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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=C9EmbVmFmfs

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the brief moment of silence or prayer and the pledge of allegiance to the United States flag. No one is required to participate or be present for any of these and being in this portion of the meeting is completely voluntary. Today's prayer and pledge will be led by

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Miss Tammy Sharp. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um everybody will bow your heads. Dear Lord, we thank you for today. We thank you for the heat even though it's exhausting. Protect our maintenance men that are working out in it because they're up on the roof and they're doing things and it's really

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really hot. Protect our teachers that are taking a break and protect those that are here working for the summer school. Lord, we thank you for each and every one of them and we ask that you give them an extra breath of fresh air, extra strength to carry on through until

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August. It's going to be here before you know it. We thank you for the rain because we need the rain. And we thank you for your son, Jesus. In these things I pray. Amen. Amen. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Give everyone a moment to look over the agenda. Is there any additions or

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any of these? And then we can look over the consent agenda. Any questions there? Okay, since there doesn't appear to be any questions, moving on to there are no public

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comments and uh the RCS difference. We'll be doing that tonight. >> Be Monday. >> Okay, Monday. Okay. And then legal. So first we have policy adoption. So second reading of two readings. We did the first one back at our June 4th

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meeting. First policy change is 4.602 gradepoint average adds SAT scores criteria for validictorian saludiatoran. And then the second policy is 4.20002 annual instructional observance of independence day and that adds policy to require annual instructional observance

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of the 4th of July holiday within the academic school year. >> Okay. Number two. >> Number two is 2627 approved student fees and per policy 6.709 prior to the beginning of each school year.

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The board upon the recommendation of the principles and the director of schools shall approve all student fees um for the recommendation of the upcoming school year and additional fees may be approved during the school year as on an as needed basis. >> Okay.

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>> Next we move on to engineering and construction. Engineering construction RFP 2602 is under the consent agenda for approval. As a companion motion, we've added the following under engineering construction. McFaden property demolition contingency request. RFP2602

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is under the consent agenda for approval from purchasing engineering construction is also requesting an additional $20,000 for contingency for contingency to cover any unforeseen items. >> And when do we think we can start the demolition?

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Yeah, I'm waiting on >> Oh, sorry. >> No, I was going to ask the when and do you foresee anything and why 20,000 >> in the RFP? We have made it the

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contractor's responsibility for any lead or asbestous that could be associated with the dwellings. It is included in their bid. However, all five of these properties have recently, and I say recent in the last 15 years, have been

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tied into the city's water and sewer system. I'm going to go to the bank. There's a septic tank in every one of those yards. Tde has no record of where they are. We're going to encounter those or we're going to need to back fill them. thing

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that that's the kind of thing I don't I do not doubt that somewhere they're going to tell us a water line is here and we're gonna find a water line somewhere else and we're going to need to make some repairs. Those type items would not be included. Typically, we

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would think 10 to 15%. This is 20% of the bid of the low bid and that's where I came up with the number. If we don't spend it, it stays with us. >> Great. >> Thank you. Any other questions or comments regarding?

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>> Okay, let's move on to number two and Seagull High football. >> All right, Seagull High football video board request. Principal Steven Wayne's requesting to be approved to replace the existing school. The existing football scoreboard with a video board similar to other high school requests. The estimated cost for this request is

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360,000 will be funded by Wilson Bank and Trust and a loan to the booster club is at no cost to the board. All city permits and power connections to MTE are the project's responsibility. Engineering Construction have reviewed the request and have no objection. >> Any questions?

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>> Yes. >> Nope. Goes to them. >> Booers. >> Goes to whoever signed off as the booster president. >> It's amazing people sign off to do that. That's all I can say. But they usually have to have like tears on the line. >> Oh, I thought you said you're on it. I

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said, "Well, thank you." >> It is awful nice of them because I wouldn't do it. >> Well, most but most of the booster clubs will go and get guaranteers. So, people that that are in the community that they know will help them. So, >> yes, a lot more. Yeah.

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>> Okay. Next, number three, >> uh Christian Middle Turf mound request. So, Dr. or Kyle Nixon, I think it's uh Central Baseball have requested to install turf on the baseball field pitchers mound. If Central's doing it, that's really nice of them to pay for it. So that's Christian have requested to install turf on the baseball field

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pitchers mound. The cost for the turf installations $12,627.95 and is at no cost to the board. All funds have been raised by the baseball team and are in their account. Engineering Construction has reviewed the request and has no objection. Is that Central or is that going to be Cristiana? Do you know which one?

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>> Christian. >> Okay. So, we'll fix that to add Christristiana. Sorry, >> yes. >> They do now for to avoid the um extra upkeep that requires and so they don't have to have as many rain outs. So, a

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lot of places will do the dugout or the home plate area and then the pitchers mound area. >> Yep. >> Okay. Any other questions? Not where I would start either, but a lot of places do. >> Okay. Next nine, financial matters.

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>> This is fund 141, GPS amendment. That year end cleanup amendment budgets $8,279,427 for items such as leave payouts increases for degree and certification pay scale changes, stipens, insurance premium increases, adjustments for amended innovative school model program, additional costs for contracted

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services, middle school teacher laptop replacements and capital outlays for constructions. Also the increased pension rates for certified personnel moving to the hybrid retirement plan with TCRS. Next, it budgets additional expenditures for maintenance, custodial supplies, and student support contracted

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services. Finally, it funds the purchase of textbooks for the statemandated science textbook adoption. Funding for these expenses comes from additional TISA and state revenue as well as indirect costs from cafeteria program. This revenue and transfers are collected above budgeted amounts and allow

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movement between additional and current budget expenditures in multiple accounts and within object codes. This budget amendment cleans up expenditure lines at year end. And again, this is normal what we do. Um, I know 8 million is a lot. If you look at the county, it is a lot less than what the county does for a lot less

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of a budget. And so, we are getting ahead on a couple things. One, we're purchasing some textbooks. Two, we're able to use some funds that we have generated this year to go ahead and do um laptop replacement for our middle school teachers. So, we had that in next year's budget that we're going ahead and

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taking care of this year. So, we're getting some of next year's stuff going ahead and accomplishing this year. And so that's something we've been able to do. Something wrong, Brian? You're looking lost. >> Okay. So >> very well. So just know that we're able

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to get ahead on a lot of these things, which is definitely helpful um for us to be able to do, but it also does move, which is an end of the year cleanup. We do a middle of the year cleanup as well. >> Okay. Yes, Mr. Darby. >> Dr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> I think the the recommended motion >> Oh, his number. I see that. That's what

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it is. >> That's what I was seeing. Uh, it's actually supposed to be that 8.2 million at the top. So, that number needs to be changed. So, >> now I see what you're looking at. Okay. >> 279. >> 8279427.

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>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And then we have our last one, the fund 143 budget amendment. This fund 143 centralized cafeteria year end cleanup amendment budgets funds for expenditures such as employee payouts food supplies and materials and the transportation of those items. This amendment moves money

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between multiple line items without increasing or decreasing revenues and expenditures. This allows several line items to have money amended into them so they will not be overbudgeted at year end. >> Okay, questions. That leaves that year's budget just so everyone has it um at

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33,431092. >> Miss Maxwell. >> Yes. >> So, do we still put in fund balance into that? Yes. >> Add to it. >> What was the amount? 30. >> Well, we may end up based on how it ends. It may dip into it this year. We're just going to have to wait to see how everything finalizes. >> Finalizes.

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>> Yeah. Okay. >> What was that amount again? >> Um 33. Sorry. 33503092. So 3350392. >> Thank you. >> Expenditures and um revenue.

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>> Okay. >> Next. >> All right. Next we have our certified pay scale for fiscal year 2627. And just uh as a reminder how we got here in becoming director of schools in 2022,

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we had dozens of staff members not on any salary scale. And so there was a not really a rhyme or reason. We just had dozens of people not on a salary scale. So we did a huge study. Um the only things that are different on this certified salary scale, we've talked

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about we combined virtual school and hollow. And so that index moved to 1.35 um to basically doing two schools instead of one. Then we as we talked about at last meeting, the stipen for

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being a nationally um certified nurse is at $2,500. And so we talked about that as an option. I think um Dr. Broom mentioned that we didn't have any supplement for that. So we've added that at her request. And so that's an addition.

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And then we have the 2% cola to every other part of the table, which gets us to that 50,55610. So we're above the $50,000 threshold for our beginning teacher with a bachelors. >> Great. Any other questions?

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>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Our um >> Yes. Our nurses follow that scale exactly. I would love to. We are so large. Any half a if we did even.1 of a percent, it's over $400,000 for us. I would love to. That's how we got back to 2%. If you

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remember, we got down to 1.7. We got an additional 1.2 two and moved it back to get to 2%. Would love to >> agree. Any other questions regarding the pay scale?

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>> Okay. Next. >> Next we have the same with the classified pay scale. Um you do have a couple movements on here. We have some between our transportation department. A couple of these have to be moved around. We moved one up too high. So I'll I'll go

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over what those are on Monday. And so the way this works is our departments have budget meetings with central office or and with our myself and Brian Gon every department head meets with us. And so then we go through and justify kind of where we feel like each position is

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um our policy 5.110 director school she'll establish the salary rating of each person employed and recommend to the board. And so a lot of these are are minor changes um but nothing that is real major. One that I do want to call out and I think it's something we need to look at in the future or this year, but I would leave

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it up to the board. We left different openings in 119 and 120. There's definitely needs to be a separation at some point between the top three of 119 between our general counsel, our communications director, and our safety

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director. Those three compared to the bottom three are a huge difference in separation. I don't think we can go backwards on 117 to the bottom three. You have your HR director, technology director, that finance director is not

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Brian. Uh that's his second in charge. So, it's just a weird title. He's chief financial officer. And then our benefits director. Three of those are on call all the time. The other four are not on call all the time. And when we put this in place, I guess four years ago, we put all of

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those together as director tier three. I don't again it's up to the board what they want to do but there there needs to be a separation at some point this year next year some point about those positions as we've separated other ones those report to me so it's weird for me

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to bring up but just as everyone else advocates for their positions I have to advocate for my people at some point as well >> it's our safety director um general counsel and communications

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And I don't think it needs to move much. I just think there needs to be a break from one to the next between the three. I love those next four people. They're not the ones that are at our board meetings. They're not the ones that are doing roads with me. They're not the ones if we have a a gun issue Saturday

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night at 11:30 at night that has to send out a phone message. There's just a difference between them. very similar to how we broke apart project managers in in our engineering department. We did we moved warehouse manager last year. Is

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that correct? We you remember what we moved it from? We moved warehouse supervisor up a level um because there was a separation what a warehouse manager was and what the rest of the warehouse staff were doing. So just just some examples that we have. Again,

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that's not something that we have to do. Just something that I need to bring up this year, next year sometime. I think we need to look at it. >> Any questions? Yeah, Mr. Darby. >> I'm so sorry, but I even have my glasses

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on and I'm struggling to read this. Is it possible to >> and I don't know if it would help to split them into two so you can make these wider? >> Yeah, we can do that. >> Could we do something that would help? >> Yeah, break it down. Yeah. I'm I'm really struggling over here. I'm sorry. And just so everybody remembers,

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>> I can't see it either. So, okay. >> Yeah. Just so everybody remembers how we broke this apart. Every step on our classified is a 1.6% increase and every movement is a 5% across on the that way everything is completely equal all the

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way across. So, every year step is 1.6, every classification changes 5%. So, that we have it equal across the board so that no one can ever ask. And that came from I know we had difficult conversations four years ago, but we needed this because again in 2022 in

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June I had people on a handwritten piece of paper that I had salaries and Dr. Anthony can attest to it. We had people on handwritten pieces of paper that I had absolutely no idea why they were there or what why they got paid what they paid. And so this although we had difficult conversations has helped us tremendously. We've been able to recruit

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some people. We've had some people tell us we didn't pay enough which is probably the way it should be. um you meet somewhere in the middle and that's probably the way it should be. >> Yes, sir. >> So, so everybody everybody fits into a whole >> every single person in this >> on this on this guide. Yep. now and all

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you're advocating for or asking for is that as time moves forward some of these classifications need to be adjusted because of their duties have changed or their responsibilities have changed over time maybe from when they were

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originally classified >> because department I understand that correct >> yes and department heads come and justify with Brian and I when we're putting the budget together >> sure >> for changes >> there's no one else for the people that report to to justify to except me. >> Yeah. >> And so it has to be me that advocates

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for him. You guys know that technically I could probably because the policy says director of schools establish a salary rating. >> I'm always going to be transparent and tell you what I think. And so that's that's why I'm being transparent and tell you at some point whether it's this year, next year, we need to look at

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those. And I don't think you can bump there is a 117 that's open. I don't think it's fair to drop those four people back a level either. >> Yes. Yes, Miss Sharp. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. And I'm going to beat the drum again. We need to change our teachers to twice a month pay. >> We need to go back to it.

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>> Spoke with several that were uh present this week this last weekend at the Leverne uh and some of them were very very good metro teachers level five and they they would jump in a heartbeat if they if we got paid twice a month for >> Where is the county on that?

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>> Nowhere. Um, but I now have a little bit of data that I can use. And so I can't teachers have a perception survey they submit to the state every year. And so I get information that I don't I can never see where it comes from or anything, but I get the a copy and I can I'm

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authorized to share it with one person. And so of course I shared with Dr. Martin, so it's the only person that can see it. And so we can go through and theme it and literally I have to sign a document saying I won't share it, do anything else with it. But we can count up the number of people who say like what is a big concern for you and the

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number two issue was by monthly pay. I never thought that it was going to be that high. So you guys are spot on. That is uh behavior was number one. Continuing to attract behavior or to not attract behavior. We don't want to attract behavior attack behavior. Number two was the being paid twice a month.

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>> And I still don't understand since we do pay some of our classified EAS twice a month. I don't understand why this is so hard. >> A lot of it dealt with clocking in and clocking out for certified employees, and I didn't want to subject our certified employees to that because I

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feel like that's disrespectful to classified staff or certified staff. >> I I I agree. I agree. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> that's what would be needed. >> Several of us up here were not happy about clocking in and clocking out for a lot of our employees, but that's neither here nor there.

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>> So, any other questions? Miss Maxwell. >> Yes. Um >> Dr. Svin, you said every step is 1 point what? >> Every year step is 1.6 on the classified scale. >> Okay. >> And then every

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scale um is a 5% increase like change. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It is not that way just so we're it is not that way on certified certified the average is 1.6. Um just historically every four years under BEP you had a big

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increase and so when we were putting this together four years ago we had to get the average to 1.6 but as you get to the end of the scale there's an increase but some of those are only a 0.25 or a.5 your bigger increases are at the beginning for beginning teachers.

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>> Anything spot you have a question? I've got Yes, I've got something on my mind. So, the decision to do that the once a month pay, Dr. Sullivan, is that a state thing or is that >> No, it's a county and I don't have payroll staff any longer. That's a

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county decision. >> That's what I was saying. And and now I would advocate for that because I, you know, being an old dairy farmer, I mean, we got a check twice a month. you know, we got we got a prrated share, you know, two weeks in and then, you know, a settlement check, what we called

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settlement check at the end of the month and that paid for, you know, butter fat, a little bit of overage or whatever. So, I hopefully they can get that changed at some point. >> Yeah, >> I hope so. Without >> Well, I just I I wonder

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>> without making our teachers clock in and out. That's the big thing for me. >> Right. Right. I concur with that. I don't I don't advocate for that either. >> No. >> Yes. M >> Dr. Sen, would you tell us how long when someone starts here? How many is it 10 weeks? >> No, we're we're now this year we changed

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that. Now they get paid in August. We did get that fixed. That was this year. So I think Michael >> for it's a it's a long time to ask someone to go without pay. It really is. >> Absolutely. Yes, it is. >> Yes, Mr. V. I can tell you from from oldtimey teacher, I tell you what, I

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used to man I about starve to death before we get the first paycheck in September. Man, beanie weenies were awesome. You know, Raymond noodles, we didn't have them, but if we had that been we like starve

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to death, so we still watermelons back in Is that it? Okay, next director's update. >> Yeah. So, hopefully this is some good news. It's weird timing. So, I mentioned to the board back in our budget updates why we had to come back and vote right

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before the health and education in the budget meeting um about the public infrastructure grant. So, the the money, so it's the public school construction maintenance we which was the $25 per kid that was part of the education savings

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account that came for um part of that bill. So, that money is hopefully supposed to be dispersed by June 30th. And so, that is that's an issue because June 30th is the end of our fiscal year. And so we have to upload by June 15th a

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application which is Monday. We have to upload an application for what we expect to do with that money. Uh knowing that June 30th is the end of the fiscal year. So we were awarded and just so everybody has if you want to write this down. It's a it's a good amount. We are a tier one

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district which means we got $25 per kid. The amount will be awarded to us as long as our application's approved. 1,289,738.119. So that's the $25 per student. What again, because it's going to come June 30th, it's probably going to roll

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into fund balance. So then we're probably going to have to go back and ask, but since it's state money, surely to goodness, we won't have a hard time getting that out. uh what our thoughts were, that's why a couple you walked in, train, Brian and I were meeting trying to come up since this is such a quick deadline. Our thoughts right now are to

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use about $300,000 of that for some of our security camera upgrades because it it can't be something that is already been paid in the past. So, they can you can use it for general maintenance, you can use it for construction projects,

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but it can't be for something that you've already paid out. Well, we're at the end of our fiscal year, so we've just about paid out everything. We can that could be for next year. The other thing we looked at was we could use that million dollars for the transition academy. We've talked about going ahead and building both of those.

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That's what we're thinking about for the application. If you have any other options or any other ideas, if you can tell us between now and Monday morning because we need to get an application in. If they don't submit it to us by June 30th, it probably won't be a big

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deal because then we can go back and it's in that fiscal year anyways. But from right now, it looks like they plan on giving it to us by June 30th. We won't be able to start those projects. It'll roll into fund balance. We'll have to go back and ask for it. So, timing is weird, but we appreciate the money and it is a reoccurring expense or a

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reoccurring thing. They're going back to 2324 for tier one. And so the first qualifier is you're either a fast growth district or you receive the highest amount for achievement. And so we

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received the 4 million in 232 24. It is allocated again for the next year as of right now and we did receive the full 4 million again this year. So we should get it again next year. >> Can I ask um I think what you wanted to

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do is correct and I would not be against any of this. Can Daniel McKe come into that discussion? >> It's totally up to him >> because I don't think it would take a lot of money in, you know, comparatively to to do what we need to do out there

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versus No. >> No, ma'am. You're going to need five or six million. >> Okay. >> Daniel McKe. >> Okay. Well, thank you for telling me that finish >> 24,000 square feet, couple stories. I mean, that that's what we've kicked around. Now, if you want to go something

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larger, you know, we haven't done any kind of program. I've been budgeting numbers off some basic things. It's going to be hard. And I shuddered kind of You don't want to say this. It sounds like I'm being flippant.

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A million dollars doesn't go as far as as we would like to. We've talked about the transition academy. We're looking at for this million dollars. I think we can build both of them. >> Okay. >> That would be one on the north end and

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one on the south end and and it's money. I mean, I don't know. We've all tal You've all talked about it. We were going to have to figure out how to fund it and it's a program that everybody sees that it needs and we need to get out of the house on MTSU's property. >> That's true. That's true. It's short.

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>> The White House is still available and it's uh turnkey ready. So, but also one thing that we had talked about before was some follow-up training from defense systems. >> We wouldn't be able to use this because it has to be construction related. >> Okay. >> Construction or management. Okay.

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>> Or management. Maintenance has to be one of the two. >> I was really hoping we'd be able to use it for maintenance funds that we've used or those type or maintenance things that we could go through. But all of our POS are expensive. >> So, but the security cameras could we >> security we could say is construction related.

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>> Okay. Oh, then do we need more um metal detectors? >> It's not a bad idea either. >> Yep, we can put that as a great idea. >> So, yeah, >> for sure. Great idea. >> We had not thought of that. It's a great

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idea. We definitely could use them. >> You know, I'm a I'm old math teacher and $25 a kid. the amount of money we get ends up in $38.19. They takes taxes out of that,

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>> I'm guessing. No, it goes back um to the 23 24 school year. So, it's going back. >> Oh, so it's not this current. >> No, it's going backwards. >> But, you know, >> and it doesn't include prek either. >> $25 a kid though, it ought to ought to end up with,

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you know, $25 or 50. >> Yeah. You would think it'd be way more than that even. >> Yeah, I was. Yeah, we were thinking 1.7 is really what we were thinking. >> Okay, >> any other questions?

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>> Um, and our websites launch on Monday. We'll do a huge We have new websites, a new app, all those different types of things that'll launch on Monday. Um, it was part of the communications things we're doing this year. One platform for communications we'll be able to text parents. We'll do a huge launch on in

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July. But, uh, Jeremy, is there anything you want to add to that? >> Yeah, we're really excited to launch for Monday. My team will be on standby all morning to troubleshoot any sort of, you know, as we discover links that are broken where we've been working for months to get the migration going. Uh, but there's always going to be little

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things that, you know, we've missed or that's outdated or something like that that we'll be working on. Principles will notice and will send us. Uh, but there is a new apps already available that you can download now. Uh, and then the rest of our platform will launch over the summer. the the messaging and those kinds of things. It's rolling out

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piece by piece, but the website's the big piece and they look really great. The schools are really happy with it. So, information is organized really concisely and easy to find for parents. So, we're excited. >> Okay. Yes, Miss Sharp. >> And open enrollment is not open now

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because of the because of that. So, we have from now until when can they start? >> Well, it's not because of the websites. We we're also switching to a new what's known as a student information system. It's called um synergy. The so enrollment will begin again on July

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22nd. It was available through the end of May. Then we're kind of in the blackout period now and then the new enrollment starts um third week of July >> and that should be statewide for everybody. Everybody's either staying with or upgrading their SIS.

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>> Do we have a count on who's enrolled? How many have enrolled already? It wouldn't be because everybody rolls. It'd be way high because everybody rolls over unless they own it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other questions? Okay. General discussion. Anybody want

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to bring anything? >> Yes, Mr. Hawk. >> The uh and I know all of us have received that email and talk about something just a minute. the uh the situation out at Blackman or that I don't know who that group is that is

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asking for um testing and and I I just want to ask Trey had Mr. Lee had he ordered geotechnical testing for the Dismix property? If he is he has if he hasn't, what do we what action do we

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need to take to assure those people that we are checking all of our school sites for um any type of deficiencies. I guess that's what I'm going to call them right now. But we live in a unique geog

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geological uh area. Uh and so there's always going to be pitfalls I guess to any piece of property that we look at or even homeowners. I mean we deal with it on the farm all the time. And so um I I

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think those people have a legitimate concern. I understand that. Appreciate it. But you know where where do we stand? I guess is my question. >> That a fair question? >> I'm I'm gonna answer the last question first. Perfect. >> Because we do do the testing prior to

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purchase. But >> can you explain what >> we we hire multiple engineers, civil engineers, geotechnical engineers. We actually I go so far as to hire a

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geothermal contractor to go out and drill a hole 350 ft deep for two things. It tells us the conductivity of the soil or what's there and it also gives us a look subsurface.

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So we do look for those kinds of things. Um we also look for carsted features. Um that's a that's a politically correct term for a sinkhole. Um sink holes um

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are more of a liability. they show larger openings in our rock formations that we have in this area. So, we do spend a lot of time looking um and those engineers look for those kind of things

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because if there's a problem underneath it for a well, it's a bigger problem for a building. Um we also uh spend a lot of time with TACK. Everything we do is Tde approved. Um, whales fall into that category. They

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the the well guys that do this work are obligated to Tdeck to provide a lot and there's some information out there floating around that discusses the depth in a a one foot void at a certain depth where they're getting that information from our drillers who are sending it

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into TAC. So all all those kind of things are even after we begin construction all of those things are under TEC oversight and they are monitored by Tde. Um so so we do attempt to the best of our ability to do our due

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diligence before we recommend to the board that we purchase any piece of property. Now I'm backing up to answer your original question. My department has not been authorized to proceed with anything. this board needs to take action to authorize typically uh if

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you're the next question you're gonna ask me is how much money typically for the testing that we do u we typically do traffic studies we do a lot of things it's usually around $100,000 now times have changed

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uh things have gone up uh how much I haven't even solicitated begun to solicit pricing from the engineers that we normally use But if I had to give you a number today, I'd say between 100 and 125,000.

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But we have not started anything. I have not written any POS. I have not begun the process of reaching out and asking for proposals. >> A couple reason I brought that up. One that I wanted to make sure that we were moving forward with the dem property. Um

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that we do need to get that information brought back to us. And the second thing is to try to put our citizens, as many of them as we can, at ease that we do do legitimate testing uh and check these sites out. And I I'll share this, my experience being on the

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PVA u when we built the parking garage on top of the u uh old Daily News Journal building. If y'all can remember that, that's been I don't know 10, 12, 15 years ago. We did the same type testing and the engineer, you know, we

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did core bill drillings and all that kind of stuff and everything came back checked out pretty good. Well, when we got into construction and and I'm telling this story because no matter how much testing we do, there are problems that arise and we have to be flexible

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and smart enough and the engineers and um contractors that we hire have to make decisions to to, you know, keep us out of trouble. But this particular thing, it was interesting every where the grid cores were that they went down 20 ft.

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They they no no penetration. And and Dre, you may find this interesting, but in between they had hit every one of them and there were pinnacle rocks within 5t of the surface. And so when they got into excavating the site, all

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of a sudden we've got rock here and dirt here. Rock here and dirt here. And that was an ab I I would say it was a nightmare. It was a $100,000 change order is what it was. And so you find out those things, but I think it's prudent and and I'm asking direction here. Do do we need to bring this up

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Thursday night? Do we need to bring up at the next board meeting to appropriate this money to move forward? That's I would love to hear general discussion from the rest of the board what we what action we take. Well, I definitely would like to get it on at the very least at the June 23rd

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meeting, if not earlier. How about what? Thoughts? >> Sure. >> Are we still waiting on uh commission to approve? >> No, because we actually have to purchase it to go and so we've agreed to a

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contract, but we haven't agreed because everything is dependent on testing and everything else. So we don't go ask for funding until everything is approved after testing and everything. It's the way we've done it in the past. We have the six month, three month, six

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month, >> 180 days, >> 180 days. And so then we do that testing during that period and then we go ask for funding after that because we're not going to go ask for funding until we know whether or not we're going to purchase it.

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So that's what you need from us is just authorization to go ahead and start that. >> Just just Mr. Yes, Mr. Darby. >> I'm just walking this out because we could go through the testing and the

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board could vote to move forward with it and the commission could still >> correct >> nix it. Correct. >> Correct. Yes. So would it not be more prudent to go to the commission and say if the testing all comes back and the board votes to move forward with this would the funding be approved because

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otherwise you're potentially taking $125,000 and burning it. I mean, I hate to say that, but it just I I would rather know like I know I think previously some of the some of the

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property we purchased we had funds involved and so it didn't seem so, but this just seems like a I would want to know that if everything works out that we're good to move forward with it because then otherwise you're kind of you you're potentially wasting that money. I would imagine it'd

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be probably partially our funds again that would have to be used because they're not going to go to the bond market for property. At least from the conversations we had, this wasn't part of our budget request. So, they're not anticipating funding it right now. >> So, then where would where would our

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funds for that? Because it's what 8 point something eight >> fund balance or fund 189. And that depends on how much when the year ends, how much extra revenue is there. And we just don't know that yet.

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It should be several million. I just don't know how many million. >> Miss Maxwell. >> Yes. >> When will we know that number? The year in >> July something. My mid July >> year end closed. We probably won't know

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it until August till all the POS are finished, all the POS are liquidated, see how actually bills, all those type of things. >> Um, not trying to switch gears here, but I did have a question. So then the top two

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teacher issues they had issue with was student behavior, >> correct? >> And bimonthly pay. >> Yep. On the student behavior thing, we've also put in these behavior interventionists and that has been wellreceived. It >> has. There's been a lot of good feedback

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from that. >> What else are we seeing? It it and I'm going to circle back around to something we talked about before Miss Maxwell brought up tonight about Daniel McKe >> and some of the capacity limits that we have at Sarna West and Daniel McKe. Is that playing a factor into to what we're

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seeing because students are in a revolving door? So, they're coming right back out of the program versus the 90-day program. Is that part of the cost? What What are we seeing in this behavior that's becoming >> It is. That's part of it. Part of it is we had and and we talked about a little

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bit on the north end of the county especially, and I know Miss Maxwell and Dr. Rston met with um Shane Reeves, we've had an explosion, and I don't know another way of saying it, of DCS students who have been sent to us the

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last part of the year. um and dozens of students who are all very high needs who when you have that and we of course want to serve students but very high need students who then are taking seats that we weren't anticipating. Uh we have a couple

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different homes, one on the Leverne side and then one right across the border into Antioch. very very fluid in um mobility between that enrollment and we've had a lot um a whole lot and that's that's been tough to serve. I

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don't know another better way to say it. It's it's I can get you a number but it's it's much more than we've Did you remember a number? You went with that meeting too, didn't you, Dr. Martin? >> Yes, sir. Miss Maxwell and I went to that meeting and I want to say it was tripled quadrupled from what we've have

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in the years past. I mean it's a significant amount. Is that what you remember as well? >> And and they were not our students. They come from all four corners of the state and >> they get placed into the DCS homes and we're the LEA that has to serve. And so we were already struggling to serve

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students who live here and now we're serving students in a group DCS home. So it's it's taken our resources. >> Uhhuh. >> Whoa. Whoa. Wait a minute. Time out. then how the I mean they've got to be served. I'm

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not casting stones and I'm not throwing anybody under the bus, so to speak. However, if they're high need students, do we need to do they have to be placed in

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traditional classroom settings or could we establish a school specifically to serve those homes? What what what's the limits? I mean, what what does what does our board

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policy and then what does state law allow us to do? Because again, because I'm thinking I'm thinking out loud for everybody. These kids are in transition. Hell, they're not going to be they're not happy they're there to start with. All right. Then second thing is you've already got a continuity within the

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school that they're getting dropped into by a helicopter, so to speak. and those teachers and other students and administrators, we're asking them to step up and do a task that maybe if we if we could control the and I hate

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to use the word control the narrative but control the policy that it would be advantageous for everybody that especially them >> you know they are coming from four corners of the state and they're coming here for to those group homes. Do I call

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them group homes? >> Yeah, they are group homes. Okay, you want to and so can >> before she speaks, I do have the number for you. >> Yes. >> So, um I'm sorry, I don't have my glasses. During the 2425 year, we had

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196 students in DCS custody that were placed here in Rutherford County home. As of March 17th, 2026, that number had increased to 523 students placed in our homes within the county. Hell, that's a

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school. No, >> I I mean, I apologize for saying that away, but wait a minute. We We I'm not We need to think through this and really create an environment and and and Butch and I've kind of tossed this idea around

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a little bit, and I hate to use the word, but many of us are old enough to remember Castle Heights Military Academy, and there's nothing wrong with it. It it it it focused on discipline. It focused on structure. It focused on academics.

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And and and I'm guessing some of these kids need focus, structure, and academics. If if they're being pulled out of their home environment, I'm not a specialist. Don't claim to be. >> I didn't get into specifics because

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there's hippos. No, >> but I'm believing that a lot of these kids were very low ID. And in fact, the comments were not only could they go to our school system, but if you can't handle it, they can go to

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Rutherford Academy or Genesis, and that's very, very expensive. And uh so it was Yeah, it was a lot. >> That's not what public education is for. It it I mean, you can't we can't turn our backs, you know, cast them down the stream, so

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to speak. Well, somebody there's somebody else's problems. But the other side of it is we we need to have structure enough that we protect what what we have here already to be able to serve everyone. Does it make any sense what I'm trying to say here? I don't

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know that I'm articulating >> and and and again a lot of these students if I may add just a little bit the the impact not just the number at our schools but a lot of these are on the north end just because of the border with um

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surrounding districts and counties but also with this large influx of students. So then that impacts transportation, right? Right. >> Class size as you're saying, all of those things, but transportation and buses, you know, and changing routes and all of that's affected by this high

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number of students. >> What I'm think trying to think out loud is that can can these two or three agencies come together and come up with a better plan? >> Well, the good news is we did have >> we did have a good meeting because the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. And I'm not going to

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come up here and I'm not going to beat up on DCS. We just had a mess through it. It's a real mess. And we finally did we we we got our we got a nice meeting where as we because we told them I said we want to meet with people who are change makers who will make changes and

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not just okay we're going to listen to your concerns. I don't want to listen to your concerns. I want you to take what we're telling you and help us because they did not know. I mean the left didn't know what the right hand was doing and they had no idea. They didn't know we weren't getting compensated. I

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mean, it was it was a lot, but I do fully had a productive meeting and I want to I want to thank our legislators for stepping up. Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> Go forward, Dr. Martin. >> Um, as she was saying, DCS was at the table. You um, one of our concerns was

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just being able to have conversations and really looking at what was best for students, those individual students that were coming to us with placement. So they understood our lens from that and so some things have have changed positive direction with that. But Dr.

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Rston does have a follow-up meeting with them next week as well to continue this conversation. So it hasn't just been a conversation and halted. We are following up with it as well. >> And before Mr. Ultimately, there still has to be a place for students to go and

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the places right now that there have homes for are North Rutherford County and North or South Metro. So, that is I don't see that changing the numbers. Mr. Ridley, I know you wanted to add something about serving. >> Yeah. So, you know, for each student,

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obviously, we have to take their needs individually and we have to give them what's called the least restrictive environment. So, even if it's a school that or excuse me, a student who's receiving special education services, um it wouldn't be possible to put them all in in the same school because the

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students may have different needs. Um but I think the issues that we have seen is that these students are placed in a foster home. They may be coming from Sullivan County in East Tennessee and we get these students really with no

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information. Um, you know, and I hate to say it this way, but there have been instances where DCS has just dropped them off at the front office and they walk into the school and we have no information about them. Um, and so that's a big part of the problem. And

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then of course the supports that are needed to um, educate these students. Um, when they're when there's such a huge influx like Dr. Martin said from 196 to 500. We can't just adjust that quickly without additional funds, additional

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supports, additional teachers, EA staff, all the all the people that need um to be there to, you know, help those students. So, I know that Dr. Rston really saw this and and saw the increase and, you know, some of the challenges

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that that was presenting us. And so those conversations started happening with Miss Maxwell and and Dr. Martin and um Dr. Rston. So, you know, we're we're still working through it, but there are some real real challenges.

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>> Yes, Dr. S. It really came down to like our resources being depleted because we had so many students we were serving and TA is great but when you're getting $11,100 for a kid and we have students who are moving in in summer quite a few are

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having to go to different placements and you're spending $100,000 a kid on Genesis and very quickly you're you're way over your your shoes on what you're spending on students who you didn't even anywhere intend to serve and with 500 students And granted, not all of them,

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but it's a higher percentage than our normal student population we serve that we are sending to different places. >> Well, and I think that's what I'm getting at is that some of them there these are expensive students to educate. Can we streamline? Can we create policy, a

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school, you know, something to help all of and I'm talking about you from you on down and from the teacher on up. it because I get kind of sideways a little bit because you know there's verse in the Bible that says you know take care of

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the widows and the orphans. All right, in my view these kids are orphans and they've been taken out of their house and I know some of them are discipline problems. I know that I'm not let's don't sugarcoat it that what we're dealing with here. But if if if we could come up with a policy, a structure when

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they do get dropped off at the front desk that boom boom boom boom boom. But I may be living in a pipe dream, Mr. Lee. I don't know. >> No, you're on the right track. >> You know, it's like I'm thinking, well, you know, they need to go to the Melvin Vault School of Busting Rocks and hauling hay. Maybe some of them they

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just need, you know, something to grab their attention. You know, hard work sometimes, you know, takes it out. But I I don't know. Maybe I'm living in a pipe. I'm sorry. >> I don't know the answer, but I know it's a huge concern. And of course, I don't I don't know you'll find a better advocate and protector than I am. It's something

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I'm proud of of this district, but it's something I'm concerned about because ultimately then it just continues your attrition of losing good students because if you have students who are causing issues in your classrooms and we don't have anywhere else to serve them, then you lose your your really good

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students for issues that are out of your control. And then ultimately public schools public schools struggle and then you end up losing industry and it's just a overall your community struggles like like we've talked about we're at that precipice of we're a huge district that doesn't act like it's a big district but

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these type of things are the ones that start impacting this big districts to where you start to fall. >> And I think the reason why they chose us was because our school system is so strong and that's why because I couldn't figure that out. Why why why Middle Tennessee? Why Rutherford County? And

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it's and it has to be because of our school system and our reputation, but it it was just too much. It was massive. So, yes, Miss Sharp. >> So, can we not use Simon Springs because it is a behavioral

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>> sped? It's full. >> Oh, it's already full. I thought we were not full. >> Oh, it's full now. >> Okay. >> It'll open with three seats open in the spring or in the fall. In the spring, goodness. In the fall. >> Well, I mean Okay. Yeah, because we try to keep it at six to eight per classroom

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just because of the needs. It's it's full. I wish it wasn't, but it's full. >> Good grief. >> Partially because of this problem. >> Any other questions? Yes, Mr. Tool. >> Who's choosing Rutherford County? Who is uh making the decision? Why are they coming here? Is there because

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headquarters >> DCS? >> They're headquartered in Nashville and they're making a lot of decisions and we're the closest neighbor. Is that kind of what the idea theory is? I'm just wondering why we've had such a huge influx. >> One one factor that or variable we were

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given is because of the cost of living in the Lever area is cheap. >> I I think one one one program had five different homes in Lever and then there were two other programs as well.

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These are private contractors. These are private homes. >> Say something. >> So, I want to say, you know, can we the zoning requirements, whatever. Can learn give us a heads up when they do one of

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these? I I it just as you keep saying, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing. And I'm I mean it's an issue with I mean the cows are out. Let's get them up. And I don't want to blame somebody. It's just an issue that needs to be dealt with. >> And I don't want to talk out of term, but I'm not. So we're we have some

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misgivings about some of these group homes. That's all I'm going to say. They're not >> Yeah, I get I mean everybody >> real real misgivings about some of these group homes. >> Sure. DCS has had its problems. I understand that. This is it's kind of one of those thankless jobs. I just it's

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kind of like picking up trash maybe. I don't know. You know, we thank goodness every day that that people come by and get our trash. We don't think about how it's handled or how it's taken care of. These kids need help. They need guidance. They need something. I'm not saying I'm not advocating turn our backs

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on them. But I I do think there somehow there needs to be some kind of policy procedure. We need some help. And that's what your meeting was. I take it with with Senator Reeves is that we need help, guidance, policy,

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>> money, >> you know, all the above. >> He was very he was really good. It was a really good meeting and hopefully the next meeting with with, you know, the followup will go very well as too because he was he was just shocked as we

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all were and uh he wanted to get to the bottom of this and fix it. Any other questions? >> Yes. >> Yes, Mr. Vaugh, >> when uh Truman Jones was sheriff, we went to Jackson, Mississippi

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and visited this program that um similar to that and was like a I want to say boot camp. What they did, they took and it's something maybe we need to look at is we can take these kids and

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sort of let them filter out through this program to see and let them know if they if they're going to be okay in regular schools and if not they they need some discipline part of it. I mean, there got to be some things.

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And if if a kid comes in here and you know, he's had a kid that came in and I broke assistant principal's jaw in Florida and you know, they just come up and dumped them on

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Central. They just dumped them on the front door porch. But, you know, kids like that need to be in this type of program and and to be evaluated and to help and let them understand this

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is what you expected, your behavior is expected in Rother County schools. And I don't know, it's my opinion. And we got to we got to start taking schools back because we've lost control of them.

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And uh you know there's 500 and something of these kids and I feel for them. I know uh they've had they've had a tough road to hold. But again, we've got to we got to do what's best for the rest of our kids

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here in Rose County and whatever money money it cost whatever it takes, you know, to get some get some people out, I guess, for lack of a better word, butt kickers, I guess they can evaluate

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these kids and say, "Hey, you know, this is this is what you expect your behavior is going to be, and this is what it's not going to be and evaluate them and and try to help them there. Like you say 500 something that's a

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that's full school and I don't know whether we need to rent a empty building somewhere and just start a program on their own. But you know we got to do more than just talking about it. We got to like Stan

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said you know the cow's out. We got to get them up. And you know, it just I think it's something we got to do to I think we owe it to our good kids, you know, so they don't have to tolerate. >> Yeah.

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>> All right. >> Yep. >> I can't I can't let it go. I I I know I need to, Claire, but I can't let it go. Is there it? So if DCS is making payments to a group home, a contractor to house

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these children, >> is the state paying us to educate these children? >> How how how do the does the funding trail them? How >> long? >> It's just Tissa. >> That's what So it's it's the state. So it'll be a year behind 11,000.

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>> Well, no, it won't be that. It'll be 7,500 from the state. Yeah. the 70. Well, and each kid may generate a little bit extra, >> right? But but we're I'm talking round numbers with you, right? I'm trying to think outside the box just a little bit. So, why why wouldn't you why wouldn't the state then or why wouldn't we hire a

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contractor that would house them and educate them and and homeschool them, for lack of a better way to do it, and and and maybe keep them in that small group environment. Even if we had to subsidize that with

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our local funding dollars, we're money ahead because we don't have to transport them. We don't have to disrupt our system too much. I probably need to hush right now, but I'm just thinking, is

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there a way to work with the state and reformulate the thought process here of how to handle these kids? I think this comes down to a sped in IDEIDA miss. >> Well, maybe it does, but it's fun. >> I think I think our hands are tied in some of this. >> Yeah.

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>> Right. Federal and state law, you know, is pretty clear with requirements about a free and public education for all students. So, we would not be able to put them all in one building. Also, a lot of these kids don't have behavior issues, right? They

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have been removed from the home of their >> because of safety or abuse neglect or whatever. Right. Exactly. Those kind of things. So, not all have behavior issues. Not all receive special education services. >> But in order even to put them somewhere

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like Simon Springs, you know, there are certain steps that we have to take according to law. We can't just on day one say you're going to Simon Springs or you're going to, you know, >> and that's the reason I'm bypassing that. That's really I'm jumping ahead of that. I'm saying homeschool them. It it

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is is come up with a program that these DCS contractors not only house them, feed them, >> then they educate them also. Then the child is not moved around from school to school to school, reshuffled in the deck

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and and and and we as a district then could save money or at least subsidize it. I'm just think trying to think. It's my understanding that per DCS policies k those kids in foster care any kids that are in foster care have to attend

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public school. >> I get that. But I'm saying we could we come up with an idea and take it to our state legislature next year and say I'm not saying s I'm not suggesting us circumvent the law. I'm suggesting let's think outside the box and even start a

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pilot program in this county that would be advantageous statewide to be able to say, "Hey, we can do this. These kids are taken care of. They're in a stable environment and in and anyway, I I don't know. >> I understand what you're saying. Mr.

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Tidwell, you wanted to say something. >> Maybe there is a program out there. Maybe there's a charter school that's already doing this that we could bring in and they could kind of take control of that that portion. I understand that line of thinking and I understand what

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you're saying about it's not all. Um but where I'd like to bring the focus back to is I understand that that is a portion. There's a portion and maybe it's higher in that percentage than other you know uh >> situations

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>> in other populations. All right. Um, however, if the the survey was across the district, right? So, across the district, behavior was the number one issue. >> Yeah, >> guys, I just don't think that we can avoid, we've tried this before with the

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third alternative school at Church Street. It just didn't happen. Things fell apart. I do not think that we can avoid that any further. That has to be a priority that we're moving toward. And honestly, we're going to start hopefully we start with Daniel McKe. I'd love that. Uh but you can't ignore it on

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Smrna West side either. They they have the same issues. And if you're talking about the disruptions, I've met with uh Dr. Brown when she was at Daniel McKe multiple times, talked to several middle school principles, high school principles, they all say the same thing. They hit their capacity early and then

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they just start cycling students. She would tell you, Dr. Brownwood that if you they go through the program, they have the statistics and the results that a lot of these kids come out way better on the other side. It's like a 90-day program or those that can come out earlier based on good behavior or

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whatnot. So, there's there is something that is working along with maybe other things like, you know, a charter school that addresses even certain higher needs. Um, but there's something in our district that is working that we don't even have access to fully use.

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We're handcuffed. We're handcuffed by building size. So, I think that's something that I know we all talk about funding. We all talk about thing and it's hard and we we're trying to balance everything out and I get it. I just think we ought to put that we've put on the radar a couple times. We even went

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forward with certain property that did not work out. But it's a serious condition and we are seeing that our teachers are saying across the district are saying behavior is an issue. We've done the behavior inter interventionist thing. We've taken strides. We've taken

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steps. All great. Not frowning upon any of that. Also, let's move forward with this. Let's create some space. I think it's necessary. >> Okay. >> Yes, Dr. Sullivan. >> And I'll say, of course, we do have middle and high school is where we have

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the biggest behaviors. Elementary is where we're still seeing the biggest concerns. And one of the biggest concerns that we're having, and this is going to seem crazy, it's kindergarten. And state law does not allow any alternative placement for kindergarten. I think it is because that's such an

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old, and this is just me thinking, it could be totally off, but when that state law was written, kindergarten wasn't mandatory. So, it says alternative placement for 1 through 12. And so, when I did the analysis, again, I can't tell where, but we have placements for middle and high. We have a little bit of placement for

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elementary. that when our elementary principles talk and when we talk to teachers, kindergarten is the grade level that just wears them out. I don't know if it's maturity. I'm not saying we need to go put an entire school of kindergarteners somewhere, but we have no spot if a kindergartener the only option we have is to try to convince the

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parent, hey, bring them back next year and hope they mature. That that doesn't help. that that may be a legislative change that in like in extreme situations maybe to to allow us, but we right now legislatively do not have an option for a kindergarten no matter how

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severe the behavior is. We had a couple kindergarteners who physically this year were not the way they needed to be with a teacher and I I didn't have anything I could do other than expel them, which was expelling a kindergartener is pretty pretty tough. >> Yeah. >> Didn't say anything. I appreciate the conversation. Yes. No, that wasn't on

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there, but I'm glad we had it because it needed to be brought out. >> I won't go back one more time. Now, I'm not going to talk about that. I'm following up on what Caleb said that you're talking about moving forward with the third alternative school capacity. You're talking about capacity. >> Yeah. Oh, just increasing the ones we have. >> Yeah.

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>> Creating capacity if could you come back with could you show us numbers gradew why? I have no idea. Yeah. and where and maybe a heat map. Of course, they're going to be I guess you've got more where you got larger

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populations or whatever. I don't want to pick on one community versus another one, but I you know, if we're looking at adding capacity or whatever, where does it need to be? I think that's what I'm looking for. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, you can you can do that, right?

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>> Do it just a second. Yeah. Anyway, anything else to talk about? Yeah. >> Yep. Are we all good? >> I didn't bring it up. I think >> you got it. >> I think I do. >> Well, that's quick. >> I have to submit it every year. I'm just seeing how long it's going to take me to

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for the state system to pull up real quick. Just to give you an idea of numbers by grade level and then I can get further. >> Yes. >> And just see how long the state system takes to just circle for a minute. So, you can see how frustrating this is for me sometimes. You want to talk about

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anything else while I pull this up? How do you determine is it certain schools go to Daniel McKe, certain schools go to Smyrna West? >> Yes. Based on where they're located. So my biggest question would be and I don't I don't know which school is in

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more need and I guess that's one of the things we'll talk about but if you're saying that the increase in students is sitting on the north end does does that mean that Smyrna West would need to be looked at before Daniel McKe because it would be serving the

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north end students versus because if you're if you're if it's if it's by zone if They're saying, "Hey, if you go to these schools on the north end and we have to send you to an alternative school, we're going to go to Smyrna West." Or, "Do we know if Daniel McKe room?" Like, that would be my question

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because this one of them probably first. >> Let me pull that specifically because this is just overall numbers. So, I can tell you by grade. So, if y'all want to write it down. Um so first grade student served six

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and again we started this about midway. Second grade student served three. Third grade students five. Fourth grade students six. Fifth grade students seven.

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Sixth grade 17. Seventh grade 58. Big job. >> Well, it's well and we get more seats. Eighth grade 85.

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>> Yes. 9th 152. 10th 136, 11th 135, and 12th 77. And the average length is still 45 days

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in the program. and 15 is 45. 45. The number of students that we had repeat in grades 912 was 26. In 68, the number of kids we had repeat was 11.

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And that's that's pretty close. That we had to pull this a little bit before the year ended, but that's that's pretty close. It's >> such a big jump between sixth and seventh grade. We get a lot more kids, too. But it's also you're going from

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sixth graders are still a lot like elementary. They still like to please. >> Yeah. >> And I do also like to bring up because I'm a middle school person. Middle schoolers, it's developmentally appropriate for them to challenge. That's what they're they're testing their boundaries. That's what they're I'd much rather them tested here than

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when they turn 18 and 19. And there's some serious consequences. >> Right. Mr. Von, I know that's your thought. >> Yep. Dr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Do they are Smyrna West and Daniel McKe the same

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size? Do they hold the same number of students? >> Roughly. Roughly. Yes. We and we try to max out at 120 at the very highest. We try to keep it at 100. >> Now, I went and visited Smyrna West one time. Um, are they the same

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age wise? >> Okay. It's on the surface. Daniel McKe. Now granted, they've had some minor improvements. Daniel McKe looked much worse to me, but that was that was several years ago. >> They're fairly close. They're also very

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close in size and appearance. That they both you go in the front, the cafeteria is on the left, the office was there on the right, and you just turned down the hallway. They're they're they're sister schools. Does Smyrna have some of the

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outside the portables? >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, they they have the same they both have about eight portables. I'd have to look at the number. They got six to eight. >> And we staff them the same. I don't remember which one. It's either Daniel or Smyrna West. One has one staff member more. So, they're because I have to I have to submit all that as well every

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year. >> It's been a while since I've been out there and uh I went out there when Judy Sides was out there >> and I don't shy away from sharing those numbers. I share those numbers because we do hold kids accountable. So, I mean we do that doesn't include our expulsions. That's the number of kids who truly went there. And so when people talk about, you know, you're not holding

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your kid, no, we're I mean, that's hundreds of kids who they had a mistake. We're not going to hold that against them forever, but you have to have a consequence for your mistake. >> So, >> how many of those kids are having to stay there the whole year? >> I'd have to pull it. That's a completely different report.

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>> Okay. >> Maybe not. Hold on. >> Yes, M. Darby. >> Mr. Can you put together some rough numbers on what you think because I would assume whatever we do would be about the same for either school. >> Could you just put together some rough

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numbers maybe for next week or our next June 20 is it 23rd? >> Yep. >> Meeting. >> I can give you some what I call square numbers. >> Okay, that'd be great. Thank you. >> Dr. Martin just pulled it. Daniel McKe actually usually has larger numbers.

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Yep. It has more high schools feeding to it, I believe, doesn't it? >> Or is it even four and four? >> I'd have to look back at that to be accurate. >> We had 52 kids who were placed in alternative setting for zero tolerance.

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So, the rest were violation of school rules or something else. I mean, I'd be interested to see how many, and this might be a poll for the principles, how many students either came back early before they finished the program, not on their own goodwill, but

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because lack of capacity, because the high school has each school has a different capacity or similar for middle and high school. and um whether or not this might be a polling question from the principles, whether or not they chose not to send them to alternative

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school because perhaps this kid, you know, had a a lesser violation than than one of the kids they already had in there and they didn't want the other kid coming back. And so, are those numbers skewed even f further? >> Yeah. >> Like, I mean, >> I'm sure they are just unagree. >> And I'm sure and and I I just want I

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can't reiterate the point enough. These schools were built back what 2000 early 2000s um and we've added portables of course but we've not add added major capacity at the schools and yet over the same amount of time the enrollment has

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almost doubled in our school capac. So we haven't increased the capacity by major leaps and bounds at the alternative schools >> and yet we've grew in student number by leaps and bounds. It just it just doesn't make sense. it it doesn't make sense and so maybe we haven't formulated

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the argument well enough but I think this puts the nail in that again here we are this was an issue two years ago was a very popular thing to talk about we made a lot of changes heard a lot of great feedback from those not trying to

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take away from that at all also this is just part of reality that we live in we need to find a way >> m we had an issue I'm sorry real quick have we had an issue with with trampers transportation because remember that was the big thing. >> We've had some but >> okay they seem to

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>> I say not as much as I expected but we have had some parents and we've had some parents pull their kids out and homeschool or but >> okay >> we've we've had some >> just curious. >> Yes, Mr. >> You said the average days at the school

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is 45 but the program >> is a 90-day program. >> We do 45 now for points. Is that still correct? >> That is the basic tier, but we also worked with the sending schools and the two alternative schools and and created

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a tier system. And so it depends on your infraction. The sending school gets to determine that that point system. So which tier that they go into, which determines how long you will be there for a minimum amount of time. But we've

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also added to that tier system, if it's your second time going to alternative school, you automatically have points added each time um you're sent there. >> And to ultimately to that, if you get to a certain number during like your high school grade band, then ultimately you

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can't go in here >> because we don't want the same repeat kids. >> We've expelled more than we have typically in the past. >> So can you get numbers as far as what Mr. Tidwell was asking? Do we have that data on like who was released

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technically before they earned their way out because we had to move somebody else in >> yet? Some of it's going to be anecdotal. We can probably get some data. As far as how many they would have sent, I don't know how to get that. But as far as how many could have been or stayed, we probably get close. >> Okay.

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>> We can give you close numbers. But I can tell you I have weekly conversations with the uh alternative school principles and then also the the school sending as well. And so if it ever gets to where a a school has exceeded their

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allotted number of students, um it's a case by case. So we I I don't tell you we always send someone back. If you have five seats and you've got six, we don't automatically send one back. We have a conversation and look at all the different factors. How long have the five there? How long have they been

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there? What were their infractions for the reason they were sent? If it was, you know, um something that caused a a large disruption at a school and police presence just because we're out of seats, we're not sending those students back. So, we're having a lot of

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conversations and looking at a lot of different things. It's just not an automatic um sometimes we we maybe are close on our numbers and a school has to send a large amount. So then we have conversations with the alternative school and we have conversations with

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that principal about um looking at the students list and determining which is the best candidate to return based on attendance behavior, grades, how many times they've been sent to alternative school. A lot of thought goes into that decision and you know sometimes we tell

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the sending schools sorry and sometimes we tell the alternative schools sorry those students are going to remain. So it it goes back and forth. >> Dr. Martin's an equal opportunity. And so in order for somebody to go back, they have to go through our office. And so every week, Dr. Martin has those,

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they have to send us the letters. And so every kid that goes back has to be approved by us either way. And so it's a every Thursday conversation with our alternative school. And sometimes we do have to say, "No, the your school's just going to be overloaded for a little while." And we probably do that more

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than the alternative schools would like. But if it's a serious offense, then we're not going to let you go back. >> Okay. >> You know, I don't know, maybe things a lot better, but do we need to expand the size of our

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alternative schools? cuz I mean seriously um as a former principal I mean if I had a jerkhead that need to go to the alternative school I wanted that sucker to go and >> if somebody's that desperate they're

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going >> yeah by the way >> to have to send somebody back that you know I just felt like everybody deserved their time out there you know I don't I don't believe in sending them early early turn.

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But yeah, it it uh what do we need to do to expand? Do we need to add another one? >> Get money >> funding. >> Yep. I'm just a moment. Mr. Tidwell. Okay. Go ahead, Mr.

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>> Well, kind of following up. I'm still on this kick with Caleb on this. The logic being population's double. We haven't doubled capacity for it. if we need to add capacity from help us think through

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this from a management standpoint. Do you create in hand having an alternative school? It's kind of like having a oh I'm going to get in trouble saying it this way, but I'm going to call it a sick pen right now. On the farm, if we've got

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cattle that are sick, we separate them out, right? Well, there's only so many that you're going to want to put in that pen. it from a management standpoint is a you know that 120 the right number? Could you go to could

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you manage 250? What I'm getting around to asking is do you add to these two campuses or do you create a third I would add to the campuses. It's going to be more cost effective and they're too small right now. >> Well, that that's what I was wanting you

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that's >> we would have to add resources. is you'd have to have an extra SRO, an extra administrator, >> right? Okay. >> Separate the middle and the high school so that they're not together. >> So, you designed you designed it where you could keep the middle and the high school separate. >> What what would as a professional

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educator, what would be the maximum you would ever want in an alternative school? And I know I'm putting y'all you on the spot and maybe y'all want to confer about that. >> I wouldn't want more than 300 at each one. >> Okay. That's what I was looking for.

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And that and that's high like that is the very max. >> I was thinking 250 but >> I don't think it matters so much about the total number in the whole school. I think it it's how many is in each class. Great. >> You know

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>> agree cuz those kids you know you don't need over probably 15 in a class. >> We try. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know >> Mr. Mr. Sidwell was wanting to say something. >> Uh Dr. Dr. Sullivan, just as we're having this conversation and obviously

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it appears where the board's head's at on this particular item, could you also get feedback from our, you know, who's in the trenches, our alternative school principles and see, hey, if we were to move forward with some kind of bill, what can we do? What are you seeing that

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would be a a great improvement that would be useful, the most efficient? I mean, nobody's going to know it better than them. Um, so just getting their feedback would be helpful. can do. >> Okay. >> Wow. This was a very productive discussion. >> Appreciate it. Yes.

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>> And uh do you have anything to say, Miss Sharp, or are we ready to >> I was going to ask, do we have any opportunity for the high school students at the virtual school or at Holloway? >> We wouldn't want to put them there because they would be they would count as part of their testing cohort. So,

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right now, we do have a virtual option at both of our alternative schools that they work with the instructional coach through. The way the enrollment works is we would have to put enroll them at the school and they'd have to take their test scores. That's the unfortunate part. The way they rewrote the law maybe four years ago.

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>> So, >> same for same for Holloway. And they are so small. If we put them in Holloway, it would it could decimate their test scores >> for their scores. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Just a FYI, both those schools are the same size and they were both built in

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1950. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> They're they're sis. I've always thought they were sisters, but I never really paid any attention to what year they were built. They were both built in 1950. >> Thank you.

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>> Well, that's everything. >> We're ajourned.