##VIDEO ID:s9fq9z1pXB0## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e hello everybody hello helloo monitoring the folks here people in hi Maddie hello Kathy J just give me a few minutes I'm maning the people coming in do we have to be on screen [Music] evening hey Dave how are you I'm good how are you good just letting everybody chime in here few more minutes hey chief how are you see you good to see everyone thanks for joining everybody at the moment just trying to see through the crowd here if we have the folks from our our committee on and see Rita's on Dave's on Judy's on Kathy is that somebody Amy's on Mark is on so we're still looking for Christine [Music] Tom Tom Tom's joining I'm not getting very loud Tom is Christine on does anybody know if Christine's on anyone not seeing her Matt me neither do you know her I waiting for a bunch to uh join here hang out for a few more minutes give it another minute or two Tom you're on I think I saw right yeah here okay okay [Music] good don't hear anything probably need to a little different still more folks joining so I'll give it a few more minutes we waiting for Matt you're in Christine brasell go sit in the [Music] chair that's your chair there be no contact information might want to try to reach out to her do we have a quorum possibly we do have a quorum I believe what constitutes a quorum Dave I'm going to go to you for default on that one well we could certainly be missing one member to have a quorum I know I missed a meeting okay we have a quorum okay let me share my screen why don't we get started we have a lot to cover today so I'll get going and I'll keep tabs on who's trying to join the uh join the meeting at the same time so can anybody see my screen by any chance yeah okay good and Tom I'll send you this after the call as well so you can attach it in the minutes the PDF I'll just give it I'll send it to you in a PDF version so you can kind of have it for recordkeeping purposes I'm just going to check the uh just don't mind me I need to keep checking the uh the folks joining that's all okay all right all right well we'll get started here starting here at 6:32 when we get get started we'll um start with a couple things all address out of the gate few things that we've seen a lot of letters coming into you know our our email address wanted to kind of talk to those and you know a lot of folks you want to you know share their their opinions and they want to you know share discussions around a whole host of different things so I I thank everybody for sending things in we love the participation so appreciate that um when one of the things I want to kind of acknowledge is that we'll include we should include all those letters in our minutes from tonight Tom I don't know if that's going to be a a a daunting task to pull those into our minutes um going forward and we should also take a look at is there a way for us to potentially even post all the letters that we've been receiving from the prior meeting and into this meeting even on our website there's a way that we myself if that might be an alternative um but U but since we kind of set press in it and we're including uh letters in minutes I think we need to include all letters in minutes going forward if people are going to send them in well we've only included letters from A people already said at a meeting we haven't included a we've only included a letter if it's been a follow-up to a public comment yeah I know and I I I thought about that as well too so we because we have just an abundance of them it wouldn't be we wouldn't be able to get through the meeting if we had to read every single one of them so I was kind of I was kind of curious about that as well too so I we reached out to the ago to kind of get a an opinion on how do you handle you know when you have a abundance of letters I can kind of share with you what they they share with us they said that you know if a document isn't used during a meeting the public body may still choose to attach it to the minutes even though it's not required to do so the letters do not need to be read at the meeting in order for them to be attached to the minut so oh perfect down here so I think we're in good shape on that one so H task you with the tall task of of gathering all those and and putting those together but uh I like the format that you did in the prior minutes that we have here so I could do them as one giant document or I could do a link to each letter if you end up having a preference let me go yeah if we could put them into one document probably be the the best thing I think just so it's easy to download I like the way your last one did where you could click on that PDF and it just opened up yep that that was good so just so everybody knows for folks that are on the call today you know I've been sending out emails to everybody that's sending a letter um letting them know that you wouldn't be able to read them tonight but I want to let you know we did do some research to figure out if we could get those in the minutes and then we can kind of discuss them in a uh you know in a future meeting and one of the things I had intended on was for our February 12th meeting to be dedicated to public comment so we can see how see how this meeting goes if that that stands then that's my plan I have the agenda set for that for the 12th so that's kind of how we'll uh we'll handle that the uh kind of the main body of tonight is uh you know we have the chief on so um I appreciate you hopping on in our prior meeting I asked that folks if they had questions to send them in advance that was your request Chief was give you time to prepare on the questions that you know the uh the committee had or and also we've had a few from the public come in as well um and I sent those over to you and if we have time you know post that post that discussion of you know the ones that were sent in advance love for each of the committee members to be able to ask a question of you while you're here um and engage with you as it's part of our charge is to you know look at enforcement was one of the main things that we had in our charge so want to make sure we can do kind of our committee duties and you know spend time with you and asking questions that are on the top of mine for our committee folks and then if we have time then we can do some Public public comments and then uh we're going to get into uh we have an open meeting law compl we need to talk to a little later need to talk to about 12 11 minutes as well and next up is the Minutes review so 11 the 11:26 uh minutes Tom they're can you resend those to the town for some reason I could not find them on their the web page I looked at like where our minutes are available and the 26th is showing not available so I don't know if that's they didn't receive them or they just didn't have a chance to post them yet but I thought there's maybe a followup to this meeting just resend them to them and ask that they post our 26 minutes because we did approve depends on how the um depends on how the complaint resolves because if the complaint resolves a certain the oml complaint if the complaint resolves a certain way it would mean that no actions um would have been valid at the meeting so if it resolves that way then we would have to re approve those minutes or approve them do you know what I mean well I I I we're talking about I think I'm talking about the November 26 right but we approv um the questionable meeting the meeting the complaints about was the meeting where those were approved so that approval would be one of the actions that wouldn't be valid if that meeting was deemed not okay um having been legally posted yeah okay well we can get into that in a little while and right I was just that's why I waited on doing anything with those minutes yet okay we can talk about that um we do have the 1 18 minutes that you did send around does anybody have any comments on the 1 18 minutes I do anyone um go ahead I don't know if anyone had a chance I just recorded for my own notes 26 perhaps attendees but I haven't had a chance to look at the zoom account to make sure I caught everyone it's not critical either um no I didn't know if anybody noticed a name missing attendees that were guests Tom when did you send out the uh the last minutes there because I don't believe I got them oh let me Che n it was earlier this week I think or even late last week there's a lot of emails in there so I guess it's possible that I I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday let me look at myself last week so that would have been so I search for you I I went through them I had no no comments I thought they were on january3 it looks like Mark um you are on the list I got him I found him I found him y a couple of minutes to redo Mark before we put a motion on if you don't mind let me let me dive through real quick okay they're they're lengthy it was lengthy I don't think you need more than a minute but well we can always vote and as long as we get a majority they they pass regardless I may vote can always be amended in the future if you notice anything I'll put a motion on the floor to accept the minutes second we get a second second second by Kathy all right I'll go down roll call Brazil green there she is green uh I leean lehan I remel hi Rivers present Salvador hi ster hi when caller hi and bro is I okay we'll uh move on we'll talk more about the other 1126 and 1211 later on then the um next order of business is the chief is with us so thanks for joining appreciate it and uh we can we can let you kick off dive in you can answer the pre uh pre submitted questions anyway you like I have them all kind of listed here for everybody great will be minutes as well um I know people like to look at the board uh but could I have a minute where that is not up and I can just look at everyone um it's how I do best when I have something to say before we begin this and I like to everybody if I can so Gallery mode how's that look that's wonderful are you ready me for me to start okay hi everybody I really appreciate you coming tonight and I really appreciate the questions were submitted I'm going to do my best to get through these questions um in a way that answers them uh the in in a in a um way that everyone understands and also in a way that we move through so I might be able to get to a couple more questions but before I start that um there's something that I want to say to the board and something that I'd like to say to all of you from the town um this this entire process has been weighing on me in a substantial way and I was really thinking over the past weekend on why this is Weighing on me so so strongly in my heart and that is because what I have found is there is an incredible divide in this community and it feels like right now there's a stronger divide uh in regards to Lake wyola and uh anyone that knows me uh knows that knows me for a short period of time knows that um really all I want is for people to be safe and um and to be peaceful to each other uh we have had an incredible Outreach of emails that is true that was mentioned at the beginning of the meeting but I've also had a couple of phone calls from people that also wish to remain anonymous um in in speaking and I would like to make a recommendation uh to the board um that I would be able to make a recommendation to the select board I would like to have the select board host a um speaking session a listening session an open forum for for everyone I know this was something that the board was going to do potentially at the next meeting they were going to allow a lot more public comment but what I would like to suggest is that the ears that need to hear all of this are not just our committee but the select board and also as many towns people that could or want to be there and if we open this up to a listening session an open Forum however you want to call it have the select board Host this potentially have a moderator who's neutral and we can get all of the voices in for the select board to hear I think this would be a very substantial move forward for this broken piece that we have right now um and so if the um if everyone's okay with doing that I would like to suggest to the select board at their next select board meeting they talk about potentially hosting a forum um and again we've had so much Outreach it only makes sense that not only are we just attaching these minutes and things like that but the select board's actually hearing from the people that maybe want to read their letter maybe somebody who didn't write a letter wants to have something to say um so this is a this is something that I feel strongly uh about and um and you know Matt I I would love for everyone to agree this is something we could do take it off the committee to hear people and let the select board hear from the people okay so um you I I don't know if how you want to proceed with that statement no no I mean I think it's I mean it's accomplishing the same goal I think I had intended for our next meeting but if it wants to be hosted by and moderated via the select board I mean if I look at the letters that have come in the majority of them are you know directed to the select board that may make sense to have them host a open Forum I mean I think the public comment is what what the uh the whole point was for the next one and if they have a better way to do that or they uh they have a way to handle that I'm we've done this before in town yep we've done this before in when we've had some really important issues that people want to be heard on and I I think that having it done that way and having them be the host does make the most sense okay let my some of my folks weigh in uh Ria just stop thank you Matt I wanted to thank you chief for attending the meeting tonight um I'm not really sure what you're referring to in terms of uh the difficulty I'm sorry to hear that obviously you're the police chief so you get to see the the underpinnings of our community that I wouldn't be privy to um but as a Committee Member I I have been enjoying this process and working with my fellow committee members and being in discussion I think it's always great to have like Community sessions but I'm not really sure what you're referring to and so I think the people out there Ria do understand the ones that have called me to today and um we even had someone suggest this at the last select board meeting um that they also wanted to do this um so last night's select board meeting um publicly came on and requested this as well um while I had already been talking to the select board about it the Divide I'm talking about I think that if I can get some nods from people um that are saying that you know we are hearing we are hearing that there is some turmoil and there's already this that wasn't a fair meeting this isn't a fair meeting there's already that happening um and so I think this is something that and I'm not saying that I'm not enjoying this as well I think this is um and we have our charge or you all have your charge as the committee um to recommend to the select board and everyone needs to remember that's we're recommending and we also need to remember that the town's people are the ones essentially that are going to vote we just because we want to change doesn't mean that the town would vote for that anyway or they might so if just to have everyone uh feel that they can speak to the select board who is who who are the people that need to hear the questions comments and concerns so do do you anticipate this would be like kind of like a hybrid meeting meeting or you know kind type of forum or there some sort of like scheduled protocol of like how they would call on people and they'd have maybe a certain amount of time to speak that was going to be my sure suggestion for our meeting coming up was like give let everybody you know condense down their thoughts and things to like three minutes or something like that or could be here you know for an hour with one person sometimes right so my suggestion to this look would be would be to hold this as we have in the past and in the past they've asked someone to moderate it the moderator has then reached out to the community and said um we are going to have this meeting we would like you know uh pre um thought questions if you could send them to me and then he then uh moderates the session uh in that way and it's a much more neutral um position and and with again I think I don't know I've counted maybe 50 letters I could be off um but you know and with all VAR and differing statements so it only makes sense that the select board hears that firsthand I'll let a few my other folks and the select board would also the select board would also decide on the format but in the past we have we have done it certain ways that has worked out really well for people to have a voice okay Kathy go ahead so Chief would that mean that our committee would be disbanded and the issue with the select board again or because I know originally they were the ones who fielded the issues they formed the committee um and our recommendations were ultimately going to go to the select board for consideration so would we be so Kathy we still have our charge I I keep saying we I don't get to vote you all have your charge your charge is still your charge this is just a time frame for people to speak to the select board and have them listen have their voice be heard in in whatever manner they want to address that so it sounds to me it's they want to listen to our you know to to the public but they're not goingon to that's not going to influence our charge and what we're still going to recommend ultimately we still have a we still have a charge we would still charge forward yes Tom go ahead hi um thanks Chief yeah I was at the select board meeting with you last night and I heard it talked about at the beginning and at the end of the meeting thank um have you uh confirmed already with the select board that they're willing to do this first of all like I I wouldn't want to ask them and have them say you know we'd really prefer the committee to it or they are too busy or anything like that have you already asked them hey Melissa Melissa orita I think there might be on yep yes yes it was um hi it was it was uh so Melissa can answer individually not as a group for select board we just want to say that uh out loud yes um we're not posted to attend so we have to uh not act as a select board members together or speak to each other because of open meeting law um so yeah we had discussed it a little bit last night and we were going to discuss it further on I believe the next agenda which is no uh February 11th so um that would that would be one of our agenda items and um do we have any idea who the moderator might be or how that that the select board would discuss and talk um it there's been a chance there's been a past one where we have used our town moderator um otherwise it's been a chair of a committee that has done it but we would want to discuss that in our select board meeting so we we won't be able to discuss much here tonight okay um and I just wanted to ask the chief to um consider words like um divisive and broken carefully or divided or a strong divide thank you Tom I'm quoting people sure um yeah I was quoting people when I said that I'm not making those words up um so I did think very carefully and I wanted to speak for people tonight who asked me to yeah okay um I hope that all of us can see beyond anything that looks like a division or look like that's my whole point open and um I just want to emphasize please myself that um I think another Committee Member might have hinted at it as well um I think we're actually doing splendidly oh you guys are doing great but the community is trying to so I think I think instead of continuing on with this way Matt um I just now that I suggested that I'd really like to move along so we're not here past 8:00 um I I'm tired of being um picked apart um when I am trying to bring things together and um and this is exactly what I'm talking about so I want peace and that's what I said in the beginning and um I know uh Ria did not hint at it Tom she was very clear and so were you and I'm being very clear back and saying I am speaking for people that called and said we feel a divide we don't want to keep going because this is happening or that is happening I'm not speaking to the committee I'm speaking to the entire situation so Matt if we could continue on with the questions sure that would be helpful let's move on so we don't I just want to clarify we don't need a motion for this this is just we just this is gonna happen yeah I think this is a I think if the select board would like to have a public forum in conversation discussion and let people speak then I will abide with that with that idea great because I want a public I want a public I want a public for anyway so thank you that you're welcome moving on hope the unfortunate part about being the chief of police in a situation like this is that every everything I try and do and everything I say um tends to be picked apart and I spend hours and hours in uh emails trying to answer people and be thoughtful um so also I'm 52 years old and I know how to speak that's all fair enough yes thank you well why we why don't we jump into some of the meat of it here we can go through as needed if we can go in this order we can if you want to bounce around you have all the you have all the prepared questions so I will leave it to you to kind of uh you know if there's on you want to start with feel free I have kind of them on pages here so um I'm going to be bouncing back and forth my my reading glasses here um okay so let's just start with what you have up I think because everyone's looking at that so let's go with that and then I'm going to ask that as I am speaking that everyone just kind of hang on and if we feel there's any um discussion that needs to happen after that we certainly can um and so what is the best way for residents and fol FKS in the lake to report erratic Behavior what is the process and how could we better educate the public okay so I think I've talked about this at past uh meetings potentially and also um when I was at the Lake wola Association visiting and the best way to report uh any Behavior frankly is to contact dispatch um the by calling the station the police station you can't guarantee that we're going to get that message right away because we don't always like to sit at the station um so we are not monitoring that phone so therefore if we contact dispatch they're able to get to us in a much more timely fashion if that's needed and um and get to us in different ways there are two options for that one is what we call the non-emergency line to dispatch shelburn control dispatch and that's 413 625 8200 and then if someone deems that something is an emergency call and again that's I believe very relative to each individual what they feel is emergent that would be a 911 call um we do have better service down at the lake now with um cell phone service if you have AT&T um I'm not sure how Verizon and and those are working but we also do have um if someone does not have a cell phone or landline um you know if DCR is there you can certainly you know go up to them as well so that's I would say the best and my and and preferred is to contact dispatch um okay what is the process and how could we better educate the public so what is the process what is the process for reporting is that the question I think it was just more of kind of like where do they go to actually y call I think that was if it if it is something that does not need to be attended to in in a timely manner if it's just something that people want to you know um let me know about and it's not a matter of me getting down there that day you could certainly email me um you could certainly call the Station I do have a a work cell phone number people text that that is a public number that um I put on my business cards and that's 413 259-5525 and um but that again you know you can't expect if you text me or email me that I'm going to get to it in a in a that day even you know depending on what time you know you get a hold of me so if it's something that's timely that's for sure dispatch and how could we better educate the public well um I'm hopeful that we're going to be talking about this in this committee because I think this is an extremely important component um to to the process uh in in the meantime before we get that or before we really instill the education I think the word of mouth is what we've been using but I'd like to see more education happen on our website portal um potentially on the lake wola um website as well um I think that when I talk to visitor excuse me visitors of Lake wyola um you know and I talk a lot to the beachgoers uh that come from chapi and holyo and Springfield and I know quite a few of them actually from working in Springfield um you know they look to websites when they go Vis to visit places so they know what to bring what's going to be available to them is there food there is there receptacles there is are there bathrooms there so what why not put the educational component um on a website for people and and we are in an era of electronic um data so I think that is something that we could think about and and there's many more ideas but I think that's going to be a better uh suited time for when we do move into the education component of the charge to talk more about that if that's okay good that makes sense okay in your experien do you believe lake waya has safety issues especially when compared to other lakes and rivers around us and our are the bylaws appropriate okay so let's go backwards with this question are there bylaws appropriate I'm not going to answer that particular question at this time because I believe that the committee has a charge and um I think that if I weigh in on what I think about the bylaws right now that could potentially sway people's um thoughts and I would like to see what you all come up with first um and then I will review the bylaws and see if they if there are changes or not and I will weigh into you know before we're finished and give share my thoughts and opinions I think that um as an ad hoc member that just seems more responsible um in your experience do you believe Lake will has safety issues well uh I have actually um someone has uh um requested some public records in the logs um I'm going to be extrapolating that um to uh determine what we have in the logs um as far as I can tell as of as of now I've said this many many times before I do not have in my I think I've been here for six years and someone can correct me or I'm going into my sixth year someone can correct me but um feels like just yesterday um but uh in the time that I've been here I have not myself nor have my officers um received calls down in regards to safety that is not to say because I was called out on this uh not too long ago that is not to say that it's not happening I am not saying that when people say I feel unsafe I am not saying that that's not true what I'm saying is I don't have um statistics or data in my mind right now to prove to that so we are going to be going into the logs and I'll be submitting those Tom um to the to the committee so they could um if there's anything or what there is we could have that um be attached to this committee as well um I'll tell you what I when when the uh when the crash occurred um you know I was asked a lot of questions in regards to what my thoughts are and I spent a lot of time after that down at the lake um sometimes on my own time just so I could see what was going on and um and I spent time on some motorized boats I spent time uh swimming as I promised and I also uh took myself on my paddle board and um you know I did not see constant uh boats I did not see issues I had uh while the times I was out there I think uh one of the times I was out there I had to remind somebody on uh to wear a life vest or to have proper um personal flotation device with them um so yeah so but that was a shortlived experience and um I think that you know potentially looking at the logs and again hearing from people helps so um what is your plan for putting your boat in the water for this upcoming season and do you have an oh can I stop and go back to a question that's not listed sorry so I I did get I did get a question uh online uh in I'm sorry right here this one this one right here where is it servicing the boat trailer no no no I'm sorry I'm sorry before I even talk about the boat um I want to I want to just address one question because I it kind of goes with what I was just talking about oh okay sure go ahead and the question was and and I don't have it in front of me but basically I have talked about accidents and incidents and this person was saying um do you think that what happened over the summer was an accident or an incident um and so I'm gonna I'm gonna say this when we are entering an era in policing where we um call these types of things crashes now we don't call them accidents we call them crashes however um an an incident is an event or occurrence and an accident is an un unfortunate incident um or unexpected or unintentional um that's it's kind of how it's listed and that's why we go to crash now because um this this leaves it to uh up to investigation and things of that nature I'm not sure what the question was really what the person really wanted to get to the depth of and I I want to say that I don't I didn't take it lightly at all if that's what the person was trying to get to uh in regards to that um you know I'm not downplaying something if I say it's an incident because it's an event that happened uh so if that was if that was the case that's what I wanted to address now we can go back to boats okay go ahead what is your plan for putting your boat in the water for the upcoming season um and do you have any idea of how often you plan to observe the lake from the water okay so the plan as it stands right now for the boat is um I have a mechanic lined up um who is happy to take a look at it and um what is fantastic is this person already Works in town um so they have they are familiar with the boat and they are familiar with the history and um so when they're finished with their regular job they will give me some time to um come and look at the boat service the boat uh if we need to and do what we need to do that um and then uh I will like to let everyone know that I have received information that an anonymous donor um is giving us a um a um oh my gosh a boat ramp thank you um and um would like to remain anonymous and I'm hopeful that the lake wild Association will help us uh put that in and take that out um throughout the year years um so that we have a place to put the boat um a perfect place for that uh uh boat dock I'm sorry I said ramp doc would be um right off of Merill where there's a currently a launch for personal watercraft for Town's people for residents um it's right next to it it's the big does everyone know where I'm talking it's the um the little field that the town created for uh personal watercraft launch but also it's going to have wild flowers and things there so we can have that area there so therefore I could park there and get on the boat fairly easily um how often do you plan to observe the lake from the water you know that's really it's a really difficult question to answer um because um so much so many other things so many other things could happen we could I could plan on being down there and we could be called away for another occurrence um you know that's a difficult one I would say as often as I can um this is such a I feel like it's such a non-answer of a statement but as often as I can and um as often as needed um and I feel like that's not very substantial but it's the best I have right now okay um EPO versus Town enforcement will the EPO enforce the town bylaws or they only enforce Mass boating laws will they have a presence on the lake are they too busy with other bodies of water Bas right okay so based on the need for policing um so the epos have already stated and I think we've said this at prior meetings as well uh they don't enforce bylaws they only enforce um the mass voting laws and that is because if you think about it they service so many different towns that have their own bylaws they would have to carry you know the bylaw books for every single town I mean that's just um doesn't make much sense for them and that's what we're here for so um will they have a presence on the lake yes they will they have um actually they were just there I think yesterday um and they were um checking into some people that were doing ice fishing and uh making sure they were compliant with their fishing license and things like that um they've also said that if I request it they're happy to come on our boat with us um but as far as the last part of this question are they too busy with other bodies of water I wouldn't say they're too busy for us I don't necessarily like the phrasing of that but the truth of the matter is is that their their needs are much greater say on the Connecticut River and um we we don't um we wouldn't see them as often as they are on those bodies of water I would I would guess um and then they also have to get the boat and they have to bring it out so um they would be there if we needed them there as they came um to that to that crash to that accident and [Music] um but they would they would leave it mostly up to us again they've said they'll come out on the boat with me um in order to handle things so all right what else do we have go to another page here how do you intend to measure speed here you go okay with radar so we have a handheld radar device um so first let me go back in law enforcement uh we are trained to in our radar certifications to also estimate now it is it is very important that offers know officers know how to estimate speed um because we don't solely rely on the mechanics of a piece of equipment we also rely on other factors so um one of the things that we would be doing is working on some training to estimate um speed on on water and by doing so we would bring out our handheld uh radar device and um we would utilize that and um just like I do when I'm teaching new officers how to estimate on estimate speed on the roadway I then take the device away and say tell me the rate of speed for this watercraft or this tell me the rate of speed for this vehicle and um so we would be using that in our own estimations um but also we have something you know speed greater than reasonable so um we need to also remember that that is an important piece and that just because uh and on the roadway I'll speak to the roadways right now so just because the roadway is beautiful and clear and it's a sunshiny day and and the town Chang changed the speed limit to a higher rate of speed um and then all of a sudden it starts snowing and the and the roads become icy doesn't mean you still go that speed you could be cited for Speed greater than reasonable for conditions so it's something we think about as well um and do you feel that our speed limit is consistent with other Lakes our size so we have a little bit of research here if I can find it I'm going to look I'm sorry I should have highlighted this one well you know what I can't find that right now I did have um I did have some research in that area I will look to that and I will answer that question um in an email to all of you um but I do know that um for a lake our size it seems consistent uh but I'll get you the data uh on that um and then I will submit that to an email for you all great thanks what would be your top topics on which we would focus our education efforts right so this is something that uh again is so really very important um the education component and when I do any other part of my policing and as I did today actually um letting people know where my boundaries are um it's education education is an important key and people need to understand why we are also in a place uh in the world where people have the ability to re research things at the touch of their hand and so we are very much a we explain to me why society and I love it I think that that's a really important piece so that being said top topics well you know I think we need um and again we'll be talking to this when we get to the education component I hope so but we need much larger more readable sign um for people um we need um uh to be inclusive in our signage um I think it's super important to potentially have our signs in uh another language or even uh have a ability for people to you know um take a scan uh code Q QR code and potentially read uh things on their phones where they are able to change the languages they need um I think that we need to have a larger sign um I know we have a bulletin board at the boat ramp and um I I don't think it's a very inclusive read for everybody I'm hearing something in the background I'm not sure um okay so I think that's one of my top topics and I want people to understand what the bylaws are um I need people to understand maybe some history on the lake so they understand why the bylaws are and I think we need to make it more inclusive um that's just off the cuff right now because I know we're going to dive in way deeper in the educ OR at least I hope you are in the education component sure as we continue to review and plan for the upcoming needs of safety on Lake wola the budgetary information regarding a police present on the lake would be most helpful spe specifically interested in general estimate of costs associated with servicing the boat and trailer General equipment needs additional cost of police coverage on the lake and costs associated with certifying officers on boating safety yes let's start with number three first so um number three is also uh a request that I had in an email and um and I let this person know that um we don't have uh boting safety certifications as it stands right now it was never required and so I'm currently enrolled in a boting safety course I'm 177% uh into my course as it stands right now and the other officers will also be signing up for the course as well it's $60 rounded up and um so 60 I have only the currently only the full-time officers um taking the boating safety courses they would likely be the ones that would be on the boat at first it'll just be me um and then we'll be working on training them additional cost for police coverage on the lake well we haven't needed that so far um I the whole town needs uh the coverage that they're asking for and the town the town in and of itself likes us to be here 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. 7 days a week and we have quite a bit of square mileage to get through and to attend to um and and also including the lake I think this is um something that right now um we could work in the current schedule as we have it and see how that works I currently right now um only have a gap on Sundays um all the other days are more than covered um so I think that it could be worked in currently with the Staffing uh coverage that we have and we'll see how that goes and uh because they they um previous to me uh the former Chief um he had um less than half of what I have for Staffing now and was still able to get out onto the lake periodically so I'd like to try it that way and see how we do um servicing the police boat and trailer General equipment needs H well we have a small budget for our uh vehicles and this includes the boat so um I would have to kind of see how that goes um something wonderful that happened is the amazing you all you all amazing residents said yes you know what let's get another Cruiser so that the one that you have doesn't keep costing us and costing us as we bring it into uh repairs um Time After Time After Time so we're going to be actually down to um currently right now we have four Cruisers we'll be down four one two four we'll be down to three and um and there'll be much better working condition so we won't need to be servicing them as much so we have a little bit more um area to to service the boat as well and that's going to be one of the things that I have to just look at it as we go um I am going to get an assessment from the mechanic that I have lined up and see what he thinks about the longevity of it um so that's that's another one I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to fully answer that we're going to see as we go um appreciate the uh dialogue th far right while I understand this may oh sorry I didn't read that last paragraph is it oh sorry go while I understand this may not require a full line item breakdown a rough budget estimate for the services okay I can work on that um a rough uh budget estimate um the goal is to ensure we are prepared for the logistics and expenses associated with maintaining safety on the lake that the officers are adequately trained for boating operations right okay I can definitely do that um and again guest estimations our gu estimations um the officers will be before the summer adequately uh trained for boating um they will have their boating safeties uh certifications and in ourmes that we take there is a um water component a life-saving um water component and um we will also enlist the epos to come out and give us uh trainings before the summer if they feel we need them and continual trainings as we go and I I love uh trainings actually I love um furthering education anytime an officer wants to go to a training I make it uh as available as I can for them because I believe so wholeheartedly in progressing their education and mine so okay and I think the last question was the one you answered already was around the uh incident versus accident so I think you already answered that okay good that's great um I don't think that I have anything else that I I tried to I I I stuck very uh securely to your um you wanted everyone to submit questions to you and I know that one incident vers it accident came in a little late but I thought it was important to to answer I think now um if you if each I know you wanted to have each individual person Yeah Yeah from the from the committee yep yeah from the committee so I'll let the committee raise their hands if there whoever wants to start and I'll go around the horn based on questions that they may have Mark Rivers first stand up all right Chief um so uh one question I have you have your officers going through the boating safety uh course training yes one of the things that we've discussed in this committee early on was the idea of increasing access to um to the safe boating courses would it be feasible at some point to maybe have either a member of the police department or maybe a member of the fire department uh trained to become an instructor in that boating safety course so that we could more easily facilitate those courses within the town how fun um that's that's such a fun idea I love that um um and uh as somebody who's an instructor for the police academy right now I I love that even more um right now before uh I dive into that I will let you know it's um so easy for PE right now they have two options on the mass.gov website for boting safety two uh different options for people to take an online course um and that is approved by the Commonwealth so uh right now I feel like it's kind of really easy I do foresee them changing the course up a little bit uh because I think that um now that they are going to be requiring everyone to have one over the next few years um I think that they might maybe redo um the videos or add more or add more classes somewhere but that's definitely something I think we could look into and see I I you know I I love to do community-based um you know everything so a class would be I think so fun thank you Judy you had your hand up n yes hi um okay Power voters regularly speed in at 70 to 100 foot from my Shoreline and swing skiers in even closer because I have been threatened by a Boer in the past and really don't trust voters to see me swimming what protection do I have state law is 300 feet from the shoreline when somebody is swimming do you have the authority to enforce that state law yes I do Judy I I have the power and authority to um for all state laws um actually that is a that is such a good question one of the things that I brought up this Summer that that just made me reflect back is that I'd like to see more um buoys and I think that I did talk about this at maybe a meeting I'm not sure so um I'd like to see more buoys for people to understand where that distance is not everybody is really great with eyeballing distance so I would like to see that I would like to see swimmers attaching you know their um their devices to them while they're swimming so they're visual more more visual you know we off we say if we take this out of the water and we take it to the streets you know when people are out walking at night um they're they're allowed to walk at night cars are supposed to be paying attention for them they have the right of way but something that I think is super important is that they were a hiis vest right let us know you're out there carry a flashlight so same same the voters are are needing to pay attention they people are supposed and know um how close or how far to come to the swimming area or Shoreline but let's do some things that can create a little bit more uh awareness for people so that they can see these things does that answer your question Judy thank you yes right thanks Judy T Chief uh first of all thank you uh for spending the time with us tonight and um I'm sorry to hear this has caused you so much angst uh I I don't think you've answered this question to me I just want to follow up I mean I I'm in a lot of meetings in town you're always in them you're a busy person do you feel confident that you have the resources and the Manpower woman power I should add to actually enforce the bylaws because I think what people are looking for is simply enforcement um I I think the committee um the majority felt that the bylaws were adequate um but the feedback that I've received is that they're just they're difficult to enforce so I just want to run ask again Is it feasible given everything that is on your plate thank you Dave thank you so much for that question and recognizing I can tend to be very busy I my what I really love to do is be out in the community and I was just talking about this today to Sergeant Peltier um I have I am a working Chief so I have administrative duties and I have um patrolling duties I have working duties and but my favorite thing is to be out in the community um it's one of the things that I miss the most um from being a patrol officer is being able to be out there much more than I am now I've had to designate time to sometimes be out there is it feasible yes it is but we need some other components with that as well we need the education component we need to get people uh in the understanding of what is expected and um and I think if we have these things combined um I believe it will work if we try it and I am failing everyone knows I am the first person to point out that I am failing and this is something that I'm going to have to relook at I've done it before I've said it before I'm not afraid of that but I can say confidently looking at what we have right now looking at the care that everyone has in this community for this lake is is something that I really enjoy seeing and I think that this is something that we can do I have a stable Department I have which is the first time it's been this stable in in quite a while and um and I feel that with the proper training um and uh extra extra training that I'm going to be looking for that um I believe we'll be able to do this Dave it's not just enforcement we have to look at the other components we have to look at um you know the education and the signage and the uh inclusiveness and getting information out there we have to look at all of these things we have to work in cooperation together not only us but we have to work in cooperation with you know other departments and um DCR and epos Etc I guess my what I wanted I wanted to give you a short answer and I just went on and on but yeah the answer is yes I I really do Ria go ahead you're next thank you I'm glad to hear that chief because last time I talked to you it seemed like you were kind of short staff to getting like different uh things uh like needing a secretary so I'm I'm glad you're able to do that when was when was that Ria oh when when I came into the office to talk to you about oh I still love a secretary sure yeah I Administrative Assistant yeah all right um I have a couple um one request is when you get that when you find that data about comparable lakes that you let us know where you're sourcing that from um of course whether or not it matches and then uh I I was kind of curious about this boting safety class that the police officers are taking is this the same that citizens take it's the exact same yes there is no specific voting safety course for police officers uh so it's the exact one that the citizens take and then as I said I'm going to reach out to the epos and we are going to work cooperatively with them to uh get up to whatever speed they feel we need to if we are not okay having taken that course uh where I sat in through the whole length of it where it was just showing PowerPoint after PowerPoint and it's and being a boater my entire life I thought it was rather rudimentary so maybe in your your training for trainer type of position to maybe upgrade that would be like a wonderful thing right I would be careful I was concern concerned about that I would be careful with saying uh your opinion on it was being rudimentary because there are people out there that it might be difficult for uh in that that being said um I think so far in the very short time that I've looked at it I think it's got some good information I apologize I don't want to offend anybody I'm not meaning it's rudimentary it just it was just standing or sitting in the room for the entire course just watching PowerPoints yeah and um so that's I I I it's one form of Education of course so I was one oh I just wanted to speak to that I would have had my officers sign up for the inperson course but that was going to be it it was going to be much more costly and I was told it's the exact same so uh that's why we went with this one yeah so they're doing it remotely yes okay um so one of the questions come up over the course of our meetings here is the difference between an environmental police officer what we keep on referring to if if uh folks in the on the zoom don't understand what we keep on referring to as EPO environmental police officers in um the the shuberry police department and that some of the things that an environmental police officer might be able to do because they have different qualifications than our town Department can you clarify a little bit of that because there's been a lot of question around it I'm not sure if I'm certainly not sure about what the difference is are you all becoming kind of official environmental police officers then to be able to do an aquatic type of resue and or whatever oh well yes I mean yes okay so I guess I'm going to need you to get your um question a little more streamlined for me what's the difference between an environmental police officer and a town uh like shuberry police department and what you can actually enforce on a body of water okay we can enforce all the same laws all the law there's some back feed on that some somebody's got their mic open I can mute everybody but then I'll have to unmute you I think is how it have to work it fixed itself it fixed itself okay if it continues on I can go with the full mute okay right so okay again r one more time because that threw me okay no problem so the question that has arose in the committee is what would the police department in shuber would they have different gu lines or ability to respond in a different way than an environmental police officer patrolling the lake okay are there different qualifications I guess so we all we all can enforce the same things um just as environmental police officers can do traffic stops they can be rolling through shoot Berry and do a traffic stop so if you ever see an environmental police officer pull you over you should stop um so we can we can enforce all things but yes I think what you're really getting to is that they are much more um sorry oh I'm sorry I thought somebody said something so they are they are much more specific in certain uh things that they do hunting loss boating loss environmental protecting environment protecting environment loss right so um the answer is we we can both cross over and do the same things um um but we always lean to experts when certain things arise um and that is because various reasons I could go on and on uh in regards to that but so say for a boating crash accident um you know they are the experts on the waterways and they have uh the purview to handle those accidents it's sort of like the state police um we don't have a detective unit here in shutesbury so if we have a um death of some sort the the unit that comes in from the state police investigates that um so yes so we lean to experts for various different things and U make no mistake about it they lean to us as well they call us up and they ask us what we think about this area because we're here and we're basically living in this um environment and in this town and we are the experts of of our own town that we work in so I'm not sure if I went round and round on that for you or if I got your answer I appreciate it I guess it it kind of comes into the area of like RightWay uh laws of the waterways and that there's kind of a gray area as we're searching down on what the codes are for that at least for Massachusetts on where you give right away for um a swimmer or a paddle board or a kayaker and so those are some of the things that we were talking about and I asked any of my other committee members if I'm getting this right or wrong they were trying to figure out there what is the actual standard uh written in the law and so can we then assume if the shsb police department would be patrolling the lake that they would have those answers because those are really some of the kind of key questions that come up in terms of kayakers and and power boats and and the rowboats whatever uh giving right away so is that some of your training I'm just trying to get the gist of it how so we could answer those questions so as I stated before we are going to be leaning to our uh EPO family to assist us in making sure we are up to speed with everything um I would love to tell you that we are experts right now but that would be a lie I am not I am not an expert right now um I don't know if I'll be an expert but I will be able to handle the situations and the laws that come all right go to Kathy be could because we're going to run out of time here shortly so I want to yeah quick question um how difficult would it be um for you to formally schedule like a rotation of officers on the lake um at certain times like in the winter now when the lake is frozen in the summer on busy weekends um not a predictable schedule for the public to to get to know but just on a rotation so that there's a presence periodically keeping people on their toes that's the plan cast it's going to be an um something we call intermittent reinforcement um it's what we do on the roadways as well you never know when we're going to be around the corner so our hope is is that you are going to maintain the speed limit and um operate appropriately um I would love to say um that you know if if none of us were around everyone would do everything they're supposed to do but we know as human beings um that's not always the case for various reasons so um we will have um some sort of rotating schedule as I said uh it's going to start with me and I need to make sure my officers who uh are are with me right now um are up to speed as well and um and we will be working towards towards that I want you to understand that we can also do things from the the land as well um and uh we can um it's not it's not such a giant body of water that we can't figure fure out who's kind of doing what but I will reiterate the importance of calling us which is something that was stated at at the lak whale association meeting that you know well yeah there's there's been problems but nobody has called and uh and unfortunately if you don't have the data and statistics to prove that um right so if there's a problem we definitely want to be called and then um and we can figure out the need for US based on that based on what we see based on the calendar um what's what's happening in holidays that sort of thing got oh maybe one more question and then we will unfortunately have to move on to our other business Chief no sure track yep I'm hopeful to take I don't know I was hopeful I could take one or two questions from the public tonight sure that all right be quick thanks Matt and uh thanks Chief Burgess uh Chief Burgess as part of our charge we have um that one of our members would be uh representative of the environmental police as an ad hoc member and that we would contact DCR to get a person to serve as a resource might you be in a position to help us establish those chains of communication or oh sure because we haven't had that good fortune yet and um yeah I I don't know myself where to begin on that oh I'm very helpful to do that Tom and what we have great news um that we have always uh struggled to get environmental police officers out to this area because we didn't have someone stationed in this area and we do now we have somebody who is specific to our area which is a huge catchman area but still it's much better than it was before I'm not calling um you know uh Sergeant Champlain from the Burk and you know up in uh Peru and asking him to come down um so yeah I definitely can help with that if you just re send me an email what you who you need I have the contacts awesome thank you just a couple of hands up from the uh from the public um start with Mariam hi this is actually Rob Kibler was sharing a laptop tonight was asked about the rules regarding who has the right away and chief I think it's fair to say that the the maritime laws for watercraft are much less defined than the automobile laws for the road correct true yep okay so if we wanted to have a lake on which human powered craft had the right of way over gas engine powered craft to be in the bylaw correct you know I'm having a really hard time hearing you and I was staying with you until the last part I'm so sorry can you either I apologize uh there is no regulation as far as who has the right of way for whether it's a powered craft or a paddlecraft so if we wanted to have a lake on which human powered craft had the right of way over powered craft that would have to be in a bylaw is that correct well I I am assuming that yeah would if somebody if the a town wanted to do that it would have to be in a bylaw potentially yes I I also think though we need to look at um I'm trying to figure out how to formulate this and do it because I want to get to a couple more people so we need to look at um people understanding and and this is part of the education component do I take over somebody who's swimming in front of me in a powered motorboat that would be something that is we need to look at all factors here and I am of the mindset that um we have we we have an incredible town with incredibly smart people in it and I've not heard that that's been an issue if if it's an issue we do need to look at it but we also need to um recognize that I think that people if they see people they're not going to try and overpower take over um a nonmotorized vehicle maybe I'm a Pana I maybe I don't know so Jen I can't hear you okay here I am hi thanks and thanks for this opportunity so my question has to do with uh whether you believe there's a conflict in our bylaw between number one in the bylaw which says all the Massachusetts boating laws should be followed and number three which is a specific Town law number one says that a boat going more than Headway speed needs to be 150 ft from a swimmer water skier and other things and number three says it has to be 150 ft from Shore but if I'm swimming as a swimmer within my rights let's say at 60 feet technically the way I'm reading it the boat would need to be 210 feet from Shore which would be my 60 plus the 150 feet from me if they're following the state law so there's been a lot of discussion within the committee that the current bylaw is adequate and clear and I'm asking you whether that conflict that I think I'm seeing is an actual conflict and seems like if it is it presents a lot of problems for enforcement and education in that what is the actual um and in other words maybe a boat can be 150 feet from Shore unless there's a swimmer present and we're not talking about designated swimming areas because the state law says a swimmer meaning me swimming along at 60 feet what do you think of that well so don't hate me but I'm gonna go back to but I'm gonna go back to what I said in the beginning um of the meeting and that I'm not going I don't think it would be prudent of me to comment on my thoughts on the bylaw until the committee is finished doing their charge um and then I will weigh in on my thoughts in regards to that I understand what you're saying I do I hear you um I understand what you're saying um so but I I feel that if I give an opinion on the bylaws that's not going to be helpful to the committee okay only and this is up to you and the committee but only that if the committee is recommending that the bylaw is clear and adequate as it is but the bylaw as it is presents as conflict with the state law I would hope that the committee would take under advisement that maybe it's not quite as clear as it appears so I I'm fine to just leave it at that and hope that the committee will take that under advisement yes I definitely understand that I hear you and um I will I am working that down and I thinkk that do we have more time I'm not in charge of time sure let's see let's do two more let's do the two that car Carol and Amy first hi Carol me first okay sure um hi Chief good to see you again uh thanks for for coming to this meeting and clarifying A lot of things I just have three um comments and maybe some questions in there about those three things um about data collection what has happened over the years that I've been here for for 24 years is that I personally and I know a lot of people that have talked to me about this and uh that um we ha in order to keep ourselves um safe we have to uh not go out to paddle um because it's it's not a self scen out there and so I'm wondering is it if every time that I say nope that's not safe situation for me if I can report that as a self selected because that is keeping the accident rate down because PE people have learned by intimidation or by near misses um or or just the general you know environment that isn't conducive to paddling or swimming or sailing that they're not going to go out at certain times so if you are thinking about data and collecting data I'm wondering if that is a category that could be included I mean sure and actually I I I really love that you brought this question up so what I'm hopeful for is in the future um you could give me a call and say hey if you're around can you just come take a look at something down here for me and I can come down and I can see what's going on and look at that and yes we would then add that um to the data if that were or statistics or whatever if that were a necessary component to do so absolutely for sure and okay thank you is that it yeah okay no no that's not it but thank you for considering to to add that in and we know um unfortunately that we learned again this Summer that it only takes one boat that's out of control so you might come and say hey there's only one boat out there but if they're out of control you would be looking for that I I would assum well of course if you called me and asked me to come down because you felt that somebody was being unsafe before you felt unsafe we would assess it with all of the tools and uh education and experience that we have cool okay my second point is about the Merill Road location for um storing your boat um I I you know I'm really appreciative that somebody has um come forward to donate that and make it easy for you that location AB buts the uh a pretty well-known viol of voting rules on lake wyola and I will wait for the investigation to be completed before I you know make any accusations on that um but it that would allow him to say hey the boat's here I'm GNA go out and zoom around and or say oh the boat's gone I'm not going to go out now so I I don't know if there's other options uh that you can consider but that occurred to me when at first I was like oh that's a good location I'm like no I don't I'm not sure about that so if you could con just consider yes AB absolutely Carol I I'll let you know though this happens in so many different ways and and again it's a it is such a small body of water that anybody would know if I was there or not potentially and this happens with Cruisers as well I decided today to park my cruiser around back town hall um because I was utilizing the downstairs more and people thought there were no Cruisers down so you know it it kind of It kind of happens with all things so yes I will absolutely take that into consideration and and I'm not saying that's exactly where it's going I'm hopeful that that's where it would go it would be a good spot y okay thank you and uh then I wanted to just talk a little bit about the spec specificity of bylaws because um I think I I've worked for every all the 24 years that I've been here I have worked um for say uh and and I've always promoted Lake rool as being a multi-use lake and I'm for safety and and so I think the specificity of the bylaws have to be part of an educational tool and I would like if you'll indulge me to read um from Mass do hey Carol I am so sorry but um I really want to get Amy in before I finish and we only have n minutes left is this going to be super quick super quick all right this is this is a piece of the bylaw for har the town of Harvard I happened to know that um body of water because a former student of mine lives that you know lives on that Lake um and and I just want people to listen to the specificity and how it would relate to education no person operating a craft propelled by other than muscle power Shall Pass another craft within 150 feet or circle around any craft in a manner as to uh annoy or endanger the occupants of the other craft nor pass within 150 feet of another craft or between Mor crafts floats no craft shall operate at a speed that endangers life limb or property of any person so while our bylaws May um standing on their own look adequate and five people on the committee uh voted that they were the other four were we're not even through a process of of the research and looking at it um but if we want the bylaw to be part of of education then some kind of specificity of that language and if you go on mass.gov you can read every town except shb is not on there for whatever reason I hope the committee will look into that um and get our bylaws to be modern and as part as an educational tool okay thank you I don't thank you Carol I I want to make sure we we promised Amy a I too want to hear Amy yes um I thought I lost you guys for a second okay Amy sorry we're not leaving this group a lot of time here we go that's okay so just quickly and and chief I thank you for your time here this actually is not a question to you um but I did want to just um respond to Jennifer Wallace's um comment um the town bylaw number one says all motorboats must comply with mass boating laws and Coast Guard reg regulations for safety equipment we have looked at these bylaws very thoroughly and I do not believe that that we missed anything here in in those bylaws like I don't think that they conflict in any way so I just wanted to note that thank you this well I'm all done Matt if everyone else thanks Amy I'm all done now if everybody else is all done I have nothing else to add so um we can move on if you're ready or whatever you want to doam had her hand Miriam did have her hand up okay hi very thank you um I just uh in response to Jennifer's comment about the bylaw and state law um and I can send you um the document but if you go to the mass environmental police's voting regulations documents um it describes Headway speed is needing to be maintained um within 150 feet of swimmers and from 150 to 200 feet of shorelines that are used as swimming areas um so and it also requires that motorboats not be operated within 150 feet of shorelines used a swimming area so I don't think it's inconsistent um but you certainly I'm happy to email this to you and you can look at it thank you thanks Miriam all right right I think that think that conclud thank you chief for your time definitely uh appreciate you being prepared for the questions that we had thank you for taking a lot of questions on the spot as well that is highly appreciated and look forward to uh working with you further as we get into the further depths of the charge as well yes absolutely and as I said earlier I will um be in in touch with the select board and formally request uh they discuss on their next agenda um uh a session to hear people okay and what I will do is I'm going to wait on our 12th meeting until I hear back from you folks and if you are going to host a a moderated meeting of some sort if that's what comes comes to Bear then I will change my agenda for the 12 meeting so just so everybody's aware fair enough all right thanks chief that concludes that portion let me go back to my thing here so I will continue with our program here what's next on our agenda so next up on our agenda is that we I wanted to address the uh open meeting law complaint that was made by Tom seir um on the person in the violation and uh just so just quick background for the public who don't know about the uh complaint the complaint was around a meeting that we had on 1211 we had some issues with a zoom link with the town as they were changing around Zoom uh Zoom accounts based on the amount of different town committees that are using the zoom accounts they're in the process of getting uh new accounts established so a little breakdown in communication happened and a few links were changed around prior to our meeting um so that caused a little bit of a uh a scramble while we are trying to get get organized for that specific meeting on 12:14 or 12:11 rather and that's what that's what Tom wrote about in this uh in this complaint this complaint I'm not going to go into reading in intricate detail here because it will be in our minutes that will be posted post our uh our next meeting here if those are accepted um and then there a complaint response requested on what we should do with the 11th meeting on whether or not it's a legal meeting based on the changing of the of those links you know prior to so I'm charged with coming up with a a response to this complaint so I will say you know first and foremost you know I want to let everybody know I take this complaint very seriously and I want to ensure that we're having compliant meetings you know as a committee that's uh that's part of my job as the chairman to make sure that that that is is taking place so I spent a lot of time over the last several weeks really studying up on open meeting laws and I also had the opportunity to discuss you know with you know councel from my work I have access to a a fair quite a few attorneys and I could speak with plenty people within my uh within my my employment area so I I did that and from everything that I I read and and I've uh been counseled on it's important that my response is specifically to this written complaint as it was presented to the Attorney General's office so that that that's what I did and I spent a fair amount of time going through that and my in my opinion is that we did have a legal meeting in my letter that I'm writing back here which is on the screen I'm not going to read it in verbatim here but I'll break it down into the several key points of why that I believe it is is that after going through all the different points that were made is that we I definitely acknowledge that we did have technical difficulties but we did resolve them by 6:30 and that was documented on the mytown government site and for folks that don't know what the mytown government site is that all public meetings any change to any agenda with any changes of any links or anything like that are available for all the public um if there were to be you know a change or something like that they could go to that site and uh and see that and that was documented um we did delay the start of the meeting that we had on on 1211 to it was right around 6:43 as we tried to accommodate you know the the issues make sure everybody was able to get on to the meeting so we uh we did do that and we uh you know we called people you know we needed and we made sure that they could get on and we were able to get all nine of our committee members on that meeting as well as several members of the public did attend that meeting as well so I think in in my in my my response here is that we made you know best attempts to resolve the link issues that we had during that meeting they're made in good faith to make sure that we could have a legally compliant meeting and uh the other thing that we did do is we we have our meeting it's available to the public to uh to watch at any time and it's on you can get to it through the shutesbury website you can also I also have the link here on the YouTube link that's available as well so they can look at it any given time and you know I think you know a lesson learned here on you know if this was to happen again then we should discuss either you know making sure that we have enough adequate time to either make sure people can get on or and or even talk about potentially rescheduling in the future if this was to happen again so that's kind of what I see as what we're going to move forward with and you know I want to respond let my committee members you know provide me a response or anything that they want to chime in on with this but ultimately it's going to be my letter that I WR right back to ultimately in respond to Tom's complaint back to the attorney general which I need to do by this evening to stay compliant with a law of a 14-day response so I'm going to stop sharing this for the moment and I will take questions from my committee members as they have them go ahead Dave um Matt given that the complaint was filed from a member of our committee is it reasonable for this committee to be able to have discussion without the public present there is there is the opportunity to go into executive session but we would need a unanimous um vote from our committee members that we would do that I'm going to make a motion to do that um Grace has her hand up too it and she's the town clerk so I will take her question first if you guys want to go into an executive session to discuss this that would need to be posted on the agenda beforehand so you would need to hold this discussion until a later meeting if you wanted to go into executive session Tom Matt I realize you have to file the I realize you have to file your response tonight uh but I would like to recommend to the committee that any further discussion of this because I don't think any it's relevant you're going to file your as it is you're going to respond you're on the complaint I would like to have an executive session scheduled for our next meeting to discuss this noted and what exactly are you asking to discuss Dave I just that would be in the executive session that's why I'm calling second it second yeah Matt's able to request an extension as well if you second it close your mic off I'm uh I'll let other people chime in here go ahead you're muted Christine sorry I couldn't find the damn scroll um Matt just out of curiosity do you have any uh stats on how many people that really officially said they couldn't get logged in that night versus the amount we online only I've had thus far is the the single one but I will let Grace answer if she has any other complaints as well all right thank you hey Grace no unfortunately this complaint was filed uh on the 30th day um and it was I didn't receive it until the 31st day uh and our current Zoom settings are set to automatically delete um us user reports after 30 days I'm working on trying to get all the accounts set up so that's Now 60 days as a result of this conversation unfortunately I cannot tell you exactly how many people went to the incorrect Zoom room that was only posted for 15 minutes about um but the only complaint we've received was uh this open meeting lot complaint we have not received any complaints from anybody who was unable to access the meeting Ria go ahead is that is answer you Christine you're good okay Matt was you may take your hand down so I can't tell if you're trying to keep asking questions or not I'm crying I'm sorry sorry I just don't know sorry Matt was it my understanding when you sent out this notes about um this meeting complaint that each of us was going to have some time to make a statement that's what I originally read in your well that that that's what you can do now I mean I guess this is where we are I mean it was everybody could have a chance to weigh in again it's it may or may not you know change my response but if there was something unique but at the end of the day I'm the one that has to respond to the complaint as it's on me all right well for the record may I read my statement then sure go Ahad okay in regards to the open meeting law violation complaint submitted to the Massachusetts Attorney General concerning our December 11th 2024 meeting the last minute change to the zoom link caused delays and disruptions including for myself at the time I assumed it was an internet issue on my end only later to realize I had been using the wrong link had I not taken the extra steps to track down the updated link I might not have been able to participate at all Mass ch's open meeting law clearly states that meeting notices include remote access links and must be posted at least 48 hours in advance this requirement exists to ensure transparency and Public Access both of which were compromised during the December 11th meeting I believe this committee must take responsibility for the violation and ensure that all future meetings remain fully accessible to the public more importantly we should follow through on our initial commitment to review the bylaws rather than finalize them prematurely safety for all in Lake Lola deserves a more thorough and transparent review thank you thanks R Grace you have your hand up I want to clarify an important point about open meeting law open meeting law does not require us to post links to Virtual meetings in the agenda that is something that we do as a practice here in shutesbury going above and beyond the requirements of the law Lots well I shouldn't say lots lots of small towns the smallest towns which we are a part of which is uh not necessarily lots of towns but um a lot of towns that are similar size to us uh make people uh uh don't provide links to remote meetings on their agendas and open meeting law uh permits that towns require people to request links to remote meetings from chairs or the town clerk that is an option that is available to us it's not something we do because even though we're a very small town we have a very active participatory citizenry and so we we go above and beyond to make it our meetings accessible to the public by doing remote meetings and by making the links of our meetings available in our agendas I want to be clear that's not a requirement of the open meeting law I would also like to point out that it is permissible within the open meeting law to change the location of a meeting um if if that weren't permissible it would be completely infeasible for us to hold any meetings whether those be remote or in person what I'd like to suggest to people as a metaphor here is if you think about it as an in-person meeting uh if you show up to town hall for an inperson meeting and the doors are locked and the person who has the key is late that day what you do is you go to a different room to hold your meeting and you post a a sign on the door on the first door saying that that's where you were going to have your meeting and that you've moved to this new room and then the person with the key shows up and so you guys go back to the first room and you post a notice on the door saying we're back at the first room that is exactly the same thing that happened in this instance on the December 11th meeting the right link was posted originally there was a miscommunication an incorrect link was posted for a period of about 15 minutes and then the correct link was posted again anybody who was interested in what exactly happened there could have easily received notice of that either by signing up for the notices or by refreshing their web page so I think it's important to understand that a um there really wasn't an open meeting law violation here and B uh if there there was an open meeting law violation here that doesn't affect any of the other work that the committee does that's merely an issue with posting Dave go ahead uh just to move things along I have a motion on the floor to go to ex session next meeting to discuss this amongst the committee if we don't get the section the a second the motion dies so I just wanted to move that I second it oh did you Judy second it earlier okay so can we get a vote on that so we can move off of that and then maybe finally conclude this meeting seeing it's 810 y I mean I need to we need we can do that so I mean it's not going to change my response I need to make that I understand that I'm respond as I'm as I've been counseled externally I need to address the open meeting I need to address the open meeting complaint as is as it's written is what going to do right that's what I've been advised to do by my my peers my people I've looked into this and that's what I need to stick with and I don't want to and I don't want anything to be misconstrued in any way the complaint is the complaint I'm responding to the complaint that's I think request Matt my request for an open for committee private session is discuss the process of how this committee functions given that the complaint came from a member of the committee it has nothing to do with what I think was not a violation of an open bylaw that's why I put my motion on the floor we have a second from Judy let's continue this okay for what it's worth want vote we want to vote on a having an executive session on our next on our next um next agenda we would put that on for I most likely put it toward I guess I'll put it on the end of the agenda I guess so that for doing other things people can chime in early but let's go through the we're going to vote on it wait Mark ahead sorry I say just one believe needs to be unanimous I believe that was what was said so anybody can sync this so for the the idea of this would allow us to have a private discussion amongst the committee to hear out what Dave would like to discuss uh in the privacy of the committee about the process of going to the attorney general with this with this complaint from an internal from someone on our committee yep all right and then I just if well I will worry about it if it passes all right go ahead all right I'll do roll call Brazil you're muted I don't agree with moving forward with that you do or you don't I miss that I do not agree moving forward with that executive meeting then it's done then it's done got it okay okay with um good question so Dave has something he wants to discuss I don't know if we want give him the opportunity to put it to the agenda in the public forum for next meeting uh if that's something he's interested in no I'm good okay all right Kathy you had your hand up yeah I'm just curious um as to when we think we might get an answer from the Attorney General's office and the reason I ask is because we haven't seen minutes from that meeting you know for all of these reasons the complaint Etc um is there a limit to how much time can pass before we have to post minutes I'll let Grace I'll let Grace chime in here in a second but my external counsel told me that minutes need to be produced for the minute for the meeting and be voted on in a timely manner which means that they should be produced if the Attorney General was to Grant it an open meeting law violation in the future upon their investigation or their determination then they would then be stricken that's what I that's what I was Counsel on but Grace I don't know if you have any information on that the mid wouldn't be stricken there's no reason why any open meeting law complaint would affect the writing and approval process for minutes um the Attorney General's office may say in extreme situations which I don't think applies here uh that a border committee must uh redo any actions they took at a meeting that they believe uh was in compliant with open meeting law I have only seen that remedy used in situations where a board or committee met completely outside of public view to make a decision um so since that's not what happened here I I don't think it's likely that that remedy would be uh suggested by the Attorney General's office either way the minutes still need to be taken and and reviewed by the committee and voted upon and usually usually it it it can take uh up to or more than 6 months for the Attorney General's office to make a decision on an open meeting LW complaint so then can we get those minutes for uh approval at the next meeting Tom uh with the understanding that the Attorney General May undo stuff at a future date so yeah absolutely thanks okay so we had the 124 and also the other ones on no member ones as well well to Tom I think we need to produce those next meeting if we could yeah you have the November ones if I look and maybe uh Grace could uh let me know Grace we have we had a meeting on November 26th a virtual meeting and there's no minutes on the town website for those and then now we're talking about the December 11th and then now we'll have you know today's you know or january8 have been approved today so those will be ready to go on December 11th uh we voted on the November 26th minutes uh okay I got it all set but I haven't sent them off because I didn't know what the resolution conversation would be um the December 11th minutes aren't prepared yet I will prepare okay yeah it's it's so I I've been through enough open meeting law complaints at this point to know that I can't necessarily predict what the ago is going to say I will point out this complaint has not been filed with the ago as of yet uh it has only been filed with this board at this point um Tom if you're planning to after the response that is issued by the board if you're planning to refer it to the ago I would just say that um uh a complaint about uh a change in location is very much unlikely to result in a determination that the actions taken at that meeting were um invalidated by the change in location especially because all members of the committee and multiple members of the cup public were able to attend um that being said you know the ago's office when they review an open meeting law complaint they're not re uh restricted to the subject of the complaint they can dig into when they dig into a meeting they can uh say well this the subject of the complaint wasn't a violation but this other thing you guys did was a violation you know you never know what they're going to say um hear to retract the complaint well the important thing is uh that uh you know we still are taking minutes and filing and approving those minutes in a timely fashion I'd also just say that you know anytime in an O open meeting or complaint is as raised it's it's really an opportunity for us to look at our procedures and think about what we can do better um well I do not believe that the that changing of location given the procedures we have in place to alert the public to any changes of location for a meeting invalidates the meeting posting um you know one of the issues raised in the complaint was that the the link that was closed uh the waiting room should have been visited to check and that's that's always just good practice and that's a good reminder for all of us I think and not just this board and committee but all board and committees because lots of us have these kinds of technical issues there are tons of reasons why a zoom link might change last minute you know and we we should always double check to make sure nobody's stuck in a another waiting room before we close that meeting that's just a good reminder going forward for all of us but it doesn't raise to the level certainly doesn't raise to the level of invalidating any actions taken by the committee which I I watched the December 11th M committee uh recording and I was fairly impressed by how you guys conducted yourselves I thought you guys were doing a really good job Matt I'm just asking again does that mean that Tom has the opportunity to ret to just not file this and we can just leave it gone here given the guidance that we've gotten from Grace the so when a complainant files an open meeting LW complaint uh they file it with the Border committee the Border committee has 14 days to respond respond to the complaint they have to issue a response to the complaintant if the complainant the complaintant then can be either satisfied with the response of the Border committee or they can refer their complaint to the Attorney General's office in which case the Attorney General's office will review the complaint the review process by the ago based on our past experience and you know uh usually takes a few weeks to a few months uh I think the longest time we were waiting was nine months either way you guys should definitely not wait on the ago for a response in order to keep conducting your business CU again it might it might be September or October before they respond Christin go ahead hi um I just by the way Tom thank you I know you did a lot of research on this and the same with everybody on this committee especially Tom it's it was very timec consuming I'm sure and my biggest concern moving forward is that we are going into February already time is flying and to keep stagnant where we are I think is more detrimental to everything then if we move forward we all agree and I I don't think anybody here is going to disagree with the fact that and including the chief that education is critical to get people to understand what's happening and with us kind of going back and forth with this whole thing with and what Grace has said I think it's pretty clear in in what I'm seeing that we need to just move forward and we we've got to start getting to where we need to get to get the education out there all of our time is valuable we have spent a lot of time going back and forth on this it has been disc several times I've seen the notes I've seen my notes it's time to move forward and we just got to just keep going we're not going to wait till like she said wait until September it it would be frutal and you guys have spent so much time on all your research all the discussions that is my recommendation to let's just move forward and get on to the next step that's going to be a benefit to the public benefit to every person that lives on the lake and anyone that visits everything that goes along with it and the chief has been very very accommodating and one of the key things that she is I'm speaking for you which you really made a very valid point is the education whether it's training to be voting safety whatever the case may be it's all education and information and that's what we need to do next because this is starting to get very stagnant and I I think it's a mot point mark I'd like to make a motion to adjourn the meeting as we are now 23 minutes past the allotted time which was already an extended meeting second thank you right let's go down the roll call here really quick and grab my notes Here Brazil brassel yay I brassel nobody pronounces it right it's okay all right all right have an e at the end not an i no my um green I lean hi reml hi Rivers hi Salvador hi seert hi when caller I and myself I take care folks okay folks I will get back to everybody once we know what the town recommends and we will uh set another agenda thank you thanks all let