Bob is here now on his phone okay okay hi everybody hi evening hanging in there oh can we just let people know Joe is under Cathy's that's right Kathy Salvador is
Joe Salvador um or vice versa Joe is Kathy she's the boss Jo do you want to I don't argue she's the boss okay so um let's open this meeting
and uh I don't see any members of the public here right now but we still have a a task to do before we open it to P any potential public comment and that is to approve the minutes and
uh they have been sent around let me just say on behalf I hope of everybody how much we appreciate Tom and the effort you put in to these minutes because um that last one
especially was a lot and just the way you formatted it and it was just so Crystal Clear um how to read who was speaking Etc so thank you sure uh it was the it was a
tackle yeah once I got into it I realized like this is a different type of minute it's not a discussion it's a presentation but yeah so yeah I hope it's clearly readable and thank goodness that what's its name YouTube provides a
transcript oh yeah okay so I really was trying to just like copy and paste people's words and put them into good sentences but for them you know as much as I I found the minutes really helpful as I Was preparing for tonight would anyone want me to display
them or is it unless I guess somebody had a change I don't think so so I think tell me about how the the rules go here does someone do we have a discussion about the minutes before someone makes a motion to accept that would be okay um
but we always I think as rule will have a discussion after a motion is seconded just to capture anything that might have happened so but we're on the topic already so it's fine to chat there's a question here yeah Madame chair I'd like to make a motion that we
approve the minutes as drafted okay is there a second second second okay now we can discuss if anyone has any corrections or discussions or amendments or anything like that
all right then um we'll take our vote and I'll call out the names Tom I Wallace I Salvador I Eric stalker I Tracy mcon
hi Jim Moore hi Bob Douglas hi okay minutes approved okay so um the next item on our agenda is to spend some time talking about our observations from the furog
visit uh there's a lot there so I think if we keep our observations to key points my main um focus here is how do we use this presentation to guide our
steps of what we should do as a task force because there was a lot of information there and some of it might not necessarily pertain to um to where we are right now especially uh however you know I don't
want to preempt anybody's comments so we'll just see how that goes um but I might be bringing us around to to how can we use this to guide us on on what we should be doing next and Tracy made a
request that she begin um because she uh might need to bow out for a minute or more so um Tracy would you like to begin well she is hi I had only asked to begin I thought we were going to be talking about grant funding and I had
319 Grant um and I asked to go first because I'm not feeling very well tonight um but I don't really have anything to to say about the furog meeting other than I thought it was you know very interesting and a lot of information and
um and I guess you know my overall assessment would be that we have to address um I mean going forward seems to me the next thing to do is to be looking at grant funding for engineering study and
in order to do that we kind of have to address what Eric had brought up about the town um taking uh on the maintenance of the roads because otherwise the grant funding is going to be kind of a problem
because of the public private so I think that needs to be discussed I agree with you who who said that this is uh Joe Salvador oh Joe okay I agree with try I think listening to furog one of their
one of their issues about taking over the roads would help us um with engineering because it could solve some of the problems we have with addressing water flow because if you own the road you could change the flow to locations that were more
suitable um to getting the water to the lake without going through people's properties and going through a lot of stuff I think I think it's I think it's a good time to have a conversation with the Lake wol Association the town and if we could accomplish that that would uh I
think would help a everybody out because that's just my opinion on it but after listening to them I think it's a a real good idea so I will just um remind us that our task here is to make some recommendations to the select
board and it may be that that when we come down to the to our um concrete recommendations that this becomes one of the recommendations uh I don't know what
research we might need to do prior to that um but I just wanted to put that out there you know that ultimately you know we're not taking any action as a task force unless we are charged to do that
um but maybe maybe just having the conversation and getting the opinion of what the Lake Association what they would think about it just for an idea just in conversation I think uh they're willing at this point I think they
really want to work with with us to solve the problems on the lake I think they're in a position that maybe having been part of this in some way is going to help us all out because we need
them right so I did make a little presentation to them uh I I think you all received my email um I think there's more work to be done to establish some strong relationship between our group
the town and the lake wild Association but let's just let's just you know list some of these at bullet points uh I hear two very strong uh feedback points that this idea of um taking over the roads would ease some
pressure on grant funding even make it feasible and is worth exploring both with the lake wild Association and other stakeholders do I have that right I would that okay so Jim had his hand first and then Bob Jim and then
Bob turnning Auto on um I had um um just let me figure where to start um I don't follow the argument that the
taking over the roads would make the project easier most of what we had talked about earlier were the micro drainages which cut it uh across the Town Road cut across uh for the most part the the Lake
Association roads and cut across uh the private homeowner uh properties so that um the redirecting of the roads I think could be kind of limited it's it's the property is the property the route of
the road is not going to be changed because it's not owned by the Lake Association so that it's not that I'm just um arguing against it I just think think we could proceed independent of that issue for a while I think there are
things that can be done that wouldn't get into what would probably be a a sticky issue about ownership of the roads and maintenance of the roads um so
that I'm just a little hesitant to jump in we can certainly explore uh the relationship of the town and the Lake woli Association Road um the one thing I also don't have a
sense of is um I think in many cases on the particularly on the lake um locks Pawn road side of the lake there of that many of the homeowners
have already instituted drainage systems and so that's more a matter of bringing those up to best practices standards given that they've already put in much of this infrastructure I think they'd probably be willing to agree to uh
improve that infrastructure so that I'd like to um look at the funding sources to see what how they con strain what we can propose because I think they do um and then um decide on the priority of
the different projects um because I don't think there's just you know one single project that we want to work on I think that cutting it up into different um segments could um get things going quicker so um and just to add the one
thing about to to what Tracy had had said about the 319 the 319 is the subsection of the 604b which is part of the Clean Water Act and is the Run by um um Mass
SD and grants are allocated from them so that um we're familiar with those grant that Grant because in fact the lake wyola plan is a 604b um planning grant that then the the
product is is from the 604 so that uh we're fitting in that but there are other funding sources um that that exist so I don't know that we um I think we can review the the money the different sources of money that are
available um and decide on where the projects um could be funded from so I think the the mass resilient um pot of money um is for erosion control and not a water quality
Grant so it's a very different thing um I'll stop there just how about Bob yes thank thank you madam chair um I wanted to to add my opinion and also offer an experiment for everybody to try um I do think the uh my
opinion is is that I do think it is worth pursuing um having the uh the town in in charge of the uh all the roads surrounding the lake um uh you get uh we have a a town engineer um we when we
walk the uh roadway with with the DPW person person and I apologize I don't recall his name he was able to say Hey you know th this is you need to try and shed water off of the road um for it to be successful and not turn them into troughs that collect water water and
velocity and and sediments Etc and deposit into the lake um and here's an experiment for you the next time you're out driving in the rain throughout all of the roads of shutesbury uh count to five and within that five seconds you
will see a place where the road sheds the water so it's like all all the roads that are in shutesbury and and the rest much of Massachusetts are set up to very quickly shed water from the roads they're not held for you know uh 100
feet at a time and then uh then exit so uh I think professional development and management of the roads is important and I think we would get that with h the town um being in charge of the road just my opinion thank you okay uh I'm going to just say I'm
listening to this and I'm thinking about the comments that I wished to make about my observations in the meeting the furog meeting and and that was that we have been we've started looking at these
different drainage systems and the relationship between Upland areas and discharge into the lake and we have an idea of what those primary ones are however it seems to me like what we got
what I got mostly from the meeting is the necessity for an engineering study to really be the first step and and that that wouldn't be that we can't fold some of our existing observations into that engineering study and point them to
places where we've already done some work but but that we haven't developed any projects yet and it's at the project level that we would be seeking funding and trying to find the funding that's
matches with our projects and that we really need the engineering study this is what I got from It Anyway first before we can really identify projects and before we can really identify funding sources for those
projects now that doesn't necessarily relate to maintenance and management or education so I'm just going to say do you think we're putting we're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit and that
our primary focus in terms of structural best management intervention should be on seeking getting this engineering study off the ground in some way uh Tracy was first then Joe then Bob what I thought that I understood from
furog was that in applying for grant funding for engineering studies uh or in in you know the next level as well is that the the main sources of funding you need to be able to show your
ability to maintain um and so that's where the Lake wyola Association is not able to do that and so um that that thus the idea of the
Town um taking over maintenance of the roads because they have the ability to do the maintenance which you know the lake W Association you know me Joe Joe's Tractor is it's not we don't have any equipment we we don't have the ability
to to to M to show that we could maintain the roads so um I guess that's that's where you know I I guess that needs to be clarified because if we can't get an engineering study that means we would have to have
separate uh uh grants because one's for the for the private that you know the the Lake wyola Association roads and then ones for the town roads and they were expressing the complexity of that that they've actually not seen that done and I think that that's that's a problem
if it hasn't actually been they haven't even experienced this kind of a scenario being done before I I just need to correct that because I I read through um their comments and when asked about the
engineering study having some kind of conflict between public and private they said no the engineering study itself would not be a problem implementation of projects would
be so this is where I think and I mean in my reading of the minutes that's what I read and I read it a couple of times and was encouraged by by that I mean we could follow up with them again but I don't think the engineering study in and of itself would be
problematic they might need permission to go on someone's property to look at something but there isn't anything about some of those areas being non owned by a nonprofit that would preclude some engineers from studying the
Dynamics and making some recommendations am I wrong on that can someone confirm that I was referring to grant funding for the engineering studies that's where I think I'm not I'm not clear but I thought that the grant funding you we Engineers could come and do the studies
but who's going to pay for it I yeah I think I think we're Tracy you're at more of the implementation stage than the actual study and the other thing that's come up is you know for 45,000 if that's a ballpark that it may
not be that there needs to be a lot of fundraising done if there's some way to use Town money and Lake wyola Association money we don't know so this is what I mean as far as recommendations if if we're going to come down on the
side of recommending pursuit of this engineering study then various Things fall into place as problems or not problems but we haven't gotten anywhere near that just yet as far as I could
tell I didn't mean to cut you off Tracy but Joe hand up and so does Jim Mark Rivers got an estimate for $30,000 for an engineering study for great finds in drive in Lake so I don't know I mean
45,000 sounds a little low but I guess you know we'll have to yeah we don't know we had and it was recommended in the furog meeting that we talked to a couple of engineering firms but again I don't know Eric you could help here I don't know whether we're able to do that
prior to making a recommendation to the select board or not I think we could talk to I would guess we could talk there nothing preventing us from talking to firms and you know the more information the selectboard have the has the merrier you know I mean the more the more feedback
we have from what it'll cost I mean that's what all this is all going to boil down to I mean and I I'm I'm sort of sitting here listening to I just remember there was a huge I mean huge fight I still remember it in the in the was in the elementary school about whether or not the town should accept
like down where Su Mount Su Mountain Road is and all that the Gold Coast quote unquote to to um to accept some of those roads I don't believe we've ever accepted them but there was a huge fight about it and you know whether or not we should take them in I I can't even
remember the de this is 30 years ago but so I just say that the the whole notion of the um the town taking over the roads is I don't think it's it could be really simple but I it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't given the way things a lot of things are in this town anyway you know
like right um I think it's possible I I think I may have straighted from the answer to your question I can't remember exactly a question oh it was do you think that we would could we be approaching some engineering firms without having made our recommendation
to the select board I think could just say you know we're kind of looking for estimates for what what would you what's an estimate of what it would cost to have this happen I think that would be very valuable information for the select board to have so our committee can vote on on whether we want to do this course
of action and take that research on but I just wanted to put that out there now Jim has his hand up uh and or Joe first Joe Salvador first well listening to the conversation and our walks around on uh on Lake View and I mean lockpin road we
found locations that with a little bit of work we could solve a lot of water problems quickly by diverting the water going to the by the dam and different locations that we found that the town already has property there so that doesn't require a lot now maybe the key
is instead of trying to take over all the roads that the Lake Association has maybe we could ask an engineer by taking over Lake Drive or taking over Shore Drive which one would be the best road to to
take over to solve water problems they may say owning the road ain't going to solve a problem but maybe owning that road or taking it over could so help divert the water where you want it instead of just taking the road first and then have a find out it doesn't do
the town any good or the lake any good right I think that's a good point I think Tracy's point on this how we got started was that you know a lot of grants that we would need or the town would need to implement some of these projects would be
problematic on a public uh I mean on a private ownership so um so again you know I think getting getting the proper research so that we can identify the key projects and then looking like what are
the stumbling blocks and what are the solutions to funding these projects and which case possible taking over of certain roads um may be a possible solution but you know that has a whole host of complications well locks Pond
Road already has a lot of locations to divert water without bothering anybody we already seen that but on places I've know I've worked on I work by Tracy's house in that road because it's the way the road lays out it's not an easy Road
for upkeep for the Lake Association because the way the road is period and maybe by the town having an input in it it would help out crowning it doing stuff to the road to help better the lake right understood
I've noted that I think that's a good point and that you know the fact that the lake is number one a huge Town Resource number two you know a a questionably
endangered species is using that Lake you know that there are some arguments to be made for treating the private roads around Lake wola differently than the other private roads in town so oh I agree yeah so but again you
know we're we're not there yet but I don't know that I would make there would be a big fight but I think we got to be up for the fight if that's the direction we decide we want to go in um Jim okay um go back just as a
response so one of the bits that I had to research was the 604 BS um and in there in its mission statement it says it has a statement about working with the counties towns and Watershed
organizations so that um nowhere does it say any draw any distinction about public private water said especially um the the the the status that Lake wolo Association has as a um would probably
mean that there' be no problem working with that um the other thing this is a bit of a switch is that um I think that Joe has a good point if we can we do have a number of areas we've walked over
looked at and it would be very nice to talk to a hydrologist and an engineer what we don't want is any seat of the pants sort of project what we need to know is when the 10year storm comes will
this handle it when the 100e storm comes will this best practices handle it we don't want to do what the Heavy Rain of the summer will do so that um the the drain that goes
along um lock Pond Road that would go into Sawmill River would be something to Simply ask of how you know what is the capacity of this could it this uh trenching along here and diversion of water flow along here keep water from
entering into the the lake wyola um the other places where there has been work done I think again if we're going to consult with an engineer and a hydrologist just ask them is this a doable project can we go from uh King
Road where the water had where there is a pipe from the homeowner that goes down to um Lake Drive and passes under Lake Drive and then goes onto private property to the lake is this something that can be brought up to best practices
and um would be able to um address the issue of of sediment flowing into the lake um I still there yes you are okay I just lost the screen there for a
second um I'm not sure Jennifer is but but you you're still here I'm I'm here I'm here I had to I have an unstable internet connection right now so I just off my video but the screen going blank just through me for a second yeah me too
so so let's see now how do we move through some of these points um I think what I'm hearing and this is now just on the structural um
recommendations is that we right hold on maybe you guys aren't I need to some this is weird someone's using the microwave Oh I thought I heard popcorn
I know I was getting hungry did sound like popcorn yeah but J are you still with us maybe she went to put the butter on yeah really I'm sorry you guys um someone was using
an electrical Appliance near to where I'm sitting and it blew out my my Wi-Fi connection but I'm back this is the I'm in Puerto Rico after all okay gotta love the electrical
system down there believe me I'm sure you know oh yeah oh yeah just take a picture of it just walk out any anywhere in the anywhere in the island just take a picture electrical system and mail it off the people is that the electrical system really right so uh anyway I did
hear most of what was said and um so I think what we can do is say and I have some notes from Charlene but they're not Germain in terms of this point in particular but can we say in terms
of uh I I call them structural interventions because I feel that it's more specific than best management practices which could refer to any number of things um in terms of structural interventions yes there are many that might be able to be
accomplished simply um however I think I'm hearing that and certainly I think furog recommended that we um talk to some hydrologists and Engineers to be sure
that what we might do on our own or not any of these projects are going to meet some standards that are going to push them uh into the future with some confidence so does that
seem viable or logical or some way to put this let's say they have three categories of things that they're recommending one of them are these structural interventions the other is management and
maintenance and the other is public education so overall what I'm hearing is that in terms of structural interventions our main recommendation is going to be to to hire an engineering study a hydrologist or what they called
H&H study and we might do some research as a committee prior to our recommendations in terms of reaching out to a few of these and seeing what we might learn uh if do I have that you know in
the ballpark and do you all support that course of action so first Jim and then Eric okay that um yes and I think we could always use the guise of approaching engineers and hydrologists about um finding out and educating
ourselves what the cost of these things as well as asking them what the cost of a particular type of intervention would the ditching next to above locks Pond Road do Som River would that divert enough water to function in a 4in
rainstorm you know 4 inch an hour rainstorm would the going down um from King to Lake an under Lake with a settling Pond or one of those um
settling and um I don't know what the device is called best practice um would that handle and we can use that for getting the information to help us build these proposals but um so yes I I think
that's the track I would support okay um Eric yeah I just think that um thinking about I me I think your you're the initial question me about whether or not we should um we should find out what those studies would cost I think the answer is yes we should just I mean I think the logical thing is to see what
it'll cost to the engineering studies hopefully do them and then we'll broach the subject of whether or not if if you know the the grants that might exist to pay for the structural things will mean hey well maybe we can't get them unless
we um take over the town the town takes over the roads or I'm I'm not I'm not necessarily advocating for that to happen but I'm just saying it might be very very useful for it to happen in this particular case but I think that the logical progression is to start with the educa the uh engineering study and
one question I have is whether or not um will furog through their DTA whatever they call those Grant those things will they help us make that decision or do that get those estimates I should say yeah that's a good question
and what Eric's referring to in this has came up in the furog um meeting too is that they have an ability to offer technical assistance to towns and the towns have to request this technical assistance and so they have said our
town shutesbury should put in a request for their assistance and I don't know how specific you have to be because I haven't seen any of the you know I mean the way it was phrased in the email that I got from furog
was get sh shsy should be on the list but it wasn't like yeah just send us a letter basically yeah yeah I mean what would yeah what would the technical assistance before it seemed like it was not anything like that just get us on
the agenda as a town that could receive the assistance and it's my understanding that the select board is going to review that as as it's on the agenda for the 28th I know that okay so yeah we might have fog's help in doing some of these
things I don't think that we I think we can go ahead and as long as we can identify some firms and names and they might help with that too um even prior to the whatever this technical assistance program is that we can just
start to move forward with that Joe I agree with you said about getting the engineer about um finding out W projects and stuff and what would work first and prioritizing them maybe you'll say a Paving part of window road we all of
that crowning it out where the engineer said it would help the water flow um putting it something together that we could AB c d kind of deal I think that's that's what we need now because when you think of the whole lake I mean there's a
lot of projects on the lake that maybe we need to kind of say okay this is a project we can get done and take it off the list and then next project will be this one when the money comes through but have an idea we need to start Crossing things off instead of notifying
what's there yeah yes excuse me and I think they said that too they said you know there isn't anything that would preclude you know certain projects from going forward in anticipate because the the um process of getting funding for
big projects could be lengthy we don't have to wait for that whole process to pan out if some of these things were able to do on our own we have confidence that that they are uh you know in keeping with best
practices I guess yeah we want to make sure we aren't making it harder if the hard for them is I know we're we're very eager but we can't be too eager um Jim and then Tracy so that just to remind
that that so that the the furog report is meeting the guidelines for the 604b and so some of the things that are required under that may not be required under other grants so that um you know
part of one of the things that you're supposed to be doing is laying out a schedule of and and propos schedule and then mile post markers for completion and monitoring of measurements and again it's a water quality so you'd have to
monitor um elements of in the Lake of the phosphorus the nitrogen and all of that if it goes through the water quality requirements of the 604 that there are other grants that are are erosion control grants that may not
have all the water quality requirements so that this is my way of saying like if we can go through and look at the other funding sources we may have a better sense of what flexibility we have rather than working under what constraints
furog is operating in because they're if I read Mark's notes correctly they're still trying to find out if they need a hydraulic study for parts of the lake or all of the lake is is an active point of discussion
that they're dealing with right now which kind of puts them back a bit from where I thought we were okay Tracy um I feel
like the uh I don't I don't think it's a good idea for us to start looking at trying to do certain projects on our own because I think we need an engineering study of the whole system um I feel like
it would be uh the potential for for error is is high none of us are engine um the head of the DPW right now is not an engineer um so I I I think that we
really need to go you know look at um sources for funding for engineering studies and go with I I can't remember exactly which one uh tamson said was the one to go for if you can't do both hydraulic or the other one but I'd
have to you know look back through the notes um but just think that that's the way we should go she did say the hydraulic the H&H study and the other one that was FGM I think would be um you know maybe not as
Gering to us at this time especially that would be very gerain to tackling the Fisk Brook Watershed but but that's not um our primary focus right now yeah that is what she said on the grant funding what what grants would would
would pay for that and how do we do that with public and private maybe that is the I can't um the [Music] MVP see I just I mean we can ask them I think we should ask them I don't think that the engineering
study seems to be quite apart from 604 or 319 and they seem much more project focused to me um Jim is shaking his head which I'm glad someone's shaking their
head so sorry no no I'm glad in other words I might have gotten that wrong the 604 lists nine components to the process not that all of them have to be done in each uh application so you can have the H and H which does stand for hydrology
and hydraulic I think that um study um there and again that's where burog is right now now of deciding what sort of thing to do there um part of it is the Milestones that it's talking about I think could easily be the engineering
steps of of laying out um doing the study finding out what an engineering proposal would look like what the components of the proposal would be like and how much it costs are all part of this engineering phase as as laid out um
in the 604 and then there is the monitoring and the educational components that are also part of the 604 so Al so so what you're saying Jim is the 604b is a way for us to go
through and and potentially obtain funding for this engineering study yes okay they also mentioned that the MVP grant program is possible for that purpose too and that it doesn't have it's for climate resiliency flood
resiliency social resiliency I know Bob is really familiar with these and it doesn't have that singular focus on water quality so if it's 604b MVP maybe there are other well this you know funding it ourselves through the
town and Lake W Association you know I think you know there there might even be other avenues the Massachusetts environmental Trust might have some components that could piggyback on some of these other things put together a sort of a package of
funding um so um Joe so the only question that may come up out of it is when you ask for funding for engineering and they give you a dollar amount that goes with it if the dollar amount doesn't in won't
cover looking at everything that we've been talking about at some point we got to sign have some sort of a get a an idea here what's going to get us the money to do the engineering for that particular location if let me see if I put it in
the right form that let's say they give you $50,000 but it only covers like lock SP won't cover anything that comes off of Windle Road in that area we're gonna have to make a decision with with funding of what we're going to
get for our engineering right well I I mean in my experience if we were reaching out to Engineers about the scope of the issues and we've already identified some key
places that we think are primary ones that would probably need attention and then they'll tell us what kind of funding would be necessary for them to do the engineering study and then we can go and make sure we can find enough funding to cover that isn't that the
sequence that it would follow I think so Jim um yes and and to throw something in that relates to all of this is is the Task Force end date June of
this year unless we ask dat submission of our report and so that we need something by June that kind of puts together as far as we get right we're not going to to
exist long enough to actually see any project completed um if if that end date is really fixed well my my guess is we can exist as long as we want to like you know if we aren't done be the SL my oath
the letter that I received that asked me to come in and take the oath puts the a June he um be extended um for for that piece of paperwork and probably my own mental
health of knowing when this will end is right what steps we you know maybe a schedule that we have of how far we'll get at various points ourselves of like when would we shoot to get the engineering estimates um asking engineering firms
for estimates and and feasibility statements um seems to be something we'd want to be able to turn over to the select uh the town select board at at you know in June they what go see what's going on the probably even prior to that
so yes so I would I I lost my train of thought for just one second oh that our T our charge is to make these recommendations and if we were going to exist past the recommendation stage we'd
have to have a new charge so we could approach the select board at any time and say here are our recommendations we would like to still work on this and these are the tasks that we think we'd have to do and then
they would give us a new charge but I can I can and I think it's a great idea for our work to have some kind of a timetable of what our concrete goals are along the way to be sure we have recommendations ready for them by by
June 18th if not sooner and I mean I think that's a really good thing to have for a group and I could put something together that would kind of be a draft of that and then we could play around with it a little bit if you think that would be a good
idea I do um question yeah yeah so how will we um how do we get I mean it seems to me that there's a general agreement here that I think we need the engineering
study and then the question be how do we how do we go about getting that I mean it seems to me that if we could present to the select board and say it's going to cost 50,000 or 48,000 or roughly this that's going to be a good thing how do we get those numbers well I think we have to locate
some what's the best practice it used to be you get three estimates um or you you know three seemed always to be a good number for getting good idea yeah so find three firms and just begin to to talk with
them about what kind of information would they need to give us a ballpark you know it's not an RFP or anything like that it's nothing as formula as a request for proposals but just trying to get our hands our minds around what it is that
we be recommending so we need to locate the name of some of these firms and fob could probably be help I think we asked them that and they didn't have um they pointed Us in some direction looking at
my notes here real fast and it might be more in the in the details than in my notes but but I think that's something that would be easy enough to ask them if they had them Bob you might know some that could be
helpful to us yeah uh mostly companies I'm familiar with are are are in the Boston area so but uh but certainly one one can ask around okay so so let's do that on this
um component which is uh try to see I will reach out to furog and see whether um we can assemble assemble some names others could do the same um Jim your hand hand is still up and
Tracy's okay Trac sorry I just forgot to ler yep Tracy I know that Mark Rivers could recommend at least one engineer and perhaps more okay good I I'll reach out to
him um Tom yeah furog did mention fussen O'Neal because I I think they were a qualified H&H study uh firm uh and the town has a relationship with them already uh and I think that might have
been part of the reason that they asked us to look at the kak brook and the Clen Brook project documents I think because those would also probably identify local engineering firms that could do it and
don't think they've gotten us those documents yet uh because they said they would send over the um they said they would send the H&H the FGM and one other thing about the believe it was the Clon it might have been the Kia project but
you know I'm assuming we could pluck those names out pretty quickly okay all right so I'm gonna propose if no one else um objects that we leave the the large project stage of what we might be
wanting to focus on and begin to identify the name of some firms when we meet next time we can talk about uh how we might approach this with them you know and I'm not really sure exactly whether it would be um inviting
them to one of our sessions putting some things in writing you know I'm not exactly sure how that would go um but if it's okay I think we should move from this topic and um move on to
to two other things that were in the fhog report and to see how we might want to handle those but Jim has his hand up oh I I would just suggest if we could get them just to come for a short field visit I think um they're an engineer
looking at it could probably tell us an awful lot more than anything we could manage to write up and get a response too so that that's okay okay Tracy I just said I concur with with Jim
I think that's what we okay okay that sounds good all right so we have this management and maintenance recommendations uh some of those are things that we might want to develop
that don't exist now um others might be already in existence like one thing for example is the material that the association uses on the roads and and replacing that with you
know other material that's not as likely to wash in to the lake but those are all those are all management and maintenance items I think we need to begin to develop a list of what some of those items would be some
might need funding some are just policy I shouldn't say just policy they could be new policy they might be new policies but I'd like us all to be sort of creating a list of what you think maintenance and management practices and
recommendations would be same thing for public education um what are these who is this theoretical public and and what are the education items who's responsible for doing the education I think we I mean
I'm just asking for your guidance of whether we do each of these in a chunk at one of our meetings to get started talking about them the way that we used this meeting to talk about the engineering study um I'm not sure what
the best approach would be but I think those two components are important in having them with strengthen a Grant application so Tracy and then Joe and then Jim so yeah I think I think I mean even right now I think we could just start
kind of listing off some some maintenance um items that would be things that we could you know start doing now some of them um and the three that come to top of mine for me is the uh yes the the road materials from Lake
W Association um the some education around uh pet waste and there's a newer thing that's going on that I think I did I did send an email to the Conservation Commission I'm I wasn't really quite sure if they were the ones that should address it but
with a new um DPW crew that we have I think that there's a lack of knowledge about the low salt area around the lake being you know I mean they they come and they sand our roads which is awesome um but there's supposed to be
sing very very lightly and I also think there's a learning curve going on with the the vehicle because our roads are are are so covered with sand and salt it's it's it's very heavy heavier than
I've than I the private I mean the public roads and I think it's because it's harder to come down with the machine so they there needs to be some uh training uh and understanding about the the the low salt area and you know
it's dangerous for the for the um for the lake and also um I don't think that we ever had the roads sanded as often as they do the the paved roads so I I feel like I mean it
would be awesome if somebody could talk to Steve Sullivan because he he did it for years and and he did it beautifully um what's happening also is that when they're turning around at the end of the roads I think they're forgetting to turn off the the spr and there's like piles it's it's I can't even walk my dog on
the street because it's burning his feet um burning his paws he has pause so yeah I think you know and and I don't want to be critical of them I feel like it's you know again I think it is probably a learning curve and the lack of knowledge about the low salt area around the
lake okay Joe well I I went on a roads committee and the problem that you run into there's really no set material they use the best material that they have available to fill the potholes that you can man that people themselves can
manage and fill potholes like me I fill potholes on our road all the time and is is there anything better I'd love to see something better that still affordable and the other part of it is like Bob brought up and we don't Crown the roads there a lot of things that correspond to
having better material is having the road design sort of accommodate the material you're putting on it um I I think if if they if there was there was material that was affordable and better for the roads I don't think the Lake Association would ever have a
problem of putting it on but there's a lot of people who fill these holes up manually I think that's just something to keep in mind okay Jim um if I can just answer that um there are at least three or four
spots where there's piles of packing material supplied by the Lake Association so on the West Beach at the top of West Beach um over by the Association house and um on lake road
about halfway in where where the downhill um on Lake Road is located there's a pile uh that's used for there so it's supplied it is a packing a special pothole filling material that's ordered and supplied by the Lake
Association so that if people are just using sand um they we should educate them to use this material which is a combination of gravel and and and clay and and sand um I we got the piles over here on
Merill it's and I fill the hole sometimes on the other side of Lake with the same packing M you're talking about what what I'm hearing is some of the roads on the opposite side think there's a better material to use on the roads
than what what we're putting on right now because what's being put on in Merill on Shore Drive and all is the same material that because they get it from the same place yeah but what what I'm I thought I heard is they're looking for better
material than what's there and what's happening is because the road is flattening right now we got what we never had in the last 10 years UPS Amazon these trucks are going up and down the roads and if the if the roads
are not designed to hold the packing in the minute I F holes in it and within two weeks I'm finding these trucks are tearing it out of the holes so I just regrade it back and the holes what's there instead of adding more
material okay just a thought because I knew when I used to live on North Laurel um we never had a trash trucks come down we never had up all the bigger trucks in the road maintained now you go
in that area and because of the traffic the roads are taking a beating they're not designed for the amount they're dirt roads they're not designed for the amount of traffic on a small Road no I agree with you Joe what I see the the delivery trucks are doing a number but
also at least on Lake Road uh Lake Drive there's at least three or four construction projects going on so that we're having construction trucks hauling in back hoses and things that are doing a number they go they turn upgr Pines
and they go up once or twice and the surface is busted at at that point it's ready to erode out so you're right about the use has changed and and the road design in the material that's a good point for us to to work on well in the
last 10 years we got we built a lot of everybody rebuilt so it the roads took a beating yeah I'll say too that um and I know Tracy can speak to this I don't want to get derailed too much on the
nitty-gritty of what's going on with um maintenance right now because I think that this like I said is a subject for an entire meeting to just focus on maintenance and management recommendations but on the subject of
materials there is a better material they have used it on certain projects but it's not consistently used and I don't know whether that's related to cost or not it doesn't seem like George knows why it's used at some levels and
and not at others but there is a much better material it was used on Pine Drive it was used a little bit on Shore Road and then the next pile that was delivered was the kind that just washes right out so let's just say I'm I'll I'll have
Tracy see if she wants to add to what I've just said but I think that this idea of the crowning of Roads the proper material for coverage it's been proposed that certain roads get um covered like uh paved slightly paved with some kind
of you know permeable Paving but I think we need to save the maintenance and management for a separate meeting where we'll get all into the sort of revolving door of all the problems on Lake wyola
roads um and not to say they shouldn't be addressed but I think we need more time for that we have other things we need to do tonight and it's already 8 Tracy yeah I'm I'm just going to say that you know what Jennifer just said is accurate um and we have um the materials
that we're getting is just the materials just Bank gravel it's it's pretty inexpensive cheap Bank gravel it does have cost I think and um in order to really get a material that would be better than you know there's a step up
that we had that we've had some of over here on Shore Drive um boron's used it on a couple projects that he's done uh and then we asked over here on Shore Drive to get that material and we got a very small pile of it um and then like
Jennifer said you know we asked for more because it wasn't enough and they just brought the other stuff the same the same kind of junky um gravel the the hard pack which is what the you know the DPW recommends um we really the only way
that you can do that speaking to what Joe said earlier is that you know you have to have equipment you can't just have people going down with a five gallon bucket in a shovel and carrying hard pack back and trying to fill in these potholes um also potholes there's
a certain way to fill them just similar to like if you you know I'm going to just use painting as an example um you need to sand before you paint because otherwise the paint's not going to stick right you need to score the pothole in order for the for the material and it has to be a decent material to hold um
but then also you've got the issue of uh crowning um because you know the water sheets off that way and so you know it really shouldn't be something that just individual people are doing filling in potholes they just wash out even with
better material it's just going to wash out it really should be a company that comes in and and and takes care of you know the roads and what's been proposed um but rejected is the idea of having a three-year system where one side gets
graded and then you know um then um rotate that so every three years I mean you know really roads should be graded every year but we can't do that here but every three years I think is a reasonable ask and then and there's the money for that in the in the lake Wy
Association budget um so I think that you know that's that's something that re needs to be Revisited um but you know the initial cost will be expensive because there's been a lot of damage done to the roads over the years that haven't been graded like our road over here on sure hasn't been graded in over
10 years so this brings up the this brings up exactly what I was referring to before a set of recommendations regarding maintenance and management are actual sort of Hardware
things like the kind of material that's used crowning for example but also policy and getting buyin an agreement um on what these policies are it doves tailes with education as far as Ed
proper education about how to fill potholes if indeed individual homeowners are going to be still filling their own potholes that could be a that's an existing policy but it might not be a viable policy so these are really big um Tangled
discussions and I'm hoping that you all might agree too that we could put the management and maintenance um topic on an agenda for for our next meeting and maybe the
meeting after that and public education we would do the same with so we're into like April of trying to get a list of um of what our recommendations are in each of these categories of the furog
report it would also help if we knew what kind of money that the Lake Association has pertaining to roads absolutely you know all of that I can ask them to do this ask do that because fill a pothole up and if you used the roller on it
would help it 100% but we need to know because it's hard to say we want you to do this but we don't know if you have the money to do it yeah or if there are other funding sources for doing these things and I think you know I can imagine that there are some but but
again we're we're putting the the we got to start with what the recommendations are and then develop the funding questions that we might need in order to make those a reality Jim's hand is like Jim you're
like hand is up yeah is it still up yes is that a new hand okay that's a new hand that's a new hand um so that um just with the rubric of Maintenance a lot of the projects if you know redirecting water
flow having um sediment traps um Retention Ponds need maintenance as well they're lik so that just to explicitly put that into this maintenance rubric or developing a
separate of Maintenance of the interventions um so that they will continue to be effective right and that's something that furog brought up too you know that when requesting funding for projects of this kind they're going to want to know how that's going to be maintained into
the future Tom thanks I just wanted to add um I can do it if people think it well or many of us could do it if we think it's a good idea if we're going to focus on a session or during a session on maintenance and it's so Road related
that we ask um explicitly Dave or somebody from the highway department maybe also join us or I don't know when but it just seems that the their perspective is going to be important as well and uh maybe it would be do we have a discussion I don't know but I just
wanted to remind us that they're kind of integral right does it make so here's just let's put this part to to bed a little bit too does it make sense for us
to develop and you guys could submit to me a list of what you think important maintenance and management um Pro not projects but practices policies and I can assemble those into something that then that becomes a discussion document
for us or is it better to have kind of a brainstorming session here not here right now but in a meeting about what some of those things are and then I would assemble our comments into some kind of a working
document what do you think would be the best use of our of our resources would it be possible to get a report from the town as to how wendle road is maintained so that we' get sort of a
what they're doing on the town roads to maintain the the dirt roads in the town to maintain them and what their practices and then we'd have something um to compare with to to to work off of as as kind of the town's best
practice at this point that would be a good thing for Dave to address if us to come to a meeting but it might be something that we ask him in an email as the thing we would like to talk to him about when he comes so he'd have a chance to think
about that or he maybe could even I don't know if there exists on paper already something and he could accelerate it just by giving us a written Spiel right okay or when we actually meet him we could have better comments and questions yeah all right so
I can reach out to Dave and so would you like to devote a session to our brainstorming or would you rather send me things and I will put that into a working document which then we would discuss in our
meeting Joe maybe we could schedule a meeting during the day while he's working so he doesn't have to do it like an after workor kind of thing where he could sit down with whoever could enough to attend a meeting we got enough and have his meeting without having to work
overtime because that cost a ton of money and maybe we could enough of us could be available and just to go over our our Basics with them as long as we have a forum right yeah that's a good idea I mean expressed that he's expressed that
in the past about evening meetings but because he otherwi if he comes in at night we're gonna have to pay the town's gonna have to pay for his not to you know but if we can do it without having to charge the town it's a good for us or if this committee is
comfortable couldn't only like maybe one to three of us join Dave for a small and if it if daytime worked for him didn't work for everybody and just bring back the results to the rest of the group right that could work too right well let
me talk to him about what his schedule is like and I can get back to everybody about whether something like that is feasible uh I'm still not getting a lot of feedback from you all about how you would like like to handle it here Among
Us do you want to just have a brainstorming session together uh say next time or would you like to give some thought to this and submit a few points to me in writing and I'll eliminate the duplicates and have like a working
document which then we would uh discuss um when we meet next Tracy has her hand up yeah so the um the maintenance of dirt roads is kind of you know mean you can look it up on on I mean I actually have a manual about
how to maintain dirt roads I think that you know it's pretty pretty standard stuff in terms of you know drainage and crowning um and cheting the water off and materials so I think that getting that from Dave is probably all we're going to need because he know how to do
that he definitely knows how to do that and I'm gonna buy out of the meeting now because okay thank you for sticking with us as long as you did okay well I don't want to keep asking the same question I'd advocate for um I mean in a
sense both but like I'd like to as I think of things send them off to you if I could um is It's Tricky though with email and the open meeting stuff and whatnot so I think it's just critical people only send it to you and that you don't share
with us until the meeting um and just okay so if if you all have some time to jot a few points down and send them to me and I will do the same and use some of these topics that
have just come up and I will put something together that will be a jumping off point for a discussion for next time okay may I just add um it's very important that people just send them to you yes just to me not to the whole
group yeah yeah if it comes to the whole group we'll just have to delete it okay so I'm going to move us to the next um item here uh which was fundraising but we're going
to slide fundraising to some future time when we actually have some projects to talk about um there were two proposed um meetings Bob proposed one and this was
with someone from the Town of Chester of inviting someone from the Town of Chester to come and meet with us and um I'm going to let Bob talk about why that would be a good idea and see if we are um in agreement with inviting someone to
come so you're on Bob I'm on on my phone de mutes um uh yes thank you so much um uh one thing that I wanted to to bring up was um uh had to look through the uh
uh uh MVP Master vulnerability plan grants that were were awarded this last year and it seems like uh uh looking through the award to the uh Town of Chester it was very much similar to what we're looking to do they uh they in
surrounding town have muddy roads uh that were um being damaged by beaver dams or erosion and they applied for and received a a fairly fat um Grant which gave them the opportunity to uh um uh do
Outreach to the communities to see what Solutions were needed and in our case it could be uh applied toward it in my opinion we could do a similar Grant application and apply it to an engineering study um so that's that's
that was kind of the impetus for me to send that to you um and uh um I thought maybe it would be good for us to reach out to one of the two uh people from Chester that that sent in that Grant and find out a little bit more about the
grant uh process directly from them so how do you all feel about that does that seem like that would be useful for us yeah yeah I agree great so I'll um I'll reach out to them
one of them is the uh the Town Administrator and the other was a Committee Member and I'll see if they can join us on a meeting like this sometime in the future okay great thank you um Eric I didn't hear from you but I think I saw that's great I I was muted no that's that's a good idea okay okay
good all right and then the other one was uh because Mark sent his um observations and and it wasn't clear whether he was sending them as the elwak chair or as you know public you know
private private comment as an individual uh Tracy made the suggestion that maybe we um have a joint meeting with elwak he asks me to come uh all the time and give not all the time but he asked
me periodically if I want to come and give an update to them and it may um you know he has done a lot of work on some of these issues already and it may be useful to um to have such a joint
meeting where he could offer his perspective as the lwac chair um and along with his committee um rather than sending uh emails with notes and stuff which also could be tricky you know with the open meeting law stuff so I wondered
what you all thought about having a joint meeting with elwak at some future date sure for it I think we're gonna I mean I wrote that we were working in concert with them that's not exactly true and that we are our own entity but
in our charge it does say that we will be making presentations and touching base with all the relevant um Town committees and the Lake wyola Association so uh I think it's good and I think maybe we might want to do one
with the select board at some point too whenever uh Eric you think that that would be uh informative and useful for them sure we'll certainly be doing it when we make the recommendation so maybe maybe even could wait till then I don't
know we certainly yeah you have a Pack agenda too okay yeah so any objections to that meet having a joint meeting with elwak no did you say you having one or are the two committees going to meet at the same time together yeah no the two
committees would meet at the same time oh okay that's what I thought it was both groups okay yeah um and then we can get a little bit more clarity on you know the whole Fisk Brook focus and what I gathered from Mark's
email is understanding that the H&H study is probably the way to go at this point it' be nice to get consensus on that um so these are all things that we could talk about with them in this joint meeting okay um also on the agenda was looking
at these discharge points and I also had looked at the previous studies uh where discharge points were identified but I think waiting a little bit later in the spring and even you
know all of this could help us to focus the engineers on places that we're observing but there's not going to be a lot of discharge right now and I think if we you know I have some points identified I think I have sent that
around to you but I think also that can get just pushed into the future by by a couple of months before I mean it's nice when the lake level is down to be able to walk and see the discharge points they're easier to see when the lake level is
down do you think there'll be a a moment then when it might still be down and it's warm enough that yeah great okay so that's what I'm hoping for but we can monitor that you know we can monitor that as um now you look very puzzled
Jim can't hear you can't hear you can't sry um what is the date that they rais the lake I mean that's under the control of the dam so that the lake I don't think it's as firm I don't think it's as firm of a date as the
lowering and some of it depends on you know uh rain event on snow melt which I guess gather there hasn't been loads of snow this year um so so if there has been a lot of snow and
ice and it melts rapidly the lake level goes up really high even as early as march sometimes it would be much later than that so um so certainly I think we wouldn't need to do anything until the beginning of
March but hard to know hard to know exactly um okay so now the only other things we have for this evening and I'm seeing it's 8:22 is to set our next meeting date and it seems like this third
Wednesday I mean Thursday uh it has been a time where we are able to catch a lot of people presuming we don't have that daytime meeting right away uh would every want to be available on February
20th that's a Thursday it's the third Thursday of the month Bob your schedule especially is uh has some constrictions on it that um uh through my work I have a an open space task force meeting I don't think
it's that night however but let me ask you this I I know it would not be the final Thursday in the month is there any chance that we could move our me meeting to the final Thursday of the month yeah I don't think there's any um
constrictions really I know Thursdays was the time that all of us could generally meet so so Bob you're proposing that is the 20th February 20th 27th the final oh 27th okay 27th is the
last one right that's fine with me is it fine for everybody else that's okay with me yeah I won't be available okay Joe I'm traveling from the 20th to
March fifth or six I have to look at my wife and are you okay 25 my wife said okay well you'll be there on the 27th then I mean I won't say you'll be there you'll you'll be able to attend
theoretically have no good excuses right and thank you to the wife oh you are the wife Kathy Salvador wa all mix I'm all mixed up now that won't be available from February 18th to the wait let me get the date
February 18th to Wi to the 27th oh okay you're coming home the 27th well I think we need to have a meeting in February and if you have to Mi miss that meeting Joe are you content to catch up by watching watching the
video I'll watch the video okay great thank you okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna set it up for February 27th at 7 did and then oh sorry yes did I understand Bob asking if maybe it would
always be the last Thursday or just for February not that we're planning Beyond it now but I just wanted to put it on my radar too if that's what he meant please B are you meeting always the last Thursday or just in February it it um it
it varies some sometimes we don't meet at all we but I do know that we never meet the final Thursday in in of uh of of any month so that's so if if that could be an accommodation then it would would keep me from potentially
overlapping in the future okay well when it comes time to set a meeting in March we'll zero in on the last one and see how that goes but maybe we won't set anything in stone if that's okay okay yeah and then if we can get
Dave to come to a daytime meeting with a couple of us between now and then you know we could try for that too all right so any other burning concerns well well at last meeting we
divied up funding agencies to look at are right well like I said I wasn't sure I did I I wasn't sure that talking about funding before we have any projects well it was just the agencies what agencies cover so the
604b covers certain specific things the rats which is the resilience mass action whatever I don't know but it's the type of thing Bob would know about um and there were a few others so did anybody I
did send in a kind of review of what the 604b is last minute um today I got to look at it thanks and I just was wondering if anybody else had any discussion of other you know state or
other organizations we could you know what they do what that was on that list of the furog report right I could say I looked at the Massachusetts environmental trust uh and while their focus has been um slightly
shifting toward marine life they also talk about aquatic ecosystems but they're funding to nonprofit organizations educational institutions towns and state
agencies so it seems like there is a little window there I didn't go into to um How firm they are with working now with marine life but it said that they've streamlined their Grant Focus to
support uh at risk marine animals and also improving natural systems and freshwater Wildlife so I think there might be some openings there and it was especially encouraging that they are um used to
working with nonprofits and towns um so I looked at FEMA but FEMA's you know all related to flood insurance you know leveraging and stuff like that I don't think that's going to be very helpful for us I did take a look at section
319 um I know Tracy did too but she's not well the one thing that that I I noted was that there explicitly um did mention concern about utopic ponds and and the like and
pointed to uh the cape and Martha's Vineyard and and those areas as being areas of concern so they didn't seem to be putting a lot of money into freshwater
issues or non nitrogen uh non-point Source issues so 319 doesn't look too promising Charlene uh sent me a report report on the Long Island Sound Futures
fund however it seems to be mostly geared toward Long Island watersheds I guess Lake wola flows into the Sawmill river which flows into the Connecticut River which flows into Long Island Sound uh it seems like a stretch to me based
on what she reported and Tom did you have your hand up yeah um I had the FEMA assigned to me and to keep the T minute presentation short it did look very uh far-fetched to
put it one way for what exactly we're looking at here and now um could I just ask Jim really quickly please much earlier in the meeting I didn't catch the name of a Massachusetts organization that you said might do like erosion control related grants water
[Music] um um I'm trying to remember uh it's all they make them so clever that they're impossible to remember something like resilient rats um resilient Mass um
something um a um task force or something of that sort so oh okay so you mentioned it maybe twice oh you know it's one of those googleable can be Googled okay no worries to but it seemed
to be addressing erosion and storm water and so that it might I got look it up um it might be something that we could uh grab on to as actually something we're really concerned about
with the movement of sediments into the lake of our issues and it and it being future oriented at least with building resilient structures that sounds really promising making a note here so
I looked into chapter 90s my recollection it's been a while since I did that so many things in my head but my recollection was that did not look good it was that was a state county municip you know it's not it's it's not it's one of those things that sort of brought me to thinking about well hey maybe we should be maybe the town you
want the roads that was your idea if I remember I think that's part of where I got that idea frankly was that that's chapter 90 which is the biggest source of money from the state to the town on a regular basis I mean annual basis is not
not available to use I don't that's my my reading of it I looked up the name it actually is different it's armat uh resilience Massachusetts action team is the name of um oh okay thank you
it does have resources for climate resilience design standards yeah it has a link to that so that might be useful to take take a peek at and I really do want to try to see if furog can be able
to offer technical assistance as we move through these issues get more and more complex as we talk about them but that's going to be on the select board's agenda coming up and um even if it were recommending engineering correct firms
too I the technical assistance could be even just about like how to talk about the phrase techical assistance all the way down to the ual assistant everything yeah so yeah but I think we can uh get some engineering names even I don't know
how quickly that technical assistance thing comes to be that's what I wondered yeah I'm follow January do we get it in January or do we get a right yeah I'll take a guess
after okay all right well I think this has been good I'm glad we arrived at a um consensus on the um engineering study and I will um start to put
together a list of management and maintenance projects policies for us to talk about try to get Dave to a meeting we're going to have schedule something with elwak and with the people from Chester so I think we got some good
things done tonight and um with that I think I would see if someone wants to make any motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second
okay so um we can vote Jim more I Jennifer Wallace I Eric I Tom Salvador I Joe Salvador I I for
Tom and Bob I for Bob Douglas okay I I I I good night everybody thank you for taking the time getting us together thanks okay good night everybody good night all yeah