--------- We'll go ahead and call to order the meeting Sanford City Commission meeting and work session for Monday, March 23rd, 2026. Commissioners Thomas and Britain will not be here for the work session, but should be here but for the 7 o'clock meeting. And we have one item on the agenda, Mr. Bart.
>> We actually have two. We have two. We have the agenda item as listed by the opportunity slide by Craig, but I've also asked Miss Elizabeth Jones to provide uh kind of a briefing for your work session on Saturday. >> Okay.
>> So, Mr. Radzac. >> Okay. Good afternoon, uh, mayor and city commissioners. Um, what we did, and this is in your packet, and Chris is going to display it on the screen, too. the the previous uh request for qualifications document the summary that we provided we
kept the first three pages about the same and then on starting on page four which is highlighted the phase development approach item you'll see there what we did is we kind of refined it to concentrate on parcel parcels two and three which is the milling lot
across between the library and Monroe Hall and the grassy lot that's parcel two is the grassy lot um between the civic center and the county courthouse house parking and um I'm going to go over this and then CPH is here. I'll introduce them to go over the passive
park design. Passive Park design is about 90% complete and this was a a design work that was funded by CPH and they're about done with that. So, they're going to be here to kind of present that item and answer any questions you may have. But first off, on the RFQ that's up on your screen
there, we um we're concentrating on the southern line of parcel 3, which is the second paragraph, and we've kind of refined it to use some mixed uses there, including uh a building that's about 25 to 30,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space on the ground floor and
then a multi-story structure or complex with a maximum of four stories. So, we're looking at um detailing that out with parking structure to accommodate about 200 parking spaces and we're looking at about 25 to 50 high residential units on the upper floors.
And that's what we have for um parcel two. And then for parcel um parcel three, I'm sorry, parcel two, the passive park is um is the southern part actually the northern part of the
grassy lot. And I'd like to introduce uh Chip Smith and Denita Bryant from CPH. They have some uh pictures of that design work that they'll display on the screen. They'll just go over it with with you if you all right, mayor, and answer any questions you have. Again, this is the the design work that was
funded by the CRA and it's about 90% done. So, thank you for coming. >> Thank you. And >> good evening. Uh my name is Chip Smith. I work as a project manager with CPH. I've been working there for 20 years now.
>> I'm Denita Bryant. I'm the CPH. I'm a landscape architect. And in regards to this lot, um, what we were brought to do for this design was kind of incorporate these three plazas here, which you see on the northeast
section of that plaza one. Um, we had a pavered area. It takes into account some of Sanford's historical uh, paddle wheel steamboats. So, we have that pattern in there. and it's surrounded by two per
two pergolas that have seat walls underneath those. We have the winding the winding pathway that leads over to Plaza 2, which also has another pergola over there that has also some more pavers, but also a
concrete van that has more seating with benches instead. And then we wind back over to the northeast and that is a larger plaza area that is also pavered but then has a seat wall around that
southwest section of it. Um this also does have a couple amenities with obviously sight lighting. Um we'll have bench areas here and there. Um there is a water fountain and also
bike parking. So I will leave Dina to the landscapist. She is the publicist. >> Uh yes, we've designed a garden through the trelluses and along the path with some larger trees which are magnolia and
palms. And then as we go along the path, we're down into more of a butterfly type situation where we're introducing pollinators and host plants. We were trying for a nice passive relaxing feel to the design.
We thought that Oh, >> pull pull the mic closer to her maybe. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> You're fine. >> I just I I didn't understand what you said about the after the magnolia and palms. >> Yeah, we have those are our big our big trees are mostly, you know, magnolia, palms, a few others live. There's some
live oaks in there and holl. And then the design goes from in between the plazas to uh more of a butterfly garden type feel with pollinators and host plants. >> And then um I know we skipped over a slide and I apologize for jumping over
that but um you'll see on some of these uh pergolas we also have design that's supposed to incorporate some lighting along the the columns. So at night we'll still have some sort of lighting through that.
>> And any questions on the passive part design while we have CPH here? >> Can you go back to the one of the ones with the um the design on it? So, where where
is the bottom of that piece? And how much how much of that entire lot is this taking up? >> This is only about half of that lot. >> Half of it. >> Yeah. >> So, we're not the entire parcel does not show on that drawing. >> No. >> Okay.
So that would be let's just say that's the uh northern half of the lot. >> Correct. >> Okay. What uh well I guess it's there's no estimated cost value yet I guess. Right.
>> No. No. >> And that uh the big round circle in the north >> northeast northeast. >> Yes sir. Is that where the fountain is? >> Originally, there was discussion of a
fountain that was nicked very early on. >> Oh, really? Then there was going to be a sculpture that was put there instead. That sculpture has since been moved. >> Right. >> There has been no discussion since that point of besides being a meeting area or
>> I thought you said a fountain >> originally. >> No, no. When you were talking your way through it, I thought you mentioned a fountain. >> No, a drinking fountain. >> Drinking fountain. Yeah, that's not the kind of phone I want. >> Yeah. When this first came up, when the
and it's the the design has gone way beyond that original um discussion was to to keep it as open as possible. Um and so I think that's why the fountain was taken out originally.
>> Okay. a little bit. It looks like we still have plenty of space for a fountain. >> Yeah. >> Um, so the circle is just empty space right now >> currently. Yes. >> We don't need Is it Is it concrete? Is it grass? Is it >> No, it's pavers. >> Papers.
>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Any other questions, comments? Um, when I when I envisioned a passive park here, um, I I really wanted some green space. I
want I wanted us to keep something green downtown and not have everything built over and paved over. Um, so this this accomplishes part of that. Um,
is this a little too repetitive next to the amphitheater next to the civic center? Does that make sense? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. >> Um, because it will sort of connect the civic center and the marina and
downtown. >> Okay. >> Um, I think it's far enough away. >> I hadn't really envisioned the the vertical stuff with the pergolas and stuff. >> No, this I kind of like that. I'm not opposed to it. Uh because I would assume that the goal
is to to grow some kind of vine off there that that flowers maybe. >> Oh, we can add that. Not in the design currently. >> Okay. >> I mean, that's what I would do in my yard, but this isn't my yard.
>> Um Okay. All right. So Craig, this is being provided in the proposal sort of as a and we wouldn't mind you paying for this >> right >> with as part of your project. >> We could do that. Right now it's just a
request for qualifications. So the the solicitation will go out for qualifications and then when we select the developer then that would be part of the negotiation later. >> Okay. >> Unless >> that's another question I had when we when we get back to that.
>> Okay. And um lastly, I think we wanted to wait on the first parcel, parcel one, which is the courthouse parking lot. We wanted to wait in collaboration with Seminal County on that. So, it's part of the solicitation, but it says phase two. So, I just wanted to bring you up to that.
And then, um and that's really it. I wanted to leave a lot of time for you guys to discuss it. And the plan is when we get to construction documents 100%, then we include that in the solicitation as everyone knows what it is. And then we can go from there. And that's what I was going to get to the the request for
qualifications and then we could start u selecting and negotiating from there. So really >> I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. >> So basically in the RF is RFP or RFQ. I can never get those alphabets right. >> A Q. This is a Q. >> Uh basically in the RFQ we would list
this space as this is what we what we would like to see here. >> Yes. >> And as the mayor, >> what can you do for us? >> Yeah. Um I think we would have to get to that point where if they would build this for us um as part of a deal is I
think what the mayor's indicating, >> right? >> Um and however we work the first parcel, the the first street facing parcel which is parcel two, parcel three, excuse me. Um however we work that and I just wanted to make sure you were fine with what we're proposing in parcel three with the mixeduse up to four stories.
We've refined it a little bit more. The previous RFQS that we received had a lot of apartments, a lot of housing not much retail restaurant. So, we really wanted to make sure this is what you wanted in the in the proposal or the summary RFQ before moving any further. So,
>> well, uh our subject matter experts sitting in the back corner there. I would like >> Yeah, I would like his uh >> want him to come down. >> Yeah, you great. >> Yeah. >> Um and well, are we done with um
>> Oh, I'm sorry. the folks from CPH they don't have to keep standing there. >> No, absolutely. Thank you guys. Thank you. >> All right. >> I've seen your name for years, but I don't know if I've seen the face yet. So, now I can finally match the face with the name. >> All right. So, let me let me grab a
question before we go down your road. Um, are we asking for qualifications and then we're going to try to, you know, once we find somebody that we think can build something, we're going to negotiate what we want built or were we asking them what is their proposal for
this property? Because I thought that's what we originally were were talking about doing is getting some ideas of what, you know, the developers would want to develop. And I guess the last time they just proposed apartments.
>> Yeah. And that's >> So I mean I think it's >> it's there a middle ground here where in their because it goes into these are the kinds of things we'd like to see. Are they going to actually give us you know here's a sketch of something we might
build or is it only going to be here are the things we've done before and you know we can build whatever you want. Well, >> so The reason I wanted him to come up here is I I have something to offer that
might help in this entire discussion. >> Uh Mr. Lassard, um it's my understanding that uh that retail might be a little bit of a pipe
dream. Um, and that in order in order for somebody to want to build something here, they're going to want a residential component because that's where the ROI is.
Um, the ROI is not an empty retail space, an empty restaurant space. The ROI is beds and and and heads. 100% agree, Commissioner. I I think that any retail component, restaurant component would certainly be ancillary
to the overall use of residential. So I I say that because I I think we are really at a crossroads here as to whether we um offer a parcel or two up for sale
and whether someone is going to come along on an RFQ and and give us what we what we think should be there versus what they can actually uh make money off of. I I agree and Craig and I have spoken at
length on that front. Uh I do not believe that we are going to get u the soft cost investment the the type of planning the type of investment in the responses unless we pre-market and really shape what the the private sector
responds with. So whatever the commission's direction is and Craig and I have talked about this I strongly recommend that we premarket this. the the capital markets don't necessarily watch government websites for investment opportunities. So, once we've finalized
this, uh, and Craig and I have talked about it, I we've received offers. I've I've tried to start that pre-arketing process. >> Uh, one of those offers has the novel concept of them actually purchasing the property. Okay. Uh but I I still think the the city holds the trump card in
this regard from a planning and and zoning perspective. The city would still be able to shape uh that I I do believe that this uh park component could be absorbed by the private sector rather than public dollars. >> But but um I'm becoming increasingly
concerned as to whether the parking uh dream is absorbed by the private sector. Um, and so then I I think that any kind of discussion there is is going to end up being, well, we need X amount of
dollars from the city. >> So, uh, it's it's funny you mentioned that, Commissioner. the the most recent unsolicited proposal that that I've been having discussions with a group on. Uh they had the idea of residential, which is their their
primary objective, some ancillary retail uh and then splitting a parking uh structure. Uh I would suggest that that the numbers we looked at for constructing a uh 400 spot uh parking garage on public dollars would be significantly more expensive than what
the private sector would do it for. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So our our goal would be to replicate the parking that we have there currently or get as close to that as possible with the private sector absorbing their residential use contributing to the public use because that ancillary retail
uh would drive additional traffic to their site. It's it's similar to a model that in my previous life we did in Lake Mary at the uh the station which is the Sunreil apartment complex that does have some associated retail but to your point
a lot of that retail has struggled. Fourth Avenue has kind of been very successful. The retail on site's been a little less successful. >> There's there's nothing there. >> That's correct. Well um >> no I'm there every day. There's there's nothing there.
Um, I just uh I want us to paint a picture of what we want. >> No doubt. >> Uh, but I want us to be mindful of the fact that uh
that other than the space uh and and the property, we don't hold many cards. I don't think. Um, and I'm and I'm just being real. Um, >> well, for now, since we own the land, we have all the cars.
>> True. But but look at look at all of the lack of progress around downtown. Um the the new concept on Palmetto is uh the Mark Nation project is uh I could go on and on. Um we have
empty buildings. Um, I I don't I don't see uh a developer going, "Oh my gosh, we could pop so and so right there. They they would love this spot." Well,
there's nothing else. There's really nothing else. >> There's nothing else. >> There's nothing else driving people downtown right now. There's a there's a few great restaurants and and and some great bars and and what a handful of
retail. >> Well, and that's the idea of bringing the residential, >> right, >> to drive the need for the >> right >> the other the commercial. >> But again, we we we often have this this pie in the sky dream of of the island
and downtown, but we forget that we have that huge body of water. Yeah, >> that uh that is what uh about 180 degrees of no beds and no heads um when when you put a pin in the map.
Um and so it sometimes I'm afraid our our Sanford rosy glasses are are maybe a little too uh narrow-minded um as to what what the possibilities are.
So, I I don't want us to to to lock ourselves in. I don't want us to necessarily miss an opportunity here. Um, and so that that's where I'm concerned. And I I just feel like we
need to to not feel like we can ask for the world and get it. uh because we tried that once on the corner lot and >> well I I will say uh I think the commission is wise and the the mayor and and you all have discussed this
throughout the last few months. I I do think it's wise to take that block that that Craig's RFQ is currently addressing as as a standalone take it to the market. um inescapably I can tell you there will be 220 to 260 residential
units proposed in everyone's identification of of the site. >> Uh but I I do think what we need is in that pre-arketing effort, we need the private sector to absorb $50,000 worth of soft costs because they feel there's
an upside rather than the $3 to5,000 that the previous responses both in the first iteration and the second iteration. It's it's a collection of resumes that's returned. We need folks to actually uh spend money uh responding to this.
>> Was do either of y'all know when CMI was um looking at the proposals for hotels? Yes. >> Were those requests for qualifications or were those requests for specific proposals? >> I believe that was a request for proposal and it was relatively successful. Mayor,
>> see that's why I'm confused by request for qualifications. That's >> Are we going the wrong way with this? >> Anybody? >> No. >> I I And not to divert from from the RFQ uh method, but I I would be seeking
RFPs, proposals, actual proposals, because an RFQ does not require the private sector to spend hard dollars planning what will be successful for them. An RFP would. What does that entail changing from an RFQ to an RFP?
>> Well, I think Craig makes a good argument for an RFQ as well. I just uh from my perspective uh an RFP uh would flush out the private sector in a way that an RFQ does not. Anyone uh can
respond to an RFQ with the right resumes, right, together and submitted. So, I think we're going to need some more detailed information from the commission if we do RFP because they're going to want details. Instead of a range of 25 to 50 residential, you want
50. You want 51 for example. Um, we're leaving it open now because we really haven't decided what we really want there. And a proposal, it I think the difference really is, and I get confused too, but proposal will probably give you a price range or something and a
qualification will not. Um, so it really depends on how you want to go. If you really are decided on the first street proposal, what you want there, I think the RFP is way to go. Um, so if you want, you know, four stories, you want two stories, uh, those are the kind of
things that I think an RFP will require in my opinion. >> Right. And but >> I'm not sure I'm interested in necessarily a price because that's their problem. I mean, I'd be interested in what they want from us.
>> So, in a third alternative, >> in the terms of that price, what is it that >> mayor mayor, to your point, a third alternative is you offer this property for sale with the requirement of constructing those public improvements once uh CDs are complete by uh the
consultant. uh and and see what the market bears there because that is a true market uh return of proposals. This is a a price we will pay in exchange for X, >> right? >> And there will be hair on those responses because they'll say, well, can
we build 5060? But you all would at least have offers rather than simple proposals or qualifications for you all to consider. Hey, response A wants to build 50 town homes. response B wants to build 240 apartments, but uh offering that uh property for sale is is a third
route. >> But Mr. Mayor, Minister Commission, the issue that we had with Heritage Park is that Sanford Waterfront Partners couldn't get funding because they didn't own the property. >> Now again, it's the commission. If you want to control, then maybe there's ways
to do it. But without selling it, it's difficult for somebody to get the money to do something. The the problem I my concern with just selling it tomorrow is then we spend how much time going back and forth and reszoning processes. And
um that's why I would like to you know if if we have a proposal we like this I don't have a problem selling the land for that. >> Um >> and and to that point mayor market is truth. We we may put this on the market at a determined price by the commission
with with staff input and appraisal input and the market may say no. My strong belief would be that the market would say yes. We would potentially get four qualified offers which uh our staff could underwrite to make sure that there was the capital to
perform. Uh and then the commission would make that decision on who to proceed with uh on uh on that uh negotiation with >> because I know in CMI they came back two or three times >> with revisions to the proposal until the
commission >> and and that was uh the hotel proposal that you're talking about. There was actually three products that all had spent significant hard well soft dollars that became hard for two of the folks. >> Okay. And do we know if we don't it'd be
nice to find out um how did that play out at the end? Was it okay you decided what you're going to put there? We're selling you the land or do they was it a ground lease or >> It was not a ground lease. It was fee simple and mayor I I'll uh look into that. The OBJ just did an article on
this two or three months ago that I think circulated internally. Mr. Bonapart and I looked at but that is ab and similarly uh CMI was going through uh a process similar to ours back in the waterfront partners day the first
iteration of this and their project was constructed. >> Okay. >> Don't bring up sour grapes Mr. Lassard. No, no, just for reference though because somebody's very similar to us uh in many regards. >> How did how did they structure their so
it got done? >> Yeah, >> would be nice to know. >> Um okay, so we brought up the you we've got listed maximum of four stories. That's the current um that's by right I guess under the S
code. >> Yeah. And I I was going to offer if >> go higher than >> um I was going to offer to have Eileen come up if it's all right with the commission and just talk about it if she wants to because she helped Brady and and Chris and Pamela helped with this
RFP RFQ. So um she could provide some information so she could come up and address that question. >> Miss Lindsay has something. >> I think we kept it flexible maximum up to four stories. explain the difference between RFP and RFQ. And RFP is basically um you have
like the land. You tell them, okay, what can we do with this? RFQ you tell them what you want to do with it and they give you a price. That's basically the difference between an RFP. >> Say that again. >> An RFP is basically you have an empty piece of land, tell us what you can do
with it. An RFQ says we want this on the empty piece of land. Give us a price. >> Okay. We don't want an RFQ. >> See, I think we're I think we've wanted a proposal all along because we wanted
to know what >> Okay. >> Is is that what we tried on the other lot or am I crazy? >> I was just going to say that remember the last one we went we they gave us what they thought they wanted, which was a lot of housing, and we >> said we wanted something different. So, >> we're going back to that if that's what
you guys decide to do. We're go if we go to RP we're going to they're going to tell us what they're going to put there. >> Well, I don't want to beat the a horse that whatever. Um that that's why I I I feel like we're
just kicking the can down the road constantly here. Um we we are we are at a crossroads here as to whether we just go ahead and sell the property. We have the proper zoning. We have the proper protections or what they
can do with their property when >> we don't have zoning on it. >> We property is SC3. It allows them to do anything pretty much except for residential on the first floor. >> Okay. >> With Can we change that? >> You can. >> Okay. You can resone it to whatever
particulars you want it to be as a planned development. However, >> without knowing what the market's willing to do, you're just reszoning it spec and they may not react to that. So, I mean, both Brady's perspective and the
stuff that Craig and I have been working on on this side, if you sell the property, as the mayor has noted, you will lose all cards because they can do whatever they can do in SC3 and build whatever they want. It may not be what the city wants to see. It may be 99% um
residential. You may get a garage. You may get nothing. So, if you hold on to the property and figure out what they're willing to build and work together, whether it be through RFP or RFQ, the thing is if you ask for what they want to build, they're all going to come back
with residential right now. >> Well, that's the only thing that makes sense. I'm sorry, folks. That's the only thing that makes sense. >> But most of it pays the bills. >> What? >> Most of it is residential, >> right? Well, we allow residential second, third, and fourth floor, >> right? The other thing is it's only
allowed 50 dwelling units per acre. We only have I mean if we take out this piece and we take out, you know, the piece for the passive park, if we take out the piece for the parking lot for the the courthouse, right now we're down to less than two. So at less than two, you're not looking at more than 75 80
apartments. I mean, and that's stacked. That's small apartments and then trying to figure out how to make the parking and the four floors work. >> Well, then we're just wasting our time. So, I mean, if you sell it outright though, you lose all control. They can
put pretty much anything in SC3. >> The zoning of SC3 allows you to do pretty much whatever you want. >> There's no setbacks. There's no landscaping. There's no buffers. There's no >> open space requirements. Nothing in SC3. >> All right. Well, let's just make it all
apart. We're done. So the only option is RFP. >> I mean, I guess I'm naive or just don't understand. I feel like we there are people out there you can say we have this piece of land.
Here's an outline of the kinds of things we would like to see on it. are you interested in doing something like that? And if so, what will it look like? >> Right? So, >> that's kind of what we were attempting to do with this, but unless you want us to refine it further and refining it
further may um generate different offers because right now it's pretty broad. that says we have this much square footage and you can do up to this many things, but if you want to refine it as a commission and say this is really what we want to
see on this piece, that'll give us the capability of putting that in the request and people will know exactly what we're asking for. Part of what our I think the issue is is it's very broad and you know what comes back could be either anything or nothing because they don't know what we want. So why put
money and effort into something if it's going to get rejected? I mean, but it's basically retail first floor, >> residential >> above it, >> but it's limited in space. It's very limited in space. If you look at what we have left after taking out the pieces we
can't do right now, if you remove the park area, if you remove parcel one, you're down to just part of parcel part of parcel two and three. >> All right, so forget the park. It's only half a lot. How many acres is that?
It's not that much. So that >> whether we have the park or not, it doesn't gain us much. >> I'm just saying if you look at it from this map is really good because the total site is three. >> It's 2.22 acres of parcel two. >> Okay. So parcel two, if you take out
half, that's only an acre. At 50 dwelling units per acre minus the retail at the bottom, and you can't go more than four floors, maybe five on the side that's not in the district. you're still really confined to get the residential
that's supposed to get you the monetary gain. >> That's I don't mean to interject, but that's one of the reasons why along this lakefront you're unsuitable for >> that's where I thought the linear park was going to kind of make sense,
>> right? >> This area not building because you've got to make that commercial work. That's why that last thing it came back. I think the market is still trying to figure itself out.
>> Well, not not to get too far down that hole, but we really don't know what we are facing with all that's going on in the world right now. Um, >> okay. As it is now, you can do four
stories here. But you could do more here, right? >> Well, I'm trying to save the park. So, I'm looking at this piece of it. >> And no, Chris has a point because that whole northern portion is poor soils to be able to actually build buildings. The
park makes sense where it's at. And I'm not saying that it doesn't. I'm just telling you it cuts into the acreage. So you're telling people that they have two acres to make a part commercial, part residential project work and they can only go fourstory and they can only do
50 dwelling units per acre. >> Okay. What's that the 50 dwelling units per acre? >> Our maximum land use allowed in waterfront downtown. That's in our comprehensive plan. >> Okay. >> So we can't there's nothing I can do to exceed that.
>> So how did those apartments exceed that? They don't exceed 50. They are at 30 and change. >> Which apartments? >> The Vistas. >> The Vistas. Yeah. >> We approved. >> They're at 30 and change.
>> They're 30 per acre. >> Yeah. >> Oh, so they're counting up. >> All of their Yeah. All the build their retention bond. >> Yes. Everything that's buildable, 30 per acre and then it gets distributed from there. The only thing we take out are >> um bonafideed flood planes and wetlands.
So, >> so if it's actual flood plane that that falls on the property, we can't calculate it for density. >> Mr. Lassard again, am I am I crazy to to think uh not not
to butttheads with the mayor today, but Heritage Park was in the news, was in the news, was in the news, was in the news, it was in the paper. It It went on for what 10 years, >> seven, eight years.
If somebody wanted what we envisioned, would they not have come knocking? Would they not have come talk to Mr. Bonapart or you or >> Well, I I think throughout the process, Mr. Bonapart, >> yeah, there were people coming forward and saying when course they didn't show up after we
>> nixed the deal. >> Correct. partner. I think there were a number of >> but even when it when it would have fell through, nobody came saying, "Oh my gosh, we love that idea. We're going to do that. We can we can finance that
today." No, we can't. Um, I I would love to see us sell the properties and and recuperate uh our losses from from the previous um
previous event. I understand we lose control. I understand all of those. But I don't see it being any different than putting out a proposal going, "Hey guys, we got this property. What can you do?
That's what you do in the open market when you list it for sale. >> That is correct. >> Um and and if they pay our price for the property, that means that they know what they're getting and they're going to
try to produce that. Um and meanwhile, we've recuperated some of our taxpayer dollars back into our coffers. And if they don't produce, they don't produce. At that point, it's their property and their their loss of ROI.
Right, Attorney Green? >> So, are would we do a PD reszone on it before selling it? >> You could PD reszone it and restrict the uses and how it's used. If you wanted to go about it that way, at least you maintain control. And if they don't like
it and they want to do something other than what's allowed in the PD, they would have to reszone it and you would still maintain control. So I would say, Commissioner Austin, to your point, I've run these numbers. Eileen, we've we've all the city will be
made whole with whatever disposition decision the commission makes, the city will be made whole. The taxpayer uh will be made whole in that regard. I would caution though that we don't speak too ill of the soils along the lakefront prior to us putting it on the market. >> Well, but but I wanted to ask about
that. I thought we paid a lot of money to fix a lot of that. >> But it's public record, >> right? >> There most of the lakefront has required some mitigation of some sort. >> So if you'll look directly west, we've got the courthouse, very large
structure. Further west, you've got gateway. Whatever you think about the architectural >> celebration >> piles absolutely >> and the courthouse were mirrored construction the post office >> was search charged >> y
I mean it's it's common >> yeah the pilings for gateway were absorbed by the private sector they made the decision pilings and that's a very expensive process >> more pockets it isn't feasible construction. >> I don't uh I don't discredit the hard
work you've put into this and I don't discredit uh the the time and effort. I just feel like we How long you've been working on this buddy? >> I mean at the time it seemed like a
great idea. Let's go down this road. Now, I'm not so sure. And I think a RFP or a sale of the property is is really what we should be doing here. Um because because all of this has been public record every time you've
come to talk to us and ask us, hey guys, what do you want to do here? There are people listening to these meetings. There are people watching this on YouTube. And if they go, oh my gosh, I got a great idea for these guys. Let me go talk to them. Well, Brady will tell you, I've had developers reach out, when are you going
to present the RFU for the opportunity site again? And he he's saying and we receive unsolicited proposals all the time. >> Okay. Well, what do they want to do? >> Well, they vary. Um, some of them aren't as detailed. But if that's where the commission, if the consensus of the commission is to reszone at PD and then put it on the market, we we'll receive
unsolicited proposals. However, we do that, then we'll proceed that way. I think it's a very important decision and I know where you're at. We're just staff is just trying to help you get to where you want to be. Well, so let me ask you this. A different property we put on the market. I think we had some people kick the can
and and I haven't heard anything else since. Right. And uh and it's zoned what it's zoned and and could they squeeze this or that in there and and it's gone nowhere, right? And it's a piece of property we really wanted to sell.
>> Um and it's not downtown. >> Um >> this is the first time I've heard we want to sell it, though. This This was I don't think the commission has talked about selling the property. >> No, I'm just I'm talking about that other property. It has not sold it. >> Oh, okay. All right. >> We've had some people come and kick the tires.
>> Sorry. >> Um it and we've been working on that for a year. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Um I think it's time I think it's time to maybe be realistic a little bit with with how the market stands. um the interest rates if if they would
just drop the interest rates a little. From what I understand, the commercial construction industry would would be on fire. But everybody is sitting tight. Everybody's waiting. Everybody's uh on pins and needles. Quite honestly, I
think a lot of the stuff around the mall is is is stagnant. Um and and not a lot of people are kicking tires out there either uh because they're waiting to see what's going to happen. Well, and to that point, we don't have to move forward with this right now. >> No.
>> Right. No. >> And I think Go ahead. >> I was just going to say it doesn't cost the city anything to not move forward. There's no taxes. There's no mortgage. There's no, you know, it doesn't cost us anything except you have to mow it. >> Well, it's the lost opportunity of
>> correct. Right. >> The revenue and the people publicly. It's public parking lots. So, it's being used. Um, so yeah, >> I do agree though if we're going to if
you do want to put it on the market that your best bet is to do a restrictive PD zoning to at least get it out there, let it get sold, and then if they want to change it, they have to come before you to get permission to do something that you may or may not like.
And wait, could you said the proposals that came in were at like 200 something units >> that >> how is that if the only 50 >> if the most they could get would be at >> the time that wasn't inclusive of the park mayor. >> Okay. >> I think it was all of it. >> Correct.
>> Okay. including >> nice for the developer >> and and we're we're speaking theoretically here but the the one that I was mentioning earlier included parcel two parcel three and a vacation of that crossing there of commercial which I
know has been discussed in the past of vacating that that portion of commercial. Do we know what is happening with the corner lot that was originally uh >> tell me you're going to ask this
question can't wait >> was originally the uh headquarters of the previous deal >> same for waterfront partners. Yeah. >> So uh commissioner I'm happy to report to you and this is it. This is dirty work in the trenches. Eileen will share with you. I'll bring her a potential
buyer or she'll bring me a potential user. So, that lot is currently under contract. It closes on April 10th. >> I know it's been under contract. >> No, sir. This one's This one's very real. >> Okay. >> This one's very real. >> Do we know what they're >> Do we know what it is? Do we know? >> I would prefer to speak.
>> Okay. >> Offline on that. All right. >> That's been going on for like a year. >> No, sir. >> Yes. >> This went under contract. I'm doing the math here. 15. So, 11 days ago. >> Say we don't know about it. So, >> Right. >> Huh. >> We don't know about it. I know, but
>> we don't know how to >> But the deal's been in the work for like a year. >> Completely different buyer. >> MPA. Oh, really? >> No, no. Completely different buyer. This gentleman has been in touch with uh David Downey, who owns the building directly west of it. So, there's
collaboration happening there. >> But he is proceeding, this buyer is proceeding with the full knowledge that he will be subject to zoning and all of those things. I don't believe that parcel is in the historic district. I don't think so. I think it's off
>> but it is under the SC3 zoning and there are restrictions based on that >> just on first floor basically >> commission. How do you wish to proceed? Well, I um
Okay. So, for me, for my vote or opinion, I'm going to lean heavy on you right now. If you were Patrick Austin, would you stand still right now or would you want to to put this on the market?
>> So, there's going to be natural friction that just exists between planning and economic development. and and often times they're on opposite ends of the spectrum. Often times they're in concert. What I would suggest is that we sit down and and really talk about how we take it to the market. >> Okay.
>> My my preference would be that we do fe simple offer it to the public. That's when you'll start getting buyers or potential buyers that are investing hard dollars in soft costs um and and doing their due diligence potentially having this PD zoning in place so they know
exactly what they're buying. Before I asked you that question, I wanted to ask, can we reach out to someone and get a estimated cost that they would recommend we sell those lots for? I know we
typically have a a realtor, whatever. >> We have we have certified commercial appraisers, >> right? Um, should we could we go ahead and just at least get a valuation from that? And maybe they're not worth as much as we thought they were. I don't
know. >> That being a company >> or an enhancement depending on who side triumphs. >> Yeah. >> Whatever. I'm just saying it's you. I don't mean it in a negative light, but they have to factor that in
>> because it'd be restrictive, >> right? I mean, there's restrictions with every zoning, right? >> There, you know, this one's got mandatory first floor retail mandatory, you know, there's you could tailor it specifically that you want stuff on Sanford Avenue versus >> Palmetto Avenue versus, you know, first
floor, second floor, where you want garage, any of that. You could tailor that in a PD or you can leave it open and just say first floor must be commercial. second through fourth can be office or residential, minimum apartment size or you know minimum number of
units, maximum number of units. You could set all of that in the PD. Leave it broad, leave it narrow depending on what the commission wants to see. >> You mentioned that you mentioned something right now that just has the uh mandatory retail on the first floor.
>> How do we ever get a parking garage built downtown? You wrap it with retail. >> Yeah. >> Okay, I'm done. >> But I'm not sure that completely applies for a parking garage anyway.
>> You could make it >> I don't >> know in cities all over the place. First floor is is wrapped with retail or the first floor is completely retail and you just have a ramp to the higher elevations. I mean you don't have to have second, third, fourth in um residential and or restaurant or office.
You could have second through fifth all being garage and the first floor being like occupiable space. >> So that that's going to be more than the fourstory building if if you're going to squeeze that. That that's just not
realistic. I we didn't say we were just going to build a parking garage though. >> What? But you Okay. So, do you think if we used the path that
CMI seems to have used to get the the and I mean they it was a different animal, you know, looking specifically for a hotel. Um, and you they didn't have the lake in in the way,
>> but is there is is is it viable to try to get specific proposals or you think it's better just to go to sale? >> I I think Craig and and Eileen and I uh
can together assess that uh CMI model. My natural inclination, this site and other sites would be let the market determine that. But I I completely understand Eileen's perspective of SC3 zoning which is in place throughout the downtown area may
not comport with her vision of the site. >> Listen, downstairs retail is an encumbrance. Chris mentioned the word encumbrance. It is it's there's product all over this country where there are 16, six, 20 floors above and blank retail downstairs. They wrap it because
zoning requires it, but but they struggle to fill it. the the station house. >> The station house. The classic example. You say there's nothing there. There. I believe there's a cleaners there. >> Well, if I stand corrected.
>> So, does does our code require um all first floor retail or just on first street? >> Yeah, certain streets. I think Sanford Avenue might be one of them. Pomemetto. I have to go back and look at schedule U and see. But there are certain streets that require active retail on the first
floor. But that's also something we could handle in a PD, >> right? Because it's specific to LDR requirements, not comp plan requirements. So if the LDR requires it, you can PD modify it. If the comp plan requires it, then you have to uphold
like you have to uphold it. >> Okay? And on this the green space parcel, it's number of units, not number of stories that's going to be restrictive. Is that correct?
>> Your unit density based on acres, yes, will be more. Well, I don't know. It's It's hard to fit 200 units in even six or eight floor. I mean, you're >> you don't want to go too high. I mean, our fire department has to service it, right? >> And then, um,
>> you know, our tallest buildings down downtown would be the bank at first, which is six, and then Serenity Towers, which I think is >> 12. 12 >> 11 or 12 >> and that's about it. Most of downtown is four stories and under. >> Yeah.
>> And don't forget you clear the biggest hurdles out there. We cleared 13 over all of those parcels. You did that. >> Plus you rerouted all electrical. Plus you vacated out. >> There was also some contamination on the corner of parcel two there that's been
removed. I mean you really a lot. Yeah, we we have cleared a lot of the the outstanding elements, but there are still, you know, some with the soils that have potential alternative means of construction than just slab one on grade or whatever they might have to do and
then the zoning component. But the zoning, like I said, is rather unrestrictive other than that first floor. And then you never know what you're going to get. >> So if you want to be >> I mean basically we when we did SC3 zoning, it was there's nothing in downtown Zford. We want somebody to come
do something, so we'll let them do whatever they want. >> But I mean, if you wanted to make this parcel entertainment specific and so you must have indoor entertainment, you know, whether it be a bowling alley, a skating rink, a, you know, activity center like we've got at Elevate, something like Decision Tactical, any of
those things. You could make your PD say that, but you're limiting who you're going to have proposed. I'm not sure I'd see anybody coming in to put in a bowling alley. Although >> we are. And Jerry's going to freak here, but we do have a group from Canada that Mr. Bonapart and I have been talking
about that wants to do an ice skating rink from uh Thanksgiving to New Year's. >> I was just going to say the mayor wants ice skating. >> Yes. >> But I mean like downtown, bringing people in downtown to, you know, for entertainment purposes is not,
>> you know, it's it's not unheard of. >> All right. So, at the risk of sounding like I'm kicking it down the road again, >> I am not in a rush. I would rather us do it right rather than just do it again.
So, if you all think you can after hearing all this, you can put together an idea and come back. I'm okay with that. Or do you want us to tell you do something right now? >> Well, mayor, in all fairness, you have two members that are not here. Well,
they could have been here. >> Yeah, >> they knew. >> The time and the place. >> Mayor, I I do think it'd be helpful as we have this conversation to Commissioner Austin's point about what what is that worth? We can get a BOV, a broker's opinion of value for no cost
really. Just talk to folks that we really know that know the area and throw a dart at a number just so you all have kind of a working concept and a comfort level that the city taxpayer would be made whole. However you dispose of the property, >> I I really do like that idea, but I'm
just one opinion >> and and it doesn't cost us anything. >> It does not cost us anything. >> We can come back at the first or second meeting in April. You tell us. >> How much time do you all need? I would think second. Second.
>> That's okay. I mean, I still would like this to to develop the gravel lot and extend into the grass lot and come up with something. >> You have provided us some guidance.
>> Well, you know, and I know the the the parking is a a struggle, but if you're going to put a bunch of residences there, well, 50 residences there. Um, you need to put put 50 spaces somewhere and then we lose the spaces we're using.
Well, >> we're talking about investing a lot of money in fixing the marina. Um, and I think we're discussing tonight um, >> the managing of it and the fees, they struggle for parking as well. Uh
and if that courthouse lot is developed uh outside of our control other than the zoning um that's spaces we lose for them. Um I think
I think if we don't get the numbers we like maybe maybe we just keep a couple of lots for parking. Um it's not pretty. It's not. >> No, >> you know, but it >> if we do that, we probably go and make it look a little nicer.
>> Well, we will, but maybe then >> a temporary lot for 10 years now. >> Yeah. And and I know the voters would appreciate it and and I believe the manager of the marina would appreciate it >> and it may just help business. Uh it may help other businesses. I don't know. But
uh >> we can come back. There's no hurry. The lots are being used and I hear what you're saying, commissioner, in terms of recouping the number, the money, but the lots are currently being used. Please come down any weekend. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, we are at almost the 6:00. I would ask Elizabeth Jones though to come um because she is a short presentation in terms of tying in the planning that
you're looking to do at Saturday's special meeting with the city's strategic plan. >> Hello Mayor >> Hello. >> As Mr. Bonapart uh said he had asked me
to briefly uh just meet with you all in regards to your upcoming meeting on Saturday. So essentially um we as you all know have a strategic plan uh that's been put into place uh this year. It's a five-year plan. Um and within those
plans there are five uh focus areas and then nine priorities in total. Um those priorities or goals are outlined there on the screen. They're also available when you look at the strategic plan. Um I did just want to go over the fact um
Mr. Bonapart also provided me the um projects and agenda items that you all are looking to discuss. The great thing is most of the projects you all are looking at uh discussing and evaluating um at your upcoming session do have alignment to our strategic plan which is
what you want to see in goals. Um so on this I outlined there for the sake of brevity I will not go over every single one. um but all the ones that you all are looking to discuss do have a level of strategic alignment um to one or more
of our goals. So that's exactly what we want to see. Now I will say um when it comes to goal setting being aligned to your strategic plan is a key and very important um but also using smart goals
um are also important which I'll go over that acronym in just a moment there. Um, but really using smart goals helps turn those areas of focus into something conceptual to something actionable. Um, it also allows your constituents to
understand what you're accomplishing and it also allows city staff to understand the parameters that you're expecting of us as well in the coming year. Um so as I said those smart goals there are specific measurable depending on what you know you're looking at it's
attainable or achievable um relevant and time bound. Um, so essentially when you're setting goals for uh yourself as a commission and also expectations for us as uh city staff, having those in mind are really helpful because they
don't only specifically outline what you're expecting, but the time in which you're expecting them, how you're measuring um success and even if it's something that truly is attainable or achievable um during that course of
time. One that I always like to throw in is also quality. Um because quality is also something that's important. Um having information relating to objectives and other city goals is also important there. Um so in conclusion,
because I know this is very brief, um as you prepare your for your upcoming session, asking yourself just these questions and that would essentially just be what would successfully achieving or working towards the achievement of this goal look like? And does this keep the city of Sanford
working towards its vision of being a city that delivers exceptional service, safeguards our local natural resources, and drives sustainable growth while ensuring a high quality life for all who live, work, and play here. So that is all from me unless you have any
questions. But essentially, it's just um you know, some helpful points when reviewing goals as a commission just to keep in mind because again, when something does have clear expectations, um something like, you know, the homelessness matter I know is on your
agenda, having expectations of what success looks like can help set realistic expectations for your constituents and as well as city staff to support those needs. >> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you. That's all.
>> Commissioner Wiggins, Mr. Austin, can I can I just have one moment? No. >> Although I don't see Radzack. >> Did he skip out? >> Oh, I'm sorry. You're on my bad side. Um, can I have a moment? Can Can you
just give us a a quick update on the marina? Uh-huh. >> And what I would like is how long you've been working on this. >> Okay. >> Where we're at. >> Okay. >> And I would like you to name all the
entities involved. >> Okay. Um been working on it since I've had this position. As you remember, uh May of 2022, we took over the marina from that long-term lease. So then we hired the management company shortly after that, and we've been working on
it. And if you remember in September 28th of 2022, Hurricane Ian hit and obliterated most of the marina. So, we've been working with FEMA for the past three years now. Um did an assessment uh been working with them. We did get a termination memo from them
finally in uh late summer last year, 2025. We filed for appeal. We're still waiting on a decision from FEMA to that appeal process. That appeal process is due April 16th of 2026, although we've been hearing from our consultants and
our FEMA attorney that they're delayed. So, we expect probably a decision from FEMA in May maybe. Um, so we have an option as a city to go if we don't get the determination appeal decision that we want, we can go to a second appeal.
U, we'll have to decide what the the appeal decision is. Um, as far as work, work continues. were in design um for the dock replacements and the dredging permit um requirements. Right now that is expected to last about a year and a
half to two years to get all the permitting. We have to deal with six different entities to get permitting. >> Well, that's what you're talking to talk about. >> Okay. Um >> I I don't I don't real briefly I I don't think the public understands how complex
some of these projects can be. Um, and it's particularly this one. >> Oh, yeah. >> How many different entities are involved? How many permissions we need >> to to do work on our own marina? >> I I can name some and Chris can chime
in, too. The the one that's kind of oversees the whole thing. >> You said six. That's good. >> Yeah, it's it's a lot. And um our our engineers are working on it. They've done it before, so they're working hard on that. Um we done the environmental assessments which was required of the
permit. We did that recently in October. So, they're continuing with the We had a pre-application conference today that we briefed them on and it was more about dredging um how we could dispose of the material. We have 17,000 square uh square square foot uh
>> per basin. We have 17,000 cubic yards. Got it. In one basin, 16,000 the other basin. We we're trying to we have to put that uh material lake bottom material somewhere. So, we're talking with them on what's permitted, put it out in the lake somewhere or take it off site. So there's some s significant challenges
with marinas and permitting and we're dealing that and it's going to take some time about a year. >> And it and this is the repair. >> Yeah. And this is just >> not to build a brand new repair. >> Yeah. This is just for dredging and and dock replacement. If we were talking about other things then we we'd have to
go through but it isn't much a marina without docks. So our priority is repair repairing the docks. >> I just I you know um I talk about communication a lot. I talk about what we're putting out to the public. Uh I I would like that
put out to the public by our staff and uh and Craig, you did a wonderful brief job there. I appreciate it. Uh but we we're losing the battle in public relations and we should not be. We have a staff, a well- paid staff that that's
supposed to be doing that for us. Okay. But do you think it's going to make any difference? >> If we don't, so mayor, if we don't, do we just not try? >> Do we just quit trying? >> I didn't say that. >> Let let let's just let those lots go to hell. Let's quit trying. We have to keep
trying. Um and and I I know the story. Uh but I shouldn't h I shouldn't be the one putting out the story. We have staff that does that. Um and so I wanted Craig to share that. It's on record for our YouTube watchers out in the TV land as
somebody popular says. Um, you know, I I wanted the discussion. We we we never talk about the marina. We never talk about where we are in the progress of some of these projects. That's what I asked you earlier about today. And we update the website on our
projects. Our project website stuff is a little little behind. So, uh, >> I'm done. Right. Um, speaking of the Marina, um, I've been in touch with Senator Moody's
office and so I need to get to with you. >> Okay. >> Um, this week to make sure I share the right information with them. >> All right. Anytime. Thank you. >> All right. We're journed. >> Yes. Part: 2
more than feeling she. How can I tell you what it means to me? Blood like a lazy river for an eternity. I want to find someone who believes in me.
I'll ever be made my way. Make a wish baby will make it come true. Good things I do for you. My lay down on you. So we could wash
away so that we may start a new. >> Need your love beside me. >> Guide me. >> Keep it close enough to guide me >> from the fears that always follow me. You're the biggest part of me.
>> Forever. >> Got to be on that forever. We going to stay together from now to forever. You're the biggest part of me. You're the life that
breathes in me. You're the biggest part of me. You changed my life. You made it right. I'll be yourself to you
for the rest of my life. Yeah. >> Okay. We will go ahead and call to order the meeting of the Sanford City Commission for Monday, March 23rd, 2026 to order. Our first order of business is the Legislative Prayer by Pastor Cornelius Davis of Choice, Change, and
Commitment Worship Center, followed by the pledge. Please stand if you're able. Good evening. >> If you would please join me in a moment of prayer. Heavenly Father, we come together
with a heart of gratitude. Father, we ask you to move in this place, Father. Father, we thank you for the men and women gathered here who carry the work
of leadership, policy, community. We pray that you would give them wisdom to govern well to courage to make the right decision and the compassion for the people whose lives
are impacted by the decisions made today. Father, let this be a meeting marked by respect, guided by truth and grounded in a shared desire to strength to strengthening this
city. Lord, bless Sanford. Bless it with peace, progress, and unity. And let what is done here today serve the greater good of our city. Father, we ask these
things in your son name, Jesus Christ. And let everybody say, >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Pledge algiance >> to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you for that. We have a a couple of proclamations this evening. I want to start with the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority. if they could please come forward. >> That's good. Yeah,
>> it's the most style we've had in here in a while. >> Hey, Clatty. >> There's one in the back there. Whereas Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated is an international service organization that was founded on the campus of Howard University in
Washington DC in 1908 and is the oldest Greek letter organization established by African-American college educated women. And whereas Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority is comprised of nearly 300,000 members and approximately 1,8 graduate and undergraduate chapters in the United
States, the US Virgin Islands, the Bahamas, Bermuda, Canada, Dubai, Germany, Japan, Liberia, and South Korea. Led by international president Danette Anthony Reid, Alpha Kappa Alpha
is often held as America's premier Greek letter organization for African-American women. And whereas the local chapter of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, Kappa Sigma Omega was chartered April 10, 1976 in Sanford, Florida, and now
includes 26 members and three charter members, which are Barbara Chambers, Sandra Petty, and Geraldine Wright, serving throughout Seminal County. It continues to uphold the mission of the sority, fortifying families within our communities by addressing child hunger,
supporting local charities through various education initiatives, clothing drives, prioritizing activities that promote the adoption of more sustainable and responsible practices, and promoting fairness and equity. And whereas Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated was
founded on a mission comprised of five basic tenants that have remained unchanged since the sorority's inception more than a century ago. To cultivate and encourage high scholastic and ethical standards. To promote unity and friendship among college women. To study
and help alleviate problems concerning girls and women to improve their social stature. To maintain a progressive interest in college life. and to be of service to all mankind. And whereas the notable Kappa Sigma Omega chapter celebrates its founders
day anniversary on April 10 of each year. Whereas in honor of that anniversary, we are immensely proud to recognize the Kappa Sigma Omega chapter and its members existence of 50 years in the community for the numerous ways they lend their talents to enrich and enhance
Sanford and Semino County, Florida. So now therefore, I art Woodruff by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim April 10, 2026 as Kappa Sigma Omega Chapter Day. turn the page.
And I encourage all citizens to extend best wishes, wishes, and gratitude to members within the organization for their continuous contributions and demonstrations of persistent years of service within our community. Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um, so, uh, my name is Dr. Bana Jenkins and I'm the president of Alphacappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, Kappa Sigma Omega chapter. We would like to thank uh Mayor Woodruff and the city commission for this proclamation. Um serving Sanford for 50 years has been
our honor and privilege and we hope to continue to do so for 50 more years. So, thank you very much. Commissioner Wiggins is that pink tie for them. Just a coincidence. >> Thank you so much.
Thank you. Bene. Next we have water conservation month. Mr. Johnson going to come down to accept that one. Whereas water is a basic and essential need of every living creature. And whereas the state of Florida, the water
management districts, and the city of Sanford are working together to increase awareness about the importance of water conservation. And whereas the city of Sanford and the state of Florida have designated April, typically a dry month when water demands are most acute, as Florida water conservation month, to
educate citizens about how they can help save Florida's precious water resources. And whereas the city of Sanford has always encouraged and supported water conservation through various educational programs and special events. And whereas every business, industry, school, and citizen can make a difference when it
comes to conserving water. And whereas every business, industry, school, and citizen can help by saving water and thus promote a healthy economy and community. And whereas outdoor irrigation comprises a large portion of water use, the city of Sanford encourage citizens and businesses to focus on
improving outdoor irrigation efficiency. Now therefore, IR Woodruff, by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim the month of April as water conservation month in the city of Sanford, and call upon all residents and businesses to help protect our precious water resources by
practicing water saving measures and increasing awareness of the importance of conservation. In recognition of the 28th year of Water Conservation Month, this year's focus will be on ensuring that outdoor irrigation systems operate efficiently by using properly functioning rain shut off devices. By
making sure these devices are installed, connected, and working as intended, our community can prevent unnecessary watering, reduce waste, and make better use of the rainfall we receive. It's quite an effective image up there. Let's prevent that.
Last we have National Community Development Week. Whereas the community development block grant program was oper has operated since 1974 providing local governments with the resources required to primarily meet the needs of low and moderate
income persons. And whereas the community development block grant program provides annual funding and flexibility to local communities to provide decent, safe, and affordable housing, a suitable living environment, and economic opportunities to low and
moderate income people. Whereas the community development block grant program has allocated a total of $437,753 in funding for the Sanford community for fiscal year 2026. And whereas the city of Sanford, Florida has effectively administered and customized its
community development block grant program to implement various programs and projects in the areas of affordable housing, minor home repairs, economic development, health services, homelessness that has contributed to the improvement of the physical, economic, and social conditions in our city.
Whereas the week of April 6 to 10, 2026 has been reserved for recognition and appreciation of community development block grant program. Now therefore, IR Woodruff, by the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim the week of April 6 to 10, 2026 as National
Community Development Week in the city of Sanford and urge all citizens to join us in recognizing community development programs and the important role that they play in our community. >> Hi everyone, my name is Tiar Hardway. I'm the CDBG manager for the city of
Sanford and on behalf of Community Development Week, we will be hosting a Goldsboro Trail beautifification day on Saturday, April 11th from 9 to 12:00 p.m. So, we invite all to attend to help beautify the Goldsboro Trail. Thank you.
See you there. >> No business spotlight. >> Did I miss one? Yeah. And then we have a business spotlight. >> Sorry, I sort of jumped over in the agenda. >> Not madness. All right, mayor and commissioners. Uh,
this one was a very interesting one. My conversation with this young lady that I'm about to introduce started with, I've been stalking you. And I said, oh boy. So, I will tell you, I was on a site visit out in the mall area, decided, hey, I haven't been to Steak and Shake in a while. It's been in the
media. There's been quite a few changes out there. Went into Steak and Shake, watched a beautiful business being operated. Uh, Steak and Shake. And I'll let uh this uh young lady uh tell you a little bit about that, but Steak and Shake went through a corporate uh change
a few years ago and they leaned on uh franchise owners to take over a number of their locations. Uh this one in particular is doing a phenomenal job and I got to meet some of her employees which was a true pleasure. um um she's
not going to be able to discuss certain numbers, but I can assure you that this lady is running a fantastic business in very tough conditions. So, I asked her at the end of my lunch, I said, "Would you mind being the uh business spotlight?" She said, "Absolutely." And then she went dark on me. She said she almost chickened out, but she is here.
And with that, I would like to introduce the franchise owner operator of the Steak and Shake here in Sanford, Miss Melissa Melissa Pascuzo. >> Hello. >> Hello. Hi, my name is Melissa Pescuzo and I am the franchise owner of Steak and Shake
at Seminal Town Center Mall. I've been with Steak and Shake 9 years and became a franchise owner in 2022. It has been a challenging journey as the mall has declined with closures like the mall, Red Lobster, Hooters, Jo-Ann's,
you don't just lose business, you lose customers, employees, and overall traffic. We felt that impact every day. I'm here on today on behalf of Brady Lassard to share the excitement around the revitalization of this area.
A year ago, I watched Brady taking interviews with the local news out there on Dillards and I'm like, I should take that guy a milkshake or maybe a burger. I need to know what's going on. Glad I didn't because he said he would have put me on the news. I'm not a speaker,
but I guess um I've been paying very close attention ever since. Inside my restaurant, the energy is real. My regulars are constantly asking for updates. Visitors from out of town are talking about it. Everyone is so excited
about Costco coming in and what the means for the future of this community. Despite the challenges, Steak and Shake has seen has seen success. As the Samford community continues to grow, we notice a clear increase in customers during local
events. I have made it a priority to stay connected to the community. I spons sponsor youth sports league senior games. I've donated 250 burgers for youth baseball opening day. I provide wa 500 water bottles twice a year for the
leagues and participants. Over a year ago, Steak and Shake transitioned to Maha standards. We introduced beef tallow and eliminated seed oils from our cooking process. While we re initially received some push
back because our fries still contain the seed oils, Steak and Shake listened and made the changes. Today our fries are completely free of seed oils and a week ago we launched our beef tallow tots. The initi this initiative has been
featured on Fox News multiple times. Robert Kennedy highlighted during an interview inside a steak and shake location. These changes have made a real difference especially for all our stores. What makes me most proud though is my
team. I hired a grill cook in December. When he clocked in, he said it was his birthday. I told him that's incredible. 76 years old >> and he's going to be my girl cook from
10:00 to 5:00 Monday through Friday. He said, "This is the best birthday present ever." So, a couple weeks later, I said, "Why after being retired for so long, are you working for me?" He goes, "Ma'am, I'm building a school in Africa, and I'm
donating every dollar I make here towards that. They're putting the roof on now." I also employ many students from Seinal High. I hire them at 16 and work around their schedules, whether lacrosse,
cheerleading, clubs, football. Many of them go on to college but work seasonally for me after. They'll stay with me till they're 20, 22. Sometimes I hire their siblings. One of my manager who's been a
missionary has been with me 5 years. Never missed a day at work. She's now getting ready to retire and go stay by her grandchildren. Boy, I'm going to miss her. Every day within my four walls, I hear the excitement about what's coming.
People ask how we managed to managed to survive. The truth is it hasn't been easy. But the changes we made, the growth in Sanford, the support of the community, and this revitalization of the Sanford Mall, Costco is huge. And
when Costco arrives and the redevelopment is complete, the sky is truly the limit. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, and I will tell you, hold on, Melissa, I heard her say to her employees, "If we ever serve fries that
aren't hot, I cannot pay you." And I will say, "My fries were piping hot that day." So, >> fries that are cold, please call. >> Yeah, but I will tell you, it's an interesting story. This is one of the few steak and shakes in Florida that does not have an interstate uh billboard. Melissa shared that with me because of a road realignment. They lost
their billboard. street signs. I have nothing. Put a yard sign in city. >> So, I do appreciate the opportunity to introduce Melissa tonight. So, thank you so much. >> Thanks, Brad. >> Melissa, I'd like you to know that because of my grandsons, I've visited
your store many a times. >> Thank you. Do you always get hot fries? >> Yes, I do. Okay, that brings us to the minutes of the March 9, 2026 regular meeting and work session. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion?
>> All in favor? >> Mayor, before you move on with consent, I do have one change and that's on item I. The amount is incorrect. It should be 196,
168, and 50 cents. >> All right. Thank you. >> And when you get to the public hearings, we notice that some were reading first reading. Again, all public hearings except the last two items are second readings for tonight. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. to facilitate public input. If you plan to speak on an item, we would appreciate it if you would fill out one of these yellow forms and have it brought forward. Um, the public will be given an opportunity to speak on any item before the city commission uh during the regular meeting. Before a consent agenda, I'll
ask if anyone wants to speak on any of those items. During public hearings, um before a motion is made, there will be an opportunity for um anybody in the public to speak. During regular items, if comments are not called for and you've not submitted the yellow form, if you would raise your hand, uh, you'll be
recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item except except a person recognizing representing an organization and presenting its views during a quai judicial hearing uh, which will be allowed 5 minutes. Citizen participation
is after um the public hearings and individuals may address the commission on any topic not on the agenda. There's a 5m minute time limit for citizen comments. So, does anyone in the audience have uh like address to address anything on the
consent agenda? >> Okay, seeing no I'll bring that to commission uh for action. >> Um Mr. Mayor, I just like for the record on item D um for it to be noted that I did reach out to residents at the gateway um regarding um this event because there is some overnight activity
and no one seemed to object to it. With that, I move to approve um consent item 6 >> A through >> A through I >> with the change on I a second. All in favor? >> I especially good on item G. That makes
me happy. Uh, pass unanimously brings us to public hearing. Second reading of ordinance 4845. Miss Green, >> an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, annexing by voluntary petition certain real properties which is
generally addressed as 3850 Sykes Avenue located contiguous to the city of Sanford in accordance with the VA voluntary annexation provisions of section 171.044 044 Florida statute redefining the boundaries of the city of
Sanford to include said property amending the boundaries of the city in accordance with the provisions of section 166.031 031 Florida statutes providing for findings providing for conditions directing the city clerk to record the ordinance with the clerk of
the circuit court with the chief administrative office of semino county and with the department of state providing for legal description and a map providing for the incorporation of that exhibit repealing all ordinance ordinances in conflict herewith providing for severability providing for
non-codification and the taking of administrative actions and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor and members of city commission, the city staff have reviewed the request for annexation and found the request to meet the criteria set forth in the Florida statutes. The p the the
boundaries are contiguous to the city and are reasonably complex and therefore it is the city rest staff recommendation city commission adopt ordinance number 4845 to annex the location of 80 or 3850 Snipes Avenue as legally described into
the city of Sanford. >> This is a public hearing. Hearing no wish to speak to this item. Seeing no I'll close the public hear and bring the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Second
reading of ordinance 4846. Ordinance 4846, an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, amending the city of Sford comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment of the future land use element of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan relative to
certain real property from suburban estates to low density residential single family approximately 19.76 acres in size located at 3850 Cypes Avenue within the city limits. said property being more specifically described in
this ordinance. Providing for legislative findings and intent, providing for assignment of the land use designation for property, providing for the adoption of maps by reference, providing for severability, providing for ratification of prior acts of the city, providing for conflicts, providing
for codification and directions to the code codifier, and providing for the implementation of the statutory expedited state review process and an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on February the 5th of 2026, the city's
planning and zoning commission decided to recommend that the city commission approved the request and therefore the staff request that city commission approve ordinance number 4846. >> This is a public hearing. You wish to speak to this? Yes, sir.
>> Random Morris, 7150 South Atlantic Avenue, New Smyrna Beach. Uh, mayor and commissioners, I'm the owner's representative here today. Um, we did have a clarification as to this being the second reading. I just noticed that the slide still says first reading.
Just we might want to alert the audience that this is the second and final reading. Um, and for we do not have a presentation this evening. Obviously, we did our presentation to you at the last hearing. So for this hearing and the next hearing which would also be second reading uh we would just want to thank
staff and we want to uh in particularly Eileen and and Miss Green for moving this process along. We appreciate their help so much and um we uh ask you to uh please support this uh these two items
uh coming up to you right now um with the full staff recommendations that are pretty critical to moving the process along. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Any reserve any time if there's anybody from the audience that may have a question or clarification?
>> All right. Thank you. Did you have anything? Okay. Is there sorry is there anyone else in the who wishes to speak to this item which is second reading. See no one want to close the public hearing commission for action. Second motion second. Any further discussion?
All in favor? I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Before we get to the next item, let me um What do you need? at 484. Okay. Okay. While she's bringing that down, um I will go ahead and start on this. In
order to conserve time, I'll read the statement once tonight when an agenda item involves a quai official process, which this item does and which item 7B3. Um, it's also quite judicial.
Um, commissioners must disclose all exparte communications including the name of the communicator and the time, place, and substance of the communication. Written communications, commissioner's investigations, site visits, and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made part of the record. Persons who have opinions
contrary to those expressed in an exparte communication may refute or respond to the communication at the hearing when they make their presentation. In a quasi judicial process, parties to the proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have legal standing to appeal
the decision can request to be recognized as a party. Parties are subject to cross-examination and must give their testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party to the proceedings in order to be recognized and to provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not
subject to cross-examination and are not sworn as evidentiary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide facts relevant to the application are considered in the decision. Qualifications of the city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided the city
commission must be competent. material and substantial under Florida law. A guide to quasi judicial hearing or proceedings has been published on the city's websites and copies are available at the back of the chambers. So if anyone is um that will be testifying as
a party to either this item or to ordinance 4850 um which is uh B3, if you would please stand. Are are you asking be sworn as a a um party?
>> Okay. All right. So, we can go through and state our names, please. >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you God. Okay, thank you. Y'all be seated. And so
that brings us to um second reading of 4847. >> You have it yet? >> My I'll have to get it off the computer upstairs. I can bring it in. >> You want me just to read what it's about?
Is it the same from last time? >> Okay. Just the first day. Ordinance 4847, an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the plan development resoning for real property to amend
Jesus Image PD located at project address 2867 East Lake Mary Boulevard by adding real property totaling approximately 19.76 acres in size, which is generally addressed as 3850
Cypes Avenue within city limits. Providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference, repealing all conflicting ordinances, providing for separability, providing for non-codification,
and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on March 9th of 2026, you unanimously approved ordinance number 4847 on first reading to amend the Jesus Image PD by incorporating and reszoning
19.76 acres at 3850 Cypes Avenue. It is the staff's recommendation that you approve ordinance number 4847. >> Okay, this is qu judicial. Does anyone have anything to declare? >> Nothing further to disclose. This is a public hearing. Anyone from the audience
wish to speak to this item? >> See no one. I'll close the public hearing. Brand the commission for action. >> Second. >> Second. >> Motion. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Any oppose? Pass unanimously. Brings us to second reading of 40 ordinance 4848.
An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, annexing by voluntary petition certain real properties which is generally addressed as 3151 East Lake Mary Boulevard located contiguous to the city of Sford together with associated
right of way in accordance with the voluntary annexation provisions of section 171.044 Florida statutes redefining the boundaries of the city of Sanford to include said property. amending the boundaries of the city in accordance
with the provisions of section 166.031 Florida statutes providing for findings providing for conditions directing the city clerk to record the ordinance with the clerk of the circuit court with the chief administrative office of semino county and with the department of state
providing for legal description and a map and providing for the incorporation of that exhibit. repealing all ordinances in conflict herewith, providing for severability, providing for non-codification, and the taking of administrative actions, and providing
for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff have reviewed the request for annexation and found the request to meet the criteria set forth in the Florida statutes. It is therefore the city staff recommendation that city commission adopt ordinance number 40
848 and annex 3.8. 10 acres into the city of Sanford as legally described as 3151 East Lake Mary Boulevard. Okay, this is a public hearing. Anyone wish to speak to the annexation?
Seeing no one, I'll close public hearing and bring the commission for action. Move to approve. >> Second. >> A motion second. Any further discussion? I think you had a question, mayor, last time about whether or not we should annex the property from the county.
Was that do I remember that correctly? >> I did think I raised that issue. But >> do you remember the answer to the question? >> I think my question was could they develop if they did not annex >> and the answer was we would still have to provide utilities.
>> I just wanted to make sure I remembered that correctly. >> Great. Any other discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Passionously. >> Okay. Ordinance 4849. An ordinance of the city of Sanford,
Florida, amending the city of Sanford comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment of the future land use element of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan relative to certain real property of approximately 3
acres from highintensity planned development airport to airport industry and commerce and the assigned tax identification numbers which is generally addressed as 3151 East Lake Mary Boulevard within city limits. Said property being more
specifically described in this ordinance. Providing for legislative findings and intent. Providing for assignment of the land use designation for the property. Providing for the adoption of maps by reference. Providing for severability. Providing for ratification of prior acts of the city.
Providing for conflicts. Providing for codification and directions to the code codifier. and providing for the implementation of the statutory expedited state review process and an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, at their regular meeting on February
5th, the city's planning and zoning commission voted to recommend that the city commission approve the request to amend the future land use from highintensity plan development to airport industry and commerce. It is therefore staff's recommendation city commission adopt ordinance number 4849.
>> And this is a public hearing. Anyone wish to speak to the change in the future land use? >> Yes sir. >> Just very briefly because I'll be here on the next item. Uh by way of reintroduction, Logan Opsall 215 North Yola Drive of course following
annexation per the terms of the JPA and the comprehensive plan. Uh the land use designation needs to be assigned and that is the one being requested and supported by staff. Step up on the next item. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Right. Does anyone else in the west wish to speak to this item? Seeing no, I'll
close the public hearing, bring the commission for action. Does somebody like to make a motion on the future land use? Move to approve. >> Second motion and second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
>> I. Any opposed? Passionely. brings us to um ordinance 4850, >> an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the plan development reszoning of approximately 3 acres from A1 agriculture to PD Plan
Development and assign tax parcel number 0320315 AY 400560, which is generally addressed as 3151 East Lake Mary Boulevard within city limits providing for the taking of implementing admin administrative
actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference, repealing all conflicting ordinances, providing for separability, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, as their regularly scheduled meeting on
February the 5th of 2026, the city's planning and zoning commission voted 6 to1 to recommend the city commission adopt an ordinance reszoning 3.0 0 acres at project address of 3151 East Lake Mary Boulevard. The city commission
approved the ordinance on first reading at March 9th and it is now before you for second reading. >> Hey, this is quite additional. Does anyone have anything to declare? >> Okay. I do I did make a site visit um to the property um and I met with Nathan and
Danica Christensen um and they showed me um the property line behind their house. Also present was Judith Centeaba Olansi Carlos Tore Amanda Martin and Michael Tul. Um and other than showing
me the property the conversation generally revolved around the um concerns they have already shared. So present. >> Okay. As second reading, we have gone over some of this in the first reading, but for the benefit of those who either
weren't here for the public hearing on the first read or just as a refresher, I put together a slightly shorter, although just as comprehensive PowerPoint. So 3151 East Lake Mayor Boulevard, the applicant is seeking to reszone 3 acres from the county's agriculture to the city's plan
development for the purpose of the service station that's in the master plan. This is the site vicinity as well as the zoning on the opposite sides of the project. Some of them are county and
some of them are city. So the 3acre site at Skyway Drive and East Lake Mary Boulevard, the owner is seeking to annex for city services and future commercial use. It keeps the county future laneous designation until the city's designation, the corresponding one is
adopted. So it's going to go from the county HIP AP future laneous to the city's AIC. The statute requires a resone to a city plan to be consistent with the future lenuse map. The future land use map mixeduse component of AIC
supports a plan development district. The PD provides a sightsp specific plan. The reasoning from county A1 to PD requires this public hearing and approval requires adoption of the annexation and the future land use amendment which were just heard and adopted prior to this hearing.
>> So the master plan before you shows the site where they're looking to establish the two parcels, the one in question for the service station and then a track two which It says the Lake Mary crossings has the two commercial tracks internal circulation and supporting
infrastructure. The PD sets sight specific standards allows the GC2 uses but excludes outdoor storage, truck vehicular rental and vehicle sale. Track one is planned for a convenience store with gas pumps and track two connective out parcel but no end user has been
established at this time. Inside your packet, you have the master plans. These are way too small to read, but it lays out the specifics for development standards as well as the table of setbacks, buffers, and related
information. So, when they first came before you for first reading, this was the master plan. There were some questions about the retention pond, some questions about the location of the dumpster separation between the southern property line and the rear of the
houses, which you can see on the aerial. So, an update during first reading, it was identified that no variances were requested. However, the dumpster enclosure was at 25 ft from the property line. The setback is 50 foot as required by schedule J. And since the first
reading, the applicant has revised the plan as it relates to the dumpster location, which now, as you can see, is on the west, which allows for the truck to circulate through, pick up the dumpster, and then leave out through the right in right out on the left.
The resident concerns at the planning and zoning commission, a public hearing was held on February 4th. significant participation from nearby residents and written comments received from Parkview Place, Galileo school parents and staff as well as other citizens. The city commission then held the first reading
of the ordinance on March 9th, 2026 with similar participation from the public and concerns generally fell into several major categories summarized in the following slides. There were concerns with health and air quality. There were concerns with environmental risks and there were
concerns with proximity to the school and the children. Each of those broken down by bullet underneath as well as traffic and school zone safety, crime and public safety, noise, lighting and 24-hour activity,
property values and neighborhood character, lack of need and oversaturation of the surface stations, and then the comprehensive plan and compatibility. So the comprehensive plan assessment the site lies within the airport industry and commerce. It guides development
around the airport surrounding properties per objective future lane use 1.9 and related policies support airport related industrial commercial service and mixeduse development. The proposed amendment and PD resoning must demonstrate consistency with these
policies. So comprehensive plan assessment objective future lan use 1.9 and policy FLU 1.9.1 are AIC intent and function they encourage expansion of the airport compatibility industrial and mixeduse development applies to airport property
and adjacent lands requires consistency with the ALP also known as the airport layout plan and allowed land use mix includes industrial business parks office complexes commercial and retail uses services hotels medium and high intensity high density multif family
where appropriate and the relevance to this project fueling and convenience retail are supported uses commercial within the AICPD allowing um customized standards for compatibility between uses.
So the city staff did do a comprehensive overview of the comprehensive plan and found that various future laneous elements specific to this project were supportive of the request. Everything from the commercial corridors, regional activity centers and
economic development elements and then intergovernmental coordination and urban design and then East Lake Mary Boulevard small area study. They established through a coordinated study with OSIA and Semino County located within the East Lake Mary Boulevard
mixeduse District intended to provide goods and services that support the Orlando Sanford International Airport, Bumba Sports Complex, nearby residential neighborhoods. The study identified preferred uses within the district included community and general commercial tour supportive uses, open
space parks and preserve areas and the proposed fee resoning is consistent with the study's intent allowing airport supportive commercial uses that align with the district's development framework. So staff comprehensive conclusion is the AIC district and East Lake Mary
Boulevard corridor designed for airport supportive regional and corridor oriented community uses commercial uses. The policies across multiple plan elements support the commercial services supporting airport operations employment centers and traveler needs. The proposed
convenience store and fueling station fits the AIC designation and the corridor oriented community commercial intent. The PD standards address compatibility, buffers, lighting, site design to create appropriate transitions to nearby residential areas. And based
on a policy consistency and compatibility through site design, staff recommends approval of the PD resoning. The recommendation on February 5th, the planning and zoning commission voted 6 to one to recommend that the city commission adopt this ordinance. The
chair Victoria Wilson dissented stating the proposed reszone is not consistent with the goals, objectives, and policies of the comprehensive plan as it relates to sustainability, faith cities, and overall health, safety, and welfare, although specific elements were not cited. And then on March 9th, 2006, city
commission approved first reading, but directed the applicant to provide additional information and updated plans prior to the second reading that addressed the following. clarification on Skyway Drive, a detailed analysis of proposed wall and retention of existing
vegetation, and then update and evaluate the feasibility and impact of a footprint shift of 5T to the north. So, as noted before, this was revised and forwarded to staff on March 16th, and these are the applicants
modifications since first reading. So the recommendation remains the same from staff um with the standards and conditions within your staff report. And then on the first reading there were some
some questions regarding denial of the application. So I've added a slide to just discuss Florida law and basis for denial. State law requires resonings to be consistent with the comprehensive plan. A resoning must be denied if it does not further or is not compatible
with the comprehensive plan. And the city may deny a PD if impacts to compatibility, neighborhood character, safety, or the environment are not proven to be fully mitigated. And if the PD conflicts with site plan policies, Florida law obligates the city to deny
the request. So, any questions? >> Yes. >> So, can you further explain um u when you were talking about the variances and deviations? when we're talking about the placement of the dumpster. >> Yeah. >> And you're saying that where the
dumpster is located, the required setback is 50 ft and then it would have to be reduced to 25 ft. >> No, explain it to me. >> It's the other way around. Now, on their first reading, they submitted a site plan that had a 25 ft setback. >> It was required to be 20. It was
required to be 50 ft. So, staff called it out because it didn't meet, although it was on the master plan, so it was part of their proposal. So their proposal was to have it there, but after first reading with this commission, they found a way to relocate it within the site plan so that now it does meet the
minimum 50 foot step back. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other questions for staff? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Ready to present. Good evening again, Logan Opsall 215 North Yola Drive. On behalf of the
applicant, um have a presentation that I have uh reworked from our first reading to talk about some of the items that that staff identified that the direction the commission gave us as it relates to alternatives to the site plan. um having
discussions about the access with the county. Um and then we'll we'll look at the wall, too. So, we have representatives from the project team to walk through some of those slides. Um some of which you've seen, so I'll be brief. Um, but I want to make sure that
we're not just answering and responding to the direction we heard from the commission, but also some of the specific items that we heard from residents um as it relates to uh their standpoint on the project and mitigating uh as you saw in the staff report some
of the uh impacts and uh suspected impacts. So uh you've heard about my client Kraton uh Development Fullervice engineering design acquis excuse me they have extensive background in acquisition engineering design. They're full service construction management comp company
operating in multiple states across the country. The property of course we well know uh at the intersection of East Lake Mary Boulevard and Skyway and within the S Sanford Seminal County joint planning agreement which I'm going to touch on in
some detail because it's helpful for the uh the decision before you tonight. Our requests are three-fold annexation, which we took care of, the future land use amendment in line with that JPA, the AIC, which is consistent with that JPA,
and a resoning to the PD, which contains the specific conditions uh that we were able to build upon with your staff uh following planning commission and including uh tonight. So, I want to take the time to talk about the joint planning agreement. Uh
this is the agreement between the county and the city for uh coordinated planning efforts. Um this ALS this area also lies within the uh the small area study which I'll touch on uh independently but I want to uh
dive in a little bit to the JAPA and some of the specifics particularly in light of some of the questions and uh matters raised at first hearing. Um, so the next couple slides I'm just taking from the JPA. So this is this is copied and paste and it's it's at the
forefront of what this agreement attempts to accomplish. And it is the parties, that's the county and of course the city. uh recognizing that that joint planning uh for the growth and development of both the county and the city uh is in the common interest of
both and is consistent with state law serves the public interests and importantly uh designed a desire to protect the health, safety and welfare of the citizens through that jo through those joint planning efforts. Moving forward in the joint planning
agreement, we we talked about this at first reading too, the future land use equivalency because it's important for uh the the planning considerations particularly as it relates to the PD. Um we we have the equivalency chart which I have on my next slide and and that is
that highintensity airport use in the county and the AIC in the city. Now, per this agreement between the jurisdictions, these these consistent uh land use designations are are
equivalent because they're similar in intensities and densities. And I think that's important for purposes of tonight's discussion because these are areas in the city that have been identified in the comprehensive planned land use element for these types of
uses. And uh also through the efforts of the joint planning agreement and this and this and the agreement between the county and the city are areas that have those intensities and densities that both the county and the city desire to
see in those particular areas. And this is that equivalency chart. um two snippets I took directly from the JPA which outlines the exhibit B which is this equivalency chart and that these designations have been deemed equivalent
again due to their similar intensities and densities of allowable development. Moving forward with some of the land use information and this is just outlining those. This is the equivalency in action. Um, which takes us to the maps, which I think you've seen this in first
reading, you've seen it in some of the staff reports. Just to con contextualize uh our property uh on Skyway and Lake Mary Boulevard shown in the purple um under the county and in the similar uh land use designations of the surrounding uses in including uh the residential
community to our south and areas to our east and west. And of course the the institutional uses like the Bumba Sports Complex and the airports to the north. >> And then in this so our property shown there and I and
I'm happy to answer this on on No problem on on our uh response as well. But you can see the the residential community to the south of our property. It's that rectangular to the north. They are situated in the county before this annexation tonight in the same land use
designation which is which is going to be important for our discussion following annexation again per per the terms of the joint planning agreement uh and because of that equivalency matrix that's why we were designated the AIC
and so this is the city of Sanford's future land use map showing uh the AIC which is that darker purple and so you see a a compatible consistent use in in compliance with the JPA in your comprehensive plan. Again, those are
items we just took care of and the zoning map in the county. Uh the park view is obviously a PD and shown in blue. We are requesting a PD but in the city uh so this is the county zoning map and in the cities uh we have those
institutional uses across the street and some more planned development in the area. So again that consistent compatible implementation of the planning through the zoning and that's the PD request before you. Um I want to bring up a representative
of our project team because and I appreciate the courtesy copy uh delivered to me tonight on some of the studies. You know a lot of effort and and was put into the correspondence and some of the the research and studies that were included. Um, and so
it was it was not just important. I think it was appropriate for us to also take the time to go through those studies and and those concerns. Um, and so here's some of the list of the of the of the sources and having gone through those. And then uh this will take us into as well some of the important
topics raised by commissioners in the first reading relating to the safety of the infrastructure and the implementation and buildout of these types of uses. Uh so we'll roll into the next slide to cover that and I'll continue with um my presentation.
>> Thank you. David Martinez 1228 Winter Garden Vinland Road. Um just just a brief introduction of um who I am. I have been an environmental consultant sciences since 1999. I have a degree in um geology, bachelor's in science and geology from
University of California at Davis. And um most of my career has been spent in around um gas stations working for various consultants. I'm here representing the um applicant tonight.
My team was um asked to evaluate the environmental concerns raised by the residents of Park View Place. And I do want to commend them on these um references that they brought forth. Um from a scientific standpoint, these do
appear to be um peer-reviewed scientific studies in scientific journals accessed um from the NIH government database. My team reviewed these references and we found no reason to doubt the
methods um that were used in these studies nor to doubt the validity of the conclusions of these studies. Also, it is known um already by the United States Environmental Protection Agency and by the state of Florida that
a lot of the chemical compounds that are referenced here, including benzines, um do have adverse health effects to humans. So, these these studies are are valid. Um, but upon closer examination of these
studies, it became apparent that they may not um necessarily be applicable to um what's being on the on the docket tonight. Generally, they fall into two groups.
Um, importantly in yellow we have studies that were conducted in Europe either partially before 2009 or entirely before 2009. And the reason why this is this is significant is because it wasn't until
2009 that the European Union issued a directive that all of the gas stations within its borders would have vapor recovery systems mandatory. So
the studies that you see in yellow are being done in the context in which vapors are allowed to freely float off of the gas station property. Now for context, vapor recovery systems
have been required by the US EPA since at least the mid 1990s. In 1998, a more rigorous uh two-stage vapor recovery system was required. And in the early 2000s,
um all new vehicles and light duty trucks and vans in the United States were required to have their own onboard recovery system. So although the the results of the studies here are internally valid, they don't necessarily
apply to the United States in 2026. The citations in green um were put there to reinforce the health risks that are known with these chemicals, but like I said, these are already acknowledged by the United States and by the state of
Florida. Um there were studies conducted in the United States. Uh those are in blues sometimes, but um they're not related to gas stations. They're spills or they site unspecified benzene sources, which could be a refinery. They
can be bulk storage plant, that sort of thing. And finally in gray, um these citations were not primary sources. They weren't studies within themselves. Um there was a quote that um kind of gave me pause uh in one of the
citations. Um this is a quote from a memo from a toxicologist in California in 2018 who um stated that the World Health Organization has determined that there is no safe value or safe level of exposure. Um um my team took a look at
this report and that phrase actually does not appear in that report. Um, the World Health Organization's actual words are there in italics and essentially the World Health Organization recognizes levels of risks.
Importantly, from a scientific standpoint, scientific communication standpoint, it might be a little misleading to say there is no safe level when that's not how this is thought of. And the analysis or analogy rather is like that of the UV radiation
ultraviolet radiation in sunlight. There is no accept there's no safe threshold of UV sunlight. You step into the sun there's always a risk no matter how small uh from UV sunlight. Now, I'm not
saying that that benzene and ultraviolet radiation are equivalent in their risk, but the point is is that that is that is not how the World Health Organization um uh assesses its risk. It's not about
there being a safe threshold. So uh I mentioned vapor recovery systems a moment ago and this is what the vapor recovery system is. So I know that the concern among the residents and again I do commend them for their rigorous um
research into these these topics that the vapor recovery system allows or prevents the vapors from leaving the equipment. It's 95 to 98% effective depending on what piece of equipment we're talking about. And as I said,
since 2006, even our vehicles have onboard refueling vapor recovery. I think it's important that we understand whenever we look at a gas station and we see the refilling truck going in there that it's not just putting fuel into the tank, it's also
allowing the vapors as the tank fills up, it's pushing the vapors out into the truck. the vapors are not escaping into the environment. >> Also, it's a it's a misconception that I've seen while I've been working out in gas stations that people think these vent
pipes are there to to actually just vent the vapors during refueling. That is not the case. Those vent pipes are a stop gap measure in case for some reason a rare event that the vapor recovery system within the truck was not functioning then the vapors would escape
through the vent pipe. But that that is not a routine um that is not a routine practice. And uh finally, my team and I just wanted to address some of the broader environmental u concerns. These systems, whether it's the vapor
recovery or or the storage of the product, these are modern, sophisticated, and very highly regulated systems. So all of the petroleum components and systems and protocols are regulated by um Florida administrative
code chapter 627 uh761 and that includes among many other things uh uh monitoring for leak detention uh detection 24/7 uh mandatory um monthly inspections of the equipment. Um this is going to be
sometimes more than monthly depending on the the specific type of equipment. Um, Florida requires double wall for its underground storage tanks. Um, 7-Eleven actually requires um double wall for all of its um components. So, it's even more
rigorous than the state's requirements. Um, the state of Florida requires that any suspected release or leak be investigated within 24 hours. 7-Eleven requires of its of its contractors 4 hours. and and I know personally cuz I was that guy that was called out at 3:00
in the morning to investigate a leak. So, they are serious about that. And finally, in the rare event that a release occurs, um that is governed by Florida administrative code chapter 62780 and that is going to be paid for by the
state or by the operator. Um, when I was coming into this profession in 1999, the the idea of this huge leaking underground storage tank, that was already becoming a thing of the past. It's just not it's just not a
reality anymore. Leaks do happen occasionally, but these big environmental catastrophes, these these systems are designed um to prevent against that. it only makes business sense and sense in a sense of u environmental stewardship.
So I hope that that my kind of presentation on the systems themselves and how they keep the vapors away and how the the results of the studies that were cited by the residents of Park View Place are sobering but they don't
necessarily apply to modern systems here in the United States. Thank you. Thank you. >> Um I I know when you won your elections, you didn't think you'd be getting science lessons at commission, but but it is important and and certainly lots
of uh issues raised and and and I I agree the a lot of time and effort went into compiling this and and so I it deserved our attention. um and and having the appropriate experts speak to those. Um you know, I think that's an
important part of this presentation and what we learn in these public hearings and um and and where I implement that as as land use council and and again grounding this in some of the stuff we heard at first hearing is we have uh a
planning decision to make tonight. This body has a planning decision to make tonight. and I'm here tonight uh in a quasi judicial capacity um in an effort to push forward this application through the confines and requirements of the
city of Sanford to make sure it complies with your code and your comprehensive plan and state law. And so with that, we're going to hear a lot of things, but but I think what was what has been coming up and and and doing this comprehensive review of what we heard is is coming back to to this idea of what
we heard at the forefront by the mayor before we take public hearing and that's that competent substantial evidence component because uh it is compelling what what we hear um but but Florida law is consistent in that items like
objections um or fears are are are do not rise to the level of competent substantial evidence. Um certainly things like opinions or a large number of folks do not. But it doesn't make their concerns
any less worthy of a comprehensive review and response. It's it's important uh that we provide that uh expert uh testimony and review of what was raised. So I thank them for their time on that. Um I also want to address the small area
study. Um it is a small area and of course encompasses our property but consistent and and we see this a lot through the JPA through your comprehensive plans through the counties. This area is to provide uh goods and services. Yes to the airport,
yes to the Bumba Sports Complex and yes to existing residential development um and the residents of the city of Sanford and beyond. um rolling into the comprehensive plan.
Uh and and this is just a continuation of my previous slide. We we've I think all been clear about um your staff's as their professional uh posture constitutes competent substantial evidence. your staff report which
outlines I would say and analyzes comprehensively uh the consistency with the goals, policies and objectives of your comprehensive plan as it relates to this application, this property. And so I I just want to roll through a
couple of them high level and I promise I'm shoring this up because I know I've taken a lot of your time, but the AIC land use designation is a high intensity mixed use. Um, and it's it's designed for commercial industrial uses with that
mix component for some levels of medium and higher intensity uh residential development. Uh, I said this at the forefront. So, I'll just I'll go through this uh very quickly that upon annexation that these properties in this area are
automatically designated the AIC and it it goes on to to spell out that commercial and retail developments of which we're proposing and and I just think it's important too uh we see this time and again in your staff reports and your comp plan and the joint planning
study that it is also among medium to highdensity multifamily residential developments. Um, I I wanted to just talk about that because some comments were made at first reading as it relates to a park view and
and you know, maybe we would have done things differently if it was in the city because it's in the county. I mean, the the that community was approved with in the county. Um, and so I I wanted to to pull together uh their community was approved as the
Skyway Beardall Plan development on 11 November 2nd, 2016. And madam city clerk, I'm going to hand you I have copies for all the commissioners of the staff report. >> Thank you. Now, as this makes it way its way down,
I you have a lot of material in front of in front of you, so I took the liberty of highlighting some certain provisions and it's only it's only four pages. Um, but this was done through the county and again, this was after the execution of
the joint planning agreement between the county and the city. And a couple things I want to bring to your attention when they were assessing this property uh for its potential development. Uh one, at its initial uh approval, it was for 9
and a half dwelling units per acre at 133 residential town homes. I think it's important to note because when you're looking when the county was looking at a consistency standard with their comp plan and not to run a foul to the the JPA with the city that was a medium to
higher intensity residential development that was designated in this area that would always contemplate commercial and higher intense uses. On the second page, it it it speaks to that the intent of the HIPPA AP area is to provide for higher intensity airport supportive
employment uses and medium to highdensity residential and mixeduse development that is compatible with the operation and expansion of the Orlando Sanford International Airport. So again, these uses were always supposed to coexist together >> and and originally it was contemplated
that these would be a higher intensity residential development. Now moving on to the next page, consistency with the land development code. At the bottom there, I I thought this was interesting. It said that the proposed development and neighboring HIPAP
designated parcels uh the buffers for this community were reduced and they were reduced at the on at the approval of that subdivision because the development potential of the land use designation of which we both share and
which is equivalent as you saw in the equivalency chart for the GAPA to the land use designation we were assigned. As it moves to the staff's overall recommendation, it says that the current proposal implements the intent of the HIPAP which is to promote that higher intensity
including commercial and industrial uses. It talks about the higherend density residential development and then at the end of the last paragraph before the recommendation, it says that this development at 133 town homes at the time
serves as a transi transitional use between higher intensities along East Lake Mary Boulevard to the north, so that's us, and lower density single family uses south of Kentucky Street and recommended approval based on that criteria not only of the county's
comprehensive plans, but in line with joint planning agreement with the city. Now, over the years, the that PD was amended uh I believe twice, best I could tell, to ultimately reduce the unit
count and then finally change the asset class from town homes to single family. You don't need to go through this. I'm not going to take the time to go through it, but I I do want to hand it out because it's one of the addendum which shows the current use down to seven. Hand it to the clerk. So, so overall, uh, this this area is
being developed exactly the way that the county and the city always envisioned it. Higher intensity residential uses acting as a transition to the more intense commercial uses along East M Lake Mary Boulevard, consistent with your comprehensive plan, consistent with
the land use designation and the joint plan agreement and the small area study. So, you saw the site layout uh from the staff uh report and uh we did our homework. We have uh I'll bring up a project engineer. We you saw a uh
amendment to our site plan which removed that that that variance request if you will for the dumpster. But I'm going to have Jeremy walk you through some of the other alternatives uh to show you that we we heard what you said and we wanted to implement it for your review and and
feedback. Good afternoon, Jeremy Anderson, 4020 Edgewater Drive, Orlando. It's a pleasure to be here before you again tonight. Thank you for your time. Um, so following the last uh hearing, we were tasked with some with a little bit of
homework. So, we did we did do that homework. Um, we were asked to consider reducing the front landscape buffer by five feet and increasing the proposed landscape buffer on the southern end of the property to provide a greater um landscape buffer of course to the uh
residential development to our south. Uh, we were asked to consider like preservation of existing trees which we did and I'm going to get into here in just a moment. Uh there was a question about um how much fill would be required on site. I could talk about that a
little bit. Um there was also discussion on the location of the uh 8ft tall decorative buffer wall. Um whether that could be on the property line or perhaps moved further into the property.
And then finally we we also went over the solid waste um location being in the 50 foot wide setback. And uh there was also discussion on the means of access um for the drive from a driveway perspective. So this is one of the exhibits we have here to share. Now this
this exhibit is the plan the conceptual this is just a conceptual plan. This is the conceptual plan with the solid uh waste enclosure positioned within that southern 50-foot um building setback line. The green line that we have shown
there along the southern buffer is excuse me approximately 30 feet from the southern boundary. Um is the concept of like where that buffer wall could be located. Um this is the same plan showing that
buffer wall along the property line and and this is the updated um conceptual plan showing the solid wastist enclosure outside of the building setback and meeting all building setbacks. Um this plan also shows the reduction of the
front landscape buffer to 20 ft and the increase of the southern buffer from 25 ft to 30 feet. So, that's a five- foot shift that we considered and we can certainly make make it if if that's what the uh body would like us to do. Um,
from a tree preservation standpoint, um the the plan that um Miss Henson showed a while ago showed some of those existing trees. I can describe it to you. Happy to show that plan again if you'd like to see it. But the the the boundary along the southern property line is a mixture of like undergrowth
like dense undergrowth and palm trees. So that's what we have in that land that landscape buffer. Right now they're just palm trees. the the um master plan that we've presented shows compliance with the city's uh landscape buffer
regulations which is a double row of 4 inch diameter breast height canopy trees. So that's a very mature canopy tree positioned 25 ft on center for each row but staggered. So every 12 and a half ft you're going to have a tree with two staggered rows. These are canopy
trees, right? their their canopy becomes 30 40 feet when they're mature. It's it's there's no comparison between that requirement from the city and keeping these palm trees. So, we would like to to just implement, you know, the code requirement for landscape buffer,
provide a better screen to the residents um due to um from from this the fill the amount of fill on site is is due is is like set based off of elevation of roads. Also in consideration of storm water management, the groundwater on this site is is from the seasonal high
perspective is only one to two feet below grade. So that means everything needs to be built up. So we're going to have a 3 ft of fill roughly on our site. Um so this is not a fully engineered drawing yet. So we have not done that yet. So just please it's a rough
estimate based off of um these storm water requirements as well as connection to roads. Um we talked about the location of the buffer wall and the solid waste and then from driveway access perspective we've been speaking with Simol County throughout this entire process. uh we reached out to them again
the so generally the the take is related to driveway access is like you know you're going to meet need to meet the results of your traffic analysis right so the consideration of a right turn lane on Lake Mary Boulevard as well as the access point is all going to be based off of the results of the left the
um traffic study and then the driveway connection the skyway being restricted right in right out currently again that's something is also subject to the traffic study the reason Why it that Simol County wanted it restricted like we're showing is is is for that morning
peak hour, right? So when people are going to work, they've dropped their kids off or they're going to drop their kids off at school. It said that peak hour when when cars stack up at this intersection and the sim the county didn't want somebody trying to make a left into the site blocking the
intersection. So that's the reason um why that is uh been shown conceptually. But again, we are going to be meeting the results of the traffic study. So, I do hope I don't miss anything related to some of the homework we had to do. So, I again, I appreciate your consideration
and your ear. So, thank you. >> Wait, I missed what the final decision is on where you would put the wall. >> I think I think we're um open to that. >> Open to what? >> Open. >> This exercise, mayor, is to provide some
sight alternatives. I think currently the preference is to put the wall on the property line so that it's secure and we don't have that wasted space. Um there's an engineering word for that but that wasted space of potential maintenance
trash maybe people get back there. I think the ultimate uh site security for our property and adjoining properties is to have the wall on the property line uh in accordance with your code and then your fully landscape buffer beyond that
uh as outlined in the PD. Uh but we did want to make sure that we had gone through that process which I think took up right right up all of the two weeks to put to put together um to you know as best we can engineer this thing again like Jeremy said without being fully
engineered. Uh but wanted to make sure that we had those alternatives for you to see. >> So the the double row of trees you were speaking of would be on this the um 7-Eleven side of the wall. That's
correct. Okay. >> Yeah. >> That's right. And and that ensures best maintenance practices and again site security and and in line with the PD ordinance as written as well. I went back there. Um so I I think I
have maybe just one or two more slides and and we Jeremy covered buffering quite a bit and to the mayor's question as well. Uh, also keep in mind that we uh and and this should be now part of the PD ordinance uh agreed to a twoft uh
height uh raise on the wall to to 8 feet as well on top of the the landscape buffer. We continue to be open to moving the whole site that 5T into Lake Mary Boulevard if that's the preference of this body as well to add a little bit additional setback. Um, but I do want to
just call out again that we are, you know, we are coming into the city and and and of course complying or exceeding your your setbacks and your and your and your land development code, your landscaping code. But we are also uh
faced with the reality that we have a residential development that you know per its approval has reduced buffering because it's within a high intensity land use designation equivalent to ours. So always envisioned that there would be
some tightness in the buffering and I I think what we've been able to achieve in the PD and with these additional conditions that were you know certainly agreeable to uh provide uh much more than the appropriate buffering previously proposed at at first reading.
Um and so uh with that I just want to thank you for this long you know the time on this long presentation. There was much to go through. uh great points and I think concerns were raised and so we wanted to make sure we covered all those things comprehensively so that we
can you know meet what the staff is ultimately re recommending based on their compatibility uh with the area consistency with your land development code your comprehensive plan joint planning agreement the small area study and Florida law uh with that I'll save the rest of my time to respond
to any public comment but thank you so much for your time I'm happy to answer any specific questions at this juncture. >> Does anybody have any questions? >> Yes, I do. So, your team did a really good job of trying to debunk all of the health um studies that you have, but did
you all like look at all and it's not a requirement, but did you look to see if you had any data showing that this would not negatively impact this neighborhood? Did you have any data showing that? >> Sure. >> Neighborhood? >> Yeah, and I would I would answer that this way, Commissioner. Um,
you know, all all any applicant can do when they come to the city is have a sufficient application that complies with your land development code and submit yourself to your staff review for consistency. And we were able to do
that, I think, with the purpose of uh, you know, at at the baseline as it relates to the future land use, which is the planning of the property in the area. We've done that. We've shown that staff has provided competent substantial evidence that's proven that. Um, and
when we implement that planning at the zoning level through our PD and the number of voluntary conditions that we've outlined and the additional that we've heard through some of the feedback of the residents, the additional wall, the landscape buffering, looking through those things to make make sure that
we're providing not just code standards but above code standards through that PD process. Then yes, commissioner, we certainly have provided and submitted a consistent and and mitigated of those aspects project. >> Okay.
>> Um couple one comment first. I appreciate you're giving us the information on the original zoning of this by the county because that was a question that I think a lot of us has is why are we in this predicament now? It is still a little unusual to me that there's a development this close to now
a 7-Eleven, but that gives us the history. So, thank you for that. Um, I do have a question for UC Davis guy, and I'm sorry I forgot your name, but I remember where you were from. One of your charts said that, and I'm
old enough to remember these days before they started really rigorously enforcing the environmental concerns with this. Um, but one of the ones that you mentioned from the European studies had a date on there of I think 2024 or but
you had said it was all prior to 2009. Explain that please. >> Correct. So, uh, what I said was that the the, um, studies that were highlighted in yellow were either partially from before 2009 or entirely
from 2009. So, it's it's almost like they're comparing apples and oranges when it comes to the impact on the the local area around those what they call petrol stations. >> And it's important to realize too is that 2009 was the directive that was
issued by the European Union, but as we all know, these requirements have a lag time before they're fully implemented. So, it's unknown and and entirely possible, probable even that the the
localities that were being studied were still under the context of the um unregulated or the lack of the vapor recovery system that was causing the results that they were getting from these these um
>> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out why the second one had a date of 2020 something. See, the the the study was published in 2023, but it was started in 1998 and it ran through 2018.
>> Okay. Thank you for that. And in your time working with this kind of process, I know that there are a lot fewer incidents than there used to be and we're all grateful to hear that. Uh, how many leaks were you involved in?
Well, the nature of the nature of of my job is that I'm involved. That's your job to get involved when there's a leak. Yeah. So, I can tell you that it's not it's not the number of leaks. It's it's that the magnitude has gone down. It's kind of like lightning. Like Florida's
like got a lot of lightning. Well, actually, I should say tornadoes. Florida has a lot of tornadoes, but they're all very small, and we're not known for that. And it's the same thing with the leaks in these in these stations, especially with with 7-Eleven, which I'm more familiar with, is that
the leaks have become more and more minor. Okay. >> And they they generally tend to stay within the property boundary and they're cleaned up generally within a year or two, >> but they do happen. >> They're going to happen. Yes. >> Well, I appreciate your bonafiday. I
don't question them at all. And I'm grateful that you expressed appreciation for what the residents here have done to do their homework and to do their research. >> Absolutely. >> Because we are concerned about their safety, rightly so. So, we need science that we're hearing from you to dispel
those concerns. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Any other questions for Okay, thank you. Have quite a few requests to speak. We'll start with Nathan Christensen. We'll each have about three minutes and
we would ask that you try to avoid repeating what others have said, but certainly um you will have an opportunity to speak. Mr. Christensen. >> Good evening. I'm Nathan Christensen, 3824 Corona Court. Uh good evening, mayor, committee commissioner, and fellow residents. The proposed development places one of the most
intensive commercial uses, a 24-hour gas station too close to residential neighborhood, and that proximity is the heart of the issue tonight. The city's comprehensive plan provides clear guidance on this issue. Policy Flu 1.3.6 paragraph 3 states that the general commercial areas are not intended to accommodate activities which may
generate nuisance impacts including glare, smoke, other air pollutants, noise, vibration, or major fire hazards. A 24-hour gas station by its very nature introduces many of these exact impacts. Continuous high-intensity lighting, fuel emissions, noise, and increased safety risk. This places it outside what is
considered compatible commercial use adjacent to residential neighborhoods. Gasoline contains benzene as we've already discussed is a carcinogen and apparently there are safe levels of exposure as expressed by our our expert here. I would disagree with that. I may not be an expert but I don't agree that there are safe levels of carcinogen
exposures. There um the lighting associated with gas station is particularly from the fuel canopy is substantially more intense than commercial uses other commercial uses and operates continuously throughout the night. This is fundamentally different from other uses such as medical offices, gyms, retail spaces which reduce or
eliminate lighting after hours. Policy flu 1.3.2 states that commercial development should be concentrated in areas that promote efficient flow of traffic and minimize adverse impact on residential quality. The site and surrounding access roads were not designed to accommodate the type of traffic generated by a 24-hour gas
station. This includes increased vehicle volume, tanker trucks, delivery trucks, and late night traffic patterns. Placing high traffic use of this location does not promote efficient flow and induces congestion and safety concerns adjacent to homes. Furthermore, with the with the timing of this project, I fear the traffic study will be completed during
the summer months when the nearby school is not in session. This school generates large amounts of traffic and if not taken into consideration will skew the study and provide inaccurate data on the surrounding roads. As it has been expressed tonight, some would argue that I'm bringing up too much about a highly
regulated industry. Regulation is not eliminate risk. We've seen clear examples of this. 5 years ago, not that long after 2009, there wasn't a minor leak. There was a major leak in Hawaii. A petroleum release from a US Navy operated fuel system contaminated the drinking water supplied for
approximately 93,000 people. Families experienced negative health symptoms and many were forced to temporarily relocate from their homes. This was not a minor leak. This was not a poorly run private operation. This was a federally managed, highly regulated facility. And yet a failure still occurred with real
consequences for families living nearby. Studies have shown that even a small leakage rate of two drops per second can render near nearly half a billion gallons of water unfit for drinking. I'm not suggesting that these events will happen here, but it does demonstrate an important point. When hazardous fuel storage is placed in close proximity to
residential communities, even low probability events can carry high consequences. That is why proximity matters and why land use compatibility matters. Based on the comprehensive plan there um and the intensity of this use, I respectfully believe the answer is no. Please uphold the vision of the comprehensive plan, protect the character and safety of our neighborhood
and deny this proposal. Thank you. M just >> what was the um comprehensive plan um reference the first one? >> The first reference sir was 1.3.6 paragraph 3. >> Second one was 113. >> The second one was 1.3.2.
>> Okay. Thank you. Next we have Danica Christensen. Danica Christensen, 3824 Corona Court. Um, good evening. Um, I live directly behind the proposed gas station. I'm a stay-at-home mom of young children. I spend a lot of time at home and in that yard. Um,
I talked to you last time about standing at a gas station and taking a big smell. What do you smell when you stand at a gas station? You smell the gas. We're going to be directly that is going to be our everyday where our home is about 100 ft from
those fuel pumps. Every time my kids step out to play, they'll be breathing in those fumes. I know there's a lot of studies. We've talked about those things, but I feel like in 2026, we should know, we know better, that these fumes are just not acceptable. Um,
I would like to reference um policy FLU7, letter Q, establishes criteria for new development. Requires that new development comply with performance criteria, including nuisance abatement standards regulating impacts such as
noise and odor. Joy for our gas station operating directly next to homes will generate lots of noise and fuel odors that directly conflicts with the intent of this policy. Comprehensive plan requires residential land be used be protected from encroachment by
incompatible non-residential development. This project places a 24-hour gas station directly next to existing homes that is not a transition that is directly adjacent to residential living. this um if this passes, all of you will
move on. They'll probably not think of it much more. These people back here will move on with their lives. Um but we won't. We'll worry about our health, our property values, our insurance premiums
will majorly go up. I've looked into it. And it'll these these insurance companies know that it's dangerous to live next to a gas station, so they raise their prices. It would be impossible to sell our homes and to use our yards. Our everyday lives will be
affected. I'm not opposed to development, but the comprehensive plan makes it clear that development must be combatible, must protect neighborhoods, and must be designed safely. Our safety, our health, and our health are at risk if this gas station is built. Please consider families living directly behind
this site, the children playing just feet away, and the long-term impacts to our neighborhood. I respectfully ask you vote no on this gas station. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Savvy Touch. >> Hello, my name is Savvi Touch. I live at
3848 Corona Court. Good evening, mayor, commissioners. Um, I want to begin by state saying that I understand growth and development are a part of a healthy community and I recognize that this planned development may include other
types of commercial businesses and many lower impact uses could be compatible with nearby homes. For example, neighborhood scale businesses such as professional offices, small cafes, local retail could serve the community without creating significant environmental or
safety concerns. However, a gas station is fundamentally different. Under the current proposal, approximately 15 homes would back up directly against the gas station, my home included. Uh these homes would have
little to no meaningful buffer between their backyards and fuel operations. From a planning perspective, this situation creates what is known as incompatible land use adjacency where high density commercial use is
placed directly next to an existing lowdensity residential neighborhood. That's competent substantial evidence. Gas stations are not are considered high impact commercial uses because they involve underground fuel storage tanks,
fuel vapor emissions, bright lightning, extended operating hours, and constant vehicle traffic. These factors conflict with safety, health, and quiet character of an existing residential neighborhood. While walls or landscaping may provide
visual screening, they do not prevent the movement of airborne pollutants. Um, an 8-oot wall or even a 20 foot wall is not going to stop chemicals such as benzene or volatile organic compounds known as VOCC's
from traveling through the air into our nearby homes and our backyards. I am a disabled veteran who ex who was exposed to burn pits and other toxin substances during my tour. Because of that exposure,
I I already live with respiratory and other health challenges. Additionally, environmental pollutions create a real concern not only for me but to young children and elderly the elderly population.
So, one of the reasons I chose to live here is because the natural surroundings. I get to see the trees. The nature is around me. I used to be able to step outside and breathe fresh air, hear the birds chirping. The sense of peace and quiet is what is
part of what makes a home livable. With the gas station placed close to our homes, that experience would change significantly significantly. Instead of calm and quiet, it would be increased traffic. noise, fumes, lightning, and
safety risks directly behind where families live just to save on trips. There are also serious concerns for the broader community. Increased traffic and activity associated with gas stations that could compromise the safety and
atmosphere of the neighbor neighbor schools and sports complex where children and families regularly gather and educate for recreational purposes. I have a lot more and I want to get
through all of it. Um, but I know my time ran out, but can I finish what I have written? >> About 30 more seconds. So the planning framework used by the city of Sanford emphasizes compatible land use protecting residential areas.
According to the Sanford comprehensive plan 2018, development decision should help maintain livable communities to enhance the quality of life for residents. Under Florida law, development approvals must remain consistent with adoptive
comprehensive plan. The Florida statute 163 requires that local development decisions align with the comprehensive plan. If a project undermines neighborhood compatibility, safety, or livability, the city has the or authority to deny the request. I serve
this country to protect the community. Now, I'm asking for the community to protect the community. >> Right. Thank you. Judith Centi. I don't know if I pronounced that right.
I hope I did. >> Hi, good evening. Good evening. I'm Judith Sant. I apologize I'm losing my voice. Um I live at 3844 Corona Court, Sanford, Florida. I own one of the homes that would directly back up to this proposed
development. So, I'm clearly concerned and I try to minimize my um repetitions. I'm a teacher and an educator. So, when I work with children and I train others to work with children, I always look at the whole child with the specific
characteristics and the needs of that child. So when there's a service that's highly recommended for one child, but I know that it would be detrimental to another child, I will advise against it. So I look at the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan the same way
holistically. It has different components that they need to align well together. Right now we have a major conflict between the business side and the community side that we are representing. Excuse me. So when you when your city
staff had to do a content analysis of all the concerns that the community submitted and not just from us but from the school and everywhere else representing hundreds of people to me that's a clear red flag that it's not a good fit within the com comprehensive
plan. Excuse me. You ask us to focus on no emotions or thoughts because they are not representative of that's not how you have to make decisions. However, emotions brought all these people here all the concerned citizens because if
someone is not feeling safe or they have safety and health concerns, these people don't want to live, work, play and retire here because these people really want to leave this area and excuse me and um yes you heard our
concerns you saw theatic analysis of all the concerns but we are concerned for our safety and I don't believe that representative Britain's uh question was answered. There is no study and I was actually one of the persons who compiled all those studies. There is not one
study that would tell you that benzene is safe and it's not detrimental detrimental to the children's development. It it's linked with all kinds of cancers. So yes, that the residents will be concerned if it's in their backyard. The pumps are in the
backyards. We don't want to be the next site of the next shooting that happened recently when if you looked at the picture the bullets can literally drive into our homes or some of our neighbors homes. So we are concerned about our health and
safety and yes we'll do the traffic study but if you go outside now you'll see a major congestion already between Skyway Drive and Lake M Boulevard from both directions and depending on when
the tanker tanks trucks will come it will cause at least 30 40 sorry 50 children to be late from school within 5 minutes. And in closing, I know my time is up. I would like to leave you with a
quote which is which is the golden rule that's in the Bible and even on the wall of the United Nations. And it says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And with all due respect, I sincerely doubt that anyone in this
chamber, no matter what you represent and whatever side you're on, I sincerely doubt that anybody here would be happy on the other side of this six or eight foot fence. And I sincerely hope that a respected city commission will not wish
it and voted for us to do so. Thank you. >> Thank you. Saba Ovansi. >> Good evening. Good evening everybody. Uh my name is Chabos Lans and I live at 3844 Corona Court. I like to apologize
if uh hard to understand me. Please note English is not my first language. So uh six years ago my family moved to Samford because our son started gilo school and that was the only thing brought my family to Samford and we were so happy
when we find out that they planning to build a high school just south of the uh elementary school right now and uh we don't want to be a part of that traffic u what going on in there in the morning and afternoon. So, we purchased the
house next to the school so we can walk into the school and I know that the gas station will be the thing that drive us away because we're not going to spend a minute living next to the gas station and I I don't think that neither any of
you will. Uh I believe I'm saying this for all the residents in Park Place that they do not want to live right next to the toxic non-stop loud place. And I understand this is a commercial lot uh and what nearby residents need uh for
their health and safety is something that is non247 non-toxic and has a least possible food waste. uh if you think if you have a well thought out comprehensive plan then you should not let this gas station to be
developed this close to a residential place and I believe that the city should not allow a toxic business to be in a safe category as a non-toxic business under the relaxed uh rules for a PD uh
buffer and setbacks because a new toxic hazardous poisonous unsafe development should not be allowed right next to the resident residential area. And by the way, many of the residents already wondering in an unfortunate event that a
park place resident develop cancer, whose responsibility will it be? I bet a young aggressive silky talking lawyer will make a fortune out of it. So, a decision in your hands. Please do the right thing. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you. Barney Redmond. >> Good evening. My name is Barry Redmond. No, not Barney. Um, I live at 3800 Corona Court. um the house closest to Skyway Skyway Drive. Um I just have two subjects I'd like to
cover if you don't mind. The first um am I right by saying you can't turn left into the gas station from 46. Is that correct? >> You can't. >> What? >> You can't turn left into the gas station from 46. Right. If you're coming from 46 down Lake Mary, you can't
>> you have to make a U-turn. >> You can't make a Yeah. Leturn. Yes. So, you're going to be making a U-turn. Uh the traffic coming down that road is usually doing 55 60 miles an hour. um making a U-turn there is not the safest thing to do in my opinion. Um and let's just for instance um if a truck a
delivered truck was coming down that same road trying to trying to uh enter 7-Eleven, he going to have to make the same U-turn. Um I've been a truck driver 20 years um driving 18 wheels for 20 years. I know for a fact you cannot make that turn from the left hand turning lane to go back towards 7-Eleven. So,
you either make an illegal U-turn or maybe maybe turn down Skyway Drive and realize you can't turn left and then you're in a predicament. Um, very unsafe thing for the truck drivers for sure. While we're on the subject of truck
drivers, um the um the noise that truck makes, we're all familiar with it. air brakes, engines, the backing up um safety devices. Um when to start unloading, slamming doors, pulling out pulling out the uh the ramps, etc. Um
all this is done, 80% of deliveries to 7-Eleven are done after hours between 11 and 4:00 a.m. And I've done my homework. I know that for a fact. So, we've got to listen to that. We an 8 foot 8 foot 8 foot wall and a few trees ain't going to stop the noise from those trucks early
in the morning. and you know we deserve to get some peace and quiet. The second thing if you don't mind there's a statement made last week uh sorry two weeks ago at this meeting the statement was most gas stations are close to homes
blatantly incorrect. Most gas stations are on the corner of large intersections and nowhere near homes. That's where most gas stations are. So we did some homework. We drove around looking at gas stations trying to find ones that maybe had some homes nearby. We found a few um
mainly older gas stations, pre90s maybe. Um there are a couple of homes behind them. None of these homes are twotory and none of these gas stations were open 24 hours. That's a problem. Okay, that's a huge
difference. So, uh just to close this this um this gas station, it doesn't belong in in in in this uh in this area. Um, for the traffic concerns, for the fact that we're so close by, for the noise,
um, I I suggest that you you you deny this proposal, please. Um, for the, you know, for for the residents, I think we deserve better. Um, it's never been done before. You can't compare it to anything else, so I'm not really sure why Samford would entertain it now. Um, that's all I
can say. I appreciate your time. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, >> Patricia Dinkan. Good evening. My name is Patricia Deacon. I live at 3,800 Corona Court and I am you can see my backyard so in the
picture I'm the first home. Um I wanted to just site some things. I know I don't want to we're redundant as well. So I just wanted to site some I know we talked about it last two weeks ago but um policy FLU1.1 uh amendment shall not shall be
consistent with all elements of the city comprehensive plan. We talked about that the amendment will not significantly alter acceptable existing land use patterns or adversely affect livability of the area or the health and safety of
the residents. I have a question. Does this this is your question for you guys. Does this amendment adversely affect the livability, the health and safety of the residents? Uh my opinion is it does also in the
same same section and does this enhance the character of the community? So it says it must enhance the character of the community. Does this gas station enhance the character of our community? I'm going to go down to FLU1.1.6. I'm going to go to G.
ensure safe and convenient on-site and off-site traffic flow and vehicle parking needs and prohibit development within existing and future rights of way. Does this plan ensure the safety and convenient on-site and off-site?
And finally, 1.17, nuisance abatement standards regulating adverse impacts such as noise, vibration, glare, odor, fire, explosion, and community appearance. Are those met?
One thing I do appreciate that was brought up this a this evening um was the history of how the reasonzoning happened to our property before this is long before any of us knew that this development would be built before we thought about buying a home before we
were sold on these homes. So that changed it evolved and I asked that we evolve this property too. So, I understand that we might have to have some some resoning and we might have to have businesses or something be behind the homes there. It's not just going to
be our sanctuary. But my question is if we've evolved this property Sanford permitted this residential to be single family home residential how and the changing of the buffering and all that
how can we not evolve and change or consider the next piece. So that happened and now this is this. So we were there first again. Nobody here knew that. Nobody had the sales agent say you know we're going to have a 7-Eleven in six years. Nobody said that to me. It
was a beautiful, you know, a beautiful thing like everybody else has said before. So, please consider those amendments or those um those citations I said earlier when you're making your decision if those things can accurately be said yes to. Thank you for your time.
>> Thank you, >> Michelle Wescott. Hi, good evening. Uh, my name is Michelle Wescott, 919 Poinsettia Drive, Chiliota, Florida. Um, I am actually coming at this from a little different perspective because I do not live here. Um, I live in Chiliota. Uh, the only
thing that brings me to Sanford is my children's school, which is down the street, Galileo. Uh I'm a parent of three children who uh currently attend Galileo and I am here to respectfully oppose this gas station, not because I'm against development, but because of the
situation that having this gas station would um would provide. Uh we've already covered a lot of the the health and safety issues. Um but coming from a different perspective as as a parent coming into Sanford um who primarily
does uh would otherwise do everything in Juliet Orovito. Um the school is what brings me to Sanford and this and what brings me to do my errands and run uh business and things in Sanford. And so having this gas station here, I would be
very likely to pull my children from the school as wonderful as the school is because of the issues um that having the gas station provides. For one um student vulnerability, this is a K through Galileo is a K through8 school with young children who walk, wait, and
gather. the gas station. Introducing a transient environment with unfamiliar adults and increased traffic would not be the kind of environment that I would like to have directly uh next to the school where my children are, especially knowing when we know that having the gas station, it can increase risks in uh
including exploitation and unsafe interactions. Finally, uh this K through8 school is a charter school. So, uh I'm not the only one coming from outside of Sanford to Sanford. Um, it draws families from all across the c the county. Parents choose
this school because they believe it is the best uh fit for their child, but also it is a safe and supportive environment. Having the gas station at its doorstep sends the opposite message and it may very sorry, excuse me, and it may very well impact families decisions
to stay such as mine. Um, this isn't about stopping progress. It's about stopping uh it's about protecting our children and making thoughtful you choices about the land use. And I urge you to consider a different type of development for this location, one that
supports rather than undermine undermines the safety and well-being of our children and students. Thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you. Dallas Marone. >> Do I press this green button? >> No. >> Okay. Okay. Uh my name is Al Marone. I
live in uh Lake Mary uh 705 Creek Water Paris. My sister lives in the neighborhood. Um, so my thing is that you guys have every right to say no to this if you don't feel comfortable with the risk, the safety risk that it might
pose to these kids. I'm a teacher in Semino County here and um, one thing that I really have trouble conveying to my kids these days is a sense of community. And they really feel detached to their community. I mean, back in the
day, we had local newspapers and we had, you know, town hall meetings where everybody went and we all felt a sense of community with each other. We felt like we had a direct impact on how things went and how things were managed and we had a voice. And I feel like kids today, they just don't feel that voice
in their community anymore. They don't feel that connection. And so, you know, to me, seeing something like this where we a community comes forward to their city commission and they put forward valid and competent fears. I mean, I
thought that was pretty disturbing that, you know, we were categorizing this as incompetent or fear-mongering these fears. I mean their list of studies and and I feel like number one I wasn't comfortable with how they addressed the studies and saying that they were you
know incompetent or that they weren't valid. And then another thing I found kind of disturbing was that they haven't even decided where they want to put the wall yet. I mean, I would think that if they were concerned 100% with the safety of the kids that they were putting the gas station in front of, they would have
come with a finalized view of it being as far away from the the property line as possible, but they wanted to be along the property line because it's wasted space or something like that. I'm not really sure. Um, so you have every right to deny this because of the safety
concerns and you should. And you got kids and parents here that have come and they've put themselves out in the community and this sense of community that we're missing. And you guys had the opportunity to do the right thing and to show these kids that they do have a
voice in their community and that their fears are taken seriously and that they're founded on facts. These aren't, you know, this isn't like, you know, fantasy. This isn't just a bunch of people afraid for no reason. These are genuine fears and concerns that they
have. So I would respectfully ask you to vote no for them and for their voice and for their their genuine fears and their concerns. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Michael Tuk to
Michael Tool. Sorry. >> No problem. >> Misread the uh last letters as a K. >> No problem. If I can um submit the study by the National Institute of Health, I will as a public comment sitter. If not, I plan to represent Miss Martin over here and enter it into evidence for your
consideration. Um but there is a National Institute of Health study posted in 2023 was three years ago that shows the likelihood of uh increase risk of childhood leukemia for people who live
within 250 meters of a petrol station. And again, this is after 2009, which the applicant has brought up the in a whether it's a European study or an American study,
the Europeans use vapor recovery systems just as much as the United States, they're substantially similar, if not identical over there as they are here. Um, additionally, there's still cars on the road that are pre 2009 who don't
have these safety issues and still would admit admit these emissions onto these property levels. Uh the likelihood of cancer for children five and under is twofold when you live within that 250 meters and fourfold as they get older
approaching the years five and six as they've now been exposed this even longer. Um I have copies that I've provided to the applicant. I can provide each a copy for the board member if you'd like them to. Um we will be entering it through Miss Martin unless
there's some kind of opposition here. Uh but regardless of the admissions, they haven't addressed the the traffic patterns as we know now that you will be required to now only make a right-hand turn into the gas station from Skyway.
And so when you're coming from Skyway and you realize that you can't make that left-hand turn into the gas station, where are you going to make your U-turn to now get into the gas station? We're going to circle the block where realistically people are going to use the entrance of our community to make
that Uturn where people are coming in and out of gates where kids are being dropped off by the bus going to be using that area to make their U-turn to get back into the gas station. U the applicant again didn't answer Miss Britain's question of whether they've
actually done the studies to show that it's safe. They can't. There's nothing that's going to show that these emissions are safe here. And they indicated that they all an African can do is come with a plan that that meets
the the requirements of the city plan. That's not all they can do. They can do the studies that show the state. They can move their gas stations. They can do lots of things to show that um you know where they want to put a gas station will work with the community. You're
allowed to deny if it the safety concerns are not mitigated and the safety concerns here cannot be mitigated by the applicant here. >> We respectfully ask that if you can deny, you should deny. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> Bailey Martin. Hi, my name is Bailey and my address is 3988 Lightning Court and I love to have playdates and in this neighborhood I get a play date almost every day. But if you vote for the gas station, I will move
and I won't have as much playdates each day. So, please vote no because this is my favorite place to be and I call this place home. Thank you for listening to my speech. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Amanda Martin.
>> Amanda Martin, 3988 uh Lightning Court, Sanford in the Park View Place community. Uh good evening. I am a mother of two young girls. I'm here tonight because this decision directly impacts their safety, their health, and their future. Gas stations are not just convenient
stops. They are sources of continuous chemical exposure. Obviously, this has been repeated. They release benzene, other volatile organic compounds into the air during fueling, fuel delivery. Benzene obviously is a well-established carcinogen. Um, and thank you for confirming that there that leaks do
happen. Um, research shows that children who live close to gas stations have higher risk of childhood cancers, leukemia. Some studies showing more than double the risk of those living nearest. And this is not just about cancer. Studies from the National Institute of Health, as you guys have been given copies, show that increased exposure um
to traffic related air pollution like what surrounds gas stations is linked to developmental delays in young children as well. These risks matter most for infants, young children, like my five-month-old, you guys have heard, um, and the many other babies and young children in our very special
neighborhood, um, whose bodies and brains are still developing. Gas stations do not, um, they're not just bringing health concerns. Additionally, they obviously increase traffic, but they also introduce high-risisk traffic patterns. uh cars suddenly slowing down
to turn in, vehicles pulling out into traffic, congestion during peak hours, and large fuel trucks navigating tight spaces. As many of you have seen probably, Skyway Drive is not designed to absorb commercial traffic. It is a small local road that serves our neighborhood and leads directly to the Galileo School for Gifted Learning,
which is something that Sanford can be really proud of having the Galileo School. Um, so picture this. It's between 7:30 and 8 in the morning. Children are walking, biking to school. Parents are dropping off students. Now add cars turning into a gas station, vehicles pulling back into traffic, and
a fuel truck entering all at once. This is not a hypothetical. This is what would happen regularly. The result is congestion, confusion, and a significantly increased risk of accidents right next to an elementary school. This is not just about inconvenience. It is a predict
predictable and preventable safety risk on many levels. We are taking a quiet residential road connected to a school and turning it into a commercial traffic access point. I am not asking that this gas station not be added to support our community and further development of
Sanford. Um I'm just asking and advocating that we put it in a more responsible location. Um as a mother, I cannot control everything that affects my children's safety, but I can stand here and ask that we not knowingly introduce risks that research has already found to be
harmful. Um and in response to the professional um from it was Jussi wherever you were from. Thank you. Um when it comes to children, we should not require absolute proof of harm before we act responsibly. Um we chose to live in
this community because it felt safe. Almost said because it felt like a place where our children could grow up healthy. I am asking you to protect that. You have the ability tonight to prevent unnecessary risks to children's health and safety. Please use that power to protect the families who already call this community home. And I'll leave you
with this. As Danica had shared, years from now, this decision will still be here. My daughters and many other precious children will still be walking these streets and breathing this air. I am asking you to make the choice that you would want made if these were your children. Thank you. >> Thank you,
>> Amy Martin. Hi, my name is Amy Martin and I'm live at um 4327 C Miss Drive in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. I don't live in the Park View Place community, but some people that I love very dearly do. I have a daughter, two precious granddaughters,
and a wonderful son-in-law that chose to move into that community. And first, I'd venture to guess that no people sitting on your side of the podium actually have a gas station in your backyard or one abuing your subdivision
and that you wouldn't particularly want that if it was being proposed. You are clearly an elected body who is responsible for representing the people of Sanford and in this case residents of Parkview Place. As has already been mentioned, these
sweet families were there first. And quite frankly, you know, I think they should have your highest priority when considering this. Had the gas station been there first, a lot of different choices might have been made. And there's a lot of people living there that would have not chose those
wonderful homes to live in. Please show the Sanford citizens of Parkview Place that they matter to you. That their concerns matter, that even the possibility that harm could come to these precious
families and children matters to you. The scientists repeatedly said that the studies raged by the residents don't necessarily apply here, not that they definitively do not apply here.
Please show that you are willing to put people above profits, grandchildren above growth, and exercising outside above expansion. I implore you to think about how you want this vote to go if it was being
proposed to be built in your backyard. Finally, I'm just going to assume that most of y'all came in here tonight and you'd already made a decision about how you were going to vote and that this was just another hurdle to get past before you got to cast your
vote. I just want to challenge each of you to consider that sometimes changing your mind for the right reasons takes more courage, humility, integrity,
and strength of carry, strength of character than standing your ground in the name of growth, expansion, and profit. Side note, listening to that uh Melissa Pascuso who was the the business spotlight
listening to her and the things that she does for the community and how she clearly puts people above profits. I vote for a steak in shape in that property because we need more of her. Thank you.
>> Thank you, >> Christa Kane. Hello. Thank you very much for hearing me. Um, my name is Christa Kaine. I work at I I live at 620 Riverside Court in Longwood, Florida. I am another parent of a Galileo student. My son is in first
grade. We chose Galileo very very intentionally. Um, my son does not have the easiest time with school. Galileo does a lot to support him and I absolutely feel that it is the
best place for him and I'm I was absolutely thrilled when he won the lottery to get into Galileo because that is what happens to get into Galileo. You have to win a lottery. I looked for a home to purchase after he
won the lottery. I was renting before that. Now that we know he's gotten into a good K through8 school, I am going to purchase a home. I happen to purchase in Longwood. I wanted to be relatively close. It takes me about 20 minutes most mornings.
Um, but getting back home after school drop off usually takes 30 35 because of the traffic um because of the number of cars leaving Galileo at that time. If a
traffic study is done in the summer, it will not pick that up. The amount of traffic directly before and directly after school is really significant. The idea of my first grade son and other small children walking outside to
breathe in benzene, which I um have a masters of public health from Colombia in epidemiology. I learned extensively about how to read studies. Carcinogens have a safe level because it's what we can detect, not not because it's
actually safe. Because it's what we can detect. The better our studies get, the better our cancer detection methods get, the more we will detect, the lower that safe level will get over time. The studies we
currently have show us only what is currently known. And these children who play outside at Galileo, who play outside at Bumba across the street where we spend almost every day after school, um we we will
not do so anymore. And my son's father, who is no longer um my partner, is currently looking for a home and he was planning to move as close to Galileo as he could, but I am certain that he will not consider Parkview Place if the
7-Eleven is put in. I encourage you to um as so many have presented already to uh exercise your right to say no to this because it is very clear that you can it is very clear that this is a health and
safety uh violation that is not in line with the with the the city plan. Um and I encourage you to do so. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Ashley Mc Williams. Good evening, mayor, commissioners, and
staff. Um, my community has already expressed the concerns I share. Um, I could never come behind, especially the gentleman who was sitting there, the teacher. Um, along with everybody really. Um, I just simply ask that you
remember if this is approved, the residents, not the applicant, not their attorneys, will live with the impacts 24 hours a day long after this meeting is over. When evaluating land use compatibility,
proximity between a 24-hour fueling facility and residential homes presents legitimate public health and safety considerations appropriate for careful review. Residents respectfully request that these considerations be carefully
evaluated when determining whether this proposed use is appropriate for this location. And again, I can't I'm not going to go over I had a whole thing um written up with um studies and
whatnot from 2018, 2019. Um but again, I can't I can't state anymore. I just really support my community, my neighbors, the schools, the teachers, um everybody that has just come out for this. And just we
really hope that we have your support on denying this. This is not an appropriate area for this, especially being 24-hour gas station. It's just it's not appropriate. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That is all of the um speaker cards I
have I believe. Is there anyone else in the audience wishes to speak? >> Yes. Can I ask why gas station? >> Because a property owner has a right to >> I just want to I want that question.
>> Okay. >> Right. Does the applicant want to actually um excuse me before you come out? I've got a question for staff. Um, do we have anything in code about hours of operation that would apply here? No.
Okay. All right. Thank you. I know it's been long on this presentation and thank you to the folks that are here late, particularly with with with kiddos. I appreciate you taking the time. I continue to appreciate your interest and just the the level of depth you go into. I
hopefully we've been able to implement some of it, but they're good folks. So I just thank you. Um I'm going to go through I just have a one page touch some of these things and we we've talked a lot about uh proximity. We heard on public comment
the the purpose of the AIC future land use designation is highintensity commercial industrial retail uses next to residential. In fact it's one of the few things in the city that's that's really automatic.
Your comp plan says that upon annexation, this particular parcel is to be designated AIC because it is consistent with the with the county's uh HIPAP land use designation and that comes from the joint planning agreement
and that leads into compatibility. Uh we we had the same future land use designation as Park View. It it is functionally the same today. Yes, it is a residential use currently,
but it was never intended to be a residential area. It's not a residential area. It's not. The the map show that your comp comprehensive plan shows that your joint planning agreement agrees to it. And the recent study that was approved, the small corridor study
identifies this as a mixeduse highintensity commercial area. Yes. with residential. It was always designed to be among residential and so that's good planning that is consistent with your comprehensive plan.
Uh there was some specifics which I appreciate as it relates to the comp plan 1.3.6 six, which includes paragraph 3, but in totality that relates to general commercial. That area, the general commercial designation in your comp comp plan also speaks to residential uses in in the
general commercial future land use designation. 1.3.2. It's the it dealt with the concentration pattern of commercial land uses. And that's exactly what the small area study and the joint planning agreement as have accomplished consistent with that comprehensive plan
objective. We heard about nuisance nuisance abatement and and things to avoid and I believe the the specific objective that was cited was 1.1.1 the very beginning where you look at the entire comprehensive plan that comprehensive plan which requires upon
annexation AIC taking into account all the policies plans and objectives the buffering uh and again proximity was brought up a lot proximity to commercial that is that is how and and this is in is part of the record. It is how the
Park View Place subdivision was created. It was created specifically identifying commercial uses. Specifically identifying that this residential use within this area of mixed use and highintensity commercial
uses would act as a transition. And yes, there's plenty of gas stations at large intersections. Of course there is. There's one up on 46 and Lake Mary Boulevard. It's a 7-Eleven and it's right next to a Galileo school. They are on hard intersections and this is one of
them. This is one across from the Booma Sports Complex and the airport uh noise zone. It's the reason why if you buy a house in Park View Place, there's a notice and the declaration that says there's going to be a lot of noise from the airport. It doesn't necessarily take
a a different a different notice on a deed of sale that says your property was approved next to future commercial commercial uses. It's on a hard corner with the same future land use designation now the equivalent. Of course it's going to be
commercial use and I understand preferences. I I truly do. I of course that's valid. They I I get it. And thank God that your decision today isn't to make a decision based off preferences. It's to implement your code and your
comprehensive plan in a way that's based on competent substantial evidence that your staff has provided to you, that our experts have provided to you. And we've we've we've gone through the studies. Look, I'm not an expert. But I can't speak to vapors and the differences
between a European vapor and an American vapor or a meter versus a mile, but our experts can and your staff can. And through the process of the PD ordinances have created a compatible use
that's appropriate for this land use designation. Does it belong here? It absolutely does. How do I know that? Your comprehensive plan tells me that the joint planning agreement that in that the city entered into with the
county tells me that the small area study tells me that and your staff through their competence substantial evidence has confirmed that. With that, I'm happy to answer your questions. Thank you.
>> Anybody have questions for applicant? I have questions for staff. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Commissioner. >> Well, I have a actually probably more than one question, but um does he have a pointer laser pointer?
>> I might. >> Um >> I do. >> Could you or if you somebody else would you do is better to do this. What would be the path for the um gas tanker coming in to fill the tanks? Um, excuse me.
So, so the the the fueling tank, uh, the fueling truck would come in here, it would make a turn, it would stop here and fuel up, and then it would exit down here and head back north. Okay. So, the the trucks have to be
coming from the west to get in. >> Yeah, they do. >> And there's an analysis that we do with with the user um where this is all evaluated before they we get to the stage as well. So, that was all been demonstrated today.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you. and traffic study is done with engineering. Is that correct? >> Oh, sorry. I should asked that before you sat back down. >> I I think that's a staff question. >> Yeah. Traffic study is dependent on how
many trips are generated by a given use. If they're over a certain number, they're done at this level. If they're not, then we require them when they're developed. >> I didn't understand that. >> Depends on how many trips the IT says they're going to generate at this stage.
So, if it's under a certain level, we don't require it at zoning. We can require it at engineering. If it's over a certain number, we require it here. So during staff analysis, I gather that my staff determined that their IT numbers did not trip a traffic study at this
time. >> Okay. But I thought y'all said you were doing a traffic study to work with Seminal County on the >> county may have requirements on their roads separate from ours. >> Yeah, that's right. So So when we get to
the the next step, we will be doing a full traffic study. that traffic study will have to be done during school hours um school school year to to reflect the actual u you know trips that are in the area. So it can't be done during spring
break for example. It can't be done in the summertime and things like that. >> Okay. And what um what changes would could or would be made based on the traffic study? Um I I personally don't
feel like we are going to see any changes to the plan. Um based off the traffic study, um I do think we're going to need to do a right turn lane. Um we have one access servicing two parcels and then the access to Skyway. Again,
that's one that's more maybe it's open slightly, but um I I do feel like it's most likely going to be restricted like what's shown here. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay, >> thank you for your time. >> Thank you. You had questions for staff?
>> Yes. Okay. So, mayor, if you would um allow me to address the members of of of the audience of because I'm the district one um commissioner and I just want to publicly say that legally we cannot vote
no based on your genuine fears or your concerns. Even the picture this that was so important. We cannot legally in the state of Florida in in city of Sanford in Simino County say no because of what you fear might happen. I also want want
it to be known that the city commission discussed it at the last meeting and we're discussing it now. We cannot discuss this outside of a commission meeting. So, I can't call Commissioner Wiggins or Austin or uh Commissioner Thomas or the mayor and say, "Well, what
do you think about this or can we think outside the box regarding this matter?" So, if you go will allow me, I'm going to attempt to talk to staff and to our attorney who has the experience in our comprehensive plan and in planning and zoning to to ask a couple of questions
to make sure that what the next step that I take will be the right and legal one. Okay. All right. So, when it comes to our comprehensive plan in this matter, compat compatibility is required. Is that correct? It's not an
option. It is required. Right. >> That is correct. >> Okay. That's the first one. Okay. So, when we're talking about residential land uses uses that should be protected from encroachment by incompatible nonresidential development, that
includes livability and neighborhood protection. Is that correct? Well, when they're talking about compatibility, you also have to look at what the area is zoned for. >> So, it's compatible based upon what the
zoning is. The zoning in this area was and my understanding always was intended to be high intensive. It was always intended to serve that corridor.
>> Okay. It was always intended to serve the airport. Uh again the high intensity. So is it compatible with what it has been zoned what it has been defined to do? >> Okay. And at the time that this
property, the residential part of the property was developed that zoning was in place. And so it was the understanding through the JPA, through the comprehensive plan, etc. as to
forecasting what this was going to look like prior to us being here today. >> Okay, that's where that compatibility question comes in. So even though it was intended for high intensity according to
the JPA and so on and so forth, but what we have here now is residential, but so it had to be zoned residential. So now we're up against something different even though our our joint planning agreement said this and that.
And then what we plan for that area is to be high intensity. And I did hear what Logan said about the apartments, but today we have residential homes. So, does that change anything? Because that's not high intensity. That's
residential which we approved. It was intended to be and Miss Henson at any time, please chime in here. It was intended to be a residential in the midst of high intensity. So, you may have another area that is zoned to be
something different. But with regard to this area, it was intended to be residential but sitting in the midst >> of this high intensive area and the certain criteria as to what could be adjacent to that property were covered
in that zoning. >> Okay. So, and and does that cover transitional because we're going back up from residential to commercial, highintensity commercial and and and
let me know if I'm I'm I'm missing you in this, but isn't there supposed to be some kind of transition period or like to go from commercial to residential backed up like that? Help me understand how we're able to do that. >> Okay. The AIC land use classification is
a mixeduse classification. Got it. It allows for a myriad of uses ranging from high intensity residential through industrial >> everything in between with some exceptions. The actually the city of
Sanford comprehensive plan limits residential development in AIC to no less than 10 dwelling units per acre. I do not know what seminal counties is. I did not have their lane use policies. We don't do an analysis of their lane use
policies when applying our elements. Um, but staff's review is guided by adopted codes like our technical standard comprehensive plan policies, the analysis, it's necessary to the information available for those like
regulatory frameworks, the materials submitted by the applicant and the information that we have at hand. but we don't have the benefit of living next to the the facilities next to the, you know, day-to-day experiences that they have. So, if the testimony provides
legitimate comprehensive plan policies that explain how it does not comply with the comprehensive plan, you can use that in your action. However, you have to have the correct plan that actually say why it's not compatible. >> Okay. So, now I'm going to go back to
you, Attorney Green. based on compatibility when we're looking at even though I did hear that we don't have a clause or something that talks about operation hours. Is that correct? >> Only on certain uses like community resource sorry community resource
facilities and stuff we have operational hours but in the situation of a gas station we do not. >> Okay. So, when we're talking about compatibility of this development with the residential home, a 24-hour operation, noise, light pollution, fuel
deliveries, car doors, music, late night activity, I'm not seeing compatibility there from my interpretation of our comprehensive plan that says that it should enhance the character of the community. Am I wrong when I say that
that's not compatible? >> I wouldn't say, Commissioner Britain, that you're wrong. You're going to have to find if the plan as submitted satisfies the comprehensive plan
and there is no restriction in code that prohibits what is being sought after, then competent, substantial evidence is established. And so you have the staff report that
tells you that this project is in line with the comprehensive plan. You have the staff's report that gives you no indication and mayor as with regard to restrictions as to the application that
is before you. You as the commission have the ability to make your motion. You're just going to have to determine what part what code or what part of the comprehensive plan and be very specific
to that as to what you're basing that on. Okay, I think I got it. Okay, that's it for me, Mayor. >> Any other questions for staff or the applicant before I close the public
hearing? Um, Miss Henson, >> I am very much struggling with that skyway entrance and the impact that can have
on that neighborhood, not just Skyway, but also Kentucky. Um, you know, when we did the, um, BP at French Avenue and 25th Street, we required a ride in
the right in right out there. No, you can't turn right. You have to left out to keep them from going into the neighborhood. >> But the difference there was when you pull in, the gas station's on your right and you could make the right in. and
then you can come back out here. If you come down Skyway, you can't get into the gas station unless you go down and make a U-turn or unless you plan ahead and go down Cypes in Kentucky.
And you know, I'm looking at a couple of our the policies on that. Um M151 and N52. Um thought there was another one
um about avoiding impacts of traffic on local res residential streets. Is there any way to mitigate that traffic coming in onto onto Skyway or using Kentucky?
It's a challenge because the roads are not ours. They're Simone County roads. So, they make the ultimate decision in what driveways are assigned and how they're used, whether they're right in right out, left and left out, right out only.
>> Well, and it's, you know, it's pretty close to the intersection, so I would be surprised if they allowed a a full intersection there. um especially with the amount of traffic that the you know neighbors have testified that they see on a day-to-day
basis with the school but like I said it's not ours we don't necessarily have the traffic counts on it we don't make the determination on that driveway but in terms of safety if there's a mobility and safety component or if there's an access management
component that the commission feels is is not met, then it doesn't meet the full strict scrutiny of the complaint. because if not for that issue, um you know, I think it will definitely
impact the neighborhood. It's 24 hours. I think that's um certainly going to have some effects on that neighborhood. You know, when I left for work this morning and drove by the 7-Eleven at um Lake Mary Boulevard and
um Ronald Reagan, you know, parking lot was full at 6:15 in the morning. So, okay. Right. Anyone have any other questions? Okay. Now, close the public hearing.
bring it to the commission for discussion. Um, this one is this is a hard one to me because you know this is designed for mixed use. Um,
but I'm concerned about the those specific impacts. >> Me too. I'm having a hard time justifying placing that directly at the entrance of the neighborhood. and I've heard what everybody had had to say.
Um, but to me it's still not compatible, but it's difficult to cite it exactly from our comprehensive plan. And when I find one FLU, then there's
something that kind of kicks that out. I don't know that we are ensuring safe and convenient on-site and off-site traffic flow. And I still see three sections of 1.1.1 that are applicable here,
particularly adversely affecting the livability of the area and the health and safety of the residents, not enhancing the character of the community, and demonstrating there's a need for the increase I don't see that. >> Commissioner Thomas, what what was that
one? FL what? >> 1.1.1 >> 1.1. >> There are multiple bullets there. >> Well, the um traffic flow is 1.1.6. >> FOU 1.1.6. >> I think we could agree that 117
subsection Q applies. talks about nuisance of Dayton standards. Yes, it is near the airport. Yes, there is noise because of that, but that's expected. >> Well, I think you can make the argument
that when you when you live in a subdivision that's right along Lake Mary Boulevard, you're going to have that, too. >> Okay. Okay. Well, somebody ready to make a motion. >> Ah, I am. We going I'm going to see. All
right. I move to deny ordinance number 20264860 based on the inconsistency with the city of Sanford comprehensive plan. The comprehens comprehensive plan requires that the new development be compatible with the surrounding land uses and not
adversely affect the livability of residential areas. In this case, the proposed 24-hour highintensity commercial use introduces noise, light, activity levels, traffic that are incompatible with the adjacent neighborhood, citing FLU 1.1.1 and FLU
1.1.6 of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan. >> You want to add M1.5 and 1.5.2 to that motion? >> Yes. >> Yes. Is there a second?
>> Second. >> Further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. All right. That will bring us to ordinance 4851,
>> an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, further amending the city of Sanford comprehensive plan for a total of 6.95 acres in size within the limits consisting of eight future land use amendments to assign a city future land
use designation equivalent to those in unincorporated Semino County at the time of annexation. Providing for the reszoning of real property located within the city limits. Amending future land use map. Providing for assignment
of the land use designation for the properties. Providing for adoption of maps by reference. providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions, providing for the adoption of maps and exhibits by reference, providing for ratification of prior
actions, providing for severability, providing for conflicts, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on March 5th, 2026, the city's planning and zoning commission voted unanimously to recommend that the city commissioner
adopt the ordinance to amend the comprehensive plan to modify the future land use map for eight properties totaling 6.95 acres. It is therefore staff recommendation city commission approve ordinance number 4851. Janet, this um comment you gave me, was
there any context to it? >> That is exactly as received. >> Okay. So, I think I understand the context. We did receive a a um comment on this this item and on D um from a representative of PIB land which has
some items in this and I think they were just making themselves available if we had questions. I'm not really sure. >> Understanding. Okay. So, if the council has questions, so just wanted to get that in there. Okay.
This is public hearing. One audience wish to speak to this item. See no one. I'll close the public hearing. Bring motion for action. >> Oh my god. Move to approve. There's nothing unusual in this one. Eileen, right? >> Second.
>> Okay. Um Alen and we've talked about this before a little bit, but is it possible to to make the to change the process so that we do these as we annex them rather than >> if an applicant is seeking to develop at
the time they annex like we've done tonight, two in a row, they can submit, apply for a comp plan amendment, and apply for a brezone all at the same time, but that's on the applicant because there's cost burden to that. We only do them intermittently because we
have to run the advertisements, we have to run the public hearings, we have to do the staff reports, we have to So the time burden on every annexation each time. >> Okay? So there would be a cost and time issue each one that we do. >> Every single annexation would require
what we just did. >> All right. >> So we do them in bulk. >> Okay. >> And understood >> how we end up here. Most people don't. It doesn't matter. they get annexed as single family. Um, of these, the only ones that were not annexed by joint planning agreement are three of them.
The rest of them were all annexed due to purchase of property, >> right? >> And they just went from one jurisdiction to the other. >> Okay. >> So, if it is a policy change we want to do, it will have a budget impact. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh, we had a motion, a second. Any
further discussion? All in favor? I >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. First reading ordinance 4852 an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida reszoning for a total of 6.95 acres in size within the city limits
providing for finding ings and intent. Providing for amendments to the zoning map. Providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions. Providing for the adoption of maps and exhibits by reference. Providing for ratification of prior actions. Providing
for severability. Providing for conflicts. Providing for non-odification and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, on March the 5th of 2026, the city's planning and zoning commission voted unanimously to recommend that the city
commission adopt an ordinance to reszone eight properties totaling 6.95 acres in order to assign the city zoning classification. It is therefore staff's recommendation, city commission adopt ordinance number 4852. Move this to the public hearing. Anyone
from the audience wish to speak to this item? >> Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Brand commission for action. Move to approve. >> Second. >> A motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? That's unanimously. That brings participation. I have two requests. Uh
Steven Snipes. Steve Snipes, 440 South Summerland Avenue. I'm sorry it's late. I won't say much, but you guys were talking about the opportunity zone at the work session, and I think you shouldn't make any decisions before there's input from
missing commissioners and maybe the public. Um, and I wanted to offer the idea that if you fix up the uh the marina some, our waterfront property might get more valuable. And last point
on that is a no decision is better than a bad decision. So no rush, please. And then one other thing is you're going to vote on something in a minute about rates for marina stuff >> and the thing in there had no rates, no
numbers. So I don't understand what you're about to vote on. >> Thank you. >> You are correct. They're um the rates are posted on the the website. I went I had to go look for them myself. >> I looked on the I couldn't find them either.
>> You have to go to the marina. They're on the marina website, not on the city website. >> Oh. >> And then I did go look at other marinas to to check our rates. So, um, and with regard to your comment about, um,
citizen input on that opportunity site, you know, when when we nix the deal with Heritage Park and we're looking at what we're going to do, we did do a uh, community survey and incorporated a lot of that. That's part of the reason that um, that we're looking at that uh,
>> passive part, but now you're actually talking about Thank you. >> Okay, Mr. Spore. Good evening, Chase 4, Bill 19 Park, South Park. I'm sorry.
Uh I'm not sure uh Commissioner Austin if you ever received the documentation that uh you requested for the city buildings, but in front of me I have the engineering review comments here that are from the public works approved dev site permit. My project has also received many of
these exact comments. The difference is I'm actually required to pay my engineers and revise my plans on every single one where the city apparently is not. Let me read a couple of them. Uh underneath their engineering and plan review item five uh talks about an
inspector certified by the state of Florida experience insulation maintenance erosion control. Their response city project not necessary. PW will inspect. Engineering plan review item 10. Add the
following note under the paving specifications requiring a prime coat in accordance with FDOT section blah blah blah blah blah. No, we will be doing our own paving engineering review item 15 sheet on sheet C50
add a table indicating solid waste water sewer and reclaimed water provider and required capacity. No. Engineering review item 16 include a note that the contractor is a copy of the city with all material testing to receive CO
city project. We'll be doing inspections and oversightes reviewing review uh engineering review item 19 and this item on my project has gone back and forth and I was told I cannot proceed without it. Please provide a lighting plan in accordance
with schedule F. any site lighting approved as part of this plan other than wall-mounted lights will require a separate building electrical permit. We will address this at a later time. And to be very clear, we'll address this
later. Is not an option I have ever been offered. If any private applicants submitted responses like these, they would been rejected. And then we would hear that the applicant refuses to work with the city, refuses to meet the standards,
probably do an unpermitted work, and they might be sleeping in the building. When the city does it, they get approved. When I applied for my fence permit, I was told that only half could be approved. When I asked why, I was informed that only half of the offense was included in the final adopted
conditions of the DO and that the remaining portion would be needed to be addressed independently at HPV. Now, after receiving unanimous approval from HPV, I've been informed that a DO will now be have to be revised to include the L offense language.
When these double standards are brought up, we're constantly met with sarcastic responses. I dug these up from just one meeting back in June. So to get the quality of growth we want, we are going to get there by lowering the quality of standards.
Is it worth getting a property opened and it look better as opposed to open and have it look to our standards? Is it worth lowering our standards? Do you like the standards you have? If you do, then you have to stick with the standards.
That statement would carry a lot more weight if the city followed its own rules. While we are being pushed to the brink trying to comply with requirements, the city skates through. The utility building has what appears to be outdoor storage that is not properly screened according to schedule E. Then
again, maybe they aren't even allowed to have outdoor storage and instead just fence in their parking for security. We don't know because it's not something we can verify easily because of the lack of process they were held to. The Jeff Triplet Center had the dumpster on grass next to street access, no ballards, no
reinforced space, no screening conditions that would never be approved for a private applicant. And yet development site permits are approved with responses like no, not necessary, maybe later. But at least this project had the decency to submit
anything at all. If these standards are truly important, if they are the benchmark for the quality, the city should be then leading by example and not exempting itself left and right. We should be the first to comply and not the first to wave and ignore. Selective
enforcement followed by being spoken down to, told we are we are not willing to work with staff and told we are the ones lacking documentation. You cannot demand compliance while exempting yourselves, then turn around
and paint your constituents as the problem. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I'm confused by this one. Um, Commissioner Britain, >> because I'm a resident >> as we all are. Okay. >> Okay.
Sheena Britain, 705 South Pole Meadow Avenue. Um, I have lived at my home in the historic district for 9 and a half years and I'm respectfully asking that the city commission consider implementing a no boat allowance along
the narrow streets of Palmetto Avenue. Most most of the residents in this area rely solely on street parking with vehicles lined on both sides of the road. This makes the street extremely tight and difficult to navigate, especially for larger vehicles. I have
personally had the truck that my father left me damaged twice, and I have witnessed multiple instances of large trucks and boats attempting to pass through, creating unsafe conditions and unnecessary risk for residents. So, I ask that you please take this into
consideration to help protect the safety and property of those that live in the historic district along Palm Meadow. Thank you. >> Thank you, Resident Britain. >> Resolution 3470. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is asking you to
adopt resolution 3470, which will serve to set consistent and fair management fees and rates for the Sanford Downtown Marina. >> Okay, questions or motion? >> Second. >> Motion second for discussion. All in favor?
>> I know that I found the rights. >> The Is Craig still here? There is a link from our website to the Marino website, isn't there? >> Okay. All right. All in favor? >> I oppose passionately. Resolution 3471. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is asking
commission to approve resolution 3471 to amend the budget with the procurement of construction management services for related to the future city hall renovations. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
>> I. Any opposed? Questionly. >> And that's it. Attorney attorney comment. City attorney comment. Excellent. >> Good evening. So, I just wanted to follow up. Uh I looked at the donation policy as I was charged to do at the
last meeting. The reason why the policy provides for one donation per year, there is a there's a plethora of opinions, attorney general opinions, where the recommendation is that it's only one donation per year to make sure
that should you be audited that everyone who has the ability to participate in the in the donation process has a fair and equitable opportunity to have access to those funds. which is why it's limited to a year. We can talk about
doing a fiscal year instead of a calendar year because I know there's some events that may fall outside of the fiscal year, but I would recommend that you continue on with the one donation per year. I would also uh suggest adding instead of just nonprofits, adding
nonprofits and also some educational groups because I know there's some schools that we that the mayor and city commissioners like to donate to. So we can add that language as well. >> So I mean it would make sense to add that language.
>> Okay. So will we bring that? >> I will send you that proposed language. Um but just wanted to get back with you on that. >> Okay. Any questions about that? >> If we got toward the end of the period. Um, I don't think I personally have any
concerns in my district, but if we got toward the end and commissioners still had budget left, >> it rolls over >> and everybody had exhausted all their other needs and they wanted to come back to the same person they had already given to, >> it would just roll over.
>> It would just roll over. >> Now, I'm not asking about the rollover. I'm just asking if So, their only choice would be to roll it over. They can't say, "Well, I still have money. we've gotten to the end of the year and this same organization that does something multiple times is asking again, we'd
still have to say no. >> That's how what I would recommend. The risk of um an audit, the risk of appearing as though certain groups are being favored, the risk of appearing as though um you're becoming a part of their budget.
>> Um these are all issues that are raised in those attorney general opinions. And so I would recommend limiting it to the one a year. I understand why. Okay. >> There would be a preference to do otherwise. >> I'm just exploring all possibilities of what might happen. >> Absolutely. >> Okay.
>> Is that so that's per the collegial body or is it per individual commissioner fund? >> It's per the collegial body. >> I'll skip that by for you. >> But Commissioner Thomas, do you understand about the rollover of the
funds? >> Okay. because I'm still working on mine from like three years ago. So, >> you probably got a little bit more than you. >> You probably got a little bit >> Nobody has more than you >> endless pot of money.
>> City clerk's report. >> I do not have any >> city manager report. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, uh you have scheduled a special work session for this Saturday and the um to Commissioner Britain and Commissioner Thomas um Miss Jones,
Elizabeth Jones did a presentation about how what you've listed as the agenda items tie into the strategic plan. I will get copies of that to you. There has been a suggestion that for Saturday's meeting, rather than meeting in the commission chambers, you meet in the railroad depot room. That is up to the commission.
>> Yes. Yes. To the railroad. To the railroad. Yes. Okay. >> That's Mr. Mayor. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, >> what about the new conference room? >> Right. No, so I can be looking out the window to hold.
>> You mean the classroom or the conference room? >> Well, across the room. >> Oh, there. That's >> Tony's. >> Yeah, let's we'll do it upstairs. Um, okay. Um, I wanted to bring up something before I go to the rest of the
commissioner report and um, attorney, we spoke about it briefly. Um, and the deputy chief is back there. Um, can we get clarification for all of us about when there's a special event, who
controls the space? >> Perfect. >> I didn't know where this question was going. Okay. So if >> and and if you have any recommended policy changes to clarify that. >> Yes, I do. If it's a special event then
those who um are running the special event for for essence they own that space and those who apply pay their application fee etc. they have the right to occupy that space. Likewise, it is
those that are putting on the event since they are acting as quasi owner of the space at that time. If they wanted to have someone trespass at that event, they would have the ability to contact law enforcement to have individuals trespass. Now, you still have first
amendment rights. People want to be out there giving out leaflets, etc. They have the ability to control the sidewalks. So, as you can tell, I'll give an example. art festival. It's in the middle of the street. So, you can designate spaces to allow people to
still exercise their First Amendment right, sidewalks, designated areas, etc. What I would recommend, and this is what I've seen, Stford does not have is a special event policy manual that tells you that has all that information in
there. What are your rights and obligations as someone who is running an event? what are your rights and obligations if you're not a participant where designated areas are and I would recommend that that type of policy be
adopted by the city. It erases these questions. It lets people know at the beginning what their rights are, where their spaces are to that extent. And a lot of municipalities have special event policies that they've adopted.
So during a special event um so you brought up the art festival so you use an example the road is their space by right does someone have to be can someone be on the sidewalk or they
have to be allowed to be on the sidewalk by the um event >> they have a right to have access to exercise that first amendment right and typically you are designating that on the sidewalk walls where the event is happening in the street.
>> Um, I'm glad you brought that up. Another example, say you have the marketplace. What if you have a candidate there that wants to collect petitions? >> Well, the marketplace is different
because that is a public event >> for which is open to the public. you can have a I would allow individuals to solicit handill etc because it's a public space people are not contracting for that space you can also have
designated areas that people know are the areas that are available to them so it's it's either way if you want to make it again have this policy you can set aside designated areas for that leaf letting
>> I think that's a very good idea then because I know there might be some candidates who are confused about where they can and cannot do that and in fact I was asked to leave that area when I was doing petition collections >> again I recommend you don't have a
policy that >> right I recommend having a policy and I can draft language and we can go through this process that would be great >> yeah Mr. Mayor, I think Mr. Commission's as Miss uh the city attorney has indicated that she's aware of them, then I would say that we will work with her
to come up with a policy for you to consider. >> And the other thing um we might consider is signage, >> city signage, >> clarifying what the rules are. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. You're
>> welcome, Commissioner Bren. Um, I have a suggestion for the uh golf cart issue, the concerns that Miss um Miss Higgins um brings up at every other meeting. Um,
and Mr. Bonapart, I would like permission to get with Chris Smith and SPD so that I can present it to the commission at a future work session. >> Yes. And commissioner, um, earlier you spoke as a resident. How
do you want to move forward with the not having boats? >> Well, that's up to SPD and the uh, streets department. I don't know. I I'm I'm speaking as one resident. I can't I didn't want to bring it as a commissioner because then that means I'm
speaking on behalf of everyone. That's a concern that I noticed when I was doing my yard cleaning and because my personal vehicle was hit. So that's why I spoke as a resident and not as Commissioner Britain. We will work on that. >> Okay.
Um and then um I don't need a vote from the commission but I guess just a consensus. Um um from last year Mr. Uh, Mayor Woodruff said that we need to inform the commission if we wanted to attend a conference and I would like to
attend the FBC LEO annual conference. Last year I attended in Houston. This year it is in Tampa, Florida. So, um, usually I go to Mr. Bonapart. Mr. Bonapart tells me to come to the commission. So, this is what I'm doing.
And that concludes the district one report. >> Okay. Thanks for letting us know, >> Commissioner Wiggins. Um, I have my community meeting again uh this upcoming Thursday at 6 o'clock at Westside Community Center, Dr. Vilman Westside Community Center. Uh, all are welcome. And then we'll be doing the food
giveaway at uh Bentley Wilson Park at 3 p.m. So, please let anyone know that you feel it needs food. Uh, we do 60 to 75 families. Thank you. >> Okay, Mr. Officer. Uh for those uh that may still be watching uh and are
interested in the marina, there was an update at the work session earlier available online. Um hopefully uh more communication on that matter will be coming out on the city's uh social media channels. Um the PACE
program, that's first item on my list. >> Well, too bad. >> There you go. You can have it. I know uh it was a well-intended policy uh and program implemented by the state
that apparently we are the only city left in Simo County that allows it. Um Jar Croll would like to come to workshop and discuss us not allowing it. Um, for for time purposes this evening, I I
don't believe uh everybody up here is aware of what the program is and all of that stuff. So perhaps it's something maybe you could uh look at scheduling with Mr. Croll at a future work session. Uh Mr. Phoneart,
>> um and if perhaps it's a program that's uh ran its course, I don't know. or or it's a program that our city is is vital to its residents. That's that's something we'll discuss at a later date when we get more information to everybody >> or when we get down to me.
>> I'm sorry. >> Or when we get to me. >> No, no, no, no. Um and then the other thing is uh I I would like us uh again to explain a little bit better what we're doing at the park.
um why why those trees had to be removed. Um and and there's apparently uh a thought out there that we've already spent millions of dollars on Lake Corolla, which I don't believe is true. Um and
and so I I just I know we tried to explain this project. I don't think we hit the mark. That's okay. We're not always going to hit the mark. Um but again um
it's not so much uh are we following our policies? Are we following the law? Are we doing XYZ that we're supposed to and legally permittable? It's the perception >> and we're constantly fighting the
perception and we're constantly in this city perceived to be doing something bad even when we know in our heart of hearts uh that all of us up here uh only want what's best for this city and and
truly lead with our hearts. I I believe that that case even for you Art and so um you laughing or crying? >> I sneezed. >> Oh, >> but I was laughing. >> You were laughing. Um, so, uh, I I would
just like us to to maybe, uh, maybe put another post out with a little bit more information, uh, and where the funding came from, um, and why why why that is being done, uh, to save our museum.
>> Okay. Um, and the steps that we've had to go through to get to this point, right, Mr. Smith? How long you've been working on that? >> Two projects, >> right? I know. I know. I How long you've been working on the the Lake Corolla
thing? 2006. >> Cor was a park project, but that wasn't mine. >> Okay. >> The the amphitheater was a rush project, >> right? >> That started put in our lab this past year. race to get everything done,
>> right? >> We're on a fast track project. >> Well, my memory uh must be wrong then because I remember you talking about Lake Corolla and how to fix it a couple years ago. Um >> it was actually Lake Cora was part of
the master plan of Fort Park back in 2004. >> Um >> right. Uh and and so the perception is is that we uh killed wildlife, we drain that body of water, etc., etc., etc. Uh
as I discussed earlier about the marina, we have to run everything through other departments. We have to follow the same rules developers and everybody else follows. Um and and I just uh I don't
think uh as as the resident pointed out earlier uh it's perceived that we don't follow our own rules and in some cases uh >> it might be kind of right. >> Uh so we we need to do a better job of
explaining when we do do it right. Um and I still think we need to take a look at that public utilities building on 1792. I think there is a landscape plan for that. >> There's landscaping coming for that.
>> That's it. >> All right, Mr. >> Uh, I got to attend Citizens Academy again this week. I finally had a schedule break so I could come in and see the students and poor Tony had to put up with me again. So, thank you for
allowing me to speak again. The classes are still great. I love to see the participation in there that uh happens in those courses. Um Main Street this week we talked about uh little plug for Main Street as you've heard from Mayor Woodruff. They are
doing a good job now. Uh I think they really are working hard to do their part when it comes to the financial part of it and part of the part of the part of the part. Um what will help there is if they can really f fulfill their desire
to to create this 77 army. We we hope to have 18 board members and then 77 additional people come in and join Main Street so they can advocate for what's good for San the city of Sanford. So a little shameless plug there. If you know anybody that uh has a little time and
they want to participate and help make Sanford better, uh join the army. you'll get a t-shirt among other things and be able to participate in volunteer events. Um anyway, um we had the Sanford Historical Society had their meeting
this month and thanks to Mary Snipes, I was invited to participate in that. It was at our golf course. So, believe it or not, there were a few things I didn't even know about that that we heard from Breijit and the historical society. So, that was a great event. Keep up the good
work there, Mary and team. Um, the legislative session I gave everybody on the day is just kind of some summary of what's been happening this year up in Tallahassee. It's not really the end of session because of the budget and
property taxes, but what I gave you was um just some bullet points on where we are with some of the legislation that does affect the city home rule, things that we here in the city care about. So, >> thank you for that. >> You're welcome. And speaking of property taxes, I think we we're so far we're
doing a good job on trying to really educate our citizens on the importance of property tax and what it does for you as residents based on what we can do as the city for you. And I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea because we have some creative people here. If we
take there's a slide that shows you the dollar bill and it breaks down what parts of that dollar represent what comes from property taxes. It's it's a great visual aid. And you know how we had the u pearl up here for a while? >> Maybe we do something like that dollar
bill and have it up in the commission chambers or somewhere in city hall. >> They use it at citizens academy. >> Do they do the finance does do that? So maybe we get a big version of that and have it here from now until election day if we
do end up having to have the voters vote on this. >> I asked for that uh recently I believe from Mr. phoneart. >> Yeah. >> Had to get with u David Johnson. I believe David Johnson has something. >> Okay. >> He has it for the county and he does
have it for the city. >> Great. Great. >> And that we have it and it should be printed and and displayed. >> It should be printed and displayed. I just I think we cannot do enough there to really make sure that every citizen understands what will happen
>> if bad legislation happens here. Uh, that's it for me. >> Okay. I want to go back to the PACE thing because we had the conversation a year or two ago and I thought we were headed towards doing away with it. Um,
because it's vague and the one of the reasons the tax collector doesn't like it is because there's no true enforcement mechanism. Um, he's just asked to do it. Um, I don't really I'm not sure we need him to come to the meeting to talk about it. I mean, he can
if if we want him to, but I know we it showed up this week because um it's being used to possibly confuse people with regards to um the CDBG program and
we post it there. So, I'm not sure why. Let's internally look at why did we not get rid of it. Okay. >> A year or two ago when we talked about it. >> What do we have to do to end it? >> Yeah. So, I don't think that needs to be
a big thing. And then, um, Mr. Redzac. Um, with regards to the marina, maybe the most efficient way to do this, if you would pull up the last letter that we sent to, um, our elected officials
and see if that needs if there's any additions or changes and we'll start from there and I'll get that information to um, Senator Moody. All right. Thank you. And we are adjourned. >> Chris, I see you.
>> Mr. Smith. >> Ah, Chris Smith, >> I need you. >> He quit. >> I desperately need you. >> Oh, wow. We still We're still recorded. >> I don't care.
>> I I need Mr. Smith. >> Okay. Um >> Mr. Smith. Paging. Mr. Smith. He's leaving us. He's going to go for the test of >> kids. They want to start with