goes makes it go up. The cameras make it go up, right? But I say, "Hey, let me make it tighter." Anywhere I can make it tighter, make it tighter.
>> Councilwoman, do you have a follow-up question? >> No. Thank you. Uh >> any other member of council have a question? Let's go back to citizen bud uh budget committee member uh Greg. Yeah, mayor. Thank you. Uh, so just for clarification on the capital, so are we taking the uh tough book and the traffic
signs and cones out of the traffic trust? >> Uh, I believe that answer is correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks for >> All right. Uh, okay, Chief. Uh, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Um, and
we'll we I I'm going to recommend to the body that we consider a 10-minute break and then we return for the uh I believe the recreation department is correct. Is there an objection for a 10-minute break? >> No. >> All right. Motion and second for a 10-minute break.
>> So moved. Second. >> All in favor, please say I. >> See you all back here at 10 o'clock. >> Would you pause? Uh we're just waiting for one other person um uh on council and uh we're
asking everyone else to turn the cameras back on who's remote. >> Just fever. >> In the meantime, uh mayor, can I ask a question of the chief for a second? >> Uh no. >> Oh, >> sorry. Because we're not Yeah, we could because uh no one council member
>> we're back in session. Uh go ahead. Um, Chief, thanks um for your presentation. Just a quick question on the fleet. So, when you get the a new vehicle, what happens to any of the other ve the one that's it it's being replaced? >> Got it.
>> You muted um Chief. >> Sure. So, that means that one has been um on a line on the line being used 247 for four years. And what we do is we bump it down to five or six. And those are the backup cars. All right. When we
have a car down or if we have a detail where we got to bring in an officer, you know, we need more officers for, you know, whether there's um, you know, an event or something going on in town, that's the car they use. And by the time that gets bumped out, then they're they're um they're shot really. We were
making them traffic cars. Jason and I have talked about it that if there is a possibility, we're going to take a look at them now because we do have the traffic cars that once they get past that 656 spot. If there's something valuable left to them, then we can consider selling them or, you know,
doing something with them. But but that has that have uh I've yet to see that happen just because, you know, they they get, you know, they're used 247. They're pushed around town for 24/7 and they're, you know, jumping curbs. They're they uh that takes a toll on them.
>> Yeah. So they can't be repurposed for any other uh utility. >> Well, they're repurposed for that five and six car. And if we need to like also so we have the cars in front of the schools, right? >> Those are those are you see those cars? Those are old, right? So yeah, they would get bumped down. They could get
bumped down to there next. Those are probably the last leg of a car. The SEO3 cars. Those are the school officers cuz they literally just need to roll to the school. There's nothing in them. They look like a police car and that's all we want them to do. We want them to make it to the school and back. So we keep them
there until until Jason's like, "Chief, they're not rolling anymore. We just we got to put it to sleep." >> Got it. >> Yeah. So they become deterrents because of their visibility. >> Absolutely. >> It's going to roll into the next presentation asking about the vehicles.
>> Here we go. Uh next up is wreck department. Joe, take it away. Good morning, mayor, council, uh finance committee. We'll start with uh the capital.
>> Um >> so just recently the uh >> your last name >> the two and fiveyear old playground equipment um was deemed that need to be replaced. Um that's at $75,000, but that
would be being taken out of open space grant. So that's nothing on um the capital um or debt um >> sorry Joe but we didn't see any of that in the sheet we had. And so if you look at the cover sheet, >> look at the cover sheet.
>> The cover sheet. If you look down, first says police vehicles, then fire equipment, then administration, DPW, then it says uh parks and fields. >> We were looking at the the single sheet. >> You were looking at the single sheet. That's how we start. >> Go ahead, Lizette.
>> Um when Joe prepared the five-year plan, >> the need um the playground equipment because he prepared it in the fall, there was no need to replace it. And then once the new year rolled over, just like, you know, we have to replace this playground equipment. It's in bad shape and and it's a liability to the kids who
use it. So, we have it here. Just as an FYI, we'll take we're taking the whole 75,000 out of our open space trust fund. So, that's why you see >> do not include an ordinance. It's just so that way if um it won't be on next
week, it'll be on the following meeting a resolution to buy playground equipment, you don't it doesn't come out of left field. >> Okay. So, I know we're going to have a that debate at the meeting, but for the sake of this meeting right now, >> just for clarification, didn't we just
updated the the the playground in Memorial Park like last year? The entire thing >> that was the 5 to 12 year old playground. This is the 2 to 5 year old playground. This is on the opposite side. >> Oh, different world. Yeah. Okay. All right. >> Thank you. That I think that's a needed clarification. Appreciate that.
>> Yep. >> Um other than that, the only request would be a recreation vehicle um for $30,000. Um same request as last year. Um that's to minimize having to borrow DBW's truck
um having DBW have to come in um for smaller events such as you know um the equipment swap um egg hunt things like that where um it would take away from using my personal vehicle which I've
been using the last 3 years. Um other than that the annual tree planting program Jay you can speak on that a little bit more. Um, but that's all that the uh the capital request for the recreation department would be. >> Yeah, we're going to hold the annual
tree planting until Jason speaks. So, we're going to do that as a as as a as a single garment. Um >> um any questions from the citizen budget committee regarding the memorial park playground replacement or the recreation
vehicle Chevy tracks? Comments or questions? Joe. >> All right. Uh, we can jump to >> No, I'm sorry. I'm in Joe. >> Oh, sorry. >> Sorry, Mr. Mayor. >> Uh, I was just wondering as far as the
vehicle goes, could we use an old vehicle from another department >> that would be decommissioned? >> So, uh, Jason, uh, we're we're going to throw that at you. Um, Jason, can you hear us?
>> Yeah, mayor. I will uh so the chief if he gets the other Tahoe this year, which he's going to do, I will talk to the chief about maybe one of the old SEO cars. Um if he can move it, um it'll again it'll determine um he'll have to
determine what he's going to need for PSEG um details outside duty. But um I I guess I'll sort of leave it up to the chief if he thinks that's that would work. Um, I know our la our next car that is going out is the tourist that is
at one of the schools. Um, it has a little bit of life left in it. I don't know how long it'll go, but we could probably make it go to next year. But that that I'll solely leave that up to the chief since it's his fleet um to figure that out when >> For the sake of uh efficiency, why don't
we do this uh Joe Cordier uh is we'll leave it in the budget for now. We could uh and then uh the chief and Chief Walker and Superintendent Molo can have a conversation with our bur administrator and the uh director of our
rec department and uh it can come to the council before we uh introduce the budget. >> Thank you, mayor. >> You're welcome. >> Only because it's it's a prolonged conversation. I I I don't want to put anyone on the spot right now for deciding that. Is the council okay with
that? Yes. >> All right. Uh, any other questions from the CIS? Joe, good question. Thank you. Uh, any other questions from the citizen budget committee? >> Any questions or comments from the
council? administrator. >> If it is not feasible for the for any police car to be transferred to recreation for the needs of the department, I'm willing to reduce the
document scanning since we had paused it during the construction to cover the cost of the vehicle and not incur greater debt to the burrow. >> All right. So, uh how about this? uh why don't why don't why don't all the uh players uh have a conversation and then
a recommendation can make be made to the council at uh one of the next couple of meetings before we introduce the budget uh in this regard uh the only reason that we wouldn't discuss it now at great length is because the condition of the vehicle and the other vehicles it's it's
not a question that I believe can be answered at this time >> and we would we would waste valuable I I I missed that. Are you saying you don't need the document scanning? >> Um, we do need the document scanning. Um, but it's not an immediate need since
we paused it for a couple of years. So, I could extend um the end of the program another year. >> So, we could take it out anyway. >> No, you cannot now with the offers we get. >> All right. >> We'll just make do. >> We'll just make two. Um, okay. So, um
>> Joe, yes, >> I have one question. >> Sure. Go ahead. >> Uh regarding Hi, Joe. >> Regarding the Memorial Park playground replacement, uh the number that is in front, uh I'm sure there is um you've you've broken it down like or taken is
does this pro process actually go through RFQ or it is done by state contract or um one of our co-ops? And there is uh there is no grant that we can from the county or the state that
we can have through for that because >> based on the need to replace it the grant process would take too long. >> How long? >> At least a year or two. >> So can can this can this wait for an year because I see from the different um in the different counties or the
different towns that there has been a grant given for playgrounds from the county. Yes, that's through the open space grant, but again, that takes a year and a half to even get the award and go through the process. And you know, this is an eligible use of the
open space trust fund as established by by state law. There's that immediate need. And our main focus now is um once there is a special projects engineer to evaluate Memorial Park overall for the
pathways and the flooding and whatnot and apply for grants to help cover those costs, but the playground cannot wait. >> Playground doesn't come under the grant. >> It comes under the grant, but because of the timing and the condition of the playground, it cannot wait to go through
the grant process. >> Okay. Lisa said if you could speak to the immediacy needs what is driving the immediacy need that it would trump that >> we wait for one year if there's a reason and there's driven you can explain that >> I defer to the recreation director as he
inspects the equipment >> sure and um >> I don't >> there is the on each playground there's a a hard soft rubber coating um that is now deteriorating showing rusted metal.
Um, no one wants 2 to 5y olds cutting themselves on rusted metal. Um, this playground equipment is over 10 years old, well over 10 years old. Um, we are salvaging all as many pieces of equipment as we can.
Um, but it it basically it's it's a hazard just walking on the the steps itself for the kids to get on the this equipment needs to be replaced. And just to be clear, um Chris, this this money is coming out of the open
space money that we currently have. It's not coming out of capital. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay, >> Councilwoman, anything else? >> Thank you. >> Any other member of council? >> Okay. Uh nice >> to see. >> Oh, I missed it. Someone has their hand.
Oh, uh Jason, go ahead. >> You're muted. Just to add to Joe's comments, the problem with playground equipment, once it gets to a certain age, it gets discontinued. So, the other problem is to repair the equipment, the parts are
no longer available because they're specialized pieces that are you'll see them all different colors, shapes, and everything. They'll be discontinued. So, it's almost impossible to try to get like a pipe or sled or anything for that piece.
>> Okay. followup questions. >> All right. Um Joe, thank you very much. Since there's no change, we don't need to take a vote right now on the draft budget. We appreciate it. Jason, take it away. >> I just got to go over operating budget
real quick. >> Show your operating budget. Sorry. >> Um it should be quick though. Uh there is not many changes. I have one account. Um >> you please tell us the page and number. Yes, I will. Let me find it real quick. Looks like it is
page 106. >> Yeah. AED is ending in 176. >> What page? 176. >> 176. >> No, no, no. 103. Sorry. 103. >> Account ending in 176.
>> Okay. >> Go ahead. Um the AED contract is up. I actually as listed on on the uh information in front of you that it was for 6,500. Um that was based on a quote back in 2025. Um the uh company that we
use for AD contracts just reached out and I will have to up that to 6700. So, it's going to increase $200 and that's for a two-year AED maintenance contract. Um, >> library.
>> That's we have eight total AEDs throughout the town between parks and in Burough Hall as well as the library. Um, this contract includes um a yearly inspection that the company comes out
and then um any uh replacement of pads, batteries, any of the medical supplies and the little first aid kits. Um and then if necessary, we are able to replace up to one AED, which average
cost is about uh $17 to $1,800. But that is all included in that 6,700. Now it would be >> okay. Uh keep going. >> Um that is the only increase in the operating if you guys want me to
go through each operating. Um other than >> to highlight the council and the committee can ask questions as they see fit. Uh whatever you feel you need to highlight, you you're welcome to do so. But >> I believe that would be it. We um and then the accounts that Jason and DB DBW
and I share um we can go over that together. I guess once uh unless you want to go over that now, Jack. >> No, if you want to go over that together, that's great. Let's wait until uh we recognize Jason and then Jason, you can prioritize the ones that deal with Wreck and then we can let Joe go.
But right now, let's just stick with those that are purely Wreck. >> Yep. And that would be it. Other than that, everything remains the same. or gets reduced. >> All right. Um so um it we'll do questions and comments and then if uh if
the body is interest willing to do so we will then alter the 6500 to 6700 if the body is interested. So, first the uh system budget committee Al >> uh this is just a general question and and it's been I I'm only thinking of it
because Joe listed this on his uh in his his notes here. Is has there been any thought of of we have a lot of AEDs in various departments. Has there been a consolidating that contract into one and seeing if we can get a better deal on
somebody covering all of them? And it's >> it's just an idea for the it's an idea for the borrow for the mayor and council and for the the administrator to kind of think about it. It's more of a comment than a question. >> All right, then continue.
>> Okay, cool. >> Nothing else, Al. >> That's it. That was my >> Any other member of the committee? Any member of council comment or question? >> Just just one question, Joe. Just for the for my identification, how many is
it a total of eight ads that the recreck handles? >> Correct. >> Including the two new ones that will be purchased. >> Which two new ones? >> Two additional ad. >> Oh, those were added this year. So that
would be under this contract. The two new ones for Burough Hall and the library. >> Oh, three. Okay. Uh we just got three three new AEDs. >> Okay. >> I would total of eight. >> Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. >> I have one question. Hi Joe. Um this is
page 103 um line 177. It says certified playground mulch and for Memorial and Brookside. So if if we if if that is in the capital for renovation on the other side of Memorial Park, then this will
substantially probably reduce, right? >> No, that does not include the the mulch in the uh playground. >> The mulch needs to be there's certifications for how deep mulch has to be on new playground equipment. Um
this that 12615 um includes the three playgrounds in Memorial Park and Brookside. Um with the new equipment in Memorial Park, it's going to have to be dug up. They're going to uh try to um replace or or
reuse as much mulch, but um it still needs that fresh layer to get that 6 in of uh of uh at the uh the mark of new playground equipment to be ser to to be approved as safety
from our uh GIF. So as playground inspection >> what I'm understanding is that if the playground equipment is approved um and when it is done >> you will still need additional >> when they put it they do not include the mulch or anything. It
>> it is cheaper to go through the mulch from the maintenance contract compared to getting the company that to install the playground as the uh to to provide more mulch. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions
from any member of council or citizen budget committee? >> I have a question. Joe, under 177 right there on page 103, the KBG sprinkler service $800. How does that how do we reconcile that with the
improvement in KBG right now? >> So, we're basing that off of the 2025 number. Um, there is additional sprinkler systems added. Um, but I believe depending on I believe that it will be roughly around that same price
to winterize them and to turn them on. >> Okay. After the whole all improvements are done. That's for winterization then. >> Correct. Roughly. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments? >> All right. Joe, stay with us. We're
gonna switch to Jason. Uh, no. I'm sorry. Do we uh is the is the council uh willing to um change the draft um operation budget for uh wreck item uh 370-176
from 6,500 to 6,700? >> Yes. >> Can I have a motion to second? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any abstension? Hearing none we will move on. Jason take us away. Thank you, mayor, council,
committee, budget committee. Um, I'd like to start since we're here with Joe now and we were just off of operating with him. Um, I guess we can go into operating on mine first and then I'll go into the uh capital >> and you can actually go back and forth.
You want to go on to operating that involves Joe and then go back to it Jason because you have a rather large budget given you touch every department in the burrow. So, go ahead. So, I have a sheet here that pretty much just summarizes the increases and decreases
of my cap of my operating budget. All the rest has stayed the same. Um, so I will just read out the page numbers and uh the account lines and then go from there. All right. Okay. Page 68, overtime. Um,
>> 58 or 68. >> 68. 68. >> And Jason, when you read out the page, give us a moment to find it. No problem. >> Okay. Give us the reference number. >> Uh overtime line reference number 20
29013. That's the last six. >> The 013 is the fine. >> All right. So it's it due to how this year started with all the snowstorms and um hurric uh all the all the blizzards
and everything and trucking snow and due to the unionized contract being on double time. Um, we sort of got a little bit um I guess our overtime line sort of got a little behind here. Um, so I'm I'm asking to increase that line 27,000
um to make it through the rest of the year. This will cover any hurricane, storms, fallbacks that we might have throughout the year. Um, that will also help out with the contractual obligations that we have and increases to the unionized members.
Um, second line that I'm looking to increase is on page 70. >> 207. >> He's moving that. That's the request. It would go from 180 to 207. >> Yeah. No, 180 to No, no, no, no. 158 to 180. Mayor
>> 18 already. >> Yeah. Sorry. It's $27,000 increase. Your numbers. I'm just giving you the increases. >> Okay. So Jason, if it's already changed in the draft budget, you do not need to address it unless the member of the system budget committee or the council
want to question it. So uh only to things that will need uh some sort of motion for change uh at this point. >> All right. Nothing then, mayor. Everything is going to stay budget. >> I love that. That's great. Okay. Now of
course uh any member of the committee or the council can uh anywhere in the bud your budget ask for questions and they may do so in a minute. So um and all of these uh so these are never mind is uh let's let's
move is does any member of the uh committee wish to ask a question about the operating budget of the u department of public works. Seeing none, any member of council wish to ask a question, make a comment about the operation of the public works.
>> Just to follow, I mean, I just want to um acknowledge um Jason, I think we totally get why overtime has to increase this year for uh the snow removal and such. So, we get that. Thank you for explaining that.
>> No problem. any uh so Jason uh any >> I do have a question. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I Jason, thank you for always being uh preparing the the budget. Um quick question if we can tie back the uh planting. I think I don't want to miss
that because it impacts Joe. The 30,000 I see that the tree planting on page 74 item 167 is zero. >> Is it because it's under the red line now for the 30,000? No, no. So that's on capital now. So we
are allowed to put that towards capital. So that's I'll talk a little bit about that with the tree planting >> um when we get to the capital line because that follows our five-year forestry management plan. >> Yeah. >> That you guys approved um that is into the state right now. So that all ties
into that. Um so I'll go over that um when I get to capital. Um, with relations to Joe's budget, there is no change to the um um to the recreational uh operating
budget. There was only the decrease that you guys all seen for the $5,000 um for the ball field clay. Um so his line actually dropped uh a significant amount and that would be uh line number 37182.
So page 37182. >> Uh page 105. >> Okay. 105. >> And that is 37182 which has already been changed. >> I wish last three just helped >> 105 and the last three >> 182 and that's already been changed. So
that's the only difference in Joe's operating lines. >> Okay. >> Uh any member of citizen budget committee wish to ask a question and make a comment? Any member of the council wish to make a
question? Ask question. >> I have a question. Mayor Jason, on page 72, the tree removal, you requested $9,000 this year. Can you explain that? >> That's the emergency tree removal. So that's when we need a crane. So if we
own an easement in the backyard of a house, >> Yeah. >> and a tree and a tree has to come out, we obviously don't have a crane. So, if we have a hurricane or anything like that, this allows us to be able to bring in like a company like Downs or something to be able to assist us to
crane it over the house um and take it down. So, that's really what that's for. >> Thank you, >> Bruce. >> Yep. Thank you. Um, this past winter obviously was a crazy
winter with extreme weather that we had to deal with. Um, I recall that uh there was some offer of assistance from the county and other uh local officials. Is
there anything that you would recommend uh Jason that we can ask in the future in terms of assistance from the county or state legislators or even on the federal level? any kind of assistance that we
can ask for if they're offering that could reduce some of the overtime costs and other costs related to the weather uh extreme weather situations. >> So, um OEM would have been a great uh
person to ask, Bill Sanders. Right now, we're going over this last blizzard. Um there is an assistance. Uh, I guess the county is asking for all of the um what we paid out for the storm in overtime, equipment loss, salt, um, and supposedly
it will be generated since the storm met certain criterias and it will go to the state through the county for reimbursement to the county and then eventually to the towns. So, right now it's sort of up in the air without having really a FEMA um, system in the federal government. So, I know right now
the state is I guess asking for that information. I know uh Chief Sanders has started filling that out. Um and I given him some information already and some other information he requested will be going out to him Monday. Um so that that
really assists that program and it's a reimbursement. Anything that you get from FEMA, you still have to fund for it. like think about it to pay it out direct because all you're going to be able to do through the state and federal government is get reimbursements
>> so out the cash. >> Yeah, thank you. That's that's helpful. I'm just curious if if we get let's say there's another, you know, whether it's a hurricane or a snowstorm or something like that and we get a call from our local officials saying, "What can we do
to help?" Would you have any suggestions on what we can ask for specifically? >> Yeah, I I it's always salt, overtime, and everything else. It's always it again, I'll go back to how all the systems usually work is you got to lay
out the funds and after the storm, you're always going to get a questionnaire, and that's always going to run through your your local OEM. Um, and that questionnaire is going to help you assist if there's anything that's available for reimbursement. So, I think if you're going to ask anything through
our our county or state um uh politicians is um pretty much the speed of it. Um if there's a a criteria that's going to be a steady criteria, not just um if they pick and choose whether or not a storm's going to be a storm or
not. Maybe have more of a a criteria that's always in place. Um it seems like there's nothing like that anymore. um when it comes to being set up for um any of these storms and pre-assessing every
uh uh preassessing all the buildings and our um capabilities. I know the county comes around every three years or four years. Lzette can help me with this and they sit down with us through their OEM and ask for any kind of what we would
need for assistance to uh set ourselves up before that situation happens. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, there are things in place, but I think it's more continuity through the state level since the federal FEMA is
like pretty much no longer there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It's not. >> Yeah. >> Uh, anyone else for a question or comment? >> Oh, council woman. Hi, Jason.
uh the I for my knowledge the overtime does not uh include for the employees it does not include the meal and everything that's >> no so the governing so the the local 125 contract um has all that written out
they're allowed a meal allowance at a certain rate um so that has to be funded for we are over that but I you know in that capital line or in that sorry in the control lines I'm able to adjust that with other accounts. Um, so we
don't ever have to really up it because some some years we don't use it all and some years we go way over. So, but that is a that is a contractual obligation. That line >> that >> so it's not an overtime. Overtime is
totally different than that line. >> You mean line 167 on page 69? Is that the one you mean? It says mail cost. This is uh >> yeah meal costs are are are unionized
obligations. It's $9 an hour $9 every four hours per union member as they're here on overtime for for for storm events only. For emergency emergency events only so like a standard overtime Saturday if I
bring them in to do some parks and stuff to get done that doesn't comply to that. that they they don't get the meal allowances. It's only for emergencies. >> Yeah. Overtime can only cover salaries, you know, direct payment. Um this is a
reimbursement and I sign a lot of purchase orders that Jason signs to reimburse the employees. They have to provide their receipts or the documentation. So that has to be an operating expense, not a salary and wage expense. So this the the line 167 is
totally different from >> correct. >> Yeah. >> Just to just to reimburse as per the collective bargaining agreement the the meal cost at as Jason mentioned $9 for every four hours of the storm. Mhm.
>> And just for my knowledge for councilman followup as a councilman Feffer's question on overtime on page one page 68 line 13 um from 2021 when hurricane hit
>> that was substantial and historic too. So that was approximately like 84 or you know $84,000 or around $95,000 and we have substantially increased from then to now to $180,000. >> I'm going to tell you why. There's two
>> I'm not debating the snowstorm of I shoveled enough but I'm not debating the snowstorm but a snowstorm versus a hurricane Sandy which came in 2012. >> Give him a chance. I'm going to explain it. So, I'm going to explain. There was two hurricane There was two snowstorms this year. All right, that's going to
drastically go up. There was one in January and one just past February. So, we had a 12-in snowstorm, if you remember, and then we went right into I I think it was like 20inch snowstorm. Um, with that, also, just so you know, in 2022, our collective bargaining
agreement got redone with the union, which we were one of the worst contracts in probably the world. um with the step uh process. So uh the mayor and council at that time decided to uh fix the
contract to be more um competitive with our surrounding towns. So we fixed that contract. With doing that, the step scales have changed. So the increases have become a little more which obviously offsets and raises the overtime a lot more. Um when you also
have also in that contract um double time was put in for Sundays which we were mostly on these past couple of storms um instead of time and a half. So there's a lot of uh contributing factors why this has been going up
year-over-year since 2021. Um I've been keeping it flat for the last I believe three years or two years. I think it was flat at 158. Um, and now with these two snowstorms, I just couldn't hold it flat anymore. So, and I think Chris can add more to
that if you need. >> Councilman, do you >> Thank you, J. >> That's a good question. It's a great question. Do you want more information from the CFO? >> I I feel like a blizzard versus a hurricane. I mean, I I understand uh our roads were um um very very good compared
to you actually got to know when you cross river edge. Can I believe it? Believe it or not, a hurricane is a lot easier than a blizzard. >> A lot easier because afterwards the cleanup of a blizzard, you have snow removal. The cleanup of a hurricane is
water decre declining and just a sweeper going out like we've had down by Aerson and all that other stuff like in 2021 with ISIS or whatever that storm was that flooded company 2 and our yard. Um, it's a lot
easier. >> Jason, you're freezing. >> Let me pick it up a little bit. One of the things that is different after a hurricane and a storm while while he's buffering is that um Jason of course after any storm or something he and I get in the truck, we go around town and
he uh talks about what we're doing, what we're not doing. For instance, all the um the curbs be around the schools have to be done by the DPW. So, we literally have to bring in um snow removal and so we have to have a crew of five 10 guys
and they come and then there's a front loader. We have to clear out uh all the u handicap uh ADA ramps for the sidewalks. where which is normally a resident's obligation around school
becomes our obligation. So uh and then if you had noticed there were um there are two streets that are cobblestone. They have to be cleared out that also requires special equipment. And then then you have if you were driving on Kermak while they were doing this, there
was literally 30 feet of snow, a 30- foot tower of snow which then had to be put into a dump truck and brought down to DBW area when So if you go down to KGB park where the the uh where they where we um park for the uh swim club,
you'll now you'll it's melting now, but there was literally 30 feet of snow from the river all the way stuff to uh to the the main drag in there. So all these things uh so in a way it's not the type
of weather event, it's the consequences of the weather event that determines the overtime. Jason, are you back with us yet? >> Can you hear me? >> Yeah. Jason, anything I said that is incorrect or needs to be uh um that you need to elaborate on, feel free to.
>> No, you you you explained it well. It's also and and I'll relate uh also Mike's here too. There is traffic stuff that we have to we have to make sure that we take care of um obviously the drop offs in front of the schools and everything. And then down on the south end the
corners the bus drop offs the bus shelters all the shoveling. It's not as easy as everybody thinks. Just plow and you go home. We have a lot of obligations. Um, so we were not put in any kind of difficulties with slip and
falls and all the other stuff. So we also have all the way down to the roof for overpass. You might think that's state, but that's not. We have an obligation to shovel that and salt that. So there's a lot of stuff that comes with a uh with snow that doesn't really come with a hurricane.
>> Bus shelters. Talk about that. >> Yeah, bus shelters as well. Bus shelters, >> everything. parking lot. >> You mentioned uh the school and mayor mentioned the school. The school uh sidewalks are our responsibility. >> No, the school sidewalks is their
responsibility. The access to uh from sidewalk to sidewalk is our responsibility. So, it's all it's all very complicated and delineated depending upon, you know, statutes by uh contractual agreements and things like that. But yes, snow is much more labor
intensive. And yeah, you just don't simply plow and you're done. It took us what, Jason? It took another 24 hours. >> Altogether, that storm was almost 40 hours. And then >> going through the whole And then going through the whole um town trucking snow
is the whole following week and a half. >> You get to clean the corners. >> You don't have to get You don't have to do it on overtime. Maybe. No, no, they're not on overtime, but I'm just saying 40 hours on o for the initial just to leave to get all the burrow properties cleared because we you also,
just so you guys know, we have cobblestone roads. >> So, Web and Lincoln, I have to you can't plow them with a regular plow. I have to actually push them down and then truck all that snow out at the end of the snow storm. That's an additional hour and a half right there with the loaders and
everything just to get that snow gone. So, there's a lot of a lot of pieces to a snowstorm that aren't to a hurricane. >> Do you have a follow-up question? >> No. Thank you. >> I think you No, I'm sorry. I'm going to go to Chris first and then I'll go to
the chief and then I'll go to Al. Chris, uh, go ahead. >> Thanks, Mayor. Just wanted to add real quick that um in 2021 which is where where this report starts uh 21 22 and 23 we had four different accounts where
over time was split between we had buildings and grounds salary and wages we had maintenance of parts salary and wages repair and maintenance which is what we're talking about now recycling and vehicle maintenance all had their own overtime lines in 2024 we consolidated all of them um as a for for
a bunch of reasons but ultimately if you look at those reports as you scroll as we go through the rest of this you'll see that the overtime is now zero for all of them. So it has been consolidated. So while while all of the storm related things are a big component of that um the the appearance of the
increase is um probably not as as uh um realistic as what actually happened. The the increase wasn't really materially um different. Thank you, Chris. Chief. >> Yeah, just real quick what just on uh what Jason said just to uh something
that people often don't think about or realize with storms as big as they are. Jason, myself, the superintendants will confer um because obviously they want they want to get those schools open and why the streets look clear the next day and parents are like why aren't the
schools opening or why is there a delayed opening? Um, we work closely, you know, I talk closely with the superintendent and Jason to say, "Hey, what are we going to do?" The kids can't climb over those mountains and u on those corners. So Jason's got to get in with his guys and they come in earlier
than they ever do and they move, as you say, just go down to KBG and you can see how much snow they move. So that's like stuff behind the scenes maybe that people don't realize that there's it's it's a huge operation to make the to take care of those storms. I think Jason makes it looks almost uh easy to where
we're moving around and we're back at school at 10 the next day and the superintendent are very grateful because not every district is able to pull that off. >> Al, >> um I just want to throw a couple kudos to to Jason and the crew. I mean, these
guys do a fabulous job of taking care of our town and keeping it open. Uh I I noticed uh in in just in in a comment here that the um one of the storms and I I don't know which one it was but I mean they couldn't have been you know the
street was covered and then probably within 15 minutes all of a sudden the truck is coming through and piling through a lane to give the police to give the fire department to give the ambulance core a a opportunity to be
able to get to a scene if they had to and this is at the beginning of the storm so that the the streets are open for us to get to where we have to go in the event of a a bad situation and and that there's no way to you know kind of
put this into money at least in my mind but it's saving lives and it's helping people get where they have to go. Uh just a final comment there. I I knew somebody that was a what it is a nurse in Hackinack and she had to go to work
during the storm and she said, "Boy, I got out of h I got out of River Edge fine, but as soon as I got into Hackinack, I was slipping and sliding all over the place. I It took me longer to get into the Hackinack Hospital than
it would have taken any time before. It it was an unbelievable difference in how the streets were maintained. So Jason, you're doing a great job. Thank you. >> And Jason did it. Five Jason, you were five guys down. >> Yeah. Thanks, Al. The other so the other
thing that just so you all understand this year since we had such a snowstorm and I have to increase it that doesn't mean next year if we if we go through the whole beginning of the year January February and we go back to the old way this this would be an item that can
increase or decrease. So I would be always open to looking at it to possibly decrease it back down to 27 grand as well. This just happens to be a year that we started off really getting destroyed. So with the overtime
>> that pretty anything else. >> Thank you. Thank you, Jason. >> Any other member of council or of the committee? >> Just a question. >> Question or comment. >> Uh just a a question Jason on page 76. Um uh there's only one line item there.
So the contract went down 50,000 um for this year, which is great. When is the new contract for garbage coming up? >> So that will be 2029, the end of 2029. I think I believe it's November of 29. So
the problem is, and Chris can talk more to this, we we looked at it again this year to try to offset some costs. We tried to leave that a little high year-over-year because at the initial time when we were ready to go out for contracts, we were out able to go
outside with the cap. That means Chris didn't have to stick to the cap that the state provides him, the percentage. So, we loaded up those um to go outside. So, this was a very favorable contract. I just want this council to know very
favorable. It was supposed to be around 300 grand more. So, um what's going to happen is we wanted to try to keep that 150 to 100 grand more. So when we have to start building it back up to the next contract, it's not so great. And and
just in case we're not allowed to go outside the cap, we don't hit the town residents in 28 and 29 with this massive increase. So we deducted it last year by 200,000 and an additional 500,000 this year since that contract came in. So
that's what I believe Chris felt uh comfortable with and I will let him explain further because he understands more of the outside going outside the cap and everything else. So Chris, if you want to chime in. >> Thanks Jason.
>> Yeah and this is actually very similar to the conversation you had earlier about debt service, right? It's it's it's also a matter of of making sure that we don't end up with a big spike, right? So, if we if we build in uh small increases uh over the life of the
current garbage contract, by the time we get to an an inevitable increase in a future contract, we won't be, you know, a couple hundred,000 behind. Uh we did that with this last one as well. Um so far, it's fared us very well. Um and you
know that's that's the plan uh moving forward unless unless there's a desire um by the council to to change that. >> No, this is a conservative budgeting process of uh it anticipating not just the current need but future needs
because the taxpayer cannot bear a burden of a sudden increase. You can't simply say, "Oh, look, we kept the budget the tax increase to 2% and then three years down the line say, "Oh, but now it's going to be 20%." So that people can't can't budget for that.
That's just unreasonable. There are towns that do this in Bur County. There are towns right now doing this to their residents where they had a council who wanted to look good and said, "Oh, we're going to give you a we're going to have a flat zero budget. Your taxes aren't
going to go up, at least on the municipal level." And they did this until they all got voted out of office. And then what happened was an auditor came in and said, "Oh my god, you guys are we're going to downgrade your status because you don't have any surplus. You don't have any of this. You don't have
any of that." And the taxpayers are getting 12, 15, 20% tax increases um on the municipal side because of um of well >> business. >> Yeah. It's it's nonsense. Conservative
budgeting practices serve the public better. They serve the departments better. They serve the mission better. So kudos to Jason, to Chris, and to all our other department heads for um for the work they do to
make sure that we have a steady budget instead of an erratic budget. >> Um okay. Uh Jason, where do you want to go now? >> Is that all the questions? You're all good? I think so. I don't see any other hands.
>> So, is there anything else on the OEM that you on your salary and wages or operation? >> No, Chris really hit the other major increases at the beginning um that were the big drivers of the budget increase uh like the electric and the gas and uh all the BCUA fines. So, I think I'm okay
with the OE um at this time. I'll just go right to the capital. >> Excellent. Okay. >> All right. >> Sorry, mayor. I just have one just for my clarification. I'm not understanding what is u page 79 line 1 190 if you
don't mind explaining for my knowledge what it is please. Thank you. >> So that's increased tipping fees. That's um so that's that's the recycling line. Um
>> Chris, what is that line at if you don't mind me asking? currently paid or what's what's >> no what how much did we budget that this year for that increased tipping >> 65,000 so >> yeah I'm looking for the page
>> it's a good question >> I'm looking at now >> when we started the inflation >> so what exactly >> the increased tipping fees is at 65,000 you have it decrease by 5,000 using the
December bill of about 5,400 times 12 months. >> Okay, so that's our recycling tipping. Recycling we used to get paid for. Now we have to pay for it. It's a commodity, so it varies from month to month. The price can go up, the price can go down.
Um, last month I had a bill come in for our recycling tipping for I believe it was $4,700. January's bill was $5,200. Um so again it fluctuates. I was trying
to decrease that line but at the end of the day um what what's going on is last year we went down to 40. If you see it three year yearover-year for the last three years get to that so I can explain it better.
>> Is this plastics and cardboard or >> Yeah, it's all recyclables. Cans, plastic, glass, cardboard. Um, so what page number was that again? 69 >> 79 >> 79.
>> The question is just what it is. What is what >> the question is what it is and also if if it is recycling then on page 80 it says recycling tax. That's different from tipping. I just want to understand what tipping here. >> Yeah, tipping is our disposal of it
pretty much. That's all it is. Our dis our disposal of all recycling materials. >> So we are approximately using $65,000 to dispose recycle. >> No, we're budgeting budgeting. We're approximately using if you look year-over-year, one year and 23 was
65,000. Um 24 was 27,000. 25 is 36,000. It's all over the globe. And starting this year, I wanted to decrease it, but starting out this year, we're already at 42 and $4,700. >> So, it' probably be cheaper for us not
to recycle, right? >> Yeah. >> That's the going It's cheaper for a ton of garbage to be quite honest with you. But that's the state laws don't allow us to do that. So, we have to uh make sure that we have an adequate amount of money in that line. And there is nothing that
the county or the state would go that we are doing so so good with recycling. >> No, it's it this is a third party that collects our recycling. So, um this is not the BCOA. We have to have our own contracts with our own vendors. So, we
signed a four-year contract with Atlantic Coast Fiber back in I believe that was the end of 24. Yeah. >> So, we have a four-year contract with them and they provide all services where some of the recycling vendors only
supply either cardboard and or the the co-mingle end. So, >> so in just for my clarification, this means that uh in the budget, not only this, but also the uh line 300, which is
the recycling tax, almost like $80,000 we are budgeting for recycling. >> Yes. And and that's that's the county recycling tax. That's that's the 3% that's for that we get back on our Chris. Don't we get that back with our
uh the tonnage grant? >> Yeah. It's a imprecise calculation that the state does that. >> Yes. >> They they try to give us something back. >> Yes. So it is two different things. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> We're good. Uh Al, >> am I correct in is is this stuff that would the tipping is that going into the landfill? >> No, this gets recycled. These are all this is where they bundle it. This is uh we use again Atlantic Coast Fibers. They
we pick it all up, we bring it to them, and they bundle and send it out to whoever the the vendors are that recycle the product. >> There's the middle ground tipping. Uh >> Okay. All right. All right. Thank you. Uh, okay. Uh, anyone else? Can we move
on? >> I just have a clarification question, Jason. On page 80, the only item there just for connecting the dots of uh, Councilwoman Nagra's question. Could you
explain what the recycling tax is? >> It's a tax the county puts on us, right, Chris? And Chris could probably go more to this, but it's a tax the county puts on us. It's a 3% tax um >> on I forgot what it's taxed to. Chris
could probably do that. It's not the overall tax. It's a 3% tax I guess of what we tip Chris if I'm correct or >> Yeah. It's just a it's just $3 per ton uh of solid waste. That's that's basically all it is.
>> Yeah. So, the more we pick up, the more we get back on the recycling tonnage grant. >> Got it. And it's increased because like like you explained, it's a commodity. So we just giving ourselves >> well year over year there's an increase to that to to that >> you're supposed to incentivize generating less garbage.
>> Yes. >> If you want to see that. >> Very well. Yeah. That's it. >> All goes to the landfill. Believe me. I've been doing this. >> Okay. Let's move on. Jason >> continue. >> All right. So we're good with that. We'll go with capital. How about that?
Make it easy. >> All right. So, do you guys all have my spreadsheet? That's >> great. >> Yes. Wait, >> we have several. >> Yes. >> Yeah, that if you go to the actual beginning spreadsheet, the actual
summary sheet, and we'll start from there so everybody's on the same page. >> Okay, >> go ahead. We'll catch up. >> Okay, so as you can see on the summary page, we have uh >> you guys good? >> Yeah. >> Yep. Go ahead. We have nine categories
um equaling a total of 1.464,3880 for the year. That is way down from last year's. I just want to say that um because I know there were some questions on that where we were around $5 million going into this year in capital. Um, and that's a decrease due to what we're
eligible to do on salt shed um down in the DPW and some other items I've pretty much moved down or take taken off. Um, >> sorry. >> So, look at this sheet. >> Look at this sheet. >> Look just at the top line and you'll see
that at the end of the top line it says 1.4 >> because this is 2026, 2027, 2028. So, we're going to look at just so everybody understands 20 the other capital years are not completed yet due to grant uh possibilities.
>> So, you're going to see in those sheets that there's a lot of highlighted areas. >> Um that we're still waiting and they're all pending. >> Um so, we're I just want to really concentrate on this year's >> um and go
>> perspective not. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right, >> continue. >> All right, so the first one we'll go to is vehicles on the following page. It'll have three vehicles on there. Um,
>> yes, we have it. Go ahead. >> Is a 2026 Toro field screen. >> Jason, why don't we do this? Can you um do you want to throw it up on the screen because I I think people your your budget's a little bit complicated. >> All right, share.
You want to share? Share. >> I'm horrible at doing this stuff. Just so you know, >> maybe Chris can do this. Do you have >> Jason? Don't do it. Chris, would you please put up Jason's uh spreadsheets? >> Jason, keep going. Chris will get it
done when he can get it done. >> Okay. Okay. The 20 in 2026, we have a ballfield screener that will be replacing a 26y old groomer that's been through two floods and is starting to fall apart. Um, that is an estimated >> Yeah. Next.
>> There you go, Chris. Thank you. >> That is an estimated $42,000. I got actually the quote here. Um, the second item is a new John Deere Gator. Um, we have an old open cart that is also 26 year years old that was bought
with the groomer that has broken its axle and the brakes are no longer working correctly. That was $40,000. Have a quote here. And then the bus is no Chris put this on here because there is no debt on this. That's why it's
highlighted. We reconsolidated funds from the past to this line. So, it's in this year's capital, but it's funded through closed out old capital lines, >> if I said that correctly. Right, Chris?
>> Yeah. And and it will be uh the resolution hasn't passed yet, right? We want to get through this meeting, but when we do adopt this ordinance, assuming that we and actually we have to keep this one on because we've already authorized this with an emergency authorization previously. So, that'll
fund the emergency authorization. Um, but it will be done in conjunction with a cancellation resolution for the old balances that Jason's referring to. >> Yeah. And this is to this is to fund the bus. That's a 2008 that the floor fell through the drive the driver's floor
fell through the >> the driver's seat fell through the floor and now the motor is on its last leg ready to blow up. So, we did get 17 years out of it. 18 years out of this bus. >> That's good, Jason. Keep going.
>> All right. Let's go next to roads. Next page, Chris. >> Jason, keep going. He'll catch up. >> All right. So, roads, we have our obligations. So, we all know PSEG will be doing phase two. They started last
year. Um, we've recently sat down with them. They'll be starting up again as soon as the snow starts to dissipate. They'll be going from Concord to Continental. Um, we did start what we're obligated to pave and that was Manning.
These are other streets that we're going to be obligated to pay in this process and they will be paving the rest. This is taking full streets on our end and then putting our allowance instead of them doing one half of a street, putting our allowance that they're giving us to
uh complete street paving on those streets. So this is what we have. So pretty much it's Elm A all the way from Continental to Berkeley. We're responsible for Concord Drive. Um and and Tenny A right in front of the burrow
hall to the library. Now I'm funding for these this year because I have to wait I won't be able just to go out to bid on these. I'll have to wait until PSEG is completed with their uh pipe installation before we can do this. But
this is just the funding to put in place so we can pave them as soon as they're done. Chris, next. Uh parking lots. There is zero ADA ramps. That's the next one. Chris, ADA ramps. So, this was a five-year So,
we had a five-year um plan to these ramps um to to be able to do all the ramps to the paving streets we're responsible for and to follow PSENG. I pushed that out until six years um
just due to the cost and try to spread it out a little bit. Um so, this this program will go to 27. Um, this is Valley Road. So, we're caught up right now all the way to Continental. So, the
section that PSEG is in that is completed besides Grant Streets that we're going to wait to get grants on to put those ramps in. Um, this year we'll be going Howland South down to Route 4. And if you see the streets right under
it, that'll be the corners that are done. So, Howland's a big uh sorry, Valley is a big part of that. Um and then of course Taft Van Son Lexington. So the cost of 167750
is all the streets the engineering costs the police costs and I did put 5% um cost in there as you could see for unforeseen costs. All these are going to have unforeseen costs. So if they hit a manhole out of nowhere or something that
was unexpected in the engineer plan, we have a little bit of room there to be able to make adjustments and have the money available. Anything bigger than that would obviously go in front of the council again if something was to hit. Any
questions on that? >> Jason, we're going to hold questions until you're done with presentations and then we'll there'll be questions and comments. >> All right. Curbs and sidewalks. There is none. Building and grounds, Chris.
Building and grounds. All right. So, you see right there. So, as we started uh Burrow Hall, um I talked to the chief and I was talking to a couple members of council at that time that we were going to slow roll and try to do a lot of Burough Hall obviously in-house and
quoting trying not to use professional services like engineers. So, what we started last year was painting, removing the wallpaper in Burough Hall and and starting the process. Um, this year I'd like to continue the painting and actually
finish it on the public safety side. I would like also to replace the public safety floors and actually Chris, you could take that from 200,000 to 160. I finally got the quote back. So, I will do it on my spreadsheet just so you
know. That could be a reduction of 40,000. >> Okay, we're gonna hold here because it's a reduction. I don't think this will require a lot of thought. >> All those in favor of altering the draft by $40,000
uh for uh buildings and grounds item uh replace public safety floors from 200,000 to 160,000. Uh could I have a motion and second? >> It's been moved and seconded. All in favor, please say I. >> I. It is so altered. Continue, Jason.
>> Okay. And then last year we funded the lights to go to LED. So this year I would like to fund the ceiling tiles throughout the whole public safety um building because they're all warped, falling down or stained with leaks from
the old roof that we used to have. We did replace the roof uh two years ago along with the AC units. So I'm I'm looking for 40,000 there. This will actually complete the burrow hall uh the complete burrow hall and to the public
safety side um with the exception of the kitchen which I think I can work with Chris on that with a couple other accounts we have. So this will pretty much bring us the whole building up to um
up to today's standards. >> Okay, let's stop here for a second. Chris, is the 40,000 in the draft or is it waiting to be approved for the draft? >> It's in the draft. >> Because it's in red. That's why I asked. >> Chris, you're muted.
>> Sorry about that. Uh the the the draft has 42,000. So, it had the 40,000 and we added a 5% buffer because I think at the time maybe we didn't have final prices. So on the on the spreadsheet that we've been working on like that PDF document with the general capital summary that
we've been working down the line for all the other departments it does have public safety building um ceiling tiles at 42,000. So >> you can bring that down to 40 Chris >> though it doesn't require an action on our part to the draft because it's already in the draft. Is that correct?
>> It it would actually have to be reduced from 42 to 40. Um, the same applies to the uh to the wallpaper and interior uh painting which is right above it. I had that at 42. If we can drop that to
40, we can do that as well. >> And the um the gas pump I have at 15750. Uh so if that's going to be 15. >> Yeah. Can you just keep that at 15750 because I got a solid price on that through a vendor.
>> All right. So, so it seems like it's either budget neutral or being a a reduction. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Chris, state it again. I'm gonna I'm going to ask for the council to move it as a motion for the uh for the uh for altering the draft. Go ahead.
>> So, the the draft uh for public safety wallpaper removal and interior painting, that's going to go from 42,000 down to 40,000. the uh public safety building ceiling tiles, that's going to go from 42,000 down to 40,000.
And the public safety building floors, which I think we already did, is going from on the draft it was 210 to to 160,000. >> Okay. So, just just so that we don't have any problems, could I have a motion and second to uh approve these
alterations of the draft? >> So, move second. Is there debate >> what what's what would the new flooring be? I'm I'm curious how we're saving 40 or 50,000 or just >> So I was able to So at the time I was
going around to other vendors pretty much co-ops and getting the vendors um who are either in a source well contract, a state contract, county contract or just outside vendors to give me a price that were in no contract. Um,
at the end after this doc was submitted to Chris, actually within the last three weeks, um, I had a phone conversation with Floren Concepts, who's a federal vendor that actually did the firehouse. They finally got back to me and they
came and estimated the floor out to be at 160. >> So, BT or what? What? >> What's up? >> What's the flooring? >> Well, it's there's going to be three types of flooring. So, in the basement, we're going to do I I was talking with the chief to make sure he was okay with
it. In the processing room, some of the areas are going to be epoxy in the staircase, the basement, and the processing room. Some areas are going to be rug um in the offices, and some area are going to be laminate just like the burrow hall has in the open areas like
the hallways. And >> thank you. >> Okay. Just I was just curious. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. Okay. So, we've been moved and seconded. We've had a question. Is there more debate or question? If not, all in favor, please say I. >> I.
>> Any opposed? Any abstension? We have one abstension. Uh, Councilwoman Monsan Cohen is currently off the deis. She will return in a minute, but for the uh sake of the vote that she is an abstension. All right, Jason, keep going. >> All right. And then next uh area is
emergency capital funds. Chris, the next page. These are funds that we're always putting in place year-over-year. These are for uh sewer repairs that are unexpected and for burrow buildings that are outside the OE budget. So, if
there's a pump that fails, uh a water separator pump and company one or two, if there's um anything that happens with roofing falling in, this line picks it up. um that obviously is over um what my
my operating could handle. Um so that's a year overyear costs. >> Keep going. >> All right. So let's go to storm drain sewer line. So
there's two one. There's two here. Um what is that for? Oh, wait. Sorry. So, this is a line that's optional besides the last two years. Um, you've had a resident that lives on Lake View come in
front of the council talking about an easement that is between Lake View and Bogurt. Um, that is flooding his backyard. Um, talking with our burough engineer and I know next week we have our attorney getting involved in this
situation. Um, this would be funds to help if there's any thing that they decide to do in either putting in a drain or >> any other. It's pretty much putting a a putting together a little bit of an
account um just in case something has to be done there um to relieve the flooding in the backyards or what will be done. And then next one is Yep. Keep going. tree replacement. Chris,
>> tree replacement. So, this is this is where we were talking about um off of uh Joe's line. So, we approved a the council approved a five-year forestry plan that has to be submitted and and adopted or approved by the state forestry division. We have that in right
now. And in that plan, we have to show our 30 thou at least 30,000 worth of trees. That was our average with the town removed. So that's trees that are on the curb lines, not residential trees. So we also have to show the
replacement plan um with that. Now we do get a lot this might not be spent all the way down year-over-year because we do get assistance once in a while from DOT grants that would help assist us not using this money, but it has to be in
place as per our forestry plan. Uh Chris are miscellaneous repairs. >> You just keep going. We'll tell you once you stop go to questions and comments. >> Yeah. So miscellaneous repairs. There was a couple people that were wondering
if we can continue the decoration that we've done up Bogurt Road on uh the Burrow Hall since that's now all done. So I came up with uh $20,000 um for that. that will put the lights like at fire company one that they have
that change all different colors. So if it's gun awareness, it could be orange. If somebody there's a funeral or somebody passes, it could be um purple or Christmas or any of those. And then some wreaths and everything else. Um the the the
decorative light poles. So throughout the burrow, River Edge, PSEG owns some of them and the town owns some of them. Um the ones that the town owns um are old uh fluorescent bulbed uh lamps
that are no longer serviceable. Um we've had uh licensed contractors come out. They're just so rotted at the base. So we have to start replacing them. Um each head costs $4,000. That's not the pole. That's just the
head. Um, so what I would like to start doing, um, we're doing this year through an insurance claim, we're able to do seven heads on River Edge Road. I would like to update the ones down by Company
2 on Aerson and eventually um, replace the ones in front of uh, 7-Eleven on the north and south end. So that's that's what that 20,000's for. >> Okay. Anything else,
>> Chris? That's supposed to be 20,000. Oh, I'm sorry. I I reversed them. It's 20,000 for the decorative lamps, 15,000 for the uh decorations to the burl hall. >> Okay. Um >> and that's it. That's the whole capital.
>> Okay. We're going to go first to uh uh Chris, if you could uh return it to a full screen. >> Okay. Any member from the citizen budget committee who has a question or a comment? >> Joe, just on the uh Jason on that bus, the
the senior citizens bus. >> Yes. >> So the 150,000 is what we're going to need out of capital or is that we don't need anything out of capital because you're using old bond money. So Chris, go ahead. I'll let Chris explain that how we close the accounts.
>> Yeah, it it will technically be part of the bond ordinance. It will be part of capital, but we'll be doing simultaneously we'll be cancelling old balances. So we're not going to be authorizing new debt. That's the probably the best uh explanation for it.
>> Right. So that 150,000 is uh uh accumulation of old bonds. Correct. Effectively, we're just reappropriating old balances, but you'll see two separate uh pieces of legislation. One is an ordinance to adopt, >> right, right,
>> for the bus and the other is against the old balances. >> Okay. And just so you that the council knows and the budget committee um we've been going through me and Chris have been going through and with Lazette um and looking at all these old accounts or what we could close out and how we could
offset a lot of the emergency sort of aspects of what we have to purchase. >> Okay. Uh anything else, Greg? >> I'm good. Thank you. Uh Joe, >> thank you, Mayor. Hello, Jason. Hey Joe, how you doing?
>> Good. How are you? >> Good. >> Uh, I had a question about the page uh concerning storm drains and sewer line replacement. >> Okay. >> Uh, with the years 2028 and 2029, I see that the plan is to replace the same
stretch of the oak ditch from Howland to Wayne. I assumed that that was uh >> No. So what happens is it's it's it that's really a placeholder that could be moved or or it could be taken out or
left in. What what we're left with is the backyard. So OKAV goes all the way from Valley Road in a wide open ditch to Wayne. So those So it's going to take a couple years in each section to start
I guess um fixing the embankments of these of this waterway. Um the problem we having that we addressed is about three years ago valley road we had to replace walls egg walls off a valley and
as we were going up we noticed a lot of embankment was starting to erode up the stream. Um, so what we have to do is eventually bring in a company to start remediating or veing the structure out, putting rip wrap in, some felt felt
fabric, and go right up the ditch to make it secure with fencing and everything else in the people's backyards because eventually if you get floods, since that's a main artery for water to go out, you're going to start getting backyards
washed away. So, this is in there to start the process. It's going to be a multi-year process just to get up to Howland from Valley. So, this is something the council I wanted to put in front of the council so they understand that this is going to
have to be done eventually. Um, but it's it's right now there's there's no immediate here today. >> So, of the the the sides go collapsing. >> Okay. Thank you. I have to say, you know, everybody could see when there's a
snowstorm and our roads are clear, right? Everyone sees that, but nobody sees the behind the scenes, the planning that takes place over the course of years to get us to where we are now. So, thank you for that. >> No problem. No problem. >> I want to jump in here for a second and
talk about um what Jason was just saying, the money that we're putting aside for these uh embankments. We had an emergency uh on Valley because of a failed um head wall due to erosion because of sudden storms. Um and it cost
us a tremendous amount. Um so being proactive will save the citizens of River Edge more money uh than if we just wait until they fail. and having them fail is not really an option because now we're we're basically washing away um
we're not wa we are not doing it but the but the failure would lead to a washing away of people's um property private property and that that enters us into another whole liability legal question so this is this is money well spent and I want I'm saying that really more for
the public than for any of you who might be watching this um we we have to consider the long-term term effects and the possibility of a of a failure and so the capital capital um expenditure is is actually going to save people money um
though it may not seem that way right now. Thank you Jason. Uh, anyone else from citizen budget committee want to ask a question or make a comment >> from the council? >> We checking anyone else's virtual public or
>> we've already done that. If you looked at the agenda, we opened to the public uh at the beginning for public comments. >> Um, just everybody else who knows on the council, I just want to lay this out. when you do plan, like the mayor said, it's a lot cheaper because when you
start bringing in excavators and everything on an emergency basis, >> price is like double. So, I just want everybody to understand that. >> Yeah, it's it's a tremendous expense. Uh, okay. Anyone from the council comment or question?
>> Oh, Jason, I have a question on the capital replacement plan for roads. The I don't see Boger Road on the 2026. I thought that was the plan. >> So, Bogurt Road is you're you're going to get curbs and sidewalks completed. I
believe that's going to go up to I think that goes up to Adams and then next year they'll be finishing it. Um that is a grantable street. So, we will not be using capital to fund that street. That will be funded under a grant whether it's this year. I believe
that's being put into the 2026, right? because 25 was um section 10 I believe that gets up to Adams. I think that's either being put into 20 26 or 27 um DOT grant. I would have to look at my
notes and records on that. >> Chris is >> uh Oh, Chris, go ahead. Yeah, I was actually just gonna going to add before we move past uh Jason's capital, the the two at the very bottom of the of the capital sheets that you
have, they're not on his document because they are grants, was we are appropriating the 2025 DOT grant, that's Bogot Road section 10. Um the only portion that we're covering is the engineering, the section 20 cost, and any outside duty related to the project.
The rest of it will be covered through grant funding. And also underneath that is the CDBG grant for ADA bathroom upgrades. Um, again, we would be covering the section 20 costs. Um, and the rest of it is covered under a grant. So, I don't know if we're going to get
to that later, but I didn't want that to be a surprise because that will be an ordinance. Generally, it's a separate ordinance uh when it's when it's uh funded through the grants. >> Okay. Any question from any member of council or from
the citizen budget committee? We're doing really well. Um Jason, is there anything more you want to bring before this body? >> No, mayor. I believe that's that's all of it. Um >> very good. Thank you. We'll now move on to uh uh well, do we need to take a
fivem minute break? Anybody? >> Please. >> Let's just do a five minute break. We're going to reconvene at 11:30 and then we're going to go straight to the library. Uh we return to order. There will be a slight change. Uh Darl, we're just going to have the uh administrative budget and
um capital. Uh it shouldn't take us but a moment. So we're going to just >> Okay. >> It was not put in the agenda, but uh so that was just a slight uh uh oversight. Um, madame administrator, >> yes, I only have uh two items in my
capital budget. Um, $5,000 listed for computers and IT equipment. Our um IT consultant recommends that we always have on hand based um on the cost of
computer equipment $12,500. In the event there's failures for computers, a whole bunch have to be replaced. issues with monitors, um server, um if somebody needs a um not a laptop that's operating, uh a webcam for
for the training and whatnot. So, since we still have a pretty good balance, all I am requesting for this year is $5,000. And um with document scanning, we had started this in 2021. In 2022, we have a
scanning company come in uh reorganize our records, which makes it easier for to follow records retention and um destroy records with state permission. And that that's passed its retention life. And also what they do is scan um
building department documents. And what we're trying to do is also land use documents. So um that way they are easily searchable for oper requests or for um new property owners wanting to know what has happened in in their property and you know blocks and lots
have changed. For example land use when it was planning board those records are categorized by year not by property. So when uh we receive an opra request is very labor intensive to try to look for for these documents. So this is just to
modernize and as they scan it, anything that any paper that can be destroyed, they let us know. We go through the state process and and we destroy the records um accordingly. And as I mentioned, if
um if the recreation director cannot obtain a vehicle from the existing fleet, I'm willing to reduce the scanning and just extend the program an additional year. >> Okay. uh question. Actually, since you're very small, why don't we go to
your uh operating and then we'll do questions uh and comments. >> There's no changes in my operating. No significance. >> See how beautiful that is. Okay, great. >> Okay. Uh first to the uh committee, any member of the committee who'd like to ask question, make a comment.
>> Yeah. If um if the uh wreck vehicle doesn't work out with a uh pre-owned vehicle or original vehicle and lette you're going to take 30 grand out of that 55, would that remaining balance at least get you to do something?
>> Yes, it will help um get us started with land use records. >> Okay, that's all. Okay. Any other member from the committee council comment question
hearing? None. We >> I just have one question. Sure. >> Regarding the document scanning, this is for the building department. This is something you said we started in 2021. >> Yes. >> So the cost which is $55,000 has been going on since 2021.
>> Um I think it was about >> Has it increased decreased? Well, the first year it wasn't building department scanning. It was going through a whole bunch of documents that were in the attic that was weighing the original building down and and causing a
lot of the the structural problems and they went and helped reorganize records and then the scanning started in 2022. It's a lot of documents. The plans are very large. Um, you know, a lot of properties have a lot of permitting
done. So that was about 50 555,000 and then we we pause since we were offsite and not to cause any further disruption and I always put in those budgets will resume upon completion of all right no it's a great process to like digitize
and introducing all that paper but the cost is why is the cost different in all these five years that you've listed or couple of years that you've listed um um have you thought like from 55 to 50 to 45 like Why why would that difference? >> Because we're doing the bulk now to get
as much done as possible and then we'll eventually be done with scanning everything. Any new applications um new files that come in, it'll be nominal. >> So after the bulk is done with the third party, it's done by the third party.
Right. Right. >> It's done by Yes. It it's being done by a third party because of the size of it's not just the quantity or the size of the documents. It has to be scanned in a program that's not a regular PDF. The state requires a PDF A and um to be
accepted as a digital record. So like you know when an scans the agenda to you and it's a PDF file that's not an approved state file for records retention. So she has to hold on to the paper file. >> Yeah, I understand. But maybe the maybe
the the project is bigger right now because it has just started couple of years. Yes. >> After down after a couple of like let's say two years when the third party's done most of it. Can this be done inhouse? >> Not with no because that we don't have
the capability to scan plants. You need a very large machine. >> So a blueprint can be this one. >> But it will not be this figure. It will be much less. >> So it will be more would be less like 2030 says 40 pi but it'll always be
there. It'll always be there. So probably in 20 31 32 you'll see it go down to 20 and then just probably be stagnant at 10. >> Thank you. >> Doesn't time when the debt goes down and then have to borrow again.
>> Those will be the glory days. Um does this vendor charge a flat fee? How do they charge for the scanning? >> They charge um a fee per box of records. So they see what type of record it is like um the fee they charge for like
planning and and building department records is different where as opposed to like if it's just raffle applications or election. >> So it's based on what's in the box or it's per box whatever is inside the box. You tell them what department it is and
building and land use because of what's inside the box documents is one rate as opposed if I say scan recreation documents it'll be a different rate because it's not as complex doesn't need a special machine. >> Do we have a sense of how much of each
is left to do? building department we just started in 2022 and it's constantly building and they I think it was 40 boxes that went out >> and there were a couple of years where nothing was done >> nothing but not was done because we were
disrupted. Um >> has anyone looked into the cost of a large scanner that can accommodate these? I can't imagine that it would cost tens of thousands of dollars. There's also labor cost if we do that.
They have to hire someone to do that. >> Yeah. >> And we don't have the space for a high a large capacity scanner for for plans. And the programming also like I said it can't be a regular PDF. It has to be a state approved PDFA.
>> And then the state what the C company does they petitions the state and say look these are the records that we have digitized. And the state gives a certificate of approval. So I assume now when applicants make
submitts it has to be a PDF day >> for the land use to consider. >> No no >> do that so we don't have to do it so they do it. >> I don't think they have access to it. It's a it's a specialized program. >> I guess we could consider it. We'd have
to research whether it's something that can be done. It's it's basically a controlled PDF that can't be altered. So I don't know if the general public has access to that. We can certainly uh we could we what we want to do is ask the land use board to consider that first
instead of the council or administration. >> So that and they then Miss Brown would be the >> Okay. >> to determine you know. >> Okay. Great. >> And if it's something we can do and it's cost effective, >> right? Okay.
Uh, Greg, >> uh, just real quick to, uh, back up what Lzette is saying, I don't know how many people on this panel or on the council were ever up in the attic of the old Burough Hall, >> especially when Alan Negron was up there with his glasses down at the bridge of
his nose looking for something, the fire load in that attic was incredible along with the weight load. So, if we have to scan a lot of that stuff, it's going to take quite some time and pretty expensive. So, >> yeah. Any further questions or comments? Yes,
please. At page seven, line 8140, TV meetings, you requested $10,000. >> Seven. >> Oh, that's >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Which line is that? uh 140 on top of
page seven. >> Okay, that is because of the maintenance contract and support for all this equipment that we just installed. Um the estimate was about almost $9,000. >> Okay.
And on page 35, line 017, stipens, is that added somewhere else? Is there zero and you spent almost 4,500 there? >> We it's it's part of it's budgeted in in the part-time number. Uh that's for the that's for the construction office. Um
that that amount is the uh 0 12 line. It's yeah, it's budgeted in in 012, but we do charge it separately just to keep track of it. Those are the inspections that are outside of um like
the normal number of inspections that we pay for on a salary. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions from the council or the committee? All right, Lette and um and thank you.
Um Dara, >> hi, Mr. Mayor. How's it going? >> Wonderful. And yourself? >> Good, good, good, good. Uh first things first, I wanted to thank you for squeezing us in um instead of next weekend. >> Well, we're hoping there will be no next
weekend. So, we're hoping that you are concise >> and I don't think um I'll take too too much time because uh you know our budget's very straightforward. It's based on um minimum funding level which is uh we call a third of a mill which is
a calculation that is under state law. It's based on the value of the property in the town municipality. And then there's also a maximum funding level which we never get to discuss because there's no danger of the liies budget
going up 15% in any given year. So um so our third of went up significantly. So that's why you see a significant increase in the library's operating budget uh in the bottom line basically.
Um, so we hope to use that extra money to do some of the things we've needed to do and wanted to do like more digital content and lots of new books. So I've only just started a discussion
with the library board as to how we might do that. Uh, we had a discussion on Tuesday evening. We will discuss more deeply as the year progresses and we'll come up with a budget for the rest of the year.
>> Which pages library? Sorry. >> Page 106 and 107. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Darra, anything else >> that you'd like to say? >> Um well, just the the bathroom thing. We're going to get a renovation in the
bathrooms this year, but that's not a capital item apparently. It's uh grant funded. >> Yes. >> So, I'm happy to take questions on the library's operating budget. >> Okay, great. Um, so, uh, for the
public's benefit, the library is a statutory requirement. If you have a library, for how much you're going to fund it, we are meeting that statutory requirement. Um but the library itself is run by the board. The board is appointed by the mayor and council. Uh
but that board is independent uh uh as it in in its functioning in the library within the walls of the library are also somewhat quasi independent. Um so we fund their budget and they determine how to spend it. So all hiring and firing,
all uh decisions about uh what they're going to spend money on, whether it's digital content or paper content or or from that point on uh is is uh under their jurisdiction. So having just said that for the public's benefit uh I would go do you want me to go I was going to
go first to the uh committee. >> I was just going to make a statement. Sure. Go ahead. With regards to the budget um due to the fact and uh this is was passed by the uh finance committee that um we In the in the current budget,
we have uh kept the um 100 390 100 flat at 138 256 uh due to the fact that the third of a mill went up almost $100,000 to the library. >> So that's that's the reason for that. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. And that and that's okay. it. We, you know, the library board will will probably be able to move some money from um that you see currently in full-time and part-time salaries and wages um because there's there's room there.
>> Got it. I just wanted to let everybody know that. >> Okay. So, first uh the committee u budget committee. Any members wish to make a comment or ask a question? >> Council, any comments or questions? This is wonderful.
>> I just have one question where >> on Sorry. >> No, that's okay. You're >> page 109. Is this I uh is this >> I don't know that that's budget library. >> That's that's what department >> recreation. >> Okay. I just need to know that.
>> Okay. >> Um any member of council have a question or comment? >> I just want to correct myself. I said um and um councilwoman um Malari pointed out I said 138 256. It should be 138610
being the number as the budget. >> Sorry about that. >> No worries. No worries. All right. Uh Dara, thank you for coming. Uh we appreciate it. Um I believe that we have completed our task. Um
>> Chris, anything that uh that we did not cover or that you were concerned about? Uh nothing that we didn't cover. Um the only thing I just want to you know run this by everybody from a calendar perspective if we're not going to have
the next meeting um it's it's not going to push up our introduction because the next normal meeting I think is the 12th but that would be too soon. So we're still looking to introduce our budget on March 26th. Uh and then we would have the adoption the public hearing and
adoption 28 days later on the 23rd. And as we've already mentioned, there may be some minor changes that are being discussed between the departments and we've we've already uh agreed that we understand that. Keep going, Chris. >> Yeah. And so uh that that would be the
budget uh item and then the the bond ordinance. I'll work with bond council to put it together once we have the uh answers to uh some of those questions. >> Excellent. Uh Ken, >> yeah, I know we didn't have uh a lot of
cuts today, but my question to Chris is did he track the math and did we move the needle at all? >> Uh well, yes. So on on the on the operating budget, we had increases. Uh the total is about 157.
So we're at 4.57% increase versus the 4 um 4.47 47 increase that we started with. Um on the capital, however, we reduced the total from 2,681 down to
2,457. So that's a $224,000 reduction in the total uh in the total capital projects. >> And Chris, what's that do for the average taxpayer for the layman's explanation? >> Uh well, on the capital side, it's it's
really a question of future debt, right? So that's that over the next 10 years we won't be paying uh debt on on you know principal and interest on $224,000. Um the you know the advertised cost of that is not material but when you aggregate that year-over-year um you
know it could be substantial on the operating budget year the the change was about $4 on the average taxpayer. Um the only the only thing I'll say right now is that the um the amounts that are on the tax impact sheet um we have the
average residential assessment at $718,000. That's an estimate. Our final numbers still aren't available because of the way that our reassessment is working. Um but once that's updated, I I'll send out a revision. Um but that's the that's the
estimated number for the average uh residential assessment. Ken, anything else? >> Uh, no sir. Thanks. >> Ken, I I want to pick up on on uh what you had said that we didn't have a lot of cuts. We didn't have a lot of cuts because one of the things that um the
council and I decided on um a couple of months ago was we're we were going to stop doing a bloated especially given this year's uh healthc care increases that we knew about the 37% increase. We were going to stop creating a b bloated budget and cut down. Well, we did did
instead we tked the finance committee and the department heads which creating an essential budget. So we told them they need to cut for themselves and they need to cut quickly and uh present that to the finance committee and then there was a back and forth with the CFO and
the burough administrator. And so uh instead of when it originally I think it was I think you said it was 5.6 5.7 which is a substantial amount they were able to get it down to 4.47. Uh then this review and opportunities
for the department heads to make their presentation ticked it up just a slight amount. Uh we wish we didn't have to do this, but with 37% or about $450,000 in health uh benefits all by itself uh that
are are out of control, BCUA, which is Bergen County Utility Authority, out of which is beyond our control, uh and so many other outside forces raising the budget uh including um you know the
overall increase or inflationary rate uh due to a lot of different factors. Um, this is not where we'd want to be, but I I think I I want to commend the finance committee. I want to commend the budget
citizens budget committee. I want to commend the council and I very much want to commend department heads and administrators uh for all that they did. Uh, as you saw, every single uh, one of our our department heads and administrators were looking at saying,
"Okay, I need a few more dollars here, so let's cut it from there." Um, while while at the same time not cutting so much that we'd end up with a um, erratic budget in future years that could have such a detrimental impact upon our
residents. Um, and we used as much surplus as was prudent and we're still create keeping our credit rating. Chris, what's our current credit rating? >> Uh, it's double A minus. Um, it's uh, actually, you know what? Let me I think
we we changed. >> Are we double A+? >> Uh, give me one second. >> Sure. So all these things they they come together with uh which is a product of frugal budgeting which is something we've been doing for for for many years.
Again I always do a shout out to Alard Alone to Ed Minan to Veto Aquafera who spearheaded some of the changes we did. um they were they they the council was in full support, but they came up with ideas of creating a little bit more of
an um responsible budget than other municipalities do. Um and we I have to commend this council over the number of years we had a essentially a $3 million renovation. There is a town two towns
away that did a $25 million. So if if you according to my wife Marie Math, we saved $22,000. $22 million because we didn't spend what other people spend. Um u plus
>> double A plus. Yeah. And that helps us too in so many ways and keeps costs down. So if there is um if there is no further business, I will allow for brief comments. Is there any member of u of of the citizens budget committee would like
to offer a brief comment? Al >> uh again very briefly um it looks like we're going to get a bump in our taxes because it's going to happen. I guess you know we still have the schools that are going to come in >> uh with the um that there's also been a
change in the assessment and that that change has not only happened last year but it's also happening again this year. Um, I would just suggest to the mayor and council that they do a little maybe PR work for the uh the town to help them
understand what's going on and how much work you put into this u because it's going to be there's going to be a lot of moaning and groaning and people don't understand how it happens and they just blame everybody.
>> We actually have done regular PR on this. we can do. We can re-educate the public and we did put it in letters and we did explain that in order to create a uh a fair and reasonable assessment that we were going to that there's a reassessment every year for the next
five years uh till 2029 and it's 20%. So that what happens is those people who are building don't get an unexpected uh benefit to building where the people who are not building are covering their
equalized tax burden. Um but instead we're we're reevaluating 20% of the town each year. So but yes absolutely I hear what you're saying. We agree. Um but just so you know we have been doing this on a regular basis. letters keep going
out. We put in but of course sometimes people miss it and so we can we can always do better. We can always do better. Anything else Al? >> Yeah just just to comment on your comment. I I don't disagree with you >> but I I think that there that this needs
to be a continuing operation I if you know if that's what you want to do. I mean, it's there are a lot of people that are concerned about it and have a a general misunderstanding of how the whole process works. So, take it for
what it's worth. >> No, I appreciate it and I agree with you wholeheartedly. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else? Yeah, just to just to explain that, Al, I think, you know, years ago when we you and I were on the committee a thousand years ago when we came up with this pie
chart and if the advertisement that the mayor and council have done for years is you should read your damn pie chart. So the pie chart is an average household 1617,000 in taxes pays about $4,400 in of that
portion goes to our budget in the town. Right? That's for everything these guys on the top screen here or side screen depending upon how it displays on you have come up with. And these are things that you know I my uh friends in TV land
don't want to come to this thing and understand that we're down to quality of life decisions. >> Yeah. >> You know, toner cartridge, paper cartridges, all that stuff like Mike uh Chief Mike talked about. That stuff's gone. Hey, we're we're not sitting on a
boatload of paper in the hallway. Um, now it's a question of, you know, hey, we could tell Jason, don't show up, right? Stay within your budget. You start, you know, leaf pickup and snow removal at 8:00 and you end at 5 like
you're supposed to, right? >> But we don't. We do the right thing by the town and the town's people at those numbers. So, it really is important for the average American in this town to read
their pie chart and understand where 67.7% of your household taxes go to and make decisions on whether you want to challenge that portion of the pie as opposed to this ch portion of the pie.
You >> you make an excellent point. Um in fact it's um it's um we are at really represent 25 26% depending on the year of the overall uh tax bill. We must
collect it all. We are obligated under f state law statute to collect for uh for the school for the county um and and such. But uh and we have to u transfer that money upon demand to the school and
to the county. But for this, you know, we you you get a ple a 24-hour police force. You get a 20 essentially a 24-hour DPW. You get a wreck program where we've increased the programming. You um get a um administrative staff
that is responsive and really tries to um use a customer service model as well as our police department or DPW. We have a fire department next to none. Incredible. uh in it's uh it's been recognized by the county and it's mostly
volunteers but this equipment costs money and safety counts. We um and we have uh the library doing a phenomenal job with programming all these things. Am I leaving anything out? >> Great parks. >> Great parks. Yes. We have all these parks that are available to our young
families and and to our older kids um and to our seniors. Um, so you're right, you know, um, we are we are really only 25% 26% of the overall tax bill. Uh, 67
of it is is the two school districts that we have, the River Edge and the Riverdale. And um, and we have done everything in our power over the last 14 years to cut away the fat. We're down to an essential budget right now >> and very safe safe community
>> and extremely safe community. I'm constantly being recognized in either uh state or nationally as a top 100 towns in we got we got recognized as top 100 towns to live in in um in in New Jersey,
top 300 towns to live in the United States. U very safe, walkable. Um and to Jason's credit, I want to call him out right now. He has worked at getting us to a point in the next two or three
years we will no longer be doing catchup with our capital with our equipment or our buildings. They will all we will now be at a point where we won't be saying okay something's about to break. Hopefully we it won't cost too much. Um
so um really wonderful job. Uh, thank you to everyone, to our chiefs, to our superintendent, to our administrators, um, to the council, to the council and to the budget committee. So, thank you, Ken, for saying that. I really, really appreciate that. And but thank you, Al, for reminding us that we we have a
constant obligation for a PR. So, we do. We do. Uh, anyone else from the Citizens Budget Committee? Yes, Joe. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I conveyed this to you earlier this week. uh in reviewing this budget in preparation for this
meeting, I I said to you earlier, there's no fluff in this budget. Okay? I said, I don't know where we're going to cut anything. Okay? We found a few places, but realistically, this was a barebones budget to try and lessen the
tax burden on the taxpayer of River, right? >> And I commend you for that, mayor and council. uh our department heads, especially Jason and Chief Walker, you did a great job not only in budgeting for this year, but also in your planning
for future years of budgeting so that you know we don't have those erratic raises in taxes. Very important. Um you know, our budget committee or the other members of the citizen budget committee, um great work and of course our burough
administrator and our CFO. Thank you for all your hard work. Thank you for saying that. Uh thank you Al. Thank you uh Ken. Thank you um Joe. Thank you Greg. Um and um council comments any
>> Thank you mayor for getting us through this quickly. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> I try to be next Saturday. >> Thank you for saving me. >> We really appreciate the effort and the leadership that our council uh president put into >> getting this thing done. Yes. said to you.
>> And really, I gotta say, I'm kind of echoing what everyone already said, but the department heads made it easy this year >> because they just they did what they're great at. You know, they cut everything to the bow and they presented budgets that were well thought out and
reasonable and provided the services we need in this burrow at the cheapest cost possible and that made our job easier. So, thank you guys for that. Uh I want to echo uh the thanks to our uh council president who's also our
finance chair and budget chair as well as to the budget and finance committee for their great work. David, thank you. Thank you very much, Liana. Um last words, council president. >> Oh, really? >> If you wish.
Um, again echoing everyone's uh thoughts is thank you to everyone who um who made this a lot easier than last year and uh Claudiana and Dave can attest to that as well as Chrisette. Compared to last
year, this year was a breeze. >> So, thank you to all the department heads. >> Well, we started nine minutes late due to technical difficulties and we're ending at four minutes after. So I think we saved five minutes there. >> Yeah. >> And one day
>> could I have a motion in a second to uh and oh Chris, I don't think I said it enough. Thanks for everything you do. Uh I know our department heads especially uh have have complimented you but great job everyone and I look forward to seeing you all again next year. Motion
second to adjurnn. >> So moved. Second. >> All in favor please say I. >> Okay. >> We are adjourned. >> Thank you. >> Hey everybody. Have a good weekend. You too.