--------- So, okay. We'll go and call to order the meeting of the Sanford City Commission work session for Monday, October 13th, 2025. The first item of discussion is Central Florida Urban League. Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the Commissioner, some time ago, the city
donated to the Central Florida Urban League some property across from the public safety complex with some stipulations. We can't hear him. Some time ago, there you go. There you go, babe. The city donated some land to the Central Florida Urban League with the
understanding that they were going to be building a headquarters there or a building that would service the citizens of Sanford. Um, with us this afternoon is Miss Elizabeth Grace to provide an update on where we are with us. So, Miss Grace, good afternoon. Uh, first I want to
thank you all for having me. I know I have met some of you, but I Oh, I uh have newly assumed the position of president and CEO in late January of
this year. And so, uh I am joined here by the chair of our board, Miss Paula Hoington. Um, and naturally coming into the position, I was very excited to learn
about the land gift here in Sanford because as the Central Florida Urban League, it is our goal to serve Central Floridaians and that of course includes members right here in Sanford. And so it
has been a priority and a commitment. I don't know why this keeps doing that. Uh but it has been a priority and a commitment to move forward with the development of the land. And so we are uh engaging in the organization of a
capital campaign so that we can raise the necessary funds to begin work and development of the land. And we intend to put a multi-use facility that has uh administrative offices for the Urban
League. Uh additionally, a commitment uh to have some health facilities where we can provide health um uh services to members of the community, some rooms that will be available for training and
education. Uh and uh so one of those one of the first things we'll need to do is a feasibility study. Uh make sure that our zoning is appropriate, but we are committed and I would like at this time to ask for an extension of the terms.
Since I am newly in the position, uh I want to be able to dedicate uh a year to getting the appropriate funding. I have already begun to speak with funders and partners and uh different um government
relations about how to best build this capital stack, but I know it is not something that uh will feasibly be done by I think it's January of the coming year. So, I did want to request an extension so that we can deliver a
building that allows us to truly build community and make impact. Mr. Mayor, members of Commission, if the commission is so inclined and staff can get with the Urban League and come back with you for a revision because when we made the donation, there was a stipulation in the time that they had to
occupy and build on the building. I have a problem with as she stated, she just came into the position not too long ago and so to be fair and the great opportunity it's going to bring to the citizens of Sanford, I think we should be able to do it. Okay, I'm okay with that. When was the
proposal put forth with that deadline? In I believe it was uh late 2022. 2022. And the gift, if I'm not mistaken, came in early 23. Okay. But presumably progress was being
made before you stepped into your position. there was a change in leadership at the organization and I do think that impacted the project but now that I am in the leadership role it is a priority
for me and I intend to um put my full force behind it. I think it's fair to say for a number of a while there was an interim correct and so that slowed things down. Okay. So um
We're basically uh close to three years in. Um do you do you believe this is a uh feasible project that will will see a completion?
100%. Yes, I do. Okay. Well, I sense a definite positive attitude here. Yes. that uh you can tell us you're different from the predecessors and you are going to make this happen. Absolutely. Because I totally support the Urban
League and everything they do. Thank you. But just make sure we're getting bang for our bucks. Absolutely. 100%. And and you know, it's wonderful. It's an honor to be in partnership with the city of Sanford. So, we want to be good stewards of the gift as well. And you will keep us well informed of
your progress. Absolutely. Okay. I'm good with that. Okay. It seems to be the consensus of the commission to allow it so we can go ahead and prepare a document that formalizes extension. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Nice to meet you and thank
you again for having me. My apologies for being tardy. Thank you. That's okay. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission. Next on the agenda is Miss Elizabeth Jones presenting the city strategic plan. from one Elizabeth to another.
Hello, mayor and members of the commission. Um, like Mr. Bonapart said, I am There we go. Um, I'll be talking to you about the city's strategic plan. Um, we officially went forward with the strategic plan starting October 1st. Um,
and so this is just more of a introduction and kind of an overview of um where we're at um with the strategic plan and what that means for us moving forward over the next five years. So essentially just to be brief um a
strategic plan is a roadmap for an organization. Um it's usually set place over a shorter term about three to five years um that allows an organization to have a united focus and vision to move forward. Um and I like to always
highlight why a strategic plan is important. So it gives a clear direction and focused goals, creates a shared understanding and facilitates change. But on the other hand, a strategic plan or a city without a strategic plan um can result in a reactive not proactive
city um inefficient resource allocation and slow adaptation to change. Um so that's exactly what we don't want to be as a city. Um and that's why um there was such an emphasis on getting the strategic plan updated, worked on and
implemented. And so our strategic plan um as you see here um it was made through a variety of SWAT analysis. So strengths, weakness, opportunities and threats um with our staff members. Um we also use the
employee survey feedback to get the um feedback from our community about what they are looking for us as employees from. Um as well as our employee survey as well to find out what our employees need from us as an organization as well. Um it contains our updated mission, our
updated vision, our values, five priorities and a total of nine supporting goals citywide. Um the plan will be in place as I said over the next five years. Um so every year we will look at it annually just to make sure that there's nothing that needs to be revised because as we've seen um a lot
can happen in just a couple of years. So uh we'd like to make sure that if there needs to be a revision we are uh keeping that in mind. I am just going to highlight um those updated mission vision and values. So the updated mission is the city of
Stamford employees are dedicated to the delivery of a high standard of service. the responsible stewardship of all resources while cultivating a supporting and engaging environment where all can thrive while celebrating its history, nature, and culture. Uh, our vision is the city of Stanford
strives to be a community focused city that delivers exceptional service, safeguards our local and natural resources, and drives sustainable growth while ensuring a high quality of life for all who live, work, and play here. Lastly, and I know I brought this all to
you before, um our we looked at our employee values and we wanted to have it in a way that our employees could remember. Um so that's where we came up with the idea to use an acronym and based off the values that we found were important to us that as an organization, we came up with the acronym care, which
is community focused, accountable, resilient, and environmentally responsible. So a strategic plan without an implementation plan is just another report. So each department within the city uh really helped support that strategic plan. Um and essentially what
we did is we brought the strategic plan down to both the departmental and even the division level. Um because we found in the previous strategic plans that we've had here at the city um without bringing it to that personal level um it can sometimes be hard for employees to see themselves in the strategic plan and
we want to make sure that every me contributing member of our organization here at the city of Stanford feels like they can see themselves in this plan. Um and as mentioned there at the bottom uh we will be logging these updated numbers information uh of the implementation
through our city website, the annual report and the annual budget book. Um we're also doing a citywide roll out. Um, so this includes um making the strategic plan known via um a
newsletter, putting it on our social media, putting it on our website. Um, additionally, we're also getting ready to roll out the care initiative for our employees um where we really emphasize those new values because they're the values that our employees are expected to
uh live within um and work within really. So uh as you see here the city website launched today uh launched today with that information and additionally um we are going to be reintroducing those strategic alignment
items on the agenda memos so that way we can track everything that is bringing being brought to commission and how it aligns with our organizational vision. Um, additionally, we will be doing educational efforts to make sure that performance is not just a management
focus, but also an employee focus like that. So, that's the end, but it's not really. It's more the beginning. So, this image here just kind of helps illustrate that a strategic plan is multi-tered and each
part of the strategic plan supports each other. Um so the vision is supported by a mission, your values, our organizational priorities and then how it aligns to each department. Um and that's where uh the city is looking at how their
performance is ultimately supporting that vision. So everybody's favorite thing numbers. So over the last 90 days uh the city website had um 270,000 views. Um the
following there are just a breakdown of what sites are kind of getting hits and what those numbers look like. Um so you'll notice the city commission page approximately had 0 59% of those views. Um and then the city manager office had approximately 39% which is where um
we're able to see the numbers of supporting information for the city manager monthly reports as well as annual reports. And even the dashboards that connect to the city manager report had very limited views. Um within the last 30 days, one of those dashboards
had, for example, one view made to it. So if that's what we're looking at, how do we get people to listen? Essentially, we have to learn and we have to adapt. Um this means there's changes that have to be made internally as well as externally. Um we're looking at and
working on streamlining those workflows. Um we are removing those repetitive reporting. Um, so that way instead of having to go to multiple reports to get your information, there's one direct place that you can learn what's happening within the city. Um, as well as keeping that focus forward thinking
and being strategic with it. Externally, um, we are looking at reducing and condensing the numbers of reports and dashboards and really focusing on how that information is obtainable to our public. Um, ultimately resulting in less clicks for people to find information
and creating a central location to any progress being made. So we want to focus on quality of data rather than quantity. So the city has asked ourselves why are we reporting and we found that it's to identify areas of
operational success and improvement to relay progress to keep the public informed and ultimately accountability. So, with that being in mind, um we now understand why we're reporting, but I want to talk to you all about how we're
currently reporting. So, currently many of our reports are still very manual. Um they're either logged via a spreadsheet or um you know, collected each month or each quarter depending on what the metric is. Um so, this means that our staff is ultimately taking time to stop
their assigned duty to record and report this information. Excuse me a minute, gentlemen in the back having a conversation. Um, it's very distracting for y'all to be talking while we're trying to listen to this presentation. Mr. Kirchoff, if you are going to have a conversation,
can you take it outside, please? We can. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. Um so uh ultimately though that's where we're at with our reporting but the good news is that we are at the start of our digital renaissance here at
Stamford. Um there is a lot of work um with both my position and with it um where we are identifying processes and the supporting data and the reports that come from those processes. So ultimately what that means is the easier the information is to collect the easier it
will be for us to use to learn from it to report it and to present it. So our reports like I said are kind of in a transition period. Um so the city would like to transition to monthly report from our monthly reports to the quarterly. Um and ultimately this is to
focus on using the written reports and the visual dashboards. Um collecting them at the same time for a full picture. Um we aren't reducing our transparency. Uh instead we are ensuring our employees are allocating their times in ways that are both effective and efficient. Mhm.
Um, as more of our systems and information move to those digital collections, um, the more we as a city can increase the frequency in which we present them. And what that ultimately means is the more of our processes that can automatically,
create reports, display information, and, you know, present it in a way that's tangible and understandable to the public. Um, that our staff isn't having to stop what they're doing in order to do that on a monthly basis. um the more we can prod produce it. Some cities are able to
produce daily updates on some of their metrics and some do it on a weekly or a monthly. I would love to see us be there by the end of our fiveyear strategic plan. Um because that is one of our goals is to move towards that digital transformation as an organization. Um
but as always um our employees are always here to make presentations uh to answer the public's questions and post specialty project updates as requested or needed. So in conclusion a strategically aligned city is a successful one. Um and this
plan belongs to everyone. So we want to ensure that everyone should see and feel how they contribute to our city and to our mission. And that's all from me. So any questions for me commissioners? Anyway, any questions? No, I was just a couple of statements. Elizabeth, you always do a fantastic job
with your presentations and I want to applaud you on that. Everything from it being data driven, clear and precise, and the dashboards we absolutely appreciate. Um, you said like three different times that staff has to stop what they're doing. Um, I don't I'm not going to say I dislike that. It's just a
part of the other duties as assigned. This is something that is necessary. So, I don't want it to seem like they have to stop what they're doing. this is a part of the job correct and this information is vital to us. Correct. So that that was my only little note and I do agree with you and that's where I would love to see us
move towards that more even a more hybrid approach to how we get a lot of our information because the only thing that worries me is reporting fatigue. And that's where you report you know a lot of the same information. That's why we're really trying to both look at what we're
reporting and that's where the strategic alignment really comes into place. um because we're really focusing on the information that we're reporting that it matters. It's not just activities. It's not just the number of something I did because it's easy to get. Um it's to really focus on the important
things that really support where we're going as an organization. Right. So, I do I do agree with you though and I would like to um take a moment and demonstrate um what that new city website So,
in the meantime, um, while I had some assistance getting, uh, the city website up for us, um, I would like to again ask and find out the overall consensus from the commission. um about how our monthly reports are
happening, our quarterly reports um and really where you would like to see us move with those. I'd like the idea of changing to what you think is effective and doable because I would hate to see us go down this good path and then have people
start to think this isn't going to work and then just put it in the dust bin. So I I will trust you to find the right rhythm there when it comes to initially how we establish that. Uh also and I've asked this before and I think I
might have missed it today but I believe it's in your presentation somewhere. It's important to me that we ensure that when people are submitting items for the agenda that they are tracking against our goals. Yes. And that is where um again with moving towards being a digital
transformation in our city um we are looking at those um digital alternatives to our agenda um submissions and I've worked with the city clerk's office to make sure that those items will be able to not only be listed but at the you know depending on how frequently we want
to look at that information we can look at it either quarterly or annually to kind of break down um how much we're actually when we bring something to commission how much of each of those um categories or priorities they really fall under that way. You'll get tired of hearing me bring this up again, but at some point I'll
stop. If it's I love to hear it, so don't worry. Thank you. So, here is the um strategic uh performance page and ultimately um it has the hub of everything that relates to both the strategic plan and it's
going to be now the new home of all of our performance information. So there's no going to multiple pages and not really sure where to find everything. Everything can be located by coming to this central page um as your home. So even with the strategic plan, if you
click that main page there, it brings you to a flip book document that allows you to go through each page of the strategic plan. And once the implementation plan, which we are now merging with the city manager annual report, um that will be available in a
similar format as well. As you can see here, we have down here each of the priorities that allow for more information on each of those priorities. And on a quarterly basis, I'll be checking in with each of the departments on their individual goals that relate to
each of these priorities and updating these metrics here. It's a little small to see. So, um it does say amount of department goals achieved, amount of department goals in progress, and amount of department goals not started. Um, so that way there's a quick overview. Um,
so if you're not really into going into the weeds about everything we're doing, you just want a quick glance, that's what this page allows you to do. You can see quickly what's happening with the strategic plan and where what progress we're making as employees and at the city. And then lastly, I would like to
point out on each of those pages, they link you to the dashboards that relate. So then I did also create a dashboard hub. It provides helpful definitions. So a short glossery for anybody who's not familiar with certain terms they might see used throughout um these pages here. Uh
additional resources include our vision and mission, city manager report, um even the maps that we have provided online for various aspects of the city of Stanford. Um and then on here we have the different dashboard. Like I said, one of the transitions that you'll
see moving forward is we are instead of having a lot of dashboards that that individual niche needs. Um, we're trying to reduce the number of clicks that our community has to take to learn things about us. Um, so we've tried to focus it all here. This one is about our citywide
objectives, which those change about every year to depending on the objective, possibly two years. um where you can then monitor how the department's doing each quarter with their objectives. The other is our strategic performance dashboard.
Um this is ultimately those key performance indicators um that will track year after year um of the progress we're making um or areas that we need to be improving in that we can see with those metrics. And then lastly, uh we do have the
capital project dashboard. Um there's a slight change in how we're doing these uh highlighted projects and I would like to demonstrate that here with I already have it set up. So here we have
um our Mayfair clubhouse. So instead of having another dashboard that has the Gant chart and things like this with the assistant of our GIS analysis, um we've gone through and started making specialized GIS pages um that you can link to and learn more
about each project. Um that allows us to display history of sites, photos of the project that's happening, locations, scopes, your timeline, and various updates. Um, these are still being worked on because we're transitioning kind of from that just
very stagnant um, just bar graphs and pie charts and making it a more interactive and kind of more visually appealing experience to kind of learn about what's happening within the city. And that in short is kind of what is happening with our strategic plan here in in Stamford.
Really anxious to see the result of that. Then presumably you're going to be testing all this from a system performance perspective. Make sure that the drill downs don't take too long to bring up the data. Correct. And that's why we also shift um to using that GIS component because it
does allow us to um by having a whole separate page. It's not bogging down um the GIS page as well. Um so that way again it's not you're waiting five minutes to just see okay what date this project. And if somebody brings all this up on their phone, they're going to see a nice
scalable version of it that still makes sense. Yeah. And that's the good thing about a lot of these platforms is they are mobile friendly. Good. Keep up the good work. Thank you everyone. Great. Any other questions, comments? No, sir. Thank you very much. Just for clarification, Jones is recommending that the city manager
report go from monthly to quarterly, and we want to check in with you about that. Yeah. And again, I think that's fine initially. If it gets to the point where it's the the rhythm's good, the data is coming in, uh, we may revisit that and say now that it's all smooth,
everything's working, you may want to go back to more frequent. And I will speak just my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, and I will speak to that. One of the um objectives that you will see on that objective dashboard is transitioning more of our reports to that automatic reporting system because the more of those reports we're able to
get in a quick and timely fashion um without worrying about reviewing and processing and making sure that there's no human error involved um the more frequently we can have those that information readily available to the public. Yeah, we just want to make sure that we will be able to spot trends and
some trends you won't won't really get an idea of it. It's it's if it's just quarterly, correct? Many fine, but maybe not all. I would I would like for it to not be quarterly. I like the monthly because I don't want to say, well, city manager, why isn't this being done or what's going on with this that and the other?
I'll know with that monthly report what's happening and then there won't be, you know, any accusations or questions about anything because I can clearly see you've you've done this, you've met with this person, you've attended this meeting. Just for right now, in the state that we're in, I would like for it to stay monthly.
Now, Commissioner, just so I understand, are you referring to understanding what Mr. Bonapart himself is doing on a monthly basis? Um, there is one thing that I would like to ask. um is on our agenda memos. We do have the city
manager item uh that allows the city manager um if we transition over with our agenda memo system, would that be an option to present updates for the city manager's activities? I like the way that the city manager is doing it now and then so that I if I can
prepare questions or what have you, I can already see something separately. It's already enough information that we have within our agenda items that we have to decipher through tons of emails. I like that being separate so I can go directly to it without having to search for it. Even though you do a very good
job of making it easy to access. However, right now I want to be able to go to that, print it, go through it. Thank you, Commissioner. So that I'm clear, are you looking at the city manager activity or all the reports that are in the monthly report on all the departments?
State. Okay. So we can separate that and simply provide the commission with the city manager activities for the month. Yes, sir. That's okay. We can do that. That's a good compromise. Two separate issues. Okay.
Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Mr. Mayor. Next on the agenda, the city attorney talking about term limits. Good afternoon, mayor and uh members of the city commission. Um I was tasked with looking at what our provisions are
with regard to term limits for the various boards. And really, I'd like to take this time to get some direction from mayor and city commissioners as to what you'd like to see moving forward. The ordinance with regard to city boards was last amendment amended I believe
August 26 of last year. Pursuant to that ordinance, it provides that board members will serve four-year terms, not to exceed three terms at any time that there is a vacancy due to death, resignation, etc. that the board can
appoint a new member. Um, it appears based upon my readings of the historical analysis etc. It has been the pleasure of this day is to make sure that there is a rotation as to people's ability to serve on various boards and not locking
down boards such as people having permanent appointments or um beyond that three-year term limit. The only uh boards that do not have those term limits are the retirement boards for the police and fire as well as the Sanford Orlando Police Department. And that is
for a specific reason as there's some ongoing litigation and it was the thought of this airport authority airport authority my apologies so that there would be board members to address those. So is there a pleasure to modify the terms of that ordinance this is
where I that conversation just needs to be had for my edification. Attorney Green, here's the thing. Um, I was one originally that was saying we need to give other Sanfordites the opportunity
to be a part of the process to be on boards. As I sit on the other side of the dis and I'm learning that usually it takes you until like that third term for you to actually know what's going on. you know, you're learning the first time, the second time you're probably
challenging some things, but it's that third, fourth time when you're really an asset to that board and it's just when when we take other people off the board, then someone else comes in and they've got to get acclimated to the system. Uh
that can be challenging and we're we we just, you know, experience that with the the airport um the airport authority board. So I, you know, I'm I'm not going to say, well, I've completely changed, but I see the importance of uh board
members being on the board for multiple terms just because you you just have more knowledge. Is there an idea from uh the deis as to if it is to be extended beyond three
years, how long you you'd like to see it extended? I mean, three years, three terms. three terms. I'm not ready to to extend it beyond the three terms. I think you know me either. I'm just saying if someone if someone's taking eight years to figure out a board, then they may not be
the right person for the board. We're not, you know, we do um wait, let me finish. And for like PNZ, we do alternate members so that we have people that are are there learning some along the way even before they need to be on the on the dis. But we've asked for exceptions
to be made for the airport against policy. So I think the policy does need to have some amendment to it. I agree. And it should just be at the will of the commission. I'm sorry, commission. You're okay. You're okay. So So will we
do that with all the board? Well, if it's at the will of the commission to ignore the term limits, that means we don't have term limits. That's that's not ignoring. So don't say that. That's not ignoring. There are always special circumstances like what we're facing. That's not ignoring. Sir,
it it is cuz if you're if you're not following the term limits, did you vote for it when we when when we were discussing? I mean, did you say that you were ignoring the terms when we discussed the airport authority? Mhm. Okay. I don't know if I used that exact word,
but that was what we were doing. So, you were against what we did? No, I I don't remember that. I understood the specific situation with the airport authority. Okay. And that's why we changed we actually changed the the ordinance on that, didn't we?
Yes. It's included in that amendment that occurred in August to allow that. I'm not sure you know there's going to be other boards involved in litigation when where we need to keep board members on. We don't know that.
You have no idea. And to to address that, should that ever become an issue with another board, the ordinance can be brought before at that time. So should such a special situation as
that arise, um the board can take that into consideration, excuse me, the commissioners that all of you can take that into consideration and there can be an ordinance adding another board for that specific reasons. or if you want to come up with a specific list of reasons
that would warrant a departure from the three term limits. Um, but to answer your question again, Commissioner Britain, as to not knowing what's going to happen, the ordinance can be amended at some time should that issue arise with regard to another board. And what
happens, um, attorney Green, if we have a board where we just don't have any residents that want to be a part of that board and the the existing board members are still there and still want to serve, what those board members can continue to
serve until there is a reappointment and that is included in that ordinance. Thank you. And I think that's why the um retirement fund boards are excluded from that. That is correct. We always have trouble finding people to
serve for this. Are there any questions or would is it is it the pleasure to leave the ordinance as is and should any special circumstances arise we can discuss uh amending the ordinance as
that if it's appropriate or is there some discussion about any amendments that you want to continue? I just wanted to clarify because I was checking with the city clerk. You said four terms not to exceed 12 years. Is that correct? Three. No, three terms. Three terms. And right now we're only speaking about
one board, right? As far with term, no two gentlemen want to come. Well, we were talking about all the boards. Okay. Whether we want to apply this to all the boards. I don't have a problem with applying it to all the boards. Did we have applicants uh for the CDBG
advisory board? We had two. We have one. Yeah, we opened it. Um, and both on CDBG, Chris Lemon and Shane Libridge have both termed out,
right? I know both of them want to come back, right? Yeah, we have one applicant and we only had one applicant. We have two. Carol Cohen, which I believe Claudia, you know her?
Yes, I do. And um the other is Daryl Bird. I don't know who that is. Who was the other one? I don't have that. I don't we don't have a Daryl was a late addition, but he was And then Joseph Oldak put down all the
boards. Are we moving from that decision to discussing candidates? I don't have the history of the problems we've had there. So, I don't feel strongly about weighing in on this term
limit issue. I think if we have term limits now and we have a process in place to say we vote on an exception with legitimate reasons for doing so and that can always come before you again should you have a situation as you
had with the airport authority. um if it is your pleasure to mull it over and then let me know at the next work session if there's some particular changes that you'd like to see. Oh. Oh, no. We've we've been talking about this board. We've mold enough. Mold it enough. Um I I mean if if there
was not anyone that wanted to be on the CDBG advisory board, I would love to reappoint Shane Liybridge and Chris Lemon back to the board. Um I I believe that they have a very good knowledge of um that board. However, I'm going not
going to prevent anyone else who would like to be a part of that board. But I don't I also don't want someone just just checking all of the box just so I can be on a a city board. But if you have a a strong interest into something, you've you've attended some of the board
meetings, you you really like they really want to be a part of of making change, being involved, then I don't object to that either. We only got two for that board. And I mean with what she just said, we won't
know that until we talk to these people. I mean, well, that's that's something we need to discuss. Are we going to talk to them or not? I I don't believe you just we only got two people just uh just throw some people on there and just call. We don't know what they
got what they tell you. And Mr. Bird has expressed an interest in that or the CRA. Uh Caroline really wants to serve. Uh but I think she's a little flexible on which board. So if you think the two existing people are willing to come back
to come back but both of those are my appointments. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I am not of the I'm not leaning towards reappointing um because of the term limits. So I would like to interview and since it's my appointment, I can interview them separately or we can have them come
in. They can come in. Can we we do a lot of stuff up here that just just waste time. And so if we're going to do interviews, can we actually ask questions that
pertain to their experience and knowledge that might pertain to that board, we normally go, "Hey, how you doing? Okay, you live here?" "Yeah, I live here." "Okay, you want to do this?" "Yeah, I want to do this." "Okay, thank you for coming in." Yeah, I agree. I think I I agree too. That's my uncomfort.
All right. It's a waste of mind. It is. And theirs. And theirs. Um I totally agree. I want to know what you know, if you're going to serve on the airport authority board. I want to know what experience you have in construction projects. I want to know what you know about
aviation. What do you know about the FAA? Uh what do you know about the state of Florida rules on airports? I want to know what you know before I just go, "Ah, okay. You want to serve? That's okay. Thank you.
I've been doing this a long time now. Like you, but we have an opportunity to ask those questions. Yeah. It always seems like we're not allowed to ask those questions. They're canned. I'm always wishing somebody would ask them questions. So, I have to try. All right. Then I'll start asking them.
Okay. So, we So, we pushing this off until we interview these folks. We're not discussing whether to appoint anybody right now. We're discussing about term limits. Term limit. I say we leave term limits as they are. But I'm one
and I just I say it should be up at the willoo commission. If you say that it's ignoring it, then hey that's there there. So I don't want to go down this rabbit hole right now. There there's a delicate balance between having experienced, knowledgeable people
serve on our boards and having people that just want to be a part of something. Um, I appreciate everybody that steps up, wants to serve, but we have some really, really
malfunctioning boards in this city. Uh, and I think we need to discuss about maybe eliminating some of them. Okay. Uh, but that's a different discussion for a different day. Not right now. If you're worried about term limits, if you really think term limits
are so essential, then then we will leave them. I have been here for nine 10 years now. Term limits have never been really a standard we've held anybody to. and
we've made exceptions. Um, and so and and and we have some boards where we continue to have a problem getting people wanting to serve or actually fulfilling a term. Mhm.
Um and so I I I I don't feel like we are like uh like in a position to to kick people out because oh you you did your two terms, you did your three terms, see you later, take care. I don't feel like we're in
that position. I agree. I wish we were. I wish we had dozens of applicants for every board. Um, I'm not sure we promote it well enough. That's a different discussion. I'm not sure we explain well enough what each board
does, what your role on the board would be. That's a different discussion. Like I said, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but I already have. Yeah, I think you're in it. I can keep going. You want to? Yeah, that's okay. The reason I wanted the term limits in
the first place was because this commission never took anybody off a board that wanted to be reappointed. That's true. And there's there's been a few times when I thought we should have taken people off. That's right. But we never did. But nobody up here ever wants to be the bad guy.
Every day I'm the bad guy. I think I've asked the question before. that four years is too long to attract people to join the boards. Does it matter if you tell them their term is four or two or three? Has Mr. Lemon or Mr. Liberty 12 years?
We've had a few boards where we have attendance issues. Right. Um and so even on attendance issues, I don't know as if we shouldn't be checking those by the end of the year and going, "Well, you know, and we're supposed to." Yes.
We were asking the question if the two members of the CDBG had exceeded the 12 years because the attorney green had said for terms not to exceed 12 years. Neither one of them have exceeded the 12 years. It's three terms. Three terms. Three terms. So you have four terms. What happens when I write? So fast.
No, that's okay. I apologize. Fouryear term, four-year term, you cannot exceed three terms. A board member who you're still trying to fill their position, their seat can remain on that board until someone else is reappointed to address. Commissioner,
your question about absences. Three unexcused absences in a 12-month period is a resignation pursuant to those changes that were adopted in August of 2024. We've never had that clear either on the
boards. Um what is an unexcused absence? Right. Right. Well, at the beginning of the boards, typically what will occur is the board will vote as to whether the uh absence is excused based upon the information that the board member has provided prior
to the meeting as to the basis for the absence. and then the board will vote by majority vote as to whether that absence has been excused. So it's all in the minutes. So again, you have the ability to to review those absences and determine from the minutes if they're
excused or unexcused and whether that individual shall be should be removed and it deemed as a resignation. There are also other um criteria for which to remove a board member that you have the pleasure based upon those amendments that were made. mouth not taking their
responsibilities. There's a list of matters that we can get into, but you also have that ability as well, commissioners. Yes, ma'am. Do we track attendance? Each board secretary is supposed to should is supposed to. Yeah. Yeah, they're supposed to, but is it
coming to us include that with the applications if they wanted to be reappointed? Yeah, it it doesn't get to us. Sounds like we might need a report of absences within the boards.
Well, oh, I don't care. Um, even if it's excused, if you continually are not able to perform your duties, I have a problem with that. I think it just be absences, not excuse absences, don't excuse absences, but that's what
we put in there because we all up here got jobs and sometimes I mean our livelihoods I mean I don't think that it should be excessive but it should be excused if if especially these are people who are volunteering their time and we are
part-time uh elected officials who actually work full-time. It should be excused. Let's not get by ourselves. You can vote to not excuse it too. The board may vote to deem that an absence is not excused. Also, with
regard to those criteria that you can consider in uh removing a board member is malfeasance, dereliction of duty. And so if you have someone who is routinely absent, then that would likely fit within that criteria for the board for that to come before mayor and
commissioners for your consideration for removal. Yeah. Well, then that sounds like moving forward, we need to start having reports. Yeah. Yeah. We know we get
sitting on something. We don't know. But, uh, moving forward, what we're going to do, I mean, like you said, those are your two guys. So, right, I would like to interview others. If y'all want to be part of that interview, that's fine. Otherwise, I can
call these three. There three now. Yeah, there were three of them. Some Zoom interviews. call and talk on the phone. Be interviewed if one of those goes off. Okay. You want to do it at the next work
session? Next work. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, bring in the people for CDBG. Do you want that to include Mr. Lemon? I don't think it needs to, but Okay. I mean, they can come if they would
like. and has three consecutive terms, right? It doesn't prevent them from being reappointed later. That is correct, which we have done. Um, so we're going to go ahead and do interviews for other boards that day. Well, do we want to go ahead and talk
about the other boards since we're in the middle of it now? Sounds great. I mean, airport authority, I'm I know who I I'm pretty much know who I'm I'm going to to support on that. I don't know if we need to bring eight or nine people
in for interviews. We have on Davis Green, Groves, Jefferson, Seammens, Serg, thank you, love and ble.
Yeah. My recommendation there will be Emry Green. No, I would second that myself. So, no. No. I've had to ask Miss Green to send him a letter. Nicole has done a phenomenal job running that board. And when we had our joint meeting, I saw
nothing but positive things. Them saying a nine out of 10, we do not need that. No, no. I I I I will not meet with that gentleman without SPD or an attorney present. I do not want that's in my
district. I do not want that board to be disrupted by that that No, no, no. Yeah, I don't see that that would be What do you mean? Huh? What do you mean just written in the board? No, I'm I'm saying there is a cohesive
there. Nicole is run doing that with a great job. doing a phenomenal job and again when we had our joint meeting everyone was on one accord she speaks up on then she would have to speak up for him but I'm saying with my experiences with
Mr. Green I have be even before this meeting I have asked attorney Green to respond to Mr. green because of just the nature in me having to meet with him to discuss the Midway Coalition, the Midway area. Um, I've already stated that, you
know, he's spoken with the mayor, with city staff, with the city attorney. It is always agitative. I feel inferior. I can't I do not want to put that on that board. I cannot. They're going through way too much right now with litigation,
staying on top, and you know, I that that's an absolute no for me. And I never object to board members, but I cannot do that to the board. And that is literally am I lying, Miss Green? I've asked I've sent you an email and asked you to to send a letter on my behalf
that I just I cannot I that is correct. I did get that direction and and concern from Commissioner Brit. And um mayor and commissioners, I just want to make sure I understand where the discussion now is going. Uh is there a discussion to are
we attempting to vote on board members or what? No, they were just saying who they would recommend. I think we're deciding who we would call in for interviews. Okay. Okay. I mean, I've never had anything but positive interactions with Mr. Green, and I know he's had very positive
relations with the airport authority. So, yeah, me as well. I would recommend um unless there there is some criteria that everyone be interviewed and then board
commissioners and mayor express your concerns after those individuals have been interviewed. Strongly against it as opposed to cutting someone for the list. Yeah, considering the fact that we have six six or seven people for one position and
we have very differing opinions on this, I think we need to talk to them. I'm all for that, but not just appointing. But let me ask you a question. What about the residency uh requirement? Which which boards do we have that on? Which board?
He's not a resident. Which which have residency. Okay. Airport. Okay. So, you're hard you're hard on term limits, but you're not hard on residency. Exactly. It's state.
Yeah, that's state law. And as many people do, I think of Midway is sort of Sanford. Just because you think of it, that doesn't mean it you can't vote for it. They can't vote for you. This is true. Okay. Stay clear. Well, I would certainly like to have somebody on there who represents the
interests of the Mayfair community since they are so directly impacted by everything that happens at the airport. May the midway midway. I mean, Midway. I got Mayfair on the mind. He's very involved in that. So, I just don't want it to become a
platform for separate agendas. Okay. So, we're interviewing everyone. I counted 36 people total for all the different for all the boards. That' be next. We don't have any we don't have any openings on some of them.
There are 21 people we have applications from. Oh, that's right. I double counted a couple. It's okay. 21. Um, but we don't have a PNZ open, do we? We do not. We have CDBG. We have historic preservation, the airport, and
then we need to talk about the Sanford Housing Authority. Didn't I receive an email today that someone else Sarah resigned from Sarah Core from the HPV? HPB HPV and um she had some personal reasons and then the other two did not
wish to be reappointed. Yeah, we have three positions and we have eight applicants for HPB. We have a lot of applicants for We didn't advertise that we had any openings. Actually a lot of applicants for
how many for authority five including the guy who put everything. So we're going to interview everybody that picked a board that we have openings on. Is that correct? Is that what you
recommend, Lindsay? Okay. I think where we have more applicants than openings, we should interview them. Okay. Because we're obviously not going to sit here and all agree to one person for every single one. So, that work session is not going to last 30 minutes,
right? It's going to take it'll probably take the entire work session. Yeah. Yes. It's a special work session. We need to talk about that, too. How often I mean, is this Maybe that's when we happen that doesn't happen that often where we have this many openings and
this many applicants is when the the openings that run from October 1st to September 30th. This is that time we have that extra work session on the books that we're going to use for the city manager evaluation which will not be ready but we can do it then if y'all
want to do that. It's tempting. I forgot what the date of it was. What was the date of the Next Monday. The next Monday. I mean, if we only do this once a year and we have this many applicants and
they really want to do this do it all throughout the year. We do. True. Yeah. But for this kind of that move or relocate or drop off for some reason throughout the year, but not
like this. Yeah. We don't have 21. No. Yeah. I mean, eight for HPB, five or six or seven for the airport authority. And then you have the ones who check every box,
right? Right. Yeah. We should change that to rank your top however many. We tried. Oh, okay. We had them list top three at one point on the application. So, the um work
session for next Monday was originally scheduled for 5:00 pm, though. [Music] He didn't want to do any of this, so leave him out. A five or a four? Five. Five. Okay. Five works better for me, too. So, I
will call and set up interviews for the 20th at 5:00 p.m. Okay. And then housing authority that we had there was another exception we made.
Yeah. And that kind of washed away with Mr. Thomas. I So I see one number of housing authorities here. I don't know where they meet. I don't have a They meet at the safety building. So if they're going to lose five people and we talking about I mean does anyone
want to be reappointed? Mr. Hill, can we ask them? I mean they're all term limited out. I know. Do any of those you ask? Do any of those on your board want to um continue? I know they've termed out. Do you know if any want to stay?
Um I haven't heard of anyone that expressed any interest in not participating. Keep in mind that Commissioner Thomas are new in
Okay. And I don't have the names of any of those people on that. You know their terms of what are their terms of this? Because I thought that was less than four years ago did that. How does Tracy not have the names of the people on our board? Like how do what?
Yeah. That I have not I don't know anything about the Stanford Housing Authority. There's something wrong there. I don't get agendas. I don't get minutes and I don't Okay, we need to address that. Okay, then I will work with you
on that and I I don't know what happened. What is my cousin doing over there? [Music] Again, I'm going to say this. Nobody knows we have openings on boards.
Well, I don't know that we have. That's why we have a limited number of applications. Yeah. Do we need comm to come in and do a board fair? And HPB was recruited. I put it out or I have communications put it out on all our social media, what
boards are available, how many positions there are, and then I give a description of each board. Has that been done recently? Yes, I've seen it. Yes, that's where a lot of these then I missed it. Okay. New ones came from. A lot of these new ones came from word
of mouth. And I agree with that. And the way this city runs. Now, we did have the first go round, we did have an issue where they were being filled out online, but going into never never. Yeah. Online is not working. Well, then they fixed it, so it was
working and I got a bunch of them in. Okay. Well, housing authority is Philpot, Ping, Moore, Roberts, Thomas, Tillis, Williams, and they're all have expired their terms, I believe,
aren't they? Well, I thought we did that less than four years ago. Yeah. Well, we just need to research and come back to it. We'll look it back. We'll figure it out. I will look into the Sanford Housing Authority as to and I'll work with you,
Madam Clerk, till we figure out who was appointed and when. Do we not have a staff member that handles that anymore? It seems that would follow Miss Osburn would be the staff liaison
to that board. Okay. So, we're going to straighten out who's on what board, when their terms are up, who's keeping track of attendance, and we're going to do interviews next Monday, 5:00 next Monday.
Okay. And the performance evaluation to be rescheduled to some other we had that came out. There was a date that came out for that. Was it the It was the first Monday in November. It
was a regular work session. What? Okay, we'll find that email and confirm it at the late at the 7:00 meeting. You didn't wait. I mean, talking about the performance
evaluation. We had rescheduled when our evaluations were due and Sharon sent out an email with the new schedule. I do not remember off the top of my head when that was. And
we can look that up and talk about it. Make sure we're all aware of it at 7 o'clock. Okay. All right. That take care of everything with boards. Yes, sir. Okay. Community Planning Month. Good afternoon. Afternoon,
city commission, city attorney, city manager. I'm Eileen Henson. I'm the director of the planning department and in recent months over the last even year or two this commission has provided feedback to the planning department as to some of the things they want to see
changes whether it's in the dollar store changes architectural guidelines amenities in our subdivisions 40 foot lots flooding issues all of those things so I wanted to take the opportunity to um speak to you today given that it is
community planning month tell what community planning month is, a little bit about the planning department and the direction that we've been trying to take and just give you a little bit of insight as to where we're trying to take the city. So, um, community planning month is
national. It's celebrated every October by the American Planning Association. It honors the essential role of planning in shaping strong, vibrant communities that reflect local goals, values, and priorities. This year's theme was building stronger, more resilient communities.
So, what is planning? Generally, I know this commission knows what planning is. We review things every meeting and on occasion, I even give you a break, but um in general, it's a collaborative future focused effort that
guides community growth that supports long-term quality of life. So we leverage various things like land use, infrastructure and public space to create resilient, sustainable community centered places and we preserve in Sanford our history while improving the
quality of life now and for the future. So who makes up the planning team? Maine the director um underneath we have four that I would consider in the planning realm. We have our historic preservation planner Julie Adams Scoffield. We have a senior planner,
Josephine Medina, who's been with us for I think two months now. We have Darren Eversol and Sam Goodwin as our planning technician. In the engineering portion, we have our planning engineer who also serves as the
city engineer. He's Prince Bates. And then we do have an inspector thanks to this commission who got us an inspector back last year. That would be Brandon Meyers. Um we also I feel have a contingent of our department that's our management. We
have our planning manager. He does the project as they go from start to finish. Helps manage with staff and making sure that everything follows through with our compliance with all the state statutes as well as our regulations. And then we
have Mr. Christopher Smith who is the PowerPoint extraordinaire but um he does project managing and I like to think of him as the bridge between our public works utilities and other departments parks included and the
planning department. He does the capital projects and he manages all those projects with those other divisions. So he's both intricate in planning as well as sort of a liaison to all those other departments. And then in the administration, we have our administrative coordinator, Juliana
Pierre, and our administrative specialist, Kaylee Cochran. They, everyone except Prince, joined us last meeting when we did the um resolution, no proclamation for planning month. And so now you kind of have a name and what
each one of their roles is. So what do we do? The Sanford planning department. We manage growth and development in line with our comprehensive plan. Comprehensive plan is a large document sets out the various sections that help us guide the
development for the city and includes this giant future land use map that very colorful and means a lot to us. So we also review zoning site plans, development proposals. We do public hearings. We do subdivisions. Everything
that comes out of the ground probably started in planning. So we engage stakeholders and residents in community meetings in public hearings before this commission as well as planning and zoning commission, historic preservation board. We
guide the development whether it happens or not. Some of the things on that board um something happens Um, okay. Well, we engage I don't I lost the page in my PowerPoint. We engage residents and stakeholders in various
meetings, including this one. So, we promote resilience, equity, and long-term sustainability. Whether it's from flooding, adding solar, encouraging community gardens, or just clean up after large events, the community comes together, and we are
very resilient as a community. And a lot of that boils down to how we plan for that long-term sustainability. We coordinate with internal departments, external agencies on housing, infrastructure, transportation. These are just a few of the agencies we worked
with from the Orlando Sanford airport to the St. St. John's River Water Management, all the various state departments, regional planning council, Sunrail, Metrop Plan, all of these various committees and agencies that we work with to help the planning in
Sanford move forward. So, um, we also preserve our historic character. We have four historic districts in the city of Sanford and the most recent ones being added having been the two that are in Georgetown. And this
map gives you an idea of how much of our downtown does fall within a historic district of one type of or another. Um we use those to preserve our historic character, but we also support smart growth. The buildings on the right are
new newer um projects that are supposed to be working through the city. So let's talk about population. The population at Sanford has grown over 70% in the last 25 years. It provides for a unique set of challenges undertaking that much
growth in that short of time. Um it also provides us a an opportunity for us to move forward in a different manner. So we have to have a shift in philosophy. 20 plus years ago when you
know the original of that statistics for the population we focused on filling vacant land minimal design standards. All development any development is good development and we are now shifting toward more awareness of the infrastructure impacts
aesthetics walkability and preservation as we develop the city. We prioritize contextsensitive communitydriven resilient and sustainable development. We are trying to move forward in a positive manner since we are now the place to be.
So, we're planning for the for progress, not just filling space. We're expanding our mixeduse and mixed income housing opportunities. Just looking at the aerial that's there. It's actually later on the agenda tonight. Um the Thornbrook subdivision is before you for an
amendment, but that's a subdivision that has town homes. It has single family that is 40 foot lots, 50 foot lots, some of them are even larger. Just south of it is a storage facility which is a commercial and warehouse. We've got apartments all in this one small area.
It is a mixeduse area and that's the goal to kind of hybrid the uses, not all one use in one area. So you can see off to the left there's both commercial and industrial as well. So we're expanding our mixeduse and mixed income housing
opportunities. We're preserving historic assets and increasing green space through improved amenity packages in all of our subdivisions and our apartment complexes. We're building resilience through smart sustainable planning.
And then we're working on comprehensive plan updates reflecting our current values and future needs. We've hit a bit of a roadblock with Senate Bill 180, but we are we are working toward making those changes and when we can move forward with them, we will, but we are
definitely working to reflect current values as well as future needs of the city. And then we're enhancing safety and connectivity with our multimodal options. Everything from Sunrail to the airport to all of the expansive trails that we're running through the city. So,
we're doing planning that reflects Stanford's identity. We're doing downtown revitalization. We've seen the many businesses downtown that we have seen in the last five or 10 years go from where we were on First Street and Second Street to some of the more um the
apartment I mean the the restaurants and and things like that. We've got a much more vibrant downtown. We're preserving our historic character even though we're doing those revitalizations. But we've also got the Riverwalk, the park, and the trail expansions. We've put a lot of time, effort, this
commission, and money into things like the Riverwalk to connect that that walkability. We're doing new housing, commercial, and industrial development all throughout the city. We're working on zoning updates. We have more schedules to update than we have staff to update them, but we're moving as
quickly as we can. We're promoting diverse, mixed use, walkability, and economic stability in those updates. and we're doing community engagement events, whether it's participating in Main Street or the Georgetown steering committee or assisting developers in
doing CAP meetings or just public hearings before these commissions. We do community engagement throughout for all types of development. So, we are looking to develop and build a better Samford. We've established clear
consistent development standards and they apply to everyone. We're prioritizing quality alongside growth by upholding those standards. We're making decisions transparently in alignment with those adopted plans. We're ensuring fair and consistent treatment for all
applicants. We're balancing growth with preservation so progress respects our past. We are planning for the long term, not just reacting to short-term pressures. And we're listening to the lived experiences and community input in various open forums.
So, it's a little a little bit of a PowerPoint to kind of tell you what types of engagement the planning department has to do on a daily basis. Um, next meeting I hope to come to you. A few meetings back we talked about the
urban infill projects that we do and the board wasn't quite sure where we are with urban infill and what those regulations mean. So, we've been trying to put together a really cool presentation that has um before and after pictures of all kinds of things that we've done with that
urban infill. But other than that, I don't know if anybody has any questions. I thank you for the opportunity to just tell you where the planning department is and what we're trying to achieve. Anybody have any questions? I have I have a couple. Okay. Um do you feel that you are underst
staffed? Yes, but you know I don't know what department doesn't. Okay. Um do you feel that um there are uh outside options to help your staff that
we aren't currently exploring? We have explored outside options in the past and people that aren't on staff don't care about the development the way that staff does. like
it's you give it to an outside consultant and they have a you know a pretty book or they give it back or they do a plan review but they don't know the ins and outs of Sanford. They don't know the needs of a given community. They don't know those types of things. So outside
outside sources are sometimes good to do a consultant a report but even some of our more recent stuff we've been trying to do in house just because it's it's important to know the community that you're developing for. That's what I say all the time. Okay. What about but what about some of
the initial uh early steps? Uh I'm I'm continually getting uh complaints of of how long it's taking to get stuff through. It's been recommended to me that we we consider
charging an expediting fee to use those outside sources. Staff would still have the final word. Staff would still have to review it, but at least it would get it moving. We have stuff just sitting and waiting. And I I I really think
I don't want to wait for this uh this latest study to be done. I want us to start thinking about what we can do to to to be a little bit more efficient and and productive. Does that does that make
sense? Let me ask something to clarify because I know we you can pay outside plans reviewer and outside inspectors. Are you saying you can pay for outside plans review? Yeah. Yeah.
I mean it. So I understand you want staff that knows the city, but I'm not even sure some of our staff knows the city. Um because they're a lot of Are they city residents? Do we do we hire just city residents?
No. No. Okay. Okay. I don't. But but if they're working here, they get to know the city, I would think. Only only if they're allowed to get out of their office and go see the city they're working in. Okay. Um,
but it this a lot of this stuff is is is in in all that stuff you bring to us to change all the time. It's black and white, right? Your plan, your your LDR, your all all your stuff is in black and white.
Somebody from the outside could look through that and see if if some of this stuff meets some of those basic standards. uh to to get some of this moving along and then your department would still have a final say, but but uh maybe we
don't have the quagmire that that we sometimes have. We don't always have it, but sometimes we do. Um much like the building inspections and and the other stuff. Um
it it's it's just a it's just an idea. Um, I want us I want us as a city, as I've wanted for a long time, to start thinking outside the box, to start being
more proactive, to start being more efficient, to start being uh more productive. Um, and so if there are if there are options out there that we could pursue, I would like us to
consider pursuing them. Okay. Your boss just came to sit behind you. He's going to strongarm me and bully me. Um, no. I mean, if there were options, but options also cost money. So,
but we would we would charge that. we would charge that money. It it's not something we would absorb. We would charge that fee. Um it's just it's just an idea. Um and and I think it's long overdue for us to
start taking serious looks at at doing uh doing things. What is the what is what is what is the slogan for the airport? Something faster. Okay. Thank you.
I would I would like this the entire city to to start being that. Go ahead, Mr. Roundo. Well, wait. I want another clarification. So, I I want to develop something and I come in and
submit my plans and say I would like an outside reviewer to review, you know, site plan, landscaping plan, no, those kinds of things. And then after they review it, it goes to staff for a final review. Yeah. But it No, it's I come in. Uh, how far
out are you are you right now? And I know that we have the what is that 30 days? Yeah, we have state statutemandated review times for one. So, they go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Right. And it depends on the applicant. A lot of the issues depend on the applicant,
but we have a twoe review cycle. If the applicant submits the correct and accurate information, they're through the process without complication. A lot of our issues are just the the quality of some of the materials that we get. It's very challenging to
work with an applicant that you know then it goes back through review cycles several times and that that does create a challenge. I so um I understand that and I am very well aware of some of those examples
but I am getting these uh complaints from people who do tons of projects um all across the state and and are you thinking that those are getting
bogged down in the time it's taking to do the back and forth with people who aren't as knowledgeable by that limited staff you have. That that very well may be true. Um so they they are willing to pay an expedited fee to get it to get it looked
at by an outside person and get it moving. Um and this is somebody who has done a fantastic project here in this city. I think the mayor's even seen this project. It's a fantastic project and he
wants to do more. But that was a suggestion and an idea and I thought it was a really good one. Um, and he does projects all across the state, not just in Sanford. Um, and and and we have we have some locals that have done projects outside
of Sanford and have have ran into similar issues. Um, I'm not here I'm not here to denigrate staff and that's why I asked you in the beginning. Do you feel you're underst staffed? Yes, I do.
Well, I know that's part of the problem. Right. In part the development review process is not just planning though. It's planning utilities, public works sometimes, right? I mean, it's so the holdups aren't always in planning either. I know that.
So, right. I mean it's a team effort throughout the city to do the development review. Well, it's I it's not an attack of course. Um all I would like the presentation was
great. It was just under the building a better Samford number three was the only one that I didn't agree with because of I just wish that there was some consistency. Um, what I admire about Tony and I have to meet with him all the time, but he
always says, "Commissioner, this is the statue or this is the rules. It can be changed, but it has to go before the commission." What I get tired of is always having to come to the table to get the answer. I would hope that staff, department heads, everybody could work
on the, you know, the same team so Commissioner Britain doesn't have to come to the table. That's my only issue. If it's a no, then it's an absolute no. We cannot do it. If it's a yes, let's figure out how we can get to that yes without me having to come take my time out of my day, ask for time out, time
off of work to say, how can we get this accomplished? Then it's accomplished. That's what aggravates me the most about planning, utilities, every department when it comes to those things. What Tony will tell me as commissioner, I hear what you're saying, but this is what the rule says, and if it's a yes, it's a
yes, it's a no, it's a no, and I have to respect that. But there have been many times when I've came to the table and then magically we're able to get things done. And that's the part that bothers me. The no doesn't bother me. It's the I should not have to come to get things
moving. And when residents figure out that you're someone that can get things moving, then you're called all the time. So, I would hope that we would look at it, and I've said this a billion times, look at it like it's our money. Look like it like it's our staff. like it's
our building and to figure out how we can say yes the legal way without me having to come to the table. Other than that, I don't have a problem with the customer service, with how you're directing your leadership, Tony's, anybody else's. It's just let that yes
be yes or that no be no. That's it. Oh, and I've talked about this before. If we know that you need to get to A to Z, please let the applicant know that you need A, B, C, and D. Let's not wait till they get B and then come back and say,
"Oh yeah, you needed to do A.1 and A.2." That's frustrating. All of those things as well. Other than that, I don't have the issue. Getting back to what Commissioner Austin was talking about, would it make sense to, if you were to say contract some
help from outside to use that help to address the requests that come in that aren't clear, that aren't complete, you know, to take that menial work of the back and forth away from your experience inside
staff knows the city person to manage the ones that are ready to go. they've done all the right things and they want to move. Well, it also depends on whether or not they want to pay for it because it's not going to be a flat fee through us. They're going to have to pay an outside person
and you know, we don't we don't always get reception positive when um we say things cost more money. Yeah. So, I just But in terms of the um the process and the steps, if you recall just a few months ago, we did modify the
land development regulations articles and that has made a much clearer process. We've had um you know, the steps are a toz. And some of the push back we're getting is now it's actually in writing and they have to do it. They can't come in and go, "Well, it's not in your book. I don't have to do that."
It's stuff that we've always done. It's processes that we've always had as procedural, but because they were never adopted, someone come in and go, "Well, you you can't show me where it's in the book. I'm not doing it." So, that was the suggestion of Mr. Groot prior to him
leaving. We worked really hard to make sure that everything we actually always do made it into that legal form so that we have the ability to say, "This is the code. You have to abide by it." And so that's some of the push back we're
getting is that we actually brought the code to what we expect out of people and it's been an adjustment on some developers that they don't want to make because it's more work for them.
So well I am anxious to see more about the urban infill because we are getting to that point where right a lot of do more of that and we have some pretty cool projects. So um just you know if you've been in the city a
while just the last 20 25 years where we've had this urban infill opportunity everything from small lot builds to knock down and rebuilds to things that were brownfields or former autoplaces that are now different type uses. Yeah.
Um we've we've done restaurants and car washes into things. I mean it's it's it's interesting to see how some of them transformed various corners. So can you explore such an option and let
us know what it looks like? Yes. Okay. Any other questions, comments? This is having this is having developers pay for an outside plan review expedited.
Okay. Got it. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Ellie. And Tony, can we come to the airport? Yes. Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, we do have an item that's
not on the agenda. It is a budget amendment from the airport. It was passed out at the dis. I don't know if anybody from the airport wants to speak to it. [Music] Good evening everyone. You have before
you an amendment, a budget amendment and it is an amendment to the 2526 budget. Um it is unusual for us to do uh a request a budget amendment. Uh is that only 13 days? Yeah. Yeah. What are we 13 days into the new fiscal year? Um but this is related
to an issue that um we were working on when we were doing the budget, but the financial um implications of it were not clear. Um so I I'll give you kind of a rundown. It was it's a very complicated development project um that has a a lot of moving parts to
it. um and a lot of money associated with it. Um we have a building in our commerce park. It's we call it building 310. We also refer to it as a dormatory building. It is a building that is currently leased by Acron Aviation
Academy, formerly L3. Um and it was at one time used as a dormatory building. It was barracks back when we were a base and then it was used for office. I think the sheriff's office was in it for a little while. Um, and then it was turned back into dormatory a number of years ago, but it has been empty and not in
use as housing for the academy for a number of years because students have different expectations now for living quarters. Any college might know that. Um, so it's it's been sitting empty for a number of years. It's been a bit of an albatross
for uh for the flight academy. Um, and it has not been a productive part of our real estate program. So, we worked over the last year with the University of Central Florida um and one of their research um one of their research arms. They do energy research and they're interested
in moving into a part of that building. Um they're going to take up half of the first floor and and hopefully take up more of the building. It's a three-story building. Um so, um Acron wants out of the lease. We want to get somebody else in the building, but um there were
financial considerations. Uh we receive rent from Acron about $10,000 a month in rent and then there's about $8,000 a month in carrying costs. You have to keep the air conditioner running even though it's an empty building. You got um so so there are some costs that we
would loss of revenue and additional operating costs that we would take on because UCF was only taking a part of the building. Um and then there are some capital needs in the building. Um it has not been used for a number of years. It's an aging building. Um there were some issues with the chillers which
caused some water damage and some of the floors. So a lot of those capital needs are the responsibility of the flight academy as part of their lease. Um some of them are the responsibility of the airport authority. Um and things that we would have to fix in 35 months which is
when Acron's lease is up. So they have 35 months left on their lease with us right now. So, we worked out a separate item that's not part of your agenda, but I'm just kind of giving you the context of of why we're doing a million- dollar budget amendment right now. Um is we we worked out a termination agreement with
um with Acron wherein they would pay us 400 I think it's $472,000 towards the capital needs. That's their share. Some repairs are obligated to do and a proratic share of the new chiller. And then they would continue to pay the shortfall on rent and operating costs
because we will be getting revenue from UCF, not to a level right now that L3 is or I'm sorry, Acron is paying. Long habits are hard to break there. Um and and we also are receiving operating costs from um UCF as well, but again not
to the $8,000 a month level. So the the termination agreement with L3 is pay your capital um Acron, excuse me. um pay your capital obligations over this 35-month period. Airport's going to front the money, but they're going to pay us back and then also bridge the gap
between the revenue we're getting from UCF and the actual costs that we have, loss loss of rent and additional operating costs. So, we have we have this great situation where the airport is at least whole. Um, but if we're able to lease more of the building, we'll get more revenue. Um, and we'll be ahead of
the curve before 35 months down the road, which is which is when we would normally be able to access that building. So, right now, um, the Flight Academy pays $2.99 a square foot in that building. The market rate is $19 a square foot. So, the delta in what we
can collect today versus what we've been collecting historically on that building is significant. Um, it's we about $120,000 a year right now in revenue. it could be go as high as $600,000 if we can get the rest of the building leased. UCF has already expressed an interest in taking
the rest of the first floor. Um so that would already put us ahead of the curve. So that that's the context of the deal on the dorm building, but in order to get UCF in the dorm building, we need to do some improvements to it. Um UCF wants some tenant improvements, some new
office space, cost about $260,000. They're going to give us that money up front and we're going to escrow it. We're going to use that money to do the improvements up front. So, that's a it is an expense on our books, but we're immediately getting reimbursed for that. They also need a transformer because
they're doing energy research. They're going to have some ConX boxes in the parking lot to do some of their heavy research, not not doing that inside the building. That's about $150,000. They're going to pay that back over the first 60 months of their lease. Pay that back to us with interest, 6% interest. So
there's about um so that's in order to incentivize them to come in, we said we would pay that upfront, but you have to pay us back over the term. Um so that is an upfront cost for us, but we'll get repaid plus interest on that. And then as I mentioned, we've got $472,000
coming from the flight academy to underwrite the cost of these improvements. So you can see in in your document, you don't see the whole $472,000 because we're not doing them all of those improvements in this fiscal year. We'll do some next fiscal year. So there's about 347,000
I think off the top of my head that we will um attribute towards the 1.1 million 343 thou 473 47,000 will come from Acron um and then the 150 plus the 260 plus
the 24 I don't have that number in my head 400 and change coming from thank you coming from UCF and then so so the authorities's actual obligation out of that 1.1 million in is $370,000. $373,000.
So that's really even though it's a huge number, the real obligation for the authority and that's money that we either pay now or we pay in 35 months to get the building in shape to lease again. And as you can see in the report and I mentioned earlier, the current revenue on that building is 120,000 a
year. Once we get the building up and running and if we're able to lease it, we assume at about an 80% occupancy because part of that area will be common, it'll be about $600,000 a year in revenue. So, the ROI on it is really pretty amazing. Um, but it's a it's a
big number to see a $ 1.1 million budget amendment up front, but there's a lot going on behind the scenes that really minimize the actual impact. So, I just threw a lot out of you, but I'm happy to answer any questions and um and just our board approved this last week at their
board meeting last week. Any questions? Well, you just threw everything at us that's almost verbatim what's in these three pages. So, you have it pretty good to sort it out in your head. Um, are there other buildings that have the potential for lease? And I'm asking
because you're talking about the potential for leasing the rest of the space in this building. Is it competing with other buildings where maybe somebody decides they don't want this one? It's not. This is most of the most of the buildings are either are either tenant built built built built
structures or they're buildings that are that are remnants of the old base days. So, and and we are 100% occupied. We can we've always considered this building occupied because we're getting rent for it, but it it's an empty occupied building for an empty rented building.
Um, but one of our biggest challenges every day is that we don't have we have to turn people away almost daily um to that are looking for space either hanger space or industrial or office space. Uh I I wish that we had the funds. We could build some stuff on spec I think and get
it filled right away. We did just do a deal. I don't know if you're familiar with Hill Dermaceutical, but they're a pharmaceutical manufacturing company in in our Commerce Park. they um wanted a new building and they're building one directly right next door to where they are. Um that space should be available.
They have two buildings that they're moving consolidating into one and they're actually vacating their ground leases early. It's another situation where we're going to go from pennies a square foot to double digit dollars a square foot. It's really a great a great deal for us um to keep them in the park
for one thing because we love having them there. But um but it gives us an opportunity to leverage those structures much earlier than we normally would have. Um so we're we're trying to Greenfield development has been a big focus and it's the sexy stuff. The new buildings coming out of the ground, but
but as I said, leveraging our existing facilities is also a really important part of our real estate program. Okay. So there really is real potential to lease a lot of this building. This building in particular, yes, we've we've and we're we're talking got some other folks that we're talking to. So, I think we're going to have it leased up
pretty quick, but we need to get moving on these improvements so we can get people in it. Thank you, Nicole. Thank you. I think the other thing that you didn't really emphasize is this is getting UCF in the door. Yes, we are going to have a building Thank you, Mayor. We're going to have a building in the Commerce Park that is going to have a big UCF sign on it. So,
we're really jazzed about that. I think it I think it's going to start some real synergy for some other um exciting stuff. Maybe you should hold off on that until they finally change their name to the University of Orlando. So, we'll change it. We'll change it if we need to. But, um,
okay. So, just in lay man's terms, because you threw a lot at us. I just want to make sure I got this right. So, the amendment is for a little bit over a million dollars, but actually the the only real contribution will be about 300k, which will you'll see that return
on investment double that once it's all done yearly. Exactly. Okay. All right. Anything else? Does anybody feel the need to have the airport at the meeting tonight when we approve this? No. Oh, I think I think George can handle it
for you, right? On it. All right. Thank you very much. Nicole. [Music] Yeah. All right. Next, Mr. Mayor, is the third quarter report with Miss Lindsay.
Good afternoon, Mayor Commissioners. This is your um third quarter report for the 9 months ending June 30th of 2025. And I'll start on page three of the packet. This is our general fund.
Um currently um it's 12 million in the in the positive. I do not believe it will end that way for the end of the year. I know it won't, but that's where it is as June 30th. [Music]
Next page, page four is um the current um status of the fund balance reserves. Um currently you're two and a half% a little over um the u current budget uh um policy of 14%. Of course, I do
recommend a 25% reserve, which would be an additional $9.6 million. The next page that I will speak about is the um Mayfair golf course. It's on page 15.
Um currently, as you can see, this um fund is losing about 2 million. Operationally, it's 205,000 positive. Of course, this is all to do with the um new um clubhouse that's being built. And that money will transfer transfer over
from the general fund at year end to cover that loss plus the remainder probably by the end of the year. And then um the marina on the next page currently this um is losing 243,000.
Um operationally it's a gain of 20 almost 22,000. The rest is in repairs and maintenance um etc that the city is paying for out there. And then the last one I'll speak about
is pension funds. Um on page 18, um currently um the police is down 47% from last year. Fires down 49% from last year or 44. Can't raise my hand. Sorry
about that. Um but it's they are both down um from last year and it's all in um market adjustments um which is under the investment income portion of the report. And with that I'll open up to any questions on the
financials. Any questions? Just a couple um on the general fund. The interest earnings are looks like the variance there is a
72,000 negative. Am I reading that correctly from last year? Yeah. Okay. Compared to last year. But do we have any control over that? Can we do anything to improve that? We have an investment manager that that controls our investments for us and make
sure that we get the best results. Okay. So that number didn't surprise you? No. And is there a difference? Not with the current market. Is there a reason that on the special revenue fund
it's 1 million5 in the positive? This is just my own ignorance, but uh that's on page five. So, excuse my ignorance, but is there a reason there's such a difference between interest earnings in the general fund versus the special revenue fund
over interest earnings? Yeah. Um it's the the amount of money that goes in there um and being used. So, it's probably just sitting there more than the um general fund is. So, it's more stable.
So, that doesn't surprise you either. Okay. And then back in the bar graphs you have pages 19 etc. page 20 as an example special revenues
on the miscellaneous there. So we have a big amount budgeted and hardly any actuals. Is that normal for this time of year or through end of June for special revenue funds? Yeah. The miscellaneous revenue um is
quite normal. Um, they are for make sure I say accurately um the inter it's the grants grants that we got we haven't gotten in the grant revenue yet. Okay. And then similarly, I'm looking at just at a big picture-wise, there are a
lot of budget items here where we have got a large budget and hardly any amount spent. It's halfway through the year. I mean, if you were just going to guess, you might think it would be halfway through, we've spent half the money, but there are a lot of areas where they're not. Is that normal or
It is normal. And we are on a cash basis, too. So even though it's super nine months really in reality it's really it's only seven months because we do cash we don't So when we look at this say in the end of September and then toward the end of
the year we'll start to see those graphs matching. Yeah. Okay. Thanks Cindy. Any other questions? No sir. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else? Mr.
Yes. Under regular meetings, there is an item on consent K, item K, the Seino High School homecoming parade. You'll see that staff is recommending denial, but that is only because it came in late. Staff recognizes that's a city commission decision. Yes.
And I'm going to have another one, I think. Is that correct, Lisa? this agenda, but we will also be recommending denial. Okay. So, we wait until the agenda item comes. Pardon me. Wait until the agenda item comes, I believe. So, the Salvation Army wants
to do a bell ringing and they did not get their application in time. Okay. And talk to me about it. Okay. So, we'll wait until that's up. And we also believe that that uh function as they're describing it would be a freedom of speech, not a special event. It's just a very small time that they're coming out to announce
something. Okay. That's another reason. All right. Thank you. Okay. Um, what time is it? 5:51. I've got a couple of things. Um
first of all um with regards to the city manager's evaluation has he's sent his the goals report to us. We've already received that evaluations are due October 31st and we'll discuss it at the work session on November 10 is the dates that Sharon
sent out. 10. Yeah. Okay. Are we having a full evaluation Mr. Mayor? I just wanted just to like clarify because sometimes we'll start and we say, "Well, maybe we shouldn't be discussing this." And we go back and forth at that. Is this a full evaluation where we're going over things,
explaining what we said and so on and so forth? Is it I think every evaluation I've led has been a full evaluation. No, it hasn't. It's always been discussion about whether we should be discussing certain things or what not. I just want clarification. That's That's not correct. We discussed the whole thing. No, we do not. And I have no problem
with pulling it and because I've asked several questions. I've said, "Oh, let's go ahead and let's talk about it." I said I've said that. I said it at the last time. And since you don't remember, I have no problem with Well, last time I think you got a special work session to discuss yours because you were late.
That's neither here nor there. The point is is I'm asking for clarification. Are we going through the entire evaluation? Are we allowed to ask questions to to to go over what we had to say? That's all I'm asking. Yes, we will do it like we have done the last couple years.
We have not. Okay. Then we're doing it completely different this year and we'll do a full evaluation. Sounds good. Um the suggestion has been name made to rename the Sanford Information Center back to the welcome center.
How do you all feel about that? Yes. because people still call it the weapon center anyway, right? Is that an official action we have to take or can we just Does anybody remember? Um, I need to look into whether it was by ordinance or, you know, if anything
legislative was done. I can get back to you on that. Okay. I would just want to confirm that before you just Okay. I don't think it was. We spent some money to rearrange some things and said let's rename it, but I don't think Okay. Um, what uh I would say though I don't want
any money spent with the new signage or anything like that. Maybe we have the old sign we just put that. Okay, sounds good. Or maybe we can make it in house. Yeah, we do have a sign shelf. Yeah, there you go. And then um
we had um we had talked in the past and we keep bringing it up. Um the CRA is going away. Um you know, event funding is, you know, people are already coming to me asking for money.
Um, I think, you know, we're in that place where events are part of Sford. Um, I don't know if there's a way to just reduce city cost. Um, I I'm not really in favor of picking
and choosing which events we give money to. um without them being um you know things that we I'll leave it there because actually I want to bring up an event we're going to spend some I want to spend some money on
um but I don't know where do we want to go with that discussion is there can we look at ideas to reduce city cost and I think that may be raising the issue of are we reding
safety. Can we uh can we get uh a report on what events they have helped fund so we even have an idea of what we're talking about? No, that the CRA is funded. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That'd be a good starting point. And what dollar amounts have been spent on um but I think this is going to be something that just keeps coming up and coming up and I know MLK I know MLK is like $14,000
I think. Yeah. Um Okay. So, I know I met with um I spoke with Porchfest about theirs. I think um
talking to um Jennifer, we may be getting to a place for them that's affordable. But I think it's we're going to have to have the discussion one way or the other. Okay. All right. That's all for eight for now.
Commissioner Thomas, anything? I have nothing. question. I'll wait. Commissioner Wiggins, Commissioner Britain. Um, yes. So, tonight on the, uh, consent agenda, we're going to be talking about a couple of holiday things, and one of
them is the parade of lights. And I'm just just going to ask the commission if we could do something different that we've never done before. We are not the most popular people in Sanford right now. And I was wondering if the commission could have a float this year. Instead of riding like celebrities with
on the Corvettes and on the back of the things while everybody's waiting for the fun part of the parade, maybe we could do something different. I I'm not going to say it's not what I like, but I like being more in tuned with our residents and I just I just feel like it's just
I love that idea. Yeah. I want I want to do something different. Last year I got out of the car and walked. Yeah. Um the the mayor is against candy. Um Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let me finish. The mayor is against candy. The mayor spent $1,000 on candy.
I said let me finish. I said the mayor is against candy. when the city has to pay for it. So, if we could just figure out how we could give a little bit more on it. He does his own uh shirts and stuff for his people if he
will allow me to finish. Um, and I love that about the mayor and I would like to do something a little bit more as well so that we have candy and things. I don't understand why it can't be a part of the budget to budget for some candy
or maybe some t-shirts to be given out or or um the the the public works department had the cute little Sanford shades or whatever just so that we're just more Sanford friendly instead of just waving on a um on the back of a court
or little stuffed versions of a mascot on a key. What's the difference? with us on a float and in the car because it's just to to me it's it's you're more interacting with the people, right? I just or if we just walk like
they do in the MLK parade. How you how you been acting more on the float than in the car? It's just a different perception and as we see right now for everything that they weren't even convertibles so it was this time it's last year window. Yeah, it was your first one. It wasn't a
convertible. I'm just asking. I mean you don't have to do it. I'm just saying I if I when I'm at the parade, I don't even look at the us elected officials. I'm waiting to see my kid. So, you know, I was just thinking that maybe we did something a little bit
different. If nobody wants to do a float, then maybe we just walk and hand out things like the the mayor's um candy candy crew does. Maybe we just have all on all matching red shirts and we look in unison and not I don't I'm not knocking it. I can't
walk. I'm having enough knee surgery, so I got to ride. So, well, maybe we'll push you. We'll get you a scooter. We'll get them a a wagon. It doesn't have to be done. It was just an idea. Um, on that, uh, Eileen in her presentation said, and I'm
going to talk about this now so that it doesn't look like I'm trying to diss the city of Sanford on record at the regular meeting. Um, but Eileen said that we are a place to be. And yes, we are, but we have many hiccups and we could be so much better. I mean, we are the jewel of
the county. And there are great things happening in all four districts. I mean, this is the most that I've heard of people knowing who their elected officials are. Number one, because when they want to complain, they will call out their commissioner. So, we I just
think that the commission as a whole looks like we're out of touch, that we're re we're active, reactive, and not open for business. We know that that's not true, but again, perception is everything. And
I think that we need to I I I don't know, rebrand and remarket ourselves. and this can wait till after the election, but I just think that city government should not be disliked as much as it is. Um, and we have very serious issues and I don't like coming
to the commission meeting barking all the time. And I don't know if I'm speaking and clinging on, but I will say something and no disrespect to Commissioner um Austin, he will say the same thing. And it seems like it gets more attention, more there's more oomph. It's more profound when he says it. And
I'm barking the same things all the time. I'm tired of being grouped in with the city commission as we don't care. I'm no different from anyone else. I absolutely adore this place, but it does not look that way. And I've been warned
that calling out the city manager is uh a hostile work environment. But I don't care. I will continue to call it out until we get things better. And the perception that we have of being not open for business as the place that
smells as the we were going up this bell curve and now we're going down. It's absolutely ridiculous when we're on the waterfront and we have all of these amazing things in the city of Sanford and I just think that we are just being mediocre and subpar and we need to
change it. It's embarrassing. That's it for me. I'm sorry. Can I can I go back? Um I for those of you that maybe are
familiar the new scout uh transit system here in the county. I've been quiet about it. Um I I thought it was a really bad idea and I'm getting really bad reports on it. Uh it is not
good for our underserved communities and I've asked the city manager to discuss with links um what what the possibilities are for us still to maybe fund some service here
in Sanford. uh the 1792 uh the um the health department uh the state road 46 or other part of 1792 now I guess it is um moving people
from from uh grocery store uh hubs and the health department and and different parts of our city I think um can better be served still by links and their affordable rates versus what's
what's happening. Um, there are lengthy uh waits and delays, waiting for rides. Uh, this this uh zone pricing that they say they have is
not is not working. Uh, it it cost about $6.50 to go from Celry to the Sunreil station. And that's that's just not that's not feasible for our
even even middle class people. Uh it it it's going to be it's going to be a problem. So I would still like to see the links buses whether it's something we have to look at, whether it's something we have to figure out how to fund it. I don't really care. I I care
about taking care of our residents and our underserved communities more than more than uh making the county happy. Commissioner, I did follow up and had a conversation with links and they've indicated yes, they would be receptive to us having something separate. I'll be putting on a work session agenda for the
commission to discuss what does that look like and what areas you'd like us to explore. Okay. And we also, Mr. Lassard and I have a meeting with the county manager to talk about the scout in another week. Yeah. I'm sure they're going to anxiously await any kind of feedback on what's working and what isn't
because it's very early in the phase of scouts working or not working. But it's good to have that contingency that says it works for some. We know you've done everything to test it. We know you're adding vehicles and yet we're still not serving our community. So, let's keep links involved.
Yeah. Anything else? Okay, Commissioner Breton, I apologize at um jumping to conclusion about what you were saying about the candy. I've always um tried to spread my kids out along all the elected officials cars
and they sometimes have trouble keeping track of where they're supposed to be. You're not paying them? I don't pay them anything except they get a t-shirt and they think that's one of the coolest things in the world. Okay, with that, we're Sh. Part: 2
Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.
Heat. Heat. Oh yeah, we will. >> We will go ahead and call to order the media and Sanford City Commission for Monday, October 13, 2025. First order of business is the legislative prayer led by Pastor Blue of the Murphy Place Worship Center, followed by the pledge.
Please rise if you can. Good evening everybody. >> I have the honor privilege to be here tonight. I represent Birth and Place Worship Center and we're glad to be here for prayer. Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day and
for the privilege of gathering on the behalf of this great city. We pause to acknowledge that all authority comes from you. And as your word reminds us in Proverbs, where no counselor is, the people will fail, but in a multitude of
counselors, there is safety. Lord, we bless you for our mayor, commissioners, city manager, and every servant of this city. We pray now that you'll grant them wisdom that builds unity, clarity that brings understanding, and courage that
reflects integrity. Your word declares in Micah 6:8 that you require of us to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with you. So tonight, Father, we make every decision and discussion be guided by justice, shaped by mercy, and
carried out in humility. We lift up this city and all who dwell in it. protect our first responders, strengthen our educators, and bless every family, business, and community leaders who work for the good of Sanford. And Lord, we
thank you and we bless you for peace and your presence that will guide us in this meeting. And your peace rest upon this city. We ask this in Christ Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, pastor. Thank you, pastor. Okay,
we have a couple of proclamations. And the first one will be for Pints and Paws. So, if they could come on up, we'll bring your fat check. Whereas the Pines and Paws Craft Beer Festival was founded in 2011 in historic
downtown Sanford, bringing together craft beer enthusiasts, dog lovers, and the community for a greater cause. And whereas the festival has grown into one of Sanford's most anticipated annual events, attracting thousands of attendees each year and serving as a symbol of the city's strong sense of
community. And whereas since its beginning, Pines and Paws has raised more than $900,000 for local pet rescues and animal welfare organizations. That deserves a round of applause. >> With funds providing life-saving medical
care, adoption programs, and essential support for countless animals in need. And whereas the event is on pace to surpass the extraordinary milestone of $1 million raised for animal rescues in 2026, demonstrating the power of community when people come together for a common purpose. Whereas the success of
Pints and Paws is made possible through the leadership of the BART board along with the tireless efforts of dedicated volunteers, the generosity of sponsors and the unwavering support of the Sanford community and beyond. And whereas this festival embodies the values of compassion, generosity, and
civic pride, leaving a lasting impact on both people and pets while showcasing Sanford as a city that deeply cares for its community. Now therefore, I wed by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of city of Sanford do hereby proclaim March 28, 2026 as pints
and Paul's day in the city of Sanford and encourage all citizens to celebrate the achievements of this beloved event and the remarkable community of support that has made it possible. Thank you very much. >> Yes. Okay, I'll do that. So, we raised $106,000 this year and 106800. Don't
forget that 800. And the date that we picked for the proclamation is the date of next year's event, too. So, I thought it was fitting. So, thanks for thanks for coming out. We will be there. >> Next is Florida City Government Week. We
would like for city employees to come forward. >> Are we all city employees? I think that was the instruction I was given. >> Okay. Huh? >> Attorney, she'll sue us.
This way. >> This way. citizens and the one with the most direct daily impact upon its residents. And whereas municipal government provides services and programs that enhance the quality of life for residents, making their city their home.
And whereas the city government is administered for and by its citizens and is dependent upon public commitment to an understanding of its many responsibilities. And whereas city government officials and employees share the responsibility to pass along the understanding of
public services and their benefits. Whereas Florida City Government Week offers an important opportunity for elected officials and city staff to spread the word to all citizens of Florida that they can shape and influence this branch of government. And whereas Florida League of Cities and its
member cities have joined together to teach citizens about municipal government through a variety of activities. And whereas the city of Sanford encourages all citizens, city government officials, and employees to recognize and celebrate Florida City Government Week. And whereas the city of Sanford encourages educational
partnerships between city government and schools as well as civic groups and other organizations. And whereas the city of Sanford supports and encourages all Florida city governments to actively promote and sponsor Florida City Government Week. Now therefore, I wedger, by the virtue of the authority vested in me, as the mayor of the city
of Sanford, do hereby recognize Florida City Government Week, October 20 to 26, 2025, and encourage all citizens to support the celebration as Florida City Government Week. 10 seconds. >> Jeez.
>> Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, on behalf of the staff, we just want to say >> thank you. >> You didn't get it. >> Did he say he wasn't in the picture? wasn't. >> I That brings us
to minutes. Uh >> minutes of the August 11, 2025 regular meeting and the September 22, 2025 work session and regular meeting. >> Move to approve. Second motion to second. Any further discussion? Uh, minor correction, Tracy
Nathan S KO PM, >> you did you get that already? >> Yes, you in your email. >> Okay, good. >> Thank you. >> So, all in favor? I. Any opposed? >> That's unanly. Um, speaking before the comm city commission to facilitate
public input, if you plan to speak on an item, please complete one of the yellow citizens input forms and submit it to the um desk at the back. it will be brought up to us. The public will be given an opportunity to speak on any item before the city commission during regular meeting before the consent
agenda. I will ask if anyone wants to speak on those items during public hearings. There's a a time for people to speak for each item. And during regular items, if comments are not called for, if you would raise your hand to be recognized, there's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item.
Citizen participation, which takes place after public hearings, um is when individuals may address the commission on any topic that is not on the agenda, and there's a five-minute time limit for citizen comments. So, does anyone wish to speak on any of the items on the consent agenda?
Seeing no one, I would like to pull K so we can make a positive decision on that one. >> Any others? I >> I so A through H J L through V.
>> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion second. All in favor? >> Any opposed? That's unanly. K. Um is the seminal high school homecoming parade which is planned for this Thursday. they did not get their application in um
according to the deadline which means our staff is um obligated to recommend an aisle. Um I would suggest we move to approve that application. >> Move to approve second.
>> Any further discussion? No. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Nly I. >> Okay. On I chief This is approving the police department's vehicle procurement and lease plan.
And I didn't quite go through every single page, but I did go through enough of them to >> That's a lot of pages. >> That's a lot of pages. >> A lot of pages. >> Yes. Trees, wherever you are out there, be glad I'm not printing everything. >> There are a number of different kinds of vehicles here.
>> Correct. And I'm sure that there is a process you use to figure out which vehicles to lease and for what reason. Does any of that have to do with the fact that these are un undercover? Some of them are majority of them are.
One of the things that we've been doing is working with finance to look at the feasibility and the cost factor of of these vehicles. Purchasing the vehicles for undercover purposes are more expensive than doing the leasing. We've been doing a leasing program for 8 10
years and we also do this with fleet. So Bert Brat, I always get his name messed up. The the the guy that's in charge of fleet, uh we always work with him to make sure that whatever we're looking at is something that's going to be uh easy for them to work on as well. And uh
we've just been doing it this way for a number of years. Actually, it's more of a cost-saving than trying to purchase eight to 10 cars, additional cars. >> Okay. So, the ley makes sense. But you you revisit it every year and just make sure that you're getting the right kind of makes and models to get what you
need. Not necessarily any more than that. >> Yes, ma'am. >> That it is cost effective. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Thank you, Chief. >> Good. >> Any other questions on I? >> Nope. >> Then do we have a motion on I >> move to approve? Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Pass nicely. That brings
the second reading of ordinance 4832, >> an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, relating to the keeping of chickens and amending chapter 14, article 1, subsection 14-4 of the code of ordinances of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for legislative
findings and intent, providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions, providing for conflicts, providing for separability, providing for a savings provision, providing for codification and scriers error, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city
commission, city staff is requesting commission approval to adopt ordinance number 4832 to modify chapter 14 of the Sanford, Florida code of ordinances to allow chickens in residential areas designated for single family use. Okay. And the one
change that was made was there's only you only pay the f fee the first year and then any inspections after the first year are based on code enforcement. Am I interpreting that right? >> Good evening, mayor, members of the commission. Three changes uh from the
first reading. Uh the grammatical errors in the numbering that was corrected. um the fact that we changed the from an annual fee to a onetime $50 application and then we word Smith the uh the concerns that was identified by Commissioner Thomas and that's it for
you. >> Yeah, that's a good change. >> Okay. Right. This is the public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Bring the commission for action. Thank you, Tony. >> Approve. >> Second. >> Motion second. Any further discussion?
All in favor? Any opposed? >> Passion. >> First reading, ordinance 4833. >> Thank you, Mr. Roando. >> For the years on that project, >> an ordinance of the city of Sanford,
Florida, amending the city of Sanford comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment of the future land use map of the future land use element of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan relative to certain real property. Approximately 1.19 acres
in size. Owned by the Society of St. Pius X Orlando, Florida, Inc. Tax partial identification number 221930-5A-000000-130. said property being addressed as 9520 Narcissus Avenue providing for the future land use designation to be
amended from lowdensity residential semino county to waterfront downtown district city providing for legislative findings and intent providing for assignment of the land use designation for the property providing for severability providing for ratification of prior acts of the city providing for
conflicts providing for codification and directions to the city codifier and providing for an effective Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, ordinance number 4833 is regarding the annexation and the staff has found the request for annexation to meet the criteria set
forth in section 171 of the Florida statutes relating to voluntary annexation and therefore is the city staff's recommendation. City commission approve ordinance number 4833 on first reading to annex 1.19 acres located at 2520 Narissus Avenue into the city as
legally described. This is the public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item? No. And I'll close public hearing commission for action. Move >> to approve. >> Second. Motion and second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor?
>> Any opposed? Unanley. First reading of ordinance 4834. to 35. Mr. Mayor, we identified that there is a typo. The ordinance that says 4833 is should be 4834
and that was just read by the city attorney. >> So the annexation was 34. >> No, that was 33. >> Okay. Right. This one is 33. >> So, we're good with 33, >> right? >> Right. 34. >> 34. And that I don't see an ordinance in
the book for 34. >> It's the future land use. You said the city clerk just >> It says 33 on it. >> The one that the city clerk just >> Yes, I I did hand them out. >> Okay. >> It just had the number wrong.
>> So, the one that I read is 33. And that was just approved. >> Yes. So, you're on 34. Okay. >> So, the one you just read is 34. >> Noation is 33. >> That was 33. >> Yeah, but she read the 33. 34.
>> The land comprehensive plan. >> Should we just do it again? >> Let's just figure it out quickly. And uh let me make sure. >> The one that you just acted on was the annexation. >> Right. >> Right. >> Thank you.
Ordinance number 2025-4834, an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, amending the city of Sanford compre comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment a future land use map of the future land use element of the city of Sanford
comprehensive plan relative to certain real property approximately 1.19 acres in size owned by the Society of St. Pas Orlando, Florida, Inc. Tax partial identification number 221935
A000000130 said property being addressed as 2520 Narcissus Avenue providing for the future land use designation to be amended from low density residential semino county to waterfront downtown
business district city providing for legislative findings and intent providing for assignment of the land use designation for the property providing for severability providing and for ratification of prior acts of the city, providing for conflicts, providing for codification and directions to the code
codifier, and providing for an effective date. I have officially read the proper ordinance number 2025-4834. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on September the 4th of 2025, the city's planning and zoning commission voted to recommend that the city commission approved the request to amend the future
land use from agriculture for seminal county to agriculture for the city of Sanford on the project address of 2520 Narissus Avenue. staff feels that the small-scale land use amendment is appropriate and suitable for the subject site and is comparable with the surrounding land uses and is consistent
with the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan joint planning agreement and chapter 163 of the Florida statutes. Okay, this is a public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item? Seeing no one public hearing bring commission for action to approve.
>> Second discussion. >> All in favor? I >> I any opposed? That's unanimously. Okay. Ordinance 4835. >> An ordinance to the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the reszoning of
certain real property approximately 1.19 acres in size, owned by the Society of St. Pas X, Orlando, Florida, Incorporated. Tax parcel identification number 2219305 AD 000000130 by the Seino County Property Appraiser.
Which property is located within the Sanford city limits addressed as 95 excuse me 2520 Narcissus Avenue. Map of the property is attached from agricultural A1 semino county to agricultural AG city providing for
findings and intent providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions providing for the adoption of a map by reference providing for conflicts. providing for severability, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission,
on September the 4th of 2025, the city's planning and zoning commission voted to recommend that the city commission adopt ordinance reszoning 1.19 acres located at the address of project 2520 Nosis Avenue from agriculture to agriculture
on the basis of consistency with the joint planning agreement and the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan. Okay, this is a quazite judicial item and commissioners must disclose all exparte communications including the name of the communicator and the time and place and substance of the
communication. Written communications, commissioner's investigation, site visits and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made a part of the record. Persons who have opinions contrary to those expressed in an exparte communication may refute or respond to the communication at the hearing when they make their
presentation. Does anybody have anything to declare? >> I have none. >> None. >> None. Okay. Um, in a quaaz judicial process, parties to the proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have a legal standing to appeal the decision can also request to be recognized as a party. Parties are subject to cross-examination, must give
their testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party to the proceedings to be recognized and provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not subject to cross-examination and are not sworn in as evidentary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide facts relevant to the application will be considered in
the decision. Qualifications to city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided to the city commission must be competent material and substantial under Florida law. A guide to quazi judicial proceedings has been published on the city's website and copies are available on the table in the chambers at which
the agendas and speaker request forms are found. Now with all that said, is anyone going to be testifying that we need to swear in the city is not Yes. It's just this matter. Okay.
What >> I don't have the next one as quai judicial >> is the PD resound quite judicial. >> Okay. Then this is also this is for this item and for the next item ordinance 4836
commissioner with Okay. All right. Um, state your names for the record. >> Henson. >> Okay. And do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give in the matters now at hearing will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, I hope you got >> Okay. All right. So, we are still on item B3, ordinance 4835. This is a public hearing. Anyone who wish to speak to that item which is the
reszoned um or narcissist seeing no one I'll close the public hearing commission for action move to approve >> second motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
>> I. Any opposed? >> Unanimously. That brings us to ordinance 4836. I did hand out a revised memo for this one. They had provided me with late Thursday afternoon. So, you should
all have a 7C which says revised on the top. Okay. Okay. Does everyone have it the Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for amending of the
planned development of real property totaling 4.22 acres in size, lots 1, 2, and three. Tax identification partial number 16-9-30-5 AC 0000930 also 16-9305
AC 000000-93A and tax identification partial number 161935 AC 00000093B which is generally addressed as 133 North White Cedar Road, also known as Thornbrook, within the city limits map
of the property attached to increase the intensity and modify the standards for the commercial land uses along State Road 46 allowing GC2 zoning and add in the ability to request all associated conditional uses, providing for the
taking of implementing administrative actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference, repealing all conflicting ordinances providing for separability, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date
>> to submit. >> Oh, sorry. >> No, I jumped ahead. >> Mr. Mayor, members of commission, it is the recommendation for this to be denied and you have the documentation in the report. >> Okay. And in terms of exparte communication, I believe I have met with
the applicant on this project or a similar project sometime in the past, but I do not remember when it was >> as well as myself. >> It would have been a year ago or more. Okay. All right. Good evening. Eileen Henson, planning
director. Um before you tonight we have a request to amend the Cedar Point PD commonly known as Thornbrook. The plan development amendment is in two parts. So first some basic information. It's a
6.67 acre site. Three of the parcels front State Road 46, one on White Cedar. Their zone plan development and they're in the Westside Industry and Commerce Lane use classification. This map helps better explain how it's
in pieces. This is a mixeduse development that has um town homes, single family, and different commercial tracks within some of the commercial tracks front 46 and some of them front white cedar. So,
a little background, ordinance 4300 was adopted in 2013, August 26th. It established the towns at White Cedar PD. The original PD master plan proposed general commercial and industrial uses for all the commercial tracks. The city
commission modified those uses at the hearing during the public hearing process. It limited the uses along white cedar to restricted commercial to buffer adjacent residential. It prohibited conditional uses to prevent in incompatible uses near single family
homes and along State Road 46. So the development order 1315 had two conditions in it that are what the applicant is requesting this evening. The uses allowed on the commercial parcels 1 through three were limited to
general commercial and they were not permitted to request conditional uses. They were only allowed those that were permitted by right. The uses along white cedar were restricted to restricted commercial uses.
So this is a PD master plan. What the overall PD master plan, it's the full mixeduse project. It's a little hard to see because it's the white line. So the applicant provided this exhibit. The yellow parcels are the ones in question.
North is not facing up. So um the ones on White Cedar are the ones further to the right. The three on the left side of the screen are the ones on First Street. So I will zoom in a little to make it easier to see. And now they're oriented north up. You can see
there's three parcels. They front 46. These are the ones that restrict they were restricted to general commercial zoning classification uses only. And then you can also see from this plan that it was created in a way that was immediately adjacent to those town homes
right behind it. The city commission, this is the one at the meeting. The city commission took out the uses for industrial and conditional uses that would include automotive and storage and uses of that intensity. So some of the uses that would be added
um fourtory self storage, car wash, vehicle repair, light warehouse and light manufacturing, light manufacturing. They're seeking to allow all uses permitted GC2 and the ability to request conditional uses for more intensive activities.
So the Cedar Point PD on 46 the city the planning and zoning commission recommended um that the plan development reszone be approved. The details in the amendment they were they look to approve the increase of the
commercial allocation to the 4.22 22 acre portion that fronts 46 allowing the GC2 uses and the associated ability to request conditional uses, but we added in the requirement for the city commission approval like we would for
exceptional uses. So, the vote was 5 to2 in favor based on consistency with the city's comprehensive plan and subject to a development order including all of staff recommended conditions. The two dissenting votes were Commissioner Woodward, I'm sorry,
Woodard and Commissioner Wilson. Um, they were generally concerned about incompatibility with the adjacent single family uses. Miss Wilson also cited an existing agreement with Simol County for 46 corridor compatibility and opposed
the changes prior to the commission limitations. So the commission said that they wanted to take away those conditional use processes and she was opposed to modifying that original restriction. So, if the commission does move to approve the 46 parcels, staff provided a
series of additional conditions, which includes everything that was in the original development orders for development, but also all requests for future conditional uses to be approved by this commission in addition to the planning and zoning commission as we would require for certain exceptional
uses. And then strictly prohibited uses proposed to be um eliminated would be outdoor storage, outdoor animal boarding, auction sales, laundromats, marijuana dispensary and pharmacy, exceptional uses, and any other uses
restricted by the city code. So this is the piece on North White Cedar. The uses allowed on the commercial parcel 7 through 10 as they were originally noted. It says they were to be limited to the restricted
commercial and exclusion of conditional uses as noted in the land development regulations. On the left, you can see there's a photo that was provided by the applicant of the types of warehouses that they were looking to place in them. As you can see from the the exhibit on the right, these parcels immediately
butt up to the backyards of those single family homes. Mhm. >> Um, this is a little bit easier to see the subdivision that's behind it and the parcels that are in front of it. So, the warehouses, the they're calling them
condominium warehouses. We don't have a lane use code for condominium warehouses, but they are warehouses by code and they would be limited to the uses that are either part of this PD or warehouses on the whole, which is what the city commission did not want the
first time it came through because of its proximity to these single family homes. Um, so the action of the commission was to recommend denial of the proposed amendment. It applies to the two acres on white cedar. They sought to allow
ware they're seeking to allow warehouse uses. Um it was a unanimous denial due to incompatibility with the adjacent single family and it does not meet the planning management criteria in policy 1.12 I'm sorry 1.2 1.12.1
of the comprehensive plan. >> Thank you. Okay. To to clarify, >> y >> PNZ voted to approve parcels 1, 2, and three on State Road 46. They have voted to approve the
parcels on 46 to allow them general commercial uses with the ability to ask for conditional uses subject to those conditional uses coming back before the city commission to make sure that it meets compatibility with the joint
planning agreement elements to make sure that it meets what the city's commission wants to see in that corridor along 46 and to make sure that whatever buffers or separations are placed there do not negatively impact the single family town homes behind it.
>> So that was the action on the state reported six side >> and what's notated on the plan is proposed tire center, proposed car wash, proposed self storage. Are those all by right and general commercial? >> No, they're all conditional uses. >> Those are all conditional uses. Um, I
think some of them may be administrative conditional uses, but as administrative conditional uses, the LDR reserves the right to the administrative official to forward that as a standard conditional use if seen appropriate and
having those uses on State Road 46. um as gateway and then against the single family is what doesn't meet our comprehensive plan. The uses are permitted
within the mixed use of the westside industry and commerce. What it doesn't meet is what the intent and purpose of the original reasonzoning was. So that's why they're backed before the commission to ask for this modification. staffed after reviewing it still feels that the uses are too intense for the
residential immediately adjacent and may not be the most desirable uses on that immediate corridor into the city. Um, as it is a PD and it was developed as an overall master plan, modifying one section is something that needs to be looked at more than just determining
whether or not it's solely comprehensive plan. It has to do with compatibility. I mean it it is all the elements in the comprehensive plan but it's not just uses is what I mean. So the uses may be permitted but there are other elements of the comprehensive plan that are not being met.
>> Okay. And do you remember if there were any um concessions granted for the part that has been developed >> for the residential? >> I don't understand the question. What concessions the single family and the town homes? I mean it's all part of the
PD that's in the >> So PD is negotiation. So if they agreed to this, did they get something different in the residential already? >> I don't know all the residential concessions that were made, but I'm sure that we reduced setbacks and other
elements, but there were also those on multiple TDs in that Westside industry and commerce. did include the the statement that other industrial may develop around them, but because this was developed as part of their own PD, >> individuals bought into this mixeduse
knowing what they were buying into and what was immediately adjacent. So, you'll be changing what was there when they purchased their property. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for this? We already have an existing car wash and
one being built within a couple of miles of this area, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Anything else? >> No, I have nothing further. I do believe the applicant has a presentation also for you. I'm going have the applicant come up.
>> Okay. Good evening. Mary Solic, 121 South Orange Avenue, Sweet 1500 Orlando, Florida. I'm legal counsel for Elevation Cedar Point. I mean no disrespect by sitting there with my leg up. I had my knee replaced three weeks ago and this is the time of day it starts to swell. >> We understand. So um
>> he can relate. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um with me tonight is David Evans who is the project engineer. Oasis Kanani is the u principal of elevation point. He's here too. And Calvin Gardner is here. He is the proposed project developer for
the project that is on lots eight and ninth the front um white cedar road. So Mr. Evans is going to do the presentation and then I'm going to follow up at the end with some comments on um the ordinance and I'm going to pass out some information about the
ordinance that I will address when I come back up. So, I'm going to turn over to David. >> Thank you and good evening. David Evans, Evans Engineering 719 Irma Avenue, Orlando 32801 here. on behalf of the applicant. Uh we did put together a
relatively brief PowerPoint um just to kind of give you an idea of some of the things that were confusing even to us in the staff report is how the the lots were kind of uh combined. Um you know there's lots on 46 and there's lots on white cedar. So I wanted to make the distinction as to the request for each
individual piece. Um staff was gracious enough to allow us to apply for all of those changes under one application. uh may have been a little easier to do se separate applications so that it's clear but let me let me thumb through this real quick and then we can uh we can talk about it a little bit more. So this
is the obviously the the land area um you know kind of gave you an idea for us just surrounding developments to the north and uh to the south again the same graphic um that was put up previously showing um and it obviously rotated now. So north is to
the right. So on White Cedar, you've got the two lots eight and nine um in the back and you've got on on on 46 itself or First Street um lots one, two, and three. Future land use map. Everybody knows this Westside Industry and Commerce. Um
we obviously understand what the westside industry and commerce means and the the mixed use areas obviously you know con contains a policy within the future land use u comprehensive plan 1.1.7 um which I'm going to I I did pull up a
couple of those just a quick brief overview of how we are compatible with the the westside industry in commerce and so some of this will will lend itself into the future discussion of this uh presentation but um that we have you know obviously already developed the
property. The property was a master plan community. We have storm water. We have utilities. The developer actually helped the city um upgrade the lift station and water system in the area in order to provide services for this project. And it also uh did the same for the the
future uses which is what we're here for today, the commercial uses. Um and so and some of these are important to know. Um you'll see in the front three lots that there's actually a corridor in the back of the lots that's a connecting road. So we have cross access between the lots so that they don't have to go
back out on 46. So these things were part of what the Westside Industry and Commerce um alluded to and so we're we're consistent with that. There's two same thing master plan storm water flood plane we've handled that the master storm water. So a lot of this stuff got
taken care of when they did the master development. The master development obviously lends itself to the overall integrity of the entire project the uses based on where the the pro you know the approximation to the to the residential and how how we requesting we're two
separate pieces now zoning we understand all of it's a PD okay so in the PD we're not asking for any changes to the master plan good question on the previous applications um there were very few things that nothing that we came back to council for
relative to a PD amendment on the residential portion of the project that's already constructed. So we have single family and town homes. You saw those in the previous slides. Um and so in this case, no changes to the master plan stays the same. The lots are still there. Um and all the conditions
relative to that is the only thing we're asking for and we're not only asking for two conditions to be modified. You know lastly obviously back in the comp plan uh mixed use designation in road promote development of commerce industry and employment center
first request state road 46 parcels parcels 1 2 and three about 4.33 acres modify the condition that restricts the conditional uses a part of the GC2 zoning pretty clear um we want to request the ability to apply for conditional uses all the conditional
uses listed under the GC2 on the white cedar road parcels that's parcels 8 and about two acres modify the another condition which is in the same approval letter and same condition uh for the PD um to add specific again use of these condominium studios and we'll get into
that a little bit more market history developers here I was uh part of the development history so I understand and have been around here the whole time but uh they since 2013 that those lots have been vacant um he's had multiple national firms try to broker
them uh no meaningful interest based on the uses and then obviously from the state road 46 parcels uh it it uh prohibited typical highway commercial uses that that we that we've already discussed and I want to make it clear that we made we didn't make any application for any uses at this point
we've been talking to staff about things that could come along but there is no uses other than the lots in white cedar and the applicants here for that um there's no uses that have been submitted to the city they were just discussed So whether a car wash comes or not, we know there's plenty of them around, but I
guess there's a lot of dirty cars because there's a lot of them, but that may not be a use. We have not permitted or submitted anything to the to the city relative to that. So, um, what might be there is that that's just an example of that. And on the back, obviously, uh, lack of visibility. They couldn't get
any commercial users back there. A restricted commercial is very limited as we know, and we'll get into that a little bit more. Okay. Clearly one, two, and three, we know where they are. You can see that there is a access road here on the
back connects them. There's also a turn lane that got approved by DOT off of 46. So all the access can come in off 46 or you know from the neighborhood on White Cedar condition that on the uh lots two and
three. um all uses allowed under GC2 general commercial zoning classification exclusive of conditional uses. So that's the that was the condition that was actually approved by city commission uh back in 2013. Um we are not spec specifying any uses
yet. We're just asking for to be able to use the conditional uses and come back to now the planning board and the and the city commission for approval of those conditional uses. Um, and then obviously the conditional use is allowed within the con corresponding after approval planning zoning as a major
conditional use. So they added they added you guys to it because I think they wanted to make sure you saw it again if they came back with a conditional use. So we'll figure out how that works. Uh site specifics loss one, two, and three are directly on State Road 46.
There's an existing fence uh between the town home and proposed commercial uses. Um, if you looked at the the slides earlier, you'll see that there's a road right on the south side of the town homes. Then there's a fence and then there's our access road that I talked about earlier. So, you got about 100 to
150 ft from the town homes to the back of anything that could be built on those front three lots >> of space. And then we've got room for landscaping in between the the fence and the road that's proposed on that north side of those three lots.
Uh we're not asking for any in increased intensity or density. Um all the GC2 requirements will be met. Um and then under obviously under the wick under the comprehensive plan the uses that we talked about earlier auto auto service and repair an oil change place. We're
not talking about doing major mechanical work or any other other issues related to what would be permitted under GC2 as a conditional use. Obviously, planning board recommended approval of that. This is number two, parcels eight and nine. Yes, sir. Go ahead.
>> Quick question. Um, is it a fence or a wall that separates >> fence? Yep. Existing fence. And since we stopped there, I just wanted to be clear. You said that there is a a proposed road or there's already an existing
>> turnout on um White Cedar >> that exists today, a driveway >> um that is proposed to be used as the driveway access from White Cedar to to as cross access for those three lots. >> I don't know if it shows up there. Yeah,
there. Okay. See right here, that driveway's in. So that was part of our discussion with the city back when the master development was proposed. So the access would be through here connecting to these three lots. And that's that's what
it says in the wick anyway, but it's a cross access between all three lots. >> Okay. Is is the driveway in the buffer? Well, it's a it's a combination buffer and there's about 15 feet from the driveway to the property line and the
fence. >> And where the closest home? >> Oh, these here. So, if you have these these lots are the >> this is the front yard actual building. So if you take, you know, from this
fence across the road, their their their access road is right here and then you go their front yard and then this is the actual building back here. >> That's about 80 ft. >> That's pretty. >> So if you go the other way, you know, this road will be in here with the
buffer behind it and then the first buildings up in here. You know, you add the dimension to it. That make sense? Good. par. Okay. Request number two, specific to these two parcels, eight and nine. Um, obviously they've got a defined area
that they'll be in. Um, we know the city owns one of these parcels already. Proposed fire station in the future. Condition for that one. Uh, restricted commercial is the zoning type. So, under the land development code, um, schedule
B. And then the u the conditional use exclusive of conditional use is just like it was on the other one. So no no no no conditional uses under restricted commercial the proposal. And the so these are some of the permitted uses that they couldn't quite get to happen. Middle schools,
libraries, elementary schools, tough to put in those two lots. They're not really that big. Um daycare they tried. Um they've been again marketing these things. They're not really a motion picture place. Sidewalk cafe maybe restaurant maybe. But they wanted frontage. They wanted to visibility. So on that road, it was hard for them to
actually stimulate any uh users based on the fact that their location uh building setbacks under RC1, maintain those landscape buffers, maintain that building height, maintain that. And then uh proposed building height of the
studios is not even 20 feet, but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of a single family residential house. So, here we are. I'm going to ask Calvin Gardner to come up and kind of explain how these work because he's an expert in that flip through this.
>> Before he does, there was a term that was um stated condominium warehouse. What's the definition of that? >> Let him explain that because it's going to be you'll understand that. >> All right. My name is Calvin Gardner. Happy to be here tonight. I'm here with my partner Ron Southern that uh are
looking to develop this property. So, this is a pretty new concept. You don't see them really in Central Florida, but you will be seeing them everywhere. They really are are pretty popular down south. And they are they are uh mostly
for toy storage, people with RVs, boats, RVs, man caves, and down south these things are going for 400 $500,000 a piece. um they're they probably fall under industrial, but it's I I don't
think any of the the zoning in Central Florida really accounts for what we're trying to do. Um the closest thing I can tell you that they're like is I don't know if you've seen the airport uh between Apopka and Mount Dora. Um they are freestanding buildings. It's almost like a subdivision of homes, but these
are warehouses. But they're much nicer looking. They're aesthetically pleasing. They're small in scale. Um, most people industrial are building 24 to 3500 square foot spaces out there. This doesn't exist. Our
product is being sold. Uh, this one here would be a shell. Uh, sold at $325,000. On the way over here, I pulled everything in Sanford that was for sale commercially for under 400. Two things, both land. I can tell you there are
small businesses out there that have nothing and no option to purchase or lease. Some of these probably will be purchased as investments and leased out. But the idea and the concept here is to basically have these freestanding buildings that are in ownership. They'll be condominium. Um, and they'll be small
in scale. They're 1500 square feet. They're 30 by 50. Very small. I know he said on that that uh that the height was 20, but these will only be 18 feet. Um, >> right. So, that's kind of a a small version of what what you're seeing. Now,
we don't have the final design because I know the city's going to be specific as to what they want, but we want them to be kind of sexy. We want them to be kind of nicel looking. They'll be landscaped nicely, which you don't see in the airport one, right? They don't put a lot of a lot of trees in the airport property, but these will be individually
owned. There will be a condominium association that will limit the uses. And so those uses will be, you know, no nauseous smells, no contamination, no loud noises, um, and no automotive. So you can't do
anything to make money in automotive. You can't do window screening or anything. Now, you can work on your own RV in your unit. You can work on your friend's RV in the unit. You cannot do it for money. We want a clean industrial or like a little warehouse park. It's
it's a studios uh very very much uh unique to the users there but the users will be subject to the condominium uh uh uh documents but on top of that layer it'll also be subject to the city. So
we're selling these as uh just blank units. So, vanilla boxes and anybody that that's buying those for a use that's more than that. So, we we expect 30% is we have one going in Leburg. We we anticipate 30% of people with toys uh
to be going in though. 30% for small businesses that have grown out of their homes. They just need a place for inventory or place to go. Um not much in the way of retail. You're basically going to get the space in front of your building. you're going to be uh kind of
expected to park your car in the building at night. You can park out front, but there's this is not a retail use. It's not We're not looking for a lot of traffic in this park. We want a nice clean park. Um but we also think we probably will get about 30% that'll be
small businesses. Uh let's say you have a air conditioning company. You come in the morning, you have your van in there, you get it ready for the day and leave and come back at the end of the afternoon. So I can tell you it doesn't exist for small businesses
uh especially for 1500 ft which is all that most people need. So, we were going to uh our proposal on this one is 20 buildings and at uh $325,000. You can see there that's a tax base of $6.5 million that doesn't exist on that
property today. >> Excuse me, sir. Who's going to control the traffic? You're saying what kind of traffic is going to be out there and what's not going to be allowed? Who's going to control that? >> The association. Have you been a part of an association? So, I'll give an example. I had a a unit that I was selling down at South Orlando. It was a
condominium association and they had uh I brought a guy in, great company. He was going to make the almonds and the the walnuts that they sell at the Magic Game, which I love. Uh we submitted him as a as a tenant, not a tenant, but he was a tenant buyer. He was going to be the owner and they got denied because
they had a nauseous smell. So, it can't be anything with with a smell that anybody might find nauseous. So, we actually had to tell him he he couldn't do it. And I can tell you that association, that's ownership. They're not going to let that park go to pot.
You know, that's I can tell you half the people in the subdivision next to this are going to want to own one of these. I' I've yet to talk to anybody that doesn't want one of these units. I could use like three of them. So, um they are pretty popular. The one that we're doing in Leburg is in downtown Leburg and the
calls we get on that is just crazy. And since we've started ours, there's been two more that are actually under construction. So, It's coming. You're going to see more and more of this. So, you know, the planning department probably should start considering, you know, how they address that from a zoning and planning
department. But I can tell you, they're going to be very popular and they're going to be affordable. We're trying to make this to be an affordable product for small businesses and and owners. would um this may be a question for Eileen. Would we control the initial um
HOA documents? So the the answer to that I think is you don't control the HOA but uh for anybody that wants to run a business, it would have to have a certificate of occupancy. They would have to go to the city and that is where the city has the power. So as long as it's just somebody storing
their RVs in there, not a problem. But if they go on to move that into a business, whether it's storage, and they're getting a certificate of occupancy, they can't have 15 employees. They're going to get shut down because they're going to say, "You don't have the parking." They're going to get shut down because you don't have the and and we are going to actually plum these and
they'll have 200 amp service. So, you can put a small business in it. But, it's going to be minor. We're not putting three-phase electrical in them. Um, it'll be small boutique type businesses that go in here. But to answer your question is the the uh
condominium will control the the decks will control the uses and they will vote on those in you know within the the uh condominium association but the city will have uh the ability to stop them on certificate of occupancy type uses.
>> Okay. But I thought in the past we have required certain things to be in HOA docks. Am I misremembering that? >> For we do record the original HOA doc. I know Mr. Groot used to review the HOA
ducks to ensure they were complete, but I don't know that we actually regulate what the HOA can and cannot do. >> Okay. >> But, you know, >> and it would only be the initial ones anyway, >> right? Anything after that, they could amend it on day two and we have no say. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. It's the ongoing operation that is completely under the jurisdiction of their condominium of their board that they appoint >> and those are the people that would come in and say, "Uh, no, we don't mind the fact that there's a car in here being worked on with amps that you can hear 30
miles away." >> We have no control over that. >> Absolutely. >> Once it's a warehouse, it will be allowed to be a warehouse. I mean, we don't have a land use category that separates those uses. >> Nor is there a special definition for
condo warehouse. So, a warehouse is a warehouse. And so, whether it would look as though what's portrayed in front of you, that is not under the control either. is what it's designated as. >> And we can set architectural regulations
and you can set you know what the facads of the structures will look like or mandates that they you know adhere to schedule G and all of those things. But if they say, for example, have their own personal vehicle stored inside, but they
work on their stereo system, you know, all day long or all weekend long and it's in this unit that's next to single family and it's just personal storage. There's nothing that we can do because there's no occupational
>> um >> there's no on certificates of occupancy. It'll just be a white box like they said and it would also be um you know there's no business accuracy, there's no occupation going on there. It's just personal use.
>> So that's where the concern on intensity comes in. >> Okay. And I mean this idea intrigues me. Um but the I think the one that disturbs me is the man cave idea >> where I come home after work >> and then go in there and that's when the
noise starts up. Not necessarily the businesses during the day that would be using them or people that might be using them at night. >> Right. And the concern is not the use itself. It's it's an intriguing use as you noted. It's the location and proximity to the residential uses that
doesn't meet all the criteria. You know, the strict scrutiny of all elements of the comprehensive plan, not just use. >> What have residency about? >> Was there a cap meeting? >> Yes, they had a CAP meeting.
We did have a CAT meeting. >> How many people were there? >> Five. Five. >> Five. And >> two married couples or one married couple? >> Two married couples. You know, the way you market this, it
sounds more like almost a luxury type of condominium warehouse. And I don't know that we have the demographics to support that. Anyway, >> I'll let Calvin address that. while he's coming up. Um >> I bet this sells in Miami.
>> Well, it's selling in Leburg, too. Um you have, yes, the condo docks will regulate the project, but you have the ability to regulate the project in your approval. You can prohibit uses. You can put in hours of operation. You have the
ability to address noise with your noise ordinance if just like you have on any property in the city. you have code enforcement that you can use. Um, anybody that's operating a business, these are just going to be empty shells that are provided. So, the interior
buildouts are going to need permits from the city and they'll need to have certificates of occupancy and business tax receipts for particular businesses. You'll have a lot more control and oversight than you think you will. It it can be done. You just need to think
outside the box. It's not a use that's that's that's anticipated or considered by your code, but it's a newly developing use. And actually, it's a use that can be buffered from the neighborhood. It's a very low traffic generator. Did you go
through that, David? >> Yeah, it's a very low traffic generator. It it would generate less traffic than any of the restricted commercial uses that would go on that property. We have the ability to put the buffer in. The height is not a problem.
Um, it's a it's it's a far less intense use than you think. >> Could you, whoever has the clicker, can you go back? There was a slide that two slides I think with a number of items where you put in red how you satisfied
the requirements and you went through those pretty quickly. So, I just want to capture them again. >> Sure. >> Before that, >> it's way it's way at the beginning, David. >> There. are there. Okay, just give me a minute so I can I think the second page I didn't get through. So, let me look at
those again if I might and how the process that you went through to determine no wildlife habitat plan pleasant including gopher tortoises for example things like that you did all that >> yes >> of course and then H is the one I was
looking at regulated through condominium and you're right I mean we do have code that we can enforce >> right >> we have code now in other places where we still have to end up po calling poor Chief Smith there and saying, you know, we keep telling them about that noise and they keep violating it. So, we'll
just add another place for him to go to. >> Well, I mean, you could have a neighbor in the neighborhood to the north of there >> working on their car in their garage, blasting their radio and having a part. It's the same. You you deal with it the same way. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Let me I think I got through all that. Just one quick finish up slide. I did we did have some comments on the during the planning commission hearing relative to some things that the HOA former HOA president mentioned and so we wanted to at least address those
so we you kind of understand that we we saw those um this is Andrew Mcomes but uh the co-op vision for the for the Cedar Point PD based on the wick two mix of commercial residential uses um again
lack lack of interest is the reason for us here. If somebody had come in and wanted some of those spaces, especially the ones on White Cedar, we wouldn't have had that even on 46 relative to the type of uses that they'd like to have there. A negative impact on home value economic impact statement was submitted to the city during this review process
to evaluate uh the impacts on the neighborhood based on property values. And and in fact, based on the fact that it's not a warehouse use, it's more of a condo use. Um the impact was minimal on the on those on those uh houses. Obviously a vacant lot is what they have
today. Um burden on on taxpayer infrastructure. Like I mentioned earlier, this PD was approved based on some improvements that were made for the city. The existing lift station was improved and others contributions by the developer. Um so there were there's no further burden based on what this use
proposes and and our original estimate of what what needed to happen there. Um alternates RC1 has not attracted users again over 10 years. Applicants motivation versus commercial needs. Um the motivation is to do something with the property that's been sitting vacant
for over 10 years. Um loss of residential privacy. We have screening proposed. Um we can discuss screening even further. We have a lot of room behind the the the condo units to do some additional buffering fencing that that would also help with the the
buffering so that it wouldn't act nothing would cast over. Um these are these are private owned condominiums. So how we do the lighting um when the the time you know time which people have to have their cars they encourage people that not to leave their cars in the parking lot either put them inside the
building or take them home. So, it's at the end of the day, it looks kind of like the the slide we showed you with just the condominium units there. Um, protected habitat was one of his concerns. This is a developed lot. These lots were cleared and and during the PD process, so they're ready. Um, and then
future changes, again, that the condominium association is a big deal. Um, they're going to want to keep the values of these these units at the highest possible value. They're not going to let it deteriorate. This is no different than a condo that you live in. Um there'll be regulations, rules,
meetings, associations, and economy documents that regulate the types of uses that are in there. Again, Cedar Point Studios is responsibly designed low impact project fills the clear market need while respecting community standards that he supports. Project can unlock meaningful
economic and community benefits. >> Okay. I you should see this handout. I don't presume to know how you're going to vote, but I did suggest some changes to the ordinance that is in your package that addresses the three lots on 46. And
my changes, I'll walk you through them. The first are to the whereas clauses. Um, as David has told you, we are not on the three lots on 46. We're not requesting approval for any specific uses. We don't have an enduser. We don't
have the properties under contract. We just want the ability to market the property with all permitted uses under GC2 and all conditional uses under GC2. We just want the flexibility to seek somebody that wants to use the property
for one of those uses. So I took out all the references in the first whereas clause to any specific uses because that's not what we're proposing on those. And again, this the ordinance in your package only deals with the lots on 46. And the second whereas clause, we are not increasing the intensity or
modifying the standards. The F stays the same. We've not asked for any increase in F and we're not modifying any standards in the PD in terms of setbacks, etc. Um, paragraph number one would limit the the the uh approval to three years.
There was no time limit on the approval when it was done in 2013. And again, we're not asking for specific uses. We don't see why we need to have an a limit on of three years on asking or or being have having the opportunity
to present a conditional use. So, there shouldn't be any time limitation. Um, number three, the the staff was asking for an increased 35- foot buffer, and I've added a little graphic in there, and David's walked you through this that
demonstrates that we we don't really have the ability to put the 35- ft buffer in there because we already have the roadway that's coming in as part of the master plan and a 15-ft landscape buffer that's already proposed. And we think that that between the roadway, the
15- ft landscape, the fence, and then the roadway on the other side in the town home project that it is it is um sufficiently buffered. >> Um number six, uh we we ask that the all requests for the future conditional uses be heard by the planning and zoning
commission for recommendation to and final action by the city commission. We didn't think we needed to refer to the exceptional use process. Um, number eight, um, there were specific conditional uses that were prohibited by the that that the staff
requested be prohibited. And again, we want the those are conditional uses under your code. They're allowed in GC2, and we want the ability to to present those if a if a user should come along and present those that it's under the it's in the code now.
Um number 10 was um decorative and functional fountains be installed in the wet retention ponds. The ponds have all been built. You know all of the uh infrastructure is already in. So that condition should be deleted. And then uh number 11 is sort of along the same
lines. We would just ask that this that we do a compreh comprehensive signage program for the commercial properties. The multif family and the other residential uses are already developed and their signage is already in place. So, those are the changes we would like to see to the or again I not presuming
what you're going to do, but the ordinance in your package um thought we thought needed some tweaking. >> Do you have this that can be pulled up this graphic? >> I don't. Oh, that graphic. Um well, that's the same thing that was
>> You have that graphic? >> I I don't. I'm sorry. I just have it in this soft copy. Can we just put it up on the >> Do you have an Elmo? >> Do you? >> Well, I can just ask you. >> Okay. >> I mean, since we all look at it, if you want to put If you have Elmo, you can put it up.
>> Okay. Well, you've got it shows a 15t buffer and then a 22ft road. And then what are the big white islands? >> Those would be David. land open landscape. >> So Eileen, would that count in buffer?
>> The buffer >> have a road in the middle of it? >> No. >> Okay. >> I mean, it is a PD. It's negotiated. Obviously, when we originally designed it or intended for that road to be there, that was
likely the intention there. I know it's noted in some of the the discussions we've had, but I want to make sure that it's understood what the actual buffers that were obviously concessions as part of the original reason. I just want to
make them clear before we make any further discussion on buffers. So there is a >> a commercial to residential buffer of 25 ft which is green only. That's the buffer. It's not roads, it's trees. It's
got a 50-ft building setback. But both of those are predicated on a type one solid wall which as they've noted multiple times that it's just a fence. So a type one masonry wall is required to have a 25 ft
buffer. and a 50- foot setback. If they have anything other than the type one mall, which is the hedges and other means of making that buffer, it requires a 50 foot buffer and a 75 ft setback between commercial and residential. Now, our classification on this would be
warehouse, which is actually industrial. >> We're these are 46. We're talking about the pieces on 46. Yeah, this is this is commercial and it's commercial to residential or industrial to residential regardless of which uses. So these are
the standards for buffers. >> Right. But but there's no specific proposed use on 46. You said warehouses and we're not there's no use there. >> Some of the uses that are permitted by conditional use would be warehouse warehouses of permitted use by conditional use. I'm just letting the
commission know what the actual setbacks and requirements are if it were a warehouse use that were to come back as a conditional use. I know they've got the driveway built in. I don't know if there's a way to modify how it comes into the subdivision of, you know, commercial lots. That's something that
would have to be designed at engineering. But the industrial separations are 50 and 75 buffer and setback with a wall or 75 and 100 with anything other than the wall. So I know there's no pro proposed uses. I'm not
saying there proposed uses. I just know that warehouses are one of the ones that could occur under GC2 with a conditional use. So that being said, this would be the normal requirement. The PD has these in place, but part of the reason that
the commission considered the usage reductions was just based on that buffer. >> Right. So, this this was agreed upon for permitted uses under GC2. Yes. >> And we're asking for the ability to do conditional uses. And if a conditional use came in, then you could address
additional buffering at that time. But this what's here is what's allowed today with all of the permitted uses under GC2. Conditional use by definition is something that you can condition the approval on. So you could address the buffer depending on the use that's being
proposed. >> So the existing PD >> allows a a 15T buffer >> on two and three. >> Um >> yeah, maybe you should turn it turn it
up. It's upside down. >> Right. But you just need to turn it the other way. Turn it up. >> It's upside down. >> Yeah. And you all have this in front of you, right? This the map on the back side. >> So,
>> okay. So, my question is under the current PD, if they did the the commercial that's allowed because they followed this plan. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, the commercialist allowed restaurant, retail, those types of those
types of commercial use. >> But if we were to if they were to come in with a conditional use, we could require a larger buffer. >> Yes. >> For the conditional use. But you've said you cannot have a you can't get to a 35
foot buffer. So, just for just to ed to clear up some things, too, because we talked about this back when Russ Gibson was around. Enjoyed him a lot. Um but the the wall fence issue on the back um is is is one issue, but again from a
buffer standpoint, the only thing you're buffering with the the plants that don't get six feet high is the commercial side because from a distance standpoint, we will always meet that based on the fact that the roads there. So was more than 35 ft.
Like I said earlier, it's like from the buildings, but from the property line, you're talking I mean, you see where the building is. It's at least 100 feet from that property line to the back of that building. So, you know, we can we can set it up so the buildings are far away, but we would we we're certainly available and and this is what we've
done in the past to put in trees and landscaping that actually does create a buffer between the residential behind it and the commercial in front. >> Okay, you just >> no one's going to see the bushes. So, the distance on a buffer is there. The plant material can also be there uh in
the 15 foot section but the distance is there buffer the buffer width. So um you're you're seeing the the plants and all the stuff that you put in based on that buffer width by the commercial only
because the walls on the property line and their their road you see where the road is is right up against that fence. Eileen, can you can can you come back break it break break it down to me about the wall now the the buffer where the wall is because now we started talking about uh landscaping stuff and it
through me. >> Okay. What you see here is approved >> if they were to go in with general commercial uses as it stands right now. No conditional uses, no automotive, no warehousing, nothing that falls into that conditional use requirement. Mhm. >> So if they were to come in with a
restaurant, a retail, an office, any of those permitted by right, general commercial uses, they could build it like this because this is what the master plan says. >> Mhm. >> Okay. This though, as part of the PD negotiations, is a concession from what our standard code is. Our standard code
for commercial to residential requires a 50-ft setback on building, which there's no argument right now. The design they have shown here has a 50ft setback, >> but the buffer is required at 25. It's only 15 before you hit the road. The
buffer doesn't include the road. There's a 15t buffer that was agreed upon in the original. >> Why doesn't the buffer include the road? I'm just asking. >> A buffer is green space. A buffer is trees, landscaping, that type of thing. >> Okay. >> It's separation and setback.
>> The road is part of that. It's it separates that building that's commercial from the fence from the residential, >> but it's not green space. It's not open. It's not trees, landscaping, hedging, and whatever else you know is deemed appropriate for a buffer.
>> Okay? >> So, it's just the setback they can meet. There's plenty of room. The road falls in the setback. The buffer is already reduced, but it's allowed as is, >> but it's allowed with a fence and it's only the general commercial uses. If
there were going to be anything more intense, that's what the applicant is noting that you could put a more restrictive proper separation at that time if that's the route the commission. >> So, hypothetically, if they are going with the warehouses, they would need to
put up a wall. Well, this is a separate this is the piece on 46. But if they were to build a warehouse >> or a car, you know, car wash or anything like that that requires conditional use >> at that time, the commission could place additional restrictions is what they're asking. >> Okay.
>> To just allow them the opportunity to do that. So, the staff recommendation that came before you included the ability for them, >> if you can, I just want to make sure that you're clarifying for the mayor and the commissioners lots 1, 2, and three,
which is on 46 separate from the other lots, I think 7, 8, or 89. >> Right. Right now, we're only talking about the ones on 46. The ones on White Cedar are separate. Those are the warehouses, the condo warehouses. This is a separate piece. Then this then it's really confusing
then because even when we go into our motion, they're talking about two separate things. Lots eight and nine and then lots one, two, and three. >> And that's what the planning and zoning commission ended up doing was two separate motions. what's in that in front of you
>> because they they recommended denial on the ones on White Cedar >> just due to the proximity the the fact that their warehouses the unknowns and being that adjacent to single camp the ones on 46 they recommended approval
subject to those conditional uses coming back before the city commission and then they did restrict out a few uses which they're asking to be stricken from that restriction >> but it's all on the in the same like parcel. It's never mind. It's it's it
don't make sense to me like like how we approving. I know cuz one is on 46 and then the >> we got three separate par 46. >> But I know but you're saying Well, where's the other? >> The other two face White Cedar. >> Huh? >> The other two face White Cedar. They
face a different road. >> Okay. But we >> And again, I'm still confused. We're going to make it so we don't have to switch back and forth from Elmo to PowerPoint. Elmo to PowerPoint. >> So, this is State Road 46 on the south side. >> Mhm. >> Right here are the three lots in
question that we're discussing right now. >> Immediately behind it are the town home portions. >> So, they're single family attached. And this is the 15t buffer separation between a fence that sits on the property line 15T and then the road.
>> Okay. So, where's last 89? up at the top. >> Okay. >> Here in front of the single family detach that is on white >> and across from the industrial across the street >> backed up to the residential, but it was
it was initially put there to separate them from the industrial. >> Okay. So, that's how it was confusing to me because we kept talking about a road that was separate and I'm looking at something totally different. We're looking at different parcels. >> Yep. >> Okay. Got it. Can I suggest we wrap up one, two, and
three before we move on to eight and nine? >> Yeah. >> And I'm okay with that. >> So, these comments were all directed towards the ordinance that was covering one, two, and three. >> I'm not sure I'm comfortable with
striking number eight. >> Me either. Uh, Commissioner Tom, I had a note on that one, too. Are you saying we cannot put decorative and functional fountains into the existing retention pond? >> That's not already there.
>> The ponds are built. That's a standard comment that is in like all the PDS. It's actually in the original development order. It's just and it's actually in our code now. Originally, we were doing it before it was codified. Now, it's codified. It's just a standard
condition. >> But ponds already have fountains, right? >> They should. Do they? >> All wet ponds should have fountains. >> Okay. Yeah. My question wasn't about the ponds, but whether or not the fountains were there. >> Why is laundromats lumped in with the
rest of the eight? >> I had a question about that. Um it's typically due to um loitering and those types of sort of a lot of people hang around it. They're inside outside. >> Uh okay. So coin laundry not
>> right. Laundromat not dry cleaner. Laundromat. It just has a tendency to have a lot of people gathered around and since it is next to a neighborhood that's residential. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we've had those restrictions in our code for a reason for a while. I
don't know why we'd want to leave that out. I understand the if we're saying any conditional uses have to come before us, fine. up. Well, and the laundromat is a conditional use. Oh, might come back to that. But I have
another question about lighting. We were talking a little bit about lighting. Um, will there be lighting because these are condominium warehouses? >> So, now we're talking about eight and nine. >> No, we want to stay on one, two, and three. >> Oh, sorry. >> Make make a note. >> Let me write that down so I don't forget
it. >> We need a little note wall. We stick it up there for talking later. >> And I don't Eileen, I don't recall the P&Z prohibiting these uses. I think that got put in the ordinance. I don't think they discussed that.
>> I don't think they discussed it. It was one of the original conditions. It just never got brought up. The It should be in the original staff report that went to them and they said all conditions recommended by staff. If it's not in there,
Are are car wash, vehicle repair, light warehouse, and light manufacturing are those GC2 uses or are those conditional use uses? Vehicular service is conditional. >> Yes, all the vehicular uses are
conditional except for a rental office and not 10 cards or less like this enterprise satellite type office. Um what were the outdoor storage is conditional use. Indoor storage is conditional use.
Warehouse is conditional use. all kinds of other restrictions. >> It's a um permitted with restrictions, >> right? It's got all kinds of other restrictions, separations and distances. All right. >> Any bail bond is permitted, but laundry
math is conditional. Go figure. >> All right. You all ready to close the public hearing? >> Oh, we got to check and see if the public wants to speak first. Do you all have anything else? >> I don't think so. in on one, two, and three because we're going to come back and talk about 89.
>> Okay. So, I'm going to sit. >> Yeah. Okay. So, anyone in the audience wish to speak on this item, specifically partials one, two, and three. Okay. So, you know, and I'll bring it back to the commission. Um,
if we were to approve this, I would want a wall and a 50ft buffer for any conditional uses. >> Hold on. conditional uses a 50 foot you would want a wall >> a wall and a 50ft buffer for conditional
uses >> but those would have to come back to a similar one >> right >> I'm just filling out when you come back >> here's what we're looking for to start with >> all right so you want >> that's that's the that's the standard for just commercial right
>> okay hold on I had them all pulled up and I had to change pages up >> that's what I wrote town. >> Um, do you want Well, are you putting these as conditions in this development order now or are you looking to just put
it on the record that conditional use that comes back later will get this condition? >> No, I'm want it as a condition. If they bring back a conditional use request, it will need to have a 50ft buffer and a wall. And are you counting the 50 foot
to include the road or not include the road? >> Not including the road. >> They would have to readjust how the driveway comes into the entry, but nothing's built at this time, >> right? >> So, >> which they could do to two of them. They just move it have the road bend over for
partials two and three. >> Better. They know that ahead of time. >> That's a really big buffer though. Like y'all got >> standard commercial. The buffer is 25. >> Oh, 25 >> with a 50 foot setback. >> 25 >> with the wall.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. So, does that need to go in the motion or is that just >> that's just his statement? That's just my thought. If um we want to approve this, that is a condition I would want added. >> Okay. But if it is made as a motion, I
would include it in the motion. Okay. So, I move to approve ordinance 20254836 on first reading amending the plan development zoning for only uh 4.22 22 acre portion of lots 1, two, and three
of Cedar Point PD aka Thornbrook to increase the int intensity and modify the standards for the commercial land uses along State Road 46 allowing GC2 zoning and to allow the ability to request associated conditional uses which are
a wall and a 25 foot buffer based on the consistency with the goals and objectives and policies of the city's comprehensive plan as outlined by staff and subject to a development order that includes all staff and commission rec re recommended conditions.
>> That's good. >> Yeah. >> Second. >> Yes. >> Did you consider any of the changes I proposed to the ordinance? >> Any of the red red? >> Yes. >> All right. The motion was
>> would include all of those. Um the first one I would say um we're not outwardly allowing those uses. We're allowing the opportunity to seek a future conditional use. So that strikeout is correct.
>> They've made it more restrictive on themselves. it that's what it appears to be is that they removed the request to include car wash vehicle repair or any of those things. It just >> put them through conditionally. >> Um the second whereas
do you have a problem striking that one? Well, first it's just a whereas it's not a condition, but the whereas is stating that they're seeking to increase the intensity. And I don't mean intensity by floor area ratio, intensity of use. >> Okay? >> So an automotive use is more intense
than a um let's say an office, a dentist's office or a restaurant. An automotive use is more intense. But I understand what they were getting at in terms of intensity, but that's not what the intensity meant. and then modifying the
standards. That's where the issue comes in. If we go with a higher, more intense use like something that gets a conditional use later, it does modify those standards because the requirements are different >> depending on what they're doing. >> So, we should leave >> already gotten modified standards in
this PD. So, >> so leave the statement in the whereas. >> Yeah, it's not it's just basically stating that what they're asking for includes these things and it is reduced standards. Even though it was originally in the original PD, it's still reduced
standards because you're not bringing them up to standard as part of this approval. >> Okay. And number one is a a standard condition of ours. >> That is in our um our code. >> Okay. that at in three years if the infrastructure isn't built but that doesn't really apply to this because
there's the infrastructure was built as part of the overall PD but it is a standard element of every PD unless you're counting the road they have to build but they don't have to build anything until they build one thing and then we'll require the
infrastructure >> okay >> but the water the sewer the roads the connections the storm all of that is generally in so it's the standard condition that's required, but it shouldn't impact them to expire in three years. It didn't expire now, and they haven't built in 10. >> Okay.
>> 15. >> All right. Three, we sort of took care of by requiring the larger buffer if it's a conditional use. >> Otherwise, our landscaping code would
dictate what they have to do, >> right? If they proceed to develop as it is now and they don't add any additional uses, they can develop as it is if you approve it. If you approve the motion you're considering, if what they showed you as a potential design would be
something they could build. The additional landscaping was out of concern for the separation and buffering of the residences behind them for any further future intense use. But you've already put on the record what you anticipate and expect if they should come back. Okay.
>> So I think that supersedes this. >> So we can leave three out. Um does it matter whether we say as required by the exceptional use process? It says it has to come back. Period. >> Well, they've made it so that it I'd
have to double check what we did on the exceptional use process because that was one of the codes that we most recently adopted. But the way it's worded is that it has to be approved by the planning and zoning commission and the city commission. The way they want it worded is like this, the PD reszone, where the planning and zoning commission makes a
recommendation and this board makes the final action. But that's totally up to the city commission to determine whether or not that's the direction you want to go. Do you want final action or do you want two approvals? Because if they get denied at the conditional use of the planning and zoning commission, it's
done. They don't even get to come back. Well, then it seems like it would be to their benefit not to change that one. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Because that way if PNC says no, >> it ends there. >> It ends there.
The way it's written right now. If PNC says no, it ends there. If PNC says no appeal under this, they can get a second chance to plead their case and maybe make modifications, work with staff, any of that >> to get a final action by city commission.
>> But our adopted process would have it end if it's denied at the PNZ level. Correct. >> The way this is written, it says the conditional use must be heard and approved by the planning and zoning commission and the city commission. So if the planning and zoning commission says deny, it doesn't go any further because it's not the end doesn't apply.
That's correct. gives you the final says >> on that one. >> Are we establishing any precedents here that might be of concern? >> Every PD is individual. It just really depends. And this is a unique >> Okay. >> It is a unique location because you're modifying something that was part of an
original PD. So, it's not like you're coming in with a new PD and you're making concessions along the way. This is a specific use and it really is dependent upon what the city commission wants to see. >> Okay. And we're leaving number eight in. >> I'd like to leave number eight in.
>> Yes. >> And number 10 is moved. >> Yes. No concern and 11 allows a comprehensive sign program without the residential. >> The residential is already built and signed.
>> Yeah. >> Right. Typically what we try and do is have the commercial match in style and shape and size to the residential as part of the whole PD. So that's why it's written like that. So when the commercial comes in, if there's stone bottoms on the Thornbrook signs, they
should match the signs that are in um that are in the commercial for their monument style or any entry signs, things like that, like we did at um Southgate. All those restaurants have the same type signage as the apartments behind it. But I mean it's that also is
just up to the the determination of the commission. If you want to see something different along State Road 46 and the commercial at White Cater, a conference of sign program for their commercial stuff would be >> I mean anybody going to realize that
those are part of Thornbrook >> unless we make them make the signs look the same. What do you all think about that one? Let them do their signs. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, if I was counting, we
accepted 11 10. I forgot what we did with six. >> I don't think you left. We are accepting that. >> So, we were not accepting six. >> No, >> I think you did. accepting their
changes. >> Yeah. The determination is do you want it to stop in CNZ or do you want to have an opportunity to review it? >> I mean, typically we allow people to do that, don't we, that PNZ denies? >> Well, if PNZ denies it, there's always
the appeal process, but that's a whole >> Yeah. >> different I mean, they have the opportunity to come to you. It's just more process to get you. >> I might go with number six. Are >> the rest of you okay with number six because it comes to us? Sure. >> Yeah. Okay. So, is anybody keeping track
because I forgotten already? >> Yep. You got it. >> So, we're 10 and 11. >> We are not accepting eight. We are accepting six. >> We can accept three because our additional condition covers that.
>> And we don't have any concerns about the types of >> that's in our landscape code. landscape code. Okay. >> Yeah. If and >> yeah, if they build it as is now, >> it is what it is. If they change anything and come before you with a
conditional use, you can do whatever you may want to modify from the code at that time. >> All right, >> we're good with that one. >> So, we'll accept number three. for now >> except the deletion of three because you because you've replaced that with the condition that so three can come out
>> right so okay if we start at the beginning the first whereas we're going to include in the ordinance >> the second whereas we're going to leave it alone just because it's for clarification of why we're here um
the number one we've decided it's a standard It can go or stay. It's up to you if you guys want to have it in the the ordinance because it's standard on every one of our PDs. If not, it is in the code either way. >> I'll keep it.
>> Okay. We'll keep number one. Number three, you've decided that we're going to leave that to whatever next public hearing occurs. >> Yes. >> So, that one's being deleted as they requested. >> No, I thought we were keeping three. We're keep because that's the buck.
That's the you said that's what the standard is anyway. The buffer thing. >> No, by in if they do a conditional use, we increase the buffer and require a wall. Otherwise, they do what code calls for them to do right now.
>> The only reason that would change is if they do a conditional use. >> All right. So, >> okay. >> Correct. >> Okay. And then um the blue I believe was just language for explanation.
>> Yes. Okay. And then number six, you're going to keep it as they've proposed, not the way it's in the ordinance, but keep it as they've proposed so that there's opportunity for them to see both the planning and zoning and this regardless of whether the planning and zoning approves or denies. It'll come as
a recommendation, not an action. >> Okay. >> Number eight, you wanted to keep. >> Yes. So they're you're striking their request to get rid of eight. We're keeping eight. >> Striking their strike through, >> right? Um 10. It's in code. It's
somewhat irrelevant. They should have ponds. They should have fountains in their wet ponds and it should have ongoing maintenance by the responsibility of the HOAs. And then last is the comprehensive sign program. I believe that you landed that you would let them do the commercial as their own
individual comprehensive sign programs that don't have to be incorporated into the overall form. Correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Commissioner Breton, do you accept all those in your motion? >> Yes, sir. I do. >> Commissioner, >> how's that for a good compromise? >> Who who was a second?
>> I Okay. Do you accept all those in your second? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Thank you for um catching that. >> Okay. >> Um any further discussion? >> All in favor? I >> any opposed question. Okay. On to 89.
Do I need more public hearing? >> Was there anybody in the audience that wish to speak specifically on 8 and 9? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And does the applicant have any more comments on 8 and 9? I don't think so. Is there anything we can clarify or help you out with?
>> Lighting. >> I'm sorry. >> The lighting. >> Oh, the lighting. That's right. >> So, >> what's your question? >> Uh, there will be security lighting presumably. Uh, will that be structured in such a way that it will not impact the
residents nearby? So I think the way code is probably right now it's probably more than you would want next to a residence. We would like low level we'll have security cameras so everybody will have their own security in their buildings but that would be something that zoning would dictate as to what we
have to do for lighting. My preference is the least amount of lighting. I I wouldn't want big lights throughout. But I can tell you when we met with them originally they were saying well you're going to have to put up like six street lights. I'm like, I don't think you're going to really want those lights there.
But again, that'll be dictated by zoning. Correct. >> There are some safety requirement minimums, but in general, it requires a zero light level at the property line. So, I mean, we have pretty low levels of lighting, especially adjacent to the
residential, and then obviously at the entry and where people are driving because you >> pull near her house. Yeah, that was a different topic. And then as far as security goes, if there were let's say five of six of the condominiums, the all
of their alarms went off at once, it wouldn't be any different than any other warehousing or alarms that >> and we could make those actually silent alarms in the declarations. And I don't mind even going to the city with our condominium docks so that they can I
mean, I'm not against them being able to approve things that get changed down the road. So, I mean, we want to make this win-win. We're looking for a nice, clean, quiet park. I think it'll be a it'll a great use next to that residential subdivision. I mean, right
now, they back up to industrial and not I mean, it's nice. It's tilt up con. You know, those are 30 foot buildings. They're looking at those things. They're not going to see ours. Ours are 18 feet and there will be a tree buffer. So, we have a 25 foot buffer that's already
built into that site on the backside. You don't see it there, but um we can't build in that to start with, but we can put trees in there. >> Yeah. >> And there's already a fence in it. And I I believe that subdivision actually sits higher than the property we're looking to develop. So, they're really not going
to see it. It's going to be a good neighbor. We have no I mean, there'll be a noise ordinance in our our declarations. I guarantee you that is not going to be the problem because they're going to police themselves. >> Well, I appreciate that. I'm just trying to put myself in the position of the residents that are sitting next to these
and what the impact will be for them. >> No, and I and I agree with that. I I understand the concern. I I do think ours is going to be a very low impact. I mean, less than a school. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if I put a school in there, it's going to be a lot louder than what we're going to put in. So,
>> um there's currently a 25 foot buffer on the plans. Is that what's being kept? Yes. >> I'm sorry. Subdivision. >> Yeah, >> that's actually an existing.
>> So, was staff recommending a 35 ft buffer there if it was approved? Um, I don't think they got around the conditions. I think they were just I'd have to go back and look at the
original And if we were to approve this, and I'm not saying we would, would we be able to turn the buildings so there's a solid wall of buildings against the subdivision rather than the two open spaces
um where the drive entrances are? >> Oh, let's pull up We would just have to have our civil guy take a look at that and see um you know the our biggest concern there was that you can always get a fire truck through. So that's that's that dictates a lot of
the um the way we design these so you can get a fire truck that can come all the way in and around. So, um, we would have to look at that. I mean, in the end, we have to decide whether or not it's financially feasible. So, if we get right now, we have 20 units in
there, it works. But, um, you know, if we can only get 16 units, maybe it doesn't work. So, that's something we would have to look at from the the civil versus the financially feasible um, whether or not we would move forward with that. So, what is I'm sorry. What's
your concern about the the opening? >> Can we put that picture up? >> It's Oh, >> I'm looking at >> um to answer your earlier question, it appears that the 35 foot buffer was intended for both white cedar and 46.
So, we've stricken it from the 46, but it's still >> Okay. So, you know, I'm looking at here where you drive in and there's open space right behind this. And so, noise from this one, this one would be heading in as opposed to if they were all
um the backs of the building, I think there would be less noise. >> So, I think what he's recommending is rotating those >> those last two. We would have to look and see how that works >> as far as circulation and whether or not that affects the number of units and
whether or not the number of units affects the feasibility. But again, that would actually we would take that into concern right now. Um, we'll take a look at that with our civil. There currently exists a fence that goes
that whole line along the housing. >> Anybody else comments on this one? >> The other thing I would want a wall too. >> I want a wall too, sir. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Proof. I agree with that >> because especially we're keeping a 25 ft
buffer because now we're warehouses and warehouses should be 50 ft. Right. >> Right. Right. We can't we can't we can't make it the the use that the warehouses are turned like you had recommended. Mayor, we we we
>> we can't make that a condition. >> Yeah, >> you can. And it's first reading. So you should be able to put the conditions in. They can always change by second, but the applicant still has to agree to the conditions before the second reading is adopted. >> And they could come back and say there's no way we can do that.
>> In which case >> reopens the public hearing discussion. >> Okay. What how do you want them turn? >> I want this just to be a row like these. I just want to row across there so that I don't have this open space right behind that
house and this open space right behind that house. >> I'm assuming because that reduces the the noise. >> Nothing that would reduce them >> and the wall would be on the back end of that. >> If we're going to only have a 25 foot buffer, then I think there needs to be a wall there.
>> And that drawing's a little off. And if there's a lot to the right or to the left, it doesn't exist. The allow a little >> we don't actually this property doesn't >> know that's right
>> but we Calvin has said he could look at the layout between first and second >> and I believe that 25 foot buffer that you see is that easement I I'm just guessing but I've always thought that that was actually had to do with the master drainage that's you got to understand that that's going to be a
fire station to the right of us. So that's going to be a more intense than anything that we're actually >> Yeah. I'm not sure that's going to be a fire station anytime soon. >> Highly fire station. Um >> that's what we wanted it to be. >> No, no. Well, I and I agree. So that's I what I'm saying is that's a fire
station. That's that's going to be >> more intense than anything that we're actually doing. But I think that uh that buffer actually has to do with the drainage that gets to the drainage on the other side. That's where the master retention is. So, it's a it's a buffer that can't be built.
>> Well, there's always a little person sitting on one of my shoulders that says the other option is always to not build. Just because we have empty space, it doesn't mean we have to fill it. >> Well, that's easy. when you're sitting
on the when you're sitting on the property, you know, you're not >> Oh, except we've already zoned it to be developed and it is appropriate. >> Never mind. >> Senator goes to Eileen's presentation. >> That a little ghost on my shoulder there.
>> You know, what do what do we >> I agree with her. Do something with it. >> Is this the right way to go? years ago, we had a um a planning director who thought that if you were not pouring concrete, you were not doing your job. And it doesn't matter what you were pouring as long as
you were pouring concrete. >> We like our planning director. >> All right. Well, I told you folks this was going to require you to think outside the box. This is a this this
is a very low intensity, low profile, low impact use to transition you from residential to the industrial on the other side. Good boy.
>> But it's in the details of what's actually in those warehouses. >> Exactly. And what does HOA approve and not approve? Like I said, I'm intrigued by the concept. >> Yes, >> I can't afford one.
>> You could if you lived in it. >> No, that won't be allowed. That will not be allowed. >> All right. >> Okay. What do you want to do? >> Just to clarify, did I hear that you were open to allowing the city to approve the HOA documents?
I heard it >> up at the mic, please. I'm trying to get >> Well, there's presenting it to and then there's allowing us to approve it. >> There there are other I just want to be clear. I I was not asking about presentation. I was asking about whether I had heard an agreement to allow the
city input and approval as to the HOA documents. Some of what we're hearing is intrigue, but where? >> Right. >> And some of the issues with the location. So, the documents that we've
been working with, we don't have a finished um document for this one here especially, but um they're pretty standard throughout a lot of my my background is real estate and so I've seen a lot of condo docs for commercial pieces, whether they're office or industrial. They're pretty standard and
we would be happy to present those and get that approval. I don't see a problem with it. They're pretty standardized. >> I want to clarify, I was not asking for a presentation. Presentation does not give the city input. It does not give the city authority. I'm asking, is there
an agreement to allow the city to approve and have input as to what is contained in those HOA documents? I I would I can't this is not my client. This is the project developer. But I would say I told you earlier we've made
representations about uses and restrictions and hours of operation and um other operational controls that we intend to put in the condo documents. And I've invited you to mirror those conditions and limitations
on uses and hours of control in your documents in your approval to the extent you want to review the HOA documents to make sure we're mirroring what you've approved. Yes. Yes. I I go to a lot I'm a land use lawyer. I go to a lot of
hearings and I I hear a lot of people come up to a podium and say you can't approve that because our condo docks don't allow it but your code does and you have to tell those folks that's a private civil matter and it complicates things for the residents because they think they have an entitlement under the
condo docks but you don't have to honor that. Let's avoid that in this and make sure that we're in agreement on use restrictions. You mean actually get on the same page? >> Yes.
>> Where would that go? We approve this. When would be our opportunity to put um other restrictions on? >> So, are you putting it in the hands of staff and the attorney or are you putting it in the hands of the city
commission because you would have to put an additional condition to say that the condominium docks would have to come back to commission for review. a trust. >> Yeah. Or the final like can the final do
or the final approval include conditions in the HOA docs that we do not know now? >> The final approval of the development plan >> of what any whatever the final approval would be before they start construction.
>> Okay. So they would have opportunity to add code requirements >> right after I mean you can put trying to think how and maybe can assist but you can put something in that says prior to issuance of a site development
permit the city shall have the authority to review and approve the HOA docs to assure alignment with the plant development documents or something along those lines >> and and just understanding and that's why I was very clear the difference between presentation and approval
it would still not give us the authority without their their consent to dictate what is in those documents. And so that's >> right >> after 2 minutes the the answer is no. They're not in agreement to have us make
that determination. Um so we would just have language that says we agree or the the condition that we approve or review them um as part of the approval process. >> Can I say something? the um I think what you're going to find is that you know
you go to zoning zoning looks at the building height they look at the size they look at the setbacks and all that they look at the deck the the condominium docks the declaration so if they read those and think that that is not in line with what is being approved
physically I would think they have the right to say no we're not going to we're not going to support this I'm assuming that they're going to support it based on not only the physical but these declarations as well and >> but there's not an opportunity for that to take place. >> I would think that's
>> well it's not part of our standard development review process but you can make it a >> condition of the development review process. So it's one more thing >> the HOA docs for the construction to go forward. >> Right. So as part of the development plan approval process staff has to agree
that the HOA docs are consistent with the PD approval and all other city codes. I think because this is an intriguing new idea that we like, we're take trying to take the extra step here to make sure that once everything is done, ready to
go, there's still some level of comfort we have with how they'll be used going forward. >> I think I think we're all in agreement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The other thing I'd want to consider is that residential noise standards apply.
>> What? the res in our noise ordinance the residential standards apply. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> That would be the catch to >> I'd assume that it does anyways. >> Never assume. >> So there is an agreement then that the residential noise standards would apply
to this project >> to the booth. >> There's a there's different levels of what residential is different from the commercial. >> If you're commercial, you can have lower levels than if you're residential. And since you're right next to residential, I want you to have the same as they do. >> Yeah, I have no problem with that.
>> Okay. >> So, that would have to be a condition in your approval as well. >> That was a lot of them. >> So, you want a wall with golden lions. You want >> Yes. No. >> Final approval of HLA docs. You want
>> Appreciate your >> reorient the buildings. >> Reorient the buildings. >> Reorient buildings >> and residential noise require. residential noise standards HOA docs wall >> and then are you keeping the 35 foot as recommended by staff or the 25 foot that
currently exists >> I'd like 35 ft but I put in a wall you want 35 ft and a wall >> I don't know that they can do 35 and a wall >> you wanted the wall in lie of the 35 ft >> I don't think they can do 35 ft
>> um >> he wants the wall of 35 >> the fence doesn't impede the drainage that's currently in that easement. Correct. >> I just know that that's an easement. I'm assuming that's because it goes all the way from narcissist to all the way to that pond. >> Right.
>> So, I don't know if that was a cross access originally cuz I mean the whole thing was a putt originally, right? And then when the market went south, they decided to do residential and that's why it switched out of what probably would have been approved easily for us to where it is now. So, I don't know what
that easement I have a feeling it's more drainage than anything else, but I don't think there's a pipe that exists. >> Well, there are trees in it. >> Um, >> I just want to make sure the footers of a >> There's trees in our drawing. It's all cleared that that from Narcissist all the way to the pond is relatively
cleared. I think the fire station has >> a photo >> a bit on there. >> Those are >> I don't know how Google Maps is, but >> those are things 46. It looks like this at least as of this image.
>> Are there trees there now? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> They could have been cleared since this picture was >> Let's see. >> February. >> They were there. It looks to me like that easement runs
on either side of the property line. Yeah, I don't see any trees. >> Certain I don't see any trees. Certainly not what's on there. >> David has confirmed that it is a drainage easement. >> I just want to make sure that if you put the requirement for a wall, it doesn't
>> Is this something we can >> Yes. >> Can second Can we talk about this on second reading when we have some more information? >> I would include it in your motion at this time so that Miss Green and I can put the ordinance together for second reading. It's easier to strike a
condition than to add one. >> I got every condition except for this last one, which is the the buffer because what I have is the final development order um includes the conditions and code requirements to include a wall. The city shall have
authority to approve or review the final HOA documents. Um adhere to the residential noise ordinance requirement and revision of the reorientation of buildings. There's one more
that that's the buffer part, right? >> Yeah. Making it a 35 foot buffer instead of 25, right? >> Aka a 35 ft buffer with the wall. >> No, 35 with a wall. And then we'll talk
about it next time. >> All right. Does that require the whole motion? Uh, I move to approve ordinance number. Is this the same ordinance 20254836 >> on first reading to amend the Cedar Point PD?
>> You don't have an ordinance number for this? >> Yeah, it's the same ordinance. >> It's the same. >> We're adding it. >> You're going to add it. >> Yeah. Because originally it wasn't in it because the planning and zoning commission recommended denial. >> But it's the same ordinance. >> This is for lots eight and nine, right? Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. I just want to make Okay. I move to approve ordinance 20254836 on first reading to amend the Cedar Point PD standards to amend the plan development zoning for only the 2acre portion lots 8 and 9 of the Cedar Point
PD aka Thornbrook to increase the intensity and modify the standards for the commercial land uses along White Cedar Road by allowing warehouse uses in addition to the permanent RC1 zoning uses based on consistent consistency with the goals, objectives,
and policies of the city comprehensive plan and subject to the development order. That includes the city having final authority and or review of the final HOA documents. Adhere to >> final review, not authority, right?
>> Approve. Well, it says have authority to approve or review the final author the final HOA documents. uh adhere to the residential noise ordinance requirements, include a wall and a 35- ft buffer, and
the revision and reorientation of the buildings that includes all staff and city recommended conditions. >> Is it >> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. >> Sounded right to me. And then we'll come back and >> and hash out the details next meeting.
Move to approve. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Any further discussion? >> Wait, how did he I made the motion. So, how did he move to? >> I move to approve. So, Carrie would have to second. >> Commissioner Wiggins is second. >> My bad. >> Second. >> All right. Third.
>> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> Pass unan >> and we'll see. >> Thank you next time. >> Thank you. >> And get off your wait. Now get off the plate immediately. >> Yeah. And Eileen, you'll work with me on the or the language ordinance language
in between sec now and second reading. >> Okay. >> Back to the cliff office by Wednesday >> like Wednesday. Tomorrow >> day after tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. >> Well, it might be.
Take care of yourself. >> Okay. That brings us to citizen participation. I do have one request for Mary Snipes. >> Yay, Mary. >> Oh, no. I'm impressed with your knee. >> Well, I've been impressed with her. He's
had one and I've had two. Mary Snipes. Excuse me. It's been a long time sitting there for her zero South Summerland. And there is an N in my name. I'm not Cypes. Um, snipes. I saw in something that that was spelled wrong. Just want to um readress
something that if you remember or may remember that I had been upset that I did not have a working street light on my block and then myself and my neighbors were upset that our street was illuminated like a ball field. Then shields that directed the light were added and for now everyone does seem
pleased. I recently learned that James Beard suddenly passed away. >> And I felt ashamed of myself that I had not thanked him for his effort. >> Um I I'm going to guess that he thought giving us four street lights in our
neighborhood would make us happy. Uh in his last email to me, he said, "I drove by there this morning. You're all lit up." It may be late, but I want to thank him for all his efforts as I would like to thank all the city's employees, all the
city employees in Sanford for what they do for us. >> Thank you, Mary. Also, as our commissioners, I know you don't get a lot of gratitude on Facebook and things, but I do know that you care and try. So, thank you. I'd like to call out my parks
and wreck because I hang out at the senior citizens center now and I love our seven six exercise classes they've added for us and I also hang out at the museum and they do a lot with not much especially um but they do a lot of
things. I especially want to call out Breijit. She is so creative, energetic and full of Sanford history. >> So those are two things that I'm really enjoying at Samford. So to close, I've been thinking a lot this weekend and I keep wondering why do we sometimes have
to get angry to get things done in our city >> and is that not a better way to reduce conflicts? >> So thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mary. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else in the audience wish to um speak to the commission?
>> I only get angry at her. I don't get angry anybody else. Join the crowd. >> He can handle up where I was trying to explain myself before I told you I dealt with the city. >> It's a check that I wrote to the city.
>> He wants to speak, right? >> Yeah. >> Well, I can pass. Let me explain myself. My name is Darlene Campbell and two and a half years ago my husband passed away. And in order to straighten out his situation,
we was dealing with code enforcement because the property I bid it on years ago had violations, but the city was trying to buy it also. And they even got on the news saying they was going to
knock down the house that was on it. Anyway, I inherited all those bills that they said that they they took over. I paid the bill on the 23rd and then I was getting built again while
I was dealing with code enforcement. I can't understand why you you would come after a lowinccome senior citizen with a handicap over money that I just paid and then you billing me again. I thought that was very unfair and nobody wants to talk to
me and I don't want I want to be able to go to my people and ask before I go to a lawyer because this is not fair. I just paid $11,000 out of my little bit of money from my husband's estate. And the same time when
I got the check, paid the check, code enforcement was getting in touch with me. They didn't never get in touch with me. They never called me, but they knew of me. Uh, Mr. Lady was talking directly to me. So, I can't understand why they
couldn't raise the phone or send a note because I didn't know the rules and the regulations of having a house and that my mail was going to the house that we was in question about to fix to to to get the estate sold. Right. I paid the
money. me while they sent me. I had all the paperwork. I made sure I got a paper. I wanted y'all to see it because on 10 10 23rd of the 23, they got the check. They knew who who
who I was. They could have easily called me because they was dealing with me cuz we had to straighten out everything through Mrs. uh the lady that just uh uh retired. So, she knew me. So, I couldn't understand why would they come after me
again? I'm I'm poor. Why if I give you $11,000, why are you coming for me and letting it build up to its uh uh $20,000 again? And you know who I am. That's not fair. And I'm asking for them to dismiss
this code because I paid right then and they could have got in touch with me. I got all the paperwork to show y'all. >> Ma'am, didn't you come before us before? >> Yes, I did. >> Yes, I remember that. >> I couldn't explain myself cuz I got excited and
>> but I have the check >> and the code enforcement at the same time. >> They they could have miss what you call him? I can't think of her name right now. She could have called me and said, "Miss Campbell, I don't know where that mail that mail's not get getting to you.
Did you go and change the information? I didn't know that. When you buy property 12, 13 years ago, Sanit was back in the woods. They were slow cuz the property was going cheap. >> And the city of Sit wanted that that
that piece of lot on 904 Celery. They got on the news, the old code enforcement man. He said, "We're gonna knock down this house." I didn't know that it was going up for auction. and we didn't really me and my daughter was just trying something. >> So, we brought the the property, but it
was a miscommunication with the taxdeed people and the city of Sanford. So, I knocked down the house. I paid a lot of money on this property. Why hit me when you just get a check for $11,000? Right.
>> This is wrong. And I just want somebody to help me. >> I don't have nothing. >> Mr. Mayor, may I suggest that Miss Campbell get with the Tony Bremundo and have him look over and see what needs to be done? He's our director for code enforcement. >> Yeah, but I just want to show him all
the things cuz maybe he didn't know what was going on. He only knew about the the the first code enforcement bills that I was paid. I need y'all to step in. I need I need y'all to go on top of what's going on in code enforcement. They they
just can't keep coming after poor people and just hit them one time big and then come back again and hit them again. I didn't know what was going on. I would have clean my property. I've never kept a dirty property. >> I'd like Mr. Romano to be able to evaluate it and then he can advise us on
what he thinks is the next step. >> Okay. So, just bring all these papers to him. >> He'll see you before you leave and you can see what we need to do. >> Okay. Thank you, ma'am. >> Thank you.
>> Is there anyone else that wants to speak to the commission? >> Okay. See no, I'll close that. Um, we have a increase in purchase order 39222. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting the increase in purchase order 39222
to Corin Mills, Maine for $1 million. And this is for the mass meter exchange project. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. Motion. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Passes unanously. Budget transfer for um the force main
replacement. >> Yes. The staff is requesting commission approval for the replace procurement of Cath Hut construction for the 18 in water wastewater force main installation at airport and country club in the
amount of $7,700,000. >> Any questions or motion? Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Resolution 3422. >> Yes. Staff is requesting commissioner approval of resolution 3422, a budget
amendment to reallocate funds received from the PAS class action settlement in the amount of $2,21,92.78 as described in the agenda memo. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed?
Passion nsley. Resolution 3423. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, staff is requesting commission approval of resolution 3423, amending the city budget in the amount of $668,528 and the approval of procurement for a budget tree service as described in the
agenda memo. >> Any questions or motion? Move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I oppose. Resolution 3424. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, city staff is requesting
commission approval of resolution 3424, adopting the city's new purchasing policy as just distributed questions or motion. >> Can we I'm just going to ask can we it don't know if anybody's here from the
purchasing finance department. Um Cindy, it would it be a problem if we tabled this one just so I could I could meet with you, ask a couple more questions. I just don't want to approve just because it's getting late. Um, I really want to look at it. We have some real purchasing
issues and some concerns that I might have and I'm just wondering if I can just dig into this a little bit more. >> Um, I don't have a problem. I know a lot of departments are paying on this. >> How much of what you gave us today is different from what we've already
discussed? >> Um, >> I don't know if that's a short answer. the same one except for the verbiage I did I did change on the change orders that y'all had approved which says change orders that increase the purchase order above the lesser of 10% or 75,000
um will come back to um commission unless they're under the 100,000 threshold basically everything else is the same >> okay same basic content just more detail What was that? >> For the most part, it's it's the same
contact content. And in addition to that, I reviewed the purchasing policy to clarify certain language and to edit it further. >> I'm just going to take you on that. I did, you know, I'm had a couple questions about the CCNA, but we're
good. I mean, >> you can still ask the questions. No, because I I I'd like to take my time and and and ask them in layman's terms and um I'm just see um basically in here it just says follow state. Okay. So you can ask
>> move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed nastly. >> Mr. Mayor, we did have the airport, >> right? Are you handling that one? >> Yes. Okay. We do have one last item. Uh there was uh presentation at least
explanation earlier today during the work session. Uh the Sanford Airport Authority is seeking approval and authorization to amend the 20 2020 2025 2026 fiscal year capital budget and operating revenue. Uh the uh change
would be the 1,155,000 with the understanding as to the presentation in the work session as to how that would be broken down. Move to approve. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? All in favor? I >> I
>> only because speak still here. >> Mr. Mayor, >> questions. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, I want to acknowledge that Nicole and George have the same philosophy about city commission actions as I do. I'll tell you what the
commission does after they've done it. Um, The other um that has to do with the airport is the air show. Um and Brady has worked with the air show um to do a sponsorship um of $10,000 that will
provide us advertising in their program ad reads during the um during the show throughout both days. um 20 tickets that we can provide to seminal high school um aeronautic and ROC students and they are
also providing 100 tickets a day um through the um police department. >> Brady is doing $10,000 from where >> from economic development >> for what? >> Right. As a sponsorship of the air show. Brady, do you want to come speak to it?
>> Yes, mayor, city commissioners, uh Brady Lassard, economic development director. Uh so this is a conversation that's been going on with the commission, the air show, the airport, obviously our our uh PD for about two months now. uh we were
asked to intervene and see if that uh there was an opportunity for the city to receive a benefit uh from an advertising perspective um in exchange for some concessions on behalf of the uh air show
folks. Uh Chief Smith and I have spoken about this. The mayor obviously Commissioner Austin made a comment uh at uh one of our previous commission meetings to uh see how we could make this work. Uh the logistics of the agreement that's being proposed uh by
the mayor, if I'm not mistaken, are the concessions that uh the mayor just discussed as far as advertisement in the um uh hand bill that will be provided to all the air show um attendees. Uh Main
Street is actually uh crafting the ad reads. Mayor, if the commission acts on your motion tonight, uh Main Street is developing three to four ad reads that would be read throughout the show both on Saturday and Sunday afternoon.
Uh I would as an aside of potential interest to the commission, the city manager and I have been talking about this and I do see that George is uh still with us tonight, but with the federal shutdown, there may be some programming changes that will certainly affect uh the air show. I don't want to
speak to that directly. George is here, but um uh there was a show in Atlanta um October 11th and 12th, so this yesterday and uh Saturday that were I believe affected by the federal shutdown. But
George, I would defer to you on that. They still >> so what George has confirmed what the concern that I expressed with the city manager that the uh department of war someone pointed that out earlier. I was mistakenly referring to it as department
of defense uh still uh has not determined air shows of the manner that are going to be the uh show that's going to occur here in Sanford is essential. So for anyone that would like to on the ground visit the C130s, the Apache
helicopters, see the F35s, the F-18 Hornet, I believe was advertised for this show. Uh that will barring a change in the federal lockdown, George, uh remain the case for this show. >> So how is what's the return on the city's investment in this, Brady?
Because not that I'm a well, I don't understand it, but I love the airport authority. Um, but we're talking about like the botanical gardens, Porchfest, MLK, Main Street. These are some things that we've got to discuss in the future
about partnerships, sponsorships, and stuff like that. 10K is a lot for the air show that's going to make its own money. >> Commissioner, I concur with that. $10 is a lot when we're talking about taxpayer
dollars. Our department was asked to assist in facilitating a successful show this year. Uh I the mayor will share with you and the city manager will share with you as is the police chief on board with this. I am adamant about posttow
postevent us sitting down not just with the airport but with the air show uh promoter and seeing actual documented placer AI uh is one of the examples I'll use to generate a better understanding
moving forward on an ROI of any participation of the city moving forward but certainly in this case uh what we're talking about tonight >> yeah talked about this idea when we approve the the event. >> I I will add too there's there's a
little bit of shifting shifting deck chairs around here, right? >> The airport cannot spend money on the airship. Interestingly enough, FAA regulations prohibit us from doing that, but we can um do marketing
>> sponsorships um for other entities. And so in the past, that's what we have done. We have sponsored fireworks. We have um supported um some of the charitable organizations associated with the city.
So there will be a return in the sense that we will sponsor things for the air for the for the city because we can justify a marketing benefit out of that for the airport and that is an allowable expense. So, just want to there there's more. We mayor and I sort of worked this
out last year um and we'll do the same thing this year where we're able to sponsor things um that the city is engaged in um from a marketing standpoint. So, there's a little bit of a kind of, you know, you spend money here, we'll spend money there. Um we're just constrained at the airport of what
we can spend our dollars on and there has to be, we can't really market on our own property, but we can market at other events in the community. And so we try to do that to offset some of these kind of, you know, shifts in in marketing dollars from one agency to the other.
>> Jerry, >> I I think the airport just said they want to sponsor fireworks. >> That's right. >> And they want to sponsor things for the police department. >> I I will share that
Oh boy. >> Come on now. >> Was interesting that last year at our Hispanic event. >> Uhhuh. >> The Air Force sponsored. >> Oh, nice. >> After our meeting. >> Okay. >> Asking them to pay. They didn't this year.
>> Uhoh. >> Uhoh. Did he drop the money? >> He dropped. >> Hey, >> it's not a matter of me talking to her. >> George is the one who made that decision. >> Uhoh. Uhoh. >> Okay.
>> So, not moving. >> All right. All right. >> All right. >> Chief Okay. >> Okay then. >> All right. So, I would couch it and as give
>> Brady the authority to do the sponsorship if the show continues as planned. Mayor, I' I'd prefer that the commission make the determination formally and then I would get with uh Miss Lindsay on uh
the logistics of of how we handle that. >> All right, >> that's a good answer for you. >> So, there'll still be birds in the air at the air show. >> Yes, ma'am. And Commissioner Thomas, to your uh point, and there was another commissioner that asked earlier, uh there was an additional uh security
measure that the chief was being tasked with as far as transporting or escorting, I should say, the Thunderbird pilots. This was the Air Force equivalent of the uh Blue Angels in the event that uh the Fed shutdown continues, and it appears to be likely that it will, uh that component would
not be uh necessary. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, up to y'all. >> Do we need it? >> We got Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, that's that's what I'm hearing from the audience. Will there still be birds in the air? Yes,
there will be a civilianbased air show. Uh I believe there's a P-35 Mustang that's operated by civilian pilot >> P-51. Mike in Atlanta. They brought in some additional stuff to make up for the military absence. I would imagine they
might do the same. >> So, yes, Commissioner Thomas, I'm sorry I didn't get to that point. >> I'll give you 5,000. >> Who? I thought it's coming out of economic development. >> I I think she city money. >> I'm giving Brady money to give for himself. >> I know it's city money, but I'm saying
it's coming out of his line item from economic development. Right. Okay. You want to give? >> Okay. So, what do y'all want to do? >> Are we We have to approve this. >> Yeah. Because we have to approve the spending of the for >> move to approve. >> Second >> for a public purpose.
>> For a public purpose. >> We're talking about 10,000 five >> 10. >> Okay. Okay. All right. All in favor? Any >> opposed? I
one. Okay. Um, >> city attorney, anything else? >> I have nothing else. >> City clerk, anything? >> No. >> City manager? >> Nothing at this time. >> Okay. Um, Commissioner Breton. >> Yes. I have something so important.
>> You want to come back to you? >> No. Um, yeah. Come come right back to me. I I >> want to thank uh everyone that played a part in the men's health huddle. Um great success we had over at Westside. Um
we had men check as well as uh prostate cancer check and uh great turnout. So, I'd like to thank uh the Florida Health Department, uh Simino County, uh City of Sanford Picnic Project, Unity Youth Association,
uh Simino County, um Healthy Star, uh Care Plus, True Health, New York Life, Career Source of Central Florida, and Foster Therapy. Um, we're looking to continuously partner with the health department to keep that going on a
yearly basis. As well as I'll have my uh community meeting next Thursday at uh Westside 6 p.m. And then following that Friday, we'll be at Coastline Park at 3 p.m. for anyone that needs groceries. That's it. >> M.
>> Um, I would like and I don't see Brent here. Oh, >> there he is. I would like a uh I would like an official um city
uh study done on the cost of moving the water treatment facility. We've always been told it's too expensive. We always been told it's $100 million. I want real numbers so we can put it to bed and we can let the taxpayers know
that we looked into it and it's x amount of money. We inherited this issue. We inherited this plant where it is. None of us here put it there. We are doing our best to maintain what
we have inherited as a commission and as a mayor up here. >> I don't think we doing our best to maintain it. But >> well, you're wrong. We are. Uh, but I appreciate you saying you're not. Mr. Johnson, I I would do like to ask you a couple
questions, please. Is the current issue due to the fact that our plant is overwhelmed and that we have overdeveloped our city? >> The current when you say current issue,
>> the odor control arm uh >> the stink. >> No, I wouldn't say it's because of um the the development. No, sir. >> Okay. You want him to >> Can you give us an update?
>> Go ahead and share. >> Okay. So, uh as it relates to the odor, um aside from some of the other things that we're looking at, some of the main contributors to the odor, we believe, uh are uh the odor control systems. There are two separate odor control systems at
the plant. one has been replaced. Uh that was a uh probably a eight or nine month process to finally get that installed and that's at the headworks. That is functional. We have another uh odor control system at our ATAD system.
Uh I know someone's going to ask what's ATAD. Um that is automal thermopilic aerobic digesttor. I know. Don't ask me to say it again. >> It's basically it heats the sludge up to
remove all of the pathogens to make it a class A bioolid is basically what it does. Uh and then we also have our solar dryer system which is another part of the drying process for the sludge. Uh that's also uh in the process of getting repaired. So we've ordered the second um
order control unit for the ATAD system. We because of the time it's going to take to get that unit. It's a customuilt unit. We looked into purchasing a much cheaper unit that may not get the exact same benefit, but will help. So, we're
making modifications to install that temporarily until we can get that permanent, which will it won't be until the end of November. Uh we were told a little bit sooner, but the latest uh update that we got was we won't receive that unit until the end of November. And then we're actively working on which was
another four or five month process, six month process to get a contractor on board to repair the solar dryer system which is basically the big greenhouse looking building uh in the corner of the plant. And so we're actively in the process of repairing that right now.
We're hoping that all of those things combined will help uh minimize the odor. And um as I said, we've and you all probably received the email on Thursday where we're also working on some internal processes that don't cost us any money. I know there's a lot of uh
things being thrown out there from uh companies and um and um you know, telemarketers, if you will, you know, marketing their products and how they can reduce the odor. We're aware of some of the things that we can do. Unfortunately, those things cost a lot and it requires a lot of testing in
advance of using those to make to basically ensure that the product is needed. Uh, but in lie of spending those funds, we're trying a process change that doesn't cost the city anything in conjunction with making all those repairs that I mentioned.
>> Thank you. That's the short version. I would point out that in the city manager reports through August um public works mentioned 47 um maintenance or repair items at the plant. Um, so
again, I would I would like us to uh study moving the plant. Um, >> and what it would cost >> and what it would cost um, and for future purposes. Uh, I know you answered this question
for me before, but I'm going to ask again. Okay. The part that we're waiting on, we cannot keep in stock. It's special order to fit our unit as it is. Right. >> Yes, sir. But what we did do is um as a
part of another project that we're doing, we did order a backup for that particular part. Um that one lasted us probably about two years. So it was just easier for us to go ahead and put one on, you know, on, you know, on hand and in stock to
replace if something does happen to it. So although we normally wouldn't, we did in this particular case purchase another one. >> Well, you just said that you you you you just made the statement that this could only be it it couldn't be
ordered. >> No, it's it's a special build unit that we have to order. We it's it's built just for our our plant. All the specs are just for what it is that we need. We wouldn't normally keep that on hand, but because we had issues, this is we we
purchased one about two or three years ago, we had that same one repaired. So instead of trying to wait another eight, nine months to purchase another one if it were to go down, we decided it just makes sense for us to go ahead and have one on hand even if it's sits around for
two years. It just >> be proactive and do that. But what >> Commissioner Austin was trying to make a statement that it could not have been pre-ordered, but I mean ordered ahead of time and you're saying it could have been, >> right? But we didn't know it was going to. So the reality of it is we never
know when things are going to break. I mean, we can purchase something and they'll tell us that >> it's going to last 5 years, 10 years, but that's under certain conditions. We don't know how long it's going to last under our conditions or based on how often we use it. So it's hard to dictate and determine. We may get a pump that
says it's a 10-year pump and it could go. I mean, we bought a diesel generator. >> Okay, we know that, >> right? Previous meeting you told me that we cannot keep this part on unstock. >> We normally would not. No.
>> Okay. You you did not say normally would not. You said we cannot. Well, because it's a specialty unit, but given the fact that now we've had issues with it, when I was able to go back and look at how long it's been since we purchased that unit, we decided that it
may be best to go ahead and have a unit on hand. Now, that may not normally be the case. I mean, if we have >> Okay. Okay. Moving forward, we plan to try to have this unit on stock. >> Yes, sir. That particular unit. Yes,
sir. All right. Let's treat our plant like it's a space station and have redundancies for everything, >> right? Is >> I know it costs money. >> So there's no there's always a smell emanating from the planet. >> Yes. >> Always.
>> Typically it doesn't go as far as it is right now. >> Correct. But you're telling us tonight now that there's more than one issue you believe that's causing this? >> Well, no. What I'm saying is yes, there's a couple of things that we
believe are contributing to it. It's those three things that I mentioned. The two order control units >> and the solar dryer. >> All right. And how many of those are going to be fixed by November? >> All three of them should be up and working by the end of November. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Yes, sir. Commissioner Thomas. >> Well, I was going to say I believe it or not have nothing, but I'd like to supplement that a little bit. Thank you, Commissioner Austin. Um, >> we have I think that's the reason you're thinking about and it's been on my mind
too is do we have any possibility of relocating the plant? You've inherited something. We all know this. It's old. Things are going to break. We've got a logistics coordinator specialist, something >> an inventory specialist.
>> Inventory specialist who's going to do a very thorough job of looking at each and every part and where are we with it? How old are they? What are the chances it's going to go? And I hope that we will do as good a job as we can to the citizens explaining to
them that we are trying to anticipate as best we can these things that are going to go and not be in a defensive posture, not be just saying we're fixing it, we're mandating it. We
have to be as fully transparent as we can about everything that's happened, why it's happened, discovering later what might happen. Here are the costs of other options up and to and including a different plant and why it's impossible
for us to do that unless you want to increase our taxes to the point where, you know, we'll have 500 people at the next meeting complaining about that. So, >> well, that that's that's part of what I hope to accomplish
>> if we if we do this. I want a solid number so then we can say this is what it would cost per household estimate, >> right? To do to do a project of this magnitude. We are very very fortunate
that new water treatment plant is mostly being taken care of through the state uh >> at least as far as the uh >> correct but sewage treatment plant >> that's up to us >> that's on us. Mhm.
>> Um, and so I I just want I I I want to put some things to rest uh and have some some solid information uh as we move forward. I personally I personally would have liked to seen
uh or or or still see uh a statement uh or or or or an update from the city manager to the public uh on this issue. Um and perhaps uh a little bit from Mr. Johnson as to
where we are, how we got here, and and where we're headed. Uh it's it's been hanging out here for a few weeks now and I've been quiet and I've been well behaved, but I'm I'm starting to get on the
fringe. Uh so I would like to see uh some of that. I'm sorry to take up your >> hug your tongue, Claudia. >> Well, we're saying the same thing here. Is there any chance that we're going to do any more testing that might increase
the odor? because obviously we did do that test and sure enough somebody just said something about it right away. >> Right. So we as I stated we we looked at some things that we could do at the plant to reduce the odor. There was a
process change that we identified and as a part of that process uh it would have potentially increased the odor before it reduced it. >> And um I know that I've gotten mixed um comments or mixed feedback. Some people say that it reduced, some say it got
worse. I know I was here myself personally riding around the plant on Sunday. I smelled it immediately south of the plant, but nowhere else. And it was only for a few blocks south of the plant. Uh but uh nonetheless, that is an it's a process where it requires
iterative cycles. So we keep cycling it uh because we can't it's not an instant change. It's something that we have to keep running cycles on until we can make it a permanent. >> So that's still going on. That could still happen. >> Still going on. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, we'll just have to look
forward to the end of November. >> Yes. >> That's it. >> Commissioner >> um the majority of the people of Samford uh appreciate and will accept the truth. They will not accept a bunch of excuses.
And Patrick, you are dead wrong to tell me that I am wrong because replace, functional, maintenance, actively working on testing in advance, those are all maintenance words. So I said they haven't been maintained. It it has not been maintained. That smell they just it
it has gotten like stronger, but it has always been there. Valuchia County has uh wastewater treatments and stuff like that that does not smell like ours. We have a lot of excuses here in the city of Sanford. What you're doing right now is being proactive in ordering the
parts, but we were not proactive. Again, I totally agree that we inherited this system, but all these excuses that we're making and then when we put out false information, this will be handled by November. Then when November and December, we're having the Christmas parade and you can still smell that
crap, then we look like a bunch of liars. We just cannot keep doing that. and and the marketing of it has been despicable. I looked on Sanford 327 and saw this whole like giant ghost booger, whatever it was, talking about Sanford
stink that they've done with AI. That is embarrassing. My residents in district 1 are complaining about home value. I've brought it up to the commission. I'm no longer talking to Mr. Johnson. I'm talking to you, the commission. We are responsible for this and we are allowing
it to happen. We are we we are it is ridiculous that we haven't held people accountable for this stuff. And I'm I'm not gonna continue to argue all night about this because y'all already know what it is. We just got to stop making excuses. That ends the D the D1 report.
>> Okay. And we are adjourned.