Recording in progress. >> Let's see if that works. No. Is anybody getting sound? >> You are okay. I can hear it. >> We can't hear Mark though, can we? Okay. Yeah, I heard you loud and clear, Katherine. But I'm not hearing anything
from Mark, >> right? >> I think my microphone is off. >> There we go. Yep. We hear you now, Mark. >> Okay. Can you hear us now? >> We do. All right. >> Yes. And we can see the whole room now. >> Okay. Thank you, honey. Nope. Um
now quick question is can you hear um can you talk >> can you hear me now? >> Yes very well. Okay. So everything excellent function here. I'm looking for that. I'm looking for an
uh >> use my phone. >> I can use my phone. It's on the >> Yeah, >> it's on the screen. >> All right. There's at least an agenda in the minutes off meeting. Thank you. >> Yeah, it's up on the upper right. It
says it's recording, I think, right of the screen. All right, good. I don't seem to have control. Like I said, it's control from here. The chair is wants to be in the meeting is in the mic.
Does anyone remember how to do a co-host? So, we can have the conference room as co-host. I think we're just going to wing it like this. >> So, you want to make the conference room? >> Yeah, I think I already see how it's planned. >> Yeah, but I don't want any controls
here. All my controls. >> Not that I need them there, but I think there's something we needed to do as a coho. Make a co-host. >> You can only do one or the other. >> Is I I mean, I hate to monkey around too
much. Sh. I think we're okay. So that sounds okay for everybody. Okay, we're just going to wing a little something like but figure it out. Okay, so good morning. Um let's see
here. I think we start off by just introducing everybody. Um uh let's see here. Uh I'm Mark Burus. Now over here's Howard. Uh Walter, uh Lenny, um uh
John's over on here as a guest. John's over here as a participant. And I forgot your name. I'm Tom. >> Tom, I'm sorry. Uh online, we have uh Katherine's online. Um Mary Dave is
online as a guest. Bob Douglas is online. Eric is online. Frank is online. Frank again is a guest. And I want and art. Let's see here.
Art art is online and conference. What's the conference room? Uh a little frazzled tonight. Think quite so smoothly. Okay. Get in here. Uh so, uh when we review the agenda with the
alternate meeting, which is, uh it's like 9:05. Um I'm reviewing the agenda now. We'll have a period of public comment. Uh we'll review the minutes from the November 15th meeting, which is the last time we met. Um
we activities the suggest they can um get an update on the lake wershed site site visit update on DM and management activities.
Uh we're going to have discussion about the review of the committee membership and any items that we uh didn't anticipate. Does that make sense everybody? on. Okay. Okay. Uh so I think we should open the
floor for public comments there. >> Okay. That'll fix that. I don't think there's any public comments. >> All right. of a chance to review the minutes of the November meeting with any comments or corrections that need to be made.
>> I um I think I wrote you an email there's for John Glory's name in the vote tables um listed both as yes and absent but >> I didn't Oh, okay. I didn't notice. Did you do that? >> I thought I did that. >> I didn't check. Sorry. I didn't look at
this one here. Oh, I corrected that. >> Actually, I still see you on this on the email, but I appreciate that time. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Any other any other comments? I'll make a motion that we accept the
minutes as amended. Second. Second. We love the votes accept the minutes. >> I Yes. Motion and Howard second. Okay. Um yes. Bob D. Bob. Hi.
Uh, John, I Catherine, >> yes. >> Eric, >> yes. >> Uh, yes. >> Uh, Tom, >> hi. >> Uh, Eric, Eric, did you uh are you only yes or no
to approve the minutes? >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, Walter, sorry, Walter. Yes. >> And Mar. Yes. Okay. Well, we're we're good with minutes then. Connection to
done. Okay. Um, next thing on the agenda is a review of the GM activities of my screen. A lot's happened since we uh since our
last meeting here. Okay. So, let's see what we got here. So, back in November, the the week after our last meeting, uh and Howard, you guys can you Howard Glenn, you can fill these things and fill in a gap. You uh Howard realized that the the dam was
leaking. Now, we're usually leaks uh but in a different place. And uh uh you mind just describe that a little bit? >> Well, in one of my checks, I was looking downream and I saw all this sand over
all the rocks in the Brook area. Something's wrong here someplace. And I called uh uh Walter and he came down and we got looking around. And when I first walked out at the lake, it was moving, so you really couldn't see
through the water. And when the second time when I went out in the front, it was clear and you could see a hole over on the the as I'm looking at the lake over on the right side. So, we figured out what was happening. The water was coming down through there
and going out and spreading the environment. spreading sand all over the place there. So then we got a hold of Lenny and he came down and he and Walter talked about
it and Lenny went and reported it to GSA was it? >> Yeah, GCA. >> GZA. Yeah, sorry. And And so GZA So GCA came out the next day. >> No, they came they came later that day. They came up. They came at like dusk
basically what I remember >> about 3:30 in the afternoon. They came out and that's when he said to uh because he was talking to somebody in uh was a damn >> office of damn safety. >> Damn safety and during the conversation
they decided to bring the lake down another five feet. >> Three no three feet. Another three feet. Five feet for a total of five. >> Yeah. Sorry about that. And uh yeah, that's right cuz I already had it down too and just to get it past
that hole and that's what we've done. >> Also clean the the rack. Yeah, >> that that was the main cause of this, which has been something that we've been trying to address for years, >> is the fact that if the if the trash
rack plugs up significantly, it's still trying to draw water from somewhere >> because of the head pressure. And in this case, what it finally did was found another path other than through the the trash rack into the sleuth way. It found
another path being through the sand and the rocks into different parts of probably mostly into the area of the um slleway or in the area between the the plastic liner and the old stone
lining because when the original was done um that was supposed to be filled with with grout to make it a solid passageway and apparently They weren't able to do it. And what we found they did was they
plugged up the ends with styrofoam and then mortared over the outside so it looked like it was full. And with the added negative pressure, the actual styrofoam blew out the end of the of the area between the slleway and the stone
sloo way and gave it another path. So it was drawing water through there and through the the leaks in the stone of the well and just pulled all the sand with it. So I did did dive the next day, I believe it is, or within within a couple days
>> to remove >> this time a significant amount of material, including large sticks and all kinds of stuff. And it was, matter of fact, I have video of that dive, too. And you almost can't see the gate. There
was so much stuff. I mean, if you didn't know it was there, you might not have seen it. There's just so much debris. Um, but even after we opened that up, I mean, well, we we determined that that's most likely the cause just because in
opening the gate only an inch, the water level in the well by the gate dropped about a foot and a half, two feet almost, which instantly signifies that it's not drawing water through the SLway because only opening it an inch, you shouldn't
see any change in it. Um whereas opening an inch it's letting more water out than is coming in. So the water level drops. Um so we then we did clear that um and and which helped relieve otherwise all the water would be going through there
as you were trying to lower the dam you would be or lower the lake you'd be lowering the lake through the sinkhole not through the gate. >> So we clean that and it was able to draw then through more through the gate. And that was the end of my my real
involvement with it. And it was between Howie and and Lenny. >> But just for information, Walter had cleaned that back in September. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's how fast it build up. >> That unusual it sense of why that is.
>> It some of it in Well, it's it's been a poor design from original. We I mean that's why I said we've been talking about this for years that they need to redesign that rack. Um I used to dive it back when I was fire chief emergency management director. So that was you
know at least three years ago almost four years ago. Um and I was doing it for a couple years then. So it it's been a problem now for the the hundred years before that before they did the the damn repairs and changed that trash rack. We
never had a problem. Never had to really clean that. And since they put the new trash rack in, it's been nothing but a problem. Um, so yeah, there's a problem with that. And I don't know if I mean, there was a large
amount of sticks, unusual amount from what it normally is. So I don't know if it was wash away from the beaver dam at the, you know, at the other end in the cover. Um, with high flow, some of that stuff floated down. Although a lot of
the stuff looked like it was cut straight rather than you know a beaver chewing it. So is that people cutting brush and leaves on their on their yard and letting the w the stuff just go in the lake rather than dealing with the brush? It's hard to say
it. You know, I'm not going to point fingers at it. It's just there was a large amount of sticks and all that in there plus all the leaves which in the fall time that's usually the worst time because of all the leaves going into the into the lake. So it's a combination of a lot of
different things but the ultimate problem I think is the design of the trash rack. Always has been. But also um you really wouldn't notice it until the fall when I start to draw the lake down. You because during the summer it's just
basically it'll sometimes you won't even have to touch it month at a time and we're just drawing a little bit of water on the thing. But then when the fall when I open it up to draw that's when you find out that the thing is blocked.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Every every day that I go out there, I take a look at the trash rack. And what's weird to me, it's it plugged up like plugged up beforehand, but there I haven't seen a single stick or leaf go on it right now since our three-foot
draw down, you know, and I would have thought before the ice froze over, thought it would start plugging up a little bit because we're going down three feet. And yeah, there hasn't even been a single stick over over the rack. So, it's it's almost like a whole bunch
of sticks were dumped right over there just a week prior, you know? Um, just seems kind of odd to me the way the whole timing on everything how it got plugged up. >> Yeah. >> How deep is it now where the rack is
>> now? You can just the the rack is just under the water. >> Okay. >> Be like four or five feet. It's about 9 ft >> when it's when the lake is at >> when the lake is when the lake is at its highest level. It's Yeah. between 9 and 10 feet somewhere around there. >> Oh, you can see it from the surface now. You need
>> Yeah, you can see. >> Yeah, you can see it from the surface. And I actually even tried taking the uh just to make try if I can. I took the uh what do you call that? Howie out of the out of the damn house there. The big fork on the stick. >> Trash hook. The
>> trash. It's a fire. a firefighting tool, but it's called a trash hook. >> Um, yeah, I took the trash hook to just see if I could uh, you know, go along the rack, potentially clean it if it were to get, uh, plugged and just from
standing right next to it. And it's pretty easy to right now cuz the lake's low now. So, uh, that's definitely a possibility, but there hasn't been a single stick going over the over the bars since Walter cleaned it out that weekend.
Okay. So, and that gets us to to what happened. Yeah. >> All right. So, now what? >> Um, couple things are going on. Uh, obviously that that the town has really jumped all over this daily actually. Yes. n't done. Um and uh GCA so GCA came
up with a temporary design fix um and u which basically if I understand it and you guys can correct me if you is is basically they're going to put filter f filter uh fabric along there's a along
the uh the face of the dam then put gravel on top of that small gravel on top of that to hold it in place and then larger rib wrap up to uh chunks of rock uh to hold that in place. And so they're basically going to put a patch on it on
the on the front of the dam. Uh um and that's what is called a good sort of temporary fix. And if that holds if that works okay, they're hoping that the they we can raise the water level of the lake again. Uh
um GZA is working with the office of dam safety on all this stuff. Um right now we're uh we're got uh Haley has sent out uh request for proposal request for bids
and she's waiting to hear back on the bids. Uh we do have a problem with the uh I'm not sure who they are. >> Massachusetts EPA. >> Yeah, Massachusetta. and they're saying we need to do an environmental review before we do anything on the town. And so we're
trying to get around that, but the town's trying to get around that, but that's a significant amount of significant delay. We like to get fixed. Uh so she sent the letter off to uh our state reps to see if they could could help out uh uh Joe Kford and Aaron
Saunders uh to see if they could intervene on our behalf with the Mass Eye today. just, you know, so we can get the the dam patched out, >> right? Because isn't it my understanding right now that we've also got a letter from Office of Dam Safety Se saying
we've gone beyond the time limit to to actually start the the emergency repairs and that's mostly because we're waiting for bids to come back. But now another state agency is saying, "Oh, you can't do anything till you get a study done,
which means we're in more violation of another state agency." So, it's a little bit easy, but kind of work our way through it. >> I'm curious, um, if they do the repair, are we going to be able to raise the lake up to the spillway level or just to
the two feet low below the spillway? >> I don't have an answer for that, although I think I do. I think they don't know the answer to that. I think I raised that with the with the GZA engineers, and it's um it's they want to see what happens after they do the
repairs. and see how effective it is. Y >> um and uh so they're hoping that they can go back up to the normal some summer level. >> And again, just to reiterate, I mean, I sound like a broken record, but all the
repairs you do will probably work unless the trash rack plugs up again. Because as long as you keep the main flow where the water's designed to go, it's not going to draw from another try to draw from another source and therefore, you
know, cause a problem. But if it plugs up again, you're going to be back in the same situation. It's going to be looking for another, you know, path of least resistance. It's going to try to find another way through. >> I mean, just I hopefully I mean, they're
the engineers. They should understand that. But, you know, I just don't want the obvious overlooked is like we're doing all these repairs and oh yeah, if it works, we can go up. If it doesn't, I mean, it should as long as that trash rack is closed or left open.
>> Could you please tell me or us what prompted I'm not exactly sure what the environmental review means or what it is like what prompted it and what would they be studying or looking for? Do you know? >> Yeah, I don't know. >> Okay. Like was it already
on the table and it got accelerated or did this prompt it to happen in the first place? >> Well, this prompted it to happen. When you do a major uh when you do a major repair, you're supposed to do an environmental review >> even on an existing >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> But because but because it was an
emergency order from Office of Dam Safety, it says in the regulations, you do not have to do an environmental study. But mass EPA is saying the fact that it's an order constitutes it as a permit
if I got that just reading that quickly. Therefore, any permit >> needs to have a a review. >> Interesting. >> But that's all interpretation of what it is. >> Okay, that helps. >> But also, they're saying that when we do the major repair
>> Oh, it's going to have to have one. >> You're going to have to do it then. And that's what they're trying to put off so you don't have to do two of them. >> I see. Oh, this would encounter >> very inexpensive >> future repair then. >> No, that's right. It's to avoid two of them. That's how he's right about that.
>> Oh, Eric, could you repeat that? >> Pardon me. >> Could you could you say that again? just that um that how is right that the whole issue really is sort of is is not having two environmental re uh you know studies done and there sort of the same thing
and it's like why have one done then then then do the work and then have it done again that doesn't make any sense and it's expensive and that's what that's what Haley's doing work right now trying to get out of that and hopefully we will that's the plan you have your hand raised
>> yeah I I uh I just wanted to to say that um uh AB absolutely when a a major permit is is is is needed even sometimes al even even for emergency repairs that just triggers automatically a uh a
filing or or application type thing. So, um, but I I do think you can get around it for the exact reason that, uh, um, Walter said is that, uh, it is an emergency and often times that that's as long as it's restored back to what it was, you don't have to go through that.
But, um, what I was interested in was, um, Walter, it's it's it sounds like you pinpointed through your observations that it's the blockage of that, uh, that trash rack that's really causing the dam to wear out quicker than it should. What
what do you think is a good uh solution to that? Uh more frequent clearings, inspections, what what do you think, >> Bob? I feel it's it was poorly designed to start with. Um like I said, the old one, which we have pictures of when they
draw drew down to to do the repairs, was actually made of wood. Believe it or not, it was made of wood. The spacing between the bars was much bigger and it was put in at an angle. The the trash
rack that they put in in place of it was made of rebar, rough rebar, so the surfaces were really rough. The spacing was a lot closer >> and I don't have the measurements right now. And then it was put at a a
perfectly vertical position. So everything that comes up to it sticks. I watched one leaf come by and just go and stick right to a bar and then another one sticks and then because the it as they stick the spacing gets less and less then you need one stick to go
across it at an angle and it just builds up really quickly. And you know, it seems to me that if it if the wooden one with much larger spacing and angle to it lasted for hund, you know, hundreds of years and never
had a problem with it and suddenly have a problem with this new one, it's definitely a design problem. I mean, what I tried doing at one point to make this the surfaces smoother was we got PEX tubing and sliced it and you know,
it's PEX water tubing >> that was larger and sliced it and slid it over to make a split surface to it, which helped some, but the problem is inherently it makes the spacing even that much smaller. So, the spacing
between the the bars is is really too much. I think I can take like barely put two fingers in between the bars of the spacing. So, they're that close together. So, anything even, you know, a small twig is going to get caught. Um,
and the fact that it's I think that it's perfectly vertical helps all the forces directly against the gate, whereas being at an angle, it kind of deflects it up and gives it a chance to slide around. >> Gotcha. You know, again, I'm not an
engineer, but in observation, and I've been cleaning this thing for, I don't know, six, seven years, >> it's always the same. And and you know, I I've actually sat there and watched
it, you know, clear it, okay, stir up some stuff. What happens as it goes in? You see it dra, you know, the the flow bring it up and immediately start plugging the gate the the trash rack back up. So there's it's definitely a flaw in the gate and if that in my
opinion only um if that were to stay clear or mostly clear then there wouldn't be a problem because the only time we have a problem is when the gate plugs up and like I said if when the lake is full or close to it you've got a
10-ft draft a 10ft head pressure there. Um, that doesn't sound like a lot, but with water, it's a fair amount of of pressure. And if it's trying to go through the gate or the dam and you block the main flow, the design flow,
it's going to try to come from somewhere. And because the the dam is a stone and earthn dam, eventually it's going to find a way through >> find it way through those little cracks. Sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. right through the cracks between
all the rocks. And that's what happened. I mean, and obviously it happened this time enough that Howie could see the whole downstream side of the of the dam was covered in sand. That sand came from the inside of the dam being pulled through. And when
you look down even into the well, there was a lot of sand all over the place in the bottom of the well, too, where the gate just before the gate. So, it's been drawing a lot of sand through there. the the sink holes I could actually stick my arm in, you know, at least up to my elbows in between the spaces of the
rocks before I couldn't get through there anymore. But there was probably about four or five, >> you know, or or more multiple holes all in the same area all going together. So, >> wow. You know, the big the big thing is they
>> we can do the repairs, but they also have to and I think it does did state in that they were going to remove and and reinstall a new a new track >> because that will be the problem because if we don't fix that, this is going to be problem every year >> till it's done.
>> Excellent. Thank you. And and I just want to say a special thank you to Howard for your vigilance. um uh when um when water is going through a dam, it doesn't get any better on its own. So, but it can get a whole lot worse. So, thank you for picking that up so quickly.
Catherine, you have a hand race. >> Catherine, there we go. Yeah, I was just going to ask since we know the exact characteristics of a trash rack that works really well, what's standing between us and installing one just like that?
>> Engineers. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's it's the legality. I mean, I really didn't want to do too much to it myself because, you know, the legality of, you know, I'm not an engineer. um, you know, I I did what I could
to do incidental things to see if it made it better. But, um, you know, I again even talking with, you know, Morris root when on all the years that we were looking about that talking about it, it's like, you know, that's that's
something that has to be should be properly engineered and installed. I think you you may recall that um the dam the routine dam inspections identifying a number of problems and we
had funding from the state to do the design work to do those repairs. Uh and part of those repairs would include replacing the the trash rack. Well, all that stuff now we've switched gears and now we're doing that fun money is going
towards design of the liinary of the uh temporary repairs and u and so we still have to get funding to uh to do the actual emergency repairs and GCA is working with the state to try
to free up some funds for them. Now, next phase, you know, if this all works, um the next phase is to do what's called phase two inspection, which is a much more significant inspection of the dam. Uh they are going to have to drill through the dam, I think top down to and
do core samples and find out what's really going on. And in all likelihood, the that area of the DM will have to be rebuilt. But that the phase two inspection doesn't occur till next fall. all I
think been funding and and u uh and then we need to get a lot of money to do the actual permanent repairs and I think uh the GC engineer was talking about the last time I heard was in a meeting with them they were saying something like a
half a million dollars possibly so lots it's a lot of money now that's a two bill correct we also have to resize the uh the spillway so So it's going to have to be rebuilt. So it's a you know a lot a lot
of work has been happening currently. So does that sound about right from your guys? >> Yeah. >> Your guys understanding and Eric is that sound did you have any more information uh from uh GCAS? No, I'm I think we're we're just waiting for the as I say as
you said, we're um we're just waiting for the approval of different grants or we're trying to get different grants and and different proposals for to fix it. You the one thing that always bugs me or gets me is like it just seems like we just spent a lot of money on this dam to
get it fixed. You know, I'm not I'm really bad at these things, but probably within the la within the last 10 years, you're sort of going, why are we why are we doing this again? It's like it's it's whatever. >> Well, part of it, Eric, is that the the
work wasn't done properly the first time, >> right? No, I know that. >> I mean, that that when they when they lined the stone slleway with the plastic pipe, it was supposed to be completely filled with grout and sealed at both ends
>> and that didn't happen. They tried. There's some grout in there, but it's easy to see when you look at I mean, I've crawled up from the downstream side up to the back side of the gate and you look in there and it's gaping holes in
between the the pipe and the old stones loose way. >> Well, I guess my point is that somehow that deficient repair got past somebody like the inspector or the something. I don't know. I don't know. just seems a little weird to me.
That's all. I'm not >> Yeah, >> I don't know. If I was a lawyer, I'd be sharpening my pencil. I can tell you that right now. >> Um, that's about where things are. I guess it's uh Anybody other questions or
comments? >> I'd like to make one request. >> Sure. >> I need another staff gauge put right at the dam. We're having It's difficult now to even tell what the lake level is. Lenny and I were just suggesting
it's a lot of questions at that. They like to have one that's goes up plus two and down at least six feet. Okay. Um because once it go past five, you really you could measure
it on the rash racks from there on down. I we the the the committee has you know a small budget and we use that budget the LA to buy the last staff gauge and I don't see why we can't buy another staff
gauge. Um not sure how we can get it installed. Um >> well the perfect time is if they're got it drawn down doing the work. >> Oh that's right. If they if they're going to replace the trash truck, they've got to lower the lake down to the 8 ft level put in.
>> Yeah. >> Um >> in fact, they could use their tripods and all that to get the thing set at the right level, I would think. >> It says there's no rush to buy it. >> Well, yes and no. Want to do it before they do the get done with the repair.
>> All right. Um then uh >> not necessarily the repairs you want to do now, but I mean before the major repairs the major repairs won't occur until 2027.
>> Well, or or at best because they have to do the phase one. They got to do the phase two inspection which is significant. Yeah. >> And then they have to design do the design work to do the repairs. And we have to try it apply for funding the
state to do all this stuff. >> Yeah. Then probably for this one it should should be then when they started drawing it down for the major one we need to know where the level is. >> Yeah. >> How much ice is still on the lake? A lot.
>> Yeah. The ice is still thick. Good time to do it when there's ice on the lake because you can just cut a hole in it and use that that as the platform to work from the ice >> to to drive it down into where you're going to be and then you just can set up a transit and get the the height that it
needs to to be set at >> rather than trying to do it out in the water from a boat or whatever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We won't even go into that story. Um, >> so does won't the ice completely destroy it basically when
>> not necessarily cuz a lot of Well, if you go down there now, you got open water. >> Well, >> I mean, when it it may later on, it may lift it up. I mean, >> that has happened to the other one. It we we where we put it,
>> water usually moves, so it never really froze that much. Yeah. >> But yeah, having one by the dam might Well, that was because of the beaver dam, too, >> right? >> It slowed all the water and it froze in that area and it normally wouldn't. >> Yeah. So, the uh you know, if you I
guess at that point then you're talking making something that has a significant base to it, which is something we have to do when they're doing the repairs. A significant cement base with that set in it so the ice really couldn't lift it up.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So there's not so much movement in the ice launch. It's it's you know ice grabbing it and then changing the height to get a storm or something like that. Do we need uh so I I can go get I can go do some searches or we can anyone can do
some searches and see where we can buy an appropriate staff for um how about this is um uh how about we just go out and buy what we want. I'll I'll run it by you
guys uh you know through emails and um and then just go out live and get it in get it have it stored in in the in the uh gate house uh so that if the opportunity arises to put it in even temporarily >> uh we we can just get it done and then
we can reposition if necessary when they do the major repairs if they have to draw it down the lake a lot we can re we can include that in the as in part in the scope of the project. >> Sounds good. >> Do we need a motion for that or can we
just uh >> I move that we do just what Mark said. >> I'll second it. >> So, um so a motion to go out and buy a staff, >> right? Uh Katherine has accidentally
cath our secretary so she'll let us know how much money we have available. Um but the town pays for it. One way or another someone's going to have to pay for it. They weren't expensive there. I think >> and I believe the the the posts that we use we got from the highway department.
It's one of the the longer galvanized heavy galvanized post that they use for street signs. >> Okay. >> So yeah. >> So let's see. So the motion is that we're going to go on buying an extra staff gauge and as soon as we can and if
it's and have it stored in the source someplace and and if the option arises to put it in, we put it in. >> Okay. Um so that's the motion. Uh >> and it should be as how we said to read 2 feet above
you know full level down to what you say five or six feet below. I'd say at least six feet >> because right at five feet it's not quite to the uh trash at six wood. So if you need to measure anything else you can measure
>> fresh rack itself. Okay. So, uh, >> all right. So, we're going to vote on on that on that motion. Uh, Lent. >> Oh, yes. >> Bob, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Jeffrey,
>> yes. >> Art, >> yes. >> Howard, yes. Mark is yes. Tom, >> yes. >> Uh, Eric, >> yes. >> And Walter, >> yes. >> Okay, I'm just going al here. So, just
so I single anybody out here. Hey, uh, good. So, I I can look into that or you guys can look into that and do some searching and see if we can find it manufactured. I probably have the the information on who we originally bought the last one
from. It seems to be okay. But um and I'll circulate that around to the group too. And so if anybody wants to do some searching to see where we we've see what our options are. Good. Okay. Um anything else? Any other
questions or comments about Dan? Anything I missed? Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Um, next is an update on the Lake Biola watershed study site visit. There is no update that we're supposed
to meet um with the engineers who are doing the design work for the to for the area around the lake to reduce sil contaminants from getting into the lake. Um they were supposed to
meet on Friday uh but they because of the snow and they didn't and so now it's tenatively scheduled for next Friday. Um and uh I think it's the 27th time of day. I think it's 1:00. >> Thanks. >> And the last plan was to be to my house
because of there's no place to park anywhere anymore because the snow uh and then do a walk around and then somehow be on the other side of the lake and do a walk around there. Is that GZA too? >> GZA is the company who's doing that work also. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> I'm not sure if it's the same guys. This is the same engineers, but we'll find out. >> So hopefully on the next meeting I'll be able to give you guys give everyone an update of what's what's going on in there. See here. Any questions left?
Okay, good. uh update on the beaver uh beaver dam management. Um is that all is that everyone's on the understand is that all done? >> Yes. So the beaver dam has been removed. >> Yes. >> So the beaver dam's been removed but I
mean do we have anything in place to prevent them from coming back? >> No. and one circ of action when they do come back. >> Same thing you're doing right now >> because it seems really just bad to wait 6 months and have that covert be plugged
50% and 6 months and have to wait even longer just to get it cleared out. I mean the road was starting to be w you know there are sink holes in the road. >> Well, if they take care of it like we did in the past when you see brush there
take it out. Don't let it build into a dam. I would say that they should be checking it at least once a week during the beaver time. Usually it doesn't happen in the summer. It's in the fall when I start drawing the lake down. Then
then the beaver says, you know, >> they they see the drop in the water level and say something wrong. They're going to that's instinct. And you can't put anything out around it like a fence or something like that because the um camp uses that area for launching their
canoes and you can't be carrying them across the road. These are all little kids and it's a dangerous area to be carrying things anyhow. >> Yeah. >> So basically in the fall time we have to keep an eye on it. >> Yeah. >> At every time. So what's
>> what's it hurt when he stops by? Like I stopped the other day just to be sure. >> Yeah. So I >> driving by there, stop, go out and take a look at it. >> So I've heard multiple things of like any stick across the across the uh the stream there, you have to go through the
um conservation commission to remove it. Now what's the real >> I think it's board of health is one >> board of health, the conservation commission. Now it's >> Well, the board of health put it out. You will that they will keep that open. Yeah. Well, good receded.
>> Oh, yeah. I was um I wanted to ask about the results of the trapping. We had a whole trapping uh regimen set up in the fall. Do we know if they got any beavers? >> Six that I heard. >> Six.
>> Are they finished? Have they taken the traps in or they still >> I think so. They may be working for Pinebrook. they were going to go further upstream. >> As as far as the board of health goes,
we have to give a permit if if the trapping is taking place outside of the trapping season, but that's really our only uh involvement in it. It's more about the conservation commission if you're going to lay hands on an actual dam.
Bob may want to speak to that. Yeah. Um um I'll let Bob I I think it was eight beavers because um the clerk for the board of health in Wendell and that's the report I got from the trapper >> and it seemed to include traps whether
they were at the culvert or upstream >> um area FYI. >> Thank you. Yeah, interestingly enough, uh, towns do the the beaver thing differently, even though it's a it's one state of set
state of, uh, state regulations. Um, I would say go through board of health if you're if you're going to trap. Um, the, uh, conservation commission can issue an emergency that's good for 30 days. Generally, that's the way it it's done. a highway department or uh board of
health because of flooding somebody's septic system needs a beaver dam taken down. It the uh conservation commission signs off in an emergency. Um if there's something big being put in like a um a beaver deceiver that requires engineering and elevations and things
like that, then that would generally requires a a notice of intent permit. So that's that it seems to me like um uh the clearing that you're talking about would uh would be um something that
would be allowed under an emergency. Uh and uh as Katherine quite correctly stated that that trapping outside of the season does need a permit from the from the board of health. >> Question Bob, if you probably can't answer this, but I'm going to ask it.
What constitutes a beaver dam? If you if you catch it with a few sticks across the bottom where they're starting to build some stuff up, is that a dam yet? Can you not touch that or is it a dam once it starts holding back water? And I know it's a really gray area,
but you know the thing is if you could you start seeing some activity there or if you remove a few sticks when it's still a few sticks and it's not holding back water, is that a damp? Does that need a permit? >> Uh, great question. And it really sounds
like a minefield to me, Walter. Um, >> yeah, that's why I asked it. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I I would say a few sticks is not a uh is not a beaver dam. I would say, you know, a structure is. Um, so that that that's that's the the that's
how I I would I would see it. Um um emergency search should not be hard to get. However, I would think that um uh whoever's in the highway department or whoever whoever does the road says, "Hey, you know, this we're in danger yet
again of uh being undermined by this um uh you know, by by beaver activity." I think that could be signed off fairly quickly. So, that's that that would be my best guidance for you. Um >> um we've been doing a lot of research on
Wendell about it because of this actual beaver permit and dam over the last few months and there is guidance from the state that is not um kind of a regulation but the guidance is that
uh for an outofse trapping permit regardless of where that trap is board of health should that trapping permit entail reaching a known dam als also concom for the emergency permit
separately should that trapping in any way entail altering the water flow regardless of whether there's a dam involved conservation commission is supposed to be involved. So it starts with board of health and then if it either is a change in water flow or a
breach of the dam um then conservation commission is asked to participate in the emergency granting process and as Bob said from town to town whether you're breaching the dam can even be kind of a definitional question for some towns or if you're really
altering the water flow. So I think asking about a stick and whatnot it's always going to come back to an interpretation. Um but the regulation says or that guidance sheet says from DPH um BOH please tell the concom if there is a dam or potential water flow
change involved so that they can be involved concurrently >> in the process. So and that's kind of how the state leaves it. They can't force the BO and KON to talk to each other so to say but they asked them to.
Is there any solutions to like scare the beavers out of the area? like have a camera and like a noise some type of noise cannon or you know like a fake wolf on the side of the you know a predator on the side of the road to scare him away or scarecrow
or something because this see it just seems you know last year we had the culbert plugged for six months >> and I think that's really uh playing with fire in a way of like all we had to do is have a really big rainstorm and a
tree falling over. And what happens if that road washes out? It'll be a disa complete disaster. >> You know, we've had that happen before. >> We didn't know there was a beaver dam and we had a big rainstorm and it took
the dam. >> Yeah. >> But I found in the past if you keep cleaning these sticks out, eventually the beaver gets this isn't working and he goes some other place. >> Yeah. and you don't have to touch them and
everything. But this is just in the last few years we started having these beaver dams and >> well the population and everything. Nobody wanted to take them out yet >> and the last one we had was kept through the whole winter
>> which made them where they were was almost like concrete because they didn't work on it. Take it out soon enough. So, it's a it's a very big gray area about just removing a couple sticks versus when it turns into a real what we had
>> sound like it's got to be stopping some water. The sticks weren't it was just like floating right there >> where they wanted to build one. >> We go ahead. Sean is going to add commentarily, it's tough because um
further upstream where Fisk Pond is and not Repind Bones to the land, that's completely protected now. >> So the beavers there can grow, you know, >> and they've done a lot of damage up there >> and that's really not far away, you know. >> Yeah, totally. I mean, this this is
problems only going to this is not going to go away just by removing one dam. you'll end up with >> these beavers are going to come back indefinitely, you know, indefinitely. So, it's like I think we should try to think outside the box and just having that damn plug up
50% of that coal for 6 months. >> Well, we can't whatever happens, we can't let it get >> that is like to me it's just asine. Like we're waiting. What are we gonna do? Wait till the road wash up. Um that's a huge problem. I mean, how is an ambulance going to get to Wendle if that
road washes out? >> Yeah. I think that brings to light the competitive interests here. Like we have a strong interest as a town. I understand that camp has a strong interest, too. >> Yeah. >> And there probably are even other interests involved. And it's >> it's hard to navigate it. >> That was the first time that ever
happened. >> Yeah. >> All the other dams we we took out before they got to be >> before it got that. Yeah. >> That they're bad. That one >> Yeah. was should have been taken out in the fall prior. >> I got a picture of a former firefighter
standing in one of the sink holes in that on that road. I mean, it it is just nuts. >> Yeah. Well, that that whole issue was should not have happened the way it did. So, >> yeah. >> I just don't want to see it again. That's all. >> I thought the highway department agreed
to kind of keep keep it clear. >> I think they have now. Yeah, now they have. before they did >> last fall that fall before. No, they didn't. >> And I thought that they were going to put a a line item in their budget for for beaver for beaver management and
>> um and to keep that clear. >> Uh Chris, >> um is it worthwhile for can someone want to volunteer to touch base with the highway department and see what their plans are? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can go talk I can talk to them. >> Okay, I think it's worthwhile. And uh
and then uh maybe Bob you could check have a conversation uh with the uh con and see can we can they just issue a a permit to continuously clear out the uh the co and just to have an ongoing permit to do
that last >> and it comes back on I I apologize Please Mark, uh, can you repeat that? >> Um, do you think you could have a conversation with KCO to see if they can just issue a permit to keep the to not
remove a data, but to keep the the color clean? Yeah, I could I could certainly ask Beth and and um uh I I think I think the um there is no maintenance of of uh to allow for uh it to be kept uh clean for
for for a period of years. I think it has to be done under an emergency and um folks have gotten in trouble from that before. I it it's stupid. Um it's you know used to beavers used to be regulated by fish and wildlife and then
now it's they're regulated more by public health. Um the u uh you know it's certainly been frustrating throughout my career. But I I think the best way to go that at least has worked the two towns I've been in is to do the emergency search. Hey the uh
um DPW director or highway direct see something start to happen and uh a a a permit that's good for 30 days and be extended for 30 days is issued. So, that would that'd be my recommendation, but I'll give I'll shoot Beth a text at the end of this meeting just to get her
feedback. >> I think the intent is is keep it clean before there's a difference in water before there's a dam there. Uh, and not to make a lot of work for KCOM or anybody just, you know, just just do it.
>> That would be that would be that would be great. Um I uh um you know when is a stick and when is it a dam um uh but um uh it can it can be done through emergency searchs uh it shouldn't shouldn't take a lot of time and uh but
I don't think there can be a standing permit to keep a covert uh uh clear of beaver activity but let me let me make that my homework and I'll get back to you uh next meeting. Okay, >> great. Appreciate it. To me, a dam is if there's a difference in water quality.
You know, if there's a difference in in height, you have a you have a dam. But if you have sticks there, it's they're not going to they're they're not going to cause a differential in height and therefore there is no dam. >> I would I would agree with that that uh
summary. >> Yeah. to me to me if the culvert was already passed through you know conservation commission as water's going through the culvert why do we have to get permission to make water go through the culvert again
>> yeah you know it's um uh >> doesn't necessarily make sense by >> right I'm just I'm just asking >> right so uh and I I I had hoped that I covered it before the um if if you're putting in something like a beaver
deceiver fever. Um that would require a notice of intent, but but generally um things done under emergency uh those are just um signed off on. So there's not a a permitting process and then it's simply ratified at a uh at at another
meeting uh at a future meeting. So um uh and you know anybody who's in a position of uh in the town uh again the uh board of health because the septic systems is flooding out they can issue an emergency
uh highway department DPW if there is is something that you know would cause a a lasting effect. Could the conservation commission like every month just issue the town a certification to keep the culvert clear?
>> Uh just automatically do that. >> If uh if the if there is a clog it needs to be act on acted on then the commission could issue a permit to just you know make it uh something that comes off of a a secretary's desk um every
month. I don't think is something that that would be done. Somebody has to file for the emergency thing. >> Be you the highway or whatever, you know. >> Yeah. >> So, it just sounds like just get it done every month and
>> well as needed. I mean, >> why go through the whole whole things of doing it if there's nothing happening? It's just it's how we said observe. If you see something start, then you immediately file for the emergency service, you know,
emergency order and get it taken care of right away before it's a problem. >> Okay, it'd be good if Bob's going to take us up to compound. What's the the the easiest approach being clear?
>> And u and possibly highway department will just just get into the actual work. >> I I I can tell you it's something that uh towns across the Commonwealth struggle struggle with and the uh D is
not shy about issuing fines to municipalities for this for this. So it is something you want to be careful about. So I uh I will double back with um Beth to see how she's done it in Ammerst and and how things have been done here in Shootsbury as well.
>> Great. That's I think that's good play. At least we can understand what what has to be done. Let everybody know and then follow the rules with as with minimal effort as possible. Okay. Um
any more discussion about the beaver management or beaver dam management comments or questions. Okay. Um next item on the agenda is uh a review
of proposed uh definition of our committee. What I did is I together this definition I circulated to everybody. I got comments bad which I incorporated into this. This is the the latest version. Um
uh there's a number of copies around here u and should be everybody's email. Uh but proposal for the let's review this here. The proposal for the membership from will include one member from the
select board or designate that's the right word one member from conservation commission or designate one measure one member from the board of health say or designate one member from the plan board designate uh the emergency management
director and then or designate the damkeeper uh a minimum of three members and maximum of five members from the Lake Biola Association. Um and one of the LWA members should also be a member of the
LWA board of directors so that uh to create a um you know a good communication flow between the LWA board and uh and our committee and then I added one associate non- voting member
uh last select one which provide additional technical expertise uh and that's being that's Walter's role on the committee. Um, comments from anybody? Catherine, we're off.
>> Yeah, my only problem with this is that three to five. Um, I don't see how we can have a committee that doesn't have a set number of um of positions on it. I think it has to be either three or five or some other number. But I don't think
we can we can float like that. we have for all the years. So >> I think where it be become a problem is if you're trying to determine if you have quorum to have a meeting or not. If you don't have a set number of people on this committee, it can change the number
for the quorum. >> Exactly. Because the quorum is determined by the number of positions on the committee, not not the number of positions that are filled. >> So, how about we just change it to get rid of the minimum get rid of the three
and just have five members from the lake association. >> That would work. >> Okay. >> That's going to make it harder to make a quorum though if >> we usually don't have a problem with making a forum. Okay. I mean, you know, we have a pretty active group here or I don't think it's been a long time since
we haven't had a quarum. >> Yeah, it's a difference of one person in a sense. Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh so I'll change that to u just five members uh of Lake Association. Um, one of the members uh has to be on
the board of directors of the wild. >> No, LWA. Tom, you have a question? >> Yeah, I have a several. Um, associate members uh usually for B bodies are members who
can step in to become active voting members as needed. So to define an associate member as non- voting is contradictory to what an associate member is by definition. So I think that needs to be ironed out. If the associate member is going to be an associate
member the way they usually are in a committee, for example, if you can't achieve quorum or people have to recuse themselves, that's when associate members step in and take on an active voting role. The way this is described, um it wouldn't need to be included. This would just be a professional or expert
guest could always be invited for expertise advice and have a non- voting role. But associate members aren't by definition non- voting in case. So >> I don't know if if you want to have associate members, just keep that in mind. They would be eligible to become
voting people uh as cases might arise. >> Okay. So how about if I just take out the word non- voting and just say associate member, make it safe, >> right? And I don't know what that entails for home rule or other things cuz I know it was a bit of a deal to get the associate members onto the
membership of the planning board. Um, and I know there are certain hoops you have to go through just to get the I don't know if it's only select board or if it also needs town meeting approval to add associate members to a group. Um, Walter is not currently an associate member which you have down in the table
below. This >> I was just I was just Yeah, this is a >> Yeah, I think that's kind of a theoretical. make sure that was also clear. >> Yeah, that was just for one purpose so we know Phil swap role >> right >> that that came up a while ago. >> Yeah. So just if we could iron out if
it's going to be associate members actually added to the membership >> just you know always keep in mind we would find experts as needed for things. Okay. So, I I'll change that to associate member. >> And how many? I mean, usually it's one.
Usually, it's two in my experience, but I don't know if you want one or two. >> Let's just do uh let's keep it simple. We go with just one. >> Sure. If it were two, then there's the task of filling it. Um and the other uh comment uh stems from
my position that we would do well to remember that Elwack exists for the whole Shubsbury community. We do not have secondary community districts or divisions within our overall town structure.
As such, town bodies would represent and/or a town bodies work on behalf of the Shootsbury community as a whole. Therefore, I would suggest that we increase the number of design to seven.
Select Board, Conservation Commission, Board of Health, Planning Board, Emergency Management Director, Damkeeper, and the seventh design would be a designate of the Lake Wyola Association. Whether the Lake Wyola Association would
choose to make their design a member of their board or not is for them to decide. By defining the atlarge members as members of the Lake Wyola association, we are not respecting that the ELWAC is for the Shootsberry community as a
whole. We are respecting that the Lake Wyola Association is an important member of the Shootsberry community when we say that they get a designated member onto this committee. And so again, I would uh advocate for
seven designated members, the six that you have here, plus an LWA designate. And then I would say plus five at large members of the Shootsberry community or four, excuse me, that would be four at large members of the Shootsberry
community for a committee of 11 in the end. Comments Um, so you're saying one member from the LWA and four members from the committee community at large >> from the I would call it the Shootesberry community because that
allows for them to be in Shootsberry or not. I mean, even on our zoning board of appeals right now, we have a member of the Conway community, but is also considered a member of the Shootsberry community, and they serve as our a member on our zoning board of appeals. So, I think if we said four at large
members from the shoot of the Shootsberry community, um there's a lot of room there for the select board to be able to appoint uh voters in Shootsberry, residents in Shootsberry, or other people who might apply and be appropriate. Um,
okay. I'm I have a different perspective on that and u and >> I think the members of the uh the LWA have a much more significant investment in in what goes on and on the lake than many other people or than most other
people in town. And I would be uh uncomfortable with someone who has no interest in the lake um uh and has or has contrary interest in in protecting the link uh beyond that committee on our
committee. >> Well, we need a plurality of opinions on any committee >> and but I think we we have a very we have a plurality of opinions here. We have a >> but you just advocated to exclude opinions from people who are not LWA members. Anybody who's anybody in town
can attend these meetings and participate. They can come in. We have we always have guests. Um and um u >> I worry it could be potentially even illegally exclusive if it wasn't a committee open to the Shootsberry
community. Well, if means someone could >> Could you just put another drop the LWAC LWA members to four and put one of general public?
You could be stacking the membership with a lot of LWA members and you know to be on the LWA you need to be in a certain part of town or you need to own certain property and it brings up equity issues. Well, I mean this is the essentially >> because we don't have a representative
structure in our town for one particular area of town and this is creating that >> that was that was this committee was created >> was created the the five members from the associate three to five members was defined at that point in time. >> Yeah, that might have been a mistake
then. I think we might be noticing now that this committee is not representing the sheets community. that's representing the lake community and that may or may not be appropriate. I'm asking but I have grave concerns that it could be considered not inclusive
enough. >> May you hear your hand raised? Yeah, if I can speak, I'm I'm not a member now, but the purpose of this committee was to be people around the lake. And as we found over time, people
from most people, it's hard to find anybody from the other areas that know enough about what's going on at the lake um to be able to provide opinions. And I think that's been shown recently in some of the committees, the voting committees
and things that are on that have gone on that, you know, um people who don't live around the lake and don't use the lake h have very different opinions. And there's a lot of discussion that, you know, somebody that never ever even
comes near the lake, you know, how does that stand up to people who actually live here and who's making decisions about people who live here? And that's all been part of the discussions over time as it came um for looking at it.
Thanks. >> You have your hand raised. uh hard. >> Yeah. Um let's just consider all the work that LWA does and its vested interest in the lake. I mean, we wouldn't know
uh about the milloil problem is if it wasn't for LWA activities. And so I worry about disenfranchising the people who are most actively invested in the lake if we were to do
this. Um I mean just think if I if you removed three of the LWBA members from the committee now what impact would that have? So um I don't like this suggestion at all. I
think we should keep LWBA representation at um four to five members, five members ideally. Uh those are the people who are involved, those are the people who are interested, those are the people who do the work. Uh and needs to be coordinated
with that work that gets done. Okay. Eric, >> yeah, I would I mean I would agree that the um that the what everyone's saying about the L the Elwack is sort of the the committee about the lake and for people at the lake, it's a way that that
that that's what it was created for. Um, I would also say that that just practically if we have a situation that requires us to have members from the the the committee at large community at large, I honestly don't think there'd be that many people interested in it. So, I
really don't I I think that realistically if you know people, you know, whatever they they want the people at the lake to take care of the lake and be be responsible for the lake and so forth. They they not not they don't like people with a labor like that but they they
just don't have any interest in it. >> Thank you. Katherine, you have your hand raised. >> Yeah. Do we have to actually um make this designation? I mean it's not like people are just going to appoint themselves to the committee. the committee it members are appointed by
the select board and they are presumably going to give preference if if there is um competition which I very much doubt uh to people who do have some kind of connection with or expertise at the
lake. I'm not sure we need to we need to be so strict about defining these memberships. of >> Tom, excuse me. >> Yeah, I would agree with Katherine. I think you have more freedom and the
reality probably will be that people who live near or use the lake more than people who don't would apply to be on the committee. And that would mean they would likely more likely be LWA members than not. My suggestion would offer a designated role for the LWA's
involvement and wouldn't exclude the possibility that more LWA members would be either among those designines or among those members at large. I would point out that in 1991 when the committee was formed. The mission statement read, "Lake Wyola is a source
of enjoyment for the Shootsberry community and its visitors and it should be maintained for its multifaceted recreational and natural values. and you will not find the phrase lake community and the lake community only showed up in
a revised mission statement I believe in 2017. So again, this is why I feel it's very important to remember this is a Shootesberry committee about a Shootsberry resource and we should be careful about not including all of Shootsberry and our language even on
this video we should be mindful of. There were many people who have come to other committees such as the erosion task force and the boating safety committee who do not live near the lake but who have passionate interest in the lake. They use it, they boat on it, they swim
on it, they water ski on it, but they don't necessarily even live in town. So, the community of the lake is a very big community. And I just want to be careful about not or actually even possibly offending people who might hear on the
recording of this video that they don't get it because they don't live near the lake. I I don't think that's fair. I think a lot of people do get it wherever they live. Yeah, I have a concern that the select board would appoint someone
to the committee that wants to constrict access to the lake for a town for the rest of the town >> based on what do you have that concern? >> That sounds is there a base for that concern? Well, my um at the at the
uh the last town meeting, you proposed that to prevent prevent people from uh prevent families from using the lake, effectively preventing families with boats from using the lake on Fridays and Saturday on Saturdays and Sunday
afternoon. With all due respect, my motion was to include a period of time from 2:00 p.m. until sunset on Saturdays and Sundays when no motorboat activity would be at a speed greater than headway speed. >> That's exactly right. >> I don't remember putting families in my
motion. I do take a little bit of offense that you're adding >> ideas that were not expressed by me. Well, but that that was in effect what would happen is that families, working families who only could come up on the weekends
>> would lose access for recreational activities to the lake for the afternoons, you know, the when the sun's out, when the weather's nice. Um, and that I mean that wasn't maybe your intent, but that is in effect what would
happen. And what is wrong with having an idea like that? >> Um, for which about 40% of the people actually voted. I wasn't here today to discuss this motion from last May of 2025. >> I'm imagining you might be here to
discuss that, but I'm here to discuss the fact that this committee membership does not read as an inclusive committee membership for the community of Shootsberry. That's my point >> and my is that how can we guarantee
that whoever gets assigned to the committee is has the interest of of the people who live around the lake and I don't think we can guarantee that. >> I don't know how you can guarantee what any member of any committee feels or thinks that
>> how many positions would it take of the general public to help balance this out? If we did 4 LWA, one general community, 3WA, two general community, >> that's good.
>> I mean, we got to we got to find a mediate mediate this and and come up with something that makes either nobody happy or most people happy. I mean, >> um, raise your hand first. Uh, but let's go
with Art. You're muted. >> I don't know that there are a lot of people out there outside of Tom who are unhappy with the way things are working now. And in the name of making um the committee
>> I'm happy I'm not unhappy. the way in the name of making the committee more inclusive. Uh Tom's proposal is to make the committee exclusive of um L LWA participation.
I think things are working fine right now and we have a lot of people in the LWA who are concerned um with what's going on and and who are active and >> my proposal does not say to any LWA
members >> and I think we need to continue to have uh LWA active participation in LWAC because LWA is are the folks who are doing the work around the lake.
>> Mary, you have your hand raised. >> Yeah. Um, so I kind of I kind of agree with um our for doing that. I think I don't think the membership structured as this says any message to anybody that they're not welcome to come and to apply
or to come to the meeting um at any time. In previous meetings when I was on the committee it many times when there was discussions to be had it was opened up and people who had an interest came to express their interest in the committee. It's never been a limiting
committee. Um, I also think, you know, limiting the people from LWA from being on the committee would significantly deter people from even wanting to belong to LWA, too.
Um, you know, their belonging and being members to work on all these committees is based on, you know, their commitment and their long-term commitment to uh to the lake. So thanks,
you have your hand raised. Yes, >> Mary. >> We would not be if we if we took off the LWA requirement from some or all of these memberships. That does not mean that we would be excluding LWA. They could be filled those positions could be
filled by LWA members or not. Right? So we're not we're not making it more exclusive. We're just making we would just be making a little bit more inclusive. And I would think that if we if we I think uh Walter suggested maybe
three three uh places could be designated for LWA and two of them could simply be open positions that could be open to anyone or regardless of their membership in LWA. That seems to me like a reasonable
compromise. So it could be WA members if but nobody else wanted to fill the position and it could be somebody else right >> on those two positions right >> um I'll offer one more take on that we could cap it at nine have the seven
designated members that I mentioned where one of the designates is LWA and have two undefined members Um, so what we're suggesting here what the suggestion is I not say that we're suggesting uh is that we have I'm
a little confused what time is suggesting >> I can repeat it if you want. >> Um right now we have five sort of LWA members. You're suggesting to change it to >> I I I would make two suggestions. Either an 11 member committee. >> Does that include the associate
membership? >> No. >> So So we're saying 12 effectively. >> No, we're saying 11 associate members aren't considered in that number. An 11 member committee. >> Yeah. >> Seven designes. >> The six that you already have listed, one LWA designate.
>> Yeah. And if it's an 11 member committee with seven designates, I would say one LWA designate and four at large. My other suggestion would be a nine-member committee, seven designates, including one LWA designate and two at
large members. Either of my suggestions includes atlarge members being undefined. It does not exclude that they could be LWA members. It does not require that they be LWA members. Uh and my preference would be in the
interest of flexibility here is to say three three W LWA members and two at large positions if that's if at large is the right word. I'm I'm just really concerned that having
too many people potentially having people who have no interest in the lake making decisions for the lake that that's my concern and I think it's a valid concern. You have your hand raised. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just see no necessity for
making this change to, you know, limiting it to one designated LWA member given uh historically why and how the committee was created and given way the committee's operating now. Uh
where's the need? So, I I I I will oppose I will vote against any proposal that uh limits membership to a single designated LWA member. >> And I I I would Katherine go on
>> that. Once again, that's not the proposal. The proposal is for those those memberships to be open either to um LWA members or to non-members of LWA. >> I think I think Art wants to answer.
>> Uh Art, do you have a hand race? Yeah, I think uh under Tom's proposal there there is a single designated LWA member and everything else is is at large and um given the given the active
participation in LWA in LWAC I find limiting to a single designated member and everything else being open to be unreasonable. So I can't support it. Okay. Um, not sure how to move how to move forward
here. I uh um I could I could retract this uh or I could propose that we vote on it as is and see what happens. I mean, no one's going to be not everybody is going to be happy no matter what.
Would a compromise be three and two of those five? Three designated LWAC members to open to the general public. Not exclusive of anybody. So it could be filled by LWA. It could be not filled by
we have one LWA slot right now that is open. Oh, >> would would that would that >> could we ask the town council for an opinion about whether it's legitimate not to have just atlarge members for the
community or only to have defined NWA members as the atlarge members? Um, I can do that. I can send this off I can send this proposal off to I guess Haley who would then send it off to town council and get their opinion. I think
it's worth that's that's probably a worthwhile um worthwhile to do. >> That underlies my fear of liability if we don't have a committee that's inclusive enough or that's unduly or inappropriate. So,
>> um how about how about we how about we go down that path? Well, let's let's assume >> I'll make a motion that we table this discussion till we find get feedback from town council on the proposed membership as it stands versus
some kind of change to it to make it more if necessary legal. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. All right. So there's a motion to get town council opinion on whether um
membership as proposed is is inclusive and legal or is is legal. I think that's we're asking the lawyer too. Um um okay uh any construction of that proposal
>> for that motion? But do you need a second? We know we have a second. So, we should have a discussion about it. Okay. No, being there's no discussion, let's vote. Uh, Len, >> yes. >> Uh, Bob,
>> yes. >> Uh, John, >> yes. Uh, Katherine, >> yes. >> Art, >> yes. >> Howard, yes. Mark is yes. Tom, >> yes. Uh, Eric, >> yes.
>> And Walter, >> yes. >> Okay. So, that's that's what we'll do from uh and I'll get that off this week to uh get uh Haley. I think we may be cutting any
need like an hour and a half. Um, I don't know if we get cut off at some point in time, but let's just uh uh let's go on to uh item number nine, which is uh items that did not least be anticipated prior to the meeting. Is there any other items that we like?
>> Not at this point. >> Hi, sounds good. Thank you very much everybody. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn. And uh we do roll call ahead. All right. So the motion on the floor is to return. Motion by
>> Tom seconded. >> Lenny did >> I len? >> Yes. >> Um Bob, >> yes. >> John, >> yes. >> Uh Katherine, >> yes. >> Art, >> yes. >> Howard,
>> yes. >> Marcus, yes. Tom, >> yes. Uh, Eric. >> Yes. >> And welcome. >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you guys very much. Our next meeting will be uh I don't know my
my calendar here, but the third >> the same in March. >> It's always the third. >> I mean, it's the 21st. >> 21st. >> Okay. >> May 1st of March. >> Okay. Thank you everybody.
Thanks. Take care. >> Thank you. >> At 9, >> thank you everybody. >> Bye. >> I'm going to end the meeting. We're all disappear.