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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=08LibNnBoU0

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There we go. Well, welcome everyone to the May 20th meeting of the MLP board and broadband committee. I'm Gail Hunress, MLP manager, facilitating the meeting. This meeting is fully remote. Participating also remotely, we have MLP board members

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Jim Hemingway, Graham Septton, Steve Smith Schmidt, and uh community member Craig Martin. Um, and Craig, did I hear that you're calling in from the beach somewhere? >> Well, I'm in Los Angeles. I'm not at the

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beach right now. I'm at my in-laws house. So >> Oh, nice. Um, all right. So, as usual, our first order of business is to approve the previous meeting minutes as uh amended by Jim

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from April 15th. Can I have a motion? >> So, moved. Thank you. Second. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And um all in favor of approval, Steve >> I. >> And Jim >> I.

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>> And Graham >> I. >> Excellent. Thank you. Um hut report. >> Uh yep. Everything uh seemed uh in order there today. I checked and uh the um the

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update on um uh so I can't hear I should change the mode. Uh can everyone hear me? Okay. I didn't hear you. >> Oh, good. Okay. I won't yell then. Um uh so yeah, the um the HVAC the um the the

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north one is um even though it was suspect of a leak, it's doing just fine. >> Yeah. So, the north one is um has got the lead and just in case because we know it's got a slow leak or that's what we were told um uh that um the south one

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is in the backup mode which is set to cool at 75° inside the hut and um and that has not it it hasn't had to do that at this point. So, the north unit is um is holding fine. Uh if it's leaking,

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it's leaking so slowly it it's not mattering yet. So no. >> Right. And the south unit has not turned itself off. >> It has not turned itself off. No. When it's when it's just in when it's just in cooling mode, it doesn't turn itself off. So that's good news, too. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. That's great. All right. Um, yeah, there's more. I don't know about other people's houses, but we've had double the number of ladybugs in our house this season. >> Yep. There. Okay. So, I suspect um um

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obviously the reason you were evacuated to to California probably because >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. But we we've had probably double. And in the hut, I notice also there's like dead bodies um three times as many

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as normal. You know, I sweep the floor and I count the do the autopsy report and um and you know, there's probably probably 40 dead ladybugs on the floor in the hut this this month and that's more than usual. Hoping next season will

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be back to normal, which would be 20 dead. >> Yeah. They don't they don't survive there. So they don't fly around. Um uh obviously there's a few little caps on the outside and uh ladybugs are good at caps. So nothing else to report about

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the hut. Um everything else seemed good. >> Great. All right. Um let's see. Our uh our service tickets is a pretty Oh, before I talk about that, I wanted to talk about uh Graham. Thank

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you for um the the HUT responsibility list. Um I have um uh cleaned it up and sent it off to um our new newly elected board member for Andy Rean and asked if he if he uh would have interest in

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taking on that role. So I'm waiting to hear um back from him about that. Um and let's see the um maintenance report is that we had a

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pretty normal month with 29 tickets. Um five of those tickets were um generated by just one call. Um one of our customers had an outage reported. Um and then there's just a lot of back and forth because it was one of these instances where a call needed to go out.

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But when the internet is out and the person doesn't have any cell service, it turns into a game of telephone of they have to drive out into the world and get service and like, well, we can't get a hold of the technician. Like, you need to call back later. So, every time

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there's one of those communications, it it it generates a ticket. Um, and we've had conversations about this before and it's just the nature of the lack of cell service up here and what happens um when

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our customers can't can't communicate out. Um, we could set up a you know like a texting service but it would cost a lot more because ngrity doesn't do that. like we could find somebody to do

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textbased communications. Um but anyway, >> but if the fiber is if the fiber is down, they can't do anything. >> Oh um correct. Although a lot of people have like just one bar of cell service, they can't make a call, but they can they can squeeze Yeah, they can squeeze

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a text out. >> Yeah. Sorry, I wasn't clear. >> I cannot. So yeah. >> Okay. We had looked into this before, I think, and and found that it was not avail the texting essenti wasn't available or wasn't feasible. >> Yeah. Not Yes. Yes. If you if you spend

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enough money, you can do anything. >> But uh for for that level of uh customer interface, we just it Yeah. It's not It's not going to work. >> Gale >> Yes. Jim, go first. >> How many service tickets did you say there were? I missed that. Yeah. 29.

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>> 29. Sure. >> 29. But I I was just saying that five of those were were just the same customer trying to get something solved when there was so much back and forth. Yep. Graham, you wanted to say something? >> Yeah. Was the customers ser was their

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fiber out? Had they lost their what what happened? Do you know? >> I do. I do. I looked into the tickets and um it was an outage that resolved itself. Um, so it didn't in the end of it, it didn't even require that a technician to

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go out. Um, I had a I I didn't even remember this because I can't remember anything these days, but um I had a back and forth with this customer back in when she reported it and um I authorized the beyond the router service support um

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because it went out just mysteriously for like a day and a half. They didn't, you know, the power was on. They didn't know what happened. So, um, a technician went out and just made sure everything was set up correctly. Nothing was a miss there. >> Uh, and they found nothing nothing a miss. Eh,

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>> they didn't. Um, yeah. Um, it it just it made the customer feel better though to know that everything was was checked out and um, you know, we'll we'll just keep an eye on it if it if it happens again. Um, do more um, diagnostics. But yeah.

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Um, all right. Financials. Um, we're still looking good. Um, our balance right now is just under 150,000. Um, that does not include the debt

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service um, which will be uh, coming out um, any day now. Um, I took a little bit of time to look into where we stand with the FCC communications rules because um, I've

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just been sitting on the um, you know, our our new router project. Um, kind of waiting to see what happens. As it stands today, um, Net Netgear, Adtran,

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um, Eero from Amazon, um, are the only manufacturers. Oh, and Kaix actually has it has a model, too, um, that have been conditionally approved for sale in the US. So, that leaves out the TPLink and ASUS models

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that we were also considering. Um, I didn't really The Adran ones weren't really on my radar. Does anybody know anything about them? I just did a very rudimentary look up of them today and it looks like they are um uh they're not

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really residential routers in the in the traditional sense that anyone can go out and buy them, but they are um ISP provided equipment. Um does anyone know know anything about them? I just

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nothing. Okay. All right. Well, I'm going to look into those a little bit more. Um and see if that might be an option. Um I'm thinking that just going to sit on this one more month. Um and see if we can get or not

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we can get but see if TPLink and ASUS comes through as as being cleared manufacturers. I I mean they've got to, right? or else they're just going to lose all their business. Um, but I am just worried about going forward with

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any model that isn't cleared. Um, buying all of them and then them, you know, installing something that's not cleared in our in our customers houses. So, um, we do have until the end of the year, I think I emailed that around to all of you for this grant that they're they

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they they just extended it to the to December 31st. Um, so that is that's helpful. Um, but if we want to do this before the end of the year, we should move on it regardless. So, um, let's

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let's see where we are in a month. Um, let's see. Um, if you'll bear with me one moment, um, one thing we need to talk about is, uh, the reels, uh, the spare reels. Um, we had talked about

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this last time about instituting a policy to get rid of them as surplus materials. And so, um, we voted on it on the the the policy for that. And just as a reminder, um when we have equipment or

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materials that we no longer need and the value is less than 10 grand, um we can donate those items instead of selling them. And who we can donate to is another MLP or any nonprofit or charitable organization.

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And so the first thing we have to do is estimate the value of the items uh and then discuss the proposed donation at a public board meeting. We've already done that part. we've already discussed this um and then take a vote. A majority of the board um with a quorum present has

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to approve of like okay yes we are going to donate this less than $10,000 uh group of surplus materials. Um and if the if you don't approve the donation um then we just sell or dispose of the

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items following state law such as through bids, auction or resale markets. Um, so, um, what I did, the the hardest part of this was like trying to figure out how do we figure out the value of these reels that have been sitting behind the

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shed rotting on their little well, the the fibers are rotting, but their their wheels are rotting of all these various lengths of different fiber, different different strand values. Um, and so, um,

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I asked Lee to give me the current price of a 216 fiber, um, uh, uh, foot per foot price because this is the this is the biggest fiber, right? The the one with the most strands in it.

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Give me the give me the price for the for the most of it. And he said that, well, Corning doesn't make these anymore, the ones that we have. So he said, "But Greybar does, and they're charging $416 a foot for two 216 strand fiber, and

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that's that's for brand new." So the way here, let me share my screen so you can see my calculation and see if this makes sense. So yeah, make this bigger. Too big. So um

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I estimated that okay so let's just say that after seven years of sitting there random lengths that it's it's it's the value of these is reduced by half. It seems reasonable to me that there's no way that you could sell this for more

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than 50% of its value. So adding up all of the feet just under 4,000 ft. Here's the strand counts, and you'll see that this is the only one that actually reaches that 216. But again, I'm taking the the most price

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that it could be. Um, and if you do that just under 4,000 ft times $2 a foot, we come out with $7,912. So there is Yeah, go ahead. I was just so So, so it looks to me like even brand

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new, this um stash of uh cable we've got is barely worth over $10,000. >> Yeah, it would be Well, it would be worth about 16,000. >> Yeah. If if if that I mean >> but since you priced the price you got

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was for the largest strand number I would assume you know a a uh a smaller you know a you know a >> yeah a 30 strand cable is not going to cost as much per foot as a 216

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>> new so therefore it would be less than the 16,000 uh new. So it might not be much over 10,000 >> even even brand new. >> Even brand new. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. >> But do you do you think this is a a reasonable um uh um estimate that there's no way our fiber is worth over 10 grand? >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally totally reasonable. Yeah.

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>> Okay. All right. So, um the one thing I am holding back, you'll see my little note here, is that um our largest strand is the less amount of fiber. So, it's we have a a 6,000 ft of um 12 strand fiber.

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And what I'm going to do is I'm going to hold this one back in case that Macedonia Road installation goes forward. we can apply this surplus material to that um to keep the cost down or to you know any any kind of drop

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situations. Um that where this this could be reused for that. Um so um other than that um I would love >> that that that real is not on your spreadsheet here.

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>> It correct. It's not it's not in these calculations. It's It's down here. Yeah. Okay. >> Good idea. Yeah. >> Yep. >> How big was that spool again? >> Yeah. Just over 6,000 ft >> of 12 of 12 strand fiber.

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>> Okay. Right. >> You could probably just attach the u the spreadsheet to the minutes there. Um Jim. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jim, why don't let me let me send this to you so we just have an official record if anyone ever questions us about how did you calculate the values? Um,

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>> sounds great. >> I'll I'll send send the spreadsheet to you. >> Okay. >> To Jim. >> And and you may have said this, but the footage you did, that's actual footage or the nominal footage for a full reel or >> Oh, this is the actual footage of what

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we have. >> Okay, great. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> these were all leftovers. They were all just leftovers from the >> And they they kept track of what they used so they know what's left. Got it. >> Yep. And and Graham so wonderfully uh >> they have they have footage marks.

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>> Yeah, >> they have footage marks on the cable so you can see what's Yeah, you have to do the math. Yeah. Yeah, >> that's fine. Cool. Yeah. >> Um Lee did say that he may need the highway department's help to get them

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out of there. Um >> because you know, otherwise they're going to have to bring stuff. So I'll I'll work that out with um with Dave in the in the highway department. Um and um yeah, I'm sure they'll they'll I well, I'm not sure, but I'm thinking that they'll be happy to help to get that

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room back. >> There you go. >> Yeah. to get that storage space back. Um so if all this looks good then um we've done step one and two where we've estimated the value of the items, we've discussed the proposed donation in

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public and now the third one is to take a vote um to donate the surplus fiber to um South Hadley Electric. So if one of you can make a motion to do that and we'll vote on it and make it official. So moved.

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>> Thank you. Can I have a second? >> Second. >> Second. >> Great. Um, all in favor of donating this surplus fiber to South Hadley Electric, uh, Jim >> I, >> Graham, >> I.

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>> And Steve, >> I. >> Excellent. And you don't need to put it in the motion, but if they don't want it all, then it it um they can take whatever they want it without, you know, >> let me just move

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>> without without uh Yeah. If they don't want it all, then that's still we're ahead. >> Yeah. Well, honestly, what I'm I'm going to do, Graham, is I'm going to say, can you please please take it all? Um so that we don't have to worry about the the you know, the disposure kind of like

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as a trade-off. you take it all. You get rid of anything you don't want. Um, but we really, you know, don't want to store this anymore. >> They might look at it and say it's all junk. So, I don't know. >> Yeah. Well, I guess that's an answer, too. If if they really do say it's junk,

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then junk. Then step two is that we have we'll have to get rid of it, right? And again, I guess >> I guess I'll work with the highway department on that. You know, I'm sure they they know how to get rid of industrial >> garbage like this. But I'm I'm really hoping that Sheld will just take it

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away. They'll dispose of anything that is not usable and we can move on. >> But Lee came out and looked at it, didn't he? >> He did. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah, >> you may not be able to see much because it it grew in as a jungle once before

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and I haven't cleared that jungle in a couple of years, but yeah, he might have he could have seen a few of them maybe. All right, I'm just looking at my notes here. Um, oh, um, uh, matter of procedure that we

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need to do if you want to do it is reappoint me as the MLP manager. We need to do this every fiscal year. Um, and it has to land in the minutes. I I we usually do it in April and I just realized that we we didn't do it. So, um

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if you moved >> Thank you. >> I would move that guy be reappointed. >> All right. Thank you. And all in favor, Jim >> I. >> And Graham >> I. >> And Steve >> I.

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>> Excellent. Thank you. >> All right. Right. So, we've taken care of that and we've talked about routers. Um, I did send a welcome email to Andy Regan, the new board member, um, uh, earlier this week and I mentioned that I

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had asked him if he wanted to, um, you know, take on the the HUT responsibilities. Um, I also sent him a copy of our broadband manual that we have. Um, and I was so happy to have that. I mean, I know that we've been

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keeping that as a as a matter of continuity to uh keep track of all our like institutional knowledge in one place and operations and this is how it works, but how nice to be able to just like hand that over to to somebody new and say here here it all is. um as a as

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like a just an onboarding document um as well as a a document for any of you should something happen to me that um you know we we just have something that is an overview of the entire organization. Um so anyway it's it's uh

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it's it's doing its first run through of its usefulness. I also asked Andy of like, Andy, just pretend as you read through this, let's say that you had to take take over for the MLP knowing absolutely nothing about it. Um, can you

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tell me what's missing from this? Um, as a because he's going to be the only fresh pair of eyes that has ever seen it. Um, you know, outside of our committee. Um, so I'm hoping to get some good information from him um about how else we need to improve that that

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document to be like a really true living um representation of of all our policies and procedures and and us as a whole of of how we operate. >> That's good. And um just just to mention while on the subject of Andy uh for

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anyone who wasn't at the town meeting or hasn't gone to look at the uh the the the record gal said lovely words of uh of send off for me um of appreciation. So that was nice to uh uh and I thanked

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you before Gal, but thanks again. That was nice. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. I I don't think that we get to um you know just publicly express gratitude enough for for for everybody and and all of you have been doing this

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for so long and um yeah just really really appreciate it and um and yeah so so Graham we have one or two more meetings with you >> probably through June right

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>> yeah June beginning June 30th June 30th so My turn. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I'm gonna um Yeah, I'll make sure that Andy makes it to the to the next um the next meeting with you so that we have, you know, one meeting of overlap and um then release you into retirement

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from the board. And um uh yeah, also I asked Andy if this this 5:00 pm meeting works for him. Um he does have young kids. So um uh

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I said we'd be open to moving moving the time um if he if he needs that. Um and you know I have some flexibility during during the day times and and evenings. So we'll figure that out. But for for now we'll just continue our third third Wednesdays.

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>> Gail. >> Yes. Is is Andy's last name spelled with EA or >> Yes, it's E A G an >> like president. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Right. It's spelled Reagan but said

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Rean. At least I I'm pretty sure. >> Okay. I I I I've seen it both ways. I wasn't quite sure what which one was proper. All right. So, the last this meeting is going very quickly. The last thing that

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um I have is to discuss our um non traditional installation policy uh that I sent around over email earlier. So, I'll pull that up um on um on the screen, but does anybody else have any other items that we need to talk about

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besides that tonight? >> I could offer a little uh tele area telecommunications update. It's, you know, it's just a little aside, but >> Okay. the uh cell tower on um off of

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Buffam Road in Palum that this is the one that AT&T built over 10 years ago, never uh equipped and it sat there unused for a long time and finally uh a couple years ago T-Mobile put an antenna on it. Gale, that was when I it's fairly

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near me and that's when I had you swing by and shoot your cell service using T-Mobile to see what sort of signal strength there was for T-Mobile. Um recently driving up um uh um North Valley Road and Buffham Road, I saw

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Verizon trucks out. First I thought they were just like changing cable over to Eversource's new poles and no that's not that what they're doing here. They're stringing new fiber optic cable. Hm. Wonder what that's about. >> And then I got when it turned up onto Buffam Road and they're heading fiber up

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that way. I thought, hm, this is really curious. And I thought, aha, I wonder. And when I got up to a in where I had sight to the uh cell tower, sure enough, there's a second tier of antennas on that tower. So, I would say I I haven't I've been meaning to hike out to the

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tower and look at it, but my guess is Verizon is going on to that tower. >> I think that's a pretty solid bet. Wow. >> Yes. >> Just so you know though, just so you know, um Verizon um strung all the fiber

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to the one the um the Lakeola um uh cell tower and they're still not on the thing. So the the the the Verizon definitely does the fiber to the pole to the tower on this side of town. Um, so

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they may not and and um and I think I mentioned last month there's a second tier of uh of um of antenna on the on the Lake Wyola um tower now too. So so there definitely there are so there are

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carriers who are expanding into our area. >> Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think the strategy would could be that they're they string the fiber up and then just kind of like wait until there's fiber to two towers to light

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them both up or I mean it's all complete speculation but >> I think fiber on the roads it's easier for the so the the the people who own the cell tower are a cell tower company and their easiest way to get fiber to

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their to anything in town um uh is to ask Verizon to run it from some point where Verizon has fiber. So, um I I think we we sort of slightly talked about the possibility that the uh

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Shootsbury could provide fiber to the cell tower, but that would be so irregular for the cell tower company that they wouldn't want to go there, I don't think. >> Right. It never would have occur I assume it never would have occurred to them. They have no idea who shoots berry

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net is. So >> true of that. Yeah. >> This came up many this came up years ago with respect to wired west and >> the big providers don't want to be on somebody else's fiber. They want to be on their fiber.

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>> That's a just a gen a general rule. >> Yeah. Who is Graham? Do we know who T-Mobile is served by for the Lake Wyola tower in like who? >> Yeah, I I sus I suspect AT&T. Um I mean

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uh T Oh, so sorry. Um T-Mobile has their own um meter there. Yeah. And their own antenna now. So u So I take that back. Um initially um uh initially they might have had some arrangement with someone else but but um but yeah who was their

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server on on the Lake Wala Tower? It's them. Um but they get their no fiber >> they they use their well um they they probably lease um some fiber from Verizon because Verizon is the only ones

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who ran fiber to that uh to that location. I see. I'm safe. All right. Um well, let's talk about this non-conventional installation um policy um as some background. So,

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there is a customer on Macedonia Road that is landlocked by public MDC land and um they expressed interest in wanting to get a broadband installation

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and it's nearly a half mile um off the when we call it a main road, I mean a dirt road, but one that we do have fiber on. Um and the question is um can you know can we

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serve them? Um this would be one of the installations that could fall under our grant policy um for for an install. Um but because it's non-conventional and the property does not have um uh

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electric service um beyond solar panels, it's not the type of thing we normally do. Um they do have cell or sorry sorry um landline service by Verizon, but that currently is just laying on the forest

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floor going going through the woods. So, some of the questions that we need to answer as a group are, do we want to serve do we want to even consider serving um non-conventional places like this? And if we do, how do we do it in

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such a way um that is aligned with our mission of providing service to everyone we can and protecting the interests of um the MLP and making it fair to all other subscribers who have a more

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traditional installation where um the maintenance costs are going to be a lot lower if something goes wrong. So serving everybody and limiting our liability and also do we even want to do this? Uh one of the things that um we

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all could decide is that it's just it's too big of a risk and and we just can't um you know can't take that on. Um so those are all questions that are up up for debate here. um if we do serve them,

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I do feel strongly that we need to have a special policy for this kind of installation to again limit our liability. um if it's not installed in like kind of well up to spec because this won't be it

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is cost prohibitive to do it in the way that is the right and correct way of um you know doing utility poles and stringing conduit. It's 20 to $30,000. Um so it's just it it you know it's just

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simply out of reach. Um the way that this particular installation would happen would be to follow the line of the current telkcom laying a fiber on the ground um through through the woods and then at the end

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tacking up to some trees. Um, I am still waiting uh for Sheld to get me an actual estimate of this of Okay, let's say we do this and we run it from that last utility pole over the river and through

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the woods um and um then up on a few trees right at the end to get this house service. If we do that, how much is that going to cost to be installed? if we also use that surplus reel of fiber um

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that that we have um to to do it. So that is what we're debating. Yes. >> Yeah. I I would I would say um the the the um the thought of I used to because I knew the the director for Teos um for

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many years I repaired their phone cable which lay across the ground for thousands and thousands of feet um and um and found places where animals had trod on the cable. Um sometimes um you know vos or whatever had put their teeth

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through the cable. Um, and this was just phone cable, which is very easy to repair. Um, you know, you you you copper. Um, the thought of having fiber laying on the ground is is uh is

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nightmarish to me. Uh the very way that institutional um uh utility type organizations protect themselves from uh from uh just the the perils of having to maintain u

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bad infrastructure or poorly installed infrastructure is by having you know what they call standards. And um and that is what you were alluding to um that the standards have to be uh you know that it is done properly because

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otherwise you can guarantee that um uh you know you can hardly protect yourself from someone complaining that it's always broken you know because that's that's the risk that you'll sort of that that the that a utility then would run.

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Um I would say that um going through woods that um that requiring them to be buried in um you know in u some 24 in below the ground PVC better better than what came up our driveways u which was

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probably only 12 and 18 in below the driveways um because of that machine uh limitations. But, you know, that's a that's a much smaller exposure um in a short driveway if you're in the woods

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than um you know, it's uh it's it's probably dig a trench, drop conduit in. It's expensive. >> No, that's not going to >> uh you Craig, are you disagreeing or >> Yeah. No, I'm saying that I don't think

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anyone's going to want to pay for that. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, but but but we don't want to I don't think we can protect ourselves from the repair thing. I mean, I suppose the deductible is not a bad uh when you got to that in the in

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the proposed thing, G, where you wrote a deductible of a,000 bucks a year. Uh that's probably not a bad thing again for everybody, you know, having some deductible. uh just uh you know I don't know just uh it's a uh for for some

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catastrophic failure I I can't imagine but it's it's uh a deductible might be the way though I don't know I I hate to put stuff on the ground because it'll fail and it'll >> it'll be a pain in the butt. Is the is the nearest served home is that on like

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old Boston road or something like like um Bezy and and what's his Eric or >> it's further down the road than that. >> Yeah, >> but the cable runs by their house on the road. I mean by their property on the

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road. So that's it's not an issue of getting it our network to them, but it's just that the the house is so far back from the road and with no utility poles uh service poles uh running.

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>> What if we said what if we said we'll deliver service to the road and we'll have a box of some kind and then after that you can run what you want. We don't guarantee anything past that. Yeah. So that that's what I'm I'm

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attempting to do with this policy is to change the demarcation point for the non a non-conventional install like this of we'll do it and you have to take the the responsibility of it beyond that you

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know that that point. Um I think the challenge is that if you know all we would do in a we'll say a more normal situation is like we put an on the pole >> and say it's like everybody else. The is

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a demarcation. This long half mile is yours. The problem with that is we can't we have no way to power that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then the run from the to the home, my understanding is that that would have to be done with like a um a an Ethernet

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cable which makes it susceptible to >> um a lightning strikes >> and >> Yeah. Go ahead, Jim. >> Ethernet cable is a limit of 330 ft. So you can't

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>> Oh, so not bad. Okay, >> not that the second thing is you cannot put this stuff on the ground. The porcupines will will will chew it will will chew it up. It's got to be buried. So whatever the solution is, burial is I'm afraid the only way it's going to be

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at least minimally required. I I know this residence well as you all know and I know the problems that they've had just with with phone cable over the years of being chewed and trees falling on it and one thing or another. And I think the only solution is to bury it.

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And I thought that that there was somebody who had a machine that could could actually dig a trench very efficiently and rather inexpensively. And when I mentioned this a while ago and I don't know whether anyone's followed up on that or not but

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there is there is someone who could could I mean I I don't remember all the details of what of what I might have said back then but there was someone if Shell just goes out and hires someone to do it it's going to be very expensive

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but there was an alternative to this and the alternative looked very promising that's all I'm saying. >> Okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be surprised. I mean, you're going to be cutting through tree roots and I mean, it's not trivial. >> Stones.

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>> And stones. Exactly. Yep. >> Yeah. I mean, if we could if we could get this to a uh traditional installation of putting a conduit, you know, on in in ground, then we could do this without a non-conventional

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installation policy, right? just like, "No, you you've you've been installed." You know, we love underground drops. They're they're wonderful, even a long one like this. Um >> Y' be good. >> Yeah. So, Steve. >> Yeah. Um I mean, we've talked about this

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uh premises for years and, you know, it's always been this outlier and when we say, you know, we provide premise service to 100% of the town is offered to 100% of the residents. So, there should be a little asterisk. Well, n

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minus one here. Um, but I had thought with the grant that was there was something here that was providing funds finally to um overcome the high cost, you know, to pay part of

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the the high cost of uh installation to this property. And so that's why this has all come up again. It's being discussed now and then the the policy and so forth. So, is that not anything? Is that is the grant not covering

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any or or enough of this to be feasible? >> The grant can absolutely cover it, but it's a limit of five grand. >> Okay. So, >> so, so for per per installation. So,

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>> okay. So, um, that's that's the the the sticking point of and and you know that >> there's there's no >> Yeah, if Shell does this, um, it's going to be between 20 and 30,000. >> Okay. So

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>> I think I I think kind of what I'm hearing here is that >> this really needs to be done to spec because otherwise it leads to too many repair issues and opens us up to um all sorts of uh liability issues if it's not

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done correctly. And we can't And we can't do a demarcation point at the pole because it's just too long and we have no way to power the electronics that would live on that pole without all sorts of other things of like tapping,

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you know, putting in getting electricity out there. So the only other way is to is to dig this. Yeah. Go ahead, Steve. >> Yeah. Um Okay. So, so underground conduit is just cost prohibitive.

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I do know what it it costs to put in is is pole are poles feasible and or stringing to trees. I mean >> string to trees is bad. Don't string to

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trees. >> I mean I mean a telephone pole used to be a tree. Yeah. So, so yeah, it's not the tree so much. It's the fact that it's going through deep woods with all sorts of branches falling um on, you know, on on

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it. That's that's really the problem. It's not It's not that putting it on a tree, per se. It's really the location of putting it through deep woods. >> Um my understanding is that they used to have service of their Verizon telephone line up on the trees. they took it down

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because it got broke so many times from from other falling branches and and and and like it did it did not work. So, we've already we already test case of like can you just use the trees as poles? Um and you can't because just you

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can't run it through the deep woods. There's too much just stuff happening all the time. If if a support cable, you know, would consider running a support cable and attach lashing it to that. >> It it must not work. It must not work on

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trees because no one does it anywhere on trees that I've ever heard of. >> So, if you think about being out in the woods, trees sway back and forth in the wind. >> Oh, yes. Telephone poles. Telephone po folks do not >> because they don't have the the branches

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with leaves still attached. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Such a good idea. Taking the leaves off. >> So if we if we cut the trees, you know, >> if we if we lift them all the >> and top them and leave a 20 foot uh stub

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there. >> Okay. getting >> getting back getting getting back to the idea of just delivering service to the road. We can do that and say it's up to you to figure everything else out, including one option might be they put a

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solar panel with a battery backup at the to power that >> um but but that would be on them not on us. >> And everything after that point everything after that point if there's any troubles we are not responsible.

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>> Right. Tell me tell me about um what that looks like. Um bringing service from the pole to the house a half mile through the woods of you know the Ethernet cable doesn't work. So would they >> what what else?

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>> They would do they would do fiber. They would do fiber. So they would you would just have some kind of repeater >> and the fiber goes out there. But but we would have a a testable thing at that box that says well except that we wouldn't be powering it. They would

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anyway that that we could say, "Yep, you've got service to here. You're on your own after that." >> Could that be done with a with a NID at the um at the poll? I mean, you'd have to go there to test for service.

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You couldn't do it remote. I don't think you could do it remotely, but um you would know that there is service to to the pole if you had a nood there. >> Yeah. >> I don't You you would know in a very tedious manner. Uh Steve, you would know

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by >> Yeah. Because the only way you can without an active device, without a powered device, then you just have to depend on bouncing um a signal along the length and and dividing by two, you know, and that's how they that's how

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they troubleshoot broken fiber on roads. But it's uh a pain in the butt for them. I mean they it's not like they can't just look at their at their uh yeah their their screen and say whether it's working or not. They have to put on a special piece of equipment to shoot

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>> um to OTDR an optical u reflection meter. >> But if if if somebody actually went to the pole, could they plug into the NID and determine that there was service? >> Oh, they could totally do that. But that's quite a, >> you know, there there's there's a call

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out for that, isn't there? >> Well, that's what I was going to have you do in your retirement, Graham. >> Yeah. No, no, it's it uh the other the other problem with anything like this is uh at the institutional or the utility level is just that something that is

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different to everywhere else ends up being, you know, a real pain in the butt as well because You've got to remember this special thing. >> Y >> All right. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. So I think I'm I'm what I'm

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hearing is that the two options are that we do an at the pole so that it can match up with the rest of our installations of that demarcation point and then everything beyond that is is is on the customer to install

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>> or and maintain. >> Yeah. And and maintained. >> Yeah. or we will treat this like any other traditional installation. Um if the homeowner can get the trenching done and do a proper conduit that we can run

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through. Um >> yeah. >> And um so >> well and and the trenching has to be done to spec. If it's a foot down, do we or if it's six inches down, do we say we go for it or not?

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Not not to spec. No, definitely not. >> So, they would have to do a trench and the trench would have to be the uh industry standard. Um, I don't know. You can spell it out for them. I guess >> it's probably 24 in, but it might be 18 in, but it's Yeah, it's a horrible

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trench. I I've watched um SH Shell install their fiber in using the um the trenching machine and it it there's no way it goes down 24 in. I mean I washed them down my entire

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driveway and I would say it averaged maybe six to eight inches. M >> um and it wasn't because they couldn't go any, you know, deeper, but that's what the um you know, the trenching machine did. And it doesn't, you know, I So I think, you know, 24 in down is is I

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don't think there's much much fiber in Shootsbury that is actually buried that deeply, if it's buried at all. So, um >> my fiber's my fiber is pretty deep, I think. I mean, my conduit >> Well, mine certainly isn't. and um you

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know they just ran it down the driveway and you know and you know fired up that machine and I I mean I I was there during the installation and I I know that that machine isn't capable of putting fiber down 24 in in the ground. It's just not it's just not possible.

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>> Yeah, Jim Jim is right about this. We did several well actually most of our underground installations where there wasn't an existing conduit um were micro trenched and so so that puts the it it was like drop fiber that came in its own

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conduit >> and they and they they put it in >> maybe 12 in. Um, and the installers complained about the rocky soil and how hard that was and they they just kind of

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in a lot of cases did their best and tried to get it down at least 6 in. They're supposed to get it down 12, but >> um so >> it's less of it's less of a risk. It's less of a risk on a few hundred feet um of the drive for us. Well, my driveway

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is 1400 feet long and that's exactly what they did. Gail has described it exactly and >> I'm just saying that if that is the method that's used for installation that's going to be the result about you know 6 to 12 in on average.

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Let me uh Craig, your conduit installation, I assume the telecommunications conduit was installed when your house was built when when the when the electrical cable is also being put in. >> The electrical cable code requires it to

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be 24 in deep. As long as they're in that twoft trench, they put them all in there. But we're talking about just putting in uh just a telecommunications. No, you are correct. You are correct. Yeah. So, we do, you know, we do have a

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policy um of of well, it's it's a spec sheet for new installations um where, you know, a new house goes up and um the the spec sheet says what what the conduits have to be and it's the it's the 24 in because it's it's for all

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their underground utilities. Um I don't we have not Is this true? Well, I can't remember if we've had any um trench or or underground installs that were new that

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was not new construction. So, >> meeting the the beefed up electrical specs um and just just for telekcom. Um, I I can't remember anything that

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that had had like I I can't remember ever sent like needing to send out an underground digging crew uh or a vibratory plow um for anything since those initial installs. >> And at the new library, they just put in

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a a 4 inch conduit with the electric was so robust. >> It was Yeah. Right. I kind of like and a spare as well. Two 4 in. Yeah. So, >> I told them to save 10,000 bucks, but they they uh they didn't >> they didn't do it.

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>> It's the same as we did for the hut. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz the the electrical for the hut came over from the town hall, but the the fiber lines ran in from the uh the pole at the road, and you know, they put in the two 4in conduits buried deep down

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the town hall driveway. Right. Yeah. >> Well, I don't know. Would would a let let's say and and I think one of the challenges here is that the let's say we did have access to a um vibratory plow uh that could put in this, you know, a

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conduit down. Um it's not moving through through like a driveway, you know, like on the edge of a driveway. It's moving through deep woods, >> right? >> And I think that that is going to be the real problem with all the roots and the rocks. Um, >> yeah.

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>> Well, Jim, you're familiar with this property. Is there any I mean, they've got a driveway coming in somewhere? >> Yeah. >> Could it could it follow their driveway instead of this route through the woods? >> Well, I I I wouldn't go through the woods um just because of how much

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trouble that would be. I'd just go right down the driveway. put it right down the center of the driveway. Um, and um, that driveway has been there, I mean, Macedonia Road has been there for for, you know, for hundreds of years. And and

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that is a the the land and the dirt and the, you know, the the ground itself is pretty grally because it's it's not up high. It's it's down low where the river used to wash a lot of the dirt around, one thing or

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another. So it it may be it may not be that difficult. My driveway when they're running down my driveway, we we ran into some huge rocks, you know, and I had my tractor there with the forks and I was lifting big rocks just just sort of transporting them away so that they could make progress. But I don't think

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that um I don't think Macedonia Road would present the same problem. >> Okay. >> I think there's a lot more >> is a lot further going that way. It's a good idea going down the driveway. Uh, but is it does it double the length or is it just

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>> No, no, no. It's it's it's it's very it's the straightest possible run actually going down the driveway. >> That's it land does it land you near the pole? Yes, it there's a poll actually uh the Macedonia road splits splits it

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forks a little bit in from the road and predominantly they've been using the fork that's to the east but there's a fork to the west uh which is part which is part of the road and that and there's a phone pole that is right by the road

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on the next to the west fork and that's that's the route that I'm sure that that Sheld would rather take, you know, to to begin the run back along Macedonia Road. >> So, in summary here, we are not going to

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pay for the install on the road regardless. I think um if we tell them you want to install it as long as you use a licensed installer who who sticks to some whatever spec Sheld thinks is appropriate. If you do

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all of that, then then we'll cover it, I guess. >> Yeah. So, so there's never never were we going to cover this whole thing. Um, right. So, the >> I mean I mean we'll cover the service is what I meant. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I see. I see. Yeah.

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Yeah. And in terms of the in installation, it's um it's >> installation's on them. >> Yeah. Yeah. The installation's on them andor grant, >> right? >> Um so, >> and it has to be a licensed installer. Or it can't be some guy with a

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tool that he made up out of, you know, whatever. >> Well, it Well, I would say it could be some guy with a something as long as it meets our specs. >> Yeah. >> Or the the as long as it meets the specs as we we we have to allow that because we already allow that for everybody else

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of you can you can install the conduit any way you see fit. You can you can shovel it out. You can lay it by hand >> as long as it meets. So, as long as it meets the spec, we don't care who who who does it. It doesn't even have to, you know, any homeowner can do this.

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>> Given the length and complexity of this, how do we know if it meets our specs? >> Well, because we would, it's probably already in the original thing that we have the right of of inspecting the requirement of actually inspecting it as the MLP. So,

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>> but these micro trenches, these micro trenches, don't they sort of backfill right afterwards? So, we would never know how deep it was after the fact. They do. >> Yeah. You can watch them. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um the for the um we'll call them like you know like the

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electrical installs. Um what we require is the a new home that's being built. Calls us up and says we've installed the conduit. Um Graham's been the main person who's who's done this. I think I've done one of them. They have to call

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us ahead of time. We go and we inspect the trench that they've they've made looking conduit and we say good and they get a sign off on it and then we and then we give that. So we do have this process but you are correct. We do not have anything for a micro trench that's not the full electrical specs.

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>> Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. >> So that's something that we would have to we'd have to work out with them of the you know the installer would maybe have to sign something or they we'd have to go and inspect it at some point to say yes this this meets. This is why I say a licens or bonded installer because if it turns out the install was bad,

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then they eat the cost from you don't. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> and yeah. and you could look it up, but um it I wouldn't call it a micro uh fiber installation because that's that's

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where they saw cut um concrete and and really like half inch wide or a quarter inch wide and they really do drop something in that's a micro thing. This is what what the um what we had going up our driveways was um was fiber in in a

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duct that that um that the machine laid in there. So, so probably we we don't want to be calling it micro uh micro ducting because I think that's >> whatever whatever Sheld whatever Sheld wants Sheld wants to call it. >> Yeah. >> Well, Sheld

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Shel's equipment um you know using the trenching machine u the the um the conduit is a flexible half inch diameter conduit. That's what they use everywhere, >> right? and y and that seemed but it's

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not you know again it's not down to 18 to 24 in it's more like 6 to 12 depending on on all kinds of vagaries at the time and that I think can be done in on on Macedonia road um

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>> yeah how about yeah how about how about this I I think uh I think what we need to know is from uh the professionals like Sheld I need to get the specs from them of when it's a non-elect electrical um uh kind of like uh I don't know what

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to call it, but the robust um installation, what are the specs for the shallow dig halfin conduit installation that gets put in with a vibratory plow? What's just what is the spec for that? And once we know that, um, I think that

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we can know more about, um, how much this is going to cost for for the homeowner just or just hand that over to them and say, "This is what we need to see >> in order to install on this driveway." Well, they should be able to, you know,

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they should be able to comment on that because they used the trenching, the trenching machine, which the name of which I have forgotten, but it's a >> sort of a keshy name. And they use it. >> Ditch witch. It was a ditch witch. >> Ditch. That's it. Yes.

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>> The ditch witch. >> And they use that everywhere. They use it on my neighbors land, you know, just to go from the pole to the home. Um you they constantly use that machine to um

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you know to bury to bury a you know a flexible and very very good strong looking fiber fiber um cable and I don't mean fiber cable but a

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>> in an yeah it they use that everywhere when they were doing all those installations way back when I was watching them very closely so This would be just it wouldn't be abnormal for them to do it here.

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>> Yeah. >> So, on the co the installation getting back the installation cost. So, we potentially have $5,000 to put towards this from the grant, but things have got to move along now to utilize this. Is is

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the deadline on that also extended to the end of the calendar year? >> Yep. But of course, you don't want to be doing that sort of work in after the ground's frozen. So, no. >> So, you need to this would need to move move forward to to utilize the grant

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money. Do we want to put up any other funds as we did for as we would do for other installations? Yeah, I think in this case that our standard if if we decide to just call this a standard install that our regular

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uh $700 subsidy would would still apply. And I I don't see any reason why any homeowner wouldn't be able to double up, so to speak, of like you can use up to five grand of grant money plus on top of that the shoots subsidy to get closer

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to um to an install. So, it seems like we potentially have $5,700 to put towards the install. And if and if it's done as a um a st, you know, an industry standard

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install, then we don't need the uh the non-stand non-conventional policy wouldn't apply. >> Correct. And I think I've um been convinced that we need to not do this even though Sheld said, "Well, we could

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do it." Um because uh just laying fiber on the ground is such a poor practice and is not worth the trouble and the maintenance costs no matter who's covering them. >> Yeah. you know, even even if this is going to get us out of covering it, there's there's it just sounds like

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there's a lot of other things to consider in terms of tracking this having a non-conventional installation just floating out there in the world for forever and ever. Um, tracking deductibles. I'm just kind of seeing the light of this is like, all right, Gail, I don't think this is this is the right

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solution. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Burial is the only solution. and and burial right at that very very straight road is uh you know is I mean it's the obvious thing to do.

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>> Okay. I I I don't think going going through the woods would be I mean I I I have a lovehate rel well mo mostly a hate relationship with porcupines but I know what they are able to chew through and the damage that they can do is just

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phenomenal and and putting a fiber cable through the woods or lying it on the ground is just is just a surefire recipe for disaster. So I I we we have to stay away and tacking it to trees as Craig pointed out and and others is is is not

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really viable either. So I think the only solution is run that ditch witch right down the you know right down Macedonia road and um like they've done elsewhere. It's just a a lengthier run than they normally would do, but certainly one that they could easily

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wind up doing. >> Okay, great. All right. So, we of course would not I assume not be using our existing old uh fiber cable? >> Oh, good good question. Um I don't know,

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Graham. Any idea? Could we get um could we get fiber through there through a conduit? I I think the the standard um the standard install up a driveway would be two fibers, you know,

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and that that would be cheapest and most cheaper than using what we now know is old fiber that's, you know, it's got a shorter life left in it. Yeah. So, I wouldn't I would say, you know, less than 50 cents, probably 50 cents a foot or something for whatever it is that

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they pull into inner duct. Um and as um as Jim was saying, it's already in the inner duct. So, it's just laying it in the ground. >> Yeah. >> Along a driveway. >> Yeah. Okay. So, so just use the the uh shallow conduit with the uh with the

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with the fiber pre-inserted into it. >> Yeah. The the standard product. Yeah. Comes on rails. >> Okay. I'm going to find out the specs on this um and

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um get two numbers here. One is that I'm going to go back to Sheldon and say, "Okay, just what if we ran it down down the um just ran it ran it down the driveway." And then Jim, I'm going to talk to you

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offline about having the homeowner and maybe you can help them. Um just get a get a ballpark quote for somebody else to do this and install the half inch shallow conduit to whatever specs I find out. um just to see what we're working

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with. All right. >> Any anyone like Certex or I think did Certex do the ditch witch stuff in our town could give you a price per foot. So they you know they don't need to if they're going along a driveway. Um >> then they could just quote it. It it

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will it will and it will also probably wind up being a lot less expensive than initially the estimates have been most I mean my driveway I think I think the estimate to do my driveway my installation was $17,000

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um which seemed absolutely prohibitive way back when and they brought the ditch witch out there and you know in a morning they were able to run from the top of the driveway to the bottom of the driveway just chugging that machine right along and you I was amazed at how

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effective it was. It just kind of crunched its way, you know, steadily right down the driveway without any hassle whatsoever. And it was a a sort of a piece of cake of an installation. So, so, um, I I think the dishwitch solution is the best possible and we could we could offer.

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>> All right. Well, let's let's see what we can do for that and and move towards it and get more information um about costs and specs and I'll keep working on it. >> All right. And do they have any electricity in the house, Jim? >> Well, what? Well, they have solar panels

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that provide power. >> Okay. >> And and they run lights and various things off of it. And as we all know, don't don't consume a whole lot of power. >> I need a 12 volts. >> Yeah. 12 volts is all you need. So

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>> So 10. Yeah. >> Yeah. So it it wouldn't be, you know, a problem keeping the lit up at all times. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Gale, uh, one more question. Just rolling back to the beginning of our,

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uh, talk of this this evening. Um, you'd said there was a cost out there for, uh, an an estimate of conduit at like 25 $30,000. Was that for putting traditional conduit that you you know

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with an excavator down two feet and full-size conduit? >> I believe that that was trying trying to do the ditch wish through the woods. >> Ah okay. >> So >> okay. Um, and I and and because all of

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those underground installs um were the the estimates for them were were made through that >> or like for for that method. And like Jim said, a lot of them were overestimated um because they never, you know, they

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never knew what they were going to encounter. And sometimes a small installation took a full day because you'd hit a huge boulder, you'd have to go around it, whatever. Um, so, um, >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> All right. Um, that is it for my list today. Um, anything else? No. >> Second. >> Excellent. All right. Well, let's do it.

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Um Jim, right after this, I will um send you the real estimates. >> Okay. Yes. So, because I'm gonna, as always, I work on the notes right after the meeting ends. So, >> yeah. Yep. All right. I'll send those I'll send those to you right away. And

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um yeah, I think that's it. Our next meeting is let's see what is the third. It's the 17th of June. And

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let's see if you'll bear with me one moment. I just want to check my calendar. I think I might be away for that time period. I've got to sign off, guys. I'll just >> look for your emails. >> Sounds Sounds good. Hi, Greg. Thanks for

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coming. Okay, it looks like um I have backtoback family reunions. >> Well, that sounds nice. >> Yeah. So, >> you can invite them to the Zoom, >> right? Oh, you'll you'll love them.

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It'll it would be fun. Um, so, um, what if we delayed two weeks and met on July 1st instead? >> Sounds fine. >> Is that Does that work for all of you? >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. Some I something is jumping out at me about that day, but I looked at my calendar. I don't have anything written down. So, >> all right. Let's let's do a tenative on that date. Um, you know, there's other

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um dates that uh that week that could also work. Um, and that'll also be a nice um wrap-up because that'll be the the very end of the fiscal year >> and so we can say goodbye to Graham and welcome Andy in.

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>> Um, so let's go with uh July 1. Steve or anybody, let me know if that doesn't work and we'll we'll rearrange. >> Okay. No. >> All right. All right. Well, thanks guys. Enjoy this beautiful weather and stay

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cool. Yeah, you too. Good night, everyone. Good night. >> Good night.