Oh, >> okay. Should I start over? Yeah. Oh, okay. Sorry. Morning everybody. Today is February 19th, 2026. This is a meeting of the MN Spear Reuse Committee. Um, and we it's a
hybrid meeting that is beinged. I'll just quickly go through the agenda. Um, we have minutes first from February 5th. Um Susie Mosha is going to talk about her discussions for health. Paul Lions um
present his lists of possible paths for the library building, former library building. Um talk about a presentation to the select board and then a discussion of next steps. um discuss Alan Weiss's questions
and if there's any unanticipated business. Anybody have anything else? >> I did I I just wanted to have a discussion about public input and what our plans are for that. >> I assume that's a plan for community engagement. >> Oh, >> that's sort of the public input.
>> Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Um anything else? Okay. Um, so thank you all. Um, I did go through the the minutes. Sounds like it
was a pretty um full meeting that you had on February 5th. Uh, so do I hear a motion to approve the meeting minutes of February 5th, 2026? So moved. >> Second.
>> Okay. Um, any edits, any changes to the minutes? Thank you for doing a um thorough job, Brennan. Appreciate that. And having them done for the next meeting. Um so motion's been made and seconded to approve the minutes um of
February 5th, 2026. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Moer I. >> Lions I. >> Thson I. >> A feral eye. >> You abstain. >> Well, you know, it was very clear. I could have stayed, but I trust that
these were done well. Okay. >> And that's basically what a Haley um communicated. No, because we talked about it the other night. If you have you have confidence that the minutes were done thoughtfully and thoroughly, you can vote and lack of presence. Yes.
>> Um okay. So Susie, you're up first um to tell us about followup with the board of health because we did have one meeting with them and right then >> so like a lot of things there's not a way to track back this information on
the water system in town hall. Um D has does not have a way of fetching back that information. So um even if they I'm not positive that they were even really involved in that. So we don't know um
>> this is about the capacity of the town well and its ability to its yield and its capacity to recover. >> What we did discuss last meeting is that we don't um see any major increase in the draw of that
building if it is just a meeting one because the meetings would be either held here or held there. So, um, and I don't have any, there's no border health awareness that there was ever trouble here. Like, it didn't go dry. It wasn't
drought related. So, no, we don't have the information and it is likely not to have a significant impact in the way we understand it unless we go for something that's more continuous use. But again, if you went to the police station, the
police is here now. So if they're using water across the street, it wouldn't be a big difference. >> Henry Gettys has just joined us. Want to >> say there? >> Um >> do we know certain that there is no well
completion report available via the board of health? I mean did did they search for that? Do you know? Um she went so I said to her this is the information we're need yield and recovery rate and she looked in the
sources that they have access to which is their own files and D and there's no there's no way there's no information available nothing there and she said that's always been true about the D files they're not accessible in a way
that you can check back but she did Right. >> Right. Okay. But the board of health has a whole file of well completion reports >> going back a certain, you know, certain ways at least. And I I guess I'd still
>> Okay, I'll turn right that I don't know >> if they have checked on that. I mean, I don't know that they have them, you know, ordered in any way where you can just kind of zip right, you know, go right to it in the file. I last time I looked at them, which was many many years ago now, it was just a big folder full of them and I had to just kind of
go through them myself. >> Okay, let me let me do that. >> And what were those Paul exactly from >> well completion report? So when the well is first drilled, >> okay, >> the the driller, you know, will uh record all kinds of information, you know, how deep the well was, what kind
of substrate they encountered at at different levels, what the yield was at the time, how many gallons per minute, you know, all of that. So I think that's the kind of thing Alan Weiss would probably really want to see if it's available. Okay.
Anything um else from the board of health special agency? >> Uh no. Um I didn't see that. I didn't pay attention to would it likely permit the con connection. I thought we had had
that discussion. Um would it likely permit the connection to the church's 1500gallon septic system for the spear spilling use? I didn't ask that question. I didn't remember that being a question I was supposed to follow up on. So,
>> um, >> I asked u Warner about this question and he referred us to the board of health. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> But yeah, I could pursue it with all again. >> No, I it's a board of health issues. I I
will find out, but I thought we had that cleared. And and by the way, I did um check with Chris foot as I said I would do last time and he did confirm that the septic system is on the east side of the church rather than the west as I had
erroneously recorded. >> It's on the east side on the where the um >> fire escape. >> Fire escape is y elevator. Yeah. Okay. And the other side is in the wells in the in the common >> south right
>> west part of the common. >> So there's nothing on the other side >> the big tree. Yeah. >> Um >> okay I does it make sense to move up just the Allen kind of your reactions to Alan Weiss because I wanted to hear from
you guys about or do we want to where it is in the agenda? Part of what happened last week was understanding that if the path goes this way, then it has more to do with his concerns. If the path goes that way, those are not concerns that we're going to have to wrestle with. That's
>> where we were at. >> Um so, so maybe we should talk about the paths then. Um, is that something that somebody was sort of starting to sketch out after the last meeting or
we doing that now? >> This is the That's what this paper is. >> Yeah, it right. The next agenda item number three kind of addresses that to some deg >> Oh, here it is. I'm sorry. I didn't see it.
>> Um, okay. Do you want to Paul, did you draft this? >> No, Susie drafted it. Okay. So, I do not want to take credit for this. I edited it a little bit and sent it around, but Susie >> And you also oriented it more towards
this is a report we're thinking preparing for the select board. So, it has that preface. I did >> I did a part of it, but not >> and I think that that's what we thought we were heading towards. How do you present this information? Yes.
>> So that people can understand >> what the factors are. So it was became an if then. >> Okay. So it um do you want to just do a quick summary for um for us? I mean, this is great having this detailed here,
but basically how how you laid it how you laid it out and um so in the paragraph that um that Paul wrote, a central question is the committee's discussions related to the decision about adding the bathroom
and then um the committee felt it was desirable and for what reasons. But then the following groups um number one is if we p pursue the bathroom option when we looked at different ways we could pursue
that and then two if there was no bathroom option um how that how that would affect our um the options for the town. and then um broke off
um the discussion about the police station because that has been sort of one of the ones that's going up and down and so number three if it's in the spear and number four if it's downstairs. So that's how it's organized and and it tried to I tried to incorporate the
information that we had discovered for each of those pieces and sort them out to be this is over here, this is over here, this is over here. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. I was uh surprised at the $100,000 figure that because
I mean not surprised but not surprised. um at the uh at VS that Steven Delmas had. Um >> and that's a pretty >> fairly rough estimate. >> Yeah, very rough. Um, >> as a builder, she would want to say, "Oh
my gosh, this what you're looking at." But >> so, um, I know we need to, um, both do something to the select board and
then to the larger community. Um, and I'm wondering if you know what the what the format is. Is this the format for presenting to the um to the select
board and do we want to make any kind of initial take? our our take is on either either of these paths. So, do we do maybe starting with the you know, do we do a bathroom and um and then that opens
up, you know, more uses um and do we think about relocating uh the police department or for that matter any other departments over to the MN Spear building?
I I've been thinking a bit about this lately and I guess um in relation to our you know upcoming discussion about our plan for community engagement. >> I I felt it was really important for us to steer clear of any recommendations.
At this point I I like the if then you know approach where if we decide to put a bathroom in then this. If we don't put a bathroom in then that. So just lay out the options without a recommendation. That would be my preference.
>> Yeah. And you did have in that second paragraph, the committee felt that a functional bathroom is desirable, but I liked that um in your reddrafting or your editing of this that I sent to you, you specifically listed a no bathroom
option, which I think we were beginning to skip over. And I don't think that that's really our um that's not a clear path. That's not clearly our path. >> Yeah. >> Right. I I think that helped to say if
there's no bathroom, this is what it looks like. >> Right. >> Yeah. And in that second paragraph up above, you know, I afterwards I was think I was thinking, well, maybe instead of saying a bathroom is desirable, we should have said a bathroom
>> provides more options. Yeah. As I said, maybe even remove that word desirable, >> right? To say takeout is desirable and say provides more options. >> Yeah. I think that when this comes in front of public discussion
that is that will be one of the choices people will forward um and now they have path of what that's like >> what would be um what would be good to know so we have we have figures
here around the you dollar signs attached to the bathroom option. What we don't have is dollar signs um attached to anything else beyond the bathroom or any kind of
rough estimate beyond just installing the bathroom. What other upgrades are necessary? Let's say we were creating we putting the police station in there. So, and that it seemed like what
um discussion centered around that if we use it and we have to upgrade to the building code to the current building code that only with our next plans do we is it could we reach a potential cost
but maybe if we had a range because I think it's it's hard to compare um you know doing something here say for the police station versus doing something over there. Is that $100,000 too? Are we talking about
the same basically the same amount of money? Right. Or >> I think that what what doing this process was for me is that where we had a builder specifically look at this work and come up with a number. We deferred
doing that for the spear building to make it a police station because we didn't we actually have it set in number one which is architect plans would be needed. Um and what we could ballpark is
that section four doesn't include a bathroom. Bathrooms are already here. >> So yeah. >> Yeah. So right thing >> um M >> some of the things in section 4 wouldn't
apply to spear like asbestous flooring. >> Um >> no, but he was just saying, wasn't he saying that if we if we did everything here >> um and we're not talking about any anything over there, it's $100,000 one
through eight, right? If we're doing spear building and we're pursuing a bathroom, uh, basically there are all kinds of figures here. Titang 10,000 or full septic systems 30 well
in trench under Coolieville Road. So if you start adding those up, what I'm saying is that just with the bathroom alone, >> right, >> for that building, >> I'm so I think maybe a number,000 is 73
>> when it says if it's relocated and it starts out saying we need architect plans, >> there will be renovation costs. We don't have understood yet. So we need to say that there's costs there >> above and beyond the bathroom. Yeah,
>> but we start with the base cost of the bathroom. I don't know. Somebody else add add this up would how you read this. >> 80,000,000. >> But it's not they're two of separate options though. Yeah. >> Right. >> So if you could say for
>> Yeah. Because >> did he didn't say anything about drilling a new well on the >> it's >> on the town common >> in three. >> Well, we could drill a new well. What is the cost? Oh. Oh, there's a question mark. We don't have a we don't have a
cost. >> Don't Didn't he mention throw out a cost to us? Uh >> I mean, you know, I I think of like $20,000 as a like a ballpark. I mean, you know, so unpredictable, you know, with a well, how far down you going to
have to go? And hydrogen paragraph. >> Oh, yeah. 15. Okay. For with pumps and electric and new well is 15,000 with pumps and electric.
>> We don't know. >> Well, $15,000. Okay. I guess that includes the drilling too. >> Yeah. And then and then the tie into the bathroom, is that a separate costs?
>> I believe so. Yeah. I just I'm not sure we can get so detailed, >> but Susie, if we want to come I'm I'm just saying if we want to have like I think if we don't have dollar signs kind of at least a range, it's everybody's
going to say, well, I don't know, you know, what is it going to cost us? And maybe we we pick based on >> Yeah. And >> you know, it's partially on cost. So, I'm just trying to get some sort of, >> you know, outline and obviously it's going to change, but, you know, are we
comparing two options here, um, that is essentially the same amount of money? I mean, it feels to me that's probably where it's going to land. If this is $100,000, I could see that. But
um you know if we have some cost associated with the water and >> right I I think two two there are two big question marks uh with that that issue. One is um you know the septic system I you know my sense is that
>> there's a good chance we'll be able to tie into the church septic system. So those costs full septic system $30,000 you can probably you know eliminate that. Secondly is the police station question if a police well station is
going to be built there. >> Who knows? You know, that's when the architect plans come in. You know, all kinds of code requirements, you know, kick in and we could be talking about some big money. Just talking about a police office, >> you know, not so much. So,
>> when you say police office versus a police, you're differentiating between a police office and a police station. Yes. >> Yeah. And where did that all come? Was that uh from Stephen? I think his discussion with the building inspector,
>> right? There is a difference. >> Full-fledged police station has certain requirements. Just having an office space for the police like we do here basically does not have all those requirements. >> No, but it does say. And so when we
listed this um section three number three is it would is already a security system here but it's part of the building and it's part of the office. And then the booking room is a new piece
that they are already intending whether it's in this building or that building. Um >> where where are you? Um >> in section three >> section three aft. Okay. >> And in number three and four, three
would not be um >> Oh, I see what you mean. >> Only about a police station. It would be we already in a police office. We have some security system. But what is different is for the booking room and secure storage.
um would be additional to that building and the booking room was already here and that's called secure storage. >> What do you mean? >> Well, there's both that one.
>> No, that's secure storage and there is um evidence room booking. They have an evidence room, but they don't have a booking room. >> That's what I'm saying. Booking room would be additional, >> right? And that's not just doing a police office as we have here just moved
over there. We move it over there. He wants a booking room here, >> right? >> He wants a I mean that it seems to me that's what the chief was asking for was a police station, not just for his officers. Well, if you have a booking room, what what's the difference between
a station, >> right? And that's a builder's building inspector's competition and he's a he's a police officer. So it's there's pieces that are sort of floating about here coming from different points of view. >> But what we do know is that
>> Devin is saying um security systems would be needed. He wants a booking room and secure storage areas which would include the evidence room which is already up there secure. And that thing over there, he was calling that part of the storage that would need to be
secured as if that's already secure. >> We had the same question at at our last meeting with, you know, the actual difference between those two terms and um and Stephen didn't have the answer from the building inspector. We're kind of thinking that we might that Devon might be here and he might be able to
shed some light on it, but he didn't make the meeting. So, um, so yeah, we I >> that seems like a fine that seems like a fine building fine point made by the building inspector versus like Devon cuz >> probably >> as what we have always talked about as
having a police office. >> Well, we >> that's what we have upstairs. >> We were calling it I think the police station before we realized that that might not be the term we want to use. I guess what makes it into a police
station versus we need to understand >> is it the booking room? Is it the a bigger evidence room? It just seems to me like >> uh we're splitting hairs here a little bit and and it would be nice if we could
understand how you differentiate offices versus station. >> And I'm not sure that Devon has a perspective relative to building codes. he has perspective in terms of functions >> and then probably he should talk to um
Jim Hawkins because >> that's it's an interpretive dance and they need to both be dancing. Um, okay. >> So, anyway, I think the bottom line is that it's going to be extremely difficult to go to the select board and
say option A, X dollars, option B, X dollars, Y dollars. We I don't think we can get to that point, Rita, and though I know that's what you'd like to do. >> Yeah, I think it just it help it helps focus the discussion. So, >> they're going to end up with questions and then we back.
>> Yeah. Well, I think to the public, >> you know, I I think if the message is we without more due diligence, we don't have definitive answers like without a um you know, some of the things that came up in here without architectural
plans um that somebody could, you know, really take and um and without, you know, getting the survey, I was trying to remember what else, you know, he had recommended, but um it's probably time
appropriate to lay this out, you know, and sort of say this is where we've gotten to. We've done, you know, all this this research um and then what's the pleasure of Yeah. on board
and and get some public input. Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah, I think we need we need to get more focused so that we can then really delve into, you know, where we are going. >> We want to spend money. Yeah. We want to
spend money pursuing one or both of these options because the next thing seems to me is, you know, it's going to cost it's going to cost some money. So, I don't know if you know this. I I sort of just stumbled upon it when I was reading the paper that you
know leverage has been looking at the reuse of their um they saw that >> and that's I gather that's been going on for a while Brennan do you know? >> Yeah. >> Wall Street. So, we don't want to go on for a few
years, but you know, they finally hired somebody from a guy from Northfield and um uh I think they were still in the process of looking at options. So, I
think we can do that. You know, that's >> that's not anything above our pay grade. where I think we start to get into um a place where we need professional help is that architect engineer um you know an
Allen Weiss type person on on some of the site stuff and um I guess you know I think we have enough to say we go one of two routes here the you know here's here's what
we've learned um we have you know some super rough numbers for like part of it, but we don't we wouldn't have anything more re really that you could put your arms around until we got some more um third party assistance in the form of a
architect/cost estimator and um the site site purse. One thing I think that got linked here that I'm not sure when we send it to the select board and do public information is the link of we
studied the storage need the office needs space needs. If we don't if we choose a stage of just using that for meetings it doesn't necessitate that we move the offices
around here. That's correct. >> We may want to say something. Well, and he does say um Paul wrote the paragraph. So he said um the existing space in town hall is not considered adequate for some functions,
for example, the police department. Um and that we would likely we would likely have and it's not necessarily precipitated by moving the police there or not there. There seemed to be a notion of
using the space in this building more optimally. Yes. Regardless of what happens over there. And I think somehow we need he said it here, but it's still linked to whether they're here or not here. And I think it's not actually only coming from that idea that they
move over there or they move here. Um, at some point giving adequate space to them and there and all of the subsequent dominoes that fell after is a separate sort of piece to this that we might need
to clarify. And it and the town could say, "Nope, use that for small space. Don't put the $100,000 here. Just keep going." Yeah. >> And somehow they that has to be um I think that
can be framed. >> Yeah. I mean maybe it's the three levels, right? Everything sort of stays the same with the exception of we make the um the MN spear building available for meetings and do
whatever kind of minor upgrades. Second level is we um we do a police station in here and um and we still do, you know, the upgrades. And then the third is the
police department gets moved over to the MN Spear building and all the costs associated with that and we leave town hall alone. what we >> except we have to just deal with the the but it seems like those are three paths we could go
>> and maybe um you know we can roughly say yes this is the cheapest this is you know we think is the and I think that the two options of adapting this space and as I said dealing with stat base over there are going to be similar in
cost significant, right? Um, so >> I mean it seems to me as though we could recommend the no bathroom option cost that out and get that ball rolling. We have we have the the data from Stephen from earlier on in our conversations.
And I think it would be good >> bathroom over there. >> I think it would be good to do some things over there. winterizing, >> you know, making making the heating a little bit more efficient, you know, >> and and whatever >> for the CPC like there there's some bas
Yeah. So, there's some basic stuff that that he recommended that you could maybe say, you know, this is not unaffordable. >> We're talking we're talking about that. >> Yes. Expense. >> Exactly. And then and then think about the other bigger things once we've got
some more public support. I think >> the police are functioning as it is, I believe. >> But yeah, they're they're functioning as is, but they're saying it's not ideal and they're concerned going into the future for some of the post requirements, the um state oversight.
>> Question about that. I just occurred to me, you know, if there might be any savings on on that end of it that of course they're going to ask for, you know, the best possible the best of all possibility. Uh-huh. savings um
>> savings things that they could accommodate as savings ra you wouldn't have to institute necessarily. >> You mean upstairs like that if they stayed upstairs? >> I guess in either scenario that they could do without let's say >> Yeah.
>> It always goes in the other direction, Henry. >> I know. Yes, it does. nonetheless from >> some of it's driven by what what they see as as um as the future requirements made by say post commission of saying
you know we got to we got to uh professionalize our >> you know it's always been about professionalizing the the staff as well as the where they were >> have a small toe
>> yes now I know I I get it I'm Um I so one of the pro pieces of the process to me is about allowing the town to move through this in stages
>> and um >> but understanding the weight of each piece. So just using the spear for meetings um with no bathroom. We did have um furnace would be replaced with mini
splits technology for meeting. Uh this is what is this um two >> two one >> two one >> that's true. >> Oh yeah. Okay. >> And so that's goes to what Mary Joe is saying. Um and
um I think I think we don't always need to have the amounts but we can say this would be a low impact low cost. >> I have to be careful about low cost >> lower cost lower cost. I mean people can see that sort of in the weight of what it it entails
>> right. >> Um >> but then we will raise even if we do it in stages will raise the issue of most efficiently using the space in here and then that launches police station downstairs
>> right >> and the police station at the spear. And those will be cost comparisons because once so if the police moved over there this space is not optimally used. >> That's correct. >> In particular so if that's a goal it's
not >> changed. We are still in the same place. >> We were the ones that raised it that this space was not optimally used. Right. Right. I mean which I think was a Yeah. I mean this committee this committee. Yeah. Well, and we were doing
it in order to solve the other problem. Yes, it's not they're all related. They're all related. >> I can see people in town saying, you know, you don't have to do anything. It's like, it's true. We do not have to use this fuzz space optimally. Although, I would
>> opt if we didn't move the police out of upstairs. Like, there are some pretty being up TC, there's some pretty bad space issues and they're not getting any better. they get worse. >> So, um
>> so there is a there is some um >> drive or reasoning for reconfiguring the space in in town hall because it isn't it isn't it isn't optimal and there are security issues there are confidentiality issues there's a bunch
of >> right >> stuff re reasons for >> right >> um >> so that that has some weight to me confidentiality >> better office space for functions like
town clerk blah blah blah >> yeah so >> interface even with the public right now you know the town clerk is it's really inadequate >> yeah don't have so somehow that has I feel should be represented in terms of >> weight
>> and then and they all get to blow it out and say no nope we're not going to change anything we're going to leave it as that's their decision but I I feel like we can't not represent those aspects. >> So, so would that be um within the options that we lay out
>> um you know re reasons to go this path. Maybe it would be called pros and cons. Yeah, but if in at the end of each section, um pros and cons or something like that,
>> but you know, we're not I think Paul is um I I agree with Paul that we should steer clear of any kind of overly weighted comments. >> Yeah,
>> that sounds like a recommend. lay out lay out our research >> and not come up with a recommendation, but rather just lay out what's >> here are the here are the factors, here are the things you need to think about these paths that we take. um
>> you know what if we you we went out to the public to get their comments and this strongly you know strong response was nope we don't want to spend that money you know just do what you can you know reusing that for office for meeting space and the select board said okay
we've heard the public that's it you know that's what we're going to do I mean it it seems like we shouldn't be spending a whole lot of time you know researching some of these difficult questions you know before we know that you know and and that's a distinct
possibility in my mind. So >> my my only hesitation about that is you know we have a public meeting and so 30 or 40 people come that's not representative of the whole town >> and um and town meeting might go in a totally different direction. So it's
really ultimately town meeting that that just board in the middle you know >> in the middle and fin would make recommendations in terms of where the money's at. I mean, it's in a context, but you're right. Any meeting is weighted by who shows up, >> right?
>> And the other piece is that by having a public meeting, other people get to voice some of their wishes. We had other wishes in our list. This become a museum. This become a take it or leave it. This become so some of
that is gonna um be seen or heard. Um and it's not, you know, we don't have to wait that at all. I just but but I guess um I wonder if if the issues around using space effectively and resolving
some of the other problems still needs to be incorporated in the picture we're offering as a pros and cons. Um yeah, I think we incorporate pros and cons. I'm wondering if there's any way
to um to to compress this into a chart. There's always so much you did for the records. >> Yeah, >> that's why we did it that way. >> Yeah, >> because you're moving too much
information. I mean, yeah, I that that you have this as a as the add agendum, right, with the all the notes like if somebody wants to say, well, how did you read that conclusion to reach that conclusion? Um, that you, >> you know, have have this, you have an
annotated say >> chart, but Lisa, the chart puts the three things up there and across this. I'm not exactly sure what the say, but you know, addresses pros and
cons. Um, just general, you know, cost. Where is this high, medium, low? Um, and and then you have the this is a reference. I don't have my copy of the record
storage chart. No, >> no, >> none of the I um I didn't print it out. I It could get brought up in people's I actually Brennan could bring it up with the >> uh Nope. That's the building. I
>> I'm pretty sure it's not here because I >> it >> um I No, I recommended that people see it. Just put it up on the screen right now if you want because it's it's archived. Um and you can see how that's organized and see if
>> how to modify it to our purpose. It's not small endeavor. >> And Rita, are you thinking of something for the select board or for the public? >> Something for the select board. I think I think the sequence that makes sense is
to go to the select board first and then have a public um and we could even do it you know one of the things rather than making a bunch more meetings. Um, you know, we we could could piggyback
could piggyback it on to a select board meeting and saying, you know, we're setting aside 45 minutes or, you know, some discreet amount of time because um this is a long enough, but if it makes you >> makes it easy, >> you're saying it's a public input part. Uh, >> yeah,
>> piggy back on the select board. >> Yeah. So, we do the report to the select board. It's like a report to the select board and to the community at the same time. then seek and read feedback. Yeah. >> Yeah. Do it once. Get get feedback. Then the select board is there to hear what
um folks in the community are saying too and then we decide next steps after that. So if we try to make a chart out of this, we use these four the same four categories or
>> I think the four categories are >> no bathroom MN spear building becomes a whatever. >> Yeah, >> this is how we organized the record request chart.
>> Um the record storage chart. So there was you could do a renovation and here's different ones you could do a new construction here's different ones and here's some of the concepts we discovered while doing this and everything got um
rated by things that we were looking at. So the things we're looking at for the cost of of uh the MM spear ore down here would include like security uh heat
water and septic blah blah blah. I think um took us a while to figure that one out. It would take a while to figure out the next one. >> So I think the three are and I think that's a good way of looking at it. It it's the three are
um M and Spear standalone you know use for public or use for meetings or whatever no bathroom. Uh >> then the second option is is
um police station >> police offic station >> remain is is uh relocated. >> Oh and I guess with that one is no changes with the police station, right? No other no other changes. Just to do
the >> just spear building. We're just like saying we're going to do something with it. We're ignoring over here. Next option is to um relocate police offices slash station
inside town hall to downstairs. And then the third option is to relocate the police station slash offices to the men spear building. I think actually it it would be one like you said and two
would be police at spear and three would be police at mall just because it's talking about spear ball. >> Yep. >> Y >> and then um and then as I said have um
you know we have a bunch of information here. I think what what goes across um at the top is um >> yeah I don't know what gets grouped into
like cost versus utility do you know what I mean what you know what what are the issues with doing >> yeah so >> going that route so >> water septic >> water septic yes and um and
rehabilitation needs there's something, you know, general about renovations. Y >> and and then um >> includes remediation. >> Well, remediation cost probably. Yeah,
>> renovation cost. >> It's a renovation cost. Yeah. Anything else? Um >> scary. Um how about do we want to put anything
with regard to public access or public you know what I sort of interface with the public >> you know is by leaving the you know leaving everything as is with the police station up there I mean they feel that that's a that that's an that that's an
issue down >> here put it back up on the screen the the thing that happened is we worked we had the fact that the state actually requires certain things under record storage and so they had asterisk
asterisks but then um we had some other things that I think were not did not have an asterisk and then we had observations at the bottom because not everything fits into a tight little box right >> um >> and and that I think as we're putting
that together then yes we're doing pros and too. So, the pros and cons of going >> any of those those paths. >> Well, so that might be
um >> I think we keep it general, right? Without getting too much into the weeds, >> right? >> I'm trying to think where how you look at that chart. Where would you put the pros and cons under current uses and conflicts or? >> Yeah, I would just make it like pros is
one as one column and then cons, >> but those would be words. >> Those would be words >> and and so that's makes it I'm thinking of how >> it doesn't it doesn't get quite as neat as this, but it's still because we're only talking about three um sections.
Um or or we could I'm just trying to think of if if it makes sense to I I still think it makes sense to put the pros and cons in that format even though it's more >> so maybe under the where it says current uses and conflicts it would be more like
pros and cons and sentences over there >> and um so there's one that says public use and that um that maybe it would be called public interface. Yeah. >> Um I don't know. I'm not trying to adapt
that one. I'm trying to remember the process that ended up causing those things those different columns and how it worked. Um >> well, we started with a draft. Maybe we could edit it. You know, everybody could look at it to say, "Does this make sense?"
um you know you're you're looking at it and saying okay if I'm coming in cold if you're explaining this to me is this is this presentation tell our story and the couple observations I mean if you think about
it we we've sort of been framing this from the get-go in terms of what we do with that building >> yes >> so that became the the the the point of departure and then of course then we
have folks who are interested in that building. So that that our priority then was to research those things. We haven't researched other functions or possibilities. >> That's right. So, so one another web framing would might say well
you know in terms of the umbrella concept being optimizing use of our spaces in ge you know administered spaces
it's a frame that says well you were just saying that perhaps We could refurbish this building. It that needs storage space and need and maybe future uses, >> right?
We have limited funds. So that might be a better umbrella concept. >> Yeah. So you're making me think that one of the things we could add to this is sort of what our goals were and and
thinking through the options. So optimizing space >> would be >> so can you scroll back up a little bit in those observ discoveries any space should be used and the second one was really true a
good solution should solve multiple problems >> yes >> um >> and so I think discoveries whatever we going to call it I think discoveries is sort of interesting but goals >> um yes we I like any space should be
used when it's best suited. A good solution should solve multiple problems. I agree with that. I think we um any solution should optimize the use of space.
>> Yeah. >> Costs >> and then cost. >> Yes. and that and that we >> but how do we prioritize things? >> Well, we right that we you know coming come at this with an awareness that cost
is um it's an issue and and will be the considerations. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So actually when you think about um when I did this chart I said oh my goodness both options cost similar
amounts. police station here, police station there. But the thing that a police station here does, I just lost it. Um, >> well, it keeps it incorporated. I think you had talked before that it's incorporated within the
>> Yeah, but there was another differential. I can't remember right now. >> It's interesting to read back to this and go like, "Oh, I know how we figured that out." I mean the one about a good solution should solve multiple problems was the fact that um on the next page it
talks about it I don't remember writing the next page but um it does talk about like shoveling if we put a front on this building that dealt with the um fact that somebody almost chopped their finger off on the door because it's too windy and we put
an air lock we would use up some of that sidewalk and we would have to shovel it. We're like, "Yay!" >> Because that's that's like being in the situation and saying, "Ah, we could solve this in multiple levels." >> That's a good point. I mean, you know, just something as simple as maintenance,
you know, should be another category. You know, high maintenance, low maintenance. Yeah. >> I think with a lot of these categories across the top, >> we'll probably just instead of like check marks or or X's, we'll have to do something like high, medium, or low or,
you know, that thing. So maintenance um maintenance cost you know cost of maintenance. So if you are having a police station across the way you know it's being used it has to be shovel and plow at every store but if it was simply
a meeting room that's not a high would not be a high priority. um you'd have to have a separate c you know a custodian >> who's going there to clean um >> utility >> and you would have utility costs so you would have it in in constant use
>> right >> so I mean to me one of the variables that's just really huge is public support >> and I don't think that you're going to get that without working for it >> I think that there are there are issues
associated with people not knowing what happens here. >> Um, not having been here, not understanding the issues. Like it seems to me >> say what happens here a town hall or >> Exactly. I mean if like obviously people who have volunteered here, people who work here are very aware
>> of the space issues. But if you want to build public support, that's a whole different story. Like it's a whole different project initially to get people to say, "Yes, yes, you know, it's a good idea. I want to spend $100,000 on fixing this situation that really needs
help. >> Never get to that. >> The way we phrase, >> but I I began to think about the minute I saw six figures. I began to think about the library project >> and how long that took and how much
community engagement was associated that, how much Maryanne worked to get public support and even given all of that, >> how hard that was. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Um and so and the other thing I'm concerned about too is if we just
present this with costs and then just ask the public very briefly, what do you want to do with the police? It's a setup. for a lot of people at least part of the people feeling like >> I don't like that decision therefore my
relationship with the police department isn't what like and we have a new police chief >> it would be really great if the relationship with this new police chief were get could get off on a good footing and the last thing that we want for him is for him to ask for something that
people don't want and vote down >> right right >> right well I think that's why doing that doing the presentation having open for public comment. You know, we're going to be laying some of that out. Police chief is there. If he wants to answer questions about like why you need better
space or whatever, um then he, you know, he can do that. Um and and that that will help then shape where we go next and whether or not we start spending some other money
on this. I mean, one thing that we really haven't talked about and I picked up from talking to a volunteer fire person is 80% of their calls are medical. >> Yes. >> And if you think about one of the main issues that people have here in terms of
um the COA and transportation, it is the fact that they want to get to Ammerst to medical appointments and it's really hard to get there on public the public means because it's Franklin County and Ammerst is right the different county. So, I mean there I think that there are
themes and values that that really ought to be looked at and tapped into before we commit that mount amount of money to anything, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Oh, thank you. >> But we do have to go back to the initial thing was if that meeting if that room
is not if that building is not used, we have an insurance problem. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know, we didn't even state that. Um um >> yeah. >> So the the least impact is no bathroom, just use it for meetings. No problem
with the insurance. The rest of it is building overtime, public awareness, public support and funding streams that can make it happen. I mean the library um had to understand that it had the
activities not only to raise public awareness, not only to get the support but to raise the funding and do the fundraising. Any project in town that was sort of assumed libraries
do fundraising, libraries raise threequarters of a million dollars all on their own. then they get the state funding and the other town funding and all that. Um it's a long that's a long journey and so um is that what we're going to need to
make this kind of change but we do need to do the first one use the building in the very least amount of way that maintains the insurance. >> Y >> and and I do think the town could be willing to see it as a stage. Some
people are just going to call it well we're done and other people will say it's stage one. Um so I'm a little worried about like just it seems like a sideline but it's not. Um there's a ballot question being considered to lower the state income tax
from 5% to 4%. And all the jibber jabber out there is like yeah people say yeah lower my taxes. The fact that that has a wicked impact on our >> Oh make it all property tax. Is that what you're trying to do? That's what they're willing to say. Um, and so
having the option to not deal or to deal in a in a not helpful way is right in front of us. The states play in that one. >> Well, to make a compelling case, I think is what we're looking at here. At some level, at some point, we need to really focus on the language and and the
process used to to deliver this to the public, >> right? >> Yeah. I'm I'm wondering along those lines the you know for instance we have to do something with that space otherwise we no insurance >> that is a goal that
>> I think that's at the top is that we don't have the option of just abandoning that mothballing the building >> and it is a historical >> yes >> as well but but the other thing I was going to go to and this is going to have to be worked on as a process is You know
the idea for instance our goals the needs the need for this kind of investment uh involves let's say abstract ideas that need to be kind of unpacked optimized space what does that mean for the average Joe and Jane here
>> what does it mean precisely why what is the need >> well we could get into specifics but I think we would do that in a presentation so for example when We say optimize space town clerk's office is inadequate
and it's inadequate because there's no place anybody can can sit down and and you know fill out forms list two people um and so the police department so you know we can talk about
what are the deficiencies that we currently have in the building but I think that doesn't get put into the chart necessarily but there is there are deficiencies and we'd like to make better use of the space. >> There's a compelling need here. >> Yes, there is a need.
>> How do we communicate? >> Yeah. But I think if we could detail what some of those needs are. Again, maybe that's an attachment. >> You know that that comes with attachment to the chart. Um it's kind of our findings, right? We
don't we made some findings. >> Yeah. Well, maybe some footnotes. Yeah. >> Footnotes. Yeah. I need for renovation here. Footnote and we can spell out what some of those are. >> Yeah. >> Y um anyone who want to volunteer to the
first hid in the chart. I'm terrible at them. I'll tell you right now it >> with somebody. I can't do it by myself. >> Yeah. I I've already started to do a bunch of categories. So I will >> do that. >> And yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> I agree with you in terms of the detail. That shouldn't be up front, but maybe we could have more general >> language that addresses these questions. >> Yes. Yeah. I think it gets incorporated one way or another that it just it it uh
>> it's again the footnotes the >> the notes to this however wherever we want to >> categorize it but that you know we have that I think another big concern is whatever we do
um asking people for their input does not guarantee a solution or and we're not not hearing them, right? We our and this is happens on the FINCOM. Our job is to do this. You can do this and this, but you have
to do the big picture. That's our job to keep the town in balance. And so, um, we do, um, hear from people and we have to find a path forward that will work the best for the whole.
Well, there's a Yeah, there was always this case for an informed public, >> right? >> I think the >> Yeah. I mean, we're going to be going asking for for money. We want to have done our homework, right? And and made
sure that we kind of looked at all the options. >> And for me, that means we're not talking this annual town meeting. Um, so we definitely have we need to hold that expectation and say we understand there's a lot of push here because we understand there's a lot of problems we're trying to solve. This is going to
take time. >> Yeah. >> So we may have to discuss at some point what happens in the meantime over there to insurance purposes. >> Yeah. So we're insured for the old town hall. We have storage there. So, it could be as simple as saying, "We're
going to put some some things in storage room over there, and once a week, somebody is going to go over and just check on things over there to make sure there's no mouse infestation or, you know, whatever else we're worried about." Um, but that there's a
>> I I I think for insurance purposes, they want to know that there's somebody who's >> who's looking after the building, too. So, um, >> and we do, too. And we do, too. want to make sure things being looked after. So, >> so two things I'd like to say. One is
>> you know my view of uh you know kind of moving forward now is that >> as I said before I think we need to be able to focus a little bit more on where we go next and I see that as you know combination of getting more public input
but probably through via the select board. It's almost like I I think the select board needs to get more public input and then provide us with some more guidance. >> Yeah. >> So then we can say, "Okay, you know,
this is where we're going to go next." >> Yeah. >> Secondly, um if um if Susie and I are going to work on on a first draft of the the chart, um it might be good to just take a couple minutes and brainstorm what you know, what categories across
the top. you know, you folks, you know, might have in mind. I I mean, I jotted down a bunch. Um, and I can tell you what those are if you want. And then, you know, if people have others, >> just just to be clear, categories or >> so, if we if we do a chart, right, we'll
have our options down the left, spear as a meeting space only, uh, moving the police to the spear or and reorganizing town hall. And then across the top we would have all these, you know, the different um >> variables, categories, whatever you
want. You know, water, septic, we mentioned those two already. Um and again, you know, for each of these uh I mean it it may not it may require more than just a check mark. Yes, we >> you know, there may be a you know, a lot
of cost involved in putting in a new septic system, for example. So, we'll have to figure out how we, you know, how we fill in the boxes below. So, water septic interior renovations, there's so many potential ones of those.
I mean, we we can either break that down further or just come up with like, you know, minor, medium, you know, major renovation, that kind of thing. Maybe initially we can just do the categories. >> Um, cost again, low, medium, high,
something like that. Uh are there significant code issues or you know minor or major code issues? We can do it that way. Will we need an architect uh to be involved? Is there any hazardous material uh remediation
involved like there may be here in this space? Um, >> maybe that could instead of like having too many categories across the top, >> if we were if if we were talking about like renovations, we could incorporate some of that into that category.
>> Okay. >> So, um, >> in a box like remediation, hazardous materials remediation if we think that that's going to be an issue. um >> you know other uh electrical upgrades or
you know just in terms of the renovations so that it's not >> not like too many categories because it's going to be >> yeah well that's why I thought the the footnotes be helpful yes we need major renovations and then footnote two said electrical upgrades there's material uh
reunification you know so forth >> so um and then the other things uh I had you know grabbing from Susie's uh chart. Um does it solve multiple issues or problems? >> Yeah.
>> Maintenance cost, utility cost, and then I think Mary Joe mentioned public support as a potential category, too. Does it have, >> you know, good public support? >> Well, we won't know. >> We won't know that, >> though. I don't think we want to put that. >> No, no, no. Let's not put it there.
Let's we're and we're soliciting public. The other thing I was thinking is if we had a list of things that we absolutely needed to do within a certain time frame like like across the street, you know, what what really needs to be done right away,
>> you know, are there things associated with the police department that have deadlines in terms of when certain regulations are going to come on and be relevant? I mean, it sounds like they had some some urgency. So like what
level of urgency is associated with any of these things and what could potentially be put off? >> I think that also when you mentioned that it made me think we might want to share this with the police department right now so they get to see the
progress the thinking because they may say oh no that shouldn't be on there blah blah blah. Um and certainly the draft of this chart um they're the ones that we're most operating with. So I feel like they should be seeing and
hearing what we're thinking in case they have a different perspective that's significant and we need to incorporate it because we don't want to work in a vacuum. So when you said timeline that that might be part of it for them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Do they need certain things by a certain time otherwise it's going
to be difficult to >> how do you think about then just draft just as it is. >> Yeah. I I know this was totally off topic, but uh he he never really considered the idea of a recreational use.
>> No, we have what we what we did was and and I think we can explain to people, you know, we um >> we surveyed >> Okay. >> We surveyed the municipal folks and board boards and committees and and town
departments because >> they should be first, right? you know, we have this building, it's a town building. Um, what what are the needs? Go, you know, going beyond that, then you might have public input where people, you know, come in and say, well,
you know, why didn't you look at now? Why didn't you look at making a museum there, >> cafe >> or a cafe? Well, the reason we didn't was because we, you know, one of our um
observations is that this space is not optimally used and we have we have needs we have we have building space needs. So we Paul's first note has that and and
then we can say there are other uh we heard about other potential uses but there's a says the existing space and town halls adequate for >> right >> and so that that's that that's kind of a um a mission a mission statement. you
know, our our our mission was to, you know, to look at that and and in the process of, you know, beginning to look at that and and surveying folks, >> we understood that the space is not >> so other like major categories because
the top >> I would make too many I think that maintenance. >> Yeah. I was just saying water, sewer, I put interior renovation. >> Yeah. >> Architect maintenance. >> Maintenance did come up. Yeah,
>> utilities >> maintenance utilities as a category >> could be water and sewer/ utilities could be a category because water >> because those would we be weighted differently like maintenance would be weighted differently depending on the use so it should get
>> yeah I think it >> and same with utilities >> the cost alone I think um Just in an informal conversation with Marianne, she said that if that were to be divided up into different, >> you know, offices, they would need more
>> units to heat. >> They need splits, right? >> Yeah. >> And mini splits are not great when you have really super cold weather. >> Well, you still need a backup heating. >> That's not possible. >> But Susie, you think we got enough to
work on? >> Yeah. And the thing is is it's one of those things this as you sort it out just like this one as you sort it out, oh >> then you got to deal with that. >> Yeah. >> So if you do that could we then for our next meeting because then I I want to
start I want to get onto the select board schedule. >> Right. >> Um I don't I I think we need to go through the through the chart finalize it and then ask to meet with the select board at the following meeting. So that
would probably be before town meeting. I don't know what say. So we just met um >> town meeting this year. >> 9th is May 9th. >> Tell me when the
>> warrant articles. No, no warrant articles. Just tell me when's the select board meeting again after we're meeting on the March 3rd. March 3rd, March 17th, >> March 17th, >> and then the 31st.
>> We want to try for the March 17th meeting. >> Two weeks from now for us is the 5th. >> Right. So, we meet on the 5th. >> We'd had everything ready. Is the 17th
too soon or I think we better. Let's do it. Tuesday 17th SB and is that one where it's a public end? >> Yes. Yep.
>> So we'd invite the public. >> So would they where's the committed? >> March 17th is a t Tuesday. >> And Rita, are you anticipating that you would just present this as a >> Anybody could do it from the Yeah. from I I'd rather have somebody from the
committee and me sitting as as select board. Um maybe we can we can figure that out. >> Yeah, next meeting we can figure that one out. >> Yeah, I think somebody from the committee do
does it better than me. All right. So, we will try to get something out to people before our next meeting so that you can digest it a little bit and then we'll be ready to discuss it the meeting. >> Okay. >> Great. >> Great. >> I just thought I would mention too um
there's I don't and I don't know if you knew this, you you maybe do. I I looked to see if there was money available for feasibility studies from a state. There is. There a couple different sources of money for that. Um, >> was it was it for um for things like for
things like how what you're going to do with public buildings? Oh, like I I I did a search. >> Oh, okay. >> I use chat GBT and what do you do to deal with uh you know the situ our situation? >> Yeah. >> And it basically said yeah to um
>> get money get money from the state to do a feasibility study. >> Yeah. It'd be interesting to hear where you found that. I mean I had looked once and I found something from I think it was mass development which is a quasi public and their feasibility money was
available only if you were going to do a mixed use or like an economic development project >> little like if you were going to say >> call
you know and that it was I mean they're always looking job creation too. But um yeah, that there was some it was some economic development benefit to the community and I did at the time I thought you know if it was straight up um it was straight up municipal offices.
I I know that that the legislature has been looking at, you know, having a um um having a bill to to make money available to communities that need to upgrade their not the only ones.
>> No, we're not. It's a it's a big >> label which office would offer them feasibility money. Um I I checked the Massachusetts um >> state of Massachusetts website that they referred me to and it looked like there were a couple of options. >> Yeah, if you could just let us know what
that was. >> I could Yeah, I could send that could look into it a little bit more because you know and the other thing that they said was really important to fill public support. >> Yeah, was the other thing that they said. So >> um you know and there may be there may
be ways to do that in conjunction with some sort of feasibility study as well. >> It would definitely you would you would do that probably people in. So >> all right great. Um so I think that sort of co we've covered
um item number five. So we're talking preparation select board source of money for feasibility study. If you can bring that back to us, that would be great. And community engagement, we're already talking about having a, you know, a meeting with open to the public. Um, I
don't think we need to talk about Alan Weiss now. I think we're we're not ready for for him quite yet. >> Yeah. The only thing is that, you know, he has said if you want to send me information, I'd be happy to look it over. So like if we do get a well
completion report for example and you know any and the information we had on the septic system over there. >> Okay. >> You know at least that information he'd be happy to look. Yeah. >> So Brendan did you forward that stuff to Alan Weiss that >> the permit and the
>> Y oh you did already. >> But that yeah that's only that piece that we had. >> So then it'll just be the well completion report if we can locate one. And I'm happy to kind of go through the file if that's what is needed, you know? >> Right. Okay. >> Because it's uh it's kind of interesting anyway.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Anything else? >> All right. So, next meeting date is March 5th. Does that work for folks? >> May the 5th. >> Thursday, March 5th. >> Oh, I'm gone. I finally get to be gone.
That's okay. Y'all can help me participate. >> I'll help you. >> Is Stephen back then gone? >> Is Stephen back then? That's a good question. >> Yeah, good question. >> Uh >> I think I did shut down.
>> Let's see. He was here on the 3, right? He was here for the meeting when you met on February. >> On the 5th. >> On the 5th. >> And he was leaving like the next day. I think >> he was gone for a month. >> Yeah. So >> it's close.
>> It's close. Yeah. >> Don't know when he's back. >> Um >> I was thinking we need to put those in the notes after a minute. People go all the time. >> Yeah. >> And I I can't remember somebody else. >> Do you um I mean we could switch it to
the following week, >> you know, since we're going to be discussing this chart that Susie and I are putting together. Nice. See the um away for three days. It's one of them. >> Okay. >> Um what how about Monday the 9th? Would
Monday slip >> at same time. 10:30. >> Yeah. Or we could do a little earlier if we want. >> 9th. >> Okay. 9th. >> Yeah. We sticking with 10:30,
your pleasure. >> Stephen used to Oh, I know. There's some kind of yoga thing. >> He did That's on Tuesdays and Thursdays. >> Okay. So, let's let's try to make it 10. How's that? >> 10 o'clock. Go in once. >> Oh, twice. Is that good? No.
>> 10:30 works way better for me. Oh, >> 10:30. Let's do 10:30. >> If it's not a huge thing. >> No. Back to 10:30. >> 10:30. >> Still be ready for the set of feet that >> Yes. Yeah, that's the goal. >> Okay, great. Well, thank you everybody.
It's a good committee. >> I move to >> I hear a motion. >> You go. >> I hear a second. >> Second. >> All those in favor signify by saying I. Mosure I. I. Johnson. I. Okay. It's unanimous. Frell. I. Thanks again.
Good work. Okay, Mr. Calendarer, do you have on your >> mention chat GPT and I get something about chat? >> Oh my really issue. >> Is that true? What did you say?
>> Happens all the time. >> I