crew all right I see Bob's screen but I don't see Bob i assume he's he can hear us uh I'm gonna call the FinCon to order at 6:30 and uh you may have
noticed that I sent a message i thought it would be helpful to have um Chief Burgess join us just because you know I feel like that the increase to the police department has sort of led to some
questions and I know we were sort of all trying to figure out how to how to account for and explain the you know what what at least on paper looks like and well it is a significant increase in operating expenses for the police
department and I think we're going to need to even you know we're going to need to to understand that and I felt like there was still a little bit of of confusion about it so um she's probably going to hop on any minute in fact I'm going to check my
email um I think she also needs to practice explaining it because she may have to on Tom Floor yeah I was looking at that document um that she shared with us when we were reviewing her initial budget review and
um it's like I was even having a hard time sort of like recalling um sort of how to how to explain um what you know kind of the the the model that she ends up with there
which is you know I met with her the other day you Oh good yeah we spent an hour together and so I I'll let her speak for herself but I was going to report to the committee tonight about that okay that's great i don't know how she she contacted you to invite herself or I I reached out
to her um to see if she was uh will able to join us just for a few minutes just to kind of talk through you know it see part part of my thinking was like it's just been a long time since we looked at her budget that was like I think in
November i think it was one of the first departments we did and I feel like it is the the most complicated um budget scenario it's a substantial It's a substantial increase so I just thought it would be helpful to
have her kind of walk through her proposal one more time for us as we're kind of nearing you know our deliberate end of our deliberations so um all right i thought she would hop on let's go to
the minutes uh oh wait she said "I'm running late need to be on select board to the link." Well it's next okay so why don't we move on and uh and when she gets on when she hops on you know we can cut to that let me just respond to her
email real quick uh So let's look at minutes um from April 1st okay uh let's see does anyone has everyone had a chance to look through
this uh [Music] Can I ask a question now just for clarification not to criticize the minutes at all but just in terms but my understanding was that that the that now the regional agreement is the modified statutory
method so these minutes indicate that that's not clear that was that was was clear to me after our meeting that but George has written here that it has to be approved unanimously because it's uh it's it's an amendment to the statutory
method is that is that all accurate is that um so yeah so I I do think there's a little bit of confusion with item 6E desi indicated we only have the options to use the modified statutory
method agreed to by towns or the statutory method um so no actually that is that is correct yeah um so Bob I think just to clarify
um when any anytime we're referring I think from this point forward anytime we're referring to the modified statutory method we're referring to the regional agreement method um and
so regional school districts always have the options of what is what allocation method is laid out in their regional agreement or the state's statutory method um those two exist and if a if a
regional school if a if a a region has approved an alternative method um that desi has then approved that becomes an additional option as well so I guess what confuses me here is is the letter G
in that section uh I guess my un my view is that or my understanding is that if we had a regional agreement then we would need to have a unanimous approval okay of the allocation yeah so G George I think what this is
referring to is that if the town were to I'm sorry if the region were to develop an alternative assessment method next year or any year in the future that alternative assessment method would would require the approval of all four
towns as long as we're utilizing the regional agreement method or the you know modified stats or however whatever we want to call it that's only going to require um twothirds of the towns so I think in the
future the regional the region approves were to approve an alternative method yes that then method it will need to be approved by all four towns yes exactly
it will need to be right so in the future the region if in the future the region were to approve an alternative method other than the above I'm going to say other than the above just to be clear then um it will need to be approved by
all four towns otherwise statutory method would be used okay got it yeah um the only other related point we made although I don't know if it's needed for the M minutes was that if if if the region were to do that were to have an
alternative assessment method that was approved by Desi um that um the the region regional school committee would always have the option to
choose that alternative or the regional agreement method in you know April or March or whenever it is that they're deliberating o over their budget in other words like the towns get to say "Here's a regional agreement method here's an alternative
assessment method." But the regional school committee is ultimately going to can choose between those two so I'll enter I'll enter an H and say the ultimate approval a decision of which
method to use is made committee yeah the final decision regarding which method to use for the assessments
is decided by is made by Okay got it is made by the regional school committee okay got it all right uh Jim
yes this is in um uh section seven VIII yep um I you probably meant this but once the library bonding is complete that wouldn't be you would you don't mean building do you by any chance you said
seven seven C yeah you said I I Okay all right yep i don't independent line will be increased by 10,000 independent audit line will be increased it probably is the library bonding once
the library bonding is complete we can go back are you sure about that i I I I thought it was more or less based on the construction itself when the construction was complete but I don't know way um but they don't start the B I thought they didn't start it till the
construction's complete because they don't know what they're going to borrow until they know what the final right when they finish the punch list then they have the final cost and then they can take all the anticipated bonds okay all right uh well in in addition to that
uh the audits are uh the required audits are every two years not every three years is that the right three i thought Susie said it was three we need three consecutive ones for preparing for the
bonding oh yeah but I'm just I'm just talking about what what the normal situation would be if that wasn't the case because it says "Oh maybe they'll go to audits every two years." Okay that's what you're saying very less i think we need to check that out i don't know that
that's true well it is true uh we went through uh on the MLP we went through this with the uh with whoever does the audits because because our our our portion the MLP's a portion of what it cost you of what it should
cost the MLP went up considerably and and we confirmed that with lever and and other towns were in the same position but it is every two years so we set aside 2,000 bucks uh per year to pay for $4,000 worth of auditing every every um
every other year i think that might be for the MLP but I don't think No no no it's it's for the town the town the town plus the MLP uh gets audited together um every two years except under special circumstances which
of course now includes the construction of the library which which is forcing it more you know into a yearly regimen so to speak well I went and talked to Gail Weiss i guess this means I should go talk to her again i'm going to say we might be able to go
back to our regular um Just leave out scheduled audits audit schedule yeah yeah that would I'll keep it generic for now we can clarify in our next set of minutes okay that sounds good able to go back to audits on
our I'll say regular basis all right that's fine on normal or historical I don't know what basis [Music] okay so go and uh we may be able to go back to audits on our normal basis okay
okay it's a little rough but that'll work uh sure on number eight did we want to put in that we um we uh we'll keep the PAS line with a zero budget it may be needed in the
future and that funds from cash reserves will be used in FY 26 because it sounds like there's zero spending but it's not zero spending it's right in the operating uh funds will be
transferred from cash reserves in FY26 to the what PAS fund account funds I'll just say PAS funds Yeah pas mitigation funds or Oh yeah yeah i like
that pass mitigation fund i like that okay got it any other suggestions all right i'll make a motion to approve the April 1st minutes as amended second george oh I'm sorry arvinitis I
Groves I Hemingway I Cashew I Moer I abstain Stein I all right so the uh minutes are approved uh
next item on our agenda was to get an update from capital planning uh so I can't I don't know if it was George or Bob somebody sent an email summing up I sent it to you yeah do you want to just kind of talk through it sounds like
we've got um four items one of which doesn't require Right so basically we took three actions yeah and and Bob will correct me when I say something wrong here but uh we approved the zeroturn mower and um we
agreed that the 11,400 is what we would need to b to to plan on spending um we approved the damn project but we don't expect um any expenditures in FY26
because it's the first phase which is the design planning permitting occurs in the summer fall of f of 2025 and it's going to be funded by CPA funds and a state grant now there is
a chance the state grant will not be approved awarded in which case we do have some funds that we might be able to draw from already that were set aside for the dam according to um the member of the Lake Wyola committee
um we could use the 35,000 permitting account that we have and we might come up a little short and we'll have to figure that out but the reality is we don't expect um that there'll be any funding requirements and then the third item
that we voted on was um we voted to repair the grater and not replace it so um that's it it's going to go to Ammeris Welding and Ammeris Welding is going to repair it and it'll be back in operation do we have a dollar amount well the
estimate that was given last year was 16,500 i think that uh we might have to have him check that review that uh see if it still covers the likely expense but that was the estimate when he had it
looked at um in the fall okay oh you said 166 right yeah 166 I think was the number so it might end up being something higher um 166 i'll have to look into that okay and
that was it right that's all we talked about that's it uh projects coming up that you know we I mentioned that uh that Lenny is going to want to be build his one of his trucks he mentioned that to the committee here uh I think it was to this committee but
he mentioned it to either this committee andor the capital planning committee but he intends to do a rebuild on one of his vehicles and that's coming up we all know that the we expect that the next year the parking lot at the school will be uh addressed so that'll be another
pro substantial project that's on the horizon so um and George has reusitated the uh spreadsheet for the capital plan going out five years or more and uh we're working on that we're
meeting tomorrow Thursday right George to just review yeah that's just a review minutes and I haven't done that but we talked about it i emailed it the old version to everybody and I think it's a meeting we're going to have to have you know at some time in the interim year you know before we get rolling next year
and then wasn't there also an emergency request for the fire alarm oh yeah that's right oh that's right and you know that that's something I wanted to discuss here okay what can we can we pause on this actually and because I see
um Chief Burgess just joined us and so um Susie did you have a question about Yeah I can wait we'll come back okay great all right so we'll come come to you when u when we wrap up thanks Chief appreciate you it sounds like you've had a busy night of meetings
i I'm so grateful for your patience thank you i could not leave that one until they finished the last piece that I was supposed to be there for no no no no problem um so just a little bit of context so um we're kind of at the stage in our process where you know we're
looking you know we've we've met with every department head reviewed their proposed budget we're now um taking a sort of big picture view of the budget we have a draft um we can now see the
implications of um the various proposals that have been put forth um we have a significant budget deficit that we're trying to figure out how to um how to address and deal with and it occurred to me that
um because we met with you so early in the pro I think it was back in November um and your proposal for FY26 is probably sort of the most complicated to I think um explain to um
residents and because um it does represent a significant increase in expenses um and uh you know uh for wages um and you had laid out uh in in a lot
of detail back in November the the reason for for that and it had to do with kind of a staffing plan that you um you had uh put in place and we're were or or were proposing and and you had a justification for that and I just
thought it'd be helpful for committee members to just have you walk us through that one more time uh because I think we're getting to that point where we we've got to make uh you know final decisions and um I just think it'd be
helpful to to do that so um if you're okay with that I I I pulled up the um I think the document that you shared with us back in November which was um
and I'm wondering if that would be sort of uh helpful to kind of walk us through or do you want to do this in a different way so let's let's try it uh a little different of a way and then if we need to bring the document back up we can
first of all I am so glad that I am not any one of you um what a job that you're undertaking and I can I I have full respect and appreciation for um what you're trying to to juggle um and you know I I met
with Bob and uh he ex expressed more of information to me in regards to the budget that you're you're all working on and and trying to make sense so I want to try to simplify this in a way that maybe I would speak to just a resident
in town that maybe doesn't have you know um the that doesn't need the the how I'm saving money component and that kind of thing so if I if you'll just um give me grace for a minute and I'll try it this way
so we are there is a new statute a new law in the commonwealth that the police are uh now uh under the discretion and discernment of something called the post committee it's the peace officer standards and training committee they
certify and descertify officers and they set the standard for what our um education needs to be for what our um inservices need to be and things of that nature they decide whether or not we are
certified or not it used to be that there were two kinds ofmies one was what they called a part-time academy where police officers would go intermittently throughout the week and they would complete that academy and they had once
they graduated they were certified and they were able to be police officers as on a part-time basis um depending on the town you worked in you could work full-time you just didn't receive those full-time retirement benefits and things of that nature
there was also the full-time academy so that officers would go to a full-time academy on a regular basis and when they graduated they were fully certified and able to work full-time and receive those full-time benefits um from the municipalities they worked in the post
commission has decided that they don't want to have part-time uhmies any longer they want everyone to be in a full-time academy status and so it's easier for them to um just take all
of the education simplify it mainstream it to that one line and then everyone would have to fulfill the um the requirements of that academy when that happened we lost a lot of part- timerrs
in in the field um I think that we and the statistics I believe are that um we bridged because there was that bridge component where the people that were already part- timerrs were able to br use a bridge academy to bridge to that
mainstream full-time academy i think the statistics are and please don't hold me to this but it's something like 2,000 pe 2,000 um people were bridged in the Commonwealth and there were more than 4,000 previous to that uh that were
through a part-time academy so we lost I believe half or more than half of of part-time police officers we no longer have this wide pool of officers to choose from to come and work
part-time in communities people that wanted to do that that were older just said "I'm just going to retire." And we don't have the ability to put anyone say to anyone "Go to this part-time academy and when you're done
you know we will we will then take you on because it's it's not there." So what we have to say to people is if you're already certified do you want to come and work part-time for our department they're very far and few between now
because most people said no they've retired out they didn't bridge or they're already with another department and a full-time job doing something else so guess what I'm trying to say is the pool isn't there to to choose from mhm
so what are we left with well if we want part-time officers we might have to then send them tomies we would end up paying the $3,200 for the tuition which by the way is
potentially going up it's being fought in um legislation right now uh they want to take 2.8 million away from This is not part that I would tell everybody else cuz it's way but 2.8 8 million they're trying to take away from this program uh that helps municipalities like ours sponsor people with a lower
tuition they're taking that away and then it would so it would be close over $6,000 to um to then sponsor someone and put them through an academy only to say we're putting you through this full-time academy and we've got one day a week for you to work uh people don't want to have
to go through a full-time academy and then only work such a part-time basis so what are we left with um we do have one part-timer who works one shift a week his name's Nate Massie we love him we love him he's wonderful that's all he can give us um and so then we have open
uh pieces to our scheduling component we have open shifts how do we fill those how are we going to be filling when an officer takes a vacation or when I take a vacation or when when people are sick
um you know how are we filling those empty shifts i've spoken to the Belchure Town Barracks the troopers there it is incredibly difficult for them to take on the full responsibility of something like that for our town they have a very
large catchment area and they're not able to always get to our town in a timely fashion um it could take 30 minutes 45 minutes it could be that they say "This one is not a priority for us we're not going to answer it it It
happens so So what do we have me potentially working 80 hours a week when my officers are out in training or out in uh vacation or out sick or something like that it's not sustainable and it's not healthy um or I
can then ask the officers to work those other shifts upon their regular shifts and then have to pay them overtime uh which would be exceptionally higher of what I needed to come to you for uh for
for more money or we can just say "How about uh we we um grandfather in Nate Massie uh cuz he gives us that one shift but really he'd be happy just doing a couple shifts a month." And then we get another full-time officer and then all
of those shifts are covered we don't have to worry about a part-time um few part-time officers which is what we would need to do and then we have only one uniform budget we have one salary we
don't have overtime expenses we don't have the officers or myself working that many shifts uh over that are going to extend them out in a way that is unhealthy or not good for the profession that we are in where we have to stay very vigilant
constantly and we then don't have to worry about trainings one officer can go to a training we get it covered on the other end and they just um take time out in that fashion to to me that seems it
came out length more lengthy than it was in my head but I think that kind of explains where we are at in policing in general i know that other towns are going through the same thing and they are making very similar decisions um I
know that the town of Leverett said hey we might end up having to send somebody to an academy here um they're having you know um difficulty in the same way we are the one way that I have it better than a lot of the small towns is I found
a way to and with all of your help it's not just me to keep retention in our department um the officers I have they're staying they're with me we're in lock step and that's a lot in part of
the the agreement in in their raises and and things like that um and it's also because I brag for a moment um I really have figured out how to appeal to somebody wanting to work in a small town and be flexible for them and put their
families first and um and I'm just not and we put it out there to try and find part-time officers and everyone the only people that we get inquiring about the notice that we have an opening is anyone that
is not certified now there are full-timers out there that are looking to work for departments like mine like ours um there are officers officers out there that are looking to have a more uh friendly
atmosphere um but they are all full-timers and they are not going to come to us and work just a few shifts here and for someone else a few shifts there does that help that helps a lot um I think so so I had
a couple of clarifying questions so one is Oh but before I ask Susie um why don't we go to you and I was going to ask for clarification so I believe that the plan that you put forth for us was a sergeant that's
full-time two full-time officers and a part-time officer and a chief is that everybody that's everybody okay and and the current structure before
implementing this new strategy is is it three part-time so it would go it goes like this i'm full-time uh then we have a sergeant that's full-time i have an officer that's full-time and then we have Nate Massie who gives us whatever
he can which is no more than a shift a week okay and as it stands right now he is in paramedic school because he's also a lieutenant on the Graanby Fire Department um so he's he might be giving us even less as it stands right
now got it okay so um yeah George I was just going to say so what do we So what's proposed then back to what Susie said a chief a sergeant how many part full-timers two so a chief
full-time a sergeant full-time and two full-time officers and then of course we want to keep uh Nate on our roster um but my guess is once we get another full-time officer he might be happy to just do a couple shifts a month
so it sounds like we're adding one full-time officer that's what I'm looking to do George yes so um with all the numbers if we so the as it stands alone what we have right now the officers received a 10% increase in
their salaries so if we just take uh the budget as it stands right now you have to add that 10% on um that's contractual uh then it's raised up substant that 10% there then I'm asking for uh the wages
of another full-time officer um per their contract um for full-time position [Music] in order to fulfill the uh structure and the frankly the request
of the town the town has said we want 7:00 a.m to 11:00 p.m 7 days a week so I'm just trying to fill the shifts that that we need filled and also be able to to do my job i'm a working chief and I'm out there a lot but there are a lot of
administrative duties that are now imposed upon me because of the new statute um and the reform bill uh Bob and then April yeah hi Christian uh hi Bob oh yeah so just just to be
clear like first of all I want to just remind everybody uh and you know this Kristen but the others may not we did have a negotiation to for the new union contract and we uh tried to make because we were told that we we had these issues some of the issues that you're mentioning now that we would increase
the u attractiveness of the package for our officers so we did provide a substantial raise in pay we also provided the rotating uh account that would pay for details in a more timely manner and we did add some other
benefits to their pay structure so that we could retain them so my so I think that was a good faith effort on the part of the town to address some of these issues but the other thing is I think that there's more hours in this budget than there were before get what you're saying so there are more hours being
paid and there are higher rate hours being paid because we're now getting some officers and and that are going to get uh rank and so forth so that's part of the reason why there's an increase in the ask because we're paying for more hours now I understand your point and I
understand challenges that you've described sorry Bob I have a question what did you mean by more hours other words if the total number of hours that we were being paid for people in the department let's just say was 180 hours per week uh last year is it now 200 or
220 i did No it's still 7 a.m to 11:00 p.m 7 days a week yeah is there more overlap in the in between people that are on duty there occasionally would be overlap but there always has been overlap before this is also we're also
trying to cover the hours that the officers are away at training with the new statute we have more training demand uh by the by the Commonwealth so I I guess sort of but not but not substantially
well my position is I really do sympathize with the challenges that you are facing you just describe one right there that the state mandates that you have training we have to pay people to get training we have to pay people to go to the academy we have to pay for a lot of things that are being mandated that
the state is not helping us with but from my point of view on a finance committee I'm looking at the budget and I'm looking at trying to reduce the uh pressure on the budget and so what I asked you the other day which is what I'll ask you and other people is what
can you do with less could you have to have everything that you want or can you get something that you need that would uh require less money from us and that's something I wanted you to try to think of we said that you think about it maybe maybe you'd come up with something but
in any case that's my angle on this you know is I'm look I'm really concerned about our budgetary process and whether we have to go into uh one of these mechanisms whether it be excess levy capacity or override or something in order to make it come together you know
yes and I and I appreciate that um I you know I appreciate that um that is uh your job that's on the shoulders of this committee and I hope you appreciate that what's on my shoulders is making sure
that the town has the um ability to have their own police department take care of them in the manner which they've requested that we do i did look at Bob I promise you uh you asked me to look at things you asked me to try and figure some things out and I did and I feel
that the only way that I could work with less is is by not fulfilling the the empty shifts that we would have and I just want to give a quick if I may I I
don't want to talk forever but I just want to say this one Sunday we we typically aren't having officers on Sundays and I had to make that decision because we have to fill certain shifts that are are are busier or potentially
busier than others there was a Sunday and this has been happening more frequently u people have caught on to the fact that we're not here on Sundays but more than that there was an event that happened in Orange where there was an active shooter
um and they were reaching out to uh communities for assistance and we had no one available to send now they didn't call me at home cuz I would have come in but that's that wasn't their jurisdictional call um so they were they
were working with less every person in the Orange Police Department had to go to this uh event um it ended up being that uh no one was no one was injured and there's a little bit more to the story but um and then they had the new
Salem officer responding to all of the calls in Orange and we sure would have loved to be able to help our neighbors over there um because if something like that knocking on what would ever happen
to us I would I would hope that they would come running to us as well so it's not but it's not just about other communities it's about accidents that have happened on Sundays that we haven't been available for it's it's just about
filling those shifts and being there for the people that want us to to be there for them and so Bob I did look um at everything and I just can't seem to figure out if I'm supposed to fill these shifts and fulfill the requests of the
town i don't know how else to do it i've tried getting part- timerrs they're not coming excellent all right uh Susie then April then George so one um piece that came out of this discussion that I didn't
really understand is that you are the new schedule that you're proposing has one full-time officer replacing two part-time officers and that's the the um that's the only change in staffing and
so um I feel like that's a simple piece i guess I didn't really think about what was at the beginning what we had right now but by saying one full-time officer replaces two part-time officers and then
there's a sergeant and another full-time officer and a chief that brings our department to full coverage you did it way better than me you're you're hired so I think that's that's where I'm getting confused because I
thought you said that the current staffing uh model is is uh a sergeant obviously chief sergeant full-time officer and then one part-time Nate is that is that not right right right but what we have
to remember is is that Nate can't always fulfill that single shift every time we don't have anyone on Sundays and we don't have anyone available for trainings vacations sick days ex etc
yeah so is there a second part-time officer that's on the force right now or No so no we Well we have listed an intermittent officer uh Linda but Linda doesn't do shifts um she is strictly
just um consult and she does details um at this point she was grandfathered in before me in that respect right okay so then I guess that's what's leading to my confusion about like Sus's clarification
here which where it's c can we say that the proposed budget is adding an additional full-time officer to replace two part part-time two two to three part-time officers i mean really it's um
you know as I stated Nate's going to be going to school and he's going to be asking for some leave potentially uh to be able to do that um so it's it's could be it's really I'm working it as three part-time officers those are not three
part-time officers that are currently right actively serving the town it's in in theory what would describe a fully staffed force that's right yeah okay got it all right um I think that helps me uh
also can I just can I say one thing i'm trying to get away from the word force and you use the word department uh it has connotations in it that I I don't like that let's uh So if you'll work with me on that because a lot of people it's a habit for people and it and we're
not by force yeah thank you yes april well a couple of things because I I understand having another full-time officer is also uh will help in reducing the amount of overtime that you would have to pay that that was a piece of it
but it's also the whole concept of your community policing having you know a tight full-time employees I think people are going to know individuals in the town know where there are issues that are you know potentially could could blow up or how to keep things how to
keep the peace really so I I think there's a lot of good thinking in what you're doing thank you and you brought up something that um I I I would be remiss if I didn't say and that is also you uh you just reminded me you didn't bring it up but uh something you said
uniform budget so if I have three part-time officers I have to then allow them the part-time officer and I don't have the contract in front of me but I think it's maybe $450 or something dollars each whereas one full-time
officer then they get a one time maybe it's 600 I can't remember i don't have the contract in front of me but it's something like $600 instead of that 450 time three um so that's something to be said as well i
also don't have to train because part- timerrs still have to have the exact same training as the full-timers so I wouldn't have to train three part-time officers and send them to 120 hours each of inservice every year just sending
one yeah uh George what's post post peace officer standards and training commission if you go to the mass.gov website you can look it up um it is uh that was uh commission was put
into place when uh the Commonwealth was um putting the statute into police reform they wanted the uh Commonwealth police officers to have an oversight commission um and they do they are in
charge of our certifications we have to prove to them we've been throughmies we're trained and then every 3 years after we're certified once every 3 years we have to be reertified uh through a process which um is through
attestations and things like that and when we talk about part- timerrs like you you're saying we're going to replace three part- timerrs with one full-timer it's a little confusing because when we refer to the officers we're talking about who we have in our pool and you
have three part- timerrs in your pool but they don't all work every week right you just have part-time slots and you put put somebody into that slot right George i think we could say it like that i think we could say the shifts uh you know um in the past the reason that I
say part-time officers is because in the past that's what we've utilized is the part-time officers for these empty shifts uh but yeah I mean it could be it could be said said that way and just in terms of trying to wrap my head and eliminate that confusion but the bottom
line is you have coverage from 7:00 a.m to 11:00 p.m that's going to be the same it's just structurally how you manage the pool yes we have no we have no intention of changing those hours unless the town says we would like to change
those hours um you know there has been discussion that um maybe on the weekends we slide down you know to a later time that we are here um but that wouldn't change the amount of hours uh that that
we would have maybe we started a little bit later in the day kind of thing but no I I suffice it to say right now there's no change because that's the town has not asked for that okay thank you Jim yes uh is um Leverage still
doing uh policing in Wendell and has all talk of sharing police duties with other towns Shootsbury with Wendell or Shootsbury with New Salem is that totally been taken off the table hi Jim how you doing um so yes uh Leverit still
um services Wendell and they do it by an alleart um style um so I'm not exactly sure i have not looked at their contract but my understanding is they mostly only respond uh they they don't um and I
might be speaking out of turn please don't take this for you know set in stone but my understanding is is that it is not necessarily pro proactive that they really just respond there have all talks uh uh have all talks gone to the
wayside for combining regionalizing is that what you said yes okay so because Yes because the town did a survey when we had the police study group um and uh in when was that that was 2020 2021
there was a police study group that was formed by the select board and there was a survey that was done that went out to all of Shootsberry and they um majority said we want our own police department um we we want to keep what we have so as
of right now from my understanding is that um we are we are trying to work with what we have i will say this my department in in our most regional area of small time or small
town police departments of our size most regional around us i am the one who has the most retention and the most coverage uh regularly um so
uh there's I feel there's a lot more to that um but we're doing something right here did that answer your question Jim yes I I um I I was sort of aware of the
of the um the the survey that was done some time ago but police regionalization has come up frequently as a possibility of sharing expense and and police officers in our small little region here because we have four towns that could
work quite well together but sad to say that has never worked out for the economic benefit um for all four towns but maybe someday it will well Jim I'll tell you I did reach out to New Salem um they have a part-time chief and they
have um a full-time officer and a part-time officer and the part-time chief is looking to um retire soon he's already retired once he's looking to retire again and I reached out and said you know Shootsbury might be interested
in helping they did a survey and they want to keep their own police department and their own autonomy so I think I think that people are trying towns um like ours like Shootsbury are trying to hold on and I think we're doing a good
job i think we're doing a darn good job here so all right Bob yeah uh Kristen just I I agree you're doing a great job and people I like your officers i like the way the way that your show runs but I want to just go to big picture here
which is what Jim brought up about regionalization it's not about not liking your police department and wanting to dilute it it's about managing the financial impacts of these things like every town is dealing with these things and every town has got got to address the issue that say our school
budgets are going up faster than inflation our uh police budgets are going up faster than inflation a lot of our budgeting process is under a pressure and now with postco I guess what is the world we live in uh there's more regulation there's a lot more wage
uh pressure we just had the personnel committee come and make recommendations for substantial increases in wages for retention we did try to address that in the case of the police department here see I just see that we need to we have to give up some of this idea of autonomy
and be more cooperative in order to handle the financial impacts that were true for the school we've been discussing I've been discussing with the finance director of Pelum and he's been kicking around ideas that he brought up about maybe combining forces on our
schools and to make it more rational and less uh impact on our taxpayers i think that's also true for fire administratively there's no reason why Pelum and Shootsbury or Shootsbury and New Salem couldn't share some administrative costs you talked about the administrative expense that you have
to uh uh withstand uh so we have to work on some solutions to the financial impacts here because this can't go on it's it's going to drive people out of our town ultimately um can I ask a question what is the percentage of the
uh town's budget for the what is the police department's percentage uh out of the town the entire town budget what percentage do we hold yeah I can tell you that um the school is like number one it's twothirds of our close to twothirds of our budget yeah
between the two schools yeah so the percentage of the police budget i mean it's it's small Kristen there's no question about it it's um So the budget is 7790 you're 4% oh 4% are we the smallest or
is there someone smaller than us oh yeah there's a many that are smaller than you i mean department wise sorry George i should have no I know yeah no buyers library um you know the assessor's office is probably small is smaller than
you the your department has a number of staff and staff is where the real cost is in operations right yeah you know and I I serve at the pleasure of the people and uh and the the people decided that this is what
they wanted and you know we've visited this before me the town visited this I think a couple of times i I believe Susie am I correct in that um that they they talked about regionalizing at least
two times before I came here uh and it was always that it that they they weren't interested so um I just want to say that when we got the the survey and the town had this
majority conclusion that they wanted to keep us I think that's our job now to try and make it work and uh figure it out and I'm hopeful that the I'm hopeful that you all and and the residents can see that um what I'm trying to do is
just um give them exactly what they've asked for and unfortunately we are in a season of difficult finances so I did say this uh to April once i believe we are going to get through this i believe
there is light at the end of the tunnel it's when you get to that light who do you want to see on the other side because it is we are going to get there we just need to decide what we want when we get there and who we want to see on the other side so um of course I'm not in your
shoes but that's my Polyiana perspective Susie and if we were to make changes such as regionalizing or sharing administrators the process to change that does not begin with the police
department and that is why we did the police study committee and we met and we considered ideas and we surveyed the town and if it was to happen again if we felt like oh something has changed and we need to do this it doesn't start with
the department it really starts with the town and you have to figure out the mechanism that you feel reaches the town so tonight's discussion really isn't about reaching the town you could hope that something could come up but you
have to have a process to make it happen okay any other questions for Chief Burgess okay i do I do have something that I do need to address please okay um thank goodness Gabe is here uh so this
is this is something unanticipated it's small though um let's start with the great stuff we had we had a body camera system that was antiquated and when I took the office of the police chief was already 5
years old at that time um we I then worked a few more years after that and the cameras became unusable they would they would shut off when they felt like it they would turn on when they felt like it they wouldn't charge they were um of the nature that
it you you could not be reliable with these and um and with that I had to take them off the shelf last year I asked you all for um a $12,000 um line for new body cameras and
I also tried to get some grants now I did get a grant but we were weight listed um and that didn't seem that it was going to be coming through and it didn't when that happened I need to make some adjustments because we need body
cameras the officers were begging me for the body cameras um people were the residents were saying "Why don't you have these anymore?" And it and it's just good practice these days in the day we are in to have body camera so I called up two different companies axon
was the first one i said "I have $12,000 not $12,000 in a penny what can you give me?" They said "To be honest not much we We'll write you up a quote." Said "Okay." So I called WatchGuard which is the company that we used previous and that we had the cameras through previous
they were much more willing to work with me after I explained my plight and that we are from a very small town and our budget is very small and I just met with um Bob Groves and and he told me even more information that scared me about
the finances um then I they were able to give me multiple discounts we went from close to $40,000 down to that $12,000 number now I'm going to tell you what I received in that $12,000 five body
cameras five licenses um I uh docs to download the information a full redaction system a redaction system is huge because then I with the assistance of
potentially AI I can go in take out um blur faces of minors i'm I'm able to take out audio of things that certain people can't hear that are under statute and exemption rules and and that's and they gave that to me they also gave us
the storage cloud all for $12,000 in 2 years I get all new batteries for the cameras and in 5 years I will get all brand new cameras again and any updates that are necessary for the storage unit
uh or storage cloud um so that's the best news um there's a $3,000 um fee associated yearly with that for like a subscription just to give it plain and simple um and I was
not expecting that at all um and I do need to add that uh to uh a a um to a line so we can either add it might I thought the best way to to do it would
be to add it to operating um so it just comes out of operating every year um so it did get put I did get written down somewhere i'm not sure if you had received that information that that had
happened but to me this is the best news um I I the cost of everything again was close to four $40,000 and I got them down to 12,000 with a 3,000 subscription fee which is also discounted because we're a small
town so so there's that all right so just a couple of clarifying questions here so the the the cost of for the hardware itself which was $12,000 that's equivalent to the amount
that was authorized correct one or two town meetings ago right last year I think yep um so um so there's no added needed funds for the capital okay so what
what's new is the subscription the annual subscription fee right okay so I guess one question I have for you is is the um is the subscription
um a a a requirement to actually utilize the body cameras like is it or is are they are you paying for some added uh No it's Yeah it's a requirement aj yep all right so they're useless without
the subscription the That's right and it also then benefits us in the way that we're locked in and we get new cameras after 5 years these cameras don't last more than 5 years really i mean they get a lot of use out of them we get brand new cameras and we just keep rolling as
long as we want to keep that subscription fee that I was told and I and I believe I have it in writing stays at that number so there so whatever license you have to sign or contract you have to sign indicates is it is it is it a um is it
subject to revision each each year or you're it's No we're locked in we're locked in for what period of time are we locked in do you do you happen to know or for the five years um and then we can make that decision after the five years they'll reach out to us probably a year
and a half two years before and we can start discussing they give us plenty of time um to decide if we want to continue with them at that fiveyear mark um okay any other questions from the fincom
about this okay all right um so yeah we we'll we'll discuss like what what we think is the best line to allocate you know it sounds like police there's only one line there's operating expense is really the only option police
department operating not going to add new new one um okay got it all right so we will um we'll update our our budget to to reflect that i just want to thank you all for bringing me back in for
another opportunity to try and clarify i hope I did and I did not um get you more confused i hope you have some good clarification and I appreciate you all thank you appreciate it am I allowed to leave now yes you're allowed to leave you're also welcome to stay but you're
you're allowed to leave i think I think I'll just go thank you all thank you okay thank you um hi Gabe hi is that Haley next to you how you doing um so uh thanks for joining us
guys uh um and Haley thanks for for joining your your first Sheets FinCom meeting thank you for having me yeah it's an interesting time to to to plug in because we're we're sort of uh nearing the end of our kind of annual
budget process and uh we've done a couple things tonight one was just um get an update on the a comparatively small number of capital requests that were submitted this year
um compared to other fiscal years um and actually we were doing that discussion and then um the chief joined in i had asked her to join in our meeting because um I thought it'd be helpful to have her walk us through her proposed budget
again because it it does represent some significant changes so um I think the plan for the the rest of tonight is we're going to just finish up this capital planning discussion and then I think we'll pull up the the budget um
and uh take a look at that and Gabe we might have a couple questions for you um yeah and unfortunately I'm going to join Kristen in asking for more money okay all right all right so you've primed us we'll get We'll get there in a in a few
minutes um so it is capital articles so I don't know AJ if you want to include it in your capital article discussion yeah yeah let me let me do this um Susie had a question that I asked her to hold when the chief came on so let me get to
her question um and then Gabe is the new request the the fire alarm issue or No unfortunately no the the select they just added too okay got it all right so we'll get there uh Susie um in choosing
to repair the greater I'd like to know if it's been um researched if the program with the state to lease um to buy using chapter 90 money if that program is still going to be available
in the near future so I went online and I looked up chapter 70 documents from the state do I think I found it there's pretty comprehensive guide and it documents the lease program
and it documents all the equipment that are eligible which is a very broad range and I honestly the next time the highway asks for anything we need to look at that as an option and see if that really works you know there's there's always
going to be the tension between repairing the roads buying equipment how much can we really take from chapter 90 and still keep the roads and that's really a judgment call for David david's going to have to tell us
but um from what I could see on the website that has been around and is going to remain that way it's fully documented and any one of us if you do a search you would be able to find the document when Bob and I were at the capital um what was it called the
capital planning seminar by the Mass Municipal Association I asked that question about that and she said "Oh yeah that's a real program it's been around and towns do use it so it's not it's not a flyby it's not a one-off and it's not related to the extra funding to
chapter 90 it is a part of the chapter 90." So George is c can you clarify one thing for me because I was I was trying to wrap my head around this so um similar to chapter 70 we we the state has some kind of formula that calculates
a chapter 90 based on miles okay um and that uh that so is that an amount that's um awarded to the town or I thought the way you or somebody else was describing
it is that it's it was sounded almost like it's an amount of funds that's available for us to kind of draw down but there may be years in which we are for for some set of reasons we're not drawing down that's Gabe gabe can give us the details okay Gabe could you give
us a little just I sure you can and AJ your recap was right on so they award us a certain amount every year and I can tell you that this year we've been awarded $234,17827 so if we choose not to spend that all in this year say you don't have a road
project or you don't have one that money stays with you and it moves into next year and then next year's money can be added to it so we would have to find out from Gail what is left right now in the chapter 90 that hasn't been tapped
because that's a good thing to know and I haven't looked it up um for the payment if you decide to do buying the piece of equipment through their payment system their lease system and the payment is $80,000 a year you would have
150,000 for road work plus what you had left over from last year and I believe Gail has it george and I talked about it slightly very lightly before each year she has identified in the special funds report I think it is how much is in
there right now um and as far as I know from Dave he had no resurfacing plans but you can call him back in and talk to him about it if you want to investigate this more but you I hope I answered your question yeah you did so I'm I'm I'm
assuming that like um like departmental wages is not is not an expense that can be utilized not anymore it used to be you used to be able to charge wages against chapter 90 what about things like materials like uh Yes you used to
be able to charge uh machinery usage like if you used a town owned piece of equipment you could charge so much per equipment per hour that you ran it but that has kind of gone away um yeah
okay uh George um I I What was I going to say i'm typing the minutes here and I forgot I was going to say um uh um um um it's going to come back to me real quick can I say before you while you're thinking about it I was going to Oh actually I've got it historically we we've been
spending all our chapter 90 money we don't have balances from out years maybe we have a small one from last year i'm not sure but we have been spending it on road work we haven't had a paving project this year at all uh I don't know where the money's been going but we haven't had a paving project in town
maybe maybe u maybe there's some other related costs like the catch patients i don't know if that's applicable that's something but uh there what we have to do more research on to understand what the parameters of that law are because it'd
be good to know uh however we have been spending it just on road work on paving basically historically I think yeah so right um I I should have saved that document i should have stored it on my computer unfortunately I didn't so I'm
looking at the expense report and and what Bob said is is confirmed the 23 number was $97,000 we spent it all the 24 number was 132,000 we spent it all the 25 allocation was another was 132
again we've spent 50 of it so we currently have 82,000 available for the next four months call it um actually the fair the fair share grant is on there too George do you see it
i Yeah yes and I think that's the last bump we just got yep 84,000 so at this moment we have 166,000 167,000 right right you're right the fair share is it's farther down
and that gets carried over to next fiscal year if we don't whatever amount we don't spend yes yes but does that does that mean that next year whatever balance we've carried over gets factored into how what they award us or it's the
formula is strictly just mileage yeah population so we don't lose no rolls over um last question about this that I had was is equipment repairs like an eligible
expense bill okay maintenance and repairs do not count it's purchases okay so that that wouldn't help us with the greater repair okay got it i'm going to I'm going to get that document distributed all right would a new plow truck be um
deductible uh not deduct yeah uh yeah equipment yeah it was a extensive list not a plow itself but the truck that the truck itself the truck itself yes so the next time we need a new pickup truck I mean really anything you do need to look
at this and you know Dave should think about that and maybe if he can let some of these funds build up seems to be happening this year well you know now that the weather's
better we'll see but you know he might be drawing those down quickly and and Bob I think you gave the number of 16,600 was the estimate he shared with me that he got last fall yeah yes i expect he's going
to have to ask him to revisit it maybe talk to Darren and see if there's any change in that so that we know the number that's going to work for him got it but at least for tonight we can But it's something in that ballpark that number okay yeah that's what I got in the minutes all right Susie i want Did
um anybody check this decision with Dave to repair and not um lease not lease dave wanted us to buy him a new one yeah he asked us to buy him a new one and we asked him about the chapter 90 and he didn't really have a
definitive answer but he was comfortable with it i floated the idea that you know if he took it from chapter 90 and he was going to come up a little short we could possibly put that aside somewhere else to help fill that gap because that would be cheaper than borrowing for a 300
$400,000 piece of equipment but we had a we had a good debate in the committee there was five people there and two people voted for it and three people did not let me let me just say Susie to answer your question that when Dave first presented this request to capital
planning the option of repair was one of the options he presented to us and he gave us that number the estimate so that was one of the options the other option was for a Caterpillar a John Deere and then lease purchase and lease at one he never uh came up with a price for a used
one which is one of the things that I asked him to do but he didn't find one there was none out there or whatever he didn't come up with one as an option but the other options were presented to us by Dave so and I did discuss this with
Dave extensively so uh you know so uh so so let me read what he did what he said we are looking to replace our 40-year-old grater that is operating on borrowed time and it is the in disrepair because we feel that to continue to sink
more money into this machine would be money better spent on one that can be used for many more years we have been running the grater as used as a used one since 1998 so we bought it used in 1998 estimated repairs are 156
well yeah so yeah so u just just to review it we did vote on this Susie at capital planning we made a recommendation to repair the machine i'm just going to say that he is new at his department we get to go with this answer for now it wouldn't surprise me
if we're back next year looking to put a new grader on the road since half of our roads are dirt but he'll figure that out well it was also noted by the way that there's logging operations going on in our town and those roads are going to need extra service but the person who
pointed that out still voted no and still voted to have it repaired so you know whatever it's that's how the system works how played out okay so and and I we it's we may be in a position an even better position next year because we'll
have this um we'll have built up this chapter 90 um balance possibly which which might mean that there's a better chance that it'll cover the purchase of a new piece of equipment if that's the
route they go and not this leasing option or whatever but okay got it all right so so fair share money has uh has really jumped um chapter 90 money um in the last year and it's there's some big
shifts as to what we were getting you know three or four years ago as to what we're getting now and it's and it's coming from fair share yeah okay so that should continue reliably without the government the
federal government taking it away or something like that all right so does somebody want to fill us in on the fire I meant the um the new capital uh uh item which was the the the
alarm system um I could talk about it yeah bob and you guys voted on right we uh We got an email I think from from Gabe about this there was an at inspection uh the town hall's fire system and I guess the
elevator was calling uh was was acting bizarre and uh the system wasn't functioning as it was designed so this contractor was brought in he said in order to make it safe and to make it up to code uh he recommended that certain amount of work be done in part of town
hall the part of the town hall I think that includes the elevator building and this estimate was for what is it like 800 bucks we've have we've had one bid so far and it was 8,648 9 cents my I
think that everybody agreed on the capital planning committee that this was a necessary uh job to do but my question is is how it should be funded whether this should be funded with a c as a capital project or not or whether this should be funded through some other
mechanism here through this committee so that seems to me to be the the principal thing for us to decide how not to whether or not to do it maybe to get some more bids the building committee is going to do that but uh but to find out you know or to determine how it should
be paid for is it is it a strict repair or is it like an upgrade or what what it's an upgrade i call it an upgrade it's a replacement the way it's working it's replacing the panel okay the electrical panel in the elevator it's replacing the panel got it and we just
paid $44 for a trip out here to look at the silly thing so yeah and it's been approved yeah and the committee has approved it i guess my inclination Bob is to I I would prefer to treat it as a as a
capital expense and and and not have it add to our operating budget uh this year and it sounds like that's can be justified because it is a new piece of equipment right it's a new panel that
would be my instinct uh George it it qualifies as a cap i mean generally speaking capital planning is $10,000 or higher but it's a onetime purchase it's not something you want to put in the operating budget because it's a onetime purchase no I I wouldn't recommend that but I just wonder whether we should do a
transfer uh for free cash or an article floor for a fin transfer it's a building project building project right a free cash transfer yeah right because our fin reserve is getting low yeah and
the other thing I wanted to say the reason I had my hand up was um the person from the buildings committee um McGuana I'm sorry I forget his first name frank frank frank um said he was definitely going to get two more bids he's got one bid for the8600 something
and he is definitely going to get two more bids so the most it's going to cost is this $8,600 got it okay 8648 got it that's easy so can we um pay for that out of the building repairs funds
can I answer that yes please so the select board asked the same question today of the building committee um of Frank who is the chair of the building committee and he said they have earmarked most of their money for some
electrical upgrades and they don't have it [Music] okay do you know what number they're working off of because remember how last year there was
30,000 written different places so how much are they earmarking i'm not sure how much they're earmarking for it they have a whole bunch of projects that they're doing Susie we could probably ask them to send They have this big huge chart they're working on yep so um that
was the answer we got today okay all right i talked to Frank today at the at the uh social and I made him aware that we had eliminated that line that he was he appeared before us to defend so
that he understood what we did and he was talking to his colleagues i guess Stephen uh is his name and uh he may he said he was going to come back to see us and just look at the budget told him if it's okay with you all I would share a budget draft with him and so he could
see what I was talking about is that all right to do absolutely yeah okay so yeah so we I expect that we'll see him back here and then he can clarify what he has in the fund and but I think I don't know what when we address this issue of
funding this repair i don't know if it's in a timely way for it to wait the town meeting uh Gabe is that going to work i I actually have a suggestion for you and and that's that I write the article and then you remove it so the article is
there and then when you and the select board go through to vote on whether you're supporting an article or not you can remove it sounds good and then it's there for a reminder there in I don't know when you're going to review this um but say you say say you do your review
in May about the middle of May if you've changed your mind about it you remove it sounds good okay Susie so I'm confused if if this panel needs to be replaced before FY26 begins before that town
meeting it can make it to your end they say yeah okay all right it just means it keeps breaking down hopefully not more $440 bills all right when the last time somebody
used that elevator I wonder janette used it today people use it to get upstairs oh it's novel um all right this is what our I think our capital funding
uh looks like right now so I've added correct me if I'm wrong cap capital planning people 11,400 8,6448 and 16,600 for uh greater highway
department greater repairs and I'm assuming all of those get funded from free cash reserves um I think what we should Yeah go ahead i would just say um we should put them
down here and we can put them in the free cash column now but once we get everything on this sheet because I think we might want to add a budget item or two at the bottom then we can go to the lower part and look at what our balances look like and decide if maybe we want to rate any of the other accounts right
to to to not take income I'm sorry free cash too low yeah yeah because we're we're at 10% right now with with what's in here um okay gabe you want to tell us about um your your new your news sure
hold on a sec i had to unmute myself a different way um I'm going to lower my hand so today Rita asked me to bring forward to you folks um they would like to put an article on the warrant the select
board would for a $10,000 for repairing downstairs town hall for doing some sound proofing um and some work in that area because it is our only meeting place in town and it echoes really badly and people can't
hear people talking on the meetings and So we did look in when I first started here they had me look into the cost of putting the soundboard up in that room and we were going to have to clean up that room maybe buy some cabinetry to
put all that yoga mat stuff in and everything um so they would like an article for $10,000 for the downstairs repair out of free cash um that's one this is in the big meeting meeting room yeah this is the big
meeting room downstairs so and then the second thing um is the Lake Wyola i don't know the fancy name for the wake lake Wyola people that have
it's a it's a board um Jennifer Wallace is on it and right now we're applying for all kinds of grants grants to fix the roads around the lake culverts different things so we have a $79,000 grant application into um something
called rural development it's a rural program and the success of getting the grant is based on a match so we're looking for a match and Jennifer told us tonight that the Lake Wyola Association is going to meet
this week and see if they will vote to pay half of the match so the match is about $8,000 so if the Lake Wyola Association is willing to pay $4,000 our grant match would be $4,000 and so we're looking to write an
article for the grant match now I'm not sure we can wait and write it after we know whether Wyola has voted it or not but the grant match would be $8,000 if they don't vote it so we're asking to take that out of free
cash and um or it would be 4,000 if they pay half of the grant match so it's a $80,000 grant and hopefully the town would only be 4,000 into it that's a lot of uh
I'm sorry how big was the grant 80 the grant is 80 wow and and we're only on the hook for the the 4,000 if the grant is awarded I'm assuming right correct so if you do an article for it and the grants not awarded you don't spend the
money you resend the article and it comes back to your free cash okay so yeah um I'm not sure why we wouldn't do this right and that's that's quite a bit of money it's a no-brainer yeah yeah so Gabe would you recommend then that we
write the article for eight and then modify it if if I would I would and then modify it after they vote it okay so you can we can modify it up to the point of when we post the warrant that's why I'm suggesting we go ahead and write these
articles and remove them i do have a a question for you we don't have a copy of this sheet AJ I don't think so do you do you guys write the does the TA write the articles or do you write the articles i'm used to writing the
articles no Becky always did it's always Yeah we've never done it i don't want to assume anything so Haley and I will write the articles all right uh so I'm just putting it in
Lake Wyola grant matching funds okay so can you send this to us please AJ yep okay appreciate it have the Is this on our docs on our This is on our our Google Drive okay if it's on then we can
probably just go on there i'll send you a link just just so you don't have to waste time looking for uh as soon as our meeting wraps up yeah all right uh I have one question i'm having my hand go ahead George yeah I
just want to ask could you just iterate briefly what would these funds be used for again so there is some road work where there is wash out around the lake and some culverts that need to be dealt with so it it's basically um helping us
fix some areas of the around the lake where there's wash out from water i do have she did write Jennifer Wallace did write something up on it um and I
can send that to you guys to read because I've applied for the grant i already put in this the interest and now we need to get more detailed um so we have told the state we're interested so I can send you Jennifer's email
explaining it a little more no that's good i think I just wanted a general description for the minutes yeah the grant is for roads and culverts um that have water damage or and that the lake definitely has some
issues with their roads around it i don't think it's private roads that we're dealing with i think it's public roads okay Susie yep that's the one I wanted to make sure you were adding on all right that was 10,000 right yeah yeah
we have one two three four what is the likelihood that this grant will actually come through for us pretty good which screen are we talking about now the storm water grant for the 80,000 mhm
okay all right so I think that looks like we've got a complete picture of proposed capital items for this year's town meeting right i'm not missing anything okay all right um so
uh should we go to the budget now let's do that so are we are we not going to talk about the um because on the agenda you had the um um regional school update but there's nothing update right uh just really
briefly I can tell you that um the Ammerst Town Council met yesterday and unanimously voted to let me get the wording right to refer their the the budget that
um the regional school committee approved which is the one we talked about at our last meeting applies modified statutory rate but does require Amoris to go to 4.81% so the the town
council I think unanimously uh voted to refer that to finance committee which then has to report back to them by April 28th i think there's it's looking like there's strong support
in Ammerst to um to approve that that budget April 28 you said yes and I think by I think their process requires them to have a budget hearing um I think on the 28th then um so I think they would
be in place they would be ready to make a formal approval presumably the meeting after that um so I think early May I think before I think in other words I think before our town our town met town meeting we will we will know if Ammerst
has approved the budget so I think uh it's looking based on I think feedback that Bob has shared with us from from Pelum i think this is looking like we've got we know what the budget
for the region is going to be well yeah George so I had a little conversation and Bob and Bob maybe you did too with with John Tricky john Tricky's concern is that there's not going to be support in this town um
there's a lot of scuttlebutt in Ammerst about the cost of the per pupil cost in Ammerst and how it um it's so much higher than other communities the communities that were referenced in what John had sent us was Long Meadow and Northampton but
those were the full school systems with the elementary schools not just the regional schools so it's not an applesto apples comparison as everyone knows your pre-approval costs at elementary schools are much lower but that's the talk going around and you know it is a large budget
in Pelum so I think you know John supports it john is offered how he's going to pay for it but I'm not sure John is confident that it's actually going to pass in his town yeah just to kind of add on to that a little bit my question my question is I think the
process requires three towns to approve this budget is that true yes so if Pelum were not to approve it it wouldn't necessarily kill it because he does anticipate as he said it there'll be a lively discussion about it town meeting
you're correct and I did you know Lynn I I I had a conversation with Rita and Lynn Griezmer last week and Lynn had some information from Leverett that they that their finance committee was going
to support the um the budget proposal so you know short lever voters could could could vote it down at their town meeting but I think it says a lot that the two towns that were most
significantly impacted by this latest proposal Pelum and Leverett are that that budget is getting endorsed by their finance committees and and so you know I would hope that would be pretty
persuasive to to residents that it's it's it's you know it's in everyone's interest to to support the budget but yeah you're right in in in it will require three out of four towns to to approve i don't know that there's any
other uh regional school news uh if anybody has all right okay so it's progress for sure um all right so this is our uh current budget and I think George do you want to
alert us to any I think you made a couple of updates that that were There's two updates were helpful okay there's two updates we um we changed the county retirement and Susie what's the other one um at the bottom actually they're documented at
the very bottom okay so the last time we met um if you go right to the very um last time we met our our deficit was two 254889 and then there's two decreases how did that happen
uh Gabe got back to me about the transportation from Ammerst and they lowered the number we had in there by 10,000 and then Susie uh found out that the 260 is what the uh retirement board is going to be charging us next year okay great so those are the changes and
then all the other changes were all formatting changes um the things that we probably should talk about are in yellow on the notes column um the first one is the assessors now I know we increased it by we increased their line to 35,000 for
the administrative assessor is that enough or not i we don't know we're probably going to find out in a couple weeks that it's too low and then the other one I highlighted was the certification if we if we outsource this we won't have to pay certification but
if we hire somebody they might request that we pay their certificate um so I highlighted those two columns those two rows we'll have some clarity in a couple weeks about this or well I'm not sure
when i mean when do we have to have the budget done I guess is the question so I think that's a good question uh-huh gabe so the news is not good it does not look
like regional resource will take us on they are maxed out with all the towns they have and they are about $3,000 a month so that that's quite a hike so we are in the position where we're going to have to look for someone um the
personnel board is doing the job description at their next meeting i think it's on a Thursday night so this is definitely a question mark okay what was the name of the organization again regional resource david Burgess asked them and they don't
think they can they can take us on they're stretched too thin and they're the only If we find somebody and we tell that person to go apply and work for them honestly I think 3,000 a month is a good deal it is a good deal
they pay That's what's what's happening is they're grabbing up all the retiring assessors and so and paying them 70 bucks an hour so we're not willing to do that you know we don't offer enough money for an assessor and our job is not
full-time so their people will work a full-time job and have two or three towns that they take care of um I think they'd talk to you if you could find them a body yeah have you ever considered a new career no comment
somebody asked me the question i think that was my answer too is that the only sort of outfit that would make sense for outsourcing this is there is there another option or That's the only one I know of um Regional
Resource does on the eastern on the east side of the state as well so they're all over the place and Harold the guy that owns the company is retiring and the uh the vice is taking it over so I don't
know i really don't know okay April I was just wondering if you had any news from some of the other possible sources for an uh an assessor that we talked about you know approaching some of the part-time people in the area yep so the part-time person
we were thinking about has been hired by another town and people are snapping them up faster than you can say spit um and I have a call into another person and I have not
had a call back that's not good okay would we be able to I'm I'm brainstorming right now can you have people working in other capacities within town
part-time hire that person full-time and ask them to do this job as well i'm thinking the treasurer i know it's a long shot it's a long shot the treasurer do it yeah because he's a smart guy he hardwork you know how many towns he works for yeah I know you mentioned it
before i'm just Where are we going to find these people well I do I do think um I have a asked Brennan to consider learning some of this job that Leslie does
um some of this the lowhanging fruit so she can do some of the other stuff and so it relieves the pressure on her that she's experiencing yes he said he's willing but he still needs to pay attention to his first job first
so we are trying to think out of the box here um because you only have eight weeks before July 1 kind of yeah nine weeks um no a little longer because April I'm thinking April's over it's not
but it's going to go by so it's going to go by so fast um I don't know you may have to train somebody from scratch oh god all right so I don't know if 35,000 is enough or not but that's our placeholder
right now good i I think to to answer somebody's earlier question in terms of timing this is what we had discussed uh when we revised our schedule when we moved we postponed town
meeting is that we would have a final budget vote on uh uh within the fincom on May 6th we would attend the select board meeting on May 13th and um
vote um to uh on warrant articles um we we would have a public information session i think we had said May 29th which is Thursday um I'm
actually was going to ask you guys I actually have a turns out I have a conflict that night so I was gonna suggest Wednesday May 28th or Tuesday May 27th oh folks would be okay with that so one of those nights um and then town meeting
on on May 31st for the minutes um what was the first part you said we need we need to vote on the budget the finance committee on May 6th may 6th okay got it and then the select board on May 17 okay 13 13 may 13th yeah
um does that does that am I getting making the right assumptions about the timing and how many weeks the the warrant has to be all that all those rules that I can't quite remember does that sound right yeah um
and Gabe do you know if that's the date May 13th that the select board had was was planning on reviewing and voting on um so tonight was the 8th the
22 and then we have the 6th no they would have to schedule an extra meeting i don't see why they wouldn't schedule an extra meeting they're willing to go weekly if they need to and I think they have to do it by then because your
meeting's the 31st you need 14 days you're cutting it kind of tight i mean I I guess in in theory we they if they did it on May 6th that would work we could we could bump we could bump up our
deadline and say that we've got a vote internally um what would that be the 29th of April i like that better because then it gives Donna McNickl two weeks to review the warrant for legal reasons
uhhuh do FinCom members think that that sounds right i mean that that that would that's a sufficient amount of time for us to that's three weeks from tonight how many times were we meeting before then well we ought to discuss
that right i mean I think we had every night every Tuesday yeah in theory we could uh um that would be the 15th the 22nd and then the
29th um we can always can one if we're done sooner yeah i guess the question though is is there um does anybody have any concern about whether we would be be
able to to complete our process to me that's three weeks sounds right but the longer we leave it open the more people are going to come with us with requests we should end it tonight
right okay I guess the yeah you know I I guess the the the only concern I have is are these like last couple of items that are still in yellow here and whether we're going to have sufficient information um to you know to to to resolve those
but yeah all right so let's plan on that Gabe I think we're you know um well I I we'll we'll plan on uh finalizing the budget and voting on it April 29th
The select board can vote on the warrant articles on May 6th we'll attend to answer any questions and represent our re recommendations and then we'll do a public info session on May 28th or or May 27th and then we have town meeting
on May 31st uh Susie and I still would like to have somewhere fitted in here a time to talk to all the departments so they understand what we've constructed and how to support
each other as we bring it forward i don't think they have to hear that before we do our final budget vote um but I I do think we need to talk to them um that's what I'm saying yeah maybe we
could do that on May 13th or May 20th one of one of those uh yeah yeah May 13th would be good okay um I'm going to put that on the calendar you said May 13
okay uh All right so I guess going back to the budget should we go to the next um well before you before you scroll so we have new information and that is we're going to have to hire an administrative assessor which to me
means we have to on line 29 insert $1,000 [Music] yep all right Susie we also have to consider the request from the police department for 3,000 in operating
yes so keep going yeah George I feel like that's one where we should probably add a note too right uh yeah uh the police department yes all right so that's 20 so this would go to
23,000 that right yep i'm changing mine to 23,000 in Oh shoot shoot yep um and what are you gonna write for note i was gonna say a new expense body camera body cameras it's Oh yeah body cam new new body camera
license or subscription subscription you got We want to keep it fairly tur you're really eating up the line happy with this okay i got Well some of these lines I can um I can you can see on line 104 I word wrapped so I'm not too
worried about Okay but I think that's probably adequate yeah okay um all right so let me just see if I missed any other tree warden is the next one I think oh yeah we get anywhere with that
i I guess I'll report back that I was going to talk Dave about that but I haven't been able to meet with him between the weather and people being out sick in this department whatever i just haven't had a chance to confound with them i'm I'm going to work on that and try to get get back to the committee um
I'm assuming I'll be able to meet him this week okay so that's still open and then the police chief yeah I think that's still open i think that's open i think so yes yes it is i asked her this morning although she was in a meeting with the select board
before she came here so wasn't negotiation no okay they are they are reviewing a new contract this Friday and then they're meeting again with her next week sometime that hasn't been established okay okay so it sounds a
week or two away yeah um from now are they at all interested in meeting with the the peop the committee that did the initial negotiations or is is that off the table as far as you know as far as I know that's off the table all right
Susie when the negotiation committee met there was a discussion of the uh possibility of funding some of the
police salary from a health insurance option um I I I don't really know who's going to get to make decisions on this particular contract but I guess I feel
since that time um that I would prefer to have all of the salary line all of the salary on the police chief's salary line um because I I I feel it's more transparent and
um the option of being able to um use an an offer of in place of a health insurance um which is something like Melissa knows from her workspace and and Gabe knows from other towns i just feel we're not
ready to do something like that so I would say whatever that line ends up um we have a plan to use cash reserves to ramp on the co in cost increases in the
police salaries so um but I don't So we're using 90,000 as a placeholder but I want to be clear that I think um I'm not advocating to use the health insurance option and Gabe can speak to that because she was part of that
negotiation and knows about it yep i I really do agree with um Susie we should put the placeholder should be 95 and you should take five out of the health insurance and reduce that by five
that's the best way to balance it if the negotiations had been left in the hands of the negotiating team that's what I would have recommended for clarity sake just like Susie is saying um but um it's really up to you guys if
this go the place marker is 90 I think you're safer with 95 and then it's always easier to drop it but I would take that five out of health insurance because we have a placeholder for health insurance for
her i can't say this publicly anyway you need you you you would it would be comfortable to take it out of health insurance let me just say that okay okay that sounds good so line 101
becomes 95,000 and then line I'm go scrolling down make sure we're in sync aj line 211 goes down to 619 may I speak
yeah just one second Bob uh so six all right does that look right George yeah um okay yeah we'll check well actually 7793662 on line 223 77 Oops I can't get to mine
7793662 that's what I have okay yep we're in sync okay cool bob just want to say I agree with uh what I think Susie said at the first which is that it shouldn't be coming out of health insurance if it's something that's approved it should be her salary that's it uh the idea that it would come out of
health insurance I presume is because she uses her husband's health care and not is not benefited from the town but the way healthcare works you know is really not that way at all i mean if I'm single I get a certain benefit and if you're married and have a family plan you get a different benefit that doesn't
we don't adjust my salary i think that we have a kind of a system where we benefit people who need it and we benefit what they need if they are covered by somebody else I don't think that anybody else gets a bonus for that do they i don't so this is kind of
untransparent you know I don't know how how our salary will be determined it certainly won't be determined by us uh I don't see we have any role in that but uh uh I don't think that I think her salary is her salary whatever they decide to agree on as a contract i I do
respect that Bob but it's becoming more and more prevalent athl the town of Athl has to pay out for people who don't take health insurance through them um New Salem is doing it it we don't offer attractive packages anymore when hiring
people it used to be you worked for a town you had great health insurance you had great vacation benefits it has become a problem in and then if somebody has a family plan say we have a slot for someone the town cost of a family plan
is $18,000 so to negotiate and letting them have a portion of what they're not taking is now in today's light seen as fair so if you were to give somebody
$5,000 and you're not paying out $18,000 you're saving $13,000 but you have to have a stipulation in the contract that if they take the town health insurance they lose that amount of money that was my
question okay so that's actually that would that would be there would be language in the contract that um includes that contingency yeah correct do we do we have any other positions that we could apply that to any of your contracted positions so MGL says you can
contract treasurers highway bosses fire chiefs police chiefs and town administrators and accountants oh so if this our legal attorney does not like
contracts so she allows she recommends contracts for police chief fire chief and um highway and town administration nobody else the treasurer doesn't have a contract that's a good thing the accountant doesn't have a contract
that's a good thing um so you have four positions right now that go out to negotiation and are not under the personnel policy they can negotiate what they want to negotiate for those positions just like any corporate person
being hired in a corporate high-end position negotiates their salary their benefit package and all of that that is becoming common practice it's unfortunate Bob because it's not the way we're used to it um but I think like
Susie said originally that's off the table right at the moment i can tell you that that is off the table but you're going to pay more in salary right well let me I just my point is I think you just might have made it but if we just provide this uh deal to the police chief
that means everybody else who's under contract is going to be eligible for the same deal so it's going to cost us money because we be paying people a stipen for not uh taking our insurance or having not having a family plan and you know I I don't think that's advantageous for
our finances and I don't think it's fair because let's face it insurance if you're a single person like me and you pay for insurance or my brother and we lived with his mother he couldn't cover her in a family plan but uh you know it's just the way that the thing is set up is that you get a benefit and if you
don't take it that's because you already have it from some other source that Bob at least if we were contemplating this for a new hire then this this actually becomes an opportunity to save some
money right um so I think your point is that um if this if this was an option for an exist like If if some existing uh employee um took in took yeah saw this
as an opportunity for them then um they we're not we're not paying their their insurance we wouldn't be saving but if this was something that we offered an incoming employee this would be an opportunity for us to potentially save about $10,000 yes but you have to write
it into the contract that if they do end up taking it they lose that portion that you're paying them yeah that's the key okay Susie and uh Oh and the school um employees are not in that pool of people Gabe that you
mentioned no they would have to negotiate that in their contract and that is what unions are doing nathol is unionized and they have negotiated that insurance thing in their contract so teachers would have to do
the same thing and police officers also have a contract all right um briefly make a point and I'll be done yeah please i just want to say I see the this these issues which have been raised over and over in the budgeting process about retention and
about giving people more i see it just putting a lot of stress on our taxpayers i think at some point we in our budgeting process have more or less accepted what the department heads have asked for almost every time we've never pushed back and said no this is we're
only going to we only can allow you a certain percentage increase in your budget because of our policy uh and we're trying to be responsible to our taxpayers we just continue to approve whatever the ask is and I I I think that's not a good way to manage this
process i think we should say with this is our target we don't want to be in the whole 340 we can't make up the difference with Cass we don't want to use the excess levy capacity or certainly we don't want to have an override and we have to ask people to
trim their sales so when are we going to do that okay so one other if we're back to the budget yeah yeah go ahead uh line 166 is the only other thing I had um open on this
document yeah we have a note for it and I'm not sure that you know that's the appropriate note minimal activity no just take note out it's we're not we don't have to do um a solution right now
we're just doing the mitigation um permitting and that's mentioned yeah um is this is this one line 166 is this something we could remove from our budget al together or is it possible
that this comes back in some future year well we can't remove it because there's amounts in it um we could I suppose put those amounts on combine them in the line above but you know it's probably different accounts on the uh the accounts chart of account the
town's chart of accounts let's let's leave it then yeah okay but the only thing is if people ask why did you stop funding it should we have a note to say why you know what did Susie say um there's no solution at present yeah no no current uh requirement or something
like that or right no current activity i mean we don't we don't have to do anything right now they are not asking us to do something right now but the problem really has not gone away right no and so that's and which is probably why we want to leave the line there
and that's everything i mean like I said so so we're waiting on a tree warden police chief salary and more information about replacing the assessor yeah okay and so I have uh I am now at 238
mhm yeah 770 yeah that's what I have too yeah so um and this assumes uh that we are just just so everybody's clear that we we are plan to recommend at town
meeting the use of $130,075 of cash reserves to fund I think five lines or portions of five lines out of district
placement in the amount of $34,000 legal line increase of $20,000 portion of the police department's proposed increase in the amount of $34,000 the regional school assessment
increase in the amount of $33,825 and portion of the veterans benefits line which is $8,250 uh George so I think this is the point where we
look at the effect on the taxes with that spreadsheet we have that can help us do that and we also look at the effect on cash yeah you know I I've said multiple times now you all
know my opinion do we want to spike the tax rate and jump right up or do we want to smooth it in and we've tried to take some steps to smooth it in i don't think that it we should evaluate if we can put more cash towards the budget this year
in anticipation of letting the budget absorb the rest next year it would be really helpful if we knew and had a long range plan but we don't um the hope is and what we're hearing out of the region is the bumps in the next few years won't
be as great but we don't know that um so that's kind of the approach I would like to take like us to take yeah um yeah I I think I tend to agree George my only concern is I think
our our based on all the different assumptions we've discussed our free cash balance is dipping below the 10% guideline that we've tried to um
adhere to uh now we could we we could use some of the stabilization funds um that would be an option but um maybe maybe I'll just pull that up right now just so we can see yeah please do so 238770 right uh let's
see okay yeah you pull that up i'll I'll double check that but 238770 is the gap right now yes and uh all right so I what I'm seeing again
based on all these different assumptions we've got five proposed capital projects we've got $50,000 for PAS mitigation and then we've got five operating budget lines that that we are proposing to fund
with some free cash or at least partially fund that leaves us with $759,070 of free cash which is nine well actually you know what i might need to change that let's see oh it's 7.8 that's close enough that's close enough okay
yeah our budget is currently 793 so 7.8 works okay got it all right so that's that's puts our free cash balance at 9.7% um a little bit yeah a little bit low
now we've got our guidelines say that we should have 5% of the operating budget saved up in stabilization funds we've got a little bit of room there so I was wondering if we might want to shift some of these
allocations from free cash to stabilization um Bob I see your hand up yeah I just want to say um I I think we should do that that that sort of thing at the end of this process because we don't know what else is coming in but I want to also say about uh what George's
point about let's smooth out the increase in the budget by throwing some reserves at it first of all if you read the newspaper today you'd see that there the we're in a very very strange period in our our economy and and we don't know what things are going to be like never
mind ne next year next month m uh we do have some capital programs uh capital expenses coming up next year which are significant like the parking lot and and some other stuff that we talked about earlier so that's going to be there uh
that's going to be put pressure on these accounts next year too so I'm not as a rule we've talked in the past and I think George has been one to say this we don't want to use cash to to fund operating expenses
uh it's kind of a bad road to take and uh I think in particularly in these perilous times we should be more careful with that approach not that I'm against lowering the impact of the taxpayer not at all but just uh I'm worried about that that aspect of things
AJ if we um if we look at the other schedule and look at what the impact on the taxpayers are at the different levels we might decide that we want pick a level and then see how much cash would um it would be we would have to spend to
achieve that level okay so George had prepared a uh let me see make sure I get the right one okay um the following analysis to see well maybe you want to walk us through this but my understanding is
this allows us to see the impact of varying levels of excessity levy capacity usage and see how that impacts the the uh so so what I did is column H
I took the data from the assessor's recap sheet and and I calculated the tax levy um and then I calculated the tax rate the average single family and you can see that our average single tax bill
is comes out to 6,000 6260 it's really 6258 there's rounding in there but I basically made this calculation to make sure I'm doing it right and then I took what we have in
2026 and right now I'm going to just double check the 5,943 on line 20 is the exact same number in our revenue sheet that we're using to fund our budget um
5,943 291 is that what that is yep yep.$ 290 dollar but yeah yeah so um and then I calculate if that's the case then I calculate the tax rate would be
about654656 after the senior um discount for the people who means test and we would end up with a average single tax bill of 6,549 but there's a flaw in this column and that is if we have $45,000 in new
growth then our assessed value of our property has to be the equivalent of the assessed value that you would tax to raise $45,000 so if you look at row seven in column J you will see that I raise well actually
above row seven there's an increase of $2844 current tax rate times that amount gives you $45,000 so the assessed value assume assuming that there's no market change in the next year and I'll get to that in a second we really need to
increase the assessed value of properties when I do that that changes the calculation down below on row 34 for the tax rate and you can see it lowers the tax rate because more people are getting taxed
and so the tax rate really if we did not use any excess levy capacity to fund this current budget the tax increase would be $2.38 and I also cross-check that number down below in section 45 and below we don't
need to necessarily look at that but we know that when we add $10,000 worth of expense that it adds 1.1 $111,000 worth of Oh I'm sorry um how do I word that um
I know that when we the impact on taxes is 1.1 it's just a formula that we came up with a long time ago um so I I use that and I essentially got the same numbers so I was cross-checking and it worked and how I know that works and I'm getting a little I'm getting a little
squirly here i understand but if you look at row 37 yeah and you look across you'll see as we increase the excess as we use excess levy capacity which is denoted on line
19 we lower excess levy capacity each year the 50,000 in red is added to the tax levy 100,000 150 you can see the tax levy in row 20 goes up by 50,000 right starting in K and through
and the impact of That is an increase of $55 on line the average single family tax that's down on row 37 if you look at the row numbers so every every
incremental increase in excess levy capacity of $50,000 results in a $55 increase in the average single family tax bill right for every 50 so for every hundred it's
$110 and that's the 1.1 factor I use at the bottom to double check my numbers because I want you know when we present this if anybody asks us or if we if we're going to present this information we're going to talk in terms of ranges these numbers are are estimates there's
factors that change but these are reasonable estimates of what the impact on our tax bills will be next year on the average single tax bill will be next year and you know the valuations are going to change next year properties are probably going to go up maybe they'll go down like Bob said in a month from now
it's going to be different than it is today and a month after that it's going to be different um but I'm using the same single family value for next year as we're using this year so it is appropriate to use the same assessed value because they both would change at the same
to basically the same extent or enough for you know government work for estimation okay so right now we've got just just to finish that so if you really want to look at column O because 250 to balance
this budget we would have to use 238 not 250 but using 250 you you know or you can go to column J AJ and in the blue type in 238770 and then for $4.99 we're looking at $500 increase in the average single
tax bill if we do but we do have we have a couple of lines that we know are gonna still need to be updated so it does seem like the 250 is probably an even better um approximation of where
we're going to end up right um yeah I I guess I mean hopefully we warden line yeah uh Susie and because the whole game is about juggling jello and we don't know state aid we don't know this that
and the other thing in the past our conservative um estimates have not um run an increase of 2.5 that's how we got our excess levy capacity so we know that this would be
an outside number likely um 5 uh is it 511 yeah 511 or 499 whatever is likely to be an outside number in terms of the tax bill increase I would I would make two points about that one um we are using probably the
lowest estimate of a cherry sheet and so we are being conservative so to Sus's point it's true these numbers are the worst case scenarios and the other thing is in the past when we made predictions at town meetings about what the tax rate will be next year I've always argued that the logic
we use wasn't the best logic um but for conservative sake so when I showed you up top earlier I add value for the new growth we haven't been doing that in previous years so we've been calculating
much higher tax t tax rates than have been happening and that's a debate I've had honestly with Becky and Becky wanted to be conservative and she didn't want to do that but I really think that we're always too high and that is the reality
is that value will be added to the assessed values of the town so I'm comfortable doing it this way and to Susie's point we do always come up higher but I think this year not to the extent that we have in the past okay and and the reason for that is because we're
assuming a higher new growth amount than we have in in years past is that Well it's not only that well we would put in a new growth amount but we would never adjust the assessed value for the values of those new properties i see got it yeah and so
that's what I'm doing this year i see and I've got it set in a formula when it was 35 and I changed to 45 it automatically adjusted the value of the properties because I got a formula to do that so I just think this is a more accurate way to do it and Susie's right we have been well too high on the
estimates and I think we probably will be this year because we're being as conservative on our revenue estimates but it won't be to the extent it has yeah okay that's helpful bob just to respond to what George said I think I follow you George i do understand and
agree that you're right about that but one point to make is that the way that we calculate those things allowed us to acrew a lot of cash we got a lot of free cash out of that without having to try because we were underestimating uh th those factors and so if we were to
tighten up our projections we won't be getting that cash so that's another consideration i don't I don't believe that's true because these are just estimates and we generate our free cash from under
spending their budgets as far as we also generate by by under under um representing uh how much revenue we get uh from right but the the assessors are going to determine what the actual revenue is and they're going to find out what the latest chur sheet is they're going to find out what the most current
we're talking September October the most current estimate for um local aid and all the other sources and they're going to set the tax rate based on that not based on anything on our revenue side so that really this decision we make here
now is not going to result in us generating free cash or but my my poor judge was it affects it in that we plan the budget on under those in those terms so that does create the surplus that I was referring to when when the final
numbers come in we had more money raised than we had planned to get so that is simply true isn't it not no because we underspent we present a budget and then we present how we think it's going to be funded but
ultimately and the tax levy number we come up with could change based on the new information the assessors will have in the month of October and so what would happen is if chapter 70 is higher
then they'll lower our tax levy number but they're still going to make sure that there's enough money to cover the amount of the budget it's just going to change where that money comes from and none of that's going to generate free cash what's going to generate free cash is if we collect more than they
estimated we were going to collect or we spend less than what we budgeted but this decision is not necessarily going to generate free cash or put us in a position where we would because the assessors are going to not necessarily you they're not going to use these numbers the only number they're
going to take out of all of this is the budget number and then they're going to look at all the things that we've been estimating and they're going to use those things to calculate the tax rate so if chapter 7 is higher they'll lower the amount of the tax levy it'll be lower than what we said but in the end
of the day they're still going to be generating or anticipating the same numbers we are on the bottom line to cover the budget i know it's it's the way the state sets this up i guess it's probably the only way to do it but it does get tricky but you know
again this is not going to affect free cash it's the behavior that department heads and the taxpayers i don't know where you get extra revenue from but but basically what you're saying is that if we fund the deficit right now uh that
would be the 250 some Yeah something close to that yeah yeah some It's going to be somewhere between 500 and $530 five i you know I would even say between 480 and 55 530 yeah something like that but yeah
so is there anything else that we could take out of our cash reserves to kind of moderate this the the uh impact you know oh I I if I may I I don't want to
confuse things but I'm probably going to aj if you scroll down to row 45 I'm Yeah row 54 thank you one of the things I did was I took the breakdown you can see I have estimated increases to count just to double check my one the
ones above and the 505 versus the 499 the 297 versus the 283 and we're okay i also am able to break those down between the three components of new revenue and the three components are two and a half right the two and a half increase the
library building is new and the excess levy capacity and when we say that we're adding $500 to the average single tax bill it's broken out by those three things and the the key thing I want to point out is that the library building year one is adding $63 to the average
single tax bill so you might want to take that into perspective when you're thinking about these increases right that's helpful that's actually helpful so so what we could say is you know under some of the under our
assumptions the average single family tax bill is going to increase $500 and $275 of that is due to our utilization of excess levy capacity
263 uh Oh yeah you're looking at Yeah yeah yeah you're right yes i was looking at the 250 number but yeah yeah i get it okay susie um to April's comment is there anything else we would move out of operating to
take from cash reserves i think the thing we also have to be concerned about is we're going to ramp on some other expenses next year and we will have x amount of uh levy available using 2.5 of
whatever we approved this year and so we have to make sure we're not getting too far out there so um this is a process of softening the spike but we we have these expenses we're trying to meet two two years
[Music] yeah that makes sense i think one of the things we could consider is any because we are not taking on new debt and we're not using stabilization to buy any new assets anything that comes to us next
year for a purchase well I guess it's not necessarily true for the parking lot i was going to say generally speaking well generally speaking when we go to town meeting and we approve something and it's going to be borrowed the B or even purchased many
times you don't it doesn't happen in the subsequent year it happens in the following year it doesn't happen in in 26 it it happens in 27 so when people come to us in 26 for 27 we might not have any debt service from any of that my point being we might be able to use
some of our stabilization next year to pay off one of those notes um I don't know i guess I'm I'm thinking out of the I'm So my point being maybe we could justify using cash for some of that new debt service
that we have this year knowing that we might pay one of those items down and it won't be in debt service the subsequent year possibly replaced by something else but you might call it making a down payment on future asset per purchases I
don't know that's that's one thought I had I also think that if we're talking about smoothing out increases we smoothing out the police department um we're smoothing out potentially well we're smoothing out the
police department why not do with the health insurance and say you know 20% is too much in one year so we're going to hit you with 10% and then the next year 10%'s going to the other 10%'s going to come in you know because that increase was
what 104 I think we lowered it to 99 right so I mean half of that 50 what would happen if our 238 or our 250 went to 200 now we're looking at 457 instead of 511 and 63 of that is the the library so
basically it's $100 plus the impact of the library 400 plus the impact of the library that would make our free cash reserves use go from 130 up to 180 is that what you're
thinking uh that would be the effect of that yes yep so so the health Okay let me just make sure it's a little late so my I'm getting a little f How do we do this health insurance the health insurance line is projected
to increase 99 well we're budgeting a $99,000 increase so your suggestion is that we take essentially half of that increase or about $50,000 and fund that
portion with cash reserves yeah in anticipation of us having to uh absorb the rest in the subsequent year so that would reduce the gap by $50,000 and that would bring
us lower lower tax bills by that 55 the average tax bill by that $55 you you pointed out earlier yes okay puts us at 457 right uh wait say that again puts us at 457
for the uh estimated increase right uh excuse me the other thing I've heard George talk about is we have been pushing on our representatives to change some of the aids that we receive it's
true we have really uncertain times but I believe that bringing the town along as best we can keeps us from getting into a bigger hole there's things if you don't spend now you have to spend later and it's more expensive so um there's a
hope and you know it's it's the kind of advocacy I've been trying to do with our legislators to get some of the funding for rural aid or for the pilot or for um different um possible revenues we can't
count on it but we can say that's where we're working and that would also help change next year's um picture yeah Bob I just want to say if we do this what George is proposing uh and that's 10,000 that's half of the money
will be uh will be have to deal with next year the other 10% there's no guarantee that we're not going to have another increase in healthcare next year as well so that's my concern about that yeah and as Kristen said the light at the end of the tunnel but I didn't know it was going to be a blue flashing light
at the end of the tunnel it's scary 9:00 is the sort of witching hour for me so so we should probably wrap up george did you Yeah no the only I was just going to say what Susie said i There is a possibility one of the
other possibilities here is some of this money we're using for cash to create a structural deficit may actually be filled by future revenue that is a possibility there are three bills that potentially could help us the Senate is arguing about chapter 70 if they do come
up with a little something it helps Shootsbury a little but it also helps the region which helps Shootsbury a little potentially so that is another part of the coin one we're stepping up and two there is a chance that future revenues will fill some of that that gap
I think is a really important point um Yeah okay uh last thing I I wanted to say tonight was just um uh I think we we've got time but one of the things I think we're going to
need to do this year is pull together information on what's happening with budgets in our neighboring communities um I think that's going to be important context for our residents we're not
we're not alone in experiencing the kind of pressures budget pressures this year every every it feels seems like every day the Gazette's talking about another town that's contemplating an override or is dealing with something like this so I
think I think George um uh you you you did something similar last year if I remember correctly three years ago i don't want Okay so you have a lot on your plate i'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that to assign you that responsibility but I but I thought it was very helpful and I remember we
shared some of that information at our budget info session maybe even a town meeting and so that's just one of the things I think we should do in preparation for for a town meeting this year is kind of pull together that information from from uh towns and I'm
I'm willing to spend some time pulling that info together susie I did follow up with talking to the school about the software program they got to help schools negotiate teacher contracts a
database that's in real time and it has all the factors and it took a big load off of the volunteers who were trying to negotiate teacher contracts i got back to that company they said "Oh we're just rolling out the municipal one." And so
um so there's a mu there's going to there's a municipal database that does treasurers and accountants and all of those numbers and um I am thinking that the personnel board needs to hear about it and it might be something that Furcog
can hear about it but I think it will help us share this information about benefits and um different salary scales for different positions including long uh seniority and things like that so
we've done a lot of work it's this is a lot of work to get this budget in front of us but I do believe there's some possibilities and of course it would cost something but I think Furcog would be the right agency to hold that um contract and that then we might get some
of this information we need that would be great George so I have done that in the past AJ because you know I read the paper and I'd see it i'm like "Oh I got to write this down." Yeah here's my suggestion is we create a template we put it on
the Shootsbury Finance Committee Drive Google Drive and as people read and see stuff put it in there yeah just load it up that way we can all contribute and I think I'll try and make a little template because I think one of the basic things you always want to have is
what's their budget increase in terms of dollars and percentages and then we can a lot of it's going to be free form just text you know people can just write this because of the school going up and blah blah blah yeah or include a link to an article or something yeah that's a good
idea okay great all right anything else before we adjourn tonight so I got the deficit at 188770 that's what they the insurance the health insurance yes that's the basically taking the $50,000 off what we
had before the 233 got it okay motion to adjurnn second so we meeting when are we meeting again oh yeah so let's tomorrow so um the 15th i thought I heard yeah 15 yep
okay good okay all right all right i just want to see the Celtics i guess we should vote george Ros oh oh one other thing i'm sorry yeah go ahead we should have comment um
uh I told Rita because she asked me today would you reach out to her AJ well it sounds like we actually made this decision just reach out to her to let her know when we can meet with them uhuh we did yeah you just sent her an email it sounds like we already decided so I
guess it's spec about the Warren articles or or something else yeah no about the Warren about the budget yeah i I I'll I'll uh I'll send her a message okay arvinis Ross I Hemingway I Cashew I
Moer I salvador I and Stein I good night thank you for your work good night all right good night