Hi Michael. >> How are you? >> Fine. And d Andy. How about yourself? >> I'm doing okay. A little tired at the moment, but overall >> it's been quite a week in many ways. >> That is true.
>> On how many different levels? on blah blah blah. Yeah. >> Right. And the world is still here, so that's a good thing. >> All things change. >> Yeah. >> Impermanence is the name of the game. >> Yeah. Rolling with the punches.
>> No kidding. Yeah. >> So, what' you guys do with the on the website to update things? So, we'd been troubled the last several weeks with really, really, really slow performance.
And Tom Huggenike, who's our our he's a Drupal professional Drupal >> website manager, he he manages all the USAIT UMass websites for instance. >> Oh, that's so cool. So, we got him on board to do the updates and upgrades
quarterly, but also while we're at it, please look at our website because nothing's changed since it was established how many years ago >> and clearly technology has changed. And he said, "Yeah." And so, he's investigated it and looked into it and,
you know, has laid out basically a highway of things to bring up to date, make connections that are now broken, blah blah blah. But among the things that he looked he can look into was what was causing the slow uploads. And it
turns out the bots were attacking. I mean this is part of a global AI infestation I must say and the the B the crawlers get in there and snarl up everything. In one month's
time, want to guess how many million bots from Facebook alone we had on our website? >> Oh my god. Really? That's shocking. >> 6.43 million. I mean, it's >> that's insane.
>> So, what he was doing for a while was locating the IPS and blocking that, but it's like whack-a-ole because they blah blah. So what he has discovered in the meantime is at our our host is Pantheon
and they have a beta free antibbot CDN con content distribution network >> that you can install. And so he looked into it, found the directions how to do
it, blah blah blah blah blah, and installed it, deployed it on our website uh two days ago. It's made a huge difference just already in terms of behavior. I don't know if you've been on the website the last week or so. And
>> I just went on this afternoon a little bit, but I didn't upload anything. >> And it it's snappy behavior now. I mean, performance is back to really what it should be. >> Wow. >> He's he's going to be a godsend. It's just >> is he is he a resident? >> He lives in Northampton or Florence.
>> So local. >> I mean how did you snag him? >> Need Jake. And when Penny was at UMass, Tom was the the man he that she dealt with in terms of her department website
management. >> And so she recommended him. And so we had Fred and I had an interview with him. uh what do you do? What do we need? Is there a match? You know, >> yeah. >> And he took us on and
>> that's so cool. >> Initial Drupal upgrade last fall and has followed up with that since then and and laid out and Fred and I laid out, you know, what we see as hurdles in the current website setup. And he said
he'd go look into it and see what was there. And so, you know, it's >> it was set up okay, but you know, things have changed and so connections were broken, links were broken, references to old systems don't work anymore. So, bring that system up to date. So, he's
been doing all that. So, >> that's amazing. Congratulations. >> Good job. Hi, Nate. >> Hello. So, >> Republican, is that your shirt? >> Okay.
>> Yes. He gets a commission for that to >> show it politicking on our website during our meeting. Is that what you're saying? >> Or should I zip up my uh >> No, I think it's okay. I was just kidding. But >> okay, >> talking about eyeballs like again
>> it's not sectarian. It's just >> it's good journalism. >> Yep. >> Yeah. You know, depending on what you think. So, so I know Greg isn't joining us, but Gail, are you >> I'm ready. I'm ready to take minutes. Yeah.
>> Oh, great. Cool. Okay. A call is to order at 703. >> Are we being recorded? >> We are being recorded. >> Has all our conversation previews been recorded? >> Yes. You just did you just did your official web update. >> Yeah. >> So,
anyone who comes for energy stuff will learn about the website. So, it's it's a bonus. >> Huh? >> No public. >> No public. We never went public. I you know, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> It's Someone should find this
interesting. Um I was I you know, as an aside, I went to um a Conway Planning Board meeting on Tuesday. That's where Jeff Lacy is. And they've been meeting in person like since the I don't know the last two years. It's so interesting.
It's like how different town towns have different cultures now of how you do it. Um I mean they're not even hybrid. Like they have their room doesn't even have hybrid setup >> really. >> Yeah. >> Which means they have no recordings
available, >> right? Well, that's what made you think about it. It's like, you know, there's sort of a I don't know, a laziness like, you know, you can just sort of go at your leisure to sort of go watch a meeting. Um, you don't have you don't have to do it in
real time. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, once you stop watching Netflix, you can switch to, you know, >> but it makes more accessible to more people. >> Oh, yeah. I I it definitely works. >> You're not You're not arguing against it. Yeah. Okay. >> No, I I was just intrigued. It was just
really different. >> Um it was like the old days >> um in a room with five people and no there was one public and that was it and there's no real record. >> Yeah. >> So >> so no public comment I would assume. Um
so should we jump into updates? >> Yeah sure. Um, so I think Nate, you're up first just about the monthly update from Colonial, which we all saw, but there's more texture, >> right? Um, so you know, it looks like
we're going to get that, uh, I think it's a quarterly update, >> okay, >> ultimately. So that first quarterly report uh it's it doesn't have a full quarter's worth of data. So it's just the December month, but I think it'll be
another few months before we get another one. So uh I did write up um the kind of the topline takeaway uh from my perspective anyway uh and sent that to Haley. I don't know if it if it was
in the last week's Was it there? >> It was. Oh yeah, the the Friday live five. Yeah, >> great. Great. Um because I skimmed it, but I then I got distracted. So, um uh yeah, I mean it'd be good to get
feedback from from you all here. Um there are different ways to present that information and I guess uh the intent was to include a link to the spreadsheet itself. Um which you know is a comprehensive snapshot of the data that
they're providing us. Um but I I was inclined to highlight the money saved >> um part of it. Um, of course people have the option to pay more, but um, uh, I think people like to see uh, what the town is is saving ultimately and I think
that number is going to get bigger and bigger. So, um, you know, if we have that once a quarter, just dropping that into the Friday five, which I really like as a way of communicating things about the town, just kind of >> the cadence of of end of the week summary. Um, so I can I'm happy to keep
kind of packaging that and you know relaying that to Haley so that it can be included in the the Friday five. >> Why do you think the savings are going to increase? >> Well, just because we'll get that full quarter of data. So, um it'll instead of
just the one month, you'll have >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> Worth the city. So, the number will be >> dollar value. Okay. >> Yeah. Um >> I I think it's great. I mean, I think just the act of getting in front of people and like the two I agree with you
about the money save. Two things for me that seem like it's worth sharing is how much money is getting saved by doing this and then reminding how many people how reminding people of how many residents or households are participating because you know there's
some people who are not and it's just sort of like to show that is I think significant because we have high participation rate I mean some >> really high yeah >> I mean it's sort of interesting because you know you had to opt out So it sort
of reduces the number of people who are not participating but I guess in other towns there's more active opt outing uh or opting out I would assume if if we have a high opt-in percentage I mean somehow you have to
so but I think it was great. I just like putting it out there great advertisement. Um, >> yeah. >> Who knows? >> And it wouldn't be a bad idea to continue handing that on to Haley for her Fridays. >> Yeah, I think that's what you're saying. Every quarter if you want to do it, I
think it'd be great. >> Yep. >> I'm happy to to take that on. Yeah. >> Okay, cool. That's terrific. Um, so I I I don't know if you guys saw Greg's very short update, but the storm water committee is going nowhere fast. Yeah. >> Which is just unfortunate. Um,
>> it is. I'm not sure. Anyway, I don't know why. Um, so I can give you an update on school lighting. Um, >> oh, >> it's also not going quickly. So, we had I had a we had a meeting scheduled for
two weeks ago and Haley came on for about five minutes. She was actually homesick, but she was calling in and she had to go to a FinCom meeting. So, it was actually just me and Devon. Um, and I I don't know. I wrote it up. I think I CCD you guys, but I I
can't remember. Um, but you know, it was a good conversation with him because, you know, there's always this deferring to the police in terms of security when it comes to lighting. So, he he he was really great. I mean, he said >> him, >> Devin, the police. Okay.
>> Yeah. um you know he was saying that he's not so worried about what's going on in the parking lot you know he's more worried about what's going on with the building you know so like having lighting on the building but um and I asked about the driveway and I pointed
out that you know this right now I mean the I don't the principal didn't quite understand the technology that's in place because she she was saying that she thought it was motion detection but it's not it's light detection So when it gets dark, the lights go on and then they're on all night when it's
dark. So that's sort of the issue. Um, and he said if they're motion detection, he's totally good with that because, you know, we can do it on the driveway, we can do in the parking lot, we can do it around the building, but that that would make sense. And from a security perspective, what he was saying was if
it's motion detection, it's actually better because if someone shows up and the lights go on, it it sends a message that there's something active where if the lights are always on, it's sort of like the lights are always on. Who's paying attention to this thing? >> Yeah. >> Um,
>> so that was good. Um, since I just actually emailed Brendan maybe half an hour ago because we're trying to get another meeting where other people would show up like the principal school committee um Frank
you know and and Eric Stalker who's you know brought this to us I don't know a year plus ago at this point um I think everyone's okay with the idea the two outstanding questions as far as I could tell which Devon raised is who pays you know so
there's the installation but there's also like I you know you might know Nate or or Gail but like who pay who's pay the electric bills right now. Um, you know, cuz someone in these conversations said it was on like on the polls and if it was on the polls maybe the school
isn't paying. Like we don't even know that basic of like who's paying the bills. >> I have no idea. >> Yeah, >> those are those would be town polls like the ones in the parking lot.
>> Yeah. My guess is, and I need to check this with uh who would know, Gail probably there probably uh street lighting on the school budget. >> One one could assume maybe
>> someone said that because there were >> polls we might be getting that like >> national government. Yeah, that would be good. >> Okay. >> Um so it's going slow, but I I don't think there's any opposition. It's just a matter of like, you know, especially in this >> so what yeah
>> fiscal situation like how do when do we do it? How do we pay for it? But um Diane Diane Jacabe is definitely on it because she sent another photo, you know, of like what it's like at night. >> It's scary. I mean, she literally said it's been this way for 40 years.
>> So like since the 90s or 30 years. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. So like >> they've had light detection. >> Yeah. She's because they've been there for 40 years and she's been living and they think since the 90s when the last renovation happened um is when it
happened. So like the fact >> Okay. >> Yeah. So that's crawling along but unlike the storm water committee we're actually we had a small meeting of some people. So more to come. Um,
and then so the big news was climate leader. You guys all saw that. That was very cool. Um, >> yeah. >> And uh, >> yeah. >> Yeah. I, you know, first I didn't, you know, they said you're not going to hear till April. I think it's because Joe Cford inquired on our behalf that maybe
they sped it along a little bit. That always helps making a senator happy. Um, so but that, you know, it gives us more lead time for the grant stuff, which is great. Um, >> yeah. and uh and we were in the paper. So, I don't know if you guys read that
article, it was it was it was relatively good. Um, you know, I mean, the thing that I just I I emailed you you all, but you know, I was saying we have like different projects and we have to get more information before we figure out what
the projects are. And like we're in the pre-planning stage >> and according to her, we were ready to go and we knew how much geothermal was going to cost. I was like, "No." Fortunately got mad at me, but I like I didn't want to commit. You know, someone could read and say, "What are we doing?
I haven't heard about this yet." So, >> wait for someone to get mad at you. >> That's true. About any range of things. I'm used to that. I do you guys have anything you want to say about climate leader in terms of the designation part?
>> When was when was the actual date of our being designated? uh somewhere that your emails. >> Yeah, it was like >> mid-Marchch about three weeks ago I think. >> Um
>> so so what I found out actually was >> when I was on this Furkog call last week with the other energy committees which is pretty cool. You guys should come if you're interested. It was really I learned a bunch. Um so Warwick was the other town that got designated in
Western Mass with us. Um, I think there was like five or six towns. Brooklyn was one. Um, I maybe I don't know if East Tampa already is, but there's only there's a total of 35 communities that have the designation. So, a tenth of the state at
this point. So, we still have a window to be competitive where there's not that many competitors. Um, so, but it's, you know, it's definitely growing. Um, but we're not at a, you know, we're not going to get pushed out of contention
quite yet. Um, but it it is good to know. Um, and the only I think there's only three in Franken County. So, it's Warwick, US, and Ashefield. So, we're doing good. So, I I'll shift I tell you about the solar project with Colonial. Is that
okay? Shifting gears. >> Yeah. >> Are we still in updates or >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like the solar after the solo project is other if you have anything else. Okay. Um, >> so Mark and I have a follow-up meeting
with Mass Dot next week, which is cool. So, you know, we met with them, I don't know, about a month ago, and he and I both got homework assignments. One was I had to find out about hering. Um, which after I sent the email, it seemed like
they knew some of it, but it was sort of like if we found a spot with them, what's the who's the permitting body? Um, and so I emailed my contacts at the OE in the sighting and permitting and is
that who wrote back? Yeah, I think yeah, they wrote back um with what they knew and then Masdat responded. So I I think Mass actually has can permit some of it, you know, because like if it's just say it's in the on the Mass Pike, but it runs
through Palmer. The question was, would you have to get permitting um approval from the town of Palmer because it's physically within the bounds of the community or is it because it's controlled by Masot, they as a state agency, they have some special
status, you know, and although I'm up to my eyeballs and clean energy permitting, I didn't know that particular answer. So, >> what did it have to do with with the area of uh what do you call it? The area beside the highway itself. the the right ofway. >> The rightway would it have something to
do with placement of the >> not so much I mean because the idea would be that we would you know Mark would find a developer who would build something new. So if you're going to do a development then you have to get all the permitting make sure you know wetlands approvals and all that stuff.
Um the rightway was interesting to hear about because the feds get involved, you know, because this is an interstate highway ultimately. So the feds get involved if there's anything approaching impact with
traffic. So you know like if it was in the median for example or in the breakdown line lane, but we're not going to necessarily do that. But you know if it's in a parking area where you know the trucks usually are or something like that. um or if it's just land that they
own because it's next to the highway. Um so that was interesting. And then Mark had to look at some financing stuff which I sort of followed but it was a little complex. But what was cool is I emailed them last week to say hey we really want to keep this rolling. Um and
they responded. So we have a meeting next week which is cool. Um I mean I think we are definitely pushing them. Like my sense is they were doing this assessment. They expected it to be six months and my pitch was if you have any ideas for lowhanging fruit, let's start
talking about it now. Like we don't have to wait for the assessment to be done. We're happy to start talking to you now. Um and Mark loves the idea because what Mark basically told Masdot was I'll find as many towns as you know for
demand depending on the size of the supply that if you can give us a big site or multiple sites I'll you know he could just fill it. So, he's really thrilled. Um, and and he I think he's I mean, one, it's more new kinds of business for him, but also it's a paradigm shift, you know, and so he's
really psyched about that. So, we shall see. I mean, we could be pushing a model, which would be neat. Um, so I'll keep as this evolves and gets, you know, if it gets more real, which would be really cool. Um because I you know I think it's a great model if
we can show that municipalities can use CCA to develop solar like someone should have thought this a while ago but you know hey takes a shoot to show up so >> so Nate you got an other update?
Um yeah, I wanted to just like report out on um a couple of phone calls that I had joined. Um uh Michael, you'll remember that someone from uh the Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnership,
NEEP, um was organizing a Franklin County Energy Code Collective. >> Of course I do. Uh so I I ended up um well what happened is you know there this is like a nonprof the convening organization is a nonprofit that is
trying to accelerate energy efficiency uh projects and um they were interested in organizing a call with communities in Franklin County and have a couple of
speakers who could address like how they successfully got the optin specialized stretch code approved at town meeting, right? U so Weightley was on the call. Greenfield um
representatives were were also on that call. Um and you know Greenfield in particular is has brought this the opt-in specialized stretch code to town meeting and had it voted down. So they were particularly interested in um you
know steps that we had taken our experience in outreach with outreach um and uh I don't know about constituency building but at least like um you know promoting the advantages and addressing questions that people had about the
optin specialized stretch code. So um uh that was great. Um, you know, I relayed our experience as best I could and um, uh, yeah, there's there was a second call where uh, we really focused on uh,
you know, Greenfield in particular because they're they've got a vote coming up and they are right now preparing kind of a I guess a an editorial or a letter to the local
paper. Um, and uh, yeah, it's it's a good group and hopefully >> Was was Laura on it? Wadowski, she's a city counselor. >> Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah. >> Okay. >> She she's running for Natalie Blazy to
be state rep, but I know her from >> previous work and she was she was saying that that that's a challenge in in Greenfield. >> It is. Yeah. Not every uh town is is excited about it. So I think particular builders in particular as a as a kind of
a group were um a little negative on the idea but >> so that was that last year's town meeting that it failed >> I believe so whether it was a special town meeting or I think it was just a regularly scheduled town meeting that it was voted down but I did
>> did read some accounts of the uh the vote. Um so that went south. So >> it is it is interesting like at the Franken County Energy Committee last week they asked I mean Ashefield presented about um
getting the designation and then they asked if you know Shootsbury Warwick had anything we wanted to share and then we had a conversation. Um, it seems like of all the check boxes you have to do, it's the stretch, you know, optin to stretch code that's the problematic one. Like
that's where the push back is across the board. >> And uh, you know, >> yeah, it's typically complex and, you know, you know, and it speaks directly to like people's houses or their perception of like, hey, does this involve me? Like so that was one of my
main messages was like we were at every opportunity um you know stressing that you know this if this this probably doesn't apply to you like this is just for new construction and you know so on and so forth and I think that that behooved us
to to stress that that point. >> Yeah I think that's true. Yeah. Did you have another update besides that? Um, well, you know, I I have been I I put some stuff together in in an email on my outreach to various like
superintendent that >> H hold that one for a minute. >> I will. Yeah. >> So, what what would you how would you title this update, Nate? >> Oh, sure. Um, it is Nate's participation in the Franklin
County Energy Code Collective calls. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I can email like, you know, the Franklin County Energy Code Collective. >> Okay. Yeah, >> that's
>> I mean yeah >> and that is it that is the no that's accelerating etc etc >> um that is >> I would say >> it's in it's an initiative and I don't know how many collectives they are
sponsoring but the organization is the Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnership >> Northeast Efficiency >> Energy Efficiency Energy >> energy efficiency partnership. Okay. I just want to get
>> neep. It sounds It sounds like a Montipython movie. >> Absolutely. >> Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnership. >> Partnerships. Yeah. >> Okay.
I will deny Monty Python authorship here. >> There you go. God. Okay. >> So, we can dive into the technical assistance grant, which is I think where your updates and my updates come. So,
I'll just preface it by saying um oh, I guess it was two weeks ago, two to three weeks ago. Um it was after our last call, I reached out to Energy Source, which is the consultant,
the consult or the mass consultants that do the audits for all the buildings. um >> like and so they only do commercial level stuff and they mostly work with municipalities. So I reached out to them and I said we're thinking about this stuff. Can we have a meeting to discuss what you know
what next steps would be? And so there was a little confusion because I invited Frank and their energy source put together these documents for the building committee to sign so that
they can get national grid to put an actual estimate of how much the work would cost or whatever the documentation is. So Frank came to the meeting thinking they were going to talk about those things and I came to the meeting thinking we were going to talk about you know prep for a grant. So >> we split the we split the meeting. So he did the first half hour and I did the
second half hour. Um >> but what came out of it was >> I explained that we you know we at that point we hadn't got climate leader designation but we were going to and we were trying to you know get ahead of things. So I wanted to know you know if
they could do audits or assessments you know because we would need some technical and feasibility stuff done. And what they said was they tend to do smaller things, you know, like they'll do the a heat pump or a few heat pumps or some envelope stuff or whatever, but
if it's a big project, definitely geothermal, but if it was like, you know, say PV or something on a building, they worked with two engineering firms that do this stuff all the time for municipalities, and they were they gave us the names. Um, and they said, you know, we're not in competition because
we do the smaller stuff and they do the bigger stuff. So, I actually tomorrow I'm going to reach out um to those. And so, what Frank had a that was that and they're the ones who told me about the technical assistance grant because I was unaware of the technical assistance grant. So, I was
asking these questions assuming that we needed some technical information in order to apply for the $1 million decarbonization grant. And I wasn't sure how we were going to pay for that work. and they said, "Hey, you know, there's a technical assistance grant. If you got
climate leader status, that's up to $150,000." So, they gave me the heads up and then I looked into it. Um Haley and I met this week. Frank was supposed to join us but did not um just to figure out next steps. And so, I
don't I don't know if I did I sent you guys like the template of the of the grant. I can I can sh I can share it with you. I got on on my screen, but it's really for what it is really simple. So, it's a it's a spreadsheet
with with two worksheet tabs. Um, and so the first tab is if you were doing one site, so if we're just doing the school, it asks, you know, what the location is and the address. You need a narrative. You need some documentation, but it's
you don't need to attach any documentation. you just, you know, it's advantageous the more information you have. And then if you if you wanted to do multiple sites, the second tab is like a multi-sight thing, which would be it's going to require a little strategy
to figure out mostly how to communicate it effectively because the and this we can jump into the details, but at least for what I was thinking about when I talked to Haley is we would want to, you know, if we wanted to look at geothermal because if we're getting $150,000, we
should get as much information about all this stuff as we can. So it seemed like the big pathway was looking at geothermal for the school from a technical and financial and feasibility stuff and then if not that look at everything else
which could include air sourcing punch for the school as well as the laundry list of other things for the decarbonization um roadmap that we have. And so, >> yeah, >> it seems like we could we could get $150,000 worth of work and get all that information and then we could sort of
get their recommendation, but we can make a decision. Um, and that would be what we'd go for the 1 million bucks for. Um, so Haley was was okay with that and that's when I I suggested I would call the engineering firms to figure out basically interview them and say, "This is what we're thinking, you know, and
see if there's a match." And then if one of them is a better match than another, whether it's Vibe or what they do, have them come to town just, you know, and then what I found out uh somewhere in the last week
that the the dead the technical assistance grants are reviewed twice a year. Um so the next ver next one round is reviewed in June, which means we have to get it to do by the end of May. And so it can definitely work because it's not
like the application's not extensive. Um, and so my thinking timewise, which I think I sent to you, was like if we get if we submit the grant in June, presumably we'll hear in the summer, early fall, if it's a few months of work,
I it'd be a stretch to say we could apply for the climate leader 1 million in February, but potentially we could. We might have all the data we need. Um, and that would be really cool, but if not, we could do it in August. Um, so it's a little bit of a delay in terms of what I was hoping, but we'd have all our
ducks in a row in terms of information. Um, the other thing I'll just mention, um, just sort of cool. I've been communicating with, so we all know Chris Mason, you know, retired, right? And so the the person who is replacing him is this guy Mark Rubinsky,
who's the assistant director for green communities. Turns out Mark Kinsky goes in Ammeris. So because he was on the he was on the Furco Energy Committee call which is really cool. And so I'm encouraged because one he knows where Shootsbury is. Um and and he's pretty
hands-on like he was talking the woman and the energy committee for Warwick and they you know like they I think they lost their school. This is where I think Netty works. Um maybe but it's a community school. Um, and so before they opened it, they did all this. Um, they
insulated the entire envelope. They had mass safe come in. They put mini splits in all the rooms. And so Mark was saying, "Oh yeah, I remember that attic. I was crawling around in it when you're doing that work." So like it also it's, you know, so he understands small community. We want to sort of like get
into the weeds. So, I think if we do our due diligence and sort of jump through these differentformational hoops, um, I think we got a shot of getting the 1 million if we can figure out what we want to do. Um, so that's that's as much
as I can remember that I know. But mate, you want to talk about you found out because you did a bunch of calling around. >> Yeah. >> But but the 1 million isn't a technical assistance grant. That's the >> No. No. Technical assistance is 150,000, >> right? and somewhere.
>> So when you say get our ducks in a row, apply for that, get the information needed to go for >> correct >> the one mill grant. >> Yeah. >> DOER. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's all do. It's all under it's all managed by green communities and >> Okay.
>> Both technical assistance and the decarbonization are only the climate leader community. So, like that's why I think we still have a window of competitiveness because they have a they have a chunk of money. Um, it is interesting as a
footnote, what Ashefield did, Ashefield applied directly for the $1 million grant and they're building a big photovotayic array on their water treatment plant to pay for the water because they they have
water treatment. So they're paying for the electricity for that with the PV. Um and now they're circling back to get a technical assistance to sort of scope out other projects in town. So it's sort of interesting um how everyone attacks
it. So So there's a track record to watch to look at which is helpful. >> Yeah. I mean Asheville was hugely helped with us in terms of how we um went about our climate leader strategy. Um,
>> you're doing airsource heat pumps, right? >> Sorry. >> You were doing airsource heat pump research. Well, I was I was not exactly doing aerosource heat pump research, but more uh I was I was interested in
the extent to which there are, you know, more than one um ways to solve the problem. And um >> you know that that really uh that really got me got got me thinking because the you know the way you're talking about um
getting um you know an audit of the building um there's the grant part. Uh I I really have been trying to wrap my head around like what the sequencing of the events is. So that's largely what
motivated my outreach to um probably about six or seven um superintendent um because uh there's this organization on undaunted K through 12 uh they do uh
they work on energy efficiency and um you know other climate related uh program improvements in in schools and uh they've got this great page on
uh a bunch of schools that have been invited to submit proposals through um ARP uh grants, right? Specifically for heat pump retrofits of existing infrastructure. Uh so so I wrote all of
the superintendent that have schools with a footprint that's roughly similar to uh to our elementary school. Um just to learn like how do they sequence things like um I think the art bucket of money for heat pump retrofits of schools
opens up again in 2027. It's like every two years. Um, so there's like might open in January and then you find out at like towards the end or you get access to money at the end of 2027. So, you know, I don't know
if that timing works out, but um, putting that aside, uh, I wanted to learn like how they made that that technical decision. Like we've been talking about ground source heat pumps and I I just it felt like more of an assumption than something that was like
we knew to be the best path. Um, so unfortunately like I got connected with um the superintendent of the NATIC school system and I I was put in touch with uh an elementary school uh point
person who has helped shepherd their application for um the heat pump retrofit funds. Um but I I have not been able to get uh any any traction there with that that outreach unfortunately. Like >> I think part of what's happening is that
people are in very different stages very often like towards the beginning of the stage of scoping out um what their heat pump solution is going to be. Um so you know I I sort of I came across this
link to um this organization this firm train technologies uh and they are highlighting their work with schools in Massachusetts doing heat pump retrofits and I was I just thought well this is an
organization that's going to be able to tell me like how they do it. Um >> they're a manufacturer, right? >> They are. Yeah. But they they're a soup to nuts >> firm um in the sense that they are kind
of a one-stop shop, if you will. So uh in the two messages that I forwarded to or that I put together uh for ECAC, I also looped in um other Nate
um on the school committee uh who's the liazison to the buildings um committee. Uh that's it's another aspect of this uh this conversation that's a little tricky because you know we did have that one
meeting where a bunch of people got together with representation across the committees that are you know trying to develop the best solution for the elementary school. But, uh, you know, that's not an ongoing conversation. And
I've been a little bit at a loss to how to, um, you know, advocate or even just relay information other than like putting things in people's inboxes and hoping for the best. Um, but one of the things
that intrigued me, um, because I assumed like even with the technical scoping of the building, um, is that something you put out to bid? Like, I don't know. And then there's a
bidding process and there's contractors and, um, uh, that's like well out of my my wheelhouse. But um I did learn that uh because there are paths that a town
like ours could follow that would be dramatically streamlined from from the perspective of managing that process. Um, and uh, you know, because I don't know if you're familiar with like
federal contracts, but uh, there's the General Services Administration schedule uh, of pre-approved vendors. Um, and there's also Massachusetts state legislation
um that that you can leverage to effectively like pick a firm to, you know, share through through a whole process. So, um, uh, I tried to outline as best I could uh, the
information that I was able to accumulate through really a single phone call. um and and just like serve it up to the group uh as with contact information. But, you know, a question that I have is
like who's leading this effort and how can we um, you know, not step on anyone's toes, but also feel like we're at least able to inform the conversation
because, you know, I'm concerned that we just like go out and pick some firm and like end up in a path dependency. that puts us in a place that's suboptimal both in terms of time and
then money and the solution that we arrive at at the end of the day at the end of the process. So, um, that's where that's that's my brain dump for, you know, without even getting into like the the technical bits, but I felt like I
had a much better idea of how things might be sequenced uh than I did like before. So, >> yeah. Well, I appreciate the research and I I definitely appreciate the looking at like there's multiple ways to
sort of get to a solution. Um because I think that's helpful. You know, the the question about who's leading this. I mean, I've been thinking about that for a few months because it's I you know, in all all my involvement with town, I've I
don't think I've ever seen a really collaborative multi- community process. Um so I was really pleased when we had that meeting in December, just the fact that like we got that to happen. Um, I think where I'm at just
is I feel like we're actually we're nudging the process along. Um, and I reported out to the select board a few weeks ago about Oh, I think it was about climate leader um, just to tell them what we were doing and mentioned
I think I mentioned the lighting project and I can't remember but Eric said you're ECAC you guys should do this you know so like it's not it's not even like what we think it's the perception of you know who's doing what. Um I think you
know for any project related to the school I mean one you have to make sure the school is involved but you know what I got was you know there's concern about who's paying you know so like no one has they have the biggest budget but they also have constant budget strain so they
don't want to like take something on um and then I think from a bandwidth perspective you know it might be different for school committee members but I'd be hardressed to think Ann's going to jump into like construction detail stuff when she's running a school, you know, so like she has to be
in the loop and she has to be on on a board with the solution to some degree, but um and then buildings committee has expertise and is sort of trying to look at the whole big picture. So, you know, the fact that we've been engaging Frank and I think that communication is
regular is like I think that's the if I were to describe it, I would say the primary partnership is ECAC buildings and Haley because Haley's at the center of the hub and we'll loop people in like you know if we have to get capital planning or FinCom or Select Board, you know, um I mean I could reach out to
Fincom and say we need to get you to the table or whatever, but better if she's sort of hurting the cats. Um Gail so she's tried she they have tried to get this group convened twice now with no >> result and Nate you've identified people
who are active and Michael you've identified people who are active and we already have an active relationship with Frank >> right >> so I would suggest that we convene a group of folks we know to be involved so include Nate Longo he's on capital planning by the way as well
So, so that would cover that one. Frank would cover >> He really wants to fix it too. >> Yeah. Good. Okay. For Yeah. For all kinds of re Yeah. >> Yeah. >> With his both with his capital planning and his school cap on. Yeah. >> Yeah. But convene those folks that we
know are interested and active and yes they represent which whatever and parcel out responsibilities or or assignments to each of us and yes somebody from the school the super the
principal should be involved but no she won't be given a technical research assignment. Yeah. Say from the point of view of budget of overview, >> right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's right. It's it's all sort of new in that
regard. Like we haven't done this kind of building stuff before with this kind of coordination and intentionality. Um, I mean, I think if we f I mean, what I'm thinking about right now is like if we can focus on the technical assistance grant and get that applied
for by the end of May, which is relatively short. Um, doing that, it's really Frank and Haley and I representing our respective groups. So like you know I would keep you guys involved and tap you if we needed to but
it's it's not it's not feeling like a heavy lift if we can talk to the engineering people at first. Um but then if we get it you know it's sort of like the whole idea of assessing like what's the right technology and you know I would say the primary site is the
school given you know its both its existing problems and its energy usage. Um and then secondarily what are the other ways to approach it? I mean the other thing that's interesting which is a wild card is well Gail you were there for at the select board
meeting for the M&N spear reuse committee discussion >> and like the ideas are everywhere but what was interesting is coming off of that and then I went to a building this buildings committee where we shared the agenda and what was being pitched as one
of the things was redoing the lights in town hall you know and they were talking about they were specifically saying well the lights in the police space we're going to do X Y and Z and I was thinking we have to make sure like we're not redoing the lights in the police space if all of a sudden in a year or two it's
not the police base anymore you know or downstairs and so I think part of in the technical assistance assessment is exploring as best we can the pathways that includes different uses for the buildings. Oh, the other thing I'll just
say which is really sort of was cool. Um Mark Rubinsky last week when I was sort of talking about, you know, our thinking, Mark Rubinsky said one, a town can amend the decarbonization roadmap because I said based on my read, you can
only apply for the million-doll grant and the technical assistance grant for things that are in your decarbonization roadmap. and he said, "Well, we don't want amendments every week, but you know, if you come up with an amendment, you can submit one." So, what I thought
was encouraging about that is if we actually get some clarity about the reuse stuff. Um, you know, like what really struck me, which I personally like, is when Leslie Bracebridge mentioned the idea of maybe moving the police station down to be colllocated
with the fire department. you know, I don't physically know where that would go because I I told Haley like I can't imagine D is going to be happy with building something over the contaminated part of the parking lot. Um, so like that's a but just say we ended up doing
that like it would be an addition in terms of like oh maybe we're building a new structure or we're doing more insulation and we want to add a heat pump so we could we could amend the decarbonization road map which is nice so that it could meet our needs. Um
so I think I mean tell me if you think this is wrong but I you know I it's makes sense in my brain like if I reach out to the engineering firms say tomorrow and Monday and then you know make contact and then I set up a meeting with Frank
and Haley and I just to interview them to figure out what the best bid is and then we bring them to town whoever wants to be there with them to sort of like we would then have a school you know like when we did the audits Matt from the school was there. I don't think Ann was part of it, but you know,
we walked around. So who and then when we went to the fire department, Wendy was there. Um so if we do the site visits, people can be there to either be resources to hear, but we get enough information to get it, you know, the breadth of options that we want written into the technical assistance grant and
that starts us on the path. So we're not committing to anything so much as just getting the widest funnel of options and information. Um, and I think if we if we can do that in a timely fashion, I think it does line us up for the million-doll application either
February or August, which might given the school grant, you know, like if we went I think the issue with the geothermal is just the cost. Um, and oh, >> we don't know. >> We don't know, right? But it's probably more than a million dollars. So, it's
sort of like if it's more than a million dollars, how do we do the rest? We could either, you know, bond it, >> but we don't know other issues. We don't know rock. We don't know water. We >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. I know. I know. Just objectively speaking, like if that ended up everything else was good, like that would be something we'd have to
grapple with. Um where if we go the other path, whether it's aerosol seed pumps for the school, if we decide to do that, and all the other laundry list of stuff, we we can afford a lot of it under a million dollar grant, you know. Oh, the other thing I'll just say and
this is one other thing Alan. >> Yeah, >> my question is technical so so it could be answered later but when I think about the the air source heat pumps at the school it seems like that would involve marrying it to PV which would probably
be canopies in the parking lot which means you have to do the parking lot like it's sort of a sequence. Um so I don't that's in my brain but I don't know if that's accurate. What do you think you're shaking your head? You think that's right Nate or no? Um
I think that um we're almost certainly going to end up with a form of ground source heat pump. >> Um so schools that are doing airsource heat pump are typically in a scenario
where they have an oil furnace that has like another 15 years of life. >> Oh, okay. So, not that they're trying to replace that with airsource heat pumps, but they're they're putting on airsource heat pumps and then that allows them to
use less oil. Um, but it's not a complete replacement. Um, so yeah, I I I do have questions about like what kind of firms are being invited to
do a walk through and the breadth of their expertise. Um, but um yeah. Yeah. like the the this technical assistance grant like going
into that with um as much information as as we ultimately need. Um yeah, I I'm sure you're vetting them, but I I've not heard anything about the firms. Um >> yeah, I I'll share the names. I haven't
heard it I mean I haven't looked into them at all yet either. Gale. >> So my question to you was what engineering firms are you going to go to and why? And are is there any reason why we'd not go to train? >> Um we could go to train two. I the ones
so the ones that Let's see if I can find it really quickly. It's the two that Crystal at Energy Source who's the Mass Save consultant firm um suggested because they work she works with them. So she
said she they've worked with municipalities a lot. She highly recommends them. Um so in the world of not knowing anything. >> Um it's so their names are >> B2Q that's one of them and the other one is
DMI. Um and what she wrote is um they're the two we regularly see doing two TA studies and I've asked for contacts. Um, so it sounds like they're doing technical assistance studies with municipalities already. Um, >> so they'd be doing the assessment,
>> the same thing that that Train claims they're doing. >> Um, I don't Well, I'm not. It sounds like would Train look at the whole host of decarbonization or is it mostly focused on So, we could ask them too. I mean, I think you're not required in the
technical assistance grant to name your vendor. You know, my s my gut says if you can name it, it shows that you've done a little bit more due diligence. But, um, if you can get me Well, um, you've already talked to them, right,
Nate? Once >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. the the the two me and I I forwarded some additional information fairly like late this afternoon that I expect anyone but if you go through my
two messages two accounts of uh >> what Morgan Paris told me um I think it's all it's all in there like what they would offer um okay in terms of walkthrough feasibility and they would look at your utility bills and um that sort of
>> that's an energy source has already done that like they've they asked Haley for all the utility bills and all that stuff and they did the walkthrough. So, >> well well a walk through I mean this would include like the fork in the road of like what kind of system
like I there's got to be more to it than just looking at your electricity bill. So, um >> yeah, but I would recommend like folding train. Okay. >> Seeing what they can offer and you know
at what juncture and then at what point any obligations would uh would bite bite into >> would these other two engineering firms cost money upfront to make the assessment? >> No. I mean I think >> says outright not.
Well, I wouldn't I mean, if there's $150,000 to do everything, >> I'd rather not do it on the cheap and sort of say, "Well, we can give you this for free, but if you really want to do it, it's going to cost X." >> Oh, I see. Okay. >> So, like we want we want everything we can get out of it.
>> So, applying for the grant would be applying to get somebody to do the assessment to give us the information that we would use. Okay. >> Yeah. All the all this this initial phone call is is to figure out like I could I could write the narrative now
for the grant but it would sort of be weak like it'd be much better to have say either train or the engineering firm say here's the language this is the scope this is our world this is what the you know green communities needs to see or like when you say you wanted
technical assistance this is what you're asking for so it's more the verbiage and more um terms of arts language, you know, about like what what scoping is about. >> Um because I I'm just going to use
regular people's best effort. Um and I think if and then because we don't have to submit documentation, but it's enough >> to say we know what we're asking for and we're we're going to use the state's money to really get everything we need. Got it. >> Um so, but I'll I'll fold in trading.
Let me think about how like just consistency like if it was me and Haley and Frank talking to them, we should talk to Train, but it's also a little weird because you've talked to them. So just figuring out that choreography like should we be or but I I think it's I think it's makes
sense. We can include them. It's no big deal. That's just what >> I mean Morgan um she is like based in Massachusetts um you know regional like this is like her regional space. Um so I
I don't think there's any problem with you know you Frank or or Haley reaching out out to her. I just I guess one of my questions is like what's that $150,000 cover? Is it like does it get you to mechanical drawings? Does it get you to
Yep. Right. So, no one's gonna do Yeah. So, Right. So, that's >> it's the stuff that no one would give you for free because it's like the real detail staff work. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And I mean, and my my thought is what we would come out of that with is all the
doc besides information for us to make a decision. It would be all the background documentation that we need to submit to the state for the larger grant to say we've we've done our homework. Here's all the stuff that we need to see to give us have confidence that you're
gonna give us a million bucks. >> Yeah. >> Um, nice. Yeah. So, I think at the end of that process, you should end up with an investment grade audit that allows you to go to any
>> imple. Yeah. At the end at the end of that. So, >> exactly. And that'll be a whole another discussion, but like that's the whole point. It's like well the thing that we've always wanted we will have in hand. Um >> you know and if we need and if we need
to borrow money you know with the talent's approval we'll have the documentation to make that argument. Um >> so so I thought of one other thing I just wanted to mention and then we can go to internships and then minutes. Um but I wrote this an email but it's worth
saying out loud. So during the Franklin County Energy Committee discussion, we got into um Richard Nath who's on the planning board in Lever. He used to live in Chesbury um
was saying so Gail knows this. I don't know if you do Nate that Lever start got broadband before we did a few years before. Um and they did it before the state did it. So they started MLP and they built it out.
And so and Richard was part of that. And so what they're discussing they want to do is create a second MLP. They don't want to mess with their broadband MLP because that's working fine. MLP that will only work look at energy. And the
reason being is that if you're an MLP, you can have your own power lines and you can hang them on they have Eversource. You can hang them on Eversource poles. And the idea was he was saying we've got lots of people in town who have solar who are sending net
metering back to Eversource >> and what they want to do is if they're an MLP they can get that energy and give people their net metering credits but they can turn around then and use that energy to power the public safety the library the school and ultimately the
town hall because they can do it across town and they can so they're creating >> a micro grid It's more resilient. It's more affordable because if the MLP is going to be powering the school and the library and the public safety, they're not going for profit. They're just
providing the energy for whatever. It's all, you know, within the budget of the town, basically. So, they're just at the beginning steps doing that. But, I thought it was such a cool discussion. And one of the things that I just remember from way back like two years ago when we
were talking about solar was for whatever reason maybe it was talking about connecting to the fire department or the spear but that like we couldn't someone said you couldn't cross Lever road because it's a state road and the
utility has to give you permission but if you're MLP you can because you can go. So I I just got totally inspired by that. So it's like I just wanted to mention it because I think somewhere in this stuff like that's the next chapter.
>> Oh yeah. I I think that form of LLP is the one that would supplant our CCA though, right? That I think that would be >> Oh, >> right. That would be the the step where you're harvesting the
0001 cents per kilowatt hour. Um and and I think that that's the MLP that you're you can't have if you have a CCA. That's how >> right right >> that's how I understood like >> you know remember we had that whole question whether our you know broadband like >> right yeah
>> makes us ineligible so it could be the next step but it would be like yeah it would it'd be exciting maybe we can get the intern >> anyway you were excited about the intern thing
right >> to Yeah. >> Um I mean my experience with interns is um they it can take a lot of work to um create the work for them and I I just
I worry about coming up with 20 hours of of work for that that person. Not that um you know the offer isn't like quite generous and like a really good opportunity. I just I was a little concerned about the fit you
know. Um yeah because I have a little untapped bandwidth you know um >> but uh yeah I don't know if if people feel maxed out such that if they put added another 20% to their own plate
they could get like an additional 10% yield on it on the work of an intern you know what I mean because >> you got to put in work to get product you know something like value out of that that experience.
>> Um, and I benefited from internships, but I I also have like supervised them and they can be a lot of work. That's all. >> Yeah. >> I I got tired thinking about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I've had the same experience. I
mean, to make it worth their their while and your while, you really have to sort of figure out what's a a project that you want to get out of it. make sure that they understand that they're doing it in a timely fashion. It's really investing that guidance. Um, so I mean
my gut is it's a nice offer. I'm glad that people are doing it. I don't think we're, you know, we might be in a place somewhere, but I'm not like dying to do it. >> Okay, good. We're on the same page. >> It's one of those It's easier just to do
it yourself than to try to Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you're right. Generating 20 hours a week is >> And we don't have a dis if you had a discrete project that we knew like, >> oh, this is a wish list thing. >> Y different story. >> We don't have that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Cool. Okay. So, wow, we're doing really good on time and we're just chatting away. So, I think we only have minutes if there's and setting another date. >> Topics not anticipated by the chair. >> I've got nothing. I've mentioned them all. So, and uh anyone who want to move
to approve the minutes of March whatever date it was >> 17th. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I will move to approve the minutes. >> I will second that. >> Michael will second. >> Any discussion?
>> Were there any additions or changes sent? >> I had I had two typos. Say one. Okay. Um let me just get So, let me hold on. Let me pull it up. >> Okay. Uh >> okay.
>> So under the climate leader community section the second paragraph um it says SCES envelope. It's just missing the last E. It's the second to last sentence of that. >> And then the last paragraph of that
section, decarbonization is just uh it's spelled there's a swapping of letters. >> Oh yeah. So there it is. Okay. Got it. The I gets moved over one. >> Yeah. >> Other than that it was just Andy.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So any other discussion? Yep. >> Hearing none. Gail, how do you vote? >> Yes. I >> Nate. >> I. >> And I am an I. Okay. Our minutes are approved.
>> Let me get to >> So, let's see. >> Uh, uh, Michael seconded. Michael Greg was not here, so scratch that. >> Okay. Next meeting date. So that would
be May. Um town meetings on the 9th. Um uh oh, you know, we could uh what's today's what's today? Today's the 9th.
Um I mean we could do the 12th if you want to do the 12th. Um, probably 12 works better for me, but we could do the 26, which is later. We're not running up against anything important, but can you
guys do the 12th? >> It just, >> what did you say, Nate? >> Yes, I can do the 12th. >> Yep. Okay. >> Okay. So, it's planned on May 12th. Same time, same bat channel.
>> Um, cool. This was a good discussion. I think we're continuing to >> feel good. >> Yeah, this is this is great and uh >> Yeah, thank you both. This is we're we're a good productive committee. >> Yep.
>> Feels good. >> Fantastic. Yeah. >> Yeah. Anyone want to move to adjourn? >> I will move to adjourn the meeting. >> I would like to second. >> I will second. >> Okay. Assuming no discussion. Nate, how
do you vote? Hi. >> Yeah. >> Hi. >> And I am an I. Delightful spending the evening with you all. We are adjourned. See you. >> Uh do you know if these meetings are being the recordings are being put
online anymore or is that long gone? >> Um I think they I you know I'm not sure anymore because of the town clerk thing. >> Yeah. Can I save it to your Can you save it to your >> They're just They They're still They're successfully getting put elsewhere. It's
just a matter of transferring it from the Zoom account onto the YouTube thing. >> And you can't save it to your computer and send it to me. >> No, because I don't want to mess with it again. It was so hard to get doing it correct. I'm scared. >> But I But I think Brendan's doing it.
>> I' I've seen them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay, cool. >> The most recent ones from 11 hours ago. Seven hours ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right up to date. >> Yep. >> Okay.
>> Okie dokie. See you guys. >> Take care. One.