##VIDEO ID:Zwp4P0md4Nw## e e yeah this is being recorded for public consumption by the way e e than e ni Tom I think everybody's takes a second to connect I think hi Tom how are you hi Matt good thanks how are you doing doing good computer's a little slow no worries I know took mine a little while to connect David Green joining here evening everyone hey good night how you doing David how are you Dave nice to see you give it a few more minutes see if anyone else is going to join one two three four five I think we did Define a quorum is Mark still there L Mark vaporized now we don't have a one two we were we were we were at we were at at at the point we can move forward not now wait it was a little delay in the um setting up the zoom calls but I think we finally got to the bottom of that I'm sure we'll get a qu it's only 6:31 right yeah is the um chief of police GNA join us tonight she's not I was give everybody an update she's actually has uh she's sick near Hospital status so she is not going to make it we texted earlier okay asking and I know Leonard is not going to join from the uh right fire department tonight I saw his email but uh she said she'll make it when she's feeling better okay but sounds like she's been out for a couple of weeks and progressively we gotten worse oh she's in contact though so that's a good sign in contact that's a good thing we'll give it two more minutes and then we can get going if that's okay if we have a quorum then and then when they join in they join in that's what I was thinking Mark how's everything out in southern states getting better down here hot again though yeah back up into the 80s down here that's War it felt hot here yesterday though didn't it yeah it's like 80 80 something here in Mass yeah places H 80 it's Judy there you go hi Judy mute well I'd say we uh we progress if I see people joining uh looking to come in I will make sure I let them in as we go so let me screen screen can you see the uh the screen yes did you start recording I didn't catch that if you did I did oh thanks okay yep it's a I believe it's recording hit it and it said oh I see it now yeah thank you co yeah no worries that way people uh need to uh jump in don't if there's a way can I make you like a a co-host or something so you could let people in or not I don't know if that's possible I think I might be a co-host but I don't know I don't get notifications if people are here I haven't just because sometimes if I'm sharing I'm not sure if I get all the I'll watch I'll be able to see if there's a I'll check hopefully we can figure that out by next time maybe yes yeah figured out all right so I could go down to the agenda here so for today kind of the things on the the agenda just want to review our approach I think we all kind of know it from last time but thanks again Tom for sending out the minutes and also sending out the link to our the uh the slideshow so people can have reference so I appreciate you doing that and that now was just to review again kind of our approach using our UE plan of attack usage Enforcement Education and recommendation and I thought everyone did a great job last last uh call you know respectful good dialogue good discussion um I didn't think we got too far off on any tangents and I think everybody uh I appreciate everybody's involvement and all the all the all the thoughts throughout the night so one of the things that I wrote down one of the things for me to do was to reach out to Michael Connors Michael Connor if you all remember was the individual who was involved in the accident so I I did speak to Michael and I let him know that at some point in time if he wants to get on our our call here and he wants to like to share any perspective that he may want to have that wasn't wasn't able to be shared during the uh kind of the shsb some of the very short shoots spy meetings that we had I just want to let him know that he has a forum here I'd be happy to let him have some time on the agenda and and share anything you want anything he would like um in our conversation we did talk about he just wants to promote both safety and education and awareness was one of the big things that he talked about and he was uh happy to hear that we had the the committee I gave you know the roster the people that were on it and uh seemed like he was really happy to hear that you know a lot of people that are near and dear to the lake on this committee as well as some of the Town Representatives so I'm sure he'll join maybe the next meeting but I did want to let you all know that I did reach out to him and uh in chat with him so and gave him an open invitation to come any anytime okay the LW or lwa I guess I can make that Lake wild boating and sa web page um they should have that up this week or next week is what I've heard from Judy so they're working on it I gave them that initial clip of what our summary was and if anybody had any Chang just so that we can uh we can make edits you know obviously once that once that's up and running but that was like a they needed something to be able to start it I guess but so be it I think it's a pretty good time um do you know the contact person for that could you say who that is I'll take an action item here and I will forward you the last train of dialogue okay you have it and and I'll tell them that I'll want to make you a co-owner on the web page as well how's that awesome thank you I got that as an action I'll do that I've been trying to just like Shuffle this stuff along and I'll I'll get I would love for you to be a part of it again if I can help Okay but it's right now it's bird dogging we do have a uh a committee email that will be able to put on the website I have it here and I'll send this do I'll send this doc out again to Tom that's go if you don't mind that we just keep keep sending them out to the teams um Safety Lake wbur.org is going to be the the address I sent you that Tom as well the uh I don't know if you're able to set it up or not but it's just like adding a Gmail account that I didn't open it because I just wanted to ask if you don't mind for one minute here um so I will go to Gmail and pretend I'm opening a new email but I'll use shots.org instead of gmail.com yep ask for the email I actually put in the safety lwell shp.org okay and I changed the password I sent you the password yeah and then it'll come up just like one your a new mailbox okay and I skeptical first when I saw the Oregon I was going to Gmail so okay now things like um planning board most boards have it set up that all committee members email automatically receive a copy of incoming emails shall I set it up that way if that's possible if you know how to do that I'm perfectly F yeah it will accept any email the person might have to do a confirmation um okay as far as I know especially if they're Gmail addresses it's rather straightforward yeah cop and it will it will save the original copy in the okay safety Biola inbox if you know how to do all that I will take advantage of it and then just to tell people when that starts happening please don't um respond to those and whatnot just take them in as information incoming but wait for replying until the committee meets yeah perfect people know that okay okay those are the uh the updates I had kind of as a starter here um do we want to talk about reviewing and improving the minutes from 1010 everybody get a chance to review those take a look at them would you like me to share them go ahead Mark all the only thing I noticed was uh the time that we ended thank you I caught somebody flagged that would go through or not but yeah yeah I copied the minutes from the previous meeting so yeah we adjourned at 7 pm not 7:29 or whatever it there attention to details I like it would have been a time [Laughter] work anything we need to discuss on the minutes or is there anybody would like to make a motion to approve the minutes I'll make a motion to approve them second heroic ey cord ey uh green ey Salvador ey raml I Rivers eye yeah emails are on their way or I mean the minutes are approved so good I did put in a few minutes for public comments if um there were any public comments I don't see anybody else asking to uh come in but I will open it for the floor in general if there's anything specific that anybody wants to comment on does it have to be the public by any means anyone have anything specific they wanted to talk about share anything like that I think mine will come up later in the agenda when we do the byla okay good enough all right we're going to move on from public comment then and then we'll jump into uh baw review so if we review what we did last time we talked about baw one the motorboats complying with the mass safety and coast guard regulations and number two we talked about speed limit talked about that had a dialogue around that so process I was going to follow is just continue to move through and talk about these and talk about concerns ideas education is there something we need to recommend um with these next several and we can uh kind of start there so everybody's good with that Dave go ahead um I guess um at the last meeting I had suggested that we were kind of stuck on the speed limit thing because there were some clarifications that we needed from the police chief y she's not here um are we going going to continue this discussion without her are we table it again I think that the fact that the issue was brought up that there was no one there that was truly there to enforce it there seemed to be uh some gray area there um you know the environment the police says no those are Town laws the state the the the the town says no we can't do anything um how do we want to move for with that if we're not going to have a presence at this meeting well I think it's a uh I think we table until we do have the presence at the meeting which based on my discussions or texts with the chief she plans to join these meetings so we will have an audience I don't think it's going to be non-existent but I think if there's clarifying questions I think that's a good time to wait until she's there and would that pertain to uh number three by law two speed limit within 150 of the shore um I think I think it's an element of it I think we still should talk about the you know 150 foot buffer I think we should talk about that in generalities here in a minute um Mark you have a hand up um yeah I was just wondering for the future is if we can get confirmation from the chief that she is going to be at one of these meetings in time to post an agenda agenda topic to discuss Ted topics with the chief um that would be nice just to make sure that when she if we know she's going to be here that we have designated time for that conversation with her um and then as far as the the five M hour limit um you know often that that'd be more referred to as Headway speed uh and so I'm wondering is is that something that we're okay with just saying you know five miles an hour is Headway speed doesn't need to be clocked like a faster speed um it'd be no wake kind of speed um if we want to clarify it that way um just a thought go ahead Judy um I just I see the speed limit within 150 feet of the shore is 5 miles an hour but I know that a lot of the boats that have our Towing skiers the skiers come flying in um way in farther than 150 feet well first of all I don't think anybody knows where 150 ft is so I really think somehow we have to find out more about that and identify that 150 ft around at different parts of the lake because I've had um boers accuse us of putting our raft out at more than 150 ft and it was out at 70 feet so it's pretty apparent that people don't really know 150 ft around the lake and then also with the skiers coming in they come in really close and they're going probably more than 30 m an hour because they're swinging out so fast Dave let you get your hand up next um I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but um I I just are we going to get some agreement at least that we're going to move on to item number three and we're going to table item number two until the police chief is available to be present yes okay I think we need to make a motion for that correct that's I don't think so that's not a votable item all right I just so we're going to move on to this item number three and we're gonna take it from there yeah okay thank you I just want a clarification on that M I appreciate no no appreciate that appreciate the uh appreciate the floor is for others mark You're Next go forward so uh comment about the people not knowing the 150 fet this is that same issue we ran into a decade ago I guess it probably is now um when we put in the new buoy system at the association beaches the swim buoys are supposed to Mark 75 ft and then the no or the swim Zone the bigger buoy out in the center there uh is supposed to be at 150 ft I don't know how people are measuring that um when they install them um but that the idea there was that that would provide a visual representation at 3 points around the lake so that people could say right that's what it looks like from Shore problem obviously being is that it changes as the shoreline changes so you can't just line up with it and have it be good um but if you if you are having trouble with people um debating the distance that should be a visual marker to point out to people um and that may be something again in our education that we let people know hey these are at 150 ft from Shore that is your visual representation so that you can be aware that is how far you need to stay off the shore With Your Vessel which includes anything being towed um as well as it's all part of the vessel the skier a tuber whatever is there um yeah that all is connected uh and and counts for that being 150 fet from Shore and I think that I I've been given some more thought to education and you know kind of I I'm just going to toss it St from the team just to get get some uh feedback I can almost Envision that like the boat ramp or something that we create as a as a committee kind of like a big like a map of like the lake and then and it kind of like it shows like the lines of like where's 150 fet and like put those buoy points on that map so that there's like representation people know kind of hey the 150 is the swim Lane voters have to be you know outside of that swim Lane so that 's something people can see are like we can have that on our website we can have that you know when people pick up a kayak at the public you know Library it could be something we share with lwa something we share like you know big moner placard at the boat ramp so that people can see that there's like there's this buffer zone that people should not be going more than as you said you know five miles Headway speed within that close to the shore you know for lots of reasons now not one safety two just you know just just too fast to be going that close period Cassie I think you had your hand up yeah a couple of questions where did the 150 foot come from and to begin with is one question and is that reasonable on a lake this size and then my other question was um in addition to the buoys at the Lake Association beaches would it be helpful also if people who have docks would be willing to put you know the the distance of their dock out into the water I don't know what ours is but you know 75 ft or whatever it is if we put a sign at the end of our dock would that help kind of um it would just add to the the um points that are already going to be identified at the Lake Association beaches those are those are good ideas where the good Mark do you have Insight on where the 150 ft came from bu understanding is that is is Massachusetts law on all bodies of water uh but I would have to verify that but that's every other Bo body of water I've been on that's kind of a rule I've I've tried to follow and I yeah I guess I don't know is it from Lake wola or is that from the state um but Tom you seem to know which uh where the boting laws were yeah so there's something I'm sorry I interrupt you you if you could like just shoot that out in an email um so we can dive into it and maybe have that accessible to us next time um so that we can that be kind of searching for stuff like this when it comes up yeah I um I have them up on my screen now and uh if we want to wait till the next meeting I can send them out in the meantime but yes the 150 ft is a Massachusetts regular nice thanks Tom yeah okay somebody else have their hand up can I share screen for a quick second something I think you have to stop sharing for a moment for thanks um hopefully this is I don't know what you see when I share okay you're trying to share a map I see it do you see a map kind yeah I think just there's just a preliminary thing I've been working on um only using Google Maps but I think this is kind of what you mean just to give people a visualization is this possibly the type of thing yeah that's exactly what I wasp I was type still showing there CU yeah sorry my zoom my zoom is very um touchy tonight so let me try one more time yeah that's kind of like exactly what I was envisioning it's something like I can Envision like this big Porcelain sign right I got the that we heard yeah do you all see that now because again I can't tell what you see what's the peace sign in the middl toop that is the center of it is theoretically a mored boat and the piece sign radius is I believe 150 ft um because one of the mass regulations is that um no Headway speed with 150 fet of a swimmer and one of the lake wola regulations is that a swimmer needs to be accompanied by a boat if the swimmer is more than 150 ft from Shore so a swimmer from a boat also entails 150t radius around that swimmer if you know what I mean so the PE sign is kind of like that would be the zone of um nothing above Headway speed around that boat in the center of that circle is that clear the way I'm describing it kinda yeah so if a person swam from a mored boat and the boat was out in the lake like that um that would mean that other boats would not make a Headway speed I see what you're saying within that Circle right that would be 150 feet within the boat or kind of of the swimmer so like if a little p tuner Parks out in the middle of the lake and they start diving off the the DI board I got it that's the type of thing I mean right right right yeah what the what were the uh if I can ask what are the uh the striations along the outside the purple green orange purples are existing docks I could find just oh no purple is this this is completely of my own making this doesn't conform to regulations because I think the regulations okay so purple is if you went out 150 ft more from all of the docks that you can so there's an existing dock on a Google aerial view and that purple line is 150 feet more um I was just seeing where that would be so this is a conservative ring in here this is this pink ring is like 300 foot from shorer ring right approximately again I I didn't use better softw than just hand doing so every purple line there is 150 ft as are the green ones but the green ones represent lake wola beaches or the State Beach or Kinder Beach and the purple ones represent docks that I could find on Google Maps and I just went out another 150 ft but I didn't do all dos and the yellow lines are existing buoys ah and um or rafts that I could find on aerial view I know there are more because I don't know how to interpret the Massachusetts regulations about distance from Moorings and fixed structures or mored structures uh because the massachusett regulations also have uh things about 75 ft Beyond a swimming area besides the 150 fet from Shore so it's kind of like 225 ft for the no Headway speed the way I understand it but this is where I want some confirmation on understanding regation but so this was just something I started with um and yeah so like down here if you can see I'm highlighting one down here that's near the um boat ramp and that's that booy that says no weake Beyond this point to the boat ramp um over here I could see on aerial view there was a raft over here I could see on a but other people put rafts out like at 150 ft I think and because they are Bo structure I think might need to go another 75 ft out from them for um not higher than pedway I think there's some things I don't know what the regulations say I haven't read them in a intricate detail but I I think that I don't know what defines a moing versus like a permanent structure or temporary structure those are the definitions I want to know gray area in there but I think some sort of identification whatever the for 150 ft from Shore seems to be the mass regulation at a minimum right something that something that kind of illustrates kind of like what you're talking about I think does would would go a long way for people to kind of understand like hey you need to stay at least whatever ring we decide is the right ring you can almost have like you know a hash you know shaded area you know hash marked area you know where like the swim lanes are 15 ft around and then you could have this is the open you know water area but then there's maybe like an anecdote that says hey if there's a swimmer from a vessel that there needs to be some distance between them right you know you whing by a 40 miles hour you got a 30 miles an hour whatever um you want to make sure that people are cognizant that they have to look for people in the water at all times yeah Dave go is it okay if I stop sharing or do people want that's great go ahead thank you I figured I ask the committee is something that uh the group uh is willing to use as a basis for what Matt had initiated discussion earlier uh about a map like this is the group want more refinement um I I mean that of course that's also asking Tom to do more work so I'm just asking the the team's thoughts on that I think that you know based on I'll just speak and then I'll let everybody else chime in here I think you know some graphic representation you would take kind of a mock what Tom I don't some has some secret graphic artist capabilities that I'm not aware of um we could take something like like a mock rendering that he has submit that to like I mean Town should pay for a sign or whatever we want to create as a graphic or we can enlist somebody I can find someone that'll do it and they could actually you know do it with a little bit more AutoCAD type of you know technical detail that would actually use some real you know real lengths that are you know more uh in line with like the Shor Shor lines it's going to follow some creeping line based on the shape of our Lake right go ahead Kathy I just wanted to say I I think this is a great start um I don't think I've ever seen a representation like that we talk about this stuff all the time you know in the Lake guolo Association and the Safety Committee and everybody's talked about these things for years but I don't know as I've ever seen a representation like this that sort of captures everything we're talking about in graphic form so I just wanted to say I think this is a great start good work yeah and I I think you know to Judy's point of you know where's that 150 foot Mark I mean on that map you could put you know buoy here buoy here buoy here these are your 150 reference points when you're on the lake you can make note of that and they could be designated on that map so that people can actually see oh okay when I go around this side of the lake there's going to be a buoy I can see if I'm in or out at least it gives some basis of you know control I think you know I think that's a mark go ahead um two thoughts one uh with the buoys marking 150 feet I don't know if we could talk the State Beach into putting their outer buoys at 150 fet so we could have that as a a very visual thing um having or even an extra buoy you know if they have what they have but put two more buoys at the end of those swim lanes that just push people out a little further that would just be another representation again a lot of this is just awareness right people get an idea okay I turn the corner okay I was just I kind of feel like I'm that far away again you want to like you know make people aware of what that 150 looks like so more visual a couple visual points around the lake definitely can enhance that and that's a nice area that the shoreline is even for an extended period of time so it might be visually easier for people to see uh the second one was um and this is kind of jumping ahead to the next one but Tom do you think that you could add arrows going around that perimeter to designate direction oh that's very smart because of the counterclockwise yeah yeah yeah I think everything that we can do to visualize all of what we're talking about is great so let me um write that down I had a uh this came up I don't know where it came up before somebody made a mention of at one point in time should we recommend I don't think you can enforce it's not probably a bylaw by any means but it could be a recommendation that we make that swimmers go against boat traffic or kayakers go against boat traffic so they can it's kind of like when you're walking right you walk in the road where the cars are coming at you so that you can see what's coming at you so that you can see hey if there's a boat coming you know should you move left or right or it doesn't matter it's just an idea I don't know from a safety perspective you know when I go for a hike and I'm walking up you know lock spawn Road I'm I'm always watching the cars coming at me because sometimes they don't see me I jump the hell out of the way with my dog and make sure I don't get run down I don't know if that's a uh a safety recommendation we can make it's by no means a bylaw because people can go anywhere they want I mean it's fine it's I have no issue with that but I didn't know you know like if I was like when we would send our kids up you know you know my my nieces my nephews we would encourage them to go opposite to the boat traffic just because be aware you can't see what's coming from behind you you sure yourself can see what's coming at you anyway just my two cents of whatever that that's worth but uh Tom you had your your hand up thanks yeah immediately answering what you just said I think that's probably an education initiative more than a regulatory initiative but um yeah I was taught that way to walk down streets to face traffic make eye contact with the driver yeah stuff like that so we could educate swimmers and kayakers you know choose best practices whenever yeah still remember from My Boy Scout days you know when you're hiking you know left side's the right side right side's the wrong side I don't know if I've heard that that's a long ago Echo um uh so yeah um in terms of the map thing that I presented and placing something like that by a ramp a boat ramp or something I think it would be great but I think we all have touched on already ultimately we who set it up and others closer to it are going to know it best and I think it will grow through awareness Wess in Word of Mouth like oh on that sign where it shows this part when you're on the lake if you notice this one buoy and people hopefully will start telling each other that's what this point on the map is there um about the buoys especially the ones that exist now um at the last meeting someone talked about what could be on the buoy painted as well but I don't know that I remember them saying they are 150 fet from the shore and I've always wondered their distance but if it maybe were just painted on there like 150 fet just to reinforce once people start to understand why that's an important number and what not but Mark our movies better generally and more often or add more signs here or there um and I'm just going to throw in now because it's what I was had written to myself before the meeting as a note and we're kind of touching on it a lot um some things are already state law that are in our town bylaw it's not that the term bylaw is any different um so I think maybe during the next meeting I'll try to put a chart together of like the topic of speed limit or distance from Shore or distance from swimmers or directionality um whether they are already covered in a state reg that is the same as ours or not yep because I noticed that in our town bylaw there aren't many that are that that are any different from state right yeah make more aware so that they made them more prominent is that's why they did it that's what I'm wondering yeah oh and the lwa also has their Rec I thought we could do a three part comparison of thing yeah um so I'll just throw that out there I think that was my biggest thing I just wanted to throw in there is a lot of work is kind of done for us if the state has already very clear RS and we're then just working on enforcing and educating yeah I I WR a couple things I think that are probably pertinent as well and I see the other hand so I will get to you guys um I think you know in conjunction with the lwa since they own those beaches I think you know we could easily make a recommendation actually go out there with you know a tape and actually make sure that we put the buoys at 15 150 feet when they put them out in the spring and the fall in the spring and then they take them in but we could actually go out there and actually you know put it in the ground drag it out 150 feet and say okay this is where the buy goes so that we like you said I think maybe it's been loose so they just pull out yeah looks good we drop them right that's probably most likely what's happening is my guess and it's probably pretty close in some regards um just because they've been those beaches been forever so people know them I think there another thing I was just thinking about too if we think about like the sign the signage that we're talking about that we were we would have like on our website we'd use in our education pamphlet if we had one or out by the boat ramp that's also something we could get a duplicate side made and posted inside the lake by association building because again a lot of the majority of the people who use the lake go to the you know a lot of them are part of the association and they'd be able to see it you know prominently in the building that it's again a constant reminder of like these are our rules this what like while this is how we're trying to you know keep our leg our L safe so that could be another thing we could do there as well as even even a you know the bylaws would be on that sign so again that's another reminder of all these things that we we're talking about so I'll go to Judy I think I saw your hand up for a while right um yeah I just wanted to say too it's hard to swim with your head up having to watch boats coming and and where we are out on the point the boats come in before they get to us and it looks like they're heading right for us so it's really hard to I it would be really great to have some buoys that that really Mark the distance and the other thing for a swimmer are the Coes you know we have a Cove on this side and a Cove on the other side so it's always kind of a question about how to navigate that yep when you say hard to navigate like just swimming Across The Cove or or swimming yeah I you I don't know how to do that really we you know in front of our place isn't long enough to really get a good swim and so if we want to go this way we have to swim usually we swim over towards the um this beaches a little buoy over there okay still swimming out from where PE across where people will maybe be possibly bringing their boats out but I guess then they should be going five miles an hour so that should be okay and if you have a buoy then you're you're swimming with a buoy then you're at least giving a designation of where you are which is a seen the one with the person had a duck little rubber duck that was pretty cool you seen that that was great yeah that was great I saw that one like oh that's kind of cool one of the triathletes or whatever they are that swim Our Lake you the people that are that was great yeah no yeah good good points good points uh Dave feel for me uh see as far as your uh uh comment about the suggesting that The Kayaks go the other way I think that's a nice thought I don't think it's the I don't think it's in this committee's wrome and I don't think it's practical that's just my opinion on that kayaks can do whatever the hell they want and that's the rules so the other thing is as far as getting back to um the issue with the we we I mean we've clearly stated that there's state regulations on the 155 miles per hour getting back to Judy's point at the very beginning of the discussion and my point is there comes to enforcement um we all know and as I sit here you know every afternoon in the summer and watch the boats go by that that area where Judy is talking about gets violated on a regular basis what are we going to do about it where's our recommendation going to be um so if we're going to start to talk about the E and enforcement I don't think we can leave this discussion without deciding what that process is going to look like and I don't think we need to have the chief of police here to begin that discussion when you when you're trying to think of like enforcement are you're talking about you know calling the police people violate well that's it you know is and we can make more recommendations like that is there going to be uh a discussion on fines uh is there going to be a three strikes or out rule I mean if we were going to have enforcement we should really talk about enforcement and we're at the point of the discussion where I think it should should come up and we could recommend stuff as a committee and people don't have to take them but we should recommend something um if you're not going to really teeth into the game then I'm not sure what the point of this committee is Mark um so quickly da I mean the point of the committee was to review the bylaws and make suggestions I think one of our big suggestions is going to have to be to the town we need better enforcement um and potentially that means you know having the chief at the table um yeah talking to the town how how do we give the the police the resources to to actually enforce what needs to happen to have to to make that happen um other things I wanted to touch on so Matt the idea with the The Kayaks you know going against traffic and yeah think Dave is 100% right it's it's not the rules they can go wherever they want um and I think it there's the when we educate people we should have these are the rules here are some safety suggestions ways to improve your safety with things like if you travel if you paddle against the motorized traffic you will have better visibility if something is coming your way you'll be in a better position to handle oncoming wakes um things like have your lights uh ready to go before you go out for dark um so that you're not scrambling trying to find them at night uh once they're already supposed to be on you mean things like that uh and I'm sure we come up with a whole bunch of other just ways to improve your safety you know the um you know having a driver but also having a spotter on the boat um we use this in sailing a lot not just somebody who's watching a skier behind you but watching ahead and scanning um because the driver needs to be focused on what's in front of them and another person who's spotting can be watching all over the place um to see all right hey someone's coming up behind us driver you don't may not know about it because you are looking at what's in front and you know person's going to come up and pass us on the back things like that that are suggestions and again you would get a lot of this in a safe boating course um but not everybody's going to take that so having a suggestions or best practices section on whatever uh education we put out I think would be beneficial because things like you know the paddling against traffic I'm sure plenty of people have never thought of um yet when you say it they go yeah that that's that makes sense and maybe I don't care what way I go so I'm going to choose to go the way that gives me the better visibility um and do things like that and other things like swimming uh you know so Judy you know you're saying if you're swimming over to the buoys there there's that chance of people coming in and out from their Shore at five miles an hour I'm still worried about a motorboat hitting me if I'm swimming because at five miles an hour I'm still gonna be a manatee um yeah so like things that that you know I do I've gone to actually dropping buoys in front of the house at 25 yards and swimming just in front of my house and the neighbor's house and I'm so I'm blocked by a raft um but before that what we were doing was making sure we had bright swim caps on so that we stand out we're more visible swimming with a group if possible things to make more visualized uh you know attention to you um things like that then again can go in those safety suggestions not requirements not rules but smart ideas that people may not have thought of themselves and need that little coaxing to to go oh yeah yeah I want to do that yeah Fair points one last thing sorry keep going on you mentioned posting at the um I got all this going you got mention posting the the map whatever at the association Hall um instead of putting it inside let's put it outside because one a lot of people are outside at events but two it's another place for the public as they're coming towards the lake to see it um whether they're coming in to visit people or just driving by that way to to go we do have people that launch from the State Beach whether they're supposed to or not um it just gives more access to the information um okay I think yeah two two comments one Dave appreciate your comments on the enforcement and I think that you know I think when we have the chief here I think that's a great I think we should dedicate almost even an entire one of our entire meetings to let the let us have conversation with the chief on enforcement like questions and what chief feels is possible not possible recommendations that there are fines listed in the current bylaws on the offenses that are there they do list those so I think those are things that we could we could talk about I think again it comes down to the enforcement piece of what can they enforce or how how would they enforce it so I agree with you on that so just want sure I acknowledge that um I like your idea of the sign outside of the uh outside of the lake wild Association building my other question is like who own that corner locks Pond and the drive there I don't know what the main road is there where they kind of like post a bunch of stuff on the corner when you're coming in from Leverett but you know you come down lock Pond the bulletin board thing yeah that bulletin board thing I wonder who owns that property like I wonder if a a sign there again that people can see granted you're not going to see if you're whiping buying a car but I believe that's Town property because of the bu Road think so yeah I think it's still part of the road I think it's part of the road Matt yeah I'm just wondering like that could be another place we could actually again I I I walk by there all the time like my dog so if the sign was there I'd look at it you know I don't know maybe that's a another opportunity of it's hey we want to sign here here and here you know type of thing you know get yeah sorry I was gonna make sure that yeah the current sign that's there does a little bit of blocking your view of traffic so if we put one up let's make sure that from a safety standpoint it's not blocking uh the view of traffic that drives me nuts every day when I in the spirit of voting safety we all compromise car safety I do I do think the public beach is a great spot to put one on too because we do get a lot of people that Venture off from the public beach into the into the waters yeah that that happens all the time I mean we're constantly chasing people down and trying to help educate them on they go right by cath he house but they they do they just oh look at this great big lake and off they go and you know I don't know you and I both both Mark and I I mean for safety perspector just like guided people back in like we don't want someone getting run over I mean especially you get those weird glare days when the sun's coming down and you know people aren't expecting people to be coming off the public beach sometimes Kathy have your hand up yeah just back to the corner of locks Pond and um Lake View uh Anna um manbo and I approached the town about um seeing whether we could get some CPA funds to kind of dress that up a little bit and they pushed back saying that they didn't have anything to do with it that we should talk to the Lake wola Association so let's have at it I don't think we pay taxes on that Kathy I just tell you ask forgiveness not permission I subscribe to that theory don't spread that around that's fine I think this is a really really helpful conversation I think we talked a lot I think we we even talked a little bit about them before about how the uh the directional arrows on on a map like like Tom had drawn really designated I really think that the counterclockwise direction for motorboats is really smart you on a lake car size so that you just don't have chaos out there and that's definitely not a that's definitely not a uh a Massachusetts rag that's something that was definitely birth out of uh out of shsb and you know the people around here but I do think that is a probably one of the biggest safety things that makes sense for uh for everybody um I'd be curious what you guys think about that but Dave go ahead it's the most least violated of the bylaws and the people who do violate that bylaws I would say 99% of the time are offlink people um everyone to the Blue Moon you know you'll see someone after it's late they're just going back to their cabin they're going kind of wise but um the other thing I would say about counterclockwise the only other thing I would note is that we with tubing uh sometimes you get boats out there that tend to go around in circles uh technically that is a violation of that bylaw so generally once again that happens when there's no one on the lake and the boats got the place to themselves uh but I do see it happen during heavy traffic periods of like Memorial Day weekend and Fourth of July but for the most part um I could say I that's from my my observation that's not a very heavily violated bylaw I would have to I temp to agree with that i' like to hear what everyone else has to say Tom go ahead oh Mark was next I I didn't know what the order was apologize be brief Mark if it's okay um what was I going to say oh right uh yeah I don't know where the counterclockwise came from but there are many other counterclockwise uh regulations in towns in Massachusetts and that was another point I meant to mention before the meeting um or that I wrote to myself before the meeting besides that our town to bylaw is often just an echo of state regulations sometimes it's also um it has a an analog in another Town's byos so I think it might be helpful I'll try also to like make a list of other towns in Massachusetts that have great ponds and have voting bylaws for their great ponds uh but when I started doing that I found a lot of them with counterclockwise so um yeah was find that that is very like Southwick Philips a lot of other towns have it in there so yeah Mark so I mean uh as far as the ones getting broken this is the one that I talk to the most people about um because we we get a lot of people come straight in the boat ramp right past our house in the wrong direction um this is the number one thing that I'm actually stopping and talking to people about and it's actually the the only one that people tend not to give me any Gruff about that's they oh I didn't know and then then they're fine um but yeah this is one that there there's got to be some better way for people to see as they're putting their boat in that there is a a direction um because uh you know this this is the one that I'm seeing all the time people just come on and take off not knowing doe with the Green Market it's mostly it's non-residents that violate yeah yeah yeah yeah 100% these are people who are yeah putting in they don't know the lake they don't know the rules um yeah I don't I don't think anybody body who lives on the lake is is regularly breaking this one it's the people who need to be educated coming in that that's the big thing uh and just so I mention personal experience here being on bodies of water that don't have a designated uh you know traffic direction it is a lot more stressful and it's a lot more dangerous uh I mean you really do have to have your head on a swivel every you know whenever you're out there driving uh and you have to assume that the other person is a paying attention and B going to follow the the rules of the road for boating I mean there are specific uh you know things you are supposed to do in various scenarios when two boats are headed in the same direction uh or going to intersect um and I think having well I don't know that's another area of information I'm sure lots of people don't necessarily know the the the what you're supposed to do in various situations um and so that might be beneficial for us to share with people it also May confuse the matter if we do all of them versus putting right I like an overtaking boat I that's one that's important because you are going to be passed by people on a lake when you are all going around a track NASCAR style um you know so having the rules for that who is the standon vessel and who is the overtaking vessel and what are what are each supposed to do um but yeah maybe not the one's coming One Way one's coming the other uh but it might be worthwhile looking at you know the rules of the road um and selecting the ones that are most specific to this traffic pattern on lake wola and making sure people are aware of how to handle it those are all all good points good very nice all right I think we we got through three and four for sure is good and again I think there's still a the open item of you know love to get find out when the chief's going to be available and you know dedicate a large portion of one of our meetings when I know she's coming to uh to have more conversation about that for sure so that's good good uh we are at 7:25 the the agenda haded is there any new business that anybody wanted to discuss I know Tom I added that by your suggestion if there's something unique people wanted to discuss just to give a few minutes that way before uh so we're thinking we're going to pick up at number five you yes think we've had a good discussion around item number four I mean is the committee comfortable with that I think so I am certainly good again I think I number five is not going to be I mean not sure how much discussion we'll have but I'm but I should yeah it's only five minutes left so have a quick discussion on it what are some of the the thoughts on water again I don't I don't think it's a very often violated bylaw to be honest with you that's my opinion of it I'd like to hear what others have to say but I think it's I think it's a good one to have sorry Mark let me just chime in I think it is a good one to have especially you think about signage and education because a lot of lakes that I'm aware of you know they don't have such a such a rule like if you go to Lake Wood and for example I've been up there they're water skiing at 5:00 a.m. I mean it's barely sunrise you don't want is somebody who's coming in from outside the lake rolling at 6:00 a.m. and starts you know just like whipping around our Lake would be potentially bad the the bylaws are posted at the beach yeah yeah yeah I mean at the at the ramp I mean they're posted right but uh but and I think you know I know Mark you'll chime in here but our Lake rule is that we don't even turn a boat on till 8 AM 8 o'clock yeah goad Mark sorry um I there one thing on this bylaw I would like to change is is the wording um and not use water skiing because it's too specific uh now that we've got tubing wake boarding knee boarding wake surfing I feel like we need to find some terminology all water sports all water sports must be conducted can't or you know ban or whatever you know go with Towing until recreational Towing I like Tom's idea of Towing but recreational like if I'm Towing somebody's boat because they broke down I want to make sure that we're clear on that um yeah because the mass regulations refer to towing a lot and equate water skiers as a type of Towing at one point so and towing is not allowed at night yeah Etc yeah agreed with all that so that'll be something that we should maybe Tom you want to give a suggestion on that for the next one have a put some verbiage to number five what a recommendation to that one look yeah can I bring that to the next meeting or yeah absolutely on the Fly I don't know if I no no no I okay I don't know if you meant right now word SMI on the fly but but I lik your idea of Towing and you know you know again bringing it to vernacular that's synonymous with some of the state RS I think it's not a bad thing yeah Mark do you think there's recreational Towing and other types of Towing do you think recreational Towing is a better phrase I mean I like I I don't want to have somebody go well I didn't rescue him because it says no Towing after dark um oh well I mean the regs also make clear that emergencies are exceptions it's just uh you know we're posting this and then we're not posting the state reg I don't know I mean I feel like we could make it more clear I don't and there may be I recreational Towing may not be the verbiage we want to use no Towing between sunrise to sunset parentheses wakeboarding water skiing I mean just spell it out yeah that may be the way exactly acties I mean it's not yeah not a big deal I mean it's you know yeah easy to kind of call that out Kathy I think you had your hand up first I'm just wondering is it the noise that there people are concerned about between sunset and sunrise or you know is it just towing or is it more than that I think it's visibility too visibility yeah it's not safe to to do it at at when it's gets too dark you can't see what's coming at you and maybe the driver might not be able to see as well um so you could be putting you both people on the lake on Harm's Way as well as the person behind the boat or the boat itself yeah I I understand with the with uh sun set but sunrise in the morning you know in the summertime for those who sleep in not that I'm one of them but yeah and I think that's why that oh I see Unwritten rule of 8 AM to be respectful that was always thing that we didn't want you know because in I think a lot of the votes have quieted down over the years but in the past they they were a lot louder a lot of the votes were much louder Dave go ahead oh I just want to clarify that I'm hearing that uh we're GNA come back with new language on uh number five at the next meeting and at that point I would assume that would need a vote and we would need a quorum to approve that vote am I correct yeah I think that's I think that's a fair fair summary Dave thank you okay and so it is now 729 so I'm GNA make a motion to adjourn the meeting second I that's great I I like that we're keeping this punctual quite frankly I appreciate everybody's time and being respectful of everybody's time at in the same same breath so thank you for that I'm a fan we have a second do we we'll need a vote yep so let's do the roll call Matt Bro ey Salvador I grandel ey River ey all right been a pleasure everybody this is great thanks for all the hard work uh Matt and Tom I really appreciate it yeah yeah nice work on the map I think that that painted a picture for everybody fabulous peace out gentlemen and ladies bye