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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=am3d2t7brn4

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we on. >> Okay, we'll go ahead and call to order the meeting of Sanford City Commission um in budget work session for July 8th, 2026. Um, Commissioner Wiggins is on his way and Commissioner Thomas, I believe, is

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online. Is that correct? Okay. And >> affirmative. >> So, Mr. Bonavar, >> good afternoon, Mayor, members of city commission, and the city staff. This afternoon, we're starting the process of the preparation for the proposal, your

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review of the proposed fiscal year budget for the city of Sanford. A lot has changed in the last couple of months in terms of property tax. Later this year, the citizens of the state of Florida will get a chance to vote on whether they want to see a change in their property tax. And that

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will definitely affect all the municipalities and the counties in the state of Florida. Tonight, we are presenting to you our proposal for the city's 27th fiscal year plan. I first of all would like to thank you for taking the time to be with us. I would say it

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was a beautiful day outside. It was. and you are now here. So, thank you. I also want to particularly point out city staff for Miss Lindsay and her staff and the finance office and for all the department directors and their staff in putting to together this budget as you'll hear from Miss Lindsay in a

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little bit. They started this in February and we're bringing it to you now for your consideration. The proposed budget is balanced and it does call for a mil decrease of 0.1%

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or.1 mil. Uh Cindy has indicated that with a 7.7 7.225 mil which is a one.1 mil decrease, the average homeowner over a 10-year period will save $18341

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or $18.34 a year. It will however cost the city over $9 million in that time period. The proposed budget before you however does not take into account all of the requests of the department directors and you have before you a list of various

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positions. There are 26 positions that were requested that are not being funded. We had capital requests of about 20 million of which 5.9 million is proposed to be funded which means $14 million is not recommended simply

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because we don't have the funds. As I said, we're also looking at the impact of the proposed property tax proposal that the city the citizens of the state will be looking at come November. If that passes, the city would look to lose

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$6 million the following year and the year after that another $3.3 million. So in the two years, we would lose $9.3 million. Today's session is not the end. It is the beginning of the process of you reviewing the proposed budget. If in

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fact you feel that you'd like to have additional time at the end of today, there is a day next week that's already been designated for continued discussion. So, at this point, I'd like to introduce Miss Lindsay to go over the presentation of the budget, after which we will have her go through the departments, and then you can ask

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whatever questions you have. Our job is to make sure that you feel you have the information you need so that we have a budget that provides the best services to the citizens of Sanford because they deserve that. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Benart. Um, as he said, we are going to present to you the 2027 proposed budget for your consideration. And, um, I just wanted to point out our artists on this page. Um, this year we did, um, a student, um, art, the middle

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for our budget cover. The middle one is the winner. Her name was, um, Joselyn Her and she's an 11th grader. And the second place winner is on the left of the screen and her name was Everly Bombgardner and she was a sixth grader.

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And then the artwork on the um right is some other artwork that's just displayed in the um budget book that was submitted as well. Lovely. All right. Um our agenda for this presentation is to look at our timeline. Um look at our um general fund revenues

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and expenditures and how they've changed um and the recommended budget from 2026. Um just to go over our adorin tax and the um what is going on with that with um the 0.1 mil um decrease and also the

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um new um asaloran tax rate that um information that we got from the property appraisers office looking at our future needs that are are possible on the horizon. Um talk a little bit about the new financial transparency law and then we'll open up for um discussion

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before we move on to the departmental budget. Um, as Mr. Bonapart said, our um, budget did start in February, actually on February 9th. Um, we did the kickoff meeting um, with our department and um, one of the tasks for them this year was

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to try to keep their budget flat. Um, no increases. Um, we weren't going to have the revenue. We already seen the revenues not increasing like it has in the past and then we had the 0.1 mill to deal with decrease on top of that. um they were did have to submit their CIPs to us

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by February 27th and their departmental budgets by March 6th. Some departments did switch those two around which was fine. Um they wanted to do do them the opposite way which we did this year. Um then we started um the reviews with um

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departments um on April 20th through the 30th. And then on May 4th through the 14th, we met with the city manager and all the departments to discuss their proposed budget. Um the property appraiser did um submit

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their um taxable the preliminary estimate of the taxable value to the city on May 26th. And that is actually I think about a $15,000 increase in revenue over what is in the actual proposed budget. Now,

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um June 29th, um we submitted the um proposed budget commission. Um and today is where we're at um for first budget workshop. We do, as Mr. Bonafart said, have a second one scheduled for the 15th if we need um to have that one as well.

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Um you do have to um u approve the tenative millage where we can get that to the um property appraisers office by July 27th. And then um August 1st, we will try to do the final changes to the budget and um notify the um property

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appraiser by August 4th of when what our proposed millage rate is set at. Um what the roll back rate is and the date and time of our first public hearing, which is September 14th with with our second final hearing on the 28th of September.

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This is our budget outlook um compared to 26 to 27 for um general fund revenue property taxes. This is with the 0.1 mil um decrease in it. Property um taxes are going up about 2.4 million about 2.77%

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increase in revenue. Um utility taxes um and other taxes are going up um less than a percent. 08 to be exact. licenses and permits is um currently cut to go down um about $500,000.

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Intergovernmental revenue um up up about 167,000. Charges for services down um over the current year budget about 324,000 fines and forfeertures almost flat with other revenues increasing about

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$900,000. And then the other side of that is our expenditures. Um 27 expenditures compared to 26. Um all of the um departmental budgets are going up. Mostly it's all from payroll expense expenditures with

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transfers out going down um about one and a half% overall. And we'll go over each of those um after the presentation. And then this is just a summary of expenditures and where they're going up

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and down um in um cost personnel is our biggest um driver $3.8 million with health insurance being a million salary adjustments budgeted almost 1.8 8 workers comp about 840 adjustments to FE S FTE funding from

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other funds about $ 109,000 with um operating expenditures going down overall $6,400. And you can see the ups and downs um in the categories of operating expenditures with the biggest decrease in promotional

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activities and the biggest increase in professional contractual and professional services. And then um non-EP departmental expenditures are going down 1.1. Um some increases like health insurance for retirees. Um debt decreasing 350 and our

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CIP decreasing about $880,000. This is a comparison of our Avalor taxes to public safety expenditures. Um our public safety expenditures are in the light blue. Um, our Adler taxes are in the burgundyish color. Um, as you can

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see, our public safety expenditure shares outpace our AVL taxes currently. Um, that has not changed over the years. Um, it's gotten a little better since 2013, but um, still it outpaces our um, Avalor taxes.

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And then this is um, a snapshot of our Avalor taxes. Our um 26 um year was 7.325. Sorry, try to blow that up a little bit. Um this our um 26th year was um 7.325

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which um gave 46.6 million to the general fund in revenue. um at 7.325 if we um kept it there we would be getting additional 3.3 million um since we decreased it to 7.225

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um we're getting 2.6 this is decrease of about 682 due to the 682,000 due to the 0.1 mil decrease. Now, um we do have the option of going to the roll back rate, which would be an decrease of 2.3

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million over um the um last year. And we also have the option of going up um.5 mills or up to 10 mills if we would like. Um an increase of.5 mills would make an additional 3.4 million over the

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current budget. Um this is a snapshot of all the seminal county cities and the county and what our property tax um costs are to a single family homeowner. Um city of Stanford their total tax bill for 2027

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should be around the average $3,200. um we are only higher or going to be higher than Longwood, which their total tax bill would be about $3,158, about a $43 um difference. And if you look at that same sort of

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information except on a per capita basis, again, Longwood is the only one that is lower than us with Stanford paying about $414 a person. Um, Longwood would paying $399 a person with Oto

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being the highest per person. >> Are are those charts in the budget book? >> No, they are. >> Can you send those to us? Thanks. >> I have I do have handouts later of them too, but I can email them as well.

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>> Um, future needs. Um some of the things that are not in the current budget that um are on the horizon are being asked for looked at. Um possibility of adding um $3.6 million in operation equipment and additional up personnel for station

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40. That would be for the tower um if we got the tower truck. Um approximately $1.5 million in unfunded addition requests from departments. Um and that's on a sheet that should be in front of you that I passed out. Um it's mostly new staffing being requested of that.

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The um station 40 is um personnel on that. Um new fields and westside operational costs. Um we're looking at that new um ball field. Legislation requiring firefighters to work less hours. Approximate that would cost us approximately $4 million if that came to

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pass. Approximately $14 million in general fund unfunded capital requests. And that also is in front of you on a spreadsheet that I um put on your desk. Um future needs to reserve levels. Um as I did the presentation

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um previously and I talk about quite often um reserve for um general fund should be a minimum of 25%. Currently we're at about 17.9. So we're in deficit about $6.2 million. um debt requirements too um in order to

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avoid if we have to issue debt our interest costs costing us a lot more um we would need that um operating reserve higher um CIP reserves um we should be setting aside $3.3 million in reserve plus whatever we spend on capital which

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isn't even enough as it is um and this [clears throat] should be above our actual CIP usage um which is currently $5.9 million And we we would want to do this to keep our C our capital um assets in good

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shape and not sitting at the point of failure um which currently we are um doing that with a lot of our assets. They're sitting at a point of failure just like we see with this air conditioner in city hall a lot of times.

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Possible reduction in revenues of 9.3 as Mr. Um, Bonapart mentioned um 2028, if the um property tax reform um passes, we'll lose 6 million. Um 2029, we'll lose an additional 3.3 for a total of a

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9.3 reduction in the general fund budget from today. Okay. So, we also have new transparency laws um that we have to abide by. They are effective January 1 of 2027. Um, and there are lists of them. Budget

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calendar has to be posted on the city's website by January 30th of each year. Employees names, job titles, and salaries, and year-to- date gross pay posted on the city's website quarterly. All proposed budget amendments must be posted on the city's website 5 days

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prior to being presented for adoption. Um, detailed searchable records of all employees travel expenses are post should be posted on the city's website. an interactive budget book posted on the city's website with specific information. That specific information

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is already in our budget book. However, our budget book is not what they consider interactive um currently and we are working on that. um a budget exercise to be held um each year at least 14 days prior to the approval of the proposed budget and posted on the

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city's website to cut the um budget by 10%. um without affecting essential services and um a new law that passed part of this is a supermajority vote is now required to approve a millage rate that is greater than 110% of the roll back

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rate. Currently our mill rate um proposal is is less than that. Um, but if it was to be more than that, it would require four out of five versus the three out of five it currently requires. >> But that doesn't go into effect until next year.

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>> I'm sorry. >> That doesn't go into effect until next year. >> Right. Correct. January 1, 2027. And that's all I have for the presentation. Um, if there's any unless there's any questions, we'll head right into the departmental budget.

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>> Any questions? Any questions at this point? >> Not at [clears throat] this point. >> Okay. I said not at this this point. >> I don't know cuz aren't we supposed to open up discussion later? >> What >> aren't we opening up discussion later? I

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was just double checking with Cindy. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, we'll ask questions as we go, right? >> Yeah. On the departmental budget. >> Yeah. >> How do I >> I'd like to show you the budget. >> You know, you're not supposed to save

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all your documents to your desktop. [laughter] You weren't supposed to see that. >> Okay. >> All right. So, um we'll start with um city commission budget. Um I did also um put a two-page um sheet on your um on

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the DIS2 for fleet maintenance when we get there. And I'll remind you because there was a mistake in the budget with the numbers on where they were placed. Um but I'll remind you that. Okay. Page 82, city commission. Um, currently this budget is set to um

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go up $17,000 for about 15,000 is in personnel costs um and 2,341 in operational cost. >> I have a couple questions right in into that, Cindy. Okay. So, the email that

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you sent us showed us the new salary that's showing the mayor making 32 and the commission making 26. When I added that up, I got 139,000. But when I'm looking at 2026 budget in 2027, I don't see those numbers anywhere. So, even though it's a a

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missing of like 2 to three grand, I'm trying to figure out how how that works out. Um well the executive salaries it should it's in that number the 147 the 11 um 1100 account number um the very first

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one um but that includes also like ad pays and stuff and I don't remember exactly if y'all have anybody gets um health insurance subsidy versus taking the city's health insurance and things like that. So, is that the difference of the that 2400 that's there? Because

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again, I'm still don't I don't >> Oh, the 2400. >> The 24 I'm just trying to figure out where where the the numbers are coming coming up. >> Let me pull up that sheet for you. >> Okay. Cuz I'm I'm I'm basing it >> and it's actually too low because the numbers I sent out I didn't have yet.

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And so this is a little bit lower than what the um actual raise will be. I had to make some adjustments to that. >> Okay. So, our budget for 2027 is going to be different than the 139. >> Yeah, because I did not have the um

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raises yet for this for y'all. I just did an estimate. >> Okay. Now, does that happen throughout the budget? Because that's I'm I'm This is going to help me from asking 101 questions as we go on >> for personnel. >> Yeah. >> Now, personnel can change daily. >> Okay. >> So, somebody leaves, somebody comes in,

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they make a different salary, that that whole personnel budget changes. So personnel budgets are estimates. They always are because like I said, they can change daily. >> Okay. >> Where are you reading 139? >> I know

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>> because if it's 32,000 for yours, >> then 26,000. >> Yes. >> Um >> I kept looking in the budget book for 139. >> Well, that I didn't see 139 there. So I'm like I'm seeing 137 and 142. Our numbers come up to 139. That's why I was

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asking about that. >> Yeah. Your actual salary is 13904 I believe. >> O346. >> Yeah. >> And then you have um other items. I think this this is just the estimate. Your actual salary is actually going down over this not up.

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Yeah. We have more money this >> a tiny little bit of more money >> and the travel and predium and the other charges and obligations. Is that where we have um

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the youth trip to Tallahassee? Is that under >> you have your hotel bill and um any food or anything like that is in there? Yeah. >> Uhuh. Cuz I was like that's a lot. 15,000. What are we doing? But then I remembered we talked about that in the budget.

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>> Are you going? >> Mhm. All right. Next is page 87 is the city manager um budget and this budget is set to go up 33,835. Of that salary and benefits is about 39

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and there's about a 5,000 decrease in operation. What are we doing in rentals and leases for the city manager's office? Um, the top. >> Can I make a suggestion on page 70 for the final budget?

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>> Page 70. Yeah. >> For the budget summary, can were we list city manager, can we notate that that actually includes um economic development and communications? >> Their whole whole department,

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>> right? >> Wait, I'm Wait, say that again. On page 70, it says the city manager is 3.5 million, but that includes economic development and communications and

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um neighborhood engagement. And so people don't go to page 87 to see what it actually is for just the city manager. >> Okay. Can I can I ask a question just just since we were talking about the

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because the economic development and community development are under city managers when we're looking at like the FTE numbers and I'm I'm I know I'm skipping but it's important if we go to page 302 and it's showing all of the

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full-time equivalent um staffing levels. >> So for city manager's office it shows five, right? But then technically it's three. If you're going to be able to say, "Well, communications has two and then economic development has two and

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then community relations has 1.5." Like, help me understand how those numbers don't get mixed up because technically it should say three instead of five. Correct. Because now you're adding more people to the department. >> No, city manager's office has five.

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>> Okay. But then >> communications has two, economic development has two and a half, and community relations has one and a half. >> How many who's in who's in city manager department? >> Um for city manager, it is

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um Pam, Mr. Bonapart, Frag, >> that's three. Elizabeth. >> Who's Elizabeth? >> Oh, uh, intern petition. >> Oh, got it. >> All right. Now that helps.

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>> Okay. Okay. So, are we done with city manager? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. We'll move on to communications which is on page 89. Um the communications office budget is going up 80,629.

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Um 34,000 of that is personnel and the increase in operations. There was a decrease but there's offsetting increase of 35,000 for I believe the YouTube and 13,000 is for grant for the um

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I forget what it's called. >> What's the 34,000 increase >> for the um closed caption? >> Close. >> Now why is that falling under communications and not under it or finance? Because they're the ones in charge of communications. That's part of their budget.

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>> Okay. Now, [clears throat] what bothers me is the printing and binding has like severely gone up. So, >> communications >> and communications because I'm looking on page 89, I line item 47. Like literally, I know that we're doing

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citizens academy and all those other things, but in 2023, it was only $45. Jump up to now we're at $53,600. What What are we printing in >> the resident guide >> for $53,000? 53 5300. Is that

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>> I'm seeing 53,600. >> Yeah, that's a typo. >> 5300. 5600. >> Okay, that's a big difference. >> Oh, no. Um that that includes the granut

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um the granicas and the the other um the YouTube stuff that's coming on for >> So, it's not really printing, >> right? It's in the wrong line. It should be 4600. the extra. >> Okay. So, where does that fit in? So, when I add this up, I can say this. Where where does Granicus now go?

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>> It's not It's new. It's the new items that y'all asked us to get um for um >> closed caption. What What else are we doing? >> It's just closed caption. >> Okay. So, but >> and where they can see the screen on

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YouTube versus being far away in the closed caption. >> But if you say it's not, then why how do we have 53,000 here? You're saying it's not >> included. It's too long. It's not. It's in the wrong account. It should be in 4600 instead of spending money. >> So, but it's already listed here for that that goes into that total of 383.

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>> The total is normal. >> Okay. I just want to put >> it's just in the wrong account. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. >> Why would it go into 46? >> All um software goes into 4600 >> at state state of Florida.

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>> Can I can we go back? You said uh the increase is 30 something thousand in salaries. What is that for? >> It's just the raises the 4% raises and then also the new employees different salary than old employees.

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Is it against the rules for us to see salary employee I mean employee salaries? Why aren't they listed? Um I I'm I'm not sure is because we never see employee salaries. We see like a percentage. So, I don't know how much

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the new person is making. I don't know if we're not allowed to see that or not. Why is that not shown? >> We just don't show that in our budget book. >> Yeah. But I mean, we've seen that those spreadsheets before talking about salary plans. So, we can certainly see it. >> I'd like to see it. I mean, that would

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been would have been nice to see it separately, but it's okay because you asked us if we had any questions and I didn't send it to you, so it's all right. >> Well, it's going to be available online next year, right? Yes. Starting in January. >> Apparently, there's some website you can go to and it has the whole nation.

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>> Oh my. >> It's rounded out. >> Okay. Communications. >> No, because promotional activities has doubled. [clears throat] >> So, we went from we're our budget for 2026 is 7,300 and now we're at 18. What

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are we doing differently? Um the citizens academy cost >> are we having more classes? Did did >> No, it's um the food cost for >> Wow,

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>> that's a lot. And then also um the social media page booth um increase as well. Wait, we're boosting social media post? >> No. Okay, >> you're not. So, I can take that out of

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your budget. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear. She said they're not boosting. >> She She says they're not boosting social media. >> Okay. So, then we're doubling the amount of food.

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It's just the food cost of rent. >> Not doubling the amount, just the cost of it. >> Well, that's >> that's from when we went went to bid on all the food things. >> Yeah, but that wasn't Citizens Academy. That was the commission. >> That's for the all any food the city

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purchases. >> It was everything. >> Jesus. >> Which by the way, we never went back out to bid again a year later like we were told. But don't get Patrick started on it. >> We'll talk about that another time. Haven't been a year, has it? >> It's been over a year.

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>> I believe March was a year. >> Okay. >> Well, that's an incentive to join the citizens academy. You don't eat good. >> Pretty good food. >> All right. Any other questions? Wait. But

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never mind. Carry on. >> All right. The next um Wait a minute. Is Commissioner Thomas still there? I was just checking in with her. >> She's asleep. >> Okay. Okay. The next is the pack budget. It's on page 253. >> Why is the pack budget next? 253.

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>> I have the wrong page. >> 253. >> 244. 244. Is that because it's under communications? >> 244. >> No, it's a special fund. >> That's special revenue fund. >> All right. Got it. >> Oh, there it is. Public.

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>> Oh, it's on page 263. Sorry, I wrote 253. >> 263. >> 263. The pack budget. Okay. Because I have it on 244. >> That's the summary. The detail is on 263. Um, this budget is around $8,500

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over um 26. So why did we eliminate for the rest of this year? >> Huh? >> Well, then we need to talk about this is this is foolishness.

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>> Commissioner Thomas. >> Okay. Can we understand it? >> You waiting for [clears throat] question. Sounds like she's six. [clears throat] >> Explain the 53,000 again. She was asking to explain in communications the 53,000.

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[laughter] >> Oh, okay. Oh, for communications, Commissioner Thomas, the 53,000 um includes an increase for the Is that correct? Um increase for the

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[clears throat] um closed caption, which is about um a $48,000 increase um over 2026. It's just in the wrong account. It should be in the um um here's the 4,600

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account versus the printing and binding. What are we hearing? I'm not sure. >> Hey, can you hear me now? >> Yeah, we can hear you. >> You got to hear. >> Okay. It was earbuds. I had earbuds in, but uh that was apparently affecting your ability to hear me when I talk. So,

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I think we're good now. >> Okay. >> Did you hear my explanation on the um 53,000? >> Uh no, but that's okay. I'll make notes later. I don't want to hold us up. >> Okay. I think you said it was in the wrong line and it's really 5300.

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>> No, that the the printing and binding is 5300, but the um change goes into the account right above it and it's for the closed caption [clears throat] increase the change. >> All right. Gotcha. Thank you. >> And that's to keep us 88 compliant.

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>> Okay, Bob, we're good. Something requested. >> I don't think it's necess. It's because we want our residents to be able to see better what's going on. It's not I don't think it's required. >> Yes, that's important. >> But we can't speak into the mic for

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$53,000. >> I thought you were one of the ones that wanted >> Not at $53,000. Yeah, I did. I thought that it was neat. I didn't know that it cost that much. >> It's It's actually 48,000 um increase expensive.

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>> I ain't going to nickel to dime it. I'm just saying I didn't when we said it, you know, I know people are able to do tons of things on, you know, I just didn't know that closed captioning cost that much. I ain't against it. Moving on. >> Okay, back up.

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>> Commissioner, that's live close caption. Closed caption is available now, but not live. >> Well, they Okay, got it. Thank you, sir. >> Back to pack. on the pack budget um a decrease of about $8,500.

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>> Okay. And then Commissioner Austin's question. >> Can we clarify? So, we've told PAC not to spend any more money this year. Well, at least not moving forward. There are ideas in terms of what the current um

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statutes and the um artwork that is currently on loan and looking because that loan program ends next year and we're looking at whether we can acquire permanently. So we don't have empty silhouettes or empty um stations once we

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return the the statutes, >> right, >> or the sculptures. So, we're looking to see what we can do so that it's not left where we can maintain or contain the sculptures that we have so it's not just empty next year.

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>> Okay. So, what is that? Why why was there funding suspended for this year, but we're looking at increasing it next year? It work >> to make sure that in terms of what's in the budget this year that we go ahead. The proposal is here. As the commission

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goes forward, you will decide how much PAC gets for next year. >> Well, we decided last year and then you went against us and you told PAC they can't spend any more money this year >> until we figure out >> you arbitrarily overstepped the commissioner's decisions

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and decided to cut off their funding for this year, but you you've presented us a budget increasing their budget next year. that wasn't explained in the uh information that was sent out to them. What you're saying today is not the same as what you said to them. I don't

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understand what's happening, but we'll discuss this Monday night. I don't want to hold up the budget meeting for this. >> But but this is part of the budget. >> We'll discuss what what happened this year Monday night. I'm glad to see that

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public art is still important at the moment, but apparently whatever we decide in this budget can arbitrarily be changed by you on a whim without even talking to us. I have a problem with that. >> What do we need 10 grand for for

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promotion? What are we promoting? >> And and what? and online item 4,800 for public art. >> But for public art, um I think that's actually that's a donation to um >> art festival. >> The art festival.

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That's public art commission. >> I Okay. >> That was moved from elsewhere in the budget and put there. But we're the arts festival. Art festival is phenomenal. I love it. Not

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against it. But we are cutting back on other events and funding. And then the art commission gets 10 I mean not the art commission, but the St. John's River Festival of the Arts gets 10 grand basically from the city under the art

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commission fund. That's it's like a slick way of doing it. Well, and call that a I mean, that's what we decided. That's not there's nothing slick about that. We had the conversation and said that that funding should come from the art commission. >> I still think that it's a slick way of

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doing it. Whether we we we said yes, everybody said yes or not. That doesn't mean that I agree with it then. Talking about it now. I'm just saying we're cutting back a lot of events. I'm again, I have to always clarify that I'm not against anything. I'm just saying we're cutting back from events and

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the city is going to give >> What events have we cut back on? cutting. We're we're not because we have the the majority of our events were covered by CRA and so we had to cut back from that because the CRA sunset and so we decided that we weren't going to be giving out you know funds and that we

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would have that conversation with the commission on how we would try to keep events here and basically the festival gets 10,000 from the city underneath the art commission.

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I'm just pointing it out. >> What is it? What is the 79,000 professional services? >> Um, it's a variety of items. Um, it's 10,000 um or 30,000 for murals.

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Um money for 4,000 for utility wrap sculpture purchases um landscaping for the for the sculpture um siminal cultural art galla and attorney fees.

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>> Okay. So that there there's the important part attorney fees. what what is the attorney fees that they have to pay and why why are they having to pay it out of their budget? >> Anytime that any department or um

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program uses attorney fees, they pay for the attorney fees. >> So that's taken out of every other budget we talking about today. >> Except the general fund is all in one po portion, but utilities pays for their, storm water pays for theirs. This is a separate fund. Um it pays for theirs,

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CDBG pays for theirs, building fund pays for theirs. Yeah. >> But don't we have just one overall attorney bill? >> Yeah. But every program pays for theirs or the budget wouldn't be done correctly because they're not paying for their whole cost. >> Okay. So, it's not that they're paying

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something different. >> It's just their portion. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Anything else on art commission? >> Cindy question. Yeah, >> it looks to me that we might have

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shifted some money between other contractual services and promotional activities. Is that true >> under public art? >> Um, hang on a second. Oh, never mind. I skipped to the next page.

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We're good. >> Okay. >> Okay. Then on to economic development. >> Okay. Um economic development um is on page 92. Verify.

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>> Yes. 92. Um >> well now you know what my question is. >> Um it is set to go down $21,571. It's an increase in personnel costs of 59,000 and a decrease in operational costs of

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$80,67. >> Is other contractual services a typo? >> The 3525. >> Yeah. >> That includes the question I had because,000. >> What' you say?

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>> The trolley for downtown. It's $250,000. because promotional activities is going down 4,000. That's why I was wondering if we might have shifted some money between those two categories. >> No. Um no. Um last year it took on the CRA's

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costs um and other contractuals. Um so last year's budget um was 343140 which was an increase over all the previous years because it took on the um trolley. it took on the farmers market operations. Um,

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and that was it for the other contractual. >> Okay. What's the decrease in promotional then? >> Promotional decrease um mainly um city sponsorship and marketing supplies.

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>> What was the first one? >> City sponsorship. city sponsorships. >> It went from 1255 down to 60,000. >> Can someone help me understand the how this the the CRA funding when it

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sunsets portions of the money? I mean, the money goes back to the county, but then the city also gets portions of that money which we allocate throughout. Is that I'm just trying to find a basic way of saying that basically it goes back into

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our general fund. So, >> so that started in 2026. So, the 2026 budget took on all revenue and expenditures at the CRA in the general fund. >> Okay. So, does some of that go into economic development like to cover the trolley?

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>> That's why if you look at 25 and 26, there's such a big jump in 26. >> Gotcha. Yeah. >> Thank you, ma'am. Some of it went to the um economic development. Some of it went into um parks and recck. >> Okay. >> And the police department that got um

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their personnel cost went up because >> Is there anybody in the room from ED? >> Yeah. >> Pamela >> for you don't have you don't have to get up or talk for future reference. Uh can can we get some updated numbers on the trolley please?

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>> Thank you. But I mean it's a lot of money but they they are heavily riding that and Dan gave us a a really good um I know we need updated but every time he gives us a presentation the numbers are really good for >> for that. I'm just concerned about the

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promotional activities because economic development does it Cindy are you able to tell me how much we're taking away um I mean how much economic development was giving towards events? Does it show that? Um,

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yeah, they gave about $7,000 in the past. >> How much? >> 7,000. They gave7,025, 5,024. >> So 11,023. >> All right. But you said that the reason

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why the budget is going from 721,000 to 366,000 is because of events and some other things. But like what's the the other things that caused it to be 700,000 in 2026 and now we're decreasing. If economic development needs to go up for

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us to promote the city and the activities, then I'm all I'm I'm okay with that. But I just want to make sure what what that what that is about. >> Right. Um we did decrease um we used to um fund a bunch of incentives. >> Okay. >> Etc. And basically all that went away too. >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. And did I miss the answer about how it went from 57,000 to 721,000? >> That that's when it took on um the CRA. >> The CRA. >> Okay. But if I remember correctly, promotional activities is where we put

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in money for um incentives for businesses >> that we share the job creation thing, >> the QTIs and JP >> and we put money there, but we hardly ever actually had one, >> right? >> And so the budget amount is always way

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above what we actually spent, >> right? >> Okay. And so now we're just saying, >> let's just not put that in the budget. Yeah, we don't we don't have We did We have some in there, but not as much as we used to have. >> Okay. >> So, there will be no JAQs in QTIs.

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>> They don't do QTIs anymore. Okay. >> Um and we haven't done um the other in a long time. >> And we got rid of the tax rebate program. >> Okay. >> So, for I don't know if you have this right in front of you, but I think it might help. Um for the 2025, do you know

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what the budgeted amount was for that line item? >> No, I don't know budget. We spent 16 about >> Okay. Um and you just said something that I was going to ask about the um tax rate rebates that are we still setting

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aside the money for Henry. >> Yeah, that's part that's what's left in there. >> Okay. So, that's still in there. And then are we and we're setting that aside year by year until we get that case resolved? >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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Thank you. Okay, one other question here and it's going to be a question that will apply to a number of departments. So, I'll ask it now and I've asked this in my previous years as well. conferences and seminars. We I keep

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looking at this thinking it seems to be increased every year um unusually high and it doesn't seem like we're doing um we're having a hard enough look at conferences and seminars. And I say this

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actually going to the annual conference myself for the Florida League of Cities. Nonetheless, I feel like we're not paying enough attention to costs here. Am I wrong? >> That's actually one that I hammered each department on this year was conferences and seminars. Um

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>> Oh, >> yeah. And so they've all assured me that they were actually going to these conferences and seminars in 27 >> and and Commissioner Thomas also one of the criteria is it has to be for well for the most part it has to for

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maintaining credentials or uh certificates >> and I firmly support that. U Mr. Mr. Bonapart has always said and believed in sharpening the sword and I would not know what I know and be where I'm at if it was not for economic and community development sending me on conferences to

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learn the the different things. So our employees that the the better that that the more that they participate the more they know on the job training I support the conferences. >> So >> Okay. And good and I support that too. So, I'm going to I'm going to presume here that maybe it's just increased

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cost, especially when it comes to getting to certain conferences because of gas prices, etc. >> So, so Commissioner Thomas, is your question why isn't it being used or why isn't it enough?

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>> No. No. My question is like in this particular example, we're going from oh 495460 985 and then up to 6,000 for this year 5,500 for next year. So that's a little

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higher than just uh increased gas costs and things like that. >> Yeah. Um what you have to know is the three 20 23 24 and 25 are actuals. 26 and 27 is budget. Um so this >> Yeah, I get that. So they they budgeted

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one thing and then they usually don't go to the conference. So that was my number one question to them is if they're going to budget it, are they actually going to go to the conference? Um so I don't have a problem if they're going to go to the conference,

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but to just to budget it and not go was is the issue that I was having as well. >> Okay. So, we should look at it more in terms of well, the actuals were much lower than what we budgeted and that's a good message, >> right? >> Okay. >> I've got a question.

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>> Keep that hammer going there, Cindy. >> Got a question about personnel. >> So, we've got the economic development director and then the project manager and then they split the administrative specialist, but I'm seeing the farmers market. Do we still fund a pardon the

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farmers market? Who get who who who is it? It's um >> who does the project >> project Sanford? >> I thought that they were separate. >> Okay. >> No. Um I think there the gentleman in

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parks and recck helped with that. I forget his name. >> Okay. Somebody help me understand that. How much we pay for that? >> What? What? The gentleman that does um >> Well, no. She's asking who what organization is running it.

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>> Oh, I'm not sure. I know it's Project Sanford and I know the lady that runs it, but I'm saying it shows that we're paying a part-time person for that. So, I'm like, >> it's not parted. >> What? Oh, okay. I see. I see. Point. >> The farmer market coordinator is is

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unfunded. >> So, we don't have that. No, it's just it's a um contract compact contract, >> but um Brett Brett Henderson I think helped with that. That's what it was. >> Yeah, >> he still helps with that though. >> No, Jerry's saying no.

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>> No, they're not doing it. >> That's true. That's economic development manage. >> When's the last time they had that? >> What was that? >> When was the last time they had that? >> They have it every week. >> Why you talking about this downtown?

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Yeah, one. >> We ain't doing one there. >> Okay. Which department manages farmers market? So, but so it says unfunded though >> the position it's contractual. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

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>> But under I'm guessing other contractual services is where we paid for the farmers market. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> 16,000 >> 16k for the farmers market. All right. Are we done with economic

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development? >> Okay. >> All right. Community relations page 95. Okay. um community relations budget um went up 86,700

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solid personnel cost um and a small increase in operations of 620. >> How did we go up when we lost somebody? I know that there things things are like that uh community relations is split up by CDBG and everything else but how did

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we go up when we lost Lahhee >> because um Lie Hep lie and CDBG were funding part of Nikki's salary and neither one of them could afford any of it anymore. So now the general fund has to pick up all of it. Yeah. like heap went away and the portion of CDBG that

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was funding it no longer does. >> Okay. CDBG can't even um fund the person that runs CDBG now. >> So we'll pass we'll we'll be picking project manage

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part of their per salary as well. >> Yeah. CDG funding has dropped a lot >> lot dropped. Yeah. That's way down. >> Okay. So, I >> what

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>> because I I I'm I'm don't want to offend anybody, but that's a department with it with one employee. Kind of like economic development, too. is an uh you've got a department with a

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department title and a department salary for both of those departments when there's only one employee underneath the director and then a half of a administrative specialist.

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So, I'm wondering not not taking away anyone's salary, but I'm saying if it falls under city manager and don't nobody shoot me. I'm just, you know, trying to think strategically because that's >> Are you saying we possibly need some

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streamlining, Commissioner? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's a fair question. >> You get what I'm saying? because departments you're you're a director over a full department and I'm assuming

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five or more people. Well, with CDBG now and and the reason why I'm saying that is because now the city is taking over that cost now fully and not just, you know, where it was a percentage from CDBG. Then you have a manager

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not really I'm not saying that I don't want to I don't want to say the wrong thing not really managing >> people underneath her. So what >> is the question about the title? >> Not necessarily the title but just maybe some restructuring and thinking about

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that it not being a full department. I'm saying the same thing about economic development too. Not taking away from not trying to get anybody to lose their job or not trying to decrease salaries, but I'm saying that departments

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usually have a department. >> Oh, this this isn't a department. It's basically office. >> So, the community development is not a department. >> No. What is >> the office? It's it's basically just community development and it has a manager to manage the HUD funds that we

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get. >> Okay. And we're we're not really having that many HUD funds, right? Because you're saying we're losing lots of >> it. Reduce the funds we're getting has been reduced, but we still have to distribute go over $400,000. >> Okay. So, when I'm when I'm talking about and I wish people wouldn't get

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offended because it's hard for me to articulate exactly what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to to to brainstorm here. Uh what I really would like to see is how could we use that department to work with some other things to spread out because it sounds like eventually

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CDBG will phase out just like Lahit did and I don't want anybody to lose their position. So, I'm saying maybe some restructuring so that maybe we can have more community development because we received a letter from uh our attorney

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saying that in January our governor is changing things to where we won't be able to fund our REI or any of our minority things which all of that falls under community development. the the REI falls under community development and

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all of the things that we do with our young men of not young men of excellence, our boys to men, our college tours, we'll have to kind of rebrand that so that we are in compliance so that we we don't get in trouble or hand

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slap for that new policy that takes place in January. So that's what I'm I'm trying to think outside the box here because it looks like things will be shifting. >> That will be a continued discussion completely. >> I totally agree with that, Commissioner

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Britain. In fact, I was going to ask about even the statement on the role of community relations. We uh hopefully are already taking a look at that and how we need to rewrite it and restructure appropriately. So it might not be a department but the

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title is director though correct >> of community relations. >> Yes. >> And of economic development as well. Correct. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So that's why I'm I'm I'm saying usually the the rest of our directors have five or more employees. So, I'm

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just trying to figure out how we preserve these positions in the future or how we shift some things and hopefully that we can proactively think about that now versus it coming up and then I'm at the commission saying why is somebody losing their job? >> What I'm hearing you saying, please

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correct me, is your comments about the person's title? >> Well, >> not really. >> Okay. I believe Commissioner Britain is saying that we have people with titles that are over departments that don't

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compare to people with the same title over other departments. >> Absolutely. But for instance, let's take economic development. When Brady Lassard is interacting with businesses, having the title he's the director of economic development, I think it's important. >> I think it's important, too. But may I'm

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just saying maybe we shift like other things that they they do. >> Listen, >> go ahead. >> I'm going to help you and and try not to step on your toes here. >> It's fine. >> We cannot continue to look at now. We

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have to start looking at the future. >> The future is going to be major cuts in this city. We took a little baby step back this year. I'm happy about that. But I still don't think we did enough. And I've said

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that before and I'll say it again. A huge part of what we are going to be facing in the future is personnel because that is our biggest expense in this city. We need to start making sure we can

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justify the titles and the structure that we have. If you feel that you can justify that in front of a packed audience of our taxpaying citizens, then I'm good with

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that. But Commissioner Britain, myself, and Commissioner Thomas, I think are saying we might need to take a better look at this. >> Exactly. >> Is that fair? >> That's very fair. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, I Yeah, I agree with that. I I

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don't disagree with m what Mr. Bonapart is saying about the um importance of us being able to attract businesses through an important person with an important title. However, I think we need to mitigate that with uh where we are now and where we're going to be in the

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future. And you know, we're not we're not like the Fortune50 company I came from where you've got senior directors, executive directors, three different levels of vice presidents. No, we're a small organization. So, we don't have 100 titles to choose from. But, we do

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need to take a hard look at where we are now and where we're going to end up. Okay, >> that's it for me. >> Okay. Any other questions on community relations? >> Yeah. So now my question is is being that we're going to be taking some of

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these activities away. Um, let me look in I I just want to know if cuz like when I'm looking at the accomplishments and I'm seeing the different items that would fall under DEI,

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are those budgeted in for 2027? They are. Um, I have I will be making a few changes after this meeting. Um, a few one is that we got 15,000 more in property tax revenue, but um, some of them would be with community relations

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budget on MBK and our EI. >> Okay. So that then they would have additional funding that they could move to another line item. Okay. And I always do um when I bring the proposed budget back to y'all in September, I do a summary sheet that I

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add um to the agenda to show you everything that's changed since this meeting and what's actually in the proposed budget in September. >> Yeah, that's good. And I don't think we want to overreact to that given uh some good news legislation this year when it comes to certain certain things that I

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know we all do believe in. But um you know we need to just be proactive in how we plan for these things. Any other questions on community? All right. Move on to um CDBG which is on page 248. Um this budget is set to go

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down about $140,000 and it's all because of less funding from the grant. And one of the reasons we had to pick up um more salary and this general fund will have to pick up some salary as

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well. It um the transfers is going to be about 70 five a little over 75,000 if we spend the entire budget to cover um the expenses for the budget. >> What page did you say?

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>> On page 248. So, the federal grants are staying about the same. >> What did you say? >> The federal grants are staying about the same >> from last year. >> Yeah. >> Difference. Beautiful. Wow. Yeah.

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They had some car. >> Well, I am optimistic about efficiencies in this organization coming. So, >> they had some looking forward um last year that they used for their budget. CDBG now is CD citywide, right?

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>> Um for just the city. Yeah, >> it's for the city. It's not just in >> Goldboro, Georgetown. >> Citywide. Yes. >> Ah, I can talk about it now. Anything else on CDJ to

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>> city attorney page um 98. >> Okay. >> Um this budget is going up about $83,000. trick. >> Okay. When we contracted that with them, it was at a flat rate plus other stuff.

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>> Correct. It's the other stuff that is getting us. >> So, is there flat rate changing? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, it's the other stuff that's >> Well, we seem to give her plenty of other stuff. >> Yeah. Why do they have travel travel in Perdam?

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Don't Isn't everything like billable hours even when they go to the the conferences and stuff? >> Yep. They don't have travel in PDM. Strumm did have travel and PDM in their contract. Oh, >> DSK does not. >> Okay. Apparently we were underpaying our

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previous >> Well, I mean our budget is still less than our 25 actual. >> Well, when did she start? >> About a year ago. about a year ago. >> May I think it was May was a year.

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>> Okay. >> All right. Move on to city clerk. >> Thank you. >> Um that is on page um 102. >> Here comes question. >> Um this budget is going up about $2,000. um about um $9,500 in personnel costs

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and a decrease of $7,300 in operational costs. >> Uh this isn't on budget necessarily, but is there a reason we don't have KPIs for 2425? >> Maybe they're just not ready yet. >> Yeah, I have a few that I want to take

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off and a few that I want to add. Okay, they'll be in the next version, right, Tracy? >> Yes, they will. >> Thank you, Jar. [clears throat] >> No, they're going down a lot in other charges and obligations. You don't need y'all don't need that money.

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>> I'm trying to look at you, Tracy. >> Um, why did it go go down? I mean, that's all that's more than 10. >> I gave her a green check mark for that one. >> Legal ads were moved to um planning department. They're doing their own now.

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>> That goes in the newspaper. That legal ad stuff. Okay. >> HR >> HR um page 107. Um, this budget is set to go up about $45,000. Um, all in personnel costs, a little

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over about 46 um, and a decrease of about $1,000 in operations. That this department is heavy in salaries for six employees. And then with the f the the benefits,

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we're almost at a million for six. Okay. Um I also have a question here on objectives if I may. We are documenting, we're tracking metrics for various phases in the hiring

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process, but I don't see a metric for days to actually fill a position, which I would like to see. >> Explain that again, Claudia. >> So, if you look in the on page 105,

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you've got, for example, uh two-day average for number of days from posting closing to applicant referrals to department uh two-day average workers comp. What I'm not seeing there is how long does it take to actually fill a

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position? >> 3-day average for final approval on position rack to job posting. So that probably makes sense to Sharon. I I don't know if she's in the room. >> No, you're gonna come down to mic. >> Hold on. She's coming to yell at you.

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>> I hear the pitterpatter of little Sharon footsteps. >> The objectives as as I understand it are things that we can control and we can only control the objectives listed in the in the book. For example, we can control how long it takes us to post a

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job and we can control how quickly we can get the information or the to the department once the job closes. But then we're just kind of sometimes left hanging waiting on the department. >> It is a good thing to track.

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>> But the per the reason the book is because it's not an objective that we can control. >> But I do agree with tracking it. >> Yeah, fair enough. So maybe with some kind of a caveat that and it might be a useful metric Sharon for you to say

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this is the average fill time to fill positions and in one particular year it's really gotten long but it's because of that it's out of HR now and into the departments and maybe we isolate which departments are taking longer and improve some efficiencies there

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>> and we have that data we have easy access. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Good. Thanks Sharon. >> We just say it's Jerry's fault. No, >> Jerry's very good. >> Oh, I didn't know he was there. >> Sharon, who's the human resource manager? >> That is Katrina Jackson.

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>> Katrina. Okay. And then who's our I'm sorry. Yeah, I pride myself on knowing people and I don't know HR like. >> Yeah, we have new people. So, you >> Okay. And who's our human resource analyst? That is Yadira Beina. She is a new person.

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>> Okay. >> Dixie still there? No, Dixie is currently at the fire department as their administrative assistant. >> Yes. >> Yeah, she's been there a while. >> Okay. And I think I know the rest. Okay.

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Thank you. >> Is she at the new fire station? >> No. >> No, she's at the headquarters. really. Oh, I love her. >> Okay, we've gone from 4,900 to 13,000 in

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other contractual services. Again, that's actual going to budgeted, but anything unusual there? >> Um, nothing. um unusual um seal fingerprints

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is 3,700 of it. Um that was um an increase um over actuals because we didn't have any actuals in 25 um 4,800 for the state of Florida driver's license check was only 1,125.

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Um and it's because they are going to start checking all employees um which they had not done in the past. Um and those are the two J. >> Okay. The So those are costs we can't control, >> right? >> Okay.

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>> Okay. Anything else on HR? >> Okay. Finance. >> Yes. Um page 114 is the accounting division of finance. Um that's going up 77,620. 86,000 in personnel and a decrease in

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operations of about 8,800. Cindy, I tell you, I be looking for finance. Y'all just the perfect example of how you trim the fat. I never am able to question you about anything. Looks good. But we could give somebody a little

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coaching on its s versus it apostrophe s. [laughter] Sorry. You know I have to do that once at least. >> Claudia. Claudia. >> Where where was that at? >> Can we cut her mic?

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>> Mission statement. Sorry. Okay. On to it. IT budget is actually going up 190,000. Um it is 88,000 in personnel and 101 in

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operations. We do have two new pieces of software that is driving that. Um one's the timekeeping system and one's a new budgeting software system. >> Speaking of budgeting software, which reminds me, we did move off of finance accounting. We're going to talk about

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the uh budget manager later, right? >> Um possibly. Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz I do want to talk about that. So, we'll do that later. >> One, two, three. Um we're we are in the um midst of implementing both of those

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pieces of software right now. And then the new budgeting software will make us in compliance with the new state statutes that makes the budgeting um document um user friendly where they can manipulate it and do graphs or whatever they want to do with it.

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>> Cindy, are 10 of these [clears throat] employees at city hall? What was that? Are all 10 of these employees at city hall? >> I see. >> Yeah. They don't work remote. I don't recall 10 people. I got to go back around and meet people. >> A lot a lot of them sit in their little desk on the computer doing their job all

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day long. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I do talk to them over the the for the help desk tickets, but >> yeah, you probably talk to the help desk guy. >> Rumor has it they hide when the doors open. >> They scurry like little rats. >> Hopefully [laughter] they're doing their job.

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>> Yes, they are. They are always there when I need them. I'm appreciate it because I'm a mess. >> They've been a big help for me lately. Any other questions on IC? >> All right. Um, on to purchasing. This budget is going up $3,800. It's all in

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personnel cost with a slight increase of $27 in operations. >> And what? >> $27. >> $27. >> Okay. $40. Yeah, the only thing I was looking at there was that same Okay, they're again budgeting a higher amount for

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conferences and seminars and probably didn't spend it all in prior years. >> They were spoken to just as well as all the other departments. Can we go back to the KPI >> KPIs? >> KPIs for >> for finance

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>> finance. Sure. >> Okay. So, on purchase orders. >> So, we're heading in the right direction. >> Yeah. >> So, it's 27 days and then 21 days and expected this year 16 days. But that just still seems like a I mean a long

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time to process a purchase order. What I mean is that just what it really takes or is there something we can do to >> We um have implemented um a new new checklist, requisition checklist for the department. So hopefully we don't have

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to return as many um for errors. Um we just implemented that about three or four months ago. So we don't know the results of that. We're hoping that helps with the days. Um, but otherwise, I think we're at our limits on what we can do to help the system.

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>> So, like the 16 days, that's not necessarily 16 days that it's in the hands of purchasing. Is that 16 days that it's going back and forth? >> No, that is um in the hands of purchasing. >> If it's going back and forth, it's

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longer. >> Okay. >> Um with I believe going back and forth back and forth it can go up to 30 days what the average is. >> Okay. That just still seems like

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>> 30 days is the average >> over two weeks seems a long time to wait to be able to get something. >> Absolutely. >> And um is there do you have any um prioritization process?

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No, we usually do first come, first serve on the purchase orders unless we're notified by the department that it's an emergency and then we bump them up. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Well, it has gone from 27 to 21 and the

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goal is now 16. So, >> we are second quarter at 13 days, but I don't know if that will be the average for the year. >> Okay. All right. >> Do we have any Go ahead, Mayor. No, I'm done. Go ahead.

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>> Um, do we have any uh information on why the customer satisfaction at the help desk was 96% dropped 3 percentage points? >> I mean, 96% is still great. It's just >> that was from years ago. Go ahead, Bob.

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>> Okay. So, what year was that? 96. >> It says >> 2425. >> 2425. Okay. So, 2425. Um, we had that the Windows Microsoft migration. >> So, there was >> any migration you go through is enough.

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thanks, Bob. The voice of Yes, father. Okay. [laughter] Anything else on purp. >> We're good. >> Okay. Yep. What's next?

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>> Okay. We're on to planning. Um I believe page 127. Yes. 127. Um their budget is going up $94,000 or 925. Um the increase is about 768 in personnel with a $17,000

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increase in operating. And if you remember earlier we talked about um legal ads being transferred to planning. So that's a majority of their increase. >> Are are we doing legal ads through the

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newspaper or are we going to whatever the state said we could start doing? >> We're using other sources. >> We still use the Herald. It's not what I was told. >> We still use the Herald. >> Yes. >> I thought we were using somebody else

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recently. >> Or mine. I use the Herald. >> I'm sorry. >> I thought >> Yeah. The last three or four pages of the Herald is always all that. >> Lindsay told me something different. I thought >> we we have an option for something

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different though, don't we? >> Yes, we do. because I thought there was the conversation about the Herald's publishing schedule made things very difficult for us. >> The Yeah, the Herald is down to one one publication a week. Yeah.

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>> Which has required us to bump up our ad delivery to the Herald even further back from when hearings are held, which makes our timing to schedule people's hearings further back. So, it does cause a little bit of a change. Um, usually we know

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ahead of time when to run the ads. We're just running the ads before staff reports and stuff are done. So, on occasion there's that overlap when an applicant needs to be delayed because their ad already ran and they have to be continued. But other than that, there have there were options discussed with

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Mr. Groot when he was here, but nothing ever came of it. options of what we might be able to do, run ads on our own website, however that can be managed. We were never given any further detail. So, we just continued to ensure that we met state statutes with all of our

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advertisements with a paper of local circulation of so many, you know, so many papers, so many this, but we do meet requirements. As you know, the back of the Herald, the last several pages are always advertisements. Some of them are ours, some of them are other cities in the vicinity.

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>> Yeah. They're not cheap. Um, the Herald is about a third of what the Sentinel is. >> So, we have had to use the Sentinel once or twice on an ad that came up later than the Herald's deadline. The Sentinel can do them usually in about 48 to 72 hours, whereas the Herald, we're looking

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at about a 10day lead time. So, um, >> but you will pay for it. >> What? >> You will pay for it. >> Pay for it. >> Yeah, you it's the Sentinel is about three times the cost. >> Okay. >> So, if there are other options, we could explore them. It's just we had started

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some discussions with Mr. Groot and then it never really went anywhere and so we just continue with what we're doing. >> Okay. Can we we can continue those? >> Let's look into what the options are. >> I think there's papers in Daytona, Jacksonville, Melbourne,

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>> but we have um managed to reduce some of the costs because we've been incorporating all of the clerk's ads for anything that's planning related. It used to be we ran our ads, they ran theirs because the agendas were different. We're just trying to coordinate in a manner that um we can

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incorporate theirs into ours. So, it's a lot line a lot less lines run because we all the same information about the property and then we just list all the different meetings. So, we're running our ads and we're running the clerk's ads for um stuff that wasn't being run by planning before. It's financially a

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little better, but it's also a lot more timing. There's a there's a lot more work on our end to make sure that all the timing meets. Yeah. >> Well, we appreciate that. >> So, >> okay. >> Thank you. >> No problem.

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>> I want to have some comments on the development services KPIs when we get to that. >> All right. Do you want to go through the other two divisions first? >> Sure. >> Okay. um move on to code enforcement

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which is page 130. Um this budget is set to go up about 15,000. Um 27,000 of it is in personnel with a decrease of about 13,000 in operational costs. Tell me about demolition.

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other contractual services. >> Mr. Roondo's coming to the mic. >> Okay. >> Hey, Commissioner, you are you speaking about the reduction. >> Yeah. Yeah. It went from well, we had nothing until 25,000

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there up to 80 and down to 40. >> Yeah, that's you know that is my fault. Uh essentially what happened was we had placed our emphasis on uh moving towards foreclosure. I did not like a stat we had previously had a KPI

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that uh outlined how many buildings we were going to demolish in the city per year. I did not care for that saying we were I wanted to do it on an as needed basis not that we were going to go out and find seven houses to demolish. I I just I did I I wanted there to be a

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delineation there. And so my energy waned as we moved forward. Um Miss Lindsay, you know, she she looked at that, we addressed it and um at least for this year agreed to look for places we could cut the fat and that was one of

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the areas. However, having say that said having said that, what I would tell you is that we have now returned to a more uh proactive approach to condemnation and demolition, which I think you you'll see in the next meeting. As a matter of fact, we have some agendaized items that

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need to be talked about with respect to condemnation. So, we are long overdue one. >> There's there is a long overdue one. Um I I >> Okay. So, it's not unusual for these

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numbers to change significantly and it sounds like you're on the right path here to doing what's appropriate. >> Yeah, I believe it was a responsible thing to do someplace where we could meaningfully give back to the budget and not significantly interrupt operations.

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>> Okay. Appreciate that, Tony. Anything else on code enforcement? >> All right, move on to um business tax receipts. This is page 132 of your budget book. Um this is actually

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going up $126,000 55,000 in personnel cost um with a 71,000 increase in operating cost and it's all due to credit card fees. Because of what? >> Credit card fees. Processing fees. They

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were not charged appropriately to the division in the past. So there was a correction made. >> Are we charging the person using the credit card? >> No, currently we do not. >> Why not? >> Um in the past utilities did not want to charge a fee because they were afraid it

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would increase foot traffic. They already have a lot of foot traffic. Um that is actually something that we're possibly looking at. It does have consequences. So, I'm not sure that we will do it. Um, we are going to have that as a topic of discussion at our next executive management meeting.

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>> What are the consequences? >> Um, under the new state statutes um that just passed um if you charge if you um only accept credit card fees, which some of our um services do, you have to give a cash option. And some departments

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don't have a cash option. So if we start charging for credit card fees, they're going to have to enact a cash option. Um so that would be the consequences right now. Utilities um building already have credit card fees built into their costs as part of an enterprise fund. The

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general fund is the only portion that does not have credit card fees built into costs. >> Well, then maybe we shouldn't accept credit cards. >> Under the new state statutes, we are not allowed to refuse credit cards. >> Fantastic.

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That's a considerable cost that we're we're taking on. >> Can we charge an administrative fee? >> Um, it would still be it could be considered a credit card fee. Yeah. >> Okay. >> H

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So, we have a catch 22 there, but we'll discuss it further to see where we can go with that. >> I'm sure Craig will have plenty of great options for you. I'm just trying to make sure you're awake. [clears throat]

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>> Any questions on business tax receipts? >> Is this is this part of uh is isn't this being affected coming soon as well? >> It was one of the bills that was up for but it did not pass. an escape.

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>> I imagine it will come back next year. >> I'm afraid this is something we're going to have to face here. >> Yeah. >> And that I guess that's >> a catch 22, right? >> Ready to move on. And Commissioner

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Thomas had questions on on KPIs, I believe. >> Commissioner Thomas. >> Okay. No, I was I was shifting to some other documents. Uh yeah, the the positive first I see that we have

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improved the from three to two that I think we might have lost you again, Commissioner. >> Okay. Sorry, I accidentally hit the mute. Can you hear me now? >> Yes. Last we heard was improved from three to two.

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>> Okay. Yes. So there are some good positive changes in our metrics here when it comes to average turnaround time. Um there is one that was curious to me. The very first one average time development applications processed the actuals were 38 days. Our expected is

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now 40. So are we thinking it's uh safe more safely conservative to say 40 days instead of giving us a more aggressive goal to decrease that time? Hopefully that's enough time asking my question for pitterpatter of footsteps to come back up there. And while you're coming

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in pitterpattering, um I would like to think that some of this is because we have brought on a new ombbuds person in this process and that that is making a difference. And I really, really, really hope that the uh

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based on some conversations I've had, the really good ideas that have come from Amy are being listened to and applied as much as possible. Okay, so Eileen, take it away. >> Okay, so the 40 days versus 38 days is mostly

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just a trend we're seeing with the applicants not properly replying to I feel weird because I don't have you to look at. Um, >> [laughter] >> Um, we're the >> I'm hovering over you. >> We're finding a trend in the applicants

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not responding appropriately to comments and that's taking our review times longer because they're not responding in the manner that they're supposed to be. It's not necessarily a conservative, it's just the trend that we're seeing. >> Okay.

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>> So, um, >> and then >> overall it's about the same. It's just sometimes working with the applicants and getting their response times um back and them replying to the comments that have been asked of them is taking longer.

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>> Okay. >> So, so your 40 days includes the other side's time. >> Um no, this is basically us, but we're having to review twice as much because they're not responding to what we're asking them to and we're having to re-review everything because they're not

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answering it. Our comments are going out two and three times the same comments, >> right? Repeatedly, right? Repeatedly we are reviewing the same thing. >> And if it were just reviewing this saying, "Oh, they met it. Check. They met it. Check." But instead, we have to go back through and rewrite comments and

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re So it is just taking longer to do the same review. >> Okay. But again, I I trust that uh we are getting some good suggestions. they are being listened to and that we are still trying really really hard to be open for business.

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>> Oh, we're making every effort every effort to try have the applications go through. >> All right. Well, let's keep those positive metrics coming because I did see some good ones here. >> Thank you, Eileene, from hovering above

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you. [snorts] Weird. >> I'm gonna have nightmares. >> All right. And we did um skip I forgot um building um inspection funds and um they are on page 258 and 259.

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Um this is for the building permit portion. Um this these two these two budgets together are going down 283,000. Um mainly because last year we had capital asset purchases of 245,000. Um there is an increase of salaries of

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about 71 and a decrease in operational cost of about 94. And that's because the credit card fees used to be charged to them. That belongs to budget tax receipt. >> All right. >> Ready to move on?

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>> Okay. Police department. >> Oh. um they have um four divisions and um they start on page 143 with administration. I'm going to tell you the overall because um their budgets their people

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move around quite a bit. Um so the overall over all four divisions the salaries are going up 1.3 and there's a decrease in operations of 103,000. out. So now for the individual um page

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143 administration increase in personnel of 152,000 and an increase in operations of about 56,000 Yeah, I'm going ask this question now because it's when I first noticed it because the police department's such a

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big department. Um, medical insurance increase is about 14%. Is that correct? Overall, I'm not sure I looked at the overall um medical [clears throat] insurance increase citywide is about a million dollars. Yeah.

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>> And so what? >> It's a bigger difference in other departments. >> Yeah, it always because it's always seems to vary from department to department what the percentage looks like. >> It depends on who opts in and opts out

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and etc. [clears throat] total >> is that under component? >> Yeah. Um the um internal service fund insurance budgets on page 294. [cough]

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[clears throat] I wish I had brought last year's book. When I'm looking at repair and maintenance services, I'm wondering if our budget in prior years was closer to that 300,000 it is now for 26. >> [clears throat]

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>> We spent 147 then 181,000 then 155 and now it's 305 budgeted for this year. >> Um which budget are you speaking about >> under repair and maintenance services >> on um what page?

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>> Police administration 143. I think I think um the mayor had skipped to the health insurance budget really quick. >> Yeah. Go ahead. And where where are you Cindy? >> Oh, okay. You're still on health insurance. >> Okay. [laughter] Because I just

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calculated 7%. >> Right. >> On health insurance. >> Okay. Let me >> So the police going up 14% seems odd. >> Their people move around quite a bit. So they go from one division to another. So

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>> well I'm looking at the combined though. >> Oh combined. >> Yeah. I know the police department keeps rearranging every year. So we can't track what really happens in their budget. >> Then it had to be people opting in versus out because people can opt in or out of the health insurance. That's

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probably what caused that then. >> Okay. So how and coming [clears throat] up with the number? What do you how are you getting that number? >> We charge per person a monthly rate.

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>> Okay. But then you have to know who's opting in and opting out. >> Yeah. We do it at a specific time. Whoever's in, they get a health insurance budget and then that's it. We cut it off. So it can change. Like personnel costs can change every day. So

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if somebody opts out, it could it wouldn't may meet the budget. if they opt back in it, the budget could exceed the the actuals could exceed the budget, etc. >> So on some day you go and look and see how many of the employees in the police department are

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in the insurance >> correct >> plan. Yeah. And then multiply that number by the monthly cost >> and that's where this number comes from. >> Right. >> Okay. >> All right. Can I ask a question that's not about budget but about the accomplishments?

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How is it that they can do 4,999 community outreach events? That's like 13 events 7 days a week. That doesn't make sense. >> Where are you? >> 144.

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>> I'm glad you asked that question. Chief Smith is on his way to the podium. [clears throat] >> I know the answer may commissioners answer it. >> Um, one of the things that we do is each of our officers are required from years ago to do what's called walk-in talks.

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So, anytime the officer is making contact with the business, anytime the officer is interacting with the community, all of those events are tracked through the uh through our system. So, anytime they're out meeting with people, holding conversations, playing basketball, doing pizzas,

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whether we're at events that are sponsored by the city or events that are sponsored, um we do a lot of stuff outside of our vehicles. So I and I appreciate the police, but don't you think that's a little stretch to say five thou just to say, okay, I chatted

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with a student. I shot a ball. That's an event. >> Well, the thing we wanted to do is look at what they're obligated and their unobligated time. And our goal is to make sure that all of their 12 hours are obligated. So this way it gives us an opportunity to see what they're actually

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doing during the course of their shifts. >> So that's really that is that >> I think it's the word event. Yeah, because it's saying that's an accomplishment outreach events and >> No, I'm I'm reading what it says there. >> I know, but I think it's the how you interpret the word event.

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>> Like I just spoke that was an event, >> right? So that shouldn't be used then because that's that's not how I interpret it. Event is an event. It's >> right. So again, it your interpretation is >> interpret our goal is to make sure that we have an

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opportunity to identify what our officers are doing. And in order for us to do that is we track what they're doing when they're out of their vehicles, how they're interacting and spending time with people in the community so that when something does occur, we can go back in that community and actually identify the fact that we

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did spend time with those individuals. What that also does for us is that it makes sure that our officers aren't just sitting someplace multiple hours doing absolutely nothing. >> And and we called it something like touch points instead of events

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>> or community relations opportunities. I'm just saying if I'm championing the city SPD and I'm I'm talking about how great they are and I'm like and we do 5,000 events that's like are you serious commissioner? I will tell you this commissioner, we are out doing things

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just about every single day. Our community relations folks are out talking to people in the community. That's a contact and or event. U we are at events multiple times on some Saturdays and Sundays where our guys are at multiple events at the same time where they're using and utilizing our

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trailers. So if that those officers are out, Commissioner Wiggins is a testimony to this. We may have three events that are taking place on the same day where officers are out playing basketball. We're doing hot dogs. We got the trailers out doing stuff. So all of

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those things are how we look at how we are connecting with the community. >> Chief again and okay, we all live in Sanford >> and we all see I mean I'm a street away from Ghostboro. It's it's it's not that

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I don't see our police out there doing it. I'm just saying event just sounds like a lot. That's it. I'm not taking away from what our police are doing. I'm pretty sure that they are doing 5,000 opportunities to do some community relations. But when you use the word

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events, I'm thinking of there being an event where people are coming or where there are more than five or six people. An event is an event. If I may, it um it's tracking. Each one of those encounters that the officers have with the citizens are tracked by an event

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number. >> Encounters is a better word. >> So it it's just u the verdict. >> Okay. >> Those are tracked by event number >> and that's all. >> Okay. Any cuz we're commissioners and we have people in our district that go

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through this just like we do. And if I'm saying we have 5,000 events, it just look like a lot. It's not chastising anybody. It just looks like a lot to say. You Well, that's an average of 13 events a day, seven days a week. That's all. Thank y'all for everything you do.

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God dog. >> Commissioner Thomas, did you have a question that we never got to? >> Nope. Okay, then on to >> police on page one. Do you want to look at each division or was the total okay

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with everyone? >> Does anybody have any questions in any of the police? >> I don't I mean their numbers are good. >> The police um total on page 140 if you want to look glance at that really quick. >> Their insurance went down a heck of a

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lot on 145. I don't know if that's a good thing or if or if 2026 budget was extremely big from 130 now now down to 62 but the year prior was 51. So we more than almost like >> for the auto insurance.

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>> Yeah. So I mean did we take on more liability? Was there more issues that >> auto insurance is spread by the number of and value of vehicles each department division has? So it depends on how much their vehicles increased or decreased

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compared to other departments vehicles. So it can um switch. >> Okay. So that confused me even more. So if if we we in 2026 130,000 then we went down to 30 62. Did we lose more um

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vehicles? They they did used to lease vehicles. Yeah. But that's not that's probably not the control there. is that probably utilities um increased the cost of their vehicle. So, they probably got more the

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majority of the auto insurance this year versus the general fund. >> Okay? >> Or vice versa. It can happen vice versa depending on >> the um way the vehicles are um sold and purchased. >> Okay? It's not a bad thing because they

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actually were going down in 2027, but that's a you know, you see what I'm saying there. Okay? It's just an allocation based on the value of the vehicles they have in their possession. >> Okay? >> And look at the money we're saving in travel and pdeium and rentals and leases

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and publications and unless those numbers just aren't available. >> All right. Anything else on police? >> Okay. Um police department does have um three special revenue funds. actually

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five. Um first one's on page 249 and it is the second dollar fund and this is the money they get off the um traffic tickets for training purposes. Um this budget is an increase in 25 $2,544

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and it's basically they're going to use reserves to help pay for some of their training. Um any questions on that budget? I'm sorry. I was going to go really fast and then I stopped myself. We are Where are we at? Page 249. Second dollar fund. Okay. We

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skipped Okay. Got you. Did you have questions on the other? >> It's It's all right because we were at um strategic services and then we moved on. But it's okay. We're we're done with police there. I'm fine. Any

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questions on second dollar? >> No. >> And then two, >> no. And law enforce trust fund is also related to the police department. >> Yeah. The 250 and 252, they um if you look at our financials, these three um combined to one one fund on our

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financials, they are three different um law enforcement trust funds. >> And together they're um increased in $6,500. and it's just a um increase mainly in revenue estimates. Um they're not really planning to use those

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currently. And then on page 257 is their impact defund and it's increasing estimates of $2,000. And currently they're not planning on

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using any of those funds. 27 not planning on using any of it. So there's potential there for use elsewhere. Well, not necessarily elsewhere, but >> yeah, it's impact funds, but that they can only use it for expansion or new things,

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>> right? Okay. >> Um so we'll move on to the fire department um administration on page 157. Um, this budget is currently set to go down about $54,000. It's a decrease um in salary to 47 and a decrease in

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operations of 7,000. Hey, Patrick, you'll be happy to hear this. This is as far as I got in the book, so I won't ask questions here. >> I'm used to it, but I'm not. She can't see us, right? >> Oh, [laughter] she

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>> Any questions on administration? >> Did Did you fall asleep at this point? >> Yeah. >> So, the extra money that the fire department saved in their budget this year can't be used for the logistics coordinator position.

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They don't get a refund, Ronnie. [laughter] >> Um, move on to operations on page 159. This bud is going up. >> There's where the savings went. >> Oh, okay. >> Going up one point um almost $3 million. Increase in salaries of 1.2. Increase

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the operations of 25,000. mainly due the um new station cost. >> Yeah, that's what happens when you open a new station. >> We're not staffed yet, right? >> Oh, we are. >> Budgetwise, they aren't.

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>> We wisely started hiring two years ago. >> Well, okay, guys. I I was making an argument that we're not done at that station, but Okay. You caught on. Thank you. [snorts] >> All right. Um on to prevention on page 161.

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>> Well, I'm not I got >> you have questions. >> Yeah. So, item number 52 on one on on page 159. So, >> administration. >> Huh. >> On administration. >> Yeah. Because at first I was kind of like saying, "Oh, okay. I get it because

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that's gas and diesel." But that's a different line item. So, the operating supplies have increased by 130,000. And in the words of Deputy Chief uh Perkins, if I may, that's a lot. That's because they have a new fire station.

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>> Well, I don't I still understand it though. Like the new fire station, that's an additional $130,000 for operating supplies. >> Yes. They have to buy protective equipment that are so equipment is included in supplies

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>> that kind of thing. >> Okay. >> The initial stocking. >> No, I get it cuz for some reason in my mind I'm thinking like office supplies which is right above it 5152. So when you're saying operating supplies I'm like that's a lot, you know. But I get it. I see it. Thank you for the clarification. No problem.

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>> If I may. Any more questions on operations? >> Okay. So, um we move on to prevention. Um fire preventions um budget went up um 33,356. Um salaries um 37,000 of that. A

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decrease in operations of about $4,000. Excuse me. >> Any questions on fire prevention? [clears throat] They um fire department does have one special revenue fund that's on page 256.

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It's the fire impact fees. Um currently it's going down 641,000 and that's mainly because in 26 they um budgeted use of reserve and they are not doing that. Wait for 27. So in fire

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prevention, theirs is their operating supplies is going up $4500. Is that because they have a new >> um fire prevention? >> Well, there's 4,000.

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>> Yeah, exactly. So when when little because little things like this add up like 2,000 here 2,000 whatever. How do we how do we catch these things in the wrong account? They're moved up the um

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>> this happened in the fleet recently have it on you. >> Okay. >> The auto the operating liability the operating liabilities and the auto account. So all of them need to be moved up one um account. So they're all >> okay. And I'm it's it's not a problem

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with the fire department. I want them to have everything they need. But like certain when things don't make sense like in 2026 it's like 9,000 then we shoot down you know to to seven then all the way down to 2,000 and then back up to six 6,000. That's why I was asking

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the questions like what's you know what's what. So now they they're back down to 2,000. They don't need the operating supplies that they needed in 24 and 25. >> It should be the two. It should be 2,000 there. And then the operating liability

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should um be the 6,500 and the auto li. No, I I take that back. No, there's a fine. That's just an a key error then. That's not the same issue. No, I'm not sure. Let me look at the budget

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book and see if she added something here. Turner. Sometimes we make changes after the fact. >> Are we going to take a break? >> It's only been two hours. We usually like three or four at night. I got a pee. Okay.

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>> I took I just went I I had a sugar needed sugar. >> Okay. We'll take a break after. >> Yeah. No, that's just a straight peeing error. >> Okay. Hey Cindy, on the fire impact fees, >> back to page 256.

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>> So the I'm presuming that the land in 23 of 178,000 and the 815 and 26, those are both the new fire building, the new fire station. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you.

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And the new budgeting software will help with this those kind mistakes too. [snorts] There's no [clears throat] more manual entry on our part. Okay. Um, any more questions on fire department. So, summarize what

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what we have now on that corrections. >> Um, it's 2,000 instead of 6,500. >> Okay. So, that's the only correction there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> It was I thought it was the same type of error the police department had, but it was not. >> Okay. >> All right. So,

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five minute break, which means we'll come back in 10 minutes >> because I know how y'all are. >> I had my soda. I'm good. Jerry, can I see you? >> Okay. So, we'll take a five minute break. Um, I'm

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Are they okay? >> And we're back. >> We're back. >> We are. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And I think we're on public works. Um, actually I needed to back up to fire that um 6,500 is not a mistake for fire. That is the correct amount. They did

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budget um $4,500 this year of their f false alarm fees, and that's where the $4,500 is sitting. Um their false alarm um amount in the general ledger is a different fund, but it's not really a different fund. It's general revenue

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fund. So that was the only way I could show it in the budget is that that's where the money was. So, they did budget um $4,500 of their false alarm fees for um alarm replacement. Alarm replacement for Yeah. >> Okay. So,

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>> so the four plus the two is the 6,500. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. So, public works on page 167 168. Um it's administration.

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Um, this budget is set to go up $37,000. Um, all of which is salaries with a a small increase of $114 in operation. Um, can you tell me about this fiscal specialist that's authorized and

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unfunded? um they used to have a physical specialist. They they didn't they um recategorized that to um administration um different administration um positions um and that that position just was never

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unfunded. Now that they the administrative coordinator and the administrative manager I believe has taken on those duties. >> Okay. >> Where where um for the administrative

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services manager and the public works manager um where's the rest of their funding coming from? um utilities, storm water. Okay. And some of them may be in like um

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I'd have to look up exactly that they could be in another um division as well. Anything else on administration? All right, >> move on to health. Health is on page um 170.

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Um this budget is actually going down about 7,700. It's an increase in salaries of 142 um and a decrease in operations of $7800. >> How do we have salaries in there? Yeah.

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>> Yeah. >> Overtime when they do the work. >> Okay. >> They charge the overtime there. >> And how do they have travel and perdem >> um for training? >> But I thought all of it was done through

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Semino County. >> They do have um somebody that does spray. >> I still can't hear you. >> Mosquito license. Mosquito license. >> Mosquito license. >> Yeah. >> And so their stuff their their operating supplies boy. Operating supplies is

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really bothering me this year. Their operating supplies with chemicals. >> Chemicals. They do do some mosquito spraying too. I think the um contract is only for Mitches. Correct.

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, why did we decrease? Because the bides did not decrease this year. >> I think this new contrast. Okay. You were up here in with me in Canada,

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it would be June bugs. >> Regular fleet maintenance. >> What was that? >> Fleet maintenance. >> Fleet maintenance. you have new pages on your dis um for >> these are the ones that the um all the amounts were switched by one account number.

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>> Um so fleet budget is going up 65,000 67,000 of that is in salaries with a decrease in operations of $1,900. And the supplies actually went up from 31 to 43,027.

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>> So I'm going without >> what? I think she said she's going to bed. Okay. [laughter] >> They sound like she was ordering something. >> All right. Any questions on fleet?

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>> Give me one second. >> I'm good, sir. All right. Um move on to facilities um which is on page 174. Um this budget is going up 52,000. Salaries is 26,000 of that. Operations

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is 25,000 of that. 27,000 increase for salaries. Yeah. Salaries and um benefits. When I say salaries, I apologize. I should have said that. We got nine people.

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20 27k anything on facilities. All right, I'll move on. I'm sorry. Going to streets. >> On to streets. Um streets is on page 176. Um this budget is increasing $100,000.

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Salaries is 137 of that and an operational decrease of 37,000. Any questions on the streets? >> No. But can we go back to facilities maintenance really quickly because we didn't talk about it in the commission part and I know we've kind of mumbled

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over it, but the painting of the chamber. I know facilities maintenance is usually the one that does it. Have we narrowed down if we're going to paint this chamber at all and what budget that's coming out of? I don't remember. We got an email with a dollar amount.

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>> 17,000. >> Yeah. And I've personally backed away from that given everything that's going on this year. >> It don't ain't no way it cost $17,000 to paint no chamber. >> Is it with gold? >> Silver.

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>> What? What did we send it out? >> Was it 17 or seven? We got [snorts] what? >> You have >> I have >> Okay. Do you remember how much? >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, >> 700 to 7,000.

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>> Seven. Okay. Now 17. >> Okay. >> I had one of the numbers right. So, we can't do we can't paint our facilities maintenance guys can't paint the chamber.

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Didn't they paint it before? Brent didn't um um God, I can't think of his name. He's right behind you. Didn't y'all paint it before? I swear I seen y'all in here painting. Okay. Who painted the chamber this color

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before? Y'all, I know y'all paint because y'all all paint the same color all throughout City Hall. Who paints city hall? [laughter] >> Okay. So, when we put up the all of these little four walls, I know it be our city employees. Okay. So, y'all paint those walls. Okay.

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So, could we not paint the chamber? Mr. Johnson? I will volunteer to paint it myself. I have the credentials. I'm just saying, can we How long does it take to to

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>> So, I mean, if we're going to have it painted, I would say rather than pulling our facilities guys from other jobs, you're going to have a a a paint contractor come in and do it. And so, I'm assuming that's what the 4500 to 7,000 is.

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>> Okay. So, the question is, do we want to spend $4,500 to $7,000 to paint it? >> I can find I can find $4,500 from this from this budget. >> Well, have me and Sheena do it.

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>> I'll paint it. But I'm saying I can find $4,500. We we we found like 2,000 just a minute ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're always saying no. We're always saying no. >> Well, if we said yes all the time, we'd be really in bad shape.

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>> We don't ever say yes to be honest and I don't want to get into no bondage about it. I'm just saying either let's just say no, we cannot do it period and then let's take it off the table. But it it it it is a eyesore to look at on YouTube and it is also not flattering when it

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looks at the our photos. and Commissioner Austin, your uh pack said that it needs to be painted as well. They were the one that brought it to our attention. >> Yeah, but they've been disbanded. So, >> when did the pack

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so we'll put that on the list of things to consider at the end when we get our list of what changes do we want to make? >> Okay. And then just mentioning it's been like a year and a half with that patch in the hallway. Can we get that cleaned up? Uh what patch in the hallway?

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>> It's a patch of of of it's a huge stain in the middle of the hallway as you walk down to the city manager's office. It's a horrible eyesore. Why is it taking a year and a half to get that? >> Oh, but aren't we getting ready to do something? >> Yeah. >> Getting ready to do redo what?

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>> When we going to do that? >> I think it's this year, is it not? >> That wouldn't be discussed. We are rethinking that because of some financial reasons. >> Okay. So, >> but I I don't want to redo the carpet twice.

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>> We can't clean the carpet. >> We make things so hard here. Is it Is it $7,000 to clean the stain? >> Oh, I that I wasn't I was actually coming up with painting. Um, we could if if it's the desire of commission, we could afford to do it out of our

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facilities budget this year if that's the desire of commission. >> If you can afford to do it, we'd like to see it. >> Well, look at look at him trying to get Brownie points. >> Shut up. >> That That means less phone calls from a certain commissioner, right, Brent?

437
02:32:46.240 --> 02:33:03.680
>> No, it does not. [laughter] No, >> it won't stop me. I promise you it won't stop. But I I think it would it would it would it would be nice if we if we could do it, Mr. Johnson. I I'm pretty sure the city of Sanford would appreciate it. >> No, I'm not sure, sir. The entire city

438
02:33:03.680 --> 02:33:22.560
would appreciate it. >> Well, you know what? If I said it was brown, you would say it was green. It doesn't matter. Whatever. Okay. >> Thank you. Whatever. >> I would appreciate it, too. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Is there a consensus of the commission

439
02:33:22.560 --> 02:33:37.520
to see about having it painted? >> Apparently so. >> Sure. >> What color? >> Chartreuse. >> I have no problem with bringing you samples of what we can in for at the next meeting.

440
02:33:37.520 --> 02:33:52.880
>> We already did the samples. Come on. >> I thought we already had a color. >> Well, then why are we asking about what color then? >> Ask the voice from the the heavens. Here she has [laughter] >> the voice from the heavens says, "We did pick a color last time, but we thought

441
02:33:52.880 --> 02:34:12.960
it might still be a little too dark." And I would I thought your team there, Commissioner Austin, the experts, said they were going to bring up another color. >> Perhaps I was mistaken.

442
02:34:12.960 --> 02:34:28.240
>> I thought y'all had chosen storm cloud or something. I don't know. >> All right. >> Okay. So, are we sending it back to pack to fix the color? >> Oh, dear God. >> Okay. Commissioner Britain's going to fix the color. Let's move on.

443
02:34:28.240 --> 02:34:43.760
>> All right. Um we'll move on to um public works does have um two four um special revenue funds and two enterprise funds. The first special revenue fund is the 9th cent fuel tax and it's on page 264.

444
02:34:43.760 --> 02:35:02.280
Um that budget is um increasing $25,000 um mainly um use of reserves and it's um they do um capital improvements out of that

445
02:35:04.960 --> 02:35:28.399
and it looks like there is a misprint on the revenue did not show up on the detail but the budget is $625. 5,000 not 1036. >> Yeah, it's got 625 on there. >> Yeah, that is the budget. 625,

446
02:35:28.399 --> 02:35:47.120
>> but it shows us some revenue. >> Yeah, the revenue is where it's missing. [clears throat] And then any questions on the 9 cent sales tax? >> No. >> No, ma'am. Um the next um special revenue fund is on page 254

447
02:35:47.120 --> 02:36:19.200
and it's the local option gas tax fund. This budget is going up $48,720. It's just increase in estimated revenue. Any questions on LGT? Um the next ones are the third and fourth gen um sales tax on

448
02:36:19.200 --> 02:36:34.800
page 260 to 261. Um together these funds are decreasing $4.8 million. >> Decreasing. >> Yeah. Um just use of reserves. In 2026,

449
02:36:34.800 --> 02:36:52.319
they used um $8.6 million in reserves for the 26 budget of the third gen. There is no more revenue coming into the third gen. Um in 27 they're estimating to use 1.4 of that reserve that is remaining.

450
02:36:52.319 --> 02:37:26.640
>> I don't understand. >> Wait on fourth gen or third gen? >> Third gen. That's where the decrease is coming from. Any questions on third or fourth gen? >> On fourth gen, did we just change the the name of the line item from local

451
02:37:26.640 --> 02:37:47.760
option to third gen between last year and this year? Yeah, it um third and fourth gen are the local option sales tax. They're all the same. They're interchangeable. >> Okay. >> We just tried to separate them by when they were approved and voted for.

452
02:37:47.760 --> 02:38:06.319
>> So, I think the point is on page 261 it says third gen sales and I think should say fourth gen. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. >> Last year it was just local option sales and this year is third. >> Yeah.

453
02:38:06.319 --> 02:38:26.640
>> But both of those were really fourth, >> right? This was the fourth, Jim. Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. All right. Um solid waste. Um on page 1701 180 um this budget is set to go up a million

454
02:38:26.640 --> 02:38:45.920
dollars. I'd add a million dollars. Um it's mainly just the hauler fees. Um personnel costs are increasing um $12,000 and operational um other than hauling

455
02:38:45.920 --> 02:39:16.680
fees is increasing 36,000 and the rest is all in hauler fees. We've got four people in solid waste. >> Solid waste. It has two. >> It has two. >> What am I looking at?

456
02:39:24.319 --> 02:39:42.600
It has uh Emily and her administrative assistant. That's it's only two in there, >> correct? Yes. >> Okay. Um the next enterprise fund is storm water fund on page let me double check 185.

457
02:39:44.160 --> 02:40:05.240
Um this budget is increasing um $3.7 million 148,000 in salaries and benefits um about 60,000 in operations and um 3.5 increase in capital expenditures.

458
02:40:05.439 --> 02:40:20.800
They're going up a lot in a lot of things. Um that these lines are so tight >> and about $10,000 increase in debt service. >> Other charges and obligations are going

459
02:40:20.800 --> 02:41:04.200
from 28 to 47,000. Is there something large that's happening? Um there it is. Uh 4,900. They're so close together. there is um landfill fees for Semino County

460
02:41:05.680 --> 02:41:50.520
is the driving factor in that. That's $20,000 for Simino County. Um the uh buildings line 6200 >> the capital >> that 2 million >> the the 20 in 26 the 2 million.

461
02:41:50.640 --> 02:42:11.359
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's for the new public works complex. And that's already done, isn't it? >> No, I don't even think they started as of >> Oh, that's a new building. >> Yeah. >> Um Cindy or Brent, are we cutting back

462
02:42:11.359 --> 02:42:27.200
on school tuition? Um tuition for the citywide? >> No, because um they the year before they had 8,000, now it's 5,000. And I still I believe that like the education portion is very important in sharpening our sword. I just want to make sure that

463
02:42:27.200 --> 02:42:44.439
we're still offering those kind of things. It was high for the last couple of years and now we're cutting back on that. And maybe that's because we got got to make some cutbacks, but um yeah, they were trying to um budget more in line with what they're actually doing. >> Okay. Yeah.

464
02:42:46.399 --> 02:43:21.680
Any else on storm water? >> Okay. >> Okay. Um water and wastewater is their last enterprise fund. Um overall um this budget is set to go down including capital um $15 million

465
02:43:21.680 --> 02:43:40.560
and it's all in capital. They do have an increase in salaries of 518,000 and basically that's it. The rest is most all capital decreases. Okay. There are other miscellaneous item 90.

466
02:43:40.560 --> 02:43:57.160
We're going from nothing last year in the previous year 79 now up to 187,000. >> What page are you on? >> 180. 190. Sorry. >> Oh, this is revenue. >> Revenue. >> On miscellaneous which miscellaneous.

467
02:43:57.600 --> 02:44:12.240
>> We're receiving that much revenue >> of 187. That's that's just estimates. Um miscellaneous is hard to um estimate because you never know. It's usually um like reimbursements for items. Um it's

468
02:44:12.240 --> 02:44:27.680
just an estimate based on history. >> So why don't we have anything for 2026? Is that because you can't estimate that or >> um they pro we probably just decided not to estimate last year or this year for some reason.

469
02:44:27.680 --> 02:44:48.319
>> Okay. Um yeah, but in looking we use um formulas for estimations and that's what the um formula was telling us and it looked like based on what's happening this year that it was reasonable. >> Why do we have delinquent fees listed here twice? What was that? Why do I'm so

470
02:44:48.319 --> 02:45:11.920
so sorry. Why do we have delinquent fees listed here twice? Delinquent late fees listed. They're two separate items. Why is that there twice? A good question. Look at our accounting structure. Um, the first one's actually just

471
02:45:11.920 --> 02:46:00.680
miscellaneous revenues. It's mislabeled. So, we make about $500,000 in late fees. >> Yeah. And Cindy, just one question. We have no FEMA reimbursements expected for 2027. No. >> Okay.

472
02:46:01.680 --> 02:46:24.640
Anything else on water? Waste water. >> No, sir. >> All right. Um last um department, recreation, parks and recreation. Um first um item is the one of their four general fund divisions which is

473
02:46:24.640 --> 02:46:50.479
recreation. And I believe it's on page 214. 214. Let me double check. No, it is not. It is actually on page 219. Um this um budget is increasing $39,000.

474
02:46:50.479 --> 02:47:24.640
Salaries is about 14,000 and operations is about 25,000 of that. Do we have a reason that rentals and leases are doubling from 26 to 27? >> Um, summer camp busing um is the main

475
02:47:24.640 --> 02:47:48.800
driver on that. >> The buses they have are not ADA compliant. Ah. That's important. >> So, >> but for $75,000, we can buy them one.

476
02:47:48.800 --> 02:48:05.399
>> Well, that's where I was going. But so, we're paying an extra $5,000 so we can I guess rent a >> Yeah. >> ADA bus. >> Is that right? >> It's actually 6,000 because they did have some decreases, too. So

477
02:48:06.240 --> 02:48:22.840
>> take a long time to get that 75. >> Yeah. And by the time you were broke even, you'd have to buy a new one. >> New one. >> Yeah. >> But they would use they would use it a lot more than [snorts] >> what they currently are able to do.

478
02:48:23.359 --> 02:48:41.760
>> But we could get a good deal on links buses that aren't running anymore. They don't have >> You didn't get funny or wherever you are. >> Darn. >> Okay. >> All right.

479
02:48:41.760 --> 02:48:57.680
>> Anything left or 219 recreation? >> No. I didn't know they had that many baseball games. Kudo is wild. 205 baseball games. [snorts] >> Okay. It says special facilities. >> Special facilities is on page 222. Um

480
02:48:57.680 --> 02:49:23.279
this budget is going up about 27,000. Salaries are about 16, no 162,000 of that and operations decreased about 134,000 for a net of 27. >> How many employees is that?

481
02:49:23.279 --> 02:49:50.720
Special facilities has 30 30.5. >> Okay. [clears throat] Okay. >> All right. >> Parks and Grounds. >> Parks and Grounds is on page 225.

482
02:49:50.720 --> 02:50:11.680
Um, this budget is going up 61,000. 152,000 of that is salaries and operational increase of about $9,000. >> I have a question about personnel and parks and grounds. I don't see.

483
02:50:11.680 --> 02:50:27.920
Um, so because we had talked about the urban forester and I thought we were replacing the urban forester with a horiculturalist, but it appears we're replacing them with a parks and operations supervisor. >> Is that correct?

484
02:50:27.920 --> 02:50:57.600
>> Yeah, I have the same question. >> Can can wait. Can somebody come up please? >> Have we lost that expertise? I just need to get you on the mic. >> She was replaced with an internal candidate that has a very strong

485
02:50:57.600 --> 02:51:15.439
horiculturalist background who has done that type of work. So, um, having someone on staff that knew the facilities and knew the issues. If we're if we're hiring someone to do tree work, then we we hire a contractor for that.

486
02:51:15.439 --> 02:51:30.800
>> Okay. So, but what will the position be now? The position is um horiculturalist, but they are also a supervisor and running one of the um teams that work in the horicultural

487
02:51:30.800 --> 02:51:57.600
areas with with the plants and with the medians and the bed, flower beds. Okay. So, >> she's got a very strong background. >> I'm just wanting to make sure we don't

488
02:51:57.600 --> 02:52:13.439
we don't lose that expertise and that it's being used. >> We don't feel that we have. >> Okay. All right. Is there any way we can name that position something different so we know that that's the person?

489
02:52:13.439 --> 02:52:29.600
>> We can we can we'll have to we have to go through HR and we'll risk management. We have to get um uh the job specifications to them and see what titles would work

490
02:52:29.600 --> 02:52:46.080
with those specifications for their job. >> Okay. because I know I had several um people contact me about the position when they saw that person was retiring wanting to make sure we had that position. >> Yeah, me too.

491
02:52:46.080 --> 02:53:02.160
>> And I you know I'm okay that we hired you picked I don't have any question that you picked the right person but five years from now I want I would like for people in the city to know we have that position. >> Okay. Okay. Yes. That's my only concern.

492
02:53:02.160 --> 02:53:30.240
>> Thank you. Anything else on parks and grounds? All right. Um, move on to museum on page 227. Um, this budget is going up about $7,500. um 10,000 increase in salary and a

493
02:53:30.240 --> 02:53:55.600
decrease in operations of about 2,000. Right. And here's where I'll take the opportunity um to let y'all know that I am submitting a grant for the museum to the state. And as part of that grant, I have to write a letter saying that the

494
02:53:55.600 --> 02:54:13.640
governing board is aware of the grant and that we will follow all the rules of the grant. So I'm making the um commission aware of that now so that I can honestly write that letter. >> Sounds good to me. Acknowledged. >> I don't remember it.

495
02:54:14.960 --> 02:54:28.720
>> Right. So any questions on museum? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, recreation department does have two um, special revenue funds. The first is recreation impact fees on page 255.

496
02:54:28.720 --> 02:54:45.760
Um, this is increasing about $138,000. Um, but there's no current um, use of those funds as of in the budget of 2027. >> Well, Per, I'm sorry. >> 255.

497
02:54:45.760 --> 02:55:00.479
>> But we have at least one project coming up that would allow us to use those, right? Yes. >> Yes. We may have a second. >> And the um second special revenue fund is the cemetery fund. It's on page 262.

498
02:55:00.479 --> 02:55:17.040
Um this is actually a decrease um and it's mainly doing revenue um estimates of about 37,000. And I did um Commissioner Austin back on my reserve um presentation, you asked about the reserves in that fund. And I

499
02:55:17.040 --> 02:55:31.840
did make a mistake because I had already taken out the asset. So they do have that $200,000 in reserve. And um it's about um in 25 they made $73,000. No, 24. And in 25 they made $27,000 as

500
02:55:31.840 --> 02:55:49.000
the reason that reserve built back up a little bit. This year um it is going to be a loss it looks like for the cemetery fund. So they're heading back down. Um but just wanted you to get the correct information on that. Thank you.

501
02:55:55.840 --> 02:56:32.800
>> So Cindy, were you saying then that the data on page 262 is correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> What's next? >> All right. The last thing we have is CIP. I don't know if anybody has any

502
02:56:32.800 --> 02:56:50.560
questions. It does start on page 312. As you know, the CIP is quite lengthy. Um but the summary is from page 312 to page 320. Um with the general fund being 312

503
02:56:50.560 --> 02:57:06.880
through 315 and then all the other funds follow. Um I don't know if the commission has any questions on the capital program. So it looks like to me we have a number

504
02:57:06.880 --> 02:57:22.000
of components here that are balanced. We have a deficit in public works of 26 million total for the next five years.

505
02:57:22.000 --> 02:57:39.680
And we have a deficit of oh coincidentally also 26 million in >> that it's all in general fund the deficit just follows to the bottom for total. >> Okay.

506
02:57:39.680 --> 02:57:55.520
So the big picture here is like we've been saying we don't have the money to fund all of our capital improvements in the next five years. >> Correct. Yeah. That's what the public needs to know. And a big chunk of this,

507
02:57:55.520 --> 02:58:12.479
of course, is in places like utilities, in our wastewater treatment plants, our water treatment, our storm water. We have all of these projects planned right down to the individual line items. But when you add them all up,

508
02:58:12.479 --> 02:58:29.600
we're in a hurt. Well, I would say that if you go to any of our budgets, we would have that same five-year deficit. >> Okay. >> I mean, there are things on on that have been on here probably almost as long as

509
02:58:29.600 --> 02:58:46.279
I've been on the commission and they just get keep getting moved to the next year, >> right? And that's why we have deteriorating capital, >> right? That's really >> Yeah, really sad.

510
02:58:54.160 --> 02:59:28.080
Chief McNail, what's a kub a kubota? >> A kub. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay under um I think it was it >> Neil not make Neil Neil

511
02:59:28.080 --> 02:59:54.880
>> what is Splunk cyber security tool Splunk >> for cloud browser So, Splunk is a uh it's an enterprise platform that looks at all the all the loggings of all the systems that we have especially cyber security and it

512
02:59:54.880 --> 03:00:11.200
consolidates all those loggings into one pane of glass and um Splunk it it helps us monitor those those cyber security events and any of the uh data events that happen. It detects threats, it

513
03:00:11.200 --> 03:00:26.880
investigates the incident and it will automatically respond. And so with AI um in the picture now, it has astronomically gone up with the cyber security events. So Splunk is just a

514
03:00:26.880 --> 03:00:49.439
tool to help us out with that defense of the increase that we're seeing. >> Okay. Thank you. There's one other that I didn't understand, but it was Oh, wait. I've got another one for you.

515
03:00:49.439 --> 03:01:12.240
Cognos. Okay. So, Cognos is a reporting tool and um currently we we have it in we are implementing it for our ERP system and it uh it helps us with analytics. So, with Cognos um

516
03:01:12.240 --> 03:01:28.080
they uh a vendor has a Cognos analytic tool for our work order system um and asset management. So, it's just a a robust reporting tool that we can run analytics. It will help with the KPIs and all that.

517
03:01:28.080 --> 03:01:52.240
>> Okay. Thank you. >> I like Cognos question. >> Sure. >> Chief McNeel, uh, station 38 remodel. I knew you were going to ask that question.

518
03:01:52.240 --> 03:02:12.000
>> Um, are we do we really seriously consider uh we could just do a remodel there? I thought we needed a ground up replacement. >> Yeah. Does that address the mold issue? >> How do we figure How do we figure out

519
03:02:12.000 --> 03:02:31.680
how to move it up? Uh the mold has been taken care of. We've sprayed it. It's non-airborne. We got a company coming in to clean up areas, but we do need a full remodel.

520
03:02:31.680 --> 03:02:46.720
It was set just for an engine for years back in ' 92. 92 was built. So, it's just for an engine. We've done an engine and rescue out of there. So, it does need remodel. Um, I don't know what we're going to get into once we start

521
03:02:46.720 --> 03:03:06.160
tearing into it. >> So, so the the two and a half million is just a guess. We don't have anybody that's looked at anything or >> no one that has officially came out and looked at it and gave us a hard price. But any remodel, you're going to run

522
03:03:06.160 --> 03:03:22.640
into the more cost associated once they start tearing into it. Well, since I have you here, what's the 40 grand for I can't see if that's what is that 32 remodel? What is that? A bathroom? >> That No, that one is addition on the

523
03:03:22.640 --> 03:03:38.399
backside to get the gear lockers out of there as a cancer initiative >> to get the bunker gear lockers and all that out and move back to the back side of the >> So, it's kind of urgent then. All of them are kind of urgent getting them remodeled up to it, but 38's the

524
03:03:38.399 --> 03:03:53.920
priority. >> Okay. >> I'd like to get individual bunk rooms and all that. So >> So then the 32 remodel for a half a million. What does that >> just to move the gear lockers out for 32? >> Am I looking at that right? So what is

525
03:03:53.920 --> 03:04:10.080
40 grand then? That's 31 >> 31 floor >> for 31. We were going to do additional storage. Okay. >> Well, the 40 is looks like it's for floor resurfacing. >> Oh, now I see it. Okay, my bad. 31 bay

526
03:04:10.080 --> 03:04:29.279
floor resurfacing is only 40 grand. Okay. >> Okay. So, but rather than setting 2.5 million in next year's budget, not knowing what it's really going to take, >> we need we need architect plans. We need

527
03:04:29.279 --> 03:04:46.240
a bunch before you even do it. looking into that. >> We need to architect plans and everything for that. So, it's not going to happen in a year. >> Okay. So, >> it's going to take me a year just for plans, everything else, and then

528
03:04:46.240 --> 03:05:02.319
probably a year and a half to >> So, what were you thinking the 2.5 million was going to cover? >> That's going to get us started. >> What does that mean? >> Means architect plans. Okay. [snorts] >> Everything else, somebody look at it. All that

529
03:05:02.319 --> 03:05:17.680
>> mayor we are we are looking at a way to try to fund that now. >> So the 2.5 million is the planning and >> engineering is that what >> we are looking at that we don't have a solid solid in yet but we are looking at that. >> Okay. Yeah. The sooner we start that the

530
03:05:17.680 --> 03:05:34.720
sooner it gets built. >> How long did it take for the last one? >> Oh >> 67 years. [laughter] >> We we talked about it early in 2000s and we broke around. was an element >> 24. >> So you you think you there's a way to

531
03:05:34.720 --> 03:05:57.120
you're coming back with us something on that. Okay. >> Well, meanwhile meanwhile the the 40 grand is essential. >> 40 grand for what? But I'm not looking at what you got. >> The four 31s.

532
03:05:57.120 --> 03:06:13.560
Yeah, it's just resurfacing the bay floor at if you're talking about for 31. >> Okay. >> Yes, that's resurface the flooring. >> Okay. I think he's asking how crucial is that? >> I'd rather do 38. >> Okay.

533
03:06:14.640 --> 03:06:31.359
>> Me, too. >> 38 and 32s is more crucial than 31, right? Well, but let me ask you, if the other two remodels are to to meet the new cancer standard, then those are urgent as well. >> Those are two are my urgent ones.

534
03:06:31.359 --> 03:06:48.479
>> 31 is just the surface. It's more of a >> I'm not worried about that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, 38 is number one. 32 is my second one. >> But then there's also a million for station 31 remodel >> storage on the back side to move them from rented facilities. Right now we got

535
03:06:48.479 --> 03:07:06.120
one for uniforms and one for EMS equipment. >> We're renting facilities >> for renting storage units. Yes. >> How much are we spending on rental? >> I don't have no number. >> 350 a month.

536
03:07:07.279 --> 03:07:22.960
We can go a lot of months for a million dollars. >> Yeah. Right. >> Um okay. 38 and 32 are the priorities. 38 and 32. >> Yep.

537
03:07:22.960 --> 03:07:47.200
>> So the two and a half which I think is shall we say conservative and the million. Am I am I looking at that right? >> What >> 30 32 is 500 right? 32 is 500.

538
03:07:47.200 --> 03:08:07.359
>> Okay. So 500 >> is that a real number? >> Yeah, that's a real number. >> Okay. >> But just for your reference though, it is going to be more than two cuz I mean we're going to have to relocate them. >> We know that. >> Okay. >> We know that. >> Okay.

539
03:08:07.359 --> 03:08:24.800
>> That's why I called you up here. It's not really a remodel. >> I understand why you did this, but it it has to be more than that. It's >> I don't know what we're going to get into. >> So, yeah, >> especially the the cancer thing.

540
03:08:24.800 --> 03:08:40.160
>> Okay, Chief, what the mayor's saying is we can look for a state appropriation. >> Let's let's try pitching this year. Let's make our be our thing this year. Okay. >> Worth a try. So, okay.

541
03:08:40.160 --> 03:09:09.439
>> Good. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Anything else anybody wants to talk about in capital? >> Cindy, the attachment you gave us on the fiscal year 27 CIP requests.

542
03:09:09.439 --> 03:09:25.359
>> Yeah. Should those numbers match the 27 column in our actual budget book? >> Yeah, the 5 million would. Yes, the rest of it was moved to 26, the 14 million of it

543
03:09:25.359 --> 03:09:41.920
>> along with the actual requests for 20 I meant 28 along with the actual request for 28. >> Okay. And I'm seeing uh quite a few uh line items in here for paintings. So, of course, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "Oh, where can we cut?" Well,

544
03:09:41.920 --> 03:09:58.520
there's a lot of painting we don't necessarily have to do. Um, I think I had another question in here somewhere. Looks like there might be one duplicate. Um, park on pavilion. Park on park pavilion is listed twice.

545
03:09:59.279 --> 03:10:22.399
I don't assume that's a duplicate. It's a line item 2404 and 2412. Unless those are different activities. >> I'm sorry. Where are you at? >> Uh, this is in the attachment that you

546
03:10:22.399 --> 03:10:38.319
sent us here. >> Yes. >> And here. >> That's what I'm asking. Is does that attachment is that just an extract of 2027 or are those updated or corrected numbers? Um these are what the

547
03:10:38.319 --> 03:10:58.880
department um submitted for um budget. I'd have to look at the detail. There might there might be differences in it. >> Okay. >> And what was the name of it? >> Park on park pavilion. >> Park on park pavilion. And the numbers were 2404 and 2412.

548
03:10:58.880 --> 03:11:18.120
>> Yeah. One's painting and the other one um roof replacement. >> Okay. painting and roof. Okay, >> that can't be 75,000 for a roof.

549
03:11:18.399 --> 03:11:45.680
>> That's what was >> Yeah, that's interesting. >> That number does not sound reasonable. So, is the 75,000 painting and 20,000 roof? >> No, the um 20,000 says it's for the

550
03:11:45.680 --> 03:12:26.720
painting and the 75,000 says it's for the roof and painting it looks like. and 2452 replace facility fencing. Doesn't say what facility. I don't [snorts] have that detail either

551
03:12:26.720 --> 03:13:24.560
on mine. >> Okay. Okay. Anything else on capital? Okay. Where do you want to go next, Cindy? >> Um, oh, wait. I had another question. Sorry. >> Um,

552
03:13:24.560 --> 03:13:42.479
line in that same attachment. >> Yeah. 2429 and 2461 both reference zeroturn commercial mowers. Now, I know commercial mowers are more

553
03:13:42.479 --> 03:13:59.680
expensive than the zeroturn mower that I purchased at $3,000, but >> are they actually six times the cost of that? It just seems 18,000 to 25,000 high for one zeroturn mower. Now, that's a

554
03:13:59.680 --> 03:14:16.080
detailed question, but it did stand out to me. >> Yeah, one says 60 inch and one's a 72 inch, so I'm sure that's the difference in the pricing. >> Um, but as far as >> Yeah, but even 18,000. Um, I'm just wondering if our folks doing

555
03:14:16.080 --> 03:14:33.040
these purchases might talk to Scotty over at the golf course cuz he can get some pretty darn good deals on mowers and th those just seem high, those numbers. >> But Scotty can buy from a different vendor than we can.

556
03:14:33.040 --> 03:14:49.279
>> Well, darn. I do have a question uh about the aquatic center roof, but I don't see Is Jerry gone? Oh, there you are. You're hiding behind that big guy.

557
03:14:49.279 --> 03:15:05.359
So, $25,000. Is that for the uh entire building where the office and the lockers and everything is? >> That is for both of the buildings that are there. There's a walkway in between them, but it's for both of those buildings. And that is in um

558
03:15:05.359 --> 03:15:20.800
>> is that so is it is that all our responsibility or is it part the school or >> for something like that we would build them for 50% of it but we pay the upfront cost them for >> so is it 25 total and they're going to reimburse

559
03:15:20.800 --> 03:15:36.239
>> it's 25 total is what we were quoted for it. >> Okay. So we would conceivably get half of that >> 125 back. Yes sir. >> Okay. All right. So, should we should we

560
03:15:36.239 --> 03:15:51.760
should we notate that on this line so we know that we don't actually need 25 grand for that? >> Yeah. >> Is that fair? >> Yeah, we can put it on here. >> Okay. >> In the past with like the liner and all of that we because we pay up front. So,

561
03:15:51.760 --> 03:16:07.760
we have to have the funds available to make that >> No, I just wanted to clarify that we might pay upfront but we might get >> Yes, sir. >> half back. >> Yeah. So you can get a card or something. What? I don't know what you need. >> Well, we don't get it back. I think it goes into the general.

562
03:16:07.760 --> 03:16:25.840
>> I know. I know. I know. So, >> we can give it to Ron. It just becomes revenue for the >> in general with these dollar amounts on the CIP.

563
03:16:25.840 --> 03:16:52.479
How much investigation or quoting is being done? >> Um we finance doesn't do any department. You'd have to ask the departments on how much they do. >> Okay. All right. What's next, Cindy?

564
03:16:52.479 --> 03:17:10.880
>> Um, that's everything that I have. Um, unless you want to go over some of the um addition requests, that would be the last item. >> Okay. Let's go over that. >> As Mr. Bonapart said we did have um 26 positions that were requested in the

565
03:17:10.880 --> 03:17:27.120
budget. Um I can go over them individually. Um a GIS analyst from planning for about 92,000. Um an engineering associate for planning for about 100. Um a budget manager or director um for

566
03:17:27.120 --> 03:17:45.760
about 125,000 in finance. an assistant purchasing manager um for finance for about 135,000, a logistics coordinator for fire for about 167,000, a PIO for fire for about 235,000.

567
03:17:45.760 --> 03:18:04.080
Um six new firefighters in a rescue for about 528,000 for personnel, about 590,000 for the rescue. um 12 new firefighters for tower, about a million dollars for the people, and about $2.5 million for the tower. Um

568
03:18:04.080 --> 03:18:20.239
they did ask for some host testing for annual service for about 10,500. Um and two maintenance workers for parks and grounds at a cost of about 125,000 for parks and grounds. >> Is that their um that includes their

569
03:18:20.239 --> 03:18:37.920
benefits? >> Is that just that? Okay. >> All the estimates include benefits. >> Okay. And um they were supposed to include any operational costs that they might need as well like training, uniforms, etc. For instance, the fire pio also includes

570
03:18:37.920 --> 03:19:11.120
a vehicle. Um Chief McNail And so you're asking for an additional rescue. >> Yes, sir. We were looking at putting another rescue at station 32 to cover some of the call. We're still not we're still running

571
03:19:11.120 --> 03:19:30.640
about 80% of our calls in the city of S. >> Okay. Remember we did this with 31, >> right? So I know we got the second one at 31, which worked out well. >> Um, have we taken into account station 40

572
03:19:30.640 --> 03:19:48.000
and and whether we still need the second one at 32? >> Uh, we haven't ran the numbers here lately on it, but we'll look into it. I can look into that one, >> but it may help. It will help for right now till that area picks up more.

573
03:19:48.000 --> 03:20:03.920
>> When When did that rescue When did the rescue from 40 come in? >> Were we had we been using it? >> Yes. >> Where was it running out of >> 31? >> So, we're running three rescues out of 40. >> Two. The one that the rescue they're

574
03:20:03.920 --> 03:20:20.479
running right now is a reserve truck. We haven't got that official truck for that second one yet. >> Okay. Okay, let me Okay, so now I think if I So rescue 40 was here, so we started running it. >> Yes.

575
03:20:20.479 --> 03:20:36.080
>> As a second rescue. >> Yes. >> Now that it's at station 40, that second rescue is a reserve rescue, but we've already we have ordered a new rescue to be the second rescue at 131. >> We have two coming.

576
03:20:36.080 --> 03:20:55.279
>> All right. >> Remember, it takes two years to get a rescue. Okay. Four years for an engine. >> All right. >> So 10 years for a tower. >> Four years. >> Okay. And then we had you had talked to me a little bit about the logistics

577
03:20:55.279 --> 03:21:12.239
coordinator. You want >> Yes, sir. >> Share that. >> We we had we have one position approved. Uh the first person was there for six months. The second person was there for a year and now it's been vacant for six months. Yeah.

578
03:21:12.239 --> 03:21:29.439
Um, so we were that position covers all our logistic needs, our bunker gear, our station stuff to keep that, our trucks, um, our radios, all that. So, it's really more than one person can truly handle. We was

579
03:21:29.439 --> 03:21:45.279
trying to step one person into it, then get a second position. Um, that's what we asked for in this budget. We asked I think last year also but for the second person just try to alleviate that but we're don't even have that logistics person filled right now. The DC and the

580
03:21:45.279 --> 03:22:10.000
battalions have took it back over all those duties. >> Okay. So we have one position that's not filled. >> Yes sir. >> Okay. And you want a second? >> Yes sir. >> Would you hire an old bald guy? at half at half price rice.

581
03:22:10.000 --> 03:22:26.399
>> Yeah. >> Oh, half price rice. Yes. >> Can you clone yourself make two? >> Then apparently you don't really need the position. >> You [laughter] wow. >> You don't have to pay FRS benefits to

582
03:22:26.399 --> 03:22:46.640
them. Just saying. That's a savings. Given that description, that's could be a number of people. >> I am bald. >> Okay. >> Would you still need FRS? >> All right. Any questions for Chief?

583
03:22:46.640 --> 03:23:22.880
>> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Mr. Johnson. Oh no, not Mr. Johnson. Mr. Cell, right? Parks and Grounds or you got somebody else that wants to talk about two maintenance workers?

584
03:23:22.880 --> 03:23:40.160
>> I Yes. Um, you want to come up and talk about the maint? Yeah. Because, uh, a lot of these were put in before I took over, um, the parks division and was not involved in a lot of that. >> Okay. >> Matt was.

585
03:23:40.160 --> 03:23:56.160
>> Hello, Mayor. Uh, commissioners. Um, so the request for the two additional, um, maintenance workers were to help our team downtown as well as help out with the new, um, Fort Melon amphitheater improvements as well as Lake Corolla. There's a lot of sidewalk that's been put down that we're going to responsible

586
03:23:56.160 --> 03:24:14.880
for edging. Um we're also bringing inhouse the um annuals. So that's going to be additional work on staff. So we're just trying to plan accordingly. >> Can we afford that? I think that's a big ROI for us. >> What

587
03:24:14.880 --> 03:24:32.439
>> to get the two maintenance workers. >> But while they're here, can I ask them a question? >> Okay. Thank you. Um, is it true that the the amphitheater is going to cost us $250,000 a year to maintain?

588
03:24:32.720 --> 03:24:51.200
>> We haven't put that number out. >> Okay. >> I wouldn't suspect. >> Okay. I didn't know if we were hiring a whole crew for I I didn't know where this person got this number from. >> But a lot of what they've done is a plug

589
03:24:51.200 --> 03:25:06.479
and play. I thought so. >> We'll have some equipment that we'll go over there, plug it in, and we can do a movie or music, whatever. If you're doing a major concert, they're going to bring in their own sound, >> right? >> Otherwise, it would be plug and play for

590
03:25:06.479 --> 03:25:22.399
a lot of the events that we do. >> Okay. >> Do we have a completion date, an estimate? >> I just asked for that. >> I think we're still the end of the month, but the electronic portion of it ready to get that

591
03:25:22.399 --> 03:25:51.600
finished. The issue there right now is more of a logistical problem. I I think we're still a couple of months away before we're going to be able we're trying to find that we know when we can start it out. We already request >> really

592
03:25:51.600 --> 03:26:09.920
>> so we are looking to find most of the things special event so they don't have amplified sound. Um so we're going to need to give them 60 days to go through the special process.

593
03:26:09.920 --> 03:26:26.479
So, we're trying to get ahead of that so we can go ahead and start moving it out. >> So, do you think possibly by the uh Christmas holiday or are we looking into 2027? >> The last thing we were told was yesterday meeting was that they expected

594
03:26:26.479 --> 03:26:42.960
by August that we should have by the end of August. >> Is so one more question on that. Is it true we're requiring a $3 million insurance policy to rent it? Not >> my knowledge. >> Okay,

595
03:26:42.960 --> 03:26:57.920
>> that was on Facebook. It must be true. >> I know. And it's a former mayor's daughter. It's got to be true. [clears throat] >> We have we we're still working on pricing and the the application. >> Okay.

596
03:26:57.920 --> 03:27:13.840
>> Okay. it. >> And I haven't thought this through yet, so it may just be a bad idea. >> Your retirement party? >> No. >> Oh. Um, since it's going to be basically a rental,

597
03:27:13.840 --> 03:27:34.239
can we set standard parameters that are covered for a special event so they don't actually have to go through the special event process just to have all the same things checked that we know are going to happen? >> I we probably can with the exception of

598
03:27:34.239 --> 03:27:49.040
um road closures, alcohol, and things like that. Those are um those are really hard to put hard numbers on because in even the size of the event, if you've got a thousand people coming, you're going to need more police officers than

599
03:27:49.040 --> 03:28:05.760
if you've got 100 people coming. >> So maybe come up with three scenarios. Yeah, it's >> but I mean it just seems like it's going to be the same thing >> that we're running into >> over and over again. >> And if there can just be a standard package or packages

600
03:28:05.760 --> 03:28:20.880
>> plug and play, >> it'd be a whole lot >> it would be easier for us. It would be easy for us to put that out there. Um so we will work on that. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Yes,

601
03:28:20.880 --> 03:28:36.880
>> Jerry. Does the end of August that doesn't include Lake Corolla? >> Does not include Lake Cora. >> Do we have an ETA on that one? >> Not. >> Okay. >> Matt, is it going to be difficult for us if we don't have those two? Is it going

602
03:28:36.880 --> 03:28:54.880
to be um heavy on parks and recreation without those two once all of this has been completed? >> I think we will see it. You know, there'll be some things that aren't able to be accomplished. So I think what our citizens are used to seeing, what they expect from us, we will see a

603
03:28:54.880 --> 03:29:19.200
difference. >> Thank you. And I would recommend that whether we budget for any new positions or not, and we would have to figure out how we're going to pay for

604
03:29:19.200 --> 03:29:36.800
them, but that no um job posting or hiring takes place until after November 4th. Agreed. I >> mean, it doesn't make sense to

605
03:29:36.800 --> 03:29:52.479
to say we're going to hire people and then two months or a month into the budget realize that we won't be able to have them the following year. Well, could we decide and then

606
03:29:52.479 --> 03:30:08.560
depending on what happens November 4th, we say, "Okay, we'll open it up for, you know, to maintenance workers versus revisiting the conversation after November 4th." Commissioner, the concern I have is no

607
03:30:08.560 --> 03:30:26.239
matter what happens on November the 4th, the state legislature, I think, will be doing some of the other adjustments restricting municipal spending. Well, y'all are making my head hurt because I could have sworn we just talked about a hiring freeze. >> Now we're talking about adding

608
03:30:26.239 --> 03:30:44.399
positions. >> Well, that's why I brought that up. We >> just started a hiring freeze and now we're talking about the possibility of wanting to add positions, >> which >> so whether we budget for them or not,

609
03:30:44.399 --> 03:31:08.160
they would still be frozen anyway. [clears throat] Well, >> are we ready to talk about the budget director yet? >> No, >> we can talk about a budget director. I'm I'm sort of shying away from that because I remember the last time we had

610
03:31:08.160 --> 03:31:30.880
one and I like Cindy way better [laughter] >> a budget. I >> think that that was the person we we told they were no longer allowed to talk at the budget meetings. [laughter] Um, and I don't know if we have any

611
03:31:30.880 --> 03:31:46.160
citizens in the chamber there or if any will be actually listening to this, but Cindy, it might be beneficial to describe the difference, not in detail, but the difference between zerobased budgeting

612
03:31:46.160 --> 03:32:02.880
and strategic budgeting. It is mentioned in the handout you gave us and that governments are switching from the former to the latter. Uh we hear citizens occasionally especially of late because of property taxes talk about why

613
03:32:02.880 --> 03:32:20.720
don't we do zerobased budgeting and but we do and I don't know if they really understand what that means. Do you have a short way of describing that here? zerobased budgeting. Um, basically we um make the departments um justify every

614
03:32:20.720 --> 03:32:36.720
penny that they spend. Um they're not allowed just to take their budget and increase it by CPI each year. We go through every single item in every single account that um each department has

615
03:32:36.720 --> 03:32:53.760
>> and um I think um they will agree um but that it's not a fun experience but it is something that we do um and they do justify um those costs and um it's not not like we just say okay CPI is going

616
03:32:53.760 --> 03:33:09.760
up 4% go ahead and increase your budget by 4%. Yeah. Okay. And I I appreciate that because I just want people to understand that we do do that now and we don't just tack on a percentage increase. >> Commissioner Thomas, as we're going

617
03:33:09.760 --> 03:33:26.000
through this, and that's this is to the mayor and all the commissioners, you may have heard a constant theme that while salary compensations are being adjusted for the most part, operating expenses have been decreased. >> Mhm.

618
03:33:26.000 --> 03:33:44.000
>> And that's because of the process. Miss Lindsay just talked about meeting with the directors and going through and looking at decreasing operating expenses. >> And are we in fact making a move to strategic budgeting now or later? >> Um, we have not discussed that. I had

619
03:33:44.000 --> 03:34:00.399
planned on discussing that at our actual next executive management meeting. Um, I know the mayor and I talked about possibly doing it a couple years ago. Um it is a lot of extra work um on the departments and on finance to do that.

620
03:34:00.399 --> 03:34:17.439
Um yeah and that's one of the reasons um for the possibility of a budget manager um director position. >> Um and >> yeah and I do have a handout. I don't know even if we don't discuss what I'd like to hand out on the position.

621
03:34:17.439 --> 03:34:34.560
>> Well and that's what I'm kind of talking about because I appreciated you're sharing that handout. I know that she's not going to answer me right now because she's handing this out, but um it was a useful document in terms of the justification for it. How we compare to

622
03:34:34.560 --> 03:34:51.680
other cities because most other cities have at least one budget director, if not two. Interesting that Alimon Springs budget managers in their police department for some reason. Um and yeah, because of all of the new legislation.

623
03:34:51.680 --> 03:35:10.000
Go ahead, Patrick. >> Because they had to figure out a way to pay him. >> Oh, and they had the money. Yeah. So, it makes sense here. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to separate this from the other unbudgeted positions in

624
03:35:10.000 --> 03:35:25.200
terms of how we handle freezing things and not making decisions till November. But I was especially curious about the zerobased versus strategic budgeting and how we're going to tackle that, whether

625
03:35:25.200 --> 03:35:41.279
or not the the changes that we're making might make that a little less painful. But >> um and then the other item that um a new budget manager position um would help with is something the mayor brought up

626
03:35:41.279 --> 03:35:57.680
tonight is um justifying capital. Um this position would be responsible for sitting with the departments and walking through their capital um budgets um each year and that is something that is not done

627
03:35:57.680 --> 03:36:13.279
currently. We depend on the departments totally for that. >> Yeah. So, you're doing things from an accounting perspective now, saying, "Here are the numbers. Here's how we count things. We can tell you what you have." But not as strategic as we could

628
03:36:13.279 --> 03:36:51.800
be if we had that budget person. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> If we get the budget director and they can find me a way to get two maintenance worker ones, then I'm

629
03:36:52.160 --> 03:37:08.239
>> I'm thinking that way too, Commissioner Britain. you know what what can we trade around here to get this expertise that we need uh without a lot of extra money. >> Well, Cindy, I know Apopka is really the only

630
03:37:08.239 --> 03:37:26.960
city with um the same number of people. >> Yeah. And they've got two, >> I guess. Actually, I was expecting Alamont's budget to be bigger than ours, but that doesn't include fire, does it? >> Right. Correct. They don't have fire. Okay. >> And a couple other cities do not have

631
03:37:26.960 --> 03:37:42.840
fire as well. >> I don't remember who, but I think there's three of them, >> right? Um, and I know Apopka's proposing, I think, a 1 mil increase. >> Yes. >> This year. Um,

632
03:37:43.120 --> 03:37:59.840
would you be able to move somebody from accounting to that position? >> Not currently. >> Okay. It's worth a shot. Well, I was going to ask the same question because I I know we've added employees to your department the last couple years, right? >> We and with some of that write up too is

633
03:37:59.840 --> 03:38:16.720
about the new standards accounting is coming down with on us too. We have to redo our entire financial s statements this year and next year we have to redo our entire capital um 30 $310 million worth of capital. Um,

634
03:38:16.720 --> 03:38:39.200
>> so you don't have anybody on staff currently for this position either then? >> Correct. >> It would be nice if the auditing timing was word different. [clears throat] Well, we're not going to make this decision today, but I I again, I did

635
03:38:39.200 --> 03:39:02.080
appreciate you're putting this information together and uh we we should not lose sight of the need to do better, more strategic budgeting. And I don't have it in front of me, but

636
03:39:02.080 --> 03:39:32.880
I'm assuming this is a $100,000 job >> for um the budget manager. Yeah. About 125. It's on your computer right now. [snorts] >> Well, budget director, logistics coordinator, and two maintenance workers is $416,000

637
03:39:32.880 --> 03:39:48.080
if you want to start looking at the budget. >> Well, okay. So, I'll I'll I'll be the I'll be the bad guy up here. I did ask I did ask uh what uh what the cost

638
03:39:48.080 --> 03:40:05.520
difference is between a is it 4% we have budgeted for a cost of living >> uh to a 3% and it was uh was it $500,000 you told me >> roughly >> again the the budget includes a 3% cost

639
03:40:05.520 --> 03:40:22.640
of living and a total of 1% for merit adjustments. So that's where the 4% came from. >> Okay. So, but the 1% would be a half million, I think, is what he told me. I >> think it's a little over a half million. >> A little over. So, what is a half a

640
03:40:22.640 --> 03:40:37.600
percent then? It would be half of that. >> Okay. Um I don't know um if in the current climate

641
03:40:37.600 --> 03:40:56.160
we can justify giving those kind of raises. Um, and so and and and part of this discussion is also us still being closed on Fridays.

642
03:40:56.160 --> 03:41:13.279
Um, and I recently got a picture where we were closed Thursday at 2:00. Uh, the second floor of this building was completely dark. Um, Commissioner, was that a specific day?

643
03:41:13.279 --> 03:41:29.120
>> A Thursday. >> That's not good. >> Not last Thursday. It was a Thursday. >> Um, and a citizen a citizen took a picture and it was dark up there. Um,

644
03:41:29.120 --> 03:41:44.800
so >> how' they get up there? >> Was it like a department that was dark? >> No, the whole second floor was dark all the way down. all the way down. >> So again, the mayor said, "How did they get up if nobody was here?" >> I didn't say nobody was here. I said the

645
03:41:44.800 --> 03:42:00.880
second floor was dark. >> But they can't get up to the second floor unless they're going someplace. >> Okay, I'm a liar. I'll get you the picture. >> I'm not saying that. I'm saying go through security. >> My point is is our residents are

646
03:42:00.880 --> 03:42:16.880
questioning these things. Our residents are questioning how we increase our our revenue every year but don't offer five day a week services. And in this case it looked like and again we go back to

647
03:42:16.880 --> 03:42:38.960
perception it looked like a three and a half day service. >> We also offer more than 40 hours a week. Perception can be reality. >> We can't ignore these things. >> You can

648
03:42:38.960 --> 03:42:55.200
>> there's limited facts, but >> you there's limited services you can get on Friday. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That is an ongoing complaint. >> Yes. And there's limited services you can get for development in this city on a

649
03:42:55.200 --> 03:43:10.560
Friday. Is that correct? >> That has changed. >> Okay. We have people wanting to farm out the services and skip the city services because of that reason.

650
03:43:10.560 --> 03:43:30.399
Okay, I'm going to stop before I get into the matter and the chief needs to come up here. >> Now, if I do that, then I'm the angry one. My point is is there are some things we

651
03:43:30.399 --> 03:43:48.720
could consider to shave here. Okay. A 3% increase is dogone good in this climate right now. A 4% is better. There's no doubt about it. And our people deserve it.

652
03:43:48.720 --> 03:44:10.080
But we can't cry poor on one hand and give out money on the other hand. We may as well just not even cry poor. But I also think that if we're going to do the 4%

653
03:44:10.080 --> 03:44:29.199
there needs to be a cap on how much one employee can get. >> I agree. Finally, I got a second >> third. I've always said giving raises by percent is not the way to do it. >> It's not

654
03:44:29.199 --> 03:44:49.439
it's not >> I don't think that we should decrease the the increase. And as as much as I agree with with with Patrick, I do think that the city has made efforts to try to accommodate, not not a lot cuz God

655
03:44:49.439 --> 03:45:04.319
knows, but being closed on Fridays and having certain departments open like the utilities department and having other departments on call, they have made an an effort and the 4-day work week is one

656
03:45:04.319 --> 03:45:20.640
of the incentives to work here. We're not the highest paying employee uh um city and we do stretch our employees thin. I do think that we need to do some restructuring

657
03:45:20.640 --> 03:45:37.439
and uh see what we can do about the return on our investment of that 4% increase. But I think a lot more can be done if we managed a little bit better. We we've been doing the 410s for 10

658
03:45:37.439 --> 03:45:54.720
years and we complained we complained at the time we did it because of the '08 >> budget issue. There is a lot of stats out there that show the huge increase

659
03:45:54.720 --> 03:46:11.840
in our revenue in the last four years alone. And yet we have not returned to a fiveday open for business policy here. >> City of Castlebury is four days too,

660
03:46:11.840 --> 03:46:26.239
right? >> Oto. >> Oto. >> Castleberry also. >> No, Casberry also. >> So Oto and Cabberry. >> Oh, maybe it's Castlebury and not Oto. >> I know Castlebury is I don't >> No, Oto is I know Oto is. >> So now it's same for Cbury and Oto.

661
03:46:26.239 --> 03:46:41.520
Financially though, it doesn't it's not gonna make a difference to go to five days. >> Yeah. It doesn't cost us a dime. Yeah. >> We're not saving money being open four days, >> right? >> Because we got neighbors here

662
03:46:41.520 --> 03:46:58.000
complaining about the AC running when we're not here. >> So, we're not saving electricity. Uh so, that that was I don't I don't know why that excuse was ever given. Well, the savings was they

663
03:46:58.000 --> 03:47:13.439
weren't working 40 hours when we first went to >> four days. It was a cut in hours >> and then once we had the money, we went back up to 40 hours, but did not go back to five days. >> Right. >> I think we did that because we didn't

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get any raises. And in terms of yes, the last few years we've caught up a lot, but if you go back to 2008, 5 and a half% per year increase. It's just most of it's happened in the last four years

665
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and I believe this year is 5.5%. We're back to average. Well, >> so I mean I'm willing to talk about the 1% to to find those other positions. >> Um, but I also, you know,

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>> now that we've gone through it, take a look and see if there's not somewhere else we save money. But I don't see us hiring anyone until after no, you know, November. >> Well, it's already on the record. It's going to be it's going to be blasted that you're talking about hiring new

667
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people. So it you know it doesn't matter when we do it. Um I I we haven't cut enough this year. Then what else do you want to cut if if

668
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November goes the way it's pulled right now? we will be forced and by everything I'm told sitting up here,

669
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I I'm fearful it's going to be drastic. And so I I think it's really difficult for us to talk about adding anybody to this staff when we may be forced to talk about

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worst things ahead >> and I think that's why this budget has been presented to us without those positions in Is it something that we can revisit? >> I mean we >> in No, >> we add positions during the year before.

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>> You can certainly do a budget amendment after and um make that change then which >> I agree that feel like that's our only reasonable option.

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>> Personally, you know what? I think the optics are worse doing it that way. Oh, look, the the cut didn't pass. So, look, they're spending more money. >> Well, we're going to have to have a super majority anyway. >> Not January 1st, right?

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>> Yeah. >> But I'm not sure we've ever not been unanimous. I know >> on any budget vote by the time we get to it. >> Okay. So, anything else?

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>> That's all I have. >> Mr. Mayor, members of commission, our job is to provide information. If after the meeting you have questions, please either send them to Cindy or myself and we'll get the response to all of you. Um, unless you see the need, we do have the meeting scheduled for next Wednesday

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that could be cancelled or if you have questions specifically. We could perhaps handle them during work sessions. >> I think we can probably handle anything else during work session. >> I don't think another meeting is needed, but we did skip all over this carpet on

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the second floor. [laughter] So, are we gonna clean the carpet up? Because Mr. Bonapart said that there was supposed to be doing some changes. Now, it's not going to be doing some changes. Can we just clean the carpet from? >> Have we ever done a a had a carpet cleaner come in to try to clean that spot?

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>> We have done that. >> I believe they did and the stain just popped back up after they cleaned it. >> You believe what? >> I believe they cleaned the carpet once and the stain just remained. It popped. I think it faded and then like a day or two later it popped back right back out. >> It was the the rain water from the

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ceiling, >> right? >> We don't have carpet tiles. the the where we be seeing >> is crazy. >> Yes, we did, mayor. We did clean the carpet um not too long back and this thing did not go away. And I do not

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believe they're carpet tiles. I think it's rolled carpet. >> Yeah, it's not carpet tiles. >> Yeah, they're not tiles. >> So, we're just okay with the carpet walk. >> Hold on. Is the project dead upstairs? >> That is not me. That would be Mr. Rad. We we need to get an answer on this and

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then let's get a a cost on what your carpet is. >> If we're not doing the whole project, then we do the carpet, >> right? Doing the whole project. >> We were um we had permits approved. We were ready to select a contractor, go commence construction. However, there

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was some redesign work. The we found a definite answer on Lahee. So, we had to do some redesign work on that area. Remember, we started moving Lahee to the closer to the elevator. Plus the city clerk's office wanted some changes and then I was recommended to do a second that's >> well I didn't

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>> Oh the city clerk again >> and then and then um there was some um recommendation for a second elevator because we've had so many problems with the existing elevator >> and as as you guys have mentioned um >> elevators are expensive. >> Yeah. So and then most importantly is

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the um property tax reform on the horizon. So do we really want to make these all these changes with that uh on the horizon? So that was we've slowed down the project um because of those reasons that I just mentioned. >> Okay. So where in the budget is the money for that?

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>> It's third gen. I think >> it's third gen. Um it hasn't been budgeted until we went out and got that number and then we were going to bring but we had already got it approved um to use third gen money. You know you have to ask all everybody in the county if

685
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it's okay to use it. We've already done gone through that process. So the thought process is if property taxes are cut, we won't use third gen for it. >> Well, I don't I don't know if it' be prudent for us to add offices upstairs.

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If we're not if we're talking about the cuts you guys are talking about, I don't know if we should it should be prudent we do that. So that's why it slowed down the project a little bit. Like I said, we were ready to go, but maybe we should wait. >> Yeah, we're not sure what city hall will look like after November.

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>> Okay. >> If you remember, we were adding a lot of offices upstairs. And then Lahi have had to we found out the definite about Lohee, so we had to redesign. We haven't done it yet, but we have to do that. >> Um, and then the other changes that I

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made about the elevator and some other things. >> Okay. Can you put up with a stain for four months? >> I didn't know it was that deep. Apparently, everything in the city of Sanford is that deep. So, just leave it be. I just thought it looked tacky when you walk up there. But, you know, if you got to cut an arm and a leg to clean it,

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don't worry about it. We're good. >> Commissioner appreciates your concern because we see it all the time. >> My recommendation going to be let's wait until November and if we're not going to do the second floor, then you replace the carpet. whether or not the vote goes You're

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good, Craig. Um, in November, whichever way it goes, beneficial or not, are we going to have the conversation about restructuring the city of of Sanford government, or is that something we wait till we get new leadership in play?

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Like, >> what do you mean restructuring? I >> you mean the form of government? >> No, just staffing like I talked about earlier. We were talking about directors. We're talking about cross trainining. I talked about

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that when we were doing our goals and accomplishments. >> Um looking at our our flowchart um so that you know we are prepared for for the future. Yeah, that should be a very thorough

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discussion. >> I'm just wondering are we are we planning on having that that conversation? I know that the commission did before I became a commissioner six years ago and then that's then uh public works and utilities became one and I'm

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saying I think it's about time for another look at things. Commissioner, I think it is appropriate and staff has been planning at an upcoming a soon upcoming commission meeting to talk about possible ramifications should the proposal

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be approved because we are already thinking about that. We want to share with you some of our thoughts. >> Okay. >> So I guess do you have specific suggestions you want to make for restructuring or you want to see if there suggestions out there? I want the

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city manager to manage. Why do I have to come up with with things? I'm I manage to get me the information what this would look like, how it will benefit the city. This is the new organizational chart and bring it to the commission. I don't

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>> Yeah, I agree, Commissioner Britain. I think that we're in a position of wanting to know uh at some point we should have in front of us our two different options depending on the vote. How does the organization look personnel-wise

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if it passes? If it doesn't pass, >> budgeting is a big part of it. >> I want to remind you that the staff belongs to the city manager according to our charter. >> It is not the commission's responsibility,

699
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>> right? So therefore, I shouldn't be telling them how to do to do it. I think we're just looking at it when to we want to have the awareness of when to expect information based on those decisions. A concern also commission and mayor is

700
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the impact on staff recognizing that anything would impact staff. I didn't understand what that what that was. >> Well, I'm confused by the whole thing of what we're trying to So,

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we want the city manager to present a different organization chart, using less staff, rearranging staff. >> Staff is not your business. It's the city manager.

702
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>> Okay. But the city manager works at the will of the commission. And the commission is saying we might be coming up on some difficult times. So let's not wait. Let's look at how we can save jobs. Let's look how we can restructure our our city government as in employees

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and let's get prepared. I gave examples and also Patrick helped for me to clarify what I was talking about with different department heads so that we're not coming back later on and saying, "Okay, we've got to fire, we've got to do furlows, we've got to do layoffs." I'm saying, "Let's prepare that. Let's

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look at our chart. I don't understand how this is that hard. And Art, you've been so used to being so involved in the details. I'm saying, let's allow the city manager to manage, bring it back to the commission, and then we have a conversation about it. Let's be proactive.

705
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Not that difficult. >> As a staff member, what I heard Commissioner Britain saying about managers or directors or managers that don't have a department is that those people should not be

706
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making the salary that they're making. >> Wonderful. I'm not saying that >> because they don't manage anyone or direct anyone. I'm just saying that's me. I can't speak for the rest of staff. But that is

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what it looks like. >> No. So I'm what I'm what Commissioner Britain is saying is if you have a department that has a director and now those departments are losing employees, let's restructure it so maybe community development can work alongside with

708
04:00:07.760 --> 04:00:23.279
something else and take on some more responsibilities because LAIP is no longer there. When we've got to explain this to our residents, explain this to our taxpayers, our bosses, and you say you have a director and then you have a city manager. I'm I'm watching CDBG M meetings where people are saying you're

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failing to manage. So now I'm saying how do we look at our system and say how can we make sure that we're spreading it out so no one loses their job and so that no one has to decrease in their pay. Let's let's let's let our city manager help

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them so we're not looking back at it like I was a month ago asking how can we save a city employees position and because we've already spoken about Maria I can say it publicly I did not want her to lose her job just like I don't want anyone in community development or

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economic development to lose their job when our constituents come to us and say well what's the value on that person being a director well that person no longer has lit but they're also So now working alongside recreation or whatever because we're looking at what's

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happening in in January and everything that's that's coming before us. I do not want anybody to lose their job. I do not want anybody to have a decrease in pay pay. I want us to be able to justify it. >> Okay. Well, I think if there's an 18%

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decrease in our budget, people are losing jobs. >> We don't have to though. >> Okay. So, in terms of the budget, if commissioners have questions that you think about after the meeting, please get them to us

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so we can get that to you. If there's specific comments or discussions of other items you'd like to have, what I'm hearing is rather than having an additional budget session, we can look at having discussions at work sessions. I also want to remind you that you have a shade meeting from 4 to 5 on Monday.

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So the workshop will be from 5 to 6. >> What is that for? >> Legal matters. >> Excuse me. Yes. Where else I >> Oh, that's that's why that guy messaged me today. Want to talk to me.

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somebody from that other party. So, I should not be talking to him, right? >> I would not do not think we're supposed to be talking to the people we're in litigation with. >> I know. That's why I was shocked when he messaged me. I was like, "What the heck?" >> All right.

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So, and then we will >> Thanks for that reminder, Trac. >> And then we will do look into doing a workshop where we look at a different organizational chart. We were going to be doing looking at a workshop to talk about some of the ramifications that we would have to

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adjust to should it be proposed. I mean, should it pass. >> All right. >> Okay. Okay. Anything else? We're adjourned. Thank you everyone.