hi everyone Um the mayor and Scott are not going to make it tonight So I see Janice and Bob are here So I think I'm going to call the meeting to order
then So it's uh April 10th 2025 7 p.m and I'm calling this meeting of the Shoots Prairie Conservation Commission to order This meeting is being recorded Um welcome
everybody Yeah both Mayor and Scott um couldn't make it tonight but we still have a quorum because there's three of us Yay Hope everybody's doing well Um the only comments I have are let's
see uh again for the members of the public We're not going to be doing the um emergency for the Beaver Dam removal That kind of fell apart at the last minute We're actually going to have
another meeting about it um next week with with Highway and the new town manager and board of health and stuff to see how to move forward with that But so if you're here to uh hear about that we're we're not talking about that
tonight Um before you jump on where's the Beaver Dam that's in question it's the one the the Fisk Pond It's Well it's the it's the water that comes into Lake Wyola that goes under um Lake View Drive Yep Yep
Okay Yeah So just just curious and I know we're not getting into it Just to kind of define the issue it's a it's a dam that has not been taken down yet correct right Yeah Great Thank you
Yes Um what else oh just uh so I did I was part of this regional group and we did submit our application our MVP application which is um municipal vulnerability preparedness program It's
a state grant that you can apply to every year and it was a regional group and we applied all the towns in the Fort River wershed I think I told you guys that we were going to apply Now we actually have but it's was all the towns in the Fort River wershed applying for
funding to do covert assessment slash prior priorization um for uh getting grants and things like that So it's um it be very exciting to get it It's it would include training
college kids mostly on the um northeast aquatic aquatic conductivity assessment It's a it's a technique for assessing um culvers was actually I think it was put together by Scott Jackson from UMass and
it's so it's a it's a way to assess and prioritize culverts and it's also includes um uploading them into this big database of all of the northeast with information about culverts So um that
was exciting and we'll see what happens Oh the other thing I was going to say is um that the drought task force did downgrade the Connecticut River Valley from a level three critical drought
status to level one which is mild drought They just had their meeting this week Um and so we are still considered to be in a drought but we we had some real good improvement in the last couple months And you know they meet once a month
So if if the rain continues through April as it has in February March then hopefully we'll actually come out of any kind of drought status in a month or so but we'll see So right now we're level one mild
drought Um all right and that's all I had So next thing on the agenda is to review and vote on the minutes of March 27th Does anybody have any comments or changes for the minutes i thought they looked
okay Jan are you good with the minutes i am All right So I'll take a motion to approve the minutes of March 27th So motioned Second
Great All right Um Douglas Hi Rowan Hi And Wilson Hi All right What time is it oh it's only 7:05 Um okay So next we have site visits Jan
we didn't have much on the table Um and we're going to be talking about the bundled NOI for the highway department and Furcog So really we just went out on onto Wendle Road and took a look at the kinds of things that they're doing And I guess we'll be talking about the kinds
of things that can be bundled versus the ones that are going to require NOIs So that was on April 7th Uh Bob Beth and I were there Geez the whole contingent On the 8th the very next day
I went out and walked around the library construction site It's pretty much as I've been reporting right along Um there was a breach on the north settling pond by the road which they have repaired again It was breached before they
repaired it and they repaired it again And the real problem is on the western side the waddles have been overtopped by sediment and for the most part that hasn't been a big deal because we also have the silt curtain behind the waddles
which is catching anything that might flow over But there is one spot in that row in the northwest corner by the actual library building now uh where the sentiment escaped the envelope So um they were told they had to get that
fixed and um I guess we'll see We'll see what happens Jen I'm sorry Had a quick question Jan how have they been um related to your reports and requests for uh for repair
uh h how how are they received and how quickly do you get a response i would say they're pretty good Um that doesn't mean they you know turn on a dime because they kind of don't Uh but for example they did they had to move on
the eastern side of the construction site They had to move the silt fence and the waddle waddle roll to accommodate um uh the dig for the electric line They had to kind of shift everything off to the east And
they did that really successfully I mean you could barely tell that they'd done it So they did that while meantime on the other side you know things were starting to get a little sloppy So it this was not a big leak of sediment but
it it is you know we've been cautioning them and and now I think they really should take it seriously because if we have a couple good heavy rains again they may have a much bigger problem on their hands Great Thank Thank you very much Um when are you going weekly at this
point i'm going every other week Do you want it to be weekly maybe just this time to see if they fix that one area You could try going next Well we're going to have a bunch of rain so you know it may be worth going you know
again I'll I'll let Maryanne know that we want to do that Yeah And um you when you and I went out there we we kind of identified a few areas of the silt sock that looked like it needed to be
replaced because it was just basically saturated Have they done any of that yet no No that's just my point We've been we've been pointing out these you know weaknesses and risks and and you know I guess you know until you're
bleeding you don't worry M while you hold your sharp knife I don't know you know Uh we'll see We'll see how they respond I mean I walked around with Roger who's the sight guy Oh good And you know he he's he's he
he fine when you're looking at stuff and you and recognizing things So hopefully he can push him to So all they had to do is get a new waddle in for now Yeah It would probably solve the problem Yeah All right Well let's see what
happens next week I guess I think if it if there's starting to be sediment getting outside the silt fence we need to be a little more heavy-handed and tell them that if it continues to happen we'd have to actually issue an enforcement order on
them Um and I doubt they would want that I'm sure Maryanne wouldn't want that It appeared that Maryanne understood the problem Somebody else did She did So we ought to be okay there I think All right Well
we'll we'll see what it looks like on Tuesday Thank you for going out there Yeah So the last site visit was this afternoon You and I went over to Shore Drive and it turned out that uh 77 Shore Drive wanted to put in a parking area which is outside the 100 foot away from
Lake Wyola So they're fine Yeah Great Thank you Yep Um next on the agenda is um land management update Scott's not here
Um I don't think there's there's been anything on any of our conservation areas since we met two weeks ago Um you know the big thing right now is the uh CPA applications and those will be
coming before town meeting on May 31st So it' be great if as many commissioners could make it to the town meeting and just support um Matteo and answer questions I think Scott will definitely be there I'll definitely be
there to help answer any questions residents might have about the applications Um but if you guys come and vote you know support it that'd be great Um time's at
71 We still have four minutes My cat is meowing outside the door I told her she couldn't come to this meeting I said she comes to too many of my meetings Yeah I think we should put Ginger on the on the roll call I know
right oh Dave you have your hand up Yeah you started the meetings mentioning something about the Fisbrook Culver uh Beaver Dam thing I got a I got a text from
Haley that she wanted to have a meeting at 3:45 on Monday Yeah Can you make that meeting um I have a training thing going on in Greenfield at the Furkov I don't know what time that ends Would Megan be able to answer
that question that is a great question I think let me look it up right now I think it ends at 3:30 but let me check That would be looking might be great for you Just a second I'll look that up I'll get
it back to you I'm pretty sure it's 3 3 or 3:30 but let me find out So this is just going to be the Furkhog and the Board of Health That's what she said I didn't know if there was anybody else involved
Oh you mean for the Beaver Dam yep Um yeah I don't think that'll be for COG That would be the Board of Health Um you me um new town manager I think that's about it I think it sounded like town
manager wanted a general idea of how the town approaches beaver dams and then so we can do that but then also specifically talk about that one which is kind of a special one because are we we're talking about the one that the canoers and the kayakers like to go
through right yeah So that it makes it very different than a regular covert that might be clogged by beaver Um so anyway I think that's the idea is to talk about it in general but then also talk specifically about that one Our
training ends at 2:30 Oh okay So I should be able to make it No problem Okay Thank you Megan That was my question Okay great Um all right It's basically 7:15 Um at 7:15 we've got continuation of the
public hearing for the bundle NOI um for the Department of Public Works So we have Angela and Megan and Dave Hello
Hello How's everybody doing well Um you received the amendments correct yeah received So what what I've got is basically what you were saying was like
the most updated narrative right Okay And that had like Megan's last comments added to it too I saw she sent like a red line version and the last one that you sent Angela has everything in it Okay It has everything included
All right Do you guys want to want to just talk a little bit about any of the changes that that you made or um I guess any answers to our questions that we came up with at the last meeting
speaking for myself I think covering the amendments would be would be great Yep So what we did was we incorporated
um uh Shootsbury local bylaw and regulations into it First section where we talk about sorry I'm flipping between my remote desktop and my Zoom
desktop Um we added the aura to the areas that can be worked in and we added
um isolated vegetated wetlands into areas that cannot be worked in We also were sure to go through it and wherever we mentioned the wetlands
protection act we also incorporated the local bylaw and regulations Megan did add stuff about right sizing culverts into uh the section and
I think that was it I don't I don't think I'm right And right sizing was just for anything 18 in or less Anything above that would require a separate conversation with the concom
Okay Um so I have a question Have a quick question Oh yeah sure On Sand Hill we have a rotted cover pipe that broke and somebody stuffed a big boulder in it We pulled the boulder out and we put a sign
over the top of it you know a bent sign over the top of it and buried it back in But that culvert needs to be replaced It's not 18 in It's way below 18 I think it's like a 12 in culbert pipe So what's
is it storm water or is it is does it carry an actual storm water area yeah it's a storm water where the water comes down off the side of the road and it collects and then the it comes up to the side up to the pipe and then it drip drips down over the other side It's it's
storm water runoff It's not really a a stream or anything There's a stream up the up the road from there but it's not connected to this but just a water Yeah
Um well I think we don't have this NOI sort of in place yet So if it's something that you want to do right away we would probably have to first set up a site visit and and go look at it and see what needs to be um filed
Are you asking hypothetically that under what would happen once this is filed under situations like that so I my understanding is is if the bundled notice of intent were in place today and it is a storm water and it is
below 18 in you could replace it um and you could increase its size as uh as long as it's not a string but let's this would be it's a good situation to discuss with the
concom that should be covered Um so that kind of gets into one of my questions which is where is it um the section is t typical
maintenance activities Would those activities be included in the annual project list that we would you know get in the beginning of the year or or those because they're typical they would they
would still be included in that project list Um that is at the commission's discretion So what I used to do like typical maintenance like mowing
uh catch basin cleaning street sweeping those were just kind of do it But if they were doing any sort of reclamation even if it was just milling and repaving not like a full depth
reclamation that is when they would submit their project list Okay So that was I was just curious that the way the notice of intent is written So there's that section that has like you said sort of things that maybe aren't going to be on the project
list But then when we go back to the list of you know suitable projects under a bundled NOI it's kind of a mix like that suitable projects under bundled NOI has some of the things that are included in the typical maintenance which might not
come before us every year but then it has stuff in it that it seems like now you're saying those these are the things that would be on the list like um uh maintenance and repair of structural conveyances and um so things like head
walls and wing walls and splash pads um although I think splash pads might have been listed like maintenance of the splash pads is listed with that under the typical maintenance um but like if you were going to go in and
actually really repair a head wall that doesn't seem like something that would be a a typical typical Yeah So it's it's just a little confusing in the NOI to know which types of
work we're going to get sort of this list of at the beginning of the year and actually get a chance to um do site visits to and really be part of the decision about it versus stuff that's not we're not going to see at all But I
agree there should be you know like I agree that that list of what you have in the back for typical maintenance mowing catch basic cleaning street sweeping we don't I don't think we want to see that every year but when then you But it's just a little confusing the way it's
presented I guess Um so I guess if you look at the suitable projects under the bundled NOI the second sentence says the commission at its own discretion shall determine what proposed work activities
will be included and what will be rejected Um so maybe in one of our conditions we list what we consider to be typical maintenance under that other section and
and spell out that those are things that don't have to come to us in a list every year And these are the things that we would like to see following the process that you guys talk about like under work protocol where you're saying you know submit a list and have the commission
review it like which which work we would like to happen under that Yes might be a way to do it Uh do you do finding of facts or do you just do finding of facts that oh
the special conditions yeah we do that Yep So that is where I would typically put it is under the finding of facts that these projects are suitable
um but have to be included in the yearly list Okay So for instance okay just to clarify from some real world examples every year if Dave knows in the winter he's created a punch list of he knows that this culvert needs to be replaced
it's just a storm water culvert He knows this head wall needs to be repaired He can put that punch list together and for those that you would like specific locations he can give that to you every spring You you could look at it and decide "Yeah yeah go for it Go for it Go for it Let's hold on on that one Let's
just take a look at it." Type of thing Is that general understand how the process works yeah Okay Yeah that sounds great I just was trying to clarify sort of which work fell fell under that um more typical maintenance which I don't
feel like needs to be on that list I guess like catch bas and cleaning kind of thing because then they're sort of all mixed Yep Okay that is good Um the other thing I'm still a little
unclear about how to approach is the uh just delineating of wetland areas Um again like you would get the project list of the special type projects like that
Um and I guess the way this is written is [Music] um the the on-site meeting which would come based on that list We've got the delineating and flagging by a competent member of the
conservation commission or other experienced in wetland delineation Um and again that's one of those things that's completely commission dependent If you have the capacity and the
knowledge to say this is where the wetland is and put your erosion controls here versus if you don't So cuz my typical process was always whenever I'd get the list I'd hop in the
truck with my DPW director um and go look at the specific areas and we bring a can of spray paint and essentially spray paint the road around the wetland areas where they had to put up silt fence or some sort of erosion
control Yeah I guess um I guess the way it's written performed by a competent member of the conservation commission or others experience wetland delineation does kind of leave it up to the commission to decide whether or not
they're competent you know So because the commission changes so much you know Yes believe over Yeah But you want the NOI and the order conditions to
um stand over time So there'll be different people and uh so again maybe just clarifying that in one of our conditions Um so all right All right And then I guess the
only thing that we also need to talk about and I and clarify I think in our conditions is um what can happen in in what kind of storm water drainage
conveyances you know make it clear that uh you know what what what is really defined as um just storm water versus anything that could be jurisdictional and that's [Music] tricky
Um but besides that I think all the rest of the type type of work that's going on like road grading and mowing and all that um makes sense Bob and Jan do you have any comments
um I I was curious about um uh the the wetland delineation and um so say say DPW has a project that they they they want to do um and I I just didn't want to uh I was worried that the pressure
might be on the commission to suddenly go out and do a delineation and sometimes that's sometimes delineations are complex and I just wanted to kind of see how that how that would shake out I I was worried that it it might just be too much responsibility too quick and
um anyway that that's that's what I wanted to voice Yeah I think um and you guys let me know what you think but um so we're just kind of talking a bit about that and you know it's it's written that
certain way of needing a competitive person in the NOI and then in the conditions we can spell out even more that if the commission has any concerns or feels like the delineation is is is too complicated that they have
the right to to hire or you know recommend somehow the it be the town paying for it but um recommend to have a professional wetland scientist come out and do the delineation if it's a complicated one So that there's sort of
that option Yep I I I I salute that option Thank Thank you Great Um and at least from what I saw on the site visit it did appear that Dave is
conscious of what a wetland is from where he was stopping doing certain things So that's a plus that he is knows what to like noticeably is a
wetland Some DPW staff aren't that educated Yeah I'd like to reiterate that I think we're very lucky to have gave it a board Excellent Angela and I were in a unnamed
town today in a different county that where they the DPW actively reroutes streams So you're very lucky No literally like pulls up culverts in the middle of the road and then sends it down the drainage swale Perennial
streams that blow out everybody on the road's driveway culverts Nice Yeah Sounds like good engineering Not only do they not know what a wetland or a stream is but they also aren't quite sure on
how to engineer carrying water [Music] Um one thing I just noted uh I guess with the mowing is and and this is more of a question for Dave is
this is the idea of spreading invasives when you're doing over the guard rail mowing and stuff like that um how do you handle that well I know everybody talks about
knotweed and um not too many people talk about the the vines which is I forget what they call that That's um bittersweet The bittersweet Yeah Um a lot of times the bittersweet gets mowed
just because it's there Um and I've been avoiding the knotweed sections because uh they do just it just increases the number of knotweed that's there but you still have to get it off you know it's hanging over the road You got to get it
off the road Um there's a huge area up on for in for instance on Pelum Hill down over the guard rails on Pelum Hill Pelum Hill You know those have always been mowed Um and they they do get pretty tall and they they do come over
the guard rails So whatever the town wants done there I mean they don't want it sprayed So I don't know how else to do it other than just to mow it Um so that's that's been
the past practice is we've mowed it Steve didn't want to mow it because he wanted to spray it and nobody wants to spray it So I mean what do you do i I did have a situation in the first town I worked at um where we did mow it
and then we put down uh fabric and then we covered it with like 8 in to 12 in of wood chips and that seemed to keep it at bay for a while but then it started growing on top of the
fabric So that's pretty hard to get rid of Um it is really hard to get rid of I mean I I I that's the only thing I can think of is to mow it and cover it in wood chips but that's not going to stop
it So with the fabric if you get a thicker barrier and it's black you can solarize it and bake it But don't put the wood chips on top of it cuz that prevents the sun from cooking it
So you would lay it down in either you just use rocks or whatever or to hold the tarp down and you do it over the summer months and it super duper cooks it Um
and it's a good way to eradicate not weed That's a good idea everybody about that we tried somewhat successfully I don't know in Ammerst put down
um fencing that has I guess they're half inch squares almost to the fencing and so you put it down about like right about now in the the end of March early April and the knotweed gets through but
then you have to stake it down really really Well cuz then the knotw weeds can little sprouts can get through but once they get to a certain uh stem diameter they basically get cut by the fencing And it it sort of worked It it
in the end they pulled up the fencing You know as much as we tried to keep it staked down they're very strong So if you're not out there every single day checking it then you come back and all of a sudden it's pulled up part of the fencing But anyway I don't know And with the
mowing I don't Is there a way to mow something like that and then almost wash down your equipment before you move somewhere else so that you're not spreading either the bittersweet or the notweed or the multifllora rose or
anything else that that you're cutting well a lot of times um you just run the head for a while and it kicks everything off the head Um so not the only time anything ever sticks to the head is when
it's grabbed some wire or twine or anything like that but the knotweed does not stay in the head The RPMs on that head are high They're 3500 RPMs so it kicks everything out of there Uh the only thing that sticks to it is like
grass if you're mowing wet grass Um but a lot of times we we do wash the head but we do it at the highway barn right it's hard to do it out on the road We don't have that kind of equipment to wash it out on the road And I don't know
if that's really what you want me to do either Um so we usually we usually just clean it up when we get to the highway barn You know there is another section on Prescott up just after Koolieville turns to dirt
There's the guardrails down there that has to be mowed because that comes right out onto the road The notwe just leans right over and people can't see cars coming the other way So that's another area that we mow That's really I don't think there's
too many other places other than there Um the problem with notweed that's different than um the bittersweet or barberry is notweed spreads through fragmentation
similar to like aquatic invasives like mil foil or fan wart So by mowing it and getting those pieces in your equipment you are spreading it because you're fragmenting it and that
is what makes it so hard to control Mhm Well I know that the um that notweed coalition is is planning on digging out the ones that um that we identified as not being near any resource areas That
was the last I heard from that group that instead of using they you know they had they were kind of trying to propose using u herbicides but it all just got into a big too much of a big discussion with other people in the town Um so the
last thing I heard is that the few locations that we identified as being outside buffer zone or anything they were just going to dig them up So that might help a little bit You might see some of them disappear hopefully
Um all right I think that was and I do know for chemical control for notweed there's one that is injectable So you inject it into each individual So it's not like a folure
spray or something like that Um and it just attacks the one plant and goes down and kills its roots But again that opens a can of worms and isn't technically covered under this permit Yeah I know this permit doesn't talk at
all about pesticides or herbicides so yeah No Yeah I know that it's a tricky subject Um okay I don't think I had any more real questions about it It seems
like seems like you know we just need to write our order conditions with some real specific some more specific details to expand on what is in the NOI
already which um you know I can I can work on and obviously um we'll bring that to the next meeting But so does any Jan or Bob do you have any more questions or comments i'm all set Thank you Okay Yeah I
thought the up updates were helpful Uh and and it's I guess that my concern was the example that Dave brought up the Culver on Sandill That sounds like the perfect example of one that you could
upgrade because it is smaller than 18 in unless you are flagging some other issue around that culvert It's just a a rotted the whole top of it rotted and it's been repaired a couple times with like plastic cover pipes and
it's very shallow on the road So it just it just needs to go down a little bit deeper with the same size culbert and that should solve the problem there Um okay So you don't have a lot of road fill on top of it Not at all It's about 4 in
Trying to trying to grade over that without you know crushing that culvert pipe is ridiculous I got to I got to get it down lower Um and there's plenty of room there to get it down lower I just don't know why it was up so high
One of the residents called me and told me that there was an imminent collapse ready to happen on Sand Hill And so that's why we went down there and looked and it looked like somebody threw a a big boulder in the hole and it was stopping the water from going
through And so we pulled the boulder out and I put a a vent sign over the top of the pipe where where it was going through the road And I just covered it with regular road material that we had there Um but that color pipe needs to be changed uh pretty soon otherwise there
will be a problem there I was hoping to work on it on Tuesday because I have that the fur cog class on Monday but if that's something I can do I I'll be happy to do it Yeah I think so You know we don't have
this bundled NOI in place yet So I think we if we can schedule a a site visit next week for us to look at it Yeah If you want to do it on Tuesday we can do that Tuesday Yep It's got to be fixed
soon It's kind of an emergency situation there Um I'd still have some funding to for this to do site visits if you wanted me to attend I mean there's a possibility we could do it Monday since the training
ends at 2:30 and everyone's going to be driving from Greenfield and you get out of work and probably be there for we have we have that 3:45 meeting about the beaver dam
Yeah I wasn't paying attention in the beginning Oh that's okay Um but Dave if you wanted to go after the Beaver Dam meeting we could swing by That's fine Yeah if you're already there at that meeting you might as well take a
swing by down there if you want It's fine with me All right So Jan and Bob we're meeting at the town hall right yep 3:45 Yep Okay Yeah we could swing down after that if you want
Okay Show you where it is Yep Jan and Bob if you guys want to come It sounds like that's Monday afternoon probably like 4:15 or so Okay great Thank you I'll see if I can make that
Okay Um All right Um sounds like there's no more questions from the commission So we'll take any comm uh comments or questions from the public about the blended NOI Seeing none
um I will take a motion to close the public hearing for the bundled NOI So motioned Second I'll second that All right Rowan I
Douglas I and Wilson I All right Thanks everyone We'll put an order of conditions together um and have it at our next meeting which is let me look at the
date the 24th of April So you know there's no requirement ever for applicants to come to that meeting because the public hearing's been closed but if you want to come and and see what the draft order conditions look like and and also I can
send I'll send you guys a copy of the draft order conditions so you can comment on it And we'll be going through the draft at the next meeting and seeing if we can finalize it Would it help if I sent some of the
other orders of conditions I've done for these so you can look at it sure Yeah that sounds good That'd be great Been a few towns like Notorious Middlefield where I've done both the notice of intent and then followed up and had to
do the order of conditions [Laughter] Yeah Send me whatever ones have been approved or you know a couple examples that would be great Awesome All right Well thank you very much Thank
you Mom Have a good night You too Appreciate it All right Um next on the agenda is Mark who has been sitting here so politely um going to give us an update on where his
conservation restriction is at Can everyone hear me okay Yep Good I'm I'm losing you guys a little bit so if I I'll apologize if I have to
ask for repeat Um everything came together today of course You know it's how it always goes Uh the surveyor actually dropped off the plan last uh yesterday Um I don't know if anybody got a chance to look at it but he did a great job He really went above and
beyond on the right of ways and any possible restrictions on the property just to make sure when we write this or finalize this conservation restriction that we're taking those into account Um we start with the land of WD Kohl's that
right of way a and it's a it's a incorrect description as I understand it that doesn't hold up It allows me to put the right of way anywhere I want Uh Kohl's has made it clear they're not going to use it anyway They have one further up the road that allows them direct access and not have to go and
deal with wetlands So it's good to know that um this can be these three can be put on the plan to make sure that uh conservation restriction area um does make note of these uh existing
all the way back in the 1800s Uh there's another one that um land of WD calls formally hunting That's the third one here Never se which was just added when hunting sold the land to Kohl's that didn't exist prior Uh so that doesn't
have a lot of a lot of strength either And the last one is the one Irish or that I didn't know existed It actually was a subject to a right of brown It appears that of course this parcel was a much larger parcel at one time has been broken up over the years and Brown was
way up somewhere else But because it was on uh the original deed for all this land together it sort of just migrates itself onto this as well It doesn't show on my deeds in the last 50 years or plus Um and that brings up the next issue and
that is that um the surveyor said that the state of Massachusetts likes to have a deed research done sometimes attached to the title research Uh one more thing Uh so I said it's gonna end It really is
So I called uh Dan Dan Graves my attorney and he informed me that that companies don't do title research for civilians So he would see if he could get Deb at Valley Title to do a title research through his company for this
piece Um I don't think it's necessary I put up in the email today I asked Donna if she could answer that eventually Um but it's not going to be tremendously expensive in comparison to everything else I've spent on this thing So why not add it if it gives this the state a little bit of comfort It only goes back
50 years And again my surveyor has gone back a lot farther than that So uh Chris uh from Birkshire Design only got this today as well So as you saw I sent out my first email and I hadn't had heard from Chris uh and got his email immediately after I had sent
one to you folks So he has already added in Charlie Easeman's stuff into this draft of the conservation restriction Fantastic And uh now that he has the survey he can do the minimization and add the copy of the survey to this as
well That'll take no time at all Um so the last thing I think that on my agenda anyway that we need to discuss you guys might have some other stuff but is the $10,000 And all I want to do is get a feeling as to how that number came about So the first question I've got two
questions The first is what was Deari charged on that restriction and I'm not looking to uh say well he paid this because I think over time I think the conservation commissions and other people holding these uh restrictions
understand how much it takes to continue the uh oversight on them and making sure that they're looked at once a year or whatever the the time frame will be So I understand you need enough put away so that it'll gain interest and hopefully
the cost of the uh inspection per year uh will not go past the interest and allow the interest to acrew to be able to make larger principle and so on and so forth and um allow this uh contribution to expand So I the only way
that I come up with I'm trying to figure out how you guys came up 10,000 and you know just a number sorted out of the air uh was that $10,000 at 4% in interest on a long-term CD gives you $400 a year I would guess that uh uh somebody's going
to walk that parcel in much less than an hour u if there's no infractions and then they'll have another hour to write up a report uh call it a hundred bucks an hour maybe somewhere in that range and probably less time than I'm suggesting at two hours So you've got a couple hundred bucks a year and that
leaves you another $200 a year to acrue into principal so that you can get interest off of that as time goes on and take care of any sort of inflationary stuff so that the 10,000 should last a very long time So I think I've just defended your point but I was hoping that you guys would do that and explain
to me how you came up with 10 grand Yeah No that's exactly that's exactly right I have written on the top of my my notes here 10,000 endowment times 4% is $400 a year And you know I I I have that there
which I think may have come Donna may have said something I think Bob researched it a little bit I think I even just Googled it you know to try to find out like how do groups usually do it and that seemed to pop up enough that that just that was the calculation that
we did And I think somewhere in here I have how much the Deamari one was but I have to search for it a little bit Um is that Bob you did a little research on it too right yeah I apologize I I I did talk to uh somebody
who works for Sbury Valley Trust as well as uh Harvard Conservation Trust and and just as we were going through this I was trying to find those numbers and I I wasn't able to get those I think they sent those on on to on to you But um but it is I think they were similar is what
I remember Yeah I think frankly I think uh um between five and 10 would would would put us in in the in the area How big areas that the other were dealing
with yeah I I apologize Mark Uh I I wasn't able to catch that You were a little bit broken up What the acreage was for the Sudbury conservation restriction or the other one yeah you know that that would
certainly would be a good way to make a fair comparison and and I I I don't have that information handy I apologize And were you able to find that Beth on Deari i'm looking My My cat jumped on My cat was in the
way Messing everything up [Laughter] go away I can I I can send that to you and I can I can find Bob's email that you sent too and um just a bit more information on on
where that came from Um but I do think it would it'll be in that range you know like like Bob said 5 to 10 in there somewhere just to give you an idea But um but yeah we should we should finalize that number I can send
you the information Um and then maybe it sounds like we're getting pretty close with the actual CR So if you're thinking of coming to our next meeting in two weeks and could get us all a copy of that almost almost you know that real
draft that's almost final CR um up to a week or so before that meeting then we'd all really get a chance to read through it um make sure it's got everything and then you know at that meeting and I'll send you between between now and then
I'll send you more information on um where we came up with the number for the amount and and then we can talk about that at the next meeting We'll have a problem with putting that to rest right now if we can agree on 7500 bucks which is right between 5,000 and
10,000 Again if Deari was lower than that you know you'd probably have earned some stuff and it makes more sense to have a little more cash in there Um I don't know why I think that we I had heard 5,000 on his but again I don't think it's a apples to apples sort of
thing Times times change as you know as time goes on you'll learn more about how these things run So if um if we want to throw $7,500 in there I don't know if you want to do a vote on it or how you want to handle it but I think that's fair And um I think that uh by I'm going
to guess by tomorrow or Monday Chris will have the documentation of the survey added to the plan That was the last piece So I'm hoping um either tomorrow or the beginning of next week I can have the plan the conservation restriction to you with the plan involved Um I did send you his updated
one So you should have that today which showed the um what he's they're calling conservation values protected to this or by this conservation restriction So that was on page two changing page two So that was in the email should have been in the email I sent you guys this
morning Um so the only thing missing on there again is the survey and uh yehaw Yeah this has been a long process Oh it's brutal And it's and I take you know it was just as they say the perfect
storm you know losing my losing my uh engineering firm because they no longer had a Massachusetts licensed engineer They would have taken care of all of this You know I've gotten very used to writing the check and not having to do the work any longer And this sort of fell in the lap And you know as soon as
you gave me a copy I went "Oh crap." You know this is way over my pay scale So it was great that Birkshshire Design was able to step in and then Charlie Eisman was a perfect fit You know just great So you know for what the way it transpired
um or what what what set it up and the way it transpired it turned out to work very very well But at least it's coming to a a head and end and we can get it over to the state um after you guys uh take your vote Hopefully take a positive vote and then we can have it go toward
the state I think that's how it's supposed to work And uh I think for your next meeting as you said on the 24th we'll be more than ready for it And um we can wrap it up Yeah that that all sounds good I think that would be
probably when we should all vote to you know approve the CR but also a vote on the on the amount of money Um Donna is going to come to that meeting um and you know may more than anything at that meeting I think it would be more her
guidance on um where it goes from here like you know it's going to need our signatures but it's also going to need I believe the select board signature and a few other people so and she can help with that I think so um yeah so she'll be at that meeting and yeah so maybe
this will all come together and close itself on the 24th I haven't lost sight of the fact that you folks didn't have to do this either So I do appreciate it It's really hard to find a holder of restricted of this size So thank you all
for this I appreciate all the time you put into it It's you know I'm I'm going to sell it and hopefully get my money back and or make something on the the property but you folks do this out of the goodness of your hearts and making sure that Shootsbury has volunteers in place to run these committees and
commissions and the rest And uh without you guys the government fails So thank you so much for doing this and adding one more burden onto your your list of things you have to do and I hope it won't be a burden Well well it's always good to see land get conserved you know have CRS put on
it So I know the planning board made you do it but um it's just all still so good Anytime anybody puts CR on on land it's all good and and um and yeah we because we're a small we don't have a huge list
I guess of of we have a few and it's getting longer all the time of like new conservation lands and and new CRS that we have to keep track of But um but yeah it's all good Yeah I'm glad the way it works you know it allows the land to
have some buil also has a lot of obviously three times as much conserv 300% more for conservation So I think it's a great concept Um very excited to see somebody do something positive over there and follow the rules So see you guys on the 24th I'll get you
the information later than beginning next week with the finalized conservation restriction I'll throw 7,500 bucks in there Um so we have something to look at and then go from there for the vote on the 24th Yes Great All right That sounds good
Nice to see you Thank you very much Nice to be seen Have a good night Have a good night All right Hey Beth I think it was Scott that came up with that figure for the 4% based on um the price tag of doing annual surveys
or whatever is required at some other locations in town Yeah asking him the 400 Yeah I'll maybe I'll ask him too for for um you know it's a pretty basic you know
4% is about right and so and then it's the question of would we spend $400 a year um and maybe that's you know Scott knows a little more about what you pay for Yeah it might be size dependent but I thought he was talking about some something that he was spending 300 something on a year so that's how he got
to the 400 He just rounded it Yeah Yeah Yeah and it seems about right to me So but 750 I think is close to you know that would that would still get us what might be enough And it is a smaller
parcel Um all right Well I'll check in with him on it too before the 24th All right Next on the agenda is the deter the uh determination of
applicability for the Atkins reservoir basin So I am going to recuse myself again Um Matteo's got the drafted determination of applicability Oh shoot
there's only two of you God dang it Wouldn't wouldn't we be able to since we have a an assembled quorum of three of us wouldn't two of us be allowed to to to vote and and therefore pass as a quorum it would be No we don't have a quorum
while we're looking at this Yeah I think I see I apologize Yes Yeah we would need three three neutral folks in order to be a quorum of the commission That's that's correct
Oh well I'll let the consultants they they didn't um need to come tonight So I'll let them know that it just got moved to the 24th because we mayor was going to come tonight until about half an hour
before the meeting she got um sick so she couldn't come Um so is it um do we have to do anything to continue this no because the hearing's closed and we closed the public hearing now
We're just looking at the drafted permit Um so there's there's no sort of continuation of it It's just um we just move it to the next meeting So there's no deadline There's a 21 day issuance I believe from
closing the hearing That's true It's 21 days from when you close the hearing And it's already been 14 So yeah really we need to issue it in the next week Huh Well but so as this has come up
before my brain is just not working so well It's all that all those deadlines are also all they all can be continued as long as the applicant is all right with it So um guess
what i believe I am the applicant in this case Well the town of Ammerst is the applicant Um and I I can speak for the town of Ammerst in saying that we are fine with moving uh
the review of the draft permit until the 24th It's fine Yeah I I think that would be it uh uh going beyond the 21day uh leaves it open to an appeal by the applicant and if the applicant is giving
consent to hear it later on then then I think we're we're totally on solid ground Yeah I I had that conversation many times with Mark extensive about um typically with like an order of conditions is huge and it's going to take you more than 21 days to get a
final version of it and he said a number of times to me um as long as the applicant's okay with it it's it's really fine So this is kind of funny You can't vote but you can extend Okie do
Yeah Don't know what else to do Would rather do that than vote Voting doesn't seem right No Yeah moving it to the next meeting is all right How about uh uh Jan I'm asking you if
it's okay to table it to the next meeting and and I will say so too and then that will become part of the minutes I don't think it matters what we think because the the applicant just said "Yeah
[Laughter] we're good." That's in the minutes Y um Okay then Um and as I said earlier the emergency sert we're not talking about tonight because it's also got tabled Um do you want to supply any do
you want to supply any information on the beaver thing is there any information that you can share um just that um originally I so all I know is that the highway department and probably some
residents you know saw this dam there Um and be it had to do a little bit with there was an emergency search issued at some point Something that the health department had written that just said to almost
continually clean make sure that covert stays clean so that nothing builds up over time So we're not in the situation that we're in right now Mhm But then with the turnover of the superintendent of the of DPW that kind of got lost And so here we
are again with having the Beavers built up something that's pretty significant in that cover Um and then I I believe there was some talk of um wanting trapping but then the health department not approving that So because
of that then the dam got even bigger because the beavers are still there They're there right now Um what was the reason the health department did not approve trapping i think they wanted to use the con bear type
traps which is underwater drowning is um yeah they're the ones I guess you could call them that they're the just a snap kind of a thing Um so so I know that they're piling the stuff up kind of
in the culvert Isn't that the case i think deceiver doesn't work right that location of beaver deceiver um couldn't work This is why that's a unique situation because that's where the kayaks want to be able to go through
A beaver deceiver you know you put a fence around and then you have a pipe usually coming through the fence So it has to be So the So the camp has the kayak thing going on Yeah Right The kayak canoe thing kind of adds a whole It makes it not a
typical culverted like a beaver culvert situation where you would call in beaver solutions to try to see if they could put a fence or the whole beaver deceiver with the pipe but we can't do that here Um so that's part of the problem and and that may have impacted
the the whole idea about trapping them as well if kids are in the water there Yeah Yeah Yeah So it's it's a it's a thing And and then Dave kind of threw in at the last minute that he didn't feel
comfortable having his highway guys going in the water when this was a bit ago when it was still so cold Um he thought that was dangerous to them And so it's a whole discussion about how to figure it out So it's not it it originally
um I had got the select board meeting just said this is the process for getting an emergency certification and the health director had said okay let's do that Um but then there was more discussion about
it and it didn't seem as simple anymore So we're going to talk more about it next week Okay Yep Um all right So do you guys want to have time to look at the regulations a little bit
do we really want to do that with uh 40% of us missing yeah I don't know It's up to you guys I might be a good time to end a meeting early You know they snooze they lose
they don't get out early Yeah I mean I agree It's not good to to really do it possibly with Scott and Mayor not here What do you think Bob yeah I was kind of on the fence but uh Jan Jan has convinced me that um uh it might be nice
to end the meeting Tabling it is a is is a good idea Okay everybody say that I think we were on the small permit section So maybe if I'll send an email around saying people
should look at that plus you know kind of what comes after that which I think I'm hoping we get into sort of things like you know with a section on an NOI and an RDA and a butter notification and stuff that's really straightforward and
we can maybe cruise through pretty fast It's not as complicated I appreciate it when you give us a list Okay I'll send that I'll send that around All right then Great Um no
unanticipated business So I take a motion to adjurnn So motioned I will So uh um second Rowan Hi Douglas Hi and Wilson All right
Well um let me know I guess if you guys can come on uh Monday to see that covert It sounds like it'll be like 4:15ish Good Good Yeah if you could send me a a reminder I I I might be able to escape from work and get get there in
time So I will I don't He said Sand Hill Road but I I don't know much more than that I'll try to get a little more detail into where what he's talking about So okay Great Thank you Thanks everybody Have a great night Bye-bye for now You
too Bye