--------- and we are moving on it uh now. So, he'll tell you about the project and a little bit of how we got to where we are today and then we're happy to answer questions uh and join Darren in a few. >> Thank you, Michelle, and thank you, mayor, and commissioners for the
opportunity to be here to talk about the uh seminal connector, State Route 452, formerly known as the 417 Sanford Airport connector. Again, my name is Will Hawthorne. I serve as the director of transportation planning and policy at the Central Florida Expressway
Authority. Uh, and I was a project manager for the Expressway Authority on this project in the PD&E study. So, this slide kind of summarizes the corridor history that Darren and Michelle touched on. Uh, the idea of this corridor or a connection of this
type has been around since 2003 going back 23 years. Um, it's looked into various different forms going all the way up to 95. Like Michelle said, it's also been looked at some other smaller truncated versions of it. Uh which brings us up to today. The
PD& study we just wrapped up was the uh pretty much a connection between 417 and Red Cleveland and East Lake Mary Boulevard. So this slide uh hopefully it will work. Okay. So, this will loop a few times and the purpose of this is to kind of give
you an idea of the growth that has happened since the idea of this connection has been around. And if you look at Sanford Avenue points east, you can see the numerous uh residential developments north of 46, the extension
of East Lake Mary Boulevard in the developments that came around uh as a result. So that's kind of the uh the purpose and need of this, why we did the study in the first place. You can see it's it's a rapidly growing area and opportunities
for a connector like this are closing with every every day. So before we get into the project benefits, I want to give you an idea of what the regional picture looks like. And what that starts off with is by our our horizon year for the study was 2050
and by 2050 Simol County is going to grow by another 21%. Um, additionally, when we kicked off the study in 2024, just in the study area, kind of the picture you see here, there were 10 developments either in the works for entitlements or actually being
constructed. That's a very high density for something this small for this small of an area. Um, and then that combined with the growth at the airport in less than 15 years, they're projected to double in size. And last but not least, with all of that growth comes the
traffic. And for example, the traffic at the airport entrance is expected to almost double by the year 2050. And on East Lake Mary Boulevard, that's expected to increase by 50%, which is roughly another 12,000 cars by the year
2050. Which brings us to the project benefits of the State Route 452 seminal connector. Uh this project would divert regional and airport traffic off of East Lake Mary Boulevard and off of Ronald Reagan Boulevard, uh reducing congestion
on local streets. It also creates a direct access into the airport um for passengers, employees and airport logistics. It builds a regional need for uh network continuity and it also provides an alternate route for
emergency response and even um emergency evacuations. And lastly, uh freight is a big component of the Sanford International Airport. This would provide them pretty much unimpeded access into and out of the airport to and from to and from points to the
south. This slide is a little hard to see, but basically what it summarizes are the the signal operation or the the intersection operations from State Route 417 all the way over to Red Cleveland Boulevard and even one signal beyond. In the year
2050, the in the callouts, you'll see the the letters uh anything above a D is unacceptable or very long or extremely long delays at an intersection. Uh much of those are at a E or an F. Now, with this project, this on the on the left is
the AM peak hour and on the right is the afternoon traffic or the you know the the PM peak hour. With this project, you see improvements in times of 48 to 78%. Now, that doesn't take every intersection from an F to a B or a D,
but that's just this project benefit alone. That doesn't consider any other local improvements on East Lake Mary Boulevard, Ronald Reagan, or other things. That's just how this project benefits this relatively small corridor. Now, what we're building, uh, this is
not a full expressway, a typical expressway that CFX would build, um, four lanes in each direction, 70 miles an hour. This is a reduced typical. It's 150 ft wide. The design speed is 45 mph and it's posted it would be posted at 45
m an hour. Uh also what you see here um the outer outer width or the the fence on each side. That's essentially the max width we would ever need. We've designed this so that we can widen to the inside if we ever needed four lanes uh total, two in each direction. That can be
accommodated in the median that you see here. So there for the general um corridor there would be no more uh rightaway acquisitions needed once this gets into design. Project costs are split up into four main categories. We've got the
construction engineering and the utility relocation rightways and even uh the mitigations all totaling about $200 million. And then again this is the uh this is the alignment with the to projected total revenues of about $ 48 million uh
over 40 year bondable period and then we take that and we back it into the project costs and you can see the viability shortfall that we had in October which was 24%. Once our board approved that preferred alternative, it wasn't long after that that Simino
County reached out to us and talked about this interlocal agreement which has brought that viability up to where we can move it forward as a project and we even uh put it into our 5-year work plan as Michelle said. Now the I'll give you this slide combines some of the interlocal
deadlines as well as the project deadlines. As as I said earlier, we are going to advertise uh right at right at a month from now. May 11th, I believe is the date. We'll put that out for an engineering design consultant and that'll go to our October board this
year and we'll start design the very next month. And then from there, uh we'll work our way towards construction. And uh those dates are those are our deadline dates. We we have dates that we're going to endeavor to beat. Um we're looking to have this open around
2031 2032 but we have those dates to kind of provide us some uh insurance with regards to permitting. So it is something that is kind of a top priority especially in Simol County and uh this is the project milestone that we have
right now. I don't dare. Do you have anything else or so? >> All right. Thank you, Will. We go to the next slide. >> Thank you. So, what are the benefits of the connector? And um just as I alluded
to in the beginning of the presentation, you again I don't have to tell you what's happening at this uh Sanford airport. A lot of activities going on there. A lot of comp a few companies are interested in in moving there. Our Bumba Sports Complex already, as you know, drives a lot of visitors and the tourism
economy. Our proposed indoor sports facility. Um, we're plann that will as it moves forward will be complete in three years as we're as the project moves forward. Um, and then what you all are doing down on the East Lake Mary Boulevard uh with uh your growth with
the residential and commercial properties along that that corridor. And I we just got these numbers in not too long ago with our indoor sports facility. This is what the additional on the East Lake Mary Boulevard uh will will will host, if you will. Uh that indoor sports uh complex is looking to
have over 300,000 annual visitors come to that that facility. We're looking it to be about 140 150,000 square feet. It's going to have 12 basketball courts. Can you know you can convert that into 22 volleyball courts. Um hopefully we we're working with the school board to
host graduations at the facility as well. All those are in uh talks are going on. 38,000 room hotel hotel room nights. And this is the big number. It's over $2 billion worth of long-term economic impact to the region. Not only to the city of Sanford, to the county,
but it's to the business owners here um both of the county and this in the city um in Simo in Simo County. So uh huge huge asset to us. So I was so how does this work and I call it the share investment approach that um our board would like uh us to
venture on. As you saw the total project cost uh from Will's presentation Michelle's was 200 million there uh in that pres in their funding is 150 million of that as you saw that uh with the PD&E study that just came out. the
county commission. Um, when we were looking to renew the fourth cent uh or the fourth generation, the 1 cent sales tax, we actually earmarked uh 25 million into our new projects for transportation. We knew that there would be a gap uh somewhere in this uh for
this project. Uh it wasn't like it was unknown. We knew that there would be a gap somehow. So, we wanted to earmark some some money for that. And so, how do we make up that that the last 25 million? And so what I am doing is working with four four of the cities here in Simino County. Of course you all
Lake Mary, Winter Springs, and Obito. And they're all over the next two weeks. I get to go and visit all all the councils. Um so what it looks like so the what we would like what we're proposing with an interlocal agreement is you know the county commission last
summer approved the 5-cent local option gas tax. The additional gas tax. Right now you get gas the local option gas tax. we've had it for forever. Um that's distributed by a formula that the department of revenue at the that the state dictates. Um and then there's an
option to add another 5 cents and the board of county commissioners did that last year and they had to do it by a supermajority vote which they did um with that. So we have not re well we just actually I should say we just started we just started receiving those revenues. Um they actually started collecting in January. Anyone knows if
you're in finance and local government, it usually takes a couple months before those revenues start start coming in. So, what we what our request is is to look at the new money that you all will be getting getting in and sharing that
with the county up to 10 years and it may not even it may not be 10 years. And so the offer that we want to make sure is on the table that as we look for other funding opportunities, grants, other things uh to that nature that we
would that we will proportionately reduce the city's portion. The county's put in 25 million. We're going to keep 25 uh million. We're not going to reduce ours. Um in fact, we've already sent that to uh CFX already to move this process forward so they can go ahead and start with design. And so what we're
asking the four cities is to enter it into an interlocal agreement with the county uh for that addition for your additional local option gas tax um up to 10 years may not be and we will I believe as uh Norton and I can we've
talked we could do an annual report or however you know I can work out with the cities is that we'll as additional revenues come in we can reduce that amount uh with the four participating cities as well. So, uh, that would be our our request
and we are here to answer any questions that you have. >> Okay. Um, I've got several in there for >> both. Sure. >> Both teams. Um, CFX. Has this been done before where there were local contributions um to road building?
>> It's done a lot. Yes, a lot. I mean, I could sit here and run off a bunch of projects. I mean, we've got a project right now with the county uh with Oyola County. We just partnered with DOT. We partnered with the city of Orlando. Um
we have uh we're about to the county of Lake County has just done something and it goes to our board in June. So, transportation projects today, um, it takes partnerships to get to get
things done. And, um, and it's, you know, that's what we're we're about is how can we meet the needs of our residents and visitors to our region with all of us working together. So, this is common for us. Yes, sir. >> Thank you.
Um Darren, it's or I don't know if it's Darren or not that will answer this one. Um would this money be bonded or since it's over time to to fund the project or >> and and my follow-up question to that is
if it's being bonded, >> we're not bonding specifically the contribution that the county has uh pledged to us. However, the way we work with our toll revenues, those those dollars are bonded. >> Okay. >> Since this revenue would come in over 8
to 10 years, >> good good question. So, in the um interlocal agreement we have with CFX, we immediately forwarded them 25 million for half the gap. In 2028, the other 25 million um is is needed to to pay and the county is willing to uh to do that
one as well, knowing that we will get reimbursed over the next 10 years. >> Okay. And um and then in the studies, was anything done to look at um how this will affect traffic on West Lake Mary Boulevard?
West of 1792? >> Traffic on West like west of 417. >> Um west of 1792 out towards between well between 417 and I4. Uh the model we have covers that this our whole region. Um we didn't look at
that specific area to see how it would improve. Uh a lot of this traffic is going two points east and north. So kind of everything on East Lake Mary Boulevard and then even up into Valuchia County. So we'd be happy to take a look at that. >> And I just mentioned because I've
noticed um there is a significant backup on Lake Mary Boulevard headed east from >> and I've had conversations traffic at Ronald Reagan. >> Yes. And I've had conversations with the city of Lake Mary and that's why they're interested in this as well. Um because it definitely will relieve traffic going
through uh West Lake Lake Mary Boulevard through their their through town. >> Okay. All right. >> That's my questions for now. I'll open it. >> I think this might be a Darren question. Um and thanks for the information you've already provided us.
So, if I were an average citizen hearing this information, I think you're saying that this 5% additional gas tax you are proposing the county and then we city residents would be paying a portion of
that through taxes. >> Yes. Through the gas tax. >> So, every citizen would be paying some additional money in gas tax for this connector whether they ever use it or not. >> No, only it. So, how gas tax works it's it's the you it's a user tax. So if you if you pay it at the pump basically and
so those monies then are you know sent up the taxes are sent up to Tallahassee to the department of revenue and by a distribution formula they go back so they they come back to the to the counties and so they >> still pay at the pump. >> Correct. >> Whether they're at a pump on the on this
road or not. >> Correct. Okay. And so and visitors, anyone that's coming through our our county pay almost like I use the same scenario as the one penny sales tax is that yes, our residents and business owners will will pay, but also 30% of that gets paid from the one penny. It
gets paid for people that don't live in Simol County. So people come through our county every day in our cities to buy gas. So they'll be uh actually contributing to it as well. >> Okay. And I think you might have already answered this question in other meetings, but um again for the sake of
the people we represent, >> there were numerous options for this connector. There was a lot of discussion or comments about the fact or not the fact that but a lot of people would look at what's happened where we are now and say you had public meetings. Was it even
worth going to the meetings because you all were going to do this anyway? I mean that's the reality. We hear that. I I hope and I think this is what you and I were talking about is that's what helped narrow it down to the root that we have now. But I also want to hear you
say that you did consider the possibility that given all of the feedback from the public. You discussed an option not to do this at all. AB: >> Absolutely. That was part of it and they probably can walk through that that process with you CFX. >> Yeah. So the
>> because I look at that as kind of option six that really wasn't on any of the presentations. >> Correct. So the preferred alternative the the project alignment that you have is something that we added in towards the end of the study. It was a refinement of alignment two which is
where 2A I don't know if it's labeled like that on your handout but you're correct. It it is something we got a lot of feedback. uh we went back to the drawing board and we we actually we said, "Yeah, there is a there is a better way. We can have less wetland impacts for those that go through this
area." And we we geared up. We had a new um alternatives public meeting to compare that to what we were left with, which was two. Uh and that's what you have in front of you, which is 2A. So, it it was a refinement. We did we don't typically have two alternative workshops
in a PD study that we do. uh we did on this study and we still did it within right over a year. So it is something that we reacted to fast and I went I was at the public meeting >> and um you know it's something that was a refinement. It it was it was better
across the board. >> Okay. >> Taking in all the the uh feedback. >> We're still cutting through the middle of it to a 1800 built house, but I know you've talked to that resident about that. >> Yeah, we did speak. And there are plans to
it's still it it still breaks my heart that we've got 10 eagles nests. They're not all active, but there were 10 at one time in this area. There's other wildlife in there. So again, for the public who might hear this meeting, tell me again what you're going to do to try to mitigate that and
help my heart a little. >> So as part of the study, we do take a a desktop assessment of eagle's nest. They most of them are located. There's a system online that you can pull their information. We took those, we put them into the align, you know, the study area
that we're looking at and there is a potential nest that's close to the alignment. Um, now that this is moving into design, we can go put boots on the ground, verify if it's active or not, and then we coordinate directly with FWC to see what permits they need versus
what we're trying to do. They're the experts in this. We we go to them and say, "Look, here's our plan. What do we need to do?" And they will give us options of A, B, C, or D. >> Okay. Do you have a specific contact at FWC yet, or will that come later? >> We have one. I don't have it off hand,
but we did have FWC representative as part of our environmental advisory group. So, we've already started that coordination with them. Okay. As part of this this project. >> All right. I think that's it. Thank you. >> Let me follow up on your line of questioning. Um, and it's something we discussed um when we met individually.
Um what because our staff was very concerned about the the wetland's impact as you come up to Lake Mary Boulevard where it's going to be at at grade or um rather than elevated. What are the opportunities for having more of the road elevated to prevent the wetland
impacts? those. Now that we are moving into actual hard engineering and design, we can start to have more in-depth conversations with the county, with the city to see what options there are um to to maybe reduce a bridge in some area that's not in a wetland and maybe add
that on into areas that are a wetland. When we're in a planning study, um we we it's it's a very high level study, so we had to make some assumptions. We've got a good amount of bridge in there now. Uh but again, now that we're moving into that next phase, it's something that we can sit down with uh the public works
director at the Seminal County and even you know your staff to see what opportunities there are to help mitigate that. >> And and for you either either you or Michelle, have you ever had a project like this where you're at this phase now
and you do your additional studies when it comes to wildlife convers conservation or flooding, things like that? Have you ever had a project where you've done all of those analyses and realized we really don't have a solution to this? We might have to back off and not do this. Has that ever happened?
>> I don't I don't think it's I mean, let me just say Wakiva Parkway was probably one of the toughest projects we ever did. >> Yep. >> And we were successful at figuring out a way to meet both the environmental challenges and the connectivity
challenges. So that would be the example that I would give to you. >> Have you done studies on Wakiva Parkway since it's been there for a while now to see what the feedback's like? >> From whom? >> The residents. >> Um, well, I can tell you that our
traffic on that facility has is beyond ex what we had initially thought that it would be. >> So there's a lot of I mean people seem to really like the parkway uh find it useful. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Um Mr. Gray, uh my only concern with this is uh is what what is the next uh ask that the county is going to give us. Uh you all have are absorbing the cost of
Sun Rail, >> correct? >> Um you're you're looking at building roads. Um you you started the scout program, >> correct? >> Um if if we help with this road, are you
next going to come back and ask for money for Sunrail or Scout or etc etc etc? >> No. No. Um not to my knowledge. I would I would say that I would I never want to, you know, say never about future future partnerships. Um, one of the
discussions we had early on with all the the city managers and myself when we start started our scout program, our micro transit program >> was actually to look at the the 5-cent gas tax, the additional 5-centent gas tax for all of us to contribute, you
know, to help with uh the the microtransit program. The county uh decided it's like no, let us let uh let us take the leap. let us say take the risk see how this program works. I have talked to the cities um and said that if
you want to enhance the scout program microransit you know of course that will be a partnership if if you ever want to do something like that like you contribute to links now already >> that you won't have to do it uh do anymore but it is not you know I can't there's nothing in my future right now that I say that I will come back to you
and okay well not to go too far off target here but um might not the uh the whole idea of going to scout was savings, right? Isn't that what we were told? >> Well, was also writership wrership. That
was number one. Well, >> and I'll if if you don't mind me talking about this for one second. When I came to the uh county 3 years ago, we were paying over a little over 7 million. Oh, probably about 10 million at that time. But in five years we went from 7 million to 17 million
>> paying for links and the wrership just didn't justify it. So we actually we didn't even think about microtransit. We were even looking at that. It is something that we as we started to explore writership numbers we thought hey here's another alternative that actually we can help more people and
actually at a lesser cost. That was the whole mindset uh behind going into it. We've only been in this for five months now. Um there was a little overlap with links from October to December last year, but January is only where we did the full fledged to
>> 100% microtransit. We still do have links in the southern part of the county in the Altoont area. Um >> but uh that's that's >> as of right now. >> That's something I wanted to comment on. It's interesting that the richest city in the county somehow the county kept
links for them but but didn't for others. Um and and our residents are suffering with this scout program. But I I understand there's more vehicles being added. >> I understand there's discussion maybe maybe we need to to talk about that
another time. But but my fear is is that costs are increasing in everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. If we let go of what you're asking us to let go of here, I don't know if we're going to be able
to offer anything else down the road >> because we all are experiencing the exorbitant increase in cost to just just do the services we're offering. Um, and so that's my fear of letting go of this money
um is is what's down the road. So, I'm going to take you at your word today that that ask it hasn't been discussed. Um, and and I'm I'm comfortable with that, but I I just know that none of
this is getting cheaper. Sunrail is not going to be cheap, >> right? >> Expanding Sunil is not going to be cheap. Uh, expanding our roads are not cheap. None of this is easy anymore. So, >> and you're right, and we're going to have to figure out a different partnership, but yeah, that is not in
our u any of my my um looking forward that I that I've looked at. I have talked to Norton and actually the mayor to talk about scout and um within four months, we had a 100,000 riders >> with Scout countywide >> now. And I said, we can break that down
uh to your city, to stops, to streets. In fact, we're starting to work on that now. The the mayor had requested that from me last week. So, we're starting to work on that. I've also even said we'd be more than happy to come to this council to give you all a presentation um on how scouts working. We knew when
this this was new for us. >> We knew there was going to be some hiccups. There's some challenges, but I will tell you the writership that is on scalp now is 10 times as much as it was when we had a public transportation of of links. And it wasn't because Altoont
area was the richest city. is that they had the most usage riders in in that area. If it meant if we had the writership up here, we they would have kept the routes. It's just >> uh you you mentioned something that uh
neighborhood links >> neighbor link >> um that cost has now gone up on those uh riders. Um and and that is our most vulnerable uh >> Oh, you talking about paratransit. >> Yeah. >> Yes.
In in fact, we're working right now with them to act to actually bring down that that cost. We could possibly even have Scout take over our paratransit. That is very We still pay. >> So Scout the what? Freebie, the company Freebie, the contract was over $5
million. We still pay5 million for paratransit for links to provide that service. So that hasn't changed. And in fact, links just went to their microransit system, their neighbor link, they just went to freebie, the same company that we actually contracted with.
>> But we'd be more than happy to come. I have we >> we've got dashboards, we have data. It's like and and as I have spoken uh to Norton, your city manager about, we can, you know, if there are issues in the cities or something, we can change uh we
can change things up the way the city desires. Well, I my only concern at this point because what's done is done uh is the two-hour wait times that I'm hearing from >> from uh professionals that that rely on
that service. Um so that's what I want to see improved with this expansion of the the fleet. >> And uh I I I agree that and those are happening in peak times, morning and evening. >> It's starting to starting to come down. We're adding again more vehicles. We've
also also put a time estimator on the app. So you could if you need to go to somewhere, you can put an, you know, to see if Scout is your your ride of choice and it can give you an estimation of when that vehicle would be available. >> And if I may, Commissioner Austin, that
wasn't necessarily a big segue. And if I may read something, I'll tell you why. Um, transit advocates have long questioned the wisdom of adding more lanes to crowded interstates. They cite the concept of induced demand. A 2019
study suggested wider highways encourage more people to travel on the interstate as opposed to local roads, resulting in similar or greater levels of congestion over time. Instead, advocates have pushed for investment in public transit that could move cars off the road.
Again, it's probably too late for that, but we're talking about Scout. I could almost hypothetically see scouts saying, "Let's resolve this without cutting through with a big expressway." >> And this 5-cent local gas tax just say there is restrictions to it. You can't
use it for operations. I've had to I've had to get educated on it. It can only go for capital and transit facilities. We have uh deter. But I think that's important for our media partners that are blowing this up >> to make sure that uh they're putting
that message out there that this isn't actual >> tax dollars that are in anybody's pockets currently. >> Right. >> Uh and it and it's more of a user fee. >> Correct. >> Um and so uh I I think those are important discussions much like the sports facility
>> is being paid with tourism tax dollars. >> Correct. I was a part of the initial startup of that discussion when I was chair of the TDC. And so I think a lot of this is lost upon um our residents and our taxpayers >> on where these dollars are coming from,
how they can be used, and what they can be used for. >> Right. >> Right. Good point. >> Anything commission? Okay, then we'll come back down to this end. Um, in in terms of the funding, um, you're asking
for the full amount the city gets for up to 10 years. >> Up to 10 years, correct? >> Of the of the new money. >> Of the new money. Yes. Of the new money. now is um I'm guessing I already know the answer to this, but in your projections
of how much this county will need to recoup, is the increase in revenue already calculated in or is it based on firstear revenue? >> It's it's based on the distribution
formula that the state has given us. The department of revenue just they have a distribution formula. So, and it's based that is based on your last 5 years of transportation expenditures. You're the biggest city in in uh Simino County. You have a lot of gas stations. You they
pump a lot of gas. So, and that's it's determined that way. There's a a form for formula that that does that. So, your contribution is a little over a million dollars a year. Could be up to 10 years, could be close to 11. However, like I had mentioned to you both uh
earlier is that we may not need all of it. Uh we are really uh I have Tanya, our public works director. I have Tony very big advocates known throughout the region in transportation is and we are going to be very aggressive going after
grants. Um and our board has made the commitment to the four cities that if dollar for dollar we get these grants in we will proportionately reduce your your contribution in there. So our goal is not to to take you know from the cities.
However, if the county commission didn't allow this to happen last year, we wouldn't have this new revenue source either to help the region and that's where we that's where the partnerships really come into play. >> Okay. But is there does it come down to there's a certain
dollar amount you need from the city of Sanford? We we just did a B we okay what are the four we looked at the cities that really in the region that's really going to contribute to this and that's what we came to the to the to the four four of you all
>> and actually if we were looking we were brainstorming about additional revenue sources actually I asked Stephen Norton I said what about your your penny your you know that we got renewed is there you know is there you know so gas tax wasn't even it was just one of the many options that that that we looked at and
so we We just looked at what that distribution was. That uh four cities do does not make up the whole 25 million. >> We're going to be looking at >> the traffic will get down there eventually, >> right? >> We're looking at mobility fees. We're looking at again grant opportunities. Um
Michelle uh and Will Glenn and all of us have discussed over at CFX about there might be properties that we can swap for mitigation that could in lie of funding too. So those all those options are on the table. My job to me as the county manager is wanted to put together a plan
to ensure that it is that it's funded that or we're not, you know, reacting at the last minute to figure out how we're going to, you know, to to make up that that gap. So there is, you know, I'm pretty much an optimistic person. I know that's strange in a county manager, city
manager job, but I think that, you know, with all of us working together, we can find solutions. And I'll tell you, this team at CFX is beyond I mean, they they're great. We brainstorm all the time on on how to make uh how to make this project work. We know it's going to be be needed. We know East Lake, Mary
Boulevard, West Lake is going to be over capacity at some point. Um and what do we do then? Do we keep widening, you know, the the roadway? So, this is an area that keeps our local roads to the locals as much as we possibly can, and it gets folks moving around uh the the
region as efficiently as we possibly. >> Okay. And >> and we're the first city you're coming to, then you're going to go to the other three, right? >> Yes. Yes. I have >> You're most important. You're most important. >> And you're in my backyard. I live down
the road. It's perfect. >> Can I ask uh one more question of Michelle? Sure. >> It's Darren's fault I thought of this. Um I I'm curious uh and I don't know how
to ask this to to make it uh good for anybody that may listen to this at some point. The money CFX is putting into this road, >> is that based upon CFX projections to recuperate
down the road from their fees they charge to the users? Does that make sense? >> Um, so kind of it does. So what we do is we say this is how much this road is going to cost us to build. how much um revenue
>> revenue is going to come in to help support that over a 30 to 40year period of time, >> right? >> Because we have to pay for the road to be built, right? So the road is $200 million >> and >> uh our guideline is uh for our board is
is that the revenues that we collect must be at least 50% uh within that 30 to 50. So yes, it does. Uh that is what it's for. Okay. Um now I think >> so. Yes, just keep it simple.
>> I already asked if to revenue was way higher than expected. Do we get a >> we get a kickback? We get better maintenance. >> Oh yeah, there you go. Prettier trees. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. >> All right. And then Mr. my part. Um, has
our staff um looked at um any plans for this month? >> We could always >> Yeah. >> Do we have any specific projects that we would be giving up? >> No.
>> Or had we not projected for project um budgeted this end yet? >> Because as Darren indicated, the county just approved this last year and we haven't started to receive it. The city hasn't started to receive it. So the money that we haven't received, we're going to continue to receive what we have been receiving, but we wouldn't be
getting the new taxes until the end of this period with 10 years or less. >> Yeah. So it's my understanding, mayor, um, and you know this, but uh, I just want to voice it's my understanding we have projects
uh, planned throughout the years based on the monies we have been getting. >> Right. Right. Um and said >> my question was no >> had they started planning anything based on new >> have we been spending it before we got it >> right >> um I and I assume if we go forward this
we coming back with an interlocal >> correct >> so I would like you know from our staff what what do they see us giving up or do it's not really giving
up because we don't have it yet, but um what are there projects that they would be planning if if this money was available? >> Um you know, and you don't do a whole lot of roads for that much money a year. >> So, but I would like to have just a
sense of what that is. And I've uh I apologize for not meeting with you before this meeting, >> but most of my questions were going to be asked anyway. >> Yes. >> Again, >> and so I did not want to duplicate our
efforts or time. So >> I I put that out just as an offer just I know like uh >> as we managers, we want to make sure you're totally briefed uh and so I don't hit you cold at a meeting. I also I also like to live the sunshine
uh and these discussions to be in the sunshine. So, >> absolutely. >> Just wanted that out there. >> Agree. >> And Mr. Johnson, I'll be more in favor of this if those
improvements at Melanville and Celery get done. >> You mean the county? No, that's our project. >> Oh, is it? Oh, >> I've been try work trying for this for 15 years. >> I just need like two lanes.
>> Well, we could talk about Valain Road, too, but that come later. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, Mr. Mayor, members of Commissioner, it's all right. We can work with the city attorney and prepare the interlo. >> You want your own expressway >> and bring it to you at a future
commission meeting? >> Yes, sir. You know, I think if this is one of those things where if we don't do this, the city and county are the people living here in 20 years are really going to regret that we didn't have the
foresight to do it. >> Yeah. >> Imagine if 417 at >> Yeah. traffic. >> Correct. >> Right. >> All right. >> No, it's it's a necessary evil, >> right? uh to some
>> I wouldn't call it necessary. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Darren and Michelle. >> Thank you. >> And will >> do we know when that will be coming back to >> we're looking at two meetings. >> The water has bones >> after he's talked to all the other
cities and has a sense of what they're doing. >> Yeah. as I as I've told Norton as soon as I will give you a playbyplay update as each one I go through I that is my commitment to you all. If we're not all in together, we're not all in. That's what I that's >> that's my philosophy.
>> Okay. >> All for one, one for all. >> That's right. >> Thank you. All right. Moving on. The next item on the agenda is city workflow. And with that we have Mr. Elizabeth Jones. Hello, mayor and members of the
commission. Um as you all know um when you met uh a few weeks ago uh for your Saturday work session when you were setting your goals um one of the things identified in that meeting was outlining and identifying workflows um to review
not only to have a visualization of the process it takes um to get from start A to the very end of it um but also to allow um us to find areas of improvement within in those workflows. Um everything has a workflow. Um even answering an
email technically has a workflow. Um so to go through every workflow in the city is a very large project. Um so that's why I started with um I first identifying all the workflows um that primarily have a very public um facing
uh way of dealing with it where a lot of them are interacting on our via our website um or other channels that we encourage either by phone or or ways for our public and community um to either sign up for services, request assistance and so on. So I really wanted those to
be the focal points um when looking at our workflow processes at the beginning. It doesn't mean that there are some internal processes that have either already been mapped and are being worked on um or there's some that are already in the pipeline of we know that's next for us. But when it came to your goals
as a commission, I wanted to focus on and hone in on the things that I think really speak to your constituents. but you know what you're looking for when it comes uh to your workflows. It's the goal that you all had set for yourself and for us um as city employees. So
that's why that list was provided, but if there's anything you feel that's missing, um I did already receive Commissioners Thomas' notes um because I figured if we start with a small group, um we can then meet, bring it to you all, see if that's what you're looking for, and then go from there as we move
through the next uh workflow processes. That way we don't go like 30 deep and it's not quite what you're looking for. >> Well, I think um and commission can um make sure I'm had the right understanding. Um we were talking about
things that the public do >> and a here is the step-by-step process to get it done. And then some of these would be something where you want a hand out to give them. Some of them may just be simply put on the website. So did I
hear Commissioner Thomas has already suggested the >> she identified which processes um because I had asked for just you know selecting of five that you wanted to prioritize first. >> Uh so she had already selected her five that >> it was good to see this complete list
maybe not complete list but the list you provided. Yes. >> Gives everybody a sense of how many processes there are that need to be followed. >> Yeah. The list isn't all of them. Yeah. Uh because I tried to really focus on the the primary like I said the ones that you see used the most and um have
the largest I think effect. >> Yeah. >> So >> So my thought process in looking at the list was try to spread it out in departments. >> Yeah. I was trying to cover departments. I did lean a little toward building and planning of course because that's where
we have the biggest challenges. >> Okay. So I had either apply for a building permit or schedule a building inspection. >> Yeah, we can pick one or the other >> or actually I guess the permit applications is really being looked at
with the study they're doing now any anyway, right? >> Yeah. And that's where some of them same with the um uh I apologize the golf cart registration. that's something that's already being reviewed and looked at because we do know that that's a matter that we want to bring attention to and resolve. Um, so with that being said,
some of these on here, already in a a phase of being reviewed and considered and and had to move forward, but I didn't want to not have it on the list and look like it's not something that needs to be addressed or made, you know, public in that way that you were speaking earlier today.
You know, that's a good point, but I know so many people are anxious to see progress on the whole permitting process. >> Correct. And some visuals. >> Yeah. And that's where I wanted to make sure that it's on that list there so that way it doesn't seem like >> it's not a priority or it's been forgotten about. So I wanted to make
sure we know it's a priority. >> Yeah. So I wanted to make sure that it was still front and present. >> Okay. >> So, >> and I was thinking about special events for recreation. >> I had either special events or running facilities. >> Okay. Yeah, those two were the ones I was thinking of.
>> Signing up for utility service. I had applying for a job. I had vendor sign up. Actually, I had six, not five. And then I had one out of the building. I had originally picked golf carton, but it took that off because I know that one's in process.
>> So, how does that fit with the rest of y'all? >> Yeah, I like adding the job because that covers HR. Um, and the one from utilities signing up. >> I had signing up for utility services.
>> Yeah, that would probably be good because that's for a brand new person who's going to need more help. Anyway, what do you think, Commissioner Austin? >> Uh, I like most of those suggestions other than the job part. I've never heard of a problem with our hiring process. So,
>> yeah, I haven't either. I don't want us to >> I always get the Ili thing back. >> Well, that's typical. >> No one ever does anywhere. >> Say that about everywhere. Yeah. >> Um, nobody sends you a thank you card for applying.
>> Hey, I used to when I was in that role. >> Um, I don't know. Uh, the only the only part about this that concerns me is just adding on additional work to staff. Um there there are some metrics that we we
probably want to have and we need to see, but let's not >> Well, but the idea >> let's not get let's not get too far into the weeds with this, >> right? And so that's why I like the idea of doing a few >> and working our way through it, not try to get them all done at one time, >> right? >> But you know, we've talked for years
about, you know, I can remember Commissioner Williams sitting up here, there should be a checklist and give the person a checklist and they can go through and check things off as they do them. And even when we list things, it's still difficult. >> Well, for years and years and years, I was asking for a handout for HPB. I was
asking for a handout on, you know, how how to get your permit done. So, >> so we do a few where the headaches are the biggest. >> Yeah. >> Put it out there, give it time to settle in, and then start to compare and keep
this list handy of should we continue, >> right? >> Because Patrick's right. We don't want to overload you with work that's not Correct. And to and you know full transparency it's not um not every process will need to be you know improved or refined sometimes
>> overengineered. >> Yeah. Sometimes the way it works is efficient and takes care of it and our resources could be used somewhere else. I fully agree with that. Um so but putting it out and visualizing it does help you identify that yes this is the
best way we can do it. And sometimes it does help you identify, you know, small things that do cause big hiccups down the line. Yeah. Um, so it is something where >> I can't say that every single process that's presented or listed here needs,
you know, a grand overhaul. They might not need any really at all. Um, but it does allow a to show the public, you know, how to perform that process. And then it does also allow us the opportunity to identify if there is something that should be improved.
>> Right. And but the to me what I thought was the bigger part of this was to have that document or web page or whatever for the public. >> It's not it wasn't meant to go through and redo our all our workflows. It was
to spell out what the workflow is to the citizen coming in and trying to use it. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. >> Citizen based processes only and the ones that they struggle with. >> Okay. So, do we want to tell her which ones we want that to be
>> given that? >> Thought you had a list. >> I agreed with it. >> Yeah. I still building permit, building inspections. Um, development plan review. That's probably more internal. So,
>> no, because the public has to do sometimes there's a development plan review that has to go through >> permit applications. I just think the building and planning we have to cover that >> not business. >> You just threw me a curveball with the job application thing. That's all. I'm
sorry. >> No, there there are some >> document says here's the process that the city goes through if you apply for a job. >> Okay. But probably they don't know that it goes through HR and um you know has things done and then only the ones that
meet requirements are then sent to the department and then the department does their own thing and let them know what that process is to know know what to expect. But maybe with the building and planning we start with and I would leave it up to them to just you know what's
the first big step. >> Okay. And then okay then the next thing and I think in our newest um LDRs we sort of put those in the order that they have to be done. Maybe that's the order we need to look at putting documents
together. >> Try to do them all at one time. But >> I know I know um we used to have the uh the the group that you come before when when you are trying to do a project. I can't remember the name of right now. >> Development review team.
>> Development review team. I never understood why we got rid of that. Um and but I think what we're working towards here is kind of the same thing. This is uh what you're going to need. This is what has to be done. this is where you're
going to be. Um, so it uh maybe this is a a a good followup to eliminating the the development review team. Um because I still have struggled the last couple years since we got rid of that with some
of these projects where there have been problems. I wonder if >> Well, I think they still do sort of the meeting. They just don't call it a development review board because there was a um it was a uh sunshine law issue.
So once you had a committee, >> you couldn't talk to each other. >> Well, so all right. So is let planning and building sort of pick the order in which they think theirs should be done. >> Yeah. >> But go ahead and start on one with with
them. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Okay. Like right now, building permitting, you go to the building permitting page and there's a lot of verbiage in there. And then it says if you want submittal requirements, click on this link. Well, the link doesn't even work. So, I mean, you're stuck right there without even being able to
go any further. >> And then you go into citizen serve, but you really don't know what's going to happen in Citizen Serve until you get there. So that's where I think before you log in, create the account, do all of that, we should have just kind of a pictorial workflow, here are the steps
you're going to go through. >> Just keep repeating myself. >> All right. Is the next one the signing up for utility service? >> Yeah, I like that. >> Okay. And then running facilities or special events? >> Special events. Which one gets used
more? Probably special events. >> Okay. >> And then vendor sign up or apply for a job. >> Vendor sign up. >> Vendor sign up. That would cover finance. >> Okay. She wants one more.
>> Well, you said golf cart registration. We're already working on that. Um I if if you want to do the rental facilities uh that that's not >> double up on recreation. >> What about the records requests for the city?
>> What you say? So I would double up on recreation. >> Oh, that gives them two. >> Yeah, that give them two. >> Well, we don't want to overwork Jerry. He's >> he's sensitive. >> The records request process is probably pretty simple. Oh, >> or maybe we put golf cart registration
in there because they are working on it anyway and >> it is getting a lot of attention. >> It's a hot button. >> Okay, let's do that. Okay. >> One, two, three, four. >> Good. >> Perfect. Thank you all. I appreciate >> Thank you. >> We appreciate you as always,
>> Dr. Elizabeth. >> Okay. And while we're on the sort of that subject, I sent out um the notes with the action items from our March 28th meeting. >> Um I don't know if anybody's had time to
review them. Um >> yes, >> I would say comments need to go to the clerk or the city manager or we need to talk about it at the next work next session. >> Okay, >> great. >> Mr. May, I would respectfully suggest that it be an item on the next work
session. >> Let's do that. >> The item that we're not doing or did we already take it off? No, this is the item regarding the March 28th work session. >> Okay. >> Okay, good. Yeah, I just have maybe a couple minor items >> and then we've got to figure out how we
make sure it gets done, >> right? >> The important part. >> All right, >> let's put it into a spreadsheet. >> Okay. Senate Bill 1134. >> Yeah. And I think upon further review, let's if it's okay, we'll table that to
a later meeting until we know a little bit more about where we actually are with that legislation. >> Okay. >> Save a little time for our other topics. >> Thank you. >> And maybe like some other things they do up there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Magic. >> Maybe the court swiftly >> or somebody will. >> Okay. um than Sanford Police Department. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, we're presenting department reports and presentations. You've had
some from other departments and this time it is from the police department. On Friday, the police department announced a number of promotions and I'd like the chief to share with us some of the new captains and lieutenants, at least who they are. >> Good evening, mayor, commissioner, city
manager, Miss Green. Uh the city manager kind of alluded to that uh last Friday we had an opportunity to promote uh three new people or three people on on the department. Um Captain U Francis who is sitting in the back was promoted to
captain uh Sergeant Shmart was promoted to the rank of lieutenant and um our PIO I think all of you have seen a lot of the work that Michael Hernandez has done. He was promoted to the rank of sergeant. We also had an opportunity to
swear in three brand new officers. All three of those officers were leaders in their class, including the uh the team leader or the class leader, Officer Canardi, who was uh the team leader uh one of the most improved when it came to
fitness. He also won the highest award for at the semino county uh seminal semino uh state academy which was the Robbie German award which was awarded to him. So three outstanding new officers
who are going through the FTO program uh essentially effective today. So as the uh uh city manager alluded to uh it's our opportunity to get up and do a presentation. I believe that our annual report, which is about 40 45
pages long, was submitted to all of you for an opportunity to review. And I'm just going to do a quick overview of that information. So the the beginning of it looks is in this situation, what we have is there's three sections that fall under a safe
community. The primary one looks at reducing crime. The next one will be at traffic safety and utilizing technology. So our goal was to to and number one was to reduce crime by 1% and we reduce crime time crime was down by 10% within our community. Looking at our SRO's
making sure that they conduct uh sweeps for drugs and guns in our schools. uh crime scene or crime investigative section uh was to uh do five pro proactive events throughout the year to reduce uh part one crimes. Our community
relation unit uh utilize the facilities to use our trailer to make sure we got out and uh was in the community as much as we possibly could. uh the volunteer coordinator was uh you know uh put in a position to uh do two of our citizens on
patrol classes, but due to uh some people not really wanting to go out and drive, plus we had some uh issues with our cars, uh we're going to reimplement that for going into 2026.
The second one dealt with traffic safety. One of our goals was to make sure that we did at least one DUI operations that was met. The target was to do five traffic operations dealing with pedestrians, bicycles, motorists. Uh, one of the good things about this,
we received a grant. So, the overtime that we used to do these this project was paid through grants and not in our overtime system. Uh our goal was to do to host at least one car seat belt uh child seat installation event, but due
to the classes being cancelled, our office officers did not have the opportunity to go through that training and again that goal is being pushed to 2026. looking at the use of technology in the organization as we see that it's
important to continue to advance what we do to enhance what we're doing is to utilize the license plate readers installed and implement the flock camera systems. Uh that goal was partially met. We uh got the flock cameras, but we also had some issues with regards getting
those cameras all installed. So that will be on our 2026. That'll be a reflection of that. We purchased a solar AI trailer which allows us to put that trailer into remote locations or into like parking lots or at special events
where we have an opportunity to utilize that camera system. That camera system again, it came in. We were waiting for some different parts and some technology and some training. So now that we have it, it should be up and operational now. So that will be in our 26 goals as well.
Like >> what is that? So, if you've gone to like Walmart and you see those cameras that are flashing the bright blue light saying that you're being recorded, that's what we purchased. Um, the drone program looking at at
least one more drone pilot. We have now four pilots. We were able to purchase the virtual reality training uh simulator for our officers to uh utilize for virtual training at our facility. And one of the things that was important
for our our investigative unit was to look at some of the old uh cold case homicide cases that we've had and based on new technology, we've been able to actually close one that had been on our books for quite some time.
The second goal overall looks at fostering partnerships. The watch commanders organized and do a number of walk-in talks throughout the city. That was uh matched and exceeded. Uh crime scene to engage at least three community outreach presentations that was
exceeded. Uh deployed the community activity traded at least one at least 10 times during the course of the year. That was met and exceeded. Maintain community outreach. And I'm going to show you all of those numbers here in a moment where you get an idea of what the actual numbers look like. Uh looked at
our social media. uh increasing our platform by 5%. Uh we matched that but what we realized is that some there were some issues with dealing with X and Twitter. >> Happy to see what you did there. >> So we are moving to LinkedIn for a more analytical and professional look. Our
PIO unit uh was put into place uh that they would create at least one uh public public uh announcements uh during the course for each of the quarters that was met. Uh we did put on three volunteer programs. Again this evening we have an
opportunity to recognize a number of those volunteers. Community relations do at least one community crime prevention event throughout the city in each of the districts. We had an opportunity to work with again each of the commissioners in those different areas throughout the city. Uh community relations unit to do
at least one crime prevention based on targeting our seniors and we have done a number of those throughout the course of the year. Our th third third goal deals with dealing with our our people internally and development and wellness. Our training unit uh training and
recruiting conduct the wellness and coaching training for our members. Our neighborhood response unit and crime crime criminal in I get that always messed up. CIS uh will conduct the lease investigations looking into uh the homicides. Uh reimplement our fitness
program for those who are looking to be promoted within the organization. our peer support uh program which allows our office to do peer-to-peer and making sure that we have at least one employee event. We usually do two or three during the course of the year. And uh the wellness committee put together and
organized a number of participations where we do a great deal of uh fitness within the organization and different programs. We've done the Melissa run. We've done the uh Special Olympics run here uh just last uh actually about two weeks ago. So
one of the things we look at where the part one crimes are uh if you look at lararsenes lararsenies kind of cover a lot of things within New York within our community. We look at pigpockets purse snatchings. The one that is uh that just continues to plague us is the uh the
shoplifting. Uh what we have done is work with the county and some of our other organizations in in an attempt to try to reduce the number of shoplifting events. Uh our our biggest concern with shopping lifting has been our big box
stores. Um we're there every day, multiple times a day. And then we've come to realize over the past couple of months that there are some new um protection people who are in place who are really pushing out making sure that they the arrests are done. Uh motor
vehicle uh thefts are about 6% of ours, 1% with robberies. Uh one thing we really can't prevent is the aggravated assaults. A lot of that kind of falls within a domestic area in in those areas. Uh burglaries. burglaries when you'll actually see the numbers are
actually down. Uh and the other ones dealing with uh you know fondling and rape and we had four homicides last year. All four of those homicides have been cleared by arrest. >> Eve, what's the difference between burglary and robbery?
>> Burglary and robbery. Burglary is if I kind of broke into your house. Robbery is if I to give me your money and essentially took your money from you. What we did was we looked at trends over the past 10 years and actually it goes back a little further back to 2013, but
we looked at the past 10 years of trends of crime noticing that uh in 2016 our part one crimes were over 3,300 and going into uh 2025 we're down to 1,700. One of the things I will tell you to take a look at is if you look at every
three years there's kind of like a little bit of a dip. We kind of anticipate for 2026 that that trend will continue that we'll have a number of years where it will go down and then it'll tick back up and then it'll go back down again. So this is just a
depiction so that you get an idea of where we are where we have been over the past 10 years when people talk about issues and concerns in the city of Sanford. is clear with our data showing that we have done a good job with maintaining the crime within our community >> while population has been increased
>> that too. >> The next thing looks at the number of calls for service uh generally if we look at uh from 2021 to 2025 those numbers again kind of fluctuate. Last year we did 126,000 calls for service.
Um, and considering the the l the size of our community, the number of officers that we have, uh, I think we've done a really good job considering that we did do a 10% decrease in crime based on the prior year's calls for service and events.
>> So depending on the year, sometimes it can be up to a third that are cancelled. >> Yes. >> Wow. >> Depending on what's going on, the circumstances are just a little bit. It really depends on what's happening. I I have to say that, you know, one of the big things for us has been uh working
with our community and getting in the community and being actively engaged with the community. So, it kind of helps us see how things are taking place. Uh again, you know, one of the big things that people ask about is speeding and citations. Uh we actually had a decrease in the number of citations that we wrote
last year even though we wrote 13,000 of those. So, uh, we saw a decrease in that and in many ways that's kind of good and kind of bad, but it's good in the fact that we've had an opportunity to see that there has been some decrease in traffic citations.
One of the things I was just talking to you about is our community outreach. As you can see, when we talk do our walk-in talks, 175% increase uh business contact. for getting out and working and talking to our businesses about making sure that you are the first uh uh line
of defense and making sure that your business is safe. Uh making sure that they have conversations with th with those individuals, getting our officers out of their vehicles, spending time in the community as well. And what we've seen over uh 2024 is a 16% increase in
our community outreach. >> Is the one negative number there because some of those have been moved into actual categories versus other. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, >> that's a good thing. >> Again, just a quick snapshot of some of the things that we do on a daily, I'm
sorry, on a weekly basis. Whether it's me having dinner with people in different locations to us doing a number of our coffees, coffee with a cop, our activity trailer is out and about all over the city as much as we can possibly get out there. a number of community
community events and then also making sure that we have an opportunity to take care of ourselves and educate the community on the things that are out there. One of the things that has been important for us is working with Cindy to make sure that we have the funds
available by looking at different grants that are out there. uh we got the uh the Barnes grant which was $117,000 but that 117 is divided between each of the cities. So we either get an equal quarter of that or percentage of that
and we utilize those for different things inside of the department. As I spoke to before we had a subrant that helped pay for the overtime which again helps the city not have to take on those things but allow us to go into the community and work. One of the things that we ran into is because of the
continuous shutdown in the federal government. We have a number of grants that are in the process that we are still waiting for them to be completed. So, as we get grants, we will continue to apply for them and we'll have to wait for the federal government to do what
the federal government does. Some of the other highlights, uh 6,000 hours of training was taken was was uh put into place. 265 training classes attended. One of those or a number of those dealt with internal deescalation, making sure that our officers are
prepared to deal with issues and circumstances um and looking at the leadership method uh and also doing deescalation through tactical training. And one of the big things was active asalent because we've seen across our country the number of events that have taken place where we've
had active shooters who were engaged in illegal activity. our goals for uh 2026 many of them are quite similar to what we did for 2025. The one goal that I will tell you that again um the second one that looks at oh
sorry the first one looking at the statistical data with regards to the reduction in crime. One of the things that we have started to look into is the neighbors fiber which is a national incident crime reporting system.
Okay, you got it. A lot a lot of acronyms. So, NYRES is national fibers is for Florida. And what that does is it's going to skew the numbers with regards to how we were normally reporting. Generally, we would do it under the UCI, which is the uniform
reporting uh information. Uh Naver is going to be a little different. Naver is going to require us to put more emphasis on different things and how the reporting system is going to look. So our numbers for you know in the past where we've seen a number of decrease it
may show that there's going to be an increase based on how the reporting system it's not just us the national is being done for every agency across the nation and fibers which is uh Florida again that's going to affect all of the
agencies here in Florida. Again, looking at uh a number of our goals, we're kind of repeating some of those because some of the ones that we did not meet, we want to make sure that we have an opportunity to address those. Again, looking at DUIs, making sure that we go
out and continue to make sure that our our roadways, our bicyclists, uh people who are walking in the crosswalks are safe. uh making sure that we get hopefully this year have the ability to host a car seat um uh event here in the
city instead of waiting for it to come up. Our flock cameras are up and running. We're going to apply again for uh making purchases on the US grant. uh have the tower out and essentially just recouping a lot of the things that we had previously done this year and making
sure that we have the opportunity to continue to expand uh what we do in the community, keeping those lines of communications open. looking at how we continue to, you know, foster those better relationships with those in our community on a daily basis and working with each of you and your districts so
that we have an opportunity to resolve any issues and concerns that are out there with in your areas as well. And then you know it's always going to be an opportunity for us to focus on our people because that's making sure that they are are healthy that they are have
the things that are important for them gives us the opportunity to ensure that we have a good solid workforce going forward. I think there was a video link that we wanted to show you. This was one
of our PIO's. Uh >> yeah, the audio wasn't working. >> Possible uh you know things that we put together. Did it click? >> You mean April Fool's? >> April Fools. Yeah. >> We want to make the fire department feel
good about themselves for >> At the Sanford Police Department, >> we're committed to evolving with the needs of our community. >> That's why we're excited to announce a new initiative. Crossraining all storm personnel with our friends at the Sanford Fire Department.
>> Nice button right here. Go ahead and sit down. You're ready. You're going to open it up. Lean forward a little bit. Hand off the bail. Show you some of our tools. One button on. All right. And these are
the spreaders. Same thing. Just a power button. Not bad. Here we go. Lacking so far. handcuffs. Make sure you have them in the right orientation. >> Most important.
>> Okay. >> Laugh at yourself in order to make sure that you're doing what's good. So, >> that's our presentation. if you have any questions. >> Any questions? >> Uh, good presentation, Chief. I like all the numbers. I think >> I know that the department is doing
everything possible to protect what you can protect when it comes to the flock cameras. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Because I think about places like the UK where they have so many cameras and they have very few guns and they don't need they do well there. I mean there, you know, I think we've got a good balance
between protecting data, protecting citizens. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Keep it up. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Wait, do you have a question? >> Yeah. >> Yep. Sorry. >> Was was uh Hernandez's promotion based
on that? >> Well, he's uh again, the majority of the things that we you see on our social media, we do in house. and he has been a huge huge uh part of making sure that our PIO uh program has been very successful. >> He does he does a great job.
>> He does a great job. >> Other than our pictures. >> Yeah, I was going to say >> just waiting for one more to show up. >> He messed up our pictures. That's all. >> We We can always take them again. And he has the ability to, you know, make sure your mustache and beard looks better. So
he >> Now we have the props I need. >> Trying to grow one. >> Put some hair. We could do that, sir. >> Okay. >> Strategy. >> All right. Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, Miss Hunen is going to talk about lit local mitigation and the
community rating system for the National Flood Insurance Program. >> Miss Heinson, >> what he was just testing you. Um, this is our annual update. So, most of you have seen I changed up the
slides, made them different this year, but it's the same general annual update except for a couple at the end which tells you what we actually did this year. So, thank you for the time to allow me to give you this update so we can maintain our CRS rating. I'm going to go as quickly as I can so
not to keep you. Um, all right. So, this is our annual update. If you can get me my clicker All right. So, this is our annual update. We cover local mitigation strategy, progress report, the community rating system, and the national flood insurance program. So, flood plan
management is a community- based effort to prevent or reduce the risk of flooding, creating a more resilient community. It can be managed through various strategies including zoning, building codes, enforcement, education, and other tasks. The National Flood Insurance Program, NFIP, provides insurance to help reduce
the socioeconomic impacts of floods. Regulations and standards are established for participation. And while FEMA has minimum flood plan management standards for communities participating in NFIP, adopting higher standards leads to safer, stronger, and more resilient communities. So, the local mitigation
strategy, LMS, an LMS plan identifies natural hazards that may affect an area. River flooding, lake flooding, stream flooding, flash flooding plans assess risks and vulnerabilities and seek strategies to limit losses to both life and property. In 2000, the federal government required all communities
nationally to develop a plan for local mitigation. So, the local mitigation strategy, the city entered into the LMS flood plane management plan with Semroll County and seven other county municipalities to comply with the mandate and to reduce
loss. A local mitigation strategy flood plane management plan was adopted on December 14, 2015. City specific goals and strategies can be found in the municipal NXE of the LMS NFIP community rating system. The city
also participates in the community rating system. The CRS program provides reduced insurance rates to communities that exceed the minimum required NFIP standards in actions that'll reduce and avoid flood damage to insured properties to ensure a bowl properties strengthen and support the insurance aspects of the
NFIP and foster comprehensive flood plane management. So the community rating system is a voluntary program provides for reduced flood insurance premiums for policy holders with insurable property within flood zones located within CRS communities. The CRS recognizes 19
creditable activities organized under four categories of public information, mapping and regulation, flood damage reduction, and warning and response. So, the city of Sanford joined the CRS on October 1, 2016 with a rating class of seven. This rating provides city
residents with a discount of 15% off NFIP insurance rates. There's 5% reduction for every level below a level 10. To maintain this rating, the city is required to meet certain specific credible activities as described in the previous slide. One of these activities
includes providing the city commission with an annual progress report, implementation on accredited plan, which is why we are here today. >> Glad we can help. >> How much is that worth? >> Just a check mark on the on the list of things. Other credited CRS CRC.
Okay. FCS, not CRC, but other credited activities are conducting outreach and providing flood plane protection materials in the library and other community centers, maintaining, managing, and documenting elevation and other flood related certificates. Maintain repetitive loss property lists,
maintaining historic flood hazard boundary maps, firm maps, and other flood insurance studies. Maintaining and updating links to the city's website to educate on floods and protection. Enforce flood plane management in zoning and building codes. enforce regulations related to storm water erosion, sediment
control, and water quality. Preserving open space in the city's designated flood plane areas, and providing notices to the governing board, local media, and registered contract contractors. Okay, so goal number one, this is specifics of the 2026 update. We
are to engage in riskbased mitigation planning to reduce risks to life and property from flooding. So the LMS participation objective 1.1 participate in local me mitigation strategy meetings. Stanford does participate in quarterly LMS meetings and special
sessions. City representatives include fire, public works, parks and grounds and planning and engineering. We contributed to the 5-year LMS update plan and included flood plane management revisions. We continue submitting priority projects and monitoring funding opportunities.
Outreach and education objective 1.2. We coordinate outreach with the county and other local agencies. So provide ongoing public outreach through utility billing inserts. We maintain placers at city key public facilities including Sanford City Hall, Westside Community Center, Semino
County Public Library, the North Branch, historic Sanford Welcome Center, and the Jeff Triplet Community Center. We expanded outreach or we're looking to expand outreach by adding placard content to the Sanford Connects app. We're maintaining and updating this Bloodplane web page with resources and
links. We use citizen serve to offer flood zone determinations and flood related permit applications and explore additional outreach programs in the coming years to reach a broader audience. Goal number two, enforce proper building and stormwater practices.
So, building codes and training objective 2.1 continue training and review of the building codes. Stanford enforces the latest Florida building codes and higher flood plane standards. All building permits are routed through planning for SI and SD review. That's substantial improvement
and substantial damage. Flood plane manager, the administrator, also our planning engineer and our city engineer is our certified flood plane manager provides assessment for new homes and maintains tracking tools. The annual mailings to the HVAC and gas propane vendors reinforce code code
requirements. We just sent those out. It was several hundred letters. And then ordinance 4613 updated the flood plane management ordinance. And then we have also recently updated schedules O and N. So stormwater maintenance objective 2.2
maintain streets, storm drains, culverts and stormwater pond inlets and outfall. The stormwater division provides comprehensive drainage system maintenance. I've been advised that streets are swept every three weeks to reduce pollutants entering Lake Monroe and manage no major rainfall events are
used to evaluate our system performance and identify improvement needed areas. So objective 2.2 two capital projects. The major stormwater capital projects that were completed. One, the Georgetown drainage and roadway improvement project
phase one added a new 54inch trunk line to Lake Monroe improved drainage and pump branch and Melanville basins and reduce repetitive loss flooding. Melanville Avenue to Washington Avenue drainage project installed upsized storm pipes and extended improvements to the
20th Street improvements to 20th Street. construct a new wet detention pond on Washington Avenue and address roadway and residential flooding, including a repetitive loss property. So, the city recognizes that reducing flooding and other natural hazards is essential to pro protecting the quality
of life for residents, property owners, and businesses. City staff work to collaborate to maintain Sanford's participation in the NFIB and the community rating system while also serving as an active member in the Semol County local mitigation strategy.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And so repetitive loss, does that happen? It happens less now from what you're saying, >> right? Do we continually make improvements to try to assist those properties that we have seen repetitive
losses to? >> Are are there more than two or does that >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. And can we get better in the seven? Um, probably not without additional staffing. I mean, you've seen all the
things that are on that list and right now that's managed with the existing planning staff that we have >> and like I said, it was hundreds of letters that go out to the HVAC people every year. We have to make sure that the the placards are up to date. They're in the local places. We have the um the
certificates for elevation and all of those that have to be maintained with every permit. There's certain other criteria in order to go up another. There's more criteria you have to meet and >> and you need more staffing. >> Okay. Yep. >> Thanks, Ellie. >> That would be it. >> Good job.
>> Okay. Next, >> yes, Mr. Mayor, we have with us Cindy Lindsay, and she will do both the September and the December financial reports. >> Show me the money. >> Good afternoon, mayor and commissioners.
um you have um before you and I did put them on your desk because the actual financial portion is missing from your agenda. Um September of 2025 and December of 2025. I will not go over September unless anybody has any questions on that since it is now
historical. All right. So, um December just to let you know and and you do know from your Saturday meeting that um last year ended with a 2.8 8 million loss and you're off just FYI but I'm already gave you that
information for your Saturday. So um the three the three months ended um December 2025 December 31st 2025 for um the first quarter of fiscal year 2026 is um your financial report um for 2026 your first
one and on page three is the general fund. There's no real significant or nothing really actually that stands out. And I'll open it up if you have any questions on general fund.
Seeing none. >> All right. >> Oh, there's a question. >> No. >> Move on to um the pensions. Well, let's do um Mayfair first.
Mayfair is on page 14 and currently it does have a $476,000 loss um that's still partially partially from the building um for that wrapped up for this year of the clubhouse.
Um, as far as operational, they had um a loss too of $22,000 for the three months. >> How much? >> 22,000. >> And that's presumably because they couldn't operate because there wasn't a collapse. >> Yeah. >> They they do have a um gain now, but as
of the three months, >> they better. And then the marina is on page 15 and that for the three months ending December 31st has a gain of about $6,000 operationally. Um they do have a loss again overall due to some repairs
um that are happening at the marina as well for capital needs. And then on page 17 are the pension funds. Um you can see from 2024 to um 2025 there has been some improvement quite a
bit. >> Um police um had a loss of 950,000 this at December 2024 and they have a gain of 662,000 as of December 2025 and fire had a loss of 704,000 as of
December 2024 and a gain of about $4,000 December 2025. And that's all market adjustments. And that's the financials for um the first quarter of 2026. Are there any questions? >> Anything stand out to you, Cindy? >> Not currently? No.
>> Okay. >> Now, you did um um have a question about doing a dollar bill and I wanted to go over that with you if you wanted to real quick >> for the property tax. Chris, could you put up one? Yeah, because I know we sent our data to the
Florida League and it's now available through their map. So, people can now click on our city and see all of this. But I >> I just wanted to go over these are the two um graphs that are in our budget for general funds. And this shows all our
revenue and the percentage in each category. And then the bottom one shows all the expenditures by department um in each category. And then I wanted to go over the possibility of doing a dollar. Um if you can go to public
safety, go over to the right. I want to look at the dollar amounts first. Oops. Can you um do you need me to the dollars are hidden in the column? Thank you. Okay.
So in reality, property tax revenue doesn't cover a certain expense in the general fund. It covers all expenditures from the general fund. We don't say, okay, this
property tax revenue is dedicated to police. This property tax revenue is dedicated to fire. >> Right? So we if we wanted to do a dollar a dollar dollar bill and showing where it goes we we had two two ways of showing it two completely different
ways. Um stay with the numbers if you would Chris. So what I did is I took the expenses by each division. I deducted the direct revenue that they bring in and then I allocated all the rest of the revenue um by percentages to the um
expenditures and the taxes. And this shows you how the property tax, which is the the right column, is allocated to each division. So if you go over to the left, you can see what that looks like on a dollar. >> So police, for example, 41% goes to
police >> of the property. No. Um, yeah, I believe. Go over to the left to see the actual dollar, Chris. Oh, no. Go to all departments. I'm sorry. To see the dollar.
If you go at the bottom, can you increase the um wording? There we go. So, this is how it would look if you did it by um division. You do 22 22
5 cent goes to um support fire. Um 41 cents of each tax tax dollar support law enforcement. 3.9 of each tax dollar supports transportation and 32.7%
supports all other city services. You could do it that way. >> Okay. >> You could also go to the public safety. You go to public safety and you say this is what your property tax dollar can do. And if you just want to say it it all goes to police and fire, this is what it
would look like. Now, it doesn't cover all of police and fire expenditures. They still have to use other revenue besides property tax. But if you're just talking about property tax, this is what your dollar would look like.
You can scroll up a little bit. Yeah. So, I wanted to get your opinions on if you still wanted to do the dollar, if you just wanted to do the graphs um that are in the budget that show everything. I like the dollar uh example because David Johnson uh uses it and that's what
I asked Nordon, you know, why why can't we get something like that? >> Florida League has all cities trying to do this. >> I think it breaks down I think it breaks it down uh a little bit better >> than than the the tons of numbers to the
right. Um I think uh I think the first example is probably a little bit better. I don't want I don't want to necessarily uh >> all of our property tax >> focus on public safety. >> Yeah.
>> I want I want it I want it to be articulated. Not that I can do it. >> Um how a dollar bill breaks down via the city government. >> Yeah. And strictly for property tax, not for all of our funding. We just we need
the public to know >> that if we lose all property tax income. This is what's going to happen. This is what this $1 of your property taxes covers. >> The other image back
>> the public safety all department. >> That's the one you're saying, right? Commission. >> Yes. >> I think I like that better because it shows And this is just property taxes, >> correct? >> Because that's all we're talking about
is the potential loss of this part of our revenue. >> Did you look at the one I I made? >> Yeah, the one you did was sort of like the graph with everything on it. >> Yeah. I got really busy. >> Yeah. And it's more than just property tax. So, you really I don't think >> that's my problem with the pie chart.
Uh, I I know I know uh number crunchers love that, but I'm not sure it paints the picture quite like the dollar bill might. >> Yeah, I tried the same thing with the dollar bill being all of our propert all
of our taxes, not just property taxes. >> Okay. >> Um, it got a little too busy though. Um but but then I broke it down into I had every department and so there were tiny littlebody all the other >> 32.6 except for transportation and police and
fire because that's sort of what the county did was transportation, police and fire. >> Um I could break down the 32.6 more if you would like. >> Um >> I think or just leave it like that. >> I would I I would maybe add parks. Parks is the well
>> debt service is the biggest but after that is parks and wreck >> I think >> maybe um but utilities that doesn't come out of town >> that's true that's true >> yeah the these are the um departments on the right >> it's development services finance fire
HR police streets public works and recreation and then non-EP departmentals like for our um debts >> what's the percentages on Yeah. What's the percentage for um parks and rent? >> Yeah. Almost 12%.
>> I think that might be worth >> Oh, yeah. >> See, and actually >> 21% is the rest of the park. >> Yeah, cuz I >> So, just recreation by it out of the group. I had already asked our new Jerry, I think his name's Matt, um,
for numbers on on what we spend on the parks every year in total because I just myself I have a fear of the discussion down the line of how many of our is it 17 parks? I I
>> 28. How many of our 28 parks are we going to have to close, possibly sell to uh to to save funds in the future? Um and so because we cannot we cannot cut
back on on public safety. Uh we cannot cut back on on the the services we provide, but unfortunately we can cut back on our amenities. Mhm. >> Um, and so our parks are are one of our major amenities.
And I I believe the number, and I just got it this afternoon, Matt, was it $46,000? >> Just for landscape maintenance. Um I I don't I don't know as if uh if over the years we've painted a well a
well enough picture of what our dollars are going towards and that's what I'm looking us to do a better job of paint the picture of where the tax dollars are going because we are we are taking a beating currently on the great increase
in tax revenue venue we've had over the last few years. >> Yeah. >> Um but I don't believe people understand how that money is being used and where it's being placed. >> Um >> finding a way to simplify that so they
get the picture. >> Okay. >> Commissioners, let's go with the with the dollar with more um divisions including parks. >> Yeah. Mayor commissioners make it colorful like this one from the league. We're in the process of putting signs at the park saying that the park is
maintained by property tax. >> Okay. I like that. >> My staff actually used to have a plain black and white. I meant to bring that up with me that this is the one that was emailed to y'all that I used for citizens accounting. I used to have a plain black and white one. My staff made it colored and I went, >> "You didn't like the color. We could use
different colors." >> So we can delineate that these are different. >> We'll still color. Actually, you did that by separating those pieces of the dollar. That does work. >> Okay. Thanks, Cindy. That's good work. >> All right. >> Y'all want it colored, too? We can color. >> You want it color?
>> Can you show it either way? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Keep it Keep it the way it is, but separate like you have. It's separated like >> you like the color. >> No, I don't like that. >> You don't like colors? Yeah. >> That's from FLC. >> Don't listen to our >> That's okay though, >> right? But I think breaking down the
>> He's a math professor. He doesn't like >> different colors on my dollar. Oh, let's use that one. >> No, >> make when I said it. This is horrible, but maybe you can fix it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> And you did. >> Well, thank you. So, we're going to make
a big six foot by 10 foot placer of a stick in >> spend a lot of money that size that I have back there. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's good. All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Again, members of the commission, what we indicated is that the staff is in the process of putting up signs at the park saying this park is
maintained by property tax. >> Great idea. Great idea. >> Okay. Any regular meeting items? >> Not that we have >> briefing item >> on the city manager's comment. The commission had discussed painting the commission chambers and there's been
some discussions about that even some selection of of a color and I just wanted to let the commission know we were moving forward with that. I know Commissioner Thomas has been involved with that and even to the point of you wanted to color some of the wall. >> A swatch only goes so far. And I think
if we just took some section that people aren't really looking at that much and put this off-white color on there. And I still have this watch right here. Then um we were talking to Brent about that that maybe we need it in more than one place, Brent, because the lighting
is different between the back wall and up here. >> Right over my head. >> Yeah. Well, and have you painted behind pictures? >> Yeah, >> you could cover until we decide what to do. You cover it back up with a picture and then nobody knows you did that. >> What a great idea. You're so smart.
Okay. So, that's the action >> behind one of the pictures. Uh, the lighting is probably the same on the sides here. >> The pictures change. >> Well, it's not going to stay. >> For a meeting or two, when people come in, it's like, why is there
>> odd color? I think it's going to be too bright and the light is going to shine off my head and Norton's head and YouTube viewers are going to complain. >> We'll put a little placard next to the swatch that we paint and say this is what it's going to look like. So, >> okay. >> And you only want one.
>> You just want to test out one color. >> Yeah. >> Test that color. >> Test out the one color that we chose, which is this. >> Wasn't it cotton? >> You are correct. You slap that on the wall right now. >> See, I do see I do pay attention to your
dribble. I mean your emails. >> Okay. All right. >> Thank you for um >> It's going to be better than what we have portion of the wall in the back painted or on the sides you need.
>> I think I don't think there's a big difference between here and the sides >> and the back wall. It doesn't really matter. >> Yeah. >> What it >> right? Yeah. >> So, you just need it on the side where it's >> I think it's going to be too white.
>> This color. >> What do you think? Glass. Too white. >> I think too white. >> Too white. Go a little >> Now that's That's a professional. >> It's a professional opinion there. >> We don't want that. There we go.
>> So, we want a little darker whitish little warmer. warmer. >> Sorry. >> I agree with you. I mean, that's kind of one of the examples that I was looking at was a little warmer.
>> Okay. So, we'll find a warmer color team. >> Okay. >> Team, Mr. uh, >> you're in charge. >> Public art. >> All right. All right. Um, since we have a little bit of time and since we're doing some
um, premitigation budgeting tonight, I wanted to ask about replacing trees and what is and apparently I'm not sure the response I got back was there's not a specific policy that when we remove a tree, we have a replacement tree. Is that
correct? I'm looking at Robert and Brent >> talking private property or no >> right away >> that has that has come up recently. Um and I mean isn't it's I just thought you know when you
take down a tree you put a tree back up but apparently we don't do that. >> So >> we buy trees and put them somewhere. I do I mean I can't speak for utilities of public works but I do do hear quite often they do not prefer
aggressive large canopy trees in the rightway because of the damage it does >> okay >> I do know >> like those poor trees that we took out on 46 well that's not our road but crossing the >> mayor but I mean
>> can you plant a tree somewhere else maybe don't put it right there but >> we've had some discussions in and the types of tree are the problem and number one and number two what maintenance is it going to require us to
do uh over the years uh you know a lot of cities use those crepe myrtles they are requiring maintenance every year I don't I don't know as if that's the direction we want to go so I think it comes down to type of tree placement
And and where do we have, you know, where do we have space to do it? >> I agree. That's what that all needs to be in there. >> And so the site that I keep hounding about, let's go plant some trees out there.
>> Site what is it? Site 10, 12, I don't know, 17, >> 23, I don't know what >> plant trees there. >> It's going to get used. >> But do we plant more trees in our parks? I mean, do we use up usable space on our parks?
Um, where do we put them? In the middle of the ball field. >> Um, do we still do the tree giveaways, but we started making people go to a class to get one, didn't we? Is that what the difference is? >> We do not do it anymore. It's done
through the county in the uh >> No, we do it um >> you go do a class at Lowe's or something. >> No, we don't do it anymore. It's a it's a store subject with me. Uh >> oh. >> Right, Nikki. >> Robert Bell, operations manager. So, in
in the past, we have been um partnering with Simino County. Uh we do do a class that helps for people to uh be able to win a tree or a butterfly garden. Um this year we are not partnering with them, so we're just doing a draw. Um, so
you come to uh Lowe's this year, um, you'll draw tickets, they'll go into a bucket, we'll pull them, and then those people that get it will be entered to win a tree. >> How many trees? >> 125
and then 25 butterfly gardens and then Lowe's is donating a grill and then lowflow toilet. >> Okay. How is it that Castleberry is still able to give out free trees and we're not? Well, we do give out free trees. It's just
>> not not through. Okay. How is it that Castleberry is able to give away free trees without a lottery system and we're not? >> We have done it in the past. Um what we've found is we've bought, you know, two or 300 trees. Um people show up, uh
they will get trees, they will be picky about trees. Uh and then we sometimes end up with a surplus. Uh and then we spend several weeks of staff time trying to give away the trees. So that's why that's why we had limited
to what what we gave out. >> So thinking outside the box, Mr. Mayor, that's a great time for us to plant some trees to replace what we have taken down. >> Maybe you have a place to plant them. >> Right.
So your job is to figure out >> place to plant them. I know. Uh the last time we actually did it, we had red maples and what was the other one? >> Well, so over the years we we've done different varieties of trees. Um two
years ago we did fruit trees. Last year we did um large specimen trees. >> The last time we actually did a tree giveaway this city >> last year. Not part. No, not that partner stuff that I do not like that I've complained about you for years. The
last time we actually did one was red maple and one other one, right? >> Yeah, probably live oaks. Um, >> but they were they were invasive and they get rather large. I think that's
>> okay. >> But yes, they get very large. That's why that's what I wanted was a live oak. >> Well, can we get the mayor a live oak? >> I got one. I had one in the front yard and one in the backyard. >> Hallelujah. But anyway, >> and then I moved. So,
but the trees are still there. But no, I mean, I think our goal should be when we cut down a tree, it's replaced somewhere in the city, shouldn't it? You all agree with that? >> I do. >> Okay.
>> I do. So, can we work on how that what that looks like? And >> I love them. >> Yeah. >> Different variety. >> We never had those when I was there. >> I love them. >> Yeah. But did you kill it like you
killed that plant at Home Depot? >> Still in my yard. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, Commissioner Wiggins, anything? >> I have nothing. Commissioner Austin, anything? >> I'll stay for the night.
>> Okay. >> Have to go home and feed the dogs. >> Oh gosh. Those poor dogs. >> Okay. Commissioner, just a reminder that the Citizens Academy graduation is tonight. So, there will be a number of people here. >> Okay. >> That's why I did my hair.
>> I noticed that. Looks good. Part: 2
name of Charles and that girl looked nice when he cast his eyes upon her and the trouble soon began. Song blue. Everybody knows one.
Song blue. Every garden grows one. Me and you are subject to the blues now and then. But when you take a blues and make a song,
you sing them out again. You sing them out again. Song blue weeping like a willow. Song blue sleeping on my pillow.
Funny thing that you can sing it with a cry in your voice. And before you know it, get to feeling good. But you simply got no choice. Me and you are subject to the blue man.
When you take the blues and make a song, you sing them out again. Song weaving like a pillow. Song blue sleeping on the pillow.
funny thing. But you can sing it with a cry in your voice and before you know it started feeling good. You simply got no choice. sun blue.
Song of blue, but you can sing your voice. Full Bay's heavy duty repair shop. >> We hear Victoria. >> Okay. We will call to order the meeting of Sanford City Commission for Monday,
April 13, 2026. First order of business is our legislative prayer which will be offered by Minister Kevin Basquez. The glacia vat no followed by the pledge of allegiance. Let us pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the
opportunity to gather here today in service to our community in the beautiful city of Sanford. And Lord, we lift up our city leaders, city commissioners, staff, and all present and grant them wisdom, discernment, and integrity as they make decisions that
impact our neighborhoods, our families, and future generations. And Father, we recognize the diversity of our community, people from different backgrounds, cultures, and experiences. Help us to work together in unity with mutual respect and understanding,
seeking the common good for all. We pray for every family in our city, for peace in our homes, safety in our streets, and opportunity for our children. Strengthen those who serve daily to make this community a better place. And Lord,
guide the conversations in this meeting. Let truth, fairness, compassion lead every discussion. Father, remind us that leadership is service. May every decision here reflect a heart to serve people with love and excellence. We
place this meeting in your hands and trust you to guide every outcome. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. I allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, master. Thank you. Appreciate that. >> Great. We have a number of um presentations and we will start with the citizens academy graduation graduating
class 24. Mayor and commissioners, city manager, city attorney, city clerk, I am standing here before you proud to introduce our class 24 graduates of the citizens academy. This class speaks to the most
of civic engagement. It is um a dedication of these individuals that decide to learn about local government and why we do the things that we do and make it clear and understandable to
sometimes very strategic and integrated processes. And so there were 35 students that joined the citizens academy. This is class 24. we started several years ago. Matter of fact, there are several of you on the
commission that are citizens academy graduates as well as several people in the audience, city employees, and I understand some members of the police volunteers that were citizens academy graduates that became police volunteers for the
city of Sanford. And so I just wanted to go through what 10 weeks in the citizens academy looked like for these individuals. And uh like I said, it was 10 weeks on Wednesday evening from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. It's a free course.
Sign up first come first serve. The only qualification is that you have to be 18 years of old years of age. And I'm going to go through their particular schedule. So the first night we met way back on February 4th here in this room where the
city manager, the city clerk, our assistant city manager talked about the basics, the very basics of government. We went to the Stanford fire department. Do you all remember that? Thank you to all the staff by the way
for making this class so awesome because without our directors and their teams, it wouldn't be what it is. Stanford Police Department was next. That was also a fun night. They saw the K-9 demonstrations. They toured the public safety building, met the police chief
and several of his command staff. We went to the utility department to our new building on 1792. That was the first time that we had gone there and uh they have a new conference room and they learned a lot about what our utilities department provides. Then we went to
public works. That is the public works complex. They saw several demonstrations including this here which is a example of I think it's this No, that's the storm water demonstration of how we actually can visualize what's in those
pipes underground. Development services was in this room and they have the great chicken caper all the time. I'll let them explain that or you have to join class 25 to figure that one out. Community development, neighborhood
engagement was next with human resources and risk management. They met in our utility training room and parks and recreation. We were at the Sanic Civic Civic Center and what they do is like sort of like a speed dating type of scenario where all the departments all
their divisions meet with each table and there's quite a few and it took two hours and we could have done we could have been there more longer. Economic development is always a fabulous night of learning. They took a bus tour to the San Orlando Sanford International
Airport and learned about the history of the airport and as well as um the airport itself. And then finally, we ended with the finance department where the academy members learned how to
balance city budget and that was an interesting task. So that was the 10 weeks and believe you me it goes by so fast that it's it's quite unbelievable but we are at 24 classes
with approximately 600 graduates at this point that I think some have gone on to be um committee members volunteers for the city of Sanford on several of our boards. That being said, the next class is uh
September 2nd and we'll open the applications in June and it'll be available on our website and social media. So that's that. Are there any questions from any of the commissioners who went through the citizens academy? >> Yeah. >> Can we raise your hand on who went
through the citizens academy? >> Mayor, come on. You're next. I want to know what this class decided to cut when they did the finance. >> Yeah, >> you >> uh my job Cindy switched it up actually this this time. They had like
>> play money and >> Skittles actually. >> Skittles. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, so now we come to the wonderful part that we've been all been waiting for is to have the folks come up
and receive their certificate. So, it's been a pleasure to getting to know everybody. We're going to call your name up one by one and then if you would remain up there, we'll take a group photo and um you could stay for the rest of the commission meeting or you can leave. But thank you.
I got an email from >> Victoria. She couldn't be here. >> Okay. >> So, when you hear your name called, please come on up and just wait here. But we are waiting for the the symphony
to start playing their music. and Wana Andrews, Scott Arnette. Gabriel Caldwell Carol and Scott Cowan. We actually have date night on Wednesday nights here, by the way, if you didn't know that. You get a
free meal and learn about local government at the same time. Leah Davis, Leah, Monique It's just a grave. Siara Hardway, a city employee. Also, this is a great program for employees.
Also, Susan Clink, Ashley White. Dan Matthews, Adam Mer. J file Daniel. Beverly Oliver Greenway
Shantel Oul Oh, Peterson, Joanne Rumba. David Rosen. Yeah, that's true. Amber Verer. That's the roy. clean white. I didn't miss anybody, did I? Okay,
you have Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. really would appreciate that coming from the citizens. >> I think I speak on behalf of the entire
class when we give you a huge thank you. This is a free program. We understand that. But more than that, the passion of the employees that spoke to us, they really care about not only their own jobs, but the city. And it's made, I
think, all of us really appreciate the time and effort you all put into it because it was Wednesday night. You could have been doing anything else. And we appreciate you being there. So, thank you. >> Yes. and I will advocate for other city employees. Um, at first me being new to
this um, organization, I was like, "Oh gosh, every Wednesday I'm going to be at work all day and have to go here." But it was a beautiful experience. I got to learn more about my co-workers and just overall government. Um, even as a city employee, sometimes you don't understand
who your neighbor is, who's who um, office is right beside me, what they're doing, and how they're benefiting this organization. So, it was a great experience and I'm advocating for all city employees. Um, so hopefully we'll be able to see some more in the next class.
>> Beverly. >> Hi, I would just like to say I think every citizen in the city of Sanford should come to the class. I am currently trying to recruit my four grandchildren
ranging from ages 19 to 27. And then I have a personal story. You guys are so great that work for the city. Last week and it was raining and he did not have to stop. Uh the guy that sits as uh one of the guards at the front desk, he's there most of the time. Well, I dropped
my glasses in the parking lot and one of the lenses popped out and he stopped. He was heading home and he stopped and he helped me find the lens for my glass. Isn't that something? So, yeah. So, you guys you guys have have uh great people
working for the city of Sanford. Hi, I'm Monique Ael with um I came I did it as part of like business, you know, networking with decision tactical. Um it was not at all I don't know what I expected but it far exceeded all
expectations learning all the different aspects. Uh I felt like a little kid like back in school on field trips like in awe every week learning something new about how things work. I mean if you don't know that you should not put oil down the drain and that you need to
solidify it and I can go on but uh you should everyone should do it. I agree this class. Thank you all who volunteered and of course you know I'm a little biased with Chief Cecil and the police department. >> Thank you Lisa.
And on behalf of the city commission and the entire city, thank you all so much for making this effort and putting the time in. It's um great that you're getting involved and you're understanding the city. And as somebody said, we would love if all of our residents knew everything y'all know about our city. And thank you, Lisa.
>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. All right. I've paid my dues. Time after time, I've done my sentence, but committed no crime
and bad mistakes. I've made a few. I've had my shield and kick in my face, but I come through and we are the champions, my friends.
>> And then we have a couple of proclamations. The first one is for Arbor Day. See the airport is in the house. Whereas in 1872, J. Sterling Morton proposed to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture the establishment of a day dedicated to the planting of trees, thus
creating Arbor Day. And whereas Arbor Day was first celebrated in Nebraska, where more than a million trees were planted, and has since grown into a global movement. And whereas trees are an integral part of our of a healthy ecosystem, helping to reduce the erosion of precious top soil by wind and water,
lower carbon emissions, conserve energy, mitigate climate change, and improve air quality and water quality. Whereas trees provide habitat for wildlife, support biodiversity, and are essential to the regeneration of natural resources, offering renewable products such as wood and paper that can be sustainably
managed. And whereas urban forest and green spaces provide countless benefits, including improving the mental and physical well-being of citizens, reducing urban heat islands, enhancing air quality, and promoting a sense of community. And whereas the city of
Sanford, Florida, through its steadfast commitment to sustainability, has proudly maintained the designation of Tree City USA for over 38 years, demonstrating the city's ongoing dedication to preserving and expanding its green spaces for the benefit of all. And whereas Arbor Day provides an
opportunity to educate citizens on the importance of environmental stewardship, including reducing waste, conserving water, and supporting the restoration and preservation of natural habitats for future generations. Whereas tree planting and green initiatives contribute to a healthier, more
resilient environment, helping to combat the challenges of climate change, loss of biodiversity, and pollution. Now therefore, I Woodruff, by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim Friday, April 24, 2026
as Arbor Day in the city of Sanford, and urge all citizens to actively participate in sustainable practices, support the city's community forestry program, plant trees, reduce their carbon footprint, and work together to protect and nurture our planet for
present and future generations. Uh yeah, just real quickly, um like the mayor said, we're on our um 38th year. The proclamation helps us to work towards our 39th year as Tree City USA, um which is a a big feat for a city. Um we are doing our tree giveaway this
year. uh at Lowe's this year. It'll be on May 16th um from 9 to 11:30. Uh so we're giving out away 125 trees. >> Um 20 um five butterfly gardens. Um and then with the water wise portion of it
in Lowe's, uh we're giving away uh or Lowe's is donating a grill, a lowflow toilet, and then they're doing their uh shower head exchange. So we invite all the public to come out and enjoy the festivities. Excellent. >> Robert, is that pre-registration
for the trees? >> It's uh we're drawing tickets this year. >> Next is Professional Landscape Architecture Day and I believe we do we have some landscape architects with us to receive it?
No. Then Chris, you're coming up. >> Oh no, >> you're the closest we got today. >> Mr. Substitute >> Robert. Robert kind of does it too. >> You deserve the proclamation.
>> He should get two. >> Oh. Hey, we don't have much longer to wait on. >> Whereas landscape architecture is the practice of analyzing, planning, designing, and managing the natural and built environment to transport form vision into functional, healthy, and
resilient spaces. And whereas during World Landscape Architecture Month observed under the theme landscape architecture in action, we recognize the visible impact of the profession on parks, streetscapes, campuses, and public spaces across our communities and
honor the licensed professionals whose work in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics supports the infrastructure and quality of life in the city of Sanford. And whereas the as the nation approaches America 250 commemoration, we acknowledge the historic and ongoing role of landscape
architects in shaping and preserving the American landscape, reflecting democratic values, cultural heritage, and opportunities for future generations. And whereas the licensed practice of landscape architecture serves to protect public health, safety, and welfare, ensuring that outdoor
environments from gardens and recreational spaces to storm water and transportation systems are designed with technical expertise and professional responsibility. And whereas landscape architects play a vital role in addressing environmental challenges, developing sustainable and resilient
design solutions that restore ecosystems, reduce risk, and lessen long-term public cost. And whereas the economy and environmental quality of Sford, Florida, benefit from the contributions of line licensed landscape architects and accredited educational programs which support economic
development, tourism, and resource stewardship. Now therefore, I would wed by the virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of the city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim April 1, 2026 is professional landscape architecture day.
I'm not sure we have anybody for this one either. Um, do we have any uh police volunteers here? >> Yeah. >> All of y'all come on down. >> Come on down, >> Patrick. Nikki
regarding not long. Long answer. >> Okay. I'll say something. >> Whereas citizens who volunteer their time to provide assistance which cannot be measured in terms of dollars, volunteers provide a spirit of assistance that is invaluable. And
whereas more than 100 million volunteers are working in their communities throughout the nation, giving of their time and talent and making a difference. And whereas volunteers are motivated by the satisfaction that they are helping their fellow citizens and by the appreciation they receive from the department and city they serve. And
whereas volunteers are vital in our future are vital to our future as a caring and productive community. And whereas an average of 38 volunteers gave their time to the Sanford Police Department, contributing 1,694.5 hours in 2025, saving the city over
$55,900. Now therefore, I art Woodruff, by virtue of the authority vested in me as the mayor of city of Sanford, Florida, do hereby proclaim the week of April 19th through April 25th as National Volunteer Week, 2026, and encourage all citizens
of Sanford to join in this tribute to recognize those who volunteer their time in commending their efforts. not up there with the volunteers. >> Hey, Mary Ellen, we all want copies of that picture. >> I just want to say thank you to all the volunteers. I feel blessed to work with
you guys every u time we go out to all the different events in the city. We couldn't do it without you. There is uh so much knowledge up here and talent. I just really appreciate all of you. And then on a side note, I don't know where Lisa went, but you know, next year I gota Oh, next year we got to come up
first so I can recruit your class. >> But thank you volunteers. I love you all. You're awesome. Thank you. >> Thank you all so much for a great idea. >> The story you're about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect
the innocent. He's wacky. Okay. With regard to speaking before the city commission to facilitate public input, if you plan to speak on an item, we'd appreciate it if you fill out the yellow citizens input form, which you'll find in the
back and um turn that in. In the back, we'll bring it forward. The public will be given an opportunity to speak on any item before the city commission during a regular meeting. longer. >> Okay. All right. >> Especially with noise.
>> Right. That's what I'm talking about. >> Before the consent agenda, I will ask if anyone wants to speak on any of those items before the commission consider during public hearings. Um I will ask if anyone wishes to speak before a motion is made on any item. during regular items. Um if comments are not called for
and you've not turned in the yellow sheet, um just raise your hand. Um when we get to that item, you'll be recognized. There's a three-minute time limit for each speaker on each item except for a person representing an organization presenting views during a quasi additional hearing. They are allowed five minutes. Citizen
participation is between public hearings and regular items and individuals may address the commission on any topic not on the agenda. There's a five-minute time limit for citizen comments. That brings us to the minutes. Uh March 23, 2026 regular meeting and work
session and March 28, 2026 goal setting session. >> Second motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Questionly. Is there anyone in the audience that does wish to speak on any of the consent agenda items? >> See no one will bring that to
commission. Move to approve. >> Second. >> And that is A through J. All in favor? >> Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Brings us to our first public hearing. Second reading of ordinance 4851. The
screen. An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida, further amending the city of Sanford comprehensive plan for a total of 6.95 acres in size within the city limits consisting of eight future land use amendments to assign a city future land use designation equivalent
to those in unincorporated seminal county at the time of annexation providing for the reszoning of real property located within the city limits. The table of such properties are attached here too as exhibit A. Amending future land use map. Providing for
assignment of the land use designation for the properties. Providing for adoption of maps by reference. Providing for the taking of implementing administrative actions. Providing for the adoption of maps and exhibits by reference. Providing for ratification of prior actions, providing for
severability, providing for conflicts, providing for non-codification, and providing for an effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, on March 5th of 2026, the city's planning and zoning staff voted to recommend that the city commission adopt the ordinance to amend the
comprehensive plan and modify the future land use for eight properties totaling 6.95 acres to assign a city future land use designation equivalent to those in the unincorporate semino county. It is therefore staff's recommendation city commission approve the ordinance number
4851. Okay, this is a public hearing. Anyone for the audience wish to speak to the side staff going to make a Did you have anything? Just if we have questions. >> Okay. And just to um make sure the audience understands these are
properties that have been annexed and we are just assigning the um matching um land use that they come from the county with. So I'll close the public hearing bringing the commission direction for action. >> Move to approve >> second motion and second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? >> Any opposed? Pass. Second reading of ordinance 4852. Miss Green. >> An ordinance of the city of Sanford, Florida reszoning for a total of 6.95 acres in size within the city limits. Providing for findings and intent.
Providing for amendments to the zoning map. Providing for taking of implementing administrative actions. providing for the adoption of maps and exhibits by reference. Providing for ratification of prior actions, providing for severability, providing for conflicts, providing for non-codification, and providing for an
effective date. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission, at their March 5th, 2026 meeting, the city's planning and zoning commission voted to unanimous voted unanimously to recommend that the city commission adopt the ordinance to reszone eight properties totaling 6.95
acres. It is therefore staff's recommendation that city commission approve ordinance number 4852. This is a public hearing. Anyone wish to speak to this item? This is the same as the previous except this is zoning rather than future land
use. See no one. I'll close the public hearing for commission correction. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Second. Motion. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanly. brings us to the appeal denial development order 2605
screen. Mr. Mayor, staff recommends that the city commission uphold the administrative officials denial of development order number 26-5 as proposed residential home occupation configuration is inconsistent with the
adopted city master plan. Okay, this is um quazi judicial um and so when agenda items involve qua value judicial process commissioners must disclose all exparte communications including the name and communicator and
the time place and substance of the communication. Um written communications commissioners investigation site visits and receipt of expert opinions must also be disclosed and made part of the record. Persons who have opinions contrary to those expressed in exparte communication may refute or respond to
the communication at hearing at the hearing when they make the presentation. In quai judicial process parties to this proceedings are generally the city and the applicant. Others who have legal standing to appeal the decision can also request to be recognized as a party. Parties are subject to cross examination
and must give their testimony under oath. Persons do not have to be a party to the proceedings to be recognized and provide comments. Members of the public who wish to make comments are not subject to cross-examination and are not sworn as in as evidentiary witnesses. Comments of the public that provide
facts relevant to applica to the application can be considered in the decision. Qualifications of city staff are part of the agenda materials. All testimony and evidence provided to the city commission must be competent material and substantial under Florida law. guide to judicial proceedings has
been published on the city's website and copies are available available in the rear of the chambers. So those of y'all that will be testifying as parties if you would please stand your names. Okay, raise your right hand and do you
swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give in the matters now at hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, >> thank you. Um, I did meet with uh Mr. Hollis and go over the plans
um with him last week, I believe, >> Tuesday. Last Tuesday, and we just um went through his plans and discussed options. Um, I also received a email. I think all of us received an email from um an adjacent property owner. >> I have nothing to disclose.
>> I got the email from the adjacent property owner and I got an email from Mr. Hollis uh with his uh revised plans. >> Okay. All right. >> Got the same email discussed with >> All right. Miss Henson.
Okay. It's kind of long, but bear with me. All right. So, tonight we're here to discuss the St. John's Parkway mixeduse plan development. The project address is 4550 St. John's Parkway. There have been a couple other addresses through the review process because there's multiple
parcels, but for tonight, 4550 St. John's Parkway is the project address. The applicant is Chuck Hollis with Third Wave Development. The property owner is currently Christopher Kelly. So, this before you is a timeline. The city commission approved a mixeduse plan
development which required commercial on the first floor in 2024. In 2025, development plans were submitted with no true commercial. And due to staff being unable to come to terms with the plans and the applicant unable to address
staff's comments, the project expired. So the applicant requested an administrative determination. The determination was to deny the request based on what was submitted and its inconsistencies with the PD master plan. The applicant is here tonight to
determine um well the applicant is here tonight to appeal to the city commission the denial development order issued at an administrative level. So we're going to go back to the beginning of the project. December 7th, 2023, the applicant submitted um to the
paper a cap meeting advertisement. The purpose of their meeting is as our CAP meetings require to inform nearby residents, present their initial concept and gather feedback. The applicant's public representation was a project described as a mixeduse development. It included multif family units and
commercial out parcels. Commercial frontage shown along St. John's Parkway. The key takeaway from the earliest stages, the applicant publicly represented the project as a mixed use with commercial components consistent with the PD that was ultimately approved in 2024.
So on April 12th, 2024, the first reading, there was discussion regarding the project. The commission discussed and then statements were made regarding to the ground floor of the live work town homes being commercial. The applicant confirmed that the elevation showing commercial frontage adjacent to
St. John Parkway. He identified the project as unique like nothing else in Sanford and complimented surrounding uses. I'm going to play some audio clips from the hearing. So, they're a little bit long, but just listen through because this is what was discussed on behalf of the commission at the time.
>> Okay. So each of the little boxes is a single vertical unit. >> That is correct. It's sort of think town home, but then the section of it is um and it's got its own each of them have their own garage um as do all the the town home units on the back, but the
live work units along um St. John's Parkway. We wanted to have a commercial element along St. John's Parkway, but also have it. How do you do that and and create a blend where it, you know, is it I mean, we've got apartments all
around us. And so, typically what you would want to see, you know, from a planning perspective is units clustered together rather than, you know, sprawl. And so, we've really worked, again, I live in one and it works phenomenally. I love it.
>> Okay. So, a single a single renter will rent the entire >> correct. Okay. And well, I'll get I'll have Eileen come up and answer. Not yet. Well, he um and then the units in the back are sort of the same except the
bottom floor is not. >> That's correct. >> Right. And so what we were trying to do again and and and so what we've done is we've pulled the buildings as close as possible to the road and pushed the parking in the back >> again, you know, a tenant of, you know,
um a a facet of planning where you know what you what you see is not parking right up you know um along the road. And so we're creating more character along St. John's Parkway than has ever been developed along that roadway from my
perspective. >> And so the live work units that is the extent of any commercial correct >> in the project. Correct. >> Correct. And again what we're trying to do is is establish that new commercial use and
not compete with all the retail that's there. Um again the the old Pali property um you know that's that's being developed now um you know there's retail that's under construction right currently um and so what we want to do
is be good neighbors to it and have complimentary commercial uses that are not retail that is competitive to what's already out there. >> All right. >> Okay. So the public hearing continued. The commissioners discussed the building
makeups and the uses. Former district 2 commissioner Mahaney inquired into the building mix. The applicant then explains creativity step down a blend of three and four stories and >> four. Yes ma'am.
>> Four story. >> Uh I understood the plan. Four story. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Four story. >> Uh, so the the the building on the left
is four, the rest is three. So, we wanted to step it down >> and again to try to add character >> to create almost two neighborhoods within one community. Again, I don't I have toured all of Central Florida and I
have never seen anything like quite like this done. >> Okay. So the commission approved ground floor commercial storefronts showing commercial facads treatments, facade treatments, signage elements, glazing and outdoor cafe areas which you can see
on the elevations before you. They have signage shows sprinkles cafe. It has a a patio area where people are outside eating and gathering. But these are the commercial storefronts that are relative. Yeah, >> he actually said that live work units
are two separate units. That's that's unique from what we were presented a month ago. >> No, that's a single unit. >> I know, but yes, they're not. >> Why? That is why I'm I'm making sure that we all agree to the same definition.
>> That's the definition we thought it was. >> Yes. Well, thank you, Mr. Holmes. Yes. All right. Thank you. Um Eileen, I have one quick question for you. So as discussed that was compared to some prior commercial first floor that turned out to not be commercial first
floor in a previous development. >> Yeah. He actually said that >> so 2024 commission adopts ordinance 4799. It was a mixed use BD with mixed building types commercial storefronts
along St. John's Parkway with a maximum of 337 multif family units. 24 live work units and up to 36,440 square ft of required GC2 commercial space. The first floor of the live work
must remain commercial. Is there anything to require that the bottom floor remain office retail other than that's what it's described as in the PD? anything to require like you could put something in the development order as
one of the additional conditions if you feel that that's necessary to make sure that it maintains that we work with the applicant to get commercial along that frontage because it is St. John's just like our other main roads. It it provides for that commercial frontage. Um but yeah, an additional condition
would not be objected to by staff stating that the first floor must remain some element of commercial. >> Okay. Mr. Do you object to that? Okay. And I'm not I I know your that is your plan, but I
also know how things go eventually. Okay. very >> okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, I would like to add that as a condition that the first floor of the live work units are required to be
>> to remain commercial >> to remain a some element of commercial. >> Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. The Okay. So, the development plan was then submitted by the applicant. The there was a change in use and design mix
reducing the mixed building types that were previously described and there are now four four-story apartment buildings and three town home buildings at two stories each. They eliminated the formal commercial and carriage homes that were noted on the PD. And then the DP was
reviewed by staff and after consensus was unable to be achieved. It expired because of our statutory timeline. So the proposed three-story live work town homes that were approved with the PD had
dedicated commercial on the first floor as we heard discussed by the city commission. The public storefront had glazing, signage fans, commercial facades. There were no residential kitchens, bathrooms, or private living areas spoke of on the first commercial level. The residential living space were
located on floors two and three. There was a clear separation between what was commercial activity and what was private residence. The PD required a commercial use, not a residential space with an option to flex. The proposed two-story town homes that
came in with the development plan are now two-story residential town homes that on the first floor include a garage, which the commission was aware of because that was spoken of. But it also includes kitchen and living areas, interior stairs, and a small enclosed work room that would be shielded by a
barn door with no separate commercial suite, no storefront or outdoor cafe areas, no commercial parking, and no determined ADA access. The building functions as a dwelling with limited optional use area, not a mixeduse unit with the dedicated live work space.
So, home occupations are residential, not commercial. A home occupation is an activity that's conducted by the applicant and maintained within a dwelling unit and shall be incidental to the primary residential use of the premises. Generally defined as conducted within a dwelling unit, incidental and
subordinate to the principal residential use. Flex space inside a town home cannot satisfy the requirement for the dedicated commercial space or GC2 commercial uses. Home occupations are residential accessory uses occurring only as incidental and ancillary
activities within a primary dwelling unit, not as a commercial use. So the 2025 development plan no longer has a dedicated mixed use. It's residential with an optional second use.
36,000 square ft of commercial is now zero square ft of committed commercial. The live work as previously defined has been modified. The carriage homes were either removed or not identified and the mixed building types became four four-story buildings.
So the loss of commercial on the first floor from the plan development to the development plan. The approved PD showed first floor dedicated commercial use. PD required 36,000 square feet of GC2 commercial and it had public facing commercial road frontage. The development plan proposes first floor
residential use with an option for flex space. Commercial square footage dedicated is zero. The flex space is part of the dwelling and not a true commercial space. So a single room inside a home cannot replace an entire commercial floor. Mhm.
>> So applicant reversed prior commitments by asserting that the limited flex space within the residential living area qualifies as commercial. A home occupation satisfies the PD commercial requirements and they were unable to address staff comments due to
disagreement on the PD requirements. So under the proposed development plan, live work is optional, not guaranteed. Town home owners may or may not use the flex area for business. There's no requirement that any unit operate a commercial use. If used for work, the
space for residential, the space is residential and incidental. If used for work, the residential the resident loses usable residential space. If not used for work, the unit is 100% residential. And either way, the PD's required
commercial is not provided. So, the PD required commercial space, not optional flex space. The potential barriers under the new design. Customers enter through the residential front door. Only restrooms available for that commercial space is within the private living
space. No commercial parking is provided on the plan and outstanding questions on fire separation and ADA access remain with staff. So the commercial opportunity is limited to meeting space for individual clients, not full office, retail or cafe use as was shown in the
PD master plan originally. You can see on the floor plan which is in your staff report as well as on the report in front of you that the area dedicated in these individual units is somewhere around 150 square ft. So administrative official issues a
denial development order finding the request inconsistent with the PD master plan, the development order, the ordinance, city commission stated intent, the GC2 commercial standards, and the applicant's 2024 representations and testimony. The administrative official determined these changes
require a PD amendment. These changes alter the use mix, the building form, the commercial square footage, and the public facing function of the PD. Such changes exceed the scope of the administrative interpretation and require a formal PD amendment under the land development regulations.
So the applicant is appealing the administrative officials decision under article 4 section 10A of the land development regulations. The matter is now being brought before the city commission as a quasi judicial hearing. So some other information that is was
brought to the applicant's attention early on which is why staff worked with the applicant to pursue commercial uses was based on the east west connection the east west connection road and the extension that is now called St. John's Parkway. It was funded as an industrial
access infrastructure. state and federal grants required non-residentidential job creating development corridor designed westside industry and commerce to align with funding purposes. The PD incorporated a 36,000 square foot commercial consistent with funding intent and removing the commercial
contradicts the stated purpose of the publicly funded roadway. The roadway was funded as an industrial access project, not a residential one. funding sources tied to the east west connector required non-residential economic development outcomes. So roadway funding initiatives, the
Florida EDTF, which is the economic development transportation fund, was utilized along the east west connector road. The EDTF funds are legally restricted to projects that support industrial or commercial job creation, provide public access to non-residential development, and enable utility and
power upgrades for business use. It's not optional. They were statutory. Okay. The roadway funding initiatives, the Florida DCA economic development infrastructure grants required non-residential outcomes. DCA grants active in 1999 through 2003 were
restricted to industrial access, commercial corridor improvements, and infrastructure supporting job producing land uses. Other funds that were used by the county and city as part of their capital programs also required commercial corridor development, utility power upgrades for business parks, and
industrial access improvements. The nexus between the roadway funding and the required commercial uses. The St. John's Parkway funding, the PD was approved as consistent with an original purpose of the roadway. It included 36,000 plus square feet of commercial
ground tour commercial storefronts, a mixeduse development and public facing commercial activity. The requirement was consistent, not arbitrary, the original purpose of the roadway, the funding conditions that justified its construction and the economic development goals of the westside industry and commerce futurellaneous
designation. So the project fails the public trust and roadway funding purposes if the PD approval of commercial access commercial corridor development and job creating non-residential uses. The original PD upheld that purpose 36,000 square ft of
commercial true mixeduse live work buildings and public facing commercial frontage. The development plan then erodess that purpose. There's no single commercial floor, no dedicated commercial frontage, no committed commercial square footage, and the optional flex space/home occupations do
not create enough commercial activity. So the DP undermines the public purpose of the roadway investment and the intent of the east west connector. So why it was not approved administratively? By requesting an administrative determination, the applicant sought to remove the dedicated
commercial floor, allow ground floor to be garage, kitchen, living area, and optional flex space, removing dedicated commercial use, redesign the live work buildings from three to two floors, eliminating a building type committed to in the PD. Remove the committed mixeduse component and replace it with
potentially single-use residential, and change the building heights, massing, and mixed use. The denial determined the PD requirements have been materially altered and it was determined that a formal PD amendment is required for the project as designed. So with that staff
recommends that the city commission or requests that the city commission uphold the denial development order because the ground floor commercial was required. The home occupations are not a substitute for that commercial space. The PD proposal contradicts 20 2024 PD
commitments. The PD requires commercially constructed and commercially functional space and this degree of change requires a formal PD amendment to remove those requirements. >> Any questions? >> You have done your homework.
>> Yeah. Where was um commercial parking originally? Was there a layout that showed that? Um the CD is this one. So it was calculated in I think the easier
way to show this is here. So in your chart in your reports this chart so you can actually read the numbers but um there's an actual dedicated calculation for the commercial parking. >> It was only calculated though it wasn't showing
>> it was right but it was based on So they had intended commercial uses required commercial parking at 1.5 spaces per residential unit one space per 500 square feet of commercial includes garage for carriage homes and with live work units the total parking
supply was designed to support mixed use including customers employees and residents. Okay. But um I think go back to the one that showed the cafes >> that's here or
>> go one more. Oh, maybe it was forward. There was another view of that that was further away. >> A few. Oh, yes. I have It's long. This one that has the whole length of the building on the left there.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, the picture we have, it makes it look like there's parking to the side of that, but I can't really tell. And all of the diagrams make it look like all the parking was behind these buildings anyway. >> Yeah. >> Is that correct? >> Behind the building and to the left. >> Right. But for development standards,
the PD was designed to incorporate commercial parking to accommodate for the commercial uses and those are no longer on the DP at all. >> Okay. Maybe not. Okay. Say that again. >> Okay. So
Oh, I found the table. I understand now. >> Okay. So on the parking on the table on the right, >> there's nothing that says non-residential parking. >> Correct. Okay, >> it's just been eliminated, i.e. noting that they're eliminating commercial use.
So there's if a guest were to come, they only have 1.5 spaces per unit as it is and our minimum is two. They've reduced it down to 1.5 and then they've added no additional commercial parking for the commercial that may or may not
exist. >> Well, and there Figure six development plan. I think that's would remove commercial. They have two two spaces per dwelling unit. >> Standard park unit. Okay. >> Yeah. So they went up half a unit, half
a space per unit, but >> Right. >> Okay. But that's still does not include non-residential parking. Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other questions? >> No. Thank you
for Hollis. >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the commission. Eileen, how do I uh access the presentation that we >> Well, you sent a series of Adam Okay. So, I think I'll start with um a
little bit of background and and so this piece of property um there's a reason it hasn't been developed and everything else around it has. Okay. So if you if you look at the shape of the property um and and how narrow it is as it
approaches Reinhardt Road um the the power lines that consume a very significant portion of the property um and then the conveyance ditch an 80 foot wide conveyance ditch that was uh deed to the city um by the Kelly family. All
of that was done for economic development reasons. So what staff is uh suggesting here is that really St. John's Parkway and this piece of property um is really an economic development tool and and so what I would
uh submit to you is that the Kelly family and subsequent owners i.e. our firm of the property are complying with that. We are contributing to that. And so, uh, the Kelly family deeded, uh,
some portions of the, uh, St. John's Parkway along with Reinhardt Road. Um, they also provided for the storm water ponds. Uh, so you can see there's, if you look at, and I'm going to step up to
the just to try to point this out. Thank you. Um so if you look at the easement that encompasses the power lines uh running north and then you know east west you can see where that creates a very small useful parcel um in that
sort of triangle triangular area and then the large storm water pond for a 17 acre parcel of land. it really limits that development opportunity, you know, to the east of of it. And then the
balance of the parcel um along Reinhardt Road is a very narrow sliver. So the owner of this parcel, they tried to market it as as retail. Nobody was interested. They tried to market it as industrial, nobody was interested. So
when we're talking about Westside, you know, industry and commerce, how do you really effectuate that? It's easy to kind of put a designation on a piece of property, uh, but really in practice, how does that work? So,
what we were able to do, um, is to come up with a program and ultimately agreed with, you know, the commission back in 2024, uh, that we would create these LIB work units. It was stated very clearly that
it was not intended to be retail because if you look at the residential versus non-residential units or or you know acreage in this corridor, there's a ton of non-residential area. So when we're talking about commercial, I think what
we're really saying is is retail. I mean obviously Seminal Town Center um you know is undergoing a a redevelopment process right now. you're I wouldn't think you would want res uh excuse me industrial right across
the street from you know the Walmart uh heading into what is the corridor for your gateway to seminal town center you're going to want to have a more um you know sort of uh homogeneous feel in
terms of how to get to that gateway and so that's what we did that's what we came up with so it was very clear that the extent % of the commercial development that was to be incorporated within our project were the live work
units. So that's what was approved by the commission unanimously. Following that, we got into the engineering side of it even further and met with FPL. Originally, if you looked
at what was approved, that master plan, it included parking underneath the power line. um areas and in that easement FPL uh notified us sometime after our our approvals that they would not approve.
They would not allow and so again let's go back to 1.5 spaces per residential unit was the total amount of parking provided for the project. There was not some additional 36,000 square ft. We
estimated that the uh live work units were approximately 36,440 square feet. And so that was the commercial component. It wasn't the the woodwork units and
36,000 square feet. And and Mr. Mayor, you and I spoke about that, you know, very very explicitly. uh that that the extent of the commercial or the live work units and and so I also very clearly stated once again that I'm not trying to compete with the additional
retail. So if you look up at the northwest corner so again going back to my statement about how to effectuate the intent of what is trying to be accomplished here. You've got a developer that has um a retail
development that he's trying to just to the west of Story. He's inhibited by storm water ponds just like I'm inhibited by storm water ponds that that take runoff from the roadways. He's had that project approved for years, several
years, and has emailed each of you um his full support. he's not been able to get tenants to sign up because he has inferior access and and it just doesn't work for retail perspective or other
type of commercial. So, what we've done without being asked by staff by the commission, we provided him with an access point running through our parcel to get out to the traffic signal at St. John's Parkway and Reinhardt Road. So
again, we're trying to work through the different aspects of a very difficult site uh that has a lot of constraints about how to mix the uses. So in my view, the mixeduse component is live work.
Uh we stated Matland City Center uh multiple times in in the last commission meeting. Um and and the Matland City Center units with respect to the live work aspect specifically, those are inside of a building in an interior
corridor that you can't really tell until you get up uh you know from the elevator that those are the live work units and that's where they're designated. So these are completely separate units and and and if you look at staff's report figure five the PD
site data sheet it says that the maximum height for the commercial portion would be 35t to the peak in in in parenthesis twotory max. So we designed within that
twotory maximum you know parameter. So again, these units are large. They're uh almost 1,600 ft² for the for the smallest unit, almost 1,900 square ft for the larger units. They're separate from the the rest of the uh the
community. And so I stand by what I said. This is a separate neighborhood within a larger community. The context of what these units look like, we have a commercial facade. Um, everything that we agreed to is really substantive in nature to what we've submitted within
our development plan. With that, I'll pause for a second. Does anybody have any questions about kind of where our thoughts have gone thus far? But when we um did the PD, wasn't it
very clear the lib work units would be threetory? >> So there were there was a concept image and I think that's what people latched on to. There was a concept image of and I was encouraged
to look to the maximum height that you would want. I didn't know if we would develop two or threetory town home units and I said think town homes but with a work component. Again, this is enhancing upon what is done in other areas of
central Florida i.e. Mland City Center whereby these are in a those units are in a flat. There's one one plane that's not two stories where there's you know separation between the living areas i.e. the bedrooms and laundry room and all
those other sorts of things. Um, and and the work area, these live work units, they're the only ones in the entire project where you have this meandering sidewalk literally right in front and you have a an access
point from a pedestrian perspective to that front door, right? The resident enters from the garage. I mean, just like every one of us goes home and we go and we we pull in our garage. So, it was truly meant to be that uh sort of
pedestrian frontage. And if you look at the renderings um and the elevations of what we've provided, it's a very enhanced style and different style uh than what these residential buildings are, the four-story residential
buildings. This is Matland City Center. These units, they come in from an interior corridor. There's additional um we circulated some memos. Um so there's other examples uh
you know throughout uh central Florida about how these units work and function. You can see this one is just kind of a screen. Um it's not even the the barn door concept. >> I don't know how that's relevant. That's not it's it's not the same WIC that
we're looking at here. I mean, it looks it it could be a great idea given where it's going to be. And maybe your great ideas are great somewhere, but I'm not hearing anything that disputes what
we've been told through a very thorough presentation about why we can't do this. And yeah, it's a complex piece of property. >> In what respect? So specific >> in every respect that we've just gone through slides and slides and slides of nothing you have said tells me that you
are justified in your approach here. >> So so the as discussed in the approval meeting the extent of the commercial was to be the lib work units. I have provided >> first floor commercial. >> Pardon? >> First floor commercial
>> live work I and I for commercial I did not say and I specifically stated that I did not intend for them to be retail. >> I didn't hear that. I listened to that whole meeting as well and I did not hear that.
Let me ask you this. Why are you so wed to the combination of working and living on the first floor as opposed to all commercial? >> So in my office I have a restroom and I haven't
>> I'm sorry but I >> I don't care about your office. That's not what we're talking about here. >> He hasn't lived working yet. >> Well, I Well, I get that, but >> because because our planning department insists on cramming
jamming commercial into these properties that just isn't working right now. And so this is a concept. >> Well, neither is adding that many more apartments where we already have >> something brought to us. And at the time
that commission agreed that this was a novel idea, but worth exploring. >> Um, live work units is what was supposed to be built downtown Sanford in Heritage Park. If I may submit to to to the
commission. So the land development code that the city has the definition of a live work unit is pretty broad. >> Okay. And it basically states that it's a you know a studio apartment with space to both live and work. Okay. We've I
think very clearly well exceeded that. And I'm giving you examples with um you know very wellrespected developments within the Central Florida community that have been constructed and and I actually live there and I explained all
of these things and the the way that it would function, the way that it would work, the way it would it would appear to you know um from a pedestrian standpoint as well as you know vehicular standpoint. Um so you know if you look at the reference from the city
commission hearing at that time um and I mean it was truly not intended to be retail a separate you know entity on its own. It was it was intended to be and that's what the commission approved and and Mr. Mayor and I described that
that's the extent of the commercial. There's not some new phantom 36,000 square feet of commercial that that we could accommodate. And we couldn't have 36,000 square feet of commercial on a 1.5 parking ratio. The 1.5 parking ratio
was calculated on the 361 units, right, of of residential andor live work. So, so it just simply wouldn't work from a commercial perspective. You would never approve that. it would never fall within the GC2 guidelines and so it's just
simply physically impossible. >> So, so I think it's a mischaracterization or misunderstanding about what was actually approved versus what we have submitted and applied for. >> Um, no, >> I agree with you, Commissioner Thomas,
and I don't I don't think that it's a uh that we're confused. This is not what was presented to us. And then basically what we're approving is whether it's consistent with the the mixeduse plan. And I agree with Commissioner Thomas on that. What you're presenting to us does
not match up with what was presented to us >> and the way it's intended to be used based on the funding that was approved. >> We're we're 20 years past that and nothing has ever happened on that property. I would just
>> if I may add just with regard to a legal uh perspective, >> the the issue before mayor and commissioners is not what the definition of live work is. The issue before the commission is what was agreed to for
this development um and whether the plans that are submitted whether they're consistent with what was agreed to. If it is the contention of the developer that the developer cannot do what was agreed to, that is why staff has
determined that a PD amendment would be required. And that may get the developer where the developer wants to go. But based upon what is before you now, it is what was agreed to at that previous uh determination when that ordinance was
adopted and whether the plan is consistent with that. >> And it is not. And if it is not, then a PD amendment would be required to get the developer to where they want to go. >> Thank you. >> Hold on a second. In the original
development order, did it spell out the 38,000 square ft of commercial? >> It did not. It reflected specifically to comply with the data tables that were in the PD master plan, which is what that top table shows you, that figure five,
which reflects multif family specifically, including um parking garages that they don't meet the total of right now, the spaces of 1.5 per unit, the lane use mix that was depicted on it, it reflected back to the
PD master plan in the development order. And to that point, a development order can consider and is also inclusive of all testimony and evidence that was presented during the adjudication of that matter, which why is why it would be important and and I did go back and
review um and listen to the tapes for that meeting. It would be important to know what was testified to and what was agreed to at that meeting because that is incorporated into the order. >> Okay. My name is Todd Norman Nelson Mullins.
Joe Baker, who I know you've worked with on this. Joe's husband uh had had a procedure today, wasn't able to attend, so I'm attending in her place, uh represent third wave to be clear. So I that what she said is exactly right. You have to consider whether what we're doing is consistent with what you
approved. And I know a couple of you at least have some significant concerns and that probably all of you. So I'd like to walk through and make sure that we've addressed those concerns directly. I think there might be a little bit of confusion there. The 38 I think it was 36,000 square
feet. Mr. Hollis was asked directly and it's on the tape and I think you guys have heard it a clip of it was played earlier. Is the live work the extens extent of the commercial? And he said
yes. He was very clear on that that would be the only commercial. So then the question is have we brought you live work in the concept that you were thinking about and a couple other things on that. Remember that there was actually a motion to make it commercial
space only. Actually someone suggested that and I don't know if you heard it because it kind of slid by there at the end. They did not say it would be commercial only. It would be of a type of commercial is exactly the words you guys decided to use. I'm not blaming anyone or saying anything. at the
commercial I think said yes some element they use the phrase some element that's right so and again I'm not trying to blame or be confrontational I'm trying to make clear what I think the record said >> which was that some element would be so you might be wondering though why are we so confused about live work here because
shouldn't it just be you know look the code says this is live work you got it you don't have it good not unfortunately your code doesn't have a definition that you can directly apply to this as Mr. Holl said the only place it comes up it's very broadly defined is just basically a studio apartment with an
office in it is sufficient. So that's all your code does. And so I think your staff is trying hard to set a precedent here of what they think the lip work should be and I respect that. That's their job. But I don't think that in fairness to this developer that was what
was discussed. I haven't he hasn't shown the slides yet, but there's when you look at what he's designed, you've got a front frontage that is clearly intended to be professional type retail. Well, there's the other. Yeah. Professional
like retail where you come in, CPA has his sign above you, you come in the door under the CPA sign, there's an office there in front of you. That was the concept he thinks that was approved with live work that this would be a situation
where the person live behind. Now remember you just heard too and and because you did point out well you know you initially discussed three stories and there's no doubt that's absolutely was true. You also heard him read though where they said the staff stolen was limited to 35 ft two stories max. So you
can't and I don't mean this in a confrontation way but you can't do both right. You can't both meet twotory max and build three story buildings. I mean there are things we can't do and so it did get a little bit shoehorned in by the requirements staff put on which is fair by them. They are entitled to have
requirements but it shoehorned in a little bit. So it wasn't and as you point out Commissioner Thompson Thomas it was it's very fair of you to say well why are you so wed to it? Well when it shoehorns down to two stories it becomes difficult to get it all in. So
understood your point exactly. >> Get I don't want to forget I take a 100 notes. Eileen, you were talking about the restrooms, right? Because now he's talking about the concept and and all of that. Did you say that the restrooms are only in the residential space? Yeah. Of the Okay. So, that's not a concept that
works for commercial if if someone has to come in and then go into the residential space for the restrooms. >> So, so you're I I hear what you're saying and you're right. Let's talk about that for a moment. So, two issues on what you just described. One is that of course these aren't supposed to be
pure commercial and so understand it wouldn't meet the commercial code. What you just said that part is 100% right. But the second thing you said is the more practical statement which is you know for a traditional store retail there's no way you can have some guy come into your front door and go use
your bathroom that's got you know I don't know whatever your your bathroom that's back there that's a residential bathroom. I understand that these again this comes back to the problem that the code doesn't really define live work. He's trying to define something that
isn't defined in your code. This is meant more for as you saw like an accountant who has someone come into his office who does most of his work in his office in the front room and someone can come in and and fill a few things out. It's not meant for a heavy commercial
usage. That's not what his concept was. We I we think it's consistent with what he said because you'll recall they played the clip and I mean I want to compliment staff because they made sure they played full clips that explained everything. There was one place where he said I don't want to compete with the retail across the street. I think he
said I can't compete with the retail across the street. He's not trying to do that. He's trying to do the kind of things he showed you which are small storefronts that you know because again in your house if you have a 1900 foot house you cannot have a substantial commercial activity in there. You can have a small
segregated activity for a lawyer's office or an accountant's office or something like that. You cannot have heavy commercial use in 1900 square feet and also have your home. That's just not possible. So fitting in, again, this is the three stories had to come down to
two. There were, you know, by both staff and he give and take to try to get there. And and your point though is very well taken, which is that it is dim. you could not have any substantial commercial use like you're describing it and use a a restroom restroom with the
person who lives there. But I don't think that's his concept. And the problem I think the fairness to both staff and Mr. Hollis is the problem has been your code doesn't have an actual definition of live work. And I mean that is no offense. I think most cities probably don't have that in their code. But it doesn't. And so he's trying to
interpret what you guys talked about at the last meeting into what he thinks is the project and your staff's interpreting in a different way and you know they're doing their best and I know they are but I do think in fairness his means closest to what you talked about previously.
>> Council I would just want to over this way I just want to clarify it is not that staff is attempting to define live work. is that staff is applying what the parties, the city and the developer agree to as to how this project would be
developed. And that's why it's impertinent and important to go back to what was represented at the time of the original meeting. And again, it does not mean that you don't get to where you want to go, but that the process in doing so, if you're wanting to deviate
either because you find the property uh does not meet what it is that you want to do, the market has changed, whatever it may you now have power lines or easements, whatever it is, whatever is causing you, if it is deemed that you've deviated, it requires a PD amendment to
get you to where it is that you want to be. But I don't want to be lost on this point of it being an issue of defining live and work. >> I mean, I think your statement is fair. I would say that one thing though because it goes directly to what you just said because I agree with
everything you just said. It goes directly to that, right? Because for better or worse, these parties, if you listen to that, hey, I'll bet you once they use the word live work 50 times. And so somehow you have to define it because they're using the phrase and
they have to decide if they've met it. This this panel has to this commissioner has to decide if he met it with this proposal or not. If he's consistent, which is exactly what you >> not if this panel has come to the conclusion that it was clear that that first floor was to be commercial, then your issue of definition is irrelevant.
It's what the parties agree to do. And it will be up to this commission and mayor to determine whether extensive commercial meant different facets of commercial, but definitely commercial on the on the first floor with these units above that.
That is what the council will have to be determined. Now, mind you, your statements today are not evidence >> for for the council. You've not been sworn in as a as a witness. So, the only evidence that the commission can consider is that which has been testified to by the sworn in developer.
>> Okay, let's get this back over to the to the commission. Um, let me make a a couple observations and then ask a couple of questions. In figure five, the PD site data sheet, the residential multif family has
fourtory, threetory carriage building live work units. Okay. It doesn't say how tall the live work units would be. It doesn't say how tall the carriage buildings would be. Then underneath where I assume it's talking about pure
commercial >> says it's a two-story max. Mhm. >> So, I as I remember it and looking, you know, back at the the pictures and listening to the tape, I thought it was
going to be a three-story building downstairs commercial, two floors of live living above. Looking at these designs, is it and this is sort of what we talked
some of what we talked about before. Um but you know raising the issue of the restroom um if and I'm not saying that this will meet the the requirements of the approved PD but
I'm sort of looking at where we can go forward if the restroom was used to separate the commercial space from the living space and the stairwell was reversed. So, you
don't go through the commercial space to get to the upstairs living space. Is that feasible? Is it feasible to go to three stories? Um, and is that is that a path that can get us to where we're trying to go?
And I'm not really sure who I'm even asking that question to. >> I was wondering the same thing. >> Okay. I've been waiting patiently on the applicant. So, as you've described it, there were residential multif family, which included the multif family buildings, which was the fourstory off
on the west side. Then the east side of the property had threetory, the town home, live work, and what were going to be the carriage homes as well as a couple of other multi-story buildings in between. the
um live work units fall under that section that they could be up to fourstory but there was distinctly conversation between commissioner Mahaney and the applicant that stated those buildings would be threetory then there was discussion regarding the first four being the commercial element
so the commercial piece here that says maximum height twotory as you've identified that gives this PD the ability if they should choose to although the applicant has determined that that's not the path to go forward They could build a two-story commercial
building on its own, but it was not to exceed twotory because of the other buildings around it. There's twotory across the street for commercial and there's multi-story residential behind. They didn't want multi-story commercial competing heightwise with the residential behind it. By doing the
threetory town home, you got the first floor commercial element and then the two stories of which you could fit all of your you know your unit spaces in it. which is the way that staff understood the PD to be based on what this element
says. In addition, the commercial first floor for every 500 ft of commercial was allocated a parking space based on the parking calculation. If there was a separate commercial building, it would have the same. But these charts are not charts that staff made. We did not force
anyone into a design. These are both straight out of master plan and straight out of the development plan that the applicant has provided to staff to try to see if there is compatibility between the two and staff does not see the compatibility with the DP that's been submitted to the PD that was approved by
the commission >> and our our recommendation and eventually action for denial was based on the fact that the compatibility is not there. Therefore, the applicant is here before you as noted by the attorney to determine whether or not the actions
that this commission took requiring certain elements to be present in this property are currently present and if the existing presentation of the development plan meets those requirements. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you.
Do you have comments on that? >> Well, I wouldn't mention just the parking just because it's been mentioned to be clear. It was always 1.5. I my understanding. I wasn't here at the first meeting. So I I I can only tell you what I've heard on the tape and what I've seen in the document which is it was 1.5 which is a compromise between
the traditional commercial requirement and the residential requirement. It remains the exact same 1.5. So I don't want there to be even though it's late not labeled commercial on the current plan, it's still exactly 1.5. So I don't want there to be any misunderstanding that there's been some deviation. Well,
>> it says there were two for carriage and live work units. two per carriage lip work unit and then an additional one space per per 500 ft of non-residential. >> Sorry for the delay. I think this is
important to look at understand. >> Okay. Do you want the drawing or do you want the table? this year. This is the new one. While we're waiting, um, Attorney Green, I just have a question. Should the commission be trying to figure out configuration? I mean, I appreciate what
the mayor is doing, but are should we be trying to do that? Because the mayor was talking about whether we should, you know, how to do the bathroom and giving examples, but I remember Mr. group telling us that we needed to be careful about certain
things that we uh I want to make sure I'm saying the right things. I'm not trying to to get at art, but we should be careful about recommendations and anything like that. Should we be giving input about the
configuration of of um the the unit? Ultimately the issue before this day is is whether what was presented by the developer is in compliance with the development order including testimony and evidence that was presented. If if
it is not then the recommendation from uh in the administrative proceeding was to deny it. If you find that it is in compliance then you have that decision decision. Now there can be some discussions to see if there's an ability to resolve it but that is the ultimate
issue before this day is >> that's the only thing that we're concerned about. >> Again you can have those discussions as to whether there's a resolution but the legal issue in front of this deis is whether it is in conformance what is what is being presented is in conformance with what was approved.
>> Okay. One more question. So then um because staff has already given us their uh denial and they've cited it, do the does the commission have to come back and site something different or can we go with the suggested motion if the
commission decided to do a denial? Say that again. >> We can go with the suggested motion, I think. >> Yes. Yeah. You're just making a motion. >> Okay. Because usually if we're going to denial, then we have to site A, B, and C. >> As to why the for. But because we're going to uphold, we don't have to do
that now. We can just go with the situation. >> Just go straight to the motion. Yes, Commissioner. Thank you. >> And if we do that, then they can do a amended PD a PD amendment. >> Let's get through this first. >> Okay.
>> So, I would just like to illustrate where the live work element of this project, what was approved or what was included in the master plan, which was a much more densified product
um or project that also you can see includes parking underneath those power lines, not available. But specifically with respect to these units out along St. John's Parkway. They're substantially similar to what we've
submitted in our development plan application. If you also look as we got into the engineering, right, we didn't have all the pond hydraology. We didn't have all of these things determined before we got to the initial approvals.
If you look at the land area, that's all buildings in in in a small pond area. This is a massive pond with another massive pond and these power lines. It's not as though we're trying
to um change course whatsoever. It's we have to modify elements of our development plan based on given conditions that we uncover at the time that engineering studies uh
reveal them. And so what we're talking about are the live work units. They're the same units. That's really what we're talking about. So I mean, if we're looking at it strictly from a master plan standpoint and and recognizing that I specifically
said, I'm not trying to build retail >> and I even said office is a four-letter word in real estate development at that time because at that time it was. And so this was living and working from an office perspective. And yes, maybe somebody would have a cupcake shop or or
you know, a hair salon or something of that type. But anyway, I just wanted to make that sure that was very clear that what we've done here that was approved is nearly identical to what we've submitted. >> We have three buildings now of the same
height, right? compared to what was >> they're now twotory and the residential is split between the first and second floor whereas on the original renderings the first floor was going to be commercial and the second third was living above those as one unit the way
it was depicted with the renderings and the discussion between the commission and the applicant. So staff is moving forward based on their understanding of what the master plan was supposed to delineate the as you can see we've worked with the applicant we understand
that he can't have the parking in the FPL we tried to assist in modification but there is a distinct and material difference and it's substantially different from the PD master plan in layout building types and enough of the master plan is not the same that staff
had to deny it from their perspective >> yeah and and Even though it sounds like you're trying to do the right thing, it's still very different from what it was. And I know you found more challenges >> interpretation. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the actual ordinance has
pictures in it that shows threetory apartments with first floor live work. >> And then again, in the testimony during the hearing, it was some element of commercial and it
was office and it was not retail. Those are the consistent themes throughout that discussion. Some office I mean some element of commercial could be daycare, could be office, could be retail, could be
restaurant, could be cafe, could be widget making, could be a a jewelry manufacturer. Any number of things are some element of commercials, but it's still the first floor. But it wasn't the entirety of the first floor. >> I was just going to say I don't I don't
remember hearing anything there was the first floor was exclusive. There may be some assumption that also I I would note that when they talked about the height of the buildings they talked about that there was going to be a mix of heights >> and that some were four and I think in that discussion they talked about some
three and some two. >> There was no discussion of two. >> I thought some of the carriage houses and stuff were. No, >> there was no discussion of two. >> Okay. I my understanding was it was again I was there I heard the change so but anyway you have to decide I think that the the key though is you have to
decide whether it was consistency with the idea that you guys had at the time and discussed at the hearing I and I there can definitely be you know disagreements on that. I think from our perspective he brought something that is consistent with the same ideas that you
had. Rightfully staff doesn't think it's consistent with the ideas that were discussed probably a matter of interpretation. What was important to people as they were hearing that day. Okay, I'm ready. >> All right. So,
just so I'm unclear, it sounds like our options are Say that the development plan does meet the PD. Say that the development plan does not
meet the PD. In which case, what is their path forward? If we uphold the denial, >> they need to resubmit a PD reszone application >> and get new approvals for a different data set, table, building types, mix of
uses, whatever they bring forth. that meets what their goal is to develop because what their goal to develop right now to staff has been found inconsistent with what the commission approved two years ago. >> Okay. And is there is there a middle
ground? And this may really be a question for the attorney where >> they've re where we specify what it takes for it to meet what we expected, deny it, and then they can submit a new
development plan. >> They could submit a new development plan, right? If you uphold the denial of their current development plan, they can keep their current master plan, redesign their development plan to meet what that development
um like the plan development, the concepts that were divid like submitted to you, the required minimums for commercial, required maximums, required maximums for residential. You could lay out what the expectation was at the
time and have them resubmit a development plan without a PD res. But whatever that DP comes in as has to be found consistent with what the commission anticipates this development is going to include. And right now what it includes is on the
top master plan which he cannot build because FPL prevents him from doing a lot of that. in addition to the standards which are included that site data table that's in your staff report which includes the residential multif family potentially a commercial building
if they went that route and then the parking that meets those requirements. So if they can meet what's in their current PD master plan with a new development plan they could move forward. >> All right. So, but in terms of the denial, the denial
was based on just these buildings, right? The rest of it was okay. >> No, I mean, that was the major hang-up point was the fact that there's no commercial anywhere. There's a potential for live work, >> okay, >> but none of those units can
>> set aside the live work unit, right? Are there other issues with the development plan? >> The lack of it being a mixeduse. >> Okay. Well, that's >> right. Part of right the lack of it being a mixed use, the parking configuration based on the that use and then
>> I don't understand how the parking configuration changed >> because they don't dedicate spaces for the commercial. They don't dedicate. So, if you created a first floor that was commercial, they have to allocate parking for that commercial and then they have to put it back in the site
data table >> stating that we have these floors of commercial. But they lost the table. >> Nearly identical. >> Okay. So, here's my personal thought
>> and then can talk some more and but then we still it's a public hearing. We need to see if anybody else wants to speak. If we could clearly Where did the table go?
Oh, there it is. If we could clearly separate the space downstairs. And to me, that would mean, you know, if I come into your office and want to use and need to use the restroom, I shouldn't have to walk through your kitchen to get to it.
um turn the staircase so that somebody coming downstairs from the bedrooms does not have to walk through the commercial space. Um, you know, they went from they've still got the
they went from 1.5 spaces per residential unit plus two spaces per live work unit plus one space per 500 square feet of
non-residential to two units for every dwelling unit. >> Now, that's the minimum calculation. What they've actually provided is below that. >> Ah, >> right. They're only providing 1.5 spaces
per unit, no commercial dedication. Therefore, saying there'll be no commercial. >> Okay. So, all right. So they have to so there have to be some work on the thing. >> So this can be done by reconfiguring the building or going back to three stories and >> right right now.
>> So in my mind that would that would be those changes would meet what I was expecting from the PD. I don't know about the rest of you. >> I'm still confused. But it would still be either we deny it and they come back with another development plan that that meets those
guidelines if the rest of the commission says yeah that we'll go with along with that if it comes back that way. >> Right. A development plan doesn't have to come to you unless it doesn't meet these requirements. Correct. >> You will have heard say this is what we met. >> Right. >> Okay. >> So if you look right now we did some rough calculations. We did not have full
dimensions but we did some rough calculations. This is what one of the units that they're proposing. So the total occupiable space is about 1370 ft. The workspace is dedicated at about 138 square ft. That would be the commercial allocation maximum allowed for this
unit. 138 ft. So the garage is 198 plus or minus the livable space minus the workspace and garage if they use the workspace as a workspace and not as a living room is 1,200 square ft. So the
total unit space is about 1,500 square f feet including the garage. So the percentage of the workspace within that is 8%. Well, nine if you round up. So this is one of the units. This is what's being considered commercial. And that's
only if the person who rents the space uses it as commercial. If every one of these 24 decided they wanted all 1500 ft as residential, there is absolutely zero commercial. And the applicant has made it clear during our staff meetings. Although it hasn't come up today, they've made it clear during our staff
meeting they're not going to require commercial. They scale the rent based on the use of the building. >> That's a concern I have too. >> Right. So it does not converation, you know, how do you enforce that, >> right? It does not meet that required
commercial element >> not being a mixeduse plan. So that's where staff falls in terms of it not meeting the PD requirements. So, I don't know how to fix that with the development plan unless actual
commercial space is dedicated and commercial parking is replaced back into the plan to meet those requirements as well. >> Okay. >> And another little question, Mr. Hollis, when you were talking about the barn door, is there a reason you chose a barn
door versus something that's that's more of a wall with a door that separates the potential noise in the kitchen and the TV blaring in the living room from work that's trying to be done in the office space? >> Sure. It's a commercially
um reasonable solution and it's also what is in Matland City Center which is the project that I represented and I modeled this project after and and spoke with the commission about at that time. >> Okay. But I'm I'm sorry, but that's kind of not an answer. Um how do you mitigate
the potential noise between the office and the living space with just a barn door? Well, it is an answer in the fact that it's already built and it's the project that I represented at the time. >> What I'm hearing is there's a concern
about separation more than whe >> so I do think the screen can tell you if I'm wrong about this if you will, but I do think that If you found it otherwise consistent and you're concerned that there was not a clear delineation
things like what mayor mentioned about perhaps turning the stairwell and and thus creating a wall space and repositioning the bathroom I don't think those couldn't be conditions on your approval here tonight if you think it's
otherwise I'm not obviously if you thought it was otherwise consistent I do think you can put those types of limitations on Mr. I do think that mayor, you know, again, he made his best effort to do it, but I understand there could be other good ideas that might might delineate it better.
>> Okay. Thank you, >> Commissioner Bren. >> I'm still confused because what I heard attorney Green say is we're supposed to be denying upholding what was brought before us about the the development order. And if we
need to do the PD, I don't understand why we're trying to do configuration as the commission. We're not engineers. Uh Eileen just gave us I don't know how many square footages of if what if this happened or that happened or if you turn this into the living room or whatever.
This is how we make a bunch of mistakes by just agreeing and saying things here at the at the meeting. I heard attorney Green and she can correct me is say what is before us is if we're going to move to uphold or not based upon if this is
consistent or not, not whether if we're changing things around. I'm I'm confused >> because that matter >> they can come back with another development plan and if we have made it clear to our staff what we intended when we passed the PD
they can um potentially get a a development plan that staff will approve without having to come out all the way back and do a whole new PD. >> So is that >> it gives them a a path forward path forward.
>> Okay. that we're working with them, you know, which people often ask us to do, um, to try to make it easier. Um, but we still hold them to what what we think. Now, and I'm just one person saying that's to me that's that's the vision I
sort of had. You all may be completely disagree with me and say, "No, that's not what it was supposed to be." In which case, that won't work anyway. Well, I appreciate you mentioning that again, Commissioner Britain, because I think you're right. We do just have to
decide whether or not it meets the requirements. >> Well, and we would still do that. >> We would still do that. >> Well, let's get to it. >> Giving a a um indication of what we would accept without having to go all the way to the PD.
So, all right. Any other comments? >> No, sir. >> Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone else in the audience wishes to speak to this item? Okay. Then I will close the public hearing, bring it back to the commission. My recommendation would be
if it's going to be denied, we come to a consensus of what we understood the it would look like. So if they want to do another development plan, staff knows what to do with it. And I think that condition should clearly indicate commercial on the first
floor, not a home occupation, which may or may not be used as an office. But is reconfiguring that space what you visualize as commercial or are
you saying the entire first floor must be only commercial? is too much up in the air. That's not how we should be doing this. I just >> this road is intended to be a commercial
front >> and I can't see that we can enforce that where it may or may not be used for commercial reasons with the living arrangement on the same floor in the same building. Okay.
>> Anybody comments from anybody else? Well, if you force the delineation uh the configuration, then then they have no choice but to use it that way. If we make them separate the commercial from
the living space, >> Patrick in the microphone here, >> it's hard it's harder to uh from your make sure you use a microphone. >> I know it would be difficult. Course
I mean the first floor could be nothing but a open commercial space and they could still use it not for commercial right >> but don't we control whatever we tell them we want them to come back with so they know what
>> that was my recommendation that we make it clear what it was or you know what is acceptable so that they don't have to do the entire PD Again, they can just submit another development plan. >> We have thousands of square feet of
forced commercial space in this city that's empty. >> Literally empty. We have other thousands of commercial space that can't get completed. We >> are thousands of square feet of
residential more than we need. The studies say we don't have enough. Um, this is this is a pigeon hole property right next to other residential right behind it.
Um, with uh some questionable retail space all around it. We thought the live work uh concept was a good idea. I believe this
is close to what we envisioned but uh I do feel it falls a little short. Um but uh we don't have a code that defines it and that that's kind of what we're doing
here is trying to define it. That's what we tried to do >> two years ago, three years ago, whatever it was. Um and so here we are again trying still to define that something that our code doesn't. Um,
and so people up here can criticize what we did back then, but we didn't have much guidance. >> I think I got the impression that you did the right thing, but you based on an assumption that's different from the assumption that the applicant made.
>> So we >> that's why we're here. We either need to go against staff and say that this did meet what we wanted um or or we need to say this doesn't meet what we wanted. I'm not sure I
agree with either one. I'm really torn. >> Well, I don't think it >> it doesn't >> it's not what I envisioned, >> right? >> But I don't want to throw the whole thing out. >> I think there's still it's still viable, >> right? And
>> um I see this as you know um an attorney or a um >> an accountant >> an accountant a bookkeeper >> who you know occasionally has a client come >> maybe a seamstress it's clearly a a separate commercial space
>> and as designed I don't see it as a a separate commercial space we tried to to come up with ideas to to do that but I think the only way to really do it is to redesign the space or say you got to go three stories in the first four. The whole thing has to be >> but I thought I understood a statement
that staff limited it to two stories. >> No. Okay. >> The true pure commercial is limited to two stories. >> Okay. >> The actual ordinance >> for this shows a three-story building and says first floor commercial or first
floor live work second and third floor residential. >> Luc, >> uh what did you say about ADA? Are we okay with this design from an ADA perspective? >> I can't determine that, but based on the fact that it's somebody's living room, I
don't know that it would meet. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Like I don't have that information. That's why I said it's it's ADA and fire requirements for separation between uses depending on the uses. We don't have any of that information. It's undefined because the spaces are not
specifically separated. And the only way to enforce that it will be a commercial space is to designate it. Even with the attempts in trying to reconfigure, there's no way to enforce that it would be used as a commercial space because you in your mind think
that by configuring it, no one would obviously not use that space for anything other than commercial. There's no way to enforce that. >> Oh, yeah, they would. I I fully understand that. No matter what we we say or how we configure it or
what sign we put on it, that does not mean a person's actually going to do what we intend them to do. And we're right a thousand examples a day of people not doing what I would expect them to do. >> Right. And so that's my point that unless you say with definitive that it
is to be a commercial space. There's no other way to enforce that. >> It's just like when we previously uh enforced you have to have garages. You have to have twocar garages. >> I have garage and there's no cars in my garage.
>> Guess what those are used. >> They're not garages. >> Yeah. Okay. So let's let's make a decision. either consensus on what we expect followed by a denial or just a denial and we'll leave them out there trying to figure out what to
do. >> Staff, did you have something to add? >> No, we were just talking about the power lines and the ements. Oh, that's all like the the design and the power line and the ements. We have other projects that we believe have parking in that easement, but >> yeah, the easement actually goes to
Duke. It's not Florida Power Light Power Corporation till the 80s. I think we've had some successful projects parking lot in those high fitted us.
They may want to really revisit that. It may help. >> Okay. >> Okay. So well the first question is is there agreement on what we expected and that a clear delineation of the
space so that you don't have to use the commercial space as part of your residential space i.e. walking through the kitchen or using the stairwell. If we see that separation of space,
is that what we meant? >> I would like to see that at a minimum. >> Okay. Is there a percentage of the downstairs that we had envisioned that should be the commercial space? >> I thought the whole downstairs was supposed to be the commercial space and
upstairs was supposed to be the residential. >> That's what you heard during >> That's what I heard. And I I thought that I heard the mayor ask additional questions just to make sure that's what it was when he was talking about it. And the facade looked different. So it looked more like it was commercial at
the bottom and residential at the top. So it kind of looked with like the walkable cities. >> And I'm not seeing that now. >> All right. And I think at some point during that hearing, I said the entire downstairs did not have to
be, but we didn't. That's not the part that was on the tape and that's not the part where we were. >> We we we did not say that it all had to be commercial. All right. Anybody else want to chime in? Okay.
So, it sounds like we do not have a 100% consensus on what we want. You can't >> Well, there was I was just going back to that piece that I don't think was in there.
>> Yeah, I recommend that only what has been presented and we go on. >> Okay. >> I was wondering where the voices >> you heard me talking. >> I was like, does she have a walk? Okay. Do we have an option to table it and come back with additional information?
Because it seems like we're both kind of up. Nobody actually knows what they want to do at this point. I'm stuck on what I thought I heard the the attorney tell us was beforehand. I still don't think that we should be doing configurations here
at the dis. we should say yes what we um what we would like to see but for us to give recommendations to the developer on how we figure out a bathroom or stairwell should be I don't think that that's the commission's um duty to do
that but is there another option attorney green for us to bring it back to the commission without it going to a denial at this this point >> I mean always continue but >> you You you do have the option. >> What additional information will we get?
>> You do have the option to continue. I would also offer and not that this is where the commission is going, but a denial does not end to the project. So a denial says that you deem that it is not consistent with what was presented and then the developer can go back to staff
because there's already discussions as to whether the easements um may result in the parking that's desired. they can go back to staff and present something that is in compliance with what that development order provides for staff.
Staff is unsure what the commission is seeking because what we have presented today is that we understood the first floor was to be the private garage for the town homes and the rest of it commercial with access to the upstairs units where the living occurs for a three-story building that was discussed
at the per first public hearing. So if that's not the direction then staff needs to know what to do because if they present anything other than that our response is going to be deny again because that is the way that we >> are
>> we have yeah we have to tell you what's acceptable as a difference from what you already >> as as a commission the direction we're moving on is the threetory building the requirement for commercial or a separate commercial entity up to such and such square footage. None of that is
occurring. Staff cannot approve the plans under the understanding of what we believe you approve the PD master plan to require. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's the discussion we're having in addition to just deny or not is figuring out what changes we can tell
you are acceptable. >> Right? So either you uphold the denial and require redevelopment um re PD master plan determination and say that's it come back with a new PD master plan. It's materially changed so
much that we can't move forward or uphold the denial and say that um this is what you expect. This is what was anticipated. This is what is going forward. 80% of the first floor a garage. You can have a residential
access to the upstairs. Whatever it is that staff is supposed to be reviewing for, we need to understand or you can say it has not materially changed and a full residential unit across the board. It's acceptable to the commission as well. Those are pretty much the three
choices. >> Okay. So, what so what do we want this to look like? >> If we're going to require a bathroom, are we going to do that
in every retail facility? And and we didn't do that in the mall. >> Commercial spaces require rest. >> There's a bunch of commercial, >> not in Well, the mall has restrooms, right? shared one, but not every business had a bathroom.
But there is one you could use. >> Okay. Well, maybe uh is there a clubhouse that has a bathroom that can be used? I don't know. >> All right. So pass the gavl.
>> Here you go, Vice. So I would move to uphold the denial would be understanding that the approved PD required clear delineation between commercial space and
residential space. That a that 50% of the downstairs or the the first floor should be dedicated commercial space.
>> Does that subtract the garage space or does that include >> not including not including garage space? So >> of the air conditioned space >> 50% of the air conditioned space must be dedicated to >> commercial >> something commercial >> and it has to be clearly defined and
separated. >> Yes. Would so that no residential access has to take place through the commercial space. >> You want to give a minimum square footage. >> No. >> Because each space might be
>> Yeah. Because the units are different sizes. two different proposals. >> Oh, >> it's an interior unit. >> I'm okay with 50%. Okay. Does that cover?
So, they can either do three stories or they can reconfigure the downstairs >> and bathroom in the commercial space or not in the commercial space. >> I would imagine there has to be the
examples that he had the other ones had delineated walls, separate doors into bathroom spaces within >> those were in the examples that were in his house. >> Okay. >> Is there a commercial facade?
>> There is a commercial facade with that's already included. I thought the well with commercial facade, commercial signage >> and then outdoor heating areas, anything like that or nothing to that because the original presentation showed that
I don't think that's required. worried about the rest of y'all. >> I mean, these aren't going to be cafet. >> Yeah, these aren't going to be cafes. >> Yeah. So, I don't think the outdoor seating is required, but um pedestrian
access and um and commercial parking included in the parking count >> in addition to the 1.5 per unit. >> And there wasn't any change real change
to the landscaping between the original and now I don't think we have a concern there. Well, the whole general layout is completely different because of the way they've configured for the power lines. It's no longer that triangular building on the side. It's two straight buildings
along >> see it out. >> Okay. >> The if you look in your your packet, there's two buildings on St. John's Parkway on the west that are now facing as opposed to that sort of unique
configuration with the amenities within. And now the amenities are pushed to Reinhardt Road and the two buildings are on the front. The configuration is completely different. So the landscaping will just have to meet city code. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right.
>> Mr. Alice, will that get us in the ballpark? >> That give us get us in the right direction. >> Yep. >> I You don't have to agree. Just >> Okay. All right. So,
Okay. All right. So, >> do you have a building mix of height? Three story, four story, two story. The fourstory and the four stories is okay >> for all four buildings. For all four
multif family buildings four story okay >> yeah the town hall >> I think because of the change in configuration that that's okay >> I'm just focusing on the
the live work units. >> Okay. So you want to read back what >> Okay. So what I have is to uphold the denial, maintain the approved PD,
provide clear delineation of the commercial space separated from the residential space with a minimum of 50% commercial on the ground floor, including a bathroom, commercial signage, commercial facade, and
pedestrian access, as well as commercial parking. in addition to the 1.5 per residential and then the fourstory is okay on the four buildings as configured in the current development plan design.
>> Okay. >> There that the bathroom is in the office the office space park >> right 50% commercial with a bathroom. >> Yeah, the bathroom would be included in the 50%. >> That works. >> Yeah. >> And you you referenced the parking, correct?
>> Right. There's commercial parking in addition to the 1.5 per residential unit. >> And it's and the percentage is based on air condition space, not garage. >> Okay. And now it's on recording, so I'll go after Miss Chann.
>> Okay. So that's my motion. >> Okay. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All for discussion. >> Discussion. >> Discussion. Yes, sir. >> I need clarification on the 50%
residential. I mean 50% commercial. So when you're saying on the first floor 50% is commercial, what's the other 50%. What what can go in there? >> Residential. >> Residential. >> But it's a minimum 50% commercial. So
depending on how they build it. >> So that does not include garage or anything like that. It is it can just be residential. 50% commercial, 50% residential. And we technically cannot we can't enforce that.
>> Well, if it's delineated and there's a dividing wall, I mean, you can't really enforce it, but if it's divided and the spaces are separate, using it as a living room space is a little bit more challenging than it is as an independent space. But no, you
could easily still use it as >> Okay. >> Are we still okay with the barn door concept? I think you that this clearly delineated means more like a wall like a wall separating not
>> the rolling barn door. >> Is that correct? We just need to on the on the record because we'll be listening back to this. >> Yeah. I don't think >> it should not be something you can open up at barn door and make it a big space. >> Right. So this right here is the floor
area. Taking out the garage on that ground floor. You're I mean that's the whole first floor. >> That's two units right there that you're looking at. >> So it's maybe five 600 feet total. And if you do half
of that, that's 300 square ft of space. I mean that's a 15 by 20 room. That's a slightly larger than, you know, a master bedroom that you're going to dedicate for commercial space. Is that sufficient commercial space >> to meet the intent of a mixeduse
development? >> I don't like it, guys, but I'm just one person. I just think that that's just too much conflict of residential and commercial being right next to each other. If it was just on the first floor and then residential on the second and third floor, um it makes sense, but
nope. Don't >> if we had second and third floors. >> I I don't like the residential and commercial being just divided by a small wall. I'm I'm really tiptoeing into your personal space. I don't like that. I
don't like that at all. But we're still we're just in discussion. But I got my clarification. Thank you. >> No discussion. All I >> Any opposed? >> Any opposed?
>> I didn't hear two of the people vote. is up. >> We're voting for the denial. >> Denial with the ex with the clarification of what we expected. >> I I
call I would call I would call the vote again. >> All right. Oh, I >> deny. >> I >> I pass three to two.
>> So So you were going to make a motion to approve it. >> I I'm You voted against >> Yeah. >> You would have no I don't like the conditions.
>> All right. Okay. So, that brings us to citizens participation of uh one request. Mr. Spore, >> evening
getting longer and longer, huh? Chase Sport 1219 Park. Uh I've been up here the last few weeks. Uh each time I've been outlined what would happen next as this process continued based on what I've seen and read in
Citizen Serve and what I've heard firsthand in these meetings. And recently that prediction became reality. Uh, I received the well-known orange work stop badge and notice for alleged uh unpermitted site work.
Make the face. Uh, code enforcement showed up while I was uh on site reviewing contractor bids. Uh, I also received a message expressing disappointment in my actions, going so as far as suggesting I was working over the weekend to avoid being seen.
Uh, but let's be clear about what really occurred. Uh the only work done was removing the fence line overgrowth in preparation for a pending fence permit and removing a section of concrete for the reclaimed water meter that had
already been approved by utilities and paid for in full. The fence permit itself was already in re-review with the only outstanding items for resubmission being the COA which had already been approved. There was no permit for removal of
concrete slab for the permitting department. So everything was in process. Everything was moving forward properly and the only areas necessary for these approvals were touched. So how did we end up with a work stop order exactly as they say it would?
Because this process seems to be fundamentally flawed. I went before planning and zoning, received unanimous approval despite the staff recommendations for denial, and then I was sent right back to the same staff who fought that approval. But I was
expected to assume I would now be treated fairly. That did not happen. I brought this concern to this commission and the solution was to send me back again, this time to meet with only that same staff with an addition of just
their attorney. This is not a balanced process. This is not neutral review and this is not due process. I want to run through the timeline one more time. In August, I was told fencing could be handled administratively as long as it was wood.
In February, I was told wood fencing was no longer historically appropriate, have instead encouraged to considered other options like ballards and change typically used for vacant property. Despite that, we proceeded in good
faith. By late February, I had partial approval of half a fence. By early March, my permit review came back with only one remaining item, the COA. By March 18th, I received that final COA despite a recommendation for denial by
staff with only a material condition change. By March 23rd, the COA was submitted. And at that point, with a known review timeline, I moved forward with contractor pricing, which required clearing overgrowth and exposing the meter location. Then on
March 30th, I received a stop work order. Now, according to code enforcement, the case was opened after an officer observed concrete removal. Here's the issue. The violation file was actually
opened in February, nearly two months earlier. shortly after I began began raising concerns publicly. And since then, nearly 200 photos have been uploaded to that file, including holidays. About every couple days, they buy the property, take pictures. So, I
have to ask, what happens when the same department interpreting the code is also driving the enforcement? What happens when a property becomes the focus of nearly two months of ongoing monitoring after speaking at this podium? Because from what I stand, the outcome
was predetermined, this didn't start with site work. It started when I challenged the process. And now, as we move into this final phase, I fully expect the same pattern we've already seen. Claims that we did not submit correctly, assumption that work is being
done without permits, questions about compliance regardless of documentation, and so now we wait. The resubmitt uh deadline is this Thursday. And based on how timelines have currently been interpreted and
handled, I guess we'll find out what happens 5:25 this Thursday. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Are we allowed to ask Mr. for a question or can't do that during citizens participation? >> You can ask, >> Mr. Spore. Um, have you been given a
certificate of occupancy yet? >> No, that would come after uh we finished the permits. >> Okay. So, I do want to say that we as a city, we are flawed. We're we're we're terribly flawed because whether you're
wrong or right, you have come to us and told us that you're working inside the building. You I remember you saying, you know, you're trying to do everything that you can possibly to work within, you know, the rules and everything. And maybe you were just, you know, rambling, but you said you came in, you're working
in the building just doing your regular office stuff there. That was a violation right there. and we didn't say or do anything to you. That shows that we're flawed on our part right there. I've seen so many issues when it comes to this property. I do not understand as
your representative what is going on. >> Mhm. >> I'm I'm I'm just going I'm going to say that we were completely wrong when you came here and said that you were working inside the building. A stop work order, some kind of signage, whatever should have been done the next day. I don't think anybody on this commission even
said anything because you clearly said that you were working inside the building. We are flawed. We are wrong and I apologize. What we have to do to get past this um at this point I'm not really sure. I will go back to the table and meet with the planning department
with code enforcement to figure out what's happening. But I'm at a total loss myself and I just wanted you to know that. >> I appreciate it. And what I said is I do my corporate job there. I'm there so often. I do take meetings when I'm there doing work of the building. So if it was
misconstrued that I'm set up there doing my corporate job as my work from home, which now is been redefined tonight, um that's not the case. But having to be there that often to take care of all the issues. I do take meetings as they come
in waiting for contractors in between. That was the intent of my statement. And as many times I'm up here and as frustrated as I am, it did come off that uh code enforcement said uh they thought I was working there and occupying the building. What am I going to do? Occupy
the building. There's no work to be done. There's no actual revenue to be made from working there. What I'm doing there is handling what needs to be done from a contractor bid and maintaining the bid building of any work that can be done without permits
that's allowable uh without a CL and that's all that's being done. >> Mr. Spore, please don't don't leave the the microphone because I'd like to clarify something. I met with Mr. Spore and the rest of staff. Um as far as having an attorney, you're always free to bring one. I never want to give you
the indication that you can't. I extended myself because I want to see this project seen through. During that meeting, you acknowledged that you were on site working. I sent an email to Mr. Spore within days of him coming before this board and stating that he was
working within the building to advise him that he was giving a complimentary warning not to do so. Okay? So that there would be no issues or concerns rather than simply have code enforcement go out there and issue a violation. I sent him that friendly reminder and also
met and discussed that. So, I just wanted to make sure that that was clear. >> Thank you, Attorney Green. >> Yeah, I think you said I better have nails in my mouth if I was on the property. I understand that conversation very well. >> Uh, it was misheard and I probably misspoke legally. Uh, but I was there
and every time I am there and you can even check I got a work log of everything I do every time I'm there because that's we follow the data. So, there's no occupying the building. So, we can exaggerate all we want and say I misspoke, but at the end of the day,
>> being told when you call who this violation, stop. >> Chase, stop the madness. Do you understand what certificate of occupancy means? >> Yeah, >> that means you're not supposed to be doing anything inside that building. >> You cannot have a building go into
disrepair per schedule S. You have to You can't even have moss grow on your building. How are you supposed to stop that? >> You said you are there working doing your other job that's occupying. >> I take phone calls there while I maintain the building and handle the contractors to keep this project alive
while I'm being bled out. That's all I'm doing. >> Mr. Bon Park, >> can you please schedule a meeting with Mr. Roundo, Mrs. Henson,
Mr. spore Mr. Combmes and try to find Oh, I'm sorry, Attorney Green. >> And try to find a path forward >> or done. I believe they have done that.
>> Nobody showed up. >> I know that. I know that. >> I just wanted to add what Mr. Spor also stated during that meeting is that the reason why he was present is because he was concerned about vandalism at night to which also in my email I extended
that we would be in contact with law enforcement with the police department and give him extra surveillance during the evening if in fact that was his concern. I have addressed every single concern that Mr. for has raised and made
it clear rather than just going, you know, let's go through code enforcement, explain to him what his rights and obligations are. >> I understand. I I would like to see this
move forward. >> We would all like to >> and I have asked for the same thing, Commissioner Austin, >> but it takes two sides to do the right thing. >> I completely agree. I asked Mr. Spore probably a year ago to meet with with uh
with our ombbudsman uh and and and try to help him get through the P&Z effort. He never did it. >> I met with Andy multiple times. >> So there has been some disconnects all along. The fingerpointing needs to stop.
We need to find a way forward or or not. >> Please. forward and I and I will make myself available for another meeting. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um
and Victoria Huggin asked that something be read. My name is Victoria Huggin, 2493 Orange Avenue. I would like to speak about the golf cart zone and specifically Melanville Avenue. A traffic study referenced by Cecil Smith indicated approximately 5,000 plus cars
travel in Melanville. Based on that number, it was determined the roads should not be included in the golf cart zone. However, I respectfully disagree with that conclusion. If you think of all the events held in this town, from the light up sampers I could go on on any given event, I would venture to say there are well over
8,000 plus cars on roads the golf carts are on all the time and safely. The reasoning presented by Chief Smith is not just accurate or fair to all the residents who need to use Melanville. I researched it. When Melanville was on the map from 2013 to 2019, there was not one zero golf cart accident on
Melanville during that time. Melanville is a 25 per mile hour neighborhood road all the way from 25th to Simol. Just like Park Avenue, Elma Avenue, Sanford Avenue, and Oak Avenue. All streets where golf carts already operate safely. Many of us live by Melanville. We know the traffic patterns, the neighborhoods,
and the daily conditions. Children ride their bicycles, families walk their dogs, and kids skateboard on Melanville every single day. It is part of our neighborhood life and it functions like the other streets already in the golf cart zone. Putting Melanville back into the golf cart zone would allow residents to safely access community events
including activities at historic Sanford Memorial Stadium Triplet Center as well as support our downtown businesses and gatherings. One, if Melanville is safe for our children on bicycles and skateboards every day, it should be safe for golf carts to drive on. Two, connectivity creates safety safety. And
right now, Melanville is a missing link in Sanford's golf cart map. Sanford has a strong and positive golf cart community. Golf cart consistently supports local businesses, city events, and community activities. Whenever organizations ask for help, we show up. We are proud of the royal the role we play in bringing people together and
supporting our city. What we are asking for tonight is simple for either the mayor or commissioner to make a motion to put Melonville back on the map and vote on it. Please do what is right and fix this once and for all. Sincerely, Victoria Hugging. >> Oh my god.
>> Great. and and I was pulling up old maps. I'm not sure Melonville from Celery to 25th was ever on the map. It just wasn't marked. Neither was 25th Street when the original map was made. So 25th Street clearly wasn't on the
map. So, >> okay, just wanted that clarification. >> I'm not I'm not going to go against our professional public safety uh official. Uh we we >> we have we have made tweaks. I fought for the crossover of 1792.
We paid for the DOT study. DOT said it was okay and we did it. But I'm not going to go against Chief Cecil Smith and his staff if they feel Melanville is not appropriate. There are plenty of
roads that are used. Golf carting is not a right in this city. It's a privilege. And a whole lot of this city doesn't get to use a golf cart. They don't have a golf cart zone at all. Where I used to live was not a golf cart
zone. Lake Mary Boulevard is not a golf cart zone. >> Right. >> Yeah. She raises some fair points, but I agree with you that the expert is the chief. >> Is there anyone else on the audience wish to speak to the commission?
Okay. Close public comment and go on to regular items. Um, a subreient agreement with Sanford airport is dy. Oh, that's why y'all been sitting here all this time. >> They're so patient.
>> The amendment to the comprehensive. >> Yes. >> And they didn't just leave George here alone. >> Yeah, we did. other items. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, the city staff is requesting
that the city of commission approve a subreient agree with the Sanford Airport Authority for the management and administration of a $1.6 $6 million grant fund awarded by the United States Department of Housing and Community Development to the Sanford H of H Airport Authority for the expansion and
reconfiguration of a master sewer water pond. >> Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass and answer.
>> Well, we should have made George speak. >> Do you have any comments, George? Nicole, would you like to say anything? You can read me. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Approve the procurement to San. >> Yes. Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is requesting that the commission approve the
procurement of phase one installation of a water main infrastructure and hydrants of sand for the Pine Way water main infrastructure project in the amount of 55 $558,725. >> Questions or motion? >> Second. Motion second. Any further
discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanly. Um increase purchase order 42154. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. M city commission. The city staff is requesting commission approval of the procurement and
subsequent purchase order number 42154 increase in amount not to exceed $1.5 million to samp construction for the sewer line reconstru rehabilitation under grant under the grant LPA0554. >> Move to approve.
>> Second. >> Um and so the reason we're increasing the purchase order is because we got the grant. >> Is that correct? Okay. Okay. >> And okay. >> Hallelujah. >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass nley.
Um, resolution 3472. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission. City staff is recommending the commission approve resolution number 3472 approving a loan repayment from the Mayfair Golf Course Fund to the general fund in the amount of 7,523,12629.
Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. Okay. My question about this one is in our very next item, we're being asked to earmark $3 million towards the golf course after we said
we're going to repay back the 7 million. Are we repaying the additional 3 million or are we just repaying? And I'm asking this as a >> as a policy decision for us. Wait, let me finish. So the the idea on the 7
million was to pay back the clubhouse, right? >> Okay. >> So now we're talking about putting other funds in. I think they want to do it for irrigation as well. Irrigation >> is that fund we're expecting that the city is putting towards the golf course >> to
>> historically the city has neglected the golf course. Well, >> but yet it has survived. >> The city has owned it its entire life. The city has neglected that golf course. Why the clubhouse
was irreparable and inop operable. >> When we finally decided to take it down and build a new one, >> it would be a shame to have that brand new clubhouse and a golf course that
can't be played because it's so far gone with no irrigation that we can't recover. irrigation out there is ancient and needs to be redone. >> I agree with that. >> And the whole idea of selling the surplus property was to get money. >> Okay.
>> To continue to fix up the golf course. >> All right. >> If you want the golf course to pay back the city for everything forever, then we need to do that with the parks. We need to do that with the civic center. We need to do that. >> Mr. Austin, because these two were right next to each other, I asked the question. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. I'm not proposing anything. I'm not arguing anything. I was asking the question. I am fully I'm the one that had to go in and start the initial conversation to try to get the golf course back. I am fully aware of the history of the golf
course. Okay? And I am fully support making sure it is a worldass um course. I was just asking the question since these were right next to each other and I figured it would come up. >> Yep. Okay, >> fair question. >> So, we have a motion and a second. All
in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Resolution 3474. >> Staff is requesting the commission approve resolution 3474 to amend the land donation agreement between the Central Florida Urban League and the
city and allow for a 24month extension. >> I'm sorry, I jumped the gun. We should be on 3473. Sorry. staff. Mr. Mayor, members of the city commission staff is requesting that the commission approve the declaration of the land surplus and approve a purchase
and land agreement of land of city- owned land located at 401 and 409 Placid Lake Drive and airmark these funds for improvements at the Mayfair Golf Course. >> Move to second. >> We had talked about requiring some Who
am I talking to? >> Mr. Radzac. um that we were going to make sure there was park space there. Are we holding back space for a city-owned park or is
it part of the agreement that the development will provide a park? >> I think the buyer's uh well aware of the desire for a park there, but it's not going to be a city-owned, I don't think. But I think there's going to be plans. I think he's going to reszone. I don't want to speak for the buyer, but I think
he has plans to reszone. So, as part of that PD process, you could require a park. >> You want >> Yeah. >> Zach Miller, 8241 via Bonita. We intend do not intend to actually resone reszone
because it's already MR3 which would allow town homes, but we're going to come back with single families. But that's not what we're here to discuss. I understand you want to hear the park. My intention was to get the development done and then dedicate the park back to you guys. >> Is that not what you wanted? >> No, that's fine.
>> Okay. That's that's the way I understood it. >> Is that a requirement of the of the sale? >> No. >> No, it is. >> But you but you'll but the development will come back before you and then you'll say here's my here's my plan for the park.
>> Where are we going to put a park there? There was >> Well, there's I'm I'm buying it in addition to the 16 acres behind me. >> So, it's 32 acres >> there. >> Yeah. We're not putting a park right up next to the cemetery. >> No. No. >> Close.
>> The space we talked about was right out of woods off to the left. >> Closer to Lake Reservoir, wasn't it? >> Well, either close There's two places we've talked about is close maybe closer to the Reservoir Lake or closer like you said just as you come in just to the left. Oh, yeah. >> Because it narrows down >> now that you have the other property. I
understand that. >> Say that again. >> I didn't know you were buying the other property. >> Can we make that a condition? >> Yeah, we can do a memorandum of understanding, >> but it won't the acquisition will happen. Well, now you'll see the development plan before then. I'm not sure how you police the parks other
than, like I said, I'm planning on giving you guys a park when it's all said and done. And that'll be part Well, Eileen's gone, but she'll be able to review that to see that we're doing a park getting that confirmed. >> Okay. All right. I think Eileen has something to say.
>> She's not completely gone. >> She's not gone. >> She's partially gone after today. >> I thought he meant you were retiring. >> Not yet. >> No, Eileen cannot retire. Um, no, I am not gone. I just wanted to make sure that I am still here. You will have to
resone. You will have to resone because even though it's MR3 and you're doing single family, single family cannot be constructed. you will not want to construct single family to the minimum standards required in the market. So you're going to have to res >> I mean we can that's not a discussion
for here, right? No. So we can talk that free app, >> right? So that moving forward would be an avenue for >> to get the dedication of the park. >> Right. >> Okay. >> One way or the other I'm going to dedicate. >> Okay. >> We are approving.
>> Thank you. E second in front of us. >> Okay. >> All right. We had a motion, a second. All in favor? >> Any opposed? Anley. >> Now resolution 3474.
>> Yes. Mr. The mayor, members of city commission, staff is recommending commission approve resolution 3474 to amend the land donation agreement provided in the resolution 2023 3105 and thus approving a 24 extension for the central Florida Urban League to
construct a building and it will go they have until May 8th of 2026. >> Move to approve. >> Second question. Any further discussion? All in favor? I >> any opposed pass unanimously. Resolution 3475.
>> Yes, Mr. Mayor Pission. The merit city staff is requesting commission approval of resolution 3475 amending the classification pay plan. This request is to reclassify one full-time equivalent utility support service manager position in public works utilities department to
one temporary fulltime equivalent senior engineer position in the public works department. There's no fiscal impact and the purpose is to allow for someone to shadow the retiring utility engineering manager. >> Questions or motion?
>> Move to approve. >> Second. Motion second. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Anley. Resolution 3476. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission. City staff is requesting commission approval of a budget amendment resolution 3476 relating to
the Fort Milan Park amphitheater project for changes to the engineering design structure and installation of a 40ft by 30 foot constellation to accommodate the audio visual and lighting on from the community redevelopment ay's budget reserves to the city budget in the
amount of $23,340. >> Move to approve. >> Second. Second. All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Pass unanimously. Resolution 3477. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. City Comm City
Commission. The city staff is requesting the commission approved resolution 3477 to amend the budget amount of $6,500 for the procurement of smoke detectors, safety equipment, and fire safety information flyers. >> Move to approve. Second.
>> Any further discussion? All in favor? I >> opposed. Pass unanimously. Resolution 3478. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor, members of city commission, city staff is recommending city commission approve resolution 3478 to amend the budget in the amount not to exceed $300,000 and authorized
procurement to services as a budget tree service for citywide tree trimming and mitigation. Questions or motion? >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Passion Nley.
>> Did we go over the Urban League? Did we vote on that? >> We missed that. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I didn't know we did that. >> We did. >> City attorney comments. >> I just wanted to make you mayor and city commissioners aware that they're under
section 70.51 Florida statutes. If a developer receives a development order that believe infringes on some right of theirs, um they can institute special magistrate proceedings in order to try and reach a resolution. Um there's also
a mediation component. If it's not resolved in that consiliatory process, then the developer has the ability to seek an appeal through the circuit court. With regard to the properties at 809 and 817 Locust, those were the properties in the Georgetown area that
were built to grade the and the denial order was entered. The land owners have asked for uh to go through those special magistrate proceedings. I have a meeting with the attorneys tomorrow to see if there is some way to resolve that issue. That process has also been uh initiated
with regard to the 7-Eleven. Uh we just received the letter a couple of days ago that they are seeking to go through that proceeding that is set forth in 7.51 to see if there and and what happens through that process is both parties appoint a special magistrate. That
special magistrate will then hold a mediation to see if there's a way to resolve it. If it's not resolved at mediation, then the special magistrate holds proceedings to give recommendations or suggestions as to how to resolve it. If it is not resolved at
that point, then the developer can seek an appeal through the appellet process. The whole reason why Florida has this process is to see if matters can be resolved prior to legal action being pursued. So, those are the two matters that are pending and I'm working on
those. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Um, city clerk. >> Um, we have a few boards that we have folks that have given resignations. So, I'm going to be looking for, um, we have
two on PNZ. Um, Victoria Wilson and Mr. Fona have given notice and I have gotten verbal communication from um, the records keeper of uh, the minutes for
fact that Miss Williams no longer wishes to serve on the public art commission, but I haven't officially received a resignation. So, it's possible that that's coming as well. And then Miss Britain will have a CDBG appointment at the next meeting.
>> Um, Commissioner Austin still have one. >> Yeah, I'm I was supposed to do that a meeting ago, I think. What was the gentleman's name? P. He's a pastor.
>> Oh, Mr. uh Lys. >> Do I have an application? >> Yes. >> Yeah, he came before. >> Yep. He's been on the board before. Duncan. Samuel Duncan. >> Samuel Duncan. >> Look at you, Mayor. >> I moved I move to uh
>> for CDBG. >> Yes. Yeah. I move to uh appoint uh Samuel Duncan to CVBG. >> Second. >> Is there a second? >> Oh, okay. All in favor? >> I. Any opposed?
>> Questionly. So, we have two PNZs. >> Yes. >> And one more CDBG. >> One more CDBG >> and possibly pack. >> Okay. Anything else? the manager's report.
>> Nothing this evening. >> Okay. Um I'm gonna do a couple things first, but I lost my There it is. Um I had suggested at our March 28th
meeting um that I would ask for somebody make a motion to rename the welcome center um in honor of former mayor Linda Cune. Um, am I willing to do that? >> I object. >> Sorry.
>> I object to that. I thought, mayor, that it was going to go on the agenda. Um, when you brought it to us, that way the people of the community know. I I I just have a question of why why did it change for you? because I remember when I asked
for Commissioner Mahaney to maybe have a conference room named after her after all that she had given to the city of Sanford, uh the employees um spending her own money year after year and she had been on the commission for more than a decade. You said that you were
completely against it when Commissioner Austin was um trying to get the Jeff Triplet Center. You were against it then, but that was brought. You said it verbatim. You said I'm because I asked the question when I asked about Patty
and you said, "Well, instead of that, she can do you wanted to do something with the art commission." And I said, "But we named the Jeff Triplet Center after um Mayor Triplet." And you said, "Well, I was against that as well." You said it on the record. You did. So I and
and you have said it several times that you are against naming buildings. So I just wanted to know what changed and if you want to do that in honor of the former mayor then it should be an agenda item. That way the people of Sanford
especially because it's going in district 1. There there won't be any confusion. There won't be anyone saying that that's just a friend or what have you. I just I thought that it would just be on the agenda and not just a part of the commissioner report. >> Yes, it was. The naming of uh something
has never been on >> agenda >> an agenda. Okay. >> And actually, as far as my time, it's never been brought up to the commission before the motion was made. So, >> so my recommendation is is it just
because it hasn't been done, it should be done because it's a public building because you said that you did not agree with it before and a plaque was more fitting then a plaque could still be fitting now. However, if you would like to do that, then I just suggest because
we've had to change street names back because of issues while I was here on the dis. If a building is going to be named after someone, especially when I asked for at least a conference room to be named after a commissioner and you said that you were completely against
it, then maybe it should go as an agenda item. If there is no objection to it, then by all means, in honor of the former mayor because of what you shared with us at the um the previous meeting, I don't object, but I really thought
that it would be somewhere on the consent agenda or something to be made public. Now, it's on the commission to make a a motion, but that's just my two cents. I move to name the welcome center the Linder Keen Welcome Center. Is
>> there a second? >> A second. >> Any further? >> Uh just whether or not there might be some precedent to doing something like an agenda item for this in the future. >> I don't have a problem with that.
>> I always had a problem with it being brought up with no discussion or no knowledge in advance. That's why I specifically brought it up at that work session >> so that it was would not be a surprise. Um,
you know, I remember the very I think >> my very first meeting I think the almost one of the first motions was to name the um swimming pool after Mayor Dale. Um the
>> so this has been consistent as far as how >> you know the naming of the triplet center was just a motion made that night. There had been no knowledge of it before. I mean I >> So we don't know about other >> No, it was it was it was conversation
before because I remember asking Commissioner Austin what because I was not privy to the health issues. So I remember saying well what is the big deal? We can just wait on it. And so we had discussed it prior to that and then the then we actually had another another
meeting to talk about the signage and what would do what would be what versus Jeff Triplet and Tim Reigns. We we had multiple conversations and I remember you saying no >> no we had discussions about the sign but anyway we have a motion on the
floor. All in favor? >> I any opposed? Pass unanimously. Thank you. Um, and I'll wait on the rest of the items. Commissioner Britain. >> Um, so although the Lake Monroe flows
into the St. John's River that flows north to Jacksonville, the Jacksonville Jaguars will not be playing here, practicing here, um, downtown Sanford. Um, it was, I believe, an April Fool's
thing. Um, the only reason I'm bringing it before the commission and making it public is because I was tagged in it. It was forwarded to me and even before this very commission meeting. Um, one of my constituents asked me about it just to make sure. So, I want it to be known
that we appreciate a very good joke, but the Jaguars will not be playing uh will not be practicing in our beautiful downtown Sanford. Um, please remember that the um, garden tour is this weekend and let's all remember to support local.
Um, the guild does a great job with that and um, I will be attending the FBC LEO conference this week and I'll be sure to bring back a report. And that concludes the District 1 report. >> Commissioner Wiggins, next Thursday I'll be having my community meeting at
Westside uh, 6 PM. Uh, I'll be in the multi-purpose room as always, but over in the gym, Mr. Henderson's going to have uh Department of Juvenile Justice there with the GA a gap event. Uh, all are welcome. And the gap event is going to uh have law enforcement, our very own
uh SPD as well as the sheriff department. And it's bridge the gap between youth, adults, and law enforcement. And that's going to start at 6 as well. So, um, please spread the word. They'll be both running at the same time. food giveaway be that Friday
at the Mother Ruby Wilson Park at 3 PM and then that Saturday the 25th. I know majority of you men have already signed up. If you haven't, um it's still room. You can go on the city website, uh Mr.
Henderson's website, the boys to men social. It's going to be at 6 pm. Um last year we had about 170 something elementary boys to grown men there. So, I know some of you guys are signed up. You can go to the page and sign up. You can't bring your wife with you, but you
can come as well, brother. All right. You got me, man. All right, that's it. Commissioner Austin, um, if y'all remember uh a few months ago, I asked uh the city to sponsor the rescue outreach mission
fundraiser at the airport on the 24th. Uh, I've been notified due to our sponsorship, we have some tickets to the event. If anyone is interested, uh, let me know and I will send you the link. Otherwise, I'll be sending it to Norton to share with, uh, staff.
>> I'd like to go. >> All right. Okay. >> It's the 24th. >> This month, >> that's why we planned it. >> Damn it. This >> I thought it was the same night as your thing, but it's not. 24 >> 24.
>> Um, second of all, I would like and and I'm not going to be too specific on how this is accomplished, but I would like a public discussion and maybe a work session. Well, obviously probably a work session. I want to know the status of
the project in front of Windixie. The project with the multiple projects downtown Sanford here that are started and not completed. Um,
and there's another one, but I'll just start with those three. I would like a workshop discussion on why those are stalled. I don't want any point finger pointing. I don't want any blame game. I just want
the facts of why we can't get these projects across the finish line and what we are doing to do that. >> 901 Park was on the list, but they're off for now. Um but the uh the uh
proposed Greek restaurant in front of Wind Dixie is started and installed. Um we we know about the Mark Nation project started and stopped. Um and we know about the Palmetto uh started and stopped.
Um and I I don't care about the fingerpointing. I don't I don't want the blame game. I just want the facts discussed of where we're at and what we are doing to try to accomplish these
projects from the city side. >> The three projects I have the one at Wind Dixie in front of Wind Dixie, the Mark Nation, and the Palmetto Avenue. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> And are there any I'm I'm forgetting about in any other districts. Please speak up.
>> Uh the um McGee construction on the on the corner of first and the Pali building workspace collective.
>> That's not the building. >> The next to park next to the park. >> Okay. The workspace collective on First Street. Is that a good enough description? >> I I remember that now. Thank you.
Anybody? Anything else? We're not going to discuss them all. We know the mulch, so don't mention it. Don't Don't >> not this, >> but we're getting indoor pickle ball facility. >> I saw that, man. >> Is that exciting? >> All right. Um, and then the other thing
is I believe everybody got this email, but I'm going to be the one to lead the cause like I was last year. Odyssey of the Mind team from Hamilton Elementary has qualified for Haha. Has qualified for the World Championships again.
They're in the fundraising mode. >> You're behind already. >> No, you didn't. >> Yes, I did. >> Without our approval? >> Yep. >> You said personal. >> All right. Well, you're rich. No, I'm glad you raised that because
anyway, I would like to designate $1,000 of my >> second >> funds. Miss Lindsay, I think I still have that much. >> You don't want to do $1,000 of Commissioner >> Well, no, hold on. $1,000 of my funds,
67,000 of Commissioner Wiggins funds. >> No, but I but I do I want to get 500. >> Okay. >> Okay. And based upon a public purpose publicing education and youth. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I'm going with five. >> I still got about 7,000.
>> Okay. You It's crazy. I would also It's in district one. Would like to contribute $500 for a public purpose for the Odyssey. >> Thank you, >> Commissioner Thomas. >> I'm just waiting for you to be done. >> And another 500 >> motion.
>> And another 500 from district. And >> another >> for a public purpose. Man, this is a good night. >> I was frustrated. Now I'm not. >> Yes. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I
>> And for the public, uh they did really well last year. >> Yes, they did. >> And uh and and almost almost won more. So, >> uh I I >> And this is nothing to sneeze at. Yeah, this is a big deal. It's it's a really it's a really cool event uh where you
have to use your mind and some science and some art and uh it's really neat. >> It's amazing. Amazing. And DSK Law will contribute $500. >> Oh, wow. >> Well, well, thank you. There you go. >> Thumbs up for that. Right, girl.
>> There we go. How about How about grandma in the back? All right. Anything else? I have no idea. >> Sorry. >> Oh, is that where they're doing a fundraiser? >> Okay. Ford's Garage.
>> Okay. >> Thursday night, Ford's Garage fundraiser for Hamilton Elementary Odyssey. The mine. Be there. Be or be square. >> Be there and have that model A. I heard that's a good verb. >> Okay. >> Anything else? Commissioner Thomas. Um,
I I got my formal invitation to the Florida League of Cities leadership class and that is for those who've done one and two. So, this is the next phase of that. >> I've already done it.
>> He's already done it. So, May 14th and 15th in Orlando. So, I can drive to it. Uh, FYI, unless anybody has any issues with that, I'd like to go. I'm telling you, I'm going >> 23. We'll do our usual. Uh, well,
Hamilton Odyssey of the mind. You stole my thunder there. Um, thank you to Nikki and Tiara for a wonderful Goldsboro beautifification project. >> That was I mean, it's just so rewarding to just get your hands in the dirt and feel like you're making a difference.
So, kudos to both of you. >> She's still here wherever she is. >> Sorry I couldn't make you. Uh, that's it for me. >> I mentioned gold. Would you do that? So, I only have one left. Um, I've been talking to um
Julie about the doing grants for the civic center, historic preservation grants. Um, we think it would be wise to um do the National Register application for the civic center. Um, so I'd like to move forward with that.
I don't know if that requires a vote or just um a consensus. Um it basically just, you know, when you're doing a historic preservation grant, it looks a lot better if your building is on the national register. >> Um we could also consider making it a
local historic landmark. >> It's not already. >> No, I don't believe it is. >> We'll have to check. I thought you said when Grant was president. That's a long time ago. >> I thought so, too.
>> Yeah, we'll double check. >> Okay, we'll double check. >> Now, let's that does not put any protections on that building. >> Only if federal money is involved. >> Okay. >> Federal money is involved. You have to
um go through some extra steps before you >> do something. So, it's Yes, it's certainly not the strong protection people think it is, >> right? Well, I learned that when I tried to do put it on the Mayfair years ago >> when we knew these issues were coming.
Um, >> okay. So, consensus to do that? >> Yes, do that. Okay. >> Oh, yes. >> Consensus should be >> consensus will be fine because you're just applying, correct? Right. >> Just Yeah, consensus appropriate as long as the minutes reflect that.
>> Okay. Um and with that we are ajourned. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Oh my gosh. >> Good night again. Adios for a walk. I'll be
listening to him and