it's 7:30 if you could all please stand to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it stands one nation God divisible thank you evening i'd like to call this order of
the per bureau of servable planning board meeting of April 16 2025 beth has this meeting been advertised accordance with the open public meeting act yes chairman it has all right do we have any memorializations of the resolutions we
need to do a roll call mr candell Miss Lurman here mr muller here mr shaw here miss Sataka here mr veosen here mr williams councilman Zabrowski here chairman Tai here we have a quorum thank
you memorialization of resolutions we don't have any we have one this evening main Street One LLC and Main Street 2 LLC approval time extension for Main Street Saraveville block 249 lot one block 250 lot one block 251 lot one may
I get a motion we need a motion on that make a motion to approve do I have a second second anybody opposed we'll do a roll call uh Mr mr shaw yes miss Sataka yes
mr velo yes councilman Zowski yes chairman Tai yes thank you acceptance of the minutes of last month meeting no there is no minutes this uh meeting communication agenda none this evening all right site plan and subdivision hearing this evening we have Mazip Sedar
Community Center House of Worship Preliminary and Final Major site plan 212 to 216 Ernston Road Saraveville block 444.04 lots 23 24 25 and 28 mr saxs the
floor is yours thank you Mr chairman good evening members of the board uh Lawrence Saxs on behalf of the applicant uh Mashed Sedar Community Center um we were last here six months ago we were here in October
of 2024 uh and after that meeting uh we decided that we needed to make a number of revisions to this plan uh which we have accomplished and we're going to go
through them this evening um but I believe it was from some of the input from this board members of the board and from the members of the public that resulted in these revisions coming to fruition so Mr mr chairman what I'd like to do is just briefly talk about
the specific revisions that that were made uh and also certain conditions uh that the applicant is willing to have incorporated uh into any resolution if this board acts favorably on this application but let me talk about the
first one uh the first uh and major uh revision that we made was that if the board will recall the original occupancy of this building for uh for prayer purposes uh was 455
uh worshippers 454 worshippers uh we reduced it by approximately 30% and now we have an occupancy of 321 uh in the gent prayer hall and the ladies prayer hall total so a total of
321 and how we how we accomplished that was by obviously reducing the occupancy but also providing a plan uh which you have which shows that specific prayer mats will be placed in a specific location there will be aisles all right
which really makes the most sense because as as this board is aware and as uh everyone is pretty much aware uh there are no seats in this particular facility uh mosques do not have seats they have prayer mats so we've delineated the 321 prayer mats uh which
will occupy the uh gent's hall and the ladies hall in total um as a result we also eliminated the stacked parking system uh in the garage and how we were able to do that is that based upon the reduction in
occupancy we determined that we no longer needed that stacked parking system so we do not have a stacked parking system there will be no valet parking uh your ordinance requires us to have 107 parking spaces to accommodate
those 321 prayer mats and that's what we're providing so uh based on that we decided that we did not need that stacked parking system uh which was somewhat problematic I believe in theory and in terms of clearing out the building
we also were able to secure additional off-site parking for 22 parking spaces uh within walking distance uh of this facility so those additional 22 parking spaces are available for us um we agreed
to restrict all activities uh on site when prayer services are occurring so for instance there'll be no utilization of the basketball court there'll be no utilization of the exercise room uh the classrooms will not
be used uh so all of the other ancillary uses uh to this house of worship will not occur while prayer services are going on we've also agreed to uh have police uh monitoring of this site on Friday
afternoons we have two services on Friday uh the Serville police will be directing traffic and monitoring traffic on all Friday afternoon uh events also during any special events where the need
requires there to be police and also during Ramadan one of the requests of the board uh back in one of the earlier meetings was to provide specific square footage as to each room uh in the in the facility we've done that you'll you have
revised architectural plans uh that uh that delineate that we also provided you with a chart which shows the occupancy uh during various times of the day uh every day of the week all se seven days of the
week we also provided an operations manual all right we call it a day in the life of a masid uh we we will agree that all of the references in that operations manual uh can be incorporated into a
resolution of approval if the board acts favorably on this application and finally we have also provided uh a calendar what we decided was that it was best to provide
a a quarterly calendar showing uh what time the prayers are during the middle of the first quarter of the year the middle of the second quarter of the year the middle of the third quarter of the year and the middle of the fourth quarter of the year and that will
demonstrate what the approximate start times of these five prayer services will occur uh during that during those particular times uh so we we have it for February 15th we have it for May 15th we have it for August 15th and we have it
for November 15th so I think that provides a very accurate uh depiction of when these prayer services will commence and when they will end so I think with that said Mr chairman I've covered all of the um all of the
revisions to the plans uh what I would like to do is briefly go through the uh day in the life operations manual which I I assisted in the preparation of and just give some of the highlights of that
just so the board and the public are aware so let's first talk about the activities for the prayer services which will occur February 15th in terms of timing all right so there are five prayer services uh the first one being
the dawn prayer the second one being the midday prayer the third being the afternoon prayer the fourth being the sunset prayer and the fifth being the nighttime prayer so let me give you the times for the prayers on February 15th
as an example the dorm prayer will start at 6:15 a.m and will end at 6:30 p.m the midday prayer will begin at 1:30 p.m and will end at 1:45 p.m the afternoon prayer will begin at 4:15 p.m
and will end at 4:30 p.m the sunset prayer will begin at 5:40 p.m and will end at 5:55 p.m and the uh nighttime prayer will begin at 8:00 and will end at 8:15 p.m as you'll notice the blocks
are 15minute blocks that's how long these prayer services uh will take may 15th which would be the middle of the second quarter let me give you the times for that the dawn prayer would begin at 5:00 a.m and end at 5:15 p.m
the midday prayer would begin at 1:30 p.m and end at 1:45 p.m the afternoon prayer would begin at 6:15 p.m and end at 6:30 p.m the sunset prayer would
begin at 8:17 p.m and end at 8:32 p.m and the nighttime prayer would begin at 1000 p.m and end at 10:15 p.m i'll now give you the third quarter which would be August 15th and as you can see a lot
of these times are b not a lot of them the the more the early prayer and the late prayer the sunset prayer are really based on on the sunset and sunrise all right so for August 15th the uh dawn prayer would begin at
5:30 a.m and end at 5:45 a.m the midday prayer 1:30 p.m and to 1:45 p.m the afternoon prayer from 1:15 p.m to 6:30 p.m uh the sunset prayer 8:05 p.m to
9 I'm sorry 8 8:55 p.m to 9 9:15 p.m and the nighttime prayer 9:30 p.m to 9:45 p.m and then finally for the November 15th uh
calendar the dawn prayer would begin at 6:00 a.m and end at 6:15 a.m the midday prayer 1:30 to 1:45 p.m the afternoon prayer 3:15 p.m to 3:30 p.m the sunset prayer from
6:08 p.m to 6:23 p.m and the nighttime prayer from 8:00 p.m to 8:15 p.m now we also provided in that operations manual what we believe the average attendance would be at the various prayers and let
me give you those numbers so for the dawn prayer we anticipate 35 attendees for the midday prayer 20 attendees by the way the midday prayer that I've been referring to does not include the Friday afternoon prayer but it would just be
every other day of the week uh the afternoon prayer 20 attendees the sunset prayer 35 attendees and the nighttime prayer uh 45 attendees right so those are the various
calendar events that I think were necessary to be provided to this board so that you could have a flavor of when activities would occur all right now as part of our operations manual we also provided information about the Friday prayers
there are two of them we we anticipate that the first service which is usually the most well attended uh Friday prayer uh would have a total of 190 attendees and that would include both men and women and by the way for the prayers
that I just indicated that would also include men and women in terms of the total and for the second service um it would be 80 attendees so obviously the first service is is the more well attended the second service would be the
uh lesser attended um there is going to be sufficient time between the two prayers uh for us to clear the parking parking lot it's going to be approximately 45 minutes that was an issue with the stacked parking system with the valet there was a big concern
about how quickly uh would people be able to leave but without having the stack system the vehicles in the garage will be able to obviously exit there'll be police assistance there to make sure that that's done in an efficient and expeditious manner and we anticipate no
issues whatsoever uh with the parking lot clearing on the Friday prayer uh after the first service all right let me talk about some of the other um issues that are contained in this uh in this operations
manual um information was requested about the use of the multi-purpose hall and you'll notice in the operations manual that the multi-purpose hall will only be used for life cycle events and life cycle events
are really generic to any religion those life cycle events would be the celebration of a birth a wedding and a funeral those will only occur on Fridays Saturdays and Sundays they will not occur during the week um and um
obviously uh they would also occur in the afternoon and early evening uh so as not to conflict with uh with any other uh traffic times that we'd be concerned with we're sympathetic to the fact that schools empty out at a certain hour so we can we can accommodate that in terms
of scheduling information was also and by the way in terms of the number of attendees that would be at a multi-purpose hall function we anticipate that it would be probably no more than 80 u probably less than that but we wanted to be on the uh on the
comfortable side to give you that information um we also spoke about the basketball court in the operations manual that will be limited to sporting activities and as I stated in the beginning the basketball
court will only be used during non-p prayer times uh and we have specific hours for that it would be Monday through Friday 5:00 pm to 10 p.m saturday from 9:00 a.m to 10:30 a.m and
then again from 5:00 p.m to 9:30 p.m and on Sundays from 10:00 a.m to 11:30 a.m and from 4:00 p.m to 7:00 p.m so we have limited hours with respect to the utilization of the basketball court we
also anticipate that no more than 30 attendees would be there at any given time we also provided you information regarding the exercise areas there are two exercise areas one for the men's and one for the ladies again those will also
only be utilized during non-p prayer times and we also have specific hours for that that would be Monday through Friday from 5:00 p.m to 10:00 p.m saturday from 9 to 10:30 9:00 a.m to
10:30 a.m and from 5:00 p.m to 9:30 p.m and on Sundays from 10:00 a.m to 11:30 a.m and from 4:00 p.m to 7:00 p.m basically the same hours as the uh as the basketball court and again we also
anticipate that no more than 30 attendees would be utilizing those facilities we also provided you information in the operations manual regarding the youth activity hall for both boys and girls again those will
also only be utilized during non-p prayer times and the usage of those rooms will be for arts and crafts activities and other uh youth activities the hour the utilization of those rooms will only
occur on Friday Saturday and Sunday um and we haven't really specified the times on that but we don't anticipate great usage of that uh but again it will not it will be during non-p prayer times and we anticipate maybe 15 attendees in
in both the boys activity hall and the girls activity hall uh we also have seven classrooms i think request at the last hearing was when when are these classrooms going to be used first of all they'll only be used for educational
activities uh for the youth and also for women's Quran classes and again they will only be utilized during nonp prayer times and the that will be on Saturday and Sunday only from 10:00 a.m to 12:40
uh p.m um and we anticipate no more than uh 10 children in each classroom and maybe 10 women when it's a woman's uh Quran class we have some other ancillary uses on this property we have two offices um
office number one which is a management office again the only time that will be staffed is during non-p prayer times and office number two which is a supervisor's office as well will also be during non-p prayer times we anticipate
having two employees uh who will staff uh those offices we also in the operations manual um have a cafeteria uh and again that will only be used for uh dining preparation for special events
all right wanted to be clear that uh for regular services there is no food uh that is served uh and that would include even the Friday uh afternoon services all right we also made reference in the operations manual as to
the major holiday uh which is eyed alfitter and eyed alada those are two separate holidays all of those activities and we've said this from the outset all occur offsite at the
burough school so those are the major holidays and none of the activities will occur on this site um they will all occur offsite for Ramadan um and Ramadan does span a month
all right it's usually 28 to 29 days uh Ramadan is also in the evening and we've indicated in the report that that will be from generally from 8:00 p.m to 10 p.m and that we will limit the occupancy
in our facility to 321 um if it turns out that we have overflow uh we have the use of uh of the Samell Upper Elementary School uh which they presently utilize now and they would
continue to utilize that uh in the future for parking um we anticipate that the attendance for Ramadan is similar to the attendance for Friday afternoon prayers um the difference on Ramadan and I think it's been referenced in the
operations manual is that whereas on a Friday afternoon service some people will come in their own individual car of course we we know that people will come multiple attendees in one car but for Ramadan it's usually a family that will be attending because it's in the evening
uh and it doesn't conflict with work and you know that could be four occupants per car but we're going to get into the traffic testimony and show how we support the parking uh all right and in terms of parking we
also indicated in our operations manual that based on the 321 prayer mats um we're we need to provide 107 parking spaces and how do we come to that well for a house of worship your requirement
is uh one parking space for every three seats we're utilizing the same uh the same ratio here with the prayer mats so for every for 321 prayer mats we need to divide that by three we come up with 107
parking spaces uh for the basketball court and the exercise room uh we need 4.5 parking spaces for every,000 square ft and for all the other uses um we need one space for every 250 ft that would
include uh the um the cafeteria the multi-purpose room and um and the classrooms so in summary I think we have provided a fairly uh comprehensive
operations manual to you um what we also did is we also provided a chart to you which I believe is part of the submission and shows the occupancy and I don't know if that's
going to go up on the screen if we can abraham is uh okay all right well if not let me I know the board has it but for the for members of the public well okay it might be hard
to read so I'm going to I'm going to indicate what it is all right I know the board has it but I I want the members of the public to understand uh what the maximum utilization of this site would be so for instance on a Sunday um
we know that the maximum uh occupancy of this building utilizing the basketball court the exercise area the classrooms and the youth activity rooms and the office um would trigger 95 parking
spaces all right that's on a Sunday um and that would be uh in the morning in the afternoon that drops down to uh 76 parking spaces uh because we don't have the classrooms in use those are only
going to be in the morning um and then again uh on Monday all right we have very limited occupancy the maximum occupancy on a Monday is roughly uh 45 parking spaces
and that would be during uh the times that the basketball court is open which would be during non-p prayer times so the balance of Monday uh would only trigger between 23 and 13 parking spaces based upon the
limited activities that occur on a Monday so the primary activity that's going to occur on a Monday uh is going to be the utilization of the ancillary activities the basketball court the exercise areas etc on a Tuesday we have the same
numbers again the maximum number of parking spaces would be for the utilization of the um basketball court and the exercise facilities and that again triggers an occ a a parking uh demand of around 45 parking
spaces uh Wednesday same scenario thursday same scenario let's get to Friday because Friday is our is the critical day all right we have anticipated that
based on the 321 uh prayer mats we we are required to have 107 parking spaces we anticipate that we will be utilizing those 107 parking spaces however the difference is we're going to be utilizing them on two
separate prayer services so 190 if it's the first service equates to roughly 63 parking spaces being utilized and for the second service if it's approximately 80 it would be um uh uh
27 or so all right so again we have 107 available parking spaces but again we don't anticipate that all of them will be used up during the first service and we certainly don't anticipate that they will be all used up during the second service in fact we have an abundance of
parking to cover the Friday afternoon prayer um we also anticipate that in the evening on Friday evenings we with the ba with the uh basketball facility being used um and the exercise
facilities being used uh we could run into a situation where we would need 90 parking spaces but again we have 107 parking spaces um and then finally on Saturday um well again Saturday morning we
anticipate that with all of the uses in effect the parking demand would be 95 parking spaces and again we have 107 all of those uses being the basketball court the exercise facilities uh the classrooms because we will have uh uh
students there on uh Saturday mornings and um again in the evening uh when all of the facilities are being potentially being used the basketball court and the uh exercise rooms and the classrooms we
also anticipate a demand of roughly 90 parking spaces so I guess what this chart indicates to you or should indicate to you is that there are peaks and valleys in the use the peak is
obviously on Friday afternoon when we have the two prayer services but again based upon the uh parking that's being provided and the two prayer services we don't ever anticipate that there will be a parking issue on Friday afternoons um and also
uh we have the use of an additional 22 parking spaces offsite if we need them so let me just see if I've covered everything Mr chairman um I think I have uh the only thing I'd
like to supplement is I want to insert a new page six because the page six that you have where do you want to insert this uh this would be uh under special events under the
um under Ramadan yeah it would be in the day in the life uh Mr chairman so page six in the day of the life are you going to put somebody up to speak about this or No I think I've referenced it i think I just wanted to reference the fact that the Samell Elementary School uh will be utilized
for overflow parking that's all I wanted to do so I have just an amendment to page six okay uh Mr saxs I may just recommend that the applicant introduce um both the parking
opency occupancy spreadsheet as well as the um calendar document and the um detailed report on room space and usage of specific exhibits that's fine we can do that okay i'm not sure what
the exhibit number is beth may have that for me what's our last one if you know i think that would be our our I agree exhibit seven all right so A7 uh Mr mr pullman if you want I'll we'll use the uh day in the life as uh
A7 and then I think we can use the detailed report on room and space usage as A8 we can reference the chart that I just uh gave the highlights to as
A9 and page supplemental page six can be A10 uh and I have an extra copy of that which I can provide uh to your secretary mr chairman with that said um certainly we could answer any questions as to what we've just indicated are the
revisions and and what's contained in those in the operations manual uh I also have my traffic engineer here again this evening uh Mr stimmel okay that's fine does anybody from the board have any
questions of the uh Mr sachs on the information we just went over u Mr chairman just one question uh Mr saxs you you referenced an offsite location for 22 additional uh spaces can you elaborate on that the
address three three Johnson Place Councilman is that the uh former um hot dog stand for hot dog location Mr d um that's currently on uh I don't believe that that's occupied right now if it was
would that alter your your plans no we have we have a lease with them so they'll have to make whatever provisions are necessary thank you so it's your testimony that you have three Johnson Place and the middle the
uh Slover school yes and and really the school is only for Ramadan and for Eid but we certainly have the use of Three Johnson Place if we needed it at any other time again I don't anticipate that we'll ever need it based upon the uh limitation on occupancy how far of a
walk from Three Johnson Place to the mosque about a half a block more than that johnson johnson Lane i'm sorry it might be more it's more than half a block but
it's it's a few blocks okay anybody else have any questions want to bring up your traffic thank you okay have a seat mr chairman actually before you swear in Mr stimmel I just want to Mr fisher I
just want to make sure I meant to say it at the beginning uh we provided you with the affidavit of service and the notices and everything I assume is in order for jurisdiction thank you all right please raise your right hand
swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so I help you God i do all right if you are under oath thank you uh Mr chairman I know Mr stimmel has testified before i believe his qualifications have not changed mr stimmel your license is still in good
standing is that correct yes okay motion to accept his credentials all in favor i mr steml since uh we were last here in October I know that you uh undertook some additional traffic studies uh
you've also had the opportunity to uh receive the report uh from Mr fishinger uh dated uh April 11th uh 2025 so if you could give the board the benefit of uh uh your testimony as to the traffic
study sure uh since the last time we were in front of the board and find it hard to believe it was six months ago but I'm sure Mr saxs is right we submitted uh two documents the first was February 19th 2025 and it was basically a summary of
two different sets of traffic counts that were performed at the Madison Park Volunteer Fire Company that's where the the mosque community is currently holding their Friday prayer services the first was done on Friday May 17 2024
that had previously been submitted to the board and previously testified to but that was Friday May 17th from 12:00 p.m until 400 pm so it captured both the early and the late prayer service on a Friday afternoon at the fire company uh the results of those count showed a
total of 270 persons entering the site and 195 vehicles over the 4hour period so again that's both services um that equals a vehicle occupancy rate of 1.38 persons per vehicle we did an
updated count at the fire company on Friday January 17th of this year again from 12 until 400 p.m results of the count showed a total of 263 persons entering the site so pretty consistent with the the counts from May of 24 which
was 270 it dropped slightly to 263 uh but the 263 persons arrived at the site and 159 vehicles over the 4-hour period which is a vehicle occupancy rate of 1.65 persons per vehicle uh I I provided
some additional information regarding the operation at the fire company as it currently exists i don't know how relevant that is to the board's consideration but it has been submitted into the record the second document that was provided was from April 1st of
2025 so just about two weeks ago uh we did an updated capacity analysis at the locations of the proposed site driveways using similar methods as to the October 2nd 2024 traffic study which was
submitted in the updated analysis the site volumes were based on the weekly parking table i think Mr sachs called it the parking occupancy spreadsheet which was provided by vision design and was just testified to and we use the May of
2024 automatic traffic recorder data taken across the site frontage on Ernston Road as the basis for the existing traffic volumes so using those projections and that traffic data we looked at driveway operations at four
different times of day or days of week uh the first was the weekday morning uh Mr fisinger had recommended we look at the weekday morning commuter period which is 7 to 9:00 a.m as Mr saxs testified to the morning prayers would
start at 5 um start between 5 and 6:30 in the morning depending on the time of year and would be concluded by 7 a.m so it's actually a little bit before the weekday peak period for commuter traffic so for the morning analysis we looked at the traffic volumes from 6:00 a.m to
7:00 a.m using the occupancy for the morning prayer service which would be 23 vehicles in 23 vehicles out results of the analysis showed that movements at the site driveway operate at level of service B or better and that is largely because of the lower volume at that
early time of morning the second period we looked at was the typical weekday evening from 5 to 6:00 pm so the weekday evening peak period for street traffic generally falls between 4 and 6:00 p.m depending on the
time of year the afternoon prayers or the sunset prayers could fall within that window uh the sunset prayers are anticipated to be more heavily attended so that's what we used as the basis for this analysis with 23 vehicles entering and 23 vehicles exiting and then assume
that all vehicles arriving for the subsequent weekn night activities 54 vehicles would enter during that window as well the results of that analysis show that the site driveways operate at level of service D or better during the
weekday evening peak period we gave a new consideration using a slightly different approach with the Friday midday period which was from 1 to 2:00 p.m as has been testified to extensively we expect that the Friday afternoon prayer services would be the busiest
typical weekly event at the mosque uh we expect based on that parking table to have 107 vehicles enter 107 vehicles exit the site during that peak hour so we analyzed that as as the driveway is
proposed uh an unsignalized driveway and came up with level of service D or better for driveway movements at Mr fishinger's recommendation we looked at the analysis as if there was a traffic signal present to represent the presence of a police traffic director at that
location not surprisingly the levels of service became slightly better at that location it improved from level of service D to level of service C or better for the Friday midday period and then finally the Saturday morning P peak
period uh was taken to be 11:00 a.m to 12:00 p.m the schedule of activity shows a parking occupancy of 106 vehicles during the Saturday morning period it is likely or expected that there will be a turnover of some of these vehicles
throughout the morning while the background traffic volumes along Ernston Road increased throughout the morning period so we studied the period from 11:00 a.m to 12 noon assuming half of the vehicles out of that 106 would turn over in a given hour 53 in 53 out and
found level of service D at the proposed site driveways moving to Mr fisinger's April 11th 2025 review letter and I'm going to skip over the uh the comments that have already been addressed the first comment
starting on page two ask for testimony regarding the results of the revised analysis which was just provided to the board uh comment two talks about the provision of police traffic control wi which Mr sachs clarified I believe the times that the police traffic control
would be present on the site comment number three comment number four and comment number five were previously addressed comment number six talks about the um 107 parking space demand as well as
contingency plans should the demand exceed the supply on site uh again I believe Mr zach uh provided some information on that 107 uh parking spaces is the calculation based on the ordinance requirement also talked about
the uh provision of 22 off-site parking spaces comment number seven at the top of page five uh talks about the vehicle occupancy of three persons per vehicle um that that table that was submitted is
just a projection of the full occupancy of the parking component assigned to each aspect of the use so if the calculation based on the ordinance is 107 parking spaces for the prayer hall the table assumes that when the primary services are occurring that the 107
parking spaces are occupied uh it doesn't the ordinance doesn't say the parking demand should be calculated based on the occupied seats or based on the number of persons attending uh if you did that you might come up with a slightly different number but it's it's two different things really it's the
parking per seats or the parking per per attendees uh and that's the difference between the two sets of numbers comment number eight was previously addressed comment number nine was was addressed uh earlier this
evening comment number 10 was addressed earlier this evening comment number 11 was previously addressed as was 12 comment number 13 goes back to the police traffic directors which we just spoke about 14 and 15 were previously
addressed um and then it moves on to the parking comments at the bottom of page seven the first parking comment relates to the stackers and the valet operation which have have of course been eliminated from the
plan uh comment number two operational testimony was just provided comment number three was previously addressed comment number four um it is about the turnover between
the services uh and we would expect that with an hour gap between the start of the two primary services on Friday it would take about 20 minutes 25 minutes to unload all the vehicles from the site based on the operation of the site
previously uh we had done counts when this project started when the mosque was in operation at 216 Ernston Road and anticipate that it would take about the same amount of time to clear uh people from my observation at the fire hall obviously it's a different location but
people aren't there to linger after the prayer services they're they're there to pray and and get back to their daily routine comment number five uh testimony was provided about the uh the the parking lot function comment
number six um I I believe we had previously spoken about the tandem parking spaces but the inner tandem spaces would be assigned to the mosque staff and the stacked parking lifts have been eliminated from the plan
uh comment number seven and eight relate to uh vehicle maneuvering we can have our engineer uh when we go over Mr cornell's report i believe a lot of this is subsumed in there as well so we'll we'll cover that when we go over his report
all right so I won't I won't hit those points right now uh comment number nine relating to the likelihood of school buses or charter buses on the site um we do not expect to have any on the property comment number 10
relates to vehicle circulation comment 11 does as well number 10 will be provided we'll provide those uh uh turning paths uh really I think the remaining comments are probably all for
the site engineer uh comment number 14 has been previously addressed so I think those are all the the comments from Mr fishinger's letter that come under my my heading mr stimmel just just one question let's let's we've eliminated the stacked
parking system because we've limited the occupancy uh of this building so we don't need this the additional parking uh but in your professional opinion is there going to be sufficient time between the two Friday services uh for
that lot to be fully cleared out yes okay and um we've agreed that the those inner spaces inner tandem spaces uh will be limited to staff um oh there's a comment about
uh additional signage perhaps uh is there additional signage that we could put up on site to reinforce the concept uh that there'll be no left turns out of this site we can put additional signage at the location of the driveway additional striping and signage across
Ernston Road i think there was also a comment about additional signage related to pedestrian crossings which we could certainly add as well uh obviously anything in the in the public rightway would be subject to county approval okay and uh certainly on Friday afternoons
we've agreed as a condition that the police will be directing and monitoring traffic uh in and out of this site um all right so in terms of left turns that would be a control that the police would have as well correct okay Mr chairman I don't have any
further questions of Mr stmmel i I hopefully he's covered most of Mr fishinger's concerns i do have my engineer who can cover some of the internal site plan uh issues there's just a few of them but certainly he's available for any questioning by the
board any anybody have any questions of the traffic engineer i just have one or two Mr chairman so good evening joe Fischinger with Bright View Engineering um Bill I know we've been back and forth a
number of times on the technical analysis and for the board's benefit through that iterative process they've addressed a lot of my technical comments um can I'm just want some clarification on the occupancies you observed at the
firehouse versus the three people or three prayer mats per vehicle if I understand one's sort of an ordinance requirement and one is real world so using the real world numbers using the numbers you observed at the
firehouse how many people do you act expect to be on the in the facility on a Friday service what's the how do you justify the the comparison of the two yeah the the numbers we've counted at the facility have been fairly consistent
from the the prior counts to the updated counts uh we expect that there's going to be something along the lines of 270 persons at the site between the two services on a Friday um so you know if you uh take the take the um split it in
two you've got 135 persons at each of the services and with the uh car sharing and you know with the provision of the off-site parking as needed we don't anticipate that there's going to be a problem with the parking supply at the facility
sorry Mr saxs had said earlier that of the two services the first would be much more widely attended do you expect with two services if the first one's too busy will people move to the second are they
I I do there's a there is a convenience-based aspect to this um you know the you don't necessarily if you've got 270 people at the mosque on a given day it's not going to necessarily be the same 270 people the next week if you work at an office nearby that's your
obvious location if you live nearby and you happy happen to be home that that's where you're going to go if you're a person who's moving about during the course of a day you'll you'll go to the most convenient location but I think you're going to develop a pattern and we had talked about this before where um
you know if this is convenient for you you're going to go there and part of that is the parking if and we don't expect this to happen if there's a problem where people can't park conveniently at the site and get in and out of it in a in a time frame that works with them it's going to self-regulate they'll either come back
for the later service they'll find another mosque they'll they'll find a way to uh to share a ride similar as you would at any large um large function at a public building um you know there's a lot of parking here for instance but because of the demand for these meetings
people may have had to take the opportunity to to get a ride with a friend or a neighbor and it would be no different there and then my last question and this may be handled by another witness there were a lot of restrictions on when various spaces within the building would and
wouldn't be used how is that policed how is that enforced is there any method for the town to be able to know whether or not those spaces are being used at certain times yeah uh Mr vesser maybe I can respond to that one
uh I think it's it's fairly common knowledge in this religion and in any mosque that when prayer services are occurring the other uses do not occur and I don't think that's any different from any other religion quite frankly um
you know if there's uh Sunday services at a church or Saturday morning services uh at a synagogue the other activ the other rooms are not being utilized so it's it's more or less ingrained uh into the uh into the concept of this
particular religion or any religion um but we're going to you know we certainly will make that a condition of approval um you know I don't expect that a zoning officer is going to come down necessarily and accurately determine that but it's certainly in the best interests of the house of worship to
make sure that there's certainly enough parking here and just overall respect for the tenants of the religion that when prayer services are occurring nothing else should should be occurring so those were all my questions Mr chairman
very much anybody else mr chairman go ahead question um how many parking places are in the parking garage how many are in the underground portion give us give us a second i didn't bring my plan up hold on one
second 64 underground okay assuming that 64 cars show up at one time how long is it going to take to park each one of those cars without stacking them up and presenting
a a backup out on insurance to the road the the parking lifts have been eliminated and the valet parking operation has going to be eliminated so it's going to be self-parked but I believe the applicant does still intend to have people in the parking lot to assist and say "There's there's parking
over here there's parking over here." Okay so I'm If you pull in your car you drive in you're only going down the ramp about five miles an hour to park the car it's going to take at least a minute from the time you enter to the time you park your car now if you stack up 64
cars how long is that going to take for all of those cars to park satisfactory well they're they're all going to be processing simultaneously it's not going to be a queue of 64 cars at the parking garage um and not everyone is going to
arrive simultaneously so well assuming that you do you have an influx you have a growth in your congregation that it never happens that way i've been doing traffic studies for 25 years and people always propose these scenarios if
you have 20 apartments and two cars in each apartment what if all 40 cars try to get out at the same time and if you think about the street you live on look at your neighbors to the left and to the right of you and across the street how often do all the cars in all the houses try to pull out at the same time it just
doesn't work that way there's going to be a staggered arrival as there is at the fire hall right now and there's going to be a staggered departure uh you know people get up leave from different parts of the building they they find their shoes they make their way to their
car they say hi to their friend it's not it's not all 107 or 64 in the basement coming and going at exactly the same time well I'm assuming as your uh your service at Ramadan you're going to have that influx at that time
the service at Ramadan the testimony was that the attendance is expected to be about the same as it is at the Friday prayer service but a greater concentration of people in the vehicles a higher occupancy per vehicle because it's after work so people are going to go there as a family
so and I didn't specifically anal analyze this but it sounds like they're expecting same number of people fewer vehicles mr stemmo is your uh client seeking a variance for parking well I'm going to I'm going to answer
that okay um we have agreed to uh and I think Mr mcdana may have alluded to it at the last hearing when he gave his planning testimony but we have agreed that the um the uses will not be occurring at the same time because if you were to add up
all the uses we would need 250 parking spaces based upon the calculation uh by Mr cornell and your staff however uh the basketball facility is not going to be utilized when the prayers are being utilized and vice versa same thing with the multi-purpose room same thing with
the classrooms the exercise rooms so I would argue that we're really not seeking a variance because if you take and Mr stimmel can probably back me up on this but if you're going to take the highest occupancy uh load which would be for the Friday
afternoon services um based upon the uh the ordinance we we're required to have 107 parking spaces and that's what we've provided so I think if we if we were not going to limit the other activities from occurring
during in other words occurring at the same time if we were to say well yeah sure on a Friday afternoon while the prayer services are going on somebody can play basketball uh then I yes I think we would require a variance but I I think if you look specifically at the highest load we have enough parking and
I'll let Mr stimmel respond to that as well i I don't know that I have too much to add to it um as to whether or not a variance is required i think that's ultimately going to be the the board that makes that determination my focus is more on whether or not the parking is
adequate and in my review I believe that it is mr chair it seems that whether a variance is required is a legal question i'm not sure I asking our lawyer where he stands
that reading the ordinance uh if you take it literally you don't require a variance but just um for uh belton suspenders I would recommend that you
request one I'll be guided by your legal counsel uh but again I think we've provided the proof proofs you know to justify that that's ultimately up to the board but uh well I just want to be clear is uh Mr stimmel testifying regarding the
positive and negative criteria that you need to get a variance no and I No he's not because he's only providing traffic testimony i believe Mr mcdana covered that at the last hearing if you feel you if we feel we need him to come back he's not here this evening but we certainly
can have him come back and address that anybody else have any questions uh yes chairman i have a question go ahead so out of 107 parking spaces how many are for disabled how many are uh ADA accessible ada accessible wearing my contacts was a
mistake uh there's one two three in the basement and I believe two two in the surface uh whatever the provision is I know that it complies with the ADA because the comment I
believe was in CME's review my only concern is if you're going 100% like 107 needed 107 you have and you have these ADA compliant the expectation is you would have those that many ADA people and if there are none then you're short right if I recall the healthy individual
show up the ADA parking spaces are counted towards the towards the total i understand what you're saying yeah if you run 12 and you require 107 then yeah I would feel much more comfortable doing that i I I understand what you're saying uh there there is no perfect answer to
that what I suspect would happen is that you have some people in the community that that would need the spaces uh you have some people in the community that maybe don't have the tag but do have a difficulty getting around that could also use them even if it wasn't five
members of the the community um at each service that that had the required tag thank you anybody else have any questions go ahead so on the um oneh hour intervals for all
the prayer services that you've listed is that the duration that the people come in to pray during for the whole hour or they only come in for a few minutes or the service is pretty short i I observed it at the fire hall uh where where they're currently having
a service um it's it's maybe 10 or 15 minutes of what I would call a sermon or a homaly and then 5 minutes of prayers at the end uh so the whole thing is 20 minutes okay cuz we were talking about everyone coming in to park their cars
around the same time so usually everyone comes for a service at the same time leaves at the same time but in this case you're saying people will come between that hour and they'll come in for 15 20
minutes leave and then more people will come for 15 20 minutes and leave is that is that the way it works it's two different services one early start time one late start time the start times are offset by an hour so there's more than enough time to clear out the lots
between the two services if you've got 40 minutes where there's no service occurring right but I'm talking about within So the morning service is from 6:00 a.m to 7 right it it varies at the time of the year but the the morning services 15
minutes it's only 15 minutes the morning service okay in fact uh all of the services are really only 15 minutes i I think so that would make the people come together even more so right they'd be all coming at the same time for 15 minutes well the the the services I
think I've indicated in the uh operations manual you get about 35 people maximum uh at one of the either this the early morning service or the nighttime service um and you know we anticipate that no more than 270 people
will be attending two different services now understand something we we will have the police there who will be monitoring this traffic and one of their instructions will be to clear the lot so they will you know and there will not be uh and again I think Mr stimulus
testified to it after the service is over people don't dillydally they got to get back to work they got to get back to school that what whatever got to get back home um I think Mr stimmel you're you're comfortable with uh the analysis
that you've done at the firehouse to determine that that lot cleared out fairly quickly with and by the way there there were police there's police assistance there as well on Fridays and do you anticipate any problem at this at the subject site i I did observe the
operation at the fire hall i don't believe there's police traffic directors there or at least there were not the day I was there uh because there is a little bit lower volume of traffic on the the frontage road uh but the the operation of the people let's say is going to be
the same as at this site at 216 Ernston Road the people are there they pray they leave relatively quickly uh it it it is throttled somewhat because of the fact that you you stream out of the building you're you're getting yourself together
etc you get back to your car your cars are in different parts of the property um but I I think that part of it would be the same as at Ernston Road i think uh as Mr sax said I don't anticipate a problem with the vehicles exiting the property i looked at the video when the
site was operating at this location previously um and it was it was pretty quick people got out of that site fairly quickly without uh without the traffic directors when I observed it
have any questions uh Mr chairman Mr sax just just to clarify because I know it took a long time to get to a specific number but it's my understanding that based on the burrow ordinance standards the um proposed with the proposed uses
for the building we've agreed on 2 that the standard is 250 parking spaces you're and you're proposing 107 yes with the caveat however No I understand the caveat i just wanted to make sure yes that those two numbers are
are set yeah and just so the record is clear so the 250 would be every single use occurring at the same particular time which we have agreed not to be the case so that's why I I agree with your legal counsel from um a purely
analytical approach you would take the greatest demand for parking that being the that being the Friday afternoon prayer service 107 but yes if if I would just look at all of the uses taken together Councilman it would be 250 but
again we have agreed that that will not be something that will occur thank you Mr s when when we say it's not going to occur is this going to be put into an ordinance so that your operating manual is the law and if you have to follow it your resolution is the is the law so if
the board acts favorably you're going to put a condition in the resolution that uh that no other activities will occur when prayer services are occurring and and violation of that would constitute a action that could be enforced by code
enforcement that's correct anybody else have any other questions mr saxs you have any anything else mr chairman I if you'd like I can go
through I can go through the report of uh CME of CME i can bring up Mr khan because I think he can uh address some of the con comments that are in there uh if that's all right i think we have addressed Mr fishingers report and I can
also go over the planners report as well chairman um pri chairman prior before um I need to change the exhibit numbers um so we need to amend the record for the day and the life it's going to be A10 the chart will be A1 and page six will
be A12 got to do that huh you swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God i do you're under oath thank you go ahead Beth we need to clarify that again um for clarification the exhibits
will be A10 will be a day in the life A11 will be the chart and A12 will be the new page six beth what um what were we going to designate the um detailed report on room
and space usage that was a separate document was that the chart no the the the chart was the um was the I'm going to call it a spreadsheet but that's probably inappropriate term it's more of a document that looks like an Excel spread Excel spreadsheet then we can
make that A13 yeah because the I believe Mr sachs correct me if I'm wrong but your your order of it was the day in the life and then you had the detailed report on room and space usage okay then that would be A1
okay then 12 will be I think what we called the chart which which is a looks like a spreadsheet with some tables and Yes all right that'll be day 12 and then that page six the new page six will be A13 then
thank you thank you everybody clear all right you're sworn in if we could just go over CMEs from uh summaries Mr chairman can we proceed go ahead okay thank you um Mr khan and I know Mr khan
testified uh he's testified at pri p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p prior hearings but he also gave some insight as to how uh the mosque operates at one of the earlier meetings um Mr khan if you could give the board the benefit because I want you to clarify the Friday
Friday afternoon prayer service in particular um you have designed a number of mosques in your career correct how many uh I would say more than 15 okay um and you're familiar with how the prayer services operate correct so perhaps you
can give some clarification to the board uh as to how this parking lot will clear out in your opinion sure um I know there are some concerns from the board members about if all the cars are coming at the same time uh I can talk about the Friday
prayers uh I practice the same religion so I attend every Friday to my local mosque as well as I've designed over 15 mosques throughout New Jersey more than 15 mosques uh the way the Friday prayers work is there's a sermon that starts at
a given time let's say 1:00 it's a 15-minute sermon then there is a mandatory prayer service which is about 5 minutes as Mrs testified the way people uh especially on Fridays some people are coming from
actually most of the people are coming from work so they have a very limited time during lunch break to come in and out uh and uh do the whatever is the bare minimum obligatory uh practice so what they do is most of
the people you will see like there are some people that will come before the start of the sermon there are people who are coming throughout the sermon while the sermon is being held people are still walking in order driving into the facility and there are people who are
just there just to attend the obligatory prayer which is a 5 minute slot and they are the ones who are usually stuck finding a parking space if the mosque is already filled so so but as far as leaving it's the same process some pe
after obligatory prayers you have to do some uh voluntary prayers I would I will call them so some people stay for those voluntary prayers which will take another 5 10 minutes some people who are rushing to go back to work they as soon as the obligatory prayer five minute prayer is over you will see that they
will start leaving so it's not something that everybody's coming in at the same time and everybody's leaving at the same time and then in our case uh there will be a police directors at at the driveways so in case the late comers who are coming and if the parking lot is
full they will be stopped right there by the police director there will be volunteers within the parking area from the mosque who will be coordinating with the police director so if the parking lots are full both the basement and the service the police can just tell them to move along and if they have to come for
a second uh to attend the second prayer service they will attend second prayer service or they will go to any other mosque or next time they will be careful to come early so that's how it works like again I've been I mean practicing Muslim and I never seen even like the mosque I go it has only street parking
it doesn't even have any on-site parking it's in a city block like again there's a street parking and you will see like they never have like of course the people who are coming late they have to walk a little bit further but they can still find parking but the same thing here here at least we are providing 107
on-site parking we don't anticip and plus two services so we are distributing the people within like if technically if you count it's like 214 spaces for the two services total 107 for one first
service 107 for second service so I don't see like again and I've been practicing I've been attending different mosque I've never seen that every all likeund or three whatever is the uh occupancy everybody's coming at the same time and leaving at the same time thank
thank you Mr khan all right let's just briefly go through Mr cornell's report it's dated uh April 16th 2025 actually that's the date of the hearing it's actually dated April 11th
okay all right um but in any event um let's turn to page three um and uh some technical comments here i just want to make sure that we if you want me to sum up I can All right let's let's go through them real quickly all
right uh paragraph five uh confirmation that there'll be no outdoor activities or events taking place on the property outside of the building is that correct that is correct all right paragraph six he'd like us uh to revise the uh the the
uh the grading to a minimum slope of 2% can that we I mean we will try again the area in particular for this comment it's pretty flat we will try to g get as much or as close possible to 2% without creating any drainage issues in the area
so but yeah we will work with your office and whatever best we can do we can uh we will try to comply with that requirement all right paragraph 7 is just a comment about deed consolidation so that's that's not a problem uh paragraph 8 was a comment I guess from a a earlier
hearing where we agreed to um address potential impacts of vibrations during construction on the adjacent properties and we'll that's a continuing condition we'll we'll do whatever we have to do with respect to that
um paragraph nine hey Larry before you start since we're talking about the soil and you're going to be removing a lot of it is there going to you're going to put a a time limit when the dump trucks can come in and come out yeah whatever i think you have an ordinance that uh that
deals with times on that but certainly we'll do it so as to not uh you know to minimize any impact on the surrounding neighborhood thank you u Mr khan paragraph nine uh were we going to be able to use any of the material for uh for the buffers uh yes we again as I
said like yeah we will try to accommodate uh as much of the BMS from the materials that will be excavated yes all right uh number 10 is just a general comment i think we have provided you with building uh exterior elevations uh
number 11 um all right so I think they want some improvement layers on these sheets you'll have to provide that for them yes uh I I believe like during printing probably some of the layers were frozen so yeah we will uh make sure that we'll
address that issue all right if you can address comments one and two under the sanitary sewer all right uh sanitary sewer I think there is a comment in the CN report about the area study of uh sanitary sewer if it can handle the
additional uh flow from the proposed facility and of course I think uh since we are the same thing like the the way we did the parking that we are counting all the uses to basically be happening at the same time for the parking total requirement parking requirement and I
believe in your report you mentioned that we should count the other uses as well uh for the senator sewer calculations which we don't have any issue however again this uh senator connection or senator design
that we are proposing it's subject to the approval of the utility authority we are not triggering any TWWA permit from D we are not uh in I mean exceeding the 8,000 gallon threshold uh my understanding even if you include all the uses we will be close to 2,000 or
3,000 gallons per day however this is a conservative approach again the peak hour is the Friday prayer service only so but again doing the area wide study I mean um it can I'm not sure and again if
we can talk further like how far or how much you want but again it will be uh we will be seeking will serve letters from the utility authority then if they feel like there are any issues in the area in sanitary sever that we will be generating from our property is going to
impact we will work with them and whatever is required we'll work with them and do But as far as the study it is a very broad like again we can we can work with you and the sewer department to come up with those requirements thank you very much yeah okay uh water
distribution uh comments um we can comply with those those uh requests same yeah yeah the same thing and again we will work with CME on okay those items too all right storm water I think uh storm water are both mostly like housekeeping items i think we addressed
most of those comments between the previous report comments as well as the updated plans but yeah we don't have any issues with complying those with all right so any of those technical comments and storm storm sewer system you'll comply with correct all right landscaping and lighting
um you'll comply all right i think Jay there was a request for some additional planning we'll certainly if we can if we have the opportunity to do that we'll do so it was a combination of using excess soil to create BMS that you can raise the elevation and put additional screening in that's what the intent is
yeah and I I I will look into it and we'll try to comply as much as we can and again we will work with your office all right let's see parking lot improvements and miscellaneous i know paragraph one we're seeking a waiver for parking in the front yard setback i think we've addressed that with prior
testimony um also paragraph two the uh interior uh uh sidewalks uh and we're also asking for a waiver on that um yeah paragraph three we provided the sidewalk connection as requested by the board so
that's now on the plans uh paragraph four is a waiver request for uh uh head-to-head parking um that was something I believe we provided testimony at a previous hearing uh
loading number five loading i uh Jay I think we indicated that the the only loading that's going to occur here is delivery by a UPS or FedEx truck we don't really have any other deliveries that Understood but based on ordinance you're required to have it so you're looking for a waiver we're looking for a
waiver on that yes um number six uh I don't know Adnan you want to address number six oh the deceleration lane yeah we did discuss this with the county and county is okay of not providing actually they
encouraged not to provide a deceleration lane i think same condition it's required by ordinance you need a waiver understand the county doesn't allow it okay that's fine um seven is just a general comment that's fine with your fire official eight um he'll comply
he'll comply traffic uh I think again most of this has really been covered by uh by Mr stimmel um at least paragraphs 1 two and three uh
paragraph 4 we will have uh police officers on Friday afternoons ramadan and special events when necessary and we have indicated that we have off-site parking at three Johnson Lane for 22
parking spaces and for Ramadan uh during we'll utilize the Samell school uh just like we continue to use it for overflow parking um I think five is just a recitation of everything I provided for you earlier i I think Mr sex on item
five some of those events I don't think were specifically discussed in your reports and the question is do any of these events impact any the parking space testimony you provided no not at all uh let's see number six uh is
wedding receptions yes we will not do wedding receptions there there could be a wedding but no reception uh number seven I think Mr stimmel addressed earlier number eight uh I think number eight we is just a general comment uh
number nine uh yeah number nine I think is conditions that you uh imposed uh on the uh Washington Road House of Worship uh certainly we have no problem with that as well mr cornell epic nine and 10 talk
about uh conditions for future y uh evaluations of as constructed situations to see if what you're proposing is working if not you may have to come up with other means to address those issues yeah and we we will agree to come back to this uh board with new traffic
studies because I think that's really the the issue so yes that that's fine Jay and um you know what let me I think Mr fishinger also had some comments mr con let's just go to uh page nine of his report all right so
paragraph seven uh you'll provide those turning templates is that Yeah we have a circulation plan but yeah we usually focused on the driveways but uh we did run it ran it uh throughout the site uh and again those points we can add to our
circulation plan to assure make sure like the fire truck and uh passenger car trucks can have a free circulation throughout the site all right and even on the I know there's a comment about an SU30 crossing the driveway center line uh we will agree that uh any garbage
pickup will occur uh during off hours so there'll be no activity uh so certainly crossing over shouldn't be an issue [Music] uh number 10 are vehicle turning paths you'll
provide those yes okay and number 11 number 11 deals with a concrete island is that going to be feasible uh that is something that we can definitely work with you but again the the driveway if you provide a concrete island that
will shrink the size of the drive uh unless we make the driveway width wider which means it will encroach into the buffer so I think this easier solution is to provide no left turn and again it will be the police officer will be there police director will be there
and that can be enforced uh through manual means and with the sign and I understand ultimately the design of the driveway is the county's perview since it opens to a county road okay good thank you and finally I think
Mr fishinger has in paragraph 13 is requested that we add some pedestrian warning signage and we'll comply with that and I think uh paragraph 14 we addressed already all right i Mr chairman I think we've covered all
of the traffic and engineering i don't know if uh your planner wants me to go through his report i think a lot of it is a recitation of what was there previously but um let me just take a look at it real quickly if if you wouldn't mind if it in
case it helps uh from item E onward I think we'll be in in newer territory most of the items before them were already addressed okay great okay so Mr chairman I think that concludes uh us reviewing the reports the last report I
have is from your shade tree commission uh and we will uh we will work with your shade tree commission to restore uh whatever is necessary on the site thank you that's it Mr chairman that's it
anybody have any questions on Mr on CM's report mr chair go ahead uh Mr khan am I correct that despite the size of this proposed building nearly 43,000 square ft the maximum occupancy of the building
is going to be limited to 321 people correct that is correct yes okay um what is what's the applicant plan to do to make sure it's limited to that 321 given the size of this
building the again the size of the uh prayer hall is 3 I think 321 I believe you mentioned that is dictated by the fire code and fire marshall so that it is it is what it is like again if they exceed and if there are fire
inspection and they find that they can be invi held in violation for that so it's basically a code code enforcement issue and code issue and of course for the safety of the parishioners as well like they don't want to jam 500 people where only 300 people are allowed yeah
and you you understand that that road I I believe it's it might be number one it's certainly within the top five most dangerous county roads in Middle Sex you you agree with that right and we need to make sure that um the amount of people going in since
you've you've limited the occupancy now at 321 needs to make sure that's being adhered to and it doesn't help anyone if it's honored in the breach and now now it becomes a situation where we only know that it's uh you've exceeded that
because we've seen the traffic back up on Ernston Road all the way back to Washington Avenue um no is the applicant going to put any um checks and balances in there to make sure that that 321 is adhered to are they going to be blocking
off rooms are there is there going to be someone up front counting the the people coming in are there going to be people up front to say uh basement base the underground lots full um what's going to
what that area is really bad i think anyone who experiences that road and I'm sure that the applicant doesn't want it to be a bad situation there for the parishioners so my question is is there anything that can be done to make sure that we keep it limited to that number
and there's a checks and balance so we don't have a a bad situation say at you know 5:00 when it's already a nightmare situation yeah and and let me respond you know first of all the activity on Friday is really in the afternoon so even it's really not during the rush
hour it's certainly when school lets out probably the beginning of when school lets out but uh we will you know and certainly you can condition us to the hilt here we will agree uh police direct police activity there every Friday
afternoon for both of those services police activity there um during Ramadan police activity there during a special event if god forbid there's a funeral and it's well attended but the police will be instructed to not let anybody
into that lot when it's full the uh we will have monitors that will also be in the parking lot that can report you know if there's any available spaces down below so Larry are these are the I'm sorry to cut you off are these going to be um dedicated monitors or is it just
going to be volunteers is there going to be someone whose position is There's definitely going to be someone there to make sure yes yeah these are dedicated monitors are they the two people that you have as employees of the mosque no no we'll make sure that these people are members of
the mosque who are there all the time and are familiar with the parking configuration uh the the other one the two people who will be there all the time are probably just secretaries in the office if I may add to the board members comment also i think the biggest uh limitation here that puts a check and
balance to the occupancies are parking once the parking lot is full nobody's allowed to come in so whether it's 150 people 200 people or 300 people I don't think so like the 300 people will be attending the Friday's mosque any Friday prayers anyway but once the parking lot
is full the police directors will just make them move that's that's not true because you have 22 other spots down in Johnson's Lane now if you have 107 cars in and the other 22 people you're over yeah let me let me just add one other
check and balance on this is the fact that now that we have delineated where the prayer mats are unlike other religions you know we're not going to have people standing you can't have people standing in a mosque they've got to be on the ground and they will have a dedicated prayer mat you know I forgot
the size of it but whatever the size is and that's how you see on the architectural plans that we've submitted you know there are only a certain number of prayer mats in the men's prayer hall and then the ladies prayer hall once those prayer mats are occupied that's it no one else is coming into the building
um so there are there are some internal checks and balances as well listen we're not building a mosque to attract a thousand people that's not what the goal is here this is going to be a mosque that's going to be limited to 321 worshippers during any particular
prayer to refresh my recollection what is the current size of the uh the congregation right now well we're right now we're getting about uh 270 I think is is what we're getting at the firehouse we don't expect that
that's going to change too much there are a proliferation of mosques in the area uh they tend to attract people tend to go to the same mosque so I doubt that the 321 mats will even ever be fully occupied on a Friday uh and also as
we've indicated we have two services and we know that the first service tends to be double of what the first of the second service so I I don't think I understand the board's concern about checks and balances but they're there and even if the police aren't there's
going to be two dedicated um individuals to assist with parking yes when the police aren't there so if so for instance if the underground lot's full someone would notify people coming in so you don't have a stacking issue on board
on Ernston Road causing issues there's it's going to be managed by two individuals the parking in and out of the facility right but we will always have the police there that I can assure you and that can be a condition of any approval so the police will always be
there but not not 24/7 obviously no no but No but I'm talking about on Friday afternoons which is really the biggest the biggest prayer service you know the other services maybe attract 30 attendees we don't need the police there for 30 people coming but there will be people there um even for those non
non-sparse you know those sparse events that are there i'm not sure it's really necessary when 30 people are showing up but uh but we we will commit that the police will be there Friday afternoon uh prayer services and uh Ramadan and
um and special events i don't think it's anything different than police being present uh at a church for Christmas Eve or for Easter Sunday uh or for the police to be present during Russia Shana and Yam Kipur at a synagogue the other
times when those when houses of worship have services there's usually not a police presence uh because there's usually not as much activity but on those special days uh yes and our special day happens to be Friday there will be a police presence
anybody else have anything uh yes I have a question go ahead mr facts uh CME report uh G traffic number five 5D Friday prayer 1:20 p.m to 1:45
p.m max of 200 attendees right uh find a one-off contradiction so you had said the max occupants would be 3:21 if you look at 5A you could have for the prayer for the disease max of 150 people that makes a
total of 350 people can you please explain uh I'm not sure where you're looking hold on a second let me just Number G traffic 5 A and 5D 5 A and 5B
d is in oh D i'm sorry d the Friday prayer um yeah I think uh Mr cornell's numbers yeah I think the numbers I provided you know in testimony are the more accurate numbers so and I think Jay
asked me that question if the numbers that I provided uh in the day in the life are the accurate numbers versus what he has so these numbers came from your traffic report i think what the question is if you combine D and A together you'll exceed the 3:21 because
you're saying Oh DNA yeah that the prayer for the deceased takes place 15 minutes after the 1:20 p.m which is your afternoon prayer service so if that happens on a Friday afternoon then you might exceed the do we have that the 321
that a daily prayer for the deceased is uh the janaza prayer right correct yes yeah janaza prayer can it doesn't have to be on Friday with the prayer services it's usually held after the prayer services the prayer services are over then usually for family and
friends they show and they do uh prayer for the deceased yeah that would be a special event that would be a special event after the Friday service no the only concern is there's only a 15minute gap right so 15 minutes after the prayer service and 15 minutes you talk about 200 people leaving 150 people entering i
mean I I I don't there's no set time for the janaza prayer it can happen anytime from sunrise to sunset so so basically I think that usually what happens like if it's a Friday like when the Friday services are over the family friends stay over and they do it so if it's a
usually like if it's the case since we have two uh prayer services usually the janaza will be at the end of the second prayer service thank you yeah Mr turn uh Mr sex uh you you talked
about just a few minutes ago uh regarding the off-site parking that is if the flow becomes backed up or they're waved off the next opportunity is going to be you know likely it's the 22 spaces down at the Mr d's um which means that
your your attendees will have to traverse across one of the most um major intersections in town now I know probably more than most um the availability of law enforcement at a
time when um this would occur and in fact the officers that you're looking for are probably going to be off duty not on duty how how do you propose to safely um see that those attendees get across the roadway um in those
particular circumstances as I mentioned like in Friday the obligatory portion is very critical if you miss that obligatory portion might as well you can do the bear service at home so people who might be parking in those 22 spaces will probably have to be the first ones
there because let's say if you come at the tail end of the Friday service or the sermon and you're looking for parking in the facility on site and you don't find it by the time you go and park your car in one of those 22 spaces and come back you will miss the prayer
service i understand that my my my question directly is safety right what what procedures are you taking for your attendees to be able to cross what is considered to be one of the five most dangerous intersections in a Middle Sex
County because you can't depend on police officers that are already on site because they're going to be handling the the flow into the into the site itself so my question is what other alternatives do you have for that are you going to use a shuttle service maybe that's a opportunity i don't know but I
think having a vehicle sitting there is probably not a great idea either my understanding is like I think that intersection has a crosswalk and a light I believe there too i believe right before I mean they enter into this block so that's correct and for schools and for students there's obviously crossing
guards to make sure that they're done that's crossed safely my question is what would you do for your attendees because I think it's the same situation it's going to be families traversing up there i would be very concerned about them crossing that high that roadway you
know what uh and now now you'll put your ex- chief's hat on okay um that's why we have him here that's why he's here um certainly if if there's a concern about safety I'm wondering if we could utilize a burrow crossing guard off duty you
know it would be a special officer i I don't want to answer for the for the chief but I know historically we have a minimal number to begin with i think that that probably isn't something that you could utilize unless it corresponds with the service that was something that I was just asked if you would take a
look at and come up with a plan for that yeah I mean we we certainly can yeah we we can look into that uh Councilman and um as I said we're gonna you know if the board acts favorably on this we're going to come back in a year and I think our expectation is you're you're just not
going to see that overflow parking being utilized that there will be enough parking on our site with the two services on a Friday afternoon um and certainly if we have to address it we will with other safety measures seems to seems to me that we hit these
numbers right on the mark and that everything is fine and dandy if it works perfectly right what do you got for growth well as I said before Mr chairman there's there's a proliferation of mosques in the area there's one in Old Bridge there's one in South River
there's obviously one now in uh hopefully there'll be one in Seville uh you know so there are a number of mosques uh we know that our core group is roughly 270 could it expand yes of certainly we hope that it does expand but we also know that we are only
limited to 321 uh attendees uh you know during a Friday prayer um you know it's it's it's almost a self-p policing situation if it turns out that this facility is in incredible
demand and a thousand people want to come here they're not going to be there they're going to sell the property and they're going to build a mosque somewhere else but you know we always account for some growth Mr chairman we always account for some growth but even from growth from say 270
up to 321 you know we're talking about 20% growth i mean that would be almost extraordinary in any house of worship in this day and age we just don't see that uh seems to me you're going up some religions are going down i mean exactly
mr chair go ahead larry is there a formal lease with the uh new owner of the good I call Mr d is a good fellows with We have a Yes okay we do we'll provide that and and right now they're not doing anything with that building
it's just sitting there vacant and Okay no plans that I don't that I can't answer but we do have a lease with them okay hang Hang on we're going to open it up in a minute anybody else on the board have any
questions mr saxs do you want to wrap up uh you know what Mr chairman i probably would like to do that after the public portion you got it okay thank you uh I'm going to take a 10-minute break and then we're going to come back and open it up to the public
no it's 25 after everybody in their seat you didn't rest so that's the question alex so after additional review it does appear that in my view a parking variance is necessary and 250 spaces uh
parking spaces are required and I have spoken with Mr saxs and I believe they will be seeking a variance mr pesco anybody from the board have any comments if not I'll take a motion to open up to
the public motion i have a second all in favor opposed mr chairman I think we just need to clarify one issue with the other go ahead uh Mr saxs in light of the fact
that um your clients acknowledge the need for variance will you be resting this evening or um or providing additional reserving to provide additional um fact witness and expert witness testimony
mr chairman I'd like to reserve on that decision i I would request that you open up to the public certainly they can make comment on anything i don't have an issue you know I don't I don't know what time Mr chairman you want to go we're here until 11:00 or 10 of Okay we're
going to cut it at 10 of 11 so I mean we've got an hour and 40 minutes thank you so you're going to you're going to reserve your right to Yeah I'm going to reserve the right uh yeah I I haven't made that decision yet but certainly I don't want to stop the
public from making any So we're going to take public testimony you're going to be able to speak and ask any questions of the board or the or the uh um professionals that are here from either party what I would like to remind you of is
listen to the people that are speaking before you so we don't have redundant questions if if you're going to make a point that's fine if you're going to believe a point and and beat it to death we don't need to do that okay so I've
been asked this is your time mr robinson if you could come up please come up to the mic state your name and your address for the record and um please be considerate of the people that are speaking so when you get up you'll have
the same consideration thank you Mr chairman jim Robinson in Parl and despite what you just said I'm going to apologize from the beginning i didn't I couldn't hear everything um that was said i couldn't hear all the answers um
so I if I ask something that has already been asked I apologize i went to I went to kindergarten here in 1965 i could hear better then but the acoustics in this room were were were no better then than they are now uh the first question
um is maybe procedural i noticed the that the notice didn't mention any parking variants being requested has it been determined that in fact there is a need for a parking variance or will that be determined at some point and could I couldn't hear anything you said
counselor it has been determined that there is a need for a parking variance there is a need for a parking variance okay and the the notice did not specifically indicate that there's the catchall at the end that says any other variances that are necessary but that
typically that is used when not when the applicant knows in the beginning that a variance is necessary but if during testimony we find oh you know you need a variance for that um so I I would just
ask the the attorneys to take a look at that and and um see um there are seven members of the board present voting members present by the way is that correct that's correct seven tonight okay so two are missing and there are not two
alternates um I want to talk about and I know this was discussed and I'm so happy that I advocated for hiring the traffic expert because uh you touched on something that I want to touch on and when we I sat on
the board when the Dwaradesh Temple uh was before the board and back then we realized that the ordinance that talks about seats is really designed for Christian or Jewish uh facilities but
not those that don't use seats such as the Hindus or or this one so and but the other thing and the ordinance says one parking space per three seats the other
thing that I note is that some of these other facilities folks tend to go to services on Saturday or Sunday and they can go as a family because they are not work days so it
might make sense that you would get three people in a car i don't know if that is necessarily the case if folks are going especially on a Friday afternoon um and I would ask I know there was some question about what did
they observe at the firehouse i'm not sure that I understood that answer totally um but I think we have to talk about that a little bit to see if that 3 to one really applies on a Friday where
folks wouldn't necessarily be coming from home with their families they might be coming from work or some some other place so I think that's a something to take into consideration um the other thing I think we have to take into consideration and I asked during the
break um what is the gender breakup because they're going to be 320 mats i understand that it's approximately 80% men and maybe 20% women because men have an obligation to go to service and women
can um pray at home so I wonder if that has to be taken into consideration that you're talking about you know two 250 men and mats and
um and less for women and I just think we have to figure that into the calculation um I would ask the traffic expert for the applicant and
our traffic expert if from a safety perspective you think it is more desirable to have all of the parking on site i think we all know the answer to that mr mueller you quoted the county um report that I was going to talk about
that talked and Chief Sabrki talked about how dangerous that intersection is i think that has to be taken into consideration i don't know and I'm a former planning board chairman i don't know if another business in town can allocate their parking spaces to
somebody else what happens if at some point in time that restaurant decides to open and those 22 parking spaces have been delegated or relegated to to somebody else so I think I think we have
to talk about that the other thing is I think we have to talk about and I'm going to ask if there were any other alternative plans mr cornell you talked about the the van situation that was imple or that was part of the plan if
the dwaradish temple was approved i was involved with um that and what that and that's entirely different because you know at the at the Hindu temple people don't come every Friday
people come only four or five times or have to come only four or five times a year but they come in in great numbers um so that's different but there the agreement the applicant agreed to have a
minimum minimum of 10 vans to shuttle people chief you talked about if they're going to use those 22 spaces should there be a ban I think that ought to be considered because really anybody who crosses Bordontown Avenue at the intersection of Bernston Road it's
really taking their their life in their hands when they do that the other concern I have about that is I think you are only going to go to those 22 spaces if you first go and see that the 107 spaces are filled up and you then have
to go there so I think that creates a little bit of a problem that that might make it difficult so I'm going to ask the applicant and specifically the applicant's um traffic engineer do they have a plan there have
they looked at any other plans have they run by the idea of the 22 spaces across Bordontown Avenue by the Police Traffic Safety Bureau and what is their opinion of that if they have I have and I
noticed when uh when there was discussion about that and I mentioned this before that Mr saxs responded the traffic engineer did not and I would respectfully suggest that that is the purview of the traffic engineer and the
traffic engineer ought to be answering those questions about traffic with all due respect to my friend Mr saxs um who shouldn't be testifying at all and certainly not about traffic so I would I would put that question to to their
expert um I don't know maybe this was addressed i don't know if the deceleration lane um was talked about you know I think the ordinance says if you have a hundred more than 100 spaces that there's supposed to be 200 feet of deceleration i know the county planning
board had some concerns they don't necessarily want that i'd like to know how this board feels i'd like to know if this application actually went before the county planning board um and
got approval or they just there was an informal review and they made these comments and if they did go um when they um went and um I'm Mr muller I'm glad you asked the question about limiting
occupancy so I don't have to do that and Chief I think you asked a lot of my questions but um I do have at least at least those questions and and oh one other question has the applicant considered
any other Oh two other questions i'm sorry has the applicant considered any other um scenarios for off-site parking and if so what have they what are they what were they and why were they not
presented and the final question is if the board determines and I think they have deter determined that a parking variance is necessary what is your plan if the parking variance is not granted
that's it those are all my questions well I'm I'm trying to piece together what Mr robinson asked so I think the first question he asked was about the 22 parking spaces um I'm not sure what his exact question was but uh perhaps the use of a shuttle
bus if we thought of that i think the second question was had we looked at other uh do you you have an agreement with uh we we have a written lease with them for how long chair how long is that lease
i think it's five years plus another five-year option so it's a fairly long-term lease okay and um we haven't thought about a shuttle bus uh for Johnson Place i will tell you that if necessary and I know the chief brought
it up about uh safety at that uh intersection uh if we needed to employ additional uh police uh personnel uh to monitor that traffic signal for any pedestrians that might be crossing we're
willing to do that uh we mentioned the fact about the crossing guard but I'm not sure if that's feasible or not but you know we're amendable to employing whatever additional safety measures might be necessary thank you i I I'd like to know if from the traffic from
the police department if they think that intersection is a safe spot to put a to put an officer that's a that's a very dangerous intersection honestly I don't believe we ever got any any response from the police that there
were any issues quite frankly with respect to the project as a whole i don't recall getting I don't think we got a memo from them uh or any input from them but as I said we're certainly willing to apply and employ any additional measures for safety if necessary
that's it okay anybody else thank you thank you Mr sir go ahead good evening ladies and gentlemen of the council fellow citizens my name is Steve Nero i live at
three Sky Top Gardens apartment 24 off Ernston Road my concern is the G traffic gentleman counted the cars that were going into the firehouse ernston Road is a lot more busy than Cheesequake Road and the traffic there sometimes
you're stuck at Washington Road to Route 9 it's backed up traffic they they consider they're going to have 30 40 cars extra that they consider all the cars that are there already for each service and with cops being there to
guide people in and out it's going to cause more of a jam and if you put crossing guards that's going to slow things down more and that's my only concern just for your information so the board is not permitted to deny an
application simply because it will add traffic to an already backed up road uh especially when that's a county road um if it's a permitted use uh then that traffic uh cannot be used to uh deny an
application ma'am Carol Espazito uh Parland um my first thing I want to say is where are you from uh Parland 6 Villanova Road thank you my first thing I want to say is we keep talking about 22 parking spaces at
Mr d's it is not 22 parking spaces it is 19 went there myself and I counted them um the letter submitted by the current owner says that the usage is for Fridays between 12 and 3 however it was
testified that they can use it at any time so I just want clarification on that and we would love to see the um contract if you will also is there a written contract with the servil board of education and for how long to use their
facilities um the board asked the question of what is the number of people in the congregation and I just want to go over that what's the number of people in the congregation respond if she's making comments no that's a question what's the number of people in the congregation well we
presently have approximately 270 attendees going to the firehouse which is probably the same that we had at the old old site okay so that's 270 men how many are part of your congregation that's that's total so on Fridays at the
firehouse the women are also there and the children yes i'm not sure about that being accurate um let me see one more thing let me see here oh I've been there i live there by we've
seen um I think that's what oh the next part is when I'm looking at the um CME report and we're looking at the non-p prayer hall areas 59 spaces for the basketball court spaces for the office
staff um 53 spaces for the classrooms and 28 uh parking spaces for the assembly area that's 143 parking spaces and you have 107 I believe so that also goes into play so we keep talking about
that the prayer halls will be used during one time and all the other um spaces would be able to be used during another so all of those other spaces would require 143 parking spaces so there's also a um discrepancy in having
enough parking that's all I've got for right now anybody else have anything to say sir you're next good evening uh my name is Rick Connelly i live on Cheesequake Road in Parl uh
near the firehouse and Mr skiibble is that correct you're familiar with that firehouse you did the study there the the Madison Park yes madison Park firehouse exactly did you actually count the number of cars that were at the
firehouse while the prayer services were going on yes and what kind of car count did you get uh we counted 195 vehicles entering during a 4-hour period on Friday May
17th of last year and uh 159 vehicles over a 4-hour period on Friday afternoon on January 17th okay my apologies did you count how many were parked at any individual time i I happened to live there and I did and
if you count the number of vehicles that were in the parking lot and they they parked illegally by the way and the cars that were parked in front of the parking area and the cars that were parked on the side of the firehouse and the cars that were parked on the hill by the
little league field and the cars that were parked across the street I totaled an absolute minimum of 126 cars has anybody actually gone that well I know one of my friends did has anybody
actually gone there and physically counted cars i mean we're talking about this that would make sense would it not that's a question we we did yes we did count the cars on the dates that I indicated and all this data has been provided
previously to the board uh you know we the number of cars parked in the parking lot was board can you anybody tell me that that what that number was is it the number that you came up with is that the people in the parking lot not on the ancillary little league field across the
street that you just counted the cars that are in the lot the parking lot adjacent to the fireh hall the parking lot adjacent to the baseball field if anybody's parked illegally across the street on somebody's driveway we didn't
care no no they they were not parked illegally they directly in front of the parking lot though there's chain correct and you're not and it's all you're not supposed to park there in front of the chain and they did I mean there was eight car one two three four
the opening one two three four they counted those were counted the the cars on the site were counted you said they the illegally parked cars weren't counted that those were illegally parked cars said illegally parked cars across the street were not counted if you let me finish okay the cars on the property
we counted on both sides of the building the parking lot side and the the other parking lot by the baseball field the striping in the parking lot for the fireh hall is vague at best um but from going to the site on January 17th there
were additional parking spaces available with the new proposed site obviously we've got much better delineation of the parking and as with the other stipulations that the applicant has agreed to there would be a requirement that nobody's allowed to park on the grass outside of a strike parking space
and so on all right somewhere I got lost i still didn't get a number how many cars were parked at one time during the service i could look through my notes and give that to you it wasn't presented in that format
okay I guess I'm done guys can anybody help me out here mr chair are are we at the point where we should be swearing in members of the public or is this just questions regarding the testimony from tonight
it's kind of blending right now and um Mr sachs uh the the question is have you arrested your case to open it up to full public comment or are we still just doing questioning of the witnesses for this evening we're still doing
questioning okay so the question is we need the number from the from the parking expert and that would satisfy the gentleman at the We'll provide that may take us a few seconds or a few minutes but it's going to get that number for you
get the number for you i I know the number i counted them mr chair we I did i've been over there four or five times hang on we got one we got a question
coming up you're next mr chairman if you want to continue with the public we'll we'll provide that information so gentlemen who ma'am in the back yep can we just make sure that the public
knows that this comment period is not the public's chance to be sworn under oath to provide this so if people are coming up with comments that they if they want to present their sworn testimony at a later time as opposed to these comments where they're not sworn
because right now the questions themselves are not evidence in this hearing okay so I can ask questions not testify correct i I just want to make sure because I don't want people I I have both one or the other it doesn't matter no I just don't want to make sure people come here tonight ask questions
and think that that is testimony too they'd have to come back for the public portion where the public has sworn coming back here every night since over a year now so please okay all right my name is Elizabeth Panella i live at 10 Parkway Place the my backyard has a
small area of township land and then it's adjacent to their par property i've been coming here and listening to this testimony that I had a whole testimony on lifts and stuff and now the lifts are out so like you're
wasting people's time i have some other questions regardless if what I say or what anyone in this room says i have already been told this is a done deal and it's just going to happen regardless if I like it or not i don't know who you heard that from well
it's a consensus you know it's not true ma'am okay well good because my house is maybe 2,000 square feet my property is maybe 16th of this
property maybe a little bit more maybe 1/8 if that you're planning on building a building that is 20 times more or larger than my home for 270 people in
this congregation possibly going up to 300 and some people that you can have there at a time i want to know things like how long is this construction going to take how is it going to affect my home my yard and my quality of life with
noise dust rumbling what happens if my foundation is damaged what happens if there is a spring or something underground that is hit and water just starts going and floods the area
what happens when it rains and the sewer who already gets backed up and my neighbors have problems and the township has to come out and clean it this is just going to add to that if there's rain Ernston boarding town at the bottom
of Parkway Place floods if they have people parking and I'm very sorry not everybody's going to say "Oh I can't park here let me just go down cross bording count and park over here they're going to go through the neighborhood and
park in the streets because they already park illegally they don't care and what's to prevent them from that if anything is done wrong and we complain and they don't follow ordinances and they get penalized who's going to
enforce these things already there's been problems that I was told everything was dismissed and we are no longer allowed to talk about it i've seen over 200 cars in the yards in the back areas with people
waving red things to park them th this is not what I want and according to testimony depending on the day of the week or the time they can start services at 6:00 a.m have services during the day then use basketball
courts and stuff till 10 at night and you know people coming maybe maybe they're going to be this one but not prayer at the same time as everything else i really do not believe that this building is the right size for this
neighborhood the people that live there do not need such a large structure there regardless if it's a religious building or anything else i firmly respect everybody's right to practice their religion you have to turn that into a question this is a question and answer
you Okay so what happens when they don't follow the rules the code enforcement comes in in play the town code enforcement and what happened to code enforcements that weren't followed in the past that were just
dismissed we are no longer allowed to talk about them right because because they already broke some codes they were already brought up and and and everything was dismissed so that gives me a lot of hope that if rules are not
followed that codes are going to be enforced so ma'am you asked a couple really good questions there the first is with respect to to code enforcement and I actually asked Mr sachs this earlier this evening confirmed it to be part of the records that should the application
obtain approval um this would be part of the what we call the memorializing resolution which is that all of these operational um conditions all of the issues regarding occupancy um timing of usage parking would all be agreed to and be
part of the memorializing resolution and run with the property and ask Mr snacks to confirm that they understand that this would then be subject to code enforcement through the uh Seerville code enforcement office um and you know there's some in the law can be tricky
and can be a pain to people sometimes right so here what we're what what we'd be saying is if there were to be an approval all of those terms the applicant's agreeing to right now and they're saying we understand that this is the standard we have to meet it
there's no gray area and that if they don't and code enforcement determines there's a violation code enforcement can enact it as opposed to if you know there's a it's questionable as to well where are you parked what are you doing what's this here with this site there's very specific standards being adopted and so code enforcement
um their job I would say would be easier from a code enforcement official perspective so then you you raised another really good question about what would the impact of your property be during during construction um you know unfortunately I don't know that that any developer or or residential or
commercial property owner can ever say how long a project will take there's a lot of things that can obviously impact that right um will we have an estimated number on how long it's going to take as far as the protection of your foundation and the infrastructure
um I believe it was last fall could have been even earlier than that um there was a condition put on this that the applicant agreed to that there would be monitoring of the of the um of the vibrations and of the impact uh caused
dust sound caused during the construction process and that would be monitor monitored because other residents um and I know it wasn't you just because I remember it was a gentleman who got up and raised this um who lives near you raised this exact issue which is a a concern i'm sure all
my neighbors are concerned we have houses there i mean I've been living in this development for six decades and and this nobody cares like just just ruin my life and this issue was also raised by Mr cornell of CME in his report and so
during if this construction were to occur the applicant would have an obligation to undertake monitoring that information would be available to to the town um and that's to ensure that their work they're doing on the site is while
all construction is disturbing right i'm not no one can sit here and say that you know having people dig holes pour cement build framing right all of that's going to make noise but it they monitor it to ensure that there would not be offsite
damage as a result of what they're doing and and so should that should this application be be approved one of the requirements would be that that take that that monitoring take place and that that information reports be available and that to ensure that residents such
as you would not suffer damage to their property as a result and if we do then then we can what have repercussions well they they would they would I imagine that they would what the process is that then they stop work
orders is what's usually issued then um and it prevents work from going forward mr saxs you've already agreed that if there is any damage that you would be responsible for it well we agreed that we would perform uh an analysis of vibration uh you know as a result of any
construction that's ongoing i mean I again damage how big is the hole how deep is the hole that and how wide and that they have to build a really deep wide hole to put an underground garage again Mr chairman if I can finish yeah
go ahead well we we've agreed to uh and it was one of the requests and I think Mr pullman has has indicated that it was at one of the earlier meetings that we would do u a vibration analysis of anything anytime we're doing
construction over there to ensure that there's no damage to other houses well let me ask you a question when when they built Town Lake they had a situation like this where they were doing impact and some some of the foundations got got um cracks in them and the developer went
and fixed them if that happens I can't commit to that Mr chairman because I don't know if if there's a pre-ex again can I let me let me please finish all right i c I can't I can't commit to determining whether or not my client
caused that damage or the damage was a pre-existing problem all right i've been doing this a long time and you know that's always a gray area but certainly you know all right would you would you agree to inspecting
the immediate foundations in case there is any vibration yes in conjunction with the uh building officials in the burrow of Seville so we're not going to undertake any any construction uh that's going to cause any problems on any
adjacent properties and we'll coordinate that with burough officials which by the way would probably be standard anyway okay so all right well you guys let me know when I can not testify or I mean when I can testify and give you my real good
opinion and not ask a question yeah ma'am you're next good evening michael K 12 Vincent Street Parliament mr saxs I guess I have questions first for you and again it'll go back to a previous question I had
between commentary and uh testimony of Mr saxs during his statements what and how do we differentiate between the two um which testimony do we take to be fact
your traffic engineer or your references to the form that um use the right terminology according to your documentation provided in this
evening's packaging with the spreadsheet and the colors of the utilization and traffic cars generated by site which one um parking demand table is how it's listed what is your testimony that the
traffic demand table has accurate counts or is it your traffic engineers report of 51724 and 11725 which is fact to be entered into
evidence or testimony well I didn't I didn't give any traffic testimony all I did was give a recitation of a document and in summary form that was submitted to the board which was a day in the life of a masid
which was a quarterly breakdown and then the detailed usage of the room of the rooms and in the facility uh then we provided a spreadsheet which just indicates the expected use uh of various
rooms during various times of the day and during various days of the week so I didn't give any traffic testimony um certainly my traffic engineer has testified uh at great length at various hearings as to his findings um but I'm
I'm not sure what your question is of me is there any value of this sheet I'm looking at is there any value of it correct well I think the value of it is it's indicating what the expected demand would be for parking based upon those
various uses and that was contained and that was that was transcribed on there based upon documentation prepared by the mosque as to when they expect these rooms will be utilized and what the expected number of attendees are so all
I gave was basically just a summary of that report but you forwarded it as information not testimony well I f it it's been forwarded as an exhibit for consideration by the board although it represents numbers substantially less
than your traffic engineers report uh it represents numbers based upon uh well first of all it's based upon uh their experience uh in terms of what's happening at the firehouse and those numbers have been supported by Mr
stimmel mr stiddle's report shows essentially double the 83 daytime uh cars on a Friday afternoon uh 83 on this report versus 195 on Mr stimmel's report from May 17th
and that perhaps did not include any on street parking at the firehouse we did several iterations of the traffic study for the board's consideration we had initially counted traffic volumes at the site driveways on a Friday afternoon
when the site was in operation at 216 Ernston Road we did an analysis based on that and submitted it to the board the board asked us to include the intersection of Ernston Road and Bordontown Road we did that uh there was uh concern about the the fact that the
updated traffic counts were done when school was out of session and it was merely a function of when we received the comments and mobilized to do the traffic counts so we did updated traffic counts when school was back in session we counted the fireh hall twice we analyzed sever several different
iterations of driveway operations and intersection operations we accounted for future growth we tried to use the existing distribution between the early and late services we tried to account for the fact that we were going to provide
additional parking through the lift mechanisms which have since been revised i think that's the report that you're looking at yes we had also been asked to do an analysis for other peak times of the week because the congregation is
currently meeting at the fire hall for Friday services we've got a pretty good real world idea of how many people are going to those two services in terms of who's going to be using the basketball court on Tuesday night who's going to be taking religious education on Saturday
afternoon that's a little bit more of a estimation based on how we think the site is going to be used we still believe the Friday services are going to be the key if you look at it using the old projections the movements at the driveways are adequate if you look at it
based on the new projections which were taken from that parking table that you're referring to the operations are again going to be adequate i I think the only thing that maybe changes between the two is that because we've eliminated that lift parking there probably needs
to be a more even distribution between the first and second service but consistently throughout using the different analyses that we've been requested to do we found that the levels of service have generally been level of service D at the
driveway um no real change to the intersection of Ernston Road and Bordon Town Road and there's actual uh actually projected to be a slight improvement over that level of service D at the driveways with the police traffic directors so we've done a lot of
different scenarios and I think that's where the confusion might be coming in here what is the average time to exit the facility when you did the test at the original facility and how many cars actually left the parking lot
i haven't provided any traffic I haven't provided any testimony about that study from two years ago if you want I can go look through my notes but the site cleared relatively efficiently at the time we had a video of the site operations and uh my recollection is
that it cleared in about uh 20 minutes is that a recollection or is that your testimony it's my testimony that that's my recollection i've previously provided extensive testimony on that issue but not during tonight's hearing but not how many cars left i previously provided
extensive testimony about that but not at tonight's hearing what is the difference between delay of service level C and D um it depending on the situation it can be as much as 20 seconds or it can be as
little as a fraction of a second each of the levels levels of service provide a range and if you are right on the border of going from a C into a D it can be a very minute difference is it your testimony that there will be no bust on
property yes that's the that's the testimony from the applicant uh parking when parking lot is full police officers say you cannot park here and the first available parking spot is
Parkway Place what prevents people from parking on Parkway Place Lewis Street and Center Street and making a loop around to make another at bite at the entrance to your facility mr chairman in terms of uh parking on
residential streets we would also agree to a condition uh that uh that we will not have our attendees parking on any residential street uh in the in the vicinity uh that's certainly enforcable so it could be residents have a permit
to park there and non-residents would be ticketed that that that could be one scenario all right or or uh certainly if we agree to a condition in the resolution that there are vehicles parking on the street and they're attending the the mosque they're going
to get ticketed all right we don't want to do that that that's that's poor neighbors that that's not what my desire i don't think that's anybody's desire is to create animosity which is what that creates and that's unfortunate because it's not what the intent is it's to want to be safe get in and out of the
neighborhood safely and not get into accidents i've been hit i've lived I've driven for 40 years in and out of the neighborhood it's very difficult now is is it my understanding that testimony today offers that there will be no left
turns out of the mosque facility is that what I heard earlier that was not represented on any of the drawings there will be no left turns out of the western driveway there is I believe signage shown on the uh on the site plan and we
agreed to provide additional signage to reinforce that restriction as well as striping showing a right turn only how many parking spots do you have in the setback that the variance will request
that's a question for another witness who pays for the police what was the question who pays for the police presence that would be paid by the uh the by the uh mosque do they have authority to interact on the property
do they have authority to interact on the property in what manner you said that they were going to direct traffic in and out of the parking lots based upon density and filled parking spots well I don't know normal police protocol
but certainly they're going to uh direct traffic at the intersection and they're probably going to direct traffic that's on the in the surface parking lot as they exit which exit will they be patrolling and policing i that's again
that's up to the police department to determine mr um I have questions for you if that's possible i believe you've testified that you've designed 15 mosques in New Jersey
magnificent is this the largest no would it benefit from a walkway around the perimeter of the parking lot to facilitate people walking from Parkway Place and or through Johnson's Lane to walk i didn't get it can you repeat that
question please uh repeat that question a a walkway to not make people walk across your exit would benefit to question if it would benefit I I have an opinion but would it not benefit to have a walkway
outside of the driveways of families getting out and walking into your facility usually there I mean the drive we are showing a driveway connecting Ernston Road to the front uh door of the mosque it's center it's
center offside yeah but uh I think it's a b it's pretty standard uh design practice like usually you'll see it in malls and small areas like that's pretty nor standard practice engineering practice so I don't see any issues with that do your plantings in the planting
design on the drawings inhibit view up and down Ernston Road with traffic no moving at speed no let me just one second to make sure I got everything covered i appreciate it thank you sure i guess I do have one other
question i just correct it's your testimony that the multi-purpose room and the basketball court will not be used as prayer overflow rooms when the 321 mats are full yes we've made that commitment at prior hearings we'll make
that commitment this evening the only uh the only uh facilities that will be used for ritual activities for prayers will be in the men's uh prayer hall and in the ladies prayer hall there was testimony earlier that families attend
the 2300 square foot facility now would those people not qualify as doing other activities besides being in the prayer hall at that time and count for other uses in those other rooms that you say are not being used there will be
no other activities occurring i I've said it several times there will be no other activities occurring on site when the prayer is being conducted okay thank you very much and just I just want to add like it's our religious practice when the prayer service is happening
you're not allowed to do anything else but to come into the prayer hall and uh do your prayers it's a religious practice obligation appreciate it thank you ma'am you still want to speak and me hi Sharon Rous in Seerville i'm
just curious where in Serville oh second Street thank you um what is the purpose of the planning board is it to protect the neighborhood keep the neighborhood safe keep it What is the planning board's
Planning boards in the state of New Jersey have a couple of roles um depending on what they're being asked to do when planning boards are hearing applications they're sitting in a quasi judicial capacity meaning that they're acting almost as a judge and their job
is to evaluate applications that come before them and determine whether or not the application satisfies the criteria for approval if the applicant is seeking any sort of relief whether it's a design waiver which or some type of relief that
you've heard in this which has a lower standard of of sort of being granted I'll say that colloally council may disagree with me um if that's met they'll the board must also to determine if there's a variance
being sought whether or not the criteria for a variance is met and that involves balancing two different types of criteria positive and negative criteria that are offered by the applicant that are offered by objectors and information that's provided by fact witnesses for
everybody so the the planning board when it's hearing an application is not an advocate it's very clear it is a judicial entity in a way and its job is to evaluate facts and apply those facts to the law and determine whether or not the application should be granted and if
the application contains relief whether that relief should be granted planning boards also serve in a context of a um a more legislative capacity when they're when they're reviewing and developing a
master plan um and so there's times when they're not acting as a judge or a court but they're acting in developing long-term planning for a municipality and that's the master plan and then really the third role that a planning board plays is that a governing body
will the governing body and also once a year the zoning board will send to the planning board um uh ordinances for review and ask do these ordinances comply with our master plan do they comply with our overall scope of um land
use planning for the municipality so those are those are really the three the three roles that under New Jersey state law planning board has so nowhere under your watch do you are like the watchful eye for keeping the neighborhood safe no
well safety safety is the responsibility of the police basically what everybody is so concerned about i'll answer all your questions okay safety is the responsibility of the police department safety is the responsibility of the code enforcement department safety is the responsibility
of the governing body who's your legislature who creates and adopts ordinances this board's job is not to be an advocate this board's job is to sit in an impartial manner evaluate applications and determine whether or not the applica the applicant has met
the criteria to receive the relief that they're seeking um uh as far as uh having um affirmative responsibilities that that falls to more of the administrative part of your municipal government which are your different departments um the mayor's office and
the the governing body in this town is there any other structure that has an underground parking facility not that I know of okay the man who designed 15 mosques have you designed an underground
facility like this this large actually yes we designed it uh two levels of underground not just one where was that yeah actually we're doing one in Jersey City in Jersey City you don't know what's going to happen when you start digging that deeply into
the ground in in Seerville the whole surrounding area we're surrounded by swamps and rivers and you don't know what's going to happen to the foundations and that's the safety of people's houses
and I hear them saying they're not going to commit to anything if anything happens to anybody's property it's not what I said i I understand and by the way just so the just so the member of the public is aware we have to do geotechnical studies to determine
what's under the ground before you dig correct and that was part of your testimony before and you agreed to do all of that yes you also agreed that you'll do a a vibration test and that you you will look at the adjacent homes
before you do anything when you dig that parking garage are you going to have to pump in pilings to support it not necessarily yeah i mean usually the there are specific requirements when you have to do piling uh based on the geotechnical investigation type of the
results we get it can be just simple spread footing okay thank you you're welcome gentlemen with the glasses drew Weingarth w I N G- A R T H East Brunswick New Jersey but as I've
previously said I grew up in the parland section of Oldbridge specifically in Madison Park uh in describing the planning board you forgot to say that the planning board has class while the zoning board is classless sorry
um is the planner returning to ask the planner questions since at six at the meeting six months ago the meeting was ter was stopped at 11:00 and not everyone had the opportunity to ask the planner questions
i don't recall if that was the case but uh there is a likelihood we'll have our planner come back thank you very much i can wait for to ask planning questions for the planner i do have questions for the traffic expert we have asked this question in
the past you have said in doing your studies you have asked both the burrow of Saraveville and the township of Oldbridge if there are um ongoing projects in the area if our last meeting was six months ago when was the last
time you checked on that and what was the answer the last time I checked was prior to the last hearing uh the answer was that there were no studies which would there were no uh projects being developed in the area which would impact our site frontage or adjacent
intersection so based on what you just said you said that would impact this application correct um within this past six months the Sarah planning board has been very busy hearing
applications leeway there is impact i believe this planning board has heard possibilities or studies for the mini mall on the other side of Route 9 along Ernston Road um under possible redevelopment are you So you're you're
not aware of that i'm willing to take your word for it like I said I haven't asked if the planning board in uh uh Seerville or Old Bridge since prior to the last meeting um off of Journey Mill Road
there's a a potential uh cold storage facility warehouse going up that has also been in front of this planning board you're not familiar with that for trucks coming i mean the Before you answer I'm sorry the planning board's attorney recently said that it's
difficult especially for a county road and judging for other things coming on which I realize I I just um I guess I'm asking you're you're not aware since you asked of what I just asked we did a traffic study we contacted the boards in
old bridge and serville at that time there was nothing which would impact our analysis we've done multiple rounds of counts the other thing I'd say is that this is an impact analysis so if there's another project which is developed and
we add our traffic on top of that we're not looking at the the absolute volume of traffic we're looking at the impact of our site onto that and it's really a very limited extent to that because this is a planning board application but I don't know
that adding traffic from some of these redevelopments would would make much of a difference um you know because again it's it's the background thank you for that very much um you said from a previous
uh uh public question that you have been at the firehouse to observe how would you describe the parking lot itself at the firehouse to the right hand side where majority of the cars are parked
chaotic i'm not sure what you're what you're asking i'm sorry it's my fault for not asking the specific question are there line spaces for parking spots at the firehouse th this I had actually mentioned before there is some signs of
striping but it's very faded thank you very much um for hoping that people do not park again this is in the parland section of Oldbridge but for people who are not having the
opportunity to park in within the firehouse never mind along Cheesequake there's a road that's perpendicular to Cheesequake in Madison Park called Cornell for the record all roads in Madison Park are named after universities
the road on Long Cornell that's perpendicular to Cheesequake is directly across from the it's diagonally across from the firehouse there are people who do park on Long Cornell to attend the service at the
firehouse well again that's I'm sorry it's not a specific question are you Did you look at uh Cornell Road for posing for possible parking uh for the firehouse there there was a gentleman who came up before that had a similar question i think uh we did not look at
the parking across the street when I observed the parking at the firehouse there was still additional spaces available between the lot adjacent to the firehouse or the lot adjacent to the baseball field so there didn't seem to be a strong impetus for people to park
further away thank you very much this application um is very unique because Ernston Road is literally on the border is yes we've established it's a county road but it's unique because it's on the border of the Parland section of
Saraveville and the Parland section of Oldbridge so I really appreciate that Saraveville has a code enforcement and that they would be enforcing their rules for uh Saraveville what happens in the case when people when the mosque on
Ernston Road is built in which there's going to be possible violations for parking on the old bridge side and I can I'll be more specific this old bridge has been very nice to this mosque site whether it was St
bernardet's church or the firehouse so when they used to use uh St bernardet's church they would walk down Villanova and cross over Ernston Road that still could be so you mentioned possible crosswalks is one of the crosswalks
going to be going you mentioned the crosswalk from where uh Mr d so to speak was to cross over you know to cross over Bordontown Avenue are you taking in consideration the old bridge side where
to cross from Villanova over to Ernston Road to attend this mosque is the question if we've looked at adding a crosswalk across Ernston Road to get from Old Bridge to the site yes we had talked about it very
preliminarily when the applicant was pursuing parking off-site parking through St bernard Church for whatever reason and I don't know what that reason was that never moved ahead so we we abandoned the plan at that time to to look at that crosswalk
thank you um I think I can hold off the rest for the planner um I thank everyone for your time and Mr chairman I hope your knee is doing better it is thank you very much
lady with the hand up getting on 10:30 we're out of here at 5 of 11 i'll be pretty quick um my name is Jennifer Edwards uh 10 Vincent Street Parland Jersey um I just have a few
questions for I guess Mr saxs um on uh as someone else had also questioned um in pulling up a Google uh Google Maps overview of the site at three Johnson's Lane there i can clearly count 19 spaces
parking spots um do you wish to modify your testimony and I know the letter does state 22 spaces well our lease is for 22 spaces i'm not going to necessarily rely upon a Google
map uh I mean we may think it's pretty accurate but un unfortunately it's not we we have a commitment for 22 spaces from this particular landlord well as it was mentioned people have gone in person and counted so
I'm just saying uh you can go and count i can go and count are leases for 22 spaces so what are they going to do pull out three more spaces somewhere that don't exist well we don't Well all right i'm not going to comment on the anecdotal evidence that
you're providing okay however um and I think our traffic engineer has testified to it that we have more than adequate parking on our site to accommodate the Friday services the Johnson Lane spaces
are only for overflow parking i think it's kind of a clear um testament to the fact that we know that parking is insufficient but that's just my opinion um just a quick question uh I don't know
if this is for the planning board i don't know who would actually answer this question but um parking at that site is that um use permitted is there any kind of variance or anything required for that business
to allow or to sublet their parking lot for this use yeah i mean there are parking spaces in a parking lot um they I don't think they need a variance to lease out their
parking spaces okay thank you thank you very much you're welcome next anybody else want to speak go ahead ma'am hi Janet Cohen 8 Brandeise in Parl my
concern is parking as far as the firemen at the firehouse is there adequate spaces that they can respond to an emergency and park on Friday nights when everybody is parking at the firehouse and in the fields I usually see them park in because when they're coming to a fire they don't have time to be
searching for an open spot are there places delegated where the people from the mosque are not parking and leaving them open for them at all times uh ma'am that's not really a question for this board because the purpose of this application would be for them no longer to be worshiping at at the
firehouse um so um I think it's I I don't believe there's been any testimony from the applicant that if this application was approved that there would be continued use of the parking lot at the um firehouse is that correct
Mr saxs that's correct so the safety of the people in the parland section that the fire company is currently covering that would be a question for the fire department ma'am okay
anybody else have any questions ma'am go ahead carol Espazito six Villanova Road i just have two more questions um we keep talking about that there won't be any other activities going on during prayer services which are about 15 20 minutes
but will there be activities that are leading up to and directly after the prayer services well I think we've indicated on our chart the hours uh of those activities uh and I don't believe the gym is open
immediately afterwards i think it opens up later on a Friday so I don't think I think that's it's in the report that that's okay so that's the gym but what about the um the classrooms well the classrooms again also the classrooms also have limited uh limited days and
limited hours and I don't think they would be no they don't conflict with uh uh with the Friday prayer services i don't mean just the Friday prayer services i mean any day of the week prayer services are there activities that would be happening directly before
the prayer services or directly after the prayer services uh again the li the the the limited attendance for the weekday prayer services uh the certainly the morning service
there's no activity going on uh the uh the afternoon service uh is has got even less attendance um but again I'm not asking about attendance will there be activities prior to the prayer
services after the prayer services yes there will be activities prior and they will be after however based upon the report that was submitted the operations manual that was submitted uh they would not be interfering with patri with
attendees leaving the site uh for Friday afternoon services okay okay so my last question is um where is the Caveville masala i'm sorry uh Caveville Masala maybe I'm saying it wrong m U S A L L A
masala am I saying that right not familiar with that term can you spell it like m U S A L L A mah okay where is that it is part of the prayer area a small section usually like
the for example the morning prayers there only 15 people or 20 people in instead of opening up the entire prayer area a small section is opened up for those people to attend so in March when you're inviting people to come at 3:00
a.m on your Instagram 3:00 a.m to come pray at 3:00 a.m where were they going to first of all I don't think there's any prayer occurring uh proposed here at 3:00 a.m i mean if I'm looking at the
February 15th earliest prayer is at 6:15 i'm just going by what's on Instagram i Well I guess that's what's on Instagram is uh is you know is binding but uh it's from the majid yeah i I
don't know what you're talking about ma'am but Okay when it's testimony I'll bring the pictures of that okay thank you anybody else like to speak sir come on up who any of Hey do Mark Poor live in Madison
Park mark Poor O um I got to say I want you guys to build your mosque i really do um but where you're putting it is really wrong middle Sex County is a huge place and
you're building on the worst road they've chosen it to be the worst road in this entire Middle Sex County how many roads are in Middle Sex County come on anyway my question to you is why are you building on this site instead of going Route 35 where you all your
constituents can everybody can pull up without any hassle no traffic 50 meetings why is it a price of the lot what what what was the reason you know why do you go on Route 35 Route 9 it's plenty of room for you
and we wouldn't need all this aggravation you've upset everybody from Sville to Old Bridge you have a question yes I do why did you buy Why are you choosing that that lot in that spot i think we've answered this question
before first of all we own the property uh there had been a mosque operating there before um certainly there there was what there before there was a mosque operating there before i didn't know that yes but but not a not a 40,000
square foot huge monstrosity that doesn't belong there mr chairman I'm not sure I could really comment on Why did Why didn't you Why did you All right you own the property okay why Why didn't you maybe go to Route 9 Route 35
or so much more accessibility than Ernston Road are you kidding me build some houses there you don't need a mosque there build a mosque on Route 35 that's not This isn't a question you know you can't grandstand either you
have to ask a question i asked a question he doesn't answer it they have answers they have a They own the property they they they can seek relief to do what they want with it just because you don't like it doesn't make it right well it's not that we don't like it look how many families are upsetting over this and and for I
believe me I want you to build a mosque and you deserve to build a mosque but let's let's be reasonable here you know this is crazy look what's people are going to die on that road crossing the streets Bordon Town Avenue that's all I
got to say i mean think about it anybody else have any questions anybody else have any questions make a motion to close the public portion second all in favor i posted
opposed all right may 7th yeah Mr chairman uh I think that was a date we discussed yeah may May 7th is acceptable be don't leave because I want you to all hear this may 7th is going to be the
next if you have any questions or if you have any any exhibits you'd like to bring in and have put on the record you can be sworn in and testify next time you can come back up and and and just give your comments but we'll start at 7:30 and
we'll go go to 11 again wait wait come up come up i can't hear you is it going to be just going over the parking or is it going to be any other anything any anything that you have if
you have an exhibit that you want to place in that you get sworn in if you just have a comment we'll just take your comment okay and I'd like to thank the public on both sides of this issue it's it's it's not an easy thing to do but you've been very very cooperative and
I'd like to thank you all for doing that m Mr chairman before you convene before you leave uh I also I think I mentioned before I reserve my right to have my planner testify at the next hearing which would be very brief but at that point he certainly is subject to
questioning and then you could uh make whatever you can close so we don't have any problem we'll open up with him in the beginning thank you all right everybody knows you're on we're not going to renotice so this will be May 7th at this location yes okay okay
thank you very much for the cooperation thank you to the board can I get a motion to close to ajourn motion to close second all in favor i any opposed the eyes have it