I didn't hear um heard Mary Joe's back in circulation some. >> It's okay. >> And we have three. How many of us are there? Six. >> Hey, Stephen.
Is he unmuted? >> Good morning. Good morning. >> Good morning. Ah, Henry's here. Great. Thanks for coming, Henry. Worried about forum. Okay. Is everybody ready? >> Okay. Um, I'm Paul. Is it coming?
>> He's sick. Paul's sick, but I just left a message for him and said if he's feeling up, he could come to his home. Right. >> Yeah. >> That's why I'm on Zoom. see me there. >> Yes. Oh, you're sick, too? >> Well, I'm fighting something, so
>> So many people are sick. >> Be careful. >> Yay. Okay. Um, >> just breathe out. >> All right. So, I'm going to go ahead and call meeting of the MN spear, the MNSPER building committee to order. Today is
Thursday, January 6. This is a hybrid meeting. >> Ethan is the eth. Why did I Oh, the eighth. Yes, I had six down right now. Thank [laughter] you. I had it on another thing. >> Um, and today is Oh, Mary Joe, hi.
Welcome back. Oh, great. So, we have you doing okay? >> Yeah. Oh, good. >> Um, we have uh almost a full house. Um, and we have a um
an agenda that includes I'll just run through it quickly, reviewing um the meeting minutes from December 18th. Um Cat Hilton who um is the administrative person for the board of health and a board of health member is joining us this morning to talk about septic
systems. I'm going to give you an update on a conversation I had with a um senary engineer which some of the questions that were that arose we'll have for you um this morning and um and then follow
up with any discussions on septic systems installation and then next steps. So I do have a time limit. I have to be out of here at 20 minutes of 12 today. Um I have a doctor's appointment that I couldn't change. I guess early.
>> So, um I'll try to kind of keep things moving and I know Cat has time constraint, too. >> Excuse me. Somebody in my house at 11:30 latest. >> Okay. All right. Good. So, we'll try to try to be efficient with you. So, um why don't we start with the um the minutes?
Do I hear a motion to approve the minutes of December 18th, 2025? >> So, moved. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Second. Okay. All right. Um, all those in favor signify by saying I.
>> Was your eye. >> Thomas I. >> Barl. I >> and and Henry will give us the other eye. Thank you, Henry. Okay. Um, okay. So, just a quick recap because I know the two of you weren't here at our last
meeting. Um what we have uh moved to discussing was I I I think that the consensus is is that we're going to need a regardless of of use except if it's really really minor of the MN spear
building that we're going to need a bathroom in there >> and um >> the it's not it doesn't come without a lot of complications um both because of the well primarily because of the um the the site and the
limitations um both regarding water and and sewer. Um and then it's also obviously for us in making any kind of recommendations it has um a big bearing on what the cost of bringing this building. Um
>> that is unless it remains just a meeting room. >> Unless it just mean it remains a meeting room and and we can you know we can provide uh more than one alternative to how the you know coming the recommendations coming out of this committee could have more than one alternative where it's
full scale. You know we bring the building into full compliance. we have a bathroom or bathrooms. Um to at the other end of the spectrum is just saying we're leaving it as is and it
will be you know used for special occasions or just you know for some for some reason that doesn't call for having a bathroom in there. Um we haven't had a bathroom in the library. You know people except for the this the staff would have
to go across the street. Um, but you know, it's it's we've had it without a bathroom. So, Kat, when we have you join us up at the table because I think it's easier for people to The microphone is here. I just say as a select board, you know, we've gotten feedback from folks
about not hearing um well enough. So, I just ask and we on the board have to be attentive to that. is just, you know, project and and speak to um speak clearly um and not in a super quiet voice if you can. So, um
would it help, Kat, if I gave you a little bit more of a rundown? Do you have questions for us about what we're what we've been discussing? >> Uh yeah. No, maybe you better bring me up to speak. >> Okay. All right. So, so this committee was charged with um looking at potential
reuses for the for the building and um so we have been evaluating we did a survey of town departments and um boards and committees to say you know what do you need what you know is there
a way that you might use this building. Um the most uh vocal representation we heard was from the police department saying we'd like the [snorts] hemisphere building for a police department for a a variety of of
reasons. Um, in other cases, we heard from folks about storage, the need for more um, storage and also um, the potential for creating offices over
there. Um, what we did after we got the survey is we also began to think about this building because before we um, Right. You need a big plan. >> We need a bigger plan. Yes. So that was
our our kind of thinking. So um uh Stephen Delmas you know worked with uh um I think um Pat Wilson yeah to um to just look at you know existing what we have here and whether or not there was a
potential for example of creating a more a police department down here. you know that that was the thing that was that was clear that what we have currently is inadequate both um for privacy reasons and um for evidence storage that sort of
thing. Um so we you know we looked at a configuration uh a reconfiguration of this space. In a lot of ways it's it's ideal for offices because it's ground floor. You can do e relatively easy
handicapped accessibility. Um we have bathrooms already. um you know we have the infrastructure um here but obviously it would take some you know some some money to do some reconfiguration
>> and it would take away this big meeting room >> would take away this big meeting room we now have a new library and so as part of this we also talked to Maryanne to say what's the you know what's the approach about using that um that space and she said boards and committees will have um
priority the first priority priority is going to be library events. Second priority is town use um so meetings and that sort of thing. Um we also as we were talking about a potential reconfiguration we thought can we
um design it such that there's some adaptability so that if the let's say the police department was here and we had a hallway there and then we had a big room over there that it could be it could be opened up could be could have a divider so the council on aging
continues to have its um designated space select board doesn't I mean we need this and this and space for a few people, but we don't we don't need this whole room. So, we have other options. And when we have really big town meetings, you know, we we go to the
school. So, the library really takes a lot of pressure off of meeting this space, but we do have voting, too. And that's another thing that um I didn't specifically ask Maryanne about voting, but I imagine it could be done there.
>> Done in a big room. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so we have, you know, we have that and when Henry was sort of talking about, you know, alternatives, yeah, on the continuum, we can leave the building as it currently is, we could do some
adaptation and we could go wholesale into a what I'd consider um a substantial rehabilitation to make it suitable say for the police department because they they have needs
that um things that you know just ordinary space doesn't need terms of security and so forth. So, um, but we got to the point of starting to talk about the bathrooms because in in those other not the first alternative, but
either the second or third alternative where it's going to be used on a regular basis, um, we uh figure that we're going to need some sort of sanitary facility and that um what we've learned and Mary Joe did some
some research. Um, I think what we what we understand is that trying to do the composting toilet, continue with that. I mean, it didn't work. We have one in there now that hasn't functioning properly. Uh, it's just not realistic. Um, there's a whole range of issues,
including, you know, who maintains it and that sort of thing. So, um, we think realistically if we're going to do something that, um, we would need a bathroom there. Stephen spoke with um Jim Hawkins was a Franklin County or was
it Jim or somebody else in Jim's office at Franklin County? [clears throat] >> I spoke with Jim about um the basics, but then I spoke with the uh plumbing inspector. >> Oh, okay. >> And he was the one that um said that
there was a table that would determine what the requirements were. And I actually found a table, but this morning I could not find where I put it, but I can find it again. But it looks, you know, it's for so many people you have
to have this many bathrooms. And then for a larger number, so you know, another bathroom. As I looked at it, and I'll have to look at it again, my feeling was for that size space and the number of people, we probably could get away with one
bathroom. >> Yeah, >> that seems reasonable. >> Yes. >> Okay, good. And we didn't know and and so I'm gonna I'm going to jump in with a little bit of my conversation. I called Alan Weiss because I was um wanting to you know talk to a sanitary engineer and
and we you know we thought it was a good idea to speak with one and um basically his kind of overriding advice was you know this is going to be a non-conforming use whatever if if you
like put in a bathroom and you're starting to make offices here or use it for other things um you have to deal with the board of health and with the building inspector to understand what their requirements are going to be. um
he he felt that that it might be considered new construction if we did something drastic that and I use new construction broadly um and that if that was in fact
the interpretation that it have implications for building for bringing the building up to building code too which is a whole again that's that >> that seems like it would be impossible >> it would be very very difficult expensive >> and expensive. >> It wasn't where we were. We already
discuss discarded that. >> Yeah. So, but if we are driven to it by virtue of the bathroom, we need to understand that if that's and that's what he was saying. Stephen, go ahead. >> Um, well, my memory is that when I spoke
with uh Jim Hawkins, he said that unless you're doing kind of a gut of the interior, >> then you don't have to bring it up to code. So I think if we were to just say put in a functioning bathroom in the existing
space that would allow [clears throat] us to just do that and maybe some other minor improvements like insulation, weather stripping, stuff like that, but >> to gut that space. Yeah, I I think I
don't know if there's some dollar threshold or what, you know, in terms of your [clears throat] specifications, what constitutes a gut versus a a a rehab, you know, a sort of moderate rehabilitation. My concern has been with the police
department and we did meet with the chief um is they have specific things that they need in order to have and there's this whole certification process that um with the the post commission
which was the big police oversight um commission which was appointed a few years ago um that that there's discussion going on with amongst the police chiefs and police departments and
with post about what certification because it's certifica it's not only certification about police officers it's certification about space now he thinks that there'll be a um
relief for communities like under 2500 that there's some population threshold that will maybe exempt us from but minimal Um things like the creating a um an evidence room. Um having the the
bathroom having a um booking a booking space as a booking or you know we a separate room for when you bring if you've arrested somebody you bring them in and and it has to >> private entrance
>> a private it's yeah the entrance part but it has to be private within the police station itself like right now they they take people to Sunderland or to Belchuretown to to do bookings. So, you know, ideally that would all be, you
know, in um in town um and in in whatever space it's designated for the police. Um the the only other thing that I just want to mention that Allan said because I when I
was posing this to him, he said, you know, obviously you have an issue with water and sewer. You have a very small site. You're on the town common. you know, your your public water supply has to be separate from your um you know,
distance. I I can't what the distance is from the any kind of a a septic. Um and and then I just said to him, you know, that it had been contemplated in the past, I think way back when they were looking at using this beer building um
for the new library um that could you run um water and sewer underneath um which I guess that's Kyville Road there, Kulieville Road over to town hall. And um and he said, you know, your two big
issues with doing that are um complexity of the system because a pumping system, if you have sewer and you're you're pumping um stuff across the street um and then the adequacy of our existing
system here to absorb, you know, say another bathroom. Um and he said it would be easy to do water But um doing any kind of septic uh seems much more complicated, expensive.
>> Doing any kind of meaning connecting to >> connecting to the Yes. Connecting to the septic. Um but and I told him that what we had talked about is um and and I I profess I know nothing about other than my own septic system, [laughter] you
know, tight tanks and sort of all of that. Um, you know, we were starting to kind of go there, but we thought, let's let's talk to Cat. Um, and then, you know, Allan Allen is a um is a
consulting sanitary engineer. He does all kinds of test, septic systems, the whole thing. >> Person I would have asked these questions. >> Good. Um, he's available. we would have to pay him. But, um, you know, if we get to the point where we're really trying
to focus in on, um, some alternatives and some costs, I think it would be worth our while to invest in a few hours of his time. Um, and so anyway, I >> Right. And you and if you're going to do
anything really, you're going to have to have an engineer doing the application and then the specs and stuff. So you'll need him or or someone else, >> right? So, um, so he said, uh, um, you
know, again, the the approvals and the and the permitting, um, for getting a bathroom in there are not not straightforward. It's not as simple because because again of the
site. So, do you guys I'll stop there. Do you guys have questions or any other Did I miss anything for Kai? But I did ask Cat to bring in the septic and water uh or the septic picture for
that's already on the Oh, perfect. >> Right. I don't know if you've talked about trying to hook into the ones that the church is using, both the well and the septic. We haven't. Um but is that is that an option? >> We haven't. So, you're coming in knowing that I'm looking at it, but I'm only
looking at it because I talked to Russ and we haven't had the discussion of what I learned from Russ. Russ Girk Russ Yeah. who lives next door to town hall. Um, no we haven't. So, so the well, the story with the well is the well um was
just kind of re reconnected. Um, I don't know a lot about it other than it does it does have pest. So, they have a filter there. Um, it was a shallow line. Wasn't a super deep line which I think is a you know is a concern. And I don't know if
they insulated I don't Brandon I'm not sure if you have any information about that. um if they did any you know additional installation. >> Who did the work on the well? >> Um the well on town >> the town plus there was there was a
>> talking about >> Yeah. Who did the who? Yeah. On the comment. Do you know the company that >> they >> So there was no well driller involved? No. No. It didn't go any deeper. And my understanding it's a shallow well. The
septic system I believe is on the east side of the um >> Yeah, we've got a we've got a picture of it here. >> Oh, okay. >> You you should too. >> Oh, okay. Great. Thank you. >> Um so assessing the the quantity of water
in that well. Um the quality's been just >> assessing the quantity of water in the shallow well. We have a shallow well where we live. It's not necessarily the end of the discussion how shallow the well is. So we can find out its capacity. Can find out if it's had a history of ever [snorts] drying out.
>> We can also um ask a well driller to assess the possibility of deepening that well >> since it's already there. It's not as complicated as it might be if we're starting fresh. >> Right. Okay. >> So there's some options for that and assessing the systems um is part of it.
And then >> can I interrupt you for one second? And I just want to point out that Julie Taylor's well is 600 ft deep. So yeah. So it's >> is it bedrock? Is she have is we were wondering if there was >> I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
>> I don't remember, but I do remember that her well was 600 ft. Okay. >> I can find out more about that by getting the >> the um well driller's log. Oh, >> which I have upstairs. And we we speak in terms of septic and well in the same
analysis, but they actually can have two different solutions. We might choose to use the water from here and the septic up there. Um, and when I talked to Russ, the septic is going to be coming downhill and there's also pump systems
that grind and then pump it. And so, um, as far as bringing the septic here, if what's up there is inadequate, we could think about that. Um, >> so there's lots of decision, lots of analysis and decision ahead that will help us make the best choices. But I
guess the other question we had, um, Cat was the if we went to a tight tank up there, what's the process for figuring that out? Size and where and stuff like that. Tide tanks are generally I mean there isn't a there isn't a specific
requirement like a certain size for a certain use. Tight tanks come in 2,000 or 3,000galon um units and it kind of depends on what fits there more than the use. And you know if it's smaller you just have to
have it pumped out more frequently. I don't know if in the space underneath the uh the composting toilet if there might be room for a tight tank there. Normally, they're underground, but in a sheltered situation like that, it might
be possible to uh to fit one in right there. >> So, we'd have to figure out the size of a 2,000galon tight tank. >> That's where Allen comes in. >> Yes, he knows all that. Mhm. Um, in terms of permitting issues from the
board of health perspective, >> we're all yours. I mean, want to see it see it put to use and we want to see a bathroom in there and we can be as flexible as the law allows and maybe more. >> Okay. All right. Good. That was sort of Alan's question. you know, he just said,
"Is it your sense that the board of health, you know, would be willing to entertain um >> any variances that are lawful, we will be happy to grant." >> Okay. >> Okay. Great.
>> Okay. The one thing obviously that we would not grant a variance for is or we can't grant a variance for is the setback between a well and a septic system. It's it's nominally 100 ft between a well and the nearest component
of a septic conventional septic system. We can vary that up to or down to 50 ft but no less than that. I think that the setback between a well and a tight tank is less. It might be as little as 25 ft.
>> Okay. Okay. Um, is the is the water is the water in a municipal building considered a public water supply? Do you >> not necessarily this case? It would not be. The the threshold for that is you
expect 25 people per day for at least 25 days. >> Okay. >> Out of the year. >> Okay. >> People per day. So I would expect it to be not a public water supply which would mean it would be under our jurisdiction
and not okay. >> Great. Um so if that's the case it seems to me um maybe what the next steps would be is to first
ascertain I mean we have the we have the design for the um for the church um >> right I don't deal with the water >> yeah I don't have um an asbuilt So, I can't be 100% positive that this is the
this is the design as it is as it really is underground. >> What's interesting to me is this is written as a permit to the Shootsberry Church and as far as there are legal things that help define that space in the church. I don't know if this means
it's their tank, it's their system. >> It it would be their system, but it's on town land. legal. We we need to find out >> Yeah. >> what the legal um possibilities are when they own the system and it's on our land. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, that's a legal question. >> Um >> so, it's their system, our land. >> Also dated 1986, >> right? So, >> there been an upgrade since then?
>> Not that I know of. This is the uh I had two in my files. I had two um septic system permits for them. One was like 1973 and I don't know if that one was even built or well was does it say it's a repair? >> Yes. So that one would have been built.
This one is a repair in 1986. up at the on the top line there under applicate then it tells >> and in in potentially making any changes to it for instance adding another bathroom does it then have to be brought
up to current title five code would it would it like this system is now 20 30 40 years old six is 40 years old >> well let's see they have they're calling five gallons per person
per day, which is reasonable for the kind of you see. They get 750 gallons daily flow. Um, it's a good size tank. Um, I don't see why it wouldn't meet code
now. Okay. >> Okay. >> The 1500gallon tank, it's crucial because that's the standard now. >> Oh, okay. So, that was a big tank for just the church. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, they could have put in a thousand-gallon tank at that time, but they didn't.
>> Okay. >> And the Leechfield area is sufficient. >> Uh, it's sufficient to accommodate 750 gallons a day for sure. >> Um, I mean, that's what basically this is. Oh, there's some other stuff here.
So, can we know which test pit they used? I guess we can't, but um there is some stuff here about the depth to groundwater which are at
>> or >> the ones they've counted are 58 56 inches. So, that's groundwater. So that's the that's the approximate level of well that they're using.
>> Can you give me that number again? I was >> there. It's about six feet. >> Six feet. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um
is the quality of the water any kind of permitting issue or not? if I mean we were tapping in we knew it had pest does that become a >> as long as it's being filtered out it's not a problem okay >> um before
basically when you build a new building um we can't sign off on the building permit application until there is on-site portable water um this is a little different but I'm
assuming you're going have to have a building permit application and we should apply the same standard even though it's not a new building. >> Okay. >> And the church just went through this testing so that they have >> Yes. >> portable water. >> Yes. Yeah. Yep.
>> Um >> right. We would probably ask for one more test after the connection was made just to make sure that there wasn't any kind of crosscontamination, but presumably um the water is good. And we could also put a filter in. >> Yes.
>> Right. Right. >> But there won't be drink. People aren't going to drink the water there. It's it's washing hands and >> Yeah. >> using a toilet. So, [clears throat] but make sure it's >> provide bottled water. >> Bottled water. That's what the church does. They have bottled water. >> Oh, interesting. Okay.
>> And we gave it to them before we got PAS filter um before it could get installed because they needed to deal with. So, um, >> so that's interesting. The town dealt with the well,
and it's, so this is talking about a septic system. It says it's the church, but the well, does it h do you know how that's written up legally? >> No, it's here we are. >> Stay tuned at all, you know. >> Yeah, stay tuned. We there was quite a
bit of research that was undertaken and still in discussion because of this you know we had this long history with the church and then kind of who's responsibility because it's on the town
common and so anyway that's um Donna's um looking at it already so we had you know additional questions um for If you if you share a well or a septic system with
another party, that's perfectly acceptable to the board of health, but there there is a you know legal paperwork that we don't do. It has that has to do with the you know the dividing of ownership and responsibility for maintenance and so on, >> right? >> But it's perfectly doable from our point
of view. >> Okay. [clears throat] I would imagine that it would work to the church's advantage if we were sharing it because they, you know, wouldn't be wholly responsible. >> I think it's um again, we're in this
kind of weird gray separation of church and state area um with the septic system and and the well. So um I think that again, Donna's already looking at that. So um
uh so we can talk some more. We can we can talk with her about that. Um so this is all good news. I you know knowing that um that you guys are willing to work with
us totally. you just in terms of um next steps, would you recommend that I mean we first we would do the research just you know get some more basics about the um any other information we feel like we
need to get from the church about the the well and the current septic system like everything that they know um including the asbuilt on the septic system >> if they have it I'll be absolutely astonished
Okay. Um, and it may be that um that this is >> you have it >> would the build the Frank and Harry buildings >> they're not necessarily >> uh let me think. I'm not sure. I'm really not sure
our research then from >> Yeah, I'm not sure we're going to be able to to find it. But Allan, maybe Allan has some. If we engage him, he would have some. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure that what he would want to do at a minimum is kind of go
out and sink a few holes and just see if those things are actually where they they are here and maybe take some measurements and make sure this is accurate. This is this is a filio plan, so I would not be I would not give it my 100%
confidence. Okay. >> Um >> and he's dead. [laughter] >> Um [clears throat] Okay. You know, so the issues with the church are both um whether they want to
cooperate with us. So that you know, that would be sort of the first question saying we're investigating this. Talk to Donna about the legal implications. And then Allan about is it realistic to
given what he can figure out about the existing septic system and what we know about the well that we could tap into theirs. >> It certainly seems to me I mean I'm no expert on it really but it certainly seems to me that at least tapping into their septic system would be a real
possibility. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Well, I'm not so sure. >> Okay. And which which house of Julie's is down 600 feet because either house is there. >> Um well [laughter] I am not sure but I will find that stuff
>> okay >> for you. >> Okay. >> And I'll I'll send it to you. >> Okay. >> Um okay. So um let me just see if there was anything else you know while we have you here
that Alan mentioned. Um, be sure to send him this if you engage him because this will be really useful. >> Okay. >> Um, I I think I mentioned everything that he you know I just had written down for um
to tell you guys what you know his his resume was but but Kath gave it the seal of approval. Um he has done work in uh Shootsberry before. >> He's done a lot of private work in Shootsberry. So, we've known him all this time, these 30 odd years, and I have a lot of confidence in him.
>> Yeah. >> Um, what do you guys think about >> um engaging him? You need to come up with kind of a a scope for him and engaging
him. Um, it costs $130 an hour to do consulting. Um, I go to the finance committee, you know, I think in a, as I said, in a few few hours of work, I don't know, maybe we ask for $1,000 or
something that it's that it's money well spent in saying what we can potentially do there. Does that >> I think we have a discussion what we need to go to next. Yeah. And I don't I
don't know if we have any more for cat. We don't know what it t we're going to look towards. >> Okay, Stephen. >> Um, Katherine, do you know how uh far below the surface if you bury a tight tank it has to be?
>> Uh, no. There are buoyancy calculations that have to do with the weight over the tank and it has to do with the size of the the size of the tank and the distance to groundwater and all that stuff. That's something that Allan can
tell you. Um they are not I don't want to say that. No, I don't know. >> But you did think it could be inside the building. >> Well, I think that it's a possibility to find out. I really, right? Maybe we Yeah, you would ask him options.
>> Yeah, basically underneath the building. >> I just uh Googled uh Titank size and there's more than one option, but the one that I have here is it's 126 in long. So that's uh what 11 feet,
[clears throat] but it's 126 in by 98 in by 51 in. So, say 4t plus wide and um what do we got? Eight 8t tall. That's And then
[clears throat] 11 feet long. Um >> is that what capacity is that? 2,00 >> that was 2,000. >> Okay. That's big. >> That's big. That's deep. >> That's it. Is very deep. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It would not it would not fit in that space without >> No, that sounds clear.
>> Yeah. Even if even if you dug it out some under, I I think you could do it. Yeah. Okay. [clears throat] >> So that the that just that size alone makes it questionable about
where you could put a tight tank there. >> Yeah. >> Going down 8 feet in Shootsbury is no easy feat >> where Right. >> And we're like unless you're blast. >> That's where all the tight tanks are. >> Yeah. And I' I've heard that that there's a lot of people think there's a
lot of ledge up in that, you know, at the top of the hill. Yeah. Makes some sense. >> Do you know if he would have any history to know that about the um substrate ledges? And would Allan have any place way to know that?
>> Uh I don't know if he would have any specific way to know that. There is um a soil conservation service um uh booklet that basically maps all
the all the soil in town. I might even have one. Okay. Great copy upstairs. If I do, I'll leave it I'll leave it for you. If not, Alan has it and he's probably got it pretty much memorized. [laughter] >> This is reference to Alan Weiss. >> Alan Weiss.
>> Yes. Yes. I was wondering Al Warner Geologist. >> Al yeah Al knows an awful lot about the water and he does know a lot about the geology consult to him. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good suggestion. Yep. I think his name came
up before. I know you have to lead. So um else that I can tell you in the next 15 seconds. >> Any other quick questions for Cat? >> No, that's really helpful. Thank you so much for um coming in. Okay, stay tuned.
>> Yes, this one if you want. You got it. >> Okay. Yes, feel free to >> Yeah. ask for anything else. >> Okay, great. Appreciate it. So, Alborne is geology and um so in terms of sequence
uh do you let's see we we talked about um consultation with town council around some of the the legal issues. Um he talked about um contacting the church
just to do just to broach the subject of um you know is this something that they would consider. And then the second part for the church is what kind of information do they have either as built
plans or you know how much um research how much data do they have on the well itself. And then thirdly, and you know, stop me or add here, um that we engage that that
we come up with a scope for um Alan Weiss to help us re take this information that we have and kind of narrow down um what the possibilities might be for
foc. the water and set it. >> I think there's one step in between that which is um so I talked to Russ Wilson um because he had moved buildings and I wanted to know what that process was. >> Oh, great. Because we did talk about that. >> His suggestion was that we would um
focus on exploring the water source in the septic um from the church because that would be the simplest, most straightforward. Um he also said that um the
the water system would um need to figure out they have a pressure tank for their well and whether you tie into that or have your own pressure tank. Um look into drilling. He said trenching to the town hall is not a big deal um
>> for water >> for whatever and that septic is all going downhill. So that's not an issue um in his mind. Um so the two options of using the systems from the church or trenching across town hall are all far
more less expensive than moving the building. We talked about whether or not we could move the building behind town hall here where we already have this the >> because when I had [laughter] when I had my conversation with him, the first thing was listing all the possible
places in town that had existing systems that we could tie into. And so that's when we got on to what the church had and then we could say that um was probably the um the most cost-effective
possibility, right? But in his um knowledge of building um if the church systems didn't work out, which we're again looking them as two separate systems, >> either system not working out for us
there, trenching to town hall would be inconvenient for a short time, but not expensive. Um not >> Alan Weiss disagrees. >> Not as expensive. [laughter] Alan Weiss said it's going to be expensive and it's complex and once you start dealing with
pumps, you're dealing with regular maintenance. You're dealing with problems that are underneath potentially underneath road if you run into issues. He just said the more the further you go um the more complex. >> Yeah. So we can tell that you know in
priorities the straightest forward with least complications would be tying in to the common the systems on the common >> we're creating our own let's say let's say we thought we could do a you know a tight tank there right
>> um and we could but we could use their well or and drill deeper well so >> or vice versa. mind. So, how does that what does that add, Susie though, to the to the sequence? If if we do we do the legal with Donna, we
do the church except for both on the if on the common is the focus. >> Yeah, >> you could do a tight tank and drilled well >> or you could use one of the two systems available or both the systems available. So, it's
>> I don't want to get to the solutions yet because I think we need to have somebody with the expertise here and I think that's Allan to tell us. I think what what we need to have is we need to have the the the as much research as much
information as we can give him so that then he can then >> but wouldn't we be saying to him these are our priorities for the path yeah >> and the and the and we as a group need to come to an understanding if our priority for the path is to keep it on
the common then on the common these are some of the options I'm not trying to solve it but I am trying to sort of um head for focus. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yep. Yeah. I think that's what we've talked about. So um so
>> quick comment. >> Yeah. Go ahead, Steve. >> Um remember that the old town hall used to uh get its water from that well that's on the town common. >> Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I I I think um
given that we just did some work on the well, we're going to have, you know, we could get some pretty good information on on that, but it's the the septic piece of this that's the tricky part. But I like that approach um of let's
let's say our our first priority would be keeping it on the common and um and then we can step through what that would mean with somebody like Alan Weiss as as uh you
know Cat said he's he's the best person. He's familiar with Shootsberry and he does this kind of stuff all the time. Um >> well actually to me that the next step if we say on the common is we have to make sure that we're clear of legal uh
issues and the church and the church is in agreement. I mean >> that's what I said. I said the first thing is we we talk about legal we talk to the church and then we talked to Ellen Weiss after that. That was the sequence. >> Um so uh who who has a relationship with
the church? Anybody here? >> No. Um, so, uh, Veronica Victor is there. >> Yeah. >> Chris Chris there >> that that is part of town. I I know
Melissa's been um up there some, but I don't believe I'm not sure that she would feel she has a relationship. >> Yeah. And it might be too much of a conflict, you know, with her. >> Could be a meeting with the pastor. >> Yeah. meeting with the pastor >> meeting with us.
>> I I do we bring him in here or does somebody approach him first and then invite him? >> I mean he would he would have to probably consult with some of I don't I don't know that hierarch I don't know how >> that's his polity he would have to consult with the congregation.
>> Right. Right. So >> but he needs to hear what what >> but he might not be the decision maker. Right. But I think maybe we bring him here because this is a town pro process and project. >> Okay. So,
>> so some background. >> So, what if we invited him um to come to our next meeting if he's I don't know what his daytime schedule is his his weekday schedule's like. Um, I can talk
to Donna um and start to try to put together a list of questions. I would say if if you have questions that you think um we need to get resolved with
legal counsel, if you could submit them to Brennan and then we'll put together um just uh in terms of what's on the burner right now because of the wellwork does that have to get a little more clarified
before we enter another piece? >> No, it's in process. So, it's really part it's related to this, >> right? Okay. So, yeah, you're gonna talk with Donna and then we'll talk. >> Yeah. If you have questions though that
you want to feed to Brennan, he can put it together and then so that she she's prepared like you know she has what I would contemplate is just having a a quick um summary of like what we're doing what we're thinking about and then
here are the here are the >> so here are the landmines. So the kinds of questions that you're asking us to think about are um what's the history of the well water use and no >> not for Donna it is if we were to could
we go into some what would an agreement look like for a municipality to share a septic system or a well with the church and the fact that it's located on the town common. How does that
how does that affect our um any agreement that we have or our ability to do it? It's just >> Well, that's kind of the only question, isn't it? Yeah. >> And that's what you're going to talk to her. Yeah. >> About that we have a piece that >> All right. I was just giving you the
option. [laughter] >> Um Okay. I will deal with Donna. Um who will invite the pastor to come to the church? I think it would I mean to come to here. [laughter] We're not going to go to church. Um uh I
think it would be good is is somebody willing to do >> I'll do that. I I go there for my visual and they see me they know. >> Okay. And would you um Susie if there's like a quick paragraph or something that you could give him so it's not coming in here whole. >> Yeah. >> Um because he might want to bring
somebody with him. He might want to bring Chris Footed and that's absolutely fine. >> Right. Um and um and then as far as then taking the next step, Alan Weiss said to me he's around until the last week in
January that he's going to be out of town for two or three weeks. Um do we want to try to talk to him before the end of January or do you know now we're you know we keep pushing ourselves
out here. I'm gone from the I'm gone sort of the same time he is the end of January to midFebruary. Um what's your pleasure Stephen? You have >> um well I'm I'm gone from um midFebruary
to mid-Marchch. >> Okay. All right. We're going to stagger our times away. Um that's going to be true. We're not [clears throat] going to have everybody here. Right. And I don't >> Paul too remember Paul goes but he he could Paul can I think he zoom in. >> Yeah.
>> So it'll be the the committee size will be what it is. I guess the first um I don't think I think we need to figure out whether the church what kind of working we can do with the church before we talk to Allan. So So I don't and I
don't think we can do that before um he leaves at the end of January. So, >> so let's um let's plan on um what have we been meeting every two weeks? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> 22nd, did you say? >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, let's meet on January 22nd and um >> and I'll offer him that. I'll invite him to that. And if he can't make that time, we might need to be flexible. Right. We'll try to make it stay on Thursday. >> Um >> same time. >> Yeah. We want to try for 10:30 on
Thursday. I'll make that the invitation. Um, but I think >> we could do it a little bit earlier because there are no classes in January, right, Stephen? >> There no classes. We could do it earlier than 10:30 if need be. >> When you say no classes,
>> no Kathy isn't teaching >> in January. >> That is correct. >> Yeah. So, I'll ask him any time between what should I say? 10 >> 9:30 >> 9:30 >> 10 >> to sometime into the afternoon. Those
are the possibilities. And we'll see if he can do 10:30 on Thursday. That would be best. >> All right. >> And he's invited to bring anybody and I'll give him a shot of a picture of what >> Okay. >> We're talking about town project. >> Okay. And then I'm just going to follow up with Alan and tell him stay tuned.
We're doing bunch of research and we'll probably I I think what I'd like to do is if depending upon what we find out in the 22nd, you know, and uh as we're doing our research is think about um a
scope at that point after we've gathered information to say, okay, what what would we use a um a sanitation engineer for? What what do we what do we need to know? Sort of technical stuff. And we and we um would like to try to get
Donna's response before the 22nd. >> Yes. >> Yes. I will get in touch with her this. >> Yep. >> I I can talk to El Warner. >> Oh, talk to El Warner, too. Yeah, that would be great. Um >> straight to >> Yeah. Yeah. Just about the geology stuff
again. Do we want him to come too? >> Think that the meeting with the church is not going to be a decisive one. it's going to be floating the idea. So, we are not um I mean we could always get information for him and he just wouldn't
be tied to the Mark Ellis part, but um >> I think it might be useful if he's willing to come on the 22nd too if he's around. Yeah, why not? >> We'll figure out how to do that. >> Yeah, >> timing. I don't want to get too tech I
don't think the church is going to be prepared to get too technical as Susie says. you know that's and this is just a kind had a broad brush with them but um I think it would be good for to have Al some
more the marrier [laughter] you know for people who really who know about the know about shoots. Okay, good. So I think we have an agenda for the 22nd. Um, and anything else
that >> I think I might check with Dennis Clark to see if he has any histories with any projects >> up here. I um Brennan, do you know if Dennis Clark was involved in the town well project there?
>> No, I don't think. Oh, so it was just the plumbing >> and the town the town was >> equipment. So they have some exposure to what digging was like and what so >> yeah they didn't have to go far. They they were just dealing with the pipe
that was underneath the road. >> Yeah, >> that was I think it was broken. >> The road in front of >> in front of the church. Yeah. Right. Because the truck there are so many trucks that are on that. >> Okay. >> Um >> Susie. >> Yes. Um, do [clears throat] you know if
Russ uh house or Henry's house has a basement? >> Yes, they do. >> So, so they did some digging, >> right? >> Yeah. And so I think that that booklet that Cat talked about might help us
because it does vary wildly. Um, it can change very quickly. So, yeah, I'll I'll find out what his experience is. and she said that that Allan if she doesn't have it Allen would have it. Right. The soil conservation stuff, >> right?
>> Okay. Um yeah, if you could find out Susie if anybody else um has that because that would be and maybe Alan Werner El Warernner has it >> has >> has like from the soil conservation service like knowing the the mapping of
the >> um >> you know what the geology is in town. >> You would be a good one to ask. >> Y >> okay sound good? Sound like a plan? >> Yeah.
>> All right. Well, thank you all for um coming. Feel better, Stephen? [laughter] >> I mean, I don't feel terrible, but I don't feel like I'm >> 100% firing off cylinders. >> I think I'm going to wear a mask on Saturday. [laughter]
>> Oh, you guys are both Yeah. Yeah. Risky out there. >> Yeah, it is. Lot of respiratory stuff going around. So, okay. Do I hear a motion to adjurnn? >> Move to adjourn. >> Okay. Is there a second? Second. Second. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I
>> Great. Thanks again everybody. >> Excuse me. Brandon. >> Yeah. >> Could you save all the handouts from today for me and I'll pick them up at some point? >> Yeah. Either that or I can um scan them
to you via email. >> You've already got them printed out, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just put it in a box. Just hang hang on to them and I'll I'll pick them up from you when I'm up in town. >> And we'll call these Paul Lions's copy.
>> Yes. And and same for getting stuff. >> Can you scan it and send it to Paul? >> You doing okay? >> Doing good. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm about a month out now. >> They said six weeks. And you know that's
the average all better day.