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Okay, we will go ahead and call to order the meeting the Sanford City Commission for Binding. September 8th, 2025. Get everyone's attention, please. [Music] Yeah, but can't hear you. Okay. Now, can you hear me? Can you turn
me up or I'll just talk really loud? Sounds good. Okay. So, we'll call to order me a Sanford City Commission for Monday, September 8th, 2025. We are going to be having a capacity issue here. Um, and
our police chief and fire chief will be um addressing that. We may have to have some people wait outside. I apologize for that. Um, and if you had wanted to fill out one of the yellow forms, um, we ran out of those, but you will have an opportunity to speak even if you did not
fill one of those out. We'll start with our legislative prayer led by ministers, um, Sarana Lawrence of the St. Paul Missionary Baptist Church, followed by the pledge of allegiance. Um, if you can, please rise. Let us bow our heads. Father God, in the
name of Jesus, I thank you right now, Lord God, for we have come to reason together. As we thank you, Lord God, for every issue that has been addressed already, Lord God, and resolved. We thank you right now, Lord God, for those that will arise. We thank you right now,
Lord God, for peace being still. We thank you right now Lord God for everything that we need to resolve these problems be met whether it be money medical or man. And Lord God I lift up each citizen here each resident. I lift
up the city officials. Oh God I lift up law enforcement and Lord even our city manager in his moments of bereiement. It's in Jesus matchless name that I pray. Amen. Amen. I pledge al to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. Right. We have with us tonight um Senator Jason Broer who's going to bring
us a quick update on state legislation. Senator Broer, thank you for joining us again. Thank you very much, Mayor. And I know nobody's here to hear me, so we're going to do it real quick. All right. This year, we had 115 billion dollar budget, which was 2 and a half billion less than previous years. And so, even
though uh we know it's tight, we have managed to um have a smaller budget. We were in extended session this year, but it's for a reason that I don't think any other state has ever had. We were arguing over how to give money back to taxpayers. So, here's what we settled on. We gave we completely eliminated the
business rent sales uh lease tax which we were the only state in America that had it. Uh it had been 7% and every year for the last 10 15 years we've cut it a quarter point every year. This year we were able to pay off the last 2% making us the 50th and final state to not have a business rent tax. That's going to be
great news to everybody that owns a business as well as all those that uh go to our small business owners who rent. We also know that how popular some of our um sales tax holidays are. And so over the years we've had a number of different ones. We've had back to school, we've had tolls, we've had gas,
we've had hurricane preparedness, but it's sometimes hard to know when those are because we tend to do them two weeks before school starts. Well, school starts on a different date every year. And sometimes it's Sunday is two weeks out and you don't know whether it's open. And so this year we finally put it in statute so we're not guessing anymore. The entire month of August will
be back to school sales tax holiday from here on out. So you don't have to worry about anything. Back to school is all of August. Similarly, we have so many folks that are moving to the state and want to prepare for hurricanes that a hurricane preparedness tax holiday was always two weeks before the start of hurricane season. Well, first you got to figure out hurricane season starts June 1st and
if you go two weeks back of that may have 30 or 31 days and how many forget it. So this year we said we're just going to make the hurricane sales tax holiday year round. So no matter when somebody moves here or when a storm is coming, if you've missed the window, it no longer matters. If you see something happen in the Atlantic a month from now
and you forgot batteries or a flashlight or whatever, it's all going to be taxfree from here on out. Uh we also decided that starting today through the end of the year, we have a hunting, fishing, and camping sales tax holiday. So for tents and ammunition and everything to go enjoy the outdoors, we
will be doing that as well for the rest of the year. Lastly, we decided to take the money and start paying down some of our debt. We have very little debt in the state of Florida, but it's only on um assetbacked projects like roads and and schools and things like that. Um we are on track now with 250 million extra
going a year going to our debt um payoff to be one of the first states, if not the first state in American history to be debtree in the next 10 to 15 years if we keep up the pace. And so, uh, very fiscally conservative, uh, uh, uh, legislative session that focused entirely on resident tax relief, sales
tax, and business rent tax and all that kind of stuff. By silo, I'll go through what some of the budget items were that we were able to bring back to the community, the things we worked on together, either through the county or the city. Um, we were able to get another 400,000 this year for juvenile drug court. That's not always a guaranteed thing. Uh, that helps
expedite those cases here. Um, we got money for stop now plan for dy served youth. So, for those that are in juvenile justice and Medicaid, um we got revert and reappropriate the Seminal County Sheriff's Office for mobile command equipment. And so, we had $500,000 for that and it didn't get
fully spent last year, so we were able to maintain it and retain it. Um we got $75,000 for Seminal County uh Foundation for uh public schools, which was great. Uh we also got $10 million for Seminal State College for the nursing building. And we all know healthcare has been a
big crunch and seminal state's been providing a lot of that and they needed a new building and we were able to do that. Um we got uh money almost half a million dollars for inspire for o operation giving real opportunities for those of us uh that have folks that are adult disabled. Uh this is a great
program. Mental health association of central Florida mental health clinic for the uninsured. We got $125,000. Um hope and healing recovery center for opioid addiction. We got a million dollars. uh empower substance abuse mistreatment $500,000 and for here locally we got $2 and a half million
dollars for the Sanford nutrient reduction at Lake Chess and Lake Monroe. And so as we continue to look at this being right in between the two biggest water bodies in this section of the St. John's uh a giant help from the state for nutrient reduction. We also got um $1 million for Sanford aircraft rescue
firefighting vehicle replacement out at the airport and so they'll be able to get a new uh truck there. And then $15 million for Lake Jessup restoration water quality management. We have for years been trying to restore Lake Jessup. Uh I can give a two-hour dissertation on the last hundred years
of Lake Jessup's history. And we really need to in order to have that go back to being an active fishing destination address the nutrient load that's in there. And so this $15 million will go a long way towards making that what it was in the 40s and 50s when there were four or five fish camps on it. People used to vacation there. And then we got another
million and a half bucks for the Semino County Little Waka River sedimentation basin which was uh years ago. It ended up becoming a problem in flooding and we're trying to restore that water body as well. Any questions? I'm happy to and I I met dozen people today. So if you don't want to do it tonight, I'm happy to just call. I'm happy to chat
whenever. Mayor knows that I'm I'm good for whenever you got a email or something. I'm happy to turn it around. Thank you, sir. Any questions? Appreciate that, Senator. And I'm I'm happy to hear everything you've been telling us so far. Uh, I do have a question. Sure. Would you be willing, and I think you
might have seen the letter I sent to you, um, would you be willing to try and do something to support the fact that our vaccinations, many of them are in state law, and it's up to the legislation to protect that? A thousand%. I'm the only legislator that has a master's degree in public
health. And so the statute says that you must have polio, measles, mumps, rebella and ptus which is whooping cough, and all other diseases that the department of health recommends for the department of health has discretion and has always had discretion as to what all those
other ones are. And so in my view, unless and until there's new clinical evidence, and that's a phase three clinical trial that has a good design, double blind placeboc controlled that says that these are no longer needed, then they're needed. Appreciate you saying maybe we we need you to be the
surgeon general up there. Huh? If if the question is the difference between freedom and safety, then we might as well amend it to get rid of car seats, seat belts, and the laws against drinking and smoking when you're underage. Happy to hear you say that. Thank you very much. So, and maybe the only other thing you
can do is help us too, right? Exactly. help us put back some of the uh according to many studies the way we can make our streets and crosswalks safer by far with the art that's been out there that promotes
doesn't demote safety. So that's been a big issue. One of I'm happy to do it. One of the things that I get frequently tagged with is um we have some offramps and they're generally in Orange County, Lake Underh Hill Road by Alfa that are very dangerous. Uh we have a lot of senior citizens, we have a lot of visitors, neither of whom are
familiar or or have some vulnerabilities around visual acuity and uh we've got a a retention pond out there which is like the number one place in Florida where people drive into the water, right? And so there's we we have to balance that is that you know I'm sure Jacksonville wasn't thrilled that they had to paint over all the Jaguar heads
walking to the stadium, but that was that was part of it too. Or the checkers at Daytona Speed. Checker FL. Yeah. All the above, right? They all got all in the same thing. There are studies that really, really, really support the fact that those increase safety. So, whatever you can do to help us there, Senator, would be fabulous.
Yep. Thank you, sir. Okay. Anyone else? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. [Applause] Oh, we got a proclamation.
Almost forgot. Don't forget the daughters. Yeah, we have a proclamation for um Constitution Week if the daughters of the American Revolution are here and can come forward. Do they manage to get into the room?
Yes, as you would be. Come on up here with I don't have my down. Great. Uhoh. Whereas September 17, 2025 marks the 238th anniversary of the drafting of the
Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitution Convention. And whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to this magnificent document and its memorable anniversary and to the patriotic celebrations. Excuse me. Can we have the
people in I I apologize that we are so crowded, but we need the people in the hallway to uh be quiet while we're conducting business, please. Whereas it is fitting and proper to accord official recognition to this magnific magnificent document and its
memorable anniversary and to the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. And whereas public law 915 guarantees the issuing of a proclamation each year by the president of the United States of America designating September 17 through
September 23 as Constitution Week. Now therefore, I would by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim the week of September 17 through September 23, 2025 as Constitution Week and ask our citizens
to reaffirm the ideals the framers of the Constitution had in 1787 by vigilantly protecting the freedoms guaranteed to us in this guardian of our liberties, remembering that lost rights may never be regained. I would just like to welcome all the
citizens to join us on September 17th at 4 PM in downtown Sanford at the clock tower where we ring bells aloud to celebrate the Constitution Day. So, please join us. Thank you very much, Mayor Wood. Right. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Real quick, what time was that bell ringing? 4 p.m. 4 p.m. Thank you. [Applause] Okay. Um it is going to take cooperation
on all of our parts um with this crowd um and with this many people wanting to um participate um to facilitate public input. Um if you did not get one of the yellow forms, we will be calling it um for additional people that want to speak. So you do not have to have the
yellow form filled out. Um before the consent agenda, I will check to see if anyone wants to speak during the public hearing. We will afford that opportunity to anyone who wish to speak and when we get to regular items which I think is um what most of you are here for um we will
go through the yellow forms and then I will call on anyone else that wants to be recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item and during citizens participation and I'm going to ask the commission's approval to move citizens participation
to after the fire fee. Um, I Okay. No, the citizens participation is for things not on the agenda. And so I would like to move the part where we're talking about things not on the agenda after the fire fee so that all the people that want to speak on the
fire fee can go first. Okay. Approved. All right. And so during citizens participation, hold on. Mayor, can you can you repeat the fact that those that want to speak about the fire fee will have an opportunity?
Okay. You you're talking about a different speaking point. So we have an opportunity for citizens to speak on any item they wish to that is not on the agenda. The fire fee is on the agenda. And so I want to get to that
first before we open it up to other comments. Okay? because I believe that's what most of you are here for. So, everyone will have an opportunity to speak if they want to. Okay. Right. So,
no, that'll be after we deal with a fire fee, right? No. Okay. So that brings us to the minutes for the August 11, 2025 work session, regular meeting. And the August,
Ladies and gentlemen, we really need you to be quiet so that people can hear. Am I as loud as I can go? If it's any closer, then it's not. Okay. Okay. All right. You do only have one set of minutes. Which minutes do we have? August 11th,
2025 work session regular meeting to approve. Second. All in favor? Any opposed? Pass unanimously. That brings us to the first public hearing uh for adoption of the 2025 2026 millillage and 2025 2026
budget. Miss Lindsay. [Music] Okay. Are you presenting before the public hearing? Um just to hit do the on the on the agenda item declare the public.
Okay. So I'll declare the public hearing on the millillage and budget open. This is the first public hearing on the city of Sanford's 2026 mill and 2026 budget. The tenative millage rate of 7.325 is a 6.8049%
increase over the roll back rate of 6.8583 mills. Thank you, Mayor. Um this is Cynthia Lindsay. I'm the finance director for the city of Sanford and um this presentation is for the 2026 proposed
budget. As the mayor said, the tenative mill rate of 7.325 is a 6.80 8049 increase over the roll back rate of 6.8583. This was will result in the average single family homeowner paying $57.26
more in advor taxes to the city per year. The general fund revenues is where the taxes go um for the city and this budget is increasing 9.53%.
You can see 8.3 8.11% of that is adorum taxes with other revenue sources increasing it to the 9.53. General fund expenditures of course we have to have a balanced budget are also increasing 9.53%
and over the different divisions you can see the increases um in total um 85% in admin and governance. 27% in finance, 27% in development services, 3.61% in
fire, 0.05% in human resources, 1.16% in recreation, 5.43% in police, 47% in public works with transfers out and other uses decreasing.
This is the budget outlook changes. This is how we balanced the budget of our um increase in revenue of 7.4 million. We had an increase in personnel costs of 7.6 million, an increase in operating cost of 1.8, and a decrease in non-EP
departmental costs of $2 million. Adalor taxes compared to public safety. As you can see the first bar graph on each of the um individual years is the advalorum taxes public safety costes costs are the um second bar graph so um
I mean advalorum taxes are the second that's why and so the public safety is outpacing our adorum taxes current and future needs um for 2026 budget year we still need approximately $5.5 million um of unfunded capital
requests from the departments about a million in unfunded additional requests from departments for operations. CIP overall we're um unfunded about 4.1 that we need to make sure that our um maintenance and repairs and replacements
are done properly. And then for the upcoming budget years, we're looking at a need for the fire station 40 of about $4.6 million in operation equipment and additional personnel. There's a possible legislation out there um requiring firefighters to work less hours which
would cost the city about four million a year and we have the Gold Spurl sports complex complex operational costs when that is up and running a deloreum taxes in the city of Sanford. We do have the highest millage rate in
the county. However, the single family homeowner is um paying less than most of the other cities in the county except for Castleberry and Longwood. Longwood is almost even with us and Castleberry
is about $93 less than us and that's due to our property values. Also, if you look at um the cost per resident for AVLOM taxes, we are the lowest in the county. Mhm. Ours is $377
per um resident compared to the other um cities in the county. Everyone else is higher than us per resident. And that's the presentation for the budget. Open it up for comments or questions. Anybody have questions or comments?
Can you just explain uh what CIP stands for for those in the room that don't know what CIP is? Capital improvement program. So it's the replacement and um maintenance of all our capital and infrastructure, buildings, vehicles,
recreational parks, that sort of item. And and can you also explain that we have to have a balanced budget? We we are not allowed to not have correct. Um we're not federal um the state is required to have a balanced budget.
Cindy, on that same item, I think the last version of this, we had that under the 2027 budget year or later, but it's now under the 2026. So, it's correctly placed there now, right? Which item the CIP and actually the uh 1 million in unfunded petition
2026. Yeah. Okay. Any other questions? No questions, but comments. Um just so that the our residents and business owners that are here, even though this is the first public um hearing that we're having, the uh city staff has met
with our city commission. We have gone through our budget thoroughly. We've met over time. So for those who are not aware, this is not our first time looking at this presentation. I just want to help people understand what's actually happening here. Yes, the city budget starts in February
of each year and it it accumulates to the final um approval of the budget at the end of September. Okay. All right. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on the budget or the millage rate
for this item? You want to speak on the budget? Okay. Step four, please. Good evening and thank you for opportunity to talk here. Um my name is Bahan and I live in 3461 Windsor Lake
Circle, Sanford, Florida. Uh for the CIP item, you guys could apply for local funds through FDOT and Metro Plan and most of your maintenance and safety is going to be covered by federal fund that your city cannot pay for it. And I don't
think that's a possibility. You guys thought about it. It takes away from your budget. You guys applying for lap applying for what? Lap projects is the local funded agreement through metrop plan and FDOT.
I know this because I work for a different city and I am gathering fund for the city and I know how that work. All your CIP budget can go when you apply for local funding and it will be federally fund. So that way going to go away from your budget.
Okay. And if you need more help, I can go more in detail through look at the budget. All right. And they approving it every year and you get a lot of a lot of I seen project with $12 million. I seen project was 15.
I seen was 18 all federally federally funded and you don't have to carry that burden. Okay. Thank you. I ser I serve on Metro Plan and we do receive funds from Metro Plan and we do receive grant funds. Metro
plan and grant funds will not fund all of our capital improvement projects. What kind of project it is? There's always a way. I want to make sure that you guys have representative going to metrop plan meeting and do you have intake application? I will be willing to
help but I'm telling you all the CIP can go there. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. [Applause] is my name is Gerald Martin. I'm at 2855
Magnolia. Um I just wanted to question uh did you say that um it was $4 million for the firefighters because of the regulations they have to work less hours. So there's $4 million for that budget. No, we it's not budgeted.
Okay. Okay. Items that were not budget could because you're having to hire part-time people or if the state make changes the regulation and um requires firefighters to work fewer hours in order for us to maintain
our staffing, it will cost about $4 million more than what we are paying now for fire. So you'd hire you'd have to hire more. We would have to hire more firefighters and they'll be full-time. It won't be Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wants to speak on
the budget? Good evening. Answers. Uh I am the owner of the property address 215 South Avenue. I'm also an an attorney. So I received the
letters that the commission the city sent to everybody including all my neighbors and every my friend and so the first thing I would like to say is the letter lack of evidence
to prove why you okay ma'am are you talking about the fire fee on the taxes that's okay that's that's an item that we'll talk about in a little bit right now we're only talking about the overall city budget. We will talk about the fire fees specifically in a little bit.
I understood what you said, sir, but I want to express my opinion specially based on the law. The government based on the American constitution. Amendment 14. Many sections stated that
no state including the local authority can impose heavy taxes. Taxes mean anything you want to collect from the citizen unless you can prove to the citizen that
you need those money. I didn't see any numbers any evidence attached to the letters prove that the city of Sanford need this
kind of budget. So that the first thing the violation the proposal violate the constitution of the American also under the case of northern south Utah wilderness islands the supreme
court said that any government state and local should clarify and very clear to its citizen for
whatever they want to do. I heard your budget you need 10 million, 4 million, a lot of thing like that, but we don't know what the money for and the history of the expenses in the last 10 years.
You need more money for the fire department, fire the protection and rescue is I understand it's very important. However, the city failed to prove that the current taxes have
covered all the expenses already. That what I want to express. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, is there anyone else that wishes to speak on the overall budget or the millage rate? We will speak about the
fire fee specifically in a little while. Okay. Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing on the budget. Bring it to commission for action. Move to approve. Second. Motion a second. Any further discussion. Okay. Um I am confident that our staff
are our ourselves. You're doing uh Oh, I'm not following the right thing. You want to do two separate motions. So, you want to do a motion as to the budget and then you're going to do a motion as to mil. Either way, just make sure it's two separate motions. Okay. So, I need a motion on the military first, please.
Move to approve the military. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Now, a motion on the budget. Move to approve budget. Second.
Okay. And um we do look at all sources of income. If there is another opportunity for us to find some money, I would be more than happy to to explore that with you. Um all of our is public record.
All of our budgets are on the city. Excuse me. Yes, all of the budgets are available on the city website as long and the proposed budget has been on the city website since July. All right.
Okay. So, this is the first reading. The final hearing on the city's 2025 2026 millillage and budget will take place on Monday, September 22, 2025 at 7 a.m. here in the city commission chambers at
city hall. As I mentioned, the budget document is available on the city's website under the finance department. Okay? And it is a little long and it's a little painful trying to get through it all, but we did it. So, if you really
care, it's out there. Feel free to read. I will. You got it. Okay. That brings us to the consent agenda. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on any of the items that are on the consent agenda? The fire
fee is not on the consent agenda. Okay. Seeing no one, I'll bring that to the commission for action. Move to approve. Second. Motion a second. All in favor? Um 08 I would like to pull M.
Okay. So can we resend a motion please? I move to resend too quick there. Sorry. Okay. So can we get a motion on A through L?
Wait, we were supposed to pull something. Okay, we're pulling B. So consent A, C through L and N. I move to approve consent A C through L, not M because he's pulling M and N. N as
in Nancy. Okay. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Passionously. Um item M. Item M. And this is probably for our acting city manager, Mr. Radzac. Yes.
This is about the Mayfair Golf Course. Uh there's a section in here about hours of operation, right? And it says the bar may remain open for evening events but must vacate the property by midnight. Uh has it been the previous clubhouse? Was that open until
midnight? Was there any issue with that? No, I don't think so. Commissioner Austin says no. Yeah, I'm not aware. Okay. All right. Just checking on that. Uh also There are some other things I think
Craig, you and I can discuss that just have to do with the contract that's already been approved. Okay. But it's more of a I'm I'm not going to keep all the audience here for all of this. So, that was the main one I was concerned about. All right. Okay. Thank you.
All right. So, do we have a motion on M? Move to approve. Second. All in favor? Any opposed? That's unanimously. That brings us to public hearings. Res resolution 3416. Who's introducing? I could I could do it. Mayor. Okay. Good
evening, mayor, commissioners. At August 11, 2025 city commission meeting, the commission approved ordinance number 4831, which authorized the city commission to impose and collect fire assessment fees. Resolution number 3416 which was is being considered tonight
relates to the authorization and collection of fire assessments assessment fees. This is the final proposed action to be considered by the commission as defined by the ordinance to approve the fire assessment fees in the amount of approximately $2.1 million in the next fiscal year beginning
October 1st, 2025. It is staff's recommendation to approve resolution number 3416. Okay. Are we going to have a presentation? Okay, we'll go ahead and do the presentation. Yes. You ready? Uh, good evening. I'm Mike Mike Burton.
I'm a senior principal of the Rafelis and we were retained by the city to develop this fire assessment. I know you got a lot of people here, so I'll try to go through this relatively quickly. So, um, uh, myself and Eric Van Molson were the two who did this. We both have a lot
of experience with these all over the state of Florida doing these types of assessments. Um I'm going to talk about the background, the methodology, the calculation of the fire assessment and the adoption requirements. The city of Sanford retained RELIS to
design a fire protection non-evolum assessment program both fund a portion or all of the city's fire department. The city currently funds it fire department through the city's general fund. Fire assessment is a charge imposed against real property to pay for fire services provided by the local
government. Is a fire assessment a tax? No, it's not. Their similarities. Both generate revenue to pay for services and facilities. Both are mandatory and can be collected on the tax bill. The differences are assessments must provide
a special benefit to the property and taxes need not do that. uh Florida case law has established two requirements for the imposition of a non-evalorum special assessment. They are that the property assessments must derive a special benefit from the
service provided and the assessment must be fairly and reasonably aortioned among the properties that receive the special benefit. Costs that have been determined by case law to be included in a fire assessment are traditional fire protection services, first response medical aid,
including stabilization and first aid, and basic life support services, which are considered one of the routine duties of a firefighter. EMS services or emergency medical services above first responder services cannot be included in
a fire assessment and they include cost for medical transport, advanced life support services, and other medical treatment. Those costs are not in what you're seeing tonight. required exemptions uh also includes federal, state and local government
owned properties, common elements of condominiums, submerged and undeveloped properties that receive no benefit. Now, the first two uh they're exempt, but their costs that they otherwise were to pay is not spread over to the other um
properties. Those costs have to be borne by the city. Um, an assessment is a cost-effective and financially stable means of funding fire services and facilities. Revenues do not fluctuate but changes in property values or the economic variance. So, if
your property uh values go up, the assessment will not go up. Revenue diversification is provided here, which is always a good thing. And it's a dedicated funding source for the fire department. The revenue raised by the fire assessment must be used for the fire department and only for the fire
department. It can be designed to fund all or a special a specific portion of of the fire department's cost and the city commission determines the level of rates and the cost recovery percentage each year.
The methodology that was employed here uh for this study is the availability method which is a simple two-tier rate structure for all residential and non-residential parcels. Tier one is a flat rate, a flat fee that's equal per partial. Tier two is a variable fee per
parcel which is based upon the value of the structures on the parcel not the not the overall value of the parcel just the value of the structures. It's administratively easier to maintain than the other commonly used methodology which is calls for service methodology.
It utilizes publicly available data from the county property appraiser. Assessments do not shift based upon changes in call demand and it it does not distinguish between property classification. The tier one uh benefit is called a a
response readiness availability benefit. All properties whether vacant or developed are charged the tier one rate. It's a single equal fee per parcel. All parcels in the city benefit equally from the availability of fire protection service that the city provides on call without discrimination as the property
class on a 24-hour a day, 7-day a week, year-round basis. The benefits include the availability of immediate response to fire, first responder medical aid to protect the life and saf safety of occupants, containment of liability for emergency incidents on the subject
parcels and the spread of fire to fires to other property and enhanced property value. Enhanced marketability of and or ability to develop the property. Therefore, it is appropriate to portion the cost in this cost pool equally per part parcel. And this cost cost pool is
about 30% of the total cost in the assessment. Tier 2 benefit is the protection from the loss of the structure. Only improved properties are charged a tier 2 rate. Improved properties are all non-bank properties with developed structures on
the property. There's a charge for every $5,000 of structure value and it's rounded down to the nearest $5,000. Not the assessed value, just the structure value as determined by the property appraiser that's available in the property appraiser system. The $5,000
structure value equals an equivalent benefit unit that we'll talk about during this or EBU. Improved properties receive the following benefits in addition to the tier one benefits for their tier 2 payment. protection from the loss of the value of structures on
the property due to fire by virtue of the ability to obtain fire insurance and to obtain that insurance at attractive rates because of the availability of fire protection service that the city provides and protection from loss provided by the availability of fire suppression service provided by the city
if they're able to get to the fire uh soon enough to um contain the loss. how it's calculated. After the presentation of the revenue requirements of the fire department that can be included in the assessment to the city commission, the commission determined to
only recover the annual average annual cost of capital expenditures in the assessment. This equates to roughly 9.5% of the annual revenue requirements of the fire department. So the remainder uh almost 91%
are have to be funded through the general fund. The net revenue requirement is 22.3 million of the fire of the fire department. The average annual capital costs are 2.3 million 2.13 million. So that's the amount that's
going to be recovered in the fire assessment. Um the capital needs if you look at the capital needs from 26 through 30 you can see they go up and down year by year but the second line shows that the average annual capital needs are $2.13 million.
that's how much uh will be recovered in the assessment and available to the city as a as a net income coming from the assessment. Um when you look at the the over to the right you'll see the rate per parcel um is going in and tier one is going to be
3528 per parcel and for tier two it's going to be $133 for every thous every $5,000 of structure value that's on the parcel. Uh when you look at at in the middle column there it shows that in order to
have 2.131 uh dollars of revenue at the bottom of that we have to uh include 2.5 million in the assessment because of the exemptions and the cost associated with the exception the assessment to give that net income of 2.13 million$131
million $2.130 million. Um, when you look at this, the the gray shaded areas, a single family home, the average structure value of those in those homes in the city is about $200,000 and their annual assessment will be $8848.
If you look at it on an equivalent monthly basis at about $7.37 and we just looked at a low value of 75,000 and a high value of 400,000 and you can see over there it would be 5523 for the low uh structure value and 14168
for the higher structure value. Um, and you can see here we did a sample of other types of properties. A small apartment complex, a large comp complex, a retail store, a restaurant, a department store. And you can see over to the right, those are the annual
amounts um uh that each of those types uh would would receive um for their average structure values. And at the bottom, you can see a vacant lot is not is not has no structure value on it would be charged 3528 per year.
The initial adoption requires public hearings to be completed by the end of the fiscal year. Uh I think the assistant city manager mentioned that there was a first reading of a a procedure ordinance on July 28th. That does not oppose the assessment. It only establishes the procedure for the initial levy and the annual
administration of the assessment. Second reading was held on August 11th. The initial levy requires adoption of an initial assessment resolution which was adopted on January 28 on July 28th. Uh specify that that resolution specify the
intended rates and revenues to be adopted as well as the maximum rate. The maximum rates are adopted so the city may adjust rates in future years up to the maximum amount without additional citywide first class mail notices. They still have to go through the notice process and have a hearing for it. they
just don't have to mail out the first class mail. Um the schedule public hearing for September 8th which ran now and the direct mail in the publishing notice of public hearing have been um taken care of and the notice requirements included local advertisement and a local
newspaper 20 ways prior to the public hearing which was done and first plus first class mail notices to all potentially assessed property owners stating the assessment rates and the proposed assessments for the property. The first class mail notices must be postmarked 20 days prior to the hearing,
which they were. Final adoption and levy of initial assessment. Following this final hearing being held today on the September the 8th, city commission will consider adoption of a final assessment resolution to approve and adopt the fire assessment rates for fiscal year 26 and
approve the assessment role. If the city adopts the final assessment resolution following this public hearing, the fire assessment for FY26 will be approved and levied. The city will direct bill the fire assessment for FY2026. It will be a mailing to each uh property
owner that's subject to the assessment for the bill and the city commission will consider a resolution expressing their intent to use the property tax bill collection method before the end of December 2025. If that intent resolution is adopted, the collection of the fire
assessment on property tax bills for FY27 will commence with a November 26 property tax bill. For each year following the initial levy, the commission will adopt resolutions to approve the rates of the fire assessment and the assessment role for the fourthcoming fiscal year. Annual
resolution must be adopted by no later than September 15th each year. And I went through that quickly, but that's the end of the presentation. I'll turn it back over to you, Mr. Do do you have the max maximum rates handy? I do. It's in another file. Um I'll get
it for you real quick. Excuse me, sir. Hold on, please. I'm sorry. That's further down. [Music] Okay, here here it is. Let me see if I can make this a little bit bigger. Um, the tier one rate, the maximum rate would be 34.
No, I mean the maximum rate at the 2.1 million. I'm sorry, what? The maximum rate of the 2.1 million, not the maximum rate that we could have charged if we did the entire Okay, I don't understand the question. Does somebody have their letter tier one tier two?
Well, there there's only one rate for that. Give us two on our letter. No, there's a max the maximum rate was listed in the letter. I'm I'm not clear about the question. I'm very sorry. Okay, Chief. Okay. Can we uh
Chief, can you get a letter from one of the our citizens so I can Is that That's That's tier two. Thank you. Okay. Okay. I got it.
[Music] The maximum on the tier one is 3970 and on the tier two it's $150. Okay. Sorry, didn't All right. Um Okay.
Is that the the presentation? That's it. Okay. Miss Lindsay, did you have anything to add in terms of presentation before we get started? Okay. Um before we go to uh speakers, I I want to make a couple of comments um because we have clearly
gotten a lot of feedback from our residents on this. Um there I would like to clear up a couple of things. Um one, we're not in a budget crisis. There's no mismanagement that is causing us to suddenly have to
go ask for more money. This was a what we thought of as a forwardthinking way of looking at how we fund the fire department. The the difference between using property taxes and using the
assessment. One of the main um differences is we have a lot of tax exempt property in the city of Sanford. Think about we have some homes that are below a value that pay any property tax. We have a lot of nonprofit organizations
that pay no property tax. The assessment is applied to all properties except for government-owned properties as was was stated and um condo um common areas. But one of the thing the reasons I find the
assessment attractive is over time it means everyone is helping fund the fire department not just our property tax um payers. Um so that's why we started looking at this last September October.
Um so we've looked at it for a long time. We decided to hold it to just the capital cost because you know we want to make sure when there's a call we have equipment that
works and we are have with with our the size of our department as you see we're spending over $2 million a year on capital and this provides us a a way to know we have the funding to purchase the items
replacement engines replacement air packs, um, all the things that the fire department uses. Okay. Thank you. All right. All right. Appreciate that. Okay. Um,
a number of people have asked me about why don't we just use impact fees? Impact fees can only be used for new cost. So, we're building a new fire station because we have a lot of new development out on Lake Mary Boulevard. Impact fees can be used to help build
that fire station. Impact fees can be used to buy the initial fire engine and rescue squad for that fire station. Impact fees cannot be used for replacement equipment over time. So, those of us that live here have to pay
for the new equipment that need we need to replace um the equipment we have. We have a fire engine that we are not replacing this year that is 15 years old. Um and the last thing I well probably not
the last thing but last thing I've written down the reason I asked to make sure we knew the maximum rate was because that 10% increase thing has bothered a lot of people. Okay. The maximum rate we can go to is the
39.7 um $39.70 for the tier one. Okay. Above the 30 the first year would be 35.28 $35.28. The maximum we can go to is $39.70.
For tier 2 the rate if we if we do this the first year's rate would be $1.33. The maximum rate we can go to is $1.50. So, we would be, and I can't imagine we would do this, but we would be allowed
to go up 10% in one year. But wait, excuse me. Excuse me. We would be able to go up 10% in one year, but we would not be able to go above the maximum rate, which is about
12.5% total. So I just want it's not we're not setting if we pass this. We are not setting something that we can increase 10% every year. We can increase it a total of 12 and a half% without
going back to another study and another notice to everyone by first class mail. Now to be perfectly honest, I'm on the fence on this. I think I think the fire assessment is a good way to fund the fire department.
I think our residents either don't understand or just disagree with me. A lot of them um and we will hear from them in a minute, but we have heard from them a lot a lot of them already. But I don't know if anyone else on the
commission wants to share any thoughts before we go to um Yeah, I would comments. I I I I'm Commissioner Britain and I would like to say that I absolutely love the civic engagement. I I I wish that you all were here on a couple other items um that we brought before the commission. Your
comments, everything is important for us. It helps to guide us and we're here to listen to you. Each and every one of you are our bosses, right? You are the boss and we work for you. But we also want you to know that we have gone through this through many meetings. And
I'm going to ask a couple of questions throughout this time that I I already know the answer to, but you may not know the answer to because we have looked at this thoroughly. But I want to remind you that you're the boss and we are here for you and I encourage what you all are
here to do today. Okay. Anyone else? I would uh absolutely agree with what she commissioner Britain is saying and we also understand the fact that a lot of you didn't know anything about this until you got the letter. So
you need to have the time to read through that to be here to hear what we have to say to hear what your fellow citizens have to say. We appreciate the fact that you haven't had the time we've had to absorb this and understand it and that's why this is um it is great to see
the participation here. So, we hope you get all the information you need to, as Commissioner Britain said, help us make the right decision for all of you. Anyone else? All right, then I will go to um the yellow forums first. Uh and
you will have three minutes um to speak. Morgan Monroe, thank you so much. Uh, my name is Morgan Monroe and I live at 1408 Bair Boulevard, Sanford 32771. Uh, I know we're running short on time, so I'm going to go through this really
quickly. Uh, first want to say that Sanford is a really great place to live in our eight years here. We've seen it grow tremendously in the right directions. Definitely fully support funding fire protection and first responders. It's essential service and I'm willing to pay more for it. My
objection is not to the fire department, but to the funding structure being proposed here, specifically the fee for service model. Uh Sanford's grown rapidly, but the city is often given tax breaks and special deals to developers instead of capturing long-term revenue
from them. Examples include the new sports district projected to cost over a hundred million, is structured around incentives and hotel taxes that mostly benefit developers and operators. That's money that could have supported public safety instead. Another example, the uh
senior community in downtown here. Instead of maximizing the taxable value with high-end housing, the city incentivizes a project that will likely produce less long-term property property tax growth. Uh the city, I know, is fiscally
responsible. Uh we've seen it before. Parks are well-kept and maintained. Roads are wellmaintained, resurfaced all the time. We've had a budget surplus several times, but the funding gap that we're facing here is not an accident. It's the result of peacemeal decisions
that have been made over the years and missed chances to build a stronger revenue base. A better long-term solution, in my opinion, is increased impact fees on developers who directly drive the demand for new fire services.
rebalancing business and tourism taxes so the cost of growth isn't unfairly shifted just onto homeowners. And third, and most importantly, plan holistically. The the bottom line is that we're forced into new fees every time that a
department comes up short. I mean, if you think about the whole budget when you're making any decision about any part of the budget, I think that would help because peace meal thinking is kind of what got us into this shortfall. So, in closing, I'd just like to say that uh, you know, please fund the fire
department, but not through an annual fee that automatically grows. Let's look at the bigger picture. Smarter development deals and stronger growth policies would have prevented this crisis in the first place. I would suggest implementing this fee one time for this year only. Then either finding
a better revenue stream for it or put it to a vote next year so that the residents can decide if they want to pay or if you can cover it by making more profitable deals with developers. We know that it's only a fee because the taxpayers wouldn't have approved it in the first place. So, I've got 10 seconds
left. I yield the rest of my time. Thank you so much. Thank you, Morgan. All right. I just to clarify a couple of things. The sports complex and the tourist taxes is done by Seminal County. Um the city has nothing to do with that.
Um and I already mentioned how impact fees cannot be used for ongoing replacement of um equipment that the city overall needs. And I'd also clarify again, there is no budget shortfall that we have an emergency to replace with
this fee. This is something we have been looking at for a number of months as a different way to fund the fire department over time. So Ed Clark that budget that you just approved would change in any way based off this.
Okay. Are you at Clark? No, I'm sorry. Okay. When you when when you come up, ask that question, please. Okay. Is that Clark here? That's not also could we um I I I appreciate the
enthusiasm, but Mr. Morgan had some really great points that I'm jotting down and I couldn't hear because we were clapping. I really appre appreciate the enthusiasm, but we're also trying to gather information as well. Thank you, Morgan. Okay, Jean Crocmmyer. Here
he is. Jean Krookmire, come on down. Is this going to be a short film or a long film? Jean. Jean, we love your shorts. 45 seconds. 45. All right. Jean Buckmire, 608 South Elm Avenue.
I feel sorry for the commissioners. Sorry because you've been put in this position to have to decide something that that should have been taken care of years ago by the city manager manager who should have anticipated this before
now. This is something that supposedly needs to be covered by a new yearly tax. After all, he's been preparing the city budget since he was hired in 2011, 14 years ago. A few days ago, the mayor thankfully said in a notice the property to
property owners, quote, "There is no budget crisis requiring this assessment," unquote. In that same notice, he said the overall general fund budget, including all revenues, including property taxes, will increase about 8.8% for this coming year.
Since that's the case, it seems that a city manager, maybe a new city manager, could use some of that new revenue to save and put forward put toward the fire expenditures as needed rather than having the commission pick up the pieces and pass on this additional tax to cover
budgeting shortfalls. Thank you. I would point out it was it was a commissioner who suggested we look at the fire fee, not the city manager. He's been creating budgets for 14 years. He should have anticipated something like this to be making plans for it.
Okay. Thank you, John Spolski. John Smolsky 301 West Street Sanford. Sorry. I've lived in this area for 66 years, so I'm pretty familiar with it. Uh, the funds affecting first responders are something that I take very
seriously. My dad was, excuse me, with the S County Sheriff's Department for over 25 years. My son was in law enforcement for over 12 and now he's transitioned into being an instructor for law enforcement. So, it's still in a first responder kind of uh situation.
Therefore, I don't take this lightly when it comes to the firefighters, but I'd like to look at the big picture, if you will, for everybody probably in this room. And I'll give you a couple quick examples. I got my notification from Semino County on one of our buildings, and the taxes on that one building went
up 60% this coming year based on their proposed budget, and there was no improvements done to the building, which would have affected the the valuation of that building. insurance that everybody here is dealing with. The insurance industry is in a shambles. One of our
buildings a year plus ago, our rates on that one building with no ever claims being made on it increased over 100% in the cost of insurance. The everyday thing that these people are dealing with, going to the grocery store,
everything that has to do with inflation that everybody in here is dealing with, the cost of living is just out of control. I could go on and on with many other reasons and you could sit there and say, "Well, we don't have any control over what you're just saying to us. We're just we're just the city
commission." But I want to give you 3.75 million reasons that you could have made a difference. And that had to do with a fiasco known as the heritage center that you all except Commissioner Thomas wasn't there. You all unanimously agreed
to give $3.75 million to a developer who lied and Commissioner Austin, you even validated that, that they never had their financing in place. Never. But at the end of your meeting, you were saying
what great standup people they were. You know that that's that's unconscionable to give away $3.75 million and that's just scratching the surface. By the time you figure everybody's fees as far as in this whole building as far as the
attorney's fees, all the staff fees, everything else 3.75 is a joke. Brady Lassard was charged with coming up with something to so that Sanford wouldn't have a black eye from this. He tried valiantly, but in my opinion, Sanford
wound up with two black eyes from this because what he exposed from them was they claimed that they had $3.6 million invested in this. It doesn't matter. They were liars. It doesn't matter if it was 10 times that amount. You were under
no obligation to make them whole on this deal. 8 to 10 years that elapsed. Sorry, I got 30 seconds. As far as your responsibility, when you were saying, mayor, in all due respect, that there is
no mismanagement here that caused this need for the fire department for needing these assessments, which is a tax. Call it what it is. It's a tax. All right, quit dancing around it. It is a tax on everybody in here, you know, but to sit
there and try to qualify it as well, there's no mismanagement. Finish up, please. Okay. You know, that was gross mismanagement, you know, on my part in the 66 years I've lived here. This to me is one of the biggest embarrassments that Sanford has ever been known for.
And you are not going to just let it be swept under the rug. It is out there. Everybody in here knows it. Now, everybody in here is coming to voice their objection to it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, John. [Applause]
Conor Maguire. Hey, thank you for taking the time. Been reading off my phone, so bear with me. My name is Conor Maguire. I live at 403 San Atlanta Circle. I'm a Sanford homeowner. I work in the construction industry as a project manager. Recently, my father's been battling cancer. I've
had to help operate his business. This has limited my income, made my finances tighter than ever. From 2024 to this January, my property taxes will have gone up $700. When I become a when I became aware, I reduced expenses as much as I could. The next thing I know, I get a letter from Sanford saying I owe more.
Cost of living and homeowners insurance is skyrocketing. People are being squeezed more now than ever. The city of Sanford government is doing great financially and has seen massive growth in its net position, reserves, and overall income across the board. In 2022, total revenue outpaced expenses by
22.6 million. In 2023, revenue outpaced expenses by 25.5 million. In 2024, total revenue outpaced expenses by 36.6 million. The mayor reasons that fire trucks have gone up from 600k to nearly 1 million. Well, the increase in profits
from 2022 to 2024 is 14 million. I think you can manage a couple new trucks without this measure. The growth in net positions since 2020 has outpaced the population growth by a factor of more than 8 to one. It seems obvious to me that no matter what the numbers are, this assessment is
just another lowhanging fruit because you see other municipalities doing it. Right after nearly $4 million settlement for the heritage project, we're going to be forced to fund $2.3 million of fire equipment. 7 million is going to a golf club. 20 million is going to the marina, which FEMA is expected to reimburse.
When the $20 million for the marina is refunded, will this will this tax be removed? Of course not. the new tax will stay in place forever while Sanford pockets the cash. It's an insult to every resident's intelligence to say there's no other choice but to levy a new recurring tax in perpetuity. I've read all the mayor's comments to the
media and I've not read one word about a single cut or sacrifice that has been made to prevent this new tax. Make no mistake, if these fees aren't paid, the letter says they'll take your house away. That's right. For such serious consequences, shouldn't you be taking taxation more seriously? Where are the cuts?
Calvin Kulage, our 30th our 30th president once said, "Collecting taxes more than absolutely necessary is legalized or operating." I do not feel like this body has done its due diligence to asssure it's absolutely necessary. To the contrary, this can be funded through our existing funds. That's a fact. Before you make
your votes, I ask that each of you take a moment to consider the thousands of Sanford residents that will struggle to make hard choices at the grocery store this year. That's a reality you all need to consider. Next election is November 2026. I'll see you there. Thank you, Connor.
This one, Yamalith. And I can't read the last name. Okay. My name is Yama. My English is not so good. I want to get a letter to you. Okay. Hand it to the
chief, please. Thank you. I'm sorry I never involved. I never come. I don't have time. I had to work a lot because my taxes is $7,500. Gracias for being here.
Next year they told me my taxes will be $7,800 plus that I think my tax my taxes will be $8,000. Um I'm soon for I'm soon I'm 59. I will be six 60 6
and um I don't know if I can when I retired I can pay my own home and the mortgage I had for 15 year more. Um I think in this is I don't know how how we will do if you it's a little it's not so much if you see the port center but
every year in my taxes will go up and plus that too I don't know how we will do and I talking maybe too many people is here for the same reason. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Y [Applause]
Daniel Ruis. Hello. Can you hear me? Uh I just a lot of people have already brought up a lot of concerns uh that I had. Um oh, Danny Ross, 1507 Cutill Way. Um, I'm here on behalf of a lot of friends and business owners who couldn't make it
tonight. So, um, a lot of concerns and only three minutes, but uh, one of them is I see a slippery slope happening here, which is, you know, we have the fire doing this to come up with a potential shortfall. Are there any guarantees this commission can give us that the police department won't be
behind it? Yes, because state law does not allow you to do it for the police department. Does not allow it. Well, you know, we could call it something else perhaps, but that's good. Um, I also think, you know, the commission could do well by perhaps
maybe alleviating some citizens concerns about the penalties for not paying this. It does. It's using the same methods as property tax uh, you know, putting tax leans and potentially taking people's homes from under them. I believe if that was separated from this, you could find a lot more support for something like
this. Um, the like I said, uh, I just see it as a slippery slope. I think this has not been explained properly. Um, and that's not really a hit on you guys. Um, you know, I know you have to play the villain tonight, but you have a very good commission up here. I come from
South Florida. I have seen bad ones. Um, but, uh, I really think you could have done yourselves a a service by putting out more letters about this, having more public hearings of this to explain this because here in Semino County, we did reapprove the penny sales tax and they
really went out and campaigned for it. There were ads, there were things in your mailbox. And I really think if you went out and explained this better to citizens about, you know, the budgetary constraints that you have gone through it with a fine tooth comb and you can't find these things and ju just do a
little uh little more for that and uh take it easy on these people. They're a little upset. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Hector Figureroa. Good evening, Hector Figueroas, uh, 160 Pinefield Drive. Um, first I want to I want to have a question. Why in the
presentation we're missing a few pages like explain um the full cost of recovery or the partial cost of recovery? It was removed from that from that presentation on the screen. Transparency is powerful.
Um second of all if we working on approval the partial recovery or the full recovery because they have different formula for both right what what we are considering is partial recovery and that's why those
slides were taken out the to the total amount that we are looking at possibly collecting would be the $2.1 million per year for the power okay we we support you know the previous speakers will be honest we super supporter of every first responders like fire department, EMT,
medical. Uh but another portion um obviously the partial is like a 2 million something every year or whatever. How much we pay for the assessment uh roughly did to put this on this presentation? I was keeping pages on the screen how much what that
contract what was the cost of the study it's good for transparency you know 45 And you shouldn't be able to. Yeah, we can go quicker because my time we can pause the time because it's
taking forever. Well, go ahead and then we'll get you the answer. Well, to be honest, uh the other portion is do we in compliance with the law required for approval of this budget? Because first of all the requirement for this approval key requirement for
imposit the no ad baloran benefit the assessment must fund improvements or services that provide a direct special benefit to the assessment real property deferring in kind of degree from benefit to the general community. With that says
in the same fire department web page basically what benefit they bringing to us right now additional to the service that they already providing to the community. They already found them with that taxpayer money. There there is not an additional benefit. This will fund part of the
current benefit which is there is a fire department to respond to your house if necessary. But if that's the case, if no one comply with the requirement, the law at the case law, the last case law from um it was Lake County versus weight
water oak management. In that one, they approved the budget proposal because they add a benefit into it. That's a requirement for approval of those assessment. They need to add something extra to what is already in place. That's what this case law if anybody
want to look for Lake County versus waterf management. They approved the segment but because they add extra services. Okay. Thank you. Did we get an answer on the cost of the study? Yeah. Mayor. Um
it's easy in the uh it's a number sir. They're looking for it. Got it. Okay. I have I have an answer for you. out of the assessment, 23,000 is going for consulting fees and any other costs that
were incurred beyond that would be paid out of the general fund, not out of the assessment. Okay. So, $23,000 out of the assessment. That's one of the deductions in here that was in one of the slides that we showed. All right. Keep doing Are we telling are we all telling all the citizens here the only cost for that
is going to be 23,000? That's all that's being future work. Hold on. Mhm. That's all that's being paid for. That is not the entire cost of the study though. There is no cost coming out. That's what we want is the total cost of the study. Portion that would be funded through the
$23,000 of the assessment would go is no it's no full answer for the question. I know I I'm waiting for the answer. I don't have it yet because if we short for 2 million and we paying 2 million for assessment, we can relocate that money
to where is it more important than an assessment. Thank you. 58,730. $58,000 total. Yes. Thank you, George Stevens. That lady right there. She got to be on
her last name. I'm representing uh a few hundred folks at my congregation. I don't know if I get five minutes or three, but uh I am speaking on behalf of my congregation.
I'm a pastor here in Sanford at Riverwalk Church, 801 West 22nd Street in Sanford. And Mr. Mayor, in all due respect, I know a lot of people that know you and told me about you, but I never met you till tonight. But I have a little
problem. Uh it sounded like that um you're taking in and mentioning nonprofit organizations will be uh assessed as well. Yes, sir. I don't think maybe you guys understand
what nonprofit organizations do, how much we help people. You got the crisis pregnancy center. Uh you've got churches that feed people when they're hungry. help them when they're on drugs, help them get out of situations. And it just
sounds like this is just the way the world is going that they're trying to do away with the faith-based ministries and tax them and do what I I understand how people feel about taxes and nonprofits, but we help a lot of people.
Churches and nonprofit organizations help a lot of people. And maybe I didn't get the figures right, but you're talking about $5,000 a hundred dollar 333 cent for every $5,000. Now, what is the price on 4.7 million if
it's the value of your property? That's what we would have to pay. So I'm totally 100% not only for my congregation and the people who who live there in this city
that's this is going to affect but it's also going to affect the place they worship a place where they get needs met a place where they get help and not only that but the citizens of this country I mean this this citizen citizens of this city
And I see roads that need to be fixed in front of our church. And I've I've I've called and and tried to get help. And there's alligator tracks, grass growing up through it. And my people coming out of the church see this. And
I got a water bill for $2,000. And we can't even find a meter that it's owned. It's not even on our property. And they asset. They say that they estimate it. Come on, folks.
I need an amen back there. Estimating the water. And I get a $2,000 bill. We checked every faucet. We checked every toilet. And none of it is leaking. But yet, we get a $2,000 bill.
And we pay taxes on that as well. So, I'm just saying I'm totally in opposition to this. I believe in supporting the blue. I support the firefighters, the first responders, but a few weeks ago, I had a collapse,
mayor. I had to be taken to the hospital. I was in that ambulance going to the hospital. When I got to the hospital, I said, "You know, we got this thing coming up about the fire protection." And one of the guys said to me, "Yeah,
you need to go to that meeting because we're not getting a dime of it. [Applause] The the fire department would get every dime of this. Who's who's going to make sure, mayor,
who's who's going to make sure that Vanessa Martin goes to them? And if it doesn't, is it misappropriation of funds? Yes, it would be. Vanessa Martin. Hi. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for the privilege of being able to speak
before you today. Today I'm coming also because I have the same problems that everybody else have here. Miss Martin, your address. Oh, 2413 South Lake Avenue, Sanford, Florida. Okay, thank you. I have the same problem that
everyone else does. The city of Sanford is asking me for something. M matter of fact, they're not asking me. Y'all are demanding it from us. Y'all sent us a letter without an itemization of anything. And you and when we ask for something, it's hard to
get. We got to go through jump through all kinds of hoops. I got a leak on my property, which is the city's part of the property, and I take pictures and everything. Nobody, no one does anything, but I'm a taxpayer. I'm a homeowner.
But you, everyone up here, y'all sent us a letter demanding. It's a demand because really, we saw the vote before us. Y'all voted on something that we had no sense over and ratified it right in our face. So you let us know that today
that whatever we said doesn't count. But I'm just like the rest of everybody else up here. That's going to be a day where what we say is going to count. So I want you to take notes and remember every face that's in here because we're going
to make it count if y'all can't make it count for us today. Thank you so very much for listening to us. Thank you. Thank you, Vanessa. John Horvath John. Hi John. Evening mayor commissioners. Uh John
Horvath 4 Bradford Drive, Winter Park, Florida. And I always say that's I live in Semol County, but I have a Winter Park mailing address and I pay semol county taxes. I've been involved with the fire service for many years and I follow this and there's seven cities in
the county. Three of them have merged with the county fire department, Eldermont, Castlebury and Winter Springs. And each one of them has their own identity, etc. But in talking to the fire chief of Semino County, the personnel were merged into the county
fire department and they they fill in. In fact, when I attended a budget hearing for their presentation, the de deputy chief was from Castlebury. So, I'm looking at this city and I know what fire trucks cost a million dollars. I remember when they were half a million dollars cuz Commissioner Delari at a
meeting corrected me on that. But I think you might want to look at maybe merging with the county. I know that scares a lot of people, but this day and age with this unfunded mandate of this changing the hours cost you how many millions of dollars, what do you think
it's going to cost the county and some of these other cities? And then I think Winter Garden was talking about assessment fees and I think they dropped that because of this situation problem, but this is a small county and I know we
work together. I've had discussions with you, mayor, on this, and that one little step may make may make a difference for these people and not have this other assessment. And I know Craig was a fire chief for many years here. So, he knows what the fire services and he's worked
with the county and all the other cities. And there's not a lot of difference cuz when you need the call, they're there with mutual aid, first response, and automatic dispatch from from the county. So, a lot of stuff has been merged, so to speak. And that would be a further step to stretch the tax
dollars out for these citizens cuz I'm tied with money too. I've been retired for many years and I just spent a$1,000 on my computer. So, you know, that's that's a lot of money for me. But other things have gone up. But, uh, you need to look at that and think about that
because I know that people might not like what I'm saying, but that's a possibility cuz if you know anybody in those cities that go to you work with a church or whatever, ask them about their fire service if they're disappointed with the county running it. And I don't think you'll hear an argument because
with automatic first response, a county truck can go anywhere in the county and vice versa. And I I think Craig's aware of that being a former fire chief. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Mayor, thank you. Thank you, John. Donaldson Woody.
Good evening. Donaldson Woody, 1998 East 4th Street, Sanford, Florida. And by the way, what you have written on your paper is we get five minutes for this section. Um Yes. So anyway, um the my biggest
objections are what your letter that you sent to us does not reflect anything that that man over there said to said to us. Four points uh arbitrary property valuation.
Your letter to me attributes 80 tier two EBUs to my property implying a valuation of approximately $400,000. Where you get that figure, I don't know. But if you can decide what my property value is, what's to say that next year
you're not going to say, "Oh, it's $600,000." He said that you can only assess a a tier 2 based on what the buildings on my property according to the tax role says,
not $40,000 or $400,000 what your letter says. See, that's what I'm going by what the letter says. If what you sent to me isn't correct, please forgive me. I'm very passionate. I get excited. Sorry.
Um, so that's a huge discrepancy right there. Uh, limit limitless future increases. You explained that a little bit better, but according to what your letter says, your letter says that you can raise it up to 10% or no, I'm sorry,
you will not raise it more than 10% unless we notify you, which says you can do whatever you want. That's what your letter says. Okay. If that's not true, okay, great. But I'm I'm going by what the letter actually says. The words on
the page, they they they uh make a difference. Uh third point. Three more. I'm sorry. You have three more, right? Go ahead. Two more. Okay. Uh the violation of the homestead property protections. As a homestead
property, my tax increases are constitutionally limited by the Save Our Homes Amendment, SOS. O, which caps annual increases in in assessed value to lesser than 3% or the CPI. A 3% increase on my particular property would equate
to $91, whereas what you're proposing is going to be $141, which is a 7.7% increase. You can say this is not a tax, but if it's based on my property value, if it's collected by the taxing
authority and if it's it's not a fee because I pay fees for stuff that I choose. I want to watch Netflix, I pay the fee for it. If I don't want to watch Netflix, I don't pay the fee for it. A tax is something that is mandated I must
pay by your letter at the penalty of forfeite of my property. That's what it says. And so, and I'm going to go by what you have written down because any lawyer will tell you it doesn't matter what you say. What's written on the page is what counts. So, I'm going to take
just one more minute, please. Breaking the 10% rule, which you did address that, which I'm thankful for that it you're saying that it could never go up any more than that without going through this whole process. Yes. Going through this process. So that
that's that's almost a mu point. I'm not opposed to helping get the money necessary for the fire department even though I personally live in a house that's fireproof, but that's okay. Um it is it has never it's all steel. So
anyway, the uh Yeah, exactly. Okay, finish up. I I'm confusion. As a longtime resident and homeowner in Sanford, I understand the need to maintain and improve vital public services such as fire protection.
However, these efforts must be undertaken with fairness, accountability, and respect for the financial constraints many citizens, especially seniors like myself who am is retired are facing. I appreciate your time and respectfully request that you
reconsider the proposal assessment structure to ensure a more equitable and transparent solution. I just I want to hear if you don't mind are you the determining factor as to
according to my letter you said my house would be assessed at $400,000. He said the assessments would be based on the value on the tax role of my buildings. Which one is it? If it's on,
let me Okay, sir. Sirong with that. Thank you. It's It's based It's supposed to be based on the property value, the building value as listed in the property appraisers website. If a mistake was made in that, if this is passed, then that will be corrected.
Okay? Because I'm what I'm saying is that is not what this letter says. Okay. Thank you. And I think that's why there's a lot of people here that are really upset based on what they got in the mail. Thank you, Randy Smatters. Randy Smatthers, 109 Maplewood Drive,
Sanford. I'm know a lot of you guys. Spent a lot of time with these guys. myself and the fire service for 35 years starting when I was 14 um volunteering the city of Lake Mary. The reality is um for me the reality is going through here tonight and sitting
listen and I understand and what heartburns me the most is for 150 years this fire department has been here this commission has funded it 100% because it was a priority for them for y'all a priority to keep us safe that should not
waver that should be always the priority to start looking for alternative funding fees immediately ely opens the door for what the last gentleman spoke about which I was also part of being with Semino County for 35 years was mergers.
I worked with a lot of these guys and gals that are out here in this fire trucks right now for many years and the last thing that I ever talked about when we got on scene was a merger because it started problems. I don't want to see it. I liked red fire trucks. I used to drive yellow and orange fire trucks
until they finally caved in and got us red fire trucks. But so let's try to do everything we do. If you apply this fee, you are opening the door wide open for a merger for seminal county to come in or you as you're doing your due diligence
as you should to look at this and say, can we do it cheaper? I can take a million dollars out of the fire fund budget right now by just administrative c cost. I know this. You can take you can spread the load of the equipment out across a bigger vast majority of people.
Now, guess what? It costs less because the more people are helping pay for it around the whole county, all Semino County citizens. That's not what you want. You want to keep your fire trucks, ensure they're red, and keep your people doing the right thing that have a homebuilt community fire service. I
looked at the budget. The problem we got really with the budget is why is the fire department's budget increased 26% in the last five years when all the other budgets around about 16%. I mean, I spent the last week tearing this stuff apart, reading and reading and reading
and reading. And now I think tonight, maybe you're talking about it. New station 40. Well, that's not all the existing seminal Sanford city um citizens problem that growth is going to create a cost for me. With you guys approving your line item tonight that
you already voted on, my tax bill went up $102 just like that. Now you're going to add another $143 to it for my house value. So that's $243 for me. Thank God that I spent 35 years in the fire
service and I can afford it. But there are people sitting in this room that cannot afford it. And if my daughter for one, she's a single working mom working for the county, you you tell her she's got to pay $200 or $300 more. It's it's a big deal for her. Well, it'll be a big deal for me, but and the other thing I
I'll just ask that you take a look at real quick before I leave is the transfer out fund. I called today and I appreciate the city I think the mayor's secretary called me back and talked to me about it, but why has that fund since 2019 increased 300%.
It's the only line item in the budget that has increased dramatically like that and it stares out like a glare a glow if you take and pull up the budgets and look at them. whatever that transfer out fee. I know if you Google it, it says that it's basically a a fund that you guys can set up and put all your little projects in for around the city
in your own little districts. That's probably what it is. Well, if that's not what it is, then I understand. I understand there's other stuff to it, but you have to look at that and explain it out when people like me look at it and read it and like that's way out of control. And last little quick point, 35 was here this morning. They had all the information
wrong. They said that the city, most city um citizens were only going to see a $35 increase. Well, you notice they got in a truck and drove off after I called them, told them it's going to be $135 per person. So, good luck. Tough choices and thank you. Thank you. Okay, the
the um Miss Lindsay, make sure I got this right. The transfers out is mostly to um debt payments for police cars and to capital. Correct. Which would include the fire department capital.
Yes. For debt service. It is for capital fund. It is also for Okay, hold on. I was going to repeat what she had said. It's also for Mayfair Marina um
maintenance cost that the city has to bear because it is our property. Um and there's one oh the the CRA for the um gold IRA. Okay. So the debt service
capital public art public art CDBG lie CDBG to cover um unfunded costs from the federal government on that and lie. Okay. Lie heat. Same thing. Cemetery. Yeah. Cemetery
cemetery. Marina and Mayfair. Mayfair. Okay. She you also said the CRA Goldsboro in the Goldsboro. Um, and since it's come up a couple of times, we have looked at the, um,
compared the cost of merging with the county a couple of times. Um, it's been a while since we've done that. It's always come back that it would cost residents of Sanford more if we merged. Um, it has always come back that it would
cost the city of Sford residents more if we merged. Um, I believe the county is going to do another calculation and let us see what it would look like now. Um, but we have never done that because it would cost us more if we were with the county.
But when we do that study again, I want to know if it's short-term, more expensive, but long-term, maybe less expensive. Let's get the whole picture. Derek Robertson. Derek [Music] Hello, my name is Derek Robertson, uh 102 East Coleman Circle in Sanford. I've
lived in Sanford almost 20 years. Uh I'm not a great speaker like some of these other people out here. I'm just a family man. Uh I work two jobs to pay my bills and my taxes go up every year. This is absolutely a tax. Um, we the water bill
like this guy paid was talking about, we we pay a lot for that in Sanford. Sanford's a place for people who don't have a lot of money. This isn't Winter Park, you know, we're we're Sanford. We're a place for families where you can come and you can maybe buy your own home, be a homeowner, you know, get a
little slice of the pie. And uh I think that you guys should that budget that you just approved, I wish I had spoken then because if I feel like this money could come out of that. You know, we're all having to tighten our purse strings right now. You know, there's uh massive inflation, cost of groceries, cost of
living, cost of gas, car insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance. And now you add this on to us. I think the vibe is everyone in this room other than the elected body themselves are opposed to this. And uh I do support law enforcement and the fire department and
all our first responders and everybody who works in the city. A lot of nice folks. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Ashley Vorhees. Hello, Ashley Vorhees, 102 East Coleman Circle, Sanford, Florida 32773.
Um, the man that just spoke is my fiance and partner. We live in the same house. I too also work two jobs. So between us we work four jobs to support our two children. Um basically my grievances is everything is really expensive. I mean a
lot of other people have done more research and and I appreciate those people because it's opened my eyes even more hearing them speak. We all as citizens have to stand in the grocery store and make really hard decisions. And when you speak about
budgeting and budgets being tight and needing to find money here and there, well, that's what we're dealing with on a daily basis, but on a much smaller scale. And our salaries are a lot less than some of the government workers who are also making these, you know, tight
budget um cuts for cities and, you know, public places. So for me adding this additional tax is unacceptable because uh quite frankly we can't afford it. Um, and then it's as other people have kind
of pressed on here tonight, it's when does it end? Is okay, we we do this, but then when's the next thing going to come up and all this and and for me it's like living in Florida and in the swamp and this is no disrespect, but it's it's really like how many fires are there?
You know, like what are we talking about? And when there are fires, I've only lived in Sanford for eight years. The only one that I've ever heard of, and like I said before, I don't have a lot of education on this matter, but from what I know from my personal experience, was the one that happened
down in uh the historical district. Um, two historical homes burnt up and were not put out. They were just kind of controlled. And so for me, it's like I look at that and I'm like, well, what am I actually paying for? You know, I see
them all get in their truck and they go out to Tropical Smoothie Cafe in their big fire truck. How much does that cost? You know, I I mean, I'm just saying it's just if we the budget, you can find money somewhere. you can make little changes
here and there like we all have to do on a much smaller level at home in order to afford things instead of just being like, "Oh, well, we'll just, you know, make this assessment and we'll have all, you know, the residents pay extra and then that'll make up for the money that
we don't have." And I don't have that in my life. I can't look and say, "Oh, well, who's going to pay for this?" I have to come up and maybe get a third job to figure out how to pay for things to put food on the table for my children. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Jodie. Sweet. Jody Sweet. Um, Mayor, we again I I I appreciate all the champions. You all are our bosses. We We can take it. We can take it. But I don't
I don't appreciate the disrespect to our hardworking men and women who lay their lives down on the line. I I totally get what you're saying. Just just you just saying that they that they're Okay. Okay.
Jody Sweet. Okay. Come on up, please. Hi, Jodyu. 26 Dresden Court, Sanford, Florida 32771. I don't actually have anything prepared like everybody else did, but the fact
that that they were saying that this is not a tax, but y'all are sticking it on our tax bill and then threatening us with tax leans and actually taking our property if we don't pay this special assessment. I worked as a parallegal before I became
disabled. And I mean, I'm making like half of what I used to make getting disability. It's like nothing. We can barely afford what we have right now. And now our property taxes are going up. You want to hit us with this extra uh
special assessment, which is not if you're going to hit us with a tax lean for not paying it, you want to call it a special assessment, bill it separately. You can't take it as a tax then. You can't tax lean for that. I was a parallegal. I worked in condo and
association law and homeowners associations. Yeah, special assessments. We could lean for those. But that was part of our declaration. Where can this Why is this assessment suddenly becoming a taxable
thing that y'all can take our homes when we work hard? We worked really hard to have what we what we have now and we're still working hard to get it. We have had to cut so much out because of me
becoming disabled. I'm lucky to even be standing here right now. I've had so many close calls and surgeries that my poor husband has had to live through and just the medical bills now on top of that as well. It's crazy. How do you expect all of us to
come up with this money? I'm sure half the people here are on fixed incomes. Where are we supposed to get this money? I can't work. My husband's already been told, "Oh, you're already making as much as you can where you work." And that's
total crap, by the way, because he puts in a lot of hours and they have them on a salary that is nothing. So, we can barely afford what we have. and and I just don't understand how y'all are threatening to take our homes now for not wanting to pay a special
assessment that y'all are trying to make it to a tax and then of course increase that every year on us as well. I that's all I have to say. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Bruce Tumman.
[Music] Good evening. My name is Bruce Truman and my family bought our Sanford house back in 1979. 306 Laclo Drive, Sanford, Florida. And over the years, I have inherited the homestead. After graduating from UCF, I
started my engineering and political career down in South Florida. elected to the city of North Florida commission 2002 2006 serving as vice mayor and school board member of the nation's first city one charter high school and back then North Florida were one of the
first municipalities to create this fire assessment fee it's a tax it really is um it went to the Florida Supreme Court who allowed a proportional percentage of our brave firefighters and pyramided costs to be used as his fee north
already hired a very expensive consultant who stated it was 2080. But which is fire and which is public safety? As a licensed fire protection engineer, I understand how hard it is for our brave firefighters
um especially when you talk about lost structures, but is this tax fair? And also, are you also going after the property insurance carriers for firefighting fees? this additional tax is the easy way out
for you guys. It really is. That if we can vote you guys out, we probably would. Unfortunately, you're all leveling a tax or this assessment on all properties, even those properties that are unable to vote for you all. I'm not homesteaded,
so I can't vote for you all. So, can you say uh taxation without representation? especially if I don't pay your tax, you're going to take my property away. Please collect all taxes fairly and spend them wisely. Thank you. Thank you, Bruce.
Okay. So, sir, can you go next? Kelly Scambati. Uh, I'm at What is my address today? Sorry, my time. Somewhere in Sanford. Somewhere in Sanford. Correct. Um, I
actually have multiple properties in Sanford, so I'm a landlord and I would hate to go up on the rent on my tenants because of this tax, but more than likely that's exactly what would happen. I know you guys put up a fiscal plan. I'll take it I'm going say probably 50% of people don't understand what a fiscal
plan looks like. I used to work for Vanguard in the fiscal planning department and the fact that you guys are reflecting a change in your fire line which went up again like the gentleman said about 26% increase and the fact that you guys aren't
reflecting that this tax will be on top of that additional cost or would it remove as a as a tagline because you either get to collect the taxes for the fire department or you're going to charge this fee. You're not clearly explaining that to your residents, which
is I I think a travesty for most of these people that may not understand what a fiscal plan is, how hard it is, how much work you guys put into it. We greatly appreciate your hard work. I honestly believe that. But being able to place a lean, and I've purchased tax
leans. I've also had my father who didn't know he was receiving a tax lean and you guys sold his tax lean and I had to go out and buy it because he didn't know that he didn't pay the taxes on time. So, I mean, and the fact I'm also
on the deed and the notice was never sent to me is another conversation at that point. So, I need you guys to be proficient in regards to how you speak to your residents to understand what a fiscal plan looks like. You just told the residents, "Hey, it's out there
online. Just go look it up." There's no drill down online regarding that fire line item. There's no drill down breaking down what that cost is in reflection to what the additional cost would bring. Look, I'm all for firefighters. I have many friends that
are firefighters and police officers here in Sanford. Look, you guys, I don't think everyone understands the role of the firefighter in our department. They not only take out fires, they also come in when someone is sick or ill. They are
the first point of contact well before any ambulance shows up. They have kept my neighbors alive for a very long time. I do believe they res deserve the resources as long as they're the ones getting it. But again, I need you to
clearly explain and express and market. And I believe these people should have a right to vote for what you're talking about before you guys have already decided on which direction you're going on this bill. Again, I thank you for my time. I thank everybody here today cuz I
love the passion of Sanford. I mean, I came here from up north after the Trayvon event. And telling people I moved into Sanford. Being an African-American person was probably not the best thing, but all I see is love in this room. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you guys. And go Phillies. Okay. So, um, by show of hands, how many more people are going to want to speak? Mayor, are we including the online? Mhm. Are we including online? Just the people in the room.
Okay. Okay. So, thank you. Um, by show of hands, I may get myself in trouble here. Well, you're trying to be democratic. I don't mind listening to everyone. Me?
Excuse me. I want to ask our attorney if I can say something. Yeah. Excellent points. I don't I don't disagree with them. And trust me, uh, we all appreciate you being here when you'd probably much
rather be somewhere else. All right. Okay. Good. Okay. All right. Our attorney has told me what I was about to do was a bad idea. Keep out of trouble.
So, uh, a after them after we're done, I'll say what I was going to say. Okay. So, um don't say it any Okay, we'll move on. Okay. So, who um if
whoever else would like to speak if you want to come up one at a time, I would ask that we have heard a lot of things. I think I'll speak for myself. I I definitely feel the emotion. I
definitely feel the the concern. Um I would like to if there specifically if there is new things to add rather than just repeating we would appreciate that but I will stay here as long as possible for everyone to hear to speak. People
have the right to express whe ma'am. Ma'am, what what you didn't hear me say as you started talking was I would stay here all night so everyone can speak. Ma'am,
[Music] can I speak? That that's not what he's saying. Speak. It's okay. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to create a line. If you want to get a line in front of this officer and we'll be able to see how many people actually want to speak and we can move
this on a little faster. Thank you. Go ahead. Quiet. I want to talk. Okay. We we need everyone to be quiet so we can hear the comments. Please go ahead, ma'am. Okay. Good evening, Mayor Wood and
Commissioners. Quiet, please. Hello. Hold up. My clock is going. Hold on. Stop it. Good evening, Mayor Woodri, and commissioners. My name is Lette and I am a home owner at 2510 Laurel Avenue. I'm
here tonight to speak under resolution number 2025-3414. establishing the city's budget and capital improvement. First, let me say clearly, I support our firefighters. They're essential to our safety and they deserve the staffing tools and equipment needed to protect our community. But I
cannot support a budget that includes passing a new fire service fee to homeowners. We already paid property taxes which is supposed to fund essential services like fire protection. Asking to pay again through a separate fire assessment is essential double taxation and unfairly shifts the burden
onto family seniors and fixed incomes and working people who are already struggling just to put food on the table and the rising cost of groceries. Florida Supreme Court and Lake County versus water oak management held the fire assessment can only be lawful if they meet two standards. They must
provide a special benefit directly to the property and they must fairly opportun I can't say that word. I'm sorry. Aortion whatever. Simply call this a fire assessment is not enough. The city must show that homeowners will receive a
unique property benefit beyond what the general public gets and that the course is distributed fairly. Right now it looks more like a second tax laid on top of property tax. And that makes it questionable whether this assessment even meets the water oak standard. There
are also other solutions. Federal state programs award millions every year for fire service. FEMA safer grant funds firefighter salaries and benefits which funds firefighter salaries and benefits. FEMA assistance to firefighters grant covers vehicles protection gear and
equipment. HUD community development block program can support public safety infrastructure. Florida also provides assistance on EMS trust fund grants. These programs are designed to cover the very cost the city says it needs without
billing home owners twice. Other Florida cities have secured millions this way without adding extra fees to their residents. Sanford should pursue these funding opportunities and adjust the existing budget before creating another financial burden for us as homeowners.
For this reason, I urge that to amend resolution 2025-3414 to remove the fire assessment and assist direct staff to aggressively pursue available grants and fairly funded sources. This is the responsible path and both supports our firefighters and
protect our homeowners. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, [Applause] sir. Hello there. My name is Ernesto Maldonado. I reside at 101 Oakidge Court
here in Sanford and um according to lobbyist I'm sorry legislative broor um Tallahassee had money for mental health police uh seminal state um a million dollars for the airport but no money for
for you guys. Okay. Um but shouldn't you guys had money funds allocated already? Just curious. No answer. I didn't understand your question. I just asked you. Don't shouldn't you
have any money allocated for situations like this? You know, we we have a budget that Okay. So, wasn't this included in the budget? No. As I mentioned at the beginning, this was a forwardlooking
um option to make sure we can continue to maintain equipment at the fire department. Okay. So, um I'm a former housing commissioner here in Sanford. Um I just got to say one thing
over here in the letter. It says send no money. This is not a bill. It sounds a little more like it's a threat since since it says uh you know if you don't pay up we're going to take your house. Okay. So, and I
noticed one thing out of seven of you. Three of you haven't said one word. Please stop rubber stamping. Thank you. Yes, sir. Sean Smith, 2772 Riverlanding Drive here in Stanford. Um
I believe in keeping a long memory. So, I looked through the budget this weekend. 2026 revenue um just from tax receipts, property taxes, utility tax, everything projected to be 64.86 million on the same budget, which anybody can
look up online. Uh 2022 revenue was 42.3. So, we're up 22 million in 4 years. Makes sense. City's growing. You guys should be bringing uh money in. That's 53% increase in tax receipts. You're asking for 2.13 million from this
item. Uh so naturally I'm looking at we're talking about the city needing more money. What are you currently spending it on? The city commission, these five people here, your travel and pdeium costs over the last four years are up 935%.
Uh conference and seminar costs are up 627%. The city manager's office is hiring somebody in the 2025 budget at a salary of 225K. To be fair, you could you did there were some other salary positions that were reduced, but that's a $225,000 salary. Uh medical insurance
is ridiculous. The communications office, 5% of the budget, uh it's up 85% over this 4-year period. There's two people in the office, according to the budget. Salaries are up 158% over four years. Medical insurance
is up 221% over four years. Uh there's additional salary pays for these two people up 336%. Uh the department for economic development is up in total cost over four years 244%. There's three people in the office. 81%
increase in medical uh insurance. Professional dues that taxes pay for are up 92%. Promotional activities up 688%. other contractual services up 587%.
Again, this is over four years, not just one year over another, four years from 2022 to 2025. Uh, community relations, two people, 142 4.2% increase. Uh, city clerk's office
has three people. Repair and maintenance, 3,300% over four years. Uh, human resources, five people, 38% budget increase. Salaries are up 59%, promotional activities up 183%. Other charges and
obligations up 136%. Finance and accounting department. Uh, their travel and pdeium costs are up 1,244% over four years. Um, let's see. IT salaries are up 122%. Uh, the IT
department makes sense. A lot of money coming in. City's growing. You got to get things kind of modern and there's a lot of things going on. Medical insurance and the IT department's up 200% probably because you hired a lot of people. Uh purchasing department 339%
salaries are up 300% in that department. Uh let's see. So we're talking about fire. Uh fire administration is up 73% for nine people. Overtime 1400% probably due to state law. uh travel and prediums
up 54% other at the end of the day is there money to be found elsewhere can you are we spending it the most efficiently appreciate you all being here being late thank you for everybody else being here the budget's online it's hard you know
it beat watching the Gator game I can tell you that but um like and I'm not opposed to a like the tax kind of makes sense because you know there's properties are paying it and the firefighters got to cover everybody. But
if you're going to raise the tax, you can't say there's a huge amount of money coming in over the last four years because the city has grown since 2020. The money's there and I know y'all can find it. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause]
Joe, 128 plus Woods Court, uh, resident of Sanford for 12 years now. Um, I don't have a bunch of metrics and numbers and stuff like that. I wasn't even going to talk in the beginning, but just hearing this and kind of seeing some of the things transpire, I feel like we should all get a voice up here. Um, you know,
the biggest thing I hear, it's I think the biggest thing we all have trouble with is how this came out to begin with, how we just received this demanding letter of almost a threatening way of give us money or I take your house. But then you have the audacity to sit up
here and say that we're your boss. So that makes no sense to me and I think makes no sense to a lot of residents. If you want to tax existing citizens, I I I don't see why you would do that. Now you chose to build out Lake Mary and create
chaos on that road for the everyday people now that have to drive up and down and now you want to tax us for it as well. Um there's just not a lot of sense from the people that we've voted to be in these seats and it's very questionable. Um
I don't see how this should be a cost for existing Sanford residents. I think that Sanford is a place that has allowed a lot of people to have affordable housing in a very good county and it has a great infrastructure. It has a lot of good things and you're watering that
down with doing things like this. Um, I'm hoping and I think the residents here are hoping that this is an actual discussion that you're going to take behind closed doors and figure out the vote and this isn't a formality that I think a lot of us already think it is. Um,
and I'll be honest with you, I mean, mayor, you didn't even have the letter when we got here. that that is extremely scary, embarrassing, and disrespectful that we've all taken time out of our lives to be here and you didn't even educate
yourself on the letter that you sent out to every resident sitting in this room. That's all I got to say. Thank you. Okay, one. Thank you. Hello again, Leon Ketchnney, 216 South Elm Sanford. I I enjoyed seeing the pictures from your last vacation.
Oh, just stay tuned. a week from a month from today. Um I remember my 10th birthday 1962. So I'm Yeah, I'm old. Um I got a raise. I got a 10% raise. My dad raised my allowance from 50 cents a week to 55 cents a week. That was great.
Now I couldn't spend it all in one time. I had to save up from week to week, but I I knew I had to save it. And then I could go to the store and maybe buy a candy bar or something. There were six for a quarter back then. But it was a 10% rate. That's pretty nice. I remember my dad when I was very young taking us and the kids uh to the grocery store. He
had a $20 bill and he would use that $20 bill. That's what groceries were. If he had too much, we put something back. If he didn't spend all the $20, we maybe got six for a quarter candy bars. So, that's what a budget is. You know, you learn to budget. I've been looking at
the uh the city's budget in the last couple years. In the last five years, the other gentleman kind of mentioned it, you've gone up about an average of 12% a year in the general fund. So five years ago, the general fund was taking in 25 million and change. This next year, it's going to take in around 46
million in change. Last year was 40 million. That's a five five or $6 million increase. That's a that's a 12% increase or 11.86 cents. I think the property appraiser said 11.6% raise. You know how much population has gone up in that time? an average of
2.14% per year. So population is going up a little bit, but our taxes are going up because our property value is going up. That's that's a good thing, but the city just ain't budgeting. You got the money, like like the gentleman said, you're just not spending it. And not
you, it's the city. You ought to be holding the city manager and the city department heads their feet to the fire because they are not budgeting properly. They're getting an extra $5 million this year in the general fund. And you want to on top of that you want another two million for a fire assessment fee. I'm a
senior citizen. I'm on a fixed income. Last year my t my uh Donald and you know all those people who do it, they gave me they gave me a bit of an increase, right? I got a two and a quarter% increase in my social security. Two and a quarter%. Last year this and the the garbage fee
that you all charge me went up 4 something%. Storm water stayed the same, but water flow and a bunch of other things, some of them went up up to 10%. You got to live within your budget.
We don't deserve this. You deserve to go back and tell the city to budget properly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Leon. [Applause] Good evening, commissioners. Um, my name
is Pastor Kathy Ramazar. Um, 2707 West Airport Boulevard. As a matter of fact, I um own a couple of properties. I'm not here because I oppose um the safety
at all, but I am here because I want to defend fairness. You guys say that I've heard you say you're working for us, but I think my question tonight because there isn't anything that's been said that I don't agree with except
maybe the punch at our, you know, our firefighters for having a smoothie. But everything else I agree I agree with. So I don't want to repeat it. But one of the things I do want to ask is where are the exemptions for the
elderly? I understand we got to raise the money somehow some ways, but where are the exemptions? We have older people who are on fixed incomes.
And I know that you say it's not a tax, but you're just clothing it in something else. I respect each of you sitting here. I have no disrespect for any of you. But my question is where are the exemptions
for lowincome elderly people who are living from paycheck to paycheck and the threat is what I feel I think is to say that
you will take our homes or their homes. That's not fair. That's not you trying to work out a budget. I really felt like that line in that letter was overstepping very much so.
And we vote you here because we trust that you will do things that will be, you know, helpful for us to represent us. And it's just sad. It's heartbreaking.
You know, where the I know you're saying, you know, the imp the developers. I know Sanford is growing. It's growing everywhere we look. There's buildings going up. And I know you got to come up with more
money. But what about the developers? Are they paying their fair shares? Are they I mean, and you're saying it's not a tax, but
it's Go ahead and finish up. You're saying it's not a tax, but it feels like a quiet one. Mhm. You know, a quiet tax kind of goes in the back door, but then it moves
everybody in the house out. It's a burden. This is a burden. It's a burden for I have a 90 year old mother, a 93 year old grand um aunt,
77 year old sisters. All these people in my lives are on fixed incomes. Pastor, I need you to go ahead and wrap it up, please. So, God bless you. I hope you guys go back to the table with this one. Thank you, Pastor.
I I would like to to point out a lot of the language in the letter is set by state law. We did not sit down and actually write that letter. Okay. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Thank you, Governor. My name is Rick Ramisar and I'm at 2707
West Airport Boulevard. That was just my wife here. And I just want to second the motion that we do have a lot of elderly people in our family. One of them is my mother who is retired on a fixed income. And you know looking at the geographics
in Sanford, there are a lot of elderly people who were retired here who came to Sanford because it was a you know it was a family town and they raised their families here as my mother and father did and raised all of us here. I've been
in Sanford all of my life and I've seen Sanford grow. I remember when Highway 46 was just a onelane highway going into the woods. There was nothing there. So Sanford has grown exponentially, but I never seen anything like this before.
You know, assessment or taxation that came in a letter form that we didn't have to have any vote for or we had no explanation of why the tax was being assessed. And I just want to ask this just one question.
How will this proposed tax increase the impact on different groups of people? Will it disproportionately affect lowincome housing, seniors or businesses? Was there any study done on that? Was there any assessment made on
how it would affect the geographics of some people who are low income and who are elderly and retired here in Sanford? And that's my question. I I think that that assessment should be transparent. It should be on a website and it should
be somewhere where we can look at it and we could get an explanation of why this thing is happening. Okay. And that's all I'd like to say. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, how are you? Hello. My name is Maris Leas and I live
in Sanford and I just wanted to um thank you for give us the opportunity to talk. Uh however, I'm very disappointed with this letter as you say in many of us uh is not
writing very well and there is no clarity. We should be as a college student should be very clear the letter as a high school when we graduate they request that and this is very disappointed for for all of you guys.
I'm sorry. Secondly, I'm opposed to double tax taxation. We already paying property taxes and every year increase home mortgage uh insurance for houses also increase
every year this year was 14%. And for you guys to increase or asking us to pay additional amount for service that we already paying and state taxes is illegal.
Uh the third I wanted to also say to Claudia you know we respect you as a human being and also we request the same from you. I see a body language from you closing your eyes
when someone is talking to you as a speaker we also need respect. you did a couple times when the the microphone was loud like this instead to saying can someone please help and um fix or adjust the microphone for the
citizen. You didn't do that. I appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. And one more thing you also did something that was very or you should shut us instead to asking would you please quiet room so we can listen to you. you shut up and it's very
disrespectful. I appreciate that and I hope this goes into ballot because we all need to vote and double tax that section is not a representation and budgeting. I am a single parent. In
order for me to get a house, I have to to get a requirement for the bank to work at least 75 hours to make the money so I can get the loan. And I did that. It cost me my health, but I did it. I
purchased I couldn't purchase a house in Alamonte Spring on Longwood because it's more expensive. However, I thank God I did it over here in Sanford. I'm living two years here and the first year was an increase on my estate taxes, which it
was not in my budget because I budget as well as a parent. If something is expensive, I have to cut it. And I wish you guys also do that. If there's expenses that is no need, you guys cut it and put it that for the department
the safety. I value our fire department deeply and they have my own respect. But I heard that the money is not going over to them as well because they also going to pay if this go through they going to pay taxes in the property and the fire.
It's not it's not it's not logical to do that to our citizens. It's not logical. So if you guys went to university, you guys need you have to have like management. You need to finish up. Please do it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
[Applause] Victoria Huggin, 2493 Orange Avenue. Listen, everything that's been said tonight, I'm not going to go through all those points again. But most importantly, saying no
to this is not saying no to fire safety. All right? You do work for us. You have been a commissioner and a mayor what 15 years now. I moved here in 2014. You were a commissioner. So you've been here
a long time. You hired Norton. I have sat and Okay. You've had You voted You voted to keep him every time they voted to fire him. Every meeting I
watch online, I have watched each one of you rubber stamp these developments and not raise their impact fees to cover the cost. And that's why we're here. You
did not do your job. You did not do your job notifying us properly. You're not fiscally accountable. So, here's my recommendation because it appears you guys have already rubber stamped this and you're going to do it
anyway. What I say to the citizens, I have consulted an attorney and looked up online. I have a piece of paper here. I'd like everybody's signature on. What we do as citizens when this happens is
we petition our state senator. He was here tonight, Jason. And our house representative, uh, Rachel, I can't say her last name. P L A K O N.
Yes. And we send them a petition and they send I'm going to read it to you. We the undersigned residents and taxpayers of the city of Sanford, Florida, respectfully petition the following elected officials, Jason
Berdau and Rachel Placken to submit a formal request to the Florida Joint Legislative Auditing Committee for the Auditor General to conduct a full comprehensive independent audit of the
city of Sanford's finances. They will then be required to give it to it falls under uh Florida statutes section 11.45 a formal request to JLAC for a
comprehensive audit. That's our only option, guys, cuz they're going to do it. This is taxation without representation. We should be voting on this and you all should be fired.
[Applause] Do you guys need a second to take a break? No, go ahead. We're used to this. So, I'm going to change the tone a little bit. And it's not that I don't support everything that's been said before me, but I just want to pose a
different solution. I wholeheartedly support funding our fire service. What I'm concerned about is that adopting this assessment right now might be premature. The bill that you mentioned earlier that
caused you to consider what the expenses might be is House Bill 929. They have just had listening sessions. They haven't even made the rules yet. And the bill itself says that you are
encouraged to change those shifts. Now, it encourages firefighter employers to implement schedules that do not exceed 42 hours per week. This reflects a recognition at the state and more
importantly an international level that the schedules that they work take a significant health and mental toll on our first responders. That is what the bill is about.
If schedule changes are required in the future future, that could impact staffing models, overtime costs, and how we structure our budget. And we don't yet have a clear picture of what that will mean for Sanford. It has been said that this assessment would provide better coverage. But if
that funding is primarily intended to offset shift shift changes, we need to be honest and adjusting schedules doesn't increase the service. It just changes the schedule of the people
providing the service. Unless we actually add more firefighters at the other schedule, then it would not provide better service. Units available on the street will remain the same. It's important to
remember, most important, that what's really at stake is that our firefighters don't just work here. I have to comment on the smoothie comment and a couple of the others. They live at the station onethird of their lives, and that's only
if they're not required to work mandatory overtime or cover shift call or whatever the case may be. They miss holidays, birthdays, and weekends with their family. The entire reason behind House Bill 929 is to recognize the toll
that it takes both mentally and physically. And just for the record, this is not only about fire calls. 70 to 86% of their workload is EMS, responding to medical emergencies that are often more demanding and stressful than fire
incidents. Sometimes they might need a smoothie, and sometimes that smoothie may be all they get for lunch and dinner between calls. Also, it's much easier to drink a smoothie in a bouncy rescue than a steak and baked potato. I'm almost
done. I'm sure this proposal was not brought forward quickly or easy. And I want to thank all of you for the due diligence that went into it. I also recognize that much of the federal funding that was available in recent years and mentioned earlier has now either expired or been reduced
significantly, which makes local funding solutions all the more important to consider. So my request is this. Let's pause long enough to fully evaluate how h House Bill 929 will affect staffing, operations, and cost. Let's make sure any assessment that is approved is based
on accurate data and truly enhances service while keeping firefighter health and safety at the center of the decision. Thank you. Thank you. What's your name, ma'am? Wendy. Oh, I forgot. Wendy Molton. Thank you, Wendy. Avenue. Uh, Michael Palone, 2607 Mohawk Avenue,
Stanford. Um, thanks for everybody for being here tonight. I know it's it's crazy. You're getting a beat up a little bit tonight. I don't know if it's all necessarily warranted. Um, I'm kind of on the fence about this because like everybody here, I I do support, of course, our EMS, our fire. I'm a nurse myself. I've lived in Sanford for 25
years. Um, I have a brother that a brother-in-law that is a a firefighter. I had an uncle that was a fire chief. I get it. You know, it does cost money. Fire trucks cost a lot of money. Um, you know, but when we get a letter, but I guess what what took me back is when I got this letter. Um, it didn't really
have a lot of details on the why. You're you're you're telling us we got to pay you money, but you didn't go into the why. And that's where I have a problem. You you were really clear on how much we had to pay. You were really clear on what would happen if we did not pay. But you didn't really tell us what you need it for.
And that's what people need in this day and age. We need to know what's going on because we're struggling. So, we need to know why you feel like you need this money from us because maybe it's warranted, but we don't know unless you give us that information. My other issue is the letter was sent out. I got I got
it I think middle of of August. You'd already had I guess one or two meetings by then. I watched them online and I was like, man, I wish I was there. There's only nine people at one of them. Look at how many people here tonight. Send out those letters a little earlier. Let people know so they can come in in smaller groups and it's not so
frustrating and volatile. You know, let people know. Communication and transparency is huge in gathering support for something like this and you need that if you want it to go smoothly. Uh, okay. Let me skip around here. I'm gonna run out of time. Uh, the letter. Yeah, I talked about that. Um, mail the
notices sooner. Sorry, I wasn't really super prepared with the speech. Uh, yeah, the main thing is, you know, again, going about the why. So, you know, you did this study, which is wonderful, and you explain, you know, how you you're going to charge the money and how you figured out this tier one and two and all that, but again, where
was the data letting us know, for example, hey, we don't have enough firefighters to meet quality standards. And whatever those quality standards are, I don't know if they're citywide. I don't know if they're state, if there's a national, you know, bar that you're trying to meet or whatnot, but whatever it is, are response times, are we behind on response times to fire EMS calls? Is
that why you need more money? Are our fire trucks literally falling apart? Is that why you need more money? And as tonight, as we talked about this, mayor, you you yourself said this is not an emergency. It's not a budget emergency. It's not a deficit. It's not a
shortfall. So to me, that says that this really isn't necessary at this time. You're describing a situation that's not an emergency to a bunch of people that financially are in an emergency. Literally, so many of us right now are
struggling to pay our bills. we go to the grocery store and and we get sick. I don't I don't put tur I don't put uh cheese on my turkey sandwiches anymore because cheese is too expensive. I was grocery shopping with my wife the other day and I said, "You know what? We're not buying cheese anymore. I'll just put turkey and mayo on it." But yet I got to come up with $150 or 40, whatever it is
to to pay for the fire that it's not a necessary thing. So please, I just need about 10 more seconds. Just consider these things to the people that you're asking the money from. Okay? understand our situation and understand that we haven't had a lot of time. I know you've had a lot of time to prepare prepare for
this. I just found out about this a couple weeks ago and as many of us did from that letter. Send that letter out sooner so we can be more prepared to discuss with you and and be participants in that process. At a bare minimum, please if if it's possible, do not vote on this right now. If you can possibly
delay this, maybe it's a good thing, but we need more time. Table it, please. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. [Applause] Good evening. I'm Sarah Nettles. I'm a
homeowner at 407 South Summerland Avenue. And I am a single mom with a 10-year-old son at home that I really need to get back to and get him in bed so he can go to school in the morning. I have an issue to discuss that's not on the agenda and I'm asking for permission. I don't know when it's
appropriate to talk. Can I can I move forward? Heard this, but you're already up there. So, if you can do it in two minutes and 30 seconds, go ahead. All right. Perfect. I will cut straight to the chase. All right. So, on my sleepy little street, I've lived there
for over 20 years, which seems surprising since I'm not that old. Um, and I'm four generations from Sanford, so I've got really deep roots here. And something very alarming to our street and our neighborhood just happened. They installed four new street lights without
any prior notification to the residents. These street lights are blaring glaringly right. Not to cut you off, we're aware of the street lights and I'm looking for our public works director. Is he still back there somewhere?
He might have an answer for you already. To him. Sure. And Sarah, I've been to your house. I I totally understand. Mine's the blue. I got the pictures. Yeah, it's it's really horrible. Okay, it's bad. So, can I just say this one thing? Um, I've
gotten to the bottom of who's responsible, who the parties are, and the FPL and Ferraran Construction will not make any adjustments until they get a sign off from the city. Uh, they agree with me that they are completely
inappropriate lights. Um, and they're suggesting shields, but these lights are at least 10 ft taller than all the codes and regulations. And the candle, the candle light, um, wattage is completely off the charts. We don't need them shielded. We just need them removed. We
don't want them. All right. All right. And it's at least $50,000 that they spent on this. So, that's some money that you guys can have for other budget concerns. Well, except that was that spent that. Yeah. That that Mr. Johnson, can you can you speak with
her, please? Thank you. Um, just be um for a second, too, Sarah, I I wanted you to know that I came out there and I visited your street and it does look like a football stadium out there. Um, it it we have been working on
it. We are working with FPL. I know that it's an inconvenience. It is not something that we're ignoring. Um, one of the residents asked for those lights for the safety and and it went overboard. Um, but I I I totally get it. I see you and your complaint is not
being ignored and thank you for your patience. Yeah. All right. I've got to use the restroom. Hi again. Good evening. This is Bahan and I live in 3461 Windsor Lake Circle. I definitely respect all the firefighter
and the police and all they do. I'm not here to oppose anything against them. I just wanted to correct something in the assessment. You call a single home. I really don't live in a single home. I live in a townhouse. So I being with my
letter says I am a single home and I need to pay the letter I received says I will be charged 88.48 this year with the fee allowed to increase by up to 10% every year citywide. This will arise over 2.1
million annually. That is a significant burden on homeowner in top of property tax we already pay. Just to let you know, Luka, your tax property is 1,000 more compared to last year. I received the letter la like this week. I I just
want to know before creating a new fee. I believe the city owes it resident full transparency. How much money is already budgeted for fire protection? What has that money been spent in recent year? what gabics is that makes this extra
charge necessary? And I wanted to know how did you guys pay firefighter before? Because the last time I recall when I called 911, my bill was $850. So that doesn't cover your assessment. And then to let everybody know the
assessment, how much it cost, it came from your tax, the general fund tax. So everything we paying for the study, we didn't even ask for. if we do that one assessment or not. So I would just say please don't vote yes and if you do mean
I am nothing here and I just have to obey. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause] Uh Nate Moore uh 140 Sterling Pine Street. Uh I'll keep it pretty brief. I just want to make one point. Um, I think
if you asked anybody in Sanford, they probably would not want to pay a new assessment, but I think that there are a lot of people that would understand the fiscal and strategic benefit of this.
And I just want to kind of represent them because I don't think that they are that they're not going to show up to a meeting at, you know, 9:00 on a Monday. So, I just want to like provide a voice to those folks that aren't here tonight.
So, with that, I'm going to scadaddle before the fruit starts flying. So, thank you. How you doing? Good evening. Jose Smith, 1213 Crane Island Way. I was going to start this a little different, but uh I
made a prediction over the weekend um and I lost. Was the power ball. Same thing you're doing here. You're making a prediction on what's the outcome of the following year and that just it's not good. So
taxes, where does the money go? Most cities including Sanford collect from property tax, sales tax, state and federal grants, fees, and permit that gets pulled gets distributed across departments, fire, police, parks, public works, administration, and more. Budgets
are political documents. They reflect priorities, not just needs. If I pro protection isn't getting enough, it's not because there's no money. It's because someone chose to put it elsewhere. If city leadership chooses to
place it elsewhere, then fire protection was not a priority. So now, not only are we being asked to pay extra for fire services, but we are indirectly paying extra for everything else, police, parks, public works, and
administration, administrative overhead. By proposing a separate fire assessment, Sanford is essentially admitting, "We did not prioritize fire protection in our existing budget. So now we're asking you to pay more." Yes, homeowners
already fund fire services through general taxes, but then those funds are diverted whether to inflated budgets, discretionary uh projects, administrative expansions, police. City then turns around and says we need a new
fee to cover what should have been funded in the first place. That's not just inefficient, it's a breach of trust. The fire assessment isn't about funding, it's about priorities. Sanford already collects enough revenue to cover
essential services. If fire protection is underfunded, it's because the city chose to place it lower on the list. Asking residents to pay again is not a solution is a symptom of misallocation. We deserve transparency, not a search
charge. And let not let's not ignore the explosive growth in housing development. That growth equates to increased tax revenue. So where's the money going? Lastly, let's be honest. Nonad valorum
fire assessment aren't about response to speed. They're about covering budget ga cap budget gaps created by poor prioritization. If it's mandatory, reoccurring, and funds a core public service, it
functions as a tax in practice. Whether you call it a fee or an assessment, it's still a charge imposed. The city commission often votes in favor of proposals like the fire assessment fee
if it's backed by financial studies, long-term planning goals, like the gentleman here. But what where was the study of long-term planning goals and and neglect assessment repairs conducted and
reference prior to August 5th, 2025? Have one more. Home valuation increased 60% in just four years. Property tax growth between 2019 and
2023, 35% and still growing. extra from residents in tax revenue is there 10% 10 percentage points higher than the US average. Sir, I need you to wrap it up. I will.
Fire station 40 was approved. Correct. Mhm. So the $2 million is where the fire trucks. You approved station 40, but said, "Hey, where are the fire trucks?" That's what happened. No, we bought
those with impact fees. You you also had other other structures, 47 active communities, 2,000 homes developed in that growth. KB Homes, Plute Homes, Toll Brothers,
Beaser Homes, Lanc Handover. Sir, I need you to wrap it up, please. Growth should have been offset. Thank you. [Applause] [Music]
My name is Rick Lander. I live at 2302 Sanford Avenue, Sanford, Florida, 32771. I may speak low because I just finished having a double heart operation. So, there's going to be three quick
questions. Our go the governor is working very hard to get the property tax out of out of uh out so we don't have to pay any more property tax. What are you guys going to do if he gets this
passed up in Congress and through the Senate up there in Tallahassee? What are you going to do when that happens? Number two, I have a security alarm system where if something happens inside
of five minutes, I have a fire department, I have the police department, I have the ambulance at my house. My wife just finished having a diabetic coma and inside of five minutes, I had eight fire people at my
house fixing her up and getting it going. And one other thing is more than water. Five years lived at the house. My water bill for two people was $79. All of a sudden it's now 115
120 and I use the same amount of water. And the response I got was, "Oh, we put a new system in. We put new meters in. So you got to pay for them." Well, uh, that is a bunch of baloney because, uh,
they have they they get they have their money right there and then and we shouldn't have to be taxed on that or even pay for that. That's on them. And and for me, being 76 years old, this extra burden is
getting to be too much. That's it. Thank you, Rick. Um, thanks for your service. I I would like to address the if the state does away with property tax, um, what we have heard is one way to handle that would be a 15 to 16% sales tax and we
would depend on the state for funding for city um, services. uh the m the uh fire assessment could be used to fund the entire cost of the fire department, but we would not have that option for a
police department. So, if property taxes go away, something will have to replace them, sir. We'll be in big trouble. Hi, good evening, uh ladies and gentlemen of the commission. My name is Kevin Sims. I work at um I live at 21101
South Palmetto Avenue. Um, I'm not going to do what everybody's been doing so far tonight. I don't think I need to beat a dead horse anymore than it has already been beat. Um, I would like to thank you for starters for having the forethought to be forward thinking and looking at ways that you want to help fund the fire
department. Um, I am getting ready to hit my 30th year in the fire service here in Semino County. Uh, Chief Radzac, who's running away from me here, uh, 30 years ago I sat next to him in paramedic school. So, I've been in this area for a long, long time. Um, now with regards to
the forethought, Mr. Mayor, you've met said many times that we're not in any form of a uh financial distress of any kind. So, if you were to vote no for this, I'm assuming that business would go on as usual the very next day. Am I wrong? For at least this year.
For at least this year. So, um, all I propose it's a it's a very simple thing. Um, people have mentioned the penny sales tax. Uh, the county commission did not impose that on the citizens. they allowed them to vote on it and they decided that's what they wanted. Um, if there is no uh impending financial doom
that goes with this, I simply suggest it's very simple. You vote no for this, put it out to the public, let us vote for it next year. If we want it, we'll take it and if we don't, we don't. Very simple. Madam Commissioner, you said it and I believe both of you have said on
more than one occasion tonight that you work for us. Well, then actions speak louder than words and you get bonus points for the shirt. Thank you. Um, so far I don't believe that there has been a single person who's come up to this podium to voice
support for this measure. So, it sounds as though one did. Uh, okay. I'll give you one. Okay. Um, so it sounds as though the voice of your constituents has been heard. Um, now it's up to you. Are you going to
listen to them or are you going to forget the actions over the words? That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Thank you. Um Oh, I'm going to wait make you wait just a minute longer because I want to respond to something he said. Of course. Um in ter there unfortunately there's
not a mechanism in state law for this to go to a public vote. We follow the state law in this process. There's there's a mechanism if we want to use property taxes to fund debt to go to the public for a vote. If we want to if the county
wants to do the sales tax, there's a mechanism for that to go to a vote. Unfortunately, in this representative government, we have the decision on this type of of um fee or tax because it really is the same thing is left to to
the commission. So I we we certainly are listening to the opinions of our voters. So So the thing is that if this weren't to pass, there are other measures that are available in the future that the citizens can vote on
to fix this problem. I don't think so. No, there there are not there are none that are direct voter. Anyway, go ahead. Good evening, Breezy Johnson, 909 Magnolia. Um, I understand leadership
and I greatly appreciate yours. My only ask in your leadership tonight is to listen to all the people that spoke and not just tonight, but the many times that we've been coming to these meetings. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.
Great. Is there anyone else that wants to speak on the fire fee? Thank you for admitting it was a tax. Thank you. Okay. I mean, it's it's the definition the state uses which is why we use that.
But we all realize it's money that the city is asking residents to pay. Sir. All right. Um it is ready. Good evening everybody that have um come out here with this major concern. I don't live in Sanford but um I pastor in Sanford.
What's your name? Uh my name is um Pastor Michael Emperado. Uh my pastor on um um 1714 um historic Goldsboro Boulevard. Amen. Um I've been there for
32 years. Amen. And we have done a lot of work there and um as I hear my other brother here. Amen. With the ministry and the work that we do. Amen. Trying to help people. Amen. And um it is to bring them closer. Um it
is to the Lord. Amen. And um it's kind of hard. It's kind of rough. Amen. Especially on on 13th Street. Amen. As it as it um is I seen just a little few changes there in 32 years. Amen. The
only thing they did was they put some pavers down and put some new sidewalks and put some trees and and put some lights. Amen. and and things like that. They're on that street. Amen. So, that's in 32 years that I've been there. Amen.
So, um there's um a lot of responses. Amen. From the fire department. Amen. The rescue. Amen. Amen. They pass by every day. Amen. They're they're working. They Amen. They're doing their job. Amen. But um it is proposing
something like this. Amen. On on the residents, Amen. Um um it's already hard times as it is. I was looking at that word up top right the imposition. You know imposition means opposes you know unfair. Amen. A burden. That's what that
word means. Imposition on that letter head. I received one in the church receive one. But it's just something. Amen. That um that it is the residents and um it is the people here in Sanford. I love Sanford. Amen. Um, I've been here for uh for some years here um with the
people and I go all around. Amen. And and I'm out among the people and um and that's what it's going to take right there to bring us together. But um I pray that it is tonight right there that y'all uh will table this mostly in a lot
of right there. City commissions and county commissioners. Amen. their hearts and minds are already made up of of what you're going to already vote on, you know, but you need to look at the people and you need to look at the surrounding and our environment and everything was
taking place cuz everything everything is going up. Amen. And and um and if you ain't really out there in the field working in the field and then seeing what's taking place um you'll never
know. But um it is I just pray um it is tonight right there that the spirit of God Amen will will right there um change your heart right there and and um table this and then um even like one uh one individual said maybe just table it to
next year and then we just see see what else y'all can do on this matter and um and then I think things will work out um if you just wait amen on this and just listen to these people because their hearts is is um really burdened tonight.
Amen. And I just want to thank you Ready for the time tonight. Appreciate that. Last chance. Anyone else wish to speak? I'm going to let everyone speak that wants to. My name is Bob Tumpac. live at 104
Maplewood Drive here in Sanford 32771. I am absolutely impressed with how much heartfelt feelings I heard tonight when I was riding down here with my wife. The weather was pouring down rain and I
said, "Donna," I said, "I I bet there won't be half a dozen people here." And I was thoroughly amazed by the turnout with the weather being as poor as it was. And it it was truly
inspiring that so many people had come forth and and pleaded their case about how they were struggling and how we needed to uh spend our money as best we
could to make do with what we needed. I I've lived in Sanford for 45 years. I've worked for the power company for 50 years. And uh it's it scares me when I watch the growth
that's happening in Sanford because I I wonder about the fire department, but I think we're beginning to outgrow our utilities. There's going to come a point where our water can't supply all the apartments we're building. Our
wastewater can't supply it. We We're going to run into road problems and and lots of problems. We we need to be careful that we don't let these developers out strip out our utilities and we have
to use these assessments to back up some of these shortfalls that are going to happen. The fire department is just one, but we're open a Pandora's box that we may not be able to put the lid back on.
And uh I I I'm really impressed with the people in Sanford. I've I've only lived here 45 years, so I my I can't be say I was born here, but I certainly love this town. And I want the best for it. And I
don't want to have to watch people in grocery stores having to put stuff back on the shelf because they have to pay for a fire service that some developer has developed land out there and they need equipment to reach a fourstory
building when most of the people who are paying the bills are living in little single level houses. Thank you very much. Thank my name is Greenley 26 25 pretty
But me personally, I have air condition. [Music] Thank you. [Applause] Is there anyone else that wanted to speak? Okay, then I'm going to close the public hearing.
Um, I would start off by saying that no one up here is your enemy. Not one. And we are certainly not your enemy on social media. Mhm. Um I know I know we have people who love
as soon as any comment is made to find all the negative things they can say about us or about the city. But I am very proud of the city and the work that we do and I will stand by
every decision I've made. Now, some of you have threatened threatened votes. I don't make decisions based on whether I'm going to be reelected or not. That's that's for people who who really want
this job really badly for themselves, not want the job for the city. Right. So, as always, I will continue to make decisions for the city. Now, when we started this process back in October of
last year, maybe sir, um, you know, being proactive, which we're often accused of not being proactive, to look and see how can we make sure that in the future we can fund the fire department.
I don't know why firefighters are going around saying they don't get the money um because this can only be spent for the fire department. Um, but when we look at that, we look at, you know, we could fund the entire cost of the fire department, the whole
almost not the whole cost because some of it's EMS, but you know, $15 or $16 million, I think it would have been an average of seven or $800 per home. And we said, no, let's not start there. Let's let's look at just setting it to
capital, okay? And and work from there. You know, in the future, we may need to fund the entire fire department from this this assessment. Maybe we don't, but this would be a place to start. But back in
October, we did not know everything we know now. We did not know that the county was going to have three tax increases. Um, we didn't even know what our budget was going to look at at that look like
at that point when we started the process. We couldn't send the letters out until we had gotten far enough along in the process. Again, state law says when things have to happen. Um, and I'll own that we should have sent something else with a letter explaining it. I will
I will take full responsibility for that one. But looking at it now, as we have said, we're not in a budget crisis. The people who have said, "Oh, we've mismanaged and now you got to come back from marrying." That's not true.
If this were to pass, we would actually be able to fund some extra things in the fire department that we were putting off. But at this point in time, I question if this is the right thing to do. And I will pass it on to the rest of the
commission. I'm I'm ready to speak. I am. I I I I am. Um I wrote down every comment that I could. Morgan, Jean, John, Connor, Yamala, Daniel, Ashley, Judy, Bruce, Kellis,
Aset, Ernesto, Sean, Leon, Kathy, Ramasar, Hector, the pastor from Riverwalk, Vanessa, John, so on and so so forth. Um I'm just as passionate about you, about this as you all. Um, Mr. Donaldson said when he looked out to the audience, he said everyone in this
room feels this effect. That means everyone because your mayor is a teacher. He gets the same feed that you all get. I do firmly agree that the city should have, could have, and in the future we need to do better with
communicating with our residents about how we do these things. There are meetings that we've had that we've communicated. We put information out. Yes, we can and we will do better. But there are some people who are at these meetings that got up to speak. They have
the same access to public records, to the the meeting agendas as everyone else. You all may have got the letter, but let's take some ownership in in ourselves, too, because there are people who got up to speak, which I totally agree with everyone that had to say that
come to every single meeting. Again, I echo what the mayor said. This was our attempt to be proactive. We are always said we are reactive. We do not think of things. So we were trying to think of a way that we could think about the
future. But I it it's so easy to say cut the expensive things until it's time to cut the expensive things. Right. I totally understand what everybody is saying about the jobs. I am a city
commissioner who works three jobs. I gave up my position at the city to take this position. So I take it very seriously. I care about what it is that you have to say. I haven't heard anyone say that they want this. A lot of times the decisions that the commission has to
make is not what the people have to say. I agree with the mayor. I think that this is something that we just we we thought we were doing the right thing and maybe it's not the right thing and we should take it off the table.
[Applause] I don't I'm not gonna I don't have to say a lot. You guys said enough for us to be able to get understanding and like both of them have said um we didn't look at it like this. Uh and all of us are
going to be affected just like you guys. We know we're not going to make everybody happy, but we know we need to look at this in another way. So, I agree with you guys as well that we need to be able to look at this and do something different than doing I won't vote yes tonight for sure. So, we need to find
another way. I I'm a little I'm a I'm a little uh struggled here. Are either of you all going to make a motion? Well, I don't have a problem with making a motion, but I don't want to speak before it's for before we have
discussion. You can make a motion if you want. I will make a motion to deny this. But at first I will say I do not like the disparaging remarks made against our staff
made against the dedicated professionals that help put this together. You can bash us up here all day long. I don't care. Okay. I've got 30 years of working for the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Okay. I did 18 years of
volunteering at Simon High School here in Sanford. I got bashed everywhere I've been. Okay, I get it. I take it. That that comes with a job. That comes with our $24,000 a year salary we get sitting up here. Okay.
I do not like the fact that you disparage the people that put hard time and effort into putting these budgets together. They go through them. They go through them tightly.
The fire chief sitting here every year comes to us and asks for more staff, more equipment, more everything. And we almost always find a way to make it happen. Is that not true, Chief? We are not in a deficit. We are not in a
crisis. We are looking for a way to help fund the fire department and ensure that it remains as good as it is. And my desire and hope as a city commissioner since I've been here is to get our
public safety personnel being the highest paid in this county and one of the higher paid public safety personnels in Central Florida. We have accomplished that now with our police department. We are working on that with our fire
department. That is all done through negotiations and union contracts. It's not set by anybody up here. Okay. There's a process that we have to follow for everything we do. Even this ridiculous letter I got in the mail. I
hated it when I got it. But we had to follow the law. We could only send you what the law said and it had to have the proper verbiage. Is that not true, Miss Green? That is correct. Okay. And we tried to modify it. Yes. And we tried to modify it. We tried
to put some stuff in there and it's still I said earlier at the workshop which I don't think hardly but anybody was here. I thought we did a horrible job communicating this as usual. That's just the way government works. Communication
and government are just they're oxymorons. Okay. We have hardworking staff that look for every dime they can from every outlet they can. A lot of people read things and they see things and they think that we could use this or do that,
but at the end of the day, we have a hired professional at the end of this DAS that says that's legal, that's not legal, that's a good idea, that's not a good idea, you're open yourselves up to this and that and so forth. And it is
incumbent upon us to listen to her. We don't always have to agree with her, but it is incumbent upon us to listen to her and make decisions to keep this city from facing any kind of legal ramifications of decisions we make. And
that is something all of us have to think about constantly. We have to follow constantly. So I I again I'm going to say that I'm going to make a motion to deny this. Okay. The people have spoken. Please let us finish our job here and
then y'all can cheer and and and everything else later on. But let us finish this job tonight. And thank you for coming out and thank you for your passion. Okay? This isn't rubber stamped. This is a process. Everything we do is a process. We have had meetings
coming up to this, but they were a process. We didn't fully discuss or vet all of this until tonight because that wasn't part of the process until tonight. That's why all of y'all got a special invitation. That's why all of y'all got uh notices on social media.
That's why we put notices out through the media, which I guess is left. Um so everything we do is a process. Everything we do has legal ramifications and everything we do has to follow Florida State statute. That's what we
did here. That's what we always do here. And we always do the best we can to have a fully staffed public safety uh unit, both both police and fire. the best
staff we can for public works, the best staff we can for this building, the best staff we can for utilities. We do the very best we can. We we have had to increase salaries across the board over the last few years, even based on the new minimum wage law, um minimum wage
law. I had to fight for that a couple years ago to raise salary for that. Those of you wondering what all the money has been in the increase in the public safety funds, a lot of that is salary. Mhm. A lot of that is salary. This commission that sits here today
uh minus our our new friend uh Commissioner Thomas has fought hard to get the salary for our public safety and all of our staff up to par. Okay. So, those of you that went through the fine tooth comb of the
budget, yeah, you saw some increases in there, but they were much needed. We were a very poorly paid city. Okay. But this group up here has fought hard to make it better. And you know what comes along with that?
What comes along with that is better qualified employees and employees who come to work every day and and want to give us the best they can. Okay? That's what we continue to fight for here. And the same with this this fire fee. The
fire fee was for us to make sure that our fire department always has the very best equipment we can provide them. They are constantly having to get new gear, new trucks, and just like your homes have gotten more expensive to run, so is
this fire department. So is our police department. So is this building. So my motion is to deny this. And that's it. I second. Further discussion. Uh, Commissioner Austin said so much of what I wanted to say, so now I can be
shorter. Just say ditto done. Ditto done. Um, this this all took me back to times when I've been out there as a citizen like you have, going to other commission meetings and having my voice heard. So, it's it's nice in a way
to be on this side of it and hear you doing the same thing. And I really really appreciate that. Um, I agree that I wish we could have done outside the legal with the letter and made it just so much simpler and easier to read and understand, but yeah,
we had to do certain things legally. Uh, I would love for us to have done it sooner as well because as soon as we had that letter ready to put out and we had done earlier things, we were all up here thinking it's nobody's going to pay attention to this until they get that letter in their hands. And sure enough,
here you are. So, um, when I was campaigning for this position, I spent a lot of time thinking about trying to think long term and not just bandating things. So, as Commissioner Austin was saying and the mayor was saying and everybody else up here really, um, this
kind of thing does make me think it's trying to think long term. What do we need in the future? Capital improvements, not just bandating things for the chief and his staff. But here we are. Um, I looked at this and thinking if I I am a citizen, I am
paying for this like the rest of you, what would I see as my options? What are our options? And the way I see it is we could pass it as is and try to focus on the fact that it is long-term. um more apartments are paying more, the nonprofits are contributing, it's more
equitable, or we can fail this and evaluate this merger with the county. Uh which does sound like we might end up paying more, but I still want to explore the possibility of maybe a long-term savings there. So, I'm not going to give up on that. Another option might be fail
it and evaluate our budget with some third party help. Now, I've looked at the budget like the one guy came up here and said in detail trying to figure out where we can still make some changes here and save some money and wiser heads than mine have said, you know, we're barely able to cover the expenses we
have, but we do have a balanced budget. So, there's that. Another option would be let's delay it as we've been talking about until maybe next year, which would do a couple of things. Number one, let the citizens recover from the county tax
increase. And number two, give us more time and you more time to understand this, to explain it, to do a better job communicating it given what we have to do legally. So option D is my
preference, which would mean we're going to deny it tonight, give it some more time to be absorbed, and revisit it next year. Right. So, so in terms of revisiting it, if we deny it tonight, we are all the
way back to the very beginning of the process, the whole process all over again. So, a whole new study, another fee to your consultant, right? So, she help us. Okay. How many times? Okay. Um,
Tracy or attorney, we we had a number of letters come in. Do we need to identify them or read them? I would go ahead and identify and and read the letters. How many do you have, Mayor? Well, I've got two, but we had many more. I think I have 10, but some of them
we've all gotten. I did give you all some in your agenda packet. Yeah, I got those. And I have some extra that came in. And then the mayor has a handful of emails that I received as well. So, what do we need to do? I would go
ahead and identify and you could summarize the contents of the letters. Karen Ash says that the city manager and the mayor need to go um because we do not know what we're doing. Um although they also didn't get it quite
right about what we're doing with the survey on um permitting. Um Mark Fuller is against it. He bought his house when it was affordable and does not want costs to go up.
Um, those people were here and spoke. Who else do we have? Angelie Williams, masters in social work, voiced her concern about the imposition and collection. Uh, increase in cost would impact some of the citizens with low incomes who are currently struggling to make ends meet
in the present economy. according to the proposal, a lean will be placed on the property, yada yada. Pretty much the same thing. Um, she did suggest adjusting the rates if somebody's over 65 or disabled. So, we've heard that. Okay.
Did you get any goals? In addition to what you already Okay. And we got a letter from Donaldson Woody, but he spoke. Yep. Saying what he said. We got one from Amy Gold Ortiz.
is currently retired on a fixed income and questions for necessity and fairness. Um, where's this one? Aaron King sent the form letter that was passing being passed around about it being double
taxation. Um, regressive. We haven't looked at alternative funding and voters should be allowed to vote on it. Um, when Rogers Law, I don't understand that one at all. Um,
Carol Barnes says, "Let the county take it over. Winter Springs, Castleberry, and Alamont did look into private ambulance service to do the transporting of medical calls. American Bridge Advisors is against it.
Okay. Robin Johnson, same form letter as the others. And did you get Jamaica last? Okay. The attorney says we're good. Okay. All right. So, any further discussion? No. All in favor? I
I. Any opposed? Passes unanimously. Thank you very much for going through the process with us. Um, thank you for uh setting a record for number of people at a public hearing while I've been mayor. Um,
[Applause] and what the attorney would not let me do is, you know, there were times when I was out there, and I always wish there were little lights up here that would tell you which way people were leaning, so
you would know whether you still needed to come up and talk some more or you you figured you had won the case and you could stop. But I was not allowed to tell you what direction my light was pointing. So, Thank you very much. You're welcome.
Thank you all for coming. We still have a meeting. Thank you so much. Thank you all for coming. We still are leaving. We still got things to do. We're going to get to the boring stuff now. There's still more work to do, right? You all can stay. No, let's stay out on us. Everybody is
okay. Is this intermission? We still got meeting to do. We still have a meeting, ladies and gentlemen. Our meeting is not over. John, [Music] I need a nap.
Victoria. Okay. So, we're up to citizen participation, right? Okay. Somehow I thought this was the reason I did that whole thing was I thought it was in regular items. Okay. So, um
is there a Michael Felbur here? Michael Felber sticking out or Martin de Brriscu. Okay, neither of them are here. Um, we'll move into citizen participation.
Is there anyone wish wishes to speak on any item that is not on the agenda? Mr. Spore, I believe you wanted to. How we doing? Good. Very well, sir. Chase, 436 Scott Avenue, Sanford,
Florida. Don't shush them. You'll get yelled at. Last Thursday, at the very end of the three-hour, much like tonight, planning and zoning meeting, minutes after I left the room, the commission passed a motion to reconsider the conditional use
approval for 2019 Park Avenue. I bring this matter to you today frustrated and disappointed with how this process continues to unfold. From the beginning, I've done what a citizen is supposed to do. I've invested
time, my resources to present my case. I took the property that was being foreclosed on, had been in code violations for nearly a decade, and brought it back into compliance in 45 days. I prepared a detailed rebuttal for the planning and zoning commission in three business days while the city had
nearly 40 to build their case against me. I played by the rules, met every deadline, and engaged in good faith again and again and again. Yet each step, the rules have shifted, goalposts have been moved. The clearest example is this reconsideration. The motion was
made by a member who was not present at the original vote. It was made a month later and it came after actions had already been taken in reliance on the approval that the property was that uh it was properly granted. Now, under Robert's rule of order, which
applies when no other procedures are in place, three standards are directly on point in section 37. And I'll quote, "The motion to reconsider can only be made by a member who voted with the prevailing side on the original vote. The motion to reconsider must be made on
the same day the vote to be reconsidered was taken or on the succeeding day within a session of more than one day and any vote which has cause something to be done that is impossible to undo. So unless the city can point to a properly adopted procedure that extends
different rules to planning and zoning much like this commission has this reconsideration was procedurally invalid. This defect is not a technicality. It is a due process problem. It overturned a settled decision without
lawful authority and it ignored the voices of the citizens who participated. A dozen members of this community took time to attend that meeting. Every single one of them spoke in support of this case and their testimony was clear. The commission's original decision reflected their input and the judgment
of the body. With one improper motion, all of that was swept aside. Now, this is much bigger than 1219 Park. Citizen commissions exist to give the public an independent voice in city government. They are meant to be respected, not overridden. Whenever staff or leadership
dislikes an outcome. Yet, when a commission approves an application without the condition the staff wants, the staff pushes back, delaying, sparring procedurally, and even refusing to carry out their responsibilities in order to pressure the commission into reversing course. This is not a
representative government. This is a clear power grab. If we allow this behavior to continue, our commission will lose credibility and become nothing more than rubber stamps, stripped of their purpose and their ability to represent the people of Sanford. This is about trust in our institutions.
A city that bends or ignores its own rules to reach a preferred outcome cannot expect its citizens to trust the fairness of its process. Due process is not optional. It's the foundation of an legitimate government. And as appellet body over planning and zoning, you have both the authority and
the duty to correct this error. The city code makes clear that appeals from P&Z decisions ultimately rest with this commission. And with that responsibility comes the power to ensure those decisions are made lawfully and fairly. The consideration was wrongful. It was
made in violation of Robert's rules by a member who had no right to make the motion. Made outside the timeline. and after reliance action has already been taken. It ignored the citizens who showed up to participate, disregarded the will of the body and stripped me of
my due process. I respectfully urge you to overturn the reconsideration with prejudice and restore the original approval both to protect the integrity of the city's process and to honor the citizens who engaged in it. If we fail to correct this, the message is clear. Citizen input only matters when it
produces the outcome city leaderships uh prefer. And this is not the Sanford we believe in and I don't think it's the Sanford that you want to represent. Thank you. Thank you. Are we speaking on it or no?
Okay. So, Chase, were you I don't Were you here in the work session? Okay. Cuz I already spoke to the commission about it and um I attorney Green spoke on the legality of it. So, I I hear what you're saying, but I agree.
I'm I'm sure that attorney Green would have told us if there was something that was improperly done. I do not agree with what happened whatsoever, but she said that it was not overturned. And for the record, can you explain that again, Attorney Green?
Thank you. And and Mr. um I I do understand that you may not have been in the room. I wasn't watching you. You know, I sit at this table right here when when matters are are before the board. So, I I don't know where you were. Um there there was a a motion made
and the motion was made. I I know you brought up Robert's rules of order. There are commission procedures that flow through to the other boards. Rule 13, which sets forth reconsideration, allows rule 14 for this commission,
allows Rule 13, which flows down to all the other boards unless the boards have a separate policy, which this board does not, allows for a motion for reconsideration. It must be made at the next meeting.
Again, I don't know if you were in in the room, but part of the discussion was it if if it's going to be made, it has to be made at the next meeting, which it was. Mhm. Pursuant to those rules, the motion can be made either by the person who supported the prevailing view or was
absent. Those are those are the two criteria. What I want to be clear about is that there was not a decision to overturn the decision. The decision was to reconsider to clarify what the conditions are and to make sure that
there was clarity as to the adjudication of the application. It was continued because as you do know I think it was more like a 4-hour meeting um and one matter had to be continued. So it has been continued to the next meeting.
At that meeting there will be a very quick issue. That's not what Bon even said. Sorry. at that meeting there will be whether that at that time there will be a determination as to whether it's upheld clarified but quite frankly I think that
that is your most efficient route to go through because here's what's going to happen if you're unclear as to what the conditions are or were and then you start the development on this process then you go to P&Z in order to start
working on this process And now you two are in disagreement as to what the conditions were, what were the requirements. Guess where it's coming back to P and Z. Are you doing this now two months later? Are you doing it now 3 months, four months later? Why do the
delay? Instead, if there is an issue or concerns or questions as to what exactly and you were at that meeting, right? So, you know, there were it's no espersions towards you, the board. People were talking over each other. There were
conditions that were trying to be profered that no one could hear. And so now you're left in this rigamore. It has to be clarified. And the quickest route for you, quite frankly, I don't represent you, but I'm telling you, the quickest route for you is to go through
this process. Let it go through to the next meeting. Let the conditions be clarified if there are going to be any. Then you know exactly what your marching orders are and you're not wasting time arguing with P&Z as to what those
conditions are. My intention is to be forthright with the law to assist you in getting where you need to get to. Make sure I'm upholding what's required by PNZ. That's my only dog in the fight. I promise you. Mhm.
Let that process go through because I quite frankly think that's the most efficient way for this to be handled. Attorney Green, um, respectfully, cuz highly respect, um, but for the planning and zoning, I think the most efficient
and quickest route would have been for the conditions to have been laid out and spelled out when he got approved. There should not have been any people talking over each other, going back and forth or whatever. this is this man's business. This this every dollar, every day, every
hour going back and forth him being unclear and for us to say that that is the quickest route respectfully. The it is is is and I don't want to use words unfair because I'm exhausted tonight and if I have to hear rubber stamp one more time, I don't I don't
know how I'm going to handle it. But for Mr. spore going through this process. It is unfair for it to have been approved and then us to now come back and say, well, they were talking over each other and they did this and it was unclear and then approved it. Now, now we've got to
wait for another meeting to be noticed with this is like a month out for them to have conversation and then it could still even then be unapproved or you know. So I that that that part I have to go with what
the law says but I disagree when we say that that's the quickest most efficient route because it should have never been approved if there was no clarity if it wasn't spelled out what the conditions were going back and forth makes zero
sense to me. Commissioner Burton, let me just say that I agree with you. You're not going to get any argument from me. I sat on planning and zoning for a very long time. Um I think that there is some training
that's needed. I I as you know I've been in this position since May. It feels like May since ' 89, but since May and there's some training that needs to occur with regard to how motions are
made, how you um listen to what's being presented, how to understand there is a different way that we conduct ourselves. You got a choice. We either going to sit here or you going to sit there and how you behave. if you're on this side,
there's some training. And so some things got lost in that process because the process did not go in the manner quite frankly that it should have. I I can tell you because you can listen to
it and Mr. Spore, you were there. Staff is presenting presenting conditions and there's motions being made while staff is trying to clarify conditions, right? So what what conditions are what conditions are here? What conditions have been approved and then it's voted
on. So to that extent that it has caused right longevity in this process, that's never my intention. But again, as far when I say the most efficient, it's the most efficient for where we are at this moment.
That's my point. The most efficient as to where we sit right now. um as amazing of the things that I can do going back in time is not one of them. And so for for where we are, I would recommend going through the reconsideration
process and then dealing with it from there. At the last commission meeting, even then a condition was added and they're deleted all the time by the commission. They know how to do conditions and you can pass it without condition. It was passed without conditions. It was voted unanimously without conditions. When the
vote was passed, they were not going over conditions. They were showing an image on the screen. We weren't going over conditions. We wrapped it up. So I I disagree with that element. I think everything was presented. They rested on the fact that my documentation was incorrect and didn't even do anything
further to talk about conditions. So the commission could have gone and said approved with conditions. They know how. We've watched them do it. They chose not to. And they're allowed to put approval with no conditions. What we're saying now is we don't agree with it because we're having a hard time piecing it
together. So, let's go back and there is a chance of denial in a month. I'll agree with you till I disagree with you, right? And I disagree with you as to what transpired at that meeting. I disagree as to the clarity of the conditions and as a result, and mind
you, I didn't make the motion. So I can only infer based upon what was said during the meeting as to what caused the motion and what caused the motion based upon what was verbalized was the lack of clarity as to what transpired. Now if
you have people on the datas who's saying they confused right who am I to say you're not confused that that's my my position. So it has the motion did pass. it is was continued to the next meeting. I will work with you. I will
make sure you have my information so that as you have questions throughout the process, I'm making myself available. And that is quite frankly the best that I can offer you is to make sure that I'm available to you as you have questions. What authority does the city commission
have? At this point, at this point, it's at this point, respectfully, it's not in the city commissioner's jurisdiction. It still lies with PNZ because that motion was passed and it has been set for the next
meeting. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ford. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience wish to speak on an item not on the agenda? Okay, then we will go to resolution 3415. Yes, mayor. Uh, members of the
commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve resolution number 3415, amending the pay and classification plan to create a temporary battalion chief of emergency medical services position in the fire department to assist with the transition of duties until the incumbent retires.
Move to approve. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? As unanimously enter local agreement with Seminal County. Yes. Mayor, members of commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve the interlocal agreement with seminal county in amount of $5,500 to
conduct a market study of the feasibility of an airport product at the Sanford Orlando Sanford International Airport. Move to approve. Motion second. Any further discussion?
All in favor? I. Any opposed? Unanley. Agreement with ALS education. Yes. Mayor and Commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve the revised agreement with ALS Education LLC for school resource officer services at Elevation High School.
Any questions or motion? Discussion. Discussion. Why are we funding an SRO for a charter school? Required to by law. Required to by law. I thought it was just public schools. No, charter schools are public schools.
Okay. So be it then. Yeah. Charter schools are mean they're funded by public money. All right. Um all in favor. Any opposed? Nley. Shuttle service
agreement. Yes. Mayor members commission. City staff recommends the city commission approve the agreement with Winston Singh LLC in the amount of $240,000 for shuttle services to and from downtown Sanford. Move to approve. Second.
Further discussion. All in favor? Any opposed? Past Ansley. Um the MOU with AIO. Yes. Mayor, members commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve the member understanding with the Oyoli County
Sheriff's Office who is the designated Central Florida lead agency by enforcing laws regarding the Central Florida Internet Crimes against children. Move to approve. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Unanimously. Budget
transfer. Yes. City staff recommends the city commission approved the budget transfer in the amount of $621,000 for the lift station cell service pro project for the supervisory control data acquisition system, also known as SCATA. Move to approve.
Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Asan nastly. Budget transfer for Fifth Street. Mayor, city commission. City staff recommends the city commission approve the budget transfer in the amount of 2,470,11
for the Arrow Lane and Fifth Street paving and drainage project. Move to approve. I got a lot of discussion. Do we have a second? Second. Okay. Discussion. I'd have none. That's Claudia's district. You better
not question it. I just wanted to see Patrick's face get ready. All in favor? I may club house. Okay. Member uh mayor, members of the commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve miscellaneous change order items in the amount of
139,599.35 and approve the amended amended guaranteed maximum price of 6,222,4926 for the construction of the Mayfair Golf Course Clubhouse. Other than the uh I don't know how much it actually cost to replace three bricks
on that sign. I'm okay with it. Okay, good. Good to hear. We have a motion. Move to approve. Second. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Anley. Budget transfer for expert witness. Okay.
Mayor, members of commission, city staff recommends the city commission approve the budget transfer and purchase order of 345,000 to cover your attorney fees for DSK law firm for geographical information services GIS services and groundwater modeling for the 14 dioxane expert
witness support services. Question motion. Okay, I do have a question. Can you break down exactly what this is that we're paying $345,000 for? Either either Brent or I can explain everything unless It's related to the the expert testimony. Go ahead, Mayor.
So, in our litigation with the responsible parties, Semens and um General Dynamics and somebody else, um we have a uh mediation scheduled for November. Um our engineer um or one of our
engineering firms has a business relationship with one of them. And so, in abundance of caution, we have sought someone else. And so we had gotten a what I consider having talked with him a couple of times a very good um expert
witness um who can explain it very well knows the science. You know it's like this chemical and this chemical it takes this long for this to happen and this is what shows up here and so it must have come from there. So this we will receive a return on our investment. We hope we're going to receive a very
large return on our investment. Okay. But we we have to have right the the expert testimony and um the work he is providing um sharing with the engineering firms to provide the plan that we think should be done for the
cleanup. Okay. Beyond just our our work but you know we've got to go forward with this. Okay. Thank so do we have a motion? Move to approve. Second. Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor?
I oppose. Pass unanimously. City attorney's report. Mayor, we do have an add-on item. Oh, if you want the chief to come down and brief you because we just got it tonight. Oh, we know what that is. Yeah, we talked to that guy last time. It's part two of what we already talked
about. They've already approved that first half, haven't they, Chief? He's already gone to sleep anyway. Oh, wait. There he is. Oh, yes. You shouldn't leave him hanging on the second half. Okay. So the second half of the purchase to
replace all our firearms to safer models. Is that the gist of it? Okay. Questions or motion? Move to approve. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Unanimously. Now, city attorney's report.
I just want to compliment you all for just the way that you handled a very difficult night. You you stayed on task. You kept your composure. you understood the assignment which is as Commissioner Britain said that we work for the
citizens and I saw that in your questions in your interactions making sure questions were answered um and so I just wanted to compliment you on that um as it relates to the letter that went out um I think moving forward so the
letter was prepared by our consultant um we did go over it covering all the legal requirements ments. Um, but next time, you know, we'll talk about whether the letter could be softer. Again, sometimes that's not an option because there are
legal requirements that must be in the letter. where I will assist more going forward is even though I was at the public hearing and the public meeting and all that and making sure that there are possibly more opportunities. You know, there's going to be those people who you have 10 meetings and it's still
never going to be enough, but you can never, you know, deny the opportunity to do better. And so should we do this again, then I will be working with staff which did an excellent job to make sure we're communicating better.
And so that's my dedication to the process. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. City clerk's report. Um we do not have any applications for our boards. Um, we ran it all on social
media and I did not get one application emailed to me. So, I thought it was kind of weird cuz usually my email is packed full with them. So, I asked Nico to run it again. I don't remember seeing it.
He ran it again this past weekend. Again, nothing as you the emails coming through. Well, I checked with it and Run it again now. I think it's in need to fill one out and see it world somewhere.
What did we say about Kathy? You got her email block. Are you getting all the emails? Yeah, they're all going to Kathy. What did we say about the CDBG board? because we were asking about whether if
we have dedicated volunteers for that board if they can stay on like we approved for the uh airport authority but I think it was under some different legal things. Are we allowed to I thought we were going to bring back
the resolutions for each board to discuss that. We can put it on the next work session. Yeah. And um can you email out the list of vacancies and maybe we can somebody else?
Yes, I will. Um and we did have one I don't know if anybody saw their email today. We had another one go Julie's Historic Preservation Board. Okay. City manager report. Nothing to report, Mayor. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you, city manager. All right. I'll wait for my turn. Commissioner Britain, anything? This I I haven't seen a meeting like this since the hotel motel Holiday in. That was my first meeting.
And that was the first meeting I attended. That was Is that as much fun as this one? Yes, that was the ALF uh assisted living facility out at the marina. And um we did differently because as me as many people that was opposed to that, the
city commission voted on what they thought was best for the city of Sanford. And although one of my residents said that uh we were going to vote how we wanted to anyway, we proved that wrong that we cared about Yes. She's the one that said we need to be
fast. Um, but we showed that we truly value our residents and I'm going to echo Attorney Green and say uh I just applaud you all for um just you being amazing representatives. I've sat on the
other side and rolled my eyes at y'all and it is a lot different sitting on this side. Did you throw a flip-flop at us too? And and a bird too. Um so just thank you all for everything and I'm I'm You know what? Everything else can just wait. Y'all had a long night because you need a nap.
I would point out that the last time that it went to like 12:30, one o'clock, I was out on that side. That was my very first meeting as deputy city clerk and I thought, "What on earth did I get myself into?" You're still here. That's when Larry Dale made me mad and I
decided to run for office. Wow. Commissioner Wag, real quick. I wish they all still here, but I know they're still watching and those that are here. Uh, I think things also too, not only with what, you know, uh, our lawyer said as far as we getting things out, but
also people being more attentive. You know, if they're more attentive to what we got going on and coming to the meetings, they're able to see what we actually got going on. Um, so hopefully that will bring more of our citizens out so they can see what we got going on on a monthly basis. I just want to be able
to thank again brag on the picnic project. Um we g we about u gross to about 60 families this past Friday. Again for the men and the ones that don't know, please spread the word. We I partner with uh the health department.
And so on the 27th of uh September from 9 to noon, we got a men's health huddle for prostate cancer. So all the men in here and the ladies, please let other men know. And then I want to uh also I know uh I still got about
um I was hesitant but they're all gone pretty much now anyway. So but I was really hesitant but I wanted also with my 5,000 that I still have in my account. I wanted 300. She still has I want to give 300 to uh top kids for
their fall festival. So for public purpose for public excuse me public second all in favor. Any opposition do this 4,700. Okay. Thank you.
You go. Thank y'all. Okay. Commissioner Austin. I don't even know what to say after that. Um, I do want to commend uh Brent Johnson for his hard work and uh trying
to solve some issues. I think uh last meeting I might have been a little harsh, but um sometimes we get a little passionate up here, right, Commissioner Burton? Um, I had something else, but uh Oh, are are
we doing anything for for Norton's daughter's uh service? Yes, we are. We need to. Yes, we are. We need to I'm sending a piece Lily to the service. Um, and then on I know that usually falls on
the administration of just who works for him. We all put in and send flowers to the house. Okay. All right. But I can see they would like have you collected money or done? Yeah. Okay. Now I know that they if we're able
to do it. I know they're doing something with giving to Yeah. A couple different down organizations. Yeah. Not sure. We want to. Okay. All right. Um and then uh I would
like an update at the next meeting on the um negotiations for fire. Uh and I would like an update on the lawsuit with the Henry. I hear whispers from other areas um that that I don't
like and I know you're not a part of that uh Miss Green, but um I I would like an update on that issue. the Henry. Um, was that the tax? Okay.
And on a personal note, Thursday is uh one year anniversary of me not being able to walk again, waking up in uh Advent Alimont uh after going through a major stroke. And so I am grateful to be here tonight even though I had to listen to y'all talk way too much.
Y'all up here, not y'all. You talk more than we did. We're glad you're back too. Thank you. Yeah, we glad you um I learned something new tonight that uh people do pay attention to the point of noticing when I do this.
Wherever you are out there, I apologize for doing that. Um Attorney Green, I had asked you about whether or not we could draft a letter. You were going to revise the letter that I wanted us to draft to Mayor Dyer and county manager. Oh, we've been playing phone tag. Okay,
great. Um, we had our monthly counto meeting this week at Decision Tactical. Big shout out again to Brady and Pam for great presentations, to the mayor for kicking us off nicely, and Remo and Mon'nique, wherever you are out there at Decision Tactical. Thank you. We really
appreciated that. Um, I am now on the Florida League of Cities Intergovernmental Relations, Mobility, and Emergency Management Committee. And as such, we'll be spending more time building relationships with our legislators, making some trips virtually
or in person to Tallahassee. So this week, I need to send us what the city of Sanford's legislative priorities will be. So fellow commissioners and mayor, if you have any thoughts on that, feel free to share. Yeah. Keep your hands Yes. Home rule rules.
Our priority is them to stay out of our business. Stay out of our business. I agree. Uh, and shout out to fire inspector Kyle Jones who came by and replaced all of my smoke detectors. And the only reason I mention that is because there might be some people like me who didn't realize
that this is not only a free service, but when they replace your smoke detectors, the new ones they put in don't require new batteries, and they're not going to chirp and bug the you know what out of you. Yes. So, not to give you too much business, but because I know he stays
busy, it's a good thing anybody out there needs their smoke detectors checked, possibly replaced. Kyle is the man or whoever you assign. Thank you, Chief. That's it. Okay, I'm going to throw a wrench into the whole process.
Well, that's nothing new. Okay, so you know the numerous times I've said we need to chip away at the millage rate, even a tenth of a mill. A tenth of a mill is about $650 670,000. It's less than8%
of our budget. I would like to go at least go through the process of looking and seeing if we impose that where would the money come from and be able to consider that at our next meeting. You're saying drop a tenth of a mill.
Drop a t drop a tenth of a mill. No. Did Megan do that? Yes. No. I'm copying um I think it was Mayor Lassard is mayor. Wasn't it you that said we've got to chip away at the military? Wasn't that your mantra?
Mayor. Okay. That's exactly what Commissioner Delari said at Calo. Yeah. Stole it from me. He stole it from Yeah. I heard him say it to him. Uhhuh. Yeah. Now I know. Mr. Mayor, with all due respect,
we had to make hard decisions to cut out of the budget already. You know that. Now you're talking about $600,000. That's six police officers. That's six firefighters. Well, I don't expect it all. That's half of a fire truck. I don't expect it to all come out of one
department's budget. I think we we should do the pro we should look at it. We already process. That's that was our job during budget in July. Okay. And we just saved the residents a fire assessment.
Yeah. And we and we and we even talked about but we didn't mention it tonight in lie of a fire fee possibly having to raise the millage rate. What's your process? What's your what's your thinking? What? My thinking is you I have been saying
this all along and y'all always say no no no y'all as a group no whenever I've whenever I have brought up we should chip away at the millage rate. Oh no we don't. We shouldn't. In fact sometimes it's been suggested we raise the millage rate. um looking at all of
the things that people have written me over the last couple of weeks and looking at the budget even deeper like I think we need to do this either that and or what we were talking about of
putting out the information that the Florida League of Cities put out about the property taxes toolkit and better explaining to people why our millage rate is high, but ultimately taxes per person is still lowest. Took a while for me to get that, but I I get it now. And
I can see some people still struggling with that. I mean, they put a lot of good information that might assuage the fears out there about our high millillage rate. But you have some homework to do to come up with your 600 grand and sell us.
No, Miss Lindsay has some homework on that. Don't confirmed the numbers. No, she's already I've already talked to her about this. I don't put this on that wonderful too cuz I started talking to her about where we could cut in the budget and she nailed me former commissioner back there.
I wanted to recognize Commissioner Randy Jones and to say happy birthday to him as well this evening. We got to sing. We got to sing. He must be running for office. You can come take district one. Okay. So,
I came I came here to enjoy the show. You remember when I told you you Hey, by the way, this is your seat. You can have it. Welcome back. I told you it was going to be some of the best times and some of the worst times. You ever had some of the most
and two strokes? Two strokes. I'll talk about this after we adjourn. Is there so is there any support at all to look at? You put us on the spot here. Yes, ma'am. Well, as a new person who doesn't know any better, I say, "Sure, let's look at it."
Can Can I just ask, do you want this in two weeks? Like, we're going to ask the departments six $700,000 in two weeks from this the 22nd meeting. Is that what you're looking at? No. Wow. Okay, that might be a little tough. Tell them to pretend they're in Citizens Academy and they're doing that little
budget game where they have to move money around. Well, well, with all due respect, it has to be quick if you want it done for this Are you thinking about for this budget? Yeah, he's talking about 256 before October 1. Yes.
To vote at the next meeting. So everybody on staff remember it's art woodruff ar% [Music] of your budget. I've already found where ours has come from.
I'm out. Okay. If you I mean if you're not going to go along with it, then let's not have them go through the exercise. Well, just just just put us out there like that. The mayor put it and the commission just Go ahead and do it.
Go ahead. Sandy, do you think you could pull this off? Okay. Thank you, Sandy. We're [Music] [Music] Part: 2
Okay. Again, call to order the meeting city commission work session for Monday, September 8th, 2025. Um, Commissioner Austin is on his way. Um and we have uh assistant city manager
Radzac with us tonight um because of uh um Mr. Ver Park um had a death in the family. Mr. Rac first thing. Okay. Uh on the first on the agenda is the consent of the assignment of assumption of lease at
350 Semino Boulevard. That's the trail head building used to be Filimonous Pizza. Me and U. Attorney Green are um working on this item closely together. Um I'll turn it over to her to provide some legal and then for the far as the lease, I could update you on where we are with that.
So the lease holder uh Colidio um is presently involved in some legal issues which uh brought to rise the selling of the property. There's uh there's a pending sale. As part of that pending sale, we've been in talk with the buyers
to assign the present existing lease over to the buyers. Um, also to extended a lease over to them. I just wanted to bring it to mayor and the commissioner's attention so that when we get to that point, there are no concerns or objections to simply assigning the lease
um that is already existing with Colidio and uh assistant city manager is correct. We've been working closely with um not only the existing lease holder but also with the buyers to make sure that this is a smooth transition. Are we is the lease changing or is it
just assigning the existing lease? It's it's assigning the existing lease but we are also in talks with regard to an assistant city manager can get into this as well to um increase some of the uh rental amounts because those have not been touched for quite a long time.
Okay. They've also requested for financing purpose to extend the lease to 2100 the year 2100 uh for financing purposes. So we've accommodated that. However, it comes with that as a rate and in um an increase in land lease payments. So we'll be doing that for uh
we've tenatively agreed on the increase in payments and and then it'll go on from there. First three years going to be a certain amount and then it'll uh taper off to the the CPI for years after the third year. When does the current lease expire?
um 2072 I believe. So adding 28 years. Yeah, I think they needed to show the bank that they had a 75 year land lease in effect. Okay, so that's the reason for the 2100. Any questions?
Nope. Was it a tropical storm? So what we'll do is we'll uh bring the the assignment of the lease to the commission as soon as possible and get that presented to you. But we just wanted to provide you with the information and and get that movement. Okay. Okay. Once there's actually and everything
goes through, we'll bring the assignment forward. We'll check the status again in 2100. I'll be here. Okay. Goldsboro CRA then. Okay. To provide an update on the Goldsboro CA, we have our economic development director Brady Lazard. is coming up to
provide an update to the commission. All right. Thank you, Mr. Radzac. Mayor, commissioners, um I'm going to go ahead and start by going back to the uh original conversation we had on this kind of vet through some of these slides pretty rapidly on some of the things
that we had uh general agreement on. Uh but more importantly and more excitedly, uh I look forward to updating you all on where we are today and where we will be tomorrow. So again to start this was uh just our opening slide of our last presentation and please stop me at any
point during this uh presentation if you have any questions um but we we will certainly be available to answer any questions at uh at the end of the presentation as well. So this was just our original slide showing kind of the diversity of uh housing stock folks. Uh
this is a previous project up in the tight uh top right hand corner that the city had done uh commemorating uh Goldsboro being founded in 1891 that's currently in place. Historic Goldsboro main street will become much more relevant to this conversation as we proceed tonight. Uh next slide Chris
please. Um again when we discussed a traditional CRA there were a number of partners that would need to come to the table for that to be effective. the city of Sanford, obviously, Semino County, obviously the great state of Florida, uh, which for any of you that are following what's happening in Tallahassee, there's quite a bit of
consternation related to CRAAS, uh, predominantly those questions are coming out of South Florida. But not to disparrage our our neighbors to the south, I think it is important to, uh, talk about the fact that traditional CRAAS are certainly um, in the headlines
uh, as it relates to Tallahassee. Uh, one of the, uh, agencies that we've leaned, Pamela and I have leaned heavily on throughout this process is the Seminal County Property Appraiser. David Johnson's office has been tremendously helpful uh, in keeping us from expending
u tax dollars and gathering data that we all own. So, that's important to know. Uh, these were the seven steps to creating that traditional CRA. I'm not unless the commission desires otherwise going to go through each of them. But as as you look at these steps, there are a
number of consultants that would need to be engaged and I believe our last approximation of what a traditional CRA would cost to set up uh by the uh finding of necessity and all of the other steps that would need to occur is somewhere between 300 and $400,000. Uh
next slide, Chris. Uh again, it wraps up with the establishment of a redevelopment trust fund to finance implementation of the plan. This is uh falls more into Cynthia Lindsay's department as it relates to our current CRA that's in place here downtown, but again, three or $400,000 to affectuate
uh the traditional CRA. I'm pleased to report that we're uh not expending any dollars on consults to date. uh the original boundary that we had talked about and uh I don't want to take any sort of uh ownership credit for this. This was after discussing with a number
of folks in the community of Goldsboro uh how they viewed the Goldsboro community. Now, some of that is outside of those original boundaries that were established in 1891, and I would primarily uh steer you to Academy Manor. Uh and uh Mr. Bentley uh is in the
audience. Kenneth Bentley uh for the record is in the audience was very instrumental along with Commissioner Wiggins. Commissioner Wiggins put me in touch with a number of folks in the community that we wanted to get that input from. Um next slide, Chris. So the original boundary, those are just the
dollars that were generated. I I won't bore you with the details. I I will have kind of a summary for you at the end of today's presentation. Uh but that original boundary uh showed a projected taxable value of $4.4 million. uh and that was uh on a stretch between 2022
and 2031. Next slide, Chris. So then there was discussion over the years about an extended boundary. I know that Commissioner Wiggins before Commissioner Wiggins, Commissioner Williams, uh the mayor um were primarily and maybe Commissioner Austin to a lesser extent
on the time frame wise had talked about uh entertaining the idea of a traditional CRA in the Goldsboro community for many many years. Uh there was always the uh reluctance to accept the fact that downtown would have a CRA
that was making infrastructure um and uh investments that uh weren't being afforded uh in the Goldsboro community because of the lack of a traditional CRA. So over the years um it was discussed to extend those boundaries. U
in my discussions with the community. I I wouldn't say it's offensive, but it does defeat the purpose of a Goldsboro specific uh hybrid CRA uh action plan. So, I think the commission was in agreement last time uh we presented u
there was a general agreement that we would move with that uh original uh boundary. The next slide will just show you that if you do broaden that boundary and bring in some of that industrial product, some of that St. John's Parkway product. Yes, it does increase uh taxes,
but no, the community does not identify that as Goldsboro proper. Next slide. So, just a sidebyside showing of the original boundary versus the extended boundary. Again, uh our extended boundary uh includes that uh industrial and and I will share with you
off topic a little bit that there is some tremendous product coming online uh in the PCmen corridor, in the airport boulevard corridor. Many of you all uh will hopefully be able to attend a groundbreaking that we're very excited about that occurs in Pamela, when is
that? October, November. So, it's free lunch and I see Miss Osborne's here. So, she will be in attendance. We we joke about that quite a bit. She always likes to say, "Well, Brady, are they serving food or giving away any goodies?" And uh so sometimes I mislead her and tell her that they are just to make sure she
shows up. But uh but it is a very exciting product uh that's going vertical uh in that corridor. Uh next slide please Chris. So as we discussed last time again we are not married to uh an acronym here. Uh great was the Goldsboro redevelopment entertainment
and arts tract tr. We had also considered grit the goldsboro redevelopment investment track I believe and I don't want to speak for Mr. Bentley, but there was a general consensus after our presentation uh at the Goldsboro Main Street meeting that great was the acronym uh that they would
uh like to uh uh employ if the commission uh so desires to move forward. So, the Goldsboro Main Street infrastructure that I mentioned to you last time was admittedly speculative. I I knew that the Goldsboro Main Street organization existed. Uh but my uh ask
of you all last uh time we discussed this was give me the opportunity to go out speak with Main Street, see if their infrastructure uh allowed for them to consider uh managing uh a project uh like this, a a program like this. I'm
pleased to report that Mr. Bentley and the board sent me a letter um recently, well about a month ago um actually more than a month ago where they made that commitment. There were continued conversations on the main street side, but they've made the commitment in our
preliminary uh discussions to administer this. So effectively, we're talking no additional city staff. Uh I will share with you that Miss Scoffield, Julie Scoffield was at the Main Street meeting where I presented. Uh she serves as a staff liaison to the
Goldsboro Main Street uh board. So I would uh strongly encourage uh that we continue that relationship as far as having someone from staff on the board if the commission decides to proceed. Uh the Main Street group was was in uh fair
agreement with with the primary goal of this festivals, arts, entertainment, celebrating the history of Goldsboro. Uh and and it's an interesting history. Uh of note, uh Mr. Bentley and I were on Channel 6 today and I learned some things from from his interview. I'm sure
you didn't learn anything from my portion of the interview, but uh I will say that there's some interesting history that Main Street and that community uh is is very excited to to celebrate. There was also significant discussion about the addition of art,
hardscape art, similar to what we have here in uh the downtown um uh corridor that we're standing in today. uh which would invite in my opinion uh a more uh a more robust conversation between our
polit uh public arts commission and Main Street thereby through the Goldsboro uh neighborhood. Um my default position in life is velocity to implementation. I I think that talking about things is wonderful uh but getting things implemented is um
of equal importance if not greater importance. So the velocity to implementation was something that we were focused on as we uh fine-tuned this project. So here's our recommendation. So the Goldsboro hybrid CRA and and yes, I will continue to call it a CRA. Yes,
it's not a traditional CRA through the great state of Florida, but it is a term that warrants uh consideration in in the Goldsboro community. Uh this is a project that all the partnerships I showed you earlier, the Semino County partnership, the great state of Florida
partnership are not necessary in this case. This is a city of Sanford initiative. So in short, we can call it what we want. Um but the interesting thing in the Main Street organization is I presented uh over at the Westside uh
center kind of bought into this. So we've got significantly limited resources as compared to our downtown CRA and that's just a function of economics. I was taught at a very young age that math never lies, numbers do not lie. So what we've done is we've tried to take
significantly less resources and maintain the impact that those resources would have. So the yellow area represents historic Goldsboro Boulevard main street as we formalize this uh in the form of an ordinance if if the commission decides to proceed would be
uh gearing all those resource expenditures you at least for year 1 through five in that historic Goldsboro Boulevard the most impact for your dollars and and when I say your dollars it's their dollars because remember this
is all designed on a portion of the taxes paid by this community having those dollars spent in this community. So, it's it's a uh tactical redeployment of assets that that community produces. So, again, there's your uh Goldsboro
corridor. That uh road to my right is uh French Avenue and it runs all the way down to just short of of the Krooms Academy turn there. So, Pimmen, next slide, Chris, please. back to this uh picture that we found
many years ago. It was interesting uh as Channel 6 interviewed us today to hear Mr. Bentley and not just Mr. Bentley, these are other folks in the community have told me about this uh place. Actually, uh Commissioner Williams was the first person that told me about the Juke Joint right across from what was
once Lake and now is Clark uh from the police station. So, our goal is to be realistic, but our goal is also to make that impact in that stretch. And the vast majority of those businesses that you see listed there were either on historic at the time it was called 13th
Street. Uh but they were either on that street or right adjacent to that corridor. So our goal is to have that type of vibrance brought back. Uh and it gets us to our next slide, Chris. So next steps. So funding. I'm happy to say
that uh Cynthia Lindseay has been tremendous in assisting in the identification of of the the funding mechanism we will use uh that funding again we want to tie it to some sort of tiff increase moving forward so the community truly knows now the admittedly
the impact on an annual basis is not going to be as significant as it has been in certain years in downtown uh Sanford remember when we founded the original downtown CRA those first couple years there wasn't that spike. So, what we'll do uh again with the commission's
blessing is build into our ordinance uh a funding increase as the neighborhood that Goldsboro map that I'm showing you uh increases along with it. So, the community will every year see that progress in
a a manageably understood chart uh so to speak. But it'll be an exciting just like it is for our downtown CRA today. Hey, what's our funding going to be next year? Well, it's based on last year's David Johnson members. So, it's it becomes a uh source of community pride
implementation. Um, and let me let me jump to oversight first. So, the oversight is primarily going to be this community, the Main Street Goldsboro infrastructure. And again, this is all in deference to what the commission decides, but uh in meeting with uh the main street folks, they're willing to
take this on. Now, they will also share with you that they want guidance going in and guidance along the way. Um so, from an oversight, the organization that we've identified as most apt, although this commission is also, and I mentioned
last time, you can create a new board if you would like to uh to administer the program. certainly up to the commission and that's again some of the guidance I'm here looking for tonight but on the implementation front we are I'm happy to say we are ahead of schedule we're under
budget uh the implementation back to that velocity conversation implementation I look at this as a program that can start January 1 I'm suggesting that from a uh operational side from a funding side it will be based on Cynthia's calendar year but
operationally I think it's very uh difficult sometimes for folks in the community, our downtown CRA or this proposed hybrid uh to understand a fiscal year versus a calendar year. Calendar year tends to uh be more digestible from a a festival
perspective, things of that nature. So, uh that's a suggestion uh that we discussed with Mainstream. Lastly, I I'm here to hear from the commission. Are there any concerns? Um, one of the concerns that I brought up to
Main Street and they tended to agree was potentially grants moving forward if this program is uh embarked on by the commission. Perhaps there's a limitation of any sort of Main Street uh funding, any of these dollars going to, let's say, amplified music. Not that I don't
like amplified music, but you look at that compressed corridor we talked about. There are significantly more residential stock adjacent to we have folks living on historic Goldsboro Boulevard. Yes, we have some living upstairs and in other places along First Street, but this is a significantly more
residential front/commercial. The commercial is actually a minor element in many of those blocks. So, those are some of the suggestions we would like to build into the enabling ordinance that we give the the Main Street folks. With that, I would turn it over to the
commission for any questions. Questions? Uh, can you go back to the map? Sure. That that one there, Chris. There. That one. There we go. Okay. So, we're pulling in Kroom's Academy, but there's a residential section below that. Dixie and Roosevelt,
I believe. Residential. So, uh, Commissioner, great question. Uh, Crooms Academy was brought in by vocal choice. I I think Yeah, I understand that. So, uh the land south of there, uh that's predominantly uh Semino County properties, county properties. Yes, ma'am.
Okay, makes sense. What and what's the thought process there? Of not including the seminal county properties. Well, of including them. Uh I Mr. Bentley would probably not Yeah. Yeah, we're not including that's not
included. But KRS Academy is is a significant part of the story. There's no tax revenue generated there. Obviously, there's no tax revenue uh from any churches or uh certified 501c3 type operations, but this is what the community has agreed
they define as Goldsboro proper. So, do we have a do we have a approximate uh amount of tax? So, in in speaking with with Miss Lindsay, we we've got to walk before we can run. Uh and in this case, I I suggest we start with a crawl, but it's
it's not necessarily a crawl. And I'm not being koi in answering the question, but we're looking at a baseline of about $75,000. Cynthia, uh I say that uh happily because we're going to see that incremental improvement very quickly. Uh
and again, we'll build this into the uh ordinance. Um but let's shift gears to what the funding is over there currently as it relates to Main Street. If you start bifurcating what Sanford is doing in this regard, uh the main street funding
is currently at what Cynthia 35 and change about $36,000 and change. So we're immediately doubling that funding effectively as a city if if you all decide to proceed. So we're doing this only to fund Main Street, not to help.
No, sir. So Main Street will administer this program for us. In other words, uh they won't anyone in the community, whether it's a commercial or residential person in that yellowed area there would not come to the city commission and say, "Hey, I would like to apply for a grant
for X, Y, or Z." They would be operating directly with Main Street uh as an organization with our staff leaison on on the board. So, we're talking about $75,000 initially. Correct. What do we expect that the cap could be?
So extrapolating out to 2031, I could see this double once again. And that's that's being very realistic. And and again in the enabling ordinance I I think it's important that the city retains a significant uh amount of I
don't want to use the word control but uh a significant amount of input of how that uh grows because quite frankly commissioner to your point I could see year one and this is another question I was going to ask you all. Would we want to see these dollars roll over as they
currently do in our downtown CRA? My personal opinion would be yes, but the commission may have a completely different view of that. So, because I think in year one through three, maybe even one through four, uh you're going to have a difficult time as a main
street newly functioned and impanled with this responsibility deploying $75,000 a year. That's that's my personal thought. So, um I I do think uh it it needs to be uh
modeled like the current CRA where uh we still have uh a a vote and uh the final approval of of the grants. Um,
I am uh I don't know on a night where we're talking about needing more funding, um, we're also talking about giving away funding. Respectfully, city commissioner, I I
view this as as again a a tactical redeployment of assets, right? The model that we're discussing, these are dollars in the community that we would be reinvesting in the community. But I I I do hear your your point on overall budgetary constraints,
but $100,000 a year would pay for a firefighter, would pay for a police officer. Um absolutely correct. So we have to be mindful of that. Um I did not expect when we originally
discussed the CRA model uh for for Goldsboro to be just for thrown parties. Oh. Um let me finish. Uh I I would like to see some fake grants like we currently do. Uh, I would
like to see uh some beautifification like we currently do uh more than than having parties. I I I tend to agree and uh Commissioner, what and Mr. Bentley's here because I I don't want to speak for for the main street's uh vision of of how these
dollars are uh invested. Uh I will say that when when I mentioned festivals uh there was discussions of of higherend jazz type uh vibes u things that would draw people back to a commercial corridor and I neglected to mention
facade grants. Facade grants will remain part of this and that's why I was thrilled that Miss Scoffield was at the meeting um because she has in her lexicon that expertise. Um, so facade grants, things of that nature. But this is great input because I I do want to
make sure the the end result of of tonight's presentation to you all is uh please um give me direction. I don't like uh expending any city resources if if there's not uh an opportunity for success at the end. So the next step is
really sitting down with Miss Green's office and and putting these parameters together. what's allowed uh on the grant side of things, what's not allowed on the grant side of things, and and really formalizing um the relationship with Main Street.
So, uh with that being said, uh I I would like to see a formula where the monies every year are are predetermined, the percentage goes towards the facade and the percentage goes towards these other
aspects. we can absolutely accomplish that. And I'd be remiss if if I didn't go back and better uh explain the the current city commitment to Main Street is $36,000. So tonight we're we're talking about not a
$75,000 commitment, but an additional 35 36ish uh uh commitment, which dollars are dollars. I 100% agree. Great. I thought it was an additional 75,000. No. in and again that's looking at Miss Lindsay that's
well that really I would leave to the commission's direction because in in conversations with Main Street they're open to the conversation on either front. I I would suggest rolling it in under this program but that's fully uh left to the commission.
What are the monies they currently get from the county? Uh Golden CRA Mr. Bentley I do not believe is receiving anything except Main Street some small dollars from TDC from Semino County TDC but yeah Main Street. Yeah.
No, you get money from TDC from Main Street. Yeah. Let me let Mr. Bentley speak to that. He from TDC. Yes. But from the county? No. Okay. And thank you too for letting me speak. Yes. We um a week ago we went to um the meeting with TDC and of course you know
you've been a board member art there was that night they awarded um $30,000 to Goldboro and also downtown Main Street but I was stopped I guess it was Saturday and I was told if the millage rate does not pass Wednesday at the 5:30
meeting downtown Main Street and Goldsboro Main Street won't be getting the dime. Uh so we that doesn't have any with TDC. So what now? TDC money is not a connection. TDC money has nothing to do with No, no, no, no. I know that, but that's what they were telling me. Say all the all the TDC money would go to the indoor
stadium. It wouldn't go to the main streets because they they wouldn't be getting the uh in the increase that they thought they would be getting. That would have to come back there to the TDC. Um Okay. So to answer your question, the $30,000
commitment. Okay. Okay. And thank you. So, uh Mr. Lassard. Um, again with with with the bulk of this conversation going to Goldsboro Main Street,
how does this commission answer the downtown Main Street when they come to us and ask for like funding? It's it's not funding to Main Street. It's funding to the CRA. And the answer to downtown Main Street would be the millions of dollars that the CRA has
already put downtown. Yeah. So, so Mr. But okay, hold on. Let me talk. We're letting Main Street Goldsboro handle this money. The argument I would say for downtown Main Street would be why aren't you
allowing us to have this kind of funding and make these decisions? Because we had a CRA board that did it. I mean the the main street and let me make sure I'm clear on this. Um and my understanding is beyond this the money that we allocate to Main
Street for Main Street right now in the budget is $75,000 for the CRA. Main Street will be the essentially the CRA board. Correct. That $75,000 will not be going to fund anything for Main Street. That is correct.
Okay. Now, with the downtown CRA, we approve the budget every year. I'm assuming we would do the same thing. Main Street would um as the CRA would provide their budget and then we would approve that budget.
Yes. And uh to Commissioner Austin's point, Mayor, I I think it would be wholly appropriate for uh the issuance of those grants to be a consent agenda item potentially as as they uh deploy those dollars. I I think that's absolutely appropriate. It's it's how
the CRA has functioned downtown today. And and the the difference and I I like that idea that we have the final approval is that the CRA is appointed by us. Main Street is not appointed by us. That is correct. So it's it's an independent organization
we're asking to to run this. So for us to maintain control, I think it's important that those all the final decisions come back to us. Does that make sense? Um,
I put him here. Um, so um, and I wanted to to sort of echo what Commissioner Austin said about what are we going to spend the money on? Because if you think about the downtown CRA, you
know, the the first sort of boost was us doing hardcape infrastructure. And then the next real boost was when we started doing the the reconstruction grants. Correct. Um to bring in the the private money. So So your Yes.
events are important, but they're not what co what corrects the real investment. And to your point, mayor, the city has made some extensive through CDBG utility dollars, some extensive infrastructure. The infrastructure, and that was part of what we talked about with channel 6
today, is the the infrastructure, the underground, the subterranean improvements that the city has made over the years in Goldsboro been pretty significant. So in short, uh this is a program that would allow uh those investments to be
uh more visible to the community, I would say, both in the facade front, the festival front, the art front, things of that nature. Any other questions? And this is the same Main Street organization we have now.
correct that is prepared to take this on and has the resources and the time to commit to it and and comma in the parameters that the city needs to put in this enabling ordinance uh that that gives the city
and Main Street a uh a relationship that that uh that works and and I do think it's inherently important to have a severability clause within this enabling ordinance to where if this doesn't work out uh for whatever reason Main street decides they don't want to administer it. It was too much work, too much of an
incumbrance on their organization. You know, there are built into this ordinance with Miss Green. Uh opportunities for either party to to sever the relationship. I I don't anticipate that, but I do think u a severability clause is certainly order.
We can never be sure what tomorrow brings. Great fact. Um and then the other thing you asked about was rollover. I you know I would think that would make sense that absolutely that you roll over the the funds. It does. Um especially if they're trying to make
a a big investment in something that and can't be funded in one year. Yeah. One thing that this exercise has certainly brought to uh greater attention I think and this is Commissioner Wiggins was driving this, Mr. Bentley's driving this, others in the community have driven it is there
are a number of parcels in that yellow area that we're showing as as the primary target for this program. Uh that present s very very significant opportunities to the city to Main Street to Goldsboro as a whole. Uh there's a parcel well I I
any of you that are interested there there's a number of parcels in that corridor that uh the city could potentially uh acquire for tax benefits on the private sector side that would potentially really help uh uh the corridor. Uh
there's the ongoing conversation with the Urban League. I know that's that's continuing. Uh Mr. Radzac and and the city manager have been working with the Urban League. That's a significant piece of property. Um there's a trade that's occurring uh Porzig realy um at the
corner there the old um dentist well the dentist offices but uh this is the porzig Derek Thomas great local realtor that uh is really uh working in the Goldsboro area uh harder than most have prospected in that area for a long
time. So you're seeing some trades that are occurring in that corridor that that will bring about new uh new construction bring about tax base for the city. So, it's an exciting time. We just need to capitalize on it. Okay. So, if that's the commission's
direction, I'd uh like to sit down with Miss Lindseay, really start putting pen to paper on on regulations, parameters, how that relationship between the city and Main Street look, bring it back to the commission, and uh have one more uh look at and please be thinking about things
like should amplified music be allowed, should should facade grants for um residential properties be allowed. Uh again, we do have homes in that corridor. Should they only be limited to commercial things of that nature? We'll have plenty of bites at that apple the
next time around. Do we need to um if Brady has to work with the screen on this? I I feel like we need to have a moment of silence for her or a prayer for her. Oh my god. Thank you, Mr. for everything.
Don't forget, she's a labor attorney at heart, so there's a fair labor type uh suit being built here. But honestly, I would ask for Miss Green's input on anything. Absolutely. Do you see anything we're missing as far as formulating that enabling ordinance to bring this back to the commission
with the parameters built in? You you may even have an exhibit of the Main Street bylaws within that ordinance. I I I would defer to you. I I recommend in the next week or so we just sit down now that we have some guidance for the mayor and commissioners and go over and come back with some sort of template. Um
great I' I've heard earmarked funds almost that wanting some percentages for certain types of activity talking about the corridor what will be and where if we're going to have you know festivals where those will take place so as to not negatively impact the residences in that
corridor and in that area. So within the next week, let's just go ahead and schedule something so that we can get started on this. Now, are we expecting all the expenditures to be just in the yellow zone? Again, mayor, that that was when you brought up residential facads.
Well, are you going to do them on Goldsboro Boulevard? Are you going to do them anywhere on Goldsboro? And now you're out of money. So, well, absolutely. And and the constraints of budget have have really, and that was what we worked with Main Street on is is where do we see that impact? Clearly historic Oldsboro
Boulevard is the primary thoroughfare there. But so geospatially perhaps it's it's properties that are adjacent to uh and we'll build this into the ordinance, but I would envision double sides on some of those lots. You have some some
geometry on on lots along that uh corridor that that are dicey uh to be considered historic Goldsboro frontage, right? So I I think we'll have to massage the language to allow for penetration off of the actual frontage
and the intent would probably be we at least focus there to start with and over time we might spread define priority. So the initial corridor is the priority grants and everything being focused in that area and then
including in the ordinance how it goes outward correct once that corridor is is brought up to to the intention. And what I'd like to do is work with Miss Green. This is primarily been well not primarily solely driven internally. Uh I don't see the need for an exhibit
of a survey for instance Miss Green. I I to survey that corridor, the city would probably be spending u $60,000, $70,000 to survey the yellow box I'm showing you. I think language can be built in there that will give Main Street and the city guidance moving forward that's
defensible uh from a recipient uh perspective moving forward. And I don't want to make it sound like we're attempting to do this on the cheap. I just think there's a significant funds Okay. Anything else?
All right. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Thomas, I want to assure you it was never meant for partying. We won't be doing that with any monies. This is meant to make Goldber look a better place, a shot in the arm to bring back the glory days. But we're not doing
this so we can have a good time. We're doing this so we can have something that lasts forever. I promise you that. I wouldn't be a part of it if it's going to be something like that. Amen. Commissioner Austin. Amen. We know what we do also. Okay. Next is we're not doing the grease
and oil. Staff would like to reschedule that to a future work session. Okay. And um that was Yeah. Well, the um who was going to do it? Brent was going to do the the oil and
grease program, but something came up, so he requested to reschedule that to a future work session. It's okay. But I thought our oil and grease person had um had a was unavailable. Yeah. The person in charge of the grease and
oil program was not able to be here. Okay. So, when you're saying a future meeting, can we say at the next meeting? Because um not at So, at the next meeting, 22nd meeting, we could have it on the work session if you like.
At the work session and then I asked um Miss Green, I don't know if you were able to get get that. You've had so I mean, God, I've been sending you so much just myself. Um, I asked for you to be able to formulate um some sort of uh
I'm thinking maybe a resolution or something because how outdated our program manual was and gosh I have so many questions now we won't even get to these today but and that has not gone unnoticed. I'm
working with Brent and his team to get a final assessment as to what issues there are, if any, so that I can address your question, Commissioner. Um, so that's where I'm at. I think this U matter that's going to be on the next work
session will help formulate that for me because by that time that presentation will be done. the and it's it's been almost like a month now because I was asking for the commission for and staff for immediate review so that we wouldn't
have any enforcement because of how outdated the information was and I don't think that we should be still trying to do enforcement to stop and or hinder business if we have seen that our our
program our manual is outdated. So, I don't I'm I'm kind of concerned about that moving it for another two weeks and then you still have businesses that cannot move forward because we're under the this old outdated
ill program manual. Understood. I I will work with uh Brent. If you can get me your presentation well before the next work session, then I would have something to be able to present and at least address commissioner's question and we'll we'll work on that. I thought
that night we directed staff to stop enforcing the the old minimum tank size. That was one particular item, but I was saying we shouldn't have enforcement until the entire
pin, but Brent Johnson, public works utilities director. Um it wasn't, if I remember correctly, mayor, the uh direction was not to stop enforcement. what the direction was was for um additional staff to review uh anything
that was uh being requested of certain businesses. So if the oil and grease program, for example, the oil and grease program person hope uh decided that someone needed to install and this is just purely hypothetical needed to install a 500gallon grease trap, it
needed to come to myself or Mike Cannon to review um to determine whether or not that was in fact the case. Um, if we were going to in fact suspend uh the program, I would uh recommend because we
don't want people that should have some type of program that should have grease traps, that should have something to as a point source treatment. We don't want people who should have it to not have to do it at all. So, if we were going to suspend it, I would request that we
suspend it. But upon implementation uh of the um the uh updated and improved program then go back and uh require those folks to meet those requirements. Um that would just be my recommendation
and that's what I was asking for because I didn't know how we as the commission directed staff to suspend anything but to come up with some kind of resolution that says yada yada yada what we can do within the law. Okay. My understanding was we had said
stop using it was 750 I think was the the old minimum size well and or whatever we said stop using that that tank size and start using the yes sir the calculations as available under the state law well that's the problem so and that's
why I mentioned at that previous meeting as well that the state has a requirement but the purpose of the oil and grease program because as the the governing agency the governing body which is this commission uh you all have the authority to uh go above and beyond the minimum
requirements of the building code and that's what I alluded to last time and that is the intent of the oil and grease program is to go above and beyond what the uh plumbing code which is the section of the building code the plumbing code requires uh that is not only to protect our plant but to protect
our collection system as well which we plan to uh highlight as a part of the presentation which I said we could done tonight, but I just didn't know it who was going to show up and ask questions specifically about their location or their business. And that's why we didn't feel comfortable giving it without Miss
Duncan being here. Okay. But we can certainly that's the purpose of any oil and grease program is to go above the requirements of because if we were going to meet the minimum standards of the building code, we wouldn't need an oil and grease program. Uh and so that's the purpose of the program.
Okay. Well, I agree. It's important that hope is here. All right, I'm just gonna just stay up there. Brand, you ready to move on to the next one? Mayor. Yes. Okay. I guess is it any other questions about Okay. Okay. This is the renewal of the
waste pro uh contract and Bren Johnson, public works and utilities director will present. All right. Uh good to be back again. Solid waste agreement renewal discussion. Uh if you all remember, we uh had this preliminary discussion regarding Waste Pro and a a
uh requested rate increase back in um I want to say June um of this year. Does this work? There we go. uh June of this year, we had a discussion where Wastist Pro uh was requesting a rate increase uh to
provide services. That rate increase, the reason that we brought it to you all as early as we did, and I know that was a question that you all had, uh was because the current agreement, and you're going to see later as we get into the presentation, uh expires next year.
And so we are coming before you all for a preliminary determination on uh on a couple of items. and I will discuss that uh as we go forward. The purpose of this presentation uh is to provide an overview of current solid waste agreements so that you all know uh when
that particular agreement was executed, why we ended up or how we ended up with waste pro. And then we're going to talk about uh uh key renewal terms. Uh also we're going to provide waste pro justification. I have to make sure I'm specific and stating this is waste pro
justification uh on a proposed rate increase uh and how they're uh showing us their extenduating circumstances. And then what we're doing is in the end we're requesting uh commission feedback on the renewal option and possible rate increase as requested by WastePro.
So a little bit of the background. Um we had a previous hauler. I'm not sure who the hauler was, but this back in 200 uh six or so prior to um my coming to the city. Uh but we uh cancelled service with them due to um their inability to
provide that service. We ended up with Waste Pro and that contract was executed on June 1st, 2007. Uh it allowed for the initial peri initial period of seven years. Uh after which time you have four four uh year extensions.
We're currently in the third extension which takes us from June of 2022 to May of 2026. Once again, uh we're here before you all in advance of 2026. Uh because if commission so desires to u
move away from waste pro or if uh commission decides that listen, we don't want to give waste pro this as you're going to see later 22% increase. And if you decide not to give them that and waste pro decides that they are not going to pres pro provide service beyond
2026, city staff needs time to uh go through the process of getting a new waste hauler which typically takes about a year based on my experience. So if commission does uh make that determination, we're a little bit behind the eightball which is why we're here today trying to get um uh some
direction. Um and this the bottom is just some of the services that waste provides. They provide residential commercial collection, bulk pickup, kind of standard for um waste hauling. Once again, the renewal terms, the
original contract was 2007 and June. Uh the first renewal um was in 14. Second renewal is 18. Like I said, we are in our third renewal, which takes us from uh June of 2022 to uh May of 2026. And
then their final renewal is June of 20 is uh June of 2026. Now what's important to note is I know waste pro made a statement previously uh at that June meeting and they stated that uh they could go beyond that 2030 date and uh it is is my opinion as well as which is
even more important than my opinion. It's uh city's legal council's opinion that they cannot go beyond that 2030 date. That is a hard date for terminating or ending services with race pro. um in which case we would go back out to bid for those services.
As I mentioned, Waste Pro came to us with um with justifications for the rate increase. These were not created by city staff, but they're citing economic impacts um related to labor shortages uh and um
uh led by labor and fuel. Uh, and you all received some correspondence, I believe, from Waist Pro, uh, I believe over the weekend, Friday, I believe, maybe, I think it was Friday, uh, where their attorney, uh, gave their opinion on whether or not they could do a rate
increase, and they cited uh, COVID, the effects of COVID, and some of these things mentioned here. Uh, so these are some of the things that they are alleging are contributing to their requested rate increase. So some what were some of the previous
concessions that we've given waist pro? Uh I think it's important to note this because I know and understand that waste pro is requesting a rate increase but the city has given previous concessions to waste pro which include which includes uh an adjustment of the CPI cap from uh 3% to 4%.
uh that uh and they have been so basically how that works is anything over 4% they still get the 4% rate increase which they have the last couple uh a couple rate increases have gotten as 4%. Uh we changed the CPI index to be more beneficial uh to waste. So they
were under another index which didn't have as high of an adjustment or high of a as high of a percentage adjustment. And so we did make that concession. And we also, as you all are are probably aware that they came back to commission
requesting an increase for disposal cost. Uh city staff considered that uh as a cost of doing business. However, uh they were awarded uh that increase and so those are some of the concessions already provided to waste pro as a part
of this agreement. Now the question comes out, how does this increase affect citizens and the rates? Uh the current rate is 1974. If you all as a board were to approve the 22.19% rate increase, that would
effectively take the rate to 2412. Uh now, if you'll notice, there's an asterk next to that 2412 because that does not include all of the annual CPI adjustments that they're going to be coming to commission uh requesting. Uh if you factor in that, that'll take you
by 2029 to over $28 uh per resident. That also does not include that 2822 does not include um disposal rate increases that they are likely going to request as well. Uh and uh we didn't work up the numbers on that. We just wanted to make sure I mean those are a
little bit smaller, but yet and still we wanted to make sure that commission understood the magnitude of approving this rate increase and wanted to also look at it in totality. when you talk about all of the other rate increases that they're going to be requesting throughout the remainder of this
agreement. So this is a cost comparison of other cities. Uh you'll see so you have two by one by one. What that means is the first uh number is your number of solid waste pickups. Uh the next one is your recycling pickup times per week and then
the last one is your vegetation. How many times they pick up vegetation per week. Uh and you'll see that uh if we do the 22.19% uh well let me digress a little bit. The numbers that you see under the rate category those are number though that's
what those cities um charge their residents. You have some cities that pay their own disposal cost. So if you look at this the the disposal cost category, if it says paid, if it says city, that means that the city pays their own disposal
cost, which means you now have the t that disposal cost on to u the monthly rate to determine what their actual monthly charge is. Uh that's running about $4 on average is what we came up with. So if you take for example
Castleberry at $1838 and you tack on because they're paying their own disposal cost, if you tack on that $4, they're effectively charging their residents $22.38 uh per month. So that just kind of highlights where we are now. I know that Waste Pro articulated to commission
previously that if we were to go out, we'd likely get higher bids than what we're paying now. I can't speak to the to the to the likelihood of that. I don't know. Um, I'm not sure what the market would bear, but that is what we're currently paying right now.
Can Can you back up to where? Yeah, back up the slides. So, our current rate is 1974. Yes. Well, then I'm being overcharged on solid waste. I'm looking at my utility bill. It's
2472. I don't do the billing. We don't do Well, he don't do the billing, but that should be We'll have to look into it there. But it's 1974 is what we're charging. What is What is your department doing with the extra $5, Mr. Johnson? Well, you know, I keep trying to fix
these potholes, you know, trying to make up for the for the low utility rates. Um, which we don't even want to discuss that. But is that the 1974? Is that what we charge residents or is that what we pay waste? That's what we pay waste pro. Okay. And that should be what we're
talking there's a direct path that we don't we don't pay um uh disposal costs are included but we can get back to you. That's an important question to get an answer to. I'll double check. Only only about five
different people looked at this presentation and we all agreed. But I'll get back to you. And the only reason I know that is last night I pulled up my bill and was looking at other cities to see what their bills were. Okay. Well, we'll get back to you. It's not like I normally know how much I pay. Yeah. because I even confirmed this. Like I said, five other people received this presentation and my solid waste
manager confirmed it. Okay, I'll get back to you. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. We need to put in the budget bif focals for some folks. I already wear contacts. So, if it's really 24, then we'd be talking about it going up.
That changes a lot. It almost changes everything, but I I'll certainly send something out if that's the case. Uh, and so this is what we're looking at. And mind you, these are cities that have had long-term contracts with Waste Pro. Um, a lot of these cities haven't gone back out for service. I know one
did. I believe Lake Mary or somebody recently, Tim doesn't want to say effort. Okay, I'll let him speak to it, but one city did recently go out or in the last year or so, I believe, uh, went out for service uh, or went out for a
bid. Uh, and I'm not sure what that came back as. I had it but I didn't bring it with me. Uh and so what are the next steps? What we're looking for from commission because like I said we have to get ahead of that 2026 date. What we're looking for from commission is a consensus on
whether we uh desire to proceed with waste pro at that 22.19% rate increase. Uh and uh I would like to get um uh everyone's uh determination on uh the the the contract end date. Like I said,
they had uh they are of the opinion that that contract can be go can go beyond 2030. Uh it is my opinion and the city attorney's opinion that they cannot. And so like I said, uh we would like to get a consensus on whether or not uh we can proceed the 22.19%
and uh on whether or not that 2030 is firm in commission's mind. And you know also have sorry I should have mentioned that we also have Tim Dolan here from Waistro to answer any questions that you guys have from Waist Pro. I do have a couple questions probably
Tim but it might be the attorney who wrote the attachment that we got because it's about that. So in that attachment there's a section that talks about the CPI and it says between 2021 and 24 the average annual percent increase more
than tripled to 4.9% with a single year high of 8%. Do you happen to know when that single year high of 8% was? Was it 2021 or closer to 24? In other words, was it right after CO or later? It was later.
23 and 24 were the two big spike years. Okay. And another question, this this is just a kind of an information thing, but he seems pretty he or she or whoever seems adamant about saying that Swana cited Florida as particularly impacted
here. And having looked at the documentation, the only thing I saw was Florida with some images that happened to be in Florida and a couple of footnotes. But it didn't read to me that Florida was particularly impacted by this. Is are we talking about the like the
truck driver shortage? Yeah. Yeah. That that was that's a nationwide impact. So the the impacts and and I I want to make sure you know we're saying that these things were extraordinary. They weren't necessarily in some cases they were unique to us but they weren't
necessarily unique to us. So every everybody is suffering through the same economy equally. Okay. all everybody's been impacted, but again, everybody's been impacted. So, on the you know, the the truck driver thing is a little more unique um
because that impacts my industry, but it just impacts the truck driving industry in general. Okay, that doesn't Well, but I mean, but again, that has a ripple effect down to everything because groceries, furniture, everything gets
transported from one place to the other. And if the cost of transportation goes up for items, then it goes up for everybody. So it's just it was another driving force in in you know what's turned into the inflation the economy that we see today. I mean we all in in
the you know 2015 to 2020 era you know and even earlier than that you know we're used to the CPIs coming in every year at 1.2 1.4 1.6 six and then all of a sudden that became three point, four point, five point, six point um and that
was really over the last four years where the where the major spike took place and then why lot of things have come down there's still you know we mentioned the the CPI that was on the board there um the CPI the regular CPIU is tennis shoes, milk,
cookies, consumer goods. Okay, there are specific segmented CPIs for the garbage business. So there's a water, sewer, and trash index that is specifically geared towards the business, which has been running over 4%
every year. Um, which we get capped at the 4%. So there's there's different CPIs in there to grade different industries, so to speak. Okay. Um, one one other thing if I could point out the question came about with the rates that were for the contracts up
on the board. Every one of those contracts were signed um prior to 2021. Okay, they were all they were signed actually a long time ago, but they were renewed probably in the 2020 2021 range. Um, so there are
conversations going on with all of those cities right now. So that when their when their contract comes up for renewal, um, in many cases that we're talking about pricing and and how to get things to where they could possibly be.
Um, one example up there, they brought up long or long showed up there. They have the same service as you guys do. Their price and we just had the first reading um, last week. Second reading is going to be next week, but their their price effect of October 1st is going to
be 2818 per unit. And then for the next two years, it goes up $2 a unit plus the CPI. Um, now that's also going to be over a seven-year period, which is a little bit longer. So, we're we we actually talked to that city about
trying to ramp this up a little bit because if we can, and this is why I was, you know, I think that the contract period be longer, but the longer that contract period can be, the longer we can stretch out and increase to kind of smooth it out. Um, and again, that's
what that's what's on the table with them is a seven-year extension with extensions possibly beyond that. Okay. So that's that's all part of the conversations and we really haven't gotten into the details of the commercial mix versus the rolloff construction mix versus the residential
mix. So the these are all things that can be visited if we're allowed to negotiate with staff. And did you happen to have any conversations uh subsequent to the last time we talked about this with Charlie Pi and O composting just to see if just to see if Otown composting could save us
money in the long run? So I haven't had those conversations directly. Um, I did see the presentation that they had. I did see a presentation from from Winter Park. We're certainly I I don't I I don't see
any savings jumping out um and and there, but it it certainly can be part of the conversation if there's an interest in the city in pursuing. There was just a presentation today. Florida League of Cities just gave us one thing about a city in South Florida that's really been successful with that
and they've gone past the pilot program and the citizens are really in love with it. So, I'll send you that information. We can talk about that later, but I think my point here was that um you know, the guy lost a little credibility with me when he was trying to say something that may not necessarily have been true about Florida being
particularly impacted, but everything you just said to me, I trust. So, thank you for that, Tim. We we have I mean I could go on and on about labor and what we used to hire drivers for and and bonuses and retention and uh different things that have that are
that's a whole new world. Okay. Thank you. I'm going keep pushing. Any other questions? Okay. So we're looking for direction as to whether we go to bid or pursue with well
and to me it comes down to I mean I'm 100% satisfied with the service. Well, do we have a comfortable level that whatever we do with them in terms of rates is well I wouldn't say at this point may it's about whether we go out to bid. I
think it's about whether or not um we approve or we're willing to uh uh consider or approve that rate increase. If we if we aren't willing to uh agree to that rate increase, then it's up to Waste Pro to decide whether or not uh they're willing to continue to provide service f services beyond 2026. And
that's really the question because you may say, well, we don't want to do that rate increase or maybe we want to do a smaller rate increase and it's up to Waste Pro to make the determination on uh whether they want to continue to provide service, which I'm kind of leaning toward a
little bit of being uh good to all of our citizens and maybe a compromise of slightly less of an increase. I still want waste pro. They do a fabulous job, but take that kind of a hit might be a bit much. And mayor, you are paying a little bit more. That's for administrative fees. I
especially for our I vote I vote for art to continue paying more. Just Well, not in fact, charge him 30% and the rest of us will pay you 20 additional. So the the additional monies beyond what was shown on that chart is for administrative fees.
Yeah. Okay. So well we need to know the true cost we're charging our residents and the true cost that other cities are charging their residents. And you know, one of the
questions for me is going to be is is our rate comparable to what others are paying? I know in other cities they're using um partial or fully automatic um trucks to to put the the cans in. We
haven't been able to do that because we use so many alleys. Um, but you know, I I need to know that the rate we're paying is is a fair rate compared to what other cities are paying.
Well, and and have a comfort level that and and I really question if going out to bid gets us a better price, right, or product. You But you just made me think of something there. that some of those cities have uh uh containers
and we don't have those. Yes. And so so that's part of their price compared to our price. So yes, there's a whole lot here that uh isn't apples to apples. Um and I had the discussion with with with staff today earlier and and we do get a
great I mean I'm not advocating for ways once again, but we do get a great service from them uh for that price. I mean, I I drive the streets all the time, and I'm sure you do as well, and you see people just throw out anything they want on the curb, and Waste Pro picks it up, and they take it. So, so that's an added benefit. So,
no, it uh this the the service uh is unquestioned. Uh the fact that they are actually located here in Sanford and pay taxes is without question and employ our citizens and employ our citizens. Um they're great partners with uh many events uh
that the city does. Um that doesn't mean that we pay them more than we should be paying for this service. I'm not saying that uh for those that are listening. Yeah, I don't think they're getting rich off of us, right? But they're not getting rich off of us as we saw those numbers.
Um so there's a balance in all this. Um I would like I I did the math earlier. I think 2030 is is a fair calculation of when the contract absolutely 100% ends. Um if if there is a consideration of
extending the contract and and ramping those fees as uh Mr. Dola mentioned, perhaps that's something we should uh to look at. So maybe it's not a drastic increase uh at first. Maybe maybe it's a gradual
um I don't know if that's possible or not, but it's it's what I understood him to say. So, is it possible for us to Well, based upon the the language in the contract, it ends in 2030. It doesn't mean that we can't negotiate
some longer period and for a benefit to the city. The second part of that is should mayor and commissioners you decide to increase the rate, I do not believe it should be on the basis of section 13 of extraordinary
circumstances because I don't see extraordinary circumstances having been met. Um, by Mr. Dolan's own words, everyone is suffering from the same economy. So, it sounds as though, you know, we're talking about COVID now. had waste pro come in the midst of COVID and
said, you know, half of our workforce is out sick, etc., that would be another conversation. But using COVID four or five years later, um using um issues with regard to being able to get in goods and services, those are things that everybody who gets up every day is
having to do. And I would not want um to set that sort of precedent that that is what we're going to look to to determine extraordinary circumstances. So if we want to make this based upon a business decision that we think long-term quality
of service, all those issues after 2026, then let's have that conversation. But I do not think that the um standard has been met to say that these that they've set forth um are extraordinary circumstances. Everyone won't be able to get their Christmas gifts because of
tariffs, right? That's this is just where we are. But are we able to negotiate new rates under the contract and under our purchasing rules
that I can get with purchasing? I think at this point we need some direction which I believe you've already given us. First we need to figure out what are the true rates, right? Start there. figure out what the true rates are, do comparisons as to other entities that are similarly
situated and then we can begin had to have that conversation with weights pro about rates and moving forward. I would also want to add that with regard to some spikes in the CPI, all of that. Um, mayor and members of the commission,
some of that has been con cushioned by some of the good faith gestures that you've already given, the increase of the CPI, the disposal cost. Not saying that that's a cost of business. So, you've already cushioned some of that in your dealings with Waste Pro.
I went up a little bit now. What else is everything? I'm not talking about No, but that's where I was going with this too. This is not great timing to
add one more increase to the citizens. else. Well, I know that we're due at some point soon to come back before commission for a possible uh rate which was already mentioned last year. Possible rate increase for utilities as well again. We just did one
that was almost a year ago. That was Yeah, just the other day. Okay. Um Tim has something else to say, but are we because from a timing perspective here I'm thinking about Tim you raised a
good point about the potential impact of tariffs but we don't know exactly what they are yet. So one of my thoughts was if we did have an opportunity to discuss rates before the end of the contract but after we have a better sense of how the tariffs are hitting us.
So um just a couple of things. First of all, what we're talking about, I mean, we have a contract through, I think, June 1st of 26. So, we're not talking about making any changes until then. So, this is a bit off in the distance. Um, the other thing, and I I don't know if
there's a there's terminology in there right now, but there's something in there called a basically a like a favored nations clause. Okay? which basically we can put language in the agreement that if I if I enter into an agreement that's more favorable with
another municipality in the county afterwards then the agreement can come back and be revisited. Now that's not going to happen. I've never I I I'm just telling you that I I spend a lot of time making sure that you know everybody's working under the same set
of rules and and you know whatever. Um but it is legal language to put in where um you know if you felt that I offered a better deal to another city um going forward and in a in a renewed agreement that you know we could come back and
look at would that would that predicate a decrease in in pricing to the city. So there is there is some language in there that's pretty common in these agreements that uh that that does offer a protection if there's concern about
looking off into the future. And again the the um what I'm talking about doing and and and again we we've not really gotten very deep into the agreement. We talked about you know landfill increases versus CPIs. Those can be segmented um so that there is no
question about what applies to each where you apply a landfill increase straight to the landfill component. You apply a CPI to the operating component of the contract. Um again, there's the mix of what you charge commercial versus temporary rolloff versus residential and
the ability to stretch that out or to to smooth that out over several years based on the length of the term of the contract. So there there's there's an awful lot of things that can be discussed that haven't been gotten into in great detail yet. Okay. Commissioner Austin, do you have something?
Yeah. Uh I would like I I would like somebody giving me the numbers of how many residences you service. Uh so I can figure out what that total amount is. Uh because another aspect to this is um some municipalities actually
don't even charge their residents. they just it it's just uh part of their taxes. Um and so I'm just curious what the total amount is that's paid to serve pro um and what that looks like.
So there's there's two ways there's two ways generally we see of billing with these type contracts. One is what you're doing right now which is people get their um on their water bill they get a they get build every month and and pay
every month. Um, as you heard, uh, Mayor Woodruff and the in the seminal leadership meeting the other day when, uh, Brian Sack at the mayor for Longwood was talking about how half of their residents aren't on the water system and half of them are or or I think it's
about 20% that aren't on the water system and they have great difficulties in collecting the money because they don't control the the water in in that particular city. And now when your water gets shut off, boy, your garbage bill
gets paid pretty quickly. Um, in that particular instance, they're actually considering something that Seminal County does. I believe Castlebury does, which it's an adorum tax um that basically you get on your property tax and it bills you for your garbage service for the year. That's just
another way of managing um the the billing and collections where you attach it to somebody's property. But Sino County, you pay the whole year at one time. Yeah. right? It's on your tax bill, right? So that that that just becomes really a decision, you know, for for you
all to decide how you want to move forward with that or change or keep it the same, but those are predominantly the two billing systems that are set up. All right. Um well, I think we're we're
willing to negotiate um with new rates. Um I'm I think that it is um calling some of the the changes that have occurred um
extraordinary circumstances. But, you know, in retrospect, what were we thinking? You know, how many years ago when we wrote the contract um that there wasn't room in the the contract to to negotiate rates um
because I'm concerned that if we don't do it under what's in the contract, we we don't have the ability to change rates. So, and and another thing that we have to consider as well when we bring you all back that that more detailed comparison
of other cities. Uh we have to be mindful of the fact that commercial oftent times offsets the residential rate that you pay. And so we may bring you we don't want to bring you a city like Longwood who doesn't have the amount of commercial that we have. Uh we don't want to bring you Orange City
which is much smaller and and doesn't have the commercial. So, um, we're going to try our best to do apples to apples because we do have a really large commercial base that should then offset that residential rate because they don't get rich off of residential as you mentioned. Uh, it's the commercial where they really make the money, but the
commercial also offsets that residential rate. And so, we'll do our best uh to bring back to you all uh similar makeup, not necessarily size because we're the biggest city in Semino County, but um of similar makeup with respect to percentage of commercial versus
residential. And to answer, mayor, to answer your question, section 13 of the contract does not say that city commission that you all can't increase it. What it says is this is the rate. Don't disturb it, but we're going to give you this limited out to disturb it if you can establish extraordinary
circumstances, but it doesn't prohibit um us from having these negotiation conversations. But it was really just to make sure that there was continuity and that there was a sense of uh consistency with regard to the rates. All right. So, we can do that without setting this
new term for what's extraordinary. All right. Anything else? All right. Thank you. Thank Thank you all very much. Thank you, Tim. And Brent. Okay. Anything else? Uh, nothing else unless the commission had any questions
about meeting agenda items tonight. Staff can provide any information or answer any questions for you all. Are we at that point? Do you have any question? Well, start off with do you have any questions on the agenda?
I would like to mention that um consent fee for the toy drive is being pulled from the agenda tonight as well. Okay, Tracy. My consent e is points and balls.
[Music] Christmas toy drive. I've got that as B. B is toy drive. Is that what you said? B. Yeah. Oh, I just can't hear that. All right. Thank you. B is in boy. Got it.
I thought there was something I wanted. Um I do have a couple of questions. Um one on a which is the battalion chief that would um the temporary battalion chief that starts immediately.
Oh, you're on 10 A. On 10 A. Ronnie McNeil, fire chief. Yes, that's for EMS battalion. He's retiring in April. So, we're trying to get somebody to shadow him to be able to get that. He's the Ryan White officer for the fire police, basically the whole
city. So, he has a lot of different roles. Okay. And so, but so that starts essentially immediately. So, we'll have to Yeah, we're going to still post it, get interviews. So be October, Novemberish time they get on. All right.
Yeah, we haven't made any. Okay. I was looking at the September to April time frame as you have to go through a promotional process, don't you? Yeah. So, it takes time. Yeah. We still got to post it and everything else. All right. Thank you. Yep. And then
uh Brady, are you still here? the um consulting services on the hotel. Yes, mayor commission Brady Lassard with economic development. Why is that us and Simino County? So, this was an initiative brought to us
by their TDC folks, Geek Kunha in this case. Um and this is to evaluate the subm market out around the airport. Uh they had asked us to participate on updating a study that predates my being here. Um city manager and I agreed to
that about three months ago now. Um why is the interlocal um required? No. Why I did I mean I Why are we doing why in the airport?
Mayor, that my proposal was that if nothing else, the airport should have been part of a triparty funding of the agreement that was not offered by the airport. Okay. and um your honest assessment of whether it's
our job to to do a a study like this for a hotel and don't hotels do this themselves? My I would say that this makes us a partner
with Semino County as they evaluate significant improvements that they're looking at the indoor facility that was mentioned earlier. There's a couple uh horizontal improvements that they're looking to make out there. Uh we were asked by the county to participate in that as they evaluated the whole area.
So uh my primary default position is the private sector should always shoulder this. In this case, uh, the county is using it as part of an overall marketing effort that they're making as they evaluate both the indoor complex and the
I can share with you some of the other improvements that are being looked at at Bumba off the record. Okay. All right. Thank you. What do you mean by submarket? uh the subm market in this case uh Commissioner Austin this doveetailed off
a study that was done I believe in 2021 for the particular Lake Mary uh corridor okay adjacent to the airport market but is there a primary beneficiary uh as the airport absolutely
so what's done with the results of this we are we going to go out and and solicit hotels with this that's semino countyy's effort is They're evaluating a number of offers that have come in, unsolicited proposals. I I would qualify them as
that are looking to uh develop property that will be within on our tax base um adjacent to the indoor complex as well as uh some improvements that are being looked at at the Bumba complex on some excess property that the county owns uh
in that vicinity. So, this isn't necessarily about a hotel at the airport. on property, sir? No. Okay. Because that doesn't benefit us at all, right? No. Even if it's on the prop, even though it's on airport property, we would get property taxes from it, I believe.
Correct. Because it's not an aeronautical. But this particular look is as you come around East Lake Mary Boulevard, as you pass Bumba, uh, continue heading what would end up being north at that indoor complex area. Have we ever done a study like that for
downtown? because so many people think we should have a hotel downtown, but I don't know. I don't I don't know that I agree with that. So, Commissioner, I will share with you that the city has volumes and volumes of studies that have been done in the years past. Uh, one of those was a downtown
study. Uh, that mayor probably remembers. This was primarily an evaluation of the courthouse uh site or the parking lot that the city owns uh directly east of the courthouse. Okay. Uh, that assessment was made as well. Okay. Okay. So, the intent on this though
would be to go shop it to hotels to bring one in. Correct. Okay. With the primary driver of that effort being the county. Uh the county float on that indoor facility uh is significantly north of $20 million and some of the
horizontal improvements that they're looking to make around Bumba. Booma, by the way, named the number one baseball complex for youth sports in America. Newsweek just came out with that about three or four months ago. Uh the driver of booma to heads and beds is massive.
Yeah. For seminal county. The reason why I asked what I asked is I know there's already a hotel that's uh near completion. Correct. And others supposedly coming. So talking about hotels out there for a very
I know. I know. Well, uh, I will share with you that was one of the primary goals I had, and I shared this with the mayor when I came on board here, was the horizontal improvements, the subterranean improvements for that hotel had been made many years ago. It sat dormant, right? Uh, we were able to put them in touch
with both the Allegent folks, contacts we had with Allegant as well as with the Booma operating staff. They had some concerns about the market out there. Allegent and Boomba uh were able to allay their fears, so they went vertical. and that is they're looking to
open that in Novemberish uh December of this year. So that'll bring 115 rooms online. Beautiful uh property, right? Tilt wall construction, which was interesting to me, but uh that implies that it's built to last and and the investments that they'll make on the
interior finishes are stronger than uh one might expect. Okay. All right. Thank you. Anything else on agenda items? Okay. Um, I'm pretty sure we're going to do it because you guys did an amazing job last
year, but I just want to make sure that we do it this time. I believe it was the mayor and Cindy that really broke down the millage rate. And since that's we're be going to be doing the first public hearing, um, I think Cindy like quarterbacked it and she talked about
like what the tax rate is used for and how you use it to calculate the property tax. And then the mayor, you came back and broke it down because people were confused about the city of Sanford having the highest tax rate versus how much taxes that we're paying and people love to say that part. So I was just
hoping that we again clarify for the public. I do have that chart. Okay. Yeah, Cindy has a PowerPoint presentation prepared. I know. I'm just last year. I just wanted to make sure that like sometimes you can put it up there or whatever, but they we pulled it out last time and
really broke it down so that the public understood it up a little bit. Well, yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, anything else, Commissioner? Yes. So, um and maybe um Attorney Green,
you can shed light on this and tell me if you know our seat as a commission overstep. um been working really hard with Mr. Lassard and the business owner of 1219 Park Avenue and they went before planning and zoning um historic
preservation. I was informed that the approval was overturned at the last planning and zoning meeting. Um I'm really concerned about that how that was overturned. What is the city's commission's stance now? like what's
what's in our authority help shed light on that? Absolutely. So, it was not overturned. Okay. Um the board there was a motion made during the board meeting to reconsider the previous decision. Um that was
seconded. It it went forward. there is a procedure which at the next meeting if there is a belief that it is necess if there's a motion and a second then an action that has been taken can be reconsidered it was continued to the next meeting to address that motion. Um,
I can tell you that the the basis for the motion for reconsideration in part had to do with whether there was a clarification as to what the conditions were as part of the original decision. Um if
if you've listened to the recording, there was some one of the uh board members was concerned that um board members at the on the deis were maybe overtalking on staff and it wasn't clear as to what conditions were and so that
particular board member f uh moved to reconsider. It was second it was passed. So it has not been denied. It has not been thrown out. Now what I will also say is there is an order that has been drafted that sets forth in my view what
the clear conditions are. I don't believe that the uh property owner is negated from and Eileen is here from signing that order which I believe clarifies what the testimony was and what the conditions were and that may be a streamline way to to address it but it
has not been uh overhauled or denied or reversed. Okay. But it was originally approved. Yes. Okay. So where do where are we like in just layman's turn where we're gonna let the process ride itself out. At the next meeting there will be
discussion and determination as to whether to further reconsider the ruling whether it will be approved or denied. I I don't know where the board is going to go with that. Okay. From my view, because I was present at that meeting, it seemed more
of wanting clarification as to what exactly transpired, what exactly were the conditions um that were agreed to or that were to be imposed with regard to this development. Okay. Again, there there's an order which sets
that forth. Eileen, if you want to speak to this issue at all. Does this hold up the the process for development? Like ultimately it it slows it down but it slows it down to to the next meeting and in my view to clarify
exactly what the conditions are and and what is going to be the terms and obligations may be worth it. So my understanding was the motion to reconsider did pass. Yes. At the next meeting they will be considering the development
that application. Yes. Okay. All right. That was already approved. Yes. Right. But did you listen to the meeting? No, I have. All right. I was asking so I'd know whether to say something else about it. And this is something that mayor and commissioners, you also continue to have
a right to do, right? You can always at the next meeting. Not that this is something you do arbitrarily, but there is a process for which to move to reconsider a previous decision. This is what the board did. It will be determined at that next meeting. But
only if you were present at the previous vote. No, there's there's no limitation. Anyone who's because this entire application will be adjudicated. Information will be presented. No, I'm saying maybe I didn't ask it
right. I know what your question is. Okay. Our rules specify that it's someone on the prevailing side or somebody who was absent. Oh, so it can be somebody that was our our rules. I don't know. And I sent
you this question. Um, do those rules apply also to the planning and zone as to whether I'm sorry, make sure I understand the question. Okay. Our our specific rules for the city commission meetings are it can be
someone on the prevailing side or somebody not at the meeting. I don't know if PNZ has their own rules or if the rules adopted for this board flow down to all other boards. I did not see that in the in the PNZ rules as to that aspect, but I I will
clarify that way before the next meeting. All right. But in my opinion, Eve, the the PNC jump to a decision without going to the time of of clarifying if there were
conditions. U Mr. Chase did an excellent job I thought of presenting his case and in many cases cl you know cleared up a lot of the questions that I think there were um you know and so that's what was going into the development order. Uh my
guess is either way this might have gone back to PNC anyway. So I think it's it's probably yeah ultimately it would likely faster, right? And ultimately, it would have likely gone back to PNZ because if there
was confusion or misclification as to what the conditions are and then the property owner begins the development and starts working with staff and then it becomes apparent that there's confusion, then that's going to slow down the process because then it's going to have to go back to P&Z for clarification as to what the conditions
are. Ultimately, I think this is the most efficient way to handle it, which is if there's some confusion or miscommunication or disagreement as to what the conditions are at this next meeting, it will be clarified.
Makes sense to me. My question is is how did we prevent this from happening in the future to where if it gets approved and h how did we miss all of the the conditions and everything? I mean, in order to approve it, we I don't think that the conditions it
it's very important um to and and I know everyone's busy. This was a this was an anomaly situation. Um I think it has a lot to do with educating the board, which which I am doing.
Um but there was a lot of talking over. There was a lot of not digesting. There was a lot of staff is presenting and information being or staff was in the middle of presentation when a motion was being made. Oh my goodness gracious.
I'm listen. And so what' you say? It was not the most impressive PNG. Okay. Was this the last one? The one before that. Okay. Cuz I listen when you walk out of that forum and the question so what what actually got
passed it was indicative and the result of what transpired at the meeting. Again, it is not the job of the boards to rubber stamp what staff recommends, what staff says. I do recommend you listen at least so that you can
adjudicate that and then make an educated decision. And when there's talking over, there's interruptions, etc., you walk out with what was left with and that's not the fault of the property owner, right? And you know there there's
inconvenience there but ultimately I think this process working out the way it will will be very clear as to where the property owner will be moving forward to. Thank you. Anything else commission? No sir.
Uh open uh minutes. Yeah, those are a work in progress. Okay. Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything. Yes, I'm still by myself. So, you're still by herself and we're giving her lots of grace.
Okay. Okay. Um I have a couple of things. And um how much time do I have? Oh, I got lots of time. Um, first of all, I'm wondering if we should sort of take the temperature
of the commission on the um fire assessment. Yes, we should. So, I'm expect I mean, we have all seen lots of emails. I I imagine I don't know how y'all have responded to them. I have
um as usual, tried to do my best to explain the facts. Um, which in many cases was taken as advocacy. Um, but and I guess I'm being sort of selfish
here. Um, if if we're not I have to be careful here. We're at a work session. Yes. How much discussion should we have before we allow however many people want
to come speak about it speak? Do we want to have a little conversation amongst ourselves tonight before public comment or do we want to hold that until after public comment? I think before because I think um questions may be
answered from listening to the commission asking questions because I think we've all seen the emails and um and social media posts and one-on-one conversations. And then also we are residents too.
Sometimes people forget that who would have to pay the fee as well. Um, I liked when you talked about your water bill because that increase and that that uh waste pro you you're not exempt from it as the mayor. So, I think having that question prior
to I mean having that conversation prior to may eliminate some of the redundant same. Okay. Followed by of course additional discussion when we come to a vote. Yes. Much like my complaints for the last 600
years I've been up here. um we don't communicate well what we're doing, why it's being done, how it's being done, and what got us here. Um so yes, I think there should be some discussion before
maybe to maybe to help some understand better, maybe to to help ease some of the negativity towards it. Um but that's and add as much clarity as we can. It's just uh I told y'all it was a hard sell.
I'm not even worried I'm not understand it. Yeah. I'm not even worried about selling it. I'm worried about uh the the misperceptions and and and stuff. People don't understand that we uh we we are required to have a balanced
budget every year. We are not the federal government. We're not the state. Um, and so I just think there's some basic misperceptions along the way. Maybe uh some discussion ahead of time. The other the other I I've got I had
some ideas. I was going to ask uh attorney Green and and uh Assistant City Manager ahead of time. I I had some ideas in my head how uh I wanted to do some things this evening and I still don't know how I'm going to
do them. But um I I I just all of this is very hard. Um and sometimes it's even hard for us up here. Um, so if you're not up here every meeting, if you're not at every workshop, if you're not taking
additional classes like some of us have done or a lot of us have done, if you're not going to additional conferences like a lot of us have done, you really don't grasp all of this. And so it's quick and easy to make
these these brash uh judgments of what's going on and make these brash decisions of why we why this is bad or that's good or this seem brash to the public. Right. So, uh yes, I think we should have discussion ahead of time. I would like to have some staff here to to maybe ask
some questions um and and then proceed. Okay. All right. Definitely agree with that commission. Um, tomorrow Pamela and I and Main Street and some people from the CRA are meeting with a
company called Retail Strategies. I mentioned that I went to their session. Um, we're specifically um looking at they have a basically a small business training program um that we want to look at possibly
offering to our businesses. um and the CRA may be able to fund that for us. It's um $30,000 a year for however many businesses want to participate. So, um it's all online. Um I've previewed some
of it. It you know, my comment to the to the person was I'm a teacher. I've seen re lots of really bad programs and before I share this with anybody, I want to see it myself. Yeah. Um, so that um I'm continuing to
try to come up with some modifications for what we're doing with the air show. That remains to be seen how that turns out. Um, who's taking lead on making sure we're signed up for sofas and suds?
I guess I will be okay. The commission should have a sofa. I think I think it's great that our staff participates in that. So, we'll have two sofas this year.
Tony, we'll put our sofa up against yours. Get another sofa. We'll put up ours against yours. If we're out there, it may turn into demolition derby. Well, that very cool could well be. If I'm out there, you better have the fire department on
Um, and that's all I have. So, unless anyone has anything else, we are ajourned. Okay. Great job, Craig.
Thank you, Mr.