##VIDEO ID:jCEMjn5qP28## all right so it's 7 o'clock on October 10 2024 and I'm calling this meeting of the shb Conservation Commission to order this meeting is being recorded all right how's everybody doing good it's fall beautiful out there I know I love the cooler temperatures better than that there's a very good shot at Northern Lights tonight that's my son was saying that it looks a little cloudy though might be but they um radiation you know that causes it is supposed to be as good as it was last spring so it might be good maybe between the clouds a night full of radiation that sounds awesome right um let's see Bob's not gonna be here tonight and um Matteo couldn't make it tonight either but he did start on Tuesday which is great I think I think you guys might have seen some emails from him he um he kind of dug right in I think and started figuring out some of his tasks at the office and then he did mention um digging in a little bit to Old minutes which is really great um so and I'm meeting with him next Tuesday and I believe Carrie is meeting with him on the 19th which might be a Saturday I'm not sure but um so you know it'll take him take him a couple weeks to kind of get the hang of it but um I think he's G to be great and I'm sure he will be at our next [Music] meeting um so let's see first on agenda was comments from the chair that was one of the things I wanted to talk about was Mato um the other was that Jan Scott we went to the shets spray birthday party which was fun it was a beautiful day and it was great day to celebrate birthdays um and we handed out uh five I think of our little sheets describing what it what what it is to be a conservation commissioner so that hopefully we can we can get some interest in our our fifth member so that would be really helpful but it was fun we had a good time and some people just were interested in what the Conservation Commission does too and that was that was great um oh I also wanted to ask you guys so come November we only have one meeting a month we switched back to one meeting a month again we do yay um and I was wondering if you guys want to do it the second um Thursday of the month or the fourth Thursday of the month I'm not sure let me look my only thought would be that the second the fourth Thursday May fall like around Christmas I don't I haven't looked at the calendar actually but it might just be a little more challenging than if we did the second yeah I think second I mean it works as good as any other okay Jan do you have any preference I don't all right so why don't we go with the second Thursdays of the month for November through April yay that'll be great so the 14th would be our next well we have one more meeting in October on the 24th of October in two weeks and then yeah then our November meeting would be the 14th which works out because the 28th is Thanksgiving so I think having it on the second Thursday will work better probably for December too yeah in December the second Thursday is the 26th which is like the day after Christmas so having it the second Thursday is just better right okay great um so next on the agenda is conservation Land Management Scott I know you've been you've been doing lots of things you've been very busy has been busy well busy is um we did did did talk about um the potential for um monitoring at Su Mountain we have a conservation restriction there in the past we've uh done some uh We've contracted that work actually um with um I think was Charlie eer I think is his name and um he did say that he would be willing to do that again this fall his fee is $350 I believe we have money in an escrow to pay for that that's one decision I do you want to just te this up for a later conversation Madame chair or what would you prefer um no we should talk about it now I think I mean yeah keep going so that that's one decision to make um I have reached out on the um West Cobin Woodlands we got the curb cut approved for the parking lot there that's on um attractive land I believe it's owned by the town but it was um with a um I think it's a partnership that we have with kro land trust and they uh so the highway department approved the curb cut I think I did reach out to uh Stuart Kestrel to talk a little bit about the parking lot and configuration so we're working through that I think the next step there would be to finalize that um I think we're thinking a small two car parking lot off the road there uh there really isn't room for uh a very large parking lot at all but enough maybe to get two cars in um and then we would need to bid it and I um I think I had the names for three biders that we could put out for so um I really don't know what that would come in at and I think that was a question I had for you math would be uh the money that we have left in the grant to pay for that um I think I want to say it was thousand something I think so too yeah I think it was again uh I think Penny had those numbers and I but that's what I remember too recol so it's not a lot of money to do very much I think it would be to smooth it out and put some gravel down but um so that would be maybe the next decision would be to move forward with kind of working with Castle to finalize that parking spot I think we're talking approximately um 400 square feet something like that for two parking lots and I don't know if it'll be a square or rectangle configuration but that's what we were thinking about um and then the made the last thing that I did a little work on was the um South Conservation Area there I was looking at some of the the the previous assessment that have been done and they have a number of some of the small bridges that are in need of replacement one of them is looking pretty bad um it's kind of on that piece right uh to the south of Rus breco's house and I'm kind of concerned about the safety of that um for people crossing it especially with snow machines also continuing to the south of that the trail is now regularly washing out or there standing water there I think there's more water coming down wendle Road and coming in under the Culvert there I noticed the Culver is starting to wash out and so it's just a separate issue they're on the road but I did uh contact um Evan who I think it works at Kohl's but he's with the stob bile club and he had replaced if you recall some of the bridges before and so he's taking a look at that to give me a a bit of what he thinks it would be to to to put it replace that bridge and maybe extend it to where it's flooding um so I think that that might be it some of the highlights from uh Our Land Management we did do the um we the last item uh the old peach orchard um uh monitoring so uh Beth and Jan and I uh accompanied the land owners there at the old Peach Orchard and walked the property um everything looked to be in compliance with the with the conservation restriction on that property and I did write up a site visit and sent to the concom so we should probably vote on that yeah I think we should vote on that and we can also I think vote to um a lot the money to hiring Charlie Eisner um to do suner mountain and then just back to Southbrook didn't Evan work on that bigger Bridge that's closer to the road they rebuilt that right they did they did a great job and it was pretty inexpensive um that's why I thought i' have him take a look at it and I think he's associated with the stormfield club as well so it would yeah be built of those standards yeah because this is the bridge that goes over almost like a little stream that's a little it's I think I know what you mean yeah and then um further south of there the the road is low and there's a culvert that comes in from um from the east from where the road is and that that's just standing water and getting really muddy on the trail so people are trying to find their way around it yeah um that'd be great whatever whatever whatever he comes up with because I think we have some money for Southbrook too um when Penny when she came most recently to um one of our meetings and she said we had you know this much money for Southbrook and then this much money for Top of the Lake um so anyway I can look back and see how much money that was for self Brook yeah yeah why don't we why don't we make take a vote to a to um approve the old peach orchard CR monitoring report I need a motion by motion second great uh Rowan hi con hi and Wilson I um I think I forgot to mention Jan do you mind continuing to do minutes for a little bit longer I'm I'm furiously uh writing Mato had said you if he could work for a little bit on some of the older ones um so maybe if did we already talk about this if he could do minutes maybe at the next meeting and then maybe the first meeting in November he could start that would give yeah that would just give him a few weeks to catch up with uh some of the older minutes okay and then we were gonna vote to um a lot how much did you say 350 for Charlie Isner yep 350 okay so a lot three $350 for Charlie Eisner to do the um annual CR monitoring at suar Mountain motion I motion to pay for Charlie second all right Rowan I con hi and Wilson hi excellent ah my cat is driving me crazy all right next on the agenda I think Jan site visits oh can I ask one more question where the curb cat what road is it on for the west quab and Woodlands palum Hill oh okay palum Hill yeah it's right on the Town Line okay okay so we had a few um site visits on October 1st Bob and I visited 16 suar Mountain Road uh we met with Eli Masterson the contractor for the project uh the homeowner is George Durant he was looking to put in a very small deck and uh said there was a Vernal pool on the property and so we took a look it was all further than 100 foot away and um we didn't see there was any issue for us there on October 5th um all of us Beth Scott and I met with uh Penny Jakes at top of the lake is Top of the Lake a conservation what are we calling that is that an easma a town property Town property yeah that's conservation land conservation land okay um um Penny had done a lot of work there and it looked like things were kind of finished her recommendation to us was that the highway department continues to mow that some additional plannings be made along the edge of the uh growth vegetation by the lake um and that we work to eliminate some invasives that were identified there including Buck Thorn and bittersweet and um I'd say she didn't quite say it but I'd say we need to continue to accept her volunteer activities there with the gardening and and any other volunteers that may be interested and the last thing [Music] was do we report on this Beth we we did the uh uh Lotto 32 the library W or or do we wait until we get Ward's ball report oh I think you can just say that we did it and that you know we'll be expecting his report but you can talk about it a little bit if you want to so Beth and I and Penny and um Maryann antonelis the librarian took a look at a couple of wetland spots at the on the library lot one is way to the rear and one was off to the left if you're if you're looking from the Road uh we did that with Ward Smith who has been monitoring the site um there is a a wetland in the way back it's it's flagged uh Ward mentioned that we could move some shrubs from the lower portion of this designated Wetland area so they don't drown otherwise that was fine and the one up closer to the road he thought was not a wetland uh and that we should treat it as a buffer zone um it had grown in Fairly nicely um and he thought that it could continue to be managed the way it's going so that looked good everything kind of looked good and we'll get a report from him soon yeah yeah I was glad to just hear this so he's seems like he's doing this twice a year and we have one more year of monitoring of the two Wetland areas the Wetland restoration areas um but yeah they did seem to be growing in pretty nicely not all wetlands in the one by the road right still look good right that's all I have okay um oh did you want do you want you could talk now or we can talk later just about upcoming site visits that I think there was that one with uh so uh we set up a just this morning or this afternoon I set a meeting up with Mark Whitman this is where he's uh trying to get an easement or a conservation restriction on his property there on monteu road he would like us to come back on October 24th right before the next meeting at 345 that in fact he's got it pinned as he as as we requested yeah I think it's lever road though it's not monu Road right don't go there right Le Road y Scott can you make that that one just it has to do with conservation easement so um the 24th at 3:45 let me look oh that's uh oh wait no October 24th yeah I am going to be out of town that whole week so no I can't make that day Jan I think we should still do it because he's coming to the meeting that night so um Jan and I and maybe Bob will uh we'll just take a look and we'll make sure that all those pins look like they're in the right spot it was it's great that he pinned the whole boundary I think that's great so we'll take some pictures for you and the other thing you asked was that we do some more routine uh monitoring of the erosion controls at the library site I sent something off to Maryann but I have not heard back so we'll we'll do that great thank you thank you for doing all that organizing J and thanks Scott for doing all the conservation area stuff that's great all right it's 7:21 so we can um start our 715 item which is do you want to approve the minutes oh yes didn't see that um yes does anybody have any comments or changes to the September 26th minutes nope okay um motion to approve the September 26 minutes no motion second second Rowan hi con hi and Wilson I all right so let's let's start with our 7:15 item which is continuation of the request for amended order of conditions for 31 Lake View Road um and I see there's a few people here for that one um do do you all as applicant um want to say something now in the beginning I'm happy I'm ready to share that Redline vers version of the order of conditions whenever we want to look at it but if you have things to say please do no go ahead and share that's fine Beth thank you okay Commissioners is that what you yeah good let's do that if I can make this work [Music] [Music] we can people see that yeah y yep all right it's kind of goofy all right so this is the redline version that um I sent around to everybody um Beth if you don't mind I'll take you up on your invitation to just say something on behalf of the Salvador at the beginning first of all uh we want to thank you for taking the time and effort and putting your talent into um addressing the edits to the proposed amendments you offered to do it that was very kind of you and we appreciate that um secondly uh depending on how you want to proceed uh we have couple of comments to your edits I'm sorry we couldn't get to them to you sooner today but given our schedules and getting them this morning and getting with the Salvador right before this meeting I I was unable to put that together so um but I think uh I think we're uh very close to closing this out and hopefully we'll do it tonight we certainly don't want to go to the November once a month meeting schedule and hopefully be done uh tonight so uh depending on how you want to proceed I can either uh uh put forth our comments or you rather make a presentation yourself and and then we'll we'll put our comments in after that whatever way you're comfortable proceeding why don't I just give a quick overview of of what I have in here just in case folks haven't looked too you know too closely at it and that way if the Commissioners also see anything that I missed from last meeting um you know we we can all all make our comments I guess because um I may have missed some stuff um so I'll just quickly it's not a lot of changes really um but I did take out the in perpetuity for the general um sort of name of this section of conditions so it just says post construction um I added in something that I think Scott was commenting on where we've got the applicant showell for number 30 condition number 30 the applicant shall maintain and repair markers and boulders as needed maintaining the limits of the no disturb area and then what I took out of condition 30 was the statement basically saying that it continued to perpetuity but all the rest of the language is there um 31 31 um I think this was one that we definitely talked about at the last meeting where we said we wanted to change this statement before any sale of the property in perpetuity to shall be inspected by by the commission periodically and that's the bolders and pins that Mark the no disturb and then I took out again the I took out this statement that was more of sort of intention it wasn't necessarily a condition it just which I think we decided didn't really um fit into a condition um 32 say the same 33 oops I knew that was kind of happening with this stop okay 33 um took out Perpetual Wetland restrictions um and I think so this is prior to the sale of property the owner shall provide a letter to the Conservation Commission notifying the commission that they notified the grantee or new buyer of requirements of this order of conditions and the deed rest rtion regarding W protection areas and no disturb so we took out perpetuity but we did include that at the time of sale they need to inform future buyers of the deed restriction and same for 34 same idea grantee shall provide a letter to the Conservation Commission so the new owner understanding the order conditions and the DED restriction taking out the language of perpetuity um this is very slow I just want to show the deed restriction then change it at all but I just wanted everybody to again review this deed restriction which would be in perpetuity this first number one is basically saying no impact to the resource areas that are on the site and then number two talks about um impacts to the no disturb area which are prohibited describes them as placement of fill placement of leaves grass clippings brush rubbish garbage debris mechanical mowing cutting or other disturbance of indigenous plant species Landscaping placement of structures pilings or impervious surfaces alteration of substrate any other activity which would temporarily or permanently alter the wells okay so yeah I'd like to hear from the applicant but they think of this and then after that Commissioners also can make comments on on what I might have missed thank you uh so subject to comments from Kathy and Joe paragraph 30 the edit uh with the blue Highlight maintain the limits of the no disturb area and striking out the last sentence is acceptable to the applicant paragraph 31 uh we continue to have some concern about the the language in section 31 um as it impacts ownership uh of the property so uh as you know uh The Boulders are there they're not going anywhere the concern is pretty consistent and I think um uh is reasonable I know uh it's supported by the law uh the sentence it says the applicant shall instruct all agents to explain these markers to buyers lesies landscapers and all persons taking over the property from the applicant this uh language uh as general and vague as it is places a I think an extensive and far too broad uh burden on the applicant who wouldn't be the applicant at the time anyway uh it would be the owner uh but as you've had it defined in this agreement as always the applicant I think that's a reasonable use of that term but to place the burden on uh the uh the homeowner uh to notify everyone from uh a buyer a lesie an agent that they uh that this condition exists and refers to 30 uh is I think unenforceable and awkward and uh the Salvador is propose language uh in contrary in contrast to this that would uh they would commit to saying that the applicant shall imp install a permanent sign SL marker on the property uh in the uh location of the first smart because they all go along and unfortunately I don't have um I can't share my screen because I'm on my iPad tonight but Kathy had ordered this very nice and I know if Kathy can share it later it's a it's a sign and it has looks like a heron and some wet lenss and it says Wetland protection area this area is fragile is a fragile plant and animal habitat please help protect this precious resource so the homeowner is willing to uh agree to have a permanent sign uh placed on the on the site of this Wetland protection area to notify everyone keeping in mind that anyone else whether they be a broker a uh lesie a buyer uh they are on notice of this information through the registry of deeds with the deed restrictions and so requiring the homeowners to take undertake this burden I don't think this has any basis uh in the law and it it you know it could be fraught with Peril if the uh Salvador were uh you know had passed away and their children were being responsible for this and and not doing it and then getting in trouble uh or imperiling a sale uh that would be unfair um again uh you have asked for the right to periodically inspect the property which you do have particularly if there's any concern about a violation just make sure that that sign was in place and they don't NE they don't have any objection to that so we would like to work with you to craft some language that says that they shall install and maintain a permanent sign notifi Ying the public or not notifying everyone that that the wetlands protection area exist in the location where the sign is and the markers are uh so that's that's with respect to 31 with respect to 32 and 33 uh we would like you to consider collapsing those into one because one they're a little bit redundant uh two do think again that they are um unenforceable over Brad and re overreaching you're asking again the applicant prior to the sale to do things that again they may not be in a position to do including providing a letter with an original signature uh to the Conservation Commission uh as an aside most things are done electronically these days but and even in the registry but um nonetheless uh that uh you know so it puts the burden on them to notify the commission that they may be transferring or selling their property again the buyer will have a title search done uh and they will be able to come to know that these deed restrictions are in place and so we think that if you collapse 32 and 33 and uh take the onus off of uh the the applicant or the buyer from notifying the Conservation Commission um to say that I know about these when they're buying them uh with a notice of public record uh but you could say prior to the sale the granter can notify the committee of the proposed sale uh or transfer uh and uh and doing that uh would I think you know accomplish what you want to accomplish um and the notice could also say and refer the buyer to the deed restriction uh for their reference which I don't think is necessary um the last thing is in your deed restriction um I think it would be fair to ask that uh right at the end of the first paragraph where it says this restriction prohibits in perpetuity to put the phrase unless otherwise Modified by the Conservation Commission so I would not want to have a situation where some applicant or a potential buyer was in there asking for some relief and you would say well I'm sorry we can't change it it's in perpetuity um you would reserve the right uh to have the authority to uh modify that so those are the points that I think uh we'd like to have you consider uh and Kathy do you have any uh further input on my comments no I think you captured it all I think the only thing I would say is that you were talking about collapsing uh 32 and 33 but it's 33 and 34 correct I misspoke you're correct okay just wanted to make sure we're all looking at the same section yeah thank you okay um I just what was the language for the deed restriction I'm going to just type it in just so I have it it sounded but we need to talk about it but you said prohibits and perpetuity unless unless otherwise Modified by the shutesbury Conservation Commission Commissioners are you okay with that statement um it seems like it's it's all right with me I mean it's just basically in a way looking out for changes that might come about by some Conservation Commission in the future yeah I I'm good with that I would defer to both councils I I I have seen language like this where it's you know modified acceptable to both parties I I don't know if there would be any concern with a commission modifying the deed restrictions in some other way that would not be acceptable to the landowners but um I'm fine with the language is spelled out okay all right Jump [Music] Around let's start with 31 then move my cat um so one question I have with 31 um and I know like you said we can we can work on the language that would be on the sign but I think what I would want to just make sure right now is that I think the sign should really say no disturb Zone um you know Wetland area it you know pretty clear kind of thing where it's [Music] um definitely saying you know don't don't go beyond this this spot um the sign that Kathy showed me today is very large C you know bold print several fonts at the top it says Wetland protection area so and and we and then you can fill it in any way you want after that but it does put people on notice if you want other language we don't you know the language that CH we came up with is saying this area is a fragile plant and animal habitat please help protect this precious resource yeah I I mean I like that but that seems a little a little soft I guess you know like I think if there's going to be sign I think it has to be a little bit more like um that's fine by us yeah a little me more meat on the bone that's fine yeah um so marking P shall be expected by the commission periodically so it seems the issue really is um requiring the applicant to or including language in this one uh and it seems a little bit in the the one in 33 and 34 that require communicating with future buyers um and I'm trying to figure out how we can let's see I mean I like the sign is a great idea I want to say I think the sign's a better idea than what's written here I think the last time we met we talked about this notion that um um the Do Not Disturb aspect wouldn't be uh understood or if a landscaper did something contrary to what's require I mean we can't they even the homeowner can't ensure that the L escaper is going to come in and get it you know whereas a sign that says basically don't you know it's sort of a no no sign do not better you know you got a better chance anyway yeah no I agree I agree um Scott how do you feel about it yeah I'm supportive of the amended changes removing the conditions for the landowner to uh to notify future owners and I agree with the um proposed alternative uh posting a sign with no disturb message on there okay be Donna's got her hand up oh sorry am I half my screen is covered I can't see hands oh and so does Kathy okay Donna yeah so a couple things that I just wanted to note um obvious the the sentence itself gives me concern because it says the applicant shall instruct all agents and agents are is a legal term meaning essentially designated representatives and it and it doesn't finish out agents of whom so I just think if you're going to use that language in the future you need to make sure that if you're going to do anything about agents you need to say agents of whom just so just sort of um a notation the other thing is if you're going to change it I would make sure that there's a requirement that the sign that the sign be maintained not just erected but maintained as well and the other piece of it is that I would um have I think I would have somewhere on the sign that it's subject to an order of conditions yeah or even something in regard to the deed you know that somehow the language you know connects with the with the Deeds so for example if a new homeowner doesn't for some reason hear about the deed but then gets there sees the sign and is like oh what is this the deed restriction I guess to be perfectly honest I think the order of conditions are stronger than the deed restrictions I think they're really critical and um I think most all attorneys that do real estate that are worth their salt um would spend time really if they found an order of conditions like this making sure their clients understood it so I just you know I think it's the order of conditions that's really where your Authority is and um pointing out and be and that's where the real language is on what they have to do in this area the deed restrictions aren't half as explicit about how important this area is and what has to be done and maintained there yeah but I mean as we keep talking about the order the conditions are not in perpetuity well they are I mean it's it's not like I mean it's it's not it's not a question of perpetuity it's a qu because they can be modified right but they never go away unless unless the Conservation Commission came and said they were modifying it by removing it an order of conditions on properties an order of conditions on property and when you get your certificate of compliance and there's ongoing conditions in it it's there the difference between imp perpetuity and not is that that it can be modified the same language that um attorney Martin just asked you to put on the deed restriction that's the [Music] difference okay Kathy you have hand up um yeah I just um I know the language that that we proposed sounded soft I guess maybe I am a little soft in my approach to this I want to both protect the Wetland area but I also don't want to discourage um people from enjoying it um and you know I know there are restrictions to that enjoyment but a no Disturbed Zone to me you know I don't know it's like a demilitarized zone or something it just sounds it sounds um like it would prevent anybody from not disturbing the area but from from enjoying hiking fishing whatever um they want to do in the river so is there a possibility we we could agree on a different signage language that wouldn't include a no disturb Zone I thought in our last meeting Donna had mentioned something about not really liking that language anyway so is there another way to say that without without disturbing without um rather discouraging the enjoyment of the area well I do think the sign should definitely sort of indicate that this is a a wetland protection boundary you know Clearly say that it's some kind of a boundary um and then as Donna said it probably it should refer you can say it's a wetland boundary that um is protected by an order of conditions protected that's the word yeah say regulated but yeah protected by an order of conditions um I don't think you need to I think you're right if you if you have a big bow Prince at Wetland protection area and then under it have subject who are protected by an order of conditions and then Kathy's Pros which says the areas you know fragile plant and animal habitat please help protect this precious resource I think that conveys a very clear message um and puts people on notice and yet allows them to you know see it do whatever they are allowed under the law to to do yeah I think and and we can certainly we can work on that language a little bit um right here we as long as the commission's okay with the concept I think we can we can word Smith the language so so it would say Beth the applicant shall erect and maintain a sign I Donna I put install I thought okay that's fine that's fine um install and maintain assign I don't know whether you want to specify the location I'm GNA call it a wetland boundary sign or a sign along the Wetland boundary or along the not the Wetland boundary it is the no disturb zone so install and maintain a sign along the we blend no disturb zone I'm going to call it this disturb no disturb area that's you call it other places area as um as shown on exhibit I forget what we have for it but I'll fill that in exhibit whatever it was um anything to sign along the no disturb area sh any or no disturb line boundary exibit um I want to say presenting but that's not quite right discussing um I I would just say worded as follows or something like that or worded like you have as worded on exhibit XX well that's just where the boundary is boundary has shown oh oh where the I just wanted to say um containing language um containing uh language that'll be worked on with by the applicant and the Conservation Commission but that can be said in a better way I would work on it and just make it part of the exhibit I wouldn't put in there that you're going to work on it yeah that exhibit already exists it's the one that goes with the deed and it it's just a map but it actually shows where the boundary is so I just want see this this m this um sign to be placed along that same boundary um I'm going to say with wording um follows or something and then just when it's agreed to put it in there we could just say developed don't don't you think we could probably just Jin it up now containing the following language the uh Wetlands protection boundary prot protected by uh SEC or shs spy Conservation Commission order of conditions and if we want to put the nicer language that Kathy had worked up add a little of that to the bottom yeah we could say at least it's say long with yeah and then we can just add some fluffier language but as long as it includes this language um you want me to repeat sure what' you say we said Wetlands protection boundary protected by or protected by y uh the sh fairy conservation commissioner SEC uh order of conditions it up to Kathy for the friendly language well we can give it its number if if people think that's appropriate I think you're gonna have so much on that sign nobody's gonna be able to read it well it's there'll be plenty of room but I think having this on there might help somebody to look it up if they ever really wanted to look it up um so to me that would be the required language and then we can certainly add some more you know fluffy language but this would be the required language you can put with that a minimum the following language and then let Cathy add whatever she wants after it unless you're concerned that you want to make sure with the following required language yeah yeah yeah so that's sort of with the understanding that there could be more but this is what has to be on there right okay do we think there might we might need two of them like sort of one on one half of the boundary and one on the other half of the boundary I mean we don't have to include that in here that was just a question this is curious Kathy what do you think I'm tempted to go back to leaving the sentence in and forgetting the signs to be honest I didn't want a sign that was so um indust industrial industrial or yeah industrial my sign was was attractive with a heron with with the language that the area is protected it was something that was going to demonstrate that these weird green markers mean something along the boundary um you know because just in and of themselves they beg the question what what the heck are those so I thought a sign like what I originally proposed would kind of say it I I don't want it to look like it's you know it like it's a like it's yeah almost like it's a contaminated site or something seriously wrong with the property when we know it's not we're just trying to protect the Wetland so if it's going to be too Wy or too difficult let's just leave the other sentence in call it a day well this is just one I mean to me you can have the bird you can have all that stuff this is just one one sentence it just says Wetland protection boundy protected by the shury Conservation Commission order of Chans and this this language could be sort of a little smaller than the more large you know larger language that is saying you know this is a wetland we're trying to protect for these reasons you know that's a little friendlier but just have this language on there in case just to confirm that it is a boundary and and it has the condition number in case people want to look it up is that all right yeah we'll we'll put that on um marker number one right by the road okay um again I'm not going to put it in here but I think if it' be great if you if you could put the sign together and then just um have the commission or at least me or somebody take a look at it before you produce it okay that's fair okay all right Commissioners are you good with that for number 31 yes okay so now we're working on 33 and 34 all right be I think that it it it would be better if that said the applicant shall notify the Conservation Commission of the transfer of the property I I I think that I mean hardly anybody is doing original signatures anymore they're electronic or whatever it that's pretty archaic and I and I don't think we care if they provide a letter or whatever the point is you want to know right so if it says shall provide in writing right notification then I don't think it matters whether it's a letter or whatever so that would apply to 33 and 34 soy the conation of the transfer they notify in writing in writing right notify in writing the Conservation Commission of any trans of a a transfer of the property that includes everything sale whatever right and it seems to me that if you really want to guarantee that the new owner is aware of the con order of conditions in the deed restriction that then you may consider a letter going out from the Conservation Commission to the new owner or something in writing basically letting them know yeah I mean the idea of the owner being able to explain it and be sure that the person understands and then getting a letter saying the person understands is pretty meaningless we don't know whether they understand or not but if they get a copy of it you know or get a letter from the Conservation Commission saying you know this is the order of conditions on this property they'll have it that was just my thought on these why proper show you crossed off commission and you probably shouldn't have o of a transfer of the property okay so that yeah so that's just notifying us right the property or transfer applicant so notify and writing we don't even need this right writing to the cons Conservation Commission you don't the beginning of that right you don't need prior to the sale of property part to sell property you should you can start with just the applicant shall notify and write the Conservation Commission the transfer of property right you don't need that beginning it's you're saying it again yeah I still like prior to the sale though but well yeah but if it doesn't go through then that's just a waste of time does that sentence make sense yeah can show notify and writing notify Conservation Commission writing notify and writing the Conservation Commission of I I would finish out of a transfer and I would put of the property of a transfer of the property right sorry I didn't see other the property down there sorry all right so they're going to notify us of a transfer of the property um do we want to include anything about um I mean it yeah get a letter like that if we get a letter like that from the owner then I think what Donna was saying was we bounce back to the new owner and say Hey you know take a look at your thing this is what it means please come and talk to us if you have any questions yes that's actually even better yeah yeah yeah okay Kathy you have your hand up yeah um I'm sorry I don't mean to be difficult but in I'm not getting any younger and I'm I'm just wondering is this the kind of language that's in every property that's near a wetland it just seems so over the toop for what we're trying to accomplish or what what you're trying to accomplish you know I'm thinking I'm thinking okay and we're not planning to this property it's going to transfer to our kids at some point when we're you know how God knows how old I'm just thinking if we if we've got signage that we're going to put on the markers and we have to maintain that the signage always has to be there and you can come and look at it whenever you want periodically um this just seems so like I'm afraid I'll be 85 years old and I'm going to forget to do this when I want to deed the the house over to my daughter or my son M um I mean my thought on that just is that it is it's a it's a pretty special piece of property with the river right there um you know I think forever going forward with this piece of property the way wetlands and conservation commissions how how active everything is right now with prot protecting rivers and um that I I think whoever owns this property going forever and ever they're gonna obviously they're gonna have to have a relationship with the Conservation Commission um so your question does this happen with all orders of conditions and things I mean often we're not dealing with a property that's quite as um close to a resource area and um really could have some serious impacts on a really important river um you know and that's why i' I've Just Seen many times with my career when a new owner comes um and they aren't informed that that their property is very special and something happens right away you know they buy the property and they want to do something right away to make it how they want it um and and bad things can happen um so I don't know I I think think this is I think that this one I what we've created here for number 33 I think makes sense I I love the idea of the sign also um so if I made that in in support of Cathy I think collapsing 33 and 34 I makes sense to me um because I think what we're trying to do is um manage and um efficiently UH responsibilities and duties the Conservation Commission on this special piece property has a has the authority based on this condition to come in periodically and check it out no matter who the owner is so uh some responsibility has to be assumed by the Conservation Commission if they're concerned about this property that they want to periodically stay on top of it um asking the uh the owners as I said at the outset of my comments to be responsible for notifying people about something that's in public records both in the town in the registry everywhere title examinations of of having the owner take the burden of letting other people know now with a piece of property that's got a sign on it that hey you know you I'm I'm telling you that this has a deed restriction I'm telling you this has a conservation restriction I'm telling you that this has an order of conditions all of which are public information and would be uh looked at so to the extent that we can say simply that prior to the sale or transfer that the owner will notify a potential buyer that there exists an order of conditions and uh and a deed restriction and if if they do that uh or they will notify the town of a propos I think the better way is to say that they'll notify the town of a proposed transfer so that the town doesn't get caught you know looking the wrong way okay there's going to be a new owner coming in we'll check the registry we the assessor's office will tell it's transferred and we'll down there and make sure that they don't do anything we'll do our enforcement of this rather than having someone who might be in their 80s or 90s turn into the sheriff so I I think there's a way to meet both your concerns collapsing these into a much more simple obligation that um will allow you be comfortable that you won't miss the opportunity to interact with a new owner make sure that this area is protected um and you'll have a sign there and um you know I think that all accomplish it I think we're overw smithing this making it complicated the more complicated you make with these things the more in outs there are the more conflicts there are the more doubt that gets con contained uh can be brought up and we don't want to I don't think the town should go down that road I don't think the salor is want to go down that road um I mean I don't know how many times you can say that there's an order of conditions you know and there's a deed restriction it's it's it's all over this it's all over the registry um and everybody's on notice including the Conservation Commission yeah no I know I well so so far in 33 what we're saying is that when a property transfer the um applicant or the whoever the current owner is needs to notify the Conservation Commission right um so then the only other uh you know 34 Cy shall provide a letter with that that sort of this is this is talking about that the buyer would then send a a letter which so I'm I agree I'm not don't think that's necessary I'm wondering if we want to say anything about the applicant uh letting it a grantee know about the deed restriction um I think think in real estate law the applicant has any responsibility and when they pass the property the property's taken subject to all these conditions and if they don't follow them then you have the authority and power and and are empowered to take your enforcement of it and I think it's so when I go back to Cathy's point uh even though this is a special piece of property it should not be treated any differently for you know transfer and enforcement there is being treated differently why there's there's why this there's this long order of conditions it has deed restrictions on it it now is going to have a sign on it uh and so that's why you know in Prior discussions I said 33 and 34 I think should be collapsed and it should merely say uh that they'll give notice of the transfer of the property and to the to the conservation commiss yeah is what you're saying yeah we don't need it we don't need to go down that road and you know she's already agreed to put a very tasteful sign out there and um and but the sign that gets the message across yeah no I'm all right with it um Scott and Jan how do you feel about that I'm good with that okay me too all right great and then I think we already made the change to the deed restriction correct which will stay with the D um all right so I think we're done with our changes as long as I see no hands actually um let's take public comment on on this before we make any kind of a vote so let me get back to the beginning there we go um public com Tom Seer good evening thanks a lot I really appreciate it I hope my comments won't take a long time would you be interested in 1 2 3 4 5 six typos going back through the document at all um sure yeah if you um follow me please on the six of them if you scroll up to the beginning of this section where it's about the finding of facts do you know where I mean yeah that's why in the beginning yep y under number two of the finding of facts just I'm oh your Scrolls slower than mine it's very slow yeah yeah it's getting there though like Hines catchup and I apologize if these are really um anal but uh for number two there you just passed it The Sawmill River the third light down there I believe it should say as a sensitive Wetlands habitat as a yes eological VI as a okay number three following that and the third line down at the end of the line um oh wait oh I might be looking at a different thing I'm looking at the one you sent me is the word pre-existing in there oh I have the project includes a demolition of an 890 foot house for number three oh is that number four yeah that's number four project includes complet completing demolition of an 800 maybe you just don't have the number four anymore somehow it got no I have number four in front of previous tree removal for some reason the numbering is different on mine the one that you sent me on email it goes one a through e anyway um I don't know if that's an issue but in the one that begins the project includes completing demolition oh you have the dash after pre-existing my pre-existing doesn't have a hyphen in it okay um and in the next one where it says previous tree removal the um the line that begins enforcement orders required erosions control I think it's just supposed to be erosion control yep um so then down to the oh number eight you have the word Perpetual um it might be number seven on yours or number nine I'm not sure yeah number nine on yours there uh it mentions Perpetual conditions listed below in the last sentence of number nine so you may just want to put with the continuing conditions I don't know yeah but I just thought that Perpetual might bring question since it's been such a hot word I'm just GNA do this with the conditions um and then uh going down into number 25 somewhere I think that could only be on the post construction oh no it's 25 in the construction conditions is it start is it start with seeding shall occur yeah the last four words it should be until the site is fully vegetated y um and then for the famous number 30 that we were talking about tonight um I have a an approv that should be approved yeah so if you look in the middle on the very left one line begins with approved site plan and it should be approved site plan to the best of my knowledge there um I just noticed those I hope I didn't miss any other ones um can I add one more minute of comment please thank thank you for your uh editorial help sure um I just want to say this hearing and this whole permit application has been a great learning process for me I've learned a lot about Perpetual conditions and writing of conditions as a Conservation Commission what I've learned is that Perpetual conditions are oftentimes legal for conservation conditions to use um and I'm really glad that this evening didn't include any AD homm attacks and I applaud everyone for not going into personal character assassination um which unfortunately did seem to occur it was unfortunate to read that also in the letter from the applicants uh Council there was a sentence about an overaggressive Conservation Commission in times past and I just didn't think that was appropriate or relevant so I wanted to caution about statements like that and I think this whole process has at least for me as a Town's person the taxpayer and somebody who you know just wants to get his buck for his taxes um fairly and transparently it brought out questions about conflict of interest issues with our Town Council um where the council recused them eles from looking at this permit and then last summer the council recused themselves from participating in the review of the conserv conservation commission's wet law and bylaw regulations and it it just sends up very confusing for a person in the town to know whether Our Town Council was truly in a conflict free position to deal with matters perhaps in the town um that are conservation related and it appears partially due to um a business transaction with the applicant but also with the owning of property on the lake by the Town Council and I just want to highlight it as something that might haunt us in the future as Town's people here in shb if we don't get a very clear description of when Our Town Council needs to recuse themselves or not for conservation related matters um and I know there's no answer available here but just wanted to offer that it um it's been very eye openening and very help to learn about these things but I'm still left with some questions and I just wanted to say that thank you very much for letting me say all of that right thank you Tom um are there any other public comments no all right I'm GNA stop screen sharing fig out how to do that there we go right just a second someone has to let my dog in just sorry um all right so I think we're ready to uh I'm ready to take a motion to approve the amendments to the already previously amended order conditions for 31 l f Road I approve the Amendments that we've worked up here tonight second I'll second all right con hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi all right thank you very much we'll uh we'll get those put together and um and mail to you and sent to d uh probably next week okay how quickly do you want the language for the sign should I send that to you tomorrow does that yeah yeah as soon as you've got something I'll take a look at it and then we can work on it that would be great I'll do that thank you thanks all once again thank you for your time and energy and getting this process and put through I know it's been a little bit of a labor but I think it ended up in a good work product so appreciate it every everyone's professionalism and what they brought to the to the table on this and have a a good evening thank you you too it was a it was a learning learning experience little for me too was good good night all right thank you thanks Donna thanks for your help good night Donna all right night everybody have a good evening you too all right all right I think we we did number three our site visit scheduling um under unanticipated business something I wanted to um talk about is the forest cutting plan that we got have you guys had a chance to look at that um it's first it's a forest cutting plan for an area on moniku road and I think I sent you guys some guidance on um reviewing Forest cutting plans I did not get you're both looking at me like you don't know what I did look at the cutting plan but I didn't get to the guidance part so okay we want to talk about that maybe you can give a rundown yeah yeah um so when we get these um you know they're sent to us from DCR um from the from that office not necessarily the Forester uh who was assigned to it but that office um and yeah I've got the guidance right here actually but what what what we're concerned with is basically that the the delineation looks accurate um that the map really provides us with enough information for us to look at where they're saying there's some Wetland areas and um and then especially when there's Wetland Crossings and things that that they're showing where they are that they're showing the filter strip which needs to be there on the map um that they're showing the extents of The Cutting um and then that that's all clear you know these four for cutting plans provide a whole lot of other information like um number of boards cut and species of trees and things like that but our concern is really is really the wetlands and then the way I understand it is if we if we look at a cutting plan and we don't feel comfortable with it so we have 10 business days to review it and comment on it to the um assigned Forester um I believe the Forester also has 10 days to review it 10 business days um and then he's the one that approves it he's the one that does all the enforcement um and and you know does any site he he should do site visits in general he should also if he goes and does a site visit and has an issue he's the one that does the enforcement we're just kind of this third party that's included in the discussion and is is allowed to look at these plans and if we see any issues with it in those during those 10 business days we let him know um we can do a site visit but again we have to contact him for like we have to go through him um to do it um I think I think that's about it let me look at the guidance thing I think um yeah yeah Beth is this a small plot for Harvest in your experience yeah it is and I know where this is on monu Road um this is like it's an extension of an already which I don't I don't remember because I think it was before me um and existing cutting plan so there's there's another one they they've started cutting in this area under a different plan and now this is sort of a like little expansion of something that was permitted a while ago um and so so just looking at this plan there's no stream Crossings or Wetland Crossings proposed so right away that's kind of a flag to us that it's probably okay um and the end that's what I was noticing too yeah it looks like it it cuts up to the edge of a stream right yeah it it cuts up to an edge of a stream but they do have it marked as having a filter strip it does say FS1 on there um the way I understand filter strips is I think it's 50 feet and they're still allowed to cut within the filter fil within the filter strip but they have to do only like a 5050 % do you know do you know more about that Scott than I do or I'm think that's it's something like it's 50 feet and they can still cut but they have to cut quite a bit less than what they're allowed to cut outside the filter strip um but this map clearly indicates at least where the cut is going to be um and it's got the wetlands areas marked and the streams marked and the filter strip on there um you know it seems like it's got everything that it needs and we got it in time sometimes you get these I remember inmer we would get them they'd already be signed by the the Forester and like the work had already started like I think the DCR and the Forester servic is getting better at realizing that they need to get this out so that commissions do get a chance to look at them but yeah this is a smaller cut definitely a smaller cut just looking at it you know I I I looked at it much the same as you Beth it didn't seem to have a a direct Wetland impact or anything that would require our riew um so I it seemed good to me yeah and the other thing to just look that they always note is that they do have a long-term Forest management plan they check the box that um that the land owner has that so it's it's I'm sure it's chapter 61 uh forestry land and they have written a long-term Forest management plan which is good so yeah um if there aren't any other questions on that we can we can just vote to [Music] um it's not like we're voting to approve it it's maybe that we're just voting to to not comment on it to not submit comments to the Forester on it if you guys think that that's what we should if you're if you are in support of that all right so I am looking for a motion to um make no comments on the for this on this Forest cutting plane I guess for the forest cutting plan for monu Road uh Su Susan and Sarah Patton and Deacon boner might as well put that in the minutes that that's who the land owner is and the properties's on bingu road okay I motion okay second I'll second all right browan hi con and Wilson I great all right I think that's all that is on the agenda um so our next meeting is the 24th we have that site visit on the 24th um I just want say I just want to say that the um can you see that it's blurry you see nothing but magenta that's the Northern Lights e oh right now tonight well a little bit earlier unfortunately while we were meeting be out there look North I will go next good good let's get out there and look I'm I'm jealous of you people on the lake that get to see something I don't know if I can see anything that was just looking up through the trees was it oh cool oh that's so cool I'm gonna go look that's awesome I um I may not be able to make the 24th I'm going to be out of town that's our next meeting so hopefully we have a quorum I'm gonna try to make it if I can depends on when my meeting wraps up okay but I wrote that down all right well yeah I didn't I haven't heard from anybody who came to the birthday party and took our descriptions and we didn't get a ton of people saying I really want to be on the conservation Beth did we did we do anything about getting into the town newsletter that's usually comes out about now can you still um I don't know if we still can um but I we didn't put anything in whenever they asked so I guess the question might be could we stick something in it you know how they do inserts sometimes yeah licenses I can find out we could put something in yeah yeah if if if we're not too late yeah yeah I guess uh is that lesie brace bridge that I would get in touch with about that I don't know but now we have Mato that's true yeah ask to research all [Music] right right motion to adjourn so motions second second all right con hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi all right thanks everybody thank you good night have a good night I hope you see the Northern Lights