Hey, George. How's it going? Can you hear me? >> Yep, I can hear you fine. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, I can. How are you doing? >> I'm doing okay. How you been? >> I've been good. >> That's good. You going to take some time, take a vacation this summer?
>> Uh, I've got a couple little things like I'm going to be in Maine. >> Nice hat. Yeah. Uh, congratulations. >> Appreciate it. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I'm gonna be celebrating all summer long, basically. >> Yeah. There you go. So, you said you're
going to be in California. >> No, Maine. I'm going to be in Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Nothing too too ambitious. Um, when I feel like I've got Oh, I'll be I'm gonna I've got a friend in Nantucket that's usually has us out every
somewhere for every four days. So, >> Oh, that's nice. >> Like a college reunion sort of thing. So, I'll do that as well. >> That's Yeah. And then >> Cara and I have been flirting with the idea of we've both been like drooling
over these um like Nova Scotia like hiking Instagram reels that keep like flooding our feeds. And so, we were thinking maybe we'll try to find some time to do that this summer. >> Yeah, that would be nice. That is a long haul.
>> Yeah, it's it takes a long time to to get there, but uh we'll see. >> It's beautiful. People I've talked to in PEI on the northern end supposed to be just dramatic. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And quiet. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, that's pretty much the chip.
How about you? Are you going to be >> Let's see. You are you in or you just got back? Uh >> I'm What's that? Are you in California now or >> No, no, California was the beginning was uh in May. >> Oh, okay. >> And then uh No, I'm in Cape Cod right now and then I'm coming back for a week
in August because my boys are both going to be here in August. So, we're going to have a whole family thing which will be nice. >> Nice. >> And that's it for trips. I don't think I have anything else planned after that. >> Do you have a place there or do you do you >> No, we Airbnb it. >> Yeah. >> Too expensive. I couldn't. It's
>> crazy. Yeah. >> Couldn't justify it. >> Right. You know, >> and the thing is if you buy a second home, that becomes where you travel a lot, >> right? Yeah. Exactly. >> And you end up maintaining them. What What are you going to do with the cape this weekend? Paint the living room. >> Right. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. Then it's hard to like not have somebody there to have eyes on it at all times. >> That's right. You can get property managers and you can rent them. I mean, it can be done. It just it's more work than I'm willing to put into it. >> Yeah. Yeah.
How's it going, Jim? Hi, Susie. >> You're on mute, Jim. >> I'm doing well, but not as well as you, AJ. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> I'm still I'm still riding that high from >> What a great series. I mean, this Knicks
team is just amazing. So, >> it was all It was all the series. all you once they once they got they came back against Atlanta, they were unreal. >> You know, >> I I never thought I'd see the day where like a New York team would capture the
hearts of like the whole entire country. It just seems like >> usually the opposite, isn't it? >> Yeah, exactly. >> But, you know, that's kind of speaks to something or something something appealing about this. >> I I I think it's the underdog thing. I don't think people expected New York to
be nearly as strong as they turned out to be. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's like there was always this like, you know, I as a as a fan who follows it closely, it's like I could I could see
the pieces and, you know, just was not never quite like fitting together the way, but like you had a sense that like if we could ever get this to like totally kind of work and congeal and have these pieces fit
together, this could be a really good team. And it just it just did not happen until it had to happen, you know, and then it just like it all sort of came together. Everybody kind of understood their role and Yeah. played well together. Yeah. It's good stuff. >> Well, and they had a superstar. I mean,
Brunson is just incredible. >> Yes. Yes. I'm going to be at the parade on Thursday. I'm gonna go tomorrow night and >> Nice. >> Gonna be I don't know how close I'm gonna get. It's it's like I think it's going to be an insane crowd. But yeah.
>> Yes, it is. >> My son's >> What part of town What part of town is that? >> Starts uh it basically starts in Battery Park and then it goes up Broadway to and ends at city hall. So if you know the city, it's like it's not a
>> That's not very long, is it? >> Yeah. No, it's not. Uh but um yeah, it basically Yeah, it's basically southern tip just uh >> Yeah, it's all over Manhattan. >> Yeah. So, you know, that's part of the
thing. It's like there's not a lot of geography to like spread however many million people are going to come watch. So, I don't I don't know what to expect, but it'll be fun. My son is like, we're both feed fans and we were sort of flirting with the idea of getting
together for one of the watch parties and it just they they won the thing so quickly. We we couldn't make it happen. So, he's coming up for for the parade. It'll be nice to see him. >> Oh, that'll be great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, >> that will be awesome. >> Yeah.
All right. I don't know if anybody else has See, Molly said she was out today. I didn't hear from Laura, but she might be out as well. >> I just got off the lake. >> We were kayaking. It's like, [ __ ] wait a minute. I got a
meeting. I got to >> I got responsibilities. >> Yeah, I got to get the boats in anyway. >> Nice. >> Must have been pretty nice out there this evening. >> Yeah, it was. There's a tree. There's always there's a big pine tree near the
the boat launch and there's almost always an eagle there just sort of being wise. >> Nice. I heard the eagles are nesting there this year again. >> Oh, yeah. They are. >> You've seen them? >> Well, I've seen them. Yeah, they Yeah,
>> this year. You've seen them this year? >> I haven't seen the nest. I've seen two. There was one day we saw three, you know. So, >> yeah, they're >> almost They're like Canadian geese. Not yet. >> Another 10 years, maybe. >> Maybe.
>> All right. Well, why don't I call us to order here at 6:35? >> Um, I'm not going Not tonight. >> So, a couple things. Um, >> I had thought we might do some final
line-to-line transfer. So, I I reached out to Gail and of course it made sense that like she said, there are still some bills that um are going to come in in these last two weeks of June. So, she recommended that we hold off. So, I
think probably in at some point in July, we'll we'll finish that up um and do one final round of those trans. >> And that's typical. That's typical, AJ, because doesn't have all the bills in anyways. >> Yeah. No, it made it made as soon as she said it, it made made sense. Um, let's
see what else. Uh, Haley mentioned that she had a conflict tonight, so she's not going to be able to join us, but um, uh, I'll fill her in on anything we discussed. So, we might actually have kind of a lighter agenda tonight. So, here's what I thought we'd do. We have
minutes from, uh, the 26th, I think. >> Yeah. Um, April 28th, May 7th, and May 26th. >> Oh, so we have more. Okay, >> we have three. >> All right. So, >> because you didn't I was looking at the minutes that Susie sent out. You had not approved.
>> I think I think we we held off on that. Um, okay. So, uh, give me those dates one more time. >> Um, let me go back. Um, May 28, I'm sorry, April 28th, May 7th, and May 26th. All right.
Okay. >> So, May 28 first. >> Yeah. April 28, right? Yeah. >> I'm sorry. April 28. Yeah, I keep doing that. Yes. >> All right. Let's do those first. >> Time flies. >> And then >> I have a couple school related updates I'll give after we do the minutes and
then I think we can dive into this long range planning tool that um George you've been working hard on. Okay. So, let's see. Uh, starting a meeting is I'm sorry. I'm just trying to
>> All right. You're starting a meeting, right? >> Hey, George, we did see that that's uh AJ showed us that spreadsheet a little bit last week, the forecasting tool. >> Oh, good. Yeah. Really good. >> Yeah. No, I I'll I'll tell you all about
it when we get to that. Um I think you're all gonna I Yeah, I I'll tell you all about it and um I'm want to hear feedback and let's let's refine it together. >> Yeah, I gave them sort of a just kind of the preview of like
>> That's good. That's good. So, it won't be >> go through in any detail. So, I think we can do that tonight. And I think given that we don't have uh other big items tonight, that that'll be >> good. Yeah, we can make some real progress on it. >> Yeah. Okay, here we go. Uh
congratulations by the way, Jim. >> I think I I think did I congratulate? Yes, I did. We were together. That's right. >> Well, twice is always nice, too. >> Nothing wrong with that. >> But thanks. Yeah, you're going to do a great job.
>> Yeah, we're looking forward to it. >> Yeah, I'm looking forward to it and working with you all in a different kind of way. >> That's right. >> That um that reminds me Brennan sent like
a list of like all appointments and he has both April and you on on the on the FinCom list. So, I've got to send him a message uh >> to to update him. Um and then and then
that triggered in my mind like I know I've had conversations um with Netti about there being two spots, but >> and now then I had a moment where I was like, "Wait, I hope Netty has fully absorbed that." But um anyway, I sent
her a message. I haven't heard back from her yet, but >> yeah, >> I emailed her a while ago. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um All right. So, here's April 28th. So, let's look at this. Uh All right. Don't go. I don't remember anything
about it. TM. Okay. >> Did not have any corrections. >> Yeah. Anybody have any um suggestions? Okay. So, I'll make a motion to approve the April 28th minutes
as written. >> Second. >> Second. Cashew I >> Moerie >> Steini >> Walton tonight. >> All right. Then we'll go to April 7th.
>> Yeah. May 7th was the presentation before the annual town meeting. >> Yeah. >> God, that was so long ago. >> You know, when the weather gets warmer, the clock moves faster. Yeah. >> I know.
This just occurs to me like all of our budget documents that we shared um in advance of annual town meeting. Do they do they live in that on that page or do they get moved over? Does anybody know exactly where those
>> I will look. Yeah, I think they're on the uh I think there's a special page in our four town meetings and I'm pretty sure that's where you find them. Susie, >> I see it. So then there's like an archive of all the Okay, >> if you go to Yeah, because I've seen them. I've gone back and looked for them. >> Yeah,
>> when I do some of our stuff and um there's some there's something under town governance. There's town meeting. Yeah, there's um on the town meeting page there is our budget report and the budget.
>> Got it. >> So, but we also put up some other things. So, I wonder if they're under fin. Let's see where are we here. >> We put up the capex. >> Yeah. Uh >> yeah, the and the school budgets are up
there on the fincom >> page. So I guess if we want to ask for them to be saved in some way, I could ask um Gail Fly Shacker to figure that out. >> When you say saved in some way, what do
you mean? Well, they're on our page um under the FY20 the warrant um the warrant guide our report expense and revenue schools and capex but I don't
think things stay there. Um there's nothing from the previous year and because I'm looking at the fincom page. So um so the this this is a problem in uh figuring it out where things sit and how they get saved.
>> Yeah. I mean I'm just thinking out loud here. Wouldn't it make sense to have a folder for each year and just have each year's collection of budget documents? >> Yeah. I think I should suggest that to her and it should sit on the FINCOM page. Yeah.
Yeah. So, like that what I should do? >> Yeah, I think that does sound right. So, it would be like this is what our FCOM page looks like right now. >> Um, so like yeah, all of this will live here now until next year and which in
which at which time presumably it all get it comes down and gets replaced with FY28 materials. Whereas under town meeting the only budget documents that get >> right
>> maintained here are the our report and our budget. Uh I wonder if this is both the expense and revenue. >> Right. So, we also might ask for those
um the reports that Laura and I did. >> Just create a folder for each year that sits on the page and has everything that was put up. >> Yeah, I think I think that makes sense. >> Yeah, it does make sense. >> It's worth noting that the budget is even it's just the expense budget. They
don't even they don't even have the uh the revenue. >> I would add one thing to that too, Susie. If you're going to talk to Gail Yeah. and and that is last year when this year when it was time to create the
new budget template, I needed the FY25 actual FY25 actual spend. And you know those documents that Gail started putting up there um the expense reports, all of FY25's disappeared when the new year started
>> and so those should also be archived >> under a certain year. >> Yeah. So each maybe on the FINCOM page each year should have a folder for all the documents that got put up. And there was I had to chase down getting the right um version that special town
meeting version of FY26. It got it wasn't around. It's like well labor. >> Yeah. >> Well, the just one caveat, one thing I just the the expense reports are under the governance. I think wherever they're under, there should be a folder there
for those in that folder, not necessarily in the fincom, >> don't you think? >> Yeah, I she does have a way of paying attention to where everything is shared to. So, it's put up in multiple pages. >> Yes. >> I will talk to her and I will explain
what we're looking for. And yeah, I think it can be on two places, but it's like the school committee budgets aren't showing up anywhere other than our page. >> I I think the simplest solution is the one you suggested, Susie, which is there's just a there's a bucket, a
folder for each year, and then we can put everything in there. We can put the the report, the final budgets, um the the fiscal updates that you do, the school budgets, the capex, like you
know, everything for that year can can go in there. >> You mean like everything that we have in the Google Drive. >> Uhhuh. I you know I I'm not I'm not sure I would put the departmental budgets in there but because those end up basically >> right
>> I agree I agree with that >> but yeah >> kind of the main documents. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh I think the I think the capital plan even though it's not a fin document is even something that could potentially live you know be linked there. Uh so yeah I
think that would be great. All right, let's go back to the seventh. >> Uh, so May 7th. >> Yeah. These are really detailed. This is good. >> Yeah, I got a little crazy on that one.
>> Good. >> Information session went well and information's out there. People can see it. Yeah. >> All right. This looks great. I don't have any suggestions. Anybody have any? >> No. >> Good.
>> Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from May 7th as written. >> Second. >> Uber. I >> cashew I. >> Moer. I >> Stein. I >> Walton. I
And then we have the 26, right? Yep. >> Yes. >> All right. Submit our line to line trans. >> I I just I had one one comment. and I wasn't in the meeting. So, but I I just
had one comment. Um, as soon as I save this thing here, um, at the very bottom, I just want to mention under the list of projects, >> I'm sorry, >> seven >> summer projects. >> Yeah. Um,
one of the things that was missing, AJ, I wanted to just bring up was we were also going to meet with, and maybe it's a subcategory in one of these and I'm not aware of it. Um, Brendan, not Brendan, his brother Ryan to talk about our debt service to get the what's
currently >> um outstanding, when is it going to come due or what are the annual payments over how many years, what's the interest? so that we could look at how we're going to prepare for the firetruck. >> Yeah.
>> And possibly a greater if in fact we are requested to purchase a greater next year. I did talk to Dave and Dave said there is no grant for next year. He had mentioned to me he had told me that if we don't get it this year, we'll we'll apply for the grant again next year, you
know, and I talked to him last week and he said, "Uh, that's not an option." So >> not there's Okay. So So there's no funding for next year um for a new round of uh not new round of grants. That's right.
Which means that he would have to use as much chapter 90 money as he's willing to, which he's not sure what that is until he finishes this year's projects. And the rest would have to be funded. You know, we'd have to figure figure it out. Um, >> and I did see in your minutes, you know,
you in these minutes that there was a lot of discussion about the alternatives to buying one. So, that's good. That that'll probably have to happen. But again, I think it would be good. I This is my personal feeling is if we sat down and talked to Ryan. >> Yeah. >> And got a handle on where we are in debt
service and what can we do. I know I floated one idea and it's just an idea. I don't even know if it'll work or not, but if we were able to take stabilization at some amount 150,000, pay off some loans and create capacity in the budget for the firetruck loan.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I think in terms of the minutes, I think what we can what I would suggest is that we tack on >> a sentence at the end of C here. >> Yeah. I mean, only if you did did talk about it. I'm mostly bringing this up just to make sure it happens. That's
all. Let me look. >> I mean, I know we talked about it. I can't recall if it was that meeting or a different >> guess we could talk about it today. I'm not >> Yeah, I I can put it in the minutes today and just as a reminder.
>> Yeah. >> All right, let me do that. And I think I think the the timing of that conversation, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's it probably it needs to happen after we see an updated capital plan, right? Because
we want to see what part of what we're asking him to do is tell us what the debt schedule for current projects are. and then mapping the capital the long the the
long range capital plan on to that. what additional projects may need to be funded in which years and what are his preliminary thoughts about how do we would plan for that and how we might uh >> one the one other thing that might
affect the timeline about solving this problem would be um letting Dave if we work out a plan where some funds come from here some funds come from chapter 90 um he didn't spend them all out from
2025 yet. So, um but we need to get give him a heads up if we decide to use some money from chapter 90. >> Yeah, I I I can agree with those things. Um it's probably not that urgent. Um he did Ryan did tell us that he would send
us a list of what's outstanding now and the the payments for each, you know, how much in each of the next four or five years. I think the only one that stretches beyond two or three years is the covert loan. Um, at the very least it would be good to have that, but I
agree we don't have to jump into this analysis so soon. >> All right, I'm going to make a note to um ask Ryan about that current schedule because I haven't seen it yet. Uh, >> because I think what I'll do in that
conver in that email is I'll give him a heads up that, you know, we're also thinking of um speaking with him, you know, in late summer uh potentially to review
uh a new capital long range capital plan document that's being put together by the capital planning committee and that we would like to kind of talk through that with him to help sort of project what some of our
um borrowing costs might be in, you know, for the next 5 10 years. >> Sounds good. >> All right. >> One other thing I saw in here was in in in the minutes that Susie had sent out u
was a conversation about funding I'm trying to find it now. The PAS loan and did we actually put PAS loan in FY27? Do you remember that conversation? >> Yeah. I can't I I can't see where it is
in here, but it was my understanding that it turned out that it was in buried in another line in the budget. >> This is 3B. Um after the tigen bond letter came, um
we looked at what we had and how it shows up in the budget and um what some of the possible pieces are. Um and that that letter um didn't really explain what they were
proposing their billing for and didn't reflect how it moved from quarterly to semiannually in terms of it didn't change the money didn't change. just like really? Um, so the upshot of that was Haley was
going to um work on clarifying the the proposal and the costs. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And I still need to follow up with Ryan about this question of why the FY27 budget
>> Oh, yeah. only includes PAS interest costs, not and I I don't know if that was like like an interestonly loan or something like that where we're not actually paying down principle, but I I I don't >> George, you don't have any knowledge
about that, do you? >> Could you repeat that again? So, one of the things we were trying to wrap our heads around was that the FY27 budget includes an expense for PAS for interest on the
PAS loan, but not a principal payment on that loan. >> Oh, that's weird. Hold on. >> Three 3F. Can you roll it up to show 3F? >> Uh, yeah. It was my understanding that it was in the WPAT loan line. I thought
or it was in water quality. I thought if we I'd have to go back to previous minutes because it might have been noted in the minutes, but >> I thought that Gail told one of us might have been you Susie that >> the principal was actually
somewhere else and being paid out of another line. We've had so many conversations. It's hard to remember all these. >> Yeah. Right. >> Remembering is not our best verb. >> We need some young young minds on this committee. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Um let me just I'm taking a quick look at the budget. Yeah. And we I don't think we had it in the notes. I thought it was water quality, but maybe it was the WPAT loan. >> Yeah. Maybe we just need to get a clarification on that. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> But I think it was in there. I I I do recall that it was just we all breathed the side of >> buried somewhere else. Yeah, you're right. I do remember this now. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you think this is a Gail question or a Ryan question? >> I think it was Gail. I think because Gail pays the bill, she has to know where to pay it out of.
>> Okay. So, I'll ask her. All right. Uh but I do see a PE fast principal loan and a prefast interest loan in the budget. We have both. >> Let's see. >> What line is that?
>> Line 208 is the PAS loan and line 213 is the PAS interest portion of that loan. But there's two bands. Yeah. >> And I think one of them's here and the other one is buried somewhere else.
>> And given the size of these, I don't think it's in the WPAT. Yeah. I think it is a question for Gail. >> Yeah. But, you know, uh, reading through these notes, looking at the numbers for this and and obviously the comment that you
all made in the previous meeting, it's this isn't capital. This is operating and we need to build this into the budget. Another $106,000 in the budget really. So 208 is the PAS loan
in the principal section and 213 is the interest and the WPAT is under 205 principal. Yeah, we need
>> we need to have it all identified. Um yeah, >> even it would be good to label it >> in the budget that way. But um there was something about this because I looked and looked now I don't that was a long time ago. May something.
>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Uh I I'll give Gail a shout and see if she can help us understand this. All right. Um >> do you want me to take that on or do you want to do it? H how's your time doing?
Uh, no, that's fine. I don't I don't mind reaching out to her because I I can >> she sent me a message about um she responded to my uh question about linetoline transfer. So, I can I thank you. >> Okay.
>> All right. So, uh wait, I lost the minutes. Okay, here we go. All right. Anybody else have anything else on these minutes? All right. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as amended here.
>> Second. >> Overnight. Uh, abstain. >> Cashew. I moer. I >> Oh, I Walton I. All right. Great. Okay. Uh let's see.
Let me share a couple updates and then I'll see if any of you guys have updates from any committees that might be meeting. Although I suspect this is a slow time, but um so I met with
uh a group of people at the school last week to talk about this question of like all of these different projects that are being discussed that are all connected in some way because they have implications for
the school parking lot. Um, and so there was a meeting that Haley pulled together with her, um, Ann McIll, um, Caitlyn, finance director, Shannon, the superintendent,
um, Nate from the school committee, uh, Matt the custodian at the elementary school, and I think I think that was it. Unfortunately, there was a little mixup
and um Michael Diierra and Frank McInn showed up at 10 10 o'clock. We were there at 9:00. So, so they we ended up wrapping up the meeting right as those guys got to the school. So, we did a we
talked to them for a little bit. But the the it was a productive meeting. I'll just say that I think the most important thing development was that I think it was sort of like the first time where this that group of people all got
together to to to commit to a process of like actually coordinating all of these different projects. So, just I think to just to list them, there's um a bunch of problematic areas on the
school sidewalk, particularly around that entrance we all use for town meetings and and whatnot. Um, and apparently there have been at least a few stumbles there and there's concern about it being a safety hazard. So,
there's that. There's the the parking lot itself which not only needs to be repaved and we've been hearing about this for years but there's I think some design questions about it as well. the bus
right the bus route right now it like essentially for for various traffic reasons ends up like driving over that island in the middle of the lot like pretty routinely
and so I think there's um an interest in since the lot needs to be repaved let's actually think about the ideal layout and traffic pattern and whatnot So, there's that. Um, there's an oil
tank buried in the center underneath that center island that um was having some leaking issues. It looks like it that has been at least for the moment
been resolved, but there may be um some contamination and we may be we may be required to dig that thing up at at some point. And we may maybe more importantly there's an interest in proactively
you know moving away from oilbased um heating at the school and transitioning to um a non you know uh fossil fuelbased
system. So there's that. Um there's like a water uh tank, fire mitigation tank that is going to need to be placed buried somewhere on the school property.
Um and so like all of these things. Did I miss any of the anything else? S >> well then the ground grounds. So, so one of those alternatives that I think folks are interested in is the opportunity to um
uh transition to a ground source um >> heat pump >> heat pump system which would basically provide heating and cooling. I'm not an expert, so folks should fill me in. But I think the process is basically involves like digging bore holes, a
bunch of them. Um, it would be further up the the the the parking lot, the driveway, having um lines essentially connected to uh the school and feeding the existing
air circulating system in the school. And I assume those lines get filled with with or um utilize groundwater and maybe some antifreeze or something. I'm not sure, but some something like that. Um
so uh so and then another alternative would be just the more conventional um like mini splits that you know could be installed um for for heating and cooling purposes. So those are all different projects that
are at different stages of of discussion and I think there was a lot of there was some concern I think particularly like on school committee's part I'm sure the principal I know you know from the fincom like
all of these like the the worst case scenario would be we we pursue one of these projects start spending money like significant money on them um appropriating money for these things only to have to do to change course and
do a totally different thing because we decide we want to do one of these other projects or that this this is not a good solution given these other things that we need to do. So I think the positives that came out of this meeting is there's now like a group that is going that that
has been sort of briefed on this that is going to be in communication anytime there's like an important decision point um you know along uh to discuss uh along the way and
I think importantly um that we got the school people in particular to articulate the sort of most desirable outcome so that we can kind of work backwards from there and
see like is can we let's see if we can accomplish this and then you know if that's not if for some reason that's not going to work then we can look at sort of alternative paths. It was the the the consensus view on the part of superintendent principal Nate
from the school committee um uh is that this exploring this um ground source uh heat pump system would be the the most desirable outcome. and then dealing
with these other things like taking out the the oil tank, maybe putting the the water tank in its place, repaving the parking lot, all of that can happen as
um you know uh in in in coordination with that project. Okay, so that's the most desirable thing. The good news is that a application has been sub a proposal has been submitted that Michael Deier's energy ec
has sort of overseen and has has been submitted. He's quite um uh confident that we're going to win that grant. It will provide $150,000 to essentially do like a feasibility
design study process over the next year basically. And if it's determined that we are a good candidate for that system, they will essentially write the
one of the deliverables will be an application for a construction grant which would be more around like I think an a million dollar um ask at at that point. Um, and so the thought is like,
let's not go ahead now and spend money to repave the parking lot while we're in the process of of determining whether that that um groundwater
uh heating system can be can can move forward. So everybody I think felt comfortable with that that that thinking and there was an agreement that yeah we don't want to go ahead spend money and start pursuing a
construction project that may not be compatible with that most desirable outcome. Okay. So that's that's where we are the the in the short term the and so if this if if it turns out we are a good
candidate for this transition that the con the timing of the construction on that is most likely going to be summer 28. Okay. Um in the short term there is money that's been appropriated already.
I think $24,000 to spend on some sidewalk repairs, which do seem like the more the most kind of short-term urgent need among all of these things that we've been talking about. So, I think the school is going
to essentially rip up the that concrete sort of uh paver in that area of the sidewalk and replace it with asphalt, which I think everybody, including Matt, thinks will be easier to maintain and will will help
with kind of snow and ice as well. So, the >> only that's going to happen in 27, it sounds like, is some localized repair on specific problematic areas in the sidewalk.
>> AJ, I was going to ask um >> don't I think we have some money sitting $25,000 available for that project. >> That's the 24. They returned all the other um when projects came in under budget, they returned all that except for that one
because that was originally a sidewalk deal um and the drainage off the roof and they held on to that. So that's planned for that sidewalk. I think it's 24K. >> Good. That's great. >> You're absolutely right, George. And what I what I told them was that if if
that's not going to be sufficient to address this the the most urgent set of sidewalk needs um which I don't think anybody really knows then the then you know there may be um a supplemental appropriation that
might need to happen at a special or special town meeting in the fall. But they're still they did they they have two bids, >> but it's like the bids were for a larger scope than just fixing the sidewalk. So
I think they're doing the research of well what would it cost just to do that sidewalk piece. >> Okay, good. >> So I think that's what's happening on the school front. Um, >> some couple other pieces is that the
mini split option is coming from the rapid or whatever they use the word from the MSBA, the accelerated um, funding from the MSBA and Caitlyn is going to apply for that. >> I think that um, there was a discussion
of like, well, if you do the ground source, would you still need to do the mini splits? thing about the mini splits is like I've been in the school right now it's hot it's very hot and so they may end up being able to do both. Um,
and the other piece that became clear, this has been going on for a year of sort of back and forth, including, oh, here's a new idea, let's do ground source. Oh, here's a new idea, let's do this. And so um
how these projects aside from talking having a group of people that should be notified for every step forward, it's also who is responsible for um supervising and being the point person
on school projects. And so um you know I think in the past that's been our town administrator, but we have a different building committee than we used to have. And so, um, AJ and I talked about,
um, getting Frank to be the point person on this sidewalk part. It's already been approved by town meeting that there would be sidewalk repair. Um Frank knows a lot about this project, but it's it's really um we've run into this idea of
maintenance repair and what the school's responsible for and what the town's responsible for, but it's also like who who who play pays attention, who does the work. And in some of the things that were going on, I was concerned cuz I do
the school leaison and I listen. I wasn't sure that everybody understood the procurement rules. Um, and so, um, if Frank is the point person on this sidewalk project and he stays in touch
with Haley, and I don't believe there's even I don't know if there's going to be a bid process um, for it at that size of project, but um, we needed to talk about having the people that move the things forward
instead of it spinning back and forth. And and one of the things that happened with the school is that an struggled through the boiler issues with Jamrog and figuring out what was going on. And at the end of that, it was clear that
her job is to be a school principal and there's lots of things she has to do. So really having a sense of who helps take care of the maintenance, the repairs, and and getting that person to um agree that it's their responsibility and then
take initiative. And it doesn't have to be in a vacuum, but it does have to be some kind of leadership. >> Yeah. And to and to communicate with the vendors, right? Because like I feel like that trying to >> And communicate with who? vendors, right, who were actually doing the work,
right? >> I feel like we'd I I'd recall a couple years ago where we would run into like a little bit of a problem where like, you know, somebody would be like at the school to work on something and they'd get a message from they get one message from like, you know, the building
committee and then a different message when they would talk to like Matt, this custodian. And it's like that's never a good good thing when different people are communicating different sets of instructions for the people that are actually doing the >> and and this is consistent with what
Haley was saying about, you know, having a a facility manager. >> Yeah. >> Somebody who could take on all those roles because I think the discussion about the principal wants to be a principal not responsible for the building applies to the library >> and I think it could apply even to the
highway department. I mean, anybody who's who's using a building. >> Well, the the part of that identifying that has also come from Frank because when they watch the library come up and the systems that were involved and they're under warranty and supervision
for a year, he said uh the building committee cannot be the responsible party for these. So, um we will have to wrestle with that. Um, we we were able to have this work done mostly by Becky. Um, and she was very familiar with a lot
of mechanical things. Um, so if we're going to change it, we also need to plug that into our structure. Who's the who's the top person? Who do they communicate with? Who gets to make those decisions? When I after I talked to AJ, I wasn't
able to go to that meeting. Then my mind has been spinning about this and Dave said to me, "So when you have a snowb blower, where do you blow the snow?" Um, so they used to have a plow, a sidewalk plow, and now they're going to have a blower. And it's like, well, I guess
they would blow over here. He said, "Well, if they get there before the plow, the town plow, they can blow it into the p into the parking lot and they can move it." But when you think about that building, the whole east side has all those sheds. you can't you can't blow the snow that way and you don't
blow it against the school. And so it's this kind of thinking that we don't I maybe they've already figured it out. I'd be happy if Matt had figured out how he was going to do that, but it's just kind of like one thing after another. >> He must have because he may he was the
one who said, "We don't need a tractor. Give us snowblowers." He had to think through that decision. No, >> I don't know. But it just cuz because this um ECAT project is going to um probably come into the east end of the building. That's where the mechanical
room is. So it's like, oh yeah, well that's where we want to fix that sidewalk. Well, that's okay. We'll fix the sidewalk before some kid falls and smashes their face. And we have to plot if we have to rip it up again. That's just a little piece. But it it's the sequence of things. And um AJ said that
the work we had at town meeting we approved a loan I mean a spending to Birkshere design about the parking lot and that information will be relevant. They're taking core samples to figure out what's underneath it and what kind of pavement you would need. So without
going into doing it that information is relevant. But it's it's been this way for this year. What's the cart before the horse? So, I think the meeting they had will help decide what is the sequence, but uh somebody needs to keep
looking and saying, in fact, David thinks that there's still a bucket over that, um vent that was draining water into the into the boiler system. It's like, yeah, okay, somebody needs to be the person seeing that. And maybe a bucket is fine solution. I don't
>> Right. But they should at least be aware of it and make that determination. I mean, >> yeah. And what kind of bucket really? But but I also think as you're talking though, you know, it shouldn't be volunteer committee people should not be man, you know, the the coordinating all
this. It really I think at this point needs to fall in the town administrator. I don't see another way to do that. I think she can do it with the building committee because the difference of this building committee when they took out the old one and put in a new charge, you
can see the the level of detail in the charge. Yes. >> And so >> there has to be some real talking back and talking to each other. >> And one caveat, one thing I'll just say is sometimes you get a person who comes in and they're enthusiastic and they take the reigns and they take care of a
lot of stuff and then they leave and it doesn't get done anymore. And so it's the point of a policy, right, is to have a process set in place in stone. And I hate to say people are interchangeable, but over time people are going to be interchanging. And we need to make sure that these things continue to survive.
>> Personnel change. >> This might end up being something the select board really needs to focus on. Yeah. >> You know, how do how do we do this? You know, the coordinating um and Becky was able to do this. This was a really glue.
>> She was the glue. Haley has other glue, but this may not be her glue. >> But we need still need the policy very very clear. Um >> just um one thing you just reminded me of Susie just a just a detail here is
that the I think a significant portion of this scope of work that the Birkshere design group has been funded for is to do a comprehensive survey of the parking lot area and including like you know
testing at various points to see what the you know what the um >> substrates are at various places. And I think the hope is is that that's that's a product that is going to be needed for
all any of these projects that are going to require us to rip up um parts of the parking lot. So yeah, >> and right and so the funding for that has already been approved, right? That was a town meeting. So that work is going on even if they decide that the
parking lot project is not necessarily >> Yeah. Although I did get the the impression that they were under that that they were under the impression that they couldn't start the actual work until July 1, even though I think we had
a conversation at a recent meeting where we said no, it's it's it's possible for them to do that. But in any event, um >> that's Gail's cool. >> Yeah, exactly. So in any event, as of last week, they hadn't actually started
>> do any work. At least that's that was the message that was communicated at that meeting. Um so anyway, but should be starting soon. Okay. So that's that's it on the
elementary school stuff. Um, I just wanted to let you guys know that this um that this four towns group kind of informal group is still meeting
periodically. I'm I'm getting sort of like le less and less optimistic that like anything sort of concrete is going to like come out of all of this because it's so it's so complicated and and and
that you know the regional school committee has so much on their plate and the superintendent has so much on her plate uh that it's just hard to see how like I think we're all wanting to
everybody to like commit to doing this kind of more long-term kind of thinking and planning. And in any event, I did want to let you know that this this group still gets
together like via Zoom like every six weeks or so. Um I'm going to share with you a document. We have I have a homework assignment which is related to something that was discussed and you'll
probably recall this which is like wanting to be able to document a more complete picture of what education spending um
looks like from each of the member towns in the in the regional district. beyond the sort of basic things that are easy to pull out from our budgets like our, you know, appropriation for the elementary school, our assessment from
the regional school, our debt service. Um so uh you know things like you know a portion a percentage of our retirement uh and health insurance benefits
are obviously go to you know compensating school employees for example. And so like those kinds of things like um the uh the amount of of of of cash reserves that we apply
uh specifically for school related costs is you know uh so anyway this is the template that Brian Harvey from Ammerst has put together and um I'm going to attempt to fill out although we did
actually tried to do this earlier this year. It sort of stalled a little bit, but um we we're kind of recommitting to do this and then um basically pull it together so that we can have a kind of
more complete picture of what each town um is sp actually spending on education related costs. So, um, when I fill this out, I'm going to send it to all of you, if you could, if you see things that you
have questions about or you think things are missing. Um, if you can email me back, but don't reply all. I just just reply to me. Um, because I I don't want to violate the open meeting rules and whatnot. Um, with those kinds of
questions and comments, that would be great. Okay, >> AJ, is this something uh you're gonna need Gail support on or Haley or Haley or? >> Yeah, I think I did get some support
from Gail already because when we first talked about the idea of doing this, I had asked her to estimate what proportion of our um >> That was Ryan. >> Oh, that was Ryan, right? of our fringe
benefits are, you know, go to school employees. So, that information did um that he he he came up with a percentage. I it's in my email. I can't remember if it was 75% or 60. I >> think it was 65.
>> I'll pull it up, but it was something like that. >> We we made a chart, right? >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, so, um, I may need Gail. Uh, I mean, I there's some stuff that I
think is going to be kind of impossible. I'm not sure how I'm going to do it. So, if you look at these items here, so this was like very important to Ammerst. you know, they were like very keen on including this, you know, because, you know, they I and
I get kind of get it because it's their DPW that I think maintains the the athletic fields. And so that, you know, that's a pretty significant piece of, you know, like bit of work that they do. So somehow, I
don't know how they're going to do this, they're going to have their DPW sort of estimate how much time they spend on maintenance tasks related to So I suppose I could ask >> Yeah. Dave Grenier, what is the time for
plowing out the school? >> Yeah. Um, do they do they cut the the grass on the big school field? Well, I was I was thinking that they um might because when they gave up the tractor,
it gave up the mower, I believe. So, um and the mowing is really um the soccer field and the track field. So, yeah. >> Yeah, >> he can fill you in. >> Yeah. So, I I'll ask Dave for that. So, that obviously 12 is not something that
we contribute to, but um but for 11, I'll ask Dave for that. But >> and also when when you get from the uh the elementary school budget, the maintenance elements, >> you could pull from there from their from their budget
>> except if it's part of the elementary budget, it's going to be in this in this elementary appropriation cell, you know. So the idea of this was to think about costs that fall outside of the appropriation.
So like what what are things we spend money on >> that don't that we don't actually see >> are part of the appropriation for in this case the elementary school or the regional assessment and so >> those jamro those jamro bills get that
got paid by the fin and the other couple things. Yeah >> that's that's a good that's that's an excellent example. Um, so yeah, like those kinds of emergency repair things that we're always doing at the heating system at the school. Um,
uh, is a perfect example of that. So, um, so I would add those to the sort of elementary grounds and maintenance. So, yeah. So, it's things like that, Jim. It's things like, you know, we don't have a health insurance line in the elementary school budget, right? We have
a health insurance line for all town employees, but 65% of those employees are school employees. So, we have to, >> you know, that that's money that we're spending on education related costs, but
that that are sort of hidden if you're only paying attention to the elementary school appropriations >> and also Medicare, workers comp, and also a part of that health insurance is also retired teachers, >> right? So the the op. >> Yeah.
>> Yes. Yeah. >> The fact that at the regional school any excess or deficiency is kept inside the regional budget in our town. That money comes back as free cash, right? So
there's a there's a trail there. Um >> so that's actually a really good qu that's a very good point, Susie. Like there's not a there's not a line in this worksheet that we use to record money that gets
back gets sent back at the end of the year, which we probably should include. So you're it's an excellent point. Yeah. >> It also doesn't know look like it includes projected maintenance like this project we're doing on on the uh parking lot. We don't have it's not fixed yet
but it will it is going to hit the town at some point. >> So this Yeah. So this is this is specifically for FY25 but there is um >> like there is a line for capital >> Yeah. >> cost. So like if we like we've done this
right like we had let me think we had a year where we spent money on cameras right we didn't borrow money we allocated free cash for uh security cameras at the school right this year we
have that curtain whatever it's called the the that system um divider system uh in the multi-purpose room we we are spending free cash for that. So that so that that
that has to be reported under the elementary capital. So um so it's those kinds of things we do want to capture. Um which you know for Ammerst is a huge thing because you know they're building
a whole school. So, and they they obviously want to they want to capture that as um uh as education related spending that they're that they're doing for for good reason. But yeah, so
>> so what are they what are they going to do with this? >> Yeah. So I it's a good question. I can say that the vibe I get from this group is not that it's like the point is to say, well, this town is spending way more than this other town. It didn't it
doesn't it it it's not feeling like that's the the goal or the purpose. Um but I think the purpose is I think is is in part like the school committee has has made um
a point um at various times about what how much sort of the proportion of total municipal spending that is spent on ed on the ed on the ed education costs like
that that's a there's a number that this that the school committee has shared and I think they've made an argument that that p as a proportion that that number has declined in recent years. Um, and I
think the I think the the the thought here is is partly that like there's a desire to get um a more comprehensive complete account of like well what do we actually
spend in in each year on on these costs? I think that's the primary purpose is to be able to to to have um a more accurate uh sense of what yeah what of of what
each community is spending on education related costs. Susie, >> there was a part of the meeting when the group that included Deb Leonard >> presented sort of factoids. Um and in it
in it they included that there were all sorts of um decreases in um programming and stuff like that and some of that helps in the argument with towns who've been saying cut it cut it you know and so um having a number that's more
complete and looking at it over time they're going to see that in fact there has been a reduction in the education and when we did that pi high um which doesn't include all these factors. In fact, we are having some things go up in
our budget. So, the education piece is smaller proportionately. So, there's there's lots of um thinking oh thinking that'd be good. Um instead of just reacting, this would be some facts that could help um show some of
those um forces. But April, you asked that question and I think and and and as I sit here, I I'm thinking this is something we're going to have to manage, right? Like this is it's like this it's good to have information, right? And I think I think
we probably would all agree that it's a good thing for for us to have a more complete understanding of what because we talk about this all the time. what percentage of our budget is spent on on education costs that but you know in
fairness that is a little bit of a misleading um number because of these sort of I don't want to call them hidden costs but there are other >> indirect costs indirect costs that where it's not obvious that but it but it
certainly is fair to say that these are these are costs that pertain to what it what it requires ires to educate children, operate a school. So >> simple math in the budget says it's 57% when we take the total education, but
then we all say, well, it's more like, you know, 2/3. So it would be good to have to focus in on that. >> Yes. >> And not all towns do that distribution the same way. That's one of the big significant things. >> Yeah. And it looks like at least for this analysis, all four towns would be
if they all are from >> show it out, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I say go going back to April's comment >> again once you get a good handle on what the real number is what do you do >> what will we do different >> right >> u
>> we should change the assessment the assessment method should be changed >> but yeah that that is sort of so what do you do with it >> because it's it's only one point I think you said is it 2025 five year. So it's not so we're not going to learn we're
not going to learn that we're spending more or less. >> We've got one point >> we're starting with this year. I think we're also going to do FY26. But I think I think right now >> the focus is on like getting a template and because this is the other thing is
this idea somebody just said it like being able to make more kind of like apples to apples kinds of >> um comparisons um because there are some differences. Emmerce, they do have some, if I recall correctly, they do have some health
insurance costs that are in their school appropriation, but it's not all of there's like a there are certain categories of employees that get paid >> when they pay their insurance bill. They actually break it into two lines, regular employees and and elementary
school employees, >> something like that. So, like part of what this accomplishes too is it it sort of like allows us to do kind of a more apples to apples kind of comparison across town. >> I'd be curious if they do their elementary school budgeting
>> in the same frame that they do in their regional school because one of the things in talking to Caitlyn is that that is part of the place it becomes differentiated. The way a regional school runs its budget >> is specifically framed differently, but
I don't know. I don't know if their elementary school >> has their health in their elementary school budgets. I don't know. >> It sounds like AJ thinks they do. I mean, that's what AJ said, right? >> I I I it's for certain I I don't know
exactly, but I but it's it's for certain groups or categories of employees it does. And then for others it doesn't and I I can't tell you right now what the different like what the differentiation is but I'll find out and but it is yeah
um it is there. So I suspect that um yeah well we we'll get clarity on that once once we get this information >> and and if this is done annually that this really could over a short period of time relatively >> point you know give some important data.
I think that that would make sense. >> Yeah. My only concern is when you when you start looking at this kind of data, it's it becomes political and >> you know if our numbers be or somebody's numbers become lower, people start saying, "Well, look, you know, they're you know, they don't have as great of a
need." I just >> that's always a concern, but >> you can't take the politics. >> Definitely something to manage. You're right. Um data is is good but it's like um and information is good but >> it's like h how do people leverage this
for for different sort of outcomes that they're pursuing is >> analyze responsibly. >> Yeah. >> Well and particularly because Pelum is in a real big transition of some sort you know that that >> Yeah. >> And how is that going to shake out? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um
>> um you're reminding me that we we need to we we need to touch base with there's this group uh I I I think we talked about this. There's a there's a panel that was put together and and created by
the Pelum Select Board to essentially forecast a few different models um for their elementary school costs. One of the models was like a status quo model of continuing to run their elementary
school. Um, one of them was to have those students tuition uh into other neighboring schools. Uh, I can't remember the third one I feel like
was but something to do with um like maybe the the school how they how they do school choice. I can't remember now, but there were like three or four different models. So I think that work they were given a deadline
>> of like I think in September or something like that. So, I think they might be like, you know, winding down their work this summer. And I think we should probably get an update on what they've Yeah. what
what what they learned and um and maybe even I don't know maybe um uh sort of reinforce the idea that we're open to conversations if it you know if it feels uh
>> like a appropriate time for >> some something like that. Yeah. I'm gonna next time I talk to John I'm gonna mention that. Unfortunately, he's not on this group, but uh but obviously he talks to them. All
right. So, that's what's happening. Uh town. I think the goal, if there is like a clear goal, is to like for this group is to have the school committee commit to
working with towns on not just single-year budget questions and concerns. They do that's what dominates to the extent that we do any planning together with the the school the superintendent the finance director the
school committee and representatives of town select boards town councils finance it's all focused on the upcoming you know fiscal year budget and we never have an opportunity to do any kind of long-term thinking well if it's if it's
the case if we can all agree that we're not we're on a sort of unsustainable path, not sustainable path. Then what are some structural reforms that are worth considering including the you know this, you know,
>> is there a statement of purpose for this group? I mean because >> there's Yeah, I mean there's like draft memos that like different people have. I wouldn't call it like a mission statement, but there are um
>> yeah, I'll I'll I'll pull together a few of the documents that I think I've shared them, but like this is going back a ways, so I'll I'll I'll share them with you. >> Who else is in it besides you, Brian Harvey, Steven Weiss?
>> Um it is um from Lever. It's Stephen Weiss and uh Pat Patricia Duffy is it? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh, from Pelum it's Bob. Um, >> Agolia.
>> Agolia. Uh, from Ammerst it's uh it's Lynn Brian Harvey and it's um Kathy Shane. >> Shane. Yeah. Shane. >> Shane. Yeah. Uh and then that's it. And uh Haley comes
sometimes. So she's very I've been joining when I can regularly. Um, Jim, I've without talking to you, I did tell folks that the select Shootsbury select board has a new member who has lots of finance
committee expertise and and is very engaged on these um, issues, you know, going back to the assessment method questions. So, I think once you start your term, I think there's a seed has been planted that there's a hope that
you'll you'll be able to engage with this this group. Um >> Okay. Is it right now it's just you and Haley? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> From Yeah. Okay. Sure. >> Yeah. No, and it sort of fits with some of the things we're doing, we're working on. >> Exactly.
>> Yeah. Uh, and it's it's definitely I will say it's like if it I'm not sure as I said earlier like I'm not sure this group is going to accomplish a lot like um uh of sort of like concrete
uh steps that we're going to be able to point to. But it I it definitely feels like the most kind of collegial sort of atmosphere that I think has existed probably among town >> getting together to talk about school finance related stuff
>> and that's important. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's easy. >> And I think that as much as we struggled to get the assessment methods settled, the last couple of years, you can hear some people saying, "Well, let's look at that again."
>> I believe this body of information coming from a different starting point when it's not oppositional will help sustain a picture that justifies the um assessment method we're using.
>> Yeah. And the other piece is the state is still like way over all over the place. Um so we know that chapter 70 funding is different among the towns. It's not simply um there's there's
factors in there and so hopefully they are going to work on the chapter 70 formula that's in the plan. >> Um and maybe they can start being more predictable and stable. They are not right now. They need to come up with a method that
is appropriate for what's going on. >> But I think sometimes people are wishing that the state's going to ride in with something as like, well, that's not helping. >> Hasn't happened yet. >> We've been waiting for a long time. And you know, the thing is, I don't want to digress. The states come
up with new revenue how many different ways in the last 10 years, and how much of that is rolled to education, >> right? Certainly. I mean, upper education has benefited, but that's been it. >> Well, I talked with um Aaron whenever. I can't remember what month it must have
been May. And there used to be a thing called joint funding something. And so, they didn't do it in little pieces that floated in in at the end of the fiscal year. um and there's some issue there's some awareness that that you know these
late supplemental bills are not helpful in terms of planning. So he said yeah they they know about that and they have been talking about having a model for funding that's more holistic
in terms of pieces. So that'd be nice. >> All right. Um, George, can we shift gears and talk about the long range forecasting tool? >> Sure. Sure. Love to show it to everybody. >> Yeah. Do you um do you want me to >> I can share the screen. >> Share it. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I'll drive it if you don't
mind. >> Great. >> All right. Uh, let's see. >> Actually, I wonder if there's anything in what we're doing that could be applicable to this the the school. >> I'm sorry, what was last part? No, I was
just wondering if there was something about what we're proposing to do that could be, you know, folded into what the schools are trying to do together, you know, really looking ahead as well. >> Yeah, I think um well, kind of somewhat
related. Um, I I had a conversation with Steve where I explained what Sure. I didn't show, you know, wasn't ready to show anybody, but like I explained what we were working on and Steve was really
interested in it. So I think this like this the approach that we're taking with this tool is something um George you know you you I know you have a relation you know you have a friendship with Steve you might want to reach out to him but like I think this
is the kind of thing that you might be worth sharing with our colleagues. I think I think once we >> are comfortable with what we have and we learn how it can benefit us and how we can use it. >> Yeah, >> I'm happy to share with others. You know, the state does have if you go to
the DLS website, they have a whole lot of information in their templates and their way of doing long range planning. What I'm doing was basically taking our budget and morphing it into something that I think would be useful to us. And I think it's pretty good. If if you all agree then sure we'll keep continue to
use this but other towns could use that resource to go and try and learn all that is going to be timeconuming as opposed to you know I'm just letting you know there are resources out there to help towns do long-range planning that said I'd be happy if this turns out to
be a really good model I'd be happy to share it with Lever if there if Steve's interested sure I'd sit down and walk >> and maybe other towns have something they're doing sim in a similar are trying to move in this direction. We don't know. >> I'm sure there are some I I would bet that the long range planning is mostly
happening with the larger towns that have finance departments. >> I bet. Yeah. I mean, you know, >> I think you're right. >> That's typically what we see with this >> has Sean Nano like no no other town has got like a full-time um you know finance
director that can Yeah, I think >> it's the bigger ones for sure. You know, 60,000 residents and above then now you start having >> Yeah. more robust finance departments. >> So, we could have a finance department that also is working on um
my brain just farted. >> Where were we? Anyway, >> okay. >> Everybody sees this, right? >> Yep. >> So, the first thing I'm going to say is I basically took our operating budget and our revenue schedule and I flipped
them upside down. I built I we've got the expenses in here. >> We can then you can see I've got the different years. So this is the actual budget.
>> So you populated all of this FY27 column with our actual final budget that >> Yep. This is what was approved in May. >> That number right there. And then what I have is subsequent years, five years, and they
increase based on so here's the first thing I'll show you. I've created these categories and I have these percentages. I just threw these numbers in here. They're not real. They don't mean anything. This is where we're going to spend a lot of our time, I believe,
on different analysis. this. All the salary lines that receive a cola change based on the percentage we put in here. >> The school I'm sorry, all the contracted ones will change based on this percentage. And right now, I kept them the same. And these are just wags. Wild
guesses. I'm just throwing these numbers in. I got the education line. We can play with that each year. We can increase it at whatever rate we want. Same thing with the regional school. The health insurance is a big one. Energy is a big one. and then all others and I use
a real small percentage because a lot of our departments right a lot of our small departments give us level budgets or small increases in the non-s salary lines >> so and and again these aren't real this is just I'm trying to mimic kind of what we've been seeing
>> so my question to you is and then this is the result of the budget increase this number here number line 15 comes from the result of all these percentages from line right here. >> So, it's just so that as we change these, we can see what it's doing to the
bottom line without actually having to scroll down to the bottom line. >> George, >> George, what would the uh the all others category? What roughly what what do you what does that add up to? You think percentage- wise of the overall >> I don't know, but I could look that up, Jim. I I that's a good question. I don't
know. Um, but you can imagine that, you know, all the employ all the salaried employees, the education, the health insurance, and even the energy, those add up to a pretty big percentage. So, I could I could probably find out for you what those are as a percentage.
>> I'd have to do some it probably is it probably is pretty small. >> I think I think the question the first question I would have for all of you is obviously one of the things we're gonna have to talk about as a group is what percentages use in what years? And I think ultimately with this pro project, what we're going to be doing is various
scenarios. What if, what if, what if, and then we're going to look at the results. >> Once we decide what the results are that we really want to report on, which I think in many people's minds is what does it do to excess living capacity. >> It also seems important to dovetail this with the capital planning work because
that that's a lot of our our big debt service. >> That's right. The debt service part is a big part and in fact, that's the part that's going to need work. Yeah, >> I set up the template, but there's questions that have to be answered. And back to my um previous comment about um getting information from Ryan about our
debt service. That's what we need for the current debt to put in here to see what we're paying for the next five years for the things that we have. Um so yes, that is so my first, you know, my one of my questions is obviously we're going to have to think about what percentages to use and are there any
categories that we can add to this things that would change different than the all others? And I think we can answer that as we walk through this. >> So here's the way we're going to control the percentages. I'm going to close that. And then what I'm going to I'm going to open up. So there's the percentages. And then
down here is the budget as we know it. Wait, I want to close this one now. And so and so those percentages we saw, they affect this line. The salaried ones that's affecting this line. So that's why that's going up. Mhm. >> And that's how this basically works.
>> So, George, for every line in the budget, there's a there's a um a a cost increase factor that is tied to the top of the table there. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Got it. Are there any lines where
we essentially >> that I've hardcoded? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Um I think that service will be that. >> Yep. Great. And I'm not sure, but we might have to do it with things like the trash contract, >> right?
>> Ambulance contracts. But right now, the trash contracts in it last year, so it's an unknown. So, right now, it's growing at the all other rate. >> Yeah. >> And debt service I left. Um, again, debt service, we're just going to have to get the numbers and just drop those in. And as as April pointed out, we need a
capital plan to see what other loans we might have to take in the course of the next five years. >> Yeah. >> Well, I'm also wondering, would it make sense to, you know, look back a few years, you know, and see what those hard numbers were and help us project ahead,
you know, if we >> if there's a line that we need to do that, they're here. So, >> oh, there they are. >> So, there's the actuals right there. So we can we can look and get trends if we want to. I I've hidden them
>> by just see C and K, but I can expand those. So as we go, April, we have at less, not necessarily what really happened underneath, but we can certainly see trends. >> Yep. Oh, that's really helpful. >> Good question.
>> We're on to something. So, so basically the whole budget section, that's what's going on here. That's what I'm doing. Um, let me just go down and just show you the debt service. Let me So, you can you recognize all these lines. I mean, you recognize this is what it is.
>> There are there are friends. >> Yeah, there are friends. And you can see we have categories here. So if we wanted to look at if we wanted to look at the cola and wanted to see which lines did that affect and what do they look like, we could just look at the cola lines and
see what they are. So that's what this category is here. >> Okay, >> that's helpful. >> And as you're playing with it, you know, as you folks get your hand on this, if you want to mess around with on your own, just be aware of these things. Um, let me All right, let me So, I'm gonna move right down to the bottom of this
because I think you all understand the concept and that's really what I think today's goal is. It's just to understand this, everybody to be able to see what we're doing and then you can chew on it, get some ideas, and hopefully we can sub subsequently have meetings to improve
it, to revise it, to ask important questions. So, there's the debt service section. >> You know, that's this needs to be refined. I think the I think this goes two more years but I don't know so I just put in two more years and that's what Ryan can help us with.
>> Okay. So every time a as you know thinking about how this tool is going to be kind of a living document anytime at the end of every year when we have new capital projects that get approved at
town meeting or a special town meeting that um that require some amount of borrowing. We're gonna essentially add that project to this list and put in the
um the proposed uh debt uh principal payments and interest payments for that project. >> Yeah. Which is I you know I thought about that too and you can see I've already started that. >> Yeah. >> I think these are the two likely ones and we know the the firetruck for sure
and then this the grater would probably be the next likely one. >> Yeah. So yes, we can add things as we need them for sure. >> Okay, great. >> Um, so you know, and then the OPED trust
is one that's hardcoded because that's never changes. >> Yeah, >> it has changed. Yes. But it typically has been 50. So we can talk about this and you know what would happen if we kept it at zero. That's a part of the OPED conversation as well as this conversation.
>> Yep. And then, you know, one of the things I'm noticing, Pier, right, is that we're not we're not uh we're not transferring funds to capital stabilization
>> um unless we unless we plan for that here, right? And so that that is something that I think we we've talked about this this year. >> We did. In fact, that's another thing that was missing on in the in last our last meeting conversation about projects. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I guess maybe it's not a summer
project, but that was a project we were going to talk about because the capacity doesn't exist anymore the way it did in this operating budget. >> Yes. >> And there are options, you know, and that it should be talked about. I think AJ, it's that's something we need to pursue. >> What's happening to us? Uh I'm on my
soap box. It's the same thing has happened to all the other towns. They are losing their cash reserves. >> Yeah, >> we had that luxury for so long. So here's the operating budget and these numbers will change as we change our percentages above as we change the debt service and anything else we think of
that needs to be handled differently. >> I'm I'm just wondering would it also help to to track how much free cash comes back every year because that that's somewhat a reflection of you know money.
It's weird because we appropriate it um but then it comes back to us. It's sort of like um >> I think that's a different >> I think that's a different analysis. I think it can dovetail with this. >> Yeah. >> But I think you know um how we're using
our cash reserves, what impacts our cash reserves and how can we model those. I think it's its own thing. >> Yeah. >> But I think I Yes, they are definitely linked together >> and that Yeah. Go ahead. So, so you can see I've got the
operating budgets from prior years, actual spend, we got FY budget, 27 actual budget, and then we can project the future based on what we think will happen for various lines. >> Wow. >> And so you can think about are we
missing any lines that might be important or um we need to have more control over. Then what I do is I have our sources of aid. I'm going to shrink this again just so we can see it all. Um, oh, I want one. Sorry about that. Okay.
Um, so here was our just to orient you. Here we are at the total operating budget. The next section is our income. So we have state income, we have local, and then we have the W the WPAT loan. >> And then in FY27, we're using $28,000 to
fund the budget. And so those things combined, the non- tax levy revenue combined is 1.8 8 million that gets subtracted from the total operating budget number to come up with the amount that we need from the tax levy
and that's this number. So one of the things we'll have to do is ask ourselves how are all these aid numbers going to change over time? And I think AJ, when we met, we made a decision um just to
throw in here some percentages for chapter 70 and the UGG money. >> Yeah. >> But this model allows us to mess around with the state income. Like we might want to add a line or we might want to increase the um
amount of money we're going to get for the quabin. That may be a new revenue source that we have to consider. >> Right. So, so the same thing is true for the local. Let me go back here. Same thing is true for I'm sorry, I'm
jumping around. The local estimates, I've got all of them listed under there. I won't show them to you, but you all know them. We can look at those and how we how those um might grow and that will affect this number. And then again, we might even want to for cash, you know,
we have the health insurance, we have SPED, we've got the veterans benefits. Is there an amount of cash that we would put to the budget in future years? Like veterans benefit. Do we do 75% every year funded with cash? And so we can
also add cash lines. And again, they're all here. We we can use the ones we've been using or we can add new ones. Mhm. >> And into these different years to get an amount here to lower the amount needed
to be raised from the tax levy. >> So basically we got the operating budget. We can make estimates of how it'll increase where it'll increase at the detail level and what the total increase will be at that the total
level. And then we can look at our revenues. And once we make estimates on revenues, then we can see what we need to raise from the tax levy. Which brings us to the next section. >> And you'll all recognize this. This is this is the section where we calculate the levy limit each year.
>> And we will have to make decisions about what we think new growth is. >> The two and a half is an easy one. We won't have to do anything with that. That's just a formula. >> Um and yeah, well, we need an override. We could actually put that in there if we needed it, but you know, let's not.
Um, and then of course we know what the library debt is going to be. I think we do. We'll get better numbers on that once they complete the whole project. And then um this right here, right, the um sorry about raising my voice. The uh debt exclusion that we get from the debt service schedule that's included in the
uh regional uh school budget. >> And that gives us the total allowable limit. And so this excess levy capacity line 407 I'm going to bring you back to line uh this line right here. The amount
needed from the budget subtracted from I'm actually going to subtracted from the maximum allowed levy is our levy capacity. So once the budget is estimated, once these revenue items from the state and local are estimated,
then we'll see what the impact is on excess living capacity. >> And and when this goes to zero, that's when we're in override terms. >> Yeah. And I actually made a note about that right here, AJ. Yeah. Positive values are um amount of the 2.5 override
needed. >> Got it. >> If we were going to fund the expenses that we have at the top. >> Yeah. So, and and right now, don't put any credence on any of these. These don't mean anything because we have some decisions to make. >> Yeah. >> But this is how it works. And then
lastly, >> this is just from the old thing, just the new revenue. Lastly, uh well, not lastly, there's two things left. First, there's the average single family impact. And we'll have to talk about how much do we think assessed values are going to
grow and how much do we think the average single family is going to grow. The tax rate calculation is the usual calculation. It's the tax levy divided into this value. And so that you know more decisions that we'll have to make >> but you're all familiar with this.
>> Yeah. Um, and then the bottom line, this is this is where these are all formulas driven by the data above. And we can see what's important. We can see how much the budget increases year-to-year. What that percentage is we can see the
increase in the tax levy. This is coming from that tax levy line. We can see whether we generated or actually used, right? or in these cases generated excess levy capacity because the excess levity levy capacity started growing here obviously not real but what's up
the with the numbers up there now the changes in the debt exclusion obviously in FY27 it's a big increase because now we're doing the library and the regional one doubled but based on what we have in there now it kind of
moderates if you will >> and Then cash reserves use of the budget because that's really kind of important. And then our average single family tax bill change. It's just taking these changes from year to year. >> And if there's any other key metrics
that we want to get out of this, I can add them if they're, you know, accessible up above. So that's essentially what this does. We take the operating budget. We make some decisions about where it's going to grow, at what rates it's going to grow, refine things
like new contracts, new debt service as the years go along, and then predict, try to predict what the revenue situation will be from the state and local. And then the rest of it just falls into place.
>> You mentioned metrics. Uh George, would there be one here for reserves, zero toyear reserves? What our current reserve situation is? Whether it be free cash, >> cash reserves. >> Well, free cash and stabilization uh capital >> stabiliz,
you know, April. >> Well, yeah. Well, it gives us something to um what our cushion is uh to use to use cash reserves. Like we'll be we'll be making decisions on plugging in cash reserves into that one line there. >> But part of that will be based on what
are we starting with for cash reserves >> or stabiliz or stabilization or capital stabilization. you know, if we're looking at or we'll be plugging in capital projects in here and how those projects are going to be um funded, you
know, whether it's borrowing or whether it's using stabilization. >> So, here's how I I think I would approach that. And I'm sorry, I see your hand up, Susie, too, but just to respond to Jim. I think I think what when we
have this capital this long range capital plan document um I think that's probably a place where we want to make some some very preliminary assumptions >> about how each of those projects gets
funded >> in that document >> and then for those projects that um and I think as integrated in that document can be a running ledger of our cash reserves accounts and we can see you
know >> it's taken away and >> to the extent that we actually add >> you know that we fund capital stabilization is through the operating budget here in this document we can
include those amounts in but I think I think that probably belongs as part of the capital plan document. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I could show in there >> to each other. You're right. Yeah. >> But yes, we have that template. We've got it. We do it annually and we could
do the same thing we do here, right? We have it for this year. We could extrapolate out into the future and we could run up and you know starting balance of all the stable reserves by each one ending starting next year
ending next year starting the subsequent year ending and just roll that into the future. I think that is that's the other project we should be doing. >> Yeah. Because piece part of this long range plan is okay how does uh how do our reserves look like look five years from now using these different scenarios. Yeah.
>> You know we got scenario A B C and D and one of the things we're going to want to look at is how do our reserves look like five years from now. I think the two places where the two interact is how much cash reserves would we use to fund these budgets in the future and
certainly knowing if there's a lot of reserves gives us confidence that maybe we can use some and then the other thing is how do we fund the stabilization accounts >> because that historically what the two are connected >> and I think the other way in which these
these documents need to talk to each other is that we need to know what our debt service expenses are in each of these years. And we we're not going to know that unless we we have we get it from the capital plan. >> Capital plan. Yeah.
>> And you know um uh and yeah, how much uh how much are we adding to those you know those reserves through the operating budget. So I think I think those are the the ways in which
these things need to communicate. >> So George I think um first of all it's like well let me go to S. >> Yeah I wanted to um I think this helps structure our perspectives >> um
and I want to acknowledge that we are volunteers and do not have a crystal ball. So part of the way we get free cash is because we projected some expenses. Um we've actually been through
um some phases maybe is the right word. Uh so we we earmarked money um placeholders for the police chief and other things. Um and that ended up generating some cash reserves and helped
us make line-to-line transfers. Um, but there's a few areas that we um in the look, like when April suggested looking back, we can probably see some of the areas we were not um
um projecting. So, um the position adjustment um we went through a a change of of um um personnel and um in the end if we look back we'll probably see that there were quite a lot of um increased
expenses for personnel that were adjusting to the market and we still have some pending to adjust to the market. Um, we also had um the trash contract is going to be a
pretty big adjustment and that comes every 5, seven years, whatever it is. Um, the buildings aren't weren't in the capital plan. Um, and yet the buildings as they age along with the rest of us need to h need to be seen as a um a
potential expense that we don't know how we're going to um um figure that percentage out, but it's clearly a part of what's going on. Um and um things like suggesting we have a
facilities manager is coming out of um as our town moves along. Um that's a position that wasn't thought of before. Um and um I think those were ones that
popped into my mind in terms of our best guesses um are that's the that's what we can do. We can make best guesses but um sometimes we don't see
some of those pieces coming. Um, when I look at the personnel, which I mean, labor is a big part of it. We like we bumped the highway up, but it wasn't just personnel. In fact, it probably wasn't personnel much at all. It was um
that some budgets were underfunded in the past. And so, we need to I I don't right off the top of my head see any one that was as big as the highway. I think we've I hope we've met most of the other ones. Maybe that's where you see like
the trash contract that's coming. Um and and that's was it wasn't underfunded, but like the contract before the business went out um because it it was more expensive than they put their bid in for. So there are um
I don't know if there's any other areas that we haven't really seen coming in the personnel. We have a tax collector and an accountant. >> And I guess those are the two main ones. And I'm going to guess those are going
to be adjusted um when we get to putting their replacement people in. >> And then we could maybe personnel will come up with some of the other areas that we haven't thought of before. Um, so
those are all um I I I think those are all good faith efforts we've made, but we didn't have the experience or and by looking back, we might see if there's anything else that was not seen coming and um and
therefore would be put into our picture a little bit more clearly. But I would say that um general government may have some thesis we're not aware of yet. Um >> that's always going to be the case. These long range analysis, you cannot predict everything.
>> Oh, I understand that. I'm not saying that. But I feel like how do you how do you get closer? One of the ways is by looking back and by um sort of thinking ahead those two things. >> So I think another way to I guess another way to address that Susie would
be to build in like a >> contingency >> like a contingency factor in here which is >> like un like we know that there's going to be some level of unanticipated and it's it's never going to be
unanticipated decrease or it rarely is right it's on net it's always an unanticipated increase and we we can always I think build in a line um >> if we think it's appropriate which is to say let's just add, you know, a percent
or whatever the I don't know what the correct amount is, but that gives us a little bit of that safety buffer for for those things that are just going to be unknown. >> I would have said we have to have an inflation factor.
>> Well, and that's, you know, that's what that's what this is, >> you know, the all other, >> right? >> And the other thing I'll tell you is whatever we do here, I can make a copy of this. Mhm. >> And we can play with that and we can end
up with multiple copies of this with different things going on with the contingency, without the contingency, inflation 2%, 3%. And so, and then we can have a summary document. Here's what happens when, here's what happens when. I I'm I'm just throwing that out. We don't have to do that, but I'm telling
you that we can do we can be flexible here. We can try different things without worrying about losing the last thing we did because I can keep a record of each one. >> Right. I don't want I don't want to sound like I was criticizing. What I'm trying to do is think about this journey
that we're on and how I mean I feel like we've done a lot better at anticipating some things but um how to learn to anticipate um seems to me about if you look back you get some ver version and
then like a contingency because looking forward has been I mean did we anticipate the kind of inflation we just went through? It's shocking to me the wages inflated. Um, and you know, some some leaders say they don't care about
inflation. They love it, but >> but that's but we're also, you know, have we've talked about are there other ways for the town to generate money other than property taxes. >> Yeah. >> You know, that >> that was the other project,
>> right? And I, you know, often there's there are things I'm sure that we can access that I have no idea what they are. >> And that's that's the bottom line is we couldn't have predicted PAS 10 years ago, five years ago, >> you know, you just you can't predict
everything. So at some point maybe building in the contingency is the right answer. >> Um George, can we go to that that list of next steps? I think that that would be helpful to sort of >> yeah I just this is me throwing my thoughts on paper so >> yeah this is good
>> that's helpful >> um the first two so I guess I guess broadly even even so there are lots of specific things here but I think broadly the process here is like what are some
um we've got a very good structure here right now what are some of the assumptions that we think ought to be built into this thing about all of those in inflation factors for the separate all the different categories. We're going to
need to make like uh you know at least at least preliminary we can build different models to look compare things but we should probably have like a baseline set of assumptions that we all feel comfortable with. >> I assume the first two items on here
have to do with that. What's a what's a what's a an appropriate assumption about how much the ARPs assessment is going to increase in each year, right? What's an appropriate assumption about how much the elementary school budget is
appropriation is going to increase each year. So, I think there there's that. Then I think there's like a bunch of things that need to actually be hardcoded into this where because because because we actually don't have to do the guessing of what is the right
inflation factor. We actually know. So I think you already mentioned that all the debt service um expenses like we we know what those are or we can get those from Ryan for ex for current projects and then every time
we have a new one we can we can add that to it. Um, I can tell you right now I did a little calculating and the ARPS assessment over the last three years which I think it's like yes
we can look at an average over a longer period of time but like things have escalated so much in the last three years it feels like >> it feels like not appropriate to average the last 10 years. So, I took three-year average the last three years and for for
the regional assessment that's 2 and a.5% actually uh funny enough. Uh and for the it's 2.54% for for the last three years. Um
>> that's that's regional school still. >> Yep. >> For the elementary school, if we take the last three years, it's 5.5%. which feels like a safer assumption to build into this than 3.
>> I'm sorry, what was that number? >> That was 5.5, which is a big increase. But like it doesn't do us any good to just put in a lower number that you know that we don't we have a low degree of confidence is
actually going to be where we end up, right? And so it just it's hard to imagine after you know three years of of 3.7% increase 6.4% 4% 6.3% that all of a sudden this is going to come down to
like you know annual increases of two two and a that doesn't seem likely >> and in that school number really you know we have to make assumptions about out of placement out of district placements >> right yeah so for that reason I don't
think 5.5 is is um >> we might want to break >> that would say that assumption would say that we will continue to have new out of district people in a small school population. I don't think that's probably >> well and it also doesn't take into
account the fact we might have a stabilization fund to smooth that out >> and and it doesn't take into account that we we apply cash reserves >> yes to that >> but that we can account for in the revenue piece
>> right but this 5.5% calculation here is just the average of the elementary school appropriation that line in the last three years. So >> except for we had a number from the
school committee that without the um out of district there was some smaller number and and so uh we can we can say that this happened but we can't particularly say it's going to continue at that rate. >> Right. Gotcha. So this is exactly but I
think this is exactly the thing right we as a group we need to like say okay here's an argument for >> for this cost factor here's an argument for this car can we get some consensus about what we feel >> we're comfortable with as a baseline
assumption >> right >> I will say one thing about what I've built here is because I started from the budget I've made something that's very granular >> and that can be helpful or that can be a quagmire. So, we do kind of need to be
careful about how deeply we really dive into this thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like this next item on here, like do we want to actually That's a good question. like is it worth it to do the work of hard coding every existing
contract right now for you know it's not a lot of employees but it's it's >> well one thing one thing that we've been moving towards is making all the contracts um increases for the managers based on the cola increase for everybody else.
So, we could make an assumption that that's it. And then when that really falls out of um a structure, if you will, a trend is when somebody gets hired or when a new contract is signed and somebody negotiates something higher
in year one and then the B the following years, it's usually just the cola rate. >> Yeah. >> So, to some extent, we could just use the cola number. >> Yeah, it might. Yeah. And some >> I'd be okay with that. And in fact, AJ, ju just finish my thought. I that's what
I did to start is I kept them both the same. >> Yeah, I think I've come full circle on this. At one point I thought, well, why not just like actually hardcode actual numbers where they're known? Like why why make a a guess if we know the actual
number? But for precisely the reason you just said, it's like we could hardcode all those numbers. First of all, that's work. But it also doesn't take into the account that people are not going to fulfill their contracts, right? Like some people are going to leave and we're
going to hire them with people who either cost more or cost less. And it's like all this stuff probably washes out in the end if you do something like just apply the same cola factor to >> those positions. >> Yes.
>> Yep. Yep. Keep it simple. >> Yeah. I think I think Yeah, I think I've come full circle on that. Uh, right. So, oops. I don't know what I just did there. Yeah, it's, you know, assumptions about
school. Do we really want to spend a lot of time in school transportation or you want to just do the calculation like we did with the other ones using the information we the numbers we know? >> Yeah. Well, I won't do it now, but >> Right. Right. But that's a question, right? Yeah. So, um, and obviously like
we're not one assumption that's built into this is at least for these five years, we're not actually using any >> OPED >> uh revenue, right? Um, which I think is the right Yeah. I don't think we Yes. >> at any point talked about that, but
>> once we do our OPED analysis, if we decide we want to, we can build that in. >> Yeah. >> Easily enough. just add a revenue line for that. Yeah. >> Yes. >> And it'll be really nice to have this looped into the select board. >> Yeah.
>> You know, because I I think it's a really important tool that we're on to here. >> Yeah. Here's what I'm thinking, George, in terms of next steps. So I think if I think if folks are comfortable are folks comfortable with these because they're
they have a big impact obviously these two assumptions about education costs do those feel like the right um >> the only thing I would say are you talking first two lines here >> yeah the first two lines that we're seeing on
>> I think it's important to uh I think history recent history is important it's it's which is what you really have here. >> This is a threeyear history. >> Yeah. >> Um I mean I think it's a starting point.
>> The only what I would say is if we're going to use the 5.5 for the SCES then we know that some of that is for out of placement >> and we have to decide how we're going to fund a portion of that out of placement. >> Yeah. I guess I I wonder if um
>> there's two things here. One is it's it's good to have this this three-year average. Maybe that's not what you plug in for these various assumptions, but you use that to help drive >> uh your assumptions. >> I'm just going I mean, Oops. I don't
know what's going on here. So, we say 5.5. >> I don't think that >> Yeah, I guess again, my point was more that's the history. um we might not necessarily need a plug-in history here, but but that that history information is important to have
to help drive whatever we put in here, >> right? But we're, you know, in terms of baseline, what are we going to use? Maybe today we don't decide, but >> yeah, >> is the three-year history good? But back to just answering AJ's question, I do think if we're going to keep the out of placement district portion of the
increases here, then we have to ask ourselves historically we've been funding some of that with cash and there is a way to do that in this model. So we need to talk about that as well, AJ is what my point was. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um
Okay. So we've got to Yeah. So, so I think that I think the key things to do right right now are to get um are are to to come to some consensus about these first two numbers. Um we we've I think appropriately opted
for the simpler approach in terms of contracted costs for managers where you'll just use the cola the same cola assumptions. Mhm. >> Um I think probably the most important thing we need is the debt service
schedule from Ryan, right? So that you can actually build actually, you know, uh code those in. >> Yes, I think I agree. I that's something that is completely off right now. >> Yeah. Right. Um, and then I think
do we want to make an assumption about the trash hauling contract like as a percentage? I I wouldn't even know. >> Well, I according to Merrill, it's like it's going to be less, but I I you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't plan on that. >> Well, we could use the inflation FL
factor on. Yeah. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I did I make that separate? I don't think I did. No, I didn't. when George though go back to where you just were. Uh isn't inflation part of these what what you have in these
>> Yeah, it is. It is. It's not the all other um >> not in all other but the other >> how do we want to fit it in? I don't know. >> Yeah, >> I don't know how inflation is definitely directly affects the colas. We know that. Mhm.
>> And we certainly have heard from department heads that their costs are going up because of inflation. A lot of it is labor and to what extent are those non- labor accounts affected right now. The way the model works, it's they're right here. And so maybe this
number is too low. >> So maybe what I hear you saying what I hear you saying is maybe you've got inflation factored into a lot of these categories with with the exception of all others. >> Yes. The departments don't tell us their labor costs. We figure that out in other
ways. And what we did see is the highway costs that were non- labor were definitely inflating. Inflation was the cause. So when they contract out line striping, that went up. when they do um
maintenance on their machines that went up because those are services they have to pay in the marketplace and those were inflated but they didn't tell us because they don't we don't go through that process to ask them about their workers so that's covered in the cola um but the
um there was a there were expenses coming and um Haley put in a 2% increase for all other sorts of expenses in the general government. Um that's what she projected, you know. So that was paper,
postage, um machine maintenance. We've also had um some contracts with um Vadar that were initially a certain amount, but we expect those to be going up. All
of those contracts for the computer stuff. Um I actually assessor I think went up >> separately this time. Um >> I mean maybe this is what we should be doing is using a higher rate here. I you know I just threw that in because you know like I said earlier but I your
points are valid for sure. >> We have a cost increase line called inflation and we just put that in. Well, I mean that's essentially all Yeah, >> this is really Yeah, maybe use something
more like 3% for all others. Uh, >> and you know, yes, we're not >> we're not analyzing the bottom line yet, but you can see by changing that, you can see now we've got bigger increases on the bottom line. And we know that that bottom line is not complete because of debt service. Maybe one other one or
two other things, but that's the effect. Yeah. >> I mean things like I mean just using examples of like sand and salt. I mean we know with just the last year that how much that went up that would be in all others, right? >> That be part of all others. >> Oh yeah. Pretty much anything that's not
here. >> Yeah. So there's a lot of costs that are probably that all others is probably a lot of that is driven by inflation. you know, whatever factor we want to put in there. >> I think you I think you're right. I think >> I just did a little >> one was too low.
>> I just did a little Google search and it's kind of interesting about like what what what the recommendation recommended um you know uh uh inflation rate to
factor for municipal budgeting. Um, and it says for general operating expenses, and you know, I don't want to like who knows where this came from, but uh, general operating expenses 2 and a half to 3%. Salaries and wages 2 and a half to three and a half%. Health insurance 6
to 8%. Utilities 3 to 5%. School assessments 3 to 5%. Transportation 4 to 6%. Construction capital projects four to 5%. debt service actual debt schedules. Anyway, I don't know. It's kind of interesting to
just think, yeah, like what are some >> some benchmarks? I don't know if if some of those DLS planning tools that you were referring to. >> I Yeah, I haven't really looked too deeply at them, but that would be >> assumptions for these like different categories. Yeah.
>> Um that would be useful. But like yeah, like I saw your like I you know I think the health insurance assumptions that are I know I know you you just put in preliminary numbers for now but
>> those that felt good for FY28 but like >> you know I'm wondering if 5% in FY if I mean if that if if it's safe to assume um >> yeah I definitely scaled it down when I put it in. I was kind of thinking like that >> does feel a little too low. I don't know
like >> yeah these two low >> yeah something in the six to 8% maybe does feel like a little bit safer but I don't what others think. >> Yeah. >> How about like that? >> Yeah, something like that. >> And as we wrestle with it, so goes the
nation. And so there's other plans that are being kicked around about how to meet this. And we may end up benefiting from that or we may not. What happens if the singlepayer health bill passes in Massachusetts? >> Right.
>> Changes. >> It's a game changer. We can't predict that, >> right? >> But I think it would be good. >> Or things like OMIC went went the price went crashing down and so we might know that, you know, there'll be a new health
crisis. The first rounds of maybe five years are high and then it backs down again. >> Yeah. So AJ, yeah, no question. That's that's a really hard one to So AJ, that information you were just >> Yeah. >> Should we can you just share that with us? Maybe that's what those are the
assumptions I'll put in here and for our next analysis. >> Yeah, I I think what you have here, George, isn't too far away from what AJ >> No, just now if you if you if you put in the new numbers you have for education from your other piece there, you're you're five and a half and two and a
half. Um, >> yeah. I'm going to email these to you right now, George. Yeah. >> And I'd like to see the DL I'll look at the DLS site because I I wonder if they're in Massachusetts if those numbers are different than what came off the Google site.
>> Yeah. >> Certainly one thing we have working in our favor with the regional school is Amoris is never going to go more than three and a half%. >> So where how does that relate to us? the only the it depends on what our
population is going to do, I think. So, there you go. So, these are the numbers AJ had given us. 2.54 I put in 2.5 into the 5.5. So, we got those >> and and you bumped you bumped up all others to three. Um, >> this this isn't too far from where AJ
was. Yeah. >> The only thing >> to come to come back to is what do you think the merits are of this totally separate from this section up here? just adding a contingency factor
just off on the after after you do all of this, >> you know, very rational sort of um uh budgeting based on these different assumptions for these different categories. After we go through all of that, what about the concept of just
adding a certain contingency for just unknown expenses? I guess >> no relationship to prior year uh budgets. Is that is that a >> Sure. Absolutely. We Yeah. So I mean so
unknowns. All right. Contingency for unknown or for unexpected unanticipated. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was thinking about the damn. I mean >> there there are things that we will
never be able to anticipate, but we're a small town and we should have a contingency outlook, >> right? >> So 1% right that that that's $83,000. Does that feel like it's too too much or does that feel like the kind of thing
like is it fair to say that like every year we have some like unknown you know expense that has no no uh no historical precedent at all and it's in the sort of ballpark of around 80 to you know $90,000. I don't know is that
>> I think that's a good percentage 1%. >> 1% of the budget. >> Yeah. I'm going to say 1% of the previous year's budget. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah. >> I just need to format the numbers properly, which is a little tricky because Let me
open this up. Give me one second. I'll fix that. I just want to steal format. There we go. So, one point I got I'm missing a zero here. >> Okay. a little high. >> No, wait. I got I got a one in there that I don't want.
>> Extra. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There we go. >> And then let me just add it to this. >> Mhm. >> What's this? What's this plus one thing here? I don't need that. All right. >> I know this is a this is a a thinking
exercise, not a given exercise, but I would still argue that the SCES 5.5 is too high. It's it's not, you know, and then if we have the contingency, it would cover if another um sped kid comes in and has to have and you know, one of
the arguments about what's going on with charter is that we end up with more special needs kids in our general public. >> That's right. >> budget. I think >> we're not we're a small town. We're not likely to continue to have a kick like that we did this year.
Well, we know that that there is a child in our school, at least one, that's going to require this higher level of spending. >> You're right, though, because it's already in there. >> It's already in there, right? It's not >> Yeah, but I think HA's Ha's
>> partially his AJ's number from municipal budgeting. I thought he had 6% for schools, a 6% increase. Uh you mean >> you reference your reference to municipal forecasting >> that that was three to 5% for school
assessments. >> Okay. 3 to five >> four to 6% for transportation. >> Okay. >> So maybe I don't know. >> Let's go with three. >> Really? Okay. >> Three and a half.
>> Sold. I'm going with three because I have a spreadsheet. >> And also it would be interesting to look back, you know, how >> how how often because there have been >> some intense Well, >> yeah.
>> And and remember, we can make multiple versions of this. So, we can use different percentages and we can make lots of these. I'm calling it forecast one, which is really not a good description. I'll come up with a new one. Maybe I'm going to call this one baseline. And we can make you know
various versions of this but by copying the baseline into another template and then making the tweaks to make it something different. >> Yeah. >> And we can have >> the different assumptions we feel that we >> can differentiate the diff each analysis from.
>> Yeah. I I'm comfortable with that. I I do think that that that would be an important thing for us to forecast in the future. what what how does how does a um kind of a high impact year for the
school budget impact, you know, how does it affect our overall budget picture? Um and so like I'm I'm fine with the the baseline number being something either three or three and a half% but like we should at least you know like to the
extent that we want to be able to have ranges for these things, right? It's it's it's one of the reasons we would have a higher, you know, band on a range is because the school has a year like it has the last two years where, you know, it's more like
>> closer to 6%. So, yeah, I think that's that makes sense. >> I have a question. What was line 15? It just says budget increases. What is that? >> So, that's taking the um the total budget the total budget percentage increase from down at the very bottom. >> Oh, okay. And it's just so as we change
our percentages, it's this number right here. As we change our percentages, >> this number will change. So without having to keep jumping down here, we can see what it does. >> And >> yeah, that contingency just bumped it by a percent. >> Yes. >> Right.
>> Yeah. It pushed it up for sure. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And the only reason this this these numbers are lower is because I don't have debt service for everything >> in here. >> Otherwise, everything else is and you can see that when I come down here, by
the way, because because I've set this up to to roll up the expenses into the for each department, you can see the debt service number how it it goes down and that's not realistic. So that's why these numbers
here are realistic. >> And the other question I have is like philosophically or whatever when we look at the Google um um search and you look at DLS when you have a really small town
and a budget changes like in SCES because of a sped person. So do their percentages work the same for a really small town? I think our our town gets whacked by um some of the expenses that I know
Amoris absorbed a certain number of um sped um increases and we don't we don't just like absorb them. Um >> well it can go both ways though, right? I mean a sped person can go away too, right?
>> Yes. But I um but I so when Shannon was Shannon Bernacia was talking about it, she mentioned some of the kinds of um big um tuition and transportation ones came
in and it was fit into their budget. We don't we don't it it's So what my question is is when you have a really small town >> and you look at some of those projected in the Google search areas of change, >> right?
>> Is that the same for small towns or is those numbers for bigger towns? >> That would be something to Google. Well, I wonder if DLS would have like cuz that's one thing that always happens is um you know they give us they give us
information or say Molly Moss is going to take that class. Are they doing the the class for small towns or is it just big towns or do they have a way of understanding what the factor difference is? >> I mean I I have a friendly relationship
with Shannon. I I I I could I could get her feedback on it just like here's this project we're working on and >> um do you have uh Yeah. Do do you have have you been >> Maybe I'll go to the DLS people and talk
to them about this. >> Yeah. Um because I think it I think it it's really what um Joe Commer's fighting for is idea of rural equity because we're not the same and you need to understand when you make your aid
formulas and stuff like that. There's a differential that has to be accounted for and I don't know how it shows up. >> All right. Well, this is like an awesome. >> So, everybody thinks this model works, right? This model. >> Oh, yeah. >> Definitely.
>> Totally different. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> To actually take it from this step to it being a functioning usable document is we're very close. I think we just need to get some numbers from Ryan and then I
think we as a committee need to just nail down some of these like baseline assumptions and then I think I think it's ready to go. So I'm going to email Ryan tomorrow to uh ask him that and uh
>> and send him this. >> Yes, I will. >> Or I if I I don't know. What do you think, George? >> I don't think we should send it to him yet. I will explain the exercise though that we're we're going >> the the reason I would send it to Ryan and just say here's an exercise we're
working on is when I went looking for information about the different towns how they were meeting this particular year there was amazing differences in the way um towns write up their budget um proposals. >> Yes. >> And he is the treasurer for a bunch of
different places. So he may know um and sometimes the differential is because they are regional and not um just a solo um elementary school like we are. Um so so what I what I found interesting is is
the way people handled um their cash reserves, how they handled their stabilization funds and stuff like that. He may um be aware in a bigger picture than than some of us. >> Well, that's a separate conversation I think. Um,
I don't know. I I'm not comfortable passing your call, George. Like, I I can I can share it with him or I can just explain, you know, briefly summarize the exercise that we're going through and tell him. >> At this point, I think I would be comfortable with you breaking this out
and sending him this. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Right. the debt service and explaining him in concept what we're doing and see if he does have that experience or that exposure that Susie was referencing. >> Yeah. >> Because if he doesn't, he might just add noise. Nothing against
Ryan, >> right? I got you. >> But he might not be able to help us. >> And I want to ask him to do more. Well, I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I I mean, I'm comfortable with everybody else's comfortable. If everybody thinks Susie's right, I'm fine with it. I think at this point I think it's too soon to
start sending this out beyond our committee. >> I I think it's a good compromise sending him this section the loan. >> I agree. >> And say, you know, and and giving giving him the context of what what this exercise is and how we want to to to
make this ultimately a useful planning tool. we feel like we need to actually build in the debt schedule so that we're accounting for, you know, debt service payments that need to be made in each
each of these years. Um, but we need that information for them >> for two purposes. One, for long-range planning and two, for knowing that we have the firet truck and we're going to have to manage the fire truck. And then maybe in that state those statements you just said, "Oh, by the way, have you any experience with long range planning with
municipal governments?" >> Yep. Yep. >> Another set of eyes that we might consider at some phase is Becky. >> Um because Becky has used what what George developed over in Sunderland to help plan their budget.
>> She has she's doing long range planning. You know that? >> So no, I'm I think she might have a view of how that works. Um, so at some point she might be able to think about especially to see something we haven't seen, we haven't figured out yet.
>> I think Becky at the end of the day is going to be interested in this and how this can be used. >> She would and I think she could look at it and see stuff that we might not understand how these pieces work. >> Yeah. No, her perspective is she's got a lot of experience. >> Yep. Yeah,
>> you know, George, not not to like get too carried away, but like I I think this is like um you know, if you were ever interested like after using this for a while, I think there's like uh this is a tool that I think a lot of municipalities
would would benefit from and and you know, I could see I could see you you developing a version of this that you know, you're you could market >> I'm retired, >> right? No, but whether you think that or not, I think people I think I I I think
this would be quite useful for a lot of small business. >> I've heard that about the OPE schedule, too. >> I don't know. >> Do it for the town and we can charge for it. >> Yes. >> George, my commission is 20%. >> All right, that's fine.
>> Yeah. >> Well, I'm glad you like it. I'm I'm >> It's a lot of work, George, you put in here. It's a really good work. Really, really good stuff. >> Yeah. No, it's it I I'm glad you I'm glad you all think it's good. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Even like there's some usability things that like >> the way way we can collapse like budget lines into these broad categories, but then sometimes you want to see the lines, you know, like all those little decisions you made uh I thought were are
really were really thoughtful. So, >> y remember this is what I used to do for a living. So yeah, >> you're not that retired, huh? >> You know, it's the way I keep the brain turning. >> Otherwise, it might turn other ways. >> All right, it's We're about to hit nine o'clock, so we should
>> I know it's past my bedtime. >> Does anybody have anything urgent they need to share? Should we wrap up this meeting? >> Okay, what are we meeting next? We should figure that out, right? >> Yes, we should. >> With our new people. >> Yeah, I know. Yes.
>> So, AJ, have you heard any about that? >> So, I sent Netti an email this morning asking for an update. I haven't heard back yet. So, um I'll let you know when. But wait, does this mean this is our last meeting with April and Jim?
>> Well, Jim will be Jim will be in the the He's still there. >> Well, unless we meet in two weeks on the 30th. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The thing about when we meet is dovetailing with a select board. So >> I mean maybe on the 30th we'll know who
our new people are and the um old people get to skip that meeting. >> Um eventually we need to sign roles and >> this has been a fun I have to say this committee is just phenomenal. I I think
the it's it's like if we could package this we we could sell it perhaps. >> Yeah. I'd second that. >> Yeah. >> Our entire committee. That's a great >> what we did this year was amazing. The adding the the communications on a
regular basis >> and that annual report that we wrote >> and the writing style of the two new members >> and you know, Susie, the work you've put in. >> Oh god. And >> it's incredible. It's >> Yes. >> It I'm honored to be on this committee. I'm proud to say I'm on this committee.
I just wish times were easier. I mean, I don't even need easier. I just don't need the chaos that we're living in right now. >> But also, over the last few years, I have I really AJ, you could heard anything. >> You could heard snails. I mean, just
watching it's been and the Yeah, >> AJ, you definitely added some good innovations. You really did. Um, training the two new people the way you did got them up to speed much quicker. >> Well, we I mean, we did it as a committee. I I think I >> But the decision to do it, James. >> Yes.
>> I I think I think I think that's what I've been most impressed by the last year in particular is that this is not a group that's just satisfied with like just let's let's you know, we we you know, let's do things the same way we did last year. Like there's been a an
interest in like creating new helpful processes and and improving the way we do our work. And yeah, that's that's rewarding to be a part of that. Yeah. >> So, can we plan our meeting on for the 30th just to be in sync with the um
select board and we'd have enough pieces to move forward with our liaison and all that [ __ ] >> Okay, >> that sounds good. That sounds good. >> You should go. >> I should go. I should go to the meeting. >> June 30th. >> June 30th. Oh, absolutely.
>> You're welcome. It'll be your call. You come if you want. You're >> I would be I would be I I can be whatever I want. >> Yeah. >> Come with a clown hat. >> I I'm wearing one. >> Well, all right. See you guys on the
30th. >> 6:30 on the 30th. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I got to go to bed. >> Tired. Nap. >> I did not get >> third. >> Arnitis. >> Gashui. Mojerai
>> and Steini >> and Walt and I. >> All right. Good night everyone. Good night everybody. >> Bye >> bye.