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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=xvcUwHxnQBA

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Regular council and work study session of the Scottsdale City Council to order. Uh, city clerk Ben Lane, >> can can you take a really slow roll call, please? >> Thank you. Thank you, Mayor.

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>> Uh, Mayor Lisa Bowski, >> present. >> It's holding. >> Vice Mayor Adam Quasman. >> No. Council members Jane Deboscus >> here. >> Barry Graham >> here. >> Kathy Littlefield >> here. >> Maryann McAllen >> present.

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>> And Salange Whitehead >> here. >> City Manager Greg Kaitton >> here. >> Interim City Attorney Louis Santea >> here. >> City Treasurer Sonia Andrews >> here. >> Acting City Otterly Cluff >> here. >> And the clerk is present. Thank you, mayor. >> Thank you very much. Uh this evening we

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have Scottsdale police officers Sergeant Eric BS uh officers Kyle Sholac and Ray Wilburn and Scottsdale firefighters Joe Andrea and Ivan Bibur. And if anyone requires any assistance at all, please

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see one of the officers or firefighters or a member of the staff. Uh for the pledge of allegiance, I would like to ask Vice Mayor Adam Quasan Quasman to lead us in that. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance

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>> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much. And for the

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invocation, I'll turn it over to Councilwoman Whitehead. Thank you, Mayor. So, um, for tonight, I'm just going to ask everybody to, um, say some prayers for people around the world who are struggling in conflict and

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take a moment of silence. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the mayor's report. I'm excited to tell everyone about the downtown task force uh which officially the mayor's downtown task force which

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officially got to work uh last week with the kickoff bringing more than 30 business and property owners from Oldtown's four historic four traditional I'll use that term districts with one clear goal uh supporting the stronger

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more successful business environment throughout the downtown and oldtown areas. is the role of the task force is to collaborate, share firsthand insight, and help shape thoughtful, forward-looking recommendations that will support the area's long-term

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vitality. At at the inaugural meeting, members began meaningful discussions on several priority topics, including public safety, uh transportation and parking, walkability, branding, and the overall visitor enhancing the visitor

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experience. We also heard uh from many businesses that are having um that are looking for ways to increase traffic and uh visitorship to their individual businesses and uh to strengthen their visibility. We had our first leadership

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uh meeting with the task force chair yesterday afternoon and I'll be chairing the steering committee. Uh and I could not be more pleased with the direction we are headed. I think we'll see a lot of great ideas coming forward for consideration by the city. So, looking

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forward to that and uh keep an eye on the postings uh on scottsdale mayor.com because you'll find that the meetings will be there and available to tune into. So, if you want to offer your two cents, we invite you to do so. On that

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front, possible executive session announcement. During tonight's meeting, the council may make a motion to recess into executive session. If we need to obtain legal advice on any applicable item on the agenda, and if so, authorized by council, the executive

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session would be held immediately and will not be open to the public. However, this regular meeting would resume open to the public after following that executive session. For the meeting minutes approvals, we

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have uh consideration to approve special meeting minutes of March 3rd, 2026, executive session meeting minutes of March 3rd, 2026, and regular meeting and work study session minutes of March 3rd, 2026. Do I have a motion to approve

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those? >> So move. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> There we go. I vote I >> Oh, thank you. All right. There's been an added item. Uh number 15A was added

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to the agenda uh on April 21st, 2026. And that will require a separate vote to um to move that to the regular agenda. And that is I believe it's the contract

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for just be clear here. It's not my notes. >> Is that our contract for you? >> It is, mayor. And it's also recommended to be on consent as well. >> Yeah. Okay. And I I failed to add that it is the city attorney appointment and

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employment agreement. And uh I'll entertain a motion on this. >> So moved. >> What's What's the motion, though? >> I I move to um add 15A to the current consent agenda. I um consent agenda,

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city attorney appointment and employment agreement and request that it adopt resolution number 1366 to be added to the consent agenda. >> Second.

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>> All right. Please indicate your vote. >> I >> Mine's not working. All right. I guess it is. Okay. Moving right along. Uh the consent agenda uh this evening now that we've added one

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15A, we have items 15 1 through 15A. And do any members of the council have any questions uh or wish to have any items pulled from the consent agenda? >> Anybody? >> Mayor.

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>> Yeah. Go ahead, Councilman Graham. Thank you, mayor. Um, we I just want to ask a question about item number two, poor decisions. We had discussed last year there was kind of a

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discussion maybe a quick question for Aaron Peralt or somebody that she might designate but we had some discussions a year ago about you know performance and um any issues and I just wanted to make

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sure that things were operating copathetically. >> Who are you at? Let's bring someone up from staff. Are you wanting someone from staff to respond to that? Councilman Graham? >> Yes. Yes, please. I don't want to pull it. I just want to kind of get somebody from staff to just enter to the record

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that we're everything's going fine. And um Aaron Peralt is the the staff >> Yeah. >> designate, but she may have somebody too. >> Madame Mayor, we have a staff approaching the podium. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mayor, Council, Council Member Graham. Uh Casey Stany, senior planner, City of Scottsdale Planning and Development Services. Uh we have weekly meetings with code enforcement and our PD, and it's my understanding that we have no indication that there's been any

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any incidents at this place in the last year. >> Well, very good. Thank you for Thank you for registering that to the record. I I have a on this note. Okay. So, Councilwoman Whitehead, >> I just want to congratulate poor decisions and thank you for putting up

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with us because we had no problems before last year and we've had no problems since and I'm looking forward to spending some time there. Congratulations. >> All right. I do have some questions on item consent agenda item number one. So, I'm going to I'm going to go ahead and

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pull that. So, moving with the exclusion. I don't see any any Oh, Councilwoman Mckllen, excuse me. >> I was just going to motion to accept the consent agenda. Um items one.

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>> Oh, yeah. Two all the way through 15A. >> Second. >> Second. >> All right. Please indicate your vote. Hi. >> And and I should have uh recognized there were no speakers on any of the consent agenda items. So, Miss Lauren,

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proper Potter, am I getting that right? I think you'll speak on behalf of uh the Oasis issue. So, my concern was you're looking to expand uh to a new patio. There was no patio operational there before, I don't believe. But can you

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speak to that? That that was one question. And then I would be concerned about I don't know what hookah is, but I believe it's a smoking device. And so I would be concerned about having smoking on, you

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know, moving expanding to the patio. >> Understood. And for the record, by the way, may Mary, you were saying it correctly, but it's Lauren Proper Potter, PO Box 1833, Tempp, Arizona 85280. Uh, thank you for not making me do my presentation, by the way. Um, I do have

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one though if you're interested. So, to I agree to answer your first question, um, there. So, this is an expansion. There is not an existing patio for the proposed expansion area. That is correct. We we are proposing to add a 200 ft patio. It seats about eight

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people, we think. Um although realistically it's a pretty tight walkway, so it it may not end up being feasible, but it's part of the request before you this evening. Um and to answer your second question regarding hookah, I'm going to do my best to

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describe it as a nonhookah person. Um it is a water pipe. It can be um so how it works is you kind of have a device you have sort of pipes that come out of it and you can it's sort of a social activity right so it is smoking um you

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can have you have coals and then that goes on top of shisha which is a tobacco based product mixed with fruit typically you can also have herbal shisha that doesn't have tobacco um that is part of the existing operations at Oasis um and

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it was not part of the plan to add that onto the patio. It's the patio is just not big enough. And at the end of the day, it's a bar, so it's operating with a series 6 liquor license. Um, I hope I answered your question about what the hookah is. And we're happy to

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memorialize that there's no intent to have hookah on the patio. So, I don't know how we um articulate this or uh it's certainly not a requirement as far as I know, but I understand your uh applicant is in is agreeable to having a

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non hookah smoking patio. Is that >> absolutely yes 100% happy to agree to that if that is those the mayor's um preference and the council members we'd be more than happy to agree to that. Well, I don't know how everyone else feels, but I think that would be great if that were added to the to the

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consideration. >> Absolutely. >> So, um I see some head nods. Um but I'm going to go ahead with that uh with that exclusion to smoking on the patio or burning that those but I guess they're sold there that

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>> they so they provide the pipes the the water pipe and then the hookah would be something that the shisha you purchase. So, the tobacco product. >> Okay. but not on the patio. >> Correct. Yes. And I I drafted a stipulation if you would like um and I even made enough copies, I think, for

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everybody. So, >> uh so long as you give one of those to Louise and he can >> your new permanent city attorney. >> Oh, yeah. Congratulations. So, while we while we sing happy permanency, >> you can let him read it really fast.

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No pressure. Does he know what he's getting into? >> That's funny. Um, >> so yeah. >> Yes. Councilman Graham, >> I have a couple I have a couple questions on this item if you're if that's okay.

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>> Sure. Of course. >> Okay. So, for Miss Potter, the um Oh, >> I'll wait for her to get back to the uh the lectern. I guess my question is, so I I don't I'm

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just try I'm looking at the materials and I'm just trying to understand this patio that's being added. Is this an extension or is this a repurposing of existing square footage? Um, Council Member Graham, the area that you're seeing on the site plan, if you

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have that before you, um, that is listed as the part of the expansion, that's new proposed patio. So, that is 200 additional square feet of patio, um, which is right now a covered walkway. >> So, like, do are there any does that

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change like your parking requirements? >> Council member Graham, great question. This is my favorite part of your downtown parking ordinance. It does not trigger a new parking requirement. If it's there's an exemption for the first

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500 square ft of new patio. >> Gotcha. Um, and then do you I just I'm just struggling to see on a map like you don't have like an aerial that shows um

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cuz like behind the oasis there's like an alleyway and then there's um to the south of it, you know, there's that another alleyway that you know obvious I I don't understand I don't see where the patio was going to fit.

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It's a good question. Oh, thank you. That was lovely. Um, so it's it's actually kind of hard to see here because it's underneath this covered walkway, but if you're looking at this aerial, so you can see the outline from that prior cup that's in yellow. If you

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look directly to the My gosh, I'm so bad with directions. This is south. It's down. If you look directly to the south of that, that covered spot would be where we would add those additional patio spaces. But just to give you a sense of the scale, um I actually the

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floor plan kind of helps a little bit more to demonstrate that you can see here. So the dark gray is existing cup and then everything beyond that is that expansion. And so you can see there just to the south of the existing seating in

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that dark gray where that is an existing patio. You can only fit about like I said we think eight seats are what's going to fit here. So it's small. I mean it's definitely not a large patio. >> And then so what's what's the total patio space when you include the

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existing on the east west side with this? >> That's a great question. This is a separate suite technically, but let me see. The prior CUP was not as uh organized as I would have liked it to be in terms of explaining that.

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>> Well, it would be a separate suite, but I mean, I don't know what that patio exemption if that applies to. Wouldn't it just apply to the same entity? >> Like you guys already have patio. I mean, you're adding patio. I just want to make sure we don't trigger going beyond that. >> That's right. So, this one is sort of

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unique, council member Graham. The existing patio at the time that that cup was approved in 2016, that was a separate parcel. So, it was entitled to its own separate exemption. This piece that we're talking about now was its own

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separate parcel at that time. And so, it gets its own separate exemption. So, they're they're treated separately. Are the buildings connected through a walkway or or a door or some sort of are they part of are they are they like are

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they interiorly connected? >> It does appear that there is a connection um from one of the kitchens into the other kitchen. So they could function cohesively or they could be separately suited which is how they have

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functioned now. But the proposed use is to expand this existing use into the adjacent suite. >> May I May I city staff may I talk to Aaron Peralt or her designate about this um patio configuration?

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>> She she's here but somebody Greg is coming up. Uh, yes. Uh, Mayor Barowski and Councilman Graham. I believe the existing patio is around 400 square ft and adding this would bring the total to about 600 square feet if I'm not mistaken.

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>> So, is the first 500 square feet of patio exempt from triggering parking expansion? Well, Councilman Graham, as as uh Miss Proper Potter mentioned, this patio extension is on its own parcel. So, the

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400 square f feet that's existing was already accounted for as part of the original conditional use permit. Now that they're doing an expansion, this new 200 foot uh patio, they get the 200 foot credit for the new parcel. And that's why they're not being that's why

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their parking is not increasing. >> Uh for the for the for the portion that has the existing 400 foot patio. Is that is that using the same conditional use permit as this section? >> Councilman Graham. It's it's the

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original conditional use permit which is 7UP 2016 is yes. They're using that use permit and then this expansion will be covered under this uh amendment. You see why that's confusing for people because they're saying it's a separate it's

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separate parcels for for patio purposes but it's the same parcel for a different purpose. >> Correct. >> See why that seems contradictory right? >> Sure. >> What would be the what would if if the I mean why wouldn't other companies than just other entities say well other bars

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could say well I got a series six for this whole thing but I'm going to divide it up into different parcels and that's going to be a patio for that parcel and this one's going to be a patio for that parcel. Does that what stop them from doing that? >> I can only speculate, Councilman Graham.

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Um the um the um okay my last question is if if we looked at this the way we should I think where it's all one parcel, one entity, one one applicant, what would be the parking what would be the parking increase for

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adding for getting beyond the uh 500 foot patio exemption? Councilman Graham, if an additional parking space was required, uh, the actual ratio for bars is 200 square feet. So, they would get the first 200 square feet free. If we did not give them this 200 square foot

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free, it would generate one additional parking space, which feasibly they could include as part of their inloo request. Uh, right now they're only asking for four inl parking credits. They could up that to five, which would still be an administrative approval.

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>> Um, okay. Well, thanks, Greg. I um I appreciate I really appreciate the mayor pulling this one from consent and shining a light on it and um it's I I just kind of have doubts about maybe how we did this because maybe we just maybe we did it fine but I just don't it just

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seems like we're we're we're saying it's separate partials for one purpose but it's one partial for a different purpose and that just gives me some pause. So thank you. >> Thank you uh Councilman Graham. I agree with the points Councilman Graham just made completely. I think there's, you

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know, we had this situation with another um operator here that is moving to a different location right next door too. So maybe we need to look at how we treat these applicants that are moving or or joining forces with a bigger space. Um

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whether it's looked at like a hybrid and there's additional requirements, but I think those are all excellent points. But it sounds like the administrative approach to that is outside of the council's hands anyway. So, I'm going to leave it at that. And uh with that, I'll make a motion to approve the Oh, I'm

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sorry, Council Councilwoman Debbascus. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um Greg, I just wanted to clear up the question um of the 1863 square feet in parentheses expansion area versus the 200 square

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foot patio expansion. Um, is the 200 feet part of the 1800? Where's the 1800? >> Uh, Mayor Barowski and Councilwoman Dvasquez, the 1863rd 3 square feet is interior floor area and this is a 200 foot patio.

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>> So that's inside and then this is outside. Correct. >> Maybe moving forward we could separate the inside outside so that that's clear. That'd be great. Thank you. >> Certainly. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. With that, I'll make a motion to approve consent agenda item number one.

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with the with the modification. Excuse me. >> A second. >> All right. Please indicate your vote. There we go. >> Well, >> all right. Moving on to the regular

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agenda. Item number 16, we have a public hearing on the community development block grants, otherwise known as CDBG program fiscal year 2026 27 annual action and the allocation of the CDBG and home investment partnership funds.

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And uh with that we will have a presentation. Let's see this item ask let me go through a little more detail with this item. They are asking we are asking to slow we are soliciting excuse me testimony regarding the fis fiscal year 202627

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annual action plan for the use of159,121 in CDBG funds and $293,9 293975,000 in home funds seeking adoption of resolution 1361 16 which authorizes the city manager or

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designate uh to submit the fiscal year 2627 annual action plan to the US department of housing and urban development and use award and allocate federal CDBG and home funds for eligible

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programs and services and reprogramming of prior years remaining funds and program income in the amount of $48,730. $33 $30 execution of associated HUD certifications and contracts and etc.

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I'm going to let you take it from here. This is a long description of this item, right? You're going to you're going to shine much clearer light on it. >> Good evening, Mayor Bowski, members of the council. Um, I come before you tonight, and the federal regulations are as lengthy as what the agenda item

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looked like for clarification, but I come before you tonight um to seek public input regarding the use of our community development block grant funds um for fiscal year 2627 and to ask for an adoption of resolution 13616.

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Um so, what is an annual action plan? An annual action plan helps Scottsdale meet our goals that are currently outlined in our consolidated action plan. Back in April of 2025, I came before you and presented our consolidated action plan um that is good for the next 5 years um

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with focuses on affordable housing, public facilities and infrastructure and public services. With that, the fiscal year 2627 annual action plan um is plan year two. So last year when we stood before you, the consolidated plan was

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both the con plan as we refer it to and the annual action plan were combined into one. So this tonight is year two of the consolidated action plan. It is federally funded by our annual allocation of community development block grant funds and home investment partnership program funds. They must

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focus on three objectives to meet low and moderate income families or individuals slum and blight and urgent need. So what is required before I come before you tonight? I have it in arrows because it is a very circular process. Public

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hearings were required to have two public hearings. The first public hearing occurred in February um where we sought input um from the community regarding what kind of action items or what kind of projects they wanted us to undertake with the funding. We then did

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community or citizen participation in addition to that first public hearing through SpeakUp Scottsdale, which I'll talk to you a little bit tonight about those um input. And then we outlined those proposed activities from our public hearings from the citizen participation process and within our

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office presented it to the human services commission and we've gone full circle and we've done another we're here tonight doing another public hearing. We have also had a second public or citizen participation process that closes this evening. So here is a timeline of our annual

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action process. It starts um technically we start this in August of every year. Um as we look forward or look forward um to our annual funding process. So in February of this year, like I stated, we had our first public hearing in March.

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The Human Services Commission met both in February and March. um and reviewed and considered all of the proposals that received for public service activity specifically and one housing activity. They made their formal recommendations that are before you tonight on March

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12th. On May 15th, we're required to submit the annual action plan to HUD. That is our tenative deadline with an effective date of the annual action plan to start on July 1st. So, inside the packet tonight, we do

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have in addition to our allocation um of the $1 million that uh Mayor Barowski mentioned, we also have program income that we are allocating to CDBG projects. Program income is a gross income generated directly from a CDBG funded

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activity. The Pyute Neighborhood Center generates revenue. Buildings four and five were purchased using community development block grant funds and we currently lease that space to Hirs Academy. That rental revenue from those two buildings only comes back to the

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housing and community assistance office which we use to fund um administration staff salaries and public services. We have a second type of program income called revolving loan income. And revolving loan income generates program

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income, but this income is different and is hand is handled a little bit differently. We establish these loan funds and support specific activities and it can and as we generate this income, it stays within those activities such as our major housing rehabilitation

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program. Our it's a loan program of up to $80,000. um we do place a lean on the property once um the property is completed. If the family remains in the home for up to three years, 50% of that loan is forgiven. Um there is no paying

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back until the house is sold or they do a refinance and then 50% of the loan comes back to the city so that we can continue to rehabilitate more homes. And the second type of revolving loan income that we receive is from Belleview. As you know, the city of Scottsdale owns

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eight units um on Belleview property and that program income comes directly back into Bellev properties to maintain it and do any necessary repairs and upgrades. So, our funding allocations this year, as Mayor Bowski mentioned, we have

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$1,59,121. We are anticipating $58,730 of program income. This program income that you see here is specifically called out to HERS Academy. The revolving program income is contained within the program activities and not called out

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specifically. We have reprogrammed funds of $350,000 with a total AL allocation of 1.4 million. We're recommending to distribute these funds 1.2 2 million, which I'll talk about on the next slide, and then 233,000

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specifically toward program administration, which is our staff salaries, um our our continuing training or um software needs that we have to monitor and manage the program funds. So, our recommendations for distribution

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is public services at $160,000. We do have a cap. we are required and we cannot exceed 15% of our allocation goes to public services. Um and this year the designated um agencies our homeless shelters and supportive services along

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with a senior service social engagement project which is will be administered directly by one of our senior centers for non-public serving housing services. We have housing projects. Um we are proposing um an agreement with ability 360 that provides um rental

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rehabilitation to those families who are have disabilities to make it ADA accessible. And then our housing rehabilitation programs were major re major re major rehab um emergency repair and roof repair. Our non-public services

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or facility improvements at $43,000. And then our program administration which has a cap of 223,000 for the total of 1.4 84 million. So our home investment partnership is separate from our CDBG allocation. We

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are part of the Maricopa um home consortium and we receive these funds as a pass through. So this the federal government gives the funds to the Maricopa County and then Scottsdale receives a portion of those fundings. We anticipate receiving $293,000.

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Um, and we propose to continue our tenant based rental assistance um, program for the elderly population 62 and older who are currently Scottsdale residents. Um, 18,000 of it will be retained for administrative purposes. We currently have eight seniors enrolled,

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10 who are currently completing applications and two looking um, for apartments currently with the capacity to serve 20 seniors. A formal IGA regarding these funds will come before the mayor and council throughout um the next several months for approval and

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acceptance. So public comments, I talked a little bit about public comments. We did utilize SpeakUp Scottsdale on both occasions to garner community input and from February 12th to March 12th, which is the initial comment period on proposed activities. Um, we received um

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some general feedback and there were three items that were a top priority that I want to bring your attention to. They were tenant based rental assistance, um, water conservation, which we meet through our housing rehabilitation um, programs,

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specifically the major rehab program. We have, let me read this off because this one's not something I do every day with regards to remodeling homes. uh lowflow water faucets and toilets with hot water circulation pumps warming

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water in the pipes based on temperature. So, we're not spending a lot of time turning on the faucet, running, and waiting it for it to heat up. It automatically does it um in the pipes. And the third one is public's facilities improvements. Um and that's specifically looking at our city facilities and

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upgrading those where we need it. The second feedback period began March 27th and closes tonight. Um and that is specifically on the draft annual action plan which you have been presented tonight in your your pockets. We received no comments through Scottsdale

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feed Scottsdale or speak up Scottsdale on those. So with that I conclude my presentation and I ask for you to consider adoption of res resolution 13616. >> Councilwoman Whitehead.

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>> Thanks Mary. This is pretty exciting. Um, you know, I just have some questions just for the record because there's some misinformation out there. Uh, the Belleview, how would you describe our Belleview property? It's not a homeless shelter. How would you describe it? >> Uh, Mayor Broski, um, Councilwoman

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Whitehead, it is a normal I don't know, the word normal is relative, but it's a rental property that, >> um, anyone can rent from. >> Okay. And is it Do we offer discounts, rental discount? >> Oh, it does. I I see what question you're asking now. Um rental limits are

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determined based on by housing and urban development. So the rental limits are less for those families that are 60% or below the area median income. Um they do have to have lawful presence here in the United States in order to um lease the

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families out lease the home out and all eight units are currently full at capacity. >> Okay. So this is a what would we describe it as a um HUD uh regulated lowincome housing? >> Yes. But it's not public housing in the

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sense of public housing that is different. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. And then uh could you go over um the the u what you're doing on the water conservation and and does this there was a state program for energy

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efficiency? Are we doing any of that with uh homes? >> Mayor Barowski. Um Councilwoman Whitehead, that's a great question. Okay. Um we still work directly with Sale although they have a new name. I think it's Foundation for Senior Living at this point. Um so energy conservation

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or weatherization is still provided through them where we can't help. But with regards to the major rehabilitation, um we do do energy efficiency as well as water conservation. We're spec specifically looking at those faucets, the toilets to make sure that um they're flowing

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slowly. And then we've also added the water um pump to the heater. Um those are the specific things. We have energy audits that are done before and after. Um and then we ensure that the house, no matter its state, is brought to city code.

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>> Great. Okay. Well, thank you. That's it for now. Thank you, uh, Councilwoman McCallen. >> Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for the presentation, Mary. Um, I am a huge advocate of human services, as you well

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know, and, uh, I fully support all the programs that go through the CDBG um, process. Um, this morning I was, uh, invited by one of your human services commissioners to attend a fair housing um, symposium, and it was fascinating.

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Uh, I learned a lot. I'm just amazed at how much work you do for our residents of Scottsdale. Um, another uh thing that maybe some people are unaware of is the rental and electricity assistance, all the things that go through this program.

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I know Councilwoman Debascus and I took a tour of Vista Del Camino and um we were all enlightened to know that a lot of the rental and uh utility assistance are from the mid to north part of Scottsdale and I think people would be surprised by that. Um but I am uh

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grateful for all the work you do and to the human services commission. And with that, I move that we accept adopt resolution number 13616 to approve fiscal year 2627 annual action plan and authorize

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um the city manager or designate to submit the FY 2627 action plan to the US Department of Housing Urban Development. >> Second. >> Thank you. Please register your vote. >> Mayor, I apologize. We have to hold the

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public hearing and there's there's at least one speaker. >> We have one speaker, Roger Lori. >> We're just cooking right along so fast. I almost skipped the whole segment. Thank you. Welcome. >> Good evening, Maya. Is this on? >> Can you hear me? Yep.

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>> Okay. Good evening, Mayor and uh mayor and council members. My name is Roger Lurri. I live at 10592 East Mission Lane. And while I serve as chair of the Human Services Advisory Commission, I'm really speaking as an individual tonight

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to urge you to adopt resolution 13616, which it appears you were about to do anyway. Uh this is the annual action plan as Mary Wikovsky shared for the US Department of Housing and Urban Development funds specific to community

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development block grant and home programs. These programs are critical to ensure Scottsdale residents stay in their homes, whether seniors can live safely, and whether families in crisis have somewhere to turn.

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It's really seniors choosing between being able to pay rent or choosing medication. It's the family one unexpected bill away from losing their home. It's individuals working to rebuild their lives um and just need a

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safe place to to sleep. The impact is pervasive. These funds support emergency homelessness services, rehabilitation of repairs that keep homes safe and livable, accessibility improvements so

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seniors and residents with disabilities can remain independent. Rental assistance that prevents displacement before it happens. The home program strengthens this work by helping seniors 62 and older who are

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costbururden stay in their home and stay stable. Scottsdale has participated in CDBG funding for over 45 years. It reflects really a powerful value that we care about the community not just in good

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times but when people need it the most. So, I respectively ask you to approve this funding. Thank you for your time and for your leadership. >> Thank you, Roger. Appreciate your input. And we'll go ahead and take a vote now on this motion. All those in favor or

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against. All right, Councilman Graham. >> I Sorry, I was muted there. >> Didn't realize it. >> All right. Uh, moving on, we have that closes our I believe that closes our

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general session here and we're going to open it up for public comment. Um, which is reserved for citizens, Scottsdale citizens, business owners, and our property owners to comment on

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non-aggendaized items that are within the council's jurisdiction. No official council action can be taken on these items and speakers are limited to three minutes to address the council. If you have already indicated your interest in

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speaking, please do so with the city clerk. And we will start with Steve Sutton, followed by Melissa Kemp, Daniel Dan Isaac, and Ariela Freriedman. And Steve is making his way to the podium.

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Good evening, Honorable Lisa Barrowski, mayor of Scottsdale and fellow council members. A little over 30 years ago, I got out of the army. I took courses through California State University, Sacramento,

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on water treatment and water distribution and then took state testing to become a certified water distribution operator in the state of Oregon, not in Arizona. But water's pretty much the same there as it is here.

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And I did that for a few years. I was certified to be able to run a treatment plant and distribution system. I'm saying this because I recently attended the Scottsdale Citizen Water Academy, completed it on the 15th.

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I had a leg up on probably pretty much everybody who ever attended that in that I was already very familiar with the techniques that are used to uh handle our drinking water and our waste water. Uh many of the techniques that are being

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used in Scottsdale are absolutely state-of-the-art. In fact, I'm pretty confident in saying that we probably have the finest water department maybe in the United States from the standpoint of the technology they're employing. And from

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what I saw of the personnel down there, they're extremely professional. They did an excellent job on the on the uh presentation of materials. I have great respect for him and I think we all should show great respect for

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them. Apparently there's something wrong with the clock. I hope that's the right time. I don't know. It seems to be going all over the place right now. Um 0 122. Should I stop and >> keep going? >> Okay. All right. >> Steve, that's correct. Please keep going.

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>> Okay. Uh there is something that Oh, congratulations to the new director. Uh uh I know she has a compound last name that I'm not going to try and pronounce it. Uh but congratulations to her. There is one thing that is very upsetting to

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me uh about this whole thing with our water department and that's the disrespect being shown to our fine professionals down there. And that disrespect can be summed up very quickly in the use of the term toilet to tap,

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which is very disrespectful to people who are water professionals. And they are professionals. There's all kinds of certifications to be able to do what they're doing. And this is a term typically used by people who are ignorant of the water cycle

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or it's used by politicians as a form of demagoguery to inflame the ignorance and passions of people for political reasons. And I would hope that the use of that term toilet to tap never is used again by anybody sitting at the dis

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because it truly does display those two qualities. I want to thank everybody down there at the water department for the outstanding job they did in presenting their materials. >> Thank you, Steve.

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Next, we have Melissa Kemp. I don't think I see her. And followed by Dan Isac and uh then Jason Alexander. Dan Isaac, address on record. Mayor, thank you for the opportunity to speak.

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Um, first topic is an exhortation to the sane members of our council to stop putting up with the bad behavior of some of their colleagues. From the beginning of this council, we started with a potential violation of the open meeting law to plan a strategy

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for the first meeting. We had Barry Graham found guilty of violating the ethics code. We had Jan Debascus along with Barry and Adam make a false criminal complaint against the mayor. And in her recorded

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statements to the investigators pretty much admitted it was an attempt to remove the mayor. That's also the recording where Jan refers because she was channeling her teenage inner mean girl to refer to the mayor as a

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We then have the key >> point of order. >> Um, could the uh uh city attorney please let the uh let the speaker know that um and and make sure he has his time that's protected and make the make sure this

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that decorum is protected on the council. >> Mayor, members of the council, Mr. Aishek, we've had this discussion before and um you you were nice enough in the in the past not to use foul language. We we'd ask you to respect our rules of

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decorum and perhaps refer to it in some different way. >> Um and I respect your request, but under the court ruling in the circuit ninth circuit court, I do not have to comply with that request. And if Mr. Quasman is so concerned with that language, he

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should publicly condemn Jan's use of it against the mayor. Until he does so, I respectfully ask him to zip it. So, the king of bad behavior is Barry Graham. And the fact that he lies

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without repercussion is concerning. Whether he says that there were 27,000 residents who signed the petition, it was only 19,000 who were actually certified. that's off by a factor of 30%. Whether he says that the Axon is

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going to use 12,000 single family homes worth of water. Whether he says that the state legislature denied our right to vote. No, it was the fanatic 4 who prevented us from voting which then led to state overreach.

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Or his discussion of the parking garage. It was never on the ballot. That location was not in the pamphlet. and then this ridiculous claim of dark money and a backroom plot to turn that into an apartment building. It's already

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city-owned. There is not a single individual who could do that. So, it's just lies. So, I'm asking the members of our council, when people say these things, when they do these things, call them out. Try to get it on the agenda.

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Change our ethics. And every time the fanatic 4 vetos an agenda item, bring it to the attention. Send it to your constituents. It is unacceptable and silence is condoning their behavior.

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Second topic. Adam, you fre you recently made reference to concern with public safety. I'd like to know where that concern for public safety was when you and the Fanatic 4

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got rid of a roundabout that was rated A in safety in exchange for a signalized intersection that is rated D in safety. So, Adam, either you don't really care about public safety or you only care

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about some people's public safety. I don't know whether you're being disingenuous, hypocritical, or really deplorable in thinking some life is worth more than another. Thank you. >> Thank you, Dan.

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>> At the end or should or is that okay? >> Quick response. >> You're welcome to do that. That is certainly acceptable. I do you want to wait until after or you want to do that right now? >> It would be ahead. 15 seconds. 15 seconds. >> This is good. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um I love being called the Fantastic Four. That's fanta. That's great. And I like to make more of

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four. I think we should have a a super seven of as many uh votes as possible. But I want to remind everybody um here and at home that I'm proud alongside uh uh Council Member Dubosquez to have been awarded the champion of public safety

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award by POSA, our police officers uh uh this this past year. And I know that there will be more council members in the mayor will be able to receive that award as well and rooting for them. uh in the future. So, thank you. >> Thank you. All right, Jason Alexander

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will wrap up this public speaker section. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh Jason Alexander, address on record. And could I get the overhead to zoom in on my phone here? I've got some stuff I'd like to show.

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Okay, that ought to do. Thank you. >> Point of order. Point of order. >> I believe Mr. uh Mr. City uh Mr. City Attorney, I believe that live video is and we've changed the procedure here video. Jason, can you stop that for a minute?

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>> Can you stop that so we can have count the vice mayor Clausman uh repeat his >> Thank you, madam. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Um I believe u Mr. parliamentarian that we have that we have ceased live video as part of the council me as part of the

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non-aggendaized comments for council meetings and and while this is on the Elmo this clearly is a way to get around the uh the the video production that that we ch that the rule change implied >> vice mayor and vice um I'm sorry mayor

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and vice mayor members of the council vice mayor raises an interesting question we cease the use of video through our own system. Um and and you're correct in the sense we did not anticipate what Mr. Alexander is doing

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with the um Elmo and um the we don't have a specific rule against it at at this point. I move that I move to overrule the parliamentarian and say that the vote that we took to change the rules implied that no video at all was

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part of the uh was what we wanted and allowing the Elmo um was for static media only um and and call for a vote on that. >> Mr. Santella, when that rule was passed, it was specifically oriented to prevent

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copyright or trademark violations or obscenities. Let's >> none of that has happened here. And with Adam objecting within about 5 seconds of me playing the video, he certainly has no basis to claim either of those issues. >> You know, the parliamentarian has taken

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his position. Um so, you know, >> it it doesn't have to be agendaized. I mean, it's just as good as you saying it. I I don't you know I really don't we

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hear from people all the time. I don't have a problem with >> mayor the booth the booth is telling us that we could be violating YouTube's rules by allowing him to play this music. >> It's on YouTube. >> Uh this video was given to me by the

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person who wrote our we are on YouTube right now. It's the council meeting. So we may be violating their their rules by allowing them to play. This was produced under the GPL, general public license. It is an open-source creation and it I was given permission by the person who wrote it to use it.

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>> Well, I'm going to defer to Luis. He's our attorney, not he's now giving us legal advice. So, I'm going to defer to uh Louise. I don't, you know, if we need to tweak the the rules whatsoever, um we can do that. But Luis, can you give us a

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final answer on this? So, at at this point, in the interest of caution, because the booth who's responsible for broadcasting the show via you YouTube is telling um me via the city clerk that it could violate the rules, I'm going to ask that it not be

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played. >> Okay, Jason, that's a separate issue than what uh Vice Mayor Quasman brought up. Um, but you know, let's let's table it for now and you can do your research and we can have further that discussion and you're

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free to come back in in the event that there's a different interpretation or we can resolve that. >> So I I I apologize I couldn't hear Mr. Santella very well. Are we saying that something that was given to me by the person with their permission who created

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it and has already been broadcast across social media with her permission? I am not allowed to show here even though the council rules of proceeding don't specifically mention that. >> You know >> what we're saying Mr. Alexander is that we've been informed by the people that are responsible for broadcasting this on

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YouTube. They are concerned that by playing that whether you have permission or not may violate the YouTube rules. So we don't want to risk violating those rules. So what we're asking you to do in the interest of caution is not to play it tonight. We can research it and like the mayor said, you can research it and

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you can play it at the next council meeting if it if we determine the rules are not being violated. That's the issue, sir. >> Uh I understand that, but I'm a little confused given the tight collaboration between YouTube, Facebook, Instagram,

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Tik Tok, the frequent sharing across all these platforms, how something that was created already exists on them could be a violation of any YouTube broadcast. Point of order. We have a ruling by the by the parliamentarian. >> You know, in all due respect, Vice

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Mayor, uh, our city attorney was having a dialogue, so I don't think that's a point of order um, an appropriate point of order. >> I mean, Mr. Sentella, I guess I would ask, could you cite YouTube's rules so that I can research it? You >> You've heard me, Mr. Alexander. You've heard what I've said that the booth

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informed us and in the interest of caution, I'm asking you to hold off playing this to next time so we can be on the right page. You can be on the right page. Um, you can say what you need to say. >> Excuse me. Excuse me, Luis. You've made your point. I don't I think we're to

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Vice Mayor's point. I think we're done with this conversation. So, I don't think it's the end of the conversation. Jason, let's just table it for now. Did you want to use the rest of your time? I would love to use the rest of my time. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. I think what we're seeing

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here is an example of peevish, immature, petulent behavior from Mr. Quasman. And I'm sure if Mr. Graham was here, he would be point of ordering, point of ordering, point of ordering alongside Mr. Quasman because they are afraid of criticism. They have done everything

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possible to stifle public comment to stifle criticisms. I want to present the facts here. This is a self-created video that is by someone who created it themselves, created the music, created the graphics, gave me explicit

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permission to do it, has already shared this video by choice on various social media channels. There is nothing I am producing here or showing here that is not already in the public domain. But Mr. Quasman is having a a moment of

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fragility about accepting criticism. And certainly we've seen that's nothing new for Adam. For him to come out five seconds into the video, make an objection based on a rule that doesn't exist. There is nothing to prevent videos from being played on the overhead

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here and then accept Mr. Santiela's ruling which is actually not directed at Mr. Quasman's point of order. And while I respect Mr. Santella's ruling, I want to show here that Mr. Quasman has attempted to leverage a peevish immature complaint

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and sensitivity to criticism to turn this into a different issue. Mr. Quasman, since the moment I walked in, you have been on your device. Now, I have two teenage daughters and you seem to be texting more than they do. And whether you are texting your wife to

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pick up groceries or whether you're checking your Only Fans account or whether you're placing bets, it is disrespectful to the people. >> Point of order. >> Madame Mayor, I just would kindly ask um

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if we can >> Sorry. Go ahead, Councilman Graham. >> We we Thank you, Mayor. We we you know everybody on this council um has agreed to rules of procedure and that includes avoiding indecorous language and our rules of procedure ask

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that partic ask that participants um in uh follow those same rules and so for the citizen to be made casting such despicable aspersions to uh >> what's the point of order I'm sorry Councilman Graham can you just

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articulate the point of order so we can consider The point of the point of order, mayor, is if we is my request that we can try to enforce the um uh the rule that we all agreed on about about ourselves and members of the public,

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trying to avoid inddecorous language, trying to use uh titles and that, you know, just these these these speculative offensive assertions uh cast against one of our colleagues is just I think uncalled for. So, thank you.

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I'm not sure what the point of order exactly was except for you were offended by his his comment. Um, with that, Jason, please continue and try to walk the line of not offending. >> Thank you. >> Please. The quorum.

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>> Getting back to my teenage daughters and their friends, they seem to spend less time on their devices than Mr. Quasman does. And the offense is whether or not Mr. Quasman is engaged in city business or whether or not Mr. Quasman is engaged in personal business. It is

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fundamentally disrespectful and unprofessional to disregard the meeting that is taking place. It betrays the trust of the voters to sit up there and not pay them the respect of paying complete attention to the proceedings.

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Mr. Quasman, this would not stand in a professional work environment. People turn their devices off. They put their devices down. Now, if a text comes in from a family member, that's an exception. But you're not acting under exceptions, sir. You are on your device

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constantly every meeting, and it's shameful. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mayor Bowski. >> Thank you. All right, that concludes the public. Oh, Melissa Kemp is here. Would you like to speak?

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All right, welcome. Thank you for that. Sorry, I was running late, but I'm glad to be here and thank you for calling me out again. Uh, Melissa Kemp, McCormack Ranch, address on record. Two weeks ago, I spoke about conflicts of interest and I made a simple point that conflicts of

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interest are normal. uh they happen in business, they happen in families, they happen in public life. There's no shame in having a conflict of interest. The only failure, the only place to really feel shame is if you can't recognize and then appropriately manage conflicts of interest. So conflicts of interest

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standards are not just about what is technically legal. They're principle-based. They ask what a reasonable person, a careful public official would do to protect the public confidence, not just what is merely permissible under a

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narrow reading of a rule. Now, consider the structure in front of us that I tried to point out last week. And the defense was that the council was asked and they said no rule was technically um technically in violation. Well, Bob

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Littlefield leads TA. Council member Kathy Littlefield has participated in Axon related votes. TA has been involved in advocacy and litigation related to Axon. So, she is term limited this year and her husband is running for her seat. Those are just

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structural facts. When household political advocacy and active litigation interest interests intersect with your official decision-making, reasonable people can see that this raises public trust questions even if no

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rule has technically been violated. We heard that the city attorney advised there was no legal conflict, but I just want to point out legal clearance is a floor. Judgment is the standard that we as citizens would expect and deserve from

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our elected council members. Recently, the city itself cited the importance of avoiding even the appearance of impropriy when evaluating a member of the mayor's staff. That appearance of impropriety alone was cited as reason and evidence toward

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dismissal. If that standard is appropriate for city staff, why on earth would a lesser standard be appropriate for elected council members? Why do we reduce the standard to not against the rules? Conflict of interest management is not

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about proving someone would vote another way because their husband told them to or not to. It's about recognizing that the public interest and the public trust and the public confidence depends on avoiding situations that call into

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question your ability to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Thank you for letting me speak late. >> Thank you. No problem, Melissa. Appreciate it. All right, that concludes public comment on non-ag agendaized items and uh we are going to move right

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along to item number 17. Oh, citizens petitions. We do have a citizens petition and that is just had your name Mark. I just had your name. There we go. Mark Wren, right? SBC

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Global in case anyone's trying to reach him. Mark, we're going to direct you over here to the new new podium. Oops. Thank you. Good evening, Madame Mayor and council

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members and city of Scottsdale staff. My naim is Mark Wrense and for the record I am the author of the petition which I submitted last Friday. Um and in less than a week I obtained

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125 signatures in support of this petition. Those signatures were also handed off to your clerk. Uh and everyone I never encountered anybody who did not support my petition. Um,

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this petition is a a little more mundane topic. Um, it's about water. Um, and, uh, by way of qualification, I was the director of regulatory affairs

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for the association of California water agencies more for more than five years. uh that association represented all the public water agencies in California which made up 90% of the water that was distributed agriculturally

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uh residentially etc throughout the state of California. Anyways, um it's a it's without a doubt everybody in this room probably knows uh that Scottdale like the the rest of the uh south

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southwest region is in a water supply crisis. Uh I can honestly tell you being through several droughts in California, this one is significant at 27 years and going uh the drought that we are

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experiencing now. Scottdale is also overly reliant on a sole source of water and that's the Colorado River. My understanding is approximately 70% of wa Scottsdale's

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annual water supply comes from the Colorado River and the Colorado River starting all the way up in Colorado and actually Wyoming uh is in crisis. The Federal Bureau of Reclamation is considering uh major cuts to the supply

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of water that moves down from uh Lake Pal to Lake me, which becomes our source and many below us source of water. Uh they're looking at 1.48 million acre feet.

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Uh just to put that in perspective, uh one acre foot can be the equivalent of the amount of water consumed by one to three residents depending on their uh residences, not residents residences uh

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uh in the uh depending on its location. here. I would say it's probably closer to the one to then than than the three because of the dry the dry desert. Scottsdale currently has shifting gear. Scottsdale currently has

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a strategic water plan. They also have the knowledge and infrastructure tools and skilled staff to address this challenge. Um, I had the Mr. >> Your your time is up, but why don't you

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I'll give you a couple a little bit of time here to wrap up. >> If I could just have one more minute at the discretion of the mayor. >> Uh, sure. But let's try to get to the request. We have your petition. >> What the petition requests? >> Perfect.

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>> Okay. Uh, this petition requests that the council direct the city manager and staff to continue to implement Scottsdale's previously approved water strategic plan. This a requested action requests that

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you reinstate water conservation and operations and staff positions uh eliminated in the preliminary uh 2026 27 capital improvements budget. And it also

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encourages you to uh restore funding for some very success one very successful project, the advanced purified water recycling project and allow that to expand and to look towards funding of uh

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infrastructure improvements to increase uh water storage capacity at Bartlett Dam. Sorry I went a little over time, but the issue is pretty timely and and pretty significant to all of us. >> It's a complicated topic. So, thank you very much for that and no problem at

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all. And so, with that, we have received the petition and we have three action choices, action actions we can direct the city manager to uh or or charter officer to agendaize the petition for further discussion. and

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direct the city manager or other charter officers to officer to investigate the matter and prepare a written response or take no action. Uh let me see if I have any questions. Councilwoman Whitehead. >> Uh well, I guess I would like to thank the petitioner for I guess your public

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service in water and then also for this petition. Yeah, water is something the city is uh our most important uh obligation is to deliver water no matter what. and public discussions help public trust and public understanding of the

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issue. So with that, I'll I move to direct the city manager or other responsible charter officers to agendaize the petition for further discussion so that the public can can hear um the staff and the um members of the council discuss this issue and how we're going to move forward and make

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sure water comes out of your taps. Thank you. >> I'll second that motion. So, I'd like to make an alternate motion. I think you raised excellent points and I had a discussion with the city manager uh very recently about

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scheduling putting on the agenda and um if someone else isn't going to, I will. Um I think we should have a more robust discussion about water and where we stand. So, in the interest of time and not um setting this for uh a meeting,

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upcoming meeting, I would like to um expand what you've already touched on into a discussion work study or what have you. Uh that involves all of the moving parts and components of Scottsdale's water uh present and

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future. And so with that, my alternate motion is that the city manager please uh res direct the city manager to please um respond specifically to the items raised in this petition and uh we can

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move forward with uh ideally getting a water meeting discussion on the on the council agenda. >> Second. >> So it's a work study session. I just didn't want to clarify. Well, we haven't got there yet, but the alternate motion discusses having the city manager uh

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respond to this petitioner on these specific issues. And I've already said that um I'm uh looking to get a work study on the agenda. So, go ahead, Councilwoman. >> Second. >> Whitehead. Thank you. So, um I want

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clarification. Um are is this motion direct number one directing the city manager other responsible charter officer to agendaize the petition for further discussion or just not? >> My alternate motion was to number two. >> Number two. Okay. I think that this

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council has a really uh for whether for the right reasons or the wrong reasons bad habit of not allowing public discussion. >> Point of order. Point of order. >> I Okay. I I think this is a mistake. >> Uh, Vice Mayor Quasman,

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>> and I know it was already seconded, but I I think that what the mayor was just trying to say was that we are going to discuss all the topics that the petition was talking about and even broaden them further, bigger than just what the petition is and have a more holistic approach in terms of really addressing

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the issue at hand. So, it achieves all the goals of the p of the petition and the petitioner and more so. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Hold on. Hold on. Vice Mayor Quasman, I think Councilwoman uh DBosquez, did you have something to say on your second? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. Just nothing to say. Okay. Uh last word here on >> Yes. I want to be very clear. What we are voting on is to not have a public discussion with a promise of perhaps a future public discussion. I want to be very clear about that.

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>> Uh Councilwoman McCallen. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, as part of number two, directing the city manager to discuss this, maybe the city manager would be encouraged, I would agree with uh, Councilwoman Whitehead to make it a public forum, maybe report back, but

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then also bring it to a council agenda or a report by the water department so the public knows exactly where we stand because you did just rearrange the water department. Some people may not be aware of that. It might be a way to inform the public of actually what you have done

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recently and then we can discuss what we need to do further. >> You're not having a public meeting. >> I'm just saying that I'm encouraging the city manager to have a public meeting. >> Okay. >> Madam, >> one step at a time. Councilwoman Dvasquez is next up to the mic. And if

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we could keep the interruptions to a minimum, that would be helpful. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think in the fervor of campaigning, Councilwoman Whitehead has um lost the tenor of the conversation. Um what the mayor has suggested is more robust than what

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Councilwoman Whitehead is requesting. Um she is not only requesting a petition response to the petitioner, but also that we have an open public meeting that discusses the items in here as well as the discussion of water generally. So,

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this is going to more than satisfy the petitioner's request. Um, and I think it's going to be very, very helpful for the community. So, I appreciate the mayor making this suggestion. I appreciate that Councilwoman Whitehead is very passionate about this topic, but she must recommend uh recognize that

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she's not the only person who is passionate about water in Scottsdale. And this is not a campaign issue. This is a very serious issue for every single homeowner, every single resident of the city of Scottsdale. And so I would urge her to set her campaign ambitions aside

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and to focus on what the mayor actually requested which is very robust and will be wonderful for every resident and I appreciate the city manager being open to doing this and to educating our residents. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Okay, last word. >> Yes, I would like a last word. Clearly

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some people are thinking about politics and Solange Whitehead, your council woman, is not one of them. I have spent eight years up here protecting your future water security. So the uh request was to agendaize a public meeting for a

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water discussion. I respect that the mayor is um suggested or made an alternate motion that has the support of my colleagues not to have a public meeting with the possibility of a future public meeting. And I reject the

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suggestion that this is a more robust uh path because there's no guaranteed public discussion and I sure hope we get there but the budget is coming before us very quickly and we are not following we are not funding the uh projects that are

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in the council approved strategic plan. So with that I will respectfully vote against the um the motion presented by the mayor. Thank you, >> Madame Mayor. >> Thank you, Mr. WZ. Your time was concluded and that the public your petition

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>> as the petitioner, I ask uh your attorney and your city manager, Mr. >> if I can respond to this discussion about action. >> The answer is no. I'm sorry. And we thank you very much for your petition. It was very well written and very well

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presented and uh the discussion has been had. And uh in terms of putting this on a mayor and council item, even if I have to do that to get it on the next agenda item or excuse me, next agenda,

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foreseeable agenda, I will do that on the next regular immediately. So, and to the point of budget discussions, I'm not sure who made that point, but uh I think it was uh city manager. This is

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definitely budget season and some of these issues might be t times sensitive. So, um, you know, sooner rather than later, I think it's on everybody's mind. So, with that, let's vote on the alternate motion. >> Mayor, >> I'm sorry, Councilman Graham. >> Mayor, may may I make some comments?

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>> Yes. And I didn't mean to overlook your your >> Okay. No, I just because I'm not there, I can't press the request button to speak. Um, first I have a question for the parliamentarian. Um, when we have citizen petitions, uh, Louise, we could we're allowed to have discussions like

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this. Is that correct? >> The the mayor and members of the council and Councilman Graham, the way it's agendaized, each member of the council has one opportunity to speak about the petition. Um, there aren't supposed to

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be multiple um, uh, weigh-ins. So, okay, like I said, only one one opportunity. That's the way it's currently agendaized. >> Okay. Okay. So, that that's what mayor you mentioned. Uh you you know earlier I was trying to call point of order because I was simply trying to uphold

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the rules of procedure that we agreed to. Um and so I uh wanted to make sure that everything was in order for the conversation. I also want to uh second Councilwoman uh Dowska's comments about,

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you know, we this is a very serious conversation. This is a conversation that has real world impacts. This is a conversation that requires a serious a seriousness um probably second to almost none that

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we do in the city except for public safety. And this is not should not be a flippant campaign season type discussion. So, I totally agree with Councilwoman Debbowskis and I see council member uh

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Vice Mayor Quasman nodding his head. So, I appreciate that. Um, I also agree with the mayor and I agree with Councilwoman Littlefield that we should have a discussion about this broader and in a timely fashion.

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And one thing else I want to point out to my colleagues is that Councilwoman Whitehead made several references and she's been doing this recently where she's referring to the strategic water plan. And that's what happens when you with these plans is that the plan this

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council did not pass the water plan to my knowledge. A a water plan was passed by a prior council and everything that she says is seen the prism of that plan passed by a prior council. Not this one. it wasn't passed by you, but she's using it

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against you. And so I am just thinking uh extemporaneously that maybe we need to take a look at that water plan. Um because we need to get serious about our water security, our water portfolio and that also relevant to the domains of

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development and many other areas. And for her to keep weaponizing the water plan against her colleagues, I think is it feels um it feels uh improper. So with that, I uh will be voting for the

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alternate motion. Thank you. >> Thank you. And with that, we conclude and please indicate your vote. >> All right. >> Oh, okay. Everyone's voted. Has everyone voted? I don't see Councilwoman Whitehead up there. I think you're

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broke. >> You're broken. So, you're She's a no. All right. Uh, now that concludes uh our agenda items. We have a work study session which uh allows a less formal

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setting for mayor and council to discuss specific topics with each other and city staff and provide an opportunity uh for staff to re receive direction. We received how many and no public comment speakers, right? No. Is that a

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yes? No. All right. It's a no. >> No. No. No comments. >> It's a no. All right. And therefore, I'm going to invite, let's see, who's gonna speak on the city boards? That's you, Ben Lane, right? >> Yeah. Thank you, mayor. I'm gonna kick

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it off. Uh I think uh Luis and Greg might might join in. >> Okay. And this topic involves city boards and commission processes and city code sections. So, go right ahead. >> Uh thank you, mayor. uh mayor and members of the council. Uh tonight

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we're um seeking feedback on some of our policies, code sections, and also board composition uh for our boards and commissions. Uh what we're hoping to do is get specific feedback from you all on several topics and then take that feedback and possibly

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come back at future meetings with some possible code revisions um if the council so desires. So with that, the the first topic that we want to discuss with you tonight is the annual report presentations. As you all may remember, um last year we

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tried something new that I think was was wellreceived. Uh but 18 of our boards and commissions presented over a several month period to the council and um they basically presented highlights of their accomplishments and also uh current

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items they're working on and future items. And so this was really an opportunity to highlight the work that our boards and commissions are doing and um and also to have some interaction between the boards and the council. So with that these were the 18 boards

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and commissions that presented uh to the council. Uh and um basically uh these boards uh fell in three major categories. We had our land use and building review bodies such as the board of adjustment, the planning commission,

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and the historic preservation commission. We also had human human and social service bodies such as the human services advisory commission and the veterans advisory commission. And then we had our parks and neighborhood and infrastructure bodies. So for example,

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the environmental advisory commission and the parks and reccks commission. So 18 total boards presented to you all. We then did have several boards that did not present and these were mainly uh boards that were either quasi independent um such as the industrial

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development authority or boards that had a personnel focus such as our personnel board and our judicial employments advisory board. Uh those boards did not present to the council. So just very briefly about the timeline

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for this process. Um the presentations started in July of last year. Um about three boards presented to the council at each meeting and then we wrapped up in September uh at the end of September and then as we do every year um all those

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reports were presented to the council in October for their acceptance. And so with that, what we were hoping to do is get some feedback from the council related to the annual report presentations. And so the first kind of bit of feedback we were hoping to get is

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for future presentations whether you possibly wanted to discontinue this practice, continue it on an annual basis or possibly move it to every other year. And with that, it would be basically the non-election years. Um, so that would be

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basically an an opportunity for one or more new council members to get a good understanding of our boards earlier in their tenure or maybe some other time increment such as, you know, maybe every 3 to four years or whatever you all see fit. But we're hoping for some feedback

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on that initially as the first talking point. >> Uh, Councilwoman, >> you want to Okay, go right ahead. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I think it's very important with the amount of hours that our citizens, our

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residents put in to volunteer, that would become staff time if we had to pay them to do all the work they did. Um, we should take the time to listen to them, whether it's annually or bianually. Maybe we do half the commissions at one point of the year and half the commissions at another point of the

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year, but they should be able to speak to us annually about what they do on our behalf because we could not do it without them. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman Mckllen. I agree with uh what she what Councilwoman McCllen just said. I think uh at at a

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minimum annually I think that annually I think that would be helpful and maybe that's when they're developing their agenda or some somewhere about that time or I don't know each board le liaison could probably pick the the right timing for

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the the boards. Councilwoman Littlefield. >> Thank you mayor. I agree with councilwoman McCullen also. Um, I think that it's important that this council understand and hear what the various boards and commissions are discussing

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and what their conclusions are. If we are not going to listen to them, there's no point in having them. We need to be aware of what they say, what they decide, also how they how they come to those conclusions. And so I think it's very important that we have a review of

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what they have decided, what they have concluded in their discussions. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman Whitehead. >> Yeah, I also agree and I just want to point out like just two different ribbon cutings I went to in the last couple of weeks um involved the preservation of

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two historic buildings that were set to be demolished in both cases and it was our historic um commissioners that came forward and identified them as you know his having historic value and um so these commissions are very important. I

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want to hear from them. >> Thank you, Vice Mayor Quasma. >> I'm just just on the I I don't disagree with my colleagues at all and so I don't I don't believe we should change the annual nature of it, but just in terms of real execution, here's what I could tell you as a freshman council member.

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It's really hard when we have these like big votes and it's a late night and then all of a sudden we have three hours of boards and commissions. I recommend that we do this as a special meeting twice a year where we just start at three or two o'clock and we are able to hear from

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everybody and the public isn't just exhausted by the time they hear this because I agree these are important. People work hard. They're volunteers. They're part of our citizenry. They deserve our full attention. And and frankly, as a as a voting as a voting

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member, I'm more focused beforehand to prep for a vote that's going to come on as opposed to hearing it, and I'm exhausted by the time I hear it. So, with that, I recommend we do twice a year, one in the spring, one in the win, one in the fall, and just and go through. It's 18 boards, nine and nine,

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and we just and and we have board day. >> I'd second that motion. >> Mayor. Yes. Oh, Mr. uh Councilman Graham like Yes, >> if I can. Yeah, thank you, Mayor. If I

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can chime in. Um so, the um boards and commissions is a really it's a really big deal to me and it's a big deal to all of us, not just me. Um I've served on three commissions myself. I served on them for over 10 years. I probably

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served I may have served on boards and commissions more than everybody else on the on the council combined. Um maybe not, but because I know that I know that Maryanne has served a lot. Okay, that's probably not true. But um I really have

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gotten to I just want to kind of I kind of want to sort of set the tone for this conversation about boards and commissions because you know the ordinance the city ordinance says that um they serve at the pleasure of the

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city council. I just want to remind my colleagues of that. And so when I was a commissioner, my goal was not to, you know, you receive the topics and you deliberate and you discuss them and you hear the public and it's good for the public to be involved and and and it's

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good for transparency, but it's ultimately solely for the assistance of the city council and the because the reason why is because the city council is the only set of members who are accountable

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uh uh to the to the voters. Um I also want to remind my colleagues, they know this, but when we do city commissions just because I was on three of them, it even though we we are getting we are getting

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a lot of very valuable volunteer time from our citizens and we should never take that for granted. We are very blessed with how many citizens offer to serve and the amount of skill that they offer us and bring to the table. Uh but we also need to remember that

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significant staff time does go into everything the commissions does as far as planning meetings. All the AV audio um uh coordination that goes on, meeting minutes, meeting agendas, um every single meeting item has to have

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a presentation prepared for it. And we're also taking our um the staff members that we pay um away from their jobs to do this. Again, it's this is I just want to remind it's we shouldn't take our commissioners for granted, but we we should also remember kind of the

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constraints we're dealing with. Um and um so every commissioner serves at our pleasure. So I just want to remind my colleagues because sometimes we get there's confusion about what the point of the commissions is and commissions is

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to help the members of the city government who are accountable to the public to do their job. Uh so I and so just about this issue I personally I think we could do it every other year for each of these. I think that that that would be satisfactory because you

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kind of get sort of like a once a session type thing. Um, I did also like Vice Mayor Quasman's idea. So, thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you. And with that, I don't see any other speakers. Uh, on this item, we have a motion to do it annually and at a

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at a unique time that is not combined with a regular or special uh meeting. So, with that, please indicate your vote. Thank you. Okay, proceed right along. >> Going crazy.

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>> Everyone's is a little off tonight. >> Councilman Graham. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> Is that an I? Yes. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, the agenda placement, I think we have direction on that in terms of moving it to a special meeting. So,

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we'll do that. So, we'll go to the next slide. Um so in terms of the some other things to consider are the presentation length. Um we did ask uh the boards last year to keep it around five minutes. Um just seeing if you all are still good

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with that time length or if you would like another time. And then also it we've already gotten direction on the number of presentations. So we'll look to do the nine presentations. And then um finally the presentation topics. Um, we focus on again key accomplishments

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and current and future items. If you'd like to stick with those topics or possibly add some others, but any feedback would be appreciated. >> Thank you, Ben. I personally think five minutes is too short. Uh, I know I think some many of them went over five minutes

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anyway, which is probably necessary. I would be fine with 10 minutes. I think that's a fair >> that's good. >> It's an hour and a half >> give or take. >> I mean twice a year. It's like Yeah.

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Some will have less, some will have, you know. >> All right. So with that, I'll make a motion on that. But you want us to go through all these number of presentations per meeting? No, I think we could do two times a year. >> Yeah, we we you provided direction on that one here. Yeah. And then the

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presentation topics if you all are good with those. >> Yeah, that makes sense. So, do you need a motion for all those? No, you got it. >> So, so these were the and I apologize. I realize this is a little bit hard to see. Um, this uh these were the boards

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that presented. Um there was a request uh about possibly excluding the quasi judicial boards which is the board of adjustment and the building advisory board of appeals from the process. Um and Luis, I don't know if you want to speak a little bit more to that.

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>> Mayor, members of the council, the request to exclude uh the board of adjustment and Baba is their quasi judicial and um the concern would be just simply that since they're supposed to um make decisions on uh various

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things and Baba's building board of appeals and BOA is board of adjustment. Uh since their decisions they're supposed to be neutral, uh the thought was to um not have them report because that could potentially um affect their

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objectivity. Uh we don't have strong feelings on it one way or another, but that that was the concern. >> Councilman Woman Debascus. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, maybe the word report should be different, but um,

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discuss, talk about where they're at, what they're doing. Um, have an opportunity to give us a presentation on what they've been doing rather than reporting. Um, but I think our the sentiment that you're hearing from council is that we like to have the interaction. We like for them to have an

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opportunity to tell us something if they think we need to know something. um but also um for the public to also be able to hear uh what's going on with these boards so that we can just be a better educated community alto together. So maybe it's just a different format for

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those presentations and then remind us why it's a different format. Please no other speakers on this one. >> Okay, very good. And then these were the boards that were excluded from the process. And again, these are

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either quasi independent boards such as the industrial development authority or our boards that deal with personnel issues such as the personnel board and the judicial appointments advisory board. I will say for the budget review commission, um they do we we excluded

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them last year because they weren't formed till 2025. Um but they also already present to the council in May. Um so they're already giving a presentation to the council. Um but if you all would like to include any of these boards in the process moving

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forward, uh that would be helpful to know. >> Councilwoman Whitehead. >> Yeah, I think the uh Industrial Development Authority, if they have any projects, I know they've been struggling for years to have projects, but it's a very interesting board and um the the

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potential. I've had a number of property owners ask me about um working with the IDA to get some develop some projects done. So, I I'd like to hear from that that board or commission, whatever they

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are authority uh with the others. Thanks. >> I I think that's a great idea. And this is a little off topic. I'd also like to see them interact with the economic development uh subcommittee of the council and food for thought. I don't I

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forget who's on. Is that you? No, it's you. Oh, yeah. I think that's a great place for them to to uh start before they meet with the council. But I agree with Councilwoman um Whitehead on that. So, that's pretty much the only one that

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I would and and by the way, they're dormant to uh Councilwoman Whiteheads. So if they're dormant, I I think they should still come honestly because could spawn some ideas. >> So we'll we'll add the IDA to the presentation list as well then. Thank

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you. Can we Is there a Oh, Madame Mayor. Um, is there a way to just in terms of I think this might be something that we would agendaize just for a a an exec sesh review of everything and kind of

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and see how and see activities of boards. I just that might be something we want to >> presentation. It's at the end of this presentation. I'm just going to let that go. Withdraw my comment. So, thank you all very much for the feedback on the annual report

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presentations. That was extremely helpful. Um, the next kind of section to go over is possible code changes. And so, the first one involves the use of electronic devices. Uh I'm not going to read this uh verbatim, but this is basically this is a code section that

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applies to our boards and commissions that basically does not allow them uh to utilize electronic devices from the dis um during their meetings. Uh the council had a similar prohibition in their council rules uh which was uh struck uh

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from the council rules in January of 2025. And so we just wanted feedback from the council about whether to retain this section in the code to possibly modify it, uh, repeal it, or take some type of other action.

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>> I'll start. This falls squarely under the category of do as I say, not as I do. So I think if the rules apply to us, they they should reply equally to the boards and commissions. And as I stated when we uh took this up, I think if you

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um if you're misbehaving on the dis that will come to haunt you. So we're responsible adults. We assume they are too. So I would say let's make let's get rid of that. most of us. Kathy, Councilwoman

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Littlefield says, uh, okay, no more questions on that. Is that good with everybody? Anyone have an objection to that? >> Okay, thank you. Um, the next one, uh, this was a, uh, mayor and council item from Councilman Graham um, related to

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bylaws. So, our current process related to bylaws is that the boards uh it's in their various sections in their in their code sections that they have the ability to establish their own bylaws and then to modify those bylaws. Um there was a

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request from Councilman Graham for the council to consider uh possibly um having the council approve new bylaws and also uh amendments to bylaws. And so wanted to get some feedback on that. uh whether you would like to keep it with the at with the boards and commissions

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or possibly have the council approve either new bylaws andor amended bylaws or or some type of other action. >> Councilwoman Mckllen. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um I guess this my question is for the city attorney. In

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the past, what has been the rules for the commissions and their bylaws? So, mayor, members of the council, right now, each pretty much each commission has an ordinance section that authorizes them to pass their own bylaws. So, under this proposal, um if the council decided

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that the council had to authorize the bylaws, we would have to make amendments to the to the ordinance. Um and there there various things that the council could do where they propose um the bylaw changes and then the council has to basically ratify them. uh the council

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could keep it as same the same way it is now and leave the bylaw changes to each uh commissioner board. Um so those are a couple different possibilities. >> So uh again my question for you city attorney is so we have never done this

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before. The city council as a sitting body has never micromanaged the commissions in this manner. >> The the as far as I know the council has never required that the bylaws be approved at the council level. >> Thank you. Councilwoman Whitehead.

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>> Yeah, I think I'll follow up on that. I'm Have there been any issues ever associated with these uh bylaws approved by and I also we've all I think a lot of us have served on commissions.

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Have there been issues caused by this practice? consulting with my colleague Mr. Lane um we're not of aware of particular issues um that that we're dealing with currently. >> Okay. So we'd be fixing something that's

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not broken. I you know I I guess you know these commissions are pretty varied and there may be reasons that come up that might make these volunteer professionals want to adjust their

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bylaws and as long as we are not having any problems it just seems like a lot of bureaucracy for no particular benefit. So, so yeah. Okay. Thank you for the answer. Uh, city manager wants to chime in.

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>> Thank you, madam mayor. I would just add to the discussion that uh as referenced earlier by council members, it's really the boards and commissions that advise city council. And so from my perspective, it makes sense to have modifications and bylaws roll up in the

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spirit of transparency to city council. uh as far as a consent or something like that. We talk a lot about transparency and I I think this is is a way to ensure that boards and commissions when they're making bylaw modifications that city council is aware and I'll call it a

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ratification if you will. Thank you, Madame Mayor. >> Thank you, uh, Councilwoman Littlefield. And then I have a question about what you just said. Yeah, I I'm looking at this and I thought about it quite a bit, but it seems to me that if it's not

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broken, we shouldn't fix it. So, I think I would leave it as it is right now until a problem occurs that we need to look at um and to fix. Uh as far as I know, boards and commissions are doing just fine. They're doing exactly what they're supposed to do and uh we should

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leave them to it. Thank you. So, I just want to chime in on both the comments that were made and what you said. Uh, city manager. I'm I'm really surprised we don't have a uniform template for bylaws. I mean, that seems like what we should be doing. I don't

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even understand like if it's not broke, it's not If it's not broke, why fix it? Well, it's not broke until you you don't know it's broke until it's broke, right? And then then what? Right. Um, and I'm not it's not a solution or a solution looking for a problem. I mean, in almost

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every universe that is structured like this, there's a template or a pretty standard uh bylaw structure. So, I'm super surprised that that isn't the case. So, I would say we're appropriate unless there's some unique situation. I can't think of a board or commission

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that wouldn't benefit from the same set of bylaws that, you know, we would have approved by the council. So, unless I'm missing something. Oh, uh, Vice Mayor Quasman. No, I I can't uh agree with you more. I mean, this this is a we listen,

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the council's the people. The council's the people. We we are um we are grateful for everybody who volunteers to be on these commissions, but the count but the people should make the bylaws here. Let's just let's standardize this across the board. No surprises. And if we need

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to change it, then we change it and provide we could write bylaws and and standardize it. that allows temporary changes in a single meeting if necessary to provide flexibility in case in case something really needs to happen. I'll

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give you an example. Like for example, we we have a council rule of needing a it's not a majority vote of the of the um of not the caucus, what's the word of the of the role. We don't have a majority vote of the role. We have a

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majority vote of the council to to pass something here. And that might not always be the case if there are members of a um uh members of a commission that with members falling off because you know they they just don't want to be on the commission anymore or something

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happens, right? And if they're stuck with a with a bylaw that says that they've put themselves in in a situation where they can't make a vote because there's not enough members, but they can't change a bylaw because they can't make a vote because there's not enough members, then they're stuck, right? So

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let's I just want to create an outlet for success and I understand that like we want to give independence. This is not hamstringing uh uh commissions. Let's let's um let's

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remember that we are the people that the that that this body is the people and the commissions are there to help us. Let's make it easy for them provide a standardized bylaws and with the ability and in that standardized bylaws give them the ability to maneuver on a

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temporary basis if something comes up to allow them to do what they need to do and then um that then we would approve uh and we would approve an amendment. So, with that, I'm I move to approve um um the mayor's uh the mayor's suggestion

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where we standardize or the council will standardize bylaws um um with appropriate uh with appropriate ability for the um for independent uh for independent amendments made by made by the commission to best suit them.

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second. And uh I just want to speak to my second really quick as a as a side effect of this. It'll probably relieve them of the obligation to even worry about it. I think that's a you know unforeseen benefit to this approach.

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Councilwoman Mckllen, >> um I just want to clarify the motion. Uh Vice Mayor Quasman, are you asking that the city council make the bylaws or that the city clerk make the bylaws along with the city attorney and that we ratify what those bylaws are? Yeah, that the l the latter the the the latter the

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city clerk and the city attorney would make the bylaw would write the bylaws and present to that to the council. The council would ratify it then then those would be applied. So, yep. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you for allowing me to uh ill illustrate explain.

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>> All right. Great questions. Uh did you want to speak, Councilwoman? No. Littlefield. Okay, we're ready to vote. Please cast your vote. >> Uh oh, >> mayor. >> Yes, Councilman. >> I know. I know this is one of the disabil this is one of the disabilities of not being there. I

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>> I acknowledge that. So, um just so I can clarify the motion um because I think uh vice the vice mayor articulated well. You're saying that the city clerk would um kind of look at it and then and then bring stuff to before the council to

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give a thumbs up or down. Madame Mayor, Madame Mayor, just to answer um uh Council Member Graham, just No, no. The city mayor, the city manager and I'm sorry, the city attorney and the city clerk will present a standardized bylaws for all commissions to be

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ratified by us um to present for all that will apply to all commissions. If commissions need to make an or suggest an amendment, those amendments can be suggested and then brought forth here for any rule change just like we would have a rule change here for us.

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>> Okay. So, we would we would approve any amendments the city council would approve it ratify. >> Yeah. So, when I when I brought this Okay. So, when I brought this up, it was um this this is just the kind of thing that this is I would see any up or down vote from the council being very

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preuncter. It's really just a probably a consent agenda type uh approval. But like the mayor said, I mean this takes there's this takes burden off of the commissions and boards from having to go

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and make these decisions. The reason I brought this up was because again the boards and commissions serve the city council and they serve that body because that body is accountable to the people. Um you have different rules for

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different commissions. Some of them have different rules for how they remove a chair. Um there were we there were there was an issue in the recent past where there were only I think four or five members present and three of five of them or four or five of I think it was

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four members present and three or four of them or something like that. It wasn't a majority voted for something that that they said was a pass. um was approved. And obviously that wouldn't that doesn't comport with

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the way the city council operates. And so it's um it's the kind of thing where it's just simply um a standardization and taking the burden off the uh commissions and boards from uh having to uh find um sort of

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MacGyver solutions to their own problems. So, I will support the vice mayor's motion as I understand it. >> Okay. Thank you, Councilman Graham. Uh, so we've you've cast your vote. Now, everyone else, please cast your vote.

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>> Well, it registered. Okay, there we go. So, and I think we have one final item there on >> uh tourism TDC. >> Uh mayor, we we actually have a a handful of more things. >> Oh, we do? >> Yeah. Sorry. Uh oh, there we go. Okay.

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>> Um so, uh this next one, uh honorable mayor and counsel, it's I'm seeking like initial feedback on this um to basically seeking the ability to dive further into it. Uh but it relates to actually something uh Councilman Graham just brought up

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related to the affirmative vote count. Um so in our charter basically it states that the council for most of its motions requires four affirmative votes. There are there are a handful of of items that require a supermajority but for most

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things it requires four affirmative votes. So, just as a quick example, if the council if a member was sick on the council at a for a meeting and then a member declared a conflict of interest and so the council was down to five members, if something if something was

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uh uh I'm going to put this in quotes, approved on a 3-2 vote, it would actually fail. Um because the our charter, which is our constitution, says that uh basically it's a majority of the entire council is required to pass something. So it it takes four

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affirmative votes for us to pass for the council to pass something. Um there is no similar provision for all boards and commissions. Um there is there is one board and commission that I found. It's a human relations commission. They actually have something in their code

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section that does say that it does require four affirmative votes to pass something. Uh but they're the only ones that I could find that has that. Um, with all that being said, um, I will say that there might be some exceptions

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needed for certain boards. So, for example, our planning commission or our planning related boards, we we want them to declare conf we want all our board members when they have a conflict to declare a conflict of interest, but it it seems to happen more often on the planning related boards. And so there

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there may be instances where two members on a the planning commission declare a conflict and they're down to five members and the item passes on would pass on a 3 to2 vote. um that might never change.

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And um so I think there might be some exceptions put in for some of our boards that are basically making recommendations to the council to allow them to pass something with less than four members, but that would be the exception rather than the rule. Madam

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Mayor, >> Vice Mayor, >> can we put this I think all these solutions can be put in the rule package that is going to be presented to the council for and and with recommendations of of different ordinance changes accordingly as a as a sweet as a suite of rule

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changes for the boards and commission. >> I I don't know. I think you're trying to get the answers right here. So, I just I want to speak to this real quick and and hold that thought. I see what you're saying, but my concern about changing this to the same high standard that we

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use here, which is good, is these are volunteers that are, you know, doing business. And I'd hate to have um a real stalling impact or chilling effect on doing anything or getting anything through because, you know, there's a

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frequency of of issues. So, I don't know if I like this one. Um, do anyone want to chime in? I think we're almost done with these. We only have two more left, so we might as well get hash them out, >> Mayor. >> Uh, hold on. We have someone on the board here, Councilman Graham.

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Councilman Councilwoman McCallen. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just want to clarify uh with the city clerk and the um city attorney. So, and I understand what you were saying, mayor, but I'm thinking what Ben, uh, the city clerk is

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saying is that the planning commission would not be able to do their job if we didn't allow this rule change. Um because a lot of them I was under the impression what you're

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saying is if so the planning commission has six members and if two of them have to recuse themselves then um and someone's absent then that only leaves three people. Um so they wouldn't be able to take a vote or they wouldn't be able to accomplish it. Is that correct?

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Or >> the idea would be for for most of our boards that they would need four affirmative votes, there would be a handful of boards that would be exempted from the process mainly probably the starting

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with some of the planning related boards um because they they seem to have recusals or conflicts more than others. So, they could pass items on a 3-2 vote. Um, but maybe not for the

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I'm just throwing these out there. Maybe not for the Veterans Advisory Commission. Maybe we say no, they need four affirmative votes to pass something or it's already in the human relations commission um ordinance um and some of those other boards, those non planning

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related boards to have them need four affirmative votes to pass something. >> And I understand that because most of the planning commissioners are experts in their field and some of them actually work on contracts that be come before the commission. That's why they have to recuse themselves. So there's a higher

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rate of recusal. So, thank you for the clarification. >> So, maybe a compromise would be to uh not require the four vote rule to apply to boards and commissions, but highlight

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that when that information comes before the council, how many people voted for it? I think that could be a good compromise. But I I am concerned that there's probably more more people that there's more times than at least on this

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body that all seven people are not there. So that would really cause problems I think. But on the other hand, that would put pressure on people to show up. So, you know, I'm kind of >> one way or the other. I don't I don't know. >> I don't know that honestly I don't know

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that it it really is critical to make the change, but uh go ahead, Councilwoman Dascus. I was just going to um go on your your thought that it it is important that they come and and they provide their feedback um and then

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requiring four votes like what we have in order for something to pass and to come to us that might require them to sit down and work it out and really come to a a solution that that a lot of that they can all get on board with. Um, and so it might be an opportunity to gain

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greater consensus. And then when it comes to us and it was uh, you know, six six people voted on this, it was a 4 to2, that tells us something different, you know, or it was a five people voted on us and it was a four to one, then that tells us that they really felt strongly about it. Um, and so it might

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create more opportunities for consensus building. >> Yeah, just to parlay off that, I think I can see it both ways. it could be a benefit and it could be a hindrance. So with that, I don't know that I have a a definite I think it could improve

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attendance and maybe if we're going to require that the next thought that occurs to me is you know we require people to attend and if they're not going to be be subject to replacement. What's the number of misses? Mayor, Mayor, it's uh if a board member

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misses three meetings in a row or four meetings in a six-month period, they're subject to removal by the council. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Is our current policy. >> It's pretty lenient. All right. Thank you. I don't have anything else to say, but I'm really

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good with either way. I can see both sides of it, honestly. Madam Madame Mayor, how about as just the direction for the for the the charter officers, we just can we give the the chance to for Louise and and Ben

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to find a great solution and present it to us? >> That's great. >> I wish we could do that more. Can't we do that more often? That was brilliant. Thank thank you for the direction. Um okay. So

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um I believe yeah this is the last major topic for tonight and I in all honest thank you very much for all the direction. Um so uh this was uh a request uh from um Councilwoman Duboscus and I think I think another council member may brought this up. I apologize.

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Um but this is relates to the tourism development commission membership. Uh right now the way the membership is laid out for the tourism development commission is that it's a minimum of four sc so it's seven members. Four of the members are Scottsdale hotel years

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and again um for all our boards and commissions you have to be a Scottsdale resident. Uh but for this particular body in addition to being a Scottsdale resident you have to work at a Scottsdale hotel. Um and then we do have

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one member that's recommended by uh experience Scottsdale um to the council and then the balance which is uh two other members um from other elements of the tourism industry. So that's the makeup of the board right now and just wanted to get council feedback on

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whether to to keep those designations to possibly modify them or or do something else. Thank you >> Councilwoman McCallen. >> Thank you mayor. Um, I will state for public record that I do sit on the board of directors for experience Scottsdale.

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I do attend the TDC meetings. I have for over a year. Um, the expertise that the hotel years bring to the TDC is beyond measure. Um, I understand that we have citizens that might be interested in it, but their

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expertise is what we value um on this commission because they are deciding almost a million dollars worth of bed taxes and and greater uh for events that come to Scottsdale. And their expertise

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is um beyond. And uh at these monthly meetings, I know the city manager is also on the board of directors of Experience Scottsdale and knows that the information that happens in these meetings um is way beyond just the average citizen who may be interested in

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tourism or have an events background. Um but the need and this has always been the standard from what I understand. We have not ever had just um residents of interest, but we have residents that are experts and I would like to continue

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that we have the same standard that we've always had. Just my input. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Whitehead. >> Yeah. So, it has been a challenge. I agree. I want hotel years. I mean, the this is a commission that does require

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people in the industry. Um, the challenge has always been Scottsdale Hotel, which I think is more important than Scottsdale resident, but we're required, they're required to be a resident and working for a Scottsdale hotel. Did they just say that? I I sorry

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it's getting late. Just remind me. >> Uh, yes. Uh, Council Whitehead, it they are required to be a Scottsdale resident and work at a Scottsdale hotel. >> And I don't think there's a way to allow I mean, I don't know if there's flexibility there if that makes any sense. I'm just I know that that has

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been the challenge is finding a Scottsdale hotel year that also resides in Scottsdale. And a lot of times what we've done is reappointed someone who' already served six years. I mean that's over my years that's what I've seen. I you know I'd like to keep hotel years on there but

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>> city attorney >> uh mayor and members of the council some flexibility that you could consider too is obviously the residencies required by the city charter but what happens sometimes is is you have a someone that works at a particular hotel they leave

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that job um but their expertise certainly is is still there within with within them. So instead of requiring them to work at a particular hotel, perhaps you have um the the experience that they have the background in it um

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versus actually being currently employed. That's that's just a suggestion. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Dasquez. >> Oh, thank you, Madame Mayor. Um this is an issue that was brought to my attention um by the past chair of the

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commission. and she said it's just very very difficult to find um enough hotel years and it's been one of the biggest challenges that she had as chair and so her recommendation was that we consider um changing not removing all hotel years

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but just changing the number so maybe it's a minimum of three um and we can have one that could be a hotelier or a member of the tourism industry um not eliminating it entirely but making just providing a little bit more flexibility

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so that if we don't have someone on deck right away or as the city attorney suggests someone who was a hotel year but who's who's now um you know working in another space within tourism um so that we still retain the expertise but we also have a little bit more

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flexibility so we can find more folks within the community. That was my thought. >> Thank you Vice Mayor Klasman. Yeah, this is another thing that could be in the rules that um could be presented to us by from the city staff and it could say easily some words suggested of expertise

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is required in this field. Scots as is Scottsdale residency expertise can include current or former behavior and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. But this could easily be part of that suite. So that's what I'm for. I actually think that um loosening it up a

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little bit because for Scottsdale hotel years and that are residents of Scottsdale is like a needle in a hay stack. So that's a very limited criteria. So I think we should loosen it

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up a little bit. I would love to talk to the chair of the TDC that's current um and also experience Scottsdale to get some feedback while you bring the the rule changes back to us. So that's my that would be my direction. I I think I

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agree with that that we should loosen it up a little bit. Councilwoman Littlefield. >> Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I agree with the C uh council comments that have been made here. I think we need to loosen it up and I think uh Councilwoman Dvascus

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and U has the right idea. It could be past or present experience in this area. Um I think we do need experience, people that know what they're doing when they're on this commission, but I think that it doesn't have to be this tight.

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Loosening it up, I think, would be much better and give us more variety and more options in our choices. Thank you. And I think that's the direction. Uh, and also, oh, I'm sorry, Councilman Graham, if I may just say one

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one more word. Um, and we all know we are the ones that approve them, so you know, we get to interview them and it's it's helpful if we can have more options, too. Go ahead, Councilman Graham. >> Um, just for clarity, tonight is a work study where we're kind of giving head

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nods, but we're going to bring this back for a final vote. Is that right? uh based on our direction in this work study, we are uh going to get a draft of the revisions. Okay. >> Or or Okay. No revisions. Yeah.

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>> Um can um can you can someone bring it back up on the screen the um this this subject matter that we're discussing? Okay. The membership cell consists of representatives of four Scottsdale hotel

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years, one member of the SC uh CVB and yeah, so this is this is extremely uh restrictive and like the mayor said, like

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Councilwoman Dowskus and Littlefield and Quasman said, it's finding Scottsdale residents who are active hotel years is very difficult. It should not we we need to loosen this up and they I mean you could

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just be instead of a more four scao hotel years I mean it can just be again I'm I I agree with my colleagues. Let's let's let's loosen it up. Let's be more flexible. So thank you. >> Thank you. All right. That concludes the council comments. So I think that was

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the last one. Is was that the last one? One more >> mayor. So these are that concludes the main feedback for tonight. Um these were just uh future looking items for possibly future discussion. Um just to see if you all would like us to explore

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these things. So the first one is um if you all wanted us to look at any of the boards and commissions to make sure that they have the right areas of expertise for their particular boards. Um I think there was some feedback about possibly looking at some of the planning related

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boards to make sure that we had the correct number of like individuals with architectural background or development background and so forth. Um so that was one thing we were looking to do. Um also um if you want us to look at how we

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compare to our peer cities in terms of the total number of boards and commissions that we have as compared to our peer cities. And then um finally um if there were any um if you all want us to bring back more information about

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boards or specific member categories that are difficult to recruit. So for example the building advisory board of appeals. As you all know, we've had a very hard time recruiting for that board. Um, additionally, on the judicial appointments advisory board, we actually

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have a slot there that is a member of the Scottsdale bar. So, for that particular slot, you have to be a Scottsdale resident. You have to be a member of the Arizona bar and then you have to be a member of the Scottsdale bar, which is completely voluntary and

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and it's hard to recruit for that position. So, if you all want us to look at more at stuff like that and bring it back to you, we we could do that. Thank you, >> Vice Mayor Crosman. >> Well, I Well, I I think it's great. I'm 100% for it. Look at that. Get back to us because there are many attorneys that

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I know in Scottsdale that are not members of the Scottsdale Bar. >> Well, they should be. >> I agree with that. I I should be I want to apologize to the Scottsdale Bar. I am not currently a member, but we'll change that. That's a Thank you for that expensive uh statement for from from you, Madame Mayor. I think you should

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join it. I'm serious. >> I will join. >> All right. Uh I just want to add that I would like you to look at I'm going to raise the topic I haven't raised in at least a year and three months. Direct appointments. I think we should take a

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serious look at that. Um and whether or not we take a serious look. I would like to see if any of the peer cities do that and kind of get a little synopsis of what that looks like. I think that would address a lot of these issues, too.

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Thank you. All right. I don't see any other comments. Are we done? >> Move to adjourn. >> We done. Move to adjourn. Gladly. Move to adjourn. Oh, council reports. Council reports. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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>> All right. Councilwoman McCallen has a report. >> Thank you, Mayor. Sorry, everyone. Um, this week I attended numerous activities, but the one I want to point out more than anything is Scottsdale leadership. Um, the city of Scottsdale

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has had a longstanding relationship with Scottsdale leadership. As a matter of fact, Scottsdale leadership was founded by the first female mayor of Scottsdale, Sam Campana. Um and the city has long um been the biggest supporter because the city is

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the biggest benefactor of Scottsdale leadership. Um that being said, since 2008 um 83 projects, they're called PLIFFs project um pay it forward um have occurred in the city of Scottsdale, which is more than 66,000

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volunteer hours um that would have been costly to the city. um but they're city residents uh who volunteer their time. Just this past weekend, I attended five um events. I attended the family resource center uh

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playground which was the benefactor of that was Pyute Neighborhood Center. They received a new playground. These are all um items that the city would have had to have paid for, but these Scottsdale leadership u members have done the time

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and put the effort in to have these things um donated. I attended the Walter Hive um which is a new photography and computer lab that uh cost more than almost $100,000 that um the city did not have to pay

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for. Um, I attended horsehelp where they received a new garden area which has eight tables and seating for 40 um for a therapeutic horse ranch. Um, that's in the very north part of Scottsdale. um Cattle Track uh art artist collective

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which is just down the street um which the city is a benefactor of um toured over 1600 residents went through um the cattle tracks uh tours this past weekend and that was all volunteers um from

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Scottsdale leadership and the community that ran those tours to bring people to that um uh nonprofit in Scottsdale. And the final one was Lexis Ranch, which is a therapeutic course ranch right off of

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Cactus and 73rd Street. And um that was started by a Scottsdale resident whose daughter um is now an adult with developmental disabilities. And so it is now home to uh a garden for these adults

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with developmental disabilities. So these five items um again, I attended all of them because I'm a past alumni. um of the Scottsdale leadership. I went through it in 1998. I was class 12 in the city of Scottsdale. Again, paid for

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it. I was a full-time employee. It allowed me during work hours to attend because it was that important. And I appreciate um the city manager and your uh dedication to Scottsdale leadership. I know um our former police chief uh

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Jeff I he was his uh mentor when he went through. our current police chief went through it. Our um our two uh deputy city managers went through it. Uh so it is a valuable resource for our city and I just wanted to give kudos to um our

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city manager in the city of Scottsdale along with uh Scottsdale leadership. Thank you for the time. >> Thank you, Councilwoman Whitehead. >> Okay. Well, there there are so much going on in the city. Um, I want to thank the Veterans Commission for their Imprints of Honor event that we had this

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past weekend. The best way to teach history is to connect those who made the history with youth, and that's what imprints of honor does. And it's also a great way to uh prevent repeating some of the worst parts of history. So, that was lovely. It included world a World

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War II veteran all the way up to present day. It was uh very nice. Also, shout out to the parks department. They had 130 people that did cycle the arts. That's where you bike. It's kind of the opposite of tour to Scottsdale. You don't go very far and you go pretty slowly, but you see a lot of art and it

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was fantastic. And then three of us attended the volunteer lunch because as most of us know, we have more volunteers than employees. And as a fellow volunteer, I got to uh speak. So, and we all got to serve food because uh anyway, it was pretty fun. So, that's thanks to

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the human services for that. Thank you. And finally, Councilwoman Dascus. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um, we had an opportunity on Saturday to highlight a wonderful grant that the city of Scottsdale received from Senator Karen

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Senator Karen Warner. She contacted me about a year ago and said she would love to reach out and and help do something for the city of Scottsdale. So, the city manager and I got together and we presented her with a variety of options. And uh as a mom who raised kids and went

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to the train park with her boys, uh what she chose was to provide a $100,000 grant to the McCormick Stillman Railroad Park. Um particularly when we were uh on on the roundhouse project with the splash pad, we wanted to provide some adaptive use playground equipment, but

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the budget just wasn't there. And so Senator Wernner stepped in and um we have received this the funds from the state. We are in the process of um putting that playground together. And so we're expecting to having the ribbon cutting in the fall. So I hope everyone has an opportunity to come join us for that ribbon cutting. But really a huge

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shout out to Senator Warner uh for that $100,000 grant to the city of Scottsdale. Um and then uh Councilman Littlefield and I are continuing with our office hours. So our next office hours will be on May 4th from 4 to 6:00 p.m. as well as May 18 from 4 to 6 p.m.

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We look forward to seeing you there. Thank you. >> Thank you. and Councilwoman Littlefield. >> Yeah, just to add to what uh Councilwoman Debbacus just said, the office hours are here in the KA right downstairs in front and you just walk in

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the door and sign in and come and talk to us about something that is concerning to you regarding yourself and the city of Scottsdale. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, without further ado, motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. Second.

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>> Thank you everybody. Here you go.