record to the cloud. All right, welcome everyone to the November 19th meeting of the MLP. Um, I'm Gail Hundress, MLP manager, facilitating the meeting. This meeting is fully remote. Participating also
remotely, we have MLP board members Jim Hemingway and Graham Septton. Steve Schmidt is absent tonight. And joining us also we have community member Craig Martin. Uh first item of business is to approve the previous meeting minutes
from October 29th as >> by Jim. >> Thank you Graham. >> Seconded. >> Thank you. And all in favor? >> That was lucky. >> There you go. Jim, >> I know it's sort of cheating.
>> Yeah. is an I. >> Graham is an I and Jim is a >> I. >> Excellent. >> All right. Um All right. Um let's do hot report.
Graham, you're up. Yeah, there was an interesting month with the heart and and Steve actually was there when we when Steve and I turned up uh as you might recall from last month which wasn't very long ago um that Steve wanted to come and see the generator tested under under
load and um and so with a little more priding um uh Puric Electric did turn up for the annual um uh yeah they do six or seven generators in the town and uh and um they did ours first and u at the
heart and um and when Steve and I and and so to finish off that part of the story that was good because sure enough the um the reprogrammed generator did wait. So, um knock off the power to the
heart from the utility. Um and nothing happens for 2 minutes um because the generator is now programmed to wait and see if this is really a power out. And so, and then after 2 minutes, the uh the generator did start up and um and then
another bang on the uh on the automatic transfer switch as it picked up the load. Um, and of course, while it wasn't in that 2 minutes that it wasn't picking up the load, the um the UPS system ran all the equipment and the only the only
thing that was missing from inside the hut was um the overhead lights, but there's so many blue lights and green lights and red lights that you hardly know that the lights have gone out. Um, so um uh so anyhow, that that that worked well. Um he ran it for 5 minutes
um to show that you know the generator could hold the load. Um and um and then he and then he um he turned the utility power back on um to test the other side of the programming for the generator
which is that it waits 2 minutes now to make sure that the utility isn't just bouncing in and out for you know as sometimes um uh after you know trees fall on lines and stuff happens. So anyhow, so it did everything that it had been reprogrammed to last year and it
still picks up load. Um so that was good to see it happen. And uh um so but the the other part of it um uh the the thing that made the visit to the hut interesting uh more interesting was when
we walked in there I uh I noticed that on the outside of the hut the fan was running on the outside. So, you know, I looked inside and the the single the um the southside HVAC unit inside the hut had turned itself off. And uh and this
was the second time it's done it in two weeks. And um and at that point, you know, I I told Steve, you know, this is this is a totally unfortunate thing. So the south side on the inside the uh the south HVAC unit is
the one that the mice invaded and um and chewed through a couple of things which got replaced. But I'd always been um of the uh you know, I'm sure Jim, well, I'm sure anyone can imagine if mice are are
peeing and uh and and crapping on a printed circuit board that um that it is going to leave residue on that circuit board, which uh in the long run is going to oxidize in ways that are, you know, across Yeah. PC boards. Yeah. the gaps
are angstroms almost, you know, they're milligrons, whatever. Yeah, they're microns. They're small and yeah, and the corrosion and whatever. So, anyhow, so I think that this is um this is uh Jim, you obviously uh have
>> uh you said that mice are responsible for this this time around. >> Conjecture, but now this was from years ago, but the mice >> Oh, yeah, I remember. Yeah, I remember the discussion. the mice but but but you know I was there when they emptied the mice out of the box. Um, the mice in
that unit on the wall couldn't get into the hut, but that because they were enclosed by the metal box of the thing, but they did uh they were obviously packed in there. And uh and um and at the time I thought this is not uh I kind of figured, oh, you know, we should
replace that. But, you know, the uh the uh whoever they were, the the um the contractor at the time said, oh, no, no, we can clean out my stuff. We clean out mice out of these things all the time. Um and I thought okay so you know we got another two years out of it I suppose
but it cost money to even to do whatever repairs we did have to do. So it it might have paid off but anyhow um um I u I initially I sort of figured okay well I'll ask uh you know I'll ask everyone
here to approve just replacing the mousy unit. Um but then after a few more days I kind of thought well you know at this time of year um as I know because I regularly look at the hut temperature
even without any HVAC running in the hut the the hut was was only was holding temperature pretty much you know it's right at a balance point for the ne for a couple of months in this time of the year and the only reason I had to go in uh on a Friday night or a Saturday night
was because it was a warm couple of days. Um and um and the temperature actually started creeping up to 78 something like that in the heart. So So I I figured well I couldn't trust it to um but but now it's totally trustworthy because the hut will always it will
almost keep its own temperature. So I figure therefore um get some more wear out of out of the crummy one and replace it um before cooling season starts next um uh in the springtime. So that that would be my suggestion. Um we can get
>> Mhm. >> So so so vote to vote to replace it, but but we'll wait until um until it actually needs to be replaced, which would be um in when before cooling season starts. >> Yeah. So, um, in in the meantime though,
for the this whole winter, then we're just going to, um, kind of turn it on and and let it run with the expectation they'll probably fail and turn itself off and not work very well. >> Use it up. Yep. And, uh, and and it's absolutely no risk. It's not even inconvenient because, as you know, now
the uh, the exhaust fan is now set at, 84 degrees or something like that. So if the temperature had got up the other night, you know, if the temperature had got up to 84 um before I got to the hut, then the exhaust fan would have would have turned on until the temperature went down below 84 and
then it would have the exhaust would have so the exhaust would turn on and off until um until someone did something about it. So but it' keep the hot you know on outside cooling from outside in a reasonable manner. So and it's the thermostat control there. So, it's kind
of like, you know, it's not it's not just bringing in 30 20° air um uh without stopping. >> Yeah. Yeah. That south unit, you know, another another theory is that it could have just been a lemon. You know, it's
had since the beginning it just had had problems. Yes. It had the mouth mouse problem, but you know, all those electrical issues. And >> so, um >> I don't think it did anything wrong until the mice. Yeah, but it was it was so it was so early though. I mean it was
only like a year when when was when did we first have that mouse issue? 20 >> 21. >> It's a while ago. Yeah. >> A while ago. Yeah. >> Yeah. So it was so and that you know it was only running I think two years. >> Yeah. >> But regardless whatever the problem was
>> and then the other one got hit by the surge issue. So we spent a bunch of money on the on the other one because the mouse one had been turned off and therefore it was protected from the surge, you know. Uh, so you know, no. >> Yeah. Yeah. Graham, do you think it's worth it to have Pioneer Valley come out
and run, you know, more diagnostics on it and with the potential of replacing the circuit boards or at this point, do you think we've sunk enough money into the unit and kind of done enough repairs that it makes sense just to replace the
whole thing? I I think with so many electronic things, it just never pays you to um to replace. It's like your TV, you know, um replacing things inside the cost of the manufacturing is so much more efficient um and cost effective
that remanufacturing it. Yeah. On on, you know, it just doesn't make any sense. And the other reason it's not a good idea is because the people who build them build them all the time, but someone replacing at the board level, you know, it's it's not like a computer
where you can pull in and out. They're not designed to be repaired. That's that's um you know it's it's a $600 um well before maybe before tariffs it it was a $600 unit on the wall and then there's a thousand bucks to install it
because they've got to get all the refrigerant out and then pressure it back up and this that and the other. So you know it's a fair bit of labor. But if you added labor of pulling out circuit boards, you'd have to get rid of every bit of electronics in there because you don't know which things the
mice peed on as well. So, you know, it's every it's anything that's electrical in there. I would I would not want to have anything to do with it. >> Got it. Okay. Yeah. This is um I'm I'm fine to just make a note that we'll be
replacing the south unit in in March. Marchish. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I won't forget because it'll turn itself off a few more times, I'm sure. Yeah. >> So, you're talking about replacing the whole the whole south unit as opposed to just the boards. >> The whole indoor unit. That was the
thing that uh no mice lived in the outdoor unit. It's just the internal wall unit sitting up on the wall. >> Okay. The the inside one. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. The inside on the south. It's unit one, but that means nothing if
you're it's it's better, as Steve pointed out, it's better to say south. Oh, >> well, these HVACs are sure not very dependable. I wonder if everybody who, you know, there's been a big rush to install heat pumps all over the place. I wonder if everybody in town is suffering
um from these kind of intermittent issues. >> They have 15 to 25 year life lifetime expectancy. So, yeah, they're um they don't do much better than they they don't do as good as a fridge at this point. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I know that I know that the ones
at the fire station got blown in that surge event that affected us, too. >> And in the town hall and inside the town hall as well. >> Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think I think with that surge event was actually 240 volts going
to just one-sided 120 volts and and screwing it up. Yeah. you. It's like, you know, it doesn't work when you put 120 volts on. One side fell off, got broken by the tree, whatever it was.
>> All right. >> Um, well, good, Graham. We will connect about that in March. Um, >> you bet. Yeah, >> sounds good. >> Um, all right. Um, let's see. So, maintenance and service report, we had
28 tickets in October. Pretty normal month. Um, no takers yet for the B beyond the router support. Um, but it's only been going about a month. So, um, uh, I don't think that's that's unusual. I'll keep monitoring that. Um, let's
see. The library installation project continues to roll forward. A bit complicated figuring out the how grant payments work because we don't have the money yet. And you know I've been working with Gail Weiss like how do we code these so that they get paid. Anyway
um it's happening and um Graham has done a wonderful job and Graham do you want to talk about your installation of the ubiquity switches and routers today? >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. and and uh on Monday I went in there and put in a ubiquity
switch and it's one of these things that um that has a um you can remote in you can manage it remotely as a network and um Ubiquiti has made their name in that um and they they do you know homes and
enterprises so they they're very sophisticated but they can scale it down to um something like a library a small enterprise and um um and so Um, so yeah, I became educated on all the things that uh it was it was Shell that wanted us to
get a a fancier firewall capability on the um uh on the library so that so that um you know someone wouldn't do something three times and get the whole library shut down um for um for um
intellectual property sort of file stealing or whatever. So, um, so this was u kind of this suggestion that that Chel um had and um and it it turns out um you probably uh I don't know whether you've seen your email but you saw the
picture did you Gail that I sent of of Yeah. So it it'll it as you whether you're there and looking at it on a laptop or whether you're somewhere else, you can see that the network is what it's you know it does a beautiful diagram of of the of the uh the internet
and the router and and the switch and all the things that the switch is connected to and um and and so it Yeah, here here it comes maybe. Um um and it's totally uh and so you know there's the
you know take take my word for it that's if if the screen was bigger if you have a big display um yeah so you can kind of see everything that's going on and if something goes wrong then it's kind of um you know it's easy for whoever the IT
person is um or you get you know for 12 bucks a month you you or you know 20 bucks a month depending on how fancy you get someone to manage the system which is something that the library figured that they might do. So if you look at
the one two three blue um uh things uh that are the fourth row down they're the the the access points. Uh >> oh yeah right right yeah so two of them are outside and I've already tested uh Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um uh two of them
are outside and um they're our beginning of our uh well firew world secure you know um somewhat more robust um uh public Wi-Fi for Shootsbury you know and the library was happy to host um the actual APS on the outside um and it's
the same you know public Wi-Fi inside as well but here's the cute thing is that um um extending um G you are Extending public Wi-Fi to somewhere else in town uh is as
simple as buying another one of these guys. They are like 200 and 200 bucks something uh um outside rated or indoor rated um APS u that are ubiquity APS and
you plug it into um the switch there um that hard to see uh and you um you add it to the system by you know clicking on the right uh management tools um and um and then you can unplug it and take it
anywhere. where in the world and and uh >> yeah yeah yeah I I don't guarantee anywhere in the world but you can certainly will be able to find it anywhere in Shootsbury um because it it um it it just it turns it into a part of
the network which the network then um it's a cloud-based network and the cloud finds it again. So uh so it's pretty cool. Maybe you can take it anywhere in the world. I'm not going to do that experiment but um >> Wow. Okay. So, so conceivably even without even you know we had talked
about extending um you know some fiber from the library up to um the town hall we don't we don't even have to do that. We could just buy we couple buy more of these put them at the town hall and it could all be part of the shoots net public.
>> Yes. Correct. Yeah. And >> wow. >> Should we just do it? >> So so we'll buy another one and we'll try it. Um but uh still has to hook into a switch, right? >> It's still plugging into a switch and that switch will be the thing that uh so
it'll have an IP address that it that that it'll find again. Yeah. So, >> the main thing is that is that people then can log in public. >> Yes. Yes. It'll it'll it'll remember whatever the Yeah. It'll have all the SSIDs that that one initially installs
in it. So uh u and for that one instead of putting the library SSIDs on that one, one would configure it just to have the public. Yeah. So bringing this new one there, the one that you're going to take away. Yeah. Yeah. So you just Yeah.
So uh um so anyhow it's it's it's kind of one of the reasons also why um I I've become less uh the the value added that Kaix had with managed routers. other people are coming to the party with with
with um with these sort of solutions and uh and um and so you don't need um you don't need Kaix to do it and um and this is more sophisticated as you know Craig um than the management router that that
that we that we can turn on with um uh Command IQ or whatever it's called. So >> and I used to have Ubiquiti in my house um and >> Oh, you did? Oh, okay. Oh, >> I liked it a lot. But then what? >> Okay. >> And then we got our shoot spray on one. >> You went to Lynxes. You downgraded to
Lynxes. >> Was a bit of a downgrade. Yeah. But I I decided to tow the line. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, where are future town meetings? Are they still going to be at town hall or do we know? >> I I think the town hall is uh Well,
actually, it's that's a good point. One could bring one of these to a a town meeting in the in the school gym. One could plug in the the the router because because of as we know, you know, school has different security issues and
considerations. >> Uh so um uh so yeah. Um but yeah, we we should buy um uh G, I'll give you the part number for that if you don't already have it. And um then we'll just plug one in. And uh uh when you're buying um uh test routers um you can um
buy one of them as well. >> That'd be great. That'd be great. Um do we do we need a switch as well or just >> um No, any Ethernet switch I think it'll work. Anyone? Okay. So, uh yeah. So, we do have to find a switch in the library, but no, it doesn't even matter. It can
plug into um it could plug into the spare port on any router in the uh in the in the public in the library. the router will the router even though the router in the town hall is not ubiquity it's it it does I it speaks IP and
that's all it needs to do >> in the school there might be there might be device restrictions in place so we might have to >> there might be for a town meeting though it's like state law govern no but I'm talking about we might have to talk to the whoever runs the IT and the school
>> yeah I I've already done that I've I've approached them I said we would be glad to set up a public Wi-Fi network for you for free. We will pay for all of the equipment. We will pay for the setup. And they turned me down. They said, "No, we don't we don't want it here." Um,
>> you need to emphasize to them that >> it won't allow any access to any of the computers on in the school. It'll be it'll be firewalled or whatever. >> Correct. Yes. Yeah. And that's one of the settings on this is that anybody who is is in the public network cannot see
anybody else, cannot talk to anybody else, cannot share things with anybody else. So um so that's one of the settings that >> their concern is making sure that some disaster doesn't happen and get us in the Boston Globe. I get it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But it's a town meeting. It's a town
meeting. They're already exposed to to to whatever sort of disaster. That's why they don't want public access in the school as somebody might do something nefarious with children, you know. I >> No, >> it's not it's not it's perception more than reality. But >> it's a valid.
>> Anyway, we we we only need a port during a meeting and we could walk away with it if they if they would go for that. >> We may end up doing that. Yeah. And I the select board tells them they have to do it then then. >> Yeah. I would think so. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know it's a town meeting. We we are going to vote on their budget. So
you know what's We got to get Yeah. >> Yeah. So, what what they did at the last special town meeting was they set up a temporary guest network >> only broadcast in the gym um and so that
people could have Wi-Fi access and they seem just really adamant that they want control of that. So, they are doing it um setting up a a a public um network there. Um, so I am
>> we just we'll give them we could give them the uh the AP and uh >> them on the fact that this thing will not present a threat to network at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. But we I can I can write two paragraphs to uh to to say the buzzwords
that might um >> I mean they're doing what they're supposed to do, so I'm you I'm not going to get mad at them. >> No. No. >> Yeah. So Graham, I would love those two paragraphs. I tried to uh do this once already again and was turned down. So maybe I'm not using the right the right buzzwords um
>> to see to see if they want that. And then when we get an answer from them, we might buy two of these, right? One for the school, one for the town hall. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Um, I'm still I'm still uh there were things
on the uh on the uh what do you call the contract um in the library that that didn't get in the uh the scope. There's there's a few things that I'll have to uh um uh that I can do um to save them doing a change order on the contract,
which would be a pain in the butt and cost more money. So um so I'll do the library stuff and I'll finish off. Um, I'm still learning some of the acronyms of of of the firewall stuff. So, um, so wait until I know all the buzzwords and
um then I'll write I'll remember that you need a couple of paragraphs to uh to explain what it all is. I I'll have I'll have to write that to myself anyhow just so I remember what uh what the parts were. >> Got it. and grammar we are still going
to um do the paid service with ubiquity to do all the protections. um you know I I um yeah I haven't I haven't completed the research on that but that that's that'd be the easy one for um as soon as I want to hand this
off I'll I'll pick the reason I haven't picked which one is because um until I know what all there are a bunch of different choices and until I understand what the different flavors of the different services were offered and which ones we really need I um I also
put that on the back burner. So, uh, but it's it's less than 20 bucks a month to get everything that we would need. Um, um, and, um, and it's probably it's probably 12 or 15 bucks a month. But anyhow, I'll find out.
>> Okay. That's that's great. I'm less concerned about the the the cost of it and um, just more of, you know, like making sure we choose one that's >> Yeah. does what we want. >> There seem to be third parties. there seem to be third parties, not not just Unify and Ubiquity, but there are third
party people who just, you know, understand how to do this and they're happy to do it as a um a remote service. So, um so it's kind of like one of these things if you uh if you're looking for it, you kind of get a lot of uh you have to, you know, think, okay, which one is
which one do I want? >> Okay. Did um did Maryanne say anything about about the the um the guest password to you? Well, um she wanted it to be easy and um and the current one at the library and
it's no secret I believe is 0000 eight zeros. No, six zeros. >> Um um the the password if one has passwords on the ubiquity um uh SSIDs then they have to be minimum eight
characters. Um it it it as you might have seen in the email um I wrote today, I realized as I was there uh right now the um I just defaulted to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 as a for the public access um um without suggesting that that should be
the final one. But I realized because of the issue of um the if if we really want to have uh um uh the the issue solved of someone saying that they understand there's a policy and that they won't
break the law, then it would be easy to make the password just something like agreeable or you know uh policy agreed or something like that. Um because you only have to enter it once like any SSID. >> Sure. Sure.
>> Yeah. And um and so you know um most people can write the two words policy agreed um if they can spell and um and and then um you know um you've kind of got them by the short and curies or
whatever. M um so yeah uh there'll be many people who can't even do 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 you know because um um because they just don't you know they're not that um uh yeah so and the librarian is
there to help those people u so it's not going to be an issue either way you know um if someone just doesn't understand how to log in the first time then um then you know the person at the the uh
the uh reference desk there can um get them in. So, forever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I I think that that is a I I think legally that's that's fine. Um uh also um you know is another option to
do no password and then and then just you know have them have them hit um uh you know like we had talked about a splash page of an of like just hitting a button saying like I agree to the policy and then it lets you in like what you
have at airports and things. Um, >> I think that makes it more complicated than than um some people will be able to. Uh, I think that's a level level of complication that that that Marian I guess you only have to hit the splash page once, right? Maybe that's >> Oh, yeah. I would say I would I would
only go for that option if it's a one time thing. I I Yes, I agree that somebody hitting it every single time is a terrible idea. >> Um, >> so I don't know. We can we can take this offline Graham and just talk talk to Maryanne about what you know what what do you want this either you know policy
agreed or can you know I guess for us >> um an investigation of of like >> the splash page what does it look like when we put a document in there and and an agreement um and does it really only come up once >> yeah I'll I'll look I'll look more into
that and we can definitely talk to Maryanne. Yeah. >> Great. Thank you. All right. All right. I'm just making a note of splash page or I agree password >> with with no password. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yep. >> There are more and more places um in my experience of of public Wi-Fi where you don't have a splash page and where you don't have anything. And it just seems like maybe it's because their firewalls are so confident that they just, you know, that they're just not worried
about it. I don't know. >> Yeah, it seem it it it seems to be to be rarer. And I think >> I think that the two things we're just trying to balance are like what what are we sure protects the libraries network? I I'm I'm actually less concerned about
some, you know, somebody getting in there and like hacking. It's more from the legal standpoint. >> Oh, yeah. No, it's it's just intellectual property. That's and the only reason Sheld is worried about it is because um when when there's no certainty of who the person was in the
library, the the intellectual property holder then goes after the the ISP. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So that that's that's why the ISP is has got their skin in the game. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> All right. Um,
hold on. Bear with me one second. I'm just trying to stop the uh the screen sharing, which is being a little bit problematic. Oh, I didn't want to close that one. Well, the Oh, there it is. It's way down
there. The floating Zoom bar. Okay, got me again. All right. Well, we won't talk about the budget quite yet, but I'll leave the sharing on. Um, all right. So, we covered the library.
Um, and financially, um, we're, you know, still in good shape. Positive balance of about $46,410 currently. Um,
we do have the 117,000 which was approved by our auditor in September, but as usual that is lingering in limbo until it gets voted on at the town meeting. Um, we have this um this grant fund. This is not the
grant that we're currently working with. This is this is the leftover CF calf 2 funding um that um is coming from Westfield. So um not we don't have to decide tonight but just know that this is this
is lingering here. So we could put this towards emergency reserve. We could put this towards buying new routers or anything else um that is um you know in support or perpetuation of our network.
Um let's see. Um financially also for next meeting I will have a draft of our um uh fiscal year 27 budget. It's actually time to start doing that. The finance committee and the select board is trying
to get that done earlier than in past years. um especially with the budget issues that so many of the committees are are facing. It doesn't it doesn't affect us. It it it doesn't affect them of of like, you know, we're not have to use anything from the tax base, but
they're still doing this much earlier. Um so, um I expect that that'll happen in late January, early February. Um but we, you know, for for our our budget, there's no big changes or surprises. Um,
I think it'll it'll probably hold steady, which is nice for the first time in a while. I don't I think we've we've hit hit the upper limit for now for um price increases. Our contract is stable.
Um, no promises on materials. Um, but, you know, I think we have enough enough headroom to absorb um some pretty big inflation costs if those end up happening. Um, let's see.
Um, I submitted our annual report. Um, thanks to Jim, um, for helping us sound less like a robot. Um, and I think it was a good report and and it's it's interesting seeing what kind of like
what AI did a year ago to to now. It's like it's actually remarkably better, I thought, than than than than how they or how it um made our report from all of our past minutes as a first draft. So,
um >> it it didn't seem to make up anything either. >> No. No. And and last time there's tons of mistakes. Like Jim and I spent a lot more time like going through and being like, "That's not right." And this time it's like, "No, no, that's actually pretty pretty accurate." I mean, I cut a couple of things, but it was um yeah,
it's it's it's really neat. Um let's see. The license uh the pole license project for um West Pelum Road um the distribution cabinet continues to crawl along. About every week I get a a missive from National Grid or Verizon
saying, "You neglected to put this into your application." And then I reach out to my friend who's now my friend at National Grid and say, "Um, I think you have this already." And then he writes back and he says, "Oh, yeah, we have that. That you you shouldn't have gotten
that." Um, so Oh, oh, utilities. >> Yeah. >> Um, let's see. Um over the next uh couple of weeks I'll be sending out invitations for new members for the MLP, inviting
them to run. Um Graham to take take your your seat um coming up. Um and Craig, thank you for being back up on that if we have no takers. >> Sure. >> Thank you, Craig. >> No problem.
Um, and let's see. The kind of the last I I knew this meeting was going to be quick. Um, and the last thing that I wanted to talk about is um our routers. Um, just kind
of like what's our our our next steps with those. Take a look at the spreadsheet. Um, and I think the next step is for me just to buy a handful of these so that we can test them. Uh, but I do want to talk through what do we do when we get them. Um, who wants to test?
What kinds of tests? Um, so, um, yeah, let's let's take a look at this here. I can make it a little bit bigger. All right. So, we have the um two ASUS models.
We have the Netgear Nighthawk. Um there is a I I did a little bit more research on this. There is an upgraded model to this. Um, that's the Netgear RS150 instead of the RS90. Um, that's um,
uh, a bit a bit more expensive. I Oh, I didn't I didn't put the price in there. Um, but I'm wondering if we should get two two net gears. They look exactly the same. So, you know, here's the the RS70 and the RS90. They they all
look exactly the same from the outside. Um, and then our TP links and um, yeah, I think I think those are are the the main contenders. Um, I would want to
know from you all, are we doing the right thing by just going after Wi-Fi 7s here? Should we not even look at Wi-Fi 6s? I kind of assumed that because the Wi-Fi 7s are the latest and greatest technology to kind of get these to last and be futurep proofed.
>> Yeah, >> I think Wi-Fi 6, Wi-Fi 6 is enough. Wi-Fi 6. Uh there's a there's a is there an added thing is is there a a Wi-Fi 6 advanced or enhanced or something as well? Um I can't remember whether I saw
that, but anyway. Yeah. Uh Craig, what do you think? >> Yeah, I I don't know. It depends what the price differential is and and whether we can afford it, I guess. >> Yeah. >> Um as it is as it is, we're replacing routers that are still performing just
fine, right? So, um, if if we get a if we get a Wi-Fi 7 router, it's possible that we'll replace it when it's still doing fine. And and and that's good. Of course, we do want to replace them before they start having limitations. But it's a very good point. Yeah. That
that yeah, by the time Yeah, it'll it'll it'll last longer than it gives a benefit for the things that Wi-Fi 7 does. um as you pointed out um some months ago, Craig, are things that are
for high uh channel interference that doesn't happen in nearly any um Yeah. where there's >> apartment buildings where uh there's a lot of a lot of stuff that potentially conflicts, >> which is not an issue for us, right?
>> Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you have five neighbors that you can see, then um Wi-Fi 6 is is you'd never need Wi-Fi 7 for that. So, >> yeah. >> But, uh yeah. Yeah. I I'd say I'd say
probably the benefit of if we do two if we offer a basic thing and a and an enhanced thing, then the basic one being Wi-Fi 6 would be um totally uh >> that's that's an idea. Yeah, that's an idea
>> that would save a lot of money and um and um like you say in five or six years time um you know >> Wi-Fi 6 will still be just fine. Yeah. >> Yes. Exa Exactly right. Yeah. Because Yeah. Yeah. So So yeah, I'd say I'd say
a six um as the as the basic model and and a seven or a seven as the um as the enhanced one. Um and um and uh you know we did mention or say you know and they
they maybe they should be the same um brand but uh the same maker but that you know I I wouldn't say that that makes much of a hill of beans of uh Sheld's not going to carry them on their trucks. I mean it's always going to be uh um you
know if if one of them breaks it's you know we'll have spares somewhere. Yeah. No, that's not a concern. My concern was more that if I don't to the extent that Shell handles um phone calls from people, it's easier. It might be it
might be easier for them if they're dealing with one family because >> the interface will be the same every you know the Yeah, that's my my only reason. So, we could ask the Shell tech support people if if they think it's an issue or not. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I I think a big
one one of the most important things is as we've discussed that uh they should be easily installed, you know, if they're not easy to install. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. >> Because >> and all the newer ones are that way, but they I think they're getting easier and easier now as
>> they're getting easy. Yeah. >> Yep. Yeah. Easy to install is super important. >> Yeah. Tell me tell me about wall mounting. >> Do you think that's important? And the reason I asked is because this one, which is my favorite high-end model and
um came top rated by Wire Cutter and >> uh there's no wall mount on it. >> You're talking about the the BE5000? >> Yeah, this one right here. >> Oh, 550. >> Oh, sorry. Yeah, the 550. >> Nearly everyone in town has them sitting
on counters and tables and behind things on the floor, right? Hardly anyone puts them hardly anyone has mounted a Lynxus on the wall as far as I know. >> Yeah. I mean, you have to be a real wonk because even if you mount it on the wall, you still have to have the power cord and the Ethernet cable coming down
from that >> and most people probably don't want to see that. So, unless you're going to bury that unless you're going to bury that behind the drywall or something, which you know a wonk could do. >> Um, and and if they're big and ugly like this, I don't see a purpose of wall mounting. There was one that that I had
found that was like a nice little, you know, it looked kind of like a smoke detector or whatever. And that I could see mounting >> I could see mounting that on the wall, >> but but again, you still have the issue they're not showing in the picture there, that there's going to be wires coming off of it.
>> Yeah. And the wall is not the wall is not going to look pretty. You want >> Exactly. >> You want to have to fish them through the wall that that >> Exactly. Exactly. So the only reason to mount only reason to wall only reason to wall mount it is to get it up a little higher so that it
can get around the room better. But >> again I doubt anybody in town is doing that right now. >> Are you sure it's a good idea to offer two routers a lowend and a highend? Um I
I wonder about that. I don't know >> because of the it's just of the complication of distributing them. You know, how many of the pions do we buy and have available at uh at the annual town meeting? I mean, there's just I I
think we ought to just stick to one one router and those people who want to do the deluxe Wi-Fi 7 the whole nine yards would would run out and buy their own, I guess. Um I I just wonder I I just don't think we should make it too complicated for ourselves and just offer one router
>> one good router. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good that's a good point. I think that there's our I people get overwhelmed when there's a lot of decision points of like do you want a new router? Okay, which one do you want? And this one is $20 more and
then dealing with you know money exchange about that. Um, you know, yeah, you know, I do I do like, you know, kind of the idea of of a premium option, but it it it introduces a lot of extra complication
>> to this to to the process of it. >> Um, and um, yeah. So, you know, another thing I think that needs to get worked into this whole plan is um well, a townwide like
electronics recycling or waste, >> you know, you know, waste thing. Um that, you know, I I I know that people are going to be asking about this like this is going to create a lot of waste >> and and and a way to have a collection point for that. Um, so anyway, I'll
>> it would be lever. It would be lever at the moment the recycling place. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's, you know, and it if if we do that, it will add some cost to it. But I imagine, you know, you can bring it to the lever recycling center and and we just pay the, you know, $2 or
whatever it is to for them to take that. >> But you're right, they could they could throw it in our box and we could we could make that run for them. Yeah. Oh yeah, true. Well, I'll give I'll give up the high end if uh if um it seems too complicated, but um but uh yeah.
>> Yeah, the Well, you know, I I I feel kind of strongly that we should offer Wi-Fi 7. I do understand that Wi-Fi 6 is fine. It's going to be six for years, but there's an optics issue here, too, of people are like, we're giving we're you're distributing new routers and you're not doing like the latest. Um,
and and when you compare the pricings of these, there's not um uh there's not a like it it's not outrageous in in terms of the pricing difference. Like, you know, you can find plenty of Wi-Fi 6 routers for $130, too.
Um, so >> yeah, >> here here's my guess. Here's my guess on that as someone who did do electrical design. Um, if someone told me as a designer um to uh to to make something
that that um that that met WiFi 7 specs and that had to price uh at Wi-Fi 6 pricing, then I would have to I would be able to do that, but I would have to cut corners to u there'd be various things
that um that um you know, it would be no it would not be a good Wi-Fi 7 to get um the cheapest Wi-Fi uh seven. >> I think you're assuming a little too much there. I think a lot of this just
is Wi-Fi 6 companies if it's still selling why should they lower the price and some people are trying to be aggressive and get in the market. Um, I wouldn't assume that that the lower-end Wi-Fi 7s are any
less reliable or whatever than the Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't assume that. >> And I also feel strongly that we should not get low-end anything >> that the money that we save that if we do go with Wi-Fi 7, it's going to be like a mid-range like what we did did with
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're not So, I'm I'm not I'm not proposing of like, no, no, we'll just get Wi-Fi 7 and do a cheapo. know, if we're going to do this, we're going to do this right and get something that's going to last. >> But can I say all of these routers that you're listening um are not I don't
think any of them are triband. Um they if they're usually >> Yeah, I see triband. >> That one is, but all the others are not. and and there's a lot of so the Wi-Fi 7 may be a little bit misleading in the sense that that um
uh you know it's going to deliver all of what Wi-Fi 7 can do which is which should be triband you know the performance but you know if if you get into triband routers like this one like the one you're showing on the screen and others they're they're really they're
they're pretty expensive and I don't know I I I think I think you ought to steal stick with Wi-Fi 6 routers. I >> We're having an impass here. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, sorry, Jim. The reason that you're saying that is is because
the um benefit and price difference of the seventh is isn't worth it. Well, it's it's that the it's that true Wi-Fi 7 routers are are are should be triband uh routers and they're and and
and few of them are and are are not very few of them are just this one. And um there's just they're putting out Wi-Fi 7 routers, you know, and that sounds kind of groovy, you know, because it's Wi-Fi 7 versus six, but then again, they're
not really delivering the kind of the kind of performance that a that a really good high-end Wi-Fi 7 router can deliver. I I I I just I'd be cautious about jumping into Wi-Fi 7s, that's all.
>> Got it. So, so you think that that a wifi 6 trib band is actually better than a Wi-Fi 7 dualband? I can can Wi-Fi 6 routers do >> he's saying one of the advant one of the bump ups when they went to Wi-Fi 7 is
triband but that um but that not all the Wi-Fi 7s are doing it but what it adds is it adds the the Wi-Fi 6E adds triband but it's adding a six gigahertz band and
that's really short distance and so I think >> very short distance yeah >> so It's not going to make much of a difference for most people. >> Um, if you're if you're down in on the other side of the house, that 6 gigahertz is going to perform not not as well as five or 2.4. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I think I think that is accurate that we don't need triband and this is a you know a residential application. Um, we need the strong signal, not the fastest. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Wi-Fi 7 offers a few other advantages. So, wider wider channels I'm reading here. >> Yeah, it's more energy efficient as well. Points signals. >> Yeah. Saves saves it saves energy on
your phone as well, on your device as well. Um because it makes um uh >> it does more steering. >> Yeah. Yeah, it does more steering. Yeah. Yeah. Hard to hard to understand why that would be uh good for your device. But I know it powers it down and it does
it does traffic management in a way that that saves it turning on and off as much stuff like that. I I can't remember what the detail was on saving your your iPhone battery um working as hard but it does apparently.
>> Okay. It had something. No, >> you know, if the prices are similar and we get a a seven that that looks that is a good brand and good quality and all that, why not for for Gail's marketing point of view, right?
Even if it's only marginally better than the six, it still is a seven and that that's going to market better with people. >> Yeah. And I have not I have not heard anything about a Wi-Fi 7 um kind of like
being the new technology that ends up being worse than the old technology because it's not tested. >> No, I don't think that's the case. >> I don't I don't think we're dealing with that issue here. >> It's been out long enough that it's it's
yeah that it's um it's past the first, you know, problem stage. Yeah, I'm reading a review here that says, "While the six gigahertz band is a lot faster than five, it works best when your smartphone, tablet, or laptop are about 15 feet from your router."
>> So, >> okay. >> Same room then, >> right? And and again, if somebody's needs that sort of uh speed for their it won't matter for a phone, but if they need that speed for a computer and they're going to be 15 feet away, they should
just run a hard line a wire, right? >> Yeah. >> That that's crazy. >> Yeah. Um does anybody know anything about about Wi-Fi calling besides the point that Graham made about the energy efficiency? And the reason I'm asking is
because um that seems to be the most commonly connected device and so many people use that to do calling kind of exclusively these days. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, we use it a lot. >> Yeah. >> Um I don't know that there's anything
special about it. My main issue and and we can try to look in the minutia of the reviews is that sometimes when I'm walking around the house um a Wi-Fi call will get dropped and >> yeah that experience I have that
experience as well and it's less now but early on um we had a lot of people who were just crazy with Wi-Fi calling especially with iPhones. It just it didn't it didn't work. And I think since then a lot of people have actually changed their routers. Um
>> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um who who just could not like kind of could not get it to work and just experience kept dropping calls and dropping calls. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So if we can get any intel that says this router versus that router is better for not dropping calls, then that
should be a point in that ladder's favor. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know. I think every each new generation has got better at handling um you know >> the handoff and priv privileging things that had to be privileged so they didn't
drop out you know in between >> breathing or right and it's also going to be a function it's also going to be a function of the phone if you're using a really old phone it's probably not going to handle it as >> there is that as well yeah >> but that's a very very hard um spec so to speak to
>> yeah to confess you know, it's a very subjective kind of a thing and I I don't know and and that's where, you know, it comes down to um you know, finding a good place to test them and
>> which is why I I asked my neighbors just two doors up because I don't have any use for Wi-Fi calling, but there are four people in this household all with iPhones walking around all over the place. And I figured I I figure if if I
could switch off a couple of routers and see which one they seem to like the best, I I I' I'd learned something in that way, you know, because I'm just because that would be a good test situation. If you if you had a complicated household with lots of people on iPhones, but
>> you've got the perfect focus group there, J. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Well, I've been thinking about it. >> Good. >> Good. Well, um, all right. Um, well,
I know you're not completely sold, Jim, but I I feel pretty strongly that I think we should go with w a Wi-Fi 7 model, one one of those um, and choose a matrix of of these Wi-Fi 7s and and put them through their paces and and test
them. Um, you know, the other part of this is that we can afford it. we can actually afford to to get like fairly nice routers um from between the grant and our depreciation fund. >> Um that
um yeah, we don't have to get the the bargain basement. Yeah, I wish I w I wish I knew I mean I I've voiced this one before, but I'm nervous about TP Link for not only um the bad service
history that I've had with them personally, but also um that article that uh that you who was it who sent me? Oh, no. It was it was um you know the article PC >> you know PC Mag you know had a had a had
a had a piece on on on TP Link and you know which I sent to you Gail >> and I I that makes me nervous about TP Link. >> Yeah. But my my takeaway on that article though and I'm I'm agnostic about kind of like what brand we get as long as it
is major brand um was that TPLink is taking a lot of heat for being um vulnerable but they all are that it's not it it it's not a unique problem uh to to that particular manufacturer. It's
just >> they're the ones that >> um are getting the the bad. They come from chi they come from China. And uh yeah, it uh and and and the good thing in that is that the federal government from the first admin from the first
Trump administration um because they were Chinese and because they've sold well and because they they compete very uh you know they compete so well um they've been under investigation by um by various levels of the federal government and they really haven't found
anything that is that is damning. Um um the biggest one was uh was pointed out that uh that when people didn't change their initial passwords that they got hacked that way. But that's like you say
G that's a problem for all of uh um for any uh router that uh you know the the ones they send out with admin as the password then um you know there's a vulnerability. But anyhow, I I
don't think that TPLink uh I think TPLink the fact that um that they haven't really found anything with all of the the um the smarts and the capacity that the federal government has. Um you know, I know I know someone in military uh um cyber security. I
mean, they they look at these things if if uh if there any suspicion at all and um and yeah, nothing's showed up in all of these years. So, >> well, there is still the matter of the service. Um, I I wish we could get
reliable information on the service history on some of these units, but I think that's going to be very hard to find. >> Yeah. Yeah. I would I would I would say nearly nearly impossible. >> Um, yeah.
>> Um, all right. So, next step is um I'm going to put together a proposal of of which which ones to buy. Um I'm going to kind of lean towards the green ones on
the on on the spreadsheet, but I'm going to take another look at all of them and make sure that we're getting the correct not the correct, but the the most likely model that we would buy. So, like for example, this Netgear, I'm thinking, well, I should really look at the RS150,
the next model up, and and see see what um price that is and what advantages it gives over the RS90. Um, >> yeah. >> Yeah. Stay away from the I I've talked to Kent about this. The RS90 only has
two internal antennas, and so its ability to steer is apparently compromised. So, I I would stay away from the RS90. He he was the one who dug, you know, found that one out. So I >> Oh, nice. Okay. Sorry, I I missed that if you sent it to me about the the no internal. So I'll I'll make a note here
that >> Yeah. >> Not enough aerials. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. You sort of four, right? They don't do three, do they, Jim? You go two to four. Is that true?
>> I don't know. I um I swear some of these thing, you know, the more antennas on them are are merely decorative. Sort of like in the in the 1920s they sold radio sets to people and they just put a lot of tubes in them, you know, that didn't do anything. They would just
spare tubes. >> It looks like the tri it looks like the triband net gear is at least a couple hundred dollars. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Honestly, you know, I've done I've done out the math on this. We Anything around
$200 is is fine. >> Um >> Yeah. Because because here's the thing. I'm thinking I'm thinking that that only 500 people are going to want the upgrade. A lot of people are going to be like, I'm fine with what I want. I don't
want to mess with my network. I don't like everything's working. >> That's it. And so I would be surprised if we had 500 takers. I'm thinking it's going to be more like 350 of of like half of our users are
going to want to upgrade. >> And so 200 time 500 is 100,000. And we have almost 300 grand in our depreciation fund, not even counting the grant funds. >> Yep. Huh. So,
>> and we know that the electronics in the heart is built to to be to withstand, you know, explosions and wouldn't cost all that much to replace. Anyhow, you know, 100,000 bucks in the in the hut if everything burned. So, well, you know,
>> yeah, I mean, we're we we have this pretty large depreciation fund thinking that we would basically have to rebuild the hut. Not rebuild it, but like replace all the electronics all at once. And that's just not the case. Um >> yeah, so >> yeah,
>> this is this is kind of the only this is the only thing that we have to, you know, to to upgrade. Um that the only thing that this money is going to be used for. >> Yeah. In another what 40 years >> somebody is going to have to rebuild our
network and put up new fiber. Maybe. >> Um yeah, probably more than 40 years. Um and >> but all of us are going to be long gone by then. May I don't know I might I might still be hanging on but probably not. >> Yeah. >> And it is good self- selecting. Those
people who don't think they need a new router probably don't need a new router. >> So you know might as well might as well you know the envir I like the environmental thing of of only replacing um you know those that people want them. Um, so
>> we do have to decide what we do with somebody who doesn't take one and two years later says, "Now I want one." >> Yeah. >> Because we may not >> we may not >> we may not be in a position to offer it then. I don't know. >> We probably we can keep a reserve just
for those people. >> Yeah. Um Yeah, I think we should we should stock up on on them and Yeah. um you know and and we're gonna we are we we'll run into the same problem that we ran in with the links where they stop making them
>> and kind of like by default we have to upgrade people. Um so >> but when they stop making them they make something better that's more cost effective. So you know even that's not a problem really. >> Yeah. >> So I just sent a a link in the chat.
>> Oh nice. You can get a you can get a two pack of a Wi-Fi 7 that looks much nicer than than all the ones we've been looking at. It, you know, fits in the room better. a two pack for 199 or 200 bucks. >> But and that's and that's list price. So
we may be able to do better by by uh >> anyway just just something to think about cuz cuz you know the problem a lot of us have is >> brick chimneys that block the the signal and that sort of thing and the mesh is
is supposed to help that. Um, so you know, people might be a lot happier if they had a separate access point in addition to their main router. I know I'm doing that in my house right now. >> Yeah. >> Netgear Orbee, huh?
>> Yeah. And it just looks cool, too. >> It does look cool. Uh, I think the days of where you had, as you were pointing out, the ones with the eight antennas that look like, you know, something out of sci-fi, >> porcupines,
>> as somebody was somebody was mentioning a few minutes ago, they don't necessarily work any better. And >> well, and also it's something else that can break too, you know. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's right. That's right. >> Yeah. Your toddler your toddler will be brutal to antennas. So,
>> yeah. So, the high-end units that we've been testing, the um the what do you call it? It's the um drawing a blank on the name right now. Um they've got all internal antennas and they're high-end routers, right? >> The um >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And they're working just fine in my in
my uh my testing. >> So, anyway, we can think about that, too. Aesthetics. >> Okay. Um, I'm going to I'm going to put this on the list and and dig in a little bit more and just see if we can um maybe maybe even get one of these for for testing. Um, yeah. And
>> get a two pack. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But if if we get a whole bunch of routers, it's going to be difficult to compare them all. Wouldn't you think? Um, >> it's a little subjective. Yeah. But it's
what it is. It is going to be subjective. Yes. >> Yeah. And I, you know, this whole team has talked about routers so much over the last seven years and >> No. >> Yes, we have. And >> I know I know. I'm kidding.
>> I just like, you know, I think that we could have analysis paralysis by trying. We're gonna we're gonna we're going to get the best router for everybody. >> And you know, you're absolutely right. The best choice. And I think that that's the wrong way to go about thinking
thinking about this. We're trying Okay, I'm just going to say it. Let's try to get a router that doesn't suck, right? Like just just like a solid router that's made by a major manufacturer that has, you know, good solid reviews and
that and that and that is easy to install and and looks nice, people are happy with it, right? Yeah, >> I think as long as we we meet that criteria trying to like oh the best one that's like this much faster or just a little bit or or whatever
>> I we can make ourselves crazy and also we're on a shot clock, >> right? We kind we kind of have to make this decision as hard as it is. >> Yeah. >> Within the next two months in order to do all these other ancillary things with this roll out in time
>> um for for for the grant. So, so let's So, we're we're going to approach this as like good enough something that doesn't suck and and that's that's that's going to work. >> I mean, that Yeah, they're all going to be pretty good. I mean, it's Yeah,
>> but we won't add it to our letter ahead. Shoots, brunette doesn't suck. We We don't suck. >> No, we're not going to do that. >> No. You know, another thing I want to I want to do a little dive into is um what's um you know, what's Verizon and
Comcast giving like like >> yeah, >> who's like what what are they deploying these days? Um I think that could be really informative because I I know that they don't make their own, right? They're buying their routers from >> Sure. Some manufacturers.
>> Some of them have some of them have a modem router combination. Um, >> but that's all. >> Yeah, they don't need Okay. >> No, we don't need that. The modem was for the >> I know. I know. We don't We don't need it. But but but that was that used to be
Right. Right. Right. >> That used to be what they did, you know. >> Because some of their houses still have coax. Yes, that's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, they were >> They still do. They still do that. >> Yeah. They were built they were built for their cable coax. um you know it needed a modem and and they put it into
the a little bit like um uh if we combined a router with an you know I mean we don't do that but that's the equivalent of what some of the carriers do and or used to do. I don't know. >> So we we could look but u but I don't
think it'll be relevant to us. >> Yeah. My father-in-law in in LA has a and they have fiber to the home. Um, and they gave him an ERO router which is a little more expensive than what we're looking at. >> I looked at that one. It It priced it priced out though. It was too much.
>> Yeah, I know. I know. I understand that. Frontier Frontier can probably negotiate a really big um discount, right? Um >> Yeah. >> Anyway, that's fine. I'm just throwing that that out there as as what sort of higher end is out there.
>> Yeah. >> Excellent. >> All right, guys. Um, so I'll be in touch. Um, uh, I'll do it before Thanksgiving of like here's the ones I I um I propose to buy. So, the next step
for you guys is just to like look at the list and basically say, you know, you know, go for it. If there you think I'm missing anything or you really wanted to take a look at at one of them, just say the word, um, we have the budget to buy however many of these that we want
without ourselves. Okay. >> Yep. >> Sure. >> Very good. Yeah. >> All right. Um, anything else today? >> Nope. >> All right. Sounds good. Um, well, I won't talk to you live, so I
hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Thank you for uh being such wonderful committee members and showing up. And um I hope you have a great day with your family and friends. >> Thanks. You thank you. Bye. All right.
Bye, everyone. Good night. Bye. Good night. Bye. Bye.