WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Jqf1aX8zBKc

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: Jqf1aX8zBKc):
- 00:00:00: Informal Chat and Initial Conservation Commission Meeting Start
- 00:05:28: Town Meeting Recap, CPA Proposal, Parcel E2
- 00:10:16: Southbrook Conservation Area Trails and Identification of Members
- 00:13:33: Minutes Approval, Site Visits, and Land Management Discussion
- 00:20:12: Public Hearing Opening: 36 South Laurel Drive Project
- 00:25:01: Commission Questions: Tree Removal, Septic Placement, Grading
- 00:36:51: Commissioners Discussed Road Impact and Retaining Wall Impact
- 00:41:12: Water Flow Discussion and Driveway Design Concerns
- 00:51:48: Private Road Ownership and Maintenance Concerns
- 00:54:15: Applicant Clarification on Planting, Road Maintainence, and Grading
- 00:59:26: Public Comment: Alexandria Winkllor, Adjoining Property Owner
- 01:07:29: Public Comment: Noren Peas, Heavy Equipment Concerns
- 01:10:21: Public Comment: Jen Malin, Neighbor, Runoff Integrity Concerns
- 01:13:36: Public Comment: Tom Seaffort, General Project Concerns
- 01:17:59: Continued Discussion, Changes to Plan, Site Visit Proposed
- 01:23:05: Possible Engineering Peer Review Discussion
- 01:26:51: Motion to Continue 36 South Laurel Drive Public Hearing
- 01:27:27: Library Revegetation Status: Discussion With Penny
- 01:38:14: Discussion of Meadow Mowing Plan and Strategy
- 01:46:33: Adaptive Management: Revisions to Mowing Plan and Invasives
- 01:50:02: Discussion to Move Invasives, Plant, and to Review Cardboard Strategy
- 01:50:57: Public Comment: Mary Lou, Concerns on Privacy Hedges
- 01:53:15: Motion and Vote on Spring Mowing and Cardboard Placement
- 01:57:03: Conservation Draft Discussion, Town Property Map
- 02:03:51: Motion to Adjourn Meeting


Part: 1

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Hey, Matteo, could you give me a mic check? >> Yep, I can hear you. >> Awesome. Thanks, man. Hey, Scott. >> Hey. How are you? >> Good. How you doing? >> I'm doing good.

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>> You have uh in shoot? No. >> Where are you? >> I'm in not I'm at Notre Dame headquarters. >> Really? >> All right. Check it out. It's all Notre Dame stuff

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in South Bend. Close. Granger. >> Oh, everybody there is a little Notre Dame crazy. >> Very much. >> Very much. I was visiting my mother-in-law in uh Champagne Orbana

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right during March Madness and we went to dinner at her retirement community and I have never seen that many old people in orange and like they were just they that whole town that whole town it's it's a Midwest thing for a whole

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community to be completely devoted to their sports team. It's so cute. Yep. All right. Hi, Mayor. Hey, Bob. >> Hey there, Beth. Hey, Scott. Hey, mayor. But I don't see Mary.

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>> Yes. Hi, everybody. Mayor's there. I see. >> Michael's there. >> And Michael, too. >> Hey. >> All right. Great. Well, it's 7:01, so I'm going to call this meeting of the Sheetsbury Conservation Commission to

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order. This meeting is being recorded. Welcome everybody. And first on our agenda is um comments from me. And the only thing I have is that we just had a a great town meeting on Saturday. I don't know which any how

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many of you were able to attend, but it was great. Good job, Matteo and Matteo's wife. You guys did you did a great job. >> Did you go Mayor? Were you there? >> I was there for a very short period of time to vote and to get garbage bags and

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then um I had other plans for the day. So um >> yeah, >> you got to see some so that's good. >> Yeah, I know. Um so at town meeting the um the CPA

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proposals of course came forward and one of them was for the purchase of the um the footed portion of parcel E2 the footed property and it got approved. So that was great. That was the conservation commission's application to CPA.

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Um so yay got voted it got voted with the thumbs up. So, so we'll move forward with that with CPA. I think they have to vote, right, Matteo? And then we get our our grant agreement going with them. And

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um I think the next step for that property is that Kestrel is going to buy the whole parcel together, the part that they want to have, which is on the east side of Wendle Road, and then this portion that we're going to end up buying from them.

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Um and I know that hasn't happened yet. the foot still own the property. Um, so that'll happen first. Um, and you know, there's a few other things that have to happen, but eventually we would buy

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that parcel from uh from Kestrel. So, exciting. >> Very exciting. >> Yeah. And we'll add we'll be adding it to Southport Conservation Area. It'll become part of that, >> right? >> Which is great. and it'll have a

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conservation restriction. >> How does that work in terms of the uh the thought that there could be some low-income housing on the east side of the property uh that's on Locks Pond? Um

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how does that work? Yeah. So that was um the funding that we asked for CPA included buying the parcel for 82,000 and then also doing some some due diligence kind of investigative work to carve out a two acre portion of it along

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Locks Pond Road for affordable housing. The money would include money for a survey and for um a wetland delineation and something else that I'm forgetting. um to just kind of start looking at that that idea. And there were there were a

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lot of questions at town meeting about that and Rita Frell answered most of those because this is this was her idea. She's done a lot of affordable housing work. That was her career and she'd really love to work with Habitat for Humanity and and and do this. It's um

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you know it's it's not all finalized really at this point, but there is some money now set aside to do some basic um investigation of that piece of land to see if it could be used for affordable housing, >> right? And and does who moves that forward that

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part of it does um does the conser I mean is it a joint effort by all the different boards or how does that or how does that work? >> Yeah the well the CPA application was under both open space and affordable

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housing. Um, okay. So, you know, I think affordable housing in Shootsberry is is really just the select board. We don't have a unless I don't know about a different board or committee or anything that works on that kind of stuff. So, it would be us working with them

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>> with the budget. You know, we need this much of the grant money to buy the property. Now, there's this much left that we had set aside. and and yeah, we would work with the select board to like hire a surveyor, get the delineation done. Um

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>> okay, >> I think a perk test, that was the other thing that needs to be done there before it can be determined whether it can be developed or not. >> Okay. >> Um so yeah, that's how that would go. >> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Sure. Penny, you have your hand up. General question. You mentioned that this is part of uh will be part of the Southbrook Conservation Area. Um I and I know the commission has another

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CPA grant to improve the trails on that parcel. I'm wondering if it's too late to sort of tag team and include trail work on this new piece or is the

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timing not going to work for something like that? >> Yeah, we're we're pretty far along with trying to contract someone to >> Oh, good. >> do the um the work that was sort of set out before. So there's a, you know,

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there's a RFP that that that has the amount of work on those on the trails. So I know we can't expand it at this point. >> Maybe just a >> a thought on that though, Penny. You know, the the trails do go through this area as you probably

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know. Um, and so I I do think there's probably room like you know what the contractor is doing is a lot of the rehab work and and wetland crossings and things that aren't on this property. So

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when it comes time to blaze it, you know, if if the if the partial if that transfer has gone through, um I do think there would probably be room to, you know, it's going to be incorporated into the overall management

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of it. So um I do think the timing of that could work out well, but there aren't a lot of I wouldn't have thought there would be a lot of trail improvement there anyway. So maybe the the blazing and the maps and all that might coincide with when this might happen. I guess we'll have to see.

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>> Well, it's very exciting. Thanks for all your work on that. All of you. >> Matteo, you have your hand up. I was just wondering there's um somebody with the name iPhone in the uh meeting and I was wondering if they might change their

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name to identify who they are and if Jen could also add uh a last name to identify themselves as well. >> Have to unmute. Am I unmuted? Muted. >> Hello. Okay. I'm sorry. I I can't get my video up here and I'm trying to log on.

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I'm I'm out of state. This is Ria or Alexandria Windller uh uh chiming in here. So, I'm a Shootsberry resident and I'm just trying to log on. I've been getting popped off, but uh I'm here. That's me.

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>> Thank you. >> And uh whoever's logged on as as Jen, if you could add a last name, that would be helpful. All right. Well, moving on. Next on our agenda is review and vote on the minutes of April 23rd. Does anybody have any

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comments or changes to those minutes? Nope. Okay. Then I'll take a motion to approve the minutes of April 23rd. >> So moved. >> Second. I'll second. >> Okay. Roll call. Douglas. >> Hi.

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>> Fox. >> Hi. >> Tommy McDuffy. >> Hi. >> And Khan. >> Hi. >> And Wilson. >> Hi. All right. Next we have site visits. Um, mayor, is

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there any? >> We did a bunch of site visits. We did um out on uh Lake Drive, I think. And then we did um

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we did the library and um and then we did South Laurel. Um the I uh the one on Lake Drive um the Thompson's I don't think that I wasn't clear that they had an application in

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yet. So, I didn't um write that up because I wasn't sure when we were going to discuss that. Um the library, you said that we were going to um put in you we were going to discuss it and uh go

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back to the original drawings as to what that um that catch basin should be in terms of the depth um and and um before we move forward on that. And then um and then the one for uh South Laurel, I

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didn't print the picture. I didn't submit that. Um but I had I did share some of the pictures with um Bob was not present, I guess. So um yeah, the lake the south the lake

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drive one was just really an inquiry into you know. So but that was a good visit. Um, they were wondering about taking down trees and doing work on a retaining wall, but it's it wasn't an application. But we walked around and I think Bob, Mayor, Scott, were you there

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for that one? I can't remember. >> You were there, too? Yep. >> Um, yeah. And then the South Laurel one, we can talk about more when the application gets discussed tonight. >> Right. >> Sounds good. And I know um the town

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administrator's been trying to set up a site visit to 2:30 Lever Road and I I'm not sure if that's been set up or not. She had wanted to wait till after town meeting. Um so I guess we just wait to

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see what if that goes forward or not. I don't know. All right. Next is land management. And Scott, maybe you can update everybody on where we're at with the trail grant. >> Yeah. Um I think at the last meeting we

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talked about the fact that we had bid the project and we're in the process of um awarding that bid and there were problems with um with the bid um in terms of getting

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the bond and and executing the bid successfully. And then we received a notice from the attorney general's office that the process had been challenged and there were problems with with that and as a result

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um we needed to rebid the project and so Matt's been doing yman's work and and um Beth and I had weighed on that with town council to um prepare the the additional bid

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package and I think we're we're close to relleting that. So, um in fact, I I think Matt could probably give an update, but I think we're hoping to have that out here on Monday. So, hopefully the the second time will go around, the

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second time to charm. I guess we'll see. Um but um yeah, nothing's ever easy, but uh hopefully we can get a bid. It's still pretty early in the season. McBth and I went out and did some of the wetland delineation

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um after one of the site visits there at some of the trickier parts of that trail where it comes out um from Town Beach and kind of moves its way along the lake. And that's one area where we thought it uh we've asked the contract

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to look at rerouting. And so we uh we did do wetland delineations there. And so hopefully we'll be u in good shape once this gets rebid and hopefully we get something awarded and we can move forward this season. So

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fingers crossed. >> Fingers crossed. >> Anything else to add, Beth? >> No, no, that was a good good summary. Um yeah. Um we started moving ahead with with a contractor and had to put brakes

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on it because the state um found issue with the RFP. Um, and that was too bad for that contractor, I feel like. Um, but yeah, this has been a huge effort. Really, more than you think you would need to put in to to find a contractor

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to do the trail work. Um, but we're getting there. >> I don't think I had anything else. Are we going to talk I saw on the agenda was talking about some of the um land use rags later in on the agenda. Are we

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going to do that or are we waiting until next meeting? >> Um, if you want to sort of present anything about them, I guess would be my thought. I I don't think I haven't had a chance to really go through them thoroughly.

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Um, but sure, we can we can talk a little bit about it. Sure. And >> Okay. Do you want that later on the agenda, Madam Chair? >> Number seven, right? Discussion of draft regulations for shoots for a conservation area. So, >> okay. >> Yeah, I think that's all I

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>> That's all I have. So, in a report. >> Okay. Oh, yeah. They didn't want Let's not talk about that right now. We'll talk about that later if that's what you meant. Yeah, >> that's what I was asking. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yep. Sounds good. All right. It is 7:16.

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So we can go to our u fifth item on the agenda which is public hearing for notice of intent for reconstruction of a single family home and septic system with associated site improvements portions of which are located within the buffer zone to boarding vegetated

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wetlands at 36 South Laurel Drive parcels A41 and A50 D number 286311 And I know there's a few people here ready to present this project, so feel

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free to go ahead. >> Yeah, I'll I'll jump in. Thank you, Beth. Um, good evening everyone. Rebecca Lee with Arloc Associates located at 40 School Street in Westfield, Massachusetts. Can everyone hear me? Okay. >> Yep.

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>> Great. Um, I also have um representatives from the applica uh the developer um here with me, the the Gripco family. Um, they're on as well. So, if you had any questions for them at the end of the presentation, um, feel free. And, um, you know, please

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interject if you if you'd like to. Linda, I'm going to share my screen. So, let's see here. >> You turn up your volume a little bit. Uh, >> sure. See

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>> is that any better? >> I I think you actually have to turn it up for >> because it's as loud as it could go. >> I can talk I could talk louder. Is that better? >> That's better. >> Okay. All right. Let me uh let me share

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my screen. It says sharing is not turned on. I'm going to send a request request. Okay. Okay, you're all set. >> Okay, perfect. And let me share the right screen here. All right, please let me know when you

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can see the plan. >> We can see it. >> Okay, perfect. All right, so um you're looking at the proposed uh house off of the South Laurel Drive at 36 South Laurel Drive. Um the

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proposed improvements include uh demolishing the existing house that has been um you know not v or has been vacant for quite a bit and replacing it with um 1,64 square foot single family

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residence. Um so as you can see the existing house is kind of in this halftoned um shape right here and portion of it is within the 50 foot buffer here um and it

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also has an issue with a setback um based on the the zoning bylaws. So, with the new proposed house, we're going to reorient it and um make it a compliant structure um with the bylaws and the the

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hatched area that you see with the dashed, that's a deck. That's that represents a porch off of the second story. So, um this doesn't represent, you know, the foundation, just to kind of add that tidbit in there. Um,

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accompanying the house, there's going to be a new, um, paved driveway, a new retaining wall alongside the back here, um, a new well, which is located in this norththeastern corner where my cursor

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is, and a new septic system, which is in this general area here. So, we um received approval from the board of health last week for the septic system design. Um so, we're here tonight

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to request for approval of the notice of intent to perform the work as shown. um which as I mentioned would include the construction of the house, grading associated with that and um the septic

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system and the driveway. Um I believe there was a site visit as mentioned Ryan Nelson from our office attended. Um I don't believe there were any major concerns that were brought to his attention. Um, I do also know that

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Mass D reviewed and did not have comments. So, um, at this point in time, I'd like to turn it over to the commission and if you have any comments or questions, I'd be more than happy to try to address those.

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>> Um, I'll start. Um, I think at the site visit we did actually talk about how many trees were going to be taken down. um and if you know how many and basically replanting of um

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those those same trees. Um so that was one thing that came up and I don't think we got an answer about that but I actually could be wrong if you guys had sent something over. Um, and then for me just looking at it, I

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guess I understand that the septic has to be as far away from the well as possible. >> Um, but if there was any potential way to move some of the septic,

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where' it go? Just jumped. >> Oh, there we go. move the septic to the north away from, you know, the wetland and a little bit more out of the 50. And then also all the grading that's happening >> in the 50. Um,

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I don't know. I feel like if is that all really necessary to to get the house where it where it's at? Um, you know, is the house to get the house in there? Are you doing a lot of uh excavating down of because it's sort

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of a hillside and if I know you have the retaining wall there to kind of hold back the hillside is is how much soil's coming out I guess to to put the house in there. Uh those are those are some of my questions. And then my last one is does the driveway have to be paved?

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Could you could you use gravel or forest pavement or something like that? >> Yeah. So, um, great points and I, you know, we do have, so I'll start with the plantings. So, we do have some proposed new, um, plantings

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being, um, proposed kind of along the southern and northern side. And, you know, the disturbance to the tree line is kept at a minimum just to be able to get the grading to work out. Um, as far

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as how many trees are going to be cut down and replacing kind of in kind, you know, I think we're proposing to add trees where possible. I just don't think, you know, with the development, you know, we can't we can't replant the

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same number um of trees on the site. Um I think you know if you had another area in mind of you know plantings offsite that might work but um it's just you know to get the house in the retaining

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wall in the grading the septic system. Um we're kind of showing the number of plantings that would accommodate that development. I'm not sure if Ryan um I don't know

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what your conversation was with Ryan. Um were you looking for something other than what we're showing as far as plantings go? I think one thing was just to actually just know the number actually of trees

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the the number and and size because you know which what trees are you taking down that that are 24 inch diameter versus what trees are you taking down that are only 8 inch diameter. I thought he might have said he was gonna >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. I thought maybe he was going to flag them or something. Um whoever else was on the site visit. Do you guys remember if he said he would actually >> put flagging on them so we could see them? >> Yeah, I thought there was an estimate of like eight trees or something and but he

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was going to flag them right after the the visit. I I thought >> Okay. And I can follow up with him. He might have done that. Um I haven't been to the site myself. Um I don't know. Um you know, like I said, I can follow up with him and just check on that.

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>> Um Okay. And then as far as the location of the septic system, so we're kind of, you know, battling a couple different constraints due to the asbuilt conditions. Um, one is the setbacks from

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the property line. So, um, we don't go closer than 10 feet from the property line. That's kind of just a, um, you know, a buffer. And then we also are trying to maintain you know an an adequate setback to the well and we're

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already seeking a variance for that. Um we meet it with the septic tank itself but unfortunately we don't meet it with the um the leeching field. So we had to request for a variance. So to move it to

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the north, um I mean we're pretty much you know almost at that setback to the property line as is. There might be a foot or two that we can you know shift it. Um but there's still going to be a portion of that within within the 50.

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Um, and then as far as paving the driveway goes, I think this is more out of caution due to grades. It's a pretty um, you know, steep in that area. And to do

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gravel, um, it, you know, wear and tear, we want to make sure we're maintaining a certain depth above the septic system so that, you know, we're not adversely impacting anything. And also, you know, with winters and plowing and, you know,

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over time the the gravel kind of gets rudded and we would want to make sure that we maintain that required, you know, separation. Um, I don't know if there's, you know, another like I'm just thinking about

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like a geo grid, but that's also going to implement some some concerns. Um, as far as the driveway goes, um, yeah, I think paving is is the safest

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bet just because we have to go over that septic system and this the the grades are so steep in that area. Um, and then I think your last one was regarding the grading. Um, you know, anything we really do is going

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to require some level of regrading. Um, we are installing that retaining wall to try to, you know, hold back some of it. And then we have some grading along the southern side there. Um,

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as far as reducing the the amount of grading, I mean, we we've located the septic system so that we can reduce grading. If we located it to the northern side of the house, it would have been a significantly more. Um,

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I'm not sure. I mean, just based on you could see it's a it's a three 3 one 4 one 2 one in some areas slope. that's existing. So, um we kind of tried to minimize grading to the extent

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practicable um to get the house in. we can implement, you know, maybe a double erosion control like measure along the southern side there so that we can, you know, we have the silt fence, but we can

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add some maybe um like a double barrier like a hay um or a erosion control log with the silt fence. we can try to do some additional erosion control measures if that's kind of a concern. But,

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uh, this is kind of where we ended up at. Um, just, uh, speaking of the erosion control is in the slope towards South Laurel Drive. I know it's hard to put erosion control across, you know, a driveway when you're

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going to be coming in and out of it. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> but I feel like the way it's set up, if you've got a lot of exposed soil and have rainstorm, a lot of sediment might end up going down to South Laurel Drive. >> Sure. Yeah. No, that's a that's a

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definite um concern and and a good comment. We can kind of maybe create like more of a construction entrance and um wrap the silt fence around so that you kind of have like a more narrower opening to you know where the

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construction entrance is like maybe you know 15 foot wide opening or something so that you're catching most of that sediment that's coming down the hill there if that >> Yeah, you could do some kind of a little trench. trench kind of thing also with

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where the driveway is. But yeah, I would definitely wrap the erosion control as tight as you can. >> Yeah. >> Um and think about something you can put there that's like a temporary, you know, when you leave the site for the weekend kind of a thing.

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>> Oh, yeah. Yep. >> Yeah. We can um yeah, we can definitely put something like a means and methods like you know if if during the weekend if they're not going to be working on site um they can kind of install like a temporary um berm or you know put in a

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silt fence when they're not you know on the site for a couple of days or something like that. We can we can add that to our plan. Yep. >> All right. I see one spot where a tree could go. Right where it says lot A41 kind of just

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east of the septic >> down here like along the hillside. Sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe like a medium to smaller tree. We just don't want to get too close to that septic tank there. Mhm. And it does look like there's room

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on the north, you know, like north of again the Leech Field and a little up the hill towards I don't know. There's some space for more trees >> over here. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah, we can fill it in maybe with

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some like smaller species of trees like um is there anything that you had in mind as far as species goes? >> Um I guess it would sort of what's on the site right now? I mean that's upland area. So

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>> I like to always replace with what is and again that comes down to like what you guys are if we could get a list of the trees that are being taken down that would be helpful. >> Okay. All right. Okay, I'll follow up with Ryan um and see, you know, what he's got with respect to that. See if he

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flagged it up like you guys had discussed. Again, I apologize. I just I'm filling in for him tonight and I don't know if he did that or not. >> That's fine. No worries. No problem. All right, sounds good. I will jot that down.

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>> Do other folks have questions? I I did um uh in terms of the roads uh is it possible to and I'm not sure how to phrase this um but uh is it possible to

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have the road condition noted before a project start and then make sure that it's in that same condition once the project is finished because um the heavy truck traffic that comes down these

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roads for construction. Um it it really does change the the the shape of the road and then it it would be obviously well you'll have the silt fences in but um

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you could be leaving you know ditches and things like that that then drain into the lake again. And um having looked at the lake on that side and other areas, you know, since the lake is

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um uh you know that is down, the water levels have been down. Um it is amazing how much is and Bob can attest to this too, but how much goes into the lake and that is um an area where there hasn't

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been construction. Um to my knowledge in many years um uh I think the Grip Coast did do some work on their home. Um but uh before that uh I don't think that there's been really any kind of truck

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traffic to this level as would be coming down. So I don't know how to phrase that. Um but uh it would be something that I think would be important to look at at to document again what the road looks like before it starts and make sure it's returned to

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that at the end so that so that there isn't additional silt that goes into the lake. I think that's good. I think we can make that a condition in the order of conditions that the you know photographs really we can have the contractor take photos before and after and and have it

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be one of the requirements that the road is is the way it was prior to. And then I guess the other question I had too was that with this retaining wall, would that bring additional

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would that funnel or you know push additional waters into that um that little pond that's I don't know if I would call it a pond but that wetlands area that has water in it I guess um

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that is to the south of the property that it buffers that property. I don't even know who owns that property, but it's so close. Um, >> you're saying by the construction of this retaining wall, you think there

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would be excess and runoff going towards the >> Would that change the runoff? Yeah, that's my question. I I I don't necessarily know that, but um I guess I would just like to know if that if that's something you guys have thought about.

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>> I'd like to interject. Um, Alexandria Winkllor, I own that property, but I I'll wait for my turn to speak on that. >> Oh, okay. Ria, >> yeah, I think we have some um we have perk tests. I think we have some soil logs. So, um we can certainly check to

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see, you know, what groundwater looks like. And um I'm sure that was a thought process that went into the design. I didn't personally do the design, so um I didn't have that thought just because I didn't do it. Um but I'm sure that it it, you know, was thought about and I

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can certainly um get back to you on that. >> Great. Um Mayor, if you're done, Bob's got his hand up. >> Sure. Um, Rebecca, could you use your cursor to show how you foresee water

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flowing off of the lot? >> Yeah, sure. So, I guess from starting from the southern side of the building, it's kind of like swailed to the to run down the the driveway. Um, and then from the northern side, it's kind of

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following this trajectory here and then again kind of like swailing towards the south Laurel Drive. So, um, if it functions the way it's designed, you would have, uh, open open water draining directly to Laurel Drive.

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>> Well, it would be over, you know, grass areas or in the case of the driveway, you know, down the driveway. >> Uh, and and what um where does water currently go off of this lot? >> Same location. We're not changing. If

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you can see, it's it's kind of hard the existing topography in the back here, um, which is represented by these dashed lines and they all it all flows towards South Laurel Drive. >> All right. >> It doesn't start turning towards the

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wetlands until you get to this point here and then it starts kind of going towards the wetlands. Yeah, they've been increasing um as mayor alluded to the increasing interest

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in um preventing uh erosion of roadways into the pond and and so on. Um do you foresee the um so so you've increased the size of the house? Uh there's a paved driveways opposed

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opposed to a a gravel driveway now. Is that correct? >> Yes. Uh, actually, I don't think I don't know if there was a driveway. Maybe Linda can chime in. Um, I asked Ryan and it it sounded like there wasn't much of a driveway there to begin with.

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>> Hey guys, Chad Chad here. Can I chime in real quick? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, yeah, there's there's a little bit of a driveway there. Um, not much. Kind of a grally, sandy, dirty driveway. Um, that you know, it is all kind of most of the water, like you said, ends up in the

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in the street. But I guess the only other thing I had to point out is that um our house is directly across the street. We use that driveway. So keeping the the road the street in um good condition is definitely of key importance to us living directly across

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from that driveway and using that road. We'd want to ensure that the street would be in good shape always. >> Thank you. Uh question for the applicants engineer. The um uh is the would the increase in pvious surface the

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enlarged house and the um uh the paved driveway would that increase um water loading onto Laurel? >> Um I mean what's there? So you're turning imperous or pvious area to

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imperous um more than what's there currently. So, yes, there will be a a slight increase. Um, however, it's not going to be anything, you know, drastic. It's there's the existing house that's there now. Um, we're going to be putting

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a new one, demolishing the existing, and then the driveway will, you know, add a little bit, but, um, it won't be of magnitude of like, you know, a monsoon or something coming down the hill. Um but you know it it there will be an

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increase. Yes. >> Um I have two more questions and and to thank you for your patience. The um the septic system is is less than 35 ft away from the wetland. >> Is it dimensioned here? It says 33.7.

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>> Um and uh have you been through the um you've been through the uh uh board of health, correct? Yes, we got approval last week. >> Okay. Um Okay. Well, that's I'm I'm glad glad

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they approved that. Um the um uh is the lot a um uh a compliant lot? Is it uh um does it is it is it um gosh, what's it called? Um,

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Lake Whway is filled filled with lots that are small for for the the town's uh zoning >> conforming. Yeah. >> Pre-existing non-conforming. Yeah, it was pre-existing non-conforming just due to setbacks with where the existing building is, but the new building will

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be conformance. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, so so it it would be non-conforming this this project. Correct. And do you have a a have you been to the um DBA regarding it?

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>> No. So we we have spoken with um the various um depart town departments to discuss this matter and currently the existing house is pre-existing non-conforming. However, the new house will be in conformance. So there's no

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need to request for a variance >> in um uh and the the lot itself is is conforming >> with this proposed house? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. All right. Um we uh and you're you're comfortable that that's the case that this project is uh fully conforming? Yes, we've submitted um the plans and we've submitted all the specs to um let

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me see, I actually have the email here, the zoning enforcement coordinator, um Paul payer. Um so we've been working directly, you know, with him and um ensuring that we're going through the proper channels to, you know, if based

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on variances and setbacks. that the way that it's laid out here is in conformance and he has um he has sent an email stating that we do not need to request for any variances. >> Okay. Yeah. Should it be So that sounds

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fine. Should it be a non-conforming lot? Um, and should it require uh ZBA action, this commission can't issue a u a permit an sorry order of conditions until um

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that has been done. So what you're saying is it it will be conforming and it doesn't require that uh that permit. >> Correct. Yep. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I guess um uh Madame Chair, I guess I the um runoff

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to roadways is such a hot button. Um that would be the only thing that really gives me pause on this is that um the uh it appears that the um uh impervious surface is more than doubled related to

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this new project the the the house and the extensive driveway that I am worried about the water uh loading up on South Laurel. That's really my only comment and I appreciate your your replies, Rebecca.

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>> Thank you. >> Um, in in regard to that, so the western property boundary is pretty far from Laurel Drive. So that whole bottom section of the driveway is

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is that on town property? >> Yes. >> Is that within the right of way? Yep. >> Okay. Okay. And do you need to get town permission to install like a paved driveway on the right of way or no?

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>> Um I mean with any other I guess single >> seems like a lot. >> Yeah. I I mean we could I think right now the driveway width is 20 ft. Um, so

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maybe we could narrow it where it, you know, meets up with South Laurel Drive for a stretch, kind of like bottleneck it to reduce the amount of um, pavement that's being proposed. Um,

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it's just, you know, we also have to make sure that the feasibility of maneuvering to the site and um, you know, getting cars in there um, also works out. So, um, we can certainly look into that, um, to maybe see if we can,

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you know, kind of meet in the middle and reduce some of the the proposed per. >> So, wait, did you did you say make the bottom of it? What did how did you describe that? >> Well, I'm just saying like because right now the width of the uh pave proposed

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pave driveway is 20 feet. Um, so maybe we can kind of, you know, reduce it down where the right of way is and then kind of come come out so we're reducing it a little bit. Um, uh, just >> what about making the part of the

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driveway that's not over the septic um, gravel or that? That way if all this water is coming off the site and heading down that way, gravel at the bottom near Laurel Drive would allow for infiltration. And also the the area

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there that doesn't have driveway on it that is in town on in the rightway also would be a nice spot for some trees or replanting >> that that's you know to the north and south of the driveway. >> Yeah, that's a that's an interesting concept and you know we can certainly um

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look into that. That might be a good kind of meet in the middle thing where we can, you know, maybe slow some of that runoff um down that's coming down the the slope there and um kind of transition from like a, you know, gravel to pavement within the the right of way,

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not necessarily at the street. >> Yeah, seems possibly doable. >> Mayor has her hand up. Yes. >> Yeah. >> I had a question and maybe the Grip Coast can answer this because South Laurel is a little bit different because it's privately owned. It's not

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technically part of the um Lake Wyola Association and um I I think Linda knows the woman who owns it from New Jersey or and that um and but the the other thing that I

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had two other questions or just points too is that I know that um a lot of these roads having the trees have not been the roads the road width has not been maintained. Um and that's also

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important to make sure that um that uh um that it is maintained because over the years there's so many trees that um you know the the roads are not the width that they're supposed to be based on. And there's a there's there's maps out

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there that show the what the original map roads are supposed to be in terms of the width. But um at the lake, but um the that was one question one point. But the other question I had is that when

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the um erosion report was submitted, I can't remember whether South Laurel was part of that. And I guess that's my question. Is that something that Rebecca um and the um the the associates could

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look at in terms of whether that is part of uh um any kind of plans? Um yeah, we can certainly um you know reach out to the town and see what is there as far as um you know you I think you

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mentioned there was some erosion reports that were done for the surrounding roads. There's a there's a Lake Wyola sort of like erosion task force that that has done some work putting documents

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together with areas where there's erosion. Um yeah, Bob is on that committee, right Bob? >> Yes, I am. And there there is interest in um

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keeping water off of off of the uh the roadways if possible. >> I think the Grios have their hands up. Yes. >> Couple super quick points I guess I'll add. First of all, within reason, we have every interest in maintaining the

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forest feel um of of the lot. You know, we don't plan on clearcutting it. We're open to doing any plantings as needed. We're also super open to trying to help maintain the road width as requested. Um, you know, glad glad to do that and

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and we help maintain that road. You know, we've we've spread gravel up there. We've helped grade it. Um, so we have every interest in, you know, trying to reduce any erosion and and because ultimately it's a private road. It's up to us to maintain. So, we want to do what's right. I just had a a simple

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question. And I don't know if it might make sense to pitch or ever so slightly grade the driveway um to the to the south. That's kind of where a lot of the runoff ends up anyways. Um you know, and that might help encourage a little less

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towards the road and a little bit more to the south. I don't know if that might make sense. >> Yeah. Then it's heading more into the wetlands. >> Yeah. I was just going to say I think I think that idea of kind of having within the right of way having like a gravel

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transition from the paved um driveway to you know South Laurel Drive um I think you know will definitely help kind of slow some of that runoff down um acting kind of like a level spreader almost. Um

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so I think that would you know that's a good solution that we should kind of you know look into and um you know submit you know a detail kind of showing you what our plan is for that.

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>> All right I think the group co have a comment. Yes. >> Just one other thing looking at this diagram. Um, for those who haven't walked the property, this property has been neglected for quite a few years and we have no interest in clear cutting. As

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Chad said, um, where it looks like we have to replant trees, there are a lot of trees still in there that are never going to be touched. We're just going to leave that alone. The only area that we would want, we're right across the street, so we can use the property across the street as our playground. We

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don't need it here. Um, the only reason there's a a retaining wall behind to the north and the the east of the property is so that we would have a way to get around the building rather than having to drive on a slant

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all the time. And um, if we wanted to put a grill on the back there, but we're not we're not really opening up a big area there where it shows that there are trees replanted. There are a lot of trees already in there that are never going to be touched.

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Um, the whole property is, and you can ask Ria, she owns the property around it. It's basically a forest. So, the house is in the middle of a forest and the number of trees will take down. A few need to be taken down because they're already encroaching power lines and things like that. And some of them

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are already dead. Um, especially down near the road itself, there are a lot of of uh saplings that have grown up there because, as Chad was saying, the driveway really has only been partially maintained. So, I think that the concern

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for runoff might be more minimal than we expect. Yes, we we really weren't in favor of a p paved driveway, but because of the septic system and its location, we have to pave over that. But anywhere else we

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can put um whether we put gravel on the sides of the of the driveway or put more plantings on the sides of the driveway, >> tougher, like they said at the bottom. >> Yeah, we're game for we're game for all of that. >> Yeah, thanks for adding that, Linda. And

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I think um you know once once those trees that do need to be demolished are are flagged and it's a little bit more visible as to you know how many are going to be demolished. Um if we you know if we can't fit them on the

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property but it does look like we'll be able to get you know quite a few. Um if you I think you mentioned there might have been eight or so that might need to be um cut down. So right now we have five. We kind of discussed maybe two other areas for some and then like they

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said if if you're okay with planting if one or two don't fit planting them on their other property on the other side there. Um you know I think there's definitely a viable solution with that. >> Great. That all sounds good. Um any

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other commissioners have any comments? All right, then. Are there any um comments from the public? I can't really >> I'd like to speak, Ria, but um I can't raise my hand, so whenever uh it's my turn, please let me know.

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>> Um why don't you go ahead? I see anybody else. >> I appreciate that. Should I begin now? >> Yeah, I Yep. Go right ahead. >> Okay, great. Um so my full name is Alexandria. I own as Linda mentioned the

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property around that and uh both my property and the grip codes lot. It functions as a transition point between the upland drainage and that wetland system below which is the tail end of Ames Brook. So it crosses the from Ames

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Pond goes down through that and that's where it fans out before it goes into the lake. So, I'm not opposed to the existing home being reconstructed on the lot. My concern is the proposed relocation and expansion uphill that

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really appears to increase disturbance in the area where that drainage enters the site. And it's not fully clearly clear to me even in this conversation here on how that runoff or upland drainage is being managed long term. I

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see that it's being addressed during construction, but I expect that everyone involved want to see a clear demonstration of the project won't concentrate or accelerate runoff. Currently, there are no paved driveways

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um and most of Wendell Road and certainly South Laurel. In fact, the main road there is is uh dirt, too. and that runoff on the tar. Uh my my you know uh expectation is that that is

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going to be going into that Ames Brook wetland area there and onto the road. So I'm not saying that the project can't work, but I do think that the commission needs a clearer understanding of how water is moving through the site before making a decision. And I'm wondering

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whether maintaining the existing building location was considered as a lower impact alternative. Oh, I think you're muted, Rebecca. We can't hear you. I can Can you hear me now?

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>> Yes, I I can hear you. Yeah. >> Sorry about that. Um through the chair, if I may just um add a couple of points. Okay. So, um again, depending on where groundwater is, and I I you know, I don't have the logs with handy right

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now, but I can certainly take a look. Um usually you have you know foundation drains associated with any sort of structure. So um you know the the retaining wall it's not going to be a um you know solid barrier preventing water

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from going to where it needs to go. There's going to be an outlet somewhere. Um and it's going to go in the same direction as I kind of showed illustrated here as it was going before. Yes, there will be um some increase due

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to the increase in in a previous area. However, we just talked about some ways to kind of, you know, slow that down. Um I think the Grios have, you know, mentioned that they're equally as, you know, diligent and concerned about the

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conditions of the the existing drive as um the neighbors are. They live there too already. So, um, you know, if there were any issues, um, it's, you know, kind of sounds like they would fix them and and take care of them. Um, I think

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by, you know, transitioning from that paved to gravel, I think that will help out a lot as far as the, um, velocity of the runoff. Um, unfortunately the the the

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cisptic system is where it is because of the lock constraints. Um, if there was a better spot for it, um, we would have put it there, but everything else is uphill. You know, we're kind of fighting grades here. Um, and unfortunately due

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to the location where it's at, as I mentioned before, it it doesn't make sense to put a gravel driveway over a septic system. um just due to the you know ruting the grades in that area, the wear and tear.

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Um we really need some hard packed surface over the the um septic system. So I don't know how the other lots are arranged. I don't know if drives go over septic systems or whatnot, but um this is kind of a unique situation. Um so I

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think we're just trying to do the best with what we have. Um, I think they're, you know, share the same concerns and, you know, if there are any sort of issues after the fact or during construction, um, it sounds like the GRI

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codes would be more than willing to work with, you know, the neighbors and ensuring that that South Floral Drive is, you know, remains um, in the condition that it's in today or if not better.

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I'm I'm wondering if it was um uh considered the existing building location, which would be a much lower impact for that entire area there. That is a steep slope and right on the edge of the wetlands. I understand there was a site visit uh with the conservation

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commission, so I'm sure everyone on board was able to see just how close to the wetland that is. >> Yeah, I So, the existing house is nonconforming. So the relocation of the proposed house kind of just rotates it

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um and and brings it into conformance. Um we also had to relocate it to meet the proper setbacks to the proposed septic system. So as you can see you know right now where the septic system is being proposed overlaps the existing

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house. Um, so, you know, it was, you know, we we did look at it and I don't know, um, Linda or, you know, if any of the other Grip codes want to chime in on, you know, kind of the history and the, you know, different alternatives that were discussed. But, um, this is

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kind of, you know, the best case scenario for any sort of, you know, renovations and replacement of existing features such as the septic system. the well, the house. Um, and given the site

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constraints, >> I just have one more question for you, Rebecca. Thank you so much for your time. >> Um, the size of the septic, is that because the house is being built and it's so much larger than the pre-existing home that is there.

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>> The septic system is based on the current Massachusetts regulations and the number of bedrooms. So, there's only the I think the floor plans show one bedroom. Is that right, Linda? Or >> no, that was just a temporary floor plan.

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>> And um >> they uh we'd like at least two, but basically we were told we had to to u build it for three because that's what they require in Massachusetts. So we went with that. >> The three-bedroom minimum. Yep. Okay. So

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yeah. So, the septic system is based on the um you know minimum Massachusetts standards and obviously the house that was there before did not meet those standards. >> All right. Any other uh comments from the public? Uh Noren, you have your hand up.

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>> Yes. Hi. Um my name is Noren Peas. I live at the other end of uh South Laurel Drive uh number 19 and um I haven't had a chance to talk to the Greco yet

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and I'm happy to be here to talk to uh the Concom tonight. Um I'm concerned a little bit about all the big equipment that's going to be coming down South Laurel Drive, which I think you all know is a very steep hill. We have uh three BMS I think on the hill and I'm just

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worried about the integrity of that section of the road and the runoff that already comes down that hill through the coats property which is paved and into the um into the lake. So, I'm I'm wondering if there are any sorts of

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things we can think about to help uh preserve the integrity of the rest of that hillside and that road uh coming down to the flatter part of uh South Laurel Drive and and and try and prevent, you know, any additional runoff

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as a result of, you know, big trucks and equipment, you know, coming down when this project is implemented. Yeah, I I guess I can chime in through the chair. Um, >> yeah. >> So, I think that you know the the condition that was mentioned earlier

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about maybe documenting the you know as asis condition of South Laurel Drive and um ensuring that you know it stays asis um you know might satisfy that. Um, but I I think the Grip Co are kind of

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welcome to any suggestions. I think, like I said, it sounds like they're as equally um, you know, concerned and um, you know, have interest in maintaining the road as much as, you know, all the

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other neighbors do. >> May I just say one more historical piece here? Um, and then I I'll step away. Uh, Kcom might not know, but uh, North Laurel Drive had a very serious flooding situation that came down that hill and

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flooded where Tom and Birda is now on the lake. In fact, that little red cabin that was there that they rebuilt was flooded due to the water. So, this is part of my concern for the erosion piece is that we say, okay, monsoon might not

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happen, but we've already seen the the result of that. And uh that was uh yes uh Tom and uh Berda who you may know right down there on the lake. Thank you for your time. >> All right. Um

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Jen Malin has her hand up. >> Hi. Can Can you hear me? >> Yep. >> Okay, great. So we are uh neighbors uh when we're at 19 South Florida. We're at 21 South Laurel Drive. Um, and I am

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excited to welcome, you know, a revamp um to bring a building into uh correlation with what needs to be done and to bring it alive again um at that end of South Laurel Drive. Um, as you may or may not know, we are at the

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bottom of the hill at South Laurel Drive as you come down. So, we have the paved driveway that goes down in, you know, into our driveway. So, we take the brunt of the um of the water that comes down the hill there along with Norine uh over

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on 19. Um so, I I certainly welcome the new construction. Um it and that's not a problem. I and the Grios are amazing. So I know that they'll work with us just to ensure that we maintain that integrity

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of the street that road uh there um to avoid any further uh water issues for us in in our specific area. um you know with with the the things that we fight. Um so that that is all I have and that's

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the only concern is that we just make sure we work uh you know together as a neighborhood to to maintain um the the water coming down with as the road changes with with the heavy equipment which is expected um as long as we just

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keep on top of that. Um that that's all I would appreciate. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Great. The grip goes, >> I just want to chime in. You know, we care about that road. We drive that road. And you know, we care about our neighbors, Carol and Norine, and and and

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um Jen and and you guys. And you know, we're we're glad to maintain those swailes, whatever we need to do. If they need a little bit of love, you know, at the end of all this, then of course, we'll we'll touch them up. Also, we're not planning on bringing a ton of fill in or a ton of fill out. I don't expect

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a tremendous amount of heavy truck traffic. You know, of course, sure, we're going to have, you know, some some excavators for the septic work and and um you know, pickup trucks for the carpenters and whatever, but I we're not bringing triacles of of tons of material

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in and out. So, I would hope that it would have a minimal impact, but whatever there is, you know, you know us, we drive that road. We'll we'll make sure it's all set. >> Absolutely. again. And my only concern was that during the construction that we kind of try to to keep face cuz as we've

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seen the rain come and go and the winter come and go. Um I don't know what the rain is proposed for the summer yet, but we just want to if it starts to get out of line during construction to visit it at that point, which I am sure you will do. And I just wanted to express that on

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this meeting. I'm, you know, excited to see uh breath of life brought into that specific area. Um, and we welcome that. It just, uh, want to bring our concern up since we take the brunt of the bottom. Thank you guys so much.

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>> All right. Um, any more? Oh, Tom Seaffort. >> Thank you, Madame Chair. Um, thanks for having this hearing. Um, I have kind of a list of comments and questions. So, if it's okay, I might just read them and um

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if somebody who knows an answer or response might want to take a note, please. I think that might be quicker because I I want to make it quick if possible. Um and I do have a few repeats of things. Um but some are new. Um I was wondering if we're allowed to ask the applicant or know how the house will be

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used, if it will be a rental or a short-term rental or any sort of idea of the number of uh vehicles or people associated with it. um whether there'll be a garage. I thought I saw a garage in the narrative and um that just brings up

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the question as well of um I didn't see square footage of the house or square footage of the driveway on the plans or the narrative and that would have been really helpful as a member of the public for the hearing. So, I just wanted to add that. I'm kind of learning things tonight that I wished were in the um in

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the application materials, but if I missed them, please forgive me. Um the retaining wall does cause me some concern about water channeling both towards the south into the wetlands and also towards the west onto a small

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patient small portion of land that I own that it looks like the retaining wall might channel water towards. And I just wanted to know if that and also considering the paved driveway might lead to a question of could there be some sort of uh what they call best management practices to put maybe along

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the sides or corners of places to help capture maybe water gardens or depressions or something to help with any of the water that might be coming away from the driveway or the retaining wall. um the road condition. I I just want to underscore that I also do

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believe that that really needs to be a condition that South Laurel stays at least as good as it is now. Um from top to bottom, please if that could be a condition. Uh I do want to offer the um question. I think it was kind of

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mentioned before. Uh was it a reasonable option to consider leaving the house where it is um as opposed to moving it, adding the impervious driveway and the larger footprint, the removal of trees and the grading? Is that um better than

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leaving it where it is now and dealing with things that would have had to be dealt with as such. Um it would be great to have that list of trees. That was another thing that I wished I could have found in the application materials that I didn't. Um, and I didn't know that was a deck on the

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house, and I'm sorry if I missed that in the application materials, but I didn't find it labeled as such. And it was just another example of details I wished we could have had before the hearing. Um, I would like to know what the variance for the well is and um eventually if that's

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been solved yet and um if possible if it's allowed to have a copy of that email with uh Paul from Furkcog uh forget his last name already

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but he's um kind of new there. Paul Per payer um about the conformance issue and kind of a recommendation going back to the storm water concerns. If I'm not mistaken, GZA is in the process now of doing a hydraulics and hydrarology study

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for the area that would include like the whole Lake Wyola wershed and the Laurel drives are in the um final report and in the uh study realm. So, I don't know if it's a conditionable thing, but maybe somehow to just make sure that there's

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communication with that H&H study, um, since this seems to be a critical area for that, especially where it kind of meets the the source of the lake there at the Ames area. Um, thank you. And that's everything I've written down here. I

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really appreciate that. Um, oh, and please, sorry, the last thing just um good notice to neighbors please about when um people will be coming on their land or not during the process would be appreciated. >> Thank you very much.

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>> Rebecca, did you want to reply to some of those? Some of them, I think, were repeats of things we talked about, but there were some new things in there. Yeah. I mean, as far as the um the use, it's a single family home. I mean, I you

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know, I don't I don't know if the Grios want to add any more to that, but that's what it's planned on being. >> No, we don't need to add any more to that. It's planned to be a single family home. Thank you. >> Yep. No problem. Um we can certainly this So, the square footage of the house

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is currently 1,64 square feet. So, you know, it's a pretty modest size for a single family home. Um, the list of trees, you know, we talked about channeling from the retaining

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wall. Um, again, we're swailing the water kind of on either side of the properties to direct it towards the south Laurel Drive. um we can add, you know, a detail about, you know, the how the the footing drain is going to work

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if if um you know, that helps. But, um I think everything else was kind of discussed already. >> All right. Um any more comments? >> Is there a garage in the plan?

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I think there is a plan for a garage. Yep. >> Was that on the diagram or >> um I mean it's part of the footprint of the house. >> Okay. Thank you. That helps.

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>> All right. Is is that answer your questions, Tom? >> Um thank you. And yes, some of them were just repeats and comments as well. Um, thank you. >> Okay.

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All right. I see no more hands up. Um, >> sorry. There is that one about um whether that email from Paul Perry is available or is that something I should just make my own request for? >> Um, I'll leave that up to the grip codes. Um,

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I mean it's you can certainly reach out to um him yourself, but if you know they would like me to share correspondence um regarding the project, I'll leave that up to them. >> Okay. Thank you. And um yeah, Madam

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Chair, I guess I didn't um underscore a desire for the concom to consider continuing the hearing, not closing it tonight um if possible. I feel as though I might have more questions too as I learn more. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, I think there's there's some

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definitely uh changes that are going to be made to the plan based on this discussion. So, we will be continuing to our next meeting. Um but I guess I just kind of wanted Oh, sorry. What did you say, Rebecca? No, I just said we'll we'll be prepared to address all the um

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you know comments that we had here tonight and revise the plans as we discuss so that you know next meeting we'll be um we'll be good to have you know further discussion if needed. >> Okay. Yeah. I just kind of wanted to summarize too what I guess we're looking

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for so you are so you're clear with that. Um it sounds like we're interested in some revision potentially to the driveway having it be gravel sort of um a pervious on the bottom. We're interested definitely in the trees and a

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list of the trees and if they are flagged we might try to plan another site visit between now and the 28th just for any Hong Kong members that want to see those the trees. Um, I think what would be helpful on the plan is to

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actually show where drainage goes to maybe show where if you are putting a footing drain in, where it discharges. Um, and then it sounded like you're you're talking swailes coming down the sides. So even just arrows on the site plan showing like where the water you

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think the water's going to go from the design and if those swailes are going to be vegetated, you know, as Tom was mentioning like a rain garden. Even if you just call it a vegetated swale, that's good to know um on the plan. Um

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what else did we want to I'm probably missing some things. That's what came to mind. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Great. >> We will we will uh we'll get those on the plan and be prepared for you said that mentioned the 28th. Is that the

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next meeting? >> That's our next meeting. Yeah. Two weeks from today. >> And we'll reach out to you regarding the flagging too so that hopefully we can arrange for another site visit before then. >> Sounds great. Bob has his hand up. Yep. Bob.

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>> Yeah. I just wanted to get the um uh the commission's pulse on uh perhaps having a a engineering peer reviewer take a look at the water that will be coming off of the site. >> I feel like I'd rather see the revised plan that they're going to put together

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before I decide that or not. Um you know, it's just a single family home. pretty straightforward in terms of drainage, I think. Um, but I'm open to hear what other commissioners think.

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>> Scott, mayor, Michael, what are your thoughts? >> Like to see the revised plans. Um um I I guess I'm concerned about the overall

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the overall condition of the roads in general. I think I think the runoff is partially being addressed by by the gravel and and the slope of it. But yeah, I it is it's very very close to

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that that um wetlands area. Um and uh it would be good to um kind of get another overall look at the property with a site visit. Um but I think again I think coming back

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with revised plans, types of trees, um I think that's important. Yeah, I guess for my part I I too do my interest is in uh minimizing the impact to the wetland

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there. It's awfully close. It you know we've heard many of the impacts discussed here tonight um with increasing the impervious surface area and um just the overall site

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disturbance in the area. Um, so, uh, maybe we'll learn more at the next, uh, meeting with a revised plan. So, that seems like a good next step to me. >> Yeah, I think seeing a revised plan and if possible to somehow quantify the

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change in permeable area on the property would be interesting to see. Um, because it seems like a lot, but um, maybe it's not that much. You know, one other thought would be where does the roof run off? Where's the roof runoff proposed right now? And if

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it's if it's just sort of uh sheet flow off, you know, gutters are gutters proposed. Um, and where's that? And and is is there a potential for maybe a a drywall kind of thing to at least collect that runoff

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so it's not adding to the problem. >> Okay. Yeah, we can show where the roof runoff discharges to and um you know kind of have a a plan for that at the next meeting.

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>> Great. >> Right. That's a lot. So good. Thank you so much. And um Yep. So you're happy with the you accept continuing to the 28th, right? The applicant. >> Wonderful. All right. So, I need a

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motion to continue the um public hearing until May 28th. >> Move. >> Second. >> All right. Roll call. Khan. >> Hi. >> Douglas. >> Hi, >> Fox.

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>> I >> and Domy McDuffy. >> I. >> And Wilson. I Great. So, we will see you at 7:15 on uh that's didn't say that in the motion, but I think we're going with 7:15 on the 28th.

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>> Okay, sounds good. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. >> Thank you for the presentation. It was great. >> Thank you. >> Thanks to the Grim Co. Um All right. Next on the agenda is um a report from Penny regarding um the

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status of reveation on the library parcel. Hi everybody. >> Hi Penny. >> So um Mayor and Beth were out I guess it's been a couple weeks now and looked

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at the site and I think we all agree that things are growing. Um, and that's all good. Um, there's a lot more work to be done and I want to talk with you about some of that. Um, just so everyone knows,

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um, the library construction project finished in December, um, very late in the season. A lot of landscaping was done, um, late October into November, right up until the beginning of December. I think

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they were still planting trees. The landscape contractor planted about half of the trees and shrubs that are going to go onto the site. Um those are the ones that are on the west side of the site, which are um we decided

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we didn't want to mess up all the work that they had done, grading everything and seeding everything. So, we had them put those trees and shrubs in before that work was done. and the town retained um the obligation of putting in

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an additional 41 trees and 71 shrubs as per the order of conditions. And those are all in front of the building um along the road um both and the drive and on the um east side of the driveway. So,

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there's still a lot of work to do. Um, and that will proceed over the course of the spring. And um, I think we know we have to have those in by the let's see, the order of conditions was issued in February of 2024. So, we

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have to have everything in by the end of this growing season. So, um, we're very much aware of that. It's a lot of work to do still. Um, I don't know if people have questions about that portion of things at this point. Mostly what I want

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to talk with you about is the meadow, but I'm happy to entertain questions about um the the site that was within the limit of work for the building itself. Any questions? >> Yes, >> I asked mine when we were walking

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around. >> Yeah. you want to share those with the commission? It might be useful. >> Um, well, we looked at we looked at we're looking for areas of any type of erosion. We saw where all the hydro seating had kind of grown in, but you

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know, it's only it's hydro seating. So, it that whole area is is still going to get reseated. If anybody has been walking around and wondering about that, um, let's see. There was the area um that is the outfall for one of the basins that

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we looked at and looked like that needed to just be vacuumed out a little bit. There was some sediment in it. Um the tree plantings that are in look good. I saw the matting holding the is stabilizing the soil in a lot of areas

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where the hydro seed is kind of thin. There's still matting and erosion control. Um, and I thought that all looked that all looked fine. Um, yeah, >> I think you had some concerns about the

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the storm water basin along Lever Road and um to do some more work on that, >> right? That we're not so sure. We think it might have filled in a little bit. So the the size of it may have changed in

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terms of the volume it can hold and and treat. Um and then also the burm that's at the end of it that's really the overflow looked like there was an area that had been damaged and needed to just be rebuilt up. that was that we but

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yeah, we've been meaning to sort of look at the set of plans and do some measurements to see if that basin um still is the the right sizing that it was supposed to be. >> And and I my understanding is the commission will do that and then let us

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know if we need to let the landscape contractor come back and and um adjust things. >> Yes, we'll take a look at that. I'll take a look at that. >> Okay. And Maryanne, I know you're here, too.

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Um, the landscaper, the landscape contractor is coming out sometime in May to assess things, right? Do you have a date for that yet? >> I don't. >> Yeah, it would be great to hear from the commission about what we should pass on to them before

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they come out. Um, if that's possible. So when they come out, what what's what's their first uh thing they're going to do? >> They don't know that they need to look at the storm water basins. Um they're coming out specifically to as I

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understand it, and Maryanne, you can correct me, um if I'm mistaken here, one, they're assessing the viability of the uh woody material that they planted late last fall. Um, they had someone here a month or so ago,

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but nothing had leafed out, so it wasn't really possible to tell whether things made it through the winter. I'm concerned about some of the plants. I think I said to you when we were on the site that um there was some small mammal damage to some of the smaller shrubs um under the

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snow line and um those may have to be replaced. So um and and they're also all of the area that was hydro seated will be reed with um I think they call it a low

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a low grow meadow mix um that that is the what will be the permanent vegetation um in all of those areas where there's the little tiny grass coming up right now. So they still have quite a bit of work to do as well.

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Yeah. Okay, that's good to know. And then they'll be do you think they'll seed and mulch that whole area generally? And >> um I I my if I remember correctly, it was kind of a complicated scheme. I believe that all of that um

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um grass that you see growing there now was meant to be sort of like nursery grass to to um I didn't quite understand it honestly. I'd never heard of doing this before, but the seeding will go over that. And I think that the grass

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that's there now will hold the seed in place and um provide a a good growing site for the grass that the long-term grasses that they'll be putting in. And I'm sorry that I can't explain that.

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>> Yeah. If that if that's going to work, that's >> Yeah. Well, they say it will. We'll see. We'll see. Is that Marian? Is that what you understand as well? That's what I understood from talking with Greg Stimson who's the designer of all of this.

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>> Um, yes. I think that we should have a meeting with Dominic, you and I, and should have a meeting with Dominic and >> um and before the landscapers come out um and make sure that we all have

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um the same understanding. But yes, >> I think that that's a good idea. Okay. So um you know that's where the the um things stand for the work within the

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limit of work area. Um and and um if you don't have more questions about that that piece of things, I'd like to talk with you more about the meadow res restoration that we agreed to

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do um in the um >> notice of intent and I sent I hastily put together a draft of something. I I don't know if it got out in time for all of you to have that.

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I just sent it the beginning of this week. >> Yeah, I got it. >> Okay, >> I saw it, too. Yeah, I read it. >> Um I had a question at EB. Is it uh where is it?

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Um so, we never approved the um landscaping long-term maintenance plan. I know you guys wrote a I thought that you did approve that but what but the piece that we never really

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it well it's complicated because that plan includes both what's within what u what we were talking about before the limit of work where the disturbance was done for the construction site but it all so concerns the meadow and so I

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think um I think there were some sticking points on the meadow part of Yeah, that's why I'm not sure. I know we we approved the invasive plan and moved ahead with that and then I just have this memory that's why and I know I should look it up in the minutes.

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>> No, no, no. I think you know it was so long ago, Beth. >> It was long ago. >> I think you're right. I think we got partway through it and then we just sort of put it aside and um and so as I understand it, the pieces that were

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unresolved were the meadow and >> I think that was why we stopped almost. We were like trying to figure out about the mowing and we just weren't sure and so then we just >> Right. Right. >> I think so. >> So, um I did meet with uh a representative I have to look up the

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name again. the H the Ham H >> Hampshire Con the Franklin Hampshire Conservation District, >> right? Although I have here it's the Hampshire one, but I have to go back and look at my notes from um Heidi again. Anyway,

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um you know, she recommended an annual mowing. Um and I know there was discussion about whether it's better to do it in the fall or the spring. Um, I'm my feeling is partly for

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pragmatic purposes doing it in the fall is going to work better because we're reliant on the highway department to do this and I think they have time to do it in late October, early November. Um, the alternative is to do it in the spring

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after the soil is firm enough that you could get a piece of equipment out there and I'm concerned that that might be after the growing season has started. And so, um, I'd love to hear the commission's

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thought about that. Um, >> yeah, I've always thought I've always been told that, you know, mowing in the fall is the best time to mow. Certainly in the spring, you've got wet soils, which is always a problem getting your equipment in there, but also um you

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know, that is when the vegetation's just starting to come up. And then you get into a season where there's birds nesting and turtles and other crazy things. And then you get to October, November seems to always be the best time if it's an annual MO.

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Is that Scott what you >> Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that the as I recall the the conversation was more about >> I I I don't recall it being, you know, should we mow in the spring or the fall.

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I think fall is what's preferable to any spring mowing. I think the question was, is annual mowing beneficial or necessary to achieve your objectives of what you're trying to do there at the site or is that going to

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be, you know, working counterproductive to some of the things that you're trying to accomplish there with some of the invasive um management and and so I did look through the plan. I think those are my my

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biggest questions were really about you know stated the stated goals and objectives of what you're trying to get you know in terms of you know it doesn't really talk about you know the um the

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reductions in invasives that you're trying to achieve or you know the success of you know or it it talks about incling diversity but um you know what what a success going to be

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look like and if you're going to be deciding on whether or not to mow or to not mow uh to achieve that objective. I think those are what I was hoping to hear more from you Penny or Maryanne in terms of what you heard when you talked

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with the SWCD. I I didn't see in what you sent, you know, it didn't have it had their recommendations for mowing for the establishment, but I didn't see the recommendations for the annual mowing >> that would continue on at infin item.

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And I think those that's what I wanted to hear more about. So those are I think my my questions in a nutshell. Um, well, from what I've researched, an annual mowing is is the most effective. And, you know, I um and from talking

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with the people at the um uh the conservation district, that's what they and their meadow specialist recommended. This is from the point of they weren't looking at it from the point of view of managing invasive

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species. I think they're looking at it from the point of view of managing um a mix of diverse native plants in the field. And I I'm not sure how to recon not sure how to reconcile those two

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things. Um, you know, I know where I live, we have a twoacre field. We have bittersweet in that field. And what we decide decided to do this year is to mow a third of the field

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um every two weeks for this growing season to see if we can manage the um bittersweet. I don't think it's possible for us to accomplish something like that at the the um library site because we just don't have the person power to have

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someone to do that. So um I don't know what you recommend, Scott. I mean I'm not you know I I see your point. It's just it's a >> Yeah, >> it's a conundrum. >> Yeah, for sure. And it's a challenging

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site. Um, I think, you know, if if I were to make any suggestions on the plan, I I think it would be um to allow for some room here for some adaptive

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management that uh instead of, you know, a more prescriptive it's going to be mowed annually, you know, at this time. Um I I think to have some objectives around decreasing

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the invasives that are there. um you know with a kind of a a goal for what uh what you think would um you know you're I don't think you're going to eradicate any of it by any stretch of of the

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imagination but I think uh reducing it by you know 80 or 90% might be a reasonable goal from where you are I think you know and for the establishment and maintenance of diversity. You know,

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if if you're going to state that you're going to um you know, try to achieve a certain percentage of um uh of these new seedlings surviving and uh growing to the next growing season.

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>> Mhm. >> Probably maybe again, you know, 80% might be a reasonable goal there. Um I think when it comes to the you know the mowing I my biggest concern there and

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based on my own experience would be it's a it's a disturbance that it can benefit some of those species um for sure to reduce competition you know they need sunrise sunlight and uh reducing the

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woody vegetation that would come in. So I I concur with what you heard from the S SWCD in terms of how they would manage it. I think it too can create disturbance that can tilt the scales to

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benefit some of the invasives and you know you can inadvertently drag um bittersweet and other things around uh and create more sunlight openings for the berries to get established and to grow. Um, and so that

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>> I'll interrupt you and say we have avoided any berries since >> Yeah, for sure. >> managing the the invasives there. We've been pretty industrious about that. >> Yeah. And that's awesome. Um, and I I think continuing to do that.

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Unfortunately, the birds don't >> breathe our management plants and they >> they deposit new berries, don't they? Seeds every year. And um so that's my if I I guess if if I had any amendments

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suggested to the plan, I think you did a great job. Um I'm excited to see how this develops. I think it would just be stating a goal so you can tell if you're successful in getting there or if you're going the right way. Um and giving yourself a little bit of wiggle room to

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say that it, you know, it may be mowed annually depending in the fall. I agree with fall but um I rather than lock yourself in will you have to do that if it's not serving you correctly.

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>> Yep. No, I'm happy to incorporate that that language. And I think maybe what I'll do, Scott, since I feel like you um have the most indepth knowledge of this is I will send you my um attempt at uh

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writing what we just talked about and then share that with the commission. Um I'm scribbling some notes here as I'm talking. Um. Um.

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Okay. So, what is your opinion about mowing this spring and and putting cardboard down to create homes for the 600 seedlings that we're going to put in? Does is the commission comfortable with that? from my part, I I thought that made

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sense and will probably give them the best chance at survival that first year when they're trying to establish their roots. I think just trying to limit competition um is going to be good. So, I didn't have any concerns with that.

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>> Okay. Anyone else? >> Yeah, I thought that was that was fine, too. This is just buffer zone is what we're talking about, right? Um, well, no, no, no. This is um >> in the wetland, too.

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>> It's in the wetland. So, you know, I think a lot of the wetland uh well, I think of the wetland I'm I'm talking about BBW1, the one closer to Lever Road. >> Yeah. >> That to me seems to have almost like two components to it. There's the delineated

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wetland and then there's the almost like little stream that goes through there which um >> I don't know where that comes from but even in the winter you can see water in there and so um you know that's um and that has been

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filled with uh what is it >> grass >> canary reed grass is it which is an invasive species and we've you know we've tried tried to work on that. But what I want to do is plant things in there this year. Um hopefully to out

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compete that. But but yes, there will be planting and thus cardboarding in the wetland. >> Okay. And so we're this is really like, you know, this is restoration. You could call it that.

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>> Um and so these are these are mostly all in the wetland areas. These are going to be wetland plants, right? They're all wetland grasses. >> We're putting we're putting wetland plants in the wetland area and we're putting up plants um in the more sort of

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transitional buffer zone. I mean, some of that some of the wetland is not very wet, I got to tell you. And so, we're putting in a mix of >> of plants so that we end up with success. And um you know, the the plants that are in the right place will end up

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surviving. We'll do our best to guess and put the right ones in the right place, but they'll make the final call on that. >> All right, sounds good to me. >> So, um, okay. So, then our plan for now

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is to mow as soon as we can persuade the highway department to do that. put down cardboard and I think we will plant in the fall when we have some um suitable places to put in all these plugs that

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we're going to put in. And we will be conducting a survey of invasives early in the growing season and we'll hand remove what we can find and we won't let any any fruits form. >> Sounds good. Sounds like you guys are

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>> We're trying. We're trying. Some of this is out of our wheelhouse, but we're trying to >> We're learning as we go. >> All right. It looks like we have one hand up from the public. Um Mary Lou. >> Hi. Um Mary Lou Kanka. I'm not sure. I

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think this question is for the commissioners here from the conservation group. Um I know that there was talk about the privacy hedges

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um to you know give the blue house um their given privacy. So, I I don't know if that's part of this all plan that Penny

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is speaking about with you. And if it is, I'm curious to learn the status. You know, I was in the library today and I I I'm like, "Oh, NY's house is this shade of blue." Like, you know, you can

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definitely see it. Um, thank you, >> Penny. you were telling me about it. Why don't you respond? >> No, I'll respond. Um, we are in the process of sourcing trees and shrubs to plant this spring. Uh, it's a big job to

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come up with 41 trees and 71 shrubs. But the uh the screening plants in that little gap along the east property line where NY's house is is a high priority. And um those will

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be in as soon as we're able to do it. You know, everything, as you were saying with the um the the trail project, everything is more complicated and timeconuming than you might imagine, but um we're working hard on all of that. And certainly

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the majority of things and definitely the shrubs you're talking about, Mary Lou, will be in by early summer, late spring, I would say. Great. >> All right. Well, thank you.

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>> Yay. I look forward. Thank you. >> All right. Um, thank you for all that information, Penny. Um, so I think I guess we should take a vote. So there was general consensus that mowing in the the spring is all

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right and placement of the cardboards in order to um sort of treat the soil as Penny's report said or are we waiting are we waiting for next time we say >> I I was just I'm sorry to interrupt

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madam chair I I think what we were saying is it's the the the one time mowing this spring is what we were talking not to establish which I think that's what you're saying >> and then and then I'm still working on the long-term

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plan and I will look to you again Scott to um hopefully get that to where we all feel good about it >> right yeah that that plan work with Scott and bring it back to another meeting um and that would be great but I

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it sounds like you'd like a vote right now on the one-time mowing and the placement of the cardboard and things um and starting to do some of the planting there in that wetland. Um wetland one I

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think it's called. >> I think we'll probably put plugs in in the ball. Um my understanding is the cardboard the goal of the cardboard is to um kill the vegetation underneath. So yeah, >> competing with the new plugs. But we'll

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plant plugs densely so that you know there aren't big gaping holes out there. Um and the the you want and you want to do the mowing right away and then also the cardboard right away, right before things develop. Yeah, >> exactly.

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>> Okay. So, let's vote on that then. I'm um looking for a motion to approve u a spring mowing as soon as possible and placement of cardboard to prepare the soils at the um at the

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library site. >> So moved. I'll second that. >> Okay. All right. Roll call. Fox. >> Hi. Uh, Tommy McDuffy, >> hi >> Khan. >> Hi. >> And Douglas.

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>> Hi. >> And Wilson. Hi. >> All right. Thanks for coming. >> Thank you. Um, can't wait to see this place in two years. It's going to be fabulous. >> I know. I can't either. I thank you for

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all your work. You, too, Maryanne. >> Yeah. It's fun. >> If I had more time. >> Yeah. We will be looking for a lot of help planting all those plugs come fall. So, um, >> yeah. Well, let us know. You know, as a committee, we

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>> It would be like a bonding day, in-person bonding day for the commission, >> right? >> So, can I just ask I just want to ask a couple of clarifying questions because I'll help Penny with the plan. So we want to have goals for reduction of the invasives

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um and then goals for the success of the plantings um and then a mowing plan that gives us flexibility. If we find that that the mowing is detrimental, we could come up with a different mowing

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plan then. >> So we so we could have annual mowing unless you know but we would have but we would evaluate the success of that and adjust as is appropriate. Does that

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sound right? Okay. Okay. Good. Okay. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Be continued. >> Yes. We'll see you again soon. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much. Bye.

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>> Bye. All right. Um, so we have on our agenda number seven, discussion of draft regulations for shoots conservation areas. But it is almost nine o'clock.

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And sorry, Scott, but would you mind if we moved it to our next meeting? No, I um actually I think when we first talked about it, I think we talked about putting it on the agenda for next week's or >> Yeah, it was it says it in your

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>> Yeah, it says in your email that we were going to discuss over 28. So, >> yeah. >> Oh, okay. Well, good. Then we are >> I just on the agenda tonight, so I didn't know if there were questions that people had or uh Well, let me just ask is is there anything else that people

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want? uh ahead of the meeting or is that like a good place to start? >> I have no idea where the town properties are. I I've I uh I would love that map. I know it's out there because there's

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one at the lake that somebody at the lake who was a president of the association had a map because there's also a ton of townowned properties around the lake that the town has taken. Um, and I just haven't been able to track down who

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um who has that map. Um, >> Matteo might know. Matteo. >> So, I have I have a list of all the parcels that are that are townowned and it it is separated by conservation area or not conservation area.

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>> Um, it's not a map, but it's pulled from the assessor's list. >> Yeah. Yeah, as far as the conservation areas go, there's just the just the handful of them, though, right? Like I'm assuming the regulations we're talking about, Scott, would not be >> for town property in general. It's just for those that are designated as

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>> Yeah. >> Oh, I thought it was for Okay, maybe I misunderstood. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's just what we have power over, >> right? >> As a commissioner, we only have power over conservation land. >> Oh, see, I thought the cons Okay, I

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misunderstood that. Um, uh, okay. So, yeah, where I don't know. I generally know where some of them are, like, but I don't know where everything is. Yeah, it would be nice to know where that is.

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>> Um, Matteo, would you mind just sending around the list with the like partial numbers and maybe the streets? >> Yeah. Um, and then we can all because then then all you have to do is go into the town assessor map and once you know the parcel and you can just Google where

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it is. Um, and especially if there's not that many of them, >> right? >> I think there's a way that I can actually highlight those specific parcels in the map. >> Okay. >> And send that out. >> That would be great. >> That would be great. >> And I had a question for Matteo. We got

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a voicemail from a Lynn Tron uh who said that they brought property in Shootsbury, but they didn't state what the property was or what they were looking for. It was one of the voicemails that were passed on to us. um since our last meeting.

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>> Um yeah, the the land use clerk phone and the town clerk phone. We get a lot of phone calls uh from people who either have just bought land in town or are interested in buying a particular property and think that we have like the plot plans and well location.

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>> Okay. >> Um >> gotcha. >> And we have a lot more information than we than we do. Um, but I did get back to that person um and explain what we did have and what we don't have, which in the case of the parcel that she bought was not much.

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We didn't have much information. >> And then Beth, based on our visit, uh, is that going to be on the agenda that that catch basin and look going back to the original approved plan?

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Oh. Um, you mean the, uh, at the library, the sedimentation basin, >> right? >> Um, I mean, I think I'm going to we can figure it out and then we can let Penny and Maryanne know. Um, maybe if they're

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coming back to share their revised management plan, we could talk with them then. It sounds like we need to get back to them before the landscape folks show up. Um, which is sounds like it's pretty soon. So, um I think even

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this coming week I need to look at the measurements and then go out and take a look in the field and let them know if we feel like it has filled in or not. I mean, I don't think it needs to go on an agenda. Is there something we have to

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do and get them the information? And if you want to come with me, that would be fun. >> Yeah, I mean, yeah, we could set a date to do that. Um, and then I didn't know if you had chance to talk to or figure out whether there

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were any trees that came down on the other when we had gone to the site visit on Lake Drive for the Thomasi property. All I did was just look at the assessor's map and measure from kind of approximately where it looked like the

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work was done and it was over 100 ft from the bank of the lake. So I I think the work that they did there was not in our jurisdiction. >> Okay, that was my Yeah, that was my question because

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>> Yeah. Um Tom, you have your hand up. Tom Seafford. >> It's a lot. Yeah. Just as a quick tip, if it might help the person who asked about town owned parcels and a map,

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if you use the I think it's the assessor's map, accessgis.com/shootsberry ma, the one that you always can look for um tax purposes and whatnot. And for the search, just do town of Shootsbury and it will pop up with all of them pinned.

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Um, it's a very quick way, you know, it may not be an official, you know, but it's a very good way to see every parcel owned. >> Thank you. >> Okay, cool. Thank you. >> All right. Any unanticipated business?

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>> Great. Um, okay. That's it. Then I take a motion to adjourn. So moved. >> Second. >> Seconded. >> All right. Um, Douglas. >> Hi.

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>> Khan. >> Hi. >> Fox. >> Hi. >> Tommy McDuffy. >> Hi. and Wilson. Hi. All right. Thanks everybody. >> Have a good night. >> Thanks everybody. >> Have a good night. See you in two weeks.

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We might have a site visit before that, but Okay. >> Okay.