Oh, shoot. >> All right. So, um, I have a little bit more of an open-ended agenda today. Um, but I see Haley. Here's Jim. >> I see Haley's on.
>> I'm here. >> Uh, hey Haley. I'm wondering if uh if you could just give us a quick Hi, Jim. Just got started. Um, hey, I was wondering >> if you could give us an update on
budget letters and forms going out. Has everybody been sent their their forms? >> Okay. >> Every everyone's been sent their forms. I've gotten them back from the mostly from the concom planning board and ZBA.
Um, I met with the COA today to go over their budget needs and then I sent some reminder emails to like board of health. >> Okay. >> Couple other committee. >> All right, great. Um, so Haley, I'm wondering if one one thing that maybe you could do which we started I think a
year or two, no, a couple years ago is I have a Google folder that um we use to store um budget uh sort of department budgets and and
other related documents. Um and I'm going to add you I think you probably have access but I'm going to resend it to you. Uh let's see. But, uh, if you could,
um, add copies of any any budgets you get, uh, into that folder, that would be great. All right. >> I'll upload them tomorrow because they're on my computer hard drive. >> Gotcha.
>> Okay. That'd be great. >> And could could you send us all a link to that folder? >> Yeah. >> And um, could you also upload the letter and the schedule to that folder? >> Yeah, that's a good idea. Uh, all right.
See? Okay. I think I'll just do this, make sure I do it correctly when we wrap up tonight. But I will send everybody um access to this Google folder. And what I'll do there is we'll we'll keep the department budgets there. The at
when we start to do depart um department head meetings, the expectation is that everybody will have spent a a little bit of time reviewing their budget proposals before we meet with them so that you can be prepared with any questions you have or
anything you need further explanation or clarification about. Um so that's that'll be that folder will be where you'll find them. Um, and I'll also keep the latest
budget meeting schedule in that folder as well. So, um, and I usually put the date of when they were last, um, revised, when that schedule was last revised. So, if you're ever losing track
or want to know who's coming up, um, you can you can find the schedule in that folder. Um, and I'll put I'll put the the the final letter and form uh I guess well I
guess the letter in that folder as well. Okay. Any Haley, any sort of feedback or any questions come up from anybody you've talked to that we need to be aware of? >> No, it was pretty straightforward. Um I
think the only increase in funding was to the zoning board of appeals because the the increased cost of newsletter newspaper advertising. >> Oh yeah. So okay that's that's a requirement right that they have to >> Yes.
>> posts. Um okay got it. Uh Molly I think I saw your hand up. Yeah. >> Yeah. So I've uh talked to Maryanne >> and she has and I know she's been talking to Haley too. So, she has a number of new >> um costs that are coming um to the
library that we're not quite sure where they're going to be budgeted. >> Um water testing I think we've already heard of, but there's like HVAC maintenance and um internet security, panic button, fire alarm monitoring, window washing, um bathroom supplies.
There's like a number of >> of things. Apparently, they used to go across the street and get toilet paper from town hall when they had a functioning bathroom. And I think it would be better if they actually had some in the building. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. All right. Um I know she has a
pretty detailed budget, but I I suspect there is >> she has a supplies line. >> Supplies line. Yeah. >> Um so like the panic button has been I think in the town budget. It's just uh because of like this new building and then Haley's familiarity with the budget
trying to make sure that we're accounting for these things. >> Yeah. the idea that if we put it um in the library's budget then it does increase their m like so their budget has to increase by two and a half% on average over three years to be
accredited by the state but also uh they have to spend a certain percentage of their municipal appropriation on materials. >> Yes, that's I remember I didn't realize there were two >> I I remember >> that's the M and the ME. >> Yeah. Okay. So, right. So, that that
actually was the explanation for why we didn't add a custodian line to the library budget and we increased the general town hall custodian line
>> $5,000 in anticipation of the new building, but which was obviously a separate line. So, I think what we're going to need to do when we meet with Maryanne is not only just learn about what the new expenses are related to the new building, but then make a decision about
where in the budget though each of those expenses is going to get >> Yeah. >> recorded and captured. >> Yeah. And she's like the building's going to be starting operating this year and she's already um figured out how to pay for things this year.
>> Okay, got it. So, she she did anticipate those costs or at least some of them, but has figured out ways to pay for them. >> Okay. Uh Susie, >> and I know that Molly was checking into and and Mary and some of the expenses
that are in the town budget like heat and um electricity. Um with this new building, some of those costs will be less. Um and so it's a good um process
to help identify what costs that are already in the town budget that will be lowered by having a new building. Um and that takes some digging, but it would be part of the effect of having a new
building. There's some positives, not only new expenses. And I'm also struck by the idea that the state's happy to help us build it. It was an extraordinary um grant, but it's like drive off a cliff. Now you have a new building with
all these expenses and there's no other funding stream for that. Um, so, um, thinking about how to look at that, it seems important to me because it's good to have a building, but we have to figure out what the actual costs
increases are and how to meet them. >> Yeah. I mean, this is um maybe an out of the box idea, but I wonder if there are
potential revenue opportunities with the new building that we, you know, might want to talk to her about. um thinking like sort of renting out the meeting room space or
something if people uh these are probably not like significant generators but maybe like some things that would be worth I mean there is they're going to be some impressive resources and I wonder and they're probably not going to be booked for
library activities you know >> 100% >> 100% of the time I wonder if there might be an opportunity. Anyway, some something to to talk about. Molly. >> Yeah. So, uh we at Forbes Library where I work, we have several meeting rooms.
>> And generally, like if you're a nonprofit or if you're doing something related to the library, you get to use the room for free. >> But if you're doing something for profit or if you're using it for a private event, >> Yeah. >> then we do charge. But it's nominal. >> Yeah. >> Like it's not going to be a huge revenue
stream. But I mean, >> but everything Yeah. But you know, >> every little bit helps. >> Every little bit helps. >> Yep. >> And like you know, this is I mean there um there's you know so many people work remotely these days but like do you know
so don't have access to like an office but like might you know need to meet with people occasionally and instead of meeting at share coffee might be up for renting a room at the library. Anyway, it's a it's a it's a thought. I think it's something worth worth um bringing
up with Maryanne. Okay. Uh but yeah, I think we will one of the decisions we'll have to make is where to kind of where to put each of these new expenses. And I'm actually curious. I think I think the town is going to want
some information about kind of what what are the costs of running this new building. And I think we're going to want to be able to respond to those kinds of questions. And it's going to be complicated, right? Because the there are going to be things that they're
going to be expenses that sort of fall on outside of the library budget, but are nevertheless related to the the building, and we want to have a good sense of that. Um Okay. Uh All right. Yeah, George. Um
before we leave the subject of um of the FY27 budget, so our next meeting is our first meeting with managers is December 2nd, which is our next meeting. I reached out to uh the highway chief. >> Um he hasn't gotten back to me, but I'll confirm that he can make that meeting.
Um he said he was going to look at the numbers and he was going to get back to me soon. So I'm expecting to hear from him in the next day or two and I'll follow up with him tomorrow anyways and confirm that he can be there. What time would you want him there? >> Okay. Um I think can somebody remind me
who is it? Jim, are you the the Lenny's liaison? Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, he's >> had a chance to touch base with him or >> No, I'm in the same category as George. Um >> Right. >> So yeah, maybe I have the same question then. What time we want to have Lenny Lenny there also?
>> I can't uh can we think of any reason why we'd want to do one of those before the other? I don't It's kind of arbitrary. Well, for what it's worth, I'm not going to be able to I'm not going to be at that meeting. I'm unfortunately traveling that day. So, >> I gota >> coming back from SF, so I'm not going to
be um able to attend the meeting. But, you know, Dave's David's done this before. I think he's going to have it together, and I'm certainly going to work with him if he has any questions or issues. >> Yeah. And you know, you can if there are any I I suspect there probably won't be, but if you have any sort of comments or
questions you want us to follow up with him on um maybe things that you guys talked about that he was going to he offered to follow up and >> I'll send you an email, AJ, about that. >> Send me an email then. >> Yeah, I'll do that. The other thing I wanted to mention was if the fire department is going to be there that
day, if I may, uh Jim, I'm on the capital planning committee and we're collecting information from all the different departments about their asset about their um capital items. And one of the items that Lenny had was the SCBAs, the uh breathing
apparatus. And I think that's in the budget >> and so I don't want to put in the capital plan if we're paying it for replacements each year. So I was hoping you folks could ask him that question during the meeting. I would have asked it if I was
>> SC that's the scuba the the air the air. >> Yeah. The what's SBC breathing apparatus. Um single. I don't know what the SC stands for. I used to. But anyways, he's got in the capital plan, but I do believe we're buying those in
the budget every year. So, I'm not sure it needs to be in the capital plan. So, if we could just get a clarification for him on that point, >> right? >> Thank you. Um, so let's do highway at 6:30
and fire at 7:30. >> Okay. Okay. >> Fire. Fire at 7:30. Yeah. Um, okay. And just for folks out, I think I think we used to do it like 6:45
and 7:45, but like we can always do the minutes after. Might as well meet with people at at the top of the meeting at 6:30. Uh, Cy, I did I did you have another follow? >> Um, just the thing about the um air tanks is I thought that got lumped all
together in equipment. Remember how we gave them a one category? But um that's what happens over time is information gets a little lost. So >> yeah, that's right. That's I agree and that's my recollection too, Susie. So we just need to confirm with him
>> or or maybe be a little more um we should check it and go back to our records and inform him that that's what's happen we've been doing, you know, instead of asking him. Not that I >> I'll check it out. Oh,
>> yeah. That was my recollection, too. I thought we're replacing not all of them at one time, but so many each year, wasn't that? >> And so, we just kept it rolling. So, there was no point to make it a capital purchase. We're just And the same thing with hoses, as a matter of fact. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Also an equipment. So, I guess we should just reiterate that with him. And we're not going to put it in the capital plan unless somebody gives me a reason to do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean a capital capital plan is really meant to be for one-time
expenses, right? Uh and so this I mean this is an ongoing recurring known expense that >> each and right if we if we bought every 10 years if we replaced all the apparatus every 10 years we'd call that
a capital item. But because they're small ticket items individually and we're rotating them >> Yeah. in doing replacements, it doesn't qualify as capital. >> But the exception to that that I remember a discussion around was the defibrillators. Um,
and I I'll go back and look in the minutes and see what happened because that wasn't in the original equipment ones. That was something that might be replaced one at a time. And I have no idea what they cost. Um, >> he didn't put in his capital plan. It's not here.
>> Yeah. So, I'll I'll I'll look back at that at that. Um, meaning when we switched it over to equipment and see what was listed. >> Okay. >> Is this like an AED? >> Yeah. >> Okay. The library just bought one and it was $2,400.
>> Uhhuh. >> And their understanding was that they would need new batteries for it every and they need to replace it about once every seven years. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. And there was there's some on the truck and there was some question about when they time out the the equipment
itself, not just the batteries. So, I'll I'll go back and find out what we know, but this will be part of Jim's conversation with Lenny. >> Okay, thank you. >> Um, okay, great. So,
uh, all right. So hopefully Dave and Lenny will be ready to go um on December 2nd. >> I'll let you know for sure. I'll confirm. >> Okay, great. Uh >> and like and likewise with Lenny. >> Okay, sounds good. Yeah, just maybe
shoot me an email if any reason either of them has a problem uh with this. >> Yeah. And if we do, then you'll have to find another place for that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay, sounds good. Um, all right.
See the next item. Uh, all right. Let's do some let's look at some minutes. Uh, so George sent two minutes. Great. Minutes from the four towns meeting. I don't remember us actually keeping minutes from the four towns meeting. So,
I think that it's going to be actually super helpful. >> Yeah. I did it last year actually. Um, you did? Okay. >> Yeah. because because we were all together and we kind of >> been told we got to do that and we you know had our heads handed to us the one
time we didn't. >> Right. Good to have. Okay. All right. So, let me first pull up the November 4th minutes and I looked at these and they look good to me. Uh >> I had one thing.
>> Okay, let's go Molly and then Susie. Um in VB um update of long range client has discussed discussed how it will prepare prepare us for >> Oh yeah >> Armageddon >> um yeah fill in the blank which I'm
sorry which one this is on November. Yeah this is November 4th. Yeah >> 5B page one. >> Oh um for um budget discussions. How's that sound? Yeah. Yeah.
Or maybe the fiscal summit also the >> uh Sure. Yeah. That's kind of what I was thinking when I said budget discussions, but >> Yeah. >> All right. Yeah. You want me to change that? >> Yeah. >> Prepare us for fiscal fiscal. >> What did you want me to say?
>> Summit. >> Oh, summit. That's the word. Okay. Yeah, I didn't touch that. Okay. Yep, you got it. Meaning we're going to do in January. >> It'll be February. >> Uh Cy, >> and then on 8 D, the um cost of that
dues for the Association of Town Finance Committees was 150. >> Okay. Now 450. >> Yeah. So we just saved $300. Thank you. >> That's awesome, Susie. Okay. Um, Haley, I think you sent me an email.
I Sorry, I didn't get to respond yet. That that transfer form is in the in the mailbox. Is that was it is that what you Okay. >> So, um, >> wait, but it does um what I also found out from Gail was that that had already
been paid. So, um, she I noticed on the ledger uh expense sheet $150 had been taken out and um that was in July. from from Fincom Reserve >> for the from the Fincom Reserve. Oh,
well, yeah. Yes. And so then I was wondering how did that happen? But anyways, um I had filled out all the paperwork and brought it in to talk to Gail because of that 150 deducted and uh she said, "Yeah, that had been paid." >> Okay.
>> In July. >> All right. Well, I assume she I assume we still need the paper like the oh >> a record that we did a transfer, right? In order for >> even if it's sort of retroactive. >> Yeah, for that one and for the
conference expenses. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh so was that what the 450 was? Was that a combination of the two or is that actually a typo? >> A typo. I wouldn't call it a typo. I'd
say the the writer didn't >> misunderstanding. >> Yes, I'll take that. >> All right. Uh, let's see. All right. Any other questions or corrections?
>> So, does that mean the transfer for Haley's expenses in the box, too? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Oh, we'll have to go up and sign. >> Yeah. So, we'll have to um all take a
trip over to town hall and in the fincom mailbox will be the forms. >> Um the transfer forms. >> Yeah, I would just make a request about this. This has been something we've done in the past. Um not something we haven't done in the past and I was wondering,
Haley, if you wouldn't mind when you put those in the box, if you could just shoot us all an email and say, "Hey, there's a transfer waiting to be signed for the blah blah blah." >> Yeah. Do you do you guys need to like physically sign it or I could try to set it up so that it's just like an e sign?
>> That would be great if that's an option. Can we >> Yeah, that's Yeah. Should we ask if we could um auto pen it or >> Yeah, I'll check in. She'll be in tomorrow. >> Okay, great. >> Yeah, that's a great idea.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I don't see why not. Right. Like a doy sign kind of thing. Uh, you'll get it signed faster. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um, okay. Great. Uh, all right. So, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes
from November 4th as amended. >> Second. >> Second. >> Oh, wait. I can't second it. Sorry. >> All right. Uh, George eye. Uh, >> is it me? Cashew. Moer. I moss eye.
abstain. >> Walton abstain. >> All right. Uh, okay. So, that's November 4th. It's approved. And then we have the four town meeting minutes. Uh, nice job, too, by the way. AJ.
>> Oh, sure. Yeah. >> At the town meeting, though. That was good. >> It was nice to be in a room where everybody was um you know, nobody was jockeying for position. >> Yeah. Yeah. I put I I put um uh an item
on the agenda to just debrief the meeting, but uh >> Oh, yeah. All right. I'm jumping. >> So, we can we we let we can let u we can talk about that after uh we approve these minutes. Uh, so yeah, these look great to me. I thought they were really comprehensive. Anybody have anything, Susie?
>> Yeah. On I'm a little mixed up with where things were talked about, but um there's two other parts um of the chapter of the chapter 70 that's being um discussed. one is the
local contribution >> um and the other one is the cap at 82 and a half%. And I don't remember if those came up in this particular meeting because the first um group the fiscal sustainability
covered a lot of topics. >> Those are pretty hot ones. >> I don't think they covered the 82%. I know we heard that in Greenfield. >> Yeah. I don't recall hearing it at this meeting and I would think that Lever wouldn't want to talk about it and
probably not Pelum because I think they're at the 82% and they would lose. >> Yeah, because No, Lever's at the 82%. They wouldn't get any aid if it wasn't for that. I'm pretty sure. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I couldn't remember where it came in. >> And what was the first one you said
about the conversation about the local >> the local the local contribution? They're they're saying things like, you know, the formula for the foundation is flawed and then the local contribution um has um when uh student opportunity
act came in caused the local contribution to get skewed also, but I don't I don't know where I I don't know. >> I think that was covered. I think that was actually the the fair share thing. They were mentioned. I don't have them in here. Thought maybe I did.
>> Yeah. >> On the other side. Yeah. >> I uh >> I >> number two. I >> Yeah. >> Fair share income tax revenue not distributed.
>> Right. Yeah. So I Yeah. Okay. I mean I didn't get into detail. I just wanted to you know know what was being discussed. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We'll just let it go because it probably comes up and again it'll come up again. >> Yes, >> it'll come up relentlessly.
>> Oh, yeah. I hope so. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions or comments on these minutes? >> Uh, okay. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from November 8th as written.
>> Second. Aron I cashew I >> Moer I >> Moss abstain I >> Walton abstain
>> okay great all right so we got minutes approved so I guess we could we can dive into just any any comments or any reflections um on the four towns meeting or any followups that folks
Haley, I want to check in on whether the select board had formally um I guess I guess it's two things. one sort of formally agreed to participate in this
collaborative uh study group and if so if they've like identified anybody who a specific person or people that would be involved. >> Not yet. Um but at the meeting on
Tuesday that's part of my TA date. >> Um so I heard from a couple people from the other towns. So there's I think there's there's um a couple of scenarios that I think are getting worked out. I think if I
understand it correctly, there's some folks in Ammerst who who want there to be sort of two reps for Ammerst on this group. Um I think partly because
they're a large obviously significantly larger town. Uh but I also think and I think some of this dynamic was kind of came up in that meeting which is that there are two town counselors who are
very interested but who have not been part of this informal four towns working group. And so I think there's a thought that they they're going to need to have at least one of those two counselors um
participate along with somebody who's been involved in um you know in in this working group. So I'm not sure if that's the case but I think that's definitely something that is needs to be worked out. And I think
the other small towns, Pelum and Leverett, they one proposal they had was that each of the small towns could identify a participant in the meeting and then sort of a backup person that
could be available I guess in the event that the primary person's not able to meet on any given meeting and also if for some reason it is decided decided that well all four towns ought to be equally represented on
this group. So I guess what I'm asking is if if when the select board takes this up if they could take >> two actions. One would be to formally um agree to participate in, you know, in
this group, the study group, and then if they could appoint um I guess or discuss two two people um that you know would would would be involved. Um, so in terms of who that
would be, I have no idea if there's somebody on the select board that's eager to to participate. Um, if you are Haley, if there are members of the fincom. Um, I would be interested in in
u in being involved, but I I want I also don't want to assume that, you know, that that that has to be. Um, so I'll just throw it out. Susie, >> I'm confused. Is that the outside number? So if it's two from Ammeris, one
from Pelum, Lever, and Shootsberry, that's a five member board. Is that what you're talking about? >> Yeah, I guess. So, so yeah, it would be it would be five plus the um somebody from the region schools
committee. Yeah. and the either the superintendent or um the finance director and I think potentially Sean Mangano also. So I think the the the point was that that
that I don't think this is it's it it totally worked out how many people are going to sit and participate in this group. I think there is some thought that it's like it's got to be kept to a manageable number and not not become too
enormous. Um the way I think the these the four towns group had talked about it was that initially was that each town would be represented by one member of its you know select board or finance
committee plus key resources including the superintendent or the superintendent's um designate and someone from the regional school school committee. So, I think that was initially thought to be around seven or
eight people, but I don't I I think these details need to be worked out. But in terms of what I think Shootsberry has to do is right now, I think to be safe, identify two people that that would be willing to, you know,
participate and and be available for this. >> I would support it being you, AJ, because covering the ground all over again for new people is not useful. And we I think you have established your point of view enough for people to know
you and trust you and to start in with somebody else. I it I hope nobody starts with somebody who hasn't been Sounds like one more Ammeris person might be not that with enough background but it shouldn't slow the process down at all. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I agree. I hope that I hope that's what happens. Can I ask you um a backup representative for Lever and Pelong and possibly Shootsbury, would they actually attend meetings so that they'd always be >> I I I think it has to be worked out and I think I think the thinking was that
that person could either play a backup role or if it turns out that we're going to have that that the the small smaller communities are going to insist on having sort of equal representation on
this group that that that that we would then have two people from because I think it's a I think it's a foregone conclusion that Ammerst is going to send two people in this group. I just >> I think it was Mary Joe uh Joe I forget >> Randy Joe. >> Yeah, she was the one who I remember her
talking about this. I was going to say if you're a backup person and you're not going to meetings, you know, you're going to get everything secondhand. But having a backup person come and having two reps at the meetings, but only one person is the formal rep who can speak
and the other person's just, you know, they can speak if that person doesn't show to the next meeting, >> right? Yeah. >> So I just >> Yeah. No, that that that makes sense. And I think I think the details have to be sort of hammered out, but >> yeah.
>> Um, is there anybody else from this group that wants to at least ex put their name out there for for the select board to be aware of? And and I mean it's ultimately their decision, but um I don't know. I >> And what is their time frame? They
usually meet when of nights. >> It's usually during the day. Um, and it's it's by Zoom. Um, and I I I think this is pro, if I had to guess, I think this is probably going to
be like an every other week kind of thing. So, I think maybe twice a month is probably a pretty safe bet. >> I would do it as part of my connection to the uh local school. Mhm. >> Um but I can't do Wednesdays. That's
period. >> Okay. Okay. Um All right, Haley, if you could if you could make sure then the select board um yeah takes this up at their next meeting. And I guess if you could just
convey that you know um Susie and myself have have volunteered to participate if if that's the direction they want to go. >> Yeah, I can do that. Okay, great. All right. Um,
well, so in terms of de debriefing the meeting, I Yeah, I I don't know what people thought. I I thought it was a positive meeting and I think I I've heard that kind of feedback that this I think for many people this felt like
um the rare time where this meeting has felt like people were more or less um I mean there was some you know there's some sort of push back on on on some of the in like specific items shared in the in the regional
school committee's presentation. But I think for the most part it felt like people were um kind of uh on the same page. But I don't know what what did others think. I don't think we got into the territory that does cause the friction.
>> Yeah. Um, and I I know it sounds like being an old crabby lady, but a lot of the information, I mean, even even Deb Leonard said when they looked back at the archives in 2007, it's all there. It's already all there. And she said
there were recommendations they followed and some of the tougher ones they didn't. So, I >> I I felt like we were listening to people who were finally invested in the process and learned a lot. And that's exciting except for except for we need
to go beyond that level. And I think that's part of why it wasn't contentious. >> Yeah. >> No question. I I think that was on purpose. >> Yeah. >> You know, I I got the feeling that they tried to avoid the the waters with the sharks in them and just make sure get us
started on the right foot and the superintendent was very gracious about, you know, appreciating that. >> Yeah, you're right. this there's the the hard the hard work has yet to >> yeah you know >> has yet to come >> it's going to turn it's going to turn
I've been enough of these working groups to know >> yeah I think it got communicated but I don't know if you if everybody but it wasn't um I'm not sure everybody at the meeting heard this but Ammerst has set a
guideline for their departments of three and a half% which I think is actually higher than I think a lot of people had assumed. So, um I just wanted to make sure you all were aware of that. So, >> you know, they have a little bit of a
different process than us where they their finance committee actually establishes a numerical guideline and the expectation is that all service areas will that will be uniformly
applied to all service areas. So that um and I think this is probably based on some new growth estimates that they have, but they've they've established that guideline at three and a half%. I know that John Tricky said at one point,
and I don't know if this was just a flippant comment or if if he actually has sort of done the math, but he said that was like that would be override territory for um for for Pelum. I wonder if that's actually the case. But anyway,
um at least I think we have some sense of maybe how the the superintendent is going to begin the the the budget, you know, drafts. It's maybe probably going to start at that point of like setting Ammeris at three and a
half% and then calculate what that means for everybody else and and we'll see. George. Yeah, I think you know he's been hitting Pelum has been hitting the guard rail >> and I think that's how the numbers have been working out. Every time Ammeris goes three and a half% it's like almost
double wasn't it double digits for them last year. So yeah, that's so the reason I raised my hand is um I just want to say um you know being a veteran of these group meetings in the past that yes Susie they get contentious and it you know we're all we all have our we're working across
purposes but I will say that I got the sense that everybody in that room was was sincere and I also think the makeup of individuals you know looking back on the history of some of the people that were representing some of the other towns and looking who's representing these towns now actually think this is a
better group to work with. I you know, I hate to say it. I'm not going to name towns, but you know, there was one town in particular that was just totally contentious and nasty and their select board member and their finance committee members were just hard to work with. And
I don't see that kind of energy here. I see much more positive energy. I I hope that does turn out to be the case, but I do I I there's reason for optimism. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. And and um I should point out I' I've had a few
opportunities to talk with Steve Weiss on the lever um finance committee and have found him to be um very good person to to work with and and he and I even actually just you know said we should
kind of keep like our channels of communication open about a variety of topics not just schools but you know um you know regionalization kinds of topics like if there are any opportunities to do their sh cost sharing things. So I
think we have a a partner in lever that's that is very open to to talking with us and about potential um you know costs saving kinds of solutions and so
>> you know the future is >> I was going to say you know the future is if if things don't change towns are going to have to going to have to pull together on certain things. >> Yeah. We've seen it with lever and Wendle and it's just it it may be the
only way option we have to save money. It may not always work of course but >> finding those areas where it can. >> Yeah. And and on that point and maybe Haley you might know something about this. Steve had mentioned that he thought he had heard from um
Pat Duffy. Is it Pat Duffy? Le Yeah. that that they had reached out to the Shootsberry Select Board to see if there was any interest in I think the police like regional like further police
regionalization with with Wendell and lever is that do you know anything about that and >> yes um they did reach out and they sent a copy of the agreement they have with Wendell we looked at it and there didn't seem to be a lot of cost
savings on our And and I think you'll find that even when folks regionalize like say police departments, there's not always a cost savings because you have to factor in equipment and oversight and you kind of give all your assets to the
other town to manage. >> So then you end up losing more assets. Um >> but yeah, they had reached out and we decided that at this point it wasn't the best fit for us. So did they was there like a specific proposal or something that they had that they had shared with
the select board or >> they proposed something similar to what they do in lever excuse me in Wendell and then they sent their agreement that they have with Wendle like as a as something we could look at. >> I see. Got it. Okay. if you wouldn't mind sharing that with the finance, I'd
just be curious to learn more about it and and how how their how their you know collaboration works. It' be be interesting to learn about that. Okay. Um,
I did have one related um topic to uh that I needed to inform you guys about which is related to this middle school roof project which we um I think everybody knows um is is so there a
couple updates. One is that I I was told that they did get a grant letter from the MSBA. So that I think at the time of our special town meeting it was a proposal. It has been approved. So there
is a approved project. Um the second thing is that Pelum has decided that they want to um pay their portion of
um of the roof costs, roof project costs out of a capital stabilization fund that they have specifically been building for this purpose. I don't know over what period of time, but so um in order to do
that, there has to be an agreement that all four towns sign off on. And so there was a meeting with um that I think Haley, you were in on that as well, right? I remember. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So um
>> um I think you know I think it's fairly straightforward for for for Shootsberry. I don't see any I couldn't see any reason to for us to not approve this, but um there'll be more details to share with you guys once we actually see some
paperwork on it. But the concept is basically that when the cap the regional's capital plan gets um assessed for for each town you know our for all three communities other than
Pelum a portion of our regional debt payment that we're be responsible for in each of of the of the you know following years um will be um you know uh short initially short-term
and then eventually probably long-term debt for for the roof project that will not be a component that exists in leverage I'm sorry in appelum's um capital assessment for the region that the agreement the agreement will
have some language that basically says that Helm is going to pay the amount that is estimated at this point in time but that if the final costs are greater than that amount, they will be assessed that amount and they'll be responsible
for paying it. And if >> they're going to pay up front, >> they're going to pay up front. Yep. Based on that estimate that was provided. And if they're if the actual final project costs are below, which is probably more likely, they're going to get refunded somehow. That whatever the
the difference is. Um, so that pay that that agreement is being worked on right now by the lawyers and I guess we'll we'll see it at some point soon. Susie, >> do we have our number for what it's going to cost us?
>> Well, we have an estimate. Uh, let me see what that is. Uh, oh shoot, I wrote it down somewhere. Where did I put that? All right. I I might have to email you all. I uh I took note of it, but then
I have so many different notes on my computer. Uh >> can't remember where. >> It was 10 million, wasn't it? 10 million something. I I don't >> um >> We had a number. They upped it. Yeah, but we have a number for for Sheets's portion of it. >> Oh, right.
>> All right. I'll I'll have to pull that up uh and send it to you after the meeting. >> So, does that mean that Pelum's not liable for any of the borrowing costs that get added into the price? And so, that's part of his particular orientation is to not pay the borrowing
costs. >> That that's precisely why they're doing this is that they didn't they didn't want to knowing that this was going to be a project on the horizon. They've been putting aside money for it and um they don't want to incur any interest
expense for it. So that's why they're doing this. >> Jim, >> yeah, I'm just curious why why would we even have to we as the other three towns have to sign off on something like that? Um >> I Yeah, why you I'm thinking the same
thing. Why can't Shootsberry, if we decided we uh we wanted to save up some money for something like this and we didn't want to bring in more debt into our community, >> why couldn't we make that same decision? >> Um >> without having to get sign off.
>> Yeah, we free other I'm sorry. >> We could if they can do it, we can do it. >> No, no, no. What I mean is why why do we need to sign off? >> Apparently, we have to go through this process. Uh I'll read to you what Not that it's going to explain
uh much, but uh I'll I'll I'll read to you what Shannon mentioned. Uh wait, where is that or how she described it? I can imagine if some town was coming up with some scenario that looked risky as
far as their you know how they would be able to commit to pay making those payments, but something that's pretty straightforward >> putting up uh >> you know they're managing their cash and their their debt >> um the same way every every town does.
That wasn't clear to me either, but and obviously we could any individual town could fund its its debt um assessment in any year through whatever means we wanted to including
cash reserves. So we could always do that. The difference here is that Pelum actually wanted to pay their entire costs for the project upfront and not incur any interest expense at all. And for some reason, I don't know the exact
details, but uh apparently in order to do this um it requires um an agreement uh the entire region. Yeah. Uh >> so some there's some legal reason. I'm
not I'm not sure I can explain why. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> It's not surprising that there is. >> Yeah. >> Is it a region? >> Yeah. I just so for everybody's information I I attended a capital planning meeting last year.
Various towns were there and John Tricky was pretty much the one who pulled it together and um I was just a new member of the capital planning committee. So Bob Groves and I we went down the um town of Pelum pretty much pays for all capital items with cash. They what they
do, if I remember him correctly, they have a debt exclusion override every year and they're taking, you know, we're gonna have a debt exclusion override when the library debt starts hitting the budget and we're going to fund that debt service with a debt exclusion override,
additional re revenue in our tax levy specifically for that. They have an addition to their tax revenue specifically for stabilization accounts. and they load up their stabilization accounts and they keep big balances and when these things come along they write a check.
>> Do they do they how do they determine um what they're contributing to that account every year? >> I don't know. That's a good question. They probably decided, you know, we're going to just do this big number. We're going to do it every year. That's a question for John. I'm sure John would correct me on a thing or two, but in
general, that's what they're doing. >> Got it. >> Yeah. And you know, if if you build it in your tax base and it's always there, people don't feel an adjustment. And then when you buy stuff, it just there's no pain. It's kind of what we do in our operating budget, right? We always had
the capital stabilization transfer, but when we had debt service, we would lower that transfer by the amount of the debt service. Last year, we set it to zero because we had all these debt items. >> So that we smooth out the impact. So they're doing it in a slightly different way than we do.
>> Yeah. Uh, Susie, >> and I talked to Gail Weiss about it a little bit >> and um I don't have a full understanding of it, but it did sound like it was a budget. It was an operating budget line that the select board gets to vote that
they will increase it by two and a half every year as an operating expense and it it is used for projects. And she said mostly they just can do it because they have enough money. They started off with a chunk of money and then that's what
they've determined is in their operating budget for these capital expenses and >> so the two and a half percent is an increase on whatever transfer they made in the prior year. You're saying they just add two and a half% every year to that amount. Okay. So at some point they
started this and then they've been basically every year they make that contribution plus two and a half%. Yeah. >> It's they started it but it's an operating expense, right? So yeah. And um and so every year in their budget, they already count that money there. And
she said they mostly can buy things on the first request, but sometimes they say, "No, you'll have to wait a year." And then because it's in their operating budget and it gets So I I would like to know a little bit more about it. Um I think that
>> we have funds that we could start making this dedicated thing to. Um I didn't I didn't hear the part where it might have started with an override but that is certainly one of the mechanisms people can do a debt excluded override um for
capital. Um so we can we can find out about it. Um and actually I think this year we're looking at all sorts of tools and I would like to find out more about that particular tool. Yeah, >> my tool list. >> I bet if we wanted to, we could ask John
to join. He loves talking about this. I know he does. So, we could we could invite him to a meeting and and just say, "Hey, tell us a little bit about what you guys do and what the history of it is and >> yeah, >> what kind of how the community feels about it." Yeah.
>> Um >> Yeah. I would like to do that >> and and there's no doubt the method they're choosing to follow saves them interest costs. >> Yeah. So they I mean George is it like they literally do no borrowing at all. I
mean for >> that's what he said. Yeah. No, that's what he said. In the town of Pelum, we don't borrow. We pay cash for everything. Those were his words. >> Sounds like Bob Groves. >> Yeah. I mean if we went online I'll do it. I'll go online and I'll look at their budget and I'll bet it's not a
debt service line. >> I I man I was going to say like doesn't this like impact their bond rating and all that but if they never if they like literally never borrow money it's not an issue. >> It's not an issue. >> Yeah. You know they built they built the safety complex in the library
>> 25 30 years ago. I don't know how they funded that. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Good. And we know that our uh Joe Mararyian recommendations did include carrying some loans and debt. That's in the recommendation by a person that came
out of do. So it's >> it's just like your personal credit rating, right? They say a little debt makes you look, you know, >> I think we can find a maybe a happy medium. >> Yeah. All right. So, um I I'll ask John
to to join us. uh if he'd be up if he'd be up for joining us to to talk about this. Um okay, great. Uh so I will um I Haley or um myself will share the the
agreement once we actually see something in writing and then I assume we're going to have to I don't I assume we'll have to vote on this at annual town meeting, I guess. Um yeah. Okay. Uh,
I think next on the agenda or anything else on >> AJ, when you say vote on this, what what do you mean? What? What? >> So, so this um this agreement that um all four towns are going to have to approve to allow Pelum to pay for the
roof up front. Yeah, I I think that's going to have to come. It's going to have to be approved by um maybe it's just the select board. Haley, do do you know if that's actually something that needs to be approved by the town at a town meeting or is that something the select board can approve?
>> I don't know off the top of my head, but I can find out. >> Yeah. So, we'll see. One of those entities is is going to have to approve this. >> Um Okay. Uh next up, I think is George. I know that
um we have a final calculation of our FY26 tax rate and was wondering if you could walk us through that and >> how how it how it compared to our projections. >> Yeah. So, um if I could share the screen
that would be helpful. >> Let's see. Okay. Can you do it now? >> Um give me one second. I'm trying to do something here. Uh yeah, that that let me um yep.
So, um this is the information that I have as a member of the board of assessors. So our and I'm going to show you this in comparison to what we did what we were projecting but um basically the
important information here is our new fiscal uh levy limit um the amount that we're raising to fund the budget our new excess levy capacity. I'm going to cover all of these and also the tax rate. Uh it the rate was approved by the state
and we are going to continue with a single tax rate. commercial, open, open space, all the different categories and residential are all going to be at the same rate with the exception of the one and a half, two cents that gets added to the residential for the means testing um
discount for um people who um request it, which is essentially people who have um use the earning tax um I'm forget what it's called. It's the income tax credit that they get in their state return. If your income is below a certain level, you can get a credit to
lower your tax liability. Anybody who qualifies for that on their state tax return qualifies for a discount on Shootsbury approved a policy of allowing them to use mean t means test get a means test discount
which essentially means we lower their property tax bill and that's funded by all the rest of us through a slight increase in the tax rate. >> Didn't mean to go there but yeah >> so I can show you that real quick.
So, here's the tax rate. These are our new tax rates. >> This is residential. This is um the tax rate for all classes except residential. This is the tax rate for residential. >> So, $1621. Um I don't have it in front of me. I
think last year was 15 something. 1583. Oh, actually, you know what? I can't >> 1580. >> 1580. Okay. Um Oh yeah, it's not here. Never mind. Okay. Um, anyways, so the tax rates in
place, but what I'm going to I'm going to show you everything right now. What I did was I took what we proposed. This is what we presented in September at special town meeting. This is the revenue page. It's the exact same information, the exact
same um format that we we present to the town for our proposed. And then this is what the assessors came up with. >> So I just put them side by side and I'm going to go down and show you the differences. So this first section, remember, is just our levy ceiling. It's
the assessed property value of the town times $25 per thousand. The most we could assess a tax levy at is 9.5 million. We're not even close. We're like assessing 70% of that. 71% of
that. This number is basically a 5% 4.6% increase over what it was in the previous year. >> That was the previous year's slightly adjusted by us because we put new growth in it. That's the number we use. But anyhow,
>> our assess values in the town grew by about 5%. >> Um, in our estimate, we estimated the two and a half. Well, that's an easy calculation. We got that right. New growth, we set 45. We were a little low, which is good, but disappointing because
we wanted to be a lot low. Usually in new growth, >> it's where we can be very conservative. And in previous years, we've been coming up with much larger amounts than 45,000. So, this was actually a big disappointment for me. Mhm. >> Um, >> you remember going into fiscal 25, we
thought we were going to be using excess levy capacity to balance that year and we ended up increasing it by like 100,000 because of utility companies that put up all the polls, >> right? >> That didn't happen this year. So, one of our misses when we talk about >> and and the reason I did this I I guess
I'm a little disheveled right now, but the reason I did this was that there was an article in the paper yesterday. I'm sure most of you are aware of it where um the Gazette reporter had attended or saw the the recording of the minutes the meeting between the select board and
head assessor, the person we contracted to prepare the tax rate this year. And he reported on the all these number those numbers I just showed you, the tax rate and also the average single taxpayer tax bill. And it end the tax
average single family home tax bill ended up coming out $98 higher than what we presented and forecast at town meeting. And so I put this together to help us decipher why that happened
>> so that we can avoid that embarrassment in the future because personally I'm embarrassed by it. I thought we should come closer and we didn't. So the first thing I did was I looked at our revenue estimates and I compared them to what to the actual and you can see we we actually did better on this particular
item. So we get down to this subtotal. We're okay. We got the debt exclusion override piece. We knew that number that was right. >> So then you have the excess levy capacity. This is basically our miss. We thought
that it was going to be 644. It's smaller, which means we used more excess levy capacity. I think everybody knows what that means. >> So, this is actually it's a positive number, but it's a negative number from our point of view. And I'm going to show you the breakout. I've got a whole table
that shows how we got to this number. >> Okay. Okay. Now, on the overlay, the overlay is a cushion that the assessors put in for the amount that they need to make sure that if people don't pay or there's
abatements, we collect a little extra tax than levy than we need. And so we thought that what they would do is we thought that we would need this amount of money to balance our budget, but we thought they'd use a an overlay
of 40. So we used a 6104, a higher number up in this upper section. When we calculated what the excess leverage capacity may be, the assessor used a lower number which means we actually under underestimated revenue if you will
or the decrease to revenue. So this is a positive for us. >> Mhm. >> And we could talk about overlays in the future, but that's just another thing. These are all small numbers. >> And then you get to state aid and on the state I'm just going to the bottom line. >> State ended up bringing in giving us
$10,000 less than we thought. Okay. >> And it's you can see it's made up of all these items. It's all nickels and dimes, but at the end >> they add up. >> Yeah, they add up. And then the same thing. So then on the local aid estimates, we really missed. We missed
by 25,000. >> Um, you know, when the assessor is putting together the tax recap to calculate the tax rate, he's talking to everybody. I He's talking to tax collector. He's talking to the accountant. These are the numbers he comes up with. This was a shocker to me
because it rises every year. So I was really surprised that he used this number. This he's probably seeing that these excise taxes, you know, the VBOS's are he must see what the collections are year to date, you know, or what they were in 25 and adjusted. And I'm sure that's true for these other things. So
unfortunately, we missed here. >> And so and then this 940, I'm not sure what that is, but anyways, I'm going to jump to the bottom and I'm going to show you what I just showed you. So these are the areas where we missed these. This is one where we did well. We did well, but these are the two big items that we
missed. >> So we overestimated revenues by 26743. And that equates to about $30 on the average single family tax bill. So that wasn't the reason why we missed as much as we did. And I'm going to show
everybody what we missed. So when we prepare the budget in this column, we know that this won't be the real tax rate and we also know that this won't be the real single family tax value. We also know that this won't up here won't be the real assessed value
which is assessed value divided into um revenues for the tax levy equals the tax rate. Mhm. >> We keep the assessed numbers steady because we don't know how much they're going to
increase, but they usually increase in lock step. When the assessed value of the town goes up 5%, the average single family home goes up 5%. So no matter what calculation we use, you'll get the same number. >> Mhm. >> That make sense? >> Yep. >> And so we were confident with this
number here, 6,672. And we told we basically reported on our budget that that would be a $415 increase from FYF25. >> Mhm. >> What happened was the assessed value of
the town went up by about 5%. But the assessed value of residential property went up more and that's what I read in the newspaper article and that's what the comments were um at this select board meeting. And so, and those of you who are at the Forttown meeting,
Shamagano actually addressed this when he was answering the question to a person who said, "How come our taxes go up by more than 2 and a half%." And he said, "The shift between how much the commercial properties are supporting and how much residential properties are
supporting can change. And when that happens, one or the other picks up a greater share of the tax levy. So what happened with us was the single family value here
went up by more than the total assessed value of the whole town which meant that the single family payers actually pick up a greater portion and that's what I believe so I did I I wrote this here hope this makes sense so the the 26743
that we missed in revenue we overestimated in revenue that comes out to about $30 per single family home. Then the property tax assessment increased by 4.6, but the average single family by 5.6. Had the average single family value increased by 4.6, the
value, this 417 being used here would have been 413785 and that would have resulted an average single tax bill of 6,707. >> Okay. And so there's what it is.
>> I see >> the 66 6770. There's what we would have had if it had increased at the same level as the whole value. That accounts for about $63. This is what I think happened. This kind of make this makes sense to me. >> Yeah.
And so I think as a member of the board of assessors I need to talk to the head assessor about how we can do a better job of you know accounting for something like this if we even can or include him in this conversation when present to him
our budget that we put together together show him this calculation and see what he thinks. >> Yeah, >> we haven't hired him by the way. He's um but he looks like he's going to be our next replacement. He contracted with us this year to do the tax recap and he's
retiring in March and we do are going to um make an offer to him to work for us full-time. But until that happens, but this is what I think happened. >> Yeah. >> This is what it looks like happened. So, so in other words, about about a third
of that sort of roughly $100 discrepancy in the average single family tax bill, about a third of that was a function of us um
overestimating o overestimating some state aid revenues. And about twothirds of it was this shift in the greater proportion of increased values of residential property
versus non-residential property. Is that >> resulting in an increased proportion of the amount of tax levy that the residents pay? That's correct. Um, how unusual was is was that just is that discrepancy the fact that we would see a
different kind of increase for all property versus residential property? >> You know, I'm I I would say that it's probably common and I think we never really saw it because we always underestimated the revenues that first part that 27,000. Usually it goes the other way and we just weren't
conservative enough and we've always did well and we always ended up with a lower average single tax increase than we projected. So we never looked into it. But what I will say is one thing we do know with some of the commercial property is some of the commercial
property depreciates. >> And I know that's true for personal property. It might be true for real estate as well. their real estate. If that's true, then sometimes commercial properties are going to go down until the utility company adds more things,
>> right? >> Yeah. I I I'm not the best I I'm not really sure, AJ. >> Okay, got it. >> But we do know that it happened in Ammeris because Sean Sean mentioned it. >> Mentioned it. No. Uh Cy, >> so the other property that is part of
the 4.6 Six is does that include um we don't have much commercial. Does that include state land or Koh's undeveloped land? What's in that part of the 4.6? >> Um it does not include state land. State
land is all in the local aid under um pilot money >> payment L of taxes. Uh Kohl's um don't know. Um a lot of Kohl's land is in chapter 60. I don't think it's considered commercial. I think it's
probably in residential. I'd have to find out, Susie. Um, the commercial property is going to be the solar that we have in town. It's going to be Clark and Clark, the two different Clark businesses. It's going to be some utility properties. Utilities have a
pretty good footprint. Now, a lot of their tax is in personal property, not real property, right? But personal property is in here. It's in the tax recap. It's one of the sources of the tax levy. So that's where the depreciation happens. They're polls,
they put them in, we have a value, and then we tax it at a lower rate over a I'm not even sure 10 20 year period depending on what the equipment is. >> And the other thing is he he looked at local aid and came came up with different numbers, but those are not
hard numbers, right? We don't know, >> right? These are estimates. That's correct. those. So, he gets to estimate differently than us, but I'm not sure that that's going to pan out as the as uh that his idea is >> he may be very conservative.
>> Yeah. >> And you know, sometimes look at it as a way to generate cash. >> Yeah. >> So, these aren't set and um and you know, I don't know. I I feel like a conversation would have been good, but maybe it's considered his own his own
domain to make I'll talk to them about that for next year and see if we can do something a little better. It is his domain, but you know, he's working with Gail, he's working with Ellen, he's working with Leslie, and he's not, you know, he's
he's looking at these numbers. He's got his rationale. And, you know, I would say like this second item, the excise tax, he probably looked at 25. He wouldn't cut it by more than half if he didn't have some basis for that. So,
>> you know, >> is there ever a process where these actually get reconciled with actual free cash process when they close the books? >> Ah, it's free cash. Got it. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. >> George, is this a guy that used to work in Belchure Town? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Jay Whan. >> Yeah, we met him at the >> John. His name is Jay. Do you know him? >> We met him at the uh that >> workshop. He was summit. >> I forgot. Yes. I wasn't there. Yes.
So, we we'll see. I I can't really I probably said too much about our relationship with him, but we are hopeful that um he might be able to be our our assessor. We'll see. >> Okay. Any other questions for George on this?
>> Have we had any uh noise come back? I mean, so it comes up in the paper, $500. Um, people may not remember what we projected because that's on a paper that we have. Um, have we heard anything?
>> I haven't. I I will tell you this, you know, I read these articles for all the towns, right? I I read the Gazette every morning, of course, and this what this article was is a standard template that the Gazette uses every time a town has a tax classification hearing. And what's
good about these articles is there's no comparison to any kind of pro proposals that were made generally and there's no real drama in it. These are just the facts. In fact, I talked to my wife about this today and she said the article just read like, you know, here it is, you know, and it's like it does.
>> But of course, there are going to be some people in town. We're not the only ones who have the piece of paper to just, you know, there are people who took the budget home and they have it in their drawer. There are I'm sure some people are going to pull it out and look at it. I I I no doubt about it. >> But the thing that the thing the
newspaper didn't do is it said, you know, we were not high high as high as some of the average family ones, but it didn't say what other towns increases in terms of dollars are. Um I think I've I'm not sure where people are in setting their tax rates, whether we're early.
Um, and so I'll be watching the newspaper, but it would have been helpful not to just compare the bottom line, but to compare the increase because that's the headline. That's what people are being bopped. >> Yes. Yeah. You and one of the reasons they didn't do that, Susie, I'm sure, is
because a lot of towns haven't got their tax rates set. >> Not okay. >> You're going to see those articles in the course of the next four weeks. You know, Hadley, Sunderland, you know, Weightley, all the towns, it's going to start coming out. Ammerst, I think. >> I don't think Ammerst has been out yet. Ours is early, but you know, we we
contracted with this person very early with Jay very early and um he got right down to it and we were lucky because David Burgess whose employment ended in June was hanging around for the last three months and worked with Jay who he knows very well and they work together
very easily and so a lot of work was taken care of and Roy Bishop was on it as well. So, um, we'll see what what 2026 has, but I thought maybe you will be interested to see what the average single tax bills for LA last year were
for some of the select towns. I got this from from the assessor's office. So, you can see where we are relative to other towns. And as you know, Pelum, Leverett, and Ammerst are always higher than us. Ammeris is more than $2,000 higher than
us. It's not on here, but Ammeris bill is almost 10. I think it's over $10,000, the average single family. So, even in fiscal 25. So, yeah, we were about 50 percentile in FY25. If you go to the DLS
website, um you can see all the towns, they rank them, and we were pretty much smack dab in the middle in the Commonwealth, which is not bad for a town that doesn't have a commercial base. Unfortunately, that's changing.
All right. Well, thanks for walking us through that, George. And thanks for doing Oh, you're welcome. You know, I think >> Can you send it to me, please? >> Oh, that's >> Can you send me that table? That table? Yeah, >> this one right here. >> The spread? No, the spreadsheet.
>> All right, I'll send it to everybody. >> Yeah, >> great. Um, >> all right. Let me uh let me stop. >> Anything else for George before we uh move on? All right. Um, Cece, did you want to
update us on community outreach? >> Yeah. >> Work. And I know you've got a project you're >> Yeah. >> So, Laura and I laid out a path for once a month um shot of fiscal information
for the town. We followed the timeline of the budget process. So, we started off with lobbying because the budgets aren't set yet. And um there were a lot of different topics that have legislation in front of um in front of
our state legislature and we wanted people to have access to how you would connect. That went out as a town announce. Um I had one person respond to me when they saw it. Um,
but Laura and I recognize that a town announce is not very deep into the soil of grassroots. Um, and there's actually uh 682 people in well people on town announce.
I'm not sure if they're all Shootsberry people, but probably are. And that's out of 980 households. And I don't know if some of those houses are two people from the same house signed up for town announce. Um so like in my house both of
us get it. So you know 600 does not represent um a vast majority of the people in town. So Laura and I talked about what other ways to do outreach besides this one shot over the bow. Um,
and we um because I'm connected to the school budget and um and as the liaison and that issue is the hottest one in front of us right now. Um I
um connected to the PTO. I got on their agenda on Monday and um went in and what I was going to find out is how many people had seen the town announce and um what kind of information more information they wanted and how they
wanted to um maybe activate people around it. Um, so I got some good ideas. Um, and um, most of the people in that groom room were not on town announce. So it's
yep, here we go. We're we're talking, we're making a noise, but it's not being heard. So, uh, for one thing, it's getting people to get on town announce. Another thing was I um gave them the a
print out of what we had said, but um the links didn't come out very clearly. And I also our principal was there and I asked her if we could put our fiscal fls flashes in the Roadtown News and um
that's going to happen. Um, so, >> uh, when I got home, um, Elizabeth Murphy, who is, um, the treasurer of the, um, PTO, um, contacted me and said, you know, we
can share this information with our classroom liaison. Um, so that's another way that they might get to see this information. Um, but if people want to write to the legislature, we need a text for some messaging that they can use. And another
parent at the group said, "Yeah, we don't have time to figure this out. Just give us the message." So, um, so that so then I'm in a different quadrant. It's not just passing on our information, it's people wanting us to process it for
them and with them. Um I have um so I drafted something um but again this fin asked to see what um information Laura andor I drafted and so
that's that's one thing to think about. Um the timing of urgency is a little bit hard. There was there was a big um Zoom meeting yesterday um and the MTA
submitted that um letter that people on the finum in Shootsbury signed on to and there were a,78 signatures for that and it was presented to the governor and it's pretty um direct and um that's just
one of the many steps that's being taken to bring this issue to to bear on the legislature. Um, so I could just send that letter to Elizabeth and she can decide how to distribute it. She does
think that she would like to be a liaison to the fincom for the PTO, which we've never had that before. Um, because she wants to keep track of the information and then she would funnel it to the school community as she sees
useful. Um, and I did testify at in Greenfield. George and I went up there and I did my testimony, but that was me. And I did say I'm the a member of the FINCOM. Um,
but I didn't testify as the FINCOM. But, um, that whole boundary of being a voice, having a voice, using my voice, um, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I felt just a town announce isn't
enough. If you want to engage people, you have to do the grassroots stuff. One of the things I was thinking about is um doing pop uh popcorn and postcards. Um and they thought it would be good if I did it at the library once it opens and
have a session where you advertise and people can come and write out a postcard. I figured out that finding a stamp and an address is tough. So, we would just collect them all in a big mailbag and begin to send bags of
postcards to the legislators. Um, I know Joe and Natalie would happily distribute them to other people. So, it's this it's this community building part. um helping people be more aware and participate at
whatever level, whether it's a a already done text uh postcard that they just sign their name and address or it's people emailing or they write their own message. Um other towns are working on this. Leverit
um I I don't think Tim that guy Tim Shores he didn't announce it. Um, but Leit's going to have a meeting um with Joe Cmerford, Natalie Blle, Jessica Jessica Kerwin who spoke at the
testimony. They're going to have a meeting in the Lever Library on December 13th. If we if this idea of a postcard um can get generated, then every time we go somewhere, we can bring these
postcards, collect them, and and send them to the legislature. So, that's an opportunity. And um they're addressing all the things that were addressed at the hearing um in in Greenfield. Um, and
the the PTO said, "Well, we're going to have a skating party on January 31st. You can bring the postcards, you can hand them out, you can collect them, and I know AJ likes to skate," they said. So, I am sure he'll be at that skating
party. And so, um, that's, um, those are the things that are coming up right now. Um on the MTA letter where there's 1,078 signatures, Shootsberry had eight or
nine. Um some towns didn't get the didn't get the message. Our select board didn't get the message. But in the thousand over thousand signatures, it covered fin school committee members um and select boards from towns all over
Massachusetts. And um I think we have to stay with this wave of energy and finding effective ways beyond a town announce like take that town announce and then ground it into activities that people can participate
in. That's what I think's going on. Yeah, that I I saw in the gazette that I think that's the lead article on the online gazette at least is that um is the letter um and an article about it.
So, and they include the the full text of the letter and all the signitories. >> Uh yeah, I think that sounds great. I mean, what what what
action or what steps do you think we can take as a fincom to um so I think you you need you need to get back to is it Elizabeth? Is that her name? >> Yeah. >> From the PTO. Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um >> so I know you had drafted a letter. Um, do you want us to look at that right now and see if the the finance committee can sign off on that so that you can
represent it as the finance committee's position? >> Yeah. However, we however as a committee we want to do it. I can represent it as my part because this is where I'm spending a lot of time and energy. Um, I can represent it as
>> uh I I Yeah, I think if you show it to them, it's not totally just information that's out there. It's how you spin it that makes a difference. >> All right. Well, if it's okay with you, let let me share the text that you you
had sent me and we can talk about um whether the committee's comfortable with us having you represent this as not just your own individual perspective. So, we're looking at the
blue text here. Um maybe let's all take a minute to just read this here. Did you blow it up, please? >> Yeah. >> Does that help or let's see a little >> That's better.
>> That's better. All right. Um the only suggestion I would make to to allow you to represent this as the >> fincom's >> view would be to say that and where you
say uh facing a six plus% increase in property tax for FY26 and F20 FY27 looks worse. I might just say something like and FY27 may be worse or something like that.
>> Well, we anticipate that FY27 will be roughly the same. See, I I I don't want to I I I just am hesitant to because I just think it's early sort of stage still and I I I'm hesitant to
create like a very specific expectation um because we don't quite know what we're going to be getting back from departments. So that's why I'm thinking maybe just hedging a little bit and saying something like an FY27 may be worse.
>> Okay. And if I may, in the same paragraph at the at the bottom of the paragraph, the last sentence, >> I like, first of all, Susie, I think this is great. >> Um, I'd rather not use terms like wrecking ball. Um, I'd rather say all
town services are damaged by these budget are are affected by these >> all town services are affected by these budget pressures. I think you don't need the word 'the'. Um, this scenario and and
draws funds away something to the effect of draws funds away from other affects other departments as well as it draws funds away from other or the ability to >> drop that last sentence because the one
before it says all town services >> and instead of damaged we use affected. Yeah, I think effect is better. I don't I just don't want to use I'd rather keep it a little more professional for the legislators. Okay.
>> Not that damage isn't right. It is >> right. >> This is great. >> Well, these are Yeah. And so this is an interesting thing. People want to participate, but they know nothing. And so this is way more than anybody needs to know. Also, I you know, put it on a
postcard. That's too that's taking a complicated thing and trying to shrink it. So this is really a paragraph that I expect or a short shot that I expect people to take from not do entirely.
>> Um and uh so yeah, those that's right. I know that the tone can get somewhere that I don't really want it to get. So I appreciate the editing. And then um just for your knowledge, it's 38,480
students or so are in these towns that are being whacked by this. >> So um so that's so okay. So I will make sure I bring things up. I'm also sending I sent to um Elizabeth the MTA letter which is
very specific. It's and actually it's quite strong. Um, and I think what I have to do if I hold postcard sessions, I have to have this information out for people. What I want out of a postcard popcorn and postcard session is that
people talk to each other and get ideas from each other. It's not just like how many postcards we can send, but how aware we can make people and involved and get a little skin in the game. And so just having gone to the PTO, now
Elizabeth needs to know. She she wants to know. And um Ann McGill signed that MTA letter and not through us. So some people did get it from another source. Um but um the other events that are
happening is on December 10th. Um Joe Kmerford's holding a town hall, a virtual one. Um, and I'm not sure why if everybody gets these informations, like I got the MTA letter, um, and I'm
getting the town hall announcement. I don't know if people want me to forward it to them or if you already are getting it through some contact you have with people involved in this issue.
I got the comer for town hall uh email, but I think I I get her um >> Okay. >> public. But um I I'm wondering is that event that Lever is hosting, is that open to >> I'm working on finding that out. It just
I have to get somebody in town hall to get me Tim Shor's contact. Um, so, so but I did write I did email him right away, but I don't think he got it because I had to send it to the town to get to him. >> So, anyways, >> all right,
>> that one um will be I mean, if I can get this postcard idea going, I'd bring those blank postcards there. Um, and Ann McIll said I could put a a bag in the front hallway for people to drop off
their postcards. And then I just send them in groups in batches so that it has more of an impact than just one postcard at a time. >> Yeah, I think that's a great that would be great. Um, the other question I have for you is is
I know it was a it was probably a long hearing, but is that was the is the Greenfield event that you and George attended was that recorded and do you know if there's a video available of it? It was recorded and I think Joe Kumford's office has that.
>> Okay. All right. I'm gonna try to >> I got that in an email somewhere. >> You did? >> Would you mind sharing that, Molly? Yeah. >> If you find it. Yeah. >> If I find it. Um, can I um Susie, the second sentence I think needs just some some edits. >> Okay.
>> I think you probably want to say the well researched report. >> Okay. >> And rural schools. Okay. >> And then I don't know if it's have been struggling or still had. I don't know. >> I'm not so good at editing at this time of night.
>> Yeah, maybe. And I'll look at it again. This was me trying to get a draft out um >> because I knew it either be at this meeting or not. Um so now it's and I will edit it more carefully. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. S Susie on the the last paragraph. >> Yeah.
>> You ref you referenced 34 recommendations. >> Yeah. And then you you talk about supporting these two resolutions. Um is a lot of these recommendations within those resolutions is that mostly that that $60 million typo?
>> Um so Natalie BL has the text that's proposed for these to for this legislation and um yeah, she was the one of the spearheads of the 2022 report.
And so, yeah, she's put in the pieces of the recommendation. Um, what was what was probably what set people on fire was that, you know, the number of 60 million was the first recommendation on the
list. And in fact, the state cut that rural aid. Yeah. 25%. It's like, where are your come where are you coming from? And so, um, the, um, MTA letter has a lot of the same parts
of the recommendation strengthening the sped circuit breaker program. Um, that's in there. And so, yeah, this is a this we are in a massive time right now on this one. This is not and this started in 2019 with the s with
the um, student opportunity act. They recognized right then that the rural schools were not going to do well until they addressed it. And so it came out at the same time as the um as part it was recommended by this committee. There was
a commission recommended because they knew they had to address it. And the report was in 2022 and nothing nothing's come of it other than political fire. >> All right, I will edit it more carefully. I'll send it out as a
information paragraph to Elizabeth. she'll decide the best way to reach parents that won't infringe on the school process. And I and also whatever sources people see that sound um like we
want to be pushing that, we can do that. And when I get to the first postcard time, which I believe will be the lever one, um I will have vetted these these information sheets to the fincom. But um
I didn't I didn't sign this in any way. I have to think about a signature thing. I guess we'll just say the Shootsberry Finance Committee recommends this or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think he can represent it as something we discuss and endorse. So
>> yeah. And any other things people can think about? How do you connect to people? So I did the PTO. Um somebody wanted to know if I was going to present to the school committee. I guess that makes sense. Um and um there
are sort of social groups in town. I will probably present this to the laughing old ladies. Um this this is where we need but we need to give people a specific action and that's why I thought the postcard or emails are would
have to come from the town's people. >> Yeah. >> One thought I have Susie is um just throw it out there real quick. Many times you go somewhere an event and there's a table set up. >> Yeah. And you know, you have things to try to attract people to the table and then you do your thing. And we got a
we're gonna have a library sell ceremony for the new building. Yeah. Wouldn't hurt to have something on the side. >> You know, a lot of people streaming in. And every time we have some sort of event >> in town and maybe even elsewhere, >> be prepared to just, oh, I just found out on Saturday there's something going
on at the middle school. Throw that table in the car, get the volunteers together, and get down there, you know? >> Right. I agree. And I think that that's the kind of visibility the FinCom will profit from because when it comes to town meeting, they'll know who we are. They'll know what we've been
working on. They'll see our effort and they will help support the things that we're trying to make happen. >> Yeah. >> That said, we're busy and I'm on three committees. >> Yeah. Yeah. Elizabeth said, "There's a book fair tonight. You're gonna be
there?" It's like, "Oh my god, no. I'm gonna be at the FinCom meeting. Well, I appreciate it. >> Okay, good. >> All right. Um, that is all I have on the agenda for tonight. Is there anything else folks
needed to discuss? >> Yes. I need to tell you a little bit about the school. They're going to put out their draft budget >> tomorrow night. I have a they had the meeting >> and Caitlyn gave me a heads up. She said, "You know, we've put together a
level services budget, but I got to give you a heads up. There's sticker shock because there's an out of district placement in here and the transportation costs. Um, and they're this is their first um throw it out and start working
harder on it. Um, but here we are. So when you see all the list of things that need to get fixed at the state level, >> you can also support the sped >> circuit breaker problems um because they are um upon us.
>> Just to be clear, it's a new out of >> the second placement, right? >> I don't know if the first placement is still there, but this is a new one. >> Okay, got it. All right. Well, I'm gonna send the a link to that Google folder. Um, Susie, I guess when
you whenever you do get >> Yeah. >> draft, you can just drop it in there or Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And um >> take it from there. Anything else folks needed to discuss or share? >> Um I just want to tell you, AJ, um I
should have mentioned it earlier. You're going to create that um Google Drive. I'll also put in there the schedule for um FY27 FinCom transfers and I'll start the project um capitalization I'm sorry the um capex schedule as well. They
won't necessarily be ready immediately but I'll get them I'll get going on those and get those in place. >> Okay, terrific. That'd be great. I have to mention >> do we um there are different projects that we
need to look into and one of them is um oh that's the wrong paper. One of them is uh a sped stabilization fund. I talked with Caitlyn about that and so I can send the state um description of what
that is and we should maybe begin to think about that. We also can be thinking about our trash process because the contract will be up in FY20 no in in 2027 and if we are making any changes to our
trash program. Um we need to be working on that now because it would be a select board >> decision. It would be a fincom advising and it would be the recycling committee. Um, and so I wonder if we
need a small I wonder what we need to prepare before we take it out there. >> Yeah. >> Susie, what was the what was the item before that that you mentioned? >> Um, the sped stabilization fund.
>> Oh, right. Yeah. No, I I'm totally on board. We need a sped stabilization fund. And I think that's how we should be using a portion of our charter money, our uh school choice >> choice money. And so and we all and the last idea I had was the capital stabilization. And we already know we're
going to invite John Tricky. But these are kind of all tools on deck, right? We need to start getting it. And so the trash one, we need to I I looked at what um Lever did and the difference between what we spend a year and leverage spends a year is about 70,000. but they do not
pick up your trash. And so, um, >> you you were c comparing the costs of their running the transfer station versus our contract. Uh, >> yes. All of their expenses for for trash and all of ours and um about $70,000.
Um, and the reason I was attracted to the Leverit plan, which is not the only plan out there that's an alternative, um, is because it uses a lot of volunteers. It becomes a platform for people in town to see each other,
volunteer to do things together, and it would and it's coste effective um, >> trash collection. I wonder if another like if if part of that model could be a joint kind of
regional transfer station like what could would they have the capacity if we combined >> right >> efforts for both towns if that would further reduce those costs. I would think it would. Right.
>> Right. So the what I'm um aware of is this is not just a financial decision. Um, and so how do you go from we should look into this to looking into this? Um, I find going to places visiting them
tells me a lot more than what it's on the paper. Um, you can't really see the volunteer community network that came out of this. Um, I don't the space they use is bigger than what we have particularly. We haven't identified a
space big enough. But I believe what we need to do is say if we if we agree as a committee that we're going to look into this then we would go to the select board and say we need to be looking at this and so who do you want to sit down
together to begin the process of evaluating and looking at into this. >> Yeah. I mean, maybe one thought, Susie, is that it might be um it might be worthwhile to actually
invite the select board to a FinCom meeting. I don't know if they um to to talk about um a couple of sort of long-term planning ideas for um including that
one. I think there's another one that's come up which is sort of you know, the the health insurance. Um, you know, I know that there are people working on that and that's further along, but um I think it I think our
committee would still be interested in learning about kind of what our options are in terms of thinking about potentially a different provider or what options exist. I I feel like another kind of long-term project has been to
think about um the um sort of benefits policies. I think this came up at our um department head meeting some ideas about well
is it time to take a fresh look at at those policies and thinking about kind of what's the you know the distributions of who's responsible for what portion are part-time employees eligible for the same
benefits as full-time like all all of those policies like it you know might worth having a few people look at that and talk discuss it and talk about it. Um, so maybe maybe there's a an opportunity for us to invite the select board to talk about a few different
topics to see where we might want to start to follow up and actually form some kinds of, you know, committees, groups to work on work on those ideas and study them. Yeah, I think um the trash one because
there's a contract that has to be done in 2027, we would at least get a quick start on >> a little more based. >> Yeah. >> To me, that sounds like an ad hoc committee because I think it needs to be made up of various people from various committees.
>> Yeah. >> And so, not necessarily our project, but the select board, you know, if you show them those numbers, they're probably going to say, you know, that's a big difference. we really should look into it, >> right? So I So at least we got to get there and show them the numbers and get
a go-ahad to start a committee that has the different stakeholders in it. >> Yeah. Okay. Let me let me give a call to um Melissa or Rita and see if they would be uh available to join us uh either at
our next meeting or the one after that to just um talk about the uh yeah this idea of a forming a study group to look at trash options and potentially other >> great >> other projects.
>> Great. >> Okay, great. >> Um anything else? >> Okay. Um next meeting is two weeks. Uh that is >> December 2nd.
>> December 2nd. And uh we'll meet with uh Highway and and Fire >> and Laura and I will have this next um one, the drafted next news flash because we want it out in the middle of the month and you need to see it first. So
it'll be on the December 2nd agenda. >> Awesome. That's great. >> And I will not be attending that next meeting. Okay. Um, and I'll let you know if the highway chief can. And also AJ, maybe in December, you, me, Haley. >> Yes. >> We can continue the long range plan.
>> Yes. Um, that sounds great. I'll I'll um I'll send you guys. What What are your travel plans, George? Are you >> I'm gone all next week and I'll be back the I'm coming home on that the second. So, anytime after the fourth or after, I just give me some options.
>> Yeah, I'll Okay, I'll send an email. We'll we'll we'll find some uh one or two options during that week. Okay, I will um make a motion to adjurnn the fin. >> Second Harvin I >> cashew I
>> Moer I. >> Moss Ito I >> Walton I >> All right. Thanks everyone. >> Good night. >> See you in a couple nights. >> You all have a good one. >> You too, too.