Good evening and welcome to the June 17th meeting of the Rosland governing body. Adequate notice of meetings provide in courts of the open public meeting act that the date, time, and location meeting were including the annual meeting schedule post on the public bulletin board and municipal building and filed in the office of the burough clerk. For those attending tonight's meeting via Zoom, the agenda and any other relevant documents can be
found on the burough's website attached to the meeting notice posted news and announcement section. During the meeting, announce will be made prior to the two public comment periods. Anyone wishing to make a public comment via computer will be instructed to use the raise your hand icon. And anyone wishing to make a public comment via telephone will be instructed to dial star 9 at the appropriate time. For those in
attendance in person or remotely, please provide your name and address when selected. If you're eligible for Daniel's law, please just announce your name. Mr. Watkins, please call the role. Mayor Spango present. Mr. Barty here. Mr. Bront here. Mrs. Paratt here. Mr. Schroeder here. Mrs. Tolley here. Mr.
Trillo, please rise for the flag. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and
justice for all. Thank you. First on the agenda, we have our first round of public comment. Any member of the public wishing to be heard, come forward, state your name and address for the record. If you're with us via Zoom, use the raise your hand icon. And if you're with us telephonically, press star 9.
Hi, my name is Mark Minkovich, 293rd Avenue off of Cooper. Uh we have uh about a dozen four to 10 year old kids that play in the street and on the front lawns and we have an excess a lot amount of cars coming down
speeding that don't know it's a dead end and they go down and they speed back up. You got delivery trucks. It's a big issue and all the residents are really really concerned that one of these kids are going to get hit by a car, you know, and I'm out there all the
time. I I got no kids out there, but I keep an eye on them, but you know, I stop all the drivers. I tell them, "Please drive slow." Truck drivers, I give them a nice bottle of water. I ask them, "Please drive slow." But it's really an issue. Down third. It's dangerous. Question. Is there a um dead
end sign? No. L Yeah, dead end. Yes, there. Oh, it says dead end. It's been there for years, but they come down and they get to the end and they go faster coming back cuz they're mad. When I get in the middle street, I stop them. I mean, I don't care. But we had all the
residents sign this. I will talk to the director and I will have uh see if they can have somebody down there for a couple days during the day. Yeah. because it's the kids going to get someone's gonna get hurt or killed. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate whatever you can do. Thank you for these
kids. Thank you. Your music. My name is Charles Christristiana. I live at 57 Karen Drive. Uh obviously in Rosland. Uh couple of questions. One is I came to the meeting yesterday about the zoning. Uh I didn't know about the
the large construction you have here on Harrison and just heard recently about the one on on Payic and I have a I have a question. Okay. And then I have a couple of comments. First question I have is we have what 800 units that are
going to be built in in this and 150 roughly is is affordable housing. It's usually about 20% one or five. Yeah. Well, I I guess here's my question. Why does it have to be 20%. Why do we have to have developers come in? So, we over
we overbuild. Why not? Has anybody ever considered just building the affordable housing, use the town to float some debt, get a developer to come in, and eventually you sell the properties and pay down the debt so we're not burdened
with 700 additional units that we didn't need. Because when I came here 28 years ago, this was a great town. It's starting to change. The traffic is ridiculous on picar. Whenever there's a problem with poseic, everybody comes down my street and we have young kids
there now. The community is changing. Um there's be 10 or 15 houses with older people. So that's one one question I have because I know last night we came and we talked about phase three and I was shocked to hear that there's two weeks left to make a decision and the
decision to to approve or did or or reject was going to have a create a tremendous problem for us with the courts because we have a commitment apparently some sort of court decision. Well, one question I have is how do we get ourselves in a situation where we
have two weeks to make a decision when quarry, as I understand it, pulled out a year ago. A year ago. That's what they told us last night. So, somebody is either dropped the ball or maybe there are deals that are made because I feel like a gun is being put to the head of
the of the the committee and and the town's people that we have to accept this now. So, one, I'd like to find out what happened with that. That's that's the second thing. And and I guess I would say that I don't think there's enough communication
that goes on around this stuff, you know, to let people know because I I didn't I wasn't aware of it, especially not this issue with the quarry. So, if anybody here can explain that to me and also have we considered maybe for if we don't do this thing with the with
the Poseic Avenue, could we build the housing units ourselves? It's 11 units. Can the town do something so we don't have to have 55 units that are going to offload onto Payic Avenue like the other 600? Or when you go to phase 4, can you
do something like that? I mean, think outside the box because the one thing I do know is when you go to the developer and you do this 20% rule, it's great for the developer. He's making a fortune. Why do why do we have to line their pockets? Why don't we do it ourselves?
Has that ever been considered? So, those are my two questions. Why did we wait a year before anybody knew about this? Because it sounded like some of the people on the zoning committee were confused about this, the quarry being pulled out a year ago. And why haven't we considered or have we
considered the town building, the affordable housing units? The the the quarry or the concrete plant came out of our round three plan. When we got our round four number the end of October, beginning of November,
the units that had to be made up from the quarry were going to be included in the round four plan. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that the reason they went to is what we heard last night and people who were here just tell me if I'm wrong. They said the reason we had to put Payic
Avenue into phase three was because the quarry pulled out, but they pulled out a year ago. So it didn't give anybody would have given you enough time to look at other options. Now two weeks left to go. They're saying we have to approve it. Have to approve it. I've seen things in business like this. People wait to
play games and all of a sudden, you know, you got nothing. You have no you have no decision-making capability. You have no planning times. You just have a gun to your head. And I feel like somebody either dropped the ball intentionally or
in a uh by era, one or the other. Well, the the the the round three makeup or whether it was assigned to whatever project it was assigned to was going to be included in our round four plan. If we were able to make up that number, let's say the number came in half, then
it would have been included in another project. What would have been included? The what we what we had to make up from round three. So, are you saying that the 11 units at But it did it have to be on on uh on Payic Avenue at the lot that's being uh identified? Well, that's what I'm
talking about. We just had to get to a certain number. If that number was less, we would have been able to build or they would have been proposing to build less. Okay. But why couldn't we have looked if we had the time? Could we not have looked at other options and explore? Because I mean this is going to be
ridiculous with the traffic coming out of Harrison Avenue coming down to Payic and then when you have all the uh detours. I got two little granddaughters who are right where they turn off of Picaran to Morgantine to go down and people sometimes they go pretty fast
because they're late because of the the detour. So this seems to me like we're just adding to that problem. So again, my question is why did it take a a year for us to find out that we needed to replace
the quarry with Harris with Pose? The quarry is it the quarry is not replaced being replaced by P. We were we were told yesterday it's whether no matter where the units that we have to build come, we had to make up those units. We're 11 affordable units, right? Okay. So, what I'm saying though is if you
knew a year ago that that wasn't an option, why couldn't you find other options? Why is this the only option and we only have two weeks to go? This that's not the only option. The the the the agenda item tonight has been pulled from the agenda. That is not being voted on by the governing body tonight. Okay, that's
good. That's being pulled. The the governing body is going to speak with our attorney in executive session to discuss what transpired last night. I didn't want to announce that prior to the public comment, but since we brought up that's not being voted on by the governing body tonight, it is being
pulled. Before you make a decision about that, is there going to be some way for the public to comment on it? If you I don't open. So that's this period. No, I guess what I'm saying though, the deal was made in a week that we're going to go through with it. You'll be we'll have to hold another meeting with public
comment. Yes. Okay. How about the other question? Have you ever thought about as a town there are there are people that have come to us with proposals to do affordable only units which come out of we would asking us to subsidize it out
of a trust account that we have our unfortunately the trust account only has about $300,000 it has half that 150 now so we weren't able they want us to pay for it from our trust account and subsidize them so we couldn't float debt for the short term
and and and construct these units and then as the units are sold. I don't know if we can I don't know if we can derive a profit. Can we? No. What? You can make a profit. I'm not saying you should make a profit. I'm just saying let's leave that to developers. They're
going to make a fortune. We we know that. I'm not saying the town should make a profit. All I'm saying is the town could use the resources that hopefully it could borrow to build the the affordable housing units and you could you price it at break even.
You'll still get the revenue for the taxes and then I don't have to worry about people renting these houses because that was the other thing they talked about. They were talking about rental units the other night. No, I believe if you're talking about P Avenue, I believe those were for sale for sale units and age restricted age
restricted. No, that's incorrect. All for sale. All age restricted. And how about 18 and under either? And how about this? The monstrosity over here that has rentals. Has rentals. And it's not age restricted at all. I concur with the presentation last night was a rental.
Okay. So, that is how it was presented last. Is there is there a way to do that maybe with the fourth round? Look into it because that's what we're going to that's what we're going to discuss in I'm talking about the town doing it. So we don't have to do anything other than the affordable housing because I think that's a big mistake not to consider
that. So So yes, we're going to discuss it in executive session with our attorneys. Other options besides the Pake Avenue project after our meeting. Thanks Mark. Thank you. Uh good evening. Uh Richard Schlunning 15 Pitar. I'm not gonna repeat a lot of
things that my neighbor Charlie just went through. Um, neighbor. Uh, but I do I do want to highlight a couple things. So, I've been in Rosland 40 years. Uh, last 30 in Pitaren, seen a lot of changes to the town, traffic, everything else. I'm sure all the other
residents can uh can attest to that. it. I'm I'm happy to hear that 150 PAC is is is kind of off uh decision-m at this point because I think it would have raised a lot of issues because you've got over 55 people pulling out a cross
traffic during any time during the day. And let's face it, your driving skills start to diminish as you get older. I think it's just a recipe for disaster. You're coming out of Pit Karen today during rush hour. you've got to wait for a gap in the traffic created by the traffic lights, which is few and far
between. If you've got more cars now coming in from another exit on sick, it just creates more and more issues. Um, I also want to point out that the plan presented last night by Collier and the engineer that was here, uh, this is the
round four plan makes no mention at all of the project at 150 Payic, even though it was submitted on June 6th. So between June 6th and last night, 11 days, something happened where that engineer told us
that the property on 150 Pay was the only option for these 11 affordable units, that there was no other space in town that that could be built. But what happened in these 11 days where this plan is submitted where the
property is still zoned R1, no non-affordable housing, and a concrete plan is still zoned for affordable housing. Bit confusing. Is the plan accurate? It was submitted June 6. It doesn't appear to be. We were also uh not allowed to
ask any questions about the site plan, about traffic last night. It was off the table. So, as residents, we have no clue of where the streets going to come out, about what impact paving, right, and building homes would have to flooding.
There's a stream that runs back there. There's wetlands. What about the people who live downstream of all of that? We don't have any of this information. And yet this project was being fasttracked and was going to be put into the updated uh round four submitted June 30th which
to me would be that this thing is cement in stone. It's written in stone at that point that you have to move forward with this plan. The last thing I'll bring up and another maybe a proposal to what Charlie said is that why not approach the existing developers that are building on Harrison
and Becker and say to them we need a few more affordable units in each of your complexes. We don't need 11 from each of them. We need two or three. And say to them, you know, listen, there's going to be a difference in what they can make on the sale or the rental of that unit
compared to a fair market value. You offset that with some sort of a tax abatement over a short-term period and you make them whole, but you're not having to come up with a plan to build 55 units in 2 weeks on a busy Payic Avenue. I think there's just other
alternatives that you can look at. Thanks. Thank you. Yes. Witness 24 Morgantine Road. You've heard about the effect on Pak Avenue for those of us that live in Pitaren. 40 years is a lot. I've lived
over 50 years where I am. And I have a unique perspective because I live there and I have my office on Becker Farm Becker Farm Road. Um, so I see them both. If you look at from the
point of view of people who are going to use that area, Becker Farm is far preferable. There are um lights, traffic lights at both ends so that if you want to get into traffic, it's controlled. They built Becker Farm so that there are
places for cars to wait while they try and get into traffic and to get out of traffic. None of that's available in Pit Karen. You don't want kids playing back there anyway. The car racing that we hear may stop if
you start construction and you have people there. That's a side benefit. [Music] I don't see the town as ever investing in housing. I I just don't think it's a realistic alternative.
But right now, people are looking at developing in Roseland and they think they've got the upper hand and that they can call the percentages between lowincome housing or affordable housing,
excuse me, and regular housing. They've got to know that that's not totally true. I mean, when they put I guess it's Roseland Green that empties on the Pic Avenue, the idea was that if you allowed traffic to make a left-hand
turn, it would louse the traffic up and therefore they made it illegal to make a left-hand turn. Sit across the street from there for a little while and see how that being illegal does anything. It does nothing.
And and I was delighted when the idea of putting a no left-hand turn sign came up. Uh because I told my boss I was going to be a half hour late for work every day because I wouldn't be able to get into traffic. And this was his idea. You don't have to worry. They won't be
able to louse up your traffic. The town has got to grow. I think unfortunately um my kids grew up here. I wish that they were close enough that my grandchildren could grow up here and then their children could grow up here.
It's a wonderful town, but if you overdevelop it in the areas that are residential, you're going to lose the flavor of the town developing. I drive by Harrison Avenue. I see the
construction going on there. I said, "That's incredible." But that's on Harrison Avenue. It's not the same thing as putting it on Pic Avenue. And I understand you're not putting or allowing a development
on Pic Avenue that you would on Harrison, but the traffic impact of those houses there, never mind the construction, are going to be incredible. you're going to have to park a policeman
out there and and heaven knows we don't have a police department big enough to lose a police officer all day sitting on Pac Avenue. Um I know that all of you live in town. I know that all of you
are trying to do what you think is best for the town. And I'm asking you this is a small crowd in comparison to what we had last night. Last night there were no seats left for anybody. And I think once they were told that the
plan wasn't going to be submitted this month, a lot of people sort of relaxed. I I I don't know that we can relax until you submit a plan. I I think the pressure is on you. And if the pressure is on you, you're going to have to do something.
And we've got to monitor what you do. We've got to let you know how we feel about it and hopefully you'll listen. Thank you. Thank you. Harry Heramis, 26 Morgan Tine Road. And like last night, I'm going to ride the
judge's coattails. Um, kind of a similar sentiment. I've lived in Rosland since 1994. Uh, and forgive me if I repeat some of the things I did last night. I'll try to be brief. But at the time, we were looking for somewhere to live to set down our roots, raise our kids, and
Roseand was like a gem in the area. It's a great location. Uh, we like the feel of the neighborhood. Our kids grew up a safe neighborhood. They they still keep in touch with all their friends from Noker. Um, has a great feel. We've decided not to move after 30 plus years.
We've staying put. Um, and the the little league, the activities, the school system, everything is great. But I was surprised to hear that they wanted to put 55 units across the street cuz we kind of were here for Roseeland Green a few years ago
and we heard everything with the traffic studies and the water and on and on. And like the judge says, you can't make a left turn out of there. And sometimes we cross the street to go walk or whatever and there's cars coming. And if we put
another 55 units, it it kind of takes that feel of that nice suburban uh you know, single family home neighborhood away. And selfishly, I don't want to live in a in a city where there's highrises all
over the place. I was shocked when the Harrison we were running in the back of those land green to cut through to Harrison. So to get and all of a sudden the whole thing was cleared and there's this monstrous development. How many of these do we need? I mean, I I realize there's affordable housing and I don't
quite understand how the units are forced on everybody. It must be some some way to have some say in this, but um if they have to develop, I would rather see single family homes there. And like everybody else says at Becker Farm or Eisenhower where it's a little
bit easier and not a strain on the neighborhood or worry about the children or the the water or the traffic and just kind of keep this area the the special place that it is. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Ralph Gabelli. I live on Five
Paradise Place. I'm also the homeowner association president of that small complex there. I'm probably going to state the obvious on what you folks already know about this, but I come from Fairfield. I lived there for 30 years and I've fought this same f fight in Fairfield a number of times for
development in the area that I live. It's obviously non-conforming use. It's R1 and you're going to have a complex that go in there that's not congruent with the rest of the neighborhood. But what really concerns me it is the density factor. Um
the dwell time to pull out of Paradise Place on Pake Avenue is long. even to pull off of Payic Avenue into Paradise Place is long. So if you have 55 condos there or town houses, you multiply that by two, that's 110 more cars. And if
they have kids who drive, that's even more. And I will tell you that the majority of the people who reside in Paradise Place are seniors. And I'm one of them. And it's hard for people to pull in and out of speeding traffic up
and down Pic Avenue. So, I would urge you folks to consider this strongly and to keep the flavor of the neighborhood. And I know many people here have lived here much longer than I have, but it's just not congruent with what's there now. Thanks. Thank you. You
two more things I forgot to say that I need just to say. So, we we talk about affordable housing, right? Uh my son's 33. He grew up in Roseland. He can't afford to live here. Between him and his wife, they're making a buck 60, buck 70.
They can't afford to move into town. So, you know, we're up we're upset that developers come in and they leverage Mount Laurel and the towns and saying, you know, you got to put these units in. You got to use us to do it. and they're
reaping us on the 80% of the other units that they're putting in luxury uh you know accessories, granite countertops, stuff that you don't need, but they're looking to make a profit. So, I know you guys don't have an answer for it, but
you need to know the sentiment of us residents. My son would love to move back into town and raise a family. I would love to have him here. It's not going to happen at best. Now with 20% down and with using that 30% of your income, monthly
income to qualify for a loan, he can afford maybe 550 570. When's the last time you saw a house like that in Roseland come up? Doesn't happen. You know, that's one thing. Last thing I want to say is that we have hundreds of
new units coming into town with a lot of new tax revenue. What are you going to use that money for? You know, we have a bitter pill we have to swallow with a lot more traffic, high density, nothing like that. I'd love to see that money go to offset our
property taxes and make it a benefit for us. So, at least there is some upside. Absolutely. Mhm. 100%. 100%. I know too many of you, but uh my name's Brian Bcher. I'm at 149 PA. I'm like right direct directly across from where
you want to do this project um or where they're proposing it. I'll be honest with you. Um I'm in the town like 38 years. I've never been served with a petition about this project. I've never heard anybody call me about
it. It's been up now twice as proposal. I'm pissed. All right. I don't understand this. I feel like, you know, we're dealing with behind thes scenes people who are just rolling out these proposals. All right. I'm not that guy. I don't
want to I don't want to watch something get just blown through at the end hour. All right. You had a whole year to deal with this. I you're you're shaking your head. I mean, that's what people are saying that this was what this was known a year ago.
So, from a planning standpoint, we call this a planning board. I'm trying to understand how this could possibly be coming up now. Not planning, but at the end hour, two weeks to go. I mean, makes no sense to me logically.
Okay. Uh, you know, I hear all the residents I I feel the same way. I don't understand this. Like there's so many different areas that I know of in town that county owned property. Rosand owns the property at Dock Rail, but this
particular complex comes up on P Avenue where there's no doubt there's a density and tech traffic problem there. Okay. To discuss that to me is like so baseless. It makes no logical sense to me to even
consider it. Now, I understand you have the Mount Laurel and the COA, and I'm a CPA by trade, so I've seen this before, but what I what I don't understand is that we're, you
know, we're coming in, we got two weeks to deal with this. This makes no sense. Uh, is there is there an attorney here? Yeah. Okay. So, are you aware or this this was coming up? Yeah. Okay. Why are
we not being notified as residents? Because it's not a decision of the residents. This is decision of the I'm an immediate I'm I'm immediately across the street from this property and no project is happening any just to what somebody said before. If it's any
project plan is ultimately going to go to the planning board to be vetted. So there'll be traffic, there'll be um planners presented, there'll be wetlands analysis, everything that would normally happen in any project. And if there's an issue with the project, then obviously
it won't move forward. It's just that these are the proposed projects that the council had considered to include in the plan. That's not the way it was rolled out. It's O'Brien. Been here since 1966. grew up in town raised my children in
town agree with most of this. Last night what they said was we were not allowed to hear about wet land. Well, it's not at this point. It's not at this time when the projects actually come up for approval. That's when that would be considered.
Last night they rejected planning board the housing plan did not the individual projects. What they said was is that these 11 units had to go through and it needed to be on a plan by June 30th and therefore
we had only two weeks left in order to get this through and that none of these things that you're saying were allowed to be discussed, right? Because this is not the time to discuss those things when the project itself was going to be approved or not. When those projects
come up before this planning board, if the project moves forward, when that project comes to the planning board for approval, that's when those things would be considered just like every other project that the Igree with you. Yeah.
June 30th. Yes. under this the law requires that if you do not if the bureau does not present a housing plan by June 30th, it loses its immunity, which means that any developer can sue and get whatever density that they want
for these whatever projects. Why is there no other property? Why is there Yeah, but why is there no other address that's being even bantered about? Why is it that proposed project which was not approved in phase three,
why is that being resurrected now at the end hour? Makes no sense. There's county owns all over by the golf the golf driving range. There's all kinds of land over there. I believe it was block the the the lawyer last night. No, he's a planner.
The planning. Okay. What he was trying to say was is that they they needed those 11 units because that we had to back out a year ago. Okay. And we needed to get those 11 units into a plan that needs to be submitted by the end of the
month. If that is the case, one, and I think everybody's asked the question and we haven't heard an answer yet, why did we wait for the two weeks prior improper planning as far as any kind of businesses run in the town? Should we run as a business? Um, and the other
piece was that he said that, well, we just thought that because she could do 11 units on Sake Avenue, it matched the number, so we put it in. Is that logical? Is that the way we do business? We're just going to half-hazardly create a situation because those 11 units
matched what she had in her plan. I mean, it just it's just doesn't make sense. And they said repeatedly, "We as residents were not allowed to know as far as the wetlands, the traffic, all of
those other engineering reports that need to happen in order for this plan to be approved. There was no time for that because we only had two weeks and it was stressed over and over and over again." I just had one clarified question if I
could. You said that the time to have those discussions after the plan is approved about the individual projects. Every project that's approved in connection with the COA agreement is still subject to approval by the planning board at a future date when the
project actually comes up for approval. When this plan gets adopted, whatever the plan consists of and whatever projects are included, it's not like the developer the next day goes out and builds. They still have to go to the planning board and they have to be vetted by the planning board and approved the way it would normally be.
Didn't the citizen have an opportunity? I mean that would be at the planning board. You would come to a planning board hearing and say we have last night. Yes. But what you were actually what you were objecting to was the inclusion of that project in the housing
plan itself. That's all I'm saying. There's a distinction in that that what was up for consideration by the planning board at last night's meeting was the housing plan which included certain projects. Those certain projects whatever it is ultimately that the plan
consists of those projects are still subject to approval by the zoning by the planning sequencing of it. I would think you'd want to get the feedback from the citizens of the town before the project gets approved so you kind of understand what everybody's concerned are. I mean
once They do it after the plan has been approved but before it's not my decision. This is the court mandated. We got a rule. The court says it has to be done by a certain date citizens beforehand. Now that doesn't No, no, no. It's just the timing. It was
the timing of it. We haven't had a year. That's not right. I'm not sure where the coming from. I I don't know that we knew we knew a year ago that that we were short 11 units for round three. I don't know that that's a
year ago. We needed to find a place for 11 units. Not that it was a year, but the 11 units definitely accurate. Yeah, but just just to define what she's talking about cuz I was a little put off when I found out that we're going to ramrod this thing in
two weeks. Okay. What was the date? What was the date when you knew? When we knew that the 11 units were not going to be built. We we got our number in no end of October of 2024. We accepted our number after our
professionals reviewed it. I believe February of 2025. End of January. When when did the developer or whoever owns that land back out and say they don't want to they don't want it developed? When did that happen? That's a year ago.
I don't remember the date that they pulled out. When did they notify when did they notify the town? That's what's I mean because if there's no look for an alternative property to develop, that's unfortunate because somebody who's responsible for the co-op is not doing
their work. And listen, I think there's a lot I think there's a lot being said tonight. And this is good, right? Everyone's talking and this is what this is about, right? We're all supposed to hash it out. So, this is good. Um, so we're going to go back to executive after and we're going to discuss all the options. There are other options on the table
that are quite frankly none of the options are palatable, right? I don't think any of us are happy with whatever we end up agreeing to 30th. No one's going to be happy, right? I'm I'm not happy about the 200 plus units that are going in on Becker farm either. Um, one
question. When we submit the plan to the state, is that carved in stone or can that plan be adjusted? So if you have a deadline to submit this plan and it's part three and part four together, right? Because we have to amend amend the uh plan three project three. When we
submit it, is it carved in stone or can we submit saying we are working on a place to put those 11 units, but we haven't ironed that out yet? No, you have to have a plan that has everything addressed. Otherwise, you'll have a builder suing the next day. And then
once that plan goes to the state and is approved, that's it. It's a Well, you can make you could in theory make an amendment or make a request for an amendment to move those 11 units to someplace else. Yeah. I mean, I think it's open. Yes, you need to have a plan in place so that you're protected so
that July 1st, you don't lose your immunity. That plan can be modified at a future date. If something comes up or a developer decides, you know what, I don't want to build here anymore. you know, something happens, they discover something on their property that there's a wetlands that they didn't anticipate
and they can't actually do the number of units that they were promising. So, you need to make a modification. So, there are changes that can happen as you go through this process, which is what happened to the round of those 11 units. Exactly. Because the developer backed out. Exactly. We need to find a
reasonable plan to to allow for those 11 units. And it it could be just 11 units built by someone the town, not a developer looking to make a fortune. Find a local contractor in town and give him a bid to build 11 units someplace.
Someone who's not looking. That's going to be hard. I would love to find someone that's going to do that, but that's going to be a hard find. His proposal was good. add a couple units to the
I don't think you can. So listen, you reasonable for a hundred different reasons. So listen, we hear you guys. This is great. I'm I'm happy that everyone came out. This is what we do. If I could just get it out. Um
last night, the attorney for the development on St. was here with her plans and wanted to explain her plans to the audience would correctly said now's not the time or the place to do that. But everybody's fear
is that these approvals are going to happen and then we're going to get notice of that. As opposed to getting notice now, right, this mayor and council have a good reputation for listening to the people in in town. That's I assume why you all get a life.
uh which may be a blessing or a curse depending how you look at it but it's a very difficult thing for people who live down there you know I I I suspect that everybody loves it everybody talks about can't you
find somebody to do a development developers don't hang out on street corn okay they're trying to look to make money make money and that's the problem it that would just be a horrible decision as someone who is involved with
other towns compilation. Listen, I we see it from we see it from everybody. We see what's happening in East Hanover. We know what's happening in North Caldwell. We know what's happening in surrounding towns. So, listen, we're taking all the information in, including the information you guys are coming to us now. We'll go to executive session and we'll come up with a better plan, the
best that we can to try and make everybody happy. The bottom line is no one's happy about the CO stuff in the affordable housing to begin with. We're going to make the best decision possible. My me personally when this came we voted on it and it went to the planning board. I was okay with it. My biggest selling point was the fact that they're age restricted units on Pose
Avenue. We don't have any age restricted units anywhere in town and I we hear from elderly people who want to stay in town like you were who were saying that their kids can't live here. We were hearing about elderly people that want places that they can live. These are age restricted units that we don't have
anywhere else in town. But a portion of them will be affordable, which is better than none of them, but at least it's age restricted, which we thought was selling point. And then I thought the density on Becker Farm would just be over the top then. That was my reason. But we're going to go to executive. We'll discuss everything and we'll come back with something that's hopefully more
palatable. So proposed age restricted on Harrison when they decide to build when that gets started. Right. Joanie, hold on. Trying to get them to do that place. Wait, Joanie, just correct me if I'm wrong. I know they keep saying like add them to what's already started. Well, I
don't and correct me if I'm wrong. We can't add more units to the plans that are all the people who are already built already under construction. Right. The ones under construction we can't unit I think I don't
it have to go into round four. Correct. Right. On saying that the developer consists July 1. It would be July 1st. any developer that develop any any any developer if we lose our we open up the floodgates for that developer in the courts for if
you can't for an extension we tried for denied denied turn we're denied we were denied penalty if you don't you there you're subject to litigation they'll sue you you lose all immunity like
you didn't have the right basically There's no monetary penalty. It's just that you lose your immunity. It's affordable and go to litigation. I'll be honest, that makes more sense. Nobody makes money except lawyers, right?
Because the the problem is is that if you if you lose your immunity, whatever you're saying the development should be and what you're saying the density should be, if you lose your immunity, the developer gets to set that density. So a project that's 50 units could
become 150 units if there's a basis to be able to fit that number of units on a site. So it it's a lot more exposure if you lose your immunity. It's a gam one of those things. If I may, Mr. Mayor, we we have an opportunity and we have everything in our power as a council and
I want to speak for the council to put in a report, meet our obligation and avoid that draconian option. We can do it. I'm hearing this group and last night few of my colleagues were at that
entire meeting are here that this council can do better informing the public of what's happening. There is no judge. There is no court. There is nothing that prevents us as a council for doing that. And I also want to make
it clear, it's been my position against this project for months since we're opening it up to discussion and talking about what we're for or against. Nonetheless, I believe that we have an opportunity and this council has heard I'll speak for myself has heard you and
we will come up with a plan that meets our obligation for June 30th. Thank you. Let me echo. I'm also against it, but my question is now there was a planning board meeting last night and for the last couple of month couple of months
there was no planning board. Why did what if the planning board knew of this ahead of time and they had to cancel meetings? Wasn't there a time where they could schedule an emergency meeting? I mean, if there were no meetings in what March 6th,
we can't speak. I I understand what you're saying with the planning board not meeting, but we can't speak for them. That would have to ask that. I'm sorry. Correct. We spoke we spoke to their attorney. I personally spoke to their attorney through our attorney this morning. Correct. Also several zoning
board members that were unaware planning board planning board. They got their they said they were blind. Well, they got it Friday. They got the agenda. One question. That was the testimony last night of planning board members that they were blindsided. One question. The
deadline isn't that that it's a meeting frenzy. Any developer can come in and get launch and that's lose your immunity. Yeah. Doesn't matter. Why is that? Can't that be challenging? We wish we wish that it could be.
We live here. That doesn't make any sense. Guess we need to change. That's the governor. That's Governor Murphy's bill that was adopted in March of 2024. Get a new governor. I don't know if I I don't know if they can. We would, it was historically was a
former governor tried to get it out of the hands of the court and I'm sure Jesus knows it's been anyway and get it back to the legislature which we all would have loved to happen. Unfortunately, it failed. No, it doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever.
Does one point you say that the wetlands doesn't matter. I don't believe that land can be built up. I believe there's a concentration of wetlands. You're talking about 138 Pacific Avenue. 138.
Yeah. So the the plan that was submitted that they came up with just to include it, the wetlands was or taken out of it. So when they did their initial report 5 years ago, it was included in it, you know, and it when they came back, they were told what the wetlands are. So you can't build in wetlands and there's
usually a 50ft set back as well from that. So you have a a buffer zone as well. So I think it was originally I think it was originally 8.6 six acres and it was reduced down to seven acres as a result of the wetlands on the property. Um that team had been revised in 2022
using a map of 2006. Have we taken this into consideration as change of property parcel now? because the needs and bounds do not meet his original deed for that property that he proposed to affordable housing back in 200.
Do we know this? I mean I you can go on uh you can actually go on your own access to press to the essics register and see his own deed. I mean, you know, you have him presenting
a project, a project from a proposed before coming forward to get approved for this new fourth round. Well, it's third round actually. Third round was not approved yet. Is that correct? No, third round. No, the third
round was approved years ago. I'm hearing in July that we're closing the third round. No, the these are credits that are open from the third round, but the third round was approved years ago. Okay. So, you cannot get back up, but I don't
like, you know, there's things behind the scene that no one is um coming forward. Just I want to make a point about this wetlands problem. Okay. because I had spoken to the owner and he told me that a large concentration of
his acreage was in wetlands years ago, 20 years ago, telling me that one one acre out of eight is now wetlands. I'd have to see the study. Absolutely. Any any type of any type of plan. So when when a when a plan or subdivision goes
to the planning board, the board engineer reviews it and he deems it for completeness. So they're going to look at that. That's before That's before it gets to Oh, damn. You know what I mean? Exactly. That's Yeah, that's the flood zone pictures and stuff.
It spreads and there'll be a buffer for that. Absolutely. That's those are those are DP. You can't build on that. You can't touch it. You can't I don't know the exact numbers, but you can't So that's for the engineer to design and the D there's DP regulations that you
follow. You can't build in wetlands. You can't great to design. We have laid out plans for this for that lot because it was originally supposed to be three lots when the original proposal was 138 to 150. Now you have two properties that
are right. His lot size is half what was originally proposed. You need a new proposal. Exactly. Exactly. You need a new application and proposal. Let them show the show they can build. Let's see. There will be one.
It's old. It's very old. No. So, the we as a council saw a preliminary plan that showed the streets and that showed the access and it's just a preliminary site plan with the actual units. They're duplex units, you know, that show the layout of everything. I made the comment
that he was originally going to have two street access roads to access, one for the low-inccome and then one for the regular development. Um, we said no to that because then that's going to be two new intersections which are going to create and it's going to cause even more conflict points and more traffic. So,
originally the original plan had two separate driveways and it was the two developments. So, I made the comment that we want one and then he's going to probably lose a couple houses when he does so and then create an offshoot or runway from that. But again, you can't touch, you can't grade any type of
property inside a wetland, you know, you inside a flood zone or anything like that. In the state of New Jersey, you're not allowed to. And this is because of D law and regulations. We don't like make those decisions, right? We hear from it's possible. It's not the proposal that's being considered in the plan,
just so you know, cuz that original proposal was for like 136 units. What's talked about here is 55 units. So the proposal that the councilman's speaking of is a plan that addresses the project that was in the housing plan, not the
project that was submitted in the third round years ago. So according to the developer, they've taken into consideration based on a new wetland study what the wetlands are and how much. What's described in the housing plan,
the 55 units? So don't get on her back. I'm talking about the attorney, right? you know, wasn't that she tried this poor woman. Go ahead. Sorry. You're
getting Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Your turn. Please. I came in a few minutes late, so I apologize if this word is spoken about. Um, sorry. Cynthia Celo, 16 Williamsburg Drive. Um,
I guess what I'm confused about, like what you said, Mr. shorters like knowing more, understanding more. As younger parents of kids in the the elementary school, we don't quite understand how all of this works. I know it's a very complex thing, but understanding which
meeting we're supposed to come to. You know, obviously, we all know we have tons of sports going on and things like that. So, we don't know when we have to plan our time to come and speak as the younger parents. So, if we could just have some more communication on that end, that would be absolutely great. Maybe even explaining this is what a planning board meeting is. This is what
X, Y, and Z is. Um maybe when you send out your Friday things if we can have a little more explanation. Um I you know I understand with the certain things I do have a concern with the Harrison thing and I know saying adding 11 units but I just want to keep in mind that whatever we continue to add on to Harrison,
Roosevelt, Lincoln, Williamsburg, Davenport, we are getting slammed and I my hugest concern is my kids can't even ride their bikes anymore in Williamsburg because now everybody wants to cut from Harrison to to to Eagle Rock through
those streets and those kids, our kids walk to Harrison to the complex all the time. So that's my concern is like constantly building up in the center of our town. Is there any way and like said I'm new to all this that we can force to push out towards where more like
Credential and and South Livingston A is that doesn't bring the building in the center, especially us people who live in between Eagle Rock and Harrison. That's that's certainly something that's been discussed and will continue to be discussed obviously at this point. And
just while you're getting up, remember guys, we we're not necessarily the engineers and the lawyers and the developers, right? We're hearing from all these people when they present to us. Council is advising us a certain way, engineers are advising a certain way, and we're just trying to take all the information and figure out what's best. And that's why the planning and the zone board are all in place, too,
because they all have to play their part. And this is just part of it playing out. and the last minute rush thing. I I understand, but everyone's against this timeline. What the council can do though is make sure before anything with phase four comes out, this there's some sort of presentation well
in advance, not, you know, two weeks, not you know, deals on the back, but let us have the information well in advance so we can make suggestions as well. I think the council owes the citizens that. I agree. But I also think that we turned
it over as timely as we could considering the timeline that we had with the Remember the plan was approved June 6th. It's June what today? 17th. So we got this plan on June 6th. I'm sorry. You know about that guy.
Okay. Backing out a year ago shouldn't be approved on June 6th. You should had three months to think about it, talk about it, have a meeting, have another meeting, come up with an alternative. But this plan was not until June 6th. Yes. Why is it still?
Yes, they all are. None of these projects are in zones that permit the projects that are proposed, which is why they're all farm is in zone for what's there. These projects all need to be have ordinances adopted for new zoning. That was sense. All right. Justin, um a
child. Uh I actually wanted to get up uh to basically have myself understand this process which is what a lot of people are kind of talking about and saying they don't know how the process goes, what to
expect. So it is true as as counselor you just said that none of these developers could actually build any of these proposed projects because they don't have the zoning. Correct.
Yes. And if they submit a plan and you uh come up with a housing plan that includes their plan, which you need to come up with a plan because you need that immunity. uh because that immunity allows you as a
council to make a plan as to where things are going to go and what they're going to contain which is much more preferable I think everybody would agree to courts deciding where people already don't like what the courts have decided with requiring all this to begin with
because it did start out with a court decision. Um but so if and and there's been some confusion with what I've heard that I myself have with what I've heard tonight. If once though the governing
body does approve this proposal, this plan, doesn't that in and of itself give these people the zoning that they need to build their projects? No. the ordinances ultimately have to be adopted. But
still, that's controlled by the governing body and the governing body gets to vote and pass those ordinances. And you would think if the governing body adopted this plan in order to get its immunity that it's going to follow through and adopt the ordinances or else it wouldn't make
sense to adopt the plan to begin with. So other than because because you've actually indicated with what you said here tonight that these projects have to go back in front of the planning board, which they would never be in front of in the first place because they don't have
the zoning. So they couldn't never go in front of the planning board because because the planning board only handles applications after their zoning. There's Right. But the ordinances will be in place to permit those uses. So they don't need to get a use variance from the zoning board. So, which is why they
go to the planning board, right? But that's cuz the the adoption of this plan by the governing body in essence gives them the zoning, although you have to go through the formality of passing the ordinance, but now they're in front of the planning board with their projects.
At that point in time, could the planning board say, "No, we don't want the project." Yeah. I mean, there it's still their right prerogative to review it if there's a rational basis. I mean if it's an arbitrary capriccious decision
they're subject to you know litigation but as long as there's a rational basis I mean if there's a justification like if the wetlands presentation on a project is wrong and really the project can't accommodate the number of units that they're proposing I mean council
can't control the planning board it is an autonomous agency planning board separately autonomous understand that but like for example to kind of I heard the things about this proposal proposal on Payic Avenue and that's been a proposal around for a long time and
there's always been known that a large portion of that track is wetland but the way the developer is going to deal with that is they're just going to build on the parts of the uh tract the land track that are not wetlands. So if if it's a
and I'm just taking numbers out of the air to illustrate the points because a lot of people are asking questions about this. there was a six acre track and four of them are wetlands and they're building 10 buildings with 55 units, they'll just build those 10 units with 55 units on the two acres that aren't
wetlands. But again, you know, I know that that even if you zone it resident, none of that meets any of the any of the ordinances that the bur already has in terms of setbacks and in terms of you know density or in terms of anything
like that. So, and those would all be rational basises to say we're not going to approve your plan as far as the planning board. So, what I don't understand is like you're giving them their zoning if you adopt their proposal
within your plan and you know when they go to the do they have to go to the planning board and if so, could the planning board reject the project? You're telling me they still can do that? If there's a rational basis, they can it's an autonomous board. they can do what they want. And wouldn't a rational
basis be that you don't satisfy any of the criteria of like you you're violating all our ordinances? The ordinances are will be changed to to accommodate the projects. Okay. So, as part of the governing body adopting the ordinance, the ordinance is not just
going to be giving them the zoning. The ordinance is going to be giving them in essence relief from all of the current requirements that that project would be subject to. able to accommodate the project just like every other project that was done in the third round that's being built now. There were ordinances
done in connection with the settlement and the KOA the third round um housing plan at that time to accommodate those projects. Okay. And so when they appeared back in front of the planning board then in fact they would uh the planning board really couldn't say you
don't satisfy this that or the other thing which all the other projects in the town have to satisfy because of this ordinance that the governing body just passed basically amending just those rules for this particular project. Yeah. Right. Okay. It's not much different
than when you enter into a redevelopment zone or a redevelopment agreement for a redevelopment project. Within that redevelopment plan that gets adopted with that project, you set forth the zoning. So the underlying zoning no no longer applies. So everything that's in
the plan is what governs how the project is going to be built. Right? But the point of all of this is that it's really on the governing body that it's really the governing body that is going to be deciding on an overall plan and on all
the projects within that plan because then the governing body is going to pass the ordinance that are essentially going to give them all of the relief from all the rules and regulations that are preventing from what they're doing. So, it's not really can't really say that
planning board is going to have are the people that are going to decide whether or not these projects are going to get built because once it gets there all of the potential problems that a planning board would address or say we're not going to allow you to do it or you got to change your proposal because of X Y and Z, you're already going to have
given them. So um what I have another question though what's the significance of the fact that the planning board voted no with respect to this proposal what is that what does that mean now does that
the plan the whole plan or so the whole plan so a whole different plan has to go back in front of the planning board again before the June 30th to submit the same plan and see if the planning board changes its mind But does the does the planning
board have to vote yes in order for this to go to the court? Yes. The the way the the rule the law is structured, it's the planning board that adopts or rejects the plan. Once the plan is adopted, then the council takes action to um accept
it, but it's it's ultimately adopted by the planning board. And if it's not, who makes the final decision? Who makes the final decision and the final? It's the planning board that has to if the planning board rejects it for it to June 30th the planning board planning board
has to approve it. It can't go it can't go to it can't be submitted to the state without the planning board approving approve over the planning board as well. Hi, Susan Felseer, 14 Green Avenue. I want to go at it a completely different
angle and I have some questions. Um, this is going to sound a little strange, but we just in West Caldwell they are building a new shop, right?
They went to the um sewer connection. They could not hook up to the sewer connection because they said it wasn't big enough. They had to pay and go to Fairfield. How are we going to hook up with all
these buildings to that same one? Or are we going to have to build our own sewer plant? Number one. Number two, the water in this town, as we all know, is a problem from Essex Fells. Now you're going to add all these buildings
with a water problem. What are we doing about it? And how are we hooking up to it when we don't have the facilities? Obviously, if they can't hook up one shop, rightight to the sewer system, how are we going to hook up all these buildings? Or are these buildings all
going to be built and they're going to stand there empty like a bunch of skeletons until we can fix these problems, which could be years? How come there's no answers? Which which buildings are you referring to? You referring to the entire all the
different projects or or just specifically Bake Avenue? Even one. Okay. So, all the all the projects um they're existing office buildings. So, there's already infrastructure in place. They're not as big as what you're planning to put in. There weren't as many bathroom or water or So, there what
I'm saying though is that there's they're going to have to develop it. So, I don't know how many I don't know how many employees worked at those office buildings, but when they were fully occupied, there were there was quite a bit of cars there and there's quite quite a bit of traffic. True. So, that's that's an daily that's not overnight either. That's not the same as
development. It's actually probably worse um from a you know a eight hour you know impact you know when people are working during the day prior to co prior to people working from home. Um so it's probably more of an impact and more of a surge during you know the daytime hours
than people at night or whatever. Um, but I disagree with you there because most of the town's people are then working and they're not home using their facilities so it evens out possibly. But showers and wash machines. No, exactly. But just to say as far as the
infrastructure, the infrastructure is in place. Obviously, they're going to have to make improvements to it. Any developer is going to go in there is going to have time to it, but it exists on Becker Farm Road. The sake avenue buildings were even before they even knocked down the other buildings. This should have been addressed.
Because like I said, you built all these buildings on Becker Farm Road on Harrison Avenue. Now you want this one, but I don't hear any plans to improve our sewer or water system. Go ahead. Each of these projects, each of these projects, it's the developers
that would make the applications for sewer connection or water connection. They go to the respective facilities, whether it's the Cobalt Sewer Authority or they go to Essex Fells for the water. It's not the the burrow if those facil if those locations tell them there isn't
sewer capacity. It's our understanding that global sewer is saying they have capacity for various projects and additional development. But if they go to those places and they tell them that they can't build because there isn't capacity. The township has fulfilled its
obligation by designating those projects. If they can't get built, they can't get built. That's not the fault of the burrow. That's those facilities telling them there isn't capacity. Those developers will then have to pay to upsize the lines. Maybe they have to build another sewer plant or they have
to do an extension, but that's their obligation. That's not the room to build that. We don't then those projects just don't aren't going to ultimately happen. But the burrow is still obligated. But then those projects are good to go. They have water and sewer already. If a
project is built, that's one of the first things you have to do after you get your approvals is get your capa is your commitment from the D. I don't think they're hooked up yet because if you look there's no there's no digging for water and sewer in a lot of those
places. Bet you that they have approvals from the authorities. They may not have put the lines in yet, but that's one of the first things you do after you get your approvals because if you don't have water and sewer, you don't have a development. Anybody can put up a development, that doesn't mean that it gets sold or rented. Well, that's a
whole different all part of this. And if we don't solve those problems, we've got bigger problems and nobody's addressing it. Nobody. Hi, good afternoon council and mayor.
Uh, my name is Michelle Savo. I'm at 132 Pake Avenue in Rosland. I've been a resident for 30 years. I kind of talked to Spiel last night in the planning. Um, a little I'm a little uh I don't even know how to explain it. um
discerning about this this comm this uh board here. Um I I want clarification. Do we have a certificate for the third round approval of up to 2025? No, the third round through 2025. That's
what this is the fourth round. The fourth round goes to 30 2035. 2025 to 2035. Yeah. So as of right now, the third round. Yes, we have a certificate. We We're certified. It's approved. Yep. That was done 2019. Right. Yeah. When
was that done? I think it was 1920. 2019. It was I think it was October of 19. Okay. I I just wanted to confirm that cuz it's a little confusing. Yes. A lot of things are confusing. So, I need clarification.
Um, and I'm just, you know, I feel that we were being um not represented that like like I was saying I agree with everyone the first year there was a year that passed. Okay.
and um since 2024 and you know the delay results now in adverse consequences such as builder remedy lawsuits that can is is going to happen and now we're here rushing the development
approvals and um I basically want to know you know why we were not informed. I I I feel like we were left in the dark. I mean, I've been to I've been wa I've been at every board meeting since 200 uh to since 2024.
Okay? There's no quorum. It was canceled. There's nothing on the schedule. So, why was this not addressed? Why why didn't the planning board have a quorum? That's on the No, not the quorum. It was canceled. There weren't
enough applications on there. So if if they knew since 2024 about this, it should have it it should have been addressed. It should have been addressed. I I I'm kind of losing a little bit of the um the integrity of of of this community
knowing that, you know, you waited a year and now we're under the gun and and you're you're proposing a property that you had all the um application. However, the property has changed since
2022. Okay. So, are you all looking like before you go and approve something? Yes, it's in the proposal stage, but how could you still bring that property into the fourth the fourth round?
It it kind of proposal that's included in the plan is based on the property as it is today. It's not the proposal from 2022. Okay. Who has that document? Yeah. Who has the proposal? Yeah. Where is the proposal?
I think I don't remember if they included it in the plan or No, it's not in there. Yeah, it's in the back. [Music] H 30, I think. Yeah, there's a description of what the plan is in or
the project in the plan. I thought it was page 13. I thought it was in the book that Okay. And I also I I I have something in here to show you about also the flooding, the heat, you know. Um I don't know, maybe the board should take a look
at this how how it all goes down the stream and and and it the the it's eroding. Nobody's um taking it in accountable. Um we just keep building and not worrying about the water in Rosland.
It's not fair to not just because of me. I'm downstream. But I've seen floods and it the bridge on P Avenue. It collap it's it almost, you know, they wrote it out. It goes down to P, you know, Picaran
that the water keeps going. Where what are you doing about all this water? It gets to that second, third, and fourth Avenue where Yeah. S avenue. There's there's North Pin and there's down there and he's had the water in his basement. It's flooded really bad and
hard is eroded here. It's just that it's backing up from P, you know, the Pac River. Where where is it all going? You're next door. Remember when you were flooded out by work was doing a couple years ago something? Remember you had something on the side? Oh, yeah. The storm. It It's
actually Yeah, it's eroding underneath and I have a a cave now under that my grandson can run and fall into four feet of water. I mean uh you know it's just it's just being ignored. This is a problem
right now spreading all that acreage back there. It's not organized. Exactly. Aqueduct bring that water through. It only gets organized when it's going underneath the G storm. Exactly. Okay. So what you have is you're going to have all this spreading
water. Now that builder is going to go in there. They're going to raise the grade and all that water is going to come streaming through there. Yeah. I mean, but Karen, I mean, those homes over there. Yeah. Actually, there's turbulence now. Second, third. Trust me.
Yeah. A lot more. I mean, you look at that. You look at that Becker Farm Road is right going right into that stream. Take a good look. Okay. So, yeah, I understand we want to build there, but you know, we need to take accountable for the this water. Listen, we don't want to build anywhere.
Okay. Just to make like we we don't want to build anywhere. Now, let me be very clear about that. None of us, if nothing went up in Rose End until I died, I'd be totally fine with that. None of us want to build anything. We are obligated to. Yeah, they might not have any buildable land. They don't any buildable land. No,
they don't want this in their They don't want No, it's not because they don't want it. Yeah. We're sitting here. I'm listening to this now, Brad. I'm not hearing commentary about alternative sites, right? It's not right. Well, no. Listen, you're going to get another plan. And
then the public will hear it again. And but honestly, it's annoying. No, it's not silence. I want to hear I want to hear all can't talk. We You're not going to get alternative proposals in in open public session until there's a plan adopted again. It's going to go to the planning board. You'll have the chance to speak again
publicly and it'll go to a council meeting for public comment as well. There's exposure if we talk about it. There's exposure until there's nothing to present. That's the only That's the only reason. Yeah. And it'll come before the planning board and it'll come before this council again and you guys have to come out and be
heard again. I mean when I when I moved in this town 30 years ago that stream was 25 ft. Okay. What is it now? Does anybody know how how wide it is? Does anybody know? since all these buildings went up. You got Rosen Green, you got
Rosen Glenn, you got the the um the Arborist or Sunrise that it was at the time. You got Eagle Rock all going in that stream. Becker Farm Road going all in that stream. Credential. Credential.
It's on that map. Look at the map. Okay. Look how wide it's gotten. Hello. Are you trying to flood me? Is that what my house is right there? Look at the map. Look in my house. Do you think that's fair? Would you want that to happen to you? Listen, I got flooding
the last time, too. I live in the area where we get I got I got a sump that goes and if the generator goes on, my basement's flooded. I've done my I've done my basement three times, so I know exactly what you're talking in the same boat. It's not I know exactly. Ordinance to protect people's properties and
they're not being used. Yeah, maybe maybe the property needs to have like an overflow tank that's like Yeah, like do so every single every single development that comes in has to abide by storm water
regulations. So the D is involved with that. So So the way the way it works for any developer, and this is even somebody's doing any type of impervious coverage on your own property, you have to put in a drywall. So for a m major subdevelopment like this, they're going to have to put
in basins. You're required to keep any type of storm water runoff that you create from impervious coverage on your property. That's the law in New Jersey. Everybody has to abide by it. So the planning board will have their board engineer take a look at it and he'll be reviewing those reviewing that. So it's
not like somebody's going to go out there and willy-nilly do what they want. They're going to have to follow the rules. Now they have to have a best management practices and they need to make sure that they, you know, maintain their basins and their drywalls and clean them out and everything and most developers don't do that. They go in there, they build, they do it. So then
the capacity of these things aren't as great as they are down the road. So when you're looking at 20, 30 years down the road, it's it's very rare that somebody actually keeps them accountable. But when it's built, it needs to be built according to a code. So Okay. Just to know, I got that on Geo Web the the New Jersey. Yep. I use it every day from
that. Yeah. So you're familiar with that. But um I it's just also I mean I really would like to field investigation on that that creek. I think there's people going in that are connected to we don't even know that are their properties. I I know off of uh I see up
by uh Bernwood or whatever there's there's water drinking in there. So that's so if you actually are aware of properties that are doing that there is a legal discharge that you're not allowed to do. And yeah, water being by all means reach out reach out to the bureau. You can send me an email. Our
code enforcement office go out there and take a look at it. If somebody's illegally discharging water into there's uh flow from other places that are are going into that. That's what I mean. Yeah, exactly. So you can't you should you guys should be do that. You can't just take like you know your patio and
then just put it in directly into the street. It's actually Well, I see anything. It could be somebody's house, their gutters, whatever. You need to you need to you need to capture that water first. put it into a dry well and then the overflow, you know, based off of the design storm that the, you know, usually it's like a three inch storm over a one
inch or one hour period. Um, water will go into there and then your overflow can go into the stream or whatever. But you have to maintain that water any type of development on your property. Okay. And and all these trees falling down. How many times I got to call the school because they're blocking the uh stream.
It's just needs to be stabilized. this stream north. I What are your plans? Do we have any? So that would be our burough engineer that would need to look into that. If you have specific locations that you want them to look into, absolutely you could shoot me. You could send me any.
So it is it's coming from upstream to maintain it. Yes, that's exactly nothing nothing nothing has been improved. It's just a shame that is turning
around. If somebody complains, they turn around and say, "Well, you're the resident, so you can pay to widen your part of the Brook." No. Uhuh. That should be county or state. It should not be the individual owner.
That water is really picking up speed going on the say down. You know, look at the bridge. Look at the storm. You'll see absolute water through there. That's a county culvert right there. So, and all the culverts in the town are the county. No, but I'm just telling you that who's
responsible for that? Who's the lison on? Get in touch with them. Absolutely. Yeah, it's always Yeah. Go to this one. Go to that one. Who Who's the boss here? Who's the boss? Thank you. Sure. County executives in
town. Yeah. I just had a a question that will lead into something. So essentially, we're just forced to build until we have no more buildable land. Is that where we're at right now? Like I just want to understand that. Okay. Continued to by you know, the governor
and the state and everything. We just have to keep building and there's nothing else we can do until we basically like said run out land. So my biggest concern with all of that no okay that is I mean I voted for most of
you because you said you'd protect Noacer. That was the biggest concern we had all these years ago. uh our special needs department or maxed like even with the referendum and the building that just incorporated just the numbers that
is being currently built. So now we have all these other you want to add 75 units. Okay, I have to tell you the truth. I spoke to the superintendent the other day. He had no idea that that was even happening. So he had no idea about Pose. So how like so Pose would have been age restricted.
So Pose wouldn't have any impact on the school. Wouldn't have any. So I want to make sure because if it gets moved somewhere else it will be a bigger impact on the street. That's that's the biggest concern. Like I've heard things about um about the credential campus that all the where what are we going to do? Because the other thing is is that
for many years now we've had the threat assessment every year we have on Noacer and we have an excellent like low threat on our school because we're so bordered by the trees and our kids are protected and that's why they our kids can so freely go on the blacktop without
certain extra levels of security is because of we have such a low threat assessment because of the tree line. So I'm not quite sure where all the building would take place or how far it would reach back to Noacer but that would be my concern. Now the cold extensions coming through the front. How much of we would we lose if we have to
build on Pay? Like how much in like you know why it was presented to us. It kind of reminded me of how Stonegate looks where you don't really see anything. Everything's kind of in the back. I live one block away from Stonegate. Stonegate's never been a problem for me personally. Um that's what it looked
like in the plans when it was presented to me. Stonegate like you don't really see the houses. It's all kind of back. I'm sure I don't I never I never have to make a left out of there or anything. I I couldn't tell you, but I you know, Stonegate's kind of Well, town houses. They're town houses. Yeah, they only go
up They only go up to So, it's four stories. So, so it was it was going to be 22. It was going to be like 22 duplex duplex units and then there was one apartment building for the low income which was separated from the
side. So it's it's basically like 22 houses, you know, duplex units times two gives you the 44 plus the 11 for the apartment. You know, that's that's the way it was presented to us. The apartment building, I don't think it was four floors. I think it was I think it was two. It was two in under underground parking garage below it. Everything was
two. Yeah. Yeah. Underground. No, not in not in wetlands. It's not in wetlands. The wetlands are in the valley. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Build is not wetlands, you're going to
create a huge water problem. Again, every development has to do. Yeah. I don't think so. No, but yeah, exactly. But that's the way that's the way engineers are designing things. feasibility study or you can put it into
your plan plan obviously once it goes in the plan it's a done deal but this gentleman Ethan Jesse Cheff I just have another question so just procedurally
uh does the is it the governing body that passes a resolution adopting the plan and then it goes to the planning board. No. Or does the plan that people are talking about go to the planning board and then they vote on it and then if they approve it, it goes back to the
governing body and then the governing body passes the resolution latter. Tom, the planning board votes it first. They have to either approve it or reject it. So like last night, the planning board rejected it. So there's nothing the council can do. the council does not have the power to override the planning
board. But then if the planning like the the planning the plan that got in front of the planning board that doesn't have to be approved in any way by resolution or otherwise by the governing body. No, it has to be approved by resolution by the planning board and then it's
submitted to the state. So like this plan that you're trying to come up with, does the governing body ever vote on that plan? After the planning board adopts it, then the planning board affirms it in their resolution.
So I asked the same question. Does the governing body ever by resolution have to adopt the plan? Well, it's not actually adopting the plan. It's basically like affirming the the plan that's been adopted by the planning board. The adoption is by the planning board. Okay. But so whatever goes in
front of the planning board, the governing body doesn't have to approve that first or propose it. So it just goes in front of the planning board and then they vote on whatever is in front of them and then if they approve it, the governing body still it doesn't come back in front of the governing body for
public hearings or anything like that. At that time it goes to the state and then it you know at some point in time it comes back to the governing body to to do an ordinance. No. So what's what's the procedure with this? The planning board either adopts it or rejects it.
And then within 48 hours of a planning board taking action, if assuming it's adopted, within 48 hours of the planning board adopting it, the plan has to be submitted to the state. Thereafter, the plan comes to the to the council for
them to affirm that that action has been taken. And then shortly thereafter, I forget what the exact date is, maybe by the end of the summer, September, the ordinances have to be in place or at least drafts of the ordinances have to
be worked on and submitted to the state showing that those changes to the zoning have been done to uh accommodate the plan. So, how does what the planning board consider get to the planning board? How do they something goes on
their agenda? H that that plan that goes on their agenda, where does it come from? Do they you know, doesn't it come from the governing body? Yes. The governing body gave them a housing plan for them to consider and the governing body doesn't have to have a resolution on that.
No. So then the public really never gets to see the plan that the governing body is proposing to the planning board. Well, they see it at the planning board. That's the purpose of the meeting. They don't see they don't see it here with the people that it originates with. No.
And that's not that's not cuz we do it that way. But that's just how that's the way if you look at every municipality process. That's not us. Just the way it's working. So let me see if I understand. So you can't overrule the planning board. N. So we have a planning board
that's unelected by us, the citizens, making the decisions and the people we elect can't manage them. So I guess the question I have is what control is there to make sure that they're acting? I'm
not saying I'm not questioning anybody's integrity, but what's the typically in business you you would have, you know, checks and balances. It seems like unelected and no oversight. That's what I'm hearing. Is that a fair
statement or am I wrong? If I'm wrong, please. Again, the only control is that it's the council that prepares the plan that gets presented to the planning board. But these are procedures set by the state. This isn't us and this isn't Rosland deciding this is so I guess what
we could do then is maybe the council can decide since we have ability to influence whether you get elected or not. You can appoint the members of the of the planning board. At least then that they have responsibility to answer to you and we hope they have
they still don't have responsibility to answer to us though. They still don't they're a you could take them away. You can reappoint if you could we could choose not to reappoint. You can impeach them, right? Isn't that impeachment?
That was my attempted humor. Okay. But I think that got to look at that because it seems to me if somebody wanted to do some crazy things uh they could do it probably and I'd like to think you know we put some controls in place
really best place to impact release bills, correct? You guys have unfortunately. Unfortunately, you're right. Bill taking away recreation from our kids. Yeah. Every single time we put in one of these
plans, we're taking away recreational fields from our kids. Is there a way to limit not the the affordable housing, but to limit how much you can build? So, like to limit how high you can go, how many units you can put? That's it.
negotiated like is there any way to go back to the way that like my felt like the Williamsburg Dport is built and have homes with properties like is there any way to find soldiers and go back to that where it's a community rather than feeling like you're stacking high and
letting it fly like they can't go higher I mean they can't go higher no I know still like you're like I'd say go back to what's being built in Harrison they're huge and it's just houses. It's just houses that were built in the 60s.
Well, on Pake Avenue, we tried that years ago. Jesse, you were our council uh when I was up here and we asked, "Why don't you just build five or six houses instead of humongous units?" And he said, "No." And came back to sue us. You
guys, you know, like say whatever, it's six acres, you can build 15 houses. Like, can you control that? Is that just explain to me how that works? The zoning is already We don't have to prove the zoning.
I just wanted to understand like how much they have court launch if they get we lose our immunity. Correct. It's a negotiation and it's based on what the develop the plans that are presented to us. This is this is the issue. They these they want to make money. We don't we don't want to give
them money. None of us want to do any of this. None of us eight years been none of us lower low and moderate. It's all three low and moderate. Some of them it's all three. I think it's a third, a third, a third.
I don't remember exactly what the breakdown. It's based on state law requires it to be a certain percentage of low, moderate. Exactly. You're saying some of them have to be low, some have to be moderate. income
and some affordable, some like very low very low. There's different income thresholds, state sets for for the third to third. 11 is split categories and and there's there's not an
opportunity to just do single family homes on that same property and accomplish these goals. Not there. We wish there was We wish there was that would have been that would have been the thing. Wish wish they would do that.
We have to start looking at what is being built in this town and how it's being built. Fourth Avenue, for example, there was a house taken down there and a huge house is being put in its place. On Green
Avenue, you have on the corner, they call it the boat house, the boat house. Call it what you want it to. 15 years we have been looking at that thing being green and it's no better than it was years ago. The woman that
lived at the very first house on Green Avenue wanted to build a little house on that property for her mother-in-law and it was turned down by everybody. And now all of a sudden we have this big monstrosity there. And it is a monstrosity. It's only a couple feet
from the brook. It's only a couple of feet from Pic Avenue and a couple of feet from Green Avenue. There's going to be an accident on that corner when those people move in cuz they parked on the street. You can't get in and out of their driveway. It's going to be a mess.
But approved it. It's okay. You can build there. When I was building my house after the fire, the planning board put us through the mill. Who said you could build that big a house? Who said you could move up
the garage? Who said you could do this, that, and the other thing? I said, "Look, look at your plans. It's my contractor. He lives next door." Oh. All of a sudden, everybody shut up. Uhuh. It's who you know, who gets paid,
and who can make best deal. I'm sorry, but you'll never convince me of anything different. And now it's the same thing. We're looking at water problems. We're looking at sewer problems. We're going to look at a paid fire department, more
cops, and I hope we have a chief, not a director. Dear Jesus, more first aid is already half paid. Did any of you know that we are already paying our first aid squad? We're not paying our first aid
squad. We are the burrow is not paying the first aid squad squad. Now it is no longer completely volunteer. It's that's not 100% accurate. the there they charge there's
the you have the section of volunteers and then you have the paid service which is run by the volunteers that paid service only charges your insurance company right they don't charge you they they I
don't know they don't come after you to balance bill if you're a Roseland resident but that was the only way that we were able to get the response times down from 45 minutes to 7 minutes and how 24 by7 they have a 24 Yes, I was
just going to say that now it's 24/7. It's no more just Wednesday nights. We could not get volunteers for the day. We tried. This has taken four years. Director Matias and I had worked on it for four years to get something like that in this town. And finally, finally,
after four years, we now have 247 emergency SWAT. We have three. And if you saw the agenda, the burrow was buying them another one. It's the first one the burrow has bought in the since it was concept con 1980. since it was started
in 1980. The burrow is now paying because we see the need for extra units and it's going to take three years to get that ambulance. The burrow has now agreed and we've decided for the betterment of the community, we needed a new ambulance. So, it's on the agenda
tonight to buy a new ambulance. Residents also know that we cover other towns for mutual aid. Yes, we ambulances do go out of town. Yeah, like every other ambulance service, they all go through. They all do mutual aid and they help us and we help them. The squad as
big as West Essex. We shouldn't have to know and we cover probably for West Essex because they can't get their volunteers either. The And they're 100% volunteers. They can't get them. No. I thought there was one of the
ambulance where paid for by one of developers at a time. They brought one. ADP brought an ambulance years ago. Yeah. I don't I don't remember that to be honest. No. It wasn't John. John is Well, what kind of car? It was a command vehicle, not an Well, some vehicle. They
paid, right? Well, my point is are these developers that are coming in and they're building all over and they obviously we have a problem. You got to you got to you got to somehow accomplish the color requirement. But the the question I have is what is
their contribution to the infrastructure of the town? Now, very good points raised. Very good, good points. The one of the developers we can I can I speak to it what we got from you got to watch. Yeah, I mean that was I I I don't want
to One of the developers we asked the question of they came back and offered us a very nominal um community benefit donation. We did our one of the developers we pressed for a
community benefit donation. They came back very low and I don't want to speak to numbers without counsel. We went back at them and they came back in significantly but we don't get to see that money until they're built until they get the certificate of occupancy. But yes, we went along that line with a developer about installable for these
developers to be expected in the home in the home that I grew up in down in Alison. Okay. The builder was up. They came in. They built all the sidewalks. They had to clear and and and and build all the roads and everything. So the infrastructure was 100% on the
developer. Correct. All the gas hookups, everything. Correct. And that'll be the same here. We don't have any We don't have any sidewalks. We're asking what you're saying is the new projects over on Becker Farm. They're all being required to build sidewalks so that they connect to town.
That's part of what the planning board, but that's absent the community benefit that that the burough will derive from them. They can't they they can't but the council at least this governing body committed to making sure no echer has their fair share. So it would be un if
there's a tax abatement in place if it's regular tide. It would be unfair of us to pass the tax along to the school board. So we want to make sure they get their fair share if it wouldn't be very responsible of us to have no tax increase and then noer has to raise it 10%. So whether where we can make no
echo, we this council has committed to. We just can't legislate that. It's got to be a council's decision each year. By whatever our money that we have to go to September, I should have said no. I should have said this the schools. Excuse me. I just think no one
last page of the course by collect the diagram they the project they presented was around the wet zone. It was in a buildable area according to Okay, I'm looking at it.
Off the table is the only one left. 150 out of it. Is 144 now off the table. That's not accurate. I don't 144. I think that's big old house. Sure. This says 138. No, 144 I believe is not I
believe it's only 138. 138. I believe it's only 138. Why did they last night they said 138 is only they they removed the other block from because I think that was a typo. I was last night. So you're saying oh okay
written proposal from the developer for 138 only. They sent an updated plan I want to say was it last week or something like that and then then that's where they removed the uh the address 150. I can't speak to motivation for
that property. Sure. Unfortunately, all all the developers are unfortunately. Oh. Oh. Oh, of course. The developer. They both attorney. She was there with
the attorney. His wife, his ex. They're going to come after the planning board of town council. They had a plan for supposed years that had been approved and now last night
as an owner of that property was expecting they didn't have a plan tenatively approved. The one from 5 years ago was never approved. We went through litigation and we fought that for years. The 55 the smaller one. So that was only a month round.
But it hasn't been approved. It was just part of the proposed draft plan that was put on the burough website on June 6th. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah. We can't we can't submit that because the planning board denied it last night. So, the town's been in litigation with them previously. Oh,
yeah. For a long time. We originally wanted to do 150 units. 180 180 180 units. Was the results of litigation? It cost us about $600,000, but we did prevail obviously. But
we're opening ourselves up to that again if it doesn't go through obviously. I've come up with an alternative. Well, he can still sue anybody. Anybody can expose us to it's a move in
an alternative site. Oops. We hear you. Absolutely hear him. Hey, evening. Uh Aaron Zabau, 37 Monroe Avenue, Rosland. Uh nowhere near um this proposed project, I'm say. Um
so building's coming, right? Um if you don't like that, get out and and don't vote Democrat in New Jersey. I don't know what to tell you, but they have an impossible job here. We got to put units up somewhere. We got it. Um, but it
needs to be done properly. Just it does. And in in my estimation, not even living on that side of town, uh, this proposal that was denied last night by the planning board, thank goodness, uh, would be a disaster. So, a couple
questions. Um, have we, you said we have the certificate for our phase three. Is that correct? Last night, was it Mr. Block? Is that his name? Yes. Yes. He said that we're 11 units short. Is that correct? So, we have the
certificate, but we're short because the concrete plant. Understood. SRM, is that the concrete? JMF. When did they pull out? How long ago did we know about this?
Was it October or something like that? October of November. Less than a year. Less than a year. November. That's nine months. I guess I put this out. Eight months. November. And when did we know about our June 30th deadline?
We applied for the extension in Well, we applied for the the I think that was last month. I think the numbers the numbers were released in no end of October, beginning of November for round four. Our professionals reviewed them. We accepted our number I
believe in February of 2025. And our number right now is 152 and four, 11 from three, and 38 credits. Is that correct? Yes, I believe so. Okay. What? What was the 38 credits? Wait, hold on.
Check. You mean like bonus credits? You mean he said he said we had credits? Oh, okay. Maybe maybe 152 11 163 less 38, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Um,
so last night, Mr. Block also said that there were several plans that they reviewed, yet there was one plan that was presented to the planning board. Are there other plans to satisfy those units in 13 tomorrow be 12 days? Do we have
another plan? We're going to come up with one. Is there any other that have been discussed? We have options. I don't know if we have plans. That's options within the plans that are there. Is that a better way to satisfy that number? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be so bold to ask us what those are.
We're going into executive session after this to discuss our options. I mean, I can ask my question either way. Do any of those alternative options include this proposal at the 138 block
on Avenue? Maybe discuss about a meeting we haven't had. So you made a comment to comment like I can't comment that public. You made a comment earlier public Mr. Chev was up here and you said that you can take that
same plan give it back to the planning board. We could. My question would be why would we do something like that that was reviewed and already denied? It would be backing us more into the corner than we already are. I mean, we are back into a corner right now. Nobody said we were going to do it. We said we could.
Okay. Um because like I said, the last minute scramble, I mean, we're we're in we're in a in a corner and it feels like it's of our own making and we've been in the corner for a while with it too. Um I don't know. I I don't want to say
anything harsh because I'm friends with a lot of you, but it feels like we're here because of just some poor decisions that we made. And this Manny Olive sat here last night. He looked at Mr. Block and he looked at everybody out here and he said, "Why am I seeing this two weeks
before the deadline?" Planning didn't meet several times, right? They're an autonomous group, Mr. Z. That's not us. We're appointed. They have to meet. When was it presented to them? It was present on June 11th. Noth.
So it was presented to them 26 days before the deadline. Is that enough time? Yeah. Well, should be enough time. 26 days. So I received I'm on the planning board. So I received the package, you know, in my mailbox uh I guess. Yeah. Last week or the 6th.
I'm making no accusation, but it feels right. Like I know a bunch of you guys are very smart people. This feels like it was rushed in, like the decisions were calculated, that they were purposeful. Just feels that way. And I'm not making any suggestions that they
were, but um it feels like you made the suggestion already. I think you think you kind of did make the suggestion and I'm going to take umbrage to it. But go ahead. Are you suggesting they got it on the 6th is 24 days timeline?
I made this comment last make a decision like this. Is 24 days enough? I I I don't know. I'm not I like to your point, I haven't spent my career in public service. Is that a standard? No, I made I made the comment I made the comment last night that we got um for Becker Farm Road pulled out and that was
supposed to be all age restricted development and then they went they changed the plan on us about 2 months ago. So when that occurred we pivoted and we looked at different alternatives 138 and 150 being you know one of those
alternatives 138 now 138 just come now like we've been working on this for more than the six months or seven months I mean you could have came to all the meetings so for so for backer firmware was part of this part of the plan and then they changed it on us two months ago and that was the first question we
asked you go back to them and tell them we asked the question we said why isn't this a restricted anymore and they just No, you know, they they want to do this now. You guys are the pickle. I understand. But I'm Listen, I'm not going to sit here and get accused of doing stuff that you know.
Well, there's some allegations. There's some implications. Let's say he's just saying it's unfortunate we're here. You had a little more to say than that than that. We've all said that in a position that we shouldn't be in. But you said a little more, right? That you thought someone was I'm sorry. Paging it. No, that's how you said it.
That's not that's not beyond the possibility of real with with municipalities. Wait till the end hour and then jam stuff through, right? I think this I think this governing board has coverage, but it does look a little like that. It's fine. But you guys could look at what this
council has done over the last however long and I think that we've have the reputation for serving the the city and the town very well. That's why we're here because you know what? It's unusual. I led with I appreciate what you guys do for this town. I just wanted to ask I want to understand you said that who who changed
the for Becker Farm Road is the property right across the street from the fire station. It's the empty office building and they were going to do a bunch of units all age restricted. It was going to help us meet our numbers and then they went and they changed the plan on us about two months ago. The developer,
you know, I don't even know. Yeah. Yeah. just we can't there's no so we didn't have an approved plan or whatever it's just a preliminary you know concept plan that they gave to us and then so they they came to us and we have it
as part of this plan it's in the plan that but it's no age restrict but it's not age restricted anymore say no you have go back to the age restricted like I just want to understand what no they have they have no say that and they can say projects so
then you have those units that you'd have to fill like the units that that project might have been able we did go back to them and try to right convince them to do age restricted we were unsuccessful clarifying age restricted is not part of Mount
Laurel and the low houses correct we want the age we as a town wanted age restriction that is not part of our obligation but it would have it would have but it gives us credit gives us credit to be age restrict restricted and it and it's less of burden on the, you
know, school system and No. Yeah. No, I understand all of that, but it's not part of this June 30th. It could be part of project four of whatever round four, but it's really not part of getting us out of this round three June 30th. Is
that correct? Everything is everything is June 30th. Round four is June 30th. We're just going to make up from the 3rd. We have some wiggle room because we have until the till 2035. plan to submit a plan. No. Yes. Correct.
They don't have to build. Right. All we have to we have to have a plan filed and have it approved. I did hear that. Could Yes. When is the time we're meeting next to adopt this whatever you guys June 30th assuming that we have a quorum. I was emailed
this afternoon and asked if I would be there. Um, I'm sure all the other members of the planning board were as well. They email everybody individually because we can't have a group email before the same thing as yesterday. Correct. No, no, the planning board is
the opposite or rejects it. Affirm it. The council only they endorse it after the planning board takes its action. But the action of the planning board has to happen or June 30th. No, we can we can do it the next we don't have to be the 30. We can be the next day or the day after.
late. No, no, we're not late. It's June 30th is the planning board. This is the planning board's action. The plan has to be filed by June 30th. My request is this. In business, when we have problems, uh where there are major snapos or step
ups, whatever you want to call it, we would get the people involved. They would have to come in. They would have to give us an analysis of what happened, what went wrong. So it would be your group and the planning board. Help us understand how all this confusion occurred, all this lack of
communication. One doing an afteraction review we used to call it and then understand what needs to change not only between the two of you, your group and their group, but the interaction with towns people. I think that's a fair
request. uh as opposed to well they did he we did that both parties present explaining to the town's people what happened because this is only for this problem there could be other issues that come up in the future have nothing to do with affordable housing and if we have
these this kind of confusion that's not I don't think we can rejoin them can we I don't know if other people feel the same way we already have less people here by a substantial margin because last night because they felt that it was it was
table. That's the reason it is. They made the point last night that the town council was meeting tonight. They can only vote on what the town council sends. Right. Right. Okay. Well, the council is nice enough to let before
they do their business to let us express our opinions. So, you don't think we're we're we're owed an afteraction review or something? That's that's beside the point. What I'm saying is we don't have the same amount of people we had last night and it's the next night. If ever
people were upset by it and called to action by it, it should be tonight. Well, it was first of all, it was an online petition that was going around. When I signed it last night, it was 364 signatures. That's not a small amount of people. No, there was a ball thing
tonight because of the wall for school. It was the last day of school and there was a big thing and half those parents I guarantee you are were over there because you could hear it through the through the thing. That's what we were hearing. So those parents had other priorities tonight and they were here
last night and they felt that it was satisfying. I don't we don't need a thousand people to fill up the window. We we're hearing you. I'm listen we hear what you're saying. I I get it and I it's it's not Listen, we had this most of the stuff that we're discussing we discussed already in executive session.
We h we we hashed a lot of this out and this is what we thought was best for the town. Now we're hearing from you guys. We'll go to executive session. We'll do our part. We'll go back to the planning board and we have to go through this process again because that's how government's set up and a lot of the rules are not rules that we make. Rules that we have to play by.
You could let 15. Well, it's not 150. It's only 138. Yeah. Could we present that to the planning board? Yeah, we could. Doesn't sound like a logical choice at this point, but we could. Even though it's not approved build,
not zoned to be built. Well, none of the properties are none of them are. That's none of them. Setting up a lawyer's dream. We get advice from council, too. Well, not on a rock hard place. It's not
just at this point. We would have been between a rock and a hard place if this plan went ahead of the board seven months ago. If we came up with it the day was presented, we'd still be between a rock and a hard place to get. Yes. changed and that same
year or two down there so much wetlands can't build there and you come up with another alternative for the next 10 years I'd have to defer to council out of the planning world this is Ethan Jesse Sheff again Southport
from what I've heard From what I've heard today, I have the utmost confidence that the governing body is going to be able to come up with a plan that is not going to include that bay gap project and they're going to be able to do so by June 30th. So
that's that's what I've heard here tonight reading between the lines. Sorry, Priscilla, I couldn't get to you. I knew I wanted to. Priscilla Norvayas, I live down on Godfrey Avenue. So,
realistically, I'm not affected by Pit Karen, but or I should say to say, Gabby, aside from driving on it, more cars, more people, more mess, but that's not where I'm going to go with this
right now. When you say 11 units, how many what is that? Is that 11 apartments? Yes. Is it 11 buildings? 11 apartments.
It's correct. It's 11. It's 11 dwellings. Whether it would be an apartment or a townhouse, it's 11 dwellings. It's not 11 buildings. You're talking about 11 dwellings. I believe it's one building in the plan. The 11, right? You know, but I think she's asking if it's specifically an apartment or it's a building or it's a house. It
could be 11 houses and correct me if I'm wrong or it could be 11 apartments. It's 11 dwellings. It's just 11. It's not like it's 11 dwellings. No, I think it's I think it's one or two buildings. Correct. 11. Are you asking specifically about the
plan in Payic or you asking generally generally get there? Okay. But now looking at the plan of Paic, that gentleman purchased a piece of property with a house that he renovated.
Now he's going to subdivide that property, house on each side. Now he wants to Now that paperwork's already done. How is he allowed to subdivide again?
Another unit in there. That's where the old houses, right? That's a different property. You know who's it's it's a different property and they're keeping that house. And I think believe they're put next to keep that
house. Put one on each side. Back property. Right. But now with that building that's going to go behind. No, it's over to the side. No, the old white house. That's right
there. That sits back right now. You see that goes on there. Okay. That's that piece of property. All right. Now, how is putting that? You're putting that there where there's wetlands. It's going to affect the water table. Of
course, uh probably, but I don't know exactly where D fit into this approve it. They have to approve it. They'll be notified. They'll be out there. They'll be looking at this earlier right now. Absolutely. That's
opposed to 55, you know, right? No, no, no. I I get that. But as far as the 55 and that's going to be one structure out on to Payic Avenue. No, it's going to be the 55
the plan with the setback that all the other houses are. It's basically he was putting in like a new street with 22 buildings that are duplexes and that was 44 units and then 11 units in one other building, larger building off on the
side. Okay. So he purchased another piece of land is what you're saying. No is the same original 138 P 138 Pony. Okay. Four of them I tore a couple of them are behind the property that's being developed with three homes. So the
road would basically curve behind it back shape. Okay. So if you look at it frontage to the left behind the current three existing homes that are being built behind there
that's 144. Now will that in any way affect Nokra schools addition? No no it's it's how like No, I'm just saying is it that close to Is it not?
It's not that close. No, he doesn't he's not the plan shows that he's not encroaching on the wetlands or the wetland buffer and then on the other side of the wetlands and wetland buffer is where no anacro would be. So he's hundreds of feet away from it. And again that property would have been all age restricted which would have zero impact on the school. I just want to keep
pointing that out because everyone seems to be overlooking that one which I get. I get it. Traffic study standpoint except for the traffic standpoint that'll have through too. The traffic study will have to be done. because the attorney yesterday
said that she never did a traffic study. They did one for the old development from 5 years ago, which she stated. Exactly. And that's why I asked the question last night when I said, "Have they done an
updated traffic impact study?" And our council, the the planning board council said, "We can't ask those questions right now." But I specifically asked that question last night because just so everybody understands, years ago when this originally was developed as an idea, there were 20,000 cars a day going
in front of my house. Now it's probably 10,000 because not everybody's going to their offices. Okay, that doesn't mean that when they go back to five days, which a lot of businesses are going, that you're not going to have that traffic back up
the city. Yeah. So whatever traffic study that they're using that was done in whatever 2017 is totally valid. So I could speak to that because I'm a licensed engineer and a licensed professional traffic operations engineer as well. Um you have you have trip generation studies. The Institute of
Transportation Engineers do updated manuals that give you factors for all that stuff. So any traffic study would have that in it. And they do updated numbers each year. You would have to do a study where you're doing traffic volumes, traffic counts. and they they add it based on the development, how much traffic is going to be generated
from that development based on the number of houses, the types of people, the ages of the people, all that is incorporated into it. And which is why I asked the question because I want to look at that just like our board engineers going to be looking at that. We're going to have two board engineers look on it. I do that for a living on a
daily basis. So I can't, but I can make the comments and then the county would be involved as well. So the traffic, the wetlands, the number of units that are going to be put on that property don't seem to fit. I don't I don't know how you do that on poor interest. Makes no sense to me.
Now, somebody saying I think you said, John, you're talking about seven buildable acres. That's not my understanding of that property. I I mean, I don't know off top of my head. I don't know. I don't have their final plan. I don't have He had that document. That shows what the wetland lays are, what the proposal
is, where the units are going to be located. Not in here. Mild is all I know, but it's in the other stimul like an earlier one. I was going to say that it's not in the it's not in the report, but we obviously saw layout of it, right?
So I don't know why it's not in the report, but it kind of John would know better than me. It kind of carves around all the wetlands does like the street like you said like an L so that the wetlands don't seem to be in play from again what council and the developer are telling us. I mean if the planning board
when it gets to zoning knows something different and you know that's something that they would know better than us I guess but council and the developer have presented it as it doesn't impact on the wetlands. I mean, they could get approved. We bring D. Well, DP's going to come in. They're coming in no matter
what. You can't go. Yeah. Listen, that would be great. If DP came in and said, "No, you can't do it." And we get time on it, then good for us. Ultimately, doesn't the state of New Jersey come in and say, "We've said that you've got to have 152."
And I don't care where you find it, we've got to find it someplace. That's the problem. I've heard them say I've heard the state say with other towns who have said we have no place to build you have ball fields nothing else we'll take your ball and
guess what parents found a place to build vacant property that the town owns that that's something I'm sure everybody wants agreed county county has plenty space that they
own in town that could be bought county to the place right now just correct me if I'm wrong the less of two evils because like you said it's either we build in a certain area with five plus or we build somewhere else and impact
the school and impact and I just want to say like I appreciate predicament that you're in and everyone's in because it's difficult and I know this is really hard but like for a parent of a young child to start thinking Like I would in a way
prefer to have 55 like that's the only option you have but 55 plus housing like I'm telling you no after even with the U of extension we are at our maximum we are it's that is I don't even know where
we what we would do like I I run I am the co-president of the special education parent administration group for our town that's like a state mandated group and there's we're masked 25% of our kids have special need. we
bring more kids in into this town. Like I, you know, I hear everything and I appreciate everything. Look like comparison being built. That's really affecting my family. But what's the lesser of two? Graduating class yesterday from nowhere
was 75. Yep. That's sixth grade. What have we got in kindergarten already? I think they have four kindergartens this year, right? First grade class has four. first grade. My my youngest is in the first grade class and there's four. There's four. Just like we had the graduating
class last year was four as well. How many? Yeah. 20-ish. 20ish or I didn't hear the question. I'm sorry. Five kids that were in each of the graduating sixth grade class. Our our
kindergarten that's now moved up to first grade had 15 kids in four classes each. We have we have 87 children with IEPs. We have 25 approximate children with 504 health plans. Uh 25% of our school has a
special need. Um each like he said moving up the first grade the numbers that's going to be another teacher and we did not get we did not get the money that you think we got for from the state. They all in town special. They
all live. Yeah. They don't take We don't Roseanne ships out. Rosanne doesn't receive usually. Rosenne ships out. They But they used to. Rosen used to receive. Really? It's We used to. Yes. I know that they don't do that anymore. No,
they they closed that. Yes, we did. We did. We were like one of the top school education. No, they had a program. Classroom, right? So, capacity that's one additional classroom for each grade
pretty much additional technically 10 will be a small classroom. Should have never closed this. But I'm just saying beyond that the numbers beyond that we take over. Oh, but this been trying what we've been trying.
These are all the things we discussed behind the scenes. This is it. This for six months worked with the the DOE that that created the department for the parents to run this program like but do you really want a
thousand senior drivers pulling out? [Music] I wouldn't if my kid was It's not a thousand. It's not a thousand. But still, it's it's back and forth all day in and out. They're retired. They're
they're moving. They're going to stores. They're going they're running errands. They're doing things. They're doing it during the day and it's right next to a school. I It's safety issue. Exactly.
Not a lot of activity. Yes. But is there a solution where you you know have someone the security at that light that comes in and out? I'm just trying like um trust me like there's there's not many places for the kids to go anymore.
Even with the extension question um the project at Harrison and the two on Becker Farm, how many total units between the three? 260 which you're talking about six and 85 building right now. I'll give you the
exact number. You're saying 230 something 534. No, it's a lot more than six farm is 299. 84 LI 85 Livingston is 21341 211 Harrison is 211
yeah about that yep our third our third round number was like 300 352 of that 850 what's the breakdown one two bedrooms what are we talking about uh majority one and two but there are some three in there affordables
usually threes for exposure. I have it but the threes are only the affordable unit. Those are the bigger issues. These are all words, right? Got to assume that those are going to have at least one possibly two children in them. Now listen, hold that. We get studies from people that present that we've had people come in that say on average this is what you're going to get and this is
what we predict and they like the equations and the algorithms these people have is beyond no offense to you or me. I mean I don't know what you do for a living but beyond our pay grade. So they'll tell you, you know, this percentage usually goes to private school, not going to impact the school. This percentage is going to do whatever. So they gave us what we think are pretty
solid numbers, which we have shared with the board of ed working with Mr. Leon, who's been awesome to work with to come up with a plan where the school will not be harmed. This next round is obviously opening up another can of worms and we thought that the 50 were given data from
an outside company who did a study study just out of curiosity. Yeah. And we did one. when we shared it with Leon. Yeah, we have it. Do you have it or I don't have it in front of me. Oh god, I remember these. It was the rough. We can We can provide you with them. We don't have them here.
But yeah, I don't want to say the number wasn't as bad as we thought it was going to be, but again, you don't know that, right? Like that's what they that's what they think, but who knows? Maybe someone moves into a three-bedroom house and has seven kids. I don't know.
A lot of bunk beds, you know. My boys share a room. I don't know. Just saying. Rob Julian Gateway, it's in the neighborhood. Um, I just had a question. I'm sitting here thinking about the
Firmwood property. Um, I read recently that that they're considering doing development there. Um, and I guess when I think about the Ronoff and the Fullerton Brook, that should really be factored in even though it's it's
disconnected from this whole for proposal. Um I would just like you council to take that forward in your consideration as well that um that also feeds right into that and um it's easy to just say well that's a separate thing
happen off in left field and block it out but I I think it needs to be considered as well. Understood. Thank you. Sure. Any other member of the public wish heard? Okay.
put the screen up. No, it's audio. Oh, yeah. These different areas that they're building. Where I live on Green Avenue, there is absolutely no way for anybody in our neighborhood to get to the center
of town without a car. When I first moved there, we used to walk to the center of town. Now we can't. Number one, you got to cross the state in two different places because we have no sidewalks on our side. And
number two, and more importantly, we have been told that during the day when school is in session, we are not allowed to walk up the path behind the school to get to the top of the railroad property
to get to the sidewalk to go to the center because it's a danger to have people we don't know out the back. How come I can't unmute myself? That was dangerous. You're talking about putting in more people in another area on that
side of the state who can go nowhere without a car. I'm just wondering I mean Mr. Mayor, how do you think you're going to get out of your driveway? I live on PG, so I'm I'm not I'm I feel everyone's pain here. I'm
not as close as as you are, Bri, but I'm on P also. So this adversely affects me as well. I I think she's raising a good point. I mean there's no egress like for the sake if you have I can't chat either and this is a safety problem for the ambulances
and fire. I've often thought you know for some reason it's being weird tonight. I don't know you can't get an ambulance or or a fire engine down and now you're going to add another you know group of cars. I think there's already a major problem. and he's I can't figure
out why I'm not unmuted. And I don't think so. This is him saying, "Do you want to speak?" My understanding was the town that you know that is something that could be developed for a road.
Excuse me. That railroad still goes and the steel factory. It stops. I think you're I'm sorry. As far as 280. Yep. I think you're talking about right right behind my house. I I hear it every We're talking about the side closest to Harry.
Correct. Well, I don't know how far how far you own, but certainly behind that. Yes. Yes. But theoretically, if there was a road, for example, put through directly from the first aid
squad right down the side of Noeer, you took out that mound of, you know, ashvault that everybody cops use, I guess, for cutthroughs that could be made into a throughway to to alleviate some of the traffic on the SE going
towards uh the credential building, but I've never heard anybody talk about And the same thing going over towards Harrison. That same that could be that could be a T that would connect Harrison,
Eagle Rock and uh theoretically you own the Fernwood property too. So that all could be so that you could have a pass through to alleviate the traffic on the stake like another Lincoln. Not a Lincoln, a road.
It would become about a resial area. I don't know what this [Music] I do. You can Ryan. Ryan. Yeah. Go ahead. Is that the person for public comment on
Zoom? Yes. I don't know. Whomever's on Zoom for public comment, please just give your name and address for the record. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Hi, it's Elizabeth Phillips, 29 Lincoln Street. I actually have two topics. I do want to follow on
the subject that's being has been discussed all evening. Um, just clarify because there's been a lot of things said that haven't matched between last night and tonight. So, in this final group, not group three, was originally
to be the uh age restricted. I believe it was supposed to be an assisted living at fourback. That was not in three. That's in four. And they backed out. That was no that's the 65 Livingston. I'm sorry it's very loud. 65 Livingston
was in three as the assisted living not for Becker. Okay. So is 65 Livingston go who who's the one that changed what they want to do? That was for Becker from Beer. For Becker. So 65 will be an
assisted living the plan. So that's already been preapproved. That was in the third round. That's what I thought. Okay. So, so there is age restricted in that sense that 65 is and assisted living is age restricted assist living
facility. It's different than age restricted. I mean it's okay but it's not going to generate children going to school. No. Okay. So that's where I got a little confused because I thought it was 65 and then I heard something about four. So then in group four for Becker
had orig had originally given you a proposal for age restricted it and with and has withdrawn that correct okay and they want just to be full market slash
with their percentage of afford. Correct. Okay. And following on Mr. Cristiano's comment that I hadn't thought about last night was an excellent suggestion
has the council because the council if I'm understanding the process comes up with their recommendation to the planning board. This is the plan we would like you to consider. You bless it goes to the state then everything else follows follows form.
His suggestion was why hasn't the town considered being the property owner? So, I don't know how many of you people are aware of 100 Hillwood Terrace in Verona. Anybody recognize that address? Well, what was
the address? 100 Hillwood Terrace in Verona. It's across from the Verona High School. Yeah. It is incomerestricted senior living. In other words, you have this all of the units, all of the entire
and it is the Verona senior. It's the town. This was set up in the I want to say the 60s or 70s where it is all either, you know, seniors. You also could be a disabled senior. You could be whatever. But
income, the entire building is income restricted and a hu a huge asset to the town and the community and the people that it serves. And that I thought was what where Mr. Cristiano was going. And I
went, what a what a concept. There's 11 units that you're trying to find a home for. I don't know which particular parts of the um Roseand has vacant or has the option to accommodate that. And I also
do not know do any of the group homes that service our disabled population meet for credit under this program? Yeah, they're in there. Yeah, we have one on what's is it green?
I thought I actually think there's one up on uh Laurel Green because right now currently up for sale are properties in the center of town. [Music]
Correct. Some of them were sold already. Correct. Okay. So, the I I don't have an answer to my question. Are any of the um disabled group homes, do they meet for the COA? Yes. Yes. For
prior rounds. What about this round? Or I'll rephrase that. If 11 was in the prior round, could that because Mr. Bcher raised that same comment. There are properties owned by the town where if you put, you know, if you drive
across Laurel, there's several of them. I used to do home care visits in them that you would never even know they existed and they service a huge need to disabled people. That's has that ever been considered by
the town instead of having to deal with the 11 and now an additional 44 to make 55 so the developer gets the profit. That's what Mr. Cristiano was addressing. And I and you know I'm giving you two examples
of other ways to meet 11 units. It's not that you have to find a place for 55. You have to find 11 space for 11 units. So that Mr. Bcher raises the issue if the town owns properties
that can have a home on it. Well, it's over Facebook. So, my question I haven't heard the answer either any of these options been been discussed because it appears the options are not able to be brought under
transparency to the public which I don't understand but I guess that's how it works. Um, there was I said earlier there was two uh proposals to for to build a uh I
don't want to use the word a um assisted homes for special needs, but they wanted the town to use our trust, which only has $150,000 in it, to purchase the property. Oh my god. I cannot think of the um I
can't think of the comp I cannot think of the company off the top of my head. And there the Ark. Are you thinking of the Ark? No, I'm not thinking of the Ark. I'm thinking of in Livingston. Oh my goodness. I'd have to email you. I can't think of the name of the police. Life Town. Nope.
House. And they're over on They're over on the back side in Livingston. I just can't think of the name of them. But there's that's what I'm asking. Have have we really explored that? Because I do believe Mr. Mr. Bashet is correct. There's
there appears to be properties in this town where there are, you know, that might be a more palatable solution to the to the need that we have to address. And I don't know how you would
in 7 days or whatever figure out the kind of situation that's in Verona, which I kind of wonder why no one did it for any of the previous developments or previous solutions to the COA because it's a phenomenal situation they have there. It's kind of a hidden gem that
most that those of us know about don't like to share. So that's my comment on that. And then I just have one quick question. as a resident on Lincoln Street. Has there been a decision on the speed tables? Have we gotten the data back from
broke his rib? Yes. We had our officer that installs the um the traffic uh um unit um the the counter uh he was injured um and he couldn't do it. So, as soon as the traffic study is performed for the after study to get the speeds on
Lincoln Street, um the decision will be made. Okay. And I've heard and again I've heard the comment a couple of times and it irritates me. Yes, we understand as as residents of the town that you you make the decisions. We elected you to
speak on our behalf and hopefully represent our um philosophies or whatever you want to call it. We're just asking to be engaged and that's where I find a lack of transparency. Mr. Schroeder addressed
it. It's been mentioned in many of the Lincoln Street comments. There there needs to be more than just the rumor mill then has to get on social media and spread the word that I can tell you in
other towns. They put out there we're we're looking for community input. We understand that we don't make the decision, but invite us to the table and ask us our concerns. I don't think that's an unreasonable
request. Understood. Can that happen going forward with Lincoln Street and with this? In other words, h are we how do we find out when next you come forth with your recommendation to the planning board? How are we going to find out? Nixel, you
know, the Roseland uh newsletter once a week. In other words, you can go to the schedule planning board meeting. Like everybody else, I I don't That wasn't my question. My question was, how do we know that you have come to your conclusion as to what your
recommendation is to them? It'll be at the next planning board meeting because they're only going to meet because they're giving them a plan. I don't mean to be flippant. I don't mean to be flippant, but finding meetings and agendas is a challenge on this website. Just putting it out there. I called the
town to find this one. It'll be noticed in the newsletter. It'll be on the website. I I mean, all public meetings are uh publicized 48 hours notice. We follow all the rules and regulations accorded with public meeting.
Again, I don't feel like that's encouraging or asking us to to be overly involved and that's I think what most of the residents that are present at the meeting are trying to convey to you
published in a a newspaper as well by you know law in New Jersey. So um all the all publications are you know what they're most progress the progresses I'd love to hear suggestions of how to get it out more if you have any of those.
Yeah, that's well in the Rosland newsletter it ne you never see anything saying we have an open meeting to hear public comments on on on an option that we're we're considering. Every time
there's a somebody with strain mosquitoes I get a phone call. All right. There's a problem with uh the next you're talking about. He's got it from what's his name? David Senzo. There's just someone talking in the crowd, ma'am. That's all. If if if there's a way for them to do it, then we
all get it. There's obviously a process in place. They probably do a phone blast. Can't we leverage that, right? We've had them before in emergencies. Again, that's only as good as the number of people that actually sign up for those different things. So, like when
you have those when you have those Nixl alerts that go out, not everybody signs up for those, just like other people don't go to websites and stuff. So, we can't we can't Don't got your number two. I got two polls.
What I'm saying is I didn't get any. It's available. Right. All right. I hear you. Must be on there. I think you have a point. I'll be honest with you. I'm looking at these newsletters and buried, you know, 17 pages in is a discussion about this. That's not right here.
That's not right. You got to go find I got to go hunt pet. So, I hear you. My point was was that we were not notified and I'm directly across the street from this, right? Mhm. I don't know what So you you would be notified when it goes before the planning board because if you're within 200 feet, you would
definitely be notified then. I'm just saying that's that's when you're notified. Yeah, you have on you're saying seven years of lawsuits. I'm not being notified. Yeah. I'm an adjacent property to it. I don't understand it. Makes no sense. Notified. next door the last she's
immediate she's immediately next door to the guy I was not even when you look on that preliminary my address not even on there you know 200 ft I can't see how the legal you know responsibility is being accomplished by especially when there's going to be a
zoning change makes no sense I put in a generator behind me maybe Even just seems to be Did you know you can speak at council meetings? Did you know you
can like not everybody knows that terms just progress still? Did you know a lot of people a lot of people don't you guys public notice on the progress? I'd say less than 1% of people we're required to
I think was it two or three publications? Um, there's no more Star Ledger. Yeah, Star Ledger. Listen, it's an interesting question. Maybe not for this conversation now, but at what point is it our job to make everybody responsible citizens? And at what point is it everyone's job to be responsible citizens? You're here. You found out,
right? I we see that at the board of ed meetings, too. I go to I go to the board of ed. There's like two people half the time. You should go. You should have a community blog. How about that? Yeah. I'm I'm like the Facebook thing you're saying? Yeah. No, that's not a community blog. a certain group of people who have
a blog going. That's not that's not that doesn't represent the whole community. I think you know that Yeah, that's I'll get accused of that next. It's fine. It always say so what safe way do we have to get it out to everybody? I
come once a week. Every Friday. Yes. Put it in there. It is in there. It is in there. It is in there. You know, you got your T- wall sign on back with your planning. I get it. The agendas are in there. It makes no sense.
Well, maybe we could change the order of what comes out each week. Anything pertaining to the burrow and the people should be in the beginning and then other town activities after. Good point. Mhm. Because then you get people like I
posted something on Facebook and somebody wrote, "Oh no, it's not." She doesn't know what she's talking about. It's not tonight. So people didn't come. I don't trust any of my news on social media. Just saying. Sometimes more than one.
Yes. Can I make a suggestion? Why don't the meeting end? You guys go home, get rested, and get ready for tomorrow. There's a lot of work to do. Well, we just didn't want you guys stop. I'm willing to We didn't want to We didn't want to shorten anyone who wanted to be
com. So, to say it only helps us to make a better decision. Would be disrespectful. No, it just we can hear we we hear what you have to say. It helps us. You're the voice. We're here for you. So, it helps us make the the right decision for
everyone listening to everybody. So, I'm appreciative of it. There's a phone call. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, I'm just Hello. Yes, sir. Oh, you can hear me? Yes. Oh, how you doing? Um, Michael Lri,
24 Lincoln Street. So, I was listening. I actually wasn't going to say anything. I know it's late. Everybody wants to go home. I just want to thank you very much for paving our street. came out beautiful. I hate to ruin it with any speed bumps. Uh as as as you know, um I
got a couple questions real quick. Um the counter that's on the end of the street, you said is for speed. Is it also for volume? And um and real quick, is it for volume of cars also? because uh I thought we were going to try to get
a quot on on how many cars come down the street because there is a law of putting speed tables on a certain amount of cars going down the street, especially Lincoln. And let me just say real quick, the residents that are sitting there, I feel for you, but you should drive down
Lincoln Street when you have 18 wheelers coming down. Now, speed bumps are not going to stop those cars. They're not going to slow them down. We're going to need railroad uh crossings because we're going to have a line of cars coming down and they're going to be slow anyway
because the volume of cars are going to be coming down is going to be enormous. So, uh I'm really I I on one hand I'm afraid, God forbid, somebody gets hurt and I'm fighting these speed tables, but on the other hand, you put these speed tables in and people try to pass each
other and somebody gets hurt, there's gonna be a problem also. And I we had these speed tables before and people tried to pass on them and people got like crazy on this street yelling at each other and it was just a wreck. So going back to my first question, is
there going to be a counter on the volume of cars going down Lincoln Street? Thank you. That's one question. Yeah. Yes. So, we we did a traffic traffic count um and speed study um for the middle of the street um right at the
crest of the hill on Lincoln Street before paving and we were going to do one right afterward, but again like the officer hurt himself. So, as soon as he recovers, he'll be doing a study as well um for one week. We're going to compare the data from before and after. You can't do one week. You just can't do one week. That's a standard traffic study.
It's one week. Well, you can't do it during the summer. You can't do it during the summer. You got to do it when it's busy. I mean, you just can't I mean, you can't. So, again, when it comes to traffic studies like that, um there's bunch of manuals, chip generation manuals from the Institute of Transportation Engineers and various
other organizations, um that give um you know, um factors based on the type of roadway classification and the time of year. Um, so they do an average based on, you know, the, you know, area of the country that you're in and then it boils down to the state that you're in and
then the region of the state and it goes to roadway classification versus like a conventional highway versus a rural road and it gives you factors based off of time of year and everything. So a traffic engineer, so we're going to give those volumes to our burough engineer. He'll go out there and he'll do a study
comparing them and it's going to compare apples to apples based off of before and after the roadway was paved and you know the factor that was done. We tried to do it as close to when they started paving. Um and we I wanted to get it the other study to be done literally the week after but unfortunately the officer hurt
himself. Um so as soon as he recovers we're going to do the the second study and then uh the comparison will be done. I hear you, but I and I respect you, but I don't think they're going to be accurate compared to during during the school years or and and and we should
wait until all these units are put up, you know, until the traffic starts, you know, those additional units is going to create. We could always we could always do an additional study after the fact as well. Um the fact that you know the burough went and purchased this unit for $5,000 um per my recommendation back a
couple months ago is so that we could do these studies when a resident reaches out and he expresses a concern because it's no cost to us, you know. Um whereas in the past we would have to hire an engineering company to go out there and do a traffic study for us and every time that to do a study it's going to cost, you know, 10 or $15,000. We have this
available and we have this, you know, this tool at our fingertips to utilize all the time. So, anytime any resident has any type of issues with speeding or volumes, you know, by all means, reach out to the the burough council, reach out to myself, you can send me an email, and we can get a counter put out there
in days as long as it's not being utilized at another location. Once one study's done, we can just keep rotating it and moving it to another location. Right. Well, I don't think we have a speeding problem. We have a volume problem. And and I love all these signs you put on Lincoln. Um, and we took one
for the street. We have a big sign in front of our house. Uh but again, I don't think that's going to be the problem. And I think I think you even said uh that it wasn't going to deter trucks from coming down our street, these speed tables. So what are they
going to do? Speeding for like a percent. It's not even a percent of cars that come down that speed. We just have volumes of cars. It's just lines of cars coming down. But um that's one thing. So um let me see
what else I wanted to say. There's the town and the traffic that goes down there. Are you aware of the fact that the GPS sends the trucks down Lincoln Street? Are you talking to me or you talking to Are you talking to us or you talking to
him? We updated it. That's been a problem. So we've so any trucker in the in the country is supposed to use a truck navigational system. Fortunately, they don't. They just use their cell phones and it doesn't have the rules that are associated with that, you know, so it's not built into it. We could put
a sign up there and, you know, Google Maps and Ways and all that should update, but they should be utilizing the trucking GPS units and that's on the companies to do that. It's on it's on our police force to enforce it and write the tickets. And unfortunately, but the
mayor and the burrow contacted Google and Google Maps, Yahoo, all the all the map companies and had it removed I think about three years ago. Five years ago. Yeah. I do want to say, like I said, all those uh signs are are
are nice and I have a big giant sign in front of my house, which is fine. Uh I feel like we need and I've said this before and I don't know why we're we didn't do it this time. We need a picture sign of a truck with a line through it on Harrison and on Eagle Rock
with an arrow pointing to Lincoln saying four tons underneath that because they're not seeing those signs that have the letters on it. The trucks are turning and they're not seeing it. So if we had those big signs, I'm not saying they're going to pay attention. That's a
good suggestion because they're not going to suggest I'll talk to if we can I'll talk to John and see if I can get take those letter signs out and put something else in there. You know that at least pictures and hopefully you know you know I don't know if that will help.
We need to do something because all this negative talk about our street is just putting out in the universe and I don't like it. I just don't believe tables are going to be the answer because we had them before. I have neighbors on our street that agree with me. Um, you know,
they're not as boisterous as I am or as Elizabeth is or jury, but there's people out there that don't want them because they had them before. And yes, these might be a little less quieter, I think. I don't know because when you have 18
wheels going around it or vans with tools in the back, it's not going to be quieter. But, you know, I I like you guys. You're doing a great job. but hear us. Uh because especially with the volume of cars coming down, it's going to be a problem. Have a nice night.
Thank you, Mr. Good night. Any other member of the public wish to be heard? Do we have a motion to close executive? So moved. Second. Sorry. Exact. Sorry. Getting ahead of myself. Sorry. We have a motion to close
public comment. So move. Second. Phil Potti. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. Next on the agenda is presentations. We have none. First on introduction of ordinances, Ordinance 21-2025. Mr. Watkins, please
read the ordinance by title only. bond ordinance providing for improvements to Courtland Street and 4th Avenue in and by the burough of Rosland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating $427,000, therefore, and authorizing the issuance of $114,576
bonds or notes of the bureau to finance part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to introduce ordinance 21-2025? So moved. Second. By Trillo. All in favor? I I opposed
hearing and seeing none. Ordinance number 21-20225 will be posted on the bureau's website. Notice of public hearing will be published in the progress. Public hearing will be held on Tuesday, July 15th, 2025. Do we want to take a second for the room
to clear out and we have Yeah. Yeah. Can we uh can we take a motion to take a break? Yeah. Just motion bon second to all in favor. I I opposed hearing none. We'll be back in a few minutes.
All right. Do we have a motion to go back to open session? So move. Second tolly. All in favor? I post. Hearing none. We're back in open session. I don't have to read the No. Okay. Next on the agenda is introduction of ordinance 22-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the
ordinance by title only. A bond ordinance providing for the acquisition of vehicles and equipment in and by the burrow of Rosland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating $245,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of $232,750
bonds or notes of the bureau to finance part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to introduce ordinance 22-2025? Some second parate trillo. All in favor? I opposed hearing and seeing none.
Ordinance number 22-2025 will be posted on the burough's website. Noticeable of public hearing will be published in the progress. Public hearing will be held on Tuesday, July 15, 2025. Next on the agenda, bless you if that was his sneeze. Next on the agenda is
ordinance 23-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. Bond ordinance providing for various capital improvements in and by the burrow of Rosland, the county of Essex, New Jersey. approp appropriating $257,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance
of $244,150 bonds or notes of the burrow finance part of the cost there. Is there a motion to introduce ordinance 23-2025? Some moved. Second brought. All in favor? I opposed
hearing and seeing none. Ordinance number 23-2025 will be posted on the bureau's website. Notice of public be published in the progress. Public hearing will be held on Tuesday, July 15, 2025. Thank you. Uh, ordinance 15-2025
was noticed mistakenly and identified by an incorrect number. Therefore, the notice of the public hearing on ordinance 15-2025 will be readvertised and the hearing will be rescheduled to the July 15th, 2025 meeting. Next on the agenda is a public hearing
on ordinance 16-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending chapter 3 of the revised general ordinances of the burrow of rose lane entitled police regulations section 3-2 entitled noise. There a motion to open the public hearing on
ordinance 16-2025. So moved secondy all in favor I opposed hearing and seeing none. Does anyone wish to be heard on ordinance 16-2025? If there are none may we have a motion to close the public hearing. So moved.
Second. Rody Bardy. All in favor? I I opposed. Hearing Hearing Hearing Hearing Hearing Hearing Hearing He and seeing none, Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending chapter 3 of the revised general ordinances of the Burough Rosland entitled police regulations section 3-2 entitled noise. It's a
motion to adopt ordinance 16-2025. So move second. Rody Barty. Roll call vote, please. Mr. Watkins. Mr. Bardy. Yes. Mr. Bar. Yes. Mrs. Broady. Yes. Mr. Schroeder. Yes. Mrs. Tolley. Yes. Mr. Trillo. Yes. Ordinance
number 16-2025 will be advertising that progress is a past ordinance shall take effect as provided by law. Thank you, Mr. Watkins. Next, there's an or a public hearing on ordinance 17-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending
section 14-4 of the revised general ordinances of the Burough Growland entitled use of outdoor facilities to establish weekend hours and fees for the use of the pavilion and picnic area at Ourn Field. Is there a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 17-2024?
So moved. Second tool. All in favor? I opposed hearing and seeing none. Does anyone should be heard on ordinance 17-2025? Hearing and seeing none. May we have a motion to close the public hearing? So moved.
Second. Toli Trillo. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing and seeing none, Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending section 14-4 of the revised general ordinances of the Burough Rosland entitled use of outdoor facilities to establish weekend hours and fees for the
use of a pavilion and picnic area at Ourn Field. Is there a motion to adopt ordinance 17-2025? So moved. Second. Totally brought. Roll call vote, please. Mr. Lock. Mr. Barty. Yes. Mr. Bryant. Yes. Mrs.
Yes. Mr. Schroeder. Yes. Mrs. Tolley. Yes. Mr. Trillo. Yes. Ordinance 17-2025 will be advertised in the progress as a past ordinance. Shall take effect as provided by law. Thank you, Mr. Watkins. Next, we have a public hearing on ordinance 18-2025.
Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending chapter 7 of the revised general ordinances of the Burough Roseand entitled traffic to amend section 7-40.3 entitled regulations for the movement and the parking of tra and the parking
of traffic on all other private property. Is there a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 18-2025? So moved. Second party. All in favor? I I opposed hearing and seeing none. Does anyone wish to be heard on ordinance 18-2025?
Hearing and seeing none, we have a motion to close. May we have a motion to close the public hearing. So move second. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing and seeing none, Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. An ordinance amending chapter 7 of the
revised general ordinances of the burrow roseand entitled traffic to amend section 7-40.3 entitled regulation for the movement and the parking of traffic on all other private property. Is there a motion to adopt ordinance 18-2025?
So moved. I think it was totally bar. Roll call vote please. Mr. Watkins. What was that? Uh toy baront. Thank you. Mr. Barty. Yes. Mr. Bont. Yes, Mr. Spotty. Yes, Mr. Schroeder. Yes, Mrs. Tolley. Yes, Mr. Trillo. Yes.
Ordinance number 18-2025 will be advertised in the progress as a past ordinance. Shall take effect as provided by law. Thank you, Mr. Watkins. Next is a public hearing on ordinance 19-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. bond ordinance providing
for various capital improvements in and by the burough of Rosland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating 197,240 therefore and authorizing the issuance of $187,378 bonds or notes of the burrow to finance
part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 19-20220? So move second. Marty Bar. All in favor? I opposed hearing and seeing none. Does anyone wish to be heard on ordinance 19-2025
hearing and seeing none have a motion to close the public hearing? So moved second toy all in favor I opposed hearing and seeing none. Sir Watkins please read the ordinance by title law.
Andor is providing for various capital improvements in and by the bureau of Roseland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating 197,240 therefore and authorizing the issuance of $187,378 bonds or notes of the burrow to finance
part of the cost thereof. It's a motion to adopt ordinance 19-2025. So moved. Second for a roll call vote, please. Mr. Watkins. Mr. Bardy. Yes. Yes. Mr. Bar. Yes. Mrs. Barott. Yes. Mr. Schroeder.
Yes. Mrs. Tolley. Yes. Mr. Trillo. Yes. This number 19-2025 will be advertised in the progress as a past ordinance shall take effect 20 days after the first publication after final adoption as provided by law. Thank you,
Mr. Watkins. Next, we have ordinance 20-2025. Mr. Watkins, please read the ordinance by title only. bond ordinance providing for the acquisition of an ambulance in and by the burrow of Rosland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating $48,000 therefore
and authorizing the issuance of $387,600 bonds or notes of the bureau to finance part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to open the public hearing on ordinance 20-2025? So moved. Second Barty. All in favor? I opposed hearing
and seeing none. Does anyone wish to be heard on ordinance 20-2025? Hearing and seeing none, we have a motion to close the public hearing. So moved. Second. Karate Trillo. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing and seeing none. Mr. Watkins,
please read the ordinance by title only. Bond ordinance providing for the acquisition of an ambulance in and by the burough of Rosland in the county of Essex, New Jersey, appropriating $48,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of $387,600
bonds or notes of the bureau to finance part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to adopt ordinance 20-2025? So moved. Second. Bar roll call vote, please. Mr. Watkins. Mr. Barty. Yes. Mr. Bront. Yes. Mrs.
Baratt. Yes. Mr. Schroeder, yes. Mrs. Tolley, yes. Mr. Trillo, yes. Ordinance number 20-2025 will be advertised in the progress as a past ordinance. Shall take effect 20 days after the first publication after
final adoption as provided by law. Thank you, Mr. Watkins. Next on the agenda, we have resolution 227-2025, approving the June 11th bill list. Everyone receive the bill list for question, concerns, andor recusals. If there are none, take a motion to
approve the bill list. So moved. Second. Parate. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing and seeing none. Next on the agenda, we have resolutions 1 through 15 by agenda number by
resolution number 228-2025 through 242-2025. I'd like to move these in their entirety. If there are no if there are any questions or concerns or recusals on the resolutions, if there are none, excuse me, I I have a quick question on
res number 12, resolution 239. The the woman that we're doing for HR, is she HR and payroll or just HR? Okay, both. Okay, that's it. Anything further? If not, we'll take a motion to approve,
please. So moved. Second party brought all in favor. I I think I might have to recuse myself on 15. Good point. No. No. No. No. Okay. Okay.
Great. So, let's take a motion again. Excuse me. Motion to approve the resolutions. Hold on while we do this. Go ahead. Wait. I'm going to abstain from number 13 to submit the grant for Park Street because Okay, so let's Okay, I got it. Sorry. No, no, it's fine. Move
resolutions 1 through 12 by agenda item 228-2025 through 239-2025. We have a motion to approve those 12. Second. Uhoh. All in favor? I opposed hearing and
seeing none. We'll move resolution 240-2025 with Councilwoman Parate recusing herself. Do we have a motion for that resolution? So moved. Second. By Parat. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. Next, we'll move
resolution 241-2025 and 242-2025 14 and 15 on the agenda. Do we have a motion? Second. So moved. Second toy toy. All in favor? I opposed.
Hearing none. Next we have the consent agenda to wave the field permit fees for youth baseball walkout game which ended I think about an hour and a half ago. Do we have a motion to wave these fees? No. Double them. Schroeder. Do we have a
second? Second. Trillo. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. Um where mayor's report? I just want to thank everyone for making the picnic wonderful. Thank police, fire, OEM, etc. And I'll keep the rest brief. I have nothing else.
Committee reports, finance, administration, council bar. Thank you, mayor. Nothing to report tonight. Recreation Council Trillo. Uh, also nothing to report besides the six the seventh and eighth grade girls won the softball championship undefeated season. I hope that's to your liking. May I
respect? I was looking where the bar trophy at noer yesterday when I was at sixth grade graduation and we need another seventh I know that's where the bar was set. So they undefeated and I had coach Williams with me as well who I know is your buddy. So uh we got that done. So congratulations. Thank you. That's all I Councilman Schroeder.
Nothing early Mr. Mayor. Thank you Councilman. Uh Council Bar uh just two uh quick announcements. Um Godfrey Gates Mitchell Plymouth and Lions. We're having our bid opening for the repaving of those streets on June 24th and the
water tank on uh Ridge Road. Um uh the bid opening for that is July 2nd. That's all I have. Thank you. Public safety council. I'm I'm nothing at this moment. Thank you, Councilman Tully. Well, I guess I'm the only one. Everybody stay.
Just one quick thing. under the uh historical society and the historical preservation this Saturday. Um from let's see from 11:00 a.m. to 400 pm over at the Becker Barn there's going to be a little presentation about the history of
the Becker farm. There'll be refreshments and um lots of information about about the history and other than that um nothing else. Thank you, Council. Anyone have anything else to add the committee reports?
There are none. Next. Next, we have the approval of minutes from our May 20th, June 3rd, and June 11th meetings. Everyone received the minutes for questions, concerns, or recusals. If there are none, we'll take a motion. Yeah. They weren't here.
You normally list it when you're not. I think you were here for all of them. I missed at least the special counsel. Councilman Trillo was not at June 11th. No. June 3rd. Everybody was here on 11, right? All right. So then let's do this. We'll move
the May 20th council and executive session minutes and the June 11th special counsel meeting and executive session minutes. No one needs to recuse themselves. Do we have a motion to approve those? So moved. Second. Trillo Baron. All in favor? I opposed hearing.
Seeing none. Next we'll move to June 3rd caucus and executive session meeting minutes uh with Councilman Trillo recusing himself. Do we have a motion? Motion. Second. Vardy. All in favor? I opposed hearing. Seeing none.
Next we have our second round of public comment. Any member of the public wish to be heard. Come forward, state your name and address for the record. If you're with us via Zoom, use the raise your hand icon. And if you're with us telephonically, press star 9. Could be long. Imagine if it wasn't you. You know what I'm going to say? Yeah. Um, John Matias,
15 Belair Drive. We had a tree bar on our house a couple weeks ago and I just want to acknowledge and thank the fire department publicly for the excellent response and all the help they gave me and also officer Ally for the excellent report he did to help us get through our insurance uh, process. So, we're glad
nobody was hurt. Yeah, that's it. Diamond, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. Good luck. Oh yeah. If no other member of the public wish to be heard, take a motion to close public comment.
Motion to close public comment. Second. Marty Schroeder. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing none. The governing body has to close to executive session. The public should know that the governing body will take no action after executive session. We will simply come out of executive session and have a motion for adjournment. Do we have a
motion to close to executive session? So moved. Second. Uh Paratti Barat. All in favor? I oppose. Hearing none. Um the governing body has returned from executive session. The governing body will take no formal action. The governing body will just take a motion for a German. Do we have a motion for
Jeff? So moved. Second. Trillo Bar. All in favor? I opposed. Hearing and seeing none. Thank you everyone. The hours.