--------- There's stuff there >> pretty much there. There's not a big gym. That's all that matters >> at this stage. That's as good as it's going to get today. >> Right. >> And sort of like this genus.
Right. >> There you are. that one of our expectation is that >> um when I heard that I was just like >> okay
>> I told my students I had to sit in a room with 13 attorneys Yeah, I could do yours in flash. >> We pulling them because we're doing them later or pulling them because we don't need to do >> one there at all. >> That was not one that I expected. That was the one I got in the day. The agenda
went into >> I need to talk to whoever sits here. >> Well, I just I don't know how they adjust this chair, but I don't like it. >> They mess with your car and somebody's messed with your
seat. >> Yeah. Where are my automatic buttons? >> Presets. county um building. They have signs all along. Do not adjust the chairs. >> I'm sure they have a lot of things that we don't. >> They have nicer chairs, too. >> Nicer chairs, prettier walls.
>> When I'm ever I'm there, I want to change the chair. >> Just for the hell, just for spite will not be here. >> And Commissioner Austin is running late. >> So,
We get duck tonight. I guess >> that makes sense. >> Yeah, I'm going to use both mics then. >> Um, so you shall I say that you are just you really need to have something on your phone. >> Yes. >> Oh, no. That sounds like I'm on the
toilet. >> I know it does. >> I'll just say >> I mean you can say I wasn't able to get away from from my school teacher and I wasn't get away from class or something like that. >> Or you just want to say I wasn't able to be there. Okay.
>> So, so you're doing that? >> Yes. I've been requested. >> Thank you. >> Vice must not be. He's working too. >> Perry had his knee surgery. >> So, I just have to hope they work. >> You're right. They're so old that
everything just kind of goes No. have a present for her. There she is. >> There she is. >> So I don't forget. >> Yeah. How are you? I'm good. >> Have a good weekend.
>> Yes. My sister's Did you put the question? >> Good, good, good. His name in church. Y they work. Oh, this is our friend Mo. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> These are much clearer than Is he hired a project manager? >> Has he hired a project manager? >> You just undo it as he goes. >> What happened?
>> Not in our house. Tracy, you said A and B, right? >> Okay. Open directly on top. We do now. >> Sorry y'all. >> Ready? >> You are forgiven. Got to work. Got to
eat. Got to work and got to eat. >> Tracy, you ready? >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay, we'll go and call to order the meeting of Sanford City Commission work session for Monday, November 10th, 2025. Um, Commissioner Wiggins will not
be here. Um, he just had knee replacement surgery and Commissioner Austin is running late but will be here soon. Mr. Mon Park. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission. The first item is the presentation by Mr. Tim Dolan of a request for waste pro to have a rate
increase. Mr. Dolan. Thank you. >> You Thanks, Mr. Dylan. >> Okay. Um My name is Tim Dolan. I live at 2011 East 10th Street, Sanford, Florida. Work for Waste Grow.
We're getting There we go. Perfect. Okay. Anyway, I'm before you today to make a request. Um, we're coming up towards the end of the term of our agreement. >> Hold the microphone up towards you. >> We're coming up near the end of the term of our agreement. Um, in the agreement
it says if a party shall deliver an extension notice to the other party, the party shall within 90 days from the date of the extension notice use good faith efforts to negotiate the terms and conditions of such renewal term of this agreement. I believe that is language sufficient to
let us be in this conversation. Um, this is an or just a little index of what the presentation's going to look like. We'll go through it slide by slide. Okay, so WasteBro, just a little history. We were founded in 2001,
operating in 12 states. We are the second largest private company in Central Florida. Um, we are privately owned overall 5,500 employees, 4,200 vehicles, and we're projected to be at 1.4 billion in revenue. So, we're we're
well established in the solid waste business. A little background on the history of this contract, and my apologies if some of this is repeat, but we took this contract over in 2007. There was a vendor here that was not meeting the city's needs, was not reacting to the
city's needs. We stepped in um took contract over. We've had it ever since. Um and just want to indicate that our commitment to the level of service and good service um is why we've been able to renew contracts and stay in the city.
economic partnership with Sanford. At our St. John's location, we've got 230 employees. 56 of those have Sanford addresses. The annual payroll is about 18 million. We pay close to $200,000 in property taxes on that site. Um, one of
the services we offer um for locals is this cohort program. It is basically I don't know it's not free but it's very very inexpensive maybe $100 few hundred dollars where we will train people to get their CDL licenses. Um we take a lot
of guys um there's a there's a lot of kids that may not have an education that that you know good strong work ethic is what they have to offer. We like we'll start guys on the back of the trucks but to see them get someplace else to help help them grow through their career. We
have this trucking school that we have um and that we try and grow our own drivers to um fill out our ranks. >> I like that. >> Um and then also the museum. Some of you have been there. Again, this is kind of a project of the owner of the business.
>> Um this is something neat for, you know, we can hold events. we can offer uh I had somebody contact me last week, you know, 50 501c3s to come in and we'll be able to offer this facility to folks to be able to hold events to be able to, you know, in some cases raise money. Um
but in other cases, it's just it's out there. We get visitors, random people. Um I get random questions on it. People just they love to bring their kids, love to crawl on the trucks. Um it's it's a it's a unique facility. um the city of Sanford contract
directly, I kind of gave you the overviews of um the company in general. So with the contract specifically um for the city of Sanford, there are 40 employees. These are 40 jobs that are headquartered in
the city of Sanford. Um that likely wouldn't be um if we weren't doing them. Um those are real salary ranges. Uh, basically we've got five admin, five mechanics, 12 commercial drivers, nine rear low drivers, nine helpers. And again, if I had to guess, the
average salary is up closer to that 105 than it is to the 40. Um, these are these are very good jobs. Caring for the communities. Um this is a list of a number of organizations that we've
participated in in the past that we've donated to that we've supported um whether directly or in kind. Um but one one step to go beyond this and as opposed to just you know giving something to somebody or writing a check
we're actually very involved. our uh division manager, Eric Saxton's on the Sanford Chamber uh board of directors. Um I was myself about a month ago in Goldsboro working on a habitat house that we uh
contributed to. Um member of the Elks Lodge 124, which I like raises raises money for children and veterans. um leadership seminal I'm currently involved with and our class project for the gold team is going to be doing a renovation over at recovery house and
helping that facility um make some upgrades for its for its residents um currently as you know I'm on the CRA um and then also three of the members of the CRA are now transitioning over to the main street board um just as a side
note uh they had a Dan Webster cleanup about two weeks ago on a Sunday about 65 of us got out there. Wastist pro sponsoring the event, i.e. garbage, you know, with pickers and bags and and clubs and those kinds of things. But,
uh, real su, really successful event. A lot more people showed up than we thought. That's going to be a monthly event. And again, that board's working towards uh, similar events and and things going on downtown. So, some some nice progress being made there.
And then of course the last one is uh I'm going through Citizens Academy. So I'll see you all at 7 o'clock tonight to get my diploma. Okay. Um one of the asks, and this is on the sheet that I handed out to you, this is language from the contract saying that
amendments can be made with mutual consent of parties. Um, but there's no clear language that seems to indicate amendments can be made mid-stream. Okay? They have to be tied to something. They have to be tied to an extension of the contract.
It's not very specific. Um, I would ask that amendment language be something that could be addressed at any point in time during the term of a contract. And and the reason I say that is this. First of all, both sides have to agree to amendments. Okay? And there are things
that are valuable or or worthy to both sides that you may not want to wait. The the example I'm going to give on this one is um and it's funny, I just got asked this question out in the audience. Currently, the city requires all residents to put their glass and bottles
and whatnot in one bin and their cardboard, paper products in a second bin. And then those two bins are supposed to be dumped into the back of a truck in two separate containers so that those materials don't coingle. And it used to be that you drive it to the transfer station and the paper would
go in one pile and the bottles would go in another pile. Well, they stopped doing that about two years ago, maybe longer, where now if you show up with that truck and you've got all that material nice and separated, it just all goes and gets dumped into the same pile. All right. Um, with modification
language and an agreement, that would be something we could approach and make an amendment where the residents get a benefit. They don't have to dual sort. um on the side of the road, my guys don't have to dual sort. And again, when we get to the land or when we get to the
transfer station, all of that material ends up in the same pile. So that's that that is a reason that amendment language is usually there and can be addressed during the term of an agreement. Rate increases, we've talked about this in the past, extraordinary rate
increases. Um if you look at this chart um if you notice in 2018 19 20 and 21 the CPIs were 2.2 1.5 2.3 1.6 we agreed as a concession to renew the contract in
2022 where we expected the CPI to be in the same range. Um it ended up at 7.87. We we're not asking for that. Um what we're asking for consideration on is in 2023, 2024, 2025 because the 4% cap,
there is a combined 6.13% um shortfall because of the caps on the CPI. Um all I'm really asking here for is a catchup to keep up with the CPI is the cost of doing business. And again, that's to keep trucks on the road,
that's to keep raises for employees, that's to hire people. This is to cover operational costs. Um, if that 6.313% went in, the city's rate would go from 1974 to 20 or to 2095.
And as you can see from the rates over on the right right side um that is still below Castleberry, Longwood Oto Seminal One, Seminal 2, Winter Springs. Uh, Castleberry is due for an increase in January. Longwood, Novito are due for
increases in October. Sanford would be due for one in June. Seminal area one and two would be due for one in January. And Winter Springs is due for one in February. So those would be the rates as they stand today. Now,
we'll get into the question and the proposal and and you know, we can talk about that 6.13% doesn't need to happen all at once. can be stretched over a period of time to ease the burden on the on the user.
Um, and this is just a suggestion where you could split it out into two years. Um, again, we can talk about that a little bit more in detail. Um, there is language in your city code. Such franchise agreement shall be
exclusive and the term may be for such number of years as deemed appropriate by the city commission and which terms may be extended from time to time deemed as appropriate by the city commission. Um I believe there is the ability in your city code to extend the contract. I'm not looking for an automatic extension.
I would ask that language get put in there giving both parties the option to get into an extension. This way you don't there's nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. we could get four years down the road. And if you guys decide you don't want to extend it, that's fine. But it does give the city the
option of being able to do that without it being forced out to bid. And then here at the end, um you know, we talked about different rates and comparing to different cities. This is just some favored nations language. Um,
this basically says that if I if I offer a better rates for the same services and uh terms and conditions of a contract to another municipality, then I would honor those rates in the city of Sanford. So, that's the last slide. Um
again this handout that I gave you guys um just to reiterate them the 6.13% is um is an an adjustment due to inflation due to the cap. Um we do ask um I would ask
that moving forward the cap be removed or at least raised. Um, the other thing that this is going to go away, I know we had some confusion in the past, thus coming and asking for landfill increases. Um, the landfill increase is actually higher than your current cap.
So, that would put me in a position where I would have to come back and ask again. I' I'd rather just put the cap over what the county has said they're going to do. Um, and this way I won't be coming back at all asking for disposal adjustments, if that makes any sense.
Okay, explain that again. >> So the you saw the part of the part of where we are now is because you know four years ago a 4% CPI cap was a good cap. A caps cap's meant there for a
while things went crazy were capped to 4%. 4% went from being 4% is the norm to probably 6% is the norm as far as what caps are seeing in contracts right now. All I'm saying is if we can get the cap raised, the CPI adjustment every year
will cover the landfill increase that's coming through that county's announced and we will not be back here asking for additional funds for the landfill increase if the cap can get raised. >> Okay. And then again, just the amendment
language and potential contract extension language. So, I just I'll open up for questions. >> Okay. Anybody have questions? >> I don't have questions. I I I agree with the rate adjustment. I think that um that you've provided the necessary
information um and and reasoning for it. I don't I don't know how we can literally afford it. Um, and I have no objection to the amendment and the modification of the language or the contract extension. Um, the cap though, however, I still think that it should
come before the commission even if you know the uh the county um is going to raise the landfill cost. I I still I mean that's just my opinion. It's up to the rest of the commission, but I'm not sure on the um
the 4% cap. So, um, the so this the county is county has come back with that they're going to have a 5% increase on their landfill for the next several years. Okay. And right now we're in at a 4% cap, which would mean I would have to
come and talk to you guys if the cap can get raised to be over the 5%. Now, we don't know if it's going to hit there. The other the other piece if if you take a back look at number of slides four years ago we were at 7% went to 6 point something 6 point something 5 point
something so I think we're all looking forward to the to the cost of living hopefully decreasing here or getting back into normal levels. So my my point on the on the taking the cap up doesn't put me in
a position later to where I've got to come back and say, "Wow, we're still at 4% and and it was 5 and a half and I'm and I'm getting cut short." Um it also that that question of the landfill price being separate. Um, you know, it was an
unusual cost of doing business back when we were requesting it because the county rates had not gone up in forever and a day because we know they're going up because they're anticipated going up. Those rates will just be built into the normal cost of living increase that
we we request every year. So, we won't have to come to you as a side request. So when you're when you're saying remove you're saying remove the cap of 4%. But you're not saying remove the cap period because what I'm what I'm asking is is like if you said remove the cap for 4% and make
it 5% but what if the county says 5.5%. You still got to come back to us anyway, right? >> Well, that that's I was asking for six >> six. Um and that and that way if we get and that's again that's very consistent with the numbers that are there and again that's that's for discussion.
>> Mh. >> Um but I think that that takes care of look I'll I'll whatever the county does if whatnot. Again my annual my annual request for just CPI would cover both the landfill and the
operating cost for that year. So we would not be coming back for a side >> a side ask. Okay. >> Do we know how much that would look like though in the numbers? >> Huh? If if we if they're in if they
increase the what what that number would look like if the county increased the landfill cost >> it's dollar 5% of 20. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it would if the county So, the count's already projected out what they're going to do and and
their projections are built into the numbers that I've given you. >> Okay? >> And if and look, if they came back and and jumped at a half a point, I'm not going to I'm not going to come back here and waste everybody's time for a half a point. >> Okay? >> So, 5% landfill would add. was
so 5% increase in landfill is not 5% increase on the total cost. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Correct. >> But you're saying with the landfill, it's still probably going to be around five or six% overall.
No, what what I'm saying what I'm saying is we're we're willing we're willing to roll the dice, so to speak, and just whatever the CPI whatever the government CPI comes in for garbage collection services, that's the CPI that we'd like to get.
So, if it if it comes in at it, listen, if it comes in at 3 and a half%. It's three and a half%. I'm not going to I'm not going to come back and say, "Well, it's only three and a half%. I know the landfill's five." That's That's just the chance I'm gonna have to take. >> But if it comes back at seven and a
half%, then you would want that CPI. >> Well, if we can >> I I just I want to clarify because previously the contract provided for CPI, but I believe not to exceed 4%. >> Correct. >> So rolling the dice, seeing that the CPI
has been generally increasing, um it would be a roll of the dice likely being 6 to 7%. Um, and I just want to make two things, one thing clear. There are two issues with regard to this contract. One has to do with the fact that there was
an extension, the third extension, which provided that the contract was to end in 2030. If you're seeking any increase prior to the expiration date of 2030, which I'm not sure if you are, that's
where that language of extraordinary circumstance comes in. So you can only seek an increase prior to the expiration of 2030 pursuant to section 13 of that contract if you come before the
commission and they deem at the deis that you've met the requirement of extraordinary circumstance. Now as to your next issue with regard to renewal. Yes, there's that language that you referred to in city code 86-73
that allows city commission from time to time to extend, but you have that third extension that says it's going to end on 2030. Also, that language doesn't negate section 287.057 subsection 13 Florida statutes that says
procurement contracts shall not exceed 5 years in duration. So it's it it would be my view and Miss Lindsay please can chime in at any time that after the expiration of 2030 that this contract would need to be rebid and not simply a
renewal notice to the third issue with regard to the landfill. It's my understanding and Mr. Johnson, please chime in. That prior to that amendment where the commissioners graciously agreed to include the
landfill, that was deemed cost to doing business. And so that was something that Waste Pro was just responsible for. I the city commission of course is going to have to deem whether they're going to continue on that route even at all. But I just wanted to put those three issues
out there. I'm confused by something you said because I thought the current extension expired in 2026. >> No, there is a fouryear the under the third extension contract you can do four
renewals up to 2030. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Right. Up but it but the it provides that it ends at that 2030. And so if there's any request for an increase prior to that expiration period, it
would have to be based upon the extraordinary language. But but again, it says if if I ask for an extension going into the 2026 to 2020 2030 term that good faith efforts to negotiate the
terms and conditions of such renewal term of this agreement. That's that's where in the past we've sat down and negotiated terms going into a new renewal term which does affect the price >> except you we've now extended this
5-year period. Again, what you're saying does not negate section 286 that provides a limitation on how many times contracts can be extended before they are they are rebid. So, first let me ask the first question for my
edification. So, are you seeking an increase prior to the full expiration of the agreement? When are you seeking this increase to take effect? >> Uh 2026. June 1st >> of 2026.
>> Yes. >> Right. >> I can't question at the end of the contract because there's nothing there's no time left on the contract >> except for the extension periods. Are there not extension periods pursuant to that third extension that allows it to go up to 2030.
>> Right. That's what we're talking about. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's an extension period that goes from 2026 to 2030, which again um there's the ability to negotiate the terms and conditions of that extension um for that period.
>> And so you're seeking from June of 2026 moving forward, that's the uh increases that you're seeking. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. And again based on based on board discussion if you know if those want to be smoothed out a little bit I'm open to that
conversation too. I.e. not like not all taken in one year maybe taken over a two-year period. Okay. First let me make sure we we're in agreement. The current contract expires in June
2026. Current extension. >> Yes. >> And so we're negotiating for an additional extension. >> Correct. >> And in negotiating that extension, it's my understanding um based on the original contract. I don't know if this
changed that we can negotiate the terms with the contract. >> That's my understanding. That's what's been done in the past. It expires in 2026 is the first extension period. >> That's the third extension period,
>> right? The third extension period. So that expires in 2026. And so when you're seeking a renewal, you're seeking a renewal for what duration? How many years are you seeking it for? >> The current terms of the contract, there's one four-year renewal that's written into the agreement.
>> One more. >> Right. But if you do that, that's again that's the concern with regard to 287. You will have extended the period of the contract so many times at some point this contract pursuant to 287 does need to be rebid. Miss Lindsay, can you please chime into this because I I'm
fully aware of this language. >> But that would be in 2030 if we give another extension, wouldn't it? >> No, you can't do another extension. >> You can't do another extension. The third the third extension already includes an extension through 2030 as
the final extension. >> Right, >> Miss Lindsay, please. >> Yes. Good afternoon. Um Florida statutes now states that you cannot um have a contract longer than 5 years in total. The original contracts three. You can
have two one-year renewals that took effect after this contract was first written. Um, so we do have to abide by that. But this contract does have one more extension to the 2030, which we can do, but we cannot do anything longer than that,
>> right? >> Which is what we're talking about today. >> Yeah. So, we're talking about an extension from 2026 to 2030. >> I believe he was asking in his presentation for a longer >> Oh, yeah. He wants us to to throw in that we can do another extension later.
I just want to get through this extension first and then we'll worry about >> Yes. >> about So >> that was my concern. >> Okay. We're talking about >> Okay. So we're talking about for right now an extension from 2026 to 2030 >> and the terms of that extension. >> That is correct.
>> Whether or not there can be another extension is a whole another discussion that will >> Yeah. Well, but included in in your presentation, which is why I was concerned about the additional >> four years that you were seeking. >> You know, I'm I'm I'm looking for
direction from from you all. So, I'm >> So, I my read of the contract is in 2030, we have to go to bid. >> Okay. >> So, I don't think we can change that. >> Yes. But we can but we can negotiate the terms of the the contract for these
last four years >> from 2026 onward. Okay. >> Yes. Correct. And then also with regard to the amendments that you're seeking, are you seeking the ability to amend beyond financial matters because that gives the city some
consistency to know that you won't be coming back with regard I I understand the amendment with regard to where I put my trash whether it's glass or plastic, >> but the consistency as to the rate and knowing during that amendment you won't be seeking
>> an amendment to rates. So, I don't I don't know what that may apply to at this point in time. Um, I just know it's common language in many of the other agreements I have. And when things like this come up to where you need to make some kind of change for instance the dual sort to the single stream recycling or if there's some other technological
thing that comes about again um that's more of a a fail safe that if something comes along there's a there's a mechanism to address it but I have no plans or no you know library full of stuff that that I want to pull out and
you know come running down here with big list of stuff that we want to amend. I mean that that's not the intention. That's not the plan. My my plan is once we get this piece financially worked out, I I really don't have any plans of coming back here and, you know, trying to ask for additional financial
compensation outside of the normal CPIs. >> But you would be but the language you would be agreeable or at least consider the language that the amendments would not go to financial matters. um >> because that was the whole purpose of
section 13 is to make sure that the city knew what its rates would be and that there would be no amendments absent extraordinary circumstances. So while the if we leave the language open as to amendments and don't put any restrictions on there year two you could
be coming back seeking an amendment to the rates which would be of issue of concern. Well, no. So, there wouldn't be there would be no asking for an amendment of a rate for the basic services and and pieces and parts to replace or the amendment language. And
the only reason I'm hesitating on the financial part is because the city may come back and say, for instance, hey, we want to do twice a week recycling. Okay? In which case, I would have to fire up more trucks, put out more bins. we would sit down and negotiate a financial, you
know, change to cover that service. Um, that's that's where there would be a financial piece is if both parties agreed that they wanted to elevate some level of service or change some level of service, but it would not me be it would not be me coming back on standard like
we've already agreed to do this. We already have the price in place. Um, and and again, amendments are always just they have to be agreed to by both parties. it's very easy for one party to say no and that goes for both parties involved.
So, so the intention is more like I said things like the dual sort re stream recycling. Um, if if the city came and approached and said they wanted to add a service or they wanted to add a technology or they wanted to add, you know, something to the contract, this
would just leave language open to get that conversation started. There are no amendments to financial matters except if the city was seeking additional services that would need to be included. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Oh, beyond extraordinary. >> Right. >> Beyond extraordinary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's that's not that's not what
I'm trying to make that a vehicle that I'm not trying to use that as a vehicle to come back and ask for rate increases. >> Okay. So, back to the landfill. Can that be separated out?
Can there be a CPI plus any pass through of landfill charges? >> Yes. >> I I brought that up with staff. If you so direct them to do that, that can easily be done. >> Okay. And then the >> and because I don't know the numbers,
but it seems like CPI over the whole thing may be different than CPI over operations and just pass through for landfill. >> It would be and and many there are there there's a couple ways to do it. You can either separate them out um where the
CPIs apply directly to the landfill and then the CPIs apply directly to the collection costs. That way if there's two different numbers, they affect equally. Um the other way that a lot of your fellow cities do it is the disposal bill just gets paid directly.
>> Um and then that way we're we're cut out of the the transaction on the disposal bill. The disposal you have a direct account and right now there you have a a direct bill that's being um that's being kept at the transfer station and a lot of history on it because you do get a
rebate um based on committing the uh three. you get $3 a ton right now as a rebate because you commit your solid waste to Semino County. So, those are numbers that track um it would be very easy to flip a switch and then change the rates based
on you guys paying the disposal directly and then us just handling the operating cost. I I brought that up with staff. I didn't know if they wanted to get into that or that would be direction to give them >> and I'm cons I would be concerned about
completely removing the CPI cap. Um I would consider sort of like what we had done with utilities that um there would be a cap but by vote of the commission we could
exceed that cap. Um but I would not leave want to leave it wide open. Okay. I I could I could live with that. >> So, and then the um the other part I'm okay with except you
know I I do tend to agree that we cannot go beyond one more extension. >> Any other questions or or comments? >> In this last section on contract extension, I'm I'm looking at the actual section three and it doesn't look that
different to me. So what's what's the real change here? >> Contract the number of extensions in the original contract. >> Oh, so this is omitting the up to four successive fouryear extensions, >> which is what our attorney is saying we
can't do anyway. >> Okay. Right. Anything else? Okay. So, can we Mr. Johnson, can you come up and see if
the rest of the commission agrees with with me and if you agree with me. Um, so it sounds like we're in agreement on the 6.13% increase, whether one year or spread over. Um,
we do not want to remove the cap, but we would consider removing the landfill fees from that calculation. >> I'm not that. Well, I wasn't sure about that, but if that makes sense. I I
wasn't really I'm still trying to figure out. So my question to you is is that something that you can take into your negotiation with them to sort of come up with
what's the best idea to lump it together to separate it into two things or to have us pay landfill fees directly and let you all figure out that and and bring it back to us rather than us pretending we know what's best at this point.
Just trying to put it all together. So, we're looking at giving we're keeping the cap on the CPI, correct? >> And then we're looking at potentially giving Waist Pro the 6 whatever percent increase. Correct.
>> So, what you saying is a part of your presentation, Tim, that as part of that 6.1% assuming you were to get that that you would not seek disposal costs. Is that what you >> said? >> Yes. So the I know I know you don't want an unlimited cap
on the CPI, but if there could be a higher cap on the CPI, then there I would not be coming back. We would not have to dis we would not have to separate disposal from um from collection. we could all loop. It could
all be up under one umbrella because the cap would be high enough to cover the landfill and the cap would be high enough to cover um the operational expense. >> And that's the 6% that's that's what >> if it was 6% cap flat, then I would not
be back in here when the landfill goes up next. I would not be back in here asking for that because that would be covered as Brent said as a normal operational expense. What I'm asking is y'all take a look at that and give us a recommendation.
>> Certainly we'll do. I >> mean, does that make sense? >> And so you're talking instead of lumping in the disposal cost with the 6% look at possibility of taking that as a separate >> Yeah. What's what's the best way to do that rather than us just picking a number up here?
>> Okay. We'll come back. >> Also, what I'm hearing is the consideration of the city taking on the disposal fee directly. Yeah. I mean, would that make sense? >> Yes, other cities do it. That's something we can also look at. I mean, for now, um, our intent, and of course,
we can still look at that, but our intent was to leave it the way it is until we go back out to bid in 2029 for 2030 services and then look at the city paying those costs directly versus having, okay, the contractor pay it. But we can look at it, >> but well, I but I want your
recommendation on how we should do it. >> We can do that. But but won't he have to in in between that time from 2026 to 2030, won't he have to pay those fees? >> Yes, if we Yes, he's going to have he's paying them now and they always have paid them. Um but what the mayor's asking is looking at us paying it so
that um we're fully responsible for any increases that happen at the landfill. Um which we can do that, but >> but I mean we're not he's not going to hide anything from us. Like why? Okay. So, why don't we just do the the the cap?
>> I I mean, if it's if it's if we're putting the cap at 6% and the county or whatever raises it to 5.5%, you're only doing the 5.5% increase. Correct. >> Correct. Well, actually, the So, this is where the
>> No. So, this is this is where I'm going out on a on a limb a little bit is I'm saying that we're going to go we're just going to go by the straight CPI. If the straight CPI comes in at 5.2%, we'll do 5.2% across the board. If the straight
CPI comes in at 4% and the county comes in at 5%, we're still going to take the 4% across the board. >> Okay. So, >> but that but the but that would be applied to the entire cost, not just operational or just landfill. >> Right. That that that's that would be if
we that would be if it stayed in this in the current circumstance that it is where everything was together. >> Okay. So then why are we adding more more stuff? Why why don't we just increase the the cap and let Waste Pro take care of that instead of us then saying, "Okay, then we'll bill and we'll
cover the cost of the um y'all know what I'm talking about. >> I'm just suggesting that staff take a look at this and give us a recommendation because they have more data than we do, >> right? it I
>> I mean I'm I'm okay if if it becomes that we do a cap to 6%. >> And that makes most sense. Okay. But I >> I'm just asking for a recommendation from our our staff >> on how we should do it. >> We can do that.
>> Right. >> Okay. And then um also we're here in agreement with that that if both of us agree we can modify um at any time. >> Mhm. Yes sir. >> Okay. >> All right.
>> All right. >> Does that modify at any time? Does that include the financial matters or only financial matters related to additional services? Did you want that language in there or >> Yeah, it sounded like you wanted to go toward making specific the language about financial and what it means and
what it doesn't mean. >> And if I'm not mistaken, that's primarily for owner requested services, owner requested additional services, >> right? >> But I mean, but it it it clearly covers that though. It says or for any reason as determined by the city commission.
That's what he's suggesting to add. >> Yeah. So, I'm just Yeah. So, >> yeah, >> I thought Miss Green was saying to add the information about like financial stuff but >> yeah, >> I guess you were explaining,
>> right? Okay. certain matters that you don't even have to address that during a certain period of contract you have the consistency of knowing what the rates are and there's no one coming before you waste pro coming before you and asking for an amendment you're budgeted you
know what your rates are going to be except for those services for which the city has asked for additional services then those issues would be brought before you >> yes ma'am >> so so really rather than saying not financial, it's for operational.
>> Yeah. >> I I can work with staff to draft that language. I just wanted to know if you were okay >> with that train of thought. That's good. >> Okay. Anything else? >> Anything else? >> Thank you, gentlemen.
>> All right. Thank you all for your time. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. was hoping for Paul Williams to get here. Oh, Dan Ping's here, though. Dan, is Paul still coming? Do you know? >> He is not. >> Okay, then we'll go on to Sanford Main
Street. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Next on the agenda is a request for additional funding for Main Street with assistant city manager Craig Brad. >> Good afternoon, mayor, city commissioners. Uh this was a request from last meeting to have a discussion on some possible addition additional
funding for the Sanford Main Street. I thought I'd give you a little background and a little information before the discussion. So we entered into a triparty agreement Sanford Main Street city and CRA to provide funding. I think it was in November of 2020
um for uh $48,000 24,000 from the city 24,000 from CRA. The CRA, as you know, is sun setting at the end of this year, December. So staff is working with the attorney's office to draft a new funding agreement. Um and we just need to fill
in some blanks. If you do um decide to um grant some additional funding to Sanford Main Street, fill in the blanks. We do have budgeted funds this year for 48,000. The city's going to pay the full cost of that. Um so just uh back in
June, I think it was June 9th, the commission approved some funding out of their commission accounts. uh I think it was about $11,000 to add to the additional funding. So that that's been paid and they make monthly installments. The the Main Street gives us a bill every month. We make monthly
installments plus that additional funding. So what staff would like to know and when we're staff is drafting the funding agreement, take it probably to the next commission meeting because it it's up in January. It'll be effective January 1st of 2026. We would just like to know if you'd like to grant
some additional funding to Sanford Main Street and where would that funding come come from because we do have a approved budget. So if you pulled that funding from somewhere it'd have to come from somewhere. So we'd like to know that too. So I'll leave it to the commission to discuss further. >> Okay. And it's not it's a continuation
of of the additional funding we did which comes to about $2,000 a month. So, I just want to clarify it's not it's not new additional funding. It's a continuation of the funding we the extra funding we gave them last year. Right.
Okay. So, um if y'all remember we Main Street was turning things around. They wanted some extra um the ability to hire um extra staffing to keep uh the desk man. Um, and we came up with 2,000 a
total of $11,000 which came close to $2,000 a month. >> Mhm. >> Um, and we had at that time we said that would take us through the end of the calendar year and then depending on how Main Street was doing, we would look at continuing that. Well, I think Main Street is um moving in the right
direction and I would like to give them some added time. I would say in this new agreement that we would we would clarify that this additional funding is for just one more year, not we're going to continue funding at this level because
the idea is Main Street needs to start raising some of their own money. >> Right. And are we going to have finally have that conversation about what the city would possibly contribute to the events being that the CRA is sunsetting
and the rising cost of city cost Could we do that before we decide to give to Main Street or you think that's something completely different? >> I think those are two conversations, but we're having some some discussion about
special events, but I'm not sure what it's about. Um, I can tell you that we had a meeting a week or two ago about looking for ways to reduce costs for um for special events. that >> that came up with some ideas >> and and that's fantastic and I'm looking
forward to you sharing that with us. But are are we having the conversation about what we what how we would fund events like what the CRA was doing? Because isn't there a certain amount a certain
amount of money that's coming back to the city from the CRA? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That I think has been budgeted. I don't know exactly what all is in that, but I was just saying when do we anticipate
having that discussion and then from having that discussion of what the city may or may not contribute, what guidelines we might have for those who might receive the funding or if we're going to do that at all. Because if we decide not to fund any events, then
maybe we could contribute a little bit more to Main Street. Or if we feel that the events are so significant and we need to have those because they boost, you know, the economy and so on and so forth and maybe we don't fund Main
Street. I would like to do them all, but being that we're short every, you know, in funding, I'm just wondering when when are we going to have that conversation and are we going to should we have that conversation before we decide to fund Main Street?
>> Well, not all of the funds the CRA had are coming back to the city. >> I know that, but I thought a percentage comes back, you know, >> and and we budgeted all of that. >> It's already been budgeted for next year. So, but a lot of you saying that
as a matter of fact, like I knew that. I'm not really sure. That's what I'm asking. So, then what would the city be willing to contribute or like you just said, you all had a meeting? I wasn't privy to that. So, I don't know what you
discussed. So, I'm just just trying to figure out what what are we going to do because events are really important. And the only reason I'm asking is maybe we can contribute a little bit more to Main Street or maybe we decide that maybe we back based on what we what we might be
able to assist our the promoters with is >> I see it as two separate discussions. >> Cool. >> And you know I've a couple of us has raised that idea. Um I'm not I think it's going to be very difficult to come up with a plan of how
we help fund events but I think that's another discussion. Um, the question for us now is, do we want to provide an extra $24,000 over the course of the next calendar year to Main Street so that they
continue what they've been doing for the past six months? >> Okay. To what expense? >> To what expense? The budget's already been set, >> right? Every time we come up with more uh funds needed, we say, "Well, we're
going to have to cut from here or there." So, to what expense is this 24,000 coming from? >> So, like I did before, I will contribute some from the mayor's um fund, whatever we call those things. Um, I think we can
look at um economic development and see if they um can we fund something out of that. >> Okay. If they you know, they're promotional. >> Okay. >> Can they provide some of the funding? Um maybe we don't come up with a whole
$24,000. Um are we allowed to ask Mr. Ping some questions or >> Yeah, he's going to get >> and economic development gets hit a lot. They're even in our consent agenda. um for for funding. They're like the new
place to to hit now is economic development. And is Brady comfortable with that? >> I I suspect I already know the answers to this, Dan, but is the is the additional funds uh being uh helpful?
Are you finding it helpful? Uh is the is the part-time person helping you uh succeed in in fulfilling your other missions? Absolutely. Um just to give you a little bit of
background um when the um original triparty agreement was set up in 2019 20 or 2020 whenever that was uh that Miss Hollerbeck was here and made that agreement. Um that was basically for my salary.
>> Uh didn't provide any additional funds for any extra work, >> right? Um, and that also doesn't allow me to do anything but work at the welcome center, >> right? >> Um, and so we're open seven days a week, 47 hours a week.
>> Um, and so having somebody to work on the weekends, spell me for a few hours during the week on different days. Today is a good example of it. Um uh my one part-time employee that thanks to your additional funding from back in
June um is actually on vacation this week. So I had to scramble had to shut the welcome center 30 minutes early. Okay, you know posted a sign, let everybody know that public bathrooms are still available in Artisan Square, but to be here so I could answer these sorts of questions. So having the additional
funding so I can have some staff to address these issues or uh we're for example right now we're working on a project in December called the Sanford Sweet Stroll. Um so it allowed me to get out Friday afternoon and start hitting the businesses. Tell them what the Sweet
Stroll is. Basically if you're familiar with a wine walk it's the same concept you go to East business but instead of getting a glass of wine you get a sweet treat. cookie, piece of fudge, brownie, hot cocoa, something like that. But it allows me to go do those things that um
my colleagues in other Main Street communities already do. So, >> okay. Uh I just wanted to make sure that the program is working before we discuss funding it. >> Well, it is working on on allowing me to get out and do actual Main Street duties.
Okay. Um, and I think to the mayor's, uh, earlier point, um, we've had some new leadership changes over the last 6 to9 months, um, uh, with the passing of, uh, Daniel Lewis. Um, and, uh, the new board has been extremely active. We
actually now have under the main street guidelines u you're supposed to have four committees focused on the four main points of uh of main street organization economic vitality design and
promotion. Sorry the blanket. So we actually have all four of those committee. In fact the design committee just met last week uh for the first time. So we're getting those organized. We're getting our auxiliary board, uh, the 77 Army organized that can help us
with some volunteer work, but also with some contributions, uh, and things like that. So, there's a lot more energy behind the Main Street Board now and some of the activities. Um, you're going to see a lot more out of Main Street in the coming years. So, >> okay. We had not gotten an update as to
whether the part-time person had been hired, if that was working or not. So yes, actually back in in uh June, right after I spoke at the commission meeting, u some of you may know Rosie Cannon. She worked at uh
drawing a blank on the part the law office that you uh there on Second Street. >> Uh longtime Sanford resident, graduated from Simol High School, uh knows Sanford inside and out. She's been a great addition. >> I have that too about her as well.
>> Very cool. And in fact, interestingly enough, I had a gentleman u a professor, not a professor, but a teacher from Oakidge High School, lives in Delona, teaches Spanish. He's looking for some part-time work. He stopped by uh this afternoon or this morning and dropped
off a resume. He's very interested in working as well. >> Good. >> And and I haven't even put out anything looking for for people this >> Okay. Two things. Maybe it would be helpful if um you could put together sort of a an update or report, a written
one um for next month or I mean by next month. >> Yeah, actually I I plan on doing some of that anyway. need to make a final report um to the CRA uh for their final meeting uh both for uh the monthly uh reports as
well as for um the sizzling summer campaign which that's another thing that the part-time employee helped out greatly with that. >> Okay. And and do you have a projection of when Main Street will start having an income stream? >> Uh well, we've got uh our first event,
we're still in the planning stages. um the uh Boots and Roots Country Music Festival uh March 7th is when we're slotting that. So although we're not expected to make a lot of money on that uh you know part of the process with these events is that you know you build
them up for two or three years get a good solid event before you start seeing real prop that the idea is that you break even or make a little bit of money. Um but I think in the next year we've also made some changes on the board as well in terms of board requirements. they're going to have to
start contributing money uh either >> from the company paid uh from the company uh donating money to Main Street or coming out of their pocket or raising money themselves. Um so we we actually have already started in that in in very
small ways but I expect that to pick up and and I can provide you with a full report in December about the the steps that we're taking to raise more money. >> Okay, >> Dan, I think I missed the last meeting. the main street meeting, but you have been already putting word out about
recruiting the 18 and the 77. >> Yes. >> So that will but there's we haven't put out a deadline for that saying join us by such. >> It's kind of an ongoing uh process. We're done, you know. So once we hit, the idea is that we will have uh 77 uh
members of the 77 army and it we'll just always keep a list so that when somebody decides not to participate one year that we've got somebody else that can step up into that >> plan is still $100 for each of them, right? >> Yes. $100 from each of them for that. And just to I don't know if I mentioned
it when I was here um back in June, but uh the idea is that uh Sanford was founded in 1877. We're going to have 18 board members that have to make a contribution of $2,000 a piece. Um and then we're also going, now we do have a
couple of exopicio members, uh Pamela Lynch, um Karen Appan from the county TDC. So we're obviously not expecting them to to make that contribution. So, um, but then in addition to that, >> employers to make contributions. >> I'm sorry. >> They should get their employers.
>> Yeah. Well, they they they already do. So, we don't we'd love to double dip, but I I think that would be frowned upon there. And then the 77 Army would be basically an auxiliary board, people that want to be involved in the
community. Um and and we would also look at it um as a way to staff our some of our committees, both our four main committees as well as any ad hoc committees or subcommittees and also serve as kind of a training ground or a
minor league for future board members. Have you thought or has the board thought much about the possibility just hypothetically that if the CRA funds go away, where would you have to reduce service or hours or anything that might
mean you're getting less money overall? Any planning when it comes to that? >> Uh, I'm not quite sure I understand your question. So, if you're getting 48 now and all of a sudden you find out you're only getting 24, has there been any thought about what
you would do in that? >> Well, actually, that would be a discussion for the city mission to have because that would mean we would have to close the welcome center for a certain number of hours. I want to get a little bit out, you know, I I think a little bit of this is semantics. you're not
exactly get for the past five years um except for this additional funding that you provided in June. You're basically paying Main Street to operate your welcome center >> for you. And I think if the city had their own employees paying the city rate
>> um with benefits and all of that, it's going to cost you a lot more than what it's costing you now with Main Street um >> on that. and and we agree that we need to do a better job as Main Street raising our own money, doing those things as well. But if if the 24,000
didn't come, then there would be if the CRA portion of the 24,000 didn't come, then we just wouldn't be able to operate >> rather than seven days a week, it would be >> okay. >> Three or four or whatever the numbers work out to on that. >> Okay. Thanks.
Okay. So, and obviously my recommendation is we we look for the money to do this. Um, you know, we may look for and I'll hold that back. Um,
you know, and >> look at economic development and see if that fits in with their promotion budget. Um, I would commit some from my the mayor fund if you and come back. You know, we need to um approve the new
agreement anyway. Um, and see how you know what funding is. I mean, basically come back and tell us what funding you can find to to augment um what we did. We we should have we were supposed to have done this during budget
and I'll take blame for that that we did not have that discussion. Mayor, did I hear 5,000 out of your individual commission account is what I heard earlier. Is that correct? >> So 19 and you're proposing I think an additional 20 24,000. >> It'd be 24 for the calendar year.
>> So we need to find 19,000 is what? >> Well, we're looking for >> for the No, because for the budget year, we only need to go through September. So we need 18,000 to get through September right? >> But the funding agreement will go from January to December.
>> Yeah. That's where I was when I was talking to um Pamela, you know, it was like, do we go calendar year or fiscal year? But we're going calendar year with the agreement because the CRA ends in December, >> I guess. >> So, however we work that out,
>> we can go fiscal year works for you all for budgeting purposes every year, >> whichever is easier for y'all. I mean, if we we go calendar year, we fund it through the fiscal year, saying we're going to fund it next fiscal year. Got >> and we take care of that when we do the
budget, >> right? Okay. >> We have someone standing up that want six of one, half a dozen of the other. To me, >> speaking of Pamela, >> I think it's whatever y'all come up with, whatever y'all decide is the easiest and most efficient way to handle it. >> I think the thing that we have to be concerned about is there's going to be
an impact to economic development if we take it out of their budget. It's not a very big budget. So Pamela can probably expand on it's going to affect your promotional or training, education, stuff like that. So she'd probably want to educate you on what's going to how it's going to impact economic development. >> I agree.
>> So if we're if we're looking to have some additional funds out of there, I think you need to be aware of that. >> This is every time we turn around, we're snatching out of economic development and I don't think that's right. >> It's not a very big budget. >> It's not. Well, then we'll look at the assistant
city manager's budget. >> Good afternoon. >> Um, first and foremost, I just want to say that remember the tiff once that goes away, the money proportionately goes back to the city and the county. So, the 48,000 would still be able to
comfortably be um funded. And that hasn't been accounted for like because the mayor was saying something about it been spent or >> I believe by Miss Lindsay it had shared that she anything that was recurring costs have been moved over into economic
development budget. So for example the trolley and shuttleban services that money has been moved over into promotional activities. So when you see that number and go wow it really grew that's part of it >> right. >> Yes ma'am. So the 48,000 the base part is in the budget.
>> Correct. >> Yeah. So we're just talking about the extra funding. >> Correct. >> And and you know, we certainly want to accommodate um your wishes and your requests and we would do our best to do so, but obviously that will be at a cost. We would have to give up some
other things possibly >> and we don't want to do that >> and that that's the only concern that we have. Um, >> so for the stamp sex, how much additional? So you're saying an additional 12 on top of that
>> for 12 months is 24. >> Correct. >> $2,000 per month. >> Yes. >> Which for the fiscal year is $18,000. For the calendar year is $24,000. >> That's correct. And in speaking with Miss Lindsay, whether the co the the way the agreement is currently structured
and we will be working with Miss Green as well on that um is regardless of whether it's fiscal year or calendar year, the way the contract is written, unless Miss Greens it differently is that um once the agreement is fully
executed, the um it will commence the following month. So, if the terms are discussed today and we have a contract for you in December to consider for approval, then it would go into effect January of 2026. But regardless, it
could go into effect February of 2026. But the sooner the better because right now there's a triparty agreement with one of the parties that will no longer be >> in place. So, there's two different issues. You need a new agreement regardless between
two parties. It's a matter of the terms. And so we have drafted something, but Miss Green is waiting on finalizing those numbers depending upon your terms. >> Well, District 4 will give you another thousand from their account. Okay.
>> And I know there's 10,000 that we didn't spend on the air show. That's true. >> I mean, we certainly can look at our budget and we would like to work with you all the best that we can on that. There's just some concerns. Our budget isn't a big budget to begin with.
>> I understand. I do have a question that seems out of left field a little bit, but it's a discussion that I've had with I know the mayor and and I've certainly had it with Miss Lynch um over the last couple of years. Where does the trolley
what what is that an economic development or is that >> it's an economic development? >> It's going to continue with it through economic development. One of the the things that I have suggested, and I'm not trying to take money out of anybody's pocket, but when
the service first started out as a van, first st started, it was to move people from the Sunrail station to downtown and back and forth so that the trolley was always at the Sunrail so you don't have a situation that we had two weeks ago
where a lady literally walked from the Sunrail to downtown because there was no trolley there. Um, she came in town to spend money. Um, and and I don't understand why the trolley's running on Saturday. Why? That's 52 Saturdays a
year basically for locals to ride the trolley for fun. And I'm not saying I'm I'm not trying to to bang on locals, but if we're trying to sharpen our pencils and get to where we need to get, that that
seems like a cost that's doesn't meet the original intent of the van trolley service. >> Well, according to the agreement, if I may, we certainly can always look at the routes and update them, including different stops, like when we added the one stop over a few years ago in
Georgetown. And um the only my understanding for Saturday and you do raise an excellent point, Mr. Ping, but there are times also where if there's events and things downtown, people will park at that stop specifically and park their car there to ride the trolley back and forth.
>> Could we look at um wrership on Saturday? >> Absolutely. >> And actual real writership and not people because I know how those numbers work. If I pick it up at Magnolia Square, get dropped off on Sanford Avenue. That's one. But then when I get
back on Yeah. >> Or if I go to a couple of different places, that inflates the numbers a little bit. >> I don't know there's a way to track. >> We actually have a breakdown stop by stop. So that should not be an issue. We can see where someone's getting on and off >> because I really, and we're getting way off talking. I'm sorry. I got down the
rabbit hole. But the real number should be how many people are we picking up at the Sunray station and how many people are we dropping off at the Sun Rail station. And that's what it should have stayed that way. I never understood us going into the Georgetown area and it going through the historic district at all either. I just
>> And I ap I famous for going down rabbit holes, so I apologize. >> Okay. Do y'all have enough to go on? >> We think so. This is what we'll do, mayor. We'll we'll come back um hopefully at the December meeting with the funding agreement and outline some of those financial impacts out of econ
so you know the impacts and unless anyone other commissioners are feeling generous with their funds we'll try to get as much out of ED as we can and then we'll present the funding agreement and those financial impacts coming out ED's budget for your all's consideration. >> I mean if we have to we can always scale
back how many additional months we'll do. >> Yeah. And then we'll run it from January to the end of September if you guys are comfortable with that. And then it aligns with the fiscal year. Is that good? Okay. >> Can we also have a like a small update on CRA just the the the sun setting of
it and just just to give us a brief little, you know, exit information of, you know, the final projects and stuff like that. I don't know if they were ever coming planning on coming to the commission to do a final presentation. Um,
but is that is is is that possible? >> Absolutely, we would be very happy to do so. In fact, I'm in the process of putting together a PowerPoint with some before and after pictures. >> I was going to say say that I would like to see also what over the what CRA is 20
something years >> 30. >> Okay. I would like to see like a a full presentation of what they've done, which I know they've done amazing stuff, but it's good to have on record of what the CRA did for the CRA district. >> Absolutely. >> As as they sunset, >> I'll be more than happy to do that. In
fact, that's in process. And on December 3rd, our final closeout meeting, we will have a after event with a gathering where people are going to be invited, past and current members as well as all of you and some key people will be invited to that.
>> Well, then I can just attend that then. >> Okay. >> Okay, cool. >> But we will have that there. I'm going to work with it to have something downstairs where that will show in a loop. Okay. >> So, first Craig, I'll I'll have a number for you by the end of the night.
If I can get an update on how many pennies I have left by wonderful Miss Lindsay. Well, >> if you don't have any, you can get them from Commissioner Wiggins. He's >> right. He's not even here. I'll I'll spend >> Actually, when he's not here, we can just >> He's not here with money. >> That's right. Let's do it. >> Uh add 10,000 from Commissioner Wiggins
>> since he has unlimited finance. >> It's unlimited. >> That's like if you're not there at the meeting, they volunteer you to be chairman right? >> We're volunteering his money. >> Yeah. Mr. Mayor, question just to make sure. Are you asking for the CRA to make a presentation to the city at the December meeting so that you have it on
the record of what they've accomplished? >> I would say if we have it at the m here, we would do it in January. >> Rather than December, >> that's fine with me. >> But great way to start if we can all go to the meeting on the 3,
>> but maybe a um Oh, no. An abbreviated one I think would be good and I would actually do it at the 7 o'clock meeting um rather than the work session maybe as a >> January yeah as a presentation at the beginning of the meeting. >> Okay. So the January 1 meeting first
meeting in January at the regular meeting have a presentation from the CRA. >> Yeah, I think that's good. >> I'll be right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Super. >> So I do have a couple of questions just so I know what my um responsibilities are. Are you guys voting tonight or will
that be in December? >> They'll bring an agreement back to us probably in the December meeting. Okay. Is what our our goal is. >> And and I I'll touch base with Craig on that. The second thing is um you want kind of an overview of where Main Street
is. You had mentioned in December, but per our agreement, I'm supposed to give an annual report in January. Do you want me to make that annual report in December or hold off? I I wouldn't mind having a written summary. >> Okay. >> For December. >> Okay.
>> But we'll have you give the report in January. >> All right. Yeah, I can do that. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Dan. >> Okay. >> Okay. Mr. Mayor Lauria. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, man commissioner, next item is the city's proposal for a public
a poet laurate program. And with that, Miss Holder. Well, mayor commissioners, I am proud to present a potential poet laurate program for the city of Sanford, please. When we say or you see my city
beautiful, have you ever asked why? Because visitors might say palm trees have voices of their own. Speak for themselves amidst the cotton candy day sky and a rainbow lit night sky. Is it also true for you who reside between
twix the magical water rides in the cool shadow of the Orlando eye? Caribbean roots plant well in this soil. They say my city beautiful, but why? Because date night at the Robinson cocktail vibes. Goff's ice
cream still survives. Jeremiah's I got to have because leanera and meanderas and reyes on orange a at mach I like to meet or maybe it's me. I like to eat roti shops to seafood station or sister honeys for a treat. We welcome the retirees from the north and from the
west. Celebrate arts in the street from immersed to fusionfest because the world comes to us. We don't seek validity. Orlando's way too cool to complain about humidity. Wet and wild will never forget you. Slide down Bombay. They loos you. We don't forget. We honor the past while
still embracing the future. Because innovations in our veins because magic, because lions, because growth comes with the sound of the sunrail over the iron. An electrifying city. Resilience could be a tagline. Because the long lines to give. Because our pulse never flatline.
Because beauty is beyond visual. When you feel it, you can't deny. So when we say or you see my city beautiful, just remember the reasons why. >> That was Shod welcome a former city of
Orlando poet laurette. And I just wanted to share that with you for inspiration. So uh we in for example we were inspired that by the success of Orlando the city of Orlando which has had a poet laurate in place for a very long time and
they're on their third now. Um and it's an example of how the city can celebrate literacy art the arts engage the community and elevate its cultural profile. So by establishing our own poet laurate here at the city of Sanford, we
can build on this momentum, this regional momentum, bringing the power of poetry directly to our residents while becoming the first city in Seino County to do so. This is an opportunity for Sanford to be both inspired and pioneering, learning from Orlando's model while creating a unique program
that reflects our own history, diversity, and community spirit. So we're more than streets and buildings, a community of stories, voices, and dreams. Every resident contributes to the rich tapestry of our city. And through art, those stories
come alive. A poet laurate will help us capture our shared experiences, celebrate our history, inspire a brighter future for everyone. Poetry connects us, bridges differences, and reminds us that government, community, and culture are all working together to
make lives better for all. By establishing a poet laurate, we establish the literary arts, preserve our stories, and give our community a platform for expression, reflection, and connection. Poetry is not just words on a page. It's a living experience that
educates, inspires, and heals. Through spoken word and performance, we can transform the way residents of all ages experience our city's culture and history. The state of Florida has had a poet laurate since 1929. The first one was appointed Franklin N. Wood. The
position was initially a lifetime unpaid appointment. In 19 1980, government Governor Bob Graham appointed Dr. Edund Skellings as poet laurate following a national selection. He's serving until his passing in 2012. In 2015, Governor
Rick Scott appointed Peter Mink as Florida's poet lawyer. 2014, the po the Florida legislature passed House Bill 513, establishing a four-year term for the position with the option for reappoint. Peter Mankey continues to serve as Florida's poet laurate. Currently, his
work has been featured in prominent publications such as The Atlantic, The New Yorker, and The Nation. Throughout his tenure, Mankey has been an advocate for poetry in education and his public life. So your brain on art research such as
your brain on art by Susan Mag Salmon and Ivy Ross shows that engaging with art including poetry benefits the brain and nervous system supporting emotional regulation, empathy and social cohes cohesion. These benefits align with Sford's ongoing efforts to enhance civic
pride, mental well-being, and inclusivity through art and culture. Purpose and vision. The city of Sanford poet laurate program celebrates the power of spoken word and performance poetry as a brid bridge between art, culture, education and community
connection. Poetry helps communities process emotions, validate difficult conversations, and celebrate identity and belonging. Why the city of Sanford? Well, why not? Sanford's vibrant arts community, rich cultural diversity, and ongoing public
art initiatives make it an ideal city to champion the literary arts. A poet laurate will amplify the city's voice and preserve its stories, foster unity and connection across neighborhoods, inspire residents through education, workshops, and performance.
The framework, the role, so serve as Sanford's literary ambassador, promoting community engagement, education, and civic pride through poetry. The responsibilities include composing three original poems annually
reflecting Sanford's history, culture, and community spirit. Facilitate four community-based poetry activities per year with at least one in each commission district. The contract would be an annual renewable potentially administered by
well in partnership with United Arts of Central Florida piggybacking on the city of Orlando's po laureate agreement for structure and efficiency. how the selection process would work. A panel of experts reviews the applications and recommends the top three finalists for the mayor's
selection or the commission. This is all up for discussion. Potential panel composition. Semino State College our own museum city historian. Semino County Library System, the University of Central Florida, local literary or cultural leaders, a public art
commission board member. eligibility eligibility eligibility >> eligibility. Um, applicants must be a documented resident of Sanford or Semino County for at least one year prior to application. Reside in Sanford or Semino County for
at least six months uh of each year during their term. Have established ties to the city and a strong interest in serving the community. Show evidence of achievement in poetry, including substantial publications in books, literary magazines, anthologies, or reputable digital media. have received
significant recognition or awards for contributions to poetry or literary arts, demonstrate strong public speaking, performance, and community engagement skills. Funding and deliverables. The stipen would potentially be 2500 annually sourced from the Sanford Public Art Commission
budget. Uh three original poems annually with rights shared with the city of public presentation and archival use. four poetry activities per year, one in each commission district, and participation in city sponsored cultural and community events.
The communications and rollout would include uh developing of course a comprehensive communications plan to announce and promote the poet laurate public launch events, media production, promotion, social media, and collaboration with community organizations. Here's the timeline. This is just
totally proposed because we're presenting it to the city commission and the public art commission are going to have more discussion about it. But as you can see here, a program approval by the commission, application period, application deadline, reviewing and scoring, mayor selection and
contract execution, public announcement may March 15th for first poetry activity in district 1, April 2026. subsequent district activities through May and then program review and renewal next year, October 2026.
This program will promote literacy, creativity, and cultural inclusivity inclusivity across our city, preserve and amplify Sanford's living history through poetry, encourage civic engagement through storytelling and performance, position Sanford as a regional leader in arts and culture
innovation. So in conclusion, by estab establishing a poet laurate, Sanford becomes a trailblazer in Semino County, investing in the voices, creativity, and cultural richness of our community. It's a commitment to storytelling, inclusivity, and civic pride. A way to celebrate who
we are, honor our past, and inspire a brighter future for all residents. Poetry becomes more than art. It becomes a bridge connecting the city, its government, and its people, guiding Sford forward, one story at a time.
So that is the presentation. Um and it's an idea, a concept that's been a reality city in Orlando. And so it would be housed under the public art commission umbrella. Um it's been presented to the
public art commissioners. Cassandra Williams, the public art I have my there's three public art commissioners here today actually. Kim House, Virginia Poe, and Cassandra Williams, who is the contact. She's working with me on this project.
And so, are there any questions about this? Lisa, I >> So, questions? >> Yes. I Well, I love how you all are thinking outside of the box, and I absolutely love everything that the Sanford Art Commission is is is doing, but for me representing District One,
I'm going to say absolutely not. The reason why is I think that we should stay focused on the tasks that are working for the city of Sanford. The arts commission, what they're doing is phenomenal. I say it all the time. What we're seeing from that commission moving
so swiftly and making such a change and seeing tangible things that we're able to see. I I so appreciate that. I think the communications department, art commission, which they're their own separate commission. I'm not telling them what to do. Let's just focus on,
you know, especially for the communications department. Let's focus on the city of cities academy assisting the um the arts commission. Um I love what you all were doing with the displays with the employees. Let's let's
let's you know focus on like what we used to do in the past with the MLK uh display. That has kind of gone away. We've got now the the additional spaces um downstairs. I love the citizens academy. Um, I just think right now our
biggest focus needs to be on communication to the public and how we can make sure that we are making that top tier. Not saying that this project isn't good, Lisa. I'm just saying we we've got some things that that works.
instead of adding on to it, let's let's take another year or so to make sure that we're properly communicating with our residents and shining on what we are doing and using
what we do have like our our new um our new lobby and and and showcasing things. I don't want to add anything to the plate. Um, when you're talking about the the poetry, you did poetry before and it opened it up to residents. I remember
writing my own poem, uh, Ruby Slippers, and I love being a part of that as an employee and as a resident of Sanford. Um, not saying that it's not a good idea. I just think we need another year to just be focused on what we have at hand instead of adding another task to
it. >> Anybody else? If I may comment, um, Cassandra, and I'm with the public arts commission, and I understand, um, somewhat of, um, your point of view, but
one thing that we can look at, especially with arts, um, communications is a two-way street. There are opportunities here through a program like this that will allow the
community to communicate in a positive manner, to be involved in a posit positive manner rather than waiting for things to come down and then try to figure out quickly
whether it's an agreement or disagreement or whether they understand it or whether they don't understand If the community has an opportunity to be proactive as well as we're being
proactive, then it it could u put out fires before they come become fires. And so, um, I think we've done a lot of due diligence that gave a lot of positive. I
can't speak to what was done um prior or how it was done prior, but in doing our due diligence um and speaking with the teams in Orlando and speaking with the LAR programs,
this was a win-win situation and we see it as another way. I can't speak for arts and and the um chairperson for the arts commission is here.
>> Um but when we say um art improves everyone enriches everyone. There's a lot of different kinds of art and if we're focusing on an art community
then it's a good time to look at different kinds of art so that people get an appreciation for art not just an appreciation for painting not just an appreciation for sculpture but an appreciation for art and what art is.
Therefore, we can later roll out all types of art and the city that we're serving understands what art is. And a lot of times there's not that understanding. So, I agree with you on that that we do need to communicate more
with the community as to what art is and what we're doing and why we're doing it, but then offering them the opportunity to be a part of it. Well, my my thing isn't necessarily saying that we need to communicate more with the people about
art. We need to communicate more about what's happening within the city of Sanford. And I just don't think that we need to add anything more to communications. We need to polish what communications is doing before we say let's step out and add something else because when I'm looking at that
timeline and all of the stuff that goes into that, we I mean half of that was written by ChatGpt. We haven't taken the the dashes out. We need to polish some of that stuff first before we start adding on to it. It has nothing to do with the art commission. I love what you
guys are doing and I think it's an added thing and I hear everything that you're saying. >> I'm saying for the communications office, we got to polish some things, make sure that we're we let's stay focused for another year on the things that we have going and before we add
more to it. I'm just one one commissioner though. However, my my other commissioners might feel something different. I just I we we get we got two people in communications, a lot of communicating that has to be done and I just don't want to add anything to it
right now. >> I understand clearly. >> Other comments? I think it's a great public art initiative. Um we need to expand our public art in this city. Um, this is the first opportunity we've had
where it it limits it to Sanford residents uh and Simo County residents. Everybody complains about a lot of the projects we do are not local artist. This is a chance for local artists uh of the literature kind uh to to contribute
and uh and and be a part of a program. Uh, so I I think it's great and uh it it's a great new uh mission for the public art commission to to take on. >> Mr. Thomas, >> I obviously love anything that has to do
with art, whether whatever kind it is. I like the idea that this is going to combine the fact that we're using poetry and spoken word and talking about the history of the city. And I think that's critical when you come down to judging
who the participants are is that those spoken words have to do with the history. >> However, I do agree with Commissioner Britain on where we are right now. There's a lot going on. Not all of it is positive. And
we have a fine line, I think, here between doing all these wonderful things and reaching this tipping point of people in the public saying, why are you doing all I know we can do multiple things at one time. That's not an issue. But
we do just have not long into this phase of having an additional person helping you, Lisa. And I think if given another year to really flesh out how we're improving things when it comes to communication >> would not be a bad idea and give you the
time to flesh out a little more what this poet laurate program looks like so that we can hit the ground running make it a huge success which I know it will be um but at the same time try and get past things that might get in the way of
making it a success. You know what I mean? I mean, in other words, I kind of agree with timing maybe isn't the best. Do it right away. >> I was not sold on this until you had the video of the um public. >> Yeah, we could get someone like that.
That is really cool. >> You know, now I now I see your vision. >> Oh, I didn't I didn't get it earlier. And >> I think your your timeline is a little aggressive maybe >> and I think you sort of pointed that out since you you know
>> have today is the the starting point. Um and any way even if we were approving it today I would say taking applications announcing and taking applications in December is not the best way to go. Um, I also want to
at least put some more thought into or have some discussion about whether this is something we pay a $2,500 stipen for. Um, and that's a discussion we can have as we move along. But, um, you know, I I
think it's I think it could be a great idea. I'm not sure um once it gets going how much at a time it's going to take um of yours and Nico's >> um it seems like you know three events and well seven total events
>> um and you're pushing that stuff out anyway. >> Yeah. >> Um but I >> when you first presented this to me and suggested it I'm like okay sounds I'm I'm sold on it now. >> So I I I see I see the value. um with
talking about Sanford. Yeah. >> In this way. >> So for me, I think it's worth moving forward. >> Yeah. Let's make the timing right. So don't lose steam on it. >> As far as a stipen goes, mayor, every every uh project they do has a stipen
uh basically tied to it. Good point. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And I I just wanted to >> well and and I was wrestling with myself because you know we should pay artists >> you know I I I understand that too.
>> I the great part of the program is is it uh it it lists that hey we want you to do some things during the year for this >> stipen right. >> Um if it was just a competition then we
would call it an award. Yeah. >> Yeah. The engagements plus combining that with the history of the city, >> those are big selling points. >> Yes. And and I would just like to point out that we did win a communications award several year two years, three years in a row, but um this
communications office had an office of one for 14 years >> just until a city of our size until we were able to have a digital media specialist. So, >> well, wait a minute. I don't think you're doing twice as much as you were doing. So, Nico needs to step up a
little. >> And I've always wanted to do new projects and with the support of the city manager um just looking to move Sanford into not doing the same old same old that we have been doing so to speak
that we get criticized for. And so, um >> but you have added new things in the last six months. >> I I can't help it. Yes. the Sanford Sound Stage and all of that which is another project and so we don't plan on stopping and our communications is with
the addition of >> Nico has gone out and um I think we're doing a really good job and you are doing a good job and I don't want you to stop. I think it's a phenomenal thing. I'm saying right now it doesn't look good for Sanford where we are and
perception is everything. So, I just want us to clean up some things. Not trying to stop you. And I don't I think that it's great. Not one time did I say it's not great or that you guys aren't doing your job. I'm saying right now Stanford does not have a good look. And
that's just what it is. Right. So, we just want to make sure that we polish up our communications, polish up what we have right now before we jump to something else. You already said you have two and you were doing a lot 14 years. I've been right there with you. >> Totally get that. I just want to make
sure before we add anything else to our plate, let's make sure that, you know, our turkey shines pretty good before we start adding the other stuff. That's that that's it. And if y'all come back with something else and the the tide changes, I'm all for it. But right now,
I don't represent Sheena. I represent District One. District One is not happy. >> Mr. Mayor Commission's guidance to staff, >> can you through put the um >> requirements back up?
>> Did you uh did you say that this hasn't been finalized and vetted by the pack? Well, that could be that's a that's a little >> we gota >> we have to look at our our minutes. But um no, seriously, the public art
commissioners has have assigned Cassandra to work with me now. We've talked about this for probably several months. >> This is a rough draft. It has >> Yes, it's a rough draft. It's I mean, but even before this was presented, the city manager asked me to talk to the
public art commission and I did that immediately. And so it's been talked about and talked about much so that like I said, Cassandra is my point person on the board because we have several projects going on. Um
>> but this is all a uh framework I should say for the city of Sanford to decide what they want to do. We spent a good hour with the city of Orlando talking with their um special assistant to the mayor, Mayor Dyer and
his and her communications person. And this is basically their model and on a scaled down version of it. And um and so um they work with United Arts of Central
Florida because they um they are funding they Orlando funds the United Arts. So they allow them to use their website for applications and things like that. >> All right. So the reason I wanted this come back up is the and I know that
you're working through this so this is just an opinion from me. Um the next to the last one have received significant recognition. Yeah. Or awards for contributions. >> Um >> that could be tough limiter >> for a nar what I think is a fairly
narrow pool that we're looking in Sanford and Semino County. That may be um a bar too high at this point. And then can we get to the timeline? >> So just food for thought on that. Um yeah, this is
>> yeah, you know, if you bumped this to, you know, January 10 or whatever January is or maybe the second sometime in January and just move all of that along. Um Commissioner Britain left. Um
you know, I I feel, you know, we keep doing good stuff. Will there always be things that people complain about in the city of Sanford? Yes. Will there always be things that we need to fix? Yes. Should there always be things we're looking to do that are better?
>> Yes. So, I would like to move this along. >> I think we kick it off in February because that's when a lot of us put out our best poetry. >> Okay. >> Everybody that's a good start. >> Do you not
>> Mr. Wondo? Do you not? >> Mr. >> Happy February. Bentley, >> we're going to have No, but the reason for the four numbers was to do something in each district actually. So, if we don't start in district one, we could start in another district. But whatever timeline >> we're going to do, Mr. Mayor, and if
it's with the consent of the commission is come back to the commission, the second meeting in January with a revised standard, rei revised timetable allowing Lisa to work with the public art commission and fin this up. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. And maybe we do the
districts backwards so that we get the opportunity to practice before Commissioner Britain ends up in her count. >> I I go along with that. >> That's one of the revisions >> and I'm essentially asking for more work. I don't have to do >> Yeah, exactly.
>> But in the meantime, I I just think it's really a good look for the city of Sanford mayor. >> Yeah. Mr. Mayor, members of commission, Lisa approached me to it. I thought it was a good idea to show Sanford different than the other cities in San Jose County. I'm just fearful nobody's gonna beat Bentley. He wins it every year and you know I don't know
>> he's ineligible. >> I know. Oh, is he? Awesome. >> There you are. >> Hey, we're the only ones with a tiny desk concert already. So, >> thank you, Lisa. >> There is that. So, >> thank you. >> Okay. >> Second meeting in January. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Great. And special events. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, while this is Lisa, this was shown as Lisa Jones, I would like to um ask for both Lisa and Jennifer to come, but I wanted to start this. What we have had is that the city commission will
approve a special event and you have to do so 60 days ahead of time. That way, they know that they're not supposed to be advertising or doing anything until they have the city commission's approval. What we have been finding is that there are some applicants that while they're supposed to have everything in terms of certificate of
insurance and and other things done before 10 days before the event that some of them are not some of them are doing almost a day before Jennifer has to track them down. Some of them are simply not doing it at all and they've been approved by the commission and we have incidents where they have
advertised and there could be hundreds of people coming to an event and they have not provided the city with the proper insurance. So the question that we wanted to raise with the city commission today is what do we do in a case like that? Because it's not simply saying they don't have permission and
have the police go and say shut it down because then we get the black eye. And these would be some of the same people who are quick to um say it's always our fault. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. But we just had an incident that it was Simo High School and they never
say that it's our fault. Things sometimes things just happen and we we know that the school was good for it and that they didn't purposely do that. So it's not always >> rooted, right? >> Yeah. But my understanding these are sometimes
businesses that do multiple events and know the the process. >> Um good afternoon mayor commissioners. Um that is correct. And yes, Commissioner Britain, as you said, um some of those items we do know about. We
did present that as a denial, but left it to the board. One of the things I think it's important to highlight is that some of these events that grow quite large um fail to provide the proper insurance as Mr. Bonapart was saying and
that gives us pause uh because then there's a lot of liability out there. We had an event this year that um not only didn't provide the general liability but failed to provide alcohol insurance. And uh in that case it wasn't that we
were going to go in and just shut down the entire event. It was the outside footprint. But some people choose just not to participate. >> And there in lies the problem for all of us as a city. >> Can is it possible to require at least
the insurance certificate before commission approval? >> Uh we can and Jen correct me if I'm wrong. Many people businesses will carry that general liability. Sometimes they have the alcohol as well or sometimes they're getting it specifically for this
event. Uh but perhaps if uh so they wouldn't get it that far out unless it's a three-day policy. But we can certainly enact that and see what sort of feedback we get. >> Miss Well, I I don't know how that how how how it works if they have to pay additional funding for it being out that
that that far out. I don't know. But it's it seems like it makes more sense for it to be presented to us than to have to have Jennifer and uh Chief them to be the bad guy out there shutting stuff down. And then no matter how we try to paint that picture that that
person didn't do what they were supposed to do, that is never going to come across. It's always going to be the city city hates the city. Period. So >> and we're not trying to close people down, close for business, any of that. We want it to succeed as much as anybody
or more. Uh but these are items that we're starting to see more and more closely together. >> So this is not a situation of uh we need to communicate the requirements sooner or do anything differently from our
perspective. >> So there are people that have blatantly not following the system. Yes. >> They're some of the same people we have trouble with building permits. >> Imagine that. Then then >> these are not new requirements. I think
basically we just want to make the board aware that if we come to you with a denial or if you should hear about this that we've denied or said that you have to get this that you'll know what's currently taking place. >> And we can do that if it's a repeat where they haven't for the a prior
event. But again, we have situations where for the event upcoming they simply refuse to provide us with the documentations that they've been requested to provide. Well, then then can you I'm sorry, Patrick. Go ahead. >> Well, you had started before me. >> Then can you make it to where they
cannot apply at the next event? >> So, if if if they had the event, they went through it, they they didn't do what they were supposed to, that says that you cannot apply for 2026. >> We can look at that's why we're having the discussion with the commission. >> Yeah. If they are a offender, for lack
of a better term, if they did not previously do what they were supposed to do, they are not eligible to proceed for a new event until they show proof. >> Well, what I was going to suggest is if
they have had that issue in the past, then they are required to provide their insurance certificates before commission approval. >> That's what you said. And that's I'm >> I'm going along with you. >> I'm gonna pull my hair out.
>> And there there is another method that that can be utilized with regard to this process. A require the requirements with regard to general insurance and the alcohol insurance upfront. The other thing is dependent on how in advance we know of the special event bring it back
before the day is for revocation of the special event license uh to conduct the event in the first place so that the city myself uh the chief are not put in a position of even having to consider shutting an event down. So, city
commission, you have given permission for an event. If there's no compliance and you by a certain amount of time that the city commission could revoke that special event, >> but wouldn't that take time though? Like, would you only meet twice a month? Would they have to would it have to come back to the commission for review again?
>> It would come back to the commission again. But that again goes back to the issue of maybe extending the timelines for which these insurance policies need to be presented. Okay. and then including rules as to repeat offenders as to that affecting your
ability to receive a special per uh event permit in the future depending on how many times you've been an offender with regard to these issues. And in my experience, I'm seeing the the exact same issues coming up. I think if you stop them, if you say, "Well, you you
did not, so 2026, you cannot." Or if you in 2026, you committed, in 2027, you cannot. Because if you're just saying, "Well, you have to submit your um your insurance ahead of time," then it's like, "Okay, cool. I'll make sure I do it this time."
>> There's an actual penalty. Now, if you say, and I know some people don't hate me, but if you say, "Hey, it's your fault. you didn't comply. So that makes you ineligible for the next year. You can apply for the the the following year. But that's that's what Tony calls
teeth. >> It's so >> I don't want >> Go ahead. >> No, go ahead. Well, and then we need to figure out is it the applicant or is it the site of the event
because the same location will have events sponsored by different organizations and you know it's the name of the person on the application may change and so is
the same location allowed to have another event or is it the location that has the penalty? >> Is it it's the event? >> So the penalty on the event >> working backwards on that scenario um as the commission has requested in past
months and years we Jennifer keeps track of how many events are happening at different businesses. Mhm. >> Um, so a couple of things we have, uh, to your point, Commissioner Britain, telling them, "No, we're not going to do that. If you have not provided your insurance, which is a a minimum of 10
days out, you can give it to us 10 months out if if you'd like." Also paying fees. >> Uh, to your point, Mayor Woodruff, um, Woodruff Enterprises has an event. They are the person of application. They are
the signature. that person is responsible for that event for the insurance. Now, they may be hosting the Brooks car show, but you'll be filling out the application. So, the it lies with you,
>> but if it's and I don't really know the answer to this question. I think I have an idea. So, there's the the Brooks Bar and Grill who likes to put on events and will allow each of us to have an event
at her bar and grill. And repeatedly, whoever it is that's having the event has trouble getting their paperwork in. Is it the location or is it the event sponsor? Well, >> ultimately, it's the event sponsor.
They're making it's the brick and mortar who's making application. No, it's not necessarily the brick and mortar that's making the application. >> They're responsible. Part of the code is that you have to have a Sanford business address, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So perhaps I shouldn't say brick and
mortar. I should say at Sanford PTR. >> Okay. But so but I have a an organization and I'm eligible to have an event, but I'm having it at her location and I don't do my paperwork.
Can Commissioner Thomas's organization have an event at >> her? Right. You just passing the book. Oh right. >> Okay. >> A new kind of gaming the system. >> See, that's what I think is going to happen. >> Yeah. And Jen, jump in. But ultimately, it's going to be
Brooks Bar and Grill. >> Okay. >> As it always is that >> Okay. That's what I want to make sure it's the location that faces >> Yes. Yeah. the issue, not the 12 different organizations they use to sponsor all their events. >> Correct. But that's because the the
location is the applicant. >> Correct. >> And it is the applicant that's responsible for the insurance and and producing that information to you. >> So co code requires that the applicant is a city of Sanford business.
>> Correct. However, since we are the friendly city and host more events than anyone else, sometimes the business owner may not be the person with the most information about the event. We want them to be, but we have
found that sometimes it's better if the person that has the most knowledge of what's occurring fills out the application and the business owner becomes the sponsor. Now, we want the business owner to be just as involved in as a city. We want the business, the
city, and the applicant to all be able to explain the event, the timeline, all occur, everything happening at the event just on par with everyone else involved. We find sometimes that's not the case.
Sometimes the business owner just wants to rent out our street and we'll advertise it essentially and then the city is being responsible and um there we lose cohesiveness of the event
itself and the city will end up looking like like the bad person when rules aren't being followed. >> Insurance isn't given, timelines, noise, etc. And we've had numerous instances of that. >> And I believe that goes back to the
ultimately um you're using my establishment for your car show and I may not know the the color of the evening for it, but it's my responsibility as that building owner. >> Even if you delegated some of that authority, ultimately it's the business owner's responsibility. And back to the
point of the revocation. So some of the instances I've observed, I've observed those putting on events 24 hours before trying to get their their fees paid. And so that's why my recommendation on that
part is still the revocation. You can have penalties for those who are repeat offenders, but there should also be a process that allows for revocation. If you again, general liability insurance hasn't been turned in. That's major. Alcohol uh insurance hasn't been turned
in. That's major. day before I'm getting emails that you're on your way to the bank to get the fees for the event. That's major. So, we may want to talk about and I can work with you all about ex extending some of these deadlines. So, it's not day before. You have not
gotten your information and your requirements in by this date allowing sufficient time for it to come back before you to say that this event is revoked. and it being up to the applicant to explain why he or she has not done what they're supposed to do.
>> Right? >> So, the deadline for turning in insurance and payment is sort of a floating deadline because it must occur before the last commission
meeting before your event. >> No sir, the the payment and the insurance is due 10 days before the event. >> Right. What I'm saying is >> a change >> remove that so it's due before a commission meeting so you have the opportunity to come back and say this
group didn't has not turned in their paperwork or their their money. Do you want to revoke their event? >> Well, but then then people will be bringing checks to the meeting. >> Fine. >> Okay. >> They get that done. >> All right. What uh
>> these same individuals find time to start advertising? >> Do we do we not do we not float payment currently? Am I am I misunderstanding that >> floating payment? >> Yeah, we some payment uh we we typically
accept after the event. >> There have been events that have asked for uh permission to pay for usually police fees afterwards. They're large, right? >> Uh and they're deferred. Okay. >> Yeah, >> but that receives prior approval. >> Okay. I just want to make sure we're
still we're not >> The only other instance is if it's a ongoing monthly event like food truck fiesta, we don't require um prepayment of fees. We just want last month's fees before the next month. >> Okay. Okay. So, and after every event we
before every event um an invoice goes out, payment is required 10 days before the event or according to code approval shall be deemed rescended. Already that's in code and we've never held that up. We we have threatened >> we always let them go.
>> Yes. Yes. And and now it's an expectation. I uh I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I think some of the problems we are experiencing these last couple of years with special events not
happening is because of decisions and choices that were made on this dis because we had certain people not liking certain things about events. I don't want us to make events even
harder to accomplish, but I don't want people to get away with not doing what they're supposed to. So, I want us to be mindful of the two and and be careful. And that's why I asked
that question about the fees uh all being done ahead of time. Uh so uh we need to still have some flexibility. Um we are close to not being the city with the most events.
>> There are other cities kicking our tail right now close by. Okay. Because they are friendlier with events now. Uh and they have special areas to have events. Um the city is never invested in in that
uh like other cities have. So, let's be mindful that we aren't the great city we once were and we are close to not being uh not being an event city at all. Uh so that's my only concern. I have to
disagree then got nothing to do with us. >> I'm sorry. I have to disagree with >> Yeah, me too. >> You can disagree all you want to. >> You can disagree all you want to. There are there are events every weekend in other cities. >> What other cities? Longwood Castleberry. You want me to keep going?
>> No. >> Okay. We're already late to dinner. >> If I could just submit one last thing. One of the things that we're working on, which is Jennifer, I will say bends over backwards to help these clients. I will just put that out there. >> Um, secondarily, some of these
businesses are taking it upon themselves to uh late in the day throw out cones that block a city street >> and parking. >> Yes. And and so that makes it difficult because when we go in and say, you know, not our cones, we can't do this. As
Commissioner Britain said, we're we're always going to look like the bad guy, but we have a a public duty to be safe in what we do. >> Well, they did that during CO, too. And and that was a fight I had with city manager then. Uh businesses putting out
cones and signs and etc. So, uh we're always going to have people push an envelope. Yeah, but that makes that makes their job harder. >> And I, you know, we can go back and forth of whether we we not friendly or
not. Who cares? But I just want to make sure that again you all are able to do your job and then that Lindsay doesn't have to do more of her job defending us because we don't have what we're
supposed to have. And then I don't want to add to chief them for them shutting down an event and all of not just Sam but outside guests being upset because they've made plans to come to an event
>> here and it's shut down two weeks before. So I don't know if we need to move the date back 30 days. I this one is a tough one and I don't know how we're going to be able to to to have this discussion or finish it tonight. Maybe we need to think about it a little bit more because it's going to be also
difficult to try to figure out uh when your event comes right before the commission meeting comes the 30 days or the 20 whatever between that that was a lot of >> yeah there could be some gaps but with board's permission and suggestion Mr.
Bonapart's permission. We can work with Attorney Green to come up with and and our other colleagues, Chief Smith, Deputy Ra, Director Roando, um to come up with something that will work. I I think first step is when you have a
location that we have had this problem with, we require the insurance before the commission approves it rather than saying you can't have one for another year or we're going to bring it back to commission and rescend it or say, you know, you got to have your paperwork up
front. >> And and if they don't do that, then it never gets to us for approval. And I don't know how that may require a change in code or just a change in policy, but if someone has failed to
meet a deadline in the past, >> then they have to submit in advance. >> I think that's our easiest first step. >> Don't they come to us even if you come to us as a denial? >> Yes, ma. Okay. >> Yeah. >> They will come to us. >> So, all right. I do have some
interesting stats I would like to share that Jennifer provided with me and I have not had um the time I wanted to dig into this really deep because I found it surprising. Um in 2022 there are 127 events that cost a total of $162,000.
Okay. Years later with our cost escalating so much and making it so difficult to have events in 2025 we had 187 events and the total cost was $3,000 less. Hm. >> So, I know some events have increased in
cost because they've gotten bigger and I'm going to dig into this some more, but I thought it was very interesting that we added 60 events over four years and the total cost charged to the events went down by several thousand dollars. >> Yeah. But, okay. Liars figure and and
figures lie that we have a lot of special events that aren't costing much at all. And that is true. We've got businesses happen to do special events in their own damn parking lot. >> So, this is a lot different than back in 2022.
>> I am hungry. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Anything else in advance? All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Jennifer and Lisa. And see a lot of work attorney and come up with some procedures so that we have less of an issue with people that are blatant
violators. Yes. Okay, Mr. Mayor, there's nothing else on the agenda. I do, however, want to have an introduction and call on Miss Osbborne to make her introduction. Hello. Good evening, Mayor, City Commissioner, Mr. Bonapart, and city attorney. I am pleased to announce our
new community development block grant coordinator, Miss Tiara Hardaway. She joins us. She's worked with um Winter Park, yeah, Winter Park um Deborah, sorry, Winter Park Housing Authority as well as the choice neighborhood
initiative with Department of Housing and Urban Development. So, I will let Tiara tell you a little bit more about ourselves. >> Thank you, Nikki. And good afternoon. I won't keep you too long. I know you're ready for lunch. Um, Tiara Hardaway again, I have experience in community
development, affordable housing management and neighborhood revitalization. As she said, I worked with the C um, choice neighborhoods program with HUD and then I also worked with the state of Texas on their home program. I was the manager there and
then with the city of Winter Park. I was their deputy director for about nine years. Um, so I am passionate about helping this community. Um, I look forward to providing my experience and um, some new ideas to the community
development block program grants. Um, and looking forward to work with my counterparts um, at the city manager's office. >> Okay, >> welcome Tiara. Tiara. Tiara. >> Tiara. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> Welcome to the city. Thank you for having me.
>> Thank you. Okay. Only that it is quarter after 6 and we have tonight a number of programs where a number of residents will be coming to be here at 7. >> Okay. All right. I had two things that I wanted to bring up real quick. Um one,
you know, I went to the cleanup um they had downtown um on Sunday. 65 people showed up. Went really well. And as I'm walking around thinking, we really need to do this not just downtown but elsewhere in the city. Um, so I was just going to throw out as a thought um if we
if commissioners um wanted to try to organize something on that same Sunday and each if there would be a location in every district other than just downtown um that there's a cleanup going on. So I'm just tossing that as an idea out for y'all to think about. >> As a longtime uh participant of that
program, we've tried that before. >> I know tried different things. >> It did not >> but >> did not work. Downtown seems to be a popular spot. >> Okay. because we are out there >> um at the December 8th meeting. December 8th, >> we're doing the um Goldsboro quilt and
um I have planned um we'll be doing a um well, at this point it would be a proclamation because it would be me doing it. Um and part of that will be an apology um related to the annexation of Goldsboro. I did want to see if y'all
wanted to make that a resolution instead of a proclamation that would be voted on by the commission. >> So rather than me stating it, it would be the city commission stating it. >> So that doesn't have to be decided right now, but it would need to be decided
before December 8th, >> before the paperwork's done. >> Yeah. So it' be the same language. >> So we have to apply for a permit to agree to that >> and and logistically it would probably be that I would read it because the
presentations at six and then at the meeting present it for a vote and we would just explain that that this is the resolution that's going to be presented at the meeting tonight. >> Did did the members of Goldboro ask for that? >> No.
So anyway, again, we can think about that and come to a good decision. >> Commissioner Thomas, anything? >> What do you think? >> Commissioner Thomas, anything? >> Uh, no, I have nothing. >> Mr. Austin, >> I'll wait for Commissioner. >> No, sir. >> Okay, then we're
going. Well, I got >> It's way warmer in here than it is outside. >> It's hard to think it's cold outside, but it it is. >> Yes. >> I love it.
Yeah, I was going to grab >> Now it's safe to go back the normal route upstairs. >> Yes, >> it is the usual way. Sir, >> horrible projects were done. >> You lost the elevator. >> I know, right? It's been long enough.
But now somebody Part: 2
Now, if you get over there and you get all two pretend, I don't know. Who the hell are you talking to? >> I'm sorry. There's nobody here by that name. There ain't no Shawn over here. What are you talking about? >> What? [Music]
>> It is a long day. Yeah, >> that's funny as all. Get out right when you are on time. All >> right, >> excuse me. We'll go ahead and call to order the meeting of the Sanford City
Commission for Monday, November 10th, 2025. Am I on? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> I'll talk really loud then. Call to order the meeting of Sanford City Commission for Monday, November 10th, 2025. The first order of business is the
legislative prayer by Pastor John's of the Connection Community Church, followed by the pledge of allegiance. Um, please stand if you can. Let us pray. Dear heavenly father, thank you for these men and women who are willing to serve the community. Thank you for the community who comes together
in a spirit of love and reconciliation and set aside their own wants, needs, and desires for the better good of the community. Lord, let your will be done, Lord. And let everybody leave here feeling that they have all worked for a common purpose. Amen. >> Amen.
I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, pastor.
>> Mayor, we have a number of um presentations. Uh the first is the citizens academy graduating class of 2023. So we know police holder >> maybe right and all of us. >> All right.
>> All right. >> At this time mayor and commissioners we're going to hold the graduation ceremony for class 22 citizens academy. These folks 23 I'm sorry. These uh these folks 35
citizens residents business owners have gone through our academy. It's a 10-week class. They visited all of our city departments across the 10 weeks and have become well knowledgeable now of all of the different services and
programs the city of Sanford offers. And if it was not for our department directors, our department staff for showing what we do in such a good light, they wouldn't have learned as much as they have. And so we appreciate all the city staff. Thank you so much. And now
we can call each person's name up and you'll receive a graduation certificate if you would stand up and stay in the front for a one final class photo. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay.
Cue the music please. Citizens And on the screen while they're doing that, you will see this is the actual class for those who did not take the academy just yet. This is a group of all of the citizens and all the different classes. This class started in September
and it was 10 weeks every Wednesday night from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. As you can see, they visited all of the city departments. And also um we're going to hold the next academy uh class 24 in February and applications will be open
soon, end of uh December. Well, early December. But thank you m for Thank you and please watch this screen and all the wonderful things they have done throughout the 10 weeks. No. Okay. Nick Belvich.
Thank you, Nick. [Applause] Logan Bessibius [Applause] Bird [Applause]
Maria Camara I [Applause] Patrick Carter, [Applause]
Raphael Castillo. [Applause] >> Okay. I don't see John Don. These men and women join a group of almost 500 or more graduates already of
the Citizens Academy. Tim Dolan [Applause] >> Trisha >> Fu Shannon Fischer,
[Applause] >> Sandy Gil, [Applause] Eric Goodwill, Anissa Grant, Roslin Hines
are [Music] right here. Harry Hmel. [Applause] And by the way, did we mention this is free to the citizens and we do provide
an evening meal? Valerie Hutchinson, [Applause] Ruby Lozo Castillo. No. Robert Lavine, [Applause] Andrew Lewis I 4th.
[Applause] >> Karen McClaney [Applause] Daniel Mononttoya [Applause] Gabriella Pada
Gabby [Applause] >> that's my neighbor Rashmina Rasnos Swami, [Applause] >> Stephanie Reese, [Applause]
>> Franklin Rusbekcki. [Applause] All right. Well, I didn't miss anyone, have I? No. Okay. Wonderful. Well, here we are. Class 23, City of Sanford Citizens Academy. Congratulations everyone.
Anybody want to say anything about your experience? Anybody? >> We have a timeline. Um, this is a great class if you live in Sanford, if you do business in Sanford. Um, I highly suggest it. It'll be
something that we promote to all of our chamber members for every class moving forward because you learn so much um about the different departments and um I just highly suggest taking this class and thank you so much for offering it
and the dinner is worth the 10 weeks for sure. So >> which class was most entertaining? >> Yeah, the parks. Yeah, Brady. Brady was really good. Yeah, Brady and Pamela. >> Brady and Pamela were very entertaining
for sure though. >> Public works. I missed >> I missed public works. I'm sorry. Oh, no. I did. I was there. >> They were all really good classes.
[Music] >> Yeah. I just want to um thank all of y'all for taking the time to do this because the better informed our citizens are, the better our city is. So, I really appreciate y'all taking the time. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. Um kudos to Lisa. A round of applause for
Lisa put it together. >> So, thank you so much. >> I wanted to mention too though, we have two citizens academy graduate three that are elected officials by the way. Commissioner Britain, Commissioner Austin, and Commissioner Thomas. So, Mayor, you're next.
>> They didn't have it when I was >> I'm way too old for that. >> Okay, let's take a photo. A group photo, everybody. Thank you. [Music] Leave it on. Leave it on. >> Yeah, that's it.
[Music] >> Yes. That's fine. >> Unless you're going to be up next. >> Who's doing youth council? >> I'll do it. Are you >> You do it. Get Mikey. He hates
everything. Next, we have uh introductions and a presentation by the mayor's youth council. I'm going to turn it back over to Lisa. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> I'm proud to announce our 2025 2026 mayor's Youth Council members. Uh come
on up, everybody. These are students from our local high school, Seminal High School and CRS Academy of Information Technology. This program has been in existence for since 2019 or earlier with the city of Sanford and the youth
council have a lot to say and represent the youth of our community. I'd like to introduce Miss Thomas, Latana Thomas. Please stand. She is our program teacher. Without her, we couldn't make this possible. Seriously. So, I'm going
to hand it over. Who wants to take the lead on this? Okay, here we are. Good evening everyone. My name is Renea and I'm the president of the youth council and this is our team. >> Good evening everyone. I am Shauna Chambers and I'm a junior at Semino High
School and I'm the vice president of the Sanford Mayor Youth Council. >> Good evening. My name is Sita Thomas. I go to Semino High School. I am a senior and I'm just a member of this amazing mayor's youth council.
>> Good evening everyone. My name is David Wi. I am a junior at Semino High School and I am your secretary for the Stanford Mayor's Youth Council. >> Good evening. Uh, good evening everybody. My name is Xavier Benjamin. I am a senior at Crims Academy of Information Technology and I'm just an
officer. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Erica Brown. I'm a senior at Crooms Academy of Information Technology and I'm the Sanford Mayor's Youth Council historian. >> Good evening. My name is Aorvishra Karma. I'm a senior at Seminal High
School. >> Good evening. I am Nalo Clair Tusant and I am a senior at Seminal High School. >> Um, good evening. My name is Karma Powell and I am a senior at Seminal High School. >> Good evening. My name is Iman Doss and
I'm a sophomore at Seminal High School. >> Good evening. My name is Saher and I'm a senior at Seminal High School. >> Good evening. My name is Kareem Goodwin and I'm a junior in Semino High School. >> My name is Kayana Donaldson and I'm a senior at Semino High School.
>> My name is Kaye Shoot and I'm a junior at SciHigh. They're all coming to lobby. to >> Tallahassee months away. Um so this is our team and okay uh this year the focus of the
council is going to be to strengthening is strengthening our local community and we're hoping to achieve this by partnering up with businesses around Sanford and we're creating social media posts with them and promoting them through our social media pages um in
hopes to promote more local businesses. >> Okay. So to start off the process with in which how we are developing our marketing routine for this year, we reviewed our districts. We learned who our commissioners were and we split up
into four teams. Each team has about five people and they picked two local businesses that they would be highlighting and promoting on our city of Sanford page. If you haven't seen, has anyone here seen any of the posts we've made?
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, check that out. We we spent a lot of hours, you know, brainstorming, teamwork, and put a lot of effort into making these post. And it also helps out our local small businesses. It boosts them and gives them, you know, just a highlight more
business, more re more revenue. And it's good to support your small businesses rather than, you know, going to a big corporation for something you can get as something local, you know, >> okay, so we have our planning. So each team researched the type of
small business they wanted to make a uh ad for and then we uh brainstormed how we could best advertise this restaurant or small business. For example, um I did Elsao and that's because um it was
Hispanic Heritage Month in the the month of October. I wanted to do something specifically and so I thought why not do like a tick tock type style video cuz I always thought like Sanford was like a little city and even though like one of
the clips is literally like me walking across the street. I know it's short usually a lot of influencers use that for New York but I was like why can't Sanford be like my little New York like little Sanford. So that's why I use that um type of formatting. Okay.
>> And after we figured out which businesses that we wanted to do, we then tried to figure out how are we going to collaborate with the business owners. One of the best ways that we figured was by emailing. Um we researched the either like through the websites or Facebook.
We looked at their email and we just reached out like, "Hey, um we're Sanford Mir's Youth Council. We're very interested in your business. Um and we'd be more than happy to talk about how we can market you guys." Um or one of the things that my my district did was that
we had a script. Same thing for an email except this time we went to in person in their business and talk that hey we are very interested and this is our mission and we're more than happy to um spread you guys in our community.
Next we have our advertising. So, as I mentioned before, uh when you're thinking about making ads, we had to make sure we cho chose the best format which will like properly and efficiently uh present this ad, present this restaurant or small business to the
community. So, um that came from collaborating with the amazing Mr. Nico. He really helped us uh he really helped us uh understand how social media works in the best ways to reach everybody and every audience cuz as you guys know
we're Gen Z so you know we don't use certain things like Facebook or any anything like that. So he kind of really helped us like experience and look into that whole new world of well old world of of technology. >> Hold on a minute there.
Um, but also that also comes with collaborating with the business owners as well. So, um, even though my post has not been up yet, which you guys see, it's going to be amazing. It's amazing. Um, I collaborated with the manager and all the staff at Elo to help me like
know the ins and outs of their menu, knowing how to pronounce things correctly, and I made sure like, of course, they knew that I'm doing like a review. Well, I come I've been to El before, guys. It's amazing. but like you know making sure they know that I was recording and everything and I think collaborating with business owners so
they can also have a hand in how their business is presented as well on social media is really amazing. So and then after that we went out we edited for an hour or so and we brought our vision to life. So that was amazing. [Applause]
>> Good evening everyone. We are district one. We are currently missing one of our members. We have our amazing commissioner over there, Mrs. Brighton. >> Yes. >> Um so for district one, the first business we looked at was Theater West
End. It's right in um historic Samford, like the downtown area. But it our post was seen by over 2,500 viewers across both the Instagram and Facebook >> and they were super excited to work with
us and helped us create everything and were were able to respond in a timely manner. The second business we did was Hot Asian Buns. Their posts were seen over 3,700 times across the platforms. And while they were very excited to work with us, they were harder to reach
because they were more in person than through emails. >> All right, so let's take a look at what we actually >> Which one are we still in? District one. >> Yeah. >> So let's take a look at what we actually posted visually on Instagram and on Facebook. So on the left you can see Theater West End. So we made a cover
page for this and as you can see the pictures are actually from plays that happened in the past and shows how interesting Theater West End really is. Then after this cover page, we actually had a slideshow of upcoming plays for the month and we advertised for them so people knew what was going on. We advertised for plays such as American
Psycho. And then on the right we have hot Asian buns and we made kind of like a flyer for it and it's really interesting. So we actually had images of what they serve and we had a little blurb about what type of restaurant they are and what type of food they serve. And I mean if you look at the food I
mean it's pretty enticing. >> Excellent. to choose just two. >> So, as you can see, they went to each commission district and did something. That's the theme here. >> Um, so our team created a video advertisement for a store called The
Treehouse Antiques in downtown Historic Sanford. And, um, our video reached across reached 4,000 views across all platforms. and we hope that this helps the business. So before we go to the next slide, I want to talk about the process of how we
created our video. So David and Sahasha, they went to the store and gathered videos of all the antiques displayed in the stores and then I edited them into one video using Cap Cut to make it appealing and aesthetic for our audience. So if we can play the video on
the next slide, please. Okay. All right. >> Okay. But that's our video. >> It's on social >> and I just wanted to mention and say um mentioned it as well. So, as you know, we are Gen Z and something that we valued or like we focused on while
creating this video was reaching our age um our age audience. And so, the reason why we targeted Instagram reels and um we focused on that type of like aesthetic video was so that our own friends from our schools, from grooms,
from Seino and others could also like you know be enticed by the antique store. Thank you. >> Great job. Well, we were representing district 4 and we just wanted to tell you a little
bit about the companies that we Yeah, here we go. Okay, so um we did decision tactical in comic central and I'll let >> So basically this page right here is the analytics that we received from after
the post and this is just to show like who was able to or where the audience like how many people it reached you know and um specifically on the comic central post I saw comment a commenttor say like that they wanted to check out the
business So, >> okay. >> But this is our actual like post that we went out. What happened is we emailed the uh uh stores we were interested in and we went ahead and went to their locations
and um their marketing like professional wasn't in. So, we couldn't really ask questions towards there or do an interview. So instead, we I drafted up some prototype examples of how I wanted to lay out a poster, and I asked them if
we could take some photos. So for Comic Central in specific, we went around the store to show off their cool collection of like stuff that like is a nerd's dream. So we got a little sidetracked when we were in there checking out all the comics and figures, but you know, we
got all our photos in the end. This is only one of the three that we made. Um and then the other business that we had picked was decision tactical. Decision tactical is a training ground in the
seminal town center. It has simulations. It has in October they had a zombie apocalypse simulation that anyone can do. It was only limited time. The Sanford Police Department goes there regular regularly to uh train there and
everything to perform them well for like when they get out and like have to deal with like the the situations that are involved in the simulations. There's also a practice shooting range that they can do, but it's not like an actual shooting range is also a simulation as well. They also have competitions that
they do and then they also have a really good happy hour there. Allegedly. >> So, you've been told. >> So, does uh does Comic Central have Sandman collection? >> They do. >> Then they pass.
>> They they have a Marvel DC like underground comics. They have like They have Invincible. They have Funko Pops. They have figurines. They have old comics. They have like stuff for kids. uh that the section right here is filled to the
brim with like old style like comics that like they collect and you can donate to them as well. They're really cool business and I really hope that they get more traction. They're around the Super Target uh in WP Ball Boulevard, so it's like a big shopping
center right next to Kiki's >> and it's >> Good job, District 4. >> And it's right down the street from uh Decision Tactical. It's like right on the street like 2 minutes away. >> Please >> quickly coffee. >> No.
>> Fine. Let's go get >> I do like their breakfast. >> So, you must be wondering what we learned. First question that we wanted to answer was how do we reach out to businesses effectively? First off, we wanted to make sure we contact them as early as possible so we can get a timed
uh a response in a timely manner. Or second off, if they weren't re uh reaching out to us in emails, then we want to go in person to ensure that they see our face and show them that we are um very interested in working with them. Um secondly, how are we going to improve
our marketing strate strategies going forward? So, we realized that as we started posting, more people were actually um engaging in our posts. So, we're going to continue doing that at um we're all going to try to uh do as a group eight posts per month. Um so,
hopefully our consistency and creativity will attract more people towards the social media page of Sanford and to the local businesses we're trying to uplift. And we plan to change for not only ourselves but how we interact with
businesses. Our how effectively we communicate to other businesses and how we communicate with each other to get to those businesses. What we post about the businesses and what we think we should
act oh my gosh effectively interact with on posts to see the traction that's going on. I just give I just want to say real quickly, let's give them a round of applause. [Applause]
>> Can all of you stand? >> Okay. They created this on their own. So the key to is we have strong leaders in the city of Sanford that attend Sim High School and uh Crooms Academy of Technology and all of these individuals
are planning on reaching out to the city commissioners. I think some of you have already talked to them about businesses. Uh we also want other businesses uh recommendations that can be sent because we want to basically get everyone have
an opportunity to have their business known. some of the places that they had I had no clue. Uh and I live here and it's like oh okay so we'll go here and especially um buns baby
>> and and so we were like we're just different places that was like okay. So we are expanding this out. It's eight per month. So we did the first drive. So we'll have another uh drive for the month of November, January all the way through June. So, eight businesses, two
in each district, um that we're going to um hopefully advertise and promote and promote the city of Sanford. That is our theme for this year. And it's marketing. >> Okay. >> Yes. And all this information can be found on the city of Sanford's Facebook
page. We have to get Tik Tok maybe or something like >> Oh, that's But that's where you can find all of this. Yes, Commissioner Thomas. Yes, >> Instagram. We have Instagram. That's exactly right. So, they're helping us, we're helping you. >> All right, let's get a a photo if
>> Well, they haven't done the best district yet. >> Oh, yes, they have. >> No. >> Oh, shoot. >> What do you think about >> You mean District Three, >> Zack? Whatever you got,
>> we'll talk to you. Actually, we have do we do have a couple of questions we would like to ask you. [Music] Great job. >> Tell you, >> by the way, this content this content is going to be uploaded to they are
award-winning. By the way, we're going to send these videos to the Florida League of Cities for the Youth Council competitions, and they've won in the past. So, it's not just local. they'll be recognized statewide. So, we want to acknowledge that. Thank you. You can't get the four without
[Music] >> I was waiting for you to get healthy just so I could give you a greet. >> Okay. And next we have a proclamation for Veterans Day. And so I would like for any veteran in the audience to please come join me up here.
>> If you're a veteran in any >> um any of our services, >> come on up. >> Veterans, come on up. >> I know there's more Tony >> out there, so come on up. >> Oh, I forget. I'm
more Chief Smith, >> get up here. >> Chief Smith, >> I know it's a long walk, but you you can do it. >> Practice for later when I get them up here because I always do. Right. Whereas
the United States of America and dozens of allied countries around the world recognize November 11th as a day of remembrance, a day to pay tribute to our heroes, and a day to rededicate ourselves to the cause of peace since the World War I armistice was signed at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the
11th month of 1918. And whereas we gather again today to remember the countless sacrifices of all of those in our military services who fought so valiantly on the seas and the air and on foreign shores to preserve our heritage of freedom and to show our deep appreciation for our veterans heroism
and their immeasurable contributions to our country while advancing peace and freedom around the world. And whereas we recognize that the United States of America remains the greatest military force in the world because of our veterans who pass the torch of liberty from one generation to the next while
enduring painful personal sacrifices to preserve our liberty and prosperity. And whereas brave men and women of Sanford and our surrounding communities have answered and continue to answer our country's call to duty with the service in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and Space Force, as
well as their reserve components with valor and unrelenting determination, setting a standard of bravery and idealism that inspires us and makes our country a beacon of hope and freedom for all. Now therefore, I would by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford,
Florida, do hereby proclaim November 11, 2025 as Veterans Day and encourage all citizens to acknowledge and honor veterans for their contributions to the principles of democracy, individual freedom, and human rights through their service. And thank you all for your
service. [Applause]
Thank you. Oh, wait. Not yet. >> I thought you said it was perfect. [Music] Thank you. [Music] >> And our Veterans Day um ceremony will be
tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. at Veterans Memorial Park, Memorial Park. Um, and I would like to thank uh, Commissioner Thomas for agreeing to present that pres um, proclamation tomorrow at that ceremony. >> Right. Um, as we get to the business of the commission to facilitate public
input, if you plan to speak on any item, um, we would appreciate if you could complete the yellow citizens form, which I think is now a half a sheet. um uh and place it in the back and it will be brought up to us. The public will be given an opportunity to speak on any item before the city commission dur
during a regular meeting. Before the consent agenda, I will ask if anyone wishes to speak. During public hearings, um there will be an opportunity to speak before a motion is made on each item. And during regular items, if comments are not called for and you have not turned in yellow form, just raise your hand when we get to the item you want to
speak about and you will be recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item except a person representing an organization and presenting its views during a quasi judicial hearing. Citizens participation is between public hearings and regular items and individual individuals may
address the commission on any topic not on the agenda and there's a fivem minute time limit for citizens comments. So that brings us to the minutes of the October 27 regular meeting and work session. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion second. Any further discussion?
>> All in favor? Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Um we are remove pulling consent items A and B. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on any of the consent items? See no one on commission for a motion for consent C through P. Unless you want
to pull something for discussion. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? >> Pass unanimously. Thank you. Brings us to Oh, wait. We have three
quazitional hearings this evening and those are um A3 ordinance 4835 um C 4838 which is thousand um East first street and E the uh appeal of the
historic preservation board's um denial. So regarding those three items, in order to conserve time, I'll read this once tonight. When agenda items involve quai judicial process, commissioners must disclose all exparte communications, including the name of the communicator and the time and place and substance of
the communication. Written communications commissioner's investigation, site visits, and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made a part of the record. Persons who have opinions contrary to those expressed in exparte communication may refute or respond to the communication at the hearing when they
make their presentation. In a quai judicial process, parties to the proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have legal standing to appeal the decision can also request to be recognized as the party. Parties are subject to cross-examination and must give their testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party
to the proceedings to be recognized and provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not subject to cross-examination and are not sworn as evidentiary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide facts relevant to application can be considered will be considered in the decision. Quala qualifications of the
city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided to the city commission must be competent material and substantial under Florida law. A guide to quai judicial hear proceedings has been published on the city's websites and copies are available at on the table at the back of
the chambers. So if anyone is um requesting to speak as a party to ordinance 4835 which is 2520 Narcissus, ordinance 4838 which is 1000 East 1st Street or the appeal of the historic
preservation board's denial at 101 East First Street. If those people would all please rise along with city staff that will be testifying. Okay. 1000 East First Street. Are y'all
just Are the rest of y'all going to be speaking? >> Yes. >> I want to swear everybody in at one time so we only have to do it once. Okay. So, we'll go around and if you would say your name um loudly, please. We'll start
back here. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Behind you. >> Hey, behind them. The row of staff. >> Okay. Coming over here. >> Okay. Right. And if you would raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm that
the testimony that you are about to give in the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. >> Okay. Thank you very much. And that brings us to the first reading of or second reading of ordinance 4833.
An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, annexing by voluntary petition certain real properties tax identification partial number 34-22-9-30-58 000000-130 which is generally addressed as 2520 Narcissus Avenue located contiguous to
the city of Sanford in accordance with the voluntary annexation provisions of section 171.044 044 Florida statute redefining the boundaries of the city of Sanford to include said property amending the boundaries of the city in
accordance with the provisions of section 166.031 031 Florida statutes, providing for findings, providing for conditions, directing the city clerk to record the ordinance with the clerk of the circuit court, with the chief administrative office of Seino County,
and with the department of state, providing for legal description and a map, and providing for the incorporation of that exhibit, repealing all ordinances in conflict here, providing for severability, providing for non-conification, and the taking of administrative actions, and providing
for an effective ive date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, city staff have reviewed the request for annexation and found a request to meet the criteria set forth in the Florida statues relating to voluntary annexation. The property boundaries are contiguous to the city's boundaries and reasonably compact. The
proposed annexation does not create a new enclave. The property is proposed to be an extension of the existing church and education facility and staff recommends city commission approve resolution 4833. Hey, this is a public hearing. Anyone from alliance wish to speak to this
item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing and bring the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Questionly. Um I forgot to mention that Commissioner Williams would not be joining us this evening because
he has had uh knee surgery. Um that's second reading of ordinance 4834. Ordinance number 2025-4834, an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, amending the city of Sanford comprehensive plan as previously amended, providing for amendment of the
future land use map of the future land use element of the city of Sanford comprehensive plan relative to certain real property approximately 1.19 acres in size owned by the Society of St. Pas X, Orlando, Florida, Incorporated. Tax
parcel identification number 221930-5 AD40130 said property being addressed as 9520 Narcissus Avenue providing for the future land use designation to be amended from low density residential
semino county to waterfront downtown business district city providing for legislative findings and intent providing for assignment of the land use designation for the property providing for severability providing for ratification of prior acts of the city, providing for conflicts, providing for
codification and directions to the code codifier, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, city staff finds that the smallcale land use amendment is appropriate and suitable for the subject site and is comparable with the surrounding land uses and is consistent
with the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan. On September the 4th of 2025, the city's planning and zoning commission met and recommended approval that the city commission adopt the amended land use plan. >> Hey, this is a public hearing. No one from the audience wish to speak to this
item. Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Brand the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> A motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Second reading of ordinance 4835. An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida,
providing for the reszoning of certain real property appro approximately 1.19 acres in size owned by the Society of St. Pas X, Orlando, Florida, Incorporated. Tax parcel identification number 2219305 A840130
by the Semino County property appraiser. Which property is located within the Sanford city limits addressed as 9520 Narcissus Avenue. Map of the property is attached from agricultural seminal county to agriculture ad city providing for findings and intent providing for the taking of implementing
administrative actions providing for the adoption of a map by reference providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for non-odification and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. the mayor members of city commission on September the 4th of 2025 the city commission the city's planning and
zoning commission met and they agreed with city staff recommendations and they voted to recommend that the city commission adopt the ordinance rel reszoning 1.19 acres located at the project address of 2520 Nissus Avenue this is quite an additional matter does
anyone have anything to disclose >> I have nothing further to disclose >> this is a public hearing and anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Bring in the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. A >> motion, a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I I.
>> Any oppose? Pass unlessly. Second reading of ordinance 4837. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida pertaining to the code enforcement lean amnesty program amending sections 26-141 and 26144 of the code of ordinances of the city of
Sanford, Florida. providing for legislative findings, providing for implementing administrative actions, providing for a savings provision, providing for conflicts, providing for severability, providing for codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, the city staff is
recommending that the city commission adopt ordinance number 4837. >> This is a public hearing. Does anyone from the audience wish to speak to this item? >> Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Brand commission for action moves approved. Second.
>> A motion and second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? That's unanley. >> Second reading of ordinance 4838. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the planned development resing of real property
totaling approximately 5.84 84 acres in size and assign tax identification partial numbers 3019 31507 0E00-000000 and 30-9-31-507-f00 which are generally addressed as 1 East
first street within the city limits map of the attached to establish a mixeduse development providing for the taking of implementing administrative ative actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference, repealing all conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, providing for
non-contification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, following your October 27th, 2025 city commission meeting. A number of conditions for approval were proposed and they're listed in staff report. Okay, this is a quasi judicial matter.
Um, if anyone has anything to disclose, I have spoken with Miss Henson, Miss Scoffield, and uh, Miss Agnini about the um, application of schedule S on this property since our last meeting.
>> I have read correspondence from Miss Agnini of the Historic Preservation Board. >> Great. Okay. So, Miss Sensson, >> I do not have a further presentation this evening as full presentations were given at the last hearing. I did update
the ordinances per the recommendation of the commission for the changes they wanted to see. And if you have any questions, let me know. Right. So um let's clarify how schedule S will be applied.
>> Okay. So um earlier today it was brought to our attention that two of the conditions are very similar in the staff report but so three and five five was added but three and five are very similar. Basically,
condition number four says that at the time of adoption of this ordinance, it says that schedule S will go into effect and any permits pulled and any changes made to the building, anything exterior will go through historic preservation
board as if it were a landmark property. However, the landmarking per the other conditions are not required until just before certificate of occupancy is issued. Is there any reason that that can't proceed
before construction's completed since it's going to be um under S code anyway? >> The applicant has noted to staff that they are not interested in landmarking it until said time that they are ready to certificate for certificate of occupancy. Okay. So, as part of the
negotiated development order that accompanies the plan development, the condition that arose was the consistency with schedule S during the remodel. >> Okay. All right. Any questions for staff? >> Yep. Just just clarify that one more
time. I just I just want to make sure say say that one more time. And I'm I'm more so we're speaking on um item the recommendation number four. >> Great. Recommendation number four is saying that at the time if this is approved and an ordinance is adopted to reszone the property to plan development.
>> One of the conditions that's in this negotiated development order >> is that upon adoption of that PD, they are subject to schedule S as if they were landmarked. Okay. But they're not required to file and go through the process of landmarking until right before CO.
>> But they're still held under the schedule S guidelines. That is what was discussed during the first hearing and agreed as part of this negotiated development >> and that protects the building. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> All right. The applicant have a presentation or comments? A brief presentation. Okay. >> All right. Mayor, I understand why I don't have a presentation. I just want the opportunity to respond to anything brought up. >> Okay. Um, could is there a reason y'all
don't want to do the local landmark until construction's completed? >> We've got a 100-y old building. We don't know what sitting here today. We don't know what is required because we have to uh get an architect and get plans and we
want to be sure that when we're about ready to be done, we can actually use the building and we just don't know today. So, if we designated it today and we couldn't use the building, we'd be in a world of hurt. That's the >> I don't understand.
>> But but there's no difference. >> I mean designate may doing the final step of designating it as a local landmark doesn't really affect any use of the building.
>> It does your uh mayor uh your honor. It does if >> Don't make his head too big. If we can't use the building and we designated it, then we can't demolish it very easily, which we don't want to do.
>> But it's going to but it's going to be under S code, which means you won't be able to anyway. >> Well, that but that's okay. It's still not designated. >> Okay, >> that didn't sound right at Yeah, I would I mean the
>> all and staff correct me if I'm wrong. Having it designated as a local landmark just means it falls under schedule S and historic preservation board. >> Well, it's it's protected. I mean, I can see there are some possibilities. If you
wanted to sell it, someone might not want it to be a landmark. If you as a commission ever wanted to change the plan development, you could remove that stipulation, whereas you can't necessarily remove the landmarking. >> Okay. >> I mean, I don't really know the I don't
know what the benefit is, but they would still be required to meet schedule S. S has provisions regarding demolition. S test provisions regarding any external changes to that structure from paint all the way through you know changing out windows grouping types elevation adding
additions everything. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> U mayor in number nine. Last time we talked about the pre the preference for this gift shop to be in the lobby where
it was more accessible. And I don't see it specified here where it will be not less than 550 square ft at a minimum that highlights the history etc. But I thought we were pretty specific
about that it would be in the lobby. >> Mhm. >> Easily accessible by the public. >> Right. Are y'all okay with us adding that it's in the lobby, easily accessible to the public? >> I see positive headshakes there.
>> I mean, that's that was what the conversation was. >> We had Yeah, we had a long conversation and it's not in here. >> Yeah. After the meeting, we we listened to y'all and we talked about what we can do, but it's we got to get an architect. But the idea is in historic
preservation, you don't have to pres preserve the inside, but we want to preserve the inside in the lobby because that's the interesting part. And what I perceive I can't is there'll be large scale photographs in the lobby. >> Okay.
>> So, we're going we're going to make you proud. >> All right. the the also mayor, I don't know if you I also recall discussion that the lobby would be accessible to the public during business hours um as part of that condition. >> That's correct.
>> Okay. >> I still >> So in the lobby, easily accessible to the public during business hours. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We recognize the challenge you have because you're taking what used to be a completely open to the public hotel and turning it into a private business.
>> I'm sorry. You said something about a hotel. I didn't hear. >> It used to be. So it was originally >> almost a hundred years ago. >> Yeah. >> Still have >> been a hotel for over 100 years, >> right? >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you.
>> Okay. This is a public hearing. Anyone from the audience wish to speak on this item? >> Okay. Then I will close the public hearing. Bring the commission for action. >> Okay. Um I I still have one more question. I mean, I just want you to
spell out number 10 for me. Just give me like an example of what of what would happen. I just want clarification on that when we're talking about if they're if um staff and um the property owner are unable to agree. So, what actually
happens? >> What happens is we schedule them for a public hearing before the planning and zoning commission. will then adjudicate the matter to decide whether in whatever the dispute is. >> Um what the planning and zoning
commission feels is on the side of the development order or the plan or the master plan, whatever the issue is. Mhm. >> Um trying to think of something that would be relative to this, but you know, say we told them they needed 10 trees up front and they say they only want to do
four and we say 10 trees is required and they say, "Well, four seems better to us and we're at an impass." It goes to the planning and zoning commission and they adjudicate whether or not four trees matches the master plan better than 10 trees or something along those lines.
>> If they um rule in favor of the applicant, then we proceed based on that ruling. If they rule in the side of staff, some other public hearing will have to occur in order to make that change. >> What happens if the dispute comes out of
historic preservation board? Would it still go to PNZ? >> Not on this. This is only if staff and the owner can't agree. If historic preservation board makes a designation and that designation is like say they deny or approve and someone withstanding
says that they are opposed to that they have to appeal it to this commission. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> And as of right now they don't have to clarify as a landmark right now.
>> Right. It takes time to process that, you know, paperwork and all that to get it to landmark status. But as of adoption of an ordinance and then the signing of the development order that the applicant agrees to all the conditions that are approved, they would be subject to schedule S from then forward.
>> Okay. >> Unless removed from the, you know, the ordinance later on through another public hearing plan development zone. >> Okay. Thank you, Andy. >> Any other questions? >> No, sir. Are we ready for a motion? >> Move to approve.
>> Second. >> Is that with the modification to item nine? >> Modification. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> All right. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? >> I passes 3 to one.
Okay. Thank you. First reading ordinance 4839. An ordinance to the city of Sanford, Florida, annexing by voluntary petition certain real properties tax identification parcel numbers 30-1931523
0000001A which is generally addressed as 405 Virginia Avenue located contiguous to the city of Sanford together with the associated right of way in accordance with the voluntary annexation provisions
of section 171.044 044 Florida statutes redefining the boundaries of the city of Sanford to include said property amending the boundaries of the city in accordance with the provisions of section 166.031 031, Florida statute, providing for findings, providing for
conditions, directing the city clerk to record the ordinance with the clerk of the circuit court, with the chief administrative office of Semino County, and with the department of state, providing for legal description and a map, and providing for the incorporation of that exhibit, repealing all
ordinances in conflict here, providing for severability, providing for non-codification, and the taking of administrative actions, and providing for an effective date. Mr. Mayor, members of city commission staff have reviewed the request for annexation and found the request meets the criteria set
forth in the Florida statutes relating to voluntary annexation. The property boundaries are contiguous to the city's boundaries and are reasonably compact. It is therefore staff's recommendation city commission approved the first reading of ordinance number 4839 to annex 39 acres into the city of
Sanford with the project address of 405 Virginia Avenue. >> Okay, this is a public hearing. No one from the audience wish to speak to this item. Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Brand the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. Motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
>> Any opposed? Passes unanimously. >> Um, that brings us to the appeal of the historic preservation board's denial of a CA. Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, it is the recommendation that the city commission oppose the Historic Preservation Board's denial of
the certificate of appropriation for request for 101 East First Street. The applicant was given multiple opportunities to revise and complete the plans for the new construction, including the elevator, tower, stair tower, craws, and pump house, but failed
to submit drawings that met the standards required under schedule S. Despite continuous access in several public historic preservation board meetings, the plans remained incomplete and lack sufficient details to evaluate their impact on the historic structure.
The applicant declined the opportunity to complete the drawings and instead on and insisted on the denial decision. In addition to unresolved design issues, the applicant includes expired approvals and unpermitted work and the site is
experiencing deterioration and safety concerns. due to the prolonged exposure and unauthorized occupancy. Upholding the denial supports the city's commitment to responsible preservation and ensure that any future development aligns with the standards and goals of
the historic preservation program and the elements identified within the comprehensive half. >> This is a quidal judicial matter. Um if anyone has anything to disclose, I did also speak with um Miss Sensson and Miss Scoffield.
Um and I've spoken with Miss Agnini about this item in terms of what are the um conditions that would be necessary to get to an approval. Anyone else? >> I have nothing nothing new to disclose.
>> All right. Soen the Scoffield who's up. >> Good evening. Eileen Henson, director of planning and with me I have Julie Adam Scoffield, our historic preservation
planner. Got a presentation for the historic preservation board action, the denial of a certificate of appropriateness for 101 East first street. So, the appeal overview, the applicant, Steven Heapner from Formworks Architecture, is appealing the historic
preservation board's denial of their certificate of appropriateness. They proposed alterations in new construction at 101 East First Street, a historically significant downtown property. The action before you is to uphold or overturn the denial by determining if
the submitted if the submitted information meets schedule S, the regulations, as well as other city policies. Uh the property owners are Ocean View, Sanford Condo Association, and Big Bubba Investments. As noted, the applicant is Steven Heepner from Formworks
Architecture, and the tax parcel numbers are noted. So, here's a site location for those of you unfamiliar with where the site is located. It's at the corner of First and Park. Very prominent location in the middle of downtown.
So, some building background. The building's a six-story building built in 1922 by George A. Fuller Company. It was designed by Mare and Uffinger. It originally housed the first national bank in Sanford's first skyscraper. It's located in downtown commercial historic
district and it's constructed with limestone, brick and clay tile on a steel frame. Few modifications have been made over time. My slides cut off. So u made over time preserving its actual architectural integrity.
So project history previously it was approved for certificates of appropriateness for window modifications and those CFAs expired in 2020 and 2023 respectively. No CFA has ever been approved for the
current tower catwalk or pump house design. The pump house was demolished in August of 2024 prior to meeting the development order condition that required them to have a development plan before doing the demolition. Then following the demolition, a CFA
detailing the replacement pump house and new elevator tower were required before any permits could be issued to do the work. So a stop work order was issued on March 26, 2025 for unauthorized excavation and staging of the tower foundation for which the COVID and no
permits had been issued. So code enforcement fines were active at the time of the stock stop work order. HPB then held multiple hearings between April and August of 2025 requesting a revised and completed plan. Final drawings lack sufficient detail and
clarity on the proposed construction. However, the applicant declined further revisions and requested a final decision. So, the HPB denied the certificate of appropriateness due to incomplete documentation and design concerns.
So, a little more on the building. The building has deteriorated due to exposure. Windows are broken or missing. Doors are left open. Evidence of unauthorized occupancy without electricity also raised fire concerns with the building. An open excavation
pit remained exposed for over six months, eroding into the alley and toward the building. Then these conditions underscore the need for coordinated preservation sensitive rehabilitation of this historic structure.
So the project proposal, the applicant aims to convert the upper five stories from long vacant office space to residential units. This adaptive reuse supports revitalization of downtown Sanford and preserves a historic asset, a key historic asset.
So for the location of this um on the lower right hand side is a blowup detail with the arrow of the lower left corner pointing to the lower left corner where it falls into the site plan. You can see on the left hand side is Park Avenue, on the north side is the
alley and then the back of the building. So this is that sort of white square off to the left telling you where the tower and the future pump house are going to be. So the project includes new access
features such as an elevator, the tow or the elevator tower, the pump house and the catwalk system. The features are not well defined in the current submittal package including inconsistent height elevation profiles and few dimensions noted to assist with understanding the drawings. So, these are a little more
zoomed in because they are it's small details on we tried to make it as big on the screen as we could, but you can see it. It lacks dimensions. It lacks detail enough to understand what's going on. >> Can I interrupt real quick? >> The packet that we were given at our
DIS, is that the same as what we're showing up here? Okay. >> Yeah, >> maybe in a different order, but >> Okay. >> We tried to make the PowerPoint logical to follow. So anyway, you can see that there's concern on the behalf of the
historic preservation board that the details and the renderings as proposed don't give enough detail to be able to understand what is happening and only three elevations have been provided. the internal elevation where the actual
access potentially to the hood to the tower is because you can see on these three drawings there's no side that shows you how you get into or out of the elevator. [Music] >> So after multiple hearings before the preservation board, the applicant
brought in um renderings as opposed to drawings to try to help explain what it's going to look like. So, these are the four renderings which I've broken up to look at them a little easier. You can see the southwest corner. So, sort of
looking up Park and at the alley and the parking lot behind it. And then on the right, you can see the west elevation looking directly at it from Park Avenue. So, this is the tower. It's difficult to discern
dimension and finishings and materials and sort of just a smooth white box. And then on this side, similar. This is the east elevation from the backside if you were looking at it um from the
parking lot. And then there's no north elevation for us to share with you. So, I don't know why your PowerPoint on the screen doesn't match the one that we had on the screen in our computers, but I'll read you what that's supposed to
say. So, it says schedule S. So, we're going to do an evaluation of schedule S. I'm going to read this. I'm going to lay it out, and if you have questions, Mfield will be answering them for you.
So, a property shall be used for its historic purposes or be placed in new use that requires minimal changes to the defining characteristics of the building and its site and environment. So, the residential conversion requires life safety upgrades, but design should
minimize the visual impact. The proposed tower exceeds the height of the historic building, making it the tallest in the district, and a less intrusive design, such as an abuing elevator tower, would better align with preservation standards. The prominent location,
height, and design impacts of the historic district environment overall are not in compliance with that section. The historic character of a property shall be retained and preserved. The removal of historic materials or
alteration of features and spaces that characterize a property shall be avoided. The window and door pattern are the character defining elements for the rear of the historic building. As you noted in the elevations and the drawings themselves, from what we can tell,
majority of that building side is going to be blocked, I guess, is the easiest word to use. So, insufficient detail was provided on how the catwalks would attach to the historic structure because we have no visual on the inside of that alley space.
>> And then new additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property. The word shall be differentiated from old and shall be compatible with the massing
size, scale and architectural features to protect historic integrity of the property and its environment. So clearly differentiated from historic building, but its finishes and details are not provided in the drawings. >> The tower lacks ornamentation, pedestrian level detail. The drawings
were incomplete and inconsistent. The elevations heights don't appear to match on the different elevations. The stuckle wall panels replaced open rail catwalks to meet fire code, but compatibility and detail still remain unclear.
New additions and adjacent or relevant new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired. So based on the current drawing, it's unclear whether future removal would
preserve the building integrity. The lack of detail prevents confident assessment of long-term preservation and impact. So, in addition, one of the things we looked at for the appeal, this is not as it was presented to HPB, but for the
appeal, the comprehensive plan, as we noted when we reviewed the 10,00 East first earlier and last week, >> there were a number of elements in our comprehensive plan that address preservation. So, the proposal fails to pro the proposal fails to prove that it meets the objectives to protect the
downtown waterfront district and its cultural historic resources. the potential adverse impacts on historic sites were not adequately addressed and the design fails to provide evidence that it aligns with the historic preservation goals or future
language use priorities. So the recommendation the recommendation to uphold the preservation board's denial of the certificate of appropriateness for 101 East First Street based on the following. The applicant was given multiple opportunities to revise the
plans for new construction, but did not submit drawings that met required preservation standards. Despite several continuences, the plans remained incomplete and lack sufficient detail. The applicant declined to provide further revisions and requested a final
decision. The application includes expired approvals, unpermitted work, and ongoing site deterioration and safety concerns. and upholding the denial reinforces the city's commitment to responsible preservation and ensures future development aligns with historic
preservation standards and the comprehensive plan. So the required action if it's upheld the denial development order will stand the applicant shall resubmit a completed certificate of appropriateness application for review. A certificate of appropriateness is required for any
exterior work including painting, signage, all construction as noted earlier in this discussion. And then building permit shall be issued by the city even if plans are reviewed by a third party. And then if overturned, the city commission shall provide specific
conditions of approval to be included in a new development order specifically referencing and adding to the architectural I'm sorry, specifically and referencing adding to the architectural drawings, not the 3D renderings in the application. So what's what's in the 3D renderings are for you
to see and understand, but that's not what the HPB provides their their approval on. The conditions have to include at a minimum height definitions and restrictions such as the height above the building, access to the roof, etc. Details for window surrounds,
building materials, door ornamentation, cornish details, pump house and base details including all dimensions, finishes, relief and materials, structural components, anything visual in nature including attachment points, braces, materials and colors, the
lighting types, location, design and method of attachment and all details on the north elevation including doors, openings, facade elevations, ornamentation, etc. These are all things that we're currently in need of to proceed with the project.
So, thank you. >> And any questions? >> Any questions for staff? >> Thank you for your specificity. Any questions? >> No, sir. >> Right. Then is the applicant um wish to
speak? >> Good evening. I'm Jennifer Ingler um from the Orlando Law Group, a council for the applicant. I'm here because if we cannot reach some sort of agreement here today, the next step would be to go to the civil court and file an appeal, which we're hoping
to avoid. Um, but I do want to clear up a few things. Uh, this tower is has been approved in 2022 twice and in 2023. So, it's a little bit confusing now that the historic board has said that the
building itself does not meet the criteria for the Sanford historical when um this building and its elevator has been contemplated for years. Um also, I think there might be a little bit of confusion um in regards to whether the
building meets um Sanford's code because um it's important for you all to know that 85% of this building is done inside. So, my client has, it makes it sound like he hasn't been doing anything and the windows are open and nobody's taking care of anything. That just isn't the case because it's 85% done. So, um,
and he's also paid over $80,000 in permit fees to the city. So, this is not somebody who's ignoring this project. It's somebody who's been trying to move it forward. Um, now, probably if I would have gotten involved earlier, frankly, I would have told him not to just come before you in this moment. But I think
the reason that he has done that after all these approvals um is because he feels like there's just no there's no winning with the historical board. There's no moving forward. Um in fact, in the August 20th, 2025 hearing that they had, staff actually recommended
that they approve the window modifications that were mentioned, the pump house, the elevator, the tower, the catwalks, all of it, but the historic preservation board decided not to. Um, I also have the comments uh that were made, the few questions that were
brought to my client to to be answered in this August 20th hearing. Um, they're very, it's a page. They were all met and discussed by the architect and there really just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of spirit in moving forward. Um, the architect is here and he can answer some
of the questions. I, if you have the package, I have the same package. You can see there are um, renderings. They do have measurements. Um, this has been permitted. Um, and I'm going to ask him to come up here and speak to a few of the concerns that were brought. But, um,
at the end of the day, if we have to go in front of the civil court, what we're dealing with is the historic preservation board denial. And all the denial says is that they have not um that it's not consistent with the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan and
development of the property. Um, and they even go on to say they don't really even have to explain why. they cite a case as to why they don't have to explain why. So I think I mean if you take a look at that, if you take a look at the plans that were submitted, if you take a look at the history, if you take a look at all of the approvals that have
come before when clearly the city has known what this building was going to be and it was going to have to have an elevator. Without an elevator, this building will never be able to it will not meet ADA compliance. Um I agree we probably need a spirit of working together better. Um hopefully they'll keep me involved so that that can
continue to happen. But um if we have to go to court based upon just this denial, I do believe we'll be successful because the denial isn't specific enough, especially in light of the history and especially since staff had recommended approval. We would like to move forward
with this. We think that the you all should deny should overturn the denial with some conditions. I agree. We all need to move forward. It seems like we're going around in a circle. the architect is here to speak to some of the things or some of the concerns or questions you might have so that we can move forward in a positive direction and
not have to go to court about this. >> Okay. Can we get some clarification on you said the tower was approved in 2022 and 2023. >> Yes, there was application number be my wingman. Um the application number
2022-115 and 2022-11 and also 2023-27. >> Give me the elevator. >> Application number 115- what? >> It was this. It's COA 2022. So it's -115
and then -1. >> Okay. So was there was an application. Did you receive an approval? >> An approval. >> Yes. Approval. The all of the three that I mentioned were approved. Yes, >> they were improved but the design was not
compound. >> Okay. Okay. And are those still valid? >> No. >> Okay. >> And I I mean again because we've been kind of going around in a circle. It's only six months. They're in the process of trying to extend them. We've been
trying to extend them for over a year. The elev I mean the he's even put the deposit down on the elevator which is half the elevator. So again, this is somebody who wants to move forward and has spent a lot of money to do so. >> Yeah. But we haven't really been going around in circles because I believe that the city of Sanford has worked extremely
hard to try to get this project completed. I know myself, I've met with planning, I've met with HPB, I I mean I've sat with the the owner of the property. We have worked very hard. No one has wanted to see this project um
come to completion more than me. So I completely disagree that we we've just been going around in circles because we've been working very hard with the applicant to get this done. Rules are just rules. >> No, I mean I agree with you. I mean and it see like staff has work I mean and my
counterpart here the architect would uh has told me that you all have had multiple meetings that you have worked. It seems like the difference is is that the makeup of the historic preservation board change between 2023 and current and that seems to be the holdup. Not really staff staff recommended approval.
We agree with you there. >> Well, and I think it upset them that the pump building was demolished without any permits >> and without approval. So, >> mayor, may I address that? >> Sure. We we had a we applied for and received a permit to a demolition permit
for the pump house which was attached it was it was planned to be attached to the tower and we we planned the smaller future pump house right in the same location. We we applied for and were
issued a permit for demolishing of the pump house. It was issued. There was a permit issued. However, the applicant signed a development order prior to applying for that permit that said they would not demo the pump house
until after the site development permit had been approved. And they demolished it before a development plan was ever approved. So they demolished it in violation of the development order that was issued. >> Right. >> Tell you what, can you why don't we walk
through the plans? And I think one of the main issues is what are the finishes? >> Is that correct? So let's start there. Walk through the plans and explain to us exactly what are the the materials and
finishes um for the tower. schedule S in in our review of schedule S uh they specify brick stucco basically brick and stucco >> and sir I when you came to the microphone if you'll just state your name and address please because I don't
think you introduced yourself. >> Sure. My name is Stephen Heapner Hn. I'm in 3280 Northwest Morland Drive, Orlando Florida. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. in our in our understanding of schedule
S requiring brick stucco masonry art, our in in uh in many of our collegial presentations with the historic preservation board.
They we've sought their opinion. We uh listened to recommendations from them. We had I think we had two pump house designs that were brick. Didn't seem to fly. We we'd suggested
carrying the cornice trim across to the tower from the existing building onto the tower. Tried that. That didn't seem to work. in our
latest uh in in our latest u presentation on the I guess they're not they're not the working drawings but they're the imageries threedimensional imageries we tried to pick up the instead of brick we tried to pick up the imagery of the
existing building and carry it across there you go carry it across horizontally to the uh to the new pump house and then the tower and the The elevator is surrounded by the staircase that goes
around it. So, it's it's sort of comes around on three sides of the uh elevator tower and it because and one of the reasons nothing's ever happened with this building is, you know, it does have to
have a sec second means of egress. that has stair and elevator inside. But we had to create a stair and elevator or second means of egress matching the existing floor levels on each level which many are different.
And the uh really there's there's minimal uh we've tried we've tried to preserve the existing building. I don't I don't think anything we're planning
if it were if it had to be removed would have u a great effect on the >> original building. >> The original building we just we have we have walkways that that just structurally tie into the steel frame of
the existing building. Um art to to uh to go on there. We we did we did attempt different uh finishes. U right right now we have painted stucco and
no brick but we have ma masonry that is is treated stucco as well. >> Along the way we found that uh can can we go to this one? >> Yeah. Because what I'm reading down here at
the base of the pump house is going to be concrete block matching tower color and stucco finish. What does that mean? >> That means the the the pump house is con constructed of concrete block. It has a
stucco finish to match the uh color and tone and articulation of the existing building. first first story. >> Well, it says it's matching the tower. The the idea is the uh maybe in
articulate, but we we were trying to pick up the style and finish of the existing building to carry it into the pump house and to that equivalent level of that finish on the on our tower. >> Okay. So that should read concrete block
matching first and second floor of the original building. >> Yes. >> With with uh >> see see how it's difficult for us to decide what you're going to do when that's what it says.
Agreed. The uh so the the block on the first on the pump house and the first two floors of the tower matches the existing block of the original building >> in spirit. It's it's
>> Do you say in spirit? >> It's going to be mean it's going to >> the intent the intent is to match it. The materials really can't be completely matched, but the finishes can be uh as
well as the expressed dimensionality of the pilasters trying to match the existing building or reflect them in detail. >> The idea is that we'll mirror what is already there for the first two floors. So, it's a contiguous line across.
>> Correct. >> Is that your ma'am? Is that your interpretation? Well, I that is I mean that's what the picture looks like. Yes. >> I mean that's what's depicted in the picture. >> Um
I guess then for the above the rest of it is stuckco. The rest of the tower. >> All right. And so it's supposed to and what color is that going to be? >> We're matching the existing building color. >> The existing building is brick. existing
brick existing uh building >> the side. >> So, so what you go back to one of the elevations >> you want to match that right >> there. So the picture to the left
you're telling me this color matches this brick. That color matches art. The Can you see the red dot? If you go around the corner of the brick over to the existing building right there, that >> that's that's painted stuck
>> right here. Right. >> Yes. >> That's that's the south elevation of the existing building. >> That's in the package. There's a picture of it. This side. >> Okay. So, I don't I I know that it's important for us to like go over all of
the details, but like literally what we were presented, it clearly says when we're talking about the pump house and the tower, and not to go into all of the stuff, but it says that the tower has no openings, textural
changes, ornamentation. The soft wall southw has no pedestrian level treatment. is the it's mostly a blank wall except for large openings with no trim depicted in the plans. The review was impeded by missing elevations, incorrectly labeled and renderings,
drawings was inconsistent with scale. We clearly see that right here. I don't even think that we need to go back because the evidence is here from what the staff presented to us. We're just going to go back and forth all night. It clearly shows exactly what staff
presented to us with what the pres the proposed um westside elevation that we're seeing through here. I'm I'm not saying that it's pointless, uh mayor, but we're going back and forth with them. We can clearly see that that that what staff has presented to us is ex is
exactly correct and we should just uphold the denial. I don't it just makes no sense to be going back and forth through all of that when it clearly shows shows it. because we wanted to move this forward. And these are the questions that were
not answered in their packet that we either need to get them to explain to us in person or we need to get them to write them on the papers that they submit. >> But it's but it's incomplete. So what what are we doing? >> Well, I'm going to go through every single piece of it.
>> Okay. and find out exactly what the plan is so we can see if it meets or they can now that they understand how they have to explain things. They could go back and and put it on their plans what they're actually going to do. >> But staff has already said that and
schedule less has already said that clearly of of what needs to be done >> to which and so now they're not going to do it. I'm not sure it is clear because in the denial there the denial is not clear in the last set of comments that they
addressed is all the comments were addressed. So I think that's the issue like what how much more the comments were addressed before the hearing and staff at the hearing did recommend approval. So I do think that I mean
maybe it's wonderful that you want to do it here mayor. That's very great. Um but there needs to be one more where it is exactly listed. I haven't seen anywhere where it's I mean today we've had a presentation. Um but even that isn't to the level of detail of what we're being asked. So we just need a list to go by
that will be the list that we all agree to and then if they can't provide it that's another story. >> But I've sat in meetings where we they provided list and and and basically handheld at this point to get it complete. I don't know what else we need to do >> there. So I can't speak to that.
>> Okay. So, can I say something there? >> Sir, you have not been sworn in. I I watched you when you were asked to be sworn in. I don't know why you chose not to. You may want to be sworn in now, but >> Okay. Go ahead and state your name. >> Muhammad. >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in
the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I hope you got >> a >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Okay. So just to light uh we were going back for an expired certificate appropriate
when we demolished the pump house we were given a building permit in error and that was stated in a court that they have taken me to uh code enforcement. So we were given a building permit in
error. So the building department made that error and we did this and in the grand scheme of things the the pump room has nothing of any significant value historically or to the to the building and we're basically going to build it
again. We were approved for the elevator uh for the certificate of appropriateness in May of 2022. I remember all the dates. I signed a an agreement with Schindler's Elevator in November 7th of 2022 and paid 70% of the
elevator of $146,000. I was given a permit that uh the city staff and Universal Engineering Science have actually reviewed and approved the construction of the elevator. So when I
was given the stop work order in March, last March when I came in front of you guys, you basically we we had we actually uh we called for an inspection for the footing. We dug the 10 foot deep hole and three foot was for the
foundation and two feet for the gravel and 5t for the the pit. uh the whole the city and one of the members of the historic preservation board came up with this that I am systematically trying to
destroy this building. I have spent $4 million on the interior already and we're trying to move forward. They told me this is a rubber stamp. >> Wait, who told who told you what was a rubber stamp? >> Mr. He told me this is a rubber stamp.
>> What was a rubber stamp? to get an elevator uh permit >> this 2025 >> because like I was operating under the permit of the whole building. We've got our building permit and then we did not start any work on the exterior till we
got our site plan permit. So in my eyes we have permits for everything. I never like why would I go and and and erect a seven um you know seven uh uh story elevator. Am I going to do that in the dark? And I've been trying to to to you
know to to to come up with the den but basically we were told to come back and go in front of HPV. HPV did not give us the time of the day. They would belittle Mr. Hapner. They would, you know, uh make fun of us. They would basically
tell us like you know we don't have the time for you. We send you back and forth and this that and the other and you can listen to all you know. So I I I don't I just don't understand where is the problem here. But remember, we were told
to go back for an expired, not a not approved. So now they're coming up with a list this big. Why our plans are inconsistent this this and that and other three years ago we were approved. >> Where where are the plans of the approved
um design? The building plans for this project have all been reviewed by a third party >> and the city issued a permit for the elevator. >> Okay. Excuse me. >> Sorry. >> Um I didn't mean to interrupt you, but
I'm understanding that there was a Ca issued that has expired for the elevator. Is that correct or not correct? It is correct. Do we have >> do we have the plans that were approved >> somewhere?
>> Okay. >> But these are not the same plans. >> So in coming back to renew an expired plan, we brought a different plan. Is that correct? >> The only difference, the only addition was the pump room that was demolished
and being built. So ask yourself just this little pump room is causing us to go back and forth six, seven, eight months and and and tell me like are you guys wanting to this building that's been vacant for 45 years to move forward or not? And I have shared with you
videos of the interior mayor >> and you have seen how far we're almost done, >> you know, and we were actually we are a victim of h a statement that my architect initially did in December of
2021 when we first submitted and it was the scope of work was interior work only. When we submitted to utilize the interior elevator and the existing fire escape, the fire marshall in the very first comment says you need an ADA
compliant elevator ADA uh compliant elevator and you need a second means of egress. So we start submitting plans after plans we stay with the building department for 19 months. Then Mr. Romano recommended that we go to third
party. We went with third party. The building department here has looked at all the the the 10 sheets, S sheets, structural sheets for the elevator. We kept going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. When Mr. Romano
recommended that we go with a third party, we went with universal universal engineering and science and they have approved those. So now they're are holding us hostage that we don't have an elevator permit just because our scope of war was never you know in you know um
um um what's the word like u you know replaced to say that we are building an exterior elevator but even though you are looking at plans that clearly shows an exterior elevator everybody knew this I have personally talked with the mayor
about the exterior elevator and how it can actually ser a future garage. That could be another thing for the garage. Now they're talking about the height. That's all what the fire marshall asked us for that we have a seventh story to basically serve the the rooftop. And as
a matter of fact, >> I thought that I thought the extra height was to get to a rooftop bar. Well, with with all that that that all the hardship that I've been going through, you know, I I've put that, you know,
elevator uh uh the rooftop bar or whatever it is on the back burner for now, but it matches the elevator shaft, the existing elevator shaft of the building, sixtory. If you look, you see the elevator shaft is a sevenstory problem. So, we have done everything
that's been asked of us. Okay. So, am I to understand that there are approved construction drawings for the elevator building and bridges?
Is that what I'm being told? >> Yes. From Universal Engineering and Science. >> Do does the city have copies of those? >> They should have. >> They should. They have >> the building the universal engineering science gives the the last the permit
issuance goes to the building. So the building official issued the permit. >> Okay. So, one of the concerns that I think HPV had was when you look at the schematics and you look at the
plans, it's hard to tell how the elevator levels line up with the building. But you're telling me you have approved
plans. So obviously that question is taken care of because you have a construction document showing at exactly what height these things have to come across to hit the floor. >> Yes, ma'am. >> So what we're really down to is what HPB
is always concerned about. And every time, everything I've ever had seen with HPB, they want to know things like colors finishes materials exterior design, right?
>> And so, is that really what we're down to? If they have approved construction drawings, they just have to wrap this with something that meets HPB approval. >> Well, our understanding is that the drawings didn't meet fire code in certain ways. the railings that they had across the catwalks had to be changed
out and now they're solid railings and they don't match what the permits that they got approved or the plans not the permits but the plans that they got approved from universal are not in compliance with fire code is what we've been advised >> okay so I'm I'm I'm I'm confused
>> so what you're seeing here is solid catwalks what the approved plans are not >> the universal approved plans are different >> that that is something that basically, you know, the the order of things is that you apply, you go to HPV, you go to the building department, you get your
permit, your work. That's exactly what I did. Now I'm one full circle back again. So for the fire marshall to miss something on the plan now that they said like, okay, we want the the the catwalks, you know, the height to be a little higher so nobody jumps from
either one of those. This this is very simple review by Universal Engineering and Science that should not be holding us to chair. And what really gets me is why did city staff recommend approval
in the last August meeting and today in front of the commissioner you guys are you know suggesting denial and to uphold. Why did you change your staff? >> How do we even approve something if it's missing elevations and is is
>> it's not missing elevations. We've shared the elevations with everybody. I've texted them to you, to the mayor, to Mr. Romano, to everybody. You know, I I'm I'm here to try and finish this project. And this has been my biggest
hurdle. I remember I've s I've seen you guys a couple of days ago, you know, ribbon cutting ceremony about a building that's was was built in 1977 and when you open it up, you have to change things in here and there. I'm dealing with That's like 10 times the size of
what the city has done and 100y old. >> I need to confirm performance is just performance and and go ahead. >> I'll ask a question please get a chance. >> All right. >> Commissioner, you you go please. >> Go ahead. >> I just want to confirm from staff. Do
you have approved plans and do these plans show elevations? later. We multiple times requested ahead so that we have a better confidence that the elevation works for
us. Did you recommend approval at at the HPV? >> I did. I thought we would have >> I think I'm not sure. >> Okay. So, >> they didn't they didn't accept meeting.
>> If they have drawings, >> they need >> construction drawings. >> Are we able to get through enough of what the design and finishes and materials are
to get to the conditions we need to approve this? Do you think? >> It's hard to say because a verbal approval That's really where I don't really know what that means. Replicating
how is that replicated? What are the details showing these details? I think that could have completed you know There's too many missing details. >> Basically, the matches of the building
the the building as it exists. There's a brick from the third floor up to the six facing Park Avenue and facing First Street. from the other side facing Magnolia and facing Second Street is Stuckco. So, we're basically matching
the stuckco of the exterior and the side of the building. And we even offer to replace the the front room the same exact way it was before, all made out of bricks. The the some of the architects that sits on the HTV, they say like,
"No, actually like make it all, you know, stuck so everything is easy on the eye." We did that. Then they come back and they talk about like what about this door open this way or this door open that way? How are you going to protect? So I told them like we already have a building permit for this and any
problems we should be going back to the building department or in our case universal engineering and science. They're holding us and every time they can just basically tell you like you know uh continuous continuous continuous as a matter of fact Mr. was the one that
told me go and ask for a denial and come in front of the But in in front of the commissioners, they, you know, they're business, you know, people, they want this to to move forward. This is a multi-million dollar project. Nobody has touched this in 40 something years. I just don't understand. Maybe like I even
offered everybody, you know, including staff, including the mayor, the the commissioners to give them walk through of the interior. So why don't you guys want to have this done? >> We do want to have it done. >> And and and you know, I've been going
since March. I have a permit. I still believe in my heart that I actually have a permit. I don't necessarily need an elevator permit. The project encapsulated an elevator. Why do I have to have a specific elevator permit? Maybe Schindler's elevator would have a
permit to come install the cabin and the doors. But me construction side, I'm building a shaft and a staircase. This is including in the plans that we submitted years ago. But they came up with this whole idea. You don't have an alligator permit.
What? You know, like we submitted plans for it. There's standard sheets. >> Well, submitting plans and getting a permit are two different things. >> We submitted plans for the whole building of the whole project. >> I thought you started with just interior. >> Well, that's that's December of 21.
And as soon as the the fire marshall said we needed an exterior elevator and an exterior staircase, we submitted the plans to show that exterior elevator. And in 2022, >> we got the certificate of
appropriateness. So now but they gave us the certificate of appropriateness, but today they don't. >> But the plan that had the certificate of appropriateness is has changed. That's not the plan you have that you're going to build, is it?
>> It the only addition is the pump room. >> Okay. >> So ask yourself, is the pump room that relevant to this whole thing? And we we asked for everything they wanted to see on the pump room. We wanted to replace it brick by brick. We wanted to one of
the architect that sits on HPV board recommended all stuckle to match with the tower. And then we start to play around and say like what we you know what if we bring the limestone that's on the on the bank you know the first and second story and match it with the brick
with the with the pump room and the first story of the elevator. >> Well so is the pump room and the first elevator first story of the elevator limestone or is that concrete block? >> It it is it is something that would mimic the limestone. I can't get something that's like 100 years old. >> Okay. I can help. Okay. But it would
stuckle look like >> this is this is what the historic preservation board is looking for. >> What is the exact material you are going to use so they can make a decision? >> We we said this sucker. We've mentioned subtle the whole the whole building
>> and you've mentioned concrete block and then you mentioned limestone >> looks like the mimics the limestone of the first and the second >> and and mayor like this doesn't really matter to me. Whatever you guys want to
see fits I'm I'm here willing to do it to move the project forward. Patrick, he >> Oh, >> did you ever ask your question? >> No. >> He probably doesn't remember it.
>> You remember your question? >> No. >> Mr. Muhammad came before us earlier this year. E earlier this year. And and and I I mean I got on Tony, got on Eileen and
and Patrick. We both were just saying how we need to be open for business friendly and we really need to get on this. And I I mean I sat at tables. I was banging my hand down. We have done everything possible
legally to try to to get this project moving and telling staff what to do. And I'm I'm I'm exhausted. It's it's too many missing missing pieces. It's nothing is clear.
I I don't I don't just looking at this, I don't even understand what what's going on because there's nothing that's clear that says exactly what the materials are going to be, what the note there's no specific notes details. They were going back and forth with uh if if something was expired, if it's
engineering, if it's drawing. I This is This is a lot. >> Well, put yourself in my shoes, Commissioner. I have. >> No, I'm sorry. Like, you know, you're not 4 million out, you know, in a project that nobody wanted to touch. Okay. You specifically told me ever since you were a little girl, you want
this building was exactly. So when HPB when the officer Julie recommends approval in the August meeting, the last meeting when basically the person that was not supposed to even be, you know, with them is yelling at me and telling
me that I'm systematically trying to destroy my own building that I have a track record sitting in the meeting >> and and I I said like, you know what, there is no passing the HPV
So, we can either move forward and try to figure out exactly what each material and each color and each design is or we can continue this and let your architect come back and and specify exactly what
everything is or we can deny it. I think those are our three choices. >> The requirements that we're levying are the same that we require for everyone, right? We're not treating this applicant any differently, are we? asking the same questions, quoting the same rules. I don't
>> I appreciate a lot the Let me finish. I appreciate very much the fact that you are trying to do something with this building that we want something done with. I I don't want to say you're in over your head. I know you've done a lot and I I appreciate that a lot of it inside but
the requirements are the requirements and I just don't get the sense that it's not that you're not trying to do it or that you don't want to do it. I think maybe you're not asking for help perhaps when you need it because the process is
the process. It's the same for everybody. We want everybody to succeed. We would love to see the building finished, but we can't go down a path of saying this is what we think we're going to have, but maybe it doesn't turn out that way. Maybe it doesn't even turn out the way you think it will.
>> You have a choice. >> I'm done. Go ahead. >> Can we um can we continue this with a list of what we're going to need to see to move forward? >> Yeah. But I would like to ask a couple
more questions before we get to that point. All right. Um, I will allow it. Thank you. >> All right. >> Thank you, Vice Mayor. >> So, Miss Scoffield, I'm still on the same um elevation. Okay. And
for I guess it's sort of the top and bottom of each of the railing walls, I'll call them. Um painted stucco on metal lab trim banding typical dark gray.
Do we in in choosing colors or or or approving colors? Is that enough specificity for a color designation? Dark gray. >> Actually, the color is not our at the top of our list in reviewing this. It's really what does the trim look like? How
how significant is the trim? You know, previously this was an open railing, so it had a very different appearance and that's what didn't meet fire code. So, we don't have very much detail of what that looks like. And that's similar for the uh window openings and the
doors. We don't know how they're trimmed out. >> So, you would like uh detail of the trim banding. >> Yes. Have you all told them that >> these things were discussed at the last
meeting and if I remember correctly that Mr. Hener was not at that meeting. >> 9 in exposed beam below walkway beam painted dark >> gray on their rendering colors don't match.
>> They can't even do it here. >> Painted black painted gray. We're asking about the top of the the top of the short wall there. >> And then what what do you mean by ex I guess it's exposed metal beam
>> right here. >> Yeah, we have we have metal beams below the catwalks >> that connects the power of the tower with the building >> same elevation as each floor. >> So are those like I beams? They are they
are narrow uh they're they're narrow beam sections. >> Would we be able to get pictures of those sections? >> Yes. >> Before y'all submitted this to us, were they informed of what they needed to
present to you all for approval? Did to was was it clear before all of this came to us? Did they know what they needed to do? >> At at each meeting, we're asking for the same thing. We need to see all elevations. We need to see the material
and trim details. >> And I mean, that's that's our point. I have the comments. They're very vague. And the denial, it has no details. So, it seems like we're down to very small things that can be conquered. And I have
not seen in writing where they what might have happened in a meeting. I have not seen anything in writing that they could go take to their engineer and say we need this, this, and this. >> If if I may, the same comments, I know you you you spoke previously about 2021,
and so you you're aware I wasn't at the party yet, right? But since May, I've been at every HPB meeting and since May, so first, let me address the mocking. Nobody mocked you because I would not have allowed it. No one mocked you. No
one mocked the architect. Not on my watch. It wouldn't have happened. But I can tell you at every single meeting, the same comments as to the incompleteness of the plans were addressed and there
are recordings of those meetings and they are incorporated into the DO. And so to say that you were not aware of them would be surprising. At the No, no, you don't let me finish. And then at the
conclusion at the last HPB meeting, I specifically offered you the opportunity to continue so that the continuing issues could be resolved and instead you sought a denial and I reviewed what that
meant and you still requested a denial rather than address the deficiencies. Now, I would also make note your architect was not at the last HPB meeting to even address the deficiencies in the plans that had been discussed since I'd been sitting on HPB as the
attorney since May. >> Okay. So, we went to April meeting and they denied us. And I think you were not in the April meeting. I think >> May you went into the May. So then we went to staff, sat down with staff, told them like how can we get this going
because initially we were told that this is a rubber stamp and remember I'm going back to get something that was expired not something that was not >> but you brought but to the but let me let me help let me help for a second the >> pump
attorney there were comments that were given to the staff and like I said these are the only comments I've seen in writing and they were responded to. So, I don't know. I mean, it's some of these questions are answered and they were answered for staff, which is why I
assume they said approve in the August 20th because the these questions are answered, the ones we're talking about right now. Some of them, not all of them. They seem to be evolving. >> No, they're not. They're not evolving. They're they're the same issues. But what I would as as mayor has said,
because at at the end of the day, our goal is to get to the location, right? And so would you be agreeable to and mayor I think this is is your uh recommendation to continue so that the deficiencies with regard to
the plan >> that was his idea. >> Oh I said it was one of >> give the vice mayor credit here >> vice mayor so that the deficiencies can be resolved once and for all and then those and working with staff and then
bringing that before the day is to resolve. And yeah, as long as we're basically gonna put a we're gonna stay this this denial and we say we're just going to continue it so that we still can have our remedy in court if we need to. I think that's appropriate. >> I'm a litigator. If you choose to go to
court, that's fine. >> No, no, no. We're going to stay the denial so that we don't our time basically put a pin on our time. >> Oh yeah, that's fine. >> Yeah, that's all. >> Right. So my point is all the deficiencies, the stucco, the matching, matching what matching when, the height,
all of that be addressed with staff by the time you come back before the city commission. And do you believe you need an extension to the December meeting or to the January meeting? I would personally recommend January. >> No. >> Okay. >> I won't come back in two weeks.
>> Uh it'll be four weeks. It's four weeks >> because of Thanksgiving. >> Staff, do you have time for that? because we'll need them to have time for us too >> January. >> I think it's very important that these are addressed in terms of a drawing with
clear notes, dimensions, the level of detail to see exactly what is being proposed >> because this verbal response we don't have confidence in that. >> Okay. So, >> because then we can mark up the drawing and all be on the same page. So, and it
will come with the construction drawing so you can see exactly how it's being done. >> Okay. >> Can we accomplish that by January? >> Since we're going I think our team, our staff's going above and beyond again
with allowing yet another list of requirements to be >> provided. Miss Miss Green, can you clarify for me now? You were saying that staff presented the applicant with all
of the information and he chose the denial or the applicant chose the denial. >> Yes. Yeah. He requested denial. >> Okay. So, >> so at the at the conclusion >> um once again once the plans were presented to the board
>> um the board >> almost as a consensus expressed concerns with regard to deficiencies, elevations, water materials, etc. >> I recommended a or someone recommended a continuence to
>> resolve the deficiencies. The owner was clear that he wanted a denial. I then specifically spoke to the owner and said, "If you do the continuence, you have an opportunity to work with staff and have the deficiencies resolved
>> at the next HPB meeting." And he was adamant that he wanted a denial. So that's what my question is now then is if he were he was given all of the information then and wanted the denial. Why would we then now say let's give you
a continuence when they go ahead. >> He has said under oath that it was recommended to him to ask for denial >> by Mr. remember >> and it also have something more important than that that one of the
members of HPV has basically posting stuff on Facebook saying that I'm systematically trying to destroy this and they all sit together they all knew each other you can you can see it you can see it when you go there and stand in front of them I want to stand in
front of you guys because you guys think business you guys want this to be done you know for the other people they just if somebody just Okay. You know what? >> Okay. >> They want it done, too. >> Okay. >> Okay. But you've got a sense of every
material, every color, details of everything. How is concrete block going to match limestone? How are you going to do that? Okay. What do the >> I mean, people often bring samples. >> What do the cornises look like? What is you know, like up here, new cornis style
black metal roof canopy painted stucco typical I >> I don't know what that means. >> So, we need detail of what exactly is that cornice going to look like >> and knowing that renderings are not the
same as plans. So, providing photos of what you anticipate it might look like are not the same thing as the plans that HPB has been asking for. What are we saying different than staff and HPB has said? Because I don't want people to
keep coming to to the commission thinking that they can override our other boards. What are our boards there for? If you can just come to the city commission and then we just say, "Okay, if what what are we saying different tonight that that staff and the commission, I mean, and the HPB
commission is is saying different because it sounds like they told they're saying everything that we said and he chose to to go to the denial and then for us to look at him differently. We don't care what anybody said on social media. Schedule S is schedule S. The
rules are the rules. Period. Point blank. I don't my judgment does not go by what your past whatever h happened or who may have said what. It goes by what you provided to staff and what's supposed to be approved. Now my question is again is what are we saying different
tonight that our board didn't or did say? staff recommended approval at that meeting with all of this missing stuff expecting conditions to cover all of it.
>> The same thing we're trying to accomplish. >> So, >> but so I don't know that we've told them really anything different. Maybe they understand it differently. Um all three of them are hearing the same thing at the same time. Um, you know, we we're
try we're trying to be open for business and get this thing moved. >> I mean, at the end of the day, what we're going to appeal is the their their order, and all it says is it's not consistent with the city of Sanford's comprehensive plan. It doesn't go into any of the stuff that we've talked about
here, and they do need to be placed on proper notice. We don't have anything in writing. Stuff that happened in meetings isn't in writing. And it's hard to say it's not in compliance with the comprehensive plan when it got permitted back in 2020 with a full set of plans and that use is being used and he's
already done almost all the work on the inside. I there's a there's a risk here that I mean whatever happened I wasn't there either but this doesn't comply with what we're talking about here today. This does not comply. Why why do we have why do we literally have boards if they can just if you're just going to come to come to us and
then we just override >> because usually it works and this project has not worked going through this plan >> and but we we we literally went through this earlier ear I'm fighting an uphill battle. I want the project done and I want there to be some teeth in the
matter so we can get some stuff done and not just keep coming to the commission meeting and then we just keep going back and then just blaming staff and then blaming the city and all of this. All of us want this project to be done. But what I mean I'm I'm still still confused.
>> You have not made one single motion tonight. Do you want to make a motion? >> I sure do. Are we are we able? >> Well, wait a minute. >> Okay then. So >> this is a public hearing. Is there anyone else in the audience wish to speak to this >> hearing? Do you all have anything else
before I close the public hearing? >> Can I ask the applicant a question? >> What? >> It's a Can I ask the applicant a question? >> Yes. >> Can you provide me the building number that gave you a permit for the elevator? >> The building permit number. issued.
>> I want a building permit number that says the elevator was issued >> now or later >> at some point so we can you the mayor is asking whether or not we have these plans and what they are and how they're different. >> Okay. >> So if the set of plans has 10 sheets,
you know, addressing the elevator, the construction of the elevator, the uh the foundation of the elevator, all that is that where is it? Does it say that I have to have a separate elevator permit in a building, you know, that actually needs an elevator to function?
>> But you're asking for the permit number for the 10 sheets basically. >> I would like to know what permit you're referring to that says he was given a permit to build an elevator shaft. >> A building I was given a building permit
for the entire project. everything we know. You've been given a building permit for interior renovation only. Doesn't matter what plans were in the sets. The permit was issued for interior renovation only. >> When you guys approved the SVP and you
saw the elevator on the site plan and you guys approved it, right? Yes. And basically the building that the you know universal engineering and science has given me an affidavit of review and approval of the elevator plans that
actually was in the same package to have plumbing, electrical, mechanical, you know, everything in you know and it includes the elevator in it. >> But no permit was issued to construct the elevator. A permit was issued for
interior renovation only and that's what the permit says and you've been permitted to proceed with all interior renovation that you have. There is no permit that has been issued to construct a new building on site. The site plan identifies the location and no
structural permit has been issued by the city to allow you to construct a tower that has an elevator and stairway in it. And that's a severe safety issue. if you construct a tower with stairs and an elevator six stories
high, seven stories high without a permit. >> But no one has done that, >> right? But he proceeded with digging the trench to begin the permit. >> Okay, let's move on. >> Yeah, I just >> Okay, if you have if you have permits,
>> I heard you say you believed in your heart you had them. if you could provide copies of the permits you have to our staff because they do not have these copies of permits and with the re with
the additional information for the CFA actually the the actual construction documents for the building will be very helpful along with details of colors materials um trim Okay. All the things that HPV
always ask of people >> has already asked. >> Okay. [Music] Okay. Unless anyone else has anything to say, I'm going to go close the public hearing. Okay. And we'll bring it to commission
for a motion. I move to uphold the historic preservation board's denial for certificate of appropriateness for 101 East First Street based on incomplete plans design inco incompatibility and failure to meet preservation standards and the city's comprehensive plan.
>> Is there a second? >> I sadly second >> in this question. I mean, I don't know why. I mean, denying it sends them back to HPB all over again anyway.
So, >> well, they could do a complete set of plans and be approved, >> right? Or we can continue it and just bring it back here and do that. >> So, >> my point is standing behind our historic preserv P preservation board. Also,
we've been here before and I've sat in meeting after meeting and I've gotten on staff. I've been very critical and at some point I've I I just cannot keep doing that. I I've I've tried to hold
hands. I've tried to ask questions. I've tried to see, you know, what could we do better? How could we hold hand? Where's the red tape? I have done everything possible that I could do as a District 1 commissioner legally to try to help move this project
along. So now I cannot sit here and just say, "Okay, well, we just going to continue it." At at at some point I've got to say, "Okay, well, we've done everything that we could do and we're listening at at I ain't going to keep reiterating all that. I put out my motion out there
>> and I was hoping we would hear something different that would give me confidence that we wouldn't continue to one step at a time have to keep fighting these battles. >> Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I.
>> All opposed? I >> Commissioner Thomas, I didn't hear you. >> I said I second to the second. So it fails to so that fails. So we need another motion.
>> That's true. We don't have Commissioner Wiggins. >> Commissioner Austin, do you want to make a motion or you want me to pass the G? >> Move to uh continue to January. What is the date of that meeting? >> The 3.
>> 12 or 26. >> Huh? >> 12 or 26. move to continue to January 12th with uh the stipulation that uh we'd be provided with better detail of what uh has been
asked for and is required to move this project along. Is there a second? Okay. Then I will pass the gavl to the vice mayor and I will second the motion. All those in favor? >> I I >> Let's just get it done.
>> Passes four to zero. >> Okay. Thank you. We'll take the Gav back. All right. So, we'll see you in January. >> Your work cut out for you. >> Thank you. >> All right. That brings us citizen participation. Anyone in the audience
wish to speak to the commission on anything that's not on the agenda? >> Okay, then we will go to regular items. Approve the property purchase of property at 300 West 2nd Street. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting
approval of the property purchase and associated cost from partial identification numbers listed in the agenda memo at 300 West Second Street between the Sanford Community Redevelopment Agency and Christopher Presser, Diana Kelly, Michael Presler,
Jeanie Pressler, and the Bellhop LLC, a Florida limited liability company. in a budget amendment with this within the CRA budget for $1,550,000 from improvements other than buildings to land. Okay. So, this is a purchase of property
using the remaining CRA funds and I believe they have plans to do some parking lot and streetscape there. Um, questions or a motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion to second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? passion unanimously.
Procurement to Bright House Landscape. >> Mr. Mayor, members, the commission, city staff is requesting commission to approve a renewal procurement for landscape services to Bright View Landscape Services Incorporated in the amount of $418,390. >> Questions or motion?
>> Wait, wait, wait. >> I have I have questions about this. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. While you're coming up, I'll go ahead and ask. Is is this the current company we are using?
>> Robert Bell Parks and Recre. Uh yes, this is the current company. This is their annual renewal. >> Okay. Are we going to are we going to impress upon them of a of a higher standard of of maintenance?
>> Uh yes, staff is staff is meeting with them on a regular basis. They're actually giving us uh uh weekly reports of of their their activities and where they're working. >> Okay. If we're going to uh have a contract with a company of this size,
um I want them to to have some performance standards. Um several issues over the years. Um yes. And I I I just don't think that should happen. So
>> we we agree. Um as a matter of fact, we're meeting with them at the end of the year to give them a end of year report. >> Okay. >> I've said my piece. I move to continue. I mean move to approve. >> Second. He was going to continue everything.
>> Is there a second? >> Yes, I did. >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. >> Two fire rescues. Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting approval to procurement of two new fire rescue ambulances from 108
fire safety. Funding is available in the budget in the amount of $797,000 796,98. >> Okay, I have a question. This um is this the full price or is this one of those where we come back later and have another payment? >> More than likely.
Okay, >> that seems like a pretty good price >> inside and out. >> Thanks to the chief's incredible negotiator. >> So, 400,000 for a fully equipped rescue. >> All right. >> The market already.
>> It's not that big truck thing. >> Commissioner Thomas says she'll vote yes if she can drive it. >> Damn right. >> I see we didn't pay we didn't pay for the expedited pricingly processing though, did we? And I want a hat to
>> move to approve. >> Second >> motion and second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Exxon Enterprise. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, staff is requesting city commission approval of procurement of body karma and taser equipment as well
as VR taser system and services from Exxon Enterprise and implementation of Exxon officer safety plan. The police department's requesting the amount of $437,766.80. >> Okay. And this is actually part of a five-year contract.
>> All in uh motion or question. >> Second. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? >> I love the uh Axon's VR training here, Chief. This is some good stuff. If they really train people to do it this way, I love it.
All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Change order for Corolla Engineering. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission. City staff is requesting a change order for the purchase order increasing the color engineering for services involved in the owner advisory
service for the design and construction of the Sanford main water treatment plant improvements for the abatement of 14 dioxin and the PAS in the water supply and the amount not to exceed 2,33,830. >> Move to approve. >> Second.
>> Okay. And um just to be clear, this money is coming from the grant um from the state, not from our user fees. All right. All in favor? >> Any opposed? Pass nastly. Um Northgate Limited. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, members, the commission,
city staff is requesting commission approval procurement of services for Northgate Limited for the replacement of four transfer pumps and piping at the North Water Reclamation Facility. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. Second. >> A motion. Second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanly. Shelley Septic. >> Yes. This is a request from staff to the commission to approve procurement to Shell's septic tank for disposal of bioolids to the estimated cost of 30
thou $350,000. Funds are available in the utilities other constructional services account. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Thank you. I know y'all. Any further discussion? >> No. >> All in favor? >> I.
>> Any opposed? Pass unanly. >> Um, the abandonment of the regular plan development. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, members of city commission staff stick to the part is recommending the city commission
approve the development order granting the request of the property owner to extend the ved. I have a request from Rarely or do you want to go first? Okay, go ahead. >> Good evening. Uh, we purchased this
property had a um PD that wasn't completed. So, what we're asking is to remove the PD and in addition to the RC1, we'd like to keep 402 Celery. Um, this is automotive since there's a tire shop in there. We'd like to add outside storage behind the fences on the
parcels. >> Okay. We can't do what he just asked in this motion, can we? >> No. >> Little extra step. >> Okay. So, let me see. So, we want to >> that's I'm trying to keep this going.
>> Okay. So, we want to remove the the PD. >> Okay. So, I'll give a little >> on the conditions of this is approved. >> Right. So, the applicant took over a property that had a PD on it. The history on the PD was when we did the Georgetown reszone. This property had
uses that were inconsistent with the restricted commercial zoning. Those uses were permitted to stay subject to the property owner at the time getting a plan development. That plan development was approved and sits on the property at this time. The plan development did have a caveat in it that said we could resend
the PD if it went vacant for six months or more, which at points in time it has. So the applicant had the opportunity to either go back through the PD resone to amend it for whatever they needed it to be for their new business moving in or
do the the recision back to RC1. They've been advised that the RC1 what the uses are permitted in the RC1 zoning which do not include the automotive uses and other related uses like warehouse and things like that. So in order to res like to resend the PD to go to RC1 staff
has no objection but the the >> but the uses he wants don't fit in RC1. >> Correct. Okay. >> So in order to maintain it >> how does he get the uses he wants? >> Correct. to update the PD and do the site improvements on the site with the proper permit.
>> That sounds like a whole lot. >> We've been at this for 11 months being told multiple different things by multiple different people in planning and zoning. We've done it. We wrote a $3,000 check. We've had multiple people not return emails. Adam's the only one
that actually gave us a list of steps to do. We completed them all and at the end they go, "You don't need to do that. Go before the commission." This is where I stand here. >> How we getting this done? How? How? Because I that >> this property is surrounded by property
that matches it. There's properties that are warehouses. There's properties that are fenced in. There's properties that allow outside storage next to it. There's automotive across the street from it in the same zoning just trying to fit in the neighborhood. >> How do we
>> or we can go back seven years of abandonment? >> How do we make these easy? I leave legally. How do we make this easy? >> He can return to RC1, do retail and office and whatever related uses are allowed in the RC1 and do the appropriate site plan to fix the parking
and such that have gone. >> But you but but we just said that it was already I don't speak the language. >> Okay. The plan development is in place but it's been vacant and the uses >> plan development was put in on the previous owners. >> Give me one. Give me one second.
>> Yep. Finished. No, it's fine. The plan development, he is correct. The plan development was a request of the previous owner in order to maintain the uses in lie of being reszoned to RC1 with the rest of that block for the Georgetown reszone. When we went through, if you recall 10, 15 years ago,
we went through and reszoned everything in there along Sanford Avenue to be neighborhood comp compliant with then reszoned to SR1 all the residential behind it. So, Georgetown took us a long time. We got the historic designations and everything and now this property
falls in a PD that the previous owner established for himself to maintain his uses. So we did not do a taking. However, he no longer is the owner and this is the new owner. >> Go ahead. No, go ahead. Well, I guess my
question is what you should make clear with the owner is what uses is he looking to obtain on the property because that's where staff's confusion has been in how we direct him because we've asked for uses >> and although I have not had direct
workings with Mr. Pley I have >> unfortunately I have a busy schedule. However, I have had staff work with him and they've kept me up to date on the project. So, >> so there's two uses. Uh, we're a retail store and we also, uh, provide service
and we have an office. That's exactly what that's what I want to move into. Um, 1123 on the property. There's four parcels, two parking lots, two buildings. Um, on 402, I'd like to keep the automotive due to the fact that
7 months ago, the city of Sanford issued a business license. We went through all departments, issued a business license for automotive, and now planning is telling me that we have to take that away, that it wasn't issued properly. So, [Music] uh, yeah. So, that's how that went. So,
he's moved in, he's running, and they said, "Sorry, the PD wasn't completed. You're new owners. You need to tell them to leave verbatim. I'm not making it up." And this is where I sit. So, I'd like to grandpa the automotive end on that. And I'd like to be able to open for retail.
And I'd also like to uh have storage behind the fence. >> Lindsay, is that legally allowed? >> What? >> What are >> And the business license? The business license and permitting are two separate things. And the issuance of the business
license does not >> I've had Darren planning and zoning. >> Not if I can finish. >> The business license doesn't supersede the permitting issue, but no, legally what is being sought is not feasible. Um Eileen,
if if there's some suggestion that you can offer to get him to where he wants to be. >> Let let me ask you a question. What uses are allowed on in the PD? >> Rental car, office, retail,
um dog kennel. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The warehouse that's there now, Mr. ator who was there had the um he used to do floats for big parades and stuff. It's allowed to do warehousing >> and he is allowed to do retail and
office which would be permitted in the underlying land use as well as the zoning. The back building is allowed for the tire uses. The site does need to be brought up to code and no outdoor storage is permitted and he's seeking outdoor storage. So, what we said was
amend the PD, which really isn't something that is permittable. I don't really know how we would do it because it's inconsistent with the underlying land use, but he's pursuing outdoor storage. >> Then why would we offer to amend the P PD then? >> We did.
>> But if you're saying why would why if you're saying >> an applicant has a right to ask? That's why I can't say no, you cannot ask. >> Okay. So >> if advised what he can and cannot do. >> So
outdoor storage >> behind >> is >> is completely not allowed because of the underlying >> neighborhood commercial. So the way >> Okay, go ahead. And there's no conditional use, no
infill, no no way according to our code to allow outdoor storage on that site. >> So that's where the PD question came in. So the underlying land use does not
specifically say to the outdoor storage element. It does say >> on there. >> It does say, >> okay, it does say that they have to be neighborhood compatible, neighborhood
type uses. And then in the overlaying zonings that are permitted in neighborhood commercial, do not allow any types of storage, indoor or outdoor. So those are what are considered neighborhood compliant uses per the zoning that's consistent with that land
use. But since the land use doesn't specifically prohibit outdoor anything because the land use doesn't define it like that. Those go to the land development regulations. He's doing a PD. It has a PD. We said amend the PD and you can ask the commissions. We'll
do an analysis and it'll be determined whether or not you can add the outdoor storage. >> But if it was the previous owner then he would have been been allowed to do it. >> No, outdoor storage is not allowed right now on that side at all. Even if before it. Okay. >> So,
>> so we adise >> if he >> uh one more photo. >> So, the photo on the right, that's what's fenced in. That's what I'm asking to use as a storage. >> Go ahead. I'm trying to get you there. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> So, it sounds to me like a path forward is amend the PD, but that would require that this commission approves out screened outdoor storage outdoor storage to be consistent with the underlying lane use after we do an
analysis. >> And what would it take to request an amendment to the PD? >> He did request an amendment to the PD did not turn in the appropriate master plans and the application expired.
>> Oh, sound like earlier. >> How long ago did the application expire? >> September. Because in this we were getting told different things. >> So we were going back and forth.
>> So is that within the time limit that we're allowed to reinstate an application? >> We don't really reinstate them. You have to ask for an extension before they expire. I can give an extension up to six months on a TD. If it within its
original expiration, this commission can extend it. But the request has to be staff that said that I did not need to extend it. >> So that in the meantime, the applicant has done improvements on the site without permits. >> Well, yeah, I was going to ask that. It
looks like you've been doing work there. >> I put plants in. We removed a slab the building said that we didn't need to do. We have all the certificate of appropriateness. Uh and we've painted parking parking lots. >> Okay. removed concrete, right, as he noted,
and added blocks. And none of this was done on a site plan, >> which building told us that we did not have to do >> a site plan. >> No, they said that we didn't need anything to remove the concrete or put the blocks down. >> You don't need a building permit, but
planning has been telling you since the beginning you need a sight development permit. >> Okay. I don't even understand and I'm not I'm not trying to get in between any of this. I just heard I just heard that the commission can can can do something.
>> Okay. We can override or whatever. Did I did I hear you say that? >> Lindsay, did I hear did I hear that? I don't know what >> I don't see what authority >> I don't see a viable option and Eileen if you think that there is a option I
don't see a legal viable option to allow for the outdoor storage. Is there something Eileen that I'm that in in your department that would make it viable? If it is then please set forth that for the mayor and the commissioners.
>> The the applicant applied for the PD res. The applicant has been refunded the fee for the PD res. >> No. >> Well, we've submitted for the refund. >> Excuse me. If I can if you can allow staff to finish talking and then likewise, I will not allow them to
interrupt you. >> The applicant did apply for a PD reszone. Staff has proceeded with processing a reszone. I mean a refund for that reason. So, if the applicant would like to resubmit for PD res and show where the outdoor storage would be and what the uses are in which
buildings, we can amend the PD because there is one. >> Okay. Is there is there a way to show us what what is around there? >> Not in these pictures >> because it's my my recollection that there's other outdoor storage around it.
>> I think it's a viable option. It's just a matter of getting there legally. Right. Staff cannot approve it. It's not something that staff can do at our level. >> We're the only person without outdoor storage currently. >> Okay. So staff can't do it at their
level. What can we do at our level? he can apply for a PD >> amendment >> amendment >> and bring us a site plan that shows where everything's going to be >> the master plan >> and we can decide if that is an appropriate
use at that site. >> Okay, >> we take so long >> and it >> we turn that in. >> Wait, this is on the corner of Celery and Oh my god. Okay, this is another example of how we get in the way. This
has been sitting here. That's where the tire shop used to be this morning. >> I rented it to another tire shop. He went down, got his license. He's been there for seven months. A month ago, I said I was told >> he's going to have to move out. >> He didn't go through all the process. He
has to move. I go, but you issued the business license and like got to throw him out. >> No disrespect to staff at all, but I really wish we get out of our own way. Um, >> you know, and sometimes it's not staff. Sometimes it's people going and doing stuff before they have the approvals to
do it. >> Yeah. But it's sometimes it's simp I'm not going to argue with you. Sometimes it's it's not as easy as it should be. >> I think there's definitely an issue with infill in Stanford. I don't I don't think the
rules or the way that it is, it holds it to the standard of a brand new building. um which makes it very difficult. Uh the zoning I don't think a lot of people understand. Uh >> and I think that's what's causing waves
in a lot of these. >> Well, can we can re reinstate the PD amendment application and provide the site plan that you say you already have? Well, re reinstate the PDF. >> They have to just reapply. We've
refunded it. We've withdrawn it. We've already just reapply but reapply with all the appropriate information. That's where it failed before. >> Okay. So, that's >> with all due respect, that's not where it fa you got to say your name and all that.
>> Kelsey Brierly. uh what filled before is that we were initially told that we would have to do a PD amendment >> and then we were told by another staff member that no we would have to do a complete new PD and then we were told by
another staff member that no we didn't have to do a PD we had to do a change of views. So this is where we are and I mean at that point I'm going to stop doing everything. So, you saw in the pictures that we've done landscaping and we've painted per
Julie's approval. Um, we put a brand new roof on. >> Looks nice. >> What's that? >> It looks nice. >> Thank you. Um, now with all of the confusion, we decided to clean up our property. We found heroin needles. We have found
dirty diapers. We have found crack pipes. We have found broken glass. um ammunition. So, at that point, we're going to clean up the best of our abilities before we can put our business in there. And all we
want to do is move our existing business seven blocks. >> Well, and the work we did do, and I knew the line that I was playing, was a very gray area. It was not needed for a permit. Depending on how many plants you put in is do we need a site plan?
So if when Dixie goes out and puts in a new row of hedges, do they need to do an entire study plan? This is kind of the what we argue back and forth on with staff. We did and it was grayer and I knew what I was walking on. But on the fact to deem this building basically unusable because you can't do anything
with it. I can open two things in there. I can do a smoke shop or a thrift store and not have to change anything. So, it's do we put a for rent sign up and see what comes or can we use the entire lot to the left? And if you go one more photo forward,
one more. The photo on the right is outside the storage. The warehouse is there has two bay doors that you drive out there. I've been told I can't park trucks there overnight, my work trucks behind the fence because that's considered outside storage.
>> Okay. So, do you want the opportunity to be able to do what you're asking to do? >> Absolutely. But I want to be told correctly. >> Okay. Well, I think it's pretty well on the record >> that it's a PD amendment application >> with a site plan, master plan that shows
where everything's going to be >> meeting the standards of a master plan that are laid out in the articles in the LDR. They're step by step. That was just approved by this commission in February. and it has everything that's supposed to be in master plan. There's any questions
then, you know, we can answer those questions. Once that information is submitted, we do a round of comments. We tell you what's missing, what's wrong, what's right, and then we go from there. >> Oh my god. Um, that's that's so difficult.
>> April, maybe. >> Maybe. So again, just to be able to park trucks behind our gate that are all tagged, all insured that move every single day, we have to spend >> And the original site plan was turned into you guys.
>> Yeah. Thousands more. >> Had all four parcels, had property lines, fence lines, parking spots, curbs, drainage, had everything. And then you guys told us to shift gears again, and we did.
Well, like I said, I was not part of the initial discussions. I was kept apprised. I'm able to answer the questions. However, if there's discrepancy, okay, I didn't get to speak with you directly. That
being said, right now, we're telling you what needs to happen to move forward. >> See, this is what I this is this is what I don't like and what I don't understand. And I I I I can't worry about hurting nobody's feelings. They shouldn't have to come to the commission to go through all of this. All All of
this back and forth is costing them money. To submit new stuff is costing them money. If we know that there's a way that we could get to this to make them successful, to make Sanford successful, then we should be able to do this without having to do all of this. I just I don't I don't understand. It It
seems like right now we're going to be able to find a way to get from A to B. Why the devil do we always have to come here to get that done? That's what's so frustrating to me. >> Well, then we need to change the code to allow staff to approve whatever staff wants to approve.
>> Well, you're the mayor rather than following the code. >> I mean, that that's we've set the code and said what they can and can't do and what has to be done and not done. If if we want to allow people to just do
without having to do go through the steps, then we have the power to change that code. >> But the steps are never clearly laid out, Art. And that's what has been the problem from all of the business owners who have complained. It's never clearly laid out. You get one one
area of somebody saying that you need to do this. You bring it back. They say you need to do this. I've said it I don't know how many times. Tell me how I get from A to Z. Instead of you just saying, "Well, you got A and B," and they come back, you bring B, then you got to go C, then you got to go D. I've said that a million times.
>> It's it's it's it's simple. We make it hard. I'm sick of being brought to the table when we don't have to be brought to the table. I'm not speaking a different language. >> Am I crazy or is both of these examples tonight of what the unbudsman is
supposed to be doing? telling you just thinking that very thing is I wonder where this would fit into this study. Is this an example of what we're trying to fix or an example of what's been improved? >> Is is that is that role not being utilized? Did did we create a role >> involved in this? But she was involved
in with >> well the Wells Fargo building, wasn't she? >> Yeah, she's tried that's a butt totally different. >> She came in at the end. This one should. >> And she said, "You won't believe this." And now I'm here.
>> She did. She was very pleasant to talk to. Nice. But >> you're a very patient man, too. >> And you're patient, too. >> So, what do you want us to do? >> I don't know. I was told to come here
and ask. So, I sat here since 5:00 to ask. I mean, if I I don't know why your staff tells you to come, you know, tell people to come ask you guys if you guys have no authority on doing it. >> We do if you make the application for our BD amendment.
>> That would have been great if that was told before I got here. I mean, that's >> okay. We're we're we're just going back and forth. >> Absolutely. >> We've got all night to to argue and complain and talk about what staff did or didn't do. >> Well, maybe you should know what your staff does, Art.
I mean, I try and keep it off social media. I try and keep it in closed doors to try to talk to people. I email people within the city. I know Carrie Wiggins, Patrick Austin, and Sheena. No. And Patrick Austin responded. I'll look into it. This was months ago.
I've had one of your employees stalker building and take photos over the last six weeks. Send it into code enforcement out of his way from where he lives. It's been pretty creepy. It's been brought up and I'm not using the word stock
lightly. Personal vehicle driving by before work, driving by on Saturdays and Sundays with his kids in the car, taking photos of it, sending you code enforcement. It's pretty creepy. Pretty hard to open up business in this town.
That's from your planning and zoning staff that I'm getting different answers from. I'm sick of fighting every battle. I'm tired of fighting every battle. District one is is a battle all itself. And I every week I'm sitting here fighting a
battle going with needing one business. My phone never stops. Emails never stop. I'm tired of it. >> Okay, somebody make a motion because we're going to be here all night not doing anything. >> Well, you're the one that calls this crap. [Music]
I mean, we've got a path forward or we can resend the PD, which means he still can't do what he wants to do and then he have to do a reszone rather than amendment to the >> but once he loses >> or we can leave the PD as it is. >> Yeah. If you remove the PD, he won't be able to go backwards. The only reason that
>> So, if we remove the PD, I have to ask the tire people to leave or I have to evict them even though they have a current lease and an occupational license that you guys issued. So that's I'm just trying to be very careful that if I end this PD, I have to go evict somebody. >> Sir, I want to be clear. Yes.
>> Okay. Then I cannot ask this guy put seven months of his savings in here. I can't ask him to do that. >> Okay. You talk. Go ahead. >> No, I I mean, I just want to know. >> No, you don't want to know because you're talking over me. >> Okay. >> So, the business license does not
oversee the issue of the PD. So what I recommend and and I'm sensitive to what's been expressed here on the deis. What I recommend is doing the amendment to the PD and going through that process. >> Okay. >> How long how long will that take?
>> If he submits a valid master plan, it shouldn't take long. The original submitt we got was just the plan that was approved as a site plan back in the 90s or whatever. That's or early 2000s maybe, but it was site plan. There was a site plan that was approved
for the site, not a master plan. >> And when you say not long, what does that mean for him? >> Well, we can't do it in less than 90 days, right? We can't do it in less than 90 days. With the advertisements and the hearings, the way they line up, it's 90
days. >> And find somebody to do a master plan between now, Thanksgiving, Christmas. So, we're literally talking six months at soonest. I don't think necessarily going from 90 days to six months. >> Yeah. >> I mean to get somebody
>> I don't know. I I just asked so that you have some idea as to what the time period is. So you've been told that if you submit what it is you're required to submit then you're looking at 90 days. >> It's 90 days once they have it. >> It's 90 days once they have it. But I'm
saying it's probably going to take me another 90 days to have somebody come up with a site plan through the holidays and then by the time it gets to them it would be another 90 days. So at that point it would be 6 months total. >> And y'all know that's what it's going to be.
>> But we can't amend the master plan without a replacement master plan. >> We're kind of at a crossroads here. >> No, I see it. And that's what originally was required with the first application. And what we received was a previously approved site plan, not a master plan.
>> We didn't master something else instead. So none of >> I have 11 months of emails to not one of them states master plan. I'm not going to spend, you know, thousands of dollars on a master plan and an engineer and an architect to go over all the plans and
sign a deal to be told. So, at a certain point, how far do you want me to go? Wait, I actually don't need that. I need something different. And now we're back to the beginning of we need this again.
So, can we I guess what we can figure out to move this forward is can we get an email and write because I've requested from four employees emails. Adam was the only one that actually came back with a list if you need this this this. We did all seven steps and we're
here with it. So, that apparently wasn't the right track. So, can we get a list that everybody would agree on on what we needed to complete to make this property usable for what we're looking at? And then if we complete that list, it would be usable.
>> Commissioner Britain, what I wanted to say is that I'm sensitive to the concerns that you and other members of the DES have expressed. With that said, we are still at the same place and I don't want to your time going back and forth. >> No, no, we're at crossroads on it, >> right? And so with that said, you have
the information now of submitting the application. Once it is submitted, then planning will submit comments to you to further the process. So there is now no longer confusion. I don't know if there ever was. I don't know. I was not a part of that. But there definitely as of
today there is no confusion as to what is the quickest way to get you to where you want to be. And I'm not saying that to assuage. Again, I wasn't part of those original conversations. But I'm telling you legally what's a viable option right now.
So what motion needs to be made? >> There's no motion that needs to be made. >> Well, so >> did they deny the request to resend deny the resolution or just >> get stable? >> You're not see I would not remove the PD. >> No, but the abandonment we have
>> and I understand the timing. I'm not looking for a timing. I'm not looking for the fastest way. This has already been 11 months. It's not it's not going anywhere. >> What I am looking for is if we can get this this is where it comes in. If we can get a verified email of the list of this is what you need and if we complete
that, we're through it. >> What you're going to have is you're going to go through planning and planning, please contact me and keep me in the loop as to this process. That's that's what's going to happen. >> That's hold. >> Mhm. >> Mr. Bonapart, are you available
tomorrow? >> Miss Sensson, are you available tomorrow >> on Veterans Day? >> Offices are closed tomorrow. >> Yeah, they're closed tomorrow. Good call. Next day, >> Wednesday. >> Wednesday. >> Wednesday. >> Are you available? One of you. >> I will be.
>> Can we Can we have a meeting? Get the list made. You guys move forward with Unfortunately, what you got to do now. Okay. >> No. No. I'm okay with that. >> Okay. We got if we're if we're going to do something with this property with you as the owner, this is the path forward.
>> Can we do that Wednesday? I support having a clear path to planning where we have something that we can provide them in writing. >> Okay. >> Do we need to move it in the following week which gives it with Veterans Day and then that gives them timing to I was >> going to say I don't know when I'm not trying to get them. You have
>> because you write on the money cuz you write on the money and you should be because that's exactly they're not going to be prepared. >> So if we if we roll it in the following week I'm okay. We can do a we'll do an email thread and get everybody on it and do the date. I just need to know what steps it is because it's in the code
exactly what they >> It is step by step in the in the land development regulations code. That's >> so you just need go through that with them. >> Okay. >> Okay. And give them a copy of it. >> Did you do a meeting with the original submitts? >> Yep. >> You did. Okay. So, we can already come
from them from now on to six months or however long it takes. You guys are going to be watching for it >> and it's going to be at the top of the list to do something with. They're quick to respond on. I mean, it's it's not a time of responding. It's a time of being told some >> We would work for two or three months on
it. And at the beginning, we weren't the fastest on it. I'm not I'm not blaming them on that. >> We would work for two or three months. We'd submit everything. Kelsey would go get all the paperwork and get a survey and get this in go, you don't need to do that. If you're going to do this, you need to do this. >> Okay. Well, you're going to have to
write a check. Wrote a check. >> Is there any motion that needs to be made to further this process along? I don't think >> only if you need them to deny the action that was requested, >> which was the recision. >> Right. We're not We're not We don't want to do that. >> We don't want to do that. >> So, do you want to deny it or no action
needed? >> We're going to table this tonight. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Cooler heads are going to prevail. We're going to we're going to get get some information together. >> Mr. Bonapart, I want you to follow up on this please. >> When would you be ready to meet with
them? I don't know how many meetings I've sat at with the city manager and and and [Music] we haven't been prepared. >> We'll be fine by early next week. We do want enough time to be able to take the code and break it down and step by step
what's already written in there, but make it so that it it's fully understandable the pieces that are needed. >> Okay. I'm asking you then to set up the meeting with them, include myself, when your staff is ready to meet with them and give them that step by step. >> And does Miss Green want to be in the meeting or no?
>> Just because you've noted >> I don't think she's I don't think >> I don't think it's necessary, but you had it. >> So, >> okay. All right. you've done. >> So, you weren't here for Miss H. No.
>> In terms of a date and time that we will be able to sit down with you and go through exactly what needs to be done. >> Okay. Perfect. >> And I'll be there. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You shouldn't had to come to us for that. >> Resolution 3425.
>> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission. This is a budget amendment has been prepared which will increase the expenditures in the general fund, public art fund, CRA fund, operating insurance fund, health fund, solid waste fund, salt water fund, water, sewer
capital fund, Mayfair fund and you see the different funds left listed there in the agenda report and it is for the budget amendment for $580,448. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Second. Um, any further discussion? All
in favor? I >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Resolution 3426. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commissioner, the city staff is requesting that staff be allowed to have the joint planning agreement between Seminal County and the city of Sanford has reached its expiration date and we'd
like additional 5 years to allow staff the time to modify the regulatory framework while continuing to benefit from its guiding principles. >> Any questions or motions? >> Is this is this needed? >> Yes. I I I'm keeping it simple, but it
>> What does this get us? >> It continues the elements that are in the joint planning agreement because right now it has expired. >> Okay. >> So, we are going to extend it from date of expiration for 5 years to allow us to work with Semino County. We've had some
issues setting up meetings in the past because of their staff overturns, but now we've got a a committee out of Mandarin have been working with their planning staff to make progress. We've got boundaries laid out with the new Lake Mary Boulevard corridor studies. The language is being drafted. So, we
are moving forward, but if we allow the joint planning agreement to lapse, there's all kinds of things such as utility boundaries and annexation requirements and elements of um consistent design and things like that that would no longer be enforceable if someone were to come and tell the city
that they want a PD that was non-compliant with something. So, this joint planning agreement is important to have in place. It had it has seemed like a giant waste of time to me >> and to me too. >> I haven't seen much progress out of joint planning with the county. That's
just my opinion. A lot of what you mentioned is is is to be blamed. But uh if we're going to uh if we're going to move forward with this, I want to see some progress. Otherwise, it it seems like it's just
bureaucratic. I would say that 20 years ago the JPA was very very important for everything we did. >> Exactly. >> I think the things we are trying to get into the J the new JPA will be equally
important. >> Okay. All right. But but I asked about this earlier though, unless it is just two totally different things. When I was asking for clarification on the JPA when uh the Midway Coalition was asking about all of that and we were saying that it wasn't needed and and and all of the
people were brought to the table. Now it's it's necessary. >> The component that you were asking for was something that was agreed upon in that JPA that the county could do a study and the city would support it. >> That one's in the county property. The
county also was part of the joint planning agreement when we did the Lake Mary Boulevard corridor study which has yielded an agreement that was adopted by this commission seminal county's board of county commissioners and the airport and those now have the standards that we have been adhering to for the Lake Mary
Boulevard corridor because it affects the airport it affects the county it affects us those elements are not in the JPA yet they are only the self-standing report that we've all adopted separately it should be embeded in the JPA as well as our land development regulations
which we have under zoning in progress for us to bring to you soon. >> So the results of the study are going to be implemented into this if we approve this. >> That's the goal. Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> I swear I asked I asked asked for this
before I had to even get into it with Mr. Green. This is this is what's frustrating me. I asked about all like like so I wouldn't be arguing back and forth with the Midway Coalition. Now it's it's needed. I did just unnecessary work. Go ahead. Move to approve. Second.
Second. Second. Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> I. Any opposed? Passion nley. Lake to lake regional trail. >> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting and recommending that the city commission approve resolution 3427 in support of
the lake to lake trail system. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Motion. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Okay. Any opposed? Passion unanimously. Resolution 3428. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting
commission approve resolution 3428 for a budget amendment to reallocate funds received from the PAS class action settlement in the min of 555,115. [Music] >> Questions or motion? >> Uh, in the original October 13th, the
amount was 369093. And that was a separate settlement. >> That was a separate check. >> Okay. So, this is just another draw from that >> big fat loan. >> There multiple there'll be multiple checks from different companies
>> or different parts of the lawsuit. >> So, we're not I don't we're not done, right? >> This isn't the last one yet. >> No, there's a lot more. >> We've got more coming. >> Okay. >> Is this going towards the new plan? Is this >> going toward addressing? >> I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. >> All right. Move to approve. >> We have a second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Passion Ashley. Resolution 3429. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, the city staff is requesting
commission approval of resolution 3429 relating to the project entitled construction of ultraviolet light advanced oxidation process with granular activated carbon to remove pre and poly substances 14 dioxin and other
triglycerides from drinking water prior to distribution. The project will be referred to as the 14 dioxin abatement project. >> What's uh can I ask a question? Yeah. >> Is this does this allow us to use the
the well that we had to close or does is that even needed, >> Mr. Jones? >> I thought we I thought we quit using the well that was out there. Uh oh, goodness. By uh Bentley.
Huh? >> We had we had stopped briefly and now we have reduced use of it. >> Okay. >> But it is it is in the rotation. >> But will this allow us to use it fully? >> Yeah.
>> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Passion Ansley. Resolution 3430. >> Yes. Mr. The mayor, members of the city commission, city staff is requesting commission approval of budget amendment and resolution 3430 relating to the
project entitled construction of the ultra violent light oxidation process granular activation as you had seen earlier. And this is the same one. >> Looks the same. >> My mistake. >> This is where it gets tough because they
all look the same. The only question on this one was it says except FTP shall require the city reimburse FTP in an amount not to exceed 24K. It that amount was 19. So now the not to exceed has increased but that's
their numbers not ours. [Music] >> Okay. >> Move to approve. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Pass unanly. Modification
of the lease. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, the staff is requesting approval for the modification of lease agreement, consent, assignment of lease, and assumption of the lease requiring the lease relating to the city- owned property located at 33
330 and 350 East Semino Boulevard. And the city attorney will provide information. This is the property that uh is currently or was occupied by Filamina's Pizza. The city owns the property, leases the land out. There was a lease uh to uh Colidio to 2072.
There is a proposed buyer of that property of the of the lease taking over the lease from uh Colomidio. The expected closing is on December 8th. Uh these uh agreements which are attached are for your approval, but they will be not signed. They will not be signed and
turned over until in fact there is a closing on December 8th, assuming in fact that it does go forward. >> Are we allowed to know what the usage would be
>> in in the agreement? The uh tenant has the right to subleasase. Uh we don't have final say as to what that subleasaser will be um as part of the agreement. the other terms do continue with regard to the rent etc.
>> So I'm thinking of some things that could be subleasased for that I don't think we weren't on the river wall. >> Is Eileen still here? Miss Hensson like >> Miss Hensson Eileen,
you know off the top of your head the zoning for the Riverwalk building >> and what is allowed and not allowed there? >> Oh, mayor, just to be clear, it would have to adhere to zoning requirement. Right. >> Right. So, I'm just wondering what the zoning is.
[Music] >> Okay. which does have some things restricted. >> Okay, >> that was a good question. >> Thank you. >> But as the land owner, we don't have any
say once we we do a lease. >> No, not in the this is a continuation from the original language that was entered. Mind you, the lease has has turned hands two if not three times. Um, and so that original language is
still in there. I will look to see if there are any restrictions at all with regard to the sub lease, but it is continuing on that original language. >> Okay. >> All right. Move to move to approve. >> Are we waiting to find out? >> Is it SC3?
>> SC3. >> All right. And that excludes some of those things we would not want on the riverw walk, right? >> Special commercial. >> Okay. and >> okay what
I don't want I don't want some of the uses there that we already have downtown. >> We'd like it to stay a pizza place, >> right? [Music] >> I have only return. I know the clerk's office gets upset if I'm not near the
microphone. >> Yes, I do. So, I'm I'm just going to put it out there. It is what it is. >> Smoke shop, >> retail sales, >> cannabis
uh dispensary, >> that's a pharmacy. If it's a true cannabis dispensary, now if it's one of those Dr. Feelgoods that hits the loophole, it's just retail sales. >> Dollar Tree. >> Retail sales.
Yeah, I don't like this. >> I just don't >> You think we would be able to um get approval to some restrictions of use? >> It's your district. >> I agree. But if it's ballry, I'm going to be in it. >> I know. I will assume. So, I'm just saying,
>> mayor, um Craig Radzac, assistant city manager. Miss Lindsay and I have been working Green has been working close on this. the previous lease and I didn't get to review the materials but you this commission in the previous lease you got to approve sub leases as well. >> Okay. So maybe we should add that into the documents to be signed that you
approved the subleas leases as well because when Calamino Calamudo did it before you all this body had >> but that still doesn't I mean the the overall >> well could put whatever they want in >> well it's SC3 yes
>> it's SC3 >> bail bondsman >> but still you would approve the subleas leasey though >> I can go it's not being signed until the closing goes through. So that gives us time if I I can negotiate that with the potential
buyers and also go back to the original agreement just to confirm whether in fact you have that authority or not. So I I can simply confirm that. >> Okay. >> Okay. So we should should we continue this? >> I I would go ahead and approve the the agreement. Um again, you're not going to
sign it until there's a closing and that gives us time to tweak it. Um, and I that is also included in the agenda item that you have the option to make any alterations prior to it being signed at the closing. >> Deal. Move to approve. >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? [Music] >> City attorney attorney comments. You were going to share with us something about the mediation. >> So, we attended mediation last Friday.
It was a good discussion with regard to exchanging of information. While it did not resolve at uh mediation, that does not mean that the matter will not be resolved. In my 25 years of litigation, it's not rare for a case not to be resolved at mediation, but discussions
to continue on. It is moving forward, but it was a great exchange of information. >> Fair enough. >> I'm sorry. Mediation for what? for the 14 dioxide. >> Okay. >> Different from what we spoke about earlier. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Moving along as expected. >> Moving along as expected. >> And I have no further comment. >> Okay. >> Uh, city clerk's report. >> Um, yes. I just wanted to remind you all that Wednesday the 12th starting at 5:30
is government preview night at the zoo for the Asian Lantern Fest. I don't know if you got the emails. Us it'll be chilly. >> I'll be dressed there. Um the other one is you have the
proposed commission meeting dates in your binders and I'll bring forward the resolution at the December meeting if you don't have any changes. >> So I wanted you to look through that.
And the last thing is um Miss Green has today's agenda sitting near her and you can see the size of it. We are encouraging you all to go paperless >> with the tablets in the laptops and that
includes the city manager, the city attorney. >> We tried that before. >> The assistant. We're trying it again. >> We tried that before. >> If you get something like this, you can write on the screen >> 10 copies of that thing.
>> Do you see how You can write on your tablet. >> Write on your >> I take too many notes. I'm I will try it. I What is this? >> Write in your notebook. >> I'm I'm I have to I have to honestly
respect to people who when they write it goes from their hand to the paper to their brain better. So if you are like that, respect. Would it Would it be better if everybody else went except for me then you only have to do one paper packet? I will try though, Trade Cat. I
will I will literally try to to to >> meeting on Wednesday um with the city manager to go over it. We've met with some of the um folks who are already doing agendas and we're hoping to go with our software on in first January
meeting. >> Yay. >> So that means the departments will not be submitting paper to me. They will be submitting them electronically. But then you have to realize at the end of that I still have to print that out
10 times. >> You know, maybe a compromise is you only print the agenda memos and none of the other stuff. >> Yes. >> Well, that would save you. >> That would be lovely. >> That would be about 900 pages of the 1100.
>> So no, but no attachments contracts and here are every that's >> all the backup would be online. Yeah, we can look at it online. I I I look at it online all the time while here. >> It messes up my flow. >> Change is good.
>> I know. Progress is our friend. >> Trees are good. You're always talking about the trees. >> Don't call me out. >> Always talking about >> Oh, we take down screaming at my house. >> I'll try. I'll I'll I'll try it, but it's going to be difficult. But I'll try
it. >> And Have a nice Thanksgiving. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> City manager report. Before Thanksgiving tomorrow, the city is having our Veterans Day parade. Veterans Day program 11:00 at Veterans Park. And I
tell the public to please come out. It may be chilly, but we are having the program. So, thank you. >> Okay. >> I can forward you the one the script that I have. Um, okay. Anything else? All right. Um,
Breezeway, um, grand opening was fabulous. >> Um, I don't know whose idea it was to bring in, um, Fantasmagoria, but, uh, was that your idea? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Can you believe he danced? >> He did way better than I thought he did.
>> What a Yeah. So, but um no, I think and I'm looking forward to the um what I'm expecting to be a very positive improvement and our customer service um because of that. Um don't forget to uh
turn in your city manager evaluations if you have not done that yet. And I thought I had one other thing, but maybe I'll remember it. Um, Commissioner Thomas, >> uh, November 4th was and Lisa sent out a
link to Good Day Orlando. We had a nice, uh, jazz trio that we had for sound stage was on the TV. So, that was fun. Next day, I did Girls in Government at South Seol Academy. That gives me like youth today, uh, gives me hope for the
future when I hear the kids, the girls especially, interested in government. What a shocker. um grand reopening of city hall. We talked about Asian lantern festival. We talked about 126 is the grand opening of the Mayfair Clubhouse. So, anybody who's interested in that,
come and join us. And that's all I have. >> How do you like that? >> Not bad for a rookie. >> Commissioner Austin, um I have a couple of things. I think uh Miss Lindsay said I have $80,000 left. >> Sounds about right.
>> Yes. Or was it eight? >> That was 800. >> 800, huh? >> Y'all be having that much. >> Well, it's a new fiscal year. >> Um, so
uh I want to request for a public purpose to make a donation of $500 to the mass media department at Siminal High School. >> Move to >> Okay. >> Okay. I had that moved to. So, who did it? You you move to approve. >> Okay. Second motion.
>> Okay. >> And I don't think I can do the other one, but I'm going to ask anyway. Can I do 500? >> Let's do this. >> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. Uh, can I do $500 to the girls soccer team at Simo High School? >> Is that for a public purpose? How can
you define it as a public purpose? because I'll say I'll second >> because they need the money and they're not supported by uh by other ways. >> What are they using it for? >> Uh they have to pay a tremendous amount of uh referee fees that have already
been taken out of their account and they are in the negative and I wanted to help get them out of the negative. This doesn't even get them out of the negative but it helps get them close. Attorney Green, >> it's not it's so it's not the normal
process for the referee fees to be taken out before their season starts this year. That's how the county did it. They took all their funds out of their account. They now don't have funds for uh the balls that they need and and
other stuff. >> I interpret it as a good purpose. I don't know if it would fit under the strict definition of a public >> purpose and that would be my only concern. >> That's fair enough. >> But definitely a good purpose. >> Okay.
Well, then uh the last bit is uh $2,000 towards your um Sanford Main Street cause. >> Towards my cause. >> Our cause. >> I'll take it. >> Well, you're the one that Okay. But >> you gave money earlier, right?
>> Yeah. Well, I said I would. We'll we'll wait until next meeting and and so but I've heard 8,000 total, >> right? >> Yeah. So 8,000 total. >> That gets us to work with, >> but we make a motion on that next
>> and 10,000 from Commissioner Wiggins. >> All right. Thank you. >> Um and then kudos to everybody involved with the uh grand reopening. Tony, I gave you a world of grief over the last 16 years the project was going on. Uh
but but it turned out fabulous. And uh and you're now in charge of all construction projects, henceforth. >> Speaking of projects, >> and kudos to the public art commission. That sign is amaz I love that. >> And they will pressure wash the rest.
>> Wash the building. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Can we fix that or or softwash that problem? >> Okay, second. >> All right, I'm I'm done. Thank you. >> Commissioner, >> um first things first, uh um Cindy, did
you find out how much I did last year? >> 1,500. Okay. So, this year I would like to do $2,000 for a public purpose for the Jasmine's Jubilee held by SAO. They are the same um promoters that do Junth and the autumn festival and they will be
having Jasmus and that will be going towards the stage and city cost of the rental of Tui Park. >> Second. >> What's the date on that? And I second. >> Second. >> I think it's December 8. I got it. All >> in favor? >> I
>> Everybody has already said it, but I'm going to say it again. I was so impressed by um the uh the grand opening. I was so impressed by the ceremony and when I got the scissors, Tony, I literally cried. Um it is so
important to me um that I leave a legacy here. And when I saw my father's name on that those scissors, it did something to me. My father is no longer here, but he worked for the city of Sanford for 30 years. And um it just touched my heart. So I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was not expecting
that. Those scissors are in my Christmas tree right now. >> Jeez. Can it hold them? They're heavy. >> Just how much? Um Claudia, I will be joining you tomorrow. >> At the um >> the at the um ceremony. Um but I heard that
it's going to be really cold and I don't know how we're going to deal with that, Lisa, with the wind and stuff out there because it's supposed to be 40 something in the morning. I heard Jerry uh is going to hold heaters right in front of you. >> Yes, ma'am. It's going to be brisk. Uh
dress warm is is about all we can say. >> And make your >> I'm parks and w so that was >> I'm going to borrow Christa's toque. >> Uh there is a reception inside of parks and wreck for our speakers and elected officials. So come in and we'll get you warmed up before we take you out.
>> Okay, that sounds good. >> And I have it on good authority we have some hand warmers. >> Okay. All right, it's not going to be that cold. >> That completes the district one report. >> That is all. Then we are adjourned.