Hey, Stephen. >> Hi, Frank. How are you? >> Very good. Very good. trying to tell you how to change my >> Anyway, >> so I was walking out front, you know, of
our house along the uh exposed lake bottom the other day and I found an iPhone. >> No. >> Yeah. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't close to the water's edge. was actually quite close to uh you know our property.
Um and um so I brought it inside and um took the cover off and you know it was a little damp, not saturated, but the charging port had, you know, bits of tiny little stones or sand pieces in
there. So I cleaned it out and um I plugged it into my charger. Um, it's an older phone. It's not the new one with the C charger. It's the previous >> Oh, yeah. The one I have. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I still have that charger for my iPad. So, I plugged it in and the um
the Apple Insignia came up. So, I think it's okay. And I posted uh that I had found a phone on Neighbor Next Door for uh I did it just for Wyola West because there were more people in Wyola West that I didn't do it for the whole
community. Anyway, um I didn't hear from anybody, so I took it up to the uh police department. >> Ah, that's a fun thing to find, though. >> Yeah, I was like, you know, I looked at it and I'm like, wait a minute, my
phone's in my pocket. You're worried about it, too? Oh, knock on wood. I haven't haven't lost a phone in a while. I used to lose phones all the time when I had my old flip phones and they you'd plug them into the uh cigarette lighter
and I' I'd leave them in the house and I'd leave them in the house and in the car and they break in to get them back when they were to see. Uh >> well, a couple years ago we were
traveling um from um Toronto to Hudson, New York on the train and um you know all of a sudden well people are showing up. Talk to you about this another time. >> Oh, okay. Hello all. Uh
>> hello. >> We have a quorum. Anna said she's going to be 15 minutes late. >> Yeah. So, we're going to start this meeting at 5:31. We have Stephen Dus, Phil Parker, Jeff Quackenbush, and Frank
McInn. Uh, did everyone have a chance to review those minutes? And I did change Titan Bomb. Um, >> Tyen Bond.
>> Tyen Bomb. whatever. Titan bomb. Yeah, Italian bomb. It's very interesting. Um, specifically with your name, Stephen, it'll do the first one correct and then all the ones after that it does Vn and 1L. I don't know why it just is the
weirdest thing. AI. That's AI for you. Um, so, um, yeah. And the Titan bomb and all that. Tai and bomb. Not Tit Thai and bomb. T A G H
and bomb. So >> that's just me. >> Yeah. Oh, it's Tai and Bond. >> Tai and Bond. Yes. Sounds a little SNM, but that's okay. The Bond is a a last name. Do you know?
>> I think both of them are last names. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, did anyone have any questions on the meeting minutes? >> No, I my only, um, thought was, you
know, how towards the end it talks about sort of like what what we are each uh, gonna >> right >> do between that meeting and the next. >> It'd be great if they could be sent out
earlier. >> Yeah. because it's like, you know, I saw that and I said, "Oh, okay. I did do those things." But, >> okay, hold on a sec. >> So, what I normally do so I don't lose these is I quickly copy them. And I copy
two different versions. That's why sometimes you see two different versions because it some some look better than others. Maybe what I'll do is just copy and paste that last thing and make sure it's grammatically correct. >> Great. >> Yeah, I'll go send out uh
next steps. >> Fantastic. Okay. Okay. Do I have a motion to accept the minutes of January 14th, February 4th, and March 18th?
I make a motion to accept all of those meeting minutes. >> I'll second that >> and roll call vote please. >> Dallas I bush I >> marker I man I thank you very much.
Okay Shootsberry school updates which has been so much fun to work with. Uh uh I'm not I I might have Jeff you might have known some of this but I'm gonna probably repeat myself. Sorry if I'm
repeating myself. Um I met with the insurance company people and the insurance uh Gregory the L the license whatever SC LSP whatever. um he came up with a whole list of things to do
um and passed that on to Haley, talked to me at the time and and on to Haley and I. Um there's he thinks there's still a little leak there uh to fix that. And then also he would like to see the tank
sealed because it's a two-piece bolt and there's no sealant or there might be a sealant in between the concrete but there's no sealant on the outside of the concrete and he thinks that will help for anything future. That's that's the vault thing. They found some more
>> the vault of the tank or the vault of the pump. >> Vault of the pump. That's they call the pump vault. Okay. It's a two-piece thing. Um, I guess the history of it if you look inside or some of the pictures I might have shown you is at one point it
they were getting water in there and I talked to an old principal and the old head custodian and I don't know which year it was but uh Gem Rod came and did a $30,000 fix years ago on that thing and actually they added another four
feet and made it a big dome so the water wasn't around that thing. So, I think it was probably flush at one point. So, if you look into the vault uh opening, you'll see there's a square with galvanized steel on it about 2 feet
and then some other stuff. You can see where the old opening was and then the seal uh the you know the extension there on after for you know for all it's worth I think that's where all the leaks coming from now that I'm talking out loud
cuz they did they didn't do it they just put a vault on top of it and then did some weird really weird things. I'm trying to figure out where the water's coming from into the vault. But anyway, uh, so when you put the vault together, Gregory was inside the vault and he noticed that there were
water stains right up to the seam but never above. Uh, so either that's where the water was going out or that's where the water was coming in. So he suggests sealing that. Um,
>> he's sealing the outside. >> No. Yeah, he's sealing the inside of the vault where the two seams meet. And it's usually it's like at a groove concrete on it like that. You know, where the two two seams meet. He just wants us to, you know, put a I said a urethane corking. It says something like that so it seals
it completely. >> Um, so that's what he recommended. Um, the other thing they had a problem with is residual oil downstream and it you basically I took a long walk with them and
we had a lot of rain. whatever leaves caught it. If you disturb the leaves, you can still smell the fuel. >> Um, and other than that, that's, you know, you know, the basics of it. Um, there's some, uh, soil that's still
contaminated. So, the school, uh, if anyone saw any of the pictures, the school is a little frustrated because there's all these 55gallon drums hanging around and they'd like them removed. Um the bottom line is some things have
to be tested. I guess it's like evidence. So can't move it till everything's finalized. Uh we have we have up to 60 days to submit a report to the D and see what see what they say backwards and
then Western Environmental can come. They're going to remove more soil because they did find I I they dug up. It was interesting. They dug up and you could see the oil that they missed. It was just, you know, up against the uh curbing and stuff like that. So, they they gave us some stuff to clean. The
insurance company gave us some stuff to clean up. Um but they don't know how they're handling that those drums and how much more they have to take out. So, it might be another six drums and then they have to have D sign off. So, that's
where we are kind of with that >> question. >> Yes. So, you talked about sealing the joint on the inside, but you started by talking about sealing the tank or the vault on the outside. >> Well, no. I I I meant to say something different about that. Um, I'm thinking
out loud. I got to figure out we don't know where the water's coming in, and that's could be one area, but I haven't been into the vault, and I didn't want to go in where the fuel was in there because it was horrendous, and I have a hard time with smells. And um but I want to go look at the vault again
and take more pictures because it might be where they did the addition on top of or it might be coming in from the seal. So Lenny and I talked at one of the meetings and Lenny thinks it's the seal on the uh uh the top cover. It's a a
plastic cover and it's got a very thin plastic seal all around it, not a rubberized seal. And you can see drip marks. And um I don't know if I can bring it up. Let me see if I can bring this up real quick.
>> That could be condensation. >> It could be condensation, but uh yeah, it's not going to show it. Okay. Um yeah, hold on a second.
Uh okay. So bring this over here. Make it bigger and go back here and share. Okay. Can everyone see that? Yes.
>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. So, what I'm talking about is that square right here and the old cover. So, this is concrete on the outside and the old it's this galvanized steel is
sitting on or something sitting on top of the old system. And you see the gap to the right right here. There's water in that. >> It was filled with water. >> You also see how it's uh not uh over the it's over the edge, too.
But this was filled with water. And you can see the very thin plastic seal on that. Uh the other thing we noticed uh when Andy Andy is a retired custodian there, he's been around for many years, over 18
years. Um and he they and him and Matt think that at one time one point in the past future Oh, sorry Anna. One time in the past future um
they used a uh an electric drill or whatever to seal those bolts and stripped them all out. So the bolts never really tightened down. So maybe that's the source of the water. We don't know.
So that's what I mean when I say we go I want to check this area. Hi Anna. >> Hi. >> Um we're talking about the school. So >> was talking about oh putting down a rubber membrane. Where's >> he wants to take a rubber membrane. I
can't I don't have a a picture of this. I don't think I have a picture of the uh you see this area over here where the to where the the cover is. He wants to take a rubber membrane over that entire area
>> so that it drips down, >> you know, goes down over this this wood so that no water can jump up. And um and I suggested leaving the end where the snow is open and not you know um seal it so in case water does get
underneath there it doesn't back up into it so it can drain out. So I haven't checked with him when he was going to try to look for something there but he thought a rubber roof membrane with like pressuret treated 2x4s to you know nail to it and in keeping it there. So that's
what Lenny was thinking on that. So that's where we are with that. Um then I just get uh where am I? Okay.
Okay. Uh stop share there. Um then uh yes, two days ago um Haley and I talked with Matt from Tai Bond Bond um who is in the office taking care of all this and he reiterated what this the
um what we just talked about what the insurance company said what they need to do going forward. fix the leak and and do that. I told him there's for my point and
I really appreciate your all's import um for one uh Royal Steam couldn't find the replacement parts for that motor and just to catch everyone up uh there's two motors in this vault.
uh one new and one old. And uh they don't think the old one's worked in a long time, which is interesting because it's the backup. And we have replaced the new motor uh three times. >> Is a motor a pump or is a motor separate
from a pump? >> The motor is there's two things in there. I think this is the I don't know the answer to that. I think it's a it's one of those, but but there's I think it's the motor that does
the pump. >> It's a pump motor. >> It's a pump mo. Thank you. >> Pump motor. >> But anyway, so you're looking in the vault and I can bring that picture up again. You've all seen it. is that's the old motor and the newer motor looks brand new to the right, but it's it's
out of view. What's interesting for me, I always will bring this up, is that they've replaced that new motor three times in the last two years because of flooding, but they haven't done anything with the old motor and that's where the leak on the seals happened.
So, uh, they want that replaced, but, uh, Royal Steam could not find it's not it's so old it's they can't get parts for it, and they're going to look into replacing it. So, my concern is,
um, what I brought up with Matt is the the other thing the insurance company wants us to do is update the alarm system. Now, originally, uh, when D was there, it says well monitor. We have four well monitors
at the, uh, at the tank, and it says well monitor on it. And, uh, what I found out from Gregory is it's not a well monitor. It's a part of the alarm system. It's a, you know, a sealed system that has
sensors that will detect oil. So, they can't use that to test the water, to test the groundwater around that. So, the insurance company wants us to replace
the motor and fix the seal, and they'd like us to replace the alarm system, which makes sense in my concern. >> System hasn't worked for a very long time, right? >> Over eight years.
>> Yeah. And I and I don't know what parts haven't worked over eight years. There's nothing down. You It's hard to get answers. Um when I talked to one of the engineers at Tai and Bomb that gave me that big ugly quote for $4,000 $400,000,
I said, "What would the just the alarm cost?" And he says, "A brand new alarm to bring it up to code as I" and that's the word he used. And I I'm sure we'd have to go out to bid to get this thing is about $25,000. So, what I asked Matt at Tai Bomb with
Haley the other day, my concern is we can go ahead and spend $6,000 on a new motor, $25,000 on a new alarm sensor system, but I'd like to have the water tested first. I mean, the ground water
>> question. What is the What's the alarm system going to tell us? Uh, pressure loss, oil outside the tank. >> Pressure loss. Oil. >> How does it test pressure or oil loss outside the tank?
>> It has a sensor in a well that constantly monitors the water, I guess. >> Okay. >> Presumably. Yeah. Fuel goes down as they're using it. So, like that's going to change. So, like how do they know if it's being lost? What? By use or by
leak, >> right? So that's this pressure. >> There's a few things and I got a one other thing I'll tell you about in a minute. Um, so did that. Yeah, I I don't know the logistics. I was just told that was a a sensor that would alarm if there wasn't a leak. So there must be oil must
have a signature on these SE sensors. I I'm not I'm not an engineer or scientist to even know what that is. >> And uh I know Jeff knows all about those things. But uh >> so >> so after talking and they you know they said this is the going forward this is
what we should do. I brought up I said well I'm more comfortable with and I I I think like some feedback from you all is I'm more comfortable for us spending 30 something thousand plus to make sure the groundwater hasn't been contaminated.
>> Well isn't mass D going to make us do that anyways? Well, that's the thing. Right now, we have 60 days to do these proposals. And Matt said at Tai and Bomb that uh they have to do all the reports within 60 days, which is May 11th. Um and then
they might come back and say, "Okay, now we want the groundwater tested." So, I thought I'd be proactive and say, "No, I'd like to have the groundwater tested because I don't want to go through. I don't think the town should go through and spend that type of money fixing something that might not stay." Does
that make sense? >> No. >> So, if we get if we find oil in the ground, the tank's got to go. So, we won't need a new alarm system and we won't need a new pump. >> Makes sense. >> Oh, I see what you're saying now. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that was that was my
thing and that so I asked Matt, I said, "Why don't you go ahead and they can't do it by the 11th, but they can notify D that we are going forward to test." and he thinks four things around the outside would be enough to find. If they
find something, how the how it works is they do four drill holes, test, send it to the lab, do all that stuff. Um, and if they find anything, they go outside the perimeter and test again and test
again and test again to see how much is. So, since I don't know if everyone saw the reh the news in the paper about this, this made the the Greenfield Gazette or whatever it's called. >> Hampshire Gazette. >> Yeah. Hampshire Gazette. Uh and another
one in Greenfield. But, uh all the neighbors are very concerned because it's in the aqua, you know, they it said drinking water. So, one of the things Haley and Matt said that, you know, go around and do a like we do the
uh PAST, go around and take samples of all the immediate people in the area to be a good neighbor and find, you know, and and show them that their water is hopefully safe. Um, since this oil leak and it was a surface oil leak. So, um, so that's
where we are on what to do. So that's what we have to figure out what that is. The biggest disappointment for me was a the same company did the pressure test that did it back in September
and it tested flawlessly except for there's two more inches of water at the bottom of the tank. >> So how does it pressure test okay and get two inches of water? Is the oil company
delivering us water? Is there a leak internally? I don't know. It's a really think and I know in talking with when I found that out from Gregory from the insurance and he told me he looked at the bucket I put up top and he goes,
"Yes, it'd be very hard physics wise for the rain to go down and up and down." >> So he we uh we said the event is okay. um you know with that on there. Um >> so
>> when when the uh previous uh condition occurred where they they had to clean clean the water out of the oil, how many inches of water were in the tank then? >> About the same. >> Wow.
>> So this is less than a year. >> In September. Yeah. So, yeah. And the reason it's a real mystery. The the weird thing is, and I've got to have I I'd like to I don't know how to do stuff. I know Jeff and I talked about we met with the alarm
system. We'll talk about that, the the fire system at town hall. Um, but we the the it's the coordination of things. And I know when I brought the insurance guy to see the boiler room, I
noticed there was a new fuel filter on one of the burners because they had the cat literal underneath it or whatever that stuff is, the speedy dry stuff like that. And it wasn't there uh earlier when I was there. So I assumed and Matt wasn't around when I did this
when I walked around because it was after one to find out exactly when that happened uh and when Jamrod came. Um, but it'd be nice to know these things because the that's if that fuel filter is constantly clogging. The good news is, uh, April 15th, I think they turn the
heat off. So, um, so there's, you know, there's a lot to think about with this tank. And I told Haley, uh, about, you know, the water, I said, "That's another $6,000, and I'd rather find the leak." Uh,
>> so whose decision is it to do the additional drilling, us or the select board? Or do we make a recommendation to the select board? >> I made a recommend. It's Haley. Haley's uh the administrator. So I just said, I'd like you to, you know, do you feel this is necessary? And she thought it it
was. I don't know if it's the select board. It's part of And also the other thing is we think it's encompassed with the insurance because it's part of the you know, we our $10,000 deductibles that this is going to be part of the insurance claim. So, I don't think it's hope hopefully
not going to cost us. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. And if we have to do it, we have to do it. Um >> Well, I think we ought to do it also just to to make sure the neighbors are okay. >> And that's the other thing is if it comes back uh negative, it's a good
allaround thing. And then the neighbors have have had their water tested and then we have no thing. And it gives us the the time to properly replace that tank, you know, and get, you know, figure out what to do
in the next year or so. >> The test wells uh that are going to check, you said the groundwater, >> how deep are they? Do you know? >> I don't. They go down until they hit water and
then they I don't know how much they pump out and then they take all these samples. That's the other reason why the soil hasn't um been taken off because they've been doing samples. So they test this the soil.
They signature the oil to a certain type and and then they can and then they do more testing. It was it's all above my head. Um but they can tell where it's coming from. you know, the type of oil. That's why
when all this happened, D uh we had to get a hold of Sprag out of Albany who delivered it and they had to give a they had to do a report on how much they've delivered when the last time they were delivered the fuel and they have testing fuel things and they had to get all that from them. So, they were calculating
and how much the usage is and the boiler and all that and they'll calculate that. We took 130 gallons out of the out of the uh vault with two inches of water. So, we took about 39 gallons of oil out.
So, they do all these calculations and if they're missing five or 10 gallons, it's got to be somewhere. So, >> so we recommending them do the drilling and then also put the rubber sheet over
the top for the >> I think that's Yeah, just keep it Yes. And then Haley also after talking with the insurance person uh asked us to go forward and I I sent the letter out. I could have CCD you all is mass
environmental is going to be the only one pumping out of there going forward till we figure out what's going on with that vault and not having the poor Matt the custodian plug the sub pump in and you know do all that because there's
still some residual oil stains down there you know they they mass I was there they you know they took the pipe and they went all around and it was just you know it was shiny is what was left but they got down to the concrete.
So she she felt comfortable and the insurance company feels comfortable that a environmental person does it and they can be responsible and we'll go forward doing that. So
making sure the vault doesn't leak anymore is one aspect and then we just test the well and then go forward with the things. What I will do and I'll keep you all in the loop. I'll put a forget the name of the uh the uh the
alarm, but the uh the guy uh the guy Jeff and I talked to with the other alarm system. I don't know if he knows that type of thing, but I'll get we'll try to figure out and we'll get a couple bids on this alarm system and what what is entailing fixing it. In other words, uh, is it just putting a
new box in and making sure the wires are all hooked up or is it digging up the parking lot and putting new wires down? So, I don't know. >> You know, why did it stop? >> Maybe Bond can bond can give us the name of some
>> Yeah. >> companies. That would be >> Well, that's what I'll call the get his name right now. I'll call the guy who gave us the ugly quote and uh Ask ask. >> You like that, Anna? Yes, >> I do. I do >> because you get ugly quotes all the
time. >> That's my job. Dream crusher. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So, I'll get I'll I'll I'll initiate that and see, you know, get a couple of companies to, you know, initiate that and come look at that and then we'll at least satisfy the insurance company.
Uh many years ago, somebody emailed us to after we sent them a proposal and said, "Everything looks great except price. Please revise." And that was the entirety of the email. And we could send that to them. I've never been able to send that back
to somebody. So try that. >> Turns out they're college student backed into their garage, so they were not excited about the repair process. Oh. >> Oh, poor kid. Uh,
>> so any question? >> Yes. >> Um, so at this point there's this mystery uh leak, I'm going to say, of water getting into the tank.
And that would seem to be in my mind the most important question to get an answer to because that's going to continue to play havoc with the
entire system and um so I would not see you know putting in you know redoing the alarm system
um at you know until that can be figured out and if it can't be figured out I mean maybe the thing to do is to say okay we have to do a new tank and then and then it's either a new underground tank or an above ground tank and then I say to myself okay well an above ground
tank probably is not going to be as large um but if we're also entertaining the idea of trying to go uh away from oil, you know, and uh move to say uh
either a to a heat pump system, whether it's um whether it's um I'm drawing a blank on the buried system, ground source, geothermal. >> Yeah, geothermal or you know the um just
the regular I'll say the regular high efficiency heat pumps that are now available. And I don't know if people saw there was a piece that came out about in Maine where they um have I guess explored
uh geothermal and some of these larger applications but are actually going with just you know heat pumps uh because they've become so energy efficient. Um, and when you consider the cost of the
ground source, uh, you know, I mean, there's there's obviously a savings, but if you continue to use the boiler when it's really cold out, um, that actually becomes pretty efficient
if you have the two together. So, I'm just throwing all that out there. But I think getting back to the water in the tank, I think that's the key to uh deciding how to go forward, finding out
>> if that where that's coming from if possible. And if it can't be figured out, I think um you know, we need to come up make other suggestions. >> I agree with you, Stephen. Um, I don't know what everyone else's thought is on
that. Um, would you please could you find that uh article and email it to the group and we're going to get Michael Dier a copy of it because >> Okay, I'll see if I can find that. So, I'm not clear on something.
If water gets into the pit, can it then get into the tank? >> I don't think it should because it's not leaking. So I don't you know >> the the pump pit. >> Yeah, I know. I I don't I don't think it
should, but that you know I I don't think it could get into the tank. >> Okay. >> From the fit from the physics of it. >> Okay. >> The only I we didn't test the water that they found out there. You know, if everything
pressure tests and that's including the outside hole, you know, that's a problem. You know, how is the water getting into a sealed compartment? >> Mhm. >> Right. It was Houdini with the uh the shackles. And I agree we that Stephen, that's that's
the key thing. Where's the water coming from? Yeah, it just seems to be a literally a money pit at this point and it seems like we're just going to have to keep spending and spending and spending to maintain it and fix it and fix the things we fixed over and over again.
Maybe it's time to look at a clean slate, >> right? >> A great idea, Phil. just knowing how slow everything moves. Like if we we or whoever decides this decides now, is there a reasonable time
to get this done before next heating season, which seems like it should be a yes, but we all know how slow municipalities move. >> Um and talking come up with what is the what is we want to do? I mean, are we talking a buff
down tank? Well, we Yeah, that's that's the you know the crystal ball you know is you know which direction to go in. Maybe if we want to go for the energy non uh
carbon fuelbased things in the future do you do something temporary like take an 18-wheel truck and plug it into the side of the the school for a year? Um, >> if you go that way, I mean, it does sound like the above ground tank is the
solution then, but it wouldn't be as big a tank. >> And then you pay a little more because of the um and I've never delivery. >> I I know a friend of mine has a diesel truck and um, you know, went up a$150 in
a month a gallon. >> And I was in New York City the other day after Passover. I went to a friend's house for Passover and I filled my car up for $4.75 in flushing. >> Well, did you hear the price of gas in
New Zealand? >> No. >> $13.50 a gallon. >> Yo, >> yep. My daughter's complaining and complaining. >> Get an electric car. Get an electric
car. They uh in the NPR on the way I I taught at uh Maha High School today, a ceramics course and on the way in they said Tesla all the showrooms went empty this month because everyone because everyone didn't
want to spend whatever $13 a gallon or $4 a gallon or everything else. It was the biggest incentive they've ever had for electric. That was interesting >> considering the other >> Yeah. Because the other guy wants us away from electric. He's cancelling everything all all these the stuff. But
um >> I thought that's just off trump. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Oh well. Fire alarm. >> Fire alarm. Okay. Actually, what I want to do is skip the fire alarm for one second and I I put capital planning request because I mentioned at the last
meeting and I because I didn't know what crystal ball is. We didn't put any extra money in for any of the engineering of this till we solidify what we're doing with this. So I I didn't want to get anything from capital planning that we couldn't use or that we weren't going to use or
something like that. And I did that in conjunction with the school department. Nate Long was at the meeting and he you know till we know what we're doing money's tight and they were arguing and they did go to the finance committee
they might do that. I said till we know what's going on and the insurance is taking care of it. I said, "Let's not do anything with capital planning." And talking to Haley, if anything comes up and talking to the emergency management meeting with a select board that was there, if anything comes up
between now and the fall, um, where we have to come up with six figures or whatever it is, there'll be a special town meeting warrant on it. So, it'll be one of those things. That's how we're going to pay for it. We we all don't have to reach in our pockets and take the tens and 20s out. We'll just
they'll have a special town warrant. So, that's the capital planning thing on that. And then, okay, the the fire alarm system was the next one. And then we're going to look at the energy audits. So, I'm going to let turn the thing over to Jeff because he coordinated that and asked all the right questions.
>> Oh, thanks. >> Yeah. So, we met with um Citizen Security is the company that presently monitors the some of the buildings in town for fire and security.
So, we I contacted them and um we met with a representative of their firm and they could do a wireless I didn't even know there was such a thing, fire alarm system in the town hall
where we wouldn't need to run conduits. Um it's a wireless system between each detector and the brain box that goes someplace inside the building which then
um if there's an alarm. Uh it's also an addressable system so the fire department would know when they entered the building where is the fire or where is the smoke. But um the system also doesn't use the
telephone to to contact the monitoring company. It uses the internet. So um they're going to get us a proposal. We, you know, we warned them about the $10,000 threshold where if it costs more than $10,000, we
have to go solicit three proposals, which means we would if we have to go that route, we would probably need to hire somebody smarter than me to put together some bid some bid documents that would
clearly define what it is we're looking for. So, everybody's bidding on the same thing. Um, I have not yet received a the price back from that company.
I also contacted a couple of days ago a company called Encore and they're located in Holio and they also do fire alarm system installations. Um, but I haven't heard back from them
yet. So once I do, I'll see if they're interested in meeting out at the town hall and reviewing what we're looking for. >> So that's where we are. >> And I was impressed with the system, too, because Lenny, the fire chief, would have an app on his phone. He'd
know exactly where things were. if he walked into the uh conference room upstairs where the alarm was going off and realized it was a bad battery, he could disconnect that that unit and take it offline until it's fixed and then
citizens would would come down and replace it because that's what it's part of the package. So, it was a it was a they do all the maintenance. >> Yeah. They also said they would tear out the existing system we had for the elevator and replace it with this new
system so that they the systems could communicate and work function more correctly. >> So we're waiting on a proposal. >> And one thing we learned and I'd like to bring up Jeff is uh the highway department's fire alarm system.
>> Oh yeah. So, I I forget how long he says it's been out, but they've been sending >> six or eight years. >> Six or eight years, which is mindbogg mindboggling to me. Um, and they've been sending stuff to Tim, Steve, and now Dave about doing
something with this because it's been out so long. And I said, going forward, all this should go to the town administrator, not us, so that we can all look at this and make a decision. And then I was talking to someone else. I said, "Well, geez, I wonder if your insurance company's real
comfortable with that because all those trucks in there and you have no alarm system. It could burn for hours before someone got it. And are we insured?" And I was very and and that's what someone asked me. Are we insured um with a non-working? And they we know it's a
non- workinging. So I have to talk to Haley again and see what has to be done with that. Um because I I'm not comfortable not having an fire alarm system in the building and I don't think the chief was either. Um
>> no, he wasn't. >> No. >> So I know I he might have probably already talked to Haley because I wanted him to talk to Haley. It's just like it it has to be addressed. So we might be getting something on that. And I don't know why it wasn't addressed for the last seven, eight years. Maybe it's the
cost. I assume it because out of whose budget it would it come >> right. >> The highway guy was probably think why do I want to take it out of my budget to fix this thing >> and when I can buy salt for the same amount for the next year. So, but it
still should have been addressed as a thing. And I think that comes back to the the whole thing where it's nice we're all talking and the departments are all talking again and it should be I think it was that's a good sign. That's another good sign I mentioned to Haley is that you need a facilities
manager part-time or full-time for this this town because our buildings have become that way. Um, and that might be a good push to get something like that. So, okay,
on to the everyone have a chance to read uh these energy proposals uh that have been forwarded to you. Um, Stephen, I know you've been very involved. >> I've looked at them, but I I don't
really understand them that well. >> We've got an expert here that understands them. Uh, uh, but Jeff will help us with that. Um, some of the things we talked about, Jeff, and I talked about, Stephen, is that like the insulation for the MN
Spear building >> wouldn't interfere with what it's going to become. You know, it would be done in the basement, and be done in the attic, and it wouldn't interfere. Is this something we want to go forward and do because it's going, you know, we can get grant money now. I don't know if we'll get grant money in the future, but, you
know, these are the things I'd like to talk about. Um, the last thing I sent you, um, I got a phone call yesterday on the way home is the June grants are due Friday.
So, if we want to do heat pumps at M and Spear, we have to apply for them by Friday. And I didn't say anything. I'm having a meeting. I'll mention it tonight, but I don't think that's a decision. I don't know if we can make a decision right now, but I'd like to put
that out to the the committee, too. Um, >> I'm a little confused on something then. I thought you signed the paperwork and submitted it, right? >> So, so that they can get reimbursed for what they've done. Yes. all that was.
>> But they haven't made they being the government or the the state, >> the Commonwealth hasn't made a decision on which of those um proposals they would be willing even to fund. Right.
>> I think um >> that's the way I interpret it. So until until we hear back from them, they may say we're not doing any of these Yeah, I think we need Yeah, we need to find And will you say that how you worded
that again, please? Till the government or is the government or is it uh uh I'm dating myself. Niagara Mohawk was the electric company I paid for when I was in college many years ago, 50 years ago. But um
>> whoever whoever's funding this program >> and the National Grid I thought was funding this program. >> No, I thought Commonwealth was funding this program. National Grid was was a participant. >> Okay. >> So I don't know that for sure.
But I thought they had to make the decision on which ones, right, >> they would be even interested in then because they pick up a small part of the payment, we pick up a large part of the payment. >> Yep.
>> Or are we kind of waiting on them? >> I I don't know the answer to that. It's this has been very confusing to me because Michael Diier has been involved because of the energy ecat committee and he's
going for the grant side. So I've been overwhelmed on his emails. >> Yeah. And I noticed the same like every 10 seconds. >> Yes. So and then you you bring them up and it's a chain. That's why you know when I said that meeting there were so
many back and forth. No one gave came I never saw a definitive answer that it was a Tuesday meeting that you and I missed. Um but it was like there were too many back and forths and um >> but that's a separate issue. >> That's a separate issue. Yeah.
>> But but but he Yeah. But is he's also working with Lindsay on all these grant proposals for ground source and heat pumps and stuff like that. Um >> so do you think Haley would know the answer to our my question? I can ask. Yes, she might know the
answer. Um, yeah, I can reach out tomorrow morning. It's 4 o'clock. What has the government approved on all these things rather than say we want to do these? And it it
in other words, you we don't want to apply for these and say, okay, you know, we're not going to give you the 6,000. only gave you two and that wouldn't make sense, you know, something like that. We want to see what they're going to give us first. >> Well, they kind of told us roughly what they're going to give us.
>> Mhm. >> If if we make it to round two, I guess, >> right? >> But I'm wondering, you know, you the mechanical ones, the heat pump ones came in after you signed
>> the documents in the back. not sign the heat pump ones. >> I don't think so yet. And that was just the new one coming in for the U M Spear building. That was the newest thing. As you can see, this is what they gave us in the last email I got
>> right >> day before yesterday. Um, >> remember that young lady said that even though you signed those forms, it doesn't mean that the town is going to go forward or anybody's going to go forward with them, >> right?
>> Which made me think that we're waiting on their decision. They being the Commonwealth or the utility or whoever it is, the money people. >> The money people. I like that.
kind of like Anna the money lady cuz a lot of these I mean the insulation just for MN spear is like a doable thing out of our budget you know u I wouldn't do the LEDs Steve until you you all figured what you're
doing with that building and and the heat pump but uh um you know the insulation is doable out of our budget. Um, >> so to have a question. So, you know, there's the total project cost, then
there's the incentive, and then the net cost. Now, are these net cost things that we're hoping to be able to attach to a grant and uh to pay for these or are
>> what' you say? Can you make that a little bit bigger so we can go read it? >> Oh, >> that's a second. >> Can you read that? >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Okay.
>> Because I think the incentive is the only part the utility or whoever these people the money people are going to give us, >> right? I think that's it. the bigger number we pay for. >> So where where uh where does the the
grants that um you're trying to attach to come into play? >> That's like to pay for the heat pump. See the TBD on that that TBD is determined what the in other we're going to apply for a heat pump for the MN spear building.
And um let me find that. Hold on a second. building heat pump. This one I got to find the grant. >> What do you mean the grant? >> Well, this is She said a grant was due March 8th. Um, this is the sign, by the
way. This is what she wanted signed for that. But there's a grant to pay for the heat pump on Friday. And this came really fast because I missed the meeting and Michael was involved and I haven't actually had a chance to go over all of
Michael's emails to look at that. So, um, >> okay. So the so the grant that you're talking about would pay the outstanding larger amount. The incentive is
something that is just an incentive that either national grid or someone else takes care of. Am I correct? >> That's what I believe. I think that's what it is. Hold on a second. Uh
things are on my computer. And this is a grant that Michael Dier has been involved in. >> Well, this is the uh >> because his grant I think he's in he's doing a different grant, >> right? This has to do with the technical
uh the technical grants. Um here we are. Share. This is the one uh that Haley might know more about this because I you go over this and it has three four people I
don't know. Um it's the technical I think it's going too fast personally but it's the tech there's a technical grant you can get up to $150,000. So, we apply for $5,000 or $150,000 as a grant to look at
everything. Um, and I think that's what she was talking about. And I don't think >> No. Okay. I think I the $150,000 grant I believe that Michael's been working on
is for you can get a grant to hire designers to do a study for the elementary school for the ground source >> right >> pump system and it has nothing to do with those other >> okay
>> I think they're two separate issues two separate items >> so I believe going back to the Spear Library, whatever those numbers were, the the money people would pay a certain amount
of money and then the town would pay a certain amount of money and the systems would be installed, >> right? So, I think the town would have to come up with that their chunk of the
money. I don't think there's a grant for that, but that's what Haley could maybe tell us. >> Yeah, I'd have to ask Haley the specific because she was in on the meeting and reading this and you can all read it, too. I'll forward it to everyone, but it's a P is renewable twice a year, June
and December, and that's this Friday. And um the submit dates, you know, by the end of May 2026. >> Yeah, I think that's for the Michael Deris Elementary School. Okay, then let me go back here because he's getting
just for design services, >> right? That's a commitment letter for the the heat pumps and something else. I'll call Nate. I'm Yeah, I'm not comfortable with this. I'll have to call Nate in the morning because it all these got intermixed these emails.
>> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, the TA grant and uh yeah, I'll call Haley in the morning and get more clarification. Um, and then if need be, we can do another
meeting in a couple weeks just if we think that we can get grants to pay for the whole thing and apply or if we want to just do some a couple pick and choose like insulating if that's the the money's there now uh to insulate the MN spear building
because it wouldn't affect what the building becomes. Um, what do you all think about that? something like that, you know. Um, >> well, I have a question before before your question. So, I mean that the
insulation is a uh in the scheme of things is a small dollar amount, but just about everything else or especially like heat pumps for the MN spear. I mean, that's a large large chunk of money. So, in my mind, wouldn't we want
to get two other or wouldn't we be required to get two other bids? Um, >> I mean, how do we know this company um is providing the the best price for the work? Um,
you know, and >> I don't think we have to get other other prices because it's this I'm going to say national grid. um I think is like running this program and these are contractors at national grid
hires. So I think that's how you get around the the needing three prices. But we also have no clue on the quality of the company. I guess we would go back national grid and say how can you how
come you hired Mo and Curly, >> right? And and then I would also question um how did they come up with the say the design that they came up with or you know I mean they're I think in their proposal when I looked at it
they're eliminating the existing uh mini split um you know that's that's there which is relatively new. I mean why why can't that be part of the project? I mean, I I don't know, you know, the
answer to that, but so I just I just feel that if we looked at these closely, we might have a lot of questions that we'd want to have answers to um before, you know, pursuing some of these things.
>> Yeah. I think the reason they wouldn't want to use the existing system there is because they're trying to reduce their energy load. So they want the most the newest most most efficient heat pump. So I think that's that's
their their logic. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying I think that's the way they're approaching life. >> Yeah. Can I can I um can I get some questions in here? Um >> Yep. So, I'm looking at the column that says estimated net cost
for let's say the town hall, the LEDs 15,000, the HP, the heat pumps 36,000. Then I look to the far right, the estimated savings, we got $4,000 for the LED and $1,000 for the heat pump. And
I'm thinking, yeah, the cost savings for the LED, yeah, it's going to have a fouryear or less payback, but the heat pump is going to take 36 years to pay it back. >> So, am I reading this right? >> I That's how I read it, Phil. I'd have
to ask. To me, it's doesn't make sense to do the heat pump for a 36-year payback, but the LED seems like a no-brainer, >> right? And uh you look at all these other projects on the same criteria, there's
only a couple on this list that I would say really make sense from a costbenefit standpoint. And there's a couple of them that we just don't make sense at all. >> Like the two heat pumps don't make sense at all. a 20-year payback on the Spear
Library and a 36-year payback on the town hall. I mean, why that, you know, doesn't make sense to have a a payback that long. And in my previous life as a as a controller and VP in finance at
Mount Snow and a couple other places, uh you know, we would be looking for a a three-year payback, fiveyear at the most for a capital investment of this type. And we wouldn't we if it was over that you know we'd say you know what it's
it's not it's it's not worth it you know and you know maybe techn is going to improve over in a couple years and and it will be worth it but um right now it's the cost isn't worth the benefit. Good point. >> And I'd ask that question because I I
find it really odd is the minus 2950 29 I mean, you know, 2569 and the uh you know, the negative electrical thing. >> Yeah. >> Well, I didn't understand that either why that's a negative. >> I don't understand the positive above if
that's a plus 137 and a plus 17 versus the negative. So, maybe just clarifying that would help. >> I'm not sure. I guess I don't know where my line in the sand would be of when you were saying you were looking for like a three or a fiveyear payback in your
prior job, but I I'd say like at the very least we don't want the payback period to be longer than the lifespan of the unit. Like we I wouldn't expect that heat pump to last 26 years, you know, or whatever. >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um yeah, I mean every paybacks are different. Every
every business or any entity would take a different approach to it. But um that was that was just my experience in the corporate world was 3 to 5 years was typical. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that >> you know these things don't last that long >> and you got to buy a new one 10 years down the road, five years down the road,
whatever. >> Yeah. I would also throw out that um I'm hesitant to do anything too drastic at the Spear Library until the town knows what's going to happen to the building because I'm worried that we would do something that would need to be
>> removed, reinstalled, moved, changed, eliminated, and it might just be like a total waste of money. >> I agree. I think I have a possible answer for the negative electrical savings because you see there's the same
thing uh at MN Spear. Um you know currently the town hall is using an oil fired system and uh Spear is primarily using the propane floor furnace. So you're going to when you switch to the heat pumps you're going to start using a
lot more electricity >> Y >> than is currently being used. So that's Oh, then they have the column with the oil savings on the second, >> right? Right. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> So then we really just want to be focused on that far the estimated cost
savings at the far right the net. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I totally agree with Anna. I don't uh being on the uh reuse committee um you know in the current fiscal state that we're in um there's a good chance
that while we're not going to make a decision we'll be making recommendations but the recommendation is probably going to just leave it as is right now it can be used as a meeting space um and that will not be very frequent um so
I don't think there's real value in putting any money into the building. >> And there's no water in that building. So, till they figure that out, it's not like we need to insulate it more >> to protect pipes and stuff like that, >> right?
>> And I did go into the MN Spear building >> uh earlier this week >> and just wanted to see how the closet was doing and the heat was turned all the way down but not off. So, that closet doesn't even need to, you know, they the walk-in closet with a off the entrance way. I was wondering
why it was on. So, and I think with the heat can go off also. I don't know. The heat was on it 60 and I didn't want to turn it off because I don't know who's using the building, but I don't think the town needs to spend any more money on gas out there. Um, >> well, I think you ought to keep the building heated. I don't think you need
to heat it 60 degrees, >> right? Yeah, I think I'd turn it down to 50. >> That's where I hear that. >> Yeah, >> read it. >> I think I tried to, but it's a programmable thing. So, I don't know if I I said turn it down to 50 and hold,
but I don't know if it it did because I don't I have to look up the directions on that thing. But I agree with that. Just I wanted to you keep at it that um so the system doesn't go bad. Okay. And speaking of monies, um Brendon
and I looked, um we have $70,000 in our slush fund and $9,000 has been spent. And I'm going to have Gail uh the accountant give me a breakdown on that because it
Stephen wasn't $9,000 yet. I just want to make sure that I want to make sure a lot of this school stuff is I have to figure that out. Who's paying for the school stuff? Um, I'd have to I'd have to look. Um, >> yeah, >> you could ask Brendan because he's
gotten all the receipts. And I did go and um >> check again at the fire department and the highway department and everything has been completed. >> Oh, good. Okay. So, I'll get some more answers from
Haley on all these grant things. I agree with Phil that I know Jeff likes fixing things for 30 years, but we shouldn't have to pay for it for 30 years before before we break even.
Uh >> yeah, >> as Anna said, we'd we'd have to replace the heat pump before before we pay it's paid back. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I So, you know, there's other ways to look at it, too. If we're just
reducing like the environmental footprint, you know, if there's like other reasons beyond financial, it just seems like from the town perspective, financial should matter a lot. Well, when they see how much a new tank is going to cost the elementary school,
I'm sure they're going to be more focused on costs. >> Fair. Yeah, totally. >> I don't know if anyone's been to any finance committee meetings. I've been listening because ever since this tank problem and uh they're squeezing everything and
our taxes are going up. you'll see the town hall eight average on $5 to $800, whatever they said. Uh, but they're talking about all these things that are happening in budget year 27. Um, and they use the word override,
which scared me. So, uh, the two and a half% override. Uh, they try not to do that. So, >> I think Ammerst just did that. >> Yeah. >> Yep. And uh so they tried not to do that this
year. Um but that's interesting because you know the the libraries kicked in there's some expenses that we haven't had for a while and now that you know the bottom line is we the money is for the library was a big factor. you know, the 20-year bond and
and stuff like that. And our, um, treasure, uh, Brendan's brother, um, has great ideas about that because you have to balance things and you might want to pay off and all this other stuff to save lots of money. So, it was interesting to
hear all those things. But the thing that stuck in the my head here was that override. We don't want to do we don't want overrides. Try to balance the budget. Um,
okay. Does anyone have any unanticipated business? I think we covered a lot tonight. I really appreciate it. I'll try to get you all some answers in the next few days. And um, having said that, do we have a
motion? I move we close the meeting. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Roll call vote, please. >> Cook eye. >> Deli.
>> Welcome. Bush. >> I parker. >> I. Thank you all very much. >> Thank you, Frank. Okay. Thank you. Bye. >> Bye.