So, I'm going to jump off the meeting. Okay, there you go. Change of lines. get here ahead of time and start to figure this stuff out. Used to be safe to the Turn. How are you walking in the ceiling?
>> Yeah, just move it up here. This is the host. This is the blue. talking. Can you hear it? If I pick it up, >> can you can you hear it?
>> I think they leave written instructions on how to assist. Thanks. Good morning. >> Did you say something? >> You never use this before. >> No, >> never use a very healthy motion. Can't help you.
You miss. Get fix again. to see Dave again. How are you? >> Morning. I want to do it. I know you haven't
yet on a couple people in the waiting room. Eric, can you hear us? Can you hear us? Click in my computer or from a wall direction. Watch me. Why don't you talk? >> Hey, Eric, can you hear us? >> Yep.
>> Okay. So, support me. >> Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can. >> There we go. >> Amazing. >> So, uh it seems that I can't log in. So I do all the other comes from my computer and not from the the system
here. So I'm not going to log in. I think I can let the thing come from here. Um so it seems like it's working for everybody. >> We need a 12-year-old in this committee who can run the run all the stuff.
>> System is complicated. I had it down. I was going to start taking some uh notes here. Um Mr. Goosey here. Um let's see. It's taking me a couple minutes for Derek Carrie Smith.
Uh Mark Walter Catherine Har is not here. John's here. I was online. Uh Lenny is not here yet. So as for guests we have Jennifer Wallace
we have Mary the question is here. I um >> Hello. >> Or should I There's a chair. >> Someone else is just
>> Okay. Oh, here it is. >> Okay. Was anybody else online? I can't believe my >> have a question. >> Judy Ruml here. >> Yeah. >> Judy. >> Yeah.
>> How do you spell your last name? >> R E M E L. I think right um surprised how they're all sarcast here today. Uh we wait that I can see
um do we have publicly uh introduce everybody? >> I'm gonna go through and introduce everybody just sorry we're here we're all right. So, um, on committee, uh, Len's here, Bob Douglas is online, Don
Gory's here, Katherine's here, Art is not here today. Our Kinder's here, Mark is here, Tom Stever is here, Jerry Smith is here. Uh, Eric Stock is online. Sam Walter Tibbitz is here. Yes, we have Jennifer, Mary,
Tracy, Ron, and Judy. Did I miss anybody? Okay, cool. Settle. We're ready to get going here. Oh, that's the idea is we're supposed to review the agenda. Um, and so, uh, we're
going to start the meeting. It's like 9:03 something like that. Um and uh I'll review the agenda which is uh public open the meeting the agenda which we're doing right now public comments uh
review the minutes of the February 21st meeting an update on the committees uh with an update on the Lake Wyola wershed site business uh discussion of bombing private roads going to lead that discussion uh just a
brief update on management activities at the lake road forward. Uh it's good to feel our discussion on community membership and uh items recently participated as the meeting and u
we have one guest show up. >> Okay. So Melissa make peace. Okay. All right. So, if it's okay with them, let's start with the review of the minutes uh from our last meeting.
Couple copies over there. Actually, >> Mark, you've got somebody in the waiting room also. >> Oh, right. Thank you. >> So, we have to list here. This is the
>> Yeah. I'll be back. Um, has ever had a chance to review and is there any corrections that that need to be made for the minutes of February 26 meeting? >> We do those after or before we move to
approvals. >> Well, yeah, you make you make any changes on that before you approve them. You can you make the motion to approve technically seconded. Then you have discussion. >> I'll move to approve the minute of February 26.
Second motion Eric seconded discussions. >> Yeah, I had um few little corrections on number six under committee membership. Um the Tom also suggested that we change
the membership from five members from LWA to one member from LWA and four members from the Shbury community at large. >> Actually um Okay. Yeah. >> And so you had a couple of >> Yes. Yes. It was one member from the LWA
floor. >> Yeah. >> And uh Okay. So that's how you mean that. Okay. >> And um then Yeah. So I guess that's it. uh just the word town council in the motion section just it should be co it's uh s
okay I'll make those corrections anything else that I've noticed and I'll make those corrections and send them off to actually phone anything to web committee now until we have a you know trip I'm
sorry. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you, Mark. Now you should have to vote on it. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we're going to approve the minutes of the February 26 meeting. Uh Lamb
is right. Can you do that by raising hand? >> Okay, good. Thank you. I was sure it John. >> Hi. >> Catherine. >> Yes. >> Howard. Howard. >> Hi. >> Okay. Marcus. Yes. Tom.
>> Hi. >> Derek. >> Yes. >> Eric. >> Hi. >> And Walter. >> Hi. >> Excellent. Hi. Good. Did you get pass? >> Yes, he did.
>> Second vote help. Okay. I think so on our agenda is u refam activities. Does anybody want to cover that or I can call if you like
that? Okay, let me jump start out. This this is where we are right now. Um um we have a civil engineering company under contract to design work. That design work is is done. This is Well, let me back up. What we're talking about here
is temporary repairs to the dam. We all know dam sprungly last fall. Um, and that's why we lowered the water level to five foot level or requests or demand from the office of dam safety. Um, and as we started working on getting funding
and permits in place to do a temporary repair, the engineering company who's doing the work, not sure which face machine. >> Uh, so the engineering company's called GCL Springfield. Uh they are DM
engineering kind of group and they've been doing all the work for the DM. Um so that design for the temporary repairs is complete. Uh we have a a company under contract called T4. They're they're a big company that does
DM repairs and so they're all under contract. Um uh last uh last week uh board uh GCA and Walter and Howard, myself and Lynn were
at the dam and uh T4 guys we came by to measure the trash rack because we're getting a replacement for the trash rack. We think there's a track that trash rack got clogged up and that was primarily what initiated the leak. Uh
the trash rack was changed now in 2008. Um the old one was replaced with a new one which which has smaller spacing uh which makes it get clogged up more often. So part of the project is to replace the trash route. Um
let's see that should be ready that that that's that's currently in being fabricated and should be here in about 3 weeks. Um at that point in time we'll ask the conservation commission to uh issue emergency certification to work on the
dam. Um so when once trash rack is all set, we'll we'll start repair the actual repairing of leaks and uh that should be about a four-week process if everything goes well. And uh then we need about a
week to refill the lake. And so about seven weeks the lake should be back out in theory. any other the reason that we're waiting the 3 weeks to go for the permits because some people said why don't you go for the permits now is because they have in the
emergency permitting it's 30 days to do the work and if it's going to take three weeks to get the trash rack we want to make sure we have everything in place before we go for the permit and have to do it two or three times >> which is smart because the timing of that if you didn't do it that way then
you would have to do complete permitting set through notice formal notice and file it >> then the transportation commission issue an extension to the emergency certification they don't know well >> Bob do you know
>> uh I I I believe they issue another uh emergency >> okay so if for some reason you know we they had a lot of rain and they didn't get the work done. It doesn't present a huge problem.
>> Yeah. Out of necessity, I believe it could be accommodated. Correct. >> Yeah. So, I'm a little bit a little bit confused because you're using the term lease. So, I'm feeling like you're saying that LWAC who's in charge of this project. >> Tom,
>> we are only in an advisory committee, >> right? Yeah, that's why when this William is using the term we I always this group here just facilitates things and keeps things moving along. It's pretty much our role. >> Do you know the um you said they'll
raise it back up or something like that? The water do you know to the winter level to the summer level? Do we >> uh I don't know the answer to that. >> What to the level? >> Depends on depends on the timing winches and months. When do you usually start bringing it
back up how it is? >> On the end of this month of supposed to be up by the 1 of April. >> Okay. That's what it would be. If if if the repairs are done after that point, then it's bring it back up to the floor. >> Later because of the ice not being out,
the ice should be out by the end of the month. >> Okay. Um, another aspect of the dam repair is that GZA is uh applying for state funding. Uh and so they've asked from Hatton other organizations I assume
but they asked us to give a uh give them a letter of support for the dam which Katherine and I worked on and I think I emailed out to everybody a few copies here just basically say we're just the idea
of repairing the dam this Any questions on the other comments? Sarah Tracy, >> is there a choice here? I think you're saying that we're supporting is showing that they support repairing of the dam. Is there it seems to be that
there's no choice. >> Yeah. Let me uh I think that I should have said we support getting funding from the state to repair the dam. >> Gotcha. All right. and GCA has a group that that's that's probably primarily
folks getting grants. So instead of someone in town trying to muddle through it or having professionals do it >> and with any grants they always like to see letters of support of groups that are involved in it regards to whether we're going to repair it or not. That's
where I would >> you have your hand raised. >> Yeah, thank you Mark. Uh I just wanted to say thank you for forwarding that letter. I thought it was very well crafted. Uh, so kudos to you and Katherine for putting that together.
>> Thanks for the question. Sorry, I got lost in it. Is this for the repairs after the temporary repairs? >> Oh, I believe so. >> Okay. Sorry, I didn't catch that in the conversation. >> Just so guest here understand what's
going on. We're doing a temporary repair of the D and we're using we're using we're using money from the county from uh a fund a grant that I got a little while ago and um so this but it's only a temporary
repair. Um this after that though we have to do a much more extensive uh dam evaluation. It's called phase two inspection. Um uh and it's going to be require much more extensive repairs to the dam including the spillway. Uh and u
that's going to be a much much bigger project. I don't know what the number is but it's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it's basically rebuilding the dam again. Um and so I believe that is for that. It's
for that. Any more comments or questions? No. >> Um, is it going to mention whether we like made a statement together about it? Because I was surprised that it was only
signed but could it maybe say markers on behalf of the LWAC or would it be wise to put a sentence in on March in case it goes this way on March? >> Well, today we voted to send this letter to authorizeformational.
Okay. >> The letter's already been sent. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay. >> So, >> I'm sorry. I don't think I caught that either. >> It was like it was being brushed. >> I was wondering why that was the case that the date on the top. Okay. Thank you.
>> Sorry, I missed that. Well, >> okay. The last aspect of the dam is uh at our last meeting we've uh Howard requested that we buy a new staff gauge and then place it by the dam so we can give visual visual indication of the
depth of the water. Um John Kinder uh went out and got quotes uh they pulled from us about $900 for a large staff gauge. Uh I I then asked Ken to check into our budget to make sure we still had our $1,000 budget and our $1,000
budget disappeared uh somehow. Um and so we don't have any money, but California Board of Health has graciously offered to contribute $1,000 uh to pay for the staff gage. So, it's just a matter of uh of ordering it and
getting it on site and so that maybe we can put it in while they're working on the dam. >> And Mark, they're going to restore our budget line and they're going to rename it Lake Wyola Advisory Committee so that um everybody will know whose line that is and they won't just go knocking it out,
>> right? They thought it was just a sort of dead budget line that nobody was using. We used to uh he used to use it for like water testing, deep eye testing. >> Yeah. And sometimes for equipment >> I use it for getting get parts for the
uh testing kits. A lot of the uh deep water tests, so calibration standards, things like that, pH standards. Um and so we never used it. Uh you know, we sometime sometimes we used it, sometimes we didn't. And I guess they we didn't use it fast enough for us,
>> right? Oh, we'll be good to get good to go for next year. And when does the new budget take effect so they would know? >> July 1st. >> July 1st. >> Okay. Um, so there's no justformational get
everybody up to speed on where we're going. Any questions about the dam? Okay. Uh next item is uh agenda is the uh lake update on the lake wershed uh site
visits. Um and actually ask Jennifer if she doesn't mind you. >> I think you're muted. >> Yeah, here I am. Hi everybody. So, uh, yeah, you're probably all aware that, um, the town got a grant from the rural
development fund to fund a hydraulic and hydrarology study of the Lake Wyola watershed and and folded into that is a special geomorphic study of the Fiskbrook area. Uh, the town and the
Lake Wyola association each contributed half of a 10% match for that grant. So the firm that um has been hired to do these engineering studies is GZA, the same firm that Mark mentioned. The town has a good relationship with them on a
number of projects. It's a separate team that does the hydraology studies. So they've been pouring over reports and doing data modeling and so on since uh they got started, which was probably in November. and uh had planned a site
visit to meet with a bunch of us to look at places that were identified in the watershedbased plan that Furcog wrote and that our storm water uh task force had identified as kind of hot spots for sedimentation.
So after reviewing all those reports, they were eager to see them in 3D and we had to delay it a few times because of snow cover. But yesterday we went out, we spent about four and a half hours with them, which was great. And we
toured many um many locations both on the west side and on the east side, also on the laurels and up on Wendell Road as well. Um the the thought all along has been to look at where the water is coming from the uplands that is
influencing and draining down to the lake in a variety of locations. So it was pretty thorough. They took GPS readings of several locations, many many notes. Um their report which is due not
only to give a kind of state of state of the watershed uh assessment of where water is flowing from how to anticipate big storm upcoming storm events. But it's also going to have conceptual
um designs for various mitigation measures that could then be used to move into the next phase which would be prioritizing projects based on those recommendations and seeking funding for implementation of those projects.
So that's the update on what happened yesterday. There were uh I was there, Mark was there, uh two reps from the Lake Wyola Association were there and two engineers. So, it was a productive day for sure. And um we're really they
were grateful to see, you know, especially now with the lake down, they could see a lot of places where sedimentation is being delivered from up on Locks Pond Road or up on Wendell Road down directly to the lake. Mark, I hope I caught that all, but um
>> Oh, you did you did an outstanding job. Great summary. Um any questions for Jennifer? Tracy? >> Yeah, Jennifer, did where were the um the areas that were most impacted by sediment? >> Well, let's see. There's two on the west
side, I would say. Um one I can't, you know, I the exact addresses. There's one over um near number 66. There's another one near 24 Lake Drive. We trace the water from Locks Pond Road all the way down. We
also looked at roads like King and Birch and um others. Uh there is pretty pretty significant erosion that goes on off the laurels. It is kind of channeled, but that overflows. And also down at the end of Shore Road, we looked at that one,
too. Hey Jennifer, thanks. Um, you had said the GCA report is due and then you can say more. Were you going to say a date or were you just announcing that it's going to be due soon? >> Well, it's not due soon. It'll be it's open because it's depending also on
weather. They the engineers said that they really would like to get out on the water and see things from the water point of view. They have a boat, which is amazing, but they do have a boat. And um you know, the water level would have to come up for them to do that. Although, we were saying it's it's maybe
a good thing to go on paddlecraft while the water's still down because you can see more when the water's down than when the water's up. But I believe that in the timetable that was in the grant application to the rural development fund, they were hoping for a November
report date. >> Okay. >> And that was de the site visit was delayed, you know, more than a month and a half because of snow. So, I think it's a little fluid, but it won't be anytime real soon. In the fall, most likely, if not early next year.
>> Okay. >> Any questions? >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> All right. Next item, the next agenda item. Um, this is a item that wanted to put into the agenda. And it's discussion
of flying and s roadsulated by Bob sent me and I sent everyone um uh copy of the current policy paper here. They all emailed to me a couple days ago.
We'll let Bob start off the discussion and see where it go. >> Great. Thank you very much. Um, at at a meeting I was approached by a resident who um uh brought to my attention that there was a an issue with plowing on his
roadway. Uh, so I did kind of a deep dive into it um to see what um aspect the uh lake whale advisory committee might have. um the um and really while
there's a lot of uh different facets to this, I think probably the one that is most simple for uh the assoc, the uh uh advisory committee to uh comment on would be the nature of the road. And um I think from a factual standpoint um
that uh that that road has existed for a long time. It hasn't ch you to my knowledge it has not changed hands. has not changed deeds. So, um my request is quite simple that um uh the Lakeu
Advisory Board recognizes that Birch Birch Drive uh has been a road for uh you know third of a century and or more and continues to to be one. So that uh that was it's my recommendation for the
uh the ELWAC. Uh um any comments? >> I do Tracy. >> Um yes, I I I met with Haley. Um so the determination letter that was sent out to this resident who happens to be here
today. Uh the first um part of that determination letter, that's what Mark's referring to is that that's what he thinks should be dealing with. Uh Haley had designated um this end of Birch Drive as a shared
driveway, which um is uh a mistake. I I asked her how she she determined that. She said, "Ben, I'm looking up the data shared driveway." And she was citing the law um that she, you know, interpreted
I think she had a conclusion about who um was. So um by doing that in actuality what she was saying is that the road is not that end of the road was not
actually a road. It's a shared driveway between two residents down there. one home being vacated and one home by um but of course ownership somebody's but we were supposed to go to
>> not sure where that's >> yeah Eric you might want to >> mute is background noise >> yeah hold on a second sorry basically >> um so the the point point being that
BR not a shared driveway based on the assessor's uh road map. Um and if anybody wants to see it, Ron's got copies of it. So I think what I'm understanding Bob's saying is that he would like the Elwack to take a vote in
and concurring that the end of Birch Drive is a road owned by LWA that they pay taxes on as opposed to a shared driveway owned by Rome. Is that accurate, Bob?
>> Yeah. No, I honestly I think it's I agree, but I I believe it's easier than that and that there hasn't been a a status change of that roadway that this committee is aware of and and therefore it's it continues to be recognized as a
road. Uh Mark and I did take a look at it uh earlier this week. We walked down there and um it uh you know it you know it's it its status hasn't changed. It's its ownership hasn't changed. I've seen no documents uh to the contrary. So
that's uh that's that's a simple uh ask of of the this committee >> as an advisory committee to the select board. the Lake Wyola Association or the Lake Wyola advisory committee. Um it's my
opinion that this be referred back to the select board to the emergency management and to the department into the highway department that there's never been a precedent set by the by this committee as long as I've been a
member here since at least 2008 or 2009. This seems to involve potential legal matters, potential public safety matters. So, it while it's something that is is something that could be brought to us to
take a formal vote to that relates to to properties to land owned by the Lake Wyola Association. that this seems to be a matter that should be resolved between
the road owner, which is the Lake Wyola Association, the resident, and the various public safety committees of the town involving a third party contractor who is contracted by the
town. So, as a committee member, I don't feel that this is something that we should do more than refer it back that we've heard the concern for this, but that it should be referred back to the
appropriate town of Shootsbury officials to act upon and to try to to try to make an opinion as a committee that the town administrators definition or interpretation ation is
not really our purview and what our mission is. >> I agree with Terry on this. I don't think that this is the the a role for our committee to play. >> It is a bit outside of our scope.
>> It involves third party contracting. That's and a lot of other legal and public safety matters that not that it's not a concern that Mr. M could bring forward, but it this really isn't the
what this committee is involved with. >> You have your hands. >> Yeah, thank you. I just wanted to respond. Um the uh the town's legal board, the town's uh public safety, the town's DPW, they will all make their
decisions. We're not taking anything away from them. uh just simply as a advisory committee that is familiar with the lake uh we are just I'm asking the committee to say uh we it is it has been a road for a third of a century and continues to be a road based on all the
information that we have. So we're not taking anything away from any of those boards. They still have the ability to make their decisions. Certainly, we don't make decisions for DPW or any of those others, but we have been asked to uh uh chime in on this and uh um by a by
a lake resident. And uh so that's my recommendation that it simply be uh recognized as a road as it is on the deed, as it is on the map, as it is on the the the town's uh system. So that's uh simply what I'm what my recommendation is.
Where is it? >> Um the first uh charge of the LWAC is to serve as liaison between the town government and the lake community. So to me that means that this falls under the
purview of Elvar because the community member is looking for this committee to act as a liaison between the community of the lake and the town. He's a community member of the living.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um >> I just wanted to add that um shared driveways are part of the zoning bylaw. So if there were a shared driveway, it would be reported somewhere. Um and as far as I'm aware, nobody's found any written documentation that anything
there is a shared drive >> foundation to it whatsoever. I mean >> there's no foundation. >> There's no foundation to it whatsoever. Um, >> it's a comparatory and capriccious evaluation. >> If there were a shared driveway, it would be in the registry somewhere is
all I'm saying. It would have had to come across the planning boards. There would be a record of it. >> And one of the points of the decision is that if it it doesn't have uh uh public access, which is not true. That in itself refutes the complete argument
they have because it's 501c3. We know that all the all Lake Wyola Association property is open to the public. >> Well, I'm looking at the criteria here and it says the road must be open to the public, not be a shared driveway. Um, right.
>> And I wanted to ask Bob if that's okay. Um, is it a fair paraphrase of what you're saying, Bob, if we were to use the language of the actual policy? Um because I heard your language Bob saying that you would support or ask us to support that this is a road but I
wondered if according to the policy we might it might be changed to um this is a road that meets the criteria of policy 010925 specifically because there's that statement here the road must meet all of the following
criteria >> or is that not a paraphrase >> that would be Uh, I believe that would be a more accurate and succinct way of of phrasing it. So, I would not object to that as a an amendment. My own association pays taxes on that
road. This is an assessor's map. Um, again, I'm as a committee member, I'm not here to dispute an opinion that was made by an individual. It's for the other members
of and officials and committees of the town. I make a motion that the Lake Wyola Advisory Committee acknowledge acknowledge the discussion in the
information provided to us involving the town's bylaws related to plowing of private roads. >> The bylaws, >> it's a regulation. policy not bylaw >> it's a policy
>> I'm just clarifying >> was it adop it was a policy that was adopted by the town >> right it's not a bylaw that's the point you said by >> sorry so so to get back on track here that lakew advisory committee
acknowledge the and and has discussed the policy of plowing of private roads in the town of Shootsbury and that no formal vote be taken as to defining the diff the defining whether
it's a roadway or a shared driveway and that it be referred back to the to the appropriate town officials. and legal counsel of the town to try to resolve
with the resident and the third party contractors that are involved. Have a second to that motion. I'll second for discussion. Third motion, Walter second.
And so now we should have some discussions about a motion. >> Curious how to vote on a motion not to vote. just wanted to say >> no it's I mean basically what I'm saying is we're acknowledging this letter as a committee and
that because of you know the various things that I mentioned previously public safety matters legal matters you know property ownership matters that involve a totally separate you know organization that it's not you know that
while it can be brought to us that you know there's there's There's nothing formally that we can can really act upon other than to like any other thing make a recommendation
for it to go back to the appropriate town officials and legal counsel for the town. That's why the town has a line item budget and it's appropriated by us all residents of the town to, you know, to fund when things come up like that.
That's why there's an item in the budget for legal for legal counsel. >> Do we know if the town council contributed already to any of this discussion? >> I answered that. >> No, I asked Haley. She did not have a
lawyer read the letter that you sent out to. >> Uh father's question. Uh let's see. Uh Bob, I'm not sure who came up first. So Bob's on top. who will go first. >> Sure. Thank you, Mark. And and my my desire was not to get into the weeds on
this. Um again uh uh people who are in DPW and and other people can certainly opine on this, but I thought as a I believe as a uh Lake Wyola advisory committee uh who are the u the uh
proponents of lake residents to the town. I think simply and I'm not talking plowing. I'm just simply talking um a acknowledgement of the roadway. It's a a finding of fact that's well supported by the uh the deeds, well supported by the
town's own mapping, well supported by the, you know, 25, 30, 35 years of history that this is indeed a road. I I I don't I don't support going down what other groups may say about it or or or anything like that, but I do think we as
an advisory board can advise the selectmen that we've uh taken a look at this um and and do make the finding of fact, which we're allowed to do that this is a roadway. >> Eric, >> oh yeah, thanks. Um this is a very
confusing issue. I was speaking at from the select board side of it. I mean, the whole the whole issue in town in general about unpaid uh not town owned roads is a big issue. I don't know if people have lived in town long enough, but this is something I remember a town meeting or a
special meeting with the sweatboard probably 20 years ago, maybe more about the roads down by um toward Ammeris that are privately owned and and it was it was just a dog fight. It was unbelievable. And um we're setting this
up to be this again, I think. Um I'm a little bit afraid of that. Um I mean, in terms of the the things that Terry talked about, I mean, the the um the highway superintendent, for example, has already opined on this. I mean, he's
very clear that this is not a town road and not a not a plowable road. That's his been advice and what he's said to the select board. Um there are also issues about um the size of the road, whether or not there's it's
wide enough. Um they say that the road has to be I think it's 14 ft uh 10 to 12 clearance and it's 9 and a half. So there are issues. >> That's not true. >> Well, okay. I I'm not here to debate that. I'm just telling you what they're saying. Um,
>> right. >> And there, yeah, that's all just this is a classic example of why, as I say, it's it's a it's a rat's nest to try to figure this all out. Um anyway, the the other point I would make is just that
the the historical notion of things I mean if in fact the town has been doing plowing and so forth for all these 30 years or whatever it's been it I'm not make I'm not making this opinion but it is also true that if if it's the if it's the wrong thing it doesn't mean the m
the town could have been making mistake for 30 years is all I'm getting at. I'm not saying they are. I don't know. I'm I'm a little bit um on the fence this whole thing trying to figure it out. Um anyway, I I probably confuse things as much as anybody else. It is a confusing
mess. It really is. >> Jennifer, >> uh I just want to go back to u this is a matter of uh procedure I guess. Uh so so if there is a there are questions
about uh the road being an official road, a designated road. Um there has been a map introduced to the meeting that identifies the road on the assessor's maps is that according to open meeting law when a document is
introduced as a meeting that become at a meeting that becomes part of the official minutes right to regardless of how you vote I think saying that the Elweek has received this map from a community member at the meeting and it has been looked at by everybody and that
this map showing knowing that it's an assessed road should be incorporated officially into the minute. So I was hoping that that um that could be done just as a matter of process. Thank you. >> I could scan it
the missiles but that's a good idea. I might have missed that. Um so we have a motion on the floor right now uh that says basically to to acknowledge that we had the discussion um we've seen the map we've seen the
policy for plowing and that I'm praying here but that we are referring it back to the town and uh the town the resident and the third party contractor to to figure it out. Am I allowed to say
something? Including Yeah, absolutely. Right. >> Including legal counsel, >> including these legal >> town council. You're you're allowed to talk. >> Well, I mean, I I have an issue with going back to the very sources that made this uh erroneous determination in the first place and how
that might change anything. And I think Bob's intention is to is to make an additional point and framing it as a as a residence issue is is erroneous as well. This is not a resident issue. It's a Lake Wyola association town road issue
that I happen to live on. So even even referring to it as as a as a residents shoot is incorrect. The res the resident's issue is that the town isn't fulfilling the contract with the Lake Wyola Association to plow the roads in the winter. It's that simple. It's not
open to interpretation. >> I think the contract for plowing is not with the association but with the town. at Baker >> the the contract for plowing is with the town the town the LWA I'm pretty sure >> yes >> well the LWA owns the roads that the
town policy >> the town pays town pays the contractor and the contract is with it was with the contractor now >> ever actually actually doing it the fundamental agreement is between the town and the lakeola association
right >> the lakeola association is the property property owner, not to be confused LWA, Lake Wy Law Association with LW LWAC, Lake Wyola Advisory Committee,
>> right? >> So, so to and to clarify my point when I spoke of residents to to clarify that being a resident like you of the town, Miss M. McNottton and every you know other people that are here. I'm not when
I said when I spoke and said residence issue, it's a it's a resident residents of town of Shootsbury issue, not an individ not your individual issue. Mark,
>> can can I get some clarification on what the agreement the base agreement is about plowing PL private roads because I don't know that >> rest of the town >> I uh didn't get that. >> Well,
can somebody just summarize it quickly for me? >> If meets one through six, it'll get plowed. >> Okay. or sometimes the list of >> pre-existing >> that's not here in front of us but
>> on that list >> oh I would have to yes I think it is >> is on the list it's also also was on the list uh that temp hunting sent out year after year after year and of three hard copies which are available I don't have
them two of the two of the three years Burst Drive was was listed as needing no work at all and the third year was listed There's maybe some some grading. There's no foundation to it being unplowable whatsoever. >> No. Isn't there Isn't the issue though,
Ron? It's not the top pl is where the where the road ends and your driveway begins. >> There is no driveway. >> Where is it? That's what the map shows. You've got it in front of you. >> There's no driveway involved here. >> Okay. >> I don't know where that notion never
came from in the first place. And when I first when I first brought this up on January 1st when suddenly after since 1989 250 times probably the road is plowed suddenly it's not plowed and then all of a sudden it's this dangerous uh
dangerous road looks like it's off the edge of the edge of the planet. Uh there's there's no foundation to it whatsoever. It was a decision is a decision by the person plowing the road that that he didn't want to do it anymore and he was given permission to do it. That's all there is to it. And
everything else is made up and my my reputation takes it point by point. They have there's no foundation to their argument whatsoever. But again, this isn't just for discussion purposes. I'm just providing I'm just providing >> and listen and it's a little complex
because prior to this policy being adopted by the town and the residents of Shootsbury in it looks like September of 2001 that the Lake Wyola
Association's property subdivision plans go all the way back to like 1930s. So the ownership of the that's a the map that was provided to us at this meeting is simply a a map of the GIS from the
GIS system of the assessors. It's not a meeks and bounds survey or the map of the act that exists for the actual ownership of the lake y by the lake yola association. And that's why I think this is like a really complex matter for the
residents of town of Shootsbury could be precedent setting because there are other Lake Wyola association roadways just up the street from their house. There's a roadway that doesn't continue and go through that was blocked off by someone privately. Not all of the Lake
Wyola Association private roadways are plowed, maintained or or anything. And we don't know as a committee and I don't feel comfortable. Are there encroachments into the into this road private roadway
that may have like made the contractor, you know, bring this forward to the town. There's been changes in plowing contractors through the years over the 30-year period that this has been plowed. There's it's a it's a complex issue. I agree with you.
And there's, you know, the policyy's clear, but this is something that if legal counsel hasn't been brought in, that's important to us as residents of the town of Shootsbury to resolve because there's so many private roads in the town. >> Some some of the lake that get plowed, some that don't get plowed, right? meet
this >> right on behalf of two more questions here and comments and then I think we should vote on the motion and um but so let's go Tracy first she had her hand up and then Mary >> first of all that map is the assessor's
map that they use to charge um the uh lake whale association for taxes so that means that the town has officially declared that area the roadway there's No, that's a fact. So,
what Terry's having to say is that there's some changes that could have impacted that. No. As far as the other aspects of the determination for not plowing, which by the way, I think a significant point needs to be made that this happened mid- winter when nothing
could be done to change anything and a resident who's in his senior years was cut off from plowing. So, that's that's a problem. Um, this committee is supposed to be a liaison and here from what I read with their your first charge
to be helpful to the residents of the league community and I'm not hearing that here. >> We are being >> I'm not done. What I'm not hearing here is any
possible solutions to how this committee can help Ron Mech be sure that his road is plowed so he can leave his home in the dead of the winter and so that the emergency vehicles can get there safely.
That's the B. We are helping because we're referring it back to the appropriate and no position taken by any official has >> has sent it to the town legal council which was included in my motion. >> I'd like to stop the discussion now. I'm
going to get turn over to Mary and then end discussion and vote on >> motion >> motion which has been made and seconded and >> which included referring it to legal counsel. >> Yep. in the area. >> So just after listening I don't think I
mean I think all the points are valid but I don't think it's within the scope of this committee to decide what's valid, what isn't valid, what should be, what shouldn't be. I think it needs to go back to the people to make the decision which is back to the select board and the town administrator or
whoever it is. So um not saying that it's not valid but it's not the it's not up to this committee to decide that it's valid or not. I I don't think it is. >> Okay. Uh if it's okay, I'd like Oh, Bob, I guess you had Do you have your hand raised?
>> Yeah. Anybody off, but I want to move on. >> I I I I just wanted to say that um uh again, we went down a rabbit hole that I was not intending to to to go down. Um just simply acknowledging that this is a is a road I think is within our advisory
capacity and is clearly supported by the evidence. So um the people that make decisions on on legal things they they will do so uh our opining that this is a road is is uh just simply our advice to
the select board. So I I regret that it took this turn and uh I wish it was more simple. So I will likely be voting against the measure. >> So that's okay everybody's coming out. Pause the thing. Um
uh let's vote on uh Terry's motion. So the motion is basically that vertical we've acknowledged we're acknowledging that we discussed it. Uh we've reviewed the policy and we're referring it back to people the town LWA legal counsel the
resident third party contractor to work through >> including legal counsel. Yep. Right. So we'll get on to this. Does every does anyone have any questions? not comments but questions on the on this motion. You can pass or not pass since it's good.
Does anyone have any questions on the motion? Okay. So, don't be no questions. I'm going to go the same I always go. Um Len, >> yeah. I would like us to vote on So,
>> no. So, we we're voting to say we're to say we're voting to say a yes vote. Correct me if I'm wrong. A yes vote will say that we're basically going to refer it back to the college to be no. So, you're so L says no.
>> Okay. >> Uh, no. >> John, no. >> Or you could also abstain if you want. Gathering. >> No. Art is not here
voting >> on the mo on Terry's motion. Yes. >> Terry said yeah it says basically yes. >> So a no vote means you don't >> no against the motion you bring it back here for a vote again. That's >> we go to the original we go back to the original motion.
>> Well that was never seconded. >> There is more. >> Oh there was just a just needs to make a motion. Well, let's let's finish up here, please. >> Y >> I guess you said yes. Okay. Yes, I understand what you're
>> say. Yes. Tom, >> no. >> Says no. Terry, >> yes. >> Uh, Miss C. Katherine says no. Uh, Eric. >> Muted. I'm gonna abstain just because I'm one
of the people involved here. So, it's just >> not my Yeah. >> Hey, Walter. >> Oh, no. >> All right. So, um so the motion doesn't The motion fails. So, um uh photo one,
two, three, four, five, six nos, one abstain, and three yess. >> Mr. Chairman, >> yep. >> Yeah. I'd like to make another motion, a new motion. >> All right, hold on a second. >> Did we get a second there?
>> We don't. >> He hasn't said it yet, has he? >> So, Bob, what's your motion? >> Yes, please. Uh I would like the uh Lake Royale Association to acknowledge that uh based on history uh existing maps and
other evidence that uh Birch Drive is a road. >> Mark, just as a point of clarification, it should be the Lake Wyola advisory committee, not the Lake Association. >> I always get that wrong. I apologize. Yes, Lake Advisory Committee. So the
bond has a motion that we are going we're going to vote on since simply safe we as committee acknowledge that Birch Drive is a razor road. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. That would >> should we say Birch Drive in its
entirety? >> Yes. Oh, >> because there's a question on I think the big question is where does Birch Drive start and stop or not where it starts but where does Birch Drive stop and in some people's opinion it becomes
a shared driveway after that point. So by the maps and all evidence it's we say it's a road in its entirety. >> We like reference like one map dated back years. >> Well the assessor's map. Yeah,
>> I'm not sure if the assessor's map is several. >> Yeah, this is the exact map that's on the assessor's website and the town's website when you go to look for the land use, >> you know. >> Yeah, but if I look at that map on it doesn't show my driveway doesn't show.
>> No, but this does show it doesn't show the driveway, but it does show Birch Drive as it was accepted when the subdivision was made. >> If I may, it's the same map that you'd find at the registry of deeds. I was gonna recommend me refer to the registry.
>> Well, I think I'm about sensors are not always right. I live on private road, old Egypt. I own onethird of it. I got deeds for it. The town says and everybody that lives on it owns to
the middle of the road. So that doesn't make any >> valid point. >> Can I raise a question? Sure. If it's not a road, why why was it plowed under the policy for 36 years
hundreds of times? >> I mean, this that's ludicrous. >> I don't think any member of this committee could answer that for you. >> Yeah, I don't think we can answer that question. Um, >> the only we didn't have 10 o'clock. Want to move on here. Let's vote on on I don't want
to cut off discussion, but I think we're just kind of going in circles here. We're not resolving. I'll second Bob's motion. >> Okay, we have second hands. I'm second. All right, so we have a motion. Correct me if I'm wrong, Bob. I said Bob says,
as Lap, we just want to acknowledge that Birch Drive is a road. >> Yeah, let's keep it simple >> in its entirety. Was was >> that was just a suggestion, but it's his motion. >> Well, we can add that now. Am
I allowed to say anything about the motion? >> What >> am I allowed to say anything about the motion? I don't really understand what my >> if we can quite sorry >> brief and we can and you'll be the last item last >> I would add >> and therefore it's subject to the town
policy at 090125 and should be plowed as all other roads. Bob, do you want do you want to modify your >> Yeah. No, honestly, um I I I I think keeping it simple is is the way to go
and uh um the uh the policies are are others to enforce. Um but we can offer our opinion as an advisory committee uh you know go between between the town and the uh uh public uh lake public to uh do
this kind of thing. So I would say uh um we'll keep the um motion as you stated it Mark in place. >> All right. So let's let's vote on it. >> All right. So the the motion on the floor is simply to say that LWA acknowledges that first drive is a road
which is way Bob wants to put it. That's the motions. Um and so let me do another column here. And >> all right. So now we're going to vote. Um, >> yes. >> Yes.
>> John, yes. Catherine, >> yes. >> It's not here. Howard, >> yes. >> Mark, yes. >> Tom, >> yes. >> Terry, >> abstain.
>> Okay. Uh, Eric, >> abstain. >> Okay. and Walter. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, so props attentions. >> Okay. >> Great. Thank you.
>> That's all. Well, I'm sure. I think that's all we have to do is I can put in the minutes. Do we have to? >> I don't think so. So I think well let's put in the minutes as when uh as a motion was this motion was made and it was passed with by voiceful two
obsessions >> has his hand up. >> Yeah. I just uh I apologize. I'm going to have to leave. That's that's all. I'm not running away. I just want to make sure >> make sure everyone knew that. But I that's all I'm leaving. >> Okay. All right. Sorry.
>> We're going a little longer than usual. >> Okay. >> All right. So, let's let's uh go on next item item seven, which is the beaver management uh beaver dam management at Lake Road. I think Lenn was going to the last meeting
was going to check with the highway department to make sure they're going to keep an eye on it. >> Yeah, I asked uh I asked Dave during the last emergency management meeting what's going to happen as beavers start showing up. basically set a defense on the tower. So that's what the town wants to
do. >> So that's basically word for word what he says. So >> So he's going to refer back to someone in town maybe cards. >> Yeah, there was I I was watching one of the meetings last night just I think in one of the things he said was well you
know it's legal trapping in November. So if it's if it shows up and they start making a dam in November then we'll go get the permits and trap them and then we'll remove the dam. But that's that was about the extent of what he said. >> Oh, so take advantage of the legal
season, >> right? And when you said Tad, do you mind him at the com or the select board or do you know what did he just >> and I informed them that the state can outs
>> right and we can trap out of season here just by getting a a from the board of health which we have always granted. But he said the only time is between November and April. >> No, that's not correct. >> Unless it's an emergency, right? Out of
season. >> Yeah. I mean, >> there's a line on the permit that says emergency explanation or something, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Right. And of course, it's always an emergency. >> Well, yeah. Why would they ask, >> right? >> Given the world watch show. Yeah. That is a potential big emergency. I mean
there were sink holes forming and it's like you sat on the dam with the block of the boulders for a year sink holes are forming. I think when I think maybe if we as a group or you know just keep an eye on things you
watch when the jam is starting to form if we see something uh say something to uh Dave and let Dave take it from there. I mean, I think they would want to get it removed as quickly as possible because it makes it a lot easier. Then after a year has been after >> Jennifer raised her hand just so you
know. >> Then after a full damage road damage. >> Comment from Jennifer. >> Um in in attending the select board meetings around this uh Beaver Dam situation. It's my understanding, it should be clarified with Haley, that the
town is pursuing some kind of a memorandum of understanding with the Pinebrook camp that they would um take some responsibility in keeping an eye on what's going on with logs that are getting rolled in front of the culvert
and also removing them because it was in their interest to keep that passageway open for their campers to to move in. So, a move, you know, enjoy the lake. So, I just double check to make sure that I'm not sure that just the singular
policy that that Dave is talking about here is the only one because I do believe that the town was pursuing some kind of relationship with Pine Brook about it. >> Yes. >> Any other comments? Anybody can start
the beaver jams. Okay, excellent. Um, next item item number nine on the agenda is discussion on the committee membership. Um, we had uh we had a healthy discussion last meeting. Um I
incorporated some of the comments there. There was no sort of consistent comments as just spoke to. Everybody had different opinions. Uh so I incorporated those into the um I current membership plan
proposal uh which I circulate to everybody and which um I have you know go over real fast. Um the current proposal is um is to have a member from the select board member from Kong, one
member from the board of health, one member from planning board, the emergency management director keeper and five members uh from the lake association, one of which one of which should be on the board of directors and an associate me uh member appointed by
the subboard additional technical expertise and analysis. In that case would fill that role of justice expertise in the dam I'd like to put a motion on the floor. >> Yeah. I would like to take a little step
back from this because I've remembered after all these months that where this started had to do with defining who counted as a Lake Wyola Association member among the people who are actually
town officials. And that seemed like an important thing at one time in this committee that there should be a sort of exclusive policy regarding um Lake Wyola association. And I I I kind of think
that we should we should address that specifically. If we no longer think that that is a valid concern, I think that maybe we should vote that that's is no longer a valid concern and we're not going to try to limit the number of
association members on the board and try to count who's who is one and who isn't one. I don't know if that seems like something that we should do. Um I mean possibly uh one other thing that that came up is that at the last meeting Tom
thought we should get legal counsel as to whether the committee thought we should raised the issue and you know was I want to give credible credits to um and so what I did is I sent this
offens council to look at this and make a decision and say we don't need too because and because we're an ad hoc committee, we can have any makeup of the committee that we want.
>> And so uh so it didn't go she made the call and uh uh and so in her mind uh representing there's no issue with having five specifying five members of the lake
association on the lake advisory board. >> Do you have a she emailed you? Yeah. Could you share that with us? >> Sure. That's all. I didn't I just think I' brought that up here. If you want, we can I can
circulate that around. >> So, I'm understanding here that this committee was established in 1991 as an ad hoc committee, temporary committee with a with a very limited charge. And what I'm hearing you say that it has
never been converted to a standing committee in 30 years because clearly it's a standing committee. >> Clearly. >> No doubt. >> Hey um not disagreeing with you but it's my understanding the select board has never changed to a standing committee.
>> Have you ever asked? >> Never asked. Never knew. I never knew the difference. >> Never occurred the difference. >> This is a problem. I think that this needs to be tabled until that gets resolved. That this a problem because as a standing committee likely you cannot
restrict membership to one subgroup. So this needs to be resolved. You can't have an ad hoc committee for 30 plus years. >> Thank you. Uh Jennifer, you have your hand raised. >> Hi, it's me again. Uh so I have an
interest in this in my role as the town's coordinator on storm water erosion issues at the lake and Elac has been a great resource and a great supporter of many things that we've tried to initiate. I just want to
point out that five Lake Wyola members. So because the membership fluctuates number one and number two if we counted everybody up I would say that a majority of the members of the Lake Wy association are seasonal residents
whereas knowledge and expertise of what's happening around here in the wintertime as it apply or year round actually as it applies to my interest which is storm water erosion that if you're going to vote on five members and
and you say and one should be a board member. I believe there should be a number of those five that are year-round residents and not seasonal residents because that perspective is sometimes not um shared because the vocal people
are are seasonal people. So, I would request that you revise that to include a few um year- round residents. Thank you. >> Please let me take a look at that. So right now we have Art who I guess is seasonal although he comes out all winter long. I don't think he's
seasonal. I think he's tell harder to find but Art is definitely is iffy. John Gory is year round. Terry Smith is year round. Mark Rivers is year round. Before that we had David Green on the committee
and since David L resign Mary David like to join the committee and she's year round. So in fact I I can make case that everybody she wrote. >> What I was referring to Mark was the five Lake Wyola members. >> That's what I that's what I refer to.
>> Okay. Because you counted yourself but you're the chair. You know there are some dual roles member. >> There's there's options dual roles here. >> Yeah. So >> which kind of goes back to Katherine's case. >> Yeah. If you're going to have roles that are there that are members who are outside of some of the other roles like
emergency management or board of health or whatever, I would request that some of those five be year-round residents. So, you can count them as you wish or discard the comment. But I think that's an important perspective that's often um not there, not shared. Thanks,
>> Mark. May I speak to that? Um, I I I take your point, Jennifer, and I think that's important, but I don't think that we can dictate to another entity who they should recommend for appointment to the committee. We can certainly suggest,
and that goes the same for the board member of LWA. It's the it's the association's prerogative to choose the members and recommend them to the select board. we can state our preferences, but I don't think we can really say that
these are the requirements. Also, I would suggest that so we've got six places for town officials, right? Um, and it seems to me that compared to that, having three dedicated places for
people representing the interests of the Lake Wyola Association would be the adequate. And then we could have two that would be basically unrestricted that the select board could appoint anyone they want from anywhere in or out
of town, right? Which would bring in some other perspectives but without taking away basically local control. Just to expand on that, um, you know, Katherine's and Walter have been on this committee and John probably longer than
I have, but I've been on the committee since about 2008 or 2009. There was a period of time where there was no representation from the select board conservation commission. The board of
health always been this and and Walter was on the the emergency management. There's other committees in town to dictate that someone has to be your year year round resident or seasonal resident. You have members on other committees in town who aren't year round
residents and they hold very like authoritative positions on conservation commission or where they I don't are there other committees in town that
that have non-year non yearround residents. you know it doesn't I think you know go my understanding of this from and how I got onto this committee was an individual who was involved as like a like in the formation of this in
the 1990s basically took me to the meeting recognized my background and what I could do and that I could maybe be a contributing person I wasn't a year-round resident at the time okay and and so from a technical you know from
that standpoint and And at the end of the meeting, he simply looked at Bill Elliot and said, "This is my last meeting. I'm resigning and I'd hoped that the select board would consider the appointment of this individual to sit on the advisory committee." So that's how I get on to the committee.
the select board if someone approaches the t approaches them to become a member of this committee it's their job is to who that who they consider to appoint onto the
committee. So like for us to really say someone has to be seasonal year round or or whatever it is, it's just the makeup of like what this committee is made up by and whoever might have an interest to be on
the committee who represents one of those boards or the Lake Wyola Association, it the select board can say we don't want that member on the committee. We don't want to appoint them, right? It's not our charge as to who gets appointed.
So if the select board who's the appointing committee felt uncomfortable with someone because there's look there's histories of people here that are on this league for generations that have more probably more vested interest than someone who might have just moved
here a year ago. I don't think you can say that. >> Well, well, but they're not seasonal. You know, they might be they're seasonal per people that had been here for generations that have an attachment interest in the lake maybe more than someone who >> I would leave it as as much as
potentially on >> who was a resident year round that might rent a house. >> I think what you're saying also speaks to the um issue of again going back to what I was talking about at the last meeting. Why stipulate LWA membership at
all except for one designate from the LWA board? Because that speaks to exactly what you're talking about. People might be expert, might be dedicated, might have super knowledge. They might not even live in town and they perfectly good member for the LWAC. >> I think might not even be an LWA member.
People just don't know who might have really good skills. And so to limit that by saying only LWA might be shooting in the foot in a way like we could find great people but if they're not LWA LWA we can't ask them to
join. You know what I'm saying? Like we we I I would rather go out of the philosophy that you're talking about. We just don't know who will have great skills or be a great match for this group and the select board gets to decide that. Well, I think it's important that there's that
there are specific LWA members for a few points. Just one that was brought forward to us involving property ownership and the call for us to be the liaison committee between a property ownership interest of the Lake Wyola
association and in the committee. The other thing is is the Lake Wyola Association has for what our charge is for preservation and care of you know interests of the league does fundraising and does different things that they
>> lwa. >> Oh okay. >> You know and they have monies that are used for some of the things that this committee has an interest in. >> Sure. But so does the Sierra Club. So the art society. I mean like I just I I think I would say we would achieve that
by having one designate from the LWA board. >> Uh but let's uh Jennifer has a question and Mary has her hand right. So let's go to Jennifer first because I think your scanning was upwards. >> Okay. So I just want to say um Terry I was only responding to what I understood to be the proposal that Mark read which
was five at large members from the Lake Wyola Association when he read off the other affiliations. So it was a proposal to add five and restrict that. Okay, it was restricted five Lake Wyola association members and I was proposing
that some of those five could be should be if you're determining other things narrowing it for various reasons you could say yearround residents. It is up to the Lake Wy association to put names forward because they're members. The other thing that I just want to say is
that it's really Elwack thinking about what what representation you need to fairly be the liaison between the lake and the town. And so I would think that you would want some
year- round representation outside of the those that have official roles like chairing the meetings and whatnot. But that's up to you to decide, of course. You know, I'm just saying having some year- round people is a perspective that
in my mind is super helpful. So, I'm hoping that that that's the way that you'll receive my comments. I wasn't trying to limit it to full-time residents or not. Just that that's a valuable perspective. Thank you, >> Eric.
>> Yeah, I I think I mean this has been here forever. It's worked. it works with the having the association members to get their commitment to to being able to do this. Um I don't really see a reason why we need to change something that's been working um the way it's set up with
the committee at that. >> I've got I've got a comment here. Go ahead. >> I just want to make a point that um the Lake Battle Association is a 501c3 um charity. It is not a homeowners association. So everybody that lives in
the Lake District is not obligated to become a member of 501c3. I mean like none of you are obligated to become members of any 501c3 public charity whether it be Ottabon or Sierra Club or anything. So, um, and and also like the
the Lake Bio Association doesn't have the right to release the names of their people who have members. It's it's not, you know, they don't have the right to release that information. So, we're talking about like proof of whether or
not you're an LWA member or not. In addition, anybody can donate to Lake Wyola Association. You don't need to be a member in order to make a donation to contribute to their their cause that you may think is um a cause that you think
is worth contributing to. And there are people that live over at the lake who make donations and there's people who don't who make donations. Um so yeah, saying that you have to be a Lake Wyola association member um is not only
restrictive in taking an entity within town and saying only you can be on this committee and is a town committee which I believe should be a standing committee but also you can't prove that anybody is now the only way a member because they don't
have to there's no membership card there's nothing >> there's a membership card >> there there's membership list they have list. They're not allowed to release it. They >> That's not really She has really remained to the conversation. I have a point.
>> I really feel strongly that the this committee needs strong representation from the lake community and the only way to do that is be is to have them have affiliated with um the Lake Wy
association. Now, here's here's the reason why I'm saying that. There was a case where the conservation commission uh was made up number of people and there but there was no lake representation on Kong and so Kong was writing policies for the lake and the
policy that they wrote that we're writing working on basically in effect would in actuality have eventually removed all the houses from the lake because the policy says if we're within 50 feet of the lake they can stop you from doing anything to your house. So if your house burns down,
can't rebuild it. You or you have to rebuild it outside the 50 foot buffer. And many houses don't have that space. So uh if you want to put a deck on, they can stop you if it's within 50 ft. If you want to repair a deck, they could stop it because it's within it's within
50 ft. So that that was recognized as an issue and that was changed. So now there's Bob is on concom and Mayor Fox is on concom who live in the district um and who can fairly representative. I argued those points and I was ignored
with the con before I was ignored. uh I mean uh they because I wasn't a member of the committee I couldn't contact him I couldn't vote uh and so basically I was ignored and uh so that's why now in this proposal that we have here is that
that I think Tom was suggesting there is nothing that prevents the select board from putting on someone unrelated to the link a friend a friend of a friend kind of thing they could absolutely do that within their prerogative uh and that person so there's no
guarantee that they would be uh would have the best interest of the lake at heart and that's why I think we have to stay with the current makeup of the committee it's working >> that's not what I said I didn't think I can say you said that >> oh I thought you said that Tom said oh
I'm sorry >> I'm that was my that was that was I was hypothetical situation I think the notion you hear was and people have said it in the past oh the select board won't uh appoint someone who's you know who
like or has different opinions and there's no guarantee of that. There's no guarantee who they're going to pick and um and I feel really strongly that we need strong representation from the white community. Uh we don't have total control. I mean there's if an issue
comes up and the uh con select board have opinions and they can vote one way the association members can vote another way and you know because it's six to five um it would pass and so we're not in total control but we but the more people we have that can that have the
interest of the lake that are unlike that happened with concom uh better off we were we will be uh Terry maybe to try to address the cons. I have a question for for
Jennifer because the makeup of the board originally the the storm water management is an is a committee. >> Uh yes >> for the town. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That committee did not exist when the structure at Elwack. It's very important
committee to have representation in my opinion on the on Elwack because there may be some need for what's coming up for the analysis and the work that's being done for the storm water around the lake to maybe tie into what might be
necessary with the phase 2 dam work where there to instead of seeking separate grants for dam repairs all of the work that's being prepared by the storm water management committee related to that. So I would ask for some
discussion or thought about adding that. The second is >> if we not to interrupt Thomas on that committee. >> Well, I wanted to add that. Can I >> So I wasn't aware of >> can I um it might be helpful for you to hear what I'm about to say. >> Um I can hold on to it. I I have two
other thoughts related to the committee that was there any consideration or previous discussion that maybe instead of stipulating they have to be Lake Wyola ad lake Wyola association members a way
to reduce that to try to address maybe Tracy's point or people that aren't members would be to say that you know maybe L LWA4 might become um a resident like a resident there's representation
of the Lake Wyola zoning district because there was no zoning district that existed. There was only zoning within there. So if someone wasn't a member, they would have to be from within the Lake Wyola zoning district on
on that. So that might be a way to So I guess what I'm getting at is maybe you could have, you know, LWA123 and then you would maybe have two members from the zoning district as opposed to just being from the
association cuz they would have a vested interest in that. And then consideration given for the new storm water uh adding a adding a a a a representation of the stormwater committee because
someone like like myself or Tom like Tom is here he could be someone from the zoning district he could be someone from the lake Wyola association or he could be
someone from the storm water management committee right what is his representation you know on that so right now he's represented as a planning board member. So, you know, I I feel for what Jennifer is involved with that, you know, it
really should be maybe it's maybe it needs to be defined as that the as a chair of of a committee on behalf of the town or but it's hard because we've struggled through the years to even get
full representation here. So, but that I don't know if that gives some relief as to, you know, maybe reducing it and or changing it from Lake Waw Association member to
a town of Shootsbury resident from within the zoning district. >> Catherine, I I'm guessing Jennifer is going to say what I was going to say, so I'm going to wait till when Jennifer talks to see if I should talk. But go ahead, whoever. >> Catherine Catherine's got her hand up first.
>> Yeah. No, I was just noticing that we have or designate for all all the official positions. We could have we could say that the Lake Guyola Association could designate three members and they could be members three members of this committee and they could
be members of their their um committee or not >> their association or not, but they would designate them >> three members. Three members designated by LW. >> Yeah. Right. And then maybe two unrestricted >> and they still have to be approved by
the select boards. >> Right. >> It's good. >> It's okay. >> So, um I just wanted to say I support this uh some members from the Lake Wyola district. I think that that captures
people who have who live around here and have an interest in what's happening and could be draw people in who might not be active in the Lake Whale Association for any number of reasons but might have a real contribution to make to a group like Elwack. I also have always thought
that there's a natural home for the stormwater um person to be either part of Elwack or a regular visitor. I will say that currently, while Tom was on the storm water task force, as was I and Bob and a
few other people, uh the select board voted this summer to create a townwide storm water uh management and or mitigation and implementation committee. That um committee has not been appointed
yet. And what we have is in the interim is me designated as the coordinator for the town on storm water issues. So there is a an approved committee but it hasn't been populated by anybody just yet. So but I will say that I support
and would enthusiastically um be a participant in ELWAC's work as the storm water coordinator. And I think Terry's quite right that there is a natural role there. Uh so that's what I think. Thanks.
>> Did you see that as an associate member, Jennifer? >> I don't know anything about those statuses. I just know that if Elwack decided that having a storm water well currently the storm water coordinator for the town as as a member of ELWAC that I would support that. I think it's
a natural um alliance, but if it was as a regular guest or however you decided to configure it um but I can't I don't know anything about the difference between associate member official member but whatever you all decide I sign me up
>> right we could add a storm water committee person to the list of officials and have seven instead of six >> so they're a voting member is an associate member Are associate members non voting? Did we have we established that >> they are voting?
>> Okay. >> May I Okay. Um related to what Terry, Jennifer, and Katherine were just saying, um the SMIC, the stormwater management implementation committee, um was charged with nine members, I
believe. And so far, as of the last select board meeting where it was talked about, the town administrator announced only two people have applied. >> Oh. >> Um, of the members that are um in the charge, there is a slot for LWA designate and a slot for ELWAC
designate. So, it it could end up being interesting whether there's a representative from Smick on ELWAC or from Elwack on Smick. And I'm I'm worried it could get confusing and we might have to decide who goes as a representative to whom. Um but they are thinking in those terms.
>> Um there is a concern I think but nobody has said it I'll say it that the committee might not get enough applicants to form. Um there are options to reduce it to maybe it's at seven now and so they only have two and they're thinking of reducing it to five maybe to help or maybe it's nine to seven but
there's a little bit of um >> becoming involved and it hasn't really become something yet. So, uh, I guess I just wanted to announce that to let you know that what you're thinking is actually happening. And >> yeah, and I and I follow this. I mean,
the the that idea and Tracy was part of it. The idea of a, you know, a townwide storm water committee was something that probably originated from Elwack because it because of issues that of this committee because of issues, you know,
that were being brought forward to, >> you know, to us for the concerns around the lake and you know, and then at that point I say, you know, look, there's how many gravel roads around Shootsbury that are outside of the Lake Wyola zoning district that need attention too in the town seek going to need to seek grant
monies for storm res storm you know climate change and resilience and the studies that are that are here and you know and and look at the reports and the and the coordination that's gone on you know with f with fur cog and stuff
through to to bring it forward so you know there so I definitely think that having representation even though there might not be a full committee appointed right now but that us giving consideration for that committee as it
forms and becomes more active for the town's important >> and there's there's nothing saying that they can't come to a meeting without as long as it's an active committee. There's nothing saying that they can't appoint somebody to attend all the
meetings without making them an official member too. >> Yeah. Just about associate members. I would need to research it more, but my understanding is that they um are activated as necessary by the chair
during a meeting >> under circumstances that require activation. No quorum or maybe usually that would be their circumstance. >> Um >> or then they can be I'm sorry. >> Or if someone had to recuse >> recusing. Yeah. So there could be a quorum but a recuse that. Um, so then
they step in as a voting member for the purposes of the discussion or the meeting or the motion. So I did want to flag that it might be um I don't know if associate members are considered
to be experts or technical experts. I think technical experts are always available to the committee at invitation and um they wouldn't vote. They would just be advisory experts and associate members um would vote only when they are
absent to vote and just want to make sure we clear that up before they do the final charge. >> And there may be a process for actually um asking if a committee can have associated members. I'm sure any committee can or anybody but I didn't know some
>> well one approach here >> because it is a legal like it is a term so it's amending >> one of one of my interests to uh come up with a proposal here it's going to go to the select board they're going to want to go on side >> is this what they want to do it's a standing committee it's on committee
we're advisory we don't you know that's everything's told up in the year >> in from here >> but Katherine I I was just going to say, why don't we put a motion on the floor? >> I'm going to I'm going to move because because maybe we can narrow this down a
bit. I'm going to move that we that we um have a a roster of of roles here that includes seven officials um from the town, including the six that that Mark has on his list, plus someone from
either the storm water committee or the storm water coordinator that we have three members designated by the Lake Wyola Association coming from the Lake Wyola zoning district, right? Owning property at the Lake Viola zoning
district and three unre to make just to make this an odd number. Uh three unrestricted members to be determined by the select board, but that we would still have the um we we would still have the ability to to recommend that the
select board choose them. >> So that means you're recommending no Lake Wyola association members. Lake Wuola Association can designate three members. They can three members to this committee. They can be members of Lakeola Association.
>> Okay. So I miss So can you just repeat what you said again? Three, >> three, three members designated by the Lake Wyola Association resident or owning property in the Lake Wyola zoning
district. >> That doesn't specifically say so that Lake Wyola association members, >> right? >> They're the association is designating the representatives that they want, >> right? But it doesn't say to their point that they wanted it doesn't say they
have to be members of LWA, which is part of what this says now. >> Right. >> You know, >> right. >> Okay. I'm just trying to clarify because that basically says it it doesn't it doesn't really say they have to be Lake Wyola members, >> right? >> Right.
>> Just be recommended by the association and >> it would be 13 people. Is that am I doing the math right? >> Yeah. Okay. So what you're saying Katherine is just so I understand this is you're taking the zoning what I was saying is reduce
the number of LWA representation that's members and to three and then giving considerations for people who aren't members but are within
the zoning district. >> Right. What you're saying is that the LWA members have to reside within the zoning districts. >> Yes, that's what I'm suggesting. >> But you're not putting it. Well, the so
the difference between what you're suggest what you're suggesting and mine is that you want basically three at large town members to come on to this committee who wouldn't necessarily be from within the zoning district of the lake.
>> Right. Right. But they needn't be they needn't be not rep there there would be no restriction. They could be association members. They could be local residents. They could be somebody from out of town. If we're concerned about that ratio, we
could change it to say four members designated by Lake Association and two unrestricted. I mean >> I just say I mean I would I guess I was to get at reducing the concerns for you know what I heard related to membership
and and that was just to reduce the LWA numbers but just keep those say four and five you know to zoning district people. So someone who isn't a a member of the Lake Wy law association, they have to
reside just on the zoning district and then and then consider it, you know, in no con in consideration for W for an associate member like Walter's expertise is very important to the community, >> right? He could be one of these ones
that are unre that are unrestricted. Um, and obviously the people who are designated by the Lake Guy Association, whether there's three of them or four of them, would be expected to represent the interests of the Lake Wyola residents
and the association by they wouldn't choose them if they thought they were not going to represent their interests. But it would be their call to recommend for inclusion. I get I guess my failing would just be
to give you know the consideration that if you know change it it warrants changing the the LWA you know specific you know from five I think to go to three but that to Mark's point at the
beginning of of it that the vested interest to keep it so that two people on the committee would have to reside within the zoning district. So they would go to the select they could go to the select board as a resident of the town of Shootsbury independent of the
Lake Wyola association to become appointed versus the Lake Wy law association trying to appoint people who are you know who are their members and then having the like I guess I'm just trying
to keep it not mix the zoning district with the LWA members. We could simply say three or four depending on which we want designated by the lake association and not be specific about where they live. >> That's what I was thinking. All right. >> It's still a comp.
>> So we're just reducing like >> Yeah. Just the way it's done right now for five members. same for three. But then we're taking two of those and saying, "Okay, as a resident of Shootsberry who lives within the zoning district, we're going to open up, you
know, two two seeds for someone who are, you know, from >> so that should say foreign too cuz I think being equal or not being more aimed towards Lake Vaola Association, I would see that it should be either
four and two or five in one." >> Four and two. So, it's not a it's not equal or more than unrestricted. That's Tracy had a question too. Just go ahead. >> Yeah, I got a question. So, um, you know, some of these numbers are kind of clear in the head right now, but, um, it
seems to me that, um, what makes the most sense is that the community members, which are five at this point, I think maybe recommending six, but regardless, um, that the So, and there
is already of the list one designated Lake Wyola Association board of directors member in the in the original seven right? Right. We found that in there. >> No, that's RP is considered to be because that's
charge says an LWA. >> This 2017 charge says an LWA um um member as a as a as a as a board member as a as this D like board of health,
>> right? The seven pound town official. I don't think so. >> Hold on. I'll double check. >> I think there are only six town designates and then current WA members. I don't think it names LWA, >> right? Yeah, we don't have >> I know that last time they had discussed if there's any. >> So, here's what I here's what I would
suggest. Let let me clarify that for you on the charge rate. Um and and uh so >> so I think Katherine has a motion on the team before we >> so the membership standing right now is
uh does not include an LWA member as the the base of the party. That's right. >> We know that this is what this is what I would recommend. >> We have a motion on the floor. >> I know, but I thought we were still in discussion and I had
>> I don't think the motion has even been seconded. >> Want me to say something? You told me again. Go >> ahead. Go ahead. Finish up. >> Excuse me. >> Then we'll have them. >> My apologies. >> Okay. Um so what what I would suggest is that you know the the that there be a member from the LWA board of directors
be a position on the um just as you know emergency management and board health and then the other five community members not be designated as being chosen by LWA
because again that distinguishes that they have some sort of authority um over of the lake districts and and they don't and I also feel that you know the the lake whale association you know reputationally I think can be improved by including the community of
Shootsbury. So I feel that those five members should be it should say that five community members um and preferential treatment will be given by the select board to members pe residents who live in the Lake District
or people with other expertise that would um benefit the whatever we might say the environment of the the the lake and the um uh the charge of this committee.
>> Because I don't think having LWA be the the decision maker is is necessary or appropriate. >> Thank you, Mr. Trace. Now, we have a motion on the floor. We're ready to vote and move. I think I'll >> Could we clarify the A lot of discussion?
>> Where where are we with the the the motion? >> Um we've got seven officials, seven town officials. Um it seems to me that we're saying four uh designated by um Leguola Association
including an uh an a board member of the association. >> Sorry, >> we don't really need that. Yeah, we don't really need it because the LWA will say they want a board member on there. So that that's their call or they could say no. >> Okay,
>> so just say they designated by the LWA. Okay, that would be four and two two unrestricted uh positions that that well just that they would be unrestricted. >> So no vote at large me.
>> So so you will no correct me if I'm wrong. Vote yes. You're voting for the the motion which includes four designated positions, storm water position and three at two at large positions designated by the select board. If you vote yes
will be your proposal. If you vote no, >> we're back square one. >> We're back to where we are and then we're we're going to vote to table it because >> Yes. Yeah. >> Right. We've been here long enough. >> Yeah. I I I kind of like the original one. So I I prefer the late the late Wyola to have more representation. So
I'm voting now. >> That's all done. >> Wait till we start. >> You get me going. It's okay. >> Seconded. >> Uh Terry seconded. >> Okay. That's good point. I bring that down. Uh so Katherine,
this is the membership. Katherine motion. Terry second. Um, okay. So, are we ready to go everybody? >> A no keeps the existing. >> Okay, hold on. Uh,
>> we're still we're still we're still trying to develop this. So, a no puts us back to square one and starting to try a new >> but no puts it back to the structure that we have. >> I'm voting for a new structure. So, a no would mean you keep what you got.
>> Right. >> That's correct. the current the current. Yes. I mean that's not this >> the saying to >> Right. Right. >> I've gotta talk again. People keep getting dropped off basically. >> People been going on for almost two hours now. So I think that's why people
are dropping off. >> He just came back on and then he disappeared. >> We still have a forum. >> Oh. >> Okay. B. >> Yeah, you do. >> All right. We still have a quorum. Is the last we have Ardy and >> he might have just turned his camera off because this display doesn't show the
people who are on black screen because there are more than just them on the meeting now I think. >> Okay. We still have a forum. So we're okay here. I'm not sure how long the Super Bowl will last here. Um so so yes vote is to change the structure of the
committee to to cath leave it like it is for the time being. Um clear is everybody clear? >> No. >> So no Bob >> muted.
>> Sorry. No. >> No. Bob said no. Okay. Um, John, >> yes. >> Yes. Catherine, >> yes. >> Yes. Art here. Uh, Howard, no.
Art, no. Tom, >> no. >> A no. Uh, Terry. >> Yes. >> There's a yes. Eric's not here. Walter, >> am I clarify? Am I a voting member now or not? I mean,
Okay. All right. Cuz I I've been voting, but there was proposals that I wasn't. So, I'm just >> Yes, you are. >> I I'll vote yes. No. >> So, see? Yes. So, we have one, two, three, four yeses
and one, two, three, four, five. So, the motion. >> I like your idea, but I'm just not ready to >> Yeah, we need we probably need some more. Finally, I'm going to move that we table this. >> Okay, cool. This has the motion. So, we
have we don't have a solution yet. >> Um, and we have a motion from Catherine. >> I'll second that. It's really easy to do. Um and so um so uh we have a motion to basically cancel
the discussion. Uh L. Yes. Uh >> that's yes. Uh table discussion. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Terry.
>> Yes. >> Eric's not here. Uh Walter. >> Yes. >> Okay. So discussion now. We'll continue discussion on our next meeting. Now we need a motion to end the meeting. >> So moved. >> Second. Oh, no. Actually, we have
>> items cannot be. >> We have to finish agenda items. Anything not anticipated prior to the meeting? And I do have um Oh, wait. What? I apologize. The ice is going to be off the lake shortly. Uh and the water's down quite a bit, five feet down. Is
there any safety concerns that we have to think about with regard to walking around the lake or the fact that the water's down low? Um, my wife noted that when she was a kid, she tried walking along the lake when it was when it was low and got stuck in the mud.
>> We've had in history the fire department has had to gone and rescue kids that walked out with a boat ramp that got stuck in the mud up to like their waist. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what she does. She might. So, are there any So, so my question here is briefly we lost everybody else,
but yeah. Is there anything we want to do? There any any other concerns besides walking around the lake that we should be, you know, concerned with with the water down and no ice on the lake? You guys can think >> I I also could see the inlet of the dam
being uh getting sucked up to it, being able to pull yourself off. I was trying to pull off something the other day, but I couldn't. So, how we come down and turn the uh shut the gate just to get stuff off. So there's a lot of force
on it when the gates open. >> I was actually really surprised how much force is on it. >> Walter noted that there was one time he saw found the turtle large turtles. >> We found turtles. We found large fish. All kinds of stuff stuck to it before on
high flow which is why we have the buoys out. Maybe we should see about trying to get those out before the >> We do have trust no trespassing signs on the dam right now. But I mean I did see some footprints out there. I think people are faster. >> So fish. >> Yeah.
>> I mean, they don't even follow the buoys, but if they're out, it's another thing saying >> and there's signs saying, you know, >> no swimming under high flow conditions here. >> Yeah. >> So the from a safety point of view, much
is there anything we should be doing? But put signs out by the program. >> Yes, we do have signs at the dance or just waiting. So the experts, >> I mean, the best you can do is put some
signs out. Like I said, warning, we put the buoys out around the uh the gate and you know, >> everything else is at their own risk. I mean, >> we could sides, you know,
you know, some construction. I mean there there's something to that effect on the side of the building now. A large red white sign that there's two of one on each side of the building staging the d basically dangers of high flow
area. No swimming in the in the marked areas >> damn close for >> and there is damn no trespassing temporary closed for >> there. There is some of those out >> construction. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Would it be a town announcement worthy thing? Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
We the town announcement and maybe we could also um um ask the association to put out to their membership. >> Sure. >> Um the safety hazards >> I haven't even thought of it.
That's a that's a good approach. Um why don't you write up something? Why don't we write it up and get a draft going and you guys can edit it and then we'll someone get it to the final announcement. >> Right. It would be good if that came from you, Lyn. put like mud in the det.
>> I mean, I know I heard from someone that it's also bitter like you could hurt yourself on glass even because it's more exposed now like pieces of glass and other bitter exposed hazards. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. If it's okay there, buddy. We need
a motion. Uh I'll just write something else. Send it off. >> Thank you. can can uh can tweak it and u get it out to the uh to the town. >> Okay, perfect.
>> All right. Uh motion. >> So move. >> I John, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Mark, yes. >> Hi.
Yes. >> Walters. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Let's not believe it again. >> There was a big >> Yeah, there was >> and a big uh a big attendance. I don't usually have some >> um recording is just the recording is
still going. So, thank you for saying that.