That works pretty well. >> Looks like a living thing. >> Great. Is there anybody in the waiting room or >> Not yet. >> Okay. And Michael Decair was just sending me something about this building
book. when you say this building. >> Um, so I will tell Sus. Um, it was a consultant who an energy consultant who went through this downfall and a bunch of the
other towns >> um as part of our um application for climate leader status. >> So they're preparing a report. It's really timely that um
uh it's part of the state's decarbonization road map. >> This is with the intent that by 2015 eliminate >> Yes. And um what what communities can do
is they can apply to be climate leaders. And um and so Shootsbury is going to apply to be a climate leader. And when you apply to be a climate leader, you get access to >> money >> money
beyond the money that you get access to as a green community. >> State money. Yes. from DOE department >> division of energy resources. Um so so
they had a um so they had gosh I hate emails that like where's the the string goes on and on and then I can't find it. Um, so they
had somebody come and the one thing that Michael had told me on the phone is um, did we call the meeting to order yet? >> No, I'm going to wait for >> Okay. And >> I know this is one of your agenda
segments. >> Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting to order of the um MN spear reuse committee. Today is Thursday, November 13th and um we have four of our six
members here. Um today this is a hybrid meeting and it is being Yep. Okay. Um so I'll first go through the agenda and then um we can launch
into um meeting. Uh so we have meeting minutes from uh October 30th. Um next item on the agenda is to review the building plans for the town hall. Then I am going to u give an update on the um
decarbonization roadmap climate leader um program. um talk about scheduling of a public presentation and I guess I'd like to add to that is um uh update for the select board too
and then schedule our next meeting day. Anything else that anybody has anywhere with >> I think copies of the agenda. >> Um the
mass >> that's part of what that's going to talk about >> and we do have the toilet information. We do don't we have toilet information >> general >> general toilet information >> recap of what Mary Joe
>> found out >> um okay so um the first thing is uh to approve the minutes from October 30th 2025. Do I hear a motion to approve the minutes?
>> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Are there any um edits to the minutes? I did go through them. I didn't see any anything. Okay. >> Yeah, I read I read I wasn't there, but I read it from the >> Okay.
>> Okay. Do you feel comfortable voting for them? Okay. All right. >> Um All right. All those in favor of approving minutes of October 30th, please. >> I motion. >> Get it.
>> Okay. Great. Thank you. All right. Um so the next item is to review the um the building plans. So what we had talked about at the last meeting is um taking a
look at this at this town hall before we jump to um there was something significant here
building I a sense of good fruit and and correct me there's there's probably excess space and underutilized space in this current building
>> and that it makes sense given that we have bathrooms and heating systems. We have all of the infrastructure here set up um already here um and we know that there are some that
there are issues with with how the offices are configured and so forth. So um Stephen offered to get these and I guess Grace maybe helped you dig out
>> Leslie and I get a little vault. >> Yeah. So this is a stud that was done 2002. >> Okay. >> Right. So it doesn't show how the um police department has found a space.
>> Okay. >> You know it's right here. We have their little journaling. But you know these are quarter inch scale. We can easily scale off. We could we could even if we wanted I just brought this. This is commonly called tracing paper. Yeah,
>> you can lay this down over the top. Can do a simple, you know, hand sketch and then start doing measurements from these. Get measurements down if you want. And then, you know, we're here, right? >> Well, we're upstairs. We're We're in
here. >> Yeah, we're here. >> Wait a second. Where are we? >> Try to go. No, we're down here. We're over here's the counselor. We're in here. >> And we're in here. So, this is just offices.
>> That's us. >> Oh, okay. >> And this is town administrator, >> right? >> 2002, >> right? So, the conference room is where >> here, >> right? So, that's like the police, right? So, it was split.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know, they did their little sketch and we could easily put a wall in, >> right? >> You know, that's their evidence so late. >> And there's there's an office here, Gail's office. >> Well, that's the addition. >> Okay. So, and that was done when the
elevator was done. >> Yeah. >> And I think we found there might be uh some other drawings that have that as well. >> Which room? >> The elevator. >> This doesn't have Yeah. >> Oh, are they underneath? I think I
included both on You think there was another set? >> It wouldn't. It was just >> the elevator. >> So that must be one. There you go. >> Oh, okay. >> There you go.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The whole sale was done in 2002. So it's the building >> as it was and then this was with the >> Okay. edition. >> And this is the Okay. Um, >> and this was
originally just one big addition of this one. Okay. >> It used to be in here. >> Okay. And then I don't know where the police were. Okay. And right now we have we have the
assessors, the town accountant and the town treasurer >> in here >> in the in the downstairs room. There were some questions about the the wall according the block wall that's there
and what the structure was. >> Uh that's that's just that's just a partition. >> It is just so there was a there's a little bit about like what could go in there in terms of construction. Um >> I think I think the way you could think
of it is that you could take >> this wall and put any post you want. >> Definitely. So building another wall in that room to be able to use those posts and however it worked. Well, the post >> What do the post do?
>> Well, there's there's a beam that runs this way. >> Okay. >> So, the post are carrying >> Well, actually, they might also end up being load carrying some load from the upstairs. >> But this this wall is not structured.
>> No, this one right here. >> Right. So you could you could redefine this space. >> The only thing you can't do is take out the cups. >> And there's a well. Yeah, there's a there's a room back there off of the off of the
dark storage room >> and it has the uh pump or the um pressure tank which was leaking which was causing some of the water. So they fixed that. We figured that out and fixed it. It was not uncommon years ago that well would be right next to the
building. And if you go outside, there's a slab and there's >> some kind of access so that if you ever had to drill >> pull, you know, if you have a pump that's deep down, you could access it. >> Yeah.
>> And there's an old keg in there from police evidence. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Pretty funky stuff in there, huh? Yeah, >> age. >> You had talked about the the kitchen. >> I was just saying >> potentially.
>> Yeah. I mean, if you I mean, the kitchen, you know, the sink is right here. >> Dishwasher is currently over here. >> Could put the dishwasher over here. Maybe, you know, this
>> fountain is not being used. that could be moved. We put a door here and a wall >> and then this becomes a large closet. >> We were to start um well, one of one of the things that that
came up as a result of the um and this is going to kind of move into the discussion of the next item on the agenda. So, um, uh, Shbury is is applying to be a climate leader community and it's a
designation that I think there are 19 communities in Massachusetts that are climate leaders and it's a state designation and what it does is it gives you access to um, additional state funds
and um, kind of over and above what you can get as a green community. So, we're green communities and we have access to funding through the green communities grant program, too. We used we got
monies to do um the lighting at um to do uh energy efficient lighting at the elementary school and um I think that was finished last year sometime. Um but
as a climate leader um what they have done is um they actually had um a consultant like an energy consultant come through all the town buildings and so that um the
report's going to be ready next week but Michael Vier I just I told him right before the meeting because he had told me November 18th which is Monday Tuesday um and he said if they had something preliminary or, you know, a final draft
and he sent it to me, but literally I was on the phone with him as I pulled up here. Um but they were making recommendations about um this building and and when Brennan and I called him
about the um the the climate leader kind of after the last meeting, >> he said [laughter] when the consultant came into this um building and came in downstairs, he went he like looked at that um you know the
went like, "Oh my god, [laughter] this is like way way like like out of out of control and not what you need." And um you know that his recommendations would be to do something really
different. Um, so, um, yeah, I don't know what's in that report, but you know, we're we're going to have access, [clears throat] not only are we going to have access to a report that gives us some really good information, I believe, um, we're also
they put in the climate leader application is due at the end of December. And then um I looked at last year's um awards and you know they were up to a million dollars. Um and then and
then the green communities grants are are out there too. Um, I think we would, you know, we would need to have a pretty good idea about what it is we want to do down there and look at
what some of these recommendations are. >> Um, but I think the first step for us is kind of saying what do we realistically think how the downstairs could be reconfigured
because I think that's kind of where we start with the police. Let's say the police department is at the top of the list >> for um for needing better space, different space from what they're in right now. what we heard
through the surveys was um it's uh an issue of of privacy. Mhm. >> Um and um >> they talked about what >> booking room booking room like a separate like legally having a separate
space where they can book somebody not a holding cell but like a booking area >> and their so-called evidence room is a narrow closet that runs about I don't know six or eight feet and it's um
>> uh I don't four feet wide. It's just it's not um it's it's it's totally inadequate. So, you know, they very much, you know, had wanted >> looks like it's 4 feet by
a little under 12, but yeah, four feet, which is >> I got, you know, he let me peek in there. You know, I'm sure it's not any place you're not supposed to be able to stay in the air and it's just like stuff Yeah. with stuff their files and
whatever else. I don't even know what else is in there. Stuff that's been um >> been taken from from people. So, they have to hold on to it, I'm sure, for a period of time. Um so, they definitely
need um safe, secure storage. um privacy is an issue. Now, one possibility is um if we could reconigure that downstairs
um is taking what's now the senior lounge, which has a separate entrance. I don't think that [clears throat] entrance is handicapped accessible, though. >> Probably is. >> You think it is? I think the the door is wide enough. Yeah, the door is quite
wide. >> Yeah, it's a pretty wide door. And the approach, it's it's a ramp kind of. Okay. >> It's just a slab. >> Yeah. I mean, if you're if you're wheeling across the quote parking area
because that's not paved right out there, >> right? There is a little bit of a sidewalk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Before we go, well, let me suggest that we have another way of looking at it. So, I was looking at what the big room does currently. Yeah. >> And then it's like, okay, then where
would this thing go? Where did that thing go? And um so in the big room currently, there's a select board meetings, voting, >> yeah, >> bigger meetings, files, metal closets,
access to the lounge, and access to the back room. um that's how it's used when you do the voting. What could that look like? And there's two parts to the voting. There's the casting your ballots, but there's also the counting of them. And when we
have an large election, we often have to 10 counting teams, which is >> two people. And um >> and so that space when we have a large election, we use that space and the senior lounge. Um, so I'm just trying to
think of what that looks like when you move that. I think people would find it fun to cast their ballots over at the old library. >> Um, and the traffic is pretty >> fluid there, but the counting is another problem
>> and um I am I'm trying to imagine that. Could be. >> Could you could you have voting at the new library? you could um so you know it's it's working it out with um the domain of the
library that it needs to be there and then that >> just wondering if it's ever I'm thinking about is it done in any other >> is that I mean other towns use schools they use whatever municipal buildings they can and so that would be >> um can can I just interject so I did a
little bit very little bit of looking at um the question of what will be the requirements when you change use. >> So just reading a few things here. It says requirements for a building use change generally include applying for
planning permission and or a building permit through your local planning or building department. Uh and you have to submit all these different plans. uh a change in use permit is required to
ensure the building meets the new uses specific codes. So I think that it's going to be a given that a bathroom minimally a bathroom and maybe more than
one bathroom would be a requirement and >> across the street >> across the street and um you know I think conceptually the idea of the composting toilet uh is good but I'm not
sure that the code is going to allow that um and just to present what Mary Joe was explaining to me. Um well, first she said, you know, serious comm the serious community uses composting
toilets and they would be good someone good to see if they could talk to us about. But she Mary Joe was saying that these little it's apparently a little thing. It's not a regular toilet, but
you know, and when you use it, apparently there's a way to separate urine from solid matter. And the importance of that is that when you use it for solid matter, you throw in some
early sawdust and it dries it out and it becomes odorless. Um, and the urine you, you know, empty and you can, if you dilute it 10 to one, 10 parts water, one part urine, then you
can just throw it out anywhere. But, you know, who's going to want to be responsible for that? And then the uh section that has the feal matter, apparently when you get enough in there, it's just like in a it's a large dog
poop bag. you tie it up and throw it in the trash. >> Yeah. >> Um [clears throat] so that was that's kind of I think her suggestion because you know her thought which I would tend to agree with is it's not going to get a
lot of use. And you know she said one of the problems with a regular you know composting toilet is if it's mostly urine going in there it doesn't function properly. >> Right. Um and her thought was that
that's probably going to be the primary use. Um so I think you know >> so when you're talking reuse was there any separate stream from reuse of a
municipal building to a municipal use versus using a private building to municipal use or vice versa? >> Um Good question. Yeah. Don't have the answer, but I suspect >> Yeah. A change in use from a from a
library to a meeting space. A change in use. >> Yeah. Here you go. Potential building code compliance issues. Physical upgrades. Change in use may require upgrades to meet current building codes even if no major construction is
planned. Specific requirements. These can include changes to means of egress for example fire exits, fire resistance, sanitary facilities, structural performance, ventilation, energy
efficiency. I mean, you know, if they said you got to bring this up to current energy codes, that means you got to either take the siding off outside or inside or possibly both to get the sidewall insulation up to code. Um, you
know, we have accessibility for people with disabilities. The structural performance I suspect would not be a real concern because as a library it probably has or had beefier
structure. Plus, if you remember when we looked at the building, there have been improvements in the more recent past to the structure. >> So, I don't think structural performance would be an issue. And you've got, you
know, it's a small building. Um, I think as long as it's one space, you have two exits and that would probably meet current code. If you start dividing it up into subspaces, that could become an
issue. >> When you say subspaces, like >> well, like if you divide it up into four office spaces. >> Yeah. >> So, you go into your office, >> one chief chief had an office and the door closes. >> Yeah. So that's your one egress. And
then you have to have the window. I don't know within a commercial use if a window qualifies like in your house your bedroom window has to be a certain size. >> So minimally you'd have to have a window
that would meet the requirements some number of square feet when it's open. Um and it would have to be functional. So the windows would probably have to be changed. Um, >> so there's a way of I I don't think any
of our talk last week saw it as the library space being carved up. So I guess I need to keep the noun in mind. Are you were you mostly looking at when the uh MN spear gets redone or were you looking at downstairs being redone too?
>> Talking about >> only that one. Okay. So >> yeah, I think I guess my point is I think they're going to be there's going to be a good bit of expense >> to reuse it >> at all >> at all. Right. >> And I think on a parallel basis what
would be good is if we could gather some of that information because I think if we we can't dismiss use of that building outright. Um, and I think if we were able to get like information from the
building inspector about this very subject about is this a change in use. If we were going from a library to now using it, it's still a municipal building, but it might be used for as meeting space or it might be used as
offices, you know. Um, is that a is that a change in use that would then trigger all of these code issues? >> Right. >> Um, and that was always kind of in the back of my mind what I was most
concerned about because uh if it did get really >> the fact that it is a historical building, there's no I mean grandfather historical building. Well, usually usually the way the code is, as long as you're not making
changes, >> you don't have to bring your building up to current code. But once you start, it's like if you were doing a substantial renovation in a house, I think 50% renovation, then you got to bring it all up to code. If you're just
doing a little project, you know, putting an addition on, the addition has to be code compliant, but not the rest of the state house. So, yeah, I mean,
>> I think yeah, that's good. >> But I think I think I think it's probably safe to conclude that we have >> we need a bathroom and would we need two bathrooms, >> right? >> Right. regardless of the use of the needed.
>> Um is um so maybe um would you feel comfortable talking to the building inspector? >> No. >> Um that would be great and just you can tell them kind of what we're
>> pondering. Um this I see kind of what part of what we're doing here. I'm envisioning having a um like a chart of um you know the advantages of like doing this right and
the >> um you know the pros and cons I guess of going one one route or another. And I think that's why we were kind of gravitating towards this looking at this building first because there was there
are a lot of unknowns and potential even greater costs and there are certainly costs that would be associated with anything that we do here. And as Susie pointed out, there's not only cost, there's also just
um administrative, you know, things we have to think about with say for the elections. I mean, I think the select board meeting piece, we could have a meeting room and um it
would be nicer even to be in a smaller space than that big room we're in right now. Um so, Susie, what else was it? We do voting, vote counting, select board meetings, and just the file cabinets. >> Yeah. And access to
access to the back room which has the pump and electricity and >> um you could have a hallway, right? Yeah, I could. Um, so it's I'm feeling torn between thinking it out and and letting
it go until we get to a different understanding of what we need. But >> um so when Maryanne said in the library they could use some offseason storage, I could see along that um wall that's in the middle, making that an alley that's
both storage, some file cabinets, the cupboards, the access to the back room, and as you step into that room, making an entry so that you can go into the police room or into the community um thing. But >> and that everything was going along quite jolly until I thought, "Oh, so
where do we count the votes?" because that's a big enterprise and we use when do we spread out into that space and when do we not and there's you know still more thinking about how to solve them but I don't want to solve problems that I don't know what the what the path is at all so right but those are those
are things that impact um seeing how the big room is used um >> and um can you tell us what the square current square footage is of the police um room >> what happened to that um >> Oh, he sent me a little drawing.
>> Yeah, little drawing. >> I sent sent it to you guys, right? Sort of. >> Did I send it to you? Maybe I just Did I send it to you, Brennan? >> Yeah, I think I sent an email to the >> to the group. >> I remember seeing it. Oh jeez.
>> Had done a little floor plan this of what their current space is in there. Um so that we could get a sense of Oh, here it is. >> Question. >> I was wondering.
>> Can the building have a life as it is without any changes at all? >> Yes. >> Does it have to be abandoned? >> No. No. Well, no. I think it could have a life as it is, but that's what I would want to know from
>> can you walk in and have a meeting in that room and not call it a reuse, a change? >> This is the question people have been meeting you. >> Right. Right. So that's what I want to know from the building inspector. So, um,
the office area is 16 by 184 and then there's the 4x12 of the closet, the secure storage by 18.
>> Yeah, that's what he's >> total. And and that 16 by 184 is divided into the chief room and the rest of it. Okay. So >> the on the outside wall it's 16 ft.
>> Okay. >> And then >> that's 48. So this step now it's roughly >> there you go. There's there's a >> Okay, great. So it's about,00 340
square ft something in that neighborhood. 350 square ft. What is the lounge discussion? >> Is that the senior? They believe that is that what the lounge? >> Yeah, the senior lounge.
>> So this is um say 189 by 29. I was just when I could just see if it was if if it was just the senior lounge
>> and we weren't having to move any walls and we could retain the big room and just, you know, reconfigure Um, you know, wouldn't that would that be one way of doing it? So, that's 522
square ft. The 189 even a little bit more than that. I didn't use the fractions, but >> and they're at 336. One thing that came >> You add the 4x12 closet. >> I did. Yeah, one thing that came to me
is why or how the senior lounge was designated as the senior lounge. And there's always this beef thing that happened, but and I could see that, you know, Mariel Gross was the uh lunch lady when the building was not the um town
hall. And so I could see it sort of it might have evolved. And I do know that um at this I would say at this time the COA sees it as a permanent setup so they can walk in and do >> Yeah. >> If they are bumped.
>> Yep. >> Which is a discussion. Um >> would we be looking for a a fixed created new one? Okay. So so it's like that dominoes. What is the domino? And that would be some kind of entity for
the senior lounge in the >> senior community. >> Yeah. So in the big space. So I would say could we bump it into the big space and even combine it with the kitchen. You know that it that it that it because they use the kitchen, right? So if you
had the kitchen was kind of part of that. Um, and I don't think the um, you know, I don't think the I don't know how how you deal with windows. I, [clears throat] you know, in the select
board meeting space, like windows are not critical. I'd say more the senior lounge is used during the day. It's more important to have, you know, windows there. >> Honestly, I don't know how the police would feel about windows because those windows all they can pull those shades.
There's there's shades on all >> they're not a fan of it >> and but the other piece is the nurse >> and she has a set space. So >> um so that's the same thing as elections. If you start moving this then you have to move that and then what does
that look like? Right. >> So I I think as long as we keep the pieces on the table in the order that they belong then yeah you can you can move things around. Um I mean the other thing is that the um yeah I did you did
the police say something about the windows? >> I I've had a discussion with um some of them and >> um that was one of their main concerns is there's too many windows. >> Too many windows. Yeah. >> Well, I think you know you could do something as simple as let's say you
wanted these two windows. Um, you cut, you know, plywood and you screw it in place. You paint it first. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> and the window's gone, >> right?
>> That could be an easy >> Yeah. >> thing to deal with. I mean, I would think that they'd want some >> light natural >> light, right? >> But you could easily reduce, you know, and if you just wanted to reduce one, then you just >> actually if you move it If you move the
police into the current community lounge, you probably have to have another door because the door that other exit goes into the main room and down the hall. I mean, would you want two exits in the room case? You can take out a window and put a door in.
>> Yeah. >> So, let's say [clears throat] >> you have this is an exit and this is an exit. >> Right. Okay. I I >> so but if you and if you if this if you had a hallway here is what I was
thinking then it becomes a hallway where you could enter the police department that way through that hallway or you could enter it from outside >> right >> but the hallway you know would have to continue so that you have your um access
to the >> go the wrong way that hole. >> This would be the hallway, >> right? This would be the remaining space and this could take out some of the people. So there would be more space or even wonder if the come. So the police, just for discussion, the
police is now gone from this. So now this wall could actually be removed and with this space, but you don't want to just because you want to also have a larger clerk's
>> we need we need better space for town, right? >> So maybe some of that becomes town clerk. >> Yeah. Um, >> so in the current police room, you could put the town clerk, maybe the land use clerk, you could have some record storage
>> and then, um, in the current TC room, you could that could be where the land use clerk ends up or the treasurer or they could share it. >> We had a better meeting space up here. I mean, that's the other thing that some of this was out of here
>> into other space. And what about in my mind a least uh an easy uh way to use the sphere library without
needing a bathroom is it becomes storage to see become storage. You know, I it's like we have the old town hall. It's storage now and [clears throat] like people don't have access and people love that building. >> I I think it would be kind of sad if we
if it just became, >> you know, another >> Well, so my thinking was if that became storage, then you could take a lot of not the vault obviously, but the vault's not in in the space. You could take a
lot of that stuff which a lot of it can be consolidated to spread out >> and then there were bathrooms there. So there is a >> Are you pointing to the old town hall >> old town hall? >> Yeah, >> old town.
>> So it would be a lot easier to put bathrooms back in there and because you don't have to have a kitchen or if you have one it could be minuscule. I think there's enough space to have two handicap use bathrooms
in there. And it used to have water coming from the well on town common. So you reestablish that. I don't know if it was a full septic or tight tank, but you could reestablish that.
>> Be a tight tank. I think that's very small. >> Yeah, it's a very small area. So I'm guessing tight tank. Um, and you'd have to do you'd have to figure out a way to get handicap access. >> But
I think that space given the size would be a lot more useful as a community space. >> You know, the library has the problem of the chimney in the middle of it. >> It's, you know, so it's it's kind of an
awkward space. It has heating. >> It has heating. Yeah. >> And the other problem with the old town hall is the parking and >> and when we considered it as a li possible library site that would it
would necessitate crossing the road. >> Yeah. >> And um meetings at night that's not such a great idea, but that's just one of the pieces that came up over there. >> Right. >> Not like crossing Kohi though. [laughter]
Yeah, this is this is not a fun place to cross. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, there there obviously are issues. I mean, the parking certainly is, but >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The big the the whole work that's on the back of old town hall where the
bathrooms and the kitchen were, it gusting. It to be ripped off. It's not just like fixing what's there. >> I'm pretty sure. And I think it also sags. >> I think the whole thing isn't what you might have looked at it. >> No, I I would I would disagree. I don't
think that that wart is a problem. Um what I think based on looking at the building a couple of times and rumaging around in the crawl space quite a bit, >> is that the original back wall, >> which is gone now because when they did
the vault and then when they did I don't know if they were done at the same time. I suspect not. >> But the vault, which has a poured concrete foundation and is brick on the exterior, >> there's not a single crack. I mean, there's no signs of any settlement in that.
>> The the the settlement, you go into the building and you go about twothirds of the way back and then there's a sharp br, >> right? Um, and my suspicion is that the back wall, the original back foundation
wall, there was something unstable and that that settled and the back of the building settled. Um, but in the um area where I mean it's nasty in there. The ceiling, you know, there was a roof leak at some point in the past.
The ceiling's all fallen. I mean, you you would need to gut that on the interior. naturally. >> Yeah, because you go, you know, that's that's the quote basement area under that. >> And again, um I didn't get any sense
that that section, that bathroom, kitchen section that actually settled. You know, the side entry that used to I guess have stairs and there's some rot there. There's some
other areas of rod outside. But >> yeah, >> um if we um we start moving stuff around in here. Um so we assume you have to apply for
permits. Not if you're [laughter] certain. >> Well, wipe it off. Start there. Permits. Well, I just, you know, I just want to know sort of whether or not that if that triggers anything else that we have to
we have to deal with. >> One one thing I'll just throw out um >> you know another you given this is just a partition war. >> Yeah. >> I mean if you put the police over here >> on the big side. Yeah. >> Yeah. Then you know I hate you know it
would be in my opinion much nicer let's say there's a wall here then this is now a big space >> and you don't have to have this separate hallway you know in my mind the hallway is a loss of space. >> Yeah. >> You know so and if you put down here
>> you have a door here to get in there. >> Yeah. There'd be a door there'd be a door somewhere right here. And then and then if we make this that's that you know >> that's your booking room. Okay. >> Booking room or Yeah.
>> And possibly >> still the window problem but it's >> different over here. >> Yep. Um, >> but then the select board, could we could we sort of partition the select
board and um and senior lounge so that they felt like they >> well, you know, they they make these um it's like an accordion room. >> Yeah. >> And because it sounds like the real
issue comes to voting and tabulation, right? Right. >> Flex, we need I believe we need one flexible open space or usable space. >> Um it could you could divide it and then some counters can be over there and some counters can be over here. That that's
okay too, but you have you can't go into the police department for that. So whatever space you leave has to have the flexibility. >> Yeah. So let's So again, so let's say we've got, you know, the police department wall. >> What's exactly?
>> Yeah, we can start cutting it over there. We wanted to give them like >> 500 square feet. >> Well, this is uh that's 21 from the wall to here.
And then it's going to be the same that we got before 29 >> 294. >> Yeah. >> That's even more than >> Yeah, that's a little more, >> you know. And I'm not saying we
couldn't, you know, if we decided on the quotes, right? Because the wall could be here >> and then clear and you pull out the >> Yeah, they have they have their entrance. They have this >> other
electronic. >> So then this becomes this space becomes 29 and a half ft. 29. >> A big space. >> That's a big space. >> Yeah. >> And and you know, if
you could, you know, you could put figure out a way to put in one of those room collapsible room dividers. >> Yeah. You if you divided that space up and you had a door over there where that set of the last set of windows is wouldn't it need another
>> you mean it's >> but that that part the back becomes separate room it would need some kind of exit >> I don't know what you know with the a collapsible wall >> if it could kind of open from two
direction I'm not sure >> that would have to taking out a set of window for a door wouldn't be that there's too many window. So that's a good um >> solution window,
>> but there's lots >> I mean the senior senior they continue to get the senior lounge. you know, there has been an issue and and I think it just needs to be discussed about wanting that space exclusively
>> um for the seniors. And >> I think um you know the few times that we would need that space, we just have to talk about it. They set up three roundts. Those are exceptively roundts I will say because I'm a short
person. are moving low ground. Oh, they're >> pain in the neck. >> So, there's three set up now and one just stored over there because they are too big for that room, >> right? >> Um, but when we have senior lunchon once a month, we are now sitting at three
tables. Um, they are so big they don't fit into the room enough to easily sit all the way around all three of them. So, we might have been able to get away with something else. But, um, and I actually wondered if there was a historic path that got that room
designated. Did they do money? Did they do anything? I I Whatever it is, we It would be to know. >> Do you mean did they pay for the improvements >> or did the somehow did the framework of why that is? >> Um, yeah, I know that there was
improvements. I don't know who paid for them. Um, but I don't know if there was some kind of way that they historically saw that and then we'd have to just address that. It's not impossible. But I think it's important not to tread on people without having some information.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it would be good to have the history. You want to find the history? [laughter] >> I I can probably across Leslie probably knows that >> a bastard. Yeah, because I know it's been a
sensitive [clears throat] subject about not not like us, the select board, not giving people permission to use that room, >> right? >> And and so um
yeah, I'm not sure how how that um how that evolved. Yeah. Yeah. But it's clearly been a an understanding that not understood. >> That's the best kind, right? [laughter]
>> Thank you. Understanding that's not understood. Yeah. It's understood by some people but not others. >> I think Yeah. I mean I think you know I think it's given the limited use and the fact that really I think we really need
>> to make things as flexible and people there has to be give and take you know so that >> you know >> if they want that to be their lounge >> then [clears throat] >> but but even just like when this public health nurse took up a corner and then
stuff got moved here and then they move over there wasn't enough talk ahead of time and >> as far as I know that public health nurse is now part of the town's >> departments part of their action you know so we just need to keep understanding when things get added how
to work it out >> and I I'm not you know there may not be a problem but it helps to know ahead of time or talk ahead of time >> make that case >> yeah yeah and and also you know even as we are talking here about moving people
around and making all these changes. I think um yeah, that's why I think it would be good. I mean, obviously this meeting is public and anybody can listen to it. But yeah, at some point just coming back to the select board and saying like here's an update, here's where we are. These are the kinds of
discussions we've been having. Um, and I think the more information we can get about, you know, the >> library >> library changing use, um, the better off we're going to be. But
if we and I have just two o'clock, I have to leave at 2:30. Um, so I want to make sure we get as much um, done possible here. Um, do you do you think it would make
sense to um take the next step in having somebody like do a, you know, work up a a plan here.
Um, and just show the walls and show the reconfiguration. Is that something you can do or um could we see if we could find a volunteer who could draw it on a pad?
>> That would be the better better and I'm like >> I know that um taking [laughter] >> No, no, Michael has cat. I mean he he my husband does >> so he does drawings for Habitat. Yeah. >> Um >> Pat Wilson does drawings.
>> Pat does too. That's that's what I was thinking. Yeah, >> she might be willing to do it. >> Okay. >> I mean, Russ has been very generous in helping do some of the projects. >> Yeah. >> Accomplished. >> Great. Yeah. I don't
>> I mean, you know, the fact that it's all here and it's just a matter of >> moving walls around. Well, initially initially just getting this on there and then you know [clears throat]
>> you overlay with this and you know you do some sketches and you could come up with different ideas and um they could you know we could have several different ideas >> I think >> which could then be you know all put in
the CAD program. So, so one thing and that would come out of this report um that hopefully um you know we get some more if if there are recommendations around the heating system. I mean that to me
would be the other thing like right I don't even know what that heating system is down there now. It's an air exchange thing. I know that. But >> well, that's not a eating that's just air exchange and it helped change the mold level that was in that foldable wall by a lot. The mold I mean
the mold was a significant >> but that's a um a I think that's a HRV a heat recovery ventilator. So it's constantly running and it's taking air from the building throwing it outside through a
heat exchanger bringing air from outside in. So you're constantly changing the air. There's also a humidifier >> dehumidifier. >> Dehumidifier. Thank you. That's back in the utility room that also runs and I
think that interfaces. So I suspect >> that the two of them in tandem >> are helping significant change the >> Yeah. So of course you know that's that's something you know that sort of is
here. So, you know, the best thing there is to have some something in front of it, >> you know, and as I was >> unless there's a more updated unless, you know, we >> Well, the the question I guess I'm wondering that the gentleman might be
raising is maybe it's larger than it has to I mean, we have we have one in our house. You know, any new house because it's so tight has to have one, right? >> And the unit itself is about like this and about that deep.
>> So, do you know if that air circulator is also recirculating the air up here? Does it take >> have to have to uh trace the >> there's some cold air returns or with air returns? Yeah. So, that may be part of it that it might be a whole building thing and this is a pretty large building.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I don't know if we have time. I did a little work on this uh termination of eligibility for the for the dealing with the >> Oh, okay. Okay, great.
>> Um, so I filled this out. Um, and I don't Would it be easy for you to make a couple copies of this if people could? I mean, I filled this out. Um, and I went through um, you know, first off,
Shootsberry um, what's it called? >> Well, the the library is considered a historical feature of Shootberry. it's listed um you know and the goals acquire preserve rehabilitate restore public
publicly own historic properties we're good there um and then criteria for historic resource projects protect reserve enhance we meet that
proposed work meets the US Department of Interior standards for rehabilitation Um, it ensures the historic resource can be maintained for continued public benefit. There's potential loss or destruct or
destruction. Well, if that continues. >> Um, so it fits a lot of these categories. >> Then there's general criteria. We fit a lot there. Now, I went through briefly the Secretary of Interior's standards
for rehabilitation and um one of the things so they have what they recommend and what they don't recommend. So, this is replace and this is an example. Replacing in kind an entire entry porch,
a porch that is too deteriorated to repair. If the form and detailing are still evident, using the physical evidence as a model to reproduce the feature. >> If using the same kind of material and I think this it's not tech technically and
in my mind that's like maintenance and how long it's going to last. um if it's not technically or economically feasible then a compatible substitute material may be considered and I think that's what we'll be talking about the
substructure all pressuret treated wood you're never going to see that so that's and that's also I think falls in there the flooring really is about the only thing right that we're really changing out um you know so when I wrote this
>> [clears throat] >> Well, briefly describe your project's expected results. Most importantly, the installation of proper footings will stabilize the front entry porch and prevent any additional settlement of the porch or the roof above. In addition, historic details of the entry porch will
be repaired. For example, the dental molding on the gable of the porch and the rails on each side of the porch while being raised to meet current code requirements for safety will be detailed in a manner consistent with the existing details. Also, the reconstruction of the
floor and stair structure will utilize materials that will have a long life and require minimal maintenance. So, that's where we're making the change. >> Right. And um >> so Steve, I wonder if we could um >> and this is due, excuse me, I think December.
>> Yeah. So >> that's just to be determined eligible and then >> and the application is due in February. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So there'd be time to get accurate estimates. >> Can I just check if ADA is not an issue
for a second exit from a building? Um just push them off. Yeah. Well, I mean, just thinking of um some larger public or commercial spaces that
have ramps. Um you don't see a second ramp. I don't see a second ramp. >> Okay. >> You know, I'm not going to say it's not a requirement, but uh >> I don't think so. It's an I guess it's another thing if you're checking with
the building inspector and just saying >> right >> you're replacing the porch because that's another thing that's going to need a permit >> right >> yeah well that would that would you know that would dramatically alter they used to just push them off the edge
>> right >> in the old days >> um so I put um you know they asked for a >> this is going to yeah this is what will go to the CPA Yes, >> anticipated total cost. Yeah, >> I put 35 to 70,000
>> and then I said uh you know contractor estimates will be secured to provide a tighter window of anticipated cost. That's assuming that they >> tell us we can go forward. >> Yeah. >> Um and I put down, you know, I'll be the contact person.
>> Okay. Um, but I'm listing um, you know, the the MN Spear Library Reuse Committee is the applicant organization. >> So, what I would say is let's put that on an agenda for the next meeting. Yes. >> So, the determination of eligibility.
Yeah. And then if you want to >> Yeah. >> December 4th and that's the due date. >> N You need
you want copies of this everybody. >> You know what? You can just Why don't you send it to Brennan and then um you can you can email it to all of us. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Do that. >> If you don't, I can scan it for myself. >> Or you can copy it now. You want to copy
it now? [laughter] That's easier. Okay. Everybody will have it. Get my steps in. Get your steps in. Um I got it right here. >> Okay, >> he's on his way. Um, so then at that
meeting we could go through the um determination of eligibility application and kind of get that underway since that has to be done regardless for that building and that application could come from us.
>> Great. Thank you for >> getting that under feedback from CPO. CPA will give you feedback. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Now you're the CPA and I am too. So we're going to have to
>> recuse recuse ourselves. We're the um >> Yeah, we're the applicants. >> We'll let him do [laughter] that. >> [clears throat] >> Um, do you think that um did you say it was it was Pat Wilson Wilson who might do a
do for us? >> She might. >> Okay. Thank you. And there's um there might be some other people who are like um >> I mean I can I could call Ross. Okay.
>> The woman that um came in on Yeah. Catherine. Yeah. Yeah, based on the CBA. Yeah, >> she might have or she also might know somebody >> um or um who's the
person on the buildings committee who might have somebody in who's Anna? >> Oh, yeah. >> Somebody in Anna Anna's >> Oh, Anna's office. >> Office. Yeah. >> You have to talk to her. >> Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you start with You
want to start with Pat and then if that doesn't pan out then why don't you let us know and then we can >> also put out a um a town. >> Yeah. >> And look people
>> um I'm not going to be able to make the fourth. >> Okay. Um, we want to unless it got that whole >> unless it was say later in the day.
>> Okay, let's just look at the fourth. >> Um, what's later in the day for you? Let's see. I think three or four would be safe. >> Okay. Brandon leaves at four. >> Yeah. >> But so do you think three would be okay?
>> I think three would this my wife has a consult. >> Okay. or some major dental appointment. And it's at 11. I would like to think it's not more than an hour. >> Yeah. >> For the consult, >> but it's a ways away.
>> It's well, it's in Havly. So, >> okay. So, we could we shoot the three. >> Yeah. >> 3:00 on the 4th. >> I mean, the other option is say 2:30. Let's see. 12. 3:00's better. >> Yeah. Let's do three. and then Brennan
if he has to finish. >> Yeah, >> I'm pretty sure I'll free it, but I do I didn't bring my calendar. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um and if you could let everybody know, Brennan, that would be great. >> Um and if you if you can find out if Pat
can't do it, let um >> let me know and then um we'll figure out from there. because I could I could ask Kathleen to hang out with Kathleen. So, um or Anna um
there are other architects in town too. Oh, you know who is is um Lindsay Schnear >> down on crack corner road. She's a new person. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but that town announce now I just know of her. She's
>> I know just the local town announced we just get nothing you know we don't say oh somebody else is going to do it >> right [laughter] >> nobody else will I I think direct outreach if we can start that way >> so what we want is we have these
existing plans and we would just like plan of each for >> especially if we give them a sense of what the loose is. Yeah, we know that there has to be access. There has to be um >> Well, I don't I was thinking that she
would just provide the initial plan. We would talk about how we develop it up and then that would then become a new CAD drawing. That was
>> I see. So, we would we would start with >> we would start with this. And >> and are we are we starting are we starting with this part of the kitchen
gone? Is that it? And are we agreed to start with that? >> I think so. Right. The other possibility is we could [clears throat] see if if she inputed this, she's got it on a laptop. If she could come to the
meeting. >> Oh, right. >> And then we would say, "Okay, >> we want the wall here." Yeah. >> This here. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Why don't you Why don't you see? I I'll
yeah I'll I'll talk to Russ and >> we'll I'll find out and I'll try to do that you know >> a couple days. >> All right. >> Sometimes he and Patty are off somewhere. >> But >> okay >> if I if I can't you know if in two days
say I can't get >> well right. Yeah. >> Yeah. I know. I'm my husband's cat program is on is on his desktop and it's like >> it's ancient, you know, >> he can't even move it to anything else. It's so old.
>> Um, >> so yeah, having somebody who has something that's more current that you sit here and >> Yeah. I I mean I don't know what she had, but I know that when we built our house >> Yeah. >> she had it.
>> She did it. >> Yeah. Um, okay. Um, I am, uh, >> you say, when did you say you needed the >> 2:30? Okay. Yeah. >> Um, I'm going to find out if I can
forward um, this document to all of you that I just got from Michael Dier because I think I'm just looking at it. I thought he said it was like two pages, but it's it's really long. >> He said 22, right? >> I think it was 22. sort of looked at second tooth.
>> This heard um and um so I see right away my name is spelled wrong. Okay. [laughter] Um looks like there's a lot of lot of
information in here. Um al decarbonization plan. So, there's a down. Let me just get right to that. Down hall. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. So, there's two pages.
Um, okay. Envelope. envelope installation improvements and HVAC electrification and controls retrofit. You don't know what that means. >> You'll have to unplug it in order to get the breaker [laughter]
>> switch. >> Oh, what a break. You have been using that helpful to know where the breaker is. >> Good. >> And I remember >> we had another item on the agenda. >> Yes. >> Your public. Yes. Yeah. So, we should do
that. All right. Let me find out if I can send this to all of you and um but it looks like the town hall piece of it is just a small piece and I don't think it's going to be that helpful at this stage. Um okay. So, for
the next meeting, we will already have the eligibility determination hopefully work on this um public presentation. I'm not sure if we're there yet.
>> No, we don't want to [clears throat] >> get everybody riled up. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're doing work and we can't just pretend that it's not. >> Yeah. >> Process. >> Well, and I think um I think you mentioned this last time. I think it's
important for people to realize that we're not going to make the decision, right? We're going to present recommendations that it will be up to the town's people to decide. Yeah. >> You know, >> and in that in that process, I think you
give pros and cons. >> Absolutely. Um, how do you feel about my just giving a brief update to the select board about kind of where we're going in the process >> maybe at the next select board meeting
just saying we're our focus has been on the town hall um most immediately we're doing some investigation about um if anything was done with the
the year library, but we feel like the, you know, the current town hall could >> absorb some of the right changes. >> And and it might be worth saying that our suspicion is that to make any change over there is going to minimally require
a full bathroom. And we don't know what else the code will require, but it could be significant and costly. >> Yeah. If you can find out anything next week or so from the building inspector and share that, that would be great.
>> Well, in the our charge is here, but we've seen how it opened up into this, right? >> And it opened up because after our survey and we began to consider, we then got >> sort of more in the nitty-gritty of what the MN spear would require, which we're
still finding out about. And then >> in opening that up, we were able to see from the survey some of the needs and saw they could be met in the town hall if we work on that picture. So we have to we can work on it. They could just say, "Oh, that's not too Oh, [laughter]
okay. Fine." >> Yeah. Right. Rita, how much what how much square feet do they currently have? >> I think they have um what did I say? About 3002. That's 340. >> And how much did >> we say this would be?
>> Yeah. 340. >> And that would be 5 525 at least. >> And how much what's the square footage? >> Oh, even at 21 by 29 it's even more than that I think. >> And what's the square footage of spear?
>> 902. >> 609. 609 is the 21 by 29. >> Okay. And then we didn't figure out the other one, but that can come out. >> Well, and we did not add >> closet, >> right? >> And your figure of what they have
includes the closet, which is what 48. >> Yeah. >> So, this will be a sizable increase. >> That's a bigger. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think you heard
>> I added it to the 3 and you know 36 that they currently have. >> Well, if we did if we if we if this was the wall
>> that's seven by 7 by 12. >> We want that's we want this door right down here. thought was get out, we take away the water source, you know, move the piping out of the way, put a door
there, refrigerator can kind of stay where it is, >> and you move the dishwasher >> and got a nice size. >> Yeah, the kitchen, right? But seven by 12, that's 84 additional 84 square feet, right?
>> So now you're getting close up to 700 square ft. So, we haven't doubled the evidence closet size, but it's >> that's and it's twice the size of what they have now, >> right? >> And that could be the booking room. They can decide what that goes. Yep.
>> Okay. >> No windows in it. That's good. >> Great. >> Um, good. I feel like we're making headway. >> Yeah. So at the next meeting we are going to approve the CPA application determination of eligibility.
>> Well you you all have it now so you can look through it and if you think >> I could improve my language or add something let me know. >> So we won't be able to vote on it so we need to make sure we have um Paul and
Mary Joe here. We have four votes with ourselves. Um we end up with enough information from the building inspector to know what level of change is going to be required
and and also relative to the historical nature of that building >> and then we're going to um >> have some possible plans for the town hall. >> Yeah. And I think that, you know, I I understand the looking at the old town
hall, but I feel like we're in a long run here. You know, we can do >> we're hopping, right? >> Slowly we can get there, but I don't think it's going to be >> Well, I can I I have no problem with that, but I think it's good to kind of
think of the big picture, if you will. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't feel like you could look at that in isolation without looking. It's just become so apparent that um >> that that people are there's there's some people that have too much space and
some people that have way too little space and it was been a real problem for the town. >> Okay, great. Thank you all. Gratefully adjourn. Yes. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? >> Move to adjourn. >> Okay. Do I hear a second? >> Second.
>> I thank you very much. Thank you um Brennan for taking the minutes getting them out and it's such a timely matter. >> This was this >> as a historical thing. So this is from 1948
for the elementary. Oh, here this has somebody put in