Okay. All right. I call to order the mayor meeting of the mayor and council of Bur River Edge May 22nd, 2022 regular meeting River Edge Library at the River Edge Library 685 um Avenue 7 p.m. and also on Zoom which
will then go to YouTube. I ask everyone to stand for a moment of uh silent inflection uh in regards to all peoples throughout the world who are suffering um via terrorist attacks as well as all
people who are starving and hungry. Council President Monsano, would you lead us in a flag salute? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Uh statement of compliance with the open public meeting act. This meeting complies with the open public meeting act by notification on january 6, 2025 with it location, date and time
and to the town news and the record and by posting of the same on the municipal bulletin board in the burough website and following notice of the same with the municipal clerk. Madame clerk, roll call, please. Council President Monttoano Cohen here.
Councilwoman Canella here. Councilwoman Malari here. Councilman Benson here. Councilman Glass here. Councilwoman Darwal here. Mayor Papileo here. Okay.
Uh could I have a motion and second to approve the minutes of the mayor and council regular meeting on April 10th, 2025 close session and close session April 24th, 2025. So moved. Second. All in favor please say I. I. I. Are there
any abstensions or opposed? I I need to abstain. I wasn't present for both. Correct. Very good then. All right then. Um we have presentations up. The first is the burrow entrance bid results. Mr.
Costa, if you can come forward um and identify yourself for the public record, that'd be great. Absolutely. Thank you. Uh Jason, you want to come up? Yes. If you both can identify yourself when you be when you're seated. Rob, you can start now by identifying yourself. Sure.
Uh for the record, Robert Lewis Cost. I'm the town engineer in this fantastic town of the Burough River Eds. Good evening everybody. Florence, she's passing out the actual bid results. Is a professional
engineer with me for many years. So he's an associate. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Just for the public record. Um so as the uh as your mayor and the council and obviously the
attorney and was said we went out to bid for the uh for this project on I can't think of theation first the second the low bidder at that time it
was April 10th% thank you the low bid at that time did not have the proper paperwork the bids were rejected and rebid Um, we rebid the project, excuse me, on uh May 13th, they were opened. Out of, I believe, 10 individuals that picked up
the the bids, only two biders actually bid on it and actually submitted bids. In front of you tonight are the two bids. And basically, two of the firms, Lasal, which was the low bid on the original bid, and AA BMS also rebided
again. and roughly 70 762,000 uh from the original bid that was 674,000 so roughly and it's 88,000 $88,000
increase and just for the public record the next highest bid I believe is 94,000 thereabouts Yes. And in the previous packet the uh there were a total of three or four that bid three uh
four and the third one was about I remember the fourth one was 2.4 million right the fourth one was extremely yeah the fourth one was around like 2.4 4 million, right? I think the second one was like around 950 960,000
and then Okay. So, um so simply for the public's understanding, um and at the time we had to reject the bid because it was uh there was a a how do you call it a fault? Um it was a fatal fatal flaw in
the actual bid because the uh they did not have the documentation for the public works contractor registration certificate. So what I'm doing simply now is setting for the public an understanding of where we're where we're at and why we're here. Okay. So then um under open public's
Lette and and John under open public uh bidding laws uh they we had to reject. So we rejected them all and we uh went back out to bid again. Um the flaw that occurred with Lasal, they were able to
correct it. Correct. Um but uh and and they happened to be the lowest bid again. Correct. And the second lowest also happens to be the second lowest again. Correct. Okay. No, the second lowest was the third lowest. The first
Yes. Okay. DNL was the second one was the second and DNL decided not to bid on it this time. Very good. Okay. So, um so that's puts everything in context. Um Mr. Costa continue. Then there's one more line item in the uh in the handout
that was given out and that shows the increase and decrease from Lasal's bid. So if you go to item number two, which is clearing site, he raised it by $10,000, I believe. So 43% more than the original bid. And if you go down those
columns, you'll see what was increased decrease to get you to the additional $88,000. Okay. Mr. Chasa, do you wish to comment on the increases decreases of Lasowl and or the process in general or the second
highest current? I guess at this point the council can do one of two things. one, we can you guys can reject if you want to and then you can sit down and negotiate with these two biders if that that is what you would like to do. Um, you could say don't do that and you
could reject them and go out to bid one more time if you'd like to, I believe. Correct. No, this is seven bit. See there's no negotiation. Okay. Then you got to negotiate. That would be your only option. Okay. Now,
um the adjustments they made, uh given your history in um in construction and engineering and state of New Jersey and bids, are the uh changes they made reasonable or unreasonable? Uh can you
go um uh through that to some degree? I think I think they took a closer look at what they bid on the first goaround and again we had an allowance in the first goaround and I think they thought that was money that they they were allowed to keep and not do. So I think when they
started looking at all of that um one that popped up was the flag poles. The flag poles I think were bid at $500 which you can't even buy the flag pole for $500. So I think so that was they are you saying that in your professional opinion you perceive that they realized
that that was an error in their bid 100%. And so they corrected it. They corrected. Did they correct it to what would be current market value? High low in the middle to the best of your ability. Correct. Current not high not low. No. All right. Keep going. Um and
again so with that it's it this is this is the risk you run and this is what happened to us in BOD many years ago. Bagota bid a uh a community center came in the the bid actually came in low. Actually was the same contractor that
actually did the burrow hall here. They rejected the bids. They went back out to bid. The bids came in higher. Then they sat down and negotiated and could not get to a number that they wanted to. So the that's the risk if you reject. You know what you have now. Can you read the
Mr. Mr. Glass? I was just going to say something for a minute. No, Mr. Glass. No, we'll we'll get to the council in a second. Right now, we're receiving testimony from our experts. If you wish to challenge that, you absolutely have that opportunity. But right now, we're asking for testimony. If you feel the
testimony is false or needs to be corrected, that would be uh that would be something you can and should do, but we're going to allow our professionals to speak first. Go ahead, Mr. So again, the risk you run is if you negotiate and they they don't want to lower their
bid, you're in the same spot you're in. Or they could say, "Now, we're not interested whatsoever," I would imagine, and walk away. Now this would u this would now be something Mr. Are you in agreement with what Mr. Costa is saying?
Is that correct as far as negotiation? Yes. Okay. And Lizette, are you in agreement with what he says so far? Yes. All right, Mr. Costa. Um I believe Councilman Glass wants to ask a question. Is there any more testimony you want to give before I open it to the council? I think that's it, mayor and
council. I mean that it's your choice on how you want to proceed at this point. That's that's your options in my opinion. Councilman Glass, uh questions, comments? Yeah. Thanks, Mayor. You know, it's really just a quick thing. Sure. When you rebid
something, obviously the lowest bidder sees everyone else's bid. Yes. Right. So that opens it's an open book. Mhm. He's always going to that that if you rebid something, the lowest bare always comes in audit.
It's just the way you know market sense finances. I would like to ask um Mr. Costa um this is you know three quarters of a
million dollars. it is to rip off um existing borrow entry um you responded to a lot of our questions and I thank you for that. Um the driver for this is ADA comp a lot
a big part of the driver for the for the front entrance work is ADA compliant. Obviously there's other work here and that's a big part of the cost as well. Um but I I believe the ADA compliance part ripping up the whole
existing front entrance of the burough hall represents a big part of the cost. Um I don't think we we broke it down to that number. I mean, we certainly can or could. I'm not asking you to. My question is, is there
another alternative that would result in significant savings to the burrow? And I know you guys looked at this, but I just want to ask one final time. um you know while we're in person face to face. There's no way to build a, you know,
aesthetically reasonable, decent looking ramp without ripping up the sidewalk, ripping up all the trees, ripping up all the existing pavers, ripping up all the mature landscaping, ripping up all the existing planters, and providing ADA compliance
access from the sidewalk, from the parking lot by building a, like I said, reasonably aesthetically pleasing ramps and saving the burrow hundreds of thousands of dollars. Can you Yes, we
did years ago. We did a plan for a ramp in the front. So, that exists. We did that plan. It never got built. It never got bid. It never went any further, but that does exist. What are what have you got? Okay, terrific. Can you explain like what the major
downsides are or you know why why it makes more sense to go forward with this approach just so we can understand the rationale for for the spend some of the stuff you do have to do. So the parking space obviously you need to get from that parking space into the into the
burrow hall. So that has that has to be changed obviously. Um, this came about because of the the ramps going across the street into the s into the parking lot on the south side. So, you need to get all of that to to mesh, which didn't take into any consideration back then
when we just did the ramp to get into the front. And you weren't a councilman at the time. I don't know if you were in town. There was a gentleman in town that I believe contacted a a firm out of North Carolina uh that came in to look at all of the ADA requirements. um Casey and I can't
think of his last name off the top of my head, but that's what spurred a lot of that. And for whatever reason, it never it never got built. Um now you have a little bit more, like I said, because you change the parking lot across the street, you put in a handicap ramp there, you put in an ad a ramp that'll
be on the north side. That all has to line up. Then you're redoing the the parking lots for the police. And then in the back of the building, which we had nothing to do with, you need to get ADA compliance coming out of the north side of the building. I'm just borrow
entrance because I see that as like, you know, significant part of the project and the existing conditions aren't horrible and it's going to cost a lot of money to, like I said, rip it all up, rebuild, and also a lot of time.
No question to all the above. Absolutely. But again, it's up to the it's up to the council if you want to proceed with that or at this point if you want to change that. Um, then I would suggest you reject these bids. You have to take that
those items out, still get compliance with ADA and then rebid it again. Now, the only unknown at this point is obviously the economy, the tariffs, all of the above, any uncertainty there. And now we're pushing
into going into June, going into the summer. At what point do you then start construction? This will push out your timeline to get back into that building, which again, whether that's critical or not, I I don't know. I think it is, but I'm not sure if that Did you guys ever come up with a concept that would
involve just ramps and preserving most of the burrow hall entrance? And do you have any feel for what whether that concept will work and what the cost would be relative to this? And and if no, how much of an effort would it be for you guys to do that to get into the
front entry? That's that ramp has been designed. It's it's this the burrow has it. It's definitely in in our office. No question. Uh as far as the the space to the north side by the police station, that would have to then still be
accomplished with ADA requirements. So you're going to have some work in that side. And then the question is what do you want to do? The police entrance, the entry to the police station. So that has to come into just fix those items. So it's not going to be just build this one ramp and get in there. Obviously without
taking everything down, rebuilding all of these planters. There's going to be a savings. But how much? I don't I don't know off the top of my head. Understood. I just want to add the planter. Hold on. Hold on. Councilman Glass or anything else? No. Thank you, Mayor. All right.
Yes. The the planters, the wooden planters, they're rotted, so they have to be replaced. Okay. Uh any other member of council wish to ask a question? Um wish to make a comment or and or enter into any form of
debate. I I do have a question that I missed when I read this at home when I don't see it here, but none of the bids seem to consider the three parking spots. Am I right? No, they are the alternate. Is the alternate and that would be
a it will be the alternate eight number eight all the way through 8 13. 8 to 13. Yeah. 8 to 13. the alternate which is roughly add ups to
like almost $11,000. Everything is two 141 two $12,000. So 8, 10, 8, 11, 12, and 13 is parking lot. Correct. Those are the three extra parking spaces. Yes.
Okay. That wasn't clear in the document. Okay. So, and and following Councilman Glass's line of question, how much of a delay would be to get a rendering of what he is proposing in and do we have time to reject or accept the bids? In
the meantime, is there enough time for you to get a rendering or are we pressed against time to accept the bid or reject? You have 60 days to either reject or award. So the 13th six 60 days out. So May June July 13th, right? Um
give or take. But at that point, so between now and then we would have to come back, present and come up with obviously with some sort of a budget for that. So could it be done? Absolutely. Now it again pushes pushes everything out. So just keep that in
mind. Just for clarity. So you're looking just to ignore everything else. The No, no. What the council is doing is considering its options. It's not making a decision. It does that as a whole body. So these questions are to inform the public and the council. Council may
or may not choose to make changes. Uh we're not there yet. So I just want to keep the conversation on track. Okay. Council president. Um so the the the risks if we I understood that correctly is obviously
that these are public records and if we are to reject obviously business tells you that anyone will just increase the price because that's just business. I'm going to stop because that's asking for speculation to the best of your knowledge based on your 30 years of
experience. Okay. You know what? I just I thought it was I wasn't the And I think C the council also said it. You've bid it twice. You reject and negotiate. Maybe
there's going to be a little bit of play. I can only tell you what and that was a much larger job and it actually went nowhere to a point where they're building a smaller job for more money today. But forget it that
aside and the timing as right now as more people are as they're busier and that's some of the comments that we got back from different contractors. They're busier because you're in the season. When this first went out, it was the first one coming out of the gate. So
contractors were a little more hungry because they were it the winter's over and now we're ready to go. So now you're in prime time. So more than likely you're either not going to get that many biders, which we didn't. If 10 people pick up and say, "We're going to bid
it." And then at the day of, you get two out of 10, obviously there's a reason. And we we asked around, well, what what is the reasoning? They're basing and too busy to to fall in the time frame to get this thing done and not have issues with with liquidated damages, so on and so
forth. So those are the risks. You you have to wait. Two things you got to do. Obviously, you need to get back into Burough Hall. You can't get back into Burough Hall because the building inspector refuses to issue a CO because of the ADA requirements. So, that's reality.
Um, is there some that in those numbers? Possibly where maybe some of it will come back. There's there's an allowance for 48,000. I would say we're not going to use the 48,000. So take that number, subtract that number out of there, and there
might be some other leeway in in these quantities and numbers, but you're still looking at north of 700,000 to get this job done as is. As is, and then depending on which alternates you're going to pick, Mr. President, um I don't have any
further questions right now. Okay. Um ask a question. Sure. So, uh, but but there what based on what Councilman Glass said though that that it's not above $700,000 for if you came back and kind of gave us sort of the the minimum work that we would need to get done,
right? Um, that would be le probably less than 700,000, you know, without really doing it, it's it's tough to say. I would say yes. Yes. But again, it there's there's other factors. Are you going to get people to bid it? Are they going to come in cheaper, more? Well, we it sounds
like we might be able to get this done within the two-month time frame and these bids would still be good. Is that correct? But then you're pushing to July. July then by the time you award contracts, so on and so forth,
you're looking at September probably to start. I want to interrupt for a second. Councilman um um Benson, when you said these bids are good, are you suggesting that the bids we're currently seeing or are you suggesting new bids that we would be receiving? No, I mean that these bids would stay the same. So
that's what I thought you said. If I'm not mistaken that these bids cannot be used if we if we change the bid parameters, we would have to go out to bid. It would be a totally new bidding. You would need to re So we can't use these numbers. We can't go back to the
contractor who bid on this. Lizette, would you would you explain that, please? Yes. If you are changing the scope of the project, the layout, that that's a substantial change that can't be used in negotiation. this much of a change. You could sit down and say, "Can
we swap out the uh Japanese garden juniper for something else?" Or, "Can we do a planting after the fact and remove all the trees and have DPW do a planting in the fall?" Like that you could work with. But when you're changing instead
of steps is this incline of a ramp, then those are heavy duty design changes. I guess what I I'm sorry. I apologize. I guess what I mean is if if you came back and said this is what we could potentially do if we say no let's just go with this bid that we got and still
be good for 60 days. 60 days. Oh that's what I meant. So we had that alternative that we could think about. You have 60 days from May 13th to either reject Well technically if you do nothing. It's rejected. Okay. Um you have 60 days
to award and uh bur administrator. Um so but the one of the things if we went down this route it's going to push back the time right to get in at the very least. Is there a financial cost to that? Like if we're waiting a few more months, just the cost
of paying for storage of materials that we have offsite um months is probably about5 $6,000 just on storage cost for both. Yes.
Anything else? Council Benson. No, that's it. Thank you. Counciloman Moi, I have just a general question. Um, if we accept this date and you go back to negotiate, that's how it is. Or you don't you don't accept, but you negotiate. You have to reject. You
reject and then you negotiate based on your experience. Will you be able to negotiate this numbers down to He's again speculating, but we allowed it before. We're gonna allow it this time. It's tough to say
if they're locked in for 60. He's the low bid is locked in for 60 days. So if you reject, say they pick up another job tomorrow morning, they'll say no. You really have no
leverage. Yeah. Yeah. You're you're you're negotiating from weakness, not from strength, in my opinion. And that's what Mhm. from that one experience where I negotiated a job, it was it absolutely was a complete waste of time. That's I mean I I well my experience is
like at this point you're going to get about a 10% reduction is that if you're lucky if you're lucky as a somebody who wants to do the work and and the only the issue here you have two biders. Yeah. So, it's not like you're negotiating from a lot
of strength where somebody's going to say, "Okay, there's 10 people. There's a good chance if I don't do something, I'm not getting it." Here, you got you got they're very high. Yes. And and you're talking about a $700,000 job, not a 7 million or $70 million job. So, the difference between the first and the
second period is So, that you have to wait. Okay. Um, any other member of council wish to ask the question? Um, well, I think it was pretty much
answered by everybody's um my question was answered by everyone basically that they're going to up their bid because they saw what the other um contractors were um putting out. So, that's why all their not all of their costs, but uh much of their costs are are based on
that. Um, if you want to value engineer it, take items out, change the design in the front, obviously that that'll save you money. It's but again, depending on what happens in in the economy and where we're at with all of that. Every day is
a new a new day when you turn the news on. So, you have that going also. Um, whatever whatever the council wants us to do, you know, we will do. I think it's just it's a matter of the fact that like as we've experienced with the change orders like we get this we get
this bid we get this number and then all of a sudden it's ballooning again because of change or it's this is our concern we're not going to get change orders. Are you going to guarantee that? I will guarantee that. I will put my insurance company on the line. This is being reported. I don't care. We will
not get change orders. Oh, I'm just thinking of how many jobs we did in River. How many jobs have we done in River? And I don't think I don't think there were that many change orders. There can be always I mean we say could we hit something there that's un unforeseen obviously. Mhm. But in this
bid you have a $48,000 allowance for unseen for for the contingency and I don't think we're going to use it. We don't use it. You will have a change order but it's a decrease. Decrease. Well, we like those change orders. We like decreases.
Okay. Further comment. Yes. Question for Lisette. Yeah. The bid that we got, will we be able to cover it um after the estoppel period? Yes. So in two weeks we by the next meeting we could cover it.
Okay. So we cannot take any action tonight. You cannot award tonight. And even if we had if today the stople period ended, you can't award because with these types of contracts, you need to have the CFO
certify the funds. Okay. All right. So, um, one last question there. Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. off the top of your head, won't hold you to it, just aware, if we just did the minimal amount of work in the front entrance to get to
88 compliance, how much do you think we could save you? Couple hundred thousand. So, just to answer that question, the front work is roughly 30% out of the entire bid. What what percent? 30% 30%. So, yeah. So the
other 70% is okay. Is the is is you know is the paving the milling and paving the background the electrical work the frontage. So yes so that's why I I should have broke it down to just like to give you
an idea of what it was but yes so sorry 40% 40% I mean on the on the top line 40% is the frontage everything else is what is coming with protocol. Super helpful. Thank you. Another question, council. No, thank you. Go ahead. Sorry.
No, apologize. This is what we're supposed to do to go to day like remove items, for example, the tree removal. So, they DPW can do it. Can we do that today? DPW always said they could do it. Uh, we just simply I don't know why we put it into the alternates. I think it was just to see what what they would
charge. But can we find other items that we can have? Well, it's in alternates, so it's not currently in the bid. You can't do that with with the not with the base. Yes. The bid is locked in pretty much. Right. So the alternate we can play around but but the bids are locked
in unless we want to reject it. Right. Right. Did that answer? Yeah. All right. Anybody else? All right. I don't want our experts to leave yet. I I want us to first of all to enter into discussion.
Um, are we going in principle because we can't take any action until the next meeting. In principle, are we going to move ahead or are we going to reject? Council President, I'm going to start with you. What is your feeling?
Well, after listening to the testimony in the line of questionings and the unforeseen scenarios that we cannot even think how the tariffs are going to impact 3 months down the line and taking his word that there will
be no change orders by I I decrease for the decrease. I'll take it. Uh I'm inclined to consider the the lowest bid for those two circumstances. I would like to then have a discussion about what we can play around with in the
alternate that we can do in-house. Yeah, that would be the next part of our discussion. I'm just trying to organize because there's no point to talk about the originates if we're going to reject. So that answer that's my my answer. Okay, Councilwoman Consell, you're next in um exactly what Lisa just said. Um I
would be inclined to um go forward. Okay, Councilwoman Malari, I agree. Okay, Councilman, you said it all. Councilman Benson, I agree with all them. I'm inclined to move forward. Councilman Glass, move. Yeah, move
forward. Councilwoman do move forward because like you said, it is the season and we are saving 100,000. I think the next bid would be anyways higher because we we won't get, you know, it's it's difficult. It's difficult obviously when
you when you have the purse strings, but I think you need to get back into borrow and let's get there as quickly as possible. And I think the more you push it out and rebid, I don't think the bids are going to come in lower. I I agree with you, council. Okay. So, now we got the second part. It seems we have a
consensus. We have the alternate bid to discuss. Um I'm going to turn to our um our business administrator, Lzette. Can you talk about what to what degree moneywise do we have in this? I I don't think we have 160,000. So, how much
could we accept if we chose to accept anything at all as an alternate? Um, up to 85,000. All right. So, we have a budget of up to 85,000. Do you have a recommendation uh in that regard for the count to so
the council can start with items? Mayor just want to clarify something. If you go to item A6, perable favors. Yeah. So that item was in li of some of the concrete work in the front. So that item
is can be removed. Great. So A6 can be removed. So A6 is something that we 60,000 60,000 50,000 that can be removed because that was supposed to be in view of the concrete in the front of B hole. So we were asked to just take you know
how much it will cost to put environmental papers in the concrete. So that is the amount of concrete that is in the front. Excellent. Good point. So now we have we have u now now we may decide not to add anything and simply say
762,614.2 minus hopefully the 48 coming back to us. We might just simply say we want to do that. But there are some things our um superintendent of public works had suggested and there are some things in regards to the police department that have been suggested. So
Lzette uh we have uh we we have up to 85,000 that we could consider. We have currently in alternates maxing out at uh 100,000 basically. Um, so, um, are there things that you think the council should
consider? And if so, would you name them by letter and number? Um, the items of A8 through A13 because that results in the additional three parking spaces. Um,
as previously explained, once you have that ADA ramp and connecting crosswalk to the parking lot at the fire department, we lose five parking spots that the police department uses on Tenny Avenue. So, um, the most that could be
mitigated is the creation of these three parking spaces. Okay. And you're recommending that and that's coming in approximately 12,000. Correct, Mr. Costa? Right. A2 was the bench, I think. Sorry. Go ahead. No, remember we're gonna we're gonna we're all gonna stay
in our lane. That's what I'm recommending. She's just recommending and then of course we'll go to our professionals for their for their opinions. Yes. Um Okay. So, you're recommending uh first and foremost A8 through A13. Uh what other
recommendations, if any? Um the radiant heat system. Yes. Because that would A7. Yes. that would help with snow and ice removal or DPW is not fully staffed. There are labor laws um involved the
maximum amount of time um personnel can work in clearing snow and with the pedestrian bridge in a few years being replaced on Grand Avenue, the the size of the ramp, the clearing of the ramp would fall on the burrow. So that takes
a lot of um of hours of manpower. So I would recommend that as well. Anything else? Um I don't know if the flag poles have to be put in with this or that could be
done. Mr. C will comment on that in a minute. But are you saying the flag poles would be your third recommendation or not? Um in order of preference. In order of preference. Flag poles. That would be A1. Um, anything else on the
list? No. Okay. So, um, and, um, if I'm not mistaken, we can remove A4 because DPW can complete that word. Correct. All right. So, let's immediately remove A4 and A6 are off our consideration. Okay.
Um, can I ask what A5 is? Uh, that Well, hold on. Let's first uh let's first hear from Mr. Costa uh and associates. Um what do you agree with the ranking that uh the business administrator has offered? Absolutely. Okay. Can you tell
us why you agree? The biggest problem is the parking. So if you go today, the police are all over the uh oni on both sides to run the sidewalk. So they obviously they need additional spaces. This project will give if you do
the three I think there's an additional three, right? If I'm not mistaken. Now, this is three plus. Oh, we're going to give them more on the where the chief is parking now on the gravel. So, you're going to pick up, I think, another two spaces there. So, additional five. You're going to lose a few because of the crosswalk coming
across. Tenny. You can take out the benches. I think Jason said that he can put the benches in. That's almost $10,000. Can I can I interrupt on the benches? Uh, in a minute. Let finish. Maybe I don't. So um
A2 can come out the tree removal A4 as you said mayor can come out A5 wouldn't be required if A6 uh is taken out. So A5 even though it's okay $870 that can come out and A6 can come out.
Okay A5 A4 A2 can come out. We already have a recommendation uh for everything but A3. Uh so keep going but at the end I want to hear if you have any comment. You don't have to come out. Yeah. A3 is gone. Yeah. There is no zero there.
Stone monument is number. Um the only thing I would say is A1 if we could get a better price if we do it after the fact and have have a company if we got to get three bids at that point. Right. Yeah. We'll build it build it strong enough as far as the peers and then
we'll get specs if we have to put in some anchor bolts or something for that or sleeve it. Yeah. $33,000. Okay. So, that would be my recommendation obviously. Back to the council. Okay. Back now to the council president. Yeah. On the bench. I mean,
again, four seems excessive to me. I was I don't know why we keep seeing four. I thought we agreed to reduce it from four to two at one point, but is two. Is it just because it's not pleasingly appealing or is it because we couldn't change the beat for the second time? We
couldn't change. Now we So can we do two? Well, I think I think you can reject it and we could just put ventures in. Yeah. Ourel ourselves. Okay. All right. Okay. We don't know. We're not going to accept it as a part of the alternate. Correct.
Okay. Right. Not I don't think it's And we said Jason has agreed to this of the benches. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. If he hasn't he will. So now we have Joe. So now we have A8 through A13 as our uh
first recommendation, A7 as our second recommendation, A1 as our third recommendation, and um and we're we're A2 is no longer part of it or is not being recommended. Um Council President, any any thoughts on this before I go to
the rest before I pull the rest of the council? No, I I I think at this juncture, I trust the the our professionals. I trustly sets ranking of items. So you wish to accept all of your recommendations? I wish to accept all recommend all recommendations. Correct.
At this time for a consensus vote. Correct. Okay. Any comment? Oh, I just uh want to again thank everyone for doing all this. I know this is a lot lot of work. We just want to get back to borrow. We are trying to do it in a fiscal responsible way. So we're
not we're poking where we poking because we have to. I think that's commendable and I think that's our job. So I I agree. I think uh what you said and what Councilman Glass said and what so many others have said are the right things to say. We should challenge and question
and try to bring things in at the lowest possible price for our for ourselves as taxpayers as well as the rest of the residents who are taxpayers. Councilwoman Canella thoughts? Um I agree with Lzette's number one and number two, but disagree with A1 as an
option. Okay. All right. Um, any comments on that before we go? I just think it's ridiculous. Okay. I know that's the business, but I think it's we're not we're not voting. You absolutely can say that. Watch this.
Yeah. I agree too with Lisa's recommendation. A 8 A through A13. Uh, A A7. I'm sorry. And and for the flag on side note, I think we can make the spots ready but not purchase them or go with
this. And Mr. Costa, we could negotiate that since it's an alternate, right? Tell them tonight. Want the flag post being in the anchor installed, but not the flag post, the actual flag itself. I could call him
tomorrow morning and say this is what he's going to do at no cost. Yes. I I don't get that. But we'll take it. Yeah, we'll just put a sleeve. He'll Well, we'll get the spec to see what it is. And whatever it is, he's going to do
it. He'll have to do it. You could award the base and the the two recommended alternates because the project allowance would allow for prepping the base and it would be nominal. No change orders. He's going to do it for nothing. He's going to throw it in a sleeve or whatever
anchor bolt. It's just an it would be And you feel you can as part of the bill as the bill% I mean we're not going to bring the we're good we council thank you councilman Benson yeah so A7
through A13 I agree with and A1 we can negotiate at another time so I agree you agree that we should negotiate another time okay great Councilman Benson I mean not I just said that Councilman Glass all right I'm just going to try this one
more time last This is not what this is going to look like. Okay. This the concrete is not going to be white. It's going to look like the concrete that you see on the sidewalks throughout River Edge. And
it's not going to look like this. And it's going to get worse and worse over the years. And it's going to be concrete. It's not going to look as pretty as it does in this render. So just one last time I ask the mayor and council to think about pavers and as
far as the cost for pavers that A6 that 36 what is it 60,000 480 that is not the net cost. Okay because
Rob or Jason help me out here. If we didn't do if we did pavers, we wouldn't have to do all this concrete. So what is the net cost? So the so the net increase will be uh you know it will be the same quantity 216
216 square yards. Uh the difference will be 280 minus the the price of the concrete which is 180. So that will be an excess of 30,000 another $30,000. So the net cost hold one second. I just want to stop for a second, Mr.
Shidenian. Um, if we went with alternate A65 under the bidding laws, could we then pull back uh as as and creating that cost or would the contractor have a
right to say, uh, well, it's it's in the original base bid, so therefore you can't have that back. I mean, where would we be legally? the the contractor has to take out the part that he's not doing, right? Like he's not so in the base. So, because it's in the alternate, he knows that he has to take it out.
Correct. If you select the alternate, it replaces the it replaces the parts of the original bid. Excellent. Um, gentlemen, uh, Councilman Glass, continue. I was the mayor. I just want to make sure everyone's aware of that and understand that this is going to be
concrete like you see on the sidewalks throughout the burrow. Right now we have the the existing borrow entrance has a nice vibe. It has nice pavers. It's got nice landscaping. This is going to be a totally different aesthetic having just
a a mass of concrete. So Dave, how about this? Um Councilman Glass, I'm sorry. How about um you you you comment on 8 8 through 13 A7 and then we'll do another discussion of the papers. I I have no other comments, ma'am. Thank
you. All right. We're going to come right back to you in a minute. Uh, Councilwoman Darwal, are you um what is your thoughts about A8 through A13, A7, and A1? Uh, I'm fine with what said but I have
another comment. Can I ask? Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's not in the alternate from number 38 to 47 just for my knowledge. Are these plants you are taking out from the plants in the from 38 to 47?
Sorry, my phone because I don't have the sheet. But from 38 to 47, these are the new plants that would be putting in right. That's something DPW can do if they are removing the trees. I
mean, I've seen like they they even planted the trees. All right, hold on a second. I'm going to ask you. You You've already said that you agree with L was recommendation. So, this is a new item and it is a good item and I
think we should ask for it, but um uh Councilman Glass's motion, well, it's not really a motion, but his point comes first. I asked him to hold that uh so that we could just deal with this. We're going to come right back to you. We're going to go to Councilman Glass's um um
issue now. Uh concern. Councilman Glass, uh, do you want um for the for the do you want us to pull the council on the pavers at this time? Do you want to make um or do you want to continue your your um do you
have more to say uh before we Yeah, we can call on that. Thank you. Good. So, uh Mr. Costa, it is reasonable that it's not 60,000 but 30,000. Correct. It's 60,000 for the cost, but once we do the
trade out, it's really 30,000 in impact. Like around 30,000. Yes. It's like 25, right? Yes. 25 or 30. So, this would be an increase, Lzette, based on A8 through A13,
A7. Um, do we have the $30,000 in the margin? I think we do, but do we? We have it in the margin. However, you got a reward. Um, there is maintenance with having additional pavers. Okay, talk to that
that uh DPW cannot maintain the additional pavers. Our pavers are being uprooted by the trees and we have documentation of people tripping and
falling the papers. And then if you put in papers again and somebody trips and falls, you had an opportunity to correct the condition and you put back the same commission. So you're saying it would create a possible liability or a probable liability. A possible liability
and the maintenance issue and since DPW doesn't have the staff to maintain the maintenance of these papers would have to be accounted for in your operating budget year after year. Okay. So, that's something for us to consider and that's why it was put in as an alternate. Yes.
Okay. Uh, any questions for the BA in regards to this new information? Does this also Sorry, uh, mayor. Uh, does it does this affect the um the heating system that is on the alternate bid because it would that goes underneath
the concrete, right? From what I understand from basically that would be for Mr. Oh, sorry. No, that's in the um the front and by the next to the building. Okay. So, we had to have something to do with and those ramps would stay concrete, correct? So,
this is for the nonramp area, correct? That's the semicircle. The semicircle around the monument. Well, there are pavers there. Uh yes, but hold on. Council consult. Oh, no. I'm just saying that there are fevers there um uh in in between the flag poles
and the I think this is just a concept drawing and we shouldn't take it literally. Okay. And I think so there wouldn't be any papa there. No, there will. So that's so the semicircle and you picture a semicircle show you picture a semicircle you have the
monument right. So we have an outer circle of the monument out of papers and then concrete. So that that area of the concrete we were asked we were tasked to see how much will be the different if we want take down concrete just put environmental paper. So just to give it
a look more like similar to what is out there right now that is everything papers. I was asking questions. Yeah. Further questions because then I'm gonna go on a high note there. Mayor to comment on the durability of pays for Yes, we will as soon as we go to coun
our council. Mr. Shen, I just wanted to just and ask through the BA maybe ask and and the engineer. There's still a $48,000 allowance and I know it was mentioned earlier, but that's only going to get charged if there's overage. Correct. So, assuming that this new bid
is now up to market value, we'll say, because he increased it by you also there's a there's there's $48,000 of wiggle room in the underlying bid before you even get to the alternate bid, but you need to have in order to award, you
have to have you have to have all of it. And then you could swap out the pavers with a with a change or a decrease. But the original contract if you want to do that is roughly the 7 the
762 plus what whatever the A1 is out roughly what 43,000 50,000 so 100 you'd have to come up with about 100,000 on top of the 762. So you'd have to come in with 8.82 and you don't have 8.82 and then you would have to award
the contract get into contract and then do a decrease on a change order. I'm just mentioning that in terms of the concept of where where there's there's there's 50 roughly $50,000 in here that I that I put on the record. I'll do it again. That's not going to be used.
Is that Do you want to comment on that? You don't have to. It's going to be awarded though. Sorry, Mayor. We have to It's got to be We have to award it. We don't know what we'll find underneath. So, I'm not saying anything. Okay. Uh Councilman Glass, I just want to say real quick. Thank you, Mayor. Um, so
pavers last longer than concrete. Much longer. They're much more durable and they're much easier to replace than concrete. You have to get a concrete truck out here if there's damage to the concrete. If there's cracks in the concrete, which there are going to be,
it's much easier to replace paver. We have pavers all over the burrow. Pavers are a better option for durability and maintenance and life cycle. and they're aesthetically much better
than a field of concrete. Okay. Um Okay. Um then based on this, I'm going to go back to the council president and begin the polling again. Council president, any comments or thoughts about um what is that called?
A6. Remember, we're not deciding tonight because we can't. What we're doing is getting a sense of each other. uh so that when we go to the next council meeting we can be efficient and Mr. Costa uh is currently offering us advice that may we may need to ruminate about
for two weeks. Go ahead. Okay. So my concern my reservations with A6 and the papers is what Mr. Portella alluded to the liability and the durability but then we I have council glass expressing that they are they have durability and
they will be easier to maintain again to the best of your understanding and knowledge. What are we looking at that semicircle which exists right today? Um long term we're not long no one none of us is in the council 20
15 years from now those are those papers still holding uh what what is it in your expert opinion what what what we looking at I hate to say it but I'm a paper guy. I am
um their 8,000lb concrete where if you get the right mix is 4,4500. You conceal it. Um will it crack? Depending on a few things it could it might the pavers if they
displace you pick them up you put them back in. But again, if you don't have the maintenance to do it or if you don't have the the people, then you're going to have to put something in the budget that if and when this happens, you need to do that and that's what you have to weigh. But they will, in my opinion,
they'll look better. They'll look better longer and that they are more durable. No question. I personally, we we've put them in a lot of PL. We actually did a seminar at Ruters that they all they wanted us to come down and actually we presented in
front of different engineers actually people from the DP were there and with the new rules and regulations that are coming out with the best management practices and the green measures that you have to do for storm water this is one of them. So you're
going to see these in a lot more places than you have in the past in my opinion. They assuming the papavers environmental pavers because it falls under a green measure under D perable right permanent but what are we looking at for
purposes of capital budget year after year again operating the operating budget I mean we don't we have no clue that is it depends on the extent of the damage that falls under the PW budget it could be the tens of thousands
if I could say just one of the only downside and I stopped wearing high heels personally but that is a downside if if a if you have a heel on that could be a little bit of an issue
so liability issue from that sense and then also there's do that next anything else gentlemen no that's it Mr. Jane, so I just wanted to comment on the liability issue because it was raised. So you obviously have insurance coverage through the GIF. Um, so you know, if
someone does trip and fall on the sidewalk, the GIF would defend the case. Under the New Jersey Tour Claims Act, you are immune from liability for your decisions that you make with respect to what type of material you use or what work you do. The only time you would
ever be liable for somebody that falls on the sidewalk would be if there is a known, and I think that's what the BA was referring to, if there is a known danger that you willfully, you have to willfully and ignore it. In other words, if somebody were to slip and trip and
fall on one of the pavers that got displaced and you did not repair it correctly or you did not repair it at all, you would be responsible. If you repair it and they fall, you are not going to be responsible for the second fall because under the law, the way the law works is once you have engaged in
that corrective action, it starts you back at zero. So the clock resets as long as you re remediate in in a responsible way. It's like the the stop light is the classic example. You have a stoplight that that goes out and and the first car that goes through gets gets hit and gets in an accident. Well,
you're not responsible for that because you didn't know it went out. But once it's gone out now, if you don't fix it right away, the next car that goes through, you're going to be responsible because you will have let let a known dangerous condition continue to exist. Okay, we're back to the council president. Any more comments or thoughts? I mean, I understand both both
uh sides of the equation. I am concerned about maintenance uh cost in our operating budget uh come budget season because of 260 whatever yards of papavers because of they look better. I'm honestly very
concerned about that. Um long term um I'm not I I would need to think about this and and and consider what the DPW has to say because we need to hear from them. They are tasked with maintenance of this. Well well this is this is a
discussion right now. So we can certainly uh if if it's any any council person can ask for further information. So, Lizette, could we have uh um Jason please comment on maintenance cost and if we have to outsource it uh what would that be?
Would that satisfy? Yes. All right. So, you're you're unsure right now, which is perfectly okay. Uh can I move on? Sure, please. Councilwoman Conell. Yes. I'm sure I'm open to to to pavers, too. But I mean, are we talking about where all
of the and this this is to Councilman Glass. Are you talking about putting pavers where all of the the white concrete is currently on the on the rendering? Well, that's not council question glass. That's a question for Mr. Costa. The uh
A6 alternate. Yes. Where would that cover? Would it cover everything but the sidewalks? Yes. So, the sidewalks going across the sidewalks parallel to Tenny. The alternate is the whole is the third.
Let me see. So only the center area center area now is what? Yeah, it just seems like you already said it's not going to be the ramps, right? And I would assume
that it's not going to be the sidewalk. Correct. Because sidewalks are always concrete, right? So it's everything but the ramps and sidewalks. Basically where they are today. over there. It's the horseshoe around around the monument, right? Correct. That's it. So, it'd be$25 to $30,000 to do to keep to keep a
I'm I'm paraphrasing. I'm not making a statement. Just so to keep essentially the look we have now, right? Because that's a this is okay. Because it's an alternate bid, so we can't change it now. Well, I guess we could
negotiate it, but that would be a change order. But does that answer your question? Okay. I feel like I feel like I'm daring in headlights right now. Okay. So, the pavers would just encompass the semi
what was what's in the burrow right now. It's replacing that. Correct. If we if we did Councilman Glass is suggesting right now the B the base is the monument the World Trade Center. Mhm. Okay. That monument now will have will be
surrounded by brick pavers, okay? In a circle, okay? And then everything around that. So as you move to the right where the planter boxes are and to the left towards the police station where it's brick paper, it's not brick papers now. It's actually brick. They would that kind that
wouldn't be concrete. The base is concrete. The alternate would be to remove that concrete and put in brick pers. Yeah. Does that make sense or you need more clarification? No. Okay. So, I just want to make sure that that So, the ADA ramps
are going to be concrete, correct? Okay. The sidewalk that runs parallel to Tenny will be concrete. Correct. We're saying that everything else would be pavers if we went with the alternate. Correct. The sidewalk that is running parallel to the
building would be concrete. Concrete. That's what they said. Yeah. sidewalk, the Tenny Avenue sidewalk would be and adjacent to the building by the police station. So when you if you use the ADA parking space just to the north of the police
the door that they use the private door that would be concrete coming around the building to get in because that's where the um that's where the anywhere a wheelchair would travel will remain concrete. Correct. Council and in your courtyard would be would be pavers.
Council question. Uh, no, I'm done. Clarificate. Are you clarified now? I I hope so. Council Molari, if I recall correctly, last time Jason was here, just Moloto, he was against the against meaning like it was too much
maintenance uh to maintain the pavers. That can you comment to that? Yes, it was in close session and that's I think we went with the idea to do the concrete. He he cited the maintenance the cost the outsourcing and that you'd have
different looking bricks all over aesthetically. I like the idea of having the bricks around the monument and then the uh I mean the papers around the monument and then the concrete. It gives you that we
could two different also if you want to Well, no. Go ahead. Don't I'm not going to bring Mike's out tonight. I'm not not saying another word. We're at a point where No, I understand. I'm I'm not saying another word. Taking into consideration the maintenance and uh DPW superintendent uh
concern I think to keep it with a concrete. Okay. Uh Councilman Benson. Yeah. Thanks. I mean I'm I'm torn because I get it. I do remember Jason and and I know administrator, but aesthetically I kind of get it. Like if we look at this
rendering that's here and so the the the uh the sidewalk would be concrete and then if we leave it all concrete it would just be like the same color wave going all around which I kind of get aesthetically it would be nice to have
those pavers. I think people would appreciate that. But then everything here would be paper, right? The main entrance coming into Bhole would be paver. Yeah. Right. So I'm sorry. So this would this would
be still concrete. That would be concrete. But this the entrance right here all the way point I see all that will be correct. It's not it's not a great representation on that on the rendering. But now, the way we have it now, it's concrete, right? It is concrete. And then to get back to the I
think there was a comment with white concrete. Very difficult to get white concrete. Um, it looks good. No question about it. I could try to find out whether or not it's even available and how much more it would be and I could bring that information back. I already did the
homework on that. I I think right now we don't need to add another Let's not add another what's on the agenda. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean I I I guess I would kind of go more toward what uh our bur administrator and our
DPW supervisor are recommending. Okay. Uh Councilman Glast, do you want to add anything to what you've already said? Just real quick. Thank you, Mayor. So, over the life cycle, pavers are much cheaper to maintain. Period. Um also, I just want
to point out to you guys, I have a dog. I walk it all over town all the time. And guess what? I can't tell you how many times I've tripped over concrete sidewalks, but guess what? I've never tripped over a paper.
Okay. Anything else? No. Okay, Councilwoman Darw. So uh I go with the pavers only because not only it's aesthetically they look good you're spending so much money why not have a little more aesthetics plus
they are environment friendly they reduce the water runoff also they're easy to easier much easier to maintain and I go with counciloman glass even I have tripped down sidewalks more I I'm a walker I'm a runner and I don't think
the trees the the trees only uproot the pavers they I have seen more trees uproot the concrete. I have both in my house. They're both equally am they both take equal amount of time to maintain and in fact pavers
are easier. I would go with pavers. Okay. All right. So, uh, we we have we have a lot to think about and, um, and to reflect on. And if you have further questions that you want to send through, um, our BA, uh, for further comment from
our business administrator, from our burough attorney, or from our engineers, please get those questions by early next week. So, if if such questions are are desirous. Um, Mr. Mayor, can I just make a clarifying point? Sure. And then I
have to go to council wall's point. Um I guess some of us are uh on the fence because of the maintenance cost that this the burden that we're imposing on the DBW. Let's be clear that's where we are right now. So I think what the agreement was for Mr.
to inquire what is the maintenance cost and manpower that the DPW will be passed for if we go ahead with uh uh environmental papers. Yes. Is is everybody understanding the same? I just
want to make sure that everybody's on the same page. Yes, I think so. Okay. Thank you. Good. Um okay. Now, uh, Councilwoman Darwal, you had, uh, you had a concern or a question or recommendation in regards to, um, base
bid 38, uh, items 38 through, I believe, um, 38 to 47 to 47. Would you state that for the uh for for the council? Yes. So, 38 to 47, and 39 to 50, and number 56. I
just wanted to um out of curiosity is this something that DPW cannot do are these the trees they are planting new or are these they're uprooting there is cost to wood mulching don't they do it around the town so before we answer that
question because it's part of the base bid it's not something we can remove um so um right Mr. if since that removing uh that that number of items would
constitute a major change. Okay. Substantial change. So, Councilman Darwell, your question is good. I just want you to know before we go into a brief hopefully a brief discussion of it that we don't have the authority at this time to remove these
items and have the DPW do them. uh and they would be and uh because they're a part of a construction project and they're in the original bid. But if out of curiosity you're wondering whether this could be a in the future, can we
have the DPW do um thing items like this within a construction project? We can answer that. Well, you still you you would have to you you can't take the item out now
to save the money now. You you possibly and and again I'm going to refer back to the attorney do a change order and taking it out in the future after award, but you need to leave it in the base bit for the award 100%. Do you have a follow-up question?
No, that's it. All right, that was curious because in the alternate there is something for um which says like a tree removal is there for DPW then the planting and the wood mulching I mean wood mulching they do all around the town so they like to use saws and not
shovels I guess. No, I'm teasing. I don't know. I'm just Well, but yeah, I'm just curious. Yeah. No, no, I think it's a good point. Why would DPW not do these as well? So, if you want in in future because you're going to be on the council for for a minimum of three
years. If if we have another capital project and you want us to um consider that as an alternate, we can certainly do that. But with this one, we have a choice. We have don't have the option to remove it at this time. Um yeah, one
question. This number 56 when it says wood launching if and where directed, does that make a difference? But if and where? Well, when you say does it make a difference? Let me say we don't need it here. Correct. Correct.
Correct. Yes. Again, so we're going to do this evolved. Some of the stuff on here evolved because of what might have been involved with the burrow hall reconstruction and wasn't. So, flower beds in the front. There was some things
put in but to in in order to speed this up and not to fully design it if and where directed. So now we can direct the person in the field under construction. We want to create beds here. We want to put mulch here, mulch there and do this. It gives us a little more leeway to get
this thing obviously under the whole idea is to get this under construction and get burrow hall back open. So, and not not waste um so to speak more time to design every little nuance that can be done in an easier way under during
the construction phase. All right. All right. Anybody else with any other questions? I have one last one, which I just want to make sure that uh you and uh um and
and Jason and the police chief and Lette are talking about how we maintain the building's uh availability during the construction phase. We've talked about that before, but I just want to make sure that that's something that you're planning on and that you've you've given
consideration. Um because uh if we're clo closing down the building, we need to know that now. Now, when you say closing no public access to the building, but is Burough Hall going to be when you're saying is it going to be open? Is Steve
going to issue a CO once we have uh once we accept the bid in two weeks? He's going to issue a TCO. I believe he would need um information of when it's awarded, when construction's going to begin, and
impact. He he would need a timeline. So, if it's if it's awarded logistically, obviously, we have an entry in the back, an entrance in the back, and in the front. So, we would have again, if you're doing concrete, there's going to be a little
bit of a time because you're pouring concrete. So there may be days or weeks. There's definitely days where you're not going to have access to the front. So this work needs to be done. I just want to make sure that you your your firm Lizette and Jason if not have already
begun discussion start to have that discussion. We we actually we want to minimize the amount of time that the public cannot access the building. If I may. Yes. Thank you. May there's going to be submitts. One of the important
submitts is going to be schedule and sequence. So when Costa gets the sequence, they'll keep that. They should keep that in mind. It's a great point. And they want to sequence it so that maybe we have them do the front first. Get that out of the way. Whatever you guys think works the best for access.
Well, I don't care how it's done. I just want to make sure that we're thinking about it now. Yeah. But we have that that we that we have the right questions for when that decision is being made. Absolutely. But there is absolutely no no question and coordination with DPW
and with the BA there will be some police. Yes, there'll be there'll be disruption. There's no question to minimize that closure. Yes. Yeah. Good. Then um unless uh the
council has an objection, we're going to move on. All right. Are you guys here for KGB fields and pickle or council de? I think the rec director is going to come up here and we're going to be here, but he is going to uh The seats nice and warm
for you, Joe. May I? Yes. Um, could I have a motion and second to have a fivem minute recess? So, move to move second. Sorry. All in favor, please say I. We are in recess for five minutes. I think we're still recording.
Okay, good. Uh, I call to order uh the u back into order the meeting of the mayor and council um May 22nd, 2025 edge library and on Zoom. Madame clerk, roll call, please. Council President Monsano Cohen
here. Councilwoman Canella here. Councilwoman Malari here. Councilman Benson here. Councilman Glass here. Councilwoman Dariwal here. Mayor Pablo
here. Okay. Are we are resuming with our uh presentations? We are at 6B KB KBG fields and pickle ball court design. Mr. Ra. Well, would you introduce yourself so that for the
public's benefit? Joe. Uh Joseph Burka, uh the recreation director uh for the burough. Um and yeah, uh good evening. Hi. Um, as mayor said, this is per the KBG uh field improvements um using the
2019 2020 open space grants as well as the capital that was passed uh for this year. All right. and 2024. Would you and uh business administrator uh um Apatella, would you feel free to jump
in, but Joe, would you please put this in context so the public knows uh why we're doing this and the history that has brought us to this moment? Sure. So, um the biggest well, two big things are uh the flooding of the fields as well as
the pickle ball courts um to get them out of tennis courts. Now, um, pickle ball has been growing as a sport. Uh, this has been going on for a couple years now that, uh, the pickle ball um, participants uh, have been requesting their own courts and we've applied for
grants and we've gotten some funding, but along with that is the whole field needs to be renovated, not renovated, improved. And say, explain to us why it needs to be improved. So, as you can see from the pictures in front of you guys, um, start with the softball fields.
Um you could see that lighter brown color is the existing softball fields. You could see the size difference um with this is probably what 10 15 20 years worth of stretching the field uh bigger than what it should be.
Um the field fencing around it with the dugouts which are the red um as you could see are a lot bigger. Currently we're shrinking that down to make it a um playable for all ages. Um this back to the baseball field now.
Um speaking with the GIF. Um the biggest concern main the uh insurance problem. Yep. Um speaking with them uh ideally we would like to do turf throughout the entire
field. Unfortunately with the flooding in the area as well as funding um that's not doable. But for the maintenance part of it, um, and one of the biggest, uh, areas of sitting water is our big 6090
baseball field. So, the high school uses it, um, little league uses it, uh, women's softball uses it, uh, women's kickball uses it. So, many different, um, programs use it. Yeah. So, um, but there's a lot of sitting water on that.
So, currently the drainage isn't that well over there. um with this turf which the insurance company um said that we were able to put turf in a floodway, right Jay? Mhm. Yeah. Um flood what was
it? Fun plane. Um we are able to put turf there which will help keep that field playable for majority of the times that we have to close it like a day like today. um and assist with the maintenance from DBW and assist with
long-term maintenance of you know operation budgets regarding clay um beads for the uh the dugouts um a variety of seeds all that kind of stuff. So we're attempting to mitigate current conditions. Correct. Keep going. Correct. Um and then as you can see all
the um you know with the new pickle ball courts in place we would have to move the batting cages which are along the fence of DBW to the left of the baseball fields and of course the two soccer fields that are current sizes of the current uh participants that we have
playing at KBG. Now since I've been here for the last two years um these are the two sizes that they use. Um a little bit smaller than the varsity soccer field that the high school plays usually. um the second to fourth graders play on these fields. So, it's smaller fields,
but as you can see, um they both fit exactly how they are now. The field will be um definitely a lot more playable for the soccer kids. Um and that's that's really that's it. So, what we're trying to do is mitigate
current exist existing conditions. We're trying to improve the overall use of the field and the ability to use the field. And uh I want to I want you just to say uh has this brought been brought before the rec commiss committee and are they
in support of this? The rec committee knows that we were presenting today? Um we've been talking about the the uh facelift we call it at the rec committee. Um and they they are on board with that. They understand that there's not much to that could be done here
other than what's being presented. Okay. Now, this is for um you and for our business administrator. Uh the total cost is uh approximately $1.5 million. Sure. How much of that is
grants and how much is that is that is capital in the bud budget? Um cap capital budgeted? Um, I would say roughly 400,000 or so are grants from
the Bergen County Open Space. The rest is coming has come through capital budget. Uh what happened is as our recreation director mentioned this is using fiscal year uh 2019 2020 as well
as 2024 or the 2024 application was for the pickle ball courts and the relocation of the batting cages. The 19 and 20 applications were for um correcting the the conditions of the
field and the fencing uh the drainage. Um even and this project stalled a bit because there was investigation whether we could put in a third field but that required involving the New Jersey
Department of Environmental Protection based on the close proximity to to the river and part of that you know required um surveying. So that delayed moving forward with the softball and baseball field improvements. And of course prices
have changed in the last five, six years. We did reach out to the county if um they could grant additional funding to help cover some of these costs, but they said the grant award is the grant award. They do not provide anything
additional. Um they only provide awards per project. So um that's why the bulk of the cost is coming through our capital project our capital funds and our open space funds that was going to be my next question about approximately
how much is coming from our open space fund ballpark ballpark about 3400,000 okay so approximately 600,000 is from grants outside and about 300,000 is coming from open space so about 900,000 no no it No,
it was about 400,000. Sorry, I misspoke. And about 400 from open space and then the rest of the funding has been through different capital um budgets in 2021. We put money I think in 22 and this year. Okay. So,
we've been attempting to to get to this this point for the last six seven years. Correct. All right. Very good. So that's the history and that's the present uh the initial context of the presentation. Um should we go straight to the council
uh that or or or uh should Joe be offering other testimony and do we want to call before we go to the council? Um, I would open it to the governing body questions so that way it could be determined whether it falls under Joe's
purview or Rob and his staff's perview. Very good. Uh, any member of council? I don't need to go through seniority on this. Go ahead. Hi, thank you, mayor. Um, thank you, Joe. Thanks for this. This is all fantastic. Um, I have a question about the synthetic field because I know that makes up a major
part of what you're proposing. So the synthetic the yellow field would be what's in the dark green. So So how does that work? So like on a day like today it's pouring out. Could they actually play on that field given what's going on? I mean I would wouldn't say that
they could play on that due to the outfield still being grass. Okay. Um but there's not going to be that sitting water that we have currently. So, um, yes, if it rained this morning, they would still be able to play tonight. With the rain we had
today, the field would be closed in general. So, to answer your question specifically, and so that's also takes into account the flooding that we the flooding and the washing of the the clay, the existing clay now, how we have it, the the the washing away every after every
constant rainstorm, the turf prevents all that. Thank you. greatly. Anything else, Councilman? No. Thank you. Any other members? Yeah, I have two questions. Council President, I have two questions. Hey, Joe. Um, so uh first I I I don't understand if you uh Where is
that? Uh those two rectangles like under the uh field. This one? Yeah. What? What? What is that? That's usually what the second graders have played on previously. So, they paint out the lines. It's a smaller soccer field. It's not as big as the the one on top, but
it's like a half a soccer field is what the little guys play. Okay. Okay. So, when we are visualizing the lift, the lift, whatever you call it, um is are we thinking exactly all of these fields will be benefiting from the drainage and
all of that? Everything is going to be um yeah, everything's playable just like it currently is now. Okay. All right. And then the synthetic uh um area. Sure. The the turf infield.
Um I know cuz my son has played turf field. The maintenance cost. Do we do we have a ballpark? What is it look like on a year-to-year basis? So there is a roughly a 10 to 12 year warranty that we
have on the turf and the lifespan of it is gauges between 10 15 20 years um of the turf itself usually higher up well maintained 15 to 20 years the turf um speaking with DBW director um we have
um I guess he has employees that um are trained for chemicals and stuff like that to be able to maintain in-house detour. Um, so that saves on having to even just do spring startups, you know,
um, getting clay in there, that kind of stuff. Okay. So, in the long run, it does save on. So, even the the the the the area, right, the the the turf, cuz I know they have to put the the black pebbles or something, the beads. So, is that something that the DPW is taking
upon themselves to do? We were able to do that as well. Okay, great. Um, and then one last question. I'm sorry. The um pickable culture, I I know that we've talked about this for at least two years and we always agreed that they were going to be
in a non flood zone no matter what. Correct. Is that correct? Just for everybody and the public to understand that even if it rains like today, they could play. Correct. And to to go off that, there are lights down here, right?
So the lights are on, the pickle ball players can play, play, you know, unlike up here where no lights at dusk, they have to go. Um, as long as lights are on till 10:00, they can play until 10 o'clock. So, thank you. Any other member of council?
Oh, good. So, the you're saying that the pickle ball court part is a non-flight zone. That is correct. But the what I want to know like this part you are putting something so that the flood doesn't come
in. No. So the the flood way runs to about right through here like the right on the edge right here. The flood a bit of a diagonal up above here is not
in the flood zone. Okay. And the and the turf is is something new that we are putting. The turf would be something only because of flood um for maintenance wise. Okay. Majority of
it leaves less water out versus No. So this is for the most part this is out of the flood. So this doesn't it has sitting water on it from the rain not from the flooding from the water. Okay. Is the is the field I've heard is it
used for cricket too? The field is used for cricket as well. Yes. Which part is used for cricket? Um do you know I'm not 100% sure. I know they use the entire field though the entirety of this field. I'm
not 100% sure where they put home plate um how they you know line it up. And if these courts are built the pickle ball then these will the other ones would stay as tennis courts. They would return back to tennis courts. They would return back. Yes. Right now
they're temporary temporarily painted. They're half off. Right. Right. There's four pickle ball courts painted. Temporary lined pickle ball courts painted right now. And there's six tennis courts in total. Then it'll be only tennis courts there. This will be
the correct. Okay. Thank you. Anything else? No. Thank you. Anyone else? Yeah, counselor. Thank you. Similar question. The the flood zone line. What is that? 100 year. That's a 100 year. So
you get a 100redy year flood every year now, right? Every week. Yeah. Just about. So what? Tell me what if you know what the elevation the flood elevation is and
what the elevation of the ground surface at this field is. about are we like a foot higher half? Yeah, it's if I if I may. Yeah, absolutely. Two seconds. Um I believe it's elevation 10 in 1988 datam, right? Or am I going the wrong
way? And it's elevation 9 and and 29. Dad, why we have two data? and you are going to be somewhere around 11 to roughly eight in the infield if that's what you're talking about. Now, okay, what I
did when I did my apprentichip under Billowed, I knew that he did that field way back then when I first got out of school. So, I called Dave Halls to see if I get copies of the old Toppo that I worked on when I actually had hair and
we got those. the field actually it's probably depressed from that original topo from the uh I guess 1980s mid 80s so it's actually that field actually went down about a foot so whether erosion either erosion or settling settling
um so my opinion based on the regulations the way I interpret them I think you can bring the field roughly back to where it was originally without requiring a permit would be a permit by rule. That's how I interpret the rules.
Um, you can't get obviously you can't fill in the flood plane because it's fluial, which means you're not allowed no net fill in the floodway. Many years ago, I don't think anybody was on the council back then when we negotiated with AT&T to
literally put the cell tower down there. I don't know if any everybody anybody was in town at that point. got a hardship waiver from D ultimately to lose it to New Milford and that's where it is today. I always you're the power attorney there. I have to look at you.
Um so that's what I think we can do and again Joe said it earlier as far as whether or not GIF uh we reached out for the um turf manufacturer. I've never person I've done turf in Saddlebrook. I did the fields there that a lot of
people came up. It's not going to work. It's in it's wet. It's this, it's that, and it's fine. Here, a little bit different because when we do have major storms and that river floods, it is a river going through there. So, I you I want to make certainly I believe you.
Um, but I think that's got to get verified. Yeah, that's the question. When this floods, if this floods, how much damage is it going to be, right? That's the question. and whether or not it is making a huge investment and we're looking at a flood line that is probably not good.
Our risk manager not accurate data. Mhm. The risk manager did confirm coverage and um you know if we do get um if it continues to happen, worst case scenario, we use the
insurance money from the turf and we put it back to dirt or clay. Um I don't see that necessarily knock on wood, but um our deductible 25 Yeah. 2500. 2500. 2500. Great. And it's at a
depreciative value like your brand new car. Yeah. And Okay. One other question. You guys don't put contingencies on this, but how what is it like plus or minus? You think 15%. 20%. What are you seeing? Like you want
to give me% I can never screw up. Um usually 10%. I mean 10%. So, was this within 10%. What was your engineer's estimate for the for the Burough Hall entrance? We put 50,000
48,000. So, that's uh Oh, your your engineers estimate for Burough Hall. We We have 48,000 as a as a contingency as an allowance. No, no. What was your engineer's estimate versus the low bid? This is an
engine 550,000. Okay. And the bids came in 200,000 more. No, take off the 48,000. Okay. Yeah. But it's a moving target. Well, the target that target took place how many over a year ago.
Okay. What was the original? Wait. Hold on. Are we off? Are we back on hall? No. No. It's just trying to get All I'm trying to do is for the council to understand that this is not a bid. It's an estimate. Oh, yeah. could be off by
as much as 20%. Got it. Okay. Well, absolutely clarify. Okay. So, yeah, because we're not going to go back to Burough Hall. We're going to stick with this. And your your point is that this is not a bid, which it's not. And I was just using B Hall as a benchmark, you know. Okay. To see. Thanks. But two two
totally different jobs. No question. Um and again, I I tell any municipality I work for, anybody, the only way you're going to find out the price is send it out to B. That's the only way you really There's so many variables today. That's it. Thank you. That's you're welcome.
Important to understand. Any other questions? I go ahead. Um or comments. Yes. It's more of a comment. Um, and I just want to point out to uh the council and uh
the viewers if there are any uh that um we that Joe uh our uh direct director Joe Ra uh our BA superintendent Molo and um Kasa Engineering has worked very hard
to try to revamp this field. it has been uh many many years that it's been not necessarily uh taken care of, put it that way, because of all of the water damage that's happened. So, this is finally a
project and as Joe mentioned, so many teams and or organizations use this field all year round. He's got a schedule for every every single organization in the burrow and outside of the burrow, too. So I
think that this is a much needed in your words facelift for KBG that is a field that is used all the time and I think it's a project that's going to um be very beneficial for the residents. Let me pick up on that for the public's benefit. Those who might be watching now
or you looking at YouTube later um Riveridge is landlocked. Uh by that I mean there is no undeveloped property of any substance. Certainly no undeveloped property that we can put another baseball field or a rack field. It is what it is. We are a little less than
two square miles and we have one of the biggest girls program Regal River Edge girls athletic league as well as rever edge lull league and so on and so forth. We have the Blackhawks and everything else. Then we have all the men's teams and um u so there is no other place for
us to go. We have two choices. put money into trying to mitigate our current conditions or abandon it. And we don't have that as an option. Abandoning our field would be shutting down our programs. And I just want the public to understand that because they might say,
"Well, we're putting a lot of money into the area that's floods. We have no options. There is no uh undeveloped land in the town that we could possibly go to." Mr. Costa, would you agree with that? I would agree with that. Miss, would you agree with that? 100%. Okay.
Uh any other comments or questions? I just like to make a comment. Right. Yeah, mayor. Um you know, we mentioned all the baseball teams as well. I just want to make it uh extremely clear that the soccer cricket and all of these other
sports will have the same availability for playing their individual sport as they currently have currently do and have had for the last however many years they've been using. So there'll be no diminishing in the schedule. Correct. Okay. I mean there will be more rules
and regulations as these we're putting a lot of money into this. So it's going to be a little bit more of a structured schedule so that they take better care of it. Correct. Um but other than that I just wanted to make that one statement. Okay. Lette, is there any action the
council needs to take at this time? Um authorize the our engineers to finalize this design. So that way we can authorize going out to bid and work on scheduling a bid opening. Uh if the
council is interested in such, I would entertain a motion and a second to do what Lizette just said. So moved. Second. There is. It's been moved and second. All in favor, please say I. I. I. Are there any opposed? There any abstensions? It is unanimous. Thank you.
Thank you guys. Okay, now we're up to council chamber deis. Are you still Oh, you're doing Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you. You too. Appreciate it, guys. Um,
our DPW superintendent is out ill this evening, so he couldn't make it. So, I'm going to try my best to pitch it for him. Um, a few months ago, Jason had presented a conceptual plan for the day to construct
a brand new DEIS and currently the Deis sits nine. Um, the burough clerk would sits at a table off to the side. Um I know land use sits their members that
don't fit in the day is um out on tables and we you know Jason looked every possibility within this footprint on how to maximize the space and when he I want to stop there for a second. I want to give context for the both the council
who uh who were not here when we originally discussed uh Bur Hall and renovating it and well repairing it really because it was falling down. Burh Hall is broken into three buildings. The original house that became uh our our
basically administrative center which has been going under major renovations because it was literally falling down. So much so that when we went down to joices and um and um uh uh studs did studs and joyes, joistices hold up the
floor, studs hold up the walls. Uh the second floor was about to collapse and we had to we had to um brace it in order to then evaluate whether we were going to remove everything and and our engineer uh we we had to remove everything. We had to literally take
everything from the basement floor board floor to the rafters to this uh to the attic beyond the attic out to uh mitigate what was uh a residential building that had been used as a basically a business uh a municipal building. But when we were originally
considering this, the council um was looking at did we want to just do that first building or did we want to include the second and third building which which uh which the addition the addition was council chambers and the business office. And then the third ch uh
building is the police department. And there was a discussion, a lengthy discussion by council on whether to um whether we should go uh venture into um doing a major renovation of the middle
building, which is the second edition. And it was decided by the council for financial reasons for being budgetarily responsible that we would not uh because the suggestion was that we take down uh the middle building and the front
building and we bump everything up and out. Uh and the council decided that the then possible price tag of 8 to 10 I think it was 8 to 10 about 8 n million. Yeah. 88 89 million was too much of a burden upon the residents and so we
decided as a group to um the council then to keep the footprint as is that footprint creates constraints and we are dealing and so we are dealing within those constraints to save the public
some six to 7 million. So um that's why we're looking at making some modifications to the deis in a very small room. Please continue. Yes. So we couldn't we can't expand the deis anymore. We couldn't um make levels. So
when Jason made his presentation, an option was to build a new udeis as is build a new udeis um six feet on each side which would allow for two more seats on each side or um three feet on
one side where the ramp is and six feet on the other side where the burough clerk sits. And that was the decision. So we went back, he um solicited quotes cuz all he had was a like a handdrawn drawing and um this
company Salon Interiors which did the mill work of the burrow hall was the only vendor that that responded. Other um companies said that they would not even entertain it unless they had an architectural design which would then
add much more to the cost. Um the color scheme that you see is the scheme that matches the the new elevator that is in the municipal building and the intent. Um, so instead of nine people, it would
fit. Um, instead of nine people, 12 people would fit. You would still need a table. And that's part of the quote um for land use to use to put in the rest of their members and professionals. And um this
work will take place between July and August since uh you know the intent was that we would be back in the municipal building since the governing body meets only once a month in the summer during that four-week period this would be constructed. this is completely new,
completely, you know, constructed. And if the governing body is in favor of this conceptual design, then the only thing left to do would just um have it look at it to see where we could put microphones. Um underneath it could it
could fit a small mixer and um we could put in the outlets for for the microphones. Are we going to remove the table behind the DAS? There is no table behind the deis anymore. There's nothing behind the deis. Oh, it's gone already. Yes. Okay, great. Um, actually, I should have went
to the council first and I should have done last. Okay, great. Questions? Any member of council wish to ask a question or make a comment? No, I have a question. Okay. Um, the table that is part of the bid, it's to go in between. It's to go in the well
created by the council. Correct. And uh that table will be movable. Correct. Yes. Okay. Also, I notice in this drawing that uh the um left side is closed by what looks like a gate. Yes.
It mentions a swing gate. Okay. Um and that I don't remember that being part of our construct our conversation. Uh why is that there? What benefit does it serve? I am not sure. Okay. So, that would be a
question that I would want answered. Yes. Uh because I personally would rather it be removed. I know it's a step down, but it allows the council and uh the lenuse board to approach the deis from both sides. It also allows the
egress uh away from both sides. Um, and since the window behind the deis is no, I don't think is an emergency exit anymore, which was there. Yeah. I think it would I I I don't think I I want uh personally for me if I was, you know, I
can exit as the mayor out the uh door to the police department, but I think the council on that side should not be hemmed in. I think it's personally uh something that should be removed from the plan and and uh if that that brings us money back, great. If not, that's
okay to me. Anybody else have a question or comment? You mean that little that piece of wood? Yeah. Okay. Oh, that's what I just I feel it's a safety hazard and I feel it uh it it's just incumbrance. Plus, if it's a swinging
gate, it mean I would assume the gate swings out, not swings in. And that means that uh putting chairs there that becomes problematic. I think what will end up happening it will just be permanently open. So why put it in the first place? Right. Okay. I'll ask Jason
to confirm on that. Yeah. Uh anybody object to removing that as an incumbrance, then please ask Jason to remove it. Okay. Uh any other questions about this? Do we like the colors? This color scheme is at the bottom of the
email that was sent to you. Do you have any objections to the colors because you got to live with it? Sorry, I'm not able to see it, but I would agree with you. Whatever. It was It was sent in the packet a couple days ago. Yeah. Sorry. But I agree with the color that you choose. Okay. Do you want to pass that
down? Thank you, ma'am. Welcome. Lovely. And is is there a warranty on this? Uh, is there a warranty? Jason's not here. I don't know if that knows. I I think all work done
John. Isn't all work, you know, guaranteed for a certain period of time? Isn't there a maintenance bond? Usually, this is being done by the contractor. Yes. This is being this is something that purchasing from like an outside furniture vendor.
No, this isn't going out to bid. I will I'll ask about the the warranty on it because there there's no performance bond. There's no So, there wouldn't be a maintenance bond. Okay. Okay. Good question. Anybody else? Uh Lzette, are you looking for a
motion to move forward with the changes that I've asked for? Yes. And if there's anything that has to come back to the governing body once Jason responds, then I'll let everyone know. All right. Uh, could I have a motion and second to approve without the swing gate? So
moved. Second. All in favor, please say I. Any opposed? Any abstension? Okay, we've done the first third of the meeting. And mayor, I I meant this to you earlier. I apologize. Yes, I know. Unavoidable conflict. No worries. We're
glad that you you uh have to take off. uh your insight into the uh the free presentations were was well worth your time and we appreciate that. Councilman, hopefully my departure will make the rest of the meeting much longer. I don't
I'm not commenting on that. It's kind of like your wife asking, "Do I look fat in this dress?" The answer is always no. Okay. Uh good. Uh could I have a motion second to open up to any um actually you
know what I'm going to do because we have a resident here and she's been here for quite a while. I'm going to ask with uh without objection to um to open to the public on any question not just on the agenda because we we've had a lengthy meeting. Is there objection? No.
No hearing none. Could I have a motion and second? All in favor please say I. I. Come on up. What? I don't because that's the only way you can be seen for the public meeting please state your name and address.
Hello, my name is Carolyn Smite, 333 Lexington Drive in River here. 40-year living in town. So, I haven't been to a meeting for a while, so that's a good thing. But first, and this was not planned because I for my 86 year old, you get two minutes. Okay. First, thank
you for all the work you guys have done tonight. I'm so impressed. I mean, I didn't expect to see all that and it was wonderful. Uh, the main reason I'm here is for my 86-y old mother who also lives in town and two other a brother and a sister who also live in town. First, I
want to say thank you so much for whoever started the whole veterans flags that are out. My mother was very excited and all of that. Um, she put up my father's and we put put in all the information and everything. Um, I did
not ask and one question we did not ask was where they were going to be placed and I don't know that we have an opinion or we can ask that but my mother was very disappointed today and um I didn't know if there was a committee that was involved or anybody or if it was kind of
just arbitrary and that's the reason I'm here because it could be that it was just arbitrary and somebody just said here put these flags up. I don't know. But we just hoped that since you mentioned earlier like we're in a 2 by 2 town and it's so community oriented that
where they are placed so far and she was so excited we were the first or second ones in I think and that might have been a bad thing to do because of where they all started. You'd have to be a person and I can't even take my mother to walk past it. You'd have to be a person that's going on to like Route Four where
they all started and it's really not part of the community with the veterans. My dad had invested years ago before we gave this contribution to the trees that are at Memorial Park with the end of the parades and he's one of the plaques on
the ground. Um, so we were just hoping that at some point maybe it could be reconsidered or at the least my mom's could because I'm here on her behalf. Um, again, not complaining, so happy. She used to go to other towns and be,
oh, you know, why, you know, why don't we have it? Why don't we have it? So, so grateful. And I don't really know who to reach out to or if they would think because we're not complaining. Again, grateful. That's your two minutes. Don't go anywhere. We're going to see if anybody else want Oh, well actually got to go back to the regular seats, but
stay here. Um, okay. Is there any member from uh who is currently uh online wishing to uh say anything at all? Please raise your hand. Okay, we have one hand. Lauren 23, you are allowed to talk. Lauren, uh
you need to unmute yourself. Lauren, state your full Lauren. She can't turn on the camera, can she? Uh, hang on one second. Can you If you can turn on your camera, great. If you can't, that's okay. Uh, please state your full name and address. Unless, of course, you are
uh a police officer. Uh, no, it's Tracy Lavine, 535 Bogurt Road, River Edge. Uh, having trouble with the camera at the moment. Um, just had a quick question about the pickle ball courts. Um I just wanted was curious as to what materials
uh would be used for the actual court surface and how many courts are proposed. Okay, we'll get back to that. Do you have any other questions uh before we go to another person? No. All right, Tracy. Thank you. Any other
member of the public who would like to ask a question at this time uh or make a comment, you may do so. Okay. Michael uh Rosoff is what the uh ID is. Please state your full name and address. Uh yes, Michael Rosoff, 163
Dorchester Road. Okay, Michael, go ahead. You have two minutes. Okay. So, I am also a uh pickle ball enthusiast and I'm very concerned that uh regardless of even if the courts
at KBG are successfully implemented uh whether we can get a commitment that we can keep the current pickle ball courts that are at the uh behind the library on Continental.
Okay. Any other question or comment? Uh no. Uh other than in terms of a comment, um I I think u we're all well aware that the number of pickle ball players far exceeds
tennis players. Tennis players in this town uh no not only have access to uh the courts at Continental, but they also have access to courts in Vansorn Park. And
um it it would be nice if pickle ball players would receive at least equal recognition uh by the town. Okay. Uh do you you still have a few more seconds. Does any other comment or question? Uh no, that is it. Thank you.
Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to speak or make a comment? Seeing none, could I have a motion and second to close to the public? Second. All in favor, please say I. I. Could we uh remove uh the two residents
from uh the meeting? Oh, sorry. Okay. Oh, I hope they didn't get kicked off. Yeah, they did. I'm sorry. They were just supposed to be removed from the Yes, that's not your fault. That's my fault.
Uh back in probably got Hold on. Sorry, Tracy and Michael. Tracy, did you get kicked off? I did. Can you get back in? I'm going to try. Um,
and if you can, then would ask you to text Michael and do the same. Okay. because I was like, wait, they just all we wanted to do is remove you from the active portion. But you know, sometimes technology it's, you know, we apologize for any
flail. Oh my god. All right, I'll give it a try and uh stay with me. Give it a try. All right. I'll text Michael. Hit the link and see if it lets you in. It's asking me for password and email
for some reason. Does that mean she can't get back in? I have to go back I think to I'm not sure why it's asking that. I don't know why it's uh I guess I have to go back to
Tracy. You speak to Michael, right? Can uh can we rely on you to pass along our answers? Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I I can text him. Okay. So, I'm going to put you on mute because that's uh the way it goes. We've closed to the public. So, I
will not be entertaining further questions. If you want to do that, you can send emails and things like that. Okay. Okay. No problem. Okay. So, I'm muting you. Okay. All right. One, two, three. I want
to mute the speaker. How do I do that? Um well, we'll just say okay. Okay. Um so first, um now she can't hear me. That mutes my
her ability to hear us. Just lower the volume. Ah, that's a good idea. That's a good idea. Okay, that's how it's done. Yes. Okay, good. Okay. It's not an iPhone. It's not an iPhone. Okay. So, uh first
to the question of the veterans uh uh banners. Um Lzette, I believe that uh with the exception of um Joe M how do I say Jose? Maji. Majirai. Uh they were
just randomly chosen. Um they are currently up. uh we can ask uh our um our um our superintendent of public works to uh to see if he can move. Um and if he can't, which I don't think he
can, we could uh we could uh you can put in a request for next year. So, what I'd like for you to do is to contact uh Miss Appertella um and at the uh and uh she's our business administrator or Miss Dodd, our clerk, and uh you know, just refer
to the fact that you came last night and that uh that uh the council's in agreement. We can we can do that, right? Everybody's Okay, great. I just want to add that wherever it is this year, next year it goes to a different spot. That's what Jason and um had presented. So that
way it's not static. It it'll rotate, especially since the program is growing. But if we if we could move it to a more um communal communal area, um let's let's see if we can't do that. Okay, next question. What materials? Um I
don't know the answer to that question. Do you asked Jill? Good. He had mentioned rock and asphelt and there there are three courts that have been proposed. Okay. So it's some sort of rock and asphalt which I would assume It's an acrylic layer. Acrylic layer. So, what would be
considered standard for pickable? I would assume so. They're not going to change the So, the best of our knowledge, if uh if the residents would like more information, they can certainly send an email again to the clerk and we might be able to get a specific uh disclosure to them or they
can probably um also send it to Joe to Joe. Better to go to send an email to Joe and three courts. Three courts is how many? Uh are we keeping the current courts? No, we had made a promise to both the residents and to the tennis players that they would be restored. Uh
so we are not but that does not mean in 6 to 8 months if we see six to I'm sorry 6 to 18 months if we see that there is a a drop off in tennis players and a demand from pickleball players we couldn't reconsider it in six to 18
months but no we are not con that is not something that would happen uh six to 18 uh months after the pickable courts actually open and start to be used. So if they open and we're immediately go into the winter season and they're not being used. So we we would need data uh
to reconsider it. But the council goes and then we need funding to because we could not set up uh we we would not be we not have the luxury of temporary uh the ability to have temporary courts because we we've already built permanent courts and so there is a question of
liability and insurance. Um what was the last one? Uh equal rights. Uh well uh I know that uh there you can you can play tennis in county and in other towns but uh we our concern our obligation is to
the residents of River Edge. And so um we uh and our cons we also have responsibility to the the residents you live nearby the current tennis courts and the temporary pickle ball courts. And we also have a responsibility to keep our word to those who came and
expressed their concern uh about the pickable courts and the tennis courts. So um the council would not be entertaining that at least as I said for a minimum of six months after the court uh pickable courts down at KGB start being used. Would the council be in
agreement with that? Mayor like to make a can I just what you just said? Um, and just for the public to to know, um, the courts at the tennis court, the pickle ball courts at the tennis courts was always meant to be temporary. That was
said from the getgo. And so, and and the residents knew that. Um, and second, uh, there are many programs that actually go on in the tennis courts. uh our recctor has is running a ton of programs that
new bro as well old programs as well as new programs that are run at the tennis courts. Sure. Absolutely. I just wanted to let the public know that. No, that's great. That's great. And add another thing that u ball also has indoor uh courts which uh they indoor program by
recreation which they use all year at one of the school gyms. Okay. But there is anorical ball too. And also if like to to piggy back on what the rec director said the lights will go off later. Yeah. So there will be more time
during the evenings to play whereas the tennis courts are turned off a certain time because in respect to the residents adjacent to the courts. Good. Excellent. I think uh all good points. Any other points? Okay. I think we covered all of the questions that came. Um excellent
Tracy. I'm going to sign off now. Uh, and I apologize that you got bumped out. Okay. Uh, let us continue. Thank you. Um, could I have a motion and second to approve appointments and personnel changes after I read into the
record? to food the appointment of Isabella Gilmore Joanne Aon as resident members for two-year terms to the green team effective May 22nd 2025 and approve
the hire of the camp staff from June 23rd 2025 through July 25th 2025 as per the list on file with the burough clerk's office. So move um it has to be moved and
seconded then we can discuss it. Second. Is it been second? Second. It's been moved and seconded. Is there debate or discussion or com? I I have to recuse myself from um 8B. Same for me. I have to recuse myself from 8B. Okay. No problem. Uh that still
leaves one two three and we are sufficient. All right. All in favor please say I. I. And for the record, uh, those who wish to recuse or nay. Yes. Recuse. Recuse. To be to be. To be.
Yes. Only to be. Only to be. Yes. Okay. Great. All right. Great. Uh, monthly reports are available to the public through the clerk's office, historic commission, April, uh, library board of trustees May, and land use board April.
Resolutions. Um, now we can move read 157. Correct. All right. Could I have a motion and second to move by acclamation resolutions 25-152 through 25-157? Second. Are there any questions or
comments? Yes. No worries. This is good. This is your job. Apologies everyone. Uh, so Lisa, if you could speak to the And I don't know, mayor, if you were going to do it, if I steal your thunder, I'm apologize, but if you could speak to
um 25152, what does that entail? Um, since we spend so much time on borrow tonight and um I had a question on the first one.
Yes, that. Okay. Go ahead, Lette, if you could speak to what we hope to achieve through resolution 25-152. Um, while the physical construction at Burough Hall is complete, we are
still engaged in closing outstanding matters with the contractor. So um that involves the architect's involvement and the architect's contract has been concluded. So in order to
continue using the architect, we needed to extend the contract. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um and then on um right uh I just want to make sure that for the public's benefit because this is on on a budget and and again
India I'm stealing with fun but I I wanted to uh spend some time on the salary resolution on five6 okay about the full-time employee right so if you could speak to that because um
it's it's um I just want to make sure that the public understand that we're replacing an existing position uh and as Leo is being paid by the BB B the board of ed. If you could explain to the public how does that work? Yes, for this full-time position
um would you refer to refer to the position for the public? Um the zoning assistant that employee was promoted to zoning assistant last year. It was authorized in last year's budget. part of her promotion was uh
providing half of the salary increase May fir May 1st of last year and the other half upon completion of obtaining the zoning certification and these zoning classes are extremely popular once it's Rutgers opens it it fills up
within the day so the soonest um this employee was able to get a seat in the program was this past um beginning of the year January or so. So, um this program was completed. She obtained her
certification last week. So, um this is just continuing the agreement that was given to the employee. You have this promotion. You receive half of salary increase effective upon adoption of the budget and the other half upon
completion of the program. And just to underline what the council president said, this is from last year's budget, not this year's budget. So, um, so that was where the agreement occurred. Yes. So, we're not promoting or hiring a full-time employee in this year's
budget. It was really, uh, an agreement based on last year's budget. Correct. And that funding was in a um salary adjustment line. And since it's last year's money, that's the reserve account, that could still be used this year. Excellent. Thank you. And you
wanted to talk about and is being paid by the board. And for the public's benefit, SEO stands for uh special law enforcement um officer class three um the bureau is responsible for the hiring, the training um providing the
equipment, the outfitting, but and we pay the salary but the board of ed reimbures the bureau um the salary and payroll taxes. And that was also a program that we began a year ago, two years ago. Last year is when it finally
launched. So it was essentially uh an item on last year's budget also, but it does require um resolutions in this year's um in this calendar year. Correct. Okay. So we as as stated uh I
think this is what you're underlining council president and councilwoman Canella who is the budget chair that this was uh this is not a new hire. This is not a promotion. This is simply continuing with the commit we made in
last year's budget. Thank you. All right. Excellent. Thank you, Council President. And thank you, Councilwoman uh Canella also. All right. Uh we have a motion and second. Are there any other discussions? Is there debate? Sorry about that.
Okay. Um I accidentally called him. Okay. So he was calling me back. So um I I don't know how I ended up pushing that button. Um where are we to abstain myself? Well, hold on. You would do that after we uh All in favor, please say I.
I. Is there any abstension for the uh for the whole motion or any portion of the motion? Yes, I I have to abstain myself 25153. Um, check number 66293
66294 66 317 66320 66330 66331 66338 66343 6635 the bill is you haven't done yet. It's 158. No, it's 153. No, that's the
refunds. Yeah, that's what an had mentioned it to me. Okay. All right. We're gonna let you continue with that. There is some internal corrections that I believe need to take place. Uh but we'll for camp
this is this is for camp and uh I don't think that that would be something you have to recuse yourself from. At least that's what uh Mr. Chenian is suggesting as per um his opinion. But for right now, let's
just continue with that and we'll we'll clean this up, right, John? Go ahead. Okay. Uh 66355 666 367 66 368 6633 369 2965 through
2968 634 through 6041. Okay. Okay. I I think that this is probably something that we need to correct uh in the future because uh um we can we can we can fix that. Uh Councilwoman, I'm sorry to put you
through that. Uh but we'll fix it. Okay. Um Okay. Could I have u Councilwoman Canella as the finance chair move uh 25-158? Thank you, mayor. At a regular meeting of the mayor and council of the borrow of the reg county of Bergen, state of
New Jersey held on May 22nd, 2025. Be it resolved that the mayor and council of the borrow regge approve the following expenditures. Current fund 2,170,8354. General capital fund $46,47.71. Grant fund
$2,46. Annual control $21. Trust other 32,717158 payroll $21,562.96 recreation trust $15,282.90. So move second. It's been moved and second. Madame clerk, roll call, please. Council President Montasano Cohen. Yes.
Councilwoman Canella. Yes. Councilwoman Malari. Yes. Councilman Benson. Yes. Councilwoman Darwal. Yes. Can I just interject before this closes? Yeah. Councilwoman
Darw numbers you read are for this resolution with respect to the bill list and there all the individual payments that are on the bill list. So that's that was the correction that we're talking about. So I just for the record if we can reflect the minutes through the clerk that that the the recusal is
for 15 uh8 25-158 and you're comfortable with that council. Very good. So we'll make sure the record reflects that. All right. Great. New business. Uh proposed ordinance to amend zoning regulations.
Who wrote that? Uh Marina submitted on behalf of the land use board. Yes, I know. Uh, I should know about this. Can you Can you um I printed her email. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Um, the municipal land use board's attorney provided a draft ordinance proposing
amendments to zoning regulations regarding swimming pools and building coverage and some other minor changes and the purpose of these changes are made in accord accordance with the recent master plan examination report. Um, she provided a draft. Draft was
reviewed by the burough attorney. Um, Mr. the rough looked at it and made a couple of changes. So the version that is before you is the the version that has been reviewed and and vetted. So now it's up for consideration as to whether
to formally introduce it at the next meeting. Okay. Mr. Stein, do you want to comment on it? No, I mean I think that uh the business administrator gave a very good synopsis. Um, we received uh as as you do sometimes in due course the recommendations from the land use board
with respect to the changes to the to the zoning regulations and that uh after um Bill and I reviewed them uh we did I believe he responded back to Lette and indicated that or to Brie that that that we're comfortable with the changes. So we we're recommending them to the
council to be adopted in by way of ordinance. Okay. Uh does the council have questions, comments, thoughts? I just want to make sure that I understand that this is connected to the master plan, right? Um what was what was when when was that master plan? The last
master plan we did? I think it was 20. It was before I started. Yeah. Okay. And is it typical that it takes uh this time for uh make changes to the zoning ordinance? It just depends on whether or not there are things that they went in the course of their review that they
come up with and they think that they need to be amended and add to it because master plan is like a living breathing. I mean it doesn't it it it it is what it is but it does evolve over time until you decide that you have to go through a whole um revaluation and review. Yeah. Which is somewhat expensive but of
course if there is the need we would do it but there is not a need. As a member of the lanyard board, these issues come up from time to time, especially as we're reviewing different applications. And so, uh, one of the things I've, uh, I've recommended to the land use board as a member, because as mayor, I'm a
member, I'm not the chair, is that the land use board no longer wait, uh, and until a master plan reevaluation, but it um it it corrects the problems that we're seeing as as we go so that uh, no
member of the public should be uh, burdened with an unnecessary cost of coming before the land use board and hiring professionals to do though when it is the general opinion of the language board that these corrections need to be made. Thank you. Welcome.
Anybody else have a question or comment? All right. Could I if uh I would entertain a motion and second to uh move forward with a formal ordinance. Second. It is open for debate. Is there debate? Hearing none. All in favor, please say
I. Is there any old business? We've already opened to the public for for any comments. Um, I don't think we need to do that again, Mr. And there's no here.
I kicked everybody all good. Is there any council comments? I had one. Excellent. Go ahead. I just wanted to recognize Chief Walker and Sergeant Diamond. Uh there was a safety inspection uh by the office of public
employees occupational safety and health on our crossing guards and uh there were no apparent violations and from what I gather that's quite impressive that that's rare. So I just want to do a shout out to Chief Walker, Sergeant Diamond, all the crossing guards and
anyone else involved in in this particular issue. I'd like to add uh to that uh you know when when when police departments get reviewed for these things there usually are some recommendations or as minor fractions but the great job that our uh River edge
police department is doing under leadership of um Chief Walker um none and that's that is something to be said. It might not sound like something but it is something to be said. Anything else council? That's it. Thank you. Anybody
else? Uh, okay. I just uh I know uh this was mentioned before, but uh uh again, congratulations to the River Edge Fire Department, 125 years, and on Chief Kitty on his retirement. And uh and
thank you to our volunteer firefighters. And also present on that one on 25th was uh Chief Chiefs of Ordell, and New Milford. Thank you for coming. and also uh the uh River Edge Volunteer Ambulance Service who also do a great job for us.
Thank you to them for being here. I think they're up uh they're celebrating their 60th soon. I think they did celebrate they did their Yes, 65th. So, uh so we're we're very lucky with our volunteers. 75th actually. What was it? I think was
it 75th for us? 75th. Yeah, maybe it was 75th. Yeah. I'm sorry. I got 75. I I misspoke. Yeah. So, um very very proud and very very grateful to all our volunteers. Um anything about Memorial Day? Uh yeah, Memorial Day is coming up.
Uh uh the council uh there is a private ceremony with the fire department at an hour before the the the public ceremony. I think the public ceremony is at 11:00. Uh hold on. I believe so. And uh so we
hope the public can attend uh at Veteran Memorial Park at 11. Uh and we council's available. Uh we uh I certainly will be there at company number one to remember the firefighters uh of past and those
who have fallen or have um you know uh passed on this year. So um anything else? Anything else? Anybody? I want to tell you, you guys did a great job today. I think the questions were thorough and thoughtful.
I think the debate was professional. Um, these are not these are not easy choices. We're spending money, but we're spending it for the things the public needs, the public wants, and that will um have a positive benefit on the town.
Uh, River Edge is regularly um noted as top fourth town in suburbia, one group in niche or whatever it might be. Then another survey comes out and we're like the top 56th in the United States. Uh, so and this is because of
our volunteers. It is because of our professionals. It's because of our police department and fire department DPW. It is because of all of our volunteers um including REVAS. Uh and of course our fire fire department is volunteer and uh and the people here and
our professionals. So um as well as our non-contractual employees. So um I think you all are doing a great job and you deserve um to pat yourselves on the back as well as all those who not here are doing a great job deserve that. I would entertain the motion and second
to adjurnn the meeting. So move second. All in favor please say I. I. We are adjourned.