Okay. So, for tonight, um what is a listening session? Um the listening session is a structured public meeting designed to gather input, perspective, and feedback directly from residents. The purpose is for tonight is just to listen. Um understand what is on your mind, communicate, and understand the
priorities and ideas without debate. There are no decisions that are going to be made tonight. So, we're trying to provide elected officials data to make decisions with clarity and firmness. So, what is tonight not? We're It's not a debate. It's not a Q&A. We're not here
to um exchange any questions or answers. It's really you're in the driver's seat tonight. We want to hear from you and what's on your mind. So, um no decisions will be made tonight. It's no voting and there's no advocating on our part. We're just here to document what what what
you're thinking. So, the goal is to hear directly from you. How do you feel regarding the annexation? What are the benefits, challenges, and opportunities? What matters most to you? We want to gather your feedback for the annexation impact study to guide future decisions um and discussions with local officials. We just want to help them make the best
decision possible because they work for you and we want to make sure that we gather the right information. Um and then the rules, these are really important and I know that it goes without saying, but we'll say them anyway.
Um everyone's going to have a chance to speak. I will say we're supposed to end at 7:30 tonight. Um I'm going to give everyone 3 minutes to speak which doesn't feel like a lot. It's, you know, there's a lot of people in the room and it really matters for if you want to speak that you get the opportunity. So
like I said, you're in the driver's seat. You need to be able to say what you want to say. We want to capture that. Um but also I'll be in the driver's seat of just making sure this meeting moves along and that we're, you know, getting through to everyone. So, I'm going to time the public comments tonight to 3 minutes. Um, the sheet that
I handed out might be helpful. There's four questions on there that just talks about um various areas that you might be concerned about. Um, the perception and concerns. It just talks about what do you think about the annexation? What are your priorities and needs, which is the
second question. Um, the third one is vision for the future. What does success look like? And then for just closing reflections on how do we make that a good decision. So take a look at that sheet that might be helpful so that if there's anything it sparks what you might want to say or say something
different. Um I usually people have the same similar concern so we might hear that as a pattern but if there's anything that you can come up with um that is on that sheet it's helpful. Do not speak over others. I'm just asking to be respectful. Don't speak over everybody. Speak respectfully. Be
mindful of time. Focus on issues. not people. Um, written feedback would be great. The sheet that I gave you, if you want to write on it and give it back to us, please do. I've also handed out or I've also come with these, these are post-its. If you want to fill these post-its out, we put on um over here
it's called benefits, challenges, and opportunities. So, you can put your thoughts on this and you can just put it on the the page over here. So, we want to capture it in the best way possible. So, people don't want to come up and speak, but I I'll take your written um feedback. Okay. So,
there we go. Um, is everybody Oh, yes. >> Is this session being recorded for people who can't come? >> Yeah. Yes. So, it's it'll be on YouTube. Um, and then we'll also have the one in two weeks and the next one is going to be at 6:30. We weren't sure which time was good for everyone with the time
change. So, we did 6:00 tonight, 6:30 for the next one. Okay. Um, all right. Is everybody clear on the the rules and where we're at? Are there any questions before I move on? Did I cover everything just to this point? >> Good.
>> Okay, great. Okay, question. >> So, I know I can't ask the question, but what's the process? You have two listening sessions. >> Yep. >> And then what's the process of a burrow
of Seaside Park to make the decision or the time frame? >> Okay. So, um, >> okay. Yeah. So, actually Gina will touch, uh, talk about that. She's going to be next. I'm going to have her go over the history, where we're at, how we where we're at, how we got here, and
what the process is. So, Okay. Sure. Yeah. Great question. All right. So, um, >> Yep. All right. So, we are going to do the pledge of allegiance. You guys, please stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Okay, >> you may want to
>> Can everybody see >> what? This one. This one's on. >> Okay. So, do I need this? >> Okay, good. I don't like it. >> Hi, my name is Jean Chipriani and I am special legal counsel for the bureau. I do a couple of things and I am uh been
retained to kind of advise the governing body on the uh annexation deanexation process. So, I'm just going to give you a little bit of whoa a little bit of background and to answer the gentleman's question, what the
process is and and why the process includes all the things that it does. So, as I think you're all aware, New Jersey law provides for this process. There's a statute that governs to a
large extent what happens here. And the people, the residents of South Seaside Park availed themselves of that process something like 11 years ago and began the process by doing a petition. They had to go initially to Berkeley
um because they were part of Berkeley Township and go through a process with the governing body and the planning board there. And that process is very clearly laid out in the statute. There's a lot of things that explain what they need to do. They went to the governing
body. The governing body refers it to the planning board. Planning board had hearings over I think a couple of years. Um made a recommendation to the governing body. The governing body said no. Um we don't think that uh you should go. We think that there'll be too much
of a negative impact on the remainder of Berkeley Township. that went through the court system um and it went eventually up to the New Jersey Supreme Court. The New Jersey Supreme Court made the determination for a number of reasons and that
decision is publicly available that the people from South Seaside Park had made their case that Berkeley Township had to let them go. So that part now is done. this New Jersey Supreme Court has ruled people from South Seaside Park, the
residents have the right now to come to Seaside Park and ask. And that's what they've done. They filed the petition. Um, and now the statute that's so specific about what Berkeley Township had to do is not as specific about what
Seaside Park has to do. But the governing body has made the decision and I it's a necessary one to engage in due diligence because it's a kind of thing where people can immediately have a feeling of like yes that's a great idea
it's going to be ratables what you know it's a no-brainer just take it and then other people have an immediate reaction of like why why would we want it that's not going to be good for Seaside Park we shouldn't make the change and both of those are sort of you know uh quick reactions
If the governing body made its decision just like that um then whatever decision they make either yes to accept it or no to reject it is subject to challenge of the court for being arbitrary and capriccious.
That's a big standard in municipal law and means that the governing body has an obligation to ask or act always on a rational basis. They can't be arbitrary. They can't be capriccious. Well, making decisions without information is almost the definition of being capriccious. So,
that's why the governing body has gone through this process. And I do want to say something that um I don't know if they said it is critically important that the governing body not prejudge this issue. So, people in the governing body uh you know publicly and even
privately will not be expressing their thoughts at this time. they are getting the information and it's important that they not do that because prejudging it is another way that the court can find whatever decision they make is arbitrary and capriccious. So it's important that
they sit back you know there are members of the governing body here now get the information and what that information is going to look like. So um uh Mr. Roberts and uh Miss Roundry and Allen. >> Yeah. >> Um are with Government Strategies Group.
That's a consultant that the Burough has uh retained and they're looking at a lot of the different issues and some I'm sure you'll bring up things tonight that nobody's thought of yet, but a lot of these issues have been thought of. So there's going to be operational
considerations. you know, if South Sea Park, Seaside Park joins, or is it going to be have to be more fleece, more garbage pickup, what is the infrastructure look like? Um, you know, what are the ratables? And then how much debt is there that Seaside Park would
have to take on because that's all part of the process. Um, another thing that happened and I'll just go through it and I there were some uh handouts. There are more here and this was on the website and it's going to be put there again and this explains what the process is.
>> You want to read? >> Yeah, I'll just put them up front. >> Yeah. Um so what happens with annexation is that if the governing body says yes and that is by ordinance so it's going to take
two readings and as you know or many of you know when there something is done by ordinance at the second reading the second meeting where the ordinance is up there's a time for public comment but before that there are going to be other
uh opportunities. So there's going to be a report that's generated by government strategies group and that will eventually be made public and also there is a planner that has been retained who's familiar with the bureau who is doing an analysis and that
will go um you know for also be provided to the public. The planning portion is very important because what happens is is that that all of this information comes arrives to the public there's an
opportunity for public discussion and then it comes up to a vote. If it comes up to a vote and twothirds of the governing body says yes at two readings when that ordinance becomes effective which is on publication as soon as it is effective
the ordinance south the south seaside park is part of seaside park and that means that they're immediately subject to the same uh taxes and the same ordinances. So with ordinances of general application, all
right, you know, uh getting a fence permit, something like that, that that's kind of easy. But if you think about it this way, that means that the second it becomes effective, all of Berkeley's zoning ordinances disappear. So what you will see if the governing
body decides to put this on is you will see the ordinance for annexation itself. Do we take these south east side park or not? And with that kind of traveling with it because it also has to be done by ordinances, we will see zoning
ordinances so that when the annexation becomes effective, if that's where the governing body decides to go, then there will be zoning ordinances in place. Um so that the there will be zoning immediately. There won't be any time where there is no zoning. But as you all
know uh far better than I, it South Seaside Park has different kinds of uh housing types than uh Seaside Park. There are things that are um are present there that are not present in Seaside Park. So we have to make sure that there are ordinances that are in place that
are appropriate for those kinds of housing types. Um, so we're going to have the reports. They'll be made available to the public. Presumably, we'll come up for a vote. The governing body very much wants to have that done by the end of the year,
but that cannot be guaranteed. Um, and um there is nothing in the statute that gives a certain amount of time. So, it's important to take the time to get the information, but it's also important, I think, in UNS not to
let it linger um as as an ongoing issue. When the information is there, the decision has to be made. Once that decision is made, and I'm going to talk about two different kinds of things that can happen. There's one thing that clearly happens under the statute. But the other thing that could happen is
that either if the governing body says yes, we'll take it. There's a group of people that thinks no, that was a bad decision. We don't think that was the right decision. And they can file in superior court and as they say, governing body was arbitrary capriccious. The information that they
received doesn't support it. And then that may go through court the court system. If that happens, the court could kind of enter an order staying what I'm going to talk about in terms of the statute and what the statute says happens next. Equally, if the governing
body says no, you know, we've looked at everything. We don't think it's right for for Seaside Park. We're going to say no and not take South Seaside Park. than the people from South Seaside Park or residents of Seaside Park who think it was a good opportunity and a good idea
and that it was arbitrary capriccious to say no also would have the opportunity to go to court. But what will definitely happen unless the court enters an order saying that there's a stay. Now all of a sudden the statute which has been very
vague about the process for Seaside Park, the the um municipality contemplating annexing uh the other the petitioning uh section of Berkeley Township. All of a sudden it gets very
specific indeed. This is how specific it gets. after the 3 days. Okay. As soon as the the ordinance is effective on the Monday, specifically the Monday following the effective date of the
ordinance at 1000 a.m. in Seaside Park Municipal Building, there will be a um gathering. And that gathering is three people from Seaside Park that are appointed by the governing body
and three point people from Berkeley Township that are appointed by their governing body. And they will meet at 10:00 a.m. on the Monday following effective the ordinance here because all of a sudden the legislature got very very uh busy with telling us exactly how
to do things. And the subject there is, okay, does Seaside Park owe Berkeley Township money? Is there a section of the bonding? Over the years, you know, Berkeley Township has issued a lot of bonds for infrastructure and police cars
and and all sorts of things. They have debt and they have to say this section of our debt, this portion of our debt. Obviously, it's not all their debt, right? It's a big town. this portion of our debt is attributable to South Seaside Park and therefore Seaside Park
you have to take that on. That is something that we are looking at now. So the governing body is at bond council been in contact with uh our bond council and also with government strategies group to look at that issue look at their outstanding debt. What do we think
is really attributable? Because the statute does not let you know beforehand exactly what that number is going to be. >> Is that nice? You have to say yes or no and then this process to determine
exactly what that number is going to be. >> That doesn't happen till the vote. Yes or no. So the vote is yes. three people team Susan Park team meet and there's a period of is it 30 or 60 days I think it's 60 days
yes 60 days to meet periodically and try and come to an agreement what does an agreement look like we've got six people in the room four people have to agree
if four people do not agree which means either you know one person from Seaside Park takes the Berkeley position or one person from Berkeley takes the Seaside Park position then after 60 days that is over and then under the statute Seaside
Park must not May must apply to the superior court and say we can't come to agreement and then the assignment judge for Ocean County appoints three people not any of the uh pre-existing Berkeley
or Seaside Park people, three people that the court chooses and those people have 30 days to come to a decision and that decision is final. And here's the kicker. Those people probably get paid. I don't think they're
doing a volunteer basis. And the costs are split between Berkeley Township and Seaside Park. And if you're asking right now if I know what that cost is, no, I do not. Um, so that's what the process is. Once that determination is made, as I said, this could be a shorter process
where it's the 60 days. I'm I don't want to be cynical. I think it's unlikely that there'll be an agreement, but maybe there will be. So, it's then 60 days and then the 90 days. the court can give you know his people because it's a judge
Hutchinson um a few you know a little more time but eventually they make a decision and that decision is final in terms of the attribution and um then of course you know the the you know all of this does have a financial aspect
because then the raidables start coming in but the money is not you know it takes time to collect money and there are costs that are going to be gener generated sort of from the beginning, not just the costs of the legal process, but other operational costs and that's
what these guys are are going to take a look at and advise on. So, I don't want to take up too much time, but does anybody have any questions? >> Does it ever come up to a public vote? Like, is like this is far now, but and you're going to do all these things. We trust our council people and all that
stuff, but >> is there any point where it could be put on a ballot? Um there so in this form of government and in the statute about annexation and the statute that governs the bureau there is no such thing as a binding public referendum
um that just doesn't exist for this form of government. There are other forms of government where it does. This is not one of them. Um legally a nonbinding referendum is something that could be put on the ballot. I think that what you sort of end up there with is with a time
frame. And I will say that a concern with that is remember the standard is whether it's arbitrary and capriccious. So since it cannot be a binding referendum, it's always going to be up to the governing body. So that standard
is always going to apply. And now you've got a lot of people voting. Obviously, you know, you've got all these people in this room that are really trying to inform themselves about the issues, but that is sometimes the difficulty because there are so many moving parts. So,
legally there's something could be done. It's also very um timeconuming to get um that on. that and it does I think create that question of well did you just do it because a majority of people who didn't have all the information said it and
then it becomes a legal issue but I hope that answers your question. >> Yeah I hate to see if Camden wanted to annex out of Mercer County come here >> you have to have a uh >> common border. >> Oh okay.
So honestly, it's only South Seaside Park and Seaside Heights. >> They've tried to do this years ago. >> Do you have any history? >> Um I only have history and I know that there are others in the room that know it much better than I do. I do know that
it came up I believe it was in the late '7s um for a vote and it was hotly debated and then it was decided not to do the annexation >> of the people then yes it was
>> so but all again ultimately it always has to go to the governing body the the statute doesn't allow the governing body to uh delegate that decision to the people but you can to um you know survey or a non-binding referendum. Those are
are things. And then also another way to get that input is to have sessions like this. You know, this is being recorded. This is part of the record. And I know you had a question. I would I'm working my way this way. >> You mentioned a time frame. It sounds
like this is being rushed. What does it matter if it's done by this year or gives us a whole another year to really look into it without rushing through it? >> So the statute does not provide a time frame. I don't think the governing body has any desire to rush through anything.
So as I said there is a a a you know a desire to get it done uh by the end of the year, but the the the more pressing desire is to get all of the information first. So that's what's going to be done. That's why I said there's no guarantees on that.
>> So, Government Strategies is working this whole effort through completion and I'm assuming there'll be a final report at some point. >> So, and thank you. It's it's like we have questions that are coming up that are leading into where we're going. So, I wanted to take a minute just to
introduce Government Strategy Group. Um, we've been around for almost 20 years, one year shy of 20 years. Um we are a group of government professionals most of whom are retired or have left the public sector in New Jersey. Uh we work throughout the state on various
projects. This is a unique one. I will say that uh annexation in New Jersey hasn't happened for quite a while. Um so this is a unique project. But I I wanted to make sure everyone in this room knew that while three of us are here tonight, our project team on this project alone
is over a dozen people. Um experts in various fields. We have, you know, former CFOs of municipalities. We have former public works and infrastructure experts in municipalities. I myself is an I'm an AICP certified planner. Um we
have former police chiefs looking at the public safety aspect. So we have an entire team. Yes, we will be producing a report. We have thousands of pages of documents and information. We have been working for several weeks now um digesting the information, looking at
budgets, looking at reports, previous reports that have been done. Um the the court studies um so there's a lot of other work that is going on in the background. Uh because we are public sector professionals. I used to teach municipal management at Ruckers. One of
the most important aspects of local government, particularly in New Jersey, is is connecting with the people and community engagement. And that's why we stressed and we thought it was very very important to hear what everybody else is thinking because despite the large number of us that are working on this
project, um you guys are going to have a different perspective than we will. And I I will say that. >> Exactly. Totally agree. So what is the timetable for producing a final or semi-final report that you would then turn over to the bureau leadership that then they would have all the information
to start going through and making you know presenting decisions. What's the time frame for that? >> So as as I was saying and I will continue um we are we have been working for several weeks already. Um we will continue to work uh as things come up.
We're we're our goal is to get a report by December, early December. Um based on this is toward the tail end of our work and our studies, these feedback sessions. Um if things come up between now and then, that study might have to
be pushed back. And so to what Jean said, we want to make sure that we get it right as instead of rushing and pushing it forward. So our original goal this early December that might have to get pushed back. The other thing I want to stress and I can't stress enough is
we are completely neutral on this. We have got g been given no direction from any of the governing body members or anybody in Seaside Park or Berkeley to to write a report one way or another. Everybody is neutral that is writing this report and the information will be based on the facts and the feedback that
we have from the community. So I just wanted to stress that before we before we move on to this. So if I could just add the title of our report and the uh subject from which we are engaged to study, it's called an annexation impact
study. So we're not here to direct an outcome. We're here to present facts and information. What most likely is going to delay the report is as ambitious as we'd like to be to get a good quality report into the hands of
the governing body in December is getting information. Access to information is always critical and that's always one of the elements that takes adds to the time frame for getting the course and for that we also have to rely on getting information from Berkeley
Township and sometimes that's challenging. So uh that could delay things. >> So your report will not provide any recommendations to Seaside Park Burough. Correct. >> It will just provide >> information the information on each of the specific areas good, bad, or
indifferent. Correct. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Okay. Is that okay? >> All right. So I'm just going to say if anybody, you know, this is a sort of summary of that. I'm just going to leave them here. If you could grab them at the end, just at the end. And again, they
will be posted online. If we don't have enough copies, you can go get them online. >> I'm going to go sit over here. I'm not going to sit there in the set proceed for this whole thing. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we are at 6:25. So, we have an hour. Um, so I just want to give everybody 3
minutes. If you want to come up, um, I would just line up. Uh, just remember, please, no interruptions. Uh, 3 minutes is not a lot of time. It's a good amount of time. Not enough time. people get interrupted then they're not going to be able to say what they say have to say. So um we are going to time it. I'll I'll
ask you to wrap it up around 2:45 and you know the three minutes and that's it. So we'll get started if you guys want to come on up. [Music] >> Give me one second. Is it on? Oh, here.
[Music] [Applause] >> Um, good evening. Um, I do you want name and address or >> um >> if you would like we'll incorporate it. >> Everything's being recorded. So, if you like your just for the record, it'd be great.
>> Girtu, my concerns are um and I'm very glad we have professionals who are doing this. Just concerns. I'll list them. Uh infrastructure, um condition of wells. We have an issue with a well in Seaside Park. It will be expensive. I'd like to know if there's
that. Um make sure the water towers are I guess enough for the population. Um and this is a crazy one, but at one point Seaside Park had wooden water system underground. I certainly
expensive if South Seasside has those still. Um it was expensive for us to change them over. Um curbing and sidewalks to know the cost. Um liquor licenses since it's based on population.
Um building code you addressed. Um only any polluted properties. Previously there was probably one in South Seas side. I don't know if it's that's the case. possibly one in Seaside Park. Um, pending litigation. I believe Seaside
Park is involved in I'm not sure, but I think three lawsuits. I'd be curious if South Seaside is or if a property owner there is and Berkeley Township is going against them. I don't know how that
would be. Um, school, it's always costly. How many children? Um uh what do we owe Berkeley and on the maze? We don't find out until the 11th hour. That's that's insane. Um and
Bayfront remediation, it's an issue that's being considered by council um right now for Seaside Park. Cost of including that with um Berkeley. Thank you. >> Thank you. You're good. Do you need time? Okay. I'm
going to address like with public works right now. We've had a lack of employees. How can they possibly handle the additional areas? Um need to mention the garbage trucks. The code office. Um we're short-handed in the code office which means we will have to hire more
people. And how many inspections will that include then for rentals that they have down there? and how can we possibly handle it and the lifeguards is something else that needs to be considered and how many beaches and revenue and the main thing is like somebody else had mentioned before and
something I was reading about reassessment if we get reassessed in another year what's that doing with our taxes I think taxes is one of the bottom lines we're looking into thank you >> thank you >> next >> anybody
We don't fight. We're here. We're listening. >> 80.48 11th Avenue. Um, you said that the moment the ordinance to uh accept annexation is in effect that all services would then
be in play would would have to happen. Well, how does that happen? That the morning after If the council votes to approve this the morning after, how does the garbage get collected when
if there's not enough trucks or people or any how does that happen? The other question I have is you mentioned there'd be repercussions if a member of the governing body had expressed their opinion either in public or private. What are the repercussions
of that? That's my concern. [Music] My name is Pat Roach. I just have one thing. So, some of the beaches in South Seaside are owned privately and none of them here are. So, how is that going to be dealt with?
[Music] >> We've talked a lot about the state of New Jersey. Um what about the federal things that how is that going to impact like merging post offices? Is that going to be an expense and and any other
federal domain that we are subject to here that's not state of New Jersey? >> I'm sure you're anticipating there's going to be lawsuits at the end because people do that. Um one of the things that mitigates lawsuits is good information ahead of time. So things
like we're likely to pay a lot of money to be able to figure this out. You're not going to put out what the money is until a certain amount of time. So provisions on things like um how much time do does Heaside Park have to pay that or get the bond for that or you know because if it's 5 days we can't do
it. If it's 500 years no problem at all. Um secondly the process for how the reassessment for taxes is going to work. Mhm. >> Um, you know, is there legal guidelines that say this is what you can do, this is what you can't do because everyone
has ideas. We want our tax stay the same. They want their taxes to go down. What are the criteria? Or is there something simple like um the state says on day one everyone's tax has to be of the same concept or the same, you know, tax and there's no grandfathering. Like
it'd be great if they got 10 years for theirs to come down. Ours didn't go up for 10 years. you know, can that kind of stuff be considered or is that uh illegal by statute? Knowing that ahead of time could mitigate a lot of lawsuits or people thinking they know something, but if you can actually communicate that before the decision is made or when the
decision is made, you might be able to reduce a lot of lawsuits. >> Thank you. >> So, one thing I would just like to note, we do have on our team, Chiron mentioned the well-rounded team, we do have a tax assessment expert as a member of our team looking at issues like that.
Unlike the state of New Jersey, as other states disabled combat veterans buying property, what incentives would the new infrastructure require for that in order to make incentives for veterans like myself in order to purchase or to be be
part of this community unlike Florida, Texas, and so forth that are much more veteran friendly than here. >> On the eve of Veterans Day, thank you for your service. >> Yes. Hi, my name is George Veno Jr. Um, I'm
up I'm hearing a lot of negativity. I was on a committee from South Seasside Park for the annexation and I would just like to bring a little positivity to the situation and I'd like the people of Seaside Park to understand that the
people from South Seasside Park who wanted this badly is because we do want to become a part of this community because basically we already are a part of this community. My children, my great grandchildren now,
we participate in the Fourth of July bike parade. We participate in the Memorial Day service out here. Everything we do, we do here. We do nothing in Berkeley Township because to do that in the summertime on a weekend,
we have to drive 40 minutes or more because of the traffic to get to our municipal, you know, the things that happen in our municipality. We want to be part of Seaside Park. So, if I can bring positivity to it and let the
people of Seaside Park know that the people of South Seaside Park really want to be a part of your community because we already are. >> And I understand there's a lot going into this. There's a lot about the money. There's a lot about, you know,
what happens here, what happens here. I'm hoping that us in Seaside Park, South Seaside Park and Seaside Park, let's get together on it, figure it out, and make it happen. I just want to add some positivity cuz it
sounds like a lot of negativity. >> Here, here G Street. Um, my biggest concern, well, one, I think this makes sense. You know, it does. You know, Berkeley's a long way. Um, two, I
want to make sure that it benefits in a positive way the folks in Seaside Park. You know, if this comes back and our taxes go up or everything, then why should we do this? You know, so that that's a big question. We should do this because it's good for the community, but
it's also not a burden on us. And maybe it's a positive choice. I'd love to see my taxes go down. Wouldn't we all love to see our taxes go down a little bit? Maybe a little bit. Um, and I know Berkeley's are a little higher, so you know, maybe theirs come down a little bit. But that's that's fundamentally it. And my, as my wife says, you know, we
don't have any restaurants in Seaside Park. The restaurants are in South Seaside Park. So, we got to make sure that we make them happy so we have a place to go eat >> and drink. >> And drink. Richard McMillan, 10th Avenue. Uh, the
major problem I see with this is the governing body has to make a decision on whether to up or down before we know what the debt is that we're going to have to assume.
That's a mistake in the state law. Let's be perfectly honest about it. That's the one problem I see. If we could sit down and negotiate this with Berkeley Township before the decision is made, I mean, so we're not buying a pig and a poke with
regards to what we're going to have to pay. I think it would be a lot easier for all of the people here concerned at Seaside Park because as far as the people at South Seaside Park becoming part of Seaside Park, as the gentleman from South Seaside Park said, yeah,
they've been part of this. I mean the Tribar first aid squad, Triboroough Heights Park, South Seasside Park, a lot of the things have been shared by the communities over the years, but we
haven't had to share the debt. We'd like to know what that debt is before we buy off on it. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [Music]
I'm Tom Joseph Seaside Park in Bay View. What I would like to know and sure I'm I'm in favor of this I think I don't have any data. So what I would like assurance from the governing body before
they make their decision that your report will be on that website where I can read it and then I can get a sense of what the answers are cuz I'm in favor of this. But if it's going to cost me double my property taxes, I want to
think about that. I'm assuming it won't. Um, the second thing, the formula that's used to figure out our school property taxes is a bit obscure, but I'm assuming it's something
that you guys can calculate. I'd like to know that our school property taxes, which are a substantial portion of our tax bill, if they're impacted, is the impact positive or negative or neutral? I'm hoping it's neutral, but I'd like to
know. Um, I understand the zoning is going to be a big back and forth and all that. I I only want to say that I hope that whatever we do there, we go slowly. To me, it makes sense to preserve the look and feel of South Seaside Park as
as our neighbor than once they become part of Seaside Park so we don't suddenly make radical changes. I mean, driving around feels a little more like going to the shore in the old days. So, I think we should do what we can to not impact too badly. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Who's next? >> How you doing? >> My name is Bobetti. I'm in South Seaside Park and actually I'm not for annexation. Um, I look at it this way. We had a council that's going to make
the decision for annexation. We also had a council that made the decision for dean annexation. And we as voters never got a choice to make that decision. And in your assembly 1770, I think it is for legal counsel, there's a section says um
the governing body can say no. And in that no section, it describes um whether or not there's a social impact to the citizens. Well, where are the citizens that voted for these councils? Where are the citizens that voted for Berkeley? And we need to make our own decisions on
who we vote for. So, when the town council gets together, remember, we're the ones that put you in office in Berkeley Township. We're the ones that put you in office, but we don't get this decision. We're going to leave that decision to somebody else. And as a free country, I think we should make the
decision and not have council make the decision for us. And I used to think about that before you stand up here and worry about water towers, what my sewer is going to look like, my taxes. But what's being taken away from you is your ability to make a decision for where you
live and how you live. Thank you. >> As my good friend Richard said, my name's Kim Buchanan, Ocean Avenue. As my good friend Richard said, no, not knowing what the debt will be until after you've decided is like buying a car or not being told what the price is. But my bigger concern in hearing what
your process was is this town's got a history of the courts not being good to us. We've been through fights long ago about our property taxes that make absolutely no sense for the children that we send to school and what the
state or the courts rather have decided we ought to pay for those students. I can't see how that is ever going to change. So I get very nervous about well the courts after the 90 days the courts are going to figure it out because they
always find a way to say oh you could pay more. Thank you. >> Good evening. I am Bobby Raiden. I'm also a South Seaside Park resident. And um for my neighbors, I think it's important that they realize that the
South Seaside Park Homeowners Voters Association spent nearly 10 years uh going through the process of deanexation through Berkeley Township and monthly public hearings. And when the council decided to reject that application, uh we appealed it to the court and the
court ruled in our favor. The township appealed that to the appellet court. that three judge panel unanimously ruled in our favor saying it was a just decision. Brookie Township appealed that to the New Jersey State Supreme Court. New Jersey State Supreme Court
unanimously ruled this past July that it was a good decision for us to leave South Seaside Park. Now it's excuse me incumbent upon Seaside Park to make a decision whether it's a good decision for them to accept us as part of the community. I want to share some of the
comments that were made about being a part of the community. My captain of the seaside park volunteer fire company fire company also serves Berkeley Township Southside Park. >> Excuse me. You know, I'm just going to give you the microphone. >> I'm sorry. >> We want to make sure it's recorded.
>> No worries. Thank you. >> South Seaside Park um fire country service county. >> I too participate in all the recreational activities that Seaside Park has to offer. I now want to I get my time back. Right. >> Try that.
>> There we go. Thank you. >> Can you hear me now? >> We are the members of our community s South Park already participate in this community. Um a lot of questions about cost and debt. I didn't hear anyone point out that there's several million
as in three plus million dollars in revenue that will come to the town u from taxes collected from the residents of South Seaside Park to offset those revenues. I assure you that Berkeley is not going to be able to uh impart on Seaside Park an unfair share of debt
that's not relevant or relative to the taxes that Berkeley was collecting to pay that debt. All right. I suspect or I suggest that there'll be revenue left over. to help pay for things that Berkeley would like to do they didn't have, excuse me, that Seaside would like to do that doesn't have the funds for now without raising taxes. It may also
be revenue left over that will import a tax savings on the residents of Seaside Park and South Seaside Park. That's for the council to determine, but uh yes, there's a lot of whatifs and I understand the whatifs. I guess because I've been involved in the process for 10 years, I'm much more confident about uh
what the outcome could be. So I ask you to be openminded, but don't forget it's not all expense to sees Brook. There's revenue coming to offset all of that expense. >> They bought us 11 years, Bob, because they didn't want to give up. >> That's exact. That's an excellent point. Sees didn't want to lose that money cuz
we were a cash cow to them. We'll be a cash cow to Seaside Park. [Music] >> Who's next? I just >> Oh, go ahead. >> Just quick question. >> Uh, I'm also Joe Mar from South Seaside
Park. So, is Berkeley going uh Seaside Park will accept the current tax assessments that Berkeley has on our homes now or are they going to come reassess us? >> If I could just address the one issue
regarding debt. uh when our report is compiled and presented to the mayor and council. >> Can't hear you. >> You want to go now? >> No one's exempt. >> Yeah.
>> So I just want to state that part of our report will it's again an impact study. So it will include a lot of financial analysis including uh impact potential impact on tax rate uh allocation methods
for assuming part of Berkeley's debt etc. uh we whatever we put in our report is not finalized obviously because it's up to the committee and ultimately up to the courts but we're a team of experts as
Chiron mentioned and you know it'd be hardressed to somebody to argue or downplay our findings as being just arbitrary or uh capriccious that you know our facts and so forth are based on sound footing. and so forth. So, I just
want to make sure that everybody understands that when the mayor and council are making a decision, it's not going to be in a complete vacuum. They're going to have some factual information. It may not prevail at the end of the day because of the legal
system, but they will have factual information to work from. >> You know, here I just want to see >> that. Did it is it still on? Y >> and I just want to say um just you know that after the two listening sessions we
are also going to be creating an FAQ um you know for what we can answer so that some of these questions will be answered they'll be posted um but I just want some we can't answer tonight but what we can answer whatever the the outcome is from these listening sessions you will absolutely have that information.
[Music] I know there's a lot of people in here from South Seaside Park. I was involved with annexation way back in the time and one of my concerns then was about the school because we didn't have enough room. That's done. The problem was it
created people losing friends. I don't want anybody from South Seaside Park thinking that we don't like you. That's completely wrong. I'm looking out for my tax dollar and that's the bottom line. If my taxes are going to go up much more
than they have, then some of us are going to have to look into moving out of town. So, the bottom line is that it's not that we don't want to. I mean, I have no problem. My taxes are staying. It's not going to hurt us. You're all welcome to join us. We appreciate you. So, please don't walk out there cuz they
hate us. Thank you. Pat Erso 10th Avenue. I definitely would like to see us combined as one town. I'm concerned that this report is not available in December when
everybody is busy and doing 9 million other things and the council meetings are this long. >> They're teeny in the at the holiday time. I want us to have time to be able to as the public
see that report, read that report before the council makes their decisions. And I want to be able to hear the council talk about the report at our council meetings so we all
can get a sense of what it is. I'm hoping it works. >> Thank you. full bar ocean everything. Uh an idea, we know how the taxes are developed, town taxes, where the money
goes and everything, but the school taxes, it's always been a gray area. Nobody really knows the formula, how it's uh, you know, carried out and everything. I would like to see that put into this report. This is
just for the school. I don't care about the town. We know that. And the county, they come in say, but school taxes, I heard it's unrable, the number of children you sent to the school. Then they take everything together, they say, here's your taxes. Spell it out in the
report. Exactly. So everybody knows. Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Would anyone else like to speak? >> Tom Bars, Brighton Avenue. Um you guys acknowledged earlier about the
uniqueness of this and it's uncommonness right and our neighbors spent the last 11 years trying to get their separation which I respect and appreciate. Why are we rushing to get this done by the end
of the year or whatever the short time frame is? This is complex. You guys acknowledged it. you you don't have many other examples of how to go through this process, right? So, I would request you take the time, turn over all the rocks,
find all the pros and cons, and make this as comprehensive as it can possibly be and not be time bound by it. Because if I understand the earlier presentation, there is no timebound aspect to this
under the ordinance. time bound comes in un not knowing what the debt is once that decision is made but let's not rush this right and I'm not trying to delay 12 years for our neighbors from 11 years but at the end of the day this has got
to be done right for everybody and you need to take the time to do it right that's my feedback I'm Juliana Al Street, current planning board chairman of Seaside Park. I don't want it missed by anybody in this room and I'm completely neutral and funny
would never even discuss this issue that due to no having no dog in a hut park governing body now is under stress in pressure and soularching not having asked for this to make this decision. I think everybody should respect the
pressure that they're under. I really want to thank them for bringing in a professional team. Miss Cypriani is awesome. You guys obviously know what you're doing with your experience. I just don't want lost on that this is not something that the governing body asked to participate in and they're going
about it properly and I think in the end they're going to make the right decision. Thank you. >> Anybody else? Okay. >> Oh, you're joking. Okay. All right. Wow.
So, okay. We're not even to 7 o'clock yet. So, I just want to make sure everybody has said what they need to say. There's anyone else that I missed. Um, okay. Wonderful. So, again, in two weeks, Monday night at 6:30, we will have 6:30, right? 6:30,
>> we will have another listening session. If there was anything missed, we will gather all the information. Um, after the listening session, we will compile an FAQ. Um, if everybody I don't know if everybody got a a sheet like this, but if you did, I would love for you to fill
it out. Um, leave it behind if you can tonight. If you want to fill it out at home, we are going to make sure to have a Google doc. It's not on the website yet, but it will be in the next, um, we'll get up in the next couple days. I just have to send it over to the burough clerk. Um, please fill it out. Have
everybody you know fill it out. Um, you can come up. You want to come up? >> You said your own question once you're done. >> Oh, okay. Um, and then also I just wanted to I'm going to put this up here you guys. So, my name is Lisa Allen
and I will be gathering if you have any questions you can send them to my email um and I will share them and put them I'll I'll filter them to the right places. So, my email is and I'll put put it up here. lall allengovernmentstrategygroup.com. We will have the Google form. Our next
session is the 24th. I just want to make sure I didn't do I did I miss anything? Think you covered everything. >> Did I miss anything? >> No. Put it back up. >> Um the other thing is I just wanted to say before you guys go, I do have some postits up here. Feel free if you want
to write anything, you can write it up on the postits up here. benefits, challenges, opportunities. I do want to say thank you. I want to say thank you for coming out tonight. One for welcoming us. I know this sounds um I I wouldn't say
contentious, but there's some concerns and having being so welcoming. You guys were incredibly welcoming to us and I just want to thank you um because we're in your home and you know your communities best. So, thank you for participating. Thank you for um being an
extraordinary two communities and however it happens um I'm just proud to be a part of it. I think we all are.