And will I see if Henry shows up here? in progress. >> There he is. >> There he is. >> Morning, Henry. >> Good morning. >> Morning. >> Okay. Um we are going to go ahead and um
start the meeting of the spear building reuse committee. Today is March 9th, 2026 and this meeting is a hybrid meeting and it is being we have a quorum the meeting I think our
only um absent member is Steven Delvis. Um otherwise all of the members are with us today. Um so let me just uh quickly run through the agenda. We have minutes. Um then we're going to be talking about um any possibility for state grants for
feasibility study. Um reviewing the um chart that was prepared um regarding potential options for reuse of the building. Um preparation for our meeting with the select board on March 17th, any unanticipated business, and then
scheduling our next meeting. So, um, go ahead. And do I hear a motion to approve the minutes of February 19th, 2026? >> Second. >> Second. >> Um, any corrections?
>> I give a couple typos >> to Bren. >> Yeah. And the only thing I would say, um, so that meeting, Stephen Delmas was absent. I don't know if we want to put that on the um >> put that on the minutes too just to reflect that he is a member of the
committee. >> Um so with that >> S one minor thing on uh section 4 >> B I guess goals the very bottom of that
page goals will be added as a section >> I think that was um that was not quite accurate. I think what we discussed about was adding a column for um does it does it achieve multiple goals.
>> Oh, is that right? I think that was your recommendation. Yeah. Okay. >> So, kind of a minor difference, but >> you understand that one, Brennan. >> How how would you word it? >> Yes. >> Will multiple goals be addressed? Maybe something like that.
>> Oh, yeah. So will multiple goals. >> Yeah. Or in the actual uh chart we have addresses multiple needs. So >> Oh, there it is. >> Yeah. We could we could actually say, you know, does it address multiple
needs? You know, would be a >> an additional column. >> That's all I have. >> Okay. Anything else? All right. So, with those um changes,
uh you all set to to vote. Is everybody in agreement on the changes? Okay. Um, all those in favor of approving the minutes as uh just amended, please signify by saying I.
>> Our eye. >> I lion's eye. >> Frell I. >> Good. Thank you. Okay. So, the next item on the agenda is to talk about any possibility state grant. And I think Mary Joe is doing some research to see
what might be out there. And did you come up with anything? Well, I did come up I did come up with a website that seems to be like a clearing house for any kind of um building or real estate grant that you might want to get. >> Okay. >> And definitely includes feasibility.
>> Okay. >> Um but it didn't it didn't say as as you suggested that it had to be multi-use although that may be in the details. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um, so what I what I did not know was um, Athl, do we say Athel or AHL?
>> Yeah. >> Um, had gotten a grant for something and um, so like it was news to me. I sent it to um Brandon. >> Oh, okay. >> And um, I I guess it used to be that you had to figure out what kind of grant you wanted.
>> Yeah. They've been this kind of onetop shopping. >> Yes. one place where you can go and and get information. >> Yeah. >> On that. >> Okay. >> So, um >> Yeah. So, I think >> you know I mean not necessarily for the
smaller what do we do with a library question but maybe for a larger like where are we going to go with all of this eventually. >> Um you know it that might be apply applicable a little bit. >> Okay. Um, Brennan, could do you recall
what the website was and maybe you could forward it to >> So, is that something we might um assign somebody to draft out one just just to see that give us a sense of wow the thing works? >> Yeah, if if you mean like um draft a
grant application if Yeah. I think I had mentioned at the last meeting that I had I had seen, you know, one feasibility um study that came through I think mass mass development um which is an economic
development agency and it had to be a mixed use. Um so you know for straight up um municipal use I when I looked I couldn't find anything but I'm happy to go back because it's things are always evolving
>> right and and I guess the question I would I would pose is what what is mixed use? Do you have to have someone living there or is it like >> so mixed use is typically either housing and and then residential or um some sort
of commercial and residential. So like an ATL might be you have storefronts on the first floor and then you have apartments upstairs and uh of course this building doesn't lend itself really to mixed use. It's single use is so small that um it really isn't you know
if you were going to add on to it and maybe but like a or very often the state will provide funding for um an economic development project where it's going to be job creation again um in a in a
building of this size trying to um argue that you're creating a lot of jobs and it falls under the economic development umbrella. It's a little it's a little >> bit of a stretch.
>> Yeah, there's always the attic. >> But in in all fairness, right, we've got we've got this library building. We've got Old Town Hall that nothing has happened with. And if if you know if you at some point were looking at a vision for a more vibrant
>> top of the hill place, >> Yeah. Certainly, you know, that might be something to consider. Yeah. >> Deck may able to argue that it's to sustain jobs because with uh the police department
still certification standards, the wouldn't meet them in our current space, you know. So, it would be to create jobs in a sense because we'd have our own space so that we'd be
able to hire the officers because ultimately without a police station you can't have police officers. So just like a thought on how we may be able to uh spend that for that particular funding option. >> Yeah.
The other interesting thing that I was I was thinking about is that um you know the town of Shbury may have some cottage industry um and if you wanted to if you wanted to use some space for small business
support and education maybe I mean I think the library probably could serve that purpose um if if there's enough interest and it's one of those things where really you know I don't know if you want to say build and they will come. Or if you want to say if you want
to say, oh, here's here's some people that are starting small businesses that they that could use some support, a place where they could meet. There are more and more people that are working um remotely, >> right? >> And so that might be another possibility. I mean, it's not outside the realm that mixed use could happen
here. The real question is, you know, how when, you know, all of that. >> Okay. Well, let me um why don't I volunteer to go back and I will take a look at the since I'm familiar with at least some of those they they tend to be
quasi public agencies that have those some state agencies but then some quasi publics that have those um feasibility um funds and I'll take a look at that and Brennan talk to you about that too.
>> Yeah. Yeah. sent a link, but I'll I'll take um uh I'll I'll take the lead on it. Um okay, great. And then um if we
I think what we talked about is our next Yeah, but the next meeting is March 19th. Um I know Okay, we'll get to that. Um, okay,
let's get to the chart of options. Um, so I thought this was really good and really kind of clearly laid out all of
our discussions. Um, and gonna open up the floor for comments. Um Susie and Paul worked on this. So the
three options that were we had discussed and are laid out here is that the spear becomes meeting space only. Um spear becomes a police station and um we
reorganize the town hall. Whoops. Sorry. And I just >> I think that will be station if a showing to get funding for
consideration. >> Yeah. So we want to I want to have the committee discuss it first and then I'll take comments after. Um so I just want to go through if this chart is clear to everybody.
Um there's anything else that we want to So we talked about having the the w water source, the septic, um
interior renovations, whether or not we needed an architect. um additional maintenance costs, um any additional utility costs, does it address multiple needs, is immediate action needed? and then approximate
cost. And then the footnotes kind of are down down below um regarding and and what this this is obviously a um a summation. There was a
whole lot more discussion kind of be behind all of these points which you know we can get into as we um you know if if there are questions but kind of our research around um
the well um the septic system possibilities potential uh research around the building code requirements um and um just other issues related to
utilities uh so forth. Uh just just one I guess uh I I don't see the uh little number indexes you know the reference numbers for 8 n and 10
was it not meant to be there anyway or >> they're under approximate cost Henry so on the on the chart if you go >> across >> um approximate cost is Um
>> maybe maybe it's further down. Further over. >> Yeah, maybe it's further over. Yeah. >> Oh, there it is. >> They are there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um the only sort of um formatting thing is I would say on the um for the
footnotes is just a parentheses around them where it says like yes to just to put like a little parenthesis. So >> or or a dash the names. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The formatting. Yeah. And I sent it to Brennan. You know, those were all
superscripts. >> Oh, okay. >> Made it clearer that reference. >> Oh. Oh, I see. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah. >> So, yeah, one way or the other, we sure that the final was clearer than that. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. >> Um, >> so actually, I did have one point. I think you know Devon just mentioned I mean another column that that might be very helpful once we've researched potential grant opportunities is yeah >> are grants available yes >> for these three different options
>> so >> yeah no that makes >> if so maybe you know we we probably won't know for sure but you know it might be worthwhile to have to >> I mean we could just replace that for notes right now because if we
>> know some of this ahead of time. Um, I could at least, you know, at least have prepared, you know, done some research before we meet on the 17th and then share it with you. Not to be
discussed, but and then incorporated if I find out something that >> yeah, >> looks promising. I'm sure that's going to be one of the first questions itself when we present to either the select board or the public. Yeah. Yes. Pay for it all or not. So, at least having a a
placeholder help. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Henry, did you have a comment? >> No. No. The table is great. >> Okay. I'm I'm actually curious about um about
are are there aspects of this that are essential within a certain time frame. So for example, things are changing with requirements for the police at what at what point in time would they potentially need absolutely need
different a different setup? Right. Um, so is there a firm deadline? >> Is there is there a deadline on any of this? I mean, one thing that seemed to me is that the the minimum stuff that we would need to do to make Spear a meeting space might have kind of a deadline in
the sense that it's not energy efficient and that it needs to continue to be used in some way, right? And that and there may be some as yeah there may be some aspects of that that wouldn't cost too much that you would want to do right away as opposed to things that are you
know so so some way to sort out in addition to how much is it going to cost when will we potentially need it? >> So it says immediate action but you're you're thinking >> oh yeah >> perhaps more >> something a little bit more specific >> okay
>> about why that would be needed. Um, >> so I don't think that goes in the table per se. It goes in a discussion. >> And so maybe Yeah. >> Um, >> so where number seven says >> right >> minimum
>> in the footnotes minimum level of activity required for insurance purposes. Um, the discussion would then also include timeline for police department changes necessary. But I think that one thing about something
like this is it starts to sort out the get some things out of your way. People say, "No, no, yep, no." And then you go ahead and do another round of information and thinking on something that's more specific. >> So, we could we could even potentially
have another footnote around the police station. like seven is minimum level of activity required for insurance purposes and then if there was a certification
issue for the police department um then then we might add that >> and that would apply to both uh you know option two and option three maybe we'd have like you know foot
>> you know for option two we could have footnote seven and another footnote and then same footnote for the next. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So we could re number, you know, could be a number eight and then we reumber the approximate cost footnotes >> or 7 A and 7B.
>> Yeah. >> Actually that might be better. Um okay so Devin um you c could you first address like deadline or you know what the >> talked about this before but that there
was a issue regarding certification that am I using the right terminology certification okay >> great at not deadline >> he might need to be here >> yeah it's harder for me to hear >> yep he's coming
The post commission is not uh very specific on any deadlines. Their deadline is more like yesterday. Um like these things should have already happened. Uh as far as certification
goes, uh the chiefs are still working uh with the post commission. and they're working to get a uh like a a committee of chiefs that can advise the post commission. Uh so that's in the works
because uh they are going to be doing audits of police departments which means you know they're going to be looking at facilities and different things and there's different uh
there's certain things we have to be compliant with. Uh and there's it's hard to be compliant in the amount of space. For instance, uh uh evidence evidence storage uh
our evidence storage is is not would not pass uh because and you're not supposed to store anything other than evidence in an evidence room. Uh but we have such little space that that's kind of
impossible for us. So that that's just one issue there. There is no >> I wish I could give you an exact date. Yeah. uh I don't have one. I think the I hope the post commission would give some
grace uh to smaller departments to kind of become in compliance. Uh I think that's I think we'll get a better idea of that when they start auditing small departments and figure out what they want because they they want certification but they
haven't said all right these are the certification standards. There's EMPAC, which is the uh municipal police accreditation uh commission, and they for accreditation, you have to meet I think it's like over 300 different
standards. For certification, you have to meet like 178. So, they're not and we don't know if they're using EMPAC standards or not. So, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. And uh you know, I have my ear to the ground on this. Uh, you know, I'm speaking with uh
Chief Purk from Deerfield because he's the president of the Franklin County Chiefs Association, so he's up to date on everything. Uh, you know, and it's very hard it's very hard to say definitively, but what I can say
definitively is in the space we have now, it's impossible to to meet the compliance requirements. Okay. So maybe there's a footnote to say some change
um will be necessary for space needs in the police department. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Right. At least it takes a do nothing option off the table. >> Right. Right. >> Right. >> So that would be part of 70B
C. may be an elemental. >> Okay. >> If I can say one word. >> Yeah. Oh, sure. >> I feel like, you know, with the with the police department too, uh, if we were to get the old library, I think there would
be an opportunity for a lot of fundraising efforts. Uh and you know the potential to have you know contractor if if it went under renovation to have contractors do the majority of the work
and I know a lot of very come from a construction family and do some of the finish work uh to save money uh fund raise for different things. So, I think there's a lot of different options for that. Not structural stuff, obviously, because you need to remain compliant
with the law. Uh, but you we you could save thousands of dollars. Uh, for instance, putting in a floor yourself. I've put in many floors. You're going to pay someone $3,000 like most likely to put a floor in. Um, so there there is
there's options to uh kind of take some of the the uh the the strain off of off of the project total. Uh there's also the possibility
of having uh having something earmarked for renovations for that which I've uh you know I'm in communication with Chief Murk about uh so that that's a possibility as well. >> Where would those ear marks be applied?
What earmarks? >> Uh from the legislature. >> From the legislature. Yeah. Uh so that that's a possibility. It's not a guarantee but a possibility. So, if if I can, while Devon's here, I have another question that came up a
couple meetings ago. I I I don't think you're at, but um >> when Stephen Dol was uh talking to the building inspector, the issue or the question came up about possible differences between having a formal
police station versus police officers. like you you probably have offices here even though it's a semantics thing but from the state building clo code uh standpoint there may be a really important distinction. So certain
requirements apply to a station versus a office. Are you familiar with those at all or >> Yeah, I've done some find out about them. >> I've done some research on it. Uh really they're just two different ways to say the same thing. Um,
with with a station, the only addition we would have in a bigger space is a an area to book people. Uh, meaning, you know, process someone who's been arrested. >> Uh, which you don't need a lot of room
for, but you do need a room for, you know, >> the we don't need uh cells because we have under 5,000 residents. So that's that's a benefit because cells are a lot of money because you need I won't get
into you know all of it but it would be tens of thousands of dollars. So uh that's why we wouldn't need jail cells and that that's ideal for us as far as I I don't believe there is a difference uh
between an office and a station. Perhaps I can look into if the difference could be having jail cells and not having jail cells. Uh >> well, the the distinction that that we're only dealing with is just from the
building inspector. So that's where that's where you need to go to have that discussion because it's only him looking at building codes, not him looking at um sort of department designs or something like that. Yeah, I I can uh discuss it
with with him and see. I mean, are there se I are there separate building codes for right does a state building code differentiate between you know a station versus just offices and you know have different requirements for each. >> Yeah, I will look the code in the
building codes. >> So that's Jim Hawkins up at the Jim Hawkins building inspector for fun. Thank you for doing that. Absolutely. >> So, we ready to get back to this because I guess um there's a lot of it looks
simple but there's a lot of information that some of it you know Susie and I said yeah I think that's a moderate you know >> so I just want to make sure that the rest of the committee members have >> you know taken enough time maybe not right now but you know before maybe in
the interim be before our next meeting to you know really go through and say oh yeah I agree with that or no, I don't agree with that that rating essentially. >> I mean that now >> I did go through it. Yeah. And we why don't we just do it now? We want to finalize chart. So
>> um >> and I I did take take a look at it. So you want to just go by um by section. So water source needed. Spear is the meeting space only. No.
Spear becomes a police station. Yes. And reorganization of town hall. No. >> Correct. >> And the same with septic. >> And and just one second. And the first footnote gets on that one. Um in that first column, >> right?
>> The footnote says new on-site well or tie into town hall well. Yes. >> And that seems still accurate. I did check if there's any record the records in that envelope folder begin in 85. our board of health record. >> Yeah,
>> the board of health record. So there's no board of health record. And it reminds me that in fact bureaucracy has grown over time. So so what was considered the right process kept getting amended. So um so we're dealing with old things in a new world and
that's one of them. >> Okay. So the well is older than 85. Yeah. >> Okay. So, we determined, yes, that we would need either a new well or tap into the one over here. And um and I believe the
um it wasn't that complex to run water underneath the road. The septic was a different >> and the one question would would we need to know what the capacity of this well is? But we also agree that more the uses that were here would just go over there.
It's not going to change the amount of use. Right. >> Okay. Um so the next section is the um septic connection. Uh
so and where it becomes a meeting space only. Again, we're we're making the determination if it's a meeting space only, we're not putting we're not going to put in a bathroom and we're not going to have water. It would just be for
meetings, like two-hour meetings periodically. Um if it became the police station um then yes it would need a septic connection and we
um contemplate connecting to the existing septic system at the church. Yeah. Um I believe we also um talked about whether or not there was
going to we would need to have a new septic system. We would have to analyze this septic system, right? >> Yeah. the soil, the size, the tank, um pumping it, and and if the if I think
that the committee basically pursued the church because that's the simplest, cheapest, and we're not trying to put up all the options in the world. Um so that's why it didn't get on there, right? >> And and Ellen Weiss wanted a whole survey of the area in order to think about where a tight tank can go. So,
right, we just didn't go there. So I think I think that that might be a following a next step if it was determined that the the church septic system wasn't adequate. Right? If we
if we figured that out then we would have to say okay what is a new septic system? What is a tight tank? And that was where Allan was going right with like how big it would have to be where it would be located where it would be located soil be like but wh why you are
you saying that after we tied into the >> No no no I'm just saying after our after our research you know if we if if during the course of let's say we have engaged Allen and he's analyzing the existing system and he says you can't the church
system is just not going to be It's it's it's inadequate now. It has to be rebuilt. I have no idea when that >> Yeah. I don't know that he had a way of assessing that. >> It is being used. >> It's It hasn't had a problem and so we
were not thinking of an expert opinion to figure out going forward that way. >> Code code might send us in that. >> Yeah. I I think we would have to I mean it'd be kind of like a title five inspection when you're going to, you know, sell your home. That kind of inspection. doing a substantial
>> needs to be pumped. We know that. So, you know, there would be an inspection at that time. >> Yeah. >> But but we do know that I mean it's not >> I mean it's seems to be in good shape and it's big enough. Yeah. It see we know that those two pieces of information. So >> So I and that might be fine. I'm just
leaving open the possibility if if >> Yeah. So the question do we want to incorporate any of that those caveats into the table here or not? >> I think we could discuss it if it comes up. I I think we could leave it as as is for now. Ev, did you have a permit?
>> Uh yeah, if I think it'd be easier if for some reason it wasn't uh it wasn't sufficient, it'd probably be easier to upgrade their system than to add another because you also need a leech field, >> right? >> Um but I also wanted to ask is this is
my fault because I I've been here for a while. I I was under the impression that even if the the library became a meeting space, it was determined that it was going to need a bathroom no matter what.
So, I'm just I'm just curious. >> Yeah, I think we we tal we I think we talked about it, but the extent is such that we wouldn't that we would want to >> an option without a bathroom is one of the options we to put towel. Yeah.
Um okay. And then with reorganization of the town hall, there's again no we have an existing um septic system here. Um interior renovations. Uh the sphere becomes a meeting space
only. Um moderate amount uh replace the furnace, new technology and potentially partition walls. uh if Spear became a police station, substantial
um interior renovations to be determined. And as Paul was um as we were talking with Devon about whether or not it's police offices versus a police station, whether or not
it needs to be fully brought up to the existing building code and uh and what that would what that would entail in terms of uh a whole lot of things. uh insulation,
heating, cooling, all of the all of the above. Um and then interior improvements >> and with the reorganization of town hall to move the police station down here
downstairs. Um that again is uh substantial and we've had some we we did some tentative um uh drawings of of how it could be
configured. But it would mean um building some walls, maybe taking some walls down um could be uh would be an a significant expense.
Um next section is whether or not we would need an architect. Uh again for the spear meeting space only, no. um were it to become a police station
uh probably and the same for reorganization of uh town hall that we would need um designs. >> Well, as you can see, I was as indecisive as possible on those >> probably in parenthesy.
>> Yes. Yeah. you know, um, again, it's going to be up to what the building inspector would require and usually they require some sort of stamped plans. And so, even if you get like, you know, my husband will do draw plans
for habitat, but an architect has to stamp them. So um you know that's >> and I think we also have to orient the um public to the idea that municipalities undertaking building
projects have certain legal obligations that you can't just toss away. And our um the other one is um union I don't what is that >> prevailing wage >> prevailing wage um workers. So we we can't let people sort of
>> public construction requirements. Yeah. And and those those typically come with um the the bidding requirements are uh staged in by amounts the amounts of money and and that's been changing over
time. So I don't know where that that stands but any sort of public instruction. Yes. And that might be a u either a footnote or some kind of caveat because I you know I've run into this a lot in talking to the general public.
People get into this sort of uh rebellious attitude. We don't need blah blah blah. It's like we're talking about municipal endeavors. >> Yeah. What what I can do is I can share with you um the there's a there's a pretty good
chart that lays lays all of that out. So, let me just locate it and and it um so it's the inspector general's office that oversees all procurement and um I think there's one for public construction. So, I'll get the most
updated since. So I can see that as being another page of separate just like our our tentative floor plan for down here. So there's this table that sort of orients people and then there's some documents that support looking at it. >> Okay. So I'll send the public
construction spreadsheet. >> So we can can we just back up for a moment to So do I understand correctly that if basically if a building permit is needed which means we have to submit plans and they have to be stamped by an
architect. >> I I assume that's the case but I don't know for sure. Again I don't know what our I don't know what our building inspector requires, right? Because like if you were doing a renovation on your house and you needed a building permit,
you wouldn't need an architect, right? Yeah. But we're we're doing a public building and um and so could be that it has to be stamped. >> Do you want me to talk to Jim Hogets about those specific pieces? >> Um sure.
>> Okay. He will have talked to everyone on the committee. Hello. I'm from that pain in the back committee. >> Should we remove the parentheses on that column at this point? >> Yeah. Okay.
Um the next uh section is will there be any additional maintenance costs? So um meeting space only minor uh because it would be used on a more sporadic basis.
uh becomes a police station, moderate um obviously needs to be um taken care of and and cleaned and kept up. And then reorganization of town hall, I'm not sure if I'd say I I might
say minor, so it might be a little bit different. Um if this was an office that was being used on a regular basis, >> different stairs. >> Yeah. Do they do you is your office being done a regular basis now?
>> Uh typically by us, but Chris does clean it. >> The caveat is because uh it's a secure area, >> one of us has to be there. >> So occasionally, you know, we'll have it
back. So, but we mainly do it ourselves. >> Okay. So, maybe it is now changed. Yeah. Okay. All right. You do it. Yeah. All right. >> With that being said, there is the the option to do a
you can and I could add Chris as like a >> special >> like a special, >> you know, position and I can get him authorized to be in the space. Uh so there is that possibility too. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's we'll leave
this for now that there's no no change and um can talk about that. Um okay. So um utility costs um meeting space only. Um
moderate um spear becomes the police station higher because it would be used regularly and then within um having a police station within the town hall no change. So, I wonder if the word additional does
not need to be the heading in those headings because >> um >> it's not additional to it's additional to zero >> and right now it's in zero but it's not additional. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Into the
>> imperative Henry you agree? >> I guess so. I mean yeah I mean >> what do you think Paul? I think a little redundant but >> yeah the only thing is u you know I I think we're trying to show you know what
you know additional expenses you know we might have going different routes and so just saying that you know utility costs are moderate doesn't really give you a comparison to where we are now you know so
>> so I mean ultimately it's all going to be well how much is it going to cost you know how that one and >> but I would actually say then it's going to be less if it's just used as a meeting space compared to the library. >> Yeah. Well, I did question whether
>> right it is >> reason I think if you leave off the word additional um there's just moderate utility costs there higher if it's a police station and no change if it's so that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, I I
think that's I I think that makes sense rather than saying additional because we we are we were already paying for although I'm sure the heat isn't on in there now but it was on when it was
being used as the library and the too Joe you I agree agree. So I u I do wonder about that the third reorganization and town hall no change and I guess in my mind that the question would be does this room
>> that's true >> get turned down when it's not being used on a right >> it does be more consistent and the way we talked about moving the offices around there's no freed up space so this one would be on more >> so maybe
um moderate Yeah, moderate because it's not um it's not nothing that double negative. >> So if we're changing getting rid of the
word additional, should we the number two just be high instead of higher or because higher is you know conoting a comparison. Yeah. Yeah. >> Or increased to
high as a comparative word itself high. It's >> me personally I I I like the comparison aspect of it. So, you know, and I would if anything change a moderates to moderately higher, >> you know, because that's really
>> okay. So, why not say moderately higher? >> We don't think that's true from what they are right now, right? What the costs are >> are and is that zero or the library? I was assuming it was the library when the library.
>> So in that case, it's not likely to be higher at all. No, could be it'll be lower because the library was used every day at some time. I don't think that's how the meeting schedule is going to fall. >> Okay. >> Maybe moderately lower. >> Yeah.
>> Why not? >> Moderately lower. Higher. Moderately higher. Right. I can get my head around that. That good? And we're going to just say utility cost, not additional utility. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, next section is um addresses multiple needs. Spear becomes meeting space only. >> That is not a that is a multiple need.
We don't have meeting space in this building. Um and if we end up with a hybrid facility then there can be two hybrid meetings in town. So um it could be a little instead of no
I mean before we had co this building was they were having meetings in the kitchen because there's not enough meeting space. I don't know if we'll ever be back to that people meet in person, but because we have a chance for two hybrid systems, we could have
additional meeting space and we didn't have that before. >> And people may may have other ways of using the space that uh we we can't predict. What what about um limited just as a general
I mean >> is multiple age limited >> I guess I mean >> no >> or possible maybe possible because we don't really know who's going to use it for what at this point >> we haven't said meetings mean only town
board meetings >> that's correct >> we're leaving that open >> so if Somebody else wants to use it. Sacred bent. Yeah. Something I think I think possible is good. Yeah. >> And then spear becomes police station.
Yes. Reorganization town hall. Yes. Okay. Immediate action needed. Here's where we go into our um footnotes, our detailed footnotes. So um we say yes sun becomes meeting space
only. You know, we do need to have minimum level of activity for insurance purposes. Flannel or seven. And then um for spear becomes the police station, we
have 7A. We have the certification requirements >> in addition to just regular seven, >> right? >> Yes. In addition to regular seven. So
it's seven 7 A. You have a 7B too. >> Rewind the tape. It was this meeting the certification requirements is what I'm looking at my notes. >> It's I I think it would be a little tricky because the immediate action you're talking about could could apply
to both two and three. >> Right. >> Yes. Yes. Right. So I guess we have that I guess we have it for three too. And then we have we have
the issue around the certification. >> The other thing is that the immediacy of option seven is different than the immediacy of 7A. >> So the word immediate um
Well, I think what you said was we need to we need to keep using the building for for insurance purposes. So, we have seven for everybody, >> right? And then we have 7A is sort of
the next the next level where where it's around the certification. So maybe in the 78 under certification it say should say future certification that's a little different than the word immediate. It helps frame
it. >> Mhm. >> That other T. We know for sure that the uh certification will come into play. Is that correct? Or was that something that was going to be in looked into? >> Well, it's evolving with the post
commission. So, um >> you know, yes, they're looking to do the certification. It's a I think the the issue has been, and correct me if I'm wrong, um De has been what they're going to require of really small departments.
So there's some, you know, basic basic things and this audit is going to be done and how far they're going to make small towns though that are under 2500 population is is to be determined, but I
think there's some basic standards that going to need to be set. >> Yeah, that's that's fair. And I, you know, the for for reference, the the post commission really did a lot of harm to small small town departments when they
got rid of the part-time police academy. Uh, and to and I think if we look at that as u an example of kind of the chaos uh that ensued because of that, it was you've no you have three years to
get certified full-time. Uh it it required a lot more expense uh for the town because now we had to send people through additional training that was unforeseen. Um and they rolled that out with like okay you got three years to
comply based off of first letter of your last name. Um and it did a lot of damage. So they kind of sprung that on everyone. And I'm I have a feeling that uh their their standards for
uh buildings and stuff is going to be sprung and they're going to say, "Well, you have, you know, this amount of time to be compliant." Uh >> and normally it's not a lot of time. So, I think the the more we can do to try to
get there uh get closer to there uh before they lay all of this this out is is going to be uh beneficial. So could we say immediate action needed
on both um the police station and the reorg and then say the immediate action is is because of wanting our police department to be in compliance. It has to be an either two or three. >> Is that yes I think where we're at.
>> Put that yes. >> So 7A would be a footnote that would say >> um future >> compl uh certification. >> Yeah. I guess it mean one or the other. State one or the other or both. >> I also don't like the word immediate and
I'm wondering if we can change that to something else >> um like near-term >> action needed some actioned. >> Yeah, immediate sounds foreseeable. >> Maybe
>> yes near action needed. This maybe just action >> tomorrow. Action needed. Um >> well, if it says action needed, that helps people not vote for no. No, no. Um so if it just says action needed, then
yes, number seven. Yes. Seven and 7 A >> and reorganization town hall is no. >> Um but is 7A applicable to the reorganization? >> Yes. Yes. >> So it would be no action. Well, that if
we >> see I thought we would change that to >> Okay, we'll just Yes, that'll be easier. >> Yes. And then seven and not seven, just 7A on that one. >> Yes. >> Right. And do we want to use 7A or do we want to just reorder the footnotes so
that you know it'll be seven and eight? Well, I think minimum level of activity and that's what we're talking about activity or action required for insurance purposes. I think 7A is an appropriate 7A. >> Yeah. Amen. >> Amendment.
>> All right. So, we'll just get rid of the word immediate. >> Yeah. Action. >> Action needed >> and yes. Yes. Yes. >> Seven seven and 7 A. And just 7 A. >> Good. And all three down, right? >> Yep.
>> Okay. wrinkles on my ice cream cone. >> 7A footnote will be >> the 7A footnote is future state certification by post commission. >> Yeah. So, so if 7A is going under seven, then you should mention compliance in in
seven as a whole, not just the insurance. You know what I mean? >> There's seven and then below seven would be 7A. >> Okay. So 7A isn't like a part of seven. No, it's a >> separate. Is that listed? Okay. Like seven and 78.
>> Okay. >> You know, there's really quick too, there's the possibility that they could uh kind of reel back the terminology of certification and
uh when they do their audits, we would just have to meet certain standards. So I just want to keep it open to interpretation because I don't know what they are going to do. I just know that they are going to do something because the audit the audits are inevitable from
what I'm being told. So why don't just put standards state certification standards by post >> and I think that the audit is not only I mean the term audit for all of us that have ever had one scary but it's also
information gathering and this and this is the basis that if the if there has to be legislative push back it can say in these in this research you did in your audits this is what we see and you know all towns are not the same Right.
>> Yep. >> Okay. So again, uh footnote 7A is going to be something like future state certification standards by >> state certification I think slashstandards or we could say and or standards.
>> Say standards >> uh by post commission. by post commission. Okay. Yeah. P >> like capital P O S T. Capital P O S T. Um >> do you want to say and or do you want to do slash? It's just slash.
>> Shorter the better. >> Um okay. Um so the next section is approximate cost. And this is one where we really are um kind of shooting in the dark a little bit. But we know that the
spear becoming meeting space only is the our lowest cost. Um but again we'd have to probably do we put the furnace need to uh get technology in there possibly
some partition walls and furniture. Um if Spear becomes a police station, um significant costs and uh also and you're talking probably
in the neighborhood of over $100,000 and again reorganization of the town hall. Um I was surprised that I I don't think I was at that meeting when Stephen said that would be over $100,000 too. He
talked to uh Anna Anna Cook, right? Anna. Yeah. >> Sorry. He talked to who? >> Anna Cook on the building. >> Oh, Anna. As a building, you don't want to walk in blind. So, she said, >> "Don't walk in blind. Here's the number to think about." >> Okay. >> But it it was still,
>> you know, kind of >> Yeah. a little bit. So, I I was a little nervous putting those figures in there. >> You see a hard figure, >> it can be scary. >> Yeah. What what did you what were you going to say, Henry?
>> Well, no, no, I just uh I can't remember what the number was that he mentioned, but it was up there and and I I vaguely remember it was something like 80 80,000 plus or something. >> Yeah. >> Well, there's also um once that can of
worm got opened, it would be the abatement for asbestous, >> right? >> Lead paint. that yeah there is under consideration and and the ways people approach that are pretty different and so um >> that was to be decided but she didn't
want everybody to you know think it was nothing so she she ballparked it >> and I would rather have a figure in there Paul um even if it's if it's on the high side because I I you know thinking about like when are we
going to do this how are we going to come up with the money Right. >> And stuff always ends up costing more than you think it's going to cost. So >> So the 100,000 while >> you know I think about this space and I think $100,000.
>> Yeah. It just starts to add up all the the stuff is really expensive >> and that's the the 100,000 figure was for this space. Yeah. I mean we never really got an estimate for that for the library itself. had is, you know, really
just pulling that out of >> although that one included the bathroom to begin with and that the sense of the bathroom got pretty cleared out. >> The bathroom is of itself, >> right? >> The the basement needs to be done to
completion in in the library. >> Why is that? Uh, I thought that was the idea that uh when we looked at it anyway. >> Oh, that the basement that you needed to redo the basement in the library
>> at least insulation, keep mice out, the whole bit. >> Yeah, I think securing Yeah. Yeah. Insulating and getting that basement. Um, >> yes. >> So, one other comment about this this column. Uh, footnote 8 is basically the
same as footnote three. U, should I just put three there instead of the eight or do we want to just do, you know, repeat it down below? >> I think repeat it. >> Okay. Got to say if we made that three then we could make
actually we would have to change. >> Have 11. >> Yeah. out of order though. >> I like it doing eight and then it just follows down, >> right? >> Uh so I'm thinking about like this is something that gets presented to people
for the first time. >> Yeah. >> And I do think you need to walk people through a table. Yeah. Step by step >> and then start taking questions and other possible suggestions. But really people
have to look at it one step at a time. >> Yeah. >> Kind of like we just >> Yeah. >> Um and and understanding again. So I think we have the backup material and I'm not sure if um I'm trying to think if there's anything else beyond the
floor plan public construction figures. Um if if there's anything else that we want any other summary that we want to provide um with this maybe we'll consider the
select board the beta testers and then figure out what more people can need to know or will be helpful for them to know. >> Okay. So we'll just we'll look at this as a preliminary
report and we will do a more final report but this is kind of an in interim this is where right this is where our research has gotten us to and u so Devon did you get this ahead of this meeting >> I did not okay and that's a piece of
communication we need to keep being aware of because we're bringing people along in their in the discussion I mean you can always watch the TV, but um I do want people to have these. >> Yeah. So, >> uh I may be able to get us a uh better
approximate cost through like with a quote, like not necessarily a quote, but with industry uh averages right now for asbestous abatement and all of that. Uh, I have a network of like commercial contractors
that hospital work and police stations and everything else. So, I may be able to get us a better ballpark number. It's hard to approximate a cost without knowing exactly what the plan is like >> but like a better ballpark number uh
that is a little bit more accurate. Uh if we had to do as fast as a payment that would cost this amount for this >> just talk about option three. >> Yeah. Well, you know, >> well this space or the library, either
one or both. And my my impression from our last meetings is that the distinction between whether or not the police space is a station or an office is really important to the cost. >> Yeah. And so like getting really clear
about okay so if we well first of all is it worth doing if we don't have booking space and evidence storage if we have those two things must it be a station is is a question that I think is really in terms of the in terms of the final numbers >> right
>> um if you could call it if you if you did something that you could call an office the the cost would potentially be significantly lower >> the impression that we had. Am I right? >> Well, it I don't know what the building code says. I just emailed uh
>> Mr. Hawkins, so I'll have a conversation with him to try to get a better idea of what what that is. I mean, if we can navigate around uh the building code to make it an office and it's substantially
cheaper, that would be ideal. Uh a booking space would also be ideal because we kind of So hopefully that's not one of the things that makes it a police station because the the issue is is we essentially put
uh we're using other agencies uh like leverage pelum or orange to do booking when we should be able to do it in our own facility. Uh so it puts a burden on those other agencies. If they
have someone arrested when we do, we're basically asking a favor, you know, um every time we have to arrest someone. So that's that's kind of part of it too. And and booking is fairly simple. Uh in the sense of and it's and you don't need a lot of room,
>> but there are certain >> options two and three. counting on booking space. Yeah. >> And I think that the um >> the term station could be weighed against the word officer department >> and um that's the one you're going to
sort out with him. >> Okay. >> Um but in both cases, we were planning on having a booking space. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And then we have a new last column. >> And I just grant options. if you have anything.
>> So what I will do that will be another addition. Um so if we have you know if I've done some research and looked at some grant options that I would summarize >> um
>> we'll just leave that blank for now. Yeah. And you can just address it in person at this. Yeah. >> Or if there's anything to write up I'll write it up. um a description otherwise I'll say
there's nothing okay whatever um okay so again I just want to go through we would have this chart floor plan I'll have the public construction spreadsheet anything else we want to um
we want I'm trying to think of anything else we used in this meeting. Can't think of any um survey results because No. Okay. It's gonna I mean it
should be addressed that kind of what we did the the process we went through the history. >> Yeah. Um And I don't, you know, I think we talked about um doing this as a be of a
presentation and then we have it open for public discussion. Um >> those are two different dates, you're saying? >> Well, no. I probably could do it on the same >> on the 17 the 17th, but I have to check with Bren. Did I talk to you about
having a block of time on the 17th? >> 45 minutes. Yeah. podcast. >> I mean, every meeting's public, but is that going to suffice? Is that how we want to do public processing of this? >> Um,
>> I'd prefer to do it that way only because sort of so having a separate >> um and and I'd like to have it tied to our research. >> Yeah. You know, not having to like uh do it do it twice. you know, we have
another public session after that. We'll take public comments. Um, >> but my my biggest concern honestly is that >> people are going to come and say, "Let's have a general store." You know, at our little um session of
the clicker session on Saturday, you know, the both the kids, you know, said, "Yeah, >> oh, have a general store." Well, you know, the realities of having a general store are such that it would never, you know, we have a
co-op that can barely uh make it financially. Uh so, and then, you know, it it could be, you know, we could have made the decision and we still could make the decision that we dispose of the property. So, you
go through a public disposition and you can sell the property or you can do a long-term lease and somebody can take it over and then they're responsible for um you know for rehabbing it and maintenance and whatever else. Uh,
I don't know that uh that that's al you know that that's financially feasible, but I don't know maybe there's somebody you know in town who thinks that that will be um a really fabulous space and it could be that it
gets onto the tax roles if if the town wanted to to do that. It would be very tricky because the the library is on the town common, right? >> And so you can't sell the you can't sell the common. So you probably have to do a
long-term lease. And then for anybody trying to get financing, the length of a lease determines whether or not you can get financing or you want to put all the money. So the the economics for anybody
to make this into a commercial enterprise are really daunting in my opinion having done sort of similar type work in the past. >> PCR would probably support you in that trying
>> exactly the Bennett >> deal with their the Bennett property >> beautiful lakefront property they can take. >> Right. So maybe from our we should include our charge but maybe this charge we can edit this to show
our process. So the charge is you know starts off saying uh the goal is to preserve this building and explore constructive reuse by researching feasibility of alternative uses for the building thereby supporting future town
investment to implement preservation. I mean, so we, you know, maybe um God, maybe I should take this charge and just um put in a few things that we did. We
did we surveyed the space needs of all the departments and research the cost options. And here's the chart. >> Yeah. I mean it just but if we start from the charge the t take the charge and add the tasks sort of what what done
>> I think that would be good to kind of start out um >> we did a little bit of that you know with the if then uh summary that you know a pre earlier version of this yeah >> chart uh so there might be some information right in that too that you
could take from right >> so I I think we could um uh we could add that Susie without have to edit it. I send it along Brennon. Okay. >> Um
and so and speaking of editing, uh Brennan, do you want me to make these changes in the chart or >> are you going to do that? >> Probably better if you guys >> Okay, I'll I'll do that.
>> That's because there's so many Yeah. And if I, you know, obviously there was some something that happened in sending it to you that the formatting changed for the footnotes. Can will you be able to to change that? Uh, >> yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. So, I'll send this to you in the next day or two. I mean, it's >> what, a week from >> tomorrow? >> Tomorrow. Yeah. >> Oh, I know. concern.
Um, so I think 45 minutes for a 15minute presentation and then questions. Um, >> do you think you'd do a town announce so that it becomes more public awareness? >> Yeah. >> That this meeting? >> Y
>> yeah. >> And Brennan, so I assume the agenda is being put together now. Do you know sort of do we have any other big stuff on that agenda? anything with the finance committee.
We're not yet >> and we're not we're not >> and we're not doing the the warrant is later too. So, this is probably a good time because we're kind of squeezing squeezing in between before we start
getting into the major town meeting stuff. Um, >> okay. All right. Okay. Good. So, yeah. So, I think we we allow 45 minutes and then um if we could space
it on the agenda that um try to do at the beginning of the um if there's a couple of things that come up that we just have to do first but so that people coming to the meeting will
>> Yeah. I don't think much about the agenda because I knew this was going to pop. So yeah, wanted to make sure >> I probably have a fin bomb that night. I think that's the cat planning night. So I >> So we are five. Yeah. So we meet at 5
and um and then we could I said, you know, we do the public comment, we do the minutes, and then we could do this first thing provided there's no other no other emergency. >> And so when the town announced, can you attach documents? I forgot. I think
something can't remember but that would be good to get the public information she could put on the website. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Posted. >> Uh >> you want people to come in with some orientation. Not that they read it, but
>> there's a chance that it would. >> So would that be your modified um write up or >> and the chart? >> Oh, and the chart. I think that I think that this is the packet of information that's going to be discussed at the meeting. It should be available to people electronically before the
meeting. >> See, I I'm I'm debating about whether or not we want to put the chart. I think if we put the charge and the sort of what you're doing and what we've done and then go over this
I don't I don't know the chart might be >> what what's your reservation? I don't know like people getting too much into the weeds and before the meeting and then you know I was just getting totally totally off. Why did you give that a,
you know, why did you say moderate? >> It orients people to what the discussion will be because they're coming from nowhere, >> right? >> And I I think if even if they have a misinterpretation of the chart, we're going to march through the chart at the
meeting. >> Yeah. Okay. >> It kind of sets the parameter of what we're talking about to have that is putting the chart >> in what you're writing up. Would would you make reference to, you know, questions. We'll be discussing the various implications of the three.
>> Okay. They have idea. >> Then for those that might be a little bit more nitpicky about moderate substantial um would there be a place where they could go to see actual numbers? I mean I know we had some of that earlier on the
minutes. I mean really this is the piece I drives me crazy. We've been working for how long >> right now it's supposed to be a sum. This is a summary, right? >> You can't answer every question. People need to use the minutes for part of the process. >> We go we reference back to the the the
minutes and then um and you know, we can have a second public session too. You know, this is like the initial thing I come back to the select board and back to the public. So, I just want to get this out there um
and show people what we've done so far and um answer more questions. >> Let's see. >> Do the other select board members have any inkling of what? >> Well, I Yes. Yeah. I I've talked about it at a couple of meetings just given an
update of kind of what we have been talking about. So they broaden our original scope for example and I was evaluating this space as well as that. >> Uh >> did we uh just uh it occurred to me did
did we discuss the possibility of getting a a grant through the Massachusetts Historical Commission? >> I don't know. >> I don't think Yeah, I don't think we did. Henry >> Yeah, I think I think maybe I thought
Steve Delmas may have mentioned it, but we we >> show So, are you I'm not familiar with what they >> Yeah, I just I just checked on it. It's We don't qualify. >> We have to be Well, we have to be on the
state register of historic places. >> Oh, okay. >> And I presume that means it has to be a historic district, but >> Oh, >> I could find out. Yeah, that's probably why Leopard did that. They have that all those historic districts now and they've
they've gotten a lot of money to do like the mill and North Le and the deadline is is is in March. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, um
presentation for the 17th would like to um present Paul that night or is that other night? >> That on the 17th I probably have the
final at at 6:30. at 6:30. >> So this could be divided to could be two people. One person could talk about sort of approach what our what our charge was and what what the tasks and then go
through the chart. >> Okay. All right. I'll do you first. Y right. Well assuming you know >> Henry and you go. Mary Joe, are you good with that? Susie will provide the overview and Paul will do the chart.
Go for it. >> That sounds good to me. Um, okay, great. And I will work with Brennan to get a town announced. And we don't have any kind of web page,
but just on that homepage, >> homepage, we could put up the documents. And since it's going to be a select board meeting, um, well, however you do that, you can just put it on the homepage or you could reference it to the select page.
>> Yeah, we do share documents select, but not the it's within a Google Docs, you know, but it's not a public document. So, we don't post stuff that we're going to be using ahead of time.
>> You can check in the news. We'll do it under news and updates. We'll reference that. So Susie, if you could um So today is >> what is today? >> Well, today Monday. >> So by the end of the day, tomorrow you
could get the Is that possible? So Bren, I get it up on Wednesday. >> Um >> I'll do it today. I don't have tomorrow. >> Okay. Um and then follow any the changes and get
those to Brennan. >> That'll be this evening. Yeah. >> Okay. Um so get those posted tomorrow, Brennan. >> Yeah. >> And you have the set of the plan the drawings for down here. >> Yeah. So we're going to include that. >> Yeah, we'll include that.
>> There was a recent a more the most recent ones. There was initial and then there was a recent more recent one. updated. Oh, is it this one and two? Oh,
one six. >> That must be it. >> Yeah, I think it's this one because the entrance is moreated and No. Oh, yeah.
Yes. So, the only thing on this one one is that the kitchen has been divided and the entrance is coming off of the hallway. This is the 12 eight. Um, but they're not labeled
and it's still called meeting room. Well, I mean, we probably won't spend a whole bunch of time on the specifics of this at the Blackboard meeting. Right. >> Right. It's just that when you're talking, you'd like to refer to something that's referred to that's labeled like police office rather than
meeting. >> Yeah. And this is part of the police office and this is the kitchen. >> That's kitchen. Yeah. >> Can we So, is that laid in correctly? >> No, it wasn't. I mean, this wasn't task of this wasn't the same task we're applying it to. I see. So, I mean, we
could just pencil it over. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Could you just tell and when I'll give it to Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Meeting starts at 5 that we >> meeting starts at 5. >> So,
uh so date again. Sorry, I missed the date. Uh >> 17th >> 17th at five. >> At five. >> Okay. Can you be there, Mary Joe? Great. It was It was on my calendar already. >> Okay, great.
>> And Henry, you can make it on the 17th. >> I can. >> Great. Maybe Stephen will be back, too. >> I think we might plan on not coming. >> Um, okay. of
any unanticipated business and then we will so we'd be scheduled to meet on the 19th. I am not I'm out of town on the 19th but I could um till the next
>> I'm back the next I believe. >> Yeah. Um yeah, how about the 26? >> 26. That works for me. That work for everybody else. >> What? What time? >> Next have our next at 10:30.
>> 10:30. 26. Yep. >> Yeah. March 26. >> Yep. >> Might have feedback by then. >> Thinking about. >> Okay. Um, thank you all. very productive meeting and thank you Susie and Paul for
um your work on uh on getting the the chart together. >> I might run I might send it to you just so you can eyeball it. >> Um so do I hear a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. Second. >> Okay. All those in favor signify by saying I. >> Johnson I.
>> Lions I. >> Okay. Thank you. paraly. >> Thanks everybody. >> Byebye. >> Did you leave a pair of sunglasses at my house by any chance? They're like black sunglasses.
>> Maybe maybe they're Rudy's. I thought maybe. And are you going to take Roxy to her when the first couple of days that Ruth has said something? When are we talking? >> Uh, next week. >> Oh, next week. >> Yeah.
>> Oh, I hadn't heard that, but you know, Paul and Ruth. >> Oh, all right. Okay. Yeah. So, Ruthie has done >> I think so. We're going to Minneapolis on >> it next week.
Yeah, we're going to Minneapolis on 18th, the day after. And I think John Moore is not getting back till like >> 20th.