Um, I am going to start recording the meeting though, just because um, well, there's only two of us, so really I shouldn't even open the meeting yet. Um, I guess I will text both Scott and Bob and remind them the meeting started
at 6 because I bet they forgot. Yeah, hopefully they pop in. So, I'm really excited to get through these regulations, you know, when we're so close. Just want to get them done. And it's your last meeting. Yeah.
Kind of sucks. Not Not that it's a last meeting. No. Right. Yeah. I'm sure you're going to be happy to get your Thursday nights back. Yeah. Yeah. But you'll miss all your trips to the
library. Yes. Look for that. It's been interesting to watch it. Yeah. Think about all the things you learned. about libraries.
Joe pieed. I thought that was definitely milkweed. Yes. No, I think it was milkweed. Um I didn't want to correct Maryanne because when she first pointed it out, I said, "Oh, that's such a short Joe pie." And then as we kept walking, I
looked again and I was like, "No, that's that's milkeed." And the color of the flower is exactly like Joe Pyweed, but Joe pieed gets a lot taller and it has a different leaf and everything. Um, I guess I had never realized that milkweed's flowers are the same that
same pinky purpley color that Joe pieed is, but I think it was milkweed. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I too didn't want to dispute it. Mostly because I wasn't sure that I was right. I wasn't sure at first either.
I'm looking at it and I'm like, it's the right color, but it's not the right height. And then I just the leaves were so milkeed, you the rest of the plant was so milkeed. So anyway, yeah, after a bit of walking around, I'm like, "No, I think that's milkweed." But
anyway, does milkweed like wet ground? Um, I I would definitely have to look up to see what it's what it's determined as, but I' i've definitely seen it in upland areas, so it could be facultative, meaning it's kind of goes either way.
Um, but I've certainly seen it all over fields that are upland fields. So, I haven't been able to get it to grow at my house. That's why I ask. Oh. Um, yeah, like some randomly grows in our
backyard. It's more upland. I'm trying to think what would make it like a better environment for it. I definitely like sun. It's definitely a meadow, open meadow kind of plant. That may be my problem. Yeah. If they have much shade, I think
it's not Yeah, that kind of a thing. Well, where are these people? Since this is really just going through the regulations, I now I still feel like we should have a quorum. Is the plan just to go through what we
haven't finished tonight and then double back and see some of the parts and pieces that we were going to revisit? Yeah, I think I'd like to get through one versions of tonight finished, get to the end, and then I was going to myself
go through and um just take a good look at all of it and identify those spots. Yeah. where we we're going to go back and look um so that we can have a meeting where I know exactly which sections to talk about and you know when
you when you get to the part on the boats and buoys or floats or whatever it was it would be good if you took took the time to go back and look at chapter 91. Um, yeah, it cons it really does concern
me to throw buoys into that mix because it in my mind that means people would probably yank buoys and and that would be removing the safety aspect that that they bring which then is fighting with that boating
safety group. Yeah. you know, and you get into a funny place there that might not be where you want to land. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely want to look at that whole section again because I I definitely had some concerns about how
it fit into the wetlands regulations that and and even if you want even if you read it in a way that says you've got to do something which I could read it the other way um I think I would make some sort of
exception like maybe just have people notify you that they have them you you know, as opposed to turning it into a permitting, paying annual paying situation, right? There's
nothing we're going to be able to manage and control, right? And I we can't get into a situation where we're requiring annual permitting of something to the conservation commission and not and especially not that where somebody's just thrown a Clorox bottle out there,
you know. Yeah. It's not like we're talking, you know, buoys that ships are going to pass. Right. Right. Or even that there's like, you know, rocks all of a sudden in the middle of the lake that really need to be
It's It's not that kind of thing. Yeah. Well, oh, Bob Bob says, "Thanks." So, here he is. Was Scott coming tonight?
Yeah, I think so. He's around. He'd been texting questions about the the CPA stuff. Okay. Hi, Bob. Hey, thanks very much for the reminder. I apologize. I had it on my calendar at 7. Yeah, that's okay. Hopefully, this is
our last six o'clock one, which kind of throws everybody off a little bit. Um, I was just going to wait for Scott because I thought he wanted was going to come too. I texted him, too. Um, but
I'm going to quickly go grab some salmon then if we're waiting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. And I say we wait 10 more minutes or at the most and then just go Hey Beth, sorry. Quick question. Um,
what section are we on in the bylaw right now? We're on section eight. Um, at the end there, I think it's consultant fees. Very good. Okay, thanks. I think I think we should just go. I don't know what's going on with Scott.
I bet you he'll show up at 7 and I know Mayor's not coming till 7. So, let's just go. Um, it is June 26 at 6:17. I'm um bringing this meeting of the Shbury Conservation Commission to order. We're
meeting from 6:00 to 7:00 to finish up looking at the regulations. Woohoo. So, I will be here. I'm just going to go screen dark. Okay. Okay. I'm going to share my screen. I think this is what I want to share.
And then I want to go to here. All right. Here we are. Consultants and consultant fees. I read through this section and had no issues with it. It's it's um it's all about um when the conservation commission ends
up having to hire a consultant like a wetlands scientist to do a delineation or a engineer to look at a storm water report. Um and all of this is um very familiar to me just from Ammerst. I I I
think it's in the a lot of it's in the wetlands protection act, but um even if it's not, it's probably it must be in the Ammerst regulations. It's just the process is exactly what we followed there when we had to hire um consultants. And I know we've done it,
this committee has done it too, but it was when Miriam was the chair. or she did a lot of the figuring out of the fees and setting it all up like you, you know, there's a special account that you set up with the town. Um,
all the, you know, the applicant puts the money in. Um, and then you spend the money down and then whatever money is left over goes back to the applicant. Um, and the applicant really doesn't have much of a choice if the commission
feels like they need a a consultant or a third party or something to look at something um and they decide that then uh that's how it works. So I don't know did you guys have any
questions about that language? it it seemed to me to follow the um both the MACC model as well as the uh the state regulations. So, um uh I I I think it's great. It's a
it's a powerful thing, especially for something that needs a um an engineering review. Um so, I I I I wholeheartedly support this section. Jan, did you have any questions or comments on it?
I don't I think I brought up my comment before. I I I have a a sort of an side comment though. In the time that I've been here, this really is a side comment, too. Um I
haven't seen budget or balance sheets for the commission, you know, bookkeeping. Yeah. And I I guess I I I'm suggesting or recommending that maybe having that
annually produced and made public would be a good idea. Yeah, I know I agree. um maybe not necessarily made public, but I think the commission should see it maybe, you know, annually just so that the
commissioners have an idea of the different accounts that the commission has and where the money goes, like the fees that that people pay for their applications and stuff and what we can use the money for. I think that's a valid discussion. I um I have a I have
memories of it under Miriam um because we were paying for things. they were we were hiring lawyers and things a bit more at that time and so there was more discussion of which accounts had what money in them and stuff like that. So um I don't I don't
think we should limit it to the commissioners though and the reason that I say that is we we have um residents and whoever paying these permit fees and special things like what we're talking about
right now. I I think that you could get more buy in from the public if they knew that their permit fees went into this kitty and that this kitty protected this by doing, you know, xyz. I think it would I think it would help
it. You know, I I get a little uh funny about the the the the commission taking money and and not accounting for it. And so I guess it it wouldn't just be for the commissioners, but I but I think
the whole public should know. And you know, I mean, you can provide enough detail so that it's understandable. You don't have to go, you know, completely into the weeds with it, but just so people know where the money goes and and why it's beneficial. Oh, yeah. No, definitely. I mean, I it's not a lot of
money. It's and that may in the end we have two different accounts I think possibly three that are kind of from different sources over time. Um and and and what's interesting really is which which monies can be used for what fees can really only be used for the
processing of applications. So photocopying I think I think part of Matteo's salary can come out of the fees. Um, but such as like photocopying and mailing, all the mailing that we do, that's the only thing you can use those fees for. So, the other pockets of
money, I don't even really remember where some of them have come from, but um, you know, we we used a little bit of money to buy West Plin um, conservation area that was conservation commission money. So there
is some other pots, but it would be beneficial obviously because I don't really know exactly to to have that to have part of one of our meetings talk about that. And honestly, I think I I would present it as like as a commission, let's look at our our
financial situation and whatever public wants to watch the meeting and learn about it. I'm okay with that. I don't think there's any reason for us to sort of, you know, invite the public to see this. It would just be a discussion that the commission would have to be updated
on on uh but it would be done in a public meeting so people could could watch it if they wanted to. Um, I think you'd I think you'd wind up getting support largely getting support um you know because you for example this year you're going to deal with the South
Brook Trails and I I think people will want to to know that and and you know they they tally up the volunteers and convert them to matching money. You know those are good things to show. So I don't know that's my two cents.
Yeah. No, I think that's great. I like that idea and we'll we'll find a time to do that. Um the end of the fiscal year, which is where we're at, is actually maybe a good time to look at finances. But um yeah, we can we can do that. And and certainly
everything we we do and everything we have is a matter of public record. So if anybody did want to uh to see the books, they could just simply put in a request with the with the town clerk. Um, so, um, but I but I think what you're saying
is, Jen, there it might be beneficial to have it kind of as part of a meeting to see where we're at. Is that correct? I I'm definitely saying that. And and if we did it once a year, if we did it quarterly, what whatever you choose to do, um, if people know that you're going to say, you know, here's the books,
here's here's how we account for what we did, and here's what you got for it. I I think that's really a good formula. Yeah. No, I think that's fine and we can definitely do that. Um, this is a little different. The this if we if we need to
hire a third party for something. Um, there we would have to talk to the town accountant about setting up a an account that would just be for the money that the applicant would put forward for this
one hiring of a consultant. You know, I understand what you're saying, but I I think I would I think I would include that in the accounting. you know, we have three accounts where we had to bring in consultants for X, Y, or Z and
you know, the resident put in the funds and this, you know, you know, I I would account for how the money comes in and goes out because my concern that I identified earlier was that we don't have any cap and you pointed out the state doesn't have any cap in their
rules and maybe that's okay, but it's a it's it's scary if you're put into a position of having to pay and not knowing, you know, which end of your checkbook you're going to wind up on in the end. But if you can see that there's a routine process and it isn't scary and
other people have gone through it, you know, you're just creating a level of trust, I think. Yeah. No, I think so. And and any applicant that has to go through this process, we would very clearly explain to them um how it's going to go. And you
have to provide them the quote. So you you're hiring say you're hiring an engineer to review a storm water report. You get a quote from a from that engineer. You share it with the applicant and you know before there's any money exchanged at all. And then
like I said there's language in here that any money that's not spent goes back to the applicant. So the town's not making any money off of it. I guess you know that it it strictly goes to paying for this third party review. Yeah. Um, if we did this too and somebody had
questions, it would be easy to, you know, have Matteo Xerox off the minutes from that meeting or or whatever. You know, I I'm just trying to simplify it and not make it a big deal. Just make it a part of what we do. All right. Well, so that is that section
um and hiring a consultant. And next we have minimal conditions regulating the work. This is like one of the last sections. So exciting. Um I think I read through this and didn't have any changes either. Beth,
could you enlarge that slightly? Yep. How's that? My my old eyes. Thank you. Sure. So on the very first one, 9.1. you have to have certain permits and licenses. Chapter 91 was one of those cases that we had a problem with and had
to deal with it this year. Um because we don't have any control over what happens when the applicant puts something into the state for chapter 91 for example. I thought that we were willing to accept
that they had applied, not that they necessarily got their license because the state was doing whatever on their own timeline. Yeah. I I think the key here is that it's a no activity may begin not as opposed to uh we can't hear a meeting unless that that
that stuff come that stuff comes in. Um, I know for a notice of intent the the the uh state language is all local permits must either be in hand or be applied for. Um, so this this wouldn't slow us down in making a decision, but
it would I mean it makes sense that every somebody who's doing a project needs to have all their permits before they begin their project. Yeah. Or apply or applied for. Well, we we we do our like Bob is saying, we do our thing. Um, so this is
saying no activity may proceed. It's not saying no permits may be issued. So, we can still go through the whole process of issuing an order of conditions that's good for three years to someone as long as um
you and we can include in in our as we do in our language that that they need to have applied. But what this is talking about is um that they can't actually start their project until they've had they've gotten all of their applications, which in the end that's really almost like a condition that we
would put in an order of conditions is um we're giving you your permit. It's good for three years. Here's your order of conditions, all the things you have to do. One of them is you can't start work until you've got and that's a that's actually a standard condition in our standard conditions. Um and I think
it lists chapter 91. I'd have to look, but we definitely have a standard condition saying that all local, state, federal permits need to be um acquired before you can start work. Except that we have allowed people not to do that. Was that because the
regulation was different? We've allowed people to actually start building something when they don't have their chapter 91 permit. Yeah, that's how we got into trouble down the street. My understanding was that all they needed to do was to have applied for the
chapter n chapter 91 permit and that because we can't control what the state is doing and that permitting process that was good enough. When it comes to getting a certificate of completion, they should be able to show that license. That doesn't mean they can't
start their job because it's just taking too long. Yeah. Well, then that's a thought about just taking that out of this of this list. Yeah, we certainly want them to have all
these other permits before they start work. Yeah, those make sense. More likely to make sense anyway. Chapter 91 is just a It's a futsy one. If it takes too long,
I don't mind taking it out. I I hadn't mind taking out either. I'm gonna do edits. And if I had to say my worst experience working with a a uh an agency in the last five years has been doing chapter
91 stuff on a on a pre-existing kayak launch that I was just trying to put steps in. So, um I'm not a fan. Yeah, I I think we have to be careful that chapter 91 doesn't become our living
nightmare. Trying to get my my editing thing going on here. What does this say? Add a comment. Suggest edits. Still not doing it. Maybe we do suggest edits. Yes.
Makes me every every time I'm doing this, I still figure figure that out. All righty. Next is the commission shall receive 48 hours advanced notice writing before commencement of activities.
So these are kind of like conditions that are these are some of our standard conditions in our order conditions be approved by the commission in place. copy of the permit should always be kept.
Yeah. A a regular question that I have received pertains to that uh me just zip by it. Um until the disturbed areas have been stabilized to the satisfaction of the commission.
There's that's pretty it's it's nebulous. People don't understand what that means. So, I kind of went with has 75% of your grass started to grow, you know, and they got that. So, I don't know if we
can make that any more specific. I mean, the objective is to not have dirt hit the water. I think everyone gets that. But because they do different things, sometimes they're the gardening or sometimes they're growing grass or whatever. Um,
I don't know. Would you be comfortable with u saying in parenthesis following that uh for example 75% of grass has grown in? Yeah, I mean maybe that's enough just to give them that notion of what it means.
Yeah, I'll have to check and see what our standard conditions say. Um um I'm just going to call it vegetation. Yeah, that's better. Um because to me, part of it really is that
the commission's come out and done a site inspection, you know, and and and talked about it at a meeting. So, it's satisfaction of the commission. Yeah, maybe it's grass that's or vegetation that's 75% grown in, but maybe it's it's more than that, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
Everything is a little bit different. That's true. But but the the question is always coming, you know, like, well, what does that mean? What does that you know? So, yeah. I mean, yeah. And I think and I think this is it's great to say do examples. I I think the what I'd
like to respond is well um have we're going to have to send a commissioner out to look you know, and then Yeah. But then then the question is when do I call them, you know, there yet? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Whoops. All right. Copy of the permit should always be kept on site. Work shall proceed in strict coordinates with the permit. All structures and equipment as part of the burn should
be continue operating budget. All work should be completed in such a manner as preventification to change require new require.
That's what filing a new NOI is. Wait. Any substantial changes made or intended to intended to be made in the plan shall require the applicant to I think this should be request an amendment
or it could just be inquire with the commission whether the change is so substantial that require perhaps if you omitted the file a new NOI section there and and add and then at the end the caboose say require
finding a new permit or amendment to a permit. Yeah. All right. applicant to inquire of the commission in writing whether the change is so substantial as to require the filing new permit
or an amendment to the existing permit perhaps. Yeah, there we go. Good. Okay. Request for an extension must be submitted in writing less than 30 days prior to the expiration date.
All right. You guys have any other changes to section 9? Um, yes. I am questioning 911. Uh if there was no professional involved in the planning,
so is that so if there's no professional involved in the planning, this is null or how do you decide on a case-by case basis? whether you need an asbuilt certification if it's simple. And
I think the um I think the state form says a professional or other qualified individual or something like that. Um uh as determined by the commission. I think maybe maybe some language like that would work here. But if you've got a
really simple uh project, then then then we have the out of the uh commission being able to determine who's who's qualified to to do that. I mean, um I've had applications that were just so well put together by homeowners that
we didn't we didn't require a uh you know, a PE to give a stamped plan. Um and and the commission in this case could do that same kind of uh decision. Okay. So that's where we're using the case by case line. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's okay. I mean, in the end, so many of these decisions end up being sort of case by case. Okay. All right.
My god, we're almost done. Um unless otherwise specified BP additional different forms for the administration adoption sample should be available. Yep, that's it. Are we going to have a different or
our own form for simplified projects? Yeah, we already have an application form that's that's administrative approval that I think Miriam put together and we'll that's so that's the application form and we'll just change the title of it to be for small
projects. Um, I still have yet to put the permit form together and I've been for all these administrative ones that we've been getting, I've been using uh determin determination of applicability form and just using a Sharpie and
covering up anything that says refers to the Wetlands Protection Act and just writing in bylaw instead. So, um, we do need to create a permit form for the small I was kind of waiting until we got through this because it'll be for a
small project instead of administrative approval. Um, and so, yeah, we'll have our own forms for that. We're kind of halfway there. All right. So, the fees, this is all already been determined and voted on by Is that what this is
or is this a little different? Oh, no. This is the NOI. This is just info for people who are um submitting notices of intent and need to calculate their fees. And I'm assuming this is up to date with the Wetlands Protection Act, but I can
check and see. What's this? Appendixes. Appendixes. Bendix abbreviations. Nice. And that's it. Unbelievable. This is huge. I'm proud of us for going through me,
too. Page by page. I am curious what wetland replication transllocation methodology is. Well, let's see. Wetland replication transllocation methodology. I'm actually wondering where we use that abbreviation in our
document. But right, it's like the method when you're um creating a wetland because you're because you have to for mitigation. It's your Okay. Yeah. So, you're you have to deactivated another wetland because you f had to fill it in. And this would be the wetland
replication transllocation methodology. Okay, I'm good with that. Yeah, that must be what it is. But you got me wondering. I I will see where we where we use that WRT abbreviation. Well, this is this is great. Uh many
thanks to the three of you and uh Scott uh just let me know that he will be on in about 15 minutes. So um uh and and and mayor and and everybody who came before us, this is a a tremendous pro project and outgoing or ongoing thing
and uh I I really think it's a a worth very worthwhile. So thank you all. Yeah, I think you know when we started with this there was a lot of talk of of just approving it the way it was. you know, it had been created under Miriam in a
lot of ways and I just really felt like we were the new commission and we it it was such an educational process for everybody on the commission to to go through all of this and and it really helps you to understand what you're doing as a commissioner. Um, and so I
think it was a worthwhile effort. It took a long time, but so yay. We made a lot of good changes. I feel like I think we clarified a lot of things. Um, and and it's going to be a good set of
regulations. Um, so now what we're going to what I I think I'll do with it is um spend a little time myself going through and and looking at the changes um and then I
think before we have a public hearing um bring it back again to us to talk about any areas where we didn't really resolve any an answer because I think there are a few areas in there that you know, we got into big discussions and maybe we
just decided to move move forward or um you know, or or or when I look through it, I'll be like, I'm confused as to what we finally decided with that particular section or that particular comment. Um so I think one more time we'll bring it back. We don't have to have any more six o'clock meetings, but
one more time I'd like to to bring it back and and have the commission address stuff like that. Then after that, um, I'm just gonna take it and, uh, clean it up. Clean up a lot of the We'll have a red We'll have a redline version and a
cleaned up version that we then bring to a public hearing. Um, and we'll have to, you know, post that as a separate meeting and everything and and advertise it as a public meeting, public hearing to uh, go through the regulations. And
then if we really don't have a lot of public comment and we vote on it, we're done. And that's and that's the regulations. So we have a public hearing and maybe we get public comment. Is the commission um
required to act on any public comment or is that discretionary? Then after a public hearing, it's it's similar, I think, to public hearings we have now where the public makes a comment, the commission addresses it right then and there as to
whether they agree and then they want to change the regulations based on that comment. similar to a public hearing for a application where um you know if a public if a someone in the public says something that we all go oh yeah we should add that as a condition or
something to a permit you know we do so we we we're not we're not required to do whatever they're they suggest we do required to uh deliberate on their comment having to do with our regulations and that deliberation occurs
during the public hearing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless we get a huge amount of people with a huge lot amount of comments, which Yeah. I hope that doesn't happen, but I've, you know, I've been in meeting situations like that before where then you really
maybe one of us is assigned the job of writing down all the comments that come in and we provide written response. And, you know, it just depends how complicated it gets. If we have barely if we just have a few people with a few comments, I think we can just deal with
it in the public hearing. If it's much more than that, then we may have to, as I said, like provide written responses, probably have two public hearings, address um we have to address the public's
comments in some way. Okay. Yep. All right, it's only 6:50. We have some time. So, I should see it. I'm going to stop sharing.
Um, let's see. So, uh, I see no Scott in the waiting room or anything. Yeah, he said he would be here at 7. Oh. Um, I did want to ask about um uh we've been kicking around the idea of having
um uh the rep from DP do some uh um commission education. Um and it looks like with uh Jan's sad departure, we'll have a likely have a new commissioner on board. I think it would I think if we could put something
on the calendar for um for that new commissioner um and and for the rest of us to to do say you know a few hours of education with the um the circuit writer would be great.
Yeah, I can check in with Mark again um about that. Yeah, I think he was going to come to one of our meetings once and then I think another time he was doing sort of like a a a training for a number of towns and
we could have gone to that. Um, okay. We can do that and we want to talk about the budget at some point. I'm just going to go fill my cat's bowl
so it stops pestering my ankles. Okay. Yeah, go for it. I'm going to go get a glass of water. What's wrong? Beth, can I share with you uh some uh success I had as a conservation agent today?
Oh, sorry, you muted. Yes. Yes. Good. There's this one trail that just has had, you know, people will bag the dog the dog poop and just leave the bag. So, um, uh, we put up one of our our trail
cameras and, uh, we we we caught the person literally bagging it up and abandoning the bag. So, it's like, yes. So, do you think it's the same person like every day? Yes, it's the same same color bag. Same same We think it's the
same person. certainly enough to invite them for a conversation on the matter. So that was that was quite satisfying. Yeah, it is very satisfying. So then are you you gonna um like have one of your staff kind of sit and wait for that person and now they know what they look
like and say, "Hey, we were able to recognize uh by by their fa face who who they are." So, we we will likely send them an address. I send them a an a message describing the not one, not two, but three laws that they violated by by
by doing that and um asked them not to do it anymore. So, that's great. Good for you. That's excellent. I know people people seem to think some people think, you know, the bags are biodegradable. You know, there's there's that sort of
thought of it all. But what I always hate is when you see see them in rivers and you know people have dropped them in catch basins. Yes. Walking their dog and then they just drop and they just just disappears. No. No. It it then
becomes both plastic and waste uh um a problem. Yeah. No, it's bad. It's definitely bad. Well, I had not great experience at work today. Oh, and that um we had a we have
a grant um it's with the executive office of economic development for infrastructure and it's um and it was split between FY25 and FY26 and basically luckily we had more money
in FY25 than FY26 because it was ARPA funded and they said they called today and said that all the money that was for FY26 is being frozen. Oh no. And is basically So I said, "Does that mean it's gone?" You know, is that what you're basically
telling me? And he said, "You may want to just consider it that way. Like they're not going to know about it being unfrozen for six months or something like that." Oh man, what how frustrating. Yeah. You'd already had that in your plans and and so on. That's
that's tough. Yeah. And the first thing he said was, "I have good news and bad news." I'm like, "Oh, well, what's the good news?" And the good news was simply that all the FY25 money we would get, meaning we hadn't um this quarter I had just submitted our our our payment
request and we actually hadn't spent the total that we had been granted for FY25 and I was actually going to see if we could move some to FY26. Um but the his whole positive comment was that they would like prepay us everything that was
under FY25 even if we hadn't spent it. Um so we will and and with the honor that we will you know do the work and obviously report to them but it's sort of they're paying ahead because they know that next year's is going to be
gone. And I was just like that's a poor consolation prize if anything. Oh my. I I know. I know. It was not so great, but so is the way things are going these days. That's how I feel. But hi, Scott. Hey,
Scott. Welcome. Hey, everyone. Sorry I'm late. It's okay. You missed the last day going through the regulations, though. So, we got to the end. We're done. Awesome. Yay. Well, congratulations. Feels pretty good. Really good. No more
six o'clock meetings. Yeah, I'm sorry. My apologies. I headed down. I just thought we were meeting at seven and didn't look at the online calendar until I get your text. But yeah, we weren't you weren't at our last meeting, so I
probably I forgot to even, you know, let you know that. My my fault, too. But all right. I'm glad it worked. Yeah. 6:59. Oh, there we go. 7 o'clock. Yay. So, I'll open the meeting again. We
opened it at 6, but now it's our official meeting. June 26th, I'm opening this meeting of the Shbury Conservation Commission. This meeting is being recorded and let me get my agenda. I have as chair I have no
comments I don't think at this point. Um, so we'll just move on to number three, which is review and vote on minutes of June 12th. Did everybody get a chance to look at the minutes of June 12th? Does anybody have comments?
They they look fine to me and uh and I hope John stays on. That is that is a good Yes, we'll make a comment about that. So, first, uh, I need a motion to, um, approve the minutes of June 12th, 2025.
I would like to so move. Second. I'll second. All right. Um, Douglas, hi. Colin, hi. Rowan, I think you're muted. Jan, hi.
and Wilson. I um I just realized I think mayor said she was coming at 7 too. I don't see her here yet, but we have quorum. So, we'll just move along and she can join. But yeah, a comment from the chair should be
that we need to thank Jan for her um at least a year, right Jan? Or has it has been more than a year? A little bit more. Yep. Yeah. Of uh great work for the commission. So many site visits.
So many trips to the library. Trips to the library. Yeah. But you took you were you very nicely went along with that when I suggested that you do the site visits and do the site visit forms and you've been very um diligent about doing
that about going to all the site visits. It's been super helpful for me. Um here's mayor. So anyway, thank you. Thank you for your service to the town. It was great. Hope you sort of enjoyed it.
Thank you, Jen. Everyone should experience it once. There you go. And there's there's many other committees you could get on if you want. All right. We actually have um site visit update.
Jan, your last site visit update. So, my last site visit update is going to be a topic we hit coming up. Uh, I went over to the North Beach. The Lake Wyola Association is looking to remove four trees there.
And, um, the closest tree is is 50t away from the lake, so that's good. Um, an arborist looked at the trees and determined that they were either in bad shape or would be if their neighbors were cut down. So, you know, one was counting on the other to hold them up.
Um, and it looks like there's no access for big equipment to get in there. So, I'm guessing it's just going to be a guy and a saw, so they won't have too much ground disturbance. I think that that could easily be
handled with an administrative request. Yeah, I I concur. Um, projects like that that um um I can be uh safety related. I I I'm fully in in favor of doing that
as a administrative action by the commission. All right. Well, we'll talk a bit more about that um at 7:15. We can have the applicant present. But any other site visit reports? I think that's the last one because we we did
the library visit today. Where's Mayor? That one's yours, mayor. Yeah. Um, sorry, I can't get my video to work and I don't know. I'm trying everything and I I think I'm just going to log out and log back in. But, um, just briefly, um, the site visit for the
library. Um, it was that last pond, uh, or last retention area that's closest to the, um, street. uh needs to they all need to be re you know fixed the all
three of them but um the or the three main ones but the um the one closest to the street um is getting more water than it should and Jan has been saying that for a long
time. Um so that um it is it is it's not doing the job it's supposed to. So that one again there's just concern about that one. Okay. Yeah. And um yeah I don't we don't have it on as a
separate item that um we also looked at the reveation of the areas of the of the wetland areas. So um Ward Smith had provided us with the final report um of those restoration areas for wetland area
2 and wetland area 3 that we had required um the library folks to do and Maryanne came to our last meeting and um to talk about that report from Ward um and everything seemed fine. Ward Ward's
report in summary just basically said that the reveation had was a success and there were definitely there were wetland plants that were succeeding. So the so it was it is a a wetland area. The um soils are hydric and um for both
locations and so then we had decided at the last meeting that we would just do a site visit to confirm what is said in in the report. And today everything looked fine. All the plants look look look really good in both both places. Um,
so that was just the other thing we were looking at today. Okay. I can I can fill out the paperwork and and upload it to um to the commission, but just just basically stating what we had just cuz it if we're discussing it, it the
paperwork should be filed. Um, okay. I'm just going to log in out and try and sign back in and see if I can get my video working. Okay. Okay. Bye. We'll wait for her since I have to be
sure to let her in. Unless she doesn't come back, then we'll just move on. All right. Um I don't see her. She must be having computer problems. Um Scott, the next thing is land management update. You got you have some interesting things.
Uh I well I do have a couple of items for us to talk about and um I think probably top of the list would be the moving forward on the grants that were
approved to town meeting here for uh Top of the Lake and for Southbrook Conservation Area. And I think I still have a question outstanding in terms of just the process that we would use. I
know um in the past with uh previous grants for Westwabin Woodlands, I think I had pursued getting bids from contractors and they had sent them back and then I um was getting ready to award
those and and then it sounded like there might have been like another process that the town would use for soliciting bid um award. boards and the contracts that they would use and um so
I was looking to not repeat that and to um start out from the beginning. Um I I really would love to get the bid solicitations out for design build for Southbrook. I think um that's a a large grant award I'd like to get moving on
it. I just don't know. Um, I think it's really a question for um I think it's for the town administrator really just to chime in to see um what grant or excuse me what contract
solicitation process they would use for grant of that size and for um any particular grant you know solicitation language you know that would have to be in an award that
is issued um from the concom uh to any grantee. And so I'm I'm really kind of standing well not kind of I am standing by awaiting that information and anxious Matteo looking into it for
you. Is he um um that would be a great I was hoping Matteo was going to be on tonight and I was going to ask him. I did I did write a couple of emails just for process here. The last one I sent to the town
assistant and or the town accountant, the town administration administrator and Matteo asking that question. I haven't heard back. Okay, because I was just going to say the accountant or the comproller, how who whatever their office is here in
Shootsbury, they would know too about sort of the procurement process that the town likes to use. Um, but also the town administrator, she's new, so but she could find out and I'm sure she's also already had experience with it. So yeah,
my guess is they're busy and have a lot going on and um yeah, maybe this hasn't risen to the top of the list, but I I've been paying them about once a week on this and so I'll continue to ping them on it,
but I really would love to get the grant award out. Yeah. Um for both of for for both of those. uh Westwabin Woodlands. Um we have the parking area there to be done. Of course, we had had a
outstanding amount. I had bid that last year and then I think we ended up with the kind of rock and roll around that. Um we I think the highway department said they would like to construct the
parking lot and so I have been in contact with them. I think they they said they would like to do that this year and um I I had given them kind of the design for that. So I assume that ball is in their court and they're going to be working on that for the parking
lot and then we can go from there. But um I think those are the highlights or at least what I wanted to bring here tonight. That's my questions. And it's great that now you have a little more time to to do all the pinging of people. Like even um Dave at
the highway department, you may want to check in at some point to see when he thinks this summer he's going to get to the parking lot, you know, just to make sure he still has it on his radar for doing it. That's an excellent. I mean, he could do it in the fall, too, I
suppose, but you know. Yeah. I think it was probably a month ago that I had contacted him. So, that's a great suggestion. Maybe I'll follow up with um everyone here beginning part of well, next week's a holiday week, so maybe at the end of this week before people
break, I'll I'll contact them again. Good. I know that uh something in my court is that I need to go up to town hall and sign those CPA grants for that are coming to the conservation commission. They're in the They're up
there. And I That was something Matteo asked me to do earlier this week. I want I hope it wasn't last week, but no, I think it was earlier this week and I said I would get to it, but I haven't gotten up there yet. So, they're not signed yet. So, technically, we probably
can't even use the money quite yet, but um it it's uh it'll be available soon. So, yeah. Well, it would be good to get it going. I was just hiking out over at Southbrook and those low areas that were kind of on the trail that are resource
areas that are getting impacted, they're still pretty muddy and people are walking through them and it would just be good to get that. Oh yeah. Squared away. Yeah. I think there's a few areas in South Brook that it would be great to have what we've proposed putting there
bridges and bog bridging and everything. will be great for people but also great for the environment there. So yeah, not related to any of the properties we manage but uh related to some of the bog bridging. I was over at the Breitwater
uh bog unit there and walking around that's that area um that they hay um or or mow late in the season and um it was looking really beautiful. the the picture plants this year were I've never
seen them in bloom like they were this year. There were just tons and tons of them all across that wet meadow uh there. So, really sensitive wetland habitat. I know that comes up periodically in terms of when it can be mowed or or what have you, but it really
is just a fantastic um um bog um there. So, and it is looking beautiful. Oh, good to know. I haven't had the time to get over there, so that's great to get a report. And Scott, where's the closest place you can park to that?
Uh, right right on Wendle Road. Um, they have the parking area and that's the parking area that had come in originally. if you we had them kind of reroute it around that bog and um yeah
if you're it's right in that location of course out in the main bog too there are picture plants but they're actually more right in that that first wetland habitat that's kind of near their overlook that um that they had built. So happy to show
you anytime if you're going to be in the neighborhood. That sounds delightful. I I warn you I'll take you up on that. Cool. All right, it's 7:15. Um, so we can start our meeting for the administrative approval request for Lake Wyola
Association for the North Beach. And I see Mary, I know Commissioner, nice to see you again. Hi everybody. Congratulations on getting through all those bylaw work. Um, thank you. So, um the Lake Wyola Association
uh has agreed to look at and and approved um putting in the permit for removal of trees at the north beach. The trees are actually, as Jana said, in the 50 to 100 foot from the lake. Um they
are a danger to people walking by. As you can see, a lot of the branches are falling. The trees are also over the property. um that's on the the beach line um and dropping things on their roof too. So um they actually put in the
request for us to look at it for for 10yola drive um and it's been approved by the association and they had an arborist um I sent with the request look at all the trees. They're in pretty bad condition. A lot of them are dual trees that if you take down one the other
one's probably going to fall over or die. Um, so he we've already had it looked at to make recommendations and uh the association board approved moving forward with this request. Um,
answer any questions or I put I sent all the pictures through with it too. So people he he took a lot of pictures and to show everybody what it looked like. And Jan I did it with Jan earlier. So,
so is this um is this might be a naive question, but is this land that's owned by the lake association or is it private land, but the lake association is It's owned by the lake association. It is. Okay. It's the North Beach is all Okay.
Great. Yeah. I looked through the um report from the arborist and and certainly looks like the trees need to come down and the pictures certainly show it and Jan kind of already gave the summary of
the site visit. Um so I don't really have any other questions. I guess Jan kind of alluded to no machinery. So is is it the trees are going to be taken down uh by hand? Yeah, because the the access is blocked off to to cars or vehicles being able to
move through. Okay. All right. Well, and it also seems like it qualifies for an administrative approval because um it's it's tree removal and they are all um considered hazardous and they're all over 50 feet
from the lake bank or any other resource area. Um, so I have no more concerns or questions. Anyone else? Bob? Oh, I was just going to make a motion. Oh. Oh, okay. I'll take a motion. Uh, Madam
Chair, I'd like to make a motion that based on the submitt, the uh, arborous letter as well as the eyewitness of one of our commissioners that we approve the um, uh, removal of of the requested trees. Okay. Second.
I'll second. Nice. All right, Douglas. Hi, Con. Hi, Rowan. Hi. And Wilson. Hi. You got mayor, too now. Oh, and mayor. Is
she here? I I am. I still can't get my video to work. Um, I have a question. I know that the um we're supposed to be visible at all times. So, I'm not sure if I can vote because I can't get my my
um video to work. So, I I think I'm just to be very like candid like very, you know, transparent even though you can't see me. I don't know what the exact rule is, but that sounds like it could definitely be
um a rule. Yeah, it it was because I I remembered when I, you know, did all this and read everything, it said you're supposed to be visible at all times as especially because we're in Zoom. But um so I'm just going to sit out for I'm listening and um but I'm not
going to vote on anything. And uh I I've gone 5 years with five and a half years with never having a problem with my video. And now all of a sudden I can't get it to work. And I don't know why. But so I'm just going to sit out and say vote
Mary. Oh, yes. I just got a thing. It says my internet connection's unstable. Um so I'll issue the administrative um approval, you know, next week and get it
out to you. Okay. Um and that's it. So thanks for coming to the commission with your tree removal. Thanks for making it easy. Glad to see you guys again. Nice to see you, too. Have a good night. You, too.
Beth, is that being in view a uh Oops. Is that is that a requirement under the the the town or or bylaw as far as being visually present during a meeting? I can't say that I know and I'm I'm
wondering if it was something that came out of COVID like there's some requirements for Zoom meetings. Um but if Mayor thinks she saw it in something I Yeah, I can't say where it is. I don't know. But it it may definitely be some
kind of a requirement. Maybe we can have Matteo check that for for another time. Uh because certainly we we have the ability to have people dial in that don't have access with a computer. Yeah, I think um yeah, I don't think you
deny them just because they don't have a you know they can dial in. So I don't know what difference it makes whether she's dialed in and her camera isn't working. Yeah, I don't know. We'll look into it and see. But she thought that she
remembered seeing something, so better be safe than sorry. Yeah. But um All right. Next on our agenda is to ratify the emergency for 74 Park Corner
Road. This was um emergency for Miriam. It was really an extension or well it was a a new Let me just share my screen. Can you guys see that? Yes.
All right. Um, yeah. So, this was just we had issued them an emergency to um deal with their well that had gotten um flooded and contaminated. And I think it involved trenching to their house and then also
putting in a a drain, a yard drain, and they hadn't gotten the work done under by the time that the previous emergency expired. So they came to our last meeting and requested
um I guess at the last meeting the last meeting they talked a little bit about it. The last meeting they were also here for their vernal pool discussion. Anyway um this is basically a new emergency s for the same work that
they were unable to get. So, they've got from June 16th to July 16th um to get the work done and that's all it is. So, we're just ratifying it tonight. It was already issued.
Anybody have any questions or comments? Okay. May I make a motion? Yes, please. I I I motion that we ratify the emergency certification. All right. Second. I'll second.
All right. Roll call. Um Douglas. Hi. H I Roland I. And Wilson I. Great. All right. Next is certificate of compliance for 70 Lake Drive. Um I see
Mark is here. Um why don't Mark why don't you talk a bit about it and then I did draft one that we can take draft the certificate we can take a look at that too. Okay. Um good evening everybody. Um basically it was a relatively simple project uh where
we just uh expanded parts of the deck and enclosed it to create a handicap accessible front door uh and a screen room sun porch or screen porch. um you know there was really no disruption to
the resource area. There was no change to the topology of the of of the site. Uh we used helical piles as the foundation. So there were pleasantly easy to drill in and with minimal disruption and uh you know we're kind of
done. That's all there is to it. Okay. Any questions? Well, good. I'm glad your project went well. I think um I think Jan, you did a site visit, right? I did. Yeah. Can you give a a little report?
There was virtually no disruption of the ground surface where it was. The the grass has been planted and um when I looked it was at 75% and it's better than that now. Okay. Great. Bob, you have your hand up.
Yeah. I apologize, Madam Chair. I would like to recuse myself as I'm a director about to the project. Okay. Um, now we only have three people.
So, I I guess I'm going to say that I do think Mayor can probably still vote remotely. I mean, she's not remote. She can vote even though she we can't see her lovely face. Um, Mayor, have you been listening to
this? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, and I'm familiar with the project and what's been done. So, um and I guess I need to ask if both you and Jan are um outside the aut
I believe I am over 300 feet because uh I my lot is 100 itself. So, it's got to be at least um 300. Well, it would be 300 from your property line. Regulation isn't distance, Beth.
If you remember, it's distance or beyond a butter to a butter. Okay. Yeah. So, they do own a property. Um but that is a separate parcel. So, um Right, Mark? Yeah. Our technically
our leech field is across the street and uh so that's not but there's no building on it or anything. It's just a it's just a grassy field. Um I thought yeah I thought the the
requirements were 150 ft. Isn't that on the concom website that a butter is defined as 150 ft because we didn't have to know about Jim right? Yeah, sorry. A butters are 100 100 feet and um
right the 300 had to do with um planning board. Yeah. Well, it had to do with something else, too. Remember when they brought that up at one of our meetings? And I was thinking 300, too, because Ammerst is 300. But but it was still But it was still the distance or a butter to beyond a butter to a butter.
Um I think I satisfy both or this property satisfies both as being distance and not direct to butter. Okay, good. All right, then. Um
we're good then. And it sounds like the project went well and there were no issues with erosion or anything like that. Um project's complete in accordance with the order of conditions. Um, so why don't I share my screen? I did put together the certificate of
compliance. All right. So, this form is pretty straightforward. being issued to mark um location of the site. Oh, and actually Jan, I wanted to ask you if you remember what day you did the site visit.
Um did I do form on that? Let's see here. Would this be the only form I never filled out? I hope not. It might be. I did send you
a notice that I did it. Yeah, I was looking through my texts, but I just didn't have time today. I don't know. I don't I don't seem to have a a form, but I can I'll look and see if I can't give you the date.
Okay. Yeah. Well, let let me know. So, that's the one thing that that's not filled in on here, but all the rest we've got. We're issuing a complete certification and that's basically it. If we had some ongoing conditions, we could add them, but I don't think this project needs any
ongoing conditions. Um, and then there's just signatures that I'll fill in once we vote. And there's an appeal process. No, there's reporting information. Okay, Beth, it was on June 16th.
All right. Great. Um, all right. So, if nobody else has any concerns, um, and there's nobody from the public to ask really for anybody has comments. Um, I I'll take a motion to issue the
certificate of compliance for 70 Lake Drive. So, motioned. Second. I'll second. All right. Roll call. Um Khan. Hi.
Rowan. Hi. Fox. Hi. And Wilson. Hi. So great. We'll get you your certificate of compliance. Um Mark, and it does have to get recorded. Yep. Yep. There's there's one other outstanding issue. if
you got time to talk about it. Yeah. I thought I was just gonna ask you if you want to talk about that old order conditions, right? When uh when we bought the house in 2001, we had a system replaced in 2002. Uh we had orders of conditions, but apparently,
you know, back then I didn't really know what was the process for this stuff, but uh we never got a cert we never filed a certificate of compliance. Uh and so we went to do that and there's a couple of issues. We needed a test as a certified
copy and the book and page number needed to be updated because they are they so is it the is it the order of conditions that didn't get recorded or the certificate of compliance? Just a certificate of compliance. The order of conditions was recorded and Mark it was
Mark Stinson who noted that the certificate of compliance was never filed. something that we just forgot about and or didn't know about. And okay, with the stuff you sent me, I I was looking through some of it. Did you actually send me a copy of that
certificate of compliance? No, I I sent you a copy of the orders of Oh, the orders of conditions. Yeah. Signed copies of the orders of condition. Yeah, I guess I don't really need that old certificate of compliance. Um because what we'll do is reissue that. um issue
you basically a new certificate of compliance with the idea that that old one um because often people don't record those um forget to and lose the certificate of compliance. But as long as the order had once been recorded and
the project got complete um you know we can we can take a look through that old order conditions. um possibly even just come and do a quick site visit again to make sure that that work that was done so long ago was done in accordance with
the order and then we can reissue a certificate of compliance with um with with the updated book number and they did the records. Yes. Yeah. And then you'll be able to record
it. Great. Yeah. Um I'm just going to say this. I think you may have to submit a request and another $50 for for an updated. In fact, I think in our fee schedule, we have a a price for u reissues of things because often
people lose things and then we have to go through the process of reissuing and so we do charge people for that. Um so anyway, yeah, I can check with Matteo on that. Yeah, check with Matteo on that. So I should So I should just complete a new
certificate of uh of compliance form and send it up to Matteo with a cash with a check and uh uh and confirm what the cost is. Yes, that's great. Yeah, another request similar to what you did for this certificate of compliance and Okay. And we'll probably, like I said,
have to schedule another site visit um and go through the same thing at another meeting. Okay. So, sounds good. All right. Great. Anything else? No, that's it. Oh, excellent. Um,
all right then. Well, thank you, Mark, for coming. You're welcome. Thank you guys for taking care of it. Sure. Have a good night. You, too. Um, all we have left on our agenda is
unanticipated business, which I don't really think there is any. Do you guys have anything else? Yeah. Awesome. I love a short short meeting. Wait a minute. Do you want me to do the as a grand finale for myself a
septic tank site visit? Do we have one for you to do? Well, you just said you wanted to do a site visit. Yeah. If if you would like. Yeah. Um, I would say we want to wait for him to submit his request and then once we do receive
that, then we would set up a site visit. Okay. Um, so I don't know. Yeah, go ahead. Set it up with him and go it. Take mayor with you. Well, he was telling me, it was so
funny. He was telling me that um his when they bought the house that um there was they were going they I guess didn't go into the basement or something and there was like an open
like um just cesspool well or something. Yeah, exactly. I can't remember they said it was a susp or a well, but like I think it was the well and it was just huge and they had to like rectify the
whole thing and and he said it was like I mean bigger than you know several people holding hands and making a circle. Did he ever tell you that Jan? Uh I maybe was just like what? It was kind of like
one of those things you just didn't expect to see or hear when when uh you know what was it, Mark? What were you saying? That was actually Annie's house just on the other side of the street. We had bought it and we were planning to rebuild it and uh and uh we
were working in a cellar kind of just cleaning things up and there's this big plywood piece. There was like two sheets of plywood covering well I thought it was a makeshift floor and uh so I was working standing on it and then uh when we had to have it tear it down uh
Clark's excavator opened it up and the excavator almost fell into it. It was that big and it was just uh orning pool. It was huge. And it's one of those things that you realize that if it I had broke through,
if I had broke through, I could still be down there. Wow. Oh, I thought it was under your house, but Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Danny's house. That's Was it I'm just curious. Was it fed by groundwater or like roof drainage or It was ground
water. Water, man. There was a lot of water in there. That was their water supply. Huh. Wow. That's wild. That is wild. Well, which is a nicer surprise than the one we had at our house. And uh underneath the living
room, there was a something that looked like a well that was indeed the the cesspool that all the waste from the house went into. And uh and and I remember trying to explain it to a a director of the board of health. It's like, "No, it's a it's inside the
house." "No, no, where's where's your sess?" It's inside the house and uh just could not believe that house had been built like that. But but luckily long since corrected, but uh yeah, we were glad to get rid of it. I bet. Yeah. What
year was that that you bought that? I think I think it was the the the the 30s or the 40s that it was was built. Uh and then then I bought it sometime in the 90s. Wow. That's wild. Crazy stuff,
but fun and exciting kind of old towns and all their weird things. An old town. Yeah, old towns and weird things. Um, all right then. Um, I take a motion. I will take a motion to adjourn.
I think you should go for it, Jen. So motioned. I will second. All right. I see a little person. Um, all right. Well, thanks again, Jan. You're welcome. Thank you, Jan. Have a great night. I'll
take Wait, I have to vote. Let's Let's vote. Let's vote. Um, hi, Douglas. Hi, Rowan. Hi, Fox. Hi, Con. Hi, and Wilson. All right, good night everybody. Thanks
everyone.