I'm wondering if they have >> Yeah, I'm just a redo cup. But that's what they let me go get some >> because of the quilt unveiling. We're going to delay about 5 to 10 minutes um to let sort of the crowd out there
disperse and then we'll get started. Okay. >> So, we're not recording. >> There will be a slight delay. >> Okay. All right. I love it. Okay, >> tell me next time you're going to be here. >> We will go ahead and call to order the
meeting of the Sanford City Commission for Monday, February 9th, 2026. We apologize for the delay. Um >> All right. Your mic can't be on. >> You got to talk in. It's on. >> It's okay. >> Yeah, you're good. >> All right. Our first order of business
will be legislative prayer led by uh Pastor Robert Bradley of the Bread of Life Christian Church followed by the pledge of allegiance. Um please stand if you can. Let us pray. Eternal God our father, we thank you for this opportunity and privilege you give us to come boldly
before your throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in our time of need. We thank you, God, for the reason whereby we're here tonight. Uh we pray for the leaders of this city. You said in your word that for us to have peaceful and quiet lives, God, we
should pray for the leaders of the land. So we lift our commission before you tonight that their hearts and their minds are about this city, the people of this city, the business of this city, the betterment of this city. God, we understand that we are in a time right now in our country where hatred and
division are at an all-time high where love should be. But we're praying and asking you to grace this little small city of Sanford >> that we will be a light. We will be a beacon of hope, light, and love uh where people need it. So God, bless this meeting tonight. Bless the
commissioners. Endow them with wisdom, knowledge, and understanding to lead this community that you have entrusted them to. So Father, we thank you and we give you glory. We give you honor and praise. Call this meeting blessed and this beautiful city of Sanford blessed in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen.
>> I pledge to allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, pastor. Thank you, pastor.
Pastor brother, we have a couple of proclamations. I want to start with the Samford Pop Warner cheer team. So, if all of them can come up and join me. [applause and cheering] >> [applause] [snorts] >> and the coaches. So, I understand y'all been doing pretty
good lately. Is that right? Whereas Sanford Pop Warner chair has emerged as a source of pride for the city of Sanford, exemplifying perseverance, teamwork, and excellence through years of dedication and rebuilding. And whereas in 2022, after a 16-year absence from nationals
competition, Sford Pop Warner Cheer returned to the national stage by sending its first team to nationals, achieving an outstanding third place national finish and bringing home a national trophy, signaling a new era for the program. And whereas in 2023, the program continued its remarkable ascent
by sending three teams and four routines to nationals, competing against elite programs from across the nation and returning to Sanford with two national trophies, including the program's first national championship and JV sideline chair and a third place national finish and JV show chair. Whereas in 2024,
Sanford Pop Warner Chair advanced four teams and five routines to the national competition, demonstrating the depth, preparation, and talent that its athletes had achieved and capturing another national championship in JV show cheer. And whereas in 2025, the program
achieved its most successful season to date, sending three teams to national and returning with three national trophies, including two national championships, one national runnerup, and firmly establishing Sanford Pop Warner Chair as a consistent and competitive national powerhouse with a
legacy of excellence. And whereas the success of Sanford Pop Warner cheer reflects the dedication of its athletes, the commitment of its coaches, the dedication of cheer coordinator Ebony Young, and all of the Pop Warner leadership, the support of families, and a community belief in the power of youth
programs to inspire a lifetime of confidence, discipline, and values. Now therefore, I would wed by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby officially proclaim February 9, 2026 as Samford Pop Warner Cheer Day and
encourage all residents to congratulate these athletes and coaches on their achievements. [applause] I'm going to come down here cuz I'm going to chase you with the microphone after they do. >> Okay. Thank you so much.
Hey everybody, please >> slide down. Slide down. All right. Three, two, one. [applause] So, first off, I just want to say thank you to our amazing cheer coordinator,
Ebony Young, who happens to be my wife. On behalf of Sanford Pop Warner, um I think we started this many, many, many years ago, even before I was here. Uh but we came into the program and uh about 17 18 years ago and it's been our mission to just continue to put on for
this beautiful city. We're not from the city but we basically consider this city our home as we've been here for almost 20 years now. Um and really we make it a point to give back to this community, give back to these children. Uh it's super important to make sure they have a place where they're safe, they feel
valued, and most importantly getting opportunities like this to be celebrated. Um so my name is Loren Young. I'm the commissioner for Sanford Pop Warner and um you know it's just really our honor both my wife and I Ebony and Young to just continue to stand beyond uh stand here before these
young ladies and these coaches and just this program to celebrate Sanford Popcorn at cheer day on February 9th, 2026. [applause] want to come out for that. >> You want to come out? We're playing it by ear.
>> Winging it. Change your mind again. >> So, you don't need a picture. Um, >> we I read this proclamation earlier this evening out when we were doing the the ceremony for the quilt, but I want to
read it again to make sure it's in the the record, and I'm asking the city clerk to actually place it in the minutes of meeting. So whereas Goldsboro, a community located west of French Avenue, was incorporated as a town of Goldsboro on
December 1, 1891, becoming the second incorporated African-American American municipality in the state of Florida. And whereas Goldsboro was founded by William Clark and 19 registered voters and the self-governing black community became a proud thriving town with its
own businesses, churches, post office, school, and civic institutions established by African-Americans who were business owners, educators, railroad workers, farmers, and laborers in produce houses and iceous. And whereas between 1891 and 1911, 12
community leaders served as Goldsboro's government officials in the positions of mayor, clerk of court, treasurer, tax assessor, tax collector, marshall, alderman, and postmaster, demonstrating the town's thriving self-governance and civic pride.
And then whereas in March of 1911, the city of Sanford drafted a new charter incorporating the town of Goldsboro and the neighborhood of Sanford Heights into the Sanford city limits. And in April 11, 1911, the Sanford city council passed a resolution calling for the
state legislature to revoke the charter of the town of Goldsboro and approve the new Sanford charter. And whereas on April 26, 1911, at the urging of the city of Sanford, state representative and former mayor Forest Lake, state representative SA Robinson, and state
senator LC Massie in the Florida legislature dissolved the town of Goldsboro and annex the land into the city of Sanford, causing Goldsboro to lose its identity as an independent, thriving, and self-governed community. And whereas following annexation, the
city of Sanford renamed several of Goldsboro's historically named streets to the numerical names of West 9th Street, West 12th Street, West 13th Street, West 13th Place, West 14th Street, West 15th Street, and changed Clark Street to Lake Avenue in honor of
Forest Lake, removing connections to the founders of Goldsboro. And whereas Goldsboro and the surrounding neighborhoods were neglected for many years with little maintenance or improvement of infrastructure until the late 1900s in early 2000s when the
city of Sanford began to invest in the neighborhood paving streets, expanding the community center, adding streetscape, and offering building improvement grants among other endeavors. And whereas in 2012, the mayor and city comm commission unanimously voted to restore two of
Goldsboro's historic street names in recognition of the community's rich history, renaming Lake Avenue to William Clark Avenue to honor the town's founder and renaming 13th Street as historic Goldsboro Boulevard. And whereas the strength, resilience, and beauty of Goldsboro live on through the dedicated
efforts of Goldsboro front porch, historic Goldsboro Main Street, the Goldsboro Museum, and through symbols of reconciliation such as the Goldsboro commemorative quilt, which celebrates Sanford's shared story and commitment to strengthen racial relations, inclusion,
and healing. And whereas the city of Sanford now recognizes the important history of Goldsboro, the contributions of its residents, and the need to continue its renewal. And while we cannot know what would have been had Goldsborough not lost its charter, we can acknowledge the past and invest in a
f a better future. Now therefore, IR Woodruff, by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, and on behalf of the city of Sanford, do hereby formally apologize to the early citizens of Goldsboro and their descendants for actions taken by the city that led to
the loss of Goldsboro town charter and do hereby proclaim February 9, 2026 as historic town of Goldsboro Day and call upon all citizens to join in honoring the legacy of Goldsboro and our shared journey towards reconciliation, justice, and peace and invite
>> [applause] >> And I invite you to view the quilt as you leave, which is um in the hallway across from the commission chambers. Um one thing we we were um blessed this evening to have some descendants of William Clark here um with us as we
unveiled this tonight. So, thank you [applause] Okay. With regards to speaking before the city commission to facilitate public input, if you plan to speak on an item, um please complete one of the yellow citizen input forms and sub um that you'll find on the back table and place
it in the basket to bring be brought forward. The public will be given an opportunity to speak on any item before the city commission during a regular meeting. Before the consent agenda, um I will ask if anyone wishes to speak on any of those items before a motion is made. During public hearings, I will ask
if anyone wishes to speak um each item before each motion. On regular items, if comments are not called for, please raise your hand and be recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item except a person representing an organization and presenting its views during a quai judicial hearing. Citizen participation
is after public hearings and individuals may address the city commission on any topic not on the agenda. There is a five-minute time limit for citizen comments. So that gets us to the minutes of January 26, 2026. >> Move to approve.
>> Second. >> Motion second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Um, anyone in the audience wish to speak on any of the consent items? No one bring commission. We are staff
has asked to pull in. So, if we can get a motion on A through M, unless you all want to pull anything. >> Hold on one moment. Mayor Sha. >> Yeah, I was acknowledging N to be pulled. >> Okay. I move to approve items consent agenda items A through M.
>> Second. >> Motion. Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. brings us to second reading of Ordinance 4843. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the reszoning of a parcel of real property totaling
approximately 11.02 02 acres in size located at 1201 West 3rd Street and assigned tax parcel identification numbers 251930 506 000000-001J 0251930700
0 25119 35072 0000 and 251930 35 AG07160010 by the Seino County Property Appraiser. Which property is located within the S
Sanford city limits per the attached map to establish the Carishbrook Terrace PD with modified design standards. Providing for findings and intent, providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions, providing for the adoption of a map by reference,
providing for conflicts, providing for severability, providing for non-codification and the correction of scrier's errors, and providing for an effective date and potential reversion. >> Mr. the mayor, members of the city commission, at its regularly scheduled meeting on January the 8th of 2026, the
city's planning and zoning commission unanimously recommended that the city commission adopt the ordinance to reszone 11.02 acres at project address 1201 West Third Street. And it is with that consent that the staff is recommending that the commission approve the resolution, the
ordinance. >> Okay. In order to conserve time, I'll read the statement one once tonight. This applies to public hearings A, B, and C. Um, when an agenda item involves a quazid doable process, the commissioners must disclose all exparte
communications, including the name of the communicator and the time, place, and substance of the communication. Written communications, commissioner's investigations, site visits, and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made part of the record. Persons who have opinions contrary to those expressed in an exparte
communication may refute or respond to the communication at the hearing when they make their presentation. In a qua judicial process, parties to the proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have legal standing to appeal the decision can also be can also request to be recognized as
a party um to the proceeding. Parties are subject to cross-examination and must give their testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party to the proceedings to be recognized and provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not subject to cross-examination and are not sworn in
as evidentiary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide facts relevant to the application are considered in the decision. Qualifications of city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided to the city commission must be competent, material, and substantial under Florida
law. A guide to quai judicial proceedings has been published on the city's website and copies are available the table at the back of the chambers. So if anyone any applicants for um public hearing A um B or C if y'all
would please stand A. So, any of our public hearings tonight, raise your right hand and say state your name. >> Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the
truth. So, help you God. Thank you. All right. Does anyone have anything to declare on this one? >> Nothing to disclose? No. >> All right. Miss Henson, >> as a full presentation was given last week and no comments were made by the
commission. I stand ready to answer any additional questions. I do have the presentation if the two missing commissioners would like me to go back through the commission, but most of it is in your report if you had an opportunity to review that. Just one question. Okay. Um the required
units per building, it said no more than eight dwellings per building. This one is 20 units each. It says it's consistent with the previous phases of development. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So, >> yeah, some of our newer apartment buildings have 40 and 50 units in them. These are still yet smaller buildings
compared to some of our other developments >> and staff is good with that. >> Yeah, that's all I have. >> Okay. Does the applicant? >> Okay. So, does the applicant wish to speak? >> Okay. Then anyone in the public wish to
speak to this item? Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Bring the commission for action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> A motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> Just just looking forward just making this happen, building up the community. You know, a lot of folks excited about
them coming. So, good. All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. >> Mr. Mayor, Mr. I do want to recognize Miss Shipley who's here representing Windover and um say thank you. We're looking forward to the ribbon cutting. >> Thank you. Thank you, Miss Shipley.
>> And I just want to respond to at the previous meeting, Commissioner Britain, you had a question as to attempts to uh lease the property and how that would go. And in my conversations with the developers, my understanding is that while there will not be set aides, there will be affirmative steps taken to ask
or to inquire as to whether previous uh residents of that neighborhood want to return in order to place applications for this development. Thank you, Attorney Green. >> All right, that brings us to second reading ordinance [clears throat] 4844.
Just >> Ordinance number 20264844, an ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, providing for the amending the reszoning, excuse me, amending the zoning on a 48.89 89 acre portion of
real property located at 200 Town Center Circle and assign tax parcel identification numbers 281930 5LW 01000-0000 2919305LW 010B0000 and 2919-305LW-400-0000
00 by the Seino County property appraiser. Which property is located within the Sanford city limits? Map of the property is attached. Establishing a phase one amendment to the semino town center PD with modified design standards providing for findings and intent
providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions providing for the adoption of a map by reference providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for non-codification and the correction of scrier's errors and providing for an effective date and potential reversion.
>> Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, at its regularly scheduled meeting on January the 8th of 2026, the city's planning and zoning commission voted to recommend approval to the city commission of the requested PD amendment with all the applicant requested dev
deviations and the parking lot layout be considered with the revised configuration presented at the hearing. >> Is this way? Should I additional anyone have anything additional to um >> nothing to disclose? >> I have nothing.
Okay. So, since the district commissioner for this particular project was missing last meeting and there were some outstanding questions with the commission members present as well as there was some information discussed that I want to provide some clarity on. I do have a presentation for this one.
So, some basic general information. The property address is been processed as 200 Town Center Circle. If zoned PD, the future land use is I4 high intensity. What they're looking to affect is approximately 50 acre portions and the
owners of TAC Seminal and 320 Town Center Circle LLC. So the requested use, they are looking to modify the seminal town center PD on the former Macy's site. Their original proposal came in around
153,000. It's slightly more than that, which I address later on. It's 2,219 square foot liquor store, tire only vehicle service area, gasoline fuel pump. And then I'm going to, you know, re-emphasize this, which I brought up last meeting, that this is the first
phase of redevelopment of the Seminal Town Center Mall. This stage sets the standards for everything that follows. The strength of its quality and character will shape expectations and direct the course of all future phases. So, some general basic site information.
This is a master plan that they've provided. You can see the overall Town Center Mall, which is a large joint use area. It's one plan development with modified in pieces, but overall it is one development that interacts. We've been in discussions with the new mall
owners and previous actions on the site. The goal is to have an overall lifestyle center that, you know, will be best for the community and the city. So the area in gray is the area that this phase one will officially affect. The site layout
that's been provided by the applicant is shown on the screen. It is still conceptual as they haven't been to um been through the development process as well as the fact that engineering sometimes changes how things are designed. So this is what the aerial of
the mall looks like right now. It's shifted to be in line with the um rendering that I'm going to show on the next slide, but as you can see, it's it's pretty desolate. It's kind of blighted and the redevelopment is definitely something that the city has
been looking forward to and would like to see. So, this is one of the concept plans that's most best aligned with what they're actually providing. There were several in their slideshow from the last meeting. This one actually shows approximately where the Costco is
located, where the outstanding buildings that will remain, which is the Elevate, as well as right now the Dick Sporting Good box is still um located on site, both of which are owned by separate owners. There is an outstanding future
development parcel and then an out parcel that are identified on this. So, this kind of overlays the two um aerial and that concept plan. Give you an idea of where the Costco is going to land versus where the current Macy's is and
where they're demolishing de demolishing the mall property back to the Elevate building which you can see it's back on this one. You can see it lines up with Elevate and then that future development. So, the mall demolition
will go back to there. >> That one is confusing, Eileen. I'm so sorry to interrupt. I don't want us to move forward. Okay. Can we go back one side? Yep. >> Okay. So, I thought that it was supposed to be connected to the mall. I'm seeing parking spaces. Am I missing something? >> No, it's all being demolished. It'll be
freestanding. >> When I when Yeah, that wasn't that's not what we talked about last week. Whoa. Okay. >> Because while I wasn't here, I know that there is that space behind it because
that's needed for the cart storage >> in park. >> But that's what I was asking at the last meeting. I was confused and we were talking about use when we were talking about elevates parking lot and I was asking about the retaining wall and all of that. I did not see where it's going
to be freestanding. I have no objection to it, but I thought that's what I was asking about the the height levels of the the mall and the new construction. I I I don't know where where I missed this. Well, it is a little easier to see
on this one. So, the top because it's oriented in this configuration. North is not up, but if you see the top right corner of the store where it's across all those diagonal spaces, I know >> those diagonal spaces are actually the parking lot, one of the parking lots for Elevate.
>> So, we're demolishing all of the old >> Macy's. >> Macy's and then a little bit further back. >> I swear I asked that. >> Yeah, Macy's will be demolished and then the building will be placed approximately where you see that there.
We did our best to overlay the two. >> Okay. >> And then this kind of lays out, this might help a little. It shows the site plan with the parking spaces in a line drawing on the left and then the
um rendering on the right. So what you'll see is the yellow areas that are beyond the gray that that are affected by this PD master plan, but they have been designed and laid out to correct the parking for elevate that gets
interrupted by the corner of this building. In doing so though, the standards that have been applied currently as shown on this picture are the standards that are supposed to only apply to phase one. So that's one of the discussion items because the areas in
yellow by that rendering show parking with no linear landscape islands. >> Um can we make that bigger? And no. Why don't we have this in
[clears throat] our packing? Why? Oh, the the 11 by17 of the drawing on the left should be in the packet >> because y'all know I'm always asking 30 questions. which Commissioner Thomas, I don't object to it at all, but LA when they
did the presentation the last time, I I I was literally asking so many questions on how the elevations were. I was not it was not made clear that there was parking behind it. I don't I don't object to it, but I still don't see it
in this packet either. >> Well, do you have actually yours? >> I mean, I just have it electronically, but those particular drawings I think are new to us. >> Okay. >> Because it does >> Yeah. The building got narrower it looks like in the drawing. do clarify
that physical separation and the kind of the area in question of how much of that is space for the carts to be distributed versus actual parking for customers. That's why I was asking about the view from the elevate building across the parking lot.
>> Right. And and again, there's no problem, but when we were looking at the side, I we were talking about signage and everything. That's why I'm confused. >> Well, I and then part of the reason for me giving a second presentation today was because there were questions on
behalf of the commission and we had two members that were unable to attend last meeting. So on that I thought [clears throat] >> more clarity based on the revised plans that we did receive just the other day which are the ones you see on the left.
>> The drawing on the right came from their PowerPoint. >> Okay. So, I just pulled it out of their PowerPoint to kind of give you perspective. >> Appreciate that. Yeah, that's good. >> Yeah, that >> explains why we don't have it there. >> Um, >> and it's very helpful. >> Yeah, they weren't available at the time that we had to get our stuff to the
clerk's office for for staff reports. So, >> um, we did try to get them before the packets got made, but I guess they didn't make it to the packets because, you know, the distribution there's an overlapping time. Okay. So,
that being said, yes, it's that being said, the um the photos on the screen should better clarify what it is that is being proposed in terms of where the gas station is on the left, where the
Costco is in the center, where the gap in space is between them and Elevate, the redesigned parking lot. And now what will the exterior of the mall look like now that they're demolishing the old Macy's? Like is there going to
be like some facade on the exter? Like now I'm I'm questioning a lot. >> You can inquire of the applicant there future overall um plans for what's left of the mall, but our understanding is ultimately the main of the middle will be demolished. It's all going to be
demolished except for the anchor tenants that still own their spaces. Eileen, are there more slides you want to go through knowing that we can come back to this one if we need to? >> Yes, that's fine. Um, okay. So,
>> yes, it fixed it because we left it. >> Okay, I'm not confused at all. What? Go ahead. Okay. So, the deviations requested last week we last meeting we spoke of the various deviations. Um, and
when we went to the planning and zoning commission, they had submitted a plan. There were questions between the first and second meeting, we received an email that said, "We would like to um, you know, propose an alternative to how we break up the parking lot and how we want
to explain the layout." So, they did provide two additional layouts. They did a revised site layout, breaking it into four parking courts, the way they described it. Um, it's an alternative way to kind of lay out their parking lot. And they're requesting to wave the
requirement for one spa, one landscape island every 10 spaces and say that it can be one per 20 spaces with an average of 15. I'm not sure how that gets calculated, but that's what their
proposal is for the master plan. So, that was one of the the variances they asked. And then the other one had to do with lateral islands, the ones that I spoke of earlier. They're linear. They run the length of the parking lanes. Um the applicant has proposed a waiver to
to most of the linear landscape strips between the rows. They're required every four rows of parking and then they're short a number of these landscape strips. So that really affects the overall green space within the parking lot. So for clarity from the last
meeting, I wanted [clears throat] to lay out a few things about parking. So the applicant noted that we were proposing them to comply with the large retail goods which by number is true but also
in the fact that they are merchant retail normal goods and if it's a if it's a shopping center that's greater than 100,000 square feet they required three per thousand which is what the city had originally told them. Most of
our large Walmart, Target, Sam's they all balance out somewhere in the four just over four, four and a quarter per thousand because it is a mix of some large goods, large televisions as the applicant had noted to the you know you
go in and get groceries. So in that they sell a large amount of different types of items falling somewhere in the middle. But the base general retail maximum parking is five spaces per thousand. If you apply that to the
entirety of their building, including what I'm sure is storage areas in the rear and office spaces for for people that work there, five spaces per thousand yields still only 823 spaces. They're asking to go higher than that.
which would be for base retail. The thing that needs to be remembered is this sits at the mall. There's joint parking if the parking can't be met. The applicant states that Costco needs a set amount of parking to operate, but if you
can't find a parking space at at Costco, you can park next door. That's the way the plan development is supposed to work. So joint use parking is not something that the planning department feels should be disregarded.
I hope that made sense. >> So >> So the spaces that are in what was the elevate parking lot, does that count as some of their spaces or does that count as the spaces? >> Those are counted as elevates parking spaces.
So, um, >> and Elevate is very much in favor of this new neighbor they're about to have. >> Elevate supports it and the the, you know, we as reviewers of the project support the request. We just are trying
to make sure that the commission understands the amount of waiverss and the loss of green space and landscaping and some other design requirements that would be required of any other occupant. So, there are benefits to redeveloping the
mall. Just remember, we're setting the bar now and the next person's not going to come in and say, "I want to do better than the previous project." We're setting the bar. >> And mayor and commissioners, I would point out that the owner of Elevate is in the audience. >> Okay. >> Yes.
>> But we we are still getting we are still getting some of the landscape standards. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. I'm sorry >> because I'm I'm I'm still trying to think. >> Okay. Well, let me get through the whole presentation and then we can go backward slides. It's easier to go backward after
I've walked through. So, maybe it'll help, you know, kind of make more sense. >> Okay. So um when it comes to reduction or increases in number of parking spaces, the administrative official can reduce the number of spaces when the applicant demonstrates in a parking
study or that a hardship exists that can be proven in a parking study. So the administrative official may approve up to 25% if the applicant submits a parking study that contains at least five examples of similar projects within
a 100 miles of the project location. They have up to 100 miles to prove that this minimum standard that they're asking for is what is absolutely required. Now the majority of what we were able to find when doing our research is that most of the other costs are self-standing. They're not in the
middle of a mall with shared parking spaces. So that we checked, we double checked our records and there has not been a parking study submitted to us meeting the criteria that the parking study is supposed to meet for us to be able to
wave those. Now it says that a reduction in parking and space sizes can be done if the applicant demonstrates a higher level of design incorporating two of the following. Now this is intended for reduction, but on the same side they're
asking for a large increase. So some of the things that would require to say that it's a higher level of design, it would incorporate either more usable open space above the minimum open space requirements, preservation of trees, hardscaping elements, enhanced landscaping, EV charging stations, or
fee and loo payments. These are all alternatives when someone can't meet the parking requirements. So it says the administrative official shall have the discretion to require that an applicant requesting a parking increase be heard by the planning and zoning commission. In this case, it's a
PD reszone. It went to planning and zoning. It's also coming to the city commission. So the city commission can approve an increase in the number whether the request exceeds 25% of the required when the applicant demonstrates in this parking study that they must
contain at least five examples of similar projects within a 100 miles. So the landscape and design requirements, the rendering that was provided last week was this one for the front. This is the one that the mayor had requested some additional landscape renderings for various sides of the
building, especially the back as you would see it from what is the elevate and will be the demolished side of the mall, so to speak. So this is concerning to staff because we know that the linear
landscape islands are not there. So you see some greenery, but just because you see greenery, this is at our target super center. The target super center requested that we wave those linear islands. And at the time the city did, but what really the parking lot looks
like, not from the perspective of the tree site, but it looks like this. So it has no linear landscape islands. So other this is a Costco. They have linear islands on every island, every
row. We're not asking them to do that. But this is Sam's. How are Sam's and you can see although the crepe myrtles are cut back in the landscape strips, you can see that they have one every four lanes like they're supposed to. This is what it's supposed to look like. A mix
of trees every 10. I think they have some variation in their islands because they have the cart corral, but they have landscaping around their cart corral. >> So they have they have parking spaces, cart corral, landscaping around them, and then islands every 10 to 15. They
also have the rows every four four rows of parking. >> It looks like a larger area there. The entire area for parking is larger, right? for Sams or for >> for this example? >> No, this is I mean this is the Sam's, so
it's it's definitely not 850 spaces. >> Not okay. >> But um it's a it's a fairly large parking lot. So it was more for an example to say that this is the difference between ones that have those linear islands versus this one that has
none. >> Okay. That those linear islands are only good if they're maintained. >> That is correct. uh and and the the the project we are speaking of right now >> is a tremendous improvement over what is out out there right now.
>> We get lost in the weeds on these discussions and it's infuriating. >> That was a good pun. >> Um the Sam's parking lot looks awful. I go there all the time. It's not a it's not a great it it's not a great standard
to hold up in front of us tonight. Um, we approved this last meeting. I don't know why we're having this elaborate discussion on on landscape design tonight. >> Well, I appreciate it selfishly >> because I said I wanted to see clearer
explanation of what their landscaping was going to be. >> Okay. >> Um, and well, just continue. >> Okay. Well, this is just if you can see on the right where the very poorly artistically rendered, but where the green lines are on the right side that
aren't on the left are where the additional linear strips would be if they were required. Same with this one and with this one. And yes, it does generate a loss of spaces, but a loss of spaces for them
translates into a loss of green space for us. And a parking lot, if you think about like Disney parking lots and things like that that have no landscaping in them, they get pretty hot and they have urban heat island and they have, you know, no place to park your car under a tree if you're that kind of
person. You know, there's there's all of those elements, but it does make for a heat exchange difference. And Commissioner Austin is correct. They should be maintained. >> I would say that Sam's is the best example, but when we designed it, it was designed to be maintained,
>> right? But we we get we get >> we go down this path on every project and then the project's done and then no maintenance is done and and there's no followup and I see it throughout the city. There's more examples than what was
mentioned here. Um I I I just it just I get lost uh in this and they are adding more green space than what you're telling us, right? than what you're showing us. >> Aren't they adding more green space than
what you're showing us? >> No. What you see is their plan on the left. >> What about around the building? What about >> uh what I have are the plans that they've provided to us. So, they have additional renderings that they'll present to you this evening. If they >> between the parking and the the facade
of the building, there's landscaping there. >> No, >> no, >> not much. There's they they have requested to wave the foundation landscaping on the building as well. >> On the I4 side there is >> yes >> but not on the three sides that would be visible. Not much. That's what I
specifically would asked about. How wide are the um would these strips be? >> I mean to sustain a small you know crepe myrtle and some hedges and stuff. It could be as little as five or six feet. regardless of the width of it. The issue
is we I thought oh no is >> if I'm a customer there and I happen to go down the wrong aisle with my large cart with the TV in it >> and I have to go all the way back up that aisle to get to my correct lane because of that strip.
>> Uh I'm not going to be a happy customer. >> They can provide breaks. they can >> and you know me I am all about landscaping in green space. >> I want as much green space as I can >> providing the information to let you know what we are waving. >> I appreciate that.
>> I mean it's >> like I said staff supports the request. >> We just want to make sure that you know what we reviewed for when we looked at it to see what we are >> providing in deviation to allow the you know the project to
>> I appreciate you. I agree with Eileen though. I mean it is we are setting the standard. I don't want the city to get in our own way of stopping something that is is really amazing for a area that has been looking blighted for a long time. But when we first got the
mall it was wonderful and now we're looking at this parking lot desert. And so what I think we're trying to do is make sure that we have a standard. So 10, 20 years from now, we are not looking at something that we're like, God, that is such an eyesore because we
didn't set the standard in the beginning. But I don't want that to stop us from proceeding. But I do get where you're coming from. Well, where our city rules are coming from, I guess. >> Right. Well, the the the codes are set by the commission and then obviously
through, you know, work sessions and things with planning to decide what direction we want to go, but the co codes are set by the commission. So, we're just advising you as to what the codes are, what we've reviewed for, and what waiverss are being requested. >> So, that just brings me back to the
picture that you wanted to see earlier to, you know, give you another look at it before I go to the architecture. So the architecture >> I still have I have a couple questions talking what what was the actual number of spaces they were I know they said
they needed 850 or 825 but the actual number they drew was less than >> 830 something >> okay >> and then the five >> so I >> five spaces were 820 something
>> here so if you use the 164 585 that I pulled from their presentation It's 494 at 3 per thousand which is what's required when you have retail in a large mall. It's 658 if you round somewhere in the four
which is in the middle. Four per 4,000 is what we require for office but it's halfway between and it is somewhere where we land on the other larger stores. We get between four, four and a half when we do Walmart, Target, Sam's if you look at
their parking calculations. And then the five per thousand is the max out which puts them at 823. They're looking to get as close to 850 as they can. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. So the architecture um as you know this
commission established a architecture standards that included everything from you know material changes and elevation changes both horizontally and vertically and we as staff to try to achieve that um given the nature of the large box
store. Obviously a lot of those don't get met when you're talking about a big box warehouse store. Um, this is definitely the largest store we've built since we've had those architectural elevations, but we did go through and
just for the ability to show you some of the other ones versus, you know, what you see before you, we did look and we found, you know, a store in Claremont, a store in Daytona, a store in the Villages, each one with some material
changes, elevation altered, you know, insetss, um, some height changes on the top of the building. We do have some of those on here. For the majority of it though, it is a flat plane building. So the one on the left is the one they've provided
to us. It's the entry feature, I guess, from what we found online is, although not quite as ornate, somewhat similar to the one that's at Millennia. But the other walls on Millennia, [clears throat] the truck facing facade, this truck loading zone
on the the left, you can see their facade for their lesser facing side is equivalent to that which we're going to see from Town Center just based on general view. and they can discuss architecture further. I just bringing to your attention the
fact that it does not meet our architectural standards and if you wanted to add anything additional this is your opportunity to do so. Um so action on first reading the commission stated that the January 8th at the
January 8th 2026 the revised layout better reflects the applicant's development approach and accepted the requested parking deviations with the condition that increased spacing between landscape islands applies to phase one only and is justified by the applicant's
identified size constraint site constraints which would have been the power easements and some of the other elements that They said and they do have definite sight constraints and they did work with us for an extended period of time to try and make sure that the building was sighted in a way that um
you know maximizes the use of the site given the other constraints. So additional landscaping details were requested including foundation plannings buffers and screening exhibits. Increased wall sign area was acknowledged as preliminary for flexibility for future sign program but
not final approval. And then automotive related uses are limited in phase one. Future phases may require additional PD amendments addressing circulation, connectivity, landscaping, and architecture with each phase demonstrating adequate roadway and
utility capacity. And then the applicant must return a second reading with an updated master plan, enhanced landscaping details, and confirmation that all deviations remain limited to phase one. So the action the additional conditions we've stated as one, two and three based
on what was discussed and those are in your staff report and that concludes my presentation. >> So on that previous slide you talked about things applying only to phase one. >> Correct. So that's the area that's in
gray on the master plan. >> Okay. So >> because we are trying to appropriately limit things to phase one which means the other future development doesn't have to worry about what we're saying now for this phase. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> So the concerns of staff though as I believe the mayor was about to say is that some of the elevated redevelopment is not in that gray portion of what is being stated as phase one. Although the
PD master plan did include the elevate parcel number. So that can be included, but we need to define what you're declaring as phase one and the landscape islands, the one for 20 versus one per 10, the linear strips. All of those need
to be determined prior to adoption of the PD so staff is aware of where they're moving forward with. >> All right. >> Okay. Is applicant ready? Good evening, mayor and commissioners.
Rebecca Wilson, 215 North Yola uh Drive in Orlando, excuse [clears throat] me, here on behalf of the newish owner of the Simol Town Center Mall. And we're really excited. This is sort of the end
of our first step for redevelopment of the mall. We know that uh the community is excited about this and it is a significant improvement aesthetically and a huge improvement to the economic
contribution that the mall can make to to the to the city. Um I I want to go through just a a couple of things. As a reminder, we have a recommendation from planning and zoning in favor of the
request and the deviations we requested. And then at first reading, we had a lot of discussion um about the project and the particular deviations. We were moved forward at first reading. Um I don't necessarily agree that we were asked to
provide an updated master plan. We did provide uh the updates into the portal. Um, but what what I want to sort of remind everyone and maybe this answers some of the questions as to the limitation, but when you look in and
Eileen, if you all have my um presentation up, >> you know, we we we've shown a lot of different site plans. We're not getting a site plan approved tonight. What we've done is we have used those site plans to
inform ourselves as to what code deviations we would need. And we worked for months with your staff and they met with us in person many times. So that what you're seeing tonight was full of compromise all the way along where where
we are is where our partner Costco believes they need to be with number of parking spaces truly being a large driver but balancing that with improvements and enhancements we made to architecture um and to open space. And
I'll get through those, but just quickly what's actually being approved tonight. This is what gets approved tonight. And so you can see in the gray area, that is the phase one area. So Eileen, to your point, it does not cover all of Elevate.
We had to notice Elevate because a portion of it does include their property, but the deviations and the use that we are requesting tonight are limited to that area. And commissioner, you're completely accurate that as we
march north with redevelopment or maybe we go all the way north and march south, but as we come in with different pods of redevelopment, those two if they're requesting a deviation will need to come before you and justify those deviations.
And and while we're looking at this and talking about future redevelopment, I just have to disagree with staff. We cannot assume that people who come to the Costco are going to be able to park anywhere. Guys, we we want this to be a
pedestrianfriendly activated redevelopment. We're ripping out a lot of that parking and putting new buildings there. And we'll then have to show you how those buildings will park themselves. The worst thing we
could do at the beginning is underpark this thing and limit our ability to renovate the rest of us because we got Costco parkers in these other areas we want to renovate. I have never worked at a city where they wanted me to build
less parking for a big retail user like this. I think we should believe Costco when they say they need this parking because they're the ones that are paying to build it. And we did go through at the last hearing and and we have our full team back with us. We did go
through at the last hearing, Costco knows how many parking spaces they need because they build costs throughout, you know, the country and the state of Florida and we can go back through those if you need that justification, but that's really what's driving it. So, I
appreciate that staff snipped one of these. Again, you're not approving any of this, right? These are these are all different ideas and how we've tried to play around with how you could take this first important step with a Costco and
still make it work with a with a full redevelopment. But going back to sort of where where we left off two weeks ago, the these are our four different views. So our our south elevation, you can see
we we added foundation planting. The the east elevation is the one that is most difficult for us to include um foundation plantings because we have the um the tire area there and our main
entrance on the south. Staff asked us to add foundational plantings. We did. They also we were able to add foundation plantings on the west. Now one thing I want to point out about your code is it requires
it requires these foundation plantings on frontage. Technically our east side which is plan right and our south side which is plan down.
Those roads are private roads. So they're not even technically right of way, but they are in fairness viewed kind of as the public realm. And so while we may not have significant amount of foundational plantings, what we did
do is we included buffer plantings all the way around. We increased the buffer plantings as you can see in front of the fuel area. Now, the reason for those of you who weren't here last time, the reason we sort of have some of the
larger islands on the west is there is um we're we're dealing with some easements over there and we couldn't shift it. But I also think that this um plan is a really good um example of
maybe what you were stating, Commissioner Thomas, about the Sam's Club. So, the Sam's Club has one parking lot and it's every parking space right there in front of you as far as you can see. Right. What what we have done is we
have parking in the front on the diagonal because in a Costco you don't enter the front. You enter there on that corner and then we also have some of the parking on the side. So, so you're not at any place where you just have all of your parking in one particular area. So,
we do need these deviations, but the deviations don't mean that we aren't proposing any internal landscaping. We're just asking to have less of it in order that we can provide the needed
parking. So, you can see here um if you were on the ring road, as you look in, you would see the buffer plantings, then the island plantings, and then the buildings. Um, this is mayor just we we
honed in. I know we talked a lot last time about the the rear to elevate. That's what it would look like. So, while those may not be may not be significant plantings in the foundation between the parking lot and the
building, we have those. And so then we had the our architect have her renderer, you know, drop in what you would look like. So, so to the to the left, that is where you would see sort of the top of
the canopy of the fuel and then back behind that white car um or SUV is where you would see um the the Costco. So, >> anyway, we're just trying to give you an idea of where it's located and the
amount of of landscaping that we would have. certainly significant compared to what is there um today. I just wanted to um oh and commissioner to to answer your
question and to maybe uh correct a statement from staff. We are tearing down the Macy's which we talked about at the last meeting and then we go back about 40 feet from the Macy's. Um, and so then we're building a CMU wall with a
cool mural because that will be temporary as we then begin to to renovate the rest wonderful >> of of the mall. >> Okay. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. >> Um, so I am happy to answer any
questions that you all may have. We are just excited and we would like to request that on second reading that you um make a motion to support the um
applicants deviation request. And again, we've got our whole team here and happy to answer any more questions you have. >> Can you go back a couple of slides to the drawing? Uh maybe one after that, one after that. Maybe it was before that.
>> I I was sort of clicking all around. >> I know. I know. There was one with the northeast corner grayed out from the rest of it, which I think I know what it is, but not that one. Not that one. >> Corner. >> Uh, maybe.
No, I don't see it anymore. Disappeared. >> Wait, wait. >> Now you're seeing things. I think there was a section in there that was not covered by parking because it's part of the athletic apex. I believe it is.
So >> that's okay. >> Yeah. So So that is elevate. See that little dotted line there? That is their parcel. And so our phase one just goes a little bit into their parcel. >> Yeah. This was more on the the east
side. H I don't know. >> I don't know. Maybe I am seeing things. >> May maybe you're talking about how th this is >> that might have been it. That might and I think that's athletic apex. >> No, >> that's
>> No, that we're just keeping that as a little out parcel. >> Okay. >> Is that currently parking lot? Oh, >> that's what I was trying to figure out. >> I think it currently >> why we're not using that for parking would >> sort of be part of the See, it is it's
right it would be about right there or right there. >> The is that your just in case area because you don't know what you're going to do with that yet? >> No, I don't think it's just in case. I think it's being set up to be an out parcel. >> Okay.
>> For for new Okay. >> development. Yeah. Right. I'm just trying to figure out where else possibly we can put some parking. >> Did you? >> Come on up, Jim. >> Good evening. Uh Mike Gwyn, Art and Companies,
>> 3565 Pont Road, Atlanta, Georgia 303 30305. Uh I'm a very good developer and a horrible public speaker, but um to answer your question about the out parcel that will be a future business and it'll sit along the new spine road
we're creating there that serves not only Costco, the out park will elevate. We'll get a brand new entrance and everything to the north of there as we introduce a sense of scale back into the project. So that's why that's not parking today.
>> Okay. And while you're here, Mike, um, is the the fact that this is part of a mall makes things more complex for a Costco. >> Yes, it makes it for anything. I've walked it today. I had a little therapy
session afterwards. Um, I'm being flippant, but it does make it more complicated because you have to go through a lot of life, safety, structural, and things you guys can appreciate and staff can appreciate. Um that's why we're just going back and then working closer to the elevate folks think they're here figure out how that
condition looks and to your question commissioner about the the mural. It's a temporary but attractive. It'll be a mural and it'll be there for hopefully about a year or so. But we got you know we did purchase pennies. So it's just marching its way north as we planned. But this is the first and the biggest
domino. >> The biggest domino and one we look forward to. Um, I don't question the fact that you all have done a lot of research on what the parking spaces are that you need. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And I appreciate the idea of, you know,
all Commissioner Britain says this a lot and I agree with her. We all work for the citizens of Sanford and the citizens of Sanford, I know, are really looking forward to this and want that experience of having a Costco, being able to shop in there and not getting
frustrated in the parking lot after their shopping experience. So, at the same time, I appreciate our staff telling us what we need to do based on our plan and where we can make some adjustments to make this work. I'm 100% behind that
without setting expectations for the rest of the mall that are inappropriate. >> Understood. >> Okay. So, and this is what I asked about last time and I still don't understand what it looks like. This is landscaped. >> Yes.
>> Yes. I think some of the confusion is we'd had a renderer pulls together something quickly that the rendering [clears throat] didn't show it landscaped, but that is landscaped there. Yes. >> Okay. And is that one landscaped? >> It it is landscaped. And you can see running through the center is the little
walkway, little sidewalk. >> And then what about this one? >> Yes, landscaped with a sidewalk. >> Okay. So, [snorts] those were sort of the three I was focusing on making sure that had good landscaping because to me that's the focal point. >> Yes, sir. >> Coming in. All right, my other question.
So, Eileen, we'd have four rows of parking and then uh an um an island. But how does that work? If you have two, four, would it be here?
>> Well, if you start at the bottom where they have the island. So, count one, two, three, four, and it would be there. and then one >> two four and then one there. >> Right. >> Okay. So, I would like to know and I know that
this in an engineering plan so I can't get an answer to this >> but in my head it does it doesn't really matter to me if your landscape is broken up in these pieces or in one long strip because you can get the same total
amount of landscaping. What is your maybe you you're the one that I should ask this to in terms of square footage. How do these compare to what it would be if we did the um
>> Well, so let let me add a couple things. We we are increasing the the landscape and open space by over 20% of what's there now, right? And so we can that's
that's not really a question for Mike. It's a question for our engineer, but but to to begin answering it, if we could have fit the parking that we needed and met the landscape code, we would have been happy to remove this as a deviation. I mean, the problem is
every time we've tried to meet the the code, we have lost parking spaces to the point that it makes it not a feasible project. We again we've not asked to eliminate these but simply to to deviate
from the required amount. If if if you need to know I don't know if we've calculated how much square footage adding each one of these landscape islands takes. Is that what you're asking? Well, yeah, because and in my mind, you know, okay, so you know,
if you did the the islands like the code says to do, it'd be 400 square feet. Making up a number. It's probably way more than that. Um, how many square feet are these islands at the end? >> So, so let's So, let's just make up a
number. All right. So, it's 4,000. It's it's too many square feet for us to lose that many parking spaces. >> No, you're not understanding my question. Oh, >> nobody is >> okay. [laughter] >> I mean, if you're if you're asking me, you went through >> I'm trying to figure out how would the
square footage of landscaping under the code compared to the square footage of landscaping as you've drawn it. What is that that ratio mean? I >> I don't know the ratio. It would be more. And we we are already six spaces
under the Costco requirement. And so any additional landscaping continues to push us further under that requirement and it just becomes not a feasible project. >> How many fuel islands are there for? >> I mean I had all of these in front of me
before. Let's see. Jamie, >> come on down. >> For the record, John Paul Andrews, director of real estate development for Costco. Um so to answer your question about the fuel facility, uh it is four
islands and it is four dispensers on each island. So a total of 16 pumps, which is 32 fueling positions. That is pretty standard for us in Florida. >> Um other parts of the country were four islands and three deep, but Florida, we really put some gas out there.
>> Obviously, you know, I'm asking the question, I'm trying to help you help us figure out more space we could use for parking. So you need those four. >> Yes. and and I I was on the record I believe before the planning commission uh with some parking data where I had my team uh find out what our parking
volumes at East Orlando were and Altamonte. Um we have about 686 I believe it is at East Orlando and about 630 at Altamonte and our demand during the holiday season at uh East Orlando is 900 parks. So where are these people
parking? Out on streets and roads and it's just not a good thing. it's, you know, leads to concerns for the safety of our, uh, members and it becomes a nuisance to other neighboring businesses, um, to the city itself, quite frankly, if they're out on the road where they shouldn't be. Um, again,
we have over 900 worldwide, 600 in the United States. So, we have a pretty good record of tracking what, you know, what what they're going to do. We have our our brokers from the very beginning do a lot of demographic analysis. So they're already from the beginning projecting
what the volumes would be and what we should anticipate. And of course we have our own traffic engineer get involved and they do their own analysis. So we we put a lot of homework into this and um we just want to get it right the first time. I spent so I've been with Costco since 2004. In the beginning, I used to
be responsible for all the additions and remodels for existing stores. And a lot of my work was trying to figure out how to fix the stores that didn't have enough parking in the first place or to expand the fuel facility that didn't have enough pumps. So, the the stacking was horrendous. >> Okay. Appreciate.
>> So, this is all very carefully thought out and um and the landscaping has been a little bit of a challenge. I don't think it's been said tonight, but it was said before the commission. We were really kind of working with a unusually tight and restricted site here. Um it's tight. It's kind of got an odd shape
that makes it a little more challenging to lay out. And then you also have uh some easements um that were just mentioned, but there's also uh the the uh large transmission lines that run through this site as well. So that really kind of drove where we could and couldn't put our building and the fuel
facility and all of that. Um, and to to get more specific about this like continuous run of these landscape islands, um, if if we were to add one more, say on that east side there, um, another continuous run of landscaping in
there, you would essentially lose one whole run of parking, it would be like a hit of 30 stalls. And again, right now we're at 844 is what we're proposing. So, we're just still just a shy of the 850 that we'd like to get, but 30 30 stall hits pretty significant, especially with the the data and the
analysis that we're we're anticipating. >> Okay. So, I hear a lot of confidence there in the uh the data that you've been provided that you're aware of. Even though it might only be holidays, you're hitting those big numbers. You need to accommodate those big numbers. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you. Did we talk much about the uh the signage? Do we need to go through the signage anymore or is everybody else okay with that? >> Since you weren't here last week, so the comprehensive sign program, the way it's set up in our standard sign regulations,
allow staff to work with applicants for creative sign design or say a building like this that's extensively large and the standard signage in the allocations it's laid out wouldn't work. It allows for um staff to work with them for up to 600 square feet, which is double the
max, but they're needing more than that. So, the commission um approved the condition that we placed in there. They're currently asking for somewhere just over 900 square feet. So the commission allowed a max of a,000 square
feet so staff can work with them on a a signed package that would provide them the signage that Costco feels they need and then that would need to go to planning and zoning commission for approval per our code. >> Okay. >> So if you're okay with that, you know, I
mean at the the normal max on a regular building is 300. A comprehensive sign program allows you to double it which gives them 600, but staff can't go more than that. So, as part of this PD reszone, one of the things is allocating a set amount of signage that's been established at a thousand to cover the
nine something that they they feel they need. >> Okay. >> So, if you're okay with that, then that was what was approved on first reading. >> And the signage that you're requesting is a normal amount for a Costco. >> Actually, it's a little less. We would normally have about 1,200. U00.
>> So, what we're doing is it omitting a sign on the uh north side, which is the least visible side. So um so we are um giving up a little bit there. So the 990 that we're asking for would give us the other three sides and the canopy the the main entry.
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> No sir. >> Thank you all. I appreciate. >> All right. Thank you. Is this car? Anyone else from the audience wish to speak to this item? Okay. Sen, did you have anything else?
Then I'll close the public hearing. Rain commission for discussion or action. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Under discussion. Um when we get to the landscaping plan, can we work on elevated materials like
not crate myrtles >> which are dead most? Well, >> everything's dead right now. Mayor You know, I mean that I mean that's that's a way to to approach this. So, um >> that's a good idea.
>> Less less work on that in the landscaping plan to um to try to elevate what's going to be there. >> Provide for a different We can do that. Um >> we could get really creative and put some landscaping on the roof of the building. How about that?
>> Oh my god. Let's >> or cut out the middle to your building and put a little >> what you I mean you also have the authority to do what you've done in the past is request the landscape and come back to you but I don't know that you need that. >> No. >> So >> no.
>> Okay. So um but yeah we can work with the applicant and >> try to avoid the crepe murder. >> All right. And does this also address the architectural features or is that being I didn't see discussion with regard to that when we're preparing the final uh >> just a minute
>> documents we need right now. >> Right. Right now what I've heard from the commission is there's no objection to what's been presented. >> Right. >> I mean I think I took the motion as as presented. >> As is. >> Okay. >> Like last.
>> All right. All in favor? I >> any opposed unanimously. Thank y'all. >> Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] >> Hooray for Costco. >> Let's go shopping. >> That brings us to the appeal of the
Historic Preservation Board. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is recommending city commission overturn the historic preservation board's denial of the certificate of appropriateness request for the construction at 1010 Hickory
Avenue. Although the raised elevation does correspond with the approved plans of the three steps, it is raised and the historic preservation board has approved elevations with less than three steps and staff is available for any questions. >> Okay.
Okay, >> it ready. We will present. Hopefully >> this one has a little less complexity to it. Okay. So, before you tonight is an appeal of a historic preservation board action, which was a denial of a
certificate of appropriateness at 1010 Hickory Avenue. This is some standard project information and a location identifying where the property is. It's at the corner of Hickory. Well, it's one lot in from the corner of Hickory and 11th.
So, what's before you property overview is the appeal of a denial of a certificate of appropriateness for new construction at 1010 Hickory Avenue. Property owner being JRSK Holdings. Applicant being Jimmy Rampers and the tax parcel before you on the screen. So,
some background information. The new home that was constructed at 1010 Hickory is in the Georgetown Residential Historic District. It was not constructed with the raised elevation with three steps at the front door as shown on the original plans that were approved for the COA. The house was
constructed to include less than the three approved in the COA development order. The applicant is requesting approval for the home as built, which is raised, but did not have the three steps shown on the attached photograph. Modifications to the grading were made
to retain the large tree in the front yard and avoid draining toward the structure resulting in the modification. So, the background information continues. The raised elevation standard is meant to reflect the district's historic pattern of homes built on peers
and maintain the consistent window and door rhythm along the street. The Georgetown district's period of significance 1888 to 1969 does include some later minimal tradition minimal traditional and ranch homes built at or
near grade. The elevation at 1010 Hickory is raised though not exactly as shown on the approved plans as in the COA. So the HPV has previously approved similar elevations with fewer than three steps in both Georgetown and the Sanford
Residential Historic District. So, schedule S application, the new residential structure shall include a raised foundation to complement the character of the contributing structures in the district when appropriate to the style. So, the new construction complies
with schedule S and the previously approved COA plans except that the foundation was elevated just not to include three struts counter to the development order. So the raised elevation has been required in all new construction in the Georgetown and
Sanford residential historic district. So these were the plans that were approved as part of the COA. The front elevation [snorts] and then the right side elevation. You can see on the front elevation it's pictorial shows three
steps leading up to it. This was the home as it was under construction. And this is the home once complete. You can see the tree in the front and the elevation around it to preserve that tree. And then this is a little closer shot on
it, the unique ribbon driveway that's been provided, the step that exists in the front of the house. And then this is some of the measurements that were taken to show what the elevation actually is. There's a step at the doorstep as well
as a step leading to the porch area. So, you can see there are elevation changes, just not the three steps that were shown on the drawing specifically. So, the applicant um went back to get an after the fact Ca
and was denied. So, these are examples of construction in the Georgetown and Sanford residential historic districts. So, we tried to zoom in a little on the first couple to show you the porch areas. You can see on this one, it only has the one step. It's a little hard to
take pictures cuz once you're step into those porches, they get shadowed. So, you can see though that the elevation on these are no more than one or two steps. This one has the two on the left. The one on the right is hard to see, but
there is a step on that. These are larger structures. They are slightly elevated, but you know, the porch features give them that lifted look. This one clearly has three steps on the left. The one on the right just has that
elevated um front porch. The one on the left has the two steps. Um they're they appear to be less than the six inches, but like I said, taking pictures a little hard. It's like when you look at Google Street View, it's not always easy to tell what
the dimensions are. But as you can see, they vary throughout how high, how many steps, just that they're elevated and they meet that requirement. And then the the Historic Preservation Board has been buried in those just depending structure
to structure as long as it is elevated. This one was a recently completed. It was approved by HPB. It's at 718 East 7th Street. Even more recent, since the denial of the one that's being appealed today,
they approved a near same elevation for 904 Celery Avenue as the picture you see before you. Obviously, the one at 904 Celery is not constructed yet, but it was it meets almost the same elevation as the one you see before you, which
clearly doesn't have a three-step elevation. So, back to the the one in question. This is the completed construction and you can see that it is equally elevated as some of the other structures. So, the
recommendation, I don't understand why every time I do a presentation on the overhead, the titles get chopped into weird pieces, but staff recommends the city commission overturn the HPB's denial of the after the-fact certificate of appropriateness for 1010 Hickory Avenue based on the following. The
elevation is raised, although it does not meet that three-step height as originally approved. The HPB has previously approved similar elevations with fewer than three steps. The construction is otherwise consistent with the approved plans and schedule S
and the elevation does not detract from the historic character of the district. >> Thank you. >> Any questions for start? >> Can you bring up the picture again? >> This one. Yes.
So, I get the fact that already have some have been approved at different elevations. That makes perfect sense to me. Um, if I were buying this house and I saw that picture and the fact that the tree and the level
there is slightly raised compared to the steps walking to the house, I might be a little concerned about flooding, but that's just me. Um, it doesn't I don't know if that would be a reason
to say don't do this, but just visually it looks like if it were up to me, I'd rather have the house a little higher. >> But the the issue is not about flooding. It's about trying to keep up with the historic character of the other homes in
Georgetown, which has that basically raised because it's on bricks three step thing. Okay, I get it. Um, >> that's the only difference from this house to the all of the other houses is they all had nice level. >> And just to give some background, the
the basis for HPB denying it is that there was a development order that incorporated the plans as to how this property would be built and what it would look like. And those plans, which are incorporated into
the development order, included three steps. And so it's al that issue of the after fact of deviating from what was approved to be built. And I think staff is trying to find a meet in the middle a consensus to to move on >> and in which case it makes sense because
it is >> there are other examples >> where they have varied >> which I'm fine with. >> Yeah. >> It's not flat on grade. It's not lacking any elevation. It's just a different look or different elevation than the
original HPB CFA. And that is, you know, the basis for the original denial. But staff has since done some very significant reviews, as you can see, Julie pulled pictures from all over the place to determine that it is consistent with a lot of the other approvals. It
just varies house by house, elevation by elevation. >> And I do appreciate that they kept some of the trees because there were a lot of beautiful trees on that lot. Okay. Okay, thanks for letting me ask. >> Great. Okay, I request from uh Wallace Wilson, who I think is representing the
owner. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Um Timmy [clears throat] Rampers, the builder, been active in our community for quite some time and he's built several houses. He's not a largecale builder. He's a smallcale builder. He
builds for his relatives. He builds for himself. Builds for his friends. Builds a few for sale. He has always strictly tried to follow the rules. There was some confusion at the beginning of the permitting process about the stairs and
looking at what was going on in the neighborhood. He went with that look. So there's where the problem came in. But he has always rigorously followed the rules. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Right. I also have a request from Steven Snipes. >> Hi, Steven Snipes 440 South Summerland Avenue. Um, I'm in the packet about this because I spoke at the HPB meeting where this was denied. It's actually not the
only house that was wrong and denied because it was too low. So, it's this isn't a one-off. This is happening. And the problem here, I I agree with her. It's not about whether it's not high enough or low enough. It's that somebody's building something they
didn't get approved and then they're coming back and they're saying, "Oh, well, I'm sorry. You know, we don't want to be having people do whatever they want and then get denied and come back to you. You're going to be the arbiters of all this stuff if people don't follow
the rules. And there are a lot of people in this room who've been pressed with a lot of rules and regulations over time that would love to have had a, you know, give them a pass. So, I don't think you ought to be undermining your boards and
their decisions and permit people to just build what they want. If Costco just left out all that landscaping and came back and said, "Ah, sorry. We wanted more spaces." Are you going to like go back and hammer them? No, you're not. I don't. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Anyone else from the audience wish to speak to this item? >> Okay. Um question. If we uphold the denial, what is the resolution?
>> I don't think this can be remedied other than lifting the house. >> Okay. Because one of the comments was and maybe I want um I don't know if Mr. Wilson whether you know the answer to this or not. Go back to the that either
of those is fine. >> No, that's the one I want because it says that the number of steps was changed to save the tree. And it seems like you need another step
because of the tree. >> Unless you were grading. The idea was they were going to grade lower in front. If the tree came out, were they going to grow grade grade low enough to put another step or is the building actually lower than it was originally planned?
>> I think they mounted up dirt around the tree because wouldn't it either be to raise the house or lower the grade in front of the house and lose the tree, >> right? You still Yes. raise the the house elevation.
>> Okay. The difference of two steps would be a foot and three is 18 in. >> All right. And in cases like this at the day, it's going to be your your your job to determine whether I think
that's why staff has done an excellent job of just doing a survey of of what's out there to try and meet in the middle because this is what the op there is no alternative. There is no fix to this. Um, but it's important to do it on a
case-bycase analysis because there may be other cases that come before you where the deviation is so great that whatever the developer has done, if they've deviated from the development order, you have to decide whether that's their problem or not because they knew
what the deviation was and they knew what the the development order provided for. So, it doesn't mean that every time you're going to throw away the development order, but what I think staff is trying to do is say doing this consensus and this study, this is something where um they think they can
find a remedy as far as going with that one step because of what you see in the other neighborhoods. >> Are we able to go ahead and go with this and then from here on out? >> Well, it could still happen.
>> That's what Mr. Snip's point was. Yeah. I know. >> And that's why I'm saying do it on a case by case. For each case that comes before you, you're going to have to look at how far is the deviation and then
determine whether you want to uphold or deny whatever HPB's decision is. But the fact that there is no remedy if the developer has deviated from the development order is not necessarily something you carry on your shoulders.
So in this particular instance, as she said, case by case, in this particular instance, you can see from the measurements, they did provide for a 12 in elevation, which is the equivalent of two steps versus it's not flaton grade. >> They didn't ignore it entirely. There is
also the lift into the threshold, which is another four to five inches. So it really depends on whether or not this is deemed to be consistent with a the development order which required three steps or 18 in as well as the
consistency with the historic district which it does provide for an elevated foundation of 12 in which is equivalent to two steps which is consistent with many of the other approvals in the district both districts. >> Right. Okay. Okay. Um just be sure no one else would
wishes to speak then I'll close the public hearing bring commission for discussion or action >> you know I mean I hate to go against HPB I really do um but because we are really between a rock
and a hard place um here you've you've got we're going to remove blight we're also increasing property value there's so many positives to this but then also there is that this is dead wrong. Um,
again, as attorney Green um pointed out, there were plans that were submitted. Um, and then that first picture looks like a poor attempt of trying to create cuz how is that even steps? Um,
but and what what what are we going to do at this point? say no and then now have the place abandoned cuz who's going to raise this entire house? Do we have any idea of the other
examples you've given whether or not they were approved based on the plans that were submitted correctly or were there mistakes made in those cases as well? I think for the most part they were built as approved.
Um, schedule S has raised elevation and in many reviews they didn't specify what that level of raising is and they have become more specific about that the three steps more recently
about that. >> I you know where I'm coming from here is is we don't want to continue to allow mistakes to just go >> right. >> We don't want to establish a precedent there. So, if all of the others were submitted the orders, met the requirements, good to go,
and we're at a point now where this maybe is an anomaly that we can say, no more of this. You all did your research and you were able to find other houses that match that this. Did you all also do do the
research to see if he has complied with other homes that he has built? They're not in the district. So, we just have >> I point out it is possible to raise a home. This is something a standard procedure that people are doing for sea
level rise, but of course it's expensive, but that really is the only remedy that I know for this. >> Then y'all say the 12 in is accumulated in two steps. >> All right.
So they raise the home where are they going to get the steps >> out of step. Okay. >> Well, the other option would be cut down the tree, grade the yard down, and >> take it low enough that you could put another step. >> That's what I was thinking. Uh we will
not get rid of trees. >> Big tree mitigation. Move the tree to the backyard. >> All right. So, somebody ready to make a motion? >> Move to approve.
>> Move to approve the overturning of the denial. >> Yes. >> Okay. Is there a second? I'll second for discussion. >> All right. Motion to second. Further discussion.
What I'm thinking in my head is if they had presented this at the initial um HPB meeting, would two steps have been approved? And she said they can't look because it's not in the district. But if this is something this guy was ordinary doing and just getting over all this time,
this is just this one time. Don't cost a lot to try to raise the house and everything. So >> other houses very similar to this. So >> and this is also in the Georgetown area which is new to the the historic preservation rules. It's not like it's
across Sanford Avenue. I personally cannot, well, I'm not saying I cannot, but there is too much in my district for me to go against our historic preservation board because of all of the strict rules that we must follow to keep
our historic character. So, >> any further discussion? I am nervous about setting a precedent here. >> Well, but uh attorney Green did state that it's take it a case by case basis. It's not necessarily set a precedent
that we're held by law to follow. >> For each instance that comes before mayor and the commissioners, you just want to justify what the deviation is based on. staff has brought that to you in doing comparators as to other
properties to provide some basis upon which for you to do so. And again, and also I just want to add these were the developer plans. So these were not city imposed plans. The developer came to the city and said this is what I'm going to
build. These are the three steps that I'm going to include. A development order was approved based upon what the developer said that the developer would do and then once the COA was to be issued, it was determined the developer
deviated from the plans. Again, >> thanks. That's a good reminder. >> Right. staff is trying to provide some leeway by saying even though there is a clear deviation from the development order and the developer's plans that it
is not counterintuitive to what has been built in other areas to try and create a pathway should the board decide that's what you want to do. Mayor and commissioners, any further discussion? Okay. All in favor?
>> I >> I >> I. All opposed. >> I I >> Okay. Passes three to two. >> That brings us to citizens comments. I have request from less below >> Bo.
>> Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. Uh >> I've been at Sanford uh 45 years now. Moved here 1980. And uh I live at 2006 South Holly Avenue. If you ever been down Holly Avenue, it goes towards the middle
school and sometimes 300 cars go down there every day at one time. Just rush them down there. And the speed bump they put there is really an acceleration speed bump because they built it wrong start with. But I'm not here to talk about that. Um Oh, could you put the
picture up that I gave you all as far as that? >> Is that >> with the house? The one at the house? >> Yeah. Start with the one for the overhead. >> No, the other one. That one. Yeah. >> Yep. We're good. >> Anyway, >> is it enough?
>> Uh, the house is 50 years old. It's got single paint windows. >> I put that up there when Charlie came through in 2004. So, it's been here like 20 years. It's been painted. It's in good shape. And they're saying I had to take that down for some reason. But the
reason I want to keep it is the fact that it's uh it helps with the noise. Uh helps with the air conditioning and the and the heating as far as that goes. Like I said, uh so much cars so much noise goes down the street sometimes
middle of the night. For example, I'll be standing in the kitchen which is on the back side of the house doing dishes and some car will go down there middle of night with their radio blaring and I can hear him in my kitchen. Oops, sorry. and it would shake my whole kitchen window. That's how bad noise is
sometimes. So, my wife and I sleep up there and uh see. So, um it's in it's the middle of uh middle of night. They they make things.
So, anyway, um refill it should be grandpa as far as having it on the windows. It's under the two front windows. And like I said, I was I was 54 year when I did that. So now actually I was 57. So now I'm 77. I'm in pretty good shape, but I can't really get up
there and take that stuff down. So uh uh we'd like to see if we could have a grandfather in as far as being on the windows. Like I said, it helps with noise. It helps with u air conditioned heating. And uh if you ever been on Holly Avenue, uh I
have a big oak tree in front that I transplanted from the backyard when it's that big. Now it's 40 feet tall. So I have a BM in front with bermilad. So anyway, I'd like to do landscaping. That's one of my projects I did. So um I'm asking the city to let us keep the
the boards on front windows and uh I like to know if there's anything I should ask answer for y'all. Is there a way to make it look a little bit more aesthetically pleasing as if it's a faux window? Because I can understand it looking boarded up. Um,
and it also it stands out because of the color. Um, >> I could paint it the same color as the house if I have to. That's no problem. >> Okay. I know that they have like the faux um window paneling um that can be done um
to almost make it look like, you know, a nice gable. um on the front of the house, but I do understand it being boarded up and then having other residents do the same could, you know, potentially cause a problem. Um
the other thing with the with the window itself is um um let's see, it it helps a lot. See, I'm retired. My wife's retired. She's a school bus driver for 14 years. Uhhuh. >> I've been retired since 2010.
And u I I thought about trying to get up there with scaffling, but I can't do that. And then u as far as I checked into replacing the windows from like Anderson, they're like $14,000 just for five windows in the house. I can't afford $14,000
as far as changing windows out. But as far as the window itself, it it's solid. Um the board is is good and uh it's it's served its purpose all the years. So, >> this appears to be a code enforcement
matter. Thank you. >> I'm sorry. And I'm wondering if this is something we can actually address in this [clears throat] meeting or if something needs to come >> back to us. >> I'm sorry, ma'am. What was the question? I'm not sure if this is something that we can
>> address at this time. >> No. And that's why I it it sounds as though it's a code enforcement issue. Um Mr. Raundo, um I would prefer if if you you meet with this homeowner and then just get back to me and I can u give
information to the board at the next meeting as to what's transpired and give you an update. But it's not appropriate for the board to take action from the deis on this. >> My understanding is there is code enforcement action on it. Now, >> we received the complaint uh October
31st of last year. It's been an active investigation since then. Uh multiple facets to it. >> I talked to Stephen a couple times. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And we appreciate the progress that you had made uh taking the cardboard down and those things, >> but there's still outstanding violations. The case continues. It
probably will be before the magistrate in the March hearing. >> Okay. So I wouldn't take any problem we can't >> and let Mr. Raundo continue to have those conversations. If it goes before the special magistrate, the special
magistrate will adjudicate the case. There of course is lean amnesty process. And so by then by the time it gets towards the the special magistrate hearing there may be some discussions where it may be resolved. And I would just
question, is there something you can do from the inside that would have the same effect? >> I was thinking the same thing. >> Like I said, they're single pane windows and and there's 50. >> Okay. >> House built in 1974, so they're over 50 years old. >> All right.
>> And I just can't afford $14,000 for like good windows, stuff like that. So fixed income and all that stuff. So >> well, that estimate is way too low. >> Yeah. Okay. So this will have to stay with code enforcement at this time. >> Okay. So they'll get back with me on
this. What's going on? You will >> I also recommend, sir, that you you speak with code enforcement. So it's a two-way conversation. He's he's right behind you, sir. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> And I have a request from Chase.
>> I put in a >> Oh, how we doing? Good. Chase 4, 1219 South Park Avenue. At least that's where I live nowadays. Uh sitting up here watching the Costco presentation. Uh coming up on a year. I'm trying to get a
blighted property uh up the code, I guess we're calling that. Um I do have a question at the end of this, but I'm going to ramble for a little bit. watching our harping of landscaping down
to some minutia. They've decreased parking, they increase green space, and now we're saying that because there's other parking, they can use that parking that could go away as well. Um, it's it's just hard to watch this again
and again, and we're sitting here a year. The amount of work I just had quoted out that I'm waiting on for a year, three weeks, still not approved, still working through it to open a blighted building over landscaping that we were already doing anyway. And
it's good to know that a DO can be not really adhered to and seen it change. Uh there is case by case. We talked earlier, you said we don't do case by case when uh Sheena brought up trying to help. Um, so it's good to know we can deviate on our own and come back to this
board for a little bit of leniency. But my one question I want to ask right now is your utility building that you guys just put in chain link fence. Not a single tree. When are you guys going to put a tree in? I mean, you guys are beating us up on it every day. Every
blighted property. Is Is there a plan? Oh, we're going to get rid of the Are we going to add like those little parking cube aisles and 40 square feet of trees that aren't crate murdles on that property or is it just us?
>> This is the same building I brought up at last meeting. >> You guys tore it down, started over, so you had plenty of space and time and energy to plan that out. Not a single not a single plant. You took trees out. Didn't even save anything. But we have
to come up here and fight for our lives for a year and watch you guys skate around it. >> So is there no plan? Is that what you're saying? >> We I was going to ask about it tonight. >> You going to ask about it tonight? All right. Thank you. Glad. >> So what are you What are you going to
ask? >> I was going to point out that you know you brought up that building >> and I drove by it and noticed what you were talking about and what are you going to do about it? But I'll bring that up. Well, I would like to say since we're discussing it at this moment, we can discuss it later.
Uh I was disturbed to find out it that building and that that redo did not even go through the process that our residents and our business owners have to go through. It was built and done without going through
the process. Um and and that is that may be that may be the way business is done elsewhere. That's not the way I want business done in Sanford, but we can talk about it later. >> Yeah, let's talk about that me which is only one item away.
>> Um anyone else from the audience wish to speak to the commission. Okay. Then we'll go to the sub preliminary subdivision plan >> and mayor at some point mayor at some point we'll uh have to have a motion with regard to the continuence for the
14 dioxane matter. >> Okay. >> And so I just want to make sure that >> Mr. The mayor, members of the commission, a major subdivision plan was received by the planning staff to establish a self- storage facility and three commercial outpost partials in the
plan development zone district for the address of 3922 East Lake Mary Boulevard. And it is staff's recommendation that it be approved. >> Move to approve. >> Wait, it's public hearing. >> Oh, no, it's not public hearing. >> I have nothing to disclose. Great. So,
do we have a motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? All in favor? >> Any opposed? Press nicely. City attorney comments. >> Uh, let's address the the I4 dioxay
matter first. Commissioner Britain, I know that you you walked in. So, trial is currently set for that matter in December of this year. The defendants have asked for a continuence for 6 months of that trial period. The attorneys representing the city are
agreeable to a joint motion for 3 to four months. Um, which would put us around March or so. Um, based upon my history as a litigator, when you have trial set in December, especially anytime around Christmas, it's going to be get pushed out anyway. So doing the 3
to four month I don't see that in any way being prejuditial or harmful with regard to the litigation. Um and so on that basis I recommended that uh we approve this our our attorneys moving forward with the continuence not to
exceed the four months but not the six months that were requested by the defendants. So may commission we just need to vote of the commission for consensus to that. >> We have a motion to approve that. Make a
motion to approve a fourmon I'm sorry delay >> extension extension >> fourmon extension in the trial for the 14 di any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Anything
else? Uh also uh I negotiated uh with regard to rich related to damages uh succumbed by the city as a result of the evacuation. That check was received today and it is in finance's hands. So that matter is concluded. >> Good.
>> Mr. Mayor, one one quick question. Um we you and I both received a letter from Victoria Huggin about reading something in >> Yeah, I actually had it up on my screen. Do you want to read it? I just wanted to know if >> Thanks for reminding me >> if we passed it in citizens participation or what?
>> Yeah, >> you want me to go ahead? >> I got it. >> Okay. >> Um yeah, I I apologize. This was part of citizen um participation. This is from Victoria Huggins um who would not be able to be here today night and wanted
this read. For years, I've invited city leadership and including the chief of police, the mayor, and this commission to ride with me and see firsthand the safety concerns in our golf cart zone. Commissioner Britain and mayor have participated, but much work remains. The current golf cart map is unreadable and
inadequate. A dedicated mobile app with interactive GPS like those used in communities such as the villages would solve common problems. real-time navigation, updated alerts for hazards and closures, legal path mapping, and integration of local points of interest.
The golf course zone itself needs updating, correction, and expansion with safety as the top priority. We also request that the city correct relevant organ ordinances and require all golf carts to carry insurance, ensuring that they are protected while sharing the road with vehicles, bicycles, children,
and tourists. Sanford's golf cart community is thriving and contributes positively to our local culture and economy. We need to the city's active support starting with a clear usable map, an updated zone, and reinstated insurance requirements.
>> Okay. And just so you know, um I the attorney mentioned this to me um between meetings and we're going to set up um a meeting with her and the police chief and I and then bring um stuff to the commission. >> Okay.
>> All right. Thank you for reminding me of that, Commissioner Britain. >> And I'm getting my ride on Friday >> tour. >> City clerk to report. Nothing to report tonight. >> City manager. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission. I would like to report that
this afternoon the city attorney, the chief of police and I met regarding golf courts. Uh, more will be coming on that. One thing I particularly want to say is that we are looking at having online payments and chief is looking into online payments so people can sign up
and at least pay for their card online. >> Okay. >> Beautiful. >> Good news. >> Anything else? >> No. >> All right. Um, since we already started the conversation, let's go ahead and jump to the landscaping at the utility building. And I was going to
um question, you know, it's our building and it doesn't look good. So, what can we do about landscaping the utility building there on French Avenue? >> Are we going to find ourselves? >> Cuz we dead wrong. Mr. Mayor, members
commission, I will certainly get with the director and see what remedies are possible. >> I mean, it's it should be a fairly easy fix to make it look better. >> Okay. >> Um and actually the um the Exora Garden Club before the
construction started had offered to try to help out there. Um so I don't know if they would still be able to do that or not. But then on to, you know, we've had this issue with things not getting to HPB that the city was doing. And I've
always been adamant that even though we don't have to have HPB's approval, it should go to HPB when we're doing something. And now this building didn't go through our planning process. >> That's what that's what I was informed of.
>> Okay. Our our buildings should go through our planning process. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Anything else on that? No. Okay.
And then Commissioner Ren. >> Um, so I hate to be bringing this up at a work s I mean as a seven o'clock um meeting, general meeting, but we didn't have any time at the work session. I spoke to Mr. grown apart about every
year um we if we need it we get our city shirts that have our logos on them. Um I've been on a whole health kick and I've lost some weight and so my shirts are too big. He told me that I needed to bring it before the commission.
In fairness, what was the discussion is the mayor had it at commission meeting said if the commissioners want to spend money from a commission fund, they should bring it to the commission. >> Well, that's never come out of our funds before. It does.
We just never pay attention. >> It's crazy that we have to talk about it at a 7 o'clock public meeting just for >> I think really in terms of the transparency. Yeah, but I mean it's we're representing the city. I've lost some weight. I just
need to replace some shirts. >> All right. Geez. >> All right. The question was who's controlling the commission funds? And the mayor said that it should be the commission. >> Okay. >> So, expenditures from that fund should be approved by the commission.
>> And we have one total budget for the commission for that purpose. Right. >> Or we each get a fifth of whatever's there. >> Yeah. neighborhood. >> Oh, >> so do I need to ask this city commission permission to purchase two new shirts? >> You I I don't have a problem with you personating two new shirts.
>> Okay. >> All right. Um the presentation tonight was absolutely beautiful. Um, mayor, your um, apology on behalf of the city of Sanford was very heartfelt and warming to all of us
that heard it and to the the the community for for those who had a um, um, some real uh, history with that. And um in your speaking you said we may not know what Goldsboro would would or could
have been if the city had not annexed in Goldsboro, but as of February 9th, what we do know is that there are half a million people in Simino County. And in Simino County, there are only two African-American
elected officials that are nonjudiciary, meaning that are not judges. Those two African-Americans both came from Goldsboro. I grew up in Midway. However, my parents brought me home to Bungalow. Commissioner Wiggins was born in Goldsboro and those two
African-Americans sit right here in the city of Samberg. So, the Goldsboro community has something to be very proud of because there is no other African-Americans in all of all of Simino County and Goldsboro's pride sit right here at the DAS. So that is
something that should be stated and that concludes the district one report. >> Thank you, Commissioner Wiggins. >> Uh I want to commend you on championing it. U and uh as she stated on what you
said tonight, a lot of people uh probably didn't catch it. You could have easily brushed under the rug what you said your grandfather, great-grandfather did, bro. So I want to commend you on that because you didn't have to say that. >> Uh surely as I stated earlier outside in
the world we live in today and the all the racism that we deal with u it is so rewarding to have so many that do come together. Like I told those 300 ladies that spent tons of hours putting that together, what a blessing it was. And
believe me you, all you guys that came and supported them and they saw it, they it was heartfelt. >> And so I want to again thank you for that and all that supported it. Uh now I need to make sure that I can go ahead and I want to um take $1,000 out of my
15,000 that I have and I want to uh [laughter] unlimited funds. put it. I want to uh donate uh donate a thousand to uh ladies 327 >> for >> for discretionary. Well, use my discretionary fund for
>> Yeah. What are they using? >> What is it for? >> Uh they're going to use the >> No, no, no, no. >> Public purpose. >> Yeah. But I also want to know what they're using it for. >> For public purpose, but they're going to use it also. They're going to uh uh help out with my event. At the end of the
month, I'll be having my fourth annual community day >> and so we I'll be renting some things from them that they come out and give services to. So, um I told her that I'll go ahead and give her some funds to do it.
>> All right. Let me just the motion has to just so that I don't want you to just say public purpose without saying what the public purpose is because that phrase in and of itself. So make sure you're describing what
exactly is being done by those community education whatever to support that it is a public purpose as just as part of your your motion. >> Okay. >> Okay. I need that also for community uh the community event for um education as
well as for my community event. >> Let's go ahead. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? >> Thank you. >> Nly. That's it, sir. Mr. Austin, >> um I wanted to uh ask
um Mr. Bonapart. I I believe um I don't believe I can make a donation to this cause because I'm not sure what uh the the the setup is, but there's a gentleman by the
name of Greg Runge who started a great uh effort uh here in the downtown >> for uh helping uh our unhoused Um but also uh he started a group called
ground score crew and several of our businesses have signed up monthly support. I myself have signed up monthly support. Um and I'm curious how how the city could be involved or even how we
could make uh I myself would like to make a donation out of my commission funds for a public purpose. uh for for what he's doing to help our unhoused. Uh but I I would like perhaps Craig on your behalf and our behalf to to go
meet with him, see if there is an avenue for the city to get involved and help in this effort. Um you know, we have the rescue outreach mission on Goldsboro Boulevard, historic Goldsboro Boulevard, but uh a lot of
times >> the gaps. >> Yeah. A lot of times our unhoused don't make it that far for lack of transportation >> or or maybe even physical ability at this point in their lives. >> Um so he's filling the gaps here downtown
uh for helping helping these individuals and maybe even getting them reestablished in some cases. Um, you know, we we can argue politics, we can argue a lot of things, but we do seem to see more and more
uh people falling in in in the cracks uh not only here in the city, but across the country. So, I would like to see if if the city can can assist in his efforts in some way. um if not the city
then perhaps uh from our own uh funds uh that we have uh to help but I but I don't know what his organ organization setup is and if that is something we can give to I don't know those questions. >> What was the name of the program?
>> Ground score crew. >> Can I quarterback that a little bit Patrick? Yes. I remember the city of Sanford used to have the homeless task force and um Nikki's now in that position as the director, but when Andrew Thomas was here, they had partnerships with Grace and Grits and
some other organizations that would feed um you know some of um those that were in need. So, I don't know if that is something that falls under possibly CDBG as well to maybe provide assistance with
that or at least to to reach out um to Greg um just to find out how there might be some connections with the county as well. >> Commissioner, if you could provide me with his contact information so I can get information about him and the
organization. >> I'm sorry. Can you provide me his contact information so I can get in touch with him or learn about his organization? >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? >> And it's called Brown >> Brown School.
>> Um I know he made a presentation to the uh food and beverage or they what do they call it? Commissioner President >> Fava >> Fava >> Fava. I know he made a presentation to them and several of our businesses signed up to support. Uh, like I said, I
I went online and and signed up and and did my $30 monthly um support. >> I contributed as well. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. He's very connected with the businesses. Does a lot. >> Anything else? Nothing else to discuss
publicly at this time. There is there is some some stuff that I'm a little unhappy with, but but I'm going to deal with that internally and see where that leads us. >> Okay. Commissioner Thomas. Uh, first um,
condolences to Commissioner Austin on the loss of his in-law. Thank >> appreciate you being here in spite of that. Um, we, Speaking of public purpose funds, we talked about while I was out uh, contributing to my predecessor's uh,
involvement in the catcho and she was right. I do want to commit $500 from my discretionary funds. >> Oh, we gave we gave a million. >> A million. Well, I'm broke now. >> You're indebted forever. >> Does that go for my next 30 years on that's more than more than my term, so I
can't afford it. Um, yes, I would very much like to do that for the public purpose of bringing business, bringing people into the community and spending money here while they attend our great cat show. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Questionly.
>> Much appreciated. Uh, positive stuff that's been happening in my district lately. Ford's Garage opened on the 23rd. Uh that was wonderful. I see Commissioner Britain's also been there as well and um they had a great opening and I think we'll have a lot of
people going to visit there for their great burgers. Uh I I should recommend yours, right? >> The Mine's the Model A, yours was >> the steak. >> The steak. Okay, good stuff. Boot Barn Boot Barn also opened and it's right next to my Petco place over in WP Ball.
So, if you love the smell of leather, go into this place. They have more boots than I've ever seen in my entire life, and it's a wonderful smell and good product. Um, MLK activities, we probably all talked about when I was out, so obviously the wonderful job we always
did with that. The banquet was fabulous. The march was fabulous. Um, really good activities there, and I always appreciate what we do for Dr. King. Um, I also got to judge the inaugural West Enders dog show. So, think of the Westminster dog show right in downtown
Sanford. We had a similar version to that. And I think I've uh had an easier time making some decisions here versus having to judge the dogs. That was a it was a challenge, but good times. So, those are the positives. Um, I still would love to see us do
something with this chamber. Every time I go to a counto meeting and I'm in other city chambers and looking at what they have and I come back here and think, can we at least paint these walls? We know we talked about that, but
please can we find some money somewhere? Is there any leftover from building the second floor or >> I'll volunteer to paint it myself? >> I will, too. All right. So, Commissioner Britain and I are going to repaint the chambers. >> They were just repaint. Yeah, but it
looks like pink. >> Yeah, I'm not sure you picked the color. >> Yes. Can we just put a different color in here, please? >> You better run it by the art commission. >> I'll run it by the art. >> They want it painted, too. >> I know they do. We better make sure it's the right color.
>> So, what do we need to do to make that happen? >> Go to the art commission, get a color. >> Okay. >> Then go to Mr. Bonapart and ask him where he can find some paint money. >> We'll make that happen. >> And then grab your overalls and come on down. >> Okay, you got it. I've painted before. or I'll do it again. Uh the League of
Cities, of course, we went to legislative action days. Did we talk about that enough last meeting? We probably did. Things are moving as we would expect. There is still a lot of We're doing as much as we can to oppose Senate Bill 180, which has to do with
making Een's job more difficult, putting just a stop on changing our comprehensive plan. uh you're aware of this as well. It looks like the Senate bill might actually that's trying to amend that. There are two pieces of it
that we hope will get amended and make that less painful. So fingers crossed on that. Uh a lot of discussion about property taxes. If you have any knowledge on property taxes or you need more information, please go to the Florida League of Cities website. They
have a whole toolkit there on what you need to know about property tax, what we cover through that money that comes into us and how we can take care of the community when it comes to police, fire, parks, and recreation. If we try to keep doing the best we can, which sometimes
isn't enough, we cannot do that with property tax. So, if you have the inclination >> without it, yeah, call your reps, call your senators, please help us tell them how important that is. Um, this is Narcan and thanks to the county and
their health department, we have a box here in the city building in city hall somewhere out in the lobby where this is available. So, tell all your friends, tell anybody you need to know that this is out there. Uh, there are various places throughout the county where
that's available and it's really going to be a big help with opioid addiction. By the way, our we have one of the few peoples that are a member of a of a commission in the country that are representing this whole process on how to deal with opioid addiction and that's
Lee Constantine. So, he's doing a great job representing all of Seino County and um I'm pleased to see that they are trying to put this out there for people to have it, tell people if they need it to come and get some. I think that is
the extent of my discussion. Um the other thing um on the landscaping that was brought up this evening was um focusing on maintenance um and making sure that that when we
require m landscaping it's kept up as Rondo. So um and then with that I think we are ajourned. We are journal.