of this. Um, is there um there a way to like move the camera up or >> Yeah, >> go to camera control.
>> Oh, here. Oh, >> we'll switch it. >> Okay, it's on auto framing. >> Okay. Oh, good. Perfect. All right. Um, okay. I am going to go ahead and call
the meeting of the um MNPER library committee to order. Today is uh Thursday, December 4th, 2025. >> Probably not. >> 18th. >> Oh, she's looking at the minutes.
Thank you. I was wishing it was December 4th. December 8th. Gonna speed through this morning time. Thank you. Thursday, December 18th. And um
we have uh our agenda in front of us. So, let me just quickly run through what's on the um agenda and then if there's anything unanticipated that um we need to add, uh let me know. So, we
have minutes from uh December 4, 2025. Um we're going to talk about the CAD drawings and potential for room reconfigurations um within the town halls. Um Susie, I'm hoping you can give an update about from
the Council on Aging. Um and Stephen Gel is going to talk to us about um code requirements. Um, I'm going to report back uh on both my conversation with Maryanne Antineellis. And what I didn't add and I
I'd like to just add as an update on my discussion with um uh our acting police chief David Pelleter about um what he found out uh with regards to Yes. Yep. So there's a one you have a one page
what he found out with regards to um certification uh from lease around around the space around the office space uh any unanticipated business what >> and are you going to be able to give
something on the mass save >> oh yes yes yes I'm sorry and I can give you an update on the mass save too so why don't I do that um I'll do that so mass save and Devon within my my report back um
and then just schedule the next um meeting date. So um I uh just to start before we um launch into the agenda, I I just wanted to mention that um uh I had
been asked about um public comments, public discussion. you know, we are not routinely doing public comments at this meeting. This is really a a working group as and and we have lots lots to do. Um I think you know if we have
visitors we'll try to be judicious about any comments during the course so that we don't get off you know off course. um and uh you know unanticipated business. I don't know maybe we can each time I
want to raise um when we might feel ready doing some sort of more public hearing or whatever you want to call it um about uh where we've gotten to. So that being said um the first item is
a um are the minutes from December 4th. Do I hear a motion to approve the minutes? >> Moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Are there any um additions, deletions? >> One one minor thing on the very last
page under administrative actions says moer to talk with D. >> You did. >> Yeah. I think I had to at least look up some D information on alternative title five system. So I think that's what that
was supposed to be. Okay. Okay. Um any other changes? >> No. >> Okay. Um and um with that change in mind, um
what you made a motion, right? >> Yes. I second. >> Second it. Okay. All those in favor of approving the December 4th, 2025 um minutes >> amend. >> Yep. >> Lion's eye. >> Your eye.
>> So, you know, this is my first three town meetings today, so I feel like uh and I have other stuff in between. Um feeling a little scattered. So, um why don't we start out? Looks like Stephen
has presented us with um a >> Yes. If you look at the second level we're on, >> you'll see we're uh >> created a small hallway.
>> Yep. >> Uh and an entrance into the two spaces, entrances into the two spaces. our current room and then you know what's the u senior lounge and then uh reducing
the size of the kitchen and creating closet. Oh, great. >> Um, and then just quickly, if you look at the first page, I took out the um office and the current police
office. And you know, just looking at that, I said, "Oh, well, you could make that larger space the conference room, and the conference room could become the clerk's." I don't know if how much space
the clerk earns, but it would give you >> so the >> the option of that. >> Oh, I see. Oh, so you're moving things around. Okay. >> Well, this is this is >> upstairs. >> Upstairs. >> So, the only thing that was done here is
I show you. >> Oh, I'm getting I have it turned around. Okay. I got to do it this way. just saying we could think about switching the police and the uh conference room because it would then be the
>> you look at this Rita. >> So I just had these removed. >> Okay. >> And then these openings which exist created. >> Oh okay. So that all right that's >> then downstairs you can see if you look at this also
what was >> right so the utility room would always be accessed through this figure room because this is >> yeah that was the one question I had was looking at initially as well is you know
I mean to get I mean if you're bringing something in from the outside you go to go through four doors we can get get into the utility rooms, >> right? >> And you got to go around the 90° turn um you know into that the big space over there >> or you can come in through this door
>> or you could >> which door >> the outside door. >> Oh, the outside door. Yeah, >> there's a wider door. Right. >> Right. Right. You just go across the room. Yeah. On the edges. I mean,
another option would be just to move this door to to this wall, I suppose. So, then you at least would have >> Well, the reason the reason I didn't do that, we talked about this a little bit, is like assuming this became the police, this became the police office, this
might seem a little bit more private, you know, but the door could certainly be there. Um, the one thing that's nice in my opinion about the door here is that this space uh starts to become a place where you could put some storage.
>> So you have a wall right where you looking for the storage >> on >> well right here and you know as much as you want along here. So that this space has grown a little well quite a bit. Yes. uh into kind of this kind of space,
but you have all this that could be storage. But as soon as you put the entry here, then you need kind of allow for movement here and then I mean you could I guess go with storage along here, but >> right, >> you know, all of these openings um ADA
compliant would be it would be okay. So what's so these two rooms would be exactly the same. >> Yeah. On the on the first the upper level. The only thing that's changing is the partitions or and the police are
being removed. So you now have a single larger space, >> right? And you could make decisions about I mean that space could certainly be divided up but would that be if this became police
and that's senior center and voting area right >> um this upstairs would be a nice size conference room >> right >> I mean it's not that much smaller >> uh
than you know the downstairs >> and then the conference room could be repurposed maybe as clerks or you know, >> right? Okay. And in that um former police space
you would think about the list of people who are currently in the conference room just land clerk which >> and the and consom stuff um and or health and
it but um >> the clerk moving up the stairs could open up that space that small space which could be for like the land use clerk who might help consolidate >> temporary more temporary people. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right.
>> So I guess um the next step would just be counting bodies and making sure that we have we haven't forgotten anybody, right? >> Um >> give you the feedback. >> You'll say Haley wouldn't need that big of an office. That's a pretty big
office. >> Which one are you talking about? former police >> uh the >> conference. >> Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm mixing that up. So, the big office now is the >> C assessor, right? Tax collector.
>> Yes. Okay. >> And that wouldn't change that that big office or would you think that a little bit maybe? >> It's certainly not out of the picture. My my uh interest here was just showing Yes. If you remove the police department, you have this one larger
space >> which could be I mean, you know, we can put partitions almost anywhere. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> and we really should call this one near the elevator storage. It It truly is not
an office. >> You mean 2021? >> 212. >> Oh, that's probably what was on the uh that was probably an office previously. Uh, not for a long time, but anyways. >> Well, oh, >> all these old
>> 2002 set of drawings that Wilson uh >> used this apparently was Yeah, but that's storage. >> Yeah. Right. >> That was the bathroom. Correct. >> Once upon a time >> or was it Haley's office? >> No, Haley's office and your office were
the boys and girls bathrooms. So where it says office, Susie is what you're talking 12. Okay. >> Um and I think you know one of the things we will look at when we're
starting to like place people is that um we really wanted to give the town clerk bigger space. It's it's really inadequate. Right. is it's 124 by 20 >> um in the in the current conference room and some of the stuff can be taken out
of there. Here's another concept of moving stuff around is you might think about using the corridor outside the former police in the conference room or the copier and sort of office things because that corridor's wide enough to
be ADA to allow a a work space there and then that keeps the town clerk from hopping down the stairs or using the lift every time. Right? So, if that does that, then the copier rooms for either
just storage. Um, which may be true if the town clerk's space isn't big enough, but in the conference room, but you know, it's kind of like a work in progress. >> Yeah. Another thought,
I don't know how much more space the clerk would like, but if you took the conference room and say the clerk has like this part >> and as you come in the door so and there' be a partition so that could be
shut off. There'd be the copier and then there could be storage >> and then a door to hear. so much interaction with the public, >> right, >> needs to have some way of doing that. So, currently a table's there >> in the hallway,
>> but that was actually probably not okay cuz >> Well, we did you took the table out. It was a lift. Yeah. >> And so, yeah. So, there's functions and they'll figure it out. >> Um, and it is significantly bigger than it's more than twice as big as the
current thing now. And one thing the cler the town clerk's office ends up doing is having projects where you have to have a table and spread out, >> right? >> And so they can figure it out. Um >> and if we have a if we have a good um
meeting space upstairs, you know, at the table, then that's potentially could be used. >> Yep. And it's right next door and it's not carrying everything down here. Um, so that's great. And and now we have this so we could we could shift things around.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. You see the what I what I do with Pat, so you know, she did the original drawings and then and I just mark them up >> and scan them and send them to her
>> and then she sends me back >> the finished. So, anything that we um and then she's I'm pretty certain >> keeping these like we'll say there's >> version ones, >> version one, version two all the way along. >> Yeah. >> Um
>> great. So yeah, any any additional changes we want to make, I will make them on these and then send them off to her. So >> can I go ahead, Paul? >> I was going to say, was he thinking that that uh new larger space in there would
serve for like select board meetings and and bigger bigger public meetings or >> We talked about this board going that way. >> I'm sorry. We talked about the select board going over to the library space comes another meeting space. I mean wherever you set that up or you know
that arrangement. Um so >> we're talking about the old library that's the new library >> and so talk about that too. Yeah. >> And the select board leading as that's a decent meeting space and here you are and here's the equipment over there. I I feel like um and I can talk about my
conversation with Susan Mills. Right. >> Um I think that we have floated the idea of old library being a meeting space and there's still interest by by the
police department which we'll see from um a conversational endeavor. Can um can we just run through make sure I'm not missing anybody everybody that we need to accommodate. So, town clerk, town administrator,
administrative assistant, land use clerk, accountant, tax collector, assessors, treasurer,
and then police. I miss anybody. a board of health >> and consum >> well that's that's um the land use clerk but >> that's only how that goes >> too much he works for the um conservation commission so he does all
their work >> so everything else is remote and there's no stuff that they have >> there's stuff there's lots of stuff that whole thing I think is conservation commission stuff but in terms of bodies yeah that's what I'm really thinking >> well it's called bodies and workspace
Yeah, but they don't come in and work. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Did you say something? >> That's the public nurse. >> Oh, the public nurse. Yeah. Thanks, Devin. So, town clerk, town administrator, administrative assistant, land use
clerk, accountant, tax collector, assessors, uh treasurer, board of health, public nurse, and police. elections. I mean, what are we what are we doing here? I'm trying to figure out how big this picture is.
>> Well, elections, I'm I'm not talking about activities. I'm talking about bodies. Like, where do who do we need space for? um that's you know in the town hall on a regular basis I think know
periodic um somebody needing space to uh assemble those letters you know whatever it is you know we now have some common spaces that could serve that purpose or you know if somebody from tax collector you know if she needs a big space we
could uh reserve you know one of the the meeting rooms, that sort of thing. But, you know, I I I don't want to give somebody a or say you had this huge office and once or twice a year you need a lot of space. It doesn't make any sense. So, um
so that >> can we just run through sort of very generally where people might be? >> You want to hear from the um COA Um,
>> well, I think we all these people would be upstairs, right? >> Not the public nurse. >> Not the police, >> not the right. >> But if we were just doing the upstairs
when we assign and just make sure we have enough space. So this one right now, this big office. Well, let's start. You had the clerk here. And my sense is that that the clerk space, you know, one of the things I remember hearing from Grace was like
if she could have had um like more of a counter, and I know you had it set up when you were in there, there was a counter. Then the table got moved out and then we were blocking our ADA accessibility. Not a good thing. Um uh
so you know we took the table out of there. The other issue I know that Grace talked about was being the first eyes on somebody coming into um the building and
that that was kind of disruptive um at times and people were assuming that she could help them do whatever they needed. >> Yeah. >> What it is to do. So, um, you know, it might make more sense not to not to lay
that on the the the clerk, but rather know people, this is an office. People are going to move into the hallway and then get help that either Brennan's here four days a week, um, Haley's here, you know, there are
other people. Ellen's around a lot. Um, so it's not Yeah. Just something to think about. >> The the um signs aged out. I don't even know what they are. We we don't look at them, but there's not there hasn't been
good accurate signage. Um and yeah, you know, we you can direct people that there's a clear path and then you also have to decide what those roles and responsibilities are. Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. Um right. I think there's there's better signage now. I mean, I know you
have signage on the doors, but we don't have the very a lot of places you have the thing kind of people can look up to go. >> Um, >> but so could we just place people and this is very very preliminary, but where
would we see the town clerk going? I think it's in the current conference room which doesn't have a number but >> yeah we put a number on that like all the other rooms those
>> Oh yeah the numbers >> what's that >> I see that >> yeah well that it has the um has that uh counter
>> that can be moved um I could also see the collect says on calendar as well. I just want to make sure we have enough. Yeah. Let's put Let's put the people we know definitely where they go. Like we would
leave the town accountant in the office on the end the end of the hall. >> 202 >> 202 >> accountant. >> Okay, that's accountant. And then we would leave the TA where she
currently is and >> in I don't know all these things so it's >> sorry. Yep. And then 206 admin assistant. I'm going to just check people off as we
um accountant um and Um, >> so if we had left the assessors there. Let's see. I think we could put the town treasurer down where the clerk is. I
mean, he's rarely here, it would be always, you know, people would just be forced to go. >> Well, he if we move the work station out into the hallway, he could be in the copier space. I mean, he's so not there. And then the town clerk go through his office, get to the bathroom.
>> Yeah. But he's not there as opposed to putting the land use clerk in the old in number 211 where the PC is. >> I'll see. Yeah. >> But you don't need him to deal with the toilet traffic, but the treasurer could be um in 210. Yeah.
>> And then that gives Ellen the ability to push back into the push across the room into her into her space to do um a counter. >> Does the treasurer need secure space? Cuz if it's open with a bathroom there,
my question is um >> there's the hall closet. Oh, that's probably what this picture is. There's actually a hall closet past the administrative assistance office and I think in this picture it's reversed.
Is that right, Brennan? >> I just It's between that >> stairs in the elevator. >> I think it's that little nook right between >> Oh. Oh, yeah. There is a little >> Oh, that's the closet. You can see behind me.
>> So, what do you think this little dead space between room 206 and 208 is? between six. >> I know that Ellen has a bit of a closet off of her space, so that might be one of them. >> I don't know. I don't know what that is.
>> That might be one of them. >> Yeah. And her closet is >> Well, on the on the TA the TA's office, uh the chimney. >> Yeah, that's that in that space. >> And then there's shelving. But on the
administrative assistant between 206 and 208 um >> you got a window. >> Got >> no there. Oh, I'm sorry. >> That's an office little office. >> This is a closet
>> in her closet. She has >> from the >> Yeah. All right. So, there's there's a door there that's not showing. Okay. >> It's right there. And then if we talk about secure space and her space is getting rearranged, maybe that space is
secure enough for treasurer records or in the closet in the closet with the window. But then there's another dead space. I don't know what the hell that is. >> That's where the children hammer into my wall.
>> That's a good idea. Okay. So, we got we have that urinal plumbing. >> So, treasure and pen. Is that what we doing for now? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um
and land use purpose across across the hall. >> Um >> do we want to for right now call do we give numbers to the conference room and the would be helpful. How about uh 212 for the conference room and 213 for the
place? >> No, we got a 212 down hall. >> So, let's go up to 213. >> 213 for conference. Yeah. >> 213 and 14th. >> 214. >> Yeah. >> Um, so we have in this,
>> let's say in in this this space in 208, I'm going to use my numbers. In 208, we have the assessors and tax collector. We could build a, you know, we could build a >> counter and put a counter, >> right?
Um, and that takes care of it. Oh, you right. >> We We haven't put the clerk anywhere yet. >> Um, oh, town clerk >> 214. Wait,
>> maybe do 213 for the clerk and then 214 to use as a conference room. >> Does that conference room did would we envision it to be um tech ready or >> that would be tech ready? >> So yeah, depending upon what we end up
doing with other Yeah. other space. But >> so are you thinking um in that paradigm is that um more accessible as a meeting space than the library the um old library.
>> It's 16 by 20. >> It's it's um always with the spe I'm going to call it the spear bu spear building from now on. Um you know parking's an issue there. So I think you can get like four cars, five
cars maybe. It's a handicap space, >> five, six, >> but it's it's it's tight, you know, and you have you don't want people parking on the common. So and one of the things, you know, we we've talked about with any use of that building across the way. It's obviously not especially if you had
a night meeting, not people crossing the street. So, >> so what so 214 again is >> conference meeting tech ready you know there is that storage closet >> which one did you
>> in 214 that you know >> there is >> just wondering if that's be made better use of with that closet space there you know or just use it for storage in general for you know miscellaneous stuff >> so the the town clerk needs secure storage right Um, yes. Because of all
the election stuff, it has to get locked away. >> So, town clerk in here. >> And what did you call that number? 214. >> Yeah, I made of 214. I made uh conference room 213. >> Okay. >> Then then, >> oh, wait a minute. So, you're putting
the clerk in the larger space. >> We're just >> I was just bumping around right now. >> Bumping around. >> Yeah. >> The advantage of that is there's a secure storage which election materials have to be stored securely. But it would be pretty easy to put in
>> too small with everything out of out of room. a 12 by 20 space is um pretty >> pretty what >> it's pretty good for a small meeting because now >> you mean here
>> yeah let's say this was a conference counselor um and we could always I I guess I don't know if town clerk and tax collector would work. I mean, they're both there a lot. So, it's I don't know how just um you know, if we
decided we needed to keep that top of your room and put the treasurer back into that assessor's space. >> All right. Well, that's close enough. I think we have everybody covered. We have enough room for everybody upstairs.
And we have a a model of we're thinking the primary meeting space that's being replaced from down here is in room 213 and the overflow meeting which that if we ever get back to in person that would
use the spear. >> Yeah. So >> again, a number of tech stations that we need to do this >> then if that's the case, if that was going to be the primary space because you know for let's say the select board, we could have 10 people
and we might want to do it here versus somewhere else. >> Yes. Upstairs. Yeah. So maybe the town is 13. We swap that. Make this conference room and a multi-purpose room.
>> 14. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then we build some secure storage for the TC. >> We could even move that wall a little bit. Do you know we could we could build a closet that bumps into that um into 214. Okay.
That makes sense. >> Report of health. >> Order of health. I think what we would want to do is maybe put them I don't know if it's weird to put them in with the task collector and the assessors. And again, there's nobody here on a
regular basis, right? >> They have a lot of files. >> They have a lot of files. So when we think about room oh so we're we're thinking we're not deciding >> the room with the most amount of space
>> kids >> needs to have space for the board of health files which are physical and there's I don't know a bank of how many um and consom before they I for I don't
know where it's at now but Kanscom had a lot of filing stuff boxes and boxes. So it seems board of health and um >> that's l when you said I think land
>> yeah except for I'm just talking about not the work but the storage. So, um, >> what if we what if the what if the land use clerk went in and the the board of health went into into 211 and then
the land use clerk went into 208. That that's a pretty big room. That is the biggest room here. And we only right now have two people who are here on a regular basis. Land use clerk
and you have to do some sound deal with some sound stuff. Um >> if we if we stay with the idea that the conference uh that room 214 is the
biggest then um it could be a meeting conference space and have the land use clerk >> that's true >> in it and and the storage of the stuff for the board of health. So the conference room wouldn't be a fixed for
only meetings. It would be a room kind of like it is now. It it has functions like storing and and office work for land use, board of health, >> and that bigger space would allow you to
have the setup for a meeting that um you know a table the unit >> um >> and it's got the secured storage for the board of health, you know, as part of that space. So I yeah, I like that idea. >> So say that again. So that that two 214
becomes a conference room or to health. >> Yeah. >> Or to health because that's not nobody's here on a regular basis or storage >> and it could use it could have the land use because they have a lot of files and that's the bigger room to to store
things. >> But why not across the whole in 208 because we only right now have assessors and tax collectors. Excellent. >> Could have the files. Um >> think that the door of the tax collector and the history of walking in there.
>> Um that's how that sets in people's minds and in in Ellen's mind. If you're going to have somebody else coming and going for files, they would not be they would be in the back of that room where the treasurer is now. And that's I mean you can always store stuff there, but
it's it is the traffic of a tax collector office and that's not always um something you want to have there. There's a level of privacy that's needed. >> Although doesn't have it now because Leslie's there so
>> I just say sheess is there. Yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. Right. >> I don't know if we've talked about this before. Have you thought about So I think the town clerk makes the most sense for 214 because we need to keep the vital records secure and at some
point we want to get a vault for those records. I think we're actually mandated to have. Um what if you put the treasurer into 211 because then that's secure. I don't know that you would want him to have the office with the bathroom in the back
because people shouldn't be walking through his office with all the cash and all the the thing the you know the personnel files that he has to keep secure. I think he would want to have more um better access to that >> but he's not here. I mean, he's not
during any weeks. >> We've talked about that. I don't know that you want people to walk through his office. >> Right. >> Um, but I think that So, one other thing I can tell you is I did put in a capital request to do some automation of our
filings. So, that would include the board of health files. So, if that got approved, theoretically, we could have all those records digitized and you wouldn't need the excess storage space for that. And I know that's what um Matteo is doing with the planning board
and he's he's been scanning and digitizing. He's keeping paper when he needs to, but otherwise everything is going to be I mean it's the way to go. >> And did anybody find out for sure that the state records allows you to not have physical copies?
>> Yeah, he's he's >> did that for his stuff? >> Yep. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's he's checked all of that. Well, I think I don't want to get like try to micromanage this now. I mean, I think what we have is like we have enough space and how it gets really
how it gets tweaked, you know, we can decide at some point in the future, but it's um that works. >> So, >> it probably would be very helpful at least for me this point to hear about
the Council on Aging perspective and the new library. Okay. >> Options. Sure. Yeah. Susie, you want to do? >> So, um I met with Susan Millinger. Um and I still need to meet with Jessica, make peace. Um but our conversation with
Susan um was there's no law that says the COA has to be in an exclusive space. Although there is a law that says they can share their space with the veterans office and the
public nurse, but um so that they they would have that sort of anticipated. We don't have those two. We do have the public nurse. um she saw it um that they would want to be the
deciderers about and people would come to them and say I need the space for this or this and this kind of the way the library will be. There will be a person who you check in with and then you go ahead and do it. She understands that it's not um exclusive use, but it
would be they would be the um traffic cop of it or whatever. Um there are there are other possible things that they're going to adventure into the idea that they're more collaborative and
integrated to village neighbors in terms of services that are being provided um in that bill in that space right now there's the public health nurse the COA lunchon the foot clinic and the foot
clinic check-in um because there's a certain certain amount of privacy for a foot clinic. Um there is been talk about a food pantry um which there's some stuff at the
school that way. And so if we if the food pantry moved out of the school, which I think they want they want it to move out, then it might be that the kitchen provides the food pantry space and then you have to think about how to
organize that. Um there is there's talk about um how to if I guess Jessica make peaceful sees having food provided on a more regular basis not
just once a month for the senior lunchon and um In you >> mean like a like a >> like life serve? >> Yeah, Life Path provides it in New Wing in New Salem in the church basement.
They they bring meals on wheels to the New Salem um church. That's where they do it. Um Leit has a catered lunch. Um, Jen Boron does that and that one
people pay something and I don't know how frequent it is but there's other models for food service. Um, some of those models are about much more about need rather than social interaction. Ours is a social interaction right now
for once a month senior. So that's that's a thinking and it may end up using their room more regularly. Um, and oh, and they would like to be able
to access the um a broom and a dust pan, which whether you put that in the kitchen instead of the locked utility room might be helpful, just a little broom closet. >> And um I guess that was it. So, she was
she understood what we were talking about. And I think that the the um process of making the people you check in with and book the room that will be sufficient. Um they will probably have some regular events that you wouldn't be
able to come you know bump the foot the foot clinic. Um, so you'd have to add put your use in a calendar and it would have to have some it would have some fixed dates, but she could see that as a
model. Um, and then I'll just report what Maryanne said. So I talked to her about the um what she was envisioning for the use of the um the community room at the new library. I think the capacity is 49
if I'm remembering it correctly. Um, and there is potential overflow space in the lobby, correct? So, you could set, you know, some um some some chairs up there to make it a um a bigger space. Um they are in the process right now of
developing a um a policy and a you know guidance about use of the library. And so that's in the works, but it's not complete. But her vision and her um understanding just from you know
discussions with the trustees um is that that is a that's a community space and that um the first priority is always going to be in a library activities. Um but thereafter any other um you know
town department committee um that they would have a preference over say you know a private group or um coming in and that um know we've always we have and she said you know we've always talked
about having this community space and we expect that so you know I said for example if the planning board had a a hearing and they were anticipating 30 or 40 people showing up. Um, you could see having the library said, "Oh, yeah, absolutely." And I said, you
know, I think there'd be a threshold where you move from if you think it's more the 50, then we're going to have to look at the school um or somewhere else. But I I don't recall other than you know town meetings like special town meetings
when you know we'd have people down here that we ever had that huge a group where we couldn't just say okay we need to make um a plan. So, so the first um you know for meetings the first thing would
be town hall, the second the library, the third you know depending upon um size and then the third the school and so that you know that provides a lot of assurance to
boards and committees that there is a space that we don't have to have a space in this building for a large group and the you know the night usage of the library she's not anticipating it's going to be used that much but and we typically
um plan and and I know the boards do typically plan in advance so um so I think that will you know we could have some conflicts now and again but with library activities but she seemed to think it
was a um good and important use of the of the new library. Um, >> that sounds good. >> So, that yeah, that takes some of the pressure off of here. Um and I guess the the question becomes
then um if we go to the lower level uh so what the the only um change is really uh
having this now pretty good size hallway storage area. Maybe it's I don't know what >> hallway is. That's not >> I'm looking now. There's a wall on that pole. >> No, >> there's two poles right there.
>> This pole in the wall. Um that hallway. I was thinking the chairs things are going to go in there. Those cabinets. Those cabinets aren't too deep. I >> You're talking about this space, Susie. You're talking like if we just just did a dotted line
>> that wall there and then look at that wall. What I was what I know is that here that door is here. I guess you could have stuff up against here that wouldn't block that door, but >> this is closer than I thought.
>> Yeah, >> this is Yeah, he's got about >> Yeah. So I guess so I guess I'm So the So I was talking to Dave. He's like, "Where's a chair going?" This is pretty deep space though from that wall over to these posts. You know
again we are really moving towards not having so much real estate dedicated to storage here to paper storage and you know we have to think long term about that. um you if we're digitizing stuff andor we um you know look at the old
town hall for example if if you know really old records that we're not going to have to access very often can go over there um that's you know that should free up space here um
>> so I did want to comment just on the board on the council on aging uh report >> um And because I mean that becomes the biggest space in this building. Yeah. With canoe wall being put in which
>> makes sense for it to be in my opinion like a multi-function. Yeah. Room especially for a lot of the the functions that that you described. You know the foot clinic, the nurse, the food pantry, you know, elections, all things that you know are not regular
regular things that happen every week for example. But uh but the scheduling becomes critical obviously, but it makes sense to have a lot of different things going potentially going on in that space. So I I like that idea, right? >> And I I totally agree that you need one
coordinator, you know, to do the scheduling and make sure you don't have conflicts. So, >> but in that picture, I'm seeing things that are going to get moved into that large space as the chairs. >> Yeah. >> Those tables. >> Yeah. And we know some stuff is going to
be up against this wall that's a hallway, but we we have to sort of see it realistically even though we're opening up the space and it's bigger. Yeah. >> We don't want to have a lot of stuff stored in it or or we want to think about how to store stuff. >> Yeah.
>> And and if again if we're going post to post here, post to post, right? And it starts by the doorway. That's that's a pretty that's a that's a long hall and a good deep space
>> right up against it here. So that they would come in and >> they could zig around the stuff that's stored and reach that door. But uh yeah, that's right. >> Well, we don't have >> It's not too narrow. >> It's but it's not open now, Susie. So it's there's a wall here. So the
question is, do you >> you know, do you have another door here? And then >> yeah, I don't think you need another door there cuz like we talked about things would come in the outer door and traverse this room to get to the utility room, >> right?
>> And um I just wanted to in uh imagine the space with some of the stuff that would be stored there. That's that's here. >> Um David said, "Oh yeah, you can bring those chairs over to the spear." So right yeah, okay. There there are there
are storage spaces. You just have to not end up sort of pitching it all over. That's >> Yeah. And you also don't want to create particularly with the utility room. Um I would think for purposes if there was a fire or you know some event in there um
you want to make sure the access is pretty >> straightforward. I mean you can easily imagine just looking at these four posts right here. Yeah. You know, I mean, if everything behind me here was wide open, right, >> then you get, you know, real easy access
through that room to here. >> Yeah. >> And then you've got this big >> Yeah. No, it's a really goes all the way. >> That's be really useful for meetings and so forth. The post right there. So, I mean, wireless storage, they break
>> in here. >> Um, okay. So >> I I I guess I want to just say that you know in history's time the COA spaces ended up being a collective of collecting of things and so we have to not
>> see it as open space for junk stuff and so as long and and keep that sort of model in place. Yep. >> Okay. Um, I think
maybe it makes sense, Stephen, to have you um report back if you got word from Hawkins on um >> Yeah, he was way last. >> Oh, no. Oh, no. >> People have lives.
>> I was uh persistent. So, um here's what I I've got. So if uh spear is say kept as a meeting place >> Yeah. >> but we change it from a composting toilet to a conventional bathroom toilet sink that that you have to go through
the board of health. >> Um and I think Paul had asked a question earlier about in a previous meeting about like how much before you have to bring things up to code >> right
>> if you got the building. So if you just, you know, strip the interior out, you know, you're going to put new everything, new, then you got to bring it up to code. So as long as we don't really mess with the existing walls, because I said I asked about, you know, I said, well, if we change it to
offices, >> right? >> And I said maybe two to four offices would be the most. So, you got partitions, you got electricity for the receptacles. We're going to have a conventional bathroom and then we'd
probably have to consider upgrading uh and the heating, maybe another mini split or more. Um, you know, he didn't see that that would trigger bringing it up to code. We're not gutting it. >> Mhm. >> But you know, he did
>> the ch the change in use, which is what we had talked about, >> is not a trigger if it's going unless it's being gutted. >> Well, correct. Yeah. Yeah. Gutting it then
means bring it up to code if you're changing use but not gutting it to do that. >> And we're just talking building codes here, not sanitation codes, right? in what you're talking right now other than >> correct although I did talk to uh
>> forget the gentleman's name Mr. French I think yeah >> plumbing oh >> spectrum I'll get to that but you know he did u Mr. Hawkins did say, you know, for any of this, um, you need plan, you know, architects plans and you're going to need a permit. So then I also asked
about town hall, you know, if we're adding or removing partitions to redefine spaces, obviously electrical in those partitions, possib, you know, if we do the kitchen, we might need to move a radiator, uh, reorganize the existing
kitchen. again his only thing was plans and permit. >> Um now um so also in talking with him if the uh spear was made into the police
department that's considered offices. >> Oh okay. Yeah. And then uh when I talked to the plumbing inspector and I was asking about bathroom, he said, "Well, you need to know how many
people are going to be using the space because then there's a chart in the code uh where you figure out the load and then and then how many bathrooms >> size." Yeah. >> Not the size of bathroom, how many
>> the size any bathroom has to be ADA. Yeah, I meant size of septic system and all of that. But >> can you just repeat that? I got distracted. There's a chart for use. So >> yeah, then >> so if if you're going to say make it
into offices, so police station or offices >> you need to >> then you have to determine how many people are going to be and I don't know >> is that like in there every day or what, but you know maybe you have to figure that out and then in the code uh there's
a chart that you then use to determine >> how many bathrooms. And this morning before I went to the new library uh for lighting training um I did go online and find the table
but I didn't go to so I'm going to see if I could yeah >> find out anymore there. So then um in addition uh you know with my discussion with Mr. French, you know, I explained there was this nonfunctioning composting toilet and we
left it as a meeting place. Could we put a new composting toilet? He said the key there is the product has to be quote board approved. So apparently when you investigate the product you'd find out >> which board is that
>> probably board of well D as well. Yeah. you know, and my guess is the um sort of basic concept that Mary Joe was talking about probably would not be. >> Yeah. I mean something that was also
mentioned to me which I know was brought up at our last meeting like if we had a composting toilet who's emptying the uh right >> and um and our uh custodian had been doing it over at the library and it's
really like a public health hazard a little bit. You know you're asking somebody to touch >> right >> you know I think I think we have to put a bathroom over there >> and you made that comment. Yeah, >> last meeting about, you know, even if we
could put a composting toilet in there, is that what we want? And I and I thought about it more. I I agree. >> Yeah. >> And Maryanne made a very strong statement about if that was ever proposed, she would stand up and uh voice her opposition,
>> right, loudly. >> Yeah. So, so it sounds like um if it was say if it was offices, let's just let's talk about the range like you know offices there were going
to be four people in there every day and then the public in >> um >> that at some point we might pass a threshold where we'd have to have more than one bathroom. If it was the police department and there were two people
routinely in there, occasionally um somebody who's been arrested or of the public coming in just to transact some business, but not >> not do a lot there, then we could probably get away with one toilet. >> Is there any gender issues on the toilet
chart? Oh, you don't you didn't >> I haven't looked at the chart, but um I can't remember if I asked that question. The plumbing inspector or not, but one last thing. So, I asked him about a tight tank, you know. >> Yeah.
>> And he said that's a board of health uh question, right? >> Do you know if the EP has a issue on tight tanks? >> You know, it was interesting. I I did some research on that and um right now there uh their website at least uh just
uh has two allowable alternatives to regular title 5 systems >> and uh one is the uh composting toilet that you can do at least without uh you don't have to get a special permit for that. I mean they've already pre-approved
>> you know allowable uh >> composting toilet. The other is a circulating sand filtration system I think um which requires a water source. So, in that case, you might as well just put in a regular, you know, title five
system. But those are the only two that, you know, that they've um they've approved. Although, TI tanks, you know, a number of titles title five. >> Yeah. So, that that must be in a different part of the regulations. It's not in the alternative, you know, to
regular title five section. So, but obviously they're, you know, they're >> they have to, too. >> Yeah. They could be approved. I don't know if they would approve for this, but >> yeah. Anyway, as you found out, uh, Stephen, board of health is a real key for, you know, all of these decisions.
>> Yeah. And we might want to invite them. >> We have to talk to them. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they would have a lot of information. >> They've also seen systems. >> They've seen a lot of systems at the lake. They have some experience. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we can we can kind of assume that
we're going to need at least one bathroom there. and regardless of what we end up doing with it. >> Right. Right. >> And that it's going to have to be a title five compliant system. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I said last time um
in in my opinion, you know, having a water source title five septic system and one or two bathrooms. And that that's almost like a minor consideration where they have one or two at that point because of the total cost of everything else, you know, the water and and the
septic system. So >> So second bathroom space-wise might be an issue, but yeah, costwise, it probably not a whole lot more. >> There is water on the town common, so the church um a well there, but
>> I don't. >> And that well used to serve old town hall. did. >> Yeah. On across. >> So, probably sufficient although it has few. We know that. Um >> that's also just a shallow
>> shallow. Yeah. Not a deep problems with it. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. And there may be new, you know, regulations for a municipal, you know, use that a private church does not have to abide by. I don't know. But
>> oh, okay. >> And originally the um when it was considered to put the library over there, they were piping it across from here, right? That they were using this well and piping it over the street. I think that was the last >> possible >> scenario.
>> Okay. So water from here. >> Yeah. So we're talking about some big bucks for, you know, water and septic obviously. And I think you know that I have heard people say that one of the issues over Spear Library site is
that there might be some serious underground rock. >> Yeah. >> Right there. >> Yeah. >> Well, I was noticing one of the maps I was looking at it. Okay. They're pretty general, but it's like Oh, yeah. I see that could be.
So that could pose a real problem for putting anything in the ground >> and we don't have there's not a lot of room. I mean you end up being on the town common and then the use of the town common is really is is limited by by
statute. I mean we we can't start messing around there. So um >> I would think but behind >> if you could put a Titan >> Yeah. Um, and you know, it's not prohibitively
costly to install it off to the downhill side, if you will. There's a little bit of space >> mean kind of on the on the east side of the >> lens. Yeah.
>> And and towards the uh north >> kind of where that propane tank is stuck in the bushes. >> Yeah. with what's stuck in the bushes. >> Propane tank. >> Oh, there >> when we get our grant get rid of that. >> Yeah. Right. Um,
so regardless, it seems that doing that, regardless of use, it seems like doing that, assuming that we would need a bathroom over there, doing that research and
starting to put some maybe dollar signs to it, >> um, would be a good thing to do. Next, >> finally remember, Stephen, um, and I should know because I was crawling in there a couple times underneath, you know, when I did that window repair.
>> Was the that that basement space, you know, on two different levels because of ledge. Is that that may be the case? That's maybe why I had to kind of crawl across narrow part because there was ledge underneath there. >> Certainly possible.
>> Yeah. But you know a lot of times um in older buildings the basement would be there to put say your system in you know so they had the floor that first >> and uh and the chimney
for that and then you know you don't need to dig anything else out >> right >> so they only as much as they had to you know >> yeah I mean if it was easy to dig in the crawl space. That would be one place that's not where it's going to go. So,
>> yeah. All right. Well, anyway, I I suspect that the alleged issue is probably going to affect a tight tank, you know, installation and and a, you know, title five system as well. So, >> so yeah, there's a bunch of research to do I guess Rita as you suggesting
>> and uh earlier uh several years ago when the buildings committee was talking about possibility of a bathroom in there, uh one thought was, well,
could you run a the waistline from there cross the road all the way over to tie into this system? But you'd have to again calculate the load of that this system is handling and whether or not it could handle the additional load
>> plus you know I mean >> pump probably. I mean it wouldn't gravity feed a bus. >> Well, >> I think there's a good chance. Yeah. I mean I >> that's a long way though. >> Yeah. >> Well more money. >> Yeah. >> Big bucks there.
>> Yeah. But it it could be just as costly >> of doing it over there, >> tying it in. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, so who how would we move forward on this? I'm just thinking about, you know,
who's who's the expert on um >> well, typically >> septic systems and bathrooms and water and >> Yeah. Well, again, board of health, you know, would be a good place to start, but typically, you know, if you were gonna put in a system at a home, you'd
you'd have a >> perk test done. >> Yeah. >> And and you know, that's one of the first things we need to know. I mean, can we get any kind of system over there? >> Well, a tight tank doesn't need a perk, right? >> Correct. >> No, but it would need blasting probably,
you know, if you got ledge. So, so yeah, we we'd still want to know, you know, what's underground there and whether it's >> wonder except Clark uh WW Clark knows the town pretty well. >> I don't think they've done any activity
up there. >> They're digging around in there. Whoever did the addition to the ramp and the bathroom may have had a insight >> or who did um Julie's house when she built her new house which is just well
that's kind of behind the church um tell us. So, um maybe for the maybe for the next meeting we see if we can get somebody we have Cat or and maybe somebody else from the board of health come and attend our meeting.
>> I think we're ready for that. talk about some of the basics and then I guess my question is whether there's um you know somebody who does design slash perk testing who might be
>> that cost money >> you might want to talk to >> I don't know how far the library how far it went when the li when it was contemplated about putting the new library if they ever had any experts. I could check with Maryanne.
>> Yeah, good idea. >> See? >> Yeah. >> There's a guy. Oh gosh, I'm trying to think. Um, >> he lives on Shootsbury Road in Pelum. Rick Scott. >> Rick Scott. Yeah, he was a He did our
>> our design for our very first house. Oh, did he? Way back in the 80s. So alive. Still alive. I saw him I saw him now walking right. He's retired. Yeah. But, you know, maybe he'd be maybe we could get kind of as a as a freebie because otherwise I think
we're starting to shop without some significant money. >> Yeah. >> Um uh you know, we could see um Janet, his his wife, used to babysit for Maggie. >> Oh. >> How many years ago? 36 years ago. Yeah.
But, you know, I could call Rick, I guess, um, >> and just to, um, walk through an exercise where we roughly say what the options are so that we have a sense of if if we feel like there's no
options in certain categories, then we're done with that. But um so so >> you mean options >> for the >> well no I'm just want to say the rough option. So the first option is meeting space no toilet
that's the the one the next one is um offices toilet >> and toilet and in that and then it's department police department. >> Yep. and toilet >> toilet.
>> And >> can I just Yep. stop you there. Um, so this assumes we're not needing to do a gut rehab for any of these. >> All of it. Right. All of these are not not breaking into >> no gut rehab to bring it up to current
code. >> And toilet. When you say toilet, you're we're talking about the whole thing. Water and septic, >> right? >> Yeah. We're not I think we're not talking about composting toilets anymore. Um those are those are the ones, right?
Those are the possible. And so I mean I'm thinking about when you're talking to town meeting, you're saying here's some options for using that space. Here's what they would require. Here's what the prices look like. Um, and you
know, we we can always make a recommendation, but it it is going to be a town meeting vote, and I feel like they need to see what the range of what we considered is and what um and what what the uh of ins and outs of each one is.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I see us coming with a recommendation, the select board making a recommendation to town meeting, not having a pick from this menu because I think >> Yeah. I I I would hope at that point we have gone through a whole process and said this is what we think makes sense
for this and this is what it's going to cost. Fall back is if if we're strictly doing a meeting space um then uh it's it's minimal um what has to be done there. We're doing a meeting space with
no toilet. Right. Yeah. I just feel like you have you have to sort of go through that exercise because people are going to press you. Did you think of this? Did you think that? >> Yeah. Look, we'll have a meeting ahead of time. I don't want to do that on town meeting floor. I think if you know that
could be part of our public process of >> um including folks. Um so so we have the board of health at our next meeting and then I'll see I'll talk to Rick Scott. Um I don't know if
there's anybody else in town who um is >> a civil engineer. Is that who I don't know who would you who would you use >> Stephen? Who did the library used to that um what's the name?
>> Who did they use to help figure out their subject needs? >> Good question. >> It's the um is it the company that did all the testing and I can't >> Oh, Fen O'Neal. >> Yeah, Fel O'Neal. >> Is it them? I think so. >> And you start when you start talking to
those guys. >> I know. I know. >> Cha-ching. Chuching. >> And Alan is Alan Weissic. Nobody knows. I don't know. Isn't he Alan? >> Oh, actually Florida Health can tell us. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. No, I was thinking about the guy who does all the the water stuff who's on Wendell Road offend. What's his name? >> Aler. Aler. Yeah. I was going to say he's a good friend of mine. I'll I'll check with Al. Okay. Um because he he would probably know the geology or be
able to help us figure out the geology on that site pretty quickly. >> Yeah, that would be great. So, um and then um then that might drive us, you know
what I mean? And and then I guess the last um or we could the other factor the other variable here is onsite or across the road, right? Do we have to >> toilet the water and
>> water and the septic is um what would what are the advantages disadvantages of doing it you know onsite slash common >> versus
um linking to link to town hall. Yeah, it really needs to be somebody who's got some expertise in in design and >> Right. >> Here's a totally offthe-wall. >> Um, what about jacking the building up
and relocating it? >> The M and Spear buildings behind here. >> That's just another question. I mean, I I've David has done work with a company that pains jacks up and moves buildings. They moved a couple out of
Ammeris College across town >> and um that's small compared to what they moved. Um it it maintains the building and um you could just bring it to where the water is, >> right?
to the bathroom and you could >> and you could put a full basement and do it in a way that it would be usable space. You know, just as a little tidbit of a sidlight tidbit here, our first house
that we bought in Northampton back in the um early >> 80s, >> it was over up near Smith College. It had been moved in the late 1800s from like Massoy Street just you know down the hill couple hundred yards with horses.
>> Yeah, >> this is a big big you know with horses in the late 1800s. >> And aren't there even houses in the bobin? >> Yeah, we can just say that was a building. >> That's an intriguing that's an intriguing uh
>> with for it was the with Forces part that amazed me. I mean, no once in a while when you know, you see the pictures of the big bulldozers, you know, carrying them out and so forth, but horses. Wow. >> That's such a pretty building. I hate to um was it like when we had talked about we put the new library behind here and
and I remember the MBLC said, "Oh, we want it to be visible and all of that, but but you know, >> it's you could have a little town common behind here." Yeah, that >> could be the police department.
>> Yeah. >> Anyways, that that's something that >> so when when we start talking with people, you know, especially design, you know, type people, engineers, um for input, they're probably going to want to say, well, you know, how many people are
we talking about? You know, those charts that you talked about, Stephen, you know, where are we on that chart? You know, that. So those kinds of questions we may want to think through a little bit just in terms like well offices how many would we have how many people are we talking about >> right >> you know
>> police department we we could pretty much you know tell them but >> just have some rough figures at least so they would know where we land on the chart and and that translation cost >> I think it would be relative under 10 so I don't know what the what the thresholds are for um
>> I'll see if I can track down this today. >> Uh, so you'll talk to El Warner. I'll talk to Rick Scott. Um, uh, somebody want to talk to Cad or you
want me to talk to Kat about >> I'll talk to Kat. >> Okay. About coming to our next meeting? >> Yeah. >> Where we are? Um and hey, did you have um couple considerations?
I also wanted to talk about the food pantry idea because that was that's actually the main reason why I'm here today. But I did thinking about, you know, if that becomes office space at MNPO. >> Yeah, I've worked in places where my staff are on different levels or they're
not all in the same place. It is a lot harder operationally. Yeah. To like get that kind of direct like I just go to Gail's office or go to Ellen. >> That's one thing. Um but as far as the food pantry goes, I have been working
with COA Mark Ellis and a couple folks on the PTA. So the school right now is doing like they package up donated goods and then give them to families in need. What they're doing is exceeding their space. It's basically they're doing it out of their admin office and the
event's taking it too for them. >> Um I thought that and the church also does its own collection. >> Yeah. >> So I thought well combine forces and really effective for the COA because I guarantee you there are a lot of older folks in town who either cannot get to
the grocery store or cannot afford it. Um, it has minimal space needs, but I did think that that could be a component of a meeting appeared. Um, you know, obviously we would do a
donation drive for like, you know, want to leave food out for critters. um you know using the shelving and stuff like that, but that could be a once or twice a month event that would just require some storage space at the M. There's not
really a good location at town hall, but it was something that was table and agreed is a need that met in the community. >> Okay, good. Thank you. That's on the list. >> Um okay. Um, so
let me I let me do my report back on um I told you about Maryanne and the discussion about the new library usage. Um, so Massave, um, Frank McGinn, um, happened to like call the Massave
people at the very right moment and they said, I don't I think you talked to him on a Friday and he notified us Friday night that, oh, somebody can be here Tuesday morning, the following Tuesday. So that happened last week. >> Oh my goodness. >> Um, but it was what it is is um they
they send somebody out to look at this building and to look at the library. They took a bunch of pictures and they are writing something up now. Um, and this is all I mean there's like this convergence of
discussions because there's a bunch of um there's some money that's going to be available through green communities. There's also MVP. There's stuff coming up this, you know, early um 2026. And there there's one application that's due
in February. So, we had a joint meeting. I don't know who was there the other night if anybody's there. Oh, you were there, Stephen, too. Um, you know, it's really ambitious to think we could pull anything together for for February, but you know, there's a there's another
round of like up to a million dollars um with an application due in August. Um, so >> which one was the one in August? >> The one in August was the green communities. The uh the first one was the um the bump up. What is it called? You guys remember? violent leader
status. >> Violent leader status. Yeah. Through um >> that we're just getting that and um there's there's money for schools too. So the school is all I mean it was great to have everybody there sort of just
brainstorming about um you know how we work together. So we will have something from Mass. Frank wasn't sure about the timing he was getting back with people. um his you know what he said just from the you know quick tour that they did
was they basically said the Emmen and Spear Library is kind of like a piece of cake to electrify you know because it's like relatively tight building and um you could >> you mean turn into electrical sources of heat?
>> Yeah. Yep. Um and so um that will be coming forth. I think I think the timing would probably work well because we're going to you know we need to do this sort of other septic uh
water. Um and maybe by the time that's done um we'll have some more information. I think, you know, they took a look at this building and we'll do the same thing um in in giving a
proposal um together about um what could be done and then we'll see what money's available. So um so we're moving on that on that front and and coordinating with the building committee and with um the energy committee too. Um
the other thing that you have in front of you is I had a conversation with um acting police chief uh here yesterday. Um, so you know there's all kinds of issues with with police departments and ever
since the post commission was put into place, you know, what they have what the state has wanted is to professionalize police operations and have uniformity um in every sort of aspect of um of
policing. and they actually, you know, address things such as the as the space that the police department is in. Um there is a, as he said in the first paragraph, there is a carve out for communities of less than 5,000 people
now to um not have to have holding cells. I mean, that that's a whole um level of, you know, additional complication. Um but that right now um one of the things that our police
department does not have that um they really need and makes sense is a is a booking area and uh I think he told me that the booking area in Lever is like 10 by 12. It's a separate space
120 square ft uh a separate space where if somebody's arrested you can you can you know book them whatever is involved in booking. Fortunately I've never been arrested so I can't tell you what booking is like. Anybody here?
>> Raise your hand. Um and um he said right now what they do is if they book somebody they have to bring them to Sunderland or to Leverit which is really not >> um it he did say that when you're booking somebody you typically want
another person around. So he was he said if he was alone and he was booking somebody um he might go to another find another department where there was coverage. Sunderland always you know has 247 there's somebody there so um brings
uh people there. >> Um so there's this police accreditation um commission and um there's like two two levels. There's certification and
then accreditation and um the the certification is is like a you know is is more is sort of entry level and then if you go for
accreditation it's far more um far more rigorous. So there's no definitive there are no definitive guidelines right now around what has to be in a police department
offices. Um but this you know the only thing we could identify sort of immediately is that um is that opening area space. Um the um
the other key which you know we we currently have we have an evidence room you know that narrow uh closet. It's totally inadequate. Um >> it's supposed to you know you're
supposed to have sufficient space to hold on to records for um I think three or >> three to five years. Yeah. And um and it has to be secure and it has to be uh you know no no public access like he he let
me peek in the door and then he quickly closed it. >> Yeah. >> And you know so you're really not because evidence is evidence and nobody should be getting near it touching it. Um so uh so that's something and
obviously environmental controls. Um, so I think uh the last paragraph um small lobby, cubicle area, chief's offices, booking and processing room, evidence room, um interview room, utility and storage, and a restroom that's ADA
compliant um are the key elements in any um space. When we look at this building we have or this space if we were doing some sort of conversion
um the square footage go lower level the square footage of 600 600 plus the closet >> um is
>> um quite a bit bigger than um what the what they currently have which I can't remember the exact number but it was in the 300 something square feet so it's conceivable that um >> well currently I think they have uh
around 340 square ft >> y >> and the and the closet >> and the closet >> and the new space >> the new space if it was here, let's say 600 square ft plus the closet. So there's, you know, that you could do if you take 120 off of that, so you have
480 if you have a um a booking area. Um and you know, sounds like you could you you'd need soundproofing. Um so the other issues that I think uh
Devon had mentioned when he was here at our last meeting and which talked to me about too is um is privacy and uh >> and this this constitutes a private entry doesn't y
>> I think he's saying that that thing is not private but what this is that that's what we went through >> so you know he you know he said to if you're um like you know people coming in and out of a building or in a parking lot if you
have other activities going on like you you know they're arresting somebody but um you know I think that I think that could be addressed you it becomes an issue if you're on the town common too of you know people being able to pull
into that parking lot and >> you can't ever you know I I don't know in Amoris. I bet they have a I bet they have a garage or something that they do. >> They do. They have a garage. But I think what he's saying is that that's not sufficient.
>> But if work was done outside, so there was a privacy fence. Yeah. I mean, you could be offered offered that. You could even have you could have a say a privacy fence and then you could actually have a
one of those uh gates that opens and closes so that you could, you know, if you're bringing somebody in, gate opens. >> You pull in your police vehicle, shut the gate, nobody has clear, >> you know, I mean, >> and like you say,
>> more private than >> Yeah. the street would be much harder to uh create. >> Yes. Yeah. But you could we could do that by doing adaptations outside of of this building. >> Um >> again to ching to ching, you know, there's always money money involved in
whatever we do. So um so we both have to consider >> right >> um >> you know >> cost and and what are you getting for the the dollars? But that was really helpful to have that conversation and to
get kind of a better idea. Um, again I I think we have we have work to do just generally before we make any kind of recommendations um work to do on on on costs around water and sewer. The um
the only other question I think I have for you Stephen is um the way the library is right now um the the sphere building is
would you have to do anything um around insulation or >> well rooms or >> and I I mean the um I have to look at the uh
inspection report, but the insulation in the attic space that's uh done I mean blown in cellulose and that's not at a level you want that could easily be improved. the area in the uh
basement/crawl space. It was fiberglass bats stapled up to the floor joist and the mice have permeated it and it's partially collapsed and you remember some of that. >> So I think the the remedy there would be
you take all that out, you put up rigid insulation and then through that you do dense pack cellulose. But yeah, we'd want to do that. You didn't have like we didn't we wouldn't have to gut the building. >> No, I don't. Yeah. I mean the the
uh return, you know, the payback on opening up the walls and insulating them. >> Yeah. >> Um and maybe stripping the siding off outside and insulating the outside >> um would be the payback would be so far
into the future. >> Yeah. um that in my mind it wouldn't be a value unless unless somebody was saying, "Hey, we'll give you all the money >> to >> right >> open it up." >> Did the mass safe person evaluate uh insulation?
>> Yeah, they they went they went through Spear building. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, if they tried to assess the walls. >> I wasn't I wasn't there. So, um >> uh I I can't answer your question, but I think we're going to have a report from them. I mean they did they were pretty thorough and
>> looking at that. Um, and the only other thing I forgot to mention I think uh was mentioned by um by Deon Pelleter was um Windows is um his
privacy and um I we talked about that, you know, being able to deal with um uh again having a privacy but having enough light. Um,
so that that concludes Oh gosh, it's after 12:00. Um, sort of our agenda. I think we've talked now about what we do at the next meeting. Um, we'll see where we are with uh,
Massave stuff. I wouldn't anticipate we'd have anything back from them yet. It's actually a company. It's not called Massave. It's called I mean Massave contracts with a private contractor. Um it's called energy source and um
so they you know they'll let us know too whether or not we have we can get access to any >> Oh yeah. >> to um uh to do that. And basically what what Frank said was that
they um we can use all the data everything that they've collected to write write the grants. So that's you know um so if we uh focus the next time on just
you know up updates and then focus on the whole question of water and sewer then I think we're kind of making progress um and then the usage kind of comes last because because once we once
we deal with water and sewer at the MN spear if that's the direction and we're going to go or if it's just so prohibitively expensive, we might say, "Okay, we're going to not mothball the building because we have to ensure it, but we're only going to use it for
special events and meetings." Um, but if we want if we want to use it, then you're we're going to have to deal with the the septic and what is that going to cost? And Susie, I um I I find the idea of
like exploring um moving the building entry. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think we should >> cost >> and I I'll find out what that cost is. >> The backyard. Yeah, I know. I know. We got a big space. It's pretty wet out here if I'm not mistaken. We also have
the solar panels and we have the the uh broadband um >> and the propane. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But I'll I'll find out what the ballpark cost for moving a building is. Yeah. because it's not only moving it, it's um
>> hooking up the water, right? >> And um the septic and hooking into it and the and the furnace, I believe it somehow has to be >> So the furnace we we we would end up probably doing mini splits in that building. That would be the heating source. Yeah.
>> Um >> I mean there is one mini split in the building. >> There is. Yeah. >> There's what? >> There is one mini split. >> Yeah. Um, but I don't know that for sure. But I think that's what they were talking about as opposed to >> being able to be open to an idea like
that is a good process. It may not be the answer, but it's another >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I think that's good. >> Stephen, can you tell me what the approximate square footage of spear is? I'm trying to remember from >> All I can tell you is it's 900 square feet.
>> About 900. >> Might be a little more than that. that it's the the bathroom. >> Um, yes, as far as I know. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure I mean that's that's what Maryann >> said in the past. I've never measured
it, right? >> Okay. So, let's talk about >> meeting time. >> This is a Thursday. Then we have Christmas on Thursday. Then we have New Year's on Thursday. >> Want to meet the following week. The first week in January. Is that Oh, wait.
February >> about the 10th. So the 8th of January. >> I'm going away on the 12th of February. >> So >> January 8th. >> January. Let's do January. We can if we can um can get a couple of meetings in
in January. That would be great. >> January 8th. >> What day is that? A Thursday. >> Uhhuh. Yes. >> Okay. January 8th 30. Is that good? >> Yep, >> it's good. >> And um well, thank you all.
Like we've made some progress of having this steep wonderful >> good. Yeah, >> I don't think we need I don't think we need to do any revigoration of any of these walls right now that come here. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, do I hear a motion to adjurnn? So moved. Second. All those >> eyes. >> Lion's eyes. >> All right. Thank you, Caroline. What is this? My first meeting of three today here. >> Yes.
>> What do you need? Oh, great. Thank you.