there we go so for the P purpose of the recording this is the Board of Health meeting of March 5th and the whole board is here and um we've got a few things on our
agenda um oh first minutes of last meeting which was February 19th I did circulate those did I not yes okay does anybody have any amendments or
disagreements with them no forward okay well let's let's do that did I hear somebody moving to approve I did Garrett could we have a second second okay all in
favor I I looks looks unanimous thank you much okay the other thing we have an un anticipated business I just got um yesterday from Ezra Cushing the well
driller um a well permit application for number five Birch Drive over on the west side of the lake um and I was a little bit alarmed when I first saw the application because um he was applying
for a variance a setback variance so that the the there's a new septic system comparatively new septic system that's put in in 2013 and um this new well which I think was envisioned at the time but hadn't
been put in um is going to be 70 feet from that new well which is a variance that I think we can easily Grant um he also said that it was 30 ft from the old Cesspool and um
uh I on further um investigation I discovered that the Cesspool was um pumped and filled so not in any way a danger there
and um Ezra has all kinds of plans to um to have to make sure the casing does not allow any um any infiltration from the from the surface and it all looks good to me I can show you if you want me to
to share my screen I can show you where the place is and what the septic system design looks like and and uh some other things or you can take my word for it's entirely up to you if it's not a problem I'd kind of like to see it cat okay
let's see I okay first of all I have to share okay um so let's see okay can you see that okay so that's a picture now I can oh yeah okay okay
that's a picture of them um digging out the the cess poool and and filling it yep or it's picture of them filling it actually and oh that's for something else um we also have
the oh stop that here's the here's the uh septic system plan this is the this is the plot I'm sorry maybe I can make it a little bigger so here's the
house original photo I don't know if you were trying to show something else you're still on the original photo we are oh I'm sorry um oh here we got somebody coming in um oh here we go here we
go uh okay well come up this is weird Okay now have you got the plan yes okay great this is more more steps than I realized so we've got the house garage this looks like like the septic system here here's
a driveway and here's the new well um Ezra offered to have us do a site visit so he could explain why they were putting the Well in that particular spot but I don't know about you guys but I don't have any any expertise in well
location and Ezra does so I'm willing to take his word for it and I can show you some where here yeah can I just ask you again you said this is Ezra Cushing yeah yeah
okay and uh somewhere I thought I had another piece I guess that's all I guess that's all so so my my question is the SES oh I see
now I've just zoomed in a little bit and I can see where the old Cesspool was uhhuh okay right all right okay and and where this is it's this plot here that's what I was looking for okay so it's it's tucked in over
here um okay so what um what we're being asked to do here is to issue a well permit with a variance reducing the setback from the septic system from 100 feet to 70 feet
and that is one of those situations that would prompt us to request annual water testing am I not right am I right about that um um I'm whenever we go whenever we issue a
variance that reduces down from 100 between 50 and 100 we ask that they do water testing once a year we used to do that and we didn't really get much compliance so we haven't we're not we haven't really
kept it up okay um if if the board wishes to do that we can we can make that a condition of the permit um we can't make them comply um I wanted to read you I'm I
asked Ezra to make a formal request um so he said our proposed design revisions are as follows to buffer the water well from
contamination set a minimum of 50 feet of 6 inch steel casing and grout around the annular ring of the casing to 5 feet below grade this will ensure no potential entry point from upper strata
contamination of course of course that that presupposes that the contamination would be from the upper strata and kind of doesn't have anything
to do with the um with the um you know the subsurface sewage disposal so we could um we could make a
water test an annual water test for C horon nitrate and eoli a condition of the permit and we could state it for the first X number of years so that so that
it's not in perpetuity right I mean so presumably if there were contamination that were going to happen from this site without any other changes that it would show up in the first few years
right presumably I think so um that's a that's a good point um a sort of CounterPoint to that is we have never ever seen any contamination of a well from a septic
system so it's not something that I'm really worried about however there's you know it's fairly inexpensive to do these tests we could ask for one now and maybe one before the
installation although there might not be anybody in the house now I don't know if this is a a year Roundhouse or what but you know maybe three water tests no I uh we could certainly do that if
that's what the board wishes C the the only thing that seems to me is I don't know what they're using for a well now but it sounds like this new Option will be better if they're using a shallow well for example
now I assume that they are yeah right uh let me look at the picture so it's an upgrade that's what I would oh definitely it is definitely an upgrade and well how far away from the septic system is the current water
source that is a good question let me see what I can find out um this isn't being shared is it it's like yeah no no not right now um Let me let me see if I can share
it okay you got it now yep yep all right now where is the old well yeah it may be like a Well Point there's a well over here but that's not theirs
uhhuh I I don't think I think that this is this blue is the property line um oh existing well you see it it's just to the right of the rectangle that says proposed new well oh okay yeah you're right yeah that
says existing well right there uhuh okay so the existing well is well away see what I did there well away from the uh SES further away from the Cesspool right old you know sight of the old cesp
right yeah right yeah I don't know I mean I could find out Ezra would show me why he is putting it there but um right I and I can do that if you want however I can't
imagine that that would be that that would change anything um yeah right so the new well is here close to the house the right it's 70 feet from the
leeching field yeah I mean I feel comfortable with this I'm not you said the um the pump and fill of that septic system was done back in 2013 2013 yeah so
it's had 12 years to kind of you know yeah if there was anything any contamination might have still filtered out from there right I feel comfortable with this is there a regulation for
setback of Wells from the property line yes our well rag which I don't have in front of me right now does have a setback I think it might be either 15 or 20 feet so and this new well meets that better than the old one did quite a bit
yeah I'm sure it meets the setback yeah property I was just wondering about the old one yeah right yeah it was right on the road and uh that's not that's not a great thing right this is going to be a better well it's going to be drilled it's going to be there going to be casing it's going to be away from the
road it seems definit like a Improvement I agree so so I move that we up approve this application just as it is or with
stipulations um no I'm not feeling the stipulations with that old thing having been filled pumped and filled back in 2013 I think that's old news but you know I'm open to adding that if others feel
differently okay any discussion on this motion Garrett you look like you're ready to talk I would I was just going to second second the motion without stipulation okay no further discussion okay all in favor of Arlene's motion
Arlene obviously you would be a yes yes yes Garrett yes Norine yes and Cat yes so it's unanimous as soon as I get them to pay the fee uh we
will issue it okay let's stop this screen share thanks for showing that cat yeah my pleasure since I was actually for once for once I was actually
prepared um so the other thing on our agenda for tonight is as you know we received um a complaint claiming that the Jewish cemetery is violating the terms of the ruling that we made two years ago um
because of the holiday weekend the the complaint was not Rel re who received in time to be discussed at our last meeting so we are going to be talking about that tonight um I
circulated that letter to you but that is one thing that I in fact don't have um right in front of me however um there's an allegation here that the um
the uh jca is performing burials um within the 100 foot buffer and we have with us Karen rhods to um answer those allegations and we have Lisa and Chris who are the abutters who have complained so Karen
what can you tell us um so we have not uh the final plan for the cemetery does not include any PL uh plots anywhere in the 100 foot range of the well and nobody's been buried there and in fact all the burials have been clear on
the other side of the cemetery um there are a few people who have pre-installed headstones before they've passed away um so there and there are people who come and and and walk through the cemetery and visit in the cemetery
so it's an active Cemetery there's likely to be activity if you're watching um but the uh I don't know do you have the map that I sent you Katherine I do I do you can see it so it's not and it's I think it's important to clarify it's not
100 feet from the fence it's 100 feet from the well the well is back from the fence and we had a survey we paid a lot of money for a surveyor to come out and measure 100 feet and then for um planning people to come and and um who are graduates of the Conway school um to
come do the plotting um and they've done all that and we are well clear of the 100 feet okay so so um um what you can you see what's on my screen here yes so this is this is the
general plot plan of the cemetery which I don't think I had before or if if you sent it to me Karen I uh I don't know I may remember it's been a little while but anyway we have it now um and it shows the it shows the well in question
it shows the 100 foot radius around here and it shows that all of the the grave sites and potential grave sites are well outside that radius and now Karen there are these red ones are where people are
already buried but have been for a while like these are the ones that were already buried when they did the plot plan six months ago or whatever um and the other thing is that we've the the plots the planed plots that are just
outside of the driveway you like on the outside edges like here yeah those were all that was all tree area so we took down a whole bunch of trees like there's a lot of work going on there this fall um with Earth being turned over and trees being pulled out and whatever to
make those spots available but it's like it's just I know it's like 20 feet out Max from the from the driveway it's just like a strip on either side of the driveway there was a different picture that I sent you that had the like so basically everybody that's been buried recently is in the the big red section
that's the old Cemetery like those are only like within the last three months or five months the people that have been buried recently we only had I think four or five burials total last year so far one so far this year one so far this
year so um can you see the the screen that I changed to or do I have to no okay okay hang on and Karen before um we move the red
mark the red uh colored areas that are where people are already buried is that does that include both green burials and uh conventional burials oh that's only the green burial section because that's the only part that we were reformatting the conventional burials are in that big
red block and some of those are occupied and some are not okay thank you here I'm going to kind of start over on this screen share because it's um okay this is the piece you're talking
about right yeah okay so this is just a screenshot from our software so I couldn't like turn the blocks to be exactly but um the 500 section is in the U um that's the green burial section mhm all four burials last year were in the
conventional part of the cemetery just happened to that's who passed away and this is this is the this is the older section okay so there have not been any burials over in this area no not in at least six months if not
longer okay I'm gonna see if I can go back to the other one seems like stopping and starting works better okay and so these red ones again are are burials that existed at the time of the
surve okay um um Chris and Lisa what do you have to say what do you think hi there so yeah we really really just have a request and a question and the request is an upto-date um
geological evaluation as um like Mass D has on their website and says that that un actual geological evaluation should be done especially when there's a hybrid
Cemetery or Green Cemetery starting um the setback is 750 feet so um what we would want in lie of that would be the an actual updated
geological evaluation and then besides the request we have a question and the question was just about um what was poured into the ground in April 2022 and that was at the time when a lot of trees were being taken down and a
section of our fence was taken down and again I know we've all been here before but our original request was that um the fact that there's a drinking well right next to the cemetery is taken seriously
and the safety and health of the water is guaranteed and the only way that the cemetery in the jca could do that is by having an up-to-date updated geological evaluation and that shouldn't be that difficult did you say April of
2022 yes yes I did so I I have no idea I'd have to look because I was not okay around then yeah and that's yeah and sorry I'm not sure I don't know what would have been nothing would have been poured we don't pour anything into the ground so I don't oh yeah I have a video but um so I'd love for you to send it to
me that might be Illuminating in terms of the Geological Survey it's my understanding that this is a um closed matter that the Board of Health made a ruling about the parameters that we need to meet a Geological Survey was done
when the uh Cemetery was first started and there's no reason that that should no longer be um acceptable um yeah we've actually talked to some um hydrogeologist about this particular situation and 1979 is not current enough
so that's again that's our request I mean we'll continue with that whether or not we come to a meeting again but our the uh email we had sent was not saying that anything had been violated from the
board's ruling but obviously we disagree with the board's ruling and I know that everybody here um would disagree with it if it were there well that close so that's it a request and a question and again you just have to I
guess do the research I mean I would hope you guys are aware of what is being ped Bo into the um ground up there but it was April 2022 I could give you an exact date but I do have a video and is it
is I can try and identify who's even doing it but we don't pour anything into the ground there'd be no reason to so my suspicion is that you misunderstood what you were seeing oh yeah no it was pretty obvious but that it seems to me as a matter
between those two parties and doesn't have anything to do with the Board of Health um as far as the board of Health's um uh position on this we've made our ruling our ruling is final it would be inappropriate and wrong I
believe for us now to turn around two years later and make further restrictions and requirements on this we made the best decision that we could and I person personally I'm standing behind it now if anybody on the board has
another idea I would like to hear it now um I just want to ask why would that be wrong if if this is something that I don't think you can guarantee and all of the regulations out there are 750 ft minimum
usually 350 so for our safety and well-being and health of our drinking water and our well I'm not sure why you're deciding that that's up to you to say that it's good
enough for you when it's not you're drinking well Catherine it it's my understanding that from a legal standpoint the um you knew you were buying a house next to a cemetery and um investigating this would have been part of the due diligence
ahead of buying a house um the cemetery actually predates the house itself and um the they're not the the regulation is it's not a regulation of 750 ft it's a recommendation and this board did its work to This research and I'm just I'm surprised you're bringing up something
being important to the ground after all of the back and forth we've had in all the meetings that's the first I'm hearing about something in 2022 being poured into the ground so why it wouldn't have been brought up um okay so we can just would like I would like to respectfully suggest that another option
is if you feel this strongly you can drill a new well that's further away that's an option that you have and I my my question is why is the cemetery not willing to take into consideration people who have a well right there and we did know there was a
cemeter but green burial was not um part of the plan it was not brought up which should have been to the Board of Health which we were told by the Board of Health that should have been brought to the Board of Health Health when you started doing green
burials reason it wasn't is because green burial is in line with Jewish tradition and the only thing that's really really different is that we're not putting Concrete in the ground in the green burial sections um and they're no longer called Green burial for you know semantic sake whatever they're
ecologically sensitive because nothing is different about those burials other than the the the concrete that was done from a values standpoint of the community around environmental concerns um but there the the traditional Jewish
burial is green burial um so that That's why nothing was nothing was changing there's nothing to bring to the Board of Health there were always going to be green burials there before we started green burial it was just that there would have been concrete as
well okay thank you all um have a good night bye thank you um I I have to say Just Between the board and myself I guess that there's part of this that is starting to feel like it's borderline anti-semitic I have
to say um or harassment um you know that the you considered this over many meetings and this is I don't know if it's the first you're hearing about something being poured into the ground almost three years ago this is the first about it they had opportunity to bring
any scientific evidence they wanted to and it does feel like someone sitting by a window waiting to see if somebody walks through the cemetery and then make a complaint um and I don't know I'm not sure what to do about it and I don't know that it's necessarily your problem but they're making it your
problem right right I mean if they have if they have questions for you they should ask you I know that you are perfectly willing to answer them um um the fact is the Board of Health is required to protect the public health
from known contaminants not from hypothetical conjectural and possibly imaginary contaminants that's not our job and uh yeah and and my recollection
from the uh previous review of the recommended setbacks was it was very much based on density of the burial so fewer than 50 and I don't remember all of the parameters but I do
recall that those much larger setbacks were premised on a much greater density of burial than what we're seeing here in shutesbury fact we we've limited our density to be in compliance to the point
where we are running into a problem where we're going to run out of spots many years sooner than we thought we were going so you are you are working very hard to stay within a ve a very low density definition and um those big
setbacks are premised on a much much denser um burial plan and not not only density but the D guidelines don't take into account frequency and you know Karen you tonight
answered the question that I had was what have we seen in terms of number of burials uh since we last talked about this subject and we're not talking about Mass burials here and a lot of the guidance and guidelines are based
on um what we've seen in terms of mass burials and largely mass perial of animals and not not people um and we're not talking about Mass burial of uh infectious disease here you know it you
know this the the cemetery has done what I think is appropriate in in terms of responding to the board and responding to the concerns and I'm I'm satisfied with uh what you've brought to
us tonight thank you I do have a question um you Katherine you had told me over the phone or in the email email that part of the complaint was that we had buried somebody within 100t of their well um and you said that she sent a a letter just now they denied that they
made that claim and I'm just curious what the actual because you didn't send me the actual letter I don't know if that's something you can share with me um I foresee that this is going to go further whether legally or whatever and I'd love to have that and it would be great if in
the minutes that you're taking you could record that she denied in person that was the claim because I suspect that will become relevant okay um I can't I can't lay hands on the letter right this minute but I can send it to you I don't think there's no reason I can't share that
with you okay thank you has during the course of all of this has the complainant had their water tested not that I know what is the basis for it unless there is an actual
contamination there is and and the problem is nobody knows what that contaminant might be it's purely conjectural right they're worried about the potential whim I think
yeah and they specifically like one of the things they've specifically named is they're concerned about somebody who's perhaps undergoing radiation treatment that's had like the pellets um implanted in them then being buried um my understanding is that that does not travel very far in the ground and it's
such micro doses like that's the whole point of implanting the pellets is big doses radiation they're worried about if like somebody had I don't know like Ebola or something I'm pretty sure that um our our our Health Care system is such that if somebody dies from Ebola
they're not released to be buried in the general public like we know better than that so I think there are other Protections in place for some of what they are concerned about and um and chemotherapeutic agents I think are another potential source of concern someone and
additionally here you know DP tests the school well um one of the contentions is that the school well is within the area of the D guidelines uh but DP has said that
they're not prepared to regulate the cemetery uh related to that so um yeah and I don't think going to change I think the government doesn't want to get into regulating religion which is what regulating cemeteries
would be um that's part of why they our hands off um we may someday but yeah they did make it pretty clear that we were within our Authority here yeah I mean I think one of my questions to them is what do you want us to do dig them
up like dig people up and move them like what is it that they're proposing yeah right yeah right what it would what it would tail is doing a bunch of of deole observations in the in
the you know throughout the the plot yeah which I I don't feel that we would be justified in asking you to do take on that additional expense and um disruption right and it's not just plain
old water testing either in these observations um it's you know we'd be talking about Tes in for all these unusual components these unusual compounds um and that's separate from
depole observation I know but sorry and I would point out once again that if they're really worried about it they can move their well Nothing is Stopping them from having another Well drilled further away um like that is a solution that is available to them if we are within our
legal requirement and all the science says that it's safe if they're still worried about it they can put the well further away yeah right right I was going to suggest that they attend a a site visit that we could
make after um after the snow is off the ground but since they now say they didn't see burials within 100 feet um that seems pointless Arin just out of curi curiosity what are the flags that are on
the flags so when they did the plot plan we started like I wanted to make sure that it all actually fit because the theory especially because GPS up there like only sort of works so that was us going through and
actually marking out with the tape measure every single spot we did actually discover that the plot plan they put together wasn't exactly right and we had to shift some things around um and then we ran into the into the winter so our goal is we have these um
metal stakes that can be detected by metal detector and they will be replaced and those won't be visible um but those will go in where all the flags are we just didn't get because it's all volunteer run I only have me and two staff people in the office so
yep and I don't even know how many of them survived the winner we'll see they're still there they're still there okay I haven't been up in a few weeks that was RS to make sure we don't accidentally dig somebody up next time we go to bury somebody oh yeah that would not be
good okay um you know I don't know what to tell you I hope that they will subside um but um you know we can't that and if we do get I'm sorry so I think it's clear you all are done considering this issue
unless they actually have like a test that shows that something's happening um and the rest you know we may have to get a lawyer to write a letter or something I hope it won't come to that but um I hope not to but yeah k um
Town Council is not involved in this at this point is she not at all no are you what thoughts do you have about that no I None really I was just wondering whether or not um she is
aware that we have um a party in town who's I the vibe I'm getting is that they may press this further through some legal channels and it it might be time to at least make
Donna aware that this is going on I I do know they have contacted a lawyer at one point because they tried to contact Michael Phill who's a member of the jca and was Consulting for us and he told me and he told them that he was a conflict of interest and he couldn't talk to them sure I do know that they've reached out
to try to find yeah right okay yeah I I will certainly mention it to Donna um but um you know when there's no harm when no harm has been done demonstrably no harm has
been done they I don't imagine that any lawyer would be willing to take a case like that so what what Michael pill shared with me is that there there's a very clear legal Doctrine it's called the airport Doctrine which is that you can't buy a house next to an airport and then complain about the noise I call
that the pig farm Doctrine next to so they bought a house next to a cemetery right they can't now complain that there's a cemetery next to the house no matter what and and and their argument that we started doing green burial again we didn't start doing green burial we just got rid of the concrete
in the burial we were already doing like if anything there's less contaminants in the ground now you know unless they perceive the concrete as being a barrier that protects it except it's specifically not because it's a Jewish concrete thing so there's holes on the
bottom and the sides for yeah right for me the remedy that they seek it no longer stands with the Board of Health I think that's right right well except they're asking
us to basically reconsider the ruling that we issued two holy years ago which I'm not willing to do there's nothing new here yeah the other thing is my understanding is that the hydrological study and I might be
wrong but the purpose of it is to make sure that the ground's not too wet so it's not going to flood and the bodies come to the surface but that's really all that it's supposed to do so requesting a hydrological it's not going to tell them which direction the water is Flowing it's not not going to tell them how far things are flowing it's
just to make sure that if you're making an area Cemetery it's not like in the wetlands basically um and that and and so it's not actually again maybe I'm wrong but but the thing they're asking for isn't actually about the thing they're worried
about you may be right about that but my assumption based on reading the hydrological survey that was done originally originally originally go because it only talks about how high to expect the water and whether it's going to flood and that's alls on right
right right they they took numerous deep holes and they never found water in any of them and they went deep no and there's no reason to think it would change I don't think so I mean obviously this you know the school wasn't there at
the time and and so on so there's there's been disturbance but I would only expect that to change the water table if the water table were already high and if anything there's less water falling every year for the most part
there's that there's that yeah I meant to ask Al wner about his um his his um monitoring Wells that he's he's tracking that but I I forgot to do it in time okay so let me know if you feel like we need a site visit just to tie
things off with a bow you've all seen it you can can measure the 100 feet and confirm that what's on the map is real I don't know me you know I have confidence in your your uh surveyors right I I myself tried to
measure from there when they first when they first came to us or when we first started paying attention to them um I went I went over there with a a measuring tape and it was extremely difficult to measure because there was you know a fence in the way and trees in the way you and it was really hard to
get a straight line um I am sure that they did it with a Transit and that they have um reliable a reliable plot plan plus it seems clear to me from the plot plan that you showed us that there's quite a bit quite a good buffer yeah
beyond that 100 foot radius yeah we did that on purpose knowing their complaints and concerns well that was that was good of you yeah agree all right well thank you for coming in Karen thank you thank you thank you
thank you oh so there it is yeah I was a little surprised that they up and left so abruptly you know I'm I'm sorry that they are afraid but I think it's
unjustifiable and um I think they're safe obviously I think that I we wouldn't have made a decision that we thought was not safe for them right I agree
ah but there it is yeah are there other things that we need to be uh to be talking about tonight I don't have anything I um I might take a a few you know a
program that they're doing historic de field that's meeting on Wednesday nights for for three weeks I think it starts next week so there might be a conflict with our next meeting um and I'm not quite sure how to
how to deal with that we might skip the meeting we might reschedule the meeting for another time but why don't we wait until we get close to the meeting and we'll see if we need a meeting and if we do then we can figure out what to do
with about it okay okay do we have the latitude to make it a different night of the week we do both from the town's point of view but also each member's point of view oh well from the town's point of view we now have our own Zoom
account we don't have to share it with anybody so we can have meetings Around the Clock 247 if we want to and I I definitely do um as far as as far as find and night when we can all do it
that would probably take some negotiation but I imagine we could we come up with something and it doesn't have to be at night either you know okay if if we can find a daytime slot that works for everybody that could happen
too okay I'm flexible right most of us are pretty flexible Garrett probably is the one that has the least Flex in his schedule daytime isn't as great for me but um I can make it work okay well we have we
have the latitude to move to any other evening which is uh which is pretty good okay okay are we done I will move to a journ oh you were gonna say
something uh I I don't know maybe so but not anymore okay so let us let us adjourn thank you thank you I'll stop the recording