Okay. Call to order the um goal with work session for W. Sampler March 28, 2026. Um what you have in front of you is um pretty close to what I'd already sent out. Um few modifications and
clarifications. Um but my proposal of the order and number and the things that we we talk about clearly we can add things as we go. Um, these are the things that either came from last year or that have been mentioned to be talked about. So, if y'all are okay with with
going through it as is, great. If not, um, you got anything they want to change up about it. Okay. And then in behind it in in the same order as the agenda is sort of some
backup information. Um, the first item improving upgrading infrastructure. Um this starts from last year. Um and one of the items we had with the Stewart master plan, which is also in one of the city manager goals. The spreadsheet
is um something that was provided by email a couple of weeks ago just to show here all the things are being done. In terms of the master plan, my thought is we just need this package nicely to be
shared to the commission and the public. a plan and here are all the things in it. >> And I'm not sure there's a lot we need to talk about that other than say we would like to get that done. >> Yeah. >> Very clearly indicate what we're doing,
where we are, and keep it up to date. >> Um, I did add just a couple items to the agenda. On the first one, should we major infrastructure projects? Should we talk about them all or is most of that much
out of our hands? >> I took them all off because I thought we are >> pretty much out of our hands. >> Yeah, it's not. We did what we needed to do and now it's >> okay. >> In their hands unless you unless there's something >> it's not infrastructure. >> It's not infrastructure.
Okay. And then on the last one for the planning department, Yeah, that's something y'all don't know anything about that idea. And we're not going to talk. I'm just going to show it and see if you want it as open. >> Okay. >> Gotcha.
>> Okay. >> All right. So, um then the next thing just to review from last year as I was going through last year is one of the things we added about was outsourcing. And so, here is a report on outsourcing based on our
requested last year. Um, I don't know if the rest of the commission had sustained this before or not. I think you just sent it to us the night before last, right? >> Most of the stuff I had went through here. >> I looked over >> I didn't know if you had seen it before then. >> No, I had not seen it before then.
>> Okay. >> I looked over it and I think some of it is a little bit of a fluff. I still think outsourcing some of these things uh is is going to be imperative. Uh coming soon such as
>> What do you mean such as? >> Well, you said outsourcing some of these things. I mean you had identified from >> Well, we I previously tried to get uh the city to use a u a company that uh handles everything for
Winter Park, handles everything for um I can't think of the other cities right now. Handles everything for several cities. I'm talking uh facility maintenance I'm talking
um I want to say yard maintenance but uh >> I'm not I'm not here yet. >> Are you talking about when they um >> it was sort of like a energy was based on the energy >> energy efficiency >> and we would pay them
>> and then they would take care of red doing all that. Yeah. >> And we got their report and then we had to look at other companies and then we decided not to do it at all. Yeah, it went through the uh good old financing thing over there and uh they
brought in another company, I think Honeywell um and they decided it was too much money to spend to try to save money and make us energy efficient. Uh I still not happy with that decision. I still don't understand why we're not
trying to be more energy efficient. Um, and I don't understand why we're not trying to outsource some of this stuff. That would take the burden off of our payroll, the burden off of our cost of servicesing
again. I think I think there was some hesitation of I don't know just >> yes I remember there was a fairly goodsized upfront cost >> and we're the general thought was why
are we going to pay them to do this if we want to do this we could just do it and we don't I think the the outsourcing part um we never got the outsourcing part that I agree with is if you have someone else doing it, they're focused on getting it done and that's what they
focus on. Whereas we can say, "Oh, we don't need to pay somebody to come through and switch change out light bulbs." We can do that ourselves, but that means somebody needs to be paying attention to it to change out the light bulbs. >> We never got past the energy efficient part. We never explored the rest of it.
I'm talking uh janitorial here. um the upkeep of the uh good grief, yard maintenance, for lack of a better term. The flower um the flowers, the >> mulch,
>> a lot of the flowers and stuff that is outsourced. >> Well, but that company would do >> Okay. >> Um >> So, you mean bringing it all into one? >> Yeah. >> Even the stuff we're already doing, sort of bring it into one. Well, not necessarily some of the stuff we already
do, but they they could do it all if we wanted them to. But at any rate, um >> take away jobs from my employer. >> Um it might it might take away a few. >> Um and unfortunately, that's kind of part of
where where we need to start thinking, I believe. Um >> and even some realities. >> Yeah. even even maybe positions aren't replaced as people leave. Does that make sense? >> Yeah.
>> Um so that's something else uh where you know over time and you as we do a lot we allocate positions from one spot to another. Um because let's be honest, I I still think we are underst staffed in some of our departments.
And so if we could free up some physicians uh and possibly save money, I mean, that's the goal. Um then we then we could uh allocate those positions elsewhere that are more needed.
Um >> if we No, no, no. You're fine. I think that if if if our superintendent, if our department heads, if we managed a little bit more closely, of course I agree that we do need to outsource some things, but if we
did some cross trainining, cross department things when we know hurricane season is coming, the um like the the fall of the leaves that just happened and we needed so many people to be um cleaning our um our sewer drains and stuff like that. if we were able to move
people around. I I I've noticed not just only as a resident but as an employee and when I did the, you know, the tour. Uh we have a lot of people on >> one or two jobs versus I I watched a hole being repaired the
size of this table and it took eight people to do it. Um and it took all day with people, you know, and I'm not saying that RCD employees do not work hard. I please do not not I don't want that to be said but I do think that management isn't done. I saw a
superintendent come out kind of watch but there's eight people on one job that took like seven hours and that made zero sense to me why we needed two people to smooth the gravel out and then another person came and then they measured it and then the other person was on the the
the big crane and did it when that could have been at the most a three-person job where it did not need to be eight people. And then during that time, we waited for a truck to bring additional gravel and we just sat around. Not let me change that. Not that they sat
around, but it was just if you allow that to happen, then that's what's going to happen. If we had a little bit more management and we said, okay, we're going to, you know, split this up. You only need three people on this job and on this job. And then we made it known that, okay, we're doing this because we're trying to keep your jobs. We're
trying to keep you employed, but I'm I'm only going to do what I'm allowed to do. And if my superintendent or my boss or whatever allows me to have eight people on the job, then I'm a chill for eight. You know, those are things that I think we can do. Parks and recreation does a
really good job. I'm seeing them, you know, uh, spread out, but we can do that throughout the departments. when we know hurricane season is coming, let's say, let's move some parks people off to storm water and get all of the drains clear because it's more than just downtown. I mean, uh, Patrick district
is full of trees. Claudia's district is we I'm saying these 100 year old trees. And I don't want it to be just about trees, but I'm saying if we did a little bit more, and you hate to say it, micromanaging and better use of our staff,
you know, that might help. Not saying that anybody isn't doing their job. >> I don't even think baby you wrong for saying it it would be micromanaging just better use of the same. >> Uh if if uh if you got eight people standing around and and it probably could have just been three and you still
seven hours. There you go. right there with some of >> well I I uh I I don't know all the specifics but I do know that unfortunately because of risk management because of
policy and procedures and what looks like people not doing their job that actually might just be their job is to watch and and they're making sure you're doing it right or you're safe and they see something wrong they they stop stop you. >> Yeah. Not saying nobody's not doing job.
>> I know. So, so what sometimes what may appear is too many people. They actually may have assignments that we >> are not aware of. So, I don't want us to >> when when they come came to put my um attached me to the city quarter which meant they had to
>> dig and tap and come across the street. Mhm. Mhm. >> Um I went out and and talked with them and you know was sort of I sort of had the same feel like there are a lot of people out here but okay >> they each you know and >> and I don't know how cross painting how
much cross training can be done but you know the guy that you're paying to to use the tractor >> you're paying him more than the guy you're paying to use the shovel. >> True. True. >> And so do we want to pay the tractor guy to also do the shovel? Now, if it's two people and they're just sitting there,
>> there's probably some efficiencies. But, as I watched them, that's what I saw. You know, they they had different skills. The guy with the shovel did not know how to tap the water line. >> Right. Right. >> And so, this the person who knew how to do that came and did that. >> Right. >> So, >> so the the training, but I don't know
how much you get to that. >> Right. >> But our forklift guy can't smooth out the the gravel. I'm just saying let's just let's use our our time more wisely and let's think of government almost like a business as well because I don't want anybody to be fired or let go. I
went through that with Simino County and was laid off and then when I came immediately over here the the city didn't fire people but they had to do furlows and and and um you know different things like that. I just think that I I understand what both Patrick
and and the the mayor is saying, but we've got to be like strategic in how we use the people that we have. And yes, I know eight people might have something to do, but if you're only going to watch for two hours, then maybe you could go do something else until it's that I mean, like how
>> because it's not like we have enough managers to be there watching them every day, >> right? But there's not there are not only superintendents, but you have crew chiefs. I mean, you on a truck, you have people who are assigned for different things, but let's maybe let's split up those eight and make it four and then we get a little bit more done with the
people that we have. Not saying that people aren't doing their job, but if this is my only my only duty is just to make sure that something doesn't fall. >> You don't have to keep worrying about baby saying talking about not doing their job. We just trying to find a way to be more efficient. It is what it is.
>> You you brought that up and we just trying to find a way. Well, can we put it into a goal? What is it we would like to see done? >> Using staff more efficient. Yeah. >> Wow. >> To increase productivity.
>> Yeah. We need a a smart goal. You know, I brought that acronym to Loheed Martin like 20 years ago. Now it's everywhere. I mean, if they took one specific issue and they said, "Okay, Commissioner Britain was talking about this matter.
How could we effectively do this position? I mean, this this job instead of eight, maybe six. >> Mhm. >> How could I mean, you could eliminate two. >> I mean, there are times when two people might be out just sick, but you still have to get the job done." So, how could
we look at that and say, "Okay, maybe I hear what the commission is saying. instead of eight, how could we do it with two? And if we really want to show out, how can we do it safely with four? >> Is it a case of more cross trainining between the workers? >> Mhm. >> But then that comes to we don't have to
worry about losing jobs either, >> right? That's what I'm trying to say. >> If again, we're not just saying we're just doing something to put a band-aid on, >> right? >> But if they are able to do it and we can get it done without bringing other folks in, >> right, >> we already got them in house. Well, I will say this. Um,
Brent uh inherited uh a lot of issues and he and I talked recently. Um, he is uh finally working through
uh some personnel issues as well. >> And uh moving >> he's gotten some push back personnel issues. he has moving some people around, maybe changing some titles, maybe some people are capable of more and some people maybe
aren't. So, it uh to his credit, he's he's working through that and this is probably something you will see improve as he has the time to work through all of his >> Yeah, we talked about that too, me and Brenton.
>> But we're not we're not going to see it now. But >> right, >> good thing to look forward to, >> right? There there's some recent changes that I think are really positive. >> Um and and there'll be some more uh but uh it takes time. Uh it takes time to to
learn everything this city has and and doesn't have and and he's had some big uh hurdles pop up in his way along along the way of learning. And one more anecdote about it. >> During a hurricane cleanup, I questioned
why why is a truck with four guys going to clean gutters with, >> you know, there not many that that many gutters at one stop. And the the response was basically, well, that team has one truck, >> you know. So, there's no other way to get them out
there, >> right? >> So, >> but they recently came through my neighborhood. Uh, and I don't know how many people there were, but they literally hopped out of that truck and it was uh near an intersection and they all went in four different directions and we're cleaning
>> four different uh inlets at the same time. So, >> it's not that our staff isn't doing the job. I think that we could just manage it it better. And I also think that sometimes we need to treat every day like a natural disaster. Sometimes we only move fast when okay, you know, we
got to go a storm, right? our our our constituents are angry, you know. I mean, I I saw stuff moving during the Trayvon Martin time like I had never seen before. All of a sudden, we had big screens and and people were moving fast. I think that sometimes we need to treat
every day like a natural disaster. Like this stuff done. >> Treat every day like a natural disaster. >> Not sure how I like that staff will survive that. >> Okay. Anything else on that? >> Did we close on outsourcing?
>> Because you mentioned >> Yeah. Well, I think Yeah, that's the other one. We need to What is it we want done? Sounds like we want to come back and >> and re-evaluate >> what outsourced, but what we should tell them what what do we think can be outsourced?
>> Yeah. When you talked about the upfront costs being high, we're outsourcing now, so there had to be high upfront costs when we >> Well, well, I tell you, we went to the Lou Gardens fall plant sale the other day. And ABM had that's who they use and
I think that's city of Orlando, right? Or is that one or part? >> The Gardens. It's Orlando, I believe. >> There were ABM employees everywhere that that's the company that we talked >> we brought in. Um they and they're local and they they handle everything. They
had that that's you know that's who takes care of those gardens there. Um but uh >> one thing to consider for outsourcing though and I learned this when we went um we privatized garbage service. The
cost savings is benefits that the employees don't get >> because we were paying our guys benefits. Mhm. >> The company that was taking over wasn't going to pay them benefits and that was basically the cost difference. >> That and we had let all our trucks run into the ground and we're going to have
to have a huge um capital. Well, equipment u but um >> equipment savings is is definitely >> but I think you know in terms of I don't look at outsourcing as a way to save because of bodies because of that
because what you're saving I mean then you're just tossing it off on you know somebody else is going to have to cover benefits somehow it usually comes back to the public. >> Yeah. >> But if you can get an increase in efficiency. >> Well so I know like >> Yeah. But don't I mean don't be lost in
the fact that uh I think what is it 28% we pay towards retirement for every employee. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But >> that's a huge chunk of a savings right there. >> Yeah. So, but those people are not going to have that retirement plan and so when
they, you know, are at retirement age, who's supporting them >> anyway. >> And is it a case of you get what you pay for, which means maybe if we're trying to find efficiencies, it's not efficient. >> Well, >> well, but my point was it's ABM taking
care of blue gardens. It's pretty damn efficient. It looks better than anything we have. Well, they have a lot more money than we do. >> I don't know. >> Okay. So, what would we do? We have specific things we want to evaluate for outsourcing or do we want to just
revisit the analysis that we've done before? What is it that we want done? >> I'm not a fan of outsourcing, but I do I'm listening to my fellow commissioners that have more experience than that. I my whole take on it since you're just asking is this let's let's re-evaluate
for efficiency but I don't know what the true benefits of of outsourcing is >> well so um >> cost period I I don't think there's any other reason to outsource >> right cost >> so
better service >> yes really okay >> but the p the private sector traditionally does everything better than the government. >> Not when they're working for the government. >> Uh >> yeah. >> No. >> I mean, look at some of the look at some
of the outsourcing we have for mowing >> and >> Yeah. But see, I don't consider that outsourcing. Those are contracts. We're paying we're doing contracts. We don't follow up on them. Again, it's followup. It's micromanage. Mhm. >> We don't call those people out until I
raise hell or you raise hell and then the person we're raising hell at raises hell at them. >> Um we Yeah. So I don't really consider that outsourcing. If you if you bring in a company that that handles stuff for you and you're
you're seeing trash not being cleaned up or vacuuming not being done or uh you know cars not being taken care of, what whatever this the the matter is, you address that and there's a contract and you can
eliminate the contract. But we never even eliminate the contract for these mowers that don't mow. >> You know what I mean? I just brought some of it back in the house. >> Okay. >> But >> anyway, what's >> Okay. >> What's the action item here?
>> Well, so >> should we explore any areas that we're not outsourcing now that would be potentially beneficial? So I mean in my mind it's are we re-evaluating what we've already done in terms of looking at outsourcing with ABM or whoever or
are there specific things we would like to cons have considered for outsourcing? >> I think everything's on the table. Um and and and you're up for re-election. You're you're heading out the door. Y you're up you're up for re-election.
>> Yep. Um, you and I are here for a couple more years. We could be facing and I think we are facing some really tough choices. >> So, >> yeah, >> at least taking a look at outsourcing, at least taking a look at what that
might offer us, I think, is smart. >> I agree. >> And we don't have to do anything with it if we don't like it. uh if it comes down to the bottom line of you know maybe people would be lost and they wouldn't be absorbed by the company or whatever those are hard
choices we'd have to take at that time >> but it's >> but I think we have some really hard choices coming ahead of us >> um they're going to have a special session on this property tax thing >> I think it's going to go to the voters at some point >> there's that potential so that's why I
say we have to keep educating them >> right is We come up to them to vote. >> Do we lose 11 million? Do we lose 10 million? Do we lose 100 million? I don't know. >> We can't lose 100 million. >> We have source. Do we have the staff to
investigate potential outsourcing that we're not doing now? Can we do that inhouse? >> Well, I mean, yes. I mean that we would just be asking them to do something else other either it's not do this while
you're doing this or do this while you're doing this. >> Yep. >> Well, I don't want to pour more thing on the on the man. >> We're going to be doing more of that with everybody. >> Well, but I I think Norton and Craig, >> but during the budget process would be the ideal time, I would think, for
departments to look at are there things that you can outsource >> are there places where outsourcing could be done? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. and consider it honestly. >> Well, that I just go with the consensus of the commission. >> Okay. So, make that part of the budget
process, >> right? >> Why am I so hungry? >> I'm sorry, but I can't eat that sugar. >> I can't either. >> And I'm high. >> Yeah. >> Did you say you're high? my blood sugar.
>> Oh, >> I have a peanut butter chocolate protein bar. Would that help you? >> No, I have a protein shake. I'll probably drink in a few minutes. >> All right. Um, are there under the of infrastructure
projects that I have there? Um, are there any that we want to pull out and say we need to focus on that this year as opposed to we want to focus on all of them? I think one of the problems we had last year with this process was we had 40 things
>> um that we wanted done and >> we I would love to discuss the marina, the civic center and the botanical gardens. >> Okay, >> discuss about the marina. >> Okay, so the marina I know that like all of the the FEMA and you know all of the
the stuff, but is there anything that we could do in the meantime just for appearance? So like for example, it just looks it's just horrible out there because the posts are leaning, you know, things are underwater. We totally get
that. We're waiting on funding, but in can we just lift the post so it just doesn't look so abandoned out there. There are small things that we might be able to do just for the appearance and then yes, we're working on it. We're waiting on funding this and that and all
of the pieces of the puzzle has has to get there. But what could we do in the meantime? >> Well, so a couple things. I did speak with Craig the other day. >> I asked if we can start looking for other funding sources.
>> Uh let's quit waiting on the government. Let's let >> move ahead. >> What what else what else is there for us to But but here's here's the answer to part of the answer to your question. There's some serious dredging that has
to be done. >> There's a ton of I guess it's sand that washed in from the hurricane >> that we got to we got to get removed. >> That's the million dollars that FEMA has paid.
>> That's major work. It's it's it's outsourced. Our employees can't do that. And then those pilings pylons pylons pil >> gosh I can't talk today. pilings can be uplifted, taken out, removed, replaced.
>> So that that I don't know if that answers your question or photo shoot, but >> I'm not sure and I'm not sure if you can pull them out without the permitting. >> No, not pull them out. Okay, let's just say I had a photo shoot and I just need to just make it look a little cleaner. It doesn't mean that I'm going to clean the entire house, but I'm going to put
some socks behind the pillow >> because this is our beautiful selling point. there's no way to stand some things up >> to make things look cleaner >> um instead of you know I know we can't pull things out and there's stuff that
again that cost a lot but what could we do on the surface keep it surface so that it appears to to to be more presentable is there a way to look at it like that I think they can do they can look at that I mean I don't think we
have the answers we don't have the staff for that either we don't have staff that that does water work. We don't have staff that gets in uh we don't even have the equipment that gets gets staff safely in and out of those areas out there. >> Okay.
>> Well, I do remember there was a time when we we were we were doing the riverw walk uh the ribbon cutting and there was so much um pollution, so much stuff in where our little bridge was or whatever and we had staff to get in boats and do
that. Not saying that we need to have staff and do that, but because it was a special occasion, Semino County was coming out there, St. John's River Water Management and our other public service providers, we were like, "Okay, we got to get all of this crap out, you know, let's clean this out." And we were able to do that. So, I'm asking if we can do
small things like that to make it appear better without it costing, without us going through HR, with all of that. Of course, that is going to happen, but what little bit could we >> Okay, so we can we can check with with um Craig and Chris. Mhm. >> Um and see
what if anything can we do to dress it up? >> Is there an outsourcing that we could use temporary just for just just the you know summertime is coming. Everybody's walking that river with front. We've got lots of events that are happening. We've got this new amphitheater that's there.
How could we just put some lipstick on it? >> Well, it's not there yet. >> Well, you >> All right. Otherwise, and um I'm working um had an initial contact with Senator
Moody's staff and we're um have gone back and forth with some information to provide them which that'll go out Monday. >> Ask ask her to their decision is now due in June. We're gonna ask her to push
them and if not enough be my money what can she find us. >> So we are taking that step. >> Are we comfortable with what kind of information we're putting out to the public and when do we have kind of a >> we talked about that and I think there
was we were going to update what's on the our website and make sure there's a link from our website to the marino website. >> Fixed. >> It is. >> Yeah. I'm just I'm thinking of more >> but the up the last update on our website was I think from last October.
>> Yeah, the links are there now. >> Okay. >> But more active communication through social media, maybe on a scheduled basis that says if it's been 3 months and nothing's changed, I I would still want to say nothing's changed. We're still in this process
with the marina waiting for funding. Well, I think um we lose the battle of PR no matter what we do, as the mayor has pointed out a couple times. >> Um but we can't stop trying. >> I
I think I think we need a list of all the different entities that we have to go through to get that project done. I don't think people understand it. We just can't understand. >> Huh? They don't want to understand. >> Well, that's fine. But
>> the 13 of them are going to bash us no matter what. And I I know who they are. >> Yeah, we all do. >> And it's that, you know, no matter what we put out there, >> those 13 people are going to
>> something. Now, the other 68,87, >> you know, maybe getting something out of it. >> Well, I don't know. Uh feel I feel like if you don't keep trying, what are you doing? >> I'm with you, Val. >> Yeah, I think I'm I'm pass with uh
Commissioner Austin. We should because guess what? There are a lot that do believe in what we're doing. And when you give them more information, be able to stand on it. People are going to follow what they want to follow regardless. I don't care if we put it right there and we tell them it's blue,
they still want to say it's red. But to the ones that do believe in what we're doing, it's great to have the information there for them to see. >> Package it right though. Yeah, it's it's I mean I do get that you're gonna have the naysayers, but we can't give people a platform.
>> You got to package it right because we do have Yeah. already said about 13 or whatever, but you do have well-educated people who are also complaining because it's not packaged well. And I agree with them. It's not packaged well. the
information gives it leaves lots of room for you to to tear it down or not look at it in the positive way because of the packaging. >> Well, >> it's all about the narrative. What you put out there, how you put it out there, and when you put it out there, while
while we're experiencing something negative, the next day, you don't go and say, "Well, here's the marina. Well, I've got a hundred people now who are pissed off about something that happened elsewhere, and I'm just going to use this as an opportunity. It's all about
just navigating our social media. >> I wonder. >> Very true. >> I had this I I made this comment the other day when someone was attempting to attack us. Um wonder I wonder how we paint the picture
that we have multiple people working on multiple issues. Uh you know, oh well you guys are worried about the marina. What about this? Well, we we actually have somebody taking care of that and this at the same time.
>> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Why are you spending $6 million on the marina when you got homeless people? >> Yeah, >> we actually >> Why aren't you spending that money on the sewer plant? >> But then >> but why are you spending money on the homeless people when we got this marina you need to fix? >> Exactly.
>> But we but we also I I'm not sure we we have educated the public well enough on what we actually are supposed to be doing here. >> There's there's a limited amount of what we are supposed to be doing. we do way more than what we're supposed to do.
>> So maybe we promote once it's really up and fully functioning a dashboard and we put that in social media and this is where you go to find out all the projects we're working on and what their status is. >> True. But but I also even like some of the roads and some of the projects have
been done. We get blamed for DOT crap. You know, we get blamed for what the county's done on celry. >> We get blamed for the price of the eggs. So it >> maybe occasionally putting out the map of streets and who maintains each street. >> Well, here's the thing, y'all, and I I
respect everybody, but this table, we already do a lot. There are some things that other people who are getting paid to do this should be doing. You shouldn't be having trying to figure out communications. You do know what your constituents want to hear and then you
have to come back and clean it up. But let's just be honest. I need some people and and I'm not picking on anybody, but I need individuals who do this 24/7 to actually do that. So, I'm not trying to figure out how I can better communicate with my constituents when
I'm already putting out 30 fires over here. >> Well, no, but that's what I'm talking about. We when I'm talking about this, I'm talking about people in this building need to need to do a better job. >> Did we replace Nico yet? I don't think
we have Monday. >> How about that? >> And I believe she came from iHeart Radio. >> Oh, cool. >> All right. Is that a good thing or >> I don't. >> We'll find out.
>> We might have fellow friends. >> That's good. I think that goes with the department heads too because when I had a communication um it was just saying okay well that's the information I'm getting from department heads. So if that's what we
need to you know request from our city manager that they get better information so that our communications office can put out better stuff but it has truly been lacking. Okay. So, there was the media
plan that the attorney and Lisa were putting together. We need to find out where they are on that. We need to figure out what our social media strategy is. >> But I think that plan has more to do about what we should be saying. >> I thought it was.
>> No. Yes. It was >> the back part. Yes. That for our the conversation with us. Yes. But the other part of that is what each department is supposed to be doing in terms of sharing with um the media department. >> Are you sure? >> Yes. >> When I read and it it felt like
>> it felt like it was us >> cuz I don't read the next page then >> maybe I got maybe I didn't like what I was reading. I stopped yelling at social media. Well, it's the >> because there was all there was stuff about, you know, how the departments are
supposed to feed the information >> um and how they're supposed to identify, oh, this is something that should be passed on. >> Yeah, >> that's just the part I remember. Yeah, >> I think department managers do it every
day and so they don't even think >> to think to give it to social >> and that was the point of that um Lindsay and Lisa were making. >> Yeah, they just that's their job. They do it seven days when they need >> but I don't think that's their job. I
think >> that's not important. They would never even >> you a pipe break. You get out of this building and you talk to your talk to your department heads. You ask what they're what's going on. >> Okay. But a pipe breaks and they're
focused on fixing the pipe. They're not focused on >> Oh, we should contact communications and give them information that they can share. >> I'm sure they contact this guy. >> Yeah. >> This guy could feed it to communications. >> That's they let somebody know that
there's a a pipe break, don't they? >> Yeah, >> I agree. But that's an extreme circumstance because they do have to get that message out and they know that. >> But that >> from what I remember of that conversation, that was part of it. We
still making sure those connections were made and if it's, you know, if it's the city manager's job to identify those things, great. So, we only have one person to to focus on. I don't want to go too far down a rabbit hole, but we're still in the same calendar year because this this these
goals are for next calendar year, right? >> These are our current goals. We're going to start these immediately. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We We're still coming out of the stink, right?
>> Mhm. And the stink went on and on and on and on before we actually communicated with anybody about what the stink is, where it's coming from, what we're doing. So, let's not get let's not let's not forget that. >> I don't think we should forget that.
>> Well, no, but everybody knew in this building, everybody knew it was stinking because it was right here >> and nobody in this building thought to communicate with the public about it at all. I did and then I got my then all of a
sudden we had to have a meeting about what we're saying social media. >> That's my point there is >> apartment heads are great but goodness gracious people in this building knew it.
Um and we we did nothing to address it. It was almost like our heads were in the sand which really troubled me. I'd rather >> be in the sand than in the sewer. >> All right. So that covers the marina. >> Um, civic center you said you wanted to
talk about. >> Yes. So I still don't believe that we're packaging the civic center. Well, I mean, of course, yes, it is booked out, but there I there's still like like minor things that we can do to showcase it. I don't think that it it I think we
should have put some money into staging it, showing her. You're not talking infrastructure. You're talking >> marking. Well, I guess that is infrastructure, too, because the they they have tried to do the the lights on the the the top. I still see I know these things cost money, but the the the
roof, the ceiling, like the different panes, there's patches and stuff like that. It's an architectural beauty, I guess. I don't care for it, but it is still our civic center. Um, and to me it, you know, every time we start talking about light things that we
can do to upgrade it other than what the CRA is doing, then an air condition, the malfunctions, and we have to spend more money on that. But I still don't think that the civic center is marketed as well as it could be as far as talking
about the um Well, I I guess I don't need to talk about that because we're saying infrastructure. Okay. >> Mhm. >> I I've said since I got here, we do not market our facilities well at all. >> I don't think anybody knows about Betty Smith and what you can do there, the
Civic Center and what you can do there, etc., etc. So, we do need to market uh our facilities better. I was shocked to find out the civic center has no heating. >> Mhm. So even if we marketed it better,
I'd be scared to rent it out in the winter. >> Well, but that >> for a major event >> that but that's some of our our issues that we have is because it's always about the what if and in government I know we have to have to think about that. But I mean even if you look on our
website, you don't really see what the building would look like if you use half of the facility. If you use the whole facility and it's it's completely decorated. if you if you only use the exterior of it. We don't really even show how beautiful it is just for our our seniors. Um I think the landscaping
could could use a little bit more. Um I have seen some of the the artwork that's there, but it is one of our our biggest facilities that we have and I think just a little bit more elbow grease uh would go a long way um with that
building. Yeah. >> I mean, it is booked out, so we can't just say, you know, hey, you know, that >> Well, and then we get complaints that we charge too much >> even though we don't. >> Yeah. >> And then we're asked to wave the fee for things or to sponsor help sponsor the
event that's being held there because it costs too much to rent it. >> But it has increased. But has it increased gradually and appropriately? >> Yes. >> Okay. But every city has a well, not every city, but most people most cities have a civic center or a large event
center and and they market it to be a a beautiful place. And I just think that we we could use just a little bit more of our civic center since we're not getting rid of it and we don't have a lot of money to really invest in it like we like we want to. But um and I'm not
going to talk too negative to about it because I really love what we did with the the park on the inside. It is green. It is beautiful. The tree, the the new um tables and chairs. It's lovely. I would love to see, you know, more activity in that space. I think the CRA
did an excellent job with the um the windows and stuff. I just I I we could just use a little bit more marketing or or or how we package it together and not just a a wedding, baby shower or family reunion, but events that come here and
so that they stay at our hotels and they eat at our restaurants and things like that. If you're visiting the civic center now, you're eating what you bring there, you know. >> Okay. So, I've got that. But in terms of infrastructure on the market on the
civic center because I have suggested we go we start going for the historic preservation grant to um >> what happened to that? I thought we were doing that. >> What do you mean what happened to it? >> I thought we talked about that a couple years ago. We were working on >> We didn't Julie's, if I remember
correctly, Julie's suggestion was not to go for it until we had done some of the deferred maintenance. >> Okay. And so now he thinks we're at the point. The problem is the state is probably not giving out >> those grants, but it's worth know. And
we can also do um >> legislative appropriations. We can look for other things. The question is, is that something we want to push out there? You know, you know, let's get this done as one one of our key things because we have a lot of things to work on.
I mean, to me, it's, you know, >> fixing picking that up will lead to what you want, I think. >> And this is a little nit, but when you're sitting up in the front in there and looking at those panels underneath the stage, those need to be replaced. >> Yeah.
>> They're disgusting. >> Well, not. >> Okay. So, is moving forward with >> trying to get >> Yes. >> the historic >> Yes. Yeah. >> part of it done. Okay. And then you want to talk about botanical garden.
>> Yes, that is my baby. I love the idea of having the botanical gardens at the museum, increasing traffic to the museum. What I love about the botanical gardens is it can grow with us. Um Patrick just talked about Lou Gardens. Um you watch these things grow native
plants. You've got the master gardener program. You've got organizations nonprofit and for-profit who want to be a part of it. I'm meeting on April 1st to uh with city staff about putting the sidewalks through um the the the trees that would connect from our amphitheater
to the proposed Lake Corolla um upgrades. >> Uh is that with the leftover CRA money? Yes. I talked to Charles about that that >> um so >> I think they're going to have some money to jump start it. >> Yeah. Once once that comes in, then the the the nonprofit organizations and even
myself um as a commissioner, I I haven't had any ask of businesses of uh public private partnerships, any of that because I've been focused more on district 1. And even when I ran my election, I did not go to corporate, you know, places and ask for funding. This
year, I'm going to do a lot more ass. And that ass would be for the botanical gardens. um with those sidewalks coming in there, it'll be more easier to say, okay, this organization, this Fortune 500 company can sponsor this area or these benches. And then, you know, as it
grows, then possibly the gate, you know, going around it, maybe um you know, it it costs for you to get into every other garden. Um then that way it will be able to maintain itself. Um Sanford has a lot of wonderful things. We really do. even
though we hear a lot of complaints, but it is a beautiful place to live, work, and play. Um, but we want to add some things that you can also see and and do other just other than just eat and drink. Um, what are other reasons that you visit here other than an event? And
um I love our history. I love the museum. And I think that botanical garden um would really work. And I believe that that space adjacent to the museum has been underused. It's just, you know, I think maybe the parks and
recreation does the egg hunt and then Breijit does a really good job with her reenactments there. Um, and I just think that that if we could get behind those organizations, which we are now, um, with hopefully this leftover CRA money, um, with building that botanical
gardens, that's something that is a legacy that will grow with us. That's my stance on that one. Well, you have to remember Lou Gardens started with a home on that property and a and a man who >> Yeah, it was his garden
>> who designed it and set it up and so it >> it and it's not owned by the city. I >> It took a longit took a long time for that. >> I know. And we're starting >> and we don't have the space that Lou had. Um
>> No. So we don't have to have that goal either. >> That's not it. It's we corolla is beautiful but I mean we've all seen what parks and recreation did for you know what when we thought we had $2 to spare and I love that idea of of beautifying
that area and then also the increased traffic to the museum. We do not get the the traffic like we like we would like. I sit on the museum. You have people who are very dedicated to it. Um, shoot. I had to fight with um code enforcement just to get the we're
open flags and then turning that into government speech so that we could have the the flags that say that we're open. >> I don't think I don't think we have any business putting any money into a botanical garden when we have so many other needs
>> on this city. >> We wouldn't be putting anything in it. I'm saying let's get behind organizations who want to do the right space. Okay. >> Right. We offer this space and we say okay you guys want to do that if you can provide the funding if you can get the the sponsorships for that then yes we
agree that it's a good idea. I don't think we have a quarter to spare at all for >> but remember remember >> uh once it's done it does become our problem. It does become a cost factor to us. >> That's why we would have to let it grow
and then you could charge for that. So, and then you also have to think of like the master gardener programs and stuff like now this doesn't mean that it's guaranteed, but we don't want to say no to these because the possibility of it may not work. >> Um, but I I do know the sidewalks have
already been talked about. >> Um, and I don't think people still understand what we're trying to accomplish with Lake Corolla. Well, I went back and looked at the Lake Corola contract or that whole $5.4 million
thing. 2 something million is the seaw wall. >> The wall is it's a massive undertaking. It's 30 32 feet deep. >> They're bringing in those panels. >> Yeah. >> Again, >> I kind of want to be here to watch it.
It's going to have to be brought in by cranes, I think, and lowered in there. It's going to be >> That's where the social media comes in. >> Yes. Yes. See, but we don't that's not that's not us that should be out there trying to relay that message. It we had to come in there and clean it up and
say, "But but but but no, it's this and that." And then I had to call Brady and then I'm like, "Hey, give me some different pictures. Give me some more information. Let me highlight this and and break it down." But anyway, back to theical gardens. The sidewalk is the first part. I'm not saying that the city
needs to put funding into it and let's build a million-doll botanical garden. I'm saying we're starting towards it and let's just say, okay, we think that it's a good idea. Um, if we're starting with the sidewalks, the commission agrees with that. If they're going to get some benches and they've got Wayne Dench to
support it, yes, we support that. And as it grows, then it grows, but not saying that the city needs to turn out this big master plan and we're paying for it. Okay. All right. So, let's >> Uhhuh. Go ahead. >> If that's something that we agree on,
let's make sure it's communicated that we do not put a lot of money into landscaping once that project's done. if it's going to be later taken out for for something different.
>> There's a lot of landscaping, but I think the landscaping is not around where the botanical garden will go. So, that is something to check to make sure. >> Let's just make sure that we're all on the same page. >> There's a lot of money and plants in that thing. >> Not putting down brand new grass and then ripping it back up. >> Yeah. Well, the guild is working
alongside with Jerry and Parks and Recreation. They're actually paying money for uh engineering plans and everything so it works alone. They've been sitting down having meetings with Robert Bill. So they are trying to strategically do it the right way.
>> No, it's a very good point, Mr. Ronart, to make sure >> Yeah. Let's not >> that even though these conversations are going on, that doesn't mean somebody didn't say, "Hey, we shouldn't plant stuff here." >> Yeah. And so even if it sits barren for for a minute,
>> at least there's a plan for that space >> that we're not duplicating efforts >> or that it's our landscaping plan matches the botanical garden, right? That what we do actually goes towards it. So good point. >> Um let's run through these other ones um
hopefully sort of quickly. Ball fields we're waiting on um >> Brady said we have a contact so we going to see I talked to him earlier this week. >> Okay. with somebody they can talk to someone up there. Let me know that soon as we get it, we're ready to go full board. >> I mean, House Authority and us are all
on board. >> Opportunity site we talked about at um the last work session. Um and so they're going to package that back and bring it to us again. Um I'm not sure if I threw parking shuttle on here or somebody else had talked about a parking shuttle.
>> I was going to ask you, you know, like the autonomous vehicle kind of thing. just looping around downtown. Is that something we would want to >> our own train ride? >> H >> like train rides. >> Yeah.
>> Another city too, I think. Right. >> No, another city. >> Lake Nona has Lake Nona has actually ones. >> Our trolley isn't enough. >> But the trolley goes >> trolley has an assignment already. It goes to Sunreil. It goes to Amtrak. Mhm.
>> I'm talking, you know, if you went >> we're talking additional >> if you went down Palmeta to Simol >> and >> a park and just >> and an actual autonomous vehicle where you're not paying a driver. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Well, what about what about
>> but they have a they have somebody on there to push the stop button just in case. I find that entertaining. Oh, using our our our locals who are already doing it because I know the ride not ride line, not the one that Dan does, but the the one that pedal whatever.
>> Yeah. >> When there's >> heavy nights downtown, I do see the the vehicle go through and we'll take you from wherever you need to go to back to your parking spot. Is there a way that we partner with them? Not paying anybody, but since you have those who
have those golf carts, we are a golf cart district in downtown if we work with some of them without spending more money on a parking shuttle, but saying, "Okay, well, you know, this might not be a city initiative, but we do we do
support those who are doing these small shuttles." What do you think? What were the partnership consist with a >> just like the just like the botanical gardens the city supports it not funding or anything like that but to say we do have these >> just like we support our our our certain
amenities they that it's your liability your you know and we we say that but it also brings attention that we do have golf cart shuttle services >> when Rob Paul was restarting uh red line or whatever it's called um he reached
out and and I reached out to staff and and and tried to see if we could do some kind of partnership, but for some reason it didn't seem feasible at the time. I still think it's worth exploring. Uh whether it's uh the city gives a
little bit of money every year for golf carts or something. I don't know. >> Well, and and part of it is it would have to be consistent. >> Right. >> Right. So it has to be, you know, if we're going to >> advertise something, we need to be able to able to advertise this every Friday and every Saturday. Absolutely. Something like that and not depend on
whether they >> We're giving those 13 people something more to complain about, >> right? And it's available. >> We ought to just build a parking garage anyway because those people would then complain that they had to walk so far and they really complained that they had to pay for parking. >> They'd complain $10 an hour.
>> Where's the camera? I >> I'm not calling any of the 13 people. I >> We never mentioned any names. >> They know who they are. >> Hey, for years and years and years, we had a dirty dozen. And we knew who the dirty dozen was. >> I have no rec. >> That wasn't social media.
>> That was before social media. >> And it was I can hear >> spurned by your newspaper friend. >> I can hear Belma Williams now up there saying some people just meanspared their spirit. Okay. Art center.
>> Um, that made the list. Yeah. >> Yes. So, is this the art center as in the Monroe Hall building >> or a building? >> Or a building. Yeah. >> What other building we got? >> What? >> We've got Betty Smith, but they think
that's too small. Um, they want something downtown. I know Parks and Recck also wants that space so they have it available for rental and use, but um I I really have a catch and my crawl over the rental space. >> We don't make money on that. That's not
a money driver. It I don't think we need to invest or worry about >> I'm sorry. >> No, just in general >> meeting space or rental space. It's not that's not our >> but it is
>> and it is an amenity. So even though it's not bringing us as much money, it is something that attracts people to come down. You're going to have an event. Even when CO was shut down, people were still finding creative ways to have events, whether it was drive-thru, birthdays out in the garage,
>> those event spaces are an amenity. That's something else that we provide as the city of Sanford. I know, but a public art uh an art center would would do the same and >> more. >> My question is not is that the building.
My question is is this a goal we want for this year and how hard are we pushing it? >> I think that the public's arts folks have been wanting us for a long time and have been pretty patient about not really getting anything. We've given them more than
we've given any other board. I mean, their budget has been huge >> in terms of an art center. >> And actually, >> and they haven't been established that long for them to be that patient. And I I applaud all of them very well. I >> They've been around since I've been here. That's a long time.
>> No, they got here when I got here and I've been here six years. I mean, we've had boards. No. >> Yes. Yes. It started way It started with Christine Dalton, >> right? And that's when I first came on because they had to create an arts commission because they put up that thing in front of the the uh fire
station and that's where it came from and I first came on board right then. >> Okay. So, what do we want to do about art center? I still really would like to see as part of the opportunity site a building there on commercial facing the lake.
>> I love that idea. >> Space. >> Think about this. Think about this. Think about this. Monro Hall get built. >> No. No, think about this. Monro Hall Art Center. >> Museum, botanical gardens. >> We would have
>> we would actually have maybe some stuff that people would come to this city for. >> I agree. >> Where we got the where we going to have the money for that though? >> I agree. I think it's great. But where are we going to get? >> Well, they are, I hope, taking
information some of us have given them about how to apply for grants and going after whatever money they could get. >> Yeah, I hope you gave them information about something other than state grants. >> Uh,
>> I'm not sure if y'all are aware of this. Every grant to the state for arts and culture from Semino County was not recommended. >> Every single one. every single student. >> They did not recommend anything from Sim County. >> Wow. >> Yeah, it's not popular. >> There was some payback there.
>> So, they need a really wealthy donor to come out of nowhere. >> There's some other places though. But anyway, that's an aside. That's just, you know, >> well, can we require that they be responsible for for a certain amount? Because if if if that is one of their
their uh goals and accomplishments, other than they've done a great job of putting out art, but they haven't had to I mean, that's money has been given to them, you know, through the residents and businesses of the city of Sanford. What about Okay, if if you want this,
then what activities are you pushing that that brings money into that? >> Well, just like just like you you think the botanical garden is going to bring people to the museum and they're people are going to pay. That's what they're going to do with the with the center is
they're going to have art classes that people pay for. >> Yeah. But >> they're going to have art to come visit. >> The botanical gardens are having fundraisers that are going to that. They have the garden tour and that money is going to the botanical gardens. They are having the the harvest moon. That money
is going into the engineering cost for that. They those organizations are paying for the botanical gardens. >> And then they have a commissioner that's saying, "Okay, for the next two years, I'm going after the funding for it myself." >> But this is our public art commission
trying to do this for our city. We don't have a garden commission. We don't have a garden board. >> Okay. >> Uh are we committed to public art or we're not? >> We are. I'm just saying one of the one of the one of the incentives or one of the excuse me, not incentives. One of
the initiatives should be okay. Let's not kind of like Main Street. Now we're requiring Main Street to to come up with some of their things even though it's not a a a city thing, but still they are >> Main Street from their get-go was supposed to get their own funding and
they have yet to get their act together and get it done. >> They're getting >> way closer than they've been. >> Can we have a garden a garden? I love the joke that right >> put something down. >> Then we have another place to put more
board members. >> So excited. We we rescued a rose bush from Lowe's >> and we we had it on the side of the house and I was taking care of it and finally I said, "You know what? You're go you're going to a home and you're going to work." And this morning that
peach rose over so beautiful. >> I bet it is. I was like, Marne doing a rose garden. >> So, for art center, if we support it, we want non city funding.
We're not 100% sold on it being at the >> Monroe Hall. >> Monroe Hall, but we do support a location downtown. Well, let me ask you something that we could put into our RFP that part of what you propose to us is an arts center.
>> Well, let me let me ask you a question because Mhm. >> You're more into facilities like I am than than maybe our friends. >> I feel like Betty Smith is so underutilized. >> It is. >> It is. Such a weird space. It is. But
but I think I think art could be really beautiful in that building. >> I agree. It's vent there so they could have the room. >> No, hold on. I'm not done. I'm not done. What What if we had the concept of multiple spaces? One is for displaying
and one is for classes. Maybe classes could be held in a civic center in the senior section, right? Is that used 247? I don't know. >> I like the Betty T. Smith as an art center. >> I do. I really do. >> There's not room for the classes there and I can tell you that because I know
what it looks like at Hopper. the senior. >> No, Betty Smith. >> No, I know that. I absolutely know that. Let me let me finish. >> They need a dedicated space. So, it can't be they can use it one day and senior center could use it the other.
>> That was They did that for years. >> Take No, they would take their stuff to the um to the Westside Center, unpack everything up. >> You're right. You're right. >> And so they need they need to leave style. >> Okay. But but still Monroe could So you
don't even think Monroe could be >> do that? It does. Okay. >> But I guess I'm not explaining this well enough. >> Well, so why are we not considering Monroe strongly enough for the Arts Center? >> I think we are. I think it's our only option
and it needs $100,000 to fix it whether No matter what we do with it. >> Yeah, >> no matter what we do with it. >> I don't object to it. If y'all haven't found the money for it, I'm I'm I mean, it's in district one. >> What makes sense to >> But what I'm ask what I'm I guess I'm
not explaining myself well enough. I want Betty Smith to be >> something >> something more than it is. >> I agree. >> Maybe it it's where art is displayed. >> I agree. >> Maybe that. >> But then I don't want to be a naysayer, but for
it to be displayed, somebody has to be there to open the door to let people see it. Well, that's now you got to staff that. >> Well, you probably have to staff it no matter what kind of idea we come up with to make it used more. >> Well, but I Yeah, I I don't think just
an art museum is the right use for Betty Smith. I do agree it is very underutilized, but I'm not sure what we use it for. Could we start with the art commission using that for the 2025 20 Wait wait wait wait we're here in 26
Jesus 2026 2027 year and then let it grow. >> I think so until Monroe is fixed or whatever. >> I mean because they can house their stuff upstairs and then you know um you know use the space downstairs at least that gives them a start in place and
then they can grow until we find out where we have additional funds. >> That may be a good idea. And can parks and recre staffing that they have now. >> Well, they I mean they got to give you certainly more than they have now. >> Well, then there you go. >> You can put about a 100 people in their
tables and chairs and you don't need 100 people for classes. I mean, there's there's >> you can do on both sides of the stairs. >> Let's suggest that to them. >> Okay. Let's you suggest that to them. You're their >> There you go. You the man. But tell them Commissioner Britain said
because you know they think I get on them real, >> right? Okay, moving on. I'll say she at an hour and 13 minutes and I thought the first part this this part was only going to take like 15 minutes, >> so I should know better. Okay, I'm scared to bring up this next one.
Okay. But as I look through what we did last year, we talked about this and if you look at I didn't print the other document, but their NEOGV and what people other um the departments are doing in terms of the customer service stuff was in one of the documents I
emailed you. Um, these items I don't think were well covered and I didn't remember what the don't pass the buck thing was other than I think it was Patrick. >> I put that in my evaluation the passing the book.
>> Well, so um I don't know where we are. Where where you read >> number two there is no do that document for this. right here there. >> Well, part of this from last year was
talking about the whole permitting process and we know that that's under improvement now. I >> I still run I really want to see some examples of the whole process in a workflow chart, the good workflow, the bad. That's
probably where that came from. And that's one of the things where they have done some and I I guess I should have printed this this piece that I didn't print. Um they've done some but they're not online yet. Print. So we want that done, right?
>> Yeah. >> We we want the you know if we've got these >> here's how you open a business. Here's your pamphlet. Take it. We want those done. Right. >> Yeah. And I want to see some real proof that all the work that's been put into improving the efficiency of the
permitting process has happened. >> Well, they're still going through that study right now. So, I don't know as if all of this has been the report is almost done is what I'm hearing. >> Yes. >> So, then I think some of that starts to >> Yeah. So, if it's not done as of today,
it still needs to be on our goals. An important one, >> but that's one we need to push. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and I don't know in terms of staffing how that happens. It sounds like it's and I can never remember her name. >> Amy, >> the is it Amy? >> Michael, >> the on budsman.
>> No, the um the data. Elizabeth, thank you. I always want to call her Jennifer Jones. >> Elizabeth, I don't know if that's her job or can be part of her job to >> remember Elizabeth. I'm the only one that remembers your name. Art doesn't
know who you are. I have a hundred kids. I don't know anything. >> She's the data queen. >> The dash a job that can be assigned to her to sort of like what are the workflow documents we have? >> Um but and I think that was another thing
we had asked about last year. You know, do we even know what we have? >> Yeah. >> Right. >> How close are we to something that we can get? >> Looks like work was done, but I think we need to actually push that. >> Yeah. don't pass the buck uh is twofold. One is uh if I go to Carrie and he's got
a shirt on that says City of Sanford Parks and I go to him and say, "Hey, Carrie, I I need to get a permit to get my plumbing fixed on my house." Oh, I don't know, man. I don't do that. >> Yeah.
>> Instead of That's not my department, but here's who you can contact. you need to go down to city hall. You need to go ask for art. Um art will help you through that. And >> y so
>> and then and then the other part is hey Gary how come these potholes are still out here? How come oh we just don't have enough staffing? We we're so underststaffed and we're underpaid and >> they fix that.
>> That was that was what was being said over and over and over and over when we were going through the uh backup um vacuum sewer system issue. >> We were we were blaming everybody and
everything else but trying to get answers and trying to get it fixed. >> Um and and and the same thing still happens with fire. Oh, we're not paid enough. Oh, we don't have enough people. The police. Oh, we're not paid enough. We don't have enough people. No, no, no,
no, no, no. Stop. What are you doing right now? Get it done. Don't wait for >> um and so that that's part of customer service, right? >> That's >> what if we took every public facing
employee and put a card in their pocket with Norton Bonapart's phone number. >> No, but and I was just thinking about that. We could make sort of a business card >> that on the back had key contacts and so
>> I don't know anything about that but here you can call this guy >> and whether you're >> I have a stack of these cards in my truck. >> Yeah, cuz you got to be fair to them. They don't know what those departments are doing. >> That ain't what they doing. So, >> right. But they were initially supposed to do something like that. remember when
the guy kept coming around with the uh cameras >> and then we put up the signs because now just like we just had this last incident, they were trying to catch people with the public um >> oh >> public records request. >> Oh yeah. >> So during the training they were
supposed to have something because you could technically go to someone in parks and recreation request the public records request and if they say they didn't know then that >> that's a violation. >> That's a violation. So, the city was supposed to be working on some kind of card and training. So, if that happened,
well, I guess it kind of fell off because I don't even see the signs out anymore. And then they stopped. You know, it's it's kind of like it happens and then it goes away. >> Yeah. I don't remember the card, but I know there was training that if someone asks you about public records, here is you you need to contact.
>> Well, keeping that all in your head is one thing, but having a card pull out of your pocket. to answer to answer your what you said, we should have some employee orientation for new hires where we talk about what the city does
and and and just a real brief kind of kind of information for you to learn from. >> I know they have an orientation because Lisa talks about >> the public records in every new hire orientation. I don't know half a day. I don't know what else
>> it could include. Uh I'm trying to remember if I even had one. It could include no matter what your job is, right? There's a possibility somebody's going to ask you this kind of question. >> Somebody's going to ask you something you don't do. >> Y this again the car going to be the case. I'm not coming to work and it is
what some people going to do. We asking them to do more and they and they might be stressed out on their job they got going on. Yeah. >> And you telling me to tell me if I'm working in parks and wrecks and you come and ask me about something going perman back here on and then this is what we got going on. >> We can do the orientation and all that.
>> Listen, listen. If you work for a government agency, your number one priority is customer service to the public. That is it. >> I agree. But I'm talking about Hold on, hold on. We talking about folks out there working in the building for other folks if if >> everyone
>> I understand that guys. I'm not I'm not saying that they should keep it in your keep it in your pocket. I don't care. >> Well, you know, I said the car. Yeah. So, we're in agreement that there should be a card employee. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Um Well, no, because the goal was improve customer service, right? That's an idea to improve customer service. >> Yeah. That's so that's that goes back to the don't pass the buck. >> Yeah. >> I consider it a warm transfer. >> Just the basically if I call somebody
and the the difference between let me just transfer you versus hey I've got such and such on the line. This is what they're looking for. It's a warm transfer. And I'm saying that throughout how we just do government period. >> No. That's that's what I do at work. >> Yep. A warm transfer. Y
>> I get calls all the time that are do not apply to my job >> and those people expect me to get them where they need to go, >> right? >> And sometimes they've already been transferred several times before they get to me. >> And I Yeah. Yeah. I try to make sure I
try to make sure I'm the end of the road. >> Yeah. >> Okay. On to number three. Here are things we talked about doing last year and I'm not sure any of us including me um did the things we said we would do in
terms of um homelessness. >> What were you talking about mayor when you said uh with homelessness piece when you asked us >> someone approached me and said basically if I had somebody that would pay for it
where would you put it and what would it look like? And the what would you look like at part was is it a single facility? Is it um tiny homes? Is it a a residential kind of development kind of thing?
Um my response to them was no matter what it is, it has to provide services. You can't just put them in a place. >> Yeah. >> As long as it's not in district two. And I'm just beefing up just >> I don't uh I know I said that but
>> it could be a replacement of Rome. >> Yeah. And and this is what I've always told Chris at wrong. If it's going to be something that's going to help elevate and help those folks, I have no problem with something being put there. Um here's the kicker. If we have somebody that is sincerely coming in to try to
help because nobody else in the county is doing it, I understand that they come just drop them off. You've always heard me, you guys have always heard me say that and talk against that. But in the same sense, if we got somebody that's going to come in and help these folks, um, and
they specifically want to help Sanford, then I'm not going to fight. I mean, I know I I said what I said with you before, but uh, the kicker is these people want to come in and they want to help, not just Simino County. They say, "I want to make sure Sanford is taken
care of." Now, if we can't get it there, I if you guys fight against it in y'all district, I don't have a problem with it. >> But how are they helping? And and and then and this is your district, but we all manage all of Sanford. How are what is your return on investment when it
comes to your community and the people that you represent? Because we we know that a lot of the people who use those services are not our Sanford residents. So, how does that help the property uh value uh the the reduce the rate in
crime, allow site selectors to come and say, "Okay, we want to do an economic boost and not just in historic Gossboro Boulevard, but throughout the District 2 area." >> Well, first of all, with uh they were bringing services, and I talked to Chris
about this. They were bringing services where it's not just going to have them come in, they just stay. They going to have things that's going to help them get on their feet. >> Mhm. and being move. That's what we do already. That's that's what we're doing. No, I'm not on the board now. >> I'm on the board. Yeah. What I'm talking about also with housing.
>> Yeah. >> What they're talking about, like he just said with the housing, they were coming with the housing piece. And so, say for instance, stage one is to help them. >> Mhm. >> Uh try to get clean and things of that nature. Stage two would be, okay, we have housing here. We're going to let you get in this housing. M
>> we're going to help make sure that you're going to be able to be sufficient to make sure that you can move forward and you don't have to stay into homelessness. >> So, if we got something that's in place that's going to help them do that, uh cuz here's the kicker. Either way,
either way, nobody else is in the county. it seem like they're jumping up to do anything else other than >> we're send. So what our maybe our ask to to these
people would be not the initial homeless shelter but the second step of you know supportive housing for them to move cuz that's one thing you know and I I assume we all get this like I've got somebody
they need a place to live they can only pay this much or whatever um where can they go and there's not anywhere. Yeah, >> there's very few places. I know Ram has worked very hard at starting to find those places and find a place for them to go. >> Well, we have them in district one. We
have perfect perfect example on Third Street. Um God, her name is for escaping, right? But she's doing an amazing job, but it's not it it's addressing >> not necessarily homelessness, but those who can't afford today's living, but it
you go through the program. God, I can't think of her name right now. Still two phases. for good house near >> the county services >> and that's in district one and I support that fully but it is not a homeless service project is a housing thing and
because there's the difference between our homeless right and our moms who have lost their job and our employees who are barely making it and then there's our chronic homeless and then there are people who want to live off the grid and then those who get dropped off to the city of Sanford. So what what she's
doing there uh fits the bill of workforce housing. >> I'm I'm thinking one step below that, >> right? We're talking about getting them to that point. >> That's a different um but but also I will say this, Rahm does not have enough
beds. And when we had the cold spell, >> oh yeah, >> thank God uh the Methodist church opened up and and allowed more beds. We had people on the streets in that cold weather that did not have shelter.
>> So, we do need more shelter space for for our unhoused our unhoused. And that's that's I I don't want to sound insensitive. >> Are we talking about our unhoused or other unhoused? because I want to make
sure that our tax dollars, our energy, our effort, our support goes to the people of our community who have lived and worked here and they are facing these issues versus let's be the catchall for Simino County because
nobody else wants to do it. So now we are the open arms. >> Well, my thing is this here too. >> It doesn't work that way. >> It don't work that way. And second of all, if we got people that's got money that's going to come in and going to do it and it's going to help folk, I have no problem with that >> because we got folks that have money
that are going to come in and they want to service this and take care of this for us. >> Our folks, >> the statistics I am aware of and have seen year after year is there is some that come in to where the services are, but most of the ones you're servicing
are the ones that are here anyway. >> They're already here. As long as we're serving our community, I'm I don't object to it. >> Well, so can I give an example? Well, I'm I'm trying that. But but but I want you to
understand that the unhoused um sometimes end up in desperate situations and take desperate measures that do affect our community, >> do affect our residents, do affect the
tax value. Mhm. >> So that's the fine line that we're walking is keeping them from being that desperate that they do things that do affect us. >> But if we're providing Patrick, and I'm
I'm saying this respectfully, if we're providing the services, we have the the health departments, the true health, we've got the the the the missions and all of that. What I'll give you a perfect example. Last year we had a big big issue with homelessness in
district 1. Two deaths that happen at our at our parks. One of the issues was you all are providing the public services. Sometimes they're here, sometimes they're not. So those people who are given the identity cards and everything and they think that they're supposed to come to a feeding. At this
time they're not. So they're roaming our alleys looking through our trash and now you've got to call our community service uh you know police officers and stuff. I I tr not saying I'm trying to get rid of the homeless people. I'm just saying we shouldn't be the hub for it because then
that leaves additional issues because people are like, "Okay, well, where do I go now?" Because Grace and Grits is no longer here and I was told that I was supposed to and I'm not calling Grace and Grits out. Oh my god. Just giving an example of the that that trickle effect that happens in our district because
people are thinking, "Okay, well, this is where you need to go." That's why I wanted the homeless day site. So there is a place >> this person would not is this person focused on Sanford? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Sanford. They commission Renee focused on Sanford to make sure that we have Sanford taken care of and we ain't got to put a penny in it. >> That was just a >> when I used to say what I said and and I said it loudly with you and and I so I'm not going back on that. But when I found
out the person said that we want to do this and we're not saying you have to be from Sanford, but we want to take care of Sanford. >> And when I found that they want to take care of Sanford as they've been doing with all kind of other places they've been taking care of, it's a no-brainer
because here's the kicker. They're going to help our citizens and we need to help and there's no money coming from the city of Sanford to do it. >> Well, I I I just want I want say one other thing. I I we are constantly walking the fine line
again of being the biggest city in the county and also having the largest number of uh lower income housing um hardworking folks that are just one
paycheck away from being on the street. >> That that's our people. Mhm. >> Um there aren't any other cities that really have that much like we do >> at all. >> Um and you know, uh one AOK tire going
out of business, losing your job, one one you know, I I don't know what other businesses go, but one business going out of work, going out of business and and losing your job and you don't have a place to take your kids. >> One city of Sanford shutting down
positions. So I get it. I do I I I do get it and I am in the the the majority of where of of of low income. That's literally what my what category puts me under low income. But I'm just I I I
want to be clear that I I want to make sure that we whether we're getting behind it or or somebody else is doing it all for us or we're adding one penny into it that we are clear that we are trying to
support the people of Sanford and not taking on the burden of Simino County. Uh, like I said, and I like y'all know how again how I was. But out of all us in there too, we have to be mindful. I'm up and down 13th Street at Stober
Boulevard uh all week, all the time. And again, during the freeze, talk with the Methodist Church, talk with Chris. So, it's not like, again, it's my and I and I'm not saying that it's just my district because we all got to play a part in, but I'm there. So, it's not
like me talking about I got to go and try to find out. But when I found out who the people were and talked and they said what they want to do, they want to take care of their home and their home is >> Sanford. >> And so if we got somebody again that's going to take care of our home and is
their home as well, >> it's a no-brainer. >> You want to Well, here let's circle back to what is it we we're talking about. If it's well our ask to them to be we think
the need is step up housing and I just coined that word step up housing. I don't know that anybody ever used that before >> because if if we do this >> someplace to move when from the sec the step after a shelter. >> Well, >> yes. >> Because that seems to be >> that's that's the help. But here's the
thing. But there's two but it's two things like Commissioner Alson said cuz I was fighting Chris on this and like he said they have enough space of needing more beds. But if they could move people out, >> they want that building next to
permanent house. >> Well, those folks I don't I mean somebody they don't want to sell it and talk about it that old church right beside it >> that nobody's been in there for 30 years. >> It's in code enforcement and they don't want to sell it to them. >> The rescue church of God. But the thing
is, um, we have folks that want to whichever way I know that they will do whatever we would need for them to do is going to be best, but they definitely want to take care of Sam. >> Okay.
>> When you brought this to the commission before uh about a couple months ago, we were talking about in district 4, remember? I don't remember. We were saying because the goodwill is out there. Um, you know, last year we said >> that was for his day center. >> We talked about talking to the sharing
center and this is where I failed. I haven't talked to the sharing center. It's been a year. >> Um, about looking and we talked about the I4 corridor. >> Yeah. Up there by the Goodwill. >> Yeah. Where the mall >> in there sharing center up at Walmart,
>> but the bus line's not there anymore. >> The mall. >> Yeah. But the bus line's not there. >> Yeah. That's another >> ball. Would you that that area by Chick-fil-A where there's already a camp in there anyway? Were you considering the possibility of maybe a day center
being out that way or does that does is that a benefit to our uptown? >> Well, that's the county there, so we can't really talk about >> Yeah, that's not that's north of M. Yeah. Okay. >> Well, that's an ideal place to put it then. >> It is. like
>> but I mean and we just talked about like that might be an area >> we did. Yeah, I remember that. >> That's possible. >> And now they're doing that new truck stop >> if you um you know and I've I've poured the the sharing center, you know, where they they've got a place for people to
come do laundry. They've got a place get >> Yeah, they've got a nice transitional setup there from step one through step whatever. Yeah, you just go from one part of that. I think that's a a second piece that would still be good for us. >> Okay, >> Carrie, don't make me tell you off on
none of your business. >> But I was asking about just in case. >> Yeah, be nice. >> Yeah, >> I am hungry. >> If they were going to provide all this money and have another city step up because here we're giving you funding. But no, we want to do it here in Stanford. That's where the need is
>> and that's where these folks want to donate. >> Black folks will take care of it home. >> Take care home. So >> I will I will get back with them and let them know. >> Yeah, maybe we do a combination. >> I think the first the the primary need is the transitional housing, not the emergency shelter
>> and it can help take care of both, but they can also talk with you and then talk with Chris as well. >> Yeah. Do do you mind if um Well, can you reach out to Chris? Yeah. >> Just have a conversation. Make sure >> because if he needs more beds, how do we
help? other just more bed. He has property that they can do some stuff that he just saw. >> I mean, it needs people to take care. >> Okay. >> Cool. Cool. >> All right. Moving on to budget. >> Show me the money.
>> So, you have a document from Miss Lindsay. >> Yes. >> I suggested to um you know, I suggested a 0.1 mil decrease. the city manager and the finance director asked me to come speak with them and um told me that that
was a really bad idea and all the reasons it's a really bad idea. Um I still think a 0.1 mil decrease is not that big a deal. I did some research and this is back on the the the agenda page. Did some research um on the property
appraiser site in the city of Stanford last year. 86 homes sold for more than $500,000. We're finally getting there. >> You know, >> when I started this, you I never would have thought that would happen. >> No. Yeah. >> Okay. 86 homes in the last year,
$500,000. In 2020, >> the average single family home >> was $159,000. That's when we said, "Oh, our housing values are so low. We need a high millage rate." 2025, it's 74% higher. $277,000.
Um the theft value in 2020 was $98,000. So we had to have millage rate. It is now $172,000. 76% increase from 22 to 26. And I'm sorry my years don't line up because my budget the budget book I had didn't
match what I'd already collected. >> Um but we've seen a 70% increase in property tax revenue since 2022. >> Okay. We're gonna when I say I mean the the leap is
>> from 2020 to now people are paying >> 70% more in property taxes. So if our revenue has increased $20 million in the last four years, I think we can take a four00 or 600,000
68 >> $5,000 decrease and at least move the needle in the right direction. I don't I don't uh disagree with you, but I would love for uh somebody to to to show us what the increase of public safety cost
has been. >> Well, I can do that, too. >> What the increase in payroll has been because remember since that time happened, we had the minimum wage issue come up. >> We had to raise the pay of a lot of our staff.
>> And when we had to raise the minimum pay, we had to raise what? pay, everybody else's pay. >> Mhm. >> There's been a lot over the last few years that that is played a part in the in the ballooning budget. It's not just an outof control
spending government. >> Oh, if it was out of control spending government, I'd be suggesting more than a.1 mil increase. Yeah. >> I mean, a couple meeting you suggested 10% decrease, >> right? If it was, >> which is more than 1.1 mil. >> If it if it was out of control spending, we would have the ball fields we want.
>> Yeah. a need for our kids. We would have >> a marina, >> the marina fixed. >> We would have a botanical garden or a nicer museum. There's a lot of things that we don't have that say we don't have out of control spending.
Well, and you know the the thing um when they came around do saying that all the city and counties were spending so much and they had their >> formula um well you know the state budget had increased almost exactly what he was complaining about the city's increasing I mean I I get that our costs
have greatly increased >> um and I've looked at those numbers too >> right well he compared it to precoid to postco um and and he and he's still doing it. But but he didn't talk about the raise in in minimum wage,
>> right? >> He didn't talk about the raise in public safety costs because that's hit everybody and and those folks deserve those raises. I'm not saying they don't, but it has been a cost we had to absorb. And
>> and in terms of the property tax thing, if that passes, and I am on the side of the fence that >> it probably will not p it would not pass because there are way more people that don't have homestead than do, >> right?
>> Um but if it were to pass, then the answer to that is you got to get back to the fire fee. >> Yeah. >> And you've got to, you know, it's going to cost and that's part of the education. if we didn't charge, they would be paying way more than they're paying on property tax, right?
>> But I just feel, you know, um you know, the last time I was heading out of office, I was pushing for a half mil increase um to support the city that not that and actually it wasn't for that budget year the money was needed. It was the following budget year the money was going to be needed.
>> And I push very hard to increase the taxes. I think we're at a point where we can chip down a little bit and head it in the right direction. So if there's agreement, we have staff base
their budget on.1 mil less. If there's not agreement, then we fight it when we get to the budget. >> I'm in agreement. I I still think um I still think there's a little bit of uh odds and ends that that can be cut out
and taken care of. Um, >> so we're going to be doing that exercise >> and um in response to somebody said something about the furlows >> um and I mentioned to Miss Linda I said
you know when we've had to cut we've cut >> and you know she said well and my recommendation if we ever do that again is we don't do furlows we do layoffs. Yeah, I heard >> because as we came out of it and we're bringing people back on, we can afford payraises and people will leave.
>> So that's going to be a whole another issue. But I think I think we can find $685,000. And they come back and say, "Oh, absolutely not. There's no, you know, here's what you're going to have to not do. We can I would rather go
back up than cut after the budget's done." >> Yeah. So, Mr. Monart, did you want to add anything to that? Because >> Yeah, since you talked about what we're not spending money on, we shouldn't be spending money out. >> What's an inflection rate?
>> I think that's inflation. >> I couldn't resist. >> You look hard. I'm sure I got a typo. >> Hey, that be one. So, hey, >> someday that stuff just sticks out like a sword thumb, doesn't it? >> Okay. The What are we up to? Carter gain.
>> Oh, wait. Before you go on the because the first line I read here just made me really nervous, but then I read the next line about $2 million loss for fiscal year, but 7 million was 12 months. >> So, that's not going to happen every year,
>> right? And depending on how you when you take the money out for the clubhouse, were we up $5 million first and then right >> we were down 2 million? >> Yeah. >> I think we need to um
make sure we're watching the the reserves especially going into this unknown time period. >> Yeah. Because occasionally you'll hear from folks about how much reserves do the city have? They have so many reserves. Why aren't they spending it? So, we need to make sure that
>> Well, and there are multiple reserve funds. So, if you look at the bottom line reserves, well, that's got utilities which has a huge fund. >> Storm water because we're saving up money to spend it on things. It's not
just general funds. So, that bottom line and so that's why things and I >> that's why fire that's why a fire lieutenant took a swipe at us the other day on social media. Yeah, >> look how much they have in reserve. >> I think that's what I was looking >> and so
>> um I think we're now because I had asked about several years ago to start actually showing >> the the individual reserves funds as a chart. I think that's still in the budget now. Okay. >> So you can see where those are. But there's a lot of money in reserves.
>> Yeah. But a lot of it's tied up to with bonds and loans and utilities and >> things that would really be screwed if we didn't have. >> So it's not like it's just money lang. >> And that's something I asked Craig the other day. Is bonding part of that
marina project worth it? And then the marina can pay back. >> Well, we've already bonded some of that. >> Okay. The marina can pay back on the bond like we're going to make the golf course pay back. There was when we talked about the master plan for that >> um >> we talked about doing revenue bonds.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So um but remember we refinanced the public safety building again >> to pull out some cash and some of that was some money for the marina and for Mayfair and the fire department. So,
okay. So, charter change. I put in the memo that Miss Lindsay sent last May, I think, as a followup. Is that when she started working? >> It was basically a followup me.
>> Yeah. that um Lonnie Grief had sent. >> Um Dana, you asked for this. I'm not sure wasn't sure what you were wanted. >> Um because when I uh approached the commission um I was told that we um we would have to change the charter. I
said that we I do understand that the city commission I mean the city manager works at the will of the commission but I did believe that any hiring and firing of department heads should be approved
the final approval at the will of the commission. Not saying that we have to say so, but before it is before it is final before a director is fired or a director is hired. Not level low employees, superintendents, anybody like
that, but a director because they manage so much. It should be contingent upon the approval of the city commission. And that's why I asked for us to review the charter change. when I brought it up at the evaluation time, it said, "Well,
that was a charter matter." >> Okay. >> Well, I would disagree with you on that point, but in terms of reviewing the charter, um you that's I'm seeing that as two separate things.
>> Why would you disagree? I know that um before I was first elected, the fire chief and police chief were um either hired or approved by the city commission
and there were significant issues especially with the police and that was a long time ago. I don't remember all the details, but they did a charter change to bring them under the city manager to get rid of those issues.
Um I think having to um somebody's gone through a hiring process and they've been vetted and you know, okay, here's the person I've chosen and now I have to present them to the city commission and see if they're going to
want them. I think that um makes your hiring process more difficult. >> It's just a it it it's also another thing that keeps us in the know of what's going on. There have been directors that are hired that I didn't know until after the fact. And again, Mr. Bonapart, yes, works at the will of
the commission, but he doesn't have to answer to the community like we have to answer to the community. And I do think that it it doesn't necessarily have to be uh uh the commission says so, but it should
the commission is briefed and it is made public. I I do not like the fact >> briefed and made public >> like it needs to be brought to the commission like >> before the hiring or >> no once a once a candidate has been selected then the commission says okay
just like on a consent agenda and and we approve it. this not knowing um and and because these people make all of the decisions for us that then we are held accountable for. I'm sorry but it is the
our our our city manager is not an elected official. we answer to the people because of the decisions that are made and when maybe it doesn't have to include the firing, which I think that it should, but most definitely the hiring of a
person that's going to make at least $100,000 and is responsible. I mean, our public works director, which I totally don't agree that we should have a public works and utilities director together, but that was made without me. When you're having something that
involves all of the city of Sanford like that, yeah, we should know and and we should be privy to that information and it should become before the city commission that yes, we have hired this person. These these are their qualifications. This is why I chose them. This is why I chose them and uh
upon your approval, I'm going to proceed. >> So there's there's two different ways to look at this. Uh, I'm not sure that's a not sure that's a reason to have a charter review.
Um, but I'm curious if if it's something the commission wants, then do we require the city manager to bring us his choice and present to us
uh or the person and their resume and their background. So then we are aware of it before it does hit the streets. The only reason I said a charter review because that's what Lonnie Group said when I brought it up in my evaluation. He's like we couldn't even discuss it anymore. >> Well, that's because
>> I I think in terms of requiring the city manager to do it takes a charter review, a charter change because the charter says the city manager is responsible for hiring and firing. If we want to be responsible, that would take a >> No, no, no. I'm not asking for hiring
and firing. I'm asking for him to bring us the person or or present to us his choice before it hits the streets so we know who the person is. We know what their background is and and we are aware of it.
>> And that's what you don't in my evaluation. Mr. Groot then said we can't even discuss that because that city charter commissioner >> Brit but but this is what you want though. >> Yeah. I'm saying yeah that's it. I don't think that >> that's different than us approving it. >> Yeah. Well, it's we'd have to be
involved in the whole hiring process. >> Not necessarily. I don't want to be involved in that. But I think that it should be bought before the commission and once we not even I'm not trying to say that I say, "Well, I like this person and do you like this person?" But it should be brought to the
commission and then we say yes on that. We we should have some say. So when it comes to a director, I don't need to be in the details, but if you say just bring it, >> how do you make the decision? the details because he he has presented what
the qualifications are and why he chose this person. And then there my next step is when something happens I I was informed by this by our our city manager and I and he did a thorough job of that and I agree and stand by him. When we
had a couple of issues I said I don't even know. I asked the city manager uh uh regarding one item and I was like well who did the interviewing? HR. someone from HR. But I'm an elected official and that's what I tell my constituents. No, it should be this was
the process. Hold on, Patrick. This was the process. This is the interview, how many days it took. These are the qualifications and just like a consent agenda, you know, and it it moves along. I'm not trying to do the city manager's job, but I need to be in the know and it
needs to be presented to us. And then upon a upon approval, and I know approval is the wrong word, but that's the only way that it was presented to me when I asked about it during the evaluation process. >> But if it's in the consent agenda, >> not the consent agenda. I'm saying it's like >> Well, if it's on an agenda, it's public
before we make a decision. >> Not not Well, it can even I don't know all of the details are. I'm just saying it needs to be even if it was a work session and this item we we've been on the search and this is the person that was brought before us, blah blah blah. Even if if we don't have to approve it,
it should be mandatory for it to be brought to the commission as a whole of this is what the decision is. Not I got an email and then but I I received an email, but then Patrick talked to the city manager and he was able to find out all of this person's background and then
all of that and I only know this much about it because my email was only a paragraph. You love to make things a lot difficult and then I look like I'm I'm I'm going against you and I'm not. All I'm saying is I don't have to go. >> So the email that says this is who I've
hired. You want more detail? >> Yeah. Exactly. This person is responsible for hundreds of employees and then I have to back this person. I want to know where they came from, how they are qualified. >> Well, there's so there's a couple of
points. going going off of what uh Art talked about earlier with how they changed police and fire back in those days. It was extremely political and it was extremely political positions and that is something we do
not want with any of our employees. We do not want them to have political pressure and that's the purpose of a city manager being the the stop gap for employees and then we're on this side. We bring the
political pressure pressure to him and he's the stop gap for our employees and directors so that they don't have to deal with that. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. But then how how if we don't know is there a way and now this is this when when I have my conversations with the
directors when I'm allowed to I say is there a way for us to think outside of the box and stop making it square square hole round peg or whatever that saying is is it a way for us to make it mandatory that the city manager when he
selects or she because we don't know what's happening in the future when the city manager's position when they hire or fire a department head that it is informed by the commission and informed to the commission collectively.
>> I think informing is something we can just absolutely ask the city manager to keep us informed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't like the in the loop stuff. I need for it to be mandatory so it's not an evaluation. I say, "Well, it wasn't fair. I found out at the the the chamber that he had already hire. I
don't want to keep going back to that because what it looks like is I'm always na nagging at city staff, the city manager, and the commission. If it's if it's somewhere in writing, then I have there's nothing for me to argue about. >> Well, it's just like uh early on um I
was blindsided by the media on a couple of different issues that that hit and and I was not happy about that. we we should be informed of major events, major issues before the media
uh comes to us. So I I I agree with you uh where maybe we are not getting uh enough information on who we're hiring um and and maybe they're not presented to us in a timely manner. Um,
>> so one of the priorities after the offer is accepted is notify the commission with resume details, >> right? We need to be able to see not necessarily that I have a say so, but I don't need to be on a well, it's on a need to- know basis and this is just what the decision that I made.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> No, I I I I support you and and and I agree and and sometimes I've been left in the same spot like who's what she's doing what what does she look like? What does he look like? would Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes
>> information based absolutely we need to do a better job on it. >> Okay. So this can be handled if the hiring email provides background and
process information >> to us before anybody else. >> That is that fair? >> Because if you wait until a meeting >> be able to do it in person. No, I just want us all to have the same information. If I go to our city manager
and I ask for additional information, that's on me. If you know something additional, you went to him and whatever. But we should know when, where, how qualified, and then we all have that information. And then I don't look like an inexperienced elected
official, and I'm like, "Oh, I I didn't know he made the decision." But but I will I will say this um that that's when it's incumbent upon us unfortunately to explain to that constituent
how how this city government works. Uh and and and again I think that's something that we don't teach the residents enough. We don't share enough information on exactly how this system works here. Um and what's different
between us and a popco. It's different between us and Orlando. >> I get it. But there's never a time when I should walk in the room and not know that a director was hired. >> No. No. I agree. I agree. >> Never. Ever. Ever. >> I agree. But people need to know that we
don't do the hiring firing as well. >> And that's why we have citizens academy and Lisa does do the the the the podcasting stuff. That's not my fight. My fight and none of it is a fight. I just want to make sure that in my next election season and I'm believing God I'm running under opposed. It looks like
it and so does Carrie is that I have to do less. >> Still got a whole another move. >> Come on. But I'm ready for you. >> I don't have to move. >> Stop rubbing it in. >> I'd be so ready for that fight. Um
>> so we have an answer on that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So under that though um and and this actually doesn't take a charter change I think because I think the state said we can do this um directly and it would not affect this
election but it has been suggested that if only two people are running that the election be held in November rather than August. I have mixed feelings on that. >> What are we talking about now? We >> not in an election, not having our
election in August. >> Yeah. >> If only two people. >> The only reason you join in August is that you need to um have a runoff possibility for >> there's a bill that was put forth to have every single election in November did fail those. I
>> mean, I think our election should be an odd year so that makes But that's a whole different thing. >> Yeah, I like the odd years so that we're not all up for election. >> All kinds of other issues. I But you're saying it needs to go to November instead of August. >> Yeah. >> Mirani. >> Uhuh. Keep that out. First of all, it's
it's a lot less work for those two people. >> Ron office is and and my thing is I'm always looking at people's people's pockets. There's more money you got to raise and whatever. No, keep it at August. They get that percentage then you you have to move on if you don't have that percentage, but it's over. If
it does, that's less less work for that candidate. that that candidate gets to get have a little bit more time to prepare themselves for the position that they're in. And it's a lot less fundraising, a lot less politicking. Y'all know how hard that thing is. I say let's leave.
>> Yeah, we all do. Uh from the public's perspective, you could say that more people vote in November. >> Yeah, that is true. >> That's the that's the main reason. >> Nobody votes in August. It's awful. Awful turnout. If you're comfortable with only having say a thousand people
vote, period, then Okay. >> See, I'm a big fan of a more informed electorate rather than more voters. >> Yeah, I am too. >> But okay, so we'll leave that alone. >> No, hold on. >> No, we're not going to leave that alone. >> Our qualifying period would change then
too, right? >> It could. >> Um >> Well, no, because you got to know whether there going to be three people running or not, >> right? >> Yeah. So be >> it'll be the same qualifying period. >> Why can't November just be our election? >> Well, it was >> November was the election.
>> We need there was a runoff. It was on a Thursday, the first week of December. >> Okay. >> Um where nobody was planning on voting. Um, but I remember that it was me and you know there was like hardly you
know not much turnar around and frantic to try to get it done and nobody's paying attention in December >> and then you take office 3 days later >> and so like oh that doesn't work we should do the election in August so we have November >> because it's too detailed
>> and so the the middle ground that wasn't considered was November if it's two people Well, what if we're forced by Tallahassee to do it in anyway? >> No, we won't be. The bill failed. Although, they could bring it back. Be a zombie bill. >> It'll come back.
>> Have the best. >> Oh, from my perspective, right? >> That's why I like it when it was in March, you only had to deal with the people who really showed up >> and the people that were showing up to vote, they knew who who was running. Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, a lot less um Okay, I just brought that up since that was >> good discussion. >> Are we doing a charter review or not? >> Yeah, I was going to say back to that because a couple times I've tried to look through the entire charter. I see all these reserve spaces. >> Aren't we supposed to do a charter
review to >> There is a recommendation required. >> Oh, okay. What's the recommen? >> So, we are in the recommendation period. >> I think seven. We're a little past recommendation period. >> We don't I don't think we have time to do it for this year.
>> Yeah. >> But the last time I think the review commission was put together in like August for the following year for a vote on the following year. >> So that should be our goal in our goals this year is to start that process. >> Yeah. And that's what we talked about last year. If we want to do one, we
should do it at such and such time and nobody brought it up. So >> and the commission gave them specific instructions, >> right? So it's a matter of what what is it? There are two things. We could either put together a commission and say y'all
come up with stuff which that's risky or >> depends on the >> or you say here are the things we would like you to look at. >> Yeah. Does I mean does anybody else have any this is missing or that's wrong or
>> I don't but I always wondered if which would it's probably not on the chart of review but it's it's ignorance of mine. Do you all remember Arlene when she was here? >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, Arlene worked for the commission and then when she left that
eliminated that position. I'm not saying Okay. I am saying district one is a is a heck of a lot. Art, you know it as well. And this it is growing and it is growing and it is growing. Uh, not that I have more than anybody else, but y'all can all agree that District 1 is a little
bit more in involved. Is it possible? I mean, we can't hire another person, but I did bring this up to the attorney about there being internships to assist the city commission on some of the issues so that
we are providing a better service to our constituents because I know that there are times when I'm completely o overwhelmed with district 1 because my residents, I I'll say 30% are very involved and have tons of questions.
There's no need for me to have a district one meeting because my district one meeting happens twice a month in district 1 which is our commission meeting. My residents do show up. Our lean was an asset but it was not necessary.
Is there a way of looking for assistance to the commission as a whole? Not just district one but to the mayor, to the commissioners, someone to help you stay on track. I do come off a little
aggressive when I'm constantly at a commission meeting and saying the city manager didn't give me this or I didn't hear that. I think it would help a little bit if we had someone to do some follow-ups to I mean I mean our emails are are very
heavy but I mean you can do a public records request. My stuff is it's heavy. Oh, I mean Arlene was and Pamela does Pam does most of what Arlene did. Um,
as far as, you know, what I'm I did, you know, it was mainly um reminding me, hey, you were supposed to send this letter to so and so or you want me to write it for you or um and I get do that a lot with the city clerk's office, too,
in terms of proclamations and stuff. So, I'm not sure I would find another staff person particularly helpful, >> but that's just me. >> Maybe possibly an intern. I'm not trying
to get where we've got to hire and fringe benefits and all of that. But when I I I did take it to um Attorney Green to see what the city's policy is on that, but I haven't followed up on it. But if if it was possible to have um
someone that's in graduate studies working in political science or something like that to assist um the commission I'm saying not just district one Arlene did do that but I did I did know that that position was not necessary and definitely what not
what what the pay was but she had been grandfathered in that position and then when Commissioner W Williams left then you know so on and so forth. But I do think that it would be just a little bit helpful. I mean, >> we have one of the kids on the golf team is seminal state
political science major and she actually asked about whether or not she could do an internship with the city >> except now she's graduating in May. >> I don't know how that really works though because then you that makes you more privy to, you know, elected official knowledge and whatnot and then I'm pretty sure there's always going to
be some kind of hiccup there. But, you know, I'm just just being honest. I could have used some help. And because we are part-time and not I don't think any of us actually feels that this is a part-time position cuz God knows it feels fulltime to me
because it never stops. There is no well, it's 5:00 and I'm done. >> I would say figure out the proposal and bring it in. >> Okay. Well, I I just the way I work it not
going to it's probably not going to help me, but that's how I work. >> Intern just remember the way we do interns here, we actually pay them, too. So, >> um, which I I don't necessarily agree with that either. I think we've lost the
spirit of internship. I've always joked that there's I could never for going to be my assistant because of how how hard the job would be >> or or if if Pam's position I feel I
don't I don't know. I feel some type of way when I ask Pam to do stuff because I'm like that's not her position and I feel so bad. Um because her job is to assist Mr. Bonapart and so if I'm like okay can you respond to this? Can you schedule this meeting through that?
Usually I try to do it my myself. There are some things like last week for the FBC Leo, I said, "Can you schedule the the conference and make the hotel reservations?" Of course, she has to do that because she has a city card. But I'm just if that becomes a part of her position as well, then it's not like I'm
like, "Oh my god, you know, do is it okay for me to bother her?" >> I thought that was part of her >> I think that is part of her job. Martin, >> between her and the clerk's office. Yeah. >> Yeah. I was going to say when position was >> eliminated, it was
>> those two would handle the stuff that we need. >> Well, see, the only thing that I go to the clerk's office for is a proclamation. >> Yeah, there's >> I take a lot of phone call. >> Yeah, I get a lot of Yes, we get lots of phone calls. >> Okay. >> What uh would By the way, you mentioned
something that I haven't done that letter head thing from the airport that they needed done. Oh, that was Yeah. Can you just sign this instead of >> I've never done that. >> Consider approving. >> Yeah. I don't know why they sent it to everybody. >> I don't I didn't do that. >> Well, I rewrote it. >> I didn't reply to it because I don't
have letterhead. I don't >> And I didn't know who to send it to. Do I send it to Tracy? Do I send it to Pam? Do I send it to Nicole? >> Yeah. >> She what? >> She wanted a >> But I thought it was odd that it was sent to everybody. >> Yeah. >> I didn't understand. >> I didn't understand that at all. >> Usually it's just the one. I'm glad you
mentioned it because I was wondering is this a normal thing? >> Yeah. No, that's the first time I've ever seen that I think. >> Okay. >> But see, that's another thing too, handling issues like I don't feel comfortable with just throwing that over to Pam. There are some grants that I want to look for for for downtown businesses. I know we have economic
development, but they're overloaded with stuff. There are some things that I see that that other people might not see. There are things that I I witness when I go to these conferences that other cities are doing, and I'm like, can we do that as well? And I try to navigate those waters as just Commissioner Britain. But by the time I get done with
everybody complaining about customer service, hours of operation, who's not doing this and that, um, >> well, I don't think I I I don't want you to feel like staff is overwhelmed. I want you to feel like staff is here to help us make
this city better. Uh, and so if you reach out to Norton to ask staff for some of that stuff >> or if you just go to staff and say, "Hey, what do you think about this?" They might tell you, "Well, commissioner, we've tried that before and blah blah blah or whatever." You know, there there's a there's I I don't
think there's any problem with you reaching out to staff, reaching out to Norton to help you with some of that stuff. >> Does P3, the other Pam have re uh time? >> She works for two departments. She literally works for two departments. She's economic and community development. I know that because that
was my position and that was a lot of work. >> Oh, >> who are you talking about? Pam >> P3. >> Oh, you're talking about Pamela Lynch or this Pam? >> Pam S. >> She is she P2 or P3? >> We got three. >> I know. >> So, >> Pam Robinson, Pam, and Pam.
>> And then we got the other Pam. >> She's P1. >> And then we got the other other P. >> Well, maybe Pam Mchin might be able to assist more now that the CRA is uh >> maybe. Okay. because I've been curious about her future. How do we >> just me as a fellow commissioner? I don't want you to feel like you got to
do all that on your own. Number one. Number two, that staff doesn't want to help either. >> Yeah. But I want I want if if if if by God's grace I'm elected again, I want my fourth my my second term to really be
effective. I don't want to argue. I want to be able to say, "Wow, like, you know, Commissioner Britain brought this amount of money in. We looked at these kind of grants. We did that, and I just don't have the the time because we're part-time and I have to earn a living myself to be as devoted as I would like
to be." So, if there were some some people to to, "Hey, Commissioner, I looked up these four grants that you were talking about, and this is how you could proceed." I really don't want to be the angry commissioner this next term. I would love to be able to say
these are some of the accomplishments. My only accomplishments have been I have been able to get to the table and get you where you need to be. I would like not to be a firefighter in this second term. >> You're in a tough spot because you have
probably a bigger, more complex district, but not quite enough that we just have to say we need five districts or six six districts. But it's unusual in that there's just more there to do. Um, would an intern and by the way, not
that this is the way everywhere, but typically a co-op is paid. An intern is not. So why are we paying interns? So I don't I I don't think we rule out the possibility of an >> maybe the former HR director's way of doing things. >> Well, former is wrong.
>> Um, but >> if this would be somebody that would do things you could easily train them to do, they wouldn't have to know everything a commissioner does. Right. Right. And some some of them could just be to help, you know, like some days I'm just overwhelmed that I don't get to
share everything that the city shares. Sometimes I don't want to share everything the city shares. I like to share. I'm starting my own newspaper for district 1. Um because a lot of people go with what Art says. My take on what Art says is totally different. He's more teacher wise. I want to do something different. I I I like to think like a
social media person. I like to think like a third grade level education. Art is really intelligent. Everybody don't want to think like that. So I don't want to follow >> they want to. They just can't. >> I don't I don't want to do what he did. I I the people elected me for a reason.
And so I want to make sure that I'm giving as much as as I can to the people that I represent. And I I I was just wondering if we could get a little help on that. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we're looking to unpaid interns and
you're going to you and Claudia, it sounded like had the ideas of structuring what an intern program would look like. >> Let me do some research there. >> All right, then. Um, and I don't know
how deep into the weeds we want to get with this next one. um event cost and sponsorships >> speak. >> I mean at this time. >> Oh, okay. >> At 11:18 on Saturday morning. >> Oh, no, no, no, no. But I I think that >> I don't know. We can just come up with
what direction are we do we want to head? >> I would just like a a a consensus from the commission. Are we leaving it alone or are are we supporting? We don't have to get into how deep, but I think at some point we should say, "Yep, the commission is backing up from this and
you got to find funding on your own." the city cost is what the city costs are or we say, "Okay, yeah, we we think that it is very valuable to us and we're going to, you know, get into the weeds of it or whatever, but it being kind of
up is a big deal." My concern with um that's very important to us and we're going to fund stuff is how do you decide what and if you look at the list of things that was were funded um and the different value were funded at
um you know and whether it was nonprofit or if it was a business actually running the program. You know, I found it interesting after all the hoopla about um Porchfest
that they were able to put together a program with no city fees, >> no special event >> that raised $22,000 on a Saturday >> and almost became PorchFest. >> Yes. And rather than wanting us to pay $22,000 so they could have porch
>> pass. >> Um, you know, I look at it's it's tax money. Do all of our taxpayers want to support events in downtown Sanford? There's certainly some that do. I it's, you know, in terms there's some definitely some economic development,
but to pick and choose which events um, I think gets dicey. So, I could go along with something like, you know, find ways to reduce the cost for events, which I
think we have found some. I think there's probably still some room there. Um, if we wanted to fund a percentage of city cost events for every event, you know, >> what if the, you know, flat policy, but
to say um, oh, we really like this event, so we're giving you $5,000, but um, yeah, that event, you're on your own. I to have a little >> or it's not new and we don't know enough. >> You know, how are if if it's an event that's bringing 30,000 people, do we
really need to help fund it? >> Right. >> So, or do we do a startup grant? I >> I just think either we we we bow out of it or we define what we're going to do. I have no problem with us saying, "Hey, that's not what we're here to do." And
in individually out of our commission things, if we want to give $5 to the for stage, then we do. But at least we know where we're going with it. >> Well, this might be not a bad time to
because of everything that's coming up, how difficult it's going to be, how much we're going to have to look at possibly cutting costs. Is this a year that we could have all these events do a reset and say, would how do we do this without city? Well, they that's sort of where they are.
>> Yeah. >> Year um she mentioned, you know, when they were told that they had to become self- sustaining, they pretty much all did their events anyway. >> So, it's not our money is making or breaking the event. It's making it
easier. It's giving them more money to give to the nonprofit at the end. um you know in which case are we just funding nonprofits? >> Well, so >> I think it's it's let me finish. I I think you know we've got to find a way
to say and show we support events, but I don't think the only way we do that is by giving cash. Well, it's a frustrating um thing because
people are offended. We charge fees, but there are true costs to what the city's having to do for these events. >> Um and so there's some there's some kind of and so what why would the city charge
you for this and then turn around and give you money to help pay for that, >> right? which is why I said one possibility is just, you know, >> we cover 10% of of city cost. >> Yeah. So, I I I don't think uh I don't
think that's a bad idea of um coming up with a with a system of, you know, 10 flat 10% across the board across the board. Uh but um because not every event uses
all the same, >> right? >> Uh things. Uh hopefully the amphitheater going to draw some events down to the park and the costs are not going to be that much, >> right? >> But there's always been Oh, but that's
too far away. We get downtown. Which brings me back to So it's >> part of the business model. It's not the event model which is why >> the green space on in front of the civic center it's such of an important space
>> because that is close enough that you can do things there and people go downtown. >> Yes. >> Then I also think that we should add that then city departments should not be required they well I I think they should be eliminated because then you know what happens next is then they people go to
economic development and the police department. I don't want those departments to then have to go through the same thing whether they're choosing to support events or not. So, it needs to be, hey, 10% across the board and then there is no funding allow for
events or sponsorships because that's where they're going next. >> Well, I half agree with you on the economic development side. I think there are some things that it is worth in terms of the sponsorship value
>> that we might want to do. Okay. >> In terms of we're calling a sponsorship in order to give you money, >> I agree. I agree totally with you. >> Okay. >> Well, so that's an interesting thought. Economic de development should probably have some
funds and they choose. Is that really an event that's going to add to business? >> Yeah. There's there promotions and they do and they kind of follow the same thing as CRA. But again, now that that falls on Pam and Brady
>> to now decide, okay, we're going to give you I mean, I I think that the most they they give is like $1,000, but again, it now is like, oh, there's no CRA, but let's go to economic development. And I know we've been approving a lot more on the consent for police department, too.
>> And I I saw one that I totally didn't agree with, but I left it alone. But we were funding the police department was funding an event in Alimont >> and I but you know it again we don't want this to be
falling onto the other departments. It needs to be the same all the way across the board. >> Okay. >> Good point. >> So are we leaning towards either no funding or a flat percentage of city fees funding? >> Flat percent. >> Yeah. The flat percent. At least we're trying. Yeah. Why are we getting build
$1,300 every month by the farmers market? >> Oh, because we agreed to pay them. >> Because we we pay that group or that person to run it. >> Y >> we had major problems with >> before.
>> Not like what we had recently. We had >> Yeah. when it was a volunte when it was an organization running it and as an event it was >> so 10%'s going to be a well >> that's what they're gonna >> and then before that >> we're including them in this decision right >> no that's contract
>> well they're listed on here >> city staff rated it before >> okay so that contract just >> maybe it's time to revisit how we fund the farmers market because it's certainly um seems to be
have have gotten consistently larger >> and attended as opposed to when we were trying to find anybody to come there and fill in the space. >> So maybe that's a something to >> When was the last time we looked? It was
ran uh economic development first and then uh the Derek Daniels group did it and then project Sanford >> and that's where it's at now. >> Project Sanford is Derek. >> Oh, was he? No, he's no longer >> More from
the welcome center. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then oh two more three more things. Um energy efficiency solar implementation. I've been I've gotten a couple emails and I looked at what Seminal County did. I I
really think there's some possible value in us doing, you know, the floating array or something on our building with solar and that's just sort of like floating around but not being put. Do we want to go after that?
>> I would really like to see us go after that. It's it's cost savings in the long run. It's just a question of when when do we do the upfront cost of putting it in. >> Well, there are companies like one of the company's contacting me, they you know, if we give them a a pond, they'll
build it and then there's a call share back >> a pond. >> Yeah, they do floating arrays. >> Yeah. >> Put in the storm water park. >> Yeah, that's Yeah. >> Well, >> there you go. that we're thinking about. >> No, but um you brought up you guys just
reminded me I've talked about it last year. We didn't do anything. We haven't looked to do anything. We either need to sell off part of site 10 or all of it or find something else to do with it that benefits the city. >> Okay. Well,
>> there's another idea with site 10. >> Okay. You have another idea for site 10? >> No. No. Somebody has another idea. >> Yeah, we have an idea for site 10. Yeah. Well, um we have been approached um to make it a um mitigation bank and storm
water park and water quality improvement area. >> And so we have a couple there are a couple of organizations that are looking at ideas to do that and I would expect something that's coming to the commission in the next couple of months.
>> So we're going to offer up our property for somebody else to make money off of it. No, we will make money off of it. >> Okay. >> Well, and okay, so there's a possibility we would get revenue from the mitigation bank >> and depending on who
>> when the last time we had a project that needed a mitigation b. >> There's no mitigation bank in the lake chess basin. >> All right. Really quickly, what time are we out? >> When we finish. I was hoping by >> don't
pull me could be one >> you know I was hoping at 11 but it's 11:30 >> and there a couple more I mean I I think unless y'all have other things I think >> we can take as long as possible I want to be down on first street >> yeah I my expectation is we're done by
noon >> okay so anyway and I >> you know you know this has been going on and the question has been when does it come to the commission So I guess it's coming to the commission now and to the public. >> Um that there are a couple organizations
that are looking at this. There is possible revenue from the mitigation bank side that we would sell credits and it would be you know we could use the credits, developers could use the credits, whatever. >> Um >> something for Brady to use when he's pushing more businesses to come into town.
>> So there'd be that. Um there it would be a water quality improvement aspect and so you like all the street sweeping sweeping you know the collection of all the leaves that helps us with our um storm water mitigation we would get credits for that and that's
coming up there's the standards are getting higher and higher and so we're going to have to do something um there can be some recreation space trails trails kinds of thing um maybe active maybe passive and so >> um and there's even been the
consideration it could be done like the stormwater park that um Orange County has. >> Yep. >> So those are discussions that are being had. We're waiting for an actual proposal. >> Yeah, like that.
>> But do we have a pond in mind for some floating solar arrays? >> There's the one the current storm water park. >> Which current storm water park? going right there on park. >> Uh yeah, but I'm not sure it's big enough.
What's the one over in >> Goldsboro? Over >> coastline. >> Coastline. >> Either coastline or further up the stream. There's another one >> in Goldsboro. There's two. >> It was done at the very beginning.
>> What about Lake Mini? So anyway, there's some >> So do we want to look at a proposal for that either floating or on a roof? >> I still want a parking structure here in parking structure safety.
>> No, I like safety. >> I love theirs. >> Okay. See, Commissioner Britain is smart like Commissioner Austin. >> He gets outside of Sanford coming together. That is all right. Y'all two coming together
like >> she made it all the way. I don't want >> I know, right? >> She made it all the way to AAA to see the parking structures they have in their parking lot for their employees. >> High school. Can we use that little reservoir lake? >> That's what he's saying.
>> That's an actual lake. >> That's Lake Minnie, ain't it? >> No. >> No. Lake Minnie's over by uh >> anyway >> 17. But we can look at some >> No, Lake Mini is right by some high school. >> Yeah, that's it. like Jenny Jenny's out by um
>> Jenny whatever Mickey Lou >> commissioner staff is meeting with the company to look at putting some on the wastewater treatment >> okay >> good given property is that in I don't
know if it's yours or yours over behind Taco Bell that green space back there room >> yeah my family gave that to Okay. Well, look at y'all. >> We did it way back in like the 20s, though. >> Nice. >> We just never signed the deed. We never signed the deeds. >> Okay.
>> And and the seminal county wouldn't accept it and so we took it. >> Okay. >> Um >> so there >> but no down here >> down Lakefront. >> Mhm. >> We remember that >> and where the um where the public works complex is going, we got a parcel.
>> Okay. Okay. >> That piece was donated to us, too. So that that that green space behind all of that that belongs to the city behind Taco Bell Taco Bell. Okay. >> We didn't have and don't have money to
really develop it. >> There was a an idea of like a pier or something, but that would require cleaning up that entire lake. So that'd be a Okay. So last thing and this is going to
be very brief as in is this something we want the planning department to bring to us and the payment is probably not the best example but in talking to the planning staff when they are going through the PD
process and developer saying we want to do this well you do that and you've got to do this they would like a sense from us of what tradeoffs we favor. Okay. So, um is maximum parking is that the
important thing or is high quality landscaping is that the more important thing? So, they would like a matrix as a guide to as they work with developers, you know, well, if you put a wall, then
it's okay to reduce the buffer or if you want more height, then you've got to So, and sort of put together just some examples >> of the kinds of things they would look that it's going to take some more work.
Um it's we're going to take Elizabeth >> take Elizabeth to help but do we want them to pursue this? >> Yeah. And it's interesting because it seems like it's I hate to use the it depends, but you could have gotten different answers whether you're talking
about we needed to approve more parking spaces at the mall versus landscaping because we didn't want to lose a huge good thing for the city, but you might have other places where the landscaping really is important, >> right? And I that was part of the conversation I had with them that this
can't this won't be a hard and fast thing. It will be a guide >> that we know the commission would rather have this >> and I think I mean personally I would as a guide prefer not to lose landscaping
to have that as a priority. Okay. >> But with the allowance that given the circumstances >> well and the developers always has the ability to say no this is what we want. >> Yeah. >> It's just what happens during the negotiation before it gets dressed. So,
do you all want them to do pursue this and come to us with a work session and a and survey us on it? >> I don't know. It's kind of difficult. I agree with what Claudia was saying, but it everything is basically case by case. So, I don't >> Yeah, it's such a broad thing.
>> Very, >> but bringing this up makes me wonder if we should add something that says certain zoning we should put a limit on 24-hour service. Let me let me uh >> it might be a good idea to have a little
work session with planning. >> Well, I don't I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but >> but you're gonna >> I'm going to put that on a tombstone. >> Remember, she's as smart as you. >> Yeah, you did. You said it. >> You said it.
>> Well, none of Nobody else is calling to see your parking structure with solar. >> You said it. >> Yeah, exactly. I've looked at it and said, "Wow, this is a great idea. >> We should do that in city hall." >> I I am troubled by all these
requirements we put on this stuff and then there's no followup. >> Oh my gosh, you got to have all these trees and these plants and these bushes and this grass and then we never ever go back again to check on that site. We never ever follow up and say, "Carrie,
you let all those trees die." Yeah, >> your place looks like >> you mentioned there's something in here that says you're going to make sure there are no gopher tortoises here. Well, did I go back and see if there were any dead tortoises? >> Right. I felt bad at the last session on
the Costco thing where I kind of snapped at Eileen when she talked about we want it to look like Sam's. You don't want it to look like Sam's. Sam hasn't done a thing to spruce that place up in years. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> see that's the problem. We set ourselves up for Yes. needing code enforcement.
>> Yes. >> So >> although we did planning an engineer so that at least during the process they are now doing >> Yeah. >> So what we'll be doing is add more work, >> right? Really? Yeah. >> Well, I mean this wouldn't add more work. The survey wouldn't add more work.
Every time every time we approve something, we're adding more. job security, >> not like a hundred years ago where somebody built a building and it had their name on it and they wanted to keep it looking right. >> Right. Yeah. >> Well, I can understand the possibility
that they're frustrated after we seem to lead them in one direction and they end up in another or they come back and say, you know, we did everything we're supposed to do here and then you come and overturn our decision. >> We're not overturning their decision. We're making what decisions we can
properly make. how we interpret the plan. >> Okay. So, we're not we don't think this is particular this is not something they should spend much time on. >> I don't think it's it's hard and fast. >> No, >> not not
>> I mean it's going to come before us to tackle >> unless we add something in there about hours of service. >> But you were saying there are certain areas that should not have 24-hour operation. Yeah. >> Well, I still wonder why we can't have better zoning. But
>> even when we use >> even when we talked about downtown, it's like, well, you can't do that. You can't do this. You can't do that. But >> why are we even trying? >> Right. >> Huh. >> I >> The problem is we've got all these mixed use
>> which lets you do pretty much whatever you want because in >> that process we were desperate to get people to want to come to Sanford. We opened it up. >> No, >> now people want to come to Sanford and we're having to struggle with that. >> Why can't we reszone the the opportunity
site? >> We can't. >> That's what they were saying that we would need to reszone it. >> I thought they told me we can't. >> No. >> No. They they said if you want to sell it, you should reszone it first. Right. >> Yeah. >> Which is I wanted to do that while we
were still dealing with Heritage Park. >> Right. >> You want Go ahead. you I don't know which one of you said it but uh having a work session with the planning department I think that's really important because you know as smart as we think we are we don't work in these
departments six day five four days a week like our uh our departments do and I think we could make some better decisions if we better understood some stuff because there are a lot of things that I just I'm like well we just can't do it because that's what the law says that's
what our charter says that's what our our comprehensive plan says and I would like to better understand it so that I can and I think not I but so that we all can make better decisions for um for our constituents but I sometimes our
problem is is that we have to rely on those who who have the degrees who work in that and it it like this last one that we just did that was a lot of work that was a lot of work and because we couldn't really communicate with each
other. It was like, god dog, if I could have talked to Claudia about it, then we could have like really brainstormed and got this done. But then again, I don't none of us have a decision make the decision be ahead of time anyway. All I'm asking is just like we are we allow
a citizens academy, we should be able to have some kind of academy for us for our city. >> Okay. Can you narrow that down? >> A work session. >> She's agreeing that and I >> I like that idea. >> Okay. So then they're going to say,
"Well, what do you want it on?" >> Well, just just our comprehensive plan number one. Um cuz cuz sometimes we we rely on Eene a lot and on Tony. And then sometimes I'm like, um no, we can get a we can get around that. Give you a perfect example, the flag in front of
the museum. Um they I had to sit down with Tony and actually say okay how can we do this the the legal way and he said no commissioner we're not allowed to do this then after you do all of the studying and stuff you're like wait a minute there's room for government speech which would allow you know a b
and c so but because we don't work in that we don't know so we usually just say well our we're listening to what staff says and they say that we can't do that and then we're going through our comp plan and it's it's a lot and then should also try to interpret exactly
what our comprehensive plan is not easy. I'm not a genius and I don't I don't I don't sometimes >> You're as smart as Patrick >> a little bit. >> But I'm saying you get what I'm saying. A lot of times we just rely on staff and I'm like okay well Tony said it and then I'm like well wait a minute what what
about if we looked at FLU1.1 you know? So, I'm just maybe if we had a little bit more education on on planning and development, then then we could help. Even when it comes down to uh our agenda that we receive,
there's always a yes, but there isn't enough. Would it be possible for them to given their experience um maybe come with a summary of where they've seen the most difficult issues
that happen on the day? These are these are the areas that you most often ask us >> disagree with them >> or when we disagree with them. >> No, that's what that's what it is. >> But I mean, think about how many times we've asked Eileen to come up to the deis and what has the topic been? Is
there some kind of a summary that she without too much work, you know, we don't want to put too much work on them, but where does she see the real conflicts happen or the headaches or the confusion and might be an opportunity to
make sure we're all educated on the same kind of planning page given what a commissioner should be educated on, >> right? I don't want to bombard them every meeting regarding setbacks. Yeah. But if I truly understood the the the like the wins and the why this has to happen commissioner and then this is
what has happened in the past and this is the reason why this happening then I don't look like I'm attacking staff and a lot of times I'm like Eileen I don't want to hear about what happened before I'm talking about this specific item and I don't want to look like that to staff. So if we had a better understanding of
our even if we just did a a work session where we just went over our current plan or if we highlighted things help me to better understand that and our I know yes we do have time where we can talk to staff but I have a life. So I would like to be able to do that without trying to
get to staff. Well, I I just want the work this the work session with them to be useful. >> A compreh maybe so telling them give us a lesson on the entire comprehensive plan is going to be longer. >> Yeah, that's what maybe like go through and highlight what items in the
comprehensive plan or >> they know things that we like Claudia was saying they they they've been to enough work meetings to know that they're going to ask questions about setbacks. They're going to ask questions about uh drainage and and all of that.
So maybe we sit here and we go over, you know, 12 bullet points of the items that we hear from developers and we hear from our commission. >> Well, what if what if we had some workshops set up
throughout the year that had planning come in and give us a one Oh, >> what were we just talking about? setbacks buffers. >> No. Yeah. Uh copy the plan 101. >> What if we had building come in do a
workshop? >> Building 101. >> What if we had >> following following what I'm saying? Yeah. >> Um >> throughout the year um maybe >> hey we don't have a lot coming through
right now. It's going to be a light work session. It's going to be a light meeting. Let's have this. It's It's put out to the public. We're doing this. >> Maybe some of the public will come and listen or they'll watch >> and they'll learn with us.
>> Kind of like Citizens Academy, only you don't have to do every single week, right? >> All you care about is utilities. Come to that section. >> Yeah. Okay. Anything else on that? >> I like that. >> Uh, by the way, this >> What's the >> Look at it.
buffers, walls and >> this was an example he had put together actually several pages. >> So I just pulled one of them. >> Yeah. >> You know have us go through and decide and they wanted to sort this out. It's
not ready to do >> get it together. It was here's an idea. Do we want to move forward this or tell them no this is in the right direction? And that's what I heard. It's this is too much work for them and probably a
not enough >> um >> because we still end up making exceptions. >> Well, what we prefer is some training on >> regulations. Help us understand why you >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Made the decision. on the same page.
>> Is that good? >> Yeah. >> Um, >> but to be fair, if if they think that that is something they need from us or want from us, if they think we are hindering their process, then that needs
to be a workshop discussion. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I like it. Was this one shorter than our last one? I think our last one was longer. We wiggled out all my hair. >> I know.
>> Yeah, you have hair last time we did. >> It just dropped. Gravity went under your chin. >> I had one other thing that we might want to bring up, but I think I need to bring it up at a regular meeting. >> No, go ahead. >> No. >> Well, but on the on the comp plan,
>> you got 11 minutes. Are we well this is probably just a planning planning but presumably they are already considering what they're going to have to do with the comp plan given HB180 and 1145 and possibly some other bills. >> Yeah,
>> they have some work to do. >> No need to tell them that. >> Every year they're dumped with new things they have to do. >> Yeah, these are biggies though. And I want some input on any changes they make to 1145. Okay. So, one other thing, um, you know,
generally when, um, we've named something after somebody um or or done something like that, it comes up at a city commission meeting and you have to vote right then and that's always annoyed me >> because I think there ought to be some
time to think about it. Um, I would like us to consider naming the welcome center after former mayor Linda Cune. And the reason being >> she got the building from the county. >> It was a county building. She got them
to give it to us. >> She started the the main street program there for the first first time. >> She did a lot of work downtown and events and cleaning things up. And I think that would be an appropriate um
>> I love that idea. >> Yeah, she did all that. >> Will it be called the Linda Cune Center or Linda Cune Welcome Center? The Linda Cune. We can come up with a name bank or not, but I think >> be called the welcome center anymore while we're doing this. >> Well, we put it back to the welcome
center. >> I thought it was So, we're not the Sanford Information Center. >> No, because nobody Everybody kept calling it the welcome center anyway. >> Yeah. And Main Street's pretty much put that out. So, it's very >> Why would you take that away? Welcome center. >> I don't know. >> Well, because we had changed at the business information center, but it really wasn't in the business
information. >> I've always struggled with that because I don't think it's very welcoming. Number one, it looks institutional. >> Number number two, it's in the middle of the damn downtown. It's not like it's the right >> Oh, you mean it's beginning of it?
>> Yeah, it's a downtown welcome. >> Like it should be a downtown. >> Does that make sense? >> We're already here. Why are you welcome? >> Yeah. Okay. >> If if you if you're planning to make it a more ident identifiable
place uh uh as a welcome center, then I have no objection to it. And that goes to show that I I think outside of my own feelings, um I have no no objection to it. But it should be something that makes you know that it's the welcome center. Just like
now we know that that the Jeff Triplet Center is a sports complex. You need to know that the welcome center is there. >> That's a good point. That's a good point. Can we invest in a sign that it's historically appropriate?
>> So, you know, when you >> Yeah, that would be part of doing this. >> Okay. If we're going to change the name, we can put >> what's going to come out today. I guess welcome center but okay we need to have some other
>> mayor should it be mayor >> maybe people know what the heck the building is >> what's the Betty Smith called Betty Smith or Betty Smith >> Betty Smith >> I think it's Betty Smith >> yeah because William is the Dville >> okay >> good idea
>> all right so our next meeting um either I'll pass the G or somebody else can bring that up >> all right wiggins anything Thomas pass that again on me. I'll bring it up. >> Okay, Britain. >> None. >> Austin.
All right, we are journal of things happening in downtown Denver today. >> There is. >> Yes, there are. So, be careful of the traffic.