--------- You were coming from the sky. >> Yeah, we hardly ever saw. >> That's why I would stop and ask if I didn't know if you were still there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. You ready? >> Sure. >> Adam, you on?
>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Go ahead and call to order the um Sanford City Commission and work session for July 13th, 2026. First item for discussion is property tax reform. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the fish commission. Um the finance director,
Miss Sydney Lindsay, is going to do a presentation regarding ideas about how the city can adjust should the property tax amendment be adopted by the residents. Good afternoon, mayor and commissioners. Um before you do have um an agenda item
on the possibility of doing a fire assessment fee. Um that was one of the discussions. Um if you will look on the last page, I did do a spreadsheet of what um each division and department
um budgets are for 2027. in the proposed budgets and the salaries versus operations. And if we did a weighted cut across all the departments, how much they would have to cut um to make up the 9.3 just for a visual. Of course, this
is not how we would actually do it. Um but just to look at what we're facing um financially. Um, as you know, as the mayor mentioned earlier, um, in the budget work sessions, the salaries are 70% of the budget,
the general fund. So, and if you look at the cuts, some of these cuts would op would wipe out operations and departments totally. Some of them wouldn't, but some of them would. Um so some of the um options to address a
possible $9.3 million reduction in revenue, one of the biggest ones would be of looking at the possibility of a fire assessment fee again to offset some revenue cuts. Um if we did um do that, if you wanted us to look at that, we wouldn't have to start anything right
now. We could just be prepared. Um, so if it did pass in November, we could have everything ready to go because you do have to have it approved by December 31st in order to enact it but for the next budget year. Um, the the agreements
anyways, you don't have to have the actual fire assessment approved until the following budget, but you have to have all the agreements in place this December, >> this December. >> This December >> in order to affect next year's budget. So we would have one month from the
election. >> Correct. >> So if if you if that is something that you would be willing to look at if we possibly face the 9.3 million, we would have all the agreements ready to go um and set to be approved in November, December, and then we would start
looking at at the actual fire assessment fee after that. >> Okay. Well, >> back up back up and explain that again. >> Thank you. >> What has to be done by December? We have to have um the agreement with the property appraiser, the tax collector
and the notification to the public that this is something we are considering. Not the formal legal notification, just the a general notification that that is what we're looking at. >> We didn't do that that far ahead last time. >> We had done it the previous year before.
So, it was already still set in stone for the last time, >> right? Because if I remember correctly, okay, [clears throat] those had to be done the year before. >> Correct. >> But then we did the actual studying and deciding what the dollar amounts and all that would be and then there's the other
letter that goes out. >> Right. >> Is that right? >> Right. It wouldn't be the legal letter that caused so much um issues last time, >> but it um a notice um it's a resolution and a notice in the paper um that we are considering the possibility of a fire
assessment. >> That's what has to be done by December >> and the people are going to have a fit because they're going to say that we're doing exactly what they said we were going to do, which was put it out there, get their input, and then slide it in. Well, of course they'll say it, but they
they should know that we didn't know property tax issues going to happen. >> They they should know a lot though, Claudia. But yeah, >> that's going to burn. Of >> course, they also keep asking, will tell us what's going to happen.
>> Yeah, I'm just stating the obvious. I I see where we're at, >> but I can I can see the the push back on that. >> Yeah. Again, the agreements don't h nothing has to be done until after the November election other than being ready to do it. Um, we don't have to post them
or anything until after the election if that's something you decide to do. >> And I would also add to what Miss Lindsay is saying, if we don't do it this December, then we can't do it next year. So then it'll be another year before we could do anything. >> And we have a November 10th meeting and
a December 8th meeting scheduled right now. I would imagine we should prepare for potentially another meeting November, December. >> It would make sense, Commissioner Thomas. It really would. >> There' be a lot going on depending on
the vote. >> Of course, we do have other options. We could outsource police. We could outsource fire. Um >> but those don't save us money. >> It depends on how you um do it. If if we outsource fire, you just don't lower the
millillage to the amount that you outsource fire to the um county. >> It does not save our residents money. >> Correct. Well, neither would a fire assessment fee. It would >> Right. e any of those choices is going to cost them.
>> Would that hurt the fire department? >> Like I >> I mean, they're going to get the savings if the $150,000 homestead exemption passes. The homeowners will, but the other people will not. >> The renters and the businesses are going to look at more. And we are going to
tell them that we would potentially be cutting $1.9 million from the fire department's budget if we don't do an assessment. >> We kind of explained that before, too. So, so since you've mentioned it and
you've mentioned it won't save us money, >> can we put on the record how this works? >> What do you mean? How what works? >> Fire assessment fee. >> No, turning over outsourcing. >> Well, I think we >> you've been >> the calculations still need to be done
on the fire department. >> Yeah, we don't have the >> But you've been here in the past when that's been looked at. I do my own calculation every year or so >> and what we pay in millillage for our fire department is always less than what the county pays in millillage for their
fire department. But it's been getting closer, >> right? But but the our residents will still have to pay for >> right >> that fire, >> right? And if we don't reduce our millillage by the amount
that they're going to pay to the county, they're going to be paying more, >> right? Well, not the homestead, >> right? Yeah. If it passes the homestead, people would maybe break even. >> Yeah. >> And I've also asked the county about
that issue because, you know, they don't have other revenue to backfill the fire department. >> When that I mean, the cut in millillage to the county fire department is a cut to the fire department. So
>> they can't outsource theirs either. >> The only way they can do it is to raise the millage. I believe what um so since we're talking fire specifically uh
we currently don't bill the actual cost for transportation. Am I right on this? >> Correct. >> And that's something else we could look at. >> Can we get a number on how much it how much it would help us if we did bill
full cost of deliver of uh transport. >> Yeah, we could do that. [clears throat] >> And then uh Mr. Sorry, >> just [clears throat] just a caveat on that. Medicaid and Medicare still are not going to pay that. >> True. True.
>> So it's not going to affect a lot. >> True. >> But Medicaid and Medicare do not pay transport at all. >> They won't pay the full price. They pay their >> they pay their what they say they'll pay. >> Right. >> Yeah. We do not
>> we do not break even. It's even the charges that we >> right. That's why I'm thinking we need to raise >> take a look at that. Um and then the other other idea uh that that I've learned about uh comm uh m Mr.
Bonapart is um is perhaps you uh might want to consider uh in one of your X-man meetings discussing a desk audit on uh on every position in the city
and uh and see where maybe we're at. Patrick, >> what does that mean? What does that >> basically looking to see if if every position we have is This is what we need.
If we took this information combined with that exercise we had done last year, we might be able to come up with some more realistic numbers rather than just that straight cut in each department.
>> Right. Well, um, in in that exercise, it's nothing compared to what we would have to cut if we don't come up with >> I'm just thinking percentage wise, >> right? >> And basically though, that exercise we did last year was a straight cut. That we asked each one average weighted, you
need to cut this, you need to cut this amount, this amount, this amount. >> Okay? >> So, that's what this is. That's not a way we would have to do if we had to cut $9.3 million. Yeah. That's just a visual representation for y'all so you could see what what effects it would have.
Okay. Um, another last idea is to um recover 100% of our costs or our services u parks and recreck is subsidize $5.6 million with property tax money.
Um, I don't know if we did true costs for parks and recck if we would have anybody attend anything though. That's another issue. >> Well, if their if their option was to pay some additional costs versus we're not going to have that program anymore, >> right?
>> Well, I was just looking here. It's funny you mentioned recreation, but if you if you look right there, a big chunk of recreation is the 9 million. Um, and so we we're going to have to uh have
that discussion at some point >> of what are essential services in this city. Um, and if we're facing a 9 to10 million cut um, >> these are realities. >> It it it really brings a hard reality.
The museum is 2.7 million every year. >> Is that is that essential? >> 237,000,000 That was Please don't mess with my museum. >> Museum got way nicer. >> Yeah, man. >> You were looking up the line at streets. >> Yeah. >> Okay. The total budget. No, it says
total budget for recreation museum. >> It's 291 325. >> 291. >> Okay. >> All right. What's the 2 million above it? >> Street. >> That's street park public works. >> Public works. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> You're just a little skewed there.
>> Okay. So, when would we realistically need to be like looking? I mean, we need to be looking at it right now, but we don't know anything until November. Thank God nobody up here is trying to run for office. Um,
when when would we need to schedule a special meeting? I know you just talked about that, but I'm saying literally to look at this stuff because I don't want to be in here and saying, "Well, let's cut all parks and recreation." Not in agreement with that at all. But like after Mr. Bonapart I I know I know you're not I'm just just
>> Come on, work with me. >> After Mr. Bonapart does his his just do with the the dust thing that Patrick talked about and I talked about some restructuring. When do we need to add this extra meeting so that we can just kind of start narrowing this stuff down
even though I know you said it doesn't really take into effect not this year but the following year. Right. >> Yeah. I would I wouldn't suggest going that far until after we know the results in November. >> Okay. >> Well, that would be the February through
July part of figuring out the budget, >> right? >> That's that's when the that's when the hammer hits. So, I'm still right though. If you look at the total recreation there, we're close to 9 million. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um and that includes the museum,
whatever number I saw. >> [snorts] >> um that that's the harsh reality we're facing. And I had already previously asked Matt, right? Uh what the cost is we spend every year on taking care of all of our parks and and I was seriously
concerned that we are going to have to close some of them and possibly sell them. Commissioner, there is a seminal county city's current budget that includes money to have assess appraisals done in all their parks on a number of their
parks >> for that very reason. >> Yeah. And a particular park real close to here might sell uh nicely. Um and that and that's that's the brutal truth that we are going to
have to face. Um, unless we just try to outsource everything >> and or increase revenue like a fire. >> Yeah. >> But outsourcing means cutting jobs. >> Outsource what? >> Outsourcing means cutting jobs.
>> Uh, not necessarily. >> Okay. >> If you outsource, you still have to pay. So, I've never seen an outsourcing that really saved a significant amount of money past the first year. >> You would only outsource if you wanted to eliminate or freeze, right?
Well, I thought that was the term you used for police and fire. Is that not the term you use? >> Okay. Um, I don't know what term you want to use, but but typically when you outsource something like the city of Orlando has
done, every city around us has done this. I tried to get us to do this a couple years ago. uh a lot of those employees are are given a chance to go work for the new company that that is going to provide the services. They have uh first right
to refusal for for the position. >> Don't they usually have issues at the upper levels? Too many cooks, chiefs. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Commissioner, I would share with you that in another jurisdiction far far away, the school district saved money by
outsourcing its transportation. >> Yes. Yes. >> The employees, the bus drivers were offered jobs with the new company. >> Mhm. >> That paid less and had no benefits. Mhm. Mhm. >> Well, that happened much closer to home
cuz I think the last real big outsourcing was solid waste. >> Mhm. >> And most of the people that were working solid waste for us had an opportunity to go work for the company, but the big and I brought it up at the time, the big difference in the cost was benefits.
>> They didn't offer them. We did. >> Well, >> that's why we were going to save money because they didn't get benefits. >> I don't I don't know. I don't know if the numbers changed, but aren't we about 28% for just F FRS benefits?
Isn't that >> I think that's about right. Don't you can't quote me on it, but I think that's in retirement benefits alone, we pay 28% of whatever your salary is uh to the FRS for your retirement.
uh years ago when when uh the state made us start paying our 3%. Everybody was so mad they had to put in 3%. But they didn't realize their employer is already putting in 28%. Um so it those that's where it's not so
much the position and what they pay, it's the added cost. How much is our insurance for next year >> per person? >> No. Well, okay. Per person? Yeah. I think it's around $2,800. >> $2,800. So, um it's a lot of money in
benefits. Um so, yeah, unfortunately, uh sometimes in outsourcing to private entities, uh the benefits are are lost. >> Okay. Um F FRS is 17% right now. >> 17.
>> Wow. It came down. Yeah, they actually did lower the reg F FRS. >> Well, I know that's half the reason why most employees are here because of the b the benefits in FRS. >> Y knows why. Well, you know, for for
years the discussion about better pay, we we have we've had that discussion and we fought that fight and and we improved pay uh in many positions across this city. But but on the other side was we knew that we were still offering them
benefits that they may >> not have elsewhere. Um and so a lot of employees saw that >> uh and some employees didn't >> uh and went elsewhere. But uh that that's that's a constant struggle um in
hiring and maintaining uh employees. >> So back to the question at hand. >> Yeah. Do we want the opportunity um to have a fire fee in the 2028
budget? That's that's the question, right? >> Correct. I think we need to consider it as an option. >> I I think too I think we need to go go down that road. >> Um and obviously we can always not do it. Um,
but I think we need to prepare ourselves. >> I I think we would be doing this city an injustice if we did not at least um at least prepare for >> for that. >> I agree. But we would need to do some strong communication regarding it
because I don't want to be looked at as a liar to the people. Now, I'm not saying that anybody else does, but we were sincere about how we looked at that and we, you know, people came up here with their kids and everything else. Sure. >> And you know, I'm just I'm I'm and I'm
not saying nobody else is. I'm just saying I'm really for the people and I >> we made a good decision like a slap in the face and I just can't I we we >> I know what needs to be done. I'm saying we just need to make sure that we are really in front of that giving a clear
message of we are in dire need and this is why we have to go that way. >> Well, but but but a couple of us up here knew that we were headed down this road. This has been discussed. This property tax has been discussed for years in Tallahassee. >> Yeah. >> And we knew Dantis was going to push
hard for this before he leaves. >> And so that fire fee was considered last year because we knew where we were headed. We did not we did not sell it right. It it was not received right. And
and it's a different day now. Well, and I think our our biggest fault in how we did that was we were deciding on the fire fee after we established the budget. >> Yeah. >> When when people asked me, "Do you need
this?" We had a balanced budget. You could not honestly say we'd have to have it this year. >> Well, but >> but we can honestly say we have to have it next year. >> But but mayor, we did need it last year for for equipment and >> all the equipment that we needed was in the budget.
>> Yes. We would have had an extra >> Anyway, that's >> it was it was >> that's what happened forward looking plan. >> Yes, it was. >> We should have looked forward an extra six months earlier
>> and had it decided before the budget. But anyway, >> but we absolutely will leave everything on the table >> like everything has to be on the table. Yeah, because a letter this time, machine Britain, will be definitely rewritten be better just without even
thinking about the property tax issue and then supplemented with here are the various ways we can do this. This fire assessment fee is one potentially the best way to do it, but if we don't
tell the public, here are the other things we'll have to do if we don't. I agree with you, Claudia Thomas. I'm just saying that and maybe instead of a letter, it needs to be a video coming from all of the commission and and and city management and just really digging
deep into this thing because I don't care how much we know better and we we know better on a lot of things because this is the language that we speak. Our residents don't and it looks like they that that trust that we keep trying to build with the people. I'm not.
>> Yeah. This is It's like change management where you know something ahead of time. You've got to give everybody else time to catch up. Yeah. >> To have all the information. We communicate it more than once >> and in more than one way. >> Yeah. >> But it uh I'll say this that the letter
is required by law. We can do additional stuff. We can do a video, but the letter is required by law. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But we'll supplement it better than we did last time, too. And just to um let everybody know, I have prepared my staff and have um we
are working towards possibility of having to start the budget in December versus February um next year um or it'll be this year um if if necessary. >> Okay. >> Right. And just one last thing because
it's what I told the news earlier this afternoon. You know, one thing that we need to look at is what is the actual vote? Because if local voters are voting to have less services and then we turn around and insist that
they have them, >> that that's going to be part of the conversation. >> How do we get that? >> What do you mean? How do we get that? You're saying we need to make sure that what what the people's vote is like are we trying to get that before we trying
to get that information be before the this takes place in November with the less services? Are we doing a poll? Like how are we trying to get that information up the election whether seminal county voted for it or not? >> Yeah, I Okay. >> Yeah, >> I get that. But I'm just saying
>> I don't understand what you said and I think that's what she's trying to say. If seminal county voters vote strongly to cut taxes, they're voting they want fewer services. >> But not many people understand that. They're looking at it totally different of how they save money. They're not thinking about
>> so many people think uh first of all, they think we waste too much money. Second of all, >> they think they're going to save a ton of money. >> I'm already starting to see a little bit of a trend toward >> rational thinking. There have been a
>> which is good. >> I think >> there are a lot of places where I was seeing the initial oh great we're saving money >> and you spend too much to oh this is what it's going to mean. Well, fortunately, some some people are starting to see and think, wait a
second, all we're talking about is all the money that we're going to save and that the cities and counties are going to lose, but we're not talking about how the cities and counties replace that. >> Okay, >> that's where we have to continue to educate.
>> All right, so the consensus is prepare documents for fire fee. Should we talk about right now or later other kinds of fees that we should consider, not just fire fees, other ways to bring money? >> The only other option that the ambulance
fees which were brought up and the only other one I could think of right now are parks and w >> right >> charging full cost for their services. >> Parking you put parking meters back up. I you know I'm glad you mentioned that because
that's something that I have always had in the back of my mind anyway. If we had parking meters bringing more income plus perhaps discouraging some regular folks who are taking up parking places that our visitors would love to have um and
some cities >> do those market lights that got to be paid for. We got those flowers that got to be paid for. What about uh so what about raising the impact fees? >> That won't help. >> Huh? >> Raising what? >> Impact. >> Impact fees.
>> Yeah. Wrong color of money and but we are actually in the middle of assessing our impact fees again. But >> yeah, that won't >> they can only be used for new items, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Uh >> I don't know if you noticed, we have a lot of new items we need. >> Yeah. >> But parking fees, it will be definitely
everybody will complain about it. will get bad press. But if it comes at the same time as you know we need to do something and it may not be a permanent thing. >> No. Okay. Anything else on budget?
>> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Cindy. Okay, >> Mr. Mayor. Next item is a report on the Gold Facade and entertainment revitalization grant and that is radio. Speaking of spending money,
>> thank you, city manager, mayor, commissioners. Um, Miss Green and I have been working on this and we thought it would be imperative that we give you kind of a last opportunity for input before we bring back what uh we're hoping to be a final resolution uh for
your consideration in two weeks, maybe four weeks depending on the input we get today. So, [clears throat] uh, you do have as part of your agenda the drafted resolution, which again I appreciate Miss Green's assistance with. And we also have Pamela Lynch here. And
it'd be remiss if I didn't announce that Mr. Kenneth Bentley uh, from Goldsboro Main Street is also here uh, if he'd like to say anything or if you have any questions for operationally how they anticipate uh, putting this into place. [clears throat] So, as you uh scroll through and a lot
of this has been touched on uh as we've previously discussed this, but I did want to uh bring your attention to a couple of items. Um about the fifth whereas down uh you'll see what the uh funds and programs and projects would
include but are not limited to and as it reads facade improvements to commercial properties, local festivals, and entertainment events. I was uh as I last read this, I was going to get with Miss Green and see if there's an opportunity for us to put an infrastructure uh
component in there. Some some minor infrastructure. City of Sanford's actually done a pretty u good job in that historic Goldsboro Boulevard corridor on the storm water front, undergrounding electric, uh things of that nature. But there are some infrastructure rather than just facade improvements. I was going to get with
Miss Green on that language. So it's almost almost amenity type infrastructure or not. >> Correct. That's similar to and I don't want to bring up the vacuum sewer system. Similar to those kind of hookups though it's it's there's some unique parcels in that
corridor from a geometry perspective. >> Okay. >> And infrastructure perspective that uh actually commissioner Wiggins and I are working on a project right now uh where that comes into play. >> So any other uh questions on that front?
The next whereas uh the u exhibit that Miss Green is is referencing uh is that prescribed area that we've already talked about. Basically, you have to have frontage along historic Goldsboro. Obviously, these are limited funds. We want to uh maximize the concentration of
the funds use. So, that will be on the corridor in Goldsboro proper. So, uh think uh the entrance there on 1792 at the barn all the way down to about Cruz. >> Yes. Uh any questions on that or clarifications? Um some of the Yes, sir.
>> In the future, um we wanted to change that boundary. It would just be a new resolution, right? >> Correct. It would it would, as I understand from Miss Green, it would just be a change of that exhibit. >> Okay. So, the uh formal name uh is the
Goldsboro Redevelopment Entertainment Arts Track. Next, whereas is the exhibit B, which is the actual application that residents, business owners, uh, and and groups in that corridor would would use. Uh, Miss Lynch and I will be using,
again, we're trying not to reinvent the wheel here. Uh, we're going to be using basically the CRA uh, form for a grant application that was used in the past downtown. We will tweak it. We will also uh and we get to this in a later part of our discussion here today, but we're
we're going to have those those limitations, those uh parameters, those expectations for uh um grant applications. So, next page, and please stop if there are any questions, but the creation of the
historic Goldsboro Advisory Board. Uh this was uh significant uh to Miss Green's um input here. Um what we are looking to do is rather than if you guys will recall or if this commission will recall, we had talked about potentially
having the Goldsboro main street as currently consisted administer this. I think Miss Green was right in suggesting that we have an actual advisory board specifically attached to this program. That said, uh I think that the community and and I do have Mr. Bentley here. I
think you're going to see a quite a bit of cross-pollination. Uh a number of the folks that are on Goldsboro Main Street board would be offered as nominations by the Goldsboro Main Street uh community uh for consideration in that inaugural
class u for that advisory board. Uh those six individuals were uh hoping and I think Mr. Bentley's confirmed as of this morning that we would be uh presenting at least for consideration discussion those folks at the same time that we bring the final resolution to you all.
>> Okay. So section 2A though uh it still says it's the members of the Main Street Board. >> So we're rewriting that. >> That would be Go ahead, Miss Green. >> That's really what we wanted to have up for consideration. >> Okay.
>> So and I I should have uh framed it better. What what Miss Green said is let's give the commission the opportunity to consider a separate board. My original preference, but Miss Green makes makes a good argument to the counter. My original preference was let's keep it as Goldsboro main street
board. Uh but the composition of board members in this advisory capacity. I would somewhat envision it as almost a a committee within Main Street uh that would uh be responsible for the disposition of the program. So really
it's it's up for the commission's uh consider. >> How many are on the main street board, >> Mr. Bentley? >> 10. >> Okay. >> If we went with another board along with it, how would we choose the board member? >> Well, it's suggested that everyone get
one appointment and the mayor gets two. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But what if we fire the mayor to save money? You know, that was suggested. >> I know. [laughter] >> I told him I'd give up my $30,000 if
that would solve the problem. >> So, again, if if there's no really strong input on that, uh, what would >> a question? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Some boards where you have rotating chairs, they don't really have an opportunity to develop the skills they
need to chair a board. Uh this says one-year term for the chair >> for the chair and and again we would defer to the commission on that. That was just some uh template language that we wanted to start the discussion with. The board member terms are limited to two years and what our hope is that
there generate some excitement. There are some new bodies and new folks that would like to get involved. Um >> but I I understand your concern there. If you would like we can alter that language to limit that chair position to two years. >> Yeah. I mean, if I were coming in as a
chair and assuming that, I would probably think, well, the first year I'm going to get it comfortable, get to know it, and then I can really start to make things happen in my second year. >> I But I don't think they have that much other than leading the meetings. I don't
think they would have a lot >> to learn. >> Mr. Bill, how many years does your uh person right now for you guys, how many years does that person have to run the board committee? three. >> A lot of people are anxious when you
first >> Yeah, that's a good point, Mr. Bentley, because then you might be saying, "Oh, I have to serve two years." No, I don't want to do that. >> Yeah. And we want to make sure we got people that's bought in to make sure it's going to be successful >> and not just doing something. though.
>> And it says they um they must be members of the Goldsboro neighborhood. >> Yes, Commissioner Thomas. Uh she's referring to page three, section C, eligibility. I think this was important to both the commission and the community. Uh so as it reads, currently all members of the historic Goldsboro Advisory Board shall be Goldsboro
residents or business owners within historic Goldsboro. Okay. >> I do want to uh get the commission's feel on or property owners within the corridor. Uh there's a number of properties there where we have absentee landlords. Um unfortunately that has
presented uh challenges everywhere from Tony's department to my department over the years. We would like to engage some of those property owners if they were willing uh to be stakeholders more so than >> I'd say five years from now we have to have so many members. Are we comfortable
that we'll always have enough members if we restrict it to Goldsboro residents? Well, that's what I'm having a hard time with sitting up here right now is we already [clears throat] have a lot of boards we can't fill in this city. >> That's what I'm wondering. >> Talk about that tonight. >> No. And Commissioner Hust, I do agree with you there. I will say I've met with
the Main Street folks uh a number of times this board. And I don't want to speak for Mr. Bentley, but I I don't think we're going to struggle to not only fill this. I I think there's going to be an excess of the number of folks that we need to serve on on the uh >> Well, that's a good problem. >> I don't I don't disagree initially,
>> right? I just, you know, >> touche. >> Uh, people say go ahead. >> You know, go ahead and finish, commissioner. >> No, go ahead. >> Yeah. And I understand your concern, but now with Goldsboro front porch and Goldber Main Street, I need to give you a history. We've been doing this since
2001. J Bush is long gone and we're still a we're one of three go front porches that are still in existence in the state of Florida and we get no funding from the state of Florida. We have some real stakeholders in Goldsboro. >> I understand that. >> They want to see this through.
>> How many board members does front porch have? >> 10 on front porch. They have 16 17. >> Do they? >> Yes, they do. We just had the banquet Saturday night. It was the 25th anniversary. Had a wonderful time. We have committed people. And I know by coming to all the work session that you do have boards where it's hard to have
people on these boards, >> but that's not the program for us. Now, I want to ask you this one thing. We want to have a board that can work together. Mhm. >> I don't want people appointing people to this board that can't work with people. >> Yeah. >> We don't want to be Edenville. >> We want to be Goldsboro. >> We do not want to be Edenville. We want
to be Goldsboro. So, I'm asking I'm throwing myself on the mercy of the court. >> We want positive people on this committee. We don't want nobody we got to argue with every other Tuesday. >> All right. I won't appoint Carrie Wiggins to the board. >> I think he's made the point. >> Okay. >> You have appeased our concerns.
>> Yes. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Oh, yeah. A couple other things, too. Um, so we're doing two-year terms with no more than two consecutive terms, but all of our other boards are four-year terms. Three consecutive
terms. So, what >> I'll check to see if it's three consecutive terms, but I do know that it is four years. So, we can open it to four years. Again, this was just to have that initial discussion and see what the preference is. And this is why we didn't put it on the initial agenda so that we
could get more input from you. If you're wanting to do four years, >> yes, I would better. >> Well, >> well, I like Commissioner Thomas's point of >> consistenc. So,
>> the first year or two of this group will be uh and and I don't think there'll be that many funds the first year, right? Am I wrong about that? >> It' be the second year or the third year, the fourth year. Well, that depends on how much the city commits
because it's not a >> correct. >> It's not a specified amount like the CRA was, >> right? >> It's an amount that the city commits to it. >> Correct. And for uh conversation tonight, currently, and I I know Cynthia is still here, currently, I believe Cynthia, you have uh earmarked about
75,000. Uh but again that's uh subject to the commission's uh final approval but that was the number that we discussed at the outset of the uh of the program. Um mayor if if you if I could the the next item is meetings. When are these
meetings again to this commission and to the community's perspective? That's why we liked kind of an umbrella organization where you're not adding another day to an advisory board that may or may not take more than five or six actions in that first year, first six months. So, we don't want to have a
Tuesday 7 p.m. meeting for six folks to arrange their schedule to come and not have a grant application to speak to. So, uh we're hoping to keep it as uh reasonably managed within the infrastructure we already have uh in place as possible. uh the implementation
and uh with this it's going to uh be a deferral to Mr. Bonapart on uh Miss Scoffield, Julie Scoffield who uh you all know has an active presence over at Main Street. Um I I would envision this being a collaboration of Miss Scoffield,
her institutional knowledge already in place over there, my own department, uh and Miss Lindsay's department. Miss Lindsay and I are committed to a a very monitored system that Mr. Bentley is is is well aware of. So I I would see kind of a a trilateral
responsibility from staff's perspective. >> I I see your point not meeting for the sake of meeting, but I think there should be an established schedule. So it's not just, oh, we need a meeting, let's call one on
this day. >> Okay. And mayor, I I see your point there. if you would let me work with Mr. Bentley and Miss Green because maybe we can incorporate that into their regularly scheduled meetings that Mr. Bentley and and the the 10 folks on one
side and the 16 folks on the other already have in place. >> So, I'm thinking something just randomly like second Tuesdays as needed. >> Great. >> Got it. >> All right. Right. And mayor, that's uh
the the the gist of this. Uh if if Miss Green and I uh can have this ready for two weeks from now, we we will do so. I would like a little more time. I think Miss Green would agree uh to get with Mr. Bentley and his uh team. uh but uh
really we envision in the next two to four weeks uh this next meeting or the following meeting to bring uh both the final resolution to you all for consideration as well as that uh nomination class of the inaugural Goldsboro Advisory Board.
>> Okay. So just to make sure we we've got consensus on everything. It's not going to be limited to the Main Street Board. It will be open to anyone um living owning a business or are we adding owning property?
>> Um I'm I'm hesitant on that. But if if Mr. Lassard thinks that that's a good idea, then we can do that. >> You don't have to appoint them. >> Correct. because I I think there are property owners that some folks on staff and in the community
would be reticent, but at the end of the day, the commission would have to approve any folks that are nominated. >> Right. >> The big thing is again, like Mr. Bentley said, we don't want nobody with no food. We want to make sure whoever we are nominating for this that it's going to be successful and can work together. >> Right.
>> So, >> well, and this won't require you to bring any of those people in. It just opens up the aperture a little in case you get short. >> Yeah. Well, then then do we want the board appointed by individual commissioners or do we want
to vote on all the board members? Because as it's set now, um Commissioner Thomas could pick the um hardest to work with person and say that's her person. I could or I could have nobody that I want to pick and then you end up short.
>> Pick somebody from Canada. [clears throat] >> Only if they have property in Gold Square. >> Why can't we do it like we we always do? >> Nominate nominates so and so and Patrick says >> what's listed in here is each of us gets an appointment. >> Correct. >> Is that what it says?
>> And and that was another point. >> Everything else that's we vote on each of the board members. >> Correct. I think we need we would want that flexibility. >> So vote on the board members not appoint each person appoints. >> Okay. Perfect. >> Y'all agree. >> Agreed. >> Cool. >> Okay.
>> But we can nominate. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah. I mean that would be like >> always like we always pass back and forth and say, "Well, I want this person. I want this person." >> But they still have to be very fine. And I will say that corridor uh actually Eileen's department, my department, we're working with a group right now
that is very excited about planning about uh close to $2 million at the [snorts] end of the day. I think they are anticipating one and a half. But I I at the corner of Holly, Mayor, you probably remember this. I know Commissioner Wiggins and I have talked about it. Uh Mr. Kirchov's former
building there at the corner of Holly and historic Goldsboro Boulevard. >> Um that's going to be a very nice project. group out of Ovito's moving their business there and be a very very sizable improvement to what that building looks like [snorts] currently. There'll be quite a bit of demolition
between the front Mediterranean building and the back warehouse. Uh everything in between for the most part will be demolished and reconstructed as parking, patio area. >> Okay. And then we're going to set a
meeting schedule but not require that meetings be held. >> Correct. Okay. Is that everything? >> And then for the terms, are we going to go with the terms that are about adopted for all the remaining boards or >> That's what I want. >> Is that four years?
>> Yeah. >> Then I'll just adopt the language that we already have >> in our certainly make it easier to remember. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Lard. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of Commission. Next up is the utilities
update. No, we didn't ask. >> Why is there Why Why did that happen as you walked up here? >> Really? >> Mr. Johnson walks up with a thunderous applause in the background. >> Is that your entry music? >> Mr. Thomas just answered. >> Is that your entry music? There
>> you go. Let's go. >> All right. Um, good evening, mayor, commission. I'm Brent Johnson, public works and utilities director. Uh, tonight I'm going to give you a a brief update on uh the utilities division and and what we have going on. Um, I'll get
through this as quickly as possible. I know we have limited time at this point. Um, so our mission statement is simply to provide the city of Sanford utility customers with drinking water, sewer service, and reclaimed water in a safe and effective and environmentally acceptable and approved manner.
Basically, uh, give them the highest quality that we can provide, whether that be through water treatment or through wastewater treatment. Um, not going to spend too much time on this. This is just showing our service area. Uh the purpose of this map is to show uh geographically the amount of
ground that we cover and that we have to maintain throughout the city. Um I you all know this. I'm sure we're about 25 square miles which is rather large. Um and even though this is our service area, we do have uh areas just outside of the city that fall in the county that
we do provide services to as well. Um here we have a this just shows that not only do we have a lot of underground infrastructure throughout the city, um all of these little green dots are all of our lift stations throughout the city and they touch pretty much all the corners of the city. We have 83 lift
stations throughout the city that we maintain. Um all of our underground as you all probably know and and one of the points of this particular presentation is to update the community um for political consumption. We want them to uh for public consumption, sorry. We
want them to know what we do and we kept it very high level. We didn't get into the weeds as far as you know technicalities and things of that nature. Uh and we want because we know you all are aware but we want them to be aware of all of the things that we do and maintain. And so here um are all of
our lift stations throughout the city. And like I said there's about 83 of those that touch all of the corners of the city. >> Only 83. >> That's a great map to share with everybody. A lot >> only 83. Um, so the utility services, our budget is about $67 million for 2026. Uh, as you
all know, our estimated population here in the city of Sanford is about 68,000. Now, what's important about that is that that number has grown significantly in the last 20 to 30 years, although that number has almost doubled. Our staffing hasn't doubled. Not that it should be a direct correlation, but our staff has
pretty much remained fairly stagnant throughout that growth. So we're expected to do a lot more with a lot less. Um so it leaves us to try to be uh to try to find ways to provide better services. Um but a lot of it is trying to find ways to be more efficient in
providing those services. Uh we have about 345 miles of water pipe, 180 mi of sewer pipes. We have 108 miles of reclaim pipe. And we're talking miles. These aren't feet. These are miles. So you're looking at 345 miles. That's
probably here to what? Key West probably um and then 1,600 fire hydrants, 68 miles of pressurized mains and then we have we have about 108 employees in utilities that includes plants collection, distribution, um customer service as well as
engineering. >> I'm sorry. >> Yes, sir. >> We don't have to go back but I >> of course we can just expand for since this is for public consumption.
uh expand on the $67 million budget and how that's separate. >> Yes. So, uh utilities operates on user fees. So, we build the customers based on the amount of water and potable water that they use as well as reclaim. So, we're an enterprise fund and that's
separate from the general fund. >> Right. >> So, I think what you wanted said was property taxes don't go towards >> no property taxes go to towards this. >> Yes. This is a separate fund and that that 67 million can only be used within
this >> for utilities. >> Utilities utilities utilities. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> You're very welcome. >> So reclaim pipes wise is four times the actual length of the city 25 miles. You got four times that just in reclaimed
pipes alone. >> Yeah. It's an extensive pipe network that and and I put that slide on there because people don't, you know, they look at everything above ground. They see the plants, they see the lift stations, but they don't understand a majority of our infrastructure is underground. Um facilities that we maintain, we have
our north water reclamation facility, the infamous northwater reclamation facility. We have our south south water resource center which is down on Cameron at the south end of the city. We have our main water treatment plant near the Mayfair Golf Course. We have the
auxiliary water treatment plant which is on 1792 just on the other side of the 417 flyover. We have vacuum sewer pump station. Uh I will stop there for a second and say that we are in the process of refurbishing that station. I think it's in a lot excuse me >> a solvent.
>> Yeah. So we should be done with that in the next 3 to four weeks. >> Commissioner Austin would like it to work. You don't know where it is. [laughter] >> I do know. So I think there's a slide later that talks about this but we are in the process of rehabbing that. Um and
once again we have 83 lift stations and then the combined number of miles of underground pipe is almost 700 miles of pipe. Some of the challenges that we face um you all know that we have old infrastructure is almost 150 years old.
Uh the infrastructure may not quite be 150 years but it's pretty close. And so we have the challenge of trying to maintain that old infrastructure and in in those cases where we can uh we try to upgrade that or put in new infrastructure. Uh but while we're trying to maintain the existing
infrastructure, we also have increased demand by way of population growth. And that population growth causes a whole another set of challenges because now that's more infrastructure that we have to maintain. That increases our capacity um at the wastewater plant. It requires
us to be able to keep up with demand with respect to water production. And so we have a lot of challenges and a lot of battles that we're fighting all at once. Um, speaking of challenges and battles, we also have FD FD compliance issues for the public. FD is Florida Department of
Environmental Protection. Uh, they are the ones who um provide regulatory standards for water and wastewater. Uh, we do have some issues dating back to I put 2021 2022. Some of them date back a little bit further than that. And you all have an item tonight on consent for
a payment to FD for $181,000. And um that stipulated pen penalty is directly related to a lot of the things um that for lack of better terms weren't done in the past >> and before your time >> and before my time. Um but we are working working our way through those
and we'll discuss those a little bit later. Then we have the cost of repairing and updating the facilities. uh which kind of goes along with the next bullet point of funding mechanism. So uh quite naturally it takes money to do all of our projects and there's only so many ways to fund those
projects. As Commissioner Austin mentioned, we are uh we do charge user fees and those user fees do cover a lot of operations, but we also have other challenges when it comes to capital improvement projects and we do go after uh state revolving fund money, SRF loans. But in order to get additional
SRF loans, you have to pay back and close out SRF loans and agreements in order to get new money. So at some point in the future um probably in the near future based on all of the capital needs we may be looking at some other funding mechanisms such as bonds or something to
that extent >> um but we will do our best to u continue to go after grant funds which we do talk about in another slide. Uh and then lastly, staffing levels, which I already which I already discussed and that um it has not necessarily increased with the
population and so like I said, we try we try to find ways to be more efficient to keep up with the requirements. >> Mr. Mr. Jones, I'm sorry. >> Yes, sir. >> I think this is an important interruption. >> Oh, go ahead. At the budget meeting, we
discussed possible staff uh positions. We never did discuss the utilities ones that Mr. Johnson was requesting and it came to my mind that that is not going to affect
our budget, it's going to affect his budget. Um, and so while he's mentioning staffing levels, I wanted to make sure that we put it on our radar that we still need to discuss that. >> Yes, sir. There were two positions that we were required.
uh lead electrician and lead lift station mechanic I believe >> and that's to create better uh chain of command kind of similar to the public work side of my house where we have superintendent and then lead personnel
>> and he did not pay or promise me anything to bring this up >> sure completely on my own [laughter] >> what document was that on the one I What? They are. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, they're good. >> Okay. >> That's why they're not on the unfunded list. >> Okay.
>> Oh, great. We're good to go. Thanks, Andy. >> I have two more requests if that's the case. [clears throat] >> So, the current FD, the FDP consent order. I mentioned that we have a current FDP uh payment that we're going to be requesting that you all approve
tonight. Uh and these are just some examples of the comments that they have on the uh consent order. Um it once again it's a combination of current and past years. And the reason that it's current is because the reason I say current is because they did an inspection back in 2025 uh and found
some additional items to add to that. But some of those were items we were already working on. And when you're working on items in utilities, unfortunately, it's not like remodeling a house where you could start the day and finish in three or four weeks. It's a lot of time in doing engineering documents. You have bidding and then you
have the construction which oftentimes includes long lead times for materials. So the first item is the interim limits. That's ongoing interim limits deals with um uh the amount of uh nutrients that we're sending sending out into the
system. So we have to reduce our nutrients or do a nutrient reduction uh process. Uh that's usually phosphosphorus and nitrogen. You guys hear that a lot about nutrient reduction. Um what they've done in essence is they they've given us higher
limits to help us. So FD is they are trying to help us. They are trying to be our partners. Um but we have to do our part as well. So they've increased those limits, but they're only going to increase those limits for a certain period of time. So they're giving us time to correct our issues to get our limits back down to where they should
be. Um excessive foam that's ongoing, although we have it somewhat under control. um it's still ongoing. Uh portions of the power supply are nonoperational. That's been a huge hurdle for us to try and figure out where our electrical problems lie. And because of those electrical problems, um
some of our emlers and mixers aren't aren't necessarily fully functional, but uh we should have a study done next week or it should be submitted to us by next week from your gallery, which is a an electrical study which should show us where those problems are so we can fix them and stop tripping circuit. Yes,
sir. nutrient reduction. Yes, sir. >> We did just get two and a half million from the state >> uh to go towards that project. >> Yeah. A lot. >> What does that entail? >> A lot of that is going to be on the uh
uh on the colle on the collection system side. So, it's going to be the the sewer uh manholes and and gravity system. >> Okay. That's what we've been getting monies for for years. >> Yes. >> So, we we're still not done with that. >> No, we're still getting funding. And there's a slide that speaks to the funding as well.
>> Okay. >> Um and I'll run through these pretty quick. Um we have um leaking RAS and WAS. RAS is return activated sludge. WAS is waste activated sludge pumps. That should be corrected by August of 2025. We have a cross connection program that
in essence didn't exist. >> That was corrected in August of 2025. >> Oh, was correct. Sorry, was corrected in August of 2025. Okay. >> We have a cross connection program that virtually didn't exist. Um and a cross connection is basically your backflow prevention program. All the commercial
businesses have backflow uh devices and we didn't have a program where we could monitor them. We now are in the process of uh finalizing a program with a company called BSI online and that doesn't really cost us anything. There's a nominal annual fee, but they really get their fees from the plumbers who
submit the certifications to them for approval. And so we should have that program up uh fully operational here very soon. uh groundwater well uh MC uh MWC2 severely corroded that was corrected in August of 2025. Well security corrected in August of 2025 as
well. And then we have a master pump station lining. So D um came in and did an inspection last year and they said that we have to line our master pump station. It's a big wet well that's underground. Well, we already have plans to completely rebuild not only that but
the headworks. Headworks includes your wet well, your uh grit removal system. That's your odor control, which we're going to reuse the same odor control system we just bought. Um, and your grit your grit removal and bar screens. So, instead of just lining that wet well,
which we could have done, but it really wasn't going to do much good, we had already embarked upon the process of getting design done. And I think we're at about 30% 30 or 40% design for that project. And that's one of those projects that we're going to have to look at getting some additional funding to be able to to to implement. Uh
because like I said, that's going to be an entire headworks including including a 5 million a 5 million gallon uh equalization basin. Uh and so we're trying to stay ahead of things. Completed projects over the last 2-year period. Uh we completed um the Headworks
odor control system, which I just mentioned. Um we did the downtown conversion, took two businesses off of the system, put them on lift stations, and then we took another business off of the vacuum sewer and put them on the gravity system. Uh we installed uh new diesel pumps at our lift stations.
Diesel pumps uh basically serve as their own separate little lift station. If that lift station were to go down, that gen it's not only a generator, it's a bypass pump built in. And so if that lift station goes down, that entire process should be um fully operational.
Um we installed two new bar screens at the Southwater uh resource center. Um, it was only they only had one before and then another one stopped working. So, we installed two. The system was designed to have two, but they only had one. So, we put two new bar screens there. So,
that system is operating much better. Um, we rehabilitated uh three lift four lift stations. I won't go through those, but those are the four lift stations that we've rehabilitated. We did various improvements uh at the North Water Reclamation Facility and have more to come and I'll talk about that on another slide. uh we placed a significant number
of inoperable fire hydrants. If you all remember last year, we had a probably 60 or so fire hydrants that were bagged and out of service. We put most of those with the except with the exception of maybe one or two back into service. Now, I will state that now that we're going back through that program. We're finding
hydrants that don't meet pressure requirements, but those are going to be bigger issues because if you don't meet pressure requirements, that's got to do with your underground infrastructure, not so much with the hydrant itself. So once again, that's another challenge that we have. Um, pipelining throughout the city. Uh,
we that's the program you were talking about earlier, Commissioner Austin. We're continuing to do that along with manhole rehabilitation. >> U Mr. Johnson, >> I don't see Grove View on there. Are we still running the >> Grove View is in the process of it's
being it's in the process the Grove View lift station. It's in the process of being rebuilt right now. It's in construction. >> All right. Um, examples of ongoing plant projects. Um, I mentioned the head works already. We're at 30% design roughly. Uh, clarifier number four, that's a new
project that's in design. That's adding a fourth clarifier. Right now, we have three clarifiers out there. We're adding a fourth so that we can take certain clarifiers out of operation so that we can clean them and rehab them and all of those things cuz right now if you take one down, it's a little bit cumbersome on the operation. Uh, number three is
being completely rebuilt. Right now, I although we don't have a fourth clarifier, we shouldn't have three down, but while it's down, it's one of those things we could have spent uh about $250,000 to do a quick fix. Uh I decided it made more sense to spend 1.2 and completely rehab it and not have to
worry about any of it for about another 20 or 30 years. So, they're in the process of rebuilding Clarifier 3. And then once we get four up, we'll go back and do clarifier two and clarify number one. The goal ultimately is to have pretty brand new plant in the next three to
five years with all of these improvements. The next one we have bioolids recycling and disposal RFP. That is an RFP that we're working with procurement to put out so that we can have a hopefully have a company come in and manage our bioolids program so that we can stop spending six and $700,000
per year taking our bioolids to Shellies. Um, so this program will hopefully not only eliminate that $600 or $700,000 charge that we pay, but it'll hopefully bring us in some revenue, uh, if it's done correctly. And that RFP should be going out, um, the end of this
month or, uh, sometime in August. Um, new ESA generator, uh, that should be coming in August or September. U,, that is one of the things that Dinged us on is the generator and not having it in service. Uh we had a generator that we
were working on getting repaired, but the vendor could not get it repaired soon enough. And to make a very long story short, um I basically told them that we weren't paying for the rental service of the existing generator and the uh automatic transfer switches because we're now paying D or will be
paying D $1,000 per day in fines for their errors over the last 8 to 10 months and they agreed. So, we're saving $40,000 a month on rental fees, which will cover the cost of $1,000 a day once D totals up that bond. And so, we won't in essence, we won't be paying anything
out of the utilities budget to pay that fine. Um, then we have the electrical electrical coordination study, which I mentioned earlier that your Galli is working on, and we should have that next week. Um, then we're converting our lift stations to cellular hydrolink. That'll link up
to our uh SCADA system and allow us the ability, bless you, it'll allow us the ability to see what our lift stations are doing real time, which we don't currently have the capability to do. So, when we get those calls like Grove View is overflowing, we will already have gotten that alert about Grove View. And
so, they're currently in the process of changing all of those to the Hydrolink system. Um, also we're in the process of converting one of our sand filters to cloth filters. This will give us greater operational capacity. The goal is to convert all of them to sand filters and hopefully take our disc filters out of
service. Uh, and yes, I know we just got those disc filters a couple of years ago, but um, they weren't necessarily meant for that operation. So, we're, like I said, we're putting together a plant that will be functional. >> Um, vacuum sewer pump station rehabilitation, as I mentioned, we're in the process of
doing that. Site 10 repumping, that's a probably that's probably about 75% design. That may be one of those projects that we shove uh temporarily until we can get some funding. But the good thing about designing those projects in advance is that when grant opportunities come up, we're ahead of the we're ahead of the curve and we can
submit not only uh a project, but we can we could submit a project that's already designed and ready for construction. Um active flow repair, uh that was something that we had already awarded a contract to, but we decided we we awarded a contract to a vendor. We decided to pull that back uh primarily
because the money that we were going to spend in rehabbing that active flow system, we felt it would be uh better if we found a system that had less moving parts that we could retro. Uh and so we decided to not move forward with that project right now until we can find a
better system that had less moving parts and less u operator involvement. Um main water plant expansion, you all are aware of that. that's related to the 14 dioxane as well as PAS and PAS. And then
um we're rebuilding our belt press. Um and we're pending that's pending the issuance of a purchase order. Once we get that, we'll be rebuilding the belt press. Um I won't necessarily go through all of these, but here's a list of all the projects just for the sake of time. As I mentioned, um here's a list of
ongoing collection and distribution projects that we have. Of course, we have our meter replacement. We have our pipelining, which is continuous manhole rehabilitation. Um installation of meters, which we have about 1,800 um uh meters left. And what we're also
doing is looking at putting in um uh pressure gauges on our on our reclaim system. Often times we get a lot of reports um on weekends and >> you hear from us about [laughter] >> uh I was going to leave that part out, Commissioner. Uh but we get a lot of uh
complaints about reclaimed water uh not having enough pressure and so we're looking at putting in pressure monitors throughout that system so that we can better determine where the problems lie and we can right now the system just has a lot of valves and things throughout the system but there's no way for us to accurately determine where we're having
problems. Um then we have various water main improvements uh just mean a lot of them in Goldsboro. The first few were in Goldboro just mean 11 Goldsboro uh 12th Street. Then we have Pineway, uh Hartwell, um just a lot of projects and
a lot of these projects are water main uh upgrades. So in those areas you may have a 2in main and we're upsizing it to a six or eight inch main to get better water pressure. And then we have various water meter and vault water meter vault projects where we're taking our infrastructure from underground and putting it above ground. uh that's going
to give us greater operational efficiency and then we don't have to worry about vault breaking and things of that nature. Uh here are some summary of some of the grant funds that we've received and that we are receiving. U I'm not going to go through all of them. Actually, I don't want to go through any of them. I just want to make sure that you all see them,
but we're actively uh always seeking grant opportunities. Grant opportunities oftent times are free money. Sometimes there's match uh matching involved. Um but for the most part it's still free money and we use every opportunity that we can to go after those grant dollars.
Um we also have smart covers on our on our on our water man on our sorry on our sewer manholes. Smart meters allow us to determine when we have high flows. So if our gravity system uh were to be uh inundated with INI which is inflow and infiltration from rainwater and we get
our system gets scharged we u have a way of getting alerts through our smart covers and what we do is we move those smart covers as we fix certain areas uh from getting too much inflow uh and infiltration we then can take those smart covers and move them to other areas. Uh and also we have seven rain
gauge installations installed as of September of 2025. Uh here just gives you an idea. This is our our lift station curves and it kind of shows you the cycling on a lift station. Uh since we've uh done uh the the Pine Crest uh area with 138
manholes. You can see the the graph on the left shows how the uh lift station has continuously cycled when we give a rain event. Um the one on the right is after we did a lot of rehabilitation work and you can see that that red line is a spike and then after that there's a there's a normalization. So the INI
projects that we're doing, the lining that we're doing, the manual rehabilitation projects that we're doing are working. Um the significance of that is that reduces the amount of flow that we end up getting to our wastewater plants. Uh when you fix INI. Now, of course, there's a downside because when
you get in, you reduce your concentration, which is good for process, but you don't want the flow either. So it's kind of a tradeoff. um other regulatory updates. Uh this is uh in relation to this is in regards to
BMAP which is um our basin map action plan. Um there's three we're part of uh we're we have three different BMAP areas here in Sanford and the most important part of this is that there's a lot of requirements coming out of the BMAP or out of from DP regarding BMAP or from St. John's water
management district related to BMAPs. Um we have to we have to uh initiate projects that reduce nutrient loading. We talked about that already. Uh we have to upgrade existing wastewater treatment plants within our BMAP area uh that have reclaimed water used within the BMAP
area. Uh and we have to do that by 2035. Uh and then we have to notify existing residents of um we have to existing property owners within the BMAP areas that have septic tanks and whose property is adjacent to existing gravity sewer that they have
365 days to connect to our sewer. So if they're on they're they're in the BAP and they have um a sewer line running in their area and they're currently on septic they'll have 365 days to connect to our sewer system. And the purpose of that is they really want to get people off of 70.
>> So there are 51 of those. >> Excuse me. >> There are 51 of those >> approximately. Yes. >> So moving forward, what are we going to do? We're going to continue on uh continue with ongoing projects. We have a significant number of projects. That was a very small list of the projects
that we have scheduled. Um and I believe that you all received a more more expansive list previously. Uh so we're going to continue with that. We're going to uh develop a master plan for the north waist uh north north wastewater reclamation facility. I know that was requested of of commission at a prior
meeting. Um but it is something that we need to do anyway. And that master plan is going to give us sort of a roadmap to the future as it relates to um our uh capacity and how to move forward with process changes. Uh and then we're going to continue to seek alternative funding sources as I've been mentioning
throughout this presentation. Uh, and that's going to be it's going to include but not be limited to state revolving fund loans, grants, bonds, and any other ways of getting money that we can figure out. And that is all I have. And uh I
apologize for rushing, but I did want to >> Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, members of Commission, obviously, utility operations very intense and I want to appreciate Mr. Johnson for presiding and presenting this information to you. uh we will be getting the PowerPoint presentation to you so you can go over
it yourselves and if you have any questions, please let us know. But it is a very involved system. You hear about it from your residents. It's one of those issues that the city has that affects all of our residents. >> I'm only going to ask one question. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> On reclaimed water,
>> as we know, it's kind of it's a it's a privilege in that not everybody has it. Correct. And there shouldn't be an expectation that everybody has it, but we're continuing to increase the number of people who are on reclaimed water >> to the best of our ability. Yes. Okay. Anytime we can if we can expand our
system, we try to expand it. >> But we also have to make sure that we have the ability to provide that water, which kind of goes back to the active post, the repumping of sight. >> So as a pri so as a priority, we make sure that what we have is working and that the pressure is what it needs to be and just keep doing that. And the hope
is to get to a point once active flow is up and we can repump from site 10, we'll be pumping continuously throughout the day and we won't have any shortages or pressure issues. But until those systems get fixed, then >> y >> Okay. Thanks. >> You're welcome. >> Great presentation. >> Thank you.
>> I just point out next year when a new mayor tries to take credit for fixing the utility system, y'all let him know it was y'all before they got here. [snorts] >> We will let him or her know. >> The other point that I would make, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission is Mr.
Johnson has talked about D a number of times and the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. I have been at meetings with Mr. Johnson and the Florida Department and there's a marked change in how they are treating the city of Sanford based upon their interactions with Mr. Johnson.
>> Well, and I'm glad you brought that up, Mr. Bonapart. I I want it on the record. We are in good standing with them. >> Yes, they they are working with us. I mean, they're getting pressure from EPA. I'll be honest, they're getting pressure from the EPA, and so they're putting pressure on not just us, but everyone
else, but they're still doing their best to work with us. Um, and for example, with the uh headworks, they said they wanted it done in I think it was like six months. I said, "No, I need three years." And they gave us a thousand days because they know, I told them, "We're not just going to line it, we're going to rebuild the entire headworks." And they were gracious and said, "We'll give
you the thousand days." >> So, they are working with us. They have to play tough guy and you know that but they're less tough than they used to be because we are making good efforts. >> All right. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Hey, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, based on the time, I'd like
to say that we will postpone the next presentation on community development block grant so that Sarah has amp ample time to go over the program that she has >> because we are looking forward to that and we don't want to give you short shrift. Okay.
>> Well, unless anyone has anything they >> Oh, sorry. Real quick. Um, Florida has something to do. >> Florida Legal Cities is having their conference and they want the city to designate a voting delegate to the conference. >> Is anybody going?
>> I am. >> You're the delegate. >> There we go. >> I'll happily [laughter] >> I I Captain. And just finally, did the commission finalize about the painting of the chambers? >> Commissioner Britain is supposed to pick
a color. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Real quick, we we do need to talk about board. >> We do need to appoint some people.
>> PNZ couldn't even meet last week. >> Um, so what we got Do we have people to review? >> We can go back over the applications that we currently have, but if y'all
have any >> recommendations, suggestions that y'all would like to submit, we're the clerk's office is welcome to receive them. Um, but we do not have any new applicants in multitude of months. Should we
advertise and have >> maybe >> we can certainly work with our communications department and put that out through social media that there are available >> meeting last week. Now we have one in August. If we can't have one in August, we have some serious issues. >> So, let's look at what we have now to
get one. >> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I just want to also add to that that I'm working with the clerk's office to do a more thorough job of keeping track of absenteeism. Okay, >> because that was truly the issue for the
PNZ meeting. In the uh our resolutions, we talk about keeping track of people who are not attending meetings and giving the mayor and the commission the opportunity to make decisions based upon poor absenteeism. And that's something that I' I'd like to see and it's
necessary because it's causing business not to be tended to. And the PNZ meeting was in fact rescheduled for the purpose of making sure that people were going to be that that board was going to have a full quorum and then it was not. >> How many were we short at the last meeting? >> One.
>> Okay. Um can we get >> We have two openings. Right. >> Right. So it's a twofold issue. One appointment and then two dealing with the issue of absenteeism. >> Well, can you send us current applications
by next week? And then maybe we can find one of those that we know of that we've already interviewed and see if we can at least make one appointment by the next meeting. >> Yeah. Well, then we'll have to we should advertise for more.
>> I think we should also advertise. >> Okay. So, at least maybe get one more member on there before the August meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And I wonder if we need to have the discussion of having multiple Alternate.
>> Alternate. >> Perhaps >> you we have to or you want to? >> We have to. >> Yeah, >> they already have. >> We're just trying to >> Well, this isn't the first time they've had this problem. So, >> right.
>> Yeah. If we're going to advertise now, it's very contingency. >> Okay. >> I'll go with the communications department, see about putting out something before the end of the week, hopefully. Okay. But let's get the applications that we already have and because we wouldn't be able to necessarily interview next time, but
>> we can at least look at what we have and see there's somebody. >> So, it's my opinion we're going to have to we're just going to have to make appointments based on application next meeting. We we can't we cannot continue to have >> I'm suggesting we appoint at least one
at the next meeting. >> Okay. Okay. >> If we have people if we have somebody and our applicant pulls it. Yeah. >> Or if somebody, you know, applies that we know. Okay. All right. Thanks for bringing that up. Anything else? >> Okay.
>> All right. We're darn it. >> Yeah, >> I think we just saw it. Part: 2
Heat. Heat. [music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Thank you. [music] [music] [music] >> [music]
[music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] [music] Heat. [music] [music] Heat. >> [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music]
>> [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> Heat. [music] Hey. Hey. Hey.
Heat. Heat. N. [music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] Heat. [music] Heat.
[music] >> [music] >> talking about fire assessments. >> I totally agree. >> All right. We will go ahead and call to order the meeting of the Sanford City Commission for Monday, July 13, 2026. First order of business is our
legislative prayer which will be led by Dr. Joel Hunter of the Central Florida Pledge. Please stand. Lord, we ask for your spirit to be among us tonight so that what we do may be of
benefit to all people. Give us wisdom that is beyond our own and give us charity and compassion so that this community can become a beloved community.
We pray this in your name. Amen. >> Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> Thank you, Dr. >> Thank you for short and sweet. >> Then we will call Dr. Hunter back up for a presentation on this particular pledge. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, we're very glad to have Dr. Hunter and Gal Kade here. They're going
to share with us information about the pledge. The mayor and I attended a Sanford Chamber meeting and they came and they made a presentation. We thought it'd be good for them to have it for the entire chamber. So, Dr. Hunter, >> thank you, Mr. Bart. We have a uh an
initial video to show you and then we'll then I'll speak for a few minutes and then our vice president will follow up with details. >> [music] >> Somebody broke it. >> [music] >> dance. [laughter] >> Oh, I would love to.
>> That may be better. [laughter] >> Get out your phone. That's right. Don't offer if you're not going to. [laughter] >> You might be more famous than you think if that happens. [laughter] change.
>> I tell you what, we can just deal with slides. Okay. I want to respect your time. And >> will you also do your best impression of Alan Ginsburg? [laughter] >> That guy is awesome. He's got the greatest sense of humor. Do you know Allan?
>> Oh, not personally. No. >> Oh my god. 88 years old. I can I cannot keep [music] over the guy. And he's got hilarious. He is he's not satisfied until [music] >> We're living in a time >> when disagreement feels like a [music] breaking point. If you disagree, you're
expected to pick a side or walk away. [music] That's not how communities are built. What we're seeing [music] this year is something different. We've seen people choose to care even when agreement [music] wasn't there. We've seen leaders
from different faiths stay at the table, not [music] to convince one another, but to stand together for the sake of others. We've seen educators create a space for hard conversations, choosing dialogue [music] instead of
division. We've seen students come together [music] across difference, learning that showing up matters. We've seen curiosity replace fear. Presence replace persuasion. We've seen [music] people show up when
it mattered most. This is what happens when people decide not to walk away. [music] If you're not ready to agree, that's okay. You don't have to agree to care. Care keeps the door open.
Care keeps us human. [music] Care keeps us connected. just care. [music] So basically [snorts] pledge is an effort to change the culture of our region. It came into
existence uh upon the attacks in Israel in 2023 from the uh terrorist group and then the resulting devastating war that followed. And what we saw in Central Florida was a rise in and incidents of anti-semitism,
corresponding rise uh in incidents of Islamophobia. Of course, we've always had a problem with racism. there were incidents of anti- homophobia and and so basically we got about 150 uh of the leaders of
central Florida together. This is seminal orange and oyola counties were a hyper local focus not trying to change the country not trying to solve the problems in the world. not even trying to solve the problems of the state, but this is about our neighbors and this is
a movement of neighbors and how we treat our neighbors. And so basically out of that gathering um there came a pledge uh of basically four commitments. I will
treat everyone with respect especially those with whom I disagree. Um I will um not increase the u division
uh by acts uh or words that are inflammatory. So we we we bridle our tongue. The third one is I will um report incidents of hate. And the fourth is I will educate myself about all forms
of discrimination so that I can be better at this. Um so let me let me tell you what we planned on just a momentary couple years of let's make sure this doesn't happen in our community and it was working. I mean
we've got this huge student organization u demonstrations that were going on in the rest of the country weren't going on here. CNN sent down a team to University of Central Florida because they heard there was going to be a riot there. Um, but the pledge uh was signed on by the
student government unanimously there and so the the the Jewish students were talking to the Palestinian students and there was no demonstration. Uh there was conversation and dialogue and that's the kind of that's the kind of culture we
want to create. What has surprised us is it what started out as a let's minimize the damage movement uh turned into well if we can do that let's work together to solve problems regionally that we haven't been able to solve so far. Um so
we went from a negate the negative to let's turn into the positive. Well another surprise happened. We started getting organizations that wanted to sign on and and I mean like 800 pound gorilla organizations
um and you can you can see some of them them up there. Of course you're interested in cities. So there's city of Orlando, city of Ovido um and and um um the seminal um leadership uh group so on
so forth. So 75 organizations, Stanford regional, Chamber of Commerce. Um, so so basically people are saying this, I know in our country right now we have a huge problem with polarization and
division and name calling and so on and so forth. As a matter of fact, show that next slide. >> [clears throat] >> This according to a survey, national survey in February of this year, so this is just a few months old, 78% of Americans are dissatisfied with how we
treat each other. [clears throat] 77% believe it's getting worse. And 74% report feeling exhausted by the level of division in our society. And you might translate that into division in your friendships, in your in your places of
worship, in your families around the Thanksgiving table. Um, and 76% of employees witnessed workplace incivility in the past month. And so we know we have a cultural problem, but um, what we also know is that it's solvable if we
make a personal commitment. I'm not going to be a part of the problem. I'm going to be a part of the solution. And I can do that no matter how I feel by treating someone with respect, no matter who they are or what they believe. This
isn't about kumbaya stuff. Let's get everybody to to agree. This makes it safe to disagree. That's how our country was built, by the way. It was built on disagreements and that's how we got better because we heard the other side and we could still work together. And so
at this 250 year uh anniversary, it it seems like this would be a good time to make commitments as groups. Um and and Sanford, I can't I love Sanford. Sanford is such a great city and it's it's kind
of becoming the deal, you know? I mean, everybody's kind of thinking, oh man, Sanford, this is not just a quaint little historic place anymore. uh this is a really a center of of culture and arts and and commerce and so on and so forth. So Stanford becomes more and more
important and can set more and more of the tone and an example. Um and I and I know many of you on this commission, this is your heart already. I'm preaching to the choir here. Uh forgive the religious reference. Uh um you
already know this. You already believe this. But if we can declare it officially, this is the kind of community we want to build, we're going to be better off for it. I'm going to ask RK to come up and give you just some of the some of the tools we have to to
build this kind of community. >> Thank you, Joel, and and uh thank you to the mayor and the commissioners for letting us uh join you this evening and all the citizens assembled here. Um, my role is to work with Joel and the team
at the Central Florida Pledge, not to build out a giant organization. We're actually lean and mean, but to help network organizations and providers of [snorts] content training, uh, things
that'll help us achieve this goal of dialogue across disagreement, uh, in a constructive way. Uh in your packet you'll see uh our values and the I wills and the Central Florida Business Network um outline.
Few things I wanted to just mention to all of you for your awareness and uh the citizens here and the residents. Um first of all, we have an enormous youth arm and in November 14th we're having a thousand student [clears throat] free conference. Send us your student
leaders. I know uh city of Sanford has a a student council so to speak. I met several of them at Sanford Speaks. They were very impressive young people from various schools. Um and this is something that through Rosen Hotels and the pledge and other sponsors that we
are bringing free into the community because really our student leaders are our future. We have several partner organizations like I mentioned. I know when you're a busy person serving in government or serving in corporate America like I did,
you don't have time to do the networking and the research. And we seek to be that partner for you. We have vetted several local and national organizations, some of which you know, and one of those we've just entered a really exciting partnership with, and that is the
dignity index. The dignity index commissioners and mayor, you'll find that on the back of this little card, is an eight-point barometer scale in how we speak. Second point of the pledge is I will refrain from inflammatory dialogue.
I always say that's fine until I'm on I4 and then it all goes out the window. Uh or a couple other moments that I care not to mention. So we will be uh once organizations that join our our team our network uh we will be offering
opportunities to bring the dignity index training with you know certified facilitators into workplaces, churches, government organizations, neighborhood organizations. So that's coming. And we also have uh Dr. Joel's next book, The
Pledges Approach to Faith and Politics. We know we're going into electoral uh season now. That'll be interesting. And u locally and across our country and uh we will be hosting several sessions um
live and zoom in uh for people to really explore how do I keep my faith intact? How do I keep my friendships intact and still uh participate in the political uh situation that's gotten pretty hot. Um so those are a few things that we have
going on. um right now. So we in invite you to to join us and take the next step. The pledge is for individuals as well as organizations and I thank you uh Norton for the invitation and art for the invitation here to share the pledge
and Joel and I will take any questions or followup that you uh you have. >> Hi, thanks for the wonderful presentation. I have a couple of questions. Um, one I want to hear more about this um,
industrial complex that was mentioned on one of your slides. >> Yeah, >> there is a um, this was put out by um, the dignity index um, >> which I think we've seen from the peace
and just institute. It's very similar to that if not the same thing they use. This this is um yeah this basically the peace and justice institute speaks more of personal transformation. This is for groups. >> Okay. uh we have the capability for
example one of the things you saw in that um in that video was when a group of fundamentalist Christians interrupted uh a local congregation because they were they it was a gay congregation uh
and they interrupted their public worship service said this is a den of Satan and so on and so forth. The next Sunday, we had 70 people from the community, leaders from the community, all faiths, some no faith, but we were there as neighbors saying, "If you're
going to attack anybody, uh, any group, you're going to have to come through us." So, that's not something PJI can do. That's something that we can do. We can mobilize people to actually stand with our neighbors who are being attacked for who they are and what they
believe. Um but beyond that, um when we get sectors working together, I was the chairman of the Central Florida Commission on Homelessness for a while and and we had wonderful people on that committee, but we didn't move the needle because
a problem that big takes an entire region, every sector working. >> It still does. I'm on that committee. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so you know that and and and so what what Sanford does if Sanford will sign on to this, it becomes a part
of a larger network um and and um of resources and and thinking and relationships so that problems can be solved that couldn't just be solved by affinity groups or interested people.
>> Anybody else? Any other questions? >> No, sir. Um not a question, but I' I've followed you for a long time. I used to attend your church. Um, >> you look familiar. >> Yeah, I I'm I'm extremely uh proud to have been a member
of your church and see what you've done and your retirement. >> Uh you're making a difference in this community and in Central Florida. And I've been curious for a while why we haven't heard from you. So, I'm glad you're finally here. Uh and and if
If I have anything to do with this, I would like to see this commission as a whole >> uh make the pledge. >> Thank you. >> And if they don't, then then I am I am 100% on board. >> Thank you, Patrick. I appreciate that. And I'm I'm now I'm I'm still in the
pastor. I'm pastor of community benefit. That's what I do these days. This is what I do. Um, and so, um, but I but I love the idea and Sanford is so I'm sorry I'm taking too long here, but I Sanford is so suited for this, uh,
because um, not only are you an example of community that um has um that prizes diversity and cooperation um, for the sake of neighbors. Uh, but
you've you've you're you're doing well to get past some of the things that are just tearing the rest of the cultures apart, rest of the communities apart. I was just I I I had to work this in. President Obama asked me to come and do the invocation
at his at the dedication of his uh um presidential center a couple a few weeks ago. And so I'm there with these with these all these past presidents, you know, and of course I'd worked with President Bush as well with his faith-based initiatives and and uh but
I'm I'm up there praying and I'm thinking 250 years, 250 years ago, we did not rely on a strong federal government. We did not rely on a strong state government. It was communities
that built this country. It was neighbors who worked with neighbors that built this country and I'm just praying for that for the next 250 years and that's part of what we're trying to do. >> Thank you. >> That's a good goal.
>> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And I would say >> I I did sign the pledge as mayor when it first first came out and to be perfectly honest, I sort of forgot about it after I did it. So [laughter] I'm I'm glad you're back and I'm glad to see how far this is coming. But I I would like for the city to to sign on as a a city
partner. And I'm not sure what the the process is. I think there's a >> we'll determine the process and and follow up with you. >> All right. Good. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. [laughter] >> I am not moving. Here we go. Okay. So
see um regarding speaking before the com commission to facilitate public input. If you plan to speak on an item, please complete the yellow citizens input form that you'll find in the rear and leave it there to be brought forward for us. The public will be given opportunity to speak on any item before the city
commission during a regular meeting. Uh before the consent agenda, I will check to see if anyone wish to speak to any item during public hearings. Um there is always a opportunity for the publics to speak before a motion is made. During regular items, if you have not completed the yellow form but want to speak on an item, if you would raise your hand when
we get to that item, you'll be recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item. Except a person representing an organization and presenting its views during an equation official hearing. Um, they will be allowed five minutes. Citizen participation takes place after public hearings and individuals may
address the commission on any topic not on the agenda. There's a five-minute time limit for citizen comments. Okay. So that'll bring us to the minutes of um the 20 June 2026 20 June 22nd 2026
regular meeting and work session >> move to approve >> second any discussion all in favor any opposely is there anyone in the audience that wish to speak on any item in the consent agenda
then I'll bring that to commission for action consent A through M unless somebody wants to pull something. >> I want to pull item G, Mr. Mayor. >> G F. >> Okay. So, A through F and H through M. Is
there a motion on those? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion a second. All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? That's unanimously. Item G. Commissioner Brit. >> Um, I have a question, couple of questions for Mr. Johnson. You're not on trial. Just just some
clarification. >> Oh, no worries. >> Okay. Is this the same thing that we were talking about in 2025? Is this the same item that was coming from FD that said that we had to pay fines? >> Um, a lot of it is related to some of the things that in 2025. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Is is this something new or
something? >> No, it's a Well, so it's a continuation of of years past along with a few new items that they found in 2025. >> Okay. Now, when I was looking at the uh compliance evaluation, like it I don't
know if you're able to follow me, but like item A and B, it says like the respondent corrected a couple of these things, but when I look at some other ones, it doesn't show that it's corrected. So, like item E says, the lining of the master lift station was failing at the time of the inspection.
Has that been corrected? >> No, ma'am. So, if you look at it, I didn't pull it. I wasn't able to find it yet, but if you go down, there's a section that says ordered, and that's where the the outstanding items are located. So, um if it doesn't have an update on the section that you looked at, it got carried over to the ordered
section. >> Okay. And we have plans to correct those. >> Yes. Well, some of the items that they mentioned such as the um and and I mentioned this in the presentation that I did earlier um the master lift station lining in lie of lining the lift station. We already are in the process of designing uh plans to do a complete
rebuild on all of the headwork system. >> Okay? >> Because we could reline the lift station and it'll last for a little while, but it doesn't fix all of the other problems associated with it. >> So, we rather take the time to do a full rehab uh versus just a minor repair. >> Okay. And where I I guess I'll talk to
you after the meeting, but I just want to know exactly where is that list of you saying the items that you still need to work on. >> Okay. And then I'm looking because the last time we we talked about this, I was saying it was reported that it was a million gallons a day going into the St. John's River and you said no
commissioner, it's not. But I'm looking here on the consent order and it does say that it was a million gallons per day >> for all of the illicit discharges. We got fined for that previously. Um, we're not currently illicitly or uh illicitly
discharging. >> Okay. We'll have further discussion. Well, Mr. Bonapart will have further discussion about that. And then the direct payment for $181,000. Is that the total amount of fines or that's what we're just asking for today? >> That is the total amount of the fines as they stand right now. There are So, if
you look under the generator item, for example, it's a $1,000 a day fine. But as I mentioned in my presentation earlier because we had gone back and forth with that particular vendor to repair the existing generator and they failed to uh meet the deadlines. Um so the first time they ordered an
aftermarket part which they should have done the repair and then they got to a point after losing four or five months. They then came back and said well we'll have to repair the barrel. They did that before delivering it to us uh before uh Memorial Day. They found out they put it under load to test it and it failed. So,
I sent an email out to them and said that we're incurring $1,000 a day fine from D and we're not eating that. You guys are going to incur that. And so, they're waving the fees on the rental generator and the automatic transfer switches to offset the cost of that $1,000 a day fine that we're going to get from D.
>> So, what we're paying today is the total amount, but we will be getting another one more than likely for the generator, but that won't come from our budget. That will be from um not paying the contractor for the rental generator that we currently have. Approximately how much is that? >> That's 40 what we're getting from the contractor. We're paying about $40,000 a
month to rent it. They're waving the fees for the next Well, I think that came about about a month ago. So for the next two Well, that month and then the next two months, so three months worth of waivers. And so that'll cover that $1,000 a day fine from D. >> Okay. And who's taking Mr. Cassella
place? Is that Mike Falcon? >> Mike Falcon. Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you, sir. That's it from >> And I think when um Mr. Mr. Modart is going to send out the PowerPoint from the work session which lists all of the items um that are underway with thank you sir um
>> the utilities department which I think will make it clear. Okay. So do we have a motion on G? >> Move to approve item G. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I passed. Okay. brings us to public hearings. First reading ordinance 2026
4860. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, annexing by voluntary petition certain real properties. Tax identification numbers 281930 503 40010619305 AC 4096
C 1619305 A40086F and 1619305 A 40096D which is generally addressed as 100 Crosswood Loop located contiguous to the city of Sanford together with associated
right of way in accordance with the voluntary annexation provision. of section 171.044 Florida statute redefining the boundaries of the city of Sanford to include said property amending the boundaries of the city in accordance with the provisions of section 166.031
031 Florida statutes. Providing for findings, providing for conditions, directing the city clerk to record the ordinance with the clerk of the circuit court, with the chief administrative officer of Semino County, and with the department of state, providing for legal description and a map, and providing for
incorporation of that exhibit, repealing all ordinances in conflict here, providing for severability, providing for non-codification, and the taking of administrative actions, and providing for an effective date. Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff have reviewed the request for annexation
and found the request to meet the criteria set forth in the Florida statutes. The property's boundaries are contiguous to the city's boundaries and are reasonably compact. It is therefore city staff recommendation. City commission approved the first reading of ordinance number 4860 to annex 3.02 plus
or minus acres located at East State Road 46 and Nusis Avenue into the city of Sanford as legally described. Miss Sensson, are you doing a combined um presentation? >> I am. >> Okay. >> Try to make them as short as possible.
So, I may miss things. We may have questions later, but I hear that I use a lot of words. So, don't forward. >> Okay. >> I think you need a mic. >> Say pull the mic. >> And um just to clarify for the audience, there will be three votes on this item.
The first is the annexation, the second is the future land use, and the third is the actual reasonzoning. Um staff will do a presentation on all of those at one time, but we will do treat it as three separate votes. Make sense?
>> Okay. So, Royal Palms at Crosswood Loop located 100 Crosswood Loop has three presentations before you, three requests before you, an annexation, a compens. So, the annexation overview, it's
located on the northeast side of State Road 46 and Monroe Road, just east of some existing development. There's four parcels totaling about 3 acres of a total 22 acre property. They are requesting annexation voluntarily under
Florida statutes. It's contiguous, compact, does not create an enclave, and staff recommends approval of these additional parcels to be on it. And there is a comprehensive plan amendment. The map is both in your packet and on the screen. The subject
parcel is the same parcel looking through MX. There is a future lane use of HIPP which is high-intensity plan development target industry in Seminal County and a future lane use of Westside Industry and Commerce which is what they're seeking in the city. They
incorporate parcels into the future land use to totally incorporate into the 22 acre site. They're going to expand the PD to amend it for mixeduse development. The cap was completed on August 18th of last year and the comp plan amendment
becomes effective only after the annexation ordinance and the complaint amendment ordinance are adopted and it has consistency with the comp plan supports the WIC mixed use pattern of both commercial and multif family. It meets objectives for the future l use
elements in 1.1 public facilities have been found to be available and sufficient to support the request. The approval would assign the westside industry and commerce future land use to enable the PD zoning and integration into the city's future land use map. It aligns with all the other future land use goals, orderly land use
distribution, complies with 1.12.1, the Westside Industry development parameters. staff recommends approval and the planning and zoning commission also recommended approval of the comprehensive plan amendment on June 4th, 2026.
Now the plan development the overview is the overall site not the two that are being not the few parcels that are being annexed and land used but this is the overall total. It has 360 multif family units, six buildings, four stories, max height of
70 ft, and three commercial, I'm sorry, two commercial out parcels with a maximum of 41,000 square ft. Net usable PV area um is 19.91 acres for the calculations because there are 2.31 acres of
wetlands. So what that basically does is it gives them a maximum intensity and density on the 19.91 because our calculations are based on buildable land. So they've provided for 360 multif family units. They have utilized some
transferring of development within the PD. So the commercial parcels are slightly less on their allocation and the multif family has a little bit heavier. The applicant is Eric Ro and the CAP as noted was completed on August. [clears throat]
In your packet is a very long list of development standards and deviations um notes about the plan and probably easier to either read on the screen before you or your packet in front of you, but I put them on the screen so you could see what you're looking for in your plan.
The PD master plan, this is a overall of what the PD proposes. You can see the multiple buildings, the large area of storm water in the middle and the out parcels on the front along State Road 46. Um
the project information is 20 dwelling units per acre, 360 units as noted. The amenities include things like a clubhouse, fitness center, a pool, park, walking area, car, EV charging. It also
has three out parcels. Oh, there are the three the third one. Okay, the three out parcels along 46. The max intensity of a total of 41,000 square feet and change allowing uses within the GC2 with restrictions which are noted in your staff report. And then just note that
the storm water element is a rather large element due to now nutrient loading requiring enlarged storm water facilities. So that causes the project to be slightly more the larger buildings more con compact more units per building which is one of the reasons why they have some of the
deviations that they've asked for within our code. >> So the buffers and setbacks >> can I ask a quick question about that? Are those new storm water standards >> that are requiring that? >> I believe that there were even new ones. Yes. Just recently passed. They've been getting greater and greater because even
when we did the um the ones across the street from Sunrail, they had increased ones at that time and now even more stringent loading requirements are being imposed. So we have had to make modifications on some of our designs
just to make sure that we meet all of those stormwater requirements as we go through the process. So in general the state requirements >> the river storm water treatment are increasing as time goes by. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So we've been trying to use them as
amenities, trying to make sure they have fountains paths around them, trails, dog walks, whatever it is that we can do to make those more amenitized and not just square square ponds. >> Thank you. >> So um but as you'll see it's in the
master plan. It's got a nice not square shape. It's got, you know, um, sort of goes in between the the buildings and whatnot. So, I guess some water behind it is the pond up at the top. So, um,
the single family adjacent, uh, the buffer was modified from 120 down to 47 ft and then a 50ft buffer was down to 10 ft. >> But there were two there's two residences and there appears to be no
objection on that. And then internal commercial residential buffers have been removed between the own projects. So there's no real buffers between the commercial that's on 46 and the project itself, but that's internal to the same PD. So there's no objection there. Um
the open space required is 50% but they're providing 30%. The parking stalls are supposed to be 10 by 20 but standards of spaces have been 9 by 18 in more recent approvals. The ratio is 2.0 to 1.8. 8 which is consistent with a lot
of our recent approvals actually slightly higher. We've ranged anywhere from 1.5 to 1.8. So this is on the higher end of the reduction to the parking and multif family. The landscape islands went from 400 square ft to 250 square ft. The architecture they don't
have a second story setback. There is a fourstory height of 70 ft allowed which is consistent with some of our more recent developments. um the interior open air corridors as they have similarly in their um most recent development which is North Haven
which you guys may be familiar with at this point. And then the mechanical screening via landscaping units per building, our code says eight. These buildings are going to have 60. And then the garage or carport coverage is at 20% versus the 50% that our code requires.
But that's also generally consistent. We've been getting 20 to 30% of covered parking areas within our development. >> Ala, before you move on, you're saying that there's no objections. No objections from who? Staff. >> The two residences. So, as far as we know, the two residences have no
objection. >> They stated that at the CAP meeting. Did they put that in writing? >> They invited about 75 people to the CAP meeting and only one person showed up. >> That that doesn't mean that that they
don't object. Did they did the the two did we get something in writing that says that they don't object >> or just because they didn't show up that means that they don't object? >> Well, we have not heard any objections. I do not know that there are no objections, but we have not heard any objection. >> Okay, let's clarify that. Okay. All
right. Thank you. Um so staff analysis as noted before the future lenient consistency mixed use highdensity residential commercial frontage supports employment centers along 46 enhanced landscaping um along the western single family
boundary even though the buffers and stepbacks have been reduced. We're enhancing the landscaping to ensure coverage um the type two heads plus the fencing along the northern residential boundary. the conditions in your staff report. There are a number of them. So, I'm not going through all of them. There
are 21. There are a couple of the that you know, everything from our normal three years extension, the GCP uses with restrictions and some prohibitions, the decorative fountain as normal, cross access between the parcels. Um, they will be providing EV charging landscape
along the county ditch requires some timing to get that in. And then um the last two the planning and zoning commission had placed a condition upon after their public hearing upon the project. They wanted to state that if
possible work with staff to the best of the applicant's ability to determine the feasibility of a potential secondary access to narcissist avenue at some point in the future after design andor narcissist being brought up to code. They don't necessarily want anyone
driving onto narcissist in its current state, but they wanted to leave the door open and put the condition in there. There's nothing concrete about the statement other than the applicant can work with staff to try to make that a possibility in the future. Um, I believe the applicant is going to ask to have
that not incorporated, but that's in their presentation. And then there's a shared parking statement in your packet about the commercial and the residential. They were going to do some creative shared parking between. And um there's a statement in there that they
want removed as well, but staff would prefer not to remove the statement and just make it so that it is um the words only as needed. Only if needed. So during the engineering and design process, the condition is
determined to be required and sub as the subdivision plans are approved. So as for the feasibility of narcissist, there's not really a harm in leaving the statement in there as long as it's just an open statement. And as for the shared parking covenant, we feel like taking it
out may damage it in the future if we do run into a problem that it's not in the packet that requires. So if we can add a statement just stating that it's not required unless needed and then um staff recommends approval subject to be
conditions within your staff report. >> Uh according to what I saw it was not unanimous. There was one planning and zoning member who did not recommend approving it. Um,
>> Commissioner Campa. >> Oh, Nikki. Yeah, she did she did um I believe it was based on a consistency. >> It's based on future land use 1.1 1.1.5 and
>> yeah, that was on the future land use amendment. >> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. >> That was on the future land use amendment >> which we have to do that one. So I'm not really sure like that's what it comes in as from county to city. So it was but we
did notice. >> Okay. >> So um but otherwise the applicant does have a presentation. >> Okay. Go back to >> take too long >> what you said about shared parking. >> Okay. So if you look at your master plan there is this section in the front where the al parcels are
>> and then there's the row that sits between that and the building of apartments. there was going to be some creative shared parking and it's in your staff report how it's worded. Um the minimum maintaining of 1.8 spaces
and then there would be a covenant prior to plat reporting for that shared parking agreement in a legal form acceptable to the city attorney I think is what it was. So,
um I think it's 16. >> It is 16. >> Yeah, 16. So, the planning and zoning commission, there was one set of wording. It went through the public hearing and then there was some additional wording. So the conditions stated that the city administrative
officials could do up to 50% with the parking study and that a binding covenant in a form approved by the city attorney for shared parking between the commercial and the residential parcels of the duty shall be reported with or prior to final flat. So I believe they're going to ask to have that
removed and I'll let them do their presentation and explain. But if we want to add just a statement that says if determined to be required or something along those lines, I'm not sure the harm in keeping it there. So your intent is that there's some
documented agreement that that is shared parking between the residential and the commercial. >> Only if the parking counts don't work out, okay, >> when they do the final engineering, if they can make it work, that's great. But I don't want to put any restrictions on
the plan that keep it from working. >> Okay. >> So, if we remove it and then we don't have this agreement, I don't want to end up back before the commission to determine how to deal with the agreement. >> Okay. >> Eileen, I got a question for you. A a couple actually cuz well, it's a lot of
deviations in here, but I'm going to try to stick to annexation because that's what we going to be talking about first. But my question is here. I'm seeing a lot of um verbiage. You know, it talks about the city gaining the tax revenue and all of that, but I'm concerned about what this
high intensity does to for the future of Sanford in our water and the water demand, the sewer capacity. If I'm only looking at this right here, help me >> just the annex station because well, basic, let's rewind it. What's the
purpose of annexing from the county to the city? Break that down for me. Even though I know. >> Okay. Well, it is within our city service area. So, we will provide services to the property, both water and sewer. >> We have a resolution on file that says
any property obtaining water and sewer from the city will annex into the city. >> Okay. Now, are we prepared for that though with with this being high intensity and I'm trying not to bring up how many homes and all of that because we're only talking about annexation, but this much are we prepared for that with
the the water demand and sewer demand. Do do we have the capacity >> at the annexation level non-use like no committed anything and the annexation only >> we have the ability to annex this? We have services available. It's not creating an enclave and it meets the
statute requirements. >> Solely looking at the annexation, we have the ability. It's within our planning area to do so and we meet state statutes to do so. >> We meet state statutes. Okay. I'm going to come back to that,
but I just wanted it on record though. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other questions for staff at this point? Okay. Does the applicant want to do their presentation now? [clears throat] >> Okay. But before you get started, I was just
thinking that I should have sworn Eileen first because she did the ane I mean the TV part, right? >> Okay. So, I'm gonna have to back up. You're gonna have to give your whole presentation again. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, >> talk fast.
>> For real. No, he's >> I'm just kidding. >> Right. >> Okay. >> You're going to make her cry. >> I went as quick as >> We're going to swear you in pronoun noon tunk. >> No, I was using Latin terms there. >> Okay. And so this will apply to the PD
reszoning of this item, but it will also apply to the North Park PD. Um so when an agenda item involves a quasi judicial process, commissioners must disclose all exparte communications including the name and communicator and
the time place and substance of the communication room communications, commissioners investigation, site visits and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made a part of the record. Persons who have opinions contrary to those expressed in an exparte communication may refute or respond to the communication at the
hearing when they make their presentation in Gazide process. Parties to the proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have legal standing to appeal the decision and also request to be recognized as a party. Parties are subject to cross-examination and must give their
testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party of the proceedings to be recognized and provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not um required to become me uh parties and are not subject to cross-examination and are not sworn in
as evidentary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide facts relevant to the application will be considered in the decision. Qualifications the city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided to the city commission must be competent material and substantial under Florida
law. A guide to quazi judicial proceedings has been published on the city's website and copies are available at the rear of the chambers. So, if anyone who is going to um speak as a party on the annexation for this item or
the North Park PD, if you would please stand. >> What? >> PD for this. >> Right. The PD for this and the North Park PD. [clears throat] Those are the two items. And if you would raise your right hand and state your name as we'll go across
the room this way. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Testimony that she provided was given.
>> Okay. Eileen. Um, does that apply to the testimony you already provided? >> It does. >> Thank you. All right. Sorry about that. Right. Thank you, mayor and commissioners. Good evening. My name is Eric Raj with Inspire Placemaking. Here
to cover item number seven, which um Miss Inson did a really good job framing uh the item. So, I'll uh likely hit the high points and add some color commentary uh but not get into the details on everything that she already covered. Um, so I'll I'll run through
the applicant team, uh, the context for the request, uh, the three requests that were already outlined on the, uh, staff presentation. I'll speak to our renderings and show some images of what we're proposing, uh, talk about the project impacts, and then I'll wrap up with a quick summary. Uh, so the
applicant here is Royal Palm Companies. Um, you know, we're you may be familiar with them. They're the developer of the North Haven project immediately to the south of this property. uh was founded in 1978 and they've been uh active for over 40 years. Uh they've developed over
10,000 units of high-end commercial hospitality uh exceeding over $5 billion in value. So there is a proven track record. You know, all of us are on the applicant team that was here before you a year or so ago on North Haven. Uh same engineer, same developer, same attorney.
Um and we made a lot of promises and we're here. Um, and hopefully uh you feel like we kept those promises with the product that's out there today. Uh, here are some images of North Haven if you haven't been out there. Uh, really top class uh, multifamily product
with state-of-the-art fitness center, clubhouse, EV charging stations, resort style pool, and those types of amenities. Finishes in the units are very nice as well. >> Question. >> Can I say something real quick? since you're talking about North Haven.
It is the finest project completed I've seen in my 10 years on this commission and I applaud you and your team and I did hear early on about this project uh in the infancy stages. I haven't spoken with them
lately, but North Haven is is I I beg my wife all the time, can we just move there? It it is fantastic. >> Thank you very much for saying that. I'm sure the team really enjoys hearing that feedback as well. >> Technical question. When I have seen it spelled, there was two H's.
>> There two H. >> Yeah, >> that's on me. So, that's on me. So, >> kind of like our uh our our thing earlier. Gage was spelled wrong. I was like, oh >> yeah, >> that'll be corrected before the second reading. So, um [laughter]
so I appreciate all that feedback. our our thought process on this one is it needs to be at that level or better um for for this current project. Uh so as Eileen mentioned 22.22 acres in size, it's an aggregation of a a couple different parcels. We do have a little
bit of wetlands on the site. Um and we've got the existing um wick flu in the city and the hip flu in the county. So those are the more intense land use classifications. We've got PD >> zoning in the city today. There was a
previous approval for this site um back in 2018 called the Seminal Business Park. So, this is the kind of centerpiece of of our property. Uh there's currently approved 104,500 ft of warehousing. It's got a 10-ft set back from that residential on the
western property line. Uh we feel like our project's an improvement from from that approval. Uh so overall uh as mentioned we're looking for 360 multif family units and 41,600 ft of commercial. Uh the three applications
required to meet that goal are the annexation, the smallcale amendment and then the uh resoning for the PUD. Um straightforward annexation 3.02 acres were contiguous uh to the uh city to the
east. Um, and we're proposing to bring that into the city. Uh, the future land use map designation, I know it was just brought up um about what you can potentially do within the county. This is a a highintensity plan development targeted industry
designation today. So, it allows for up to 50 dwelling units per acre and a 1.5 F. So, um, we're proposing far less than that. So by right in the county, uh this could be developed at a higher intensity than what we're otherwise proposing
under our application. >> I like when they see that >> um we're proposing the the 20 dwelling units and a.5 F consistent with the city's wick standards. Um and we likely won't even hit the 0.5 F. Uh but this would be considered a reduction from the
intensity permitted within the county. This is just the map. As you can see, the wick is the designation that's um most comparable in immediately in this vicinity uh within the city. Um the staff report had a really good
section on all the compatibility and u consistency with the comp plan policies. We've highlighted a few of those. Uh so um we do agree with staff's recommendation. This is consistent with comp plan compatible with the surrounding area. uh the existing zoning
as I mentioned you have that PD kind of running through the middle of the site the eastern portion of the site uh got a zoning and then there's an R1A property that's the property that we're annexing uh into the to the city and proposed it
would all just be under one new PD um this is our site plan and I can step you through it a little bit we do have access points on state road 46 uh two proposed access points on 46 and then we've got cross access uh to the
multifamily uh to the commercial uh properties to the west. It's a long list of um community highlights and apartment highlights. If you've been to North Haven, you've seen a lot of this stuff. So, I won't talk through all of the uh proposed
amenities, but it, as I mentioned, it'll be as nice, if not nicer, than what we did at North Haven. These are the uh a the clubhouse renderings and the multif family renderings generally consistent with, you know, with a few tweaks with
what occurred at North Haven. This is the overall the site plan in color. So you can see you kind of enter onto a boulevard condition off of 46. And we are making some off-site improvements in terms of a right turn lane in and then we're extending a left
turn lane from Absala uh all the way to the entrance of this property. Uh we've got the commercial out parcels on the frontage. We've got shared parking as mentioned kind of nearest the residential buildings to the north. Um, and the idea here is that if you're uh
living in these uh apartments, you can walk to the whatever if there's a quick service restaurant or something like that, you can walk and not have to drive uh to to uh access those out parcels. Got the pool and clubhouse kind of centrally located and then an amenitized
pond in the back. Um it was mentioned about the storm water requirements. They're they're significant. So you'll notice there's a pond on the north, there's a pond in the center, and then we've even got a smaller pond on one of the out parcels uh to the to the west. So, but trying to really keep all of
those uh ponds amenitized and and you know, helping you know the built environment rather than just being square utilitarian pawns. >> Wait, go back. What's at the
narcissus end of the big pond that's sort of squared off there? >> Talking about like right here. >> These are garages. >> These areas. This is dog park.
>> Yeah, this what's this? >> Oh, I have a sl I have a slide that shows a detail of that, but that's a a part of the amenity. >> Okay. Yes. Um, but here's the thought process as you really enter on more of a boulevard condition. So, the multif family will be
in the back with a terminated vista of a clubhouse and then you'll have, you know, the the out parcels um with pedestrian accommodations from State Road 46 and the multif family. So, it all works together. Here's just a zoomed out uh version of
that perspective drawing. uh really trying to make a a statement with the entrance and the landscaping as you arrive into the central clubhouse and leasing office of the multif family. Uh this is the um the detail I think you
were referring to mayor. This is the paddle courts and uh shade structure um for additional amenities, pickle ball and those types of things. So playground yeah for the kids. Um, and then this is
a detail of the pool. You can see, you know, comparable to what occurred at North Haven resort style pool with different types of amenities around the pool, cabanas and and such. So, these are some images just
representative of the clubhouse, fitness center, pool house. Uh as mentioned in the report uh we do have uh capacity uh for sewer, portable water reclaim, sawways, transportation and public schools. So there was no
objections to capacity uh to being able to serve this project. >> Now >> um and so we agree with the staff recommendation on uh all three applications. Uh we did have one tweak to condition number 20 which would be to
remove it. Um I I we talked a little bit about the shared parking. I think we're okay with the language as proposed. Uh the if needed at the end of that um goes a long way uh for us. Uh so we would be amendable to that change. Uh but we did
get this uh condition to discuss uh evaluating the feasibility to connect to narcissus and we did that um early in our project. U our our first one actually showed a connection to narcissist. we were excited to do it uh until we got into the engineering and
the due diligence uh with respect to that. So, there's some pretty low overhead power lines in that area. There's an existing ditch. Uh there's a shallow gas man. I think that's what's most concerning there. It's at about 2.8 ft underground. You're required to have 4 foot of cover on a gas man. Uh which
is really why we didn't want to propose um relocating that or or directing vehicular traffic over it. um we'd likely need to, you know, reconstruct the road. Also, our um our study showed that there's some localized flooding on Narcissus and we didn't want to direct
um traffic onto a road that has flooding concerns. Um and then the final one, you know, was just it was going to be resident only. We were concerned with access in terms of trucks uh not having access to the gate and then having to back into narcissist being an unsafe
condition. Um, so our alternative was to provide really this cross access uh as this property potentially comes in for redevelopment to the west. Uh, we'd have the opportunity to kind of make this connection and keep going over to Monroe. Um, and we've got the the two
existing uh access points that we're proposing here. So there will be some um opportunity to to come out of the multif family. You've got uh multifamily gates in this location. So there's some permeability uh as it pertains to getting emergency services in and out
because there will be multiple ways uh using the boulevard uh as well as the the multiple access points that we're proposing. I mentioned the um uh off-site improvements. Uh we are proposing a right turn lane and a left turn lane on 46. Uh we're fixing that
merge condition and exceeding the FDOT requirements. Um and and this kind of proposal really allows us to continue, you know, a frontage road that would ultimately serve many other parcels as we get closer to the intersection.
>> Is wait, is there cross access between the um two parcels in front of the apartments and the third parcel? >> Yes. There there will be a shared drive here that'll run to the north. So this will ultimately >> but to the third parcel. >> Yes. It'll go through here and it'll it'll cross this ditch and then it'll
>> we would like to stub it here so when this property comes in, it would continue on and and serve four or five parcels and potentially get you all the way over to the next road. >> Uh so with that, that concludes my presentation. Uh we would just ask to remove uh condition number 20 and we're
acceptable to the language on the the parking and uh I'm here for any questions. We also have our full team uh here and uh want to close by just thanking staff for working with us through this process. Um it's been great. Thank you. >> Questions? >> I got questions, but I don't know
legally if it's allowed for us to ask those right now, Attorney Green, because we're just talking about annexation. >> Yeah. Should we just vote on annexation and move on? >> I would agree. Let's start with the vote on annexation. If you have questions about annexation, then let's do that. So
at this point we'll limit conversation just to the annexation. >> Yes sir. >> Okay. All right. This is a public hearing. Is anyone from the audience wish to speak about the annexation? Okay. Seeing no and I'll close the public hearing. Bring commission for action to approve.
>> Second motion and second. Any further discussion? All in favor. >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. So that would be first reading. Uh brings us to first reading of 4861. An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, amending the city of Sanford
comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment of the future land use element of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan relative to certain real property of approximately 2.65 65 acres from highintensity plan development target industry to westside
industry and commerce and assign tax identification partial number 2819305030000000010 which is generally addressed as 100 Crosswood Loop within city limits. Said property being more specifically described in this ordinance providing
for legislative findings and intent. Providing for assignment at a land use designation for the property. Providing for the adoption of maps by reference. Providing for severability, providing for ratification of prior acts of the city, providing for conflicts, providing
for codification and directions to the code codifier, and providing for the implementation of the statutory expedited state review process and an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, on June the 4th of 2026, the city's
planning and zoning commission voted on a vote of 4 to1 to recommend that the city commission approved the smallcale comprehensive plan amendment to amend the future land use from highindustrial plan development target industry to westside industry and commerce. It is
therefore a SAS recommendation city commission approve ordinance number 4861 on first reading. Okay, this is public hearing. Does staff have anything else to add? The applicant have anything else to add? Okay, this is
public hearing. Anyone on audience wish to speak on the um change of future land use? I'll close public hearing. Brand the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. Motion second. Any further discussion? Yeah, I just like to note
that like I can't deny it legally, but it seems like we're asking for a lot of maximum density while asking for a lot of reductions, a lot of deductions. So, I'm
I'm really concerned about that. >> Any question other questions or comments? >> Uh, yes. There's a section in here that talks about uh the amendment. It will meet all the performance standards with the exception that the wetlands on
the subject property are not intended to be preserved. As part of the PD reszone application, staff will be recommending a condition. You I just want you to help me understand this. recommending a condition to the PD reszone to allow
staff to change the designation of any non-impacted wetlands on the site to resource protection at the end of site development. So, >> okay. So, the city of Sanford has a land use designation specifically known as
resource protection. >> Mhm. >> Wetlands that are in the city and has have been in the city for some time. When we did our future land use map got a designation of resource protection. >> Some of the other ones as we've reallocated resource protection when plans when sites have developed, we've
moved lines, we've shifted, redeveloped certain wetlands, closed in others. We've adjusted our resource protection. The county just has an overlay identifying where those types of things are. They do not have a land use category that's called resource protection. So when we annex them and we
land use amend them amend them they go from county to city county as hippie comes in as westside industry and commerce does not come in as resource protection. So at the end of this project, although the applicant is is utilizing their right to mitigate the
wetlands through other means, not through the city, through other organizations, St. John's, FD, whatever it is that the wetlands get mitigated through, they um if there are any left on site, we reserve the right to make them resource protection when the
project is done. That's what that statement is saying. >> Okay. So, we don't necessarily know right now. Well, they have no intention of keeping any of them, but correct. We don't. >> So, what does it matter? They're not going to keep it anyway, >> right? But we would like to reserve the right in the event if all the development if they can't get it
mitigated through whatever means they're accorded the right to do that, then if it remains wetlands, we want to make it resource protection for our future land use later to identify it as such. >> And just uh I don't know, maybe a side question, but how many times are we
mitigating these wetlands and ending up with none? a lot, but it's outside of our control. But we do utilize, as you noted in the beginning, we do not allow them those
wetlands as toward their density and intensity calculation. So if you have a 10acre site and 80% of his wetlands, you only get to use 20% to calculate your maximum use. So it does >> makes sense, >> right? It does deter from overutilizing
sites that are predominantly wetlands. When there are sites with small amount of wetlands, the cost effectiveness of developing them may not be as detrimental as a site that might be 80 or 90% wetlands. >> Okay? >> So, we do not allow we do a pre a
pre-development calculation. So, if you have wetlands on site, those wetlands don't get to count for developable. So that's our comp plan goal to keep intensity down and to encourage not to close in those wetlands, but they can still exercise that right.
>> Okay. Did we have any wetlands in North Haven before that was developed? >> I don't believe so because it was a lot of farmland and then there was the treed areas that were on the west side. >> On the west side. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And
it looks like they have just made the barely four of the eight amendment criteria. >> Can I ask a wetland question before you move on? >> Go right ahead. >> Are the the wetlands are um basically on lots lots two and three. Is that where
they are? >> Yeah, it's that's southwest I think. >> I mean, are they is all of it up there up front along 46? >> It's been Yeah. Okay, >> they're on that side. >> All right.
Okay. Thank you. Go ahead, Commissioner Thomas. >> Uh, okay. I think those are the only questions I have on this particular item. Although this was the item where the one commissioner did not vote for
it. >> Right. We had one planning and zoning commissioner vote down this. But there really is no other alternative. we have to assign it a lane use category and this is what corresponds with the county's lane use category.
>> Okay, thank you Eileen. >> And I believe in our comp plan it actually says everything along State Road 46, west of Airport Boulevard to Westside Industry and Commerce if it's like north of 46A, south of of the riverfront and then west of and it up
until where it hits the mall which is high intensity. There's a whole red block in the middle that has to be westside industry commerce. It's not really an option. That makes sense. >> Okay. >> All right. Any other questions? >> Do we have a motion?
>> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Did I close the public hearing? >> Think you did. >> Yeah. So motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? So, was that up?
>> No, no, no. I don't oppose. I can't unanimous. >> Okay. >> All right. So, that's first reading of ordinance 4862. >> An ordinance to the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the PD reszoning of a parcel of real property totaling
22.22 22 acres in size located at 100 Crosswood Loop and assigned tax parcel identification numbers 281930 50340010 1619305 AC4009601 1930 5ac40096A
161930 5A 40096E 161935 A4870 1619305 AC 400087 161935 AC 4000876 by the Semino County Property Appraiser
which property is located within the Sanford city limits to establish the Royal Palm at Crosswood Loop PD providing for findings and intent providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions providing for the adoption of a map by reference providing
for conflicts providing for severability providing for non-codification and the correction of script errors and providing for an effective date and potential reversion. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on June the 4th of 20126, the city's planning and zoning commission
unanimously voted that the city commission adopt ordinance number 42 I mean 4862 uh regarding the 2.65 65 acre property from Semino County R1A
single family to city of Sanford AG and revise the incorporate the 10 acre seinal business center to PD property to establish the Royal Palm at Crosswood PD.
Hey, this is Quai Judicial. I did meet with the applicant several months ago when I toured um North Haven and they in in generality described their plans for this property. Anyone else have anything to declare? >> So did I say
>> I have none. >> All right. >> None. I'll just Should we correct for the record that there was one? It was not a unanimous approval on the zoning. >> It's corrected as part of the testimony on the record once you pointed it out.
Okay. Okay. And it should duly be reflected in the minutes. >> Thank you. >> Was that the zoning or the future land use? >> That was the future land use where there was the one uh board member. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Does staff have anything else? >> And does the applicant have anything else? This is a public hearing. Anyone in the audience wish to speak to the reszoning? See no one and I'll close the public
hearing. Bring it to commission for discussion or move to >> approve. Commission Burton discussion. >> Got discussion. And then I'm also looking for clarification from Attorney Green because I always get slapped on the wrist about talking about things
when we're talking about zoning and um so on and so forth. But am I allowed to discuss the deviations here when we're talking about the reasoning? Okay. So, >> all 16 of them. >> All thank you. Okay. So, I'm concerned because from my notes, and you know, I
take a lot of them. I'm looking at the landscape buffer, building setback, open space, parking dimensions, parking count, architecture, parking buffer, mechanical screening, um the car wash requirement, the units per b per
building, unit access, building height, garage. It's it's a lot of deviations which we don't allow um for other I mean we get close to it but I haven't seen it and since I've been here this many deviations and it's
it it feels like we we're redesigning our code to fit this project and I'm already concerned about what's happening on 46. I don't want to overstep Commissioner Wiggins being that it's District 2, but still it's like, okay, we opened up the floodgates and now we're building, building, building.
We're talking about, you know, having enough emergency services, police, fire. And that's why I interjected and I'm saying we have enough capacity now, but if we keep building the way that we're building and loading so much, 320 units
with approximately two people at a minimum at in in one unit, that's a lot in that small parcel there. And I'm really concerned about it. And it to to me it seems like at at what what point are are we saying all of these multiple
deviations in this proposed site it does [clears throat] it make sense for it to happen like that? And and I'm sorry I don't want to overload you Eileen but I didn't like that we said that there was no objections
from the adjacent properties. They just may not have shown up to a meeting, but there was nothing that was in writing to say that we're okay with having this high intensity next to us and now we're decreasing all of the buffers and setbacks and so on and so forth. That's
my concern re regarding this matter that that this is a lot of of deviations from our code. I know it was a lot. I'm just concerned. I'm not really >> I just don't want to start talking until you're done. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Okay.
>> Um, actually the majority of the arch the majority of the deviations are consistent with what we've been doing as it relates to our current multif family code. >> C. Do we have a can we like All right,
let's go back through it because I'm seeing big deviations. Not like, you know, 2 feet, 10 feet. We're going from like 100 to 50 and different things like that. Those are big changes. It's not like okay we are trying to fit this we
want to make sure that we have enough open space. These are large deviations. >> The the deviation on the west side by the single family is is a significant deviation and the applicant can speak to that um if you want to ask them specifics about it. But as it relates to
the open space that's deviation two that's generally consistent with what we've done with others. The parking count at 1.8 8 or actually the parking space dimension is consistent. We've been cons continually reducing that down to um 9 by8 for apartment spaces and
then >> the >> what >> and target >> and target and some yeah target's got some very unique reductions. Um the deviation four where we have a 1.8 parking space is two per unit per our
code. However, we've gone down as little as 1.5 on standardized um standardized market rate and then we've gone even lower on one project for an adult 50 plus incomerestricted one.
So the architectural there's always been some sort of modifications to make each individual project work whether it be a height or it be a step back requirement. Um in this case it's four stories. It's what's the going, you know, height on the apartments. This one's a little bit
taller only because it has more architectural features. It's still only a four-story apartment. The parking buffer, um, this is the multif family parking buffer. They're providing zero feet of buffer to the proposed residential buildings in require in lie
of the required 30 >> 30 zero from 30. Um, it's designed to provide convenient travel, distance spreads. This, this one's a little different than normal. The,
um, mechanical equipment, they're just ground floor mechanical equipment. They're going to be screening it by by landscaping the um the next one the requesting the dwelling units to have
individual unit numbers for instead of individual street addresses. So that's just something that >> but I'm just listing all of them. >> Right. No, no, no. And that's fine. The comment I'm just walking through them with you. It's it's often that we do leave out the car wash and a lot of it has to do with one there are enough car
washes in the immediate vicinity for outside use as well as it does less impact on us for water the oil water separators and utility concerns because you if you put a car wash drain it has to separate storm water from rainwater I
mean storm water from sewer water and those systems have to be so when you remove that element it's an amenity loss to the individual But at the same time, there are nearby car washes. So, um, and it's not something that we haven't deviated before. The units allowed per
building. Our current design code is only eight units per building. And those are the big house style apartment units. 8 to 12 is that type of building type, which is like Arbor Lakes Apartments and Lake Edge Apartments, which are really big houses. They have garages. They look
sort of like McMansions, but that's not the current um the current building style for apartments are the self-contained ones with courtyards in the middle and multif family buildings that wrap around those. They're taller. They're more dense. That's to the tune
of 60 >> 60 and that's not >> that's not the highest either. We've had some as you know 80 90 in a building and then some as low as you know 32 or 40. Garden style is usually between 32 and 36. >> And you're justifying this one, staff is
justifying this one by saying, well, if we don't allow this, it would limit the ability to create a compact development with commercial out parcels. In other words, it won't let them do what they want to do. >> It wouldn't No, no, no. It wouldn't comply with Westside dentistry and commerce future lane use. It's required
to be dense. It's required to be higher intensity. And it's required to have more units. They have to have a minimum of dwelling 10 dwelling units per acre. at eight per building you can. >> But to go from eight to 60. >> Well, right. That's But like I said, that's that's along that model where
it's one interior entrance into the building. You have one elevator. They're not garden style. Each one doesn't have their own staircase leading to the outside. >> Wait, did I miss something? You said what now? From eight to what? >> 60 units per building. >> Wait,
>> and there's six buildings. >> What? Why have we never rewritten our apartment code from way back when when >> when when we did this? Because I don't think there is ever >> anyone who meets the mall.
>> I don't think we've ever had an apartment complex developed under our current apartment. >> Add to your list of changes. >> Well, part of it this has been going on for years. Is there a reason we haven't done it? There are some elements that by
keeping it it protects us from um in the state realm of current changes. >> Senate bill 180. >> No. Yeah. This is not um things like local which is allowing us to put things in places they may or may not be compatible but they still have to meet
our zoning requirements. >> Okay. Correct. So, our zoning requirements are these. And if it can't be met, it still is required to go through that public hearing process, which gives us some ability to assist in designing something that is um community compatible.
>> Okay, >> that's one of many reasons. Some of which is we not really sure how to redesign them because apartments are continually changing. We went from the big house to the garden style to the single buildings like Georgetown Square back down to the multi-buildings with 60
units each and their, you know, courtyard in the middle. It's constantly changing. So, it's a challenge to figure out how to write a multif family code that meets the everchanging market of multif family. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> So, all right. Um the unit access points they did successfully at um North Haven and that was what I was talking about. They don't have their own walkups. They don't have their own entries to the street. They go in one main building entry. So that's a variation, but it is
a good design element. It protects um the residents inside. They don't have all the multitude of 8,000 stairwells outside. It's just a different design characteristic. Um >> it's packing a lot of people in there. And then the building height, like I
said, it's it's five story. It's I mean a fourstory, it's consistent with other things. The detached garages and units, we've gone everywhere from eliminating them completely to like at the few down the way to 20 or 30%, which is about
average. It's actually a little bit higher than average. That's not anything that's >> that's a request that's out of the norm. Um the parking lot landscaping we as staff would always prefer to see more landscaping but things that we've
brought to the commission in the past you've been amendable to relieving parking I mean landscaping requirements in parking lots. So we are working with applicants on that. >> Yeah you are asking for some clarification on this one.
You are we >> staff is clarification on the deviation explanation and provided landscape plan is being requested by staff >> but would not be supportive of one tree per towel row. >> Right. We are requesting two canopies
perh >> versus the one. >> What does our code say that we have to have? I'm sorry. >> What does the code say that we have to have? What does our code say? Because you're saying >> it's all Yeah, they're Okay. So, they're
requesting I mean, we can read through it, but basically um the parking space requirement is essentially two parking space requirements making it 400 ft, two 10 by 20 spaces. >> They're seeking to drop that down to 250
ft. in that 400 square f feet there's a set amount of required planting. Obviously with 250 square feet it's difficult to meet the 400 square foot required planting. We are amendable to reducing the landscape island area but
still want to keep the landscaping requirement within. So um >> and you're supporting the 15 in lie of 25 ft landscape buffer on 46 adjacent to 46. >> Are we on the You're not talking about
the the buffer and setback yet, are you? >> Yeah, I was on moving deviation 15. >> All right. Well, can we go back to 14? >> Okay. So, what is it that we're requiring in the PD? >> The one tree or the two trees?
>> Um, staff would not be supportive of one tree per double row parking area at 250 square ft as the deviation explanation seems to read. >> Right. We want the trees that would be required in 400 even though they're only doing 250.
>> Sounds like a point. >> Okay. So, is that what's in the >> approval? See what our and we'd have to put that in there as a condition, right? >> Well, I don't know what's >> unless they already have it in as a
condition. >> I don't remember seeing it. >> It's not >> it's not what's proposed in any of the conditions that I can see. So if you want to add it as a condition, I think we just wrote it in the staff report to
say this is what we would prefer to support. >> So and obviously the applicant's going to request opportunity to discuss any final conditions and have to the negotiations. So I would definitely make sure that what we're
>> requiring of them. Obviously staff pushes for more landscaping, but as I've noted in the past, there's been some flexibility by means of the commission to reduce that landscaping. So, it's going to be um a commission action to make sure that that condition meets what
the commission wants to see. >> Okay. >> Um the landscape buffer on 46 to 15 ft is not something that we haven't done before. The masonry wall, they're requesting the deviation to remove the required 4ft masonry wall around the
property. I mean a 4 foot masonry wall. We've we've eliminated it on a number of projects. It's sight contextual depending on where it works and where it doesn't. I don't know that it's necessary to wrap this entire project with a 4 foot,
>> but you have again here asked for further clarification. >> Well, they've got some other existing chain link fence. It's just an aluminum picket fence um as other components. So staff says they they support the
request to remove the 4ft masonry wall, but we request further clarification if the multif family project intends to gate the western property line or if all landscaping is if only landscaping is proposed along the western property line. The development adjacent to a multif family project with an existing
chain fence. 6oot aluminum fence is proposed along the northern property line. also includes the storm water pond for additional setbacks on the road. As identified by the applicant, the applicant proposes landscaping along the western property line adjacent to a 10-ft width. Seminal county ditch limits
the amount of space available to construct a structurally safe wall. So, if there's anything outside of what's on the master plan that the commission wants to see, this was where we needed clarification. So the commission can
make alternate recommendations depending on where your desire to see design standards for the project. But otherwise what's on the master plan is what would proceed unless other modifications are made today or by secondary.
>> How do you feel about that one may >> confused? >> I was trying to picture the walls in all the different places. >> Yeah. >> A wall in what? >> All the different walls and fences in the different places. as I was trying to run through those. >> Well, the ditch the 4 foot masonry have
an issue there. >> And why I don't even know why >> that's in our code. I don't know. >> What's the point of that? >> Um I think it's along the roads right along road frontages and stuff. It sort of creates a visual
>> break for fourtory building. You've got a a sort of a setback to design. But in this situation, because they're going to have the road, they're going to have shorter commercial buildings and then behind it they're going to have the taller multif family. That's where that
would really come in as a component. >> So there's no wall around across. There's nothing except landscaping along 46. >> Is that correct? >> Should be Yeah. I mean, unless something's designed at the time when the m when the commercial out parcels
come in, but there's no need for a wall along 46 for commercial out. >> And then where there's an existing chain link fence between this property and the one to the west >> west. >> Mhm. >> What happens there? >> Pulling up a plan.
This is where having paper is easier than >> it is flipping. >> Now, if you open multiple windows, >> let me do that from here. >> Yeah, >> you can take any tab and drag it, move it to a separate window,
but it'd be nice if I could do a page to it. Okay. So, they're looking to put up a sixoot vinyl fence along that ditch, but a wall won't go there because of the stability. >> So, the chain link fence goes away. They get a vinyl fence. That's what they're
proposing. So, that >> on the on the side, >> they're shaking their head now. >> Shaking their head. So, >> okay, let them describe the fencing. How about that? >> There will be something between that and the ditch. Can I bring them back up? Can I >> there? It's going to be necessary for clarification.
>> So, we're going to reopen the public hearing. Um, can we put the map up and have the applicant come up and just describe the walls and fencings and landscaping or around the perimeter of the property, please? >> So, the two the last two are the masonry
wall and the um the two mason rules, the 4ft one and the six foot one. So the applicant can clarify all the fencing for you. That would >> too far. >> And I've got a a hidden slide that addresses the >> hidden slide
>> of the ditch. >> You're keeping something from us. >> I have those two at the end of the presentation. There's extra slides. >> Yeah, of course. Just in case it comes up. So very good questions and um trying
to follow along with the discussion particularly as it relates to the western property line. There are a series of ditches that are kind of shown here in blue that really outline >> um three of the four sides of the property. Um the western ditch currently
is I think what we're talking about how we're providing buffering and what type of treatment we're providing against that ditch. Uh that ditch currently encroaches onto the subject property. So a portion of the ditch is on our site. Um and it's owned by Seminal County. um
FDOT, the county, other properties are all draining into that ditch currently. Um and it floods. We've heard from numerous folks that it's uh flooded because we have spoken with the residents who uh live directly adjacent to the ditch that I think everyone's
well aware of uh and speaking about. Um we're going to improve that ditch. Uh Royal Palm is going to spend likely over $250,000 to correct the issue with the ditch. Um, so that would, you know, involve, I know we're still in discussions with Seminal County on on
the exact design. Uh, but what will happen is they're going to need a maintenance easement. Uh, the county will on the east side of the ditch. So, we're not allowed to do vertical structures in that location. So, we can't do a wall. Um, we have contemplated potentially doing a vinyl
fence on the west side of the ditch actually on those residential properties as a as a um just compatibility measure to to assist with those residents. But we do have uh dense landscaping proposed in that location. And we've got um some standards in our PD that basically say
if the county comes in and rips that out to do maintenance, we'll go replace it at our cost. So there it will always be there in perpetuity but we can't um put any sort of vertical structures and we don't know the exact width of these yet. Numbers have been thrown around anywhere
between 20 to 25 ft within the property line. Uh so that's kind of the challenge that we have uh on the west side of the site. But um we have been in contact I don't know if Camille you want to add anything but Camille has been in contact with many of those residents in those areas. One of the gentlemans did show up
at our CAP meeting and we we talked him through it. So, um, that's, uh, our our proposal for that section. And then I'll just kind of circle back on the other one, the landscaping that we talked about kind of the 30 ft uh, to the
parking lot. And we were proposing zero. That's really for this condition down here on the south side adjacent to the commercials. So, you have the parking here that's loading directly onto this drive aisle. it didn't make sense for us to, you know, do a 30-foot buffer in
this location when we're trying to integrate everything together is one project. So, just wanted to kind of clarify what that was. If there's questions on any of the other deviations, I think, uh, we're prepared to address those individually. Um, and many of them stem from the fact that the
code hasn't been updated since it, um, you know, used to require those those, well, currently it requires those big house standards as mentioned by staff. Uh we did receive many of those deviations on uh North Haven. Uh so we really carried a lot of those four as our starting point.
>> What goes on the east side which I thought there's a chain link fence there now. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. Good evening, Mayor uh Commission. Just for clarification purposes, uh Mayor Woodruff, could you clarify which
portion of the property you're referring to? Is it the single family homes on the east side or is it the apartment on the on Okay. On the west side. >> Sorry, I might have got my east and west mix. The residential homes are on the west side, the apartments are on the east side. Sorry about that. I do that often. >> And if you'll just state your name,
please. >> Sorry. Camille Salami Royal Palm Company's uh >> 333 Southeast Second Avenue, Miami, Florida. >> Because there are apartments over here, right? >> There are apartments over there. They have an existing fence on their property line. Okay. And then there's a 30 foot there is I think it's a chain link
fence. There's a 30 foot wide uh rightway. That is that ditch parcel that runs north south that separates us from them. And then there would be our property line. As Eric Rash mentioned earlier, the county has been quite clear to us they're going to need access to that ditch and they expect access from our property which would prevent us from
placing a wall there. >> Okay. Right. And then what goes along Narcissus? >> So along Narcissist, there's another ditch. Uh and there the county would have access to the ditch from Narcissist Road. So they don't need access from our property. At least that's our current
understanding from the county. So, we would be planning to put uh a fence along that property, a nice aluminum picket fence, similar what you've seen at North Haven already. >> Okay. >> Yeah. All right. Everybody follow >> follow on that. >> I sort of did.
>> I I appreciate that the applicant was able to discuss that, but I'm glad to know that it took two of them to answer the question. [laughter] Well, >> Camille [clears throat] wanted his chance to stand up there and say something. >> Um, [clears throat] Cat
So rough count told me that there were almost between 70 and 75 addresses that were sent notices to. I'm presuming that the normal process was followed. Um it just seems unusual to me that with that
many people contacted only one came to the meeting. Not that unusual. I know it's a very usually a big minority, but that just seems really small. >> It really depends on the areas and the neighborhood you're in, but we've had many where, you know, plus notices have
gone out and no one showed up. [snorts] >> I'm just kind of, you know, anticipating the future where all of a sudden 74 of those 75 people are now unhappy and they didn't show up. I know it's up to them to show up, but >> usually they have a community advocate
that that goes to neighbors and say, "Did you know about this? Did you see this?" And that may have happened here because lots of times we get stuff in the mail that we don't really pay attention to maybe and this could have been that thing or something that you just didn't, you know, and if you don't have an HOA or you know that community,
then that you're not talking to your neighbor and say, "Hey, you need to show up for this one." And that's where my concern comes for um protecting those residential homes on the east side, west side. >> West side. >> Okay. Uh are we through the deviations
all hundred of them? I have a few more questions. >> I I don't know if we got a full explanation why >> if we take each of them individually there are there's justification for them. There there just are a lot >> that 120 foot setback that we they went
down to uh what is that 75? Can we get a a a real explanation of that? I know we were talking about ditches and stuff. I apologize. My hand is bothering me tonight. Um Eileen, is that you or the the developer
that can talk about the the buffer and setback? >> Let the applicant speak as to why they did it. assess more whether or not it's compatible, consistent, and common with multiple um other developments before them. So, if they want to explain why
they did certain deviation requests, that would definitely >> I'd appreciate that. And I believe that was the deviation that was immediately on the west side for reducing that that setback adjacent to those residential properties. >> Yes, sir. >> Um there are as mentioned a couple of
residential units that access off of Palm Terrace and we have been in communication with those residents. Mr. Slammy has been. Um what we did here was we oriented the building. So can't really see it here, but um we tried to
not put the building immediately on the uh property line. So we pulled it off so you at least have one single double row of parking. Uh and then we oriented the building so they're not getting the long ends of the buildings directly in their backyards. We do have that county ditch parcel as I mentioned. Um and we we did
the double um uh canopy tree uh treatment on that edge with the 48 shrubs uh in that location. Um a lot of this was also necessitated by the water management district standards. Uh we have to go up and and be more dense because we have so much pond on this
site um to uh require uh for our storm water. So, uh, a lot of that was taken into account in the decision-m, uh, to request this deviation. And again, we've we've coordinated directly with those residents. I I can't speak for them because they're not here this evening.
Um, but we did meet one of those residents at the CAP and explained the whole project to them, and I know Camille's spoken with the other one at length as well. >> Okay. What kind of trees and in that two-layer canopy are are you putting in? >> Let me pull up the landscape plan really
quick. Uh but those will be can be >> and I did look up the person that went to the cap meeting. It's one of those residents. >> Okay. >> Who talked about flooding but then said it might be his own property that was causing it.
>> He is not the closest resident, but he's the second closest. >> And so those those trees haven't been specked yet. Uh but they will meet the minimum requirements for the city's canopy tree requirements. Um but if there are suggestions on what to use in that location, we're we're certainly open to listening.
>> Well, we don't I just don't want a bunch of palm trees. You know, we are wiping out like all of those trees just to replace them. You've got oak trees and we're taking them out because of, you know, to replace with decorative trees. And I've sat with developers before and
they've actually explained to me the root system and why things have to be done. I totally get that. But if we have a buffer and we can keep keep trees, decent trees, trees that help us to breed, um, and to I don't want to see a
bunch of palm trees. >> I agree with you. Okay. So, >> good. >> Anything else? >> No, sir. >> Yes. Uh, and just an FYI, I do appreciate all
of the amenities that are included in this building. I mean, you guys have done a great job with that. >> For people who are moving in and can afford apartments like this, there are wonderful amenities. So, kudos to that. Um, on the transportation study,
the roadway segment analysis was completed. Uh, Monroe, Reinhardt, three segments of 46 Up sale in St. John's it says using existing counts and annual growth rates ratios kept below 1.0. Does
anyone know what animal annual growth rates they used or is this just standard language you throw in there without validating it? >> This is where I step aside and I call on uh the engineer to help. >> On our next engineer, come to the
microphone. Give me some numbers. >> Yep. Good evening, commission and mayor. My name is Jeff Rivera with Kimley Horn. I'm the civil engineer for the project. Um 200 South Orange Avenue, Orlando, Florida. Um so your question was about the average growth rate that was used
for the project. And so um uh I I'll be candid. The traffic engineer for the project couldn't be here. Um he'll be at the second reading, but they use standard methodology whenever they do these traffic studies. So we this site is on an F dot road and so the traffic study has to be in compliance with the
city of Sanford and with FDOT and we had a pre-application with FDOT last year going over the methodology for the traffic study and so those growth standards are in accordance with both Sanford and FDOT's meth uh approved methods. >> Okay. Could you maybe make a note that
at the second reading you can uh give me a little more detail on the growth rates that were used? >> Absolutely. >> Appreciate that. >> Okay. Um, we talked about education. The applicant will comply with all requirements with schools regarding school concurrency and capacity. Uh, as
Commissioner Britain was talking about, we of course are concerned not just but now in the future >> because we're already seeing some concerns about their ability to accommodate all this new growth. Um,
and this won't surprise anybody. Yes, I am concerned about uh the environmental impact. The wetlands we've talked about uh based on preliminary site evaluation and environmental reporting, these wetlands
are believed to be of relatively low ecological quality. Um I would love to get that past believed to be to absolutely are. I don't know if we can maybe another homework assignment for
the second reading. Um because again we're constantly mitigating these wetland impacts and at some point I'm going to draw I wanted to draw the line legally might not be today and probably isn't today but this is just really concerning
me. Uh, also of significance to me, at a minimum, possibly only me, there is an active bald eagle nest located just northwest of the subject property. Uh, applicant has submitted a general take permit application
as of August of last year to authorize construction activity in accordance with Eagle Protection guidelines. Additional coordination with USFWS is underway to ensure full compliance. Uh, is anyone here able to tell me more about a
general take permit? Whose turn is it? Come on back up, Camille. >> Give it a shot. >> Good evening again. Um my non-expert understanding of this and I will be sure to have biotech uh consulting here at
the next hearing. They are the experts at this is if actually Eric can we go back to the site plan that shows the buffer. Let me see if I can find here we go. >> So which one's the >> So there are these different buffer
areas. There's an eagle's nest as as you mentioned on the adjacent property. That little point right there marks right. >> It's within the buffer zone. >> And so this is a 330 foot buffer. And then this is a 660 foot buffer right here. And so there are different
requirements within different buffer zones. I believe uh there's a no improvement zone of roughly 150 ft. Um but again I'll have biotech confirm that to mention. Um, within 330 ft, they generally allow for horizontal
improvements, but like to persuade folks not to do any vertical improvements that may disturb the eagle. And then within 330 to 660, they allow for vertical improvements, but you have to monitor the construction of the project. That way, if you were to disturb an active
nest, uh, active means I think the eagle's actually habitating the nest perhaps with hatchlings. Um, if the eagle were to display some level of disturbance, you would have to stop construction, let the eagle reaclimate, and then come back to restart construction at a later date when the experts believe it's safe for the eagle
to continue to do so. Um, in my conversations with biotech, uh, one of the things that that highlighted for me is there's narcissist road that runs east west right here, an existing industrial development that's immediately north. And that Eagle's Nest, I think, predates that development and seems to have weathered that quite
well. Um and and they believe that uh because of the acclamation to these surrounding improvements that this wouldn't be of great disturbance to the eagle if at all. Um and the active take permit that we received doesn't mean we're going to take the nest. We're not doing anything to the nest. I'm trying
to make sure that's the term they use. We're not touching the nest. It's not on our property. We're not even going to walk past it. Okay. Um, it's going to be monitored during construction and it should hopefully be in safekeeping throughout the entire process. And again, if it's not, there will be a professional there
that would stop construction until it's safe to restart. >> Okay. I hope you're right about the fact that they've already survived what's already been happening there. I hope this isn't the straw that breaks the eagle's back, so to speak. Uh, it is an Ottabon monitored nest, so it's it's not
just like any eagle's nest around the area. So this one in particular I will always be paying attention to >> and you doing the legal things that you have to do is good because I'm going to be watching.
>> I hope um you take this sincerely. I'm very actively involved in all of our development projects and all facets. We always try to do the right thing whether it's to the wildlife to our neighbors for the city. Um, so >> or go for tortoises that aren't as beautiful as the bald eagle, but they
kind of do. >> Yep. And and and even when not required by municipalities to go survey for them, we go survey and make sure there are none on the site anyway. And if there were and they needed to be relocated, we take care of that, too. Unlike maybe some uh and part of the, you know, site planning when you had asked about the
orientation of it. One of the things that did factor into this was the location of the nest and kind of pushing buildings outside of that while also accommodating the storm water requirements. as you can see here, like that was a limiting factor for this building here and making sure I didn't want to take that step of asking for an accommodation inside of the 330. We
wanted to keep that building out of it and that kind of helped orient the overall site as a whole. >> Okay, I appreciate all that information and bring your bio guy next week. >> Well, was the question rhetorical about the eagle requirements or so that he would explain it to the public?
>> It was. Yes. I want all the public to understand what a take permit is. >> All right. So when they hear concur with basically everything he said I'm sure based on my knowledge. >> I'm sure you will. Okay. So I think I've given you all your homework assignments and that might be all. Let me just do
one more double check. Uh recommendation. Okay. Give me one more second so I don't make you get up again. Claudia, are you looking at conditions or just going back over questions that you may have to ask?
>> Uh, I'm not to the conditions and I think I can probably turn it back to you if you want to talk about the conditions because we do want to capture those. Okay. >> And I know that the ultimate Eileen recommendations Yeah, I think we're to that point. You may sit. Thank you. >> Um, the recommendations do include a
list of conditions. So, or maybe that was planning and zoning's list. >> No, there's a list of conditions. >> Okay. >> The question is, did we want to change >> 21? They're requesting to strike one of them. They're requesting to modify one
of them. And then if there's anything that you want to clarify or change from what's on the PD master plan for those conditions as noted from the recommendations and the staff assessment that needs to also be declared
specifically there was some discussion about deviation number 14 with regards to trees and if that is something that the commission wants to have included it should be included as one of the uh conditions number 23. Yeah, I think we would like to have the
applicant look at if whether or not they can do that and come back with that at the next reading. >> That's more of an advisory condition right now. >> Commissioner Britain. Yes. >> Uh yeah, I I agree with 14. I'm looking
for the one regarding the open space, the 30% versus the in lie of the required um 50%. Forgive me, I have torn up my book. believe that's condition number I mean deviation number two commissioner.
Yes ma'am. That's number two. Thank you attorney Green. And then the setback buffer 120. Um that's the [snorts] one next to the single family homes. Oh, and number 17. Okay. Do we have something we want to
add to the conditions? >> No, sir. Okay. So, the question about the trees is we would like them to come back and tell us whether we can change that or not next time, right? We're not adding that as a condition at this point.
>> Is that correct? >> Why aren't we changing about the trees? Like, what are we to work? >> That's what I'm trying to figure out. >> Okay. I think they >> plus we already have a motion on the floor, so I got to figure out, >> right? Declaration of the types of trees. I mean, our standard requirements in schedule J have a list of what we
require as canopy trees. >> I think it was the one or two trees. >> Oh, about the parking lot. The one. >> So, do you want them to come back with a standard design of what a landscape island would look like, including the trees, because I think the applicant
could probably do that. >> Two canopy trees per landscape area, >> right? Meeting what staff is requesting. The applicant can come back with a >> see what it looks like. Yeah. >> A layout. >> Okay. So, we may add that as condition next time. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then there was the one they
wanted removed that staff >> 20 the narcissist avenue >> which staff recommended against and since there was no removal of that in the motion I'm assuming that one is still in. Is that correct? Okay.
>> And we wanted to staff wanted to add if needed. Was that it? That's on D on uh 16 uh condition 16 and the applicant was agreeable to that language. >> Okay. And was that part of the motion to
include the as needed on condition 16? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we're all in agreement as to what the motion is and we have no more to try to add to it. At this point, >> we just just for clarification, are we
sticking with the setback next to the residential homes of the from 120 ft to I think that was 47. >> No one asked to change to make a
difference in that condition. >> Okay. >> So, is that what you're doing? >> Yes, sir. I'm concerned about that. unless if they are able to get the homeowners um to sign off on it. But mayor, what I heard you say was the the homeowner that
attended the CAP meeting was the one that was a little bit further away. I would like to hear from that homeowner, unless Commissioner Wiggins, you say something different. um just to make sure that we're protecting the property rights and the the peace and tranquility
of those ex existing properties first. >> I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want to say we want to hold it up because what if they reach out to that their that citizen they can't get in touch with that person and so I mean I don't want to hold them. >> Well, we have a second reading but
>> I mean if they can't get get in touch with them, I don't want to hold that up and be able to punish them. We've got at least six houses it looks like that are up against there. >> Um being that we I know that we don't want to hold up development, but I'm I'm no disrespect. I'm not concerned about development at this at this time that
doesn't exist. But those properties, those homeowners, they do exist. And I don't want a line of people saying that the city didn't consider, you know, or take every avenue to to make sure that they were notified that you have this high intensity development that's coming
right there. I at least would like to have another attempt to address it especially because the buffer we are we are bending so much on the the setback and buffer. >> Okay. Did I understand that the applicant had talked to those other
>> Okay. Okay. Can we get something from them? >> And we're not concerned with the buffer on the east side where the Stratford Point apartments are. >> No. No, not at all. just that lines up against the res. >> Yeah.
>> Thank you, mayor, and I I appreciate the concern. I I think we're being asked to prove a negative. >> So, they were sent a notice for a CAP meeting that was held uh many months ago and one person showed up. They were also sent notice specific to this and the
deviations uh for planning and zoning meeting. And I believe one gentleman showed up. I can't even remember if he spoke. We spoke to him afterwards. Our team, we obviously had introduced ourselves. They also got notice for this meeting and and nobody showed up. So, we believe we have
demonstrated compatibility. Again, that setback while we're saying it's from the west side, it's actually the setback is from the ditch and there is a a county ditch that runs behind those neighbors
and then our property. So when we're looking at the distances, we're talking about what we're asking to be decreased from our building set back to the ditch and then there's the ditch and then and then their homes. But I I just I
appreciate that that you're looking out for the neighbors, but we're just not going to be able to agree that we can can contact them and get them to opine on this. We've certainly received many notices. So, you did send them notice including the information about the deviations. They got that as well.
>> The city the city sent them notice twice and we'll send them notice. No, >> you sent them notice twice and we sent them notice once. So, they've got three notices >> and I just want to we're all familiar with you. Just stay >> Oh, I'm so sorry. Uh my name is Rebecca Wilson, 215 Northola Drive here on
behalf of the applicant and I will fill out the yellow form. >> She's still Rebecca Wilson. it still doesn't meet the code and and it doesn't meet my how me as a commissioner am satisfied in the the people being contacted. I'm you know
even I know what you're saying but I'm saying it still doesn't meet our code which leaves it up for denial. So, I'm trying to take every precaution to to look out for though that existing property because a
lot of this don't does not meet our code. >> We we as as she stated, uh, Mayor, we've reached out to them three times. So, I don't I don't believe it's up to them to go and look and try to find somebody. We've done it three times, so I'm all right with it. Okay.
>> As long as that's on the record, I'm good with that. I'm all right with it. Okay. Okay. All right. So, everything's >> I don't like it, but okay. >> Okay. Well, we're clear on what the motion is. Yeah.
>> Right. Eileen and I do have one more question. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we've talked a lot about the deviations and how our code doesn't really lend itself to what anyone would actually build >> right now, but Yeah. Okay. Um, and I know we always talk about PDS as negot
negotiated zoning where we give, they give, we meet in the middle. Okay. Um, what are you identifying that they are providing as enhancements that we would be able to lean on if
someone else provi proposed some of these same deviations? Um well they are doing an extensive amount of landscaping on the west side where they are creating this reduction in buffer. They are providing for a very
large amenity package which is something that we don't see in a lot of our communities. They try to bring as few amenities as possible like a bench and a trash can was one applicant's attempt at an amenity if you recall. >> Okay. So um they are bringing an
enhanced amenity package and then the majority of their deviations are consistent with the development style of today and the last several projects that we've done along Reinhardt Road and 46. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right,
>> Eileen. Are there also not some improvements to the surrounding roads where this project is going to be that they are investing in? >> They are putting in turn lanes. They are putting in cross access between their project. They are creating additional
access points besides the just one into the project and then um >> they're fixing the ditch. >> They're doing some cleanup on the ditch as well. Correct. >> Maybe not fixing the ditch. They're improving the ditch. >> Doing some improvements on the ditch as well. So, yes, there are some offsite
off-site improvements that are also being um presented as part of this overall PDM plan. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that was part of the record. We did reopen the public hearing. So, if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak on this item being no one close the public
hearing, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion from the commission? >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> Passes unanimously. >> Do your homework. >> Okay.
>> Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, I just would like to say that we look forward to having another North Haven with the two H's at kind of quality >> because it's a beautiful development. >> I don't know. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> That's not the whole commission. >> Okay. Um, first reading ordinance 4863, Miss Green, >> an ordinance to the city of Sanford, Florida to amend the North Park Plan development, a real property site totaling 1.37 acres in size, tax
identification parcel number 211930514000000100, which is generally addressed as 3848 Enterprise Way within the city limits to establish indoor for vehicular dealer sales as a permitted use. Providing for the taking of implementing
administrative actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference, repealing all conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. The mayor, members of the commission, on June the 4th of 2026, the
city's planning and zoning commission voted unanimously to recommend that the city commission adopt an ordinance to amend the North Park PD to allow indoor vehicle dealer sales with no outdoor activities. It is therefore staff's recommendation that the city commissioner approve of ordinance number
4863. Okay, this is quite official if anyone has anything to declare. Okay, Miss Hson. >> And for the record, mayor, when you did have the witnesses or anyone want to uh be sworn in, the applicant and owner did
stand up and take the oath. >> Right. >> Okay. North Park ED zoning amendment. So the request is to amend 1.37 acres of the overall North Park plan development,
specifically lot 10. So 3848 Enterprise Way owned by DL Fox Enter uh DL Fox Properties and the applicant was Mr. Bain Jr. The zoning is planned development future lane use is Westside Industry and Commerce which we've had
staff discussions about this evening. The North Park PD was originally established in 2007 and has had several amendments since. On September 4th, the conditional use approval was approved for vehicular service and repair.
High-end appointment only vehicles. The conditional use business was specific to the business only and no outdoor impact were anticipated as part of this business. So what's before you now is to establish indoor boutique vehicular dealer sales, appointment only
operations, no repair, no bodywork, no hazardous material and it should also have minimal impact on the site. So this is the location of the parcel in question and then surrounding it you can see the overall larger North Park PD and
all the really large industrial buildings that are out there. So when the applicant came in, he came in to do a PD reszone and staff approached it from PD resone for the entire North Park and we were going to require conditional use for any
automotive if we were going to open up the automotive and during the P&Z. The review of the PD amendment became for lot 10 specifically. So based on the hearing, staff supported indoor only vehicular dealer sales for lot 10 instead of opening up a conditional use
for the entire center because what that would do is resone the property and then turn around and make the applicant go back for a conditional use on the same lot that we were currently reviewing which we had already done a conditional use for automotive um for the automotive service several months ago. So the
applicant agreed this indoor only condition restricting it to law 10 only. The PNZ determined the indoor sales would maintain low intensity, avoid outdoor display, and remain compatible with the surrounding PD and industrial uses. And the PNZ recommended to approve the PD amendment to allow indoor
vehicular dealer sales only for lot 10. So in your packet are the two conditions that we did attach. And then um specifically the only one of of definite relative to this is the indoor vehicular dealer sales. No outdoor
activities permitted on M 10 as recorded in the black book of the public record system. >> Well, thank you. >> And this is apparently for very custom vehicles that will be sold online.
>> It's kind of more just a storage of these high-end vehicles and keep them inside and all is good. >> All right. Okay. The applicant want you done? Okay. Any questions for staff? Okay. applicant. Mr. >> Valain
all you. >> Is this the real one and only Mr. Valain himself? >> Yes. Hello. Hello. >> You're a neighbor of mine. >> Yes. Uh my name is Sid Valain and I'm
involved with DL Fox Properties 3865 Enterprise Road. uh uh mayor and commissioner, city staff. Uh before I make a comment uh just a side note uh I
serve as co-rustee of the Hickman estate the Hickman trusts and the Hickman trusts related to your last applicant owns that nine acres
commissioner that the eagle has nested on and when the trust bought the property, the eagle wasn't there and it is now there. So if you want any
information about the eagle, we can give you all of the details. >> I appreciate that. >> Yes. Uh and the Hickman Trust uh just built and opened the Comfort in Hotel
out at the airport. We're very proud of that. Uh DL Fox Properties uh operates in the industrial area at
Rand Yard, which is the big railroad uh yard. Uh Sunrail operates there with the shops and so forth. And um
the business model for DL Fox is to build upgraded industrial buildings and enter long-term leases with vetted businesses that are financially sound
and compatible. And this application before you relates to one of those uh DL Fox in that neighborhood has built 18 buildings, 38,000
total square feet. Uh we have a 64,000 square foot building under construction and another 26,000 with your Sanford staff and permitting. And 100%
of these buildings are leased. There are no vacancies. And the business before us today is Collective Auto Group. Uh Corey Gillinger is the owner. Uh they
operate now in Longwood. They want to move to Sanford to uh this building. And uh it's very unique. Uh we had uh this is the building proposed
uh and it's only the north half. It's not the total building, the north half. Uh, and when we negotiated, uh, the relationship,
uh, Corey sells uh, exotic cars, uh, sports cars that range from 80,000, which is the low end, to a couple hundred,000.
He stocks eight to 16 cars. The cars will be stored inside the sales method is not local advertising. It's internet. And uh the
business only has three employees. They'll only take up about four spaces. And this is a typical car. And >> I hope one of them is security. >> Yes,
they will have a top security system. There will be no mechanical work. Um and uh they will be brought in, stored inside, and shown inside, but there's
very little traffic. It's uh pretty much uh uh internet. And uh Corey is here. Uh would you want to make a comment? >> Good evening. I'm Corey Gallinger, the owner of Collective Auto Group. Um I
think Mr. Valen's kind of covered everything. It's um obviously high-end vehicles. They're all stored inside. Um we don't do anything outside. Um just a couple employees. Um very minimal
parking. Um all the vehicles are uh marketed online, sold uh essentially sight unseen. Um very minimal traffic to the business and it's by appointment. So >> and very high security. >> Yes. >> Take care of those cars. >> Oh yeah, definitely.
>> Uh we have uh we we are compliant. Uh we had the the public meeting. There's no opposition. the neighborhood. Uh other renters know about Corey. Everyone supports it
>> and uh uh we had unanimous P&Z support. So uh we ask that uh you consider approving this. Uh when I met with staff initially
uh I met with Adam and uh Adam looked up the existing development order and the zoning category and uh retail auto sales didn't fit. So, uh, we devised the fact
that we would have to amend the current approved zoning for the industrial park which is North Park and that's what's before you, an amendment. >> That's the end of our comment unless
there are questions. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Right. This is a public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item >> or set up an appointment to buy a car? [laughter] See no, I'll close. We'll bring it to the commission for action.
>> Move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> Second. >> Thank you. >> Good to see you, Mr. >> Thank you. Um, first reading of ordinance 4864,
>> an ordinance the Sanford City Commission with adopting >> evaluation and appraisal report pursuant to section 163.3191 Florida statutes directing the city manager to transmit the adopted ER and
all required supporting documents to the Florida Department of Commerce and all other required state and regional agencies pursuant to sections 163.3184 and 63.3191 Florida statutes providing for repealer severability and an effective date.
>> Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, city of Sanford has completed the evaluation and appraisal report for the 2018 2030 comprehensive plan covering the evaluation period 2018 to 2026. State law requires each local government to
perically assess its comprehensive plan to determine whether amendments are necessary based on changes in state law, local conditions, and community priorities. It is our request now the city commission approve ordinance number 4864 on first reading and direct staff
to transmit the evaluation and appraisal report to associated doc and associated documents to department of economic opportunity and other applicable state agencies for review. Okay. So, the next one is the E requirement, the evaluation and
appraisal report. Um, we've talked about this a few times at previous hearings that it was going to come before you. We had done the statistical analysis for it several months ago, sometime last year. Um, but because of Senate Bill 180, we
had been holding to see if this legislative session would make any changes to make this easier for us. So, as it was determined that it did not and Senate Bill 180 still causes some complications with us updating certain elements of our comprehensive plan, Adam
and I decided to move forward with updating the absolute minimums that were required in order to keep our projections up to date so that the comp plan itself is up to date and in compliance for whatever we need in the event we should need to make a text
update or a large scale amendment because the complant stays in effect. However, if you want to make changes to it, you can't make changes until this process is done. So, uh, Florida State statutes requires periodic evaluation of a comprehensive
plan. As noted in your staff report and somewhat on the screen before you, we're required to evaluate the effectiveness of the current comprehensive plan, identify whether amendments are needed, document the changes in state law since our last evaluation, assess local demographic, economic, environmental,
and infrastructure needs, and then evaluate whether the comp plan continues to rely on updated 10-year and 20-year population housing, land use, and infrastructure projections. So um the purpose to is to assess the effectiveness of our 2018 to 2030 plan
determine whether amendments were needed. The scope of this E is not going to be a plan amendment. We're going to identify whether updates may be needed and then Senate Bill 180 clearly limits that nothing can be interpreted as more
restrictive or burdensome and we can't adopt anything like that at this time. So some of the changes that we do want to make or some of the changes even that would be required by law we cannot make. So, uh, state law requires, I'm sorry, the
state law changes are the property rights element, the resilience and peril of flood requirements, the water supply planning requirements, which our utilities staff is currently working on, the live local act, which affects of
course the housing, and then Senate Bill 180, which restricts restricts local governments from adopting um more burdensome or more restrictive regulations. So local conditions, the population growth, housing demand, mobility needs, infrastructure capacity,
and resilience are what we have to look at. The plan performance of the goals, objectives, and policies, they still remain functional as I noted and they're still effective, but if we needed to make another change other than this E, we couldn't do it until the E was done. So, we're going to make our best efforts
to get this through the state as a um an update to our planning horizons so that we can have reliance on our 10 and 20 year projections as required by state statute. So, [snorts] um the mandatory updates were the man the water supply plan which we're
working on and the capital improvements element and annual updates are required on that. Anyway, so the other thing that it does address is the school concurrency data and we have to remain consistent with the Emerald County Public Schools interlocal agreement which we are a part of and these updates
are now permitted are permitted because they are not more restrictive. All right. So the future land use element redevelopment trends annexation impacts and growth projections. We took a look at housing. Oh, these are okay. I'm sorry. These are the recommended
updates based on what we reviewed in the process, none of which we're making today. So the redevelopment trends, annexation impacts for future lings element, affordability diversity and live local impacts on the housing element, the traffic volumes, multimodal needs, sunreil integration in the
mobility element, storm water flood mitigation and long range capacity planning in the infrastructure and resilience. So these are all going to be deferred as anything we do to them may be seen as more burdensome. So um the plan remains effective requires
this E update to make any large scale or text changes. The comprehensive plan continues to be an effective growth management tool and we do use it in each and every public hearing. There are no text amendments proposed in this update as was prevented to adopt any well let's
say most policy changes at this time. So the data updates is what we're doing in this plan. We're updating the population, land use, mobility, and infrastructure projections to meet the 10 and 20-year horizons, and future substantive policy changes are going to be deferred under Senate Bill 180. So,
our next steps is to monitor the legislation, initiate the amendments when allowed. So today we're just asking you to act and transmit the e or e ordinance number 4864 on first reading and then we will
send it to the state agencies direct um staff your job is to direct staff to transmit the e and supporting documentation to department of commerce and all other reviewing agencies. >> Okay. >> Okay. So the items in red are those that
you were talking about which is mostly just updating the years, the horizons, things like that. So there's nothing that's outside of the text that you think could be added now that's less restrictive.
>> We don't want to risk getting this >> moneying that with this, >> right? Because we can always make text amendments in the future and get that rejected, but we want the E to go through. Okay. >> So, we have made it as >> minimally
>> changed to not >> flag anything. >> Yeah. >> But still meet the requirements of the protections that must be updated. >> Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. >> What is the timeline on Senate Bill 180? Doesn't it if we don't have any hurricanes, are we clear at some point?
>> July one of 27 right now. >> So, a whole year. July of 27th. From the way I understand it, July July 1 of 27 is when it actually resets, but I don't know that we can make >> I thought it was a year after the last hurricane.
>> Yeah. >> If there is, it could be later, >> right? But since when was our last hurricane? >> None last year. >> We looked it up and it was it has something to do with January 27th. So, I mean, we'll all know when Senate Bill
180 is no longer a thing, but >> okay. >> Um, it'll it'll be well known through the planning. >> Okay. I thought it was tied to the date of the last emergency declaration or maybe some time period after the last emergency declaration.
>> Right. That was July 1st. And then anything after that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> All right. Okay, this is a public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Brand commission for action. >> Move to approve.
>> Approve. >> I'll second. >> Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Unanim citizens participation. I don't have any requests. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak to the commission? >> And thanks Eileen and Adam.
>> Seeing no one, we'll go on to other items. Um, approve settlement agreement. Mr. Park, >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, city staff is requesting commission approval of resettlement agreement between the city of Sanford and Mikey International Group LLC and
Solid Planet LLC resolving the dispute arising from historic preservation board's denial and subsequent appeal on the Florida statute 70.51, the [snorts] law, the Florida Land Use and Environmental Dispute Resolution Act.
>> Okay, I I stared at these pictures. I can't figure out what they're doing other than they're just digging the dirt out so the house looks higher. >> That you took the words right out of my mouth. >> Is that it? >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm just >> the grading to allow the porch to be a
thing. >> Okay. Okay. So, everything around the house is going to go. >> I'm concerned about the statement on 809 Locust where it says, "Per City of Sanford request, there will be a low point at the bottom of the stairs with
no relief for rainwater." Should I be concerned about that, Mr. Attorney? >> Um, it's on the grading plan for 809 Locust. >> The city engineer has reviewed it and have it went through review. uh and the
city engineer reviewed it and approved those plans prior to us bringing it to you today. The the plans were submitted for review by the city and approved. >> Okay. But I I don't understand the statement. Per city of Sanford request, there will
be a low point at the bottom of the stairs with no relief for rainwater. I read that as if the front of your house floods, it's Sford's fault. >> I had the same concern. Yes, sir. Come on up, please.
>> Oh, it is up. >> I represent the applicant here. Um, so the >> I'm sorry. Could you repeat your name, please? >> Uh, yes. Michael Candyotti 2011 East Pine Street, Orlando, Florida. >> Thank you. >> Uh, the low point was created, as you
say, we dug it down to create a vertical relief to create stairs. We're going to put in some new sod uh new soding and the the the retention was identified by city planning to be addressed which we had our engineer go back and they confirmed there will not be any flooding that would result from this additional
downing. There's going to be some overall recontouring of the ground. There is a uh a drop from the property direct to the road as well. >> Okay. So is the regrading just at the steps or is all the way across? going to
be there's going to be a digging of the foothold frontage. >> Okay. All the way across the front >> to allow for the porch. That was originally intended. >> Okay. >> But not along the sides, the front. >> Correct. >> That's correct. The engineers looked at it from the standpoint of water
retention. That was one of the concerns that the city engineer attorney had brought up and and frankly so had I >> and they assured us that this shouldn't be a problem. >> And the interpretation of the of the phrase no relief for That means that there shouldn't be any additional
drainage necessary from that point that the the final point is that but I have not chance to discuss that with them. >> Yeah. So there's no additional relief for rain water from that bottom of the steps. So that bottom step shouldn't have any additional digging down >> poorly worded there.
>> Yes. Agreed. >> Okay. But it will still slope to the street. >> That's the intention. Yes. >> Okay. So based upon the agreement, because all of this is going to be on on record, the design as approved will not
result in the collection of wet rainwater at the front of the property. That rainwater will still pull out into the street. >> Correct. That's my understanding. And that is >> I'm not an engineer, but that's what we >> Well, that's what we're agreeing to. I'm making clarification as to what we're agreeing to. And when it says no uh
relief for rainwater does not mean that we're agreeing to rainwater pooling at that area but in fact it is being engineered in such a manner that the rainwater will pull away from the property. Correct. >> Yes, we can make that amendment to the >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.
>> No problem. >> Any other questions? >> Right. And then I'll bring the commission for action. >> Let the magic happen. Move to approve. >> Second. >> Yeah. Motion a second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? All right. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Second amendment to the sixth participation agreement. Yes. >> I would just include that language that we spoke of in this agreement for prior to execution since everyone is on page with it. Okay.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff recommends city commission approve the second amendment to the sixth participation agreement to provide funding to up to $144,855
to improve the correction action plan approved by environmental protection agency for the former Sanford glass classific glassification gasification plant site. >> Okay, questions or a motion? approved.
>> Second. >> And just for fun, we were talking about this when I was first elected to the commission. >> Oh my goodness. >> So that's why there have been so many 77. >> Yeah, something like that. >> Uh any discussion? >> All in favor?
>> Any opposed? Passion nley. Um sub recipient agreement. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, city staff is recommending the city commission approve the subreant agreement with the Sanford Airport Authority for the management and administration of the $2.8 8 million
grant funds awarded by the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the a protection state and tribal assistance grant to the Sanford Airport Authority for the extension of approximately 6,000 linear feet of water and wastewater
lines along the corridor containing the South Berdell Avenue and Moore Station Road. >> Questions or motion? >> Second motion and second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I any opposed? Passesly. Um, order of condemnations.
>> Mr. Mayor, the commission staff is requesting commission approval of the order of condemnation of the structured location on a single lot addressed as 931 West 11th Street. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion and a second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Question Ansley. Uh, order of nomination. Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, staff is requesting commission approval of an order of condemnation on the structure located on a single lot addressed as 1610 William
Clark Avenue. >> Questions or motion to approve? >> Second. Motion a second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Nly. >> And before we go further, I just want to confirm on the record that there are no property owners present with regard to
931 West 11th Street or 1610 William Clark Avenue. So noted. Thank you. >> Thank you. Resolution 3490. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, me. The commission staff is recommending commission approve resolution 4930 3490 amending the budget and
reallocating funds in the amount of $839,890.60 from the PAS class action settlement as proposed. >> Move to approve. >> Second. Motion a second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I I Any opposed?
Personley. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, staff is recommending the commission approve the procurement of one permanent replacement Caterpillar diesel generator system and two $3,000 amp automated transfer switches from
rain power of St. Augustine for the plants division. This automation will include a prudunk as you pronounce that request to increase the purchase order for by $70,000 for the ongoing rental of backup generator and transfer switches
currently being deployed at the North Water Reclamation Facility. And I apologize. I think I said that wrong earlier. Had the words out of order. >> You're out of order. >> Questions or motion? Move to approve. >> Second. Motion. Second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Resolution 3492. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission staff is requesting the commission approve resolution 3492 amending the city budget in amount of $60,000 and approve the procurement of
services of a of a budget tree service inc. >> Questions or motion? Move to approve. Second. Motion. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any >> opposed? Nley. Resolution 3493. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city
commission, the city staff is requesting approval of resolution 3493 uh for the budget amendment and approval of procurement of the 2026 Toro Z Master 572 in mower. Move to approve.
>> Quotions or motion? >> Move to approve. Second. >> Okay. And it's my understanding that this is the one that was on next year's CIP and we're buying it now. Is that correct? >> Okay. Okay. All in favor? >> Any opposed?
>> Resolution 3494. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Members of the commission, staff is requesting commission approval of resolution 3494 to amend the capital budget in the amount of $35,833 for the procurement of the change order
proposals for fire station 40. questions or motion to approve. >> Second motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Pestanley. And resolution 3495.
>> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of commission staff recommend the commission approve resolution 3495 amending the fisc year 26 budget by 956,190. This amendment will make the 202526 budget total 44
460,335 35,34 citywide >> questions or motion >> move to approve second motion second. Further discussion. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanly. We have an add
on the interlocal with seminal county sheriff. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor's commission staff is requesting the commission approve the interlocal agreement for the use of the semino county sheriff's office training vehicles between seminal county sheriff's office and the city of
Sanford. >> Questions or motion? Move to approve. Second. Motion. Second. Any further discussion? Um, I didn't get a chance to read through all of this. >> The sheriff is going to let us use his training vehicles for um emergency
vehicle operations and for pit maneuvers. >> Okay. >> Um, for free. But if we break something, we have to fix it. >> Fair. In that case, I'm >> We have to approve it for insurance purposes.
>> I like his description. Okay. Do we have a motion, a second? We do. All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> Pass. Nasty. >> City attorney comments. >> I have no comments this evening. Thank you. >> City clerk's report.
>> Uh yes, sir. Just in going back to what we discussed briefly at work session regarding the board appointments. Uh we are missing a few from several of our boards. So, we'll be working over the next two weeks to make sure that we can get those filled so that we don't have
any more uh items not meet qual. >> Okay. Thank you. >> City manager report. >> Yes. Just two items from the work session. One is that we will go ahead and notify the floor of the League of Cities that Commissioner Thomas will be the city's voting delegate at this
upcoming conference. And the commission also indicated that Commissioner Brick will be picking the color for the chambers. So, once you've done that, please let me know. Yes, sir. We'll do. >> That's all. >> Okay. Um, I've got a couple of things. It's
Commissioner, former Commissioner Haney would really appreciate this, but at the airport, there is going to be a Happy Cat Hotel and spa. >> Oh my goodness. >> So, if you are traveling, there will be
a place for you to leave your favorite Elon. Commissioner Mahaney, wherever you are, listen. >> Those of y'all that are familiar with there, it's um years ago there was a um uh motor vehicles. That's where you went and took your driver's test years and
years ago. Okay. >> So, going down Airport Boulevard on the right one. >> Cute. Um, so and I have to apologize on behalf of well not on behalf of the commission to
the commission really um for I completely missed going to the Goldsboro front porch council um banquet Saturday night um and we were given a city of Sanford service award. Commissioner
Wiggins uh accepted this for us in deep appreciation of your unwavering support and dedicated service for 25 years to Goldsboro Front Porch and the entire Goldsport community. Remembering our past and looking to the future. July 11, 2026, Goldsboro Front Porch Council.
>> Very nice. Nice. >> Um I'm going to run through these quick so I'll give you a list later. I was looking at our goals and you know what are what are things we you know just reminding us of a couple of things. One is um fire department master plan
getting to ISO1. Um one is where are we with customer service training? Um are we looking into solar on any of our buildings um in conjunction with the budget? We were going to we wanted to look at um an
outsourcing maintenance contract with ABM or somebody like that. And I know Elizabeth met with us and talked about um the workflow brochures. Just where are we with that? Um and then one other thing, Metro Plan um [clears throat]
is is looking at ebikes. I know Orange County, I think, was looking at an ebike ordinance. The state passed one. The governor vetoed it. um they're looking at um for at least our region to be doing something on eBike safety. Um so I
don't know that we want to do something individually, but let's you know put that on our radar of things to worry about. >> That was almost one of our priorities legislatively. >> Um the the stats on what's happening with those
is is sort of scary in terms of injuries. um they're trying to push something into the schools. I wasn't real thrilled about that because schools already have plenty to do, but unfortunately or fortunately that's where there is a captive audience. Um so
they've actually put together a training program that they can push out through the um the the teaching program that the schools use, Canvas. And um they had really good results with a pilot school in Orange County. They're trying to look [snorts] at doing that. Um,
>> I think that's a really good idea. >> I I think that's a really good idea. The enforcement realm of that uh gets really really tricky and scary. um passing passing any laws or ordinances against that really make their hand the police
officers hands are already handcuffed dealing with the dirt bikes and and and and other things uh and not being able to chase them uh and and cause harm. Uh it just it gets really really muddy. So I think education is is a great way to
go about it. Um much like bike helmets, you know, bike helmets were passed mandatory years ago. A lot of kids still don't. A lot of kids do. >> Mandatory. >> Nope. They're not mandatory. >> Anyway, [clears throat] I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
>> Commissioner Thomas. >> Well, I almost don't have anything. It's not been out for a bit. Uh we did the Liberty Tree dedication that uh a couple of you were also at. That was very nice. Um
yeah, I just got back from Canada. I also shout out to Derek Critzer and Theater West End and to my two favorite citizens who come to every meeting for coming to the show. Um I'm kind of on a depression now. Yeah, they came twice.
You're just glutton for punishment. Uh so yeah, I'm kind of back in catchup mode. So, I think I really that's that's all I have. >> Commissioner Austin, >> how about that? >> Uh, it's been a it's been a few weeks uh since I uh reached out and asked about this and I've heard back from no one and
that uh that disappoints me. I asked about our city uh taking action, being proactive, and maybe uh having a moratorum on data centers. I've not heard back from planning. I've not heard back from the city attorney. have not
heard back from the city manager and uh I'm not happy about that. So I I would once again publicly now instead of trying to do it through email or uh message um I I am concerned uh with what I see
happening across the country. I'm concerned about what our future may involve as far as our leadership at the state level. I think uh we need to look into this. I think Simol County has started looking into it. Commissioner Lawart went to a conference about it. Um
I I think we need to take this serious. Yes. We don't have a lot of locations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm always told that. But then boom, >> a problem pops up >> in our city. >> So, let's just be proactive for the first time, please. And and take this
serious. Um they're just bad. They're bad. I will be attending a workshop at the leadership conference >> leader cities. >> Uh the other >> so is there consensus to move forward with a mortoriium on data centers? >> I support that. >> I support it.
>> Okay. >> Would you want to move forward with it or do you want it as a discussion item? >> I think it the discussion is how to move forward with it. >> Okay. >> Put something together for us to vote on. >> What are we allowed to do per
Tallahassee? do it quick before they do a work. >> Can we say no? >> Yes. >> Oh, >> yes. >> Senate Bill 180, >> but I I'll go ahead and prepare a memorandum for you.
>> 180. >> I don't we couldn't I asked for one on apartments and we couldn't do that. restricted, >> but haven't I seen other places >> other other
memorandum for you, but at first glance that's going to be the major hurdle in this, but you want to know what's a pathway. So, I'll prepare a legal memo for you. >> Well, and I will definitely find out at this workshop in one month. They're having a workshop specifically on data
centers in Florida. >> Right. I' I've just seen municipalities struck down for less >> is is my problem, >> but but I'll prepare a memo just to we have an understanding. All right. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Uh my my my other issue was what I
brought up the other day at the budget session and uh I brought up through uh uh messages. I do not understand the action the city manager took against the public art commission. I do not understand why we are still considering
having so much in a budget next year for them, but yet this year they have been frozen and their funds have been taken away. I want answers. I want I want this discussed at some point. Um I don't know where he gets the authority to overstep
the commission and the will of the commission and the budget set forth by the commission uh without first coming and discussing it with the commission. Um, I also am concerned about uh what what
the real reasons are behind this. I believe it it was to stop us from purchasing a uh piece of art we want to purchase from the land and it actually would be a purchase. Uh I understand staff and city manager are against the
rental program the public art commission signed up for. this would actually be a purchase. But they have reached nothing but roadblock after roadblock after roadblock. And the final roadblock was boom, the city manager all of a sudden
without discussion with them eliminating their budget for the year. Um, and I will and I will submit as I did previously, a good portion of their budget every year goes to the city attorney. So, where where is that money going
since it's not being used uh with having any more uh hearings this year? Um that uh that again is my issue and I again I want answers. I didn't get them still. I thought maybe I would tonight but uh I
thought wrong. >> Commissioner, we can certainly put it on the work session agenda for next meeting. Uh in in short, I thought based on the climate right now, for the city to be spending thousands and thousands of dollars on art when the public is
saying that the cities in the state are not spending money wisely, I thought it would be good to just hold on that for right now. But you unilaterally made that decision after the commission had approved that budget. After the commission had given
the pack orders or or >> they have authority based upon the city manager. >> So it's based on you not the commission. >> When we pass a budget, aren't we telling them what his spending authority is, not
telling them he has to spend it? >> Correct. That's my understanding of >> Okay. Did you freeze any other budgets in the city? >> The hiring freeze? >> No. Did you freeze any other budgets in the city? >> No. >> Did you stop any other spending? Did you stop any travel? Did you stop any
conferences? Did you stop anything else in the city other than public art? >> No. And the reason is I thought that the climate right now was not good for the city to be spending money on art. >> Okay. And how much money was left for them to spend this year?
>> They have some money and plus we're going to be looking at at least rem re um maintenance on the art that's already put up. >> So you you don't even know how much money you saved the city by doing this, but you found nothing else in this city
in the meantime to cut out and save the taxpayers money. >> That was the most glaring. I have uh I have major issues with all of this and that is just me and I'm only one person up here. [snorts] >> I would like to
>> Okay. So the clerk can put it down as a discussion item for the next work session. >> That's all. Right. Commissioner, >> I'd like to commend uh direct department on a great Fourth of July celebration. Um,
my family and I really enjoyed it as always. Um, last Friday, uh, in partners with my again my brothers Mark and Ryan with Picnic Project, the founders, we were able to give out 33,000 lbs of groceries
to 300 plus families to,300 citizens, uh, from the football team to Allen Chapel. um numerous other volunteers were there and uh we were doing it at 105 degrees heat. SPD, thank y'all as well
too, my brothers and sisters. Um again, another great event for the community as a whole and thanking everybody that came together as the mayor has stated Saturday night. Again, wanted to commend uh Go Front Porch on the 25 year
celebration. I want to also u congratulate the recipients that received the awards but most of all Dr. Velma Williams um for God allowing her to have this vision and use her to uh bring this in fruition and
how go front porch has really helped so many men and women not just in the the Goldsboro District 2 area but Sanford area as a whole. And last but not least, um next Thursday after my community meeting, I'll have my sixth annual back
to school event uh in partnership with Simino County Public Schools, uh the three high schools, Simino High, Krms, Lake Mary, uh middle schools, uh the four middle schools in our area, all the elementary schools and different
departments. So if any parents uh grandparents or whomever uh wants to come out after the meeting, I have this information on my website as well. Uh come on out. Please spread the word. We have different departments there to help
our families. That is it. Thank you, sir. Marsh Bre, >> mayor, members of the commission, and to the residents that I um represent, uh, District 1, but you know, the city as a whole, I am really concerned about all of this development that's happening. I
I am the water demand, sewer capacity, fire response, police calls, school impacts, the traffic on 46 alone now, it's one of the main entrances and exits to our city, to our downtown. Um I'm I
don't understand all of the rules that we have that says that we can't have moratoriums. I do understand that we have rules and regulations and things are state uh regulated but we have literally got to start thinking about
tomorrow. Yes, we have capacity today but do we have capacity tomorrow? We are adding more and more and more. 46 is not even recognizable now. You are stuck in traffic on 46. And we keep getting these
traffic reports and saying that yes, this we we can do this and we cannot do that. But when you're actually there, that traffic is backed up. We have all of the lights now. We've done all of the the streetscapes and the medians and everything. However, I am very concerned
about the next 10 years of this city. We've had contradict contradicting presentations stating that we do have water. We may not have water. We are building rapidly and I'm just really concerned about that and I just want to put that on the record. I'm not saying
that I'm against development, but I am just I am very concerned about how quickly we're developing and how much we're putting on these small parcels. Um, I want to talk about this last meeting that we just had. And just to
echo kind of with what Commissioner Austin said, some things really bothered me at that last meeting. When we're up here, I don't believe that we're on trial or that we're we need to be interrogated. If we're bringing something to the commission, if we're bringing something to the city manager
regarding our bosses, which are the people of Sanford, it shouldn't be like I'll give an example. When Patrick was talking about the the what it looks like from the people of the US not being open for business, the bit the uh city hall being closed on that Thursday, it seemed
like he was met with the attack when he's just giving you the report from what he's hearing. And it is the perception of what we have. We are not attacking staff. I'm not attacking the city manager or anyone up here. I'm doing my job as an elected official to
say these are the reports that I am receiving and I'm bringing it to the commission especially because we have limited time to discuss these matters. So when we're bringing it it's to bring it to the discussion because we are responding to our bosses. Another thing
that I did not care for the the city clerk reminded me of where what my job is as an elected official. I am well aware that the city manager manages the employees. I'm also very aware that the city manager answers to the city
commission. And so if I'm bringing things up about the budget or let's do A, B, and C to try to help save jobs to try to help restructure. I don't need to be reminded of what my position is. Let's remember the hierarchy here. I did
I did not appreciate that and I I don't like to see that happen because I'm I'm not I don't check other people and I don't like to be checked up here. That ends my report for district one. >> We're journed. I tried. It didn't work out well.
>> Have a great evening. >> We should put it somewhere. >> I had to do it all. >> And I get to first rehearsal. Oh, by the way, we're going to have you play Headwig's mom. So, you're going to have some lines, too.
>> Okay, then. Not a problem. Art to paint.