[Music] [Music] [Music]
[Music] you're not the one that has to hear it it's okay i can I can feel my pulse so it's okay so let me Good evening welcome to the
March meeting of the Simino County Board of Adjustment for those of you in the audience who have not attended one of these hearings recently please allow me to review our normal procedures staff will introduce each item for consideration if you'd like to speak on a matter uh there is a form in the lobby
you need to fill out and give to the clerk uh before you can speak uh the applicant and the applicant supporters will be heard first those in opposition if any will be heard next then the applicant will be given a chance for
rebuttal comments should be restricted to the pertinent information regarding the item that's before the board we don't get into personal disputes or homeowners disputes or any of that kind of stuff uh if you are an individual you will have three minutes to share your thoughts if you represent an
organization uh you'll have six minutes um speakers should move closer to the podium when staff is introducing your item uh when you before you begin speaking if you could please identify yourself by your name and address we would appreciate it uh and we ask that
everyone in the audience give each speaker courteous and polite attention uh the board might ask questions of speakers or staff members so don't be surprised uh and information that's presented uh will be kept as part of the record if what you're presenting is just
purely digital on a device we ask that after the meeting you send a copy of that to staff uh I'll then ask for a motion from the board once the motion's been made and seconded discussion from the floor will be closed following discussion a vote will be taken and if a
member does not say I or nay in response to the motion they are considered to have voted in favor of it uh if you disagree with any decision of this board you have 15 days to appeal it to the county commission and after the meeting staff can help you with that process so
having said that number one good evening for the record Megan Zenorski project coordinator for planning this variance request is for 315 North Orange Avenue this property is not located in a platted subdivision but is located north of the intersection of
North Road and North Orange Avenue in the A1 zoning district the applicant is seeking a front yard setback variance from the required 50 ft to zero feet for fencing and driveway gates the proposed structures are a six are six feet tall
aluminum fence along the front property line and six feet tall wood privacy fence along the side property line as well as two architectural double gates with a peak height of 7.5 ft all located within the required front yard setback the proposed fencing gates are located
25 ft from the edge of the road and traffic engineering has no objection to the proposed location of the fencing or gates the applicant has submitted one letter of support which was provided with the agenda that concludes my presentation i'm available for additional questions gentlemen any
questions for staff seeing none is the applicant here look at that right up front hello John Vetay at 315 North Orange Avenue yes sir anything you want to add to what staff has shared i do not i um
basically wanted to put fencing in where fencing existed when we moved in it was old and destroyed and we're replacing it along the existing fence line and the style and fence that we're choosing is similar to other neighbors in the property is actually where we got the idea some of the other homes are very
beautifully adorned with the same style fencing gotcha thank you sir gentlemen any questions yes sir question what type of fence was up i was reading the app what type of fence was up there beforehand it was a wooden threeboard i think it was three or four feet tall it's hard to tell because it was largely destroyed by falling trees and limbs it
was completely overgrown with vines same footprint sir that you're just basically putting the new one in the front yes thank you mhm any others quick question and you had mentioned that it's similar what you're proposing is similar to what your neighbors have
do you have any photos of them you can share oh love it [Applause] no sir if you'd give them to uh Yeah our our our staff is are are whiz kids with this technology that's the one that's most similar to
what we were proposing to put up these are some older versions of the same six-foot metal picket at different addresses cool perfect thank you sir any other
questions yeah I have one um so from the prop the Google Street View and uh even from your neighbors of supports letter so the entire front of your house was completely overgrown i mean I saw the Yeah that um so all of that's like you've removed all that and now you're just trying to put in this ornate gate
correct and in there somewhere was the old fence it's impossible to see yeah okay cheers got you thank you sir you're welcome thank you is there anyone here to speak in support of the application yes sir and yes ma'am
if you just please share with us your name and address real quick absolutely my name is Jennifer Schumacher i reside at 5938 Feather Lane Sanford Florida um which is across the street from this property i'm also the president of the homeowners association for seminal
Estates which is in our neighborhood um so a little history on this roughly 2003 2004 Semino County decided it was cheaper to pave all the roads in Semino County rather than leaving and
maintaining dirt roads so North Orange Avenue was paved the county came in and started um surveying where the road needed to be the survey team couldn't find it because the road was completely on my property m the county Jim Beachch
who was head of uh Seminal County roads who I believe still is um him and I for months and months and months worked this out to get this paved seminal county did not have enough money to move the road to the correct location only to pave it semol County brought me 20 loads of road
base i paid myself $3,000 to have some of the trees removed to move it in a more straighter location because if you continue looking towards 46 on this picture the road shifted way far to the west agreement to take down some of the
trees that were there on a um uninhabited property because there was no house at the time that was in under construction uh Jim Beachch and I went to the neighbors that owned the property prior
and the other gentleman to the south uh Kenny Kerval and in lie of moving the road basically was not on their property it's on county property um I put up a brand new fence for him i took down the old fence and I put up a brand new fence
now that was 20 years ago and that was the dilapidated fence that the Vajadas took down um the fence next to them which I know where the S county um markers were when they surveyed it from
the seminal county um survey division their fence isn't even on the right spot there's a couple feet in and I don't know I'm sure John has pictures of the horrible garage door fence next to it that's also why they're put wanting to put up the privacy fence there is not
one person in this neighborhood in Seminal Estates of the 103 lots that would protest the fence this uh property owner is wishing to put up it is going to be an improvement by far so excellent thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions
thank you ma'am yes sir gentlemen of the board ladies gentlemen of the staff thanks so much my name is Craig craig Bissell uh my wife Judy Bissell is in the third row we're neighbors of Miss Shoeachers and these folks that are petitioning you uh here
today it's a semi-ural neighborhood we all have plus or minus 5 acres there's some equestrian property there in fact Miss Schumacher operates a boarding stable just about every house in the neighborhood was built by somebody different uh so it's kind of a unique neighborhood and many of the properties
most of the properties have a fence ranging from zero to 50 ft and anything in between off the street line so what these folks are proposing to do is no different than most of the neighbors have and in fact as was said earlier what they're trying to do is just
replace an old fence in the exact same location that it was before if you could see the house today versus what it looked like when they took possession of it night and day different they're doing a fabulous job upgrading their property and certainly upgrading the neighborhood
and what they're asking for today is legitimate reasonable and certainly in line with as Miss Schumacher said what everybody in the neighborhood would support okay thank you thank you sir thank you questions all right anyone else thank you sir uh anyone else to speak in
support anyone here to speak in opposition boy if every neighborhood had folks getting together like this goodness gracious all right uh nobody here to speak in opposition your pleasure gentlemen move to approve mr beley has a motion to approve vice Chair
has a second all those in favor i those opposed enjoy i know you got a job ahead of you now number two [Applause] good evening for the record again Megan project for planning this variance
request is for 1675 Astro Farms Place this property is located in the plan development Astro Farms phase 1 subdivision the applicant is seeking a rear yard setback variance from the required 25 ft to 6 ft for an existing 220 square foot screen enclosure the
existing 11 foot by 20 foot screen enclosure is not the subject of a code enforcement violation the pool screen enclosure meets the required setback and is permitted at a reduced setback for the land development code but the screening room is required to meet principal structure setbacks the
applicant has submitted four letters of support which was provided to you with the agenda the subject property has no prior variances that concludes my presentation i am available for additional questions i'm taking a look and maybe I missed it at the at the graphic and I see three in
support where's the fourth i believe you but just to know where to look on the map in the notes themselves there were three in the That could be a typo i apologize gotcha gentlemen any questions for staff mr chair sir um anything you can tell us about
1679 82 um that are they have enclosures as well were those permitted so pool enclosures have a reduced setback it's the hard roof screen and the only variance that was in the area was 1727 Aster Farms
Place thank you any other thank you ma'am the applicant here yes sir if you could just share with us your name and address please oh well I'm hearing um my name or Yes sir your your
name and address please james Armstrong 2750 Cypress Slooh Way Geneva Florida please okay so um I'm the I'm not the homeowner but I'm the contractor that installed that screen enclosure and of course we uh we do pull permits on all
the jobs and this particular one we actually outran it and we check the setbacks it look good we're going by what you know 90% of them are you know when you have the setbacks correct on the sides and the rear you're good so we had a timeline we moved forward with it
and then you know of course we applied for the permit it came back whoops it's rejected because the the insulated roof portion uh had a greater setback than the enclosure which was I've been in business for 35 years and I haven't seen it now I delegate a lot but I haven't
seen that particular instance so that's how we find ourselves in this position here get we got ahead of it so um I think I think from the county from what I've heard the county's position is hey we don't want something that could be turned into habitable living space with
a solid roof in the past people would go and um they try to turn that into habitable living space next thing you know you're 5t from your neighbor and you're living in your living room this is clearly not the case and I can show you some documents of how the job's designed there's been photographs provided um but basically it's just a
solid uh solid roof screen enclosure um and it only has two screen walls to it so there's no footers foundations there's not even any chance that thing can be converted uh into habitable living and if it's not granted it's going to be very unfortunate for the the
Williams because we're going to have to you know the job's going to look exactly like it looks we just have to take the solid roof off and convert it to screen and it's not going to be any change in the aesthetic of this enclosure it's just going to be screen instead of solid and so from a visible standpoint there's your flyover right
there you have the flyover you'll see it from that or on if you're in it you'll be able to see that roof but if you're standing in a backyard anywhere else you're not be very hard to tell there's even a solid roof there so um it's kind of where we're at is just and the people if it's not granted
they're not going to have any there's no lai very little lai on the house they're not going to have any area to get out of the sun in their pool um makes sense gentlemen any questions yes sir i have one um so the covered
roof only covers that southern portion of the screen everything else is a normal screen enclosure so sir the variance is really just for that small and it it could be reduced down i think we're allowed to have like I have an illustration that shows it would be down to like four feet which would wouldn't do much for them that you know right it's just a walkway at that point in
time um okay but the but the the design of the enclosure I don't know if there's a photograph that shows from that we provided but you design an enclosure is going to look exactly the same if it's not granted so as we're scratching the head going wow it's it's really kind of a technicality but yeah they're your
rules not ours but you um we're here to just try to you know assist in any way shape or form that we can you know get this thing through and granted so gotcha thank you sir thank you uh anyone here to speak in support of the applicant yes
sir please hello my name is Richard Vice my address is 13316 Fairway Point Drive in Orlando Florida i work for the pool company that sold the job that contracted the contractor to put the screen enclosure up and one item that I
think is of the highest importance um if in fact what we were told is true the reason why the setbacks for the the elite roof the insulated roofs are because in Seminal County there's been a
lot of abuse of putting the roof in and then doing something else with it and not just leaving it as a screen room roof um we have a signed affidavit from the Williams uh stating that they will never turn that room into a into anything other than what it is that's
what they intended to do with it um they're they're a great couple great family beautiful home and so just wanted to step up and say that we've provided the the neighbors and and the homeowners uh affidavit in support of never
allowing it to turn into anything else so that's all thanks thank you sir anyone else to speak in support seeing none anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none gentlemen your
pleasure move to approve second mr who's motion mr beasley beigley i know I got to write the first time i'm sorry we have and a second from the vice chair all those in favor i opposed all right passes enjoy i'm
very sorry about that beley I'm sorry you right the second time right the prior time goodness number three before I embarrass myself again oh that was continued yes sir that's right number four
the board needs to officially continue it to the next month the applicant has requested a continuence due to a personal matter the chair will entertain a motion to continue so made Seconded all right all those in favor opposed it's continued
number four please sorry clerking and doing presentations this evening uh this variance request is for 5329 Bristol Cone Way the property is located in the R1BB zoning district and within the platted subdivision of Astro Grand
at Lake Forest the applicant is seeking a rear yard setback variance from the required 20 ft to 7.5 ft for a 360 square ft screened pergola addition the variance request is for an existing 11 ftx 20ft screen enclosure that is not
the subject of a code enforcement violation the pool screen enclosure meets I'm sorry did am I reading the right one okay sorry the pool screen enclosure meets the required setback is permitted at a reduced setback for the land development code but the screen room is
required to meet principal structure setbacks the applicant has submitted HOA approval the subject property has no prior variances that concludes my presentation and I'm available for any additional questions thank you madam gentlemen questions for staff seeing none is the applicant here
anything you like to share sir you don't have to though no well I just want to say one thing so Chris Peters 5329 Bristol Conway um as she had mentioned we have
HOA approval uh we don't go past the current patio that we've already had put in for our uh back patio pool area um we're staying within that current footprint that a screen enclosure would
cover um we have three kids attend Seml High School they are on the volleyball the soccer and Dazzler dance team we have tons of their friends over tons of school kids over they enjoy the backyard they enjoy the pool it's going to be a
nice enhancement for not only our family but all of the friends and kids that come over and enjoy our backyard so I just wanted to add that and thank you for your time thank you sir gentlemen questions for the applicant seeing none anyone here to
speak in support of this application seeing none anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none your pleasure motion to approve motion to approve from the vice chair second seconded Mr evans
those in favor i I those in opposition all right enjoy sir number five [Applause] this variance request is for 1101 Delulk Road this property is located in the A1
zoning district and is not within a platted subdivision the applicant is seeking a north sideyard setback variance from the required 50 ft to 10 ft for 1500 square ft proposed barn the variance request um for the proposed
barn is 30 feet by 50 ft that is not the subject of code enforcement violation and meets the required setback for the adjacent residential structures per the land development code the applicant will be required to submit a statement of intent as to use and the plans will be stamped for agricultural use only the
subject property has no prior variances that concludes my presentation i'm available for any additional questions thank you gentlemen any questions for staff i have one Mr evans um so because it's agricultural and and
it's a barn so there if so the applicant really could not come back and try to convert this to an ADU at any point they could it would be required to meet all land development code requirements at the time of permitting and come back to us okay
um okay that was all I had for the interim okay any other gentleman is the applicant here yes yes sir please hi my name is Jim Katzer and I'm the owner of the property um I don't live there but I live at 176 South Shadow Bay
in Longwood Semino County uh it's actually not a barn it's a garage uh and it's replacing some existing uh outdated structures which are currently 10 feet there i think we have some pictures mhm so it's a threecar
garage with a bathroom to replace the four There's four units or four old structures there that's replacing and it can show you a an elevation of what's going in there i know the application said barn but that was everything was approved until
they said the use and we said "Well it's tractors for the that we're storing there." So they said "Doesn't that change if the use changes doesn't that change the That was actually going to be my question too he did just state that he's
they're storing agricultural equipment inside of it yeah just tractors and lawyard equipment do we have the pictures to we can show the large ones that I brought in earlier the large one
that's to match the other things on the thing do we have the old picture no it's it shows where the old structure was okay there's just some I think it might be there's four old sheds that are three old sheds and an old bathroom that's there it's replacing that basically in
the same area [Applause] that's all I have thank you any questions for the applicant so if my understanding if I'm taking a look at some of the drawings you had shared with us is this going to be the
same distance from the property line as the existing structures yes it is parallel with the the current ones are 10 ft gotcha thank you sir thank you anyone here to speak in support of this application seeing none anyone to speak in
opposition seeing none gentlemen move to approve move to approve mr beigley any second second second from the vice chair any need for discussion i have one question yes sir please um for
staff normally we don't see an accessory structure whatever you want to call it barn shed that has a bathroom plumbing and that doesn't in my in history here that seems to always trip a threshold when it comes to uh building
something that has plumbing associated with it um what's our what's our pros and cons I guess you know I don't know what the specific answer I'm looking for right kathy Hamill Development Services um it was our policy several years ago not to allow restrooms into accessory
buildings because we were having issues with people converting them over to living quarters once we adopted our accessory dwelling unit um regulations we do now allow for the restrooms but
we're just very mindful about um allowing them the full like on the electrical allowing them like the 220 um and if they do then they would have to come through and have it approved as an ADU if they wanted to convert it over okay well you answered my question
because that that was the concern I had is that so you're right that was kind of you know not on our hit list so yeah I didn't know you're right thank you no more questions sir got it so we have a motion we have a second all
those in favor I opposed all right enjoy thank you number six hold on one second can you do the PowerPoint please okay Angie Gates item number six is a request
for a westside yard setback variance from 7 and 1/2 ft to 5 ft and a rear yard setback variance from 10 ft to 7 1/2 ft for a shed in the PD Plan Development District located at 428
Eagle Circle the subject property is also in the Sterling Park unit 2 subdivision the proposed shed will be 200 square feet and will encroach two and a half feet miss Gates I I apologize for interrupting you but maybe you have our
our images kind of catch up here i was going Oh there i'm sorry please continue okay sorry about that the proposed shed will be 200 square feet and will encroach 2 and 1/2 ft into the required west side yard
setback and 2 and 1/2 ft into the required rear yard setback two letters of support were submitted by adjacent neighbors along with Sterling Park Homeowners Association approval letter the rear of the property backs up to a green belt easement that is being
used for the Sterling Park Community Recreation Common Area there have not been any prior variances for the subject property and this concludes my presentation thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions for staff seeing none is the applicant here
anything you'd like to add sir no all righty i have a question either ask staff or gentlemen if you want if you'd come on up please sir just share with us your name and address and I'm sorry she's getting his walk oh you guys stay right here we have a mic
that's There we go yeah don't Don't Yeah my question is fairly straightforward simple so I don't you don't need to get up we have a veteran we will come to you thank you um my question is go back to
the survey the B planet survey that one um in that lower corner there what would be diagonal from where the shed's being positioned um there's a box there with an X through it is that a structure of some sort it's a cable box
oh so it's just a utility good okay thank you i I that's all I was really looking for so thank you any other questions for the applicant seeing none um is there anyone here to speak in support of the application seeing none anyone here to
speak in opposition seeing none gentlemen motion to approve second motion approved from the vice chair seconded by Mr beley all those in favor i opposed enjoy your sir and ma'am
number seven item number seven is a request for a front yard setback variance from 25 ft to 1 ft for a garage addition in the R1A single family dwelling district in the Orienta Gardens subdivision located at 104 Uno Lane the
proposed garage addition will be 540 square ft and will encroach 24 ft into the required front yard setback there have not been any prior variances for this subject property and this concludes my presentation thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions for staff
i have one and it might be for the applicant as well but um this this property is kind of a an odd one because the the driveway is so far from the property line itself how far is it from the property line to the actual edge of
the street the edge of the asphalt yes i thought it was 28 according to the site plan that says 28 okay so even if we gave the variance there would still be 28 ft from the edge of the asphalt all the way to the new garage correct okay all right we can continue hi there hello
make sure your your name and address whoever is going to speak um my name is Joshua this is Robin uh surname Banks 104 Lane so the reason for our request is that we are growing our family we have two children at home and one on the way and we are out growing the space um so the
additional garage will just give us some more room to expand within our home um like you noted there's plenty of room from our actual property line even moving that one foot um to the end of the property line into the street um so there's you know the property line's a little funky but still plenty of room um
and so yeah we're looking forward to and there'll be thinking about what we would what we heard earlier as well there'll be no you know water or any kind of uh alterations in that it'll just be just a garage it'll be you know three walls and
a garage door at the front makes sense gentlemen any questions for the applicant uh yeah I have one um so the the garage currently there is essentially being converted to living space and then the garage coming the variance would be your actual new car
garage so for storage or whatever you're using it for with kids right um okay all right and of course we'll get the correct permitting and ask for the inside additions and and changes sounds good any other questions i I have a question whether the applicant can ask
others or not but can we pull up the site plan so I was just validating i'm not sure who drew this up but the property shows that diagonal piece where the one foot encrot the property line is kind of
overlapping the diagonal part but the plat shows a square lot i'm trying to figure out where the difference in the property lines are um the plat what is the plat i'm I'm sorry the tax assessor's map um if you go to the We have it in our image
so am I allowed to provide any context to that at all for his question if you know the answer so if you look at that the the tax assessor's maps you show a square a square rectangle but the site plan shows kind of a an angled corner in
the front where the garage is at i was just trying to validate why there's a difference when we bought the house that's kind of what we saw so we had contract uh we had contacted a contractor and we had had them draw it all up and they pulled the site and
they're like "Time out you have a very peculiar shot." Cuz we thought we thought that was ours cuz again that's what we saw when we when we bought the property three and a half years ago i think I think a survey the survey that we received when we bought the house
showed that lot line um and I think that's what they used as well so okay i'm not completely it was a bit of a surprise here or there i'm just I'm just trying there's a there's a difference there that Mr show up on our uh taxers maps if you'll take a look on on that
same page that staff has pulled up and if you'll take a look at the aerial photo and the white lines if you look in the top left because this photo is flipped from the image that matches the applicants line yep mr evans is that what you were going to say so so
so I had to go into the MLS for this because the lot line was so so janky and so crazy so when I went into the MLS which is integrated with the realist and and ArcGIS type maps it does show that the lot line comes down at this really odd diagonal so it it goes down really
oddly and then goes straight across um so I obviously I can't speak to why it's like that it could be you know for the for uh uh the gullies on the front end of the I have no idea right i won't speak to the land code but I will say that it is showing on my proprietary
information as a real estate agent um showing this odd lot line and so that is I would assume a federal federally noted and state noted property line um the way it's shown on this survey for whatever that's worth couldn't tell
you why but I did do extra research on this one because it was weird miss H you have thoughts i have thoughts excellent oh wow is that the original plat yes oh
wow up the plat and you can see here's that diagonal right there mhm matching the one below it interesting but the street doesn't go if you go all the way down the street there's a property that is taking up the entirety
of the street people actually driving through someone's property to get to their properties it's a very odd road who knows what the situation was at the time that was created maybe big trees or something lots of big trees yes actually we have enormous campus trees on that
that stretch there probably designated as their landmarks at the time could be you know back in the 40s and the street at the end is Hataway oh really oh you didn't know that yeah that's where my my greatgrandfather moved in this area have to talk to you
about speed bumps on Hataway that's probably another speed demon slow down all right jeez 25 my three-year-old says it sorry Miss H well thank you so much for finding that and sharing very much appreciate it uh gentlemen any any any
other questions for the applicant right thank you all so much uh anyone here to speak in support of this application anyone to speak in opposition seeing none gentlemen motion to approve motion approved mr evans second mr beley
seconded those in favor i opposed all right best of luck with the new young number eight please item number eight is a request for a rear yard setback variance from 30 feet to 25 ft and a
north side yard setback variance from 10 ft to 6 ft for a second story edition in the R1A single family district in the Lakewood Shores first edition subdivision located at 210 Cherrywood Drive
the proposed second story addition will be approximately 606 square ft and will encroach 4 and 1/2 ft into the required rear yard setback and 4 feet into the required north sideyard setback the existing residence is a legal non-conforming structure that was built
prior to the earliest Seminal County zoning regulations being adopted in 1960 there have not been any prior variances for the subject property and this concludes my presentation thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions for staff i have one um
so when I was doing research on this one um I noted that there really aren't any two-story structures in the area except for potentially two one actually on Cherrywood which I believe is a duplex a converted just like this one would be an older home 1960 or whatever year you're
built um and then converted to a duplex and there's another one I believe on Maple or Brier i I think Brierwood's to the east or it's it's two streets to the east um that it looks like it was the garage conversion straight up into a twotory so I just want to make sure like
is there anything that our board should be considering in terms of this variance when it comes to a twostory structure in a neighborhood that really has there isn't anything that limits them except for our height height requirement and in height okay right okay cool just want to make sure okay good question uh is the
applicant here can I one more um vice chair the 255 and the six foot they are currently to the existing first story yes foundation um yes so and just based
on the graphic that I'm looking at um the second story doesn't appear to go all the way to the rear of the house you're correct be the site plan or the front
correct so I guess my question is so is the portion that we're looking at tonight the addition isn't 25 it's it's actually greater than 25 it's actually the single family residence that's existing for the rear yes so it it'll bring the existing
home into in compliance okay and since they're adding the square footage they have to apply for the variance for the sideyard as well sure understood because the entire structure is subject And honestly that's that's the only thing I was trying to figure out cuz it you know
while it's while it's an application to get approval for the second story it bottom line is we're approving an after the fact for the original a change to the existing structure but legal non-conforming yeah correct okay thank you good question love our engineers he
always has the good ones engineers smart guys uh is the applicant here that's why we weren't lawyers come on down if you would like to please what's that said that's why we're not lawyers he said you look great tonight i hear that all the time that's what Dan was saying
yes ma'am hi actually my husband's name is on the application but I'm Christie Baziva and we bought this house to be built for our daughter and that's it you know we like the neighborhood it close to our work but
she got married and she just bought the house last month now we have to build it for us because we have high HOA and I really like the area there it's close to 1792 but it's all really old house and
the roof is collapsed inside and they left it like this got you i appreciate it for your help any any questions for the applicant have Have you guys chatted with your neighbors to see if they're
okay with Yes uh Aneta actually the woman who owns the duplex she she build it uh she called me like maybe two weeks ago when we put the sign to come over i don't know i didn't see her uh but she
said she has similar problem um and she said she will support us if you need you know her vote um the other way we don't know the rest of the neighbors uh on the right side they trying to sell the house i think they flipped it uh on the left
side the guys living living in Jacksonville for now that's what I heard from her and um not really on the back it's apartment complex that's why we don't have a contact with them
sounds good all right thank you ma'am thank you is there anyone here to speak in support of this application seeing none anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none gentlemen I have one more question for staff if you don't mind i'm sorry Mr evans yes for sure um so I was just waiting for opposition and
support um so based on on something uh she said I just want to confirm with staff based on the Cherrywood address and this is this based on the research I saw as well the the Cherrywood address at the end of the culde-sac that got turned into the duplex I believe is also like the original home just like this
one had the flat composite roof and then got built up and out so it's essentially the same project that we're looking at here okay I I'm asking for confir Sorry all right no worries then well that's I think what I found i mean
I know that there is a portion of this area that was reszoned mhm i know that but I didn't research so from what I I researched variances i didn't research the rest of the No that's okay and and I only did it because adding a twotory is
such a difficult and intense project and I was curious if any homes in the area because they are so old had done it themselves um and the one I will say on Cherrywood does seem to be that it was originally built at the same time as this one as a ranch style flat flat roofing and then got built into this duplex so for whatever that's worth to
anybody you know information I found thank you for sharing that's all so uh what's the board's pleasure i move to approve motion to approve mr beagley second for Mr evans all those in favor larry seconded
oh oh I'm sorry Larry i'm I knew I I wasn't going to correct him because I just wanted to be able to correct the minutes later on hazing on TV live goodness uh all those in favor i I all those opposed thank you sir all righty enjoy don't leave me
hanging too g number nine and I want to hear this name i was just thinking the same thing you got stuff for this hold on one second let me They said it was Didn't you guys say it was like
England it's It's something in regards from England we'll ask the applicant and see if the applicant knows when he comes up but I believe that when the subdivision was originally being platted I had I said "What kind of name is that?" And the builder at the time told
me but the most awesome it's been a minute so I know it has something to do with England it could be a a town or something but they'll let us know I'm sure all right but anyway item number eight is a request for a rear yard setback variance from 10 ft to 8 ft for
a covered summer kitchen i'm sorry shouldn't for the record you say the address of this property um I'm getting ready to do that you just got to give me a second let me get to it for a summer kitchen in the PD plan development district in the Turnberry
subdivision located at 1301 Tapitori Circle well done the proposed detached summer kitchen will be approximately 144 square ft and will encroach 2 feet into the required rear yard setback the rear of the property abuts the Heathro Golf and
Country Club course golf course excuse me there have not been any prior variances for this subject property and this concludes my presentation thank you madam gentlemen any questions for staff seeing none is the applicant here do we
have questions did I say it right thank you San all those compliments are now coming back please share with us your name and especially your address sir again yes uh Nick Perfidto my wife Susan Perfidto we live at 1301 Tapy Tory Circle in
Heathrow the origin of the name is because this is actually the last subdivision built in Heathrow there is no more land if you're familiar with the Heathrow Golf Course originally number
nine was a par4 dog leg left it is now a par three that land was taken originally because they were going to move the swim and tennis club next to the country club that never happened they were left with the land they decided to build out homes so there's about 23 homes in that
subdivision tapy Tories is actually a pub that runs along the 18th hole oh of I'm going to forget the name of the course in Scotland the the the the famous course in Scotland oh oh oh St
andrews st andrews yes thank you so that's where the name supposedly came from that's awesome very cool what you really want to do is a pub we want to do on the golf course
not a bad idea a couple of comments this is hopefully the end of about a year-long process of trying to figure out how we can best enhance and beautify a 25 ft deep backyard um we originally
thought we had a 5-ft setback we were told by our contractor "No you in fact have a 20ft setback and the house sits at 25." So we originally were looking at doing a complete buildout of a covered outdoor living area we found out that
wouldn't fly so now the only thing as I understand it that we need the variance for is our summer kitchen which is coming from Paradise Grills has a fixed covering on it in order to sink
those footings for the covering that's what we need the setback for everything else is patio hedges fence the like which doesn't require the variance so it's just those where those posts are going to be planted for that
covering final thought we are western facing in the back so we get clobbered by the sun that would be the only covering that we have back there over that summer kitchen area the rest of it's going to be open gotcha perfect gentlemen any
questions see none thank you sir that was that was very informative anyone any anyone member any member of the audience here to speak in support of this matter seeing none anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none gentlemen your
pleasure you got ahead Mr all right motion to approve and a second all those in favor i opposed all right enjoy your pub thank you invitations in the mail i'll be waiting
and now all right number 10 please ethics training mary Robinson planner and code enforcement officer with development services this is a request for front yard setback variance from 50 ft to 28
ft to construct a pool screen enclosure in the A1 Agriculture District at 3301 Celery Avenue this site is on the south side of Celery Avenue it's not in a platted subdivision he's requesting to replace a pool screen enclosure that was
destroyed by Hurricane Milton it since it does not meet the setbacks it's a non-conforming structure and typically if they're considered um destroyed more than 50% they can't be
replaced unless they meet all the applicable setbacks so uh there haven't been any prior variances for the property and this concludes my presentation gentlemen any questions for staff
was the uh the original I mean was the original enclosure built at a time that allowed it at that point no okay all right so was it was not lawfully permitted but it's just been there for a while it's I don't didn't do the
research on if it was lawfully permitted but it's a pretty old property and I think the pool has been there quite quite a few years you can definitely see how the world is built around them there right gotcha thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions for any other questions for
staff he may have had the additional property because at one point in time um Celery there was a take for part of Celery Avenue in front of his property gotcha just one more simple on the
u the even that image that we have on the screen right now there's two uh narrow narrow parcels lines on both sides on the left and right side um do we know what those are they're tracks
they're tracks part of the the plan development that's over there right correct because um Cameron is it Cameron Estates um that around the house yeah okay so those are tracks because I did the research for you and
tracks is just in like like buffers buffers landscape tracks whatever okay okay thank you yeah because when you say that you notice like their their their fence goes right up to the red though those still yeah gotcha any other questions for staff seeing none is the applicant here
yes sir please come on up good evening yes sir i'm Robert Clapper 2386 Pavilion Terrace i am the contractor for the pool enclosure um we did research with the ladies upstairs and it was permitted in 1985 we found um
the structure was knocked down by um Hurricane Milton in October and they just want to replace the actual structure um it is actually you know not counting their property line it is almost 50 feet from the road it's very close to that but with their property
line we need that extra couple of feet to make it 50 um there is actually like a a fence up there and those hedges are a lot bigger uh right there too kind of covering it at the same area and it's going to be the same exact structure a dome pool enclosure
gotcha any other question any questions for the applicant so it sounds like just this was permitted back you said in the mid 80s in the intervening time the land development code was amended and now you're non-conforming you were knocked down yeah gotcha gotcha any other
questions gentlemen all right thank you sir anyone in the audience to speak in support of this matter anyone here to speak in opposition seeing none your pleasure gentlemen move to approve motion to approve second second oh I missed it go
ahead second and third mr all those in favor i opposed all right there you go enjoy very much and now number 11 our last one yes Mary Robinson again for the record uh this is
a request for an east side yard setback variance from 10 feet to 7 and 1/2 ft and a rear yard setback variance from 30 ft to 10 ft for a screen enclosure in the R1A single family zoning district at 2458 Southern Sunderland
Road uh the subject of property is located in the English estate subdivision like I said it's R1A the variance is for a screen enclosure with a composite roof system so they're required to meet the principal setbacks uh same as the
home and this is going to replace an existing open screen enclosure which is in disrepair the uh like I said has to meet the same 30-foot setback as the home and that there are no prior variances for the subject property and that concludes
my presentation thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions for staff i've got one evans um so just like the the previous item we had earlier today you know this is coming up because it's got the composite does the screen enclosure when it was originally
permitted meet this the setbacks of today that we're looking at well it was a open I think we if you go back it was an open screen enclosure a pool screen enclosure and they have shorter setbacks right but it did meet yes so the footprint they're building on does meet
pool enclosure it's just because it has a composite roof composite roof correct correct just want to clarify good question any other questions for staff all right is our applicant here excellent you'll have all the answers contractor
i'm Carrie Maro 1065 East Broadway Oido Florida so it's um the structure is replacing the exact structure that's existing there's nothing new being added or taken away so when the homeowner bought the home in 2011 it had this structure there and so it's very very
old i think it was installed in 1980 like you were saying 1984 1985 yeah so it's exact same thing nothing's being changed gotcha thank you ma'am gentlemen any questions i I just want to be clear
so wait I was listening before so the this composite roof system that was there in the original it was there when she purchased the home in 2011 so she's not sure exactly when that composite roof was installed but the screen enclosure part is the only part that's
being replaced thank you for And question for staff she's Well the aerial showing just the screen well I mean this part right here is a flat mhm that That's what I was thinking there's a little flat composite roof there is that what we're seeing kind of in that top
right corner yeah right right there gotcha on the pool it's the top right it looks like yeah that's a flat patio roof huh i missed that gentlemen any other questions for the contractor
this looks like Thank you ma'am thanks and vice chair you had a question for staff well I just I just was sorry maybe I missed something in the conversation from Mr evans question so when the structure was
permitted the difference now what we were talking about is it has a composite proof but based on what was presented to us that was already an existing condition when it was approved the first time hold on let me clarif um Kathy H let me
clarify this are you trying to say that they're replacing the same that it was a composite roof solid roof before and now they're just replacing it again i just Thank you M i I was just concerned it sounded like we were we were looking at this differently than what was conditioned before because of a
composite roof but it sounds like it's same same now that there was no difference and I was trying to establish why we were distinguishing something different because there was a composite roof in this application it was an O as you can see from the aerial it was an open screen and they did have a portion
of it that's composite but because they're taking the open screen on the cage making it solid then it comp has the entire the entire structure has a composite roof that's my understanding the new screen enclosure will have an that's that's the difference i I didn't
cap I didn't see that the the new solid roof will not cover that whole pole okay that was my It's just that composite one area yeah I thought it was covering the whole also because that's that's what I had captured that there was a difference and that's what I was trying seemed like there was a a discrepancy somewhere
between what we were hearing so then the the the open enclosure is not getting a composite we're just replacing the composite that's already there i'm sorry ma'am just I apologize for the record if we can I think she's saying
they're replacing the screen room replacing the the pool the screen pool enclosure is being replaced with composite so no with just in screen okay yes with screen okay no additional composite is going to be installed no no it has a composite little section and
then the screen enclosure that's there is old it's being taken off and a new screen enclosure is going where the existing one is okay so screens going to screen is the composite being replaced as well with composite no the composite's not being touched so then I guess to staff what
what really are we giving the variance for the permit application is for a screen pool enclosure look at your site plan the site plan looks like it's composite it says building new up-to-date bronze dome screen enclosure
with composite roof system i guess Mr evans am I hearing your question then is that if this is substantially the same as what's existing why is a variance being right if if the pool enclosure the open screen it's just being replaced with screen and
and the original enclosure was conforming and permitted why are we providing a variance for an open screen enclosure we submitted the the plans and it went through review then at that point we were told that the that the we were told it was never permitted that
this was not permitted when it was installed there's not even a permit showing for the pool i missed that i missed that too yeah so that's what we were told when we submitted for permitting and that then we were told you can't do this you need a variance and then we proceeded to submit the items to get a variance we had a little
bit of a little bit of conflict between testimony and and packet there gotcha right good evening megan Zenorski project coordinator um I actually reviewed the permit when it came through to give you some clarity based on the site plan that was provided it did look like they were placing composite roof
over the entire pool we do see that from time to time um and that since there were no permits in place at the time that this would have been permitted we really didn't have a formal building division to permit these so it could have had a permit could have not had a
permit they're past the point of us having records retention for these residential structures so it may appear that she may not need the variance for the composite roof it if it's staying where it is without a site plan that shows that
actual dimension we wouldn't be able to do that today so if you wanted to continue it to provide us an actual site plan so that we could make sure that it complied with the setback requirements for the composite kathy um I feel comfortable in the fact
that it seems like the site plan that she submitted the language made it seem like it was a solid composite roof over the pool if what she's saying now is they're just wanting to do an open screen then she doesn't need to have the
rear yard set back and I feel comfortable with the only one I'm questioning is the sideyard or the existing composite roof so for for me I feel as though we can take care of this tonight and not have her go
through the hassle of having to go through another um meeting i agree because it sounds like what we're discussing here is a problem of government and not the applicant i'm sorry it may meet the Gentlemen do you need to hear more or have you heard enough i've heard enough i've heard
enough the board the board the board is satisfied with what we've heard so far so I'll close the floor okay uh your pleasure gentlemen mr beley do you have a motion i move to approve Mr chair about five minutes ago I moved to approve so we have a second
from the vice chair so what's what's the what's the motion just just for posterity cuz I know there's there's some discrepancy between the written record and the testimony tonight um I just want to make sure that we're clear
on what the actual motion is tonight my understanding and Mr bigley you correct me if I'm wrong is that you are moving to approve the application before yes right and that's actually that's there's no harm no foul on that for her to have variance it's going to
be a moot point anyways so exactly okay so one question on that if we approve the variance right then it becomes recorded onto the the property correct so if in the future they ever wanted to put a solid composite roof on it yes they can do it it's okay okay all right
because it runs with the land all right well if they're cool with that that's cool just wanted to make sure we're clear on that point better safe than sorry absolutely do we need to open that point up to discussion to the board no we do not all right all those in favor
those in opposition run while you can all right now next thing we we do have our our our ethics presentation from the county attorney's office but um with if the board does not object I'd like us before we get to that to go ahead and just dispose of the ethics uh I the
ethics I'm looking at my notes are the minutes we're gonna we're going to home early just moves up the minutes into the chair i'll entertain a motion on the minutes move to approve motion to approve we have a second we have a second all those
in favor it passes by acclamation yes all right guys you're leaving when it gets exciting well or do did you have a do you have something to come before the board um Boston i thought we were supposed to cuz we're going for a
variance and I didn't guys call us up what's the address uh one is 116 LER road you're April that's April how long is this get back home how long is the
ethics need to get back home but depends on you through various licensing oh many times yeah if you need to vote for Might be outach outach outach outach outach
outach outach outach outach outachbert okay mr how long is the uh then it should be then how long is this part i need to get home so I I can probably do it in about 30 minutes i'll see you i've done it well
no i've I need to go ahead and boogie family family obligation family obligation so I've been through the correct me if I'm wrong i don't need to do this annually correct just what just we'll just make a note for the record just that M Mr beley was leaving the the
meeting just to make sure just it's on the record yes are we making on the record that he has no ethics or are we just Well I mean I correct me if I'm wrong i think through the other you know licensing and your your your um your time with with the state you've gone through ethics
training also yes I have yes but but yes absolutely run run run while you can we'll suffer for you screaming thank you sir see you next month it's something's at the end but yeah it said
ethics but didn't show the We may not have it after all oh that was just the agenda I didn't see it in the file either let me see if it's in the other one move to next month is that you know what it's fine you know what we're going to do you're going to do it on Is that Is that
an iCloud thing you could just port it over it looks like they're just We're just going to swipe it under the camera my notes y'all are about to learn yeah we're we're gonna we'll do it we'll do it live mr mchugh I've been I've been trying cases for 30 years welcome
welcome to the way it used to be done yeah yeah i've never I've never uh It's funny i've never actually maneuvered this i'm not sure if Can we get the camera yeah i've given this
presentation a handful of times i think I can get us out of here in about 30 minutes all right so let's see here got a timer all right so here we go here we go all right so here so as you know providing a 30,000 foot view of the
Sunshine Law ethics public records quasi the quasi judicial process i know that some of you well you right now is uh an attorney so you're very familiar with this i know you've all been on the board for quite some time have heard familiar with this so try to breeze through so board of adjustment was created by the
county commission um members serve four years by the way please we're teasing you but don't feel rushed oh yeah yeah please um so your duties are set forth in the land development code at 30.332 um as you know your powers are to hear
appeals from the planning manager and to grant variances uh to chapter 30 based on the hardship criteria codified in chapter 30 the land development code apologize to her real quick as as as county staff has been shifting is Jose
now the planning manager he is okay sorry yeah i'm sorry he's he's Jose Gomez is the development services director director i think is Joy Giles the planning is it whoever took whomever took um um
Rebecca's job um Jose um took the director position um Dale left and Joy is taking Dale's planning manager position gotcha gotcha gotcha gotcha thank you okay and then of course your limitations you know you can't grant
variance for um the non-conforming use in the area or uh based on a use from a neighboring property that's in non-conformance um of course as you already know for the sunshine law requires public access to uh meetings of
state and local officials um basically protects the the public to you know become privy to um decision- making and uh considerations that impact the the local community so no smoky backroom deals at the what's the what's the
what's the pub tabatory no no smoke no backroom deals at the tabiator um so the uh what's covered in the sunshine law it's basically any formal business that can foreseeably become before this board so anything kind of that pertains to the
subject matter of this board uh is captured by the sunshine so it doesn't notably it doesn't apply to um meetings between different board members so like if there was if you were meeting with a board member from a different body that would not be applicable or if you were
to meet with staff that wouldn't be applicable between two or more members of this board that's when it would be applicable um and notably I did research this decision here how v stembridge and maybe Mr haway maybe you can comment on this i've never seen anything that
defines foreseeability in the decisional law or in the statute so I think suffice it to say foreseeability is just just use kind of a common sense rule it's it's a reasonable man it's a reason Yeah exactly and woman yes all right um so um
Sunshine Law sets out three requirements for meetings um open to the public reasonable notice uh to the public that of the meetings and the minutes be taken um recordings can be made as long as the recordings are transcribed into a
verbatim record um so what is a meeting it's obviously very broad as I discussed it's discussions between two or more members of the same body um text it could be applicable to really almost any communication um and as you all know
that um category is only increasing in terms of the availability of how we communicate um notably beware of reply all this has gotten some folks in trouble in the past where they unwittingly violate the sunshine law by replying all to uh a thread and not
saying that another member of the board is on that thread so just be cognizant of that quick quick question also for clarification it's it's conversations between two or more members of something like you'd said that's reasonably going to come before this board correct not as
for like example uh Judge Bravo couldn't show up and he said "Would you mind terribly please letting the clerk know that I can't make it?" That's two of us discussing things but not not anything that's going to come before this board yeah not not anything that would um cover what the the function of this
board right um so yeah more ministerial thing like that I don't I don't think would would run a foul of of of the sunshine good because I just admitted it on TV um so this lays out the penalties for violations so civil civil penalty penalties uh notice uh you can see some
of my chicken scratch here uh it's actually a strict liability standard uh for for civil penalties so you don't even have to be there's no knowing or willful element the the criminal side there is a um uh knowing element in
there so if you and know that you're violating and you still go forward anyway that's kind of gets you over into the criminal c category um so basically those coverage is fines and penalties i believe um for civil
penalties that includes attorney's fees um so consequences of violation um so basically any action taken at that meeting that was in violation of the sunshine is voided
um if so also notably the uh concept of qualified immunity doesn't may not may not um be applicable to the board if if especially if it's really egregious so the board member who violates or board
members who violate the sunshine may have to hire private counsel um so voting requirements everyone's got to vote uh unless they have a valid conflict um conflicts include um basically anything that would ignore
to his or her private gain or relatives or a principal slash employer um so if you do have a conflict um you have to make a declaration of a conflict uh before there's any discussion on the
item and then you may after that you may participate in the discussion um but you can't vote on that on that item uh after um actions been taken on that item the the board member that has the conflict has uh 15 days to file a form 8B which
is basically uh I think it's called a memorandum of conflict it's a form promulgated by the commission on ethics um we have copies of that and basically it's an affidavit where you just outline your your conflict and you submit it
um can't accept gifts um yeah that's pretty intuitive uh no unauthorized compensation so basically this kind of basically without saying it talks about
bribery um can't do that um can't misuse your public position so basically using your status as a board member as leverage um so no kind of Mavavelian uh house of cards type moves using your
your board member status um you can't have conflicting employment or contractual relationships so I don't I don't believe I I can't of course this is a very factual situation i I I can't
imagine anybody on this board that would have um an issue with with this um trying to provide an example um maybe if you were like a contractor and that required you to during the permitting process to come before this board that
could be problematic and could potentially preclude you from participating on the board um can I Yeah just just for clarity um as an engineer I work with local company they potentially have contracts with seminal
county right um you know uh typically my company we file a conflict of interest which means kind of eliminates me from being taking active part right in those contracts but um is there anything I have as a board have to file with seminal county to
state that you know that might that that could potentially fall under the enor to your principal benefit to your principal to your employer um and of course you know I'll give you the classic lawyer answer it depends um so that would be if that were factually were to develop in
your course of your your membership um I would definitely that would be something that we would need to look at closer u I think just to air on side of caution I would just abstain if that ended up developing to the point where it's never I mean it's it's happened once in my
career you know with company that I worked with and a and a board that I was on but you know and I abstained and you know filed a conflict and did all that there's nothing there's nothing I need to you know worry about in a sense other than if something should come up I just need to Yeah announce it yeah no that's
correct um and that kind of goes into recurring conflicts and I couldn't quite find anything again it doesn't really dive into like the granular details of what recurring means but like your example for um of you know your employment that wouldn't even come close to recurring in my opinion i think it
would be something where it's almost constant and it's you're constantly having to remove yourself from participation because of because of your employer having a recurring conflict so that example once in a blue moon I think that's completely permissible
um so for ethics complaints um so the county attorney's office does not provide legal defense um board members must hire private counsel if there's ever an ethics complaint complaint filed against you um now I don't have any personal experience with this this may
require further research if you're interested um the county attorney's office will render um maybe like as a preliminary opinion um on certain ethics related situations if uh hasn't matured
to um beyond I guess the the complaint or if it's kind of like the writing is on the wall there's some issues um but again I don't have any personal experience with that i don't think anybody in our office has any experience with that so that's something hopefully if you all just use common sense we
don't have to have any issue with that um yeah to to to that point uh just to expand on it a bit is is the county attorney's office comfortable with us bringing them a hypothetical based on facts you know before the meeting saying
"Oh yeah I'm concerned I might have a conflict you guys can Absolutely great." Absolutely yeah absolutely and and I welcome that m um you know anytime we can anticipate those things and hash them out before the meeting the better you know so absolutely good question uh
okay so public records as you know especially in Florida very very broad you know it's created the the Florida man essentially that's what our broad public records policy has done um basically I mean it's it's any communication medium that that that
transmits uh perpetuates and formula uh for uh formulates It's knowledge of an agency so I mean it could be really it could be again text messages post-it notes whatever i mean it doesn't have to even be a finished product on agency
letter head it could be even notes um it's very broad um so it's just another way of of basically phrasing the uh public records uh definition um goes more into you know not having to be in
final form all right okay yep more examples text messages emails memoranda reports handwritten notes so public records law basically
gives uh the citizenry um opportunity to have uh records captured by the law produced by the custodian in their form within a reasonable amount of time um if if we were to get a public records request you know as a custodian we would just produce what we have it doesn't
require us to put it in a certain formatting or you know put more work than necessary into it um now this is excluding items that are exempt and or confidential um so penalties for
violation um again attorney's fees can be assessed uh board member removal um civil and criminal p penalties uh I highly recommend if you have a public records request or anything it doesn't even need to there's
been a handful of times I've handled a public records request where that that phraseiology is not is not used but what essentially the person is doing is a public records request so anytime someone from the public comes at you and wants XYZ that could fall under this
category treat it as a public records request or if you have any questions either call me or this is a good contact with the uh county manager's office uh they could guide you in in the right direction um quasi judicial decisions
quasi judicial um entities um so you all are a quasi judicial uh entity um where you are applying law you're applying the land development code uh whereas legislative
um entities are making policies making law um so you all act as both judge and jury um basically um you know right here that the evidence standard is is competent substantial
evidence which which is found in the record and so that's that's an interesting point so competent substantial evidence and again Mr hathaway I don't want to belabor any points or anything i know you've all heard this yeah go ahead so this is a question I don't want to
cause issues here but James tonight okay so in I've been on boards for 29 years one of the things that I've always been told was that we're quasi judicial we accept the evidence that's been presented to us either by staff or the applicant right
make our decisions based on that I get concerned you know when you're standing here making I researched on my MLS you know that we're not here to create evidence and and introduce evidence we're only supposed to hear and make our
decisions on that um and I I was just I wanted to ask just because on my city board that I served on for 20 years a couple of our board members were removed because of that we had an engineer that worked for Semol County that was using Semol County's website
and re records to introduce his own stuff to our our items and and then another gentleman did the same thing so I I'm asking the question just in general not Yeah to throw you under the bus but is just basically that that's always been an uncomfortable area for me
yeah and I just was looking for clarification if you know like what happened tonight right doing that if that's a concern you know or should we issue caution to that yeah absolutely i think I think there should definitely be caution introducing
um outside um material that isn't part of the record but of course um becomes part of the record once it's introduced um now that doesn't prohibit uh board members in fact it's encouraged the board members why you were selected to
use your expertise and knowledge and apply that to your decision- making and whenever you render a decision so in certain examples I think if you're doing your due diligence you're doing your research I think yeah there is a risk where you could kind of go a little bit
too far and get to that side but I think if if it's more limited and you're just applying your skill set and you're just looking at you know what's available on the record or maybe yeah maybe if you look up something on the map maybe you want to look a little bit further i don't see a problem with that but again
it is a very fine line um so I I do recommend caution but but there certainly isn't any problem with you applying your skill sets in the in the decision-m process it's not that you have to be completely blind to that or dismiss what
you have to offer um because I mean ultimately that's why you've been selected to sit on this board and and I and thank you i agree like I said I just and like I said I'm not I've I've seen it adversely affect other board members when they started using going beyond
their expertise and basically saying they did their own research with their own differences of software and and you even used the word my proprietary MLS software and so you kind of in my mind crossed over that sure and that's fair i mean honestly I mean this this is my
first ethics train within this and and truly I mean to me it was using due diligence and my expertise but I do absolutely see and and I think part of the the distinction and and correct me this isn't the county commission this is a judicial board a quasi judicial board
is the we are judges yes right that's the difference though I mean we act like judges and we make our decision based on based on what's presented and that's why we have the opportunity to question everybody because where there might be holes or where something might not make sense to
us we fill that in that in yeah and and and I and again to remphasize my point I I would heir on the side of caution and depend more on what the application uh itself and what's been produced now to your point the board of county commissioners you're right they they
wear multiple hats right you know so in in you know in the morning they're they they could be wearing their your their legislative hat um and then in the afternoon quasi judicial hearings they're wearing their quasid judicial hat and they're just applying the code
that's that's in existence so very very good questions but as a quasi judicial body um your evidence standard is um competent substantial evidence which essentially means evidence that a reasonable mind if someone were to just like walk in and say how did they come
to this decision and they look at the paper trail they look at the record and some a reasonable person could draw an inference on okay I could see how they got there that in a nutshell is qu competent substantial evidence and that's what what you all are relying
upon Um of course you know basic due process principles are also uh meant to be adhered to so notice and opportunity to be heard um I scratched out cross-examine witnesses um that's not something that
you all do so we just disregard that um that's something from a previous presentation that I didn't I didn't catch um you'll see that maybe more in P&Z things [Music] so um this is another important um
component and there's actually some case law on point with this exparte communications so it's important um before before I would say even before discussion but especially before a decision is rendered that you
communicate any communication you may have had with the applicant um so that doesn't necessarily prohibit the person or exclude them from voting but in for principles of fairness the
applicant or maybe um staff they need to be aware of that information so they can potentially rebut it or you know respond to it so it's important that that's kept in mind yes and and I apologize if I'm stepping on your toes to add to that am
I correct and also saying that the applicant or someone in opposition they've got a first amendment right to lobby us as extensions of the government uh and we can talk to those people but back to your point that's why we really have an important obligation to say "By
the way the applicant called me we had this conversation this is what we talked about." That needs that needs to be divulged and again so there's nothing wrong with the conversation you just have to divulge it correct correct uh and I will say this I would caution against
presenting yourself in that way where all of a sudden now we're getting applicants approaching individual board members um but if there was a case where someone did their homework like hey you know Jim Hatway is the chairman i'm going to shoot him an email you know that of course would not preclude you from participating you could still vote
on the matter but you need to divulge what that email was so staff has an opportunity to know what what what was going on what was being said and they can rebut it they can they can there could be a discussion about it um all right that used to happen a lot
it doesn't doesn't happen much anymore really yeah it used to happen i mean I guess people I guess people know now i used to get people calling me and you know they wanted something but Yeah so again um this is just goes back into just establishing a clear record just
you know review is is limited to um what's in the application and the evidence submitted uh by the applicant um of course this doesn't preclude you as a board member and your expertise and your due diligence from inquiring and adding to the discussion and bringing
certain issues to light that maybe was missed by staff maybe was missed by the applicant um so I mean overall this is really key for of course create creating a clear record um for posterity and also you
know if if if one of your decisions gets challenged and then it gets appealed to the BCC you know their appeal uh standard is denovo so they're looking at it's basically a redo and so at this level we needed to establish make sure that there was a clear establishment of
a record of why we were we came to a decision that we made even whenever we make certain motions I think it's important to emphasize that outlining the motion and and why we why we're we're coming to the decision that we're
coming to i think it helps um establish a clear record especially in if there's an appeal or something that's more controversial um this just kind of reemphasizes just you know using your own um expertise um
and just the the the unique um varied backgrounds that you all provide and and offer uh to this uh to this board when whenever you are deliberating and and coming to your uh or discussing certain issues and and voting on certain issues um you know
balance the equities balance the private interests of property owners um the welfare of the community as a whole the consistency of you know applying the land development code um you know heed heed staff um burden of proof uh is on the
applicant um show that they have met all the criteria that we've set out all the hardship criteria um then the burden shifts to the board basically okay why um that individual may or may not um
have pres presented a a valid case um and and why um basically why the board shouldn't deny u the application um and then this just goes back into uh
substantial competent evidence and we've already discussed that um so yeah that's that's it that was that wasn't too bad and then if if you all 25 minutes oh all right even better um I'm of course I'm I'm I'm going to provide a copy of of
this presentation for you all to have just um to review uh I'm available if you have any additional questions or concerns you want to talk about it more um my extension is 7240 um happy to answer any any
questions or concerns you might have that's it those of us who've been doing this for a while and Larry you might remember is competent substantial evidence used to be experts and the the the Supreme Court of the state has changed that to
be h whatever and it's just that's why we hear so much and certainly on the county commission they have they hear so much and it's it's a that's what maybe about a 5-year-old 5 to 10 year old change to things but yeah it used to be like if you didn't you know you would bring in your engineer your planner all
these people to discuss the matter and that was about all that could be considered yeah now it's just anybody come on in share your thoughts yeah times change yeah and I and I will say that especially you know and and you can see that applied to like you know the evidence standard for example very it
it informal and then of course as as if if if something procedurally goes a different direction and go ends up in court then you start to see a little bit become a little bit more restricted a little bit more formal so that was very well done thank you
thank you thank you i'll entertain the chair the chair will entertain a motion to adjurnn so made seconded all right i'm going to say it's by acclamation we are adjourned thank you thank [Music]